Amazing How The Only Group Voter Suppression Doesn’t Target Is White Men

I wonder why the Texas GOP wants to make it harder for women to vote.
Politics • Views: 26,881


The Republican defense of laws requiring identification to vote usually goes like this: “Who doesn’t have ID? And why can’t they get it?”

They’re forced to this defense because they can’t point to one election in modern American history that was swung by the phantom scourge of in-person voting fraud. They know they can’t because the Bush administration tried to find one for years and couldn’t.

These questions are rhetorical, because any serious attempt to answer them indicts the effort to make voting more difficult.

Who doesn’t have voter ID?

In 2012, “the state admitted that between 603,892 and 795,955 registered in voters in Texas lacked government-issued photo ID, with Hispanic voters between 46.5 percent to 120 percent more likely than whites to not have the new voter ID,” according to The Nation’s Ari Berman.

And why can’t they get it?

Counties with a significant Hispanic population are less likely to have a DMV office, while Hispanic residents in such counties are twice as likely as whites to not have the new voter ID (Hispanics in Texas are also twice as likely as whites to not have a car),” Berman points out.

But Texas’s law doesn’t only make it more difficult for Latinos to vote, it also places an undue burden on one specific gender. Guess which one!

The New Civil Rights Movement’s Jean Ann Esselink explains:

As of November 5, Texans must show a photo ID with their up-to-date legal name. It sounds like such a small thing, but according to the Brennan Center for Justice, only 66 percent of voting age women have ready access to a photo document that will attest to proof of citizenship. This is largely because young women have not updated their documents with their married names, a circumstance that doesn’t affect male voters in any significant way. Suddenly 34 percent of women voters are scrambling for an acceptable ID, while 99 percent of men are home free.

Democratic strategist Alex Palambo points out, “Similar to how poor, minority, and elderly voters in Pennsylvania had trouble getting to the DMV to obtain a state ID or driver’s license before the election, women in Texas are having trouble getting an acceptable photo ID that matches their most current name.”

Palambo feels it’s more than a coincidence that voting is becoming more difficult for women just as State Senator Wendy Davis (D-Fort Worth) prepares to take on Texas attorney general Greg Abbott to replace Rick Perry as the state’s governor.

“Greg Abbott has a reason to be scared of Davis, his own popularity with women is low, most likely due to his strict reproductive health restrictions, gutting of childcare funding, and opposition to equal pay,” she notes. The party may also be thinking ahead to 2016, when another Democratic woman might be on the ballot.

Regardless, voter ID is a policy that seems designed to make it harder for everyone to vote, except white men.

Even the conservative federal judge who wrote the majority opinion in the 2008 case that ultimately upheld that such laws were constitutional now admits the true agenda of these laws.

In his new book, Stephen A. Posner admits that he regrets his decision in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, noting that the law it upheld is “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

The Reagan-appointed federal appeals court judge now agrees with Judge Terence T. Evans, his colleague who wrote the minority decision in Crawford. “Let’s not beat around the bush: The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly-veiled attempt to discourage Election Day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic,” Evans wrote.

Posner admits that he wasn’t aware of the “trickery” inherent in the law when he made his decision just two years after a Republican Congress and president had renewed the Voting Rights Act, which was recently gutted by the Roberts court.

“I plead guilty to having written the majority opinion,” he writes in Reflections On Judging.

Perhaps he should have asked himself a question: Why would the party that claims to hate government regulation demand government regulation to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

The answer — unfortunately — is sad and simple.

“The Confederates and Dixiecrats of yesteryear are the Republicans of today,” writes Berman.

Photo: Alan Kotok via Flickr

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227 comments
1 Kragar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 2:52:08pm

Quick, if we tell the GOP we want to start a war to bring democracy to an oppressed people, we could have troops all over Texas before they even realize what has happened.
/

2 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 2:58:42pm

The whole “voter ID’ business is about the ever-shifting goalposts. First it was about ensuring the integrity of federal elections, but they could never prove that a federal election had been significantly affected by in-person voter fraud. So then they said it was about the integrity of state elections, but same business. Local elections, same deal. So now it’s just the blanket “integrity of elections!” business, while pushing their vote fixing scheme on the argument that “with election margins narrowing, every vote should be valid!”

3 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 2:59:23pm

The hassle of changing one’s ID to a new name is a lot more involved than most guys realize, I think. There’s the marriage license (which you have to wait to get back, once it’s mailed in after the ceremony - and if you’re smart, you order extra copies so that you can deal with multiple things at once). Social security. Driver’s license. Passport.

My husband and I added each other’s last name to our middle names, so I got to skip things like title to my car and credit cards, and he got to go along with me for all of this. But even with that simple change, it still took a good 6 months before we were done with what we set out to do, and two mornings sacrificed to various government agencies.

I didn’t get my passport back with my proper name until almost a year after we got married.

4 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:02:15pm

I’ve learned a little about women in Mexican culture. I get the idea that getting an ID inthe US would be a very scary endeavor.

5 Zamb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:02:46pm
Why would the party that claims to hate government regulation demand government regulation to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

Ha, love this.

6 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:02:53pm

re: #3 klys

I didn’t get my passport back with my proper name until almost a year after we got married.

The Mrs. Fish’s passport is still in her maiden name. It’ll probably expire before we get to use it again, so that should be the final big hassle coming up.

7 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:04:06pm

bbl

8 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:04:37pm

Yes, the toenail fungus ads are back. I just found their latest incarnations and blocked them again.

9 Zamb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:05:16pm

Unfortunately a lot of the state governments who write these laws have members who do believe in wide spread voter fraud, not all state senators and assembly people are well informed voters.

10 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:06:13pm

re: #4 FemNaziBitch

I’ve learned a little about women in Mexican culture. I get the idea that getting an ID inthe US would be a very scary endeavor.

As a white-y McWhite citizen in NJ it was still a hassle when I got my first one, because between the documents to prove citizenship and the documents to prove residency, well, forget it.

I’m lucky in that my mother could easily put her hands on my birth certificate - which we made sure to get a backup of when I finally moved out of state - and that I have my passport (which can also serve a similar purpose). But if you’ve moved away from where you were born and don’t have a copy in the safe deposit box - or hell, a safe place - and no passport, what do you do? Yes, you can mail away for it, but in the meantime, until you finally get that all sorted out, forget voting in any elections, even though you have a right to.

11 Mattand  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:08:45pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yes, the toenail fungus ads are back. I just found their latest incarnations and blocked them again.

I’ll take those over the Sarah Palin wax candle any day.

12 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:09:42pm

re: #6 thedopefishlives

The Mrs. Fish’s passport is still in her maiden name. It’ll probably expire before we get to use it again, so that should be the final big hassle coming up.

We traveled to Japan about a year after the wedding, so it had to be sorted out before then.

Of course, they fucked mine up (but not my husband’s, which really pissed me off) so I had to call back and have them send a second one.

For both of us, the name now goes (first name) (old middle name spouse’s last name) (our last name). They got this right on his. On mine, they did (first name) (old middle name) (spouse’s last name my last name) - and then when I called to say they got it wrong, the woman on the other end asked me what the problem was. (Umm, the problem is that’s not my legal name per the marriage license, lady?)

And we filled the paperwork out the same way, and provided the same documentation.

/still really bitter about the assumption that I was taking his last name

13 thecommodore  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:12:19pm

The primary motivation behind voter suppression.

I give you the late Paul Weyerich:

Youtube Video

14 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:12:53pm

re: #10 klys

It’s worse than just inconvenience-people who were moved around a lot as kids may not even know exactly where they were born. Where do they send away for that info? A well-regulated file cabinet is not the first investment a poor family goes for.

15 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:16:35pm

Uruguay Will Sell Legal Marijuana For $1 Per Gram, Official Says

Uruguay’s drug czar says the country plans to sell legal marijuana for $1 per gram, though he’s given higher figures in the past.

A law already passed in the lower house of Congress and expected to pass in the Senate later this year would make Uruguay the first country in the world to license and enforce rules for the production, distribution and sale of marijuana for adult consumers.

16 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:18:13pm

re: #14 calochortus

It’s worse than just inconvenience-people who were moved around a lot as kids may not even know exactly where they were born. Where do they send away for that info? A well-regulated file cabinet is not the first investment a poor family goes for.

Exactly. All the comments offered that “it’s easy to get ID” and “they should be able to provide those documents” (a la francis) ignores the privilege inherent in the assumptions being made. Yes, for some people it is relatively straightforward, but when dealing with rights, there should be a heavy burden of proof required to show that restrictions on them are necessary. This fails the test on both ends: there is little proof that voting fraud is such a widespread issue such that restrictions such as these are necessary and the restrictions will fall disproportionately on lower income groups - serving as a sly poll tax.

And it’s presented in a form that’s very easy for people to swallow, as long as their willing to treat their experience as the only possible way things could happen.

17 darthstar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:19:24pm
18 erik_t  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:20:12pm

re: #15 Amory Blaine

Uruguay Will Sell Legal Marijuana For $1 Per Gram, Official Says

For the curious, since the Uruguayan average household income is about $1760/mo (vs $4200/mo in the US), this is equivalent to about $8.50 for an eighth.

Just in case anyone was curious.

(shifty eyes)

19 darthstar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:21:24pm

Scary pumpkin.

Image: 526560abe4b01.png

20 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:22:54pm

re: #16 klys

And it’s presented in a form that’s very easy for people to swallow, as long as their willing to treat their experience as the only possible way things could happen.

And that is exactly the world they want to live in.

21 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:25:04pm

re: #17 darthstar

[Embedded content]

ahh yes, the spirit of Nixon still permeates thru their veins

22 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:25:58pm

This is a great article. I almost wish francis were here to read it.

23 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:30:06pm

re: #22 wrenchwench

This is a great article. I almost wish francis were here to read it.

He would flail and whine and tell us that since he was able to get a license in NJ, anybody should be able to get a government photo ID for free anywhere and therefore there’s no impact of these laws other than laziness and encouraging moochers.

///

24 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:30:09pm

re: #16 klys

Exactly. All the comments offered that “it’s easy to get ID” and “they should be able to provide those documents” (a la francis) ignores the privilege inherent in the assumptions being made. Yes, for some people it is relatively straightforward, but when dealing with rights, there should be a heavy burden of proof required to show that restrictions on them are necessary. This fails the test on both ends: there is little proof that voting fraud is such a widespread issue such that restrictions such as these are necessary and the restrictions will fall disproportionately on lower income groups - serving as a sly poll tax.

And it’s presented in a form that’s very easy for people to swallow, as long as their willing to treat their experience as the only possible way things could happen.

“The ID’s free, so it’s not a poll tax!”

Wingnuts never take into consideration things like sending away for copies of your birth certificate, let alone any other legal documentation you might need to prove citizenship in your state of residence. My mother had to fight with the SSA for the better part of six months because they insisted that her middle name was her legal first name.

25 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:31:20pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

“The ID’s free, so it’s not a poll tax!”

Wingnuts never take into consideration things like sending away for copies of your birth certificate, let alone any other legal documentation you might need to prove citizenship in your state of residence. My mother had to fight with the SSA for the better part of six months because they insisted that her middle name was her legal first name.

My mom tells stories about how the DMV managed to issue her driver’s license number to another person.

26 Jolo5309  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:31:35pm

re: #11 Mattand

I’ll take those over the Sarah Palin wax candle any day.

Which is brighter?

27 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:33:29pm

re: #25 klys

My mom tells stories about how the DMV managed to issue her driver’s license number to another person.

My first driver’s license said I did not need glasses, despite my showing up at the DMV wearing a pair.

28 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:35:58pm

re: #27 Targetpractice

My first driver’s license said I did not need glasses, despite my showing up at the DMV wearing a pair.

I did not require glasses for driving until I moved to CA.

That being said, I would have been an idiot to drive without them, and I knew it, so I never drive without my glasses.

29 elizajane  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:38:49pm

While the media was busy covering glitches in Obamacare website, the real news today was that Ohio decided to accept federal funds to expand Medicaid coverage.
275,000 low income people got healthcare, just like that.
Thank you, Pres. Obama.

Starting Jan. 1, mostly childless adults earning up to 138 percent of the federal poverty level, about $16,000 for a one-person household, can begin receiving health care coverage under the state-federal program.

The childless adults who would gain health coverage include many long-time unemployed, mentally ill, veterans and prison inmates.

dispatch.com

30 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:43:30pm

re: #27 Targetpractice

My first driver’s license said I did not need glasses, despite my showing up at the DMV wearing a pair.

It is plausible if you can pass the eye exam without glasses. I always took mine off before taking the exam, and they never put the restriction on my license. But I still would’ve been a fool to drive without them. I probably still am.

31 Interesting Times  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:43:40pm

re: #29 elizajane

While the media was busy covering glitches in Obamacare website

Ugh. You should have heard the concern-troll idiocy dribbling from the lips of major garrett:

durr hurr, does the glitchy website ruin Obama’s credibility so now he can’t do immigration reform? herp derp.

Yet another reminder of why the corporate media is worse than useless.

32 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:45:00pm

re: #28 klys

I did not require glasses for driving until I moved to CA.

That being said, I would have been an idiot to drive without them, and I knew it, so I never drive without my glasses.

When I have had to get my eyes tested for my license, I don’t put on my glasses that day till after the test. So far, despite the fact that I wear glasses all the time, I have not failed a DMV eye test, and am not required to wear glasses.

But if I don’t, I have to ask my wife to read the road signs.

33 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:45:20pm

re: #31 Interesting Times

Ugh. You should have heard the concern-troll idiocy dribbling from the lips of major garrett:

durr hurr, does the glitchy website ruin Obama’s credibility so now he can’t do immigration reform? herp derp.

Yet another reminder of why the corporate media is worse than useless.

The media has been freed from the shackles of needing to remain neutral during the shutdown so that they may pursue their favorite past-time: Making excuses for 3 years of GOP efforts to destroy the ACA to blame the buggy roll-out on the White House.

34 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:48:21pm

bbl

35 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 3:51:47pm

WHAT? These people don’t own a pickup or even a car, and you expect them to vote? Communists.

36 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:00:29pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

“The ID’s free, so it’s not a poll tax!”

Wingnuts never take into consideration things like sending away for copies of your birth certificate, let alone any other legal documentation you might need to prove citizenship in your state of residence. My mother had to fight with the SSA for the better part of six months because they insisted that her middle name was her legal first name.

The most aggravating thing about this - well, one of the many aggravating things about this - is the inability of Conservatives to comprehend that anyone’s life could be different from theirs. They can’t understand that an old person, or a young person, or a poor person might go through their lives without a drivers license. And they can’t grasp that it might be a huge bother, and an expense, for someone without an ID to get one.

And worst, they’re happy to disenfranchise their parents’ generation, to save us from the nonexistent voter fraud.

37 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:00:31pm

Ecccch I just blocked a racist asshole @GenStuart

38 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:02:04pm

re: #37 Vicious Babushka

Ecccch I just blocked a racist asshole @GenStuart

Well, look at his Twitter handle. Named after a legendary figure of the Southern Civil War romanticists.

39 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:02:51pm
40 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:03:34pm

re: #36 GeneJockey

The most aggravating thing about this - well, one of the many aggravating things about this - is the inability of Conservatives to comprehend that anyone’s life could be different from theirs. They can’t understand that an old person, or a young person, or a poor person might go through their lives without a drivers license. And they can’t grasp that it might be a huge bother, and an expense, for someone without an ID to get one.

And worst, they’re happy to disenfranchise their parents’ generation, to save us from the nonexistent voter fraud.

It seems one of the profound differences that I can find, that many of the people who espouse conservative philosophies are incapable of empathy and trying to comprehend what it must be like to lead a different life.

41 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:06:24pm

re: #36 GeneJockey

The most aggravating thing about this - well, one of the many aggravating things about this - is the inability of Conservatives to comprehend that anyone’s life could be different from theirs. They can’t understand that an old person, or a young person, or a poor person might go through their lives without a drivers license. And they can’t grasp that it might be a huge bother, and an expense, for someone without an ID to get one.

And worst, they’re happy to disenfranchise their parents’ generation, to save us from the nonexistent voter fraud.

As I was just pointing out to my mother earlier, just getting a state ID here in VA requires you to show up with your birth certificate atop other official government documents and requires you to show up in person at the DMV. And that’s in addition to the hour or longer wait to be seen, at the end of which you might be informed that your documentation is invalid/out-of-date/incorrect and they need you to obtain the correct documentation before they can process your application, meaning more work to get what you need and another long wait in line at the DMV.

42 erik_t  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:06:44pm

re: #40 klys

It seems one of the profound differences that I can find, that many of the people who espouse conservative philosophies are incapable of empathy and trying to comprehend what it must be like to lead a different life.

When your entire worldview is “ZOMG DEFEND TRADITION”, you tend to find that that’s not really conducive to thinking about how other people might lead lives that are very different from your own.

43 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:10:03pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Several of my nieces and nephews have experienced no end of trouble getting documentation for jobs or passports because they don’t have official birth certificates - most of the eldest ones were home births. They had to jump through a lot of hoops with witnesses to the birth and everything.

44 erik_t  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:10:08pm

I’ve never found dealing with the DMV and getting a license etc etc to be all that big of a deal, but I recognize that this isn’t the case for everyone. These sorts of realizations are just part of growing into adulthood.

One of the great ironies about modern conservatism is that we’re all supposed to end up Republicans by the time we’re old, yet a rational and thinking person would tend to go the other way. Seeing even more ways of life, and having extra experiences to broaden your mind, would tend to make you more accepting of other ways of thinking.

It’s a fundamentally child-like worldview, in so very many ways.

45 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:10:34pm

re: #15 Amory Blaine

Man, that is a huge lowball by Uruguay.

They could make much more money that just a #1 per oz.

Edit: A bit out of it today, ignore this post.

46 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:12:18pm

re: #45 ProTARDISLiberal

Man, that is a huge lowball by Uruguay.

They could make much more money that just a #1 per oz.

Yeah, that’s a little over $28 per oz. Unit conversions are weird.

47 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:15:15pm

re: #15 Amory Blaine

Uruguay Will Sell Legal Marijuana For $1 Per Gram, Official Says

The riot police can now leave their guns and clubs at home and arm themselves with Oreos.
“Here kid, have a cookie and go sit on the curb.”
“Cool. Thanks, man”

48 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:16:50pm

Pope might be causing heartburn for Scalia:

Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

I am honestly surprised and impressed by him. I expected him to be more of the same, and to give the UK BS over the Falklands.

But he has been very good, and haven’t heard a thing about the Falklands. I still love the nickname the Falklanders gave Madam President Kirchner.

49 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:19:15pm

re: #44 erik_t

I’ve never found dealing with the DMV and getting a license etc etc to be all that big of a deal, but I recognize that this isn’t the case for everyone. These sorts of realizations are just part of growing into adulthood.

One of the great ironies about modern conservatism is that we’re all supposed to end up Republicans by the time we’re old, yet a rational and thinking person would tend to go the other way. Seeing even more ways of life, and having extra experiences to broaden your mind, would tend to make you more accepting of other ways of thinking.

It’s a fundamentally child-like worldview, in so very many ways.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t need my birth certificate to get a drivers license in PA back in 1974, but having done so, I’m set for life. That PA DL got me a NY DL in 1979, then that NY DL got me a CA DL in 1982, and it wasn’t until California that that my DL had a photo.

And all without a birth certificate.

50 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:21:33pm

so the name of the song is “it’s a nice day for a white voter”?

51 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:22:51pm

re: #50 dog philosopher

so the name of the song is “it’s a nice day for a white voter”?

Only if you’re a white male voter. They’d really like to go back to the old ways of “Hubby votes for her/tells her who to vote for.”

52 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:24:52pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

Only if you’re a white male voter. They’d really like to go back to the old ways of “Hubby votes for her/tells her who to vote for.”

Or she just doesn’t vote at all. Women don’t need to have a say in anything in polite society.

53 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:25:21pm

I went through all the paperwork name change crap back in 1976 for my first marriage. When he died in ‘94, I briefly thought about changing back to my maiden name, but the paperwork would have been even worse so I kept the first husband’s name.
Then, after second marriage in 2004, I kept the same name. Fortunately, current husband realized the amount of nonsense paperwork involved and is cool with us having different last names.
My international traveling days may be over, but I keep my passport current just because it’s my easiest “proof of citizenship”, even though that’s not a problem (so far) here in the backwoods of Kentucky in terms of voting. Heck, I walk into the local firehouse (my polling place) and it’s like walking into the bar at “Cheers”.

54 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:25:36pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

Only if you’re a white male voter. They’d really like to go back to the old ways of “Hubby votes for her/tells her who to vote for.”

THey’d be fine with just male landowners, since they figure only white people own land, everyone else being too lazy and shiftless.

55 Stoatly  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:27:31pm

re: #52 thedopefishlives

Or she just doesn’t vote at all. Women don’t need to have a say in anything in polite society.

Youtube Video

56 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:27:41pm

re: #52 thedopefishlives

Or she just doesn’t vote at all. Women don’t need to have a say in anything in polite society.

A woman of quality is only mentioned in the dailies three times—when she’s born, married, and dies.

57 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:28:00pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

A woman of quality is only mentioned in the dailies three times—when she’s born, married, and dies.

Not even for each of the ten kids she’s going to have?

58 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:28:50pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

A woman of quality is only mentioned in the dailies three times—when she’s born, married, and dies.

and when she marries and dies, she is identified as “Mrs. White Asshat”…

59 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:29:19pm

And it looks like the Pope is taking his job seriously.

Big-spending German Catholic bishop called before Pope Francis

A big-spending German Catholic bishop was called before Pope Francis on Monday, as speculation grows over whether he will be forced to resign for his high-roller lifestyle.

Bishop of Limburg Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst, dubbed the “bling bishop” by the press for his extravagances, was received by the pontiff after a tense week’s wait in Rome.

The offenses:

His private quarters in a brand-new bishop’s palace are reported to have cost about 2.9 million euros ($3.9 million) and included a 63-square-metre dining room and a 15,000-euro bathtub.

60 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:29:46pm

re: #57 thedopefishlives

Not even for each of the ten kids she’s going to have?

Well, that’s more or less the husband’s doing.

61 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:30:10pm

re: #60 Decatur Deb

Well, that’s more or less the husband’s doing.

Ah, that’s a good point. I forget how progressive I am sometimes.

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:30:23pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

and when she marries and dies, she is identified as “Mrs. White Asshat”…

Of the Montauk Asshats.

63 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:31:56pm

re: #61 thedopefishlives

Ah, that’s a good point. I forget how progressive I am sometimes.

We joke about this, but sometimes I look at how far we’ve progressed and am amazed.

And then I look at the asshats who seem to think that this is enough and women should be satisfied with the fact that we are supposed to have equal rights and shouldn’t keep pushing for true equality and I want to smash things.

64 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:34:58pm

re: #63 klys

We joke about this, but sometimes I look at how far we’ve progressed and am amazed.

And then I look at the asshats who seem to think that this is enough and women should be satisfied with the fact that we are supposed to have equal rights and shouldn’t keep pushing for true equality and I want to smash things.

VOTE? Hell, we should never have taught them to TALK!!!

65 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:38:35pm

Years ago, my Mom worked in the lab in a hospital. She’d set up the blood bank and run it, making sure it had all the accreditations, and that it passed periodic inspections, all in addition to other duties. There was a guy who worked there who was less senior, and whose responsibilities were significantly less. She learned that he made significantly MORE money than she did, and when she asked her boss about this, she was told, “He has a family to support.”

66 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:41:00pm

re: #63 klys

We joke about this, but sometimes I look at how far we’ve progressed and am amazed.

And then I look at the asshats who seem to think that this is enough and women should be satisfied with the fact that we are supposed to have equal rights and shouldn’t keep pushing for true equality and I want to smash things.

And then I look around me at all the douchecanoes who actually want to go BACKWARDS, and it makes me want to punch someone in the face. The fact that I live in the middle of fundamentalist country has its drawbacks, at times.

67 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:42:56pm

re: #65 GeneJockey

Years ago, my Mom worked in the lab in a hospital. She’d set up the blood bank and run it, making sure it had all the accreditations, and that it passed periodic inspections, all in addition to other duties. There was a guy who worked there who was less senior, and whose responsibilities were significantly less. She learned that he made significantly MORE money than she did, and when she asked her boss about this, she was told, “He has a family to support.”

To each according to his need? Why that’s communism!

68 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:43:15pm

re: #66 thedopefishlives

And then I look around me at all the douchecanoes who actually want to go BACKWARDS, and it makes me want to punch someone in the face. The fact that I live in the middle of fundamentalist country has its drawbacks, at times.

I’ve a pet wingnut (in the sense that I regard a lot of what he says like I do the things my cat pukes on the carpet) who insists that things went to shit when no-fault divorce became legal. No matter how many times I’ve shown him the numbers showing divorce had been on the rise for decades prior, that judges were increasingly afraid of the precedent set by couples committing perjury to attain a divorce, or the negative results of couples being forced to stay together, he insists that things in this country would be ever so better if marriage was truly “til death do us part.”

69 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:44:33pm

re: #65 GeneJockey

Years ago, my Mom worked in the lab in a hospital. She’d set up the blood bank and run it, making sure it had all the accreditations, and that it passed periodic inspections, all in addition to other duties. There was a guy who worked there who was less senior, and whose responsibilities were significantly less. She learned that he made significantly MORE money than she did, and when she asked her boss about this, she was told, “He has a family to support.”

I can’t bring myself to +1 this because it’s utter SHIT that your mother got treated that way and that this was considered (and is still considered!) acceptable to far too many people makes my blood boil.

But it’s by sharing stories like that that at least some (non-wingnut) people will see the need for change, and I am grateful that you shared it.

70 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:44:59pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I’ve a pet wingnut (in the sense that I regard a lot of what he says like I do the things my cat pukes on the carpet) who insists that things went to shit when no-fault divorce became legal. No matter how many times I’ve shown him the numbers showing divorce had been on the rise for decades prior, that judges were increasingly afraid of the precedent set by couples committing perjury to attain a divorce, or the negative results of couples being forced to stay together, he insists that things in this country would be ever so better if marriage was truly “til death do us part.”

…is he married?

71 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:46:33pm

<Kyle’s voice>GDAMMIT!</Kyle’s voice>

72 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:47:00pm

re: #70 klys

…is he married?

Yep. He’s the stereotypical wingnut, in that his wife’s a federal employee who brings home the bacon, while he sits on his ass at home and opines about how things were so great when he was a kid back in the 50’s.

73 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:48:07pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

Yep. He’s the stereotypical wingnut, in that his wife’s a federal employee who brings home the bacon, while he sits on his ass at home and opines about how things were so great when he was a kid back in the 50’s.

So really, what he’s saying is “I’m fucked if she divorces me and I’m not really giving her reasons to keep me, so I need the government to make sure that there’s no way she can get away.”

74 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:49:56pm

re: #73 klys

So really, what he’s saying is “I’m fucked if she divorces me and I’m not really giving her reasons to keep me, so I need the government to make sure that there’s no way she can get away.”

Pretty much. I’ve been told by a mutual acquaintance that he’s raised his sons on the same brand of misogynist BS that he belches on the Net.

75 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:50:27pm

GROWING THE DEBT: US resumes $1.6 billion in Pakistan aid after hiatus

what fox news thinks is the most important story of the day and so deserves a big banner headline

76 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:51:05pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

Yeah. My wingnut friends and family are all firmly convinced that if we just went ahead and went full metal theocracy, the world would suddenly be a Utopian place.

77 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:51:39pm

re: #75 dog philosopher

I do think this is a really bad idea.

I would bet over half of that aid ends up with the Taliban.

78 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:52:08pm

re: #76 thedopefishlives

Yeah. My wingnut friends and family are all firmly convinced that if we just went ahead and went full metal theocracy, the world would suddenly be a Utopian place.*

* For white male Christian landowners.

All others need not apply.

79 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:52:52pm

re: #78 klys

* For white male Christian landowners.

All others need not apply.

No, not even. They think that if those uppity women just learned their place, they too would be happy and find contentment in God’s chosen life for them.

80 elizajane  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:53:05pm

Former half-term Alaska gov. Sarah Palin wants you to know: all those glitches in the Obamacare websites are deliberate ploys that will force us to move to SOCIALISM and of course DEATH PANELS.

It’s at Breitbart. I don’t want to give them the dignity of a link, so you can read the digest version on Raw Story:

rawstory.com

81 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:54:15pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I’ve a pet wingnut (in the sense that I regard a lot of what he says like I do the things my cat pukes on the carpet) who insists that things went to shit when no-fault divorce became legal. No matter how many times I’ve shown him the numbers showing divorce had been on the rise for decades prior, that judges were increasingly afraid of the precedent set by couples committing perjury to attain a divorce, or the negative results of couples being forced to stay together, he insists that things in this country would be ever so better if marriage was truly “til death do us part.”

I think when most people vocalize these kinds of thoughts deep down what they really mean is that things would be better if people truly understood the gravity of the oaths they take when getting married, and if they were prepared to confront and change whatever is necessary within themselves to honor the marriage and make it work.

That’s almost certainly true, just like it’s almost certainly true that American society could cut way down on gasoline imports if people would just grow wings and learn to fly.

You can’t fix an intrinsic design flaw in human nature with a simplistic approach to divorce law.

82 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:54:16pm

re: #79 thedopefishlives

No, not even. They think that if those uppity women just learned their place, they too would be happy and find contentment in God’s chosen life for them.

I don’t want a God who requires me to stifle the potential he supposedly gave me.

83 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:54:18pm

re: #73 klys

So really, what he’s saying is “I’m fucked if she divorces me and I’m not really giving her reasons to keep me, so I need the government to make sure that there’s no way she can get away.”

This same line of ‘reasoning’ is also applicable to man-children who want the wife to take care of all the household chores etc.

84 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:56:16pm

re: #82 klys

I don’t want a God who requires me to stifle the potential he supposedly gave me.

Yeah, there’s a reason I don’t really identify with my roots anymore. I love my folks, but I went out of my way to marry a spirited and independent woman. Going to college really opened my eyes to the liberal side of the world.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:57:13pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I’ve a pet wingnut (in the sense that I regard a lot of what he says like I do the things my cat pukes on the carpet) who insists that things went to shit when no-fault divorce became legal. No matter how many times I’ve shown him the numbers showing divorce had been on the rise for decades prior, that judges were increasingly afraid of the precedent set by couples committing perjury to attain a divorce, or the negative results of couples being forced to stay together, he insists that things in this country would be ever so better if marriage was truly “til death do us part.”

And he should always sleep with one eye open, because “til death do us part” sometimes comes in many forms when a spouse get pushed too far…

86 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 4:57:57pm

re: #81 goddamnedfrank

I think when most people vocalize these kinds of thoughts deep down what they really mean is that things would be better if people truly understood the gravity of the oaths they take when getting married, and if they were prepared to confront and change whatever is necessary within themselves to honor the marriage and make it work.

That’s almost certainly true, just like it’s almost certainly true that American society could cut way down on gasoline imports if people would just grow wings and learn to fly.

You can’t fix an intrinsic design flaw in human nature with a simplistic approach to divorce law.

Why, when it was harder to divorce, women just put up with periodic beatings couples would stay together in loveless marriages hating each other and every single day of life work hard to make each other as miserable as humanly possible it work out, and stay together till death which was often the only relief.

87 Michael5MacKay  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:00:05pm

I think it’s “Richard” Posner, not Stephen.

88 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:00:57pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

And he should always sleep with one eye open, because “til death do us part” sometimes comes in many forms when a spouse get pushed too far…

In the dark kitchen while preparing the drinks, Walter impresses her with the facts about two fraudulent accident insurance claims, both filed by wives against their deceased husbands. The second case, in which the wife claimed her husband was cleaning his gun and shot himself in the stomach, ended with a prison term for the wife: “All she collected was a three-to-ten stretch in Tehachapi.” Phyllis responds: “Perhaps it was worth it to her.”

89 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:01:23pm

re: #86 GeneJockey

Why, when it was harder to divorce, women just put up with periodic beatings couples would stay together in loveless marriages hating each other and every single day of life work hard to make each other as miserable as humanly possible it work out, and stay together till death which was often the only relief.

Eliminating no-fault divorce is among the stupidest wingnut policy prescriptions, and lord knows the competition to place on that list is intense.

Perhaps the mockery they have sustained in the marriage equality wars has had an effect.

90 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:02:01pm

LOLGOP

“I wonder why the Texas GOP wants to make it harder for women to vote.”

Looks like the GOP isn’t very confident that they can appeal to women, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing this.

91 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:02:04pm

re: #88 dog philosopher

Reminds me of the prison scene from Chicago.

92 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:02:52pm

re: #80 elizajane

Former half-term Alaska gov. Sarah Palin wants you to know: all those glitches in the Obamacare websites are deliberate ploys that will force us to move to SOCIALISM and of course DEATH PANELS.

It’s at Breitbart. I don’t want to give them the dignity of a link, so you can read the digest version on Raw Story:

rawstory.com

A lot of the glitches are due to HHS not owning the third party systems it must interface with for each application. The income verification part requires access to both the IRS database and to the private credit bureaus. The application requires access to the private insurers in each state and possibly that states franchise tax board if it has an income tax too. Any system this distributed and complex is going to have load balancing issues on rollout. Especially with every jackass on the planet checking it out during the opening.

93 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:02:58pm

re: #88 dog philosopher

In the dark kitchen while preparing the drinks, Walter impresses her with the facts about two fraudulent accident insurance claims, both filed by wives against their deceased husbands. The second case, in which the wife claimed her husband was cleaning his gun and shot himself in the stomach, ended with a prison term for the wife: “All she collected was a three-to-ten stretch in Tehachapi.” Phyllis responds: “Perhaps it was worth it to her.”

exactly…

94 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:11:32pm

Hmm. I’m guessing it’s time for the dinner* lull.

* Or supper, if you are from the Midwest.

95 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:20:29pm

re: #94 klys

Hmm. I’m guessing it’s time for the dinner* lull.

* Or supper, if you are from the Midwest.

The GOP’s lack of interest in democracy is not newsworthy at all.

Ironically, if the mainstream media reported on it, that would be newsworthy, but only because the media would thereby have committed an act of journalism.

96 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:25:33pm

Anyone use f.lux ?

97 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:26:20pm

re: #96 Amory Blaine

Anyone use f.lux ?

I have not, my sister has. She liked it.

98 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:27:58pm

re: #95 EPR-radar

The GOP’s lack of interest in democracy is not newsworthy at all.

Ironically, if the mainstream media reported on it, that would be newsworthy, but only because the media would thereby have committed an act of journalism.

They can’t find a way to fit it into a ‘Both Sides Do It’ story. The closest they can get to that would require adopting the Rovian argument that Obama was suppressing GOP votes by saying bad stuff about Romney, and that shit’s too deep even for them.

99 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:28:07pm

I’m always looking for ways to turn my monitor down. I like black everything.

100 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:28:09pm

In searching through stuff to move, I found an heirloom that my mom’s dad gave to me as the only male descendant on his side.

My Great-Granddad’s Pocket Watch.

101 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:30:37pm

The ACA enables countless entrepreneurs and small business start ups, essential to a diverse recovery. This is not about Wall Street, it’s about individuals making business and income happen

Paged

102 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:31:53pm

re: #100 ProTARDISLiberal

In searching through stuff to move, I found an heirloom that my mom’s dad gave to me as the only male descendant on his side.

My Great-Granddad’s Pocket Watch.

When my grandmother passed this spring, my folks found my grandfather’s wedding ring. No one in the family could come even close to wearing it because it was so massive. I said, “Here, let me try that on, I have fat fingers.”

It was a perfect fit.

I wear it every day.

103 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:32:34pm

re: #98 GeneJockey

They can’t find a way to fit it into a ‘Both Sides Do It’ story. The closest they can get to that would require adopting the Rovian argument that Obama was suppressing GOP votes by saying bad stuff about Romney, and that shit’s too deep even for them.

I hadn’t seen that bit of stupidity before. Rove was simply being a babbling idiot then. Perhaps the unexpected loss by Romney had impaired Rove’s grasp of reality.

104 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:33:39pm

re: #102 thedopefishlives

When my grandmother passed this spring, my folks found my grandfather’s wedding ring. No one in the family could come even close to wearing it because it was so massive. I said, “Here, let me try that on, I have fat fingers.”

It was a perfect fit.

I wear it every day.

Family heirlooms are wonderful.

One of the things that pisses me off the most about when my grandfather passed is that the hospital managed to lose his wedding ring and the sapphire ring he always wore. My dad never talks about it, but the sapphire ring was going to be one of his legacies from his dad and it kills me that he doesn’t have that because of someone else’s incompetence (at best) or malice (at worst).

105 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:36:01pm

re: #102 thedopefishlives

And I am to wear the pocket watch, how?

//

106 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:36:11pm

re: #104 klys

Yeah. Being the only male descendant of my father’s family, it meant something special to wear Grandpa’s wedding ring. My grandmother lived long enough to see the line continue in my son; she continually reminded me that she was so eager to see me married and that I had to have a boy. After he was born, she called me on the phone just to tell me, “Oh, I would’ve loved him even if he was a girl.”

107 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:36:30pm

re: #104 klys

That is something to get pissed about.

108 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:37:30pm

re: #105 ProTARDISLiberal

And I am to wear the pocket watch, how?

//

With your Dr. Who cosplay, duh.

109 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:39:15pm

re: #106 thedopefishlives

Yeah. Being the only male descendant of my father’s family, it meant something special to wear Grandpa’s wedding ring. My grandmother lived long enough to see the line continue in my son; she continually reminded me that she was so eager to see me married and that I had to have a boy. After he was born, she called me on the phone just to tell me, “Oh, I would’ve loved him even if he was a girl.”

It doesn’t matter too much in the long run, since we’re not having spawn, but I kept my last name in part because of that. My dad was the only boy, and he had all girls.

I don’t know if Grandpa knew I wasn’t changing my name before he died. He passed away 4 months before the wedding. First time my husband met my grandmother was at the funeral.

110 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:43:51pm

re: #109 klys

Any future wedding with me is likely to be weird because of family drama on both sides of mine.

Do need to reach out to the Michigander wing of my Dad’s family, and whatever remnants there are of my mom’s. You see, my Granddad over there was an only child, and my mom is estranged from her sister. You have to go another generation back from my Grandfather to have it spread out. His parents had siblings. I just don’t know if Mom’s side has kept in contact with one another.

111 darthstar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:44:43pm

re: #28 klys

I did not require glasses for driving until I moved to CA.

That being said, I would have been an idiot to drive without them, and I knew it, so I never drive without my glasses.

That’s because we refuse to drink our beer out of a can while we drive.

112 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:45:01pm

well in my case my father’s brother’s son is propagating the line

he already has a son, so if the throne of the bogdaniew schtetl ever becomes vacant, we have a candidate

113 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:48:37pm

re: #109 klys

It doesn’t matter too much in the long run, since we’re not having spawn, but I kept my last name in part because of that. My dad was the only boy, and he had all girls.

I don’t know if Grandpa knew I wasn’t changing my name before he died. He passed away 4 months before the wedding. First time my husband met my grandmother was at the funeral.

It was one of the reasons I worked so hard on family research, albeit after my grandmother had already passed. We came so close to losing all our family history because my great-grandfather passed away when my grandfather was 18; he went off to the Army and never spoke about his father, and the only trace of records we had was an entry in the family Bible. We had no idea who our family was or where we came from, all we knew was that only one of Grandpa’s brothers had children and that they were all girls. My father was an only child, and I his only son.

114 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:50:32pm

re: #13 thecommodore

The primary motivation behind voter suppression.

I give you the late Paul Weyerich:

[Embedded content]

Weyrich is one of the three people most personally responsible for the state of American politics along with Richard Viguerie and Terry Dolan.

Viguerie was the money man; Weyrich communications and Dolan was the political operator. They worked really hard to bring the wingnuts into the public discourse, and voting GOP of course.

Unfortunately, they succeeded.

The rest is history.

115 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:52:26pm

Class lecture is fantastic for some things.

Hey VB, when are you going to make us a Venn pieagram?

Photo yoinked from here.

116 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 5:59:55pm

re: #114 Romantic Heretic

Weyrich is one of the three people most personally responsible for the state of American politics along with Richard Viguerie and Terry Dolan.

Viguerie was the money man; Weyrich communications and Dolan was the political operator. They worked really hard to bring the wingnuts into the public discourse, and voting GOP of course.

Unfortunately, they succeeded.

The rest is history.

It pains me that Weyerich has actually said some things that I agree with.

“We have to stop the movement of all our manufacturing to China and other foreign countries. If that requires tariffs, starting with tariffs to protect industries of strategic importance, so be it.”

“If we want to stop or at least reduce outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries, we should tax outsourcing. In my view, that would be a good new tax.”

The culture war vs. the radical religious right must be fought and won, but there does seem to be an unfortunate tendency for the US to mindlessly drift ever further to the right on economic issues, especially via globalizing the labor markets.

117 darthstar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:00:04pm

re: #115 klys

Class lecture is fantastic for some things.

Hey VB, when are you going to make us a Venn pieagram?

Photo yoinked from here.

Ooh…I like that…I’ll have to try making it.

118 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:02:26pm

Secret commie conference call. BBL

119 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:04:54pm

There’s Prudence, and SpreadBullshit, and now this crazy person:
A Trifecta of Derp

120 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:07:44pm

re: #115 klys

Class lecture is fantastic for some things.

Hey VB, when are you going to make us a Venn pieagram?

Photo yoinked from here.

Actually that looks kind of gross.

121 Lidane  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:08:33pm

re: #119 Vicious Babushka

Could someone please explain to me how giving people access to private insurance exchanges so they can buy affordable health insurance is proof that the government is the enemy? I’m having a hard time making the connection.

Maybe it’s because I’m allergic to derp and have more than two funcitonal brain cells to rub together. I don’t know.

122 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:08:51pm

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Actually that looks kind of gross.

I am not a fan of the topping on the apple in that one.

But I’m guessing that’s a no on the concept?

123 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:09:14pm

re: #121 Lidane

Because Benghazi

124 Petero1818  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:09:23pm

I think the best way to deal with this is to pass legislation requiring very specific voter registration that among other things requires you to provide information on one’s income, and whether or not they own a gun. I suspect voter registration will become a non-issue within weeks.

125 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:09:53pm

DERP

126 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:10:31pm

THEY’RE NOT LISTENING TO YOU, CANUCK.

127 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:11:35pm

This is not “wisdom” it’s just MOAR DERP.

128 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:12:08pm

If he didn’t become a movie star he’d be a janitor. PROSPERITY!!!!

129 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:12:18pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

re: #126 Vicious Babushka

Somehow, I suspect that the only Americans that would count for Cruz’s little exercise are Dominionist nut jobs, just like Cruz.

130 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:13:06pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

And he should always sleep with one eye open, because “til death do us part” sometimes comes in many forms when a spouse get pushed too far…

My wife’s step-father, who was an utter monster, was divorced by her mother and remarried rather quickly.

He tried to do the same shit to his new wife and family. She made it clear “You have to sleep sometime.” She was a nurse and could make it look very natural.

Not that there would have been an autopsy or anything. He was a widely despised man.

ETA: My wife relates that the local police chief once offered to take her step-father for a walk he wouldn’t come back from. She refused because she’s a good person.

131 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:17:46pm

OK, Pages authors - if you reinstall the CreateAPage bookmarklet it will now open a new window in Chrome instead of a tab.

Chrome has some crazy rules about this stuff - it is the most picky of the browsers when it comes to window.open().

132 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:18:22pm

re: #96 Amory Blaine

Anyone use f.lux ?

Yep. It makes things much easier on the eyes. Especially at night.

133 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:19:52pm

re: #126 Vicious Babushka

THEY’RE NOT LISTENING TO YOU, CANUCK.

[Embedded content]

You know, if you replace one letter it makes a hell of a lot more sense: Tell Ted Cruz to sit down and shut up! #MakeTCListen

134 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:22:10pm
135 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:23:25pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

OK, Pages authors - if you reinstall the CreateAPage bookmarklet it will now open a new window in Chrome instead of a tab.

Chrome has some crazy rules about this stuff - it is the most picky of the browsers when it comes to window.open().

That doesn’t really surprise me. Chrome came later than the other browsers, has less legacy restrictions, and also seems to be designed with the intention of keeping these sorts of shenanigans to a minimum. Which is unfortunate in the case that it’s actually what we want.

136 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:27:51pm

Surprise! Consumer Reports reports:
Obamacare opponents have misrepresented Consumer Reports’ position

“Pundits opposed to the new health care law and some media outlets have tried to suggest that our coverage of the troubled HealthCare.gov site means that Consumer Reports has turned against the Affordable Care Act.

Not true. Consistent with our mission to inform and protect consumers, particularly in this complicated health care market, our advice remains the same: The best place to buy coverage on your own is through the Health Insurance Marketplace in your state. That guarantees you will get comprehensive coverage, and it’s the only way you can lower the cost of your premiums and possibly even your deductibles and copayments.”

137 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:45:30pm

re: #105 ProTARDISLiberal

And I am to wear the pocket watch, how?

//

Blue jeans have pockets that were designed for pocket watches, not coins, which get stuck at the bottom and can’t be retrieved.

Some pants have watch pockets sewn into the waistband or inside one of the front pockets.

Vests are good for that, too, though they tend to make one look pretentious.

I carried one of a dozen pocket watches, daily, for about 5 years. They’re a little less convenient than a wrist watch, but dude - it’s your GGF’s watch. That’s like magic.

138 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:46:34pm

re: #105 ProTARDISLiberal

And I am to wear the pocket watch, how?

//

And you need to post a picture. No ifs, ands, or buts.

139 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:47:04pm

So what does it say that it was easier to write the first order logic statement for the lyrics for Stairway to Heaven than it is to write it for “every set has a power set”?

140 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:47:22pm

Never mind.

141 No Country For Old Haters  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:47:36pm

re: #96 Amory Blaine

Anyone use f.lux ?

Yep, and Twilight on my Android devices. They seem to help me get to sleep.

142 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:47:43pm

re: #140 GeneJockey

TO REFLECT THE EDIT I SAY WE ARE A BIG HAPPY LIZARD FAMILY.

I think it was a misclick. It’s gone now.

143 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:48:24pm

re: #142 klys

I think it was a misclick. It’s gone now.

Already edited.

144 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:48:43pm

re: #139 klys

So what does it say that it was easier to write the first order logic statement for the lyrics for Stairway to Heaven than it is to write it for “every set has a power set”?

That’s easy. Set theory is directly of the Debbil. Stairway to Heaven has to be played backward to be Satanic.

145 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:49:38pm

re: #121 Lidane

Could someone please explain to me how giving people access to private insurance exchanges so they can buy affordable health insurance is proof that the government is the enemy? I’m having a hard time making the connection.

Maybe it’s because I’m allergic to derp and have more than two funcitonal brain cells to rub together. I don’t know.

i guess because even if they manage to understand that they are not being forced to get all their health care from communist hospitals located somewhere in siberia, the private, low cost insurance they might desperately need on the website is contaminated by yucky obama democrat cooties

146 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:50:58pm
147 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:56:05pm

by the way, try explaining the concept of ‘cooties’ to somebody who didn’t grow up in an english speaking country…

148 freetoken  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:57:23pm

Horologists are pretty rare folk.

149 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 6:58:41pm

re: #148 freetoken

Horologists are pretty rare strange folk.

FTFY

150 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:01:28pm

re: #135 thedopefishlives

That doesn’t really surprise me. Chrome came later than the other browsers, has less legacy restrictions, and also seems to be designed with the intention of keeping these sorts of shenanigans to a minimum. Which is unfortunate in the case that it’s actually what we want.

a case of fixing the bug in the platform breaks all applications that took advantage of it?

151 Stoatly  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:04:01pm

re: #147 dog philosopher

by the way, try explaining the concept of ‘cooties’ to somebody who didn’t grow up in an english speaking country…

I think it’s only the US (maybe Canada?) that has the concept, the rest of the English speaking world is cootiless

152 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:07:20pm

re: #115 klys

Class lecture is fantastic for some things.

Hey VB, when are you going to make us a Venn pieagram?

Photo yoinked from here.

I made a pie chart of my favorite bars
and a bar chart of my favorite pies

153 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:10:16pm

re: #152 Eventual Carrion

I made a pie chart of my favorite bars
and a bar chart of my favorite pies

i regret that i have but one upding to give & etc

154 dog philosopher  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:13:53pm

re: #151 Stoatly

I think it’s only the US (maybe Canada?) that has the concept, the rest of the English speaking world is cootiless

my colleagues from india had never heard of them, nor thingamabobs, whachamacallits, or whoseewhatsises. also, in india nobody says ‘gesundheit’

155 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:24:48pm

There’s someone over at RedState claiming his premiums under ObamaCare will be $50,000 a year for his family of 5. He even has a screen shot of one insurance company’s rates to prove it. The problem is that the text above the monthly amounts says “Estimated monthly premiums for employees, their spouses and their children.” Now, that sounds to me like he’s in the entirely wrong category for an individual family, and someone has pointed out that it includes bariatric surgery as a policy addition since the policies end in “MO” (morbid obesity?)

I wonder how many people getting these horrible costs are making errors like that.

156 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:27:58pm

re: #155 calochortus

I doubt any of these helpful contributors of negative Obamacare anecdotes would be willing to have an experienced ‘navigator’ take them through the signup process and record the results.

157 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:29:50pm

re: #147 dog philosopher

by the way, try explaining the concept of ‘cooties’ to somebody who didn’t grow up in an english speaking country…

cootie

158 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:31:40pm

Charles, a little Pages feature suggestion I see at IO9.

A little notice near the comments section-“Author is Participating” Now I say this with no idea what percentage of people use the show user button where they could see if the author is in.

I just have the idea that little notice makes people a little more likely to chime in or ask a question.

159 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:32:25pm

Hmmm,

Matthew Clark is Associate Counsel for Government Affairs and Media Advocacy with the ACLJ in the Washington, D.C. headquarters. Matthew has authored numerous articles for such publications as the Washington Post and the ACLJ’s Docket Blog on critical constitutional and policy matters facing our nation and the fight for human rights worldwide. Prior to rejoining the ACLJ, where he clerked while in law school, he served as Judicial Law Clerk for the Honorable Walter S. Felton, Jr., Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals of Virginia. Matthew earned a Juris Doctor and Master’s Degree in Public Policy from Regent University where he served as the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of the Regent Journal of Law and Public Policy.

The ACLJ was founded by our old friend Pat Robertson, so I’m going with Mr. Clark lying rather than being confused.

160 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:33:13pm

re: #155 calochortus

There’s someone over at RedState claiming his premiums under ObamaCare will be $50,000 a year for his family of 5. He even has a screen shot of one insurance company’s rates to prove it. The problem is that the text above the monthly amounts says “Estimated monthly premiums for employees, their spouses and their children.” Now, that sounds to me like he’s in the entirely wrong category for an individual family, and someone has pointed out that it includes bariatric surgery as a policy addition since the policies end in “MO” (morbid obesity?)

I wonder how many people getting these horrible costs are making errors like that.

That’s not an error, that’s deliberate misrepresentation. They put in the wrong information just to drive up the quote as high as possible, then bury the correction, if any, deep within the comments later.

161 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:34:23pm

re: #157 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

cootie

Cootie

162 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:34:47pm

re: #160 goddamnedfrank

Quite so, see my #159 which was probably posted while you were responding.

163 Interesting Times  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:36:10pm

re: #160 goddamnedfrank

That’s not an error, that’s deliberate misrepresentation.

Why complain? All they’re doing is following rand paul’s oh-so-helpful advice 9_9

“Actually, I do,” said the ophthalmologist-turned-senator, who stays sharp (and keeps his license) by doing pro bono eye surgeries during congressional breaks. “I never, ever cheated. I don’t condone cheating. But I would sometimes spread misinformation. This is a great tactic. Misinformation can be very important.”

164 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:40:28pm

re: #163 Interesting Times

Why complain? All they’re doing is following rand paul’s all-so-helpful advice 9_9

“Actually, I do,” said the ophthalmologist-turned-senator, who stays sharp (and keeps his license) by doing pro bono eye surgeries during congressional breaks. “I never, ever cheated. I don’t condone cheating. >But I would sometimes spread misinformation. This is a great tactic. Misinformation can be very important.”

Cheating bad, lying good.

Got it.

165 sagehen  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:43:43pm

re: #155 calochortus

There’s someone over at RedState claiming his premiums under ObamaCare will be $50,000 a year for his family of 5. He even has a screen shot of one insurance company’s rates to prove it. The problem is that the text above the monthly amounts says “Estimated monthly premiums for employees, their spouses and their children.” Now, that sounds to me like he’s in the entirely wrong category for an individual family, and someone has pointed out that it includes bariatric surgery as a policy addition since the policies end in “MO” (morbid obesity?)

I wonder how many people getting these horrible costs are making errors like that.

so these “employees, their spouses and their children” — how many employees do we think that is, and how many children do they have?

166 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:45:15pm

re: #156 jaunte

I doubt any of these helpful contributors of negative Obamacare anecdotes would be willing to have an experienced ‘navigator’ take them through the signup process and record the results.

That will be a factor in a month or so. Right now the most experienced navigator has 3 weeks of live experience. There is lots of room for screw-ups. Fortunately most possible errors are recoverable. I’m also a bit worried about the potential for sabotage and entrapment.

167 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:47:01pm

re: #165 sagehen

so these “employees, their spouses and their children” — how many employees do we think that is, and how many children do they have?

It’s very likely that is a deliberate misuse of the small business exchange. You don’t buy insurance for your individual family on that marketplace.

168 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:48:49pm

re: #160 goddamnedfrank

That’s not an error, that’s deliberate misrepresentation. They put in the wrong information just to drive up the quote as high as possible, then bury the correction, if any, deep within the comments later.

Having poked at healthcare.gov, I found those plans. They are real.

They’re also the maximum and it appears, like the one comment on RedState says, that these plans include coverage for bariatric surgery.

Without that “MO” tag, the most expensive platinum plan in the area (no subsidy) is less than $1400.

169 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:51:02pm

re: #167 Decatur Deb

It’s very likely that is a deliberate misuse of the small business exchange. You don’t buy insurance for your individual family on that marketplace.

Yep, I wonder if the ACLJ provides coverage for their own employees, what with being so concerned with rights and all… I just can’t imagine a lawyer working for an outfit that doesn’t provide health insurance, so I doubt he needs to look on the exchanges.

170 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:52:34pm

re: #165 sagehen

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Even more fun, then - he copied and pasted the address from a previous search on the individual side into the address bar while looking at the employee one before taking the screenshot, apparently. Because the individual one references “you, your spouse, and your children.”

However, the plan is real and the pricing is the same on the individual side. This is because it is a specific subset of plans that includes coverage for bariatric surgery. They are by far the most expensive on the list, and I suspect a more likely event would be that you would see the individual who needs that surgery go on a separate plan that covers it, allowing the rest of the family to pay for the cheaper plan.

171 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:52:46pm

re: #168 klys

Having poked at healthcare.gov, I found those plans. They are real.

They’re also the maximum and it appears, like the one comment on RedState says, that these plans include coverage for bariatric surgery.

Without that “MO” tag, the most expensive platinum plan in the area (no subsidy) is less than $1400.

so they were only off by a factor of? some times, you think that these folks ever wonder why we don’t take them at face value….

172 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:57:00pm

Have these people no shame? And no, you don’t need to answer that-I think it’s pretty obvious.

174 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 7:58:26pm

re: #170 klys

Even more fun, then - he copied and pasted the address from a previous search on the individual side into the address bar while looking at the employee one before taking the screenshot, apparently. Because the individual one references “you, your spouse, and your children.”

However, the plan is real and the pricing is the same on the individual side. This is because it is a specific subset of plans that includes coverage for bariatric surgery. They are by far the most expensive on the list, and I suspect a more likely event would be that you would see the individual who needs that surgery go on a separate plan that covers it, allowing the rest of the family to pay for the cheaper plan.

The ultimate price to the prospective employee on the small business side is a decision made by the business owner, perhaps in negotiation with the employees. Employers can pay all or almost nothing towards the employee’s costs. If they cross certain participation and contribution lines, the gov kicks in up to half of the employer’s costs.

175 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:00:57pm

re: #170 klys

Even more fun, then - he copied and pasted the address from a previous search on the individual side into the address bar while looking at the employee one before taking the screenshot, apparently. Because the individual one references “you, your spouse, and your children.”

However, the plan is real and the pricing is the same on the individual side. This is because it is a specific subset of plans that includes coverage for bariatric surgery. They are by far the most expensive on the list, and I suspect a more likely event would be that you would see the individual who needs that surgery go on a separate plan that covers it, allowing the rest of the family to pay for the cheaper plan.

I continue to poke at this. The pricing for individual plans - which his address says he was looking at (that’s the “&aud=indv”) - all says “you, your spouse, and your children.” When you look for a small business, it gives you the “employees, their spouses, and their children” bit. However, for that, you get “&aud=sbiz” in the URL. It seems a lot of trouble to go through to fake a screenshot, but I rule nothing out at this point.

That being said, those plans are no longer offered (if they were) under the “&aud=sbiz” list. The highest cost plan there costs slightly more than a platinum plan for an individual family - but is still under $1600 a month before subsidies.

176 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:01:30pm

We really need to find a way to get rid of the “It’s both sides fault” paradigm that is in the US.

177 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:03:06pm

re: #175 klys

Don’t know how to produce that discrepancy by accident.

178 blueraven  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:04:54pm

re: #155 calochortus

There’s someone over at RedState claiming his premiums under ObamaCare will be $50,000 a year for his family of 5. He even has a screen shot of one insurance company’s rates to prove it. The problem is that the text above the monthly amounts says “Estimated monthly premiums for employees, their spouses and their children.” Now, that sounds to me like he’s in the entirely wrong category for an individual family, and someone has pointed out that it includes bariatric surgery as a policy addition since the policies end in “MO” (morbid obesity?)

I wonder how many people getting these horrible costs are making errors like that.

The dishonesty is amazing. This guy is only showing the MO policies

For a Gold Plan with Dental

KP VA Gold 1000/20/Dental

Kaiser Permanente

HMO | Gold
Estimated monthly premium for You, your spouse, and your children
$879.26

That is under $12,000 per year

And of course that is with no subsidies
According to the Kaiser calculator assuming a salary at 80K, this VA family of 5 could receive up to $5225 per year in subsidies

179 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:05:05pm

What I don’t understand is why these folks are so hell-bent on preventing people from getting adequate health care. How can people be so callous?

180 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:07:28pm

Quick romp through the same estimator the lying sack of shit used:

IH Premier 2000 PD:MO $4910/mo.

IH Premier 2000 PD $886.

So, you pay more than $4000 more a month for bariatric surgery coverage.

181 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:09:27pm

re: #180 GeneJockey

Quick romp through the same estimator the lying sack of shit used:

IH Premier 2000 PD:MO $4910/mo.

IH Premier 2000 PD $886.

So, you pay more than $4000 more a month for bariatric surgery coverage.

wonder if you can drop that coverage once you have the surgery….

182 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:09:57pm

re: #181 piratedan

wonder if you can drop that coverage once you have the surgery….

Sure, you’re not likely to need it again…

183 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:11:25pm

re: #179 calochortus

What I don’t understand is why these folks are so hell-bent on preventing people from getting adequate health care. How can people be so callous?

FREEDUMB!!!

184 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:11:41pm

re: #181 piratedan

wonder if you can drop that coverage once you have the surgery….

Should be able to change coverage during the annual open season. You can drop coverage w/o replacing just by stopping to pay monthly. Then you trigger the pro-rated penalty for that year unless you find new insurance.

185 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:13:53pm

re: #162 calochortus

Quite so, see my #159 which was probably posted while you were responding.

It’s actually easy to prove that it’s a deliberate lie. If you go to healthcare.gov and click on show plan for individuals and their families you get &aud=indv in the URL, which he has.

None of the plans that show up when you do that ever make any mention of employees. It’s physically impossible for him to have that in his URL and have the accompanying Employee language in the descriptions. When you search for small businesses the &aud=indv becomes &aud=sbiz.

The very expensive “MO” coded plans do appear, at the bottom of the list, in the individual list, minus any “employee” language. However he deliberately ignored any mention of was that the Catastrophic plans start at $418.60 per month. The cheapest Bronze plan is $487.14 and the cheapest Silver plan is $718, before any income based subsidy.

The guy appears to just be lying his ass off. And the worst part is that he didn’t have to, the very expensive “MO” plans don’t exist when you search for small business, they’re simply not presented as an option. The most expensive small business plan for employees, spouses and children is a Platinum plan running $1559.90 per month. It is currently impossible for me to recreate the page he posted. You cannot get the &aud=indv and references to “employees at the same time, and you cannot get the plans he shows to appear when searching for business, which is the only way to get references to employee coverage.

Maybe you could earlier, I don’t know, but right now nothing about what he’s presenting makes sense.

186 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:14:27pm

re: #179 calochortus

What I don’t understand is why these folks are so hell-bent on preventing people from getting adequate health care. How can people be so callous?

Adequate health care for everyone might be perceived as a win for the Democrats (despite the effect it would have of improving the overall economy).

187 klys  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:15:24pm

Office hours via Google Hangout = AMAZING.

Just have to say that.

188 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:16:03pm

re: #184 Decatur Deb

Should be able to change coverage during the annual open season. You can drop coverage w/o replacing just by stopping to pay monthly. Then you trigger the pro-rated penalty for that year unless you find new insurance.

just curious since I am in that market…. and the current disposition of insurance agencies towards that procedure is daunting despite their success rates… for some reason, they would rather that I remain borderline diabetic rather than proactively (and yeah, I done the diet and exercise plan to little sustained success for the last five years) attempt a different solution.

189 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:18:04pm

re: #186 jaunte

Adequate health care for everyone might be perceived as a win for the Democrats (despite the effect it would have of improving the overall economy).

People just don’t do a good job of thinking things through. Someone is paying for ER care and economic losses due to illness and not being able to function at the level you would if healthy, the numbers just aren’t in anyone’s spreadsheets.
Sort of like not wanting to pay for basic infrastructure.

190 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:18:21pm

WTH is MO coverage? I thought it was verboten to discriminate on pre-existing conditions.

191 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:19:06pm

re: #188 piratedan

just curious since I am in that market…. and the current disposition of insurance agencies towards that procedure is daunting despite their success rates… for some reason, they would rather that I remain borderline diabetic rather than proactively (and yeah, I done the diet and exercise plan to little sustained success for the last five years) attempt a different solution.

Scheduling can make a difference. Bariatric looks like a good way to clear a steep family deductible for a year.

192 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:20:35pm

re: #181 piratedan

wonder if you can drop that coverage once you have the surgery….

2014 is the only year in which the open enrollment period extends into the coverage year. So you might be able to get away with it if you get the surgery and change plans before the end of March. However this will be impossible in following years. People will have been locked in a paying for 9 full months before the open enrollment period comes around again.

193 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:22:39pm

re: #190 Amory Blaine

WTH is MO coverage? I thought it was verboten to discriminate on pre-existing conditions.

I think they have to insure you even if you are morbidly obese, they just don’t have to cover every possible procedure. IIRC, there have been problems with bariatric surgery because it is expensive and was being recommended for people whose insurance covered it but weren’t really the best candidates for it.
Some states permit the procedure to be excluded from ordinary coverage.

194 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:22:57pm

re: #189 calochortus

Our recent $24 billion wasted in that avoidable shutdown should have given everyone a realistic view of how much conservatives really care about waste vs. “winning.”

195 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:24:39pm

re: #190 Amory Blaine

WTH is MO coverage? I thought it was verboten to discriminate on pre-existing conditions.

See here:

re: #173 GeneJockey

Here’s the link to Innovation Health that says ‘MO’ covers bariatric surgery.

196 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:25:01pm

re: #191 Decatur Deb

re: #192 goddamnedfrank

TY folks, looks like I need to make a couple of phone calls, my job status is in flux and not yet permanent and as such, I’ll have to get my patootie out to the AZ exchanges to see what is offered and have a navigator help me make sure that what I read and understand is the reality. Cigna has been stringing me along for 10 months now and I’m currently in appeal with them and since they’re an insurance company, I will believe it when I have a written authorization in my hands…. sorry for being TMI… please, back to the duplicitous Republican shenanigans…

197 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:25:39pm

Jon Stewart and John Oliver just finished a bit on Obamacare computer ‘glitches’. Dennis Miller and Victoria jackson couldn’t have done a worse job.

198 sagehen  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:25:59pm

re: #179 calochortus

What I don’t understand is why these folks are so hell-bent on preventing people from getting adequate health care. How can people be so callous?

Pre-Obamacare, 85% of people had decent coverage (often overpriced, but they could get whatever care they needed), and 15% could only receive care at the emergency room.

If everybody has decent coverage, that’s almost 20% more demand on doctors’ office schedules, on non-emergency surgery — so the people who already had coverage are worried it will be harder for them to get an appointment or they think they’ll have to wait longer for elective procedures.

199 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:26:07pm

re: #190 Amory Blaine

WTH is MO coverage? I thought it was verboten to discriminate on pre-existing conditions.

Found it. Not all states treat morbid obesity treatments equally.

One of the key components of the ACA is a mandate that state health exchanges cover a set of health care service categories it has defined as Essential Health Benefits (EHB). Categories include ambulatory patient services, prescription drugs, and chronic disease management, among others. It is expected 23 states will have obesity treatments including metabolic and bariatric surgery as part of its EHB, and five will also cover weight loss programs. However, 27 states and Washington, DC states currently have no plans to include it. Click here to view a chart of the exchange programs for each state.

200 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:26:30pm

I see so it considered “elective” type surgery.

201 jaunte  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:26:54pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

Now that Shutdown is not a shiny object, it’s Glitch week.

202 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:35:50pm

re: #198 sagehen

Pre-Obamacare, 85% of people had decent coverage (often overpriced, but they could get whatever care they needed), and 15% could only receive care at the emergency room.

If everybody has decent coverage, that’s almost 20% more demand on doctors’ office schedules, on non-emergency surgery — so the people who already had coverage are worried it will be harder for them to get an appointment or they think they’ll have to wait longer for elective procedures.

I suppose so. But even so, letting people go without care doesn’t fit with most people’s professed beliefs, and I would think the number of doctors would increase to fill the need over the next 10 or 15 years.

203 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:37:20pm

re: #202 calochortus

I suppose so. But even so, letting people go without care doesn’t fit with most people’s professed beliefs, and I would think the number of doctors would increase to fill the need over the next 10 or 15 years.

‘Obamacare’ is actually more than one bill. A companion law pumps a lot of money into med schools.

204 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:38:22pm

looks like I could get coverage of Bariatric in Arizona, some additional hoops to jump thru (like six months of monitored diet and exercise) but since my BMI is atrocious and my knees are shot, the exercise is the hardest hurdle… at least, there’s hope if all else fails.

205 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:41:25pm

re: #200 Amory Blaine

I see so it considered “elective” type surgery.

In those states. There isn’t a 1 to 1 relationship with red states, Washington and Oregon are unexpectedly in the no category, Oklahoma unexpectedly covers it. But otherwise there’s a pretty decent correlation - the reddest, most obese states, the ones who’s citizens most need it, tend to be the ones who refuse to cover bariatric surgery as an essential health benefit. Several states, AZ, DE, HI, IL, NH, NV, NJ, NY, will cover the surgery but not weight loss plans / counseling. DC is the only jurisdiction that will cover weight loss but not the surgery.

206 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:44:46pm

re: #204 piratedan

Have you had a chance to dig through all the ACA and other providers in your state? Our very lowend Fed workplace insurance covered it. most states seem to have about 4-5 insurance companies in their Qualified Health Plan list, each with a lot of options.

207 blueraven  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:47:21pm

This asshole has cross posted the disgustingly dishonest 50K per year premiums article at ACLJ

208 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:48:22pm

re: #207 blueraven

This asshole has cross posted the disgustingly dishonest 50K per year premiums article at ACLJ

It’ll be on Freep and Drudge by midnight.

209 sagehen  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:48:56pm

re: #202 calochortus

I suppose so. But even so, letting people go without care doesn’t fit with most people’s professed beliefs, and I would think the number of doctors would increase to fill the need over the next 10 or 15 years.

“Professed beliefs”!? Please. Very conservatives belief what they profess to believe.

To quote the inimical Biden:

“Don’t tell me your values. Show me your budget and I’ll know what you value.”

210 blueraven  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:53:31pm

re: #208 Decatur Deb

It’ll be on Freep and Drudge by midnight.

211 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:54:05pm

re: #208 Decatur Deb

It’ll be on Freep and Drudge by midnight.

Heh. The ACLJ repost shows crossposting to RedState.

212 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:56:24pm

re: #210 blueraven

Of course, being a lawyer and all, he says ObamaCare “could” cost that much. It’s theoretically possible so he’s not really lying, right?

213 piratedan  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:58:30pm

re: #212 calochortus

Of course, being a lawyer and all, he says ObamaCare “could” cost that much. It’s theoretically possible so he’s not really lying, right?

same is true if flying monkeys took up residence in his intestinal tract… no scratch that, it’s a lie, unless he’s an actual small business and picking up the entire tab for all of his employees because they’ve willfully splinched the small business and family pages to drive their narrative.

214 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 8:58:33pm

re: #212 calochortus

Of course, being a lawyer and all, he says ObamaCare “could” cost that much. It’s theoretically possible so he’s not really lying, right?

Hold a cold mirror up to his face to tell.

215 blueraven  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:00:44pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Hold a cold mirror up to his face to tell.

Of course being Christian and all…

As a non-profit organization, the ACLJ does not charge for its services and is dependent upon God and the resources He provides through the time, talent, and gifts of people who share our concerns and desire to protect our religious and constitutional freedoms.

216 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:01:54pm

re: #212 calochortus

Of course, being a lawyer and all, he says ObamaCare “could” cost that much. It’s theoretically possible so he’s not really lying, right?

Right, his family could be a bunch of fat fuckers. Of course, this still doesn’t explain how he got the seemingly impossible “employee” description next to those plans and under the &aud=indv individual and family search. No matter what I do I can’t recreate that under the “see plans now” function on healthcare.gov for Fairfax, VA.

217 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:03:54pm

re: #215 blueraven

Of course being Christian and all…

Better Business Bureau: Standards Not Met

bbb.org

218 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:07:21pm

re: #216 goddamnedfrank

Right, his family could be a bunch of fat fuckers. Of course, this still doesn’t explain how he got the seemingly impossible “employee” description next to those plans and under the &aud=indv individual and family search. No matter what I do I can’t recreate that under the “see plans now” function on healthcare.gov for Fairfax, VA.

Maybe you just lack his magical touch?

219 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:07:43pm

re: #217 Decatur Deb

Overt scam artists:

Tenn. lawyer’s family, firm collect millions from charities

usatoday30.usatoday.com

220 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:10:02pm

re: #219 Decatur Deb

Well, isn’t that just lovely.

221 calochortus  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:19:28pm

And, on that note, good night, all.

222 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:23:37pm

re: #119 Vicious Babushka

There’s Prudence, and SpreadBullshit, and now this crazy person:
A Trifecta of Derp


I doubt she could survive in a real communist dictatorship

223 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 10:42:15pm

Twitter is back up for me, and here’s the conversation following the ACA = Holocaust tweet from yesterday.

224 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 10:43:46pm

And this one, too.

225 Lidane  Mon, Oct 21, 2013 11:59:06pm

re: #222 CriticalDragon1177

I doubt she could survive in a real communist dictatorship

None of them could. They have no sense of what that even means. Hell, most people in this country — even me — have no idea what it would mean to live under a communist dictatorship. Or under a fascist state. Or the tyranny of the Nazis. It’s all a foreign concept.

These people are very stupid and very ill-informed.

226 gwangung  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 12:04:55am

re: #225 Lidane

None of them could. They have no sense of what that even means. Hell, most people in this country — even me — have no idea what it would mean to live under a communist dictatorship. .

Had relatives in the PRC during the Cultural Revolution.

Yeah, they’re clueless. And they don’t have any idea how patronizing and insulting they are.

227 122 Year Old Obama  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:33:32am
Minus: 1
Dark_Falcon

Without fail.


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