Pope Francis Takes a Stand for Evolution

US conservatives are now to the right of the Pope
Religion • Views: 36,228

Pope Francis is more pro-science and anti-superstition than most Republicans: Pope Francis Takes a Stand for Evolution, Against ‘Magic Wands’.

Social conservatives in the United States who’ve been unhappy with Pope Francis’ moderation today have one more reason to be upset.

Daniel Berger reported this afternoon:

Pope Francis broke with Catholic tradition Monday by declaring that the theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real, and remarking that God is not “a magician with a magic wand.”

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” the pope said at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, during a plenary meeting dedicated to evolving concepts of nature.

The pope’s remarks came earlier today in a speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

“The Big Bang, that today is considered to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the creative intervention of God; on the contrary, it requires it,” the Roman Catholic pontiff said. “Evolution in nature is not in contrast with the notion of [divine] creation because evolution requires the creation of the beings that evolve.”

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314 comments

1 Kragar  Oct 29, 2014 1:36:25pm
2 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 1:37:31pm

The only shock is that this was a shock. That’s been the RC position since before I was born, in the Holocene. Le Maitre and Teilhard de Chardin were both priests 80 years ago.

3 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 29, 2014 1:38:00pm

IMpeech the Pope!!!!!1

4 stpaulbear  Oct 29, 2014 1:38:29pm

Well this should convince the christianists to get out and vote so this kind of thought doesn’t spread to ‘murica.

5 Kragar  Oct 29, 2014 1:38:47pm

The only thing new about this stance is Conservative nutjobs are crazier than they used to be

6 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 1:40:43pm
Pope Francis is more pro-science and anti-superstition than most Republicans:

Yes, he is.

I note though that Jerry Coyne has an article in which he illustrates why the Pope’s statement isn’t really much of a different thing than Intelligent Design.

Now anything with “God” in it will strike the wrong chord with Coyne, so he may be going a bit too harsh on the Pope.

Still, I wonder if Pope Francis is indeed just offering up a type of Intelligent Design, but with more mystery, that thing with which mystics wouldn’t be without.

7 Iwouldprefernotto  Oct 29, 2014 1:41:21pm

But what is his stand on Gravity? It’s only a theory.

8 lawhawk  Oct 29, 2014 1:42:10pm

Anti-science. Amoral. Ahistorical. Atavistic. [deleted] All apply to the GOP and conservative moment in the US at this point in time.

No doubt they’ll in turn ignore and attack the Pope for indicating that evolution and belief can coexist (which is essentially what Pope Benedict also stated).

The GOP has sought out these folks as their core constituency, and they are playing politics to keep them in the fold.

They’ll ignore the science on evolution (and force creationism into science classrooms where it has no business).

They’ll ignore science on climate change.

They ignore the science and public health policy experts on Ebola - hyping the threat and pushing for political solutions all while dragging their feet on the one thing that can stop Ebola - sending more money and experts to Africa to stop the epidemic at its epicenter.

The list keeps growing. And it’s not a good list to be on.

9 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 1:42:41pm

Apparently Francis missed the memo, the one the GOP advisors are sending around to all the GOP candidates, which states that one should preface everything with “I’m not a scientist”.

10 Shiplord Kirel  Oct 29, 2014 1:43:15pm

Speaking of Catholic science, the Vatican Observatory is the real deal.

The Vatican Observatory Research Group operates the 1.8m Alice P. Lennon Telescope with its Thomas J. Bannan Astrophysics Facility, known together as the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope (VATT). This is located at the Mount Graham International Observatory (MGIO) in southeastern Arizona.

from Observatory news: The Pope to young astronomers: “Faith enriches reason”

He said that it is a question of justice that all people can have access to Science. Pope Francis received participants of the summer course organized by the School of Astrophysics of the Vatican Observatory at the Apostolic Palace today.

11 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 1:44:36pm

re: #2 Decatur Deb

The only shock is that this was a shock. That’s been the RC position since before I was born, in the Holocene. Le Maitre and Teilhard de Chardin were both priests 80 years ago.

I think we can “credit” Benedict for any public surprise at this juncture.

Backwards-ass fossil.

12 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 1:46:38pm

re: #11 Testy Toad T

I think we can “credit” Benedict for any public surprise at this juncture.

Backwards-ass fossil.

Be specific, they’ve got XVI of them. Probably not more than a dozen fossils among ‘im.

13 lawhawk  Oct 29, 2014 1:47:38pm

re: #9 freetoken

Apparently Francis missed the memo, the one the GOP advisors are sending around to all the GOP candidates, which states that one should preface everything with “I’m not a scientist”.

They’re not only prefacing everything with I’m not a scientist, but then go one further and ignore what the actual scientists and experts say. Rather, they bring in junk science shills and charlatans to bolster their case (see John Coleman for instance).

14 Teukka  Oct 29, 2014 1:47:41pm

Also, doesn’t Francis hold some kind of Scientific degree (Chemistry IIRC)?

15 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 1:48:06pm

re: #7 Iwouldprefernotto

But what is his stand on Gravity? It’s only a theory.

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!

16 Kragar  Oct 29, 2014 1:49:40pm

The Catholic Church has long held the position that understanding science is another way to understand God and his creation. Its only the whackjobs out there who insist that faith supersede fact.

17 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 1:50:03pm

re: #14 Teukka

Also, doesn’t Francis hold some kind of Scientific degree (Chemistry IIRC)?

It’s not totally clear where it would rate in the US system, but he was a practicing chemist for a few years.

He attended the technical secondary school Escuela Nacional de Educación Técnica N° 27 Hipólito Yrigoyen[43] and graduated with a chemical technician’s diploma.[44] He worked for a few years in that capacity in the foods section at Hickethier-Bachmann Laboratory.[45] Before joining the Jesuits, Bergoglio worked as a bar bouncer and as a janitor sweeping floors, and he also ran tests in a chemical laboratory.[46][47][48]

18 Shiplord Kirel  Oct 29, 2014 1:50:05pm

re: #6 freetoken

Yes, he is.

I note though that Jerry Coyne has an article in which he illustrates why the Pope’s statement isn’t really much of a different thing than Intelligent Design.

Now anything with “God” in it will strike the wrong chord with Coyne, so he may be going a bit too harsh on the Pope.

Still, I wonder if Pope Francis is indeed just offering up a type of Intelligent Design, but with more mystery, that thing with which mystics wouldn’t be without.

It is a different thing from the fundy-grifter brand of intelligent design we know and loathe here in the states. ID proponents in this country claim hard, “scientific” evidence of intelligent design in nature. That ignorant position is the basis for their attempts to insinuate their stealth superstition into public schools, “Hey, it’s not religion, it’s SCIENCE!” (as though they would know). Their claims are necessarily accompanied by a variety of conspiracy theories alleging mass deception by the atheists, gays, and communists who somehow control the global scientific community and have managed to do for over 150 years.

19 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 1:51:21pm

OT, but some car pr0n of one of the 47(!) Tucker Autos still around:

oppositelock.jalopnik.com

20 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 1:52:48pm

re: #8 Vogon Poetry

Interesting link to Benedict’s statement on the subject. That suggests to me that the media may have invented this story by exaggerating the difference (if any) between the view of Francis and Benedict on science and evolution.

21 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 1:53:02pm

Nearly every creationist (who wants a physical Adam and Eve a la Genesis) I have read is ignorant of genetics and the discoveries of physical anthropology of the last several decades.

Put simply, it is impossible for every living male today to have descended from Noah.

It is also impossible for all humans to have descended from one male and one female (cocurrent with the former) 6000 years ago.

The genetic evidence for this is so overwhelming, that it is more decisive than the discoveries of Galileo et. al. about how wrong an Earth-centered creation was in describing our planet and everything else.

22 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 1:53:26pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

It is a different thing from the fundy-grifter brand of intelligent design we know and loathe here in the states. ID proponents in this country claim hard, “scientific” evidence of intelligent design in nature. That ignorant position is the basis for their attempts to insinuate their stealth superstition into public schools, “Hey, it’s not religion, it’s SCIENCE!” (as though they would know). Their claims are necessarily accompanied by a variety of conspiracy theories alleging mass deception by the atheists, gays, and communists who somehow control the global scientific community and have managed to do for over 150 years.

For the most part, mainstream Catholics keep their God on ‘his’ side of the Big Bang. (Admittedly, there is leakage, which they call miracles.)

23 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 1:53:42pm

The Pope still uses faulty theistic logic though. Neither evolution, nor Big Bang require God.

24 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 1:55:51pm

re: #23 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Pope still uses faulty theistic logic though. Neither evolution, nor Big Bang require God.

Well, that is their stock-in-trade.

25 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 1:55:58pm

If the GOP takes over the Senate, several committees will be chaired by very antiquated-thinking Republicans.

Now several of them are just type of politician in which beliefs are tools by which to be elected. But there are enough true believers in there to cause real problems.

The nature of the USSC is up for deciding the next few years, given the age of some of the judges.

26 Kragar  Oct 29, 2014 1:56:39pm

re: #23 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Pope still uses faulty theistic logic though. Neither evolution, nor Big Bang require God.

The Pope still believes in God? Thats a shocker.
/

27 bill d  Oct 29, 2014 1:56:46pm

re: #23 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Pope still uses faulty theistic logic though. Neither evolution, nor Big Bang require God.

The Coke vs. Pepsi challenge never has RC on the table either.

//

28 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 1:59:02pm

re: #21 freetoken

Nearly every creationist (who wants a physical Adam and Eve a la Genesis) I have read is ignorant of genetics and the discoveries of physical anthropology of the last several decades.

I succincted it for you. :)

29 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 1:59:23pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

Well, that is their stock-in-trade.

Note that that the existence of God “can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason” is basically a Catholic dogma. And it’s simply logically not true. But the true blue Catholics have to accept it as a matter of faith.

30 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 1:59:30pm

re: #27 bill d

The Coke vs. Pepsi challenge never has RC on the table either.

//

And Dr Pepper would kick all their asses ;)

31 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 1:59:43pm

re: #26 Kragar

The Pope still believes in God? Thats a shocker.
/

Um, that’s not what I wrote.

32 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:00:53pm

Well, according to St. Malachy’s prophecies, Francis is the last pope.
Apparently END TIMES!!11!!! is brought about by SCIENCE!!11!!

works for me.

33 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:01:40pm

re: #29 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Note that that the existence of God “can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason” is basically a Catholic dogma. And it’s simply logically not true. But the true blue Catholics have to accept it as a matter of faith.

Yup. That’s why it’s not the Roman Catholic Colloquium.

34 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 29, 2014 2:05:24pm

I think I’ll just leave this here:

Bachmann says the model laid out by former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) in his post-congressional life is a “great example” of what she’d like to do: some time as a talking head, a position at a think tank (preferably having something to do with foreign policy), premium speaking fees and maybe a book or two. But it’s no easy task becoming the next Newt Gingrich. Just ask him.

washingtonpost.com

35 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:06:01pm

re: #34 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

I think I’ll just leave this here:

But it’s no easy task becoming the next Newt Gingrich. Just ask him.

washingtonpost.com

She’s several wives behind.

36 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 2:06:54pm

It sounds like the Pope wants his flock to *gasp* embrace science.

After all, science is directly responsible for - how shall I put this succinctly? - everything humans know.

And to lawhawk and freetoken, FUCK YOU I’M TIRED OF YOUR SHIT WHY DON’T YOU TAKE YOUR LOGIC AND GO ELSEWHERE

37 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:06:57pm

re: #33 Decatur Deb

Yup. That’s why it’s not the Roman Catholic Colloquium.

Does the RCC take an official position on a literal Adam and Eve?

38 Charles Johnson  Oct 29, 2014 2:07:26pm

This guy.

39 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 2:08:34pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

What exactly has he reported that’s been “proven true.” Only thing I remember from “sources” was the blown eye socket business and that was Dim Jim’s doing.

40 Charles Johnson  Oct 29, 2014 2:08:42pm

There’s an article coming from TPM soon that Chuck isn’t going to like at all.

41 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:08:45pm

re: #37 EPR-radar

Does the RCC take an official position on a literal Adam and Eve?

vatican.va

42 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:10:30pm

re: #37 EPR-radar

Does the RCC take an official position on a literal Adam and Eve?

Most probably do, or at least did when I was a player. People don’t grasp how wide the umbrella of orthodoxy is within that self-declared ‘monolithic’ system. A goatherding grandmother in Sicily and the Vatican Curator of Meteorites in Arizona will both tell you they are true believers—only the level of literalism is different.

43 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 2:10:35pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

There’s an article coming from TPM soon that Chuck isn’t going to like at all.

Oooh, tease!

44 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 2:11:06pm

Aww, that’s sweet!

45 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 29, 2014 2:12:20pm

re:
#35

Michelle would also like to keep her not-day job as a TV talking head and would also like to get in on the whole Wingnut Welfare Gravy Train, I mean, “think tank” thing.

46 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Oct 29, 2014 2:12:29pm

If you are a Biblical literalist, then you must oppose Evolution, science in general and even logic.

It’s that simple.

47 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:13:04pm

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If you are a Biblical literalist, then you must oppose Evolution, science in general and even logic.

It’s that simple.

Plus the Bible itself.

48 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:13:34pm

It’s a bit moldy, but what gives - I’ve never seen a repudiation.

vatican.va

37. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]

49 urbanmeemaw  Oct 29, 2014 2:13:59pm

re: #2 Decatur Deb

Thank you! I was going to make the same point but your comment was more erudite than mine would have been!

50 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 2:14:08pm

Speaking of the World Series…

51 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 2:14:15pm

IIRC, the only supposed reporting that Chucky was infamous for concerning Ferguson was the assertion that Brown had been charged with second degree murder. He then fell back and said “Well, not charged, but involved with.” And when a judge rightly told him and the StL Dispatch that they couldn’t see Brown’s juvenile records, he began suggesting that there was a conspiracy involved to prevent people finding out the “truth.”

So what about the leaked police report shows he was “right”?

52 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:14:21pm

re: #48 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

This is preceded by

36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.

53 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:15:54pm

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If you are a Biblical literalist, then you must oppose Evolution, science in general and even logic.

It’s that simple.

Catholics began to ditch literalism about a millenium ago. That’s why their gospel choirs suck.

54 lawhawk  Oct 29, 2014 2:16:07pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

Oh, he got told the truth. Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown. The sky was blue. Blood is crimson red.

And there was an orbital blowout fracture. With x-rays! Oh wait, that was Chucky’s brother from another mother Jim Hoft.

55 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 2:16:32pm

Is today “The RCC Still Holds Some Silly Positions Day” and I just didn’t get the memo?

56 Mattand  Oct 29, 2014 2:16:33pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

There’s an article coming from TPM soon that Chuck isn’t going to like at all.

Dude! You can’t tease us like that! At least drop a hint.

57 KerFuFFler  Oct 29, 2014 2:17:14pm

Given that the movie, The Principle, ( based on the book “Galileo Was Wrong”) came out just this week, I think this was a perfect time for the Pope to reiterate the Church’s support of scientific reasoning and discovery. The person behind the book and the movie, Robert Sungenis is a radical traditionalist Catholic and it is important for the Church to stand up to his ignorant ravings. I’m sure Sungenis thinks evolution is a lie too.

I sure hope his movie flops big-time.

58 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 29, 2014 2:17:21pm

re:
#54

I wonder how well Archmoron blogger Chuck C. Johnson’s Senate candidate in Mississippi is going to do Tuesday.

59 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 2:18:10pm

We won’t know what the REAL Catholic Church thinks until Bill Donahue has his say! ///////

60 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Oct 29, 2014 2:21:18pm

re: #53 Decatur Deb

Catholics began to ditch literalism about a millenium ago. That’s why their gospel choirs suck.

Literalism was dying out in Christianity until the Fundamentalists rescued it in the name of sheer anti-intellectuals cussednedss.

61 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:21:42pm

re: #57 KerFuFFler

Given that the movie, “Galileo Was Wrong,” came out just this week, I think this was a perfect time for the Pope to reiterate the Church’s support of scientific reasoning and discovery. The person behind the book and the movie, Robert Sungenis is a radical traditionalist Catholic and it is important for the Church to stand up to his ignorant ravings. I’m sure Sungenis thinks evolution is a lie too.

I sure hope his movie flops big-time.

His derp came up the other night, and it cost me two hours of digging in some very strange places. This must be his second movie—the first was the one that duped Kate Mulgrew and a handful of real physicists into participating. We had a mention of that a year or so ago on LGF.

62 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 2:22:26pm

re: #28 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing

I succincted it for you. :)

I nominate “succincted” as the official LGF “Word of the Day”.

RBS

63 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 2:22:52pm

re: #62 RealityBasedEbola

I nominate “succincted” as the official LGF “Word of the Day”.

It seems like a perfectly cromulent term.

64 Feline Fearless Leader  Oct 29, 2014 2:23:36pm

re: #55 Testy Toad T

Is today “The RCC Still Holds Some Silly Positions Day” and I just didn’t get the memo?

They’re trying to deflect attention from National Cat Day and attention being paid to the true rulers of society - the Feline Overlord.

65 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 2:23:58pm
“The Big Bang, that today is considered to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the creative intervention of God; on the contrary, it requires it.”

Pretty sure Stephen Hawking understands the math involved better than any Pope, and he’s adamant that all that’s needed is the Law of Gravity.

“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist,” Hawking writes. “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.”

66 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:24:29pm

re: #61 Decatur Deb

You can get the book in 3 vols. for just $114.00. If that ain’t a bargain, I don’t know what is!

67 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:24:30pm

re: #63 Testy Toad T

It seems like a perfectly cromulent term.

very scrumtrulescent .

68 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:25:48pm

re: #65 goddamnedfrank

“BUT WHO WROTE THE LAW?!?!?!”

69 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 2:26:24pm

My favorite will always be a creation of Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, who once had to declarify a listener submission for the week’s Puzzler.

70 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:26:27pm

re: #66 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

You can get the book in 3 vols. for just $114.00. If that ain’t a bargain, I don’t know what is!

His doctor’s thesis from a highly positioned (though very low elevation) school in Vanuatu.

71 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:26:56pm

re: #48 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Unfortunately for Catholic conservatives, polygenism is no longer a ‘conjectural opinion’ per the genetic evidence mentioned by freetoken in #21.

A few decades from now, someone will probably get around to revising dogma to avoid this blatant conflict with reality.

72 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:27:23pm

Sungenis et al. are still minimally useful because they basically gathered all the Church’s geocentric teachings (Fathers, bullas etc.) in one place.

73 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 2:28:06pm

Gravity is just a THEORY!!!!! Why don’t schools teach the “Intelligent Falling” theory. Do you really believe that things fall DOWN just by accident? Think of the South Pole. Anybody can see that things would have to fall UP there in order to hit the earth. Only Intelligent Falling can account for that. If it were your so called “gravity” then when they fell down, they would fly out into space.

You can’t argue with that!

RBS

74 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:29:20pm

re: #71 EPR-radar

Unfortunately for Catholic conservatives, polygenism is no longer a ‘conjectural opinion’ per the genetic evidence mentioned by freetoken in #21.

A few decades from now, someone will probably get around to revising dogma to avoid this blatant conflict with reality.

The Catholic church does not change its doctrines. It just refines and understands them in more sophisticated ways.

(Tried to make that sound like sarcasm. We need a Theologian Font.)

75 Feline Fearless Leader  Oct 29, 2014 2:29:32pm

re: #61 Decatur Deb

His derp came up the other night, and it cost me two hours of digging in some very strange places. This must be his second movie—the first was the one that duped Kate Mulgrew and a handful of real physicists into participating. We had a mention of that a year or so ago on LGF.

From the Wikipedia entry on him alone the guy looks like a crazed professional contrarian.

76 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:29:42pm

re: #65 goddamnedfrank

Anyway, if asked, he would probably fall back on the utterly fallacious kalam argument. Hawking or not, that dog don’t hunt.

77 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:29:48pm

re: #72 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sungenis et al. are still minimally useful because they basically gathered all the Church’s geocentric teachings (Fathers, bullas etc.) in one place.

Fortunately, the doctrine of infallibility for papal pronouncements made ex cathedra was not in place at the time of the heliocentrism mess. It would have been embarrassing to have to walk back an ‘infallible’ pronouncement of geocentrism.

78 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:31:07pm

re: #75 Feline Fearless Leader

From the Wikipedia entry on him alone the guy looks like a crazed professional contrarian.

With mad conman skilz.

79 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:31:31pm

re: #77 EPR-radar

Well, it’s not secular jurisprudence, where the law usually doesn’t work backwards. If the doctrine concerning the Pope is true today, it was true for 2000 years. So…

80 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Oct 29, 2014 2:32:43pm

re: #79 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Well, it’s not secular jurisprudence, where the law usually doesn’t work backwards. If the doctrine is true today, it was true for 2000 years. So…

not to mention that admitting that one made a mistake undermines one’s authority, and undermining authority is a punishable offense in many places, so better just shut up and go along with it

81 steve_davis  Oct 29, 2014 2:33:07pm

The pope did NOT break with catholic tradition. Catholics since roughly 1950 have had the position that there is nothing irreconcilable between religion and evolution.

82 Feline Fearless Leader  Oct 29, 2014 2:34:58pm

re: #78 Decatur Deb

With mad conman skilz.

And one of those guys who seems to jump from one extreme side of religious across to the other extreme side without ever touching the middle.

83 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:35:06pm

re: #81 steve_davis

The pope did NOT break with catholic tradition. Catholics since roughly 1950 have had the position that there is nothing irreconcilable between religion and evolution.

That’s when it got down to the nuns teaching 5th grade catechism. They were adapting to it even earlier in the doctrine factories.

84 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 2:35:30pm

re: #78 Decatur Deb

With mad conman skilz.

I misread that as mad comma skillz.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:36:14pm

The Clintons should just rent someplace here in Kentucky until Tuesday. One or the other is always here now.

86 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:36:54pm

re: #84 klys

I misread that as mad comma skillz.

I saw mad coma skillz…

87 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:37:12pm

re: #86 Backwoods_Sleuth

I saw mad coma skillz…

Mad cow skillz…

88 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 2:37:30pm

re: #87 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Mad cow skillz…

Do result in mad coma skillz…

89 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:38:01pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

The Clintons should just rent someplace here in Kentucky until Tuesday. One or the other is always here now.

[Embedded content]

President Bush 43 is still busy clearing the north 40.

90 Charles Johnson  Oct 29, 2014 2:38:19pm

Just got the word - the TPM piece is coming out tomorrow morning.

91 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 2:38:21pm

re: #88 klys

Do result in mad coma skillz…

I see what you did there….

RBS

92 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 2:38:59pm

Just a reminder that we have the Big Bang theory (not the TV show) because Georges Lemaitre, an astronomer and Catholic priest, proposed it after studying the expansion of the universe. There was great resistance from other astronomers (e.g., Sir Fred Hoyle) and physicists because the theory seemed to be too “Genesis-like,” but based on the evidence we have now, it appears to be how things started.

The Vatican also has an astronomical observatory located in southeastern Arizona on Mount Graham (it’s part of a larger consortium of observatories). They’re doing serious research out there, not whatever Ken Ham thinks he’s doing out at the Creation “Museum.”

93 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 2:39:08pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

Just got the word - the TPM piece is coming out tomorrow morning.

You mean they’re not worried that Upchuck is going to have BREAKING NEWS FIRST???

/

94 steve_davis  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:01pm

re: #23 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Pope still uses faulty theistic logic though. Neither evolution, nor Big Bang require God.

Did he say they require it? I think he said they don’t demand it, but that it would be a perfectly reasonable way of viewing things. I’m a smart guy, for what that’s worth (most LGF’s are), and I tend to agree with him. I’ve always thought that we became fully human when our consciences evolved to the point where we recognized our spiritual nature.

95 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:02pm

re: #93 klys

You mean they’re not worried that Upchuck is going to have BREAKING NEWS FIRST???

/

That’s BROKE news…

96 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:13pm
97 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:36pm

re: #83 Decatur Deb

That’s when it got down to the nuns teaching 5th grade catechism. They were adapting to it even earlier in the doctrine factories.

The loss of prestige/authority the RCC endured as a result of the Galileo/heliocentrism debacle gave it a very hard lesson on the folly of incorporating empirically disprovable material into their dogma.

The RCC is sometimes capable of learning from its mistakes, and this particular one seems to have been learned as well as can be expected.

98 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:38pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

Just got the word - the TPM piece is coming out tomorrow morning.

Charles, the problem is the truth doesn’t act like Kryptonite to upChucky. It just rolls off of him like water off a ducks back. That being said, I hope it’s something that will be useful in blasting him with.

RBS

99 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 2:40:56pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s BROKE news…

He must be broke, he’s always begging for money.

100 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 2:43:31pm


“You did remember to thumbs up this article, didn’t you?”

101 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:44:43pm

re: #92 dholmes32

To be sure, we still have not the slightest idea as to how things got started. Contrary to popular opinion, the Big Bang theory doesn’t deal with the beginning of our universe, it deals with its evolution right “after” the beginning. Thus it, by itself, doesn’t provide the explanation of the existence of our universe. Our physics breaks down right at the (hypothetical) singularity.

Which, in the end, means just that we don’t know.

102 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 2:45:06pm

Brought to you by the people who will vote for Joni the Castrator:

Series of creationism lectures set for weekend

[…]

The lectures will discuss how Christianity has fallen under attack as people compromise their faith or completely turn their back on God. The use of textbooks in schools with the ideals of atheism, humanism and evolution as well as what mainstream media and Hollywood portray will also be examined. It will also look at why Christians believe what they believe and the evidence behind those beliefs.

[…]

Harrub authored the book “Convicted: A Scientist Examines the Evidence for Christianity” and “Dissecting the Truth.” The book explores if there is a Supreme Being, what that means for life and the purpose and meaning of it. Or if not, and human presence on Earth is the result of a cosmologic explosion, does that mean humans are just the beneficiaries of climbing to the top of the evolutionary tree of life. He also co-hosts a television show “Think About It.”
[…]

But he has a Ph.D., so there.

Sigh…. Jasper county used to be more “purple”, given that it used to be the home of Maytag and the industrial base made for lots of union voters, etc. Central Iowa used to be split, while eastern Iowa was more Democratic, and western Iowa more Republican.

But, what the rise of the religious right has made once (relatively) progressive states like Iowa into a battle ground.

Here’s just one of many videos with Dr. Brad:

Youtube Video

103 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:45:28pm

re: #94 steve_davis

Did he say they require it?

Um, how about reading the OP.

104 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 2:45:41pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

The Clintons should just rent someplace here in Kentucky until Tuesday. One or the other is always here now.

[Embedded content]

That is similar to Obama and Mitt becoming citizens of Columbus back a couple months before the ‘12 elections.

105 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:45:56pm

re: #92 dholmes32

Just a reminder that we have the Big Bang theory (not the TV show) because Georges Lemaitre, an astronomer and Catholic priest, proposed it after studying the expansion of the universe. There was great resistance from other astronomers (e.g., Sir Fred Hoyle) and physicists because the theory seemed to be too “Genesis-like,” but based on the evidence we have now, it appears to be how things started.

The Vatican also has an astronomical observatory located in southeastern Arizona on Mount Graham (it’s part of a larger consortium of observatories). They’re doing serious research out there, not whatever Ken Ham thinks he’s doing out at the Creation “Museum.”

The competing theory to the Big Bang model was a steady state model for the cosmos that would have no beginning and no end. en.wikipedia.org

One peculiar feature of steady state cosmology was that its main hypothesis was continual creation of matter in the universe from nothing.

Discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation was pretty much the death blow for steady state cosmology.

106 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 2:45:58pm
107 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:46:27pm

re: #100 De Kolta Chair

Can you source that?

108 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 2:48:24pm

God bless loud talkers in Starbucks. I’m getting another earful of conservative wisdom from well fed white people in their mid fifties.

Main takeaway so far is that the GOP is stupid because they can’t just shut up about wanting to deport immigrants who were brought here as kids. I guess that’s some kind of progress.

109 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:48:25pm

re: #106 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Freakn’ love it when the Prez shows what an evil SOB he can be.

110 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 2:48:48pm

re: #102 freetoken

Brought to you by the people who will vote for Joni the Castrator:

Series of creationism lectures set for weekend

But he has a Ph.D., so there.

*snipt*

Here’s just one of many videos with Dr. Brad:

[Embedded content]

And Dr. Brad Harrub’s Ph.D is in Anatomy and Neurobiology. So, in general, he is as unqualified as I am to speak about creationism/evolution. (With my law degree, I’d be qualified to speak about the legal history of teaching creationism in the public schools, but that’s as far as I’d go.) *snort*

111 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 2:49:06pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That’s not a very good party. I don’t see the little pouches of catnip.

112 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:50:20pm

re: #105 EPR-radar

It needs to be mentioned that the no-beginning model is pretty viable, just in the context of the multiverse, not our “local” universe. Which is one of the numerous reasons why BBT doesn’t “require” God.

113 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 2:50:38pm

re: #110 dholmes32

Thing is, anatomy is a perfectly fine discipline for studying evolution.

What Dr. Brad is doing is what a great segment of our society is doing - participating in an exercise of self-delusion and denial, because the truth is really, really painful.

Creationism is more about the human emotion than the human intellect.

114 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 2:50:52pm

re: #105 EPR-radar

The competing theory to the Big Bang model was a steady state model for the cosmos that would have no beginning and no end. en.wikipedia.org

One peculiar feature of steady state cosmology was that its main hypothesis was continual creation of matter in the universe from nothing.

Discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation was pretty much the death blow for steady state cosmology.

I was going to mention that but decided to stop where I was at. I think finding the cosmic microwave background radiation is one of the more remarkable findings of my lifetime. Esoteric, but so amazing.

115 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 2:54:44pm

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

God bless loud talkers in Starbucks. I’m getting another earful of conservative wisdom from well fed white people in their mid fifties.

Main takeaway so far is that the GOP is stupid because they can’t just shut up about wanting to deport immigrants who were brought here as kids. I guess that’s some kind of progress.

116 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 2:54:51pm

Woman loud talker just said:

“Do I want to pay somebody’s bills because they want to sit at home and watch TV all day? No, I don’t. Sorry, if that makes me a bad person then I’m a bad person.”

117 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 2:55:39pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank

Woman loud talker just said:

“Do I want to pay somebody’s bills because they want to sit at home and watch TV all day? No, I don’t. Sorry, if that makes me a bad person they I’m a bad person.”

Tell her I said she’s a bad person.

118 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 2:55:44pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

If Ferguson police actually are talking to a low-level blogging moron from Fresno, that right there is as good a reason as any to disband the whole damn police force.

(I don’t believe any people who can dress themselves without adult supervision would talk to Upchuck unless forced to do so.)

119 Charles Johnson  Oct 29, 2014 2:57:21pm

I know the hard core atheist mofos are scoffing at Pope Francis’s statement, and I actually feel kind of the same, to an extent. But the Pope’s squishy mystical approach to evolution is still preferable to the religious right’s young Earth creationists.

120 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 2:57:31pm

re: #107 Decatur Deb

Can you source that?

Crisis magazine: crisismagazine.com

Hail the second amendment!

121 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 2:58:02pm

re: #113 freetoken

Thing is, anatomy is a perfectly fine discipline for studying evolution.

What Dr. Brad is doing is what a great segment of our society is doing - participating in an exercise of self-delusion and denial, because the truth is really, really painful.

Creationism is more about the human emotion than the human intellect.

Agreed—if his About page demonstrated that he had done some actual work in evolutionary anatomy, I wouldn’t be so scornful. Instead, it’s very clear from his website that he is pushing creationism because his religious world view depends on it.

I understand that people like Dr. Brad hold this position because they believe the Bible is the foundation document of life, the universe and everything (and not the number “42”). I, on the other hand, believe that if people are re not telling the truth about the evidence for evolution, then they are lying.* And creationists cannot explain the evidence in front of us except to say, “But, the Bible….” That’s not evidence, that’s a presupposition.

*As far as I am concerned, if they’re not being truthful about evolution, then why on earth should I believe them to be telling the truth about God and salvation? Because that’s part and parcel of the creationism they’re trying to sell.

122 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 2:58:20pm

re: #114 dholmes32

I was going to mention that but decided to stop where I was at. I think finding the cosmic microwave background radiation is one of the more remarkable findings of my lifetime. Esoteric, but so amazing.

Detailed measurements of the variations in this background radiation end up placing significant constraints on cosmological theories, ruling some out and being consistent with others.

123 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:02pm

re: #115 klys

[Embedded content]

Earlier there was a very angry young woman in line having a fight with her boyfriend on her iPhone. I’m not sure if she had the thing on speaker phone, but I could hear him clearly from fifteen feet away.

He wasn’t respecting her feelings. She wasn’t respecting mine.

124 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:03pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank

I meat an American family in Florence who live in a “tax haven” country, because in the US there are the taxes, the moochers etc.
It’s a shame, since they seemed like good people, but gee…

125 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:04pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

There’s an article coming from TPM soon that Chuck isn’t going to like at all.

126 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:18pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

I know the hard core atheist mofos are scoffing at Pope Francis’s statement, and I actually feel kind of the same, to an extent. But the Pope’s squishy mystical approach to evolution is still preferable to the religious right’s young Earth creationists.

The Pope at least is trying to wrestle with the evidence and not try to hide it, downplay it or make it fit within the framework of the “infallible, inerrant Bible.” He gets points for that from me.

127 NJDhockeyfan  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:43pm
128 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 2:59:59pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

Dunno, some religious moderates think YECs are the atheist’s best friends. ;)

129 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 3:00:12pm

re: #120 De Kolta Chair

I think this is it: Image: Nuns_With_Guns.png

Thnx. Two of them look very much like my teachers—right congregation. OTOH, all Divine Providence sort of look alike.

130 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 3:01:25pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

I know the hard core atheist mofos are scoffing at Pope Francis’s statement, and I actually feel kind of the same, to an extent. But the Pope’s squishy mystical approach to evolution is still preferable to the religious right’s young Earth creationists.

Agreed. As far as I know, the Catholic schools don’t allow science teaching to be influenced by theology (unlike the YECs in the US).

131 NJDhockeyfan  Oct 29, 2014 3:01:52pm

Shocka!

132 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 3:02:02pm

re: #129 Decatur Deb

Thnx. Two of them look very much like my teachers—right congregation. OTOH, all Divine Providence sort of look alike.

You’re welcome, Deb. I amended my previous reply to show the original source. ;-)

133 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:02:19pm

re: #126 dholmes32

The Pope at least is trying to wrestle with the evidence and not try to hide it, ….

I suspect that Francis is simultaneously trying to remain relevant to the intelligentsia within the RCC, and also shifting the conversation in western countries away from RCC scandals and back to issues of dogma.

He is also trying to differentiate the RCC from the Protestant evangelicals who are working hard in traditionally Catholic countries, converting the RCC faithful into tongue-talking, Bible-waving, fundamentalists.

134 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 3:02:24pm

re: #126 dholmes32

He “rides the tiger”.

135 Testy Toad T  Oct 29, 2014 3:02:27pm

re: #130 EPR-radar

Agreed. As far as I know, the Catholic schools don’t allow science teaching to be influenced by theology (unlike the YECs in the US).

I would be perfectly willing to be a biology professor at Notre Dame.

I would, uh, have some reservations about SMU, and I would run screaming from a place like Liberty.

136 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 3:03:20pm

re: #124 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I meat an American family in Florence who live in a “tax haven” country, because in the US there are the taxes, the moochers etc.
It’s a shame, since they seemed like good people, but gee…

I live on the edge of Simi Valley, home of the Rodney King beating jury. I need to move back to Seattle.

137 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 3:06:27pm

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX, AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE

This lack of the month’s snowfall is quite rare. In fact, since 1882, only 17 other years have not had snowfall in October: 2010, 2003, 1998, 1988, 1965, 1964, 1962, 1950, 1944, 1940, 1939, 1933, 1924, 1907, 1994, 1888, and 1886.

138 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 3:06:38pm

re: #135 Testy Toad T

I would be perfectly willing to be a biology professor at Notre Dame.

I would, uh, have some reservations about SMU, and I would run screaming from a place like Liberty.

I think you’d be OK at SMU. You would even be OK at Baylor. Those universities do serious scholarship.

Liberty, on the other hand, is all about the ideology.

139 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 3:08:30pm

Ah, we are still trying to answer the chicken and egg thing.

Being a Catholic raised and schooled individual, I never saw a conflict in science and dogma, but I did get that education at a very liberal time for the Catholic church, the 60s and early 70s.

To me it is all still a mystery…one we may never touch.

Religion is about celebrating the mystery and using it as a powerful political and social control tool. I call that the Big Thumb Theory (In Religion, you are under God’s thumb and can be smitten at any time!)

Science is about digging and finding the mystery through discovery and using our brains to put together the puzzle. That is the Big Bang Theory (In science you are under the universe and its whims and a big ol’ rock hurling outta the sky can smite you at any time!)

/

140 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:10:11pm

re: #138 dholmes32

Indeed, last year an SMU professor wrote a scathing denunciation of the creationists in the Texas textbook wars:

smu.edu

True believers, of course, write off SMU as apostate.

141 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 3:10:28pm
142 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 3:13:30pm

re: #132 De Kolta Chair

You’re welcome, Deb. I amended my previous reply to show the original source. ;-)

Yup. At least one of them is from my school, second-right. Funny.

143 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 3:13:51pm


And on the seventh day God created man boobs.

144 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 3:14:52pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

Holy moley, that’s righteous!

145 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 3:15:28pm

re: #131 NJDhockeyfan

Shocka!

[Embedded content]

Very much like some of the people here in America (especially in the South) that celebrated the assassinations of the Kennedys.

Nothing humans do should really be that much a shocka.

146 Vicious Piebola  Oct 29, 2014 3:15:30pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Earlier there was a very angry young woman in line having a fight with her boyfriend on her iPhone. I’m not sure if she had the thing on speaker phone, but I could hear him clearly from fifteen feet away.

He wasn’t respecting her feelings. She wasn’t respecting mine.

Last week I was in line at the grocery behind a woman who was explaining to the cashier every last detail of her father’s decline in Alzheimer’s, stroke, paralysis, coma and finally passing away. I thought “she must be traumatized to lose her father like that” except that she then said it was three years ago.

TMI.

147 NJDhockeyfan  Oct 29, 2014 3:16:27pm
148 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 3:17:59pm

re: #144 De Kolta Chair

Holy moley, that’s righteous!

Small fuckn’ Internet.

149 Amory Blaine  Oct 29, 2014 3:18:02pm

smh

Latest MU poll shows Walker leading Burke among likely voters

Republican Gov. Scott Walker leads Democratic challenger Mary Burke 50% to 43% among likely voters in a new survey by the Marquette University Law School.

That represents a change from other surveys in recent weeks — including a Marquette poll two weeks ago — showing the race essentially tied.

The latest survey underscores just how much turnout matters to the outcome of the contest for governor. Walker’s gains were not among the broader population of registered voters, but among those who said they were certain to vote on Nov. 4. That’s the group defined as “likely voters” in Marquette’s polling.

In the new poll, 93% of Republicans and 82% of Democrats say they are certain to vote, reflecting a potential turnout gap between the parties.

150 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 3:18:50pm

Here’s the latest WP article on why we should elect a Republican so that the Republicans will stop wrecking the country.

Why Jeb Bush should run for president

washingtonpost.com

The whole goddamned country has gone mad.

151 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:21:13pm

re: #150 Skip Intro

Few things I am confident of regarding Presidential politics, but this is one: Americans will not elect another Bush unless the Democratic candidate is some really out-in-left base loon or is discovered being a child molester while on campaign.

152 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 3:22:09pm

re: #146 Vicious Piebola

Last week I was in line at the grocery behind a woman who was explaining to the cashier every last detail of her father’s decline in Alzheimer’s, stroke, paralysis, coma and finally passing away. I thought “she must be traumatized to lose her father like that” except that she then said it was three years ago.

TMI.

i have a colleague who likes to talk to his family on speaker phone. I can hear him from my office down the end of the hall from him. He seems oblivious, and I really don’t want to get into a discussion about how that’s “not cool” to talk on speaker phone a ll the freakin’ time!

153 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:22:20pm

re: #149 Amory Blaine

I saw one story which said that if Walker wins he will be a good candidate for President.

154 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 3:22:31pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

Yup. At least one of them is from my school, second-right. Funny.[Embedded image]

[Embedded image]

Bringing back the ol’ memories with those images. Are you in the photo by any chance? And, what is the year of the lower photo? I’m going to guess 1959. Looks to be a few years before my time in the process.

And our nuns were from a different order and had different habits, etc.

155 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 3:24:13pm

re: #154 ObserverArt

Bringing back the ol’ memories with those images. Are you in the photo by any chance? And, what is the year of the lower photo? I’m going to guess 1959. Looks to be a few years before my time in the process.

And our nuns were from a different order and had different habits, etc.

That would have been a couple classes behind me—thus 60-61. Know the nuns, the priests were new.

156 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 3:25:03pm

re: #150 Skip Intro

“Yes, the Republicans are crazy. Yes, a Republican president would be a disaster. Which is why I want Bush to run”. Gee. Her last argument is perhaps the only rational one (“what if the one crazy wins?”). She should have stuck with it.

157 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 3:27:38pm

re: #156 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

“Yes, the Republicans are crazy. Yes, a Republican president would be a disaster. Which is why I want Bush to run”. Gee. Her last argument is perhaps the only rational one (“what if they crazy wins?”). She should have stuck to it.

And that’s why even a Bush wouldn’t be the candidate—because he really can’t bring the crazy the whackjob party faithful are expecting.

158 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:28:31pm

I wonder what turn out will be like.

Around here there has not been much campaigning. Few signs, a few mailers. But you can tell it’s not a Presidential election year.

The only race in this part of the state that might be interesting to watch is over by the beach, for US Congress, where there is a close race which might flip this year.

159 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 3:28:31pm
160 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 3:29:03pm

And in further Ebola Madness, Dr. James Manning, on why you will catch ebola at Starbucks due to the sodomites there. (oh, and don’t go bowling either)

Youtube Video

Typical line “Starbucks, it’s a meeting place, they sit there with their computers. A lot of bodily fluids get exchanged, hand shaking….”

WoW.

RBS

161 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing  Oct 29, 2014 3:29:22pm

I really am not looking forward to the 2016 presidential campaign.

162 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 3:29:33pm

re: #159 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

I see Chuck’s getting his drink on early today.

163 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 3:30:12pm

re: #159 teleskiguy

His face says “dumb”.

164 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 3:30:51pm

Dogwalk. BBL

165 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:31:03pm

re: #160 RealityBasedEbola

Well, GDF is there… maybe we should ask him about this exchanging fluids with others?

166 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 3:32:04pm

re: #161 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing

I really am not looking forward to the 2016 presidential campaign.

Meanwhile, I’m investing heavily in tin foil and popcorn stocks.

167 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:33:10pm
168 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 3:34:19pm

re: #165 freetoken

Well, GDF is there… maybe we should ask him about this exchanging fluids with others?

Is that like when somebody says “You’ve got to try a sip of this hazelnut coconut peppermint latte” and you do it despite your better judgement?

Didn’t know GDF has posted that…. I got this from a friend.

RBS

169 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 3:34:53pm

re: #162 goddamnedfrank

I see Chuck’s getting his drink on early today.

Mad up, yo!

170 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 3:35:22pm

re: #167 freetoken

Be afraid:

AP IMPACT: IF EBOLA BATTERS US, WE ARE NOT READY

What if Ebola just dips us in an egg wash, and then lightly dusts us with Panko? Are we OK then?

RBS

171 ObserverArt  Oct 29, 2014 3:35:52pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

That would have been a couple classes behind me—thus 60-61. Know the nuns, the priests were new.

I was close. I was in first grade in 60-61. Know that era well.

172 bill d  Oct 29, 2014 3:36:37pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

Just got the word - the TPM piece is coming out tomorrow morning.

I’LL SUE!!!

173 dog philosopher  Oct 29, 2014 3:37:49pm

According to Gallup, the issues that the Democrats have been pushing such as gun control, global warming, or a supposed “war on women” are not issues that voters are concerned about.

according to gallup, mitt romney won the 2012 election by 4 points

174 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 3:38:10pm

re: #150 Skip Intro

Here’s the lateest WP article on why we should elect a Republican so that the Republicans will stop wrecking the country.

Why Jeb Bush should run for president

washingtonpost.com

The whole goddamned country has gone mad.

Still looking hard for that unicorn, that moderate Republican who can bring their party back from the brink. Me, I’d rather have somebody who pushed them over the edge. Then we might see some real change.

175 Dr. Matt  Oct 29, 2014 3:39:05pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

Just got the word - the TPM piece is coming out tomorrow morning.

Annnndddddd?!?!??!? Don’t leave us hanging!!!!

176 Dr. Matt  Oct 29, 2014 3:40:21pm

Embargos are fascist!!!!!! ….to elevenity!!!

//

177 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 3:40:36pm

re: #174 Targetpractice

Still looking hard for that unicorn, that moderate Republican who can bring their party back from the brink. Me, I’d rather have somebody who pushed them over the edge. Then we might see some real change.

I think we’ll see this in 2016. The base will not put with a candidate that is not one of their own after the debacles (from their POV) of 2008 and 2012.

178 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 3:40:37pm

re: #173 dog philosopher

I do think that the Democratic party is languishing.

For most of my life the Democratic party has been the “We’re not Republicans” party.

I think HHH was the last Democrat with both a hard agenda and a personality to bring it.

Since then we’ve had very strong “I’m not a Republican”, e.g., Carter, who was elected because he wasn’t Nixon.

We’ve had Clinton, who was elected because he wasn’t Reagan.

We have Obama, because he is not GWB.

179 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 3:41:27pm

re: #150 Skip Intro

Here’s the lateest WP article on why we should elect a Republican so that the Republicans will stop wrecking the country.

Why Jeb Bush should run for president

washingtonpost.com

The whole goddamned country has gone mad.

So exactly what likely Republican candidate do you hope to see run against the as yet undecided Dem candidate? Love it or hate it we live in a two party Presidential system.

180 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 3:42:17pm

re: #179 Rightwingconspirator

So exactly what likely Republican candidate do you hope to see run against the as yet undecided Dem candidate? Love it or hate it we live in a two party Presidential system.

Not my problem, pal.

181 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 3:42:29pm

re: #178 freetoken

I do think that the Democratic party is languishing.

For most of my life the Democratic party has been the “We’re not Republicans” party.

I think HHH was the last Democrat with both a hard agenda and a personality to bring it.

Since then we’ve had very strong “I’m not a Republican”, e.g., Carter, who was elected because he wasn’t Nixon.

We’ve had Clinton, who was elected because he wasn’t Reagan.

We have Obama, because he is not GWB.

Too true. Even if the Democrats are paralyzed on the economic issues by corporate control, they could at least still fight hard on the social issues. One positive agenda item that ought to be a no-brainer is getting the ERA passed.

182 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 3:45:58pm

re: #180 Skip Intro

Not my problem, pal.

It will be from inauguration day forward same as the rest of us. A Republican might win. That’s the reality It can happen.

Fact-The nation is best served by high quality contenders for office.

183 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 3:46:32pm

re: #160 RealityBasedEbola

Typical line “Starbucks, it’s a meeting place, they sit there with their computers. A lot of bodily fluids get exchanged, hand shaking….”

WoW.

RBS

If they’re exchanging bodily fluids shaking hands at Starbucks, they’re doing it wrong.

Image: giphy.gif

184 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 3:49:39pm

re: #181 EPR-radar

Too true. Even if the Democrats are paralyzed on the economic issues by corporate control, they could at least still fight hard on the social issues. One positive agenda item that ought to be a no-brainer is getting the ERA passed.

I’d love to see the Democrats be more forceful in calling out the Republicans hypocrisy on social issues- whining about big government but wanting to use it to enforce their morals.

185 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 3:49:44pm

re: #179 Rightwingconspirator

So exactly what likely Republican candidate do you hope to see run against the as yet undecided Dem candidate? Love it or hate it we live in a two party Presidential system.

I want Jeb (and even Romney) to run simply because the debates will rip the scab off the GOP Civil War. They’ll be attacked vociferously, and attack back in kind. The Party’s racial, revanchist, homophobic and class animus will be on display like never before. Whoever comes out on top will end up being damaged, having either permanently staked themselves to abjectly hateful positions or alienated the so-con religious right.

186 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 3:50:54pm

re: #182 Rightwingconspirator

It will be from inauguration day forward same as the rest of us. A Republican might win. That’s the reality It can happen.

Fact-The nation is best served by high quality contenders for office.

The actual fact is Iowa will set the stage for how crazy the GOP nominee has to be. It has nothing to do with me, and is nothing I have any control over.

187 dog philosopher  Oct 29, 2014 3:53:57pm

co worker just told me that the crash happens in the (java class) fertilizer call

188 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 3:55:34pm

re: #185 goddamnedfrank

I want Jeb (and even Romney) to run simply because the debates will rip the scab off the GOP Civil War. They’ll be attacked vociferously, and attack back in kind. The Party’s racial, revanchist, homophobic and class animus will be on display like never before. Whoever comes out on top will end up being damaged, having either permanently staked themselves to abjectly hateful positions or alienated the so-con religious right.

That would be a two-fer: high quality entertainment combined with a necessary exposure of the rot that festers within the GOP.

Unfortunately, the damage from this kind of primary doesn’t really seem to stick in the general as well as it should.

E.g., the Romney etch-a-sketch campaign in the general.

Edited to add: It’s noteworthy that one of the best anti-Romney ads of the 2012 election, “When Mitt Romney came to town”, attacked Romney from the left on economic issues and was put out by a Republican. Most Democrats don’t have the guts to do this.

189 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Oct 29, 2014 3:57:44pm

re: #187 dog philosopher

co worker just told me that the crash happens in the (java class) fertilizer call

I call bullshit.

190 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 3:59:30pm

re: #188 EPR-radar

That would be a two-fer: high quality entertainment combined with a necessary exposure of the rot that festers within the GOP.

Unfortunately, the damage from this kind of primary doesn’t really seem to stick in the general as well as it should.

E.g., the Romney etch-a-sketch campaign in the general.

I attribute that to the electorate’s stupidity and incredibly short term memory. It’s quite remarkable really. The American people say they don’t approve of the Republicans in Congress yet here they are prepared to give them a majority in the Senate. The whole thing makes me cynical as hell.

191 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 3:59:42pm

re: #182 Rightwingconspirator

It will be from inauguration day forward same as the rest of us. A Republican might win. That’s the reality It can happen.

Fact-The nation is best served by high quality contenders for office.

The nation is best served by two or more sane political parties. Supporting Bush because he’s the least crazy of the bunch does not in any way fix the problem.

192 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:00:04pm

re: #185 goddamnedfrank

Whoever comes out on top will end up being damaged, having either permanently staked themselves to abjectly hateful positions or alienated the so-con religious right.

Nobody is going to alienate the fundie base, and given the state of the country today I don’t see staking out odious positions as a losing proposition as long as it fires up the base. The problem is nothing seems to be able to fire up the Dem base, not even the thought of a Teahadist takeover of the country.

193 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:01:20pm

re: #191 Targetpractice

The nation is best served by two or more sane political parties. Supporting Bush because he’s the least crazy of the bunch does not in any way fix the problem.

Right on there. Jeb may not be Cruz, Paul, or any of the other crazies but guess what? He’s still going to be after the same voters that they are to get the nomination and you can bet your ass he’s going to reduce himself to pandering to loathsome shit if he wants the nomination that badly.

194 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:01:55pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

I attribute that to the electorate’s stupidity and incredibly short term memory. It’s quite remarkable really. The American people say they don’t approve of the Republicans in Congress yet here they are prepared to give them a majority in the Senate. The whole thing makes me cynical as hell.

Yes, a Republican takeover of the Senate, if it happens, has to be regarded as an endorsement by voters of the stupidity and evil that is the core of today’s GOP.

195 Vicious Piebola  Oct 29, 2014 4:03:11pm

re: #161 Rev_Arthur_Ebolaing

I really am not looking forward to the 2016 presidential campaign.

If it’s Hillary vs Jeb just shoot me now.

196 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:03:48pm

re: #195 Vicious Piebola

If it’s Hillary vs Jeb just shoot me now.

Ditto that.

197 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 4:03:49pm

Bush, Romney, Perry, Rubio, Huntsman …

One of these guys is going to run, and they’re going to try and carve out some semblance of a nuanced, middle position on immigration and the DREAM Act. And they’re going to be absolutely castigated for it, loudly, repeatedly and publicly.

Then there’s gay marriage. The entire line of GOP hopefuls is going to denounce the “activist judges” who overruled the State legislatures. There’s no way they can avoid this issue and survive the primary process, so the election by default becomes about stacking the Supreme Court with conservative Justices.

Same with abortion, which makes the election also a referendum on women’s reproductive freedom.

If Hillary runs I don’t see how the GOP hopes to reach 270 electoral votes.

198 Feline Fearless Leader  Oct 29, 2014 4:03:57pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

Yes, a Republican takeover of the Senate, if it happens, has to be regarded as an endorsement by voters of the stupidity and evil that is the core of today’s GOP.

And it will obviously be a broad mandate indicating that the US should immediately repeal Obamacare and declare war on the rest of the world.
////

199 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 4:04:29pm

re: #193 HappyWarrior

Right on there. Jeb may not be Cruz, Paul, or any of the other crazies but guess what? He’s still going to be after the same voters that they are to get the nomination and you can bet your ass he’s going to reduce himself to pandering to loathsome shit if he wants the nomination that badly.

I remember some trying to sell Mitt in 2011 as the least bad of the bunch. That disappeared as soon as it became obvious he’d say whatever he had to get the base’s vote. It’s what ultimately sunk him, all the stupid shit he’d said in the winter and spring coming back to haunt him.

200 bill d  Oct 29, 2014 4:04:31pm

re: #195 Vicious Piebola

If it’s Hillary vs Jeb just shoot me now.

Sorry, Obama done took mah gun

201 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:04:34pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

Yes, a Republican takeover of the Senate, if it happens, has to be regarded as an endorsement by voters of the stupidity and evil that is the core of today’s GOP.

I am really getting cynical honestly. I mean I get it. People aren’t satisified with Obama and the Dems but really to think that the GOP has the solutions for the problems pressing the country? Did these voters totally forget which party shutdown the government last year because their whiny base still can’t accept that ACA is federal law and constitutional? I hate to be this cynical but damn I’m tired of the voters short term memories and it horrifies me that they could well give the Senate to the GOP.

202 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:05:07pm

re: #191 Targetpractice

The nation is best served by two or more sane political parties. Supporting Bush because he’s the least crazy of the bunch does not in any way fix the problem.

The only way forward, IMO, is for the GOP to lose massively in several presidential election cycles (i.e., 40+ state blowouts in the electoral college). However, that appears to be impossible.

203 Vicious Piebola  Oct 29, 2014 4:05:44pm

I really want somebody to come out of nowhere and snatch the nomination away from Hillary, like Obama did in ‘08.

Elizabeth Warren maybe. Or even Joe Biden.

204 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:06:03pm

re: #199 Targetpractice

I remember some trying to sell Mitt in 2011 as the least bad of the bunch. That disappeared as soon as it became obvious he’d say whatever he had to get the base’s vote. It’s what ultimately sunk him, all the stupid shit he’d said in the winter and spring coming back to haunt him.

Right and I think Jeb(or whoever the annotated “sane” one is) will and I feel like McCain did the same thing in 2008. McCain who once could reasonably talk about taxes was reduced to calling any tax increase on the wealthy “wealth redistribution.”

205 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:07:47pm

re: #203 Vicious Piebola

I really want somebody to come out of nowhere and snatch the nomination away from Hillary, like Obama did in ‘08.

Elizabeth Warren maybe. Or even Joe Biden.

I do too. Another Bush and or Clinton election just sounds so tiring. Part of the reason why I honestly supported Obama over Clinton in 2008 is that I felt and I still do that this country needed fresh leadership from a new generation. The idea of yet another Bush and or Clinton race just rubs me the wrong way.

206 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:08:01pm

re: #198 Feline Fearless Leader

And it will obviously be a broad mandate indicating that the US should immediately repeal Obamacare and declare war on the rest of the world.
////

Repealing the ACA is a given, as is passage of the Keystone Pipeline, further gutting of the EPA, and not just ignoring climate change, but actually making it worse to please the Koch brothers. Forget the Supreme Court should a vacancy occur, and forget about getting federal bench appointments through too.

A GOP Senate with a GOP House will effectively shut down the government for two years, and amazingly the Dems will get blamed for it.

207 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 4:08:52pm

re: #192 Skip Intro

Nobody is going to alienate the fundie base, and given the state of the country today I don’t see staking out odious positions as a losing proposition as long as it fires up the base. The problem is nothing seems to be able to fire up the Dem base, not even the thought of a Teahadist takeover of the country.

The fundie base is self alienating. Even the most tepid moves towards rationality and moderation will fail their litmus test. If Jeb or Marco or Christie run it absolutely will be as a counterpoint to the hyper-zealotry of lunatics like Ted Cruz. And there will be blood.

208 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 4:09:09pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

I am really getting cynical honestly. I mean I get it. People aren’t satisified with Obama and the Dems but really to think that the GOP has the solutions for the problems pressing the country? Did these voters totally forget which party shutdown the government last year because their whiny base still can’t accept that ACA is federal law and constitutional? I hate to be this cynical but damn I’m tired of the voters short term memories and it horrifies me that they could well give the Senate to the GOP.

We have seen in other places with a two party system that if people are unhappy enough with the current majority party, they will vote for the opposing party, even if it is against their interests.

Even if the other party is the political arm of a terrorist organization.

209 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:09:50pm

re: #202 EPR-radar

The only way forward, IMO, is for the GOP to lose massively in several presidential election cycles (i.e., 40+ state blowouts in the electoral college). However, that appears to be impossible.

Right, the paradox here is the GOP may have a hard time staying electorially viable but they’re not going to get blown out like McGovern and Mondale did in ‘72 and ‘84, and there certainly is no sign of an internal Republican party movement to change the party like there was with the Democrats. Instead, the nuts continue to tell themselves that they need to be more right wing to win. Look at the Republican front-runners for 2016. Cruz, Paul, all are pretty far to the right.

210 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:10:58pm

re: #206 Skip Intro

Repealing the ACA is a given, as is passage of the Keystone Pipeline, further gutting of the EPA, and not just ignoring climate change, but actually making it worse to please the Koch brothers. Forget the Supreme Court should a vacancy occur, and forget about getting federal bench appointments through too.

A GOP Senate with a GOP House will effectively shut down the government for two years, and amazingly the Dems will get blamed for it.

On the other hand, the GOP could screw itself up if it gets control of Congress. For starters, the base is going to want their impeachment of Obama (never mind the impossibility of getting 2/3 in the Senate to convict). That wouldn’t go any better for the GOP than the impeachment of Clinton did.

211 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:11:21pm

re: #208 klys

We have seen in other places with a two party system that if people are unhappy enough with the current majority party, they will vote for the opposing party, even if it is against their interests.

Even if the other party is the political arm of a terrorist organization.

Right, I guess Churchill was right about Democracy. You know most ineffective form of government except for all others that have been tried.

212 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:12:42pm

re: #210 EPR-radar

On the other hand, the GOP could screw itself up if it gets control of Congress. For starters, the base is going to want their impeachment of Obama (never mind the impossibility of getting 2/3 in the Senate to convict). That wouldn’t go any better for the GOP than the impeachment of Clinton did.

This is what I’m hoping happens if they do for some awful reason get the Senate. Let them go too far and alienate the crap out of the American people but then again they had their pathetic Clinton impeachment trial and the American people still gave them the presidency in 2000. Still bothers me that Gore ran away from a very popular Clinton that year. We had a great economy. Agh. Sorry.

213 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 4:13:01pm

re: #191 Targetpractice

The nation is best served by two or more sane political parties. Supporting Bush because he’s the least crazy of the bunch does not in any way fix the problem.

Better than Cruz, that’s all I’m saying.

214 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:13:17pm

re: #210 EPR-radar

I think with a GOP Senate, impeachment is guaranteed, so the base will be pacified. That the Senate has to convict is a legal nuance that’s far beyond them.

215 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 4:13:41pm

re: #73 RealityBasedEbola

Gravity is just a THEORY!!!!! Why don’t schools teach the “Intelligent Falling” theory. Do you really believe that things fall DOWN just by accident? Think of the South Pole. Anybody can see that things would have to fall UP there in order to hit the earth. Only Intelligent Falling can account for that. If it were your so called “gravity” then when they fell down, they would fly out into space.

You can’t argue with that!

RBS

216 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:13:50pm

re: #213 Rightwingconspirator

Better than Cruz, that’s all I’m saying.

The sub I had for dinner would be better than Cruz. It at least has a stance on hunger.

217 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:15:26pm

I’m honestly not thrilled at the prospect of Clinton being the Dem standard bearer. It’s not that I dislike or don’t respect Hillary Clinton or don’t feel she would be a capable president but I really do feel that she had her chance and lost, and that it is time for new leadership in the Democratic Party.

218 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:15:28pm

re: #207 goddamnedfrank

The fundie base is self alienating. Even the most tepid moves towards rationality and moderation will fail their litmus test. If Jeb or Marco or Christie run it absolutely will be as a counterpoint to the hyper-zealotry of lunatics like Ted Cruz. And there will be blood.

It will be interesting to see if the GOP base can unify behind one of their own nut bars to provide a significant challenge to whoever the GOP establishment serves up as their choice.

The “nut of the week” pattern in the GOP 2012 primary was very apparent. All Romney had to do was outlast a disorganized clown car.

219 dog philosopher  Oct 29, 2014 4:15:58pm

re: #178 freetoken

I do think that the Democratic party is languishing.

For most of my life the Democratic party has been the “We’re not Republicans” party.

I think HHH was the last Democrat with both a hard agenda and a personality to bring it.

Since then we’ve had very strong “I’m not a Republican”, e.g., Carter, who was elected because he wasn’t Nixon.

We’ve had Clinton, who was elected because he wasn’t Reagan.

We have Obama, because he is not GWB.

on the other hand, the democratic candidate has had the most votes in 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections

220 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 4:16:16pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

I am really getting cynical honestly. I mean I get it. People aren’t satisified with Obama and the Dems but really to think that the GOP has the solutions for the problems pressing the country? Did these voters totally forget which party shutdown the government last year because their whiny base still can’t accept that ACA is federal law and constitutional? I hate to be this cynical but damn I’m tired of the voters short term memories and it horrifies me that they could well give the Senate to the GOP.

Then you look at things like TPM’s Polltracker (I don’t know what their methodologies are, I’ll admit)

Democratic Party Favorable 40.7% Unfavorable 50.3% -9.7
Republican Party Favorable 32.5% Unfavorable 52.3% -20.0

Congressional Generic Ballot Dems 42.7% Repubs 46.2%

221 goddamnedfrank  Oct 29, 2014 4:16:43pm

The best any GOP can do on gay marriage is try and say something bland, calculated not to offend, and is meaningless like “what’s done is done.” It will still infuriate the religious right.

Also, Jeb can’t mollify moderates with that because as Governor he fought, successfully, to defend a law that banned gays from adopting children. His reputation as a bigot is totally cemented.

222 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:16:55pm

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Still bothers me that Gore ran away from a very popular Clinton that year. We had a great economy. Agh. Sorry.

Sort of like the Dems now all running from Obama, even though the stock market is at record levels, gas is cheap, and mortgages are cheap, nobody is losing their house, and the financial institutions are not on the verge of collapse.

I expect the results this time to mirror those when Gore ran away.

223 prairiefire  Oct 29, 2014 4:17:20pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

Which one are you?

224 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:18:27pm

re: #220 BeachDem

Then you look at things like TPM’s Polltracker (I don’t know what their methodologies are, I’ll admit)

Democratic Party Favorable 40.7% Unfavorable 50.3% -9.7
Republican Party Favorable 32.5% Unfavorable 52.3% -20.0

Congressional Generic Ballot Dems 42.7% Repubs 46.2%

Something really needs to be done about how absurdly easy it is for Congressional candidates to win re-election. Congress can’t be less popular than being punched in the nose by a clown and still return well over 90% of its members. A lot of that is on Gerrymandering so I guess the lesson here people is as Tip O’Neill said “All politics is local.” Vote for the best people yo u can on the local level so you can at least somewhat decent people repping you on a federal level.

225 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:20:18pm

re: #222 Skip Intro

Sort of like the Dems now all running from Obama, even though the stock market is a record levels, gas is cheap, and mortgages are cheap, nobody is losing their house, and the financial institutions are not on the verge of collapse.

I expect the results this time to mirror those when Gore ran away.

Yet being politicians, the second Obama gets the credit he deserves on what he’s done, they’ll want him to campaign with them. I mean it’s part of politics and I understand that but it disgusts me. I am glad that I’ve vowed never to work on a political campaign again.

226 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 4:22:05pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

And perhaps it’s worth understanding that if Jeb was a Smith rather than a Bush, he would have a better chance of winning because the sins of his brother will be hung around his neck by the critics. Nobody mad about Iraq would vote for him right? Even though he had as much to do with Iraq as Saddam did 9/11.

What a system we have. The appropriate criteria for national leadership are not really in play on the right or the left. QVC candidates, aka chosen protectors of the corporations .

But the partisan anger sure makes for ratings and hits and page views. Who really made that video of “Chicago blacks turn on Obama”? That just had to have RNC fingerprints on it right?

227 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 4:22:25pm

And it’s the 90’s all over again here in VA-10 where we’re likely to give a Congressional seat to a former Bill Clinton hatchet job worker. Really the 90’s were fun. I enjoyed being a kid in that era but politically I’ll never get over the fact that we had an impeachment trial over lying about getting head in the oval office led by a bunch of adulterous hypocrites.

228 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:23:18pm

Meanwhile, back among the yoots,

Deep Political Divisions Harden Along Racial Lines.

The IOP’s fall poll finds young whites disapprove of President Obama’s job performance by more than a two-to-one margin (31% approve, 65% disapprove) while African-Americans continue to show a strong loyalty to the president, giving him a 78 percent approval rating (17% disapprove). This approval gap (47 percentage points) among Whites and African-Americans is significantly wider than the 36 percentage point gap in Obama’s approval rating between African-American and whites found in fall 2009 IOP polling. On the question of which party should control Congress, young whites preferred Republicans over Democrats by a 53 to 40 percentage point margin. African-Americans, meanwhile, said by a 68 to 23 point margin that they preferred Democrats running the legislative branch. Among Hispanics, Democrats also fared better, with 59 percent preferring a Democrat-controlled Congress with 34 percent wanting Republican control.

iop.harvard.edu

229 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 4:25:15pm

re: #186 Skip Intro

The actual fact is Iowa will set the stage for how crazy the GOP nominee has to be. It has nothing to do with me, and is nothing I have any control over.

Okay, who do you want to see in the Oval office next?

230 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 4:25:42pm

re: #213 Rightwingconspirator

Better than Cruz, that’s all I’m saying.

When the bar is set at Ted Cruz, i.e. the floor of Satan’s wine cellar, anything looks better by comparison. Hell, there’s some in the media who think Rand Paul is a better choice.

231 dog philosopher  Oct 29, 2014 4:26:20pm

hah!

it was helpful to have been able to recognize this:

pointer value: 0xcdcdcdcd

similar to 0xfeeefeee

232 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 4:26:58pm

re: #223 prairiefire

Which one are you?

Graduated a couple years before. That’s the only shot like it on the ‘tubes.

233 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 4:27:24pm

re: #231 dog philosopher

hah!

it was helpful to have been able to recognize this:

pointer value: 0xcdcdcdcd

similar to 0xfeeefeee

Are you saying you hurt the programs fee-fees?

/ducks

234 Higgs Boson's Mate  Oct 29, 2014 4:28:03pm

re: #210 EPR-radar

On the other hand, the GOP could screw itself up if it gets control of Congress. For starters, the base is going to want their impeachment of Obama (never mind the impossibility of getting 2/3 in the Senate to convict). That wouldn’t go any better for the GOP than the impeachment of Clinton did.

Many of the GOP’s congresscritters are bright enough to know that actually convicting Obama and thus removing him from office is a near-impossibility. They’re also cynical enough to know that a drawn out impeachment process in which Obama is investigated for everything from loitering with intent to high treason will be a great springboard for their nominee in 2016. Months of leaks, accusations, speculation and innuendo, aided and abetted by the MSM will do the trick nicely.

235 Skip Intro  Oct 29, 2014 4:28:30pm

re: #229 Rightwingconspirator

Okay, who do you want to see in the Oval office next?

What are my choices? I have been known to not vote for pres, since being in CA my vote doesn’t have any weight anyway.

236 dog philosopher  Oct 29, 2014 4:28:42pm

re: #233 klys

Are you saying you hurt the programs fee-fees?

/ducks

no - zee pointer is ze madame fifi, ze famooz pointer eencrement dansaire extroadinaire!

237 dholmes32  Oct 29, 2014 4:29:19pm

re: #177 EPR-radar

I think we’ll see this in 2016. The base will not put with a candidate that is not one of their own after the debacles (from their POV) of 2008 and 2012.

My boyfriend is absolutely convinced we’re going to have Ted Cruz as our next president. Note: he does not think this is a good thing, but it’s going to happen because our politics are whack.

238 Indy GOP Refugee  Oct 29, 2014 4:29:21pm

re: #230 Targetpractice

Have this thought experiment-Who last presided on the same platform and as per promises from the campaign trail? Not perfectly of course just in general. What Presidents really broke away from their campaign promises?

GTG work then commute.

BBL

239 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 4:29:34pm

re: #236 dog philosopher

no - zee pointer is ze madame fifi, ze famooz pointer eencrement dansaire extroadinaire!

Too many ees plus a cre and a ment and my brain decided that said excrement.

Especially given the other topic of conversation about GOP presidential nominees.

240 Kid A  Oct 29, 2014 4:29:59pm
241 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 4:30:07pm

re: #170 RealityBasedEbola

What if Ebola just dips us in an egg wash, and then lightly dusts us with Panko? Are we OK then?

RBS

only if there’s enough hot sauce…

242 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 4:30:09pm

re: #238 Rightwingconspirator

Have this thought experiment-Who last presided on the same platform and as per promises from the campaign trail? Not perfectly of course just in general. What Presidents really broke away from their campaign promises?

GTG work then commute.

BBL

His brother, the man who promised he would not engage in nation building.

243 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:35:59pm

re: #234 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Many of the GOP’s congresscritters are bright enough to know that actually convicting Obama and thus removing him from office is a near-impossibility. They’re also cynical enough to know that a drawn out impeachment process in which Obama is investigated for everything from loitering with intent to high treason will be a great springboard for their nominee in 2016. Months of leaks, accusations, speculation and innuendo, aided and abetted by the MSM will do the trick nicely.

If this starts playing out, I’d like to see several top Democrats start telling it like it is with respect to this bullshit (bonus points if it’s in the style of Chris Kluwe).

If outrage is the only thing that moves the needle for US voters, then there are innumerable outrages in the GOP just begging for a good bit of exposure.

244 ausador  Oct 29, 2014 4:39:08pm

Judge certified a class action for people who spent money on “Trump University’s” bogus real estate investment classes after 2007.

Judge Hands Down Potentially Crushing Ruling Against Donald Trump In Racketeering Lawsuit

245 Varek Raith  Oct 29, 2014 4:39:11pm

Hello.

246 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:39:17pm

re: #230 Targetpractice

When the bar is set at Ted Cruz, i.e. the floor of Satan’s wine cellar, anything looks better by comparison. Hell, there’s some in the media who think Rand Paul is a better choice.

Looping back to an earlier topic, I believe Satan’s Anus was pretty much the lowest point in creation per Dante et al. These days it’s a fine band name, and also a suitable nickname for any GOP POTUS nominee.

248 Ebolangelus  Oct 29, 2014 4:41:18pm

re: #243 EPR-radar

If this starts playing out, I’d like to see several top Democrats start telling it like it is with respect to this bullshit (bonus points if it’s in the style of Chris Kluwe).

This should have been the norm ages ago. With all of the damage that the GOP has caused over the years and all of the insanity that it’s endorsed, it drives me nuts to see that Democrat aren’t on the offensive around the clock.

249 teleskiguy  Oct 29, 2014 4:42:55pm

This Twitter account is hilarious.

250 NJDhockeyfan  Oct 29, 2014 4:43:21pm
251 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:43:27pm

re: #247 klys

Of course, every day is cat day.

252 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 4:43:53pm

I’m not worried about who I’d rather be ruled by when I look at who is running in the GOP pack, I’m looking at who will do the most harm to the party brand when they go down in flames. Because if Ted Cruz can not only win the nomination, but become president, then this nation is already fucked. It takes too many millions of Americans to put somebody like that in the White House to believe it’s a mistake.

253 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 4:46:08pm

re: #203 Vicious Piebola

I really want somebody to come out of nowhere and snatch the nomination away from Hillary, like Obama did in ‘08.

Elizabeth Warren maybe. Or even Joe Biden.

Imma holding out for Uncle Joe Biden…

254 Higgs Boson's Mate  Oct 29, 2014 4:47:18pm

re: #243 EPR-radar

If this starts playing out, I’d like to see several top Democrats start telling it like it is with respect to this bullshit (bonus points if it’s in the style of Chris Kluwe).

If outrage is the only thing that moves the needle for US voters, then there are innumerable outrages in the GOP just begging for a good bit of exposure.

It seems to me that more voters might be fired up if Democratic pols did start calling bullshit; clearly, unequivocally, and unashamedly. You know: as if they actually stood for something.

255 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 4:48:19pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

I’m not worried about who I’d rather be ruled by when I look at who is running in the GOP pack, I’m looking at who will do the most harm to the party brand when they go down in flames. Because if Ted Cruz can not only win the nomination, but become president, then this nation is already fucked. It takes too many millions of Americans to put somebody like that in the White House to believe it’s a mistake.

If Ted Cruz or similar is nominated, their only hope to win the general is to keep most/all of the habitual GOP voters (crazies and ‘moderates’) and appeal to enough clueless swing voters.

So if the unthinkable happens and we get Cruz as POTUS, the people most to blame will be the GOP moderates who are incapable of voting against their team even if its candidate is a disaster.

256 blueraven  Oct 29, 2014 4:49:13pm

re: #250 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

But its OK when they vilify John Kerry? How is this person supposed to be held accountable. What is the proper punishment for speaking one’s mind?

257 GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 29, 2014 4:49:58pm

God’s a kid with an ant farm, lady. He’s not planning anything.

258 Bubblehead II  Oct 29, 2014 4:50:03pm

Night Lizards. As usual, May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you and yours. See you in the A.M.

259 Targetpractice  Oct 29, 2014 4:50:24pm

re: #255 EPR-radar

If Ted Cruz or similar is nominated, their only hope to win the general is to keep most/all of the habitual GOP voters (crazies and ‘moderates’) and appeal to enough clueless swing voters.

So if the unthinkable happens and we get Cruz as POTUS, the people most to blame will be the GOP moderates who are incapable of voting against their team even if its candidate is a disaster.

A-fuckin’-men. If Ted Cruz is not enough to send the party’s supposed “moderates” screaming from the party, then there’s nothing that will. But I imagine that’s why they’re so desperate to have Jeb run, because they know there’s no chance of their staying home or voting for a Democrat, so they need somebody they can at least say was “better” than Ted Cruz.

260 Jenner7  Oct 29, 2014 4:50:25pm
261 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 4:51:23pm

Good evening LGF.

My laptop is dying :(

262 Vicious Piebola  Oct 29, 2014 4:52:24pm

re: #253 Backwoods_Sleuth

Imma holding out for Uncle Joe Biden…

Joe is good.

263 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 4:52:53pm

re: #261 Stanley Seabola

Good evening LGF.

My laptop is dying :(

What’s it doing?

RBS

264 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 4:54:15pm

re: #263 RealityBasedEbola

What’s it doing?

RBS

Thanks for asking!!!!! (halp!)

I turn it on & its like its in sleep mode. Screen never comes up. I keep turning it on and off until it finally boots.

265 ausador  Oct 29, 2014 4:54:21pm

Journalism ethics…lol

266 NJDhockeyfan  Oct 29, 2014 4:54:50pm

re: #261 Stanley Seabola

Good evening LGF.

My laptop is dying :(

Microbola?

267 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 4:54:54pm

re: #259 Targetpractice

A-fuckin’-men. If Ted Cruz is not enough to send the party’s supposed “moderates” screaming from the party, then there’s nothing that will. But I imagine that’s why they’re so desperate to have Jeb run, because they know there’s no chance of their staying home or voting for a Democrat, so they need somebody they can at least say was “better” than Ted Cruz.

If Ted Cruz ever gets elected President, I won’t care if the moderates run screaming from their party—I will be busy running screaming as far away from this country as I can get.

268 Varek Raith  Oct 29, 2014 4:56:40pm

re: #256 blueraven

But its OK when they vilify John Kerry? How is this person supposed to be held accountable. What is the proper punishment for speaking one’s mind?

Or the crap he’s said about Obama.

269 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 4:57:20pm

Man, the dead thread derper just never wants to stop, does he?

270 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 4:57:21pm

re: #262 Vicious Piebola

Joe is good.

Going with the strongest, even if that is defensive/reactive politics. Dwell on the USSC nominees from Ted Cruz or Scott Brown.

271 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 5:00:59pm

re: #264 Stanley Seabola

Thanks for asking!!!!! (halp!)

I turn it on & its like its in sleep mode. Screen never comes up. I keep turning it on and off until it finally boots.

annoyances-resolved.blogspot.com

Maybe?

RBS

272 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 5:01:33pm

re: #253 Backwoods_Sleuth

Imma holding out for Uncle Joe Biden…

re: #262 Vicious Piebola

Joe is good.

I love ole handsome Joe like nobody’s business, but I heard just last week, from a very knowledgeable Dem, that aside from being too plain-spoken for the timid, equivocating mainline Dems, Joe would never be able to raise the money it would take to win.

I am not a huge Hillary fan, but she’s going to be the best shot we have at keeping loons like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul away from the White House. Sad, but true, unless there’s somebody lurking in the wings who we haven’t heard about, I’d still rather have Hillary than anyone from the Republican party. I truly do believe that if a Republican somehow wins in 2016, it’s all over but the shouting (and there will plenty of shouting!)

273 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:08:24pm

re: #267 BeachDem

If Ted Cruz ever gets elected President, I won’t care if the moderates run screaming from their party—I will be busy running screaming as far away from this country as I can get.

You can come hide in my hobbit house bunker with me.

274 William Barnett-Lewis  Oct 29, 2014 5:08:29pm

re: #229 Rightwingconspirator

Okay, who do you want to see in the Oval office next?

Want to see? Russ Feingold. But, alas, that’s even less likely than my winning the lotto since I’ll occasionally waste a dollar but the former Senator from Wisconsin has stopped playing the game.

Getting into those who will run? Bernie Sanders or Kirsten Gillibrand would do.

275 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 5:09:18pm

I made the mistake of looking at patterns today and now I want more which means I need to finish something and this headache sucks. As does job searching.

I’ll bring my collection with me when I go move into B_S’s hobbit house bunker.

276 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:12:48pm

re: #271 RealityBasedEbola

annoyances-resolved.blogspot.com

Maybe?

RBS

I don’t know, dude. I’m a cave woman with computers.

277 Charles Johnson  Oct 29, 2014 5:13:50pm
278 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 5:14:37pm

re: #273 Backwoods_Sleuth

You can come hide in my hobbit house bunker with me.

Best offer I’ve had in years! Thanks.

279 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:15:42pm

Oh Royals!!!

Also

280 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 5:16:34pm

re: #261 Stanley Seabola

Good evening LGF.

My laptop is dying :(

Good luck with that. The only thing I can think of is to give the laptop a Viking funeral, which is both toxic and unhelpful. ///

281 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:17:30pm
282 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:17:37pm

re: #275 klys

I made the mistake of looking at patterns today and now I want more which means I need to finish something and this headache sucks. As does job searching.

[Embedded content]

I’ll bring my collection with me when I go move into B_S’s hobbit house bunker.

Most of the entire second floor of the bunker will be a crafting area. The rest (the part that opens to the east to the first floor turf roof) is for plants and cats.

283 compound_Idaho  Oct 29, 2014 5:18:18pm

re: #279 Stanley Seabola

11 of the players on the Royals post season roster were Chukars!

284 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 5:18:33pm

re: #282 Backwoods_Sleuth

Most of the entire second floor of the bunker will be a crafting area. The rest (the part that opens to the east to the first floor turf roof) is for plants and cats.

Oh good, I’m glad you’ve been planning for my arrival.

;)

285 EPR-radar  Oct 29, 2014 5:20:24pm

re: #267 BeachDem

If Ted Cruz ever gets elected President, I won’t care if the moderates run screaming from their party—I will be busy running screaming as far away from this country as I can get.

That won’t help as much as you’d like, because POTUS Cruz would be able to hit any location on earth with a nuclear missile.

286 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:24:55pm

re: #267 BeachDem

If Ted Cruz ever gets elected President, I won’t care if the moderates run screaming from their party—I will be busy running screaming as far away from this country as I can get.

Or Rand Paul. I put them both in the fucking scary as hell scenario.

287 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 5:25:15pm

re: #285 EPR-radar

That won’t help as much as you’d like, because POTUS Cruz would be able to hit any location on earth with a nuclear missile.

Thanks for cheering me up.

288 bratwurst  Oct 29, 2014 5:25:22pm

If you were concerned that National Review was falling behind the wingnut trend of demonizing foreign aid workers, let your heart be not troubled:

donotlink.com

289 danarchy  Oct 29, 2014 5:28:55pm

re: #264 Stanley Seabola

Thanks for asking!!!!! (halp!)

I turn it on & its like its in sleep mode. Screen never comes up. I keep turning it on and off until it finally boots.

Unfortunately that could be a symptom of several things. The first thing I would do is check the hard drive connection, but it could be a flaky connection on the LCD or a flaky lcd incverter, or a dieing motherboard. If it was a memory issue I would expect there to be beeping involved. The hard drive is usually very easy to get at the LCD and inverter not so much. If it is the motherboard you are SOL

Or it may actually not be shutting down completely and getting stuck in sleep or hibernation mode which could be a software thing.

Wish I could give you a better answer, but without actually having access to the laptop it really isn’t possible to pin down much better than that.

290 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:29:38pm

re: #282 Backwoods_Sleuth

Most of the entire second floor of the bunker will be a crafting area. The rest (the part that opens to the east to the first floor turf roof) is for plants and cats.

Ooh, can I come too? I’ll carpool with Klys.
Will there be room for a loom?We’ll need fabric, right?

291 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:31:19pm

re: #290 calochortus

Ooh, can I come too? I’ll carpool with Klys.
Will there be room for a loom?We’ll need fabric, right?

Oh yes! There are three other looms (plus a spinning wheel) that would love a new one to join!

292 freetoken  Oct 29, 2014 5:31:36pm

re: #219 dog philosopher

on the other hand, the democratic candidate has had the most votes in 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections

Yes, but in those 26 years has had only a few years where they also controlled Congress and have been able to get anything passed.

293 BeachDem  Oct 29, 2014 5:32:29pm

re: #288 bratwurst

If you were concerned that National Review was falling behind the wingnut trend of demonizing foreign aid workers, let your heart be not troubled:

donotlink.com

The article…the comments…argghh.

I guess it’s time for “Wise Words from Tina Dupuy” once again.

294 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:33:42pm

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

Oh yes! There are three other looms (plus a spinning wheel) that would love a new one to join!

Kewl! I’ll bring a couple of spinning wheels too. Can’t have too many fiber toys, can you? What kind of looms/wheel do you have?

295 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 5:38:05pm

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

Oh yes! There are three other looms (plus a spinning wheel) that would love a new one to join!

Can I show up? A lot of people say I’m a Loom.

RBS

296 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 5:38:39pm

re: #295 RealityBasedEbola

Can I show up? A lot of people say I’m a Loom.

RBS

…don’t you mean loon?

/ducks

297 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:38:57pm

re: #294 calochortus

Kewl! I’ll bring a couple of spinning wheels too. Can’t have too many fiber toys, can you? What kind of looms/wheel do you have?

Spinning wheel is a traditional Ashford.
One loom is from Scandinavia. Another is a very small Amish child’s loom. The third is a Navajo rug loom. And any time when weather is nice, I have another rug loom that I throw together from tree limbs outdoors to hang from the walnut tree.

298 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:40:10pm

re: #289 danarchy

Thanks much, appreciated.

It’s really old, a compaq, for real. So its done it’s duty.

299 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:40:31pm

re: #295 RealityBasedEbola

Can I show up? A lot of people say I’m a Loom.

RBS

You can bring your lathe and other woodworking tools to make cool wood thingies.

300 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:40:42pm

re: #290 calochortus

Ooh, can I come too? I’ll carpool with Klys.
Will there be room for a loom?We’ll need fabric, right?

That’s yours?????

301 Decatur Deb  Oct 29, 2014 5:43:54pm

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

Oh yes! There are three other looms (plus a spinning wheel) that would love a new one to join!

Post-apocalyptic paradise is starting to sound like a sweatshop.

302 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:44:12pm

re: #297 Backwoods_Sleuth

The loom picture is my AVL. I also have a very cool folding Swedish loom (a Göta) which clamps on to a table or shelf. Then there’s the modified Toika spinning wheel which was my high school graduation present lo these many years ago (I put an Ashford lace flyer on it) and my Hansen mini-spinner.

303 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:44:35pm

re: #300 Stanley Seabola

That’s yours?????

Yep. :)

304 RealityBasedEbola  Oct 29, 2014 5:45:39pm

re: #296 klys

…don’t you mean loon?

/ducks

Could be… :-)

RBS

305 CriticalDragon1177  Oct 29, 2014 5:47:39pm

Charles Johnson,

The GOP has actually been to the right of the Pope for sometime now, with their massive opposition to government helping the poor, support for the death penalty and pro gun fanaticism.

306 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:49:45pm

re: #302 calochortus

The loom picture is my AVL. I also have a very cool folding Swedish loom (a Göta) which clamps on to a table or shelf. Then there’s the modified Toika spinning wheel which was my high school graduation present lo these many years ago (I put an Ashford lace flyer on it) and my Hansen mini-spinner.

Your loom looks like my Scandinavian one, but mine might be somewhat smaller. One of my sisters gave it to me for my birthday back in 1975. I love it.

307 Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 29, 2014 5:51:03pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

Post-apocalyptic paradise is starting to sound like a sweatshop.

Hey, those fabrics don’t weave themselves!
And we don’t take no stinking gold or bitcoins.

308 Stanley Seabola  Oct 29, 2014 5:51:29pm

re: #303 calochortus

Yep. :)

Wow, beautiful. Impressive. Wow.

309 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:53:38pm

re: #306 Backwoods_Sleuth

Your loom looks like my Scandinavian one, but mine might be somewhat smaller. One of my sisters gave it to me for my birthday back in 1975. I love it.

Mine has a 40” weaving width, and the back folds up to save space when not in use. Many years ago I had a beautiful Glimakra countermarche loom, but those things take up a lot of real estate. Not practical in most houses.

The AVL is technically a jack loom, but it looks a lot like the traditional Scandinavian because of the way the harnesses are hung.

310 De Kolta Chair  Oct 29, 2014 5:54:21pm

re: #275 klys

Stick with it, both things I mean. Just today I got hired to work the holidays at Macy’s. At this rate, I might be a balloon in next year’s Thanksgiving parade. ;-)

311 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:54:46pm

re: #308 Stanley Seabola

Thank you. I do enjoy being able to create whatever fabric I’d like.

312 calochortus  Oct 29, 2014 5:55:33pm

Dinner calls. Technically, Mr. C. is doing the calling, but the bottom line is that my dinner awaits.

BBL

313 klystron  Oct 29, 2014 5:56:05pm

re: #310 De Kolta Chair

Stick with it, both things I mean. Just today I got hired for to work the holidays at Macy’s. At this rate, I might be a balloon next year’s Thanksgiving parade. ;-)

Yeah, there was just a …setback, I guess? On Monday and it’s been a rough week. I’m trying to focus on the program that’s part of my portfolio this week instead, to feel a little better about things.

314 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Oct 30, 2014 7:32:33am

having grown up within Texas and a deeply “Conservative” family and church, I can tell you that Popes in general and the Catholic Church in particular might as well be Muslim or space aliens for all they care- the only “real” Christians are those that follow their strictly held ideology based on a culturally imperial “America-first”* mindset. To them, Catholics are not “real” Christians and the Pope is a fraud in a dress and funny hat. So the headline of this article to me seems a little naive. American Southern Chrsitians have been far right wing for 50 years now, ever since the Civil Rights movement.

*American First means white, male-dominated, “God loves rich people and gives them their wealth as a reward” -type of mindset.


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