NSA Leaker Outs Himself: Edward Snowden

Greenwald says: “Courage is contagious”
US News • Views: 32,210

The former CIA employee who handed over NSA documents to Glenn Greenwald has outed himself.

He’s so concerned about the horrible United States that he fled… to China.

On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.

In the three weeks since he arrived, he has been ensconced in a hotel room. “I’ve left the room maybe a total of three times during my entire stay,” he said. It is a plush hotel and, what with eating meals in his room too, he has run up big bills.

He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

Though that may sound like paranoia to some, Snowden has good reason for such fears. He worked in the US intelligence world for almost a decade. He knows that the biggest and most secretive surveillance organisation in America, the NSA, along with the most powerful government on the planet, is looking for him.

Since the disclosures began to emerge, he has watched television and monitored the internet, hearing all the threats and vows of prosecution emanating from Washington.

And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.

“All my options are bad,” he said. The US could begin extradition proceedings against him, a potentially problematic, lengthy and unpredictable course for Washington. Or the Chinese government might whisk him away for questioning, viewing him as a useful source of information. Or he might end up being grabbed and bundled into a plane bound for US territory.

Greenwald’s ego flares up like a supernova:

UPDATE at 6/9/13 1:09:27 pm

Some information about the place Snowden describes as having “a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent:” Censorship in Hong Kong.

In 2011, Hong Kong Journalists Association Chairwoman Mak Yin-ting commented on growing business ties between Beijing and media owners, asserting that “Now, more than half of Hong Kong media bosses or high media management have been absorbed by the Communist government… They may consider whether reporting on some issues will affect the relationship between their bosses and the government.”[7][8] That year, Hong Kong’s ranking on the Press Freedom Index published annually by Reporters Without Borders dropped twenty places to 54th place. In a report published alongside the index, it was noted that “arrests, assaults and harassment worsened working conditions for journalists [in Hong Kong] to an extent not seen previously, a sign of a worrying change in government policy.”

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471 comments
1 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:48:12am

Traitor.

2 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:49:33am

Guys like this used to be called spies and double agents, not whistleblowers.

3 BigPapa  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:49:44am

Courage is Contagious

So is ego and idiocy.

4 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:50:17am

Fleeing to a foreign country kind of undermines his credibility.

Fleeing to Hong Kong while Obama is engaged in talks with China about cyberterrorism after having leaked NSA documents about cyberespionage is some kind of kooky shit.

5 sauceruney  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:51:29am

“Courage is contagious”

The smarminess, it hurts.

6 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:52:09am

re: #2 Kragar

He’s not really a double agent, because there’s no one else he’s working for. Apparently.

I think he thinks of himself as a whistleblower, but to really know that we’d have to know why he mischaracterized the program when talking about it with Greenwald.

7 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:52:14am
In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: “I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions,” but “I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.”

Despite his determination to be publicly unveiled, he repeatedly insisted that he wants to avoid the media spotlight. “I don’t want public attention because I don’t want the story to be about me. I want it to be about what the US government is doing.”

Shorter translation: I am a paranoid attention whore.

8 BroncD  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:01am

I’m just glad he’s taken refuge in that bastion of freedom, the People’s Republic of China.

9 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:14am

re: #6 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

He’s not really a double agent, because there’s no one else he’s working for. Apparently.

I think he thinks of himself as a whistleblower, but to really know that we’d have to know why he mischaracterized the program when talking about it with Greenwald.

The Chinese took in a CIA agent out of the kindness of their hearts?

10 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:20am

Obama confronts China over ‘direct theft’ of US intellectual property

“Cybersecurity should not become the root cause of mutual suspicion and frictions between our two countries. Rather, it should be a new bright spot in our cooperation,” said Yang Jiechi, Xi’s senior foreign policy adviser.


US report warns on China IP theft

The theft of intellectual property from the US is “unprecedented” and costing the nation an estimated $300bn (£200bn) each year, a report says.

The study, led by former top-ranking officials, said China was thought to be behind 50-80% of the theft.

Stronger deterrent measures that made IP theft unprofitable were needed, the report said.

11 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:58am

Fleeing the consequences of your actions is an interesting definition of courage.

12 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:54:02am

He leaked top secret information to a foreign entity, The Guardian. He’s in hiding in Hong Kong a territory of the People’s Republic of China. He is a traitor.

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:54:08am

A “whistleblower” is someone who reveals secret information about illegal programs.

14 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:54:45am

He’s a slipperysloper.

15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:54:57am

re: #8 BroncD

I’m just glad he’s taken refuge in that bastion of freedom, the People’s Republic of China.

Hong Kong is a weird place that is semi-independent. It’s relationship with the mainland is very complex, but basically it is an enormous source of wealth for the PRC and they’re loathe to fuck with it too much. Hong Kong has its own law, it is not governed by the PRC’s laws. When they recently tried to expand police powers, it triggered massive protests and the law got shut down.

16 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:55:39am

Yes, another “courageous” “whistleblower” who hauled ass out of the country before the story broke.

17 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:55:56am

Frankly, what Snowden should really go to jail for is those atrocious made-up Powerpoint slides.

18 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:56:24am
19 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:58:10am
He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

If he honestly suspects these are effective measures I suspect we’re dealing with “Bradley Manning” levels of clueless.

20 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:58:34am

re: #9 Kragar

The Chinese took in a CIA agent out of the kindness of their hearts?

He was a “technical assistant”, not an agent. He wasn’t a classified employee. He now works for Booz Allen and did contracting work at the NSA. He’s a tech dude.

This is my favorite bit from the article:

And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.

They must have used such sophisticated technology to visit his home. And yes, idiot, of course it’s because you weren’t at work. You work at the NSA and you go missing they’re going to go figure out what the fuck happened.

21 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:59:12am

Grrrr.

22 BroncD  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:59:52am

re: #15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, I know. It just seemed kind of funny to me.

23 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:00:08pm

re: #19 McSpiff

If he honestly suspects these are effective measures I suspect we’re dealing with “Bradley Manning” levels of clueless.

Yeah, this is the big question to me: Is he some sort of libertarian tech geek who is confabulating a lot of shit together when he makes his mischaracterizations of PRISM— does he believe them? Or did he just decide he wanted lots of attention? Or, of course, is there something actually more to the program that for some reason he hasn’t bothered to articulate.

24 StephenMeansMe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:00:58pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

A “whistleblower” is someone who reveals secret information about illegal programs.

Or at the very least legal-but-abusive programs (like if the FISA court just rubber stamped everything without real judicial review)… this just strikes me as flipping the bird to your organization/country in order to score some cred.

Which, sadly, is becoming more and more common as a strategy.

25 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:01:36pm

Doesn’t Greenwald live in south America somewhere? If he doesn’t even live here, why does he even give a shit?

26 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:02:47pm

Fucking China. I’d like to see what the Alex Jones crowd makes of that.

27 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:02:54pm

re: #25 Velvet Elvis

Like Captain Nemo, he has transcended nationality.

28 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:04:21pm
29 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:04:46pm

re: #25 Velvet Elvis

Doesn’t Greenwald live in south America somewhere? If he doesn’t even live here, why does he even give a shit?

To be fair, his stated reason for staying in Rio is that his partner doesn’t have immigration rights to the US because he’s gay, and we have DOMA.

30 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:04:51pm

re: #23 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, this is the big question to me: Is he some sort of libertarian tech geek who is confabulating a lot of shit together when he makes his mischaracterizations of PRISM— does he believe them? Or did he just decide he wanted lots of attention? Or, of course, is there something actually more to the program that for some reason he hasn’t bothered to articulate.

These programs as vast, technical and complex. They intersect at weird places between the law and technology (which bits are covered by the 4th amendment and which aren’t?). Those conditions are ripe for

a) ZOMG conspiracy theories
b) Misdirected “righteous” action.
c) Truly abysmal reporting

We’ve seen all three, doubly bad since the Verizon metadata and PRISM stories have become so intertwined when really they have nothing to do with each other, except both being run by the NSA.

31 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:04:59pm

Surveillance in China? Surely, you kid!

32 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:05:22pm

Edward Snowden is in Hong King, China and Greenwald is in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. The Guardian is based in the UK. What’s wrong with this picture?

33 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:05:52pm

re: #28 jaunte

Really, Hong Kong is an actual bastion of free speech. it really is. He’s not wrong about that. It is such a bastion of free speech that when China tried to impose stronger police search orders, there were giant protests and the PRC backed down.

Hong Kong is not the PRC. It is a weird, weird intersectional place, not easily categorized.

34 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:07:54pm

re: #33 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Really, Hong Kong is an actual bastion of free speech…

This discussion is a fascinating one, but it’s really only relevant insofar as we want our daily dose of irony. No matter where he went, he fled the United States as something like a traitor.

35 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:07:56pm

Greenwald indulging his taste for hyperbole in the latest piece:

Snowden will go down in history as one of America’s most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning.

So Glenn is not only reporting this story, he is already authoring history books about it!

36 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:08:55pm

He described as formative an incident in which he claimed CIA operatives were attempting to recruit a Swiss banker to obtain secret banking information. Snowden said they achieved this by purposely getting the banker drunk and encouraging him to drive home in his car. When the banker was arrested for drunk driving, the undercover agent seeking to befriend him offered to help, and a bond was formed that led to successful recruitment.

Shocking! What a moralistic asshole. How does he think spying has been perpetrated over the years? I guess the CIA forced that liquor down his throat and placed him behind the wheel. “You cant cheat an honest man” as the saying goes. They exploited his weakness. CIA is not Sunday school.

37 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:09:23pm

re: #33 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I would assume the powers that be in the PRC have a workaround process for anything that really bothers them in Hong Kong.

38 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:09:25pm

re: #34 erik_t

Yeah, it’s color commentary.

What’s weird is that after fleeing to Hong Kong, Greenwald is hailing his courage.

39 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:09:28pm

re: #32 Gus

Edward Snowden is in Hong King, China and Greenwald is in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. The Guardian is based in the UK. What’s wrong with this picture?

I work with customers in China, Brazil and UK. What’s right with the picture (for Canada) and wrong for the US? Some are now contractually requiring us to not store ANY of their data in our US data centers, and American employees must not have access.

Something to keep in mind.

40 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:11:19pm

Meanwhile, off in Turkey, Erdogan continues to think that a Democracy means that, if the other side loses in elections, they can be run over roughshod with out any ability to speak up. He continues to be mindlessly aggressive, and pushing his followers to intimidate others more. He asserts that because his government has planted trees in the country-side, that the people of Istanbul have no right to get angry over his corrupt deal to demolish a neighborhood park that the local residents enjoy.

Also, my opinion of President Abdullah Gul has gone up. He has been making critical comments of the Authoritarian Erdogan, saying that Democracy is not just about elections. And he is of the same party as Erdogan.

I wonder if Abdullah Gul has any power to engineer Erdogan out of office? This should also be a warning, as Republicans in the US would try to get away with this if they could.

41 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:11:35pm

Republican attacks Glenn Greenwald for NSA reporting: ‘He doesn’t have a clue’

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-MI) said whoever leaked information about the U.S. National Security Agency’s telephone surveillance program should be prosecuted.

Near the end of an interview on ABC’s This Week, the congressman also attacked the person who first reported the story: Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald.

“I absolutely believe that someone did not have authorization to release this information,” Rogers said. “And why that’s so important, George, is because they didn’t have all of the information. I know your reporter that you interviewed, Greenwald, says that he’s got it all and now is an expert on the program. He doesn’t have a clue how this thing works. Nether did the person who released just enough information to literally be dangerous.”

42 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:11:40pm
43 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:12:44pm

re: #42 jaunte

lololololololol

And there it is! It’s not irony, but I’ll take it.

44 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:14:17pm

re: #43 erik_t

Yep. It’s not irony. It’s a punchline.

45 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:14:25pm

re: #37 jaunte

I would assume the powers that be in the PRC have a workaround process for anything that really bothers them in Hong Kong.

It’s not nearly that simple, no. It’s a very, very very complex place. It makes shitloads of money, it gives the PRC access to a lot of stuff they didn’t have before, it has a lot of high-tech, and the PRC now is not the PRC of yesteryear. They are far more corporatist than their predecessors. Hong Kong may be the model that the PRC will move towards eventually. We can hope. Edit: Apparently their press freedoms have been getting sucker-punched for the past few years, so I’m a little out of date. The PRC has also just been directly buying media sources.

If they were to move significantly against Hong Kong, they know what they get— massive civil unrest, disorder, and, if this were to go on for any length of time, the collapse of the economy there. And then there are the Triads, who are one of the main sources of stolen IP for the Chinese government, and who are based out of Hong Kong.

Really, it’s a fascinating place and it’s cool to look into, but it really defies any easy characterization.

46 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:15:24pm

Censorship in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia

In 2011, Hong Kong Journalists Association Chairwoman Mak Yin-ting (Chinese: 麥燕庭) commented on growing business ties between Beijing and media owners, asserting that “Now, more than half of Hong Kong media bosses or high media management have been absorbed by the Communist government… They may consider whether reporting on some issues will affect the relationship between their bosses and the government.”[7][8] That year, Hong Kong’s ranking on the Press Freedom Index published annually by Reporters Without Borders dropped twenty places to 54th place. In a report published alongside the index, it was noted that “arrests, assaults and harassment worsened working conditions for journalists [in Hong Kong] to an extent not seen previously, a sign of a worrying change in government policy.”

47 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:15:56pm

re: #42 jaunte

See, this is what makes me think this guy is a Libertarian true believer: he chose Hong Kong for symbolism, not for practical value.

48 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:16:29pm

re: #42 jaunte

Youtube Video

49 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:17:20pm

re: #47 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Has he said why he didn’t go directly to Iceland?

50 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:18:22pm
51 BigPapa  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:18:47pm

Speaking of which, my Buffalo Terastation just took a big stinky. It gave me disk errors but I’m thinking of trashing the whole thing, and not using Novastor as my backup SW.

Novastor was infuriating.

Recommend?

52 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:19:15pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

Oh man, I hadn’t realized their press freedoms had dropped so far. And this is happening at the same time that China is corporatizing. The Chinese government is buying up media companies left and right, but I hadn’t realized they’d grabbed half.

Well, that makes his symbolism a little more deranged, then.

53 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:19:17pm

I hear North Korea is pretty accommodating this time of year.

54 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:23:14pm

Now I am curious. What powers does the President of Turkey have?

Can he dismiss a Prime Minister? Cause a Vote of No Confidence? Anything?

55 Randall Gross  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:23:21pm

While Hong Kong is still outside the Great firewall of China, it’s only a matter of time before that changes.

56 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:25:16pm

re: #55 Randall Gross

If there is one thing the PRC is good at, it is weaseling their way around agreements, and breaking International Agreements.

57 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:27:54pm

Sounds kooky.

58 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:28:35pm

re: #35 bratwurst

Greenwald indulging his taste for hyperbole in the latest piece:

Snowden will go down in history as one of America’s most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning.

So Glenn is not only reporting this story, he is already authoring history books about it!

I literally stopped reading the piece at that exact sentence and had to throw up in my mouth a little at so much grandiose bullshit being packed into so few words.

No other statement could have made it clearer that the whole chain of “revelations” has been primarily about Glenn Greenwald, his ego and his reputation, and not about our privacy or security.

59 Mattand  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:28:41pm

re: #17 erik_t

Frankly, what Snowden should really go to jail for is those atrocious made-up Powerpoint slides.

Hell, I’d like to use of PowerPoint in general criminalized. That program is the tool of the Devil.

60 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:28:45pm

He sounds about a tin foil hat away from a sandwich board.

He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

61 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:29:06pm
62 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:29:22pm
63 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:30:07pm

re: #36 blueraven

I guess the CIA forced that liquor down his throat and placed him behind the wheel.

Of course they did! Haven’t you seen that famous documentary about intelligence techniques, North By Northwest?

64 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:30:29pm

re: #54 ProTARDISLiberal

Erdogan is getting kind of weird and freaky, but I don’t think there’s anything that can be pushed through the Grand Assembly right now. It was within his power to wind this down calmly but he keeps racheting it up.

I’d be shocked if the party isn’t losing popularity over this, because these are the actions of a leader who has hit his limit.

65 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:30:40pm

The more I hear Greenwald, the more he sounds like Barrett Brown.

66 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:31:27pm

re: #42 jaunte

Hahahaha. Awesome.

67 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:31:46pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

The more I hear Greenwald, the more he sounds like Barrett Brown.

The more of him I hear, the more convinced I become that this is less journalism and more activism on his part. That the Guardian is playing party to it is just disgusting.

68 Mattand  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:33:23pm

re: #61 Gus

69 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:34:03pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

The more of him I hear, the more convinced I become that this is less journalism and more activism on his part. That the Guardian is playing party to it is just disgusting.

Activist journalism doesn’t really bother me, as long as the writer flies his true colors. It’s pretty much the norm for American history.

70 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:34:05pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

The more I hear Greenwald, the more he sounds like Barrett Brown.

Exactly…but now these “activist” can hide behind the protections for “journalism”. We are all journalists now.

71 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:34:15pm

re: #64 dragonath

Thing here is, a fellow party member, Abdullah Gul, who is President of Turkey, is criticizing Erdogan’s BS. I would have to hope that has some possibility of helping fix this.

72 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:34:19pm

When a guy who has been in the US intelligence world for a decade is stuffing pillows under his door and putting a hood over his head as anti surveillance measures, it makes me wonder…

73 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:34:52pm
74 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:35:18pm

“He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping.”

Derp. They can’t be serious.

75 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:35:24pm

re: #72 Amory Blaine

When a guy who has been in the US intelligence world for a decade is stuffing pillows under his door and putting a hood over his head as anti surveillance measures, it makes me wonder…

Just how much of whatever it is he’s on that he’s taking at a time?

76 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:35:27pm

re: #68 Mattand

An improvement of 15 places is a good thing.

Still disappointed. Granted, me being a Social Democrat, I want us to be right along side Scandinavia.

77 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:35:43pm

Watergate is opening franchises!

78 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:35:44pm

re: #68 Mattand

WE’RE #32! USA! USA!

79 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:36:00pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

The Guardian has done it’s share of stupid stunts but they lost a lot of credibility on this one. It almost makes the work they did on the News Corp spying row look illegitimate.

80 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:37:01pm

Umm, wait a second here…

nytimes.com

The leak, he said, came from “a reader of mine” who was comfortable working with him. The source, Mr. Greenwald said, “knew the views that I had and had an expectation of how I would display them.”

And on the eve of Pres. Obama’s China summit:

guardian.co.uk

Obama orders US to draw up overseas target list for cyber-attacks

by Glenn Greenwald

The directive’s publication comes as the president plans to confront his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping at a summit in California on Friday over alleged Chinese attacks on western targets.

Even before the publication of the directive, Beijing had hit back against US criticism, with a senior official claiming to have “mountains of data” on American cyber-attacks he claimed were every bit as serious as those China was accused of having carried out against the US.

An intelligence source with extensive knowledge of the National Security Agency’s systems told the Guardian the US complaints again China were hypocritical, because America had participated in offensive cyber operations and widespread hacking - breaking into foreign computer systems to mine information.

Provided anonymity to speak critically about classified practices, the source said: “We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world.”

The US likes to haul China before the international court of public opinion for “doing what we do every day”, the source added.

And:

guardian.co.uk

On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.

81 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:37:18pm

re: #72 Amory Blaine

When a guy who has been in the US intelligence world for a decade is stuffing pillows under his door and putting a hood over his head as anti surveillance measures, it makes me wonder…

Treadstone!

82 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:37:23pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

God this sounds like the people I knew back in the 80’s who were doing way too much coke. This whole thing is just getting really beyond weird.

83 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:38:22pm

re: #72 Amory Blaine

When a guy who has been in the US intelligence world for a decade is stuffing pillows under his door and putting a hood over his head as anti surveillance measures, it makes me wonder…

Josh Foust is raising a lot of eyebrows at Snowden’s story in general… a lot of it doesn’t seem to be adding up, things like the salary he claims to have been making at BoozAllen being wildly off what it should be, etc.

84 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:38:35pm

re: #78 Kragar

WE’RE #32! USA! USA!

Well. I also take into account some anti-American bias from groups like this. Maybe it’s just me I don’t know.

85 Occam's Guillotine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:38:45pm

Lessee, “Al Guardian” and Russia Today are now the right wing’s favorite media sources? Ordinary Americans can’t buy ammunition because RWNJs are hoarding it for an expected battle with the police and the US military? The right’s newest hero gets major martyr cookies by fleeing to RED FUCKING CHINA?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE?

We now know what the looney right really is: a commie false flag operation on an undreamed of scale.

86 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:38:56pm

re: #73 Lidane

87 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:42:16pm

re: #83 AntonSirius

Josh Foust is raising a lot of eyebrows at Snowden’s story in general… a lot of it doesn’t seem to be adding up, things like the salary he claims to have been making at BoozAllen being wildly off what it should be, etc.

88 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:42:28pm

Por ejemplo.

The USA ranks 32 and Poland ranks 22. Well, here’s some more on Poland:

Poland has instituted freedom of press since the fall of communism. However, public TV and radio are still politically controlled, via a state regulatory body called Krajowa Rada Radiofonii i Telewizji (The National Radio and Television Committee), which is similar to CRTC in Canada.

It is said that both public and private media are not impartial, and used as means for political propaganda. Various irregularities have been exposed during the investigation by a special parliamentary committee into the Lew Rywin affair.

89 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:42:46pm

It’s pretty sad that at this point the UK’s only reliable national newspaper (The Independent) is owned by a Russian Oligarch.

90 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:44:38pm

I don’t typically think of Hong Kong as a place that has a “spurted commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.”

91 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:45:04pm

So Poland has these great no censorship laws and documents. The punch line is the media is largely owned and controlled by the state.

92 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:45:40pm

I block the door with sigint pillows, but room service keeps getting in.

93 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:46:35pm

“Listening devices are in the espionage aisle sir. Right next to the goose down pillows.”

94 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:46:36pm

re: #87 AntonSirius

He was claiming a $200k salary at BoozAllen? As if. I knew people from there in grad school. You weren’t getting anywhere near that salary level without a degree or without a shitload of certifications after your name.

95 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:47:36pm

Oh and Poland has these draconian blasphemy laws. But yeah, they rank above the USA in press freedom. Whatever. :D

96 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:48:20pm

re: #94 Lidane

He was claiming a $200k salary at BoozAllen? As if. I knew people from there in grad school. You weren’t getting anywhere near that salary level without a degree or without a shitload of certifications after your name.

And he’s claiming that salary without a high school diploma.

97 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:48:30pm

re: #95 Gus

Oh and Poland has these draconian blasphemy laws. But yeah, they rank above the USA in press freedom. Whatever. :D

Yeah it’s my understanding that Poland like many countries that are still very religious have laws like that.

98 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:48:31pm

Because a master at espionage realizes you can avoid all forms of surveillance with pillows and hoods.

99 Randall Gross  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:49:05pm

In other news - Nightwish is turning their rockestral concept album “Imaginarium” into a movie — the trailer:

Youtube Video

100 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:49:30pm

re: #98 Kragar

Because a master at espionage realizes you can avoid all forms of surveillance with pillows and hoods.

Works all the time. Didn’t you see the Bourne movies?

//

101 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:49:56pm

re: #94 Lidane

He was claiming a $200k salary at BoozAllen? As if. I knew people from there in grad school. You weren’t getting anywhere near that salary level without a degree or without a shitload of certifications after your name.

I’m also wondering about Snowden’s claim that he could wiretap anybody, including the President. If he knew he was going to be leaking to Greenwald, why wouldn’t he then wiretap someone important just to prove his point, and leak the wiretap? Why bother with all the PowerPoint crap?

102 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:50:09pm

“What is the target saying 007?”

“I can’t say Sir, he’s got a pillow.”

“DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!”

103 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:50:54pm
104 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:51:06pm
105 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:51:07pm

re: #96 Targetpractice

And he’s claiming that salary without a high school diploma.

Then he’s absolutely full of shit. Not a chance. Not with those guys, and definitely not at the high level he’s claiming.

Yeah, you might have IT guys without college degrees earning six figures there, but that’s where the aforementioned shitload of professional certifications after your name comes in handy. Somebody without a GED? Not fucking likely.

106 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:51:14pm

re: #99 Randall Gross

That’s been the plan since the album came out though.

107 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:06pm

“Willing to accept the consequences.” By fleeing the country.

Ahyup.

108 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:15pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

“Willing to accept the consequences”? He hauled ass to Hong Kong before the first story hit the air.

109 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:18pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

Willing to accept the consequences? Yeah that’s why he’s in Hong Kong……

110 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:43pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

111 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:45pm

Glenn Beck approved. *double stamp*

112 Occam's Guillotine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:52:46pm

I’ve been analyzing the strategic balance in that part of the world. With 20% or so of the world’s population, China hardly needs allies but they do have some, the most devoted and reliable being Pakistan, North Korea, and Walmart.

113 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:53:18pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald: The new Glenn Gary Glenn Ross

114 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:53:48pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

115 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:53:58pm

re: #105 Lidane

Then he’s absolutely full of shit. Not a chance. Not with those guys, and definitely not at the high level he’s claiming.

Yeah, you might have IT guys without college degrees earning six figures there, but that’s where the aforementioned shitload of professional certifications after your name comes in handy. Somebody without a GED? Not fucking likely.

‘course, it gets better in that he’s claiming the leaks are on moral grounds. Call me crazy, but if one joins the CIA/NSA, don’t you pretty much go into knowing that there’s going to be some morally questionable shit going on?

116 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:53:58pm

re: #103 Charles Johnson

117 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:55:15pm

Horrifying.

118 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:55:31pm
119 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:55:52pm

re: #80 simoom

So anti-secrecy/surveillance advocate Glenn Greenwald aided Snowden in leaking and spinning that cyber-taskforce order at a time and in a way chosen to maximize its value to the Chinese during their U.S. / China summit. All the while Snowden is off in China with a pocketful of U.S. gov’t secrets and now Greenwald is aiding Snowden in propping up China as some sort of paragon of: “a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.”

I just can’t quite believe how far Greenwald has jumped the shark with this one.

120 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:56:21pm

Link

Whistle-blowers are protected.

121 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:56:24pm
122 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:57:02pm

Sucks to be this guy right now:

123 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:57:21pm

re: #119 simoom

So anti-government secrecy/surveillance advocate Glenn Greenwald aided Snowden in leaking and spinning that cyber-taskforce order at a time and in a way chosen to maximize it’s value to the Chinese during their U.S. / China summit. All the while Snowden is off in China with pocketful of U.S. gov’t secrets and now Greenwald is aiding Snowden in propping up China as some sort of paragon of: “a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.”

I just can’t quite believe how far Greenwald has jumped the shark with this one.

People like that always find a way to jump the shark since it’s their livelihood. Really fleeing to a place like Hong Kong and then claiming you did so because it’s a example of free speech and free press? Rigggggggggght.

124 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:58:03pm
125 blipbloop  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:58:10pm

So they guy has some crazy, non-compartmentalized access to NSA/CIA information as well as the ability to perform amazing realtime surveillance and opts to blow the lid off the whole affair by… leaking a powerpoint presentation?

126 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:58:41pm

re: #125 blipbloop

So they guy has some crazy, non-compartmentalized access to NSA/CIA information as well as the ability to perform amazing realtime surveillance and opts to blow the lid off the whole affair by… leaking a powerpoint presentation?

Drone with office chatter and delusions of importance.

127 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:58:42pm

LinkHaunting whistle.

128 jfrentzen  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:58:52pm

Again, the LGF crowd is so overcome with disdain, overshadowing reason. An unending series of presumptive and in some cases highly emotional personal attacks on Snowden in lieu of constructive words to advance the issue. The whole tone at the site has changed remarkably this year, and how the haters are running wild here… damnant quod non intellegunt.

129 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:59:01pm

re: #124 jaunte

littlegreenfootballs.com

Hit Ojoe’s link.

130 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:59:14pm

What’s going on at Salon, Greenwald’s former haunt?

Bob Schieffer thanks his panel, and notes that he can’t figure out whether all this spying is right or wrong because he “can’t figure out what they did.” All these fancy electricity devices, whizzing about, who even knows what this dadgum hoop-de-doo is! The end.

Journalism at its finest.

131 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:00:12pm

re: #119 simoom

He jumped the shark while nuking the fridge.

132 Occam's Guillotine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:00:13pm

If this had happened during the Bush administration, the right would be out with pitchforks and torches demanding that Greenwald and Snowden be nabbed, paraded down Pennsylvania Avenue in chains, and strung up from the nearest lamppost.

They hate the black guy in the White House that much.

133 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:00:13pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

constructive words to advance the issue

Go ahead.

134 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:00:16pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

Glen Greenwald, is that you?

135 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:01:01pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

Again, the LGF crowd is so overcome with disdain, overshadowing reason. An unending series of presumptive and in some cases highly emotional personal attacks on Snowden in lieu of constructive words to advance the issue. The whole tone at the site has changed remarkably this year, and how the haters are running wild here… damnant quod non intellegunt.

Kumbaya!

136 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:01:11pm

re: #132 Occam’s Guillotine

If this had happened during the Bush administration, the right would be out with pitchforks and torches demanding that Greenwald and Snowden be nabbed, paraded down Pennsylvania Avenue in chains, and strung up from the nearest lamppost.

They hate the black guy in the White House that much.

Right, Beck and company would probably be demanding that we send military or some kind of force into Hong Kong to arrest Snowden. For the right, this is all about who is in the WH.

137 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:01:41pm

re: #98 Kragar

Because a master at espionage realizes you can avoid all forms of surveillance with pillows and hoods.

I seem to recall some chick “whistle blower” from MI5 a couple years ago who did the same sort of stuff, putting a pillow case over her head when talking to people so her lips couldn’t be read from afar, would randomly buy and throw away cell phones without even using them. really nutty stuff. I guess for some people, once they start learning all the spy craft and seeing it in action, they start to get paranoid.

138 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:01:56pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

Again, the LGF crowd is so overcome with disdain, overshadowing reason. An unending series of presumptive and in some cases highly emotional personal attacks on Snowden in lieu of constructive words to advance the issue. The whole tone at the site has changed remarkably this year, and how the haters are running wild here… damnant quod non intellegunt.

There have been constructive and substantial criticisms of Snowden’s behavior made, like Simooms, above. Instead of choosing to engage with these and argue honestly, you make a generalized, vague accusation against the site as a whole.

You’re silly.

139 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:02:01pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

Image: picard.jpg

140 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:02:11pm

re: #124 jaunte

Maybe that’s illegal music. Ha.

141 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:03:24pm

re: #125 blipbloop

So they guy has some crazy, non-compartmentalized access to NSA/CIA information as well as the ability to perform amazing realtime surveillance and opts to blow the lid off the whole affair by… leaking a powerpoint presentation?

EXACTLY. “Hmm, I can record a private phone conversation between Obama and Michelle to demonstrate the horrific reach of the NSA… naaah, this PowerPoint slide will work just as well.”

142 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:03:28pm

re: #139 Lidane

Image: picard.jpg

I think I read about Keith Ellison making that point to George Will. This stuff was just fine to the right when their guy was in the WH. Hey, what do you know, when you increase executive power, executives are going ot use it, who;’d thunk!

143 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:03:54pm

re: #141 AntonSirius

EXACTLY. “Hmm, I can record a private phone conversation between Obama and Michelle to demonstrate the horrific reach of the NSA… naaah, this PowerPoint slide will work just as well.”

That’s something I am thinking about as well.

144 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:04:31pm
145 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:04:45pm

God, how tired I’ve grown of that “I’m just trying to start a debate” bullshit over the years. Hey concern trolls, you’re being played like a fiddle and you don’t have the balls to admit it. Greenwald sold you a pile of horseshit and now, having had it revealed as such, you’re instead trying to cover for him by arguing that he was right to sell you that pile to begin with because we can now debate the composition of it.

146 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:05:08pm

re: #143 HappyWarrior

It’s the first thing you learn at the Online Espionage School of Excellence!!

147 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:05:31pm

re: #15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hong Kong is a weird place that is semi-independent. It’s relationship with the mainland is very complex, but basically it is an enormous source of wealth for the PRC and they’re loathe to fuck with it too much. Hong Kong has its own law, it is not governed by the PRC’s laws. When they recently tried to expand police powers, it triggered massive protests and the law got shut down.

Yes, but the Chinese government will surely interview him at length. Even if he doesn’t give up any further classified information they could gain a good bit of insight just from tidbits. Even the story behind the work he did that lead him to leak would have value to an intelligence agency interested in learning how the CIA operates.

At this point the CIA is certainly proceeding under the assumption that everything classified that Snowden knew about has been compromised.

148 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:05:33pm

re: #146 Amory Blaine

It’s the first thing you learn at the Online Espionage School of Excellence!!

Hah!

149 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:06:20pm

re: #144 bratwurst

It’s a bit warmer and comfortable than a yurt in Mongolia…

150 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:07:02pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

Willing to accept the consequences? Yeah that’s why he’s in Hong Kong……

As courageous as Kim Philby, that one.

/spits

151 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:07:03pm

I remember when I took international relations learning about a CIA man (forget his name) who grew disenchanted) so what did he do? He went over to the Soviets who were more or less doing some of the same stuff that he criticized the US government for. Snowden has a beef with US surveillance and press policy? And he goes to Hong Kong? Yeah something just doesn’t add up.

152 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:07:22pm

LinkMore very illegal music.

BBL

153 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:07:48pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

As courageous as Kim Philby, that one.

/spits

Yeah the Cambridge 5. Yikes.

154 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:08:35pm

re: #144 bratwurst

‘In god’s name, why Hong Kong?’ -everybody not named Edward Snowden

It will add a needed exoticism to the made-for-TV movie. Galena IL just wouldn’t draw.

155 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:09:05pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

This will be the salvation of old-fashioned letter writing, and of the c/o address.

Not to mention of the one-time cypher pad.

156 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:09:25pm

re: #154 Decatur Deb

It will add a needed exoticism to the made-for-TV movie. Galena IL just wouldn’t draw.

I’m seeing Rainn Wilson as Snowden.

157 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:10:14pm

BBL really.

158 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:10:35pm

re: #156 AntonSirius

I’m seeing Rainn Wilson as Snowden.

Snowden is seeing Sean Penn.

159 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:10:47pm

re: #139 Lidane

Image: picard.jpg

Just a few days ago, Bush’s appointees to the Supreme Court voted for expanded DNA testing, but NSA NSA NSA BIG GOVERNMENT

160 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:11:24pm

re: #159 dragonath

Just a few days ago, Bush’s appointees to the Supreme Court voted for expanded DNA testing, but NSA NSA NSA BIG GOVERNMENT

Yep all the conservative favorites on the court except Scalia voted for that.

161 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:11:36pm
162 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:11:37pm

“Yes, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets,” he said.

163 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:11:49pm

Fuck The Guardian.

164 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:12:10pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

That’s a reasonable assumption.

165 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:12:43pm

re: #162 Gus

“Yes, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets,” he said.

This guy really does seem himself as Jason Bourne, on the run from shadowy forces who could drag him into a dark ally and “disappear him” at a moment’s notice.

166 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:13:06pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but the Chinese government will surely interview him at length. Even if he doesn’t give up any further classified information they could gain a good bit of insight just from tidbits. Even the story behind the work he did that lead him to leak would have value to an intelligence agency interested in learning how the CIA operates.

At this point the CIA is certainly proceeding under the assumption that everything classified that Snowden knew about has been compromised.

He’s likely already done damage without even thinking about it:

167 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:13:28pm

re: #161 bratwurst

Only the best in pillows!

168 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:13:39pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

Yep all the conservative favorites on the court except Scalia voted for that.

Who was the 5th vote, then, if Scalia voted in the minority?

169 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:14:13pm

re: #166 AntonSirius

He’s likely already done damage without even thinking about it:

Another Julian Assange, trying to change the world by destroying the lives of people he either has never met or cares little about.

170 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:14:23pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

Who was the 5th vote, then, if Scalia voted in the minority?

Breyer.

171 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:14:46pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

Who was the 5th vote, then, if Scalia voted in the minority?

I believe it was:
Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Breyer, Kennedy in the majority
Sotomayor, Kagan, Ginsberg, and Scalia in the dissent.

172 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:15:42pm

re: #170 AntonSirius

Breyer.

Yeah, it was a strange order. A pleasant surprise by Justice Scalia and a unpleasant surprise on Justice Breyer’s part. But that case does show why while I am not a Scalia admirer, I do prefer him to Thomas.

173 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:16:06pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

Another Julian Assange, trying to change the world by destroying the lives of people he either has never met or cares little about.

The blindfolded torch bearer of Kurtz’s painting.

I’ve got to go ahead of schedule, but I’ll upding everyone who gets the reference.

174 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:16:17pm

re: #171 HappyWarrior

Didn’t we just have a decision on some Supreme Court case recently that had a really, really weird Majority and Dissent Groups?

175 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:16:53pm

Our objective media at work. They know NOTHING about this guy yet.

176 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:17:06pm

re: #165 Targetpractice

This guy really does seem himself as Jason Bourne, on the run from shadowy forces who could drag him into a dark ally and “disappear him” at a moment’s notice.

Let’s hope he doesn’t run into some bad dim sum.

177 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:17:19pm

re: #174 ProTARDISLiberal

Didn’t we just have a decision on some Supreme Court case recently that had a really, really weird Majority and Dissent Groups?

This is the one. I’d love someone with number crunching skills and enough time to go through all the cases to see the amount of times that this particular majority and dissent has occurred.

178 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:17:24pm

re: #171 HappyWarrior

I believe it was:
Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Breyer, Kennedy in the majority
Sotomayor, Kagan, Ginsberg, and Scalia in the dissent.

Yep.

A good lawyer can pitch a 4th Amendment argument in such a way that you can pretty much guarantee that Scalia will vote to limit government power.

Unfortunately, doing so also guarantees that you lose Breyer.

179 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:18:17pm

re: #175 blueraven

Our objective media at work. They know NOTHING about this guy yet.

The Guardian at this point seems invested in letting Greenwald continue his little crusade.

180 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:18:38pm

re: #178 AntonSirius

Yep.

A good lawyer can pitch a 4th Amendment argument in such a way that you can pretty much guarantee that Scalia will vote to limit government power.

Unfortunately, doing so also guarantees that you lose Breyer.

That’s unfortunate but at least it seems Kagan and Sotomayor who are both younger justices are looking good on those issues.

181 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:19:06pm

re: #177 HappyWarrior

No, I thought there was a case in the last month or so that had an odd decision grouping. Scalia was certainly on the other side of the decision, but there we others who who ended up on the unexpected sides on the decision.

182 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:20:10pm

re: #172 HappyWarrior

The law in question was also one of the few bills that had bipartisan support in this Congress. The Supreme Court’s ruling wasn’t a great one.

183 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:20:17pm

re: #181 ProTARDISLiberal

No, I thought there was a case in the last month or so that had an odd decision grouping. Scalia was certainly on the other side of the decision, but there we others who who ended up on the unexpected sides on the decision.

I thought it was this one. At least, I was surprised by Breyer’s vote.

184 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:20:29pm

re: #179 Targetpractice

The Guardian at this point seems invested in letting Greenwald continue his little crusade.

It’s a sweet deal for the Guardian. They can ride Greenwald’s sensationalism all the way to Clickthrough Nirvana, and if the story blows apart because of his shoddy journalism they’ll just point the finger at him being ‘not a real reporter’ and cut him loose.

185 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:20:52pm

Man. Our military could use more people like this.

//

186 Occam's Guillotine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:21:10pm

They’re listening in on our private phone calls. I know that because my sister in law used to work at Verizon and our president is a Muslim! We studied it in Sunday school class, when they get to 5% of the population, they bring out shahara law and start to take over!


Actual words from a Lubbock wingnut. Gee, when I was in Sunday school, we learned about stuff like Zacchaeus climbing the sycamore tree. Zaccheaeus was a corrupt tax collector, though, so there might be some kind of continuity there.

187 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:21:14pm

re: #179 Targetpractice

The Guardian at this point seems invested in letting Greenwald continue his little crusade.

Yes, but we are now seeing other outlets support this guy before all the facts are in. Ron Founier has been around a while.

en.wikipedia.org

Maybe we need a little transparency in journalism.

188 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:21:14pm

re: #185 Gus

Man. Our military could use more people like this.

//

Bradley Manning?//

189 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:22:39pm

re: #184 AntonSirius

It’s a sweet deal for the Guardian. They can ride Greenwald’s sensationalism all the way to Clickthrough Nirvana, and if the story blows apart because of his shoddy journalism they’ll just point the finger at him being ‘not a real reporter’ and cut him loose.

It will go something like this:

“When we hired a guy who is not really a journalist and seldom works with an editor, we had no idea we were getting a guy who is not really a journalist and seldom works with an editor.”

190 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:22:57pm
191 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:23:40pm

re: #190 Vicious Babushka

Another guy who would want this guy to hang if this was a Republican admin.

192 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:23:42pm

re: #190 Vicious Babushka

“We support the worthless dipshits who screw the US.”

193 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:23:43pm

re: #190 Vicious Babushka

Which goes to show that no matter how much of a shitbag one is, there are people out there that will gladly support them.

194 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:24:10pm

re: #192 Kragar

“We support the worthless dipshits who screw the US in Democratic administrations.”

Fixed for accuracy.

195 stabby  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:24:27pm

He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

The cone of silence!
Youtube Video

Not to be confused with
Youtube Video

196 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:24:35pm

re: #187 blueraven

Yes, but we are now seeing other outlets support this guy before all the facts are in. Ron Founier has been around a while.

en.wikipedia.org

Maybe we need a little transparency in journalism.

Twitter’s kind of useful in that regard. Agendas on full display.

197 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:25:31pm

Of course, if we had facebook when Robert Hannsen got exposed, we’d have facebook pages supporting him too. Facebook and twitter have not shown that people are stupid, they’ve merely exposed stupidity can now be seen globally.

198 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:26:36pm

Found it!

Missouri v. McNeely

Majority-Sotomayor, joined by Scalia, Kennedy, Ginsburg, Kagan
Concurrence-Kennedy
Concur/dissent-Roberts, Breyer, Alito
Dissent-Thomas

199 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:26:38pm

re: #195 stabby

He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

The cone of silence!
[Embedded content]

He uses the same password 2 days in a row?

Amateur.
///

200 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:29:00pm

re: #187 blueraven

Fournier has had a bee in his bonnet w/ respect to Obama since before he was elected, back when he was doing post McCain/Obama debate write-ups. MoDo has a similar dysfunction.

I agree with your general point though. As the media has shed all of their real investigative journalists they’ve become progressively more irresponsible and tabloidy. They used to spend weeks/months digging into stories like this before even thinking about publishing.

201 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:29:07pm
202 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:30:12pm

Every time I try to help around the house, my wife complains I did it wrong, but she doesn’t want to show me how to do it to please her.

The she bitches that no one helps her around the house and she’s tired all the time.

Its getting really fucking old.

203 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:31:56pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

Of course, if we had facebook when Robert Hannsen got exposed, we’d have facebook pages supporting him too. Facebook and twitter have not shown that people are stupid, they’ve merely exposed stupidity can now be seen globally.

You know that dude who perpetrated the My Lai massacre? It’s hard to believe now, but:

Many in America were outraged by Calley’s sentence; Georgia’s governor Jimmy Carter instituted “American Fighting Man’s Day” and asked Georgians to drive for a week with their lights on.[10] Indiana’s governor asked all state flags to be flown at half-staff for Calley, and Utah’s and Mississippi’s governors also disagreed with the verdict.[10]

Amazing what goons can achieve, with an agenda.

204 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #203 dragonath

You know that dude who perpetrated the My Lai massacre? It’s hard to believe now, but:

Amazing what goons can achieve, with an agenda.

I actually knew about that. Real fucked up.

205 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:34:03pm

haha

206 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:34:53pm

re: #205 Stanghazi

haha

Pissing in the cheerios and running away = Dedication

207 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:34:54pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

Of course, if we had facebook when Robert Hannsen got exposed, we’d have facebook pages supporting him too. Facebook and twitter have not shown that people are stupid, they’ve merely exposed stupidity can now be seen globally.

Actually, no, if only because Hannson admitted he’d done it for the ego boost and for the money. People don’t take that sort of person as a martyr, and Hannson’s plea deal largely foreclosed him trying to play the martyr’s role.

208 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:35:01pm

re: #205 Stanghazi

haha

If he was so dedicated to principle, he wouldn’t be hiding out in a country that executes dissidents.

209 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:35:21pm
210 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:35:40pm

I had an interview on Friday for a job in Longmont. If I get it, I will be moving up to the Denver Area, Northside.

Parents want me to go to IKEA, but I was wondering if you had any recommendations.

211 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:36:33pm

So what is the motive behind all this? Is it purely attention whoring and concern trolling? At first I thought this was just that, wanting on TV, maybe weaseling a book deal or a new job offer. Now, I’m not so sure wtf is behind this. Was it related to Obama meeting with the Chinese leadership last week? Or is it just bullshit Obama bashing?

212 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:36:54pm

re: #207 Dark_Falcon

Actually, no, if only because Hannson admitted he’d done it for the ego boost and for the money. People don’t take that sort of person as a martyr, and Hannson’s plea deal largely foreclosed him trying to play the martyr’s role.

Maybe he wasn’t the best example but my broad point here was that people will make heroes out of anyone.

213 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:37:02pm

re: #205 Stanghazi

haha

Nah. He’s a labor writer for In These Times. He means it.

Now if you excuse me I’m going to go outside and die of laughter.

214 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:37:20pm

re: #210 ProTARDISLiberal

I had an interview on Friday for a job in Longmont. If I get it, I will be moving up to the Denver Area, Northside.

Parents want me to go to IKEA, but I was wondering if you had any recommendations.

I’d advise against IKEA. I have not had good luck with their products. For storage and shelves, The Container Store is a good choice.

215 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:37:32pm

re: #209 Charles Johnson

Thing is, Charles, that this isn’t your first rodeo. You know that the people defending Greenwald and now Snowden are going to see anything short of fawning adoration as approval of the NSA and FISA. They claim that they want debate about this, but they’re doing so after they’ve already thoroughly poisoned the well.

216 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:37:41pm

re: #209 Charles Johnson

It’s clear because you believe in this thing called nuance that wingnuts of both stripes don’t.

217 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:38:02pm

re: #211 A Mom Anon

Somewhere a roomful of Chinese political operatives are laughing their asses off.

218 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:38:19pm
219 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:38:55pm

re: #210 ProTARDISLiberal

For furnishings for your apartment you mean?

220 sagehen  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:39:00pm

re: #98 Kragar

Because a master at espionage realizes you can avoid all forms of surveillance with pillows and hoods.

it works for my nephew (age 4)… if he puts his hands over his eyes, nobody can see him. And a blanket over his head keeps him safe from monsters.

221 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:39:59pm

re: #200 simoom

I agree with your general point though. As the media has shed all of their real investigative journalists they’ve become progressively more irresponsible and tabloidy. They used to spend weeks/months digging into stories like this before even thinking about publishing.

And we’re left with a useless media that doesn’t have any power or leverage outside of its political sphere.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

222 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:40:22pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Of course Moore approves of him, scam artists gotta stick together.

223 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:40:34pm
224 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:40:52pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

Of course Moore approves of him, scam artists gotta stick together.

Moore never met a guy like this he didn’t like. He’s consistent I suppose.

225 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:41:18pm

re: #224 HappyWarrior

Moore never met a guy like this he didn’t like. He’s consistent I suppose.

Consistently full of shit.

226 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:41:40pm

This story is like moron flypaper.

227 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:42:23pm

re: #202 Kragar

Every time I try to help around the house, my wife complains I did it wrong, but she doesn’t want to show me how to do it to please her.

The she bitches that no one helps her around the house and she’s tired all the time.

Its getting really fucking old.

Happens to me too.

228 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:42:41pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

Of course Moore approves of him, scam artists gotta stick together.

Yeah, the Julian Assange/Bradley Manning crowd is pretty excited about their new hero.

229 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:42:50pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

Consistently full of shit.

No argument from me. He lost me when he claimed that Clinton bombed Belgrade to “wag the dog” and then went around and endorsed the NATO commander of that war when he ran for president. I don’t hate or dislike Wesley Clark but it showed to me that Moore’s full of shit when he backed him for president.

230 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:43:05pm

re: #226 dragonath

This story is like moron flypaper.

What’s really telling is at least half, if not more, of the morons caught by the paper would have been wanting Greenwald and Snowden locked in a tiny cell at Leavenworth for the rest of their natural lives not 10 years ago.

231 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:43:20pm

re: #219 A Mom Anon

If that’s the case, IKEA might be ok for some smaller things. But you might try yard sales, larger department stores(I like Target’s Room Essentials stuff for cheap but usable and easy to assemble furniture. A desk, book case and two CD storage units have survived my 19 yr old son’s abuse for over a year now). You can also pick up kitchen stuff fairly cheap at Target on clearance (check the ends of the aisles in housewares and linens, that’s where the deals are).

232 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:43:33pm

re: #220 sagehen

it works for my nephew (age 4)… if he puts his hands over his eyes, nobody can see him. And a blanket over his head keeps him safe from monsters.

He’s going to really enjoy reading about the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal in Hitchhiker’s in about 10 years or so.

233 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:43:51pm

re: #223 simoom

This.

I’m detecting the odor of bullshit from Mr. Snowden.

234 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:44:04pm
235 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:44:07pm


236 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:44:24pm

29-Year Old NSA Whistleblower Makes Mindblowing Claims About What Kind Of Power He Had

…At one point he says: “I had full access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world.”

Earlier he claims: “Any analyst at any time can target anyone … I, sitting at my desk, certainly have the authorities to wiretap anyone — from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President.”

And around the 10:30 mark, he makes the shocking claim: ‘If I had just wanted to harm the U.S., you could shut down the surveillance system in an afternoon, but that’s not my intention.”

We eagerly await confirmation or a rejection that a 29-year old at an outside firm had the power he claims to have had…

237 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:45:03pm

It actually amazes me that this guy is only a few years older than I am.

238 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:45:08pm

And now, showing how afraid he is of the US government, Snowden has opened a Twitter account to bask in the praise.

@EJosephSnowden

239 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:45:28pm
240 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:46:16pm


Ooh, solidarity.

241 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:46:24pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Julian Assange/Bradley Manning crowd is pretty excited about their new hero.

There is too much BS about this guy. Anyone who pimps him as the new Daniel Ellsberg is going to come out looking like a doof. (Most of them won’t realize it, though.)

242 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:46:56pm

re: #236 Gus

29-Year Old NSA Whistleblower Makes Mindblowing Claims About What Kind Of Power He Had

…At one point he says: “I had full access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world.”

Okay, so he’s a hilarious bullshitting liar. I would wager a considerable amount of money that no one person on earth has access to all of that. Compartmentalized things are compartmentalized for a reason.

243 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:47:27pm

re: #236 Gus

29-Year Old NSA Whistleblower Makes Mindblowing Claims About What Kind Of Power He Had

Guy’s living in his own little James Bond fantasy. I’m also awaiting the other shoe dropping, because I’ll not be surprised to find out that this dipshit’s some gofer whose power extended as far as the Mr. Coffee and the copy machine.

244 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:47:43pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Julian Assange/Bradley Manning crowd is pretty excited about their new hero.

Like Ron Fournier?

245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:47:44pm

re: #241 Decatur Deb

His claim to be special forces seems rather tenuous.

246 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:48:22pm

re: #200 simoom

Fornier…the guy who was asked to be McCain’s campaign dude but regretfully declined to do more via WaPo? That guy?

247 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:48:49pm
248 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:49:10pm

re: #239 AntonSirius

2016!

With this kind of Alex Jones stuff all over the body politic, I’d be shocked if he didn’t run. He has this weird hold on people who should know better.

249 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:49:50pm

re: #219 A Mom Anon

Yes. Although, considering other issues, I will have to get a few technology items. Namely a Blu-Ray Player of some sort, as I have my own Blu-Ray Movies, but parents have the Blu-Ray Player.

Though, considering I want to eventually get the Final Fantasy X/Final Fantasy X-2 HD Remaster, the KH remasters, and the ephemeral Final Fantasy Versus XIII, I may just decide to just go with a PS3 in that regard. It will serve as a Blu-Ray Player.

Though, then I might have a knock-on effect on the TV. But I’ll figure that out later.

250 blipbloop  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:49:56pm

re: #236 Gus

29-Year Old NSA Whistleblower Makes Mindblowing Claims About What Kind Of Power He Had

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” etc etc. These claims are absolutely ridiculous and I can’t believe people are propping him up w/ a straight face.

251 BigPapa  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:49:57pm

What a freaking circus. Impossible to have an adult conversation when you get the Greenwalds and Becks of the world chattering their idiocy.

Snowden getting picked up would only the complete his ascent to martyrdom.

252 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:50:00pm

Hey Snowden, you wanna show your “courage”? Surrender now and take your lumps like a man. Show your kids that a real “hero” doesn’t run from justice until he’s dragged back, kicking and screaming.

253 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:50:05pm
254 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:50:28pm

re: #248 dragonath

With this kind of Alex Jones stuff all over the body politic, I’d be shocked if he didn’t run. He has this weird hold on people who should know better.

Good. Nothing like a fratricidal primary season.

255 jdoc1357  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:50:31pm

re: #128 jfrentzen

It is pretty depressing to see LGF taking this line and taking part in character assassination of the whistleblower. I often enjoy reading LGF posts skewering wingnuts and whackadoos like Geller et al, but this is sad.

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

Don’t tell us! We don’t want to know how much the government is snooping on us! The government has a right to know everything we do and we don’t have any right to know about anything they do! As it should be….

Really weird.

Hopefully this will help inspire the kind of debate Snowden hopes it will, and we can start talking about rolling back some of the post-9-11 excesses of the surveillance state. But no, we shouldn’t be having that debate. Instead we should apparently be speculating about this guy’s salary or whether he likes Ron Paul, and suggesting he’s a coward for not volunteering to spend the rest of his life in a prison cell for telling us what the government is secretly doing to all of us.

We don’t want to know you traitor! Sheesh.

256 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:51:11pm

re: #232 AntonSirius

And he’ll love the Weeping Angels right now.

Don’t Blink. Don’t Turn Away. Or you get zapped back in time.

257 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:51:17pm

re: #247 Gus

@EJosephSnowden

fake?

258 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:51:48pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

If this is distressing you so much, then take your concern troll act on the road.

259 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:51:53pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

It is pretty depressing to see LGF taking this line and taking part in character assassination of the whistleblower. I often enjoy reading LGF posts skewering wingnuts and whackadoos like Geller et al, but this is sad.

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

Don’t tell us! We don’t want to know how much the government is snooping on us! The government has a right to know everything we do and we don’t have any right to know about anything they do! As it should be….

Really weird.

Hopefully this will help inspire the kind of debate Snowden hopes it will, and we can start talking about rolling back some of the post-9-11 excesses of the surveillance state. But no, we shouldn’t be having that debate. Instead we should apparently be speculating about this guy’s salary or whether he likes Ron Paul, and suggesting he’s a coward for not volunteering to spend the rest of his life in a prison cell for telling us what the government is secretly doing to all of us.

We don’t want to know you traitor! Sheesh.

Kumbaya!

260 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:52:06pm

re: #257 blueraven

fake?

No, it’s the real thing.

261 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:52:08pm

re: #257 blueraven

fake?

Don’t know. Could very well be.

262 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:52:23pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

The phone calls is actually an entirely different thing, the Verizon deal.

Again: People are making substantial points, but you’re not engaging with them. Why not? Why not talk to people instead of making these really vague accusations?

263 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:52:29pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

Please feel free to go back under the bridge you came out from!

264 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:52:51pm

re: #227 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Happens to me too.

Happens to hubby, as well. :-D

265 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:53:05pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

It is pretty depressing to see LGF taking this line and taking part in character assassination of the whistleblower. I often enjoy reading LGF posts skewering wingnuts and whackadoos like Geller et al, but this is sad.

His claims are laughable on their face to anyone with any knowledge of how government agencies work. He’s a liar, and not a good one. The only one assassinating Snowden’s character is Snowden.

266 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:54:12pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

…This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them…

They exposed nothing that wasn’t obvious to anyone paying attention to the overreach after 9/11. That they’re doing it badly means they can take their lumps.

267 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:54:22pm
268 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:54:40pm

Sorry, but you don’t get to sell a bogus story, then when caught, excuse yourself by saying it was all about “debate.” You wanna start a debate, you put the facts on the table and you go from there. When you put bullshit on the table and then expect people to take you seriously, you make a fool of yourself and anybody who supports you.

269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:54:56pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

Also, he fled to somewhere with an extradition treaty with the US.

270 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:55:16pm
271 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:55:48pm

re: #269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Also, he fled to somewhere with an extradition treaty with the US.

Not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

272 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:55:57pm

re: #266 Decatur Deb


…This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them…

They exposed nothing that wasn’t obvious to anyone paying attention to the overreach after 9/11. That they’re doing it badly means they can take their lumps.

The Verizon thing was a slight surprise— but this isn’t the Verizon thing.

I really can’t wait for people to discover asset seizure.

273 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:56:05pm

re: #269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Also, he fled to somewhere with an extradition treaty with the US.

He’d have fled to the countries that we don’t have them, but then he couldn’t find a four-star hotel or the assurance that he wouldn’t be drug out of his bed in the middle of the night and pumped for information by the local authorities. You know, being an international man of mystery and all.

274 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:56:11pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

This should be blatantly obvious by now, but when the “whistleblower” ends up going to a place that that probably HAS a massive database on its citizens, he loses his credibility.

275 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:56:46pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

GFY

276 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:56:58pm

re: #274 dragonath

This should be blatantly obvious by now, but when the “whistleblower” ends up going to a place that that probably HAS a massive database on its citizens, he loses his credibility.

This and then having the gall to say that he went there because they value free speech and press.

277 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:57:02pm

re: #270 blueraven

OK - moving it to the “possibly fake” column.

278 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:57:25pm

re: #116 Gus

Dude.
Don’t do that again.

279 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:58:03pm

re: #273 Targetpractice

He’d have fled to the countries that we don’t have them, but then he couldn’t find a four-star hotel or the assurance that he wouldn’t be drug out of his bed in the middle of the night and pumped for information by the local authorities. You know, being an international man of mystery and all.

Don’t forget about wifi.

280 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:58:05pm

re: #270 blueraven

Any Twitter or Facebook accounts purporting to be Edward Snowden are fake.

Any person in Hong Kong purporting to be Edward Snowden is a flake.

281 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:58:37pm

re: #256 ProTARDISLiberal

Okay looking back after a few minutes, I can see that that might have been a little bit evil on my part.

282 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:59:30pm

Expecting an intelligent discussion about rolling back the 9/11 excesses is probably going to fall on deaf ears when congress can barely authorize hurricane recovery.

283 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:00:03pm

re: #248 dragonath

With this kind of Alex Jones stuff all over the body politic, I’d be shocked if he didn’t run. He has this weird hold on people who should know better.

The Dems should be so lucky.

284 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:00:26pm

re: #282 dragonath

Expecting an intelligent discussion about rolling back the 9/11 excesses is probably going to fall on deaf ears when congress can barely authorize hurricane recovery.

Could happen, if enough TPGOPs paint themselves into an outrage corner.

285 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:01:19pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

Hey Snowden, you wanna show your “courage”? Surrender now and take your lumps like a man. Show your kids that a real “hero” doesn’t run from justice until he’s dragged back, kicking and screaming.

I’ve having fun with a Beck devotee over this:

286 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:01:43pm

There’s always going to be guys like this and others who want to lionize them.

287 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:01:53pm

derp:

#IStandWithSnowden(… InChina) ///

288 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:02:35pm

re: #281 ProTARDISLiberal

I hope you get this job. You can also find inexpensive Blu-Ray players sometimes at WalMart or Best Buy. I think my husband got one for our second TV for around 125 dollars. It’s not fancy or anything but it works. I wish you all the best, I think you’ll be a lot happier on your own. Good luck and keep pushing forward.

289 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:03:03pm

re: #277 Charles Johnson

OK - moving it to the “possibly fake” column.

Greenwald seems very close to this guy. He is in Hong Kong as well. I noted this morning on Candy Crowley or one CNN program interviewing Greenwald, the feed was coming from Hong Kong, so Glenn is right there with him. I wonder if he is giving legal advice?

290 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:03:20pm

re: #285 AntonSirius

I’ve having fun with a Beck devotee over this:

Don’t you remember how Ellsberg fled to Haiphong and opened a rickshaw repair shop?

291 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:04:29pm

re: #290 Decatur Deb

Don’t you remember how Ellsberg fled to Haiphong and opened a rickshaw repair shop?

I remember when Mark Felt went to Bucharest and drank vodka with Nicolae Ceaușescu.

292 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:04:35pm

re: #202 Kragar

Every time I try to help around the house, my wife complains I did it wrong, but she doesn’t want to show me how to do it to please her.

The she bitches that no one helps her around the house and she’s tired all the time.

Its getting really fucking old.

Rub her back you lazy bum!!

293 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:04:56pm

I know the distinction is sometimes hard to make, but the Guardianistas are going to be rather disappointed when their comment threads become swamped by Breitbart level freaks. It’s going to be fun to watch.

294 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:05:37pm

re: #291 HappyWarrior

I remember when Mark Felt went to Bucharest and drank vodka with Nicolae Ceaușescu.

Hope he let Ceaucescu run the tab.

295 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:06:00pm

re: #289 blueraven

Greenwald seems very close to this guy. He is in Hong Kong as well. I noted this morning on Candy Crowley or one CNN program interviewing Greenwald, the feed was coming from Hong Kong, so Glenn is right there with him. I wonder if he is giving legal advice?

Greenwald getting busted for facilitating this guy would be a dream come true. He’s been annoying the piss out of me for years.

296 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:06:42pm

Just found this. Wish this would show up in an episode of Doctor Who.

Mirrored Sunglasses

298 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:07:10pm

re: #294 Decatur Deb

Hope he let Ceaucescu run the tab.

You’d hope so. He was a rare Communist leader getting aid from both West and East.

299 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:07:25pm

re: #248 dragonath

With this kind of Alex Jones stuff all over the body politic, I’d be shocked if he didn’t run. He has this weird hold on people who should know better.

Oh please please pretty pretty please with cherries on top!! :)

300 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:08:18pm

re: #298 HappyWarrior

You’d hope so. He was a rare Communist leader getting aid from both West and East.

Smart, but not smart enough to leave the country for health reasons.

301 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:08:23pm
302 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:08:33pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

Actually their claims go far, far beyond that, and so far they’ve offered up no proof at all to substantiate those wilder claims. That’s what we’re attacking -ludicrous, evidence-less claims that an NSA contractor could wiretap the President at will, for instance. Even the less outlandish claim that the NSA could access Google, Apple, etc’s servers at will has, at best, been cast in doubt by further investigation.

No one disputes that the NSA has a database of metadata on calls - heck, the NSA admitted as much.

303 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:09:16pm

re: #226 dragonath

This story is like moron flypaper.

Add Hannity to the mix.

304 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:10:03pm

I got moonbats to the left of me hailing Snowden as the guy they wanted Bradley Manning to be…and wingnuts to the right of me absolutely sure that this “scandal” is manufactured to let Obama void problems with the upcoming immigration reform bill in the Senate.

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.//

305 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:10:03pm

re: #301 Gus

Country First.// Do these idiots really think that Romney would have done anything different on these type issues? Seriously. But they’re really showing that the only reason for their outrage is the resident of 1600 PA Avenue.

306 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:10:40pm

Another unintentionally hilarious Hulu ad.

“The backseat. We think that it can be the most valuable real estate on earth.”

307 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:10:50pm

re: #304 Targetpractice

I got moonbats to the left of me hailing Snowden as the guy they wanted Bradley Manning to be…and wingnuts to the right of me absolutely sure that this “scandal” is manufactured to let Obama void problems with the upcoming immigration reform bill in the Senate.

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.//

And here I am stuck in the middle with you?

308 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:11:20pm

re: #304 Targetpractice

I got moonbats to the left of me hailing Snowden as the guy they wanted Bradley Manning to be…

Yeah, this is the weird bit. Why isn’t anyone taking a moment to check this guy out?

309 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:12:01pm

re: #294 Decatur Deb

Heartbreaking documentary on Romanian children

Children Underground

310 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:12:39pm

re: #308 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, this is the weird bit. Why isn’t anyone taking a moment to check this guy out?

Because he is the whiteboard upon which they flex their magic markers.

311 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:12:51pm

re: #308 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, this is the weird bit. Why isn’t anyone taking a moment to check this guy out?

‘course not, they’re taking him at face value and will likely view any revelations about him in the near future as “character assassination.”

312 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:14:11pm

re: #310 Decatur Deb

Because he is the whiteboard upon which they flex their magic markers.

FIGTH THE OLIGARHY!

313 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:14:32pm

re: #238 Charles Johnson

And now, showing how afraid he is of the US government, Snowden has opened a Twitter account to bask in the praise.

@EJosephSnowden

Is he asking for $$ yet?

314 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:14:53pm

re: #116 Gus

Gahhh, thank’s for that, toss more nightmare fuel into the tank, why don’t ya…/

315 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:15:29pm

re: #309 Amory Blaine

Heartbreaking documentary on Romanian children

Children Underground

Daughter One babysat a couple that made it to adoption in Italy. A bite sent her to a course of gamma globulin and hep C vaccine.

316 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:15:34pm

re: #311 Targetpractice

‘course not, they’re taking him at face value and will likely view any revelations about him in the near future as “character assassination.”

Pretty much. The logic will be that whistle-blowers have been smeared before ergo any information about Mr. Snowden that shows him or his credibility in more less a not s good light will be seen as a government smear job. But yeah this dude seems to have serious cred issues.

317 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:15:39pm

re: #270 blueraven

re: #277 Charles Johnson

OK - moving it to the “possibly fake” column.

Is this the real GG account? -EDIT - I’m moving too fast. Ignore. I’ll keep reading.

318 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:17:15pm
319 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:17:37pm

re: #304 Targetpractice

I got moonbats to the left of me hailing Snowden as the guy they wanted Bradley Manning to be…and wingnuts to the right of me absolutely sure that this “scandal” is manufactured to let Obama void problems with the upcoming immigration reform bill in the Senate.

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.//

The dynamics of this story are interesting. The lefties seem content to finally throw Obama under the bus for not being the anti-Bush, righties are happy that this cuts into Obama’s support base and possibly lowers his approval rating, the press is happy to promote a sensationalist story. It’s one of those rare cases where everybody seems happy.

320 sagehen  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:18:11pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Michael Moore and Glenn Beck are on the same side?

Image: flying-pigs.jpg

321 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:18:42pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

Oh, those lefties and righties. They’re such silly billies.

322 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:18:53pm

Also, how do you make it into special forces without finishing high school without so much as a GED? I’m really getting annoyed with all my liberal contacts on facebook falling for this without thinking it through.

Perhaps this is part of the motivation for this? Starting fights over bullshit? I don’t know, but I’ve about had it with this whole stupid trainwreck. Critical thinking, how the fuck does it work?

323 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:02pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

The dynamics of this story are interesting. The lefties seem content to finally throw Obama under the bus for not being the anti-Bush, righties are happy that this cuts into Obama’s support base and possibly lowers his approval rating, the press is happy to promote a sensationalist story. It’s one of those rare cases where everybody seems happy.

Yeah, I might actually find it interesting if it weren’t so obviously self-serving to all of them.

324 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:10pm

re: #320 sagehen

Michael Moore and Glenn Beck are on the same side?

Image: flying-pigs.jpg

Perhaps there will be some kind of annihilating crossing of the beams.

325 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:19pm

Moonbats to the left of me wingnuts to the right here I am

Youtube Video

326 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:36pm

The Guardian Reveals Its Source: NSA Contractor Edward Snowden, Currently in…China

1. Counterintelligence and Private Contractors: What does this episode tell us, if anything, about the impact of relying on private contractors for Intelligence Community work? More specifically, does the story expose a counterintelligence vulnerability?

2. The Globalized Fourth Estate as a Check: What if anything can the government do at this point to stem the flow of leaks from Snowden’s disclosures? Here it may matter hugely that Snowden went to the Guardian and not, say, the Times (though given the Post’s willingness to publish the PRISM story, maybe not). This reminds me of the following observations that Jack offered in his most-recent book:

WikiLeaks is a piece of a larger technologically inspired trend that is relocating the center of gravity of U.S. national security reporting outside the United States. In March 2011, many non-U.S. newspapers reported on ties between Raymond Davis, an American arrested in Pakistan for shooting two civilians, and the CIA. The New York Times had the story but temporarily withheld it because the Obama administration argued that disclosing his identity would put his life at risk. The Times hesitated for the same reason that Leonard Downie Jr. withheld the location of the secret prisons. The American press considers U.S. national security interests in the publication balance, and it sometimes self-censors out of deference to U.S. national security. “We are on the team, but we can’t be on the team,” acknowledges Seymour Hersh, articulating the tension. Non-U.S. media organizations, by contrast, give no weight to U.S. national security concerns. American journalists displayed “a willingness to work with us,” says former CIA Director Michael Hayden. But with foreign media like WikiLeaks and Al Jazeera, “it’s very, very difficult,” he adds. “Other than perhaps making use of an allied relationship, you’re kind of out of Schlitz.” The growing scrutiny of American military and intelligence operations by the technologically empowered global media, and its relative indifference to U.S. government pleas, are still further reasons why U.S. government secrets are harder than ever to keep.


The central role played by the Guardian in the unfolding Snowden story powerfully validates that view. For better or worse, the globalized Fourth Estate is playing a powerful checking function here, though also one that is in no way accountable to American voters. Such is the world we now live in.

327 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:48pm

HONG KONG, Aug. 6 — Pro-Beijing lawmakers approved legislation here today giving broad authority to the police to conduct covert surveillance, including wiretapping phones, bugging homes and offices and monitoring e-mail.

The bill passed the 60-member Legislative Council on a vote of 32 to 0 soon after pro-democracy lawmakers walked out of the chamber in protest early this morning. The Democratic Party and its allies had tried to introduce nearly 200 amendments to the bill through four days of marathon debates, but all were defeated or ruled out of order.

Ambrose S.K. Lee, the secretary for security, welcomed the legislation, saying it was necessary to fight crime. “I wish to assure the residents of Hong Kong that the law now is a good balance between effective law enforcement on the one hand and the protection of privacy on the other,” he said.

328 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:19:50pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

The dynamics of this story are interesting. The lefties seem content to finally throw Obama under the bus for not being the anti-Bush, righties are happy that this cuts into Obama’s support base and possibly lowers his approval rating, the press is happy to promote a sensationalist story. It’s one of those rare cases where everybody seems happy.

Including you?

329 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:20:08pm

re: #320 sagehen

Michael Moore and Glenn Beck are on the same side?

Image: flying-pigs.jpg

Probably. I would guess that Mondays’ pundit shows on FOX and MSNBC aren’t going to find much disagreement either. Maybe Rand Paul will finally make up with Rachael Maddow.

330 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:22:02pm
331 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:05pm
332 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:06pm

re: #322 A Mom Anon

Also, how do you make it into special forces without finishing high school without so much as a GED? I’m really getting annoyed with all my liberal contacts on facebook falling for this without thinking it through.

Perhaps this is part of the motivation for this? Starting fights over bullshit? I don’t know, but I’ve about had it with this whole stupid trainwreck. Critical thinking, how the fuck does it work?

Some people just don’t want to use common sense when they’ve got an agenda. Someone and hell it may have been here at LGF made a good point about the absurdity of birtherism, they’d want you to believe that Obama’s people went through every library’s microfiche and doctored the Honolulu newspaper notice of his birth to show he was born in Hawaii. Cracked recently pointed out the absurdity of claiming FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to happen since Germany’s pact with Japan was strictly defensive.

333 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:28pm

re: #330 Stanghazi

Site’s getting pulverized by clocks right now.

But seriously, 3 months and he’s claiming a $200K salary? The smell of bullshit is getting overpowering.

334 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:32pm

re: #323 Targetpractice

Yeah, I might actually find it interesting if it weren’t so obviously self-serving to all of them.

Everybody’s happy except the Obama administration and establishment Dems who have the burden of responsible leadership while in power. I think we might get another speech from Obama soon kinda like his drone speech. He’ll defend the program but make vague promises about transparency , oversight, maybe a new committee will look into it and issue some recommendations or something.

335 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:34pm

re: #330 Stanghazi

Like a crab fisherman.

336 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:23:38pm

Chinese state security agencies maintain very extensive operations here that have reportedly expanded considerably following the huge democracy protests that filled the streets in 2003 and 2004. The legislation approved today would theoretically cover these agencies’ activities as well, but Chinese agencies have tended to operate with considerable independence from the Hong Kong government and its institutions.

Debate over the covert surveillance bill raised a broader constitutional issue for the courts. Rita Fan, the pro-government president of the legislature, ruled that a series of opposition amendments were not permissible because of longstanding rules in the legislature barring members from introducing amendments to government-sponsored bills if the amendments would affect government revenues or spending.

Leung Kwok-hung, an independent lawmaker and the legislature’s only avowed Trotskyite, filed a legal challenge on Saturday to the legislature’s rules, contending that they limited powers granted to the legislature by the Basic Law. The executive branch of government here has been insistent on controlling public revenues and spending.

337 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:24:01pm

re: #327 Gus

Well shit.

That’s sounds like the same deal they tried to get through and was rolled back after massive protests.

I guess Hong Kong was, past tense, a bastion.

338 Timothy Watson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:24:34pm
He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

He’s so concerned about security that he has no problem using a hotel’s public Wi-Fi?

Complete whack-a-doodle.

339 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:25:07pm

re: #338 Timothy Watson

He’s so concerned about security that he has no problem using a hotel’s public Wi-Fi?

Complete whack-a-doodle.

Heh. Good point.

340 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:25:09pm

re: #330 Stanghazi


Interesting…click on the link in the tweet and it takes you to Booz Allen’s website that has a message that it’s “down for maintenance”.

341 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:25:34pm

This guy is looking more and more like an office gofer with delusion of grandeur.

342 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:25:56pm

re: #341 Targetpractice

This guy is looking more and more like an office gofer with delusion of grandeur.

He looks the part.

343 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:25:56pm

re: #332 HappyWarrior

Some people just don’t want to use common sense when they’ve got an agenda.

Some people expect presumed trusted members of the media to have done their due diligence, and if their organization finds out they’ve been had, they’ll proclaim it loudly rather than running a few unmentioned edits to the online article.

Plenty of blame to go around here.

344 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:26:14pm

I expect Booz Allen is ecstatic to be linked to this shit stain.

345 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:26:24pm

re: #343 erik_t

Some people expect presumed trusted members of the media to have done their due diligence, and if their organization finds out they’ve been had, they’ll proclaim it loudly rather than running a few unmentioned edits to the online article.

There is that too, yes.

346 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:27:16pm

re: #341 Targetpractice

This guy is looking more and more like an office gofer with delusion of grandeur.

“I AM NOT A NUMBER! I’M A FREE MAN!”

“Sit down and shut up Ed.”

“…Okay.”

347 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:28:50pm
348 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:29:08pm

re: #255 jdoc1357

It is pretty depressing to see LGF taking this line and taking part in character assassination of the whistleblower. I often enjoy reading LGF posts skewering wingnuts and whackadoos like Geller et al, but this is sad.

This guy Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the fact that the government is building a massive database filled with info on all our phone calls and such, and LGF is attacking them.

Don’t tell us! We don’t want to know how much the government is snooping on us! The government has a right to know everything we do and we don’t have any right to know about anything they do! As it should be….

Really weird.

Hopefully this will help inspire the kind of debate Snowden hopes it will, and we can start talking about rolling back some of the post-9-11 excesses of the surveillance state. But no, we shouldn’t be having that debate. Instead we should apparently be speculating about this guy’s salary or whether he likes Ron Paul, and suggesting he’s a coward for not volunteering to spend the rest of his life in a prison cell for telling us what the government is secretly doing to all of us.

We don’t want to know you traitor! Sheesh.

We’re attacking the dissemination of unchecked and likely false information because that intellectual dishonesty does nothing more than encourage fear mongering.

Read for comprehension.

349 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:29:30pm

Ed Snowden: The new Number Two.

350 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:29:48pm

Thing is, the more I look at this, the more I wonder if Greenwald is using Snowden to take the attention off himself. Sounds weird, I know, but Snowden doesn’t exactly strike me as the cunning guy who secretly stole such highly classified info and got it out the front door without loudly screaming to folks in the parking lot “I’m sneaking off with top-level shit! Somebody better stop me!”

351 piratedan  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:31:35pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

willingness to face the consequences = fleeing the country…

good to know, let’s hope that all of the R’s follow that example.

352 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:32:10pm

re: #343 erik_t

Some people expect presumed trusted members of the media to have done their due diligence, and if their organization finds out they’ve been had, they’ll proclaim it loudly rather than running a few unmentioned edits to the online article.

Plenty of blame to go around here.

Somewhere between Edward R. Morrow and Bernstein/Woodward, we picked up the idea that journalists were the highpriests of Truth. They are largely guys that do a job for a boss who gives them a paycheck. It’s our fault if we rate them higher than auto transmission repairmen.

353 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:32:28pm

re: #308 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, this is the weird bit. Why isn’t anyone taking a moment to check this guy out?

As soon as they will, the dreams and illusions will probably start falling apart along with him…

And while I’ve always been against the Patriot Act and its provisions (unconstitutional and unprofessional - better ways to do things and even Israel never needed to go so far for crying out loud), there’s so much about this that completely and utterly reeks…

354 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:33:25pm

re: #333 Targetpractice

Site’s getting pulverized by clocks right now.

But seriously, 3 months and he’s claiming a $200K salary? The smell of bullshit is getting overpowering.

He’s barely out of what would be a probationary period in a normal job, and he gets the keys to all the cool wiretapping toys?

355 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:33:40pm

Chapter: II. Surveillance policy

In August 2006, the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance was passed to regulate the interception of communications and surveillance activities by law enforcement agencies.1 The law creates an oversight board, chaired by a judge, who may inspect and review law enforcement interception requests.

Before the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance came into force, the Telecommunications Ordinance2 and the Post Office Ordinance3 regulated the interception of communications. At that time, wiretapping required authorisation from the highest levels of government, but a court-issued warrant was not required. The Hong Kong government refused to reveal how often the Chief Executive had used his powers to authorise telephone wiretaps and interception of private mail.4 In 1999, an unofficial report estimated that the HKSAR government intercepted more than 100 conversations of private individuals per day.5

Hong Kong’s anti-terrorism efforts since September 11, 2001, have largely focused on improved financial tracking.6 The United Nations (Anti-Terrorism Measures) Ordinance was enacted in July 2002, and amended in 2004, to give full measures to the Unites Nations Security Council Resolution 1372.7 It allowed the government to unilaterally declare a person a terrorist, limiting the courts to serving as an appeal channel. However, legislators have said the government should go through the courts first as a way to minimise the risk that people will be wrongly labelled terrorists.

In September 2002, the Hong Kong Government signed a declaration with the United States Customs Service to facilitate the exchange of airline passenger information and increase surveillance of shipping traffic.8 The government has also signed similar agreements with other South-East Asian nations.

356 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:34:31pm

Double secret probation.

357 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:34:51pm

re: #301 Gus

A representative sampling of reactions to the Snowden reveal on Weasel Zippers:

Jerry S. • 3 hours ago −
“Snowden will go down in history as one of America’s most consequential
whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning.”

There’s NO COMPARISON AT ALL between this guy and Manning. While Snowden revealed to us how our government is actively eavesdropping on law-abiding citizens, the traitor Manning revealed sensitive military info to our enemies.
18 upvotes

Warren Teed Jerry S. • 3 hours ago −
Manning is a traitor,Snowden is a patriot.
15 up 1 down

Drury • 3 hours ago −
Hero and Patriot. Has my full support. More like him, please!

Oh, and F.U., NSA spys!
10 up 1 down

moonsbreath • 3 hours ago −
God bless him! I’m hoping that the American people can put down their Ipad’s and cell phones and actually pay attention to what this young man has revealed. …
6 up 1 down

358 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:34:59pm

re: #352 Decatur Deb

Somewhere between Edward R. Morrow and Bernstein/Woodward, we picked up the idea that journalists were the highpriests of Truth. They are largely guys that do a job for a boss who gives them a paycheck. It’s our fault if we rate them higher than auto transmission repairmen.

There seems to be correlation between journalists that only cover one topic, and journalists who suck at their jobs because they’re too afraid to lose access and whatnot.

359 StephenMeansMe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:35:13pm

re: #352 Decatur Deb

It wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t assume they were always dispassionate and objective.

360 StephenMeansMe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:35:55pm

re: #357 simoom

So, “government” is the root of all evil, while “military” is above all reproach? Uh, okay…

361 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:36:59pm

re: #357 simoom

Shorter: it don’t mean a thing unless you can bring Obama down with it.

362 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:38:24pm

re: #359 StephenMeansMe

It wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t assume they were always dispassionate and objective.

Yet we never ask to see the process by which they become d/o, or the forces that would maintain it.

363 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:38:30pm

re: #361 dragonath

Shorter: it don’t mean a thing unless you you can bring Obama down with it.

Exactly.

Puleeze, Beck, Hannity and Michael Moore on the same side?

364 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:38:37pm

re: #361 dragonath

Shorter: it don’t mean a thing unless you you can bring Obama down with it.

Pretty much.

365 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:39:04pm

If shitbird had done this shit 10 years ago, the wingnuts would be saying we need to send a SEAL team into Hong Kong to get this turd.

366 dragonath  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:39:56pm

re: #360 StephenMeansMe

So, “government” is the root of all evil, while “military” is above all reproach? Uh, okay…

The military. It’s government with guns!

367 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:40:01pm

They need a scandal to keep the presses rolling during the often slow summer news cycle.

368 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:40:53pm

re: #354 AntonSirius

He’s barely out of what would be a probationary period in a normal job, and he gets the keys to all the cool wiretapping toys?

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Yeah, totally believable.////

369 StephenMeansMe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:41:11pm

re: #366 dragonath

Oh, they have guns? That makes them True Patriots.

//

370 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:41:52pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

USA!!!USA!!!USA!!!

371 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:42:27pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Yeah, totally believable.////

Wait he’s claiming he’s got ten years in the intel community? I can tell you it’s tough enough as is to get a government job with a BA. I imagine it would be practically impossible to get one being a dropout. The guy’s story has so many holes in it.

372 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:42:47pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Character assassin!

373 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:43:34pm

re: #350 Targetpractice

Thing is, the more I look at this, the more I wonder if Greenwald is using Snowden to take the attention off himself. Sounds weird, I know, but Snowden doesn’t exactly strike me as the cunning guy who secretly stole such highly classified info and got it out the front door without loudly screaming to folks in the parking lot “I’m sneaking off with top-level shit! Somebody better stop me!”

In other words, Rosen/Jin-Woo Kim all over again but moreso?

374 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:45:40pm

Glenn Greenwald is deciding what’s in our national security interests

“…The level of harm this particular leak might/might not have caused is not self-evident to me. But of all people on the planet I want to see making decisions about something like that, Glenn Greenwald is near the bottom of my list.”

375 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:45:47pm

re: #353 Archangelus

As soon as they will, the dreams and illusions will probably start falling apart along with him…

And while I’ve always been against the Patriot Act and its provisions (unconstitutional and unprofessional - better ways to do things and even Israel never needed to go so far for crying out loud), there’s so much about this that completely and utterly reeks…

Any true conspiracy theorist should right about now be wondering if the whole thing is a false flag operation to discredit Greenwald and head off any attempt to de-fang the Patriot Act…

376 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:47:21pm

hmmm…
One guess who owns Booz Allen Hamilton…

377 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:48:07pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Yeah, totally believable.////

He broke both legs in training so he’s not an SF vet. He didn’t make it.

378 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:48:38pm

Everybody knows a guy like this. A legend in their own minds.

379 Lancelot Link  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:49:09pm
“they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”

Nobel peace prize-winning dissident Liu Xiaobo and his family laugh bitterly from their jail cells.

380 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:49:47pm

re: #376 Backwoods_Sleuth

hmmm…
One guess who owns Booz Allen Hamilton…

LOLZ

Booz Allen Hamilton is majority owned by private equity firm The Carlyle Group

Michael Moore will be ecstatic to hear this.

381 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:50:21pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Yeah, totally believable.////

Oh, and it’s not a facemask, it’s a red hood. Like Little Red Riding Hood.

382 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:52:55pm

re: #380 AntonSirius

LOLZ

Michael Moore will be ecstatic to hear this.

I know! bwahahaaaa!
and then THIS:

Carlyle Wins Big with Booz Allen’s $1B Payout

383 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:53:10pm

re: #371 HappyWarrior

Wait he’s claiming he’s got ten years in the intel community? I can tell you it’s tough enough as is to get a government job with a BA. I imagine it would be practically impossible to get one being a dropout. The guy’s story has so many holes in it.

He has a GED and Booz Allen admitted that he’s a recently hired employee.

384 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:53:28pm

re: #357 simoom

A representative sampling of reactions to the Snowden reveal on …

Fox Nation:

ridgewolf
1 hour ago
Give him a medal. An American who stood up for the rest of us. Good going. More whistleblowers …..COME FOREWARD.


3 likes

—-

Thankyouvets
1 hour ago

NSA — take a look at this young man. THAT is the face of patriotism.

6 likes

—-

restoreamerica5
1 hour ago
He says he has more documents. I wonder what he knows about Benghazi?

7 likes

—-

Charades
1 hour ago
The face of a patriot and someone worth rallying behind

Give us liberty or give us death

6 likes

—-

1776dejavu
1 hour ago
A TRUE PATRIOTIC AMERICAN

9 likes

—-

oldoldtimer
1 hour ago
Through out history there have been men and women who put honor, integrity, morals and ethics above all else when it comes to their country. We call them……HEROS!

6 likes

—-

wirskrued
1 hour ago
If the Patriot Act were used as it was meant to be used, I would have no problem. However This administration has perverted it into a tool to enslave us all eventually. It is only a matter of time before the media backs down and there is no more talk of this and the other crimes of treason that the progressives have perpetrated on this country. In time, even this forum will be taken down. I for one am enjoying me freedom such as it is while I still have it as it will be gone in the foreseeable future.

6 likes

—-

Mr.Conservative
1 hour ago
Someone needs to set up a defense fund for Mr. Snowden because you know Obama will try to prosecute him.

He dared to make the emperor look bad.

10 likes

—-

vortmax 1 hour ago
Hero

7 likes

—-

Thankyouvets
1 hour ago
Proud of you, guy. You have done this country a service. You have kept your honor.

6 like

—-

Mr.Conservative
1 hour ago
Snowden is a patriotic hero.

5 likes

385 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:53:53pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

The dynamics of this story are interesting. The lefties seem content to finally throw Obama under the bus for not being the anti-Bush, righties are happy that this cuts into Obama’s support base and possibly lowers his approval rating, the press is happy to promote a sensationalist story. It’s one of those rare cases where everybody seems happy.

Nonsense. Support for Snowden is FAR from universal on the left, and in fact there are a lot of liberals who are not buying the “hero” crap.

386 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:54:21pm

re: #341 Targetpractice

This guy is looking more and more like an office gofer with delusion of grandeur.

This - so very much.
Reminds me a lot of a situation with someone who was once in my division eons ago, way before my (brief) time -a low level nutjob who apparently tried to use a handful of obsolete info along with credentials to portray himself at one point as a top person involved in super secret stuff when he wasn’t by a long shot.

re: #368 Targetpractice

29-yr old high school dropout is also an Army SF vet with 10 years in the intel community and, after only 3 months, was drawing a six-figure salary as a techie while having access to high-level intel information. Yet he thinks pillows under the door and a face mask will protect him from eavesdropping as he’s logging onto a hotel public wifi signal.

Yeah, totally believable.////

If the Army vet and 10 years in the Int’ community part was somehow valid - which, sorry, no freakin’ way - then I could understand the high salary techie part. I’ve heard of crazier things. Yet, again - no freakin’ way.

387 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:54:24pm

re: #383 goddamnedfrank

He has a GED and Booz Allen admitted that he’s a recently hired employee.

Where did he get his clearances? TS background check takes some time.

388 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:54:58pm

re: #384 simoom

Fox Nation:

And 10 years ago, they’d have wanted him strung up from the nearest lamppost. Amazing what electing a Democrat can do for people’s views on national security.

389 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:55:09pm

re: #380 AntonSirius

LOLZ

Michael Moore will be ecstatic to hear this.

Even more.

“Carlyle also advised in transactions including a $500 million investment by Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal in Citigroup in 1991.”

That’s a major stock holder of News Corp.

390 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:55:11pm

re: #387 Decatur Deb

Where did he get his clearances? TS background check takes some time.

A lot of this stuff wouldn’t be TS at all.

391 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:55:35pm

re: #384 simoom

Fox Nation:

Ugh. Words defy me…

392 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:55:40pm

re: #383 goddamnedfrank

He has a GED and Booz Allen admitted that he’s a recently hired employee.

Ah fair enough but I was referring to him apparently claiming to be in intel for ten years.

393 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:56:36pm

re: #387 Decatur Deb

Where did he get his clearances? TS background check takes some time.

A LOT of time, even with all the changes and efforts that have been done over the years to shorten the process so as to avoid shortages in crucially-needed positions..

394 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:56:53pm

It will be interesting to see how this ‘source’ plays out. Right now the conspiracy theorists are lapping it up as vindication for their past fantasies.

395 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:56:54pm

re: #390 McSpiff

A lot of this stuff wouldn’t be TS at all.

The Prism PP presentation was, if anything about this is to be believed.

396 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:57:13pm
397 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:57:45pm

re: #388 Targetpractice

And 10 years ago, they’d have wanted him strung up from the nearest lamppost. Amazing what electing a Democrat can do for people’s views on national security.

Yep. Seriously.

398 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:58:10pm

re: #395 Decatur Deb

The Prism PP presentation was, if anything about this is to be believed.

Fair enough, that was so inaccurate im taking it all with a grain of salt.

EDIT: So was the Verizon order. Ignore me then :-)

399 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:59:27pm
400 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:59:53pm

re: #399 Gus

Yeah you don’t say.

401 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:00:21pm

re: #399 Gus

That can’t be. Killgore has assured me ‘the lefties’ are happy and eating this up.

402 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:00:24pm

Booz Allen Statement on Reports of Leaked Information

Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, has been an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii. News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter.

403 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:00:39pm

It would be nice if people didn’t jump to conclusions just because a story fits into their ideology.

404 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:00:47pm

re: #387 Decatur Deb

Where did he get his clearances? TS background check takes some time.

I don’t know, but Booz Allen admitted he’s an employee of theirs. He could be embellishing / lying about a lot of things, for instance the salary still sounds really high, but the story about him being a dropout has been corrected to his having a GED. If he was tested and found to have a real aptitude for digital security systems then it really is plausible that he would be recruited by such a contractor. Also, nobody knows what kind of technical certificates he holds, they just assume it can’t be any because they erroneously think he’s a high school dropout, which is a complete non-sequitor anyways. The technical sector has a history of not standing on ceremony, if you show up and demonstrate you’ve got chops a lot of people will hire you.

405 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:01:42pm

re: #404 goddamnedfrank

And you can be a great sysadmin while having absolutely no clue about anything else in the world, too.

406 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:02:15pm

re: #399 Gus

I’m curious as to who exactly is paying his bills right now. He hauled ass to HK and is living in a posh hotel on his own dime? I’m sure his family back home is gladly watching their bank account empty out so that he can live the high life on the run.

407 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:03:12pm

re: #406 Targetpractice

I’m curious as to who exactly is paying his bills right now. He hauled ass to HK and is living in a posh hotel on his own dime? I’m sure his family back home is gladly watching their bank account empty out so that he can live the high life on the run.

The Guardian or Greenroom.

408 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:03:45pm

re: #407 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

The Guardian or Greenroom.

That seems like the most likely situation, which seems like grounds for aiding and abetting charges.

409 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:04:32pm

re: #404 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know, but Booz Allen admitted he’s an employee of theirs. He could be embellishing / lying about a lot of things, for instance the salary still sounds really high, but the story about him being a dropout has been corrected to his having a GED. If he was tested and found to have a real aptitude for digital security systems then it really is plausible that he would be recruited by such a contractor. Also, nobody knows what kind of technical certificates he holds, they just assume it can’t be any because they erroneously think he’s a high school dropout, which is a complete non-sequitor anyways. The technical sector has a history of not standing on ceremony, if you show up and demonstrate you’ve got chops a lot of people will hire you.

The only way his timeline makes any sense is if he was cleared before working for Booz Allen, and had his clearance reviewed when he hired on. That would mean he had a decent job or military slot. Remembering Manning was a diddybopper busted down to PFC.

410 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:05:42pm
411 Archangelus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:05:43pm

re: #408 Targetpractice

That seems like the most likely situation, which seems like grounds for aiding and abetting charges.

If he’s wise, then he’d plan in advance and wouldn’t be relying on the G’s for support, for precisely that reason. Again, if he’s wise, which given his actions, I seriously doubt…

412 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:05:58pm
413 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:06:16pm

re: #408 Targetpractice

That seems like the most likely situation, which seems like grounds for aiding and abetting charges.

Although Wikileaks funding has dried up there were big money backers involved who still have lots on money laying around.

414 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:08:11pm

re: #410 Stanghazi

I thought about this too. Hell, I won’t lie here. I have minor qualms myself about working for the CIA. It’s part of why I haven’t really applied to any intelligence agencies since I’ve gotten my bachelors.

415 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:09:03pm

Snowden was “working” in Hawaii. Some people claim that Obama was born in Hawaii. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

416 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:09:12pm
417 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:10:08pm
418 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:11:26pm

Oh, you have got to be shitting me:

Pardon Edward Snowden

419 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:11:40pm

re: #417 Gus

This is actually why while I don’t like Moore/Greenwald, I at least give them their consistency. Not agreement mind you but I know that they’d be making hay of this regardless of whom was president. Beck? Hannity? This is all about who is in the WH to them and that’s shit.

420 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:12:05pm

Maybe because none of Greenwald’s books are available in Hong Kong?

421 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:13:34pm

re: #418 Targetpractice

Oh, you have got to be shitting me:

Pardon Edward Snowden

How can one be pardoned if one hasn’t been convicted of anything?

422 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:13:57pm
423 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:14:56pm

Wiretap anyone with just an email?

424 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:14:58pm

This Derpgate thing needs a few days to ferment—suspect there are more alarums and discursions in the script. BBL

425 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:15:17pm
426 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:15:55pm
427 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:16:46pm

Triads!

428 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:16:46pm

re: #414 HappyWarrior

I thought about this too. Hell, I won’t lie here. I have minor qualms myself about working for the CIA. It’s part of why I haven’t really applied to any intelligence agencies since I’ve gotten my bachelors.

Not for me. I don’t even like to work with the Deep Packet Inspection gear. Directed Lawful Intercept is fine, anything else creeps me out a bit. I’m not opposed to it, just don’t care to work with it.

429 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:17:08pm

We work closely with other nations!

Mossad!

It’s THE JUICE!

430 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:17:37pm

He has a dog?

431 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:18:12pm

Obama Is Checking Your Email

obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com

432 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:18:13pm

re: #425 Gus

Okay I’d love to see dos Glenn doing that at karaoke one night.

433 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:18:34pm

re: #430 Gus

He has a dog?

Dog or llama, depending on the publication.

434 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:20:18pm

re: #333 Targetpractice

Site’s getting pulverized by clocks right now.

But seriously, 3 months and he’s claiming a $200K salary? The smell of bullshit is getting overpowering.

I worked as a government contractor for 3 weeks and I made $46/hr. Also I did not have access to any classified information.

435 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:20:42pm
436 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:20:48pm

re: #399 Gus

I’ll agree that something smells funny here. But what?

437 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:20:56pm

God I hate these people. I can’t stand the emo progs.

438 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:21:11pm

re: #431 jaunte

Obama Is Checking Your Email

obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com

Bonus: Obama Is Checking Your Luggage

439 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:21:22pm

re: #436 ProTARDISLiberal

I’ll agree that something smells funny here. But what?

*sniff sniff* Sorry, I forgot to take a shower this morning.

//

440 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:22:53pm

200,000 Chinese Yuan = US $32,597.23

441 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:23:00pm

re: #437 Gus

God I hate these people. I can’t stand the emo progs.

They’re the kind that think it has to be all or nothing. I used to be that way myself but I have to say after seeing how hard the health care reform was to pass, it’s made me into a stone cold pragmatist. It’s easier to be an idealist which many of these emoprogs are.

442 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:23:35pm

The wingnut/moonbat convergence is proclaiming Ed Snowden President of Moonwingbattia by Acclamation.

443 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:24:24pm

re: #436 ProTARDISLiberal

I’ll agree that something smells funny here. But what?

We’ll find out sooner or later.

444 krypto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:25:28pm

Snowdon’s obviously absurd statements about Hong Kong’s “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent” (as if the British were still in charge) sounds like an effort to ingratiate himself to the Chinese government that he hopes will protect him.

I can see Snowdon becoming a useful idiot for China, and have a long career ahead of him undermining efforts to improve human rights just to oppose a an entirely legal policy he disagrees with in the United States.

445 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:25:34pm

re: #426 Gus

This is the shit that’s pissing me off. I honestly think these emoprog dipshits aren’t liberals in the first place. They do this shit any time there’s the least hint of forward movement on anything. Just go be Republicans for fuck’s sake. If I hear one more person tell me that lefties like me(and I’ve stated it before, I am a pretty far left, just not an idiot anarchist type- that crap solves and changes nothing) love this guy and Greenwald I’m hitting someone with a chair. Bullshit. Exposing corruption and wrongdoing is one thing. Undermining the only party we have right now with even the slightest chance of moving things away from the right is another.

446 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:27:09pm

re: #422 Stanghazi

What is with the idea that GMOs are poison?

There is a lot wrong with them, such as the unintended consequences of co-evolutionary changes in weeds, but the proteins formed by adding genes are pretty obvious.

447 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:28:11pm

re: #444 krypto

Snowdon’s obviously absurd statements about Hong Kong’s “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent” (as if the British were still in charge) sounds like an effort to ingratiate himself to the Chinese government that he hopes will protect him.

I can see Snowdon becoming a useful idiot for China, and have a long career ahead of him undermining efforts to improve human rights just to oppose a an entirely legal policy he disagrees with in the United States.

He’s a techie. He could wind up on a Foxcomm assembly line.

448 StephenMeansMe  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:28:48pm

re: #446 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Something something Monsanto, organic, NaturalNews, toxins.

That’s the usual argument at least.

449 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:28:58pm

DERP

450 Occam's Guillotine  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:29:13pm

Sheesh! The wingnut right devoured the Republican Party several years ago, now they are set to assimilate the moonbat left as well. They are the flesh eating bacterium of political culture.

451 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:29:52pm
452 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:30:22pm

re: #450 Occam’s Guillotine

Sheesh! The wingnut right devoured the Republican Party several years ago, now they are set to assimilate the moonbat left as well. They are the flesh eating bacterium of political culture.

Anti-government is the common link.

453 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:30:35pm

re: #445 A Mom Anon

This is the shit that’s pissing me off. I honestly think these emoprog dipshits aren’t liberals in the first place. They do this shit any time there’s the least hint of forward movement on anything. Just go be Republicans for fuck’s sake. If I hear one more person tell me that lefties like me(and I’ve stated it before, I am a pretty far left, just not an idiot anarchist type- that crap solves and changes nothing) love this guy and Greenwald I’m hitting someone with a chair. Bullshit. Exposing corruption and wrongdoing is one thing. Undermining the only party we have right now with even the slightest chance of moving things away from the right is another.

They are liberals or if you listen to them progressives, (prefer being a liberal myself), their problem is rigid ideology where they lack a desire to understand why other people think the way they think or they think in absolutes.

454 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:31:23pm

re: #436 ProTARDISLiberal

I’ll agree that something smells funny here. But what?

We speculate in fun but wait in earnest.

455 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:31:44pm

re: #444 krypto

Snowdon’s obviously absurd statements about Hong Kong’s “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent” (as if the British were still in charge) sounds like an effort to ingratiate himself to the Chinese government that he hopes will protect him.

Hong Kong’s citizens have certainly showed a spirited commitment to free speech, and they are fighting a battle to maintain their rights against the PRC. However, in the past two or three years they appear to be losing that fight badly. Whether Snowden knows this or not, who knows.

456 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:32:11pm

re: #450 Occam’s Guillotine

Sheesh! The wingnut right devoured the Republican Party several years ago, now they are set to assimilate the moonbat left as well. They are the flesh eating bacterium of political culture.

The moonbat left is defined by its anti-science, anti-skepticism, and conspiracy theories. Chunks of the moonbats are anti-government and effectively libertarian.

457 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:32:24pm

re: #455 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hong Kong’s citizens have certainly showed a spirited commitment to free speech, and they are fighting a battle to maintain their rights against the PRC. However, in the past two or three years they appear to be losing that fight badly. Whether Snowden knows this or not, who knows.

Couldn’t he ask an analyst or someone?

458 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:33:05pm

re: #456 The Ghost of a Flea

The moonbat left is defined by its anti-science, anti-skepticism, and conspiracy theories. Chunks of the moonbats are anti-government and effectively libertarian.

That point where the spectrum wraps around itself, where the far-left and far-right meet in their own “middle.”

459 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:33:33pm

Changing the subject. We must not forget the other forms of fascism people!

460 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:34:18pm

re: #459 Stanghazi

Changing the subject. We must not forget the other forms of fascism people!

$222,870.05

461 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:34:59pm

re: #455 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hong Kong’s citizens have certainly showed a spirited commitment to free speech, and they are fighting a battle to maintain their rights against the PRC. However, in the past two or three years they appear to be losing that fight badly. Whether Snowden knows this or not, who knows.

…if Snowden isn’t shopping himself to the Chinese.

…or if the Chinese government don’t pick him up for questioning. Being in Hong Kong doesn’t negate the PRC’s intelligence community or police apparatus.

462 sauceruney  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:35:28pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

I also wonder how much this tantrum is costing taxpayers.

463 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:37:40pm

Snowden better not turn out to be another Elvis impersonator.

464 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:40:40pm

re: #446 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

What is with the idea that GMOs are poison?

There is a lot wrong with them, such as the unintended consequences of co-evolutionary changes in weeds, but the proteins formed by adding genes are pretty obvious.

Short version, from someone who is a farmer who refuses to plant GMO just because I despise Monsanto because of their business practices of polluting the environment and paying miniscule fines was cheaper than fixing the problem (personal experience where my family lived across the street from a Monsanto plant in a small village that is more than 200 years old, so the village was there first, and the elementary school was condemned as a result of high toxic levels directly related to Monsanto’s kiss-my-ass emissions)…

The problem with GMO crops is gene splicing, using genetic material completely unrelated to the actual plant. GMO crops are in no way analogous to hybridization, which farmers are been doing for thousands of years to improve crops.
People are quite rightly concerned about GMO practices because of the “just trust us” aspect when, from all appearances, it just doesn’t sound right.

465 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:46:27pm

This raises an interesting question though, what would have been the best country for Snowden to flee to, setting aside for the moment the fact that you’re not Snowden and have no intention of ever leaking classified data on US government programs.

Andorra is pretty obvious, so ignore it. It’s also really tiny and they probably won’t let you naturalize or gain permanent resident status. I vote Vietnam, for the nightlife, or possibly Bali, Indonesia. Montenegro seems nice, and you might get an ocean view. Maybe go the other way and chill out in Nepal. But the choices are pretty sparse and few of the countries in grey have good track records on freedom of the press.

466 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:49:09pm

re: #454 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

You know what we need during the 6 month Hiatus to the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who?

An elaboration of the little scene in Name of the Doctor where the 2nd and 8th Doctor were on an adventure, presumably in Florida or California based on the scenery.

467 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:50:10pm

re: #464 Backwoods_Sleuth

Short version, from someone who is a farmer who refuses to plant GMO just because I despise Monsanto because of their business practices of polluting the environment and paying miniscule fines was cheaper than fixing the problem (personal experience where my family lived across the street from a Monsanto plant in a small village that is more than 200 years old, so the village was there first, and the elementary school was condemned as a result of high toxic levels directly related to Monsanto’s kiss-my-ass emissions)…

The problem with GMO crops is gene splicing, using genetic material completely unrelated to the actual plant. GMO crops are in no way analogous to hybridization, which farmers are been doing for thousands of years to improve crops.
People are quite rightly concerned about GMO practices because of the “just trust us” aspect when, from all appearances, it just doesn’t sound right.

I’m no fan of Monsanto, but gene splicing results in proteins that can be, and are, tested. Gene splicing isn’t blindly throwing a known gene into a pool of genes hoping it will stick.

468 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:02:55pm

re: #467 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I’m no fan of Monsanto, but gene splicing results in proteins that can be, and are, tested. Gene splicing isn’t blindly throwing a known gene into a pool of genes hoping it will stick.

This could be true, but I am, personally, not convinced that it improves crops to any relevant degree. My best yields have always been with heirloom varieties, and Monsanto GMO crops have shown an alarming tendency for pests to build a resistance.
I also do NOT appreciate Monsanto’s winner-take-all bullyboy attitude against farmers who have never willingly purchased or planted their products.
As a side note, one of the local farmers here first planted GMO corn the same year I lost all seven of my honeybee hives to Colony Collapse Disorder (honeybees will load up on corn pollen for brood production). I’m still not convinced about what caused CCD, it could very well have been just a coincidence, but my neighbor stopped planting GMO after that when he learned my hives were dead. I’ve noticed that many of my hive swarms that I let “go free” are apparently doing quite well up in the woods, including a particular Russian strain that I started with about 15 years ago.

469 Dr. Matt  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:37:11pm

#IStandWithEdwardSnowden

I now have a criteria to thin out my twitter follow list.

470 BeenHereAwhile  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:52:43pm

re: #110 jaunte

Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

“I’m cold. I’m cold.”

471 Ming  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:46:13pm

re: #85 Occam’s Guillotine

Lessee, “Al Guardian” and Russia Today are now the right wing’s favorite media sources? Ordinary Americans can’t buy ammunition because RWNJs are hoarding it for an expected battle with the police and the US military? The right’s newest hero gets major martyr cookies by fleeing to RED FUCKING CHINA?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE?

We now know what the looney right really is: a commie false flag operation on an undreamed of scale.

Good point; this is all very strange indeed. I believe the right-wing’s incoherent behavior is made possible by their maniacal focus on hating President Obama. They’re really in Alice in Wonderland territory.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
5 days ago
Views: 143 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 305 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1