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185 comments
1 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:28:21pm

it’s called one foot on the platform and the other on the train….it’s gonna give Mitt the blues

2 ElCapitanAmerica  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:38:22pm

Translation “I don’t think he feels … attached to his roots”
The more literal translation is a bit more direct; “I don’t think he feels … a commitment to his roots”.

Very interesting, so did Romney’s dad have dual citizenship?

3 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:38:44pm

Obviously this call into questions Mitt’s loyalty to America.

///

4 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:43:09pm

re: #2 ElCapitanAmerica

Translation “I don’t think he feels … attached to his roots”
The more literal translation is a bit more direct; “I don’t think he feels … a commitment to his roots”.

Very interesting, so did Romney’s dad have dual citizenship?

no….A US citizen

5 BishopX  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:44:00pm

re: #2 ElCapitanAmerica

Translation “I don’t think he feels … attached to his roots”
The more literal translation is a bit more direct; “I don’t think he feels … a commitment to his roots”.

Very interesting, so did Romney’s dad have dual citizenship?

Romney’s dad would have had dual citizenship, and if I’m reading wikipedia right so does Mitt.

6 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:50:11pm

re: #4 albusteve

no…A US citizen

The terms aren’t mutually exclusive, dual citizens are US citizens.

7 darthstar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:51:09pm

And they’re polygamists! Sanctity of Marriage!
One man, one woman, and another woman, and another, and another…

8 darthstar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:51:41pm

This helps explain why Mitt speaks French.

9 ElCapitanAmerica  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:53:04pm

re: #4 albusteve

You can have dual citizenship, just some countries don’t allow it (so if you become a US citizen they determine you are no longer a citizen of their country). But it varies.

It’s a bit complicated from the US side, you can have US citizenship but you swear loyalty to only the US … so it’s a bit of an “odd” situation.

10 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:53:09pm

re: #5 BishopX

Romney’s dad would have had dual citizenship, and if I’m reading wikipedia right so does Mitt.

the law allowing dual citizenship was not in place until 1998…
mexicomatters.net

11 darthstar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:54:12pm

Because it’s a Fuckin’ sale, that’s why.

12 darthstar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:54:44pm

re: #10 albusteve

the law allowing dual citizenship was not in place until 1998…
[Link: www.mexicomatters.net…]

I’ll need to see his birth certificate.

13 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:55:11pm

re: #11 darthstar

Because it’s a Fuckin’ sale, that’s why.

I saw that the other day…those wacky Japanese!

14 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:56:19pm

re: #12 darthstar

I’ll need to see his birth certificate.

probably lost in the Great Revolucione

15 simoom  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:56:29pm

I just got back from voting and I was sort of surprised by all the candidates on the Democratic Party ballot. One that sticks out in my mind is someone who had “tax-freeze” as their middle name :P.

President Obama was maybe listed seventh among the jumble of names — took me a few seconds to find him.

16 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:56:32pm

re: #7 darthstar

And they’re polygamists! Sanctity of Marriage!
One man, one woman, and another woman, and another, and another…

I’m thinking this was probably the Romney family’s first tax “shelter.”

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:57:14pm

re: #13 talon_262

I saw that the other day…those wacky Japanese!

We have guys walking around with nonsensical phrases about teriyaki sauce tattooed on them…the Japanese have the Fuckin’ Sale…international sharing at its finest.

18 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 2:59:09pm

I posted a couple of Pages that relate to the Mexican Romneys two and a half years ago (my how time flies!) One still has a live link, the other one won’t connect to the article, but the headline still appears in the page header (or whatever you call that top bar in the browser.)

Kidnappings bring Chihuahua protest (With live link.)

Kidnappers free rancher related to former U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney (With disabled link.)


Here’s a Page about a Mormon community in that area, but I don’t think it mentions the Romneys.

Fear and Death in a Mormon Town in Mexico

(That Dashboard is great.)

And, to repeat from the previous thread, this is a great book. The woman whose biography it is turns out to be related to the Romneys, but the author didn’t know that when she wrote the book. The Fourth Wife: Polygamy, Love, and Revolution.

19 zora  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:00:01pm

re: #12 darthstar

even if you see it, it’s pious baloney. ha!

stopromneyspiousbaloney.com

20 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:03:59pm

Would be interesting to hear more interviews. Not just for the political angle but also because of the human interest behind it.

21 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:08:01pm

re: #20 Gus 802

Would be interesting to hear more interviews. Not just for the political angle but also because of the human interest behind it.

agreed…a very unusual background

22 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:09:09pm

re: #20 Gus 802

Would be interesting to hear more interviews. Not just for the political angle but also because of the human interest behind it.

I saw some other ones years ago, but I can’t find them now.

23 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:14:10pm

my maternal grandparents were big GOP dogs in Michigan…they knew the Romney’s very well…my mom’s cousin Jack ran for governor of Wisconsin and lost but his buddy Gerry Ford gave him the ambassadorship to the Bahamas and some other titles….useless factoids…I never met any of those guys but I did hobnob with Bart Star one time at my aunts house

24 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:15:32pm

what if i have DobleVision?

“no se puede caminar!”

25 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:19:25pm

Still won’t vote for him…..

26 TDG2112  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:19:28pm

re: #11 darthstar

Because it’s a Fuckin’ sale, that’s why.

I have a friend in Japan that tells me outside his apartment there are signs everywhere that say “no shit!” With a picture of a dog taking a dump

I just asked him to send me a picture. Maybe I’ll get it by tomorrow.

27 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:19:50pm

Julian LeBaron speaks in the video above. This is his late brother, Benjamin LeBaron.

And this is an opinion piece from 2010 in the Dallas Morning News by Julian LeBaron.

I call upon those who cultivate the land; those who care for animals; those who work in commerce, mines and construction. I call upon those who labor in our industries, those who care for our children, and to all who live honestly but have almost stopped dreaming because they feel defeated by a system that does not make good our efforts.

I am petitioning those who are victims of murder, kidnapping or extortion - by people who force the involuntary sacrifice of our good, so they can live further entrenched in their evil and ruin the lives of those who know how to live, for the benefit of parasites who do not.

In my state of Chihuahua and throughout Mexico, innumerable lives have been devastated by the loss of freedom and respect that are the right of every human. A system that does not respect the life, property and conscience of the individual is a system of criminals. A society ruled by men, and not by law, is a society of vultures and cannibals who feed on desolation.

I petition all who resent laws that forbid self-defense but cannot enforce justice, because I, Julian LeBaron, have had the outrageous experience of being chased at high speed by murderers who wore ski masks and were heavily armed. When my vehicle ramped a bridge at 70 mph, I stalled in the middle of the town of Ignacio Zaragoza. In a residential area, in view of many too afraid to help, I was severely beaten with machine guns. In the presence of my wife and children, they threatened to kidnap me, terrorizing my family. Innocent people suffer humiliation continually.

[…]

I think this is part of the resentment toward Mitt Romney. His relatives could really use some help down there, and all he does is talk about illegal aliens.

28 Lidane  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:20:44pm

How do some of these morans get through the day without hurting themselves?

Max Boot: Highly Disputed Call For Iran War Stands Undisputed

In a blog post yesterday on Commentary magazine’s website, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) scholar Max Boot goes beyond simply ignoring ideas with which he disagrees, and informs readers that no such credible ideas even exist. Boot’s article, headlined “A Powerful Case for Force Against Iran,” picks up on an article from Foreign Affairs magazine, CFR’s bi-monthly journal.

Boot’s fellow CFR scholar Matthew Kroenig, in an article entitled “Time to Attack Iran: Why a Strike is the Least Bad Option,” wrote that “a military strike intended to destroy Iran’s nuclear program, if managed carefully, could spare the region and the world a very real threat.” Calling the piece a “powerful and sober article in favor of bombing Iran,” Boot writes that Kroenig “knocks down pretty much all of the objections [to bombing] that have been made.” Boot’s approbation should come as no surprise, since he himself has called for war against Iran. But the most shocking part of Boot’s post was his concluding line:

I have yet to see (have I missed it?) an equally detailed and convincing exposition of the anti-bombing side.

29 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:22:44pm

re: #11 darthstar

Because it’s a Fuckin’ sale, that’s why.

OK, as a former retailer, that made me Laugh out loud!

30 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:23:02pm

re: #28 Lidane

How do some of these morans get through the day without hurting themselves?

Max Boot: Highly Disputed Call For Iran War Stands Undisputed

probably gonna happen regardless

31 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:23:55pm

re: #28 Lidane

How do some of these morans get through the day without hurting themselves?

Max Boot: Highly Disputed Call For Iran War Stands Undisputed

Has anybody told Max about the similarity between opinions and assholes?

32 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:24:04pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

Julian LeBaron speaks in the video above. This is his late brother, Benjamin LeBaron.

And this is an opinion piece from 2010 in the Dallas Morning News by Julian LeBaron.

I think this is part of the resentment toward Mitt Romney. His relatives could really use some help down there, and all he does is talk about illegal aliens.

We should do more for Mexico. Instead of chasing our tails with so many Middle Eastern dictators. It’s a little more complicated than my statement here obviously. But we should do more.

33 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:25:19pm

re: #11 darthstar

Because it’s a Fuckin’ sale, that’s why.

Somebody got a copy of the Monty Python English-Japanese dictionary.

34 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:25:58pm

re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Has anybody told Max about the similarity between opinions and assholes?

you do it…

35 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:27:55pm

re: #32 Gus 802

We should do more for Mexico. Instead of chasing our tails with so many Middle Eastern dictators. It’s a little more complicated than my statement here obviously. But we should do more.

again I agree…at this point I suppose the DEA has as much influence down there as we can expect…helping destroy the cartels…if that’s even possible

36 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:29:04pm

re: #10 albusteve

the law allowing dual citizenship was not in place until 1998…
[Link: www.mexicomatters.net…]

Wouldn’t that just be in Mexico, though? It wouldn’t affect how the U.S. considered the person’s citizenship.

37 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:32:16pm

re: #36 Sionainn

Wouldn’t that just be in Mexico, though? It wouldn’t affect how the U.S. considered the person’s citizenship.

George Romney was born to Americans in a foreign country, a citizen of the US…until 1998 he was entitiled to choose citizenship and his parents apparently chose the US…not sure about the question

38 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:36:22pm

re: #37 albusteve

George Romney was born to Americans in a foreign country, a citizen of the US…until 1998 he was entitiled to choose citizenship and his parents apparently chose the US…not sure about the question

Let me try to be more clear…the link you provided refers to how Mexico considered citizens, so to them, Romney’s dad would be a Mexican citizen (unless he relinquished that citizenship), but the U.S. would consider him a dual citizen.

39 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:37:10pm

re: #23 albusteve

my maternal grandparents were big GOP dogs in Michigan…they knew the Romney’s very well…my mom’s cousin Jack ran for governor of Wisconsin and lost but his buddy Gerry Ford gave him the ambassadorship to the Bahamas and some other titles…useless factoids…I never met any of those guys but I did hobnob with Bart Star one time at my aunts house

One of my earliest memories is watching TV as Bart Starr passes to Max McGee.

40 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:38:00pm

Welp. Here’s the New Hampshire primary scoreboard.

core.talkingpointsmemo.com

41 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:39:06pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Welp. Here’s the New Hampshire primary scoreboard.

[Link: core.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I take great satisfaction in seeing 0% for Rick Santorum. May the trend continue.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:41:02pm

re: #41 Sionainn

I take great satisfaction in seeing 0% for Rick Santorum. May the trend continue.

Still just one percent reporting.

43 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:41:38pm

re: #41 Sionainn

I take great satisfaction in seeing 0% for Rick Santorum. May the trend continue.

Yeah. I think that’s just Dixville Notch for the time being. But I hope he does fail. I imagine that Perry must be just about to explode since Ron Paul it beating him in the polls and lost in Iowa. Also projected to lose to Ron Paul tonight. Perry will probably suspend his campaign after tonight. Doesn’t make sense for him to keep going.

44 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:43:21pm

re: #43 Gus 802

Yeah. I think that’s just Dixville Notch for the time being. But I hope he does fail. I imagine that Perry must be just about to explode since Ron Paul it beating him in the polls and lost in Iowa. Also projected to lose to Ron Paul tonight. Perry will probably suspend his campaign after tonight. Doesn’t make sense for him to keep going.

He could try to hold out for SC, but last I heard, Romney’s pretty much got that one sewn up as well. Perry doesn’t do better than third tonight, he might as well hang it up.

45 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:43:25pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Still just one percent reporting.

I can still hope.

46 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:44:14pm

re: #32 Gus 802

We should do more for Mexico. Instead of chasing our tails with so many Middle Eastern dictators. It’s a little more complicated than my statement here obviously. But we should do more.

Agreed.

Instead of participating in the drug trade, we should legalize some drugs, and decriminalize others. Which means we need to fight the big pharma lobbyists. That’s our drug war.

47 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:44:41pm

re: #43 Gus 802

Yeah. I think that’s just Dixville Notch for the time being. But I hope he does fail. I imagine that Perry must be just about to explode since Ron Paul it beating him in the polls and lost in Iowa. Also projected to lose to Ron Paul tonight. Perry will probably suspend his campaign after tonight. Doesn’t make sense for him to keep going.

I heard a quote from Perry today saying something along the lines of “South Carolina is where presidents are chosen” or some such BS. I’m sure that really endeared him to the people of NH.

48 wee fury  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:44:45pm

re: #23 albusteve

my maternal grandparents were big GOP dogs in Michigan…they knew the Romney’s very well…my mom’s cousin Jack ran for governor of Wisconsin and lost but his buddy Gerry Ford gave him the ambassadorship to the Bahamas and some other titles…useless factoids…I never met any of those guys but I did hobnob with Bart Star one time at my aunts house

Bart Starr is a class act.

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:45:12pm

re: #41 Sionainn

I take great satisfaction in seeing 0% for Rick Santorum. May the trend continue.

He didn’t have a hundred days of nothing better to than tramp around the state like he did in Iowa.

50 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:45:58pm

re: #39 wlewisiii

One of my earliest memories is watching TV as Bart Starr passes to Max McGee.

the first real modern dynasty…my first experience with pro ball was Thanksgiving Day 1966…Dallas beat Jim Brown and the mighty Browns…I was hooked and the rest is history…they lost the championship, and the next year’s to the hated Packers

51 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:46:19pm

re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He didn’t have a hundred days of nothing better to than tramp around the state like he did in Iowa.

I don’t think his nonsense would go over as well with the people of New Hampshire.

52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:47:02pm

re: #51 Sionainn

I don’t think his nonsense would go over as well with the people of New Hampshire.

A-yup.

53 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:47:35pm

re: #1 albusteve

it’s called one foot on the platform and the other on the train…it’s gonna give Mitt the blues

I’d be more concerned with the groin pain and possible hernia he’s likely to get. If I were him that is.

54 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:48:01pm

re: #48 wee fury

Bart Starr is a class act.

very cool guy and I made sure he knew I was a brand new Cowboys fan…he got a big kick outa that

55 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:53:44pm

re: #53 b_sharp

I’d be more concerned with the groin pain and possible hernia he’s likely to get. If I were him that is.

metaphors will do that to you

56 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:54:56pm

Someone should examine his hair roots.

57 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:57:44pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A-yup.

Thats more a “Maine” thing

“Downeast” they call it,, along the coast, from about Portland to Bar Harbor (or as we say it,, BAHH HAHHBAHH)

58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:58:32pm

re: #57 sattv4u2

Thats more a “Maine” thing

“Downeast” they call it,, along the coast, from about Portland to Bar Harbor (or as we say it,, BAHH HAHHBAHH)

Yeah, but it out-weighed “Tru-Dat”.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 3:59:33pm

re: #57 sattv4u2

Thats more a “Maine” thing

“Downeast” they call it,, along the coast, from about Portland to Bar Harbor (or as we say it,, BAHH HAHHBAHH)

Frankly, why Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are not one state is a mystery to me.

60 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:00:17pm

It’s not out of the realm of possibilities for Ron Paul to win in NH. There was an awful lot of undecideds in the last few polls.

61 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:00:45pm

OT.

I caught my 15yo grandson surfing the porn sites yesterday and I blew up at him. I’m afraid I acted stupidly.

62 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:02:00pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Frankly, why Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are not one state is a mystery to me.

I say the same thing about Virginia and West (By God) Virginia!!

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:02:59pm

re: #61 b_sharp

I caught my 15yo grandson surfing the porn sites yesterday and I blew up at him. I think I acted stupidly.

Let him with a free hand cast the first stone.

64 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:03:05pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

oh ,, and BTW,, sonny’s been accepted to become a Hokie,,, got a bedroom available??

65 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:03:17pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Frankly, why Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are not one state is a mystery to me.

The difference between 2 senators and 6 senators?

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:04:14pm

re: #64 sattv4u2

He’s coming to Tech? Congratulations!

My Commonwealth will greatly appreciate your out of state dollars.

67 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:04:30pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Frankly, why Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are not one state is a mystery to me.

48 seems like a nice even number

68 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:04:48pm

re: #66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He’s coming to Tech? Congratulations!

My Commonwealth will greatly appreciate your out of state dollars.

I didn’t say he’s coming there

I said he;s been accepted TO come there

69 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:05:42pm

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Let him with a free hand cast the first stone.

Porn is not a good place to learn a woman’s place in a sexual relationship, and porn sites could introduce all kinds of malware to my network.

I need to have a heart to heart with him I think.

70 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:06:18pm

re: #69 b_sharp

Porn is not a good place to learn a woman’s place in a sexual relationship, and porn sites could introduce all kinds of malware to my network.

I need to have a heart to heart with him I think.

the tie breaker

71 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:07:36pm

re: #61 b_sharp

OT.

I caught my 15yo grandson surfing the porn sites yesterday and I blew up at him. I’m afraid I acted stupidly.

Salvageable. Please make him aware that viewing people in his age group is unacceptable. It’s cool that grandpa frowns on it, now you come in as an authority figure and let him know what is acceptable. For his own protection.

72 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:07:36pm

re: #68 sattv4u2

I didn’t say he’s coming going there

I said he;’s been accepted TO come go there

The Queen asked me to correct your grammar.

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:07:37pm

re: #68 sattv4u2

Georgia has some great schools.

He can help figure out how many oranges that slaves can pick.
/

74 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:08:28pm

re: #69 b_sharp

Porn is not a good place to learn a woman’s place in a sexual relationship, and porn sites could introduce all kinds of malware to my network.

I need to have a heart to heart with him I think.

Ah, just get him a Mac. All that stuff is written for WIndows … //

75 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:09:13pm

re: #61 b_sharp

There’s no scientific correlation between viewing porn and behaving like a jackass towards women, as far as I’ve heard. Yeah, it’s a little shocking what kids today have access to, but as long as you educate him about how reality is different, I doubt there’s harm.

76 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:09:49pm

re: #69 b_sharp

Porn is not a good place to learn a woman’s place in a sexual relationship, and porn sites could introduce all kinds of malware to my network.

I need to have a heart to heart with him I think.

I suspect close to 99 percent of men look at pornography in this day and age. There are a lot of options out that that present sexuality in less sexist fashions.
I remember a good friend of mine in highschool who was remarkably good with respecting the rules of Sabbath etc, who admitted to me the one impossible hurdle was pornography/masterbation. He missed a lot of Friday parties.

77 andres  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:10:04pm

re: #2 ElCapitanAmerica

Translation “I don’t think he feels … attached to his roots”
The more literal translation is a bit more direct; “I don’t think he feels … a commitment to his roots”.

It’s a razor thin difference, but I feel the better translation is the one you gave. Translation can be such a hassle…

78 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:10:07pm

re: #72 b_sharp

The Queen asked me to correct your grammar.

Nobody told me there was going to be grammar!

79 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:11:17pm
Goldberg3000 Jeffrey Goldberg
The dilemma: Tehran’s self-interest demands nukes; US will have a hard time convincing Iran otherwise. But U.S. interest is a nuke-free Iran
80 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:12:20pm

re: #79 Alexzander

there will be no Iranian nuclear weapons, my sources tell me

81 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:13:16pm

re: #76 Alexzander

I suspect close to 99 percent of men look at pornography in this day and age. There are a lot of options out that that present sexuality in less sexist fashions.
I remember a good friend of mine in highschool who was remarkably good with respecting the rules of Sabbath etc, who admitted to me the one impossible hurdle was pornography/masterbation. He missed a lot of Friday parties.

Does it count if you only read porn?

//(What’s everybody looking at?)

82 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:13:51pm

re: #80 albusteve

there will be no Iranian nuclear weapons, my sources tell me

I’d say that’s a safe bet. Other bombs will fall before we ever get there.

83 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:14:00pm

re: #76 Alexzander

I suspect close to 99 percent of men look at pornography in this day and age. There are a lot of options out that that present sexuality in less sexist fashions.
I remember a good friend of mine in highschool who was remarkably good with respecting the rules of Sabbath etc, who admitted to me the one impossible hurdle was pornography/masterbation. He missed a lot of Friday parties.

Speaking of porn and masturbation here is an article on Slate about how prison inmates are denied the right to even masturbate. The article says that stats imply that porn may decrease sex crimes like rape; incidences are dropping even as free porn has become easily available on the internet.

84 Lidane  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:14:13pm

Denial is a hell of a drug:

John McCain: Choosing Sarah Palin In 2008 ‘The Best Decision I’ve Ever Made’

85 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:14:13pm

re: #75 Obdicut

There’s no scientific correlation between viewing porn and behaving like a jackass towards women, as far as I’ve heard. Yeah, it’s a little shocking what kids today have access to, but as long as you educate him about how reality is different, I doubt there’s harm.

Yah, I know you’re right, but I was kind of hoping he would get a realistic image before seeing the imaginary stuff.

86 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:14:42pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Georgia has some great schools.

He can help figure out how many oranges that slaves can pick.
/

His 1st choice ,, Auburn (he’s already been accepted, and invited to their honors program)
Our 1st choice ,, Georgia Tech (in-state tuition/ board will be less than i’m paying now for his high school)

His (and our) 2nd choice is a smaller tech college here in Georia (also, in state tuition) that he’s already been accepted to and invited into their honors program

87 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:16:06pm

re: #80 albusteve

there will be no Iranian nuclear weapons, my sources tell me

PS - What are your sources?

88 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:16:11pm

re: #84 Lidane

Denial is a hell of a drug:

John McCain: Choosing Sarah Palin In 2008 ‘The Best Decision I’ve Ever Made’

Somebody wanna inform John that he’s not running for reelection just yet?

89 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:16:14pm

re: #75 Obdicut

There’s no scientific correlation between viewing porn and behaving like a jackass towards women, as far as I’ve heard. Yeah, it’s a little shocking what kids today have access to, but as long as you educate him about how reality is different, I doubt there’s harm.

porn is not real?…LOL!

90 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:16:22pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

Nobody told me there was going to be grammar!

To a member of the realm there is always grammar.

91 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:16:53pm

re: #86 sattv4u2

His 1st choice ,, Auburn (he’s already been accepted, and invited to their honors program)
Our 1st choice ,, Georgia Tech (in-state tuition/ board will be less than i’m paying now for his high school)

His (and our) 2nd choice is a smaller tech college here in Georia (also, in state tuition) that he’s already been accepted to and invited into their honors program

Two of mine went to Auburn—offer him a car to go to Ga Tech.

92 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:17:22pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Somebody wanna inform John that he’s not running for reelection just yet?

running for office is not the gist…where do you get this shit?

93 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:18:17pm

Anyone watching CNN right now?

94 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:18:36pm

re: #91 Decatur Deb

Two of mine went to Auburn—offer him a car to go to Ga Tech.

Do you have any clue as to how many cars are broken into/ stolen around the Tech campus?
It’ll be cheaper to send him to Opelika!~!!
/

95 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:18:45pm

re: #89 albusteve

porn is not real?…LOL!

Porn is real but it doesn’t represent a realistic sexual relationship - it’s an act.

96 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:18:48pm

re: #92 albusteve

running for office is not the gist…where do you get this shit?

Because the only other conclusion I can come to if he’s not running for office again is he’s beginning to go senile.

97 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:19:09pm

re: #93 Alexzander

Anyone watching CNN right now?

No, but Lewis Black is coming up on our Big Bang Theory in 10 min.

98 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:19:15pm

re: #84 Lidane

Denial is a hell of a drug:

John McCain: Choosing Sarah Palin In 2008 ‘The Best Decision I’ve Ever Made’

Now I know McCain is off his rocker…either that or the GOP good-old-boys are leaning on him in an attempt to prep the rest of the party for the inevitable TP/RWNJ VP candidate to “balance” a likely Romney nom.

99 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:19:22pm

re: #95 b_sharp

Porn is real but it doesn’t represent a realistic sexual relationship - it’s an act.

Unless its an honest sex tape! Ohh yeah. lulz.

100 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:20:01pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

Julian LeBaron speaks in the video above. This is his late brother, Benjamin LeBaron.

And this is an opinion piece from 2010 in the Dallas Morning News by Julian LeBaron.

I think this is part of the resentment toward Mitt Romney. His relatives could really use some help down there, and all he does is talk about illegal aliens.

Downstairs you asked me if George Romney would be ineligible for the presidency due to being born in Mexico even though both his parents were Americans. I read US v. Wong Kim Ark, and it went into great detail concerning the fact that the US adopted the common law definition of “natural born”, and therefore citizenship was determined by jus soli (soil) rather than jus sanguinus (blood). The SCOTUS said there are only two paths to US citizenship, either through birth in US territory or naturalization, and that the children of Americans born abroad were citizens due to an Act of Congress; thus they were naturalized, and not natural born, citizens. There are very few exceptions, such as children born at sea or the children of ambassadors.

101 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:20:06pm

re: #95 b_sharp

Porn is real but it doesn’t represent a realistic sexual relationship - it’s an act.

what is porn?

102 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:20:29pm

re: #99 Alexzander

Unless its an honest sex tape! Ohh yeah. lulz.

I know I fake it every time I get on camera. My wife on the other hand…

103 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:21:34pm

re: #96 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Because the only other conclusion I can come to if he’s not running for office again is he’s beginning to go senile.

recalling the past and giving an opinion is senile?

104 Lidane  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:22:23pm

re: #98 talon_262

Now I know McCain is off his rocker…either that or the GOP is leaning on him in an attempt to prep the rest of the party establishment for the inevitable TP/RWNJ VP candidate to “balance” a likely Romney nom.

I’m thinking it’s a pre-emptive move for an inevitable Romney nomination.

105 andres  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:22:39pm

re: #84 Lidane

Denial is a hell of a drug:

John McCain: Choosing Sarah Palin In 2008 ‘The Best Decision I’ve Ever Made’

I concur with McCain for one: I mean, we got Obama thanks to that1. I can’t hardly argue with that…

Wait, he means it was the best decision for him?

——
1 Granted, that’s a gross oversimplification, but it did help.

106 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:22:40pm

re: #103 albusteve

recalling the past and giving an opinion is senile?

The opinion being “greatest decision he ever made”? You’re right, I could add “very short memory recall” to the list of potentials.

107 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:22:58pm

re: #103 albusteve

recalling the past and giving an opinion is senile?

No, but pining for an inaccurate memory might be.

108 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:23:37pm

re: #106 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The opinion being “greatest decision he ever made”? You’re right, I could add “very short memory recall” to the list of potentials.

go ahead…your need to attack cannot be satiated

109 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:26:22pm

re: #102 b_sharp

I know I fake it every time I get on camera. My wife on the other hand…

I’m going to post a page where we can all submit our sex tapes. I expect everyone to contribute; its for the good of the party/LGF.

Once we have enough, we can compile them all on a DVD and sell them as Reality Bites 2. Garantee it will sell better than the first.

110 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:26:24pm

are there any asshole, lying, stealing, cheating, self indulgent, senile liberals?…no?…quite remarkable

111 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:26:40pm

re: #103 albusteve

recalling the past and giving an opinion is senile?

I think McCain is either being overly nostalgic or disingenuous about this.

112 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:27:30pm

re: #100 aagcobb

I don’t think that’s accurate. They’re not born, then naturalized. They’re born citizens.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:27:44pm

re: #93 Alexzander

Anyone watching CNN right now?

Well, I am now.

What?

114 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:27:45pm

re: #111 talon_262

I think McCain is either being overly nostalgic or disingenuous about this.

so what?…let the old fuck say what he wants, big whoop

115 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:28:10pm

re: #109 Alexzander

I’m going to post a page where we can all submit our sex tapes. I expect everyone to contribute; its for the good of the party/LGF.

Once we have enough, we can compile them all on a DVD and sell them as Reality Bites 2. Garantee it will sell better than the first.

Don’t forget about the BOW CHICKA WOW WOW…

///

116 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:28:26pm

re: #108 albusteve

go ahead…your need to attack cannot be satiated

Am I making you uncomfortable by taking issue with McCain characterizing his bringing Palin on the ‘08 GOP ticket as the “greatest decision he’s ever made”?

117 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:29:14pm

re: #110 albusteve

are there any asshole, lying, stealing, cheating, self indulgent, senile liberals?…no?…quite remarkable

Many.

But their existence doesn’t change McCain.

118 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:29:45pm

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I am now.

What?

They just announced that Glenn Beck is getting into the Republican race, with Sarah Palin as his already promised VP.
//
It was just a readout of the votes from one district which showed an incredibly poor showing for Perry and a second place for Huntsman.

119 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:29:48pm

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Am I making you uncomfortable by taking issue with McCain characterizing his bringing Palin on the ‘08 GOP ticket as the “greatest decision he’s ever made”?

ah, no
thanks for the chuckle tho

120 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:30:21pm

re: #115 talon_262

Don’t forget about the BOW CHICKA WOW WOW…

///

Charles can do the soundtrack. All guitar solos.

121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:30:38pm

re: #118 Alexzander

They just announced that Glenn Beck is getting into the Republican race, with Sarah Palin as his already promised VP.
//
It was just a readout of the votes from one district which showed an incredibly poor showing for Perry and a second place for Huntsman.

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin? I’d buy that for a dollar.

122 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:30:45pm

re: #119 albusteve

ah, no
thanks for the chuckle tho

No problem.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:30:58pm

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sarah helped his ticket. Did not hurt his ticket. It was a good decision. He was going to get his ass kicked, but she added energy to his campaign.

We’ve had four years of hindsight… she would’ve been a trainwreck. But we only know that now.

124 BongCrodny  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:31:34pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Frankly, why Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are not one state is a mystery to me.

Hey, we’re nearly as big as the other five New England states put together.

And it’s “Ayuh,” not “A-yup.”

“A-yup” is someone who lives in Bahston.

125 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:32:02pm

re: #120 Alexzander

Charles can do the soundtrack. All guitar solos.

that would be cool…I can’t wait for his mom to release her home vids of Charles slaying Japan

126 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:32:44pm

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Am I making you uncomfortable by taking issue with McCain characterizing his bringing Palin on the ‘08 GOP ticket as the “greatest decision he’s ever made”?

Call me a cynic, but if McCain was playing to win in ‘08, then he (and the party muckety-mucks) hung a huge millstone around his neck in the form of Palin. Retrospectively, how can anyone in their right mind seriously believe that having Palin on the ticket was his best decision, unless there’s ulterior motives at work?

127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:33:03pm

re: #125 albusteve

that would be cool…I can’t wait for his mom to release her home vids of Charles slaying Japan

Charles is Godzilla?

Who knew?

128 BongCrodny  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:33:45pm

re: #84 Lidane

Denial is a hell of a drug:

John McCain: Choosing Sarah Palin In 2008 ‘The Best Decision I’ve Ever Made’

Assuming he *didn’t* want to be President, then, yes.

129 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:33:55pm

re: #127 b_sharp

Charles is Godzilla?

Who knew?

armed with a Strat…
maybe not

130 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:34:16pm

I appreciate re: #127 b_sharp

Charles is Godzilla?

Who knew?

This was my first thought too. I’m quite confused.

I guess it really explains the lizards thing though.

131 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:34:34pm

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sarah helped his ticket. Did not hurt his ticket. It was a good decision. He was going to get his ass kicked, but she added energy to his campaign.

She overshadowed him, which would have been good had she been a competent candidate who could demonstrate at least a functioning grip on reality. Instead, she was an empty-headed twit whose only appeal was that she looked good in front of the cameras. The GOP’s efforts to portray as anything other than what she was were so transparent that it was embarrassing.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:35:09pm

re: #69 b_sharp

Porn is not a good place to learn a woman’s place in a sexual relationship, and porn sites could introduce all kinds of malware to my network.

I need to have a heart to heart with him I think.

Yes. Explain to him what’s on your mind, and tell him what you need him to know. Malware, respect for women and all.

Then, bear patiently in mind that he’s fifteen, and…well…’curious’ is the word I’m going to use, bearing in mind that he’s your grandson.

133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:35:18pm

re: #124 BongCrodny

Hey, we’re nearly as big as the other five New England states put together.

Oh, sure. Maine is gigantic. You’re up to what, a half a person per square mile?
/

134 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:35:26pm

re: #130 Alexzander

I appreciate

This was my first thought too. I’m quite confused.

I guess it really explains the lizards thing though.

Charles has a history

135 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:36:07pm

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sarah helped his ticket. Did not hurt his ticket. It was a good decision. He was going to get his ass kicked, but she added energy to his campaign.

We’ve had four years of hindsight… she would’ve been a trainwreck. But we only know that now.

I will agree that Palin did pump some life into an otherwise staid McCain campaign; hell, I even bought into it at the time. But, as they say, hindsight is 20/20 and looking back, Palin was and is 10 pounds of crazy in a five-pound bag.

136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:36:28pm

re: #131 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It’s easy in retrospect.

137 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:37:31pm

re: #130 Alexzander

I appreciate

This was my first thought too. I’m quite confused.

I guess it really explains the lizards thing though.

Charles was first a pro guitarist wielding a jazz Strat.

138 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:38:00pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Explain to him what’s on your mind, and tell him what you need him to know. Malware, respect for women and all.

Then, bear patiently in mind that he’s fifteen, and…well…’curious’ is the word I’m going to use, bearing in mind that he’s your grandson.

You’re always so reasonable and balanced when it comes to advise.

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:38:14pm

re: #61 b_sharp

OT.

I caught my 15yo grandson surfing the porn sites yesterday and I blew up at him. I’m afraid I acted stupidly.

I was drawing my own at 15 :D God only knows what my parents would have thought

140 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:38:53pm

re: #136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It’s easy in retrospect.

In retrospect? FBV, I went to bat for McCain back in ‘08, I made the excuses and used the talking points. And even back then, I watched with dawning horror as the women who’d looked all pretty dolled up at the convention slowly revealed herself as dumber than a post. She did wonders for his campaign…before she opened her mouth. After that, it was turtles the whole way down.

141 erik_t  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:39:10pm

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sarah helped his ticket. Did not hurt his ticket. It was a good decision. He was going to get his ass kicked, but she added energy to his campaign.

We’ve had four years of hindsight… she would’ve been a trainwreck. But we only know that now.

I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I was pretty damned certain in 2008 that Sarah Palin would have been a travishamockery of a disaster of a (vice) president.

142 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:39:22pm

re: #112 Obdicut

I don’t think that’s accurate. They’re not born, then naturalized. They’re born citizens.

That was what I thought as well, until I read Wong Kim Ark carefully. In his opinion, Justice Gray stated:

Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization. A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, or by enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts.

143 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:40:40pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Explain to him what’s on your mind, and tell him what you need him to know. Malware, respect for women and all.

Then, bear patiently in mind that he’s fifteen, and…well…’curious’ is the word I’m going to use, bearing in mind that he’s your grandson.

I won’t offer too much parenting advice but learning to hide your porn is a skill every man has to learn. We never outgrow the “curiosity”, we just learn to hide it better.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:41:25pm

re: #142 aagcobb

That was what I thought as well, until I read Wong Kim Ark carefully. In his opinion, Justice Gray stated:

Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization. A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, or by enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts.

Now, children of citizens born abroad ARE citizens. So is the judge saying that these people are not ‘natural born’, since they are ‘naturalized’ by authority of Congress saying that they are citizens?

Confused.

145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:41:31pm

re: #140 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I know. I don’t disagree.

I just knew that if the energy of the campaign was reduced to percentages it was Sarah 90% McCain 10%.

It was well after the election before I thought “Holy shit! What were we thinking!!?!”

I was ignoring the obvious; but I wasn’t alone.

146 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:41:35pm

re: #142 aagcobb

Okay, still don’t see where that is defining natural born, though.

147 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:42:03pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

I won’t offer too much parenting advice but learning to hide your porn is a skill every man has to learn. We never outgrow the “curiosity”, we just learn to hide it better.

Bada bing, bada boom.

148 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:42:17pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

I won’t offer too much parenting advice but learning to hide your porn is a skill every man has to learn. We never outgrow the “curiosity”, we just learn to hide it better.

I gave him free reign of the Internet.

149 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:42:41pm

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization. A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, or by enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts.

Now, children of citizens born abroad ARE citizens. So is the judge saying that these people are not ‘natural born’, since they are ‘naturalized’ by authority of Congress saying that they are citizens?

Confused.

I was born out of country as a US citizen. I’m pretty sure I cannot become president.

150 albusteve  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:43:20pm

re: #148 b_sharp

I gave him free reign of the Internet.

now you’re all whet?

151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:43:39pm

re: #148 b_sharp

I gave him free reign of the Internet.

Look over his should and say, “Yeah. I’ve done that.”

He’ll tire quickly.
/

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:44:27pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

I won’t offer too much parenting advice but learning to hide your porn is a skill every man has to learn. We never outgrow the “curiosity”, we just learn to hide it better.

The wages of not covering your tracks is a heart-to-heart with an adult in your life about malware and realistic healthy depictions of sexuality.

153 Sionainn  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:45:05pm

re: #142 aagcobb

That was what I thought as well, until I read Wong Kim Ark carefully. In his opinion, Justice Gray stated: …by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, …

It’s in this law.

154 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:45:12pm

re: #149 Alexzander

I was born out of country as a US citizen. I’m pretty sure I cannot become president.

I’m pretty sure you can.

155 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:45:20pm

re: #145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know. I don’t disagree.

I just knew that if the energy of the campaign was reduced to percentages it was Sarah 90% McCain 10%.

It was well after the election before I thought “Holy shit! What were we thinking!!?!”

But I was ignoring the obvious; but I wasn’t alone.

If I beat myself up over anything, it’s looking back at myself, witnessing the institutional rot that was going on with the GOP, and making excuses rather than breaking ties.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:45:36pm

re: #149 Alexzander

I was born out of country as a US citizen. I’m pretty sure I cannot become president.

Well, that’s just plain stupid.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:47:34pm

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Look over his should and say, “Yeah. I’ve done that.”

He’ll tire quickly.
/

Most hilarious story online about ‘catching’ your child on the computer EVER.

158 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:47:35pm

re: #154 Obdicut

I’m pretty sure you can.

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that’s just plain stupid.

To be honest, I’ve never been entirely clear on the issue either.

From what I can recall, I thought there were two issues.
1) Natural Born = born on US soil
2) Dual/tri-citizenship. I think I’d have to renounce other citizenships to gain the necessary security clearances. I’d be very surprised if Romney has Mexican citizenship.

159 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:48:12pm

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #146 Obdicut

Children of US citizens born abroad are citizens by an act of Congress. The Constitution gives Congress the power of naturalization, thus such children are naturalized citizens. “Natural born” is an ancient term from English common law, and it applies only to children born within US territory, with very limited exceptions. Justice Gray’s opinion explains it all in great detail, if you have the patience to read a 19th Century legal opinion.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:48:22pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

Most hilarious story online about ‘catching’ your child on the computer EVER.

Right, I’m a parent, but I’ve been looking forward to him hitting the internet red light district for years, because I see no reason not to greet the inevitable with the joy of finding new and exciting ways to make fun of him. I want to say this is like, a parenting strategy, but mostly, I just enjoy the twitching and recoding normal words for him into moments of horror because that’s just fun.

It was definitely youtube, and he was definitely watching with intent, so I assumed—as one does—this would be a The Moment He Got Caught Watching Internet Porn and it was like Christmas. Because that’s ammunition for years. Especially if it’s like, bad.

Then I saw the screen.

161 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:48:33pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that’s just plain stupid.

Don’t think it’s true. There’s no distinction ever made for any other reason between circumstances of birth.

And US citizenship is both jus solis and jus sanguinis.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:49:02pm

re: #159 aagcobb

re: #146 Obdicut

Children of US citizens born abroad are citizens by an act of Congress. The Constitution gives Congress the power of naturalization, thus such children are naturalized citizens. “Natural born” is an ancient term from English common law, and it applies only to children born within US territory, with very limited exceptions. Justice Gray’s opinion explains it all in great detail, if you have the patience to read a 19th Century legal opinion.

Does, say, Puerto Rico count?

163 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:49:08pm

re: #158 Alexzander

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

To be honest, I’ve never been entirely clear on the issue either.

From what I can recall, I thought there were two issues.
1) Natural Born = born on US soil

No. That’s a birther claim that I’ve never seen any support for.

2) Dual/tri-citizenship. I think I’d have to renounce other citizenships to gain the necessary security clearances. I’d be very surprised if Romney has Mexican citizenship.

Sure, probably.

164 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:50:39pm

re: #148 b_sharp

I gave him free reign of the Internet.

Maybe one of these products..

165 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:51:15pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

Does, say, Puerto Rico count?

Puerto Rico is US territory, and Puerto Ricans are US citizens, so yes, they are “natural born” citizens.

166 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:51:32pm

re: #159 aagcobb

I’m sorry, but this idea of natural born meaning that is something I’ve only seen claimed by birthers. Lots of terms changed slightly in meaning between English common law and US, and since our citizenship rules are different from theirs, there is no reason to think that we’d be using their common law definition.

167 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:53:46pm

re: #165 aagcobb

You’re basing all of this on your reading of this law, or what?

The Congressional Research Service has stated that the weight of scholarly legal and historical opinion indicates that the term means one who is entitled under the Constitution or laws of the United States to U.S. citizenship “at birth” or “by birth,” including any child born “in” the United States (other than to foreign diplomats serving their country), the children of United States citizens born abroad, and those born abroad of one citizen parent who has met U.S. residency requirements.

en.wikipedia.org

168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 4:58:33pm

Oh gosh! Drudge has a vote poll on right now.

RON PAUL!

169 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:00:00pm

re: #167 Obdicut

You’re basing all of this on your reading of this law, or what?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

No, I’m basing it on the Supreme Court Opinion in US v. Wong Kim Ark. I’m not asking anyone to take my word for it; just read the opinion for yourself. Justice Gray went to great lengths to establish what “natural born” meant at common law, and to establish that the common law definition was adopted for the US Constitution.

170 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:00:16pm

re: #168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh gosh! Drudge has a vote poll on right now.

RON PAUL!

Aoooooohh Yeah!

171 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:00:24pm

re: #164 Amory Blaine

Maybe one of these products..

He has a box of Kleenex.

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:00:27pm

I heard that candidates are courting Tim Tebow.

They need to re-think it. Do they want to get only 31.6% of the vote?

173 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:00:38pm

re: #168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh gosh! Drudge has a vote poll on right now.

RON PAUL!

Freep it! Anti-war Ron Paul winning at the former hang out for pro-Iraq War Americans. Now with Ron Paul and Prisonplanet! Woot! The derpiness grows.

174 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:02:22pm

re: #173 Gus 802

Freep it! Anti-war Ron Paul winning at the former hang out for pro-Iraq War Americans. Now with Ron Paul and Prisonplanet! Woot! The derpiness grows.

The derpiness will continue to grow until December 21 when it will cross the rubicon.

175 BongCrodny  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:02:33pm

re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, sure. Maine is gigantic. You’re up to what, a half a person per square mile?
/

We have more people than New Hampshire or Vermont.

However, we do have roughly one moose per square mile.

176 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:03:12pm

re: #174 Alexzander

The derpiness will continue to grow until December 21 when it will cross the rubicon.

Is that when we all die?

Hey. If it’s a Mayan Apocalypse does that mean no rapture?

//

177 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:03:20pm

re: #175 BongCrodny

We have more people than New Hampshire or Vermont.

However, we do have roughly one moose per square mile.

Used to live near you in Nova Scotia.

178 jaunte  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:05:20pm

Remember the New Year’s predictions? littlegreenfootballs.com

It just took 11 days for this one to happen:

The market for orange juice futures received another jolt after the federal government said some Brazilian imports contained a potentially harmful fungicide.
online.wsj.com

179 LWNJ  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:06:14pm

re: #159 aagcobb

John McCain was born in the Canal Zone. John McCain ran for president. I believe some loony (far-right or far-left?) questioned his right to do so, but no-one else did.

180 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:06:19pm

re: #178 jaunte

Remember the New Year’s predictions way back on Dec. 31?

It just took 11 days for this one to happen:

Retroactive upding is in order.

181 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:07:24pm

Hiya Lizards!
2008 VP selections were made by world events.. Let’s go back in the time machine..
When it was time for Obama to pick a VP ( pre 2008 meltdown)there was some serious foreign policy shit going down with Georgia and Russia..The Dems wanted a ticket with somebody with heavy duty creds in Foreign policy and Biden was selected…
when McCain was selecting a VP.. Hillary had lost to Obama and there was a ton of PUMA anger out there…They thought the act of selecting a woman..any woman would take away tons of votes from Obama..

182 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:08:32pm

re: #179 C1nnabar

John McCain was born in the Canal Zone. John McCain ran for president. I believe some loony (far-right or far-left?) questioned his right to do so, but no-one else did.

According to wikipedia, the Panama Canal Zone was an unorganized US territory. Thus John McCain was born in US territory entitling him to US citizenship.

183 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:14:26pm

re: #169 aagcobb

No, I’m basing it on the Supreme Court Opinion in US v. Wong Kim Ark. I’m not asking anyone to take my word for it; just read the opinion for yourself. Justice Gray went to great lengths to establish what “natural born” meant at common law, and to establish that the common law definition was adopted for the US Constitution.

Yeah, I’ve read it, and I disagree with your interpretation of the decision. I agree with the Congressional Research Service.

From the decision:

The common law principle of allegiance was the law of all the States at the time of the Revolution and at the adoption of the Constitution, and, by that principle, the citizens o the United States are, with the exceptions before mentioned,

(namely, foreign-born children of citizens, under statutes to be presently referred to)

such only as are either born or made so, born within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States or naturalized by the authority of law, either in one of the States before the Constitution or, since that time, by virtue of an act of the Congress of the United States.

and:

whose fathers were or shall be natural-born subjects of the Crown of England, or of Great Britain, at the time of the birth of such children respectively … . shall be deemed, adjudged and taken to be natural-born subjects of this kingdom, to all intents, constructions and purposes whatsoever.

So that’s clearly a time when British law had foreign-born children as’natural born’ subjects of the UK.

And, most tellingly:

In the act of 1790, the provision as to foreign-born children of American citizens was as follows:

The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been [p673] resident in the United States.

1 Stat. 104. In 1795, this was reenacted in the same words, except in substituting for the words “beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States” the words “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” 1 Stat. 415.

That case was not concerned with deciding the matter as it applied to foreign-born citizens of the US, anyway.

184 LWNJ  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:18:27pm

re: #182 aagcobb

Oops, you’re right. I thought it went back to the Panamanians (de jure, not de facto) before the big fooferaw about returning it.

(According to The Fount of Wisdom — wikipedia, the question of whether someone born outside the US to US citizens is eligible to run for president has never been considered by the Supreme Court.)

185 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 5:24:55pm

re: #183 Obdicut

I don’t think you are interpreting Justice Gray’s opinion correctly, but its not terribly important, so I’ll just agree to disagree.


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