Video: Donald Trump Says He Could Murder Somebody and Not Lose Voters, and the Crowd Laughs

Oh how they laughed
Politics • Views: 42,598

YouTube

I know, Donald Trump again. I hate to give him any more publicity, but this is a pretty amazing snapshot of the Republican voting base at this point in time.

In this clip from one of his Iowa rallies, Trump says, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK? It’s like incredible.”

It is incredible, because he’s actually telling this crowd to their faces that they’re idiots who’ll vote for him even if he publicly murders someone… and they laugh and cheer for it.

It’s like incredible.

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497 comments
1
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:41:59pm

Next step, Trump will actually kill someone, or cheer on as his supporters stomp somebody to death.

2
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:43:47pm

I’m honestly beginning to wonder if there’s something to the theory that the man is just running a campaign for the publicity and does not seriously want to be president. Because it seems like he keeps taking moves aimed at causing his campaign to self-destruct.

3
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:43:52pm
4
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:46:30pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

Performance art?

Plus, I gather from all he has said, the he really, really doesn’t like the Bush family. Could be he decided to run just to make sure to derail Jeb!… then was caught surprised at how quickly he reached the top of the polls.

Truly, what does the dog do once it catches the car?

5
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:48:20pm

I really think we are watching a real life “Producers” here.

Who could have thought 2016 America would come to this?

6
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:49:29pm

The Reuters rolling poll shows Trump increasing his lead over a head-to-head with Rubio:

polling.reuters.com

7
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:51:13pm

my apologies for being a pain in the ass about this, but i think this asshole has a serious chance of being the next president

8
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:51:13pm

re: #6 freetoken

The Reuters rolling poll shows Trump increasing his lead over a head-to-head with Rubio:

polling.reuters.com

Which serves to prove my previous point even more.

9
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:51:14pm

Trump is also surging against Hillary:

polling.reuters.com

He still trails Hillary by a couple of points, but I notice the error bars are now half overlapping.

10
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:51:52pm

I want to laugh…but something about this really fucking scares me.

11
lawhawk  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:53:34pm

He’s right you know. He could shoot someone and his supporters wouldn’t blink an eye.

Alternatively, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and know that they wouldn’t be a Trump voter.

Either way, his supporters will treat Trump as invincible and invulnerable to all questions/claims. No matter how bugnuts he is. No matter how much crazy he packs into 140 characters.

12
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:54:50pm

Hell if he killed people on 5th Ave his supporters would cheer him for getting rid of “Filthy liberals”.

13
Shimshon  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:55:00pm

Well played Trumpf. The audience projects their wishes of shooting liberals (Like the popular “liberal hunting license” of years past) and sees this as their authoritarian being one of them.

14
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:55:51pm

Interesting about that Reuters poll, is that if you filter by age group, only among the young are Hillary leading.

Which leads me to wonder if for some reason turn out isn’t so large this time, because young people don’t vote, if indeed Trump can win it all.

15
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:56:23pm

re: #1 The Vicious Babushka

And if he does, he’d probably get away with it.

16
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:57:22pm

re: #4 freetoken

Performance art?

Plus, I gather from all he has said, the he really, really doesn’t like the Bush family. Could be he decided to run just to make sure to derail Jeb!… then was caught surprised at how quickly he reached the top of the polls.

Truly, what does the dog do once it catches the car?

He burns that clown nose on the tailpipe.

(I think this is an old Brother Dave Gardner routine. Anyone remember him? My one brother had his records.)

18
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:59:37pm

re: #14 freetoken

Interesting about that Reuters poll, is that if you filter by age group, only among the young are Hillary leading.

Which leads me to wonder if for some reason turn out isn’t so large this time, because young people don’t vote, if indeed Trump can win it all.

Weren’t we just concerned about young people NOT turning out and that would sink Hillary?

There are times we may want to stop scouring every bit of data because something will support or disprove something concerning to us. Now might be one of those times.

19
TedStriker  Jan 23, 2016 • 6:59:46pm

This already takes him into Lonesome Rhodes territory…and he’s not suffered a damn bit in the polls. It scares the living shit out of me, because instead of Trump’s shit making him weaker, it’s making him even stronger.

Clinton (and Sanders, to an extent) are political pros and know how the game is played, but how do you win against someone like Trump when the public increasingly seems to be throwing themselves willingly (and the rest of us with them) towards the abyss?

20
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:00:08pm
It’s like incredible.
Been there, done that!
21
Amory Blaine  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:00:44pm
Idiocracy. Prophetic.
22
nines09  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:00:56pm

re: #4 freetoken

Performance art?

Plus, I gather from all he has said, the he really, really doesn’t like the Bush family. Could be he decided to run just to make sure to derail Jeb!… then was caught surprised at how quickly he reached the top of the polls.

Truly, what does the dog do once it catches the car?

He’s already caught the “car”. Now he’s in the process of dragging the driver out and riding away with that sleek hate machine the GOP has spent so much time and money on.

23
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:02:11pm

re: #18 WhatEVs

Weren’t we just concerned about young people NOT turning out and that would sink Hillary?

There are times we may want to stop scouring every bit of data because something will support or disprove something concerning to us. Now might be one of those times.

In the RCP aggregate (which is still mush at this stage) Trump does worse against HRC than any of the other possible Repubs.

24
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:02:21pm

The Bundy gang is pretending to have its own legal system. And threatening to harm reporters.

25
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:03:28pm

re: #18 WhatEVs

Weren’t we just concerned about young people NOT turning out and that would sink Hillary?

There are times we may want to stop scouring every bit of data because something will support or disprove something concerning to us. Now might be one of those times.

Maybe. But as the topic of this thread is Trump, might as well try to pick him apart.

His appeal is not so much strange as uncomfortable. We wished a candidate like him wouldn’t do well, but according to the popularity polls he is.

And, btw, I don’t think Hillary is a sure bet. I only used that comparison because that is the Reuters poll that is available.

26
Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:05:33pm

Night Lizards.

27
TedStriker  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:06:27pm

re: #21 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Hey, Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho has more integrity than Trump or the rest of the GOP field.

28
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:06:36pm
29
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:07:06pm

re: #21 Amory Blaine

No, because Camacho actually said everyone needed to listen to the smartest guy they could find.

30
Tigger2  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:08:09pm
31
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:09:24pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

In the RCP aggregate (which is still mush at this stage) Trump does worse against HRC than any of the other possible Repubs.

My point precisely. One poll and THE SKY IS FALLING. I think we all need to chillax a little.

32
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:10:01pm

re: #21 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

33
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:11:02pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

It’s a DOCUMENTARY not a comedy.
//

34
dholmes32  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:13:08pm

re: #21 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

You know, though, the people in Idiocracy knew they were stupid, that’s why they took Not Sure to the White House, because he was the smartest person.

Besides, I’m sure every president has wanted to shoot a high powered rifle into the ceiling of a rowdy House chamber, right? //////////////

35
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:13:16pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

In the RCP aggregate (which is still mush at this stage) Trump does worse against HRC than any of the other possible Repubs.

Well, if you insist on being a glass-half-full type…

realclearpolitics.com

It is true, that in the heads up composite, that Hillary’s numbers are a tiny bit ahead of Trump, but the difference is less than that elusive “margin of error” of the polls.

And what does it say, when the other Republicans do better than Trump? That they would actually beat Hillary?

36
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:14:23pm

re: #25 freetoken

Maybe. But as the topic of this thread is Trump, might as well try to pick him apart.

His appeal is not so much strange as uncomfortable. We wished a candidate like him wouldn’t do well, but according to the popularity polls he is.

And, btw, I don’t think Hillary is a sure bet. I only used that comparison because that is the Reuters poll that is available.

Well, if you think about it, the collective ‘we’ here at LGF talk a lot about the craziness of the right wing nut jobs.

I take that was what the big change in thinking our good host Charles had here back in ‘08 or so. So we may have not wished that this would happen but at the same time we should not be surprised. It all had to come to a head at some point. Here we are.

I’m going to go with something I learned a long time ago…mostly instilled by the good nuns that educated me.

Good wins out.

I’m still thinking that will be the ultimate outcome. Trump and Cruz and others do not represent the good in this country as much as they want to paint it. And good doesn’t mean morals…just good politically. Practical and efficient. It is what has made Obama effective for the times.

And as far as polls. This is America. There will be so many freakouts driven by our fine media about polls and who is who and what is what that to freak out now is too early for me.

I’m waiting a bit more toward June.

37
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:15:03pm

re: #25 freetoken

Maybe. But as the topic of this thread is Trump, might as well try to pick him apart.

His appeal is not so much strange as uncomfortable. We wished a candidate like him wouldn’t do well, but according to the popularity polls he is.

And, btw, I don’t think Hillary is a sure bet. I only used that comparison because that is the Reuters poll that is available.

Nothing’s a sure bet. Absolutely. But stressing daily over whatever off the wall shit pours out of Trump’s psyche, or that Hillary/Bernie can’t win, etc. it’s just not healthy. And it’s WAY too soon to stress like that.

I hate this forever election cycle, day after day, year after year, from when a POTUS is sworn in - to every day thereafter. It wears people down.

38
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:15:24pm

re: #33 The Vicious Babushka

It’s a DOCUMENTARY not a comedy.
//

I guess me and Dan Duryea are just going to have to disagree about that.

;-)

39
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:15:47pm

re: #30 Tigger2

What’s a Poe?

40
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:16:23pm
41
nines09  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:16:37pm

Trump could also ruin your life, fuck your mother and father along with your wife, throw your children through a plate glass window, set your pets on fire along with your house, and go have pizza and beer and laugh about it.

42
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:16:43pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

If you’re just saying that now, I beat you by about four years. It was awful. :-)

43
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:17:19pm

re: #39 WhatEVs

See here.

44
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:17:58pm

re: #39 WhatEVs

What’s a Poe?


Poe’s law

Poe’s law is an Internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author’s intent, parodies of extreme views will be mistaken by some readers or viewers for sincere expressions of the parodied views.

45
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:19:09pm

re: #35 freetoken

Well, if you insist on being a glass-half-full type…

realclearpolitics.com

It is true, that in the heads up composite, that Hillary’s numbers are a tiny bit ahead of Trump, but the difference is less than that elusive “margin of error” of the polls.

And what does it say, when the other Republicans do better than Trump? That they would actually beat Hillary?

In RCP-land, which is notably RW until very late in the season. They are just starting to refresh frequently and pick up more LV polls (which have their own problems).

46
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:20:05pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

I’m waiting a bit more toward June.

This!

47
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:21:52pm

A po’ poe!

(Looks out for the black’n’whites and their spotlights as I sneak off into the…night all)

48
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:22:20pm

re: #43 Eric The Fruit Bat

See here.

re: #44 Kragar

Thanks. That tweet made no sense (still doesn’t…weird wording). But I get it now.

49
EmmaAnne  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:22:43pm

re: #18 WhatEVs

Weren’t we just concerned about young people NOT turning out and that would sink Hillary?

There are times we may want to stop scouring every bit of data because something will support or disprove something concerning to us. Now might be one of those times.

I think it is one of those times. Head to head matchup polls are essentially useless this far out. Primaries are extremely hard to poll accurately and caucuses are even worse. We look at polls because they are all we have and we’re worried, but they can’t tell us much.

50
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:24:20pm

re: #24 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The Bundy gang is pretending to have its own legal system. And threatening to harm reporters.

51
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:24:52pm

The bottom line:

That’s great, but it doesn’t tell me why these particular Iowa caucuses matter. Fine, here’s the short version. Unless the polls are wildly, historically, cats-and-dogs-living-together wrong, these caucuses will end the 2016 campaigns of the past two Republican caucus winners, Santorum and Huckabee. If Trump wins them, he will have dramatically changed the math of Iowa politics, despite a ground game that has already been exposed as rickety. If Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.) wins them, Iowa Republicans will have gone on record supporting the candidate who pledged to end the ethanol mandate, a key issue in a corn-growing state. If Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) wins them, he could — as Kerry once did with the Democrats — quickly establish himself as the GOP establishment’s choice.

And if Bernie Sanders wins them, along with the following primary in New Hampshire, he will tee up a Democratic Party contest with Hillary Clinton that seemed unthinkable just two months ago.

That is what Iowa can do, assuming a few hundred thousand people want to sit in some gyms.

52
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:27:07pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

Reload. I just assumed @DOJ was department of justice, it’s not, which is dumb.

53
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:28:07pm

re: #45 Decatur Deb

In RCP-land, which is notably RW until very late in the season. They are just starting to refresh frequently and pick up more LV polls (which have their own problems).

I read a RCP poll collection the other day. RCP “leans” (pretty heavily) right, and if you removed the two Fox polls (which don’t lean, they fall over) and they all (but Fox) had Hillary well over Trump and all the others. (They didn’t have a Bernie/GOP set.)

I paid as much attention to it as I would anything else. Ok. Next.

There are going to be polls daily. If I freak at one or two every day or every week, I’m not going to make it to Election Day; I’ll stroke out.

54
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:29:43pm
55
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:30:07pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

Ya needed to use @TheJusticeDept

56
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:30:42pm

re: #55 Eric The Fruit Bat

(c for d)

57
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:31:10pm
58
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:34:59pm

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

59
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:36:28pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Sorry man

60
Jenner7  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:36:37pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

LH3Bkrx5+dKuvYrf24hV+cvT/O01Xv7dHriXP0rKZ2/KGSS1FxaNC7m/UtauWc8/8a4Y79GR3pv6x1lmtXCXsw==

61
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:37:04pm

I have to say that I’m torn by news people giving the Bundy nuts any press time. They crave it and I don’t think we should give it to them.

I love the coverage OPR is doing. The stories are great. But overall, I don’t know what to think; how to balance my curiosity vs giving them a complete black out.

62
Shimshon  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:38:22pm

re: #19 TedStriker

This already takes him into Lonesome Rhodes territory…and he’s not suffered a damn bit in the polls. It scares the living shit out of me, because instead of Trump’s shit making him weaker, it’s making him even stronger.

Clinton (and Sanders, to an extent) are political pros and know how the game is played, but how do you win against someone like Trump when the public increasingly seems to be throwing themselves willingly (and the rest of us with them) towards the abyss?

Shirley you can’t be serious

…

Trump is hated by too many groups and has no chance in the general election. He can stir up the fringe right wing all he wants, he will never come close to defeating Hillary or even Bernie.

63
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:38:55pm

re: #61 WhatEVs

I have to say that I’m torn by news people giving the Bundy nuts any press time. They crave it and I don’t think we should give it to them.

I love the coverage OPR is doing. The stories are great. But overall, I don’t know what to think; how to balance my curiosity vs giving them a complete black out.

The Bundy Boys are not doing themselves and their cause any favors. Let the freak flags fly.

64
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:38:56pm
65
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:39:20pm

re: #41 nines09

Trump could also ruin your life, fuck your mother and father along with your wife, throw your children through a plate glass window, set your pets on fire along with your house, and go have pizza and beer and laugh about it.

Now see… If he did this as Ambassador to Russia, I’d be OK. I think he’d be OK in a cabinet position where he can piss off the right people. But CINC? Heeeellll no.

66
WhatEVs  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:39:29pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

geDUSLt3CXDcwZFYDGCLGnYjaBuec3vGQYDWsf4S2zHpo/HaAISqpRemOfDr8NeQhDA28bnsN4H9azDy3QVLswjEty0O/9zD1WTyvCruMVA=

67
Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:39:37pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

pvAj0gKaJ8GKnBwZPY5prBLnQFm9EVTdK6Rm5pWolaMLRJuxWlS61U5thg5BETTj

68
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:47:06pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Very sad. My condolences. Take care.

69
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:48:53pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

YdzhLLBjah6e0TgdIu3x5UeBUs2QBhGeiyYLCPef76o=

70
dholmes32  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:49:07pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

My condolences.

71
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:49:17pm
72
Mattand  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:50:27pm

re: #7 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

my apologies for being a pain in the ass about this, but i think this asshole has a serious chance of being the next president

I agree. I’m going to be an equal pain in the ass, and repeat my assertion that Americans are stupid enough to vote this psycho into office.

73
Snarknado!  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:50:47pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

{{gdfrank}}

74
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:51:29pm
75
dholmes32  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:51:40pm

On a completely different note, here’s an article from Nature about the feral chickens of Kauai. You can learn a lot from a feral chicken. (Seriously, it was worth reading.)

nature.com

76
Mattand  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:52:11pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

So sorry to hear that. Condolences.

77
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:52:30pm

Ninja takedown…

78
De Kolta Chair  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:53:06pm

‘Nighty night, lizarati

The Spirit, 1940
79
Snarknado!  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:53:48pm

re: #77 ausador

A severe case of paw chill.

80
Barefoot Grin  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:54:09pm

re: #41 nines09

Trump could also ruin your life, fuck your mother and father along with your wife, throw your children through a plate glass window, set your pets on fire along with your house, and go have pizza and beer and laugh about it.

The Aristocrats!

81
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:54:09pm

re: #24 jaunte

The Bundy gang is pretending to have its own legal system. And threatening to harm reporters.

Part of the reason that I’m still nervous, even though they’re sad sacks and bozos, is that their core understanding of “law” is that they get to punish the non-compliant. I mean, they divide the world into dupes, government villains, and themselves…and if you’re a dupe, you have a limited window before you’re a villain. And that’s how these court things roll: slightly formalized retaliation.

It seems stupid/funny because they haven’t been pumped up enough to actually try to enforce their law…but they’re totally serious about their handed-down sentences. It’s a preview of how they’d deal with people if there was a vacuum in authority.

But all it takes is one waterhead to get too deep into the LARP and this gets messy. And pretty much all sovereign citizen violence—including the post-Bundy Vegas shootings—involve a dipshit who follows through with the basic premises of the movement.

Which is, by the way, the reason I keep bringing up that event. The Vegas killers were not somehow deviating from the basic assumptions of the movement. They killed cops because they viewed cops as the agents of a malefic, totalitarian force. The Ammon Bundys are like the organ grinders that wind up clinic shooters: willing to declare an enormous existential threat, yet behaving in a manner that demonstrates that they do not fully believe that they are at risk.

This high-dudgeon Grand Inquisitor stuff applies to Burns, so while they’re playing diplomatic at meetings, their “law” incorporates the idea that the non-compliant townsfolk are guilty of magic space treason. The harassment and threats described by the Paiute and the Burns citizenry is the other half of this “you’re with us, or else” nuttery. But it gets worse, since they’ve brought non-combatants: if they get into a fight over which Harry Potter novel is the stronger legal precedent—since these guys are a loose assembly of affiliated nutters with little group discipline—the human shields aren’t human shields but hostages.

I’m not saying this to be doom and gloom or paint a unsolve-able situation, but I do think it’s a bad idea to rely on their incompetence or incapacity. Idiots committed to a cause periodically manage to fuck the world by briefly and serendipitously attaining a finding-their-asscheeks-with-both-hands level of basic competence.. Those numpties that shot the Archduke, for example. Because sometimes asscheeks are attached to dominoes that start to fall…or something.

Okay, I’m being silly because that’s my tic when dealing with this kind of stuff. But somewhere in there is a serious point.

In a way, I’m glad the Bundys are getting to stand in front of cameras and express themselves at length…because their ideas are more appealing if you don’t hear the back half about judges from the moon, constitution ouija, and what amounts to county-level death squads. All the moreso, since the “they took jerbz land!” thing is an issue being monitored by actually-competent, totally shitheel people with money and influence waiting to pounce.

82
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:55:52pm

re: #80 Barefoot Grin

The Aristocrats!

Oh god. Now I’m imagining Gilbert Godfried’s telling, with “So DONALD TRUMP comes on the stage, and…”

83
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:56:42pm

Yup, just another racist on twitter:

84
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:58:19pm

So now Utah ranchers have joined in, Montana next it sounds like. :(

85
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 7:59:10pm

re: #83 freetoken

Yup, just another racist on twitter:

[Embedded content]

I think I know which of the lower two I’d rather have with me if I were
dropped in the outback somewhere…

86
unproven innocence  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:01:07pm

A Face in the Crowd (1957) - “Dark Night of the Soul” scene
About 1 minute in, “I could murder them. Like guests.”

Of course, when Hair Trump says something comparable, he doesn’t really mean it, so he has plausable deniability. He’s just making suggestions to his loyal followers. Because he’s a smart leader.

87
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:02:30pm

re: #84 ausador

So now Utah ranchers have joined in, Montana next it sounds like. :(

The Founding Fathers would have called up the troops and hung all these seditious bastards

88
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:05:11pm

re: #83 freetoken

He doesn’t really want to start playing that game.

89
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:06:45pm

re: #84 ausador

So now Utah ranchers have joined in, Montana next it sounds like. :(

So, RICO it is.

90
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:06:48pm

re: #87 Kragar

The Founding Fathers would have called up the troops and hung all these seditious bastards

Two men were convicted of treason for their part in the Whiskey Rebellion. Both were pardoned, one because he was a known idiot.

en.wikipedia.org

91
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:07:21pm

re: #88 jaunte

92
Mattand  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:07:57pm

Semi-off topic: looks like the dog nipping at Trump’s heels just got snagged in a major-ass lie.

Cruz Camp Admits Ted’s Story About Losing Health Insurance Was False

Not that it’ll make difference to his supporters.

Jesus God, the Republican Party is such a psycho shit show anymore. I just don’t understand how an adult who is rational in every other aspect of their lives can support these freaks.

93
Jenner7  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:08:17pm
94
Mattand  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:08:48pm

re: #84 ausador

So now Utah ranchers have joined in, Montana next it sounds like. :(

Do you mean ranchers from UT and MT, or separate incidents in those states?

95
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:09:35pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

Idiocracy was a hare-brained idea by Mike Judge that hastily came to fruition with some 20th Century Fox money. The executives saw it and made sure to bury it upon theatrical release, having only been played in 130 theaters nationwide for a week or two. It found new life on DVD with the college crowd and the stoners and is what I consider a cult classic.

Sure, it’s pretty bad. The badness of it is part of its charm. And, being a stoner, I thought the film hysterical. I can quote many many lines verbatim.

And Dwayne Alizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho is probably not racist like Donald Trump, which makes him the better president by default.

96
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:10:07pm

re: #93 Jenner7

I see some Kirkland vodka on the right…

97
Belafon  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:11:40pm

re: #91 Kragar

I wonder if the bird on the right in the picture looks at the bird on the left and says n****r?

98
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:12:23pm
99
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:13:17pm

re: #92 Mattand

Semi-off topic: looks like the dog nipping at Trump’s heels just got snagged in a major-ass lie.

Cruz Camp Admits Ted’s Story About Losing Health Insurance Was False

Not that it’ll make difference to his supporters.

Jesus God, the Republican Party is such a psycho shit show anymore. I just don’t understand how an adult who is rational in every other aspect of their lives can support these freaks.

It represents a greater truth…

100
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:14:25pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

++ObihPxh+NjVvXMZcK0Jh9mMo+/V1ByOKg84ijVT0nGWuPkNKXgUxHsNP2B47bVM9MfWLugrP1gy5Dc+U3FjqQr0fO3r9gS54hYZFBQj75BT6PDOWfYjn87kZG1XaxkcGfg6sjTb/vSwt0qn4HEtGCqLCQNtfnwQtjUL+E8C3WjsVc9c7fFg80WqnNcoYskF+mkqpjmatrxf6+8VoE4BiotRs8avB9VkYsO8D6h2tKHZO2jG+t0rhGX2fuohwoSSVfhZtFZGH06Fqrpo0W6na/GTT+ZGMaOhBP0FYQyImy6myf5yilJkd+SPhv6z9qBFED/VxY1bEgOfHoaeTy3uXGx2L4GUJZPjG4JcCvDfwGPYaKh2fzv7tFhLLmNRWYY

101
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:15:39pm

re: #98 ausador

[Embedded content]

“Caring American Jon Pratt”? Is that his official title?

102
Joe Bacon  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:15:45pm

re: #99 calochortus

It doesn’t matter because the brainwashed Religious Rught nuts backing Cruz will forgive him because he’s a Christian.

103
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:19:09pm

The drawback of dropping $ on new book is I can burn thru 500 pages in a few hours and now its done.

le sigh

104
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:19:43pm
105
Barefoot Grin  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:21:40pm

re: #103 Kragar

The drawback of dropping $ on new book is I can burn thru 500 pages in a few hours and now its done.

le sigh

But you can read it again, give it to a friend, donate it to a prison reading program….

106
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:21:42pm

re: #104 jaunte

Who knew that many Utah ranchers were ready to retire?

107
retired cynic  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:22:12pm

I would be interested in an educated legal opinion as to how this compares with the contracts they have with BLM. I’m not sure but what I should be glad these idiots are gone.

108
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:22:18pm

re: #104 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Keep an eye on those ranchers and as soon as their herds step on Federal land, you come down on them fast and hard.

109
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:23:30pm

So yeah they had this planned out in advance to happen today so it would coincide with the (failure) action at refuge.

110
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:23:33pm

re: #106 calochortus

Who knew that many Utah ranchers were ready to retire?

To spend their golden years listening to lawyers settle a contract dispute.

111
retired cynic  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:24:53pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

What do we have to do with the cattle. Round them up with shotguns aimed at federal agents?

112
Schroedinger's Dog  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:25:49pm

Sorry for your loss frank

113
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:26:06pm
Adrian, a baby-faced 36-year-old rancher and father of three, runs 100 head of cattle on 34,000 acres of National Forest Service land in Southwest New Mexico, but “they won’t permit me any more.”
rawstory.com

If he can’t raise his cattle on his own land, I don’t see why he gets to let them mess up 34,000 acres of public land and ask for more. He can buy land in Texas that actually has grass on it.

114
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:26:11pm

re: #111 retired cynic

What do we have to do with the cattle. Round them up with shotguns aimed at federal agents?

I would expect the BLM to have worked out a plan by now. They were caught short the first time.

115
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:26:43pm

re: #108 Kragar

Makes sense: they’re all coalesced in OR, so when they move in UT, what are they going to do?

116
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:30:15pm

Guys are going town to town holding meetings, Ceder City last, lots and lots of info at @chris_zinda too much to post here for me right now.

117
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:32:52pm

When rancher Cliven Bundy engaged in a standoff with the BLM, a Montana man initiated a call to action to militia across the country. He considers it just the first battle in a war to reclaim America.

So this is an long interview with one of the dudes that was at Bundy Ranch and is at Malheur. It’s a long article, but worthy reading if you’re trying to understand the mindset. Much of this is his own words, not the paper researching sovereign citizen stuff:

More specifically, he came to believe that slavery never really existed in the United States and that African Americans in the antebellum South “didn’t view themselves as slaves.” He came to believe in “an effort by some Jews to control the world.” He came to believe the founders of the United States intended for the states to act as sovereign countries. He came to believe taxes are a form of “legal plunder.” He came to believe names are spelled in all-caps on driver’s licenses because U.S. citizens are actually “corporate entities.” He came to believe U.S. courts are actually foreign admiralty courts. He came to believe that “in most states you have the lawful authority to kill a police officer that is unlawfully trying to arrest you.” He came to believe when a newborn child’s footprint is made on a birth certificate, that child is effectively entering a life of servitude to the U.S. government, which borrows money from China based on that child’s estimated lifetime earning potential.

He came to see all aspects of government, culture and society as mechanisms of control. “And they’ve set everything up so they can maintain that control,” Payne says, “because they believe they are God.”

As Payne became convinced that conspiracies exist to control the world’s people, he also moved from agnosticism to a deep belief in a Creator. “I’m a Jew,” Payne says. “A Messianic Jew. A Kabbalist, even.” These mystical and often controversial traditions of Judaism accommodated his faith as well as his suspicions of religion, which he considers “clothing for the truth.”

ETA: I have added bold to some stuff because of an early conservation on the board about shofar, and the bit about cops…but that is otherwise an unedited bloc of article. I have not clipped anything, so I’m not in any way editing what was said.

I will put money on the barrelhead…find the public statements of each person at Malheur and they’ll all be this messy and narcissistic. It’s like Harry Potter for dim angry men: you wake up from your shitty normal life and a fat dude in a cowboy hat is like “You’re True Patriot, HARRY OF POTTER.”

118
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:35:05pm

Oh my god…Tina Fey is killing it in the SNL opening. It’s scary good.

Had to log in. Look for clips…

119
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:36:33pm

It appears as if I am in a minority here, but I think the Obama administration shouldn’t try to imitate the Buchanan administration.

120
BillinGlendaleCA  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:37:19pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

My condolences, same thing almost happened to me 5 years ago.

121
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:37:52pm

re: #117 The Ghost of a Flea

About 1 and a half of the three major threeper cults consider Ryan Payne to be a federal provocateur. These people will eat themselves, but we really want the children out first.

122
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:39:52pm
123
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:40:46pm

re: #119 freetoken

I’m beginning to get to the same point here.

I would love to see a breakdown by faith of those in the standoff.

124
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:42:12pm

re: #113 jaunte

If he can’t raise his cattle on his own land, I don’t see why he gets to let them mess up 34,000 acres of public land and ask for more. He can buy land in Texas that actually has grass on it.

In a rational world ranchers and the feds would work together to properly maintain grazing land. That land needs to be grazed by something, and since we’ve thoroughly messed up the ecosystems and pretty much removed the original grazing animals, proper cattle grazing is actually a good thing. Overgrazing is not. Maintaining the balance means the land will be healthy and there will be grazing for cattle for the foreseeable future.

Yes, the BLM has had screwed up policies from time to time. Our understanding has been and is, imperfect, but maybe we could try to do our best.

125
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:43:52pm

re: #122 Aunty Entity Dragon

Is her shirt made of paper clips?

Please tell me it is. Lie if you have to.

126
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:46:03pm

re: #123 Ziggy_TARDIS

I’m beginning to get to the same point here.

I would love to see a breakdown by faith of those in the standoff.

Do you want to send them holiday greetings?

127
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:47:03pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

I have a hunch, off of history, on what I think the breakdown will be, based on history of defiance against the Federal Government.

That’s all I’ll say.

128
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:48:41pm

re: #124 calochortus

I just think if you need more than 3,400 acres to graze 100 cows, that land may not be right for cows.

129
freetoken  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:48:45pm

re: #127 Ziggy_TARDIS

The problem is the increasing risk towards innocents as highly armed, and delusional, people involve their family and children.

130
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:49:04pm

re: #127 Ziggy_TARDIS

I have a hunch, off of history, on what I think the breakdown will be, based on history of defiance against the Federal Government.

That’s all I’ll say.

Report to the Introspection Laboratory. Don’t come out until you get the right answer.

131
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:50:15pm

Meanwhile in Iran…

Somehow, don’t think this would be allowed in Saudi.

132
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:51:32pm

re: #130 Decatur Deb

Explain?

133
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:54:58pm

re: #132 Ziggy_TARDIS

Explain?

Are you comfortable speculating on the supposed civic behavior of religious groups?

134
bratwurst  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:55:15pm

re: #123 Ziggy_TARDIS

I would love to see a breakdown by faith of those in the standoff.

Leave the sorting of people by their religion to Trump and his fans, ok?

135
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:55:30pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

No. I see your point.

136
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:56:46pm

re: #129 freetoken

Indeed-the civilian population is heavily armed as it is.

The best outcome would be for those interlocutors to leave immediately. That should be the Number One thing the Committee for Safety enforces. If you don’t have an Orgon driver’s license and your aren’t media, get your ass our of the area now.

137
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:56:58pm

Earlier today, the Sharp Family Singers performed “This land is my land” at the Malheur Refuge.

138
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:57:29pm

re: #128 jaunte

I just think if you need more than 3,400 acres to graze 100 cows, that land may not be right for cows.

They are probably a sub-optimal grazing animal for New Mexico.

139
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:58:07pm

re: #137 jaunte

That’s a lot of charges.

140
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2016 • 8:59:56pm

re: #137 jaunte

@jjmacnab, writer about anti-government extremism at Forbes.

I don’t follow her, but I check occasionally. Ho. Lee. Shit.

It’s open sedition what these fucks are engaged in out in eastern Oregon. Bad craziness.

141
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:00:17pm

re: #139 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

They’re apparently a ‘don’t spare the rod’ kind of family.

142
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:06:40pm

In the middle of a listen of Becca Stevens Band’s “Perfect Animal.” I bought it tonight.

Delightful noise!

Thank you Charles for the recommendation!

143
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:09:12pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

It’s not a liberal movie, or a movie for liberals, moreover it is based on certain notions about population genetics that are usually promoted by conservatives. So I don’t know why you would be the first liberal to say that ;)

144
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:11:30pm

re: #140 teleskiguy

That’s why the Feds, once they got the evidence they need, need to drop the hammer on these cretins and give them 24 hours to give their offspring clear passage.

Once that happens, then you will see opinions change quickly.

145
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:12:28pm
146
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:12:36pm

re: #7 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

my apologies for being a pain in the ass about this, but i think this asshole has a serious chance of being the next president

He has a serious chance of winning the GOP nomination. His has the same chance of winning the general as High Chancellor Sutler of Norsefire did; he needs a massive terrorist attack or economic collapse to panic the electorate into voting for him. Other than that, he’s the least popular candidate running and he can’t win the general.

147
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:12:56pm

Somewhere in Russia there’s now a Young Putinist newspaper for schoolchildren.

148
Reality Based Steve  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:13:09pm

Well gang, I’m outta here. Stay warm, and remember, yellow snow =/= lemon ice.

RBS

149
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:14:08pm

So website advertising their meetings is here, next up is Boise on the 30th.
utahsfreedom.org

150
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:14:18pm

re: #143 Nyet

I’d like to say it’s more a movie of what happens when we decide to let the Commanding Self take control.

151
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:15:21pm

re: #146 Big Beautiful Door

He has a serious chance of winning the GOP nomination. His has the same chance of winning the general as High Chancellor Sutler of Norsefire did; he needs a massive terrorist attack or economic collapse to panic the electorate into voting for him.

Which a lot of folks around the world may try to deliver. Moreover, I suspect the terrorist attack wouldn’t have to be on the American soil to significantly influence the election.

152
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:17:27pm

re: #145 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I don’t have a problem with the “contract termination” part. I suspect, however, that they will still expect to graze their cattle on someone else’s land without paying for it. Something not mentioned in the text.

153
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:17:49pm

re: #145 jaunte

First of all, terminating a ranching contract is not sedition. At the worst it is a civil action. Further, I am not sure of the procedure for terminating a ranching contract, but I am sure it is spelled out in the ranching contract itself. Legally, that notarized document may actually be meaningless.

154
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:18:33pm

re: #152 calochortus

That’s exactly what they think they’re “terminating.”
The obligation to pay for what they’re using.

155
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:19:25pm

re: #153 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Sure, they’re just refusing to acknowledge the federal ownership of the land in question.

156
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:19:40pm

re: #149 ausador

So website advertising their meetings is here, next up is Boise on the 30th.
utahsfreedom.org

Great sponsors list.

157
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:20:10pm

re: #147 Nyet

Somewhere in Russia there’s now a Young Putinist newspaper for schoolchildren.

[Embedded content]

He’s bent on making the Russian soul a penitentiary hellscape again, I see. What a guy.

158
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:21:00pm

re: #154 jaunte

I’m guessing they may be surprised to find the government wants its money. Cliven is a very bad precedent, however the recent 9th circuit finding as to water rights not giving one grazing rights might finally convince the feds to crack down on this sort of thing.

159
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:22:07pm

re: #155 jaunte

If they were actually trying to do that they would then have to declare that the contract was null and void. By “terminating” the contract, they acknowledge that the federal government is still the authority over that land.

160
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:22:15pm

re: #147 Nyet

re: #157 Pawn of the Oppressor

Is he enough of an “ism” to keep that going after he’s dead?

161
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:23:31pm

re: #159 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

If they were actually trying to do that they would then have to declare that the contract was null and void. By “terminating” the contract, they acknowledge that the federal government is still the authority over that land.

Yeah, but remember that they basically follow space wizard law.

162
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:24:19pm

re: #160 Decatur Deb

Is he enough of an “ism” to keep that going after he’s dead?

Depends on when it happens.

163
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:24:33pm

re: #159 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

They’re very incoherent about negotiating with the Feds. They say on the one hand a federal agency has no authority there, and then make a great show of ‘terminating’ a contract.

164
calochortus  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:25:22pm

I’m going to say good night.

Hasta mañana, Lizards.

165
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:26:04pm

re: #161 The Ghost of a Flea

They are smarter than you think. By not properly terminating the contract, it remains in force and they can continue to graze. All they are doing is not paying the fees required by that contract. That means the “offense” is a much simpler delinquency rather than theft of government property. This lets them play on both sides of the barbed wire.

166
unproven innocence  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:26:45pm

re: #145 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Is suspect that notary’s commission may expire sooner than Nov 5, 2018.

167
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:27:31pm

re: #166 unproven innocence

She may claim duress.

168
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:27:38pm

re: #158 calochortus

I’m guessing they may be surprised to find the government wants its money. Cliven is a very bad precedent, however the recent 9th circuit finding as to water rights not giving one grazing rights might finally convince the feds to crack down on this sort of thing.

I forget where I read it but there are something like 1600+ ranchers who are in arrears on grazing fees, not bad really. But Cliven owes more than all the rest of them put together.

169
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:28:17pm

re: #163 jaunte

They’re very incoherent about negotiating with the Feds. They say on the one hand a federal agency has no authority there, and then make a great show of ‘terminating’ a contract.

Granted, but the termination is probably (depending on the original contract) just a show. You can sing and dance all you want, but the only thing that matters is a properly terminated contract, and that “show” doesn’t terminate anything. See my 165

170
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:28:37pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Allow me to be the very first liberal ever on the internet to say Idiocracy is a terrible movie. Lazily written, badly photographed, shitily directed, just bad. I’ve watched it two times and laughed exactly three times in toto.

171
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:28:45pm

re: #165 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

They are smarter than you think. By not properly terminating the contract, it remains in force and they can continue to graze. All they are doing is not paying the fees required by that contract. That means the “offense” is a much simpler delinquency rather than theft of government property. This lets them play on both sides of the barbed wire.

Man.

This is yet another wingnut group where the cynical opportunism and the blind idealism are hard to divvy up…or are possibly the same thing, because sufficient narcissism means that any want can be slotted into an ethos at need.

172
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:29:04pm

re: #167 jaunte

She won’t need to. A notary is just a witness, not a participant.

173
unproven innocence  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:33:55pm

re: #172 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I didn’t mention the not-yet-filled-in blank fields, not yet witnessed.

174
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:35:27pm

re: #173 unproven innocence

I thought they were whited out like some people do when they post documents with peoples’ names.

175
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:35:41pm
176
Timothy Watson  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:35:55pm

re: #173 unproven innocence

I didn’t mention the not-yet-filled-in blank fields, not yet witnessed.

I believe, technically, the notary is only attesting to the signature, not the other contents of the form, but I could be wrong.

I just find it funny that sovereign citizens are using a government licensed notary who are suppose to see a driver’s license of someone before attesting to their signature.

177
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:37:12pm

Les Zaitz:

“…Occupiers say ranchers would revert to “historic” use of that land to continue grazing. What they seemed to have overlooked is that their plan calls for private ownership of the same high desert expanses that the federal government now rents at subsidized cost to the ranchers. They haven’t answered how ranchers would graze on what becomes private land.

Ranchers say the idea wouldn’t work in any event. Bundy’s claim to want to restore economic vitality to the county doesn’t match the disruption his notions would cause for ranchers reliant on public grazing allotments.”

178
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:39:59pm

re: #173 unproven innocence

I didn’t mention the not-yet-filled-in blank fields, not yet witnessed.

re: #176 Timothy Watson

I believe, technically, the notary is only attesting to the signature, not the other contents of the form, but I could be wrong.

I just find it funny that sovereign citizens are using a government licensed notary who are suppose to see a driver’s license of someone before attesting to their signature.

Analyzing the legal standing of Sovereign BS is like studying the aerodynamics of Tinker Bell.

179
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:41:07pm

re: #176 Timothy Watson

I’m not sure what forms of ID are required for a notary to attest, but I wouldn’t be surprised that a nirth certificate would suffice, and that would be “local enough” for these guys.
That’s also part of the reason I argue that the document is meaningless. I originally assumed some fields were whited out, but when I scrolled back up there are clearly blank. Since you can’t amend the document without getting the notary to do it again, it doesn’t even say what contract is being terminated.

180
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:41:19pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

181
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:42:04pm

‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

182
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:44:10pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

Analyzing the legal stand of Sovereign BS is like studying the aerodynamics of Tinker Bell.

That may be but you’re missing the point. They’ve conditioned you into assuming whatever they do is a political statement. Remember these guys are freeloaders first and foremost. They put on a big show about rejecting the feds’ ownership and authority, but legally, they did nothing to threaten their access to the ranchland.

183
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:45:19pm

Boils down to greed and refusal to accept that BLM might care more about the status of the land than the rancher’s profits from grazing on said land. They want to overgraze and make more money now while not caring whether or not they destroy the grazing in a few years and make it so that no cattle can effectively use it.

There was overgrazed pasture next to my brother-in-laws place in western Colorado. Pounded down soil, very little growing on it beyond weeds, and it couldn’t support livestock (or very few). Remediating it is expensive since you have to plow and re-seed it, and even then not use it for a year or two to allow the grasses a chance to get a foothold. And this was “bottom” land near a river and irrigation ditch (usually dry), as compared to the upper pastures where you had to be even more careful.

184
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:47:24pm
185
Kragar  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:52:36pm
186
jaunte  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:53:45pm
187
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:55:10pm

re: #182 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

That may be but you’re missing the point. They’ve conditioned you into assuming whatever they do is a political statement. Remember these guys are freeloaders first and foremost. They put on a big show about rejecting the feds’ ownership and authority, but legally, they did nothing to threaten their access to the ranchland.

At least one of them is a lawyer, and probably at this for a while. The hard part is figuring out when the Bundys are exploiting the milita types, and when they’re being exploited.

188
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:56:43pm

re: #175 jaunte

The problem is that these guys have thrown the baby out with the bath water. And the crazy thing is that they use the US Code (which may or may not be, but is still subservient to the US constitution) to justify their batshit insane behavior.

I think it’s time to have a Million Moderate March at the conclave.

189
Kryptik  Jan 23, 2016 • 9:59:41pm

At this point, it seems like the hands-off approach to them is simply emboldening these assholes and inflating their sense of righteousness and control even further. A hard crackdown would obviously end up in a bloody mess (in the British sense, not the literal sense…I hope), but I’m not sure letting them be and simply monitoring them is doing anything more but making them feel invincible.

190
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:00:03pm

LOL…

191
Shimshon  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:01:25pm

re: #118 ObserverArt

Oh my god…Tina Fey is killing it in the SNL opening. It’s scary good.

Had to log in. Look for clips…

please send clips

192
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:06:25pm

re: #177 jaunte

I’m not saying I smell a scam…but I can definitely see where you could slot a scam into all these demands.

Faking old records to pick up parcels of land, combined with the “Committee of Safety”—interested parties who have a bias—volunteering to do the work, combined with the underlying coercion—compliance, or more militia action.

Another bit of potential fuckery is chain of inheritance: if a piece flipped to the federal government, part of the reversion would be finding the claimant, yes?

I’m certain of one thing, because it fell from the horse’s mouth: they won’t let the Paiute get land back, even though they’d have the best claim in the “unwinding” process, because of old treaties.

Yeah, I’m going to go out of a limb and call it: shenanigans are afoot. Sovereign citizens are consistently ass-deep in fraud claim and taking over shit in a nominally “legal” manner.

193
KingKenrod  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:11:54pm

re: #189 Kryptik

At this point, it seems like the hands-off approach to them is simply emboldening these assholes and inflating their sense of righteousness and control even further. A hard crackdown would obviously end up in a bloody mess (in the British sense, not the literal sense…I hope), but I’m not sure letting them be and simply monitoring them is doing anything more but making them feel invincible.

Yes. The lesson I see is that if you show up with enough people and guns the govt will treat you with deference and respect. It’s happening here, it happened at the Bundy ranch. That’s not the lesson you want to teach, especially not now.

There’s got to be justice, and I don’t mean a bloodbath, these guys have to go to prison for a long time. Make an example out of them.

194
Shimshon  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:14:51pm

re: #187 Decatur Deb

At least one of them is a lawyer, and probably at this for a while. The hard part is figuring out when the Bundys are exploiting the milita types, and when they’re being exploited.

A lawyer, or a “lawyer”? There is a difference with the sovereign citizens. One nut ball claims to be a judge from Colorado and his only qualifications are having a computer repair shop.

195
Nyet  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:19:10pm
196
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:29:12pm

Missed tieing the record by a tenth of an inch…

197
sagehen  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:33:59pm

And tomorrow morning’s paper, with stories of how the the plows did or didn’t keep up with it, if they were or weren’t properly deployed… will decide whether or not DeBlasio gets re-elected. (there was a storm a couple weeks after he took office that people on Park Avenue bitched that he’d sent too many plows to Brooklyn and they didn’t think their Avenue was properly catered to; they probably overstated the case, but they own the newspapers so.)

198
Decatur Deb  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:34:34pm

re: #194 Shimshon

A lawyer, or a “lawyer”? There is a difference with the sovereign citizens. One nut ball claims to be a judge from Colorado and his only qualifications are having a computer repair shop.

I shall have to demand to see his long-form JD.

199
Cheechako  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:37:20pm

re: #138 calochortus

They are probably a sub-optimal grazing animal for New Mexico.

Cattle in New Mexico have to pack lunches.

200
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:39:01pm
201
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 10:48:04pm

Video of part of the Ceder City, Utah meeting is up…

202
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:06:18pm

re: #191 Shimshon

please send clips

Here is the Fey as Palin endorsement speech clip (4:53)
Tina Fey’s ‘SNL’ Sarah Palin Impression Expertly Mocks The Donald Trump Endorsement

203
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:09:18pm

re: #195 Nyet

That’s about normal for the Hanbalis.

204
sagehen  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:10:28pm

Japan is really good about snow removal…

theatlantic.com

205
Cheechako  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:15:02pm

If I remember correctly, the BLM and Forest Service have about 34,000 grazing permits nationwide. These 2 or 3 dozen ranchers probably cause 90% of the grazing problems the Federal agencies have to deal with. The vast majority of the grazing permit holders take great pride in the management of both their own and the public lands they use for their ranching operations.

The correct term is “Grazing Permit”. It is a Permit that authorizes the permit holder to graze a limited number of cattle or sheep within designated grazing allotments. Allotments can be fairly small to thousands of acres. Many allotments are further divided into “Pastures”. Grazing may be rotated between pastures during the grazing season to disperse the use. In some cases pastures may not be used during a grazing season in order to rest and let the vegetation become better established.

The problem for the past several tears has been the sever drought. With out sufficient rainfall there is a severe reduction of suitable forage for the critters. The Feds have had to reduce the number of cattle/sheep on the range because the forage is just not available.
Total and complete grazing during the drought years will take years to recover.

Yes the formula for grazing fees, which was established by Congress, are ridiculously low compared with rented, private grazing land. But the private land usually has more tons of forage per acre than the government allotments which makes their value much higher.

206
BeachDem  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:27:26pm
207
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:46:04pm

Be careful there are a couple of articles out there claiming to quote “Mrs. Hammond” that are full of made up propaganda. The Mrs. Hammond they are “qouting” is Betsy Hammond who is a journalist for the Oregonian. These articles lead you to believe it is Susan Hammond from the ranch that wrote the “quoted” material.

Fake…
beforeitsnews.com

Also Fake…
thesleuthjournal.com

208
ausador  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:51:37pm

RE: my #207

209
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2016 • 11:59:18pm
210
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:03:40am

More good guys with guns, argument over a gun repair left gun shop owner and his son dead. The gun owner and his son were both wounded and taken to hospital. :(

211
teleskiguy  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:07:09am
212
Timothy Watson  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:07:52am

re: #210 ausador

More good guys with guns, argument over a gun repair left gun shop owner and his son dead. The gun owner and his son were both wounded and taken to hospital. :(

[Embedded content]

Unpossible, I’ve been assured by conservatives that gun shops are one place that gun violence never happens.

213
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:16:01am

This ticks me off.

214
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 2:15:57am

re: #213 Ziggy_TARDIS

Not clicking. CJ Werleman, in addition to being am infamous plagiarist (google) and anti-atheist bigot, has also been caught spreading fakes about the I-P conflict. He’s scum. Try another source.

215
Dr Lizardo  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:00:08am

Meanwhile, here in Europe:

The Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner suggested in an interview that the solution to the refugee crisis was to seal off Greece from the rest of Europe.

A story in the Financial Times claimed that the idea was a real plan, as European officials were discussing a plan to pump money into the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia to build a stronger border with Greece, blocking the flow of refugees north and effectively stranding thousands in Greece.

The new policy would shift the EU’s migrant frontline from the Turkish coast and the Aegean Sea to Greece’s northern border. Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister who has feared such a move, has warned that his country could become a “black box” for refugees.

According to the Financial Times report, the plan was discussed by EU ambassadors after Miroslav Cerar, Slovenia’s prime minister, sent a letter to his EU counterparts urging “direct assistance” to FYROM to prevent “certain irregular migrants from crossing the Greece-Macedonian* border”. (*his quote)

pappaspost.com

216
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:01:59am

re: #215 Dr Lizardo

They should build a wall. And Mexico will pay for it!

217
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:17:42am

Reading some initial articles about the fake “Gospel of Jesus’ Wife”, came upon this gem:

nytimes.com

What convinced them it was probably genuine was the fading of the ink on the papyrus fibers, and traces of ink adhered to the bent fibers at the torn edges. The back side is so faint that only five words are visible, one only partly: “my moth[er],” “three,” “forth which.”

“It would be impossible to forge,” said Dr. Luijendijk, who contributed to Dr. King’s paper.

Dr. Bagnall reasoned that a forger would have had to be expert in Coptic grammar, handwriting and ideas. Most forgeries he has seen were nothing more than gibberish. And if it were a forgery intended to cause a sensation or make someone rich, why would it have lain in obscurity for so many years?

“It’s hard to construct a scenario that is at all plausible in which somebody fakes something like this. The world is not really crawling with crooked papyrologists,” Dr. Bagnall said.

What does one do when so-called “experts” turn out to be fucking idiots?

218
Odie Hugh Manatee  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:31:20am

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

219
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:55:33am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

My condolences, gdf.

220
Alyosha  Jan 24, 2016 • 4:38:08am

re: #217 Nyet

‘Will sex up translations for food’?

221
goddamnedfrank  Jan 24, 2016 • 4:38:18am
222
Jayleia  Jan 24, 2016 • 4:43:37am

So…I have a small problem, a rodent in my house…and this will be my next step unless I find another option…

I’m not sure if I should put //, because I’m not feeling all that // today…

//

223
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 4:44:29am

re: #222 Jayleia

Think of it as a pet. //

224
dharmamark  Jan 24, 2016 • 4:54:42am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Sorry dude. Sucks.

225
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 5:18:31am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

So sorry for your loss.

Having once been married to a person with the same problem I know well the emotional numbness that has to be acquired to deal with them.

226
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 5:38:08am

re: #210 ausador

More human sacrifices for the American Faith.

227
lawhawk  Jan 24, 2016 • 5:39:50am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Click to Reveal

My thoughts and prayers to you and yours.

228
lawhawk  Jan 24, 2016 • 5:40:39am
229
CleverToad  Jan 24, 2016 • 5:52:00am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Sympathies for you and your family, GDFrank — it’s a hard condition to deal with, for the folks around the sufferer. Lost my father and grandfather both to complications of same.

230
PhillyPretzel  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:01:55am

I just published a page with some pictures of the Jan 2016 blizzard. littlegreenfootballs.com

231
PhillyPretzel  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:05:59am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

I am sorry to hear of your loss.

232
Dave In Austin  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:21:07am

Maybe I’m off the mark on this. Seems that the Bundy Bunch is not really made up of the stereotypical bald head tattooed ammosexual (no saying that there are some of those there). What I’m seeing are (real) western cowboys/rancher types (not Texas cowboys).
I’ve known and worked with both types in my time. These western ranchers have a tendency to lean Mormon. I know that the Bundy’s are, and come from the more fundie sects that still practice polygamy around the NV/UT/AZ area.

Is this a Mormon majority that’s involved with this? I’m starting to see a pattern form here.

Regardless, they need to start covertly picking these people off as they leave the compound. Then, so they can’t return, give them a swift lesson in OUR legal sys.

$.02

233
PhillyPretzel  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:27:03am

re: #232 Dave In Austin

It is another possibility. There are so many variables and that is why the FBI is just watching and not acting. I would like for this incident to end with no harm done to anyone.

235
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:31:42am

re: #184 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Maybe a stupid question, but how does one obtain the link to a posted video?

I’ve tried quoting the post, read the LGF help sections re links - which appear to only advise how to post links -, spy, super spy, YouTube and Google.

Sometimes I’m successful using YouTube and Google; but being able to directly obtain the link from the post would be nice, if possible.

Thanks.

236
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:34:32am

re: #235 BeenHereAwhile

There may be some plugins that let you do it. I usually just inspect the code.

MP4 Video

237
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:42:53am

The Russian Orthodox Church’s new “Synodal Section of Youth Affairs” is “Sinodalnyj Otdel po Delam Molodyozhi”, or, abbreviated, SODM.

They have a corresponding logo.

Image: logo.png

half-/

238
Decatur Deb  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:47:03am

re: #237 Nyet

The Russian Orthodox Church’s new “Synodal Section of Youth Affairs” is “Sinodalnyj Otdel po Delam Molodyozhi”, or, abbreviated, SODM.

They have a corresponding logo.

Image: logo.png

half-/

Who is the Orthodox patron of ironic coincidences?

239
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:50:36am

re: #238 Decatur Deb

St. Lucifer.

240
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:50:57am

re: #237 Nyet

The Russian Orthodox Church’s new “Synodal Section of Youth Affairs” is “Sinodalnyj Otdel po Delam Molodyozhi”, or, abbreviated, SODM.

They have a corresponding logo.

Image: logo.png

half-/

They could have a sub section called “Political Interests of Children and Parents” Politicheske Interessy Detei i Roditelei or PIDR for short…

241
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:51:59am

re: #240 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

They could have a sub section called “Political Interests of Children and Parents” Politicheske Interessy Devushek i Roditelei or PIDR for short…

Devushka = young woman

242
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:53:41am

re: #241 Nyet

Devushka = young woman

right. fixed it, thanks

Detei I roditelei

243
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:53:52am

re: #239 Nyet

St. Lucifer.

Perfect.

244
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 24, 2016 • 6:59:47am

Here is a spectacular photo of a volcanic plume under a starry sky in Hawaii, for your viewing pleasure

slate.com

245
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:08:35am

re: #122 Aunty Entity Dragon

[Embedded content]

Secretary Funbags

246
Bubblehead II  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:08:35am

re: #244 Big Beautiful Door

Here is a spectacular photo of a volcanic plume under a starry sky in Hawaii, for your viewing pleasure

slate.com

Looks like something straight out of Mordor.

248
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:20:45am

…

249
darthstar  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:21:24am

re: #210 ausador

More good guys with guns, argument over a gun repair left gun shop owner and his son dead. The gun owner and his son were both wounded and taken to hospital. :(

[Embedded content]

And there will be one less gun shop in Arizona.

250
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:21:38am

Morning. Local NBC politics show is claiming Ohio Johnny Kasich is second in the New Hampshire polling. Interesting. I wonder where they are getting their numbers.

Of course the local Republican spokesman on the show is all giddy saying if Kasich can get in between Trump and Cruz and stay away from the attacks he might be a surprise down the road.

Heh. The local program host just said she was surprised Bernie was doling so well for a gadfly senator from a small East coast state. Well!

251
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:29:01am

Yes!

The BBC has won a case against Russian TV channel RT, which claimed the corporation faked a report on Syria.
The station said the BBC had “staged” a chemical weapons attack for a news report, and digitally altered the words spoken by an interviewee.

[…]

Separately, Ofcom said another episode of The Truthseeker was guilty of a further “serious breach” of the broadcasting code.
The episode, titled Genocide of Eastern Ukraine, contained claims that the Ukrainian government was deliberately bombing civilians in the east of the country, had murdered and tortured journalists and carried out other acts such as crucifying babies.
Ukrainian army forces were accused of “ethnic cleansing” and were compared to the Nazis in World War Two.
The programme had “little or no counterbalance or objectivity”, Ofcom ruled.
The only response to the allegations in the broadcast was in the form of a caption saying “Kiev claims it is not committing genocide, denies casualty reports”, which appeared on screen for six seconds.

bbc.com

252
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:33:52am

Former MSNBC host Ed Schultz lands at Russia Today’s American channel

Fuck Ed Schultz and fuck anyone lending credibility to Putin’s war against liberal democracy.

253
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:34:52am

Meet the militants:

Ammon Bundy

Bundy lost a home in a short sale in 2012 and is behind in his property taxes. Idaho public records show that he purchased a home in Emmet, ID in June 2015. Bundy owns Valet Fleet Service, a truck repair company that applied for a $530,000 loan from the federal Small Business Administration in 2010, and he is listed as a member of several other Arizona companies.

Ryan Bundy

Ryan Bundy, 43, is another of Cliven Bundy’s 14 children. He has a long paper trail of legal troubles in Utah dating back 10 years, including an alleged clash with courthouse bailiffs last year in which he was arrested.

Ryan Payne

Payne is an Iraq War veteran who served in an Army long-range surveillance unit.

Jon Ritzheimer

He sells anti-Islam T-shirts through his apparel company…
…
Military records show Ritzheimer was in the Marine Corps Reserves from 2002 through 2014, serving two tours in Iraq and a motor transport driver.

Blaine Cooper

Cooper was convicted of aggravated assault, a felony, in 2009. He faced other charges in Arizona courts, but they were dismissed.

Robert “LaVoy” Finicum

He filed for bankruptcy in Arizona in 2002

Wes Kjar

“I’m not saying I want to die,” he said. “I want to surrender. But I want to surrender on the right terms.” Reuters also showed a photograph of Kjar from inside the compound, holding an assault weapon and wearing what appears to be an armored vest.

Brian Cavalier

He was convicted in Arizona of misdemeanor theft in 2014, and extreme DUI, also a misdemeanor, in 2005. The U.S. Marine Corps said it has no record of Cavalier, though he has claimed service, according to news reports.

Neil Wampler

According to court records and authorities, Wampler is a convicted killer. He was convicted of second-degree murder in California in 1977 in the death of his father, records and authorities say.

Kenneth Medenbach

Officers took him into custody Friday, Jan. 15, 2016, and accused him of stealing a pickup from the refuge.

Court records show Medenbach has faced federal charges in connection with occupying public land three times before. The judge in one earlier case denied Medenbach’s release while charges were pending because he had threatened armed resistance.

Medenbach has been repeatedly charged with driving without a valid license, giving false information to law enforcement officers and failing to appear at court hearings, and he refused to pay fines associated with zoning violations at a Klamath County property adjacent to his first occupation, in 1995, where he dug out an underground bunker. Medenbach’s convictions include felony driving with a suspended license.

Brandon Curtis

Curtiss previously worked as an officer for the Nez Perce tribal police force and Orofino police. He has filed for bankruptcy twice, most recently in 2009.

My take?

A collection of wackos who are completely irresponsible; the total number of bankruptcies surpassed only by the total number of criminal convictions, which, in total, are more than the collective brain cells they possess.

They can’t manage their cattle with heavily subsidized grazing fees form the government, but want the land to be private, where grazing costs 10x as much.

They suck government resources (e.g., wasn’t blue tarp guy, Finicum’s, sole income the $131k he got for foster kids - which he probably used as slave labor, poor kids) while complaining about government. Spare me.

And they’ll all wind up costing everyone more money when they spend year after year in prison.

Losers every one.

With military/police experience. And guns. Lots of guns.

254
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:37:17am

re: #252 Nyet

SCHULTZ: Alan, I don’t think enough attention has been paid to actually how Trump would function as president. Let’s put policies aside for a moment. Let’s put aside what he believes or what he might do — how would he do it? I think he would function very well as president of the United States. I think he’s used to making decisions. I think that he can manage teams. He can put the fear of God in people to make sure that they perform and he’ll make cuts and he’ll do things that, he’ll, I believe that he would be a very good manager and a very good …

255
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:39:00am

re: #217 Nyet

Reading some initial articles about the fake “Gospel of Jesus’ Wife”, came upon this gem:

nytimes.com

What does one do when so-called “experts” turn out to be fucking idiots?

Reminds me of the documents Mark Hofmann was passing off to the Mormon church as real. He claimed they were stampless covers, basically, a type of mail prior to the invention of postage stamps. I mentioned his discoveries to my sister, who was a stamp collector at the time. She said something was hinky, because it was likely that he could turn up one important stampless cover, but the fact that he kept coming up with important stampless covers indicated to her there was a problem which needed checking into. In the summer of 1985, I brought this up at a symposium discussing the Hofmann discoveries and I was basically blown off by the highly-educated historians.

It turned out I was right to be suspicious, because Hofmann had been forging documents. He killed two people two months later to try and protect his secret. You have no idea how upset I was to find out I was right. But the historians didn’t bother to look into the number of stampless covers Hofmann was turning up, and asking stamp collectors questions. That was beneath them. If they could have put a stop to Hofmann then, maybe two people would have lived…

I read Carrier’s post and it appears that the “gospel of Jesus’ wife” appears to have been copied from a Coptic interlinear, line breaks and all. As much as I dislike Carrier for his belief that Jesus himself was mythical and not a real person, I agree with him that this is probably a forgery.

256
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:39:03am

Junior Murvin - Lucifer

Junior Murvin - Lucifer

257
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:39:33am

re: #254 Nyet

Schultz is an idiot, isn’t he?

[T]here is somewhat of a parallel between his approach but maybe a little bit more radical but he is closer to Reagan — Ronald Reagan than any of the other candidates from his standpoint of willing to try something and do something….I think he would function very well as President if he were given the opportunity.

258
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:39:40am

re: #218 Odie Hugh Manatee

[Embedded content]

This sounds very much like a guy I used to work with in racing. He was a shock setup specialists and rebuild and repair tech. He used to love to get drunk and claimed he had no problems with it, but he kept missing work days and smelling of alcohol and lack of personal care.

This is not a good thing in racing…especially parts on a car capable of going 200 mph with a driver counting on all the bits on the car being right. So, he was eventually fired.

About a year later everyone got the news that one night he must have gotten very drunk and passed out falling in his apartment and hitting his head. Someone found him dead a few days later. Damn. He was a good dude too…just very troubled.

259
Eventual Carrion  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:40:53am

re: #24 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The Bundy gang is pretending to have its own legal system. And threatening to harm reporters.

Probably because the Bundy Gang are so constitutional and all.

260
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:41:53am

re: #257 Nyet

Schultz is an idiot, isn’t he?

Schultz has always been an idiot. He was passionate for the left (supposedly) but he was never smart. I used to listen to him on Sirius and he was bereft of knowledge and understanding. He just did it loudly.

261
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:41:58am

re: #255 dholmes32

I read Carrier’s post and it appears that the “gospel of Jesus’ wife” appears to have been copied from a Coptic interlinear, line breaks and all. As much as I dislike Carrier for his belief that Jesus himself was mythical and not a real person, I agree with him that this is probably a forgery.

I don’t know why you would dislike Carrier for that, his case is well-argued. Have you even read his two books on that? Now, I myself am not sold on his idea, but he surely has shown that there is no “certainty” about Jesus’ historical existence. As far as I’m concerned, it’s “somewhat probable” that he existed, no more than that.

262
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:42:54am

re: #260 WhatEVs

Populist Schultz praises populist Trump. Not far-fetched, if you think about it.

263
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:48:20am

re: #252 Nyet

Former MSNBC host Ed Schultz lands at Russia Today’s American channel

Fuck Ed Schultz and fuck anyone lending credibility to Putin’s war against liberal democracy.

Ed’s a head case. He is also a big Bernie supporter. Want some bad optics? How about if Bernie would show up on Shultz’ new show?

Speaking of Bernie, he’s on MTP. Chucky just asked him about no current Democrats endorsing him. Bernie said that is an indication of him taking on the Democrat political establishment, the big Democrat backers like bankers and the big political machine.

So, Bernie is still running as a Democrat is he?

264
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:49:49am

re: #263 ObserverArt

Bernie has usually shown good judgment in such things. I hope not to be disappointed.

265
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:51:38am

re: #263 ObserverArt

Hmm, just googled through RT’s site. It’s fully in Bernie’s camp.

266
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:51:51am

re: #261 Nyet

I don’t know why you would dislike Carrier for that, his case is well-argued. Have you even read his two books on that? Now, I myself am not sold on his idea, but he surely has shown that there is no “certainty” about Jesus’ historical existence. As far as I’m concerned, it’s “somewhat probable” that he existed, no more than that.

I have not read his books and do not plan on doing so. I am personally of the opinion that Carrier wants desperately to prove that Jesus is a myth because it gives more weight to his atheism. He can do that, but the rest of the scholarly world, as well as those of us highly-educated laypersons can give him the side eye. (Just to be clear: I am no orthodox believer; I stopped going to church several years ago for quite a number of reasons.)

267
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:53:23am

re: #254 Nyet

Really Ed?

Damn I wondered about him. I guess he really is just another Beck. He’ll back whatever pays the bills or gather him some attention.

Back to Bernie on MTP. He is now speaking around Clinton. I don’t think he mentioned her once. He did say when he is up against Trump he will win. Chuck Todd said Bloomberg may enter especially if Bernie gets the Dem nomination. That lit Bernie up. He said he would win because America doesn’t want an Oligarchy.

268
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:54:09am

re: #266 dholmes32

I have not read his books and do not plan on doing so. I am personally of the opinion that Carrier wants desperately to prove that Jesus is a myth because it gives more weight to his atheism. He can do that, but the rest of the scholarly world, as well as those of us highly-educated laypersons can give him the side eye. (Just to be clear: I am no orthodox believer; I stopped going to church several years ago for quite a number of reasons.)

Your opinion happens to be absolutely unfounded. As for the academic world, his last book on that issue was peer-reviewed and published by a university.

269
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:54:43am

re: #267 ObserverArt

Really Ed?

Damn I wondered about him. I guess he really is just another Beck. He’ll back whatever pays the bills or gather him some attention.

Yup.

270
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 7:57:03am

Every time I think about these clowns in OR and what they want, all I see is a resulting Dust Bowl.

271
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:01:14am

re: #265 Nyet

Hmm, just googled through RT’s site. It’s fully in Bernie’s camp.

Well…we will be hearing about that.

Russia Today Backs American Socialist!

I would think Bernie would not want that.

By the way. Trump on the MTP phone. He says he and Bloomberg are long time friends, at least they used to be. He would love to run against Bloomberg and he thinks he would beat him. Ahhh…Trump.

272
Alephnaught  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:04:44am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

TTvnL5T2C8DCDhV95So/74xnk85E3S0rJw2eW3JJ/vADX0zdQuVdxU23VaHxDvjf1F0sMT2j2fg=

273
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:10:44am

David Brooks on MTP. With A attacking B and B attacking A you will end up with C! C being Marco Rubio.

Hahahaha….uh, maybe I shouldn’t laugh. Who the hell knows what is going on this year?

274
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:13:24am

A Picture Is Emerging: Everyone Who Has Ever Known Ted Cruz Grew To Hate His Guts

Bob Dole

“I question his allegiance to the party,” Mr. Dole said of Mr. Cruz. “I don’t know how often you’ve heard him say the word ‘Republican’ — not very often.” Instead, Mr. Cruz uses the word “conservative,” Mr. Dole said, before offering up a different word for Mr. Cruz: “extremist.”

College roommate Craig Mazin

My freshman year college roommate Ted Cruz is going to be elected Senator. In case I hadn’t made it clear, he’s also a huge asshole.

Another college roommate

People might think Craig is exaggerating. He’s not. I met Ted freshman week and loathed him within the hour. t.co

— Geoff (@gacohen)

More roommates

In addition to Mazin and Leitch, several fellow classmates who asked that their names not be used described the young Cruz with words like “abrasive,” “intense,” “strident,” “crank,” and “arrogant.” Four independently offered the word “creepy,” with some pointing to Cruz’s habit of donning a paisley bathrobe and walking to the opposite end of their dorm’s hallway where the female students lived.

“I would end up fielding the [girls’] complaints: ‘Could you please keep your roommate out of our hallway?’” Mazin says.

From his days as a SCOTUS clerk

In interviews with nearly two dozen of Mr. Cruz’s former colleagues on the court, many of the clerks working in the chambers of liberal justices, but also several from conservative chambers, depicted Mr. Cruz as “obsessed” with capital punishment. Some thought his recounting of the crimes — “dime store novel” was how one described his style — seemed more appropriate for a prosecutor persuading a jury than for a law clerk addressing the country’s nine foremost judges.

Such a charmer.

275
Dr Lizardo  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:14:55am

re: #255 dholmes32

Reminds me of the documents Mark Hofmann was passing off to the Mormon church as real. He claimed they were stampless covers, basically, a type of mail prior to the invention of postage stamps. I mentioned his discoveries to my sister, who was a stamp collector at the time. She said something was hinky, because it was likely that he could turn up one important stampless cover, but the fact that he kept coming up with important stampless covers indicated to her there was a problem which needed checking into. In the summer of 1985, I brought this up at a symposium discussing the Hofmann discoveries and I was basically blown off by the highly-educated historians.

It turned out I was right to be suspicious, because Hofmann had been forging documents. He killed two people two months later to try and protect his secret. You have no idea how upset I was to find out I was right. But the historians didn’t bother to look into the number of stampless covers Hofmann was turning up, and asking stamp collectors questions. That was beneath them. If they could have put a stop to Hofmann then, maybe two people would have lived…

I read Carrier’s post and it appears that the “gospel of Jesus’ wife” appears to have been copied from a Coptic interlinear, line breaks and all. As much as I dislike Carrier for his belief that Jesus himself was mythical and not a real person, I agree with him that this is probably a forgery.

With regard to Hofman, from what I gather, it’s entirely possible that some of his forgeries are still floating around there. By all accounts, he was one of the best forgers ever.

276
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:18:08am

It’s pretty simple: we don’t have any credible non-Christian accounts of Jesus before the very late, far removed, and thus irrelevant, Tacitus, whose own sources were likely Christians anyway (Josephus’ two mentions are not credible: one is universally acknowledged as having been tampered with, with no way to prove that it hadn’t been inserted wholesale, and no, contrary to some undead memes, no “primitive” Syriac or whatever version has been found - they all derive from the “tampered with” paragraph; the other, shorter one, although superficially more credible, isn’t cited before Eusebius by any author we would expect to have cited it and can thus be more credibly explained as an inadvertent scribal interpolation of two words of marginalia into the main text, with the Jesus who was meant being Jesus ben Ananias, who fits context, unlike Jesus of Nazareth).

Anonymous gospels written decades later based partially on oral stories, partially on plagiarizing each other (they’re basically reducible to “Mark”, yes, including “John”) and partially on freely inventing details to shore up the OT Messiah narrative aren’t credible. Such books would just as easily be spread about a fictional personage. All the “historicity criteria” proposed by this or that scholar trying to suss out details about the historical Yeshua ha-Notzri from the gospel mess are very uncertain and mostly flawed. And contrary to Ehrman, we don’t actually have all those funky “sources” like Q, M or L. Those are all hypothetical.

What’s left are Paul’s epistles, which have the distinction of being the earliest surviving Christian writings. Paul never saw Jesus, but he apparently met “James, brother of the Lord”. That’s basically it for the “hard” evidence for Jesus’s historicity - how one interprets this “brother of the Lord” - as a literal brother or as a general name for a Christian. Carrier’s explanation doesn’t convince me, I think literal brother is the reading that makes more sense. But that’s more or less it. Somewhat probable? Sure. “Historically certain”? Don’t make me laugh.

277
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:18:25am

Jeb! is blaming over-regulation for Flint.

278
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:18:41am

Jeb! says Snyder has been a great governor for Michigan.

279
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:19:19am

Jeb! is not the smart one.

280
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:22:52am

Robert Gates on MTP. Says building a coalition to go after ISIS is a nice idea. He said though for it to work you need to build a coalition in our own country and government and our country needs to speak as one mind.

Big hint there. Good luck with that.

281
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:23:48am

re: #244 Big Beautiful Door

Here is a spectacular photo of a volcanic plume under a starry sky in Hawaii, for your viewing pleasure

slate.com

I can see that from my house. Almost.

282
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:25:34am

re: #280 ObserverArt

We could start with an actual declaration of war to give the President the authority to do more……………………………………………………………………………………………….

283
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:31:50am

re: #276 Nyet

About the time that all the “Jesus freaks” were spreading the gospel, Jesus Christ Superstar was all the rage and I had a Baptist girlfriend trying to get me to come to Jesus, I also had a history teacher who taught us the importance of studying history based on original sources.

When I started applying those criteria to what I was reading about Christ and the New Testament, I realized that there was an unbridgeable gap.

284
nines09  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:33:15am
My head hurts. Really, really hurts. Think, think, think,think…..ah…..fuget..
285
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:36:48am

re: #284 nines09

Or, to quote from a Stephen King story… “Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”

286
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:45:00am

re: #277 Billy Batts

Jeb! is blaming over-regulation for Flint.

Michigan’s problems from the 1960’s up to recent times have been little about regulation and far more about blind indifference to reality.

287
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:47:49am

re: #282 GlutenFreeJesus

We could start with an actual declaration of war to give the President the authority to do more……………………………………………………………………………………………….

Never gonna happen in these polarized times. Those factions not represented by the president’s coalition (whoever the president was) would do anything to block such a declaration, having been whipped into a frenzy by fears the president would use emergency powers to become a dictator.

288
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:48:30am

re: #275 Dr Lizardo

With regard to Hofman, from what I gather, it’s entirely possible that some of his forgeries are still floating around there. By all accounts, he was one of the best forgers ever.

Over a decade after the Hofmann murders, it came out that a “discovered” Dickinson poem was a Hofmann forgery. Here’s a story about the poem from 2000:

theguardian.com

There’s also a book called “The Poet and the Murderer” by Simon Worrall.

At the time of the murders, Hofmann was trying to sell a forged copy of a most rare document, called “Oath of a Freeman.” Unlike the other documents he forged, which were handwritten, this was an attempt to forge a printed document. Hofmann was such a clever forger, new techniques to discover forgeries had to be developed for him. Among other things, the inks used by Hofmann were iron gall, but had a particular alligatoring pattern that would not have been detectable except under a microscope. I also remember that Hofmann apparently hung up his forgeries to dry, which caused the ink to flow certain ways with gravity. Had Hofmann not been so greedy, he might still be doing it.

289
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:49:26am

Jimmy Bain, dead at 68.

blabbermouth.net

290
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:49:52am

re: #284 nines09

[Embedded content]

Jeb! kind of looks like my kitty when she’s focusing in on a piece of ham I’m waving in front of her face. Her eyes nearly cross like his—but she looks more intelligent. At least you know she’s going for something. Jeb!—not so much.

291
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:50:26am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Never gonna happen in these polarized times. Those factions not represented by the president’s coalition (whoever the president was) would do anything to block such a declaration, having been whipped into a frenzy by fears the president would use emergency powers to become a dictator.

You mean Republicans blocking any Democrat. Please call it how it is not how you want it to be.

292
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:50:50am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Never gonna happen in these polarized times. Those factions not represented by the president’s coalition (whoever the president was) would do anything to block such a declaration, having been whipped into a frenzy by fears the president would use emergency powers to become a dictator.

You mean like how many Democrats didn’t back Bush and Cheney in Iraq?

Who is doing this polarization Dark?

293
SS. Trump = that splat on your window  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:51:48am

Sorry Frank. Very sad.

294
Eventual Carrion  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:52:24am

re: #210 ausador

More good guys with guns, argument over a gun repair left gun shop owner and his son dead. The gun owner and his son were both wounded and taken to hospital. :(

[Embedded content]

An armed society is a …

295
makeitstop  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:52:44am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Never gonna happen in these polarized times. Those factions not represented by the president’s coalition (whoever the president was) would do anything to block such a declaration, having been whipped into a frenzy by fears the president would use emergency powers to become a dictator.

I’ve only heard concerns remotely resembling that coming from one side.

And the GOP uses it as a cudgel to smack ‘weak’ Obama around. But I have to ask - by not agreeing to the issuance of an AUMF, what side are the Republicans really on here?

Give the poor MBF the day off here for once.

296
Eventual Carrion  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:53:16am

re: #212 Timothy Watson

Unpossible, I’ve been assured by conservatives that gun shops are one place that gun violence never happens.

It was a fun free zone.

297
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:55:23am

I think Dark threw a high hanging change up right over the plate. Not on his game today to be so obvious.

298
Eventual Carrion  Jan 24, 2016 • 8:55:41am

re: #216 Nyet

They should build a wall. And Mexico will pay for it!

I think Mexico might start questioning those charges on their credit card statement soon.

299
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:00:47am

re: #286 Dark_Falcon

Michigan’s problems from the 1960’s up to recent times have been little about regulation and far more about blind indifference to reality.

I also grew up in a single-industry town (Gary, Indiana, US Steel) and it is a very poor economic model to build a community on.

You can blame it on a lot of things, but poor economic planning led to a lot of the social issues we see today. Conservatives would have us view it the other way around.

300
Dr Lizardo  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:03:07am

re: #288 dholmes32

Over a decade after the Hofmann murders, it came out that a “discovered” Dickinson poem was a Hofmann forgery. Here’s a story about the poem from 2000:

theguardian.com

There’s also a book called “The Poet and the Murderer” by Simon Worrall.

At the time of the murders, Hofmann was trying to sell a forged copy of a most rare document, called “Oath of a Freeman.” Unlike the other documents he forged, which were handwritten, this was an attempt to forge a printed document. Hofmann was such a clever forger, new techniques to discover forgeries had to be developed for him. Among other things, the inks used by Hofmann were iron gall, but had a particular alligatoring pattern that would not have been detectable except under a microscope. I also remember that Hofmann apparently hung up his forgeries to dry, which caused the ink to flow certain ways with gravity. Had Hofmann not been so greedy, he might still be doing it.

Interesting…..I’ll have to check that out.

One of the more well-known forgeries in recent times was The Hitler Diaries, forged by Konrad Kujau, and by all accounts, were clumsy forgeries at best.

Didn’t stop Stern magazine from paying the equivalent of $3.7 million so they could publish it. There’s a rather amusing docu-drama about it starring Jonathan Pryce as well; it’s called Selling Hitler. I think it’s on YouTube.

301
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:04:48am

re: #300 Dr Lizardo

Interesting…..I’ll have to check that out.

One of the more well-known forgeries in recent times was The Hitler Diaries, forged by Konrad Kujau, and by all accounts, were clumsy forgeries at best.

Didn’t stop Stern magazine from paying the equivalent of $3.7 million so they could publish it. There’s a rather amusing docu-drama about it starring Jonathan Pryce as well; it’s called Selling Hitler. I think it’s on YouTube.

And dramatized in a German movie called Schtonk!

302
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:05:13am

re: #292 ObserverArt

You mean like how many Democrats didn’t back Bush and Cheney in Iraq?

Who is doing this polarization Dark?

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

303
Eventual Carrion  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:05:56am

re: #253 WhatEVs

Meet the militants:

[snip]

Jon Ritzheimer

He sells anti-Islam T-shirts through his apparel company…
…
Military records show Ritzheimer was in the Marine Corps Reserves from 2002 through 2014, serving two tours in Iraq and a motor transport driver.

[snip]
They suck government resources (e.g., wasn’t blue tarp guy, Finicum’s, sole income the $131k he got for foster kids - which he probably used as slave labor, poor kids) while complaining about government. Spare me.

We know what kind of problem children transport drivers can be.

304
Dr Lizardo  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:06:01am

re: #301 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And dramatized in a German movie called Schtonk!

I’ll have to check that out.

305
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:06:19am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

None of it was taken seriously by the Democratic party establishment, though.

306
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:08:48am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Your poor fairy is flapping so hard I’m afraid she’ll drop dead of exhaustion.

307
Alephnaught  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:09:01am

Well, it’s the second Sunday of Celtic Connections, and my second trip to the Danny Kyle Open Stage. If last Sunday is anything to go by, the standard’s even higher than last year.

If you want to hear it, it’s streaming live right now on Celtic Music Radio.

308
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:10:04am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Show me one prominent lefty (anyone on MSNBC, for example) who said any of those things. Sorry, but you have elected officials, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh (who you will never be able to equate to Ed Schultz or any of the other lefties, because Rush drives the party and Schultz, et al, hold no sway on our elected officials) whom elected democrats drive policy from actively saying and doing things against the country and the elected POTUS.

Give it a fucking rest.

309
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:10:08am

re: #306 Testy Toad T

Your poor fairy is flapping so hard I’m afraid she’ll drop dead of exhaustion.

she is still recovering from comparing the Bundyites to the Occupy movement…

310
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:10:30am

re: #305 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

None of it was taken seriously by the Democratic party establishment, though.

The big difference which is completely overlooked.

311
makeitstop  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:11:32am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Name one elected Democrat who said any of that in an official capacity. Gimme one.

And I’ll give you an even dozen on your side, which will include a couple of presidential candidates.

312
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:12:11am

re: #310 WhatEVs

The big difference which is completely overlooked.

Well, there’s also Code Pinkers hanging banners from highway overpasses looking for sympathetic honks versus a gaggle of felons trespassing on and commandeering federal property under power of AR-15.

But, you know, aside from that they’re pretty much the same thing!

313
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:13:04am

re: #303 Eventual Carrion

We know what kind of problem children transport drivers can be.

In Iraq that might mean having to help fight off a convoy attack. It might also mean being wounded because your truck went over an IED. Transport drivers who did that job in Iraq are combat veterans and should be treated as such.

314
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:13:08am

re: #311 makeitstop

And I’ll give you an even dozen on your side, which will include a couple of presidential candidates.

And every single Republican candidate saying that Obama is in bed with ISIS, is weak, is a scary Mooslem, etc., etc., etc.

315
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:14:30am

re: #309 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

she is still recovering from comparing the Bundyites to the Occupy movement…

I haven’t done that. Don’t conflate me with other people, please.

316
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:14:44am

It’s amazing the sort of mental gymnastics a person can achieve when the facts must be contorted to fit the pre-existing worldview.

Abjectly pathetic and outright pitiful, but amazing.

317
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:15:50am

re: #314 WhatEVs

That weak, scary Moslem.

318
makeitstop  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:16:22am

re: #314 WhatEVs

And every single Republican candidate saying that Obama is in bed with ISIS, is weak, is a scary Mooslem, etc., etc., etc.

Exactly. So many Republicans use those talking points, they may as well be part of the GOP platform at this point.

But some Iraq War protestor said Bush was a war criminal, so that’s exactly the same thing.

319
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:17:02am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Before or after agreeing to allow Bush and Cheney to invade Iraq? Isn’t your timeline a little out of whack?

320
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:17:05am

re: #314 WhatEVs

And every single Republican candidate saying that Obama is in bed with ISIS, is weak, is a scary Mooslem, etc., etc., etc.

I do not recall the Democrats voting 50+ times to repeal a bit of Bush legislation…

321
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:17:07am
322
Skip Intro  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:17:33am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Could you name for me one Democratic Pres candidate who bragged that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters?

Your party is a sewage dump, and all the MBF in the world is never going to change that.

323
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:17:59am

re: #317 Nyet

That weak, scary Moslem.

The far-right has to say a whole bunch of contradictory things because they can no longer openly use the n-word in public.

324
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:18:12am

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

I haven’t done that. Don’t conflate me with other people, please.

sorry, she’s a busy little fairy these days

325
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:18:23am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

The far-right has to say a whole bunch of contradictory things because they can no longer openly use the n-word in public.

And you will gladly vote for the far-right when the time comes.

326
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:19:23am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

GWB is a war criminal, it’s an objective fact. Torture is a war crime.

327
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:19:23am

Nyquil?

328
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:20:38am

Noriega?

329
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:20:47am

re: #322 Skip Intro

There’s nothing I can do about Donald Trump beyond what I’m already planning to do. I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.

330
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:21:12am

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

There’s nothing I can do about Donald Trump beyond what I’m already planning to do. I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.

Cruz is not saner than Trump.

331
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:21:24am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

As it turns out, that “leftist insanity” has truth to it. Look at Iraq now.

332
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:22:07am

re: #331 GlutenFreeJesus

As it turns out, that “leftist insanity” has truth to it. Look at Iraq now.

Don’t go there. I haven’t the time to follow.

333
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:22:16am

re: #319 ObserverArt

Before or after agreeing to allow Bush and Cheney to invade Iraq? Isn’t your timeline a little out of whack?

When you say “agreeing”, you actually mean “engaging in debate in Congress before voting to authorize the resolution providing the executive branch with a range of powers to exercise, as provided in the Constitution”.

More than anything else, the modern GOP fundamentally refuses to faithfully exercise the powers of the offices into which they were sworn. That is the most damning and dishonorable thing, and the one most plain and inarguable. They run the United States Congress as theater, as red meat to their base. I would dare a GOP supporter to tell me that the last ten ACA repeals have actually been good-faith attempts to change the laws of the nation they purport to govern.

334
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:22:24am

Mom Jeans! He’s so feminine! And gay!
But he’s also the leader of ISIS! And like Hitler!

335
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:22:39am

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

There’s nothing I can do about Donald Trump beyond what I’m already planning to do. I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.

There is almost nothing Trump is saying or doing that other Republicans are not in favor of, he is just more blatant about it.

336
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:24:00am

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

There’s nothing I can do about Donald Trump beyond what I’m already planning to do. I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.

There are no other, saner Republicans. All of the GOP candidates for president are crazy in one way or another, and, if given the opportunity, would put this country in a huge hole.

337
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:24:06am

Nifty.

338
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:24:29am

re: #274 WhatEVs

I hope someone runs with that image. It’ll be Yuuuuge.

339
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:24:46am

re: #335 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is almost nothing Trump is saying or doing that other Republicans are not in favor of, he is just more blatant about it.

If anything, some of his alleged policies are arguably more superficially “progressive” than those of, say, Cruz.

340
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:25:11am

re: #334 Nyet

Mom Jeans! He’s so feminine! And gay!
But he’s also the leader of ISIS! And like Hitler!

The problem came when the GOP tolerated or failed to distance itself from the TP attitude that anything that anything critical of Obama is a valid talking point, to matter how contrived, spurious, contradictory or utterly fact-free the claims were.

That led to an attention-seeking race to the bottom, and it is only going to get worse as Obama’s term draws to an end and the positive balance of his presidency becomes more clear to the clear-minded.

341
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:25:50am

re: #336 dholmes32

There are no other, saner Republicans. All of the GOP candidates for president are crazy in one way or another, and, if given the opportunity, would put this country in a huge hole.

I keep saying this, and it keeps being true, there are no more sane or centrist Republicans. Those people are now Democrats.

Once Republicans get past the label of right/left, dem/GOPer, they’ll realize that.

Except of course for people who think Obamacare is treason and fuck anyone who isn’t like me.

342
sagehen  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:26:04am

re: #334 Nyet

Mom Jeans! He’s so feminine! And gay!
But he’s also the leader of ISIS! And like Hitler!

Jade Helm! Gun-grabbers! Death panels! FEMA camps!

343
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:27:37am

He’ll sell us all out to Putin!
He should be more like Putin!

344
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:27:44am

re: #320 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I do not recall the Democrats voting 50+ times to repeal a bit of Bush legislation…

Surely that…but let’s keep this to the topic Dark chose to enter…that being Obama having problems getting any type of a coalition to properly administer the actions in the Middle East. Dark somehow seems to be forgetting that Bush got everything he wanted and botched it all. Yet, Obama can’t get any support from the “warrior party” and has done a pretty good job doing what he is really limited to do.

To me that isn’t magic balance fairy…instead of a little thumb action to add some weight, it’s literally sitting down on one side of the scale and declaring you got this.

345
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:27:57am

re: #342 sagehen

Jade Helm! Gun-grabbers! Death panels! FEMA camps!

Alex Jones has cornered the crazy both left and right. He said Bush was going to do all those things - and cornered the adoration of the conspiracy theorist left…now it’s Obama and he has the love of the conspiracy theorist right. What a business model.

346
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:28:54am

re: #345 WhatEVs

Alex Jones has cornered the crazy both left and right. He said Bush was going to do all those things - and cornered the adoration of the conspiracy theorist left…now it’s Obama and he has the love of the conspiracy theorist right. What a business model.

And the business model is based on listeners not knowing or caring that it is just that, a business model

347
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:29:37am

He’s a black supremacist who defends the New Black Panthers!
Also, he’s not really black!

348
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:30:09am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

The far-right has to say a whole bunch of contradictory things because they can no longer openly use the n-word in public.

I hope I have your implication wrong. Do you want to clear that up a bit?

349
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:31:39am

re: #346 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And the business model is based on listeners not knowing or caring that it is just that, a business model

I have to admit that there was a period when I first heard of Alex Jones and Prison Planet that I was thinking…Really? Hmmm. Then I applied logical thinking to it and thought, Nah. Fruit loops.

350
lawhawk  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:33:15am

re: #321 WhatEVs

351
Skip Intro  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:33:44am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

The far-right has to say a whole bunch of contradictory things because they can no longer openly use the n-word in public.

Trump could. I’m surprised he hasn’t.

A guy who can brag about getting away with a public shooting and gets cheers from the crowd can say anything. The only thing in question is when he’ll do it.

352
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:34:34am

I remember when Rush said, and I quote: “You can’t be for the troops and against the war.” Good times, good times…

353
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:35:49am
354
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:35:56am

re: #348 ObserverArt

I hope I have your implication wrong. Do you want to clear that up a bit?

Per usual, parties are living, breathing things that have some sort of weird inalienable right to existence and self-preservation. Party before policy. Policies and actions and conversations must warp and shift to preserve the health of the party. It’s only natural that the right wing of the party “has to” take all sorts of whacko positions and say all sorts of contradictory things in order to retain the support of those who just want to shout “N***** N***** N*****!!1”.

People actually view politics through this lens. It’s creepy and it fucking grosses me out, but that’s honestly how they see it.

355
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:37:47am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

Traitor? Truth. War Criminal? Truth.

356
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:38:09am

No hummingbirds were harmed…

Bird scan ON
Target Spotted
Gah, maybe next time
357
Targetpractice  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:38:13am

re: #345 WhatEVs

Alex Jones has cornered the crazy both left and right. He said Bush was going to do all those things - and cornered the adoration of the conspiracy theorist left…now it’s Obama and he has the love of the conspiracy theorist right. What a business model.

That’s another realm where the MBF bit breaks down. During both presidencies, Jones was a joke to all but the looniest of liberals. But whereas during the Bush years conservatives were in agreement on his being a crackpot, during the Obama years they’ve been found arguing that he “has a point” more often then not. He especially got a major boost during the whole Snowden affair.

358
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:38:37am

re: #350 lawhawk

Whatever it takes to bang the horse-race drum. They’ve got ad time to sell.

359
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:39:39am

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Ok. How about the policy of torture? Abu Ghraib, anyone?

360
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:39:55am

re: #356 Great White Snark

That is one good-looking cat.

361
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:40:49am

re: #359 GlutenFreeJesus

Ok. How about the policy of torture? Abu Ghraib, anyone?

Oh, what’s a little humiliation? They were just blowing of steam!!! (Another Rush blast from the past)

362
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:41:29am

re: #360 Billy Batts

That is one good-looking cat.

I was thinking the same.

363
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:42:02am

re: #352 Billy Batts

I remember when Rush said, and I quote: “You can’t be for the troops and against the war.” Good times, good times…

“Either you’re with us or you’re with the terraists.”

cnn - george w bush “either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists”

How fitting that convicted criminal Dennis Hastert was behind him during that propaganda.

364
PhillyPretzel  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:42:16am

re: #356 Great White Snark

She is a beautiful cat. She would like my neighborhood. Lots of birds and fellow cats.

365
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:43:05am

re: #348 ObserverArt

I hope I have your implication wrong. Do you want to clear that up a bit?

Sure: The far-right has a pathological hatred for Barack Obama it would prefer to express by using racist slurs. They can’t use most of those slurs in public so instead they spew a whole lot of contradictory insults. They aren’t interested in the facts, only in calling Obama names.

366
Dark_Falcon  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:44:27am

re: #359 GlutenFreeJesus

Ok. How about the policy of torture? Abu Ghraib, anyone?

That wasn’t sanctioned interrogation. That was asshole sadists who weren’t being properly supervised.

367
dholmes32  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:45:38am

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

That wasn’t sanctioned interrogation. That was asshole sadists who weren’t being properly supervised.

Guantanamo, then? Seriously, what does it take to get you to admit that we were torturing people, in violation of conventions we had signed on to?

368
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:45:44am

re: #357 Targetpractice

That’s another realm where the MBF bit breaks down….

I think the plainest example is still probably the Benghazigate Boogalo. Something like 50 Americans died in various consulate and embassy attacks during Bush 43’s presidency. Everyone thought this was sad. Everyone wanted Bush’s State Department to do better. Everyone thought that somebody probably needed to be Held Accountable and whatnot. Everyone also recognized that shit happens.

There was no Congressional theater, no three-years-and-counting demand for various impeachments, no accusations of false-flag foul play. Michael Bay didn’t make films about any of them.

369
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:46:35am

The right are always bad news.

Take the Polish right-wing govt. They have just prohibited this waste sorting ad because there’s no woman in the kitchen and one of the guys is gay in real life.

tv.wirtualnemedia.pl

Here’s the far-right Radio Maryja on the ban, saying the ad promotes “gender ideology”: radiomaryja.pl

370
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:47:02am

indeed.

371
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:47:19am

re: #367 dholmes32

Guantanamo, then? Seriously, what does it take to get you to admit that we were torturing people, in violation of conventions we had signed on to?

Just as soon as a Democrat does it.

372
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:47:48am

I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.
Read more at littlegreenfootballs.com

Oh, there’s plenty of crumbs left on that table. You remind me of an old friend of mine who married a batshit crazy holy-roller right-winger. He says the same thing. I’ll support the most sane republican left out there.

Meanwhile, there are a bunch of, you know, not so fucked up people running for office. They just aren’t willing to be Republicans. but ah… them crumbs are totally off the table.

373
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:47:53am

re: #368 Testy Toad T

I think the plainest example is still probably the Benghazigate Boogalo. Something like 50 Americans died in various consulate and embassy attacks during Bush 43’s presidency. Everyone thought this was sad. Everyone wanted Bush’s State Department to do better. Everyone thought that somebody probably needed to be Held Accountable and whatnot. Everyone also recognized that shit happens.

There was no Congressional theater, no three-years-and-counting demand for various impeachments, no accusations of false-flag foul play. Michael Bay didn’t make films about any of them.

Well, the Republicans only realized they needed to start asking questions after Obama became President. /

374
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:48:29am

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

That wasn’t sanctioned interrogation. That was asshole sadists who weren’t being properly supervised.

Keep telling yourself that. None of what went on in Abu Ghraib was any different than what the CIA was doing.

And what of those CIA “enhanced interrogation techniques”?

en.m.wikipedia.org

State-sanctioned torture.

375
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:49:20am
376
Nyet  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:49:39am

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

That wasn’t sanctioned interrogation. That was asshole sadists who weren’t being properly supervised.

Unlike all other sanctioned instances of torture, where asshole sadists were properly supervised.

377
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:51:38am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

You’d have to go to the fringes of the left to find that, Dark, so saying it was “The left as a whole” is complete bullshit.

378
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:51:39am

re: #228 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

379
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:52:29am
380
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:01am

re: #368 Testy Toad T

In 1983, 250 Marines were blown up in Lebanon and I don’t recall anything even remotely similar to the whole Benghazi freak out. Hell, as a matter of fact, Reagan cut and ran.

381
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:05am

Let the supervising of assholes commence! jeezuz.

382
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:06am
383
Alephnaught  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:39am

re: #307 Alephnaught

Blimey, the singer that’s on right now is rather good.

384
bratwurst  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:50am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that.

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Yes, Obama’s had it worse.

Half a downding for wanting to have it both ways.

I would also point out that nobody who called GWB a traitor or war criminal (or a foreigner) was ever in danger of being nominated to run for POTUS.

385
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:53:54am

The hard truth here in that presidential criticism has gone beyond all reason for a very long time. if you happened to be a person that got completely fed up with this crap during say the HW Bush admin (secret flight in SR-71? rofl) then got sick of it even more during the Clinton years, then saw what got aimed at GWB even before 9/11 let alone Iraq & oddly enough Afghanistan…

Well the tragic consequences of any or all those Presidents mistakes in their full terms wrapped into one big turd of a bundle provides little or no excuse at all for where people feel free to go in attacking a sitting President.

“Kennedy will answer to the pope”. Eyeroll.
“Whitewater”-Nothing there, shut up.
“This regime” FU it’s a duly elected president. Bush or Clinton and Obama.
“War Criminal”-Name me the last modern era president that was not said to be so if only by proxy? Until charges appear it’s an opinion not a fact.
“Traitor” from just upthread. At what point was Bush or any President working for an enemy nation? Never ever happened.

Not one of these criticisms helped anyone anywhere. They helped drag us to where we are. And that is why in no small part why the growth is in the Indy column and will continue to do so. Partisans are a shrinking minority. Shrieking illegitimate President won’t help.

Look where this got us. The common discourse needs to sharpen up fact wise policy wise and ease off the foam at the mouth stuff.

386
Timothy Watson  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:54:09am

re: #380 Billy Batts

In 1983, 250 Marines were blown up in Lebanon and I don’t recall anything even remotely similar to the whole Benghazi freak out. Hell, as a matter of fact, Reagan cut and ran.

And sold weapons to the murderers less than two year later.

387
Targetpractice  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:56:25am

re: #368 Testy Toad T

I think the plainest example is still probably the Benghazigate Boogalo. Something like 50 Americans died in various consulate and embassy attacks during Bush 43’s presidency. Everyone thought this was sad. Everyone wanted Bush’s State Department to do better. Everyone thought that somebody probably needed to be Held Accountable and whatnot. Everyone also recognized that shit happens.

There was no Congressional theater, no three-years-and-counting demand for various impeachments, no accusations of false-flag foul play. Michael Bay didn’t make films about any of them.

You want a better example, compare BENGHAZI!!!! to 9/11.

It took a year and a great deal of public pressure for the White House and Congressional Republicans to agree to allowing a commission to be convened to investigate the events behind 9/11. Benghazi? They went to work inside 3 months.

There was one commission for 9/11, which worked under strict rules, had a severely inadequate budget, and could not get any cooperation at all from the White House. Benghazi has had 7 committee investigations and counting, each with unrestricted budgets, and each operating with virtually little to no control from the party leadership.

When the 9/11 commission’s report was finally published, it was declared the “final word,” it’s conclusions considered definitive, and no further investigations were permitted. Meanwhile, every single report that has been produced on Benghazi has led to screams that “there’s still questions!” and yet another committee was formed.

There was roughly 2 years between 9/11 and the release of the commission’s final report. Benghazi was overly 3 years ago and there’s no end in sight.

388
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:56:55am

re: #348 ObserverArt

I hope I have your implication wrong. Do you want to clear that up a bit?

What he’s saying is that his side of the aisle, which he’ll support no matter what, has to come up with new ways of saying “N*****” without actually saying “N*****”.

And he supports them, and will continue to support them, even as they N*****ize the President of the United States, because that’s his team and team is more important than country.

389
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 9:59:49am

Dark, just wanted to say I appreciate your contributions.

I know it has to be tough to speak for the conservative side of things as one of the only LGF members to stand up and identify as a strong Republican backer.

It is easy to gang jump you since you are good at lighting up some debate. I hope the other members realize that you have to take a lot of flack because you don’t have a lot of backup/support. I hope you realize you get to field a lot of frustration with your party and that it is not all aimed at you personally as much as aimed at the Republican party in general and you are the catch-all for it…which isn’t fair.

I really do wish there were other conservatives that have your ability to hang with the LGF crowd. You are very strong that way. The party really doesn’t deserve you. I don’t think they care enough about you and just use your support.

Thanks.

390
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:00:57am

re: #382 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“Time to stock up on supplies! Quick! To the Safeway!

“Oh, shit.”

391
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:03:39am

re: #389 ObserverArt

On the contrary, I find that fact-agnostic intellectually-less-than-grounded broken-record counter-argument is worth about as much as no counter-argument at all.

Your mileage may vary, I guess.

392
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:03:45am

re: #376 Nyet

Unlike all other sanctioned instances of torture, where asshole sadists were properly supervised.

We farmed out most of the true torture by “turning people over” to our partners in Egypt, Turkey, etc, etc…
Got to keep deniability while still getting whatever intelligence was wrung out of the poor bastards. :(

393
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:05:00am

re: #367 dholmes32

Guantanamo, then? Seriously, what does it take to get you to admit that we were torturing people, in violation of conventions we had signed on to?

Yeah. John Yoo justified the policy. On paper and everything. Written policy allowing illegal torture. A war crime. Full. Fucking. Stop.

394
makeitstop  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:05:07am

re: #363 GlutenFreeJesus

“Either you’re with us or you’re with the terraists.”

[Embedded content]

How fitting that convicted criminal Dennis Hastert was behind him during that propaganda.

I was at that SOTU. As chilling as those words were, when we walked out of the Captiol and saw armed soldiers every 50 feet, helicopters swooping overhead every minute, and concrete barriers everywhere, I knew the dystopian future had arrived.

395
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:08:54am

“re: #387 Targetpractice

Fallacy debate has replaced policy debate. That’s no way run run an election let alone a nation.

396
Decatur Deb  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:09:06am

We’re Number One!!!

America’s lead poisoning problem isn’t just in Flint. It’s everywhere.

vox.com

397
ObserverArt  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:09:19am

re: #391 Testy Toad T

On the contrary, I find that fact-agnostic intellectually-less-than-grounded broken-record counter-argument is worth about as much as no counter-argument at all.

Your mileage may vary, I guess.

Well, look at it this way. No Dark…no fire in the debate.

My main point is Dark is able to take a lot of abuse. It seems the other conservatives that were around and maybe could add some real heft to the debates cut and run. To me that either says they aren’t as tough as they think they are, or they realize they have nothing to stand on.

Dark hangs. No matter what you think of his style, to me it says a lot that he stays.

And with that…I got some stuff to do…going into lurk mode.

398
Bass Reeves  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:09:20am

re: #385 Great White Snark

I would agree with everything you wrote except the war criminal part. The enhanced interrogation techniques have been designated as torture, the report on the CIA program released last year defined the techniques used as torture.

Just because the UN doesn’t have the will to refer** charges doesn’t make that administration not complicit in torture, and therefore war criminals.

**I admit now that I think of it, I have no idea what the right word is that is supposed to go here. Welp, there goes my argument!

399
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:14:05am

re: #393 WhatEVs

Where’s Yoo now?

400
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:15:45am

re: #399 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

Where’s Yoo now?

Last I heard he was a law professor at UC- Berkeley.

Think about THAT.

401
b_sharp  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:17:41am

re: #396 Decatur Deb

We’re Number One!!!

America’s lead poisoning problem isn’t just in Flint. It’s everywhere.

vox.com

All those socialist countries with little lead poisoning don’t know how freedomless they are.

402
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:17:59am

re: #400 WhatEVs

yeah… i have. jeebus. < should be a new metro-bus system in any administration. The jee bus will take you ANYWHERE!

403
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:21:08am

re: #398 Bass Reeves

Nice response, thanks. Funny thing, I was not even thinking of the UN, I was thinking the EU or our own justice dept. Frankly given their record of looking the other way at certain leaders for certain reasons over the years i’d take them about as seriously as I do Code Pink. That and invading Iraq when the Taliban/Al Qaeda alliance was the enemy worth focusing on

404
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:21:41am

More historical “wisdom” from Trump’s spokesperson… (old tweet)

405
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:21:50am

re: #387 Targetpractice

You want a better example, compare BENGHAZI!!!! to 9/11.

It took a year and a great deal of public pressure for the White House and Congressional Republicans to agree to allowing a commission to be convened to investigate the events behind 9/11. Benghazi? They went to work inside 3 months.

There was one commission for 9/11, which worked under strict rules, had a severely inadequate budget, and could not get any cooperation at all from the White House. Benghazi has had 7 committee investigations and counting, each with unrestricted budgets, and each operating with virtually little to no control from the party leadership.

When the 9/11 commission’s report was finally published, it was declared the “final word,” it’s conclusions considered definitive, and no further investigations were permitted. Meanwhile, every single report that has been produced on Benghazi has led to screams that “there’s still questions!” and yet another committee was formed.

There was roughly 2 years between 9/11 and the release of the commission’s final report. Benghazi was overly 3 years ago and there’s no end in sight.

I think the difference relates to the difference in how Liberals and Conservatives see Truth. When Liberals asked for an investigation into why 9/11 happened, Conservatives generally balked. This seems nonsensical - clearly understanding why the worst attack since Pearl Harbor happened, and how something like that could be prevented in the future is critically important. An investigation to reveal those things is a no-brainer.

That’s if you see investigations as a way of discovering the truth, wherein you reach your conclusion based on the investigation. You dig everywhere you can think of, and follow any leads that appear. But that’s not how the Right understands it. To them, you do an investigation to find evidence of what you already “KNOW” is the “TRUTH”.

In the case of Benghazi, they “KNOW” that Obama and Clinton somehow betrayed the country in some awful way that will turn all Americans against them. They MUST HAVE, so the investigation is about proving that. That’s why they keep investigating, because they haven’t found anything, which means they haven’t dug deep enough. Every question they asked has been answered, every theory disproved, every claim debunked, but that just means the REAL proof is buried DEEPER!

So, if you look at investigations from their perspective, they presumed that any investigation of 9/11 would just be a witch hunt to prove the Bush Administration’s complicity. It’s what they’d have done. That’s why they opposed it.

406
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:24:28am

re: #400 WhatEVs

Last I heard he was a law professor at UC- Berkeley.

Think about THAT.

Forcing a mind like John Yoo to live in a place like Berkeley may be an unconventional punishment, but perhaps it’s the best we’re ever going to get.

407
BeachDem  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:25:09am

re: #311 makeitstop

Name one elected Democrat who said any of that in an official capacity. Gimme one.

And I’ll give you an even dozen on your side, which will include a couple of presidential candidates.

I’ll give you 47 who wrote that charming letter to Iran; throw in the ones who set up the Bibi speech in Congress; and season with the “pundits” who have called Obama everything from a “dick” to a “pussy” and the MBF not only has no lift, but has tattered wings to boot.

408
bratwurst  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:25:13am

BREAD BAGS ALERT!

409
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:26:24am

re: #405 Blind Frog Belly White

I think the difference relates to the difference in how Liberals and Conservatives see Truth. When Liberals asked for an investigation into why 9/11 happened, Conservatives generally balked. This seems nonsensical - clearly understanding why the worst attack since Pearl Harbor happened, and how something like that could be prevented in the future is critically important. An investigation to reveal those things is a no-brainer.

That’s if you see investigations as a way of discovering the truth, wherein you reach your conclusion based on the investigation. You dig everywhere you can think of, and follow any leads that appear. But that’s not how the Right understands it. To them, you do an investigation to find evidence of what you already “KNOW” is the “TRUTH”.

In the case of Benghazi, they “KNOW” that Obama and Clinton somehow betrayed the country in some awful way that will turn all Americans against them. They MUST HAVE, so the investigation is about proving that. That’s why they keep investigating, because they haven’t found anything, which means they haven’t dug deep enough. Every question they asked has been answered, every theory disproved, every claim debunked, but that just means the REAL proof is buried DEEPER!

So, if you look at investigations from their perspective, they presumed that any investigation of 9/11 would just be a witch hunt to prove the Bush Administration’s complicity. It’s what they’d have done. That’s why they opposed it.

That was rather brilliant. Well done.

410
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:29:03am

re: #406 Testy Toad T

Forcing a mind like John Yoo to live in a place like Berkeley may be an unconventional punishment, but perhaps it’s the best we’re ever going to get.

Really gives pause about that whole “liberal colleges” thing. I mean…UC-Berkeley of all places.

Makes me ill that that Yoo fucker is shaping young legal minds.

411
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:29:55am

re: #71 Kragar

[Embedded content]

412
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:29:57am

re: #405 Blind Frog Belly White

so, what your saying may be… they haven’t properly supervised their assholes? Am i wrong?

413
stpaulbear  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:30:19am

re: #405 Blind Frog Belly White

In the case of Benghazi, they “KNOW” that Obama and Clinton somehow betrayed the country in some awful way that will turn all Americans against them. They MUST HAVE, so the investigation is about proving that. That’s why they keep investigating, because they haven’t found anything, which means they haven’t dug deep enough. Every question they asked has been answered, every theory disproved, every claim debunked, but that just means the REAL proof is buried DEEPER!

This also explains why House Republicans made total asses of themselves by impeaching Bill Clinton.

PS: Agree with WhatEVs. This was a great observation.

414
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:30:50am

re: #405 Blind Frog Belly White

I think the difference relates to the difference in how Liberals and Conservatives see Truth. When Liberals asked for an investigation into why 9/11 happened, Conservatives generally balked. This seems nonsensical - clearly understanding why the worst attack since Pearl Harbor happened, and how something like that could be prevented in the future is critically important. An investigation to reveal those things is a no-brainer.

That’s if you see investigations as a way of discovering the truth, wherein you reach your conclusion based on the investigation. You dig everywhere you can think of, and follow any leads that appear. But that’s not how the Right understands it. To them, you do an investigation to find evidence of what you already “KNOW” is the “TRUTH”.

In the case of Benghazi, they “KNOW” that Obama and Clinton somehow betrayed the country in some awful way that will turn all Americans against them. They MUST HAVE, so the investigation is about proving that. That’s why they keep investigating, because they haven’t found anything, which means they haven’t dug deep enough. Every question they asked has been answered, every theory disproved, every claim debunked, but that just means the REAL proof is buried DEEPER!

So, if you look at investigations from their perspective, they presumed that any investigation of 9/11 would just be a witch hunt to prove the Bush Administration’s complicity. It’s what they’d have done. That’s why they opposed it.

Simpler way of looking at is that it is simply cynical politics. It is a club to beat Hillary with, they already know that there is nothing to their allegations. The only reason for the current Investigation is to create more smoke. Unfortunately many really do assume that where there is smoke there must also be a fire.

415
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:31:17am

re: #412 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

so, what your saying may be… they haven’t properly supervised their assholes? Am i wrong?

More like they’re all assholes.

416
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:31:37am

re: #409 WhatEVs

That was rather brilliant. Well done.

Aw, shucks!

417
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:33:00am

re: #415 WhatEVs

it’s like we’re surrounded by them.

418
goddamnedfrank  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:33:16am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

The far-right has to say a whole bunch of contradictory things because they can no longer openly use the n-word in public.

They really don’t have to say anything.

419
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:34:23am

re: #414 ausador

Simpler way of looking at is that it is simply cynical politics. It is a club to beat Hillary with, they already know that there is nothing to their allegations. The only reason for the current Investigation is to create more smoke. Unfortunately many really do assume that where there is smoke there must also be a fire.

At the level of those in Congress, I’m sure there’s a lot of cynicism behind it, but really, it’s hard to otherwise explain the insane fervor with which the Rank And Vile Republicans approach this.

420
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:36:25am

re: #419 Blind Frog Belly White

I actually think that both you and ausador are correct. But I think you’re more corrector, IMHO. :-)

421
Alephnaught  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:36:42am

re: #307 Alephnaught

Well, it’s the second Sunday of Celtic Connections, and my second trip to the Danny Kyle Open Stage. If last Sunday is anything to go by, the standard’s even higher than last year.

If you want to hear it, it’s streaming live right now on Celtic Music Radio.

Really good act on now, featuring the support act from last night’s John Grant concert as a guest.

422
stpaulbear  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:37:12am

re: #419 Blind Frog Belly White

Upding for ‘Rank and Vile’.

423
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:38:40am

re: #104 jaunte

[Embedded content]

424
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:39:35am

re: #418 goddamnedfrank

But they want to, no, they have to. If they didn’t that would be just to PC. Blergh.

425
goddamnedfrank  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:40:43am

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

There’s nothing I can do about Donald Trump beyond what I’m already planning to do. I’ll contribute to other, saner, Republicans, and I will not vote for Trump. Beyond that, there’s hardly anything else I can do.

FYI This is you planning to condone Trump, condone as in to ignore. Worse actually, in the sense that you plan to work behind to scenes to increase Trump’s coattails, actively offsetting what otherwise should be the natural shunning effect incurred by the GOP for electing someone so rabidly and overtly racist as their national standard bearer.

426
Schroedinger's Dog  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:41:23am

The observation about finding facts to fit your conclusions rather than finding conclusions to fit the facts is central to the entire conservative worldview. It explains their love of creationism as well and their hatred of the scientific method, which focuses on evidence leading to theories which can then be supported or disproved by further observation and evidence. That is completely contrary to the conservative zeitgeist.

427
Schroedinger's Dog  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:44:20am

re: #425 goddamnedfrank

FYI This is you planning to condone Trump, condone as in to ignore. Worse actually, in the sense that you plan to work behind to scenes to increase Trump’s coattails, actively offsetting what otherwise should be the natural shunning effect incurred by the GOP for electing someone so rabidly and overtly racist as their national standard bearer.

I agree. Silence or enablement by giving Trump a Congress that will provide little or no adult supervision is essentially giving him your support.

428
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:47:38am

re: #186 jaunte

[Embedded content]

429
Schroedinger's Dog  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:47:38am

re: #426 Schroedinger’s Dog

The observation about finding facts to fit your conclusions rather than finding conclusions to fit the facts is central to the entire conservative worldview. It explains their love of creationism as well and their hatred of the scientific method, which focuses on evidence leading to theories which can then be supported or disproved by further observation and evidence. That is completely contrary to the conservative zeitgeist.

Let the jury consider their verdict,’ the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
‘No, no!’ said the Queen. ‘Sentence first — verdict afterwards.’

430
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:49:57am

The JEEbus… we supervise our assholes!

431
goddamnedfrank  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:50:14am

Can’t make this shit up.

432
Billy Batts  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:51:18am

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

Can’t make this shit up.

[Embedded content]

See #277-279.

433
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 10:58:10am

I agree with GDF…there’s more going on there.

434
unproven innocence  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:00:10am

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

Can’t make this shit up.

[Embedded content]

Related: Virginia Tech Professor Marc Edwards Spent $147,000 to Help Uncover the Flint Water Scandal

The lead-contaminated water crisis in Flint, Michigan might have stayed hidden for much longer if it wasn’t for the massive volunteer effort by a university research team and the civil engineering professor who organized them and personally funded the project.

Also:

Edwards is no stranger to lead contamination issues. He previously investigated dangerous lead levels in the water supply in Washington, D.C., and his research there led to a Washington Post report and a 2010 congressional investigation that savagely criticized the CDC’s handling of that case.

[edit for 2nd excerpt]

435
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:05:06am

So how big do you guys think the risk of Democrats or anyone else staying home is this time around? I would think minuscule. Maybe I’m crazy but I associate actually voting and the small civil effort that goes with it as a measure of sincerity and motivation. Fair measure?

436
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:08:41am
437
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:10:09am

re: #365 Dark_Falcon

Sure: The far-right has a pathological hatred for Barack Obama it would prefer to express by using racist slurs. They can’t use most of those slurs in public so instead they spew a whole lot of contradictory insults. They aren’t interested in the facts, only in calling Obama names.

That sounds like a lot of the Republican Party.

438
bratwurst  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:13:49am

re: #435 Great White Snark

So how big do you guys think the risk of Democrats or anyone else staying home is this time around? I would think minuscule. Maybe I’m crazy but I associate actually voting and the small civil effort that goes with it as a measure of sincerity and motivation. Fair measure?

I think there is a good chance the awfulness of the eventual GOP nominee will drive turnout on the other side…but I am genuinely concerned the Bernie fans are going to be throwing a collective tantrum about two months from now. I hope it will have subsided by November.

439
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:16:11am

re: #435 Great White Snark

So how big do you guys think the risk of Democrats or anyone else staying home is this time around? I would think minuscule. Maybe I’m crazy but I associate actually voting and the small civil effort that goes with it as a measure of sincerity and motivation. Fair measure?

Too early for me to venture a guess, the rest of the nomination process and then the general campaigns will probably have a sizable effect.

440
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:18:50am

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

Can’t make this shit up.

Not only gross and evil, but moronic from a political standpoint.

JEB, YOUR PRIMARY VOTERS ARE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT. ANTI-EVERYTHING. THEY WANT TO BURN IT DOWN. DON’T PRAISE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, NEVER MIND A BAD ONE.

Honestly, who the fuck is advising him politically? They are awful at it.

441
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:19:18am

Studies still in infancy but interesting if not conclusive results so far…

442
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:20:58am
443
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:22:26am

I think Jeb! is the worst ostensibly-credible national career politician (in the sense of somebody who performs politics) I can remember.

It’s fair and understandable that Carson or Cain or Fiorina are bad at this. What’s Jeb!’s excuse?

444
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:23:03am
445
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:23:48am

re: #443 Testy Toad T

I think Jeb! is the worst ostensibly-credible national career politician (in the sense of somebody who performs politics) I can remember.

It’s fair and understandable that Carson or Cain or Fiorina are bad at this. What’s Jeb!’s excuse?

He is not, in point of fact, the smarter brother.

446
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:26:26am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

FYI: Code Pink represented Code Pink, not “all Leftists” or a even a significant plurality of “The Left.”

Medea Benjamin later joined the Tea Party and heckled Obama. He made fun of her and she hasn’t been active lately.

447
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:26:36am

re: #419 Blind Frog Belly White

At the level of those in Congress, I’m sure there’s a lot of cynicism behind it, but really, it’s hard to otherwise explain the insane fervor with which the Rank And Vile Republicans approach this.

“Rank and Vile Republicans” awesome!

448
Kafitrar  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:26:59am

re: #405 Blind Frog Belly White
It’s not surprising. That’s the way conservatives do science (e.g. evolutionary biology).

449
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:28:07am

re: #444 WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

450
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:29:39am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

The left as a whole did much worse than that. They called GWB a traitor, a war criminal, and parts of the left floated repeated scenarios of how Bush intended to make himself into a tyrant.

Yes, Obama’s had it worse, but don’t pretend that there wasn’t a lot of leftist insanity aimed at George W. Bush.

I’m glad my downding put this post under wraps. “The left” served in the war that GWB led us into under false pretenses. There is nothing you can do to deny that the pretenses were false, either. Therefore, traitor, war criminal are legitimate labels for the bum.

451
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:30:02am

re: #443 Testy Toad T

“Hmm, Trump pantsed me on stage by calling me weak and low-energy and basically doing everything he could to insult my manhood. OOH I KNOW JUST THE THING! I’ll run an ad where my mother says I’d be a good president.”

Your shit, Jeb!, get it together.

452
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:30:19am

re: #444 WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

453
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:31:16am

re: #393 WhatEVs

The attack on Iraq under GWB’s watch was by definition a war crime.

Any attack on a sovereign nation without the sanction of the UN Security Council is illegal. The Bush 43 White House tried to get one and failed. They couldn’t prove their case that Iraq had attacked the US, which is the only circumstance that would have allowed the US to defend itself.

However one of the admitted reasons for the attack on Iraq was to destroy international law and replace it with Pax Americana. A Pax Americana whose motto was, “You may hate as long as you also fear.”

So the Bush 43 White House felt no qualms at all about attacking Iraq.

454
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:31:27am

I still can’t believe the guys whining about not having their tax return so they can go fight against the government…

455
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:33:01am

re: #454 Eclectic Cyborg

I still can’t believe the guys whining about not having their tax return so they can go fight against the government…

Not just tax returns. I saw, a few weeks ago, someone was waiting for their gov check.

Like blue tarpman not expecting that his foster kids, his sole source of $131k income, wouldn’t be taken away.

The stupid…it burns.

456
Great White Snark  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:33:28am

re: #454 Eclectic Cyborg

I still can’t believe the guys whining about not having their tax return so they can go fight against the government…

LOL wut?

457
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:33:43am

re: #404 ausador

A classic case of mythology mistaken for history.

458
Kragar  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:34:32am
459
ausador  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:35:00am
460
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:35:34am

Please send good thoughts my way fellow Lizards. My feline overlord Max is currently MIA. He’s an outdoor cat so it’s not uncommon for him to be gone for hours at a time but he was hobbling a bit last night. I’ve checked around my house and most of my property and he is not around.

He’s pretty young (not even a year yet) and resilient so I’m hoping he’s ok.

461
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:36:19am

re: #458 Kragar

Yes, the reason we got hit on September 11 is because of the draw-down of the First Armored.

462
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:39:55am

re: #453 Romantic Heretic

Well, I’m sympathetic to the left because we face a common adversary, but this makes me glad I’m not part of the left. You don’t need permission from the UN to go to war. If the case for war had been legitimate, that Iraq was trying to build weapons to either use themselves or give to another agent to attack us, it would have been a legitimate act. However, it was not true at the time, and it was blatantly not true at the time. This whole “Pax Americana” concept is a far left fantasy. That piece you linked to was an edited version of an incoherent opinion piece (not a work based on fact so you can’t use it as a premise to support an argument).

463
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:41:41am

re: #458 Kragar

If he makes our military so big and strong, they won’t have to mess with us, they can just watch us go broke.

464
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:42:29am

re: #440 Testy Toad T

Which Is why I call today’s Right, “Jacobin revolutionaries who have hijacked the label conservative.”

They don’t want to conserve anything. They just want to see the world burn.

465
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:43:08am
466
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:43:40am

re: #464 Romantic Heretic

No such thing as a radical conservative. Besides, how can you call yourself a conservative if the last thing you want to do is actually conserve something?

467
Kragar  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:44:29am

On the one side, who didn’t say stupid shit when they were 18?

On the other, fuck Ted Cruz.

468
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:44:51am

re: #465 The Vicious Babushka

I believe Jesus already returned. And tiptoed back to Heaven so he wouldn’t have to deal with this shit.

469
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:45:48am

re: #467 Kragar

I have a plan for world domination, but I have to admit falling behind schedule.

470
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:45:54am

WHAT CAN I SAY BUT EVERYBODY LOVES ME!!!1!!!!!

471
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:46:43am

re: #462 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Well, I’m sympathetic to the left because we face a common adversary, but this makes me glad I’m not part of the left. You don’t need permission from the UN to go to war. If the case for war had been legitimate, that Iraq was trying to build weapons to either use themselves or give to another agent to attack us, it would have been a legitimate act. However, it was not true at the time, and it was blatantly not true at the time. This whole “Pax Americana” concept is a far left fantasy. That piece you linked to was an edited version of an incoherent opinion piece (not a work based on fact so you can’t use it as a premise to support an argument).

YMMV, but I don’t think of it as “permission”, really. More accurately it could be viewed as ass-cover if it turns out you fucked up.

Had we gone into Iraq after the actual evidence we presented to the UN, and then actually found half-built nukes, there would not have been very much grumping. Bush and co. would have stuck their necks on the line because they were doing something they thought was right, and they would have been vindicated.

Similarly, had we presented a much stronger and ultimately convincing case to the UN, gotten the go-ahead, and then found nothing, there would be less grumping. Everyone was fooled. A horrible and costly mistake, but a shared one. We followed our best practices, but sometimes those aren’t good enough.

What sticks in one’s craw is when Bush and company present a weak case to the UN, and then that case’s weakness is vindicated by a complete lack of what they alleged was going on, and yet there is no consequence whatsoever.

People will make stupid, irrational, costly, dangerous decisions if they do not face any kind of consequences for erring.

472
BeachDem  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:47:01am

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

Can’t make this shit up.

[Embedded content]

The conservative logic on this is that Flint was asking to get raped by Republicans because Democrats had dressed it so slutty.

The problem is that the governor’s office roofied Flint. We know that by the emails, which show, at best, that Snyder’s office wanted to close its eyes and pretend the poisoning of a 100,000 people wasn’t happening. At worst, it just didn’t care. And, frankly, it doesn’t matter what party was involved. Someone should be arrested.

rudepundit.blogspot.com

473
Timothy Watson  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:47:33am

re: #469 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I have a plan for world domination, but I have to admit falling behind schedule.

Pinky keeps screwing mine up.

474
Patricia Kayden  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:48:47am

re: #388 Blind Frog Belly White

What he’s saying is that his side of the aisle, which he’ll support no matter what, has to come up with new ways of saying “N*****” without actually saying “N*****”.

And he supports them, and will continue to support them, even as they N*****ize the President of the United States, because that’s his team and team is more important than country.

Sadly what you said about DF applies to all Republicans. Their Party has been openly hostile towards women’s reproductive rights, gay rights, voting rights, Muslims, immigrants, refugees, etc. Their leading candidate for President has publicly retweeted a White Supremacist talking points and sanctioned violence at his rallies.
I’m not sure how you support a Party which has become so obnoxious knowing the agenda it will pursue hurts actual Americans and may have disastrous consequences on the world if a Republical President pushes another unnecessary war like Iraq.

475
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:49:30am

re: #458 Kragar

Christ! It’s already bigger than the next ten nations combined. Is Trump planning on taking on The Empire from Star Wars™?

476
Kragar  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:50:15am
477
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:51:43am

re: #475 Romantic Heretic

Christ it’s already bigger than the next ten nation’s combined. Is Trump planning on taking on The Empire from Star WarsTM?

Trump is the Empire.

478
Testy Toad T  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:51:49am

oh flying spaghetti monster are you fucking kidding me

Just stop, Jeb!. You’re embarrassing.

479
Skip Intro  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:52:19am

The Oregon freak show just got freakier.

Gov. Chris Christie’s Older Brother, Sumo Challenge

480
Kragar  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:52:22am
481
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:53:35am

re: #475 Romantic Heretic

Christ it’s already bigger than the next ten nation’s combined. Is Trump planning on taking on The Empire from Star WarsTM?

No I think he wants us to BECOME The Empire.

482
Patricia Kayden  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:54:17am

re: #478 Testy Toad T

oh flying spaghetti monster are you fucking kidding me

[Embedded content]

Just stop, Jeb. You’re embarrassing.

I bet Barb would beat Donald’s backside. It’s not like Jeb could.

483
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:54:18am

re: #462 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

No, you don’t need permission from the UN to go to war. But without it that war is illegal. That’s how the law works.

And since you had to dig in a thumb about the ‘left’ I’ll do one for the ‘right’.

Isn’t it odd how those people where one of their central political stances is ‘Law and Order’ have trouble with the concept of ‘The Law’?

484
WhatEVs  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:54:21am

re: #479 Skip Intro

Good. God.

485
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:56:36am

re: #471 Testy Toad T

The case the Bush administration made was BS from the start. The most important piece of evidence for that statement was that there were no deep penetration raids to seize suspected WMD sites when the war started. The mission immediately went to regime change, and then “I sure hope we find some bad shit around here” or something like that. In addition, the administration got what they wanted from the UN, then wouldn’t take yes for an answer from Iraq.
Having said that, if I were a senator voting for the authorization of force, and having those opinions, I would have voted in favor. The vote was not an order for the President to use force but the consequences for a rejection would have been extensive, and unfortunately I don’t have the time to get into that. Many of the people who voted for the use didn’t have the courage to vote against it, and just say they made a mistake as a copout. The responsibility for giving the orders to go to war lies with GWB. He had no shortage of incompetent, even evil advisors, but he couldn’t tell good advice from bad advice. I happen to think that is the strongest argument against a Donald Trump presidency as well.

486
Tigger2  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:57:11am

re: #480 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I’ll probably beat the Koch bros to the grave but if we end up in the same place in years to come I’m going to kick their balls up between their ears.

487
Romantic Heretic  Jan 24, 2016 • 11:57:14am

re: #466 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

For the same reason Marxists and Fascists go on all the time about ‘freedom’. To cover up their true goals and to give themselves an excuse to be utter dicks to other human beings.

488
goddamnedfrank  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:02:21pm
489
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:04:11pm

re: #483 Romantic Heretic

No, you don’t need permission from the UN to go to war. But without it that war is illegal. That’s how the law works<,/blockquote>

Either you need permission or you don’t. Until you show me where in international law you need consent from the UN, I’ll stand with my original point.

And since you had to dig in a thumb about the ‘left’ I’ll do one for the ‘right’.

Isn’t it odd how those people where one of their central political stances is ‘Law and Order’ have trouble with the concept of ‘The Law’?

“Law” is just for show. They really want their Order. They LOOOOVE their Order. If they get their way, they’ll write their own law.

490
Barefoot Grin  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:04:36pm

re: #479 Skip Intro

The Oregon freak show just got freakier.

[Embedded content]

Video

Jimmy had Billy. Of course, Chris is no Jimmy.

491
Barefoot Grin  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:05:44pm

re: #490 Barefoot Grin

Jimmy had Billy. Of course, Chris is no Jimmy.

“Go to war for momma’s love….” That explains a lot.

492
Kragar  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:06:47pm
493
jaunte  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:09:12pm
494
Decatur Deb  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:13:42pm

re: #479 Skip Intro

The Oregon freak show just got freakier.

[Embedded content]

Video

Spent a lot of time checking that scene. The signage has been screwed with a bit, but it is a very good match for prior photos. Can’t say if some video wonk couldn’t have made a montage, but I’m buying it for now. Just fix these fools in place—they’ll finish off themselves and their movement.

Note: Except Christie’s brother is named “Todd” and he’s the younger brother, so probably a weird fake.

495
Decatur Deb  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:17:11pm

re: #488 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

ZeDcgX/+n1KKpqG/JT3PMv2Vo/txmdJQ4oFtTZ1xCYumEbF+655EAn8e59P+uE0z

496
makeitstop  Jan 24, 2016 • 12:41:22pm

re: #462 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Well, I’m sympathetic to the left because we face a common adversary, but this makes me glad I’m not part of the left. You don’t need permission from the UN to go to war. If the case for war had been legitimate, that Iraq was trying to build weapons to either use themselves or give to another agent to attack us, it would have been a legitimate act. However, it was not true at the time, and it was blatantly not true at the time. This whole “Pax Americana” concept is a far left fantasy. That piece you linked to was an edited version of an incoherent opinion piece (not a work based on fact so you can’t use it as a premise to support an argument).

One acronym for you: PNAC.

Pax Americana was their game plan, in toto.

497
Bass Reeves  Jan 24, 2016 • 3:07:33pm

re: #485 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

The case the Bush administration made was BS from the start. The most important piece of evidence for that statement was that there were no deep penetration raids to seize suspected WMD sites when the war started.

I disagree (late I know) with this statement, and therefore most of what follows it. But gently. The most important piece of evidence was Rafid Al’ Janabi, and the British and Germans saying to not trust anything he said as fact until validated, which was not done. I don’t think a Senator voting up or down based on the information is to blame. I’m not even sure a Senator has the pull or knowledge to question the source. Your President says ‘this info is good’ and you trust he’s not lying to your face to get a war he’s been looking for. It’s not a question so much of courage as to making a decision based off of faulty intel. For Congress, that source of intel was…the administration.


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