Not All Conservatives Pretend to Disagree With Trump’s Abortion Statements

Where the “pro-life” movement really leads
Politics • Views: 53,118
Far right pastor Kevin Swanson

When Donald Trump made his now-infamous statement that legal abortion needs to be banned and women who have abortions should be punished, conservative “pro-life” groups and pundits were quick to deny this was their actual position.

The talking point they all agreed upon: yes, sure, they do want to completely ban abortion, but women wouldn’t face any punishment. Only doctors would be prosecuted.

Of course, this makes no logical sense; it’s basically a deceptive smokescreen to hide the real consequences of their anti-choice position from women. After all, if abortion is legally judged to be the same as murder, then how can you say the murderer shouldn’t be punished?

And let’s not pretend women aren’t already being punished by the political actions of the anti-choice movement; they’re being penalized by having clinics closed, “pro-life” picketers who scream at them, and odious, expensive, time-wasting restrictions placed on the process by Republicans across the country.

As I tweeted a few days ago:

What really upset groups like March For Life is that Donald Trump, with his lack of political experience, took their position to its logical conclusion and said outright what they usually try to obfuscate.

But not all of the “pro-lifers” are dishonest enough to keep up the pretense (or maybe not smart enough, which amounts to the same thing, I guess). Right Wing Watch highlights two perfect examples today.

First, far right pastor Kevin Swanson (who recently hosted an event that featured an appearance by presidential candidate Ted Cruz, at which Swanson called for gays to be executed), who says abortion “ought to be a criminal action.”

SoundCloud

“The answer to this,” he said, “is the lex talionis does bring out that if a hazardous condition is created such that a child would be likely to die, whether in the womb or outside of the womb, there ought to be some level of prosecution going on. In that case, it may be just a fine or a prison sentence of some sort. But the principle of the matter is that it’s a criminal action to kill a child, to murder a child, it ought to be a criminal action. And, now, there ought to be, I believe, some leeway as to what sort of prosecution, what sort of sentence might be used in that case.”

World Net Daily columnist Gina Loudon gets even more honest than Swanson in her defense of Donald Trump’s comments.

Abortion rights opponents who criticize Trump, Loudon argued, have decided to “jump on the gender identity ‘women are always victims’ bandwagon” rather than argue that women should be held accountable through prosecutions, making Trump “even more pro-life than the [sic] some of the pro-life groups out there.”

Donald Trump has no high-paid consultants around him telling him what he can and can’t say, even on the liberal’s favorite conservative-killing topic of abortion. They talk all about the woman’s right to choose as if women are so frail and helpless they shouldn’t bear any of the personal responsibility conservatives talk about in other political realms.

Trump knew this: If a person hires a contractor to kill someone, under the law, both the person hiring the contracted killer and the killer are held accountable. In his non-political mind, why would he think any differently?

Conservatives herald “the rule of law” when discussing illegal immigration, but why do the rules suddenly change when we are talking about the killing of an unborn child?

Last but far from least, as we noted in 2014, National Review columnist Kevin D. Williamson takes what might be the most extreme position of all; he calls for women who have abortions to be hanged, along with their doctors.

Kudos to these conservatives for having the guts not to try to hide where their so-called “pro-life” position leads: to criminal penalties — even execution! — for desperate women. This can’t be emphasized enough, because this is what the “pro-life” movement really stands for.

Jump to bottom

145 comments
1
Kragar  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:00:16pm

Worth repeating

2
The Ghost of the Spaghetti Weevil  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:01:45pm
3
jaunte  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:03:10pm

Criminalize half the population and you control half the population.

4
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:06:02pm

At first I thought the Mic in the article photo was a funny shaped gun…

5
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:06:56pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

At first I thought the Mic in the article photo was a funny shaped gun…

Or a crossbow…

6
Testy Toad T  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:08:00pm

I think a substantial fraction of pro-lifers think there just wouldn’t be any abortions if they were banned, because puppy dogs and Jesus and rainbows and unicorns.

“We would magically accomplish the unaccomplishable and everything would work perfectly” is not exactly a fringe mindset anywhere in the electorate.

7
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:09:24pm
that if a hazardous condition is created such that a child would be likely to die, whether in the womb or outside of the womb, there ought to be some level of prosecution going on

Which leads to: all fertile (or assumed fertile) women can be locked up (pending investigation) for smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer, or having a miscarriage (or period, a day late or whatever).

8
Kragar  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:10:38pm

re: #6 Testy Toad T

9
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:11:34pm

Gun bans are won’t work but abortion bans will stop ALL THEM SLUTS FROM KILLING BABIES!!.

Stupid fucked up logic.

10
Testy Toad T  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:11:55pm

re: #6 Testy Toad T

[Because we only really think about white babbies, and the only people who break the law are the blahs]

11
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:12:56pm

I wish some Liberal filmmaker would make a dystopian movie about a place where these people got their way on all this stuff.

Would make a great sci-fi/horror flick.

12
Kragar  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:15:22pm
13
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:15:23pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

I wish some Liberal filmmaker would make a dystopian movie about a place where these people got their way on all this stuff.

Would make a great sci-fi/horror flick.

With the biggest ‘trigger warning’ ever filmed.

14
Joe Bacon  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:17:42pm

re: #13 wrenchwench

With the biggest ‘trigger warning’ ever filmed.

View Jesus Camp! That scared the crap out of me!

15
Shiplord Kirel  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:19:19pm

There is a team of former security guards in Lubbock who are in no doubt who the criminals really are. I posted this in 2013. The clinic is now shut down, per Texas law.

Lubbock has one abortion provider and they perform these services just one day a week. The security guards arrive early, with shotguns in plain sight, followed shortly by the staff and a regular mob of loafers who stand across the street waving signs and screaming abuse at anyone within earshot, including the terrified teenagers who make up the majority of the clients.

I’ve mentioned before that I know one of those security guards. The clinic just closed and I just talked to him. He said the protesters were more aggressive than usual today, despite the 105 degree heat. One of the regular agitators, a fundy preacher who looks remarkably like the young Richard Nixon, ran halfway into the street where he started doing some sort of dance and making weird faces, like a deranged organ grinder’s monkey. Others challenged the guards to come over and fight. There were the usual curses, imprecations, and predictions of anal rape by demons once the “baby killers” arrive in hell. Some of them taunt staff, patients, and guards alike with the names of doctors assassinated by anti-abortion terrorists. The place is arranged to keep patients as far from the mob as possible, and out of sight, but they can still hear the demented cursing and chanting from the devoted Christians across the street.

This kind of insane theater plays out every day at hundreds of clinics around the country, with almost no attention from the media.

16
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:24:12pm

Edited to add:

17
Rocky-in-Connecticut  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:26:54pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

I wish some Liberal filmmaker would make a dystopian movie about a place where these people got their way on all this stuff.

Would make a great sci-fi/horror flick.

Google “Handmaid’s Tale”

18
Scout  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:27:57pm

In the previous thread, user Lawhawk wrote the following:

Alaska, where Sanders won with a grand total of 440 votes. Really. Seriously.

I don’t know how Alaska’s caucus works, but according to the website of the Alaska Democratic Party, more than 10,500 people “attended.”
I’m frankly quite puzzled where the 440 votes figure comes from. Maybe only a few participants are allowed to actually vote? I wish I knew more about caucuses, but it seems like each state has its own system. I guess this is one more reason they should all just be simple primaries, with delegates doled out based on voting percentages.

19
Khal Wimpo (not-so-Super Tuesday's Child)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:29:37pm

One of the things that needs to be brought up as the idea of capital punishment for women who have abortions becomes mainstreamed - in much the same way as all the previously “unthinkable” ideas have been throughout this campaign …

…is that there is famously “No statute of limitations on murder.”

That means if you have ever gotten an abortion: to the gallows.

If you have ever paid for, driven anyone, or in any way assisted someone before, during or after an abortion: accessory to murder, aka “aiding and abetting” - which carries the same sentence as murder. To the gallows!

20
Patricia Kayden  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:29:50pm

re: #15 Shiplord Kirel

When does the pro-choice side become as passionate about protecting women’s access to abortions as the forced birther side has been since Roe v. Wade? Forced birthers are getting their way in too many states. It’s as if we are inching towards the America described by Margaret Atwood in The Handmaid’s Tale.

21
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:32:43pm

This is my not amused face:

22
Khal Wimpo (not-so-Super Tuesday's Child)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:33:17pm

A follow-up: a quick glance at the stats on numberofabortions.com (security note: visit only via Incognito window, unless you really like spyware) shows that the right-wing fundies claim 58 million abortions since Roe v. Wade.

That’s 58 million executions that will then take place if these guys get Cruz elected, a GOP senate and house, and a GOP Supreme Court.

Yes, it’s a practical impossibility. But at some point, do we start taking these people at their word for what they’d like to do to all of the rest of us if they could?

23
bratwurst  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:33:46pm

I have fucking had it with these people.

24
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:34:35pm

re: #17 Rocky-in-Connecticut

Google “Handmaid’s Tale”

Because there was free pizza at work last Thursday, I ate Thursday’s sandwich on Friday.

It was A Handmade Stale.
////

This popped into my head, and I thought it only right to spread the misery around.

25
Amory Blaine  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:34:51pm

I know who runs Bartertown.

6 Talk Radio Hosts, on a Mission to Stop Trump in Wisconsin

Mr. Sykes, along with a handful of other local talk radio hosts, has spent his mornings criticizing and castigating Mr. Trump over the airwaves. And if Mr. Trump loses the Wisconsin primary on Tuesday, he will have Mr. Sykes and his merry band of talkers partly to blame.

In a nominating contest that has exposed fissures in the Republican Party, Wisconsin’s conservative talk radio apparatus remains remarkably united in at least one belief — their deep and utter dislike for Mr. Trump, who for months has been the focus of their fiery attacks.

The Wisconsin talk radio conglomerate, which rallied conservative voters to help Gov. Scott Walker win three elections in four years, has now set its sights on stopping Mr. Trump by deprecating the delegate leader and elevating Mr. Cruz. It can claim some success: A recent Marquette University poll shows Mr. Cruz, who had earlier trailed Mr. Trump, now leading by 10 points.

26
Eventual Carrion  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:40:14pm

re: #25 Amory Blaine

I know who runs Bartertown.

6 Talk Radio Hosts, on a Mission to Stop Trump in Wisconsin

27
Timothy Watson  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:41:03pm

re: #23 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

I have fucking had it with these people.

Is actress Debra Messing also going to have to tell Tim Robbins off like she did Susan Sarandon?

28
Shiplord Kirel  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:41:04pm

re: #20 Patricia Kayden

When does the pro-choice side become as passionate about protecting women’s access to abortions as the forced birther side has been since Roe v. Wade? Forced birthers are getting their way in too many states. It’s as if we are inching towards the America described by Margaret Atwood in The Handmaid’s Tale.

One problem is that there is no pro-choice, or even generally liberal, equivalent of the informal but very real network of fundamentalist churches that extends into every city, hamlet, and rural crossroads in the country. There are big clumps of fully indoctrinated, fanatical anti-abortion protesters organized and waiting every few city blocks in the Texas suburbs. Add this to the Catholic church and its traditional anti-choice activism and you have a massive grassroots effort that too often is off the radar screen of the national media.

29
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:43:54pm

re: #23 bratwurst

Has Bernie won an actual primary yet, or only caucuses?

30
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:45:11pm

re: #29 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Has Bernie won an actual primary yet, or only caucuses?

New Hampshire, at least.

31
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:45:26pm

python is cool but node.js is way superior to flask

32
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:45:56pm

re: #28 Shiplord Kirel

Add this to the Catholic church and its traditional anti-choice activism…

They should lose their tax exemption retroactively.

33
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:46:08pm

re: #30 Blind Frog Belly White

New Hampshire, at least.

True enough. So there’s one, albeit one that was a must win for him.

34
Maxwell Not So Smart  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:46:49pm

I’m not sure what to make of what Trump originally said. I wondered at first if it was what he really thinks or not or if he was just trying to say what he thinks the extremists he appeals to wanted to hear.

The part that has surprised me was that when asked if men should also be punished after some waffling he said No. I guess the original comment of punishing women was so awful it was considered almost unimportant that he feels only women should be blamed for getting pregnant. Real men are just doing I don’t know what by his *logic* but certainly can’t be responsible at all for a women getting pregnant.

35
bratwurst  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:47:26pm

re: #29 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Has Bernie won an actual primary yet, or only caucuses?

Aside from his home in Vermont, he DID win primaries in Michigan and Oklahoma.

36
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:47:44pm

re: #29 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Has Bernie won an actual primary yet, or only caucuses?

out of the 15 states he’s won so far, at least some of them have to have been primaries

37
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:48:21pm

Only one way IMO to deal with these assholes. That’s with crude sexual humor.

38
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:48:23pm

re: #35 bratwurst

Aside from his home in Vermont, he DID win primaries in Michigan and Oklahoma.

Thanks.

Still not the best record when it is easier for people to vote, but better than nothing.

39
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:53:51pm

re: #30 Blind Frog Belly White

New Hampshire, at least.

Also Oklahoma, Vermont, Democrats Abroad & Michigan.

What he’s never won so far is a fully closed primary, only fully open or semi-closed ones. April 19th & 26th will be the reckoning, 6 moderately diverse mid Atlantic States, 5 of which operate fully closed primaries.

40
Shiplord Kirel  Apr 4, 2016 • 2:56:38pm

re: #28 Shiplord Kirel

One problem is that there is no pro-choice, or even generally liberal, equivalent of the informal but very real network of fundamentalist churches that extends into every city, hamlet, and rural crossroads in the country. There are big clumps of fully indoctrinated, fanatical anti-abortion protesters organized and waiting every few city blocks in the Texas suburbs. Add this to the Catholic church and its traditional anti-choice activism and you have a massive grassroots effort that too often is off the radar screen of the national media.

It’s pretty obvious to me at least that the fundy/RWNJ view of American mosques as centers of subversion and fanaticism is pure projection. Their anti-Muslim fantasies could easily describe what goes on at many fundamentalist right-wing churches every week. There are churches in Texas that have their own shooting ranges. Pause for a moment and contemplate the reaction if a local mosque were even suspected of having such a facility. Last week a Lubbock RWNJ church presented a showing of the anti-Hillary propaganda movie 13 Hours, complete with the alleged participants whose stories were the basis of the script. The latter are making the fundy circuit around the country, and apparently raking in the dough (admission was ten bucks).

41
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:01:31pm

re: #23 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

I have fucking had it with these people.

42
Reality Based Steve  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:02:21pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

It’s pretty obvious to me at least that the fundy/RWNJ view of American mosques as centers of subversion and fanaticism is pure projection. Their anti-Muslim fantasies could easily describe what goes on at many fundamentalist right-wing churches every week. There are churches in Texas that have their own shooting ranges. Pause for a moment and contemplate the reaction if a local mosque were even suspected of having such a facility. Last week a Lubbock RWNJ church presented a showing of the anti-Hillary propaganda movie 13 Hours, complete with the alleged participants whose stories were the basis of the script. The latter are making the fundy circuit around the country, and apparently raking in the dough (admission was ten bucks).

Sometimes I curse my parents for raising me to have a moral compass and a strong sense of what behavior is right and good for the society. If they hadn’t I’m sure that I’d find a good grift and be out there raking in my portion of the RWNJ bucks. Not that I’d actually BELIEVE anything I was putting out there of course.

RBS

43
KGxvi  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:02:41pm
the lex talionis does bring out that if a hazardous condition is created such that a child would be likely to die, whether in the womb or outside of the womb, there ought to be some level of prosecution going on. In that case, it may be just a fine or a prison sentence of some sort. But the principle of the matter is that it’s a criminal action to kill a child, to murder a child, it ought to be a criminal action

Interesting… the punishment for murder can “be just a fine”. I don’t practice criminal law, but I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that nobody convicted of murder or even manslaughter gets “just a fine.”

44
Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:06:57pm
45
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:07:54pm

re: #43 KGxvi

Interesting… the punishment for murder can “be just a fine”. I don’t practice criminal law, but I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that nobody convicted of murder or even manslaughter gets “just a fine.”

Also, isn’t proportionality of punishment kind of an intrinsic aspect of the term lex talionis?

lex talionis
noun lex ta*li*o*nis \¦lekˌstalēˈōnə̇s\
Definition of lex talionis
: the law of retaliation equivalent to an offense; especially : the principle of retributive justice based on the Mosaic law of “eye for eye, tooth for tooth” in Exod 21:23-25 —called also talion

46
Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:11:12pm

Fuck it, you said it.

47
blueraven  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:11:12pm

re: #23 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

I have fucking had it with these people.

Yes, Alaska, Utah and Oklahoma are huge victories for the Democrats.

//

What do they not understand here? There are Democrats in all 50 states. We are selecting the Democratic nominee. Every freaking vote counts the same no matter what state you live in.

48
Shiplord Kirel  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:11:42pm

Speaking of the fundy grift circuit, here is an example now making the rounds, a colossal strawman like the ones they peddle about evolution. Keep in mind that this has been repeated over and over for years, until it is the gospel truth to RWNJs:

Contrast with this genuine scientific passage from The World We Live In, a fantastic coffee table size science book produced by Time-Life way back in 1955:

Yet for the past century, temperatures have shown an upward trend. This has been particularly true in the last four decades (since 1915- SK), during which glaciers have been in retreat all around the world. The reasons for this gradual warming of the Earth cannot be defined with certainty. Along with water vapor and ozone, carbon dioxide helps to trap the Earth’s heat within the greenhouse of the atmosphere and prevents it from radiating away into space. In the last half century, the carbon dioxide ratio in the atmosphere has increased by 10%, a phenomenon which some attribute to expanding industry, pointing out that six billion tons of carbon dioxide pour from factory chimneys every year. (Emphasis added)

The article also speculates about other possible causes including deforestation and the disturbance of the soil. It wasn’t settled then, but it is now. This has been a serious concern of the scientific community for over 60 years. The current consensus was not reached lightly. Calls for more research to settle the issue are simply a dishonest smokescreen put up by those who profit from the very dangerous status quo.

49
bratwurst  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:11:46pm
50
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:14:08pm
51
jaunte  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:16:31pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

He’s like the Tim Robbins of political pundits.

52
The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:16:52pm

re: #25 Amory Blaine

I know who runs Bartertown.

6 Talk Radio Hosts, on a Mission to Stop Trump in Wisconsin

Yup, and the majority of Wisconsin conservatives are falling in line. I have come to the conclusion that Sykes and his band of idiots have way to much power here. It’s honestly frightening.

53
Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:19:25pm
54
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:23:11pm

Apparently it is totes okay that Bernie isn’t raising money for downticket Dems because all that money Hillary is raising is going to the DNC and therefore is useless.

According to some BernieBros, anyway.

55
Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:23:28pm
56
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:27:00pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

I wish some Liberal filmmaker would make a dystopian movie about a place where these people got their way on all this stuff.

Would make a great sci-fi/horror flick.

“The Handmaid’s Tale” was made into a movie, starring Natasha Richardson I believe.

57
jaunte  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:27:02pm
58
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:31:19pm

Just got back from Canada, had a great trip! Will visit again. 5 stars!

(My Yelp! review of Canada)

59
Patricia Kayden  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:32:58pm

re: #58 The Vicious Babushka

Just got back from Canada, had a great trip! Will visit again. 5 stars!

(My Yelp! review of Canada)

Glad to hear you liked it up there in the Free North as a former Canadian. Lovely country and the Prime Minister is quite a looker.

60
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:34:52pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Apparently playing the talented, but rather dim Nuke LaLoosh was not a stretch for him.

61
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:38:30pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Is there a running bet on which Sandbagger can make the biggest ass of themselves?

62
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:41:12pm

re: #59 Patricia Kayden

Glad to hear you liked it up there in the Free North as a former Canadian. Lovely country and the Prime Minister is quite a looker.

There is a looping video that’s played at all the onRoute rest stops. It shows various tourism spots and popular events in Ontario, and concludes with a gay wedding celebration.

63
KGxvi  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:41:22pm

re: #61 b.d.

Is there a running bet on which Sandbagger can make the biggest ass of themselves?

The best bet is to take the field.

64
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:42:22pm

re: #63 KGxvi

The best bet is to take the field.

I have a C-Note on Cornel West.

65
KGxvi  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:44:41pm

re: #64 b.d.

I have a C-Note on Cornel West.

That’s a safe bet, but you can’t be getting much better than 5:2 on it.

66
Jack Burton  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:44:55pm

re: #64 b.d.

I have a C-Note on Cornel West.

I’m pretty sure that the Sarandon-Robbins duo will give him a run for his money before this is all over.

67
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:45:00pm
68
Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:48:28pm

loving that protest sign:

69
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:50:09pm

re: #68 Backwoods_Sleuth

loving that protest sign:

[Embedded content]

And the best part is, you can reuse it over and over!

70
451_Montag  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:50:13pm

re: #68 Backwoods_Sleuth

loving that protest sign:

[Embedded content]

Careful now.

Points to anyone who gets the reference

71
Scout  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:54:49pm

re: #70 451_Montag

Father Ted?

72
Nojay UK  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:55:25pm

re: #70 451_Montag

Ten points to Gryffindor? (Should be the Althing, but close enough).

Another weird Parliamentary name is the Japanese Diet, doubly so since there isn’t a singular “t” sound in the Japanese language.

73
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:55:30pm

Reading a couple pieces mocking Trump’s claim that he’s gonna pay off the $19 Trillion national debt in only 8 years, while cutting taxes by $10-12 Trillion, increasing military spending, and keeping Social Security benefits intact, one thing popped up which I found interesting, if not galling. It seems that, once adjusted for expected inflation, the annual yield on a 5-year Treasury bond is -0.26%.

That’s right, NEGATIVE 0.26%. People are PAYING US to lend us money.

74
451_Montag  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:56:16pm

re: #71 Scout

Father Ted?

Oooh. Quick. Take a point

Have a song
Father Ted | My Lovely Horse | Channel 4

75
withak  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:57:01pm

I don’t even know for sure what’s going on in this thread, but I can guarantee that this will make you happier.

Can Puppies Fix Boredom? #PowerofPuppies

76
TedStriker  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:57:46pm

re: #46 Stanley Sea

Fuck it, you said it.

[Embedded content]

77
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 3:58:41pm

Seriously, if you have the time read the portion of the transcript that begins with …

Daily News: Now, switching to the financial sector, to Wall Street. Speaking broadly, you said that within the first 100 days of your administration you’d be drawing up…your Treasury Department would be drawing up a too-big-to-fail list. Would you expect that that’s essentially the list that already exists under Dodd-Frank? Under the Financial Stability Oversight Council?

… and keep reading until your eyes explode. The man has not one fucking clue how to do what he says he’s going to do. It’s all raw assertion and wishful thinking that runs utterly counter to legal precedent and harsh reality. He’s selling patchouli scented snake oil.

78
Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:00:49pm

re: #75 withak

I don’t even know for sure what’s going on in this thread, but I can guarantee that this will make you happier.

[Embedded content]

Video

sniff

79
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:12:05pm
80
Mike Lamb  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:12:25pm

re: #12 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Offshoring money is the white collar version of illegal immigration. It has precisely the same effect as the list of terribles allegedly arising from undocumented workers..

81
BeachDem  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:12:55pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

Which leads to: all fertile (or assumed fertile) women can be locked up (pending investigation) for smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer, or having a miscarriage (or period, a day late or whatever).

It’s nothing new—the right wing has been passing these kinds of laws for years:

From 2011:

Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals…In Alabama at least 40 cases have been brought under the state’s “chemical endangerment” law…

At least 38 states have introduced fetal homicide laws that were intended to be used against violent attacks by third parties like abusive male partners. But in South Carolina, only one case has been brought against a man for assaulting a pregnant woman, while up to 300 women have been arrested under the law, according to the National Advocates for Pregnant Women.

thinkprogress.org

82
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:13:16pm

:(

83
Dr. Matt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:14:48pm
84
ObserverArt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:18:14pm

Actors.

Stick to your roles. Play your parts and follow your scripts.

Stop acting like you know any more about politics than the average American. In fact, since the average American has to go through the reality of every day life, I’d take the political thinking of the every-day citizens buried in their reality over words of the play acting of someone like Sarandon or Robbins.

But in a way I can see why Bernie is relying on actors. Many parts of his whole campaign are fiction.

85
lawhawk  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:18:32pm

re: #18 Scout

Google is your friend. Or NYT.

In the caucus, 440 people voted for Sanders.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from.

[update]

Alaska’s Democratic caucus site information says roughly 8k voted for Sanders, 2k for Clinton. A substantially higher number than Google or the NYT were reporting to be sure, but it’s not exactly the million people who voted for Hillary by landslide margins in Florida (nearly 2-1).

86
ipsos  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:21:45pm

re: #62 The Vicious Babushka

There is a looping video that’s played at all the onRoute rest stops. It shows various tourism spots and popular events in Ontario, and concludes with a gay wedding celebration.

We just came back from taking the kids to Montreal and Ottawa for the first time. (Theirs, not mine.) They loved it.

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:22:10pm

re: #85 lawhawk

Google is your friend. Or NYT.

In the caucus, 440 people voted for Sanders.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from.

EDIT: The NYT’s results page for the Alaska primary says the following about the results:

*Vote totals for the Alaska Democratic Party are state convention delegates won.

So I suspect the numbers aren’t total voters.

88
makeitstop  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:22:29pm

Drive-by dog chaos: Husky meets calligraphy ink.

89
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:22:54pm

re: #85 lawhawk

Alaska Dispatch News does support the 10,000 number.

The 440 number is the state convention delegates won, per the NYT graphic.

90
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:24:23pm

re: #81 BeachDem

It’s nothing new—the right wing has been passing these kinds of laws for years:

From 2011:

Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals…In Alabama at least 40 cases have been brought under the state’s “chemical endangerment” law…

At least 38 states have introduced fetal homicide laws that were intended to be used against violent attacks by third parties like abusive male partners. But in South Carolina, only one case has been brought against a man for assaulting a pregnant woman, while up to 300 women have been arrested under the law, according to the National Advocates for Pregnant Women.

thinkprogress.org

That’s why, when Trump was asked whether any of the fathers of the aborted would be punished, he said, ‘Um, no.’

91
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:25:57pm

re: #86 ipsos

We just came back from taking the kids to Montreal and Ottawa for the first time. (Theirs, not mine.) They loved it.

Montreal has some amazing food. I was born in Ottawa and also lived in the Kitchener area for awhile. I have traveled that Detroit-Toronto-Montreal corridor many times.

92
ObserverArt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:26:16pm

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

UnprintableHandleGuy ‎@goddamnedfrank

.@ABCPolitics Guam hasn’t voted yet and @TimRobbins1 tells the entire island to go eat shit. Next level politicking for sure. @BernieSanders

6:00 PM - 4 Apr 2016

Every vote counts!

Just so long as they are for Bernie. Clinton votes not so much.

93
Scout  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:27:29pm

re: #85 lawhawk

Google is your friend. Or NYT.

In the caucus, 440 people voted for Sanders.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from.

The website of the Alaska Democratic Party. alaskademocrats.org

You have to click on Caucus Results, and then Caucus Results, and you get to download a PDF file.

As I wrote earlier, I don’t understand the difference between “attendees” and “voters.”

But it seems clear from local media accounts in Alaska, there was pretty good turnout. Here are a couple of accounts. One has a photo of Fairbanks with at least a couple hundred people in it, waiting in line.

Link
Link
Also, as I wrote earlier, I wish I knew more about the caucus systems in all the different states.

94
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:29:06pm

re: #93 Scout

For whatever reason, the ADP reported the delegates won for the state convention instead of the voters who actually participated in the caucuses which selected them.

That’s the root of the confusion here.

95
ObserverArt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:29:38pm

re: #46 Stanley Sea

Fuck it, you said it.

Tim Robbins ✔
@TimRobbins1

No disrespect to voters of SC or Guam. Was making a point about MSM anointing HRC after SC primary. No surprise ABC took it out of context.

6:03 PM - 4 Apr 2016

Damn. Maybe Robbins is a politician. He is practicing the political statement walk-back. Or, did he learn that from a role from some movie?

96
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:29:38pm

Oh boy! Another friend trying to suck me into an MLM thing. That’s the third one this year so far.

97
EmmaAnne  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:29:54pm

re: #87 Blind Frog Belly White

Whoa. I thought he’d won BY 440 votes. Not that he’d won WITH 440 votes. Jesus. That’s fewer people than lived in my home town when I was growing up - a dinky little place with not even a traffic light to brag about.

Those are delegates, not votes. Caucuses assign delegates. Primaries count votes.

98
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:30:17pm

re: #88 makeitstop

Drive-by dog chaos: Husky meets calligraphy ink.

hahahaha, omg

99
lawhawk  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:30:42pm

re: #94 klys (maker of Silmarils)

For whatever reason, the ADP reported the delegates won for the state convention instead of the voters who actually participated in the caucuses which selected them.

That’s the root of the confusion here.

And that 440 figure doesn’t mean anything since there’s a grand total of 16 delegates for AK altogether (13 for Sanders). So yes, that’s the confusion.

100
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:30:49pm

WTF is the point of caucuses, again? Why are they so prevalent? Was it this way in 2008? Or did a lot of states say, “You know, I have an idea for giving a small number of enthusiastic people a whole lot more power!”

101
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:31:12pm
102
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:31:15pm

re: #97 EmmaAnne

Those are delegates, not votes. Caucuses assign delegates. Primaries count votes.

Already edited to reflect.

103
Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:31:38pm

re: #91 Eclectic Cyborg

Montreal has some amazing food. I was born in Ottawa and also lived in the Kitchener area for awhile. I have traveled that Detroit-Toronto-Montreal corridor many times.

That’s my pick if Trump wins. I’ll get out my years of studying French & see what happens.

104
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:32:44pm

re: #100 Blind Frog Belly White

WTF is the point of caucuses, again? Why are they so prevalent? Was it this way in 2008? Or did a lot of states say, “You know, I have an idea for giving a small number of enthusiastic people a whole lot more power!”

Caucuses suck but the only folks who can change it to an honestly, real vote from a caucus got into office because of a caucus.

//

105
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:32:51pm

re: #99 lawhawk

And that 440 figure doesn’t mean anything since there’s a grand total of 16 delegates for AK altogether (13 for Sanders). So yes, that’s the confusion.

And to make it even worse, the NYT reports votes on the Republican side, on the same page.

106
lawhawk  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:33:20pm

re: #97 EmmaAnne

Yeah, and adding to the confusion is that the Democrats do the whole delegate equivalent tally, while the GOP actually totals the number of caucus supporters for each candidate.

107
Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:06pm

re: #88 makeitstop

Drive-by dog chaos: Husky meets calligraphy ink.

OMG. That apt gets a full gut job.

108
KGxvi  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:23pm

re: #103 Stanley Sea

That’s my pick if Trump wins. I’ll get out my years of studying French & see what happens.

Too far north for me. I’d prefer someplace more tropical. But I’d probably get island fever if I really did try to do the Caribbean expat thing, so it’d probably end up being someplace on the Mediterranean.

109
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:24pm

re: #101 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Thomas is now like Charlie McCarthy after Edgar Bergen died.

110
The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:25pm

re: #88 makeitstop

That looks like carnage from a Malamute mix. You should see the holes they dig.

111
gocart mozart  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:38pm
112
Kragar  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:34:42pm
113
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:35:06pm

re: #96 Eclectic Cyborg

Oh boy! Another friend trying to suck me into an MLM thing. That’s the third one this year so far.

Most Lives Matter? Multi Level Marketing?

114
Scout  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:35:50pm

re: #99 lawhawk

And that 440 figure doesn’t mean anything since there’s a grand total of 16 delegates for AK altogether (13 for Sanders). So yes, that’s the confusion.

That’s what I was wondering about in my original post — why would people be saying “he won with 440 voters” — when newspapers in Alaska were reporting that turnout (or should I say “participation”) was really high?

I meant no offense, and yes, my Google skills are pretty poor. I admit it.

115
darthstar  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:36:00pm
116
The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:36:42pm

re: #113 wrenchwench

Most Lives Matter? Multi Level Marketing?

Morons loving morons?

117
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:37:23pm

re: #114 Scout

That’s what I was wondering about in my original post — why would people be saying “he won with 440 voters” — when newspapers in Alaska were reporting that turnout (or should I say “participation”) was really high?

I meant no offense, and yes, my Google skills are pretty poor. I admit it.

What’s sad is that 10,000 people is considered a high turnout. (The Republicans had twice as many show up.)

I don’t like caucuses.

118
wrenchwench  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:38:09pm

re: #116 The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

Morons loving morons?

That’s my Facebook page.

119
BeachDem  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:38:14pm

re: #93 Scout

Also, as I wrote earlier, I wish I knew more about the caucus systems in all the different states.

This kos diary has a really detailed explanation of the caucus system in Washington.

dailykos.com

120
gocart mozart  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:38:19pm

re: #115 darthstar

Hah, beat you by two minutes!

121
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:39:17pm

re: #117 klys (maker of Silmarils)

What’s sad is that 10,000 people is considered a high turnout. (The Republicans had twice as many show up.)

I don’t like caucuses.

Then there’s Nevada. What the fuck is up with THAT shit?

122
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:39:53pm

re: #120 gocart mozart

Hah, beat you by two minutes!

Pretty sure someone else beat both of you by at least a week.

123
nines09  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:41:23pm

So the other night……This commercial comes on…and….
Now what I want you to do if you have an iPhone 6s is enable hands free Siri. Now place your phone by your speakers. Now play this…. Hey, Siri?

124
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:42:05pm

re: #121 Blind Frog Belly White

Then there’s Nevada. What the fuck is up with THAT shit?

In general, I don’t attempt to explain Nevada.

125
Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:42:08pm

re: #116 The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

Morons loving morons?

Most Lose Money

126
Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:42:59pm
128
EmmaAnne  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:43:59pm

OK, caucus state Democrat here. Here is the story, at least for my state (Colorado). We have caucuses because the state legislature decided we would. The state has to pay for primaries, but the parties pay for caucuses. The state also decides who gets to vote (closed) and what time we have the caucus (7:00 PM on a Tuesday).

All of this makes it VERY DIFFICULT to run the caucus in a contested presidential year. We can pretty much only have them in schools (ADA regulations and such) and they want us out at 9:00. Result: chaos.

Now, each precinct gets a certain number of delegates to send to the county convention, based on how many Democrats voted from that precinct last election. Mine got three. It doesn’t matter how many people in the precinct show up. Only the proportions matter in order to assign delegates. We elected one Hillary delegate and two Bernie delegates. We do forward the number of voters as well, but just for curiosity’s sake. If three people showed up we would still get three (county) delegates.

The county delegates go to the county convention, where state delegates are elected. They go to the state convention, where national delegates are elected. The reports you get out of caucus states (440 for Alaska) have nothing to do with the number of people who attended caucus and voted, and they ALSO have nothing to do with the eventual national delegates, except they should be more or less proportional.

The (national) delegate totals you see are estimates for each state, based on the county delegates. They can change a bit, if people don’t show up or they vote the wrong way. This just happened in Nevada - details aren’t quite clear.

This, by the way, is a very good reason to have super delegates. The candidates could be essentially tied in delegates, because of challenges and no-shows and so on - the super delegates could be the tie breaker. They could also step in if the leading candidate had a stroke or was caught with a live sheep. They haven’t ever overturned the clear will of the voters, and I doubt they would without a good reason. They are mostly politicians (or wanna be politicians), after all.

129
Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:44:51pm

MrBWS just called me on the Skype. They finally got all the power restored in Greater Cincinnati; 17 hours yesterday and 13 hours today.
He’s too tired to even make something for dinner, much less eat anything.

130
b.d.  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:47:59pm

re: #126 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Wolf Blitzer as mod.

Oh boy.

131
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:48:34pm

re: #124 klys (maker of Silmarils)

In general, I don’t attempt to explain Nevada.

When I read just a bit about the three-stage delegate awarding process, it made me think of Tom Lehrer’s ‘New Math’:

Video

132
ObserverArt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:49:54pm

re: #129 Backwoods_Sleuth

MrBWS just called me on the Skype. They finally got all the power restored in Greater Cincinnati; 17 hours yesterday and 13 hours today.
He’s too tired to even make something for dinner, much less eat anything.

All I know is I am thankful for all the MrBWSs of this country.

As I commented on Saturday evening…the power was down here in my neighborhood here in Columbus. It was back on for good about an hour-and-a-half later.

133
Teukka  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:51:25pm

re: #127 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Be noted, A. Muscaria is poisonous, but nowhere as bad as A. Virosa or A. Phalloides.

134
Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:52:27pm
135
TedStriker  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:53:05pm

re: #134 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yeah, pretty much.

136
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:53:13pm
137
Teukka  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:54:51pm

re: #133 Teukka

Be noted, A. Muscaria is poisonous, but nowhere as bad as A. Virosa or A. Phalloides.

To put it in a more symbolic perspective, A. Muscaria is Jeb, A. Virosa and A. Phalloides are the Cruz’ and Trumps of fungii.

138
ObserverArt  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:57:25pm

Heh. It appears Ohio Johnny is being a complete pain in the ass to Trump and Cruz. They want him gone. He is going nowhere. Not in the race and not leaving the race.

I guess he is good for something.

139
jaunte  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:57:27pm
140
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 4:58:41pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Because winning by 13,575 votes in a Red State Romney won by 32% MEANS SOMETHING, but winning by 175,537 votes in a different Red State where Romney won by only 10% is meaningless.

141
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 5:00:27pm

re: #138 ObserverArt

Heh. It appears Ohio Johnny is being a complete pain in the ass to Trump and Cruz. They want him gone. He is going nowhere. Not in the race and not leaving the race.

I guess he is good for something.

Like Guy Fleegman in ‘Galaxy Quest’ - Plucky Comic Relief.

Or maybe he’s the guy who goes down to the planet and gets killed.
//

142
goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2016 • 5:00:52pm
143
Blind Frog Belly White  Apr 4, 2016 • 5:03:49pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

While supporting a candidate from Brooklyn.

144
Cheechako  Apr 4, 2016 • 5:04:46pm

For everyone’s information, here’s the summary of Alaskan registered voters as of 4/03/2016:

Alaska Independence Party - 16,188 - 3%
Democratic Party - 72,304 - 14%
Libertarian Party - 7,144 - 1%
Republician Party - 138, 973 - 27%
Non Partisian - 86,405 - 17%
Undeclared - 185,197 - 37%

Total Registered Voters - 506,211

Note the Non-Partisin and Undeclared voters make up 54% of the voters.

145
BeachDem  Apr 4, 2016 • 5:32:39pm

re: #139 jaunte

[Embedded content]

That was excellent. My favorite:


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 125 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 287 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1