TN Tea Party Groups Demand School Textbooks Overlook Slavery

Revisionist tea
Wingnuts • Views: 42,368

Remember the Tea Party — that reactionary right wing movement that helped lead the Republican Party into the fever swamp of madness?

Well, in places like Tennessee they found especially fertile ground, and that state’s Teabaggers are demanding that school textbooks leave out America’s history of slavery.

A little more than a year after the conservative-led state board of education in Texas approved massive changes to its school textbooks to put slavery in a more positive light, a group of Tea Party activists in Tennessee has renewed its push to whitewash school textbooks. The group is seeking to remove references to slavery and mentions of the country’s founders being slave owners.

According to reports, Hal Rounds, the Fayette County attorney and spokesman for the group, said during a recent news conference that there has been “an awful lot of made-up criticism about, for instance, the founders intruding on the Indians or having slaves or being hypocrites in one way or another.”

“The thing we need to focus on about the founders is that, given the social structure of their time, they were revolutionaries who brought liberty into a world where it hadn’t existed, to everybody — not all equally instantly — and it was their progress that we need to look at,” Rounds said, according to The Commercial Appeal.

During the news conference more than two dozen Tea Party activists handed out material that said, “Neglect and outright ill will have distorted the teaching of the history and character of the United States. We seek to compel the teaching of students in Tennessee the truth regarding the history of our nation and the nature of its government.”

And that further teaching would also include that “the Constitution created a Republic, not a Democracy.”

The group demanded, as they had in January of last year, that Tennessee lawmakers change state laws governing school curricula. The group called for textbook selection criteria to include: “No portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers, or the majority of citizens, including those who reached positions of leadership.”

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218 comments
1 nines09  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:43:55pm

Intro......Voice off camera...."You shall not speak ill of the Founders." Cut to face of Dr McCoy.... Dammit Jim!.......Followed by theme from Star Trek......

2 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:45:26pm

And the deification of our Founders continues, blessed be their names.

3 jaunte  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:46:34pm
"We seek to compel"

That's the TP spirit!

4 researchok  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:49:19pm

TP morons

5 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:49:58pm

Going to find a way to send this post to the NAACP. Wonder what Blacks in TN are doing about this outrage.

6 bratwurst  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:53:33pm

Unpossible...the Tea Party is only concerned with wasteful government spending and not racist at all! /

7 jaunte  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:54:21pm
The measures went as far as to replace instances of the trans-Atlantic slave trade with "Atlantic triangular trade."

Sugar from the Caribbean went to New England and Europe to be distilled into rum. The profits from the sugar sale purchased manufactured items, which were shipped to West Africa to purchase... something or other, which was taken across to the Caribbean to be sold to sugar planters so they could raise more crops...

8 Big Joe  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:57:35pm

How very Japanese of them.

9 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:58:34pm

re: #2 It's a cookbook!

And the deification of our Founders continues, blessed be their names.

I wonder if those textbooks from the Founding Father Fetishists of the Holy Teabag movement would feature this Benjamin Franklin quote:

The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law.

All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.

The first line alone would make wingnut heads explode like San Diego fireworks.

10 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:59:28pm

I was going to make a semi-serious remark about Eli Whitney's cotton gin making slavery obsolete. A bit of research shows that's not only wrong, but majorly ironic:

Eli Whitney is most famous for two innovations which later divided the United States in the mid-19th century: the cotton gin (1793) and his advocacy of interchangeable parts. In the South, the cotton gin revolutionized the way cotton was harvested and reinvigorated slavery. In the North the adoption of interchangeable parts revolutionized the manufacturing industry, and contributed greatly to their victory in the Civil War.

11 Kragar  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:08:12pm

You know what, just cut out the whole Civil War while you're at it, it was a real downer.
/

12 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:08:56pm

re: #10 abolitionist

I was going to make a semi-serious remark about Eli Whitney's cotton gin making slavery obsolete. A bit of research shows that's not only wrong, but majorly ironic:

Eli Whitney is most famous for two innovations which later divided the United States in the mid-19th century: the cotton gin (1793) and his advocacy of interchangeable parts. In the South, the cotton gin revolutionized the way cotton was harvested and reinvigorated slavery. In the North the adoption of interchangeable parts revolutionized the manufacturing industry, and contributed greatly to their victory in the Civil War.

Speaking of irony, the first slave owner in the colonies was Anthony Johnson

13 jaunte  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:10:19pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

He was the first slave owner Triangle Trader in the colonies.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:19:55pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Speaking of irony, the first slave owner in the colonies was Anthony Johnson

What a life. I wonder if anyone's written a novel about him.

15 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:24:34pm

So in other words teabaggers don't love real America, they love fake America.
Will they be redacting the 3/5 compromise in the Constitution as well? Just gonna skip over that I presume?

Just so we are clear for anyone who is still in doubt or willfully blind, the modern conservative movement and the tea party movement by extension is all about protecting whiteness and the historically privileged status of whiteness. Which they feel has been much maligned and that they are much aggrieved about. All of the butthurt that these people feel comes down to that. How else can you explain the furor over a comedian telling a joke about the first 4th of July that was historically accurate?

16 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:25:30pm

Talking about slavery is racist

17 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:28:44pm

re: #8 Big Joe

How very Japanese of them.

It's very Turkish as well.

18 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:30:16pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

What a life. I wonder if anyone's written a novel about him.

I doubt it. I think it's a bit too nuanced and racially charged story for out times. People are products of their era and it doesn't really translate well into today's political agendas. Maybe someday but not soon.

19 aagcobb  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:31:07pm

re: #11 Kragar

You know what, just cut out the whole Civil War while you're at it, it was a real downer.
/

Not if you teach about how the people of Tennessee bravely fought for their freedom against the tyrant Lincoln./

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:31:34pm

re: #7 jaunte

Sugar from the Caribbean went to New England and Europe to be distilled into rum. The profits from the sugar sale purchased manufactured items, which were shipped to West Africa to purchase... something or other, which was taken across to the Caribbean to be sold to sugar planters so they could raise more crops...

Yes, I've taught that class. It's not a big secret.

There's even a song about it.

Sorry I can't find the video. The man who acts this piece is gripping.

21 jaunte  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:31:48pm
After Johnson’s death in 1670, a court ruling set a precedent that would be an important factor in determining the social status of freed black men in the colonies. A white Virginian planter was allowed to seize Johnson’s land because a ruling by a local court that said, "as a black man, Anthony Johnson was not a citizen of the colony."

A slaveowner, but not really a full person.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:33:05pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

I doubt it. I think it's a bit too nuanced and racially charged story for out times. People are products of their era and it doesn't really translate well into today's political agendas. Maybe someday but not soon.

The person I've always wanted to write about is Molly Banneker. There's a children's book about her now.

23 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:36:18pm

Teabagganism is fundamentalist ideology

24 Mattand  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:38:35pm

Man, it's only a matter of time before the TP ups the ante and branches off into Holocaust denial.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:40:24pm

re: #24 Mattand

Man, it's only a matter of time before the TP ups the ante and branches off into Holocaust denial.

Not unless they think someone is suggesting they're responsible for it. That seems to be the thing that sets them off.

26 Ming  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:43:45pm

Well, I guess we won't find anything in Tennessee school textbooks about the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] According to Wikipedia, the treaty was signed by President John Adams, was ratified unanimously by the United States Senate, and included the words: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Not surprisingly, from what I see with Google, this treaty has provoked some right-wing denial-outrage in recent years.

27 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:44:34pm
“The thing we need to focus on about the founders is that, given the social structure of their time, they were revolutionaries who brought liberty into a world where it hadn’t existed, to everybody — not all equally instantly — and it was their progress that we need to look at,”

This guy is too much of a dick to realize his side still fights hard every day to hold back liberty for certain classes of people using explanations not all that different from how slavery was rationalized back then. He seems to be saying the ideal of equality for all was fully achieved when the slaves were freed ignoring that the fight is still going on for many people.

28 Mattand  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:45:29pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

Not unless they think someone is suggesting they're responsible for it. That seems to be the thing that sets them off.

You're probably right. It's anecdotal, but the people I know that have racial issues tend to dabble in anti-Semitism as well.

29 compound_Idaho  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:46:21pm

I picked up the tab for a young man to play American Legion baseball this summer. His parents were not at the tournament this weekend because they had to go to Vegas.

Screw the parents. I guess my money still allowed a kid to play ball one more season.

Makes you wonder how many jerks are just playing the system and the good will of others.

p.s. I got to watch the kid have a pretty good tournament. Too bad his parents missed it.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:48:19pm

re: #26 Ming

Well, I guess we won't find anything in Tennessee school textbooks about the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] According to Wikipedia, the treaty was signed by President John Adams, was ratified unanimously by the United States Senate, and included the words: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Not surprisingly, from what I see with Google, this treaty has provoked some right-wing denial-outrage in recent years.

It's rather funny. The TofT is interesting, and provides some insight into the mindset of the Founders as they wrestled with the piracy issue, but it's not a particularly important document.

Unfortunately, it contains two explosive items--one, a clear statement that the United States is not founded on Christianity, and two, a rather warm attitude toward "Mahometans".

The entire narrative has been taken up by the wingnuts, who see it as a resounding lesson in the abiding evil of Islam learned by a naive U.S., which we oughta have remembered, obsessively, for all the intervening time, and...profit. I forget the middle part.

31 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:51:12pm

re: #29 compound_Idaho

I picked up the tab for a young man to play American Legion baseball this summer. His parents were not at the tournament this weekend because they had to go to Vegas.

Screw the parents. I guess my money still allowed a kid to play ball one more season.

Makes you wonder how many jerks are just playing the system and the good will of others.

p.s. I got to watch the kid have a pretty good tournament. Too bad his parents missed it.

It's not the kid's fault, for sure, but the parents sound like shitheads.

It's nice that you sponsored the kid this summer, because it doesn't sound like the parents give two shits about anything but themselves.

32 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:54:20pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

It's rather funny. The TofT is interesting, and provides some insight into the mindset of the Founders as they wrestled with the piracy issue, but it's not a particularly important document.

Unfortunately, it contains two explosive items--one, a clear statement that the United States is not founded on Christianity, and two, a rather warm attitude toward "Mahometans".

The entire narrative has been taken up by the wingnuts, who see it as a resounding lesson in the abiding evil of Islam learned by a naive U.S., which we oughta have remembered, obsessively, for all the intervening time, and...profit. I forget the middle part.

Us sane Tennesseans just can't catch a break here lately from the wingnutalypse, can we?

33 renata39.5  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:56:44pm

re: #10 abolitionist

I was going to make a semi-serious remark about Eli Whitney's cotton gin making slavery obsolete. A bit of research shows that's not only wrong, but majorly ironic:

Eli Whitney is most famous for two innovations which later divided the United States in the mid-19th century: the cotton gin (1793) and his advocacy of interchangeable parts. In the South, the cotton gin revolutionized the way cotton was harvested and reinvigorated slavery. In the North the adoption of interchangeable parts revolutionized the manufacturing industry, and contributed greatly to their victory in the Civil War.

I grew up hearing the myth that, given time, the cotton gin would've made slavery obsolete. How I swallowed that for so long is a bit boggling to me now. It wasn't until I taught 5th grade American history that I learned better. Making cotton easier to gin actually means you can grow a whole lot more of it than you could before since you can gin it faster and in greater volume. The "Whitney's cotton gin would have eliminated slavery eventually" myth is still alive and well in the South, though.

34 compound_Idaho  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:59:17pm

re: #31 SunshineSuperman

It's not the kid's fault, for sure, but the parents sound like shitheads.

It's nice that you sponsored the kid this summer, because it doesn't sound like the parents give two shits about anything but themselves.

Thanks. I brought it up here, because I could not at the ball field and I need (well maybe just wanted) to vent.

Hey, I just noticed that "shithead" does not come up as a spelling error on my spell check. Does anyone know if "shit head" is also acceptable?

35 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:08:12pm

Well, you all know my Standing Answer to this crap:

Youtube Video
36 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:08:16pm

Ha:

The #BothSidesDont hashtag was started by @Shoq, and the wingnuts who are trying to troll it merely serve to reinforce its points.

37 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:15:42pm

No latent homophobia here:

38 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:15:45pm

re: #11 Kragar

You know what, just cut out the whole Civil War while you're at it, it was a real downer.
/

No, they intend to keep in the battles the South won, cut out the battles the North won, and then order teachers to insinuate that the South was only conquered because Abraham Lincoln made a pact with Satan.

/kidding (I hope)

39 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:31:00pm
40 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:33:29pm

Hillbillies. If you are going to completely reinvent history and pull shit out of your ass, do it fucking right.

Youtube Video
41 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:35:58pm
Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.

― George Orwell

42 palomino  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:37:38pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

No, they intend to keep in the battles the South won, cut out the battles the North won, and then order teachers to insinuate that the South was only conquered because Abraham Lincoln made a pact with Satan.

/kidding (I hope)

Have you spent much time in the South? A lot of conservative whites there STILL hate Lincoln...150 years after he got shot in the head. If this isn't the definition of bitter unwillingness to let things go, I don't know what is.

Fortunately, black Americans know their own history, as well as most others in America....and they'll defeat this attempt to literally and figuratively whitewash history.

If it weren't for revisionism, the modern GOP would have no sense of history whatsoever. The TN TP is far more offensive than a thousand tweets by Chris Rock ever could be.

43 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:46:02pm

re: #42 palomino

No, I haven't spent a lot of time in the South, but I do know how they regard Lincoln. But to see real Southern anger, just try mentioning Gen Sherman. My mother is from the Asheville, NC area. North Carolina was spared deliberate destruction by Sherman's army (the state was full of anti-war sentiment which he wanted to encourage), but even there Sherman's 'no burning' policy availed his reputation not. In the circles my mother grew up in, Gen. Sherman remains a hate-figure.

44 dragonath  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:51:31pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Speaking of irony, the first slave owner in the colonies was Anthony Johnson

Funny how for some, being greedy transcends everything.

re: #2 It's a cookbook!

And the deification of our Founders continues, blessed be their names.

Benjamin Franklin: "Fart Proudly"

45 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:02:21pm

Good Night, all.

46 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:06:44pm

re: #32 SunshineSuperman

Those people who have lost a sense of history, are going to relive it themselves.

47 jaunte  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:09:29pm
48 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:27:09pm

Since the topic is "Tea Party" and thus synonymous with, put very bluntly, stupidity in our land, here is another example, from today, from the land of Oklahoma:

'God particle' sure to draw debate

Bring up the topics of evolution, creationism or intelligent design and you are bound to stir someone's emotions during the conversation.

Into this heated debate comes the Higgs boson, or the so-called “God particle,” which scientists unveiled on Wednesday.

[...]

This is a good example of, well, how easily humans can be persuaded by language. Simply, as one physicist did, attach the English word "god" to something, even in passing and with only an analogy intended, and all of a sudden, because humans are magickal thinkers, and because "God" is a magick word, whammmo - presto - all and anything that can be associated with this magick word becomes one.

There are some who would surmise that the Higgs boson proves that God had nothing to do with creation.

Others say the discovery of the subatomic particle proves/doesn't prove anything about religion, one way or the other.

And there you have it — the makings of a huge debate.

No. Just, No.

The "debate" about which the OK newspaper writes has never had anything to do with the Higgs boson or any other boson for that matter or Professor Higgs.

It's just backwards, fearful minded humans not willing to give up cherished beliefs which have given them (some would say false) comfort.

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:29:52pm

Ooooh, do we get to re-write things the way we wanted them to happen, rather than the way they actually did?

Okay, then Joan of Arc was taken to heaven on the back of a white-winged dove, rather than having been burnt at the stake.

Wow, that was easy and satisfying.

50 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:30:29pm

First, the ad:

Youtube Video

Then the Fox spin:

Romney, though, has not taken that position publicly.

In response, the Romney campaign pointed to Romney’s op-ed last year in the National Review titled “My Pro-Life Pledge” in which he said abortion should be “limited to only instances of rape, incest or to save the life of a mother.”

Then the basis for the claim in the ad:

JOURNEY: Hi. My name is Journey. I'm from Texas. And this question is for all (inaudible) pro-life candidates.

In the event that abortion becomes illegal and a woman obtains an abortion anyway, what should she be charged with, and what should her punishment be? What about the doctor who performs the abortion?

...

ROMNEY: I agree with Senator Thompson, which is we should overturn Roe v. Wade and return these issues to the states.

ROMNEY: I would welcome a circumstance where there was such a consensus in this country that we said, we don't want to have abortion in this country at all, period. That would be wonderful. I'd be delighted.

COOPER: The question is: Would you sign that bill?

ROMNEY: Let me say it. I'd be delighted to sign that bill. But that's not where we are. That's not where America is today. Where America is is ready to overturn Roe v. Wade and return to the states that authority. But if the Congress got there, we had that kind of consensus in that country, terrific.

In fact the ad is correct. Romney couched his support in typical weaselly and conditional terms, if there was a consensus. Basically he's saying that he thinks women's rights in this country should be subject to public opinion, but if and only if that public opinion lines up with his own personal beliefs. Otherwise he'll decimate those rights incrementally, by seeking to overturn Roe v. Wade and returning the issue to the state legislatures.

This behavior is utterly gutless, utterly lacking in leadership, and utterly untrustworthy. This is why Romney constantly gets dinged as having no personal integrity, because he and his campaign are willing to lie and equivocate whenever possible.

51 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:38:46pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

52 palomino  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:45:30pm

re: #51 Interesting Times

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

Nothing I can think of. He was a self-described moderate progressive Republican when running for office in liberal MA. He then retroactively transformed himself (rhetorically anyway) into a severely conservative Governor when running for the gop nod.

His mealy mouthed responses on abortion are a good example. His seeking to overturn Roe is a joke. Only way that happens is a SC decision, over which he has no direct control; OR a constitutional amendment, which has no chance of the 2/3 and 3/4 supermajorities needed for passage. And the amendment process has no direct role for the president anyway.

53 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:57:11pm

We had a class activity in which we had the kids act out the Continental Congress. The southern states had specific instructions to behave the way that they really did, with the priorities those state actually had.

We never declared Independence, because our North Carolina behaved true to history, and the other kids refused to take out the anti-slavery language that the south had originally objected to.

They got a real lesson about slavery and the beginnings of this country, namely, that it was present, as a subject, at every major point in our early history.

Even back then, the South wanted you to just shut up about history and pretend it was all okay. Kind of like if there's a rotting squirrel on the dinner table and we all have to act like it's all good.

54 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:58:47pm

Joke on facebook:

The Higgs Boson walks into a church.
The priest says "we don't allow Higgs Bosons in here."
The Higgs Boson says, "but without me, how can you have Mass?"

hahahahahaha

Geek joke.

55 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:00:28pm

re: #54 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Joke on facebook:

The Higgs Boson walks into a church.
The priest says "we don't allow Higgs Bosons in here."
The Higgs Boson says, "but without me, how can you have Mass?"

hahahahahaha

Geek joke.

*groan*

///

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:01:17pm

re: #48 freetoken

Since the topic is "Tea Party" and thus synonymous with, put very bluntly, stupidity in our land

Whenever I hear a candidate described as a "Tea Party favorite" or "Tea Party-backed", my brain automatically interprets it as short hand for "Proudly-Ignorant Belligerent Maniac." May not be fair, and I'll never claim it's unbiased, but it's certainly a convenient supplement to the bullshit detector.

57 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:01:51pm

The Iroquois, which the founders were VERY familiar with had and still have the oldest participatory democracy in the world! Even women and children were allowed to vote!
So how did the founders bring liberty into this world where it never existed IF IT ALREADY EXSISTED? Wtf?

Also, Tennessee really surprises me with their new found criticisms with Native Americans since so many in that state ARE DESCENDED FROM THEM!
Fucking evangelical fundies have really done a number on that state. Pisses me off.

58 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:10:34pm

re: #56 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Yeah, it may not be "fair", but it is a stereotype that fits all too well.

It really is not a very good thing - to be able to pigeonhole people so easily. Yet the last 4 years has shown this self-described, self-associating phenomenon of "tea party" to be the most backward seeking political movement in my lifetime.

59 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:17:30pm

re: #58 freetoken

It really is not a very good thing - to be able to pigeonhole people so easily. Yet the last 4 years has shown this self-described, self-associating phenomenon of "tea party" to be the most backward seeking political movement in my lifetime.

I think the word teabillies sums it up pretty good.

60 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:30:48pm

Speaking of re-writing history:

De Soto discovery could change history books

Hernando De Soto's route through Florida is as elusive to modern archaeologists as the gold the famed Spanish explorer sought throughout the southeastern United States.

Ever since De Soto's 600 men set foot on the shores of Tampa Bay, arriving from Cuba almost 500 years ago, historians have debated the exact direction of his failed treasure-hunting expeditions as far north as Tennessee and North Carolina.

But in north Marion County, an archaeologist has found what his contemporaries deem rarer than the gold De Soto was seeking — physical evidence of the explorer's precise journey through Marion County and enough information to redraw Florida De Soto maps and fuel many more archaeological digs based on his findings.

[...]

Interesting video at link.

61 SteveMcG  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:31:54pm

re: #51 Interesting Times

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

Romneycare!

62 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:48:18pm

Finally, the important news items of the day:

Kim Kardashian Planning Boob Lift

And ... what's this... already?


Is Kim Kardashian Cheating on Kanye West?

63 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:50:15pm

What is this talk about slavery in the Good Ol' US of A?

Never happened! We are a free people! Why, if we weren't, can you imagine the level of hate that would be directed toward former chattel slaves?

Ahem. // Need I?

OT:

Well the Texas Roller Girls match between the Rhinestone Cowgirls and the Cherry Bombs was an absolute hoot! A 2 1/2 block walk from the house and $15 apiece to get in the doors. That was 3 1/2 hours of entertainment value. If you have this sport in your town, go see it. It's just a frggin' blast.

64 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:54:13pm

If you got trapped on a desert island with one soul, I'd pick Neil deGrasse Tyson over Kardashian, even though she is really pretty.

The physical beauty can be fleeting. The mind, enduring.

65 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:57:40pm

re: #64 Kronocide

If you got trapped on a desert island with one soul, I'd pick Neil deGrasse Tyson over Kardashian, even though she is really pretty.

The physical beauty can be fleeting. The mind, enduring.

Yeah, but it's a desert island. After a point intellectual conversation doesn't feed the bulldog.

Hello Charlize Theron!

66 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 11:18:16pm

re: #65 austin_blue

Speaking of having conversation partners, I don't know how many people here use Yahoo! News to check headlines, but I notice that the headline writers and editors who choose the articles and videos are definitely going down-market/ younger-target.

Increasingly non-objective, increasingly volatile, and simpler vocabulary, etc.

Pretty much all it is good for are the local links - Yahoo! News compiles source streams from any given area, for me that would be the San Diego media who have online presence.

67 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 11:22:14pm

re: #66 freetoken

Speaking of having conversation partners, I don't know how many people here use Yahoo! News to check headlines, but I notice that the headline writers and editors who choose the articles and videos are definitely going down-market/ younger-target.

Increasingly non-objective, increasingly volatile, and simpler vocabulary, etc.

Pretty much all it is good for are the local links - Yahoo! News compiles source streams from any given area, for me that would be the San Diego media who have online presence.

That's a pity. It reminds me of this:

[Link: video.search.yahoo.com...]

68 freetoken  Sat, Jul 7, 2012 11:53:46pm

1924, from Paul Whiteman and George Gershwin:

MP3 Audio
69 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:10:13am

re: #68 freetoken

1924, from Paul Whiteman and George Gershwin:

[Embedded content]

Good one!

Here's Bela Bartok, Benny Goodwin, and Joseph Szigeti playing Bartok's "Contrasts". Good stuff!

Youtube Video
70 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:14:06am

Charles Johnson,

To think I once supported the Tea Party. Its just one more thing in a long line of mistakes I made. The entire thing is turning into one big heaping pile of fail.

71 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:16:10am

Charles Johnson,

To tell the truth, this thing with the Tea Party and Slavery is really revealing. To be fair I don't think that all Members of the tea party support this, but this, but it seems that so many of its members have what are really bad ideas, that will do more harm than good.

72 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:26:46am

MST3K - 0617 - The Sword And The Dragon

Youtube Video
73 freetoken  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:40:35am

re: #72 Kragar

You notice how the good guys are white folk and the bad guys are East Asian looking?

74 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 12:44:18am

re: #73 freetoken

You notice how the good guys are white folk and the bad guys are East Asian looking?

In Soviet Russia...

Actually, as far as the legend goes, its actually pretty accurate.

75 researchok  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:07:36am

Morning, all

76 researchok  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:13:10am

re: #68 freetoken

Great, great great.

77 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:17:51am

So upon review, the new edition of Warhammer has become much shootier, plus it allows me to legally combine armies I already own into much larger forces.

Youtube Video
78 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:34:25am

re: #51 Interesting Times

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

Image: article.jpg

79 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:37:46am

re: #51 Interesting Times

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

Youtube Video
80 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:38:37am

Ted Nugent wishes the south had won the Civil War.

Chief Justice Roberts squandered the opportunity to restore judicial, financial and legislative sanity to a government that by any sane person’s standards is insane and addicted to centralized federal control of our lives.

Because our legislative, judicial and executive branches of government hold the 10th Amendment in contempt, I’m beginning to wonder if it would have been best had the South won the Civil War. Our Founding Fathers’ concept of limited government is dead.

81 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:41:06am

re: #80 Amory Blaine

Ted Nugent wishes the south had won the Civil War.

Nuge wishes he had been able to bravely shit all over himself so he could have avoided fighting in the Confederate Army.

82 freetoken  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:08:34am

From whence does this "Tea Party" arise?

Hypothesis: Listen to the NBC news from Feb 6, 1948, to the part (which is in the first section) covering the Southern governors' response to Truman:

MP3 Audio
83 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:25:12am

re: #51 Interesting Times

On a related note, can anyone name a single brave thing Romney has ever done?

I heard one day he ate his dinner with the cork off his fork.

84 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:26:42am

re: #83 ozbloke

I heard one day he ate his dinner with the cork off his fork.

"OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA!"

85 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:27:41am

re: #84 Kragar

"OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA!"

We have a winner.
Someone give this man the cupie doll.

86 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:29:42am

re: #85 ozbloke

We have a winner.
Someone give this man the cupie doll.

Of course, my favorite line was:

"May I have permission to go to the bathroom?"
"Yes, you may."
".... Thank you."

87 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:32:46am

re: #86 Kragar

Of course, my favorite line was:

"May I have permission to go to the bathroom?"
"Yes, you may."
"... Thank you."

It was a great comedy, I am a Steve Martin fan, standup comedy, acting, whatever.
Oh, great banjo player too.

Watched 'The Jerk' a couple of nights ago for the umpteenth time, still funny.

Best Line?
Wait a minute - what's happening to my special purpose!?

88 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:36:07am

re: #87 ozbloke

It was a great comedy, I am a Steve Martin fan, standup comedy, acting, whatever.
Oh, great banjo player too.

Watched 'The Jerk' a couple of nights ago for the umpteenth time, still funny.

Best Line?
Wait a minute - what's happening to my special purpose!?

Ah, back in the days when Steve was still funny.

89 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:40:08am

re: #88 Kragar

Ah, back in the days when Steve was still funny.

Showing my age.
It would be fair to say I really enjoyed his early comedies.

Planes, Trains and Auto mobiles might be my favourite, very funny with an thoughtful ending.

90 Kragar  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:44:18am

re: #89 ozbloke

Showing my age.
It would be fair to say I really enjoyed his early comedies.

Planes, Trains and Auto mobiles might be my favourite, very funny with an thoughtful ending.

My Blue Heaven was his best.

91 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 2:49:07am

re: #90 Kragar

My Blue Heaven was his best.

I will have to have a peek for it at the DVD librariy, I don't think I've seen it.

Just watching a trailer for it.

92 freetoken  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 3:06:19am

Since the time machine is still set to 1948, and not unrelated to the TP atavism, here is the Stassen-Dewey debate from May 17, 1948. Both were of course running for the GOP nomination. The topic of the debate was this: " Should The Communist Party Be Outlawed?".

There's a lot to learn here, not the least of which national politicians at one time actually had to present arguments for their positions, in an adversarial setting. Also note the side comments about other issues beside the main question.

It's lengthy, but I think worth it.

The Tea Partiers have a fantasy view of the past. Life was never simple or without conflict between political goals, and I contend that many of their alleged champions of American history, if alive today, would not, contra the TP'ers assumptions, support the positions of the TPers.

MP3 Audio
94 researchok  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 3:28:23am

re: #82 freetoken

Good catch

I also liked the part (toward the end) when newsman noted the politics of hyping a so so economy for political gain during an election year.

Plus ca change and all that.

95 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 4:16:36am

Morning all. Did anyone else notice this story is from Jan 2011? We talked about it at the time:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

96 freetoken  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 4:22:44am

re: #95 RogueOne

Yes, but as I linked in #82, one could have written this headline in 1948.

97 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 4:27:43am

re: #96 freetoken

Are you suggesting some things never change?/

98 freetoken  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 4:30:21am

re: #97 RogueOne

Are you suggesting some things never change?/

At least the Tea Partiers.

99 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:17:02am

re: #93 freetoken

Right-wing Dutch politician urges U.S. lawmakers not to build new mosques

Iceweasel posted some results of that urging. In brief one of the two GOP Colorado state senators (Kevin Grantham) quoted said that mosques are not churches like we would think of churches. They think of mosques more as a foothold into a society, as a foothold into a community, more in the cultural and in the nationalistic sense. The other state sen., also with the personal name of Kevin but with the surname of Lundberg, had a rather different reply: "We’re a free society, and there are risks with freedom. In my mind, we need to give every citizen the opportunity to succeed or fail on their merits, and there are limits we have to put in place for certain public safety issues, but I am much more a stronger defender of the First Amendment than I am of immediately restricting people because of a perceived concern. (bolding in original in both cases)

So there you have it: One Kevin is sane and the other has been seduced by Gellerism.

100 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:23:43am
101 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:25:29am

re: #100 Gus

[Embedded content]

Could we please ship both of those screwballs to Russia and leave them there? Pretty please?

///

102 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:26:13am

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Could we please ship both of those screwballs to Russia and leave them there? Pretty please?

///

I was thinking perhaps Farah should seek asylum in Ecuador or move to Rio.

//

103 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:28:30am

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Could we please ship both of those screwballs to Russia and leave them there? Pretty please?

///

/ Why what would Russia have done to deserve them?

104 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:28:48am

re: #95 RogueOne

Morning all. Did anyone else notice this story is from Jan 2011? We talked about it at the time:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'm sure they got better.

//

105 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:30:52am

re: #103 ozbloke

/ Why what would Russia have done to deserve them?

They have to live somewhere, and its better for America if that somewhere isn't here.

106 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:34:18am

Drones, aliens, birth certificates, cyanide, fluoride, chemtrails, inside jobs, polonium...

Praise the Lord and pass the Thorazine.

107 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:36:32am

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

They have to live somewhere, and its better for America if that somewhere isn't here.

I think sometimes some of them sound like they are from another planet.
Perhaps another planet might do.

108 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:37:51am

How to get attention in today's "news" environment.

Say anything.

109 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:38:22am

re: #107 ozbloke

I think sometimes some of them sound like they are from another planet.
Perhaps another planet might do.

Only two planets might be good fits for that pair: either Mars or Uranus.

110 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:38:36am

re: #108 Gus

How to get attention in today's "news" environment.

Say anything.

The more 'out there' the better.

111 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:40:19am

re: #110 ozbloke

The more 'out there' the better.

It's the "History Channel biz model."

112 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:42:31am

Por ejemplo. Don't talk about the Higgs boson. Just focus on the "GOD particle" and then start talking fluff about "God and stuff." Perhaps invite the intellectual observations from such academic luminaries as Barbara Walters or S.E. Cupp. Physics and science it teh hard.

Coming up next. Defense analysis from Toure.

113 ozbloke  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:42:45am

re: #111 Gus

It's the "History Channel biz model."

I think it has got worse since cable news.

114 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:44:21am

re: #111 Gus

It's the "History Channel biz model."

History Channel Program Sequence: Insightful and original, cliched hackjob, DERP!, unoriginal but informative, Conspiracy DERP!, cliched hackjob, DERP!, Late Night Infomerical.

///

115 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:49:00am

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

History Channel Program Sequence: Insightful and original, cliched hackjob, DERP!, unoriginal but informative, Conspiracy DERP!, cliched hackjob, DERP!, Late Nigh Infomerical.

///

TruTV!!

How giant agri-business and Big Chemical is secretly putting genetically modified food into the food stream with plans of secretly mutating Americans into none thinking sheeple!!

Take it away Dave.

116 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 5:54:54am

Kind of funny. The buzz on Twitter is about climate change being covered on #uppers on MSNBC. Of course this leads to lots of ridicule of Fox News and of course Republicans. The reality is that while Fox News is busy putting out "climate change fiction" outfits like MSNBC do no better by ignoring the topic. Blaming others and ridicule is not a solution but what the heck do I know.

117 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:00:50am

re: #115 Gus

TruTV!!

How giant agri-business and Big Chemical is secretly putting genetically modified food into the food stream with plans of secretly mutating Americans into none thinking sheeple!!

Take it away Dave.

History Channel show I'd like to see:

TeaBag History Theater 2013

Wingnut members of the Tea Party are locked in an auditorium and shown programs that depict the reality of key events in American history. Watch the epic freak-outs when the evangelicals are forced to hear ideas that contradict the lies Bryan Fischer told them. Witness the screams of rage when Star and Bars-carrying gun rights defenders from the South learn that the first 10 NRA presidents were all former Union officers. As the rage and butthurt get worse, heads start exploding. The last two raging wingnuts alive win an all-expenses paid trip to Branson, MO. Anyone who does not rage against the truth is detained for the follow-on show, RINO Hunt.

//snicker

118 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:01:35am

re: #116 Gus

Kind of funny. The buzz on Twitter is about climate change being covered on #uppers on MSNBC. Of course this leads to lots of ridicule of Fox News and of course Republicans. The reality is that while Fox News is busy putting out "climate change fiction" outfits like MSNBC do no better by ignoring the topic. Blaming others and ridicule is not a solution but what the heck do I know.

DERP! is a preferred human reaction to complex problems.

119 Mattand  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:03:58am

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

History Channel show I'd like to see:

TeaBag History Theater 2013

//snicker

You could have the silhouettes of a Founding Father and two guys in tricorne hats sitting in the right hand corner of the TV screen.

120 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:05:01am

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

History Channel show I'd like to see:

TeaBag History Theater 2013

//snicker

Coming up next! What if the Tea Party had increased production of the ME-262!

What if!

121 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:07:26am

re: #120 Gus

Coming up next! What if the Tea Party had increased production of the ME-262!

What if!

Never could have happened. Centralized military production planning is Communism, don'tcha know!

122 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:11:30am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Coming up next! Did alien technology assist the Nazis in the creation of the V-1 and V-2 rockets? Recently revealed, formerly classified documents, reveal this may be the case including film footage of Hitler talking to dogs using mental telepathy.
-- History Channel

123 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:12:18am

re: #122 Gus

Coming up next! Did alien technology assist the Nazis in the creation of the V-1 and V-2 rockets! Recently revealed, formerly classified documents, reveal this may be the case including film footage of Hitler talking to dogs using mental telepathy.
-- History Channel

Keep it going Gus, you're on a roll!

124 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:13:29am

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Keep it going Gus, you're on a roll!

Image: aliens-comming.jpg

125 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:13:53am

Image: aliens.jpg

126 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:16:17am

How did humans build the pyramids?

Aliens showed them how.

127 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:16:55am

Were the Wright brothers in communication with alien beings?

Next, on the History Channel.

128 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:17:51am

How did Einstein discover the theory of relativity?

Aliens showed him how.

129 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:18:26am

Image: George-Tsoukalos_Aliens.jpg

130 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:21:08am

re: #128 Gus

How did Einstein discover the theory of relativity?

Aliens showed him how.

Enough with the Aliens, though. You're missing a large and important History Channel topic: Kennedy Assassination Speculation!

131 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:22:53am

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Enough with the Aliens, though. You're missing a large and important History Channel topic: Kennedy Assassination Speculation!

Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

I'm a "skeptic" but I also believe in bullshit too!

//

132 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:31:41am

One must have FAITH in science!

133 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:33:40am

Think I'll do some early morning errands today.

BBL

134 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 6:43:51am

I was discussing with a friend what could succeed the bizarre "holocaust denier" movement, and we both identified "U.S. Slave Trade Denial" as a possibility.

I guess it's coming!

135 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:03:33am

Some potential good news...
Libya's liberals claim early lead after free elections

137 dragonath  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:45:15am

This is too bad:

Apple Pulls Products from Environmental EPEAT Registry

"According to my EPEAT contacts, Apple’s mobile design direction is in conflict with the intended direction of the standard. Specifically, the standard lays out particular requirements for product “disassemble-ability,” a very important consideration for recycling: “External enclosures, chassis, and electronic subassemblies shall be removable with commonly available tools or by hand.”

138 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:56:04am

re: #137 Be Zorch, Daddio

This is too bad:

Apple Pulls Products from Environmental EPEAT Registry

No surprise to me. It's Apple©.

139 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:56:30am

re: #136 Millicent Islam

Here Are The 18 Countries That Beat America In Quality Of Having-A-Vagina Life

Why do you hate America?

140 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:57:27am

re: #134 ReamWorks SKG

I was discussing with a friend what could succeed the bizarre "holocaust denier" movement, and we both identified "U.S. Slave Trade Denial" as a possibility.

I guess it's coming!

I mentioned this to Ice yesterday. Ain't that right Ice?

141 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:01:56am

Let me see if I can find something from Iran.

//

142 Gus  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:05:07am

Later.

143 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:12:19am

I'm sure some Muslims did something bad somewhere somehow today. It should be discussed thoroughly.

144 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:13:50am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Actually the reason the Me-262 never got into production is lack of centralized planning.

Hitler reduced Germany to the status of a feudal kingdom where the various feudatories competed to get the blessing of the king (Hitler). They couldn't plan for the future because it was far more important that their feudatory get more power than whether better equipment get into production.

If Nazi Germany had been properly planning for the war I believe the best the Allies could have done was a draw.

145 The Left  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:20:44am

re: #140 Gus

I mentioned this to Ice yesterday. Ain't that right Ice?

hey Gus-- I missed you! Anyway, yes, that's right-- you mentioned it just yesterday.

146 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:29:48am

This should be interesting: Egyptian President Mursi reverses parliament dissolution

Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has ordered parliament to reconvene, a month after it was dissolved.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:41:59am

re: #49 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Ooooh, do we get to re-write things the way we wanted them to happen, rather than the way they actually did?

Okay, then Joan of Arc was taken to heaven on the back of a white-winged dove, rather than having been burnt at the stake.

Wow, that was easy and satisfying.

Marge Simpson?

148 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:45:43am

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Enough with the Aliens, though. You're missing a large and important History Channel topic: Kennedy Assassination Speculation!

Ancient aliens killed Kennedy to prevent us from finding their secret moon base.

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:45:52am

re: #93 freetoken

Right-wing Dutch politician urges U.S. lawmakers not to build new mosques

Can someone explain to Mr. Wilders that this is a free-market economy, and that we have separation of church and state? Lawmakers don't build mosques. People who want to build a mosque raise the money, and then hire a contractor, after fighting with zoning laws for several years. So it has always been done.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:53:03am

It's morning and I just don't care.

You?

151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:53:37am

re: #148 Varek Raith

Ancient aliens killed Kennedy to prevent us from finding their secret moon base.

I KNEW IT!

152 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:53:39am

re: #150 ggt

It's morning and I just don't care.

You?

Image: a13eb64a-bffc-4030-96ae-b78c6d0ee255.jpg

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:54:51am

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Iceweasel posted some results of that urging. In brief one of the two GOP Colorado state senators (Kevin Grantham) quoted said that mosques are not churches like we would think of churches. They think of mosques more as a foothold into a society, as a foothold into a community, more in the cultural and in the nationalistic sense. The other state sen., also with the personal name of Kevin but with the surname of Lundberg, had a rather different reply: "We’re a free society, and there are risks with freedom. In my mind, we need to give every citizen the opportunity to succeed or fail on their merits, and there are limits we have to put in place for certain public safety issues, but I am much more a stronger defender of the First Amendment than I am of immediately restricting people because of a perceived concern. (bolding in original in both cases)

So there you have it: One Kevin is sane and the other has been seduced by Gellerism.

There are a bunch of mosques in the area I work in, parts of SF, etc. I have no idea what's going on inside (roll the tapes from Pam's brain for details), but the impact on the community has been minimal and benign. It's like these people can't stop seeing Tariq ibn Ziyad, with his army arrayed behind him, and actually focus on the small business owners and IT guys who attend these places.

All that aside, there's simply no way in U.S. law to decide that one religion gets less freedom to practice than another religion. It can't be done, without doing worse damage to our customs and way and of life than any number of jihadi corner store owners could possibly ever do.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:55:22am

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

They have to live somewhere, and its better for America if that somewhere isn't here.

Plus, Russia is very big. I'm sure they could find somewhere to put them where they wouldn't bother anyone.

155 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:58:04am

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

Plus, Russia is very big. I'm sure they could find somewhere to put them where they wouldn't bother anyone.

Why do you hate snow?

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:59:15am

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Iceweasel posted some results of that urging. In brief one of the two GOP Colorado state senators (Kevin Grantham) quoted said that mosques are not churches like we would think of churches. They think of mosques more as a foothold into a society, as a foothold into a community, more in the cultural and in the nationalistic sense. The other state sen., also with the personal name of Kevin but with the surname of Lundberg, had a rather different reply: "We’re a free society, and there are risks with freedom. In my mind, we need to give every citizen the opportunity to succeed or fail on their merits, and there are limits we have to put in place for certain public safety issues, but I am much more a stronger defender of the First Amendment than I am of immediately restricting people because of a perceived concern. (bolding in original in both cases)

So there you have it: One Kevin is sane and the other has been seduced by Gellerism.

Yep, just reinforce already held fears and predjudices some people have and hope it carries all the way to the election.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 8:59:19am

re: #136 Millicent Islam

Here Are The 18 Countries That Beat America In Quality Of Having-A-Vagina Life

That Ireland could make the list really says something about the last twenty or thirty years there.

158 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:00:29am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

That Ireland could make the list really says something about the last twenty or thirty years there.

There was a time in which they would stop 16-18 year old girls from going to England if they were alone --for fear they were going to have an abortion. Which, of course, was illegal in Ireland.

159 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:01:31am

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

The mosque nearest to me has an awesome Middle eastern/Halal market next door. On the other side is a tattoo parlor that specializes in genital piercings and a hydroponics store for pot growers. Everybody seems to get along just fine.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:01:47am

re: #155 Varek Raith

Why do you hate snow?

Aliens brought snow to the Earth. Before the invasion, we never had snow.

161 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:01:56am

re: #159 Killgore Trout

The mosque nearest to me has an awesome Middle eastern/Halal market next door. On the other side is a tattoo parlor that specializes in genital piercings and a hydroponics store for pot growers. Everybody seems to get along just fine.

It's the pot.

162 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:02:32am

re: #161 Varek Raith

It's the pot.

Not the kettle?

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:03:23am

re: #158 ggt

There was a time in which they would stop 16-18 year old girls from going to England if they were alone --for fear they were going to have an abortion. Which, of course, was illegal in Ireland.

Still is, with a 'mother's life' exception.

When I first visited in the 90s, divorce was still unavailable, and contraception was iffy and hard to get. (The bishops had reluctantly agreed to allow condoms to be sold in drugstores, at the chemist's individual moral discretion, but only for the prevention of disease, mind you.)

Things have changed a lot.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:04:25am

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Still is, with a 'mother's life' exception.

When I first visited in the 90s, divorce was still unavailable, and contraception was iffy and hard to get. (The bishops had reluctantly agreed to allow condoms to be sold in drugstores, at the chemist's individual moral discretion, but only for the prevention of disease, mind you.)

Things have changed a lot.

When I lived in Cincinnati in the 90's the condoms were behind the pharmacy counter. . . . .

165 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:11:54am

A realistic view of the impact of voter ID Laws: What could tighter voter ID laws mean in November?

As more states put in place strict voter ID rules, an AP review of temporary ballots from Indiana and Georgia, which first adopted the most stringent standards, found that more than 1,200 such votes were tossed during the 2008 general election.

During sparsely attended primaries this year in Georgia, Indiana and Tennessee, the states implementing the toughest laws, hundreds more ballots were blocked.

The numbers suggest that the legitimate votes rejected by the laws are far more numerous than are the cases of fraud that advocates of the rules say they are trying to prevent. Thousands more votes could be in jeopardy for this November, when more states with larger populations are looking to have similar rules in place.

166 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:13:55am

re: #165 Killgore Trout

A realistic view of the impact of voter ID Laws: What could tighter voter ID laws mean in November?

Would I be imagining things, but are these mostly the same states that had Jim Crow Voting laws? and they are still trying to prevent brown people from voting?

167 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:15:59am

re: #93 freetoken

Thanks for telling us about the Wilders story. I just alerted the folks over at the anti Islamophobia blog Loon Watch.

168 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:18:50am

Wow, Politico changed their commenting to the facebook format. Now that's cleaning it up.

Good morning everyone!

169 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:24:44am

re: #166 ggt

Would I be imagining things, but are these mostly the same states that had Jim Crow Voting laws? and they are still trying to prevent brown people from voting?

That's where they started, yes, and that's still these laws primary mission. As it's moved north, it's taken on the additional role of poll tax to keep the poor of any race from voting because that's the bigger fear up here.

170 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:25:39am

re: #166 ggt

Would I be imagining things, but are these mostly the same states that had Jim Crow Voting laws? and they are still trying to prevent brown people from voting?

Sort of, I think with the possible exceptions of Pennsylvania, Indiana, Wisconsin etc. It's probably more of a reflection that these are red states with enough Republican representation to get these laws passed.

171 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:26:40am

re: #169 William Barnett-Lewis

That's where they started, yes, and that's still these laws primary mission. As it's moved north, it's taken on the additional role of poll tax to keep the poor of any race from voting because that's the bigger fear up here.

Because the number of "immigrants" (undocumented) who are trying to vote to sway the election is so significant? really?

Cold War paranoia has morphed into Mexican paranoia.

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:27:08am

re: #170 Killgore Trout

Sort of, I think with the possible exceptions of Pennsylvania, Indiana, Wisconsin etc. It's probably more of a reflection that these are red states with enough Republican representation to get these laws passed.

Indiana is very prejudiced, it may not have been a slave state, but I count it as one.

173 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:30:00am

re: #171 ggt

Because the number of "immigrants" (undocumented) who are trying to vote to sway the election is so significant? really?

Cold War paranoia has morphed into Mexican paranoia.

Fascism requires fear & an enemy. External is OK, internal is better but the best is when you have both (Commies & Jews for the usual suspect).

[Link: www.themodernword.com...] has more on the concepts involved. The TP/GOP fits quite well.

BIAB

174 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:32:05am

Happy Sunday all!

Question for Ipad users-

Can you tether your camera to it to run the camera and preview the shots? My 5 year old Laptop is dying and I'm thinking of going to a new machine to tether to my Canon cameras. I can't go macbook Pro, just cant swing the budget for the laptop and all the Adobe software all over again.

175 The Left  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:32:40am

re: #173 William Barnett-Lewis

Fascism requires fear & an enemy. External is OK, internal is better but the best is when you have both (Commies & Jews for the usual suspect).

[Link: www.themodernword.com...] has more on the concepts involved. The TP/GOP fits quite well.

BIAB

I really love that Eco essay:

7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country.

This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the United States, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertson's The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others.

176 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:34:25am

Texas Seeks New Water Supply

In the second book in the series, Robert Caro talks about Texas and geography in a very long, detailed and totally readable section at the beginning of the book.

Basically, Farmers and Ranchers should not be in Texas.

All the oil money in the world will not make the state wet. They need the rest of us for that.

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:38:24am

re: #173 William Barnett-Lewis

Fascism requires fear & an enemy. External is OK, internal is better but the best is when you have both (Commies & Jews for the usual suspect).

[Link: www.themodernword.com...] has more on the concepts involved. The TP/GOP fits quite well.

BIAB

The video series, the name of which I cannot remember, about Freud's nephew also talked about how the Cold War was used to control and manipulate people. I think some are trying to use the Mexican's and the War on Drugs in the same way.

Xenophobia seems to be a powerful fear tool.

178 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:42:34am

re: #162 ggt

Not the kettle?

If pot meets the oven though, you get brownies!
;)

179 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:44:38am

re: #177 ggt

Let's keep the war on terror in mind too. My best example is how post 9/11 laws that reduced civil protections/liberties were not limited to terror crimes. How the sun never sets on these "temporary" measures. How these laws are used for other purposes than anti terror 85% of the time.

Now you can go to jail for just arguing with a flight attendant about restroom access. The Police can and do question or detain photographers that are imaging law enforcement activity.

Just driving near a border can cause a canine search without probable cause.

180 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:46:20am

re: #179 Daniel Ballard

Glad to see you got home okay!

Safe and good trip, I hope!

181 dragonath  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:46:50am

Yahoo sucks. They're sourcing their top story right now from Glenn Beck's Blaze.

182 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:50:11am

re: #180 sattv4u2

Thanks. We missed the monsoon storm, but had a great time otherwise. We even went to Meteor crater, which has expensive access that is quite disappointing. $16 bucks per person and very limited viewing and access. Nobody can go to the bottom of the crater. Which is the interesting part.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:50:58am

re: #179 Daniel Ballard

Let's keep the war on terror in mind too. My best example is how post 9/11 laws that reduced civil protections/liberties were not limited to terror crimes. How the sun never sets on these "temporary" measures. How these laws are used for other purposes than anti terror 85% of the time.

Now you can go to jail for just arguing with a flight attendant about restroom access. The Police can and do question or detain photographers that are imaging law enforcement activity.

Just driving near a border can cause a canine search without probable cause.

Very true!

184 Cap'n Magic  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:51:16am

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Too Late for Geert: Henk and Ingrid have bigger problems.

185 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:51:50am

re: #182 Daniel Ballard

Nobody can go to the bottom of the crater. Which is the interesting part.

saving the virgins for themselves!

186 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:52:53am

And in the center of the fear mongers attention is women.

187 dragonath  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:53:54am

re: #177 ggt

Edward Bernays (if that's who you're thinking of) was sort of a character. He had absolutely no compunction about using propaganda if it was in his client's interest.

188 The Left  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:54:01am

re: #186 ggt

And in the center of the fear mongers attention is women.

Good page.

189 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:54:31am

re: #188 Millicent Islam

Good page.

thx

190 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:56:45am

I like Gordon Ramsay as much as the next guy (probably more) but American really needs some more variety in cooking shows. This is getting absurd.

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:57:54am

re: #190 Killgore Trout

I like Gordon Ramsay as much as the next guy (probably more) but American really needs some more variety in cooking shows. This is getting absurd.

I thought food and cooking at least one of their own cable channels?

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:59:03am

bbl

193 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:01:21am

re: #191 ggt

I thought food and cooking at least one of their own cable channels?

There's the Food Network but most of the shows are pretty bad. I gave up watching a few years ago, It was just shows about cakes.

194 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:01:25am

Afternoon Lizardim.

195 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:01:34am

re: #190 Killgore Trout

I like Gordon Ramsay as much as the next guy (probably more) but American really needs some more variety in cooking shows. This is getting absurd.

new shows on the horizon

"Sarah and Todd and 100 uses of Whale Blubber"

"Manatees,,,, endangered, or delicious"

"Don't call the exterminator, call the BBQinator"

196 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:04:38am

re: #193 Killgore Trout

It was just shows about cakes.

24/7 ,, and thats why Fat Veggies no longer around here!!!

//

197 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:06:07am

I'm on day 3 of excruciating back ache pain. I thought about checking to see if I have ripe tomatillos yet but decided against it. Putting on shoes would be a chore and picking anything would be next to impossible.

198 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:06:32am

re: #181 Be Zorch, Daddio

Yahoo sucks. They're sourcing their top story right now from Glenn Beck's Blaze.

That would explain their comments section. Yahoo is a cesspool of awful wingnut commentators.

199 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:06:49am

re: #196 sattv4u2

It was just shows about cakes.

24/7 ,, and thats why Fat Veggies no longer around here!!!

//

I miss him. He's checked in a few times but still on hiatus.

200 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:07:27am

re: #165 Killgore Trout

A realistic view of the impact of voter ID Laws: What could tighter voter ID laws mean in November?

I think the whole preventing legitimate voters from voting is the point.

201 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:08:14am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

I miss him. He's checked in a few times but still on hiatus.

We keep in touch

He's doing well

202 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:10:42am

re: #197 Killgore Trout

I'm on day 3 of excruciating back ache pain

Ouch

Sleep awkwardly?
Picked up something too heavy?
Drunk and fall!!?!?

203 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:14:57am

re: #200 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think the whole preventing legitimate voters from voting is the point.

There's also a section that I didn't excerpt about how among the few cases of voter fraud, most of them involved vote buying from legitimate voters which would not have been prevented by ID laws.

204 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:15:58am

Congrats to Roger Federer,,,, 2012 Wimbledon champ

205 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:16:13am

Drudge Promotes Story From Conspiracy Website Claiming Obama Plans To Murder Conservative Journalists

I live in one of the most rural places you could possibly live in Northern Virginia and there could only be one thing that this drone was spying on and that would be me, that would be my property.

Lol.
What an idiot.

206 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:16:32am

re: #204 sattv4u2

that is good.

207 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:17:57am

re: #206 PhillyPretzel

that is good.

yeah.

In a way I would have liked to see Murray win ("hometown" boy and all that) and God knows Roger has won enough, but the reports of his demise look very premature!!!

208 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:18:07am

re: #202 sattv4u2

I'm on day 3 of excruciating back ache pain

Ouch

Sleep awkwardly?
Picked up something too heavy?
Drunk and fall!!?!?

I think I just overdid it in the garden. I didn't notice anything until Fri. morning. I just moved wrong and was floored. I think it's getting better. If this goes another day or two I'm going to have problems with dishes, laundry, litter box, etc. You can only let some chores go for so long.

209 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:21:55am

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I think I just overdid it in the garden. I didn't notice anything until Fri. morning. I just moved wrong and was floored. I think it's getting better. If this goes another day or two I'm going to have problems with dishes, laundry, litter box, etc. You can only let some chores go for so long.

Heat
Advil
Stretch (slowly and easily)
Repeat

210 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:22:50am

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I think I just overdid it in the garden. I didn't notice anything until Fri. morning. I just moved wrong and was floored. I think it's getting better. If this goes another day or two I'm going to have problems with dishes, laundry, litter box, etc. You can only let some chores go for so long.

This sometimes happens to me. You could try lying on a heating pad to relax the muscles.

Just a suggestion.

Also, ibuprofen is a muscle relaxant.

211 abolitionist  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:22:58am

Video: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

Posted on: 12:20 pm, July 8, 2012, by Nick Dutton, updated on: 11:10am, July 8, 2012

Excerpt:

Officials in Afghanistan, where the amateur video was filmed, believe the woman was executed because two Taliban commanders had a dispute over her, according to the governor of the province where the killing took place.

Both apparently had some kind of relationship with the woman, said Parwan province governor Abdul Basir Salangi.

“In order to save face,” they accused her of adultery, Salangi said.

Then they “faked a court to decide about the fate of this woman and in one hour, they executed the woman,” he added.

Both Taliban commanders were subsequently killed by a third Taliban commander, Salangi said.

[Emphasis added]

212 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:23:01am

re: #209 sattv4u2

Heat
Advil
Stretch (slowly and easily)
Repeat

You beat me, but we agree.

213 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:24:09am

re: #212 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You beat me, but we agree.

I did not agree to beat you!

You prolly hit back,, HARDER!!

214 blueraven  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:24:28am

re: #176 ggt

Texas Seeks New Water Supply

In the second book in the series, Robert Caro talks about Texas and geography in a very long, detailed and totally readable section at the beginning of the book.

Basically, Farmers and Ranchers should not be in Texas.

All the oil money in the world will not make the state wet. They need the rest of us for that.

I live on Lake Travis pictured in your first link. Well, not on but very near. I have lived at this location since '85. It is as bad as I have ever seen it. I used to have a nice lake view...now it is too low too see. But that is not my big concern. It is the water supply and the extended drought.

For the first time ever, the Lower Colorado River Authority, LCRA has denied water to the farmers down in south TX Rio Grande valley.
Meanwhile, they are using tons of unrecoverable water for fracking purposes.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

215 diamonda2u  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 10:45:10am

Wow these folks live in a whole other universe...inside their own deluded minds.

216 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:37:25pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I think I just overdid it in the garden. I didn't notice anything until Fri. morning. I just moved wrong and was floored. I think it's getting better. If this goes another day or two I'm going to have problems with dishes, laundry, litter box, etc. You can only let some chores go for so long.

Since it's day 3, the standard RICE (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation) is a bit late. By now, heat is about as good as ice. Still, a couple of non-obvious suggestions.

First, get a support belt. You know, one of the compression belts worn by people who are going to be doing a lot of lifting. One full day of wearing, then 8 hours starting in the afternoon for a couple of days, then only wear it for a couple of hours when you start to feel the pain. Don't wear it when you're going to lie down, but do wear it if you're going to be sitting.

Second, try to do everything you can either standing or lying down. Sitting is hard on the core (abdomen, back, and the muscles supporting the sides).

Third, apply heat to the sides and abdomen as well as the back. The whole core is interconnected, and the pulling from the former will keep stress on the back.

Oh - if this (day 3) is as bad as it was yesterday (day 2), think hard about getting medical assistance. If you get to day 5 and it's not better quit thinking about it and see a doctor. Whatever you've done isn't getting better and you need help.

217 Bulworth  Mon, Jul 9, 2012 6:41:30am

The Tea Party is just concerned about Runaway Government Spending and the economy. //

218 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jul 9, 2012 5:10:22pm

Can anyone explain the Tea Party obsession with the meme that the USA is a republic and not a democracy?


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