Here’s the new leader of the GOP presidential race, enthusiastically promoting the idea of a personal responsibility to buy health insurance in 2005 — a radioactive position in today’s Tea Party GOP.
Youtube Video1 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:08:51am |
He also did a global warming ad with Pelosi too but Newt like Romney will shift with the wind. He's just a douche too.
| 2 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:09:12am |
Wait...now he's a flip flopper and a serial abandoner?
| 5 |
Alexzander Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:12:27am |
The GOP is so fucked.
The primary reason not to support Romney is his creation of Romneycare. I still think Perry could swing out in front once again.
| 6 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:13:15am |
re: #5 Alexzander
The GOP is so fucked.
The primary reason not to support Romney is his creation of Romneycare. I still think Perry could swing out in front once again.
If Newt can come back, it's possible.
| 7 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:13:18am |
re: #5 Alexzander
The GOP is so fucked.
The primary reason not to support Romney is his creation of Romneycare. I still think Perry could swing out in front once again.
Except for the whole talking thing.
| 9 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:13:55am |
he'll just do the typical wingnut dodge by fabricating some rhetorical distinction between what he endorsed and the reality of health insurance reform
on the other hand, i don't think the freepers like him that much...
| 10 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:14:23am |
| 11 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:15:26am |
Ohkay, now I see why the far-right thinks of him as liberal.
| 12 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:16:32am |
re: #8 Varek Raith
ANYONE BUT ROMNEY
mitt is in harmony with the base here since he's already come out against himself
| 13 |
wilburs Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:17:14am |
Only in today's GOP could a candidate like Romney not be able to run on the his one single achievement in politics (even if he had little to do with it).
He should be shouting from the rooftops that MA has the best health care of any state in the union.
| 15 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:18:53am |
re: #14 albusteve
ya just can't trust anybody these days
Yeah. Newt seemed like a such a stand up guy, one you could depend on. What happened?
| 16 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:19:36am |
re: #13 wilburs
Only in today's GOP could a candidate like Romney not be able to run on the his one single achievement in politics (even if he had little to do with it).
He should be shouting from the rooftops that MA has the best health care of any state in the union.
I have a friend, a liberal one at that who campaigned for him in Massachusetts when he ran for governor because of what he then stood for. Romney's desperate. He wants the base to think he's "real conservative" even if it means running away from everything he once stood for and believed.
| 17 |
darthstar Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:19:36am |
re: #8 Varek Raith
ANYONE BUT ROMNEY
You know...after a while, that would start to wear on me...I'd be wondering if it was worth my effort to run at all.
| 18 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:20:15am |
re: #17 darthstar
You know...after a while, that would start to wear on me...I'd be wondering if it was worth my effort to run at all.
Like maybe the Republicans deserve what they are asking for?
| 19 |
wilburs Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:21:05am |
re: #16 HappyWarrior
I have a friend, a liberal one at that who campaigned for him in Massachusetts when he ran for governor because of what he then stood for. Romney's desperate. He wants the base to think he's "real conservative" even if it means running away from everything he once stood for and believed.
I'm embarrassed to say that I actually voted for him for governor.
| 20 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:22:21am |
re: #15 EmmmieG
Yeah. Newt seemed like a such a stand up guy, one you could depend on. What happened?
he's the consummate candidate....he's been in a slump and needs a win, so he's throwing spitballs now
| 21 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:22:23am |
re: #5 Alexzander
The GOP is so fucked.
The primary reason not to support Romney is his creation of Romneycare. I still think Perry could swing out in front once again.
Just keep the maple syrup away!
| 22 |
bratwurst Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:23:12am |
re: #19 wilburs
I'm embarrassed to say that I actually voted for him for governor.
Hey, if he still held the positions he did when he was running for governor, I might be supporting him for president!
| 23 |
wilburs Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:24:15am |
re: #22 bratwurst
Hey, if he still held the positions he did when he was running for governor, I might be supporting him for president!
I like his wife a lot, I wish she would run.
| 24 |
Atlas Fails Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:25:20am |
re: #22 bratwurst
Hey, if he still held the positions he did when he was running for governor, I might be supporting him for president!
Me too...then again, maybe not.
| 25 |
darthstar Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:25:21am |
| 26 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:28:42am |
re: #24 Atlas Fails
Me too...then again, maybe not.
right, just another elitist player...ho hum
hardship to Romney, is like vast wealth to albusteve
| 27 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:31:35am |
There's a new study on climate sensitivity that's getting quite a bit of attention in the "skeptical" blogosphere.
Here's an interview with one of the authors:
[Link: newscience.planet3.org...]
Here's an interesting excerpt:
Q: Any other thoughts on the skeptics’ reception of your paper?
One blog did surprise me. World Climate Report doctored our paper’s main figure when reporting on our study. This manipulated version of our figure was copied widely on other blogs. They deleted the data and legends for the land and ocean estimates of climate sensitivity, and presented only our combined land+ocean curve:
[THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE HAS A MANIPULATED GRAPH HERE]
Upper: World Climate Report’s manipulated image removing the Land and Ocean data.
Lower: The actual figure as it appears in Science, with the Land and Ocean curves included.
They did note that their figure was “adapted from” ours, and linked to our paper containing the real figure. On the other hand, Pat Michaels duplicated this doctored version of our figure again in an article at Forbes, and didn’t mention at all that it had been altered. (A side note with respect to the Forbes article: Science didn’t “throw a tantrum” about posting our manuscript on the web. They never contacted us about that. I took it down myself as a precaution, due to the journal’s embargo policy.)
I find this data manipulation problematic. When I created the real version of that figure, it occurred to me that it would be reproduced in articles, presentations, or blog posts. Because I find the difference between our land and ocean estimates to be such an important caveat to our work, I made sure to include all three curves in the figure, so that anyone reproducing it would have to acknowledge these caveats. I didn’t anticipate that anyone would simple edit the figure to remove our caveats. I can’t say why they deleted those curves. If you were to ask them, I’d guess they’d say it was to “clarify” the figure by focusing attention on the main result we reported.
Regardless of their intent, I find the result of their figure manipulation to be very misleading, especially since their blog post strongly implies that our study eliminates the “fat right tail” of the climate sensitivity distribution, and has proven the IPCC’s climate sensitivity range to be incorrect. Our land temperature curve, which they deleted, undermines their implication. They intentionally took our figure out of the context in which it was originally presented, a form of “selective quotation” which hides data that does not support their interpretation.
In summary, I find World Climate Report’s behavior very disappointing and hardly compatible with true skeptical inquiry. I can only imagine how they would respond if they found a climate scientist intentionally deleting data from a figure, especially if they deleted data that undermined the point of view they were presenting.
Tribalism among "skeptics?" Data manipulation among skeptics?
Never seen that before.
| 28 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:33:46am |
re: #27 Talking Point Detective
They're deniers, not skeptics. If I ever used this noble word in relation to them (even in quotes), I think I will always just call them deniers now.
| 29 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:37:38am |
re: #28 Sergey Romanov
They're deniers, not skeptics. If I ever used this noble word in relation to them (even in quotes), I think I will always just call them deniers now.
whatever you call them, they seem to hold the high ground of popular opinion now...how to move forward is beyond me
| 30 |
palomino Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:38:12am |
Of course he supported it back then. It was the product of gop "idea men" like himself and Bob Dole. Moreover, Obama hadn't yet taken a position on it, so it was the safe thing to do. One thing we'll be finding out about Newt is that he's flip flopped nearly as much as Romney; it's just that these reversals are usually overshadowed by his reckless excess as a politician and human being.
If the gop nominates him, they'll lose either way. Either he'll lose despite Obama's vulnerabilities, due to his baggage and reckless rhetoric and general unlikability. Or if he wins, he'll further polarize an already dysfunctional DC.
| 31 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:40:19am |
re: #6 HappyWarrior
If Newt can come back, it's possible.
It is possible...
Poll: Gingrich would pick up Cain supporters
Newt Gingrich stands to benefit if Herman Cain were to withdraw or lose support in the Republican presidential race, according to a Public Policy Poll released on Tuesday.
Gingrich has a much better favorability rating with Cain supporters than does Mitt Romney. Seventy-three percent of Cain supporters view Gingrich favorably, while only 33 percent have a favorable view of Romney.
Gingrich is also the consensus second choice among Cain voters, with 37 percent saying Gingrich would be their back-up to Cain, compared to 14 percent for Michele Bachmann, 13 percent for Romney, and 12 percent for Rick Perry.
| 32 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:42:02am |
re: #30 palomino
Of course he supported it back then. It was the product of gop "idea men" like himself and Bob Dole. Moreover, Obama hadn't yet taken a position on it, so it was the safe thing to do. One thing we'll be finding out about Newt is that he's flip flopped nearly as much as Romney; it's just that these reversals are usually overshadowed by his reckless excess as a politician and human being.
If the gop nominates him, they'll lose either way. Either he'll lose despite Obama's vulnerabilities, due to his baggage and reckless rhetoric and general unlikability. Or if he wins, he'll further polarize an already dysfunctional DC.
one thing's for sure, no matter who wins the election, I won't be happy
| 33 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:42:44am |
re: #29 albusteve
whatever you call them, they seem to hold the high ground of popular opinion now...how to move forward is beyond me
A smartly aggressive outreach. Though how to get financing and a megaphone for that is beyond me.
| 34 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:43:51am |
re: #33 Sergey Romanov
A smartly aggressive outreach. Though how to get financing and a megaphone for that is beyond me.
I think it will evolve into a security issue...I can't think of another angle
| 35 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:46:00am |
re: #5 Alexzander
The GOP is so fucked.
The primary reason not to support Romney is his creation of Romneycare. I still think Perry could swing out in front once again.
I would never have thought Gingrich could get in this race, so anything is possible. However Perry is polling in the single digits in Iowa, mired in 6th place. If I was to speculate as to which wingnut might have a resurgence in Iowa, I would guess that Bachmann would be the best bet.
| 36 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:48:44am |
re: #35 aagcobb
I would never have thought Gingrich could get in this race, so anything is possible. However Perry is polling in the single digits in Iowa, mired in 6th place. If I was to speculate as to which wingnut might have a resurgence in Iowa, I would guess that Bachmann would be the best bet.
She does have a good relationship with the Evangelical community which as I recall played a role in Huckabee's win there in 2008.
| 37 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:51:32am |
re: #35 aagcobb
I would never have thought Gingrich could get in this race, so anything is possible. However Perry is polling in the single digits in Iowa, mired in 6th place. If I was to speculate as to which wingnut might have a resurgence in Iowa, I would guess that Bachmann would be the best bet.
I could not believe my eyes when BO dosposed of the Clinton machine and went on to win it...since the, I've said anything is possible....all this micro scrutiny and speculation is rather mundane...voters are notoriously fickle and lazy....imo if BO can get elected, then so can Bachman...god help us
| 38 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:52:10am |
In addition, let's not forget Newt praising the 'Greatest of the Caliphates' of Islam back in 2007 either, also a radioactive position in today's GOP.
| 39 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:52:43am |
for the record...
I prefer the antiChrist over Bachmann
| 40 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Nov 29, 2011 11:57:00am |
re: #28 Sergey Romanov
They're deniers, not skeptics. If I ever used this noble word in relation to them (even in quotes), I think I will always just call them deniers now.
I get that....
But being naturally predisposed to skepticism, I'm reluctant to overuse the term "denier" - not that I doubt that deniers exist in the climate debate.
On top of that, as a logistical consideration, I think that the uncertainty about just who is a "denier" and who is a skeptic has been exploited by deniers for political advantage - so in my own small way, I use "skeptic" in quotes.
| 41 |
jvic Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:01:44pm |
If I understood Gingrich correctly around the 6:30 mark of that video, his proposal offers an alternative to individuals: buy insurance, or post a bond so society doesn't pick up the tab should you get sick. The bond would have to cover major care and accordingly would be substantial.
| 42 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:04:36pm |
re: #8 Varek Raith
ANYONE BUT ROMNEY
the thing is, romney is the only chance the gop has at the presidency next year
imagine how supremely fucked the gop would be if somehow he folded or wasn't nominated... wow...
| 43 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:05:41pm |
re: #37 albusteve
I could not believe my eyes when BO dosposed of the Clinton machine and went on to win it...since the, I've said anything is possible...all this micro scrutiny and speculation is rather mundane...voters are notoriously fickle and lazy...imo if BO can get elected, then so can Bachman...god help us
Yes, I recall that the good word for a while was that no one could beat a Clinton, because they had the sekrit mind control lasers.
| 44 |
Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:06:16pm |
re: #37 albusteve
I could not believe my eyes when BO dosposed of the Clinton machine and went on to win it...since the, I've said anything is possible...all this micro scrutiny and speculation is rather mundane...voters are notoriously fickle and lazy...imo if BO can get elected, then so can Bachman...god help us
Obama got elected because he has intelligence and passion. He inspires. Has he always delivered? No, but he represents something that people responded to. His heart in the right place. So many marginally intelligent people run for office, that when someone intelligent, educated, and passionate runs people respond.
| 45 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:06:59pm |
re: #39 albusteve
for the record...
I prefer the antiChrist over Bachmann
Understandable. Nicolae Carpathia is quite well-spoken, and educated.
| 46 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:07:23pm |
re: #44 Iwouldprefernotto
Obama got elected because he has intelligence and passion. He inspires. Has he always delivered? No, but he represents something that people responded to. His heart in the right place. So many marginally intelligent people run for office, that when someone intelligent, educated, and passionate runs people respond.
It also helped his cause that a lot of people were motivated in keeping Sarah Palin from standing a heartbeat away from the presidency...
| 47 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:07:24pm |
re: #42 engineer dog
the thing is, romney is the only chance the gop has at the presidency next year
imagine how supremely fucked the gop would be if somehow he folded or wasn't nominated... wow...
he would make an average president...all he has to do is drive the bus...imo it makes little difference who's president beyond a short list of raving lunatics
| 48 |
Interesting Times Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:07:43pm |
re: #40 Talking Point Detective
But being naturally predisposed to skepticism, I'm reluctant to overuse the term "denier" - not that I doubt that deniers exist in the climate debate.
Personally, this kind of over-cautious approach is what allowed the deniers to hold the advantage for so long. Don't forget the "pro-wrestling" aspect of American PR, where whoever seems the "toughest" and most "bad-ass" is perceived as "the winner".
You are right that that "liberals" can never get away with lying the way the right does (MSNBC may sloppily get things wrong from time to time, but no way on Earth could they ever equal the willful mendacity of Fox, Limbaugh etc), but they can and must fight back and defend themselves in the most forceful manner possible (and yes, non-violent resistance can be "forceful" as well, i.e. you were tough enough to stand your ground/risk arrest while your opponents had to resort to coward-bully excessive force)
| 49 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:09:02pm |
re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist
Understandable. Nicolae Carpathia is quite well-spoken, and educated.
they say he digs the Stones too...a twofer
| 50 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:12:43pm |
re: #47 albusteve
he would make an average president...all he has to do is drive the bus...imo it makes little difference who's president beyond a short list of raving lunatics
maybe, but imagine what would happen if somehow romney was not nominated next year - how utterly screwed the gop would be then
| 51 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:13:02pm |
re: #44 Iwouldprefernotto
Obama got elected because he has intelligence and passion. He inspires. Has he always delivered? No, but he represents something that people responded to. His heart in the right place. So many marginally intelligent people run for office, that when someone intelligent, educated, and passionate runs people respond.
highly questionable....perception is not reality
| 52 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:14:00pm |
re: #37 albusteve
I could not believe my eyes when BO dosposed of the Clinton machine and went on to win it...since the, I've said anything is possible...all this micro scrutiny and speculation is rather mundane...voters are notoriously fickle and lazy...imo if BO can get elected, then so can Bachman...god help us
I refuse to believe that someone as insane as Bachmann clearly is could actually be elected President. Even if Europe pulls us down into a Great Depression, I don't believe Bachmann could win the general election.
| 53 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:14:55pm |
re: #50 engineer dog
maybe, but imagine what would happen if somehow romney was not nominated next year - how utterly screwed the gop would be then
it would be nice if we could all look over at the GOP and say...where did they go?, they were just here....they seem to have beamed away, lock stock and barrel!
| 54 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:16:04pm |
re: #52 aagcobb
I refuse to believe that someone as insane as Bachmann clearly is could actually be elected President. Even if Europe pulls us down into a Great Depression, I don't believe Bachmann could win the general election.
I don't either really...but we might be wrong, eh?
| 55 |
Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:16:51pm |
re: #51 albusteve
highly questionable...perception is not reality
Is your argument that Obama is not intelligent? If so, who do you think is?
| 56 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:17:14pm |
re: #55 Iwouldprefernotto
Is your argument that Obama is not intelligent? If so, who do you think is?
you
| 57 |
allegro Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:17:36pm |
re: #51 albusteve
highly questionable...perception is not reality
I'm perceiving that you refuse to recognize the reality of Obama's very impressive life accomplishments that required great intelligence and passion to be successful.
| 58 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:18:53pm |
re: #57 allegro
I'm perceiving that you refuse to recognize the reality of Obama's very impressive life accomplishments that required great intelligence and passion to be successful.
correct...you should hear my story...I made pizza pie out of horseshit
| 59 |
Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:20:53pm |
re: #58 albusteve
correct...you should hear my story...I made pizza pie out of horseshit
That puts you on top of all the Republican candidates.
| 60 |
jvic Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:20:58pm |
re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, I recall that the good word for a while was that no one could beat a Clinton, because they had the sekrit mind control lasers.
My recollection is that Hillary lost because of her complacency. Iirc the "inevitable nominee" did not have a Plan B in case she did not wrap up things up in the early primaries. My impression was that she clearly took Obama's measure when she finally bestirred herself, but it was too little too late.
"Who enters the consistory primaries as a Pope, leaves as a cardinal."
| 61 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:22:37pm |
| 62 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:24:29pm |
Gingrich has commanding leads in the polls in Iowa and S.C., and he is rapidly gaining on Romney in NH since the Union Leader endorsed him. Newt might have the nomination wrapped up by the third week of January.
| 63 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:25:54pm |
re: #62 aagcobb
Gingrich has commanding leads in the polls in Iowa and S.C., and he is rapidly gaining on Romney in NH since the Union Leader endorsed him. Newt might have the nomination wrapped up by the third week of January.
the intangible...he wants it more than the others, makes him dangerous
| 64 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:28:15pm |
Anonymous and TeaMp0isoN’s ‘Operation Robin Hood’ Aims to Hit Banks
The new operation aims to take money from credit cards and give it to “the people.” It seems that they will take the money by hacking accounts, which the banks will then have to refund because of rules governing fraudulent purchases.
This seems rather ill-advised since it will require credit card holders to deal with the banks to recover the funds. And rooting around in personal financial accounts is never a good thing.
PoisAnon, however, seems to think it will be quite simple.
“We are going to make the banks deliver your money back to you with a smile on their faces and hate in their heart,” reads a portion of the group’s message.
An accompanying video quite humorously features scenes from Kevin Costner’s unforgettable performance as Robin Hood. Take a look below.
| 65 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:28:24pm |
You know How many times has that happened, the Dems compromise and take a GOP position, and the Reps freak out and hate their own idea.
Cap'n'trade, individual mandate, civil rights...
| 66 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:29:25pm |
re: #24 Atlas Fails
Me too...then again, maybe not.
Well, I don't know the validity of anything on the linked page, but you should be aware that MassResistance is a rabid, ultra-radical, anti-gay and anti-trans organization who are going after Romney because they feel he didn't do enough to stop marriage equality and other similar things. They're one of the most openly bigoted and hateful groups around and I really wouldn't use them as a source for anything.
I honestly sorta feel dirty for even opening their website.
| 67 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:31:35pm |
re: #66 Simply Sarah
Well, I don't know the validity of anything on the linked page, but you should be aware that MassResistance is a rabid, ultra-radical, anti-gay and anti-trans organization who are going after Romney because they feel he didn't do enough to stop marriage equality and other similar things. They're one of the most openly bigoted and hateful groups around and I really wouldn't use them as a source for anything.
so basically they're Fred Phelps: The Lobbyist Group
| 68 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:31:54pm |
re: #62 aagcobb
Gingrich has commanding leads in the polls in Iowa and S.C., and he is rapidly gaining on Romney in NH since the Union Leader endorsed him. Newt might have the nomination wrapped up by the third week of January.
i can't make myself believe that the gop could be dumb enough to nominate newt
(synchronistically, i just heard barney frank say that on msnbc)
my prediction is the the polls, like last time, are garbage and that romney will roll it up in six weeks
| 69 |
Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:32:13pm |
re: #62 aagcobb
Gingrich has commanding leads in the polls in Iowa and S.C., and he is rapidly gaining on Romney in NH since the Union Leader endorsed him. Newt might have the nomination wrapped up by the third week of January.
I may have a date with a supermodel by Valentine's Day.
| 70 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:32:39pm |
| 71 |
Interesting Times Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:33:58pm |
Is it logistically too late (e.g. filing deadlines etc) for another candidate to jump in the GOP race?
| 72 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:34:04pm |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
Ever wanted to type like a hacker on TV?:
[Link: hackertyper.com...]
[Link: hackertyper.net...]
| 73 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:34:13pm |
WUB: if you're up, print out the ticket for me, I'll come over and give you moneys
| 74 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:35:01pm |
re: #71 publicityStunted
Is it logistically too late (e.g. filing deadlines etc) for another candidate to jump in the GOP race?
I'm unavailable, sorry
| 75 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:35:14pm |
re: #60 jvic
My recollection is that Hillary lost because of her complacency. Iirc the "inevitable nominee" did not have a Plan B in case she did not wrap up things up in the early primaries.
Yes. This. The much vaunted Clinton machine was stuck in the 1990's. They simply did not leverage the internet and social media the same way that Obama's younger, more tech-savvy campaign did.
Obama's campaign was out there for over a year before the primaries building ground organizations of young, enthusiastic volunteers in all 50 states. They got coordinated early, got people excited, and got them knocking on doors and networking while he was still under the radar.
Clinton, on the other hand, was riding on her name and position as the default nominee. Her campaign targeted the traditional line-up of states that previous campaigns had and ignored the rest. They simply banked on her name recognition and the primary system to win the nomination for her. They didn't take advantage of the technology that exists or of the new media landscape, and they didn't understand that the rules of the game had changed.
| 76 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:35:37pm |
re: #67 WindUpBird
so basically they're Fred Phelps: The Lobbyist Group
Well, the lobby group part means that in many ways they're much worse. Almost everyone that has heard of him despises Phelps (At least since he started going after military funerals instead of just those of gays) and basically ignores what he's saying. MassResistance actually has the ear of people that matter.
| 77 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:36:15pm |
re: #71 publicityStunted
It's always possible for a candidate that didn't run at all to come out of the convention, altho not terribly likely.
(or at least it used to be possible, maybe it changed :p)
| 78 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:37:14pm |
re: #75 Lidane
funny thing is, clinton's strategy probably would have worked if she were Republican (excepting the fact that they probably wouldn't vote for a woman)
| 79 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:37:26pm |
re: #73 windsagio
WUB: if you're up, print out the ticket for me, I'll come over and give you moneys
already printed
| 80 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:37:42pm |
re: #71 publicityStunted
Is it logistically too late (e.g. filing deadlines etc) for another candidate to jump in the GOP race?
I believe filing deadlines, at least for many of the early states, have passed. It would also be extremely difficult, from a logistical standpoint, to try and start up anything resembling a competitive campaign at this point in the game.
| 81 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:37:46pm |
re: #76 Simply Sarah
Well, the lobby group part means that in many ways they're much worse. Almost everyone that has heard of him despises Phelps (At least since he started going after military funerals instead of just those of gays) and basically ignores what he's saying. MassResistance actually has the ear of people that matter.
Also, their name makes you think they're a left-wing group.
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:38:14pm |
re: #67 WindUpBird
so basically they're Fred Phelps: The Lobbyist Group
The Phelps wouldn't lobby for anything, because he hates everything.
He hates gays, but he also hates straight people. He hates transgendered people and cisgendered people. If there's something Phelps has a positive statement on, I have yet to hear it.
And I'm still recovering from a TV piece about the WBC I saw a few nights ago that included footage of a little girl, like, toddler sized, singing a parody of 'We are the World' that goes "God hates the world..."
Every Christian I've mentioned this to has brought up John 3:16, which is why Fred Phelps hates them too. And also John.
| 83 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:38:15pm |
re: #78 windsagio
funny thing is, clinton's strategy probably would have worked if she were Republican (excepting the fact that they probably wouldn't vote for a woman)
the Won was unstoppable...ordained as it were
lol
| 84 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:38:20pm |
Judge Rakoff strikes again!
NY judge rejects $285M SEC-Citigroup agreement
NEW YORK (AP) -- A judge on Monday used unusually harsh language to strike down a $285 million settlement between Citigroup and the Securities and Exchange Commission over toxic mortgage securities, saying he couldn't tell whether the deal was fair and criticizing regulators for shielding the public from details of the firm's wrongdoing.
U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff said the public has a right to know what happens in cases that touch on "the transparency of financial markets whose gyrations have so depressed our economy and debilitated our lives." In such cases, the SEC has a responsibility to ensure that the truth emerges, he wrote.
Rakoff said he had spent hours trying to assess the settlement but concluded that he had not been given "any proven or admitted facts upon which to exercise even a modest degree of independent judgment."
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]
previously: [Link: www.rollingstone.com...]
| 85 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:39:00pm |
You can't underestimate how Obama got young people involved. I'll say this much about the guy. He or his team at least understands younger voters better than most candidates. Clinton just seemed like the usual. And yes I think the Clinton campaign was run as a sense of entitlement that she was somehow entitled the nomination because of who her husband is. That turned me off even if I like her work as Secretary of State.
| 86 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:39:24pm |
re: #84 000G
so how long before the banksters just have him removed for actually standing up to them, heh
| 88 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:40:19pm |
I found out that my daughter's brother-in-law is leaving for Israel on Sunday which gives me a couple of days to buy some presents for the grandkids.
I know my granddaughter would just love the Fisher Price dollhouse, but that's kinda pushing it to ask somebody to pack in his luggage, I think I'll buy her a cute sweater instead.
| 89 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:40:57pm |
re: #86 WindUpBird
so how long before the banksters just have him removed for actually standing up to them, heh
I dunno, but I like stuff like this:
He called the settlement "neither fair, nor reasonable, nor adequate, nor in the public interest."
Red meat for a red 000G.
| 91 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:41:20pm |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
whenever somebody says 'cisgendered' a baby gets hit in the face with a rocket glove.
| 92 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:41:41pm |
re: #85 HappyWarrior
You can't underestimate how Obama got young people involved. I'll say this much about the guy. He understands younger voters better than most candidates. Clinton just seemed like the usual. And yes I think the Clinton campaign was run as a sense of entitlement that she was somehow entitled the nomination because of who her husband is. That turned me off even if I like her work as Secretary of State.
kids love a good hook....it's only rock and roll
| 93 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:41:49pm |
re: #81 Alouette
Also, their name makes you think they're a left-wing group.
Yes, normally that's the sort of thing you'd expect to have already been taken by some radical left-wing organization. But nope, it's just Mass. and Resistance (To marriage equality and to treating anyone that's not a cis heterosexual like a human).
| 94 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:42:55pm |
re: #91 windsagio
whenever somebody says 'cisgendered' a baby gets hit in the face with a rocket glove.
Hey, it's a new word to me, and I find it hilariously entertaining, because it reminds me of Cisalpine Gaul.
Also useful.
Baby's gonna hafta cope.
| 95 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:43:14pm |
re: #91 windsagio
whenever somebody says 'cisgendered' a baby gets hit in the face with a rocket glove.
Huh?
| 96 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:43:43pm |
re: #85 HappyWarrior
You can't underestimate how Obama got young people involved. I'll say this much about the guy. He or his team at least understands younger voters better than most candidates.
The bottom line is that Obama's campaign understood that things have changed since the 1990's. Obama's campaign understood that, and they knew how to leverage the new media landscape.
It's why he raised an insane amount of money just from small donors and why he was able to reject federal matching funds. He ran the first truly internet-savvy campaign.
| 97 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:43:43pm |
re: #93 Simply Sarah
What is cis? That's the first time I have heard the term (except when it was used to refer to the states of the former Soviet Union)
| 99 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:44:02pm |
re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist
I found a visual aid!
Just imagine the giant robot there looks like this.
| 100 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:44:05pm |
re: #90 WindUpBird
hell yeah :D
More awesome stuff from that article:
This wasn't the first time that the judge struck down an SEC settlement with a bank, and Rakoff has made no secret of his disdain for settlements between the government agency and banks for paltry sums and no admission of guilt.
"The SEC's longstanding policy - hallowed by history, but not by reason - of allowing defendants to enter into consent judgments without admitting or denying the underlying allegations, deprives the court of even the most minimal assurance that the substantial injunctive relief it is being asked to impose has any basis in fact," he wrote in Monday's decision.
Adam Pritchard, a professor of securities law at the University of Michigan Law School, said courts could become clogged with cases that would normally be settled if other judges adopt Rakoff's reasoning and deprive companies of their incentive to avoid trial.
He called it a powerful SEC tool to encourage settlements "and Judge Rakoff is taking that away from them."
The SEC's consent judgment settling the case was filed the same day as its lawsuit against Citigroup, the judge noted.
"It is harder to discern from the limited information before the court what the SEC is getting from this settlement other than a quick headline," the judge wrote.
"In much of the world, propaganda reigns, and truth is confined to secretive, fearful whispers," Rakoff said. "Even in our nation, apologists for suppressing or obscuring the truth may always be found. But the SEC, of all agencies, has a duty, inherent in its statutory mission, to see that the truth emerges; and if it fails to do so, this court must not, in the name of deference or convenience, grant judicial enforcement to the agency's contrivances."
| 101 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:44:18pm |
re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist
Hey, it's a new word to me, and I find it hilariously entertaining, because it reminds me of Cisalpine Gaul.
Also useful.
Baby's gonna hafta cope.
Also, 'cislunar orbit'.
| 102 |
Petero1818 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:44:18pm |
He was against it before he was for it before he was against it.
| 103 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:45:03pm |
re: #96 Lidane
The bottom line is that Obama's campaign understood that things have changed since the 1990's. Obama's campaign understood that, and they knew how to leverage the new media landscape.
It's why he raised an insane amount of money just from small donors and why he was able to reject federal matching funds. He ran the first truly internet-savvy campaign.
Yeah, he understood technology very well. Sort of like Dean in 04 a little but he was a better candidate and better president than Dean would be.
| 104 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:45:36pm |
Any conservative who was not just some kind of an idiot reactionary should have been at least grudgingly proud of Obama's victory: a person from completley non-priveleged background who made his way up through determination and hard work, the very embodiment of the American Dream that they like to remind us is available to all Americans who try hard enough.
Instead we get a party that is perfectly at home with birthers.
| 105 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:45:52pm |
re: #96 Lidane
The bottom line is that Obama's campaign understood that things have changed since the 1990's. Obama's campaign understood that, and they knew how to leverage the new media landscape.
It's why he raised an insane amount of money just from small donors and why he was able to reject federal matching funds. He ran the first truly internet-savvy campaign.
cool!...now what?
campaigning is not governing...
half his own party considers him a flop...if you'd like to explain BO's greatness I'd be entertained fersure
| 106 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:46:07pm |
re: #97 Alouette
it means on the same side as, basically.
So like Transalpine gaul was on the other side of the alps from Rome, Cisalpine gaul was on the same side.
It's also used a lot in chemistry, which is what I always think of (ala trans fats)
trans bond: Image: trans%20double%20bond.png
cis bond:
Image: 200px-Cis_bond.svg.png
| 107 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:46:25pm |
re: #97 Alouette
What is cis? That's the first time I have heard the term (except when it was used to refer to the states of the former Soviet Union)
In Latin prefix terms, the opposite of 'trans-'--'this side' as opposed to 'across from'.
The Romans divided Gaul into Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. "Gaul on this side of the Alps" and "Gaul on the other side of the Alps".
| 108 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:46:41pm |
re: #97 Alouette
What is cis? That's the first time I have heard the term (except when it was used to refer to the states of the former Soviet Union)
It's used to refer, in a nutshell, to non-trans people/those who identify with their assigned birth gender. It comes from the Latin cis- prefix meaning to be on the same side, contrasted with the Latin trans- meaning on the opposite side or across.
| 110 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:47:21pm |
re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist
In Latin prefix terms, the opposite of 'trans-'--'this side' as opposed to 'across from'.
The Romans divided Gaul in to Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. "Gaul on this side of the Alps" and "Gaul on the other side of the Alps".
And God Alps those that Alps themselves!
| 112 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:47:54pm |
As in "The other side of them there woods", as in Transylvania
| 113 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:48:20pm |
re: #109 ralphieboy
And the Cisco Kid? Was there a Transco Kid?
The Transco Kid wasn't a friend of mine.
| 114 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:49:02pm |
so if you're playing MVC, and it's like, nothing but Magneto and Viewtiful Joe on all sides, you'd have to refer to cisMagneto versus TransViewtiful Joe
| 115 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:49:08pm |
re: #108 Simply Sarah
It's used to refer, in a nutshell, to non-trans people/those who identify with their assigned birth gender. It comes from the Latin cis- prefix meaning to be on the same side, contrasted with the Latin trans- meaning on the opposite side or across.
Why would there have to be a special term for them?
| 116 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:49:27pm |
re: #104 ralphieboy
Any conservative who was not just some kind of an idiot reactionary should have been at least grudgingly proud of Obama's victory: a person from completley non-priveleged background who made his way up through determination and hard work, the very embodiment of the American Dream that they like to remind us is available to all Americans who try hard enough.
Instead we get a party that is perfectly at home with birthers.
bunch of hokum...wtf is 'non-priveleged'...and his level of determination and hard work is known only to him....you people elevate this guy to reaches of your own design...you make shit up
| 117 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:49:51pm |
to be honest I'm not hugely a fan of the term transgendered either, altho its pretty much the standard now (and believe it or not I can accept reality sometiems :p)
Trans- and Cis- gendered always strikes me as too eager to define yourself and others.
| 118 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:50:18pm |
re: #116 albusteve
bunch of hokum...wtf is 'non-priveleged'...and his level of determination and hard work is known only to him...you people elevate this guy to reaches of your own design...you make shit up
well, he didn't grow up the son of the guy who ran AMC with money coming out his butthole, that's for sure :D
| 119 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:50:22pm |
| 120 |
Petero1818 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:50:39pm |
re: #105 albusteve
cool!...now what?
campaigning is not governing...
half his own party considers him a flop...if you'd like to explain BO's greatness I'd be entertained fersure
I can't explain his greatness, and I am not sure there is one to explain. But what I am fairly certain of is that he is swimming upstream against both sides of the Congressional aisle. I can't remember a time when a President faced such a fractured Congress, as well as dire economic circumstances. As far as the first two years of his Presidency, I don't believe he was strong enough with his own party to be as effective as he could have been. That is why I like second term Presidents. They take far less crap and are usually more effective managers.
| 121 |
jvic Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:51:36pm |
re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist
The Romans divided Gaul in to Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. "Gaul on this side of the Alps" and "Gaul on the other side of the Alps".
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres.
| 122 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:51:52pm |
re: #118 WindUpBird
well, he didn't grow up the son of the guy who ran AMC with money coming out his butthole, that's for sure :D
I heard his dad made a mint off a Pinto dealership...no?
| 123 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:52:19pm |
Poland's Foreign Minister holds a speech in Berlin. Money quotes:
Then came the crunch, headlined "What does Poland ask of Germany?". First came six points Mr Sikorski wanted Germany to acknowledge.
1) it is the biggest beneficiary of the current arrangements and therefore under the biggest obligation to sustain them
2) it is not the "innocent victim of others' profligacy...You, who should have known better, have also broken the Growth and Stability Pact...your banks...recklessly bought risky bonds"
3) the crisis has lowered Germany's borrowing costs
4) if its neighbours' economies implode, it will suffer
5) the danger of collapse is greater than the danger of inflation
6) "your size and your history" mean a "special responsibility to preserve peace and democracy on the continent".
And then:
I demand of Germany that, for your sake and for ours, you help [the euro zone] survive and prosper. You know full well that nobody else can do it. I will probably be the first Polish foreign minister in history to say so, but here it is: I fear German power less than I am beginning to fear German inactivity.
[…]
You may not fail to lead. Not dominate, but to lead in reform. Provided that you include us in decision-making, Poland will support you.
[…]
We are standing on the edge of a precipice. This is the scariest moment of my ministerial life but therefore also the most sublime. Future generations will judge us by what we do, or fail to do. Whether we lay the foundations for decades of greatness, or shirk our responsibility and acquiesce in decline.
wow
[Link: www.economist.com...]
| 124 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:52:45pm |
re: #120 Petero1818
I can't explain his greatness, and I am not sure there is one to explain. But what I am fairly certain of is that he is swimming upstream against both sides of the Congressional aisle. I can't remember a time when a President faced such a fractured Congress, as well as dire economic circumstances. As far as the first two years of his Presidency, I don't believe he was strong enough with his own party to be as effective as he could have been. That is why I like second term Presidents. They take far less crap and are usually more effective managers.
BO is just another guy...get used to it
| 125 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:52:59pm |
re: #115 Alouette
Why would there have to be a special term for them?
Essentially, it's used to make talking about people that aren't trans less awkward and to avoid treating that state as the "default"; with trans people being deviant from that. In other words, it's so trans and cis are both just descriptors of one attribute of a person, rather than just having trans people singled out as "different".
| 126 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:52:59pm |
| 127 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:53:33pm |
re: #116 albusteve
bunch of hokum...wtf is 'non-priveleged'...and his level of determination and hard work is known only to him...you people elevate this guy to reaches of your own design...you make shit up
He was not the scion of a political family like Bush or Gore, he was not the son of an admiral like McCain.
Whatever he made of himself he did on his own. He had the help of his family, but they were not in a position to set him up politically or financially.
That is what I mean. I do not "elevate" him, I am just very proud of a country that can allow people like that to rise to the level of their own achievements.
| 128 |
Digital Display Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:54:05pm |
re: #109 ralphieboy
And the Cisco Kid? Was there a Transco Kid?
I don't know..But he was a friend of mine..
Cisco kid was a friend of mine
If I recall correctly.. I played that song once with some band at a huge party at Wild Valley Ranch in Napa years ago...It's in the key of G and thats all you need to know.. Just play a G on guitar with invention..
I was playing some disco riffs having a great time..
/ Watching Ray for the 20th time.. I'm all into the music this afternoon
| 129 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:54:12pm |
re: #115 Alouette
Why would there have to be a special term for them?
I think because 'woman who has female written on her birth certificate and feels that was correct' is hard to fit felicitously into a sentence.
IIUC, it's something that developed in transgender forums, and has spread in usage from there.
| 130 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:54:29pm |
re: #120 Petero1818
I can't explain his greatness, and I am not sure there is one to explain. But what I am fairly certain of is that he is swimming upstream against both sides of the Congressional aisle. I can't remember a time when a President faced such a fractured Congress, as well as dire economic circumstances. As far as the first two years of his Presidency, I don't believe he was strong enough with his own party to be as effective as he could have been. That is why I like second term Presidents. They take far less crap and are usually more effective managers.
I believe he's faced the most filibusters of any president. Hard to execute your agenda with that. Now, I wish he and the administration had called the Republicans' bluff when they had the 59 Senate Dems but that's fact. Also, whether you like Affordable Act or not, that is an accomplishment. Democratic presidents from FDR to Clinton wanted some form of that and Obama got that done. Is he a great president? Only time will tell. I could care less about his own party's perception of him honest.
| 131 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:54:53pm |
re: #116 albusteve
bunch of hokum...wtf is 'non-priveleged'...and his level of determination and hard work is known only to him...you people elevate this guy to reaches of your own design...you make shit up
What about him rubs you the wrong way? Why do you think he's a ditz, as you've called him many times? Seriously?
| 132 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:55:34pm |
re: #121 jvic
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres.
Yeah, Caesar divides it by the ethnic groups in the region.
| 133 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:55:44pm |
re: #125 Simply Sarah
well thats kind of the problem. Non-transgendered is the default, like it or not. (or more likely the whole gender thing is so blurry that it doesn't even matter)
It's akin to deaf people and autistic people claiming they're 'just wired differently', I've spent my whole life around and working with disabled people, and that kind of ego-salving falshood only hurts people.
| 134 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:56:09pm |
re: #122 albusteve
I heard his dad made a mint off a Pinto dealership...no?
I totally dig these, actually Image: pic.jpg
two door compact wagon!
| 135 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:56:16pm |
taking some guy like BO and elevating him to some crazy super human is exactly what's wrong with our political landscape...AmIdol...makes me want to hurl...people here cry over his speaches
| 137 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:56:37pm |
re: #124 albusteve
BO is just another guy...get used to it
Just another guy who holds a position forty three others have held in 220 years and that number is less when you discount those who assumed office because of presidential death or in Jerry Ford's case resignation. Come on Steve. Getting elected president and even senator is an accomplishment in one's life. Ditto going to Harvard Law like he did and Columbia. I don't agree with him on everything but he's accomplished alot. And I am not even thinking of the racial aspect either which is important. I am not making a superhero or demigod out of the man but he's accomplished.
| 138 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:56:52pm |
re: #135 albusteve
just cut to the chase and start using 'BHO' again, we all know how you feel about the guy anyways, no need to be coy :D
| 139 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:57:15pm |
| 140 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:57:24pm |
re: #117 windsagio
to be honest I'm not hugely a fan of the term transgendered either, altho its pretty much the standard now (and believe it or not I can accept reality sometiems :p)
Trans- and Cis- gendered always strikes me as too eager to define yourself and others.
Well, I see them as being useful in more academic settings, where related topics may come up for actual discussion. Obviously, it's not normally important or proper to identify someone as a trans woman/man or a cis woman/man. That and most people won't even understand what you're talking about.
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
I think because 'woman who has female written on her birth certificate and feels that was correct' is hard to fit felicitously into a sentence.
IIUC, it's something that developed in transgender forums, and has spread in usage from there.
That's a good way of putting it!
| 141 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:57:50pm |
re: #127 ralphieboy
He was not the scion of a political family like Bush or Gore, he was not the son of an admiral like McCain.
Whatever he made of himself he did on his own. He had the help of his family, but they were not in a position to set him up politically or financially.
That is what I mean. I do not "elevate" him, I am just very proud of a country that can allow people like that to rise to the level of their own achievements.
why do you keep comparing him to others?...he's not special as much as fortunate...it's the way it is...imo he hasn't done shit
| 142 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:58:11pm |
re: #135 albusteve
taking some guy like BO and elevating him to some crazy super human is exactly what's wrong with our political landscape...AmIdol...makes me want to hurl...people here cry over his speaches
Enough with the straw men. Nobody's elevating him to crazy super human status. Who the fuck is crying over his speeches?
You're fighting against an image of your own creation.
| 143 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:58:30pm |
re: #131 recusancy
What about him rubs you the wrong way? Why do you think he's a ditz, as you've called him many times? Seriously?
he's a product, manufactured...like a toy
| 144 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:58:52pm |
re: #140 Simply Sarah
Pay me no mind, one of my minor pet peeves is the urge to complete and massive self-definition, complete with new jargon.
I just want people to be happier with themselves without needing to create new categories :p
| 145 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 12:59:20pm |
re: #135 albusteve
taking some guy like BO and elevating him to some crazy super human is exactly what's wrong with our political landscape...AmIdol...makes me want to hurl...people here cry over his speaches
It seemed to be a common polemic apprach during the campaign: showing people who idolized him before demonstrating that he had feet of clay.
Mostly because nothing else seemed to work. The mud did not stick, people seemed to like him.
I do not idolize him or his politics. I am just proud to see him as an example of the American Dream in action.
| 146 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:00:06pm |
| 147 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:00:06pm |
re: #134 WindUpBird
I totally dig these, actually Image: File:FordPintoV6.jpg
two door compact wagon!
no access...bummer
| 148 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:00:45pm |
re: #145 ralphieboy
I gotta admit I think he's pretty great (altho obviously not perfect), and it was a great point of pride to me that my generation was the one that produced our first minority president of any kind :D
| 149 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:00:56pm |
| 150 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:08pm |
re: #138 windsagio
just cut to the chase and start using 'BHO' again, we all know how you feel about the guy anyways, no need to be coy :D
I'm not trying to be coy...what's BHO have to do with anything?
| 151 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:08pm |
| 152 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:08pm |
re: #133 windsagio
well thats kind of the problem. Non-transgendered is the default, like it or not. (or more likely the whole gender thing is so blurry that it doesn't even matter)
It's akin to deaf people and autistic people claiming they're 'just wired differently', I've spent my whole life around and working with disabled people, and that kind of ego-salving falshood only hurts people.
Well, no. It's the norm. Being normal (in the statistical sense) or common doesn't really make something the default or correct. That's a bit like saying being white in America is "the default" (For now) or that having whatever colour hair or eyes is "the default". More common? Perhaps. The default? No.
| 153 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:08pm |
Meanwhile, Newt's Republican fans are talking:
Former GOP Rep. Says Gingrich is ‘an evil person’
Heh.
| 154 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:20pm |
re: #116 albusteve
bunch of hokum...wtf is 'non-priveleged'...and his level of determination and hard work is known only to him...you people elevate this guy to reaches of your own design...you make shit up
It's a fact, Editor of the Harvard Law Review is a prize randomly found in a box of Cracker Jack.
| 155 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:25pm |
re: #141 albusteve
why do you keep comparing him to others?...he's not special as much as fortunate...it's the way it is...imo he hasn't done shit
Getting elected to the Senate and then the Preidency is "not shit"? Which Empire are you the Lord and Master over?
Granted, politicians are manufactured products in our modern system, but there has to be some substance behind them or they melt away like GOP candidates in the primaries...
| 156 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:01:51pm |
re: #151 000G
hm hm hm
what to make of this?
[Link: publicintelligence.net...]
Not surprised at all
The country belongs to the banks
| 157 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:02:30pm |
re: #145 ralphieboy
It seemed to be a common polemic apprach during the campaign: showing people who idolized him before demonstrating that he had feet of clay.
Mostly because nothing else seemed to work. The mud did not stick, people seemed to like him.
I do not idolze him or his politics. I am just proud to see him as an example of the American Dream in action.
The thing is he proved that a non white could be elected president. And that to me is a wonderful thing for reasons that don't need to be said.
| 158 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:02:47pm |
re: #142 recusancy
Enough with the straw men. Nobody's elevating him to crazy super human status. Who the fuck is crying over his speeches?
You're fighting against an image of your own creation.
an unnamed poster was weeping at the speech he gave in AZ after the shooting down there...go look it up
| 159 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:02:53pm |
re: #68 engineer dog
i can't make myself believe that the gop could be dumb enough to nominate newt
(synchronistically, i just heard barney frank say that on msnbc)
my prediction is the the polls, like last time, are garbage and that romney will roll it up in six weeks
I think you are underestimating how little enthusiasm there is for Romney in the GOP.
| 160 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:03:22pm |
re: #156 WindUpBird
Not surprised at all
The country belongs to the banks
Just dunno what to make of that source, is what I meant.
Looks… not very reputable.
| 161 |
bratwurst Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:03:31pm |
re: #153 Lidane
Meanwhile, Newt's Republican fans are talking:
Former GOP Rep. Says Gingrich is ‘an evil person’
Heh.
This guy has more enemies than Batman and Spider-Man put together!
| 162 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:03:31pm |
re: #144 windsagio
Pay me no mind, one of my minor pet peeves is the urge to complete and massive self-definition, complete with new jargon.
I just want people to be happier with themselves without needing to create new categories :p
But it's not a new category. It's just a fairly simple and concise term for a pre-existing category that most people are taught to recognize from a young age and few question.
| 163 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:03:37pm |
re: #152 Simply Sarah
I didn't say 'correct' though.
To be real talk for a minute though, there really is something wrong with truly transgendered people. They're usually intensely miserable before they come to terms with it, and if they're miserable enough that they go for the serious options, they're generally still pretty unhappy and messed up.
| 164 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:03:53pm |
re: #159 aagcobb
I think you are underestimating how little enthusiasm there is for Romney in the GOP.
I'm somewhere in between, i'm beginning to wonder of Newt has a chance
but it does seem way too good to be true :D
| 165 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:04:12pm |
re: #7 garhighway
Except for the whole talking thing.
"How's that whole 'talky-thinky' think workin' out for ya?" *wink*
..... aaaand now I need a shower.
| 166 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:04:13pm |
re: #143 albusteve
he's a product, manufactured...like a toy
Ahh. So anyone with a personal brand is a toy? Who manufactured him? Was he just some schmuck picked from oblivion?
| 167 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:04:14pm |
re: #154 goddamnedfrank
It's a fact, Editor of the Harvard Law Review is a prize randomly found in a box of Cracker Jack.
Shit getting into Harvard Law is an accomplishment in itself. If I had gotten into UVA or William and Mary for undergrad work, I'd count that as an accomplishment and not just see it as "luck." "Luck" is when you find a hundred dollar bill on the ground not the things Obama has accomplished in his life.
| 168 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:04:20pm |
Well, it's sourced with Bloomberg, so I guess it's all good.
| 169 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:04:28pm |
re: #161 bratwurst
This guy has more enemies than Batman and Spider-Man put together!
and more rolls than a suzuki samurai!
*rimshot
| 170 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:05:22pm |
re: #158 albusteve
an unnamed poster was weeping at the speech he gave in AZ after the shooting down there...go look it up
lol... What? unnamed poster? What does that mean? Somebody here? We have usernames.
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:05:23pm |
re: #142 recusancy
Enough with the straw men. Nobody's elevating him to crazy super human status. Who the fuck is crying over his speeches?
You're fighting against an image of your own creation.
For whatever reason, there was/is a strong perception among Obama's opponenents that his supporters see him as a salvational figure--the 'Obamessiah' concept. I don't see it happening myself. Great gladness to have gotten our guy in after eight years of Bush, yes, and excitement about seeing a black president elected, yes, but that's about the extent of it.
Oddly, it's the GOP that's now producing members saying things like "Newt Gingrich is like King David", and pushing the idea that God is sending Republicans to save us.
| 172 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:05:43pm |
re: #149 WindUpBird
I fixed it! Image: pic.jpg
I like it...alot...
re: #154 goddamnedfrank
It's a fact, Editor of the Harvard Law Review is a prize randomly found in a box of Cracker Jack.
big whoop....what did he publish?
| 173 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:06:20pm |
re: #163 windsagio
I didn't say 'correct' though.
To be real talk for a minute though, there really is something wrong with truly transgendered people. They're usually intensely miserable before they come to terms with it, and if they're miserable enough that they go for the serious options, they're generally still pretty unhappy and messed up.
Well, heck, take our society's totally screwed up attitudes about gender roles, add in a bit of the old thinking that sees any abnormality as divine punishment and then top it off with the usual terrorization that kids go through during adolescence, and it is little wonder.
| 174 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:06:37pm |
| 175 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:06:48pm |
Oh, this should be fun:
Jon Huntsman refuses to rule out possibility of independent candidacy for president
| 176 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:06:53pm |
re: #157 HappyWarrior
The thing is he proved that a non white could be elected president. And that to me is a wonderful thing for reasons that don't need to be said.
I will, however, say that some of the credit for that's gotta go to the voters.
| 177 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:03pm |
| 178 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:06pm |
re: #172 albusteve
small wagon-ey things, my favorite
| 179 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:14pm |
re: #166 recusancy
Ahh. So anyone with a personal brand is a toy? Who manufactured him? Was he just some schmuck picked from oblivion?
no...he's a grad of the Chicago machine...you knew that
| 180 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:34pm |
re: #153 Lidane
Meanwhile, Newt's Republican fans are talking:
Former GOP Rep. Says Gingrich is ‘an evil person’
Heh.
Newt's new campaign slogan, "Why vote for the lesser
of two evils?"
| 181 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:36pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
For whatever reason, there was/is a strong perception among Obama's opponenents that his supporters see him as a salvational figure--the 'Obamessiah' concept. I don't see it happening myself. Great gladness to have gotten our guy in after eight years of Bush, yes, and excitement about seeing a black president elected, yes, but that's about the extent of it.
Oddly, it's the GOP that's now producing members saying things like "Newt Gingrich is like King David", and pushing the idea that God is sending Republicans to save us.
Exactly. Perception.
| 182 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:45pm |
re: #151 000G
hm hm hm
what to make of this?
[Link: publicintelligence.net...]
It's nothing, at least it's not what people are trying to make it out to be. All fed loans (especially the short term ones) are not publicly disclosed immediately. It's part of the program. If the knowledge was immediately made public then investors might panic and tank the stock of any bank that goes to the fed for an emergency loan. Banks might even lie on their books to avoid having to get a fed loan to avoid investor panic.
| 183 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:07:58pm |
Oh, last night at karaoke, my friends and I came up with the ultimate ticket:
Paul/Paul 2012!
because only Ron Paul would put his own son in the VP slot :D
| 184 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:08:04pm |
re: #158 albusteve
an unnamed poster was weeping at the speech he gave in AZ after the shooting down there...go look it up
OK, I'll accept that someone--maybe even two someones--may have been crying over one speech he made--after a very emotional event.
You kind of made it sound like bunches of Democratic lizards burst into hysterical tears, like people at a tent revival, every time he says "My fellow Americans".
| 185 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:08:37pm |
You know Steve, I was just reading about Fred Rogers yesterday (don't ask why :p), and the comparison between him and the pose you choose to take is actually really quite amazing.
The guy thought TV was crap and was ruining children, but instead of the easy cynicism he got involved and spent his entirely life trying to make everything (and the media especially) better.
It's the difference between a positive life and a negative one... and the contrast is striking.
(yes I know its not fair to compare people to Mr. Rogers)
| 186 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:08:53pm |
re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist
I will, however, say that some of the credit for that's gotta go to the voters.
We've come a long way. I just wrote an essay on Richard Wright, James Baldwin, and Ralph Ellison. These dudes would be amazed to see Obama as president since they all came of age in Jim Crow.
| 187 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:09:17pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
For whatever reason, there was/is a strong perception among Obama's opponenents that his supporters see him as a salvational figure--the 'Obamessiah' concept. I don't see it happening myself. Great gladness to have gotten our guy in after eight years of Bush, yes, and excitement about seeing a black president elected, yes, but that's about the extent of it.
Oddly, it's the GOP that's now producing members saying things like "Newt Gingrich is like King David", and pushing the idea that God is sending Republicans to save us.
LOL!...it's the new recipe...
it's all so demented...reminds me of the HS Homecoming Queen election...what a farce
| 188 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:09:30pm |
re: #180 aagcobb
Newt's new campaign slogan, "Why vote for the lesser
of two evils?"
He tries that and Cthulhu will haul his happy ass into court. That's been Cthulhu's slogan for a while now.
| 189 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:09:57pm |
re: #188 Lidane
He tries that and Cthulhu will haul his happy ass into court. That's been Cthulhu's slogan for a while now.
Bill/Opus
This time, why not the worst?
| 190 |
Petero1818 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:10:31pm |
re: #124 albusteve
BO is just another guy...get used to it
Not sure what part of my comment leads you to believe I think he is anything other than "just another guy". Though I would point out, that "just another guy" doesn't get to POTUS.
| 191 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:11:03pm |
re: #177 ralphieboy
what have you published?
my book should go on sale next year...
"albusteve...Achieving Greatness!"
$189.95
| 192 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:11:16pm |
re: #163 windsagio
I didn't say 'correct' though.
To be real talk for a minute though, there really is something wrong with truly transgendered people. They're usually intensely miserable before they come to terms with it, and if they're miserable enough that they go for the serious options, they're generally still pretty unhappy and messed up.
Sure, it's not an easy thing to deal with. And for the folks for whom it is easy to deal with--well, I've got my doubts about some of them. There almost seemed to be a fad about ten years ago--young dykes going FTM--and most of them, I wanted to shake and say 'Honey, being butch is not a medical condition'.
But the true, honest-to-God, the wiring-doesn't-match-the-body folks, they have a hell of a time.
| 193 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:11:33pm |
re: #187 albusteve
LOL!...it's the new recipe...
it's all so demented...reminds me of the HS Homecoming Queen election...what a farce
It is also human nature: we don't want to solve our own problems, we want a savior. We don't want to go on a diet, we want a pill or an operation that strips the fat off without effort. We don't want to work on building up a satisfying relationship, we want love to come fall in our lap.
And the ability to exploit that instinct in most people is the driving force behind modern politics
| 194 |
bratwurst Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:12:00pm |
re: #191 albusteve
my book should go on sale next year...
"albusteve...Achieving Greatness!"
$189.95
300 pages of praising the Stones and talking about yourself in the third person!
| 195 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:12:15pm |
re: #163 windsagio
I didn't say 'correct' though.
To be real talk for a minute though, there really is something wrong with truly transgendered people. They're usually intensely miserable before they come to terms with it, and if they're miserable enough that they go for the serious options, they're generally still pretty unhappy and messed up.
There's nothing "wrong" with transsexuals. Or, at least, nothing that cannot be mostly addressed. The gender identity of a trans person is not in line with the gender identity forced on them by society based on genitals, causing massive amounts of stress and trauma. The treatment is allowing them to break free of that forced identity to be closer to how their mind is. This can mean changing names, dressing differently, hormones, certain kinds of surgery, etc. And the end result is relieving the stress.
| 196 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:12:24pm |
re: #191 albusteve
my book should go on sale next year...
"albusteve...Achieving Greatness!"
$189.95
And here I thought you just had it thrust upon you...
| 197 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:12:48pm |
re: #194 bratwurst
300 pages of praising the Stones and talking about yourself in the third person!
Well the Stones are awesome. Steve's 110% right about that.
| 198 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:12:55pm |
re: #182 Killgore Trout
Poor investors and banks, they must be protected from panic generated by people judging their actions with all the security through obscurity we can allow them!
I wonder if the Fed realizing that a lot of the public these days thinks this is bs is the reason for their recent policy change of doing a lot more public relations work (like Bernanke's press conferences).
| 199 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:13:09pm |
re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist
From hanging out with WUBs furry friends I know a LOT of 'not really transgendered' types, and a few for reals-reals. I admit it might make me a bit jaundiced on the subject :p
| 200 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:13:28pm |
re: #178 WindUpBird
small wagon-ey things, my favorite
yeah...I still dig bigger wangony things...
[Link: www.55classicchevy.com...]
| 201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:13:59pm |
re: #174 WindUpBird
[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]
I had to look it up, wow
This appears to be their new way of reconciling with his miserable personal ethics.
David had eight wives concurrently, BTW, including the one he married after murdering her husband, plus whatever Jonathan was to him, and uncounted unnamed concubines, so if they want to run with this, it should cover a multitude of GOP scandal problems.
| 202 |
jvic Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:14:14pm |
re: #148 windsagio
I gotta admit I think he's pretty great (altho obviously not perfect), and it was a great point of pride to me that my generation was the one that produced our first minority president of any kind :D
1. It used to be said, and probably still is in a few places, that Negroes, Catholics and Jews aren't 100% Americans. Jack Kennedy's Catholicity may have been an obstacle comparable to Obama's ethnicity.
2. I don't get too worked up about either case. If society continues to become more open--a big if, I regret to say--, it strikes me as inevitable that at some point a woman, a black, a Hispanic, etc will become President. Demographic changes may yield the same outcomes. Not events to ignore, but not events to get carried away by either.
3. If Gringrich manages to get in, the same kinds of people who opposed the first Catholic President will have elected the second one.
| 203 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:14:38pm |
re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, I'll accept that someone--maybe even two someones--may have been crying over one speech he made--after a very emotional event.
You kind of made it sound like bunches of Democratic lizards burst into hysterical tears, like people at a tent revival, every time he says "My fellow Americans".
that's what they wanted...bow before him type stuff
| 204 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:16:09pm |
re: #159 aagcobb
I think you are underestimating how little enthusiasm there is for Romney in the GOP.
gentleman's bet, amigo?
there seemed to be very little enthusiasm for mccain in the gop four years ago, and also bad poll numbers, but when the voting started, mysteriously he started to win. we should be able to tell by sometime in March...
| 205 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:16:39pm |
re: #198 000G
Poor investors and banks, they must be protected from panic with all the security through obscurity we can allow them!
I wonder if the Fed realizing that a lot of the public these days thinks this is bs is the reason for their recent policy change of doing a lot more public relations work (like Bernanke's press conferences).
It's a practical policy with good reason. It's nothing new and nothing outrageous. The Fed is a weird entity which a lot of people don't understand, makes for a convenient scape goat. There's a lot of serious discussion about fed policies but confidential emergency loans serve a very real purpose.
| 206 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:16:41pm |
re: #199 windsagio
From hanging out with WUBs furry friends I know a LOT of 'not really transgendered' types, and a few for reals-reals. I admit it might make me a bit jaundiced on the subject :p
Unless people are close to me in some way, I tend to just nod and let them define their sexuality in any way they see fit.
Of course, the thing that is currently blowing my mind is the whole otherkin online community thing.
| 207 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:17:18pm |
re: #195 Simply Sarah
Here's the thing, I have some pretty 'not on the officially enforced gender distinctions' traits, a great number actually.
After a number of years trying to figure out what the hell I was I realized that society couldn't force me into anything. It's not like it was 40 years ago.
People with true gender dysphoria have my sympathy its a really fucked up thing to have to deal with. For the other folks, the ones who just don't quite match? I'd say instead of whinging learn that you define yourself as yourself. I was so much happier once I figured that out.
| 208 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:17:28pm |
re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist
Sure, it's not an easy thing to deal with. And for the folks for whom it is easy to deal with--well, I've got my doubts about some of them. There almost seemed to be a fad about ten years ago--young dykes going FTM--and most of them, I wanted to shake and say 'Honey, being butch is not a medical condition'.
But the true, honest-to-God, the wiring-doesn't-match-the-body folks, they have a hell of a time.
Sure, but that's mostly due to society not really understanding or "getting" the concept, rather than any automatic suffering due to being trans. I mean, yeah, it can be a bit more complicated than being gay or whatever, but most harm is done in the same way.
| 209 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:17:55pm |
re: #203 albusteve
that's what they wanted...bow before him type stuff
"They" being the handlers from the Chicago Machine, I take it?
If so, not working too well. They should read the "Left Behind" books. Everyone calls Nicky 'Potentate'.
| 210 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:18:06pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
For whatever reason, there was/is a strong perception among Obama's opponenents that his supporters see him as a salvational figure
Maybe I talk to the wrong people, but I've never heard this from anyone except right-wingers. Right-wingers to whom the idea of requiring private equity funds to pay more than %15 in taxes is the same as Hitler invading Poland.
| 211 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:19:05pm |
re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist
I've met some therianthropes too (that's one of the otherkin self-definitions), those guys are basically massively pretentious furries without the cool DIY culture.
| 212 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:19:15pm |
re: #185 windsagio
You know Steve, I was just reading about Fred Rogers yesterday (don't ask why :p), and the comparison between him and the pose you choose to take is actually really quite amazing.
The guy thought TV was crap and was ruining children, but instead of the easy cynicism he got involved and spent his entirely life trying to make everything (and the media especially) better.
It's the difference between a positive life and a negative one... and the contrast is striking.
(yes I know its not fair to compare people to Mr. Rogers)
this is a blog....does not actually reveal my private self
| 213 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:19:16pm |
re: #208 Simply Sarah
Sure, but that's mostly due to society not really understanding or "getting" the concept, rather than any automatic suffering due to being trans. I mean, yeah, it can be a bit more complicated than being gay or whatever, but most harm is done in the same way.
Suspect that's so...really hard to tell to with these things, given that you can't remove the societal conditioning and look at how people do without it.
| 214 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:19:58pm |
re: #210 negativ
Maybe I talk to the wrong people, but I've never heard this from anyone except right-wingers. Right-wingers to whom the idea of requiring private equity funds to pay more than %15 in taxes is the same as Hitler invading Poland.
Yes, I haven't been able to identify it in the population much myself.
| 215 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:20:58pm |
re: #210 negativ
Maybe I talk to the wrong people, but I've never heard this from anyone except right-wingers. Right-wingers to whom the idea of requiring private equity funds to pay more than %15 in taxes is the same as Hitler invading Poland.
I saw some people who had really high hopes of him but salvational figure not really and I think there is a difference. I saw Obama as a realist. Knew he was sincere when he said he wanted Bin Laden bad. Knew that he would disappoint those liberal supporters who expected him to be all things to them.And that guy is an asshole considering the fact that the Nazi invasion of Poland was first an invasion obviously an secondly that it wiped out the Jewish community that had lived there for generations dating back to the Middle Ages.
| 216 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:21:04pm |
re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist
Suspect that's so...really hard to tell to with these things, given that you can't remove the societal conditioning and look at how people do without it.
Our society is far removed from being able to let people define and live with their own sexuality on their own terms. We are still big on determining and defining gender roles. Remember the outcry about the ad showing a mother painting her son's toenails?
| 217 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:21:11pm |
re: #212 albusteve
I think blogs over time actually reveal MORE of your actual self than how you usually present though. It takes insane discipline and skill to represent as something you're not over a period of years.
What usually comes out on a blog is the id, the person with all the social filters shot to hell.
| 218 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:22:30pm |
re: #217 windsagio
I think blogs over time actually reveal MORE of your actual self than how you usually present though. It takes insane discipline and skill to represent as something you're not over a period of years.
What usually comes out on a blog is the id, the person with all the social filters shot to hell.
Some people use the Internet to reveal photos of their private selves... or at least the juciest parts thereof...
| 219 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:22:34pm |
re: #207 windsagio
Here's the thing, I have some pretty 'not on the officially enforced gender distinctions' traits, a great number actually.
After a number of years trying to figure out what the hell I was I realized that society couldn't force me into anything. It's not like it was 40 years ago.
People with true gender dysphoria have my sympathy its a really fucked up thing to have to deal with. For the other folks, the ones who just don't quite match? I'd say instead of whinging learn that you define yourself as yourself. I was so much happier once I figured that out.
Well, it's not really about "matching". Gender roles assigned by society are different than an internal sense of self. You can have extremely 'feminine' FTMs, extremely 'masculine' MTFs, extremely 'feminine' cis men, and extremely 'masculine' cis women. Much like gender identity and sexual orientation, how you fit gender roles isn't really related to gender identity outside of people perhaps trying to fit the former to the latter in hopes of fitting in better.
| 220 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:22:35pm |
re: #217 windsagio
I think blogs over time actually reveal MORE of your actual self than how you usually present though. It takes insane discipline and skill to represent as something you're not over a period of years.
What usually comes out on a blog is the id, the person with all the social filters shot to hell.
Step away from the keyboard.
:P
| 221 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:22:58pm |
re: #216 ralphieboy
thats my thing, you can only control how you feel about yourself.
... but its a pretty big and difficult bridge to jump.
(funnily the main reason I don't go in for crossdressing more is that I don't look nearly as good as I'd want to, so even in the rare opportunities I still have I don't do it. I look a lot more acceptable in male clothes :p)
| 222 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:23:21pm |
re: #205 Killgore Trout
It's a practical policy with good reason. It's nothing new and nothing outrageous. The Fed is a weird entity which a lot of people don't understand, makes for a convenient scape goat. There's a lot of serious discussion about fed policies but confidential emergency loans serve a very real purpose.
Some serious discussion, from the Bloomberg article:
“I believe that the Fed should have independence in conducting highly technical monetary policy, but when they are putting taxpayer resources at risk, we need transparency and accountability,” says Alabama Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee.
[…]
It would have been “totally appropriate” to disclose the lending data by mid-2009, says David Jones, a former economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York who has written four books about the central bank.
“The Fed is the second-most-important appointed body in the U.S., next to the Supreme Court, and we’re dealing with a democracy,” Jones says. “Our representatives in Congress deserve to have this kind of information so they can oversee the Fed.”
[…]
Lawmakers knew none of this.
[…]
Had lawmakers known, it “could have changed the whole approach to reform legislation,” says Ted Kaufman, a former Democratic Senator from Delaware who, with Brown, introduced the bill to limit bank size.
[…]
If Congress had been aware of the extent of the Fed rescue, Kaufman says, he would have been able to line up more support for breaking up the biggest banks.
Byron L. Dorgan, a former Democratic senator from North Dakota, says the knowledge might have helped pass legislation to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, which for most of the last century separated customer deposits from the riskier practices of investment banking.
“Had people known about the hundreds of billions in loans to the biggest financial institutions, they would have demanded Congress take much more courageous actions to stop the practices that caused this near financial collapse,” says Dorgan, who retired in January.
| 223 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:24:17pm |
re: #217 windsagio
I think blogs over time actually reveal MORE of your actual self than how you usually present though. It takes insane discipline and skill to represent as something you're not over a period of years.
What usually comes out on a blog is the id, the person with all the social filters shot to hell.
yes I know that about you....blogs are the new reality for your generation, you can actually read minds via posts, or want to...hail the new Freudians!
| 224 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:24:30pm |
re: #221 windsagio
thats my thing, you can only control how you feel about yourself.
... but its a pretty big and difficult bridge to jump.
(funnily the main reason I don't go in for crossdressing more is that I don't look nearly as good as I'd want to, so even in the rare opportunities I still have I don't do it. I look a lot more acceptable in male clothes :p)
Although it is considered male clothing in some parts of the world, it still took a large leap for me to appear in public in a kilt...
| 225 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:25:02pm |
re: #219 Simply Sarah
I'd say gender identity is almost entirely how you fit or don't fit into those accepted gender roles :p
Again, barring the tiny minority who feel lost in their bodies (as compared to society), that does happen, and its a nightmare.
| 226 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:25:08pm |
re: #223 albusteve
yes I know that about you...blogs are the new reality for your generation, you can actually read minds via posts, or want to...hail the new Freudians!
You're thinking about beer.
Or cars.
Maybe football.
That'll be 2500 bucks.
| 227 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:25:35pm |
re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist
Suspect that's so...really hard to tell to with these things, given that you can't remove the societal conditioning and look at how people do without it.
Well, considering the vast majority of transitioned transsexuals report being vastly happier and having a much greater sense of well-being, plus the fact that I know some children being allowed to transition at very young ages and seemingly doing rather well, I'd say most of the issues arise from much of society just not handling it well, since it appears outcomes are good when the proper steps are taken.
| 228 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:25:41pm |
re: #223 albusteve
it doesn't take a psychic to read you man.
| 229 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:26:02pm |
re: #222 000G
The Tea Party, which supports a more limited role for government, has its roots in anger over the Wall Street bailouts, says Neil M. Barofsky, former TARP special inspector general and a Bloomberg Television contributing editor.
“The lack of transparency is not just frustrating; it really blocked accountability,” Barofsky says. “When people don’t know the details, they fill in the blanks. They believe in conspiracies.”
Blaming the scapegoat for the scapegoating, I guess you could say.
At the heart of this stands the fact that the Fed is a central bank but not a national bank.
| 230 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:26:15pm |
re: #226 Varek Raith
You're thinking about beer.
Or cars.
Maybe football.
That'll be 2500 bucks.
I'm exposed....my pseudo intellect gig failed...darn
| 231 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:26:23pm |
actually in my 2 main hobbies right now (fighting games and internetting), reading folks is the most important skill of all.
| 232 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:26:44pm |
re: #204 engineer dog
gentleman's bet, amigo?
there seemed to be very little enthusiasm for mccain in the gop four years ago, and also bad poll numbers, but when the voting started, mysteriously he started to win. we should be able to tell by sometime in March...
You got it; I'm willing to bet that Romney will not be the GOP nominee for President. So what are the stakes?
| 233 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:27:05pm |
re: #212 albusteve
this is a blog...does not actually reveal my private self
So this is a manufactured Steve on display, here in the comments, day after day for years? What a toy.
| 234 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:27:24pm |
re: #228 windsagio
it doesn't take a psychic to read you man.
why should it?...I just post, you're the mind reader....you should be worth millions by now...I envy such ability
| 235 |
windsagio Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:27:30pm |
anyways, I need to get off my ass and do my errands, later y'all :D
(omw to your place WUBbie)
| 236 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:28:39pm |
I was widely considered gay in high school, mostly because I did not care for cars or sports and did not have a girlfriend (which had nothing to do with any lack of interest in females, just my total social ineptitude).
Funny thing is, a lot of the people I hung out in high school and college (the quirky, creative artistic types) later came out of the closet.
I went on to marry and father four children.
| 237 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:28:39pm |
re: #231 windsagio
actually in my 2 main hobbies right now (fighting games and internetting), reading folks is the most important skill of all.
Sarah Palin makes it easy for you since she writes the notes on her hand for you to read...
| 238 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:28:46pm |
re: #233 recusancy
So this is a manufactured Steve on display, here in the comments, day after day for years? What a toy.
the difference is, I'm nobodies lap dog...politicians are forever in debt to their masters
| 239 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:30:00pm |
re: #225 windsagio
I'd say gender identity is almost entirely how you fit or don't fit into those accepted gender roles :p
Again, barring the tiny minority who feel lost in their bodies (as compared to society), that does happen, and its a nightmare.
I disagree. Cross-gender hormones, for example, wouldn't be nearly as effective at relieving the stress of trans people if fitting into roles was the only important part. And you would only see trans women that tried to be ultra-feminine and trans men that wanted to be ultra-masculine.
Rather, I think it's just a case that most people at least attempt to somewhat fit the expected gender roles assigned to their gender identity.
| 240 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:30:02pm |
re: #238 albusteve
the difference is, I'm nobodies lap dog...politicians are forever in debt to their masters
Ahh... lol Who's lap is the Won in?
| 241 |
AK-47% Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:30:58pm |
re: #240 recusancy
Ahh... lol Who's lap is the Won in?
Just look at his campaign contributors, a lot of them are from Wall Street.
| 242 |
aagcobb Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:31:22pm |
Got to go get the kids; I'll look for a response from engineer dog on this thread this evening.
| 243 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:31:59pm |
re: #232 aagcobb
You got it; I'm willing to bet that Romney will not be the GOP nominee for President. So what are the stakes?
ten scrabillion quatloos (intergalactic), say?
seriously, if you are correct i would be so pleased - as a democratic voter - that i would pay you with pleasure and con carne
anyway - you're on!
| 244 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:32:53pm |
re: #231 windsagio
actually in my 2 main hobbies right now (fighting games and internetting), reading folks is the most important skill of all.
can you interknit?
| 245 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:33:17pm |
re: #240 recusancy
Ahh... lol Who's lap is the Won in?
Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, his corporate sponsors...he's a pol...whether they all get along is a separate issue
| 246 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:36:37pm |
re: #241 ralphieboy
Just look at his campaign contributors, a lot of them are from Wall Street.
of course...after election the bills have to be paid...it has nothing to do with party affiliation, every president is somebody's bitch
| 247 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:37:13pm |
re: #245 albusteve
Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, his corporate sponsors...he's a pol...whether they all get along is a separate issue
He's in Pelosi and Reid's lap? Interesting.
Out of curiosity, who, past or present, is worthy of your praise and not just some schmuck manufactured for a AmIdol contest?
You also never answered why you believe Obama is a ditz.
| 248 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:37:43pm |
re: #246 albusteve
of course...after election the bills have to be paid...it has nothing to do with party affiliation, every president is somebody's bitch
Congratulations. You're filling the Cranky Lizard spot formerly occupied by Walter quite ably.
| 249 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:38:15pm |
re: #248 oaktree
Congratulations. You're filling the Cranky Lizard spot formerly occupied by Walter quite ably.
| 250 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:40:19pm |
re: #222 000G
Some serious discussion, from the Bloomberg article:
Yes, a lot of people are going to try to blame the Fed to cover their asses. Although the details and exact amounts just came out none of this should come as a surprise. It's no surprise that "audit the Fed" stuff is popular with congess because they would love to expand their power. Given the recent revelations about insider trading from congress (which also shouldn't come as a surprise) I don't think giving them more insider information is a good idea. Also allowing them to manipulate monetary policy through oversight for political advantage is a recipe for disaster.
They get the information about Fed loans eventually but not in time to allow them insider trading opportunities or to allow them the possibility of intervening for political purposes (influencing elections, helping their home districts, etc).
| 251 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:41:08pm |
re: #248 oaktree
Congratulations. You're filling the Cranky Lizard spot formerly occupied by Walter quite ably.
At least he doesn't have an avatar where's he's in some creepy robe.
| 252 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:41:36pm |
re: #250 Killgore Trout
Yes, a lot of people are going to try to blame the Fed to cover their asses. Although the details and exact amounts just came out none of this should come as a surprise. It's no surprise that "audit the Fed" stuff is popular with congess because they would love to expand their power. Given the recent revelations about insider trading from congress (which also shouldn't come as a surprise) I don't think giving them more insider information is a good idea. Also allowing them to manipulate monetary policy through oversight for political advantage is a recipe for disaster.
They get the information about Fed loans eventually but not in time to allow them insider trading opportunities or to allow them the possibility of intervening for political purposes (influencing elections, helping their home districts, etc).
I'm honestly not even sure what an audit of the Fed would even entail.
| 253 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:41:54pm |
re: #247 recusancy
He's in Pelosi and Reid's lap? Interesting.
Out of curiosity, who, past or present, is worthy of your praise and not just some schmuck manufactured for a AmIdol contest?
You also never answered why you believe Obama is a ditz.
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
| 254 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:41:56pm |
re: #251 recusancy
At least he doesn't have an avatar where's he's in some creepy robe.
| 255 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:43:05pm |
re: #248 oaktree
Congratulations. You're filling the Cranky Lizard spot formerly occupied by Walter quite ably.
yeah, objecting to BO has a very predictable result
| 256 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:43:57pm |
re: #253 albusteve
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
Obama got Osama.
Your argument is invalid.
;)
| 257 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:43:58pm |
re: #251 recusancy
At least he doesn't have an avatar where's he's in some creepy robe.
I like the LGF logo
| 258 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:44:12pm |
re: #253 albusteve
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
lol
| 259 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:44:54pm |
re: #252 Simply Sarah
I'm honestly not even sure what an audit of the Fed would even entail.
It's basically an attempt for congress to take control over monetary policy. They want more oversight and approval over fed actions. People like Ron Paul want it to bog down the fed with extra rules and regulations so the Fed can't take any action at all, thereby destroying it.
| 260 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:45:17pm |
re: #256 Varek Raith
Obama got Osama.
Your argument is invalid.
;)
he's done okay in that regard...like, was there a choice?
| 261 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:45:18pm |
Psst... Presidents don't write legislation. That's the Legislative branch's job.
Just FYI.
| 262 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:45:54pm |
| 263 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:46:28pm |
re: #253 albusteve
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
Separation of powers is a bitch, isn't it?
| 264 |
Simply Sarah Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:46:50pm |
re: #259 Killgore Trout
It's basically an attempt for congress to take control over monetary policy. They want more oversight and approval over fed actions. People like Ron Paul want it to bog down the fed with extra rules and regulations so the Fed can't take any action at all, thereby destroying it.
But...but...big government! Regulations!
| 265 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:47:13pm |
re: #253 albusteve
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
Your beef seems to be with the legislature. Hate to say what's already been said but the president does not write laws.
| 266 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:47:19pm |
re: #250 Killgore Trout
Well, then it's a definitive argument against bailouts by Congress. Why should lawmakers be expected to just write blanket checks, without any verification or accountability? Because it's better to have private krooks than public ones? The corruption of the Congress Critters is nothing against the scope of the corruption of the banking CEOs. And, just a reminder: It's still a democracy. The Fed operates purely under charter by Congress.
| 267 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:47:28pm |
re: #261 Lidane
Psst... Presidents don't write legislation. That's the Legislative branch's job.
Just FYI.
at the point that it passes a vote...presidents have a huge input into party legislation, or can if they want
| 268 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:49:19pm |
re: #265 HappyWarrior
Your beef seems to be with the legislature. Hate to say what's already been said but the president does not write laws.
no, I describing BO as I see him...the fact that legislature writes laws is hardly the point
| 269 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:50:07pm |
re: #266 000G
Basically, the lifeline that the Fed has from the Treasury needs to be re-examined. Consider BS like this:
The significant shift was tucked quietly into the Fed’s weekly report on its balance sheet and phrased in such technical terms that it was not even reported by financial media when originally announced on January 6.
[…]
“Could the Fed go broke? The answer to this question was ‘Yes,’ but is now ‘No,’” said Raymond Stone, managing director at Stone & McCarthy in Princeton, New Jersey. “An accounting methodology change at the central bank will allow the Fed to incur losses, even substantial losses, without eroding its capital.”
The change essentially allows the Fed to denote losses by the various regional reserve banks that make up the Fed system as a liability to the Treasury rather than a hit to its capital. It would then simply direct future profits from Fed operations toward that liability.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
This is dangerous. It’s essentially a form of automatic recapitalizing of the Fed through the Treasury. Wonder how that will end up in the federal deficit…
| 270 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:50:08pm |
re: #250 Killgore Trout
Given the recent revelations about insider trading from congress (which also shouldn't come as a surprise)
Capt Renault: I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.
Casablanca!
| 272 |
shutdown Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:51:07pm |
@albusteve..
I admit I was not quite on the money yesterday when I opined that Cain's campaign staff would start taking their leave. But you have to admit, the candidate putting his entire campaign in play is pretty close...
| 273 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:51:13pm |
Okay this just sucks. I can't directly cover OccupyLA as LAPD is suddenly going with a highly restricted media pool only. Crap. I'm not risking arrest.
| 274 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:51:17pm |
re: #268 albusteve
no, I describing BO as I see him...the fact that legislature writes laws is hardly the point
How you see him is not based in reality and not borne out by the facts. Your only complaint that holds merit is he has not lead his party strongly enough.
| 275 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:52:15pm |
re: #253 albusteve
Kieth Richards...
BO is a ditz because he's got no guts, he does not like criticism, he only talks rather than become involved, he's written no legislation, he won't even lead his own party, he's aloof, disengaged and always on the campaign trail...he's accomplished little that working people can relate to...he's present but little else
In a parallel universe, there's an albusteve complaining that BO's a brash, overemotional micromanager who doesn't understand checks and balances and thinks he runs the whole show.
| 276 |
makeitstop Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:52:34pm |
Damn work. I can't keep up with this thread.
You guys want to comment slower? Thanks.
| 277 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:53:07pm |
re: #276 makeitstop
Damn work. I can't keep up with this thread.
You guys want to comment slower? Thanks.
You're better off for it.
| 278 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:53:11pm |
re: #276 makeitstop
Damn work. I can't keep up with this thread.
You guys want to comment slower? Thanks.
N
| 279 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:53:17pm |
re: #276 makeitstop
Damn work. I can't keep up with this thread.
You guys want to comment slower? Thanks.
O
| 280 |
Lidane Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:53:29pm |
re: #267 albusteve
at the point that it passes a vote...presidents have a huge input into party legislation, or can if they want
He can propose legislation, which Obama has done in his SOTU addresses.
He can sign a bill.
He can veto a bill.
He can call Congress into special session if there's a need for it.
He can try to influence public opinion on a piece of legislation, which he has done.
Exactly what else do you want him to do? He can't actively write laws himself. It's not his job.
| 281 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:54:25pm |
re: #280 Lidane
He can propose legislation, which Obama has done in his SOTU addresses.
He can sign a bill.
He can veto a bill.
He can call Congress into special session if there's a need for it.
He can try to influence public opinion on a piece of legislation, which he has done.
Exactly what else do you want him to do? He can't actively write laws himself. It's not his job.
Two words.
Flying.
Cars.
| 282 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:55:00pm |
re: #280 Lidane
He can propose legislation, which Obama has done in his SOTU addresses.
He can sign a bill.
He can veto a bill.
He can call Congress into special session if there's a need for it.
He can try to influence public opinion on a piece of legislation, which he has done.
Exactly what else do you want him to do? He can't actively write laws himself. It's not his job.
And he can't force Congress to do his bidding, no matter how badly we've love for him to do so at times. Congressional Republicans get off on making his interference as the reason for their own failures, while Congressional Democrats have come to view him as too willing to give away the farm in exchange for a glass of sour milk.
| 283 |
makeitstop Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:55:19pm |
| 284 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:55:30pm |
| 285 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:55:30pm |
re: #280 Lidane
He can propose legislation, which Obama has done in his SOTU addresses.
He can sign a bill.
He can veto a bill.
He can call Congress into special session if there's a need for it.
He can try to influence public opinion on a piece of legislation, which he has done.
Exactly what else do you want him to do? He can't actively write laws himself. It's not his job.
Every time I hear this sort of complaint, I ask "what EXACTLY do you want BHO to do?" the answer I always get is cloaked in metaphors: "he should twist some arms", for example. When I press, and ask for non-metaphorical conduct, there's nothing there. Just dead air.
| 286 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:57:51pm |
re: #285 garhighway
Every time I hear this sort of complaint, I ask "what EXACTLY do you want BHO to do?" the answer I always get is cloaked in metaphors: "he should twist some arms", for example. When I press, and ask for non-metaphorical conduct, there's nothing there. Just dead air.
When the left complains with something similar they bring up FDR. FDR had a congress willing to get shit done though. It was a highly active congress. Pretty much the opposite of this one.
| 287 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:58:03pm |
re: #285 garhighway
Every time I hear this sort of complaint, I ask "what EXACTLY do you want BHO to do?" the answer I always get is cloaked in metaphors: "he should twist some arms", for example. When I press, and ask for non-metaphorical conduct, there's nothing there. Just dead air.
"Leadership" apparently is some mystical quality that only works when a president exercises it, and only under the right circumstances. A president who gets himself totally involved, is on the phone every night, gives daily speeches, and is "twisting arms," can still be accused of a "lack of leadership" when things don't work out in his favor.
| 288 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 1:58:31pm |
re: #286 recusancy
When the left complains with something similar they bring up FDR. FDR had a congress willing to get shit done though. It was a highly active congress. Pretty much the opposite of this one.
Exactly.
| 289 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:00:53pm |
Time to roll out the new Zombie Progressive Fusion Party ticket:
Roosevelt/Roosevelt
The difficulty will be deciding whether Teddy or Franklin is the primary brain eater...
... though we all know that Teddy will prevail.
| 290 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:00:55pm |
re: #266 000G
Well, then it's a definitive argument against bailouts by Congress. Why should lawmakers be expected to just write blanket checks, without any verification or accountability? Because it's better to have private krooks than public ones? The corruption of the Congress Critters is nothing against the scope of the corruption of the banking CEOs. And, just a reminder: It's still a democracy. The Fed operates purely under charter by Congress.
I guess all I can say is to be very careful about embracing populist economics. Any time you find yourself on the same side as Ron Paul it's time to give things some serious thought.
| 291 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:01:28pm |
re: #104 ralphieboy
Any conservative who was not just some kind of an idiot reactionary should have been at least grudgingly proud of Obama's victory: a person from completley non-priveleged background who made his way up through determination and hard work, the very embodiment of the American Dream that they like to remind us is available to all Americans who try hard enough.
Instead we get a party that is perfectly at home with birthers.
Yah but that's just for conservative whites and their admirers. To be authentically black/acceptably Negro and also successful, you have to have bigoted benefactors like the Kochs or other captains of industry.
| 292 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:02:31pm |
"twisting arms,"
lbj was the true zen master of twisting arms in the modern era, and even he had a hell of a time passing the civil rights legislation
and he had much larger congressional majorities, not to mention a gop that still had sane people in it
i give obama credit for doing very well for a moderate dealing with an evil propoganda spewing maching
| 293 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:03:31pm |
re: #285 garhighway
Every time I hear this sort of complaint, I ask "what EXACTLY do you want BHO to do?" the answer I always get is cloaked in metaphors: "he should twist some arms", for example. When I press, and ask for non-metaphorical conduct, there's nothing there. Just dead air.
Agreed. Nothing but cliches, like "twist some arms", "kick some butt", "show some balls", "go behind closed doors like LBJ", etc. Utterly idiotic. No one would, or should accept that kind of behavior from a conservative, and when I bring up that no liberal should be demanding it of a liberal, again, the silence is golden.
| 294 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:06:35pm |
re: #290 Killgore Trout
I guess all I can say is to be very careful about embracing populist economics. Any time you find yourself on the same side as Ron Paul it's time to give things some serious thought.
Fair enough, but I think I can argue my own, without having to refer to Paul or Mises or Rand or whom have you.
| 295 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:06:54pm |
| 296 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:07:30pm |
Let us not forget Obama is facing a party whose number one goal is your electoral defeat. Kind of difficult to sway them.
;)
| 297 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:07:52pm |
| 298 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:11:13pm |
| 299 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:11:42pm |
re: #297 000G
That was the SFW way of putting it. Our own terms for imitation Negroes aren't quite as nice.
| 300 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:13:26pm |
re: #292 engineer dog
"twisting arms,"
lbj was the true zen master of twisting arms in the modern era, and even he had a hell of a time passing the civil rights legislation
and he had much larger congressional majorities, not to mention a gop that still had sane people in it
i give obama credit for doing very well for a moderate dealing with an evil propoganda spewing maching
And that truly is the long and short of it. The Democrats are already in a piss-poor position, so a President riding their asses is not a recipe for success. And the GOP leadership is totally fractured, with Boehner showing moments of sanity before being dragged down by party politics that are being dictated by radicals in the ranks who see "compromise" as a four-letter word. Not to mention he also has to deal with his own Brutus in the form of Eric Cantor, a guy who is quick to rally the Tea Party troops when it appears for a second like Boehner might be willing to work with Obama on anything worthwhile.
| 301 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:15:18pm |
re: #300 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And that truly is the long and short of it. The Democrats are already in a piss-poor position, so a President riding their asses is not a recipe for success. And the GOP leadership is totally fractured, with Boehner showing moments of sanity before being dragged down by party politics that are being dictated by radicals in the ranks who see "compromise" as a four-letter word. Not to mention he also has to deal with his own Brutus in the form of Eric Cantor, a guy who is quick to rally the Tea Party troops when it appears for a second like Boehner might be willing to work with Obama on anything worthwhile.
Yep Cantor doesn't help much at all. As I've said. It's embarrassing that he's my state's most powerful member in Congress.
| 302 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:16:13pm |
re: #248 oaktree
Congratulations. You're filling the Cranky Lizard spot formerly occupied by Walter quite ably.
Meh, he's still far to pleasant to converse with to be a Walter. I'm reminded more of Cato...
| 303 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:16:31pm |
re: #300 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And that truly is the long and short of it. The Democrats are already in a piss-poor position, so a President riding their asses is not a recipe for success. And the GOP leadership is totally fractured, with Boehner showing moments of sanity before being dragged down by party politics that are being dictated by radicals in the ranks who see "compromise" as a four-letter word. Not to mention he also has to deal with his own Brutus in the form of Eric Cantor, a guy who is quick to rally the Tea Party troops when it appears for a second like Boehner might be willing to work with Obama on anything worthwhile.
i think cantor and the teabaggers are working on the theory that they can hold out for total gop victory next year and then they will Rule The World Forever
| 304 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:17:27pm |
re: #301 HappyWarrior
Yep Cantor doesn't help much at all. As I've said. It's embarrassing that he's my state's most powerful member in Congress.
I there with ya, living in VA Beach. When I heard him nattering on just after the earthquake about how any disaster funds have to be paid for with cuts elsewhere, I could only shake my head that he's willing to sell his own constituents out to please St. Norquest.
| 305 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:19:08pm |
re: #304 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I there with ya, living in VA Beach. When I heard him nattering on just after the earthquake about how any disaster funds have to be paid for with cuts elsewhere, I could only shake my head that he's willing to sell his own constituents out to please St. Norquest.
Man, can you imagine what would've happened if North Anna had a serious problem? It was damn close to the quake's epicenter.
:/
| 306 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:19:47pm |
re: #304 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I there with ya, living in VA Beach. When I heard him nattering on just after the earthquake about how any disaster funds have to be paid for with cuts elsewhere, I could only shake my head that he's willing to sell his own constituents out to please St. Norquest.
He's nothing but a shill for the RW. Part of me hopes he gets cocky enough to run for governor or senator an gets his ass handed to him. Can't see him doing too well here in NoVa but we're not "real Virginia" anyhow.
| 307 |
Targetpractice Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:21:08pm |
re: #303 engineer dog
i think cantor and the teabaggers are working on the theory that they can hold out for total gop victory next year and then they will Rule The World Forever
Canter and the TPers are reading (ironically enough) from Newt's '95 handbook. They just didn't read far enough to find out that it was such bullshit political policy that led the GOP to major losses the following year. I guess they think that, with mouthpieces like Fox News, they can control the message this time. Judging from polls, that's not a recipe for a success anymore than it was for Newt.
| 308 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:22:45pm |
re: #307 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Canter and the TPers are reading (ironically enough) from Newt's '95 handbook. They just didn't read far enough to find out that it was such bullshit political policy that led the GOP to major losses the following year. I guess they think that, with mouthpieces like Fox News, they can control the message this time. Judging from polls, that's not a recipe for a success anymore than it was for Newt.
Yep, they kind of neglected to realize that the interwebs is exponentially bigger than it was in 1995.
| 309 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:23:38pm |
re: #308 Varek Raith
Yep, they kind of neglected to realize that the interwebs is exponentially bigger than it was in 1995.
Country's demographics are different too which is why I think this brand of conservatism if you want to call it that is doomed long run.
| 310 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:25:37pm |
re: #307 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Canter and the TPers are reading (ironically enough) from Newt's '95 handbook. They just didn't read far enough to find out that it was such bullshit political policy that led the GOP to major losses the following year. I guess they think that, with mouthpieces like Fox News, they can control the message this time. Judging from polls, that's not a recipe for a success anymore than it was for Newt.
2012 is their race to lose. If the GOP puts forth someone non-crazy, they win in a walk.
| 311 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:29:28pm |
re: #310 garhighway
2012 is their race to lose. If the GOP puts forth someone non-crazy, they win in a walk.
on the other hand, the current gop congress is garnering historic lows for approval, so maybe not...
| 312 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:31:13pm |
re: #311 engineer dog
on the other hand, the current gop congress is garnering historic lows for approval, so maybe not...
If there was a race where a third party could attract support this is it.
| 313 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:31:44pm |
re: #310 garhighway
2012 is their race to lose. If the GOP puts forth someone non-crazy, they win in a walk.
yeah I don't believe that ;-)
| 314 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:32:34pm |
re: #311 engineer dog
on the other hand, the current gop congress is garnering historic lows for approval, so maybe not...
Congress is never popular.
The math this time around is pretty compelling. Presidents don't win re-election with approval numbers this low and unemployment this high. They just don't. Absent a material change in the landscape, the only way BHO pulls this out is if the GOP scores points for him by putting forward someone pretty flawed. Romney would win in a walk. Everyone else has issues, though.
| 315 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:36:55pm |
re: #314 garhighway
Congress is never popular.
The math this time around is pretty compelling. Presidents don't win re-election with approval numbers this low and unemployment this high. They just don't. Absent a material change in the landscape, the only way BHO pulls this out is if the GOP scores points for him by putting forward someone pretty flawed. Romney would win in a walk. Everyone else has issues, though.
And people always think the country in moving in the wrong direction.
/Useless polls
| 316 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:38:14pm |
re: #315 Varek Raith
And people always think the country in moving in the wrong direction.
/Useless polls
Come to think of it, I've never seen a poll where the country thinks otherwise. I can't see anyone winning in a walk. Country's too divided.
| 317 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:40:05pm |
re: #314 garhighway
Congress is never popular.
The math this time around is pretty compelling. Presidents don't win re-election with approval numbers this low and unemployment this high. They just don't. Absent a material change in the landscape, the only way BHO pulls this out is if the GOP scores points for him by putting forward someone pretty flawed. Romney would win in a walk. Everyone else has issues, though.
Actually one prominent newspaper believes that Romney will have electability problems.
| 318 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:40:49pm |
There is a pretty decent baseline on the approval rating polls, and they are very bad news for BHO. That is a simple fact. Lapsing into the "stupid polls" mode is simply ignoring reality.
| 319 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:41:32pm |
re: #317 recusancy
Actually one prominent newspaper believes that Romney will have electability problems.
Prominent does not equal sensible.
| 320 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:41:37pm |
re: #314 garhighway
Romney would win in a walk
mmmm I'm not so sure about that...
i think it would be close
| 321 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:42:12pm |
re: #318 garhighway
There is a pretty decent baseline on the approval rating polls, and they are very bad news for BHO. That is a simple fact. Lapsing into the "stupid polls" mode is simply ignoring reality.
That's not what I was saying.
| 322 |
makeitstop Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:42:56pm |
re: #317 recusancy
Actually one prominent newspaper believes that Romney will have electability problems.
I agree. The man stands for nothing. He's changed his stance on every issue just to get the nomination, which isn't even a safe bet right now.
What if he gets it? Is he gonna change back on everything to look like a moderate? Good luck with that. It'll be John Kerry II: Electric Bugaloo.
| 323 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:43:41pm |
re: #314 garhighway
Congress is never popular.
in some elections, the house changes hands. other times, not
| 324 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:44:02pm |
re: #320 engineer dog
mmm I'm not so sure about that...
i think it would be close
Yeah I don't see Romney getting huge turnout from his base, getting a fair amont of crossover Dems, and beating Obama big with Independents as well as winning states that Republicans normally don't which are the usual ingredients of a landslide. Not saying I don't think he can win. He can but Mitt does have his own problems.
| 325 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:45:09pm |
re: #27 Talking Point Detective
I find this data manipulation problematic. When I created the real version of that figure, it occurred to me that it would be reproduced in articles, presentations, or blog posts. Because I find the difference between our land and ocean estimates to be such an important caveat to our work, I made sure to include all three curves in the figure, so that anyone reproducing it would have to acknowledge these caveats. I didn’t anticipate that anyone would simple edit the figure to remove our caveats.
Who would anticipate such a thing?
| 326 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:47:12pm |
re: #324 HappyWarrior
Yeah I don't see Romney getting huge turnout from his base, getting a fair amont of crossover Dems, and beating Obama big with Independents as well as winning states that Republicans normally don't which are the usual ingredients of a landslide. Not saying I don't think he can win. He can but Mitt does have his own problems.
If it's Mitt vs BHO I don't see either base being all that energized. Call it a wash.
And the whole "Mitt is a flip-flopper" thing doesn't play well in the general. All it does is plant the thought that he won't be as extreme as he had to sound in the primary campaign. And the electorate has become used to candidates tacking to the center in the general. They all do it.
| 327 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:47:14pm |
re: #318 garhighway
There is a pretty decent baseline on the approval rating polls, and they are very bad news for BHO. That is a simple fact. Lapsing into the "stupid polls" mode is simply ignoring reality.
His approval is right about where Reagan, Clinton and W were when they were heading into reellection years. In the 40's.
| 328 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:48:11pm |
re: #314 garhighway
you're assuming Romney can actually energize the GOP base, which has now been taken over by social conservatives and evangelicals
You're assuming that the GOP's grassroots foundation isn't reactionary Christian and xenophobic. Which they are.
so yeah, not buying the romney in a walk. This isn't a normal election. This is a real weird time in America's history
Also, there could be another credit crisis. The eurozone could disintegrate before the election. Real unpredictable times
| 329 |
makeitstop Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:50:09pm |
re: #326 garhighway
If it's Mitt vs BHO I don't see either base being all that energized. Call it a wash.
And the whole "Mitt is a flip-flopper" thing doesn't play well in the general. All it does is plant the thought that he won't be as extreme as he had to sound in the primary campaign. And the electorate has become used to candidates tacking to the center in the general. They all do it.
Easy. Just run clips of everything he said in the primaries. Straight up crazy.
Dishonest? Maybe. But Romney set those ground rules. 'It's his voice, he did say it,' remember?
| 330 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:50:22pm |
Nobody's saying Obama doesn't have his work cut out for him but to call Romney's gonna have a cake walk is a bit hyperbolic.
| 331 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:51:26pm |
| 332 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:51:49pm |
re: #330 recusancy
Nobody's saying Obama doesn't have his work cut out for him but to call Romney's gonna have a cake walk is a bit hyperbolic.
Yep. And honestly who's to say the flip flopper label won't hurt Romney. What was John Kerry derided for in 2004 and the label stuck with him? Romney will give Obama a competitive race and can beat him sure but a cakewalk it will not be.
| 333 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:52:07pm |
actually, i think if the economy wasn't in a historic funk the gop would be in more serious trouble than it has been in decades
i have a theory that american elections are lost, not won. and the gop, in congress as well as the presidential candidates, is doing a spectacular job of losing
| 334 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:52:27pm |
re: #328 WindUpBird
you're assuming Romney can actually energize the GOP base, which has now been taken over by social conservatives and evangelicals
You're assuming that the GOP's grassroots foundation isn't reactionary Christian and xenophobic. Which they are.
so yeah, not buying the romney in a walk. This isn't a normal election. This is a real weird time in America's history
Also, there could be another credit crisis. The eurozone could disintegrate before the election. Real unpredictable times
Fair enough. These are strange times indeed, and a lot can happen in the next 11 months. But if I were putting money on this now, and it was Romney v BHO, I'd put my money on Romney.
| 335 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:52:37pm |
re: #268 albusteve
no, I describing BO as I see him...the fact that legislature writes laws is hardly the point
| 336 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:54:19pm |
While this discussion is interesting, it is pointless.
The world ends before Obama or Romney could take office.
;)
| 337 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:54:30pm |
I've been watching some of the COP17 video live... in the quiet hours of this part of the world. Last night the UNFCCC declared that next year's meeting will be held in Qatar.
A little bit of blowback has started:
World’s Unions Criticise Decision to Hold 2012 Climate Summit in Qatar
The decision to allow Qatar, notorious for its violations of workers’ rights, to host the 2012 UN climate change summit has been strongly criticised by the world’s main trade union body, the ITUC.
“Huge economic transformation is needed to tackle climate change. This massive task can only be achieved if working people’s rights are respected – it cannot be simply imposed from above. Qatar has an appalling record of ignoring workers’ rights, especially migrants, and the decision to hold next year’s climate summit there sends a totally wrong message and risks delaying vital action. Either Qatar must move urgently to implement labour laws in line with international standards, or another host country should be found for the COP18 talks,” said ITUC General Secretary Sharan Burrow.
ITUC overestimates their own importance in the world, but nevertheless it's a good criticism.
I tweeted last night, during the announcement, that Qatar is the world's leading CO2 emitter per capita. I think I saw only one other tweet to #COP17 that mentioned that fact too.
The other alternative was South Korea, but for some reason the powers that be decided against SK (except to decide to hold the early ministerial meeting there, as some sort of runners-up prize.)
| 338 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:55:34pm |
Ok, I can't scan the whole thread.
How is the evening going?
| 339 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:55:43pm |
re: #336 Varek Raith
While this discussion is interesting, it is pointless.
The world ends before Obama or Romney could take office.
;)
Mayan Partay.
| 340 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:55:43pm |
re: #334 garhighway
Fair enough. These are strange times indeed, and a lot can happen in the next 11 months. But if I were putting money on this now, and it was Romney v BHO, I'd put my money on Romney.
He's so weak in the GOP despite his advantages NEWT GINGRICH is challenging him.
| 341 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:56:03pm |
re: #336 Varek Raith
While this discussion is interesting, it is pointless.
The world ends before Obama or Romney could take office.
;)
a date! - you have to name the date and time!!!
| 342 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:56:05pm |
re: #330 recusancy
Nobody's saying Obama doesn't have his work cut out for him but to call Romney's gonna have a cake walk is a bit hyperbolic.
I call it 55 -45 Romney (and an EC spanking), if he's the nominee and nothing really weird happens that changes the landscape. I don't think that's hyperbole.
Anyone besides Romney, all bets are off.
| 343 |
garhighway Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:56:56pm |
re: #336 Varek Raith
While this discussion is interesting, it is pointless.
The world ends before Obama or Romney could take office.
;)
Plus the fact that this is all a dream matters, too.
| 344 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:57:39pm |
re: #343 garhighway
Plus the fact that this is all a dream matters, too.
Actually, it's a dream within a dream within the Matrix.
| 345 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:58:05pm |
re: #335 goddamnedfrank
yeah, criticizing BO is useless...criticizing any conservative is a big hooray...nothing new
partisanship is the name of the game
| 346 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:58:09pm |
re: #344 Varek Raith
Actually, it's a dream within a dream within the Matrix.
I thought we were all products of someone's imagination . . .
| 347 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:58:34pm |
My prediction: Romney gets the nomination. 2 months before the election Obama and Mitt both switch parties, Obama runs as a Republican and Mitt runs as a Dem. Voter turnout will be about 5%. Obama wins a close race, fires Biden and hires Mitt as VP.
Everybody wins!
| 348 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:58:42pm |
re: #346 ggt
I thought we were all products of someone's imagination . . .
In which the Matrix comes from.
| 349 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:59:12pm |
re: #347 Killgore Trout
My prediction: Romney gets the nomination. 2 months before the election Obama and Mitt both switch parties, Obama runs as a Republican and Mitt runs as a Dem. Voter turnout will be about 5%. Obama wins a close race, fires Biden and hires Mitt as VP.
Everybody wins!
Lol.
| 350 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Nov 29, 2011 2:59:58pm |
| 351 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:00:01pm |
re: #342 garhighway
I call it 55 -45 Romney (and an EC spanking), if he's the nominee and nothing really weird happens that changes the landscape. I don't think that's hyperbole.
Anyone besides Romney, all bets are off.
Wow. Obama v McCain was 53 - 47 and that was a blowout. That was with the country on the brink of a depression, 2 expensive neverending wars, a republican President with 20 something percent approval. So yes, saying Romney wins by 10 is pretty much hyperbole.
| 352 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:00:54pm |
re: #347 Killgore Trout
My prediction: Romney gets the nomination. 2 months before the election Obama and Mitt both switch parties, Obama runs as a Republican and Mitt runs as a Dem. Voter turnout will be about 5%. Obama wins a close race, fires Biden and hires Mitt as VP.
Everybody wins!
yeah, this distinction between parties is laughable...
donks good
phaunts bad
LOL
I hate them all equally...if hate were a car I'd be a Cadillac
| 353 |
engineer cat Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:01:01pm |
re: #347 Killgore Trout
Obama runs as a Republican and Mitt runs as a Dem
heh
i know for sure that there is a large group of people who think that obama has already become a republican, and an even larger group of utterly completely different people who think that mitt has already become a democrat
| 354 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:02:08pm |
| 355 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:02:15pm |
We've talked a lot about Romney... in 2008; e.g.:
| 356 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:02:43pm |
re: #355 freetoken
and now they hate him even more!
| 357 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:04:08pm |
you have a modern GOP whose secret weapons are politicized megachurches, and you think those churches are going to risk rebellions by their congregations by saying LETS ORGANIZE AND STAY UP LATE CANVASSING FOR THE MORMON?
No. :D
| 358 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:04:41pm |
re: #353 engineer dog
heh
i know for sure that there is a large group of people who think that obama has already become a republican, and an even larger group of utterly completely different people who think that mitt has already become a democrat
my exact sentiment...two sides of the same coin and WS plays them both like a fiddle...I could give a cap about party platform, divorce yourself from corporations and you'll get my attention....otherwise they are all the same in the big picture
| 359 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:06:41pm |
re: #357 WindUpBird
you have a modern GOP whose secret weapons are politicized megachurches, and you think those churches are going to risk rebellions by their congregations by saying LETS ORGANIZE AND STAY UP LATE CANVASSING FOR THE MORMON?
No. :D
Romney honestly being the nominee makes Obama more competitive in the south and other regions with a large evangelical presence. At the same time, if he returns to his former moderate image he could do better in places where Republicans have struggled in the past. I dunno. Just not impressed with him as a candidate. If he were a candidate on the verge of winning big in a GE, I think he would have made guys like Cain and Newt afterthoughts but he hasn't.
| 360 |
wilburs Tue, Nov 29, 2011 3:37:23pm |
re: #342 garhighway
I call it 55 -45 Romney (and an EC spanking), if he's the nominee and nothing really weird happens that changes the landscape. I don't think that's hyperbole.
Anyone besides Romney, all bets are off.
That's crazy talk
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