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Gallup Poll: 58% of Republicans Are Young Earth Creationists

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US News • Views: 47,055

Gallup polls on Americans’ attitudes toward the scientific theory of evolution haven’t changed much in 30 years, and their latest poll continues this depressing non-trend: In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins.

That’s right — according to Gallup, 46% of the American public are hard core young Earth creationists who believe the Earth was poofed into existence in its present form about 10,000 years ago.

And for Republicans, of course, the numbers are even worse; 58% of Republicans are young Earth creationists.

America, we have a problem.

Most Americans are not scientists, of course, and cannot be expected to understand all of the latest evidence and competing viewpoints on the development of the human species. Still, it would be hard to dispute that most scientists who study humans agree that the species evolved over millions of years, and that relatively few scientists believe that humans began in their current form only 10,000 years ago without the benefit of evolution. Thus, almost half of Americans today hold a belief, at least as measured by this question wording, that is at odds with the preponderance of the scientific literature.

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128 comments

1 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:21:07am

Rejection of one reality strongly correlated with rejection of many other realities. Who would have guessed?

2 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:21:48am

Just boggles the mind really. Religious faith is one thing Discounting all evidence is another.

3 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:24:10am

Looks like I was a thread early with this one:

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.

According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumerians—the first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and government—were working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.

"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying, 'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying, 'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."

"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."

4 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:24:51am

This is the most disheartening poll of Republican views I've seen since... the last disheartening poll of Republican views Charles posted.

5 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:25:54am

re: #1 erik_t

Rejection of one reality strongly correlated with rejection of many other realities. Who would have guessed?

Don't miss that 41% of Democrats and 39% of Independents hold the same view. There is pretty broad support across all political demographics. Personally, I think this is just further evidence that the United States is doomed to decline.

6 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:26:03am

For chrissakes, even the people who wrote the frigging Bible did not mean for it to be taken entirely literally, these were stories and allegories and myths that discussed our relationship to God and to each other, not about God's relationship to the physical world.

7 jaunte  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:26:09am
...almost half of Americans today hold a belief, at least as measured by this question wording, that is at odds with the preponderance of the scientific literature.

I would bet that if polled, the same people would hold the opinion that America is #1 in science.

8 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:26:49am

This polling came up this past Friday with Gus and I commenting about it. It's interesting that the increase in creationists came not from the evolution with no G-d intervening group, but from those who thought that G-d played a role in evolution. It's a radicalization among those who were already believing that G-d plays a role in worldly events and had a role in evolution.

But considering that the GOP and right wing has eschewed science and the scientific method, that evolution is supported by a preponderance of the scientific literature means precisely - nothing - to the GOP and the right wing.

In keeping with the comments of the prior thread, it's not SSM that will be the downfall of the US, but putting the blinders on science, scientific inquiry and technology by purposefully ignoring evolution, science, and trying to push creationism in science classrooms while undermining the ability of science teachers to teach evolution to future generations of students.

9 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:27:31am

re: #7 jaunte

I would bet that if polled, the same people would hold the opinion that America is #1 in science.

We are still good at finding practical applications for scientific principles, but how are we going to make progress in discovering new principles when we have our heads stuck up a goat's ass?

10 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:27:37am

Is it just me or are we a more religious nation than we've been in the past? Seems like secularism was more accepted in the past. Not the way distant past mind you but it seems that religion has grown.

11 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:27:48am

I suggest ridicule for the YEC's. They are too stupid to be taught and too arrogant to want to learn. So make fun of them for being so ignorant.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:28:47am

It's not strictly speaking young earth creationism; the earth could have been hanging out, chilling, for billions of years and finally god decided to create humans entirely out of nowhere 10,000 years ago and cribbed most of the DNA from a chimp.

Which would be a pretty weird god.

13 jaunte  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:28:52am

re: #8 lawhawk

It's interesting that the increase in creationists came not from the evolution with no G-d intervening group, but from those who thought that G-d played a role in evolution.

This is probably their way of reducing the cognitive dissonance of holding two apparently conflicting ideas as true.

14 Gus  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:29:09am

Sometimes I think it's a losing battle.

15 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:29:24am

re: #12 Obdicut

It's not strictly speaking young earth creationism; the earth could have been hanging out, chilling, for billions of years and finally god decided to create humans entirely out of nowhere 10,000 years ago and cribbed most of the DNA from a chimp.

Which would be a pretty weird god.

What a damned slacker.

16 jaunte  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:29:46am

re: #12 Obdicut

Mysterious ways!

17 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:30:04am

re: #6 Expand Your Ground

Or, if you combine Starfleet rules with the Bible - hours are like days... then the creation story in Genesis makes sense - that out of nothingness (the big bang), you get the creation of the universe, and the eventual creation of Earth, the plants, creatures, and eventually mankind. But it isn't a literal 6 days and rest on the 7th. And it certainly doesn't mean the earth is roughly 6,000 years old.

18 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:30:15am

Even the Pope sees no inherent conflict between believeing in God and Evolution, but people who insisit on a literal reading of the Bible are beyond ignorant.

They truly want us to see the world through the eyes and minds of a bunch of nomadic goat herders.

19 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:30:44am

re: #17 lawhawk

Or, if you combine Starfleet rules with the Bible - hours are like days... then the creation story in Genesis makes sense - that out of nothingness (the big bang), you get the creation of the universe, and the eventual creation of Earth, the plants, creatures, and eventually mankind. But it isn't a literal 6 days and rest on the 7th. And it certainly doesn't mean the earth is roughly 6,000 years old.

This is a worldview-advancement all the way to the pillar of scientific thought that is William Jennings Bryan.

Woof.

20 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:31:04am

re: #12 Obdicut

And then thrown in all those dinosaur bones to test us. You can't forget the tests.

21 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:31:29am

re: #15 erik_t

What a damned slacker.

If God had been a student he would have goofed off for six days and then created the entire world, the stars, the earth, the sea, the animals and mankind all in one all-nighter...

22 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:31:47am

re: #18 Expand Your Ground

Even the Pope sees no inherent conflict between believeing in God and Evolution, but people who insisit on a literal reading of the Bible are beyond ignorant.

St. Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century had a more sophisticated view of the interaction of faith and reason than the GOP does today.

23 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:32:32am

re: #20 lawhawk

And then thrown in all those dinosaur bones to test us. You can't forget the tests.

Well, there's also a group of people who believe that every other animal on earth evolved, except for us. Seriously, it's reasonably common. Hell, it's even really common in Japan.

24 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:32:43am

re: #21 Expand Your Ground

If God had been a student he would have goofed off for six days and then created the entire world, the stars, the earth, the sea, the animals and mankind all in one all-nighter...

My God, would that ever explain a lot.

Here's an alternate theory.

25 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:33:10am

re: #21 Expand Your Ground

Or he would have gotten Slartbartfast and the Magratheans to do his work for him.

26 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:34:44am

Honestly, this is one of the results of what happens when people apply revealed religion (Other types of religions tend not suffer in quite the same manner, due to a less direct link to something supposedly being the words of the divine) as describing how the world is and was, rather than simply using it as a guide on how to live, not that the latter doesn't have pitfalls as well. It misses the forest for the trees, really.

27 dragonath  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:35:24am

Guys, this is just another reason Scott Walker needs to win tomorrow. Together, we're gonna save America's soul from the Anti-American Communist Liberal Unions

28 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:37:18am
29 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:37:42am

I really would like to see a day where you can be a devout atheist without scorn. The freedom not to believe is as important as the freedom to believe. And I wish more would acknowledge that.

30 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:38:47am

re: #28 Kragar

Nicolas Steno was a godless heathen!

Wait a sec...

I doubt the Vatican's choice to put Stano on the road to sainthood carries much weight with fundamentalist Christians.

31 Interesting Times  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:39:15am

From the "WTF took you so long" files:

32 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:39:48am

re: #15 erik_t

What a damned slacker.

Would you prefer a god who labours over every little thing or a lazy god who tends to plagiarize himself and take multiple shortcuts so he can get out to the golf course and do the fun stuff?

Oh wait, he's an all-powerful kind of guy (he's male in the Bible) who ignores time and space so playing golf, labouring over each species and taking short-cuts can all be done instantaneously and concurrently. He can micro, macro and absentee manage everything all at the same time. What a guy!

33 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:40:26am

A snippet from Conservapedia's page on Dinosaurs, this is the website where stupid conservative people go to polish their ignorance.

Creation science asserts that the biblical account, that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of creation[3] approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans, thus debunking the Theory of Evolution and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age and creation of the earth.
Creation science shows that dinosaurs lived in harmony with other animals, (probably including in the Garden of Eden) eating only plants[4]; that pairs of each dinosaur kind were taken onto Noah's Ark during the Great Flood and were preserved from drowning[5]; that many of the fossilized dinosaur bones originated during the mass killing of the Flood[6]; and that possibly some descendants of those dinosaurs taken aboard the Ark are still around today.[7] At least 300 distinct genera of dinosaur have been identified.[8]
Archaeological, fossil, and documentary evidence supports the logical conclusion that dinosaurs co-existed with mankind until at least relatively recent times

34 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:40:30am

re: #30 HappyWarrior

I doubt the Vatican's choice to put Stano on the road to sainthood carries much weight with fundamentalist Christians.

I love how modern Christianity has decided to do away with all that old fashioned Christianity stuff.

35 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:40:53am

re: #12 Obdicut

It's not strictly speaking young earth creationism; the earth could have been hanging out, chilling, for billions of years and finally god decided to create humans entirely out of nowhere 10,000 years ago and cribbed most of the DNA from a chimp.

Which would be a pretty weird god.

But not weird if the 'god'(s) happened to be aliens that crash landed and had to do a little DNA splicing with the best suited animal on this planet to keep their 'linage' going because they couldn't survive long on this planet as it was inhospitable to their beings. They had to do it in as much time as their supplies and artificial atmosphere would hold up (maybe 6 days, and on the 7th day they died).

36 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:40:59am

Someone get Mitt's campaign a copy-editor. It's yet another glaring typo in one of his ads.

37 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:40:59am

re: #31 Interesting Times

From the "WTF took you so long" files:

[Embedded content]

Had to see if anyone noticed enough to bother with it.

38 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:43:07am

re: #33 Mich-again

A snippet from Conservapedia's page on Dinosaurs, this is the website where stupid conservative people go to polish their ignorance.

Can people honestly believe that either A) T. Rex skeletons are falsified or that B) T. Rex was a plant-eater?

I get that science is hard or whatever, but can you honestly look at that head and so completely turn off yours?

39 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:44:08am

re: #36 lawhawk

Someone get Mitt's campaign a copy-editor. It's yet another glaring typo in one of his ads.

Nice pitcher tho!

40 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:45:32am

re: #34 Kragar

I love how modern Christianity has decided to do away with all that old fashioned Christianity stuff.

What's ironic is that in many cases especially with the megachurches, the fundamentalists have become exactly what their ancestors decried the Catholic and Anglican churches for being.

41 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:46:05am

re: #32 b_sharp

Would you prefer a god who labours over every little thing or a lazy god who tends to plagiarize himself and take multiple shortcuts so he can get out to the golf course and do the fun stuff?

Oh wait, he's an all-powerful kind of guy (he's male in the Bible) who ignores time and space so playing golf, labouring over each species and taking short-cuts can all be done instantaneously and concurrently. He can micro, macro and absentee manage everything all at the same time. What a guy!

I admit I'm far from a scholar in this area, but it was my understanding that, at least in most branches of Judaism, God was considered without gender, even if masculine forms of words were generally used in writings? Can someone more well versed in this collaborate/correct this?

42 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:46:43am

re: #38 erik_t

Can people honestly believe that either A) T. Rex skeletons are falsified or that B) T. Rex was a plant-eater?

I get that science is hard or whatever, but can you honestly look at that head and so completely turn off yours?

Those weren't teeth, they were a reverse baleen to keep the bugs out.

43 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:47:30am

re: #41 Simply Sarah

I admit I'm far from a scholar in this area, but it was my understanding that, at least in most branches of Judaism, God was considered without gender, even if masculine forms of words were generally used in writings? Can someone more well versed in this collaborate/correct this?

G-D contains both genders.

44 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:47:40am

re: #41 Simply Sarah

I admit I'm far from a scholar in this area, but it was my understanding that, at least in most branches of Judaism, God was considered without gender, even if masculine forms of words were generally used in writings? Can someone more well versed in this collaborate/correct this?

Dude, he made man in his own image and femans out of man's ribs.

45 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:47:46am

re: #33 Mich-again

A snippet from Conservapedia's page on Dinosaurs, this is the website where stupid conservative people go to polish their ignorance.

[Link: jurassicparkwtf.ytmnd.com...]

46 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:48:05am

re: #43 Learned Mother of Zion

G-D contains both genders.

REVISIONISM!

47 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:48:39am

re: #42 b_sharp

Those weren't teeth, they were a reverse baleen to keep the bugs out.

Ah, the majestic land-whale.

48 allegro  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:50:27am

re: #33 Mich-again

Creation science asserts that the biblical account, that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of creation[3] approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans, thus debunking the Theory of Evolution and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age and creation of the earth.

This is not a grammatically correct sentence. It doesn't even make sense. "Thus debunking?" How?

49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:50:46am

re: #21 Expand Your Ground

If God had been a student he would have goofed off for six days and then created the entire world, the stars, the earth, the sea, the animals and mankind all in one all-nighter...

"Oh crap dude, I need another gender! I'll just borrow a rib here (snap) and the prof probably won't notice."

50 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:51:01am

re: #12 Obdicut

It's not strictly speaking young earth creationism; the earth could have been hanging out, chilling, for billions of years and finally god decided to create humans entirely out of nowhere 10,000 years ago and cribbed most of the DNA from a chimp.

Which would be a pretty weird god.

Everything about gods is weird, not least being how human they are, superpowers excepted.

51 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:51:36am

re: #24 erik_t

My God, would that ever explain a lot.

Here's an alternate theory.

Ah, another fan of overkill with the jerk spice.
/

52 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:51:55am

re: #48 allegro

This is not a grammatically correct sentence. It doesn't even make sense. "Thus debunking?" How?

You can debunk an evidence-based theory by asserting something else in a sufficiency forceful manner.

Really encapsulates their entire mindset.

53 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:51:59am

re: #48 allegro

This is not a grammatically correct sentence. It doesn't even make sense. "Thus debunking?" How?

It's basically the bible says it happened therefore let's ignore actual evidence.

54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:53:18am

re: #32 b_sharp

Would you prefer a god who labours over every little thing or a lazy god who tends to plagiarize himself and take multiple shortcuts so he can get out to the golf course and do the fun stuff?

Oh wait, he's an all-powerful kind of guy (he's male in the Bible) who ignores time and space so playing golf, labouring over each species and taking short-cuts can all be done instantaneously and concurrently. He can micro, macro and absentee manage everything all at the same time. What a guy!

A regular Dr Manhattan.

55 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:53:29am

re: #48 allegro

This is not a grammatically correct sentence. It doesn't even make sense. "Thus debunking?" How?

WHo need grammer?
Or grammar?

56 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:54:24am

re: #43 Learned Mother of Zion

G-D contains both genders.

OK, that's basically what I thought.

re: #44 b_sharp

Dude, he made man in his own image and femans out of man's ribs.

See, that's the thing. Best as I can tell, of the major monotheistic religions I really know anything about (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism), Christianity seems to be the one where large sections of believers are most likely to gender the Supreme Power as specifically male, rather than female, both/all genders, or without a specific gender. Dunno much about Sikhism or any other major faiths I may be forgetting at the moment.

57 erik_t  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:54:29am

re: #32 b_sharp

Would you prefer a god who labours over every little thing or a lazy god who tends to plagiarize himself and take multiple shortcuts so he can get out to the golf course and do the fun stuff?

No wonder his 'plan' always seems to suck so much for such a large segment of humanity.

Could have used a few more revisions there, buddy. I bet his senior project at God U had a fucking misspelling in the title.

58 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:54:35am

re: #54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A regular Dr Manhattan.

Dr. Manhattan wouldn't have let the Scots invent golf or curling.

59 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:54:52am

Here is a rabbi who supports evolution. Sadly though, in addition to being declared a "heretic" in some "ultra-Orthodox" circles, his website has not evolved since 2000.

60 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:56:05am

re: #33 Mich-again

A snippet from Conservapedia's page on Dinosaurs, this is the website where stupid conservative people go to polish their ignorance.

Damn, that's discouraging; that someone could actually make money and gain respect and even power promulgating moronic lies. A hundred years ago this kind of nonsense would have been regarded as a joke among trained clergy. Today it is majority opinion.

61 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:56:11am

re: #58 b_sharp

Dr. Manhattan wouldn't have let the Scots invent golf or curling.

He got the thing with giving the Irish whiskey right though. And prevented the spread of haggis as well.

62 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:56:12am

re: #48 allegro

This is not a grammatically correct sentence. It doesn't even make sense. "Thus debunking?" How?

Thus debunking...

So it was said. So shall it be done. /clap clap.... That's how.

63 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:57:16am

re: #62 lawhawk

Thus debunking...

So it was said. So shall it be done. /clap clap... That's how.

The only person who properly got away with that approach was Yul Brynner. And he had his army of robo-gunfighters to back him up.
/

64 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:58:41am

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

Damn, that's discouraging; that someone could actually make money and gain respect and even power promulgating moronic lies. A hundred years ago this kind of nonsense would have been regarded as a joke among trained clergy. Today it is majority opinion.

And if the GOP wins this fall, the dam will break and this idiocy will start flooding en masse into our public schools.

65 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:59:05am

Our great nation will be brought down by commercially marketed superstition. Who could have imagined such a thing?

66 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:59:11am

re: #56 Simply Sarah

OK, that's basically what I thought.

re: #44 b_sharp

See, that's the thing. Best as I can tell, of the major monotheistic religions I really know anything about (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism), Christianity seems to be the one where large sections of believers are most likely to gender the Supreme Power as specifically male, rather than female, both/all genders, or without a specific gender. Dunno much about Sikhism or any other major faiths I may be forgetting at the moment.

Rule #1: Do not expect consistency from any religion.
Rule #2: All religions undergo artificial selection through time.
Rule #3: All religions evolve into chimera.

67 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:00:14pm

This stuff really does explain why we're lagging in science and math. Makes me glad my parents didn't force religion on me.

68 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:01:11pm

re: #64 Expand Your Ground

And if the GOP wins this fall, the dam will break and this idiocy will start flooding en masse into our public schools.

Only until "school choice" and vouchers initiative supplant public education with less-regulated madrassas private Christian schools that receive tax dollars.

69 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:01:17pm

re: #44 b_sharp

Dude, he made man in his own image and femans out of man's ribs.

I thought s/he made them both from clay and breathed life into them.

70 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:07:26pm

re: #69 RayFerd

I thought s/he made them both from clay and breathed life into them.

Depends on who you talk to.

71 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:08:27pm
72 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:09:53pm

re: #70 b_sharp

Depends on who you talk to.

I know, and the Gnostic story has Eve breathing life into Adam. Wouldn't that just twist the knickers of the men's club religious fundies.

73 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:11:28pm

re: #71 Channeling Confucius

Fortunately, one can register as a Republican in CA without thinking like the nutroots bulk of the party. I did so first in 1984 to vote against St Ronald of Raygun in the presidential primary, and have remained there to vote against the truly dangerous wingnuts in subsequent primaries. Also, my views do not fit neatly into the party distinctions, and I'm more comfortable as a liberal Republican than a conservative Democrat, a group I associate with George Wallace and his ilk. Such is the cost of being a child of the sixties.

I am still registered Republican in Arizona, a legacy of registering to vote for Evan Mecham in the 1986 gubernatorial primary, as I found him the candidate least likely to get a majority in the general.

Unfortunately, there was a rift in the Democratic Party, and an independent candidate split the vote, so Ev got in on a plurality...

So much for me being a Machiavellian.

74 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:11:42pm

re: #72 RayFerd

I know, and the Gnostic story has Eve breathing life into Adam. Wouldn't that just twist the knickers of the men's club religious fundies.

You mean the very first woman* knew where the inflation valve was?


*Second woman in some stories.

75 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:14:12pm

Again, the view of God from the Old Testament is that of a tribe of goat herders, a very patriarchal society. Of course that is going to be reflected in their theology.

But these arguments are wasted on literalists.

76 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:20:19pm

As the Idiocracy advances, scientific knowledge and critical thinking can be preserved in our universities and other academic institutions, essentially making them islands of reason in a sea of superstition and falsehood. This can only happen, though, if we can preserve academic freedom. Unfortunately, this is under attack from the same evil forces who have targeted scientific knowledge for the masses. The abolition of tenure is an important secondary issue with fundies and the tea party. If they succeed, there will be no fortress where the truly informed can take refuge, no shield against a New Dark Age. We have to prevent this at any cost.

There are quite a few science fiction stories in which scientists and scholars must operate underground in a society dominated by official ignorance. Call me an alarmist if you like, but I think it might actually come to that. This won't happen in my lifetime but it might in some of yours.

77 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:24:10pm

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

I think the mandate that people actually ignore the science on the rising of the oceans is a significant first sign.

It's ignorance enforced by law.

78 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:25:32pm

re: #75 Expand Your Ground

Again, the view of God from the Old Testament is that of a tribe of goat herders, a very patriarchal society. Of course that is going to be reflected in their theology.

For some reason, reading this made the odd word SCOTUS pop into my mind. Strange.

79 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:25:47pm

re: #77 Obdicut

I think the mandate that people actually ignore the science on the rising of the oceans is a significant first sign.

It's ignorance enforced by law.

It is yet another example of reality playing well with the title of Al Gore's film.

80 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:26:32pm

re: #78 Achilles Tang

For some reason, reading this made the odd word SCOTUS pop into my mind. Strange.

Nonsense! There are actually 3 women on the Court now!
/

81 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:27:02pm

re: #79 Simply Sarah

It is yet another example of reality playing well with the title of Al Gore's film.

"The Undiscovered Country"?

82 jhrhv  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:27:11pm

The level of ignorance required to believe the earth is only 10,000 years old is almost impossible to comprehend.

That these are the people that have an affect deciding who the next POTUS is to me more frightening than just about anything else I've ever considered in my life.

83 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:27:38pm

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

Damn, that's discouraging; that someone could actually make money and gain respect and even power promulgating moronic lies. A hundred years ago this kind of nonsense would have been regarded as a joke among trained clergy. Today it is majority opinion.

It seems they have the idea that if enough people believe an explanation it will become true. This is clearly not an issue in which there are two opposing viewpoints and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

84 allegro  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:28:18pm

re: #77 Obdicut

I think the mandate that people actually ignore the science on the rising of the oceans is a significant first sign.

It's ignorance enforced by law.

If I owned property in a coastal community my mandate would be to sell it right quick while I still could and get to higher ground. This nonsense guarantees that they are well and truly fucked.

85 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:29:18pm

Why's it got to be 10,000 years? It could be easily 10 minutes if you're willing to say God put all evidence to contrary there to fool you.

86 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:29:21pm

re: #84 allegro

If I owned property in a coastal community my mandate would be to sell it right quick while I still could and get to higher ground. This nonsense guarantees that they are well and truly fucked.

Yeah, but the plus side is that there will still be plenty of deniers who will buy from you.

87 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:29:35pm

re: #84 allegro

If I owned property in a coastal community my mandate would be to sell it right quick while I still could and get to higher ground. This nonsense guarantees that they are well and truly fucked.

Oh they will probably be fine. It's the next generation or the one after that which will have to deal with the mess. That is their hope, at least.

88 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:30:10pm

re: #78 Achilles Tang

For some reason, reading this made the odd word SCOTUS pop into my mind. Strange.

SCOTUS herders? Goat scrota?

89 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:30:52pm

re: #88 Expand Your Ground

SCOTUS herders? Goat scrota?

No, the Scalias.

90 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:31:28pm

re: #82 jhrhv

The level of ignorance required to believe the earth is only 10,000 years old is almost impossible to comprehend.

That these are the people that have an affect deciding who the next POTUS is to me more frightening than just about anything else I've ever considered in my life.

I hate to say it but it looks like anti-science is the default position for the US and was only temporarily disrupted when the Communists reached space and while the USSR was a threat. Since '89 it looks like the attitude is making a comeback.

91 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:31:54pm

re: #85 Kragar

Why's it got to be 10,000 years? It could be easily 10 minutes if you're willing to say God put all evidence to contrary there to fool you.

Last Thursdayism.

92 prairiefire  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:32:44pm

re: #74 b_sharp

You mean the very first woman* knew where the inflation valve was?

*Second woman in some stories.

After Lilith?

93 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:33:16pm

re: #83 Mich-again

It seems they have the idea that if enough people believe an explanation it will become true. This is clearly not an issue in which there are two opposing viewpoints and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

A democratically elected truth.

94 AK-47%  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:35:12pm

re: #90 b_sharp

I hate to say it but it looks like anti-science is the default position for the US and was only temporarily disrupted when the Communists reached space and while the USSR was a threat. Since '89 it looks like the attitude is making a comeback.

The USA was really good at practical science: individuals or small comapnies finding applications for scientific principles and making money at it.

But as we found out after WWII (once we had milked everything we could from our expatriate and kidnapped German scientists) was that making progress in theoretical research is a joint, communal effort, one that cannot really be driven by short-term profit-seeking.

But "communal" sounds too much like, well, you-inow-what-ism...

95 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:35:13pm

re: #93 b_sharp

A democratically elected truth.

That is exactly what happens when the elected school board moves to push creationism in the public schools as an alternative to evolution.

96 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:35:15pm

re: #92 prairiefire

After Lilith?

Yah. I tried to add a picture of Lilith from Frazier but it was too frightening.

97 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:38:39pm

re: #77 Obdicut

I think the mandate that people actually ignore the science on the rising of the oceans is a significant first sign.

It's ignorance enforced by law.

And the earth is the center of our universe. And there be dragons (demons) out there beyond the edges of the world.

98 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:38:45pm

I'm actually surprised the percentage isn't HIGHER.

99 The Yankee  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:38:57pm

I wonder how many people that work for the oil industry are young earth creationist?

100 Batman  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:39:49pm
Looks like I was a thread early with this one:

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

re: #3 Kragar

Reminds me of my all-time favorite video on YouTube, by the always-awesome AronRa:

An Archaeological Moment in Time

101 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:43:38pm

re: #94 Expand Your Ground

The USA was really good at practical science: individuals or small comapnies finding applications for scientific principles and making money at it.

But as we found out after WWII (once we had milked everything we could from our expatriate and kidnapped German scientists) was that making progress in theoretical research is a joint, communal effort, one that cannot really be driven by short-term profit-seeking.

But "communal" sounds too much like, well, you-inow-what-ism...

Individuals capitalizing on practical science have been so good at it, there have been books written about how well technology can progress without 'book learning'. Unfortunately, those authors ignore one basic fact of scientific progress as stated by a highly accomplished amateur - "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

In modern times those giants would have to be the theoretical scientists.

102 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:44:28pm

re: #99 The Yankee

I wonder how many people that work for the oil industry are young earth creationist?

Probably about 46%.

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:45:35pm

So, in listening to the later parts of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer last night (well, in the wee hours) I was totally AND I DO MEAN TOTALLY freaked, disgusted and scared shitless by the outright EVIL of the Nazi leadership and those who carried out their orders.

It only reinforced what i already believe and try very hard to live:

No good comes from categorizing and labeling people.

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:46:05pm

re: #97 RayFerd

And the earth is the center of our universe. And there thar be dragons (demons) out there beyond the edges of the world.

FTFY

105 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:47:00pm

re: #94 Expand Your Ground

making progress in theoretical research is a joint, communal effort, one that cannot really be driven by short-term profit-seeking.

What was originally designed to provide capital for companies and a range of options for investors has become a electronic casino where traders aim to make money off the daily fluctuations in share values. This drives the short term strategies by the companies, and makes it less likely that a company will reinvest profits into expanding operations and creating new jobs. Better to report the profit and nudge the share prices upward.

106 jhrhv  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:47:33pm

re: #90 b_sharp

I wonder what people like this think to themselves when they go to a museum if they ever dare set foot in one.

Must be something like...God sure is mysterious with all these funny creatures. Boy did these scientists ever get it wrong though. They really should spend more time reading the bible. /dumb as a rock

107 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:50:28pm

re: #106 jhrhv

I wonder what people like this think to themselves when they go to a museum if they ever dare set foot in one.

Must be something like...God sure is mysterious with all these funny creatures. Boy did these scientists ever get it wrong though. They really should spend more time reading the bible. /dumb as a rock

Thats why we need school vouchers, so parents can send their kids to schools which don't teach those pesky facts.

108 Kragar  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:51:17pm
109 steve_davis  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:51:55pm

re: #3 Kragar

Looks like I was a thread early with this one:

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

Yes, it's just mind-blowing. According to two sources--Bishop Usher and Nicholas Copernicus (yes, THAT Nicolas Copernicus. Not just ANY Nicolas Copernicus, but Nicolas FUCKING Copernicus)-- tallied up the years and came to 4004 B.C. as the year that started the whole thing, with a summer of love that spawned all the vegetables and animals, a talking snake, and eventually, a rib-inspired helpmate, when Adam complained that the tiger kept overcooking the eggs. And somehow, through it all, in spite of a global flood that wiped everyone from the earth, the Egyptians not only kept plodding away in their Middle Kingdom dynasty, but they created an elaborate conspiracy to pretend that THE FLOOD HAD NEVER HAPPENED.

110 Mich-again  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:52:13pm

From the Bible, Isaiah 11: 12

He will set up a banner for the nations,
And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
And gather together the dispersed of Judah
From THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

The pictures from space that make the Earth appear to be a spheroid were photoshopped by the Devil. It says right there in the Bible that the Earth has four corners, thus it is flat, thus debunking all the speculation that the earth is round.

111 dragonath  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:52:45pm

Far right populism pretty much killed theoretical physics in Germany leading up to World War II. I think I read there was an entire missing generation of physicists because of the politicization of the school system.

112 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:53:07pm

re: #106 jhrhv

I wonder what people like this think to themselves when they go to a museum if they ever dare set foot in one.

Must be something like...God sure is mysterious with all these funny creatures. Boy did these scientists ever get it wrong though. They really should spend more time reading the bible. /dumb as a rock

If you want to find out, go visit Ken Ham's Masterpiece Theatre museum.

113 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:53:31pm

re: #106 jhrhv

I wonder what people like this think to themselves when they go to a museum if they ever dare set foot in one.

Must be something like...God sure is mysterious with all these funny creatures. Boy did these scientists ever get it wrong though. They really should spend more time reading the bible. /dumb as a rock

I wonder if any of them have ever been inside the Pantheon, still standing with its original roof after 2000 years. It's not possible to believe that such features as the Alps, let alone the severely eroded Appalachians, are only 3 times as old. I think creationism is as much an ethical as an intellectual problem. These people aren't just stupid, they are dishonest.

114 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:54:21pm

The the YEC and other Right Wing Whackos are just living their conscience.

/gah

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:54:51pm

re: #113 Shiplord Kirel

I wonder if any of them have ever been inside the Pantheon, still standing with its original roof after 2000 years. It's not possible to believe that such features as the Alps, let alone the severely eroded Appalachians, are only 3 times as old. I think creationism is as much an ethical as an intellectual problem. These people aren't just stupid, they are dishonest.

I think it was already mentioned, but IIRC Slartibartfast did that.

116 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:56:11pm

re: #115 ggt

Now, you're just pining for the fjords.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:57:09pm

re: #116 lawhawk

Now, you're just pining for the fjords.

Well, lately, I've been driving Jeeps.

118 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:58:16pm

re: #114 ggt

The the YEC and other Right Wing Whackos are just living their conscience.

/gah

Just like every evil group in history I suspect.

Sometimes rational choices are better than commitment to archaic traditions.

119 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 12:59:23pm

re: #117 ggt

Well, lately, I've been driving Jeeps.

I'm supposed to be outside right now fixing my Grand Cherokee, but I'm still a bit sore from Friday, so I'm sucking out.

120 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:00:54pm

.re: #108 Kragar

Perkins: Americans Will Never Accept Gay Marriage Because it 'Violates Reason and Natural Law'

Says the man talking for the YEC crowd.

I can't emphasize enough that gay rights and gay marriage are important for reasons well beyond the individual rights of a small percentage of the population, important as those are. Homophobia is the cultural right's top weapon for enforcing conformity and obedience. This is why they are so rabid over it. Long dominant authority structures and vested interests will crumble if they can't use the fear of the gay as a club to beat people, especially young men, into line. Free the gays and you will free everyone.

121 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:02:44pm

re: #120 Shiplord Kirel

.

I can't emphasize enough that gay rights and gay marriage are important for reasons well beyond the individual rights of a small percentage of the population, important as those are. Homophobia is the cultural right's top weapon for enforcing conformity and obedience. This is why they are so rabid over it. Long dominant authority structures and vested interests will crumble if they can't use the fear of the gay as a club to beat people, especially young men, into line. Free the gays and you will free everyone.

Young men can be a challenge, yet it's rather sad that Old men seem to need to use fear of teh ghey to control them.

Really? WWJD and all . . .

122 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:03:37pm

re: #108 Kragar

Perkins: Americans Will Never Accept Gay Marriage Because it 'Violates Reason and Natural Law'

Says the man talking for the YEC crowd.

Or the guy who uses a KKK leader's mailing list for supporters and proclaims himself a man of values and family.

123 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:06:11pm

re: #113 Shiplord Kirel

I wonder if any of them have ever been inside the Pantheon, still standing with its original roof after 2000 years. It's not possible to believe that such features as the Alps, let alone the severely eroded Appalachians, are only 3 times as old. I think creationism is as much an ethical as an intellectual problem. These people aren't just stupid, they are dishonest.

You must understand, to a YEC the important thing isn't actually a thoughtful and reverent belief and faith in God, nor is it in truly appreciating the supposed grandeur of creation. Instead, it is about trying to take every word in the Bible as literal, even if it goes against evidence, history, or seeing God as majestic. No, instead God must function in a dull and literal manner. The idea that perhaps creation could be so complicated and grand that the humans that wrote down the description of it could not comprehend it and simplified it greatly just never crosses their minds.

tl;dr YEC don't actually think that highly of God and God's ability.

124 jhrhv  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:10:12pm

re: #112 b_sharp

I can't look at it for more than a few seconds. I saw the word ark on a piece of wood looking something and had to close the page. Anyone who believes a 600 year old man built a ship from wood that held every known animal on the planet on it. Then the whole earth was flooded etc etc doesn't deserve more then a couple of seconds of my time.

I have better things to do like pick my nose for instance.

125 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:26:35pm

Funny how they harp about Islam and Sharia law being a threat to this country when the most likely and immediate threat to our way of life is their own perverted anti-science, anti-knowledge, anti-progress form of Christian belief.

126 MPH  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 2:29:50pm

41% of Democrats as young earth creationists is perhaps an even more stunning number.

If true, a very sad poll on the state of the State.

127 HeyTaxi  Mon, Jun 4, 2012 9:28:55pm

It's Republicans all the way down.

128 positivecrusader  Tue, Jun 5, 2012 2:39:37am

On a positive note, whereas the percentage of people who believe in creationism has increased only 2% since 1982, the percentage of those who believe in evolution has increased 6% since then. It's only the (arguably wishy-washy) God-aided evolution position which has lost ground, down by 6%.


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