Romney’s Foreign Policy Stance In Shambles?

Even his advisers are trying to figure out just what he’s trying to say and do…
Politics • Views: 39,005

Where does GOP presumptive nominee Mitt Romney stand on foreign policy? That’s a question that even his advisers are asking. He went and said that we shouldn’t negotiate with the Taliban and that we should defeat the Taliban, even as many of his advisers and supporters are looking at a negotiated end to the fighting in Afghanistan — a political settlement.

Set aside for the moment that many of Mr. Romney’s supporters and foreign policy advisers argue that after a decade at war, the only option is a political settlement, which means talking to some elements of the Taliban. Stephen Hadley, the former national security adviser to George W. Bush, has argued this ‘would not — as some have suggested — constitute ‘surrender’ to America’s enemies.’ A co-chairman of Mr. Romney’s working group on Afghanistan and Pakistan, James Shinn, who also served Mr. Bush, was co-author of perhaps the best single unclassified document on the complexities of those negotiations, entitled ‘Afghan Peace Talks: A Primer.’ It argued that a negotiated deal would ‘obviously be desirable’ if elements of the Taliban could be persuaded to renounce violence and take ‘some role in Afghan governance short of total control.’

It was just one example of what Mr. Romney’s advisers call a perplexing pattern: Dozens of subtle position papers flow through the candidate’s policy shop and yet seem to have little influence on Mr. Romney’s hawkish-sounding pronouncements, on everything from war to nuclear proliferation to the trade-offs in dealing with China. In the Afghanistan case, ‘none of us could quite figure out what he was advocating,’ one of Mr. Romney’s advisers said. He insisted on anonymity — as did a half-dozen others interviewed over the past two weeks — because the Romney campaign has banned any discussion of the process by which the candidate formulates his positions.

‘It begged the obvious question,’ the adviser added. ‘Do we stay another decade? How many forces, and how long, does that take? Do we really want to go into the general election telling Americans that we should stay a few more years to eradicate the whole Taliban movement?’ In phase one of a long presidential campaign, Mr. Romney could duck those questions: the spotlight moved to the wisdom of the economic stimulus and the auto-industry bailout, contraception and, now, same-sex marriage and high school bullying.

It’s one thing to sound tough and make definitive statements that somehow distinguish oneself from the President and his foreign policy positions. It’s quite another to find that those positions don’t even hold up to closer scrutiny within the party, let alone in the general election campaign.

Some of this is ongoing fallout from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and trying to figure out the direction for American foreign policy in coming years — assessing threats, how and where to use military power and other foreign policy efforts to achieve strategic and tactical interests for the US and its allies, and how to reconcile competing interests in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The ongoing row over Iran’s nuclear ambitions is a case in point. Romney wants people to believe that if President Obama is reelected Iran will have a nuclear weapon, but if Romney’s elected they will be thwarted. That flies in the face of the evidence that shows Iran will continue working towards nuclear weapons regardless of who is in the White House, and that unless there’s concerted military action against multiple targets within Iran, there’s not much the US or anyone else could do to stop Iranian nuclear ambitions.

Sanctions can only do so much, and once you shine a light on Romney’s actual policy choices on Iran, there’s not much there there. His silence and ambiguity on the subject masks the fact that the US faces a situation with no good outcomes and few positive alternatives.

Negotiations and working with the EU and Russia will have to continue, and a multilateral position may not keep Iran from going nuclear, but it will make taking action down the line easier than if the US takes the unilateral approach.

Thus, he’s left with trying to claim that he’ll somehow do things differently without actually saying what his different actions would be.

Jump to bottom

182 comments
1 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:27:34pm

One of the biggest reason I left the GOP is they don't have any real policy on anything except for "Obama is bad" and "Screw the rest of you guys, we got ours"

2 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:27:37pm

Seriously doubt if Romney really cares much at all about most foreign policy. It's never been his thing, and it's not the kind of thing that would have made him millions of dollars, which is something over which he has demonstrated concern.

3 shutdown  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:28:54pm

Ultimately, isn't that the base line for the entire GOP message? "Not What the President Says" is the entirety of their message and strategy.

4 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:29:49pm

Mitt's foreign policy plan would be to borrow money from China so we could buy out the Iranian nuclear program and sell it piecemeal to private investors.

5 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:33:29pm
"Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe."

What in the hell was he thinking when he said that? Jesus Christ, that's fucking just so insane and irresponsible. He's a goddamned fossil locked in a Cold War mindset.

6 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:34:39pm

re: #5 goddamnedfrank

What in the hell was he thinking when he said that? Jesus Christ, that's fucking just so insane and irresponsible. He's a goddamned fossil locked in a Cold War mindset.

No shit. Last I checked, it hadn't been 1979 for at least a decade. The man's basically become a cardboard cut-out of Reagan.

7 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:35:39pm

re: #5 goddamnedfrank

What in the hell was he thinking when he said that? Jesus Christ, that's fucking just so insane and irresponsible. He's a goddamned fossil locked in a Cold War mindset.

Romney is like a dry drunk. To be fair I'm thinking more in the line of a couple of glasses of wine "drunk." Naturally tipsy.

8 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:36:57pm

Romney Adviser: Mitt ‘Doesn’t Want To Really Engage’ On Foreign Policy Issues Until He’s President

The New York Times published two articles this weekend highlighting the disarray that is Mitt Romney’s foreign policy positions. Romney not only appears “out of touch,” for example, on his Russia policy and “all over the map” on the war in Afghanistan, but also, the former Massachusetts governor has demonstrated a “perplexing pattern,” the Times reported, of being at odds with many of his own foreign policy advisers.

Moreover, seeming to concede President Obama’s dominance of national security issues this campaign season, a Romney adviser told the Times that Romney isn’t interested in talking about foreign policy. “Romney doesn’t want to really engage these issues until he is in office,” the adviser said.

And there’s good reason. Romney’s inexperience on foreign policy and national security issues has dogged his campaign with confusion, ignorance and private and public disagreements

9 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:38:50pm

re: #8 Kragar

Romney Adviser: Mitt ‘Doesn’t Want To Really Engage’ On Foreign Policy Issues Until He’s President

Not surprising, Romney doesn't really want to "engage" on much of anything, other than that he's "Not-Obama" and that he's a rich prick who's not afraid to admit it.

10 erik_t  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:41:24pm

Well, hasn't the sole cohesive post-cold-war Republican foreign policy stance been 'The Democrats are weak on foreign policy!'

I'm not sure this is as new as we think. Romney is just worse at hiding it, and Obama has more obvious foreign policy credentials than Democrats usually do.

11 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:41:27pm
12 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:42:20pm

re: #11 Kragar

Romney Will Increase Military Spending By $2.1 Trillion With No Plan To Pay For It

We have all ways been at war with Eastasia.

Fiscal Responsibility!

13 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:43:02pm

re: #11 Kragar

Romney Will Increase Military Spending By $2.1 Trillion With No Plan To Pay For It

We have all ways been at war with Eastasia.

The Spaniards are the greatest threat to the republic!

14 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:43:26pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

WE NEED MORE PLANES OUR PILOTS REFUSE TO FLY TO KEEP US SAFE FROM SOVIET RUSSIA!!!

15 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:44:37pm

Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain!
-- Mitt Romney

16 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:46:09pm

This is why we can't have nice things.

17 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:46:34pm

re: #15 Gus

Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain!
-- Mitt Romney

Romney promises to invade England to repay the sacking of Washington DC during the War of 1812.

18 blueraven  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:48:46pm

I know the economy will be the defining issue in this election. But for me, foreign policy is the issue that carries my vote.
The economy will probably do what it will do (to a large extent) no matter who is President, but foreign policy decisions will be with us for decades.

Romney, seemingly, has no comprehensive or competent world view, and that is scary

19 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:50:17pm

re: #18 blueraven

I know the economy will be the defining issue in this election. But for me, foreign policy is the issue that carries my vote.
The economy will probably do what it will do (to a large extent) no matter who is President, but foreign policy decisions will be with us for decades.

Romney, seemingly, has no comprehensive or competent world view, and that is scary

If it can be bought, buy it.
If it can't be bought, nuke it.
//

20 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:50:57pm

re: #18 blueraven

I know the economy will be the defining issue in this election. But for me, foreign policy is the issue that carries my vote.
The economy will probably do what it will do (to a large extent) no matter who is President, but foreign policy decisions will be with us for decades.

Romney, seemingly, has no comprehensive or competent world view, and that is scary

Romney is somewhere in between McCain and Palin on foreign policy. He does get that deer in the headlights look when he's talking about it. Invariably, all that comes out is essentially hostile rhetoric. Romney confuses the Pentagon with the State Department. Foreign policy is primarily the latter.

21 Mich-again  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:51:34pm
22 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:52:53pm

Romney's foreign policy ideas consist solely restating what Obama is currently doing except he is totally sure he would do it better without ever stating how he would do it better.

23 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:54:10pm

re: #21 Mich-again

Another example of the new GOP strategy.. Mitt on Mute.

I'm a little skeptical about this considering he has John Bolton as foreign policy adviser. It's probably more a case if him not wanting to make his Boltonesque pronouncements made known to the American public. Essentially we're looking at the potential for GWB II on steroids.

24 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:55:30pm

re: #18 blueraven

I know the economy will be the defining issue in this election. But for me, foreign policy is the issue that carries my vote.
The economy will probably do what it will do (to a large extent) no matter who is President, but foreign policy decisions will be with us for decades.

Romney, seemingly, has no comprehensive or competent world view, and that is scary

Romney's approach to the economy is "I'm the second-coming of Ron Reagan." More tax cuts, more deregulation, more defense spending, and more military adventurism. How is it paid for? Bleeding the poor and middle class white.

25 blueraven  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:57:19pm

re: #23 Gus

I'm a little skeptical about this considering he has John Bolton as foreign policy adviser. It's probably more a case if him not wanting to make his Boltonesque pronouncements made known to the American public. Essentially we're looking at the potential for GWB II on steroids.

Exactly, if he has no real philosophy of his own, it would be all too easy to adopt the crazed ideology of John Bolton.

26 blueraven  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:58:19pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

Romney's approach to the economy is "I'm the second-coming of Ron Reagan." More tax cuts, more deregulation, more defense spending, and more military adventurism. How is it paid for? Bleeding the poor and middle class white.

Oh I agree, it would be bad, but likely not destroy us.

27 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:59:02pm

Infamous Scammer’s Identity Remains A Mystery

On the last day of April, after a nationwide search that lasted almost two years, law enforcement officials from Ohio finally nabbed “Bobby Thompson,” one of America’s most-wanted fugitives, a man suspected of stealing millions from the U.S. Navy Veterans Association, a charity whose stated mission was to help veterans and members of the U.S. armed forces. But even now that he’s behind bars, awaiting trial on a host of charges, no one knows who Bobby Thompson really is.

From the early 2000s until 2010, Thompson — an alias — and at least one other associate took in almost $100 million in donations from people in forty-one states for the U.S. Navy Veterans Association, which was a sham organization. Along the way, Thompson attended fundraisers and meet-and-greets where he stood shoulder to shoulder and took photographs with the most powerful Republican politicians in the country, including President George W. Bush, then-House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). Thompson also gave generously to the campaigns of several Republican political candidates, like Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), who later gave the donations away to real charities. (There’s no indication they knew they were getting money from a conman.)

Authorities believe little, if any, of the money given to the U.S. Navy Veterans Association ever actually benefited veterans or service members. In June 2010, after learning that he was the subject of a criminal investigation, Thompson vanished. Two months later, he was charged in Ohio with various fraud-related offenses. (An associate, Blanca Contreras, plead guilty in June 2011 and is currently serving a five-year sentence.) Thompson changed his appearance and lived under several assumed names — including Anderson Yazzie, Alan Reace Lacy, Kenneth D. Morsette, and Dale Anderson Booqua — during his time on the run. He was ultimately tracked down in Portland, Oregon following the formation, last November, of a task force led by U.S. Marshal Pete Elliott, which chased leads in states including Massachusetts, Arizona, New Mexico, Rhode Island, West Virginia, and Florida. Late on the night of April 30, Thompson was arrested outside his residence on 72nd St. NE in Portland. According to the U.S. Marshals, Thompson was in possession of several false American and Canadian IDs at the time. (It also should be noted that he was busted by Ohio authorities while wearing a University of Michigan sweatshirt.) A subsequent search of a nearby storage facility rented under one of Thompson’s other fake names turned up several birth certificates and nearly one million dollars in cash.

Officials say Thompson, now apparently in his 60s, was in “poor physical condition” and walking with a cane when he was arrested. But any physical frailty hasn’t made him any more willing to give up his real name.

28 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:59:08pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

Romney's approach to the economy is "I'm the second-coming of Ron Reagan." More tax cuts, more deregulation, more defense spending, and more military adventurism. How is it paid for? Bleeding the poor and middle class white.

Cold war redux: ABMs; Star Wars rehash etc.

29 Mich-again  Mon, May 14, 2012 2:59:14pm

re: #23 Gus

Essentially we're looking at the potential for GWB II on steroids.

stick in the spokes time.. We don't have the cash for that and no Republican would ever dream of promoting higher taxes to pay for it.

30 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:01:40pm

By 2016 Cambodia are belong to us!!

//

31 mr.fusion  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:03:19pm

Here's Mitt's foreign policy:

Obama gallivants around the world apologizing for America

I won't do that. I love America

The end

32 garhighway  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:03:58pm

re: #31 mr.fusion

Here's Mitt's foreign policy:

Obama gallivants around the world apologizing for America

I won't do that. I love America

The end

Plus he'd be willing to go to war to secure America's supply of whatever it is that he puts on his hair.

33 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:04:07pm

re: #28 Gus

Cold war redux: ABMs; Star Wars rehash etc.

NO MORE STAR WARS REMAKES!

34 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:05:05pm
35 Achilles Tang  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:05:34pm
He went and said that we shouldn’t negotiate with the Taliban and that we should defeat the Taliban,

Hell, the Taliban believe in the same imaginary god as he does, don't they?

The only difference is that the Taliban don't have a constitution that they can amend.

I mean, it's not as if he would negotiate with atheists./

36 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:05:55pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

Romney's approach to the economy is "I'm the second-coming of Ron Reagan." More tax cuts, more deregulation, more defense spending, and more military adventurism. How is it paid for? Bleeding the poor and middle class white.

...and keeping them white as much as possible to please the racist nutjob base.
//

37 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:06:09pm

Romney donor pulls support, backs Obama, over same-sex marriage

Hmmm... buyer's remorse is best served fresh.

38 Mich-again  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:06:16pm

re: #31 mr.fusion

What is your foreign policy Mitt?
Didn't I already tell you?
No.
Well then it must not be your damn business!

39 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:06:23pm

re: #33 Kragar

NO MORE STAR WARS REMAKES!

I promise that, upon my election, I will direct the DoJ to use whatever legal trickery necessary to seize control of the Star Wars franchise, have George Lucas jailed for the prequels and subsequent "revisions" to the original trilogy, and have any person who utters the word "midichlorians" burned at the stake.

///

40 garhighway  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:07:35pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

I promise that, upon my election, I will direct the DoJ to use whatever legal trickery necessary to seize control of the Star Wars franchise, have George Lucas jailed for the prequels and subsequent "revisions" to the original trilogy, and have any person who utters the word "midichlorians" burned at the stake.

///

That last part is just a little bit harsh.

41 Randall Gross  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:08:00pm

OT: just got around to noticing that Peter Hadfield stopped by my blog, and I am honored to have had him comment there. He's debating with a moderator from "Watt's up With That" blog, and the moderator seems to have a problem with my "Support Israel" page. I've asked for specifics, but I don't expect him to provide any.

42 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:08:04pm

re: #34 Gus

Pathetic:

Republicans Order Navy to Quit Buying Biofuels

What next, ordering the Ford class scrapped in favor of the George W. Bush class of oil-powered carriers?

43 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:11:07pm

OT

Wut?

44 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:11:08pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

I promise that, upon my election, I will direct the DoJ to use whatever legal trickery necessary to seize control of the Star Wars franchise, have George Lucas jailed for the prequels and subsequent "revisions" to the original trilogy, and have any person who utters the word "midichlorians" burned at the stake.

///

Question: If Obi-Wan was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine, why was he still wearing Jedi robes after 20 years?

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:13:56pm

re: #44 Kragar

Question: If Obi-Wan was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine, why was he still wearing Jedi robes after 20 years?

allergic to local fibers

46 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:14:08pm

re: #44 Kragar

Question: If Obi-Wan was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine, why was he still wearing Jedi robes after 20 years?

Think the more pertinent one is how he named Yoda as his teacher, rather than that other guy who we speak not of after Episode One?

47 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:14:17pm

re: #43 Gus

OT

Wut?

[Embedded content]

Just a thought, but when engaging in a crime that relies on secrecy, it might not be the best idea to give yourself a name that states exactly what your crime is.

"Hey, its identitythiefJoe321! What are you up to tonight?"
"Not much NigerianPrinceScammmerTerry202. Hows it going with you?"

48 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:15:08pm

re: #47 Kragar

Just a thought, but when engaging in a crime that relies on secrecy, it might not be the best idea to give yourself a name that states exactly what your crime is.

"Hey, its identitythiefJoe321! What are you up to tonight?"
"Not much NigerianPrinceScammmerTerry202. Hows it going with you?"

@AlQaedaPublicRelationsOffice

49 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:19:08pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Think the more pertinent one is how he named Yoda as his teacher, rather than that other guy who we speak not of after Episode One?

Why in the new edition of Return of the Jedi was Obi-wan's ghost still the old version of him, but Anakin/Vader looked like he did when he was younger? Vader get the ghost botox or something?

50 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:22:15pm

re: #44 Kragar

Question: If Obi-Wan was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine, why was he still wearing Jedi robes after 20 years?

He wasn't. He just shopped at the Jawa "Big&Tall" shop.

51 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:22:16pm

re: #41 Randall Gross

WTFUWT is just two steps away from WND, and maybe only one.

52 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:22:23pm

re: #49 Kragar

Why in the new edition of Return of the Jedi was Obi-wan's ghost still the old version of him, but Anakin/Vader looked like he did when he was younger? Vader get the ghost botox or something?

Because nobody remembers who that Sebastian Shaw guy was anyway.

///

53 Mich-again  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:27:01pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

I'm still trying to figure out how a Muppet from Sesame Street landed such a big role in Episode 1.

54 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:30:49pm

I have another reason to dislike Prometheus even more.

Guillermo del Toro Says Prometheus May Have Already Eaten His Lunch; Cthulhu May Slumber a While Longer

After being asked about them in interviews, the director/producer/writer posted his observations on his message boards at DelToroFilms.com to make his thoughts clear:

Prometheus started filming a while ago – right at the time we were in preproduction on Pacific Rim. The title itself gave me pause- knowing that Alien was heavily influenced by Lovecraft and his novella.

This time, decades later with the budget and place Ridley Scott occupied, I assumed the greek metaphor alluded at the creation aspects of the H.P. Lovecraft book. I believe I am right and if so, as a fan, I am delighted to see a new Ridley Scott science fiction film, but this will probably mark a long pause – if not the demise – of At the Mountains of Madness.

55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:30:58pm

re: #49 Kragar

Why in the new edition of Return of the Jedi was Obi-wan's ghost still the old version of him, but Anakin/Vader looked like he did when he was younger? Vader get the ghost botox or something?

He'd look odd unless you got Force Ghost cybernetic parts as well, wouldn't he?

56 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:31:48pm

OT again. This is pretty funny.

Crossroads Generation, New GOP-Backed Super PAC, Aims To Attract Young Voters

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama counted on the support of younger voters four years ago. Now, a new Republican-leaning "super" political committee wants to bring them to the GOP's side.

Crossroads Generation, a new super PAC formed with the help of a handful of established GOP groups, is tapping into the economic frustrations of under-30 voters facing dim job prospects, crippling student loans or the prospect of having to move back home with their parents.

Starting Monday, the PAC is launching a $50,000 social media ad campaign targeting younger voters in eight swing states, including Ohio and Virginia. Their ultimate goal: woo younger Americans to the Republican side, including some who supported Obama in 2008.

"Younger voters aren't looking for a party label," said Kristen Soltis, who advises the new super PAC's communications. "They're looking for someone to present a solution for how things are going to get better."...

Gotta wonder who will do their bidding. Shall if be one of the conservative "hipsters" like near middle aged Michelle Malkin or Brooks Bain? Perhaps "Liberty Chick" or maybe Steven Crowder?

57 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:32:51pm

re: #56 Gus

OT again. This is pretty funny.

Crossroads Generation, New GOP-Backed Super PAC, Aims To Attract Young Voters

Gotta wonder who will do their bidding. Shall if be one of the conservative "hipsters" like near middle aged Michelle Malkin or Brooks Bain? Perhaps "Liberty Chick" or maybe Steven Crowder?

They just roll out a pile of dough and someone like Snooki will say whatever they want.

58 prairiefire  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:32:59pm

re: #54 Kragar

That's a cool blog:[Link: www.themarysue.com...]

59 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:33:48pm

re: #54 Kragar

I have another reason to dislike Prometheus even more.

Guillermo del Toro Says Prometheus May Have Already Eaten His Lunch; Cthulhu May Slumber a While Longer

Get in line, I've got a bone to pick with Cameron about putting the Battle Angel Alita live-action film on indefinite hold to milk the Avatar cashcow til its teats fall off.

60 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:37:45pm

re: #5 goddamnedfrank

He's a goddamned fossil locked in a Cold War mindset.

Which makes him a perfect representative of the GOP base.

61 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:39:17pm

re: #60 Lidane

Which makes him a perfect representative of the GOP base.

Which can't seem to get over the fact that Reagan's no longer eligible to be president on account of being dead.

62 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:40:03pm

re: #57 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

They just roll out a pile of dough and someone like Snooki will say whatever they want.

Here's Kristen:

[Link: therecoveringpolitician.com...]

63 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:41:14pm
64 Aye Pod  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:41:39pm
65 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:43:08pm

re: #64 Aye Pod

OT - Ron Paul runs out of money

Ron Paul to end 'active campaigning' for Republican nod

What, you mean the legions of internet fans and united coalition of potheads can't match the fundraising power of major corporations? Quelle surprise!

///

66 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:43:10pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

Which can't seem to get over the fact that Reagan's no longer eligible to be president on account of being dead.

Have him run for President from Chicago. No one will know the difference.

///

67 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:44:14pm

re: #66 Lidane

///

Zombie Reagan promises plenty of brains for undead voters!

///

68 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:44:28pm

re: #64 Aye Pod

OT - Ron Paul runs out of money

Ron Paul to end 'active campaigning' for Republican nod

The Paulbots are still intent on trolling the RNC, though. They're determined to "enforce the delegate rules" and try to force a real floor vote and/or floor fight for the nominee instead of just allowing a coronation for Mittens.

The remaining states will be hilarious to watch.

69 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:45:10pm

You can't 'splain that!


Petunias sprout through Tuscaloosa

70 Targetpractice  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:46:42pm

re: #68 Lidane

The Paulbots are still intent on trolling the RNC, though. They're determined to "enforce the delegate rules" and try to force a real floor vote and/or floor fight for the nominee instead of just allowing a coronation for Mittens.

The remaining states will be hilarious to watch.

Yeah, I don't think I've been a good enough boy so far this year to see a cage match on the floor of the GOP convention over who gets the nomination.

71 Aye Pod  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:47:12pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

What, you mean the legions of internet fans and united coalition of potheads can't match the fundraising power of major corporations? Quelle surprise!

///

"The anti-Ron Paul conspiracy has won" sobbed one fan. "Theres still Ayn though - I mean Rand"/

72 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:47:25pm

re: #69 freetoken

You can't 'splain that!

Petunias sprout through Tuscaloosa

Magnets.

73 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:51:37pm

I'm still freaked out about Easter Island.

74 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:53:31pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

Yeah, I don't think I've been a good enough boy so far this year to see a cage match on the floor of the GOP convention over who gets the nomination.

I don't think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster loves any of us enough to give us a floor fight at the RNC during prime time.

It will still be hilarious to watch the Paulbots make the attempt. Heh.

75 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:54:04pm

re: #73 Kragar

I'm still freaked out about Easter Island.

My biggest fear is Germans with pointy helmets flying in dirigibles dropping hand held bombing devices on the muddy battlefields of France.

76 efuseakay  Mon, May 14, 2012 3:54:34pm

What ever his positions may be regarding anything (nobody really knows), we sure won't find out with him in the Oval Office.

77 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:05:03pm

Ha! How's this for a weird exchange:

78 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:09:01pm

re: #77 Gus

Ha! How's this for a weird exchange:

[Embedded content]

So to recap.

1. John Nolte thinks that Time magazine cover looks like child porn.
2. Jonah Goldberg thinks it can't possibly be child porn because "it does nothing for him."
3. Markos Moulitsas correctly states that this is too much information.

Whew.

79 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:10:56pm

It's been a while, probably a couple of years, since I've looked at the various state GOP platform evolutions. One of my favorite for study was from the Iowa GOP, which had explicitly advocated teaching creationism, etc.

Well, so I decided to check it out just now... and they have a fancy PHP presentation of their platform now:
[Link: iowagop.org...]

The content is sublimely loopy.

For instance, in the first section:

...

6. The only sound basis for sound government and just human relations is “Natural Law”.

...

10. The function of law is to protect the free exercise of a person’s God given rights. Life, Liberty, and the right to property (pursuit of happiness).


...

Besides redefining "pursuit of happiness", I assume that "Natural law" phrase is a reference to Declarationism.

This is where it gets loopy - natural law, if it means anything, is the acceptance of human reason as the basis for designing laws. There are many schools of "natural law" and some of them are religious, but the Iowa GOP skirts the issue of theocracy by not saying to which school of "natural law" they are referring, but context makes it clear.

The Iowa GOP platform writers in essence would rather say Law of God, but knowing that they can't (without more difficulties) they substitute "natural law", subtle implying they don't mean the truly natural, originally Helenistic, verison but rather a Christian (Paulian) version.


Some other choice phrases from their GOP platform:

9. The individual works hard for what is his/hers. Therefore, the individual will determine with whom he/she will share it, not the government. No more legal plunder. Legal plunder is defined as using the law to take from one person what belongs to them, and giving it to others to whom it does not belong. It is plunder if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what that citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. [emphasis in original]

Can you say "Ayn Rand" boys and girls?

11. Law is to be restricted to protecting all persons, all liberties and all properties. (Including the yet to be born.)

Well...

19. Our founding fathers were very clear in their writings that the United States of America was to be a Republic and not a Democracy (a government of the law and not of the masses). We as Republicans believe that we should “Restore the Republic”. Therefore, Progressivism, Collectivism, Socialism, Fascism, Communism and or any other form of ideology contrary to our founding fathers’ concept of a republic should be resisted, rejected and considered as an enemy.

Make the JBS proud, Republicans...

And then they start getting specific:

1.04

We affirm that science has now proven that life begins at conception. On day one (1) a baby’s genetic code and DNA are formed. That is the beginning of life.

Oh boy...

Then a long section on Agriculture, full of contradictions with everything else... such as:

2.15

We oppose packer/processor ownership and feeding of livestock.

Um... wait... what happened to free enterprise and all that?

Then they go into a long section that looks like it was written by AEI.

Then we get to education:

4.15
We demand abolishment of the Iowa Core Curriculum/Education guidelines.

Gee... I wonder why...

Continued....

80 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:11:28pm

Note to Jonah. If someone says "that looks like child porn" and you say "it can't be child porn because it does nothing for me" people are going to look at you really, really funny.

81 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:13:41pm

re: #79 freetoken

Read through the Texas GOP platform sometime. It's both hilarious and frightening.

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:16:23pm

In any case, congratulations to the mother on the cover of TIME ensuring that her son's junior high (and possibly on both sides of that) experience is going to be hellish in all probability. Yes, it's 10+ years or so away, but the Internet is forever.

83 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:16:48pm
84 Lidane  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:17:32pm

BTW, if anyone hasn't read it, here's a PDF of the 2010 Texas GOP platform. The 2012 version won't be too different:

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

85 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:22:16pm

re: #73 Kragar

I'm still freaked out about Easter Island.

Are any of them women?

86 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:22:27pm

... continued...

4.27

We believe that Intelligent Design theory, or Creationism, should be included with all science instruction along with the Darwinian theory. No theory should then be taught in public schools to the exclusion of the other.

4.28

We recommend that tax funded school libraries include creation science or intelligent design materials on their bookshelves.

4.29

We support displaying the Ten Commandments and the American flag along with the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in its entirety in Iowa Schools.

4.30

We believe that Judeo-Christian values and Scripture should not be excluded from the public schools.

4.31

We support the free speech right of students to write and speak about God and religion in public schools.

4.32

We believe that voluntary teacher or student led prayer shall not be restricted in public schools. The use of the Bible as a textbook should be allowed.

4.33

We support the establishment of a no-activities night on Wednesdays.

Money-shot!

The rest sort of follows:

4.40

We oppose the teaching of homosexual behavior as a normal or acceptable lifestyle in our public schools.

4.41

We believe that sexual orientation should not be allowed to be a basis for any school clubs, such as the Gay Straight Alliance, at any level of the public school system.

4.42

We oppose the “Bullying Law”.

The rest reads again pretty much like straight from AEI/ALEC talking points.

Then they get back to "Family Values". You can pretty much guess what is in there.

When they get to "Government" they dip their toes again in the Alex Jones territory:

7.03

We oppose the proposed North American Union, which would do away with our borders and sovereignty, and we are opposed to the Amero, which would do away with our currency and sovereignty.

7.04

We oppose so-called “World Government” and support full constitutional sovereignty of the U.S.A.

7.05

We reject the “1972 World Heritage Treaty”, which sets up 20 heritage sites within the United States to be governed by a United Nations mandate.

7.06

We oppose any effort to implement Islamic Shariah law in this country.

Furthermore:

7.24

We call for the repeal of the “Federal Reserve Act” eliminating the Federal Reserve and we support returning to the gold and/or silver standard.

Yeehaw!

It just keeps going on and on like that... it's a smorgasbord of Alex Jones and Randian blurbs.

It's such a grab bag of nuthood.

And this the official platform of the Republican Party of Iowa.

It's not some parody by those nasty left wing Hollywood types.

Why won't the media press Mitt Romney on what the various GOP platforms really say?

87 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:24:17pm

re: #86 freetoken

Do they have a position on transmuting lead to gold?

88 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:24:23pm

re: #86 freetoken

What's that? Something from World Net Daily?

89 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:24:39pm

Oh, this is a good one:

8.17

We believe, with the eminent [sic] failure of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, Republicans should take any and all necessary actions to abolish these programs, over time, and replace them with private solutions.

Will someone ask Mitt about this?

90 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:24:55pm

re: #86 freetoken

Why won't the media press Mitt Romney on what the various GOP platforms really say?

Because that would be lefty media bias, and we can't have that.

91 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:25:37pm

re: #87 Decatur Deb

Do they have a position on transmuting lead to gold?

They declare that the EPA shouldn't regulate these sort of activities.

92 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:26:48pm

re: #78 Gus

So to recap.

1. John Nolte thinks that Time magazine cover looks like child porn.
2. Jonah Goldberg thinks it can't possibly be child porn because "it does nothing for him."
3. Markos Moulitsas correctly states that this is too much information.

Whew.

It's not child porn, it's more like regular porn, as in guys see the photo and they think "get that kid off her tit and put me there!"

Here is a picture of a movie star who looks like a normal woman after childbirth.

93 dragonath  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:27:03pm

re: #86 freetoken

We support displaying the Ten Commandments and the American flag along with the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in its entirety in Iowa Schools.

"I pledge allegiance... to Queen Frag... and her mighty state of Hysteria"

94 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:27:32pm

re: #86 freetoken

We can start shooting down most of these points one by one. For example their paranoia:

7. The United States is a “Sovereign” Nation and we should abide by the “Rule of Law” of this nation only.

I submit the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

95 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:28:19pm

re: #94 Gus

We can start shooting down most of these points one by one. For example their paranoia:

You're going to run out of lifetime if you have to shoot down every wingnut meme point by point.

96 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:28:49pm

re: #92 Learned Mother of Zion

It's not child porn, it's more like regular porn, as in guys see the photo and they think "get that kid off her tit and put me there!"

Here is a picture of a movie star who looks like a normal woman after childbirth.

I suppose it could be seen that way. I don't see porn. She's an attractive woman, yes, no doubt in my eyes. I just think it's freaking strange is all. Not the end of the world strange. Just weird.

97 allegro  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:29:40pm

re: #95 freetoken

You're going to run out of lifetime if you have to shoot down every wingnut meme point by point.

I prefer to keep it simple.

Republican platform: We will instill a theocracy.

Me: No.

98 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:29:43pm

re: #95 freetoken

You're going to run out of lifetime if you have to shoot down every wingnut meme point by point.

They're a hopeless bunch. I've pointed out the Supremacy Clause a million times in the past.

99 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:31:07pm

re: #97 allegro

It's not just a theocracy, but their demand list is an incoherent mass of delusional drool.

100 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:33:11pm

re: #99 freetoken

It's not just a theocracy, but their demand list is an incoherent mass of delusional drool.

I wonder what it was like back several decades. Pick any year. Right now it reads like something out of a novel for a brave new Christian world. Something from a religious sect or a cult.

101 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:34:20pm

This is hilarious.

102 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:34:28pm

What we see in the Iowa GOP platform is how even otherwise literate (and Iowa has a very high literacy rate) population can devolve into a mass of self-centered Randian-orgy fueled by insecurities.

They have a spiel in there about the US being a Republic and not a Democracy, because of the evilness of Democracy... and then in a brilliantly stupid move of be-clowning oneself, demonstrate such mob rule in their own meandering, self-contradictory platform.

103 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:35:43pm

re: #102 freetoken

What we see in the Iowa GOP platform is how even otherwise literate (and Iowa has a very high literacy rate) population can devolve into a mass of self-centered Randian-orgy fueled by insecurities.

They have a spiel in there about the US being a Republic and not a Democracy, because of the evilness of Democracy... and then in a brilliantly stupid move of be-clowning oneself, demonstrate such mob rule in their own meandering, self-contradictory platform.

Cargo cult.

104 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:36:48pm

re: #103 Gus

Yes, but... what was the original cargo?

105 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:36:49pm

re: #99 freetoken

It's not just a theocracy, but their demand list is an incoherent mass of delusional drool.

It could largely pass our legislature (R-87, D-51) and be signed by our R governor. And most of the Dems are useless blue dogs. Roy Moore is our new State Supreme Court Chief Justice. All you have to do is let it happen.

106 allegro  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:36:54pm

re: #99 freetoken

It's not just a theocracy, but their demand list is an incoherent mass of delusional drool.

There's a difference?

107 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:37:45pm

re: #104 freetoken

Yes, but... what was the original cargo?

I don't know. Something the Puritans brought over? The Mayflower? European colonialism. The King and the Church of England?

108 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:38:17pm

re: #107 Gus

I don't know. Something the Puritans brought over? The Mayflower? European colonialism. The King and the Church of England?

Not those specifically. Just thinking there might be clues within those blocks.

109 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:38:38pm

re: #107 Gus

More likely the Mad Hatters hat.

110 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:39:04pm
111 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:39:25pm

re: #109 freetoken

More likely the Mad Hatters hat.

There's something in that wheat!

//

112 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:39:36pm

re: #54 Kragar

I have another reason to dislike Prometheus even more.

Guillermo del Toro Says Prometheus May Have Already Eaten His Lunch; Cthulhu May Slumber a While Longer

Waaaaaahhhhh. I was soooo looking forward to del Toro's version of this. My favorite Lovecraft (the only one, I really, really like) and one of my favorite directors.

I'll just go off into a corner and sob now.

113 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:40:57pm

Just for contrast, here is the 2010 Iowa Democratic Party Platform.

114 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:42:47pm

re: #113 freetoken

Just for contrast, here is the 2010 Iowa Democratic Party Platform.

Wut? Wow. Now there's a change.

115 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:46:59pm

How We Became the Party of Ron Paul

and

In wake of Paul movement in Iowa GOP, donations slow, staffer resigns

Gives us a clue to what is going on.

Paulian destruction within the GOP.

The GOP is no longer a stable isotope - I can only guess at the half-life.

116 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:50:35pm

re: #115 freetoken

How We Became the Party of Ron Paul

and

In wake of Paul movement in Iowa GOP, donations slow, staffer resigns

Gives us a clue to what is going on.

Paulian destruction within the GOP.

The GOP is no longer a stable isotope - I can only guess at the half-life.

I encourage all Ron Paul supporters to protest the convention in Tampa. To throw a literal monkey wrench into the selection process. I also encourage Ron Paul supporters not to vote for Mitt Romney in November and instead choose from an appropriate 3rd party candidate.

;)

117 Varek Raith  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:51:53pm
118 allegro  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:53:01pm

re: #113 freetoken

Just for contrast, here is the 2010 Iowa Democratic Party Platform.

Wow! Talk about a clear difference in choice!

119 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:53:20pm

re: #116 Gus

They will choose the American Third Position.

120 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:55:59pm

re: #112 One of the Seventeen

Waaahhh. I was sooo looking forward to del Toro's version of this. My favorite Lovecraft (the only one, I really, really like) and one of my favorite directors.

I'll just go off into a corner and sob now.

I think a few of his stories could be adapted pretty well to the screen (or remade in a few cases).

The Shadow over Innsmouth.
The Colour out of Space
The Dunwich Horror

Even some of his shorter works such as The Terrible Old Man or Pickman's model could be fleshed out into films.

121 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:58:23pm

re: #119 ProGunLiberal

They will choose the American Third Position.

Wide stance?

122 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 4:59:46pm

re: #113 freetoken

Just for contrast, here is the 2010 Iowa Democratic Party Platform.

So one sounds like a political party in a liberal democracy and the other sounds like a bunch of paranoid theocrats. Yep, I can see why voters have a hard choice between them. :x

123 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:00:56pm

re: #117 Varek Raith

[Embedded content] Lol.

Meh. I was just looking through Politifact and thinking about the discussion of today's dueling ads from Obama Obama and Mitt. Politifact certainly doesn't get everything right every time but most reasonable well informed people can understand why they came to their conclusions. It's a decent and honest site. However, the partisans only seem concerned with factual accuracy when checking the other side not their own. I don't like that but it's just the way it goes.
I think the smarter discussion would be about how effective the ads may be. These ads are aimed at low information voters who are swayed by things like ads seen on TV. They are the reason our elections can be bought by whoever has the most money or the cleverest advertising campaign. The purpose is to fool the rubes. These ads aren't factual and shouldn't be treated as such by serious people on either end of the spectrum.

124 b_sharp  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:01:37pm

re: #120 Kragar

I think a few of his stories could be adapted pretty well to the screen (or remade in a few cases).

The Shadow over Innsmouth.
The Colour out of Space
The Dunwich Horror

Even some of his shorter works such as The Terrible Old Man or Pickman's model could be fleshed out into films.

Romney starring in The Tell-Tale Heart.

125 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:01:39pm

re: #122 Simply Sarah

So one sounds like a political party in a liberal democracy and the other sounds like a bunch of paranoid theocrats. Yep, I can see why voters have a hard choice between them. :x

Party platforms are usually as formative as a Father's Day card. Could change this year.

126 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:02:38pm

re: #125 Decatur Deb

Party platforms are usually as formative as a Father's Day card. Could change this year.

Granted, but when one party writes theirs on tinfoil with holy water, that really should set off warning bells.

127 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:03:15pm

re: #124 Cathartic Expression

Romney starring in The Tell-Tale Heart.

That was Poe, who was a major influence on Lovecraft's work.

128 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:03:53pm

re: #126 Simply Sarah

Granted, but when one party writes theirs on tinfoil with holy water, that really should set off warning bells.

Yup. A well-crafted state campaign ad could do some contrast-and-compare.

129 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:04:38pm

Oh, look what just popped up on Wikipedia:

Entertainment manager Louis Walsh seeks access to documents which allegedly show Murdoch's The Sun tabloid paid €700 to a man who made, in a high profile case, what turned out to be a false sexual assault accusation against Walsh. The senior counsel for Walsh tells Ireland's High Court: "The Sun directed the operation to take out Louis Walsh as a public person."

130 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:05:56pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Meh. I was just looking through Politifact and thinking about the discussion of today's dueling ads from Obama Obama and Mitt. Politifact certainly doesn't get everything right every time but most reasonable well informed people can understand why they came to their conclusions. It's a decent and honest site. However, the partisans only seem concerned with factual accuracy when checking the other side not their own. I don't like that but it's just the way it goes.
I think the smarter discussion would be about how effective the ads may be. These ads are aimed at low information voters who are swayed by things like ads seen on TV. They are the reason our elections can be bought by whoever has the most money or the cleverest advertising campaign. The purpose is to fool the rubes. These ads aren't factual and shouldn't be treated as such by serious people on either end of the spectrum.

Aren't politifact the same people who gave the "lie of the year" award to something that was true,?

131 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:06:13pm

re: #125 Decatur Deb

Party platforms are usually as formative as a Father's Day card. Could change this year.

I don't think we're ever going to get around to discussion of issue and platforms this time. Looking back I'm not sure if anyone has run a substantive campaign in my lifetime. I'm starting to think there's so little difference between the candidates that if they were to be honest they'd just agree on pretty much everything.

132 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:06:43pm

re: #92 Learned Mother of Zion

It's not child porn, it's more like regular porn, as in guys see the photo and they think "get that kid off her tit and put me there!"

I see it as child exploitation, the kid is too old to be breastfeeding but too young to have any say in the matter. Creating a public image of the the kid centered around his parent's obsessive fixation seems likely to have negative consequences into the future. It hits all the same disturbing buttons activated by child beauty pageants, except from the other end. Instead of seeing a child forced to act and dress far older than is appropriate we're seeing a child be creepily infantilized.

133 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:07:27pm

re: #130 jamesfirecat

They are falling for "South Park Syndrome"

Otherwise known as saying both sides are wrong, and the truth is in the middle.

134 jaunte  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:07:30pm

re: #104 freetoken

Yes, but... what was the original cargo?

Baggage; they have baggage.

135 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:08:47pm

re: #130 jamesfirecat

Aren't politifact the same people who gave the "lie of the year" award to something that was true,?

That depends on how partisan you are. I think they were technically correct last year. In fact, it was sort of a wakeup for me. I had repeated the same technically dishonest claim myself. I'm not sure if it really qualified as the biggest lie of the year but they are correct that it's not really true.

136 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:08:47pm

re: #134 jaunte

Baggage; they have baggage.

That was my other line of thought. Might as well throw guilt in there for obvious reasons. Heck. A lot of these people actually believe babies are guilty when they're born if you know what I mean.

137 freetoken  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:09:15pm

One last thought before I go for my constitutional...

Besides changing my avatar (which is slowly growing on me, though it still misses something) I feel I need to change something in doing Pages, to get the view rate up. Now, I know for what people search the internet (e.g., I could always go the William Levy Naked Photos). However, my inner pedant drives me to something else.

Most of the wingnut-exposed stuff I'm afraid is losing drawing power - maybe it's just fatigue, or that TPM has cornered the market (as evidenced by many Pages here that rely on TPM).

I have dabbled in other topics, like my recent loquats Page, but those don't draw much.

Ultimately, I think the question comes down to figuring out where a semi-communal blog can head as far as market growth. In light of the ascendency of Twitter in the field of human communications I wonder how blogs can grow. And, since internet growth has been strongest where 漢字 is used as opposed to American English in Roman script it seems I've missed a big boat by not learning some basic Chinese.

Oh well... off to look for any remaining loquats.

138 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:10:16pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

I see it as child exploitation, the kid is too old to be breastfeeding but too young to have any say in the matter. Creating a public image of the the kid centered around his parent's obsessive fixation seems likely to have negative consequences into the future. It hits all the same disturbing buttons activated by child beauty pageants, except from the other end. Instead of seeing a child forced to act and dress far older than is appropriate we're seeing a child be creepily infantilized.

Eh, I see nothing wrong with a kid that age breastfeeding other than that we have culturally decided to frown upon it and that's not a good enough reason for me. Is it unusual? Sure. But I doubt it does any harm. Now, if anything sexual starts getting involved, then we have a problem.

139 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:11:23pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

That depends on how partisan you are. I think they were technically correct last year. In fact, it was sort of a wakeup for me. I had repeated the same technically dishonest claim myself. I'm not sure if it really qualified as the biggest lie of the year but they are correct that it's not really true.

Sorry, I feel that you can't take the "government will pay for your healthcare" out of medicare without changing it beyond anything more than a brand name. A brand name slapped on a voucher that will become less and less useful as healthcare costs continue to increase and the rate at which the amount of money given out doesn't keep track with them.

A lot of people happen to agree with me by the way...

140 teresa  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:12:11pm

This is precisely why Romney is so dangerous. He has no real opinions when it comes to American foreign policy, (GWB Redux) and we know what happened with that. The folks who will drive his foreign policy want a ground war with Iran and a currency war with China. He will allow the worst of the Republican Neo-Con crowd to wreak havoc on the world. We don't need another weak "business man" who really knows nothing about the world in the Whitehouse.

141 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:14:25pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

re: #138 Simply Sarah

Ya know, I have no relation to the issue, never had kids, never breast fed so I def feel that my opinion is not worthy. All I CAN say comfortably is Time picked a radical cover that made major waves. That's the story to me, & I applaud their shit stirring.

142 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:14:47pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

That depends on how partisan you are. I think they were technically correct last year. In fact, it was sort of a wakeup for me. I had repeated the same technically dishonest claim myself. I'm not sure if it really qualified as the biggest lie of the year but they are correct that it's not really true.

Perhaps from a super-semantic viewpoint, it was technically correct in that the plan wouldn't have stopped there from being a program called Medicare. And yes, it wasn't going to touch current beneficiaries. But for everyone outside of the grandfather range, it was going to eviscerate the plan and morph it into something completely different, even if it was still called Medicare.

If they wanted to call it a half truth? Fine, I'd give them that in good faith. But to call it the Lie of the Year? No way.

143 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:17:36pm

re: #140 teresa

We do need to confront China. The mask of their's is slipping, showing an old-style imperialist state.

They must be brought to stop, and then pay for their treatment of Tibetans and Uyghurs.

Fortunately, Turkey has the right attitude on China.

Also, I love Obama's new ad about Romney's Vampire Capitalism:

144 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:17:53pm

re: #141 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

re: #138 Simply Sarah

Ya know, I have no relation to the issue, never had kids, never breast fed so I def feel that my opinion is not worthy. All I CAN say comfortably is Time picked a radical cover that made major waves. That's the story to me, & I applaud their shit stirring.

Heh, so it apparently has. Honestly, I think if I'd seen the cover without all the hoopla surrounding it I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought. It just doesn't shock or offend or outrage or arouse me. Maybe I've just spent too much time on the Internet.

145 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:20:15pm

Hey KT, did reine get the cookbook nudge? Did she laugh? (I've been thinking about it)

146 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:20:48pm

re: #143 ProGunLiberal

Truthfully, I see the PRC like NAZI Germany, and like how the Germans had partial culpability for the Holocaust, so do the Majority Han for the slow-motion genocide of the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

147 Obdicut  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:21:46pm

re: #142 Simply Sarah

It's kind of like: "Hey, did you hear they're taking chicken alfredo off the menu?"

"Nonsense. Don't lie like that. They're not taking it off the menu. It'll be on the menu, but if you order it you have to go and buy the ingredients yourself and cook them on your own, but the waiter will still grind the pepper for you and sprinkle parsley on top."

It was mostly true, if anything, and really showed the idiocy of people who try to remain 'balanced' in an unbalanced political climate.

148 Obdicut  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:22:50pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

By 'the candidates', you don't mean Romney and Obama, do you?

149 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:24:33pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I don't think we're ever going to get around to discussion of issue and platforms this time. Looking back I'm not sure if anyone has run a substantive campaign in my lifetime. I'm starting to think there's so little difference between the candidates that if they were to be honest they'd just agree on pretty much everything.

Nonsense. What about "The rent is too damn high!" dude? He was totally clear about discussing his issue and platform.

150 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:25:16pm

re: #149 Simply Sarah

Problem is, you have to be more than single-issue.

151 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:25:44pm

re: #138 Simply Sarah

Eh, I see nothing wrong with a kid that age breastfeeding other than that we have culturally decided to frown upon it and that's not a good enough reason for me. Is it unusual? Sure. But I doubt it does any harm. Now, if anything sexual starts getting involved, then we have a problem.

I remember being that young, going in to preschool and kindergarten there being discussions about which kids were still riding in car seats. A cruel hierarchy develops early on amongst the young to identify who is more developed and who is still being treated like a baby.

You're right, I suppose, that there's nothing specifically wrong about it besides cultural decision, but we also make cultural decisions about things like bedwetting that few children want to be publicly associated with. I'm saying that if a parent wants to take that out of the private realm and make their kid a national poster child for the parent's proud rejection of convention that there are likely to be consequences. Consequences not necessarily conducive to that child's social happiness.

152 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:25:56pm

re: #150 ProGunLiberal

Problem is, you have to be more than single-issue.

That doesn't seem to have stopped the modern GOP.

153 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:26:53pm

re: #152 Simply Sarah

Oh, they are more than single issue.

Problem is, they seem to be the American version of the Al-Nour Party.

154 austin_blue  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:27:28pm

re: #20 Gus

Romney is somewhere in between McCain and Palin on foreign policy. He does get that deer in the headlights look when he's talking about it. Invariably, all that comes out is essentially hostile rhetoric. Romney confuses the Pentagon with the State Department. Foreign policy is primarily the latter.

Quoted for truth.

Once the military is tossed into the mix, you've lost control of the situation.

155 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:28:25pm

re: #151 goddamnedfrank

I remember being that young, going in to preschool and kindergarten there being discussions about which kids were still riding in car seats. A cruel hierarchy develops early on amongst the young to identify who is more developed and who is still being treated like a baby.

You're right, I suppose, that there's nothing specifically wrong about it besides cultural decision, but we also make cultural decisions about things like bedwetting that few children want to be publicly associated with. I'm saying that if a parent wants to take that out of the private realm and make their kid a national poster child for the parent's proud rejection of convention that there are likely to be consequences. Consequences not necessarily conducive to that child's social happiness.

But if you only do things in secret in the shadows, you will never change the culture of shame surrounding it. Things didn't change to where I could be a openly lesbian-leaning pansexual (I never do things simply) by having women keep their love for each other hidden behind thick closed doors.

156 darthstar  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:30:29pm

Rats and others jumping ship...

157 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:34:54pm

Hahaha!

158 austin_blue  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:35:15pm

re: #115 freetoken

How We Became the Party of Ron Paul

and

In wake of Paul movement in Iowa GOP, donations slow, staffer resigns

Gives us a clue to what is going on.

Paulian destruction within the GOP.

The GOP is no longer a stable isotope - I can only guess at the half-life.

My best guess? Badly hammered in '12 and marginalized by '14. This level of te crazy is unsustainable.

159 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:35:41pm

re: #157 Gus

Hahaha!

[Embedded content]

Hundreds! Hundreds of jo-Dozens! Dozens of jobs!

160 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:38:13pm

re: #159 Simply Sarah

Hundreds! Hundreds of jo-Dozens! Dozens of jobs!

What's important is during my time at Bain Capital I managed to create at least one job, an opening for a new CEO when I stepped down.

161 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:39:27pm

re: #154 austin_blue

Quoted for truth.

Once the military is tossed into the mix, you've lost control of the situation.

Somewhere along the way this basic factor in FP has been lost in the conversation. The military is used as a last resort in FP matters. Nations don't "shoot first and ask questions later." Nations must wage peace first and that is done through State not the Pentagon.

162 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:41:01pm

re: #161 Gus

Somewhere along the way this basic factor in FP has been lost in the conversation. The military is used as a last resort in FP matters. Nations don't "shoot first and ask questions later." Nations must wage peace first and that is done through State not the Pentagon.

And if that fails, peace is also Plan B and C. If those fail as well, then you start looking at Plan Gun Barrel.

163 darthstar  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:45:04pm

re: #157 Gus

Hahaha!

[Embedded content]

Next stop, hundreds.

164 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:45:45pm

re: #162 Simply Sarah

Speaking of which, I think Plan A (Sanctions) will work with Iran. The Government ain't exactly popular, and a more popular Mossadeq fell under similar sanctions to the ones that will be enacted in the next several months.

All we need is a coup against Khamenei.

165 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:46:02pm
166 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:47:15pm

re: #163 darthstar

Next stop, hundreds.

How much money were you planning to spend?

//

167 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:48:37pm

Republicans:

168 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:50:31pm

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the dumbest thing I have seen all day:

Is Buckingham Palace ugly?

How fucking stupid is the person who wrote that? Colossal, or red-giant-sized?

169 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:51:17pm

Gah! I read a Breitbart page. Brain bleach stat!

170 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:52:17pm

re: #167 Gus

Republicans:

[Embedded content]

I'm quite seriously waiting for the bill that says a pregnant woman loses all rights and must be kept under strict supervision for the good of her unborn child. Yes, I think we're rapidly approaching the point where that isn't wild exaggeration.

171 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:55:41pm

Hey. Vampires create jobs. Think of all the wood stake sales. The mirror sales and garlic production.

//

172 wrenchwench  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:58:31pm

re: #170 Simply Sarah

I'm quite seriously waiting for the bill that says a pregnant woman loses all rights and must be kept under strict supervision for the good of her potential future unborn child. Yes, I think we're rapidly approaching the point where that isn't wild exaggeration.

Super-sized it for you.

173 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 14, 2012 5:59:51pm

re: #171 Gus

Hey. Vampires create jobs. Think of all the wood stake sales. The mirror sales and garlic production.

//

I know one vampire who was critical to the growth of the newspaper industry!

174 Gus  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:00:17pm

re: #173 jamesfirecat

I know one vampire who was critical to the growth of the newspaper industry!

Randolph Hearst?

175 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:01:49pm

re: #172 wrenchwench

Super-sized it for you.

Oh, good point. Never know when we might be pregnant, for one! How silly of me to miss that. Guess that should be expected from a foolish woman like myself.

176 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:09:29pm

re: #174 Gus

Randolph Hearst?

Nice try but I was making a Discworld joke/reference.

177 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:14:30pm

re: #168 ProGunLiberal

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the dumbest thing I have seen all day:

Is Buckingham Palace ugly?

How fucking stupid is the person who wrote that? Colossal, or red-giant-sized?

Thought you'd want to see this:

Clinging desperately to the smallest of crevices on the side of a cliff, Marius Hoft believed he was about to die.

The 19-year-old had fled as crazed gunman Anders Breivik slaughtered dozens of his friends in a massacre which cost 69 people their lives.

But by an extraordinary twist of fate, Mr Hoft survived where so many others died.

He and his best friend Andreas Dalby Grønnesby fled before 33-year-old Breivik’s merciless assault on Norway’s Utoya Island last July.

They clambered over heaps of bodies in a desperate bid to find a hiding place and were finally forced to climb down the sheer side of a cliff.

But as they searched for a secure spot to wait for rescue, Andreas lost his grip and plunged to his death.

Even then Mr Hoft’s ordeal was not over. He was forced to listen as right-wing extremist Breivik continued his shooting spree in the woods above before police finally disabled him.

The teenager was then hauled to safety on a rope by rescuers.

Chilling photographs that show Mr Hoft clinging to the cliffside and his eventual escape were released for the first time today.

178 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:28:47pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

Wow. He was more than a little lucky, though he will need more than a little therapy.

I still can't believe some dipshit called Buckingham Palace ugly. It's not my thing (I prefer Gothic, Baroque, and Art Deco), but it is good, modest, and stately.

It does need a thorough washing though. I somehow doubt that the Front Facade is supposed to be Tannish-Gray.

The other facade is supposed to be Tan though.

Also, considering that Buckingham Palace is Neo-Classical, are they gonna call the White House, the US Capitol, and St. Pauls ugly?

179 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:31:16pm

re: #178 ProGunLiberal

Wow. He was more than a little lucky, though he will need more than a little therapy.

I still can't believe some dipshit called Buckingham Palace ugly. It's not my thing (I prefer Gothic, Baroque, and Art Deco), but it is good, modest, and stately.

It does need a thorough washing though. I somehow doubt that the Front Facade is supposed to be Tannish-Gray.

The other facade is supposed to be Tan though.

Also, considering that Buckingham Palace is Neo-Classical, are they gonna call the White House, the US Capitol, and St. Pauls ugly?

If so, he better never come to Chicago. We have many Neo-Classical buildings here, and po-mouthing Chicago's architecture in the way he does will get you cursed out, at a minimum.

180 Kragar  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:32:55pm

re: #178 ProGunLiberal

Wow. He was more than a little lucky, though he will need more than a little therapy.

I still can't believe some dipshit called Buckingham Palace ugly. It's not my thing (I prefer Gothic, Baroque, and Art Deco), but it is good, modest, and stately.

It does need a thorough washing though. I somehow doubt that the Front Facade is supposed to be Tannish-Gray.

The other facade is supposed to be Tan though.

Also, considering that Buckingham Palace is Neo-Classical, are they gonna call the White House, the US Capitol, and St. Pauls ugly?

Needs more defense turrets, 50' thick reinforced concrete walls and 100' tall statues of our glorious leaders.

181 ProGunLiberal  Mon, May 14, 2012 6:34:14pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

I have no clue what that dude's problem is. The only criticism I have of Buckingham Palace is that it doesn't look like the outside has been cleaned in a long time.

However I still prefer the more ornate forms of Architecture (Canada's Parliament Building is more pleasing to me than out US Capitol Building). But that doesn't mean that Neo-Classical is ugly. It can be quite elegant.

Also, let's point out this building looks quite good for having been bombed in WWII.

182 John Q  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:10:34am

Q: How can you tell when Mitt Romney is lying?

A: Whenever (speaking of Obama) he begins a sentence with "This is a president who....."


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh