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1 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:38:03pm

The Beyoncé part is lol funny.

2 Nick Schroeder  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:43:34pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

The Beyoncé part is lol funny.

Indeed. I lost it at the first horrific inhalation.

3 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:44:21pm

How long before this is reported as fact by a RW noise machine entity?

4 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:11:39pm

Have a great Evening all!

5 William of Orange  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:31:10pm

Oh man!! Beyonce is spot on!!

6 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:35:38pm

Oh no, Balloon Juice’s DougJ got sent to the Twitter Gulag!

Will the non-partisan #TGDN come to his aid?!

7 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:42:59pm

Big fat moon outside

9 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:47:18pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Big fat moon outside

Tell them to put some damn pants on.

10 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:49:28pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Uncanny valley.

11 Jalal bin Smokin?  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:50:13pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Big fat moon outside

that reminds me of the picture I saw this morning.

Moon and ISS

12 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:53:56pm

Here’s a question.

I’m reading through the News Brief Article on Patheos (Muslim Section), and one of the Articles they linked to mentioned that 1/3 of all births in the US are by C-section.

Why is it so high?

13 calochortus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:54:31pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

It’s an ad campaign, and I really want to go to Scotland now…

14 calochortus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:56:06pm

re: #12 ProBosniaLiberal

There are a lot of reasons ranging from older mothers to fear of malpractice lawsuits. Also, they’ve gone back to the ‘once a C-section always a C-section’ thing instead of VBAC.

15 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:57:46pm

re: #12 ProBosniaLiberal

Here’s a question.

I’m reading through the News Brief Article on Patheos (Muslim Section), and one of the Articles they linked to mentioned that 1/3 of all births in the US are by C-section.

Why is it so high?

Convenience probably.

16 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:58:08pm

Winnipeg 3 - Pittsburgh 2 after two periods.

17 calochortus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:58:37pm

re: #15 allegro

Convenience probably.

More for the doctor than the patient. Probably also reimbursed at a higher rate.

18 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 6:59:39pm

Warm chocolate pudding, is there anything better than warm chocolate pudding?

I don’t think so.

Mrr

19 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:00:20pm

re: #14 calochortus

VBAC?

The article also said the rate was too damn high in more polite terms. I’m assuming the Medical Establishment is aware of that?

20 calochortus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:02:04pm

re: #19 ProBosniaLiberal

Sorry. VBAC=vaginal birth after C-section.

What the medical establishment is aware of and what individual doctors decide to do are often somewhat different.

21 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:07:16pm

re: #20 calochortus

Is there some tweak that can be done with the Medical System that would mean VB is favored over C-Section? As I understand it, C-Section has some issues with it that VB does not.

Also, how do I contact someone on Patheos? There is Blogger there that I had questions for (Issue has been gnawing at me for a week. Told CL about it.).

22 Jalal bin Smokin?  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:08:44pm

John Boehner: Ending abortion is ‘one of our most fundamental goals this year’. Laser-like focus on jobs, my ass.

23 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:09:20pm

re: #22 Old Salt

His logic is there will be jobs. For Morality Police.

24 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:10:29pm

re: #22 Old Salt

It’s not easy being Orange

25 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:10:42pm

re: #22 Old Salt

John Boehner: Ending abortion is ‘one of our most fundamental goals this year’. Laser-like focus on jobs, my ass.

Well, it’s good to know at least that the GOP don’t intend to get anything meaningful accomplished this year. Looks like they intend to spend from now until at least next November taking every chance they can to win back their base.

26 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:11:12pm

re: #23 ProBosniaLiberal

His logic is there will be jobs. For Morality Police.

Full employment for every slope-browed, knuckle-dragger in the US.

27 calochortus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:12:43pm

re: #21 ProBosniaLiberal

Is there some tweak that can be done with the Medical System that would mean VB is favored over C-Section? As I understand it, C-Section has some issues with it that VB does not.
.

I would imagine removing the financial incentive for the C-section, or just educating pregnant women about the disadvantages of C-sections (like having your abdomen cut open) would be helpful, but I’m hardly an expert in medical policy.

28 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:15:48pm

re: #26 EPR-radar

And if Saudi Arabia is anything to go by, done my violent felons.

Seriously, many of the Mutaween are former criminals. And not against their bizarre ones from a poor reading of the Quran.

29 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:18:32pm

re: #12 ProBosniaLiberal

I’m reading through the News Brief Article on Patheos (Muslim Section), and one of the Articles they linked to mentioned that 1/3 of all births in the US are by C-section.

Why is it so high?

Here’s a good discussion in a blog post from last year about that:

Cesarean Sections in the U.S.: The Trouble with Assembling Evidence from Data

The question at the heart of all this is Do obstetricians in the U.S. do too many unnecessary c-sections? Unfortunately, this question is very problematic to answer. The major impediment to drawing strong, scientific conclusions about this issue is that the majority of birthing studies are non-randomized. This leads to significant confounding of the data, and makes generalizations difficult. For instance, an obese woman (higher risk of c-section) is more likely to be inactive than a non-obese women (higher risk of c-section [29]), and is more likely to have high blood pressure and/or diabetes than a non-obese women (higher risk of c-section). She’s also at higher risk of carrying a fetus with congenital abnormalities (30), which could negatively impact fetal health and increase the risk of a c-section. An obstetrician, knowing that this woman is at higher risk of a c-section, could very naturally approach the situation expecting to end up doing a c-section (and worrying about his liability because of this high-risk patient), both of which increase the patient’s risk of having a c-section. If, in the end, the woman has a c-section, is it because she needed it, or because she had so many risk factors that it didn’t make sense to wait? After all, the odds of a good outcome in a planned c-section are better than the odds of a good outcome in an emergency c-section, and the former is only slightly riskier to the mother — and is less risky to the baby — than a planned, uncomplicated vaginal delivery. Further, calculating the risks (to either mother or baby) associated with an emergency c-section is a difficult thing; after all, a c-section wouldn’t have been done on an emergent basis if there weren’t some indication of either maternal or fetal distress. It is therefore problematic to separate morbidity and mortality associated with the root cause of the distress from morbidity and mortality attributable to the surgery.

Ultimately, the c-section rate in the U.S. is likely affected by a number of factors, but may also owe much to risk-to-benefit analysis conducted by well-intentioned obstetricians, who are interested in maximizing maternal and neonatal wellbeing. Given that there are situations in which uncomplicated vaginal delivery is less likely, and given that a planned c-section is much safer than an emergency c-section, an obstetrician with any inkling that a patient could end up needing surgical intervention might reasonably conclude that scheduled surgery is the least risky of the available routes. It’s very easy — assuming the baby was delivered successfully and the mother is well — to look back on a c-section and call it unnecessary. This assertion, however, can’t be proven; it’s possible that both mother and baby would have come through a vaginal delivery in good health, but it’s also possible that the c-section was lifesaving. After the fact, there’s no way to know. In the end, the only cesarean that we can be absolutely certain was necessary is the one that, tragically, wasn’t done in time.

30 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:20:33pm

re: #28 ProBosniaLiberal

Other accusations leveled at the CPVPV include that some of its members have been involved in political subversion, and/or are ex-convicts/prisoners who became Hafiz (i.e. memorized the Quran) to reduce their prison sentences. Author Lawrence Wright has written of a conflict between the Mutaween and at least one allied imam and Turki bin Faisal Al Saud, the head of the Department of General Intelligence (Al Mukhabarat Al A’amah) between 1977 and 2001. After an imam denounced a female charitable organizations run by some of Turki’s sisters and accused them of being “whores” during a Friday sermon, Turki demanded and received an apology. He then “secretly began monitoring members of the muttawa. He learned that many of them were ex-convicts whose only job qualification was that they had memorized the Quran in order to reduce their sentences.” But Turki believed they had become “so powerful” they “threatened to overthrow the government.”

31 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:20:38pm

A Disastrous Week for Carbon Trading

The European cap-and-trade system has slid into near meaninglessness as Germany bickers on the sidelines. Hopes that the election in Lower Saxony might resolve the high-level bickering were misguided. Now Europe’s carbon market has hit a new low.

For those involved in European Union climate policy, the German regional election in Lower Saxony on Sunday was a nail-biter. The hope for many was that Germany’s pro-business Free Democratic Party (FDP) would suffer defeat and leader Philipp Rösler, who has been under pressure within his party for weeks now, would be forced to step down as economics minister. But that didn’t happen. Instead, Rösler ended up in a stronger position than before, and the flagship project of Europe’s climate policy settled deeper into a lifeless coma.

For those interested, the “FDP” are the Free Democratic Party, who are similar to our Libertarians. The carbon market is also running up against obstacles because coal is still king in Poland.

32 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:21:57pm

re: #31 dragonath

I thought the FDP had been wrecked in recent elections.

Also, with them being Libertarians, does that mean they are needlessly smug?

34 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:23:36pm

re: #28 ProBosniaLiberal

re: #30 ProBosniaLiberal

I would expect that the scum of the earth would be over-represented in any Morality Police. Thanks for the confirmation.

35 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:24:02pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

And now, Jim Hoft, dumber than ever: The Union Is Complete - Like in All Past Tyrannies, the Media and Democrat Party Have Become One | the Gateway Pundit

Just the headline alone exceeds my daily allowed dosage of dumb.

36 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:26:17pm

re: #35 Shvaughn

The article lives up to the expectation set by its title. Apparently, Breitbart was the only person doing real journalism.

If the Onion weren’t already dead, this would be a mortal wound.

37 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:26:57pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

And now, Jim Hoft, dumber than ever: The Union Is Complete - Like in All Past Tyrannies, the Media and Democrat Party Have Become One | the Gateway Pundit

Hoft couldn’t watch the swearing-in, so he’s commenced with the swearing-at.

39 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:27:57pm

re: #34 EPR-radar

Of course, that is not even close to the biggest reason why I loath them:

It would be this:

According to at least two reports, members of the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV), also known as Mutaween, would not allow the girls to escape or to be saved from the fire because they were “not properly covered”, and the mutaween did not want physical contact to take place between the girls and the civil defense forces for fear of sexual enticement, and variously that the girls were locked in by the police, or forced back into the building. Civil Defense stated that the fire had extinguished itself before they arrived on the scene. CPVPV officers did appear to object to Civil Defense workers going into the building - Human Rights Watch quoted a Civil Defense officer as saying,

Whenever the girls got out through the main gate, these people forced them to return via another. Instead of extending a helping hand for the rescue work, they were using their hands to beat us.

Every time the President of MSA last year would try and say something supporting those indolent, ignorant, vicious sociopaths that are the Saudi Royal Family, I would bring up this, and ask if he supported the deaths of those little girls trying to escape a fire, and being forced to go back into it because they didn’t have a Hijab on.

40 b_sharp  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:28:46pm

re: #36 EPR-radar

The article lives up to the expectation set by its title. Apparently, Breitbart was the only person doing real journalism.

If the Onion weren’t already dead, this would be a mortal wound.

Hoft and Breitbart are large on assertion but teeny tiny on evidence. Conspiracy theory brains.

41 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:30:12pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

And now, Jim Hoft, dumber than ever: The Union Is Complete - Like in All Past Tyrannies, the Media and Democrat Party Have Become One | the Gateway Pundit

Only thing funnier is the second comment, from ironically named “Smarty”:

Not only must conservatives take over pieces of the MSM, more conservative talking heads must do as Levin do and get their books translated into Spanish; moreover they must get them distributed at a loss to spanish outlets and get them into bilingual libraries and spanish audio-books, here and in Mexico. Someone has to bite the bullet and do some Spanish immersion and get on Fox Mundo (El Rushbo?, El Ingraham?) and give the Spanish speaking population some firebrand Libertarian-Conservative-Tea Party firebrand politics on construction sites and during drive time. This is an urgent need.

Yeah, let’s stop ya there. You dipshits were the ones who were marching in the streets, screaming on C-SPAN, and sending concrete blocks to Congress critters as a demand for them to “Build The Wall!!” And yet, you think that Latinos don’t see you for the racist bastards you are?

42 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:31:06pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

The James O’Keefe/Alex Jones convergence.

For the sake of all that’s good in the world, Make It Stop!

43 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:31:42pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

The James O’Keefe/Alex Jones convergence.

Someone found himself a new sugar daddy.

44 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:32:46pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

The James O’Keefe/Alex Jones convergence.

Jimmy just hasn’t had the sort of following since Andy died. No wonder they keep invoking his name, the man was the only thing keeping that joke of a site relevant.

45 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:33:30pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

The James O’Keefe/Alex Jones convergence.

“it is too terrifying to contemplate, too awesome to engage”

46 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:34:12pm

re: #43 Kragar

Oh hey, it’s that guy that’s creepy with women with a criminal record.

And his Conspriacy Nut friend.

47 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:36:37pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Someone should translate Yahoo commenters and see how that’ll go over.

48 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:38:56pm

re: #39 ProBosniaLiberal

…Every time the President of MSA last year would try and say something supporting those indolent, ignorant, vicious sociopaths that are the Saudi Royal Family, I would bring up this, and ask if he supported the deaths of those little girls trying to escape a fire, and being forced to go back into it because they didn’t have a Hijab on.

BTW, I got a page not found error from that link, so I’ve removed it from the quote.

I don’t see why anyone who is not a member of the Saudi Royal family, or on their payroll, would support them. The Saudi support for the most backward and dangerous elements of Islam is a problem. The excesses of the Saudi morality police make that perfectly clear.

49 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:39:31pm

re: #46 ProBosniaLiberal

Oh hey, it’s that guy that’s creepy with women with a criminal record.

And his Conspriacy Nut friend.

Alex is getting paunchy and bald. And he looks fifteen years older than he is. He’s 38 years old. Does hate and teh crazy cause premature aging?

Discuss!

50 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:42:01pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

BTW, I got a page not found error from that link, so I’ve removed it from the quote.

I don’t see why anyone who is not a member of the Saudi Royal family, or on their payroll, would support them. The Saudi support for the most backward and dangerous elements of Islam is a problem. The excesses of the Saudi morality police make that perfectly clear.

Why shouldn’t they support them? The Salafist status quo keeps them in power.

51 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:42:02pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

The James O’Keefe/Alex Jones convergence.

Two ASSteroids collide.

52 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:43:48pm

re: #49 austin_blue

Only 38? Amazing.

53 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:45:33pm

Never ceases to amaze me how the right wing that embraced the Patriot Act, secret CIA renditions, Gitmo, military tribunals, waterboarding, FISA, activist group surveillance, etc, is talking about tyranny. Some of which is continuing under Obama who is far from being true blue progressive. They’re delusional.

Now we see Andrew Breitbart’s golden boy, James O’Keefe on 9/11 truther and Zionist conspiracies nut, Alex Jones’s show. A couple of weeks ago Ben Shapiro tried to distance himself from Jones on Piers Morgan’s show. Give it up wingers. Alex Jones is all yours.

54 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:46:00pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

The link was to Wikipedia. I try again.

I should note his family is from the Hadhramaut. And from my little bit of research, apparently, the Saudi Royal Family, after consolidating the state after their war with Yemen in the 30’s, imported many of them to help keep the state pacified. While I do criticize the Israeli settlements in the West Bank for the same reason, the Saudis have marginalized the everyone in the nation for their own power.

Neither the Hijazi Sunnis or the Coastal Gulf Shia buy into the Wahhabis. And both have paid heavy for it.

55 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:47:40pm

re: #46 ProBosniaLiberal

Oh hey, it’s that guy that’s creepy with women with a criminal record.

And his Conspriacy Nut friend.

Which one is which again?

56 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:48:21pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

It’s not really related to what you’re talking about, but I swear I’ve read a Thor comic from the 70s, where The Hammered One goes down to Mexico, hears a bunch of bad guys speaking Spanish, and proclaims…

“Is this thy language? In sooth… I LIKE IT NOT!”

I always wondered if they translated that.

57 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:49:00pm

Comment at Hoft’s page:

Smarty commented:

Not only must conservatives take over pieces of the MSM, more conservative talking heads must do as Levin do and get their books translated into Spanish; moreover they must get them distributed at a loss to spanish outlets and get them into bilingual libraries and spanish audio-books, here and in Mexico. Someone has to bite the bullet and do some Spanish immersion and get on Fox Mundo (El Rushbo?, El Ingraham?) and give the Spanish speaking population some firebrand Libertarian-Conservative-Tea Party firebrand politics on construction sites and during drive time. This is an urgent need.

El Ingraham. El, oh, el.

58 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:49:28pm

In which George Will returns to climate change denial:

Recipe for conservative revival

The real question I have is why the WaPo is considered to be anything other than your local super-market flyer publisher. Anyone can compile words and pictures with today’s computer resources with very little effort.

The fallacy that WaPo, like many media, want to sell is that they are trying to be “fair”. In reality, what they are trying to do is sell advertising to the largest number of buyers, buyers who will only pay large fees if the readership numbers are sufficiently large.

59 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:49:39pm

Well, there you go.

Meet Alex Jones

In Austin, Jones quit football and smoking pot (“It made me paranoid”), and began consuming history: Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire; Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. “I started understanding that governments have been staging terror and dealing drugs throughout history,” he says. “The whole program was there.”

The most enduring influence, though, was a 1971 bestseller he found on his father’s bookshelf: None Dare Call It Conspiracy. Authored by Gary Allen, a spokesman for the John Birch Society, the book provided the cornerstone for New World Order conspiracies. According to None Dare, the federal income tax is nothing but a plot by a cabal of megarich “insiders” who work to suck the middle class dry and transfer its wealth to the Ford and Rockefeller foundations. As a teenager, Jones read the book twice. “It’s still the easiest-to-read primer to the New World Order,” he says.

60 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:49:56pm

re: #55 Kragar

Or are they the same….

o_O

61 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:50:19pm

re: #57 Gus

Smarty’s notion that Rush would appeal to a Latino audience is also ludicrous.

Stick with the angry white guys, Rush.

62 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:51:34pm

re: #54 ProBosniaLiberal

Thanks for the info and link. It looks like your MSA president could effectively be on the payroll of the Saudi Royals. If so, not a good influence.

63 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:53:02pm

re: #52 jaunte

Only 38? Amazing.

It is isn’t it? He’s a trust fund kid, which gave him time to be a shit stirrer in the beginning. But he’s making enough money off of his various websites and media appearances to keep slinging his hate on a full-time basis.

I’ve seen him several times around town, but I have been a very nice boy in not sending a forearm shiver into his raspy fucking throat.

He’s a pox in my City and our world.

64 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:53:33pm

re: #54 ProBosniaLiberal

I should also note that another very famous Saudi Family has the same history as this guys.

What family would that be?

The Bin Ladens.

Fortunately, the guy was incompetent at leading the group, and his views were largely ignored. He only got MSA President because no one else ran.

65 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:54:07pm

re: #58 freetoken

And George Will is supposed to be one of the intelligent ones. I should get a bird just so I could have the pleasure of using the GOP columnists as birdcage liner.

66 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:54:40pm

PJMedia is really getting worse. They’re all getting worse. We have yet to attain peak wingnut.

67 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:55:42pm

re: #66 Gus

PJMedia is really getting worse. They’re all getting worse. We have yet to attain peak wingnut.

I’m becoming more convinced that “peak wingnut” will be the day when they give up on accomplishing anything politically and decide to start the shooting war they fantasize so much about.

68 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:55:44pm

re: #65 EPR-radar

George Will stopped being relevant years ago. In his old age he’s become lazy, refused to learn or adopt new things, and simply hacks columns best categorized by their lack of innovation.

69 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:56:38pm

re: #66 Gus

PJMedia is really getting worse. They’re all getting worse. We have yet to attain peak wingnut.

How about a Clinton-Obama ticket in 2016? Obama would have better things to do than be VP, of course, but it would be legal AFAIK, and it would be guaranteed to bring about the wingularity.

70 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:58:07pm

re: #66 Gus

I don’t know if their audience is growing anymore, though.

The Eschatology of Epistemological Self Awareness, and idea cooked up by RJ Rushdoony I believe, applies here. The wingnuts are becoming more assured in their wingnut beliefs - they are heading over the edge.


Again, though, I don’t know if their numbers are now growing, at least in this country.

71 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:58:48pm

re: #62 EPR-radar

Former President.

He graduated and went back. Now the President is an American Born Muslimah. Just as the Big Imam in OKC likes.

All the Executive Officers are also women. Which I think is very good.

After me giving him enough crap in the first semester. He became quiet in the second semester.

72 Interesting Times  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:59:17pm

re: #68 freetoken

George Will stopped being relevant years ago. In his old age he’s become lazy, refused to learn or adopt new things, and simply hacks columns best categorized by their lack of innovation.

Is he not the same bow-tie-wearing, fuddy-duddy fuckwit who bemoaned an excess of bodies clad in blue jeans? His argument is irrelevant.

73 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:59:21pm

re: #64 ProBosniaLiberal

I should also note that another very famous Saudi Family has the same history as this guys.

What family would that be?

The Bin Ladens.

Fortunately, the guy was incompetent at leading the group, and his views were largely ignored. He only got MSA President because no one else ran.

The Bin Ladens? Yemenis, originally. Made nice with the Sauds and became the biggest construction contractor on the peninsula.

74 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:59:40pm

re: #70 freetoken

Not here, no. In numbers, Peak Wingnut has occurred or is about to.

75 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:59:52pm

re: #66 Gus

PJMedia is really getting worse. They’re all getting worse. We have yet to attain peak wingnut.

Have they started prepping for their White Nights yet?

76 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:00:15pm

re: #73 austin_blue

Something resembling the same story. Hell, is own family his somewhat notable in their own right.

77 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:02:22pm

re: #59 jaunte

Well, there you go.

Meet Alex Jones

In Austin, Jones quit football and smoking pot (“It made me paranoid”), and began consuming history: Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire; Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Man, Alex Jones started with the wrong Gibbons. He should have started with brother Euell’s “Stalking the Wild Asparagus” and learned about the healthy food that you can find in the wild (a.k.a. nature’s health food store) and he wouldn’t have such a pasty and puffy look behind the mic.

//

78 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:03:08pm

re: #75 Kragar

Have they started prepping for their White Nights yet?

That ain’t funny.

79 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:03:08pm

re: #69 EPR-radar

How about a Clinton-Obama ticket in 2016? Obama would have better things to do than be VP, of course, but it would be legal AFAIK, and it would be guaranteed to bring about the wingularity.

12th amendment says no one who can’t be President can be VP either. That said, the 22nd amendment only says he couldn’t be elected President again. Certainly outside the spirit of the law, but if you want to be a strict constructionist…

Also, wingularity.

80 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:04:11pm

Lance said no to my idea:

“Dancing With the Stars” Wants Lance Armstrong—Now More Than Ever

Sources confirm former professional cyclist has been asked “several times” to hit the ballroom, but he has declined.

I think it would be good for him. It helped redeem Bristol. It can do the same for Lance.

81 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:06:20pm

re: #49 austin_blue

Alex is getting paunchy and bald. And he looks fifteen years older than he is. He’s 38 years old. Does hate and teh crazy cause premature aging?

Discuss!

You keep carrying that anger, it’ll eat you up inside. - Don Henley

82 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:07:23pm

re: #49 austin_blue

Alex is getting paunchy and bald. And he looks fifteen years older than he is. He’s 38 years old. Does hate and teh crazy cause premature aging?

Discuss!

Holy shit. I just checked. I always thought he was close to 50ish.

83 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:08:13pm

re: #80 freetoken

Lance said no to my idea:

“Dancing With the Stars” Wants Lance Armstrong—Now More Than Ever

I think it would be good for him. It helped redeem Bristol. It can do the same for Lance.

Bristol Palin didn’t need much redeeming, and she was put on that show because of who her mother is. And Bristol’s wrongs are small potatoes compared with the misdeeds of Lance Armstrong. A few cha-chas doesn’t make the FBI drop a investigation into felony charges.

84 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:08:39pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

That ain’t funny.

Wasn’t meant to be.

85 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:09:55pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Well, Tom DeLay

86 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:15:27pm

Meanwhile, in Germany:

But the Catholic Church has more clout than she does. Catholic organizations run 420 hospitals through Germany, and they employ 165,000 staffers who are taught to comply with bishops, not politicians. In some rural areas, the church essentially has a monopoly because it controls kindergartens, hospitals and nursing homes. Now, even though the country’s number of churchgoers is decreasing, the influence of bishops is increasing; in 1950, both the Catholic and Protestant churches in Germany had 130,000 civilian employees (excluding ministers and members of religious orders); that number has climbed to over a million.

Good News: It’s not just the US that the Catholic Church has their fingers in.

Bad News: This sucks for Women in Germany.

87 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:15:41pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

And now, Jim Hoft, dumber than ever: The Union Is Complete - Like in All Past Tyrannies, the Media and Democrat Party Have Become One | the Gateway Pundit

OK. That’s a whole new level of fail for Dim Hoft. Even the wine I’m drinking can’t make any of that sound more coherent.

How does he manage to dress and feed himself? Inquiring minds want to know.

88 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:17:01pm

re: #87 Lidane

OK. That’s a whole new level of fail for Dim Hoft. Even the wine I’m drinking can’t make any of that sound more coherent.

How does he manage to dress and feed himself? Inquiring minds want to know.

I think Qui-Gon Jinn said it best when it comes to nimrods like Hoft: “The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

89 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:19:15pm

re: #63 austin_blue

It is isn’t it? He’s a trust fund kid, which gave him time to be a shit stirrer in the beginning. But he’s making enough money off of his various websites and media appearances to keep slinging his hate on a full-time basis.

It still amazes me that I’m a year older than he is. The guy looks 50 at least. He’s aging poorly, but what do you expect with all that stress?

I’ve seen him several times around town, but I have been a very nice boy in not sending a forearm shiver into his raspy fucking throat.

He’s a pox in my City and our world.

Yeah, I’ve managed to keep my cool when I’ve seen him.

You’re right though. It galls me that this crazy fucker somehow managed to get off the public acess TV channels. He’s an embarrassment to Texas.

90 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:21:23pm

Even though some of the more libertarian minded strategists have been urging the GOP to drop the fundamentalist social agenda, we noticed that Boehner has put abortion front and central again.

Why?

Well, all one has to do is go to the front page of the IOW GOP website and it becomes clear about what they care the most:

[Link: www.iowagop.org…]


The state level GOP in many states is now totally controlled by, and an extension of, fundamentalist Christian organizations.

Thus the GOP will continue to be first and foremost an agent for social atavism, no matter what the high priced DC consultants plea.

91 Interesting Times  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:25:23pm

re: #90 freetoken

Thus the GOP will continue to be first and foremost an agent for social atavism, no matter what the high priced DC consultants plea.

Today’s GOP = blood-curdling bastard-child of billionaires Foster Friess (“put that aspirin ‘tween your knees!”) and Charles Koch.

92 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:26:49pm

Rand Paul:

“Our nation is adrift, adrift in a wilderness where right and wrong have become subservient to a hedonism of the moment,” Paul said. “I believe our country is in need of a spiritual cleansing.”
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Aquabuddha time.

93 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:27:39pm

re: #92 jaunte

I admit that I have forgotten a good sized hunk of the story. Someone post it to remind me please?

94 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:29:22pm

re: #92 jaunte

Oh great, a “spiritual cleansing” - what joy awaits us.

95 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:31:25pm

re: #92 jaunte

Paul said. “I believe our country is in need of a spiritual cleansing.”

I think Rand Paultraficant needs a haircut first..

96 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:32:15pm

re: #94 freetoken

Oh great, a “spiritual cleansing” - what joy awaits us.

If he’s talking about an enema, I know where he can stick the hose.

97 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:32:19pm

re: #94 freetoken

Oh great, a “spiritual cleansing” - what joy awaits us.

Over thousands of years what does ‘spiritual cleaning’ mean to you?
usually not a good thing for moral

98 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:32:25pm

re: #92 jaunte

Rand Paul:

Aquabuddha time.

Unsere Nation ist hilflos, verloren in der Wildnis, wo Recht und Unrecht geworden dienstbar zu einem Hedonismus der Moment gewesen. Ich glaube, unser Land ist in der Notwendigkeit einer spirituellen Reinigung!

//

99 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:33:09pm

And from the “Shouldn’t be having a gun files.”

The teenage daughter of a Minnesota man is accusing him of a pointing an AK-47 at her because she brought home a disappointing report card.

100 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:33:46pm

What kind of spiritual cleansing? Dionysian Orgiasm? I mean 10,000 Greeks can’t be wrong.

101 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:34:20pm

I read or saw somewhere this week someone saying that Rupert Murdoch came to America with the plan of starting Fox News to destroy America by creating the breakdown between the parties. That a News station of that size shouldn’t be allowed by law to be run by a naturalized American.

I think it was a joke.

If that could be implanted in the conspiracy mind of the RWNJ it wouldn’t be the sort of thing to bring about the wingularity. Still the number of heads that might cause to explode could be pretty entertaining to watch.

102 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:35:20pm

re: #101 jhrhv

I read or saw somewhere this week someone saying that Rupert Murdoch came to America with the plan of starting Fox News to destroy America by creating the breakdown between the parties. That a News station of that size shouldn’t be allowed by law to be run by a naturalized American.

I think it was a joke.

If that could be implanted in the conspiracy mind of the RWNJ it wouldn’t be the sort of thing to bring about the wingularity. Still the number of heads that might cause to explode could be pretty entertaining to watch.

Sounds like a joke to me.

103 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:36:03pm

Beware the Oliver Cromwell wanna-bes of the GOP.

104 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:36:06pm

I think Rand Paul was blowing the dog whistle when he said spiritual cleansing, they heard “ethnic cleansing”.

105 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:38:16pm

re: #99 ProBosniaLiberal

And from the “Shouldn’t be having a gun files.”

And I’ll hazard a guess that the genes from dad’s side are a good part of the reason why she brought home a disappointing report card.

106 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:40:08pm

re: #102 Gus

I agree. It’s so dumb that I think if it got into the heads of conspiracy nuts it would really screw with their heads. A foreigner trying to wreck the country. One they have trusted…

107 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:40:26pm

re: #96 Kragar

If he’s talking about an enema, I know where he can stick the hose.

If you gave the GOP an enema, you could bury what remained in a matchbox.

108 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:40:29pm

Oh… I know what Paul’s spiritual cleansing is… a good old fashioned curb stomp.

109 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:41:29pm

re: #105 Mich-again

And I’ll hazard a guess that the genes from dad’s side are a good part of the reason why she brought home a disappointing report card.

Maybe if he spent the money on a tutor instead of assault rifles.

110 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:45:13pm

And someone at the Chicago School District is unemployed now:

Chicago Public School officials have apologized for an email typo that directed parents to a website dedicated to “explor[ing] and enrich[ing] women’s sex lives and sensuality.”

111 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:47:29pm

re: #105 Mich-again

Eh, not quite. The Gawker Article links to another, which has this bit:

The complaint states that the girl and Bartashevitch were arguing at their residence on Jan. 13 about her grades in school. She was getting two Bs in school instead of two As. He swore at the girl, who then told him she hated him, and he grabbed a recently purchased AK-47 and pointed it at her.

112 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:47:43pm

re: #106 jhrhv

I agree. It’s so dumb that I think if it got into the heads of conspiracy nuts it would really screw with their heads. A foreigner trying to wreck the country. One they have trusted…

Yeah. There was a market for something like Fox News. He saw it and took “advantage” of that gaping hole. For better or for worse. Murdoch isn’t exactly that much of a wingnut either. We have to look at the other side of his projects which include Fox Entertainment which if very liberal with shows like Glee. Then you have 20th Century Fox and their movies.

113 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:48:33pm

re: #92 jaunte

Rand Paul:

“Our nation is adrift, adrift in a wilderness where right and wrong have become subservient to a hedonism of the moment,” Paul said. “I believe our country is in need of a spiritual cleansing.”
[Link: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]…]

Says the man who thinks it’s okay to discriminate based on the color of one’s skin.

114 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:49:01pm

re: #110 ProBosniaLiberal

And someone at the Chicago School District is unemployed now:

It depends on who did it. Some political appointees in Chicago have patrons powerful enough to save them from anything short of a violent felony or ideological apostasy.

115 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:50:10pm

“Cultured human foreskin fibroblasts

Oprah.

I know, right.

116 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:50:48pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

Teacher’s Unions aren’t very powerful anymore. You really think that is the case. Unless it is a crony of the Mayor himself, likely not.

117 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:51:34pm

Actually though Jezebel’s blog is pretty anti-science about that.

118 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:51:38pm

re: #112 Gus

Yeah. There was a market for something like Fox News. He saw it and took “advantage” of that gaping hole. For better or for worse. Murdoch isn’t exactly that much of a wingnut either. We have to look at the other side of his projects which include Fox Entertainment which if very liberal with shows like Glee. Then you have 20th Century Fox and their movies.

Agreed. Fox News was going to exist —- there was a market for Father Coughlin v 2.0 that was going to be filled. The fact that Murdoch ended up owing this outfit is probably just an accident of history.

The corruption of the WSJ since being acquired by Murdoch is evidence of hard-right ideology, which is different from being a wing nut, I suppose.

119 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:51:45pm

re: #112 Gus

I think Fox was the home of the Simpsons for a long time too.

I just did a search “rupert murdoch destroying america” There are many sites appears that have had that meme running for a while.

120 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:52:50pm

re: #119 jhrhv

I think Fox was the home of the Simpsons for a long time too.

I just did a search “rupert murdoch destroying america” There are many sites appears that have had that meme running for a while.

Right. I drew a blank and stopped at Glee. American Dad and Family Guy is pretty out there too. :D

121 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:54:03pm

Beverly Hills, 90210… The OC.

122 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:55:02pm

re: #116 ProBosniaLiberal

Teacher’s Unions aren’t very powerful anymore. You really think that is the case. Unless it is a crony of the Mayor himself, likely not.

I know Chicago, PLL. I lived there for the first half of my life and I work there now. Believe me when I say that unless the parents know who screwed up, that person will likely survive this. If its a union member, then they’re sure to survive, since the boards that hear such cases won’t fire a worker for a goof up that did not involve children nor the breaking of the law.

123 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:55:17pm

Oh no not 90210 anything but 90210.

124 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:55:43pm

re: #121 Gus

Beverly Hills, 90210… The OC.

The OC was a favorite show of mine while it lasted.

125 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:56:11pm
126 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:56:56pm
127 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:58:11pm

re: #126 jaunte

Obama to launch immigration push in Nevada next week

Clearly planning another annihilation of the GOP.

128 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:58:39pm

re: #123 jhrhv

Oh no not 90210 anything but 90210.

Yeah, I know. I used to be a 90210 hater. I ended up watching the last year though on and off. Pretty good acting and surprisingly likeable assholes.

129 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:59:11pm
130 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:59:27pm

Anyone living in the Houston Metro or East Texas in General should go and patronize this restaurant.

A waiter who stood up for a child with Down syndrome by refusing to serve a customer who made fun of him is receiving praise from people all over the country.

Michael Garcia is being called a “hero” in his hometown of Houston — and beyond.

An employee at Laurenzo’s Restaurant, Garcia says 5-year-old Milo Castillo and his family are regulars, and he’s always happy when they show up.

“Normally when they arrive, I pick [Milo] up at the door and carry him to the table,” Garcia told Click2Houston.

But last week, another patron tried to put a damper on Milo’s visit by moving his family away from the Castillos’ table in response to what Garcia called Milo’s “little noises.”

Rather than keeping his displeasure to himself, the unidentified man made his annoyance evident by saying “Special needs children need to be special somewhere else.”

“My personal feelings took over and I told him, ‘I’m not going to be able to serve you, sir,’” Garcia recalled. “He said, ‘If you’re not going to be able to serve us, then we’ll leave.’ Then I told him, ‘How could you say that? How could you say that about a beautiful 5-year-old angel?’”

Milo’s mother Kim said Garcia’s selfless act impressed her, but she was also concerned that he might have jeopardize his job.

Happily, Laurenzo’s sided with Garcia, saying they stood by his decision.

131 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:59:46pm

re: #127 freetoken

Clearly planning another annihilation of the GOP.

Smart move by the president there. Hopefully something gets passed.

132 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:59:58pm

re: #128 Gus

I don’t think I’m ready to go there.

133 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:00:02pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

The OC was a favorite show of mine while it lasted.

I can see that. I watched a few episodes. I was probably the presence of Peter Gallagher. Added some good solid acting weight to an already talented ensemble.

134 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:00:24pm

re: #132 jhrhv

I don’t think I’m ready to go there.

That’s cool.

135 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:00:41pm

re: #127 freetoken

Clearly planning another annihilation of the GOP.

That can be avoided, but men like senator Rubio will have to be allowed the lead to give the GOP the edge it’ll need. Obama’s plans can’t just be opposed with ‘No!’ but the angry must still be given an outlet for their rage.

136 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:01:08pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

I know Chicago, PLL. I lived there for the first half of my life and I work there now. Believe me when I say that unless the parents know who screwed up, that person will likely survive this. If its a union member, then they’re sure to survive, since the boards that hear such cases won’t fire a worker for a goof up that did not involve children nor the breaking of the law.

Read the email. It came from the CEO of the Public School System, Barbara Byrd Bennett. Management, administration, not a teacher’s union member. Almost certainly composed by her staff, but the responsibility is still hers.

137 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:01:56pm

re: #119 jhrhv

I think Fox was the home of the Simpsons for a long time too.

I just did a search “rupert murdoch destroying america” There are many sites appears that have had that meme running for a while.

It’s amazing that the Simpsons have been running for more than 20 years now. Sometimes I wonder if Groening is still involved in it (despite an obvious decline in quality) to keep corporate interference at a minimum.

The animation is getting sloppy though- there was an episode where they messed up a walk cycle and let it repeat like 4 times in a row.

138 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:02:16pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

Read the email. It came from the CEO of the Public School System, Barbara Byrd Bennett. Management, administration, not a teacher’s union member. Almost certainly composed by her staff, but the responsibility is still hers.

Then nothing will really happen. She’s not gonna lose her job over that.

139 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:02:28pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

Why would we want to avoid it?

140 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:02:34pm

re: #126 jaunte

I saw Newt on Wolf Blitzer earlier today basically saying he would be okay with some kind of immigration reform. Wolf asked if he would get behind Obama then since they weren’t that far apart.

Of course not. So basically we can have the same ideas but I won’t support them if they aren’t being brought forward by my party.

142 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:03:21pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

That can be avoided, but men like senator Rubio will have to be allowed the lead to give the GOP the edge it’ll need. Obama’s plans can’t just be opposed with ‘No!’ but the angry must still be given an outlet for their rage.

Putting Rubio out front is not going to fool anybody.

143 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:03:24pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Well, at least make sure she is remembered for promoting the incorrect form of Sex Ed in regards to schools.

144 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:03:34pm

re: #140 jhrhv

I saw Newt on Wolf Blitzer earlier today basically saying he would be okay with some kind of immigration reform. Wolf asked if he would get behind Obama then since they weren’t that far apart.

Of course not. So basically we can have the same ideas but I won’t support them if they aren’t being brought forward by my party.

Pretty much. See, healthcare reform.

145 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:03:49pm

re: #139 freetoken

Why would we want to avoid it?

Who’s ‘we’?

146 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:03:59pm

re: #142 Targetpractice

Putting Rubio out front is not going to fool anybody.

No kidding.

147 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:04:21pm

re: #143 ProBosniaLiberal

Well, at least make sure she is remembered for promoting the incorrect form of Sex Ed in regards to schools.

I can just about guarantee that.

148 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:05:45pm

re: #134 Gus

I really should read more, watch less tv and spend far less time online. Yet here I am. I have been doing a lot of bike riding so I’m not totally weak.

149 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:06:17pm

re: #126 jaunte

Obama to launch immigration push in Nevada next week

He should put as much into that as he did into health care reform.

150 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:06:57pm

re: #142 Targetpractice

Putting Rubio out front is not going to fool anybody.

No, it won’t. But that’s not my plan; My plan is to get behind his legal residency plan as a start and get a bill based on it through the House and introduced in the Senate. Go on offense instead of just defending, for that is the way to eat up the other side’s momentum.

151 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:08:04pm

A former pastor writes:

[…]

Evangelical power is waning, but like all authoritarian systems of belief, their death is slow and will not come overnight. We must trust we can win the battle against them in the marketplace of ideas. We must continue to demand our government live up to the secular and pluralistic ideals this country was founded upon.

We have little hope of reaching Evangelicals who have spent their life imbibing at the bar of Fundamentalism. People like me, who leave Evangelicalism after fifty years, are rare. Our focus must be on the youth of America. Rob Evangelicalism of their children and it dies. This is already happening in Evangelical groups like the Southern Baptist Convention. (the largest Protestant religious group in America)

[…]

Since the GOP is now part of American Evangelicalism, Inc. I think we just have to plug along and make progress here and there and over time, just like in previous centuries, the American polity will change.

152 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:08:57pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

That can be avoided, but men like senator Rubio will have to be allowed the lead to give the GOP the edge it’ll need. Obama’s plans can’t just be opposed with ‘No!’ but the angry must still be given an outlet for their rage.

It remains to be seen if it is possible for these angry types to express themselves in ways that don’t drive everyone else away.

Hopefully they don’t shut up, and end up getting ridden out of the party on a rail. Problem is, that won’t happen.

153 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:09:38pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

No, it won’t. But that’s not my plan; My plan is to get behind his legal residency plan as a start and get a bill based on it through the House and introduced in the Senate. Go on offense instead of just defending, for that is the way to eat up the other side’s momentum.

You DO realize there are plenty of the same hardline anti-immigrant bigots on your side who don’t think Rubio’s a legitimate citizen in the first place, right?

They’re not going to accept him as the GOP point man on immigration.

154 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:10:24pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

No, it won’t. But that’s not my plan; My plan is to get behind his legal residency plan as a start and get a bill based on it through the House and introduced in the Senate. Go on offense instead of just defending, for that is the way to eat up the other side’s momentum.

Rubio tried to get his watered-down DREAM Act through last year, and could find nobody to support him on it. He’s a joke.

155 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:12:31pm

re: #153 Lidane

You DO realize there are plenty of the same hardline anti-immigrant bigots on your side who don’t think Rubio’s a legitimate citizen in the first place, right?

They’re not going to accept him as the GOP point man on immigration.

They aren’t a majority of the party. I’m convinced enough of the party will understand the need for action to make my plan workable.

156 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:12:38pm

Rubio’s RNC speech was totally trite and beseeching. Did I mention he’s also an inveterate fundamentalist?

157 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:13:10pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

No, it won’t. But that’s not my plan; My plan is to get behind his legal residency plan as a start and get a bill based on it through the House and introduced in the Senate. Go on offense instead of just defending, for that is the way to eat up the other side’s momentum.

Proposing a tiny slice of what’s needed and what’s wanted by the constituents the Republicans are attempting to woo does not constitute going on offense.

158 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:13:43pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

Rubio tried to get his watered-down DREAM Act through last year, and could find nobody to support him on it. He’s a joke.

That’s because there’s a significant percentage in the GOP who reject anything less than shooting and/or deporting every undocmented person in this country no matter the circumstance of their arrival.

159 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:14:21pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

They aren’t a majority of the party. I’m convinced enough of the party will understand the need for action to make my plan workable.

No they won’t. Why? Because your party is beholden to the far right anti-immigrant bigots in order to keep their jobs.

160 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:14:55pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

They aren’t a majority of the party. I’m convinced enough of the party will understand the need for action to make my plan workable.

They’re not a majority of the party, they’re the majority of the base. I hate to break it to you Dark, but guys like you are the fringe in your own party these days.

161 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:16:13pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

I hate to break it to you Dark, but guys like you are the fringe in your own party these days.

Pretty much, yeah.

Anyone who isn’t a fire-breathing fundamentalist wingnut is in the minority in the GOP. Just look at the party platform they ran on in 2012. That’s what the base believes and what the party will run on.

162 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:16:23pm

Jeb Bush is my early pick for the 2016 GOP nomination. Not that I want him to run, I just think it’s his density.

163 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:16:36pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

I think an immigration reform deal is basically impossible. The GOP House would view it as a victory for Obama and the Democrats for any major legislation to pass.

If the House ends up passing anything, it will probably include sufficient poison pills to make it DOA in the Senate.

164 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:16:40pm

re: #148 jhrhv

I really should read more, watch less tv and spend far less time online. Yet here I am. I have been doing a lot of bike riding so I’m not totally weak.

I stopped watching TV maybe 10 years ago. Went through this reading phase for 2 years. Might have read close to 30 books. I’ve always read on and off. Riding was in my early 20s. Average long ride was about 75 miles easy. Crossed New Hampshire and Vermont in one day. Rained all day with a 50 pound load. 100 miles with roaring rivers, rain, and grades.

165 jaunte  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:18:06pm

re: #163 EPR-radar

I think an immigration reform deal is basically impossible. The GOP House would view it as a victory for Obama and the Democrats for any major legislation to pass.

It’s a self-actuating trap for the GOP.

166 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:18:27pm

re: #162 Mich-again

Jeb Bush is my early pick for the 2016 GOP nomination. Not that I want him to run, I just think it’s his density.

By the GOP rules of succession, Santorum will be the nominee in 2016. He’s their current front runner.

167 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:19:38pm

re: #166 Lidane

By the GOP rules of succession, Santorum will be the nominee in 2016. He’s their current front runner.

I think this is the election they change that but I can’t see it being Jeb Bush. I think 2016 may be the year when they finally get their “true conservative” and go overboard.

168 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:20:00pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

They aren’t a majority of the party. I’m convinced enough of the party will understand the need for action to make my plan workable.

Okay, go to the major right wing blogs and look at the comments. I’ll do it for you:

Hot Air

BS, reconquista is real, and McCain and Graham and all the rest know it. What politicians are doing is no different than what France did when Hitler came as an uninvited alien.

We need to let them know that they will not ever live in peace should they pass Amnesty.

We’ll be a nation of Anton Chigurhs hounding them until their end.

Has Allah sold out? I’m getting disgusted more everytime he posts on immigration. Please show your data indicating that hispanics dont vote for republicans because of their stance on immigration, as opposed to all other issues before advising conservatives to surrender yet again.

You need to visit a sanctuary city like Houston and see how well these 3rd grade educated Mestizos assimilate. You won’t be able to miss them. They’ll be the ones who have turned once nice middle class neighborhoods into trash filled barrios with the streets looking like Juarez flea markets.

169 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:20:22pm

re: #165 jaunte

It’s a self-actuating trap for the GOP.

This. Any species of the DREAM Act only accelerates the movement of Texas and Arizona into swing state status.

170 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:21:05pm

I predict though if Rubio is point man on immigration reform, he’ll lose a lot of his creds with the right wing movement. I mean look at what happened to Christie when he praised Obama for helping his state after a disaster.

171 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:22:00pm

re: #168 dragonath

Okay, go at the major right wing blogs and look at the comments. I’ll do it for you:

Hot Air

I stopped at “reconquista.”

172 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:22:28pm

re: #171 Gus

I stopped at “reconquista.”

Yeah…….yikes.

173 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:22:39pm

re: #168 dragonath

Okay, go at the major right wing blogs and look at the comments. I’ll do it for you:

Hot Air

Dayam. “Mestizos assimilate.” Whew.

174 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:23:17pm

re: #171 Gus

Interestingly, Allahpundit is for some kind of reform. But the vast majority of the commentariat isn’t having any part of it.

175 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:23:49pm

re: #166 Lidane

Santorum doesn’t meet the first rule - be part of the establishment power structure. Unlike Dole, the Bushes, McCain, and Romney, Santorum is not friends with the uber-rich and powerful. Santorum represents the religious right, which have been used by the rich and powerful as foot soldiers but who are not allowed to pick the top of the ticket.

176 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:24:51pm

re: #166 Lidane

By the GOP rules of succession, Santorum will be the nominee in 2016. He’s their current front runner.

LIVING GOD WHO WALKS THIS PLANET EARTH IN HUCKSTER’S SHOES.

177 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:24:52pm

re: #175 freetoken

Santorum doesn’t meet the first rule - be part of the establishment power structure. Unlike Dole, the Bushes, McCain, and Romney, Santorum is not friends with the uber-rich and powerful. Santorum represents the religious right, which have been used by the rich and powerful as foot soldiers but who are not allowed to pick the top of the ticket.

That’s why I think he’ll break it. He doesn’t have the corporate connections that the aforementioned do.

178 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:25:30pm

re: #164 Gus

I stopped watching TV maybe 10 years ago. Went through this reading phase for 2 years. Might have read close to 30 books. I’ve always read on and off. Riding was in my early 20s. Average long ride was about 75 miles easy. Crossed New Hampshire and Vermont in one day. Rained all day with a 50 pound load. 100 miles with roaring rivers, rain, and grades.

I threw out my tv years ago. Got married now have a 55 inch. Totally addictive. I usually read 5-10 books a year if I can find things that interest me. With the riding I used to live on the bike. Then did about 10 years on and off just short rides.

I’m currently in training to 200 Km ride to raise money for cancer research. Have raised close to $500 so far with a goal of $3200 for early June.

I think the longest ride I ever did was 160 miles. I’ll never forget that day neither will my legs. It feels great to be riding more lately. Only someone who is into cycling knows that great feeling you get.

I’ve been looking at new bikes A LOT. Started off with $2,000 limit for a new road machine. A friend sent me a link to a Lynskey frame yesterday. With all the bells and whistles over 4k. I kind of hate him now :).

179 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:26:31pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

This. Any species of the DREAM Act only accelerates the movement of Texas and Arizona into swing state status.

I have to say, I’m liking the administration’s political moves so far. Dealing with immigration provides ample opportunities for the GOP to seal its fate with Latinos for decades.

Dark is correct that the smart thing for the GOP is to get out in front of this in some reasonable way. Most unlikely to happen, and if it does, the big news for the 2014 midterms will be tea baggers eating their own.

180 Lidane  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:27:30pm

re: #176 Mich-again

LIVING GOD WHO WALKS THIS PLANET EARTH IN HUCKSTER’S SHOES.

Except that Bob openly told you his religion was bullshit. Heh.

I still have my “ordination papers” from the Church of the SubGenius. I had a good laugh when I got those.

181 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:28:41pm

re: #175 freetoken

Santorum doesn’t meet the first rule - be part of the establishment power structure. Unlike Dole, the Bushes, McCain, and Romney, Santorum is not friends with the uber-rich and powerful. Santorum represents the religious right, which have been used by the rich and powerful as foot soldiers but who are not allowed to pick the top of the ticket.

This is the basic fault line within the GOP. The religious right has been used by the GOP establishment for decades. When they finally get tired of it, the results will be interesting.

182 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:29:35pm

re: #181 EPR-radar

This is the basic fault line within the GOP. The religious right has been used by the GOP establishment for decades. When they finally get tired of it, the results will be interesting.

I wonder what it will take them to realize it.

183 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:29:57pm

re: #168 dragonath

Okay, go to the major right wing blogs and look at the comments. I’ll do it for you:

Hot Air

Ladies and gentlemen, the Republican base.

184 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:30:21pm

re: #181 EPR-radar

This is the basic fault line within the GOP. The religious right has been used by the GOP establishment for decades. When they finally get tired of it, the results will be interesting.

I suspect they got tired of it a long time ago but by then it was too late. They reaped what they done sowed.

185 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:31:00pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

I wonder what it will take them to realize it.

It could happen soon. They hated Romney, after all. There is no next in line GOP establishment candidate. That means their field is open in a way that hasn’t happened for a long time.

186 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:31:08pm

re: #184 allegro

I suspect they got tired of it a long time ago but by then it was too late. They reaped what they done sowed.

They deserve each other.

187 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:31:14pm

Here’s another thing to consider: should the Republicans proceed with the Congressional redistriction/election college tomfoolery they’ve been exploring, they might as well write off the immigrant vote forever.

For example, it’s been reported that had that redistricting plan gone into effect in Virginia for 2012, Obama would have lost the electoral vote count 9-4 despite winning the popular vote by a 51-47% margin.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think if I were an immigrant, the message I’d take from that would be your vote does not matter.

188 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:31:25pm

The GOP establishment have their men picked. Just notice who gets the media coverage and the main event at GOP gatherings.

189 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:31:40pm

re: #180 Lidane

Except that Bob openly told you his religion was bullshit. Heh.

I still have my “ordination papers” from the Church of the SubGenius. I had a good laugh when I got those.

I just think there is an uncanny resemblance between Bob and Santorum. Has anyone ever seen those two in the same room together? They could be the same person..

190 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:32:44pm

re: #178 jhrhv

I threw out my tv years ago. Got married now have a 55 inch. Totally addictive. I usually read 5-10 books a year if I can find things that interest me. With the riding I used to live on the bike. Then did about 10 years on and off just short rides.

I’m currently in training to 200 Km ride to raise money for cancer research. Have raised close to $500 so far with a goal of $3200 for early June.

I think the longest ride I ever did was 160 miles. I’ll never forget that day neither will my legs. It feels great to be riding more lately. Only someone who is into cycling knows that great feeling you get.

I’ve been looking at new bikes A LOT. Started off with $2,000 limit for a new road machine. A friend sent me a link to a Lynskey frame yesterday. With all the bells and whistles over 4k. I kind of hate him now :).

I built mine for $1200 back in 1982. Built the wheels myself. Built one more bike after that. Could spin up to 300 RPM.

191 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33:16pm

re: #178 jhrhv

I’ve been looking at new bikes A LOT. Started off with $2,000 limit for a new road machine. A friend sent me a link to a Lynskey frame yesterday. With all the bells and whistles over 4k. I kind of hate him now :).

Would that be a Ti frame & fork with Ultegra? Or Dura Ace? Or some SRAM, um, junk stuff? Or a carbon fork?

192 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33:23pm

re: #187 BongCrodny

Here’s another thing to consider: should the Republicans proceed with the Congressional redistriction/election college tomfoolery they’ve been exploring, they might as well write off the immigrant vote forever.

For example, it’s been reported that had that redistricting plan gone into effect in Virginia for 2012, Obama would have lost the electoral vote count 9-4 despite winning the popular vote by a 51-47% margin.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think if I were an immigrant, the message I’d take from that would be your vote does not matter.

Yeah, well I don’t think they care. I think they just think as long as they keep on winning the white vote and this latest rigging scheme, they’ll be fine. I tell you this much. It’s making me dislike the GOP even more than I already do.

193 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:34:18pm

re: #192 HappyWarrior

Yeah, well I don’t think they care. I think they just think as long as they keep on winning the white vote and this latest rigging scheme, they’ll be fine. I tell you this much. It’s making me dislike the GOP even more than I already do.

Same here, and that is getting mighty hard to do.

194 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:34:22pm

One of the most blatantly false comments over at Hot Air:

When you get in bed with the left, you will be destroyed. Ask the black people. They were 12% of the population in 2000, 11% in 2010. Their demographic collapse is coming sooner than later.

In the latest census, black americans were 12.6% of the population, a 12% increase over 2000.

Fixating on a demographic collapse is just creepy, but hey, it’s the base.

195 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:35:00pm

re: #190 Gus

Could spin up to 300 RPM.

Now wait a minute…

196 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:35:21pm

re: #193 EPR-radar

Same here, and that is getting mighty hard to do.

I know right? I mean damn. This latest scheme is “Hey, fuck you Northern Virginia, we don’t like that you’re voting Democrats for president so we’re going to make your vote meaningless essentially.”

197 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:35:33pm

re: #194 dragonath

One of the most blatantly false comments over at Hot Air:

In the latest census, black americans were 12.6% of the population, a 12% increase over 2000.

Fixating on a demographic collapse is just creepy, but hey, it’s the base.

QFT. You know you are dealing with a bug-eyed racist the moment the nattering about “white minority” starts.

198 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:35:37pm

re: #188 freetoken

I say vote for the guy who has a fly land on his face.
/

199 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:37:03pm

re: #195 wrenchwench

Now wait a minute…

Anaerobically.

200 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:37:24pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I know right? I mean damn. This latest scheme is “Hey, fuck you Northern Virginia, we don’t like that you’re voting Democrats for president so we’re going to make your vote meaningless essentially.”

The correct short term response to this is for people to vote D at the state level if they are D voters for president.

Long term, National Popular Vote. The electoral college has outlived its usefulness.

201 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:37:30pm

re: #191 wrenchwench

Yes Ti with Ultegra and carbon forks. Disc brakes. Dream machine.

202 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:37:31pm

re: #187 BongCrodny

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think if I were an immigrant, the message I’d take from that would be your vote does not matter.

I truly believe that’s what’s going on in Texas. I live in the blue city of Houston and I know for a certainty that a lot of Democrats/left-leaners don’t even bother to vote because they think their votes are worthless. If we could really get out the vote in Texas, in spite of the gerrymandering, I believe the state would be bright blue. Getting past the perceptions has been a hard, hard thing to do.

203 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:37:48pm

re: #194 dragonath

The entire Salem Communications empire - and that includes HotAir and Townhall and lots of other websites, many radio stations, TV, etc - is built around the fundamentalist Christian and “southern strategy” Republicanism of its two owners.

The entire empire.

Though dwarfed in income by the Murdoch empire, the Salem empire is much more ideological.

You should never expect enlightenment at those sites which cater to reinforcing the bigotry of their owners.

204 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:38:22pm

re: #199 Gus

Anaerobically.

For about 10 seconds?

You know if you put the magnet on just right, it reads double.

205 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:38:30pm

re: #194 dragonath

One of the most blatantly false comments over at Hot Air:

In the latest census, black americans were 12.6% of the population, a 12% increase over 2000.

Fixating on a demographic collapse is just creepy, but hey, it’s the base.

It jibes with the wingnut belief that legal abortion is causing a “black genocide.”

206 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:39:06pm

re: #202 allegro

I truly believe that’s what’s going on in Texas. I live in the blue city of Houston and I know for a certainty that a lot of Democrats/left-leaners don’t even bother to vote because they think their votes are worthless. If we could really get out the vote in Texas, in spite of the gerrymandering, I believe the state would be bright blue. Getting past the perceptions has been a hard, hard thing to do.

If the Republicans lose Texas, they’re done. I think they anticipate losing it sometime over the next three-four elections which is why they’re proposing these schemes so they have an ace in the hole.

207 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:39:37pm

re: #204 wrenchwench

For about 10 seconds?

You know if you put the magnet on just right, it reads double.

2 minutes. Stationary. Clipped in while listening to Temple University radio.

208 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:39:57pm

re: #201 jhrhv

Yes Ti with Ultegra and carbon forks. Disc brakes. Dream machine.

Look at full carbon, with rim brakes. If it’s cheaper, go that way, you’ll be just as happy.

209 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:40:48pm

re: #180 Lidane

Except that Bob openly told you his religion was bullshit. Heh.

I still have my “ordination papers” from the Church of the SubGenius. I had a good laugh when I got those.

Bob Dobbs! The Sultan of Slack!

You go, homegirl.

And to all Lizards, sweet scaly dreams. It’s been an interesting thread tonight.

210 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:41:14pm

My favorite phrase from the NYT article about Saxby Chambliss announcing his retirement..

The competing schools of thought illustrate the conflicting currents pulling the Republican Party in opposite directions

Faster please.

211 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:41:34pm

re: #190 Gus

300 RPM I think I’m doing something like 80. I haven’t had a computer on my bike since probably the 90’s.

Now I just ride until I’m about ready to fall off and there is a pool of my sweat, blood, teeth etc on the floor under me.

212 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:41:43pm

re: #207 Gus

2 minutes. Stationary. Clipped in while listening to Temple University radio.

Oh, wellllll — you didn’t tell me you were listening to Temple University radio! Now it makes sense.

213 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:44:23pm

re: #206 HappyWarrior

If the Republicans lose Texas, they’re done. I think they anticipate losing it sometime over the next three-four elections which is why they’re proposing these schemes so they have an ace in the hole.

Heck some there are proposing secession. Little do they know there are budget hawks in DC drawing up plans to sell Texas to Mexico and Alaska to Canada to help solve the budget woes.

OK I just made that up.. Its still a FNDT right?

214 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:45:30pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

Look at full carbon, with rim brakes. If it’s cheaper, go that way, you’ll be just as happy.

Is it just me or are Campy groupsets looking comparatively affordable again?

215 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:46:22pm

re: #213 Mich-again

Heck some there are proposing secession. Little do they know there are budget hawks in DC drawing up plans to sell Texas to Mexico and Alaska to Canada to help solve the budget woes.

OK I just made that up.. Its still a FNDT right?

Ha, yeah it’s all so insane. I am just hoping for a huge backlash against the Republicans and their crap in 2014.

216 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:47:07pm

Only thing funnier than the idea of the GOP getting “out in front” on immigration reform is that Rubio, a Cubano who got in deep shit when it came out that he lied about his origin story, is going to be seen by Latinos as some sort of proof that the GOP is serious about winning them over.

217 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:47:46pm

re: #203 freetoken

I’m (unfortunately) aware of Salem, and what they do, but you can go to the Washington Post and even Rubin’s commenters are all about “surrender to liberals”. The whole party is fundamentally whacked.

218 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:48:58pm

re: #217 dragonath

I’m (unfortunately) aware of Salem, and what they do, but you can go to the Washington Post and even Rubin’s commenters are all about “surrender to liberals”. The whole party is fundamentally whacked.

It is altogether possible that a significant fraction of the sane Republicans in the US are reading this thread right now.

219 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:49:42pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

I really don’t know what to do. There are carbon frames from China. You can put yourself on something that is probably comparable to a 8k bike for 2-3k if you go that way.

Cannondale supersix 3 ultegra with a lifetime frame warranty for 4k with a pro fit.

Now I’ve got Lynskey on the brain. There are also used bikes. When you buy used high end people take care of them so you could find a good deal that way. Part of me says fix up my 20 year old road bike with Shimano 600 and ride that.

With the Ti bike I’m thinking if I cut the corners to save $600 and not get disc am I going to be sorry a year later?

Was so much easier when I just hung around the bike shop and bought what Mark told me to get.

220 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:49:48pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

Is it just me or are Campy groupsets looking comparatively affordable again?

Oh, yeah, Campy. I think they’re struggling to compete. If you’re trying to do it on a budget, Campy replacement parts are still pretty steep. Maybe at the top they’re more competitive. Sadly, I’m not very in touch with that market.

I think Shimano works the best. I tried to give SRAM a chance. And Campy is good, but Shimano has the engineering down when it comes to the drive train.

221 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:52:40pm

re: #220 wrenchwench

Wow, my blue Huffy really doesn’t rate, does it.

222 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:52:55pm

Just found out our bedroom window had been leaking water for the last couple hours. Fuck.

223 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:53:18pm

re: #220 wrenchwench

Oh, yeah, Campy. I think they’re struggling to compete. If you’re trying to do it on a budget, Campy replacement parts are still pretty steep. Maybe at the top they’re more competitive. Sadly, I’m not very in touch with that market.

I think Shimano works the best. I tried to give SRAM a chance. And Campy is good, but Shimano has the engineering down when it comes to the drive train.

Campy. 3K for set. Stop and catch a breather with a snifter of brandy. Rider!

224 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:54:03pm

re: #222 Kragar

It’s been raining here all day - are you sure it didn’t start earlier? Heavier but spotty showers tonight.

225 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:54:12pm

re: #219 jhrhv

I really don’t know what to do. There are carbon frames from China. You can put yourself on something that is probably comparable to a 8k bike for 2-3k if you go that way.

Cannondale supersix 3 ultegra with a lifetime frame warranty for 4k with a pro fit.

Now I’ve got Lynskey on the brain. There are also used bikes. When you buy used high end people take care of them so you could find a good deal that way. Part of me says fix up my 20 year old road bike with Shimano 600 and ride that.

With the Ti bike I’m thinking if I cut the corners to save $600 and not get disc am I going to be sorry a year later?

Was so much easier when I just hung around the bike shop and bought what Mark told me to get.

Cannondales are made in China. Everything (almost) is made in China. Chinese carbon frames are OK. Fit is the main thing. Don’t do a 20 year old bike. That’s like doing a ten year old computer. Better to get a used 5 year old bike, except I don’t like used carbon.

If you weigh more than 200 lbs., you might regret not getting disc brakes. Otherwise, I don’t think you would.

226 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:54:53pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I hardly see anyone selling Campy. Everything is SRAM, and Shimano. I think part of it is just that Campy has that high price tag background but I’m not sure.

I did see the Campy 50th anniversary selling for over 3k. Maybe I’m not seeing them so much because I’m not looking at 12k bikes. YET. hahaha I made me laugh.

227 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:55:32pm

re: #221 allegro

Wow, my blue Huffy really doesn’t rate, does it.

All depends what you want to do with it. If you want to keep up with Gus, you might need to upgrade.

228 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:56:22pm

re: #224 freetoken

It’s been raining here all day - are you sure it didn’t start earlier? Heavier but spotty showers tonight.

It doesn’t seem as soaked as it should be if it had been leaking all day. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t leaking this morning.

229 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:56:33pm
230 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:56:51pm

re: #227 wrenchwench

All depends what you want to do with it. If you want to keep up with Gus, you might need to upgrade.

Naw, I’m old and live on flat ground. I just like to pedal around the neighborhood and visit the squirrels, pooties and woozies.

231 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:57:38pm

re: #219 jhrhv

Was so much easier when I just hung around the bike shop and bought what Mark told me to get.

Having a buddy at the bike shop is never a bad idea.

232 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:57:49pm

re: #225 wrenchwench

A friend trying to explain to my wife why I need to spend 4k on bike instead of using my old machine said it’s like comparing driving an 87 Honda to a 2012 Cadillac.

She has been really cool about it since she spoke with him.

233 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:58:15pm

Of course, its not considered an emergency and it happens on a Friday night, so I won’t be able to get a maintenance guy to come and look at it till Monday.

God damn it.

234 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:59:13pm

re: #230 allegro

Naw, I’m old and live on flat ground. I just like to pedal around the neighborhood and visit the squirrels, pooties and woozies.

Just keep air in the tires and you’re fine.

235 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:00:44pm

re: #203 freetoken

BTW, Salem first showed up on my radar when I was scanning the FM dial and I came across the “Beware the Green Dragon” anti-environmentalist movement, or whatever it was called. The station used to be one an ostensibly middle of the road “Christian Rock” stations that were popular in the 90s. You know the type- the kind that proliferated along with the “contemporary” worship scene.

James Herriot, they ain’t.

236 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:01:16pm

re: #234 wrenchwench

Just keep air in the tires and you’re fine.

:) I have 5 gears and don’t know what the other 4 are for. I love my blue Huffy.

237 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:01:48pm

re: #232 jhrhv

A friend trying to explain to my wife why I need to spend 4k on bike instead of using my old machine said it’s like comparing driving an 87 Honda to a 2012 Cadillac.

She has been really cool about it since she spoke with him.

The old machines are still rideable, but when somebody gets a modern, lightweight bike they’re always sorry they didn’t do it sooner.

238 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:02:37pm

re: #225 wrenchwench

OTOH I have a 1980ish Schwinn Hevi-Duti Paper route bike with spokes the size of #2 pencils, chrome fenders, a big comfortable seat, one speed, and no hand brakes. What more does anyone need to putz around the neighborhood?

239 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:06:13pm

re: #235 dragonath

Agreed that these anti-environmentalists tend to be dim bulbs. The limit of their thought tends to be something like “Q: How is a watermelon like an environmentalist? A: Green on the outside, red on the inside.” Herpity derp.

240 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:07:34pm

re: #237 wrenchwench

From what I’ve read new bikes are very different from old. My current new bike is my 15 year old aluminum MTB. Front suspension only. Love it very comfortable.

From some of what I’ve read I’m wondering if its going to be easier to ride these new machines. Something I read said it’s almost like youre not peddling.

To be honest if it is really easy I don’t think I’ll like it.

241 Kragar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:10:58pm

Got some towels down and a bucket to collect the water now. Luckily, I got to it before my books or anything else beside the carpet right by the leak got wet. Hope the rain lets up soon.

242 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:13:09pm

re: #241 Kragar

Good luck with that. In college housing, I once had a leaky window right above an electrical outlet. Woke up one morning to a small explosion as the outlet shorted out.

243 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:14:23pm

re: #238 Mich-again

OTOH I have a 1980ish Schwinn Hevi-Duti Paper route bike with spokes the size of #2 pencils, chrome fenders, a big comfortable seat, one speed, and no hand brakes. What more does anyone need to putz around the neighborhood?

re: #240 jhrhv

From what I’ve read new bikes are very different from old. My current new bike is my 15 year old aluminum MTB. Front suspension only. Love it very comfortable.

From some of what I’ve read I’m wondering if its going to be easier to ride these new machines. Something I read said it’s almost like youre not peddling.

To be honest if it is really easy I don’t think I’ll like it.

Where I live it’s all hills, and not enough oxygen. I need lots of gears. Lighter weight matters on hills.

If you don’t need to accelerate and decelerate very often, it matters less.

245 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:15:44pm

re: #243 wrenchwench

re: #240 jhrhv

Where I live it’s all hills, and not enough oxygen. I need lots of gears. Lighter weight matters on hills.

If you don’t need to accelerate and decelerate very often, it matters less.

The landscape around here is flat as a pancake..

246 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:16:16pm

When you don’t have much to contribute to the conversation — improvise.

Cracker - I Ride My Bike

247 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:19:45pm

re: #246 BongCrodny

When you don’t have much to contribute to the conversation — improvise.

Cracker - I Ride My Bike

[Embedded content]

Cool! I went to college with David Lowery. Didn’t know him well, but he idolized my musician boyfriend.

248 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:21:00pm

The Wailing Wailers - Simmer Down

I’ve been hooked on this tune for a couple of months now.

249 Gus  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:23:38pm

re: #248 jhrhv

The Wailing Wailers - Simmer Down

I’ve been hooked on this tune for a couple of months now.

250 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:25:50pm

Image: h6D1AAE68.jpg

Later, lizards. I gotta hit the sack.

251 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:26:10pm

re: #242 EPR-radar

Good luck with that. In college housing, I once had a leaky window right above an electrical outlet. Woke up one morning to a small explosion as the outlet shorted out.

When I was about to move into my motorhome fulltime I had an RV guy do some work on the rig to get it ready. As a favor, he had it powerwashed and the powerwasher blasted the plastic cover on the vent thingie in the bathroom area roof. When I moved in, it was December, cold, and raining. Until the ordered part arrived, I had to take an umbrella with me to pee.

252 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:27:27pm

re: #249 Gus

[Embedded content]

Have you seen Marley yet? Excellent documentary.

253 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:28:56pm

re: #252 allegro

Saw it on a plane then bought it on Blu-Ray. Liked it that much.

254 jhrhv  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:31:59pm

Think I’ll check out now too. Have a nice night all.

255 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:33:37pm

re: #253 jhrhv

Saw it on a plane then bought it on Blu-Ray. Liked it that much.

Until I saw it, I hadn’t really understood Bob Marley and his importance or background. My image of him has changed dramatically and I have a majorly changed attitude about his music and him. It also prompted me to do some additional research on the Rastafari that was an eye-opener.

256 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:39:01pm

Going to bed, but here is a question. Back in December, Obama said this:

In early December, comments by the White House spokesman were initially ambiguous. Days later, Luis Miranda, the White House’s Hispanic Affairs spokesman, told Puerto Rico’s El Nuevo Día that the Obama administration thought a majority of Puerto Ricans voted for statehood and supported Congress taking action.

Has Congress done anything, or does someone need to yell at them to get off their butts?

This also will put the Status of the remaining US Populated Territories into play. Those being D.C., Virgin Islands, American Samoa, the Northern Marianas Islands, and Guam.

Of those, 3 are large enough under the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 to become states (D.C., Virgin Islands, and Guam). Both the American Samoa and the Northern Marianas Islands are underneath it, but not by much (53,900 in the case of the NMI, and 55,500 in the case of AS).

257 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:09:45pm

re: #256 ProBosniaLiberal

The situation with respect to the PR status referendum of 2012 is unclear. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

A clear majority voted for a change in status. However, none of the several non-territorial options presented had over 50% of the total votes. 27% of the status ballots were blank or invalid on the question of which non-territorial status is preferred (one of the major PR parties had instructed its voters to leave this part of the ballot blank).

Thus “majority for statehood” is a bit of a stretch. This is probably enough of an excuse for the Republicans to do nothing.

258 freetoken  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:13:32pm
259 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:22:20pm
260 allegro  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:37:02pm

Freetoken, beat this…

261 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:51:41pm

re: #174 dragonath

Interestingly, Allahpundit is for some kind of reform. But the vast majority of the commentariat isn’t having any part of it.

I think the right-wing bloggers and pundits are going to find that they’re unable to hold onto this dragon they’ve got by the tail and have been feeding for years.

262 dragonath  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:52:47pm

re: #261 Shvaughn

Rawr?

263 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:58:04pm

re: #262 dragonath

Rawr?

Not you silly! :D

264 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:25:47am

re: #260 allegro

Ok, so we’re doing French tonight…

Here is Massenet’s Suite 3 for orchestra, “Scenes dramatiques d`apres Shakespeare”:

265 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:55:22am

Massenet is under appreciated by Americans, I think.

266 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 1:46:58am
267 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 2:48:40am
268 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 3:46:59am

Gillespie :

269 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 4:18:26am

One of the most supreme short stories ever written, The Garden of Forking Paths.

270 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 4:45:38am

re: #168 dragonath

Hot Air

re: #171 Gus

I stopped at “reconquista.”

*sprays coffee all over monitor, ROFLOL, wipes eyes, climbs back into chair*

Now it’s a reconquista?

So what about creeping Sharia and the impending global Caliphate? This seriously complicates things. I mean, I’m Muslim AND half Hispanic so….do I have to pick a side, or is it a win-win situation for me either way?

Wait. What about all the fascistic Godwin stuff from earlier in the week? And where does the Kenyan usurper Beelzebub fit in? Is there a map that goes with this?

It’s wayyyy too early in the morning for a ride on the crazy train. I’m gonna go back to sleep…

271 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 4:50:12am

re: #270 CuriousLurker

The Reconquista are intending to set up Sharia, once they’ve instituted fascism.

272 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:07:33am
273 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:10:50am

re: #271 freetoken

The Reconquista are intending to set up Sharia, once they’ve instituted fascism.

It really is one of the funniest conspiracy theories ever. The ‘reconquista’ was not along ethnic terms, it was along religious ones. So they think the Catholics are coming to get ‘em? I mean, the guys invading to drive out the Muslims were Visigoths and Franks, extremely white boys.

274 ninja cat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:11:43am

re: #271 freetoken

Wait, only fascism? I thought it was going to be fascism, communism and socialism, all at once, like you do. You’re telling me that’s not possibly possible?

275 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:13:19am

We’re probably about to be invaded by Mexico, Ireland, the Phillipines, Poland and Lithuania in a reconquista of these heathen Protestant lands for the reclamation of the Catholic church.

276 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:34:27am

re: #275 Obdicut

We’re probably about to be invaded by Mexico, Ireland, the Phillipines, Poland and Lithuania in a reconquista of these heathen Protestant lands for the reclamation of the Catholic church.

And dinosaurs.

277 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:53:35am

Good Morning.

278 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:54:36am

re: #277 PhillyPretzel

Good Morning.

Sometimes those two words are mutually exclusive

279 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:01:09am

I am just trying to be positive. I have some snow on my front walk and my right ankle hurts. I will wait until noon before I shovel it. Maybe my neighbor will do it.

280 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:22:39am

re: #273 Obdicut

It really is one of the funniest conspiracy theories ever. The ‘reconquista’ was not along ethnic terms, it was along religious ones. So they think the Catholics are coming to get ‘em? I mean, the guys invading to drive out the Muslims were Visigoths and Franks, extremely white boys.

Well, this time they’ll have Booby Jindal leading the drive. Louisiana will be reconquered at lighting speed!

///

281 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:38:27am

Here’s an update on the Nevada legislator who had threatened the Assembly Speaker and was arrested with a gun.

I think it became clear that there was possibly some mental illness going on with Brooks when an article about an interview with him was published yesterday.

282 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:46:31am

re: #281 Sionainn

Here’s an update on the Nevada legislator who had threatened the Assembly Speaker and was arrested with a gun.

I think it became clear that there was possibly some mental illness going on with Brooks when an article about an interview with him was published yesterday.

Sounds as if he’s been having “issues” for a while now

North Las Vegas police reporting they were investigating about 10 incidents from the past year in which Brooks had spats with neighbors that led to calls to police.

283 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:57:43am

re: #282 sattv4u2

Sounds as if he’s been having “issues” for a while now

North Las Vegas police reporting they were investigating about 10 incidents from the past year in which Brooks had spats with neighbors that led to calls to police.

It sounds like Las Vegas and its suburb got lucky (forgive the turn of phrase) on the matter of this fellow. If he hadn’t gotten in trouble for brandishing a gun, it seems likely to me that Brooks would have eventually killed someone.

284 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:01:59am

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

It sounds like Las Vegas and its suburb got lucky (forgive the turn of phrase) on the matter of this fellow. If he hadn’t gotten in trouble for brandishing a gun, it seems likely to me that Brooks would have eventually killed someone.

Thats a helluva leap I’m not willing to make

many people (yes, too many) “brandish guns” without killing anyone and are properly detained and charged for it

285 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:04:41am

re: #284 sattv4u2

Thats a helluva leap I’m not willing to make

many people (yes, too many) “brandish guns” without killing anyone and are properly detained and charged for it

I’m willing to make that leap. I’ve read that there was a restraining order (I haven’t confirmed that yet) against him at one point. If he’s making threats, had a gun, was playing with a sword, and thinks that people are out to get him…yeah, there’s a good chance that he’d be willing to use them against someone.

286 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:06:54am

re: #284 sattv4u2

Well, then you’re going to love this.

Guy buys AK-47 in MN because he thinks Obama’s going to take the guns away.

Decides to point the gun at his daughter because he was pissed at her grades (she got Bs instead of As). Wife sees and tries to intervene. He points gun at her too.

Yeah, the ironic part is that he may lose right to own firearms in future if he’s convicted on felony counts of assault.

287 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:11:34am

re: #285 Sionainn

I’m willing to make that leap. I’ve read that there was a restraining order (I haven’t confirmed that yet) against him at one point. If he’s making threats, had a gun, was playing with a sword, and thinks that people are out to get him…yeah, there’s a good chance that he’d be willing to use them against someone.

This. When someone is giving off as many warning signs as Steven Brooks is, unless they are made to get help they are fairly likely to hurt someone.

My first draft of this comment had the phrase “or at least disarmed,” after the word ‘help’ but I realized that the resulting sentence wasn’t entirely accurate. Taking away the guns of a person in serious mental distress will keep him from shooting people, but he still is likely to hurt someone or himself unless he receives treatment.

288 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:12:39am

re: #286 lawhawk

Well, then you’re going to love this.

Guy buys AK-47 in MN because he thinks Obama’s going to take the guns away.

Decides to point the gun at his daughter because he was pissed at her grades (she got Bs instead of As). Wife sees and tries to intervene. He points gun at her too.

Yeah, the ironic part is that he may lose right to own firearms in future if he’s convicted on felony counts of assault.

A fool and his Kalashnikov are soon parted.

289 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:21:19am

Here’s another gem of a bill from Arizona Republicans.

Graduation requirement of swearing an oath to defend the Constitution, so help me God.

290 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:24:27am

re: #289 Sionainn

Here’s another gem of a bill from Arizona Republicans.

Graduation requirement of swearing an oath to defend the Constitution, so help me God.

I’d amend the bill to add alternate versions of the oath for those whose faith or lack thereof requires it. The other content of the oath is non-problematic.

291 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:34:50am

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

Here’s the thing though, there shouldn’t be a freaking oath to graduate from anywhere. You did the work, you earned the diploma, no oath needed. It’s another bit of bullshit Jesusland posturing.

292 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:38:18am

re: #291 A Mom Anon

Also:
These kids aren’t running for office to uphold anything. High school is high school,wtf does an oath to god and country have to do with it? The more I think about this the more it pisses me off actually. It’s not acceptable and the legislature shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it.

293 Lidane  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:45:18am

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

I’d amend the bill to add alternate versions of the oath for those whose faith or lack thereof requires it. The other content of the oath is non-problematic.

Bullshit it’s not problematic. Stop knee-jerking into thinking that anything that sounds “patriotic” actually is.

No one should have to swear an oath to get a high school diploma that they earned.

294 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:49:13am

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

I’d amend the bill to add alternate versions of the oath for those whose faith or lack thereof requires it. The other content of the oath is non-problematic.

Why should anyone have to swear an oath to defend the Constitution in order to graduate? What about foreign students who graduate from U.S. high schools? Isn’t forcing someone to swear to defend the Constitution in order to get a diploma unconstitutional?

295 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:04:29am

re: #292 A Mom Anon

Teachers will be required to take oath as well? Administrators? It’s BS all the way down. /would you like to know more

This is a solution in search of a problem.

Fact is that they’re pushing for swearing on an oath or referring to a Constitution that these numbnuts barely understand or comprehend. Witness how Congressional GOPers made a media event of reading the Constitution, but then pushed ahead with a proposal to hold Congressional pay in escrow until a budget is done - an explicit violation of the 27th Amendment - a document they just read.

Idiots.

296 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:09:39am
297 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:11:23am

re: #296 Dark_Falcon

Anonymous threatens Justice Department over ‘hacktivist’ death

More idiots are going to wind up in jail.
Nice going.
/

298 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:12:32am

Now this is a protest

Davos 2013: Femen stage topless protest (video)

Ukrainian protest group Femen, angry over what they perceive as sexism and male domination of the world economy, ripped off their shirts and tried to force their way into the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

299 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:12:33am

re: #286 lawhawk

I hate door to door salespeople as much as the next guy. But this is going way overboard.

Boise man arrested for pointing gun at salesman

This works so much better.

Image: Go_Away.JPG

300 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:14:01am

re: #298 Killgore Trout

Now this is a protest

Davos 2013: Femen stage topless protest (video)

Put your dick back in your pants, Killgore.

301 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:24:40am

re: #294 Sionainn

Why should anyone have to swear an oath to defend the Constitution in order to graduate? What about foreign students who graduate from U.S. high schools? Isn’t forcing someone to swear to defend the Constitution in order to get a diploma unconstitutional?

Additionally, how does this part, “that I take this obligation freely,” square with the fact that they won’t get their diploma if they don’t say this stupid oath?

302 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:26:58am

re: #301 Sionainn

Additionally, how does this part, “that I take this obligation freely,” square with the fact that they won’t get their diploma if they don’t say this stupid oath?

That is a legit objection, on second thought. and not an easily answered one. But I think it is meant to signify that those will not swear loyalty belong on the bottom rung of society.

303 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:40:04am

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

I’d amend the bill to add alternate versions of the oath for those whose faith or lack thereof requires it. The other content of the oath is non-problematic.

No DF it’s extreamly problematical. It’s bullshit from fake patriots who’d pull a nugent and shit themselves before they actually served the nation that has protected them and provided for them since they were born. Cowardly immoral fake patriots. I come closer to believing in Heinlein’s Starship Troopers requirement of national service every time I listen to one of these fools.

304 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:01:10am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

But I think it is meant to signify that those will not swear loyalty belong on the bottom rung of society.

Why? Why not celebrate they fact that they have the courage to defy this bullshit? I’d hope that I would.

305 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:05:35am

re: #304 Obdicut

Why? Why not celebrate they fact that they have the courage to defy this bullshit? I’d hope that I would.

I’m talking about the intent of the bill’s drafter.

306 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:05:54am

re: #289 Sionainn

Here’s another gem of a bill from Arizona Republicans.

Graduation requirement of swearing an oath to defend the Constitution, so help me God.

Here ya go…

I, _______, schwöre feierlich, dass ich unterstützen und zu verteidigen, die Verfassung des Vaterlandes gegen alle Feinde, ausländische und inländische, dass ich wahren Glauben und Treue zur gleichen tragen; dass ich diese Pflicht zu nehmen, frei und ohne jede geistige Reservierung oder Zweck der Steuerhinterziehung, und dass ich gut und treulich diese Aufgaben, So wahr mir Gott helfe.

307 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:07:30am

re: #306 Gus

Here ya go…

I, _______, schwöre feierlich, dass ich unterstützen und zu verteidigen, die Verfassung des Vaterlandes gegen alle Feinde, ausländische und inländische, dass ich wahren Glauben und Treue zur gleichen tragen; dass ich diese Pflicht zu nehmen, frei und ohne jede geistige Reservierung oder Zweck der Steuerhinterziehung, und dass ich gut und treulich diese Aufgaben, So wahr mir Gott helfe.

Chinese would work too.

308 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:08:26am

re: #307 Stanghazi

Chinese would work too.

Korean!

어떤 심중 유보없이, 나는이 의무를 자유되거나, 엄숙 I, _______을, 나는 진정한 신념과 동일한에게 충성을 부담한다는, 내가 지원하고 국내외의 모든 적 조국의 헌법을 지키기 위해 맹세 회피의 수단, 그리고 그것이 내가 잘하고 충실하게이 임무를 배출되며 그러니까 나 하나님을 도와줍니다.

309 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:08:29am

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

I’m talking about the intent of the bill’s drafter.

The bill’s drafter is an idiot, I’ve no desire to analyze his intent.

310 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:10:51am

27 dead in Egypt riots after soccer melee verdict

CAIRO – The death toll climbed to 27 in Saturday’s riots in the northern city of Port Said after an Egyptian court handed down 21 death sentences in connection with last year’s deadly soccer melee.

At least 300 have been injured, local press said, in ongoing clashes between security forces and protesters who are angered by the verdicts related to a brawl in which 74 soccer fans were killed in February.

President Mohammed Morsi canceled a scheduled trip to Ethiopia on Saturday and instead met for the first time with top generals as part of the newly formed National Defense Council.

The military was deployed in Port Said to try to restore security, but assaults continued into the evening.

311 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:11:49am

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

I’m talking about the intent of the bill’s drafter.

It’s not just the drafter. It’s a whole group of Republicans. Small-government, of course, except when they want to use the power of the government to compel people. That’s your party, Dark.

They’re also ‘states rights’ guys, because they claim that individual states can violate the first amendment with no problem.

That’s your party.

312 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:12:48am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That is a legit objection, on second thought. and not an easily answered one. But I think it is meant to signify that those will not swear loyalty belong on the bottom rung of society.

Why require swearing allegiance to a document that was intended to get us away from that sort of foolishness?

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

I’m talking about the intent of the bill’s drafter.

What is that intent?

313 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:15:40am

re: #312 wrenchwench

Why require swearing allegiance to a document that was intended to get us away from that sort of foolishness?

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

What is that intent?

…MEXICANS!

314 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:17:23am
315 danarchy  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:18:17am

re: #298 Killgore Trout

Now this is a protest

Davos 2013: Femen stage topless protest (video)

They look cold…

316 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:20:53am

re: #315 danarchy

They look cold…

On the contrary, they are rather hot-tempered.

317 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:30:24am

re: #289 Sionainn

Here’s another gem of a bill from Arizona Republicans.

Graduation requirement of swearing an oath to defend the Constitution, so help me God.

Absurd. Especially when they mean an oath to defend their interpretation of the Constitution.

318 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:32:16am

Two Federal Judges Suggest All Labor, Business or Wall Street Regulation Is Unconstitutional

“…Tenther lawmakers — who include members of Congress, senators, governors and at least one sitting Supreme Court justice — have claimed that child labor laws, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, clean air laws and the federal highway system all violate the Constitution.”

I wish for them a lifetime supply of unregulated shrimp dinners.

319 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:32:34am

re: #317 jaunte

Absurd. Especially when they mean an oath to defend their interpretation of the Constitution.

An oath to defend the Constitution which itself is in violation of the Constitution. Classic.

320 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:32:45am

Or something.

321 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:38:34am

re: #319 Gus

An oath to defend the Constitution which itself is in violation of the Constitution. Classic.

2 Arizona bills push patriotic oaths in schools

Two state representatives have proposed bills requiring Arizona students to show more respect for their country in a move that is stirring constitutional arguments and a threat of lawsuits.

All public high-school seniors would have to recite an oath supporting the U.S. Constitution to be able to graduate, under a proposal in House Bill 2467 sponsored by Rep. Bob Thorpe, R-Flagstaff.

And all students in first through 12th grades would have to say the pledge of allegiance each day if House Bill 2284, sponsored by Rep. Steve Smith, R-Maricopa, passes.

Under current law, schools must set aside time for the pledge each day, but students may choose whether to participate.

[…]

Smith, a self-proclaimed member of the tea party with a history of sponsoring anti-illegal-immigration measures, said he introduced the legislation in response to a Maricopa high-school student who last year reported feeling mocked and embarrassed after she was the only one in her class to stand and say the pledge.

[…]

“Both bills are clearly unconstitutional, ironically enough,” said American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona Public Policy Director Anjali Abraham. “You can’t require students to attend school … and then require them to either pledge allegiance to the flag or swear this loyalty oath in order to graduate. It’s a violation of the First Amendment.”

If the Legislature passes the bills and Gov. Jan Brewer signs them into law, Abraham predicts the courts will overturn the laws. She said there is legal case precedent that clearly deems such acts unconstitutional.

“It’s a waste of time and resources for the taxpayers,” she said.

Sen. Steve Gallardo, D-Phoenix, called the bills “ridiculous.”

“These legislators who believe they are teaching the Constitution to students are not following the Constitution themselves when they introduce bills that are unconstitutional,” he said.

Like you said, Mexicans. It’s Arizona, Jake Dark.

322 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:38:38am

BBL

323 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:41:20am

re: #321 wrenchwench

2 Arizona bills push patriotic oaths in schools

Like you said, Mexicans. It’s Arizona, Jake Dark.

Of course.

So I guess this means if private individuals have to hold up the Constitution that means they would have to honor 1st Amendment rights in private settings. Right?

324 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:42:35am

re: #323 Gus

Of course.

So I guess this means if private individuals have to hold up the Constitution that means they would have to honor 1st Amendment rights in private settings. Right?

Maybe bills like this are attempts to create paradoxes and open wormholes so we can go to the future and get the awesome burritos they have there.

325 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:42:55am
326 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:43:43am

re: #324 Obdicut

Maybe bills like this are attempts to create paradoxes and open wormholes so we can go to the future and get the awesome burritos they have there.

Future burrito is a lie but I am more than willing to find out. //

327 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:45:08am
328 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:47:39am

re: #327 Gus

Ha. My sister has lived in #2 and #5; when her neighbors found out she was a Unitarian, she said it was as if she had admitted to being a witch.

329 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:48:03am

re: #321 wrenchwench

2 Arizona bills push patriotic oaths in schools

That’s creepy.

Like you said, Mexicans. It’s Arizona, Jake Dark.

I’m going go out on a limb and guess that if the millions of illegal immigrants we currently have were white Europeans, their presence wouldn’t likely be considered a problem and no ridiculous, creepy oaths would be required.

330 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:51:22am

Arizona Republicans, less than two and a half years ago:

For years, Arizona lawmakers have targeted illegal immigrants. In their next session, legislators will focus on the children of illegal immigrants.

Two prominent lawmakers want to change the way those children are granted citizenship.

The pair plan to introduce legislation that targets the children, possibly by adding notation on their state birth certificates that would identify them as children of illegal immigrants.

Such legislation, the lawmakers hope, could trigger a review of the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the 14th Amendment, which now grants citizenship to anyone born inside the U.S.

Read more: [Link: www.azcentral.com…]

At the national level, they’re still trying to fix the constitution that they want high school graduates to swear to uphold.

This time it’s Congressman Steve King. The Iowa Republican is once again advocating to “clarify” the portion of the 14th Amendment that protects birthright citizenship. The Amendment states that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” King is not opposed to the Amendment on its face, but maintains that the framers did not account for illegal immigration.

In 2010, King told a Cityview, a local newspaper, that “the framers did not consider the babies of illegals when they framed the 14th amendment because we didn’t have immigration law at the time, so they could not have wanted to confer automatic citizenship on the babies of people who were unlawfully in the United States.”

Fast-forward to an election where Republicans performed abysmally among the Latino community and vowed to reach out to Hispanics. But nothing has changed for Steve King. A statement from King about this session’s ”Birthright Citizenship Act” reads: “We need a common-sense solution to fix the flawed interpretation of the Constitution’s citizenship clause, and ‘The Birthright Citizenship Act of 2013′ does just that.”

331 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:51:33am

re: #329 CuriousLurker

That’s creepy.

I’m going go out on a limb and guess that if the millions of illegal immigrants we currently have were white Europeans, their presence wouldn’t likely be considered a problem and no ridiculous, creepy oaths would be required.

We’re going to need a loyalty oath.

332 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:52:16am

re: #330 wrenchwench

But they don’t want them to uphold it. That’s the fucking bizarre thing. They’re admitting that this oath might violate the Constitution, but they don’t care because States Rights.

333 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:52:57am

re: #330 wrenchwench

Arizona Republicans, less than two and a half years ago:

At the national level, they’re still trying to fix the constitution that they want high school graduates to swear to uphold.

Welcome to Arizona…

Papiers please… now ve shall require a loyalty oath.

Achtung baby!

//

334 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:54:03am

re: #332 Obdicut

But they don’t want them to uphold it. That’s the fucking bizarre thing. They’re admitting that this oath might violate the Constitution, but they don’t care because States Rights.

They haven’t worked out all the consequences of their nuances.

335 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:56:19am

Welcomen to Arizona! Papiers! Mach schnell! Hände haus!

336 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:57:05am

A blind man can tell when he enters Arizona by the smell of tobacco and boot leather.

337 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:57:21am

//

338 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:58:26am

From Thursday:

Morning Poll
What’s the Best Loony Bill Sponsored by Republican State Representative Steve Smith?

[…]

Below, we’ll reprint our list of mentally absent legislation sponsored by Smith.

Then, cast your vote for which bill you think is the best (least-worst) — like the one you’d vote for if you had a gun to your head, or something.

HB 2282: The first bone to Russell Pearce

Contrary to the Arizona Constitution, this bill would create a primary election in the case of a recall election. This bill, which Smith also proposed last year, was a response to Pearce losing the recall election in Legislative District 18, as all of the district’s voters got to choose between Pearce and a fellow Republican.


HB 2290: A check to Russell Pearce from the taxpayers

For the second time, Smith is trying to get “reimbursement” for Pearce for his recall-campaign expenses, which was around $260,000 for Pearce. This one isn’t exactly for future losers, either, as this proposal “applies retroactively to expenses incurred for a recall election held in November, 2011.” That’s Pearce, obviously.


HB2283: Foreign languages may not be printed on government paper

This one proposes that any state government “publication, document, or material, other than voting material” in a language other than English may “only” be posted on the Internet. One copy may be printed out by that agency, and kept in its office.


HB 2284: Mandatory Pledge of Allegiance

Under current Arizona law, there must be time set aside every day for public school students from elementary school to high school to pledge their allegiance to the flag of the United States of America — “for those students who wish.” As we’ve pointed in recent days, Smith and other legislators are proposing that students need permission from their parents to stop doing saying the pledge, and taking the “students who wish” part off the books.


HB 2291: Enforcing federal gun laws is illegal

This bit of total genius calls for a felony conviction and possible prison time for any federal “official, agent, or employee” to “enforce or attempt to enforce any act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the United States government” related to guns in Arizona. Additionally, the bill proposes that some new federal gun regulations are “unenforceable” in Arizona.


HB 2993: Turn hospital workers into immigration agents

Under this bill, if anyone receiving medical treatment at a hospital can’t provide their health insurance information, someone at the hospital “must reasonably confirm” that the person’s in the United States legally. If not, immigration authorities must be called “immediately.”


HB 2467: High school loyalty oath

Under this bill, high school students in Arizona would not be allowed to graduate until taking an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution.

Go to the link and cast your vote.

339 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:58:31am

re: #335 Gus

Sheriff Joe has pushed things a little too far. //

340 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:00:16am

re: #338 wrenchwench

From Thursday:

Morning Poll
What’s the Best Loony Bill Sponsored by Republican State Representative Steve Smith?

Go to the link and cast your vote.

Not sure but I think I detect a pattern.

Clearly he must be concerned about the influx of Germans. //

341 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:00:46am

re: #339 PhillyPretzel

Sheriff Joe has pushed things a little too far. //

Well, the Italians were a part of The Axis. //

342 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:01:31am

re: #338 wrenchwench

From Thursday:

Morning Poll
What’s the Best Loony Bill Sponsored by Republican State Representative Steve Smith?

Go to the link and cast your vote.

I’d say four of those are directly aimed at Mexicans (or Americans who look and/or speak like Mexicans) and two are in support of Russell Pearce because, you know, Mexicans.

And the remaining one is in re: GUNS.

343 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:03:15am

re: #342 wrenchwench

I’d say three of those are directly aimed at Mexicans (or Americans who look and/or speak like Mexicans) and two are in support of Russell Pearce because, you know, Mexicans.

You mean “speak Mexican.” //

344 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:04:28am
345 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:06:18am

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

BBL

Mr. Timing.

(I don’t think it was intentional, just my bad luck when I have amassed my evidence for you….)

346 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:07:18am

re: #344 Gus

Gene Siskel was a good movie critic.

347 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:08:51am

re: #346 PhillyPretzel

Gene Siskel was a good movie critic.

Awesome video there.

348 Political Atheist  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:10:26am

You guys probably remember Zack, the anti creationism in schools advocate? IMO what this young man did is just as significant worthy of respect.

Found at Wired, Paged

349 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:10:36am

I’m going to put some bikes together…

Image: h17B99BAD.jpg

(Gus should get a hat tip every time I post one of those now, ‘cause he told me how)

350 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:24:15am

Deep Thoughts, by Ted Cruz:

[Link: twitter.com…]

351 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:24:50am
352 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:26:34am

Utah begins sharing with national gun database

After years of not reporting Utah’s mentally ill to a federal database meant to keep guns out of the hands of those with a history of psychiatric problems, the state this week fed more than 10,000 records to the clearinghouse.

I wonder how long it will be before some rwnj Lawmaker introduces Legislation to prohibit this.

353 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:27:07am

NRI summit agenda:
[Link: nrinstitute.org…]

354 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:27:31am

re: #350 jaunte

Deep Thoughts, by Ted Cruz:

[Link: twitter.com…]

Deep.

355 Lidane  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:28:06am

You know. Small businesses like BP, Exxon Mobil, Shell, Koch Industries, and Halliburton.

356 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:28:27am

re: #348 Political Atheist

You guys probably remember Zack, the anti creationism in schools advocate? IMO what this young man did is just as significant worthy of respect.

Found at Wired, Paged

I’m betting if he was flabby he wouldn’t have done it. There’s a possibility of multiple motives. Interesting story, though, and between him and the TSA I’m definitely on his side.

The TSA is one of those frustrating things because while I feel real bad for the agents that work there and have to do a shitty job, the entire policy makes no sense. Every time the FBI has tried to smuggle weapons through, they’ve succeeded. What these searches have done is made it harder to move drugs around the country, and given the general usage of anti-terror stuff as anti-drug stuff, I kind of think that might have been the main point all along.

357 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:29:37am

This afternoon:

Do Demographics Doom the Right?
Moderator: Heather Higgins, Independent Women’s Voice
Michael Barone, Syndicated Columnist
Kellyanne Conway, The Polling Company, Inc.
Cleta Mitchell, Foley & Lardner, LLP
Ralph Reed, Faith and Freedom Coalition

Ralph Reed? Oh yeah.

Ralph Reed’s Group Compares Obama Policies to Nazi Germany

358 Lidane  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:31:23am
Do Demographics Doom the Right?

Yes. So does the right’s insistence on being the party of anti-science and pro-ignorance.

Next question?

359 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:31:55am

re: #329 CuriousLurker

That’s creepy.

I’m going go out on a limb and guess that if the millions of illegal immigrants we currently have were white Europeans, their presence wouldn’t likely be considered a problem and no ridiculous, creepy oaths would be required.

Well, yes and no. After all the Pledge of Allegiance was created by a socialist who feared that the new euro immigrants would remain loyal to their old countries. This is just the same thing only aimed at Mexicans rather than Italians, Irish & Eastern Europeans.

360 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:32:44am

re: #359 William Barnett-Lewis

Coincidentally, still mostly aimed at Catholics.

361 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:32:57am

re: #358 Lidane

Yes. So does the right’s insistence on being the party of anti-science and pro-ignorance.

Next question?

Hence the recent increased emphasis on gerrymandering, voter suppression and deceptive scaremongering

362 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:33:29am

Five white people wondering about demographics.

363 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:34:36am

Standing ovation for Ted Cruz at NRI summit.

364 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:36:21am

re: #360 Obdicut

Coincidentally, still mostly aimed at Catholics.

True, though Jews scared him too.

365 Political Atheist  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:40:48am

re: #356 Obdicut

I’m betting if he was flabby he wouldn’t have done it. There’s a possibility of multiple motives. Interesting story, though, and between him and the TSA I’m definitely on his side.

The TSA is one of those frustrating things because while I feel real bad for the agents that work there and have to do a shitty job, the entire policy makes no sense. Every time the FBI has tried to smuggle weapons through, they’ve succeeded. What these searches have done is made it harder to move drugs around the country, and given the general usage of anti-terror stuff as anti-drug stuff, I kind of think that might have been the main point all along.

The best thing we could do for those agents is bring more sensibility back to the whole travel search protocol, and use technology that is not so offensive to so many travelers. (Note TSA has or is removing the “nude body” scanners) I have an acquaintance that has been a TSA guy for years. They hate the foolish policies as much or more than the rest of us.

And they do have a hypersensitivity to any and all criticism or even the most quite protest of their policies. Which of course accelerates the general contempt we wind up with over those actions… More objections, more hypersensitive over reactions, more protest and the beat goes on.

366 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:41:23am

Grothman Suggests Planned Parenthood Targets Asian Americans for Abortion

367 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:46:41am

re: #359 William Barnett-Lewis

Well, yes and no. After all the Pledge of Allegiance was created by a socialist who feared that the new euro immigrants would remain loyal to their old countries. This is just the same thing only aimed at Mexicans rather than Italians, Irish & Eastern Europeans.

True, but there’s no legal force behind it that I know of, unlike what AZ is attempting to legislate.

368 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:00:47am

re: #367 CuriousLurker

True, but there’s no legal force behind it that I know of, unlike what AZ is attempting to legislate.

It took a Supreme Court case to get kids “permission” to not have to say the pledge every day in school. The far right still pushes it on kids in school every chance they can get. So no “law” but in many ways even more pernicious…

369 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:48:08am

re: #279 PhillyPretzel

I am just trying to be positive. I have some snow on my front walk and my right ankle hurts. I will wait until noon before I shovel it. Maybe my neighbor will do it.

Probably better doing it now before the sun gets on it. It is very light powder snow and can be swept easily.

Getting nostalgic today. Grew up in northeastern NY state where a lot of the winter weather was like this. Snow storm to dump a few inches of powder snow, then a week or so of clear and crisp weather with temps in the 20s. Repeat until spring thaw.

370 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:02:07pm

re: #350 jaunte

Deep Thoughts, by Ted Cruz:

[Link: twitter.com…]

Clearly, Sen. Cruz is going to be a young man to watch.

(And point at…giggling.)

371 EPR-radar  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 2:53:57pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That is a legit objection, on second thought. and not an easily answered one. But I think it is meant to signify that those will not swear loyalty belong on the bottom rung of society.

This right here is a big problem. The idea that those who don’t comply with a exercise in overt patriotism should become outcasts is toxic.

Downdinging for excessive authoritarianism.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

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 Frank says:

You see, when I was a kid I used to save up for a month, so I could get an R&B album and, the same day, the completed works of Anton Webern. Maybe that means something. Maybe that tells you something about my music. -- Excerpt from the book "Rock and Other Four Letter Words", copyright 1968.