Just posted in the other thread. It seems it is a real reporter. Google it.

Although I think the letter is BS.

Trifecta :-)

Everyones drunk from St. Pattys.

Quafecta

I'm done.

opheera McDoom?

Dickens himself never did that well. . . .

The leprechauns have taken over the wire service. Too early for an April Fool's joke.

"We support George Bush"

"Please don't throw me in that brer patch."

(Man I could be here all night, but gotta get up at six.)

'Nite, RWC!

Shameless Re-post. (my apologies)

Yeah sure - AQ wants Bush to win.
and Monkeys just flew out of my butt.

AQ wants Kerry to win, as sure as the sun rises in the east.

#9 logger phd

'night. I was just saying that I was stopping at #5. But goodnight to you.

#4 RWC:

Everybody drunk from St. Paddy's day would be a quaff-ecta.

I just kill me, I really do.

OT...the start of civil war in the utopian society of the PA?

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

#12 andthenblammo!

LOL. Well, I hope everyone wakes up tomorrow and they aren't all quafucta.

ehhh, that sucked. But I have no shame

I'll believe it when the thousands of money orders for $200 start rolling in to the Republican national committee, all in the name of Abu el Anon y mas

I smell desperate DUer. They know Kerry is all but finished. So, what is the harm in yet another phat LIE tossed on the heap?

She also wrote the article about the Egyptian who wanted to sue Israel for the "Biblical Plunder" during the Exodus (9/11/03, date of article, not the Exodus from Egypt).

Are they trying reverse psychology?

They are saying that because they want to make it seem as if the ENTIRE war on TERROR is all Bush's fault...and if Kerry Wins...they will give in and make a truce...They want Bush so that it seems as if it is BUSH that is making this war and not the terrorists themselves...kind of wierd psychology,

But knowing the rest of the world...they are going to see this and be like...hmmm AQ wants BUSH..then WE WANT KERRY...

It is an interesting Psychology...actually pretty ingenious if you think about it...they are playing with Liberal Ideals and Values aganist the very same people.

Interesting...

Andrew B.

"Opheera McDoom" could be the journalistic equivalent of "Alan Smithee": i.e., a stock pseudonym used by Reuters reporters who want to be anonymous. When I Googled the name (thanks, Right Wing Conspirator) and when I Googled the name with "Reuters," the number of hits was nearly the same, so the name might be a Reuters creation. Perhaps the name is meant to shield reporters from getting hurt or killed for writing things that offend fanatics.

Has anyone here actually seen this issue of al-Hayat? It's hard to check the accuracy of this alleged translation. Most people reading this won't know Arabic and wouldn't be able to distinguish al-Hayat from another Arabic (or even Farsi or Urdu!) paper even if they did have access to it.

Opheera McDoom

Co-written by Lucretia McEvil.

#16 Free Speech:

One has to wonder when people start investing time in converting us to Kerry voters, as has happened over the last few days. And with Dizzy Dean spouting off, well, Kerry might have to paraphrase the Wizard of Oz: "Pay no attention to that man hanging from the curtains".

Two Options:

(1) Al-Qaeda wants Bush in so that they can still have a reason to fight against the occupation in Iraq and America's support of Israel. I'm guessing that they are assuming that the Democrats won't be as accomodating in their support of Israel. Possibly to get more recruits for their network?

(2) It's a swerve. Saying Al-Qaeda wants Bush in so the terrified Americans vote in Kerry to Al-Qaeda's detriment. Believing that the Americans are that gullible, they'll end up with Kerry who won't come crashing down on Al-Qaeda after they continue their terrorist attacks.

The second option seems more likely.

I have leaned from you Americans. What I really said was "There those Right Wing fanatics go lying about what I said. Yes, I said I wanted George Bush to win just before I said I wanted Kerry to win." I think you call this "Nuanced?".

Ah hell! Amritas posted what I was going ask...

It's a joke name, like Naughtius Maximus or Biggus Dickus...

Bob abu E. (aka DocJeff) #21

Opheera McDoom wishes she was good enough to work with me!

I smell Frank J. in this one. Opheera McDoom? That's Fascist McFascist's drag-name, isn't it?

You've learnt something from the kufr. Ishallah, we can defeat them. Kerry wins, Bush wins; either way the Jews win and we Muslims are humiliated.

Roaaar! Roaaar! Yelp, Yelp, Yelp, Yelp, Yeeelllp!!!

28 was addressed to Osama, kufr!

'Twas the Poteen.

I see a bit of reverse psychology going on here. AQ doesn’t want Kerry to win because Kerry will be able to beat the AQ. Therefore of course we must vote for kerry if we want to beat them. Of course we aren’t dumb enough to believe that AQ would tell us how to defeat them.

Wow Yasser. Only one minute in between the start of the Lion hump Jackal game and your all ready to post again. Rwooohhhrrr !!! What a luvvvaaa.

This report, and its author, sound odd.

But if it's an actual report from the "news" agency, it appears the islamazoids are definitely watching the US media and the 2004 election closely.
 

Quick Draw McGraw...

Officer McGruff... ("Take a bite out of crime")

There’s got to be a lawsuit in here somewhere.

Google hit numbers:

"Opheera": 408
"Opheera McDoom": 405
"McDoom": 886

It seems that "McDoom" is a real name. I've found it with some very un-Western sounding first names, which leads me to wonder whether it is a Westernized version of a non-Western surname like "Makdum" (409 hits) or the like.

"Opheera" is found almost exclusively with "McDoom." It looks like a, uh, "yunik" spelling of the Hebrew girls' name "Ofira" (2,940 hits).

OT:

Here is what appears to be an intriguing new movie about the Taliban, called "Osama."

It's about a young Afghan girl who must act as a boy to survive under islamofascist rule.

I hear GWB really liked the movie, and asked others to watch it as well.  (This news predictably upset the film's Hollywood producers, etc. -- surely Bushitler was not allowed to enjoy and recommend such a movie.)

View large trailer:
[Link: www.apple.com...]

View medium trailer:
[Link: www.apple.com...]

View small trailer:
[Link: www.apple.com...]
 

Alert!!! Time to bail on BigMac stock. Can't you see? McDoom is code word for massive world wide attack on McDonalds? Nobody who lives within 5 miles of a McDonalds is safe. Run for the hills while there is time.

More here...

"To America's lackeys we say: a lackey of America has destroyed his future by allying himself with the tyrant of the century," said the text signed by Abu-Hafs al-Masri/al-Qaeda Brigades received by al-Qods al-Arabi.

"Our brigades are now preparing for a fresh strike. Will it be the turn of Japan, America, Italy, Britain, the al-Sauds, Australia ...?" it warned.

"Jose Marie Aznar will be chucked into the dustbin of history," said the statement, referring to the Spanish prime minister who was swept out of power in general elections last Sunday.

"Learn your lesson, you lackeys of America, the brigades of death are at your gates," it warned.

"We will strike you with an iron fist, at the appropriate place and time," said the statement, condemning "Arab and Muslim lackeys like (Pakistani President Pervez) Musharraf and the al-Saud" family which rules Saudi Arabia.

So far I am noticing that Opheera McDoom is someone who reports on rafting and Al-Qaeda. Hmmm. To each his own.

ps - I think she/he is probably real. But someone just sent a super fake letter to them and they published it.

A year ago, James Taranto also had some fun with the name of this reporter
[Link: www.opinionjournal.com...]

Looniest Reuters Headline Yet

"Blair Faces War Crimes Trial After Iraq War." We almost have to wonder if this is a joke though; the byline on the piece is "Opheera McDoom".

The joke here is not McDoom's monicker, though. It's that the Islamists think that the American public is stupid enough to believe their taqiya.

Will the Democrats pick this up and also think that the public is so stupid as to believe it? That would be an even more remarkable occurrence.

If the jihadi terrorists really want Bush to win, I have some simple straight advice for them: turn themselves in, give up their arms, confess their plans, turn in their comrades-in-jihad. That will surely put Bush back in the Oval Office. If they won't do that, I wish they would please spare me the BS.

Hence forth I shall be known as Abu McBoom. As in Kabooom! Get it, opressors!

RWC, come down to Ramallah sometime, and I'll get you yelping!!!

Opheera McDoom?

Isn't she the cousin of Oprah Winfrey?

#1 is correct. The name is odd but Opheera McDoom is a real Reuters reporter.

I woudn't be surprised if the leftys jumped all over this. Their so gullable.

So Alquida is in the prapaganda busines?

The Onion laid off its writers and they got new jobs at Reuters.

#42:

Abu McBoom? You da Bomb!

In comments addressed to Bush, the group said:

“Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy and present it to the Arab and Muslim nation as civilization.”

Tonight on FOX: When terrorists get media savvy...

Ahhh, the old reverse psychology trick. "Please don't elect Mr. Kerry, he will be able to defeat us!"

While I can only hope the maroons can see through this B.B. bit, I no longer have any faith in people's ability to sort through the bullshit. Does this say more about what this terror group thinks of our intelligence, or how easily manipulated we really are?

I prefer the former, but I fear it is the latter.

I also thinks this letter proves (if really from the group who bombed Madrid) that even if they are affiliated with OBL, he did not have a direct hand in it.

RWC, are you the RWC on PR?

AL QUDS (Reuters) - A spokesman for terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden said on Wednesday that Al Qaeda would immediately cease terrorist operations and disband if Americans elect John Kerry president this November.

"Hear us, o infidel," said Sheikh Sqari al-Paq al-Ipz. "The prospect of four or, Allah forbid, eight years of hair-splitting from this horse-faced douche strikes fear into our very hearts. How will we oppose Satan when we won't know what Satan stands for from one day to the next?"

He went on to say that if America elected a socialist candidate, not only would Al Qaeda disband, it would order each of its members to kill themselves. "We swear by Allah it is true," said al-Paq al-Ipz. "We'd really, really be upset if you voted socialist. Big time."

"We love death more than you love nuance," he added.

as it was not possible to find a leader “more foolish than you (Bush), who deals with matters by force rather than with wisdom.”

They are trying to sing to the choir and play to the "Bush is sooo stupid" crowd. BTW, AQ admires force.

In comments addressed to Bush, the group said:

"Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy and present it to the Arab and Muslim nation as civilization."

Our nation?!? Whose nation? Egypt? NOI? The Pan-Arab Nation that doesn't exist? Or could this be some weak attempt at Psyops written by an American LLL?

Their taqiya is funny; but Baghdad Bob had a funnier style of taqiya.

Al Qaida doesn't want bush to win. This is reverse psychology. What they want is for Americans to say, "Hey look! The terrorists want Bush to win! We need to vote for Kerry!"

Idiots.

On NightLine tonight Koppel had Richard Perle and Hallbrook. Perle had Hallbrook for dindin. He also said clearly that the UN is involved in the oil for food scandal, and they do not have the resources/initiative to have more than a minimal part in the restructuring of Iraq.

[lame kung foo movie]

Your taqiya is pretty good ... BUT NOW YOU MUST DIE!!!

[/lame kung foo movie]

Kufrs

Don't you just love words without vowels? Another reason why Allah's religion is superior to yours.

Point of clarification: "our Nation"="the Universe". All Allah. Everywhere. Forever. Even on the moon. Mars is part of the Ummah. Hear it and tremble, O kufrs!

RWC, if Yasser's such a great lover, how come I'm the one with all the kiddies, huh?

Oh wait...I forgot...Yasser, Allah hates you! Yeeech!

There is no king but Usama.

Kerry Akhbar!

#55 quark2: dindin. lol.

Since no one has done the obvious yet...

All your Opheera McDoom are belong to us.

BTW, Opheera McDoom would be a great name for a rock band...

#54

Hey look! The terrorists want Bush to win!

Terrorists? Surely you mean commandos. Or legitimate resistors, maybe.

But, yes, as you say, these poor, humiliated people driven to desperate measures by neocon imperialism do in fact want Buhs to win.

For who can stand against the multifaceted nuances of John Kerry? Plus, I heard a rumor that he served in Vietnam. Oh yeah, freedom fighters the world 'round tremble at his passing.

Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy

"Hi, I'm John F*cking Kerry, I served in Vietnam and will kill your nation while it sleeps, and I'm running for President!"

Check it out: I cut n' pasted the following from a left-wing blog. It looks like the freaks are taking this seriously, and have started compiling a list of why Bush would make a good candidate for Al Quaeda:

Al Qaeda wanted Saddam removed from power, Bush removes Saddam from power.

Al Qaeda wanted US military out of the Saudi peninsula, Bush removes US military from Saudi peninsula.

Al Qaeda wanted to be treated seriously as a world class player locked in a fundamental clash of nations (for recruiting purposes) as opposed to rogue criminals, Bush declares them world class players locked in a fundamental clash of nations and refuses to view this as a law enforcement action.

Al Qaeda wanted a chemical weapons lab at Kirma, the pentagon wanted to destroy it, repeatedly requested to destroy it; Bush refuses to allow it.

Al Qaeda wanted the US to restrict freedoms on it's citizens, the Bush administration restricted freedoms on citizens.

Al Qaeda wanted the population to be afraid, Bush tells the population to be afraid.

Al Qaeda wanted safe passage of OBL realtives and Saudi big wigs out of the country after 9/11. Bush delivers them while the rest of the flying public is grounded.

Al Qaeda wanted to train in peace, Bush stopped that pesky drone program until after 9-11.

Al Quaeda wanted to show the weakness of the USA?s capitalist economy; Bush is draining the US economy with tax cuts and spending programs.

Al Quaeda wanted to weaken the USA?s defense; Bush moves to cut military benefits and cut first-responder programs.

Kaboom McDoom, Ofeera McDooms brother, is pleased to announce the impending wedding of his sister to his first cousin, Shaboom McDoom. (ya da da da da) Shaboom and his bride will honeymoon at the Kablooie Hilton in St Louie.

the denials here are pretty funny, as well as the oh-so-ominous questions about the name.

Opheera Mcdoom
Must be the little reuters leprachaun that only comes out on saint pattys day to spread "good cheer"

@58 lively

I'm surprised it didn't give Perle indigestion.

It was quite good to hear Perle say it like is as far as the relevancy of the UN.

OT
Has anyone heard from KevinP lately? I haven't seen him on any threads in several weeks now.

"Al Qaida doesn't want bush to win. This is reverse psychology. What they want is for Americans to say, "Hey look! The terrorists want Bush to win! We need to vote for Kerry!"

Idiots. "

so I take it youre voting for Kerry when NK leaders support him? reverse psychology, you know.

Seems like a very immature attempt at reverse psychology

The tinfoil underground could actually be right for once. The jihadis are always boasting how much they love death, and Buhs is certainly giving them some of that.

blah no green beer this year outta that green paper with dead presidents on it bah this herbal tea is green though

Japan Urges International Community to Unite Against Terrorism

March 18 (Bloomberg) -- Japan called on the international community to fight terrorism after a news report said a group linked to al-Qaeda threatened to attack ``America's lackeys'' such as Japan, the U.K., Italy, and Australia.

#57  Shiekh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin Laden

There is no King but Elvis.

(And all those Pali protesters carrying posters agree!)

opheera.mcdoom.reuters.com@reuters.net

This story obviously can't be verified but I think AQ does want Bush to win. Bush has created the kind of chaotic world that criminals thrive in.

Seriously, they must love Bush,
as proof just look at how the amount of terrorism has vastly increased since 2000.

Some weather we're having here in Albany, lemme tell you. There was like 6 inches of snow yesterday, and there's still plenty on the ground tonight (in fact, it was snowing again earlier this evening).

The good part about it is that it freezes the trolls.

#49 ernist

No. Don't think so. What is PR?

Anyone else know if ernist isn't here anymore?

To 75 Lewis Can't Lose
Try 7.5"

#57 Shiehk UBMBL:

Thanks for clarification. Wish we had known before leaving all those American flags (oh, and that Magen David) on Allah's moons and planets. Whoops.

Although, if you're a skier (I'm not), I'm sure there's some pretty prime powder. Well, okay, one time in college I went downhill skiing. But that was in Wisconsin. They don't have mountains in the midwest!!! I'm not sure I even get to count that as downhill skiing.

And I'd forgotten my knee brace. Y'see, I tore my medial collateral ligament playing football my senior year in high school, and I was supposed to wear a knee brace for activites like teh skiing. But I forgot and left it. Boy, I was plenty worried with each run I took down the hill. I mean, it worked out fine, nothing bad happened, but it was a little nerve wracking.

So, I was thinking about having a little nip or two.
What kind of drink do you think al Qaeda would prefer me to have?

"The Spanish people... chose peace by choosing the party that was against the alliance with America," the statement said.

Isn't that sweet? The softer, contemplative side of Al Qaeda. Can Al Qaeda soup kitchens be far behind?

#74, GAZE

remember the LFG prayer...

Al Qaeda drink: Flaming Zombie

#80 Lewis Can't Lose

That's an easy one.

If they want Bush to win, they should have just shut up about it.

Isn't it a bit counter productive for Al Qaeda to endorse Bush when they know their endorsement is poison? After all, they do want Bush to win.

There is no President except for Bush (pbuh) and McClellan (pbuh) is his messenger.

ululululululululululululu !!!

Goodnight all. ;-)

reverse psychology. And like I care what al-Qaeda thinks. I dont care what they want, I just want them to die.

#84 RWC

Excellent! I'll bet it goes great with white raisins.

I think it is just a ploy too. Maybe they think by supporting Bush that will insure Kerry's election.

A variation of what they did in Spain --trying to influence by getting people to NOT vote for BUsh because AQ supports him.

Idiots --

Rather OT: From Iraq The Model

“Long live the King”
Your majesty, the King of Spain:

I would like to send my congratulations and sincere wishes of peace and prosperity for you and your country on the occasion of ‘electing’ the new government that would sure lead your people to the shores of peace and prosperity again.

I’d like to add that I find it strange from many people allover the world to stick their noses in a strictly internal affair that concerns the people of Spain and no one else. What did those people expect and what business do they have in this issue?

I want to send my high regards to your royal person for your strong and loud voice and the usual courage of yours that you clearly showed in 3/11.
As expected from someone with your firm and persuasive character, you showed the people of Spain and the rest of the world that you could again, turn the tables and make the blind see and the deaf hear. How can one expect no response to your clear and loud message you sent to your royal subjects and to the rest of the world on that glorious day through that train?

Some irritating people may stick their nose again and say” but what about those who died in the train? How can you honor them with such action?” these ignorant should understand what needed no explanation to the Spanish voters who turned the table; they are honoring them by avoiding more death, so they served their role as sacrificial lambs to show the road. They mourn them and they feel sorry for their families, but they see no reason for more foolishness. They have decided to make peace with those who they led an unjustifiable aggression against, and they are ready to apologize and correct this tragic mistake.

Other more stupid will say, “This will not calm the terrorists”, but how can they see the future? Why don’t other nations join Spain in her courageous move? Surly this should end this madness, as these people are not exactly mad, they are victims for the west’s greed and an obvious American attempt to occupy the whole world, and once they left alone, they might even turn to be our friends.

Surly there will be exceptions such as the 3rd. world, Israel and America, but America brought this on herself and she should deal with it alone, and Israel, well Israel have obviously no choice, so there’s nothing we can offer her other than our advice to do the same and open their eyes and ears and listen to the words of Hamas, Hizbullah and Al-Jihad. I wouldn't see an obstacle to peace then! The 3rd. world? The term alone should answer the question, they are the 3d world, and don’t get this wrong as those Spanish voters do sympathize with them, as they do with the Israeli, but still everyone should excuse them when they believe that their blood is more precious than that of the rest.

I’m sure that if the rest of the coalition countries follow the wise step of Spain, they’ll be safe and there’s absolutely no reason to make us believe that those ‘fighters’ will bother them again. These are sovereign nations with well demarcated and strongly protected borders, and all is needed, is to be nice to those fighters and further strengthen the borders to prevent illegal immigration and sneaking terrorists who might still doubt the honesty of Spain and other European countries.

And for the propaganda machines that give us a continuous headache about the possibility of some dictators getting WMDs and using or handing them to terrorist groups; it’s enough to say that this is not even possible within many years and when it happens, it wouldn’t amount to more than one or two nuclear bombs dropped over America or Israel most probably, and then the whole Islamic world would be wiped out of the map! So, "stop this nonsense let us live our lives and you deal with it". Some may add that there maybe many bombs and that there’s no guarantee that Europe will be safe, but that should be left for the next generations to deal with if it appears to be a real threat as Europe will be in peace with those people and there seems no logical reason for them to attack Europe as they seem to be people who think logically.

Congratulation again to the newly elected sensible government, to the newly crowned (and real) king of Spain; his royal majesty Osama Bin Laden and to the Spanish people for proving that they are a 'sovereign nation' and that they don’t submit to any outside pressure, not from the USA nor from any other…government.

Long live the King.

-By Ali.

OT:

This is a stunner -- long time New York Times' columnist William Safire admits to being oblivious on a scandalous level:

The New York Times
March 17, 2004

Scandal at the U.N.

By WILLIAM SAFIRE

The cover-up in the office of the U.N. secretary general of a multibillion-dollar financial fraud known as the Iraqi oil-for-food program is beginning to come apart.

The scandal has been brewing for years. The first I learned of it was in a New York Times Op-Ed article last April by the [Wall Street Journal] journalist Claudia Rosett charging that the U.N.'s secretive oversight of more than $100 billion in Iraqi oil exports and supposed humanitarian imports was "an invitation to kickbacks, political back-scratching and smuggling done under cover of relief operations."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Saddam's manipulation of the UN Oil-for-Food program was probably one of the worst kept secrets.  Am I misreading this, or is it the case that New York Times journalists only learn about the world events if they appear on the pages of their own publication?
 

Looks like Al-Qaeda has decided to use a little reverse psychology.

Wow ― whoever sent that letter sure has a head for politics. How much you wanna bet they monitor the Guardian and the Independent, and parrot their articles when releasing statements like this one?
Now the anti-Bush crowd can say “Look, just like we said! Leave Iraq and they'll stop hating us...”

I'm with Andrew (#19). This is probably the most ingenious anti-Bush tactic I've ever seen.

The terrorists have our politics figured out, and yet the West can't seem to grasp the simple truth about theirs.

but please don't throw me in that briar patch

#91 William

Finally! Writer's all over North America have been writing about this for a decade now. It's long past time someone woke up at the NYT.

As for the topic of this thread, I think Reuters was hacked for St. Paddy's Day.

fwiw

Amritas,

I tend to agree with you that the name Opheera McDoom is an al-reuters pseudonym. Almost every yahoo search hit that I saw was related to some reuters story or other, mostly out of Egypt or the Sudan (not quite all) and from 2003 or 2004. Except for 2: those were evite invitations which look spammish to large groups and opheera was among those who have not replied. The person (?) seems to have had no existence outside of al-reuters nor previous to 2003. I would have expected a hit from a college alumni association, or a university degree or a roadrace result or a journalism society or whatever, somewhere.

justdanny,

That one of the hits gave an al-reuters messaging e-address is less than conclusive: if its an al-reuters pseudonym, it should be expected that they create an electronic mailbox for it.

As for the letter itself, the actual existence of the abu-hamb brigade is itself not well established. it may be a single nutjob with a fax machine.

Wow, you Americans are lucky to have people like Kerry around!

OT,

paging Ed Moran :

Ocean-Effect snow streamers in eastern MAssachusetts, coming in off the Gulf of Maine! Too cool! :)

Muslims are busy with important things. What is the acceptable length of a beard?

[Link: www.arabnews.com...]

OT:
The annual PEW Research poll on attitudes to America.

[Link: people-press.org...]
[Link: people-press.org...]
$$$ = HATE. MORE $$$ = MORE HATE.

OT kind of

The following is an article printed in Commentary. It's one of the most powerful I've ever read. It's called

Betrayed by Europe: An Expatriate's Lament

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

It's written by a Jewish-American woman who moved to France over 30 years ago.

She writes about French Anti-Americanism,Anti-Semitism,political Islam on the march and French cowardice. There is so much here that it's hard to extract. Here is some of it but you have to read it all:

The Republic is under siege, and what are the French doing about it? They are trashing America. This, it seems, is their new Maginot line: the sneer of hatred. Hand in hand with the government and the intellectual classes, the French media are channeling the national dismay over lost grandeur into contempt for America.

For me, the monuments are crumbling. The glistening golden dome of Les Invalides. The chateaux and the triumphal arches, the obelisks...How can so much beauty cover such deep cowardice? I lash myself to the mast and close my senses to the sirens, while my heart rings with pride for "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

We are not free in France. I know the difference. I come from a free country. A rough and ready, clumsy, slapped together, tacky country where people say wow and gosh and shop at Costco. A country so vast I haven't the faintest idea where I would put myself. A homeland I would have liked to keep at a distance, visit with pleasure, and leave with relief. A native land I walked out on with belated adolescent insouciance. A foreign land where I was born because Europe vomited up my gandparents as it is now coughing up me and mine.

If only the accusations bandied about so mindlessly by the French talking heads were true: American imperialism, Washington's insatiable drive for hegemony, the Yankee need to dominate the world, and all the rest, the whole stars-and-stripes version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Just look at the American eagle spreading its wings, asserting its dominion: look at those sharp claws, that crafty eye, that hooked nose. If only it were true. Give me empire, my dear Yanks. come over here and colonize this place so that I can put my suitcases back on top of the closet, keep my swishes and furbelows, my fanfreluches, and baubles, my adopted family jewels and Continental airs, and live to a ripe old age here in the center of Paris, in the middle of nowhere.

#74:

Seriously, they must love Bush, as proof just look at how the amount of terrorism has vastly increased since 2000.

I have a rock to sell you that keeps tigers away. As proof, look at the number of tigers I've seen since I found it in the zoo parking lot eight years ago: ZERO!

I found another rock in the summer of 2001, on a gravel road in rural Wisconsin, but I threw that one away because it causes terrorist attacks.

-dg

#102:

I don't get that article when I click on your link. As a matter of fact, I don't even get Commentary.

This one should work better.

-dg

The link in my post #102 was wrong. Here , hopefully is the right one.

[Link: www.commentary.org...]

#45 Mr Conservative

Of the twenty-one words in your post, you've managed to misspell seven. What is it that you're trying to conserve? Neurons?

B. Rabbit and the briar patch?

terrorist writing note:

"this awwta really get um, a little revoise psychology!"

"Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck!!"

Its the same group that first claimed responsiblity in Madrid and later shown to have a tendancy towards illusions of grandeur in suggestions they too were responsible for the mass power blackout that hit here in Toronto and all down the North Eastern Seaboard of the US last summer.

Well, no doubt many Islamofascists are feeling a bit emboldened after Madrids loss to the Socialists.

That said, anyone who believes that a Kerry win will put an end to terrorism should be shot on sight for mere stupidity.

A little taste of power is not easily shut off!

#Motti

Betrayed by Europe: An Expatriate’s Lament

Great Piece...thank you!

Bush maybe a Crusader, but he's our Crusader!

We just don't know where we stand with these democratic/socialist secularists!

They might not want to play with us in the name of G-d and that's no fair!

/AQ

It's obvious from behavior on recent threads that many if not all troLLLs seem to think that voting for Bush is the same as 100% per cent support for everything Bush does. Not so. I think most of us are in the camp that on everything but the war and taxes, Bush basically sucks. We just think Kerry sucks worse in every conceivable dimension.

And I suspect that given the way you only hear troLLLs slam Bush, but never explain why Kerry's policies are better,... that they feel kinda the same way about Kerry.

#112 V the K

Isn't policitics always a case of better the devil you know?

And I thought Thulsa Doom was a pretty silly name, even for something like Conan the Barbarian (which is on late Friday night for Aussie viewers).

“Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps ... "

Well, if you've ever heard Kerry speak, that's entirely possible.

Death Toll Falls In Baghdad Hotel Bombing

OT, Some good news this morning, apparently there was some double-counting or "fog of war" at work in the reported death toll of the Baghdad hotel bombing. Current reports say 17 killed or even six, down from a reported 25 or 27 yesterday.

On topic, perhaps the National Press Club should invite Opheera McDoom to speak, so she can prove she really exists?

Reuters (and AP) Lied!   Not As Many People Died!

Opheera McDoom is a fictitious reporter!

Check out this item in arab news and the e-mail address given for the writer.
The Shame of It - Fawaz Turrki, disinherited@yahoo.com

Reverse psychology. nuff said.

Oops! Sorry for the empty anchor tag:

Current reports say 17 killed

Reuters, where psyOps is our business and journalism our hobby.

The saudis probably own this in some way. They know that all hell is about to break loose on them and their 'schools'.

They force boys to memorize the koran in arabic, and beat them until they get it right. No math, no writing, nothing but the koran.

They are producing the jihadis.

They must be stopped.

Also,

Bush loves America, sort of in an unconditional way.

Kerry, and the democrats loathe America. Their mission in life, their passion, is to change America into their socialist utopia. Which in reality is a nightmare of taxes and death.

abc (#121),

No math, no writing, nothing but the koran.

They are producing the jihadis.

Which produces some pretty damn stupid people doesn't it?

Breaking news:

Car bomb in Basra

Also, it appears that the Baghdad bombing could be a "work accident." Reports are that the massive car bomb exploded in the middle of the street, rather than closer to the hotel, if that was its intended target.

Of course, the Real Reason™ is that the new kinder and gentler Al Qaeda wants to lull everyone into a false sense of security by feigning tactical incompetence...

Unconfirmed reports say witnesses noticed a "Shiite Happens" bumpersticker on the vehicle prior to the premature explodulation. Experts say this was probably a mild attempt to provoke sectarian violence.
--
Opheera McDoom contributed to this report.

Car bomb in Basra

What I don't understand is, if the French and the Germans are so peace loving, and so loved by the religion of peace, why aren't they taking care of Iraqi security and rebuilding?

Then we wouldn't be having all these bombings due to their hatred of America.

123

Yep.

Mean, frustrated and dangerous too.

abc (#128),

True. Pretty simple to figure out ain't it? Which makes me wonder about those who feel they can be reasoned with. Especially if you know what taqiyah is.

OT--You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. Kofi Annan, who says former Spanish P.M. Aznar is resonsible for his own defeat, is part of the problem:

[Link: mathaba.net...]

Hold your nose for this stinker

U.S. Army Officers Say: 'Mossad May Blame Arabs'

#130 scaramouche

One needs to ask Kofi about his son and the "oil for food" program and see whats the problem.

U.S. out of the U.N.
U.N. out of the U.S.

Moroccan security services say the videotape in which al-Qaeda claims responsibility for the attacks in Madrid last week was almost certainly recorded in Brussels or Amsterdam. The man appearing as the terrorist network's military spokesman, Abu Duham al-Afghani, apparently hides out in radical Muslim circles in these two cities. The Moroccans say a hard core of radical Muslims has been living in Brussels since the 1980s. From there they have established a second base in Amsterdam.

My al-Reuters pen name is:

Ishat Ina Khalastumybag.

applause.

#134 pantat

But where do you find shoes to match your bag?

J.D. (#133),

Interesting. I know the other day Mr Pol mentioned them bringing in the Moroccans to help. Seems like they already have.

It also seems we know a lot about these groups. Did you see JohninLondon's link to the Captain Hook Crew?

Several Dead in Basra Bombing

The kicker?

The owner of the car that exploded had been seen parking the vehicle and walking away moments before the blast, according to witnesses. Residents detained him and handed him over to police.

#135 Kragar (proud to be Kafir)

LMAO!

Geepers (#136)

I didn't see it but read something else in the last several days that was similar. Lovely group, that.

OT
Have you seen anything about all this?

Could it be the heat really is on? Finally?

#138 papijoe

Thanks. I've been waiting for a while to use that one. For some reason, there aren't that many openings for colostomy humor.

#123   Geepers

It does tend to limit ones career options.

OT - Very Interesting 'chat'

Hanson (VDH) and Glasov

There is an exchange that I find hillarious where these two fine men, in clean cloths are talking so delicately about something so odious, so vile, so repugnant -- the American Left.

FP: Fair enough. But Mr. Hanson, I disagree with you when you say that the Left does not prefer monsters. Chomsky and Moore are not dying to move to Haiti or Syria. . .well yes, the Left has always been hypocritical on this level. But this is not just about silliness or some kind of dishonesty on their part. Throughout the 20th century leftist Western intellectuals worshipped Stalin, Mao and other mass killers. They went in droves to visit the communist concentration camps and they praised these societies while the killing fields were in their highest gear.

It is not just a coincidence that leftists venerate every despot that opposes the United States. The Left’s embrace of militant Islam today is just a logical continuation of Western intellectuals who travelled to Soviet Russia in the 1930s and worshipped Stalin -- and of Jane Fonda praising the North Vietnamese despots.

What I am getting at here is that there is a malicious and sinister objective within the heart of the Left. It craves totalitarianism, because totalitarianism will suffocate freedom and, ultimately, human life itself – which the Left hates the most. That every communist revolution ate its own children reveals a pernicious death wish in the heart of the Left, and I think it is very much in prominence once again in the War on Terror, in which the left is now in love with those despots who, once again, offer them the dream of extinguishing their own civil society and the freedom within it.

You find this interpretation to extreme?

Hanson: But we are talking about apples and oranges-on the one hand, hard-core, thuggish revolutionaries abroad who want power and all that it brings under the cynical aegis of "equality" and "social justice;" and on the other, mostly pampered intellectuals here at home at the trough of American splendor and luxury, in the manner of court jesters, jetting around trashing their alma mater.

Again, while there were a few deluded who really did cut sugar cane in Cuba, committed treason of sorts in Hanoi, and went down to idolize Daniel Ortega, most on the radical Left are really indistinguishable from most Americans in their patterns of consumption, tastes, jobs, etc.

So we are not confronted with Stalinists, hard-core Marxists, or fifth-columnists as much as those afflicted with the "Western disease"-a sort of glib self-hatred of the very society that imparts such freedom and affluence.

Of course we don't want to downplay the pernicious effects of such a malady. These fakers are serious and in fact pose our greatest challenge in the current struggle by unleashing a constant stream of negativism that encourages our enemies and weakens our resolve. The hysteria over the looting, the missing WMD, and the President's aircraft carrier landing--all that and more have clouded a stellar military victory and a largely successful effort so far to foster consensual government under impossible circumstances--something that 50 years from now we will look back on with awe.

The transmogrification of Islamofascists into the "other" is one of the most stunning developments in American intellectual history-but inexplicable apart from this postmodern, trendy left-wing dogma. We overlooked 25 years of continued terrorist assaults from November 1979 in Teheran to the USS Cole, in part because multiculturalism and cultural relativism were so entrenched that we dared not condemn as evil and wrong those creepy people who believed in gender apartheid, fundamentalism, autocracy, anti-intellectualism, and anti-Semitism, but instead romanticized or at least ignored them.

Ditto Arafat's Tunisian Mafia-and all the assorted Middle East manipulators who grasped that an NPR, New York Times columnist, ABC evening news lead-in, or Kennedy School of Government symposium would always prefer to hector Israeli self-defense, rather than suicide bombing, or scream over an American missed bomb rather than Taliban lynching, or looters in museums rather than Saddam's garrish destruction of Babylon.

So I am talking about a secular religion of anti-Americanism brought on by our very success that allows such utopianism and cheap caring-and it does weaken and tire our efforts to win this war.

A final example: the President has raised domestic spending by 8% per annum, lavished funds on health care and education, offered near amnesty to illegal immigrants from Mexico, appointed a plethora of minority judges, cabinet officials, and administrators, and committed more AIDs relief funds than all prior administrations put together-and is still hated by our Left, simply because his demeanor, accent, religion, and even appearance don't validate the aristocratic Left's rhetoric about sex, class, gender, and the other. It really is a make-believe world in which a Barbra Streisand, Gore Vidal, or Arianna Huffington cheaply sound off from their estates about some purported cosmic evil fostered by poor deluded Americans hooked on K-Mart and NASCAR.

OT Teresa Heinz's Tides Foundation has given money to CAIR

Simple.

Amall Ina Baazar.

,-). "Khalastami Shuwis" I think is where I get not only my facts but my shoes!

Usually I recieve faxes that alert me to all of these great sales, but strangely enough?...

Oh forget it, it must be tha truth!

J.D. (#139),

Some more interesting stuff from the Link Goddess. ;-)

Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf a few days ago visited NWFP where he addressed tribal elders and warned them that if any operation is prevented in tribal areas against al-Qaeda, Pakistan would face dire consequences from the wrath of the United States. But the dire consequences of Tuesday's operation left the Pakistani forces with no face-saving option - except denial. Despite the obvious fact that the Pakistani Army is stationed in tribal areas and has launched an operation, the Pakistan Army as an institution is still denying its involvement.

A hammer ain't no good if you don't have an anvil.

Should be interesting to see how this (spring offensive)plays out. There's definitely been some movement on the Pakistani side.

BTW, our resident bomb defuser said he's learning russian in his new home, so maybe?

129 Geepers

I don't guess you mean the little hat.

Taqiyah

In the early years of the Islamic conquest of the Arabian peninsula and in the Fatah (Arab-Islamic invasion and conquest of the upper Middle East and the outside world), a Muslim concept was devised to achieve success against the enemy (non Muslims), Al-Taqiyah. Al-Taqiyah, from the verb Ittaqu, means linguistically dodge the threat. Politically it means simulate whatever status you need in order to win the war against the enemy ...

It's all just a simulation, eh?

#132

>U.S. out of the U.N.
>U.N. out of the U.S.

Great!

xanthrope (#141),

LOL! I think they try to sell you on the retirement package. ;-)

OT

We already know that when mass terror comes to the US, it will be carried out by foreign-born Muslim men living in this country.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

A discarded box filled with terror-related books, manuals and literature was picked up yesterday by sanitation workers in Astoria, Queens - sparking concern of a local terrorism plot.

. . . The materials that sparked the alarm were left on the curb by the elderly owner of a three-story house on 36th St.

The landlord had evicted a tenant and was trashing his belongings. The tenant, a 46-year-old taxi driver from Pakistan, is now being sought for questioning, said police officials, who asked that the man's name be withheld.

"The whole matter is under investigation," Browne said.

I'd bet this is a bogus letter planted by the left. It reminds me of the letters from terrorist group "representatives" lamenting the US not signing the Kyoto Treaty. Yeah, I'm sure bin Laden is up nights over the environment.

The left is beyond lame. They can't even invent their own schemes. They have to hike one (supporting Spanish socialists = supporting terrorists) off of people almost as lame as they are.

I am a leftist raving moonbat.

OT: Unified Islamiat Syllabus for Schools (Daily Times, Pakistan)

Deputy parliamentary leader of the MMA Hafiz Hussain Ahmed asked why the Sura Toba was deleted from the books of Islamic Studies for higher classes. He was concerned by the deletion because the Sura urged Muslims to jihad.

OT: Police accosting couples in parks (Daily Times, Pakistan)

Police have launched a campaign to stop couples “behaving objectionably” in Racecourse Park, asking them how they are related and detaining them if they cannot show nikahnamas.

We are not harassing people, but we have to keep in mind this is an Islamic state. People lying in each other’s laps and hugging is very offensive to citizens who are there for a walk.

Asked what the police did if the “offending” coupes were indeed married, a duty officer at Racecourse police station said: “Married couples never do such things.”

OT: Islamic countries use religion to excuse rights abuses: Nobel laureate (AFP, Jakarta Post)

"Islam is the religion of equality and has no contradiction with the declaration of human rights," Ebadi told a seminar in the Indonesian capital.

#152 Baldy

Asked what the police did if the “offending” coupes were indeed married, a duty officer at Racecourse police station said: “Married couples never do such things.”

LOL!

Opheera McDoom--wasn't she Wonder Woman's nemesis?

#148 Geepers - But what do the girls get?

Feh - Why should I care ;)

Smit (#155),

Ya know I'm not quite sure, something like getting 20 boy and getting to be one of the shaheeds servants or something.

Anyway, it's definitely actionable as sex-discrimination.

another OT
PETA sickos equate eating meat with Holocaust

PETA campaign coordinator Matt Prescott said he was aware of the council's views, but added: "We are not willing to end the campaign." He said he himself was Jewish

Sure and I'm Whoopi Goldberg.

Senator Kerry has the power to save American lives. Please help urge him to do so:

An Appeal to Honor

Damn:
'Looking after' 20 boys and getting to be a servant?
Endlessly re-incarnated.
Go to heaven & play a harp.
Become one with the greater being.

There is so much diversity in the arena of afterlife options...

"The New York Times called the Spanish election "an exercise in healthy democracy." And an ATM withdrawal with a gun to your head is a "routine banking transaction."
...
Before he was put into office because he supported policies favored by al-Qaida terrorists, appeasement candidate Zapatero said: "I want Kerry to win." Kerry is also supported by North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, who broadcasts Kerry speeches over Radio Pyongyang with favorable commentary.

So now Kerry really does have two foreign leaders on record supporting him: a Socialist terrorist-appeaser and a Marxist mass murderer who dresses like Bea Arthur. "

[Link: www.townhall.com...]

papijoe (#57),

PETA is whacked. Check this out:

Mel Gibson's blockbuster hit "The Passion of the Christ" had been a subject of controversy before it was even released, but now a new protest has arisen that is not so obvious.

Animal rights activist group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals are protesting The Passion. Not because of the violence in the film, or even any violence against animals in it (there isn't any). Not because of allegations of anti-Semitism or biblical or historical accuracy. No, the protest is due to the fact that Gibson owns a beef cattle ranch in Columbus, Mont.

PETA says that Gibson, a devout Catholic is hypocritical for participating in the beef industry. "If Gibson wants his audience to contemplate the awfulness of inflicting suffering on the innocent, he should show his own animals some mercy," a PETA representative complained to MSNBC.

PETA Protests 'Passion'

OT: Good News, For a Change Haaretz: Israel's Economy Improving

Israel's economic recovery had begun in the second half of 2003, mainly thanks to reduced government debt and lower interest rates. Moody's believes that during 2004, Israel's GDP per capita will increase for the first time in two years, from $17,000 to $17,600, he said. The agency believes that under (Finance Minister) Netanyahu's stewardship, the government can lead the economy to growth of 2.5-3.5 percent in 2004.

I quibble with the last sentence. Government never "leads" economic growth. Growth happens when the Government gets out of the way.

Of course Osama wants Bush to be re-elected. He needs a "tough-talking" enemy.

Who was less popular in the Muslim world? Bush or Clinton? The less popular a US-President is amongst moderate Muslims, the better for Osama in his theory.

#161 Geepers

I love animals and I hope I don't offend any animal lovers on this site, but there is no way you can equate the life of an animal with the life of a human. I'm ok with preventing blatant abuse of animals, but I question anyone who spends too much time on animal rights when so many humans are suffering.

Berliner (#163),

But I thought islam is the religion of peace?

papijoe (#164),

They've truly run out of worthy causes. Now they're just a parody.

My bogus meter is showing at 99% and pegged, but in case that 1% comes up id say its a really lame attempt at reverse psychology. Hope the mullahs kick thier ass for going against islams tenant about drinking.

#165 Geepers

Is Christianity a religion of peace?

OT: Nice article on the myth of the "Moderate Muslim".

Berliner (#168),

Do Christians make a habit out of screaming "God is Great" just before they set off the 20lbs of Semtex wrapped in nails, attempting to kill as many people as possible?

#169 WriterMom McNo-way-thats-a-real-name

My trouble with the mentioned Boykin is that he called the US-army a "Christian Army" (google will confirm it).

Do people on here agree with this "Christian Army"? What about separation of Church and State then?

And the article's conclusion that all moderate Muslims see war against Infidels as their holy duty seems odd - What about Mohammed Ali, as the easiest example? Or does he not count?

Do Christians make a habit out of screaming "God is Great" just before they set off the 20lbs of Semtex wrapped in nails, attempting to kill as many people as possible?

I don't think the catholic IRA ever used Semtex or screamed "God is Great" before their deeds, but yes, the nails fit and Christianity's name has been misused not only during the Crusades, but also recently for bad deeds.

Of course it's not just religion with the IRA, but a cultural thing, just like for the Arabs as well. It's fanatic minds misusing religion to commit brutal violence against civilians to further their political goals.

Hamas says it could stop attacks against Israel after Gaza pullout

If and when Israel pulls out, it must be clear that it's not because of Hamas' promises. The terrorists must never be allowed to dictate the terms--to punish, as they did in Spain, for acting against their interests or reward for towing their line. Aside from Hamas promises being less than worthless, the totaliterrorists have neither the authority nor the power to dhimmify us. (Unless, of course, we give them permission, a la Spain.)

#173 scaramouche 

The announcement of the pullout revealed well the dishonesty of Hamas.

They don't accept the Palestine authority, but immediately engage in a vain powerstruggle with them over who will have power over Gaza, when Israel has moved out.

maybe there is a way to condemn this as an illegal land grab or a blood for oil situation
Kosovo occupation

I can't believe that Iraq is illegal, while Kosovo is somehow, I kinder, gentler, peacekeeping mission

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

Berliner,

Very few people here want to see an established Christian theocracy...but when Jerry Falwell runs his mouth off, millions of lefties scream bloody murder. The threat of Christian extremism is contained by the rest of Western society. With Islam, the moderate Muslims keep their heads down and the left supports the extremism with all their psycho babble root cause hooey. So while there exists..in theory...a Christian threat...it is the Islamist one that is a problem NOW.

We are not such dolts that we can not consider history - the inquisition, crusades, yada, yada, yada. But that consideration does squat all in helping us face the threat we are dealing with today.

And one thing that many of us have done - that I ask -have you - is actually read Islamic texts. Just because Christianity and Islam have some things in common does not make them exactly the same.

WE can see the grey areas. Can you?

#172 Berliner - edited to make sense:

I don't think the {predominantly}Catholic IRA ever used Semtex {yes they did} or screamed "God is Great" {why would they, they ain't Muslim} before their deeds, but yes, the nails fit {the hat does not fit} and Christianity's name has been misused not only during the Crusades, but also recently for bad deeds. { these mythical modern Christian terrorists cannot point to the Bible to justify murder - without mainstrean Christianity pointing & laughing, or shunning them }

Of course it's not just religion nationalism with the IRA, but a cultural power trip thing, just like for the Arabs Basques as well. It's fanatic minds misusing religion to commit brutal violence against civilians to further their political goals.

This story is all over Israeli news.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Security forces revealed Thursday that they foiled terrorist plans to hijack two buses in the Efrat area, and force them to drive to the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where the passengers were to be held hostage until Israel succumbed to the terrorists' demand to release Palestinian security prisoners.

The proposed abduction was to have been accomplished by two suicide bombers, who were to have boarded the buses and threatened to blow themselves up if their demands were not met.

According to the plan, if Israel failed to release the prisoners, the church was to be blown up together with its inhabitants.

Blowing up churches and commuters -- an Islamofascists wet dream.

#171 berliner

Can you provide a link where he says the US Army is a Christian army? As far as I know the US was founded on Judeo-Christian values, but I don't remember reading about their army being Christian-they have always welcomed troops of all colour and religion into their army under the umbrella of their American identity.

And where does Mohhamed Ali come into the picture? Are you saying he's a moderate Muslim? How is he related to the discussion? Do you have any links that show his thoughts or opinions on 'jihad' and 'itjihad', on Osama bin Laden et al or the Arab-Israeli conflict? Just because he lives in America doesn't mean he's a moderate.

The news that Al Queda is calling a truce with Spain as a result of pleasing election results, is predictably nowhere to be found in the Spanish media. Could you imagine if the US Media Industrial Complex got together and buried such an important story? It's Orwellian.

Berliner (#172)

Bringing up the Crusades?

Yeah, I'm all tanked up over the Christian Crusaders defeat at Ibn-Isbu in 1305, I think I'll go beat up a muslim.

Here's a deal, starting from today I'll bet you 10:1 on Christian vs. muslim car/suicide/backpack bombings, no death tolls, just the number of attacks. Any stakes you want.

# 171,

Mohammed Ali, as in the Pasha of Egypt? He waged plenty of wars.

OT but this little nugget was good news from the Basra car bomb story:

In Basra, a city in southern Iraq that is patrolled by British military forces, a man parked a car in the central part of the city just outside a hotel. The man walked away moments before the vehicle exploded, but residents detained him and handed him over to police.

Way to go Iraqis!

I wonder if Opheera is a distaff relation of Victor Von Doom...

A 100-foot diameter asteroid will pass within 26,500 miles of Earth on Thursday evening, the closest-ever brush on record by a space rock, NASA astronomers said.

Too bad we can't see it in the US ...

#180 writermom

Google has more than 500 hits Boykin's comment:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Here is just one of those countless:

[Link: www.biblicalrecorder.org...]

We are not such dolts that we can not consider history - the inquisition, crusades, yada, yada, yada. But that consideration does squat all in helping us face the threat we are dealing with today.

True, it is. Just wanted to make sure that we are seeing grey here on our own religion's past and not just b/w. *g*

Though I do have a indeed a problem that representative people on "our" side, like this Boykin, make talk like "Christian Armies" and of "Satan" which must be fought by us.

And one thing that many of us have done - that I ask -have you - is actually read Islamic texts.

Well, I have seen all those bloody, violence-calling texts, sure. Both from Koran and the Bible. Lovely, no? (There was even an episode in West Wing, where President Bartlett recites all those Bible-passages)

#188 Berliner

That post, and most of your others, leaves me with just one question: And?

Now I return you to your regularly scheduled GAZE.

#164 papijoe

#161 Geepers

I love animals and I hope I don't offend any animal lovers on this site, but there is no way you can equate the life of an animal with the life of a human. I'm ok with preventing blatant abuse of animals, but I question anyone who spends too much time on animal rights when so many humans are suffering.

There's two (conflicting) theories on this:

1) It's just too hard to actually do "real work" like protest or work to correct abuses done by lunatic dictators to people who are truly innocent. That would mean finding out what's happening in the world around them, why it's happening, what the issues are, what the hidden issues are, and so forth. It's much easier to point to a chick, rabbit, or other fuzzy, cuddly creature and say "Oh isn't it so horrid that this poor creature is made to suffer?" For this theory, I say ship 'em NYC/Boston/Washington DC rats and cockroaches, and let them deal with these poor creatures.*

* I mean the actual rodents, not the two-legged variety ;)

2) They believe humanity is the root of all evil, they hate that they are of the species homo sapien, and that any other living organism is that much better than we are. Personally, adherants of this believe should fly themselves to some remote location of the ME, and either splodeydope themselves, or get the locals to help 'em - far away from US! >:)

Never forget, there was only one nation (that I know about) that held animals to the same level as Humans (and vice versa!): Germany, circa 1939-1945.

Feh. Bloody morons, nonetheless :)

/s/

Lysander

#187 berliner

When I opened your link, there was a quote that says this:

Boykin has said that radical Islamists hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation;" has described the U.S. Army as "a Christian army;" and has said that President Bush was appointed by God "for such a time as this."

But if you notice-it says "has said" and "has described" and "has said". In other words, these are not direct quotes and have no source listed.

It's subtle but there is a difference. Do you have the actual places where he said those things?

Are you really from Berlin? Certainly more evil was done by the German army in the name of God. Is that why you are upset about this?

Is it wrong that the General is a believing Christian?

#187, Berliner. You got a problem with religion? What is the problem?

WriterMom

Berliner's comments are valid as much as that makes you squirm. Boykin's statements were untimely and not true. My father was in the military and he was not christian.

Are you really from Berlin? Certainly more evil was done by the German army in the name of God. Is that why you are upset about this?

This is an unecessary and underdeveloped thought.

#168 Berliner

Name some of the bad things Christians have done recently, that are as horrible as 9/11, or the Spanish train bombings. And, no, The Crusades don't count, and neither does the Spanish Inquisition; they happened centuries ago.

You know, all those Southern Baptists blowing up trains, all those Serbian Orthodox Christians, steering planes into office buildings, all the "Young Crusader Knights" who go around, studying the Bible all day, just like young Moslems in Madrassas study the Koran, and saying they want to restore the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, and restore the royal house of Godefroi de Bouillon. . .

/Okay, sorry, sarcasm button off.

I have to agree with Geepers; I don't think you're gonna find many current ones. The IRA I give you, but I think a lot of that is as much---or more---Irish resentment of the English as it is Catholic v. Protestant. And Jerry Falwell is a blowhard---but, really, I think that's all he is. No way is he in the same, deadly league as Snakey Bin-Ladin, and Saddam Hussein, who had murdered more Moslems than the bloodiest Crusader, on the bloodiest day of the crusades, ever did.

berliner,

Boykin was roundly criticized, but I'm sure you know that.

As far as scripture goes, proof texting passages is a wonderful past time. But it doesn't a coherent theology make.

We can play passage for passage game between the Quran and Bible but the serious question is what is the mainstream theology teaching today? The whole kit and kaboodle, not just isolated passages here and there. (I realize it makes you feel all soft and fuzzy inside to tell yourself we are all equally good and bad, but I have to inform you - it isn't true.)

Mainstream Christianity bases it current teachings on the NT...and much of mainstream Christianity has disavowed the whole notion of textual infallbility...making a literally rendering obsolete. Mainstream Islam, however, deals with the whole Quran as well as the hadith (Do you know what the hadith are? If not please educate yourself and stop attempting to lecture those of us who may, in fact, know more than you.) Mainstream Islamic teachings *on a macro level* are a whole different ball of wax than modern Christianity. It is more than isolating passages in a book.

TalkinKamel

No way is he in the same, deadly league as Snakey Bin-Ladin, and Saddam Hussein, who had murdered more Moslems than the bloodiest Crusader, on the bloodiest day of the crusades, ever did.

Actually Saddam was secular.

#193, Jack Frost. In my hand is my grandfathers belt buckle from his army days. I says "Gott Mit Uns", My fathers and mine are just plain brass. My grandfathers buckle held his pants up and affirmed his faith. Mine and my fathers buckles served equally well at keeping our pants up.

Berliner,

In writer moms original link, the 'money' paragraph was the last one:

Army officials decided that the gathering met Department of Defense directives and Army regulations.

Religion of any faith is a big part of the military. The US military is not an atheist organization. DOD is responsible and funds military religious programs, big time.

Even at Fort Bragg where Boykins made his remakes there is a new worship center that includes a Muslim faith area.

#193 Jack Frost

Berliner's comments are valid as much as that makes you squirm. Boykin's statements were untimely and not true. My father was in the military and he was not christian

Berliner's comments aren't making me squirm-but then again, neither do Boykin's.

And, my point about the American army was precisely that it is open to Americans of all religions-not just Christians.

#191 writermom

But if you notice-it says "has said" and "has described" and "has said". In other words, these are not direct quotes and have no source listed.

It was said by him in June 2002 at First Baptist Church of Broken Arrow, he was wearning his uniform and there are over 500 Google-references to it and not one denial, also with reactions by Army people to it. You might as well question anything ever reported, unless you personally heard it.

Are you really from Berlin? Certainly more evil was done by the German army in the name of God. Is that why you are upset about this?

Yes, I am German. How creative - now what would a criticism against a German be without a Nazi-reference?

Do the Iraqis already know that they won't be allowed to critisize Americans the next 60 years without being reminded how they once had horrible Saddam and that they should better be quiet? Is this what liberation is about?

Listen, aside from the historic fact that Hitler was actually a Godless man, that even some priests landed in concentration camps and that I am very thankful that US-troops protected my city for 40 years: If anything, then having such a past is a moral responsibility of pointing out potential injustices against religious groups in its complete entirety. Not all Muslims are out for to kill infidels and our Armies shouldn't be called "Christian", as this smacks of exclusion.

#196 Jack Frost

Actually Saddam was secular.

Yes. That's why he added "Allah Akbar" to the Iraqi flag in 1991.

Berliner,

Even at Fort Bragg where Boykins made his remakes there is a new worship center that includes a Muslim faith area.

Too early, too much bad green beer...

What I meant to say was:

Even at Fort Bragg where GEN Boykin made his remarks there is a new worship center that includes a Muslim faith area.

Anyways, you bring up some good points...and I remember you came here after the 'Speigel' poll adventure. I think we even exchanged a few post back then.

There are a couple of other Germans who post here all the time so its good to have a your perspective.

#168 berliner
Here are some thoughts from the eminent historian Bernard Lewis.

Jihad is sometimes presented as the Muslim equivalent of the Crusade, and the two are seen as more or less equivalent. In a sense this is true -- both were proclaimed and waged as holy wars for the true faith against an infidel enemy. But there is a difference. The Crusade is a late development in Christian history and, in a sense, marks a radical departure from basic Christian values as expressed in the Gospels. Christendom has been under attack since the seventh century, and had lost vast territories to Muslim rule; the concept of a holy war, more commonly, a just war, was familiar since antiquity. Yet in the long struggle between Islam and Christendom, the Crusade was late, limted, and of relatively brief duration. Jihad is present from the beginning of Islamic history -- in scripture, in the life of the Prophet, and in the actions of his companions and immediate successors. It has continued throughout Islamic history and retains its appeal to the present day.

-- Bernard Lewis, The Crisis of Islam.

#195 snopes

We are not that far apart actually. And of course you are right about some of the differences you pointed out.

Boykin does scare me though. While his statements were critizised, he nonetheless said it and has it in his mind. And along with being a high Pentagon-advisor, he is a man of influence.

I suppose this plays a bit into the direction, that while we all here agree on WOT, that the US does have the danger of running this into a Christianity vs. Islam issue, also with all its own radical Christian background. (Radical from the European view - and well aware that Americans view us as spineless Atheists, I know :-) )

#200 berliner

Thanks for letting me know where those comments were made. Like I said, I'm not really too bothered by them because I know that the US army is not at all exclusionary.

Just as a side note-have you noticed what religion the US soldiers are who have recently been tried for treason/spying etc?

I'll give you a hint...they are not Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Jain or Zoroastrian.

You flatter me by suggesting it's "creative" to bring up a Nazi reference with Germany. That seems completely reasonable to me. How old are you? What did your daddy or grandfather do in the war? What's the big deal?

As far as Hitler being godless-maybe rethink that. Nazi propaganda was not divorced of the idea that they were doing holy work. God is mentioned a lot in letters from soldiers and in Nazi propaganda.

And IMHO opinion, Germans not be criticizing America for at least the next 60 years, too.

Make that Germans should not be criticizing America for at least the next 60 years, too.

#204 Berliner
Gen. Boykin speaks for himself, not for the US government, and certainly not for the coalition that needs to be formed to resist jihadi Islamism.
He is as entitled to freedom of speech as anyone.

This coalition, IMO, needs to include Christians, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists, Jews, animists (as are many of the victims in the Sudan), and those Muslims who choose to join in opposition to the terrorists.

This resistance should not be a Crusade, and it isn't. It needs to include a variety of people of various faiths, as well as secularists.

It is not necessary that all of the coalition agree on everything. What is essential is that they are willing to oppose jihadi Islam.

#205 writermom

Just as a side note-have you noticed what religion the US soldiers are who have recently been tried for treason/spying etc?

Yes, I find that troubling, too. Not sure what to make of it. The evidence was solid? Were there any sententing yet, I haven't followed that?

How old are you? What did your daddy or grandfather do in the war? What's the big deal?

I am born in the 60s and here you are, grilling me already about my grandfater, but playing it down "what's the big deal?"

How many people did you ask online lately what their grandfathers did? :-) (I may tell you if you are really interested - though sadly nothing spectacular either way)

And IMHO opinion, Germans not be criticizing America for at least the next 60 years, too.

You have the same opinion which the communist Soviet Union enforced in East-Germany for 40 years and it were US-troops that risked their lives so that I may critizise even those US-troops, if I wanted to - because this was the one big difference between USSR and USA and between obedient slaves and free people.

Shame on you for even suggesting that. That is not the American spirit I have grown to like.

She must be related to Olden McGroin

#202 John Gibbon

nd I remember you came here after the 'Speigel' poll adventure. I think we even exchanged a few post back then.

That's me indeed. Though it could be anyone, as there seem no way of protecting one's nick here?

There are a couple of other Germans who post here all the time so its good to have a your perspective.

I heard the name "Hans ze Beerman". Been to his website since - seems a bit like an impressionable young man, first seduced by the German media propaganda, and after a while, seduced by the Littlegreenfootballs-Propag...ehm, alright. *g*

#208 Berliner,

Are you former East or West German? Just curious.

#211 John Gibbon

Are you former East or West German? Just curious.

West. West-Berlin.

#208 berliner

Ha ha! First time in my life I've been compared (called?) a communist. You made my day...that was so funny!

I don't think asking about a grandfather's is a particular German thing with me, and I've already put 'out there' that one of mine escaped the Czar's army in Russia.

By the way-I'm not American!

Fun chatting with you.

PS: Those soldiers that I mentioned. They were Muslim.

Berliner:

EE, in number 207, is right; Boykin is speaking for himself, not for for the U.S. Military, which is still made up of all different religious denominations. Christians are flawed, sometimes foolish people, just like everybody else; they shoot their mouths off, they sometimes even put on their tinfoil hats, or their A---hats! But that doesn't mean that they are taking over the government. There certainly doesn't seem to be any movement in that direction. George Bush is Christian, but he's bent over backwards (sometimes too far, in my opinion), to be nice to Moslem groups such as CAIR.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be a tendency to turn this conflict into a Christian-v-Islam war---but, if you'll notice, all the talk about "Crusaders", and "Reclaiming Al-Andalus", and "First the Saturday people (Jews), then the Sunday people (Christians)," is coming from the Islamic side! It's not coming from the Christian side, though, unfortunately, if it keeps up, we may have to become more "Crusader", at least in the sense of courage and steadfastness (not pushing our religion on other people) lest we all be made into Dhimmis. But it's Islamofacism that wants the Crusades back, not the Christians!

Jack Frost---I think Saddam's real religion was the worship of himself, Saddam the glorious, ruler of Iraq! When it was opportune for him to seem secular, he was secular. When it was more advantageous for him to pose as champion of Islam, he did just that. Whatever worked. And he did kill more Moslems than just about anybody else, except, possibly, the Mongols. The Crusaders were mere pikers compared to him!

The Al Qaeda press release is a classic propaganda campaign.

It's really as simple as a schoolyard trick. They think that if we think they think Kerry is tougher, we will vote Kerry, and then they will be happy because they'd rather have Bush, though they do not admit it.

Opheera McDoom.

What the hell?

Well, me laddy. And hooo else will ye be expecting on St. Patrick's day? Mmm?

/Irish jig in the background...

coming to this late (minor equine emergency), but:

Jaffar- gratitude for crossing blades with me yesterday, it was very stimulating. i've had to patch some holes in my belief edifice and do some research--

re: dhimmis and kufrs-- in the origins of islam (remember, islam is founded on judaism and christianity), mohammed vastly enjoyed learned debate with the great jewish and christian scholars of the time-- at times the faiths even shared places of worship (karen armstrong, the history of god). at some point mohammed's teachings were rejected. altho the qu'run is supposed to be the uncreated, revealed word of god, mohammed's personal hurt feelings do color some of the verses.

as for the other dreadful tribal hangover stuff, that is not part of islam, but part of the culture of men. african and south american tribal societies practiced clitoral mutilation. did you read my essay on "Y-not" that i emailed? it is supposed to be funny, but a surprising (well, maybe not) number of people find my scientist humour slightly offensive.

all religions evolve adaptive strategies to acquire converts (not neccessarily proselytizing, thanks, scaramouche). some strategies become more successful over time than others. don't mistake me, it is our serious obligation as members of the meta-genome homosapiens to wipe the whabbists off the face of the earth (extinction of this branch of islam). we just have to figure out the best way to do it. demonizing islam is not helpful, understanding it is. i think bush and blair are employing the only workable solution, essentially the denial of converts.

#81 i've been following the oil-for-food scandal for a while now, therese raphael had a fine article in the WSJ opinion journal shortly after gossart's. i am still waiting for some rabid attack dog journalist to rip kerry up over this vis a vis his foreign policy positions. why is this taking so long to percolate into Big Media? should be good sport when it finally happens.

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

Ha ha! First time in my life I've been compared (called?) a communist. You made my day...that was so funny!

No, didn't call you a communist. Only that your attitude on Free Speech for Germans was like that of the Soviet Union. And you're welcome.

By the way-I'm not American!

Oh. Fooled me. Well, nobody is perfect, I guess. From?

And yes, I knew they were Muslim - and was curious if any trials yet ended (but I suppose I had heard since from it)

A truce is temporary, not permanent.

#218 berliner

OK-Let me rephrase...that's the closest I've ever come to being called a communist. Still LMAO.

And I'm Canadian and taking my American loving self to the gym now. Catch up with you all later.

#214 TalkinKamel

Unfortunately, there does seem to be a tendency to turn this conflict into a Christian-v-Islam war---but, if you'll notice, all the talk about "Crusaders", and "Reclaiming Al-Andalus", and "First the Saturday people (Jews), then the Sunday people (Christians)," is coming from the Islamic side!

But it's Islamofacism that wants the Crusades back, not the Christians!

True, and I am aware that that it's the terrorists who try to spark some Crusade vs. Jihad fight.

But it's not on "our" side not just Boykin who seem to share that perception - Bush once slipped also an unfortunate "Crusade"-remark in AFAIK and when reading on Freerepublic, I find a ton of arguments in that direction - and also how Europeans are doomed in this fight against Islam cause we are degenerated atheists. (I know that freerepublic is just another site, but they are a strong, growing and determined movement and IMO representative of the the conservative mood in the US)

#212 Berliner,

So your nick fits well. I've been to 'West' Berlin many times before and after the Wall came down.

As a teen my dad and I used to go over to the 'East' side and do some major buying on a very illegal exchange rate. (miessen china and Ziess lenses)

I kind or prefer the old West Berlin. As an Island of Democracy, it was party central! You could be at a bar and have many different allied nationalities hanging out.

How's reunification treating ya?

Regarding the ongoing religious debate on this thread, I really think that everyone should just give it up.

in LGF, and for the past three years that I have been reading and posting here, Christians and Christianity has often been treated like Islam. There are many occasions here where Christianity was attacked by reciting Islamic references as legitimate sources (Today it’s a retard reciting the West Wing as a source) . I wont bother asking why, but in a world and perhaps a universe where the ONLY friend to the Jewish state and its people is a powerful Christian country it is amazing to me how Jewish paranoia of Christianity is still predominant among jews today (in LGF’s case its former liberal Jews).

It is utterly ironic to me that the advocacy and propagation of socialism in the early part of the last century by mostly Jewish scholars has led to the genocide of its people. But still, everyone fails to see how socialism today is the root cause of all anti-Semitism.

Every time someone mentions something anti-Semitic in the Islamic world, there is always an asshole who starts the whole “Don’t forget about Christianity and Hitler” routine. Hitler wasn’t even a Christian, and if anyone bother’s to read Christ’s teachings will understand that when he called to “love thy neighbor” and “turn the other cheek” he didn’t make JEWS an exception.

You know, if my wonderful and beautiful wife wasn’t Jewish, I would’ve lost any hope of finding a level-headed jew in this world.

Bottom line is that there are two things you don’t criticize if you want to be a friend with someone, Religion and Family

Keep that in mind when making new friends or most importantly for this debate, keeping the ones you already have.

#217 debriefed

in the origins of islam (remember, islam is founded on judaism and christianity)

I'm an atheist, so I don't really have an investment in the truth value of this statement, but I've read articles that contradict this assessment -- instead, asserting that Islam's origins were fundamentally pagan, and merely dressed up with the trappings of the two major monotheistic religions.

The earliest Christians were Jewish, and Christianity certainly arose directly from Judaism.

Mohammad was neither Jewish nor Christian. I'm not really sure what his religious beliefs were before he decided that G-d was talking to him, but I'm pretty sure his father was a pagan.

And I'm VERY sure that other posters on this site could help you out with additional info. regarding this, if you care.

whew, alot happened while i was gone--

writer-mom and berliner-- isn't is true that hitler was actually a pagan? (ref. the aryan myth, the science of the swastika, nazis and the occult) he used the christian god when it suited him surely, he was nearly as opportunitistic as kerry about his beliefs.

islam never achieved the separation of church and state that christianity came to. if it is true that there are christians that no longer base their faith on the exact literal wording of the [tranlated] bible, i have yet to number them among my acquaintences. i would love to acqire them. this blog is rich with empirical data (that's a good thing).

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

RayA:

please, i don't criticize or judge, you missed my earlier post on how i condemn no religion, but study all.

Lewis:
if you read karen Armstrong's excellent book, she explains the origins of the Big Three, and they all go back to pagan roots. islam is especially tribalistic because of the difficult environmental issues the arabs dealt with.

i am only comparing religions, not implementation of religions. i hope i am a good scientist and do not interject my own religious bias into the debate. can any of you lgfs name my religion?

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

#221 Berliner
Hi Berliner, nice to see you back.

But it's not on "our" side not just Boykin who seem to share that perception - Bush once slipped also an unfortunate "Crusade"-remark in AFAIK and when reading on Freerepublic, I find a ton of arguments in that direction - and also how Europeans are doomed in this fight against Islam cause we are degenerated atheists. (I know that freerepublic is just another site, but they are a strong, growing and determined movement and IMO representative of the the conservative mood in the US)

Couple of sematic points on the word "crusade", it's in pretty common usage as a term for a noble cause without the historical connotations. Also, the Crusades were instigated to regain territory that was lost to Islam, whereas jihad is designed to gain new territory for Dar al-Islam
To us, it's not so much atheism that's the problem with Europe, there are many here who are atheists or agnostics. It's the moral relativism that seems to make it almost impossible to make a principled stand on issues. It then leads to moral equivalency such as we saw today in an piece about PETA where they were comparing eating meat to the Holocaust.
For a more realistic look at what American Christians aspire to be, read about Scott Elliot's parents

AOL is running a poll next to the following article:

Terror Group Says Britain Could Be Next

Madrid Bombing

The Islamic militant group that claimed responsibility for last week's Madrid train bombings has warned its next target could be Britain.

An Arabic newspaper, Al-Quds al-Arabi, said on its Web site that it received a statement from "The Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri (al-Qaida)" in which the group reiterated its responsibility for the March 11 attacks.

The group also said it was calling a truce to give the newly elected Spanish government time to carry out its pledge to withdraw troops from Iraq, according to the statement.

Then, in a chilling warning, it listed its next potential targets.

"Our brigades are getting ready now for the coming strike,'' the statement said.

"Whose turn will it be next? Is it Japan, America, Italy, Britain, Saudi Arabia or Australia?"

The statement warned that "the brigades of death are at your doors,'' adding that they would strike "with an iron hand at the right time and place"...

The poll:

Have Tony Blair's Policies Made Us Safer?

Vote now:
Has Tony Blair made us safer?

Yes
69

No
536

Not sure
13

Total Votes:
618

As the terror group behind last week's Madrid bombings threatens Britain, have Tony Blair's policies on the War on Terror and Iraq improved our security or have they made us a bigger target?

The Prime Minister says invading Iraq and standing shoulder to America is making us safer in an increasingly dangerous world. What do you think? Vote now in our poll.

The poll seems to allow multi-voting but it's moving very quickly against.

#222 John Gibbon

How's reunification treating ya?

Berlin still has a lot of the "rundown" charme it used to have, but it's slowly becoming more rare.

Like other big cities in the world. You know, a damn Starbucks at every corner in renovated downtown (and God knows why, but also tourists flock into these things instead of going to local places). ;-)

if it is true that there are christians that no longer base their faith on the exact literal wording of the [tranlated] bible, i have yet to number them among my acquaintences.

That's insane. Any rational Christian accepts that the Bible was not originally written in English, contains error or uncertainty in the translation of certain passages, and that the version he/she is reading contains differences - both from translation problems and from corruption or omission - of versions produced in antiquity.

Islamic dogma, OTOH, insists that Allah spoke to Mohommed in Arabic, and that the Koran contains, word for word, the literal message of the deity.

#229 Berliner,

Like other big cities in the world. You know, a damn Starbucks at every corner in renovated downtown (and God knows why, but also tourists flock into these things instead of going to local places). ;-)

I got hooked on dark brewed coffee made in Germany. Starbucks is the closest thing to it here.

I believed they called it Kuchen Kaffee (forgive the spelling)

#230 Lewis Can't Lose
This literalism, which is mainstream in Islam, is near the heart of the problem. As a Canadian, who is of the Muslim faith and interested in reform, wrote:

The road forward...give the desert a run for its money by unleashing multipe interpretations of Islam

She is referring to what she calls desert Islam.

And near the end of her book:

Will we [Muslims] move past the superstition that we can't question the Koran? By openly asking where its verses come from, why they're contradictory, and how they can be differently interpreted, we're not violating anything more than tribal totalitarianism.

And the result of this literalism which mainstream Islam seems bonded to?

As I view it, the trouble with Islam is that lives are small and lies are big. Totalitarian impulses lurk in mainstream Islam.

--Irshad Manji, The Trouble with Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith.

#227 papijoe

It then leads to moral equivalency such as we saw today in an piece about PETA where they were comparing eating meat to the Holocaust.

Ok. But PETA is not European-originated. And they should be publically spanked for their nonsense.

Let's also not forget that they care in the Israeli/Palestine conflict apparently mostly about donkeys being used for suicide-bombs or about cats which are chased away (the horror! ;-) by Israeli bulldozers, as one can read in letter to Arafat

Someone give these people a reality check!

For a more realistic look at what American Christians aspire to be, read about Scott Elliot's parents

Sad. Makes it difficult for me to say something on this directly.

As I read, some people in that thread already made a bit of differentiation between proselytizing and doing charity. (they doing the latter)

Not that anyone's death isn't to be mourned, not the point: But for the first - the classic "missionary" as in "being on a mission to convert", there is also always the question behind it in exactly how far and with what measures should we as Western Christian democracies should go to turn the rest of the world to our beliefs. And where we should tolerate others to be like they are.

#233 Berliner
A word that comes to mind in describing desert Islam is intolerance. It's what sparks jihad.
A fight against intolerance can't be itself grounded in intolerance, can it?

To prevent this resistance to militant Islam from being misrepresented, I would like to see a closer connection to India. The Hindus are being victimized by jihadi terrorists, and would be amenable to a closer tie to the US, I think. Now what would Usama or his associates say to that? How could he represent the resistance as being a Crusade?

#233 Berliner

Not that anyone's death isn't to be mourned, not the point: But for the first - the classic "missionary" as in "being on a mission to convert", there is also always the question behind it in exactly how far and with what measures should we as Western Christian democracies should go to turn the rest of the world to our beliefs. And where we should tolerate others to be like they are.

The Eliotts were clearly doing "good works", and that is actually a passive form of evangelism. Who would voluntarily join a faith that didn't practice charity and concern for others?
A while ago a poster here (wish I remembered who) pointed out that Christians are called to share the Gospel, but it it up to the listener to decide. True Christians don't convert anyone. This is in stark contrast to Islam where conversion is the option to avoid either death or relegation to a humiliating second class status known as dhimmitude.

My #228

:)

Berliner (#233)

And the bozos at PETA start off their letter to Arafat with:

Your Excellency

It's a shame that PETA is such a repulsive organization, they could be doing a lot of good in the world.

#233 Berliner

Also I wasn't suggesting that PETA was exclusively a European outfit. We have plenty of those wingnuts here in the US. It was a convenient example of moral equivalency run amok.
Having said that, they do seem to be pretty thick on the ground in the UK.

#231 John Gibbon

re: Berlin: Not sure if this is known...but our capital Berlin is ruled at the moment by a coalition between social-democrats and communists!

The commies renamed themselves into "Party of democratic socialism", but it is the exact same party which ruled East-Germany for 40 years.

Amusing how history can turn.

PETA launched their 'Holocaust' project in the US last year. Perhaps they thought they'd have better luck with it in Germany. They're sick, disgusting people.

#238 Papijoe

Having said that, they do seem to be pretty thick on the ground in the UK.

PETA tried this Holocaust-campaign even in Germany last fall. The head of the German central council for the Jews condemned it as "outrageous".

But PETA topped it even then: They responded by sending a public plea-letter to this head of the Jewish community, explaining their motives and asking him personally to support their Holocaust-campaign, because "while the victims might be different, the methods are the same" (and PETA talked of chicken here, to remind readers!). I think that letter was simply ignored. Sadly, they do get publicity this way, like we talk about them now.

#240 zulubaby

Perhaps they thought they'd have better luck with it in Germany.

Oh, look, *again*. It was October/November last year to which I referred.

Hey, shocking sells. :(

all:
sorry, had to go feed the horses--

please, please forgive me if i offend anyone, this is really new to me. no takers on my personal persuasion? maybe i should set up a poll.

muslims learn to read by reading the qu'run. christians used to learn to read by reading a translation of the bible (now it's go, dog, go, one of my personal faves). islam is based on oral history traditions of tribal societies. christians have left that far behind.

if we understand islam, we can be better problem solvers, and wipe the wahhabists from the genome.

i'm leaving this thread and jumping up to charles' egyption play criticism-- any body checked on the news from islamabad lately?

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

Berliner (#241)

Sadly, they do get publicity this way, like we talk about them now.

True, but it also exposes them for the lunatics that they are. They had the nerve to say that they didn't mean to offend. They're in the business of offending! I nearly had a fit when I read about it last year. As I said, they could do good but instead their methods leave me with nothing but contempt for them.

#244 Rayra

Wouldn't that be loverly?

I'm not superstitious, but I have to say that Mother Nature has been rather cranky lately ...

Great Psy-Ops!

Too bad only Dhimmis are inclined to believing such things. After all, they think Ted Kennedy is a good senator, Bill Clinton was the first black president, and Michael Moore would give Wesley Clark a better chance in the nomination.

Reminds me of the scene from "The Princess Bride" when they debate on which cup contains the poison. Inconceivable!

OT they might have Zawahiri in Pakistan

If I was a islamofascist, I would want Bush to win.

Here's why:

1. I would think I was going to win ultimately because the Allah is supposedly on my side. I wouldn't worry too much about the human being Bush and the power he can unleash.

2. By taking a clear position on good and evil, Bush is easy for my comrades to clearly hate. He is a clear Satan. Kerry with his nuances would obscure the fight and might weaken the resolve of certain people that support the islamofascist position.

Even I didn't want Bush to win, I would say I did as a communications exercise. Remember, according to the "enlightened", Bush caused the Spain massacre. By saying this they present a case to vote against Bush.

#226 debriefed

Lewis:
if you read karen Armstrong's excellent ...

There is nothing excellent about Armstrong -- the best-selling, dhimmi Islamist tool.

I don't think you people should be making fun of my name. My fiancee, Biggus McDickle, doesn't have a problem with it. You are way too intolerant.

#251

LOL!

RWC is that you?

Nope, try again! dB^)

I was speaking to my cousin, Angus McFury, and he doesn't find this to be amusing either.

Karen Armstrong: Interview with an Apologist

Ugh - this is actually a cunning move, because now every stupid-ass leftie will try to wave this when asked the question "who do the terrorists want to win?" a question that previously made them turn scarlet in spluttering rage. Even though we all know that al-quaida will be popping the corks on the sparkling apple cider if Kerry wins (side thought: will OBL put in a congrats call if Kerry wins?). Oh well, at least we can still point out how Kerry speeches are being used as propaganda on NK state radio. At least the poofy-haired one still wants him to win.

Berliner:

Don't let Free Republic spook you. They sound pretty fringe. There is no great movement for preaching a Crusade against the Islamic world over here. In fact, many Christian denominations seems to be slipping a bit too far to the "Kumbaya" side of the spectrum, I'm afraid.

I remember the Sunday after 9/11, when I made the mistake of going to church. It was a guitar mass. The deacon who preached the sermon hinted broadly that America had brought the attack upon itself by its sins, and then, at the end, a hefty, middle-aged bleached blond woman stood up, and, playing a guitar, gave a spirited rendition of "Let There be Peace on Earth," while performing a jiggety little dance before the altar.

I don't go to that church anymore.

#239 Berliner

The commies renamed themselves into "Party of democratic socialism", but it is the exact same party which ruled East-Germany for 40 years.

Wow, same game, different name!

#254 z.b I heard a radio interview with Karen Armstrong once and I think she was talking about her "former life" as a nun. Am I hallucinating? Anyway, she was on a book tour and it was all about how the extremists from Judaism, Christinanity and Islam are exactly the same...I remember it being pretty pukey.

#253 Opheera? From Al Jazirah? C'mon-who are you. We're all McCurious.

#258 WriterMom

C'est moi.

WriterMom (#258)

I heard a radio interview with Karen Armstrong once and I think she was talking about her "former life" as a nun.

Yes, apparently that's true. I wonder if she's converted to Islam yet.

#260 zulubaby

Is this her?

#259 Thom...ha ha...McComic relief for the afternoon.

WriterMom, LOL. It's kind of hard to tell but yes, I think that's her!

#262 zulubaby

You mean you can't tell by the eyballs? @ @
Also, I sent you a picture, but we've been having e-mail trouble here today so let me know if you don't get it.

mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, for having quoted armstrong. thank you for the link, zulubaby. i've come too late to the party, is all. my sin is late entry to the Blogosphere. i certainly don't agee with the items excerted from the interview, but i'll stand by the history book-- i think my reference was to the historical origins of the monotheistic religions. has anyone else read the book?

after reading charles' review i think i'll skip the interview. scientists are not supposed to be apologists.

jaffar, you could have given me the link and spared me this mortification! en garde! AND you could do me the courtesy of acknowlegding my email even if you plan to fisk it!

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

#153 papijoe - I found that amusing also.

WriterMom, I don't have an e-mail from you yet but considering the usual delays between us, I'll hang on for a bit.

debriefed, you're welcome for the link.

my sin is late entry to the Blogosphere.

I'll forgive you anything if you get rid of this:

Bless the Blogosphere. May It Ever Increase.

:-)

ok, but it's the closest thing i've got to a religion right now.

debriefed, I'm not sure LGF is a religion but it probably should be ;-)

#264 debriefed

I haven't received an email from you. Try to resend.

jaffar: perhaps i misdirected it-- would you grant me the courtesy of an address? it is not that long, i could post it if you prefer, but, as i said before, scientist humour is often unappealing to and unappreciated by many.

re: #225 debriefed:

no, actually, Hitler wasn't a pagan -- but there was a bit of an esoteric revival going on in that time, and the Nazis just cashed in on it as a marketing ploy. (That and they were probably looking for something that didn't have any "judisch" origin -- as many on LGF seem to agree, Christianity is the spiritual heir to Judaism)

this from a lizard who's studied that Norse/Germanic "old time religion" for over ten years now, and it's always been my contention that if the Vikings had met the Jews first, they'd probably have admired their tenacity and survival instincts in the fact of so many slings & arrows of outrageous bullshit.

but i digress...

Querent
(where's my LGF T-shirt and Lizardoid Minion Number?)

OK, Berliner convinced me - the American army are on a Christian Crusade led by the great crusader Bush and his little crusader generals. Obviously, their next targets after Muslims will be the Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Druse etc. As a Jew I'm extremelly anxious now and I say something must be done to stop this crusade NOW! Before it advances further into the centers of all other religions.

Thus I think it'll be a wise choice for me and all my fellow Jews to join our Muslim brothers in their noble and brave defense against the evil American Christian Crusaders. I think my first operation, the most logical and symbolic choice, would be blowing up the US embassy in Tel Aviv. And maybe also slaughter some of them Lebanese Christians that now find refuge in Israel. I know I can't do it alone, but I'm sure I'll have no difficulty getting some help from my Muslim brothers in the neighborhood, such as Hizballah, Hamas, the Al Aqza Brigades and Islamic Jihad, now that that I'm clear about our common enemy.