Video: The Science of Internet Trolls

U mad bro?
Internet • Views: 48,645

YouTube

A lot of the points made in this amusing video are pretty obvious, but it’s always a good idea to remind ourselves that trolls want you to get upset and angry at them.

I’m not sure I agree that ignoring trolls is the best tactic in all cases, though; usually it is, but sometimes it’s better to respond in ways that subvert their sadistic intentions — with facts and mockery, refusing to take their outrage bait and ignoring their transparent leading questions.

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117 comments
1
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:20:11am

I’m a big proponent of mockery myself

2
Belafon  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:26:20am

Over at Balloon Juice, we would accuse trolls of being DougJ in disguise. That really did set a few of them off.

3
Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:26:23am

Can we just cut to the chase and re-name this video “The Chuck C. Johnson Story”?

4
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:28:13am

Speaking of trolls…

The alleged ambush occurred when Fiorina hosted a “right to life” forum at the Greater Des Moines botanical garden. Entering the rally, before a crowd of about 60 people, she directed around 15 young children towards a makeshift stage.

The problem, one parent said, was that the children’s parents had not given Fiorina permission to have their children sit with her - in front of a huge banner bearing the image of an unborn foetus - while she talked about harvesting organs from aborted babies.

“The kids went there to see the plants,” said Chris Beck, the father of four-year-old Chatham, one of the children Fiorina appeared with. “She ambushed my son’s field trip.”

5
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:29:16am

The anti-science idiots are out in force. OMG - a winter storm disproves global warming!

Nope. It doesn’t. In fact, global warming and higher temperatures means more extreme storms, and higher storm totals.

Warmer air means more moisture is in the atmosphere, so when it hits cold air, there’s more precipitation that can result. Warmer ocean temps also feed the energy into these storms.

That’s the same thing with lake effect snows - you want temps to get cold so the lakes freeze over to shut off the energy/precip source.

Global warming ends up making for more severe weather.

It figures the GOP and Fox News nuts want to ignore all that.

6
Dave80  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:30:00am

The little guy he draws is the Ginger Furby perfect.

7
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:33:49am

re: #4 Kragar

Not just a troll, but a GOPer who purposefully surrounds themselves with kids to make a political spectacle. Wasn’t the GOP complaining about that with the current President only a short time ago?

Oh wait, it’s a Democrat (and black) president. Never mind. The same rules don’t apply. /

8
Eventual Carrion  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:34:20am

re: #5 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

The anti-science idiots are out in force. OMG - a winter storm disproves global warming!

Nope. It doesn’t. In fact, global warming and higher temperatures means more extreme storms, and higher storm totals.

Warmer air means more moisture is in the atmosphere, so when it hits cold air, there’s more precipitation that can result. Warmer ocean temps also feed the energy into these storms.

That’s the same thing with lake effect snows - you want temps to get cold so the lakes freeze over to shut off the energy/precip source.

Global warming ends up making for more severe weather.

It figures the GOP and Fox News nuts want to ignore all that.

Yep. Basic water cycle. More/longer heat, more evaporation, more moisture in air, more when it comes down. Hence heavier rains/floods and heavier snow falls. 5th grade stuff here.

9
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:34:32am
10
jaunte  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:36:18am

Senate troll Ted Cruz finding out he has no friends:

11
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:36:37am

re: #8 Eventual Carrion

This nitwit then tried to get me to explain why Greenland was warm in the 14th century.

All to ignore the forcing resulting from human-based emissions that are speeding up existing climate-change processes. Dumping more CO2 into atmosphere. Dumping more methane and other greenhouse gases is forcing the atmosphere to retain more heat, causing temperatures to rise significantly and far faster than if we had not done so.

12
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:38:02am

re: #1 Kragar

I’m a big proponent of mockery myself

Ceaseless, unending mockery is the best.

13
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:38:46am

re: #10 jaunte

No one likes Ted other than some wingnut websites and fundamentalists who for some reason missed the Carson train.

14
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:39:54am

re: #12 freetoken

15
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:41:14am

re: #13 freetoken

No one likes Ted other than some wingnut websites and fundamentalists who for some reason missed the Carson train.

So why the fuck is he polling so well? Lack of other viable options?

16
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:42:56am

re: #15 Eclectic Cyborg

So why the fuck is he polling so well? Lack of other viable options?

Trump makes him seem sane and nobody wants another fucking Bush.

17
Alephnaught  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:42:57am

And of course, newspapers can troll too with their front pages. Obvious recent example is a certain New York tabloid, but here is the front page of today’s edition of the UK’s leading free newspaper.

18
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:43:02am

re: #15 Eclectic Cyborg

So why the fuck is he polling so well? Lack of other viable options?

Nationally he’s only got about one out of six or seven Republicans supporting him to get the nomination.

Pretty much the hard religious right.

19
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:43:32am

re: #14 Kragar

Embedded Image

Often they fall under the heading of ‘Not Even Wrong’.

20
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:43:58am

Speaking of science:

FDA warns of danger from “male enhancement” gum

21
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:45:36am

re: #18 freetoken

Nationally he’s only got about one out of six or seven Republicans supporting him to get the nomination.

Pretty much the hard religious right.

I think a lot of Evangelicals recognize that Trump is not really one of them. Also, the very things that Cruz has done to make him a pariah in the Senate make him a hero to Teabaggers.

22
ausador  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:45:58am

DAMN MOOCHERS TAKING SOCIAL SECURITY FREE STUFF FOR 40+ YEARS!

23
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:46:10am
24
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:47:03am

re: #22 ausador

Its only a matter of time before Democrats impose “The Sixty”

/obscure reference mode

25
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:48:21am

Two popularity polls in Iowa show Trump and Cruz about equal there:

and

loras.edu

26
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:48:41am

re: #23 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And then if they would have protested in the streets Fox would have called them “thugs” and “rioters”

27
nines09  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:48:58am

re: #4 Kragar

She really is one piece of F’d up work. It’s all Carly, all the time. Money doesn’t seem to have satisfied her. Lying comes naturally. Cratering companies doesn’t faze her. Pissing all over people seems to be her strong point.

28
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:51:09am
29
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:52:08am
30
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:52:18am
31
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:52:21am

Speaking of Cruz vs. Trump, here’s a clip from a couple of days ago, of supporters of each, the worse of their kind:

Rep. Steve King, Katrina Pierson discussing Sarah Palin’s endorsement to Donald Trump with Don Lemon

Kind of makes you want to gouge out your eyes.

32
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:52:48am

re: #20 freetoken

Speaking of science:

FDA warns of danger from “male enhancement” gum

Male enhancement gum??

I still can’t believe I live in a world where people are stupid enough to fall for that.

33
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:53:04am

re: #9 Kragar

[Embedded content]

34
freetoken  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:53:55am

re: #32 Eclectic Cyborg

I still can’t believe I live in a world where people are stupid enough to fall for that.

There’s a sucker born every day, so to speak.

Witness the leading GOP candidates.

35
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:55:06am

The Last 5 Presidents of the United States according to the GOP:

- Ronald Reagan
- George Bush Sr.
- Barack Obama
- Barack Obama
- Barack Obama

36
Eventual Carrion  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:55:57am

re: #32 Eclectic Cyborg

Male enhancement gum??

I still can’t believe I live in a world where people are stupid enough to fall for that.

But you should see my tongue.

37
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:55:59am

re: #31 freetoken

Speaking of Cruz vs. Trump, here’s a clip from a couple of days ago, of supporters of each, the worse of their kind:

[Embedded content]

Kind of makes you want to gouge out your eyes.

For a moment there I thought that was Trevor Noah in the middle.

38
WhatEVs  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:56:57am

re: #35 Eclectic Cyborg

The Last 5 Presidents of the United States according to the GOP:

- Ronald Reagan
- Bill Clinton
- Barack Obama
- Barack Obama
- Barack Obama

I think this is more like it. Because everything since St. Ronnie was a disaster to them.

39
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:57:23am
40
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:57:24am

re: #28 klys (maker of Silmarils)

If you read the article, of course, there’s an “invitation to testify” and not necessarily a subpoena, but …progress?

41
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:58:16am

re: #30 Kragar

I think Palin was trying to blame Obama for all of the problems at the VA. I had to use the Stephen Colbert taser first, then I figgerred it out.

42
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 21, 2016 • 11:59:19am

OT, but I looked up the hypothetical parameters for hypothetical Planet 9.

It would only be about 10 Times Earth mass, or about 68% the size of Uranus, and only 2-4 times bigger than Earth in Diameter.

There is no way that Planet 9 Would clear its orbit.

Either call it Dwarf Planet 6 under the IAU, or Planet 15 if we go back to the “Spherical & Orbiting the sun definition. Because the IAU’s definition is bollocks.

43
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:00:04pm

re: #30 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah, but when he came back he had to endure having a black President and the shame of his mother having her ass handed to her in the election, which was all totes Obama’s fault.

44
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:01:49pm

re: #39 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“Why yes officer, those are assault rifles you see there. Yes, those are high capacity magazines we’re using. Yes that box over there is full of ammo but I swear to you I am NOT a threat!”

45
WhatEVs  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:02:12pm
46
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:03:15pm

re: #4 Kragar

Speaking of trolls…

[Embedded content]

Those kids were temp contractors. The real children were laid off months ago…

47
Eventual Carrion  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:03:43pm

re: #44 Eclectic Cyborg

“Why yes officer, those are assault rifles you see there. Yes, those are high capacity magazines we’re using. Yes that box over there is full of ammo but I swear to you I am NOT a threat!”

Officer: Yes, I see what you mean. I don’t see any black child with a toy gun so all must be ok here. Carry on.

48
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:04:30pm
49
KGxvi  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:07:13pm

re: #2 Belafon

Over at Balloon Juice, we would accuse trolls of being DougJ in disguise. That really did set a few of them off.

I’m still fairly certain that a few of them were DougJ

50
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:14:12pm

What would Jesus call this dude? Oh yeah HYPOCRITE.

51
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:15:26pm
52
nines09  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:16:07pm

re: #28 klys (maker of Silmarils)

He’ll walk. I could do 3 to 5 for……… “Further, since the crime of robbery is generally defined to include the threat of force as an element, a person can be charged with aggravated, armed, or first degree robbery even if the weapon is fake. In other words, as long as the person being robbed believes that the individual committing the robbery has a real gun, the individual can be charged with heightened robbery charges even if the “gun” turns out to be a toy”

53
ausador  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:16:59pm

2012: It’s a good thing to encourage kids to eat better…
2016: The First Lady has no business being involved in this…

54
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:17:36pm

re: #42 Ziggy_TARDIS

I’ll leave this here for anyone who might be interested in doing some follow-up.

It is, granted, one side of the story, but the linked paper is interesting and worth a look, I think.

55
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:28:08pm
56
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:28:40pm
57
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:29:46pm

re: #54 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I did read it, and I do think he has something of a point.

However, we come back to the same point, where a planet’s size is not the only factor, but also its distance.

If Pluto had Mercury’s or Venus’s orbit, it would be a planet. Maybe even the Earth’s orbit. Not only that, but a Tethys-sized planet around a red dwarf would be considered a planet, while an Earth-sized planet around an O-type star like Zeta Ophiuchi would be a dwarf planet.

This article was before the Planet 9, but it largely gets the points. Notice how close Planet 9 is to that line though.

58
Kragar  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:30:49pm

re: #55 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Just one question:

If he showed up at the FBI HQ, WHY THE FUCK DID THEY LET HIM LEAVE?

59
Shimshon  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:35:55pm

re: #58 Kragar

Just one question:

If he showed up at the FBI HQ, WHY THE FUCK DID THEY LET HIM LEAVE?

Why cant they just fire him?

60
Skip Intro  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:36:18pm

re: #58 Kragar

It’s become obvious to me that the place that needs to have its water and power turned off is FBI headquarters in Oregon.

Hey, I know it’s cold out there, but for once just do your damn jobs!

61
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:36:58pm

re: #54 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Also, the IAU has failed in one other area.

Pluto and Charon have a unique set of characteristics compared to most planet-moon relationships.

Charon is so large, that, it doesn’t orbit Pluto, but the shared barycentre between the 2, as does pluto.

Technically, both Pluto and Charon orbit the sun and each other. So they both hold the qualities of being a moon and planet at the same time.

Shouldn’t it be the Double Planet system of Pluto-Charon, with 4 moons, with most of those likely being captured objects?

62
goddamnedfrank  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:39:08pm

re: #58 Kragar

Just one question:

If he showed up at the FBI HQ, WHY THE FUCK DID THEY LET HIM LEAVE?

Probably because they consider him one of the saner voices in the group.

I can see that, but the implication is scary.

63
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:42:08pm

re: #61 Ziggy_TARDIS

I’m not really here for your personal beef with the IAU. I only wanted to provide some additional context from folks who have done the math, to show what definitions they were working off of, because that is how science works. You show your assumptions, you provide your definitions, and you ask other scientists to find holes in your work.

Not through Internet thinkpieces arguing for public opinion, like that influences the facts of the matter on hand.

At this point, it is a matter of definitions, and as long as the ones being used are clearly spelled out, I don’t really give a fuck.

64
nines09  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:42:31pm

Speaking of trolls. Gee. Another mouthpiece for ignorance. Cleveland Radio Host Spouts Misogynistic Crap After Bills Hire Female Coach
He’ll keep his job too.

65
ObserverArt  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:44:12pm

re: #62 goddamnedfrank

Probably because they consider him one of the saner voices in the group.

I can see that, but the implication is scary.

The whole standoff has been rather odd. I’m beginning to think something is happening in the background of all of this.

Could this be the Feds having some kind of an information gathering exercise? And all from the inside in some manner. Was the planning of the takeover found out and that whole preserve is info gathering all the time?

After all, there has been quite the collection of whack jobs in and out and maybe that is why they are going in and out so freely.

66
TedStriker  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:45:08pm

re: #4 Kragar

Speaking of trolls…

67
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:45:12pm

re: #63 klys (maker of Silmarils)

It’s not that I have a beef with them.

It’s that their definition has some major problems with it, at least from what I am seeing.

I am not meaning to be mean or prickly, I just want to show some holes in their definition.

68
goddamnedfrank  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:45:52pm

re: #63 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m not really here for your personal beef with the IAU. I only wanted to provide some additional context from folks who have done the math, to show what definitions they were working off of, because that is how science works. You show your assumptions, you provide your definitions, and you ask other scientists to find holes in your work.

Not through Internet thinkpieces arguing for public opinion, like that influences the facts of the matter on hand.

At this point, it is a matter of definitions, and as long as the ones being used are clearly spelled out, I don’t really give a fuck.

My tendency is to defer to the consensus of degree experts actually working in a field when it comes to defining terms.

I’m weird that way, a man’s got to know his limitations.

69
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:46:02pm
70
Eventual Carrion  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:46:09pm

re: #64 nines09

Speaking of trolls. Gee. Another mouthpiece for ignorance. Cleveland Radio Host Spouts Misogynistic Crap After Bills Hire Female Coach
He’ll keep his job too.

The Browns sure as hell haven’t been doing well with the men they have been hiring for their coaches.

71
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:46:29pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

My tendency is to defer to the consensus of degree experts actually working in a field when it comes to defining terms.

I’m weird that way, a man’s got to know his limitations.

GOLD STAR!

72
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:47:15pm

more circus coming:

73
TedStriker  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:47:51pm

re: #36 Eventual Carrion

But you should see my tongue.

OK, Gene Simmons…

///

74
Testy Toad T  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:47:55pm

re: #58 Kragar

Just one question:

If he showed up at the FBI HQ, WHY THE FUCK DID THEY LET HIM LEAVE?

My suspicion is that they are going to want to either collect these bozos when everybody has left the trespassed federal property, or they’ll want to do it all at once. They have no idea what the leadership [sic] structure under Bundy looks like, and taking only the leader into custody is going to have unpredictable results.

75
ipsos  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:48:07pm

re: #72 Backwoods_Sleuth

more circus coming:

[Embedded content]

B…b….but if the county sheriff is the highest valid level of government, then why…???

[head explodes]

76
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:48:43pm

well, then, Ammon, you’re done. Go home.

77
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:48:49pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

There are degree experts who disagree with the IAU however.

78
ausador  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:50:11pm

Hey…

79
Testy Toad T  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:50:23pm

I thought everybody stopped getting their knickers in a tizzy with the IAU back in 2007.

I guess one of the ironclad Laws of the Internet is that you can find somebody with Very Important Feelings about any subject if you keep your eyes open long enough.

80
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:50:55pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

My tendency is to defer to the consensus of degree experts actually working in a field when it comes to defining terms.

I’m weird that way, a man’s got to know his limitations.

To add to this, when my girlfriend with the Ph.D. in astrophysics wants to explain to me why she disagrees with the IAU definition of a planet (or hell, just her opinion on it in general, because I don’t actually know if she disagrees or not), I am all ears, because she has fucking earned that right to my respect of her opinion.

Just like she would listen to me talking about atomic structure of amorphous materials.

Those years mean a lot more than reading a couple of general science pieces on the Internet, no matter how well written.

81
goddamnedfrank  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:50:57pm

re: #72 Backwoods_Sleuth

more circus coming:

[Embedded content]

I wonder if part of the reason the FBI is letting this shit show run on is that it constitutes a ready made honey pot, luring in every right wing seditious asshole in the country. Either way I certainly hope they’re taking the opportunity to put everyone who contacts the Bundy’s offering material support on a watch list. Scratch anyone in their network and you’re liable to find a plethora of NFA weapons violations.

82
goddamnedfrank  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:53:20pm

re: #77 Ziggy_TARDIS

There are degree experts who disagree with the IAU however.

Same with the consensus on global warming. When it comes to naming planets the consequences are comparatively minor, but the principle of picking and choosing which voices one listens to is the same.

This isn’t how I would choose to spend my time.

83
ObserverArt  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:54:10pm

re: #81 goddamnedfrank

I wonder if part of the reason the FBI isn letting this shit show run on is that it constitutes a ready made honey pot, luring in every right wing seditious asshole in the country. Either way I certainly hope they’re taking the opportunity to put everyone who contacts the Bundy’s offering material support on a watch list. Scratch anyone in their network and you’re liable to find a plethora of NFA weapons violations.

Which is the point I was trying to make in #65 to your #62…but that’s all right. I’ll just keep talking to myself. : )

84
nines09  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:54:13pm

re: #70 Eventual Carrion

He’s just showing us all who he truly is. His wife must be so proud. Kiley now dabbles in misogyny That didn’t take long.

85
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:56:06pm

re: #77 Ziggy_TARDIS

There are degree experts who disagree with the IAU however.

Unless you are under the impression that the IAU is not in possession of at least as much information as you are, I don’t understand why you bother. It’s reasonable to assume they know everything you do about the case, and more, and reach a different conclusion.

And this is just about definitions, not the science, so it’s even more unimportant.

86
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:57:41pm

re: #82 goddamnedfrank

Same with the consensus on global warming. When it comes to naming planets the consequences are comparatively minor, but the principle of picking and choosing which voices one listens to is the same.

This isn’t how I would choose to spend my time.

I would argue that there’s a difference in that conclusions about AGW is arguing about the science, whereas this is just arguing about names and definitions, which are human inventions - in particular, IAU inventions, which makes the IAU the arbiter.

87
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 12:58:17pm

So, I did my doctor appointment later this morning (my breathing and lung capacity continue to improve…yay me!). Stopped at Kroger on the way home to pick up a few needed items, but left because the place was insanely crowded with people freaking out over the winter storm that’s coming. Stopped at Lowes and picked up another nine bags of pellets for the stove, just in case MrBWS is really going to be away for ten days (I now have 30 bags, so that should be enough). Then stopped at the local dollar store for cat food, toilet paper, and comfort food for me.
After packing everything indoors, I noticed that the azalea (that spends nice weather in a big pot on the porch, but has been relegated to a dark spot behind the sofa and pretty much ignored since before Christmas) has a nice big bloom on it. It didn’t bloom a single time all summer when it was outdoors.
I’m all set…

88
Testy Toad T  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:00:05pm

re: #85 Blind Frog Belly White

89
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:00:32pm

re: #85 Blind Frog Belly White

And this is just about definitions, not the science, so it’s even more unimportant.

Therefore will be fought over all the more vehemently.

90
Tigger2  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:02:02pm
91
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:03:00pm

Jihotties? Seriously? That’s Billy Bob under the niqab. Or is it Achmed? Hard to tell.

92
EmmaAnne  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:04:15pm

To me it seems quite obvious that ignoring trolls does no good at all. If everyone ignored them it would, but there are always a few people who bite and that is all it takes to keep the bile flowing. Most people ignoring them just makes it look like most people don’t particularly object to what they are doing. Their victims are the ones who feel ignored.

Only good moderation can result in a good conversation in my experience (which is why I am here).

93
ausador  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:04:33pm
94
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:05:29pm

re: #87 Backwoods_Sleuth

When I was on my way in to the shop today, a lizard ran across the sidewalk in front of me. Granted, it was later in the day than usual, but it’s still January at 6,000 feet.

95
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:05:30pm

re: #81 goddamnedfrank

I wonder if part of the reason the FBI is letting this shit show run on is that it constitutes a ready made honey pot, luring in every right wing seditious asshole in the country. Either way I certainly hope they’re taking the opportunity to put everyone who contacts the Bundy’s offering material support on a watch list. Scratch anyone in their network and you’re liable to find a plethora of NFA weapons violations.

I would like to believe that but, after the seemingly free pass everyone got at the Bundy Ranch, I find it very hard to believe. For some reason, it really, truly appears that the Feds are intimidated by these guys. (Not intimidated on a 1:1 basis; we all know that the Feds could roll in there and overtake them any time they wanted.) But intimidated in a larger sense, that they’re working with kid gloves because they’re afraid to kick off a larger conflict.

But the thing is, if they don’t go in and put an end to this nonsense (preferably without violence but put an end to it one way or another), it’s just encouraging them and emboldening them to do it another time, in another place. After Bundy Ranch, and now Oregon, the line has to be drawn. The Feds have to put their foot down and say, unequivocally, “No more! Your acts are criminal and they have serious consequences and you WILL suffer those consequences now.”

96
Great White Snark  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:07:05pm

Sad state of the election… Astonishing if a bit unsurprising chart.

Liar For President

97
goddamnedfrank  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:08:54pm

Posted without comment.

It is estimated that there may be 200 dwarf planets in the Kuiper belt of the outer Solar System and up to 10,000 in the region beyond.

98
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:10:17pm

re: #94 wrenchwench

When I was on my way in to the shop today, a lizard ran across the sidewalk in front of me. Granted, it was later in the day than usual, but it’s still January at 6,000 feet.

Last week, I rescued a little lizard that was slowly walking ON TOP OF THE SNOW!
Poor thing was totally confused.

99
Billy Batts  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:10:44pm

re: #5 lawhawk

100
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:11:12pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

Last week, I rescued a little lizard that was slowly walking ON TOP OF THE SNOW!
Poor thing was totally confused.

It’s true. When Lizards pine for snow we get very, very confused.

/pointedly ignores the east coast

101
Trump: Free hair gel from me. Come to the beach!  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:11:24pm
102
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:11:45pm
103
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:12:10pm

re: #95 Whack-A-Mole

I would like to believe that but, after the seemingly free pass everyone got at the Bundy Ranch, I find it very hard to believe. For some reason, it really, truly appears that the Feds are intimidated by these guys. (Not intimidated on a 1:1 basis; we all know that the Feds could roll in there and overtake them any time they wanted.) But intimidated in a larger sense, that they’re working with kid gloves because they’re afraid to kick off a larger conflict.

But the thing is, if they don’t go in and put an end to this nonsense (preferably without violence but put an end to it one way or another), it’s just encouraging them and emboldening them to do it another time, in another place. After Bundy Ranch, and now Oregon, the line has to be drawn. The Feds have to put their foot down and say, unequivocally, “No more! Your acts are criminal and they have serious consequences and you WILL suffer those consequences now.”

The feds are content to collect from these guys’ estates some time down the road.

104
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:13:43pm
105
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:14:36pm
106
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:16:00pm

re: #42 Ziggy_TARDIS

OT, but I looked up the hypothetical parameters for hypothetical Planet 9.

It would only be about 10 Times Earth mass, or about 68% the size of Uranus, and only 2-4 times bigger than Earth in Diameter.

There is no way that Planet 9 Would clear its orbit.

Either call it Dwarf Planet 6 under the IAU, or Planet 15 if we go back to the “Spherical & Orbiting the sun definition. Because the IAU’s definition is bollocks.

Since when would it not be able to clear its’ orbit??? The models showed it was doing exactly that and diverting Kuiper Belt objects into other orbits (sometimes at a right angle to the ecliptic plane)

107
Barefoot Grin  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:18:38pm

re: #90 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

Kind of reminds me of this old classic Onion:

theonion.com

108
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:18:47pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

That’s all well but in that case it was not a violent crime (to my knowledge). There were no threats of violence, either implicit or explicit, no armed occupation, no acts of armed rebellion against the government and social order.

That is not the case here, or at Bundy Ranch once it escalated. Armed felonies occurred. Armed criminals walked away scot free. A delayed collection of fines isn’t going to cut it. Criminal prosecutions need to be conducted, and not years down the road when the statute of limitations is hobbling the case against them.

109
lawhawk  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:21:48pm

Ted Cruz doesn’t have health insurance and wants to blame Obamacare for the situation. He wants to blame Obamacare for his losing health insurance. Oh, the BS.

The reality is that he has only himself to blame for the situation. It’s his own stupidity. He refuses to participate in getting a plan through the Marketplace.

His wife no longer gets insurance through Goldman Sachs, so he’s without insurance.

His wife is pissed.

His wife is right to be pissed.

He thinks that he’s taking a principled stand in not getting insurance through the marketplace.

110
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:23:58pm

re: #108 Whack-A-Mole

That’s all well but in that case it was not a violent crime (to my knowledge). There were no threats of violence, either implicit or explicit, no armed occupation, no acts of armed rebellion against the government and social order.

That is not the case here, or at Bundy Ranch once it escalated. Armed felonies occurred. Armed criminals walked away scot free. A delayed collection of fines isn’t going to cut it. Criminal prosecutions need to be conducted, and not years down the road when the statute of limitations is hobbling the case against them.

But there was a dirty judge who was further exposed.

And armed people equal threats, but they don’t equal dead people. The feds have been there and do not wish to return.

111
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:31:50pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

I don’t want dead people either. I’m certainly not advocating rolling into the refuge in a tank and putting all of these guys down. Not at all. That would be horrible and make martyrs out of them.

I’m merely saying that IMO, real pressure needs to be applied here to end this. Not what they’re doing now: haphazardly arresting some of these guys some of the times they leave, allowing in food, packages, press conferences, etc.

Box them in. Shut down their lines of self-aggrandizing propaganda. Shut down their supply lines, their power lines. Let their food and water run out and force these guys to decide just how committed to this cause they are.

112
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:32:42pm

And when it’s over, prosecute. To the fullest extent of the law. No sweetheart pleas to make the thing go away. Max jail time for all of them.

113
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:42:25pm

re: #111 Whack-A-Mole

I don’t want dead people either. I’m certainly not advocating rolling into the refuge in a tank and putting all of these guys down. Not at all. That would be horrible and make martyrs out of them.

I’m merely saying that IMO, real pressure needs to be applied here to end this. Not what they’re doing now: haphazardly arresting some of these guys some of the times they leave, allowing in food, packages, press conferences, etc.

Box them in. Shut down their lines of self-aggrandizing propaganda. Shut down their supply lines, their power lines. Let their food and water run out and force these guys to decide just how committed to this cause they are.

re: #112 Whack-A-Mole

And when it’s over, prosecute. To the fullest extent of the law. No sweetheart pleas to make the thing go away. Max jail time for all of them.

I have a lot of sympathy for those positions. But I am willing to allow more time, with some faith that the feds have decided to wait, not been chickened into it.

114
WhatEVs  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:44:43pm

re: #109 lawhawk

Ted Cruz doesn’t have health insurance and wants to blame Obamacare for the situation. He wants to blame Obamacare for his losing health insurance. Oh, the BS.

The reality is that he has only himself to blame for the situation. It’s his own stupidity. He refuses to participate in getting a plan through the Marketplace.

His wife no longer gets insurance through Goldman Sachs, so he’s without insurance.

His wife is pissed.

His wife is right to be pissed.

He thinks that he’s taking a principled stand in not getting insurance through the marketplace.

And then there is this, from the comments:

Ted Cruz is an incorrigible liar. Not only has he lied about his loans, he is lying about his insurance too. It is publicly known that he enrolled his family in Obamacare. He knew it was going to be a problem for him in the presidential campaign because while he was encouraging republicans not to sign up, he was enrolling his family. This is a well-planned out slight of hand for the consumption of unthinking republicans. He is seeking their sympathy. Poor Ted, that Obamacare bogeyman is harming him. Of course, he will get the stupid republican vote because of it.

Here is Ted Cruz himself telling CNN his family was enrolling in Obamacare and receive subsidies.

Sen. Ted Cruz says he will sign up for Obamacare
cnn.com

115
EPR-radar  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:56:17pm

re: #113 wrenchwench

I have a lot of sympathy for those positions. But I am willing to allow more time, with some faith that the feds have decided to wait, not been chickened into it.

I’d be completely on board with the Feds moving this slow, if we didn’t have the recent example of Bundy Ranch where no action at all took place.

Even if action is eventually taken with respect to Bundy Ranch, it has been delayed so long that the link between actions and consequences will be somewhere between feeble and non-existent.

116
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 21, 2016 • 1:59:55pm

re: #113 wrenchwench

And, as I said before, I wish I shared that faith. But with almost 2 years having passed since Bundy Ranch and absolutely no negative consequences having been applied to any of those participants, that faith seems to contrary to all available evidence.

Look, I take these guys very seriously. Contrary to ISIS and groups like that who lack the ability to hurt us in any substantive way, I think these guys are an existential threat to the United States as we know them.

With the electorate so polarized that a large percentage of people can believe that our duly elected POTUS is illegitimate and almost everything he does is a capital crime, it is hardly a stretch to think that these guys have a credible chance at developing a real base of followers and recruits. They could easily draw enough people in to pose a significant threat to the current social order on a scale larger than the one county they’re disrupting now.

These guys are whackos but, at the right (or wrong) moment in history, even whackos can change the world.

117
wrenchwench  Jan 21, 2016 • 2:15:23pm

re: #116 Whack-A-Mole

And, as I said before, I wish I shared that faith. But with almost 2 years having passed since Bundy Ranch and absolutely no negative consequences having been applied to any of those participants, that faith seems to contrary to all available evidence.

Two years is nothing.

Look, I take these guys very seriously. Contrary to ISIS and groups like that who lack the ability to hurt us in any substantive way, I think these guys are an existential threat to the United States as we know them.

Existential threat? No. Environmental threat? Yes.

With the electorate so polarized that a large percentage of people can believe that our duly elected POTUS is illegitimate and almost everything he does is a capital crime, it is hardly a stretch to think that these guys have a credible chance at developing a real base of followers and recruits. They could easily draw enough people in to pose a significant threat to the current social order on a scale larger than the one county they’re disrupting now.

Their best chance at followers and recruits is their children. They’re losing them. The kids are moving to the cities.

These guys are whackos but, at the right (or wrong) moment in history, even whackos can change the world.

We are not at that moment. If I’m wrong, I’ll eat this laptop. If I still have it.


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