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GOP Leaders Insist: Everything’s Fine, We Just Need to “Shine Our Shoes”

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Politics • Views: 25,165

Yes, the bigwigs of the GOP got together in Charlotte last week and decided that nothing’s wrong, they just need to stop saying dumb things. Victory is within their grasp, if they can just find the right shoe polish.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — The Republican Party honchos who huddled here for their first big gathering since the election devoted lots of time talking about the need to welcome Latinos and women, close the technology gap with Democrats and stop the self-destructive talk about rape.

But the party’s main problem, dozens of Republican National Committee members argued in interviews over three days this week, is who delivers its message and how, not the message itself. Overwhelmingly they insisted that substantive policy changes aren’t the answer to last year’s losses.

“It’s not the platform of the party that’s the issue,” RNC Chairman Reince Priebus said Friday after being easily reelected to a second, two-year term. “In many cases, it’s how we communicate about it. It is a couple dumb things that people have said.”

A slide presented during a closed-press strategy session said that Mitt Romney might be president if he had won fewer than 400,000 more votes in key swing states.

“We don’t need a new pair of shoes; we just need to shine our shoes,” said West Virginia national committeewoman Melody Potter.

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194 comments

1 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:07:25am

They went with a shoe-shining metaphor.

Yowza.

2 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:08:59am

Isn’t this the classic definition of insanity?

3 sizzzzlerz  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:09:40am

Its the deck chairs. The need re-arranging.

4 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:13:49am

Heh. Michael Steele delivers a mid-term “shellacking” in 2010, and is fired. Priebus tanks the Presidential, House and Senate races and gets a pat on the head. Love it.

5 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:15:52am

re: #1 Obdicut

They went with a shoe-shining metaphor.

Yowza.

Pardon me boy, is this the Transylvania station?

6 iossarian  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:16:21am

re: #4 Decatur Deb

Heh. Michael Steele delivers a mid-term “shellacking” in 2010, and is fired. Priebus tanks the Presidential, House and Senate races and gets a pat on the head. Love it.

Is there some other differentiating factor between these two gentlemen of which I am unaware?

There must be a reason for the seemingly disproportionate reaction to failure.

7 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:16:30am

re: #4 Decatur Deb

Heh. Michael Steele delivers a mid-term “shellacking” in 2010, and is fired. Priebus tanks the Presidential, House and Senate races and gets a pat on the head. Love it.

The GOP doesn’t actually need to be in power to get done what it wants— i.e., just fucking up shit, consolidating state power.

8 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:17:04am

Oops—wrong comment.

9 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:17:35am

~”Polish that turd!”

“But sir, they’re still not voting for us!!”

~”Polish it harder!”

“Sir, she can’t take any more polishing!”

~”Get the Febreeze and hose it down!”

10 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:18:54am

re: #6 iossarian

Is there some other differentiating factor between these two gentlemen of which I am unaware?

There must be a reason for the seemingly disproportionate reaction to failure.

Repubs are just in love with all things French.

11 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:20:38am

re: #9 Ghost of Tom Joad

Febreeze is made for odor control. Not stench control.

12 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:21:41am

re: #4 Decatur Deb

Heh. Michael Steele delivers a mid-term “shellacking” in 2010, and is fired. Priebus tanks the Presidential, House and Senate races and gets a pat on the head. Love it.

Republicans tend to fail upward at an alarming rate. Hell, look at all the rich ones and how much they’ve failed (coughTrumpcough). How there hasn’t been a hit put out on Karl Rove is proof of this fact.

And it’s even truer of voters and their politicians. Democrats vote for smart people because nobody wants a dumbass running things. Republicans vote for dumb failures to make themselves feel smarter.

13 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:22:53am

re: #12 Ghost of Tom Joad

Republicans tend to fail upward at an alarming rate. Hell, look at all the rich ones and how much they’ve failed (coughTrumpcough). How there hasn’t been a hit put out on Karl Rove is proof of this fact.

And it’s even truer of voters and their politicians. Democrats vote for smart people because nobody wants a dumbass running things. Republicans vote for dumb failures to make themselves feel smarter.

Why do you hate Sarah Palin?

14 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:26:57am

I also think the GOP is happier with the status quo than the Democrats are. Plenty of corporate donations flowing in, union influence on the retreat, majorities in a lot of state legislatures, and sufficient numbers in the House and Senate to keep Congress stagnated at worst and strangle any independent initiatives suggested by the President.

The Tea Party might cry about primarying incumbents, but I guess the main question comes down to where the re-election campaign money comes from. If the corporate and PAC sources start calling for candidates to jump in a different direction than the Tea Party wants, will the party follow?

15 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:29:01am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Why do you hate Sarah Palin?

I love Sarah. You kidding me? I think she helped tank McCain’s campaign and has been an endless source of laughs and facepalms.

16 Kronocide  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:30:43am

We’re gonna need a bigger tent

18 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:31:51am

re: #16 Kronocide

We’re gonna need a bigger tent

Is that to cover up the ditch the purists are throwing all the RINOs into?

19 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:43:02am

Why do I feel like the GOP is Billy Batts talking about shine boxes and he’s about to get the wrath of Tommy DeVito (Joe Pesci). What a bunch of assholes.

20 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:49:29am

Morning Cat Photo Incursion:
Image: Puffin-2.JPG

21 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:52:12am

Reince Priebus is Latin for ‘Raging Hemorrhoid’. True story.

22 iossarian  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:31am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

Reince Priebus is Latin for ‘Raging Hemorrhoid’. True story.

I heard it was an anagram for “I’ve got mine, fuck you”.

23 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:55am

re: #4 Decatur Deb

Heh. Michael Steele delivers a mid-term “shellacking” in 2010, and is fired. Priebus tanks the Presidential, House and Senate races and gets a pat on the head. Love it.

Someone pointed out the other day that he was re-elected Chairman without even being challenged. I can’t even imagine.

24 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:03:18am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

Reince Priebus is Latin for ‘Raging Hemorrhoid’. True story.

Disemvowel his name, and you get RNC PR BS. Democrats should say this as much as possible under all circumstances.

25 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:05:15am

re: #22 iossarian

I heard it was an anagram for “I’ve got mine, fuck you”.

Actual anagrams:
Rube Rice Penis
Bi Insecure Rep
Bi Creeps Urine
User Recipe Bin
Be Precise Ruin

26 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:00am

re: #22 iossarian

No, that’s the GOP mantra for voting against refilling the depleted National Flood Insurance Program earlier this year and those who opposed the $50.5 billion Sandy reconstruction aid bill that is now awaiting Senate approval before getting President Obama’s signature.

It’s been 3 months since Sandy hit and Congress - and the Republicans in particular - have screwed folks in the NYC metro area because of a refusal to approve the aid package that if the disaster had occurred in their own district, they’d be screaming bloody hell and seeking a clean passage without restrictions like offsetting cuts.

27 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:22am
28 Kronocide  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:27am

Prince Rebus

29 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:44am

re: #23 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

No one wanted the job.

30 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:58am

re: #27 dragonath

And the odds that it will pass the House?

31 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:07:38am

re: #30 lawhawk

And the odds that it will pass the House?

Heh!

32 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:07:42am

No, it’s the message. But this self-delusion is fine by me. The more they continue to insist that they just need to circle the wagons tighter around white rural evangelical identity politics in a country that’s becoming more and more brown, secular, and urban, the more the shellackings will continue.

33 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:08:07am

re: #30 lawhawk

And the odds that it will pass the House?

It calls for a path to citizenship. It’s DOA.

34 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:36am

re: #33 Targetpractice

It calls for a path to citizenship. It’s DOA.

So does that mean that McCain gets to rant at the clouds in the House in the next few days? Plus Rubio can hold a press conference and say nice things as well.

35 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:15:13am

re: #34 Feline Fearless Leader

So does that mean that McCain gets to rant at the clouds in the House in the next few days? Plus Rubio can hold a press conference and say nice things as well.

It means McCain will support it right up until Obama approves of it, then spin on his heel and rant that it “doesn’t do enough” or so forth. Meanwhile, Rubio will declare it to be the “wrong way” to deal with the issue and pump up his own bill…that will never see the light of day.

36 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:19:48am

re: #35 Targetpractice

It means McCain will support it right up until Obama approves of it, then spin on his heel and rant that it “doesn’t do enough” or so forth. Meanwhile, Rubio will declare it to be the “wrong way” to deal with the issue and pump up his own bill…that will never see the light of day.

Well, if the Senate GOP co-sponsors (as of the article) suddenly turn their back on it I guess that will solidify the future mantra to stop even trying to compromise with them since it appears that even their ‘bipartisan’ efforts are simply for grandstanding purposes.

And someone in the GOP leadership apparently has decided that history will blame the President for the gridlock. They have theirs anyways, so do nothing fits their world view.

37 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:29:49am

re: #36 Feline Fearless Leader

Eh, I doubt the GOP leadership gives a flying shit about history or if Obama is blamed for everything. Maybe before the election when it was about trying to hurt PBO’s chances. Now it’s all about them keeping their jobs (read: not getting primaried by some lunatic).

And, sadly, there’s been multiple times when we all thought that compromising and negotiating with these political terrorists would come to an end. I doubt immigration reform is going to be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

38 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:31:05am

And the framework is the classic bait-and-switch, advertising the path to citizenship without advertising the fine print that it’s dependent on border security measures being met, with the final vote on whether they have been more or not being a commission of border state governors and other officials. Let’s take a second and figure the odds that Brewer or Goodhair would ever sign off on “amnesty.”

39 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:32:43am

The Senate GOP will use the extremism in the House GOP to their advantage.

They can push a bipartisan version that would be far more to the right than they might otherwise be able to extract from Senate Democrats because they can claim that doing so might get House approval.

When the House kills the measure, the Senate GOP can claim that they’re at least being reasonable - using the extremists in the House to play up their credibility, even though they’re accepting of that extremism to their own ends. It lets them claim that they tried immigration reform, only to watch it die in the House. Let’s the potential 2016 candidates from the Senate use this as a springboard for their own candidacies, even as any House GOPer looking for a White House run will use their opposition vote to the same end.

40 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:34:43am

re: #34 Feline Fearless Leader

So does that mean that McCain gets to rant at the clouds in the House in the next few days? Plus Rubio can hold a press conference and say nice things as well.

Is Vegas placing odds on how many times McGramps will mention ‘Benghazi’?

41 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:39:39am

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

A man who witnesses say walked into a Kroger grocery store in Charlottesville armed with a loaded semi-automatic rifle will not face any criminal charges. Police say he did nothing illegal, but it created quite a scare.

Police responded to the call at the Kroger store on Emmet Street and Hydraulic Road shortly after 5 p.m. Sunday.

Witnesses and Kroger employees called 911 after a man walked into the store with a loaded AR-15. Police say a 22-year-old man had initially walked into the Kroger store unarmed, and then went back to his car to grab his rifle. He then briefly entered the store again before turning around and walking back out.

Monica Green, a witness, said she thought something was wrong when she saw people crowding at the front of the store. When she heard there was a man with a gun in the store, she ran out the door and called 911.

“At first it seemed like the police didn’t believe me,” said Green. “I was like ‘No, no they told me it was someone with a gun and to get out of the store.’ And so no sooner than I got in my car, the police had came up and had their guns drawn on a man with an assault rifle.”

Police restrained the man to ask him questions. They released him after they confirmed he is not a convicted felon, owned the gun legally and it was not concealed. Police say he was cooperative and did not break any laws.

As far as why the man brought the rifle into the store, Charlottesville police say they believe he was demonstrating his 2nd amendment rights based on his behavior.

Kroger managers have banned him from the property.

42 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:41:51am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

One day, two of these yahoos are going to end up in the same place at the same time, see each other as a threat, and fill each other (and who knows how many bystanders) full of holes.

Edit: and by the way, aren’t there laws against brandishing?

43 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:42:18am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

But don’t yell ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater, you might get people riled up.

44 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:43:19am

re: #42 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

One day, two of these yahoos are going to end up in the same place at the same time, see each other as a threat, and fill each other (and who knows how many bystanders) full of holes.

Note that Kroger banned the person from the property afterwards. Seems they have decided that 2nd amendment displays are bad for business.

They must be some sort of liberal capitalist commies!

45 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:43:56am

re: #42 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

One day, two of these yahoos are going to end up in the same place at the same time, see each other as a threat, and fill each other (and who knows how many bystanders) full of holes.

Edit: and by the way, aren’t there laws against brandishing?

Not sure but the police said he didn’t break any laws. I’m glad I already left. I didn’t want to see that in person.

46 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:44:04am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

Sounds like a perfectly good 2A demonstration, if you define ‘good’ as pissing off the cops, freaking the public, and costing business a day’s intake. Ought to win a lot of hearts and minds.

47 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:46:18am

re: #46 Decatur Deb

Sounds like a perfectly good 2A demonstration, if you define ‘good’ as pissing off the cops, freaking the public, and costing business a day’s intake. Ought to win a lot of hearts and minds.

From the Daily Progress:

Shopper Monica Green said she fled the store and called 911 after she saw the man. Green said she warned people in the parking lot not to enter the store.

It’s amazing because some people didn’t want to believe it was true, they just stood there like sitting ducks,” Green said. When she saw the man in was in custody, Green finished her shopping.

If this guy was intending to kill lots of people I can see how he would have been successful.

48 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:47:40am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

…..Yes, just exercising his 2nd amendment rights. What fucking planet are these people from? Sounds like he cased the place, got his gun, but thankfully had second thoughts about shooting up the place. Should have his weapons taken away and given a mandatory psych evaluation.

49 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:49:03am

Black kid with Skittles=Threat to society.
Yahoo with loaded AR=Civics lesson.

50 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:49:23am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday I went into town to run some errands and do some grocery shopping. About an hour after I left Kroger this guy showed up.

Man Walks into Hydraulic Road Kroger with Loaded Rifle

Fuck guns. Seriously. It’s shit like this that makes me ashamed I’m an American.

And again: if this guy had been anything other than white, the cops would have shot him to pieces first.

51 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:51:43am

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

From the Daily Progress:

If this guy was intending to kill lots of people I can see how he would have been successful.

And just imagine if someone with a concealed pistol decided to confront and draw his pistol because he perceived the kid with the military style rifle was a threat. This is why these gun fetishists have no business acting like cops.

52 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:51:47am

re: #50 Mattand

Fuck guns. Seriously. It’s shit like this that makes me ashamed I’m an American.

And again: if this guy had been anything other than white, the cops would have shot him to pieces first.

So you think all the Charlottesville and Albemarle county police are racists?

53 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:53:41am

re: #50 Mattand

Fuck guns. Seriously. It’s shit like this that makes me ashamed I’m an American.

And again: if this guy had been anything other than white, the cops would have shot him to pieces first.

Reminds me of those 2 douches in…was it Oregon? Who were walking around town with their AR-15s strapped to their backs.

That Bushmaster seems to be the defacto weapon of these dickless losers who probably still wet the bed. “Man Card” indeed.

54 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:54:24am

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

So you think all the Charlottesville and Albemarle county police are racists?

Naw, just all police anywhere. DWB, Exercising 2nd Amendment Rights While Black.

55 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:54:55am
re: #50 Mattand

Fuck guns. Seriously. It’s shit like this that makes me ashamed I’m an American.

And again: if this guy had been anything other than white, the cops would have shot him to pieces first.

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

So you think all the Charlottesville and Albemarle county police are racists?

I’m just speculating, but I imagine that if a Brown or Black person was walking around with a military-style rifle that the police response would be a bit more extreme in ANY part of this country.

56 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:54:56am

re: #51 Dr. Matt

And just imagine if someone with a concealed pistol decided to confront and draw his pistol because he perceived the kid with the military style rifle was a threat. This is why these gun fetishists have no business acting like cops.

Isn’t that how good citizens are supposed to react under the NRA scenario? Or do they have to let him empty a mag first?

57 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:10am

re: #46 Decatur Deb

Sounds like a perfectly good 2A demonstration, if you define ‘good’ as pissing off the cops, freaking the public, and costing business a day’s intake. Ought to win a lot of hearts and minds.

The open carry nuts are on the fringe even for gun nuts. They have utterly no clue that what they’re doing hurts the cause they claim to support and most of them have a very dim understanding of the history of guns and gun laws in America.

As for the question on brandishing, it would depend on your states laws, but here in Wisconsin with our Open Carry Law, it would be perfectly legal if utterly ignorant to have a rifle slung over your shoulder or across your back while walking down Madison’s State Street. You would have to take it off of your shoulder and then actively “brandish” it in a threatening manner for it to become a crime.

The purpose of the law is to allow hunters, going to and from hunting, to carry their weapon. These yahoo cowboy’s want it to mean something more ala Heinlein’s “Beyond This Horizon” which has a culture of dueling and is where his line about armed societies comes from.

58 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:16am

re: #42 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

One day, two of these yahoos are going to end up in the same place at the same time, see each other as a threat, and fill each other (and who knows how many bystanders) full of holes.

You think that’s bad?

Armed man’s Capitol intrusion unnerves Idaho lawmakers

A man with a handgun used a tour for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts as cover to inspect legislators’ desks and reach into a waste bin on the House floor.

*snip*

Guns of all kinds are allowed at the Capitol.

59 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:56:17am

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

So you think all the Charlottesville and Albemarle county police are racists?

Are they all racist? No.

But southern white cops being alerted that there was a black man with a rifle in a supermarket? That shit would have had the potential to end badly in South Jersey or Philly.

Given the endemic racism in this country and the South, it’s naive to think that a southern white police force would somehow be less threatened by that situation.

60 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:56:18am

Shorter GOP:

Image: gopleaders.jpg

61 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:57:40am

re: #58 Bubblehead II

You think that’s bad?

Armed man’s Capitol intrusion unnerves Idaho lawmakers

A man with a handgun used a tour for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts as cover to inspect legislators’ desks and reach into a waste bin on the House floor.

*snip*

Guns of all kinds are allowed at the Capitol.

Hell, I couldn’t carry my wallet-card bottle opener into the court house for jury duty in Alabama.

62 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:58:25am

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Hell, I couldn’t carry my wallet-card bottle opener into the court house for jury duty in Alabama.

That’s because you didn’t have the Ten Commandments inscribed upon it.
///

63 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:58:34am

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Hell, I couldn’t carry my wallet-card bottle opener into the court house for jury duty in Alabama.

Just try carrying a gun into a courthouse in Texas. They’ll slap handcuffs on you so fast your head will spin.

64 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:58:47am

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

So you think all the Charlottesville and Albemarle county police are racists?

And just so we can put this straw man to rest, this was my reaction to the two morons in Oregon who went to a mall fully strapped.

65 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:32am

re: #62 Feline Fearless Leader

That’s because you didn’t have the Ten Commandments inscribed upon it.
///

Thou shalt not deprive any soul of their tool to open a beer.

66 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:41am

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Hell, I couldn’t carry my wallet-card bottle opener into the court house for jury duty in Alabama.

And had the gentleman tried that carry here in Texas, where all the nearby and probably the entire chain of Krogers have posted a “no guns” notice on the door, he’d have had a different experience as well.

67 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:58am

re: #58 Bubblehead II

You think that’s bad?

Armed man’s Capitol intrusion unnerves Idaho lawmakers

A man with a handgun used a tour for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts as cover to inspect legislators’ desks and reach into a waste bin on the House floor.

*snip*

Guns of all kinds are allowed at the Capitol.

Considering the extreme right-wing hatred of politicians of both sides of the aisle, one would think they WOULD NOT want weapons in State Houses. Derp x100

68 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:01:18am

re: #66 kirkspencer

And had the gentleman tried that carry here in Texas, where all the nearby and probably the entire chain of Krogers have posted a “no guns” notice on the door, he’d have had a different experience as well.

Boycott Kroger’s !!1!

69 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:01:49am

re: #56 Decatur Deb

Isn’t that how good citizens are supposed to react under the NRA scenario? Or do they have to let him empty a mag first?

And that is the crux of the problem. Was he a threat or not? As soon as he entered the business with a gun should it be assumed he is just a law abiding citizen or should someone have opened fire on him before he could pull the trigger first. If I was packing and this happened with my child next to me and I wasted this shit for brains would I be in trouble? If I didn’t take him down and he shot my child because I thought he was a law abiding citizen exercising his 2nd right how would I live with myself?

This is just too fucking stupid for words.

70 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:02:01am

re: #55 Dr. Matt

I’m just speculating, but I imagine that if a Brown or Black person was walking around with a military-style rifle that the police response would be a bit more extreme in ANY part of this country.

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

71 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:02:36am

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Hell, I couldn’t carry my wallet-card bottle opener into the court house for jury duty in Alabama.

Weird isn’t it? Court Houses in Idaho are weapons free zones (can’t take my multitool into the Court House because it has knife blade), but I can take a frigging gun into the State House with impunity.

72 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:02:37am
73 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:03:07am

re: #69 Eventual Carrion

And that is the crux of the problem. Was he a threat or not? As soon as he entered the business with a gun should it be assumed he is just a law abiding citizen or should someone have opened fire on him before he could pull the trigger first. If I was packing and this happened with my child next to me and I wasted this shit for brains would I be in trouble? If I didn’t take him down and he shot my child because I thought he was a law abiding citizen exercising his 2nd right how would I live with myself?

This is just too fucking stupid for words.

You have .5 second to make that decision.

74 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:06:01am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

That’s my litmus test for conditions here. If the local forces start to show all-white again, it’s time to up the armament or get out of the Land o’ Cotton.

75 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:07:08am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

I hate to be blunt, but you’re being naive.

It seems like every six months the NJ State Troopers are being sued for racial discrimination. I’m related to someone who used to be a cop, who made no bones about how he racially profiled while on the job.

There’s always horror stories coming out of Philly about how minorities are treated on the job.

And this is in the North, where we are supposedly more chill about racial relations. It’s hard to believe that given the South’s history, both recent and past, that there’s little racial disharmony on the various police agencies.

76 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:07:26am

re: #69 Eventual Carrion

And that is the crux of the problem. Was he a threat or not? As soon as he entered the business with a gun should it be assumed he is just a law abiding citizen or should someone have opened fire on him before he could pull the trigger first. If I was packing and this happened with my child next to me and I wasted this shit for brains would I be in trouble? If I didn’t take him down and he shot my child because I thought he was a law abiding citizen exercising his 2nd right how would I live with myself?

This is just too fucking stupid for words.

That’s the exact problem with this insane idea of MOAR GUNZ! in every public place imaginable. How does anybody tell friend from foe when something goes wrong? Every time a car backfires in a parking lot, we’ll have daily renditions of the O.K. Corral.

77 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:07:48am

re: #71 Bubblehead II

Weird isn’t it? Court Houses in Idaho are weapons free zones (can’t take my multitool into the Court House because it has knife blade), but I can take a frigging gun into the State House with impunity.

Same here. In Texas, you can’t walk into a courtroom with a gun. They’ll cuff you and charge you with a felony, concealed carry permit or not. OTOH, if you want to skip the long lines to get into the Capitol building, get a concealed carry permit. They’ve got lines where they can avoid the metal detectors.

78 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:09:57am

I politely asked a Godwinner to stop. Let’s see if she responds by blocking my Tweets.

79 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:10:05am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

There is institutional racism in our justice system. Not in every police department, not in ever prosecutor’s office, but in general, it is harder for a black guy to get a fair shake than a white guy, by every measure. Crimes committed by white people and black people wind up with blacks arrested in disproportionate number for those committing the crimes, they’re more likely to be found guilty, and they’re more likely to face longer sentences.

We’ve come a long way and have a long way to go in dealing with racism in this country, and the GOP’s use of racism as a political tool isn’t helping, nor are those who support the GOP while it uses those tactics.

80 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:10:49am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

Sounds reasonable. The problem is that in the handful of DWB studies done where race of the officer was considered it turned out not to matter. Regardless of race of officer, non-whites had higher rates of being pulled over, of pullovers being searched, and of searches finding cause for arrest.

81 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:13:12am

Well my morning papers told me a new Gang of U.S. Senators was making plans to pass immigration reform. No, they didn’t say anything about what Republicans in the House of Representatives thought of the plan. Why do you ask?

82 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:14:08am

re: #79 Obdicut

There is institutional racism in our justice system. Not in every police department, not in ever prosecutor’s office, but in general, it is harder for a black guy to get a fair shake than a white guy, by every measure. Crimes committed by white people and black people wind up with blacks arrested in disproportionate number for those committing the crimes, they’re more likely to be found guilty, and they’re more likely to face longer sentences.

We’ve come a long way and have a long way to go in dealing with racism in this country, and the GOP’s use of racism as a political tool isn’t helping, nor are those who support the GOP while it uses those tactics.

QFFT (Quoted for fucking truth)

Being white and male, in this country at least, shields one from a lot of the disparity out there. That’s not to say that being white and male is bad, but it grants you a kind of immunity from shit that minorities and women have to deal with every day.

83 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:15:39am

re: #72 Lidane

I’ll prefer my Ark of the Covenant. Maybe a bit tough as a carry-on weapon, but for whole house (okay, region) defense, I can’t think of a better option.

All you spray and pray gun nutters beware. When I say that G-d will smite thee, I’m not kidding. And I’m pretty sure that if Moses approved of its use, then it’s fine for my use. /

84 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:15:40am

re: #82 Mattand

QFFT (Quoted for fucking truth)

Being white and male, in this country at least, shields one from a lot of the disparity out there. That’s not to say that being white and male is bad, but it grants you a kind of immunity from shit that minorities and women have to deal with every day.

The War on Some People Who Use Drugs (as Mr. Charles Pierce so astutely puts it) is a perfect example.

85 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:18:19am

re: #84 Ghost of Tom Joad

The War on Some People Who Use Drugs (as Mr. Charles Pierce so astutely puts it) is a perfect example.

I know someone in the DEA who told me, straight out, that they’re trained with the understanding that drugs is a basically a problem for minorities.

Given this guy’s generally caveman view on race, I interpreted that as only black people do drugs.

86 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:18:40am

re: #72 Lidane

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range?

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:19:17am

Timbuktu mayor says Islamists burned texts

Ousmane Halle said he heard about the burnings early Monday.

“It’s truly alarming that this has happened,” he told The Associated Press by telephone from Mali’s capital, Bamako, on Monday. “They torched all the important ancient manuscripts. The ancient books of geography and science. It is the history of Timbuktu, of its people.”

The mayor said Monday that the radical Islamists had torched his office as well as the Ahmed Baba Institute - a library rich with historical documents - in an act of retaliation before they fled late last week.

88 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:22:55am

re: #75 Mattand

I hate to be blunt, but you’re being naive.

It seems like every six months the NJ State Troopers are being sued for racial discrimination. I’m related to someone who used to be a cop, who made no bones about how he racially profiled while on the job.

There’s always horror stories coming out of Philly about how minorities are treated on the job.

And this is in the North, where we are supposedly more chill about racial relations. It’s hard to believe that given the South’s history, both recent and past, that there’s little racial disharmony on the various police agencies.

What does that have to do with the Charlottesville police?

89 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:26:57am

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

What does that have to do with the Charlottesville police?

Seriously?

I said you’re being naive if you think there’s no racial disharmony on the Charlottesville PD, regardless of racial make up. I used the sometimes shitty race relations of forces in the supposedly less racial North to make a point.

Particularly when contrasted to the South, where they still think the Stars and Bars doesn’t represent a bunch of treasonists who fought to preserve slavery.

90 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:28:42am

Interesting Op-Ed at the NYTimes today.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

91 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:28:58am

re: #89 Mattand

Seriously?

I said you’re being naive if you think there’s no racial disharmony on the Charlottesville PD, regardless of racial make up. I used the sometimes shitty race relations of forces in the supposedly less racial North to make a point.

Particularly when contrasted to the South, where they still think the Stars and Bars doesn’t represent a bunch of treasonists who fought to preserve slavery.

You do not live here, do not know any or even met any members of the police force out here and you already know they are racists. Amazing.

92 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:29:25am

re: #72 Lidane

I can’t tell if Frum is having a relapse, or if he’s trying to troll everyone on his own forum.

93 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:30:07am

re: #89 Mattand

Seriously?

I said you’re being naive if you think there’s no racial disharmony on the Charlottesville PD, regardless of racial make up. I used the sometimes shitty race relations of forces in the supposedly less racial North to make a point.

Particularly when contrasted to the South, where they still think the Stars and Bars doesn’t represent a bunch of treasonists who fought to preserve slavery.

Pretty broad brush being applied given that you appear to be applying “they” to the residents of multiple states without any valid context or nuance. And you’re also projecting issues with local PDs in Philadelphia and NJ onto another location without any factual basis to back it up.

94 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:30:24am

ROFL:

95 Geoff with a G  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:31:41am
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — The Republican Party honchos who huddled here for their first big gathering since the election devoted lots of time talking about the need to welcome Latinos and women, close the technology gap with Democrats and stop the self-destructive talk about rape.

They are only (at the very least) 8 years behind on the technology front. Decades + on the other points.

96 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:32:13am

re: #93 Feline Fearless Leader

Pretty broad brush being applied given that you appear to be applying “they” to the residents of multiple states without any valid context or nuance. And you’re also projecting issues with local PDs in Philadelphia and NJ onto another location without any factual basis to back it up.

Mattand is all knowing and all seeing of all the members of every police force in the United States.

97 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:32:37am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

I think about a third of the police force out here is a minority..black, hispanic, etc. I find it hard to just expect instant racism when police respond to anything out here.

It happens even when the officers are a minority. The explanations are not definitive, and a lot of it is tied up and compounded with class, but there seems to be a training bias.

98 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:33:20am

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan

Mattand is all knowing and all seeing of all the members of every police force in the United States.

That wasn’t called for. At this point escalating things into a pissing match is not going to be productive.

99 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:34:58am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

You do not live here, do not know any or even met any members of the police force out here and you already know they are racists. Amazing.

Amazing. Willful denial.

100 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:35:27am

re: #94 Lidane

ROFL:

Hope she saved those headless bodies for reuse.

101 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:35:42am

re: #98 Feline Fearless Leader

That wasn’t called for. At this point escalating things into a pissing match is not going to be productive.

You are right. I take that back. I don’t like it when someone does that to me. Sorry Mattand.

102 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:35:47am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

You do not live here, do not know any or even met any members of the police force out here and you already know they are racists. Amazing.

I already said initially that I don’t think they’re all racists. If you want me to believe that there’s no problems with race on their force, or any other American PD, it’s not gonna happen.

103 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:36:39am

re: #94 Lidane

Path to citizenship ‘contingent’ upon Jan Brewer saying the border is secure

It’s a typically stupid and confrontational way to phrase it, but in the end, any serious immigration reform legislation has to ensure both a path to cizienship and secure borders.

104 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:36:48am

re: #93 Feline Fearless Leader

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan

Mattand is all knowing and all seeing of all the members of every police force in the United States.

Nice strawman.

105 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:36:51am

Police unit saves 2 lives in same hour

Police saved the lives of two emotionally disturbed people in just an hour on Manhattan’s East Side Saturday afternoon, the NYPD said.

Members of the Emergency Services Unit thwarted the suicide of a hysterical woman who sat on the ledge of her sixth-floor bedroom window at E. Sixth St. at Avenue D about 12:30 p.m.

“They had a female with her feet dangling from the window threatening to jump,” said Sgt. Edward Allen, one of the cops involved.

…At 1:30 p.m., the same unit pulled a man in his 40s from the East River near E. 21st St. The man, who took off his clothes and jumped in the water, was found clinging to the seawall.

Two cops jumped in the river in dry suits and wrapped a rope around the man, then pushed him up a ladder to safety.

Allen said they were “able to assist him up the ladder” even though he was uncooperative.

They believe he may have been hypothermic and he was brought to Bellevue for treatment and a psychiatric evaluation.

106 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:39:30am

re: #93 Feline Fearless Leader

Pretty broad brush being applied given that you appear to be applying “they” to the residents of multiple states without any valid context or nuance. And you’re also projecting issues with local PDs in Philadelphia and NJ onto another location without any factual basis to back it up.

I stand by what I said. There’s a race problem in this country, and to think that a black guy strolling into a Kroeger with a rifle would have been treated no differently than a white guy is ludicrous.

107 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:39:56am

Cape Police officer saves child’s life

CAPE CORAL -
A toddler is doing well after nearly drowning in the family pool last night. Thankfully, a hero wasn’t too far away. Cape Coral Police Officer Josh Morgan responded quickly and saved the girl’s life.

…”When I got there, the Childs lips were blue, she was barely breathing and I could find very little pulse. I tried to get her airway clear because I knew she had ingested a lot of water,” he said.

Officer Morgan said he was able to get the girl to throw up and cry. As a father himself, he knew that was a good sign.

“This is the best possible scenario to a terrible situation. When you hear that kid cry – it’s the best thing you can hear in the world,” he said.

Now the girl’s mother is calling him a hero.

“He literally saved her life and I thank him for that,” she said.

108 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:42:35am

re: #76 Ghost of Tom Joad

That’s the exact problem with this insane idea of MOAR GUNZ! in every public place imaginable. How does anybody tell friend from foe when something goes wrong? Every time a car backfires in a parking lot, we’ll have daily renditions of the O.K. Corral.

Th first time I heard about a state passing a concealed carry law (Maryland? twenty years ago?) my first thought was, “Man, the fun I could have with a string of firecrackers.”

109 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:43:29am

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

[Link: news.virginia.edu…]

Gee, I have the Google, too.

110 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:44:43am

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

I fear that one of these “legal expression of Second Amendment rights” is going to lead to an incident involing injuries or even fatalities. To be followed by another very vitriolic discussion of allowed ways of expressing said rights.

111 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:45:07am

You can’t polish a turd. You have to roll it in glitter.

112 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:46:49am

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Timbuktu mayor says Islamists burned texts

I just let out the same whine a dog does when its master dies.

This is why I loathe extremists of all stripes. Their willingness to destroy every thing and every one that does not fit into their twisted worldview. Scumbags.

113 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:49:31am

re: #112 Romantic Heretic

I just let out the same whine a dog does when its master dies.

This is why I loathe extremists of all stripes. Their willingness to destroy every thing and every one that does not fit into their twisted worldview. Scumbags.

It just takes an instant and these treasures are gone forever. What a waste.

114 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:52:56am

re: #111 Amory Blaine

Mythbusters proved that you could polish one. Apparently reconfirmed at LGF today.

115 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:56:36am

Ahh thanks for the correction. Glitter gets all over everything anyways.

116 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:56:41am

re: #113 Killgore Trout

It just takes an instant and these treasures are gone forever. What a waste.

When the Taliban destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan in 2001 I couldn’t believe it. Now nothing surprises me. Back in November we had this:

‘Destroy the idols,’ Egyptian jihadist calls for removal of Sphinx, Pyramids

117 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:57:24am

These are most likely Islamic writings being attacked?

118 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:57:59am

re: #113 Killgore Trout

In the past three years, we’ve seen multiple examples of unique historical and cultural sites turned to ash.

The Aleppo souk - one of the largest open-air markets in the world and a UNESCO world heritage site - obliterated by Assad’s thugs in the ongoing civil war.

The Kasubi tombs in Uganda. Torched and still under investigation. UNESCO world heritage site.

Timbuktu Muslim sites - also a UNESCO world heritage site remain under threat.

That follows the tombs destroyed in Mali and Timbuktu last year.

119 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:01:15am

re: #117 Amory Blaine

The city is a huge repository of Islamic documents and historic structures. It was a center of Islamic thought in Africa and a major trade hub so losing those priceless documents would be irreplaceable. Losing those documents is a crime.

120 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:09:11am

Interesting to find that the vaunted 4H program has a youth shooting sports program. Paged.

121 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:10:39am

Sheriff Clarke uses CNN interview to defend gun ad

Appearing on CNN Monday morning, Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. doubled down on his cry for citizens to arm themselves.

Clarke, who last week urged residents to learn how to use a firearm so they can defend themselves, was interviewed by a not-too-sympathetic Soledad O’Brien on her “Starting Point” show.

O’Brien began the interview with a clip of Clarke’s call-to-arms radio spot from last week.

“Wow. Wow,” she said. “What’s the goal in this? Because it’s kind of scary. Is it to scare people? Is it to get everybody to run out and buy a gun?”

Clarke, who was interviewed from Monterey, Calif., where he was attending a conference, said the only scary thing is the criminal element.

“Once the wolf is at the door. Once the intruder is inside your home. Once you’re on the street and someone sticks a gun in your face to take your car or your wallet, you don’t have the option of calling 911,” Clarke responded.

Clarke said he just wants to give citizens options of how to defend themselves.

Link to radio ad (It’s a download)

122 efuseakay  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:12:59am

re: #121 Amory Blaine

Sheriff Clarke uses CNN interview to defend gun ad

Link to radio ad (It’s a download)

So… if someone has a gun to your head, he thinks the best option is for the victim to pull out their own gun? Brilliant idea. Nothing could possibly go wrong!

123 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:14:48am

South Dakota decides that Obama’s gun control measures are unconstitutional.

Sixty-two members of the South Dakota legislature have added their names to a measure asserting that the Second Amendment effectively denies “any and all federal initiatives directed at the restriction of gun ownership and the right of self defense,” the Argus Leader (Sioux Falls, S.D.) reported Monday.

“We look askance at all federal legislation and executive orders that contrive to evade or elude the sacred, hallowed, and clear intent and purpose of the Second Amendment which specifically and definitively prohibits all infringement of this fundamental right by federal insinuation,” the measure, Senate Bill 207, reads.

‘Sacred and hallowed.’ Holy crap. It really is a religion to some of these numbskulls.

124 efuseakay  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:15:19am

re: #123 makeitstop

South Dakota decides that Obama’s gun control measures are unconstitutional.

‘Sacred and hallowed.’ Holy crap. It really is a religion to some of these numbskulls.

Where have you been since 1776?

125 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:16:05am

My mother of all people was spouting about how she wants to carry a gun. I tried explaining to her that someone will just take it from her and shoot her with it. She says “I’ll carry it on my person and when they take my purse then I’ll shoot them”. I’m like “mom if you shoot someone in the back it’s murder”. I am confident enough that my incessant nagging and badgering will discourage her.

126 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:17:25am

re: #123 makeitstop

South Dakota decides that Obama’s gun control measures are unconstitutional.

‘Sacred and hallowed.’ Holy crap. It really is a religion to some of these numbskulls.

This quote is even more delicious when you realize that Thomas Jefferson had originally written “we hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable”, but Benjamin Franklin thought it sounded too religious, and he wanted a strictly secular document, and so substituted “self-evident” for “sacred and undeniable”.

Someone buy these clowns a history book.

127 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:18:00am

Islamic scholars invite Salman Rushdie for debate on Islam and prophet’s life

Some Islamic scholars have made an open invitation to controversial author Salman Rushdie for a debate.

The scholars, who also happen to be the members of powerful All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB), want Rushdie to join them for the debate on Islam and the prophet’s life.

The invite came during a seminar in Mumbai on Sunday. Rushdie reportedly wants to visit Mumbai to promote Deepa Mehta-directed movie Midnight’s Children, based on his novel by the same name.

The scholars were of the view that banning Rushdie or giving out death threats to him would serve no end. Instead, he should be engaged in an informed debate.

128 efuseakay  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:18:58am

re: #127 NJDhockeyfan

Islamic scholars invite Salman Rushdie for debate on Islam and prophet’s life

Sounds like a good way for Rushdie to get himself killed.

129 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:20:45am

re: #125 Amory Blaine

My mother of all people was spouting about how she wants to carry a gun. I tried explaining to her that someone will just take it from her and shoot her with it. She says “I’ll carry it on my person and when they take my purse then I’ll shoot them”. I’m like “mom if you shoot someone in the back it’s murder”. I am confident enough that my incessant nagging and badgering will discourage her.

When somebody wants to blow a person away for snatching a purse…there’s something deeper there than “I don’t want to get robbed.”

130 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:12am

An interesting development: Black Bloc anarchists emerge

The Black Bloc, a new Egyptian anarchist group, made its first appearance last week, on the eve of the second anniversary of the 25 January 2011 revolution. With a declared aim of fighting the Muslim Brotherhood, it has drawn a lot of mainstream criticism.

I had seen previous mentions of this but it was unclear if Egyptians were just adopting the dress code and behavior of European anarchists but it seems philosophical foundation of Black Bloc is spreading. It’s kind of interesting to see the European imitations of Arab Spring protests coming full circle to inspire what they were imitating. Probably not a helpful development but still interesting to see how ideas get around.

131 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:26am

re: #123 makeitstop

South Dakota decides that Obama’s gun control measures are unconstitutional.

‘Sacred and hallowed.’ Holy crap. It really is a religion to some of these numbskulls.

Funny, because it seems like they treat the rest of the amendments more like guidelines than actual rights. That goes for a lot of people, including our elected representatives.

132 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:29am

re: #125 Amory Blaine

My mother of all people was spouting about how she wants to carry a gun. I tried explaining to her that someone will just take it from her and shoot her with it. She says “I’ll carry it on my person and when they take my purse then I’ll shoot them”. I’m like “mom if you shoot someone in the back it’s murder”. I am confident enough that my incessant nagging and badgering will discourage her.

Does she already have experience with guns, or is this something that just emerged recently?

Because if this is a new “phase”, just take her to an indoor range and have her shoot a compact .357 magnum revolver. Once her wrists heal from the recoil, she’ll realize that she’s going to have to do that A LOT in order to be able to hit the broad side of a barn. The bonus is that she’ll think the change of heart was entirely her own idea.

133 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:34am

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan

Salifis in Saudi Arabia have likewise sought to destroy ancient structures in and around Mecca and Medina because they’re revered and they’ve construed them as idolatry. That includes structures believed to be central to the early foundation of Islam, including mosques and even burial places for Islamic leaders and imams.

The current redevelopment of areas around Mecca and Medina to support the Haj runs into this as you’ve got the need to support millions of pilgrims while landmark preservation has willingly gone out the window.

The Salifi (Wahabi) extremists that dominate in Saudi Arabia have their offshoots elsewhere in the world, and they ascribe to a ahistoric view on culture and societal value to preserving structures like the Timbuktu libraries and mosques, ancient Egyptian structures that predate Islam by thousands of years, or the Bamiyan Buddhas. The world is poorer culturally for it.

134 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:37am
135 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:23:39am

re: #111 Amory Blaine

You can’t polish a turd. You have to roll it in glitter.

Yes you can polish a turd.

edited to add: GTMA (better than “oops, late.”)

136 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:24:07am

re: #133 lawhawk

Tomb of Eve

Richard Francis Burton mentions seeing it in his translation of the Book Of One Thousand Nights And A Night.[2] The site was sealed with concrete by the religious authorities in 1975 as a result of pilgrims praying at the tomb.

137 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:24:08am

re: #123 makeitstop

You mean the measures that haven’t even been enacted into law or are otherwise suggestions to tighten existing rules that have loopholes you can drive a tank through? Or even those same kinds of regulations that the NRA was suggesting - on mental health restrictions for firearms procurement?

Or, boil it down to this:
The Constitution. How does it work.

138 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:25:12am

re: #128 efuseakay

Sounds like a good way for Rushdie to get himself killed.

There has to be some mass security in place before he shows up for the debate. He could be walking into a wasp nest.

139 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:28:00am

re: #137 lawhawk

You mean the measures that haven’t even been enacted into law or are otherwise suggestions to tighten existing rules that have loopholes you can drive a tank through? Or even those same kinds of regulations that the NRA was suggesting - on mental health restrictions for firearms procurement?

Or, boil it down to this:
The Constitution. How does it work.

Right. All those intrusive regulations that haven’t been enacted yet.

They’re a threat to hallowed and sacred guns everywhere!!11tY1!

140 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:28:22am

Iranian state TV says country has successfully sent monkey into space

TEHRAN, Iran – Iran said Monday it has successfully sent a monkey into space, describing the launch as another step toward Tehran’s goal of a manned space flight.

According to a brief report on state TV, the rocket dubbed Pishgam, or Pioneer in Farsi, reached a height of 72 miles. The report gave no other details on the timing or location of the launch, but said the monkey returned to earth safely.

Iran has long said it seeks to send an astronaut into space as part of its ambitious aerospace program, including plans for a new space center announced last year. In 2010, Iran said it launched an Explorer rocket into space carrying a mouse, turtle and worms.

141 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:30:27am

re: #140 NJDhockeyfan

The Iranian monkey does not look happy about it
Iranian space monkey images released by state TV - video

142 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:31:11am

re: #140 NJDhockeyfan

Iranian state TV says country has successfully sent monkey into space

All part of their dastardly plot to put nuclear weapons in space!!

143 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:33:16am

Moozlamic ray gunz.

144 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:35:27am

World Jewish groups slam Argentina-Iran ‘truth commission’

BUENOS AIRES, Jan 28 (Reuters) - World Jewish groups
denounced plans by Argentina and Iran to form a truth commission
to investigate the deadly 1994 bombing of a Buenos Aires Jewish
community center that Argentine courts say was sponsored by
Iran
.

The commission, announced during the weekend, was seen as a
minor diplomatic victory for Iran as it fights a U.S.-led effort
to isolate Tehran because of its nuclear program.

Argentine courts have said Iran was behind the attack on the
Jewish center, which killed 85 people. The commission agreement,
which will have to be approved by Argentina’s Congress, outlines
plans for Argentine officials to interview suspects in Iran -
not in a third country, as originally proposed by Argentina.

“Forming a joint truth commission with Iran is a farce,”
Shimon Samuels, Paris-based director of international relations
for the Simon Wiesenthal Center, told Reuters on Monday.

Yeah, this should be a fair investigation.
//

145 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:37:08am

And, as usual, aigle spammed and scrammed.

146 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:37:21am

re: #129 Ghost of Tom Joad

She’s susceptible to the constant stream of right wing nonsense bombarding the public.

147 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:37:29am

re: #141 Killgore Trout

The Iranian monkey does not look happy about it
Iranian space monkey images released by state TV - video

I suggest PETA fly out there right away and demand a meeting with the Mullahs about this.

148 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:45:06am

THANKS OBAMA!!

I know this site is, of course, anti-Obama but I got to hand it to the makers, at least it’s got humor! And if these things are the most petty things they are complaining about, things are not that bad, are they?

;-)

149 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:49:00am

So I guess Pink Floyd is now on some kind of black list. Derp.

150 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:49:52am

re: #149 Gus

So I guess Pink Floyd is now on some kind of black list. Derp.

Que? Is it the Satanism thing again?

151 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:51:20am

re: #149 Gus

PIGS IN SPACE MAAAAAN

152 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:51:29am

re: #150 Obdicut

Que? Is it the Satanism thing again?

Oh, because of Gerald Scarfe. Maybe I’m thinking of “Buckisms.”

153 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:52:28am

re: #149 Gus

So I guess Pink Floyd is now on some kind of black list. Derp.

???

Monkey on the Dark Side Of The Moon?

154 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:54:12am

re: #153 William of Orange

???

Monkey on the Dark Side Of The Moon?

This thing.

155 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:55:42am

“Not surprisingly Gerald Scarfe is a friend of Roger Waters.” Is that supposed to mean something that I’m not aware of?

156 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:55:48am

Ex-CIA man: Iran blast largest sabotage in decades

Iranian dissident-turned CIA operative Reza Kahlili told The Jerusalem Post on Monday that an alleged blast at the Fordow nuclear installation in Iran is “the largest case of sabotage in decades.”

Although it has not yet been verified, a report by Kahlili, according to which a massive blast rocked Iran’s key Fordow nuclear installation last week, continued to spread on Monday.

Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization has dismissed reports of an explosion as “Western propaganda,” while The Sunday Times cited Israeli intelligence figures as confirming the claim.

Speaking to the Post on Monday, Khalili expressed confidence that the alleged blast will receive “further coverage in the US,” and that “more information” will become available to verify the incident.

“This is the center of the Iranian nuclear program. It’s essential for the regime, its activities, and its nuclear program. If such a blow was given to Fordow, it definitely harms [Iran] drastically. They were reaching for 20 percent uranium enrichment, and were increasing output,” he added.

…Khalili said one of the sources who initially leaked information of the blast came from within the security forces guarding Fordow, adding that precise information of the attack was not being released in order to protect the source. “The source has been collaborating for a long time,” he said. A second source came from the Iranian Intelligence Ministry, he said, adding that it was very difficult to safely get information out of Iran.

Iranian authorities have not yet made any progress in their attempt to enter Fordow, Kahlili asserted, adding, “I fear there is radiation involved.” Iran’s defense ministry dispatched drilling vehicles, “the same they used to carve tunnels and create underground facilities, to see if they can make any headway in opening emergency exists, because they collapsed. Among those stuck in the facility are dozens of foreign nationals. These are contracted scientists,” he said.

Kahlili said a second mysterious blast occurred in Tehran last week, at an IRGC base called “21 Hamza.” “There are injuries, and there have been arrests of IRGC members who are being questioned. The Intelligence Ministry suspects sabotage,” he added.

Heh. If true this will put back their nuke dreams for a little while.

157 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:56:49am

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

Ex-CIA man: Iran blast largest sabotage in decades

Heh. If true this will put back their nuke dreams for a little while.

Yeah. World Net Daily.

158 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:57:10am

re: #154 Gus

This thing.

To be honest, I love Pink Floyd but that’s not what the cartoon brought to mind for me. It just reminded me of traditional anti-Semitic cartoons.

159 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:58:25am

Sabotage! Key Iranian nuclear facility hit?
Source: Explosion destroys much of underground installation
by Reza Kahlili

World. Net. Daily.

El-oh-el.

160 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:59:06am

re: #157 Gus

Yeah. World Net Daily.

I found that story at the Jerusalem Post and I don’t see any mention of WND in the article. Where did you see that?

161 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:59:28am

re: #155 Gus

“Not surprisingly Gerald Scarfe is a friend of Roger Waters.” Is that supposed to mean something that I’m not aware of?

Uh, Syd Barrett was a friend of Roger Waters too. Obviously being friends with Roger Waters is the kiss of death.

162 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:59:33am

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

Ex-CIA man: Iran blast largest sabotage in decades

Heh. If true this will put back their nuke dreams for a little while.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this but since the early story came from WND and Debka File I wouldn’t count on it.
There have been a few “explosion” stories that ended up being covert spying devices that self detonated when accidentally disturbed by maintenance crews.We’ll see.

164 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:00:09am

re: #161 dragonath

Uh, Syd Barrett was a friend of Roger Waters too. Obviously being friends with Roger Waters is the kiss of death.

Pretty much. You know the drill.

165 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:00:59am

re: #162 Killgore Trout

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this but since the early story came from WND and Debka File I wouldn’t count on it.
There have been a few “explosion” stories that ended up being covert spying devices that self detonated when accidentally disturbed by maintenance crews.We’ll see.

I didn’t know that.

166 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:02:22am
167 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:03:49am

Oh wow, Gerald Scarfe is Mr. Subtle.

168 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:04:32am

re: #160 NJDhockeyfan

I found that story at the Jerusalem Post and I don’t see any mention of WND in the article. Where did you see that?

I saw it early last night. Someone from Iran that I follow tweeted it. So basically the rest of the media has been following a lead from World Net Daily and some lunatic faker that writes for them. Good times. SNAFU.

169 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:05:55am

Well now I know where Martin Rowson in the Guardian got his style from.

170 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:06:34am

re: #167 dragonath

Oh wow, Gerald Scarfe is Mr. Subtle.

Ya think? Yeah, a common theme of his is blood or more accurately, red ink. Ogga booga!

171 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:08:22am
172 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:09:37am

Meanwhile Iran is showing how gifted they are in technology…

Iran unveils finger amputating machine for use on thieves

Iran has unveiled its latest innovation in criminal punishment – a machine that cuts off the fingers of thieves.

173 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:09:51am

NBC News is reporting that the Boy Scouts of America is close to ending its ban on gay members and leaders.

If adopted by the organization’s board of directors, it would represent a profound change on an issue that has been highly controversial — one that even went to the US Supreme Court. The new policy, now under discussion, would eliminate the ban from the national organization’s rules, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts.

“The chartered organizations that oversee and deliver scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with their organization’s mission, principles or religious beliefs,” according to Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts’ national organization.

Individual sponsors and parents “would be able to choose a local unit which best meets the needs of their families,” Smith said.

The discussion of a potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA’s national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

Only seven months ago, the Boy Scouts affirmed a policy of banning gay members, after a nearly two-year examination of the issue by a committee of volunteers convened by national leaders of the Boy Scouts of America, known as the BSA.

In a statement last July affirming the ban, its national executive board called it “the best policy for the organization.”

But since then, a scouting official said, local chapters have been urging a reconsideration. “We’re a grassroots organization. This is a response to what’s happening at the local level,” the official said.

174 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:10:01am

re: #169 dragonath

Yeah he’s like a bloody Ralph Steadman… who is from England too…

Oh God, are they all friends with Roger Waters?

175 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:11:09am

re: #165 NJDhockeyfan

I didn’t know that.

The actual source is Reza Kahlili. Mr. Kahlili is the “former Republican Guards member who became a CIA agent,” (quotes to indicate my skepticism) now retired and writing for WND and other so-called patriotic (///) news media organizations.

176 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:11:41am

re: #171 lawhawk

Extraordinary photos from Mars Curiosity.

Way cool. Thanks!

177 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:12:57am
178 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:18:12am

re: #173 lawhawk

NBC News is reporting that the Boy Scouts of America is close to ending its ban on gay members and leaders.

Good. They should get rid of their silly ban on nonbelievers too. Both policies have always seemed so stupid to me.

179 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:18:56am

Joyner: Gun Control is Pushing Nation Toward a ‘Second American Revolution’

On the most recent episode of “Prophetic Perspective on Current Events,” Rick Joyner was discussing the shooting at Sandy Hook, which he claimed was the result of demonic possession, when he warned that the shooting was going to lead to an attempt by the government to confiscate weapons, which would in turn lead to a “second American revolution.”

Joyner claimed that the modern-day prophets have received several “trustworthy revelations that were warnings from above” that “we are facing, right now, the break-up of our country and it is much closer than almost anybody is talking about”:

All these modern day revolutionaries, living in their Red Dawn fantasy worlds, are going to be sorely disappointed if they try and enact their civil war fantasies.

180 darthstar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:20:44am

Hey everyone…busy Monday, but just wanted to say hello and happy new week. Job interview tomorrow, so I need to see about getting a new shirt and if any of my suits are appropriate or if I should go IT casual (I usually like to overdress just a bit). Interesting weekend on ski patrol…rained like hell Friday (it was wet, wet, wet). Saturday afternoon the soft snow froze when the temperature dropped, creating what we like to call ‘frozen chicken heads’ sticking out of the snow…great edge catchers and cause all sorts of injuries on the mountain. Sunday brought four inches of fresh light powder to hide said chicken heads, and we had all sorts of accidents. I actually reduced a dislocated shoulder on the mountain (man, that poor bastard screamed when I did that, but was grateful afteward…I was just trying to stabilize his arm and popped it back into its socket.). By the way, an anterior dislocation really looks fucked up…like someone slipped a tennis ball under the person’s skin.

So, what’s going on in the rest of the world? GOP still walking around with its own frozen chicken head up its ass?

181 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:21:03am

Preibus: It’s not the platform that’s the issue. Yet you think you’ll be able to bring women and minorities into the party? The Republican Party hasn’t learned a damned thing from this or the 2008 election and at this rate, I don’t think they’ll ever will.

182 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:22:18am

re: #181 HappyWarrior

Preibus: It’s not the platform that’s the issue. Yet you think you’ll be able to bring women and minorities into the party? The Republican Party hasn’t learned a damned thing from this or the 2008 election and at this rate, I don’t think they’ll ever will.

Their one take away from the last election: Gerrymandering works.

183 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:22:23am

re: #173 lawhawk

Even if they change on this, and that’s an “I’ll believe it when it happens” to me, I’d still not let my son anywhere near them. 4-H next fall would be good, though, especially out here in Upper-Flyoveria.

184 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:23:17am

re: #173 lawhawk

Losing all those Corporate donations in a very public way seems to be having the desired effect.

185 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:24:15am

Top Conservative Publication: God Wants You To Have An Assault Rifle

Legislation aimed at reducing gun violence is “a limitation on a God-given right of man that has existed throughout the history of civil society,” according to an article published in the leading conservative opinion journal National Review.

The author, David French, interprets the Christian Bible as granting everyone a right to self-defense. He suggests that this, if true, means that God’s will is that people have access to guns, as they are the means for self defense:

In fact, Jesus’s disciples carried swords, and Jesus even said in some contexts the unarmed should arm themselves…What does all this mean? Essentially that gun control represents not merely a limitation on a constitutional right but a limitation on a God-given right of man that has existed throughout the history of civil society. All rights — of course — are subject to some limits (the right of free speech is not unlimited, for example), and there is much room for debate on the extent of those limits, but state action against the right of self-defense is by default a violation of the natural rights of man, and the state’s political judgment about the limitations of that right should be viewed with extreme skepticism and must overcome a heavy burden of justification.

186 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:27:54am

New Mexico Lawmaker Clarifies Her Bill Will Prosecute Doctors Who Perform Abortions For Rape Victims

New Mexico Rep. Cathrynn Brown (R) made headlines this past week when she introduced a bill to charge women who become pregnant from rape with “tampering with evidence” if they choose to have an abortion. Brown has since clarified that House Bill 206 isn’t intended to target victims of sexual assault, and has worked to revise the language of the legislation — but although she wants to ensure rape survivors won’t be prosecuted for getting an abortion, she hasn’t extended the same protections for the doctors who perform those abortions.

Oh, that makes it so much better.
///

187 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:30:24am

And since its been a few days since they thought of a way to try and impeach the President;

GOP Congressman Offers Plan To Impeach President Over Budget Deficits

Brooks’ outlandish proposal calls for a balanced budget within five years, after which time federal spending could not exceed federal revenue. If the country were to face a deficit, Brooks’ bill demands that the President take “such steps as are necessary” to avoid excess spending. But under Brooks’ plan, there’s only one thing the President can do to avoid a deficit, as only one side of the balance sheet is open to negotiation:

“The President may not order any increase in taxes or other revenue measures to enforce the Amendment,” the bill reads. “A President’s failure to prevent a prohibited fiscal year deficit is an impeachable offense.”

188 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:41:31am

Today’s Republican Party is like Mr. Haney from “Green Acres,” and its platform is that useless stuff he sells from the back of his truck.

“Well, howdy, Mister Douglas — perhaps I could interest you in this splendid, almost nearly new redistricting bill, which — at the cost of significant personal expense to myself — I would be happy to combine with this gen-u-wine anti-abortion law, which I’m sure you would agree would be a blue chip addition to any state or federal legislature…”

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:43:23am

re: #187 Kragar

And since its been a few days since they thought of a way to try and impeach the President;

GOP Congressman Offers Plan To Impeach President Over Budget Deficits

I think I’ll get a cooked sausage from CMOT Dibbler instead.
///

190 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:50:35am

When did turd polishing become both necessary and sufficient?

191 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:51:57am

re: #179 Kragar

Joyner: Gun Control is Pushing Nation Toward a ‘Second American Revolution’

All these modern day revolutionaries, living in their Red Dawn fantasy worlds, are going to be sorely disappointed if they try and enact their civil war fantasies.

Because the 1st Revolution was all about the British trying to take the colonial’s muskets.//

192 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:57:35am

re: #133 lawhawk

Salifis in Saudi Arabia have likewise sought to destroy ancient structures in and around Mecca and Medina because they’re revered and they’ve construed them as idolatry. That includes structures believed to be central to the early foundation of Islam, including mosques and even burial places for Islamic leaders and imams.

The current redevelopment of areas around Mecca and Medina to support the Haj runs into this as you’ve got the need to support millions of pilgrims while landmark preservation has willingly gone out the window.

The Salifi (Wahabi) extremists that dominate in Saudi Arabia have their offshoots elsewhere in the world, and they ascribe to a ahistoric view on culture and societal value to preserving structures like the Timbuktu libraries and mosques, ancient Egyptian structures that predate Islam by thousands of years, or the Bamiyan Buddhas. The world is poorer culturally for it.

If I recall correctly, one of the things the Salafists are planning on obliterating is the tomb of Muhammed (saas) himself.

*headdesk*

193 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:06:52am

re: #190 b_sharp

When did turd polishing become both necessary and sufficient?

I blame Antiques Roadshow.

194 Stentor  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 7:43:42pm

They’re all fucking tone deaf.

It’s like the joke about the farmer bragging to his neighbor about how smart his new mule was. So the neighbor says, “show me what he can do.” To which the farmer nods, walks over to a woodpile, picks up the largest two-by-four he can find, walks back over to where the mule is standing, hauls way back & cracks the mule across the forehead.
The neighbor says, “What the hell did you do that for? I thought you said he was smart?” To which the farmer replies, “He is, you just have to get his attention first.”

What kind of two-by-four straight across the head is it going to take to get the GOPs attention?


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