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Breaking: Shooting at Lone Star College in Texas

And again
Crime • Views: 25,403

Not many details yet, but there’s another mass shooting incident in Texas: Multiple People Shot on College Campus in Texas.

HOUSTON - Multiple people have been shot at a Harris County college, Harris County Precinct 4 deputy constables said.

Investigators said the shooting happened at Lone Star College’s North Harris campus, 2700 West W. W. Thorne Drive near Aldine Westfield shortly after noon.

Officials have not said exactly how many people have been shot or the extent of their injuries. Memorial Hermann Hospital said Life Flight was being sent to the college to pick up at least one patient.

Deputy constables said they have at least one person detained, but have not said if that person is a suspected shooter.

[Live feed concluded…]

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368 comments

1 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:26:00am

So, a campus shooting in Texas. More calls to end gun-free zones in 3…2…1…

2 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:26:03am

Clearly this is the fault of Hollywood, video games, big pharma, and the gay Houston mayor.

3 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:26:22am

to pick up at least one patient.

Terrible as it is, lets hope it’s limited to the one and not a “mass shooting”

4 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:26:53am

re: #2 Dr. Matt

Clearly this is the fault of Hollywood, video games, big pharma, and the gay Houston mayor.

Its all orchestrated by Big Hammer to keep people focused on poor innocent little guns.

5 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:27:22am
6 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:27:34am

re: #2 Dr. Matt

Wait at least until the shooter is known, his target or targets are id’d until any conclusions or conjectures are made

7 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:28:05am

re: #1 Targetpractice

So, a campus shooting in Texas. More calls to end gun-free zones in 3…2…1…

Texas has gun free zones? The last I heard, they were advertising to New Yorkers to come on down and bring all their guns.

8 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:28:13am

(Twitter is messing around with their embedded tweet code, by the way.)

9 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:28:21am

ABC in Houston reporting 2 injured with multiple gun shot wounds. Both in surgery. (repeating my posting of the twitter kludge above).

10 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:28:23am

Fuck……………

11 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:29:51am

re: #7 Skip Intro

Texas has gun free zones? The last I heard, they were advertising to New Yorkers to come on down and bring all their guns.

The 2011 bill to allow concealed carry on Texas colleges and universities narrowly failed.

I’m sure we’ll see another now; I’m sure it will pass. I’m sure it will not help.

12 jaunte  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:30:47am

KTRK tv:

The two victims, we’re told, have suffered multiple gunshot wounds, but were conscious when they arrived at hospitals. Both have been taken into surgery. Medical crews could be seen tending to at least three victims outside buildings on campus. It’s not yet clear how they may have been injured.

Emergency responders are focused in the area around the campus library and cafeteria. Some students could be seen running from the building. There is no official word on the shooter, but officers are searching a wooded area to the north side of campus, apparently looking for a suspect.

At least two students have told Eyewitness News they heard five shots. One girl said sounded as if they occurred outside, in an area between the library and the cafeteria. Other students say they heard gunshots when they were in cafeteria.

[Link: abclocal.go.com…]

13 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:31:19am

Oh this shit again. I wonder how many of these shooters are feeling spurned on by all the crazy gun paranoia rhetoric coming from the gun lobby these days

14 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:32:12am

#TGDN blaming Obama and NEED MOAR GUNZ in 4..3..2..

15 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:32:40am

Think I need a shower now. Went to check on the Freepers and the conspiracy juice is flowing. Did you know that Democrats are willing to kill multiple people and then commit suicide just to help Obama pass gun control measures?

16 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:32:48am

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Pencil: “spurred”.

17 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:32:49am
18 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:33:38am

re: #17 Lidane

FYI: @BarryWirth is a parody account.

19 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:33:59am

It is a conspiracy…lets make a crazy one up and see how long it takes for Infowars and Free Republic to report on it.

Peter Frampton with the ruger in the conservatory?

Can’t wait for the NRA spin, I hope there are no fatalities or injuries.

20 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:34:06am

I’m sure we can turn to our highest of elected officials to help tamp down the hysteria. Take it away, Senator McConnell!

Email dated 20 Jan 2012

Dear Patriot,
You and I are literally surrounded.

The gun-grabbers in the Senate are about to launch an all-out-assault on the Second Amendment. On your rights.

On your freedom.

Just the other night, President Obama urged them to act. And then he went one step further, spelling out the 23 different Executive Orders he will take to get your guns.

I’m sure there’s no correlation.

/

21 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:34:19am

re: #18 Vicious Babushka

FYI: @BarryWirth is a parody account.

What’s the difference?

22 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:34:31am

re: #17 Lidane

Yeah because the news shouldn’t be reported because a bunch of gun nuts are afraid of looking bad. Fucking A man.

23 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:34:33am

re: #16 Decatur Deb

I know. Cant fix it from my android

24 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:34:57am

It’s believed the shooting is a result of two men arguing and one of them pulled his pistol.

25 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:35:32am

re: #21 Decatur Deb

What’s the difference?

The intentional misspellings are what tipped me off, also he seems to have a lot more liberal followers than wingnuts. But it was hard to tell. Poe’s Law.

Oh, and the Randy Marsh lookalike avatar.

26 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:35:39am

re: #17 Lidane

And I’ve no doubt others will chime in with “Are you reporting all the shootings in Chicago?”

27 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:35:53am

re: #18 Vicious Babushka

FYI: @BarryWirth is a parody account.

Ah. Poe’s Law got me, then. With all the idiocy at #TGDN that was inevitable.

28 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:35:57am

re: #24 Dr. Matt

It’s believed the shooting is a result of two men arguing and one of them pulled his pistol.

That sure wont help the gun debate lol

That’s the problem you have when everyone carries a gun.

29 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:36:08am

re: #24 Dr. Matt

It’s believed the shooting is a result of two men arguing and one of them pulled his pistol.

Freepers are arguing “gang violence.”

30 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:36:10am

re: #26 Targetpractice

And I’ve no doubt others will chime in with “Are you reporting all the shootings in Chicago?”

And “there will be hundreds of car accidents today and abortions today”.

31 jaunte  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:36:18am

Gun-free zone discussion in KTRK news comments:

Re: “students with training and a c.c. could stop this stuff” - are there no guns in Texas?

demigod (38434)
duh, yeah. and it’s against the law to take one on campus.


Nylund (10915)
And as a Texan professor, I hope it stays that way. I say that as a gun owner who spends quite a bit of time at the range. I don’t want to look out into a class and see handguns peaking out from under coats wondering who is “good” and who is “bad.” Right now, it’s pretty easy, I see a gun, the cops take you away. I also really fear a shootout with “good” students and crazy student shooters and what would happen when SWAT showed up. My guess is, anyone holding a gun may fall victim to “shoot em all and let God sort it out,” mentality by the police.

32 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:36:36am

re: #24 Dr. Matt

It’s believed the shooting is a result of two men arguing and one of them pulled his pistol.

Just to watch him die…

33 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:36:44am

re: #24 Dr. Matt

It’s believed the shooting is a result of two men arguing and one of them pulled his pistol.

Good thing I got downdinged for my wait and see comment!!

{sigh}

34 calochortus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:37:23am

re: #29 Targetpractice

Freepers are arguing “gang violence.”

Black gang violence, I might add.

35 calochortus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:37:57am

re: #34 calochortus

Black gang violence, I might add.

Or was that redundant?

36 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:38:08am

re: #34 calochortus

Black gang violence, I might add.

Is there any other kind?

///// x infinity

37 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:38:15am

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Oh this shit again. I wonder how many of these shooters are feeling spurned on by all the crazy gun paranoia rhetoric coming from the gun lobby these days

Maybe but if anything I think the increased press coverage on the issue (and these incidents) may inspire some copycats. I don’t know if there’s been much of an uptick in shootings or just the press coverage. If you google “shooting” at random times you’ll notice that most of the shootings (mostly in urban, poor areas) still continue regularly with virtually no media coverage but even a minor shooting in a rich area, a college, or a red state gets lots of hype.
Even the gunshow accidents this past weekend happen fairly regularly (about one or two a month) but the increased press coverage lately is different.

38 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:38:23am

The History Of The Prepper Paradise Known As The Citadel

“Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles,” the project’s website states.

Per the project’s Patriot Agreement, which every would-be resident of the community must agree with in writing, an armed citizenry and a trained militia will also be important parts of life at The Citadel. All residents over 13 must be proficient with both rifle and pistol, and each household will have to provide one “able-bodied Patriot” for once-a-month militia training and support. (In its branding and literature, The Citadel refers often to the idea of the three percent or “the III,” an allusion to the idea that only three percent of the Colonial population participated in the Revolutionary War, a statistic the Anti-Defamation League has called “not particularly accurate.”) Every “able-bodied Patriot of age” within the Citadel will also be required to maintain one AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle, five magazines, and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

Those who agree to abide by the Patriot Agreement, and want to move to The Citadel, won’t be buying property. Instead, The Citadel will lease property to its residents (the website features a handy Citadel Housing Cost Calculator), with a range of lot sizes and customizable home exteriors available, and the option of living inside or outside the city walls.

39 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:39:06am

re: #34 calochortus

Black gang violence, I might add.

Is there any other kind to a Freeper?

40 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:39:21am

re: #33 sattv4u2

Good thing I got downdinged for my wait and see comment!!

{sigh}

But, it’s still the fault of Hollywood (and teh gay mayor) because Hollywood celebrates shooting someone over an argument.

41 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:39:46am

re: #34 calochortus

Black gang violence, I might add.

If only those blahs had gotten their mental health evaluations, this might never have happened.

/^inf

42 calochortus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:40:41am

re: #36 Lidane

///// x infinity

re: #39 Kragar

Illegal Hispanics?

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:40:48am

re: #27 Lidane

Ah. Poe’s Law got me, then. With all the idiocy at #TGDN that was inevitable.

It’s the damndest thing really. Not being able to tell spoof from reality.

44 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:41:04am

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

45 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:41:15am
“Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles,” the project’s website states.

At first they came for the Establishment Republicans… /

46 Gus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:08am

re: #29 Targetpractice

Freepers are arguing “gang violence.”

Yeah, saw some of that elsewhere. According to some unthinking people people gun violence and gun control are unrelated.

47 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:10am
KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed.

No one could have predicted…

48 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:18am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

LIT 2041: When Standing Your Critique Goes Wrong

49 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:20am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

If only the other students in the class had been armed!

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:28am

It looks like Twitter is revamping their embedded tweet code. I’m surprised that they didn’t test this on a development system before deploying it, because it’s not working yet.

51 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:31am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

So… which was the good guy with the gun who stopped the other?

This is so confusing…

52 Gus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:40am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Maybe but if anything I think the increased press coverage on the issue (and these incidents) may inspire some copycats. I don’t know if there’s been much of an uptick in shootings or just the press coverage. If you google “shooting” at random times you’ll notice that most of the shootings (mostly in urban, poor areas) still continue regularly with virtually no media coverage but even a minor shooting in a rich area, a college, or a red state gets lots of hype.
Even the gunshow accidents this past weekend happen fairly regularly (about one or two a month) but the increased press coverage lately is different.

Good point. So what we really should do is regulate the news media.

//

53 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:49am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

I told them never to bring up ‘emics’ vs ‘etics’ in Anthro 300 classes.

54 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:42:53am

re: #34 calochortus

Black gang violence, I might add.

Yeah, because gang members tend to also be college students.

*eyeroll*

55 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:43:11am

re: #29 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Freepers are arguing “gang violence.”

Yes, likely, because colleges are haven for gangs and gang violence. Derp.

56 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:43:14am

re: #42 calochortus

re: #39 Kragar

Illegal Hispanics?

Get your Freeper code words right:

Gangs = Blacks
Illegals = Hispanics
Chinese = any Asian

57 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:43:30am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Maybe but if anything I think the increased press coverage on the issue (and these incidents) may inspire some copycats. I don’t know if there’s been much of an uptick in shootings or just the press coverage. If you google “shooting” at random times you’ll notice that most of the shootings (mostly in urban, poor areas) still continue regularly with virtually no media coverage but even a minor shooting in a rich area, a college, or a red state gets lots of hype.
Even the gunshow accidents this past weekend happen fairly regularly (about one or two a month) but the increased press coverage lately is different.

Call me crazy, but arguing that there’s “too little” coverage of everyday shootings and “too much” of random shootings both converge to make the argument that there’s a very real problem with gun violence in this nation and calls to the media to look away from the problem are avoidance rather than solutions.

58 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:06am

re: #54 RadicalModerate

Yeah, because gang members tend to also be college students.

*eyeroll*

Who also hang out in college libraries…..no doubt its gangs.

59 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:23am

re: #56 Kragar

Get your Freeper code words right:

Gangs = Blacks
Illegals = Hispanics
Chinese = any Asian

Also, “liberal” and “RINO” are defined as anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.

60 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:29am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

If only the students had been allowed to carry their guns to…

Wait a fucking minute.

61 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:36am

re: #58 Dr. Matt

Who hang out in college libraries.

WE MUST PROTECT THIS STACK

62 calochortus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:44am

re: #56 Kragar

Get your Freeper code words right:

Gangs = Blacks
Illegals = Hispanics
Chinese = any Asian

Once again, I am redundant. Sigh…

63 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:50am

re: #56 Kragar

Get your Freeper code words right:

Gangs = Blacks
Illegals = Hispanics
Chinese = any Asian

Muslim= any dark skin Asian?

64 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:44:59am

Go, Cuomo, go!

Andrew Cuomo ‏@NYGovCuomo
#NYBudget: Increase #minwage from $7.25 to $8.75 effective July 1, 2013 pic.twitter.com/j9s9vG3d

65 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:03am

re: #57 Targetpractice

Call me crazy, but arguing that there’s “too little” coverage of everyday shootings and “too much” of random shootings both converge to make the argument that there’s a very real problem with gun violence in this nation and calls to the media to look away from the problem are avoidance rather than solutions.

There certainly is news coverage of (non-mass shooting) gun violence but it usually appears in local media, not national.

66 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:10am

re: #44 RadicalModerate

KHOU had an interview with an eyewitness to the shooting. From her statement, two students in class got into an argument with each other, who were both armed. One of them shot the other, as well as at least one bystander, one of whom might have been the professor in the classroom.

“An armed society is a polite society,” my ass.

67 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:15am

Test:

68 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:35am

re: #64 Four More Tears

Go, Cuomo, go!

Andrew Cuomo ‏@NYGovCuomo
#NYBudget: Increase #minwage from $7.25 to $8.75 effective July 1, 2013 pic.twitter.com/j9s9vG3d

Good deal.

69 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:43am

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Muslim= any dark skin Asian?

Now you’re getting it.

70 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:47am

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Muslim= any dark skin Asian in a turban?

ftfy

71 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:45:48am

re: #61 erik_t

WE MUST PROTECT THIS STACK

The Dewey Line.

72 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:11am

re: #70 Vicious Babushka

ftfy

True enough.

73 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:26am

It’s sad to see Ludwig losing his shit over fat people.

74 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:37am

re: #60 Kragar

If only the students had been allowed to carry their guns to…

Wait a fucking minute.

Since pretty much every NRA talking-point has been shot down by this event, any bets on how long it will be before someone claims that it is a staged “false flag” operation?

75 Gus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:41am

re: #67 Charles Johnson

Test:

Nice rectangle. //

76 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:44am

re: #66 Targetpractice

“An armed society is a polite society,” my ass.

Yeah no kidding. That’s probably among the most stupid phrases I’ve seen in the wake of these tragedies.

77 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:46:50am

Ah. I see what’s going on. They changed their code to use iframes.

Hmm. That could be a problem.

78 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:47:15am

re: #66 Targetpractice

“An armed society is a polite society,” my ass.

The age of Chivalry, where everyone went around armed, was also the age of bloody duels fought in the street over the slightest provocation.

79 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:48:26am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

The Dewey Line.

“THEY’VE OVER RUN THE FRENCH POETRY WING!”

80 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:49:09am

re: #78 Kragar

The age of Chivalry, where everyone went around armed, was also the age of bloody duels fought in the street over the slightest provocation.

Indeed, indeed. “You said something I didn’t like, now we fight to the death.”

81 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:49:40am

re: #79 Kragar

“THEY’VE OVER RUN THE FRENCH POETRY WING!”

Sharpie-marks in the library bathroom: the graffiti of the more enlightened gang member.

82 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:49:56am

re: #79 Kragar

“THEY’VE OVER RUN THE FRENCH POETRY WING!”

Mais ou sont les derps d’antan?

83 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:50:10am

re: #57 Targetpractice

Call me crazy, but arguing that there’s “too little” coverage of everyday shootings and “too much” of random shootings both converge to make the argument that there’s a very real problem with gun violence in this nation and calls to the media to look away from the problem are avoidance rather than solutions.

I agree but I think it’s important to realize that the increased press coverage of selected shootings doesn’t represent the reality of the situation. They are motivated by ratings and creating hype, not by a serious discussion of gun violence. Even as I was typing this the newscasters mentioned Sandy Hook even though this shooting (so far) looks completely unrelated on almost every level.

84 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:51:03am

re: #78 Kragar

The age of Chivalry, where everyone went around armed, was also the age of bloody duels fought in the street over the slightest provocation.

Why do you hate Amercia? /

85 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:51:15am

re: #64 Four More Tears

That’s a step in the right direction, but NYS faces a $1.35b deficit, and has to deal with rebuilding from #Sandy and addressing serious infrastructure needs. The money has to come from somewhere - whether it’s adjusting the $135b budget priorities, tax increases (though it will probably be fees and other revenue raisers as opposed to broad tax hikes), and not on spending reductions.

86 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:51:37am

re: #57 Targetpractice

Call me crazy, but arguing that there’s “too little” coverage of everyday shootings and “too much” of random shootings both converge to make the argument that there’s a very real problem with gun violence in this nation and calls to the media to look away from the problem are avoidance rather than solutions.

They don’t have an issues problem. They have a demographics and media coverage issue. (repeat as necessary)
//

87 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:53:07am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

The Dewey Line.

But once they gather the bookcarts and armor them they can just go around the flank via the card catalog.
;)

88 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:53:23am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Mais ou sont les derps d’antan?

Je ne parle pas Francais.

4 years of French, that’s all I can remember. 2 years of Latin and I can still read Caesar’s ” Commentaries on the Gallic War” in latin and still get by. Go figure.

89 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:54:24am

re: #84 Bulworth

Why do you hate Amercia? /

Do you want it by relevance, alphabetical or by date?

90 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:54:48am

(Lautenberg is introducing a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines holding more than 10 rounds - legislation he had introduced previously to no avail.)

91 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:54:58am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I agree but I think it’s important to realize that the increased press coverage of selected shootings doesn’t represent the reality of the situation. They are motivated by ratings and creating hype, not by a serious discussion of gun violence. Even as I was typing this the newscasters mentioned Sandy Hook even though this shooting (so far) looks completely unrelated on almost every level.

I have to respectfully disagree, I think the increased media coverage has stripped the thin veneer that has kept reports of such violence limited to the local level for years. That gun violence is an “urban” problem, with all the dark connotations that word carries, and that the problem is something that should be addressed by cracking down on a certain set of people rather than addressing the prevalence of guns in this nation.

92 Ming  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:55:17am

re: #66 Targetpractice

“An armed society is a polite society,” my ass.

Well, by “polite”, the NRA means “a society where libruls are discreet about what they say, and respectful towards gun-totin’ real Americans. No more high-falutin liberal talk!” If you start to think about the NRA’s dream of a “polite society”, it’s pretty chilling. An “intimidated society” is more like it. Apparently, some people really would prefer this.

93 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:55:28am

re: #56 Kragar

No no no. Blacks are known as “urban ferals” at freep.

94 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:55:33am

re: #50 Charles Johnson

It looks like Twitter is revamping their embedded tweet code. I’m surprised that they didn’t test this on a development system before deploying it, because it’s not working yet.

Dos Equis Guy: I never test my code, but when I do it’s on Production.

95 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:55:59am

I see embedded Tweets flash for a second and then disappear.

96 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:56:08am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

Dos Equis Guy: I never test my code, but when I do it’s on Production.

They’ve taken the Microsoft route of making the end-users the beta testers?

97 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:56:42am

re: #96 Targetpractice

They’ve taken the Microsoft route of making the end-users the beta testers?

The Most Interesting Programmer in the World works for Twitter right now?

98 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:56:49am

re: #91 Targetpractice

I have to respectfully disagree, I think the increased media coverage has stripped the thin veneer that has kept reports of such violence limited to the local level for years. That gun violence is an “urban” problem, with all the dark connotations that word carries, and that the problem is something that should be addressed by cracking down on a certain set of people rather than addressing the prevalence of guns in this nation.

It induces the viewer to look for local answers to a nationwide problem. This is rarely a helpful search.

99 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:57:01am

re: #96 Targetpractice

They’ve taken the Microsoft route of making the end-users the beta testers?

THEY ARE ROUNDING EVERYONE UP FOR TEH TWITTER GULAG!1!

100 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:57:07am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

Dos Equis Guy: I never test my code, but when I do it’s on Production.

Old joke: “Microsoft has decided to remarket their next version of Windows as a fun new videogame called Bughunt.”

101 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:57:34am

re: #100 Kragar

Old joke: “Microsoft has decided to remarket their next version of Windows as a fun new videogame called Bughunt.”

that’s not a bug, that’s a FEATURE!

102 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:57:38am

re: #92 Ming

Well, by “polite”, the NRA means “a society where libruls are discreet about what they say, and respectful towards gun-totin’ real Americans. No more high-falutin liberal talk!” If you start to think about the NRA’s dream of a “polite society”, it’s pretty chilling. An “intimidated society” is more like it. Apparently, some people really would prefer this.

Yep.

103 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:58:19am

re: #100 Kragar

Old joke: “Microsoft has decided to remarket their next version of Windows as fun new videogame called Bughunt.”

It’s prep work for the release of Unicorn Apocalypse.
;)

104 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:58:23am

Looks like armed guards are not a deterrent (links to lonestar.edu):

We employ both commissioned police officers, who have the same powers and abilities as any other police officer, as well as non-commissioned security guards. Our security guards are civilian employees that support the police department by providing extra eyes and ears, and who deal with non-police calls for service, allowing the police officers to concentrate on proactive patrol of the campuses. Police officers wear blue shirts and have badges and shoulder emblems that say “police”. Security guards wear white shirts and do not have badges. Their shoulder emblem and their photo ID cards say “Guard”. Police officers carry department-approved handguns, whereas security guards are unarmed.

105 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:58:31am

re: #101 Vicious Babushka

that’s not a bug, that’s a FEATURE!

“THEY’RE COMING OUT OF THE WALLS!”

106 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:58:56am

The marketing of gun hysteria has worked so well that police are experiencing nationwide ammo shortages

[Link: cnsnews.com…]

107 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:59:18am

re: #103 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s prep work for the release of Unicorn Apocalypse.
;)

I still think the Mayan Alpacalypse was a real let down.

108 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:59:55am

re: #104 Dr. Matt

Looks like armed guards are not a deterrent (links to lonestar.edu):

Nor is the armed good-guy (presuming that the story is correct that this was an argument between two individuals, only one of whom could reasonably be considered the aggressor).

109 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:00:13pm

re: #107 Kragar

I still think the Mayan Alpacalypse was a real let down.

That’s because the pump stack broke down and couldn’t supply enough magma.

110 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:01:44pm

re: #104 Dr. Matt

Looks like armed guards are not a deterrent (links to lonestar.edu):

They’re saying that one of the victims was a professor, which is no doubt going to be seen as reason to ratchet up the call to arm educators.

111 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:01:56pm

re: #107 Kragar

I still think the Mayan Alpacalypse was a real let down.

The only thing that did not survive was Twinkies.

112 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:02:23pm

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

The only thing that did not survive was Twinkies.

Who the fuck could’ve seen that one coming???
/

113 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:02:31pm

re: #105 Kragar

Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. /Hicks

114 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:02:32pm

Barber: If Abortion Were Illegal, AIDS Would Probably be Cured by Now

On today’s “Faith and Freedom” radio broadcast, Matt Barber marked the 40th anniversary of Roe v Wade by declaring that AIDS activists ought to be anti-choice because “there is probably a really good chance that whoever it was that was going to find the cure for AIDS … that that person has already been slaughtered in the womb”:

What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

115 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:02:47pm

re: #107 Kragar

I still think the Mayan Alpacalypse was a real let down.

People are disappointed. There were two Mayan calendars at the local flea market this weekend. NO modern AR/AK weapons, though there were dozens in November.

116 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:03:13pm

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

The only thing that did not survive was Twinkies.

And yet, my supermarket was able to sell their own version in less than a week.

117 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:04:03pm

re: #114 Kragar

Barber: If Abortion Were Illegal, AIDS Would Probably be Cured by Now

What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

The sort that springs from the mindset that every sperm is sacred.

118 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:04:43pm

re: #114 Kragar

Barber: If Abortion Were Illegal, AIDS Would Probably be Cured by Now

What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

Okaaaayyyyy….
It probably also prevented the next Hitler!
/

119 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:05:04pm

re: #114 Kragar

Barber: If Abortion Were Illegal, AIDS Would Probably be Cured by Now

What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

I don’t know. I can’t even respond to how stupid that is.

120 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:05:22pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

Okaaaayyyyy….
It probably also prevented the next Hitler!
/

Nah Obama was born before Roe.//

121 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:05:47pm

Or one of the Sandy Hook kids might have cured it…

122 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:05:49pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

Okaaaayyyyy….
It probably also prevented the next Hitler!
/

And also offset by not having half of your potential intelligences locked away in the kitchen fixing dinner and deemed unworthy of educating.
/

123 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:05:57pm

Sandy Rios is sad that non-Christians have equal rights

“When he lists all these denominations and atheists and Buddhists and Muslims it’s like we’re all equal, of equal proportion, and we are not,” Rios said, once again revealing that the AFA does indeed believe that people who do not subscribe to its version of Christianity are inferior and minority rights should be dictated by the whims of the majority.

Federer agreed and said it was part of Obama’s “intentional denigration of the contributions of Judeo-Christian faith in America’s history” and went on to say that “Obama’s been using the bully pulpit to advance Islam.”

Later, Rios mourned that African-American Christians support Obama even though he is working to “usher in a time of godlessness” and is “radically transforming this country” by including an openly gay poet and a gay band contingent in inaugural festivities. She naturally ended by doubting Obama’s Christian faith and patriotism: “Something is terribly wrong and it’s terribly wrong to see this man swear allegiance to the country on the bibles of men who went before him who were men who understood faith and who God was.”

124 Gus  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:06:14pm

re: #114 Kragar

Barber: If Abortion Were Illegal, AIDS Would Probably be Cured by Now

What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

Liberty Council. That’s a Christian version of the ACLU. //

125 Destro  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:07:17pm

Wow, another campus shooting? You mean it’s a normal day in the greatest country on earth!

126 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:07:24pm

re: #123 Kragar

Sandy Rios is sad that non-Christians have equal rights

For a bunch of people who claim to love America, people like this sure do hate a lot of the things that make America great. The whole religious freedom thing was why many of my ancestors emigrated.

127 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:08:01pm

re: #123 Kragar

Sandy Rios is sad that non-Christians have equal rights

What? The poet was gay? Is there no stopping the Rainbow Infiltration?

128 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:08:08pm

re: #78 Kragar

The age of Chivalry, where everyone went around armed, was also the age of bloody duels fought in the street over the slightest provocation.

Which is actually one of the things Heinlein talked about in “Beyond This Horizon” where the quote comes from. The society involved was quite violent.

129 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:08:17pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

For a bunch of people who claim to love America, people like this sure do hate a lot of the things that make America great. The whole religious freedom thing was why many of my ancestors emigrated.

Unfortunately that included groups that immigrated in order to be able to impose their religious rules on others.

130 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:08:57pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

For a bunch of people who claim to love America, people like this sure do hate a lot of the things that make America great. The whole religious freedom thing was why many of my ancestors emigrated.

But people keep stepping on the AFA’s religious right to tell other people what religion they should be and how to live their lives. It’s just not fair.
///

131 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:09:12pm

re: #123 Kragar

Sandy Rios is sad that non-Christians have equal rights

Didn’t their god say something about not judging people???

132 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:10:27pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

Didn’t their god say something about not judging people???

Its means heathens should keep their mouth shut, according to modern interpretation.

133 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:10:28pm

re: #129 Feline Fearless Leader

Unfortunately that included groups that immigrated in order to be able to impose their religious rules on others.

Ever hear that Cromwell nearly emigrated to the New World?

134 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:10:37pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

What? The poet was gay? Is there no stopping the Rainbow Infiltration?

Nope.

135 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:10:45pm

Testing…

136 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:11:00pm

Gay poet? Oh no. Commence the burning of My Captain, My Captain.

137 blueraven  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:11:22pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Maybe but if anything I think the increased press coverage on the issue (and these incidents) may inspire some copycats. I don’t know if there’s been much of an uptick in shootings or just the press coverage. If you google “shooting” at random times you’ll notice that most of the shootings (mostly in urban, poor areas) still continue regularly with virtually no media coverage but even a minor shooting in a rich area, a college, or a red state gets lots of hype.
Even the gunshow accidents this past weekend happen fairly regularly (about one or two a month) but the increased press coverage lately is different.

This is pure sarc, right?

138 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:11:40pm

KHOU aired this pic a few minutes ago claiming it was a tweet of a person taking cover inside a Lone Star classroom:

Image: Lonestar_tweet.JPG

But, I’m calling ‘bullshit’. There are two people to the right who are not taking cover and the guy looks like he’s acting.

139 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:12:31pm

Pennsylvania girl, 5, suspended for talk of ‘shooting’ a Hello Kitty ‘bubble gun’

A 5-year-old girl chats up classmates while waiting for the bus after school. The topic: Playing with a Hello Kitty “bubble gun” that, with the flick of a finger, blows bubbles everywhere.

“I’ll shoot you, you shoot me, and we’ll all play together,” the kindergartner says.

The next day, that remark — which was made innocently, according to the lawyer for the girl’s family, who related the story — landed the young central Pennsylvanian child in the principal’s office.

Soon after, she was sent home after being issued a 10-day suspension for a “terroristic threat,” as indicated on the suspension form signed by Mount Carmel Area Elementary School Principal Susan Nestico. That and other documents were provided to CNN by Robin Ficker, the lawyer representing the girl and her mother.

140 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:13:38pm

re: #135 Charles Johnson

Testing…

what did he die from? I never really follwed it past the fact that he died…

141 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:14:00pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Pennsylvania girl, 5, suspended for talk of ‘shooting’ a Hello Kitty ‘bubble gun’

Stupid. I mean I understand why they may have gotten alarmed but after finding out the details, they should have dropped the suspension.

142 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:14:32pm

re: #140 Sol Berdinowitz

what did he die from? I never really follwed it past the fact that he died…

I think the autopsy found a lot of cocaine in his system. He had heart trouble too. Not exactly a smart thing to mix.

143 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:14:39pm

re: #140 Sol Berdinowitz

what did he die from? I never really follwed it past the fact that he died…

Heart failure due to an enlarged heart.

144 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:08pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Stupid. I mean I understand why they may have gotten alarmed but after finding out the details, they should have dropped the suspension.

This happens a lot. Very incompetent and insecure people get edgy and overreact for fear of being accused of not reacting enough…

145 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:18pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

I think the autopsy found a lot of cocaine in his system. He had heart trouble too. Not exactly a smart thing to mix.

No drugs were found.

146 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:22pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Pennsylvania girl, 5, suspended for talk of ‘shooting’ a Hello Kitty ‘bubble gun’

Schools don’t have the luxury of “case-by-case.”

147 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:24pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

It’s so sad that in the US, elementary school principals have to walk on eggshells when it comes to kids talking about guns and shooting people.

It’s almost as if we should, I don’t know, pass some laws that would reduce the risk of kids getting their hands on unsecured firearms.

148 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:52pm

re: #138 Dr. Matt

KHOU aired this pic a few minutes ago claiming it was a tweet of a person taking cover inside a Lone Star classroom:

Image: Lonestar_tweet.JPG

But, I’m calling ‘bullshit’. There are two people to the right who are not taking cover and the guy looks like he’s acting.

There’s lettering on the back of one of those persons jackets CAn’t make it out but could be campus police or security talking to each other

149 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:53pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

No drugs were found.

well, that’s one theory, but I read on this website…

150 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:55pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Stupid. I mean I understand why they may have gotten alarmed but after finding out the details, they should have dropped the suspension.

I would guess it’s probably one of those zero tolerance sort of things. No common sense involved or allowed in the decision.

151 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:15:57pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

No drugs were found.

Ah my mistake then. So it was just the enlarged heart? He probably had a similar condition to the one I have. My aorta is enlarged.

152 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:16:30pm

re: #144 Sol Berdinowitz

This happens a lot. Very incompetent and insecure people get edgy and overreact for fear of being accused of not reacting enough…

Exactly. School decides kid was “just playing,” takes no action, kid comes to school next day with gun and shoots half a classroom. Now school is liable for not taking action when “warning signs” were present.

153 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:16:35pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

No drugs were found.

It was a seekrit poison that dissipates before any tox screen!1!

154 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:16:37pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Ah my mistake then. So it was just the enlarged heart? He probably had a similar condition to the one I have. My aorta is enlarged.

A friend of his said that he had a serious heart attack a month or so before he died.

155 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:16:56pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

I would guess it’s probably one of those zero tolerance sort of things. No common sense involved or allowed in the decision.

Yeah, well it’s stupid. Zero tolerance rules are why kids who defend themselves against bullies end up getting the same punishment as the bully. I don’t think it’s right.

156 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:17:41pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Ah my mistake then. So it was just the enlarged heart? He probably had a similar condition to the one I have. My aorta is enlarged.

Then you probably shouldn’t spend your time screaming in mindless rage.

157 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:18:04pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Schools don’t have the luxury of “case-by-case.”

Using the term “terrorist threat,” is way over the top, a 5 yr old doesn’t even know what a “terroristic threat,” is.

158 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:18:15pm
What kind of asinine horseshit is this?

The kind that claims to be “prolife”, as long as the life in question is not out of the womb.

159 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:18:16pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

Then you probably shouldn’t spend your time screaming in mindless rage.

Ha, me or Andy? I’m actually a pretty quiet guy.

160 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:18:27pm

re: #138 Dr. Matt

KHOU aired this pic a few minutes ago claiming it was a tweet of a person taking cover inside a Lone Star classroom:

Image: Lonestar_tweet.JPG

But, I’m calling ‘bullshit’. There are two people to the right who are not taking cover and the guy looks like he’s acting.

The camera man taking the picture is also standing, conveniently include the school logo in the pic. Probably BS

161 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:00pm

re: #159 HappyWarrior

Ha, me or Andy? I’m actually a pretty quiet guy.

See? You outlived him.

162 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:06pm

re: #148 sattv4u2

There’s lettering on the back of one of those persons jackets CAn’t make it out but could be campus police or security talking to each other

The guy “taking cover” looks to be wearing similar (or the same) clothing to the other two: uniform blue pants and shirt and military style boots. Considering this is a community college, they may be fire fighter/EMS/police trainees.

163 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:07pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Stupid. I mean I understand why they may have gotten alarmed but after finding out the details, they should have dropped the suspension.

Well, they did reduce it to 2 days from 10. That’s something.

164 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:16pm

I mean I understand why schools take stuff like this seriously but they should evaluate on a case by case basis. That girl shouldn’t be punished let alone suspended.

165 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:46pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Schools don’t have the luxury of “case-by-case.”

Fucking nonsense.

They absolutely have the “luxury” of using judgement.

That they don’t teaches our children that adults are mindless drones who have no will of their own and hurt the innocent for the sake of authority. BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE DOING.

166 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:19:55pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

See? You outlived him.

I’m also like fifteen-twenty years younger :).

167 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:20:06pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The camera man taking the picture is also standing, conveniently include the school logo in the pic. Probably BS

Could be, but see #148. Also the cameraman may have purposefully included the school logo in the pic to “prove” where they are

Again 24 hr rule

168 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:20:09pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

I mean I understand why schools take stuff like this seriously but they should evaluate on a case by case basis. That girl shouldn’t be punished let alone suspended.

Again, “case-by-case” works right up until a bad call is made, then the school is in court arguing that the call was a good one when made.

169 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:20:48pm

re: #157 Tigger2

Using the term “terrorist threat,” is way over the top, a 5 yr old doesn’t even know what a “terroristic threat,” is.

I don’t know, actually. Kid says “my mommy has a gun at home” to other kid in bus line? Other kid tells her parents, parents freak out? There have definitely been incidents of small kids getting hold of their folks’ guns.

Obviously the language is boilerplate, but if that’s how the incident gets reported, how is the school meant to determine what the situation is, absent any other facts?

170 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:21:04pm

re: #168 Targetpractice

Again, “case-by-case” works right up until a bad call is made, then the school is in court arguing that the call was a good one when made.

Fair enough. I just don’t see why this girl should have been suspended.

171 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:21:06pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Also I regret that I have only one downding to give.

172 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:21:06pm

re: #165 stabby

Fucking nonsense.

They absolutely have the “luxury” of using judgement.

That they don’t teaches our children that adults are mindless drones who have no will of their own and hurt the innocent for the sake of authority. BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE DOING.

Perhaps if we didn’t treat schools as public-funded daycare, we wouldn’t have to worry about the values they’re teaching our children.

173 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:23:48pm

Time to hit the bike and weight-stack. Calories, and all. BBL

174 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:23:49pm

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Fair enough. I just don’t see why this girl should have been suspended.

I know nothing about the case, but maybe the other kid freaked out when the girl told her she was going to shoot her?

I’ve just been through the whole “no, the world isn’t going to end in December” with an otherwise very bright and grounded 8 year-old.

To be honest, the only reason this is news is because (of course, this is America) the parents are suing the school. Just go and see the principal, talk it over, two day suspension, whatever. But no, get the fucking vultures involved.

175 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:24:45pm

BTW, for those following the Israeli elections, it looks like Kadima is done. They didn’t reach the threshold for a seat. Sharon’s experiment ends with a whimper.

The big winner? Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid. Looks like he’s going to manage a caucus of 19 seats. Second largest in Knesset behind Bibi’s Likud block with 31.

With all the other parties, it looks like things are split and Bibi will get opportunity to form new government. He should be able to get to 61 with the usual suspects. I’d be very surprised if he tries to get Lapid to join - workable if they intend to act on the Tal Law.

176 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:25:31pm

re: #175 lawhawk

BTW, for those following the Israeli elections, it looks like Kadima is done. They didn’t reach the threshold for a seat. Sharon’s experiment ends with a whimper.

The big winner? Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid. Looks like he’s going to manage a caucus of 19 seats. Second largest in Knesset behind Bibi’s Likud block with 31.

With all the other parties, it looks like things are split and Bibi will get opportunity to form new government. He should be able to get to 61 with the usual suspects. I’d be very surprised if he tries to get Lapid to join - workable if they intend to act on the Tal Law.

Mazal tov Yair.

177 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:26:04pm

re: #172 Targetpractice

Perhaps if we didn’t treat schools as public-funded daycare, we wouldn’t have to worry about the values they’re teaching our children.

I haven’t the foggiest clue what you think you just said. As far as I can tell the words are meaningless.

178 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:27:16pm

re: #177 stabby

I haven’t the foggiest clue what you think you just said. As far as I can tell the words are meaningless.

I’ve lost count of the number of parents I’ve run into over the years who don’t care what their kid does at school until the school suspends them. Then they’re raising hell over what right the school has to suspend their kid over something “simple.”

179 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:27:20pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Schools don’t have the luxury of “case-by-case.”

Of course they do. School administrations deliberately choose ridiculous “zero-tolerance” policies precisely so that they won’t have to take responsibility for using their own judgment. Then it escalates to the point where they’re getting law enforcement involved for things like dress code violations and 5 year olds talking about Hello Kitty bubble guns. Once this mentality mixes with NRA-sanctioned armed guards on high school campuses, it’ll eventually come to pass that a fist fight will be answered with gunfire from a school employee, and then the usual gang of idiots will say two things:

1. ‘Nobody could have foreseen this’, and
2. ‘Well they wouldn’t have been shot by the principal if they hadn’t been doing anything wrong!’

180 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:27:54pm

re: #177 stabby

I haven’t the foggiest clue what you think you just said. As far as I can tell the words are meaningless.

You have no idea of what TP meant yet felt strong enough about it to downding it

Do you react that way to many things in your life you don’t understand?

{sigh}

181 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:28:15pm

re: #174 iossarian

I know nothing about the case, but maybe the other kid freaked out when the girl told her she was going to shoot her?

I’ve just been through the whole “no, the world isn’t going to end in December” with an otherwise very bright and grounded 8 year-old.

To be honest, the only reason this is news is because (of course, this is America) the parents are suing the school. Just go and see the principal, talk it over, two day suspension, whatever. But no, get the fucking vultures involved.

All good points. But yeah talking it over would have been the more productive thing then running to the lawyers.

182 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:29:06pm

re: #179 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Of course they do. School administrations deliberately choose ridiculous “zero-tolerance” policies precisely so that they won’t have to take responsibility for using their own judgment. Then it escalates to the point where they’re getting law enforcement involved for things like dress code violations and 5 year olds talking about Hello Kitty bubble guns. Once this mentality mixes with NRA-sanctioned armed guards on high school campuses, it’ll eventually come to pass that a fist fight will be answered with gunfire from a school employee, and then the usual gang of idiots will say two things:

1. ‘Nobody could have foreseen this’, and
2. ‘Well they wouldn’t have been shot by the principal if they hadn’t been doing anything wrong!’

Fine, then pass laws to absolve them of liability when they use their judgment and it leads to a shooting anyway. You want them to use their “judgment,” knowing that if they make a bad call, the lawyers will be suing their asses for millions.

183 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:29:07pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

I’ve lost count of the number of parents I’ve run into over the years who don’t care what their kid does at school until the school suspends them. Then they’re raising hell over what right the school has to suspend their kid over something “simple.”

Might be the type of “parents” you interact with because the parents I interact with, who I have lost count of, DO care what their kids do at school and they DON’T get suspended.

184 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:29:27pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

I’ve lost count of the number of parents I’ve run into over the years who don’t care what their kid does at school until the school suspends them. Then they’re raising hell over what right the school has to suspend their kid over something “simple.”

Agree with you here especially when it comes to something like bullying. Too often we see parents dismiss their children’s bullying as “just kids being kids and the other kid should just man up.”

185 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:29:28pm

re: #168 Targetpractice

Because we have a civil court system in our country, our schools have to make bad, senseless rules rather than sensible ones that involved intelligence, expertise, judgement and experience?

Obviously there are incompetently run institutions all over the country that have taken that stupid stupid line. But they’re full of shit and you’re full of shit.

186 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:30:32pm

re: #180 sattv4u2

He defended something really really stupid by blowing smoke. Deserves a downding.

Also he should try harder to think clearly and communicate clearly.

187 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:31:11pm

re: #185 stabby

Because we have a civil court system in our country, our schools have to make bad, senseless rules rather than sensible ones that involved intelligence, expertise, judgement and experience?

Obviously there are incompetently run institutions all over the country that have taken that stupid stupid line. But they’re full of shit and you’re full of shit.

Yes, schools have to make these choices because “intelligence, expertise, judgment, and experience” are not always something parents have in abundance.

188 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:31:59pm

re: #182 Targetpractice

Fine, then pass laws to absolve them of liability when they use their judgment and it leads to a shooting anyway. You want them to use their “judgment,” knowing that if they make a bad call, the lawyers will be suing their asses for millions.

Leads to shooting by 7 year-olds wielding hello kitty bubble guns?
You’re awfully weird, dude.

189 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:32:22pm

re: #186 stabby

He defended something really really stupid by blowing smoke. Deserves a downding.

Also he should try harder to think clearly and communicate clearly.

I understood it from the start! You stated that you didn’t but now state “He defended something really really stupid by blowing smoke”

So which is it. Did you understand it or not?

190 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:32:50pm

re: #187 Targetpractice

It’s not the parents job to run schools its the administrators’ job.

191 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:32:52pm

re: #185 stabby

I don’t think that’s a very productive comment.

I work for a higher education institution. We have to do dumb “zero tolerance” things all the time, because if you don’t you’re looking at an enormous lawsuit when some rich kid, and his caffeine-crazed C-level parents, get it into their heads that your “case-by-case” system led to Bobby not getting a fair shake.

That’s the world we live in. Parents who get the lawyers involved for every little thing are just the other side of the “zero tolerance” game.

Suck it up people.

192 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:33:47pm

House Republican Leader Blames Gun Violence On ‘Welfare Moms’

Rep. James Lankford (R-OK), the fifth-ranking House Republican, laid the blame for gun violence at the feet of an unusual suspect: the children of “welfare moms” who commit fraud.

In a meeting with constituents earlier this month in Oklahoma City, a woman asked the GOP congressman what he was doing to combat all the children who were committing gun violence because they were high on psychotropic drugs. Lankford replied that he “agree[s] with that” and then went on to blame Social Security disability fraud for the rash of gun violence around the country. “Quite frankly some of the overmedication of kids are because welfare moms want to get additional benefits,”

193 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:33:49pm

re: #190 stabby

It’s not the parents job to run schools its the administrators’ job.

Then let them do their jobs without worrying that parents will sue their asses for doing them.

194 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:33:57pm

re: #189 sattv4u2

It’s meaningless. No I don’t really know what he thought he was complaining about.

Probably something irrelevant because he failed to make a relevant argument. He’s free to write something clear whenever he wants.

195 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:34:37pm
196 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:35:03pm

re: #192 Kragar

House Republican Leader Blames Gun Violence On ‘Welfare Moms’

Because the one thing ‘Welfare Moms’ have outrageous and excessive access to is health care.

GET FUCKED, MR. LANKFORD

197 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:36:05pm

re: #194 stabby

It’s meaningless. No I don’t really know what he thought he was complaining about.

Probably something irrelevant because he failed to make a relevant argument. He’s free to write something clear whenever he wants.

So again, you downdinged something you had no idea of!

Thanks for clarifying that!

198 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:36:08pm

re: #196 erik_t

Because the one thing ‘Welfare Moms’ have outrageous and excessive access to is health care.

GET FUCKED, MR. LANKFORD

Seriously. What an ass. My god, we elect some very stupid people in our name to office.

199 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:36:09pm

re: #191 iossarian

I’m saying that the schools should “suck it up” and take the risk of having good governance and rules. It’s a risk? Live with the risk, learn to manage the risk without compromising the way you treat children. Or lobby the parents, or lobby the government.

Your current solution isn’t acceptable.

200 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:36:48pm

re: #188 stabby

Leads to shooting by 7 year-olds wielding hello kitty bubble guns?
You’re awfully weird, dude.

Schools have to impose “zero-tolerance rules” because the 7-yr old playing with the bubble gun today might be the 7-yr old playing with daddy’s “toy” tomorrow.

The argument that the kid doesn’t understand what they’re saying or doing is great, right up until they fail to realize that shooting another kid doesn’t mean they get right back up and keep playing.

201 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:37:15pm

re: #199 stabby

I’m saying that the schools should “suck it up” and take the risk of having good governance and rules. It’s a risk? Live with the risk, learn to manage the risk without compromising the way you treat children. Or lobby the parents, or lobby the government.

Your current solution isn’t acceptable.

Why isn’t it acceptable? Because you’re not the one facing multi-million dollar lawsuits?

202 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:37:19pm

re: #191 iossarian


Suck it up people.

It’s not acceptable to tell 7 year olds to “suck it up” for your incompetent rules.

203 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:37:23pm

re: #192 Kragar

House Republican Leader Blames Gun Violence On ‘Welfare Moms’

That “Welfare Moms” shit is so 1970s and 1980s Lankford and the Republicans should get with the times.

204 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:37:51pm

re: #203 Tigger2

That “Welfare Moms” shit is so 1970s and 1980s Lankford and the Republicans should get with the times.

So you’re suggesting that I grow an afro?

205 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:37:56pm

Illinois ‘Family’ Group: Gays Are ‘Perfectly Free’ To Marry The Opposite Sex

First, those who choose to place their same-sex attraction at the center of their identity are “treated like anyone else under the law.” They are perfectly free to participate in the sexually complementary institution of marriage. They choose not to. They are not asking to be treated equally. They are demanding to be treated specially. They want the unilateral right to jettison the central defining feature of marriage (i.e. sexual complementarity) — something, by the way, that polygamists, polyamorists, “minor-attracted persons,” and sibling-lovers are not permitted to do.

I thought the central feature of marriage was sharing your life with the person you love.

206 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:38:35pm

re: #205 Kragar

Illinois ‘Family’ Group: Gays Are ‘Perfectly Free’ To Marry The Opposite Sex

I’ll take Missing The Goddamn Point for $1,000, Alex.

207 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:38:40pm

re: #192 Kragar

House Republican Leader Blames Gun Violence On ‘Welfare Moms’

Translation: It’s them black people’s fault.

208 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:38:50pm

re: #204 HappyWarrior

So you’re suggesting that I grow an afro?

Post a pic if ya do. lol

209 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:39:13pm

re: #205 Kragar

Illinois ‘Family’ Group: Gays Are ‘Perfectly Free’ To Marry The Opposite Sex

I thought the central feature of marriage was sharing your life with the person you love.

Bachmann made this argument I remember. This is so stupid. Sick of them comparing gays to pedophiles, polygamists, and polyamorists too.

210 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:39:26pm

re: #205 Kragar

Illinois ‘Family’ Group: Gays Are ‘Perfectly Free’ To Marry The Opposite Sex

I thought the central feature of marriage was sharing your life with the person you love.

You don’t need love to pump out fifteen financially unsupportable babies. Duh.

211 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:39:50pm

re: #203 Tigger2

That “Welfare Moms” shit is so 1970s and 1980s Lankford and the Republicans should get with the times.

You’re talking about people who keep talking about Communism and the Soviet Union.

They’re 30 years behind the times and they like it that way, dammit. Things made sense back then.

////

212 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:40:41pm

re: #184 HappyWarrior

Agree with you here especially when it comes to something like bullying. Too often we see parents dismiss their children’s bullying as “just kids being kids and the other kid should just man up.”

These days, that bullied kid “manning up” often consists of them bringing guns to school and releasing their anger in a hail of bullets. :-/

213 A Mom Anon  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:41:33pm

re: #182 Targetpractice

It’s entirely possible the parents did try other things before calling an attorney. Sometimes that’s the ONLY thing an administrator will take the time to respond to.

As my son’s special education advocate, navigating the school system for 13 yrs,(spending as much time in an actual school building as many school employees) I can tell you that there’s a lot wrong with zero tolerance, let alone all the other issues that exist in today’s system. You’d be amazed the priorities admins have that have NOTHING to do with education.

214 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:42:10pm

re: #199 stabby

I’m saying that the schools should “suck it up” and take the risk of having good governance and rules. It’s a risk? Live with the risk, learn to manage the risk without compromising the way you treat children. Or lobby the parents, or lobby the government.

Your current solution isn’t acceptable.

“Learn to manage the risk?” What do you think zero-tolerance policies are for? They’re for managing risk in a way that has been deemed appropriate.

My current solution is very acceptable to the regents of my institution, BTW, because they’re the ones who approve it.

Obviously in an ideal world we would have sane gun laws and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

215 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:42:31pm

Look iossarian, Targetpractice and sattv4u2 this matters because the principle applies to much more important bad decisions that our schools have made in response to the same kind of pressure.

Our school have compromised deeply on how their treat our children and on how teachers can teach.

EVERY decision made in the face of cowardly fear of lawsuits was an over-the-top draconian mistake. EVERY one of the compromised what a school should be.

216 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:42:59pm

re: #206 Lidane

I’ll take Missing The Goddamn Point for $1,000, Alex.

Anal bum cover!

217 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:43:22pm

re: #208 Tigger2

Post a pic if ya do. lol

Hey if it meant I could sing like Luke Kelly could, I’d consider it but hair alone……..

218 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:44:25pm

re: #214 iossarian

I meant “manage risk” by things like:
1) buying insurance
2) educating the parents as to how policies work so that they won’t sue
3) paying money to keep lawyers on retainer

you know, the things you can do to manage the risk without turning the school into a Kafkaesk nightmare.

219 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:44:55pm

re: #216 efuseakay

Anal bum cover!

“The category is foreign flicks.”
“URSULA ANDRESS!!!”
“I SAID FLICKS!”

220 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:45:02pm

re: #202 stabby

It’s not acceptable to tell 7 year olds to “suck it up” for your incompetent rules.

Grow up. The kid was eventually going to be suspended for two days, after having it explained to her that it’s not OK to joke about shooting people. Big deal, except that obviously it’s time for the lawyers to cash in.

If the principal at my school told me my kid would be suspended for two days because of some dumb rule, I would most likely “suck it up” because that’s the cost of living in society and having people educate your kids for a pretty unimpressive wage packet.

Again, in a country with sane gun laws, this wouldn’t be a problem. But we don’t live in that country, we live in America, where every so often a five year old kills another five year old with the home protection device.

221 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:45:27pm

Maybe you can require parents to sign away their right to sue under certain circumstances.

222 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:45:40pm

re: #217 HappyWarrior

Hey if it meant I could sing like Luke Kelly could, I’d consider it but hair alone……..

You’re lucky you can grow an Afro, hell I’d be happy if I could grow some hair on my head.

223 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:45:59pm

re: #218 stabby

I meant “manage risk” by things like:
1) buying insurance
2) educating the parents as to how policies work so that they won’t sue
3) paying money to keep lawyers on retainer

you know, the things you can do to manage the risk without turning the school into a Kafkaesk nightmare.

In other words, the school should just accept that it will be sued and take expensive measures as precaution. So what value does that teach our children?

224 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:46:11pm

Don’t worry folks, Jindal’s school vouchers will solve everything!

225 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:47:12pm

re: #215 stabby

EVERY decision made in the face of cowardly fear of lawsuits was an over-the-top draconian mistake. EVERY one of the compromised what a school should be

I agree, but the problem(s) lie not with the schools, but with those parents that (as TP originally stated) any time little “Johnny” or “Mary” got disciplined the parent would be running off to the family lawyer looking for ,,,, (fill in the blank)

Hence, blanket “zero tolerance” rules came into effect so the schools can now say “sorry Mrs J, but ,,,,”

226 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:47:14pm

re: #219 Kragar

“The category is foreign flicks.”
“URSULA ANDRESS!!!”
“I SAID FLICKS!”

That’s the sound your mother made last night!

227 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:47:24pm

re: #220 iossarian

And you’re teaching the children to be self righteously cowardly and bureaucratic, apparently.

And that’s what we want our children to turn the country into - more dysfunctional hell holes. I hear lots of corporations are like that, so our early training is working!

228 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:48:16pm

re: #223 Targetpractice

It teaches them that it’s worth the effort to take risks to do the right thing for the people you’re responsible for.

229 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:50:05pm

It teaches that responsibility isn’t the same thing as taking the easiest path.

230 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:50:13pm

re: #226 efuseakay

That’s the sound your mother made last night!

“Well, well, well, Trebek, fancy seeing you again. It’s been a while.”
“Not long enough.”
“That’s not what your mother said last night.”

231 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:50:31pm

re: #228 stabby

It teaches them that it’s worth the effort to take risks to do the right thing for the people you’re responsible for.

You could teach that easier by just passing law to absolve schools of liability for the actions they take to teach our children.

232 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:51:09pm

re: #106 stabby

That’s not gonna fact check well at all. I know of one huge public ranges that is having no trouble buying by the pallet. Unless CA has some stockpile that the rest of the country does not…

233 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:51:44pm

re: #218 stabby

I meant “manage risk” by things like:
1) buying insurance
2) educating the parents as to how policies work so that they won’t sue
3) paying money to keep lawyers on retainer

you know, the things you can do to manage the risk without turning the school into a Kafkaesk nightmare.

bwa-hahahahaha. Oh, dear, let me wipe the tears from my eyes.

Schools buy insurance. it is already expensive. it would be more expensive to manage this. Perhaps you’ve noticed that people have this thing against paying taxes.

Educating the parents… oh, great goo, how I wish. Every school I know sends home its policies with the students (see student handbook). They’re invited to an opening session where the rules are discussed. If the parents won’t read and won’t come, how do you intend to educate them?

Retain attorneys - they do, already. See insurance.

Do the schools overdo it? yes. But there are multiple reasons they go the zero-tolerance, and an awful lot of them amount to “best we can do with the restrictions and funding we’ve got.”

234 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:52:46pm

re: #218 stabby

3) paying money to keep lawyers on retainer

Oh yes. My school district, which is currently debating whether to keep libraries open for half days only or for three full days a week, should totally hire some hotshot lawyers so that they can then spend some extra time debating each minor disciplinary case before reaching a sensitive and balanced decision.

Or, people could accept that sometimes you get a slightly bum deal.

Two day suspension! It’s not exactly the end of the world. And you get to explain to kids that it’s never OK to shoot someone, even if it’s for pretend.

235 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:53:20pm

re: #227 stabby

And you’re teaching the children to be self righteously cowardly and bureaucratic, apparently.

And that’s what we want our children to turn the country into - more dysfunctional hell holes. I hear lots of corporations are like that, so our early training is working!

Haha, it’s all your fault, iossarian.

236 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:54:25pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

I think the autopsy found a lot of cocaine in his system. He had heart trouble too. Not exactly a smart thing to mix.

Since he was high on anger and hate most of the time I think cocaine would be superfluous.

237 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:54:48pm

re: #229 stabby

It teaches that responsibility isn’t the same thing as taking the easiest path.

No, what it teaches is that responsibility is expensive and just leaves you open to charges of being incompetent, so shirk it whenever possible so that others take the blame for you.

238 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:57:43pm

Family Research Council: LGBT people already have enough rights

“We as social conservatives do not agree with the president’s attempt to link the modern homosexual movement with the women’s rights movement or the civil rights movement for African Americans,” Sprigg insisted. “The irony is that homosexuals already have all the same civil rights as anyone else.”

He continued: “But the fact that all people are created equal as individuals does not mean that all sexual behavior is equal or that personal relationships have an equal value to society at large, that serve the same public interests.”

239 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:58:31pm

re: #235 dragonath

Haha, it’s all your fault, iossarian.

It’s the dark side of American libertarianism/exceptionalism. Because people feel that they should always get a “fair deal” (by which they mean no-one else should be getting a deal that could possibly be interpreted as being better than theirs), institutions have to basically come up with iron laws, no exceptions, for everything. Because otherwise you get sued. As is happening in this case.

I’m exaggerating (a little) but having lived in Europe as well, it’s quite striking that people there, although they’ll grumble to friends and colleagues if they feel they’re not getting their fair shake, will be much more accepting and less likely to lodge formal complaints. As a consequence, institutions generally have more latitude to make case-by-case judgements on situations as they arise.

240 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:58:42pm

re: #234 iossarian

Oh yes. My school district, which is currently debating whether to keep libraries open for half days only or for three full days a week

yes we need to fund schools a lot better. I feel for you.

Or, people could accept that sometimes you get a slightly bum deal.

You’re still defending a cowardly lack of decision that actually posed no risk. That school made itself a laughing stock to its students and to us. And by extension they made YOUR school a laughing stock, and they made YOU a laughing stock.

These things make it impossible for students to have any respect for you or your school or take your word for anything. You lose your credibility and you can’t get it back with everyone.

Two day suspension! It’s not exactly the end of the world. And you get to explain to kids that it’s never OK to shoot someone, even if it’s for pretend.

And that’s SO stupid. Never OK to shoot bubbles? God, you take all of the fun out of life. You’re teaching kids to be assholes.

And you’ll lose the respect of even 7 year olds if they’re intelligent enough. And some of the rest of them will learn to be dogmatic assholes like you which is a lot worse.

241 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 12:59:39pm

Update from Houston: One of the person’s hospitalized actually had a heart attack and was not shot. The shooter that fled turned himself in.

242 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:00:02pm

re: #235 dragonath

If the curriculum is bureaucratic cowardice, then nothing good comes of that.

Maybe what you get from that is drop outs because they never respected you.

243 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:00:05pm

That sound you hear is the OUTRAGE from the anti-gay bigots:

Same-sex marriage bill heads to full RI House

Legislation to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry in Rhode Island is heading to a debate and vote in the state House of Representatives.

A House committee voted unanimously Tuesday to forward the legislation to the full House, which is expected to consider it on Thursday.

Advocates for same-sex marriage say they expect the bill to pass the House but they’re less confident about its chances in the Senate. Same-sex marriage legislation has been introduced in Rhode Island for years, but has never made it a vote in either legislative chamber.

Two years ago, lawmakers approved civil unions for same-sex couples after it became apparent gay marriage would not pass the Senate.

Nine states and Washington, D.C., allow same-sex marriage. Rhode Island is the only New England state without same-sex marriage.

244 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:00:12pm

re: #236 Romantic Heretic

Since he was high on anger and hate most of the time I think cocaine would be superfluous.

A dramatic interpretation of the Rise and Fall of Andrew Breitbart

245 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:00:19pm

re: #238 Kragar

Family Research Council: LGBT people already have enough rights

They will never get their head around the concept that our rights are limited only at the point that they begin to interfere with others’ ability to excercise their rights.

I cannot see how homosexuality or gay marriage begins to interfere with any other person’s rights.

But these people see it as immoral and believe that whatever is immoral must also be illegal.

ANd that allows them to engage in some awesome feats of rationalization.

246 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:02:20pm

Testing…

247 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:02:21pm

re: #244 Kragar

A dramatic interpretation of the Rise and Fall of Andrew Breitbart

[Embedded content]

Mad Max was actually on TV last night. Hadn’t seen it in probably 10+ years. Not nearly as good as I remembered……

248 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:02:38pm

It’s cute how he thinks that the GOP gives a damn about minority votes.

The only thing they care about is gerrymandering themselves into safety and rigging elections so they still matter nationally.

249 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:03:06pm

How about if our schools taught by example that the adult world can work, can be reasonable. How about if we teach children that adults can be competent. Imagine if our schools just did what works the best.

250 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:03:33pm

re: #242 stabby

If the curriculum is bureaucratic cowardice, then nothing good comes of that.

Maybe what you get from that is drop outs because they never respected you.

Dude, you need to come off of personally blaming every teacher in the last 10 years who had to do what was required of them in their job. Students aren’t dumbasses, either.

251 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:04:19pm

re: #247 Dr. Matt

Mad Max was actually on TV last night. Hadn’t seen it in probably 10+ years. Not nearly as good as I remembered……

Went thru that feeling the other day.

The thing to remember about a really awesome 15 year old game is that the game is 15 years old.

“Just… why won’t he go… but I clicked… FUCK!”

252 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:04:52pm

re: #243 Lidane

That sound you hear is the OUTRAGE from the anti-gay bigots:

Same-sex marriage bill heads to full RI House

Chaffee will sign that into law. If I recall correctly, he was the first prominent Republican to come out in favor of gay marriage even before Cheney did. Anyhow, totally expect their to be a lot of noise opposition to this given that RI is heavily Catholic but this will pass and life will go on and we won’t turn into a nation without morals.

253 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:05:12pm

re: #249 stabby

How about if our schools taught by example that the adult world can work, can be reasonable. How about if we teach children that adults can be competent. Imagine if our schools just did what works the best.

We (my institution) tried that, in a pretty famous case.

We got taken to court and lost. Because of the lawyers, and people’s unwillingness to accept that our reasonable decisions were, in fact, reasonable.

So, that’s why.

254 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:05:39pm

re: #218 stabby

3) paying money to keep lawyers on retainerre: #234 iossarian

should totally hire some hotshot lawyers so that they can then spend some extra time debating each minor disciplinary case before reaching a sensitive and balanced decision.

I’ve had dealings with school systems from Massachusetts to New Hampshire to Maine to North Carolina to Georgia and each and every one of them have lawyers on staff (either the citys or counts school admin offices)

255 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:05:49pm

re: #251 Kragar

Went thru that feeling the other day.

The thing to remember about a really awesome game 15 year old game is that the game is 15 years old.

“Just… why won’t he go… but I clicked… FUCK!”

Yeah I played Metal Gear Solid for the PSX recently and totally forgot that you don’t use the analog to move. Same thing with Silent Hill.

256 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:06:27pm

re: #253 iossarian

Tell us about that.

257 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:07:15pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

[…] school systems from Massachusetts to New Hampshire to Maine to North Carolina to Georgia and each and every one of them have lawyers on staff (either the citys or counts school admin offices)

True, although I think the idea was to hire more lawyers, which I am in general opposed to.

258 Kragar  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:07:28pm

re: #255 HappyWarrior

Yeah I played Metal Gear Solid for the PSX recently and totally forgot that you don’t use the analog to move. Same thing with Silent Hill.

Got the Enhanced Baldur’s Gate. I played it for about an hour before I got fed up with it. When it came out in 98, played it multiple times for days on end.

259 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:08:32pm

re: #239 iossarian

It’s the dark side of American libertarianism/exceptionalism. Because people feel that they should always get a “fair deal” (by which they mean no-one else should be getting a deal that could possibly be interpreted as being better than theirs), institutions have to basically come up with iron laws, no exceptions, for everything. Because otherwise you get sued. As is happening in this case.

I’m exaggerating (a little) but having lived in Europe as well, it’s quite striking that people there, although they’ll grumble to friends and colleagues if they feel they’re not getting their fair shake, will be much more accepting and less likely to lodge formal complaints. As a consequence, institutions generally have more latitude to make case-by-case judgements on situations as they arise.

I grew up in Canada. Canadians don’t get angry the way Americans do.

Americans seem a bit… nuts.

In Canada we switched from the British version of the Imperial system to the Metric system when I was a child. No big snags.

That can’t happen here.

I can’t explain it.

260 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:08:50pm

re: #258 Kragar

Got the Enhanced Baldur’s Gate. I played it for about an hour before I got fed up with it. When it came out in 98, played it multiple times for days on end.

It’s funny how things change. I’ve kept a lot of my old game data though for posterity’s sake.

261 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:09:05pm

All right - got the new embedded tweet code sorted out. Reload the page and they’ll work again.

Here’s a post at Twitter Developers that explains what’s new:

[Link: dev.twitter.com…]

262 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:10:37pm

re: #256 stabby

Tell us about that.

There’s not much to tell. We came up with a way of making certain administrative decisions that would affect some students differently than others, on a case-by-case basis. Very thoughtfully implemented.

So, inevitably, we got taken to court by Bobby McRich, because it was so very unfair to him.

Thus, henceforth, nice simple rules that require no thinking about how to implement them.

263 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:10:59pm

Charles, for some reason the twitter code always made Opera on Android lock up for minutes on end, refusing to scroll.

I’ll let you know if that gets better.

For now I’m stuck using Firefox on Android, but it isn’t as good because it lacks the “text never wraps to a larger area than the screen” feature that’s so great on phones.

264 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:11:43pm

re: #262 iossarian

There’s not much to tell. We came up with a way of making certain administrative decisions that would affect some students differently than others, on a case-by-case basis. Very thoughtfully implemented.

So, inevitably, we got taken to court by Bobby McRich, because it was so very unfair to him.

Thus, henceforth, nice simple rules that require no thinking about how to implement them.

Speaking of which, I have to go and implement some of said rules now. Laters all.

265 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:12:02pm

re: #262 iossarian

You should at least tell us what sort of decisions or give us a real name instead of “McRich” so we can look it up ourselves.

266 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:12:25pm

re: #249 stabby

That CNS site is a link that is frowned upon… Just FYI. Same guys as Newsbusters etc. Wiki link

267 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:12:51pm

re: #259 stabby

It’s called less people, and less special interest groups.

Changing the culture isn’t easy, or popular, but it cannot be done piecemeal or arbitrarily.

268 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:14:01pm

re: #265 stabby

You should at least tell us what sort of decisions or give us a real name instead of “McRich” so we can look it up ourselves.

I’m not keen to give you the exact ref because it will very obviously reveal where I work*. Suffice to say if you worked in higher ed (or were generally interested in higher ed issues) you would by now know to 90% certainty what I’m talking about.

* Still conflicted on the internet anonymity thing.

269 iossarian  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:14:23pm

BBL for real now.

270 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:14:27pm

re: #267 dragonath

Unless angry assholes on talk radio are “a special interest group” and a whole society based on elevating their behavior as a template for piety, then I don’t think you quite have it.

271 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:15:23pm

re: #268 iossarian

The other option I gave was to tell us what sort of decisions you meant.

272 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:15:47pm

re: #249 stabby

How about if our schools taught by example that the adult world can work, can be reasonable. How about if we teach children that adults can be competent. Imagine if our schools just did what works the best.

That sounds like a really nice platitude, dude.

Now how do we go about doing that?

273 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:18:32pm

re: #272 Obdicut

Apparently it takes funding our schools well enough to pay for expensive insurance…
Or changing our parental culture…
Or indemnifying schools against suit…

It also requires being less frightened of civil suits, and having a culture of backing our teachers, schools and administrators up when challenged.

After all if you sue and lose don’t you owe court costs?

274 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:20:44pm

re: #273 stabby

Yeah. So since it requires a fuckload of change, how about you not flipping out and deciding zero-tolerance rules are the cause and the big problem and not a symptomatic result of a system at large?

Being ‘less frightened’ of civil suits is stupid if those civil suits actually cost shitloads of money.

After all if you sue and lose don’t you owe court costs?

Sometimes. Doesn’t really matter when court cases can carry on for long periods of time.

275 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:22:48pm

I think it’s also important to note that the account of the bubble gun incident that we have is purely from the parents’ lawyer and not at all unbiased.

The school district has said that the facts aren’t entirely as presented by that lawyer.

276 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:23:01pm

re: #273 stabby

Apparently it takes funding our schools well enough to pay for expensive insurance…
Or changing our parental culture…
Or indemnifying schools against suit…

It also requires being less frightened of civil suits, and having a culture of backing our teachers, schools and administrators up when challenged.

After all if you sue and lose don’t you owe court costs?

This seems about as sure a set of ideas as chanting ‘tort reform’ at health care problems, and about as well defined. ‘Changing our parental culture’, indeed,

What ideas did you reject from being thrown at the wall?

277 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:23:08pm

re: #273 stabby

Look at it this way, dude. You want the schools protecting students rights to free expression and other stuff right up to the line. The problem with doing that is, by taking things up to the line, you are going to get a certain number of court cases ruled against you. Until we budget for that, asking our schools to do that is silly.

278 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:23:21pm

re: #274 Obdicut

I already said that they’re a symptom of a bigger problem here:

re: #215 stabby

Look iossarian, Targetpractice and sattv4u2 this matters because the principle applies to much more important bad decisions that our schools have made in response to the same kind of pressure.

Our school have compromised deeply on how their treat our children and on how teachers can teach.

EVERY decision made in the face of cowardly fear of lawsuits was an over-the-top draconian mistake. EVERY one of the compromised what a school should be.

279 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:23:22pm

We have a lot of people who do not understand what rules are supposed to do, they just memorize the letter of them them and then set out to apply them wherever they find it useful towards promoting their careers.

This poor little girl with her bubble gun most likely got caught up in one of those situations.

280 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:24:46pm

re: #278 stabby

Yeah, but you’re still arguing ‘principle’ and flipping out with ALL CAPS words.

EVERY decision made in the face of cowardly fear of lawsuits was an over-the-top draconian mistake.

It’s not cowardly. They don’t have the budget for it. What don’t you get about this?

281 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:25:24pm

re: #274 Obdicut

[I said that the loser picks up court costs]
Sometimes. Doesn’t really matter when court cases can carry on for long periods of time.

Actually court cases dragging on don’t have to be a problem if the government has a policy of picking up the tab to defend schools. That would be deep pockets.

282 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:25:57pm

re: #280 Obdicut

It’s not cowardly. They don’t have the budget for it. What don’t you get about this?

They shouldn’t have the budget for it. The last thing we need to spend more money on in schools is insurance.

How about, like, teachers?

283 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:26:06pm

re: #281 stabby

Actually court cases dragging on don’t have to be a problem if the government has a policy of picking up the tab to defend schools. That would be deep pockets.

… what?

Where is “the government” going to magically get this money for defending every single judgment call made by teachers?

Do you even live in the same reality as the rest of us?

284 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:26:37pm

re: #273 stabby

America can barely keep Joe Lowtax off the school board, and somehow people are going to find the wherewithal to back public schools? Christie demagogued teacher’s pensions in freakin’ New Jersey.

What you describe will take a reform movement, not combative rambling.

285 Lidane  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:27:37pm
286 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:28:17pm

It is very sad to see a formerly respected Lizard go nuclear on overweight people like they are climate change deniers, or nazis or something.

287 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:29:09pm

re: #286 Vicious Babushka

It is very sad to see a formerly respected Lizard go nuclear on overweight people like they are climate change deniers, or nazis or something.

Yes, I believe I’ve already seen you mention this.

288 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:29:29pm

re: #280 Obdicut

To the extent that tax payers and the politicians pandering to them short changed the schools they represent our culture’s irresponsibility.

To the extent that our government should have made school costs less elastic and NOT allowed important elements like this be thrown out to save money, they represent our cowardice and bureaucratic incompetence.

289 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:29:32pm

re: #286 Vicious Babushka

It is very sad to see a formerly respected Lizard go nuclear on overweight people like they are climate change deniers, or nazis or something.

Breath
Ignore
Repeat!

290 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:30:09pm

re: #283 Shvaughn

It would take a change in the regulations and in attitudes. But it would also be a good idea.

291 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:31:25pm

re: #288 stabby

Please, um, add some punctuation. I read that three or four times and honestly I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

292 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:31:34pm

re: #290 stabby

It would take a change in the regulations and in attitudes. But it would also be a good idea.

Okay, so until everyone’s attitudes magically change, what should the school districts be doing NOW regarding “zero tolerance policies”?

293 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:32:05pm

re: #282 erik_t

They shouldn’t have the budget for it. The last thing we need to spend more money on in schools is insurance.

How about, like, teachers?

Uhm they should have the money to do the best job they can without being messed with by nuts. If that requires lawyers then that requires lawyers. Just because more teachers are needed too doesn’t mean that the former isn’t also needed.

294 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #292 Shvaughn

They can start by not finding 7 year old girls with hello kitty bubble guns too much of a threat.

295 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:33:22pm

re: #293 stabby

Uhm they should have the money to do the best job they can without being messed with by nuts. If that requires lawyers then that requires lawyers. Just because more teachers are needed too doesn’t mean that the former isn’t also needed.

It sounds like your solution is similar to the NRA’s, except that instead of an armed guard in every classroom, you want a lawyer in every classroom.

296 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:33:23pm

You know, basic sanity. Less hysteria. Reason.

297 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:33:54pm

re: #293 stabby

Uhm they should have the money to do the best job they can without being messed with by nuts. If that requires lawyers then that requires lawyers. Just because more teachers are needed too doesn’t mean that the former isn’t also needed.

Adult conversations require an understanding of prioritization and the unlikelihood of getting everything one desires.

298 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:05pm

re: #294 stabby

They can start by not finding 7 year old girls with hello kitty bubble guns too much of a threat.

So you want them to ignore their zero tolerance policies?

299 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:06pm

re: #295 Shvaughn

Stupid argument. Institutions need to be able to deal with the lawsuits that their regular business invokes.

300 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:34pm

re: #295 Shvaughn

It sounds like your solution is similar to the NRA’s, except that instead of an armed guard in every classroom, you want a lawyer in every classroom.

301 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:40pm

Clinging to their guns and the bible. The tools of bullies.

302 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:41pm

re: #298 Shvaughn

I want smarter policies.

No one can really defend a policy that stupid, it isn’t even necessary to stop lawsuits.

303 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:35:04pm

re: #299 stabby

Stupid argument. Institutions need to be able to deal with the lawsuits that their regular business invokes.

They deal with them by having zero tolerance policies that don’t involve judgment calls.

304 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:35:48pm

re: #302 stabby

I want smarter policies.

No one can really defend a policy that stupid, it isn’t even necessary to stop lawsuits.

You should run for the school board.

It would be interesting to see your idealistic fervor meet real world realities.

305 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:35:52pm

re: #303 Shvaughn

Minor judgement calls aren’t that risky.

You’re all acting hysterical.

306 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:37:09pm

re: #302 stabby

No one can really defend a policy that stupid, it isn’t even necessary to stop lawsuits.

Actually, I can understand “if you talk about shooting anyone at school, you’ll be suspended, because talk of shooting people isn’t appropriate here.”

It’s like how you don’t joke about bombs in line at the airport.

307 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:37:51pm

re: #305 stabby

Minor judgement calls aren’t that risky.

You’re all acting hysterical.

All of us?

I think you need to step back and look at your own actions here.

308 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:37:56pm

re: #152 Targetpractice

Exactly. School decides kid was “just playing,” takes no action, kid comes to school next day with gun and shoots half a classroom. Now school is liable for not taking action when “warning signs” were present.

Yep, so we need to regulate the speech not the guns.

309 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:38:10pm

re: #296 stabby

You know, basic sanity. Less hysteria. Reason.

The reason you have zero tolerance policies is because you have learned that you cannot trust people in positions of authority to be able to effectively reason and exercise what one would call good judgement. So, you remove as much discretion as you can and force them to follow policy. It backfires sometimes because even a well written rule will be wrongly applied at times.

310 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:39:03pm

re: #291 erik_t

Please, um, add some punctuation. I read that three or four times and honestly I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

He could buy some commas from me!!!
/

311 Geoff with a G  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:39:06pm

re: #306 Shvaughn

Actually, I can understand “if you talk about shooting anyone at school, you’ll be suspended, because talk of shooting people isn’t appropriate here.”

It’s like how you don’t joke about bombs in line at the airport.

What would happen if a 7 year old joked about a stink bomb in line at the airport?

312 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:39:26pm

re: #305 stabby

Minor judgement calls aren’t that risky.

You’re all acting hysterical.

As opposed to your version of things which is pretty much rainbows, unicorns, and pots of gold. You’re pretty much asking for an entire system to be changed, including gobs of money going to the schools for something that doesn’t actually pertain to what the school is supposed to be doing, which is teach.

313 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:39:38pm

re: #310 sattv4u2

He could buy some commas from me!!!
/

,,,,I,,sto,,le,,,the,,,,,m,,,,,:P,,,,

314 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:40:28pm
315 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:41:24pm

There’s zero tolerance for disagreement in McStabbyWorld!

316 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:41:41pm

re: #305 stabby

Minor judgement calls aren’t that risky.

You’re all acting hysterical.

Okay buddy. Count the number of posts you’ve made on this, look at your all-caps, and look at how often you’re appealing to principle and ideals and being moralistic, and how often the people responding to you are talking about pragmatic reality.

Then maybe reassess your self-glorification.

317 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:41:47pm

re: #314 stabby

Terrorist!

terror weapon!

Uh…
HelloKitty is terrifying.

318 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:41:55pm

re: #309 Petero1818

then hire better trained, more experienced, better vetted people

319 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:42:37pm

re: #311 Geoff with a G

What would happen if a 7 year old joked about a stink bomb in line at the airport?

It gets child and accompanying adults pulled into some small rooms for intimate discussions with law enforcement. Because daddy and mommy (or uncle or whomever) may have just told little Susie it’s a stink bomb, a practical joke, when it’s actually a bit more than that.

320 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:42:41pm

re: #316 Obdicut

I always feel about the same about you.

Anyway I’ve made my argument.

You all know my side. I’m done.

321 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:42:42pm

re: #318 stabby

then hire better trained, more experienced, better vetted people

Man you’ve got a solution for everything, ima voite for you for president.

322 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:43:19pm

re: #318 stabby

then hire better trained, more experienced, better vetted people

And pay them with what?

323 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:43:58pm

My point is “there are better systems than ours”

Our system doesn’t have to be like this.

Therefor excuses for a bad system are wrong.

324 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:44:09pm

re: #322 kirkspencer

And pay them with what?

Rainbow dust.

325 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:44:29pm

re: #320 stabby

You seem like a nice guy but you get really hung up on not being able to back down, like your whole “Islam is inherently more dangerous than Christanity because they have to take it literally!” screed, which not even learning that that was an argument from Robert Spencer and the other lunatics would dissuade you from. I believe you still hold onto that amusing position.

326 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:44:46pm

re: #323 stabby

My point is “there are better systems than ours”

Our system doesn’t have to be like this.

Therefor excuses for a bad system are wrong.

I’m giggling.

327 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:45:14pm

re: #311 Geoff with a G

What would happen if a 7 year old joked about a stink bomb in line at the airport?

They’d probably be pulled out of line and questioned.

What do you think should happen?

328 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:45:18pm

re: #325 Obdicut

I don’t have to back down on any argument. You’re not a convincing person.

Live with it.

329 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:45:27pm

re: #323 stabby

Nobody’s excusing the system. People are excusing choices that are made within the context of the system, where all choices are bad because the real solution is exterior to the system— it involves more funding, or reforming the way we deal with lawsuits and schools, or mass societal change.

330 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:46:37pm

re: #329 Obdicut

Nobody’s excusing the system. People are excusing choices that are made within the context of the system, where all choices are bad because the real solution is exterior to the system— it involves more funding, or reforming the way we deal with lawsuits and schools, or mass societal change.

HYSTERIA!!!!1

331 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:46:52pm

re: #328 stabby

I don’t have to back down on any argument. You’re not a convincing person.

Live with it.

Or perhaps you’re not a convincable person. Which I’m sure you can live with.

Since we re-scratched that old itch, did you ever come up with a reason why Judaism, which also mandates that its text may not ever be changed, isn’t just as ‘bad’ in your eyes as Islam?

332 leftynyc  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:47:03pm

re: #106 stabby

The marketing of gun hysteria has worked so well that police are experiencing nationwide ammo shortages

[Link: cnsnews.com…]

Can’t you find a better source than that sewer?

333 Geoff with a G  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:47:27pm

re: #327 Shvaughn

They’d probably be pulled out of line and questioned.

What do you think should happen?

I agree they get pulled out of line. But I think if the authorities were convinced during the questioning that little Johnny was really talking about a stink bomb he’d get a lecture and sent on his way. Little Suzie in this case still gets a 2 day suspension for bubble gun talk.

334 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:47:45pm

re: #329 Obdicut

Nobody’s excusing the system. People are excusing choices that are made within the context of the system, where all choices are bad because the real solution is exterior to the system— it involves more funding, or reforming the way we deal with lawsuits and schools, or mass societal change.

Funny thing, I listed lots of those external solutions to be met with derision.

A bad system is a bad system. And it’s the fault of everyone down the line for letting it get that bad.

335 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:48:13pm

If I get downdinged by stabby, can I consider myself stabbed?

336 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:48:35pm

re: #335 dragonath

If I get downdinged by stabby, can I consider myself stabbed?

“Y” ?

337 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:49:07pm

re: #335 dragonath

Yes!

338 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:51:25pm

re: #334 stabby

Funny thing, I listed lots of those external solutions to be met with derision.

No, you weren’t. You were met with derision for thinking that because those would be solutions, that means that the way that teachers and administrators act now should change.

A bad system is a bad system. And it’s the fault of everyone down the line for letting it get that bad.

What does whose fault it is have to do with anything? You’re making an argument that zero-tolerance policies are causative. They are reinforcing, I’d agree, but they’re not causative, they came about because of lawsuits and societal pressure. Instead of arguing against the zero-tolerance policies as though they’re the cause, correctly recognize them as a symptom.

By the way, when you say you’re going to leave, actually leave, or it makes you look silly. Or at least make a reasonably good joke about how you’re sticking around.

339 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:51:29pm

re: #333 Geoff with a G

I agree they get pulled out of line. But I think if the authorities were convinced during the questioning that little Johnny was really talking about a stink bomb he’d get a lecture and sent on his way. Little Suzie in this case still gets a 2 day suspension for bubble gun talk.

You’re comparing apples and oranges, though. TSA policies aren’t the same as school policies.

(Also, we don’t know the full story, only what the parents’ lawyer has told media.)

340 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:51:57pm

re: #291 erik_t

Please, um, add some punctuation. I read that three or four times and honestly I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

Whew! I don’t even know where to begin..
Waiter! Waiter! I’ll have whatever Stabby is drinking..Hey..Are those fresh brownies at his table?
/

341 gwangung  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:54:12pm

re: #273 stabby

Apparently it takes funding our schools well enough to pay for expensive insurance…
Or changing our parental culture…
Or indemnifying schools against suit…

It also requires being less frightened of civil suits, and having a culture of backing our teachers, schools and administrators up when challenged.

After all if you sue and lose don’t you owe court costs?

Oh, dude…you REALLLLY oughta take a crash course on how things work in the real world of schools. Lack of funding and lack of personnel really hampers what schools can do.

342 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:54:57pm

re: #338 Obdicut

By the way, when you say you’re going to leave, actually leave, or it makes you look silly. Or at least make a reasonably good joke about how you’re sticking around.

By the way, fuck off.

343 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:55:04pm

re: #341 gwangung

Oh, dude…you REALLLLY oughta take a crash course on how things work in the real world of schools. Lack of funding and lack of personnel really hampers what schools can do.

Yeah but HYSTERIA and also those school admins should just STICK UP FOR WHAT’S RIGHT and blah blah blah blah

//

344 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:56:36pm

re: #342 stabby

way to raise the discourse!

345 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:57:02pm

re: #318 stabby

then hire better trained, more experienced, better vetted people

Yes, and if you paid them decent money you might actually get them. The reality is that it is my experience as a business owner you get what you pay for much of the time.

346 dragonath  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:57:04pm

re: #342 stabby

By the way, fuck off.

Well, that was pretty funny

347 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:57:09pm

re: #342 stabby

By the way, fuck off.

Chill out man.

348 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:59:00pm

re: #347 Varek Raith

Chill out man.

no..wait for it.. Let’s see where this thing is going..

349 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:59:23pm

Stabby, if anything, your little rant here is an excellent demonstration of why zero-tolerance rules exist in the first place. Instead of accepting that this kid was getting the same treatment as everyone else, you’re railing away that the school is wrong and they should change the rules to accommodate this one little girl. You even agree with the parents suing the school for not willing to back down.

Congratulations, you’ve rather nicely demonstrated just how unreasonable people can be when someone else disciplines their child.

350 Flavia  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:59:37pm

re: #18 Vicious Babushka

FYI: @BarryWirth is a parody account.

The sad thing is that I had to read about a dozen of his posts before I could figure that out for sure.

351 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:00:58pm

re: #342 stabby

By the way, fuck off.

Image: Always_Look_Bright_Side_Life.jpg

352 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:01:10pm

re: #348 HoosierHoops

no..wait for it.. Let’s see where this thing is going..

I think its going towards….”no you fuck off”

353 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:01:42pm

re: #352 Petero1818

I think its going towards….”no you fuck off”

You misspelled that. I believe it’s ‘NO U’

354 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:01:56pm

re: #351 Obdicut

I’m Brian and so is my wife!

355 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:02:29pm

re: #349 Targetpractice

sophomoric bullshit.

You’re just pretending you don’t see that “same as everyone else” does not equal reasonable, good or competent.

and you’re pretending so that you can make a personal taunt. Are you sure you’re mature enough to teach kids?

356 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:03:24pm

re: #355 stabby

sophomoric bullshit.

You’re just pretending you don’t see that “same as everyone else” does not equal reasonable, good or competent.

and you’re pretending so that you can make a personal taunt. Are you sure you’re mature enough to teach kids?

You’re off the rails now. You’re making personal attacks against everyone who disagrees with you.

357 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:04:22pm

re: #353 erik_t

Naw, I just always feel that way about Obdicut’s attitude. And people pull nasty bullshit that’s outside the channel of the argument I respond in kind. The reality is that he was rude first, he just didn’t use swear words.

And I don’t intend to talk to him more, except when a point is at stake. Him I don’t care about, the point I do.

358 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:04:50pm

re: #356 Shvaughn

I didn’t go personal first.

359 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:04:52pm

re: #355 stabby

and you’re pretending so that you can make a personal taunt. Are you sure you’re mature enough to teach kids?

How much did it hurt when the irony hit you?

360 erik_t  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:05:42pm

Protip: when one starts deploying downdings against half a dozen other posters, one should probably step back and reconsider one’s gusto.

361 stabby  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:05:45pm

Frankly I always feel that I’m being sucked into a foolish internet waste of time when i respond to Obdicut on anything

362 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:06:25pm

re: #351 Obdicut

Image: Always_Look_Bright_Side_Life.jpg

Suddenly I feel like a member of the Judean People’s Front crack suicide squad

363 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:06:42pm

re: #361 stabby

Frankly I always feel that I’m being sucked into a foolish internet waste of time when i respond to Obdicut on anything

Then stop doing it. I’m not going to stop pointing out what’s wrong with what you say, though, so I doubt you’ll actually be able to.

364 Shvaughn  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:06:52pm

re: #361 stabby

Frankly I always feel that I’m being sucked into a foolish internet waste of time when i respond to Obdicut on anything

How about then you step away from the computer and come back later? Take a walk outside and calm down.

365 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:06:53pm

re: #362 Petero1818

Suddenly I feel like a member of the Judean People’s Front crack suicide squad

Splitter!

366 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:08:28pm

re: #355 stabby

sophomoric bullshit.

You’re just pretending you don’t see that “same as everyone else” does not equal reasonable, good or competent.

and you’re pretending so that you can make a personal taunt. Are you sure you’re mature enough to teach kids?

I’m not pretending anything and I don’t teach. I’m a realist and what I realistically see is when a school can be sued for every judgment call it makes, then avoiding judgment calls is the only realistic option. Saying “Well, just put a lot of money aside for stupid parents” is not a realistic option.

367 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:09:43pm

OK.. I reached the end of the thread.. That’s a take people!
Time to Mock Ted Nugent upstairs

368 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:11:38pm

re: #366 Targetpractice

It would be a realistic option if we actually decided the following:

A) We’re going to tax to the level where we can afford that expenditure

B) The rights of children are important to us (our society really, at the moment, is fucking terrible on children’s rights)

C) We can find and hire enough competent administrators to make extremely tricky choices when it comes to stuff like free-expression vs. classroom learning and maintaining discipline on a case-by-case basis.


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