The Disingenuous Attack on Sandy Disaster Response

Rudy’s misguided attacks on the Obama Administration storm response
Opinion • Views: 33,555

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s taken the lead on criticizing the Obama Administration’s disaster response following Hurricane Sandy. He’s actually compared the disaster response from Sandy to the response by the Bush Administration to Hurricane Katrina and found the Bush Administration response to be better.

It’s time for a fact check.

That’s the same Rudy Giuliani who agreed with Bloomberg to hold the NYC marathon. “Mayor Bloomberg made the right decision to go forward with the marathon” - Rudy Giuliani on Fox News.

That’s the same response that led to so many on Staten Island raising holy hell, the New York Post to lambaste Bloomberg, and for Bloomberg to reverse course less than 48 hours before the marathon and cancelled it. Of course, even after the marathon was cancelled, not all of the equipment, including generators, was made available for disaster response. Some of it was still sitting in place in Central Park and elsewhere, even as Mayor Bloomberg now warns those without power that the cold could end up being a killer.

Rudy, the city’s response to the disaster is decidedly mixed.

Bloomberg could very well have his Mayor Nagin memorial motor pool moment courtesy of his inane decision to run the marathon and subsequent cancellation with less than 48 hours notice all while equipment and material from the marathon wasn’t brought to bear to help relieve suffering of those in need.

However, the Sanitation Department has been pulling its weight and clearing debris throughout the City. The NYPD and FDNY have been doing tremendous work in keeping the city safe - crime is actually down 30% despite scattered reports of looting.

The MTA has done a phenomenal job in getting service restarted, despite catastrophic and unprecedented damage to the subway system.

Bloomberg’s performance leaves much to be desired. Staten Island and the outer boroughs - Rockaways, Southern Brooklyn and Queens, are a mess and it will take months and years to bring those areas back to normal (if ever - and one can see how damage from major storms rewrote the geography and demographics of places like Homestead FL and towns up and down the Gulf Coast).

Disaster response means getting all the various parts to speak to each other and work together with a common goal. That’s working in spots. But when Con Ed can’t get to its utilities to restring lines for power because of debris but the Sanitation Department can’t get into areas because of energized downed power lines, you begin to understand the conundrum of restoring power in a natural disaster.

Still, despite this, the MTA got the Staten Island railway up and running and buses are again moving through the borough. That’s a whole lot better than it was, but the job’s nowhere near done or complete.

Even with the heroic efforts of the NYPD, FDNY, and Sanitation Departments, there’s not enough of a local, state and federal presence in those areas. It’s coming, but not fast enough, and the damage is hard to comprehend.

Trying to compare Katrina to Sandy is apples to oranges. Population densities are a completely different tale. While Katrina’s damage was on a scale never before seen in the US, the Gulf Coast has a population density of 178 people per square mile. New Jersey’s got 1,189 inhabitants per square mile. New York City? 26,403 people per square mile. By comparison, the current population density of New Orleans is a fraction of that with 1,965 per square mile. It needs a completely different scale of response.

Still, it’s kinda tough to hear GOPers complain about the pace of FEMA assistance when they have been busy complaining and calling for FEMA to be disbanded/privatized, etc. Or, disaster response should be devolved to the state level, so that when a disaster strikes, the very government that’s supposed to help can’t because their resources were wiped out by the disaster they’re supposed to address. The same people who would seek to eliminate FEMA are the same ones complaining they aren’t there fast enough and aren’t taking steps to make sure it’s funded in a way that it could respond with sufficient numbers to assist those in need.

FEMA arrived on Staten Island within 4 days of the storm. Is that fast enough? Hardly. Could they have gotten there faster? Possibly, until you realize that if they pre-positioned in the hardest hit areas, they would have suffered the same fate as so many of the very residents they’re supposed to try and assist. That means watching entire shorelines vanish. Homes moved off their foundations. Entire neighborhoods impassible with debris and damage and downed lines.

Blaming FEMA is the easy way out. And one doesn’t have to see a FEMA agent on the ground to be able to get FEMA assistance either. In most cases, getting a phone call in to the agency is sufficient to get the response system started - 1-800-621-FEMA. Even the response trucks and door-to-door response is geared to getting people to call in to FEMA to deal with their disaster needs.

It’s not perfect, and seeing people with their FEMA uniforms/jackets is a comforting thought to those who have seen everything turned upside down, and that’s where having more boots on the ground can help.

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608 comments
1 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 7:40:22am
The same people who would seek to eliminate FEMA are the same ones complaining they aren’t there fast enough and aren’t taking steps to make sure it’s funded in a way that it could respond with sufficient numbers to assist those in need.

We totally need Congress to figure out how to offset these costs before putting one boot on the ground. Don't worry, Congress will act swiftly and in our best interests...

2 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:22:29am

The Republican are so predictable, who didn't expect this.

Rudy’s misguided attacks on the Obama Administration storm response

3 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:22:35am

Republicans? Disingenuous? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:23:21am

Part of the problem seems to be incorrect expectations of what FEMA and the Red Cross could and would do. Could be the operative word, here.

They need to drive through the streets just like everyone else, which requires streets free of debris and capable of being driven on. They need gas just like everyone else. Supplies have to get across distances and then there needs to be an organized way to distribute them.

The Red Cross has been telling people for YEARS that they need to plan on being on their own for a few days after any disaster, and that means having emergency supplies in place and ready. Yes, there is nothing you can do to prepare for having your entire house destroyed, other than evacuating, but everyone else can have canned goods, batteries, and water ready for an emergency, which would free up emergency help for those who really were left without anything.

5 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:26:08am

Hey, this is of a piece with Romney's campaign strategy. Embassy surrounded by violent protests? Attack the embassy staff for something they tweeted hours earlier while they are still surrounded by rioting crowds. Storm hits the east Coast? Attack the people working 20-hour days to get things up and running while they're still hip-deep in the cleanup.

Romney: a chicken in every pot and a knife in every back.

6 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:28:08am

re: #4 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Part of the problem seems to be incorrect expectations of what FEMA and the Red Cross could and would do. Could be the operative word, here.

They need to drive through the streets just like everyone else, which requires streets free of debris and capable of being drive on. They need gas just like everyone else. Supplies have to get across distances and then there needs to be an organized way to distribute them.

The Red Cross has been telling people for YEARS that they need to plan on being on their own for a few days after any disaster, and that means having emergency supplies in place and ready. Yes, there is nothing you can do to prepare for having your entire house destroyed, other than evacuating, but everyone else can have canned goods, batteries, and water ready for an emergency, which would free up emergency help for those who really were left without anything.

Another factor of disaster preparation that is never mentioned:

Clean up, throw out or give away all the unnecessary, unneeded, unwanted USELESS SHIT that has accumulated in your house over the years. Because if G-D forbid you do get storm damage, you want to be able to inventory your belongings without having to dig through a huge amount of what was crap to begin with.

7 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:28:37am

GOP Sound Bite Manual:

• Noun, verb, Benghazi.
• Noun, verb, Sandy.

8 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:29:54am

The government response to the storm has been great. Bloomberg's fuckup on the marathon nonwithstanding, I'm not even inclined to dig him that hard. One thing that the NYC government is doing really well is organizing volunteers and getting them out to needed sites. I've been volunteering for days and every time there's been real work to do, it's been well-organized, and the only problem has been an overflow of volunteers.

The federal government has been flying in generators from as far away as California. National Guard units are helping out. The clear collaboration between Christie and Obama has been very good to see. The federal government has already gotten more than a million meals shipped into the area, and more is coming every day. And above all, the evacuation orders were given clearly, sensibly, and in a timely fashion.

This is also not new. FEMA operates better under Democratic administrations than under GOP ones, for rather obvious reasons.

Oh, and people like Romney who think that sending disaster preparedness back to the states-- why do they think that a state that just got hammered by a hurricane is in a good position for self-repair? I don't get it. There is never a more obvious time for federal government to take the lead than a natural disaster that swamps a state-- or multiple states.

9 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:30:19am

What people forget is that even with the best possible response the aftermath of a storm like this still hurts, can still take lives, can still be a personal disaster for weeks. FEMA can't magically make everything needed available in a day or two.

We have to plan to be on our own for at least three days. Maybe without a roof. Maybe without passable roads either.

There is always going to be hay to make out of a disaster like this. Tell Giuliani to grow up. Adults are at work.

10 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:32:48am
The same people who would seek to eliminate FEMA are the same ones complaining they aren’t there fast enough and aren’t taking steps to make sure it’s funded in a way that it could respond with sufficient numbers to assist those in need.

Just like the same Teahadist yahoos that were bitching about the evil gubmint were demanding that the feds keep their grubby mitts of their Medicare.

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:33:31am

re: #9 Daniel Ballard

What people forget is that even with the best possible response the aftermath of a storm like this still hurts, can still take lives, can still be a personal disaster for weeks. FEMA can't magically make everything needed available in a day or two.

We have to plan to be on our own for at least three days. Maybe without a roof. Maybe without passable roads either.

There is always going to be hay to make out of a disaster like this. Tell Giuliani to grow up. Adults are at work.

My favorite quote of the entire thing was a 73 year old man who lives in New York in one of the afflicted areas. He said, more or less, that he had grown up in a cold water flat with no heat, and this was going to be for just a week, so "boo hoo."

12 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:35:12am

re: #11 Mostly sane, most of the time.

My favorite quote of the entire thing was a 73 year old man who lives in New York in one of the afflicted areas. He said, more or less, that he had grown up in a cold water flat with no heat, and this was going to be for just a week, so "boo hoo."

Add to disaster supplies: Coleman/Primus stove and supply of kerosene.

13 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:36:03am

re: #12 Sheila Broflovski

Add to disaster supplies: Coleman/Primus stove and supply of kerosene.

Propane and propane products.
-- Hank Hill

14 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:36:18am
Speaking at a Romney campaign office in Florida, Giuliani said “[Obama] right now is doing a terrible job of disaster relief in my city, but no one is talking about it…

-------------------

Ed Gillespie, a senior adviser to Mitt Romney’s Presidential campaign, said Governor Romney had no quarrel with President Obama’s handling of the situation. Gillespie added that “from what we’ve heard from the governors, they’re working well with FEMA” and that “there’s a good working relationship between the state and the federal government.”

More of the usual Romney consistency.

15 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:37:39am

re: #12 Sheila Broflovski

Add to disaster supplies: Coleman/Primus stove and supply of kerosene.

Or one of these:
BioLite Camp Stove

16 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:38:21am

re: #14 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

More of the usual Romney consistency.

Typical. Fucking typical. Rudy's a petty dick. Desperate for fucking attention.

17 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:38:30am

re: #8 Obdicut

I'm not nearly so forgiving on Bloomberg for the marathon mess. That's critical resources and personnel dedicated to that particular 5-boro sports event that could and should have gone to disaster recovery efforts. That's personnel at Sanitation, NYPD, and other agencies that had to work on the marathon up until the event was cancelled that could and should have been working on disaster work.

That meant people who do the logistics (a critical area of work in a disaster) delayed in doing work on the stuff that should have been a priority.

And Rudy had no problem with the marathon stuff - showing his own tone deaf approach even as Staten Island (which strongly supported Rudy in his elections) was calling for Bloomberg's head.

The ARC and others have long said that people should expect to be on their own for up to three days before help can arrive. In many parts of NYC metro, the response was within 24 hours. Or less.

There were boots on the ground all over NJ and NY within hours after the storm cleared out.

The federal response was adequate to the task - they had the declarations in place, resources at the ready, and they were on the way. Gov. Christie's responses show that the federal response was where it needed to be - he put the partisan crap to the side because New Jersey needed more help than the state government could provide. (And that has meant that Christie's caught the ire of many right wingers who now consider Christie's "brand" tarnished or otherwise apostate to the GOP because he gave the Obama Administration passing grades on assisting during the crisis - and I'd take Christie's word over that of Rudy.

But for those who were struggling with the loss of a home, or a loved one, the help will never come fast enough.

18 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:40:54am

re: #17 lawhawk

The marathon thing I think was a pride thing, a "We can do it all" thing. I dunno. It was a weird decision that should have been obvious to everyone making it.

19 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:41:02am

re: #17 lawhawk

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

20 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:41:14am

re: #12 Sheila Broflovski

Add to disaster supplies: Coleman/Primus stove and supply of kerosene.

As long as they're used outside. Using them inside, or setting up generators too close to a home can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning, that at the outset can suggest fatigue or lethargy and can be overlooked because everyone's suffering from sleep deprivation due to the disaster and lack of power.

Campmor was busy warning people about where/how to use camping gear - and telling people to bundle up with clothes rather than risk fire or carbon monoxide poisoning.

21 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:41:47am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

A lot of them are using their time here to volunteer and help.

22 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:42:20am

Reisman: Sex-Ed Turns Children into Prostitutes and 'Little Sexual Deviants'

Liberty Counsel’s Matt Barber has been promoting new claims by Judith Reisman, a fellow professor at Liberty University, that the Department of Health and Human Services may be breaking the law by actively “grooming” children for sex. Wonkette published quite the takedown of Barber’s column, noting that he and Reisman both glaringly distort Alfred Kinsey’s research. Reisman spoke to Janet Mefferd about the column, where she said that the HHS along with groups like Planned Parenthood and the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, a group she compares to the Hitler Youth and says is part of the “pedophile movement,” are “grooming children” to embrace sexual activities that “either could kill them or maim them.” She warns that comprehensive sexual education will lead to “drug abuse, alcohol abuse and everything else,” including higher rates of venereal diseases and AIDS, by “teaching [children] sexual perversions in order to turn them into little sexual deviants.”

23 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:42:32am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

But there are some of those runners the are spreading out and helping with the clean up and delivering food.

24 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:16am

re: #22 Kragar

Teenagers would never think about sex at all unless we adults brought up the topic in sex ed class.

/

25 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:17am

re: #22 Kragar

Reisman: Sex-Ed Turns Children into Prostitutes and 'Little Sexual Deviants'

The stupid it burns.

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:18am

re: #23 Tigger2

But there are some of those runners the are spreading out and helping with the clean up and delivering food.

So far, it's the whiners who are making the news.

27 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:40am

re: #18 Obdicut

The right call would have been to postpone the marathon for a week-10 days and not an outright cancellation with less than 48 hours before the start of the event. They weren't even done clearing bodies from near the VZB starting point. Tone deaf. I get the notion of holding the marathon for community spirit, but the community didn't want it. The NYPD and Sanitation departments had not wanted it - since their rank and file were still dealing with cleanup of their own homes in affected areas.

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:49am

re: #26 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So far, it's the whiners who are making the news.

which is one reason they will always whine

29 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:43:53am

UN: Iran not cooperating on nuclear weapons probe

In other news water is wet, the sky is blue, grass is green....

30 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:44:28am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

I think the ones that are getting emo about the race being canceled are the runners that are only thinking about all the training they did for the Marathon and their own egos. They're not thinking about anything beyond that.

It's selfish and stupid, but I would imagine that someone in their lives has pointed out to them that real people are suffering and that there are things in life that are more important than a marathon.

31 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:12am

Tea party group aims to tie up election results

In a first-hand account of poll watcher training posted on the show’s blog Sunday, Sara Kugler, the coordinator for the Anna Julia Cooper Project on Gender, Race, and Politics in the South at Tulane University, headed by Harris-Perry, said her training included a picture of a man dressed as a woman having his vote challenged by a black observer, which she called “a calculated presentation” of how obvious voter fraud is.

“While voter suppression is clearly a key in True the Vote’s strategy, its real endgame is likely being able to challenge the results of the election, if it’s not a favored outcome on Nov. 7,” Kugler said. “If the president wins re-election, that will not be what is ‘true.’ Rather, True the Vote has poised itself to ‘true’ the election results by compiling what may be hundreds of thousands of voter challenges and incident reports.”

Though the group purports not to be aligned with any particular party, Kugler said, its website’s news section is composed of posts from the Republican-leaning blog Election News Center, and a forum devoted to “Important News” features articles from Fox News. The Republican Secretary of State for Ohio, Jon Husted, was also scheduled to speak at the group’s summit in August but cancelled after another MSNBC host, Rachel Maddow, contacted him asking about it.

When Republican strategist Katon Dawson pushed back on Harris-Perry’s assertion that True The Vote intended to “build a case” based on voter challenges this year, saying that True The Vote’s activities have not broken any laws, civil rights attorney Barbara Arnwine pointed out that another problematic aspect of the group is poor training.

“They were actually going into a community where there were Somalians, naturalized Somalians, voting, and telling them that they couldn’t vote because they didn’t speak proper English, and not knowing that, of course, under the Voting Rights Act of 1965, you’ve got Section 203, [that covers] bilingual provisions.” Arnwine said, referencing trumped-up voter fraud allegations in Ohio earlier this week. “We have to stop that. Even their own people were embarrassed.”

32 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:25am

re: #29 NJDhockeyfan

UN: Iran not cooperating on nuclear weapons probe

In other news water is wet, the sky is blue, grass is green....

Well lets just nuke em. ////

33 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:29am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

I know a lot of runners weren't so much pissed at the cancelling, but the fact that they first said it was on so a lot of people traveled from all over the world only to get there and then have it cancelled.

34 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:34am

re: #27 lawhawk

The biggest problem I had was Bloomberg trying to claim that it wouldn't have diverted resources. Of course it fucking would.

Anyway, whether it was Bloomberg or someone else, whoever set up NYC Service did a great freaking job.

35 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:48am

re: #20 lawhawk

As long as they're used outside. Using them inside, or setting up generators too close to a home can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning, that at the outset can suggest fatigue or lethargy and can be overlooked because everyone's suffering from sleep deprivation due to the disaster and lack of power.

Campmor was busy warning people about where/how to use camping gear - and telling people to bundle up with clothes rather than risk fire or carbon monoxide poisoning.

When I lived in Israel 40 years ago, a lot of the old houses in Jerusalem did not have central heating and people used Primus stoves as space heaters. Yes, you had to be careful around them, but these were made for indoor use. I have no idea if you can still buy them, or if they are available in the U.S.

36 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:45:59am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Some people will be selfish regardless of the circumstances.

Others will be more than generous.

Natural disasters tend to allow self-identification.

It's not as though some of those runners couldn't find another racing opportunity - the Indy marathon took in runners displaced from the NYC marathon. That's a minor inconvenience AFAIK compared to someone out in Midland Beach or Tottenville whose home was washed away or whose home was cleaved in two by a fallen tree or utility pole.

37 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:46:21am

re: #24 AK-47%

Teenagers would never think about sex at all unless we adults brought up the topic in sex ed class.

/

Its a documented fact that people never used to have premarital sex until they learned about it in a liberal public school class.

38 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:46:52am

re: #20 lawhawk

As long as they're used outside. Using them inside, or setting up generators too close to a home can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning, that at the outset can suggest fatigue or lethargy and can be overlooked because everyone's suffering from sleep deprivation due to the disaster and lack of power.

Campmor was busy warning people about where/how to use camping gear - and telling people to bundle up with clothes rather than risk fire or carbon monoxide poisoning.

They have indoor safe propane heaters. However, most fire codes do not allow any of this in multi-family units and especially in high-rises.

39 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:46:53am

re: #12 Sheila Broflovski

Propane. Go with propane. Our emergency stove and our BBQ. A good propane stove is safe to use inside on the cooktop if supervised. Boiling water can spread some heat around. Kerosene is getting hard to find here.

40 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:46:55am

re: #19 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What I don't get is the runners who seem to be rather selfish in their response, saying that they will never forgive NYC for cancelling the race.

That's pretty heartless.

Of course, the majority aren't that way.

They can get over it and go run in the Milwaukee Marathon (if Milwaukee has one).

41 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:46:56am

re: #31 Kragar

Tea party group aims to tie up election results

Creepy ass fucks.

42 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:47:08am

re: #34 Obdicut

Big props to NYC Service site and the MTA site administrators who are trying to keep up with all the service changes.

43 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:47:33am
44 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:49:16am

re: #43 Lidane

[Embedded content]

We just wont let them.

45 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:49:28am

re: #38 Gus

Some of the big problems in delivering services to people is that high rises will generally survive hurricanes and storm surges, but it will cut off those folks from food, power, and utilities. And those who are elderly or have disabilities are at a further disadvantage since elevators will be unavailable until power's restored or repairs are made.

That means added pressure on those folks to be prepared or whose support networks enable access to preparations, or once the disaster has occurred the ability and means to get in to those locations to provide assistance of some form.

46 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:50:10am

Kilmeade: ‘The best thing’ poll watchers can do is ‘intimidate people’

Appearing on Fox & Friends on the Monday before election day, Fox News senior judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano explained that campaign lawyers had found “ingenuous ways to challenge things.”

“So no matter how well it’s going, no matter how smoothly it looks, whoever’s losing has an opportunity to make a challenge,” Napolitano said. “The Democrats will say, ‘Republican poll workers wouldn’t let people who are authorized to vote, vote.’ And Republicans will say, ‘Democrats are voting twice. They also have people voting who aren’t authorized to vote.’ And the courts are not going to be able to resolve this on Tuesday night.”

Kilmeade replied: “So, if you have presence there, if you’re a Republican, if you’re a Romney or Obama people, Republican on Democrat, the best thing you can do is to have a presence there to show — maybe intimidate people into playing it straight. Correct?”

“Well, intimidation is actually [a crime],” Napolitano point out.

“Not intimidation,” Kilmeade said. “Just go, ‘Oh, that guy’s over here and…”

“I’m watching,” co-host Steve Doocy added.

47 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:50:58am

re: #45 lawhawk

I think quite a few of the elderly people I delivered food to in Stuy-town really were craving the human contact as much as the food. And I don't think that's trivial, either.

48 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #46 Kragar

Kilmeade: ‘The best thing’ poll watchers can do is ‘intimidate people’

And the best thing that Kilmeade and Doocy and the rest of those Faux News assholes can do is STFD and STFU.

49 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:52:21am

News from Cloud-Cuckoo Land, aka the Lubbock GOP.

"Mr. Conservative," Dr. Donald May, suggests that Romney has a good chance of winning in ultra-blue New York, New Jersey, and (so help me) Connecticut. His reasoning, such as it is, has to do with the storm and an endorsement from the NY Daily News.

This is the same loon who suggested President Obama used the Benghazi riot to have Ambassador Stevens killed for "knowing too much."

50 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:52:25am

re: #43 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Exactly. No guarantee of what will happen in 2014 and beyond.

51 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:52:40am

re: #46 Kragar

Kilmeade: ‘The best thing’ poll watchers can do is ‘intimidate people’

‘Democrats are voting twice.

The only two people I have heard about voting twice so far were Republican.

52 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:52:51am
53 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:53:15am

re: #47 Obdicut

I think quite a few of the elderly people I delivered food to in Stuy-town really were craving the human contact as much as the food. And I don't think that's trivial, either.

The LDS have a tradition that when a woman has a baby, at least a few meals are brought in to her family.

My aunt was complaining about the number of times that she has taken in a meal, only to see both sets of in-laws sitting around. Five grown adults in a house that did not just have a baby, and you need to bring them dinner?

My mother explained that the point is the moral support, the feeling that the ward cares that you just had a baby.

54 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:53:44am

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

News from Cloud-Cuckoo Land, aka the Lubbock GOP.

"Mr. Conservative," Dr. Donald May, suggests that Romney has a good chance of winning in ultra-blue New York, New Jersey, and (so help me) Connecticut. His reasoning, such as it is, has to do with the storm and an endorsement from the NY Daily News.

This is the same loon who suggested President Obama used the Benghazi riot to have Ambassador Stevens killed for "knowing too much."

I'm going to predict that Obama will win Oklahoma, Texas, and the Dakotas then :) just to balance out the good doc.

55 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:54:22am

re: #51 Tigger2

‘Democrats are voting twice.

The only two people I have heard about voting twice so far were Republican.

Shhh you're ruining his narrative.

56 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:54:36am

Chris Matthews Suggests Romney Hitting Obama Over "Revenge" Remark Is Racist

"It's always been the undercoating of this campaign ... that ethnic talk. This talk about revenge is of a piece with that. We grew up with it, we thought we got past it. It's there," Matthews said on Saturday night's broadcast of MSNBC's "Last Word."

Obama used the line at a campaign rally in Ohio on Friday, November 2.

Shortly after the "revenge" remark made its entrance into political lexicon, Mitt Romney responded by telling supporters to vote for "love of country" and not because of revenge.

57 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:55:49am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

For some people, that's definitely true. I really am baffled by the poutrage over saying voting is the best revenge. I seriously don't get it in the least.

58 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:56:29am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Chris Matthews Suggests Romney Hitting Obama Over "Revenge" Remark Is Racist

It's not racist, it's just stupid to attack Obama over such a trivial thing.

59 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:56:38am

re: #53 Mostly sane, most of the time.

The LDS have a tradition that when a woman has a baby, at least a few meals are brought in to her family.

My aunt was complaining about the number of times that she has taken in a meal, only to see both sets of in-laws sitting around. Five grown adults in a house that did not just have a baby, and you need to bring them dinner?

My mother explained that the point is the moral support, the feeling that the ward cares that you just had a baby.

When my daughter-in-law in Toronto gave birth, everybody on the block sent cake. The house was full of freaking cake!

We could have used some roast chicken, or potato salad.

60 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:56:47am

re: #57 Obdicut

For some people, that's definitely true. I really am baffled by the poutrage over saying voting is the best revenge. I seriously don't get it in the least.

Especially when he was doing that over people booing Romney. Some people just like to get outraged I guess.

61 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:57:01am

re: #58 Tigger2

It's not racist, it's just stupid to attack Obama over such a trivial thing.

Ding.

62 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:57:11am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Chris Matthews Suggests Romney Hitting Obama Over "Revenge" Remark Is Racist

I don't know if it's racist, but it's a fucking stupid argument.

Attacking someone for saying that voting is the best revenge? Really? That's what the GOP is reduced to these days? Pathetic. I thought Republicans were supposed to be the he-man, uber testosterone party and the Dems were the wimps. The outrage over a figure of speech is ridiculous.

63 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:57:19am

The Daily News endorsed Romney? Oh, that's going to really sway folks around here. Seriously? Who actually votes based on endorsements?

More to the point, the Daily News isn't exactly a liberal bastion that some folks think it is.

It's competing with the NY Post on a daily basis, and will often race to see who can outdo the other.

The biggest endorsement of Obama came not from an actual endorsement, but from Gov. Christie, a GOPer (and many considered a prime VP candidate) who approved of how Obama and the administration were doing during the disaster relief. It's what leaders do in times of trouble that are more telling than a paper that's trying to sell copy.

But even that isn't going to sway most folks.

64 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:58:34am

Dark Money Donors Unmasked In California

Americans for Responsible Leadership (ARL), a 501(c)4 nonprofit group run by an unlikely collection of Arizona Republicans, prompted criticism from California Democrats and progressives in October when it made the large donation to another group called the Small Business Action Committee PAC (SBAC). The SBAC is opposing California’s Proposition 30, which is Gov. Jerry Brown’s tax-hike initiative, and supporting Proposition 32, which would prohibit labor unions from raising political money through payroll deductions.

In a sharply worded press release, California’s Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC) said the money for ARL’s donation came from Americans for Job Security, the conservative super PAC, and was funneled through The Center to Protect Patient Rights, a non-profit helmed by Sean Noble, a former congressional aide tied to the movement of millions of dollars between political non-profits. The FPPC also said that in disclosing the donors, the Arizona group Americans for Responsible Leadership admitted to “campaign money laundering.”

“Americans for Responsible Leadership… today sent a letter declaring itself to be the intermediary and not the true source of the contribution,” the FPPC’s press release said. “It identified the true source of the contributions as Americans for Job Security, through a second intermediary, The Center to Protect Patient Rights. Under California law, the failure to disclose this initially was campaign money laundering.”

Colorado Dark Money Group’s Donors Revealed

The bank records highlight WTP’s ties to groups backing libertarian Ron Paul. The Conservative Action League, a Virginia social welfare nonprofit run at the time in part by John Tate, most recently Paul’s campaign manager, transferred $40,000 to WTP in August 2008, bank records show. Tate was also a consultant for WTP. In addition, WTP gave $5,000 to a group called the SD Campaign for Liberty, affiliated with Paul and the national Campaign for Liberty.

The bank records also illustrate how cash passes between dark money groups, further obscuring its original source: $500,000 passed from Coloradans for Economic Growth to WTP to the National Right to Work Committee, over a few days in October 2008. Coloradans for Economic Growth and the National Right to Work Committee are social welfare nonprofits that don’t have to disclose their donors. Tate and others paid by WTP were also once associated with National Right to Work.

WTP’s biggest donation that wasn’t simply a pass-through, for $110,000, was from the Spur Education Fund, an obscure nonprofit with no website, about which little information is available. Incorporated in June 2010, out of the same Denver law firm address as Coloradans for Economic Growth, the fund transferred money to WTP four times between July and September 2010.

Scott Shires, the man who incorporated WTP in Colorado in 2008, appeared to have signed off on one of those contributions, raising questions about whether WTP was also affiliated with Spur. A handwritten note on a transfer document for $40,000 from Spur, dated Sept. 2, 2010, said: “Deposit into Western Tradition Partnership acct ending 5610 as per Scott Shires phone request.”

65 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:59:23am

re: #57 Obdicut

For some people, that's definitely true. I really am baffled by the poutrage over saying voting is the best revenge. I seriously don't get it in the least.

They were going to be outraged about something, no matter what Obama said. If it wasn't "revenge", it would be some other out-of-context word or phrase that tripped off his tongue that day.

At this point, it's all they've got.

66 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:59:46am

re: #63 lawhawk

The Daily News endorsed Romney? Oh, that's going to really sway folks around here. Seriously? Who actually votes based on endorsements?

More to the point, the Daily News isn't exactly a liberal bastion that some folks think it is.

It's competing with the NY Post on a daily basis, and will often race to see who can outdo the other.

The biggest endorsement of Obama came not from an actual endorsement, but from Gov. Christie, a GOPer (and many considered a prime VP candidate) who approved of how Obama and the administration were doing during the disaster relief. It's what leaders do in times of trouble that are more telling than a paper that's trying to sell copy.

But even that isn't going to sway most folks.

Well, I was totally going to vote for Obama until I saw Romney got endorsed by Meatloaf, and then I knew what I had to do.
/

67 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:01:14am

re: #66 Kragar

So, you too found paradise by the dashboard light? Or was it 2 out of 3 ain't bad?

BTW - more vitriol tossed Christie's way.

68 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:02:10am

"BEHAVE YOURSELVES!"

Scarborough repeatedly shouts ‘Benghazi!’ to block voter suppression talk

During a discussion about the tight presidential race in Florida, co-host Mika Brzezinski attempted to point out that Republicans had restricted early voting, creating long lines and chaos for voters in some counties.

“You just feel like you have to finish with a story, Republicans bad, [Florida Gov.] Rick Scott bad, voting suppression,” Scarborough complained, throwing up his arms. “I have three words: Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi. I’m wandering around my ranch house muttering the words, ‘Benghazi.’ I mean, seriously, are we going here? Are we really going here?”

“But you know what?” Brzezinski attempted to continue. “We’ve had a…”

“Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!” Scarborough interrupted.

“It’s absolutely a story,” NBC’s David Gregory said of the long voter lines.

“Benghazi’s a story,” Scarborough quipped.

“It’s something we have to watch very carefully,” Gregory added. “And by the way, I think the Benghazi issue, I think there are real questions about Benghazi. There are serious questions… well, he brought it up!”

“Why do you want to cover up Benghazi?” Scarborough shouted, pointing at MSNBC.com executive editor Richard Wolffe. “Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!”

“Is the voter story I just read a story?” Brzezinski asked Republican strategist Steve Schmidt.

“Benghazi, Benghazi,” Scarborough muttered as Schmidt tried to answer.

69 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:02:19am

re: #64 Kragar

Dark Money Donors Unmasked In California

Colorado Dark Money Group’s Donors Revealed

I wish all of them would take their money and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, they need to stay the hell out of other peoples business.

70 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:02:24am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Chris Matthews Suggests Romney Hitting Obama Over "Revenge" Remark Is Racist

It is that sort of dogwhistle thing that is hard to call someone out over: but the sinister undertone is to imply that Angry Black Obama is calling for revenge on whitey

71 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:03:14am

re: #66 Kragar

Well, I was totally going to vote for Obama until I saw Romney got endorsed by Meatloaf, and then I knew what I had to do.
/

Put on some leather and fishnets and do the Time Warp?

Youtube Video
72 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:03:29am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Chris Matthews Suggests Romney Hitting Obama Over "Revenge" Remark Is Racist

I agree with Chris Matthews. It's just another case out of MANY in which Romney is playing to the fears of the racist right wing base by portraying the President as a scary angry black radical who wants "revenge" for slavery.

At this point, it's ludicrous for right wingers to keep trying to deny this. The Republican Party has been in full-bore race-baiting mode all election season.

73 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:03:36am

re: #67 lawhawk

So, you too found paradise by the dashboard light? Or was it 2 out of 3 ain't bad?

BTW - more vitriol tossed Christie's way.

"I'd Lie For You (and that's the Truth)"

74 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:03:49am

re: #65 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

They were going to be outraged about something, no matter what Obama said. If it wasn't "revenge", it would be some other out-of-context word or phrase that tripped off his tongue that day.

At this point, it's all they've got.

I, personally, am outraged by Mitt Romney beating the word 'tomorrow' within an inch of its life in Florida this morning.

//

75 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:04:10am

re: #72 Charles Johnson

At this point, it's ludicrous for right wingers to keep trying to deny this. The Republican Party has been in full-bore race-baiting mode all election season.

And well before.

76 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:06:06am

re: #57 Obdicut

For some people, that's definitely true. I really am baffled by the poutrage over saying voting is the best revenge. I seriously don't get it in the least.

I really think that, for some people at least, there is a racial aspect to this. There's been a constant drumbeat on the wacko right about Obama's supposed desire to use his office to get back at white people for all the harm they've caused blacks.

77 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:08:33am

re: #72 Charles Johnson

I agree with Chris Matthews. It's just another case out of MANY in which Romney is playing to the fears of the racist right wing base by portraying the President as a scary angry black radical who wants "revenge" for slavery.

At this point, it's ludicrous for right wingers to keep trying to deny this. The Republican Party has been in full-bore race-baiting mode all election season.

I see no racist undertones on Romney's response to Obama's revenge statement.

"No, no, no, Don't boo. Vote. Voting is the best revenge"
~President Obama

"Did you see what President Obama said today? He asked his supporters to vote for revenge,...Instead, I ask the American people to vote for love of country."
~ Mitt Romney

Nope, not seeing it at all.

78 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:08:46am

I really should refrain from generalizing about my local Republican Party. It is in truth a big tent, and we see a range of responses to the various issues. The Benghazi scandal is a good example:

RINO lib-Republican: "President Obama was negligent in his response because he was playing golf and partying with rap stars."

Moderate Republican: "President Obama was negligent in his response because he didn't want to offend the Muslim Brotherhood."

Conservative Republican: "Obama the Usurper withheld a full military response because he wanted to dispose of diplomatic staff who knew too much."

Radical Republican (peeking out of bunker): "There is no such place as Benghazi, we are living in a matrix."

79 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:10:10am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

I see no racist undertones on Romney's response to Obama's revenge statement.

Nope, not seeing it at all.

And Romney didn't take the president completely out of context, seizing upon the most inflammatory word and using it to connote something the president didn't even actually say.

Nope, not seeing that at all, either.

80 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:11:21am

Success is the greatest revenge!

[Faints]

Seriously, who gives a rat's ass.

81 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:11:44am

re: #79 makeitstop

And Romney didn't take the president completely out of context, seizing upon the most inflammatory word and using it to connote something the presaident didn't even say.

Nope, not seeing that at all, either.

That's called politics. He's trying to get more votes. Nontroversy.

82 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:12:03am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

I see no racist undertones on Romney's response to Obama's revenge statement.

Nope, not seeing it at all.

He's got plenty of conniving, opportunistic, dishonorable and dishonest overtones. Whether or not we should add 'racist' to that list really feels like a post-straw-on-camel discussion. It's quite bad enough as it is for a decent person to recoil in horror from voting for that asshole.

83 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:12:24am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

I see no racist undertones on Romney's response to Obama's revenge statement.

Nope, not seeing it at all.

Do you at least see the weapons-grade stupidity of attacking the man for using a figure of speech? He said voting was the best revenge. That's hardly a cause for all the outrage.

84 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:12:32am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

There isn't any racism in Romney's statement itself. There are a disappointingly large number of people-- mostly in the GOP-- who think that black people are seeking revenge on white people for slavery, oppression, etc. Some people have directly accused Obama of supporting such a revenge or already enacting such a revenge.

I think Romney is playing off of something that, for some people, has distinctly racist tones, but otherwise is just being his normal douchey self and trying to pretend what the president said is in some way distasteful. The irony is especially rich given that Obama was telling people to stop booing Romney.

85 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:12:46am

Paul Ryan Says Obama Would Compromise 'Judeo-Christian Western Civilization Values'

"It's a dangerous path," Ryan said on his opening remarks on the call, which has been rescheduled at least once. "It's a path that grows government, restricts freedom and liberty, and compromises those values, those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us such a great an exceptional nation in the first place."

86 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:13:34am

re: #85 Kragar

Paul Ryan Says Obama Would Compromise 'Judeo-Christian Western Civilization Values'

But revenge.

87 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:13:36am

re: #81 NJDhockeyfan

That's called politics. He's trying to get more votes. Nontroversy.

No, that's what you call 'politics.'

That's what I call 'lying.'

88 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:14:26am

This is about that Politico piece that I called "creepy" this morning:

89 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:14:46am

re: #58 Tigger2

It's not racist, it's just stupid to attack Obama over such a trivial thing.

Although the Venn Diagram of "racist" and "stupid" does have a lot of overlap in it.

90 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:15:13am

re: #88 Gus

This is about that Politico piece that I called "creepy" this morning:

[Embedded content]

Well then, just fuck them.

91 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:15:50am

re: #87 makeitstop

No, that's what you call 'politics.'

That's what I call 'lying.'

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

92 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:16:36am

re: #84 Obdicut

There isn't any racism in Romney's statement itself. There are a disappointingly large number of people-- mostly in the GOP-- who think that black people are seeking revenge on white people for slavery, oppression, etc. Some people have directly accused Obama of supporting such a revenge or already enacting such a revenge.

I think Romney is playing off of something that, for some people, has distinctly racist tones, but otherwise is just being his normal douchey self and trying to pretend what the president said is in some way distasteful. The irony is especially rich given that Obama was telling people to stop booing Romney.

What I wanted to say, only better written.

I think a much more obvious example of Romney playing up to the racists in the GOP is his embrace of Trump, and then saying nothing when the Donald goes on his birther rants.

And yes, birtherism is racially motivated. It's also embraced by large swaths of the GOP.

You do the math.

93 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:16:46am

re: #72 Charles Johnson

At this point, it's ludicrous for right wingers to keep trying to deny this. The Republican Party has been in full-bore race-baiting mode all election season.

The overt racism has been far, far more prevalent coming from the right this election season, and in a much uglier fashion.

Cases in point: I personally have seen close to half a dozen of the "Don't re-nig in 2012" bumper stickers while on the road here in the Dallas area during the last six months or so.
Not to mention the multiple cases of campaign sign theft and defacings in the area, a state Tea Party group that has been getting national news for their voter suppression and intimidation efforts - the list goes on.

Nothing being done on the left comes even close to any of this.

94 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:17:19am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

Anyone paying attention should have no problem with that this election cycle.

95 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:17:25am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

No trick to that at all. Who's lying more has been evident since the Republican primaries.

96 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:18:28am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

That's no trick. Not this year.

97 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:18:47am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

Bogus MBF argument. Y'all can do better than that.

98 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:19:04am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

You know, the statement 'politicians lie' and 'both sides lie' is about as useful and relevant as saying 'humans lie'.

The GOP, unfortunately, takes the cake and eats it too, when it comes to lying. First of all, they have a lot of lies as party planks-- denial of global warming, denial of separation of church and state being in the US constitution, etc. Second of all, Romney has not only lied a lot, he's become a metalier-- he lies about his own positions, and contradicts himself with almost metronomic regularity.

The problem with being the anti-science party is that it carries the burden of a heck of a lot of lying along with it.

As I recall, though, you're a global warming denier, so the GOP may not appear anti-science to you.

99 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:20:41am

re: #92 Mattand

Not just Trump, but his pandering to the nutso fringe websites and bloggers that push even more deranged and racist theories, too. He had Corsi covering his campaign. He has Trump as a fundraiser and spokesperson. He has Sununnu talking shit about black people voting because of race. Etc. etc. There is no shortage of examples of Romney using racism and racists during this campaign.

101 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:20:52am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

You seem singularly uninterested in actually mastering this trick.

102 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:21:03am

re: #78 Shiplord Kirel

The big tent on Hurricane Sandy:

RINO lib-Republican: "President Obama was negligent in his response because he was playing golf and partying with rap stars."

Moderate Republican: "The free market could have done a better job. Just look at those gas lines! Supply and demand in action."

Conservative Republican: "FEMA has been sent in to round up dissidents under cover of hurricane relief."

Radical Republican: "There was no storm. It was fabricated by the media to give Obama an excuse to cancel the election."

103 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:22:07am

re: #98 Obdicut

You know, the statement 'politicians lie' and 'both sides lie' is about as useful and relevant as saying 'humans lie'.

The GOP, unfortunately, takes the cake and eats it too, when it comes to lying. First of all, they have a lot of lies as party planks-- denial of global warming, denial of separation of church and state being in the US constitution, etc. Second of all, Romney has not only lied a lot, he's become a metalier-- he lies about his own positions, and contradicts himself with almost metronomic regularity.

The problem with being the anti-science party is that it carries the burden of a heck of a lot of lying along with it.

As I recall, though, you're a global warming denier, so the GOP may not appear anti-science to you.

They both lie. After each debate the fact checkers found both candidates lying about different things. Face it, if you base you vote on picking someone who never lies you might as well stay home.

104 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:22:43am

re: #103 NJDhockeyfan

They both lie. After each debate the fact checkers found both candidates lying about different things. Face it, if you base you vote on picking someone who never lies you might as well stay home.

NJDhockeyfan used dodge!

It's not very effective.

105 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:23:37am

re: #103 NJDhockeyfan

They both lie. After each debate the fact checkers found both candidates lying about different things. Face it, if you base you vote on picking someone who never lies you might as well stay home.

"Both sides do it". How original.

106 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:24:08am

Screw fact checkers.

107 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:24:13am

re: #105 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

"Both sides do it". How original.

Name a politician who never lied.

108 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:24:16am

Jeep is moving production to China.
-Mitt Romney.

109 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:24:49am

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

Name a politician who never lied.

Reply to an assertion nobody made.

110 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:11am

re: #108 Varek Raith

Jeep is moving production to China.
-Mitt Romney.

I believe in a woman's right to choose.
-Mitt Romney

111 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:13am

I do believe in basic science. I believe in participating in space. I believe in analysis of new sources of energy. I believe in laboratories, looking at ways to conduct electricity with -- with cold fusion, if we can come up with it. It was the University of Utah that solved that. We somehow can’t figure out how to duplicate it.
-Mitt Romney

112 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:18am

re: #108 Varek Raith

Jeep is moving production to China.
-Mitt Romney.

Obama is sympathizing with the attackers in Benghazi.
-- Mitt Romney

113 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:18am

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

Name a politician who never lied.

Ur mom.

Anyone else out there want to have an intelligent adult conversation?

114 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:56am

re: #103 NJDhockeyfan

They both lie. After each debate the fact checkers found both candidates lying about different things. Face it, if you base you vote on picking someone who never lies you might as well stay home.

I'm sorry, you appear, as usual, to have not bothered to read my comment at all. Why do you do this? I'm never insulting to you, I'm always reasonable towards you, and yet you don't even have the basic decency of actually reading what I wrote.

What I said was that saying politicians lie is useless, since humans in general lie. I then pointed out that the lies of one 'side' are far more obvious, egregious, and plentiful than the other. Specifically, the anti-science attitude in the GOP leads to a lot of lying, but there's plenty of other large-scale GOP and Romney lies to point out.

Obama's administration lies when they allege that pot has no medical uses and should remain in its current drug classification. That is the most serious and harmful lie that they tell, in my opinion. It contributes to many of the problems we have in this country. That's an example of a serious, anti-science, and dangerous lie by Obama.

The problem there is that Romney tells the same lie, and many others that are far worse-- like alleging that humans aren't causing AGW.

Are you still an AGW denier, by the way? It obviously colors your view of the parties if you personally also are anti-science, so I'm curious.

115 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:25:59am

We came up with cold fusion!
Just forgot how to do it.

116 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:26:05am

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

Name a politician who never lied.

Straw man. No one here is looking for a politician who never lied.

We're just trying to avoid the politicians who never tell the truth.

117 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:27:24am

The greatest lies that Romney has told are the lies he tells himself as he gazes into the mirror.

118 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:27:42am

re: #105 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

"Both sides do it". How original.

One husband says "No honey, you don't look fat in those pants."

The other husband says "No, I totally am not nailing that other woman at work."

Both liars, so they're both just as bad.

119 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:27:53am

re: #115 Varek Raith

I'm waiting for my ZPM damnit.

120 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:28:10am

Obama - 86.3%

Romney - Lower than his tax rate.

121 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:28:48am

re: #113 erik_t

Ur mom.

Anyone else out there want to have an intelligent adult conversation?

My mom is not a politician and I don't think she's never lied.

122 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:29:12am

Giuliani Claims Obama Response To Hurricane Sandy ‘Worse Than Katrina’

Speaking at a Romney campaign office in Florida, Giuliani said “[Obama] right now is doing a terrible job of disaster relief in my city, but no one is talking about it…People don’t have water, they don’t have food, electricity and his FEMA is no where to be found. This is a worse response than Katrina.” He also levelled the charge during a Fox News appearance, telling host Neil Cavuto that the notion FEMA was doing a good job was a “joke:”

I think maybe because there’s an election going on, people don’t want to say that, but I think FEMA has dropped the ball, certainly as big they did with Katrina, maybe bigger because they had more warning here and the situation isn’t as big as Katrina.

123 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:29:20am

Ultimate bad liar: "You don't sweat much for a fat girl."

124 sagehen  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:29:22am

Neil deGrasse Tyson finds Krypton

Tyson, whose planetarium sits next to the Museum of Natural History on West 81st Street at Central Park West, was happy to be of service.

“As a native of Metropolis, I was delighted to help Superman, who has done so much for my city over all these years,” he said.

Tyson himself makes an appearance in “Action Comics” No. 14, which goes on sale Wednesday, but in it, it’s the Man of Steel who figures out the exact location.

125 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:29:51am

Listing Romney's lies one by one could take all day week month. Let's just one-stop it.

126 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:29:59am
127 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:30:13am

Scenes from Staten Island - where nearly every shore road had boats up on them - blocking traffic and access.

128 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:30:17am

I'd like to see an example of an Obama campaign lie as egregious as Romney insisting that Jeep is moving American jobs to China. Even after all evidence proved them wrong, Romney's campaign still ran with it.

129 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:30:26am

re: #111 Varek Raith

I do believe in basic science. I believe in participating in space. I believe in analysis of new sources of energy. I believe in laboratories, looking at ways to conduct electricity with -- with cold fusion, if we can come up with it. It was the University of Utah that solved that. We somehow can’t figure out how to duplicate it.
-Mitt Romney

I have not done it, but only because:

A. There is a seamless international conspiracy of evolutionary satanists and commie pseudo-scientists to keep me from winning the Nobel Prize and untold wealth.

OR

B. I don't know how.

130 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:31:14am

Mitt Romney Pants On Fire

Mitt Romney Mostly False

Argue with Politifact all ya want. This is a looong list.

131 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:31:20am

re: #123 AK-47%

Ultimate bad liar: "You don't sweat much for a fat girl."

For my birthday, my buddies got me a sweater, which was okay, but last year they got me a screamer.

Youtube Video
132 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:32:43am
133 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:32:55am

re: #129 Shiplord Kirel

I think a lot of people don't get that the cold fusion claims were surprising because we don't even have a theoretical model for how it would work. That's why there was immense skepticism towards it immediately.

134 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:33:47am

re: #93 RadicalModerate

The overt racism has been far, far more prevalent coming from the right this election season, and in a much uglier fashion.

Cases in point: I personally have seen close to half a dozen of the "Don't re-nig in 2012" bumper stickers while on the road here in the Dallas area during the last six months or so.
Not to mention the multiple cases of campaign sign theft and defacings in the area, a state Tea Party group that has been getting national news for their voter suppression and intimidation efforts - the list goes on.

Nothing being done on the left comes even close to any of this.

But as you can see, right wingers are still trying to deny it, and acting outraged that anyone would ever accuse them of such a thing.

135 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:34:08am

re: #133 Obdicut

I think a lot of people don't get that the cold fusion claims were surprising because we don't even have a theoretical model for how it would work. That's why there was immense skepticism towards it immediately.

Well, worse than that. We have a very very strong theoretical model for how it should not work.

136 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:34:37am

re: #114 Obdicut

Tomorrow at the voting booth people are going to choose to vote for who they think will help their family and the country the best. For some it's who told the best lies, who told the worst lies, and who they feel will make a better difference the next 4 years.

Of course there are quite a few who will vote for the one their family told them to vote for.

137 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:34:55am

re: #134 Charles Johnson

But as you can see, right wingers are still trying to deny it, and acting outraged that anyone would ever accuse them of such a thing.

But, you see, everyone has lied before. Pay no attention to the two drinking fountains behind the curtain.

138 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:35:20am

re: #133 Obdicut

I think a lot of people don't get that the cold fusion claims were surprising because we don't even have a theoretical model for how it would work. That's why there was immense skepticism towards it immediately.

Seriously. As soon as cold fusion was mentioned, every physicist on the planet was like "O RLY?"

139 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:35:34am

re: #132 Lidane

[Embedded content]

LOL, Steve Schmidt should be Christie's VP choice in '16. They're both considered traitors at this point.

140 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:36:04am

Drudge, keeping the fever dream alive:

TWILIGHT?
GALLUP: R 49% O 48%

141 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:37:00am

re: #100 Daniel Ballard

The world is divided into people who are right.

There are two types of people in this world: those who can extrapolate from an incomplete data set

142 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:37:03am

I can initiate cold fusion with a single thought.
Just how awesome I am.

143 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:37:09am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Tomorrow at the voting booth people are going to choose to vote for who they think will help their family and the country the best. For some it's who told the best lies, who told the worst lies, and who they feel will make a better difference the next 4 years.

Of course there are quite a few who will vote for the one their family told them to vote for.

Again, I'm baffled how this is a response to what I posted.

You're a rational human being. You're involved. Why don't you actually want to have a conversation? Why do you just respond with press releases?

For someone who has a generally negative view of politicians, your statements are often extremely similar to those that a politician would make.

144 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:37:39am

'Baby Killer' And Racist Epithet Deface Campaign Offices Of Wayne Powell, Eric Cantor's Opponent

Vandals spray-painted the words "Baby Killer" on the campaign headquarters of Wayne Powell, the Democrat challenging Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and wrote "n***** Lover" on a sign in front of another one of his offices, a Powell spokesman confirmed Saturday to The Huffington Post.

A tipster gave HuffPost a heads up on the incidents, and Powell campaign spokesman Brendan MacArthur confirmed the vandalism at the Midlothian and Henrico offices. MacArthur said the attacks happened Friday night and police departments in both counties have been alerted.

146 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:39:16am

Jimmy Carter

147 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:39:21am

re: #144 Kragar

'Baby Killer' And Racist Epithet Deface Campaign Offices Of Wayne Powell, Eric Cantor's Opponent

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.

148 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:39:31am

re: #144 Kragar

'Baby Killer' And Racist Epithet Deface Campaign Offices Of Wayne Powell, Eric Cantor's Opponent

FALSE FLAG OPERATION!!1!

149 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:39:48am

re: #147 Mocking Jay

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.

Revenge

150 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:40:36am

re: #130 Daniel Ballard

Mitt Romney Pants On Fire

Mitt Romney Mostly False

Argue with Politifact all ya want. This is a looong list.

Here's Obama's list.

Barack Obama Pants On Fire

Barack Obama Mostly False

There now, what have we accomplished?

Nothing.

151 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:41:18am

re: #149 Gus

Revenge

OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA!

152 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:42:21am
153 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:42:25am

re: #151 Kragar

OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA! OKLAHOMA!

o.O

154 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:42:32am

re: #153 Mocking Jay

o.O

Youtube Video
155 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:42:42am

re: #150 NJDhockeyfan

Here's Obama's list.

Barack Obama Pants On Fire

Barack Obama Mostly False

There now, what have we accomplished?

Nothing.

The nature and length of the lists is pretty telling IMO.

156 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:43:29am

re: #152 Gus

... what?

157 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:43:30am

re: #152 Gus

An out of touch plutocrat who can’t be trusted and hasn’t been forthcoming about his plans for the country.

Uhhh, yeah. That sounds right.

158 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:43:30am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Tomorrow at the voting booth people are going to choose to vote for who they think will help their family and the country the best. For some it's who told the best lies, who told the worst lies, and who they feel will make a better difference the next 4 years.

Of course there are quite a few who will vote for the one their family told them to vote for.

I'm voting for the guy who:

- gave the order to take Bin Laden out
- dealt with Hurricane Sandy ASAP
- cut taxes twice
- made sure women get equal pay for equal work
- isn't trying to ban abortion
- expanded gun rights
- enacted a law that made sure your kids have health care even if you're laid off
- is managing to bring down the overall unemployment rate

I don't know why you aren't.

159 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:43:48am

re: #143 Obdicut

Again, I'm baffled how this is a response to what I posted.

You're a rational human being. You're involved. Why don't you actually want to have a conversation? Why do you just respond with press releases?

For someone who has a generally negative view of politicians, your statements are often extremely similar to those that a politician would make.

I read it. You are basically saying the lies these guys spew are on different topics. Some people see the subjects they lie about are rated on importance and I don't argue that. Everyone feels strongly about different things.

160 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:44:27am

re: #152 Gus

[Embedded content]

Looks like Dan Riehl's brush with death made him reassess his behavior.

Not.

161 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:44:57am

Let's see.

Pants on fire:

Romney: 19
Obama: 7

162 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:45:06am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

I read it. You are basically saying the lies these guys spew are on different topics. Some people see the subjects they lie about are rated on importance and I don't argue that. Everyone feels strongly about different things.

We have this odd notion, reflected in our obsession with fact checkers, that lies are some absolute standard that is to be tallied up on some scoreboard. Lies come in all sorts of colors, shades and degrees of perfidity.

163 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:45:07am

re: #155 Daniel Ballard

The nature and length of the lists is pretty telling IMO.

Not really, no. There are individuals who have lied a lot more than either Romney or Obama, but if you look at their ratings on Politifact you'll find them rated as generally true. This is because Politifact doesn't (and couldn't) review all statements made by someone, but just, well, whatever they decide to. So all that can be said is of the statements reviewed by Politifact, they found Obama was more truthful than Romney. It doesn't actually mean anything, since the process of selection itself can show bias too.

164 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:45:29am

re: #130 Daniel Ballard

Mitt Romney Pants On Fire

Mitt Romney Mostly False

Argue with Politifact all ya want. This is a looong list.

And how many have they corrected, I wonder?

165 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:46:38am

Magic underpants on fire.

166 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:46:56am

I'm grippin' man. My stomach is in knots about tomorrow. Lord, let it be over soon.

167 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:46:58am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides lie. They lie all the time. They've been lying for hundreds of years. The trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other.

re: #150 NJDhockeyfan

Here's Obama's list.

Barack Obama Pants On Fire

Barack Obama Mostly False

There now, what have we accomplished?

Nothing.

So the trick is to figure out who is lying more, but compiling lists of who lied more accomplishes nothing?

Care to try again?

168 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:46:58am

re: #161 Gus

Let's see.

Pants on fire:

Romney: 19
Obama: 7

See!?!? They both do it!!

(at least that is what I would say if I was 6 years old.)

169 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #168 garhighway

See!?!? They both do it!!

(at least that is what I would say if I was 6 years old.)

Romney has a double digit lead in the pants on fire division. :D

170 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

I read it. You are basically saying the lies these guys spew are on different topics.

No, that is not in the least bit what I am saying.

Some people see the subjects they lie about are rated on importance and I don't argue that. Everyone feels strongly about different things.

No, it's not that the subjects are different. That's not my allegation. Again, what I am saying is that the GOP is an anti-science party in many, many ways, and being anti-science requires a ton of lying. It requires denying reality, and then lying on top of that. This isn't even touching Romney's simple lies of fact, like the claim about Jeep being moved to China, or that Obama went on an apology tour, or that Obama didn't call the attack on Banghazi terrorism. I'm leaving entirely out all of Romney's lies of that nature, and just focusing on the underlying lies of the GOP as a whole.

That's one of the reasons I keep asking-- and you keep dodging, again in a rather politician-like fashion-- the simple straightforward question of whether you still deny AGW. Would you mind answering that, please?

171 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:47:37am

re: #165 Mocking Jay

Magic underpants on fire.

I'm trying to work up a joke about a burning bush, but nothing's coming. Probably just as well.

172 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:47:55am

re: #167 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

re: #150 NJDhockeyfan

So the trick is to figure out who is lying more, but compiling lists of who lied more accomplishes nothing?

Care to try again?

Not really. They are both liars. I don't judge my votes on a lying scorecard.

173 krypto  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:48:01am

All I can say is that the more I hear from Republicans, the more I hope neither Romney, nor Ryan, nor any other Republican gets elected.

174 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:49:40am

re: #165 Mocking Jay

Magic underpants on fire.

"Did someone report a fire?"
"Yeah, its in my pants."
"Lucky for you, I brought the hose."

/bow chicka bow wow

175 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:49:57am

Uh, I'm actually going to to, I'm not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was. And with regards to, uh, I'll go back and take at what was said there.
-Mitt Romney

176 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:49:57am

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

Not really. They are both liars. I don't judge my votes on a lying scorecard.

So when you said "the trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other", you didn't really mean it?

177 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:50:09am

re: #151 Kragar

Ruprecht. . .simmer down

178 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:50:50am

So, back on topic.

Rudy Giuliani is a liar.

179 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:50:52am

re: #170 Obdicut

No, that is not in the least bit what I am saying.

No, it's not that the subjects are different. That's not my allegation. Again, what I am saying is that the GOP is an anti-science party in many, many ways, and being anti-science requires a ton of lying. It requires denying reality, and then lying on top of that. This isn't even touching Romney's simple lies of fact, like the claim about Jeep being moved to China, or that Obama went on an apology tour, or that Obama didn't call the attack on Banghazi terrorism. I'm leaving entirely out all of Romney's lies of that nature, and just focusing on the underlying lies of the GOP as a whole.

That's one of the reasons I keep asking-- and you keep dodging, again in a rather politician-like fashion-- the simple straightforward question of whether you still deny AGW. Would you mind answering that, please?

Oh, this is about AGW? I've said this many times I don't disagree that the the climate is changing. I do disagree that I caused it by driving my SUV, oh and cow farts.

180 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:51:05am

re: #176 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

So when you said "the trick is to figure out who is lying more than the other", you didn't really mean it?

He said outright that even if Mitt Romney was proven to have committed perjury in a court of law, he'd still vote for him. So it's not the lying, or how serious the lying, it's only whether the liar has an (R) after his name.

181 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:51:11am

My gay buddy in Arizona, with whom I disagree on most everything but whose educated opinions I generally respect, is predicting a Mitt victory, and a strong one. I find it a bit disturbing.

182 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:51:23am

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

Not really. They are both liars. I don't judge my votes on a lying scorecard.

But you said that the trick is to figure out who is lying more, yeah?

We figured out the trick for you. Now it doesn't matter?

That's weak.

183 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:51:25am

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

Not really. They are both liars. I don't judge my votes on a lying scorecard.

This reminds me of the SNL satire of Jesse Helms: "I don't judge people by the color of their skin. I judge them by the size of their nostrils."

184 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:51:41am

re: #177 DisturbedEma

Ruprecht. . .simmer down

May I go to the bathroom?
Yes.
... Thank you.

185 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:11am

re: #178 Gus

So, back on topic.

Rudy Giuliani is a liar.

And we see by checking our prefixes and the dictionary that Poly=many and ticks=blood sucking insects, therefore politics has been defined.

186 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:15am

re: #181 AK-47%

My gay buddy in Arizona, with whom I disagree on most everything but whose educated opinions I generally respect, is predicting a Mitt victory, and a strong one. I find it a bit disturbing.

Is he a Log Cabin Republican? And if so, for the love of God, why?

187 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:15am

re: #178 Gus

So, back on topic.

Rudy Giuliani is a liar.

Just like everyone else.
/

188 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:22am

re: #182 makeitstop

But you said that the trick is to figure out who is lying more, yeah?

We figured out the trick for you. Now it doesn't matter?

That's weak.

I said some people base their votes on lying scorecards. It's stupid IMHO.

189 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:32am

Unless I'm doing it wrong, Freep hasn't added threads in about 10 hrs. (I try to stay off their page by using cache except when watching a particular thread for comments.) Was hoping to have a baseline to compare tomorrow's reactions.

190 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:53:03am

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, this is about AGW? I've said this many times I don't disagree that the the climate is changing. I do disagree that I caused it by driving my SUV, oh and cow farts.

Someday you might join us in the reality based world and realize that it's not all about you, but rather about many hundreds of thousands of SUVs being driven at the same time. Collectives do exist whether you acknowledge them or not.

191 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:53:16am

re: #184 Kragar

I almost asked if I needed to get the genital cuff, but decided to make sure we were on the same page, seeing as it's college football season, which I don't follow too much beyond the Badgers. . .:)

192 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:53:28am

re: #181 AK-47%

My gay buddy in Arizona, with whom I disagree on most everything but whose educated opinions I generally respect, is predicting a Mitt victory, and a strong one. I find it a bit disturbing.

That they have gays in AZ?

193 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:54:05am

Tomorrow this will all be over. I do believe that the President will retain his job and while I voted for Mr Romney, I do believe that four more years of President Obama would be ok as well. I am an engineer by training and I am an executive by experience and I work closely with private equity. I believe Mr Romney's background would be a plus to this country. I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy. I also have disliked the current administrations stance on space exploration. However, I do believe President Obama can be trusted and he has the best interests of the country in mind. Upon his victory tomorrow, which likely will be narrow, I would hope he would make it his goal to try to heal some of the divides.

I do think we owe both of these people a debt of gratitude that they would be willing to put themselves and their families through this ordeal just to give us a choice for leadership. I have never bought into the hatred that appears to be required these days in politics toward one's opponent. Four years ago most on this site supported Senator Mcclain but after the election most here expressed fervent hope the new President would do well. Were Romney to win tomorrow, I would hope the same occurs here.

194 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:54:07am

re: #188 NJDhockeyfan

I said some people base their votes on lying scorecards. It's stupid IMHO.

That explains everything.

///////

195 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:54:15am

re: #190 Mocking Jay

Someday you might join us in the reality based world and realize that it's not all about you, but rather about many hundreds of thousands of SUVs being driven at the same time. Collectives do exist whether you acknowledge them or not.

Perhaps.

I have to go do some work. I wish I could stay though. I'm really enjoying LGF this morning.

Anywho have a great day all!

196 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:54:20am

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, this is about AGW?

See, this is what I mean. I stated very, very clearly, several times, that I was talking about AGW, and here you are po-facedly pretending like you've just managed to figure it out. What is the benefit in that?

I've said this many times I don't disagree that the the climate is changing. I do disagree that I caused it by driving my SUV, oh and cow farts.

Okay. So you're still an AGW denier, and so obviously the anti-science lies of the GOP aren't going to bother you, because you believe them, and they're not lies to you.

If it's economic interests that are driving you, how do you reconcile Mitt Romney's decision to increase defense spending and cut taxes? Non-partisan reviews of his promises have concluded that they're impossible to fulfill without junking the entirety of the discretionary budget in the US. It's more complex than a direct lie, but how do you personally resolve the contradictions in Romney's economic statements?

197 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:55:02am

re: #195 NJDhockeyfan

Perhaps.

I have to go do some work. I wish I could stay though. I'm really enjoying LGF this morning.

Anywho have a great day all!

And off you go without actually answering the question. Color me shocked.

198 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:55:10am

re: #181 AK-47%

I find the fact that so many people on both sides seem certain of victory, I'm not sure why that bothers me, maybe because I'm twisted in knots with anxiety? Where are all my other hand wringers? (not to be confused with pearl clutchers)

199 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:55:43am

re: #193 Big Steve

I do not feel I owe Romney anything, nor do I believe people should be lauded for seeking high office and the power and privilege that comes with it. I do not understand why you do.

200 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:55:51am

re: #193 Big Steve

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.

So you can understand what 47% of this nation had to hear about them.

201 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:56:23am

re: #198 DisturbedEma

I find the fact that so many people on both sides seem certain of victory, I'm not sure why that bothers me, maybe because I'm twisted in knots with anxiety? Where are all my other hand wringers? (not to be confused with pearl clutchers)

Take two 538s and check back in the morning.

202 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:56:27am

re: #162 AK-47%

Updinged for using "perfidity"....love that word.

203 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:56:49am

re: #186 Mattand

Is he a Log Cabin Republican? And if so, for the love of God, why?

No, he is not LCR, just conservative in the sense that he is rather well established, has no tax deductions or deferrals of the type that families or home mortgage owners hold, and is open to arguments from a party that advocates lower taxes and small government.

But he is well versed in financial and social aspects and is seeing a Romney victory. He is not campaigning or trying to sway my vote, he knows how I have voted (absentee, and for whom, namely Obama).

his arguments were rather convincing, basically that Obama will just not be able to generate the turnout that buoyed him to victory in 2008.

Causes me some concern, and I was only guardedly optimistic to begin with about O's chances.

204 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:56:50am

re: #193 Big Steve

Upon his victory tomorrow, which likely will be narrow, I would hope he would make it his goal to try to heal some of the divides.

Precisely how in the FUCK would Obama possibly hope to 'heal the divide' of a bunch of fucking racist pieces of dogshit?

We all know that Obama came into office swept up in a whirlwind of liberal frenzy, completely unwilling to bargain or negotiate with the GOP on any issue.

lol.

205 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:57:20am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Not sure how I'm gonna get through tomorrow without a TON of Vitamin W. . .:)

206 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:57:40am

re: #193 Big Steve

Condescending, clueless, and hopelessly out of touch. Pray tell, how do you think lower-income women in red states are going to cope with Romney's gutting of Planned Parenthood and appointment of Bork-style Supreme Court justices? How do you think the coast will cope with more climate change denial and gutting of funding to FEMA, weather satellites, and research programs?

Hope your precious little tax break is worth it 9_9

207 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:57:55am

re: #193 Big Steve

We would wish him well because our fate is tied to his. And because we are not Rush Limbaugh.

208 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:58:16am

re: #193 Big Steve

Tomorrow this will all be over. I do believe that the President will retain his job and while I voted for Mr Romney, I do believe that four more years of President Obama would be ok as well. I am an engineer by training and I am an executive by experience and I work closely with private equity. I believe Mr Romney's background would be a plus to this country. I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy. I also have disliked the current administrations stance on space exploration. However, I do believe President Obama can be trusted and he has the best interests of the country in mind. Upon his victory tomorrow, which likely will be narrow, I would hope he would make it his goal to try to heal some of the divides.

I do think we owe both of these people a debt of gratitude that they would be willing to put themselves and their families through this ordeal just to give us a choice for leadership. I have never bought into the hatred that appears to be required these days in politics toward one's opponent. Four years ago most on this site supported Senator Mcclain but after the election most here expressed fervent hope the new President would do well. Were Romney to win tomorrow, I would hope the same occurs here.

While I don't agree with your choice for POTUS, it is a good post.

My only comment: any working through hard feelings needs to come from the party that made obstructing Obama their primary focus, often at the expense of the US.

209 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:58:17am

re: #163 Obdicut

Except this time it leads to a correct conclusion.

210 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:58:17am

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, this is about AGW? I've said this many times I don't disagree that the the climate is changing. I do disagree that I caused it by driving my SUV, oh and cow farts.

Like the electromagnetic absorption spectrum of methane has a well-known liberal bias.

Anti-science dumbass.

211 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:58:24am

re: #199 Obdicut

I do not feel I owe Romney anything, nor do I believe people should be lauded for seeking high office and the power and privilege that comes with it. I do not understand why you do.

Yes, because there is such a shortage of people who want to be in charge...

212 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:01:11am
213 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:01:19am

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

214 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:01:35am

re: #200 Mocking Jay

So you can understand what 47% of this nation had to hear about them.

Yes I do and if this is their driver to vote for President Obama I would think it is an excellent reason.

215 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:01:57am

And may I please post a reminder that Romney STILL hasn't withdrawn his endorsement of "Rape pregnancy is the Will of God" Richard Mourdock?

A vote for Romney is a vote for that disgusting and reprehensible garbage.

216 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:03am

I know you might not like this.

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.


But ya know what I'm on disability and I am sick of hearing the republicans calling me a deadbeat and taker. You don't know how much I wish I had the problem you have that I highlighted.

217 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:05am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Huntsman.

218 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:06am

re: #203 AK-47%

No, he is not LCR, just conservative in the sense that he is rather well established, has no tax deductions or deferrals of the type that families or home mortgage owners hold, and is open to theparty of lower taxes and small government.

But he is well versed in financial and social aspects and is seeing a Romney victory. He is not campaigning or trying to sway my vote, he knows how I have voted (absentee, and for whom, namely Obama).

his arguments were rather convincing, basically that Obama will just not be able to generate the turnout that buoyed him to victory in 2008.

Causes me some concern, and I was only guardedly optimistic to begin with about O's chances.

Yeah, I'm a little anxious about tomorrow. As I've said ad naseum, that people want to put back in place the party that got us in this mess, and then tried to obstruct Obama every step of the way, makes me nuts.

219 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:14am

There's also the unemployment figure lies from the GOP.

There's also the "gasoline was $1.99 a gallon" before Obama lie from the GOP.

220 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:41am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

huntsman

221 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:44am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Jon Huntsman, but he got dismissed as a commie and a traitor for speaking fluent Mandarin and for working with POTUS.

222 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:02:54am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Huntsman. Sadly, he was far too sane.

223 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:03:09am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Rick Santorum. Crazy as that fucker is, he would have been consistent in his message. And he would have made an Obama landslide much easier to predict.

224 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:03:13am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Abraham Lincoln.

Does it have to be someone living now? Does it have to be someone who actually ran in the primaries?

Jon Huntsman.

225 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:04:19am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Huntsman, maybe? Again, he's got the same mojo as Mitt: by comparison to the other freaks, he looks sane by comparison. For example, he did work in the Obama administration, but has the same caveman views on abortion as the other mouth breathers.

It's kind of like saying the Riddler is the least dangerous of Batman's enemies. He's still a crazed madman, but just not as nuts as the Joker or Two-Face.

226 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:04:22am

re: #224 wrenchwench

I'm just glad it's not Romney Vs. Barr.

227 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:05:15am

re: #198 DisturbedEma

I find the fact that so many people on both sides seem certain of victory, I'm not sure why that bothers me, maybe because I'm twisted in knots with anxiety? Where are all my other hand wringers? (not to be confused with pearl clutchers)

I am certain of nothing whatsoever. I simultaneously expect all sorts of things.

228 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:05:29am

re: #217 Decatur Deb

Huntsman.

Huntsman would have been a far more serious opponent for Obama. Foreign policy experience, no financial baggage to speak of, consistent demeanor of stability, and he believes in science. Actually, the possibility of him winning wouldn't have given me nearly as much butt-pucker as Romney does. I think Huntsman, conservative as he is, isn't batshit crazy or a megalomaniac like Romney.

229 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:05:29am

re: #209 Daniel Ballard

Except this time it leads to a correct conclusion.

Yeah, but that's mostly coincidence. If they evaluated a different set of statements, they could reverse those numbers.

230 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:05:40am

re: #224 wrenchwench

Abraham Lincoln.

Does it have to be someone living now? Does it have to be someone who actually ran in the primaries?

John Huntsman.

Huntsman could have won the general, but he wouldn't board the crazy train in the primaries.

231 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:06:11am

I liked Huntsman, too. I would have disagreed with him on some economic and fiscal policy, but he was at least a member of the reality-based universe.

But for pure entertainment value, I would want Herman Cain. Damn, that would have been fun.

232 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:06:21am

re: #216 Tigger2

I know you might not like this.

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.

But ya know what I'm on disability and I am sick of hearing the republicans calling me a deadbeat and taker. You don't know how much I wish I had the problem you have that I highlighted.

We each would vote our interests then which is fine. BTW I signed an approval form this morning for my company to hire 100 new people. We were fortunate not to have to lay off over the past five years but we have stayed flat and I had halted all hiring. So no amount of insults from you all will ruin my day!

233 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:06:30am

re: #214 Big Steve

Yes I do and if this is their driver to vote for President Obama I would think it is an excellent reason.

Well, I do appreciate the honesty. But if we can put your hurt fee-fees aside for a moment, do you think a President Romney would make better decisions for this country? Women's rights, foreign policy, hell even the deficit...

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:07:02am

Chris Christie could have given Obama a seirious run for his money, but he had the sense to keep clear of the 2012 clusterf*ck. Any party that could, even for a moment, consider Michelle Bachmann or Hermann Caine as serious candidates is seriously skewered.

235 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:07:28am
236 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:07:37am

re: #214 Big Steve

Obama has also not pilloried high-income people. He has occasionally said that high income people should go back to paying a larger share of taxes, as they did in the past.

237 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:07:46am

re: #227 Mostly sane, most of the time.

In everyday life I like that feeling, I embrace it- with so much on the line, the "take it as it comes" mentality gives way to "hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and as one on the 47% I'm not sure how to prepare for such an administration that Romney would establish

238 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:07:52am

re: #232 Big Steve

We each would vote our interests then which is fine.

There's absolutely nothing fine with voting purely for your own best interests.

239 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:09:18am

re: #232 Big Steve

We each would vote our interests then which is fine. BTW I signed an approval form this morning for my company to hire 100 new people. We were fortunate not to have to lay off over the past five years but we have stayed flat and I had halted all hiring. So no amount of insults from you all will ruin my day!

If you think my comment was an insult then you have a problem.

240 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:09:19am

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

I'm just glad it's not Romney Vs. Barr.

Roseanne? Bob?

Reminds me of my old boyfriend's stepfather checking in to a hotel in San Francisco.

"Your name sir?"

"Friedman."

"Would that be Dr. Newton, or Kinky?"

"Do I look like a Kinky to you?!?"

241 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:09:32am

re: #233 Mocking Jay

Well, I do appreciate the honesty. But if we can put your hurt fee-fees aside for a moment, do you think a President Romney would make better decisions for this country? Women's rights, foreign policy, hell even the deficit...

Hard to say really.......neither candidate this year jumped out at me as someone I could trust to make the right decision when the chips were down. I voted twice for Bill Clinton because for all his faults I felt viscerally that he would always make the right call for the country.

242 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:09:42am

re: #193 Big Steve

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.

I have to take back some of my "nice post" compliments. I completely overlooked that statement.

I'm glad for your success and all, but this "Obama hates rich people" horseshit? Seriously, you guys have to stop this. No one is out to get you. Please, for the good of our country, just stop spreading this idiocy.

243 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:02am
244 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:09am

re: #193 Big Steve

Upon his victory tomorrow, which likely will be narrow, I would hope he would make it his goal to try to heal some of the divides.

Heal some of the divides.

To the group of people who labeled him a "Kenyan usurper", and gave ideological cover to Birthers, Birchers, and neo-Secessionists who used the 2010 election (which was all about the economy!) to attempt to roll back women's rights by at least 50 years.

To a political group whose most historically respected and influential publication had no less than three of its writers/editors publicly identify with the white nationalist movement.

A better idea: Until the Republican Party does a public cleaning-house to marginalize the lunatic fringe, instead of having them write the party platform, I recommend that anyone remotely close to the political center should tell them to go straight to hell.

245 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:10am

Let me just repost this:

246 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:17am

re: #235 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Gaze In Awe Upon Fox News’s Six Perfect Words: ‘Crack-Smoking Illegal Alien Registered To Vote’

Meaningless, even if true. I would have registered him in FL. He is required only to list his driver's license or SSAN last 4, and self-certify that he is not a convicted felon/insane. Registration is not voter fraud.

247 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:27am

re: #193 Big Steve

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.

Could you please cite some examples of Obama 'pillorying' people in you income level, or inferring that they are greedy? And no, conservatives interpreting his statements as such will not be accepted, I want quotes straight from the horse's mouth.

248 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:35am

re: #239 Tigger2

If you think my comment was an insult then you have a problem.

No I should have been more clear......you comments were fine and good and thus I responded. Some others above just used spittle filled rants.....but yours was fine. Sorry should have been clearer.

249 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:47am

re: #237 DisturbedEma

Granted I'm female, and "thought" I was done with childbearing, having done more than my fair share. However, I have daughters and I do leave the house on a regular basis, so I'm trying to imagine this "rape gift of someone's god child" in the context beyond ass hat theoretical, along with the whole "ER health care plan for those uninsured" and the blind eye to climate change reality. . .

250 sagehen  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:11:47am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Jon Huntsman. Tim Pawlenty.

251 efuseakay  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:13:03am

re: #85 Kragar

Paul Ryan Says Obama Would Compromise 'Judeo-Christian Western Civilization Values'

Romney may not be a racist, but Ryan's a bigot.

252 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:13:20am

re: #250 sagehen

Tim Pawlenty.

Exactly the same sans-principles 'moderate' as Mitt Romney, with somehow even less charisma. My Minnesota friends are currently drowning their telephones in spittle in an attempt to make my fingers melt in righteous fury as I type up a list of Pawlenty horrors.

253 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:13:39am

We keep dancing around this fact-Better opposition makes a better administration. i say better, not stronger. I mean smarter, pragmatic and effective. We have seen this on both sides of the aisle before.

254 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:14:13am

re: #252 erik_t

Exactly the same sans-principles 'moderate' as Mitt Romney, with somehow even less charisma. My Minnesota friends are currently drowning their telephones in spittle in an attempt to make my fingers melt in righteous fury as I type up a list of Pawlenty horrors.

Seriously, bottle that man up and you have the cure for insomnia.

255 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:14:44am

re: #251 efuseakay

Translated "Obama would endanger me imposing my views of what comprises Judeo-Christian Ethics on America"

Romney may not be a racist, but Ryan's a bigot.

256 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:15:08am

re: #244 RadicalModerate

Heal some of the divides.

To the group of people who labeled him a "Kenyan usurper", and gave ideological cover to Birthers, Birchers, and neo-Secessionists who used the 2010 election (which was all about the economy!) to attempt to roll back women's rights by at least 50 years.

To a political group whose most historically respected and influential publication had no less than three of its writers/editors publicly identify with the white nationalist movement.

A better idea: Until the Republican Party does a public cleaning-house to marginalize the lunatic fringe, instead of having them write the party platform, I recommend that anyone remotely close to the political center should tell them to go straight to hell.

Your are totally correct and I wish I had stated this in my original post......the Republican side of the aisle has just as much if not more responsibility to try to heal the rifts. In Washington they go after each other hammer and tong and then go back to their offices and call each other "my friend"....not realizing that they are setting a much more disturbing tone to the rest of the country.

257 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:15:13am

Dutch treat.

258 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:16:05am

re: #252 erik_t

Exactly the same sans-principles 'moderate' as Mitt Romney, with somehow even less charisma. My Minnesota friends are currently drowning their telephones in spittle in an attempt to make my fingers melt in righteous fury as I type up a list of Pawlenty horrors.

Seriously, most of them are more upset about voting for Pawlenty than about voting for Ventura.

Let that sink in for a moment.

259 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:16:21am

re: #228 darthstar

Huntsman would have been a far more serious opponent for Obama. Foreign policy experience, no financial baggage to speak of, consistent demeanor of stability, and he believes in science. Actually, the possibility of him winning wouldn't have given me nearly as much butt-pucker as Romney does. I think Huntsman, conservative as he is, isn't batshit crazy or a megalomaniac like Romney.

Absolutely.

For all that he panders to some of the dumber ideas in the GOP (the Ryan plan, a lot of the social conservative stuff, etc.), Huntsman would have been a serious, difficult opponent for Obama. He has foreign policy experience and he could have run as a member of the administration that was criticizing his boss, and he could have done it in a very intelligent way.

Mercifully, the idiots and bigots that make up the GOP base dismissed Huntsman as a RINO and traitor because he speaks another language and he had the gall to work with POTUS. They blew their chance to offer up a serious candidate who could have elevated this campaign season and made it a real debate.

260 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:16:34am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Do you mean better for the country or more likely to be elected?

261 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:16:54am

You gotta hand it to those poor bastards at Fox...they try...they really do try.

262 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:17:18am

re: #260 jamesfirecat

Do you mean better for the country or more likely to be elected?

If it's the former, Huntsman. The latter, no one.

263 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:17:53am

re: #261 darthstar

You gotta hand it to those poor bastards at Fox...they try...they really do try.

After airing Romney's entire speech today, Fox News directs viewers to their website to see full Obama speech:

Fully in keeping with the guidelines promulgated by the Ministry of Fairness and Balance

264 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:18:21am

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sheesh, funny how selective it seems, the process of deciding which biblical values to cherish, and which to demonize. . .oh wait, I mean ignore or spin. . .

265 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:18:24am

re: #261 darthstar

You gotta hand it to those poor bastards at Fox...they try...they really do try.

[Embedded content]

I'm sure it will be an edited version of Obama's speech. lol

266 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:19:14am

re: #259 Lidane

Absolutely.

For all that he panders to some of the dumber ideas in the GOP (the Ryan plan, a lot of the social conservative stuff, etc.), Huntsman would have been a serious, difficult opponent for Obama. He has foreign policy experience and he could have run as a member of the administration that was criticizing his boss, and he could have done it in a very intelligent way.

Mercifully, the idiots and bigots that make up the GOP base dismissed Huntsman as a RINO and traitor because he speaks another language and he had the gall to work with POTUS. They blew their chance to offer up a serious candidate who could have elevated this campaign season and made it a real debate.

Speaking Chinese would seem to be much more valuable to a US president now than speaking French. Imagine if Romney could yell "Currency Manipulators!!!" in Chinese on his first day in office.

267 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:19:25am

re: #263 AK-47%

As ordered by the Handicapper General, Diana Moon Glompers. . .wait, was that too much:)

268 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:20:05am

LMFAO!

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

"If we lose this election there is only one explanation — demographics. ... If I hear anybody say it was because Romney wasn’t conservative enough I’m going to go nuts. We’re not losing 95 percent of African-Americans and two-thirds of Hispanics and voters under 30 because we’re not being hard-ass enough," - Senator Lindsey Graham.

269 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:21:23am

re: #267 DisturbedEma

As ordered by the Handicapper General, Diana Moon Glompers. . .wait, was that too much:)

I was just thinking about that story this morning actually...

Well really just a line for it that I was going to use in a story of my own that has nothing at all to do with the original work.

"Play well and I will make you dukes and earls..."

(Or at least that is how my memory remembers it)

270 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:21:23am

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

271 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:21:35am

re: #256 Big Steve

Your are totally correct and I wish I had stated this in my original post......the Republican side of the aisle has just as much if not more responsibility to try to heal the rifts. In Washington they go after each other hammer and tong and then go back to their offices and call each other "my friend"....not realizing that they are setting a much more disturbing tone to the rest of the country.

Honestly, Steve, try "Most of the responsibility". High ranking GOP leaders, right out of the damn gate, vowed that taking Obama down was their primary goal (most famously Mitch McConnell's "one term president" vow).

Again, this is my problem with "moderate" Republicans. You guys just soft peddle or ignore the rabid multi-ton elephant in the House chambers.The fact you're semi-acknowledging it is nice, but it's such a low bar to hurdle, an ant would have a hard time crawling under it.

Your party is broken, dominated by people who would rather torch the country than try to work with the opposition. What is it going to take for the "moderates" to admit to this?

272 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:21:50am

This just in, my ass hat ex is even voting for Obama. . .and he voted for Walker twice. . .hmmmmm not sure how that computes, but eh

273 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:21:52am

re: #268 Mocking Jay

LMFAO!

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

The sooner the "angry white male" demographic shuffles off this mortal coil, the better off America and the world will be.

274 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:22:23am

re: #270 Daniel Ballard

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

He seems very likable, intelligent, competent and sincere. I would be afraid of him in a general election.

275 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:22:23am

re: #270 Daniel Ballard

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

I have a lot of problems with Huntsman, but I believe in his dedication to service.

He at least acknowledges scientific reality, even if he ignores the obvious fact that we also need to respond to it.

276 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:22:35am

Good Luck America! Tuesday is a Big F****** deal.

When limits begin..Vision ends

277 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:23:02am

re: #271 Mattand

Scorched Earth Republicans- scary that it can one day be literal

278 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:23:05am

re: #270 Daniel Ballard

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

Wait a minute. A national open primary would have had a much wider range of choices. Huntsman was an outlier for the Republicans in this primary season, but an open primary would be a different thing entirely.

279 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:23:22am

Incoherence is about all these guys have left.

280 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:23:23am

re: #271 Mattand

Dude, well said, dude.

Image: tumblr_mcqnn4RZJj1qzh0ju.gif

281 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:23:55am

re: #263 AK-47%

Fully in keeping with the guidelines promulgated by the Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I see stuff like that and get flashbacks to Doonesbury during the Carter Administration where he had Carter establish a Cabinet-level position for the Secretary of Symbolism.

282 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:24:23am

re: #281 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hah, those were great. The statues were hilarious.

283 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:24:34am

re: #280 Obdicut

Dude, well said, dude.

Image: tumblr_mcqnn4RZJj1qzh0ju.gif

Rose... bud...

EDIT: Wait. OMG, he was referring about the SLED!!!

284 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:24:53am

The Now Playing album display is now back. You probably didn't even know it was missing.

This was actually one of the trickier things to redesign.

285 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:25:02am

re: #273 Interesting Times

The sooner the "angry white male" demographic shuffles off this mortal coil, the better off America and the world will be.

I've been angry since Nov, 1963.

286 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:25:21am

re: #274 Mocking Jay

He seems very likable, intelligent, competent and sincere. I would be afraid of him in a general election.

Oh, and I have a crush on one of his daughters that's almost a little creepy but she's incredibly cute.

288 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:25:32am

re: #270 Daniel Ballard

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

Gross. No thanks.

“The scientific community owes us more in terms of a better description of explanation about what might lie beneath all of this. But there’s not information right now to formulate policies in terms of addressing it over all, primarily because it’s a global issue,” the former Utah governor said Tuesday at an appearance at the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Least bugfuck crazy != good choice

289 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:26:24am

re: #270 Daniel Ballard

Well if this board is any indication, Huntsman could have won a national open primary.
Huh.

Speaks fluent Mandarin.
Foreign policy experience out the yazoo.
State governance experience.
Proof that Obama is a bipartisan boss, since Huntsman is a Republican.
Debate would have been elevated over the dreck that Romney has offered.
Little, if any, financial baggage unlike Mitt.
Able to offer serious, credible answers to questions.

Yes, he panders to the economic illiterates and the socon idiots in the GOP, but Huntsman would have been able to transcend that and make a legitimate case for working across party lines and with people that he otherwise disagrees with.

290 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:26:26am

re: #287 Kragar

Apple paid less than 2 percent tax on overseas profits last year

And they pass the savings down to us!

Or not.

291 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:26:28am

re: #285 Decatur Deb

I've been angry since Nov, 1963.

Angry conservative white male demographic. In other words, Fox news/limbaugh fan base.

Better? :)

292 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:26:58am

Arizona nonprofit admits laundering millions for out-of-state Republican groups

An Arizona-based nonprofit disclosed Monday that it laundered $11 million from pro-Republican groups and sent it to a campaign committee in California that’s fighting a proposed tax increase designed to support public education.

Phoenix-based Americans for Responsible Leadership (ARL) didn’t give up their donor list without a fight, however: after an official complaint by advocacy group Common Cause triggered an investigation by the California Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC), ARL appealed their case all the way up to the California Supreme Court. They lost that case this weekend, then opted to turn over the requested information rather than fight it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

“They were attempting to hide the true source of their funds, which makes it harder for California voters to evaluate the ads that they’re seeing paid for by these funds,” Derek Cressman, vice president at Common Cause, told Raw Story on Monday.

293 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:27:02am

re: #273 Interesting Times

The sooner the "angry white male" demographic shuffles off this mortal coil, the better off America and the world will be.

I told this to a grumpy old coot in a grocery store in '08.

Oh, he mad.

294 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:27:13am

re: #287 Kragar

Apple paid less than 2 percent tax on overseas profits last year

Slackers
That's what is wrong with this country right now companies doing that kind of shit.

295 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:27:47am
296 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:27:51am

re: #292 Kragar

There is tons of this shit, too. The reporting rules make it easy for them to get away with it. This group fucked up by staying in existence too long.

298 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:28:44am

Zedushka just texted me that he locked himself out of the house and I don't get home for another two hours.

299 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:28:45am

re: #213 garhighway

Question of the day: which Republican candidate would have made a better nominee than Mitt?

Out of the people who actually ran in the primaries? John Huntsman and Gary Johnson were pretty much it, and neither of them got over low-single digits due to the fact that the ideological base despised both, for varying reasons. Romney, honestly only got the nomination because of (a) his money, and (b) everyone else in the field was certifiably nuts.

300 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:28:50am
301 I Am Kreniigh!  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:29:21am

re: #13 Gus

Propane, propane...

Youtube Video
302 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:29:33am

re: #291 Interesting Times

Angry conservative white male demographic. In other words, Fox news/limbaugh fan base.

Better? :)

Not good to wish anybody would shuffle off their mortal coils, tho....

303 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:29:47am

re: #286 Mocking Jay

Oh, and I have a crush on one of his daughters that's almost a little creepy but she's incredibly cute.

The lot of them are fine, and that's all I'll have to say about that.

304 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:30:41am

re: #287 Kragar

Apple paid less than 2 percent tax on overseas profits last year

Stop pillorying Apple!!!!1

/

305 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:30:44am

re: #298 Sheila Broflovski

Zedushka just texted me that he locked himself out of the house and I don't get home for another two hours.

I hope he has a blanket and a book.

306 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:30:56am

I filled out my ballot last night...voted for a couple of different tax increases - one of them affecting me directly for the next 10 to 12 years...an increase targeting people making > $250K (our joint income comes out to 286 - I'm not complaining).

307 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:31:35am

re: #299 RadicalModerate

Out of the people who actually ran in the primaries? John Huntsman and Gary Johnson were pretty much it, and neither of them got over low-single digits due to the fact that the ideological base despised both, for varying reasons. Romney, honestly only got the nomination because of (a) his money, and (b) everyone else in the field was certifiably nuts.

Gary Johnson is a nut. I'm not going into particulars until Wednesday, though.

308 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:31:48am

re: #306 darthstar

I filled out my ballot last night...voted for a couple of different tax increases - one of them affecting me directly for the next 10 to 12 years...an increase targeting people making > $250K (our joint income comes out to 286 - I'm not complaining).

Good to hear that you can look past Obama's insults that were directed at you...

309 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:31:51am

re: #291 Interesting Times

Angry conservative white male demographic. In other words, Fox news/limbaugh fan base.

Better? :)

There is a great old SF flick in which the aliens who want our stuff give us weapons to exterminate ourselves. We find out we can set them to only wipe out all our assholes. Let's go with "assholes".

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

310 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:32:16am

...

311 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:32:53am

re: #309 Decatur Deb

There is a great old SF flick in which the aliens who want our stuff give us weapons to exterminate ourselves. We find out we can set them to only wipe out all our assholes. Let's go with "assholes".

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

You would die quickly if you didn't have an asshole.

312 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:33:11am

And I just found out that my original polling place has had power restored and I'll be able to vote there instead of an alternative location. That'll actually add to the confusion since the town has been telling folks to use the alternative location. Such are the perils of conducting the election in a disaster area, but it's a peril that can be overcome with a bit of patience.

313 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:33:35am

re: #311 Sheila Broflovski

You would die quickly if you didn't have an asshole.

It's Alabama. I know where to go to find one.

314 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:33:57am

re: #298 Sheila Broflovski

Zedushka just texted me that he locked himself out of the house and I don't get home for another two hours.

Tell him to download Angry Birds and/or Cut the Rope. He won't even notice the time passing him by.

315 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:34:49am

re: #293 erik_t

I told this to a grumpy old coot in a grocery store in '08.

Oh, he mad.

Well, he was angry to start with.

316 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:35:12am

re: #308 Mocking Jay

Good to hear that you can look past Obama's insults that were directed at you...

President Obama has never insulted me...directly or indirectly. He's said that people need to pay their fair share. I see taxes as the rent we pay to live in this great country of ours. My rent is higher than others, but I also benefit from a comfortable standard of living. So long as my taxes aren't used to hurt others (war, for example) and they're used to help people (domestic / foreign aid, infrastructure, etc.) I'm okay with it.

317 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:35:38am

re: #310 darthstar

...

Hm...tweet twidn't.

318 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:36:01am

re: #311 Sheila Broflovski

You would die quickly if you didn't have an asshole.

Two guys were trying to win the "Biggest Pig contest" at the county fair. So they stuck a cork in the pig, and left the cork there for 3 months. The pig got bigger and bigger and bigger.

They won the contest, but were afraid to pull the cork out. So they trained a monkey to do the job, training him with a cork and bottle.

The day finally came to relieve the pig. The monkey pulled the cork out and the pig exploded, pig manure exploding all over the room, knocking the men to the ground. The monkey was killed, and Both men ended up in the hospital.

One man couldn't stop laughing in his hospital bed.

The other man, "Why are you laughing? I don't remember a thing".

His friend answered, "You should have seen the monkey trying to put the cork BACK IN".

319 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:37:53am

re: #313 Decatur Deb

It's Alabama. I know where to go to find one.

Given that it's mid-November, I'd hazard to to guess that your answer will involve either Tuscaloosa or Auburn.

320 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:38:24am

re: #314 Lidane

Tell him to download Angry Birds and/or Cut the Rope. He won't even notice the time passing him by.

Checking out Cut the Rope...21 megs! Big app for a phone. But I've got 15 gigs free space...so I'll give it a try.

321 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:38:50am

re: #292 Kragar

Arizona nonprofit admits laundering millions for out-of-state Republican groups

re: #297 wrenchwench

Page it!

More on the story:

Trying to avoid an audit, American for Responsible Leadership this morning admitted that the $11 million it sunk into two California campaigns wasn’t really from the Arizona PAC.

Instead it came through a "daisy chain" of political PACS – all run by GOP operative and Koch brothers pal Sean Noble.

And all created to hide the true source of the money.

[...]

322 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:39:59am

re: #319 RadicalModerate

Given that it's mid-November, I'd hazard to to guess that your answer will involve either Tuscaloosa or Auburn.

Auburn isn't an asshole this year. It's a black hole.

Woof.

323 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:40:34am

re: #301 I Am Kreniigh!

Propane, propane...

[Embedded content]

Propane and Propane accessories

Youtube Video

Thought it was accessories.

324 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:42:25am

re: #302 wrenchwench

Not good to wish anybody would shuffle off their mortal coils, tho....

Just being a realist :) And I confess I do get irritated by well-off, self-absorbed, self-pitying members of that group glibly dismissing the concerns of women as a "spittle-filled rant". Particularly after I just finish reading something like this:

For rape survivors, Mourdock’s remark was an(other) attack on consent

Sometimes I still flinch when I’m touched a certain way, even if it’s the loving embrace of my husband. I can’t stand to watch TV shows where rape is the central plot line. Even some seasons of the year are harder for me. Those of us who are sexual assault survivors call these triggers. We spend our lives — the lives we lead after the attack — avoiding and managing these triggers.

A congressional debate shouldn’t have to come with a trigger warning. But apparently, Richard, yours should.

325 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:45:19am
326 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:45:57am

Heh:

327 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:47:16am

re: #326 Interesting Times

Heh:

[Embedded content]

Related:

re: #313 Decatur Deb

It's Alabama. I know where to go to find one.

;)

328 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:47:52am

David Frum ain't the most popular writer around here. But he makes some good points today.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Americans worry more about voter fraud than do voters in other countries, because they are the only country without a reliable system of national identification.

In no other country, including federal systems such as Germany, Canada and Australia, does the citizen's opportunity to vote depend on the affluence and competence of his or her local government.
Lines were lengthy in St. Louis City because in the United States, almost uniquely, local governments choose how voting is cast and counted. People who live in localities with less capable governments, such as St. Louis, will face greater delay and difficulty in casting their vote.

When local Democratic officials saw themselves disadvantaged by the existing rules, they appealed to a judge for special treatment for its (likely) voters -- and only for those voters. (Good news: In Missouri, circuit judges are appointed by the governor and then confirmed in office by nonpartisan vote. In many states, however, judges are themselves elected in partisan elections.)

The other party demanded that the existing rules be upheld, and the case was litigated on the fly, ending in a weird compromise that only failed to become a national scandal because the events in Florida were so much more dramatic.

In any other democracy, voters nationwide would have cast their votes on the same kind of balloting equipment, subject to the same rules.

The parties would have had a minimal role in supervising the election, and certainly would not have been allowed to ask for rule changes as the vote occurred.

The United States is an exceptional nation, but it is not always exceptional for good. The American voting system too is an exception: It is the most error-prone, the most susceptible to fraud, the most vulnerable to unfairness and one of the least technologically sophisticated on earth. After the 2000 fiasco, Americans resolved to do better. Isn't it past time to make good on that resolution?

329 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:48:07am

Well here we are one more day to go. Looks good for Obama and for Kaine here in Virginia.

330 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:48:20am

re: #260 jamesfirecat

Do you mean better for the country or more likely to be elected?

More competitive. And could have still had a shot at getting nominated.

331 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:48:51am

I do hope this is a genuine quote, because if it isn't, it ought to be:

332 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:49:31am

Just waiting for someone to suggest that our electoral process would be better administered by the private sector...

333 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:50:02am

re: #326 Interesting Times

re: #327 Lidane

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the little people....

334 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:50:04am

re: #331 Interesting Times

I do hope this is a genuine quote, because if it isn't, it ought to be:

[Embedded content]

I thought that was a Biden quote from the White House Correspondents Dinner a couple years back.

335 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:50:11am

re: #330 garhighway

More competitive. And could have still had a shot at getting nominated.

I got nothing then.

336 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:51:08am

This might be interesting.

Here's the article: Abbas Stays Put On Refugees

337 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:52:43am

re: #328 Daniel Ballard

I don't have any problem with a national standard of voting machines, places, etc. We can mandate that churches are not acceptable polling places, too. The states rights guys will, in general, though, object to federal standards.

It's weird that he ignores the incredibly low amount of voter fraud in the US when writing that. It weakens his point for him to just ignore that.

Also, do you know what he means by this?

When local Democratic officials saw themselves disadvantaged by the existing rules, they appealed to a judge for special treatment for its (likely) voters -- and only for those voters.

338 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:53:28am

re: #242 Mattand

I have to take back some of my "nice post" compliments. I completely overlooked that statement.

I'm glad for your success and all, but this "Obama hates rich people" horseshit? Seriously, you guys have to stop this. No one is out to get you. Please, for the good of our country, just stop spreading this idiocy.

Wait! You don't think that raising the top marginal rate by a few points isn't class warfare and the end of civilization as we know it?

Commie.

339 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:53:54am

When DC Says Justice League of America, They Really Mean America

In a move that should make the '90s comic market weep with jealousy, DC has announced that Justice League of America #1, due out in February, will have 52 different variant covers -- one for each of the 50 states, as well as Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico.

Murika!

340 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:55:16am

re: #339 Mocking Jay

When DC Says Justice League of America, They Really Mean America

Murika!

Don't forget 52 different styles of polybag!

341 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:55:19am

LOL, newsmax

342 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:56:13am

re: #339 Mocking Jay

What about:

Guam, the Marianas, the Virgin Islands, and Samoa? Plus a bunch of other tiny islands and stuff.

343 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:56:26am

re: #328 Daniel Ballard

David Frum ain't the most popular writer around here. But he makes some good points today.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

He's pretty vague on that St. Louis scenario. What 'rules' is he tallking about? With no backstory, it's pretty much apocryphal.

Honestly, I do not trust Frum in the least since he endorsed 'Vote for me or the economy gets it' last week.

344 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:56:36am

re: #341 Kragar

[Embedded content]

LOL, newsmax

God, I can't wait to see the look on this guy's face when Obama wins reelection.

345 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:56:40am

re: #339 Mocking Jay

When DC Says Justice League of America, They Really Mean America

Murika!

I remember when marvel first started releasing comics with multiple covers and it pissed me off. Basically trying to get collectors to buy multiple copies of the same book. DC is taking it to a whole new level here, I wonder how many people will buy all 52 copies.

346 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:57:06am

re: #342 Obdicut

What about:

Guam, the Marianas, the Virgin Islands, and Samoa? Plus a bunch of other tiny islands and stuff.

Pfft. Pretty sure someone somewhere is already bitching about PR being included.

347 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:57:23am

re: #337 Obdicut
I think he meant that the Dems were also were trying to exploit the rules or system for their own gain. But that's just my take.

My overall takeaway is that these are his best points today.

In any other democracy, voters nationwide would have cast their votes on the same kind of balloting equipment, subject to the same rules.

The parties would have had a minimal role in supervising the election, and certainly would not have been allowed to ask for rule changes as the vote occurred.

348 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:57:27am

re: #343 makeitstop

Honestly, I do not trust Frum in the least since he endorsed 'Vote for me or the economy gets it' last week.

That was a weird, weird article, man.

349 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:57:49am

re: #345 danarchy

I remember when marvel first started releasing comics with multiple covers and it pissed me off. Basically trying to get collectors to buy multiple copies of the same book. DC is taking it to a whole new level here, I wonder how many people will buy all 52 copies.

Dunno, don't care. I don't read all that much of them now, and when I do I do it digtally. They include all of the variants anyway.

350 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:57:56am

Must see!

Romney Makes His Case

351 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:58:11am

re: #346 Mocking Jay

Pfft. Pretty sure someone somewhere is already bitching about PR being included.

The Jets are kinda pissed.

352 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:58:39am

re: #347 Daniel Ballard

Sure, I'm fine with national federal standards for voting machines and rules. But again, I really doubt the states rights people are. Edit: Found constitutional justification for it, though.

353 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:58:46am

re: #341 Kragar

[Embedded content]

LOL, newsmax

I fully expect to wake up Wednesday and read articles discussing who Romney's cabinet will be -- ignoring that Obama got over 300 Electoral Votes.

Mass dementia is the only explanation I can think of.

354 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:58:48am

I guess I have crazy and greedy in my family to. from my FB page.

Who Should I Vote For? 2012 Obama vs. Romney Quiz
www.votehelp.org
Find out which 2012 Presidential candidate - Obama, Romney - shares your views most closely by taking this quiz - candidate calculator comparison

Me: Took the quiz it wouldn't give me my results. But I don't need them I have already voted for Obama.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Niece: Anybody who wants to live off of other people doing the work would vote for Obama!
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Me: You seem to forget I'm on disability and Romney wants to cut my medicare and SS disability checks, thanks for calling me a taker I see what you think of me now.

355 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:58:59am

re: #343 makeitstop

Sometimes good points come from people who have been wrong.

356 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:59:01am

re: #348 Obdicut

That was a weird, weird article, man.

Felt like it was written with a gun in the mouth.

357 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:59:20am

re: #344 HappyWarrior

God, I can't wait to see the look on this guy's face when Obama wins reelection.

His Twitter feed will be hilarious. I can't wait.

Should POTUS win a second term, I will be gleefully reading all the wingnut Twitter feeds for the lulz.

358 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:00:25pm

re: #357 Lidane

His Twitter feed will be hilarious. I can't wait.

Should POTUS win a second term, I will be gleefully reading all the wingnut Twitter feeds for the lulz.

I'm looking forward to the excuses for one. Because you know the "We weren't conservative enough" line is coming.

359 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:01:00pm

re: #356 erik_t

Felt like it was written with a gun in the mouth.

Sour grapes I think.

HAVA needs to be fairly implemented. If the states want to run the state stuff fine with me. But national elections need national standards that prevail all the way from urban crowds to rural post office boxes.

360 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:01:35pm

re: #339 Mocking Jay

When DC Says Justice League of America, They Really Mean America

Murika!

I think we need a fairness standard. Every third superhero that is male needs to show his abs, and every fourth one needs to show at least a quarter of his chest.

Seriously, if you're going to fight someone, why would you bare the part of your body where all your vital organs reside?

361 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:02:07pm

re: #350 Gus

Must see!

Romney Makes His Case

Okay, we need to stop drawing TVs as they were back in 1985...

362 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:03:41pm

re: #361 Mocking Jay

Okay, we need to stop drawing TVs as they were back in 1985...

1965. And it matches the policies on display therein.

363 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:03:55pm

re: #360 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think we need a fairness standard. Every third superhero that is mail needs to show his abs, and every fourth one needs to show at least a quarter of his chest.

Seriously, if you're going to fight someone, why would you bare the part of your body where all your vital organs reside?

If you happen to be mostly invulnerable a shirt isn't going to make much difference. You would just end up replacing lots of clothes after a run in with the bad guys.

364 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:03:59pm

re: #361 Mocking Jay

Okay, we need to stop drawing TVs as they were back in 1985...

Looks more like a Brontovision set to me.

365 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:05:24pm

re: #362 wrenchwench

1965. And it matches the policies on display therein.

Image: upFlintstoneTV.jpg

366 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:06:25pm

re: #363 danarchy

If you happen to be mostly invulnerable a shirt isn't going to make much difference. You would just end up replacing lots of clothes after a run in with the bad guys.

Well, in that case you could just fight nekkid and save on the clothing bills. Plus, it would distract your enemies.

367 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:07:01pm

What can you, Eric Cartman, have in your room, that can change the election. Heh.

368 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:07:17pm

re: #365 Gus

Image: upFlintstoneTV.jpg

Is that Romney and Ryan on the couch?

369 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:08:38pm

re: #367 lawhawk

What can you, Eric Cartman, have in your room, that can change the election. Heh.

Comedy Central Video
370 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:09:04pm

re: #343 makeitstop

Did you read the linked article?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

371 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:09:32pm

Election night supplies-

Red or white? Fuck it, both

Clear or Amber?- Fuck it, both

Salty or chocolate- Fuck it, both

Internet or Network- Fuck it, both

Zumba class AM or PM- yup, fuck it, neither

372 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:10:32pm

re: #363 danarchy

I can relate- The Hulk

373 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:11:19pm

(The Root) -- Amazing Fact About the Negro No. 4: Who was the first black president in North America?

That would be Barack Obama, right? While most of us have assumed this, and while this has been widely reported in the media, it turns out that this is not true. As a matter of fact, the first black president in North America was a man named Vicente Guerrero, and he became the second president of the Republic of Mexico in 1829. (The first black head of state in the Caribbean was Jean-Jacques Dessalines, who became the first governor-general of the Independent Republic of Haiti in 1804.)

In other words, Mexico had its own Barack Obama 54 years before Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, and fully 179 years before we did! And the comparison with Lincoln is not an idle one: Guerrero, like Lincoln, has been immortalized for abolishing slavery in Mexico.

[...]

On September 16, 1829 -- Mexico's Independence Day -- Guerrero abolished slavery throughout the country, which has led many historians to refer to him as the "Abraham Lincoln of Mexico," though Lincoln more properly should be referred to as "the Vicente Guerrero of the United States." (And this action, by the way, was part of the reason that Texans fought to secede from Mexico a few years later, in 1836; remember the Alamo? That's in part what Davy Crockett and his compatriots were fighting about in that Disney series we watched as children, but Disney left out the role of slavery!)

[...]

Go read it all. Nice paintings are depicted.

374 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:12:41pm

Oh boy

Youtube Video
375 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:14:01pm
376 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:14:27pm
377 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:14:36pm

Tongue slip?? GOP?? Ewwww

378 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:14:51pm

Remember, remember,
The sixth of November...

379 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:15:24pm

re: #374 Kragar

Oh boy

[Embedded content]

I have a (fever) dream...

380 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:15:54pm

re: #374 Kragar

Oh boy

[Embedded content]

[Vomit]

Thanks God we don't have people that believe in weird things like they do in other countries.

//

381 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:17:28pm

Election night plans-
Anything but hanging on every repeated word and breathless reportage. Love to see the result, really not wanting to hear the pundits spin and stutter.

382 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:18:16pm

re: #374 Kragar

Ack!!!

383 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:18:28pm

re: #370 Daniel Ballard

Did you read the linked article?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I see nothing there that backs up Frum's assertion that they tried to change the rules for Democrats only, except the charge made by Republicans that it would favor Dems.

Frum is being disingenuous, if the Times story is what he's going on.

384 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:18:52pm

re: #381 Daniel Ballard

See my shopping list, it may help you you simply can't stay away:)

385 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:18:56pm

re: #382 DisturbedEma

Ack!!!

Disturbing.

386 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:19:23pm

re: #298 Sheila Broflovski

Zedushka just texted me that he locked himself out of the house and I don't get home for another two hours.

I keep a key stashed in the neighbor's back yard

387 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:19:53pm

re: #385 Gus

Indeed, had no idea when I created this user name 4 or so years ago that it would become a way of life. . .:)

388 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:20:44pm

re: #382 DisturbedEma

Ack!!!

"We are the United States under Jesus Christ"

Um, no.

389 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:20:45pm

re: #386 AK-47%

I keep a key stashed in the neighbor's back yard

Your neighbor's backyard would be kind of far away for us (you are in Germany, right?)

Zedushka said he will go over to the synagogue we attend on Shabbat and use their library until I come over to take him home.

390 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:21:00pm

re: #374 Kragar

Oh boy

[Embedded content]

It's like a Def Comedy Jam, only nuts instead of funny.

391 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:22:00pm

re: #388 Kragar

The whole Anti Christ preamble set the stage. . .shudder!

392 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:22:29pm

re: #390 makeitstop

Def Comedy Nut Jam?

393 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:23:17pm

re: #381 Daniel Ballard

Election night plans-
Anything but hanging on every repeated word and breathless reportage. Love to see the result, really not wanting to hear the pundits spin and stutter.

For me:

--Bottle of wine
--LGF open in one Chrome tab
--HootSuite open in another
--Music streaming on Spotify

I'm avoiding the networks and TV altogether. I'd rather get the play-by-play online.

394 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:23:23pm

re: #391 DisturbedEma

The whole Anti Christ preamble set the stage. . .shudder!

Cindy Jacobs screaming really made it for me.

"PRAYPRAYPRAYPRAY!"

395 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:24:08pm

re: #394 Kragar

Just make sure it is to the "right" God!!! I added in thought. . .

396 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:24:11pm

re: #337 Obdicut

I don't have any problem with a national standard of voting machines, places, etc. We can mandate that churches are not acceptable polling places, too. The states rights guys will, in general, though, object to federal standards.

It's weird that he ignores the incredibly low amount of voter fraud in the US when writing that. It weakens his point for him to just ignore that.

Also, do you know what he means by this?

As I advocated earlier, let the Federal government institute standards and guidelines for federal elections: Presidential and Congressional. The states can run all elections below that level as they see fit, but will be compelled to adapt their guidelines to fit the federal standard.

I feel the that the federal government has the right to demand that votes are fairly, consistently and transparently recorded, counted and collected.

397 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:25:33pm

re: #393 Lidane

For me:

--Bottle of wine
--LGF open in one Chrome tab
--HootSuite open in another
--Music streaming on Spotify

I'm avoiding the networks and TV altogether. I'd rather get the play-by-play online.

I have a date. My vote will be cast; the world can keep turning without me.

398 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:26:15pm

I am praying there is no politically driven violence tomorrow, I really am.

399 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:27:24pm

re: #395 DisturbedEma

Just make sure it is to the "right" God!!! I added in thought. . .

"Crom, I do not pray to you often, I have no tongue for it."

400 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:27:44pm

re: #398 dragonfire1981

I am praying there is no politically driven violence tomorrow, I really am.

It's not tomorrow I'm worried about. It's next week, next month, next year.

401 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:28:05pm
402 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:28:58pm

re: #398 dragonfire1981

I am praying there is no politically driven violence tomorrow, I really am.

The threshhold has really been lowered over the past four years...

403 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:30:13pm

re: #399 Kragar

re: #393 Lidane

"Grant me revenge" (As I exercise my right to vote)

Add- "If you don't help me now, I say Fuck you Jabu, I do it myself"

404 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:30:52pm

re: #403 DisturbedEma

Lidane- only 1 bottle? :)

405 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:31:18pm

re: #402 AK-47%

Agreed

406 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:31:19pm
407 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:31:32pm

re: #403 DisturbedEma

re: #393 Lidane

"Grant me revenge" (As I exercise my right to vote)

Add- "If you don't help me now, I say Fuck you Jabu, I do it myself"

Youtube Video
408 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:31:41pm

Noonan: 'The Vibrations are right'.

Wow.

409 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:32:27pm

re: #404 DisturbedEma

Lidane- only 1 bottle? :)

OK, fine. Two bottles. One for the early evening, and one for when the election is called.

I'll either be pleasantly drunk and celebrating or I'll be drowning my sorrows. Either way, I will have a wine hangover at work on Wednesday. Haha.

410 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:32:31pm

re: #407 Kragar

So wrong, it's right:)

411 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:33:32pm

re: #354 Tigger2

I guess I have crazy and greedy in my family to. from my FB page.

Who Should I Vote For? 2012 Obama vs. Romney Quiz
www.votehelp.org
Find out which 2012 Presidential candidate - Obama, Romney - shares your views most closely by taking this quiz - candidate calculator comparison

Me: Took the quiz it wouldn't give me my results. But I don't need them I have already voted for Obama.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Niece: Anybody who wants to live off of other people doing the work would vote for Obama!
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Me: You seem to forget I'm on disability and Romney wants to cut my medicare and SS disability checks, thanks for calling me a taker I see what you think of me now.

And what pisses me off about this exchange is her Husband is a preacher and they have their own church. where is the compassion for the sick and poor, because personally I don't care what anyone thinks of me. lol

412 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:35:26pm

A growing list of buildings declared uninhabitable by NYC DOB due to #Sandy damage. Even though ConEd could get power back in the area, building infrastructure was damaged - utilities, heat, hot water, etc., that requires repair or replacement and takes time.

413 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:36:46pm

re: #383 makeitstop

I see nothing there that backs up Frum's assertion that they tried to change the rules for Democrats only, except the charge made by Republicans that it would favor Dems.

Frum is being disingenuous, if the Times story is what he's going on.

Seriously. Why isn't it an axiom that anyone who shows up during polling hours gets to vote, regardless of the length of the line? To frame this as a Dem. vs. GOP issue is just crazy.

414 Coracle  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:36:57pm

re: #193 Big Steve

Steve, while your barn door is closed, I'm confident you'll have your reasons for voting Romney proved wrong whether he wins or loses. I don't buy his business experience as a plus for running this country. I think your taking personally Obama's statements about your wealth demographic is short-sighted. Perhaps you are not greedy (though grudging a couple extra hundred bucks if you earn over $250k or a few thousand if you earn over a $1mil doesn't sound exactly benevolent), but many prominent - and loud - members of your wealth demographic are precisely, definitionally, greedy, and that's something you should have long recognized.

I think his own business (and governing) decision-making record makes the opposite argument. Romney's 'stance' on space exploration is a non-stance. He doesn't give a damn, and the anti-science Republican party would dilute or kill any new damn he might chose to give. I don't buy for one minute that NASA's budget is going to look any rosier under a Romney administration than an Obama second term.

415 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:37:39pm

Hahahaha:

416 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:38:25pm
417 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:39:01pm

re: #4 Mostly sane, most of the time.

The Red Cross has been telling people for YEARS that they need to plan on being on their own for a few days after any disaster, and that means having emergency supplies in place and ready. Yes, there is nothing you can do to prepare for having your entire house destroyed, other than evacuating, but everyone else can have canned goods, batteries, and water ready for an emergency, which would free up emergency help for those who really were left without anything.

They used to say seventy-two hours.

After Katrina, I upped that estimate considerably.

418 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:39:33pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

They used to say seventy-two hours.

After Katrina, I upped that estimate considerably.

Yeah, you should probably count on a week.

419 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:40:27pm

re: #13 Gus

Propane and propane products.
-- Hank Hill

Propane ACCESSORIES.

420 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:42:34pm

Lemmy from Motorhead weighs in:

"I would have said America wasn't ready for (an African-American president). And I don't think they were, because they're trying to drag him down now. I mean, the poor fucker's only just gotten rid of all that George Bush shit that he left, or is trying to. And he's being stonewalled by the fucking Congress all the time. I don't know how he's gotten anything done. They should be glad. I mean the alternative is Mitt Romney. Please, please don't vote for Mitt Romney. Fuck him. Repeal abortion law is the first thing he'll do. Fucking monster."

My (screen) name is makeitstop, and I approve this message.

421 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:43:18pm

re: #410 DisturbedEma

So wrong, it's right:)

The teachings of Crom are far healthier than modern evangelism

422 garhighway  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:44:30pm

re: #414 Coracle

Steve, while your barn door is closed, I'm confident you'll have your reasons for voting Romney proved wrong whether he wins or loses. I don't buy his business experience as a plus for running this country. I think your taking personally Obama's statements about your wealth demographic is short-sighted. Perhaps you are not greedy (though grudging a couple extra hundred bucks if you earn over $250k or a few thousand if you earn over a $1mil doesn't sound exactly benevolent), but many prominent - and loud - members of your wealth demographic are precisely, definitionally, greedy, and that's something you should have long recognized.

I think his own business (and governing) decision-making record makes the opposite argument. Romney's 'stance' on space exploration is a non-stance.
He doesn't give a damn, and the anti-science Republican party would dilute or kill any new damn he might chose to give. I don't buy for one minute that
NASA's budget is going to look any rosier under a Romney administration
than an Obama second term.

The "we need a CEO" thing makes zero sense. CEOs are about maximizing profits. That concept has no application in running the government. CEOs aren't about creating jobs, if anything, they are about finding ways to produce the same or greater profits with LESS people. I do not understand why people think those are the the same things.

423 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:44:31pm

re: #420 makeitstop

Lemmy from Motorhead weighs in:

My (screen) name is makeitsop, and I approve this message.

Lemmy is a smarter political commentator than Dave Mustaine.

Also, he's Lemmy. 'Nuff said. Heh.

424 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:45:07pm

re: #422 garhighway

The "we need a CEO" thing makes zero sense. CEOs are about maximizing profits. That concept has no application in running the government. CEOs aren't about creating jobs, if anything, they are about finding ways to produce the same or greater profits with LESS people. I do not understand why people think those are the the same things.

Because they're stupid and have fallen for the RWNJ propaganda about CEOs being job creators.

425 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:45:49pm

re: #423 Lidane

Lemmy is a smarter political commentator than Dave Mustaine.

Also, he's Lemmy. 'Nuff said. Heh.

My dog is a smarter (fill in the blank) than Dave Mustaine.

426 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:46:20pm

Not much politics on my Facebook feed. My older brother was arguing with some of his friends who were supporting Romney, but looks like he gave it up about two weeks ago. Today my younger brother and my mother were boasting about voting for some 3rd party candidates, although it's a pretty weak boast when they don't name the candidate. At least they voted in California, where it hardly matters (sorry, Californians. You know what I mean).

427 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:46:32pm

re: #420 makeitstop

Well, now that God has endorsed Obama this election should be pretty well sewn up, yes?

428 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:46:47pm

re: #422 garhighway

The "we need a CEO" thing makes zero sense. CEOs are about maximizing profits. That concept has no application in running the government. CEOs aren't about creating jobs, if anything, they are about finding ways to produce the same or greater profits with LESS people. I do not understand why people think those are the the same things.

It's the same moronic concept that thinks the government should be ran like a business. They're two totally different things for fuck sakes.

429 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:48:40pm

re: #426 wrenchwench

well, my vote may not matter electorally but I'll be casting mine for Obama so it will at least contribute to his popular vote margin.

430 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:49:28pm

re: #428 HappyWarrior

It's the same moronic concept that thinks the government should be ran like a business. They're two totally different things for fuck sakes.

It harkens back to the archaic ideal that we are all gentleman farmers, living independently on our own estates, beholden to none. We are now all entrepreneurs, we are all out to maximize our profits. Government and taxation are but a hindrance and a burdent towards those ends.

We still want to buy that outdated image. Outdated? heck, it never existed, it was an ideal even under Thomas Jefferson.

431 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:49:43pm

re: #427 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

Well, now that God has endorsed Obama this election should be pretty well sewn up, yes?

Yep. It's a wrap. Go 'ome, Mitt.

432 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:49:53pm

re: #429 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

well, my vote may not matter electorally but I'll be casting mine for Obama so it will at least contribute to his popular vote margin.

Ditto here, I vote in Arizona.

433 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:49:55pm
434 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:49:58pm

My uncle kind of had an interesting idea today. Suggested something like a one six year term for the presidency because presidents spend nearly all their last year running for re-election anyhow. Food for thought. I've never liked term limits honestly. I understand the spirit behind them but I also don't like forcing them either. Always was amusing to me how FDR got accused of being a quasi dictator by seeking more than two by the right even though he wasn't the first to do that since Teddy Roosevelt and Ulysses Grant tried the same thing. Also, David McCullough was on Sixty Minutes last night and McCullough was awesome as usual. He's my favorite historian. Morley Safer did a terrific job interviewing him and spending some time with him.

435 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:50:19pm

re: #429 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

well, my vote may not matter electorally but I'll be casting mine for Obama so it will at least contribute to his popular vote margin.

Want to be my brother? I have 3 possible trade-ins. 6 if you count my sisters, who I'd be much more eager to trade....

436 Mattand  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:50:51pm

re: #426 wrenchwench

Not much politics on my Facebook feed. My older brother was arguing with some of his friends who were supporting Romney, but looks like he gave it up about two weeks ago. Today my younger brother and my mother were boasting about voting for some 3rd party candidates, although it's a pretty weak boast when they don't name the candidate. At least they voted in California, where it hardly matters (sorry, Californians. You know what I mean).

Mine's been surprisingly quiet. The only post was my tweet from this morning reminding PA voters that even if asked, they don't need ID to vote this year. Of course, if you're white, they're probably not going to ask.

That surprisingly only got one acknowledgement. I think everyone is nervous/burned out. I sure am.

The thought that the GOP has an actual shot of winning the White House and keeping control of the House is tad concerning.

437 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:51:13pm

re: #422 garhighway

The "we need a CEO" thing makes zero sense. CEOs are about maximizing profits. That concept has no application in running the government. CEOs aren't about creating jobs, if anything, they are about finding ways to produce the same or greater profits with LESS people. I do not understand why people think those are the the same things.

All CEOs are not the same. Romney, as far as I can tell, was an excellent financier. He has NO experience in production/manufacturing and is not much of a manager of people. I don't take his experience in business very seriously with respect to running a country.

438 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:51:17pm

re: #432 AK-47%

Ditto here, I vote in Arizona.

Arizona could swing. Maybe not this year, but four years from now it could be a different place.

439 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:52:00pm

re: #438 wrenchwench

I almost wonder if it could be a surprise this election given what happened with the papers please law and other measures taken by wingnuts there.

440 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:52:27pm
441 allegro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:52:52pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

I hope he has a blanket and a book.

I was thinking car keys and a wallet so he could chill at the local pub, toss some darts, take advantage of the situation.

442 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:53:09pm

re: #439 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I almost wonder if it could be a surprise this election given what happened with the papers please law and other measures taken by wingnuts there.

The 'Adios Arpaio' folks registered 24,000 NEW voters. That's just in Maricopa County.

443 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:53:16pm

re: #434 HappyWarrior

My uncle kind of had an interesting idea today. Suggested something like a one six year term for the presidency because presidents spend nearly all their last year running for re-election anyhow. Food for thought.

That's Mexico's model. They have a single presidential term that lasts for six years.

All you have to do is look at their history to see why that happened. Between the dictators like Porfirio Diaz and the round robin of Presidents and leaders they went through before their second revolution, it gave them stability to have a single six year term for office. The downside is that all the nominees tend to come from the same insider pool for the parties. Lifetime bureaucrats get boosted to the highest office. It's not the best system, really.

444 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:53:18pm

re: #438 wrenchwench

Arizona could swing. Maybe not this year, but four years from now it could be a different place.

That's what I was saying about Virginia in 2004. My government teacher looked at me like I was nuts. It was kind of wishful thinking I concede but I definitely could see Arizona becoming a battle ground state in 2016 and beyond. Definitely think Brewer's going to have to work her ass off for re-election too.

445 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:54:13pm
446 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:55:03pm

re: #443 Lidane

That's Mexico's model. They have a single presidential term that lasts for six years.

All you have to do is look at their history to see why that happened. Between the dictators like Porfirio Diaz and the round robin of Presidents and leaders they went through before their second revolution, it gave them stability to have a single six year term for office. The downside is that all the nominees tend to come from the same insider pool for the parties. Lifetime bureaucrats get boosted to the highest office. It's not the best system, really.

Yeah. For what it's worth. I think things are fine the way they are. And while I appreciate FDR, I think Washington set a good example for his successors.

447 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:55:07pm

re: #440 darthstar

Pretty sure they're jumping the gun. The CRUT setup wouldn't allow him to dodge all taxes, just taxes on the earnings from the charity. Is what's being alleged that his entire income got sent through it? I don't think that's possible.

448 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:55:16pm

re: #445 Lidane

[Embedded content]

What ever you say, Whale Limbaugh.

449 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:55:40pm

re: #442 wrenchwench

Things like that make me wonder. I mean, given everything that's happened in AZ under the GOP I am sure the Dems have registered tons of people to vote and the demographics for AZ alone should make it competitive. I am not going to get my hopes up but I wouldn't be surprised to see it surprise people tomorrow.

450 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:55:48pm

re: #445 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Right. Only black people are into basketball.

I'm so glad the NFL refused Limbaugh's participation.

451 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:56:03pm

re: #434 HappyWarrior

Always was amusing to me how FDR got accused of being a quasi dictator by seeking more than two by the right even though he wasn't the first to do that since Teddy Roosevelt and Ulysses Grant tried the same thing.

Technically his first term wouldn't count towards the limit, even if it existed at the time, since it wasn't complete. He was taking over for McKinley.

452 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:56:12pm
453 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:57:07pm

re: #448 Varek Raith

What ever you say, Whale Limbaugh.

BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI!

454 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:57:18pm

re: #450 wrenchwench

Right. Only black people are into basketball.

I'm so glad the NFL refused Limbaugh's participation.

He called basketball the sport of gangsters. Guess this means my Dad's a gangster since B-Ball's been his number one sport for over 50 years now. Reminds me, I'm going to be doing some assistant coaching with him this winter. Should be fun and maybe I'll see if I have the patience to coach Little League baseball down the line.

455 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:57:19pm

re: #443 Lidane

That's Mexico's model. They have a single presidential term that lasts for six years.

All you have to do is look at their history to see why that happened. Between the dictators like Porfirio Diaz and the round robin of Presidents and leaders they went through before their second revolution, it gave them stability to have a single six year term for office. The downside is that all the nominees tend to come from the same insider pool for the parties. Lifetime bureaucrats get boosted to the highest office. It's not the best system, really.

It's also if memory serves the model that the CSA was going to use... which is probably another big (emotional) reason we'd never do it here in the USA.

456 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:58:17pm

re: #453 Kragar

BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI!

Shut up, Joe.

457 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:58:27pm

re: #451 danarchy

Technically his first term wouldn't count towards the limit, even if it existed at the time, since it wasn't complete. He was taking over for McKinley.

I know that. He still stepped down in 1908 because he thought he was within the spirit of the example Washington set. He only decided to run in 1912 because he felt Taft betrayed his legacy.

458 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:59:10pm

Haha:

459 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:59:14pm

As an aside, I was hanging with my fishing buddies friday evening since we were camping/bbqing before the trout opener at a local lake. One of them mentioned something about being worried about the freedom they've lost over the past 4 years. I just had to ask what exact freedom they lost. His answer "The sense that the government isn't interfering in my life".

In other words, couldn't name a real freedom that they've lost but plan to vote for the guy who brags about interfering in the decisions and lives of women.

460 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:59:42pm

re: #449 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Things like that make me wonder. I mean, given everything that's happened in AZ under the GOP I am sure the Dems have registered tons of people to vote and the demographics for AZ alone should make it competitive. I am not going to get my hopes up but I wouldn't be surprised to see it surprise people tomorrow.

I like looking at the news from Surprise, Arizona.

461 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:59:43pm

Where I live in Kentucky, the "job creators" offshored everything between 2001-2008 to maximize their profits. I made some extra money teaching basic cultural awareness to their managers that they were sending to India and China. (Not that they wanted to learn...theses people like cheap labor, not dirty brown heathens, and were very loud about it. I wasn't surprised to find out that several managers got roughed up in India after desecrating and urinating on a Hindu shrine in public). Most of my fellow farmers take huge government subsidies. Everybody stashes money overseas. Everybody bitches about the "illegals," but all the contracting firms, landscapers, and real estate moguls rely on teams of them, with the nudge-and-a-wink understanding that you can discard one group when they get identified and find new ones (a side effect of the churn of illegal labor at the nearby chicken processing plant).

All of the above? Rock-ribbed Republicans in a deep red state. I constantly take shit for being, at my income, a liberal.

462 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:00:09pm

re: #456 Varek Raith

Shut up, Joe.

Benghazi

463 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:00:19pm

re: #445 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Limbaugh is a sick bastard.

464 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:00:19pm

re: #455 jamesfirecat

It's also if memory serves the model that the CSA was going to use... which is probably another big (emotional) reason we'd never do it here in the USA.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
That's correct. Seems that some endorsed it though including President Hayes, himself a Union veteran. Honestly, we have a one term limit on our governors here in Virginia and I hate it.

465 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:01:10pm

re: #454 HappyWarrior

He called basketball the sport of gangsters.

Basketball is the only actually American sport. It's the only sport invented in the USA.

Why does Limbaugh hate the USA?

466 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:02:17pm

re: #460 wrenchwench

I like looking at the news from Surprise, Arizona.

Why?

467 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:02:23pm

I did manage to glean this from Facebook:

Image: 2EqzyHqItE-VFg_0fMDWZQ2.png

468 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:03:02pm

re: #465 Obdicut

Basketball is the only actually American sport. It's the only sport invented in the USA.

Why does Limbaugh hate the USA?

Haha I don't know. But that's true too. Wonderful game really. It was my best sport as a kid and I'm looking forward to coaching.

469 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:05:44pm
470 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:06:01pm

re: #421 Kragar

Yea, verily

471 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:06:28pm

re: #468 HappyWarrior

Haha I don't know. But that's true too. Wonderful game really. It was my best sport as a kid and I'm looking forward to coaching.

I hated it, probably because I was the only white kid on the block, and a short, fat one at that. Nobody wanted me on their team. I enjoyed baseball a lot more.

472 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:07:07pm

re: #423 Lidane

Dave has not been the same since in injury, mentally or otherwise

473 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:07:19pm

re: #469 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Mohammed: It's unfortunate that the desperate nature of our situation forces one of us to hug the martyrdom once more to fight and defeat the infidels. Well, who of us will have the honor today?
Taliban: How about you, Mohammed? You are more than worthy!
Mohammed: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. And I would like to do it. I would like to do it, believe me. Nobody in the world would like to do it more than me. But unfortunately Osama has forbid it me.
Taliban: How about Abdul?
[points to the retarted Taliban]
Mohammed: Ah, a good idea. A very good idea. Genius! But of course he has to agree. So... Abdul, if you don't want to be blown into tiny little pieces, hold up your hand, hop on one foot and sing "Freebird".
Retarded Taliban: Uh... uh...
Mohammed: Abdul, it is!

474 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:07:34pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

They used to say seventy-two hours.

After Katrina, I upped that estimate considerably.

Most people do it wrong. Simple starting routine:
1) Make a list of every disaster you think reasonable. (Your definition of reasonable. If you want to plan for Chthulu's rise that's your business.)
2) Put those in rows. The columns are home, work (or school), and in-transit.
3) For each block, start with the answer to "how long will I need the supplies". Double it. I don't care how well you've anticipated, double it. Now figure out WHAT supplies you will need. A point here: don't throw in the arbitrary. If you don't know how to do surgery don't throw in a surgeon's pack.
4) Now figure out what your in-home pack looks like, what your transportation pack looks like, and what your away pack looks like. If you don't have storage at work/school, figure out how you're going to have it. (an aside. I have a money belt. It carries what I consider the absolute basics for four hours, excluding water. I try to always have a bottle of water nearby. By the way, items one and two in the pack are a whistle and a micro-flashlight, as the MOST important thing is to be found.)

Oh - don't forget to do this with everyone. And make at least a rough plan for how (or if) you're going to link up if the disaster occurs while you're separate.

yeah, I've done this a time or two.

475 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:09:41pm

That should be fun, especially in light of all the RWNJ venom towards Nate Silver. Haha.

476 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:10:06pm

re: #475 Lidane

[Embedded content]

That should be fun, especially in light of all the RWNJ venom towards Nate Silver. Haha.

Math is of Satan.

477 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:10:30pm
478 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:11:13pm

re: #473 Kragar

that movie was pure awesome. You should also check out "God Bless America".

479 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:11:43pm

Dear silly people who think NFL games predict anything,
Correlation does not imply causation

480 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:11:56pm

re: #468 HappyWarrior

Haha I don't know. But that's true too. Wonderful game really. It was my best sport as a kid and I'm looking forward to coaching.

I thought b ball was invented by a Canadian doctor.

481 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:13:26pm

re: #478 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that movie was pure awesome. You should also check out "God Bless America".

Absolutely terrible, and I watched the whole thing

482 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:14:06pm

re: #479 Varek Raith

Well said!

483 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:14:18pm

re: #477 Lidane

[Embedded content]

i thought I had heard the last of the Redskins rule in 2004. Of course, I was glad that it was re-verified in 2008 but that was because the Deadskins were playing my team that night.

484 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:15:12pm

re: #480 Bipartite Gnomenclature

I thought b ball was invented by a Canadian doctor.

Naismith was a Canadian immigrant to the US.

485 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:16:29pm

re: #479 Varek Raith

Dear silly people who think NFL games predict anything,
Correlation does not imply causation

Next you'll be telling me that ice cream sales don't drive annual murder rates.

486 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:17:44pm

re: #485 The Ghost of a Flea

Heresy! :)

487 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:17:52pm

re: #479 Varek Raith

Dear silly people who think NFL games predict anything,
Correlation does not imply causation

That's what science tells us, but science is of the Devil...

488 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:18:08pm

re: #485 The Ghost of a Flea

Next you'll be telling me that ice cream sales don't drive annual murder rates.

I have it on good authority that 3rd grade literacy tests determine prison population.
/

489 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:18:58pm
490 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:19:06pm

re: #477 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Another story by Glen Levy: Psychic Claims That Steve Jobs Isn’t Having a Nice Afterlife

491 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:19:08pm

The Redskins rule is as foolish as the people who think RGIII is the best rookie QB ever.

492 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:19:19pm

The lack of pirates causes AGW.
Fact.

493 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:19:28pm

From Limbaugh's daily email:

Everything (Except the Polls) Points to a Mitt Landslide

Hahaha! Also:

Don't Be Scared -- Vote!

I think they're scared.

494 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:21:42pm

Manna from Heaven?

495 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:22:27pm

re: #492 Varek Raith

The lack of pirates causes AGW.
Fact.

A black incumbent has NEVER LOST A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

Why are we all so worried?

496 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:24:13pm
497 danarchy  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:24:43pm

I love XKCD

498 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:25:41pm

Jay-Z in Columbus, just performed "I've got 99 problems but Mitt ain't one"

499 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:26:15pm

re: #498 JamesWI

Jay-Z in Columbus, just performed "I've got 99 problems but Mitt ain't one"

Haha.

500 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:26:43pm

re: #498 JamesWI

Well yeah, because you know, he's a gazillionaire. . .:)

501 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:26:56pm

re: #496 darthstar

[Embedded content]

"Governor Christie, we know you like Mitt but we know you like The Boss even more."

502 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:28:02pm

re: #496 darthstar

[Embedded content]

This really happened? Aw man....

503 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:29:14pm

re: #492 Varek Raith

The lack of pirates causes AGW.
Fact.

No, it is the overabundance of ninjas. Get your facts straight.
//

504 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:29:45pm

re: #503 kirkspencer

No, it is the overabundance of ninjas. Get your facts straight.
//

Ninjas are cooler than pirates anyhow. And I'm a rum fan.

505 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:29:53pm

re: #495 erik_t

A black incumbent has NEVER LOST A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

Why are we all so worried?

Because a black incumbent has NEVER WON A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION!

506 Jolo5309  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:30:01pm

re: #465 Obdicut

Basketball is the only actually American sport. It's the only sport invented in the USA.

Why does Limbaugh hate the USA?

And like most things Canadian, the inventor had to go to the US to get recognised...

507 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:30:03pm

re: #503 kirkspencer

Good one! :)

508 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:30:20pm

The sad thing is, you could see Mitt saying exactly this:

509 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:32:07pm

re: #496 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Hahaha. POTUS is trolling Romney HQ. That's awesome. XD

510 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:32:10pm

re: #505 jamesfirecat

Because a black incumbent has NEVER WON A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION!

CONSARNIT, WE'RE ALL DOOMED BY SCIENCE

511 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:32:17pm

re: #508 JamesWI

The sad thing is, you could see Mitt saying exactly this:

[Embedded content]

In fact.....here is one of his advisers

512 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:34:33pm

re: #498 JamesWI

Jay-Z in Columbus, just performed "I've got 99 problems but Mitt ain't one"

If you having poll problems I feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but a Mitt ain't one
Hit me

Heh.

513 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:36:12pm
In fact.....here is one of his advisers

[Embedded content]

Says the campaign that has Ted Nugent who suggested that POTUS suck on his gun barrel perform for them. What a bunch of babies.

514 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:36:17pm

re: #511 JamesWI

The pot calling the kettle misogynist HA!!!

515 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:37:32pm

Polls Suggest Undecideds Won’t Help Romney (If They Show Up)

Undecided voters have been focus grouped, split up into tiny subdivisions, and above all, relentlessly mocked this election. And now, after hundreds of millions of dollars spent to win their vote, there’s finally some evidence from pollsters that they’re reaching a decision.

The latest WSJ/NBC national poll puts Obama up over Romney by the narrowest margin, 48 percent to 47 percent. But it’s the poll’s breakdown of respondents who are either undecided or still willing to consider switching that stands out. According to NBC, the 9 percent of voters who fit the bill are overwhelmingly warmer to Obama. They approve of his performance by a 48-41 margin and like him personally by a 46-29 margin, both better than his national averages. Romney, by contrast, fares much worse with a 22-46 favorability rating.

It’s a small sample size, but as long as they don’t break strongly to Romney — and those numbers seem to suggest they won’t — Obama is in good shape. Neil Newhouse, Romney’s pollster, recently predicted victory in key states like Ohio in part because Obama often polls below 50% and the remaining undecideds are likely to flock to the challenger. If that shift doesn’t come, Obama’s leads are likely to hold up.

516 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:37:57pm

re: #514 DisturbedEma

Seriously, has this "advisor" been paying attention to the party he is advising?? The word bitch may not have ever been uttered by any of these rape baby assholes, but it is exactly what I heard between the lines.

517 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:38:29pm

Okay

Who stole the SHOW USERS tab??

CCA,, are you around??

I need some kitchen/ prep advice!!

518 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:38:39pm

Obama just came on stage

[Link: www.barackobama.com...]

Wonder what the crowd number is, because it looks huge.

519 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:38:44pm

re: #516 DisturbedEma

Seriously, has this "advisor" been paying attention to the party he is advising?? The word bitch may not have ever been uttered by any of these rape baby assholes, but it is exactly what I heard between the lines.

Richard Mourdock, Tom Smith, and Todd Akin aren't scary rappers though.

520 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:39:35pm

re: #519 HappyWarrior

They are scary, and they are not wrapped very tightly. . .you understand my concern:)

521 Ben G. Hazi  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:41:18pm

re: #497 danarchy

I love XKCD

Here's another one, that's pretty germane to this Election Day:
Image: electoral_precedent.png

522 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:41:44pm

From my son's Facebook page. . .

523 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:44:07pm
524 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:44:33pm

re: #523 darthstar

Oh SNAP!

525 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:45:11pm

re: #409 Lidane

OK, fine. Two bottles. One for the early evening, and one for when the election is called.

I'll either be pleasantly drunk and celebrating or I'll be drowning my sorrows. Either way, I will have a wine hangover at work on Wednesday. Haha.

My Wednesday workday is going to be wall-to-wall facepalm no matter who wins. If Obama wins, my wingnut coworkers are going to be indignantly reciting every Fox News talking point in the book and yelling about how Obama and all his supporters should be tried for treason. If Romney wins, same exact thing.

526 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:45:16pm

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

Fox Business host Lou Dobbs says Republican New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie knew exactly what he was doing when he “literally slobbered over” President Barack Obama in appreciation for the federal response to Hurricane Sandy.

Fox News host Megyn Kelly told Dobbs on Tuesday that Christie had put himself in “peril” by praising the president — even though the governor clarified on Sunday that while Obama “earned” his thanks, he was still voting for Mitt Romney.

“I would like to correct Gov. Christie,” Dobbs said. “He did not simply say thank you. He literally slobbered over the president with his expressions, the effusiveness.”

527 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:45:25pm

re: #393 Lidane

For me:

--Bottle of wine
--LGF open in one Chrome tab
--HootSuite open in another
--Music streaming on Spotify

I'm avoiding the networks and TV altogether. I'd rather get the play-by-play online.

I will be avoiding the TV as well. Probably monitoring things via LGF if not engaged in some activity with my houseguests.

I also suspect more virtual blood to be shed tomorrow than happens during a goblin siege in Dwarf Fortress.

528 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:45:31pm

re: #517 sattv4u2

Okay

Who stole the SHOW USERS tab??

CCA,, are you around??

I need some kitchen/ prep advice!!

Here's some from Andy Richter...

529 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:45:58pm
530 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:47:13pm

re: #526 Kragar

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

Angry old bigot says what? Maybe Christie was grateful for the help that his state got and Christie isn't a partisan hack.

531 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:47:46pm

re: #526 Kragar

So, caring about people who are in the dire circumstances posr Sandy is "slobbering" huh? Wow

532 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:48:10pm

re: #530 HappyWarrior

Again with the heresy. . .:)

533 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:48:16pm

re: #526 Kragar

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

It never fails to amaze me how many people do not know the meaning of the word "literally"

534 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:48:47pm

re: #528 darthstar

What's a rice cooker? I use a pan. . .oh my, that makes me a savage?

535 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:48:56pm

re: #526 Kragar

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

Needs a cock-punch.
/

536 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:49:06pm

re: #533 Sheila Broflovski

It never fails to amaze me how many people do not know the meaning of the word "literally"

Yeah if he "literally" slobbered over Obama than he would have literally slobbered over Obama. Fucking old bigoted fool.

537 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:49:07pm

re: #533 Sheila Broflovski

It never fails to amaze me how many people do not know the meaning of the word "literally"

OooOOOOOOOOoooooooh!

538 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:50:02pm

Nate Silver's moved Wisconsin and Nevada out of the "Competitive States" category and into the "Safe Obama" group.

If that holds up, he's just 17 away from 270. Ohio or Florida would be enough on their own, Virginia + any of NH, CO, or IA, or just the group of NH, CO, and IA on their own.

Final WashPost/ABC tracking poll (which had been bouncing between +1 leads for each candidate) just came out 50-47 for Obama.

Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. It's starting to look like even John Husted can't steal this one for Romney.

539 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:50:14pm

re: #534 DisturbedEma

What's a rice cooker? I use a pan. . .oh my, that makes me a savage?

Actually, about 3/4 of the time I just use the microwave.

540 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:50:25pm
541 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:51:48pm

re: #193 Big Steve

I also fall into the income level that President Obama routinely pillories and to be honest, not only is that an economic driver for my vote but it is emotional in that I am tired of being inferred as greedy.

So in order to effect some tiny benefits in marginal taxation, per Romney's promises will not result in your actually paying less, you're willing to ignore his strategy of constant lying and condone his blatant bigotry? You sure sound greedy, and willing to compromise on fundamental questions of civil rights and equality. You say this is an emotional thing for you and I believe it, only the emotion you should be feeling is shame.

542 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:51:50pm

re: #538 JamesWI

Link?????

543 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:52:33pm

re: #525 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

My Wednesday workday is going to be wall-to-wall facepalm no matter who wins. If Obama wins, my wingnut coworkers are going to be indignantly reciting every Fox News talking point in the book and yelling about how Obama and all his supporters should be tried for treason. If Romney wins, same exact thing.

There will be a small difference. If Romney wins there will be these weird and disturbing grins on their faces as they contemplate the strange fruit. The more likely thing, however, ... you should take hardboiled eggs. They taste better with salt, and the salt of wingnut tears is especially flavorful.

544 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:52:37pm

re: #525 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

My Wednesday workday is going to be wall-to-wall facepalm no matter who wins. If Obama wins, my wingnut coworkers are going to be indignantly reciting every Fox News talking point in the book and yelling about how Obama and all his supporters should be tried for treason. If Romney wins, same exact thing.

I'm lucky. The co-worker I share an office with is a liberal like me. We agree on politics, so we'll either both be miserable or both be celebrating on Wednesday.

545 Big Joe Ghazi  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:53:03pm

re: #539 kirkspencer

Actually, about 3/4 of the time I just use the microwave.

Microwave? Are you a wizard?

546 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:53:31pm

re: #539 kirkspencer

Actually, about 3/4 of the time I just use the microwave.

Oh, so you must be rich

547 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:53:57pm

re: #546 Kragar

Hell ya! You beat me to it!!!!

548 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:53:57pm

re: #538 JamesWI

Nate Silver's moved Wisconsin and Nevada out of the "Competitive States" category and into the "Safe Obama" group.

If that holds up, he's just 17 away from 270. Ohio or Florida would be enough on their own, Virginia + any of NH, CO, or IA, or just the group of NH, CO, and IA on their own.

Final WashPost/ABC tracking poll (which had been bouncing between +1 leads for each candidate) just came out 50-47 for Obama.

Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. It's starting to look like even John Husted can't steal this one for Romney.

You said that in comment 538. :D

549 leftynyc  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:54:46pm

re: #526 Kragar

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

Literally? I'd like to see the video on that, Lou, you moron.

550 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:55:20pm

re: #546 Kragar

Oh, so you must be rich

Probably even has a cell phone.

551 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:56:14pm

re: #541 goddamnedfrank

So in order to effect some tiny benefits in marginal taxation, per Romney's promises will not result in your actually paying less, you're willing to ignore his strategy of constant lying and condone his blatant bigotry? You sure sound greedy, and willing to compromise on fundamental questions of civil rights and equality. You say this is an emotional thing for you and I believe it, only the emotion you should be feeling is shame.

He holds that it's fine to vote purely for his own self-interest, and didn't seem to even consider a different viewpoint. That really answers your question, doesn't it?

552 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:56:31pm

re: #538 JamesWI

Nate Silver's moved Wisconsin and Nevada out of the "Competitive States" category and into the "Safe Obama" group.

"Safe Obama"...fuck that makes me feel good to see (and type) those words.

553 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:56:41pm

re: #550 darthstar

Probably even has a cell phone.

Like a boss

554 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:56:43pm
555 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:57:09pm

re: #549 leftynyc

Literally? I'd like to see the video on that, Lou, you moron.

The more I think about that Dobbs quote, it really make me happy.

It's gotta be gnawing at that old bastard's innards that a Republican didn't act like, well, a Republican.

How's that bile taste, Lou?

556 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:57:13pm

If Obama loses, how much blame would fall to these guys?

Er, is Truthdig a site we must not link?

Why I’m Voting Green
Posted on Oct 29, 2012
By Chris Hedges

557 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:57:30pm

re: #554 Gus

[Embedded content]

The smile that says he'll be wearing you like a brand new Gus suit.

558 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:57:42pm

re: #538 JamesWI

Nate Silver's moved Wisconsin and Nevada out of the "Competitive States" category and into the "Safe Obama" group.

The numbers, driven by polls and by his preconstructed model, have crossed over an arbitrary round number.

I think it does Silver's work a profound disservice to say that he "moved states" from one category into another.

559 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:58:27pm

re: #541 goddamnedfrank

So in order to effect some tiny benefits in marginal taxation, per Romney's promises will not result in your actually paying less, you're willing to ignore his strategy of constant lying and condone his blatant bigotry? You sure sound greedy, and willing to compromise on fundamental questions of civil rights and equality. You say this is an emotional thing for you and I believe it, only the emotion you should be feeling is shame.

The best part of his comment for me:

I do think we owe both of these people a debt of gratitude that they would be willing to put themselves and their families through this ordeal just to give us a choice for leadership.

Oh yes, we owe Mitt Romney a real debt of gratitude for running probably the most dishonest, disgusting campaign in modern political history. Yep, America really owes Mitt for that. We should all write him thank-you letters.

560 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:58:45pm

re: #556 Daniel Ballard

If Obama loses, how much blame would fall to these guys?

Not very much, because there isn't a substantial nationwide base voting for... whoever they're voting for. Who I probably haven't heard of, and so sure won't have the same sway as Nader.

562 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:59:18pm

re: #559 JamesWI

The letter I would write to Mitt would probably get me arrested. . .

563 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:59:46pm

ZOMG! ACORN! Eleventy!

564 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 1:59:56pm

re: #561 Kragar

Schlafly and Allies Prepare to Blame Election Loss on Voter Fraud

If NOAA had been thinking ahead, they would have named Hurricane Sandy "Hurricane Voter Fraud"

565 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:00:06pm

re: #560 erik_t

Goes like this...Unfair and harsh as hell.


The Obama administration has embraced the policies of George W. Bush, and then gone much further,” Stein said. “Wall Street bailouts went ballistic under Obama—$700 billion under Bush, but $4.5 trillion under Obama, plus another $16 trillion in zero-interest loans for Wall Street. Obama continues offshoring our jobs. Bill Clinton brought us NAFTA, which was carried out under George W. Bush. It was vastly expanded under Obama to labor abusers in Colombia, and to Panama and South Korea. The Transpacific Partnership, being negotiated behind closed doors by the Obama White House, is NAFTA on steroids. It continues to send our jobs overseas. It undermines wages at home. It overrides American sovereignty by establishing an international corporate board that can overrule American legislation and regulations that protect workers as well as our air, our water, our climate and our food supply.”

566 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:00:32pm

re: #563 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Isn't ACORN sitting next to Osama bin Laden at the bottom of the ocean?

567 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:00:33pm

re: #526 Kragar

Lou Dobbs: Christie ‘literally slobbered over’ Obama

Literally? I want a DNA analysis of the jacket stains!

568 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:00:48pm

re: #564 darthstar

If NOAA had been thinking ahead, they would have named Hurricane Sandy "Hurricane Voter Fraud"

Hurricane Daley?
/

569 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:01:16pm

re: #546 Kragar

Oh, so you must be rich

... I didn't say it was my microwave.

570 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:02:47pm

re: #539 kirkspencer

Actually, about 3/4 of the time I just use the microwave.

Philistine! (Or, hakujin might be more appropriate in this case).

571 Lidane  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:03:43pm
572 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:04:34pm

re: #556 Daniel Ballard

If Obama loses, how much blame would fall to these guys?

Er, is Truthdig a site we must not link?

Why I’m Voting Green
Posted on Oct 29, 2012
By Chris Hedges

Simply put, pretty much zero. The only "swing state" where I've seen anyone even try to argue that a third-party candidate could "cost" Obama is in Colorado. And if our hopes rest on Colorado, that means we've lost Ohio, Florida, Iowa, NH, and possibly Virginia.

In other words, if it comes down to CO, we were pretty much destined to lose, because that means pretty much every poll is wrong.

573 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:04:51pm

re: #565 Daniel Ballard

The point is that third-party voters attract blame in direct proportion to their numbers and the closeness of their states.

To first order, I know precisely zero people who are voting for a third party presidential candidate this cycle, and I suspect I am not alone in that. I knew quite a number of Nader voters in 2000.

574 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:05:10pm

Romney endorser and Republican Senate candidate Linda McMahon doing what comes naturally...

Image: obama_mcmahon.png

575 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:06:09pm

OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!11ty

576 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:07:17pm

School District Claims Student ‘Was Herself Responsible’ For Being Raped

Two teachers at Moraga middle school in northern California sexually abused Kristen Cunnane in the 1990s. One, former P.E. teacher Julie Correa, received an eight year sentence for committing multiple sex crimes against Cunnane. The other, former science teacher Daneil Witters, committed suicide after several students came forward with allegations against him in 1996.

Now an adult, Cunnane filed a lawsuit against the school district that employed these two teachers, seeking compensation for being raped and abused for several years. In response to her legal complaint, the district offered a surprising defense:

Defendants allege that Plaintiff was herself careless and negligent in and about the matters alleged in the complaint, and that said carelessness and negligence on said Plaintiff’s part proximately contributed to the happenings of the incident and to the injuries, loss and damages complained of, if any there were . . . .

[Alternatively, d]efendants allege that Plaintiff was herself responsible for the acts and damages of which she claims herein, and by reason thereof is estopped from obtaining any damages as result thereof.

Just in case this dry legal language is not clear, the school district claims that Cunnane was “herself responsible” for the fact that she was repeatedly sexually abused by her school teachers, beginning at age 12. Or, just in case a jury won’t buy that claim, that she was “careless and negligent” in the matter of her own rape.

577 JamesWI  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:07:35pm

re: #574 darthstar

Romney endorser and Republican Senate candidate Linda McMahon doing what comes naturally...

Image: obama_mcmahon.png

Oh my.....Is that from her campaign or a PAC?

578 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:08:36pm

re: #576 Kragar

School District Claims Student ‘Was Herself Responsible’ For Being Raped

Excuse me? Not to be crude, but was she carelessly dancing around pantsless and fell onto an erect dick?

SMFH.

579 kirkspencer  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:08:57pm

re: #570 gwangung

Philistine! (Or, hakujin might be more appropriate in this case).

heh.

Actually, depending on what sort of rice you're using and assuming you learn where the time goes from cooking to overcooked, I've found most people can't tell for most dishes.

Standard white. 2 cups water, 1 cup rice, 2 quart dish (uncovered). Somewhere between 11:30 and 12 minutes for most machines I've used.

580 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:08:58pm

re: #577 JamesWI

Oh my.....Is that from her campaign or a PAC?

Her campaign. Apparently those door fliers are all over CT.

581 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:09:15pm

Mitt Romney doing his part to suppress Republican vote.

582 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:09:21pm

re: #575 Gus

OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!11ty

[Embedded content]

1 word:

Nugent

583 macaw  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:11:42pm
Of course, even after the marathon was canceled, not all of the equipment, including generators, was made available for disaster response. Some of it was still sitting in place in Central Park and elsewhere, even as Mayor Bloomberg now warns those without power that the cold could end up being a killer.

I am not sure if anyone needs this with all the competition out there from other weather sites, but there is a free Norwegian public weather broadcast website available in English.

[Link: www.yr.no...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

They got some good coverage over Antarctica, Wall Street, the Himalayas, Mogadishu, the Amazon rain forest and similar exotic locales.

584 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:13:23pm

re: #583 macaw


Americans use Fahrenheit.

585 darthstar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:13:34pm
586 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:13:47pm
587 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:14:19pm

Starnes: Obama to Blame that 'Gangs of Roving Thugs' Have Taken Over New York in Storm Aftermath

Today on "Focal Point," Bryan Fischer welcomed Fox News' Todd Starnes to provide an update on the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, which Starnes insisted was Hurricane Katrina multiplied by five. While Fischer asserted that the Red Cross "has been virtually useless," Starnes insisted that the Obama administration's response has likewise been an utter failure because New York is now a "jungle" overrun by lawlessness where people have to sleep with baseball bats and knives because they are terrified of "these gangs of roving thugs."

After Starnes declared that "this is a very clear example of Barack Obama's America; this is his Katrina," Fischer again wondered if this "lawlessness" was something the nation would see on a larger scale if President Obama does not win re-election, which prompted Starnes to assert that members of his family are fully prepared to defend themselves in such an event, which is all Obama's fault:

588 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:14:33pm

re: #586 Gus

[Embedded content]

The gangs of New York are on the prowl?

//

589 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:14:34pm

re: #579 kirkspencer

heh.

Actually, depending on what sort of rice you're using and assuming you learn where the time goes from cooking to overcooked, I've found most people can't tell for most dishes.

Standard white. 2 cups water, 1 cup rice, 2 quart dish (uncovered). Somewhere between 11:30 and 12 minutes for most machines I've used.

I grew up doing it "manually" with a standard pot...but I also was doing it for the traditional "crispy crust" of cooked rice that a lot of folks like.

It's not a bad thing to have, but the convenience of a cooker won me over...

590 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:14:45pm

re: #586 Gus

Those are just the Rangers fans.

592 gwangung  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:15:38pm

re: #581 darthstar

Mitt Romney doing his part to suppress Republican vote.

[Embedded content]

Really? Triple face palm time (and clear evidence that the incompetence of the campaign stems from the top).

593 erik_t  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:16:13pm

re: #587 Kragar

Starnes: Obama to Blame that 'Gangs of Roving Thugs' Have Taken Over New York in Storm Aftermath

Well hell, the gangs of roving thugs have reduced crime 30%. I say we let them stay.

/

594 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:16:54pm

re: #591 Gus

Psycho BS.

Starnes Blames Obama, Says New York Overrun By "Gangs Of Roving Thugs" In

[Embedded content]

Apparently one group is just trying to make it across Manhattan back to their home turf after being blamed for killing Cyrus.

595 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:17:04pm

re: #580 darthstar

Her campaign. Apparently those door fliers are all over CT.

I don't get why wealthy wannabe's like her, Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman didn't just find safe House seats to run for. Instead of starting small where their money could afford them an overwhelming advantage they immediately overreach and end up wasting it all on a statewide electoral pipe dream. It's a clear case where being in the right place at the right time to experience outsized business success feeds an overweening ego to the point of bursting.

596 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:17:22pm

re: #576 Kragar

This is what lawyers are hired to do.

597 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:17:27pm

re: #594 Kragar

Apparently one group is just trying to make it across Manhattan back to their home turf after being blamed for killing Cyrus.

Can you dig it?!

598 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:17:50pm

re: #597 Targetpractice

Can you dig it?!

Youtube Video
599 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:18:40pm

re: #594 Kragar

Apparently one group is just trying to make it across Manhattan back to their home turf after being blamed for killing Cyrus.

I haven't seen any reports of looting. This is just flat out racist bullshit. Notice how Starnes says "it like a JUNGLE out there." Plus they quickly turn the conversation into some imaginary BS about looting into some imaginary BS about riots after the election. Again.

600 macaw  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:20:01pm

re: #584 Obdicut

Yeah, that should have occured to me. K.

602 Gus  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:21:44pm

There was some looting but these dorks make it sound like Blade Runner for their white hillbilly audience.

603 Kragar  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:23:00pm

re: #602 Gus

There was some looting but these dorks make it sound like Blade Runner for their white hillbilly audience.

MINORITIES WERE MIXING OPENLY ON THE STREETS! MASS HYSTERIA!

604 Amory Blaine  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:25:20pm

re: #598 Kragar

[Embedded content]

He he I remember the game.

Youtube Video
605 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:27:21pm

re: #604 Amory Blaine

He he I remember the game.

[Embedded content]

OMG! Mid-2000s graphics! Get it off my screen!!!

606 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:36:01pm

re: #588 Targetpractice

The gangs of New York are on the prowl?

//

Yes. Only here we call them 'groups of volunteers, helping to clean up.'

607 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 2:37:54pm

re: #587 Kragar

Starnes: Obama to Blame that 'Gangs of Roving Thugs' Have Taken Over New York in Storm Aftermath

Someone needs to explain to the idiots over at FoxNews the concept of crime statistics.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Overall crime rate: Down by over 30%
Violent crime rate: Murders down by 86%, Rape down by 44%.

Total number of looting arrests: 15

608 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 5:35:04pm

re: #288 erik_t

Gross. No thanks.

Least bugfuck crazy != good choice

Be as critical as ya want. But, given the close race we can easily speculate Huntsman would have beat the incumbent. After all it's not at all hard to think Huntsman could have gotten say 5% or 10% more votes than Romney.

Huntsman had a shot.


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