Boehner’s Plan B Bites the Dust

But his tan’s still perfect
Politics • Views: 23,054

Here’s an open thread to talk about the amazing collapse of a big piece of the Republican Party’s obstructionist agenda tonight, as Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” took a long walk off a short pier…

UPDATE at 12/20/12 7:10:45 pm

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303 comments
1 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:42:07pm

Goodbye, Speaker Boehner. Hello, Speaker Cantor.

2 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:42:20pm

It was all posture, what he didn't expect was Obama saying sure, we can put x, y, z on the table, which in turn forced Boehner to actually put something he knew wouldn't pass to a vote.

3 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:44:03pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

Goodbye, Speaker Boehner. Hello, Speaker Cantor.

Maybe. Probably, even, but... Cantor was whipping too. And I bet pretty much everyone there knows whether he was whipping or just going through the motions. Either way it's going to make members unhappy - maybe enough that Cantor also can't get the speaker spot.

4 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:45:31pm

By the way, I've been anticipating the failure with glee. Plan B? Really?

5 blueraven  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:45:39pm

a week later

6 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:46:21pm

re: #3 kirkspencer

Maybe. Probably, even, but... Cantor was whipping too. And I bet pretty much everyone there knows whether he was whipping or just going through the motions. Either way it's going to make members unhappy - maybe enough that Cantor also can't get the speaker spot.

Very possible. But at this point, I don't think anybody realistically sees how Boehner can continue to be Speaker going forward. He'll have even less wiggle room next year and the Tea Party's likely to exact even greater revenge for his "purges."

7 geoduck  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:46:55pm

I suppose human ambition is universal, but I have to wonder how many House GOPers really want to be up there in the cross-hairs, instead of engaging in comfortable and easy bomb-throwing.

8 Robert O.  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:47:31pm

Boehner yet again goes limp in the face of his own Party, and forced to pull out.

9 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:48:03pm

OT: Save us, Chuck Woolery!

Srsly?

10 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:48:37pm
11 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:50:05pm

Remember, the GOP lost only 8 seats in the 2012 elections.

Obama didn't have the coat tails he needed (and he himself lost around 5 million voters from 2008 to 2012.)

All of this means the GOP doesn't really have to cave in.

Yes, Boehner has egg on his face, but if he isn't the Speaker in the next session then just another Republican will be, one who may be more ideological than Boehner.

Obstructionism is not going to be a nasty word to a group who fantasize about secession.

Expect worse.

12 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:50:47pm

Someone who understands congress better than me, explain what happens if the Republicans are permanently gerrymandered into the House, but (due to gerrymandered far right moron districts) are incapable of passing legislation ever again.

So does this mean that the government runs out of money and crashes?

Do all money bills have to start in the House?

It the US ruined, shit out of luck?

Do they "win" by being incapable of breathing without choking to death on their tongues? Ie, the end of everything that makes the US modern? Are we on the way back to the 19th century, except that since we have a 21st century sized population and have to compete with 21st century countries, we just turn 3rd world and starve?

13 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:52:09pm

re: #12 stabby

This will continue until enough lazy Americans actually vote up at the polls and elects a workable government.

14 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:52:18pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Very possible. But at this point, I don't think anybody realistically sees how Boehner can continue to be Speaker going forward. He'll have even less wiggle room next year and the Tea Party's likely to exact even greater revenge for his "purges."

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, I agree Boehner is gone. The uncertainty is about "speaker Cantor."

15 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:52:47pm

re: #11 freetoken

Remember, the GOP lost only 8 seats in the 2012 elections.

Obama didn't have the coat tails he needed (and he himself lost around 5 million voters from 2008 to 2012.)

All of this means the GOP doesn't really have to cave in.

Yes, Boehner has egg on his face, but if he isn't the Speaker in the next session then just another Republican will be, one who may be more ideological than Boehner.

Obstructionism is not going to be a nasty word to a group who fantasize about secession.

Expect worse.

I don't really expect better, I expect to go through the next two years watching the GOP continue to fragment and fight amongst itself while the country falls apart. I pretty much expect we'll end up in recession again.

16 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:52:52pm

Not necessarily a sign of the EOW, but my print won't print anything. Says something about document lost in the "filter". But the platen keeps moving back and forth every few minutes on it's own accord.

17 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:53:42pm

re: #13 freetoken

This will continue until enough lazy Americans actually vote up at the polls and elects a workable government.

And if Americans are too derped to ever do that?

If the right stays the right and keeps the house forever what happens?

If you can answer my question, then answer it.

18 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:53:50pm

re: #14 kirkspencer

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, I agree Boehner is gone. The uncertainty is about "speaker Cantor."

And I agree, Cantor's not a lock. I'm curious as to who will get the nod if not him.

19 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:53:53pm

re: #11 freetoken

Remember, the GOP lost only 8 seats in the 2012 elections.

Obama didn't have the coat tails he needed (and he himself lost around 5 million voters from 2008 to 2012.)

All of this means the GOP doesn't really have to cave in.

Yes, Boehner has egg on his face, but if he isn't the Speaker in the next session then just another Republican will be, one who may be more ideological than Boehner.

Obstructionism is not going to be a nasty word to a group who fantasize about secession.

Expect worse.

I seem to remember going thru this with the last administration too. Isn't it a cyclical thing, like cicadas?

20 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:54:10pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

I pretty much expect we'll end up in recession again.

Or worse.

The GOP in the Senate has blocked many nominees for positions, and they can continue to do this until the Democrats can get 60 bodies.

21 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:54:59pm

Doubt that Cantor would do any better. The GOP is so screwed up with their policy prescription for the country that even the slightest move towards allowing tax rates to revert to the pre-2001 levels for anyone (and especially the rich) is grounds for what's essentially open revolt. And that's despite the fact that Congress has already agreed three times to allow the tax rate reductions to expire.

2001 EGTRRA - called on the rates to expire after 2010.
2003 JGTRRA - accelerated the tax cuts, but maintained the expiration of the rate reductions after 2010.

2010 tax act extended the 2001/2003 rate reductions (among other provisions) for two more years.

All three acts were passed by Congress and signed by successive Presidents.

Many of those who signed the 2001 and 2003 acts also signed the 2010 act.

They all know what they were doing - the GOP was trying to starve the beast (aka the government). And that includes Boehner.

22 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:55:10pm

re: #20 freetoken

Or worse.

The GOP in the Senate has blocked many nominees for positions, and they can continue to do this until the Democrats can get 60 bodies.

At this point, all I can hope for is that the GOP does so much damage to their brand in the coming two years that 2014 will see the end they getting slapped down hard.

23 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:56:13pm

re: #20 freetoken

Or worse.

The GOP in the Senate has blocked many nominees for positions, and they can continue to do this until the Democrats can get 60 bodies.

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

24 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:58:14pm

re: #23 stabby

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

The quality of our cooking increases and we live surrounded by wonderful art and architecture. The Italians manage.

25 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:58:34pm

re: #23 stabby

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

I expect we'll find out by direct observation. History isn't much help here.

Technically, we'll at least have a government, it will just be incapable of agreeing on anything.

26 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:59:16pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

Can I be banned from this site for cussing another commenter out, because I certainly want to.

27 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:59:29pm

re: #9 makeitstop

OT: Save us, Chuck Woolery!

Srsly?

WTF is that?

28 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 6:59:54pm

I hope Boehner gets replaced by the biggest Wingnut they can find. Full blown Evangelical Science denying loon, so they destroy the GOP utterly and completely.

29 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:07pm

re: #26 stabby

Can I be banned from this site for cussing another commenter out, because I certainly want to.

You get points for style and accuracy.

30 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:09pm

Underlying all of this is the fact that they want to cut medicare and social security, but don't want to be the ones seen as proposing it, creating the bill, and voting for it. They want some face saving legislative smoke screen devices employed that will allow them to say "Obama cut Social Security" in 2014.

31 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:23pm

re: #25 EPR-radar

Isn't it true that money bills have to start in the House?

What happens if we don't have any.

Come on, does no one know our government (better than me, please)?

What are the rules, what are we in for?

32 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:30pm

re: #23 stabby

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

Let me consult my crystal ball.

...

Bronies.

33 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:36pm

re: #23 stabby

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

Not a whole lot. We are not in a Parliamentary system. Both the Executive branch and the Judicial branch have powers that exist independent of Congress.

Courts have proven to be able to levy taxies to correct injustices.

The executive branch can not raise taxes without Congress, but that doesn't mean they can't spend on credit. It's been proposed before - IOU's backed by the vast deposits (on paper) of the various federal retirement programs.

34 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:00:36pm

The GOP has gotten so small and mean. Yesterday, I got to watch Lincoln, which is about a debate about something that really mattered, the 13th Amendment, when the GOP was on the side of the angels. Its a wonderful movie and everyone should see it if only for Daniel Day-Lewis' amazing performance as Lincoln.

As a personal matter, I got a little thrill reading about George Yeaman, a Kentucky Democratic Congressman who was portrayed in the movie as opposing slavery but was opposed to the 13th Amendment due to his concern about the effect of suddenly liberating millions of slaves. Lincoln talked to him, and he ultimately decided to vote yes, providing one of the democratic votes needed to pass the Amendment through the House. As a Kentuckian, I was pleased that we had a congressman who voted for the 13th amendment, and I saw he had been a lawyer and judge in Owensboro, Kentucky, my old home town, where yesterday I had been hearing an administrative case and where I saw the movie. I'm pleased to no end that a lawyer from my hometown did the right thing on the single most important vote he would ever take in his life.

35 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:01:45pm

re: #30 Randall Gross

Underlying all of this is the fact that they want to cut medicare and social security, but don't want to be the ones seen as proposing it, creating the bill, and voting for it. They want some face saving legislative smoke screen devices employed that will allow them to say "Obama cut Social Security" in 2014.

Yeah, they pretty much leaped over that cliff like the lemmings they are. The budget cut bill that Boehner created just to entice votes for "Plan B"? The one that passed by a thin margin before "Plan B" failed? Rachel Maddow pretty much laid it out tonight: It was a GOP wish list of all the cuts they want to make.

36 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:02:40pm

re: #23 stabby

If the US federal government becomes as unworkable as the Italian one used to be (incapable of forming governments for years on end), what happens?

Youtube Video
37 blueraven  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:02:46pm
UPDATE (8:52PM ET): Futures are off of there lows. But they're still low. Dow futures are down 182 points, and S&P futures are down 19 points. Here's a look at Dow futures via FinViz: UPDATE (8:22 PM ET): The sell-off is accelerating. Dow futures are now down 250. S&P futures are down 25 points. For a full rundown of what happened, > UPDATE (8:07 PM ET): Boehner has pulled the Plan B vote after being unable to get enough votes. Futures are tumbling further.

[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

38 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:03:30pm

re: #37 blueraven

The Party of Business.

39 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:03:47pm

re: #27 Holidays are Family Fun Time

WTF is that?

Some wingnut on a Facebook politics group posted the assault weapons video.

Are they really so desperate for justification of their gun worship that they'll look to a game show host for it?

Chuck Woolery??? What the fuck does he know?

40 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:04:11pm

I remember way back, I think in the 80's, when I was part of the military-industrial complex and the budget wasn't passed and we were all wondering from where our paycheck was going to come... and we were told not to worry because there was enough "slush" in the system to keep the juice flowing for quite some while.

41 Gus  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:04:16pm

Cripes. Woolery is such a moron. The 2nd Amendment wasn't included to "protect the American people" from the founders. It was written to maintain a militia or a national guard if you will to defend us from foreign any threat, either foreign or domestic.

42 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:05:17pm

re: #30 Randall Gross

Underlying all of this is the fact that they want to cut medicare and social security, but don't want to be the ones seen as proposing it, creating the bill, and voting for it. They want some face saving legislative smoke screen devices employed that will allow them to say "Obama cut Social Security" in 2014.

Yep, I tried pointing this out over at PJ media.

All the cuss at Obama for not proposing to gut SS and Medicare means that the Republicans have to OWN destroying the elderly poor if that's what they're going to insist on. I said, "that's what you want but you don't have the guts to actually put your names on a proposal. You don't have the guts to take the heat, so you're insisting that Obama do it for you. He TRIED negotiating with himself before by proposing the most far right wing version of everything he wanted and all that happened was that the Republicans had to sprint further right than Hitler to avoid making any deals. You know that if you propose what you've been demanding all along you're going to get yourselves voted out. You don't have the guts"

I got no answer.

43 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:06:26pm

re: #39 makeitstop

Some wingnut on a Facebook politics group posted the assault weapons video.

Are they really so desperate for justification of their gun worship that they'll look to a game show host for it?

Chuck Woolery??? What the fuck does he know?

Bob Barker is an expert on pet neutering!

44 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:07:19pm

re: #43 dragonath

Bob Barker is an expert on pet neutering!

But your pet doesn't have to feel unwhole...

[Link: www.neuticles.com...]

45 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:08:33pm

re: #44 Randall Gross

But your pet doesn't have to feel unwhole...

[Link: www.neuticles.com...]

Damn, Boehner's gonna need a pair of those come January.

46 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:08:52pm

re: #31 stabby

Isn't it true that money bills have to start in the House?

What happens if we don't have any.

Come on, does no one know our government (better than me, please)?

What are the rules, what are we in for?

I don't believe that any budget has passed for several years. Federal programs have continued anyway. The country will muddle through somehow.

47 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:09:02pm

re: #32 dragonath

Let me consult my crystal ball.

...

Bronies.

Youtube Video
48 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:09:40pm

The next note Boehner hands Obama will just say "HELP I am being held hostage"

49 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:10:20pm

re: #42 stabby

Yep, I tried pointing this out over at PJ media.

You have a penchant for brick walls?

50 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:10:57pm

I picked that as the least appropriate song for mlp
No doubt there are others like that

51 EmmaAnne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:12:01pm

re: #17 stabby

And if Americans are too derped to ever do that?

If the right stays the right and keeps the house forever what happens?

If you can answer my question, then answer it.

I'll take a stab at this (heh). If one part of the government stops functioning, another part will step up. If Congress can't keep the government running, the executive branch will.

Example: Congress is supposed to declare war. But usually they don't want to. So the President does it instead (perhaps calling the war a police action or some such). When legislatures can't agree on redistricting plans, the courts do it.

52 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:12:08pm

re: #46 aagcobb

I don't believe that any budget has passed for several years. Federal programs have continued anyway. The country will muddle through somehow.

They've continued but they've suffered greatly from the political difficulties. Federal agencies aren't set up to deal with this never-ending crazy quilt of budget crises. They seriously need the budget process to get back to a semi-normal pace.

53 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:12:33pm

re: #26 stabby

Can I be banned from this site for cussing another commenter out, because I certainly want to.

Only if the commentator you're cussing out is me.

54 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:13:26pm

re: #46 aagcobb

I don't believe that any budget has passed for several years. Federal programs have continued anyway. The country will muddle through somehow.

I notice that not a single Republican at any level down to lowly dittohead has ever admitted that the reason we haven't had a budget is that the House is opposed to passing anything that would be acceptable to the White House, the Senate, the Democrats or the American people as a whole. They've gone stark raving lunatic stupid bozo incompetent, granny-starving tea-kkk nazi

55 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:13:42pm

I garr-UN-tee Congress Critters will continue to get their pay checks.

56 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:13:52pm

Stabby, the real answer is that it can't go on for years. Partly because of the system we've got in place, even.

Here's the biggest thing: both the house and the senate must agree upon, and the president must sign, the paycheck bill for the congresscritters. There are a few more such bills, things like paying military paychecks and authorizing medicare and social security checks, that absolutely must pass. Add one more element: each house may completely amend a bill received from the other. There is complete precedence for the senate using a house spending bill's number and "amending" it such that it becomes a completely different bill on an entirely different subject - but spends money.

Obviously the house would re-amend, and it would go back and forth a few times. But the thing is they are must pass, and a couple of them would really leave Republicans stuck come next election. Or even current pay -- remember that while the Senate is mostly filled with millionaires, the house is not.

It would hurt. It would be ugly. I don't see it lasting more than two years at most, and in reality only a few months.

57 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:13:55pm
Rep. Steven C. LaTourette, R-Ohio, said Boehner told him that he would call Obama to see about the way forward. But it is clear that his negotiating leverage is tarnished and Republicans may inevitably have to swallow a fiscal cliff deal that heavily skews toward the president’s demands.

“It weakens the entire Republican Party, the Republican majority. It’s the continuing dumbing-down of the Republican Party and we are going to be seen more and more as a bunch of extremists that can’t even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we’re putting forward,” LaTourette said.

looooooool

58 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:14:30pm

re: #51 EmmaAnne

I'll take a stab at this (heh). If one part of the government stops functioning, another part will step up. If Congress can't keep the government running, the executive branch will.

Example: Congress is supposed to declare war. But usually they don't want to. So the President does it instead (perhaps calling the war a police action or some such). When legislatures can't agree on redistricting plans, the courts do it.

In this case the executive is actually barred by the Constitution from spending money that has not been appropriated by Congress. There are some emergency exceptions, but if budgeted monies run out then most federal agencies have to close and cannot reopen until Congress appropriates them some money.

59 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:14:30pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

They've continued but they've suffered greatly from the political difficulties. Federal agencies aren't set up to deal with this never-ending crazy quilt of budget crises. They seriously need the budget process to get back to a semi-normal pace.

I agree this is not optimum. That is why I said we'll muddle through.

60 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:15:02pm

Boehner's got only three choices left, each worse than the last.

- First choice is to crawl back to the White House and try to work a deal that can garner Dem support in the House. Basically picture that point in any episode of Deal or No Deal where the last big number has been taken off the board and the offer crashes through the floor. Boehner will likely help avoid major economic disaster, but he can kiss his speakership goodbye.

- Second choice is to put up the Senate bill extending all tax cuts up to $250K, which has solid Dem support, again leaving him trying to pull together Republican votes. He'll save some face, but the sequester and all the related bad juju will still crash down on our heads Jan 1st.

- Third choice is just to throw caution to the wind, let us go sailing over the cliff, and then hope he can somehow save his speakership. Economic catastrophe, assurance that White House will not be willing to negotiate, but he might possibly remain in his seat.

61 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:15:54pm

re: #12 stabby

Pretty much it would mean Obama would have to use every tool in the Presidential arsenal to keep things working. Some ideas have been floated around, but they don't seem out of the realm of feasibility at this point.

62 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:16:05pm

re: #31 stabby

Isn't it true that money bills have to start in the House?

What happens if we don't have any.

Come on, does no one know our government (better than me, please)?

What are the rules, what are we in for?

re: #46 aagcobb

I don't believe that any budget has passed for several years. Federal programs have continued anyway. The country will muddle through somehow.

In the absence of a 'real' budget, they pass a 'continuing resolution'., an authorization to continue at present or slightly altered spending levels. A few times (Newt) they tried to force the issue, but had to act within a few days or weeks. I worked through a couple of these, and only had trouble once, when the Army failed to come through to our Italian landlord's rent. On one occasion they "sent us home for a day" but we came to work anyway, and were paid when congress got its act sort of together.

63 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:17:40pm

The lunatics are in charge of the GOP. John Boehner's been trying to ride the tiger, but tonight it became very clear who's really in control: Fox News.

64 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:18:11pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

Boehner's got only three choices left, each worse than the last.

- First choice is to crawl back to the White House and try to work a deal that can garner Dem support in the House. Basically picture that point in any episode of Deal or No Deal where the last big number has been taken off the board and the offer crashes through the floor. Boehner will likely help avoid major economic disaster, but he can kiss his speakership goodbye.

- Second choice is to put up the Senate bill extending all tax cuts up to $250K, which has solid Dem support, again leaving him trying to pull together Republican votes. He'll save some face, but the sequester and all the related bad juju will still crash down on our heads Jan 1st.

- Third choice is just to throw caution to the wind, let us go sailing over the cliff, and then hope he can somehow save his speakership. Economic catastrophe, assurance that White House will not be willing to negotiate, but he might possibly remain in his seat.

Going pass January 1st without a deal will not create an economic catastrophe. It will put pressure on the House to accept a deal which can pass with bipartisan support when people see the new bite out of their first paychecks in January.

65 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:18:16pm

By the time Boehner is done protecting millionaires he will have done so much damage to our economy that those millionaires will wish the GOP had just increased their tax rates instead of deflating the whole economy trying to keep the rates low.

66 freetoken  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:18:29pm

re: #61 Ghost of Tom Joad

As far as hitting the borrowing ceiling, the Federal Reserve will do what they have before : instruct banks to accept Treasury checks at face value and the Fed will give them full credit for them, and the Fed holds the (bouncy) checks until a budget is legal that calls for raising the actual revenue necessary, and then the Fed settles with the Treasury.

67 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:18:43pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

The lunatics are in charge of the GOP. John Boehner's been trying to ride the tiger, but tonight it became very clear who's really in control: Fox News.

68 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:19:19pm

God, Novak was such a chump.

69 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:19:51pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

The lunatics are in charge of the GOP. John Boehner's been trying to ride the tiger, but tonight it became very clear who's really in control: Fox News.

Grover Norquist

70 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:01pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

In this case the executive is actually barred by the Constitution from spending money that has not been appropriated by Congress. There are some emergency exceptions, but if budgeted monies run out then most federal agencies have to close and cannot reopen until Congress appropriates them some money.

Yes, it is within the power of the House to bring things crashing down by not passing the appropriations bills.

However, this probably cannot be done without the Republicans taking the blame for the resulting damage.

The tea party faction probably does want to blow things up, since they've wound themselves up to the point where they probably believe they be greeted with roses in the streets by forcing a complete Federal shutdown.

71 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:03pm

re: #67 Kragar

Wow, way to cheapen the creator of the universe, Robert.

72 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:38pm

re: #68 dragonath

God, Novak was such a chump.

He always reminded me of the mayor of Munchkinland.

73 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:41pm

re: #41 Gus

Cripes. Woolery is such a moron. The 2nd Amendment wasn't included to "protect the American people" from the founders.

I absolutely love that the word choice makes it sound like the Founders sound like immortal abominations that continuously prey upon the citizenry. Except for Immortal Abomination Ben Franklin--he's off pillaging French prostitutes.

74 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:57pm

re: #39 makeitstop

Some wingnut on a Facebook politics group posted the assault weapons video.

Are they really so desperate for justification of their gun worship that they'll look to a game show host for it?

Chuck Woolery??? What the fuck does he know?

Wiki

Born-Again Christian, married 4 times, veteran, articulate, used to be easy on the eyes . . .yeah, I can see how people would love hearing his conservative ideas and thinking he is an Authority.

Kinda like Sean Hannity. It's more about the looks and the attitude than anything else.

*spit*

75 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:20:59pm

re: #67 Kragar

[Embedded content]

At one point, it made sense to cut taxes. Today, I believe tax revenue is only 15% of the GDP; it doesn't make sense anymore.

76 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:21:47pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

The lunatics are in charge of the GOP. John Boehner's been trying to ride the tiger, but tonight it became very clear who's really in control: Fox News.

This needs plus 1000

At times I've been desperate enough to suggest to Republicans that their party has been taken over by a foreigner named Murdoch.

You know the US does have laws against foreign ownership of the media, but Murdoch got around this by becoming a citizen. But the asshole has ruined our political system. We need better than a fucking right wing tabloid destroying the Republican party.

77 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:22:33pm

re: #65 Mich-again

By the time Boehner is done protecting millionaires he will have done so much damage to our economy that those millionaires will wish the GOP had just increased their tax rates instead of deflating the whole economy trying to keep the rates low.

another plus 1000

78 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:25:40pm

re: #65 Mich-again

By the time Boehner is done protecting millionaires he will have done so much damage to our economy that those millionaires will wish the GOP had just increased their tax rates instead of deflating the whole economy trying to keep the rates low.

Why do I keep thinking "petit bourgeois"?

79 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:25:42pm

re: #76 stabby

This needs plus 1000

At times I've been desperate enough to suggest to Republicans that their party has been taken over by a foreigner named Murdock.

You know the US does have laws against foreign ownership of the media, but Murdock got around this by becoming a citizen. But the asshole has ruined our political system. We need better than a fucking right wing tabloid destroying the Republican party.

As far as the real power in the GOP establishment (i.e., the plutocrats) is concerned, ownership of Fox by Murdoch is not an issue. Plutocracy is indifferent to national borders.

Have you ever had any success with the 'evil foreigner' gambit with wing nuts? Alas, my knowledge of the species is limited to reading about them.

80 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:26:25pm

re: #67 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I wonder if Novak said that in jest and Fischer is just taking it seriously. He clearly didn't mean it literally, since anyone who knows history knows that the Republican Party was founded to provide a venue for opposition to the expansion of slavery, as well as to provide a political home for those left without one when the Whig Party imploded.

81 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:26:40pm

It's hard to take tax policy seriously from people who probably believe in mandatory tithing.

82 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:27:56pm

re: #32 dragonath

Not even the magical mystical Bronies can save the GOP in the House.

Bachmann for Speaker.

83 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:28:14pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

I wonder if Novak said that in jest and Fischer is just taking it seriously. He clearly didn't mean it literally, since anyone who knows history knows that the Republican Party was founded to provide a venue for opposition to the expansion of slavery, as well as to provide a political home for those left without one when the Whig Party imploded.

It seems reasonable to take it seriously based on present day domestic GOP priorities. Cutting taxes unreasonably appears to occupy at least positions 1-5 on the top ten list.

84 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:28:40pm

re: #79 EPR-radar

Have you ever had any success with the 'evil foreigner' gambit with wing nuts? Alas, my knowledge of the species is limited to reading about them.

No, they just sputter in rage because they worship Fox.

I think I've had more luck denouncing Mohammad to Jihadis. Some of them think they're more holy than their prophet.

85 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:28:54pm

re: #64 aagcobb

Going pass January 1st without a deal will not create an economic catastrophe. It will put pressure on the House to accept a deal which can pass with bipartisan support when people see the new bite out of their first paychecks in January.

It's fabricated hysteria to get the sheeple to accept being kicked in the balls by a rich guy driving by on his Bentley.

If the Dems are smart, they'll be in front of every available microphone giving America a choice - we want to keep the tax-cuts for those making less than a (Dr. Evil voice) quarter-million dollars while ensuring there are no cuts whatsoever to Social Security, Medicare, or drastic Defense cuts. The Republicans want to cut Medicare, Social Security, health-care all in the name of protecting millionaires and military contractors.

After that, sit back and let Benedict the Bronze come forward with a plan that they will accept in the House, Senate, and White House.

86 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:29:17pm

re: #37 blueraven

[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

As I mentioned downstream, this is the 2012pocolypse. It's December 21st somewhere on this rock. :-D

87 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:29:26pm

Pimp wheel gun for sale. Plated with 2oz of gold. Make an offer.

I don't get why people do this.

88 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:30:47pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

Pimp wheel gun for sale. Plated with 2oz of gold. Make an offer.

I don't get why people do this.

"Make offer."

I offer to chuck it into the nearest body of salt water.

89 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:30:52pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

Pimp wheel gun for sale. Plated with 2oz of gold. Make an offer.

I don't get why people do this.

People like shiny toys.

90 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:31:03pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

Pimp wheel gun for sale. Plated with 2oz of gold. Make an offer.

I don't get why people do this.

err --penis-size compensators?

91 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:31:13pm

re: #39 makeitstop

Some wingnut on a Facebook politics group posted the assault weapons video.

Are they really so desperate for justification of their gun worship that they'll look to a game show host for it?

Chuck Woolery??? What the fuck does he know?

He's a total longtime wingnut.

92 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:32:08pm

re: #81 dragonath

It's hard to take tax policy seriously from people who probably believe in mandatory tithing.

Actually that's a big deal.

I've argued with one very greedy white-nationalist fundimentalist whose real driving motivation is that tithing+taxes is too much money, therefor taxes must be Satan's way of usurping the role of the Church.

These people think that their tithes should be all that ever goes for the poor and elderly, PERIOD

And we're all sinners for competing with the Church.

And that's all a rationalization for "I tithe so God will send me to heaven, I don't care if the money is actually ever useful - fuck the poor they're stealing everything I have."

93 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:32:21pm

re: #85 Ghost of Tom Joad

It's fabricated hysteria to get the sheeple to accept being kicked in the balls by a rich guy driving by on his Bentley.

If the Dems are smart, they'll be in front of every available microphone giving America a choice - we want to keep the tax-cuts for those making less than a (Dr. Evil voice) quarter-million dollars while ensuring there are no cuts whatsoever to Social Security, Medicare, or drastic Defense cuts. The Republicans want to cut Medicare, Social Security, health-care all in the name of protecting millionaires and military contractors.

After that, sit back and let the Benedict the Bronze come forward with a plan that they will accept in the House, Senate, and White House.

Works for me. I'm enjoying the apparent effectiveness of the Democrats at this time.

(I'm reminded of a favorite political cartoon of mine. A bunch of donkeys standing around looking at an X-ray picture of a spine. "Sweet Jesus, what is that?")

Apparently spines have been located, for the moment.

94 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:32:42pm

In very rough terms Defense makes up 23% of the budget. Pensions 23%, Health care 24%.

So $7 of every $10 spent goes for wars, old people and sick people.

95 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:32:43pm

BTW, Novak was the guy who outed Valerie Plame.

96 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:33:37pm

re: #88 Kragar

"Make offer."

I offer to chuck it into the nearest body of salt water.

Nah, it's likely still a good S&W .38. It's a good revolver design.

97 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:34:13pm

re: #85 Ghost of Tom Joad

It's fabricated hysteria to get the sheeple to accept being kicked in the balls by a rich guy driving by on his Bentley.

I'm very angry at the media and dems for not questioning that the "fiscal cliff" will cause a recession.

We DO need to cut the military, we do need to raise taxes etc.
Why don't we START with the sequester?

98 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:34:26pm

re: #95 dragonath

BTW, Novak was the guy who outed Valerie Plame.

Apparently, his nickname is "prince of darkness". I suppose this is a compliment in wingnut world.

99 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:34:35pm

Now That's What I Call Gerrymandering!

Americans didn't intend to elect a Republican majority to the House of Representatives. Thanks to GOP-engineered redistricting, they did.

100 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:34:49pm

Totally out of left field, but has anybody heard if Australia's still there?

101 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:35:02pm

Well maybe it goes too far by overtaxing the lower classes.

But does it have any other faults? Really?

102 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:35:46pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Works for me. I'm enjoying the apparent effectiveness of the Democrats at this time.

(I'm reminded of a favorite political cartoon of mine. A bunch of donkeys standing around looking at an X-ray picture of a spine. "Sweet Jesus, what is that?")

Apparently spines have been located, for the moment.

It has reached a point where they have no choice. There are no significant cuts you can make to the domestic federal budget which won't cause human suffering. Sure, you could zero out PBS, but that's a rounding error.

103 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:35:58pm

re: #90 Holidays are Family Fun Time

err --penis-size compensators?

Sometimes, but at other times its just a love of 'bling'. General George S. Patton had a .38 S&W, though his was more practically finished, then engraved and fitted with an ivory handle.

104 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:36:04pm

re: #100 Targetpractice

Totally out of left field, but has anybody heard if Australia's still there?

Yes, all is good.

But the weather is ominous in Chicagoland.

105 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:36:06pm

re: #99 jaunte

Now That's What I Call Gerrymandering!

Yep, the Republican party would cease to exist if not for gerrymandering.

106 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:36:47pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

Apparently, his nickname is "prince of darkness". I suppose this is a compliment in wingnut world.

'Was', as Mr. Novak is no longer living.

107 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:36:48pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

Apparently, his nickname is "prince of darkness". I suppose this is a compliment in wingnut world.

Doesn't Ozzie get a little perturbed about that?

108 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:36:52pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

Nah, it's likely still a good S&W .38. It's a good revolver design.

The thing about plated guns is that the finish always peals at the muzzle. You can't shoot 'em without fuckin' up the fancy.

109 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:37:30pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

I've heard "Novacula" in numerous places.

110 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:37:33pm

re: #102 aagcobb

It has reached a point where they have no choice. There are no significant cuts you can make to the domestic federal budget which won't cause human suffering. Sure, you could zero out PBS, but that's a rounding error.

WE could take some of the defense budget and start public works projects to rebuild our infrastructure. Earmark it as Homeland Security or some other Pentagon line item. Lots of money there.

I know, I'm not helping.

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:37:51pm

re: #107 kirkspencer

Doesn't Ozzie get a little perturbed about that?

I'd ask, but I'd need a translator.

112 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:37:59pm

re: #92 stabby

I don't doubt that many of these people have the same kind of pagan mindset that led to churches selling indulgences.

Except in those days, I guess, God didn't take fiat money.

113 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:38:14pm

re: #105 stabby

Yep, the Republican party would cease to exist if not for gerrymandering.

It's only the Republicans who pull that shit. You should see the shame district-rigging done by Illinois Democrats.

I HATE gerrymandering, no matter who does it.

114 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:38:41pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Sometimes, but at other times its just a love of 'bling'. General George S. Patton had a .38 S&W, though his was more practically finished, then engraved and fitted with an ivory handle.

I actually understand the Ivory handle thing. it's a material that is pleasing to touch and isn't slippery. It will wear to the users hand if used enough. It has a practical aspect to it.

115 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:39:05pm

Heh.

116 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:39:21pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

re: #46 aagcobb

In the absence of a 'real' budget, they pass a 'continuing resolution'., an authorization to continue at present or slightly altered spending levels. A few times (Newt) they tried to force the issue, but had to act within a few days or weeks. I worked through a couple of these, and only had trouble once, when the Army failed to come through to our Italian landlord's rent. On one occasion they "sent us home for a day" but we came to work anyway, and were paid when congress got its act sort of together.

The only problem with that is the sequester which has massive spending cuts which will seriously negatively impact the economy for several months.

117 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:39:38pm

I don't blame God, I blame shitheads like Bryan Fischer.

118 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:39:41pm

re: #115 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Heh.

I'm not so sure the Dow will consider it "victory" tomorrow.

119 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:39:44pm

re: #110 Holidays are Family Fun Time

WE could take some of the defense budget and start public works projects to rebuild our infrastructure. Earmark it as Homeland Security or some other Pentagon line item. Lots of money there.

I know, I'm not helping.

Well, if they pulled money out of ridiculous bullshit like the F35 (quiet DF, we know you like your toys of overpriced destruction), we could pay for a lot of things.

120 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:40:25pm

re: #105 stabby

Yep, the Republican party would cease to exist if not for gerrymandering.

Both parties gerrymander when they can. The Democrats should not unilaterally disarm. CA should have had a Dem gerrymander in place to prevent any GOP members in the entire Federal House delegation, if possible. Instead, we have a goo-goo (abbreviation for good government used by partisans of both sides) redistricting scheme in CA that is not as bad as a GOP gerrymander would have been, but not as useful as a Democratic one would have been.

The problem is that 2010 was a wave election for the GOP and a redistricting year. That is the combination that hurts.

121 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:40:30pm

re: #115 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Heh.

Youtube Video
122 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:40:39pm

re: #110 Holidays are Family Fun Time

WE could take some of the defense budget and start public works projects to rebuild our infrastructure. Earmark it as Homeland Security or some other Pentagon line item. Lots of money there.

I know, I'm not helping.

Yahoo News ran something of a misleading headline and had the pitchfork brigade going after some preventative disaster infrastructure appropriations this morning.

123 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:40:54pm

re: #115 jaunte

If that's victory, what the hell do they consider losing?

124 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:41:18pm

re: #92 stabby

Actually that's a big deal.

I've argued with one very greedy white-nationalist fundimentalist whose real driving motivation is that tithing+taxes is too much money, therefor taxes must be Satan's way of usurping the role of the Church.

These people think that their tithes should be all that ever goes for the poor and elderly, PERIOD

And we're all sinners for competing with the Church.

And that's all a rationalization for "I tithe so God will send me to heaven, I don't care if the money is actually ever useful - fuck the poor they're stealing everything I have."

A Baptist Church near me put on their church sign that since 10% is enough for god its enough for the government.

125 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:41:24pm

re: #123 Ghost of Tom Joad

"It's only a head flesh wound!"

126 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:41:56pm

re: #123 Ghost of Tom Joad

If that's victory, what the hell do they consider losing?

Being able to provide for a family on minimum wage.

127 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:42:14pm

re: #123 Ghost of Tom Joad

If that's victory, what the hell do they consider losing?

Making a deal with Obama.

128 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:43:27pm

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

The thing about plated guns is that the finish always peals at the muzzle. You can't shoot 'em without fuckin' up the fancy.

I know. I once saw a picture of Uday Hussein's gold-plated AKM in US Army custody after Uday and his brother Qusay were killed in 2003. The plating of the compensator was completely gone and much of it on the barrel was also gone, and the fore grip had visible scorch marks where it had touched the barrel. But true to Gen. Kalashnikov's intent, the AKM had remained fully functional, even after its user was blown away by a TOW-2 ATGM.

129 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:43:47pm

In line with the last two comments:

Black people/hispanics not starving to death or dying of preventable diseases.

130 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:44:03pm

re: #116 Joanne

The only problem with that is the sequester which has massive spending cuts which will seriously negatively impact the economy for several months.

I don't think it will. I expect that the severe negative reaction from the public to the new tax bites out of their first January paychecks will produce a deal pretty quickly, with little impact on the economy.

131 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:44:12pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Works for me. I'm enjoying the apparent effectiveness of the Democrats at this time.

(I'm reminded of a favorite political cartoon of mine. A bunch of donkeys standing around looking at an X-ray picture of a spine. "Sweet Jesus, what is that?")

Apparently spines have been located, for the moment.

Spine Insertion surgery was covered under Obamacare.

132 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:44:49pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

It's only the Republicans who pull that shit. You should see the shame district-rigging done by Illinois Democrats.

I HATE gerrymandering, no matter who does it.

You'll love this then

The GOP's Electoral College Scheme

Gerrymandering electoral votes, because they can't win national elections.

133 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:44:52pm

re: #104 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Yes, all is good.

But the weather is ominous in Chicagoland.

Kind regards.. Winter has arrived in Oklahoma..Mostly just cold ass winds

134 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:45:18pm

re: #123 Ghost of Tom Joad

If that's victory, what the hell do they consider losing?

Any tax increase at all, on anyone.

135 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:45:30pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

Spine Insertion surgery was covered under Obamacare.

can I have a new one???????

One that doesn't hurt???

136 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:45:34pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

Spine Insertion surgery was covered under Obamacare.

Is having a heart three sizes too small also covered? If so, some congress critters could use some referrals.

137 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:46:19pm

re: #136 EPR-radar

Is having a heart three sizes too small also covered? If so, some congress critters could use some referrals.

I want eyes that don't need glasses and sinus cavities that are not dysfunctional.

138 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:46:51pm

J. Rubin disagrees with Erick, son of Erick:

139 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:04pm

re: #110 Holidays are Family Fun Time

WE could take some of the defense budget and start public works projects to rebuild our infrastructure. Earmark it as Homeland Security or some other Pentagon line item. Lots of money there.

I know, I'm not helping.

I'd say relocate one military base from somewhere in the world to Detroit. Set up camp in a one square mile area, help the remaining residents to relocate elsewhere in the city and then bulldoze all the blight flat and when that's done then move camp over a mile.

140 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:33pm

re: #134 aagcobb

Any tax increase at all, on anyone.

My bad, any tax increase on a rich person; they would love to raise taxes on the poor.

141 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:45pm

re: #132 dragonath

You'll love this then

The GOP's Electoral College Scheme

Gerrymandering electoral votes, because they can't win national elections.

Biggest dick move I've seen in a while. The proposal is that Blue states with GOP rule at the state level (MI, WI, PA) allocate 1 EV to each congressional district, +2 at large EVs for the statewide winner.

142 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:45pm

re: #138 jaunte

J. Rubin disagrees with Erick, son of Erick:

[Embedded content]

I'm going to pray for self-immolation by the tea-party caucus in defiance of Boehner.

143 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:46pm
144 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:47:58pm

OT:

I had an interesting idea today.

What if we took the computer-technical trader advantage out of the market by trading in 30 minute blocks.

prices are published:
everyone has 20 minutes to respond with their new trades/updates
every trade received in those 20 minutes gets equal priority, randomized order
the market computers have 10 minutes to execute those 20 minutes of orders and publish the results

then it starts over.

so slow that the computers have no advantage over people
and there's no point putting machines within nanoseconds of the exchange.

145 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:48:06pm

re: #138 jaunte

J. Rubin disagrees with Erick, son of Erick:

[Embedded content]

Working with Democrats, if they wanna avoid going over the cliff.

See, Jennifer, this is the point where the GOP puckers up and kisses Obama's ass.

146 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:48:09pm

re: #137 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I want eyes that don't need glasses and sinus cavities that are not dysfunctional.

I want plumbing that works.

147 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:48:39pm

Rubin:

"When I posed the question “What next?” to several senior Republicans, the answer came back, ” I really don’t know” or “Good question.” What we do know is that House Republicans may have confirmed the good judgment of the American people in keeping divided government. Goodness knows none of these people can be trusted."

148 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:49:00pm

re: #124 aagcobb

A Baptist Church near me put on their church sign that since 10% is enough for god its enough for the government.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is Gods.

149 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:49:56pm

re: #141 EPR-radar

Biggest dick move I've seen in a while. The proposal is that Blue states with GOP rule at the state level (MI, WI, PA) allocate 1 EV to each congressional district, +2 at large vote for the statewide winner.

Also known as electing people based on how much acreage your voters cover not how many voters your have.

150 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:51:04pm

re: #124 aagcobb

A Baptist Church near me put on their church sign that since 10% is enough for god its enough for the government.

I feel the same way about clever church homilies as I do about ticks and Republicans.

151 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:51:10pm

re: #130 aagcobb

I don't think it will. I expect that the severe negative reaction from the public to the new tax bites out of their first January paychecks will produce a deal pretty quickly, with little impact on the economy.

The government buys a lot of stuff. They support business small and large. They will be severely restricted from buying stuff, which will impact the economy far more than my taxes going up two or three grand. That's peanuts to the economy. Government buying shit, or rather its inability to do so, has a huge impact. And not a good one.

152 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:51:20pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

Pimp wheel gun for sale. Plated with 2oz of gold. Make an offer.

I don't get why people do this.

What a waste of a Model 15.

153 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:51:33pm

re: #148 A Man for all Seasons

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is Gods.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

154 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:51:44pm

re: #149 jamesfirecat

Also known as electing people based on how much acreage your voters cover not how many votes your have.

Meanwhile, of course, the red state EVs will remain winner take all. Pure win for the GOP.

National popular vote would do away with this garbage.

155 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:53:08pm

re: #154 EPR-radar

Meanwhile, of course, the red state EVs will remain winner take all. Pure win for the GOP.

National popular vote would do away with this garbage.

Just til they go blue, which is what Texas is on track to do in the next decade or two.

156 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:54:27pm

re: #151 Joanne

The government buys a lot of stuff. They support business small and large. They will be severely restricted from buying stuff, which will impact the economy far more than my taxes going up two or three grand. That's peanuts to the economy. Government buying shit, or rather its inability to do so, has a huge impact. And not a good one.

They will be restricted until a deal is made, which I expect to happen very quickly. If a deal isn't in place before the end of January, the House GOP is even more insane than I think it is. They aren't all Tea Partiers; they just need enough Republicans to vote with the Democrats to approve a deal.

157 wilburs  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:54:37pm

The real problem is that there is no republican majority, they have a coalition that includes 40 or so tea party anarchists who are not interested in anything other then eliminating taxes, gays and abortions.
If this drags on long enough, "moderate" republicans from the north and midwest will end up working with moderate democrats to come up with a solution that is acceptable to the Senate and President, and that will be that.
The death knell is sounding for the republican party

158 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:55:38pm

re: #157 wilburs

The death knell is sounding for the republican party

Image: F31048.jpg

159 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:55:53pm

re: #157 wilburs

40 or so tea party anarchists

"the Gohmerts"

160 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:55:55pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

Just til they go blue, which is what Texas is on track to do in the next decade or two.

That's why it is important to make voters so disgusted with the political process that they only vote in presidential elections (or, better yet, don't vote at all). Then stealth wing nuts running low profile in off years can change the rules to whatever works best for the Republicans.

161 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:56:56pm

re: #158 dragonath

Image: F31048.jpg

[Link: inception.davepedu.com...]

162 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:57:54pm

re: #156 aagcobb

They will be restricted until a deal is made, which I expect to happen very quickly. If a deal isn't in place before the end of January, the House GOP is even more insane than I think it is. They aren't all Tea Partiers; they just need enough Republicans to vote with the Democrats to approve a deal.

You have more faith in the GOP than me. I think they're all absolutely and completely batshit insane beyond repair. They care about power not governing. They care for the uber rich and no one else. They get what they ask for then demand more. They want an Obama failure more than American success. They've shown that. Over and over.

163 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 7:58:28pm

Speaking of gerrymandered districts I just had a good idea for fighting them.

Go through the southerm Republican states and count the black people grouped into the consolidated Democratic districts, count the white people in Republican districts.

Divide the number of representatives by the number of voters for them. Then divide Democrat over Republican.

I bet that blacks are back down to counting for less than the original 5/8th of a person in the House!

164 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:00:09pm

re: #157 wilburs

The real problem is that there is no republican majority, they have a coalition that includes 40 or so tea party anarchists who are not interested in anything other then eliminating taxes, gays and abortions.
If this drags on long enough, "moderate" republicans from the north and midwest will end up working with moderate democrats to come up with a solution that is acceptable to the Senate and President, and that will be that.
The death knell is sounding for the republican party

It ends not with a bang, but with a whimper.

165 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:00:29pm

re: #157 wilburs

The real problem is that there is no republican majority...

"The real problem is that there is no republican majority" that is showing up for the primary

If they fix the way their primaries work then there can be a real Republican party again. They need the non-crazies to show up en-mass and swamp out the crazy fuckers.

Of course I can't say if there's any way to make that possible.

166 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:00:32pm

Well folks, 1 hour left to go until the zombie apocalypse here on the East Coast.

Youtube Video
167 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:00:39pm

re: #162 Joanne

You have more faith in the GOP than me. I think they're all absolutely and completely batshit insane beyond repair. They care about power not governing. They care for the uber rich and no one else. They get what they ask for then demand more. They want an Obama failure more than American success. They've shown that. Over and over.

I agree, but they have no power if they are voted out of office. It will become clear very quickly from the phone calls, emails and texts that will pour in that the voters are blaming them for their higher taxes. Plus after January 1st, a vote won't raise taxes, since taxes will have already gone up, so they will be able to vote for a deal without being excommunicated by Pope Norquist.

168 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:01:12pm

Well, if it means anything, Obama is the first president since Reagan to win more than 50% of the vote in successive elections.

169 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:01:13pm

re: #162 Joanne

You have more faith in the GOP than me. I think they're all absolutely and completely batshit insane beyond repair. They care about power not governing. They care for the uber rich and no one else. They get what they ask for then demand more. They want an Obama failure more than American success. They've shown that. Over and over.

The only hope for getting sanity out of the GOP is to convince the plutocrats that the GOP political theater is bad for business. That what I thought was useful about Obama talking to the Business Roundtable recently.

170 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:01:22pm

re: #166 Targetpractice

Youtube Video
171 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:01:58pm

re: #165 stabby

"The real problem is that there is no republican majority" that is showing up for the primary

If they fix the way their primaries work then there can be a real Republican party again. They need the non-crazies to show up en-mass and swamp out the crazy fuckers.

Of course I can't say if there's any way to make that possible.

They also need non crazy candidates who aren't empty cyphers for the top 1%....


Well I guess they have John Huntsman.....

172 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:02:59pm

The economy is based on confidence. You can't fix the economy by destroying confidence in it.

173 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:03:26pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

They also need non crazy candidates who aren't empty cyphers for the top 1%....

Well I guess they have John Huntsman.....

Huntsman is not crazy. However, he is a creature of the plutocrats (no capital gains tax was his proposal, IIRC).

174 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:03:36pm

re: #172 Mich-again

The economy is based on confidence. You can't fix the economy by destroying confidence in it.

But... Job creators... Jesus... Guns?

175 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:04:38pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

Well it was an incumbent year. No one with two brain cells to rub together was gonna throw away his career by running.

176 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:05:09pm

re: #165 stabby

Down the road a bit, I think what we'll see is that the blue dogs, or conservative Dems, will eventually become a much bigger bloc. The non-crazy Repubs will switch to Dem in somewhat conservative areas and continue to beat the batshit primary winners on the Rep side. Hopefully in time we will see the crazies get voted out enough so that Congress can actually function and do its job. We'll still have the crazies, and maybe there will be a strong Dem majority, but it won't be any sort of super-majority, nor will they vote as 1 group because many will still lean conservative.

But hopefully it'll at least function.

177 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:05:10pm

re: #173 EPR-radar

Huntsman is not crazy. However, he is a creature of the plutocrats (no capital gains tax was his proposal, IIRC).

I believe he talked about getting rid of the EPA too. I don't think Huntsman is a bad guy but it really is a sad reflection of the modern GOP that he's seen as a moderate for them.

178 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:05:26pm

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

179 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:05:55pm

re: #162 Joanne

You have more faith in the GOP than me. I think they're all absolutely and completely batshit insane beyond repair. They care about power not governing. They care for the uber rich and no one else. They get what they ask for then demand more. They want an Obama failure more than American success. They've shown that. Over and over.

I've been hoping for some serious reform in the GOP. After 2008 I'm not sure it's possible..They solidified behind Hard core positions and now demand purity in their worldview.

180 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:06:00pm

re: #178 dragonath

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

I thought it was zombies we were concerned about --Planet 9 and al . . .

181 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:06:08pm

re: #178 dragonath

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

Ping pong balls.

182 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:06:11pm

re: #178 dragonath

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

Silver and Gold?
Image: Yukon-Cornelius-on-mountain.jpg

183 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:06:17pm

re: #175 stabby

Well it was an incumbent year. No one with two brain cells to rub together was gonna throw away his career by running.

Obama had a weak economy. By all normal measures, he was relatively vulnerable for an incumbent.

Also, where are the GOP contenders with multiple firing neurons?

184 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:06:46pm

re: #178 dragonath

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

Bow and Silver Arrow.

185 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:07:27pm

re: #178 dragonath

How am I going to stop all these werewolves prowling around my house if the Democrats ban guns?

Drop big-screen televisions on them.

186 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:08:07pm

re: #185 jaunte

Drop big-screen televisions on them.

Sure, go ahead and advocate genocide.

187 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:08:20pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Hey, it's Blacque Jacque Shellacque!

Image: Blacque.jpg

188 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:08:50pm

re: #183 EPR-radar

Obama had a weak economy. By all normal measures, he was relatively vulnerable for an incumbent.

Also, where are the GOP contenders with multiple firing neurons?

I don't know if it's a good sign that no one smart took the bait to run against Obama.

It either implies that the smart Republicans knew that the tea party flash was a trap

Or it implies that there are no smart Republicans (maybe apart from Chris Christie)

189 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:08:58pm

The problem if you ask me is there's no sizable group within the GOP thinking that they need to change their image. Even as the Dems were being landslided in the 80's. There was groundwork for a new Democratic Party. The Republicans talk amongst themselves about how they need a new Reagan but frankly they need their own Clinton. I can tell you as a young voter that conservatism in its current design isn't going to attract too many younger voters. Younger voters and increasingly the electorate as a whole doesn't want to hear about culture war crap.

190 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:09:06pm

Oh Steam Sale, WHY MUST YOU TEMPT ME SO?

191 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:09:32pm

re: #175 stabby

Well it was an incumbent year. No one with two brain cells to rub together was gonna throw away his career by running.

As I noted last month, the last incumbent president who was nominated without notable internal opposition who failed to be reelected was Herbert Hoover. If an incumbent president isn't facing a primary challenge they are extremely difficult to defeat. The advantages of already being the president are immense and Barack Obama made fairly good use of them.

192 wilburs  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:09:45pm

Congress has always had minority crackpot groups on both sides of the aisle, the problem is that they have now been empowered by the Republican "rules" of engagement.

In the past you would frequently see bills passed with 80% of the republicans and 40% of the democrats voting for them, or 75% democrats and 25% republicans....but no more.

The republican philosophy now is that all 50% + 1 votes to pass the bill have to be republican, they don't even want democratic votes...obviously this is impossible, that's why they haven't passed any legislation in the last 2 years

193 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:10:18pm

re: #184 jamesfirecat

Bow and Silver Arrow.

Silver arrows are for use on Gannon.

194 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:10:29pm

re: #188 stabby

I don't know if it's a good sign that no one smart took the bait to run against Obama.

It either implies that the smart Republicans knew that the tea party flash was a trap

Or it implies that there are no smart Republicans (maybe apart from Chris Christie)

Huntsman ran. Problem is he was too smart.

195 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:10:39pm

re: #190 Kragar

Oh Steam Sale, WHY MUST YOU TEMPT ME SO?

You think you got it bad? I haven't even gone Christmas shopping yet. When I'm done with that, I'm not gonna have money for any of the sales.

It's not fair! There was time now. All the time in the world...

196 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:10:47pm

re: #177 HappyWarrior

I believe he talked about getting rid of the EPA too. I don't think Huntsman is a bad guy but it really is a sad reflection of the modern GOP that he's seen as a moderate for them.

You'd think being the ambassador to China would teach Huntsman about the utility of the EPA.

197 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:11:19pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Silver arrows are for use on Gannon.

Its dangerous to go alone.

198 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:11:33pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Half of he creeps over at PJ think that the problem is that somehow Michelle Bauchmann didn't make it as nominee. They really did love her over there. And they want someone JUST LIKE THAT.

She's like Sarah Palin if what was left of her brain was smashed under a bible and replaced with sawdust.

199 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:11:57pm

re: #177 HappyWarrior

I believe he talked about getting rid of the EPA too. I don't think Huntsman is a bad guy but it really is a sad reflection of the modern GOP that he's seen as a moderate for them.

I think he tried too hard to fit in with the rest of the clowns in GOP clown car.. His only chance was to totally distance himself from all the crazies he was running against and give centrist GOP primary voters one choice for a rational candidate. Oh all the other 6 would have all hated him and wagged angry fingers at him, but that was his only chance to win the nomination, Let the other 6 fight over the GOP 70% extremists while he won over the other 30% .

200 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:12:00pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

The problem if you ask me is there's no sizable group within the GOP thinking that they need to change their image.

..........................

"But Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), serving his final days after losing his reelection bid in November, said the GOP brand would suffer if Republicans took a step that they had long argued amounted to a tax increase. “If you don’t draw a contrast with the other side, who are you?” he asked."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

201 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:12:02pm

re: #183 EPR-radar

Obama had a weak economy. By all normal measures, he was relatively vulnerable for an incumbent.

Also, where are the GOP contenders with multiple firing neurons?

This. Romneys numbers jumped when he started talking somewhat sane. If he wasn't one of the worst candidates in history, he would have won. But he was a rich, emotionless, heartless robot who shit all over just about anybody not on his "I have friends who own sports teams" list. Add to that the list of blatant misogyny from his VP on-down through the Senate candidates, the outright hatred toward minorities...

Obama, even with the intransigence of Congress working against him for 4 years, should have gotten his ass kicked. And yes, I voted for him, happily and proudly. But when you really look at it, a decent candidate against him should have won.

202 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:12:04pm

Honestly, they need a candidate who's not afraid to tell off some of the most crazy elements in the party. Maybe that would be Christie. Maybe not. They really can't keep on running on every election with their candidate being a surrogate Ronald Reagan and the Democratic candidate being a surrogate Jimmy Carter. It reminds me of what Democrats lost track of in the 70's and 80's that running on the New Deal just wasn't going to work anymore.

203 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:12:09pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

Huntsman ran. Problem is he was too smart.

He sunk his chances when he agreed to serve his country as Ambassador while Obama was President.

204 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:13:31pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

The problem is that only the morons showed up for the primaries.

And we could see that coming by reading the internet forums.

It was tea party-kkk time, babies!

205 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:13:40pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

Huntsman ran. Problem is he was too smart.

The entire "Worked for President Obama" thing probably didn't help him in the Republican primary either...

206 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:15:07pm

re: #201 Ghost of Tom Joad

This. Romneys numbers jumped when he started talking somewhat sane. If he wasn't one of the worst candidates in history, he would have won. But he was a rich, emotionless, heartless robot who shit all over just about anybody not on his "I have friends who own sports teams" list. Add to that the list of blatant misogyny from his VP on-down through the Senate candidates, the outright hatred toward minorities...

Obama, even with the intransigence of Congress working against him for 4 years, should have gotten his ass kicked. And yes, I voted for him, happily and proudly. But when you really look at it, a decent candidate against him should have won.

Romney could not conceal his contempt for those he viewed as his inferiors. A severe handicap for a presidential candidate.

207 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:15:22pm

re: #195 Targetpractice

You think you got it bad? I haven't even gone Christmas shopping yet. When I'm done with that, I'm not gonna have money for any of the sales.

It's not fair! There was time now. All the time in the world...

There are a couple I'm interested in, but I don't want to spend the little money I'm willing to use on something I'm not sure about.

208 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:15:39pm

re: #190 Kragar

Oh Steam Sale, WHY MUST YOU TEMPT ME SO?

Damnit, now I'm going to have to check it out, and wind up spending money that I didn't want to.

I hate you, sir.

209 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:16:01pm

re: #197 Kragar

Its dangerous to go alone.

Master using it and you can have this.

210 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:16:16pm

re: #201 Ghost of Tom Joad

This. Romneys numbers jumped when he started talking somewhat sane. If he wasn't one of the worst candidates in history, he would have won.

yeah

Remember when he spoke in front of the NAACP just to tell them that they're freeloaders for wanting health insurance and should vote for Obama.

Fuck

What a piece of shit asshole.

He set that up on purpose!

He fucking set that up on purpose, just to show the country how much he hates poor and black people

He gaged his party pretty fucking well, that was how to win the primary

Tea party KKK

But media is better than it used to be, people's memory is longer. People are going to hate the Republicans for that for years.

211 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:17:06pm

re: #206 EPR-radar

Romney could not conceal his contempt for those he viewed as his inferiors. A severe handicap for a presidential candidate.

No, he was SHOWCASING his contempt as a way of winning the primary from a party that is currently BUILT on hatred.

212 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:18:29pm

re: #199 Mich-again

He'd have never made it through the primary to the general. The TPers would not accept anyone not totally nuts.

213 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:18:33pm

Keep in mind that Romney didn't have any policies, instead he had the derp of the week, carefully chosen from right wing forums

214 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:19:10pm

re: #198 stabby

Half of he creeps over at PJ think that the problem is that somehow Michelle Bauchmann didn't make it as nominee. They really did love her over there. And they want someone JUST LIKE THAT.

She's like Sarah Palin if what was left of her brain was smashed under a bible and replaced with sawdust.

Yeah that's the problem. Honestly, the fact that Santorum ended up being a credible challenger to Romney really tells you all about the direction the party's base has headed. They're not moderating. Hell, they're getting more and more nuts. And their problem is their base is getting smaller since it's older and whiter. Some of them seem to think that all they need is someone like Jindal or Rubio who are young and come from immigrant parent backgrounds but that's not going to help them a great deal. The only real difference between Jindal or Rubio and Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, etc is their background. Ideologically, it's the same crap and frankly in some cases even more nuts.

215 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:19:43pm

re: #211 stabby

No, he was SHOWCASING his contempt as a way of winning the primary from a party that is currently BUILT on hatred.

He told us the plan --- to "etch a sketch" the GOP primaries away. So we're both right. You've described the primary season, but being unable to hide his contempt in the general was a problem.

216 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:20:23pm

I thought it was hysterical that they nominated Romney. I remember the 2004 election very well and Mitt Romney had all John Kerry's problems of unlikability but without the years of experience in the Senate and the war experience.

217 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:20:32pm

re: #214 HappyWarrior

Yeah that's the problem. Honestly, the fact that Santorum ended up being a credible challenger to Romney really tells you all about the direction the party's base has headed. They're not moderating. Hell, they're getting more and more nuts. And their problem is their base is getting smaller since it's older and whiter. Some of them seem to think that all they need is someone like Jindal or Rubio who are young and come from immigrant parent backgrounds but that's not going to help them a great deal. The only real difference between Jindal or Rubio and Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, etc is their background. Ideologically, it's the same crap and frankly in some cases even more nuts.

And I get downdinged for pointing out Muslims who say that the Islamists are never going to moderate.

218 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:21:15pm

Santorum salad, anyone?

219 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:21:35pm

re: #215 EPR-radar

I think he really was surprised, that the tactic (of lying to everyone about what he really believed) that had served him so well in business ultimately failed to serve him in politics.

220 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:21:40pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I thought it was hysterical that they nominated Romney. I remember the 2004 election very well and Mitt Romney had all John Kerry's problems of unlikability but without the years of experience in the Senate and the war experience.

Mitt Romney is John Kerry's mirror image - as long as that mirror is hanging in the lounge of a $50,000 a year county club.

221 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:22:01pm

re: #218 dragonath

Santorum salad, anyone?

Or, salad with Santorum dressing?

222 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:22:37pm

re: #221 EPR-radar

Or, salad with Santorum dressing?

I'll pass. Sounds frothy :).

223 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:23:01pm

re: #220 stabby

Mitt Romney was John Kerry's mirror image - as long as that mirror is hanging in the lounge of a $50,000 a year county club.

Like Stabby said, you don't get top talent when you're facing an incumbent who'll cruise to the nomination.

224 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:24:21pm

re: #215 EPR-radar

He couldn't pick Ryan AND etch-a-sketch because unlike Romney, Ryan actually stood for something.

He stood for cruelty and derp

225 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:24:35pm

re: #220 stabby

Mitt Romney is John Kerry's mirror image - as long as that mirror is hanging in the lounge of a $50,000 a year county club.

I disagree. Perhaps somewhat in personality, but Kerry does the people's work. Romney wanted to be POTUS solely for Mitt Romney. I think ite very unfair to compare them in that way. Kerry doesn't care solely for the wealthy or the 1%. Night and day those two.

226 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:24:40pm

It's like what Alice Roosevelt Longworth said- Romney's candidacy sprung from the grassroots of ten thousand country clubs.

227 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:25:09pm

re: #211 stabby

No, he was SHOWCASING his contempt as a way of winning the primary from a party that is currently BUILT on hatred.

Honestly Romney's problem is that while he could do contempt really well, he never came of as being able to actually hate Obama/Democrats.

At least that is my opinion.

228 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:25:28pm

re: #219 jaunte

I think he really was surprised, that the tactic (of lying to everyone about what he really believed) that had served him so well in business ultimately failed to serve him in politics.

I think Romney didn't do too many deals where his counter party to the deal was the target for exploitation. For example, raping a company via vulture capitalism involves making a deal with the current owners who have a financial interest in believing whatever lies Romney bothers to tell about the post-acquisition plans.

This is poor practice for asking people for their votes. It is also poor practice for lying believably.

229 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:26:12pm

re: #203 aagcobb

He sunk his chances when he agreed to serve his country as Ambassador while Obama was President.

His loss is primarily attributable to Republican atavism on the issues, in refusing to bash or go along with a trade war with China, opposing waterboarding / torture, saying that Global Warming was actually occurring (though saying we shouldn't do anything about it,) supporting civil unions, and refusing to bash immigrants and opposing a border fence. The 2012 GOP primaries were about reinforcing brain dead orthodoxy, and his campaign was like a performance art piece intended to contrast with that as much as possible while still nominally remaining conducive to conservatism.

230 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:26:19pm

re: #225 Joanne

I disagree. Perhaps somewhat in personality, but Kerry does the people's work. Romney wanted to be POTUS solely for Mitt Romney. I think ite very unfair to compare them in that way. Kerry doesn't care solely for the wealthy or the 1%. Night and day those two.

Yeah, the only real difference between Kerry and Romney is style really. Substance wise, I think they're two totally different guys. Kerry was a shitty communicator and I think a flawed candidate but I think he could have been a decent president and I think he will make a good Secretary of State. Frankly, he was my first choice for Obama.

231 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:27:08pm

re: #225 Joanne

I disagree. Perhaps somewhat in personality, but Kerry does the people's work. Romney wanted to be POTUS solely for Mitt Romney. I think ite very unfair to compare them in that way. Kerry doesn't care solely for the wealthy or the 1%. Night and day those two.

Ok. True as far as it goes.

Romney lies because the Republican base loves lies, they understand that you can't say "n*****" but you can tell lies about the president. And if you tell enough of them, it's just like if you said "n*****, n*****, n*****, n*****!"

Kerry lies because he has contempt for the American people and thinks that they have to be managed for their own good. He has a history of this going back to the vietnam hearings.

That's well, it's not appropriate for a president.

232 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:27:33pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

Honestly Romney's problem is that while he could do contempt really well, he never came of as being able to actually hate Obama/Democrats.

At least that is my opinion.

I think this was his weakness in the primaries, where the base did find his lack of hate disappointing.

That weakness was solved by application of massive amounts of money.

233 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:27:47pm

I couldn't help but look at Kerry at the convention and think if he had been that candid then...

234 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:28:21pm

re: #226 dragonath

It's like Alice Roosevelt Longworth said- Romney's candidacy sprung from the grassroots of ten thousand country clubs.

She had a lot of funny ones. Not sure who she was talking about there. But yeah, one got the impression with Romney that Romney was running for Romney and Romney's donors. You never felt like he was doing this because of a sincere concern about the country's future. Not to suggest that he doesn't care about the country, I know he does but he comes across as only being concerned with his own preservation and that's fatal for most candidates especially one running as an economic fixer.

235 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:28:36pm

re: #212 Joanne

He'd have never made it through the primary to the general. The TPers would not accept anyone not totally nuts.

But there were 6 candidates competing for the Tea Baggers, Birchers, and other extremists in the GOP. No one even tried to appeal to the leftish GOP voters. And true the extremists had the majority of the GOP but in 7 person race, 30% can win a primary.

236 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:28:43pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

Like Stabby said, you don't get top talent when you're facing an incumbent who'll cruise to the nomination.

Who is the top talent in the GOP? Rob Portman is the only one I see who might have stood even odds of outperforming Romney.

237 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:29:06pm

re: #232 EPR-radar

I think this was his weakness in the primaries, where the base did find his lack of hate disappointing.

That weakness was solved by application of massive amounts of money.

Sadly Massive Amounts of money can't buy you friends, unless you are on twitter of course.

238 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:29:42pm

re: #236 goddamnedfrank

Could Chris Christie win DESPITE being hated by the smelly idiot base?

I'd love to think so

239 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:30:02pm

re: #238 stabby

Could Chris Christie win DESPITE being hated by the smelly idiot base?

I'd love to think so

Nope.

240 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:30:44pm

I'll have some Christie Croutons to go along with this Santorum Salad

241 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:30:51pm

re: #238 stabby

Could Chris Christie win DESPITE being hated by the smelly idiot base?

I'd love to think so

I don't see that happening.

242 EPR-radar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:30:55pm

re: #237 jamesfirecat

Sadly Massive Amounts of money can't buy you friends, unless you are on twitter of course.

Actually, money not being able to buy friendship doesn't sadden me in the least.

The revelation of purchased GOP twitter followers (or was it Facebook likes) was a fun part of the general.

243 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:30:59pm

bbl

244 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:31:29pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

I hope he tries anyways. He could surprise.

And the result would be the most delicious thing since the fall of the Berlin wall. Mass suicides by Birchers.

245 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:31:45pm

re: #238 stabby

Could Chris Christie win DESPITE being hated by the smelly idiot base?

I'd love to think so

No chance in Hell. There will be no Tafts elected in the era of HD television programming.

246 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:32:37pm

Honestly even before Christie lost his street cred with the base, I thought he was being over-estimated. Call me crazy but I just didn't and still don't see how a guy with his style fares in early states like Iowa and South Carolina. He's got a very urban style to him much like Rudy Giuliani did. Now granted Christie is more socially conservative than Rudy was so he wouldn't be handicapped by support for choice, gun control, and gay rights but I just can't put my finger on it. In fact, I don't think there's been a Republican candidate in my life that really qualifies as "urban." They've all been either suburban or rural in flavor. Does that make any sense?

247 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:33:27pm

re: #245 goddamnedfrank

No chance in Hell. There will be no Tafts elected in the era of HD television programming.

And that's a factor that can't be underestimated as well.

249 wilburs  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:34:06pm

All Christie has to do is a little hippie bashing on Fox and the wingnuts will love him again, they live for that stuff

250 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:34:16pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

George Will: You Know Who Else Had High Voter Turnout?

Jesus?

251 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:35:15pm

re: #235 Mich-again

But there were 6 candidates competing for the Tea Baggers, Birchers, and other extremists in the GOP. No one even tried to appeal to the leftish GOP voters. And true the extremists had the majority of the GOP but in 7 person race, 30% can win a primary.

You're assuming that there are 30% sane Republicans??

252 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:35:29pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

McKinley!

253 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:35:48pm

re: #236 goddamnedfrank

If you're looking as far as 2016, right now I think Rubio is the only thing they've got in the holster with any chance. He might help deliver Florida, and hasn't gone completely off the deep end. Christie seems like he's already a dead-man walking nationally. I don't see Ryan doing it. He just...doesn't have the charisma for it. The way he speaks makes me want to stab myself in the ears with a soldering iron. If somebody says Jindal, they deserve to get water-boarded. Santorum's a joke (literally). No chance.

None of the Congress-critters have any real national recognition at this point (well, not any that's good at this point) save a few.

254 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:36:22pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

George Will: You Know Who Else Had High Voter Turnout?

Will can be such a douchebag sometimes. He's smarter than your average right wing nut job but he'll appeal to the lowest common denominator like he's doing here.

255 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:36:28pm

re: #251 Joanne

I remember a (maybe not scientific) poll of republicans

1/3 tea party
1/3 sympathetic to the tea party
1/3 hostile to the tea party

Yes the poll really did say "hostile"

256 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:36:28pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

Rutherford B. Hayes!

257 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:36:50pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

Who's gonna break it to the Australians that they're a bunch of crypto-fascists?

258 jaunte  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:37:09pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

James Buchanan!

259 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:37:16pm

Every video game escort mission ever

Youtube Video
260 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:37:26pm

re: #253 Ghost of Tom Joad

Jon Stewart and Colbert and I are still hoping for Santorum. We must be

261 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:37:26pm

re: #256 jaunte

Rutherford B. Hayes!

So, he hit Harry and Marv with a shovel and he's a Nazi. Way to go Rutherford, you bastard.

262 wilburs  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:37:54pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

Will can be such a douchebag sometimes. He's smarter than your average right wing nut job but he'll appeal to the lowest common denominator like he's doing here.

He is senile
How he continues to be published is a complete mystery to me
Who reads him?

263 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:38:05pm

re: #259 Kragar

You pasted the wrong video

264 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:38:12pm

re: #251 Joanne

You're assuming that there are 30% sane Republicans??

Yeah that is a stretch if you limit it to Republicans. Thinking maybe if there was a lefty Republican candidate independents might come out to vote in primaries.

265 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:38:38pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

They also need non crazy candidates who aren't empty cyphers for the top 1%....

Well I guess they have John Huntsman.....

I don't see Huntsman going anywhere in 2016.

He put all his eggs in one basket, practically living in New Hampshire until the primary, and in one of the more moderate states -- Democrats have won the New Hampshire vote in the last three elections -- Huntsman managed to get a whopping 17% of the vote.

If Huntsman can only get 17% of the Republican vote in a state like New Hampshire, I don't think he's going to have much of a shelf life in the South in 2016.

Ron Paul came in second in the New Hampshire primary; it's tough to imagine his votes going to Jon Huntsman.

266 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:38:52pm

re: #246 HappyWarrior

Honestly even before Christie lost his street cred with the base, I thought he was being over-estimated. Call me crazy but I just didn't and still don't see how a guy with his style fares in early states like Iowa and South Carolina. He's got a very urban style to him much like Rudy Giuliani did. Now granted Christie is more socially conservative than Rudy was so he wouldn't be handicapped by support for choice, gun control, and gay rights but I just can't put my finger on it. In fact, I don't think there's been a Republican candidate in my life that really qualifies as "urban." They've all been either suburban or rural in flavor. Does that make any sense?

Yes. Almost all of the Republican party is now suburban or rural. Many within the party don't really want to deal with urban issues. They don't want to live in a city and don't want to share the party with people who do. National Review ran a article about this in its current issue, wherein Brian C. Anderson reminded readers of the folly of that sort of thinking. Sadly, such words are likely wasted on those whose dislike of urban areas is not only practical but cultural as well.

Not a new phenomenon, though. You can find examples of 'ruralism' going all the way back to ancient Greece. But it doesn't work in a nation where city dwellers are growing while rural folks are currently static.

267 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:38:54pm

re: #246 HappyWarrior

If "urban" means he's a giant dick, no, his attitude will leave Midwesterners high and dry. They'll see him telling a constitute to shut-up (it's on video and audio) and that will be that.

268 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:39:03pm

This may be the first GOP primary in a longtime that isn't a next in line type thing. Right now it would be Santorum but I don't see Santorum having the popularity with the corporate donors that is needed to win a GOP primary. Wonder though if Huckabee runs this time. He more so than Santorum would be very popular with the evangelicals. Of course, Huckabee too is not popular with the corporate wing.

269 dragonath  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:39:17pm
But that's not the only bit of illogic Will brings to bear. Federalized voter registration, Will argues, is "a step toward making voting mandatory." Here's his vision for how that comes to pass:

Will:

Notice the perverse dialectic by which Washington aggrandizes its power: It promises to ameliorate problems exacerbated by its supposedly ameliorative policies. Notice, too, the logic of [Assistant Attorney General Thomas] Perez's thesis that "our democracy is stronger when more people have a say in electing their leaders."

Goddamn state IDs are just swell huh? I'll perverse your dialectic buddy.

270 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:39:54pm

re: #259 Kragar

Every video game escort mission ever

[Embedded content]

Every video game escort mission in history has led me to believe one thing: this shithead I'm trying to rescue is really, really, really not worth saving. In fact, this person is so stupid I'd probably be doing the planet a favor if I just shot them in the face with a bazooka.

271 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:40:10pm

re: #263 stabby

You pasted the wrong video

LIES! (reload)

272 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:40:38pm

re: #270 Ghost of Tom Joad

Every video game escort mission in history has led me to believe one thing: this shithead I'm trying to rescue is really, really, really not worth saving. In fact, this person is so stupid I'd probably be doing the planet a favor if I just shot them in the face with a bazooka.

Yep, done that.
Stupid NPCs.

273 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:41:19pm

re: #265 BongCrodny

I don't see Huntsman going anywhere in 2016.

Fair or not, The GOP base was not too crazy about backing a rich Mormon businessman this time and it is not going to happen again for a while.

274 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:41:44pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

Republicans define themselves as "we're the ones who hate those urban people, they're all immoral parasites who are stealing from good, white Christians!"

I don't know if that translates to "we will never vote for an urban Republican" or not.

275 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:43:29pm

One thing the GOP really needs to do is humanely euthanize the Ames Straw Poll.

276 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:43:44pm

re: #274 stabby

Republicans define themselves as "we're the ones who hate those urban people, they're all immoral parasites who are stealing from good, white Christians!"

I don't know if that translates to "we will never vote for an urban Republican" or not.

I dunno. But the hostility to urbanites is something that needs to be overcome. The country's becoming more urban/suburban and less rural. The Democrats faced a similar problem when Al Smith was the face of the party before FDR in the 20's. He represented the growing cities and the immigrant communities and faced a lot of hostility from the rural and multi-generation Americans. Didn't help of course that he was a Wet and not ashamed of it.

278 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:44:36pm

re: #253 Ghost of Tom Joad

That's pretty scary because Rubio is a policy moron. He is just the other side of Palin in understanding and has ethical issues (GOP of FL spending money he shouldn't have on personal stuff). If he's the best, the GOP is truly and deeply fucked. Which is fine with me.

280 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:45:04pm

re: #275 goddamnedfrank

One thing the GOP really needs to do is humanely euthanize the Ames Straw Poll.

Quite Concur. That may finally happen this time around. The poll skews things badly, and it doesn't really reflect Iowa. It needs to go, no matter how much its organizers squeal.

281 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:45:39pm

re: #255 stabby

I remember a (maybe not scientific) poll of republicans

1/3 tea party
1/3 sympathetic to the tea party
1/3 hostile to the tea party

Yes the poll really did say "hostile"

I'd have to see it to believe it.

282 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:46:10pm

Newtown was caused by violence in video games and cartoons!

Youtube Video
283 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:47:20pm

re: #278 Joanne

That's pretty scary because Rubio is a policy moron. He is just the other side of Palin in understanding and has ethical issues (GOP of FL spending money he shouldn't have on personal stuff). If he's the best, the GOP is truly and deeply fucked. Which is fine with me.

I'm still trying to understand what makes Rubio so special. I dunno. It just reeks to me that the Republicans think they have their own version of Obama with Rubio. Someone who is young and has immigrant parents. If they think that will somehow win over under thirty voters to their party, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. I do think younger voters would be more willing to listen to Rubio than they had Romney but as soon as most of them hear what he has to say, he's just going to sound like more of the same crap we've heard from Republicans. The Republicans need candidates who aren't afraid to be more libertarian on the social issues.

284 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:48:25pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

George Will: You Know Who Else Had High Voter Turnout?

If Will had retired about 5 years ago, he could have gone into the sunset with a shred of dignity. Sure, he has always been not much more than a GOP cheerleader...but some of his baseball writing is pretty good. Instead, he is now a joke.

First of all, he has become utterly anachronistic. Here he links the paucity of "manliness" among younger men today to the lack of westerns on TV.

However, much more troubling is his apparent lack of critical thinking skills. Most conservatives with a bit common sense (our own DF for one) were wise enough to distance themselves from fucking idiots like Sharron Angle and Michele Bachmann. Instead Will penned love letters to both, here and here.

Whatever credibility he once had is now LONG gone.

285 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:48:27pm

re: #278 Joanne

That's pretty scary because Rubio is a policy moron. He is just the other side of Palin in understanding and has ethical issues (GOP of FL spending money he shouldn't have on personal stuff). If he's the best, the GOP is truly and deeply fucked. Which is fine with me.

I know, but, at this point, who do they have? I mean, still ~2 years before somebody will have to come forward...

286 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:49:23pm

re: #285 Ghost of Tom Joad

I know, but, at this point, who do they have? I mean, still ~2 years before somebody will have to come forward...

RON PAUL

287 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:49:32pm

re: #268 HappyWarrior

After Huck's comments about the CT shooting, he'd die a big death if he ever made it to a general. He cooked his own goose. He's a serious fucking asshole.

288 Kragar  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:50:57pm

re: #287 Joanne

After Huck's comments about the CT shooting, he'd die a big death if he ever made it to a general. He cooked his own goose. He's a serious fucking asshole.

But how will he ever force Americans to listen to David Barton at gunpoint?

289 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:51:10pm

re: #287 Joanne

Yeah... but... the base really wants a religious nut asshole who cozies up to racists. They want they want they want.

The Republican party has to fire its base and find a new one.

290 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:51:22pm

re: #287 Joanne

After Huck's comments about the CT shooting, he'd die a big death if he ever made it to a general. He cooked his own goose. He's a serious fucking asshole.

There's plenty more where that came from. I don't disagree but this is the party electorate that allowed Rick Santorum to have a fighting chance.

291 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:51:44pm

re: #288 Kragar

But how will he ever force Americans to listen to David Barton at gunpoint?

SecondLife?

293 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:52:52pm

re: #288 Kragar

But how will he ever force Americans to listen to David Barton at gunpoint?

There you go, cozies up to a fucking racist piece of shit. On national TV. And praises him like he was sex in a hot tub.

294 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:54:35pm

re: #287 Joanne

After Huck's comments about the CT shooting, he'd die a big death if he ever made it to a general. He cooked his own goose. He's a serious fucking asshole.

As much as a candidate needs to be religious in this country, at the same time, I don't think we'll ever see a fire-breathing bible-humper like Santorum or Huckabee elected. Most people I know that claim to be "religious" are the cafeteria catholics who partake in popular rituals like Church weddings, Baptisms, etc.

Sure, they want to vote for a believer. But at the same time, they would never vote for a zealot.

295 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:55:55pm

re: #294 Ghost of Tom Joad

As much as a candidate needs to be religious in this country, at the same time, I don't think we'll ever see a fire-breathing bible-humper like Santorum or Huckabee elected. Most people I know that claim to be "religious" are the cafeteria catholics who partake in popular rituals like Church weddings, Baptisms, etc.

Sure, they want to vote for a believer. But at the same time, they would never vote for a zealot.

I don't think so easier but I do wonder if such a candidate can be nominated.

296 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:56:04pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

The GOP will forever lose young people with their hatred of science and reason. Most kids will see through the bullshit. And the Earth is 6000 years old shit? Not gonna fly. AND he's as SoCon as Huck. Another non-starter as less and less people are as religious as their grand parents.

297 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:57:02pm

re: #286 Varek Raith

RON PAUL

RAND PAUL!!11!

298 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:57:22pm

re: #296 Joanne

The GOP will forever lose young people with their hatred of science and reason. Most kids will see through the bullshit. And the Earth is 6000 years old shit? Not gonna fly. AND he's as SoCon as Huck. Another non-starter as less and less people are as religious as their grand parents.

Oh yeah the religious stuff is a huge turnoff. This is probably the least religious generation ever. It's a generation where being an open atheist really isn't ground to much hostility.

299 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:58:18pm

re: #289 stabby

Yeah... but... the base really wants a religious nut asshole who cozies up to racists. They want they want they want.

The Republican party has to fire its base and find a new one.

I'm all for a sane opposition party. Ping me when one shows up. :-D

300 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 8:58:43pm

re: #288 Kragar

But how will he ever force Americans to listen to David Barton at gunpoint?

Barton is so insane I'd rather take the bullet.

301 stabby  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 9:00:30pm

Maybe the problem with the Republican party is that the plutocrats who paid for 2010 and 2012 are nutcases.

So if the Koch bros get another hobby or some smarter billionaires come out of the woodwork then maybe the party will be back with a new face and new astroturfed crowd, all worshiping at Chris Christie's feet or whoever else they invent for them.

302 Joanne  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 9:02:58pm

re: #301 stabby

Maybe the problem with the Republican party is that the plutocrats who paid for 2010 and 2012 are nutcases.

So if the Koch bros get another hobby or some smarter billionaires come out of the woodwork then maybe the party will be back with a new face and new astroturfed crowd, all worshiping at Chris Christie's feet or whoever else they invent for them.

What's really infuriating is that Obama has been exceptionally good to business yet those rich cocksuckers just didn't get enough.

303 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 20, 2012 9:03:51pm

The Ames Straw Poll is pretty much an episode of Storage Wars.

Yuppppp.


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