Romney Says He’s Not Responsible for Bain After 1999

Sticking to it
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Mitt Romney steps outside the Fox News comfort zone tonight (first time in quite a while) with interviews on all the major news channels, and here’s his first salvo, at ABC News: Mitt Romney Demands President Obama’s Apology, Says He’s Not Responsible for Post-1999 Bain Activity.

Romney insisted that he abandoned the private-equity firm he founded to run the Olympics and that, after 1999, he had “no role whatsoever in the management” of Bain even though SEC documents listed him as president, chairman of the board and sole stockholder.

“I left any responsibility whatsoever, any effort, any involvement whatsoever in the management of Bain Capital after February of 1999,” Romney said.

Romney didn’t answer when he was asked if he thought there was anything wrong with being associated with Bain after 1999, a period that has been the source of Obama’s attack ads on Bain-backed companies that either outsourced jobs or went bankrupt.

Also see
Transcript: Romney Responds to Bain Attacks in ABC Interview.

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710 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:17:29pm

Obama should apologize? Oh this is rich coming from the guy whose campaign willfully and gleefully twisted Obama's words about McCain to make them as if they were Obama talking about himself. Cry me a river, Romney.

2 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:18:42pm

Reposting excerpt from Dave Weigel Slate article:

So who gave people the idea that Romney had completely severed ties with Bain in February 1999? The Romney campaign! On May 14, bristling at the first Obama/Bain attacks, the Romney campaign (via spokeswoman Andrea Saul) sent out a kitchen-sink debunking statement. The argument, made VERY LOUDLY in bolded sentences, was that Romney "left Bain Capital" in 1999. The sentences in question:

The Bankruptcy And Layoffs At GS Industries All Occurred AFTER Governor Romney Had Left Bain Capital in February 1999.
After Agreeing To Head The Salt Lake Olympic Committee In February 1999,

Romney Said He Will Leave Running Day-Today Operations To Bain’s Executive Committee.

Fact Checkers Have Stated That The Facts “Exonerate Romney” From Allegations Relating To Any Bain Deals In The Early 2000s.

You can see how people got the idea that Romney was out, see-ya, exit-state-left when it came to Bain. But here's the weird part. The articles being cited clearly said that Romney had left the company but would provide some advice when it was needed. Here, for example, is the article referred to in the second bullet point.

“Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions. But he will leave running day-to-day operations to Bain's executive committee.” (Greg Gatlin, “Romney Looks To Restore Olympic Pride,” The Boston Herald, 2/12/99)

3 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:19:19pm

Romney is clueless.

And it doesn't speak well for the people around him.

4 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:23:58pm

DAMN IT, PLEBEIANS! GET MY STORY RIGHT!

5 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:24:10pm

From the transcript:

They want to see if they can't divert to some kind of outrageous charge. It's Chicago-style politics at its worst and the president promised something better than this when he ran the last time. And he ought to disavow it and reign in these people who are running out of control.

Romney's not responsible for the use of the wrong "reign", but he is for the use of "Chicago-style politics" which I think is an inappropriate slur.

Near the end:

KARL: Nothing at all? Condoleezza Rice, can you tell us what you think of her? Is she going to be somebody who would have a role in your administration one way or the other?

ROMNEY: Well she's been very helpful to my campaign already with advice on a series of foreign policy matters and I speak with her from time to time or my campaign does. Also secretary Jim Baker. Secretary Henry Kissinger. I've had the chance to speak with a number of people with extensive foreign policy experience. Ambassador John Bolton and I have spoken and met together and so Condoleezza Rice and her view, like these others, are views that I have found very helpful and will continue to avail myself of their expertise.

The fact that he mentions Bolton in the same breath with Baker, Kissinger, and Rice does not speak well of him. More bluntly; it shows how clueless he is.

6 blueraven  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:26:11pm

Wow...such a hard hitting interview.
///

7 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:26:38pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

From the transcript:

Romney's not responsible for the use of the wrong "reign", but he is for the use of "Chicago-style politics" which I think is an inappropriate slur.

Near the end:

The fact that he mentions Bolton in the same breath with Baker, Kissinger, and Rice does not speak well of him. More bluntly; it shows how clueless he is.

Indeed. Bolton is his foreign policy adviser. Also worth noting is Bork is his legal adviser. These are both guys that faced internal party criticism. And yeah "Chicago style politics" is a stupid slur especially coming from someone who loves mudslinging like Mitt. He's a desperate and clueless man.

8 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:27:54pm
Romney didn’t answer when he was asked if he thought there was anything wrong with being associated with Bain after 1999

He might accidentally shoot off his other foot.

9 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:28:00pm

re: #7 HappyWarrior

Indeed. Bolton is his foreign policy adviser. Also worth noting is Bork is his legal adviser. These are both guys that faced internal party criticism. And yeah "Chicago style politics" is a stupid slur especially coming from someone who loves mudslinging like Mitt. He's a desperate and clueless man.

And don't forget the racist Kris Kobach as immigration adviser.

10 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:28:15pm

re: #6 blueraven

Wow...such a hard hitting interview.
///

No reporter can withstand the Mittskrieg

11 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:30:26pm

re: #9 wrenchwench

And don't forget the racist Kris Kobach as immigration adviser.

Yeah that's true too. Bolton and Bork stand out to me though because those are guys that were considered too much of hardliners even within the GOP though I'm sure many feel the same way about Kobach.

12 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:31:28pm

These aren't interviews, its someone nodding while Mitt complains.

13 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:31:43pm
14 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:33:23pm

The hard Right goes after Condi Rice:

Rice for VP a Slap in the Face to Conservatives

Condi's weaknesses are many, according to her detractors, not the least if which she is pro choice:

We want someone that conservatives recognize as one of their own, not some nominal Republican that the news media thinks of as a conservative because they have an “R” for Republican beside their name.

And that describes the pro-choice Condoleeza Rice all too well.

While there is no doubt Condoleeza Rice is well grounded in the ways of Washington and her intelligence and experience in the Bush foreign policy and national security apparatus make her look qualified to be Vice President to the establishment Republicans who surround Governor Romney.

But that’s exactly the problem. Surrounded as he is by establishment Republicans from the Bush era, Governor Romney doesn’t seem to grasp that the Republican defeats of 2006 and 2008, and the Tea Party rebellion of 2010, were in some measure caused by the policies Condoleeza Rice advocated and carried out on behalf of George W. Bush.

Condoleeza Rice is no movement conservative. Given her association with some of the worst neo-con inspired policies of the Bush era, putting Condoleeza Rice at the top of the VP short list is an insult to the conservatives, Tea Partiers and independents that are looking for a break with the old establishment Republican Washington that Rice represents.

15 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:34:49pm

re: #14 researchok

The anti-abortion crowd detests her. They've had a long running campaign against having Condoleeza involved in any more Republican administrations.

16 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:35:06pm

re: #14 researchok

The hard Right goes after Condi Rice:

Rice for VP a Slap in the Face to Conservatives

Condi's weaknesses are many, according to her detractors, not the least if which she is pro choice:

Bryan Fischer: Condoleezza Rice: absolutely not the choice for VP

17 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:35:09pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

The fact that he mentions Bolton in the same breath with Baker, Kissinger, and Rice does not speak well of him. More bluntly; it shows how clueless he is.

Yup

More pandering.

18 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:36:09pm

re: #14 researchok

The hard Right goes after Condi Rice:

Rice for VP a Slap in the Face to Conservatives

Condi's weaknesses are many, according to her detractors, not the least if which she is pro choice:

I always thought I had heard that Rice was pro-life though otherwise a social moderate. I really think it could end up being Pawlenty. I've heard that Pawlenty's wife and Mrs. Romney get along great. Plus Pawlenty is a socially conservative Protestant with a middle class background so he kind of helps Romney with middle class voters in that way.

19 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:37:05pm

re: #15 freetoken

And that is precisely why in the end, they will be marginal and no more.

20 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:38:22pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

Condi may be a shrewd move.

A lot of African America women can identify with her.

21 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:39:33pm

If corporations are people, my friend, Romney is guilty of serial abandonment, at best. More of a Sandusky type, at worst.

22 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:39:42pm

I wonder if any of the remaining "interviewers" of Romney will simply ask him this: Did you receive any money from Bain after your supposed departure in Feb 1999?

Here's the truth - of course he did, lots and lots of it. After all, it was still his company!

23 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:41:29pm

re: #20 researchok

Condi may be a shrewd move.

A lot of African America women can identify with her.

Could be, Problem with Rice is that she really doesn't have a record on domestic issues. Romney could do a lot worse than her though that is for sure.

24 Mattand  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:42:44pm

re: #19 researchok

And that is precisely why in the end, they will be marginal and no more.

I don't see how they're marginal, when Romney's made such a whiplash-inducing U turn on his abortion views.

25 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:43:40pm

It almost seems to me this is Romney's equivalent of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

What I mean is I think that HE is really going into semantics with sticking to his claim that he stopped running Bain in 1999.

Like he might have still been on the board of directors, he might have been aware of the companies interests, he may still have been officially on the payroll but he wasn't ACTUALLY in charge of anything. In his mind, all this may translate to: "I had nothing to do with the company after Feb. 1999."

Basically I think Mitt's story only fits if you accept HIS definitions of certain terms.

26 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:44:59pm

re: #20 researchok

My guess is that you will have to look far and wide to vote any AA women who will vote for Romney because Condi is on the ticket.

27 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:45:10pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

Basically I think Mitt's story only fits if you accept HIS definitions of certain terms.

Well, I guess that depends on the definition of "is"...

28 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:46:02pm

I think he ends up going with a Protestant or Catholic from the south or midwest with a strong socially conservative reputation and someone who is more populist in rhetoric. If you look at where he did poorly in the primaries, it was in rural and less off areas. If he and Huckabee didn't have bad blood in 2008 when Huckabee asked if Mormons believed that thought the Devil and Jesus were brothers or whatever then I would think he would be it. Plus Huckabee even if he's a dick has the ability to come across as likable and affable which is something Romney sorely lacks.

29 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:47:29pm

re: #26 Talking Point Detective

My guess is that you will have to look far and wide to vote any AA women who will vote for Romney because Condi is on the ticket.

That's true. Bush making her his Secretary of State didn't make Bush popular with African Americans. Romney would have to totally change who he is to do that. The snide remarks about the NAACP made in Montana about how they just want free stuff is going to be something that many in that community will remember and him picking Rice won't change that at all.

30 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:47:53pm

re: #22 freetoken

True- but Bain may have had a contractual obligation to pay.

What I'd like to know is he attended/participated in any board meetings (and that might be perfectly acceptable), and if he did, was it strictly as an observer, recusing himself from influencing the board- a former corporate officer er may have undue influence (corporate officers must answer to the board). Did the board adopt any of his contributions? Did those contributions result in dividend payouts, stock disbursements, stock buybacks, etc.

The answer to those questions would be most telling.

31 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:48:30pm
"I had no role whatsoever in the management of Bain Capital after February of 1999," Romney said. "There's a difference between being a shareholder and someone who is running an entity."

Jesus Christ, this long ago passed embarrassing and is now completely and utterly tragic. Romney has such utter contempt for US voters that he thinks people can't suss out the difference between a shareholder and sole shareholder?

He just flat out lied, by omission, again. And CNN's just there to say "yum yum sir, thanks for the bollocks."

Fuck!

32 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:49:07pm

re: #24 Mattand

I don't know.

Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans are pro choice.

The silent majority.

33 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:51:50pm

Time for another Romney "attack" ad...

*catchy intro and clips of Romney looking awkward*

He has never lost a staring contest...ever
He makes advanced calculus seem exciting...
His eyebrows have been stuck in the same place since 1982...

He is: the most UNinteresting man in the world.

"I don't always swing far right, but when I do, I prefer Fox News. Stay Ignorant, my friends."

34 Mattand  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:52:34pm

re: #32 researchok

I don't know.

Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans are pro choice.

The silent majority.

You don't think the fact the GOP is run in large part by anti-abortion fanatics had anything to do with Mitt flip-flopping against pro-choice?

35 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:53:09pm

re: #31 goddamnedfrank

It's so incredibly asinine.

Romney is saying basically this - he's the owner and gets the biggest benefit (piles of money) but isn't responsible.

I guess it's a restatement of what many have discovered is so wrong with our contemporary economy - the guys at the top get all the money but none of the blame.

36 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:53:21pm

re: #34 Mattand

Of course it does, but he's trying to pad his vote count.

37 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:53:23pm

Don't know why he stays strictly on Fox, when it looks like the rest of the media is ready to swallow whatever BS he spews and ask for seconds.

38 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:54:13pm

re: #31 goddamnedfrank

Jesus Christ, this long ago passed embarrassing and is now completely and utterly tragic. Romney has such utter contempt for US voters that he thinks people can't suss out the difference between a shareholder and sole shareholder?

He just flat out lied, by omission, again. And CNN's just there to say "yum yum sir, thanks for the bollocks."

Fuck!

It's just like I said above, he's splitting hairs to try and make it look like he hasn't been caught in a lie. Because that strategy just worked so well for thousands of EX-husbands and EX-boyfriends out there.

39 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:54:29pm

re: #34 Mattand

You don't think the fact the GOP is run in large part by anti-abortion fanatics had anything to do with Mitt flip-flopping against pro-choice?

Yeah, the majority of the country is pro-choice but the majority of the GOP base is not. This was one of the reasons and I acknowledge his lackluster campaign played a big role too but that hurt Rudy Giuliani especially in early states like Iowa and South Carolina, less so New Hampshire.

40 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:54:45pm

re: #30 researchok

True- but Bain may have had a contractual obligation to pay.

What I'd like t know is he attended/participated in any board meetings (and that might be perfectly acceptable), and if he did, was it strictly as an observer, recusing himself from influencing the board- a former corporate officer er may have undue influence (corporate officers must answer to the board). Did the board adopt any of his contributions? Did those contributions result in dividend payouts, stock disbursements, stock buybacks, etc.

The answer to those questions would be most telling.

As Obdicut pointed out this morning LLC's don't have to have board meetings. What's important is that in Feb of 1999 Romney said he "will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions."

That means exactly what it sounds like, that Mitt was providing input on investments and retained ultimate hiring and firing authority.

41 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:55:13pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Don't know why he stays strictly on Fox, when it looks like the rest of the media is ready to swallow whatever BS he spews and ask for seconds.

Which kind of blows the whole

SOROS CONTROLS TEH MEDIA!!

argument out of the water, don't you think?

42 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:55:55pm

Romney: No, The Buck Did Not Stop With Me At Bain

Crawford: Even if you weren’t making daily managerial decisions, though, doesn’t the buck stop with you?

Romney: Actually, when you leave an enterprise and you have other people who are managing the enterprise, who take responsibility for the investment decisions, who decide who’s going to get hired and fired, who decide compensation decisions, they’re the managers, they’re the people running the business.

And yet Mitt, you're the guy whose name is listed under "CEO," you're the guy whose got all the voting stock, you are the head honcho. If not, you need to start naming names.

43 Mattand  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:56:35pm

re: #36 researchok

Of course it does, but he's trying to pad his vote count.

Well, it's kind of remiss to say that the anti-abortion crowd is marginal. They're a force Romney has to reckon with, and in the unlikely case he picks a pro-choice VP, they're going to scream bloody murder.

44 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:57:08pm

re: #38 dragonfire1981

It's just like I said above, he's splitting hairs to try and make it look like he hasn't been caught in a lie.

Yet, once again, the important issue to me isn't the "gotcha!" part - Romney will always wiggle away from the claim of lying by semantics - but rather the bigger issue: He was the sole owner of the entity called "Bain" at that time, and reaped the millions later.

45 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:57:24pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

Romney: No, The Buck Did Not Stop With Me At Bain

And yet Mitt, you're the guy whose name is listed under "CEO," you're the guy whose got all the voting stock, you are the head honcho. If not, you need to start naming names.

Sole shareholder too. He's so full of shit. He thinks we're all gullible idiots who will believe the shit he spews out of his mouth.

46 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:57:50pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

He could have sat on any number of Boards of the Bain companies, not necessarily Bain itself.

As for Bain itself:

An LLC's Articles of Organization ask to designate between one of two types of management structures. An LLC can either be Manager-managed, or Member-managed. If an LLC is Manager-managed, the power and authority of the company's management lies within its Board of Managers, which is similar to the Board of Directors of a Corporation. If an LLC is Member-managed, there is no Board of Managers, and the LLC is directly managed by its Members (the owners).

I don't know what their structure was.

Either type of management (Members or Board of Managers) can delegate power and authority to the company's officers. If the management does delegate authority, it will retain the responsibility to oversee the affairs and activities of the company.

47 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:58:45pm

re: #43 Mattand

Well, it's kind of remiss to say that the anti-abortion crowd is marginal. They're a force Romney has to reckon with, and in the unlikely case he picks a pro-choice VP, they're going to scream bloody murder.

That they will.

Romney is betting they'll hold their noses and vote for him rather than stay home and let Obama win.

48 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:58:46pm

from CBS:

Asked by Crawford whether he believes Mr. Obama owes him an apology for Cutter's remarks, Romney said, "Absolutely - my goodness!

"What kind of president would have a campaign that says something like that about the nominee of another party?" Romney said. "This is reckless and absurd on his part, and it's something that's beneath his dignity. I hope he recognizes that even fellow Democrats have said that."

I laughed.

49 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:58:48pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Don't know why he stays strictly on Fox, when it looks like the rest of the media is ready to swallow whatever BS he spews and ask for seconds.

They all want to make it look like more of a horse race than it is. Otherwise their viewers go away.

50 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:58:59pm

This whole thing reinforces the premise that Romney would suck as PotUS.

51 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 3:59:22pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

Romney: No, The Buck Did Not Stop With Me At Bain

And yet Mitt, you're the guy whose name is listed under "CEO," you're the guy whose got all the voting stock, you are the head honcho. If not, you need to start naming names.

Mitt logic fail #2912

If *I* have other people managing the enterprise than those people are accountable to me, regardless of if I am directly involved in the day to day operations of the company or not. If I OWN the business, then I am connected to it period. Only by selling the business or my stake in the business do I completely remove myself from its operations.

52 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:00:36pm

Running on Bain was working great until opps research revealed that Bain did and does some not so pleasant things. This is the same thing that happened with his record as governor. He realized he could not run as a Massachusetts moderate so he became a political opportunist and now runs away from the only record he has governing. His weakness as a candidate is showing here. He has Obama hatred and a weak economy and that arguably is the only thing keeping him from being landslided. He has a crippling lack of any likability or conviction.

53 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:01:32pm

re: #48 kirkspencer

from CBS:

I laughed.

Again Mitt you're the same guy whose campaign willingly twisted the president's words on the economy and when you were called on it, you laughed and said so what.

54 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:01:48pm

re: #46 researchok

He could have sat on any number of Boards of the Bain companies, not necessarily Bain itself.

Right, I'm just saying that because there's a board, and he was listed as Chairman of it, doesn't mean that they actually held meetings. Which is counterintuitive and weird, but apparently plausible.

55 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:02:08pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Again Mitt you're the same guy whose campaign willingly twisted the president's words on the economy and when you were called on it, you laughed and said so what.

Wasn't the response when called on it something to the effect of "So what if it's fake, it's working"?

56 Mattand  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:02:38pm

re: #47 researchok

That they will.

Romenhy is betting they'll hold their noses and vote for him rather than stay home and let Obama win.

I think you're seriously mis-reading both Romney's lack of spine and the GOP's anti-abortion fanaticism.

Look what happened when he hired Richard Grennell, an openly gay advisor. One Christian nutcase complained, and Mitt threw the guy under the bus in barely a week.

And if there's one thing the current conservative movement hates more than gays, it's abortion.

57 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:02:49pm

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

Right, I'm just saying that because there's a board, and he was listed as Chairman of it, doesn't mean that they actually held meetings. Which is counterintuitive and weird, but apparently plausible.

That would still seem to imply he was involved with the company on some level, which goes against his REPEATED assertion that he left completely in Feb. 1999.

58 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:04:09pm

re: #56 Mattand

I think you're seriously mis-reading both Romney's lack of spine and the GOP's anti-abortion fanaticism.

Look what happened when he hired Richard Grennell, an openly gay advisor? One Christian nutcase complained, and Mitt threw the guy under the bus in barely a week.

And if there's one thing the current conservative movement hates more than gays, it's abortion.

I wonder if the bus was honking at the time...

Sorry that was REALLY bad...

59 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:04:17pm

re: #55 Targetpractice

Wasn't the response when called on it something to the effect of "So what if it's fake, it's working"?

That's right. That was the response. Thanks for refreshing my memory. He really is showing he thinks that he should be able to do whatever he wants but no one is allowed to criticize poor Mitt. Really the guy's a spoiled brat when it comes to politics. If I were a Republican, I'd be embarrassed that this guy was about to be my party's nominee.

60 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:04:37pm

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

Right.

What I want to know is if he sat on Bain related board, did his influence result in a) financial gain on his part or b) financial mismanagement (or the appearance of that) in any way.

To me, that is what will tell the story. If he exerted undue influence after 1999 that resulted in personal financial gain, he's done for.

61 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:05:46pm

re: #56 Mattand

I understand but that is all optics, as they say.

The majority of Americans- conservatives included- support choice.

They are just quiet about it.

62 Mattand  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:05:55pm

re: #58 dragonfire1981

I wonder if the bus was honking at the time...

Sorry that was REALLY bad...

I tried to work that into the post at the time, but couldn't think of anything clever.

63 God of Binders with Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:06:40pm

If Romney were a poker player, I would crush him. His tell is when he smacks his lips before he speaks, and every time I have seen him do it he ended up being full of shit.

64 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:07:10pm

re: #61 researchok

I understand but that is all optics, as they say.

The majority of Americans- conservatives included- support choice.

They are just quiet about it.

The majority of conservatives support choice? Do you have any data backing that up out of curiosity? I've never seen anything like that since most polls I read have Republican voters who I know are not all conservatives consistently being against legalized abortion. Plus the rise of GOP candidates who oppose all forms of abortion I think illustrates that.

65 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:07:49pm

re: #60 researchok

Right.

What I want to know is if sat on Bain related board, did his influence result in a) financial gain on his part or b) financial mismanagement (or the appearance of that) in any way.

To me, that is what will tell the story. If he exerted undue influence after 1999 that resulted in personal financial gain, he's done for.

It seems he was careful to avoid conflict of interest stuff. I seem to recall he got out of some sports equipment company when he took the Olympics gig.

66 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:08:12pm

This is the best Romney can muster?

67 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:08:27pm

re: #57 dragonfire1981

That would still seem to imply he was involved with the company on some level, which goes against his REPEATED assertion that he left completely in Feb. 1999.

Yep, absolutely. He owned it, lock stock and barrel. He told the Boston Herald's Greg Gatlin that he would be "providing input on investment and key personnel decisions."

That would be called involvement everywhere except for the Bizarro planet inhabited by the GOP and corporate media seeking a horserace to drive ratings.

68 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:10:15pm

re: #66 Varek Raith

This is the best Romney can muster?

A bottomless barrel of cash and this is the product the Republicans are offering.

69 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:10:16pm

Yay American Health care system!

Shortages force ambulances/paramedics to use expired drugs

70 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:11:43pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

It seems he was careful to avoid conflict of interest stuff. I seem to recall he got out of some sports equipment company when he took the Olympics gig.

Which means absolutely nothing because at the time there was no conflict of interest with LifeLike, Bain, or any of the other companies he was involved with.

The conflict of interest came later when he developed political ambitions and decided he needed to retcon his history to try and expunge his involvement in the Stericycle deal and offshoring operations.

71 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:12:45pm

re: #2 goddamnedfrank

Here's for factcheck dealt with that same article...
[Link: factcheck.org...]

For example, the Obama letter quotes from a Boston Herald story (“Romney looks to restore Olympic Pride”) that cites a partial quote from Romney saying that he intended to stay on at Bain as a part-timer. Here’s the quote in a fuller context.

Boston Herald, Feb. 12, 1999: Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions. But he will leave running day-to-day operations to Bain’s executive committee.

First, the Obama campaign simply ignores Romney’s stated intent to “leave running day-to-day operations” to others. And in any case, Romney’s statement that he would remain a “part-timer” is merely a statement of intent, issued just as he was leaving for the Olympics job and before he knew how much time it would consume. It is not evidence of what actually happened.

And as to what happened later, the evidence is clear. According to an Associated Press story that ran just two months later, Romney quickly discovered that he was working 16-hour days on the Olympics, leaving no time for Bain

That could also explain the "part time leave of absence" language from the previous thread. He intended to do some part time stuff for Bain but his Olympics job took up too much time, there's not much evidence he did much aside from signing some papers and giving a quote for a press release.

72 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:12:46pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

From NYT

For two generations of American women, Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision, defined abortion as a private individual decision. Broadly speaking, polls show the American public lives with this framework and is not looking for a fight to tear it down. But a recent Pew Research Center poll shows that the question is a close call, with 54% of the public supporting legal abortion in most or all cases and 42% of the public opposed to legal abortion in most or all cases. The numbers show that the argument over abortion remains divisive, but also that there is an uneasy equilibrium.

Even Jon Huntsman, supposedly the Republican who was most appealing to Democrats, signed a law when he was governor of Utah to outlaw most abortions if Roe v. Wade were overturned. Running for president, he liked to say that two of his daughters were adopted and that he was grateful to their mothers for bearing them. Lest he seem soft next to the rest, Huntsman reminded voters of the “trigger” law: “I signed the bill that would trigger the ban on abortion in Utah if Roe v. Wade were overturned.”

Mitt Romney, the winner in Florida and now the clear front-runner, was pro-choice when he ran against the late Senator Edward M. Kennedy in 1994, although Romney was personally against abortion. During a debate with Romney, Kennedy remarked, “I am pro-choice. My opponent is multiple-choice.” During the same debate, Romney said, “I believe that abortion should be safe and legal. I have since the time that my mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a U.S Senate candidate.”

Romney also spoke with sorrow about a death in the family from an illegal abortion. By 2002, however, when he ran for governor of Massachusetts, he presented himself as a “pro-life” politician who would not change the pro-choice laws of the liberal state he would govern. In the last decade, Romney has become more outspoken in his opposition to abortion, though as a “pro-life president” he says he’d make exceptions for rape, incest and when the life of the mother is at stake.

There are other sources but I'd have to dig them up.

There is also a significant number of Dem pro lifers as well.

73 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:13:05pm

re: #68 It's a cookbook!

A bottomless barrel of cash and this is the product the Republicans are offering.

I guess the Republicans were right after all: throwing money at a problem does not solve it.

74 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:14:14pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

There were a whole stable of Bain companies.

I'm sure they are digging, even as we speak.

75 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:14:54pm

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

Right, I'm just saying that because there's a board, and he was listed as Chairman of it, doesn't mean that they actually held meetings. Which is counterintuitive and weird, but apparently plausible.

The management firm changed to an LLC after Romney left. I don't see any LLCs in the document Charles embedded in the previous thread (in the first 10 pages or so.)

76 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:16:09pm

re: #74 researchok

There were a whole stable of Bain companies.

I'm sure they are digging, even as we speak.

Maybe they can fertilize Michelle's garden when they're done digging stuff up.

77 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:16:15pm

re: #72 researchok

From NYT

There are other sources but I'd have to dig them up.

There is also a significant number of Dem pro lifers as well.

I'm not seeing anything about most conservatives favoring legalized abortion. In fact, that excerpt shows Huntsman saying he signed a law that would ban abortion in Utah if Roe were overturned and Mitt Romney's usual flopping on the issue. There are a large number of Dem pro-lifers, that is certainly true but I see nothing in that article that suggests a majority of conservatives are pro-choice. Now what I have read about are politicians like Romney who start out as pro choice but suddenly become pro life when they have larger ambitions such as president.

78 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:16:58pm

re: #75 wrenchwench

Hmmm...that might be interesting.

If the change came after he left there would have been a BOD.

79 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:17:09pm

re: #74 researchok

There were a whole stable of Bain companies.

I'm sure they are digging, even as we speak.

I'm sure there's a lot of digging going and I'm sure people are going to continue finding "bombshell revelations" but most of this stuff is really old and was hashed over when he ran for governor. I don't think this is going to go anywhere.

80 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:17:42pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

... there's not much evidence he did much aside from signing some papers and giving a quote for a press release.

Oh... and not to mention, collecting lots and lots of money from the Bain investments.

IOW, the analogy of the absentee land baron of days gone by, where the sharecroppers did all the work and the owner took profits.

81 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:18:09pm

Re the previous thread: Isn't "Part-time CEO" a bit of an oxymoron?

82 blueraven  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:18:48pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Here's for factcheck dealt with that same article...

First, the Obama campaign simply ignores Romney’s stated intent to “leave running day-to-day operations” to others. And in any case, Romney’s statement that he would remain a “part-timer” is merely a statement of intent, issued just as he was leaving for the Olympics job and before he knew how much time it would consume. It is not evidence of what actually happened.

And as to what happened later, the evidence is clear. According to an Associated Press story that ran just two months later, Romney quickly discovered that he was working 16-hour days on the Olympics, leaving no time for Bain

That could also explain the "part time leave of absence" language from the previous thread. He intended to do some part time stuff for Bain but his Olympics job took up too much time, there's not much evidence he did much aside from signing some papers and giving a quote for a press release.

I dont think anyone is claiming that he was running Bain's day to day operation, but instead are disputing the claim by Romney that he had no involvement at all.

83 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:19:14pm

"I did not have sexual financial relations with that firm."

84 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:19:34pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

It's true- the numbers are fuzzy, but when you factor in pro choice Republicans, pro life Dems, it appears evident the majority of Americans do support choice.

Same with contraception.

I'd have to dig up clearer number- they are out there in the web abyss.

Maybe the Republicans for Choice have clearer stats.

85 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:20:31pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Congratulations on your entry to the world of politics.

///

86 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:20:47pm

re: #83 SpaceJesus

LOLOL

87 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:20:56pm

re: #84 researchok

It's true- the numbers are fuzzy, but when you factor in pro choice Republicans, pro life Dems, it appears evident the majority of Americans do support choice.

Same with contraception.

I'd have to dig up clearer number- they are out there in the web abyss.

Maybe the Republicans for Choice have clearer stats.

I wasn't disputing that the majority of Americans support choice. I was disputing that the vast majority of conservatives support choice. Think about the prominent pro choice Republicans, they are people like Collins, Snowe, Giuliani, etc. All of whom have a reputation of being moderates more so than conservatives. When Romney claimed to be pro choice, he was running as a moderate to liberal Republican.

88 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:21:29pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

I'm not seeing anything about most conservatives favoring legalized abortion. In fact, that excerpt shows Huntsman saying he signed a law that would ban abortion in Utah if Roe were overturned and Mitt Romney's usual flopping on the issue. There are a large number of Dem pro-lifers, that is certainly true but I see nothing in that article that suggests a majority of conservatives are pro-choice. Now what I have read about are politicians like Romney who start out as pro choice but suddenly become pro life when they have larger ambitions such as president.

Hello all, glad to have some blog time after being away for a couple days. I'd just love to see real results for conservatives vs poll and survey results. I mean, how many conservatives are having abortion? I'd hazard a guess the real life result is a whole lot closer than the poll answers.

89 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:21:39pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

there's not much evidence he did much aside from signing some papers and giving a quote for a press release.

Except for retaining absolute hiring and firing authority, total ownership, three controlling officer titles, a six figure salary and telling the Herald he was going to give investment advice.

Too busy? Jesus, how credulous are you to believe that his team didn't send him so much as an email requesting his approval of the multi-million dollar deals they wanted him to sign off on. Neverminding the fact that he actually signed off on them under oath.

I don't get where this childlike faith in the word of a politician who clearly needs to cover his ass comes from. Especially when there's a growing pile of signed and published documentary evidence contradicting pretty much every bullshit half truth he's trying to sell.

90 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:22:02pm

re: #83 SpaceJesus

"I did not have sexual financial relations with that firm."

What is is was?

91 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:22:05pm

I'm finding it hard to see any high moral ground in claiming one isn't responsible for the decisions made while, with full intention, still reaping the benefits of said decisions.

This is the complaint about contemporary "capitalism": reaping all the rewards without having to burden the responsibilities.

92 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:23:11pm

re: #88 Daniel Ballard

Hello all, glad to have some blog time after being away for a couple days. I'd just love to see real results for conservatives vs poll and survey results. I mean, how many conservatives are having abortion? I'd hazard a guess the real life result is a whole lot closer than the poll answers.

I don't dispute that real answers are different than what one says to a pollster but I really don't think it can be denied that the majority of conservatives are pro-life. That's my only point of disagreement. I think if more conservatives were pro-choice, you'd see pro choice candidates do better in the Republican party when running for higher office.

93 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:24:17pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

I'm sure there's a lot of digging going and I'm sure people are going to continue finding "bombshell revelations" but most of this stuff is really old and was hashed over when he ran for governor. I don't think this is going to go anywhere.

If it hadn't already gone somewhere, we wouldn't see Romney making Friday afternoon visits to four non-Fox news outlets today.

94 makeitstop  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:24:35pm

Man, those non-partisan fact checkers really seem to be working their asses off to cover for Mittens. Not sayin', just sayin'.

95 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:27:12pm

re: #82 blueraven

I dont think anyone is claiming that he was running Bain's day to day operation, but instead are disputing the claim by Romney that he had no involvement at all.

I think he intended to have more involvement but it didn't pan out.

96 blueraven  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:27:37pm

Where are the Tax returns for 1999 - 2002?

That would settle this once and for all.

97 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:28:51pm

re: #89 goddamnedfrank

Except for retaining absolute hiring and firing authority, total ownership, three controlling officer titles, a six figure salary and telling the Herald he was going to give investment advice.

I mentioned this at the end of the last thread but the Bain Capital entity he was sole shareholder of was just a management construct for dealing with payrolls and other such purposes. Each of the funds that actually did the investing was a separate LLC or LP. Without knowing the actually structure of the entire thing saying he had absolute hiring and firing authority etc. is a stretch. Having spent a lot of time doing IT support for VC and Private Equity firms the funds are generally managed by one of the partners and have an awful lot of autonomy.

98 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:29:07pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

That could also explain the "part time leave of absence" language from the previous thread. He intended to do some part time stuff for Bain but his Olympics job took up too much time, there's not much evidence he did much aside from signing some papers and giving a quote for a press release.

Not saying there's any there there, but when it comes to "signing some papers," the type of papers the CEO usually signs aren't office supply requisitions or vacation approvals.

99 blueraven  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:29:15pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I think he intended to have more involvement but it didn't pan out.

Perhaps...that still doesn't mean he had no involvement or no responsibility.

100 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:29:19pm
2002: “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

2012: “I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

♪ ♫ one of these things is not like the other... ♪ ♫

101 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:29:30pm

Zzzzz.

102 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:30:10pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

I'll look for the stats- though to clarify, I would change my remarks to say the majority of GOP women are pro choice- not the vast majority.

It seems to me (observation and anecdotal) most people are of the opinion abortion ought to be safe, legal and rare.

Interestingly, Hillary Clinton took that position and was excoriated.

It also bear noting There is a huge chasm between the support of abortion rights and the endorsement of abortion.

It is messy, at best.

103 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:30:38pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Obama should apologize? Oh this is rich coming from the guy whose campaign willfully and gleefully twisted Obama's words about McCain to make them as if they were Obama talking about himself. Cry me a river, Romney.

Romney should be the one apologizing.

104 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:31:13pm

Inconsistencies just keep popping up.

– 2002: “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

– 2012: “I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

105 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:31:32pm

re: #101 Gus

It's Friday.

We're running out o9f steam.

106 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:36:24pm

re: #101 Gus

Zzzz.

That's what Kim said to the cop:

KIM KARDASHIAN
PULLED OVER
in $300K Rolls Royce

107 palomino  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:36:32pm

Romney's being swift boated. Except in this case there's actual tangible evidence beyond the 35 year old recollections of some people who served with John Kerry.

108 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:36:43pm

re: #105 researchok

It's Friday.

We're running out o9f steam.

Sorry, logged off there. Don't know what to add here since we're basically all folding the same shirt over and over again. Factcheck this. Factcheck that.

109 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:38:05pm

re: #106 freetoken

That's what Kim said to the cop:

KIM KARDASHIAN
PULLED OVER
in $300K Rolls Royce

Is that true? I mean have you checked over at FackCheck at the Washington Post? Could just just be hearsay. //

110 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:38:22pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I think he intended to have more involvement but it didn't pan out.

Again, except for the salary, total ownership, corporate titles, defacto hiring and firing authority, and signature on key SEC documents, one of which in 2000 said “W. Mitt Romney is principally engaged in the business of serving as sole stockholder of BCI VI, Inc. (Bain Capital Investors VI)”

Scribd Document
111 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:39:05pm

This game has settings in Revolutionary War Amercia. Looks interesting.

Youtube Video
112 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:40:04pm

I just can't wait until we get into the meat of the campaign, when the Obama team starts releasing ads solely consisting of Romney's former primary adversaries (in 2008 and 2012), as well as other Republican leaders, absolutely trashing Romney.

Just looking through comments on Yahoo and CNN, I can already see some of them:

"I have never seen a guy change his position so many times, so fast, on a dime." - Giuliani

"I took very seriously the Etch A Sketch comments of his director of communications.... You can't run a campaign with no principles and win the United States. You are not going to beat Barack Obama by being clever." - Gingrich

And I believe there were more than a few from Santorum and Gingrich along the lines of "If it's a choice between Romney and Obama, you might as well vote for Obama."

I've got my popcorn ready.

113 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:40:34pm

Romney's a weasel. After all that bluster from his college days. Turn out? He's just a wuss. He always seemed like a wuss to me. He would have lasted 15 minutes in Vietnam as a 2nd louie.

114 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:41:00pm

Mitt Romney's argument to vote for him to be President:

1) I'm successful, proven by being really rich.
2) Thus, I know what I am doing, and/or God blesses me.
3) You want to be rich too, or at least have God's approval.
4) If you vote for me y'all will be really really rich too.

115 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:41:38pm

Just don't look under the magician's cape.

116 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:42:01pm

re: #113 Gus

"I Give The Answers I Want"

[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

117 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:43:18pm

re: #116 SpaceJesus

"I Give The Answers I Want"

[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

Daddy's boy.

118 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:43:31pm

My signature under oath means nothing and at the company I owned outright the buck stopped with my underlings but please vote for me anyway because I'm really goddamned rich.

119 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:44:32pm

On a not totally unrelated note:

Mormon church lashes back at magazine over portrayal of prophet and profits

The Mormon church is lashing back at a business magazine that parodied their prophet’s mission and portrayed the church as lucratively rich but miserly with charitable donations.

[...]

120 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:46:17pm

Nobody wants to be turned into hamburger:


Michigan meat processing workers chase fugitive cow

Employees at a Michigan meat processing plant were forced to chase down a cow that tried to escape.

The cow got loose on Friday because the trailer it was in wasn't close enough to the Bay County processing facility's gate when the trailer was opened.

The wily bovine took off, cutting through a few neighbors' lawns before crossing a highway.

Neighbor Steve Brock tells The Bay City Times the cow was on the lam for about 10 minutes before Scott's Meat Processing employees were able to corral it and put it down.
Brock says the employees "had to put it down before it got (back) on the road."

The 690-pound cow was sent for processing.

[...]

121 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:47:37pm

I don't know if anybody has posted this in other threads. Huffington Post has Bain documents signed by Mitt Romney after he "left".

122 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:51:10pm

re: #120 freetoken

Nobody wants to be turned into hamburger:

Michigan meat processing workers chase fugitive cow

Why do you hate meat America?

//

123 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:53:40pm

Can't stand the smell of burning meat. That seems to be what a lot of people do these days. They don't cook the beef they burn it. Damn stuff gets inside the house or apartment. Make my throat feel nasty. Stinks to high heaven too. I haven't cooked a steak or burger in years now. Sort of happened by accident. But after not being around the stuff it really does stink sometimes. Basically it's the smell of burning animal tissue.

124 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:53:52pm

[Faints]

125 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:54:43pm

re: #124 Gus

::: passing Gus some smelling salts :::

126 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:55:30pm

re: #125 PhillyPretzel

::: passing Gus some smelling salts :::

No.
*Hits Gus with 2x4.*

127 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:55:46pm

re: #125 PhillyPretzel

::: passing Gus some smelling salts :::

Are those baths salts or smelling salts?

128 researchok  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:55:48pm

re: #125 PhillyPretzel

Beef smelling salts
/

129 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:56:29pm

re: #127 Gus

Are those baths salts or smelling salts?

Depends, do you suddenly feel the urge to eat somebody's face?

/

130 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:56:30pm

re: #127 Gus

They are the real deal. Smelling Salts for when you feel faint.

131 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:56:37pm

re: #126 Varek Raith

No.
*Hits Gus with 2x4.*

Meat kills! Don't you care about the children?

//

132 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:57:08pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

Depends, do you suddenly feel the urge to eat somebody's face?

/

The other white meat?

//

133 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:57:23pm

re: #97 danarchy

I mentioned this at the end of the last thread but the Bain Capital entity he was sole shareholder of was just a management construct for dealing with payrolls and other such purposes. Each of the funds that actually did the investing was a separate LLC or LP. Without knowing the actually structure of the entire thing saying he had absolute hiring and firing authority etc. is a stretch. Having spent a lot of time doing IT support for VC and Private Equity firms the funds are generally managed by one of the partners and have an awful lot of autonomy.

Incorrect. There were no LLCs before 1999, and maybe not until 2003. Look at the document linked in goddamnedfrank's #110 above.

134 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:57:28pm

re: #131 Gus

Meat kills! Don't you care about the children?

//

Considering I don't like kids to begin with...
:P

135 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:58:41pm

re: #121 Big Joe

I don't know if anybody has posted this in other threads. Huffington Post has Bain documents signed by Mitt Romney after he "left".

Can we stick a fork in this one now?
It's done.
Romney lied about Bain.
End of story.

136 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:58:50pm

re: #110 goddamnedfrank

Again, except for the salary, total ownership, corporate titles, defacto hiring and firing authority, and signature on key SEC documents, one of which in 2000 said “W. Mitt Romney is principally engaged in the business of serving as sole stockholder of BCI VI, Inc. (Bain Capital Investors VI)”

[Embedded content]

Embed fail! It opened a new tab. It's a nice big version, though, so thanks!

137 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 4:59:55pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Can we stick a fork in this one now?
It's done.
Romney lied about Bain.
End of story.

SEC documents are a partisan source. I don't believe it.

//

138 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:00:17pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Can we stick a fork in this one now?
It's done.
Romney lied about Bain.
End of story.

Yep. And like Romney said. Bain did a lot of bad things after he left. He's not responsible. Romney is 100 percent correct. Bain is bad.

//

139 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:00:59pm

The buck stoSQUIRREL!

140 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:05:27pm

re: #119 freetoken

Mormon church lashes back at magazine over portrayal of prophet and profits

The Mormon church is lashing back at a business magazine that parodied their prophet’s mission and portrayed the church as lucratively rich but miserly with charitable donations.

Image: 555960_447342611965857_534055344_n.jpg

141 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:06:03pm

#RomneyPrisonNicknames

142 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:06:13pm

Outrage!

143 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:06:25pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Can we stick a fork in this one now?
It's done.
Romney lied about Bain.
End of story.

We already knew Mitt's name was on the SEC forms for legal reasons. Nobody is disputing that.

144 makeitstop  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:06:27pm

re: #137 JamesWI

SEC documents are a partisan source. I don't believe it.

//

Definitely have to wait for the nonpartisan factcheckers to weigh in.
//

145 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:06:32pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

Embed fail! It opened a new tab. It's a nice big version, though, so thanks!

You need to reload the page - been messing with some Javascript again.

146 diamonda2u  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:07:00pm

re: #20 researchok

Yeah, but we can't identify with her even considering working UNDER a clueless inanimate object like RMoney. That would totally ruin her cred...totally

147 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:10:16pm

Here is that rainbow trout that I said I was going to make.

I sliced up an onion and a lemon, sprinkled the fish with garlic, tarragon and freshly ground pepper, drizzled with some extra virgin olive oil and baked at 400 for 15 minutes.

OH NOM NOM.

148 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:10:34pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

We already knew Mitt's name was on the SEC forms for legal reasons. Nobody is disputing that.

Yes. We know that he was on the SEC forms for legal reasons because he was the CEO, chairman, president, and because he was the sole owner.

So why is there any question of his responsibility for what the firm did while he was CEO, president, chairman, and sole owner? I'm really not understanding what argument you're attempting to make at this point.

149 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:12:16pm

re: #147 Learned Mother of Zion

That looks delicious.

150 diamonda2u  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:12:18pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Yeah, because we all put our names on forms to be held responsible for stuff we aren't doing...NOT!!

151 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:12:18pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

We already knew Mitt's name was on the SEC forms for legal reasons. Nobody is disputing that.

Because he owned the company, entirely.

Was he in a position to block the Stericycle deal? Yes. he was uniquely positioned to block the deal if he in fact wanted to.

Did he? No. In fact he affirmatively signed off on it.

152 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:13:28pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Yes. We know that he was on the SEC forms for legal reasons because he was the CEO, chairman, president, and because he was the sole owner.

So why is there any question of his responsibility for what the firm did while he was CEO, president, chairman, and sole owner? I'm really not understanding what argument you're attempting to make at this point.

Mitt had a medical condition that prevented him from not signing things.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:13:30pm

re: #147 Learned Mother of Zion

Here is that rainbow trout that I said I was going to make.

I sliced up an onion and a lemon, sprinkled the fish with garlic, tarragon and freshly ground pepper, drizzled with some extra virgin olive oil and baked at 400 for 15 minutes.

OH NOM NOM.

Looks fantastic!

154 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:13:47pm

Ron Paul claims to-- and may have-- delegated the writing of his newsletters to a weird whackjob dude. He continued to own the company making them, profit from it, etc.

Everyone but Paulians agrees that this means he is responsible for the content of those newsletters. They appear under his name, he received profit from them, and they were his responsibility.

155 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:13:48pm

re: #152 goddamnedfrank

Mitt had a medical condition that prevented him from not signing things.

156 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:14:10pm

re: #145 Charles Johnson

You need to reload the page - been messing with some Javascript again.

Works now. And I can hit the 'view in full screen' thingy to see the big version.

157 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:14:17pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Yes. We know that he was on the SEC forms for legal reasons because he was the CEO, chairman, president, and because he was the sole owner.

So why is there any question of his responsibility for what the firm did while he was CEO, president, chairman, and sole owner? I'm really not understanding what argument you're attempting to make at this point.

I believe it has something to do with "There just has to be some way that Romney doesn't come out of this looking terrible. I'll just keep flailing around and maybe I'll eventually come up with something."

158 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:14:33pm

re: #155 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Blech. I can't even stand looking at that faker's face anymore.

159 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:15:46pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

Works now. And I can hit the 'view in full screen' thingy to see the big version.

Yeah, the imbedded Scribbed support is really swank. Thanks Charles!

160 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:15:55pm

Mitt Romney Tries To Regain Offense, Offers Few Details On Bain

“I had no association with the management of Bain Capital after February of 1999,” Romney told ABC News. “That is when I left the firm. I am very pleased with the experience I had with the firm but as everyone knows I went on to run the Olympics for three years. I was there full time. After that I came back and ran in Massachusetts for governor.”

CBS News’s Jan Crawford asked Romney that even if he wasn’t involved in day-to-day operations at Bain, as the listed owner of the company, “Doesn’t the buck stop with you?” Romney insisted he should not be politically liable for anything that happened after 1999.

“Actually, when you leave an enterprise and you have other people who are managing the enterprise, who take responsibility for the investment decisions, who decide who’s going to get hired and fired, who decide compensation decisions, they’re the managers, they’re the people running the business,” Romney said.

161 diamonda2u  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:16:07pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

Wow, if his excuse is he signed for legal reasons, he proves he's to stupid to be president. That's like a parolee holding someone elses weed for them, so they don't get in trouble.... gimme a break

162 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:16:55pm

Etch-A-Sketch CEO.

163 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:17:05pm

I don't know if this is totally off topic or not ... but I see Derbyshire's latest little essay is his bragging about his presentation last week to the CCC, and how he defines as one of the "principal elements" of "American Conservatism" to be "demographic integrity and continuity".

And then he goes on to present the idea that the "escape hatch" for "Mainstream Conservatism" to get away from political correctness is - get this - SCIENCE!

Quoting his latest article:

[...]

The sciences, particularly the biological sciences, have never been in much favor with conservative Americans. This allows our enemies an easy win by claiming to be, as Barack Obama at his inauguration claimed the Democrats to be, the “party of science,” even as they turn a blind eye to the exciting new discoveries pouring out of the human sciences.

The gist of those discoveries is that the traditional Conservative image of human nature is closer to the truth than the traditional left-liberal conception.

To quote novelist Tom Wolfe: “We now live in an age in which science is a court from which there is no appeal.”

At some point, both liberals and Conservatives will have to accept the judgment of that court. Acceptance will be easier for Conservatives: we have been right all along about human nature—about the limitations on human reason, about associative preferences, about intractable sex and race differences.

That is why, of all the many individuals and associations contributing to non-Mainstream Conservatism, I most particularly admire and appreciate my friend Jared Taylor here, who constantly strives to root his own ideas and prescriptions in good science.

If Mainstream Conservatives could shed their timidity and embrace our new understandings, they would be able to speak frankly and forcefully on issues of population policy, as we do here in the non-mainstream Right.

[...]

Emphasis added.

Remember, this is a guy who has had pride of place in many "conservative" outlets.

164 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:18:03pm

re: #159 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, the imbedded Scribbed support is really swank. Thanks Charles!

And there's a handy search thingy that turned up 0 results for 'LLC'.

165 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:19:52pm

re: #160 Kragar

Mitt Romney Tries To Regain Offense, Offers Few Details On Bain

He's a tool. He insists he shouldn't be held liable for what they did after 1999 yet he had no problem keeping his name on Bain and profiting from what Bain did. Romney's just mad because people are actually discovering that he's a shady guy who would sell them down the river if it meant he'd get more money.

166 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:20:17pm

re: #163 freetoken

I don't know if this is totally off topic or not ... but I see Derbyshire's latest little essay is his bragging about his presentation last week to the CCC, and how he defines as one of the "principal elements" of "American Conservatism" to be "demographic integrity and continuity".

And then he goes on to present the idea that the "escape hatch" for "Mainstream Conservatism" to get away from political correctness is - get this - SCIENCE!

Quoting his latest article:

Emphasis added.

Remember, this is a guy who has had pride of place in many "conservative" outlets.

Breaking news. Former National Review writer is still a racist nutcase.

167 makeitstop  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:24:47pm

"That entity was one which I had ownership of until the time of the retirement program was put in place."

Which was 2002, no?

168 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:25:42pm

Obama Staffer Dies After Collapse at Chicago HQ

A 29-year-old member of President Obama’s re-election team collapsed at the campaign’s Chicago headquarters and later died, the campaign said Friday afternoon.

Alex Okrent, who began working for Obama during his 2004 U.S. Senate bid in Illinois, was a member of the paid media department, which handles advertising for the 2012 campaign.

[...]

169 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:26:57pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

Incorrect. There were no LLCs before 1999, and maybe not until 2003. Look at the document linked in goddamnedfrank's #110 above.

I'll be honest, I am not an expert, but listed as members of that filing in january of 2000 looks like Bain Capital Fund VI L.P and Bain Capital Partners VI L.P . That tends to indicate they existed before 2000. Maybe Romney is the sole partner of those Limited Partnerships, but I doubt it.

170 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:27:15pm

BBL

171 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:27:46pm

re: #167 makeitstop

"That entity was one which I had ownership of until the time of the retirement program was put in place."

Which was 2002, no?

That's when it was put in place, but it was retroactive to 1999. Us nails ladies and bike mechanics don't understand how that works.

172 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:27:54pm

re: #168 wrenchwench

Obama Staffer Dies After Collapse at Chicago HQ

Damn. too young.

173 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:30:13pm

re: #169 danarchy

I'll be honest, I am not an expert, but listed as members of that filing in january of 2000 looks like Bain Capital Fund VI L.P and Bain Capital Partners VI L.P are listed as members of the filing. That tends to indicate they existed before 2000. Maybe Romney is the sole partner of those Limited Partnerships, but I doubt it.

An L.P. is not an LLC.

174 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:31:18pm

re: #172 HappyWarrior

Damn. too young.

I say that when people in their 70s die. 29 is ridiculously too young.

175 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:31:51pm

Make no mistake about the big picture - a great many of the political gyrations coming out of the GOP and "conservative" groups we see today, from voter ID laws to complaints about food stamps and "free stuff", are about, to use Derbyshire's terms, "demographic integrity".

176 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:32:10pm

re: #174 wrenchwench

I say that when people in their 70s die. 29 is ridiculously too young.

I wonder if the guy had the same heart condition I have. It can go undiagnosed sometimes until after death. You read about it happening with student athletes all the time.

177 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:32:13pm

re: #168 wrenchwench

Obama Staffer Dies After Collapse at Chicago HQ

Wow, sad.

178 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:34:32pm

re: #176 HappyWarrior

I wonder if the guy had the same heart condition I have. It can go undiagnosed sometimes until after death. You read about it happening with student athletes all the time.

Yow. What do you have?

179 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:38:31pm

re: #178 wrenchwench

Yow. What do you have?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

180 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:39:33pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

An L.P. is not an LLC.

Given. And in my original post I said LLCs or LPs. Maybe they were all LPs. That doesn't change the main point that the funds themselves were separate legal entities from Bain Capital itself. How much actual power Mitt had over individual funds is questionable unless he was also the sole partner in those LPs which really wouldn't make sense because an LP more or less implies partners.

181 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:41:19pm

Yeesh. Just turned on MSNBC and Michael Medved said, "No one would have a problem with Condi Rice as VP."

I guess Michael hasn't looked at what's being said about Condoleezza on right wing sites today.

182 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:41:32pm

re: #179 HappyWarrior

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I hope you live a long and healthy life!

183 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:41:42pm
184 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:41:45pm

re: #160 Kragar

Mitt Romney Tries To Regain Offense, Offers Few Details On Bain

“Actually, when you leave an enterprise and you have other people who are managing the enterprise, who take responsibility for the investment decisions, who decide who’s going to get hired and fired, who decide compensation decisions, they’re the managers, they’re the people running the business,”

Who manages the managers?

The entire "I stopped running it in 1999" is silly crap, even if true. An alpha macho brainiac owner/CEO like Mitt there would have an overwhelming impact on his organization that would last half a managerial generation. Bain is Romney.

185 makeitstop  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:41:47pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

That's when it was put in place, but it was retroactive to 1999. Us nails ladies and bike mechanics don't understand how that works.

Yeah.

More rhetorical sleight of hand from Mittens. He's betting that people will hear what he said and assume that the retirement plan was put in place in 1999.

He's looking like a compulsive liar more every day.

186 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:45:09pm

re: #180 danarchy

Given. And in my original post I said LLCs or LPs. Maybe they were all LPs. That doesn't change the main point that the funds themselves were separate legal entities from Bain Capital itself. How much actual power Mitt had over individual funds is questionable unless he was also the sole partner in those LPs which really wouldn't make sense because an LP more or less implies partners.

Again from Frank's 110:

“W. Mitt Romney is principally engaged in the business of serving as sole stockholder of BCI VI, Inc. (Bain Capital Investors VI)”

And that was the year 2000. I don't know what point you're trying to make, and if you try to explain it, I will see it tomorrow.

Later, lizards.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:46:01pm

re: #14 researchok

The hard Right goes after Condi Rice:

Rice for VP a Slap in the Face to Conservatives

Condi's weaknesses are many, according to her detractors, not the least if which she is pro choice:

I'd like some clarification here. Which 'neo-con' policies was Condi involved with that the Tea Partiers didn't like, exactly?

Because if you tell me that each and every asshole in the Tea Party wasn't wetting him or herself with glee when we invaded Iraq, I'm going to tell them they're pathetic little liars.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:47:10pm

re: #20 researchok

Condi may be a shrewd move.

A lot of African America women can identify with her.

That was sarcasm...I think?

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:47:58pm

re: #29 HappyWarrior

That's true. Bush making her his Secretary of State didn't make Bush popular with African Americans. Romney would have to totally change who he is to do that. The snide remarks about the NAACP made in Montana about how they just want free stuff is going to be something that many in that community will remember and him picking Rice won't change that at all.

Also: Rice wouldn't take it if offered, so this is a pretty moot point.

190 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:48:39pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd like some clarification here. Which 'neo-con' policies was Condi involved with that the Tea Partiers didn't like, exactly?

Because if you tell me that each and every asshole in the Tea Party wasn't wetting him or herself with glee when we invaded Iraq, I'm going to tell them they're pathetic little liars.

You set up a little table there in the shade, and I'll line them up and run them past you. Be sure to have some iced lemonade for your throat.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:49:16pm

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

Right, I'm just saying that because there's a board, and he was listed as Chairman of it, doesn't mean that they actually held meetings. Which is counterintuitive and weird, but apparently plausible.

As far as I can tell, corporate boards are more a way of slipping the right sort of people some pocket money and a resume padder than anything like an actual job.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:52:56pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd like some clarification here. Which 'neo-con' policies was Condi involved with that the Tea Partiers didn't like, exactly?

Because if you tell me that each and every asshole in the Tea Party wasn't wetting him or herself with glee when we invaded Iraq, I'm going to tell them they're pathetic little liars.

And yes, I AM a little protective of Condi Rice!

193 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:53:17pm

Image: pacific-rim-comic-con-poster.jpeg

194 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:53:18pm

re: #186 wrenchwench

Again from Frank's 110:

And that was the year 2000. I don't know what point you're trying to make, and if you try to explain it, I will see it tomorrow.

Later, lizards.

My point is that these corporate structures can be very complex, and Bain Capital Investors Inc. is a seperate entity from Bain Capital Fund VI L.P. et al. and whoever the GP is for the specific fund is who is making all the decisions about the investments of that fund. That may or may not have been Mitt, but it would take someone much more knowledgeable than I to unravel it all. I am willing to buy Mitt was the GP for maybe one of the funds, but no way all of them.

195 diamonda2u  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:54:24pm

The fact is, if BAIN got into deep financial problems from 1999-2002...who would be the big whiner in charge held accountable..RMoney that's who..and I'm saying not today...but if this was 1999 thru 20012 and something had happened, he would be one of the ones held accountable irregardless of where he was , he was the one on teh dotted line, who was stupid enough to keep his signature there instead of turning over control officially.

196 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:54:55pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

And yes, I AM a little protective of Condi Rice!

Me too. I do wish she would venture into politics but today's GOP isn't ready for her now.

197 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:56:32pm

re: #195 diamonda2u

The fact is, if BAIN got into deep financial problems from 1999-2002...who would be the big whiner in charge held accountable..RMoney that's who

Actually, again, this depends again on what part of the company got into trouble. That's why the funds are structured as separate LPs so if one goes down it won't take the rest with it.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:57:31pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Me too. I do wish she would venture into politics but today's GOP isn't ready for her now.

I feel like she got put back where they found her, and I think she's happier at Stanford than anywhere else.

I almost lost it when it turned out Ghaddafi had a scrapbook of her.

Sigh. My mother used to say she fell in with bad companions, by which she meant the Bush administration.

199 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 5:59:11pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

I hope you live a long and healthy life!

Thanks. I'll be okay. Just gotta be careful out there.

200 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:00:22pm

I'm on a mission to eliminate all 'onClick' attributes from our HTML code.

I know I should be planting racist comments at Breitbart.com or sending wingnuts to #TwitterGulag, but this is more fun.

201 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:00:53pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Me too. I do wish she would venture into politics but today's GOP isn't ready for her now.

I doubt if they ever will be. The GOP is just in the middle of its long, regressive slide. Unless there is a major split of the party into two new ones, which is unlikely (remember, TR left the GOP and even he didn't succeed), there will be no place for a pro-abortion, federal redistributionist as a figure-head in a "Republican" party.

202 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:01:44pm

Looks like Salon's Joan Walsh is now in on the diabolical #TwitterGulag plot to silence conservatives. Moo haha. Ha. Haha.

203 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:01:53pm

Rice's problem may be that she aside from being moderate is too much an intellectual for today's Republican Party. She's clearly a very intelligent woman.

204 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:04:53pm

re: #194 danarchy

My point is that these corporate structures can be very complex, and Bain Capital Investors Inc. is a seperate entity from Bain Capital Fund VI L.P. et al. and whoever the GP is for the specific fund is who is making all the decisions about the investments of that fund. That may or may not have been Mitt, but it would take someone much more knowledgeable than I to unravel it all. I am willing to buy Mitt was the GP for maybe one of the funds, but no way all of them.

Mitt had ultimate hiring and firing authority over all the GPs and fund managers. It doesn't matter if he exercised it or not, he profited from their actions. He owned the entire firm, that's what sole stockholder means. He took a six figure salary, held three corporate titles, was the signatory for all SEC documents yet wants to claim that he wasn't "involved."

The most damning thing though from the perspective of the Presidential race is that even as sole owner he feels completely insulated from all responsibility:

Crawford: Even if you weren’t making daily managerial decisions, though, doesn’t the buck stop with you?

Romney: Actually, when you leave an enterprise and you have other people who are managing the enterprise, who take responsibility for the investment decisions, who decide who’s going to get hired and fired, who decide compensation decisions, they’re the managers, they’re the people running the business.

I'm sorry but that's not only bad business, for an owner to feel completely immune from all responsibility regarding the company they own outright, but as far as character goes it's completely antithetical to leadership.

205 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:05:40pm

Romney Interview Directly Contradicts His Previous Statements About Bain Tenure

– 2002: “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

– 2012: “I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

206 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:05:52pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior
Today's GOP wants submissive women not intelligent women.

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:06:35pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

Rice's problem may be that she aside from being moderate is too much an intellectual for today's Republican Party. She's clearly a very intelligent woman.

She's smart as hell, and doesn't hide it, or put up a folksy facade to make herself more palatable. That's why her natural role was doing the hard intellectual work for a team that could put up a George W. Bush to be the 'personality' of the administration. It will never lend itself to doing something as useless as being the VP candidate, which is all about image.

208 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:07:25pm

re: #205 Varek Raith

Romney Interview Directly Contradicts His Previous Statements About Bain Tenure

It's becoming more obvious that he's trying to distance himself from what happened between 1999 and 2002 because the stuff Bain did in that time is not painting him in the best light. He created this shit and he's stepped in it. It's going to take a while for him to get the smell off his shoes to use an analogy.

209 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:07:28pm

re: #200 Charles Johnson

I'm on a mission to eliminate all 'onClick' attributes from our HTML code.

I know I should be planting racist comments at Breitbart.com or sending wingnuts to #TwitterGulag, but this is more fun.

Sounds like this programmer has the bug.

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:10:52pm

re: #208 HappyWarrior

It's becoming more obvious that he's trying to distance himself from what happened between 1999 and 2002 because the stuff Bain did in that time is not painting him in the best light. He created this shit and he's stepped in it. It's going to take a while for him to get the smell off his shoes to use an analogy.

And I just texted Obama another 5.00.

211 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:11:12pm

Bain is the Bane of Romney.
Copyright, Varek Raith.

212 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:11:26pm

re: #204 goddamnedfrank

Mitt had ultimate hiring and firing authority over all the GPs and fund managers. It doesn't matter if he exercised it or not, he profited from their actions.

Are you sure about that? The LPs are completely separate legal entities. Being wholly owned by Bain Capital Inc. would kind of defeat the purpose of the L.P.

213 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:11:50pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

Nice play on words. :)

214 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:12:16pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

Bain is the Bane of Romney.
Copyright, Varek Raith.

I laugh every time I hear Bain/Bane. Stupid GOP. Actually I'd love to hear some of Newt's previous Bain comments now.

215 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:12:17pm

re: #206 PhillyPretzel

Today's GOP wants submissive women not intelligent women.

Wasn't there something about their being barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen?

Just think of how that would improve the unemployment picture?

216 elizajane  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:14:38pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

Bain is the Bane of Romney.
Copyright, Varek Raith.

Mitt: "I never had SECs with that private equity firm."

217 compound_Idaho  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:16:52pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

Bain is the Bane of Romney.
Copyright, Varek Raith.

Bain is the Birther of the left
Copyright Compound Idaho.... it doesn't matter and few care.

218 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:16:53pm

Mitt is trying to tap dance around the truth and he has two left feet. //

219 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:17:16pm

re: #212 danarchy

Are you sure about that? The LPs are completely separate legal entities. Being wholly owned by Bain Capital Inc. would kind of defeat the purpose of the L.P.

From page 10 of the Scribbed doc. Follow the structure.

Item 2. Identity and Background.
This Statement is being jointly filed by each of the following persons
pursuant to Rule 13d-1(f) promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "Commission") pursuant to Section 13 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended (the "Exchange Act"):

(i) VMM Merger Corp. ("VMM"), a Delaware corporation, by virtue of its deemed
beneficial ownership of 5,376,400 shares of Common Stock;

(ii) Bain Capital Fund VI, L.P. ("BCF VI"), a Delaware limited partnership, as
the sole stockholder of VMM;

(iii) Bain Capital Partners VI, L.P. ("BCP VI"), a Delaware limited
partnership, as the sole general partner of BCF VI;

(iv) Bain Capital Investors VI, Inc. ("BCI VI Inc."), a Delaware corporation,
as the sole general partner of BCP VI; and

(v) W. Mitt Romney ("Mr. Romney"), a citizen of the United States, as the sole
stockholder of BCI VI Inc.

The address of the principal business and office of VMM, BCF VI, BCP VI and
BCI VI Inc. is c/o Bain Capital Inc., Two Copley Place, Boston, Massachusetts
02116. VMM is a newly formed corporation that will be used to effect the
acquisition of the Company. BCF VI is principally engaged in the business of
investing in securities. BCP VI is principally engaged in the business of
serving as the general partner for BCF VI. BCI VI Inc. is principally engaged
in the business of serving as the general partner of BCP VI. Mr. Romney is principally engaged in the business of serving as the sole stockholder of BCI VI Inc. VMM, BCF VI, BCP VI, BCI VI Inc. and Mr. Romney are collectively referred to herein as the "Reporting Persons."

220 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:17:59pm

I see that over at PJM that Roger L Simon has started down the path of "The Democratic Party is then the true racist party", a road that I predict will only lead to more ugliness at PJM, as even evidenced in the very same article when Simon writes:

And yet that remains the spoken/unspoken predicate of election 2012. Just as America rejoiced in electing Barack Obama in 2008 as the first (part) African American president, we are being asked to reelect him for similar reasons. But it would also be racist, perhaps more so, actually to reelect him for similar reasons. The color of Barack Obama’s skin is and should be irrelevant. And yet, of course, it has not been and continues to be the trump card of the Democratic Party. If Barack Obama were white, he would be one of the least likely candidates for reelection in American history. Instead, despite demonstrated incompetence, he remains in contention, perhaps even the favorite. Under current conditions, however, the reelection of Barack Obama can be seen only as a triumph of racism.

The "part" adjective (boldfaced by me) - does it have to be there?

Anyway, the comments are starting to show the cracks - white victimization, etc.

It'll only be a matter of time till PJM catches up to the rest.

221 danarchy  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:20:05pm

re: #219 goddamnedfrank

Ok, that's fund VI, how about I-V?

222 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:20:12pm

re: #217 compound_Idaho

Bain is the Birther of the left
Copyright Compound Idaho... it doesn't matter and few care.

If that was so I don't think Romney would have done five interviews about it today.

223 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:20:33pm

re: #220 freetoken

I see that over at PJM that Roger L Simon has started down the path of "The Democratic Party is then the true racist party", a road that I predict will only lead to more ugliness at PJM, as even evidenced in the very same article when Simon writes:

The "part" adjective (boldfaced by me) - does it have to be there?

Anyway, the comments are starting to show the cracks - white victimization, etc.

It'll only be a matter of time till PJM catches up to the rest.

Of course, Roger ignores the fact that his party has filibustered this president to this point more than any other president. Or the fact that racism has played a role. It plays a role when the first lady is repeatedly attacked with racial slurs on right wing blogs. It plays a role when Rush Limbaugh calls the first family "uppity." It plays a role when ACA is depicted as Obama as an African witch doctor. But, please tell us more Mr. Simon about how the Democrats are really the mean racists and the Republican party is pure as snow when ti comes to racial issues.

224 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:20:52pm
225 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:22:56pm

re: #220 freetoken

I see that over at PJM that Roger L Simon has started down the path of "The Democratic Party is then the true racist party", a road that I predict will only lead to more ugliness at PJM, as even evidenced in the very same article when Simon writes:

The "part" adjective (boldfaced by me) - does it have to be there?

Anyway, the comments are starting to show the cracks - white victimization, etc.

It'll only be a matter of time till PJM catches up to the rest.

Yes, it has to be there. For some reason, Obama's white maternal family is something we need to bring up, repeatedly, even in contexts where it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He's cheating, you see. Or something.

I find this very interesting, as a liberal who was more or less dragged into voting for Obama the first time around. I was pleased to get the opportunity to vote for a black candidate, in an abstract, This Is Historical way but that was a very mild sweetener, given that he wasn't Hillary Clinton, and I was Just Not Sure about him.

I don't recognize these hypothetical people who voted for him solely because he was !BLACK!. Who are they supposed to be?

226 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:24:13pm

When white victimization is the hot topic of a thread, can racial realism be far behind?

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:27:04pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, it has to be there. For some reason, Obama's white maternal family is something we need to bring up, repeatedly, even in contexts where it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He's cheating, you see. Or something.

I find this very interesting, as a liberal who was more or less dragged into voting for Obama the first time around. I was pleased to get the opportunity to vote for a black candidate, in an abstract, This Is Historical way but that was a very mild sweetener, given that he wasn't Hillary Clinton, and I was Just Not Sure about him.

I don't recognize these hypothetical people who voted for him solely because he was !BLACK!. Who are they supposed to be?

It's also a thing at PJ Media. Phyllis Chesler did the whole PART black routine in a column that actually made me cry a little.

228 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:28:44pm

CSM: Did Mitt Romney run Bain after 1999? Will voters care if he did? (+video)

The Obama team may believe that keeping the focus on Mitt Romney's tenure at
Bain serves to remind voters of his venture capital past. But evidence is scant that voters are swayed by this line of attack.
...
here’s the not-little-secret about the 2012 campaign: So far, the daily stuff doesn’t seem to matter. Bain, bad job reports, the US Supreme Court decision on health care, Mr. Obama’s comment that the private-sector economy is “doing fine” – there’s little evidence any of that has moved the polls one iota, according to Sean Trende, RealClearPolitics senior election analyst.

Since the end of the Republican primary season, virtually all major polls of registered voters have shown Obama slightly ahead of the presumptive GOP nominee. Virtually all surveys of likely voters have the candidates in a dead heat.

“This is a long way of pointing out that the various events in the campaign that journalists have focused on ... have done almost nothing to move this race,” writes Mr. Trende.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:30:18pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also a thing at PJ Media. Phyllis Chesler did the whole PART black routine in a column that actually made me cry a little.

She wrote:

President Obama’s election is due, in part, to the desire among many American liberals and leftists to be seen as “atoning” for the sin of racism and the crimes of slavery. The fact that Obama is bi-racial—his mother was white—matters little since he looks like an African-American. Indeed, the President’s own writing focuses on his African, Muslim roots, especially because his Kenyan father abandoned both him and his mother.

I did a whole little ranty blog post about it.

[Link: balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com...]

230 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:31:34pm

Heh:

231 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:31:47pm

When one has to run articles to attract commenters who contend that (1) the Civil War was not about slavery, (2) that the slaves were better off before the war... (3) where one gets statements such as:

47. John J
I say we should oblige all those who don’t like us and send them somewhere they can be more happy and comfortable.
Like all the hellholes they came from.
I have absolutely no problem with that. What a wonderful country it would become again. Especially for the blacks and hispanics who actually want to be here.
Think about it.

July 13, 2012 - 10:06 am

... how long till the racial realists start having articles posted?

232 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:34:39pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

She wrote:

President Obama’s election is due, in part, to the desire among many American liberals and leftists to be seen as “atoning” for the sin of racism and the crimes of slavery. The fact that Obama is bi-racial—his mother was white—matters little since he looks like an African-American. Indeed, the President’s own writing focuses on his African, Muslim roots, especially because his Kenyan father abandoned both him and his mother.

I did a whole little ranty blog post about it.

[Link: balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com...]

EXCELLENT POST! I visited your site a few years ago, not really since. I definitely should be and will.

233 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:35:02pm

re: #220 freetoken

Nothing surprises me about PJ Media any more.

234 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:35:37pm

Those articles on PJ really affirm why conservatives and the Republican Party aren't seen in the best light by minorities. They come across as dickheads who don't understand. Yeah i admit, I was intrigued by the idea of having a black president but I also thought he would make a good president. I agreed with him more than I did McCain. If that makes me a white liberal or leftist with white guilt than so be that. I'd rather vote for something I believe than be a bitter right wing jerk who cries myself to sleep whining about liberals only voting for Obama because of racial reasons. It's often forgotten that Obama had to work hard to court black voters when he ran in the Democratic primary. Clinton had many prominent supporters in the AA community.

235 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:51:55pm

Elsewhere in America:

Louisiana voucher scheme fails to attract many students

Looks like the masses are not rushing out of the door of public education.

The whole voucher thing looks more and more as a way to get funds to a minority of the population, mostly fundamentalists to support their religious efforts.

236 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:56:39pm

"i tried to raise my company right, but when i turned my back on it for half a second to take care of the olympics, it went bad and started helping those outsourcers. i swear i had nothing to do with it! hey, who can control their kids?

that's why you should vote for me"

237 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:58:44pm

Meanwhile, in MN, corporate leaders are fighting against the anti-gay-marriage amendment coming up for vote:

Thomson Reuters comes out against gay marriage ban

238 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:03:28pm

the desire among many American liberals and leftists

hey! we're allowed to make up secret thoughts and desires for other people that we never even met!

why didn't anybody tell me? i never get to get in on the fun... :-(

239 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:04:37pm

re: #238 engineer cat

the desire among many American liberals and leftists

hey! we're allowed to make up secret thoughts and desires for other people that we never even met!

why didn't anybody tell me? i never get to get in on the fun... :-(

You were passed out on the floor when the decision was made.

240 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:06:38pm

Peeps following my moving saga. I got my keys tonight. Truck etc. not till Sunday. Can't handle it. I'm going there now with a couple of possessions, my bathing suit (pool) and my ipod & bose sound dock.

Happy happy!

241 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:06:51pm

re: #163 freetoken

I don't know if this is totally off topic or not ... but I see Derbyshire's latest little essay is his bragging about his presentation last week to the CCC, and how he defines as one of the "principal elements" of "American Conservatism" to be "demographic integrity and continuity".

And then he goes on to present the idea that the "escape hatch" for "Mainstream Conservatism" to get away from political correctness is - get this - SCIENCE!

Quoting his latest article:

Emphasis added.

Remember, this is a guy who has had pride of place in many "conservative" outlets.

Well, you know, there are race differences. White people are uniformly white, and black, brown, and yellow people aren't.

QED

242 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:07:49pm

re: #240 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Peeps following my moving saga. I got my keys tonight. Truck etc. not till Sunday. Can't handle it. I'm going there now with a couple of possessions, my bathing suit (pool) and my ipod & bose sound dock.

Happy happy!

Have fun, you deserve it.

243 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:08:22pm

re: #141 Gus

#RomneyPrisonNicknames

The fantasies of Mitt being raped aren't funny, but maybe that's just me. I'm more troubled by the desire to imprison political rivals before the election. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.
/

244 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:09:12pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

The fantasies of Mitt being raped aren't funny, but maybe that's just me. I'm more troubled by the desire to imprison political rivals before the election. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.
/

I thought that was stupid too.

245 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:10:33pm

re: #235 freetoken

Elsewhere in America:

Louisiana voucher scheme fails to attract many students

Looks like the masses are not rushing out of the door of public education.

The whole voucher thing looks more and more as a way to get funds to a minority of the population, mostly fundamentalists to support their religious efforts.

Gasp! No!!

246 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:11:31pm

re: #244 b_sharp

I thought that was stupid too.

OK, thanks. I thought it just might be me.

247 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:12:36pm
248 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:13:45pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

OK, thanks. I thought it just might be me.

Don't forget today is Friday.

249 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:13:54pm

Mississippi Abortion Law Can Take Effect, U.S. Judge Rules

A Mississippi law that puts new requirements on physicians who perform abortions may take effect for now, a judge said, denying a request by the state’s only abortion clinic to extend a temporary halt on the measure.

[...]

250 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:14:40pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

The fantasies of Mitt being raped aren't funny, but maybe that's just me. I'm more troubled by the desire to imprison political rivals before the election. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.
/

It's a seriously bad thing to joke about on a tactical level, too. It makes those on the left who tell such jokes look like assholes and it gives Romney supporters ammo for negative attacks on Mitt's detractors.

251 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:15:01pm

re: #248 b_sharp

Don't forget today is Friday.

Friday the 13th...and pretty lucky I must say. Mitt implodes in front of five different interviews, and I get not one, but two job offers.

252 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:16:51pm

re: #249 freetoken

Mississippi Abortion Law Can Take Effect, U.S. Judge Rules

Reads like another example of judges saying "We can't take on the law until it's actually been in effect."

253 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:17:12pm

re: #251 darthstar

Friday the 13th...and pretty lucky I must say. Mitt implodes in front of five different interviews, and I get not one, but two job offers.

Good day, eh?

254 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:18:34pm

re: #235 freetoken

Elsewhere in America:

Louisiana voucher scheme fails to attract many students

Looks like the masses are not rushing out of the door of public education.

The whole voucher thing looks more and more as a way to get funds to a minority of the population, mostly fundamentalists to support their religious efforts.

Way to go Jindal.

255 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:20:16pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

Way to go Jindal.

He heeded the call.

256 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:22:15pm

For those not already aware, the creator of XKCD has a new blog called What if?, and the first entry is a Relativity question:

What would happen if you tried to hit a baseball pitched at 90% the speed of light?

fabulous

257 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:23:03pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

Reads like another example of judges saying "We can't take on the law until it's actually been in effect."

That's often the case, and its ultimately an issue of the role of the various branches of government. The critical point being that judges in America are not allowed to be proactive, they must wait for a law to produce a case they may rule on. Thus the Miss. law's constitutionality cannot be ruled on until it actually restricts the clinic operations.

258 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:23:03pm

re: #253 b_sharp

Good day, eh?

Yeah...don't want to get into the details just yet, but will fill those in next week when I complete the paperwork.

259 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:25:30pm
Everything within roughly a mile of the park is leveled, and a firestorm engulfs the surrounding city. The baseball diamond is now a sizable crater, centered a few hundred feet behind the former location of the backstop.

A careful reading of official Major League Baseball Rule 6.08(b) suggests that in this situation, the batter would be considered "hit by pitch", and would be eligible to advance to first base.

260 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:26:51pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

That's often the case, and its ultimately an issue of the role of the various branches of government. The critical point being that judges in America are not allowed to be proactive, they must wait for a law to produce a case they may rule on. Thus the Miss. law's constitutionality cannot be ruled on until it actually restricts the clinic operations.

Which is what makes sense. And what fills me with dread, knowing it likely means that SCOTUS has set up a situation where, come 2014, there will be one or more cases filed by people protesting the "mandate" assessed against them.

261 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:28:52pm

re: #259 freetoken

Everything within roughly a mile of the park is leveled, and a firestorm engulfs the surrounding city. The baseball diamond is now a sizable crater, centered a few hundred feet behind the former location of the backstop.

A careful reading of official Major League Baseball Rule 6.08(b) suggests that in this situation, the batter would be considered "hit by pitch", and would be eligible to advance to first base.

LOL!

262 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:33:10pm

I've been rereading Thoreau, The same copy I first read in my late teens, This was underlined by my 18 year old self...

To a philosopher all news, as it is called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over their tea.

263 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:36:03pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I've been rereading Thoreau, The same copy I first read in my late teens, This was underlined by my 18 year old self...

Are you calling yourself an old lady?

264 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:36:07pm

re: #259 freetoken

Someone finally made baseball watchable I see.

265 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:36:08pm

Maybe he was right

266 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:39:07pm

Sylvester Stallone's Son Found Dead in Hollywood

267 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:39:12pm

re: #263 prairiefire

Are you calling yourself an old lady?

On the internets, everyone is an old lady.

268 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:39:55pm

re: #263 prairiefire

Are you calling yourself an old lady?

Yes, maybe I've become one. I do remember that quote from when I underlined it. I had finished highschool and still lived at home. In the days before 24 hour TV I used to smoke pot and watch Charlie Rose (who I still have a fondness for) on late night tv doing serious news and interviews. I've always been a news junkie but maybe Thoreau was right.

269 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:40:22pm

re: #267 darthstar

Congrats on the job offers. Did you follow this advice in the interview? ;)

270 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:40:24pm

re: #266 Gus

Sage Moonblood Stallone...Are they related to the Zappas?

271 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:40:59pm

re: #267 darthstar

On the internets, everyone is an old lady.

Eh, what's that ya say? Speak up!

272 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:41:06pm

re: #270 darthstar

Sage Moonblood Stallone...Are they related to the Zappas?

Maybe.

273 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:41:58pm

re: #269 Interesting Times

Congrats on the job offers. Did you follow this advice in the interview? ;)

[Embedded content]

No, I didn't pull a Romney, though at one point I did say that getting functional specs from developers was sometimes as difficult as getting a tax return from Mitt Romney...that got a belly laugh out of my interviewers.

274 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:42:16pm

re: #181 Charles Johnson

Yeesh. Just turned on MSNBC and Michael Medved said, "No one would have a problem with Condi Rice as VP."

I guess Michael hasn't looked at what's being said about Condoleezza on right wing sites today.

Not to mention, that Condi has said she has NO INTEREST in an elected office!

275 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:43:33pm
276 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:44:36pm

re: #181 Charles

Speaking of MSNBC...is it wrong of me to watch the Friday night "Lockup Raw" shows in hopes of hearing Republican opinions on the presidential race?

277 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:45:23pm

Who are you going to trust? 1999 Mitt or 2012 Mitt?

278 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:45:32pm

re: #274 Dancing along the light of day

Not to mention, that Condi has said she has NO INTEREST in an elected office!

I don't think even Drudge took it seriously. It was at best a trial balloon, checking to see how the idea would float amongst the base (namely like that of a lead balloon), while at worst it was a way for Drudge pulling a Marty McFly to the news about Romney and Bain, namely "I got a better question...WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!"

279 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:45:49pm

re: #277 Kragar

Who are you going to trust? 1999 Mitt or 2012 Mitt?

President Obama.

280 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:48:18pm
281 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:52:25pm

re: #277 Kragar

Who are you going to trust? 1999 Mitt or 2012 Mitt?

Both over Obama.

282 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:53:09pm

re: #278 Targetpractice

I'm just surprised that Romney brought the issue back to the forefront again. Asking for an apology is a new one though. Any other candidate ever would show his data and be like "I'm right, he's wrong, and here's why".

283 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:53:48pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Both over Obama.

Yes, but imagine his reelection campaign if he does take office..."I wasn't President from 2013 to 2015."

284 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:54:02pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Both over Obama.

I don't think either are quite over Obama.

285 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 7:58:05pm

re: #282 Be Zorch, Daddio

I'm just surprised that Romney brought the issue back to the forefront again. Asking for an apology is a new one though. Any other candidate ever would show his data and be like "I'm right, he's wrong, and here's why".

Indeed, if Romney is telling the truth, it should be pretty easy to prove. He just has to release his tax records for those years and we can put this issue to rest.

286 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:00:05pm

A little gem from a certain conservative discussion site

1389AD 10 | July 13, 2012 8:15 pm


The media kept telling us over and over how smart she [Rice] was.

I never saw one single scintilla of evidence of that.

Another Affirmative Action officeholder.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:04:02pm

re: #286 SpaceJesus

A little gem from a certain conservative discussion site

Steam is coming out of my ears.

288 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:04:06pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

The fantasies of Mitt being raped aren't funny, but maybe that's just me. I'm more troubled by the desire to imprison political rivals before the election. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.
/

FactCheck:

A. That's a Twitter trend not of my creation.
B. I typically don't participate in trends such as those since I actually find them somewhat distasteful.
C. I have no idea about imprisoning anyone let alone Romney.
D. It's still trending.

So no Killgore. You don't need to wish me luck upon something I have no part in. I've been busy most of the day and haven't spent the whole day thinking about Bain or Romney since 8 AM.

289 SteveMcG  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:04:34pm

I always thought that Mitt Romney and Hilary Clinton are virtually the same. I think they are both victims of their ambition. I bet they practically believe they were owed the Presidency, after all the dues they paid. Clinton, like Romney told all kinds of whoppers in the long primary campaign with Obama. Her vote for the Iraq War hung over her, just like Romneycare hangs over Mitt.

290 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:05:23pm

re: #288 Gus

FactCheck:

A. That's a Twitter trend not of my creation.
B. I typically don't participate in trends such as those since I actually find them somewhat distasteful.
C. I have no idea about imprisoning anyone let alone Romney.
D. It's still trending.

So no Killgore. You don't need to wish me luck upon something I have no part in. I've been bust most of the day and haven't spent the whole day thinking about Bain or Romney since 8 AM.

Bust?

291 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:05:41pm

re: #290 b_sharp

Bust?

Busy.

292 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:07:16pm

re: #291 Gus

Busy.

Gotcha, bra.

293 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:08:55pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

Doesn't she speak like 47 languages, hold multiple degrees and play the piano at almost a professional level?

294 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:09:02pm

re: #292 b_sharp

Gotcha, bra.

Hope its more supportive of its job than Mitt is.

295 SteveMcG  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:09:33pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Both over Obama.

Everything was going great until Obama became dictator.

296 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:09:35pm

re: #293 SpaceJesus

Doesn't she speak like 47 languages, hold multiple degrees and play the piano at almost a professional level?

/ Well yes, but she is black.

297 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:12:56pm

Aw, wingers and their racism.

298 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:13:15pm

re: #295 SteveMcG

Everything was going great until Obama became dictator.

I've seen the vids of all the tanks rolling through US cities, suppressing all the legal TeaParty demonstrations.

299 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:13:34pm

re: #285 Targetpractice

Indeed, if Romney is telling the truth, it should be pretty easy to prove. He just has to release his tax records for those years and we can put this issue to rest.

That wouldn't settle anything, since Mitt Romney is still getting money from Bain Capital even unto this very day as part of his exit deal. Any returns would not necessarily show in what capacity Mitt got the money from Bain.

Moreover, releasing tax returns would just open Mitt up to attacks based off of those returns, with the detractors under no obligation to offer context as to why a thing was structured the way it was. No, releasing any such return is a bad idea.

300 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:13:37pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Both over Obama.

And both of those Romneys value the Koch brothers' interests far, far, far, far, FAR more than yours. Indeed, if they asked Romney to gut the ADA and make it easier for employers to fire disabled workers, he would.

301 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:14:36pm

re: #295 SteveMcG

Everything was going great until Obama became dictator.

Nice out-of-context attack. Have a downding.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:15:40pm

re: #293 SpaceJesus

Doesn't she speak like 47 languages, hold multiple degrees and play the piano at almost a professional level?

Yes. I mean, probably not 47, but she's fluent in Russian, German, French and Spanish that I know of off the top of my head.

303 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:16:30pm
304 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:16:58pm

re: #300 Interesting Times

And both of them value the interests of the Koch brothers far, far, far, far, FAR more than yours. Indeed, if they asked Romney to gut the ADA and make it easier for employers to fire disabled workers, he would.

And your evidence for this claim is?

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:17:08pm

I would like to know what 1389AD's academic, linguistic and artistic credentials are. Oh, wait. No one would let him learn Russian and become the youngest provost in Stanford history. He's white. The poor bastard.

306 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:17:26pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

Nice out-of-context attack. Have a downding.

Speaking of downdings, I thought of you when I saw this pic.

Image: 428436_362614820476233_1279621531_n.jpg

307 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:17:33pm

If Mitt Romney can't handle questions about his tax returns, how will he handle the terrorists?

308 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:17:35pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. I mean, probably not 47, but she's fluent in Russian, German, French and Spanish that I know of off the top of my head.

I'm actually surprised she's a conservative.

309 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:18:31pm

re: #284 Kragar

I don't think either are quite over Obama.

Over Macho Grande?

310 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:19:27pm

re: #307 Interesting Times

If Mitt Romney can't handle questions about his tax returns, how will he handle the terrorists?

He'll say they're gay and send the AFA after them.

311 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:20:06pm

re: #306 darthstar

Flinging creepy insinuations about someone else's sexuality is what the Stalkers do.

312 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:20:35pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

That wouldn't settle anything, since Mitt Romney is still getting money from Bain Capital even unto this very day as part of his exit deal. Any returns would not necessarily show in what capacity Mitt got the money from Bain.

Mitt's tax return is so complicated that he has to file extensions every year due to the fact it takes the better part of 2012 to figure out how much money he made in 2011. I think typical Americans have a difficult time relating to that sort of situation. I'd love to hear Mitt trying to explain his tax return complexities to a room full of teabillies.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:21:06pm

re: #308 b_sharp

I'm actually surprised she's a conservative.

She was a Democrat until the early 80s, IIRC, although her father was always a Republican.

The story is that he became a Republican because when he got back to Alabama from the Army, the local Democrats wouldn't let him register.

There's some racist in Alabama who probably, given that Condi has said she was influenced by her father's politics and party affiliation, cost the Democrats Condi Rice in the long run. I would like to find him and kick his ass, but he's probably dead by now.

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:21:34pm

re: #306 darthstar

Speaking of downdings, I thought of you when I saw this pic.

Image: 428436_362614820476233_1279621531_n.jpg

This was needed?

315 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:22:09pm

As the World Turns

316 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:22:11pm

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

Flinging creepy insinuations about someone else's sexuality is what the Stalkers do.

Oh, no...I wasn't implying that you were gay. Not at all. I just thought the thought bubble was funny.

317 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:23:15pm

re: #316 darthstar

Oh, no...I wasn't implying that you were gay. Not at all. I just thought the thought bubble was funny.

Yeah, sure you were. And am entirely willing to believe you because you always treat me with such respect.

/dripping

318 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:23:59pm

re: #315 Gus

As the World Turns

Soap operas rot your brain, Gus.

319 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:24:45pm

Dark and Darth need to go camping.

320 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:25:13pm

re: #309 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Over Macho Grande?

No, I never got over Macho Grande...

321 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:25:57pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, sure you were. And am entirely willing to believe you because you always treat me with such respect.

/dripping

It's your irrational fear of gays I find humorous. If you're going to be an avid Romney supporter, you're going to have to try and be more like him...he's not afraid of gays...just the people who hate them.

322 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:26:26pm

re: #319 Kronocide

Dark and Darth need to go camping.

We're going to need a bigger tent.

323 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:28:20pm

Conservatives: Improving the quality of life in Merrye Olde England

324 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:29:57pm

re: #307 Interesting Times

“There’s nothing wrong with being associated with Macho Grande, of course, but since February 11, 1999, I have not had any active role."

325 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:30:12pm

re: #321 darthstar

It's your irrational fear of gays I find humorous. If you're going to be an avid Romney supporter, you're going to have to try and be more like him...he's not afraid of gays...just the people who hate them.

I objected to a picture that I reasonably saw as an insinuation that I was gay, and your response is to call me a homophobe? Go Fuck Yourself!

326 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:30:21pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

And your evidence for this claim is?

Common Sense. Koch is a hardcore AGW-denying, Ayn-Rand-worshipping, public-protection-hating glibertarian, who bought Romney outright with this precious Hamptons fundraiser. Do you seriously think gutless wonder romney would ever dare stand up to him?

327 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:31:20pm
Spelman's first row of defensive sandbags is that the cutting the deficit left by the last government is the greatest priority.

Jobs! Make the unemployed bail tepid barf water. Capitalism will save the day.

328 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:32:38pm

re: #320 TedStriker

By the way, TedStriker is my handle most everywhere else on the Internet (including in Battlefield since BF1942 and CoD through Black Ops with a TWD clan tag) and has been for years; if you see that name on a forum or in a MP game somewhere, chances are it's probably me.

329 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:32:48pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

I objected to a picture that I reasonably saw as an insinuation that I was gay, and your response is to call me a homophobe? Go Fuck Yourself!

You've got a bit to learn about insinuation, but I'll take your advice. I so do enjoy fucking myself.

330 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:34:34pm

re: #329 darthstar

I so do enjoy fucking myself.

You should be more like Mitt, he enjoys fucking over others.

331 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:35:47pm

re: #330 ozbloke

You should be more like Mitt, he enjoys fucking over others.

I tried, but I'm lactose intolerant.

332 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:35:50pm

re: #326 Interesting Times

Common Sense. Koch is a hardcore AGW-denying, Ayn-Rand-worshipping, public-protection-hating glibertarian, who bought Romney outright with this precious Hamptons fundraiser. Do you seriously think gutless wonder romney would ever dare stand up to him?

Your link does not even contain Ayn Rand's name, and Libertarianism ≠ Objectivism. Nor have you shown any evidence that Charles and/or David Koch has any problem at all with the ADA.

Make an actual case, please.

333 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:36:07pm

re: #328 TedStriker

Surely you can't be serious..

334 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:36:31pm

re: #333 Mich-again

Surely you can't be serious..

Don't call him Surely.

335 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:42:33pm

I know most here probably won't like the author, but tell me where this snippet goes wrong from "Meet the Bainers, the New Birthers".

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

It is well established that Mitt Romney left Bain to go salvage the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics. It is also well established that his name remained on some SEC documents. This stems from winding down his partnership interest in Bain Capital. It is a quirk in the law. It has been well vetted. Even FactCheck.org and the Washington Post are unpersuaded by Team Obama’s hyperbole.

Really? A felon? Hey! Let’s accuse Barack Obama of being a foreign born Muslim! There’s about the same validity to both. Meet the Bainers — they are the members of Team Obama demanding proof from Mitt Romney that he is a liar or a felon. Next they’ll ask when he stopped beating his wife.

The Bainers will not take any answer that does not show Romney to be a liar or felon in the same way Birthers will take no answer other than one that shows Barack Obama is not an American citizen. In fact, pointing this out on twitter today I was barraged from both sides that Obama has still never shown his real birth certificate and Mitt Romney has still not shown his tax returns.

It sure looks like Romney left in 1999 to run the Olympics as a full time leave of absence. He may have wanted to leave open the possibility he would go back one day, but he never did.

336 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:43:04pm

Yawn.

337 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:43:30pm

Fuck the Koch brothers.

Fuck Bain.

Fuck Romney.

338 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:43:51pm

So all that talk about trout this AM....

Still remember a trout dish at Bouchon in Napa 3 years ago. I usually win the 'who picked the better dinner' contest with my wife, but this time she picked a boned whole trout oven roasted in a small copper pan with fingerlings, capers, onions, and a white wine reduction.

That was a damn good dish. Not a bone in the trout, whole skin, moist, great flavor.

339 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:44:01pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

Come, come now...I didn't read it as darth calling you gay or saying that you are in the closet or something, but as a commentary on how many self-described "conservative" men in the GOP hierarchy seem to be "on the down low", while keeping a red-blooded, "rock-ribbed" hetero (in many case, married with kids) public image (see: Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, ad nauseum).

It seemed to me he was just ribbing you a bit for the "sins" of the aforementioned group, since homosexuality squicks you out (which it shouldn't if you're logical about the matter). In my experience, sexual orientation is born, not bred; one of my brothers is gay and I've worked with and still work with more than a few gay folks every day, two of which are my bosses.

Seriously, who would want to choose to be gay when, while things are better in the world for them as a group nowadays, there are still a bunch of people around the world and in this country that look at them as evil incarnate?

340 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:44:55pm

So Condi has many weaknesses? Really? and what might those be? She's brilliant? Not even democrats could find much wrong with her except for her party affiliation with Bush of course.
As for her republican father, he became republican because during that time in the south the conservatives (white supremacists) were the Democrats and turned him away when he tried to register to vote but the Republicans (old Lincoln Republicans) Let him. he stayed loyal to that party for the same reason my Yankee Grandfather did. They refused to vote for the party of southern confederates, the Democrats.

341 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:45:04pm

re: #335 BryanS

I know most here probably won't like the author, but tell me where this snippet goes wrong from "Meet the Bainers, the New Birthers".

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

It sure looks like Romney left in 1999 to run the Olympics as a full time leave of absence. He may have wanted to leave open the possibility he would go back one day, but he never did.

Fuck Erick Erickson.

342 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:46:31pm

re: #341 Gus

Fuck Erick Erickson.

heh :)

Figured that's about how most would feel about the author, but I can't say I disagree with anything I quoted him writing about in my post.

343 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:46:43pm

re: #337 Gus

Fuck the Koch brothers.

Fuck Bain.

Fuck Romney.

While we're there, how about fuck the 'Bainer = Birther' False Equivalence Fairy bullshit? It's so fucking stupid it's insulting to even try to fly that one within eyesight of my big ass gorilla dome head.

344 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:46:48pm

We bring up Bain in earnest for what? 3 days? Suddenly you wingnuts are comparing us to freaking birthers?

345 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:49:35pm

re: #344 Gus

We bring up Bain in earnest for what? 3 days? Suddenly you wingnuts are comparing us to freaking birthers?

I just don't see what the concern is vis-a-vis Bain. It seems irrational to me. The non-partisan fact checking types in the media don't seem to be buying what is really an argument being driven by the President's reelection campaign.

346 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:49:42pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Your link does not even contain Ayn Rand's name

Fine. Since you insist on hyper-literalist nitpicking and refuse to see the big picture, I'll make it easy and link directly to one of the comments on that page, which covers how the Kochs bribe universities to indoctrinate students with Objectivist propaganda:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Guilford College accepted a 10-year, $500,000 grant from BB&T, along with the following strings: an upper-level interdisciplinary course requiring the assignment of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” in its entirety, and the commitment of the college to annually (until the year 2019) give a copy of the book to every student who majors either in business or economics when that student enters his or her junior year.

Why do you want to vote for Ayn Rand economics?

347 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:50:21pm

re: #342 BryanS

heh :)

Figured that's about how most would feel about the author, but I can't say I disagree with anything I quoted him writing about in my post.

How about the title?

Meet the Bainers, the New Birthers

Starts off in the hole.

348 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:50:53pm

re: #347 Kronocide

Isn't Erickson that guy who said he'd like to pull a shotgun when the census man comes?

349 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:51:36pm

re: #335 BryanS

I know most here probably won't like the author, but tell me where this snippet goes wrong from "Meet the Bainers, the New Birthers".

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

It sure looks like Romney left in 1999 to run the Olympics as a full time leave of absence. He may have wanted to leave open the possibility he would go back one day, but he never did.

Even if the Bain connection is shown incorrect and Romney wasn't around when jobs were sent offshore, the equivalency Erickson makes between the Birthers and the 'Bainers' is false. It's just another rwnj manipulation of the facts.

350 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:52:12pm

re: #348 Be Zorch, Daddio

Isn't Erickson that guy who said he'd like to pull a shotgun when the census man comes?

Erick Erickson will pull 'shotgun' over Census

351 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:52:37pm

re: #345 BryanS

I just don't see what the concern is vis-a-vis Bain. It seems irrational to me. The non-partisan fact checking types in the media don't seem to be buying what is really an argument being driven by the President's reelection campaign.

Let's start with the fact that it is yet another example of Mitt Romney's pathological lying about himself and his past. If he can't be honest about anything, even something as simple as his employment history, what kind of President will he be? And the real reason he's so afraid of admitting he ran Bain from 1999 to 2002? Stericycle - a company he invested in that disposed of waste from abortion clinics - a fact that would alienate his already dwindling base.

352 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:53:04pm

re: #348 Be Zorch, Daddio

Isn't Erickson that guy who said he'd like to pull a shotgun when the census man comes?

I'm sure he was really talking about his penis and having a pissing contest with the census man.

354 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:53:22pm

There are a few things I'm not clear on with the Bain story. There was a document he signed that was for establishing residency that said he returned often to do business in the company. Now if Mitt's defenders are correct and he had no involvement in Bain then his application to establish residency in 2001 would then be fraudulent. Was that document to establish voting residency or candidate residency? Would it be voter fraud or election fraud?

355 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:53:54pm

re: #348 Be Zorch, Daddio

Isn't Erickson that guy who said he'd like to pull a shotgun when the census man comes?

Maybe. I don't really follow him closely--followed a link from Instapundit. Kronocide pointed out his objection to the comparison to Birtherism. The Bain brouhaha seems about as rational of a criticism to me.

356 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:54:12pm

re: #353 Charles Johnson

Erick Erickson Threatens Any Census Taker With Wife's Shotgun.

Oh, it's his wife's shotgun...that makes sense.

357 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:54:15pm

re: #348 Be Zorch, Daddio

Isn't Erickson that guy who said he'd like to pull a shotgun when the census man comes?

Erickson is a guy who it's not even worth reviewing why he's a douche. One search on LFG will confirm level 7 Wingnut status.

358 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:55:59pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

That wouldn't settle anything, since Mitt Romney is still getting money from Bain Capital even unto this very day as part of his exit deal. Any returns would not necessarily show in what capacity Mitt got the money from Bain.

Moreover, releasing tax returns would just open Mitt up to attacks based off of those returns, with the detractors under no obligation to offer context as to why a thing was structured the way it was. No, releasing any such return is a bad idea.

Help me, Obfuscation, you're my only hope.

359 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:56:29pm

re: #357 Kronocide

Erickson is a guy who it's not even worth reviewing why he's a douche. One search on LFG will confirm level 7 Wingnut status.

A couple of years ago I might have been shocked at the level 7 status, but it has become so common, it's lost almost all meaning.

360 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:56:52pm

Where is my Honco Homey Obdicut?

361 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:56:55pm

re: #351 darthstar

Let's start with the fact that it is yet another example of Mitt Romney's pathological lying about himself and his past. If he can't be honest about anything, even something as simple as his employment history, what kind of President will he be? And the real reason he's so afraid of admitting he ran Bain from 1999 to 2002? Stericycle - a company he invested in that disposed of waste from abortion clinics - a fact that would alienate his already dwindling base.

Except running the Olympics was a full time job. He had much of his investments tied into Bain, and he wasn't going to go from CEO to cashing out in a short period of time. Winding down a lead person's involvement in the day to day is pretty common. Think of Bill Gates--it took a long time for him to wind down his involvement at the helm of that company. He still owns the lion's share of the company, but nobody would say he is responsible for management decisions of the company anymore.

362 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:57:00pm

Aren't many at red state "sympathetic' to the birthers? Comparing us to them means Red state thinks bainers are probably right! yay!

///

363 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:57:05pm

re: #345 BryanS

I just don't see what the concern is vis-a-vis Bain. It seems irrational to me. The non-partisan fact checking types in the media don't seem to be buying what is really an argument being driven by the President's reelection campaign.

For me, at best it shows that Romney is a misleading and cynical individual. He changes positions sometimes almost daily and will pander to every right wing lunatic out there. After seeing him sit silent after Ted Nugent's comments about the president we all became aware of what a man he truly is. Has Romney spoken out against the birtherism? Ever? I mean with deep feeling and conviction?

364 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:57:29pm

re: #358 It's a cookbook!

Help me, Obfuscation, you're my only hope.

Luke, I am your father's accountant.

365 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:57:42pm

re: #359 b_sharp

A couple of years ago I might have been shocked at the level 7 status, but it has become so common, it's lost almost all meaning.

Yes, a nanosecond after hitting post, I thought of Level 11ty!

366 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:59:16pm

Oh, dear...I never realized Tetris was so violent.

Image: 417737_10151042899754169_1623404502_n.jpg

367 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:59:18pm

This in light of Romney's palling around with birther dabbler extraordinaire, Donald Trump?

Give me a break.

Boo hoo. The "Bainers" are just like birthers. Meanwhile the real Bainer, Mitt Romney, is paling around with Donald Trump -- Mr. Birther.

368 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 8:59:52pm

Level 11ty with a Patriot Badge and Lower Taxation Wings

369 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:00:46pm

Birthers are going to be at least half of the Romney vote.

370 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:00:55pm

re: #361 BryanS

Except running the Olympics was a full time job. He had much of his investments tied into Bain, and he wasn't going to go from CEO to cashing out in a short period of time. Winding down a lead person's involvement in the day to day is pretty common. Think of Bill Gates--it took a long time for him to wind down his involvement at the helm of that company. He still owns the lion's share of the company, but nobody would say he is responsible for management decisions of the company anymore.

Reposted from someone:

Romney in 2002: “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

Romney in 2012: “I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

371 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:01:08pm

re: #368 Kronocide

Level 11ty with a Patriot Badge and Lower Taxation Wings

What happened to the Bachmann Badge?

372 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:01:21pm

re: #363 Gus

For me, at best it shows that Romney is a misleading and cynical individual. He changes positions sometimes almost daily and will pander to every right wing lunatic out there. After seeing him sit silent after Ted Nugent's comments about the president we all became aware of what a man he truly is. Has Romney spoken out against the birtherism? Ever? I mean with deep feeling and conviction?

I'm probably voting Romney, but I will agree his flip flopper problem is a bonafide problem. I don't think the Bain thing demonstrates flip flopperiness. One reason it won't be VP Rice? Abortion--picking Rice would highlight Romney's flipping on the issue.

373 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:01:39pm

re: #370 JamesWI

Reposted from someone:

Romney in 2002: “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

Romney in 2012: “I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

Apologize.

374 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:02:04pm

re: #371 b_sharp

What happened to the Bachmann Badge?

We'll figure that out after we finish the Palin Crosshairs review.

375 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:02:34pm

re: #335 BryanS

That comparison is completely wrong.

Birthers refuse to accept that Obama's birth certificate is legitimate and now it is the Mitt defenders who refuse to accept that the SEC filings are legitimate. In both cases, right wingers are the ones with made up alternative theories that fly in the face of the information in black and white on official government documents.

376 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:02:54pm

re: #369 Gus

Birthers are going to be at least half of the Romney vote.

Make that 81% in Texas.

377 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:03:20pm

re: #373 It's a cookbook!

Situational recall.

378 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:03:32pm

re: #372 BryanS

I'm probably voting Romney, but I will agree his flip flopper problem is a bonafide problem. I don't think the Bain thing demonstrates flip flopperiness. One reason it won't be VP Rice? Abortion--picking Rice would highlight Romney's flipping on the issue.

The Bain Thing demonstrates Little White Lies When You Don't Really Need To.

379 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:04:06pm

re: #372 BryanS

I'm probably voting Romney, but I will agree his flip flopper problem is a bonafide problem. I don't think the Bain thing demonstrates flip flopperiness. One reason it won't be VP Rice? Abortion--picking Rice would highlight Romney's flipping on the issue.

I used to like Romney back when I thought of him as a Rockefeller Republican of sorts. Not any more. This year he's shown his true colors. No excuses about him making himself out to be someone else to get votes. I don't see how conservatives can even stand the man. He's slippery and barely honest with anyone. That includes conservatives.

380 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:04:19pm

re: #372 BryanS

I'm probably voting Romney,

Why? Give one good reason for voting for Romney. It can't be his job creation...he was better at killing American jobs. It can't be his "business experience"...by his own admission he "did nothing as CEO, owner, and sole shareholder" of Bain. It can't be his record as Governor (#47 in job creation) and that socialist medical thing he fathered but hates. All that's left is that he's white and he's Republican.

381 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:04:30pm

re: #369 Gus

What is kind of delightfully funny is that some birthers probably read that article and thought "Yeah, those damn bainers are as bad as birthers!"

382 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:04:40pm

The most depressing thing about this thread is how quickly the conservatives here are willing to consort with homophobes, bigots, and libertarian whackos because OH NOOOO BAIN

383 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:04:55pm

re: #345 BryanS

I just don't see what the concern is vis-a-vis Bain. It seems irrational to me. The non-partisan fact checking types in the media don't seem to be buying what is really an argument being driven by the President's reelection campaign.

In part, it's not necessarily that he still had some pretty significant involvement with Bain Capital entities after his 1999 "retirement", it's that he's seemingly lying his ass off about it, even when documents filed by BC entities at the SEC between 1999 and 2002 (among other things) clearly show he was still very much involved and very much in control, if not directly.

It's the whole argument that Congress hung on President Clinton during his impeachment (which I didn't agree with, because it was clearly partisan BS, with a kernel of truth): he wasn't impeached for getting BJs from Monica Lewinsky, it's the fact that he lied under oath to a grand jury about it.

The same logic, right or wrong, applies to Romney in all of this; he signed on most, if not all, of those SEC filings during that period. Either he was still nominally in control of the various BC entities during the period of the SEC filings in question (in which case he's lying his ass off right now) or he wasn't in control of BC entities during that period (in which case he may have been involved in filing false statements to the SEC [which they tend to not like very much]); it can't be both.

384 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:05:56pm

re: #380 darthstar

Why? Give one good reason for voting for Romney. It can't be his job creation...he was better at killing American jobs. It can't be his "business experience"...by his own admission he "did nothing as CEO, owner, and sole shareholder" of Bain. It can't be his record as Governor (#47 in job creation) and that socialist medical thing he fathered but hates. All that's left is that he's white and he's Republican.

HE SAVED THE OLYMPICS!!!

385 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:06:23pm

re: #379 Gus

I used to like Romney back when I thought of him as a Rockefeller Republican of sorts. Not any more. This year he's shown his true colors. No excuses about him making himself out to be someone else to get votes. I don't see how conservatives can even stand the man. He's slippery and barely honest with anyone. That includes conservatives.

They'll dump him and adhere to Ron Paul.

386 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:06:38pm

re: #375 Mich-again

That comparison is completely wrong.

Birthers refuse to accept that Obama's birth certificate is legitimate and now it is the Mitt defenders who refuse to accept that the SEC filings are legitimate. In both cases, right wingers are the ones with made up alternative theories that fly in the face of the information in black and white on official government documents.

Romney would have no time to run Bain and also succeed as he did in running the Olympics at the same time. It's just obvious that no human being would have the capacity to manage both at the same time, but no amount of common sense will appease Romney's critics. Partisanship prevents that.

387 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:06:40pm

re: #382 Be Zorch, Daddio

The most depressing thing about this thread is how the quickly the conservatives here are willing to consort with homophobes, bigots, and libertarian whackos because OH NOOO BAIN

Maybe someone should propose tax cuts for interracial gay sex.

388 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:07:48pm

re: #384 It's a cookbook!

HE SAVED THE OLYMPICS!!!

Funny you know. Here I though that the Olympics was considered an "internationalist boondoggle" by the more libertarian folks on the R side. Something for "liberal greenies", Australians, Chinese and Germans!!11ty

389 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:08:41pm

re: #386 BryanS

Romney would have no time to run Bain and also succeed as he did in running the Olympics at the same time. It's just obvious that no human being would have the capacity to manage both at the same time, but no amount of common sense will appease Romney's critics. Partisanship prevents that.

"Manage?" He claims he had nothing to do with company after '99.

It's looking pretty damn likely that he lied.

390 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:08:47pm

re: #379 Gus

I used to like Romney back when I thought of him as a Rockefeller Republican of sorts. Not any more. This year he's shown his true colors. No excuses about him making himself out to be someone else to get votes. I don't see how conservatives can even stand the man. He's slippery and barely honest with anyone. That includes conservatives.

Part of his flip flopperiness was he made himself Rockefeller Republican in order to become governor of a deep blue state.

391 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:08:57pm

re: #386 BryanS

Romney would have no time to run Bain and also succeed as he did in running the Olympics at the same time. It's just obvious that no human being would have the capacity to manage both at the same time, but no amount of common sense will appease Romney's critics. Partisanship prevents that.

The Olympics were a three week event in February of 2000...in other words, Romney can only use them to excuse his involvement with Bain from February 1999 to February 2000. It's what he signed in the two years AFTER the Olympics that he can't use the Olympics to excuse.

392 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:09:25pm

re: #388 Gus

Thar be GOLD in dem medals

393 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:09:27pm

Gay sex is the ultimate birth control, therefore the ultimate sin.

394 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:09:45pm

re: #388 Gus

Funny you know. Here I though that the Olympics was considered an "internationalist boondoggle" by the more libertarian folks on the R side. Something for "liberal greenies", Australians, Chinese and Germans!!11ty

Well, you were right when you thought he was more of a Rockefeller Republican.

Was.

395 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:09:52pm

Here's what I think is the clincher. That he's so quick to disassociate himself from Bain because "I left in 1999". Yet at the same time he's saying, but there's nothing wrong with Bain. But he's glad he left in 1999? Which is it? He's trying to have it both ways.

"Yes, I realize that Bain did a lot of bad things but I was already gone from Bain. But still, even though they did bad things there's no reason why I would not have been proud to have been with them at that time..."

Even thought the SEC docs say otherwise.

396 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:10:15pm

re: #393 Kronocide

Gay sex is the ultimate birth control, therefore the ultimate sin.

A horrendous waste of seed.

397 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:10:30pm

It's passive-aggressive.

398 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:10:35pm

Even more Romney signatures on Bain deals

[Link: blog.thephoenix.com...]

399 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:10:47pm
400 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:03pm

"Hey. I was already gone from Bain when they were investing in aborted fetus disposal in China. Still. Bain is a good company."

401 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:06pm

re: #395 Gus

Here's what I think is the clincher. That he's so quick to disassociate himself from Bain because "I left in 1999". Yet at the same time he's saying, but there's nothing wrong with Bain. But he's glad he left in 1999? Which is it? He's trying to have it both ways.

"Yes, I realize that Bain did a lot of bad things but I was already gone from Bain. But still, even though they did bad things there's no reason why I would not have been proud to have been with them at that time..."

Even thought the SEC docs say otherwise.

Watch tonight's interviews. He was careful to not call Bain's activities bad.

402 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:09pm

re: #397 Gus

It's passive-aggressive.

It's buy-polar.

403 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:22pm

re: #386 BryanS

Romney would have no time to run Bain and also succeed as he did in running the Olympics at the same time. It's just obvious that no human being would have the capacity to manage both at the same time, but no amount of common sense will appease Romney's critics. Partisanship prevents that.

Nonsense. You have no idea how things get done at that level. Mitt wasn't at a desk slaving over a pile of paperwork like Bob Cratchett on Christmas Eve. He's taking calls, cutting deals, getting updates at meetings, interviewing assistants, getting briefed over lunch, having strategy sessions..

To say he would be so darn busy working on the Olympics that he would be unable to take a few calls here and there with Bain business is just silly.

404 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:38pm

re: #380 darthstar

Why? Give one good reason for voting for Romney. It can't be his job creation...he was better at killing American jobs. It can't be his "business experience"...by his own admission he "did nothing as CEO, owner, and sole shareholder" of Bain. It can't be his record as Governor (#47 in job creation) and that socialist medical thing he fathered but hates. All that's left is that he's white and he's Republican.

He understands the economy. As governor of a deep blue state, he was an effective head of state who managed to move legislation with a legislature with an overwhelming opposition. That demonstrates leadership and and an ability to get things done. He has a good understanding of business and the economy.

405 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:11:40pm

re: #402 b_sharp

It's buy-polar.

I chuckled.

406 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:12:45pm

re: #402 b_sharp

It's buy-polar.

Very common with the moralizing captains of industry types.

407 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:12:46pm

re: #404 BryanS

He understands the economy... He has a good understanding of business and the economy.

Say it enough times and it might come true.

408 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:13:33pm

re: #383 TedStriker

Romney was still the main principle of the company. As such, he had to sign off SEC filings even if he had nothing to do with making management decisions. This is pretty ho-hum common stuff. That's why it's a documentation gotcha 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

409 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:13:34pm

re: #404 BryanS

He understands how to make a few people super rich while fucking over the middle class

fixed for you

410 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:13:55pm

re: #402 b_sharp

It's buy-polar.

Don't be such a dille-taunt.

411 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:14:41pm

re: #389 It's a cookbook!

"Manage?" He claims he had nothing to do with company after '99.

It's looking pretty damn likely that he lied.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

"I was the owner of the entity that was filing this information, but I had no role whatsoever in the management of Bain Capital after 1999. I left in February of 1999," he told CNN. "There's nothing wrong with being associated with Bain Capital, of course."

412 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:14:58pm

re: #393 Kronocide

Gay sex is the ultimate birth control, therefore the ultimate sin.

Well,a gay Catholic friend is fond of telling me that he and his partner are open to conception, as the Church tells them they should be. Not optimistic, but open..

Then again, I heard the same joke from a straight Catholic friend who married his lady friend when they were both in their sixties.

413 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:14:58pm

re: #404 BryanS

As governor of a deep blue state, he was an effective head of state who managed to move legislation with a legislature with an overwhelming opposition.

LOL:

In 2006, the Massachusetts legislature approved a budget for fiscal year 2007 that required spending $450 million from the rainy day fund. Even though the state had collected a record-breaking amount of tax revenue in the fiscal year, the funds were needed to cover the increased spending. Romney vetoed the transfer of funds from the contingency account. The veto was overturned by the legislature, and indeed for the 2006 budget, all 250 line-item vetoes were overturned, and for the entire year of 2006, all of Romney's vetoes of legislative bills were subsequently overturned by the Massachusetts Legislature.

414 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:15:43pm

So the "defense" now is that Romney rushed out the door in such a hurry, he never had time to do more than throw the keys to somebody else, but leaving him on the hook for all the important paperwork with the SEC?

Works great, if all you're arguing is that the guy was not making the decisions. If you're trying to argue that he bears no responsibility, then that's just absurd.

415 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:15:44pm

re: #391 darthstar

The Olympics were a three week event in February of 2000...in other words, Romney can only use them to excuse his involvement with Bain from February 1999 to February 2000. It's what he signed in the two years AFTER the Olympics that he can't use the Olympics to excuse.

correction...2002 Winter Olymics. Romney had nothing to do with the 2000 summer olympics.

416 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:15:45pm

re: #404 BryanS

He understands the economy. As governor of a deep blue state, he was an effective head of state who managed to move legislation with a legislature with an overwhelming opposition. That demonstrates leadership and and an ability to get things done. He has a good understanding of business and the economy.

If he thinks that what he did at Bain has any relevance to what he could or should do as head of the executive branch of the federal government, then he doesn't understand the economy. The United States is not a business and can't be run like one.

417 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:16:30pm

re: #393 Kronocide

Gay sex is the ultimate birth control, therefore the ultimate sin.

Shouldn't social cons be in favor of gay sex then? no abortions, right?.....right?

418 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:16:34pm

Yeah, Romney flew back to MA for those meetings just to serve coffee.

Those documents he signed trading stocks in Bain investments? Did it blindfolded. Had no idea or say in how those deals were put together.

419 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:16:45pm

re: #413 Interesting Times

LOL:

I think this is the point where we get told about how he balanced the budget, without acknowledging that every governor of MA is required by law to do so.

420 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:17:07pm

re: #345 BryanS

I just don't see what the concern is vis-a-vis Bain. It seems irrational to me. The non-partisan fact checking types in the media don't seem to be buying what is really an argument being driven by the President's reelection campaign.

The concern is about personal integrity, something the non-partisan "fact checking" types don't have and that Romney voters don't seem to care about. One doesn't get to own 100% of a company's stock shares, hold several of it's highest corporate leadership titles, retain ultimate hiring and firing authority, draw a six figure earned income from it for years while washing their hands of all responsibility and consequences regarding its business. To attempt to do so is shady, unethical, untrustworthy and sadly utterly in character for Mitt Romney.

421 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:18:11pm

Ronmey "understands" the economy, and Bush was our first MBA president.

meep

422 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:18:13pm

re: #404 BryanS

He understands the economy. As governor of a deep blue state, he was an effective head of state who managed to move legislation with a legislature with an overwhelming opposition. That demonstrates leadership and and an ability to get things done. He has a good understanding of business and the economy.

He also apparently had a helluva staff when he was MA governor, because the crew running his presidential campaign sucks...and as the candidate, he is ultimately responsible for the direction of said campaign.

Think about it...with the gaffefest this has been the Romney 2012 presidential campaign, how can anyone say with a straight face (and without being partisan) that Romney impresses them and that things will improve if he's elected President?

423 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:18:15pm

re: #420 goddamnedfrank

The concern is about personal integrity, something the non-partisan "fact checking" types don't have and that Romney voters don't seem to care about. One doesn't get to own 100% of a company's stock shares, hold several of it's highest corporate leadership titles, retain ultimate hiring and firing authority, draw a six figure earned income from it for years while washing your hands of all responsibility and consequences regarding its business. To attempt to do so is shady, unethical, untrustworthy and sadly utterly in character for Mitt Romney.

You're no better than a Birther!

424 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:19:16pm

re: #395 Gus

Here's what I think is the clincher. That he's so quick to disassociate himself from Bain because "I left in 1999". Yet at the same time he's saying, but there's nothing wrong with Bain. But he's glad he left in 1999? Which is it? He's trying to have it both ways.

"Yes, I realize that Bain did a lot of bad things but I was already gone from Bain. But still, even though they did bad things there's no reason why I would not have been proud to have been with them at that time..."

Even thought the SEC docs say otherwise.

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Romney left Bain, but still owned Bain stock...a lot of it. So yeah, he was still affiliated with Bain as an owner, but he didn't run it.

425 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:20:51pm

re: #424 BryanS

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Romney left Bain, but still owned Bain stock...a lot of it. So yeah, he was still affiliated with Bain as an owner, but he didn't run it.

He didn't just "still owned Bain stock," he was the sole stockowner.

426 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:21:54pm

re: #403 Mich-again

Nonsense. You have no idea how things get done at that level. Mitt wasn't at a desk slaving over a pile of paperwork like Bob Cratchett on Christmas Eve. He's taking calls, cutting deals, getting updates at meetings, interviewing assistants, getting briefed over lunch, having strategy sessions..

To say he would be so darn busy working on the Olympics that he would be unable to take a few calls here and there with Bain business is just silly.

That stuff takes time. You've pretty much described a typical day in the life of a CEO--that's pretty much the same kinds of things he would have done at Bain as well. He couldn't have had time to wheel and deal for Bain while he was wheeling and dealing for the Olympics.

427 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:23:06pm

re: #424 BryanS

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Romney left Bain, but still owned Bain stock...a lot of it. So yeah, he was still affiliated with Bain as an owner, but he didn't run it.

Well. Looking from the outside for a moment. Romney was weak in his defense today. Almost playing, by golly, the role of a "Sarah Palin" character. How come he's not standing up for himself and seemingly playing this debutante role? Why isn't he saying "that's what happened and that's what I did."

"If that's what it said in the SEC documents than yes, I was the CEO during that time and I'm gosh darn proud of those years."

Instead? Drip, drip, drip.

428 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:23:32pm

re: #424 BryanS

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Romney left Bain, but still owned Bain stock...a lot of it. So yeah, he was still affiliated with Bain as an owner, but he didn't run it.

Gates is still Microsoft's Chairman of the Board. He's not pretending that he "left."

429 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:23:49pm

That's what Dick Cheney would do. ;)

430 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:24:03pm

‘It’s time the biggest-taxing senator in Washington shows the people of Massachusetts how much he pays in taxes,” said Romney, a business consultant from Belmont. Romney said he would disclose his own state and federal taxes for the last three years ‘on the very day that Kennedy turns over his taxes for public scrutiny.’
[Boston Globe, 4/19/94]

431 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:24:21pm

"You see Bob. I'm proud of Haliburton. I think most Americans ought to be to."

//

432 Majacita  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:26:07pm

If someone is the president, chairman and sole stock holder then who else was in charge? Who was the CEO if it wasn't Mitt? Has anyone stepped forward and said they were in charge? He's still signing documents related to deals. Is he signing things without knowing what he's signing? Is that how Massachusetts got Romney Care?

433 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:26:36pm

re: #425 Targetpractice

He didn't just "still owned Bain stock," he was the sole stockowner.

He isn't now, right? As a business owner, you don't just divest your entire stake in a company overnight. That would be a good way to destroy the value in your company and close its doors. A few years seems reasonable to unwind something like Romney's position and stake in Bain.

434 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:27:05pm

re: #433 BryanS

Excuses, excuses.

435 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:27:07pm

re: #426 BryanS

He couldn't have had time to wheel and deal for Bain while he was wheeling and dealing for the Olympics.

Oh sure he could. Easy. Heck, there might have been synergy lining up corporate sponsors for the Olympics and cutting deals for Bain at the same time.

436 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:27:26pm

Look. This probably won't last more than 3 weeks. Chill out.

437 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:27:54pm

PDF layer analysis of the SEC filings?

438 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:27:58pm

That's the thing about us liberals. We move on real quick.

439 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:28:11pm

re: #431 Gus

"You see Bob. I'm proud of Haliburton. I think most Americans ought to be to."

//

440 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:28:30pm

re: #437 Kronocide

PDF layer analysis of the SEC filings?

Photoshop expert AND author.

441 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:28:33pm

re: #424 BryanS

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Romney left Bain, but still owned Bain stock...a lot of it. So yeah, he was still affiliated with Bain as an owner, but he didn't run it.

Gates may have owned and still may own a lot of stock in the company he helped create, but he was and is far from the largest shareholder in MS since that time. Even if Mitt wasn't running day-to-day operations in the BC family, he sure as hell knew what was going on and certified that to the SEC (see: Stericycle, etc.); as president and CotB, if he was doing his proper fiduciary duties, he would be in the know to what the company was doing and helping to plan corporate strategy.

The fact that he was also sole stockholder just cements the fact that Romney had the juice within the BC family during that period.

442 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:28:34pm

Sorry, but I'm going to clear out for the night. I just bought the PDF for a new Battletech book and I'm reading it now. Goodnight.

443 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:28:52pm

re: #437 Kronocide

PDF layer analysis of the SEC filings?

HEAT SIGNATURES

444 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:29:10pm

re: #436 Gus

Look. This probably won't last more than 3 weeks. Chill out.

The GOP convention is gonna be a circus. Can't wait.

445 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:29:13pm

re: #442 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but I'm going to clear out for the night. I just bought the PDF for a new Battletech book and I'm reading it now. Goodnight.

You pay for PDFs?

446 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:29:28pm

re: #439 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Thank you. Good night. And may God bless the United States of America.

[Quick little salute.]

[Dobro slide]

447 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:29:41pm

re: #433 BryanS

He isn't now, right? As a business owner, you don't just divest your entire stake in a company overnight. That would be a good way to destroy the value in your company and close its doors. A few years seems reasonable to unwind something like Romney's position and stake in Bain.

So who was in charge? Who was making the decisions? And why should their decisions not reflect on the guy they were letting run things while they were away?

Seriously, do you think that delegating his decision-making powers while his exit was negotiated means he also absolved himself of any responsibility for the decisions made by the guy(s) he'd delegated to?

448 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:29:56pm

If you own a car and hire somebody else to drive it without actively managing their behavior are you still responsible for the car and the decision to let them behind the wheel? Why should a business be any different?

449 Majacita  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:30:20pm

They have managed to make Romney's time at Bain something he is trying to run away from. If he can't run on his record at Bain, can't run on his record in Massachusetts, Why are we supposed to vote for him?

450 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:30:23pm

re: #446 Gus

Thank you. Good night. And may God bless the United States of America.

[Quick little salute.]

[Dobro slide]

#endofquote

451 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:30:38pm

re: #448 goddamnedfrank

If you own a car and hire somebody else drive it without actively managing their behavior are you still responsible for the car and the decision to let them drive it? Why should a business be any different?

Because business-owners don't want to be held accountable?

452 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:30:49pm

re: #450 darthstar

#endofquote

Hail to the chief.

453 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:31:15pm

re: #448 goddamnedfrank

If you own a car and hire somebody else drive it without actively managing their behavior are you still responsible for the car and the decision to let them drive it? Why should a business be any different?

Cars aren't people. Corporations are.

454 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:32:06pm

re: #453 darthstar

Cars aren't people. Corporations are.

Don't let Christine hear you say that mister.

455 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:32:24pm

Romney snacks. Grudgingly. Fear I might not be known as being "fair and balanced."

Romney declares independence from birthers at NAACP convention

456 darthstar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:32:29pm

re: #454 goddamnedfrank

Don't let Christine hear you say that mister.

I'll have Cujo pee on her tires.

457 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:32:43pm

I am still. A gentleman.

[Bows]

458 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:33:49pm

Welcome to the big time Mitt.

459 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:34:12pm

re: #447 Targetpractice

So who was in charge? Who was making the decisions? And why should their decisions not reflect on the guy they were letting run things while they were away?

Seriously, do you think that delegating his decision-making powers while his exit was negotiated means he also absolved himself of any responsibility for the decisions made by the guy(s) he'd delegated to?

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners. If Romney wasn't managing the day to day, then he's not responsible for management decisions just because he is the owner. No idea who was running the show when Romney left--there's no way Romney would have had the time to. I think originally Romney probably wanted to leave open the possibility that he would go back to running the day-to-day at Bain, but had an opportunity to run for office in MS, so he made his split more permanent then.

460 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:34:13pm

I've heard it time and time again. "Obama can't run on his record." Well, apparently neither can Romney.

461 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:36:14pm

re: #449 Majacita

We will vote for him because he is a successful American business man and will run the country like a corporation. Why we could shrink the government by outsourcing all government and federal jobs to china!

462 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:36:57pm

re: #441 TedStriker

An edit: Bill Gates is the largest shareholder in MS (Ballmer's #2), but he still only holds about 5% of MS stock, nowhere near Mitt's total control of BC stock until he finally got out.

463 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:37:05pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners.

Legally, you're right. Politically, if he want to take credit for Bain, he puts himself in the position of having to accept responsibility for everything that put money in his pocket.

464 freetoken  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:37:22pm

re: #459 BryanS

If Romney wasn't managing the day to day, then he's not responsible for management decisions just because he is the owner.

And that is a fundamental moral flaw that has wedged its way into contemporary American society.

Romney was the owner, and got the key benefit (profits), but he doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility.

In the old days, when nobility took this stance, it eventually led to social structures that couldn't stand.

So no, I'm not cheering on this return to hierarchical power structures of old.

465 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:38:33pm

Why would a businessman be a good government administrator?

You'll get 'fired' for not being a good citizen. Only the best 'citizens' get promoted and advance.

Hm... sounds like a vodka drinking game.

466 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:40:09pm

You know the greatest loss to domestic manufacturing jobs was never immigrants or outsourcing. It was through automation and data base efficiency.

467 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:40:56pm

re: #465 Kronocide

Why would a businessman be a good government administrator?

You'll get 'fired' for not being a good citizen. Only the best 'citizens' get promoted and advance.

Hm... sounds like a vodka drinking game.

I knew it sucked the first day I had my first job.

"So that's the way you're going to be?"

//

468 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:42:44pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners. If Romney wasn't managing the day to day, then he's not responsible for management decisions just because he is the owner. No idea who was running the show when Romney left--there's no way Romney would have had the time to. I think originally Romney probably wanted to leave open the possibility that he would go back to running the day-to-day at Bain, but had an opportunity to run for office in MS, so he made his split more permanent then.

So he was leaving open the possibility, drawing a six-figure salary, and ultimately profiting off the decisions made...but he can't be held responsible for them.

Yet another reason that you can't run a government like a business, because when you're sitting in the Oval Office, when the people you appoint screw things up, it always ends up on your desk. It may not be right, it may not be fair, but that's how it works.

469 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:44:17pm

re: #463 jaunte

Legally, you're right. Politically, if he want to take credit for Bain, he puts himself in the position of having to accept responsibility for everything that put money in his pocket.

That is true politically, but that's a dangerous game to play since all political leaders of both major parties have significant investments. It is hard to be a purist when investing.

470 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:44:53pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners. If Romney wasn't managing the day to day, then he's not responsible for management decisions just because he is the owner. No idea who was running the show when Romney left--there's no way Romney would have had the time to. I think originally Romney probably wanted to leave open the possibility that he would go back to running the day-to-day at Bain, but had an opportunity to run for office in MS, so he made his split more permanent then.

Would you settle on bumbling? Mitt Romney is kind of a bumbling guy.

There goes Bumbles Romney.

[Dean Martin sings.]

471 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:46:28pm

re: #469 BryanS

That is true politically, but that's a dangerous game to play since all political leaders of both major parties have significant investments. It is hard to be a purist when investing.

And they use them against each other every chance they get, so I'm not sure I understand why Romney gets a pass.

The blind trust is an age-old ruse.

-Willard Romney

472 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:46:34pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners.

He was still involved and responsible though. Do you really not get that in retaining sole ownership, thus ultimate hiring and firing authority he was tacitly approving of everything his managers did? By granting himself those corporate titles and paying himself six figures in earned income salary he was setting up a relationship where the business he owned paid him ostensibly for his oversight and the functions he performed as CEO, Chairman, President and Managing Partner. Even if the argument is that he did nothing, then he still got paid to do nothing and his choice to remain inactive equates directly to support for what was going on.

Face it, he profited by salary instead of strict appreciation, that's involvement. He did nothing to remove himself from the mechanisms of control, that's responsibility. He signed off on key deals, that's approval. He's playing semantic games with the truth, that's not leadership.

473 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:47:07pm

re: #466 Gus

You know the greatest loss to domestic manufacturing jobs was never immigrants or outsourcing. It was through automation and data base efficiency.

Good point. That was good 'creative destruction' as they say. It lead to other higher paying jobs in information technology, and an overall higher productivity level that improved the quality of life for all. Now if only we could outsource those pesky labor unions to the countries we are losing jobs to. That would be the surest way to get those countries to re-export jobs back to us :)

474 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:47:15pm

There was only one George Romney.

Don't accept the other brand.

475 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:47:23pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners. If Romney wasn't managing the day to day, then he's not responsible for management decisions just because he is the owner. No idea who was running the show when Romney left--there's no way Romney would have had the time to. I think originally Romney probably wanted to leave open the possibility that he would go back to running the day-to-day at Bain, but had an opportunity to run for office in MS, so he made his split more permanent then.

If that were the case, Romney ought to have named a interim CEO. Apple did it whenever Steve Jobs was on leave. And most people would agree, Jobs was still calling the shots when he was on leave. Why would Apple, a very shrewd company run by even more shrewd people, would go into so much trouble on naming interim CEOs, when it's "not a big deal" according to you?

476 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:47:30pm

re: #468 Targetpractice

So he was leaving open the possibility, drawing a six-figure salary, and ultimately profiting off the decisions made...but he can't be held responsible for them.

Yet another reason that you can't run a government like a business, because when you're sitting in the Oval Office, when the people you appoint screw things up, it always ends up on your desk. It may not be right, it may not be fair, but that's how it works.

Precisely...POTUS is a working, full-time position, though it might not seem to be sometimes; hell, one doesn't need to look any further than to how most Presidents age very rapidly and before their time while in office (Clinton, W, and even Obama bear this out); it is not and cannot be a figurehead position.

Romney, at the very least, is out of his element and in over his head in wanting this position, IMO.

477 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:47:54pm

re: #464 freetoken

And that is a fundamental moral flaw that has wedged its way into contemporary American society.

Romney was the owner, and got the key benefit (profits), but he doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility.

In the old days, when nobility took this stance, it eventually led to social structures that couldn't stand.

So no, I'm not cheering on this return to hierarchical power structures of old.

I am really glad that Romney was forced to admit this is how he thinks though. It's highly instructive.

478 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:48:02pm

I mean like George met with Saul Alinsky. Proudly photographed almost. Not so great pic. Still. No one gave it any thought.

479 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:48:30pm

Also, liability does not equal responsibility.

480 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:48:49pm

So what is it that Bain was doing between the years of '99-'01 that Romney doesn't agree with? From all appearances, he approved of everything they were doing, as he had no problem taking the paychecks.

481 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:49:04pm

re: #470 Gus

Would you settle on bumbling? Mitt Romney is kind of a bumbling guy.

There goes Bumbles Romney.

[Dean Martin sings.]

Romney's no bumbler. Where he stands--his shifting positions--that's not bumbling, but it is his weakness.

482 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:49:07pm

But now. Simple liberals like me get associated with left wing death squads.

I make it a point of never pulling a Godwin.

483 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:51:13pm

re: #480 Targetpractice

So what is it that Bain was doing between the years of '99-'01 that Romney doesn't agree with? From all appearances, he approved of everything they were doing, as he had no problem taking the paychecks.

He's too cagey to admit that he doesn't agree with it. He left in February '99 and that's all there is to it, as far as he's concerned.

484 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:51:19pm

re: #476 TedStriker

Precisely...POTUS is a working, full-time position, though it might not seem to be sometimes; hell, one doesn't need to look any further than to how most Presidents age rapidly and before their time while in office (Clinton, W, and even Obama bear this out); it is not and cannot be a figurehead position.

Romney, at the very least, is out of his element and in over his head in wanting this position, IMO.

There's something I've observed over time: The more a person desires a position, the less qualified they seem. And as a corollary: The more competent a person is for a position, the faster they tend to run from it. Not always true, but close enough.

485 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:52:00pm

re: #481 BryanS

Romney's no bumbler. Where he stands--his shifting positions--that's not bumbling, but it is his weakness.

Had Romney been a Democrat the Republicans would have been calling him a draft dodger.

486 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:52:28pm

re: #472 goddamnedfrank

A sole owner isn't the same thing as a person responsible for hiring/firing and making management decisions. A well run company would have a board, even if it is privately held. Romney would have vested all decision making power in this board. At the same time, during those few years of transition, the company was being prepared to be taken public. That board would have been the management team investors were buying into. And apparently, the prospectus given to investors were told specifically of Romney's lack of involvement in managing the company.

487 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:52:40pm

re: #475 andres

Apple is a very together organization. Romney is NOT a together kind of guy.
Nor is Romney a leader of visionary in the sense that Steve Jobs was.

488 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:52:56pm

re: #484 andres

There's something I've observed over time: The more a person desires a position, the less qualified they seem. And as a corollary: The more competent a person is for a position, the faster they tend to run from it. Not always true, but close enough.

Peter Principle in action.

489 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:53:12pm

re: #481 BryanS

Romney's no bumbler. Where he stands--his shifting positions--that's not bumbling, but it is his weakness.

I agree that Romney's not a bumbler; he's can be very capable when he wants to be (see: MassCare, 2002 Winter Olympics). What has become most evident is that he's a triangulating, conniving opportunist that has no problems throwing himself (of the past) under the bus if it gets him closer to the WH.

490 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:53:13pm

I was a little suprised to find out that William Weld* (former MA governor) endorsed Romney early in 2008, but came around to support Obama during the general. I wonder if we'll hear anything interesting from him later in the election cycle.

*He was the moderate Republican who resigned his governorship to take up the ambassadorship to Mexico but his appointment was blocked by Jesse Helms.

491 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:53:33pm

re: #480 Targetpractice

So what is it that Bain was doing between the years of '99-'01 that Romney doesn't agree with? From all appearances, he approved of everything they were doing, as he had no problem taking the paychecks.

THE FETUS DISPOSAL

492 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:54:33pm

re: #489 TedStriker

I agree that Romney's not a bumbler; he's can be very capable when he wants to be (see: MassCare, 2002 Winter Olympics). What has become most evident is that he's a triangulating, conniving opportunist that has no problems throwing himself (of the past) under the bus if it gets him closer to the WH.

Why would he even want the job, is still an open question.

493 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:54:36pm

re: #485 Gus

Had Romney been a Democrat the Republicans would have been calling him a draft dodger.

Was he a draft dodger? The left had no problem going after GW Bush for his service, or lack thereof, record.

494 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:54:48pm

Apparently Romney is "The Man Who Wasn't There," since he was never anywhere to be seen when things went bad, but was always on the scene when he could take credit for something.

495 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:54:54pm

I just don't understand why Romney even feels the need to distance himself from bain after a certain date. Nothing Bain did really goes against right wingers values. except maybe some aborted fetus brooh-ha which i don't know much about. the right are still going to vote for him no matter what any one finds on Romney short of declaring himself anti Christ and setting up house with his liberal gay lover who happens to work at an abortion clinic.

496 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:55:32pm

re: #489 TedStriker

I agree that Romney's not a bumbler; he's can be very capable when he wants to be (see: MassCare, 2002 Winter Olympics). What has become most evident is that he's a triangulating, conniving opportunist that has no problems throwing himself (of the past) under the bus if it gets him closer to the WH.

So he's just like Clinton? He'll make a good president then :)

497 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:56:07pm

re: #493 BryanS

Was he a draft dodger? The left had no problem going after GW Bush for his service, or lack thereof, record.

He roughed it out in France...

498 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:56:56pm

re: #493 BryanS

Was he a draft dodger? The left had no problem going after GW Bush for his service, or lack thereof, record.

Do you think he wanted to die there?

499 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:57:11pm

re: #486 BryanS

Golden Rule of Modern American Business: He who has the gold, makes the rules.

As sole stockholder in the BC family of companies during that period, it's a safe bet that nothing went on without his tacit approval, at least. When you throw in the corporate positions that he still nominally held (at least on paper) and certified to the SEC in official filings, you can bet your ass he still had his finger in the pie.

500 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:57:21pm

re: #497 It's a cookbook!

He roughed it out in France...

Forced to subsist on nothing but wine and baguettes. Absolutely inhuman.

///

501 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:57:40pm

I think you can tell how effective a manager is by how well things go when they are away. If you have to be right there in order for it all to work, then you're not that good. Slackers make the best managers. They delegate their whole job to people below them.

502 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:58:29pm

re: #500 Targetpractice

Forced to subsist on nothing but wine and baguettes. Absolutely inhuman.

///

Takes a special set of balls to attend counter-protests then hightail it to France.

503 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:59:05pm

re: #501 Mich-again

I think you can tell how effective a manager is by how well things go when they are away. If you have to be right there in order for it all to work, then you're not that good. Slackers make the best managers. They delegate their whole job to people below them.

I never knew I was management material.

504 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:59:31pm

I'm not responsible for it. I just make money off it.

505 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 9:59:32pm

re: #495 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I just don't understand why Romney even feels the need to distance himself from bain after a certain date. Nothing Bain did really goes against right wingers values. except maybe some aborted fetus brooh-ha which i don't know much about. the right are still going to vote for him no matter what any one finds on Romney short of declaring himself anti Christ and setting up house with his liberal gay lover who happens to work at an abortion clinic.

He is their last chance and therefore they must accept him in all his glory. Bain, Mormon high priest etc. A throw-a-way that they do not support 100%. (Bob Dole) Really, like McCain as well. They want and need their Reagan zombie, but he doesn't exist. YET!

506 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:00:34pm

re: #497 It's a cookbook!

He roughed it out in France...

The Dems should be hammering the French connection...we did it to Kerry.

507 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:00:35pm

re: #496 BryanS

So he's just like Clinton? He'll make a good president then :)

Clinton is a smart dude, Romney, a born into it dude.

508 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:00:43pm

So the religious reason for Romney not going to Vietnam wasn't because of any non-violent religious reasons.

509 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:00:58pm

re: #459 BryanS

Yes. That's the purpose of a corporation--to separate liability from owners.

And bonus Separate Accountability too!. Extra Patriot Musket cookies for that sweet action.

510 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:01:18pm

re: #487 Dancing along the light of day

Apple is a very together organization. Romney is NOT a together kind of guy.
Nor is Romney a leader of visionary in the sense that Steve Jobs was.

I agree completely. Romney is not in the same league as Jobs.

But I also doubt that Jobs was managing the legal in & outs of Apple at any time, which this SEC fillings seem to be. And I also doubt that the legal staff at Bain didn't know or were incompetent.

511 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:01:38pm

re: #507 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Clinton is a smart dude, Romney, a born into it dude.

AMC

Dad? Can I borrow 20,000 dollars?

Why sure thing son.

That's swell dad.

512 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:01:47pm

re: #499 TedStriker

Golden Rule of Modern American Business: He who has the gold, makes the rules.

As sole stockholder in the BC family of companies during that period, it's a safe bet that nothing went on without his tacit approval, at least. When you throw in the corporate positions that he still nominally held (at least on paper) and certified to the SEC in official filings, you can bet your ass he still had his finger in the pie.

Rafalca concurs.

513 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:02:09pm

Dad? I want to go to MIT.

Why sure thing son.

514 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:02:28pm

re: #506 BryanS

The Dems should be hammering the French connection...we did it to Kerry.

And looked absolutely stupid for doing so. I can't remember many voters who went to the polls going "I can't believe the guy likes the French!"

515 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:02:56pm
ROMNEY: Well, there's nothing wrong with being associated with Bain Capital, of course. But the truth is that I left any role at Bain Capital in February of '99. And - and that's known and that's said by the people at the firm.
516 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:03:27pm

re: #507 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Clinton is a smart dude, Romney, a born into it dude.

To some extent, Romney was born into it. His Yale education and prep school was all paid for by his father. But he got no inheritance and no family wealth beyond the education.

517 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:04:25pm

re: #506 BryanS

Did you enjoy your freedom fries too?

518 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:04:54pm

re: #496 BryanS

So he's just like Clinton? He'll make a good president then :)

Not just no, but HELL NO; unlike Romney, who was born of privilege and never was in want of anything in his entire life, Clinton at least came from humble beginnings and worked his ass off. Clinton was and is driven, but he knew what it was like to be on the bottom of the social strata during his early life; Romney has never had that experience and, frankly, is poorer for it, because he just can't relate to anyone lower on the social ladder than himself.

519 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:05:15pm

re: #515 It's a cookbook!

THIS is what may stick. Why the fuck is he denying involvement with his business for a specific period of time? hmmm. You should be proud mo fo! Why not?

520 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:05:45pm

"Under Romney's plan for Massachusetts, the cost of registering firearms would have jumped from $25 to $75. He also called for increases in the cost of firearm identification cards, application fees for a license to carry firearms, and gun dealer fees."
[Link: www.boston.com...]

521 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:05:57pm

re: #518 TedStriker

Not just no, but HELL NO; unlike Romney, who was born of privilege and never was in want of anything in his entire life, Clinton at least came from humble beginnings and worked his ass off. Clinton was and is driven, but he knew what it was like to be on the bottom of the social strata during his early life; Romney has never had that experience and, frankly, is poorer for it, because he just can't relate to anyone lower on the social ladder than himself.

In Willard's world, there's two kinds of people: Folks like himself and The Help. And I don't know 'bout most lizards, but I know I sure as hell don't fall in the first category.

522 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:06:31pm

re: #514 Targetpractice

And looked absolutely stupid for doing so. I can't remember many voters who went to the polls going "I can't believe the guy likes the French!"

Those were strange times...not far removed from 'freedom fries', so yes, it had an overall effect to paint Kerry as an unpatriotic, effete, out of touch candidate. It was a small part of it, but together with swiftboating it worked.

523 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:07:06pm

re: #486 BryanS

A sole owner isn't the same thing as a person responsible for hiring/firing and making management decisions.

That's exactly what a sole owner is. They always have the prerogative to fire anybody they want. Sometimes it means buying out that person's contract, but the power is inherent in sole ownership.

A well run company would have a board, even if it is privately held.

And Mitt held the positions of CEO and Chairman of the Board well past the point he supposedly left Bain.

Romney would have vested all decision making power in this board.

Yet that's clearly not what happened. He retained multiple board seats, plus the position of President and Managing Partner. In addition, it's his signature on the SEC documents.

At the same time, during those few years of transition, the company was being prepared to be taken public.

No, you just flat out wrong again. Bain Capital is a Private LLC, it never went public as a tradable corporation. Are you just making shit up now and doing research confirmation via magic 8 ball?

That board would have been the management team investors were buying into. And apparently, the prospectus given to investors were told specifically of Romney's lack of involvement in managing the company.

Okay, were done. You clearly demonstrated that you have no earthly clue what you're talking about.

524 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:07:09pm

re: #518 TedStriker

Not just no, but HELL NO; unlike Romney, who was born of privilege and never was in want of anything in his entire life, Clinton at least came from humble beginnings and worked his ass off. Clinton was and is driven, but he knew what it was like to be on the bottom of the social strata during his early life; Romney has never had that experience and, frankly, is poorer for it, because he just can't relate to anyone lower on the social ladder than himself.

Yah, he just holds down those underlings and cuts off their hair.

525 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:07:18pm

re: #516 BryanS

To some extent, Romney was born into it. His Yale education and prep school was all paid for by his father. But he got no inheritance and no family wealth beyond the education.

Uh huh.

When the couple moved to Boston so Romney could study business and law at Harvard, his parents helped them buy a house.

526 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:07:33pm

Maybe we should go back to sports stars being our heroes instead of CEO's. They're done by their 40's.

What about term limits for CEO's? Oh, it's private. MS, Viacom, Newscorp... private. Ayep. Sho nuff.

527 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:07:37pm

re: #492 jaunte

Why would he even want the job, is still an open question.

To one up daddy.

528 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:08:06pm

re: #520 jaunte

"Under Romney's plan for Massachusetts, the cost of registering firearms would have jumped from $25 to $75. He also called for increases in the cost of firearm identification cards, application fees for a license to carry firearms, and gun dealer fees."
[Link: www.boston.com...]

The Globe is going for it. I'm sure they have lots of archives.

529 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:08:58pm

re: #518 TedStriker

Also, Clinton was a very smart politician. He could be thrown anything, and come out smelling of roses (or at least, not as battered as he could have been).

530 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:09:07pm

re: #520 jaunte

"Under Romney's plan for Massachusetts, the cost of registering firearms would have jumped from $25 to $75. He also called for increases in the cost of firearm identification cards, application fees for a license to carry firearms, and gun dealer fees."
[Link: www.boston.com...]

Why does Mitt Romney hate guns?

Fact check!

531 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:09:38pm

re: #528 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

The Globe is going for it. I'm sure they have lots of archives.

Christ, why can't I vote for that Romney?!?

532 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:09:56pm

re: #530 Gus

He doesn't hate guns, he just thinks $75 is like, oh, three cents.

533 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:11:04pm

re: #516 BryanS

re: #516 BryanS

I really don't get bothered by his family's wealth but he was not a self made man.

534 Gus  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:11:05pm

re: #532 jaunte

He doesn't hate guns, he just thinks $75 is like, oh, three cents.

Dad can I borrow 75 dollars?

535 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:11:54pm

re: #521 Targetpractice

In Willard's world, there's two kinds of people: Folks like himself and The Help. And I don't know 'bout most lizards, but I know I sure as hell don't fall in the first category.

I certainly don't begrudge Romney his upbringing or even the wealth that he currently has (except the fact that a lot of folks got fucked when he was making that money at BC), but he'll never understand what it's like to be an average American who has to make real hard choices and sacrifices every day.

Clinton, to a great extent, does; as slick and duplicitous as he could be while in office (and running for it), he seems to have genuine empathy for folks. The same cannot be said for Romney...

536 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:13:07pm

re: #518 TedStriker

Not just no, but HELL NO; unlike Romney, who was born of privilege and never was in want of anything in his entire life, Clinton at least came from humble beginnings and worked his ass off. Clinton was and is driven, but he knew what it was like to be on the bottom of the social strata during his early life; Romney has never had that experience and, frankly, is poorer for it, because he just can't relate to anyone lower on the social ladder than himself.

Romney doesn't talk much about his role in his church, but he's been known for his very generous and helpful character. The one story that gets out there is when one of his partners in Bain had a daughter go missing, Romney shut down Bain and dedicated the resources of the company to a search effort. The father credits Romney with saving his daughter's life who was found through Romney's efforts and was found to have overdosed and in dire need of medical care. Romney was an elder in his church where he presumably counseled many in his church.

So Romney may not have had humble beginnings, and I agree that means he will not have that experience to draw on. But I think the uncaring/out of touch meme is a bit off.

537 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:13:08pm

Anyone read the blurb today of the Barbara Bush interview for Parade? Well apparently George HW and Miss Barbara just love their William Jefferson Clinton. Really. It's quite awesome. (They formed their bond during the tsunami effort)

538 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:13:11pm
Youtube Video

SRV: Tin Pan Alley live

539 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:14:02pm

re: #535 TedStriker

Clinton has empathy as far as he can use it.
SPIT

540 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:14:10pm

re: #511 Gus

AMC

Dad? Can I borrow 20,000 dollars?

Why sure thing son.

That's swell dad.

Youtube Video
541 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:15:00pm

re: #535 TedStriker

I certainly don't begrudge Romney his upbringing or even the wealth that he currently has (except the fact that a lot of folks got fucked when he was making that money at BC), but he'll never understand what it's like to be an average American who has to make real hard choices and sacrifices every day.

Clinton, to a great extent, did; as slick and duplicitous as he could be while in office (and running for it), he seems to have genuine empathy for folks. The same cannot be said for Romney...

Don't you feel that Pres. Obama has that same empathy? I do.

542 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:16:11pm

Hey Charles,

I noticed that Youtube changed their start code for videos a while back, and I can't get embedded videos here to start where I want them to anymore.

543 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:16:18pm
544 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:16:25pm

re: #535 TedStriker

Romney had nothing to do with his upbringing or the wealth that he was born into. He has EVERYTHING to do with the man he has chosen to be. GET OVER his background! No, he is not perfect. I am not, nor are you.

545 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:16:46pm

re: #541 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Don't you feel that Pres. Obama has that same empathy? I do.

Yes, I do, because President Obama also came from somewhat humble means; I was still using Clinton as a reference because of BryanS' comment.

546 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:16:58pm

Romney Accuses President Of "Stooping" To Acting Like A Republican

threatens to go to court over appropriation of patented republican campaign techniques

547 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:18:04pm

re: #544 Dancing along the light of day

O RLY?

548 jaunte  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:20:44pm

Ross Douthat:

Romney and Co. are clearly concerned that if they let the media set the rules of engagement on controversial issues, they’ll look pliable and weak. But the alternative, in this case, was to let Donald Trump make Romney look weak. I don’t care how many small dollar donations Trump brought in: He got much, more out of this little scene than did the presumptive Republican nominee, and his conduct demonstrated exactly how much more he cares about his own celebrity than about the candidate he’s ostensibly assisting. By shrugging his shoulders at Trump’s antics and talking weakly about how much he needs to get to 50.1 percent, Romney essentially let a caricature of an alpha male kick sand in his face. Will it be forgotten by the general election? Well, sure, of course it probably will, just like all the other pseudo-controversies that bubble up this early. But should Romney supporters feel good about the incident, and what it says about their candidate’s ability to master events and personalities? Not by half.
[Link: douthat.blogs.nytimes.com...]

549 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:21:55pm

re: #547 TedStriker

Yes.
Really.

550 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:22:34pm

re: #523 goddamnedfrank

I was mixing up some info from factcheck.org about companies Bain was taking public during that time frame when, on those public offerings Romney was not part of the management team as part of the disclosures required for those publi offerings Bain was managing. You are correct Bain never went public.

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

Romney was not listed among the directors, executive officers and key employees in the registration statement filed with the SEC in preparation for DDi’s IPO offering (though five other Bain executives were). Nor was he named in subsequent proxy statements filed with the SEC as a member of DDi’s board of directors.

“When a private equity firm is involved with a company, typically the people who have the influence and information are people on the board,” Kaplan said. “To say that he has anything to do with that company at that time is wrong, in my experience.”

Part of a writeup during the primaries when Romney's opponents attacked Bain. That IPO was in April, 2000. So at that time, Bain did not consider Romney part of the management team.

551 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:23:44pm

Get ready for the yapping rabble.

U.N. Telecom Agency Releases Secret Treaty, Critics Unswayed

The International Telecommunications Union, the official United Nations telecommunications agency on Friday announced that it would soon be making public a document that could determine the future of the Internet, a document that had previously been restricted only to government officials and selected paying members.

“The world is changing, in large part thanks to the growth in telecommunications facilitated by the ITU, and we need to adapt to that changing world,” said Hamadoun Touré, the ITU’s Secretary General, in a statement.

Specifically, the ITU said that in “in the coming days,” it will publish on its website a document containing proposals from many of the 193 member nations that make up the United Nations on how their governments think that the international telecommunications regulations and standards reached in a 1988 treaty should be updated to address the rise of the Internet.

552 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:24:50pm

swiftboating

it ain't the attack that'll killya, it's your reaction

mit hev made a bad start

553 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:25:05pm

re: #550 BryanS

I was mixing up some info from factcheck.org about companies Bain was taking public during that time frame when, on those public offerings Romney was not part of the management team as part of the disclosures required for those publi offerings Bain was managing. You are correct Bain never went public.

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

Part of a writeup during the primaries when Romney's opponents attacked Bain. That IPO was in April, 2000. So at that time, Bain did not consider Romney part of the management team.

Who does the board answer to?

554 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:25:18pm

re: #539 Dancing along the light of day

Clinton has empathy as far as he can use it.
SPIT

I was cynical about President Clinton throughout most of his two terms (even though he was the first President I voted for, versus Bob Dole in '96); "Slick Willie" was a sobriquet he definitely earned throughout his political career, but at least he pretended like he genuinely gave a damn about lower- and middle-class folks, because he had been one himself in his early life. What he's done publicly since he left office has pleasantly surprised me (Katrina and tsunami relief, etc.).

To me, Romney just doesn't have empathy at all, period.

555 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:26:22pm

re: #551 Kragar

I'm one of those ready to yap and rabble over this. The last thing we need is the UN to manage internet policies. Whatever our failings, there are few countries as open and committed to free speech as the US is. And if this is going through the general council, that is dominated by tin pot dictators who would like nothing more than to wall off their public form the outside world.

556 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:26:53pm

re: #486 BryanS

the fact that he's having to explain it means he loses

the more he parses it, the more guilty he sounds

557 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:27:45pm

The difference between Bill Clinton and Mitt Romney is that the the former can at least convincingly fake empathy and the latter can't even manage that.

558 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:28:12pm

re: #555 BryanS

SOPA? PIPA? ACTA? That's pretty dubious recent record on freedom of speech.

559 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:29:07pm

re: #553 ozbloke

Who does the board answer to?

Youtube Video
560 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:29:14pm

re: #534 Gus

Romney doesn't strike me as being unsympathetic. He just seems to put his foot in his mouth a lot. I think that has more to do with his handlers than anything else. he has lived a life few people that he is trying to relate to have. So when he makes comments at a blue collar gathering about all his wives Cadillacs i think he meant it with good intentions, not to be an ass.

561 Kragar  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:30:21pm

re: #555 BryanS

I'm one of those ready to yap and rabble over this. The last thing we need is the UN to manage internet policies. Whatever our failings, there are few countries as open and committed to free speech as the US is. And if this is going through the general council, that is dominated by tin pot dictators who would like nothing more than to wall off their public form the outside world.

Given the international scope of the internet, multinational regulations are necessary to keep it secure and functional. Attempts to paint it as the UN controlling free speech are nothing but paranoid conspiracies.

562 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:30:21pm

At least we know Romney believes in privacy in the boardroom. His financial relationships are none of your business!

/

563 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:31:36pm

re: #553 ozbloke

Who does the board answer to?

The investor(s)/owner(s). Until 2001, that was Romney. But as the principle owner, he hired managers to run his company for him during his leave of absence until 2001 he sold his ownership interest in Bain to his board.

564 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:34:02pm

re: #562 Be Zorch, Daddio

At least we know Romney believes in privacy in the boardroom. His financial relationships are none of your business!

/

haha. The bottom line is he was liberal socially when he had to run against Ted Kennedy, and when he ran for Gov. of Massachusetts.

Now? He's either a fucking liar, or a liar to get where he wants to go. The first Mormon President. (peeps, this is a BIG DEAL)

565 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:34:27pm

re: #554 TedStriker

I was cynical about President Clinton throughout most of his two terms (even though he was the first President I voted for, versus Bob Dole in '96); "Slick Willie" was a sobriquet he definitely earned throughout his political career, but at least he pretended like he genuinely gave a damn about lower- and middle-class folks, because he had been one himself in his early life. What he's done publicly since he left office has pleasantly surprised me (Katrina and tsunami relief, etc.).

To me, Romney just doesn't have empathy at all, period.

There are a number of unhyped stories of tremendous empathy coming from Romney, but Romney doesn't push them. I cited one above--where he shut his company down and marshaled the entire resources of Bain to find a missing daughter of one of his board members.

566 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:35:10pm

Oh Cute: Accidental Entendre

567 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:36:20pm

re: #558 andres

SOPA? PIPA? ACTA? That's pretty dubious recent record on freedom of speech.

So far, they have not been enacted. In large part this is because of our free speech. Keeping those acts at bay will require ongoing vigilance, but at the UN we can be guaranteed that countries with vested interest in censorship and suppression of free speech will get their way.

568 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:36:34pm

re: #563 BryanS

The investor(s)/owner(s). Until 2001, that was Romney. But as the principle owner, he hired managers to run his company for him during his leave of absence until 2001 he sold his ownership interest in Bain to his board.

I will accept your point re: 2001 as I don't know the details.
So you would agree that until 2001, Mitt was in control?

569 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:38:42pm

Again, what makes anyone believe that the Olympic leave was different than Romney's leave to run for Senate in 1994? In 2002, regarding that previous absence Wolpow was quoted as saying “I reported directly to Mitt Romney . . . You can’t be CEO of Bain Capital and say, `I really don’t know what my guys were doing.'”

Since he told the Mass Ballot Commission that he fully intended to return to Bain, why would anybody be credulous enough to believe that he didn't remain as informed as he did before?

570 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:39:40pm

re: #568 ozbloke

I will accept your point re: 2001 as I don't know the details.
So you would agree that until 2001, Mitt was in control?

but the premise of the romney campaign still ends up being that somehow this company that he founded and ran for years suddenly went off the rails and started supporting bad actors right after he left day to day management

this is not a great defense

571 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:41:39pm

re: #570 engineer cat

but the premise of the romney campaign still ends up being that somehow this company that he founded and ran for years suddenly went off the rails and started supporting bad actors right after he left day to day management

this is not a great defense

But he's not even saying that. According to Mittens, Bain was still a great company.....he just wants an apology from anyone who says he had anything to do with it.....

(Wish I needed a / for this description, but it's what he is trying to say)

572 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:42:22pm

re: #568 ozbloke

I will accept your point re: 2001 as I don't know the details.
So you would agree that until 2001, Mitt was in control?

I would agree that until 2001, he had a hired management team to run his company. That is not an uncommon thing to do. Someone who inherits a company for instance may still want to own it, so they hire a team of professional managers. The IRS distinguishes between the two--there are various passive income rules that depending on how you file, having a hired manager of your company is one factor used to determine whether your investment activity is passive or not. In this case, Romney no longer actively managed his company.

573 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:42:55pm

re: #566 Kronocide

Interesting. that's a new spin. So Liberals 'church' is the state so we need separation of that.
Liberal politics is a religion and the Muslim religion is really just a political ideology.
This is getting very complex and deep. Need to start drinking or something.

574 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:43:08pm

re: #565 BryanS

There are a number of unhyped stories of tremendous empathy coming from Romney, but Romney doesn't push them. I cited one above--where he shut his company down and marshaled the entire resources of Bain to find a missing daughter of one of his board members.

I've not seen that, but if so, that's pretty damn awesome; however, what I'm getting at is the voters' perception of who he really is and what makes him tick. So far, he's failing miserably with people that aren't hardcore GOP partisans, those who are willing to accept a seemingly flawed candidate if it means that the party gets more political power.

In politics, especially in a high-stakes race for the presidency of the United States, voter perception is everything; like John Kerry before him, the perception that he's an out-of-touch elitist may very well sink him in the general, because many people don't get that "he's one of us" vibe from him, right or wrong.

For those of us that deal in hard, cold facts, what Romney is touting as his qualifications and his retconning of his own history is what's more damning.

575 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:43:43pm

re: #570 engineer cat

but the premise of the romney campaign still ends up being that somehow this company that he founded and ran for years suddenly went off the rails and started supporting bad actors right after he left day to day management

this is not a great defense

"Bad actors"? Offshoring isn'l illegal, it's just not politically popular.

576 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:43:43pm

re: #566 Kronocide

Oh Cute: Accidental Entendre

[Embedded content]

Isn't that cute?

:bleh:

577 andres  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:44:35pm

re: #570 engineer cat

but the premise of the romney campaign still ends up being that somehow this company that he founded and ran for years suddenly went off the rails and started supporting bad actors right after he left day to day management

this is not a great defense

If that were true, it speaks volume on his hiring capabilities.

578 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:44:39pm

re: #573 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

Interesting. that's a new spin. So Liberals 'church' is the state so we need separation of that.
Liberal politics is a religion and the Muslim religion is really just a political ideology.
This getting very complex and deep. Need to start drinking or something.

It's Inception for RWNJs...

579 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:44:41pm

re: #573 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I recommend Pabst or Jack Daniels.

580 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:46:20pm

re: #575 BryanS

"Bad actors"? Offshoring isn'l illegal, it's just not politically popular.

shipping american jobs overseas doesn't have to be illegal to be a bad thing

like i said, parsing the details ain't a gonna help when the whole theory of mitt's company leaves a bad odor with most americans

581 ozbloke  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:47:36pm

re: #572 BryanS

I would agree that until 2001, he had a hired management team to run his company. That is not an uncommon thing to do. Someone who inherits a company for instance may still want to own it, so they hire a team of professional managers. The IRS distinguishes between the two--there are various passive income rules that depending on how you file, having a hired manager of your company is one factor used to determine whether your investment activity is passive or not. In this case, Romney no longer actively managed his company.

So do you accept that Mitt was sole shareholder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of the company he founded but had no idea was the company was doing?

That's a bridge too far for me.

582 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:48:29pm

I don't even know why he's trying to distance himself from out-sourcing. According to Republicans, it's simply the natural response of fine, upstanding corporations, faced with the eeeeevil Democrats and their terrible "We won't let you employ 10 year old kids for 10 cents an hour" laws. What else are they supposed to do??????

Embrace your free-market ideals, Mitt!!!!

583 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:48:51pm

re: #579 Kronocide

Are you buyin'?

584 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:49:06pm

re: #581 ozbloke

So do you accept that Mitt was sole shareholder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of the company he founded but had no idea was the company was doing?

That's a bridge too far for me.

It's circular logic, nonsensical to anyone that doesn't have a vested interest in wanting Romney in the White House.

585 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:50:37pm

re: #579 Kronocide

I recommend Pabst or Jack Daniels.

Too high-tone...Thunderbird, MD 20/20, St. Ide's, or Boone's Farm might get one in the proper frame of mind.

/Thunderbird's the word...

586 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:52:26pm

re: #574 TedStriker

I've not seen that, but if so, that's pretty damn awesome; however, what I'm getting at is the voters' perception of who he really is and what makes him tick. So far, he's failing miserably with people that aren't GOP partisans.

In politics, especially in a high-stakes race for the presidency of the United States, voter perception is everything; like John Kerry before him, the perception that he's an out-of-touch elitist may very well sink him in the general, because many people don't get that "he's one of us" vibe from him, right or wrong.

For those of us that deal in hard, cold facts, what Romney is touting as his qualifications and his retconning of his own history is what's more damning.

You hear these stories coming from the individuals who Romney helped. There are a lot out there, but the media is not interested in them. I'm an atheist, so I think most religion is kooky--and the Morman faith just seems even more kooky than most to me. But Romney served as a Bishop for his church, counseled many members, used his personal wealth to help numerous people. All of this he refuses to talk about in part due to his belief that this is just part of leading a good life and bragging about it would be wrong. According to the father, that missing daughter would have died without Romney--she was found after a drug overdose and in need of medical care. And then there's the time that Mitt saved a drowning family (and their dog, afterward no doubt put on a car roof somewhere).

587 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:53:34pm

re: #586 BryanS

Yeah, too bad that Mitt isn't running for president...

588 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:54:29pm

re: #581 ozbloke

So do you accept that Mitt was sole shareholder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of the company he founded but had no idea was the company was doing?

That's a bridge too far for me.

He wasn't a board member of any kind. Why would Bain fail to list him as such when they did IPOs for companies they took public during that 1999-2001 time? Romney would have been the big name--his name not being there had to be for a reason.

589 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:54:49pm

re: #586 BryanS

too bad he didn't take as much care with the lives of the people in the companies bain was managing

590 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:56:26pm

re: #564 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

I don't think being the first Mormon President is any more of a big deal than the first Black President, or the first Catholic President. America has for the most part been about assimilating, with freedom as the goal for all.

591 sagehen  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:57:33pm

re: #565 BryanS

There are a number of unhyped stories of tremendous empathy coming from Romney, but Romney doesn't push them. I cited one above--where he shut his company down and marshaled the entire resources of Bain to find a missing daughter of one of his board members.

Of course he did.

Because, y'see, some people's daughters are more important than other people's daughters.

(so he's a good friend to his good friends? to someone who's worked for him for decades and is on church committees with him and so on? That doesn't change that fact that for people who aren't among his precious few who matter, he took away their health care and their pensions and left the federal government to clean up the mess.)

592 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 10:58:06pm

re: #585 TedStriker

Something I said, Giraffe?

Just curious; we are among friends here...

593 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:01:16pm

re: #590 Dancing along the light of day

I don't think being the first Mormon President is any more of a big deal than the first Black President, or the first Catholic President. America has for the most part been about assimilating, with freedom as the goal for all.

Yes. But to the Catholics, blacks, and Mormons, it matters much I imagine.

As I say often, I read Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven" a very, uh interesting study of Mormonism.

594 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:02:23pm

re: #589 engineer cat

too bad he didn't take as much care with the lives of the people in the companies bain was managing

I like the line from Romney's recent speech at the NAACP:

As you may have heard from my opponent, I am also a believer in the free-enterprise system. I believe it can bring change where so many well-meaning government programs have failed. I’ve never heard anyone look around an impoverished neighborhood and say, “You know, there’s too much free enterprise around here. Too many shops, too many jobs, too many people putting money in the bank.”

I happen to think he's right about how free enterprise benefits us all, even when a company fails. I'm pretty sure Romney believes this as he says. You may disagree that free enterprise serves this role, but if Romney is correct, he is helping those who worked in companies he managed. He succeeded more than he failed, but there will always be failures in private equity. Not all businesses can succeed or be saved.

595 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:03:38pm

re: #587 Be Zorch, Daddio

Yeah, too bad that Mitt isn't running for president...

Really...I don't mind Mitt not tooting his own horn for good deeds, but for many people, some of his actions throughout his life and career are the antithesis of a charitable person.

And we're back to public perception...

596 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:04:25pm
597 dragonath  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:06:17pm

re: #585 TedStriker

Something I find totally hilarious, is that in England, their version of a get-drunk-quick drink is made by a bunch of Benedictine monks. It's called Buckfast Tonic Wine.

598 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:06:38pm

Nighty night. As always, LGF, worth the time.

599 BryanS  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:07:20pm

I'm heading out...I'm sure I've racked up some downdings tonight, but I do like the debate :)

600 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:07:54pm

re: #599 BryanS

I'm heading out...I'm sure I've racked up some downdings tonight, but I do like the debate :)

No problems here...about to shower and hit the hay here shortly myself.

601 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:11:44pm

re: #597 Be Zorch, Daddio

Something I find totally hilarious, is that in England, their version of a get-drunk-quick drink is made by a bunch of Benedictine monks. It's called Buckfast Tonic Wine.

And I see that it carries the same sort of social problems as our get-drunk-fast-and-cheap adult beverages.

602 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:12:19pm

re: #592 TedStriker

Nope, just opinions. We ARE all friends here.

603 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:13:09pm

re: #602 Dancing along the light of day

Nope, just opinions. We ARE all friends here.

If you're cool, then I'm cool. Cool?

604 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:13:39pm

re: #594 BryanS

I like the line from Romney's recent speech at the NAACP:

I happen to think he's right about how free enterprise benefits us all, even when a company fails. I'm pretty sure Romney believes this as he says. You may disagree that free enterprise serves this role, but if Romney is correct, he is helping those who worked in companies he managed. He succeeded more than he failed, but there will always be failures in private equity. Not all businesses can succeed or be saved.

the first responsibility of a corporation, according to u.s. law, is to make a profit for its shareholders. a ceo can be taken to court if it can be reasonably suspected that they have failed to put this priority first

"free enterprise" can mean many things, not always a large corporation. if this were really "a nation of shopkeepers", that would be one kind of "free enterprise", and i could agree that it benefits us all

but large scale corporatism, multinational corporations, companies that make money by manipulating money, no, i will not agree that this kind of "free enterprise" benefits us all. it is not designed to benefit us all, and if a ceo ran a corporation to benefit the community that it operated in, to the neglect of corporate profits, he/she could be sued over it

it's all to easy to believe that some giant generalization that you can name "free enterprise" is beneficial to human society, but reality is infinitely more complicated than that

"free enterprise" may be the best system we have, but the way it is practiced these days it is too often a giant heartless machine that makes mincemeat out of the lives of millions of people

605 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:18:31pm

re: #603 TedStriker

As a cucumber!

606 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 11:38:13pm

re: #604 engineer cat

For capitalism to thrive it requires good government as a partner. There needs to be well maintained highways and roads, reliable affordable public utilities, a stable legal system, transparent banking system, clearly defined regulations, an educated workforce, etc..

Yet you always hear right wingers talk about how government just needs to shrink and get out of the way of capitalism. Test that logic with an extreme example: If less government is always good for capitalism than anarchy must be ideal.

But capitalism can't survive in anarchy. So the logic that less is more is wrong here.

Its not just about the size of government, its about how well government provides services to support capitalism.

607 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 12:58:02am

re: #606 Mich-again

Yet you always hear right wingers talk about how government just needs to shrink and get out of the way of capitalism. Test that logic with an extreme example: If less government is always good for capitalism than anarchy must be ideal.

We have a lot of folks who do not see the Free market as just a mechanism for balancing supply and demand and directing flows of capital. For them it is an ideology, one that has to be kept pure no matter what the human cost might be.

And we forget that there are just some things we leave to the Free Market, including defense, infrastructure and managing natural resources for the benefit of all.

And we have an odd notion that individuals or families with limited assets should be left to try and negotiate on equal terms with multi-billion-dollar multinational corporations for employment and health care.

608 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:02:09am

re: #594 BryanS

" I’ve never heard anyone look around an impoverished neighborhood and say, “You know, there’s too much free enterprise around here. Too many shops, too many jobs, too many people putting money in the bank.”

-If there are not enough police and firefighters to keep things safe, if the roads and infrastructure do not support a business community, and if the banks have gone under through financial manipulation and speculation, who is going to invest their money there?

609 gwangung  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:10:34am

re: #424 BryanS

Think of Bill Gates leaving Microsoft as the comparison. Gates is clearly still associated with MS, but he has nothing to do with anything the company decides from a management perspective anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gates's signature on things even after he stepped down from his management role of the company.

Sorry, but no.

You will see hi signature as chairman. That STILL entails certain responsibilities, which he does fulfills.

His signature does NOT appear on any management related forms.

This, of course, is easily searchable by the public.

610 gwangung  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:13:37am

re: #588 BryanS

He wasn't a board member of any kind. Why would Bain fail to list him as such when they did IPOs for companies they took public during that 1999-2001 time? Romney would have been the big name--his name not being there had to be for a reason.

Um, this simply isn't correct.

611 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:17:58am

Morning, all

612 ozbloke  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:20:53am

re: #611 researchok

Morning, all

Evening...

613 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:29:13am

re: #612 ozbloke

That too.

What's new down under?

614 ozbloke  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:45:24am

re: #613 researchok

That too.

What's new down under?

Well for one, we (Labor, left wing) introduced a tax on carbon on the 1st of July, and contrary to the opinions of our right wing opposition:

No towns were wiped of the map.
The mining industry didn't shut down.
And our sunday roasts (leg of lamb) don't cost $100.

Seriously, all claims made by our opposition, drumming up fear.

I am actually proud that our government has done this.

615 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:47:09am

re: #614 ozbloke

Politics DU is as much if not greater a blood sport than here.

How is the immigration/boat people debate coming along, for starters?

616 ozbloke  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:57:49am

re: #615 researchok

Politics DU is as much if not greater a blood sport than here.

How is the immigration/boat people debate coming along, for starters?

To be honest shitfull.

The right wing whips up fear about 'illegal immigrants', which they are not, as its not illegal to 'seek asylum'.

The population buys into 'we being overrun' cos we have always had a touch of racism here.

And the left are running scared and making poor choices.

Meanwhile people seeking asylum are locked up, and taking over 12 months on average to be processed.

It sucks.

617 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:04:14am

re: #616 ozbloke

I can't say I follow too closely, but from a distance it appears neither side really are really addressing the issues in a straightforward manner- it's more like a slash and burn contest.

I work with a guy from DU who told me the matter of assaults by the Lebanese culprits remains unresolved in a lot of ways (he believes that is the reason for the ongoing wide divisions- the elephant in the room, so to speak). I know the media at the time went into overdrive on both sides of the spin efforts.

Racism is an ugly beast for sure but not dealing with real issues is just as destructive.

No easy answers.

618 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:13:27am

re: #614 ozbloke

Well for one, we (Labor, left wing) introduced a tax on carbon on the 1st of July, and contrary to the opinions of our right wing opposition:

No towns were wiped of the map.
The mining industry didn't shut down.
And our sunday roasts (leg of lamb) don't cost $100.

Seriously, all claims made by our opposition, drumming up fear.

I am actually proud that our government has done this.

I heard there were even death threats from miners who worried that their industry would be ruined.

619 ozbloke  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:39:43am

re: #617 researchok

I work with a guy from DU who told me the matter of assaults by the Lebanese culprits remains unresolved in a lot of ways (he believes that is the reason for the ongoing wide divisions- the elephant in the room, so to speak).
No easy answers.

We have a habit here of racism, because of this ethnic groups gather and form communities, so you can get high percentages of particular ethnic groups in particular suburbs.

Local 'Australians' then fear, and tensions are created between them.

We did it with the Greeks, Italians, Yugoslavian etc...
We are good at doing it to the latest people who are seeking refuge.

620 ozbloke  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:41:28am

re: #618 Expand Your Ground

I heard there were even death threats from miners who worried that their industry would be ruined.

Thats what happens when people are whipped up be fear, sadly.

621 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:55:06am

re: #619 ozbloke

That's pretty much the story here as well.

I also believe there is a lot of confusion when it comes to immigrants integrating and assimilating.

Assimilation into a free society is a matter of choice. Some groups assimilate completely, other groups less so. In America, the Amish, Mennonites and Hasidic Jews are all examples of groups that choose lesser degrees of assimilation. That is their right- and in a free society, that is a sacred right.

While individuals may choose to assimilate as much or as little as they wish, integration is another matter. To integrate into a society is to agree to that society’s social compacts and the social contracts that particular society has enshrined. We all agree to stop at red lights, we agree to stand in line without shoving, pay our taxes, vote, etc. That is integration.

Not assimilating into a society does not mean that individuals or groups have not integrated fundamental values and laws into their value systems.

622 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 2:58:53am

Multi-culturalism is a great thing when it comes to music, food and lifestyle. But I do draw the line when it comes to things like women's rights.

623 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:01:46am

re: #622 Expand Your Ground

It takes a long time to change cultural values.

And it's a tough mission.

624 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:03:53am

Yes, the very notion that women should be allowed to pick and choose their marriage partner is not established in all cultures. And we are still grappling with the issue of homosexuality in our own culture, in other cultures, homosexuals are still severly persecuted.

625 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:05:27am

re: #624 Expand Your Ground

Yup

Cultural evolution is an ongoing process.

626 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:18:33am

Thing is, we need to be in a position to put a bit of positive pressure on other cultures to change. But regarding most of the Middle East, we are not in any such position. We are too dependent on their oil revenues, as is the case with Saudi Arabia, or we are totally at odds with their regimes, as is the case with Iran.

627 freetoken  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:58:00am
MP3 Audio
628 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 4:38:54am

I just posted an article from The Wall Street Journal about yahoo being hacked and close to half a million user names and passwords being stolen. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

629 freetoken  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 4:53:19am
MP3 Audio
630 Eventual Carrion  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:00:05am

re: #361 BryanS

Except running the Olympics was a full time job. He had much of his investments tied into Bain, and he wasn't going to go from CEO to cashing out in a short period of time. Winding down a lead person's involvement in the day to day is pretty common. Think of Bill Gates--it took a long time for him to wind down his involvement at the helm of that company. He still owns the lion's share of the company, but nobody would say he is responsible for management decisions of the company anymore.

Rupert Murdock defense.

631 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:06:52am

re: #361 BryanS

Except running the Olympics was a full time job. He had much of his investments tied into Bain, and he wasn't going to go from CEO to cashing out in a short period of time. Winding down a lead person's involvement in the day to day is pretty common. Think of Bill Gates--it took a long time for him to wind down his involvement at the helm of that company. He still owns the lion's share of the company, but nobody would say he is responsible for management decisions of the company anymore.

But he was stil pulling in 100K a year for doing nothing?

I am willing to accept that. I am not looking for any sort of smoking gun or felonious intent. I simply see this as a sign of someone who is successful as a businessman but not qualified to run the country.

632 researchok  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:19:00am

re: #627 freetoken

re: #629 freetoken

Great weekend combo.

633 freetoken  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:36:18am

Contraception averts maternal deaths

Contraceptive use likely prevents more than 272,000 maternal deaths from childbirth each year, U.S. researchers estimated.

Lead author Saifuddin Ahmed of The Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore estimated meeting the global need for contraception could reduce maternal deaths an additional 30 percent.

"Promotion of contraceptive use is an effective primary prevention strategy for reducing maternal mortality in developing countries," Ahmed said in a statement. "Our findings reinforce the need to accelerate access to contraception in countries with a low prevalence of contraceptive use where gains in maternal mortality prevention could be greatest -- vaccination prevents child mortality; contraception prevents maternal mortality."

[...]

The 1Flesh gang won't like this.

634 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:38:41am

re: #633 freetoken

Contraception averts maternal deaths

The 1Flesh gang won't like this.

They have no problem with that: "The Wages of Sin is Death." Says so right there in the Bible.

635 freetoken  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:45:20am

re: #634 Expand Your Ground

The 1Flesh group are the ones who list "oral contraceptives" between Plutonium and Mustard Gas on one of their graphics:

Image: carcinogen.png

636 freetoken  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:46:19am

Yes, really.

Oral contraceptives are akin to plutonium and mustard gas.

This is where American fundamentalism is headed.

637 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 5:52:52am

I understand the importance of personal responsibility and of teaching young people to be responsible for their bodies and their actions.

But to be truly responsible, they have to be fully informed of their range of choices and the consequences.

Problem is, a lot of people equate sex education with encouraging reckless sexual behavior. And those who think that sin should be immediately punished with severe consequences seem to have little trouble with the concept of teens getting pregnant or contracting STD's...they just see it as God's Divine Justice.

638 Sionainn  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:17:46am

Breaking Bad Season 5 premiere tomorrow! That is all.

639 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:33:26am

It's morning again.

Why does this keep happening?

You?

640 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:39:07am

re: #633 freetoken

Contraception averts maternal deaths

The 1Flesh gang won't like this.

But this is about other countries. Xenophobes don't care about those people. They don't count, they're not muricans.

/gah

641 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:46:33am

re: #640 ggt

But this is about other countries. Xenophobes don't care about those people. They don't count, they're not muricans.

/gah

Did someone also not run a similar ad from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation?

But there is no arguing against the 1Flesh, Abstinence Only and similar thinkers: Sex is sinful unless it is between married couples in missionary position in a darkened room. (And sometimes even then, if lust and not procreation is the reason for it)

The only thing that begins to keep us moral is fear of unwanted pregnancy and/or STD. Contraception removes that fear and promotes sin.

642 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:47:37am

New ad from Obama.


Obama for America TV Ad: "Firms"

Youtube Video
643 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:49:00am

re: #641 Expand Your Ground

Did someone also not run a similar ad from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation?

But there is no arguing against the 1Flesh, Abstinence Only and similar thinkers: Sex is sinful unless it is between married couples in missionary position in a darkened room. (And sometimes even then, if lust and not procreation is the reason for it)

The only thing that begins to keep us moral is fear of unwanted pregnancy and/or STD. Contraception removes that fear and promotes sin.

I DID, I DID, I DID!!

Melinda Gates has decided to make contraception her #1 priority. Because of her RC faith, she won't touch abortion and I'm OK with that because of her total commitment to the women of the world.

People need to get past the idea of women = sin. Men never enter the equation. I blame St. Augustine.

644 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:49:45am

re: #640 ggt

But this is about other countries. Xenophobes don't care about those people. They don't count, they're not muricans.

When your religion stops at the border, its not a religion.

645 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:50:22am

re: #644 Mich-again

When your religion stops at the border, its not a religion.

yup

646 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:52:11am

re: #643 ggt

I DID, I DID, I DID!!

Melinda Gates has decided to make contraception her #1 priority. Because of her RC faith, she won't touch abortion and I'm OK with that because of her total commitment to the women of the world.

her argument being that contraception can help prevent abortions. But that is not an argument that can be used against those who find sex itself sinful.

647 darthstar  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:57:11am

re: #644 Mich-again

When your religion stops at the border, its not a religion.

Sorry about that...I drew a line of salt along the border to keep out snails
.

648 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 7:59:01am

re: #646 Expand Your Ground

her argument being that contraception can help prevent abortions. But that is not an argument that can be used against those who find sex itself sinful.

I agree that abortion wouldn't be as much as an issue if contraception use was widespread. I think the numbers seeking abortion would be so low that it wouldn't reach the radar for national attention. Also, they would be more "sympathetic" cases (rape & incest victims -cancer patients etc)

The eternal moral judges of our society will never be convinced. These people need major therapy. The project their own insecurities and sexual "perversions" onto the rest of the world in order not to have to look at themselves.

They assume everyone has the same "perversion" they do and aren't as good as controlling it. They suffer to control it, resent that other's don't and find it outrageous that society is moving towards legalizing and accepting such "perversions." It makes all their suffering and subsequent feelings of moral superiority null.

The homosexual republican who sees his "perversion" as a burden, marries has children and occasionally "slips-up" goes off the wagon and is caught with a rent boy.

He likens his behavior to an alcoholic who has gone on a binge.

Or like the cop in Les Mis --at the end he says "I have always lived my life by the rules" --then he realizes has has been playing by the wrong rules.

649 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:31:16am

new obama ad

Youtube Video
650 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:33:57am

re: #649 SpaceJesus

new obama ad

[Embedded content]

Amazing.

651 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:34:50am

re: #649 SpaceJesus

Amory beat you at #642.

Mitt can wiggle and explain all about his role in BC in those years. But it was his choice. He chose to leave suddenly to take on a new position, he chose to continue to receive a salary and be identified with the company.

And all this time I thought that responsibility was a cardinal conservative virtue.

652 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:36:00am

Americans' Egyptian kidnapper vows to take more

The Egyptian Bedouin who abducted two Boston natives and their guide on Friday vowed he would take more hostages of different nationalities if police do not release his uncle from prison.

Speaking to The Associated Press by telephone, Jirmy Abu-Masuh of the Tarbeen tribe in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, said the captives would remain safe, but that more would be abducted if his uncle is not released.

653 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:36:38am

re: #649 SpaceJesus

new obama ad

[Embedded content]

WOW!

654 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:37:18am

re: #653 ggt


this is the only ad they need

655 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:39:46am

In Egypt's Sinai desert, Islamic militants gaining new foothold

Vast areas of Egypt’s Sinai desert have descended into lawlessness in recent months, providing fertile ground for small cells of extremist militants that have emerged from the shadows and quietly established training camps near the Israeli border, according to Bedouin elders and security experts.
...
Retired Egyptian Gen. Sameh Saif el-Yazl, who heads a center for political and strategic studies in Cairo, said the status quo in the Sinai is untenable. Hard-line fighters in the Sinai include men who fought in Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent years, he said. They have joined forces with Islamists released recently from prison.

“They want to impose Islamic law over the state,” said Yazl, whose views on security matters are widely seen as reflective of those of the country’s military chiefs. “The government must impose its control and rule over Sinai. Right now the law is not respected.”

A police official based in the Sinai city of Arish said in an interview that respect was the least of his worries. Men like him are being hunted.

656 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:41:01am

re: #654 SpaceJesus

this is the only ad they need

I hope the Independents will think so too. There are so many hard-core knee-jerk Marxest haters that I really worry there will be a "fear of socialism" vote against him.

Luckily most of the young people haven't been indoctrinated to the Cold War rhetoric.

WE just need to make sure they vote this time around. We need a large turn-out again.

657 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:41:13am

re: #651 Expand Your Ground

Amory beat you at #642.

Mitt can wiggle and explain all about his role in BC in those years. But it was his choice. He chose to leave suddenly to take on a new position, he chose to continue to receive a salary and be identified with the company.

And all this time I thought that responsibility was a cardinal conservative virtue.

And then he SANG. epic

658 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:42:49am

re: #445 darthstar

You pay for PDFs?

Yes, of course I do. The PDF is from Catalyst Game Labs, the company that produces Battletech material.

Did you think it was some sort of illegal-copy PDF?

659 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:43:19am

re: #649 SpaceJesus

That creepy rendition of America the Beautiful sung by Mitt is going to give people nightmares.

660 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:45:56am

re: #659 Mich-again

That creepy rendition of America the Beautiful sung by Mitt is going to give people nightmares.

Why do I expect to see that old many from Wild Kingdom tauting Mutual of Omaha every time I see or hear Mitt?

661 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:46:00am

re: #656 ggt

I hope the Independents will think so too. There are so many hard-core knee-jerk Marxest haters that I really worry there will be a "fear of socialism" vote against him.

This is not meant to appeal to people who "hate capitalism", ones who "promote class warfare" or ones who are simply "jealous of a successful businessman".

The target audiences are people who are disillusioned with the state of modern American capitalism because they have found their jobs outsourced by people like Mitt, are struggling to meet mortgage payments, cover health.care costs and put their children through school.

662 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:47:03am

re: #661 Expand Your Ground

This is not meant to appeal to people who "hate capitalism", ones who "promote class warfare" or ones who are simply "jealous of a successful businessman".

The target audiences are people who are disillusioned with the state of modern American capitalism because they have found their jobs outsourced by people like Mitt, are struggling to meet mortgage payments, cover health.care costs and put their children through school.

And the fat cats who caused the banking crisis (among others) are not in jail, while kids who had a joint or a bag of weed are.

663 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:48:10am

Have a great day all!

664 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:51:44am

The next move for Obama is to make it clear to everyone, but especially women, gays and minorities, that the GOP intends to turn back the clock on social progress in this country by decades and how much Mitt has come to approve of it since becoming a candidate for president.

665 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:51:59am

re: #660 ggt

Why do I expect to see that old many from Wild Kingdom tauting Mutual of Omaha every time I see or hear Mitt?

Well there was Marlin Perkins who stood by and did all the talking and his assistant Jim who did anything that was remotely dangerous or involved any effort.

666 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 8:56:58am

re: #661 Expand Your Ground

This is not meant to appeal to people who "hate capitalism", ones who "promote class warfare" or ones who are simply "jealous of a successful businessman".

The target audiences are people who are disillusioned with the state of modern American capitalism because they have found their jobs outsourced by people like Mitt, are struggling to meet mortgage payments, cover health.care costs and put their children through school.

And what was Bain supposed to do? It needs to generate profits and American workers cost too much to produce the needed profit margin while selling at prices Americans were willing to pay. Neither Mitt Romney nor Bain Capital owned any legal loyalty to "the American Worker", but they did own duties to their investors and outsourcing was how they fulfilled those roles.

667 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:01:40am

re: #661 Expand Your Ground

This is not meant to appeal to people who "hate capitalism", ones who "promote class warfare" or ones who are simply "jealous of a successful businessman".

The target audiences are people who are disillusioned with the state of modern American capitalism because they have found their jobs outsourced by people like Mitt, are struggling to meet mortgage payments, cover health.care costs and put their children through school.

While the financial geniuses and corporations were slowly and methodically relocating production facilities and jobs out of America and into the developing world, the unsophisticated, uneducated masses stood by and wondered, hmm, if they move all the jobs overseas, then how will the people still here have any money to buy all those products they want to import here? Now that the wages are climbing in those regions and their infrastructure is limiting growth, all those outsourced operations make less and less business sense. The whole wave of outsourcing and importing was a shortsighted temporary profit "fix" that was never going to be a long-term solution.

668 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:07:39am

I have to go. BBL

669 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:09:56am

re: #667 Mich-again

The whole wave of outsourcing and importing was a shortsighted temporary profit "fix" that was never going to be a long-term solution.

We created an economic system in which is was more profitable to break companies up and sell/relocate them than to restructure them to make them more profitable here at home.

That works only as long as there are firms to break up and sell...

And the only jobs that remain are the ones selling those cheap imported goods at the Wal-mart, most of which pay minimum wage with no benefits and almost no job security.

670 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:12:43am

All the talk of figs yesterday mad me go out and buy some fresh fig cookies from the Italian bakery. Yum.

671 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:17:36am

re: #666 Dark_Falcon

Labor rates are only part of that outsourcing equation. Other reasons include lax environmental regulations, non-existent worker safety standards, and lucrative subsidies from foreign governments to build operations there.

But what is becoming obvious now is that with the growth in the developing markets, their infrastructures can not handle the traffic and energy needs, and all those poor downtrodden masses are starting to push back a bit and demand higher wages and more freedom. The business model is losing the luster.

So now where do the bottom feeding capitalists go to next? Mexico is too expensive and dangerous, China is too expensive, India can't keep their electrical grid working for a full day.

They may just find that insourcing production back to the USA makes the most sense.

672 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:21:45am

re: #671 Mich-again

Labor rates are only part of that outsourcing equation. Other reasons include lax environmental regulations, non-existent worker safety standards, and lucrative subsidies from foreign governments to build operations there.

I have no trouble with other nations competing with the USA on wages. That is something that should incentivize us to be more productive and keep ahead of the game.

But when we let them undercut us on worker and environmental safety standards, we are not only shooting ourselves in the foot, but we are not making things better for the poor people who have to put up with lax standards if they want a job.

I would have no problem with import tarrifs that reflect the difference in the cost of a product if it is produced at our standards of worker and environmental protection. It would also encourage other nations to bring themselves up to standard if they want to trade with us freely.

673 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:31:10am

A quick glance at the referrers page reveals once again how completely irrelevant this site is, so irrelevant in fact that it "only" made number five on the RightWingNew's top fifty political blogs list by Alexa ranking.

[Link: www.rightwingnews.com...]

"Give it up Charles, no one listens to your demented socialist rantings, your irrelevant do you hear, completely irrelevant! Those Alexa numbers mean nothing, nothing, do you hear!?!" *hehhahhehhahhehhah

*monomaniacal Rodan style delusional stalker cackling

;)

674 labman57  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:35:23am

This what happens when you continually hit your "reset button". Mitt v.2 tends to forget the (on the record) statements previously made by Mitt v.1

675 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:36:10am

re: #654 SpaceJesus

this is the only ad they need

And that's just for the singing alone. I don't think I'd ever sing in public if that's all I had. (Do you suppose he doesn't realize? Could this be the Dunning-Kruger effect as applied to music?)

For what it's worth, his French is much the same. He gets the words right, but the sounds are pretty awful.

676 allegro  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:41:45am

re: #670 Amory Blaine

All the talk of figs yesterday mad me go out and buy some fresh fig cookies from the Italian bakery. Yum.

I added figs and peanut butter to my grocery list this morning, same reason.

Who sez LFG is irrelevant!

677 dragonath  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:42:34am

re: #666 Dark_Falcon

So... I guess this is why outsourcing stories don't faze you. It's a necessary step in insuring there is a profit to the shareholders.

Neither Mitt Romney nor Bain Capital owned any legal loyalty to "the American Worker"

Sounds like a really great qualification to be president. "Hey, I'm Mitt Romney and I'm technically not disposed to your welfare."

678 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:46:06am

re: #677 Be Zorch, Daddio

So... I guess this is why outsourcing stories don't faze you. It's a necessary step in insuring there is a profit to the shareholders.

Sounds like a really great qualification to be president. "Hey, I'm Mitt Romney and I'm technically not disposed to your welfare."

He already said that he doesn't care about poor people.

679 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:54:59am

re: #678 Iwouldprefernotto

He already said that he doesn't care about poor people.

To be fair, in context it was pretty clear that what he meant by that was that he thought poor people were adequately protected by the current social safety net, not that he didn't personally care what happened to them. Of course, even under this interpretation the statement reveals how out of touch he is - not to mention how gaffe-prone.

680 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:56:28am

Charles, frontpage please.

From twitter. (I still can't get that up right....)

@AdamSerwer:

Obama...he's a Democrat right? Because I didn't know they threw punches like this.

And then he linked to the latest Obama commercial on Youtube.


Youtube Video


Ouch Mitt, that's got to sting a bit!!


Ps.
It's my birthday today!! And this clip is a great present!

681 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:01:13am

re: #679 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

To be fair, in context it was pretty clear that what he meant by that was that he thought poor people were adequately protected by the current social safety net, not that he didn't personally care what happened to them. Of course, even under this interpretation the statement reveals how out of touch he is - not to mention how gaffe-prone.

Poorly phrased, "I am concedrned less about the very poor than I am..." might have worked better.

I will say again, I am not looking for a smoking gun or felonious intent. I simply see this as an indication of how he would run the country, and it is a poor indicator.

682 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:09:09am

re: #681 Expand Your Ground

Poorly phrased, "I am concedrned less about the very poor than I am..." might have worked better.

I will say again, I am not looking for a smoking gun or felonious intent. I simply see this as an indication of how he would run the country, and it is a poor indicator.

Agreed. It just bugs me to see so much of our political discourse driven by poor phrasing and twisted interpretations ("I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it"; "I took the initiative in creating the Internet") rather than actual substance.

683 Gus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:14:18am

re: #680 William of Orange

Charles, frontpage please.

From twitter. (I still can't get that up right...)

@AdamSerwer:

And then he linked to the latest Obama commercial on Youtube.

[Embedded content]


Ouch Mitt, that's got to sting a bit!!
Ps.
It's my birthday today!! And this clip is a great present!

Outrage!

Happy birthday.

684 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:16:24am

re: #682 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Agreed. It just bugs me to see so much of our political discourse driven by poor phrasing and twisted interpretations ("I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it"; "I took the initiative in creating the Internet") rather than actual substance.

Because politics is all about perception. It did backfire abainst the GOP in 2008. A negative smear campaign worked very well against Kerry in 2004 because nobody really liked him. Things stuck.

So they tried it again, trying to paint Obama as everything from an elitist snob to an anarchist and Anti-Christ.

But with Obama, aside from the frothing racists who needed no convincing otherwise, lots of people liked him and the negative stuff not only did not stick, it bounced clean back.

But we are not dealing with people who learn from mistakes, they just double down and dig in deeper.

685 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:17:28am

re: #680 William of Orange

Charles, frontpage please.

From twitter. (I still can't get that up right...)

@AdamSerwer:

And then he linked to the latest Obama commercial on Youtube.

[Embedded content]



Ouch Mitt, that's got to sting a bit!!
Ps.
It's my birthday today!! And this clip is a great present!

Happy Birthday W of O!

686 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:19:06am

Tre: #685 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Happy Birthday W of O!

Thank you very kindly!

And Gus too.

687 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:20:49am
688 Gus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:21:48am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

[Embedded content]

Well now. This changes everything. 48 hour rule over.

689 Gus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:22:56am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

[Embedded content]

Here's the page.

[Link: www.linkedin.com...]

690 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:23:23am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

This is your classic bullying behavior. When they are called out on it, they try to present themselves as some sort of victims.

691 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:25:20am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

[Embedded content]

"Zoo keeper", eh? Is he comparing the people he protects and serves to wild animals? Or is this some kind of innocuous police argot I'm unfamiliar with?

692 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:27:08am

re: #691 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

"Zoo keeper", eh? Is he comparing the people he protects and serves to wild animals? Or is this some kind of innocuous police argot I'm unfamiliar with?

I assume this is his "sense of humor". He will insist that he was only joking when he threatened Michelle, I assume because his friends are the kind of people who find such things funny...

693 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:27:45am

re: #691 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

"Zoo keeper", eh? Is he comparing the people he protects and serves to wild animals? Or is this some kind of innocuous police argot I'm unfamiliar with?

Welcome hatchling.

I have my idea of what he means. And it doesn't seem to have a lot of serve and protect to it.

694 Mattand  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:35:53am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

[Embedded content]

Called it.

695 Mattand  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:40:47am

re: #691 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

"Zoo keeper", eh? Is he comparing the people he protects and serves to wild animals? Or is this some kind of innocuous police argot I'm unfamiliar with?

Police argot, yes. Innocuous? Not by a mile.

696 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:44:14am

Yunno, he coulda kept these jokes to the water cooler, his local bar and his friends, but when you spread these kinds of "jokes" in the interwebs, they can come back and kick you in the teeth.

697 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:49:03am

re: #689 Gus

Here's the page.

[Link: www.linkedin.com...]

Take plenty of screenshots before it's taken down!

698 Mattand  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:51:40am

re: #696 Expand Your Ground

Yunno, he coulda kept these jokes to the water cooler, his local bar and his friends, but when you spread these kinds of "jokes" in the interwebs, they can come back and kick you in the teeth.

In a weird way, I'm kind of glad he did. He's a cop who's racist, TeaBagger and armed and also helps guard the President and his family.

This was either a cry for help, or someone subconsciously expressing a plan they wanted to put in motion.

699 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:53:28am

re: #687 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

[Embedded content]

What a dipshit...

700 Mattand  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:54:44am

re: #680 William of Orange

Happy Birthday! What did you get me?

701 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:54:51am

re: #698 Mattand

This was either a cry for help, or someone subconsciously expressing a plan they wanted to put in motion.

or a person with a very twisted idea of what "freedom of speech" means

702 Gus  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 10:59:31am

re: #697 William of Orange

Take plenty of screenshots before it's taken down!

Here's one.

Image: Linkedin-Page-for-FLOTUS-Th.jpg

703 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 11:07:58am

re: #691 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

"Zoo keeper", eh? Is he comparing the people he protects and serves to wild animals? Or is this some kind of innocuous police argot I'm unfamiliar with?

I would think that he is also and perhaps mainly referring to his co-workers actually since the D.C. metropolitan police has the highest percentage of blacks as officers of any police department in the entire country.

Sure...uhh... maybe he simply thinks of D.C.'s black residents as animals while holding his black co-workers very high in his personal esteem...or something...bwahahahaha! ;)

704 Mattand  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 11:19:13am

re: #701 Expand Your Ground

or a person with a very twisted idea of what "freedom of speech" means

I'd be curious as to what the DC police guidelines are about this kind of behavior. Unlike most police forces, they deal with things like the federal government and foreign dignitaries every day.

705 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 1:27:59pm

re: #565 BryanS

There are a number of unhyped stories of tremendous empathy coming from Romney

What sagehen said. Of course he's capable of "showing empathy" to members of his own tribe, his own class, his own kind. (the very thing wingnuts falsely accuse Obama of, "caring only about his own kind", only in that case, they mean blacks).

Come back when you have a story of Romney giving a shit about someone who isn't a) rich, or b) a member of his inner circle

706 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 3:33:05pm

re: #700 Mattand

Happy Birthday! What did you get me?

A kudo + !! :)

707 Buck  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:24:03pm

re: #673 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

A quick glance at the referrers page reveals once again how completely irrelevant this site is, so irrelevant in fact that it "only" made number five on the RightWingNew's top fifty political blogs list by Alexa ranking.

[Link: www.rightwingnews.com...]

"Give it up Charles, no one listens to your demented socialist rantings, your irrelevant do you hear, completely irrelevant! Those Alexa numbers mean nothing, nothing, do you hear!?!" *hehhahhehhahhehhah

*monomaniacal Rodan style delusional stalker cackling

;)

The link you provide does not have a date on it. It does say the author wrote an article back in January, and then links to that article.

The URL of that (back in January article) has archives/week_2003_01_19.PHP in it. I don't think it is a stretch to think that for the author "last January" was in 2003. So that list was of RightWingNew's top fifty political blogs in 2003.

708 Buck  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:34:37pm

re: #705 Interesting Times

Come back when you have a story of Romney giving a shit about someone who isn't a) rich, or b) a member of his inner circle

You don't know anything about Romney, and that might be his fault for not bragging enough.
However... if you don't know that Romney gives a semi truckload of money in charity every year that is your fault.

709 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 14, 2012 9:55:35pm

Lulz:

Part of the reason for the high rate of giving is Romney’s contributions to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon church. According to the church, members are expected to tithe 10 percent of their income. In Romney’s case, in 2010 he gave $1.5 million, closer to 7 percent of his adjusted gross income. In 2011, he gave $2.6 million, or 12.4 percent of his income.
...
But Romney and his wife also gave a considerable amount of money...to other charities, mainly through the Tyler Charitable Foundation, apparently named for a street Romney and his wife lived on in Belmont, Mass. In 2010, the foundation had more than $10 million in assets.

In 2010, the largest beneficiaries of the Tyler Charitable Foundation included the Mormon Church ($145,000), the Friends of George W. Bush Library ($100,000), and the Center for Treatment of Pediatric MS ($75,000). However, the foundation also made contributions to organizations including the US Equestrian Team Foundation ($10,000), Harvard Business School ($10,000), and Homes for Our Troops ($20,000).

In past years, some of Romney’s contributions have gone to conservative groups such as the Heritage Foundation, the Becket Fund (for religious rights legal aid), and the Federalist Society, which seeks reform of the current legal system. In 2007, he wrote a check to Citizens for Limited Taxation, a Marblehead, Mass., organization that strives to limit taxes and the size of government.

Pretty much confirms what I said above. Now, is it possible he made significant charitable contributions to groups that aren't affiliated with his church or conservative think thanks? Perhaps...but since he won't release the rest of his tax returns, I guess we'll never know :)

710 Buck  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 2:31:13pm

What difference does it make, you will only discount the millions he gives to charity as "affiliated with his church or conservative think thanks" because after all most sincere people give money to organizations that they don't agree with. That is how you seem to rate sincerity.

And for you giving to the church doesn't count. There is no way that could count towards "giving a shit about someone who isn't a) rich, or b) a member of his inner circle".

And the Foundation they give to? The Tyler Charitable Foundation? You can nit pick, but as long as you just minimize the charity work they do, it can also be more minimizing.

Although it is a shit load of money, and it effects thousands of people (yes, even some poor people) you will just dismiss it anyway.

Doesn't mean that it doesn't count in real life, just in your mind.


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