Miniter

You misspelled ... minotaur?

Oh no, another friend stabbing you in the back?

OT:

Rudy announces endorsement from Pat Robertson.

Wow, Charles stirring up the sh*t!

Madder'n a sack full o' black snakes.

This gets juicier by the day - keep it up!

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

Charles, you da man!

I mentioned you here.

Related thoughts in this essay:.

Rome Didn’t Fall in a Day: an analysis of Western Europe’s cultural demise

[Link: kejda.net...]

re: #5 Kailen

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

Richard Miniter is a conservative. It's very weird to see conservatives using the same tactics as leftists.

What is wrong with Miniter? I loved his book "losing bin laden". He needs to do a little investigating himself. Maybe he is friends with atlas?

OT reply to CiJ blog post from Morning Dead Thread...

re: #667 Carl in Jerusalem

When Will Israel attack Iran

I have a few comments to make. First, as implied by the image at top left, I fail to understand the 'panic' in Washington if Israel is going to attack Iran. It is in the United States' best interests for Iran to be stopped, and the US ought to be grateful if Israel does the job for them. With hindsight it is widely acknowledged that Israel saved the world from a major problem by taking out Saddam Hussein's nuclear plant in 1981. You also don't hear a lot of complaints from anyone other than Syria, Iran and North Korea about Israel having (apparently) taken out Syria's nuclear plant in September of this year. So why the panic?

Somebody needs to bomb Iran, and soon. And it will be a net plus, in the long run, for the US.

But I know why Bush and Rice are in a panic. Shia militias in Iraq will go on the warpath in a big way, the last of the UK forces will probably flee under fire, and US casualties will jump.

Iran may sink a few tankers/launch missiles at some Arab oil terminals, causing a spike in oil prices, and Iran may just go so bat-sh!t crazy with missiles at Riyadh and Baghdad and Kuwait City (and, of course, Tel Aviv if they can) they'll force the US into a war. Which is good, as the US can do a better job bombing Iran's nuclear facilities back to the Stone Age, where the rest of the Islamic Republic is at. Never mind the Hezbos starting a new war on Israel, Hezb'Allah sleeper cells will probably start bombing things in the US.

Sort of like getting a compound fracture set w/o anasthesia, necessary for the long term good of the patient, but very unpleasant in the short term.

re: #3 average_guy

Please stop. This caused a shit-storm yesterday.

Standartenf?in

Gesundheit

Ausnazisprungflingen?

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

re: #3 average_guy

Yesterday's news - already covered in excruciating detail on LGF yesterday.

Weather Channel Founder call Global Warming/Climate Change a scam

Hitler & the "Grand Mufti" Islamic leader of Jerusalem loved each other, and were united in their quest to rid the world of Jewry.

To this day, Arab Muslims often conclude their prayers by saying, "Blessed be the name of Hitler."

And Mein Kampf remains a bestseller to this day in Arab Muslim lands, re-christened as Mein Jihad.

It's hard to look -- these pictures just make me ill. Keep fighting, Charles. Don't give an inch.

it takes a certain kind of willful blindness to ignore the disturbing connections and shady past of the Vlaams Belang.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this statement!
And those are some pretty damning photos, too.

I'm sorry you're being misrepresented like this- but I don't think it would stop, even if these people actually read what you've written and linked to before they wrote their articles/responses. That's where the 'willful blindness' comes in- if they don't research it, and learn about it, they can pretend it doesn't exist.

Well, there is no doubt that Vlaams has some bad apples with neo-Nazi and White Power ties, the only question is whether this is a "allies with Stalin against Hitler thing", which is a valid point to debate.

Although the utility of additional allies in the struggle to stop the spread of Islamofascism in Europe may be more than cancelled out by the possible allies who would never want to be associated with Nazis and WP types.

#3 I think it shows a lack of respect for the host to go off-topic so early after he's done such important work.

re: #14 Charles

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

No but I'd say you're the driver of the anti-jihad wagon. Heck, you gave Richard Miniter a platform with Pajamas Media, and you gave Atlas Shrugs a good platform too before she started her blog. It would be a shame to get you kicked off your own wagon, that's what I'm saying.

...it takes a certain kind of willful blindness...

If it's not willful blindness, then it's something worse.

"He does not offer evidence, based not on his own experience, reporting or careful deliberation..."

Criminey! I guess a herd of elephants in the room does not classify as evidence. From what I've been reading over the past few weeks, it's practically self-evident! And I didn't need to "follow a left wing link" to determine that Valaam Belang is an affiliation to run far away from.

Valaam=Vlaams

PIMF - and sometimes my worst enemy.

re: #25 Russkilitlover

It's amazing how some conservatives have fallen for Dewinter's and Belien's taqiyya.

Simple, so simple. VB and the others (Swedish Democrats etc) need to first of all denounce all racism, both within their ranks and elsewhere. Second, denounce the concept of mass deportations. And then explain how great democracy is versus any kind of fascist philosophy making the rounds these days --including Islamofascism.

Then maybe we could listen to them. Until then: nein, nyet, non, lo, and hell no.

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

re: #9 Charles

re: #5 Kailen

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

Richard Miniter is a conservative. It's very weird to see conservatives using the same tactics as leftists.

I've seen it before, sadly. I've seen conservatives use it against leftists. It's too easy of an "attack". Any group or person that wants to discredit someone else can simply fall back on misrepresenting the other side's argument.

I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me?

I believe he's arguing that because Hitler allied with Muslims, Vlaams Belang can't possibly be neo-Nazis because they themselves oppose Islam.

Spurious argument.

Oh.. that's gotta smart. The hypocrisy...

This is yet another example of what happens when someone jumps into a story in the middle without having all the facts and evidence in order. Miniter appears to have not followed the story as closely as he should have when putting together this story.

Charles afforded the Swedem Democrats the opportunity to rebut claims - posting their own documents on LGF - and those documents raised more questions than answers.

Miniter isn't alone in this - bloggers have been jumping ugly on this story since it broke - and many are doing so without having figured out the issues at stake, or understanding the significance of working with those folks when their neo-Nazism and white supremacist backgrounds lurk under a veneer of populist slogans.

re: #27 marwan's daughter

re: #25 Russkilitlover

It's amazing how some conservatives have fallen for Dewinter's and Belien's taqiyya.

I think it shows how quickly Europe can fall into fascist thinking. Their knee-jerk reaction, perhaps.

Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

Guilt by association!

/sarc

I believe our President just jumped on the Sec. Rice bandwagon,

US President George W. Bush hopes for a peaceful solution in the raw about Irans nuclear program.
"I firmly believe we can solve this problem diplomatically", Bush stated in an interview with the Cologne based German TV channel RTL, which was broadcast on Wednesday night.

[Link: www.kuna.net.kw...]

"we're separatists, not racists..."

Damn Charles, when you pile on the evidence you really pile on the evidence (unlike other web site that just pile on the ...)

Anyone else think Charles is a bit anoyed here?

Nothing like diving into the shallow end of the pool without reading the posted signs.

It's not as if Charles hasn't provided more than enough ammunition in this battle; Miniter needs to read the material and do his homework.

re: #27 marwan's daughter

re: #25 Russkilitlover

It's amazing how some conservatives have fallen for Dewinter's and Belien's taqiyya.

I don't think being conservative gives anyone a lock on righteousness. We've seen and are seeing that you yank the conservatism dial all the way to the right and you have Nazis.

It's got to be about Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. In today's political climate, for me, that means picking and choosing widely and carefully.

Oh brother.

re: #36 g3n3r1c

I believe our President just jumped on the Sec. Rice bandwagon,

US President George W. Bush hopes for a peaceful solution in the raw about Irans nuclear program.
"I firmly believe we can solve this problem diplomatically", Bush stated in an interview with the Cologne based German TV channel RTL, which was broadcast on Wednesday night.

[Link: www.kuna.net.kw...]

Not to be a contrarian, but I believe the POTUS has to pursue a diplomatic approach. At the same time, he knows what is actually happening in the background. Publicly: meet and talk. Privately: get the radar tuned to their nukes. The Iranians/Hezbollahs probably know this, too.

Dr. Rusty got his long-awaited fatwa from some American al Qaeda punk.

the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!

Hillary would be proud.

Hey, c'mon, I mean who hasn't posed for a photo op with Hitler, right? It was just a youthful indiscretion!

re: #42 Golem Akbar

Like getting the "emergency funding" for the B2 bombers- I know he should say what he did

re: #42 Golem Akbar

I believe our President just jumped on the Sec. Rice bandwagon,

He also has an enormous naval armada knocking on their door to back up any diplomacy which is much preferred to the alternative, don't you agree?

.

re: #44 Owl

the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!

Hillary would be proud.

Caught a minute of Bill Bennett's radio show this AM. He said that Hillary has led a huge company-sized enterprise in the past: Keeping Bill's illicit affairs out of the media. I think he's got a point, there.

re: #40 Russkilitlover

Nazis, National Socialist German Workers Party.
It's not conservative by any stretch of imagination.

re: #43 JammieWearingFool

I'm jealous.

Charles, don't be dismayed. You are on the right track. You don't have to get in bed with Hitler's spiritual grandchildren just to be anti-Islamist. The problem as I see it is that between the self immolating lefty moonbats and the rapidly growing Muslim populations of Europe (See Mark Steyn's America Alone), there are precious few vocal European voices in opposition who are NOT neo Nazi extremists. Perhaps the people in that French libertarian group "Liberte Cherie" and its leaders Aurelien Veron and Sabine Herold would be a good, rational foundation to build a movement on.
Or perhaps the Danish example is the best to follow. In any case, Europeans need to stop being afraid of their bloody history and start recognizing the dangers posed to their future from the Islamists and the neo Nazis. As someone with ancestral ties to Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Austria and Poland, I am intimately aware of the fault lines and the dangers inherent in European geopolitics. But turning to a Mussolini, a Franco, a Hitler, or any other fascist answer to chaos leads only to repression, persecution, and death.

I just want to make one final comment here before I take off for a bit:

CJ, you are an inspiration. You've taken as many slings and arrows as any big name on this side of the fence (you're in very good company). Yet throughout it all, you've held your ground and stuck to your convictions, and the truth. While others lie and misrepresent what goes on here, you just continue your good work and point out their lies when they come up. Keep up the good work.

And just remember rule 29 of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates:

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.

Miniter is a good man and vehemently opposed to the Islamists. Perhaps Miniter is more concerned with the damage, and potential loss, to an ally in the war against Islamofacsism than he is about who they let into the tent? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, prehaps?

Restive Eurabia;

BBC: Swastika attack on war memorial

Nazi-style swastikas have been daubed next to a war memorial in Aberystwyth, just days before Remembrance Sunday.

The symbols were painted on a paved area close to the memorial which remembers the fallen from two world wars and other conflicts...

I think Charles should issue a factwa on these buffoons.

Y DO U KEEP POTSING LEFT-WING LNIKS CHARLES?

re: #29 Ward Cleaver

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

Yes, but it always was completely nuckin futs. Some times are just moreso than others.

Anyway, is that Nazi hiding out in South America? It looks like it from the pictures. I know that Peron let a whole bunch into Argentina during his reign.

re: #14 Charles

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

Ok, I'm lost. I thought you were going to say " They can't boot me off of something I started"

maybre i'm just stupid but I thought we were "anti-jihad"...how do you define your position against islamic facism? ( I am NOT trying to stir up anything or start anything - I am just totally confused now, I swear. i have NOTHING but respect for you Charles, but I don't get that statement.)

re: #52 arieh
Bravo.

People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

I actually like Richard Minter's book, Loosing Bin Laden. Shows how the Clinton bumbling led to the empowerment of Bin Laden, how America was attacked by Bin Laden every year during the Clinton presidency, how Clinton ignored and did not understand Bin Laden (including ignoring offers to kill him by certain middle east countries) and how ultimately this all led to 9/11.

Neo-Nazis may be marching in Prague on the 69th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

But since they might oppose Islamists, some may turn a blind eye.

Can someone click on the "About Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats" and tell me what is the meaning of the bolded text "people of such weak conviction (who feel the need to wear nazi uniforms)." I don't get what is being said there. Is the author chastising people who wear Nazi uniforms because he believes Nazism is bad, or only because it makes the party "look" bad? Or is he saying that if your Nazi convictions are so weak you need to bolster your identity by wearing the uniform, stay home. I'm confused, (which is nothing new).

Useful tools being used as tools by tools...the moonbat parade continues...

re: #49 Golem Akbar

re: #44 Owl

the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!
Hillary would be proud.

Caught a minute of Bill Bennett's radio show this AM. He said that Hillary has led a huge company-sized enterprise in the past: Keeping Bill's illicit affairs out of the media. I think he's got a point, there.

and it doesn't surprise me at all considering the whole " records locked up" thing. I hope Willey's book does them both in.

re: #18 firebreather

To this day, Arab Muslims often conclude their prayers by saying, "Blessed be the name of Hitler."
.

I'm sorry what now?

This whole argument needs to be discussed and the facts presented. Charles is doing a terrific job of presenting facts... Now, sites can be left wing but Charles is also presenting from each side... From there, you can make your own arguments...

As for me, I don't want to be in bed, EVER, with Neo Nazi's... They are truly intolerant people... We may be called intolerant but we for the most part are not into wiping races or civilizations out...

Another thing that is clear is that this type of Conservative blog flare up may add to the blogosphere being discredited as a legitimate news source, thus playing right into the hands of mainstream media.

Charles needs to commended for his hard work... Same with Babba.

re: #64 JammieWearingFool

Neo-Nazis may be marching in Prague on the 69th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

In related news; Golem production is skyrocketing.

re: #5 Kailen

Richard Miniter does not deserve that sort of dismissal. He's wrong, this time.

re: #51 lawhawk

re: #43 JammieWearingFool

I'm jealous.

Yup, I only get cheap insults in my comments.

He did some major pwnage on that punk.

I like Miniter. I hope he mans up and offers the necessary apology.

re: #60 Owl

I'm saying I'm not on their bandwagon.

frank says:
I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white.

Frank's on topic again. I don't agree with him though, I don't believe in tarring people with the sins of all the other members of their race (or crediting them with their virtues). Each individual should be taken separately.

I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them.

I guess none of us have earned the right to form an opinion on Adolf Hitler either, since we haven't actually met him, unlike Leon Degrelle.

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

I think you've hit it on the head. I was trying to go there but you said it better

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery, a la Rumsfeld's photo with Saddam.

I prefer substance context to visual gotcha's, no matter how well they seem to exclaim a point.

re: #75 zmdavid

frank says:
I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white.

Frank's on topic again. I don't agree with him though, I don't believe in tarring people with the sins of all the other members of their race (or crediting them with their virtues). Each individual should be taken separately.

... and thus lives on, the eternal curse of humanity - racism.

re: #70 Occasional Reader

In related news; Golem production is skyrocketing.

/Excuse me?

re: Iran, Sec. State Rice, and President Bush.

Diplomats jobs are to talk your ear off. President Bush has to keep all options open, even the distasteful ones. He's also got a significant chunk of US military assets at hand to turn Iran into a smoking crater if they go off the rails altogether.

This is all part of crisis management - which is what Presidents do from the moment they're elected (and really what they do when campaigning as well). Now, Iran has been a crisis situation for quite some time - a chronic problem that threatens to become acute and the trick is to hold things in check.

Diplomacy will likely fail, but the US has to pursue this option at this time because the US isn't operating in a vacuum. There are other foreign powers aligned against the US and our interests in the region, including Russia (who would lose another source of revenue if Iran goes by the boards), China (ditto), and the Islamists in general.

Bush has to weigh all those issues, and simultaneously doesn't want to tip his hand as to what he wants to do - especially if he does believe that a strike on the nuclear facilities is necessary. Why tip off the enemy to your true intentions.

re: #76 Jimmah

I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them.

I guess none of us have earned the right to form an opinion on Adolf Hitler either, since we haven't actually met him, unlike Leon Degrelle.

I think you just won the thread.

re: #14 Charles

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

This (lgf) *is* the bandwagon...I've been telling people to jump on.

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

re: #84 Occasional Reader

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

halloween?

re: #74 Charles

re: #60 Owl

I'm saying I'm not on their bandwagon.

Charles is leading the parade, the bandwagon made a wrong turn on this one.

re: #60 Owl

Yeah, I was confused by that, too. Charles?

re: #76 Jimmah

For sure. And we haven't even interviewed Hitler either.

re: #74 Charles

re: #60 Owl

I'm saying I'm not on their bandwagon.

You had me at "I'm":)

...I get it now. Sorry. For a minute there it read like you were sayin' you weren't "anti-jihad", and I thought I'd lost my mind...the latter of which is likely to happen at any time. Insanity averted. Just in time for lunch.

( and I'm giddy as a schoolgirl that you replied to me, btw. You have no idea how much I look up to you, and I don't really care if it looks like i'm sucking up or not. I'm not - i mean i have nothing to gain by it anyway - but there just aren't words to tell you how much you mean to the Lizards out here and I don't think you get told enough. )

(and prayers for your Mom and you daily - and i'm sure i'm not alone in that respect)

re: #84 Occasional Reader

OH JA JA DAS GUT!

re: #80 Golem Akbar

re: #70 Occasional Reader

In related news; Golem production is skyrocketing.

/Excuse me?

In Jewish folklore from Europe, a golem is a mythical creature that would protect Jewish communities from attacks.

re: #84 Occasional Reader

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

Hell yes. I've even heard of people who burn churches and don't wear sheets. (/I know, I know)

lawhawk,

Are you penning your acceptance speech yet?

re: #89 Owl

You had me at "I'm":)

OMG laughing my head off.

So, Belien, and Miniter, try the old "Hey, look over there!" trick.

re: #81 lawhawk

re: Iran, Sec. State Rice, and President Bush.

Diplomats jobs are to talk your ear off. President Bush has to keep all options open, even the distasteful ones. He's also got a significant chunk of US military assets at hand to turn Iran into a smoking crater if they go off the rails altogether.

This is all part of crisis management - which is what Presidents do from the moment they're elected (and really what they do when campaigning as well). Now, Iran has been a crisis situation for quite some time - a chronic problem that threatens to become acute and the trick is to hold things in check.

Diplomacy will likely fail, but the US has to pursue this option at this time because the US isn't operating in a vacuum. There are other foreign powers aligned against the US and our interests in the region, including Russia (who would lose another source of revenue if Iran goes by the boards), China (ditto), and the Islamists in general.

Bush has to weigh all those issues, and simultaneously doesn't want to tip his hand as to what he wants to do - especially if he does believe that a strike on the nuclear facilities is necessary. Why tip off the enemy to your true intentions.

He needs to listen to The 'Stache.

Did you catch him with Hannity & The Idiot last night?

re: #91 lawhawk

re: #80 Golem Akbar

re: #70 Occasional Reader

In related news; Golem production is skyrocketing.

/Excuse me?

In Jewish folklore from Europe, a golem is a mythical creature that would protect Jewish communities from attacks.

I knew that [see? I used a /s tag] [smiley faces are so 1990's]

re: #84 Occasional Reader

That reply will have me laughing all day.

lol

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

Some would argue the convenience outweighed the morality.re: #84 Occasional Reader

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

Has he continued to this day the path he took as a young man 60 years ago?

re: #77 JohnSteele

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

I think you've hit it on the head. I was trying to go there but you said it better

Agreed. Great post...going down that path is no better than the one we're on( or the one we're fighting I should say)

re: #91 lawhawk

In Jewish folklore from Europe, a golem is a mythical creature that would protect Jewish communities from attacks.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that "Golem Akbar" already knew that...

Richard Miniter what could you possibly be thinking? Charles has well documented his concerns. Do you not understand that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend? Yes sure let the neo-Nazi's and the racists fight the jihadies all they want, but their fighting jihadies doesn't automatically make them the friends of those who love and cherish freedom and democracy.

The connections between Vlaams Belang and the neo-Nazi's and racists are not imaginary, they are well documented facts. Documented by no less than Vlaams Belang themselves. Is it possible that Vlaams Belang despite its well documented past association with neo-Nazi's and racists is attempting to purge itself of those elements?

Of course it is possible, Charles himself made it very clear that this was a very real possibility and was one of the reasons that he was unwilling to rush to judgment until much fact gathering and sifting of those facts had been done.

However while it does appear that while they are making such attempts, they are not being particularly aggressive in those attempts. Even more disturbing than their apparent lack of enthusiasm to do so is the attempts by others (like you Richard Miniter ) to criticize, ridicule mock and blacklist anyone who raises genuine concerns regarding accepting as allies in the struggle against radical militant Islam neo-Nazi's and racists.

Neo-Nazi's and racists are just as much the enemy of freedom loving democracies as radical militant Islam is. If any distinction can be made between the two it is that at present the neo-Nazi's and racists are not as dangerous an enemy as radical militant Islam is, not that they are any less an enemy.

If we have learned nothing else from the rise of the Third Reich, it should be just how easily ordinary decent people can become monsters simply by not actively opposing evil that posses itself as nationalistic ethnocentric pride.

re: #101 Occasional Reader

re: #91 lawhawk

In Jewish folklore from Europe, a golem is a mythical creature that would protect Jewish communities from attacks.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that "Golem Akbar" already knew that...

I guess I was being too sub-tile.

Talk about your fact checking! Charles, you da man for digging all this dirt up!

My hat's off to you.

re: #99 nolocon

Did you read the link Charles posted? He lived and died as a Nazi, and added Holocaust denial to his CV.

Way to lay the smackdown, Charles!

re: #35 Occasional Reader

Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

Guilt by association!

/sarc

Hey, just because they were at the same cocktail party! It's exactly like that picture of Bush standing with Sami al-Arian!

/must i?

.

understanding the nuances

The commies cross dressing as democrats invite us to

understand the nuances

Now the fascistoids invite us to

understand the nuances

Strange sermons by strange preachers...

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

I'll admit to feeling exactly that level of despair sometimes, but I also know I have to resist making pacts with the Devil. The problem is, because people of good character have been slow to speak out or to organize against Islamism, the slack has been picked up by the unsavory groups. When this happens, it makes the people of good character even more reluctant to speak out, for fear of being lumped in with the unsavory groups, who have already starting making the (partly) appropriate noises.

We are headed somewhere bad.

Sometimes Politics make strange bedfellows...however, if you drink and eat and socialize with Nazis-then you have no leg to stand on.

Under no circumstances can strange bedfellows be related to NAZIS!

I'm getting awfully tired of the WS apologists posting on these threads.

Charles, here is a video of Degrelle being decorated by Adolph Hitler.

Are moving pictures good enough proof for you nolocon?

"If the Waffen SS had not existed, Europe would have been overrun entirely by the Soviets by 1944. They would have reached Paris long before the Americans. The Waffen SS heroism stopped the Soviet juggernaut at Moscow, Cherkov, Cherkassy, and Tarnopol. The Soviets lost more than 12 months. Without SS resistance the Soviets would have been in Normandy before Eisenhower. The people showed deep gratitude to the young men who sacrificed their lives. Not since the great religious orders of the middle ages had there been such selfless idealism and heroism. In this century of materialism, the SS stand out as a shining light of spirituality.

I have no doubt whatever that the sacrifices and incredible feats of the Waffen SS will have their own epic poets like Schiller. Greatness in adversity is the distinction of the SS.

The curtain of silence fell on the Waffen SS after the war but now more and more young people somehow know of its existence, of its achievements. The fame is growing and the young demand to know more. In one hundred years almost everything will be forgotten but the greatness and the heroism of the Waffen SS will be remembered. It is the reward of an epic."

~ Leon Degrelle

re: #105 WriterMom

re: #99 nolocon

Did you read the link Charles posted? He lived and died as a Nazi, and added Holocaust denial to his CV.

Pardon my inarticulate post -- my point was a generic one, namely whether, from an old photo, you can discern a man's path in life subsequent to the photo. I should not have been specific to Degrelle.

re: #31 Spiritualized

I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me?

I believe he's arguing that because Hitler allied with Muslims, Vlaams Belang can't possibly be neo-Nazis because they themselves oppose Islam.

Spurious argument.

It would be a spurious argument if that's what was argued. But the article in question doesn't talk about Hitler's mere alliances with Islamists, rather it makes a point that Hitler had a liking for Islam itself, as an ideology which "perfectly suited the Germanic temperament." This distinction makes the argument somewhat less spurious.

re: #93 JammieWearingFool

I was going to have the WGA pen one, but they went on strike. Tina Fey wasn't available, and Jon Stewart couldn't comment. Colbert was too busy not running for President to respond.

So, all I can do is say thanks. Thank you to everyone who voted for me. It's an honor that fellow bloggers and readers alike chose me as the best within my rankings. I can only hope to continue producing quality content in the future.

What are you doing for your acceptance?

re: #102 doriangrey

Excellent response!

re: #99 nolocon

Has he continued to this day the path he took as a young man 60 years ago?

Try reading the link I posted:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Leon Degrelle was an unrepentant Nazi and Holocaust denier right up until his death in 1994.

re: #107 Ward Cleaver

re: #35 Occasional Reader

Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

Guilt by association!

/sarc

Hey, just because they were at the same cocktail party! It's exactly like that picture of Bush standing with Sami al-Arian!

/must i?

One picture at a cocktail party would mean little or nothing. Multiple pictures taken at an individual residence is something entirely different.

re: #99 nolocon

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

Some would argue the convenience outweighed the morality.re: #84 Occasional Reader

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

Has he continued to this day the path he took as a young man 60 years ago?

I suggest that we stop responding to nolocon until he can prove that he has read all the supporting links to this subject.

I suspect that even then, he would probably say something stupid. Maybe we should just stop feeding him?

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #86 jcm

re: #74 Charles

re: #60 Owl

I'm saying I'm not on their bandwagon.

Charles is leading the parade, the bandwagon made a wrong turn on this one.

I'd say they not only made a wrong turn, it turned off into a ditch and the wheels fell off their wagon. Then it exploded. (coming soon perhaps)

re: #101 Occasional Reader

My sarcasm meter was offline there... I'm going to have to talk with Scotty about that. Something about Gal Gadot and damned dylithium crystals.

re: #119 doriangrey

re: #107 Ward Cleaver

re: #35 Occasional Reader

Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

Guilt by association!

/sarc

Hey, just because they were at the same cocktail party! It's exactly like that picture of Bush standing with Sami al-Arian!

/must i?

One picture at a cocktail party would mean little or nothing. Multiple pictures taken at an individual residence is something entirely different.

Hence my sarc tag.

Charles, please see my #112.

re: #99 nolocon

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

And we are NOT facing a comparable situation with the islamists, of waging a desperate, literal battle against a better-armed foe. The US military is more than capable of taking on any combination of jihadist enemies in the world. The battle we face is primarily that of influencing public opinion, to push back against islamist encroachment. And association with racists can ONLY set back that objective.

spent any time understanding the nuances of Belgian politics

Where would liberals or the vast majority of intelligentsias be without that word "nuance"?

re: #94 WriterMom

:) Every now and then, I get lucky.

Back when I used to send letters to the editor in the NY Post, like clockwork a few days later I'd get a letter in the mail from a John Birch crank asking me to join.

Now, while we might have been on the same page on an issue or two, it made my skin crawl just to see the propaganda from this creep.

A little bit of googling shows Miniter, Belian, and Vlaams Belang have been friends for a long time. Miniter's not stupid or naive. He knows what's going on.

re: #59 Honorary Yooper

re: #29 Ward Cleaver

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

Yes, but it always was completely nuckin futs. Some times are just moreso than others.

Anyway, is that Nazi hiding out in South America? It looks like it from the pictures. I know that Peron let a whole bunch into Argentina during his reign.

A Belgian court sentenced Degrelle to death in absentia after WW II. He lived out his life in Spain, where the Franco regime allowed him to stay under an assumed name. He remained an unapologetic neo-Nazi and Shoah denier to his dying breath.

Koen Dillen specifically traveled to Spain to meet with Degrelle, it should be pointed out. he doesn't even have the lame excuse of paying tribute to "an elder in the Flemish movement", since Degrelle was Walloon.

(Incidentally, Degrelle started his career as an extremist Catholic youth leader --- "Rex" is actually short for "Rex Christi", i.e, Christ King --- but eventually was excommunicated. This after an incident in which he showed up for Mass in SS uniform, was denied Communion, and he became grossly abusive towards the priest.)

re: #122 lawhawk

Something about Gal Gadot

You gotta love a gal named "Gal".

(Or at the very least, I'm more than willing to try...)

re: #125 Occasional Reader

re: #99 nolocon

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

And we are NOT facing a comparable situation with the islamists, of waging a desperate, literal battle against a better-armed foe. The US military is more than capable of taking on any combination of jihadist enemies in the world. The battle we face is primarily that of influencing public opinion, to push back against islamist encroachment. And association with racists can ONLY set back that objective.

Oh God...I gather then, that ( with mucho due respect to the military) we are on the front lines- at least in theory.

This particular "enemy of my enemy" is one I want nothing to do with.

re: #43 JammieWearingFool

Dr. Rusty got his long-awaited fatwa from some American al Qaeda punk.

IS posted the most disgusting pictures of deceased US soldiers. Has direct links to GIMF. I guess like google the site administrater doesn't feel the need to close the site...yet.
It is like this issue with VB, eyes are blind who do not wish to see...or something like that. I can't imagine siding with VB and the like...it would be like helping the enemy.
Thank you Charles for exposing them, just wish others would open their darn eyes and see the harm VB brings into this.

re: #109 American Jewess In Jerusalem

We are headed somewhere bad.

Not necessarily. That's why Charles is trying to show the other bloggers (Pamela and others) not to ally themselves with VB-types. There are good people out there who are not the unsavory, neo-Nazis, who are worth making an alliance.

Hey AJIJ, what other choice is there?

As Indiana Jones once said: Nazis. I hate Nazis.

re: #123 Ward Cleaver

I'll get used to these LFG sarc tags one of these days...

Shocking that Richard Miniter is so clueless about European politics.

There was a quote from Filip DeWinter in one of the previous threads, where he said he had nothing against islam, as long as muslims stayed in their own countries. That's the classic fascist line.

Race and culture tied to the land are the starting point for fascist thinking. Fascists believe the strongest, indigenous races should lead their regions/continents; Aryan white people in Northern Europe, but also the Japanese in Asia and Arabs (or islam) in the middle east.

OT, but relevant. From the book "The Discovery of Being" by Rollo May.

...people individually and collectively surrender freedom in the hope of getting rid of unbearable anxiety, citing the individual's retreating behind the rigid stockade of dogma or whole groups collectively turning to fascism in the interwar years in Europe.

Also explains why the left likes Islam.

Do you we turn to right-wing ideologues for objective coverage of Hillary Clinton?

Well, when they are posting video of her at the debate or looking at who gave her money, sure. Maybe sources should be judged by whether they are correct or not.

I have to say I'm really surprised to find out Pamela is siding against the facts on this one.

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

Of course, there's a grain of truth in this goddamn Nazi's ranting... the Waffen SS were tough bastards, no question about it. (Of course I'm referring to the ones that actually fought against armed opponents, not the Einsatzgruppen who mass-murdered civilians.)

Charles, the problem with writers like Miniter is that they don't pay any attention to an issue like this, then when they do notice it, they don't dig deep, but instead write something stupid and uninformed. It'd be like me trying to write a story about Britney Spears' child custody battle.

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

re: #116 lawhawk

re: #93 JammieWearingFool

I was going to have the WGA pen one, but they went on strike. Tina Fey wasn't available, and Jon Stewart couldn't comment. Colbert was too busy not running for President to respond.

So, all I can do is say thanks. Thank you to everyone who voted for me. It's an honor that fellow bloggers and readers alike chose me as the best within my rankings. I can only hope to continue producing quality content in the future.

What are you doing for your acceptance?

I don't want to jinx anything, so no comment.

Seriously, probably a post just thanking everyone who voted and congratulating the winners. I realized I missed my first anniversary the other day, so maybe something to tie that in.

I asked my holographic image to go to Vegas, but he has other plans.

Maybe some year I'll attend one of these blog confabs.

re: #125 Occasional Reader

And it will only strengthen the leftist-Islamic alliance calling us racist and xenophobic... Because then they will be right...

re: #125 Occasional Reader

re: #99 nolocon

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

And we are NOT facing a comparable situation with the islamists, of waging a desperate, literal battle against a better-armed foe. The US military is more than capable of taking on any combination of jihadist enemies in the world. The battle we face is primarily that of influencing public opinion, to push back against islamist encroachment. And association with racists can ONLY set back that objective.

I presume no one would promote associating with racists, any more than associating with other immoral people. The debate, as I have watched it, seems to be discerning people's morality.

Vlaams Belang

how is that pronounced, btw?

re: #112 WriterMom

Here's a more modern video of him speaking about Islam...
Leon Degrelle on Islam

re: #118 Charles

re: #99 nolocon

Has he continued to this day the path he took as a young man 60 years ago?

Try reading the link I posted:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Leon Degrelle was an unrepentant Nazi and Holocaust denier right up until his death in 1994.

That's not research Charles. Mixing socially with unrepentant Nazis and posing for smiley-faced photos with them - that's research, apparently. Oh, and making unfounded assumptions of innocence and ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary - more 'research'.

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

He might want to reconsider the company he has over to dinner.

148 Owl 11/08/07 9:19:46 am reply quote report 0

Vlaams Belang

how is that pronounced, btw?

It sounds stupid no matter how you say it. re: #148 Owl

re: #137 doriangrey

re: #123 Ward Cleaver

I'll get used to these LFG sarc tags one of these days...

No problem. Some of us who've been here awhile don't make it too obvious. Sometimes it's just a "/".

re: #130 Former Belgian

Yeah, I read the link after I commented. Degrelle sounds like an evil man from the Wiki entry. Miniter should be ashamed to have been associated with him. Somehow, I suspect otherwise.

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery, a la Rumsfeld's photo with Saddam.

I prefer substance context to visual gotcha's, no matter how well they seem to exclaim a point.

Rummy, meeting Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war, as an agent of the US government isn't quite the same thing as meeting Adolf while wearing an SS uniform.

Richard Miniter makes a number of erroneous assertions. Aside from the obvious ones (such as claiming that the only evidence of WN ties with the Vlaams Belang comes from Leftist links), there is an assumption that only "face-to-face" interviews can provide "answers." I suspect that would surely and quickly put an end to all historical research which examines the past, say 100 years ago, and for which there are no living representatives to be "interviewed." Good research should not wedded to "conducting interviews." Another issue which Richard Miniter fails to address (and, really, which is at the heart of the matter) is the allegation that Beilen (and his wife) may be the happy cover for something else -- that is, that the "new-found" face of Vlaams Belang is, at best, cosmetic. (There is an academic political journal which has alleged that this is, indeed, the case -- that the core political values of the Vlaams Belang remain the same as the Vlaams Blok).

re: #148 Owl

how is that pronounced, btw?

It always looks to me like a spelled-out sound effect from the old "Batman" series. POW! BAFFF! VLAAMS! BELANG!

re: #136 Golem Akbar

Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't lamenting the fact that we can't ally ourselves with NeoNazis! I was lamenting the fact that there are not more good people mobilizing to fight the enemy.

re: #134 allahakchew

The IS post was pretty awful. One of the worst I've seen (and I've seen some bad ones).

Rusty pwned them in a big way, but it still burns me that IS is an American-run site.

If I were younger and dumber, a roadtrip would definitely be on the table.

re: #18 firebreather

Hitler & the "Grand Mufti" Islamic leader of Jerusalem loved each other, and were united in their quest to rid the world of Jewry.

To this day, Arab Muslims often conclude their prayers by saying, "Blessed be the name of Hitler."

And Mein Kampf remains a bestseller to this day in Arab Muslim lands, re-christened as Mein Jihad.

As has been pointed out repeatedly on this site ad infinitum, what's your point?

I forgot to add the '/Vlaams Belang apologist' tag in the post above there.

re: #152 JammieWearingFool

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

He might want to reconsider the company he has over to dinner.

So now we see where he's coming from. Very sad.

I think the comparison to our alliance in WWII with Stalin is a false one.

In WWII The Western allies were on their heels, Continental Europe had fallen, Britain had withdrawn to the Island after Dunkirk. The US was not in the fight, when Hitler attacked Russia. Russian was the only one in real, heavy contact with German force until Operation Torch in Nov. '42.

The Russians and the Western allies where aligned by who Germany choose to attack, not the Western Allies seeking an Alliance with Russia against Germany.

The current conflict in Europe is in terms of actual physical conflict, extremely low intensity. Armies are not in contact in full battle.

The battle in Europe is for the ideological soul, the political direction, and social order of numerous nations. The question at hand is will Europe fall to a totalitarian theocratic colonization by Islamofascists or will she resist and insist on liberal democracy and assimilation into western civilization.

Ideological the fascist / neo-nazis / white supremacists of Europe are more closely aligned in goals to the Islamofascist with out the religious component and the core being race vs. religion.

We've been down that road in Europe before at a cost of close to 60 million lives.

The only thing we have in common with fascist / neo-nazis / white supremacists is a anti-jihad sentiment. But the REASONS is far different. They hate the race and religion of the jihadist.

We hate the supervision of liberty. Both fascist / neo-nazis / white supremacists and jihadist would subvert liberty in Europe.

re: #158 Occasional Reader

re: #148 Owl

how is that pronounced, btw?

It always looks to me like a spelled-out sound effect from the old "Batman" series. POW! BAFFF! VLAAMS! BELANG!

From the episode where Batman kicks ass on the Belgian Nazis?

re: #162 Jimmah

I forgot to add the '/Vlaams Belang apologist' tag in the post above there.

I knew something was missing from that post.

re: #60 Owl

re: #14 Charles

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

Ok, I'm lost. I thought you were going to say " They can't boot me off of something I started"

maybe i'm just stupid but I thought we were "anti-jihad"...how do you define your position against islamic facism? ( I am NOT trying to stir up anything or start anything - I am just totally confused now, I swear. i have NOTHING but respect for you Charles, but I don't get that statement.)

Hi Owl. I know Charles answered you above at #74 and although I've never done this before, I want to clarify or amplify Charles post:
A couple of weeks ago there was a "Counter-Jihad" conference in Belgium. Charles posted on the second day or just after the end of the conference, that American "Counter-Jihadists" needed to be careful with whom they invited/associated with at that conference, because some of the folks in attendance may have been Counter-Jihad, but they were also Neo-Nazi's and Fascists. Charles' warning was basically that the Neo-Nazi's (or, as they prefer to call themselves, White Nationalists) would use the association with otherwise respectable counter-jihad folks to further burnish their image that they weren't WN's or Fascists.
Thereafter Charles was viciously and personally attacked by people for issuing his concerns, to the point where one of them actually said, on her blog, that Charles was aligning himself with CAIR. This ridiculous mantra was picked up by other bloggers to the point where Charles (and some LGFer's) did even more research and -to my mind, anyway - proved that those WN's were in fact fascists). Some of the other bloggers at the conference, notably Robert Spencer, communicated directly with Charles, and did not criticize him or make truly vile personal attacks on Charles for apparently throwing a rock under their bandwagon. Charles was never on that bandwagon represented entirely by those in attendance at the Counter-Jihad conference.
Frankly, while I deeply regret the slings and arrows which Charles had to endure, it provoked such deep and through research, including the playing in real time of an interview with Filip DeWinter by Tom Paine, and tons of other research, that the WN's have lashed back at Charles and they and their commenter's have continuously done so. The very idea that the only way you can find out information about someone simply by interviewing them runs totally contrary to the reason blogs like this have come into being. I don't think Charles interviewed Dan Rather or his producer, yet he was, through research, still able to show Rather for the fraud he was. At the time, the people who are now saying "online" research isn't sufficient, you have to actually speak to these people, were applauding Charles for exposing Rather.
I suspect the vitriol thrown at Charles and LGF was purely based on envy and hate because CHARLES WAS RIGHT AND THEY WERE WRONG.

re: #156 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery, a la Rumsfeld's photo with Saddam.

I prefer substance context to visual gotcha's, no matter how well they seem to exclaim a point.

Rummy, meeting Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war, as an agent of the US government isn't quite the same thing as meeting Adolf while wearing an SS uniform.

HuffingtonPost or DailKos wouldn't agree with you -- I've read far too many articles/blogs that equate the two.
That's the basis for my (inarticulate) point that use of old photos can be a hazardous exercise. Too often the substance is lost in the photo.

re: #130 Former Belgian

re: #59 Honorary Yooper

re: #29 Ward Cleaver

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

Yes, but it always was completely nuckin futs. Some times are just moreso than others.

Anyway, is that Nazi hiding out in South America? It looks like it from the pictures. I know that Peron let a whole bunch into Argentina during his reign.

A Belgian court sentenced Degrelle to death in absentia after WW II. He lived out his life in Spain, where the Franco regime allowed him to stay under an assumed name. He remained an unapologetic neo-Nazi and Shoah denier to his dying breath.

Koen Dillen specifically traveled to Spain to meet with Degrelle, it should be pointed out. he doesn't even have the lame excuse of paying tribute to "an elder in the Flemish movement", since Degrelle was Walloon.

(Incidentally, Degrelle started his career as an extremist Catholic youth leader --- "Rex" is actually short for "Rex Christi", i.e, Christ King --- but eventually was excommunicated. This after an incident in which he showed up for Mass in SS uniform, was denied Communion, and he became grossly abusive towards the priest.)

This would explain the VB party plank about amnesty for Nazi collaboators during the war, wouldn't it.

re: #152 JammieWearingFool

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

He might want to reconsider the company he has over to dinner.

Indeed, I recall reading and hearing from WWII vets that Nazi officers were some of the politest dignified and articulate monsters they had ever seen. Were you to meet them in a social setting it was very difficult to grasp just how evil and vile the political machine they supported and represented really was.

re: #163 Ward Cleaver

re: #152 JammieWearingFool

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:
I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

He might want to reconsider the company he has over to dinner.

So now we see where he's coming from. Very sad.

Everyone has an agenda. Miniter seems to now attack Charles to support his friends not on the actualy issues.

The only way to deal with nazis is bullets and prison; the best way to deal with neo-nazis is prison and bullets.

The Vlaams is toxic and anyone who cares about democracy should and must avoid them like the plague they are. Vlaams are using immigration as an issue to seize power. Anyone who thinks their anti Islamic immigration rhetoric makes them OK or safe to be in power is fooling themselves. Yes Europe is in crisis and yes they will be destroyed if they don't protect their societies, Turning to fasicst groups for salvation only brings war and worse.

Democracy is the answer and the traditional political parties must be made to act to defend their societies. The rise of Vlaams and others will force reforms.

re: #159 American Jewess In Jerusalem

re: #136 Golem Akbar

Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't lamenting the fact that we can't ally ourselves with NeoNazis! I was lamenting the fact that there are not more good people mobilizing to fight the enemy.

I think I understand. I do believe there are many good people "out there" who are worth having as allies. In Europe, for example, it looks like most would love to find a non-fascist party with which to oppose Islamic fascism. Here in the US, it's just starting. Most Republicans and many (shockingly) democrats are starting to realize the dangers. Not enough. Not fast enough. But over time, I've got to believe the movement will grow. Of course, in Israel, they are more aware of this than we here in La La land (Los Angeles).

I don't want to say don't worry. Just that I hope (and pray) we will win. But hope and stay positive.

I found it interesting that the usual VB supporters had no response the the White Power Rat in the youth magazine. Not a peep.

re: #158 Occasional Reader

re: #148 Owl

how is that pronounced, btw?

It always looks to me like a spelled-out sound effect from the old "Batman" series. POW! BAFFF! VLAAMS! BELANG!

hahahaa. Yes, I tend to say it in my head as " Vah-lahms Blang", but I didn't know if I'd one day be embarrased by saying it wrong in front of my know-it-all BIL.

re: #129 Killgore Trout

A little bit of googling shows Miniter, Belian, and Vlaams Belang have been friends for a long time. Miniter's not stupid or naive. He knows what's going on.

I agree. There is a lot of lying through teeth going on over this issue.

Anyone here know much about the Swiss People's Party (SVP)?

Are they similar to Vlaams Belang?

Are their any political parties in Europe that lean right (ie, anti-socialist, anti-EU, pro-Individualism, pro-freedom, anti-Sharia) yet are not preoccupied with race and ethnicity?

If there are none, then the future of Europe looks pretty dark at best.

re: #172 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The Vlaams is toxic and anyone who cares about democracy should and must avoid them like the plague they are.

Yes! And the Jewish bloggers (Atlas, for one) who think VB are good friends are just fooling themselves. They'll find out soon enough. Hopefully before any damage to their reputations is done.

In my mind clear thinking Americans will not support any sort of White Nationalism, or any sort of facisct Neo-Nazi groups.

Period. End of story.

re: #99 nolocon

Has [Degrelle] continued to this day the path he took as a young man 60 years ago?

Totally. He was an unapologetic neo-Nazi and Shoah denier to his last breath. I saw an interview with him filmed in the early 1980s: Goebbels y"sh himself would have been proud.

Also, he was not THAT young (he was born in 1906):

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This is a VERY different story from some naive 18-year old that was duped into joining the Flemish Legion by "go join the fight against Communism" propaganda. (Yes, there were such people.) Degrelle had a track record as an extremist demagogue from before the war, both via his speeches as the leader of Rex (which polled 21 seats in the Belgian lower house of parliament!) and via his newspaper "Le pays réel" (the real country). I read some of the dreck: going on and on about democracy being nothing but "judeo-maurocratie" (Judeo-Masonic rule) etc.

It is telling of the traditional Germanophobia among Walloons that, the moment he made common cause with Hitler (y"sh), many Rex supporters that otherwise agreed with his ideas left Rex and even joined the Resistance.

are their = are there

Yeeech.

Can I has ur Vlaams Belang?

re: #179 tfc3rid

In my mind clear thinking Americans will not support any sort of White Nationalism, or any sort of facisct Neo-Nazi groups.

Period. End of story.

I think you're right. I'm not so sure about Europe, however.

re: #166 Ward Cleaver

re: #162 Jimmah

I forgot to add the '/Vlaams Belang apologist' tag in the post above there.

I knew something was missing from that post.

lol. I think it's best to err on the side of safety with the sarc tags etc. Most folks reading know exactly what you mean, but there's always the chance of causing a stramash with someone who doesn't know your posting style, or is new to the issue under discussion.

re: #172 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

I noticed that was well, in the case of VB, simply replace Hitlers anti-Jewish rhetoric with todays VB anti-Jihadi rhetoric and it seems that they are trying to employee the same old fears and the same old tactics to once again achieve the same old objectives.

re: #182 Killgore Trout

ROTF! I wonder what the cat's real name is.

A great, and longish, article at Commentary

What Kind of War Are We Fighting, and Can We Win It?

To mark the publication of Norman Podhoretz’s World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism (Doubleday), the editors of COMMENTARY addressed the following questions to a group of leading thinkers:

1. Do you accept the term “World War IV,” or the idea behind it, as an apt characterization of the West’s battle with Islamic extremism, and do you, like Norman Podhoretz, see Iraq as a crucial early theater in that conflict?

2. Six years after 9/11, how would you assess our progress? What would you like to see happen next?

3. On the specific issue of the spread of democracy—a linchpin of the Bush Doctrine and a point of acute controversy between foreign-policy realists and neoconservatives—do you agree or disagree with Podhoretz that “democratization represents the best and perhaps even the only way to defeat Islamofascism and the terrorism it uses as its main weapon against us”?

4. Turning to the political climate at home, do you think the Bush Doctrine has a chance of surviving the elections of 2008, and if so in what form?

The question was put to several of our favorite writers & thinkers: Fouad Ajami, John R. Bolton, Max Boot, Reuel Marc Gerecht
Victor Davis Hanson, Daniel Henninger, Martin Kramer, William Kristol, Andrew C. McCarthy, David Pryce-Jones, Claudia Rosett, Amir Taheri, Ruth Wedgwood, James Q. Wilson, & R. James Woolsey

I quote one here, but they are all worth reading:

Amir Taheri

I have no problem describing the current struggle as World War IV. With varying degrees of intensity, this war is being fought in 22 countries across the globe—from Indonesia and Thailand to the Sudan and Algeria. Many other countries, among them almost all the 57 nations with a Muslim majority and several Western nations as well, are targets of occasional terrorist operations that the jihadists describe as ghazva (holy raids).

The fact that the conflict affects so many nations is not the only reason why we should agree with Norman Podhoretz in considering this a world war. Another and more important reason is that the conflict is not about such mundane things as borders, territory, or access to markets and resources. It is about the future of mankind as a whole. Here we have the clash of two visions of the world’s future. One vision is that of a pluralistic global system based on the shared values of human rights, democracy, free enterprise, and international law. The other vision is inspired by a radical and rigid re-interpretation of Islam as the “Final Truth” dictated by God, abrogating all other faiths and creeds.

The war, then, has clear ideological fronts. But its military fronts are not so clearly drawn, and this has caused some confusion. In this war, many Muslims, perhaps even a majority, are fighting against Islamism, whereas many in the West, including some late avatars of Stalinism and fascism, are objective allies of the Islamists. In other words, this is not a war between the West and the rest but between democracy, which has many supporters in non-democratic societies, and the latest challenger to democracy that is Islamofascism. At times, indeed, the war is an internal one, being fought within the same societies, and even within the same families, both in the Muslim world and in the Western democracies. Moreover, just as there were many kinds of Communism and fascism in World Wars II and III, so there are many different kinds of Islamofascism today. But all have one thing in common: their determination to reshape the world in accordance with their totalitarian vision.

re: #167 realwest

realwest, thanks for the reply. I'm following it, and I get the jist of it - although your reply filled in any blanks that i had and I appreciate it.
Charles just has a way of surprising this ole right-of-Rush conservative at times and I about lost my lunch when I misread what he was saying - that's all. It was just the wording of the statement that got me - because I found it to be a 180 of what I thought I knew about CJ. I've learned alot in my years at LGF, and the one thing I know is that I'm always learning more - being enlightened by people like you, and of course the King Liz. I'm probably a little too goofy for my own good on here, but I mean well, and I don't care what the weblog awards say, there is no finer group of people, and no better WEBSITE, than LGF.

re: #182 Killgore Trout

Can I has ur Vlaams Belang?

LOL!

I have a friend who went on vacation in Belgium. He probably knows more about all this than us knuckledragging stuck-in-America hicks, since he actually met a lot of Belgians (mostly while they were all drinking a lot of beer). /sarc

re: #185 doriangrey

That's an important feature that many people (Pamela) are missing. Nazi's didn't really hate the Jews as much as they considered themselves superior. Anyone else in their way would have gotten the same treatment.

re: #183 Golem Akbar

re: #179 tfc3rid

In my mind clear thinking Americans will not support any sort of White Nationalism, or any sort of facisct Neo-Nazi groups.

Period. End of story.

I think you're right. I'm not so sure about Europe, however.

The Europeans are sadly susceptible to this kind of thing.

Vlaams Belang:

It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but steps like a goose.

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

I posted at GREAT length about Beliën and the Blok in another thread

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Basically, I think Miniter's biggest mistake is seeing Mr. and Mrs. Beliën as representative of the VB. They are not, for reasons I outlined there.

re: #170 doriangrey

re: #152 JammieWearingFool

re: #144 gman

Richard, it must be hard to think clearly about the issue when you state:

I have known Belien and his wife, who is, yes, a member of the Belgian parliament for the Vlaams Belang, for almost seven years and they have been guests in home in both Brussels and Washington.

Logic and reason have a way of disappearing when friendships are involved.

He might want to reconsider the company he has over to dinner.

Indeed, I recall reading and hearing from WWII vets that Nazi officers were some of the politest dignified and articulate monsters they had ever seen. Were you to meet them in a social setting it was very difficult to grasp just how evil and vile the political machine they supported and represented really was.

I was reading a story the other day how Nazi hunters were still tracking down some SS doctor who they said would smile while removing organs from live concentration camp prisoners.

It was nauseating, yet reminded me of the enemies we face today who celebrate death and mass murder.

re: #193 Thanos

Vlaams Belang:

It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but steps like a goose.

Good candidate for rotating title!

re: #160 Son Of The Godfather

The NYT article about him blew alot of hard work. They like to do un-American things like that unfortunately.

Some of his "friends" here in US adore Malcolm X, praise Hitler. One put out a APB for motorist in Georgia dishing Mohammed quite awhile back.
His site went down for some reason..:)

And who are VB and ilk associated with? Hmmm.

Im in ur blogz, fighting the Jihadz! We be friends now?

re: #178 Golem Akbar

re: #172 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The Vlaams is toxic and anyone who cares about democracy should and must avoid them like the plague they are.

Yes! And the Jewish bloggers (Atlas, for one) who think VB are good friends are just fooling themselves. They'll find out soon enough. Hopefully before any damage to their reputations is done.

Way, way back in the day, I visited Atlas' young blog, which featured a photo of her looking studious in Rome, and commented that she seemed good looking, and a little sex appeal might help her blog traffic.

I did not, however, at any point, suggest a clinging, skin tight, possibly painted on, Super-Girl outfit picture.

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

These aren't "conservatives". They are right-wing hate-mongers. The fact that they substitute "Muslim" for "Jew" is just a detail. Their existence is predicaed on their hateful relationship with some other entity. Next week it could be the Chinese.

That sounds awfully leftoid of me, but I am increasingly realizing that there is a massive schism happening between those who really are just interested in spreading pure hatred and antognism about Muslims in general, and those noble souls like Micheal Yon who are more interested in winning Muslims over by setting a humane--yet firm--example of what Americans are all about.

OT:
A take on the situation in Pakistan, from a Thai perspective. They find the similarities between the two situations striking.

Most folks think it fashionable to compare Pakistan to Iran, especially in light of Musharraf and the deposing of the Shah - both of whom had US support and Musharraf may yet find US support go by the boards.

I second that one...

" ...looks like a duck, steps like a goose..."

I'd love to also see this as a rotating title...

" RON PAUL !11!11!1111! "

I know, I know - don't hold my breath. hahaa

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Are you sure about that? The amount of vitriol against Jews in Hitler's writings seems far too specific to be just an issue of being "in the way."

re: #191 Killgore Trout

re: #185 doriangrey

That's an important feature that many people (Pamela) are missing. Nazi's didn't really hate the Jews as much as they considered themselves superior. Anyone else in their way would have gotten the same treatment.

Indeed, while the Nazi's exterminated 6+ million Jew's, the number that died in the concentration camps was closer to 12 million. Homosexuals, Gypsies, Romanians, the mentally deficient and communists fared little better than the Jew's.

re: #178 Golem Akbar Respectfully, their reputations are already gone and, for me at least, irretrievably so.
Atlas, for one, should have had the common decency to communicate with Charles directly before proclaiming to the world (or at least that teeny part that actually follows her blog) that Charles had aligned himself with CAIR. That kind of statement could only come from unreasoning hatred because Charles had "rained on her parade". The same can be said, at least for me, for the Gates of Vienna who said they had provided security (one would assuming providing security would include vetting the attendees) only to later be contradicted by some of the WN's.
Moreover, those reputations, for me, were lost the minute the attacks weren't based on what Charles was warning about, but on Charles himself.

Maybe Richard Miniter wants to have Charles meeting with Paul Belien, etc., and become chums. So, the thinking goes -- once Charles is properly apprised of what a fine, outstanding person Paul Belien is, then all concerns about the Vlaams Belang Party will be dropped. (Is this what happened with Atlas Shrugs?)

re: #191 Killgore Trout

re: #185 doriangrey

That's an important feature that many people (Pamela) are missing. Nazi's didn't really hate the Jews as much as they considered themselves superior. Anyone else in their way would have gotten the same treatment.

I don't know about that. I haven't read Mein Kampf, (although sometimes I think I should, just for the background), but I have seen excerpts, and Herr Hitler had a big issue, an irrational hatred, for the Jews.

Gunmen fire on anti-Chavez march

Authorities said it was unclear who the attackers were, but opposition members have in the past accused pro-Chavez militants of being behind similar incidents.

"Armed groups started firing at students who were returning from the peaceful demonstration," said the dean of the law faculty, Jorge Pabon.

He said the attackers arrived on the Central University of Venezuela campus on motorcycles. They first set a bus alight, and later fired at students from inside a university building. Terrified students ran through the campus as ambulances arrived.

re: #191 Killgore Trout

re: #185 doriangrey
That's an important feature that many people (Pamela) are missing. Nazi's didn't really hate the Jews as much as they considered themselves superior. Anyone else in their way would have gotten the same treatment.

I don't think that is supported by history. Nazis killed millions of non-Jews, but never with the same level of obsession, design, expense and purpose.

re: #200 Pro-Bush Canuck

...noble souls like Micheal Yon who are more interested in winning Muslims over by setting a humane--yet firm--example of what Americans are all about.

Let's add Robert Spencer and people like Daniel Pipes. That is just what they are attempting to do. I'd put Charles in that same category.

O.T.

Just like so many reports before it, a joint survey by the Project for Excellence in Journalism and Harvard's Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy — hardly a bastion of conservative orthodoxy — found that in covering the current presidential race, the media are sympathetic to Democrats and hostile to Republicans.

Democrats are not only favored in the tone of the coverage. They get more coverage period. This is particularly evident on morning news shows, which "produced almost twice as many stories (51% to 27%) focused on Democratic candidates than on Republicans."

The most flagrant bias, however, was found in newspapers. In reviewing front-page coverage in 11 newspapers, the study found the tone positive in nearly six times as many stories about Democrats as it was negative.

Breaking it down by candidates, the survey found that Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the favorites. "Obama's front page coverage was 70% positive and 9% negative, and Clinton's was similarly 61% positive and 13% negative."

In stories about Republicans, on the other hand, the tone was positive in only a quarter of the stories; in four in 10 it was negative.

The study also discovered that newspaper stories "tended to be focused more on political matters and less on issues and ideas than the media overall. In all, 71% of newspaper stories concentrated on the 'game,' compared with 63% overall."

Television has a similar problem. Only 10% of TV stories were focused on issues, and here, too, Democrats get the better of it.
[Link: www.ibdeditorials.com...]

Survey here
[Link: www.ksg.harvard.edu...]

That's the basis for my (inarticulate) point that use of old photos can be a hazardous exercise. Too often the substance is lost in the photo.

If it were the only evidence, it wouldn't be enough. As the 100th (at least) piece of evidence, I think it's good to keep showing what people are finding. Of course, now Charles will get accused of piling on, right?

"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." —GK Chesterton

The blind leading the blind.

More like the opportunists leading the ignorant. Or maybe it's just en vogue this season to bash Charles Johnson.

re: #142 Occasional Reader

Sometimes they were one and the same men.

That's the problem, some days: the enemy isn't always cowardly.

re: #195 JammieWearingFool

One history book or another I remember the description of a party for Himmler at one the Camps. The refined society, the fine music, polite discussion, fine food etc... and the jarring disconnect, the food served by prisoners, new ones so they looked good dress for the occasion, the music played by prisoners, the silver service "confiscated" from prisoners.

OT relatively good news:

The Anarchist wing of the Democratic base is attacking Ron Paul

re: #187 Kenneth

A great, and longish, article at Commentary

What Kind of War Are We Fighting, and Can We Win It?

To mark the publication of Norman Podhoretz’s World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism (Doubleday), the editors of COMMENTARY addressed the following questions to a group of leading thinkers:

1. Do you accept the term “World War IV,” or the idea behind it, as an apt characterization of the West’s battle with Islamic extremism, and do you, like Norman Podhoretz, see Iraq as a crucial early theater in that conflict?

2. Six years after 9/11, how would you assess our progress? What would you like to see happen next?

3. On the specific issue of the spread of democracy—a linchpin of the Bush Doctrine and a point of acute controversy between foreign-policy realists and neoconservatives—do you agree or disagree with Podhoretz that “democratization represents the best and perhaps even the only way to defeat Islamofascism and the terrorism it uses as its main weapon against us”?

4. Turning to the political climate at home, do you think the Bush Doctrine has a chance of surviving the elections of 2008, and if so in what form?

The question was put to several of our favorite writers & thinkers: Fouad Ajami, John R. Bolton, Max Boot, Reuel Marc Gerecht
Victor Davis Hanson, Daniel Henninger, Martin Kramer, William Kristol, Andrew C. McCarthy, David Pryce-Jones, Claudia Rosett, Amir Taheri, Ruth Wedgwood, James Q. Wilson, & R. James Woolsey

I quote one here, but they are all worth reading:

Amir Taheri

I have no problem describing the current struggle as World War IV. With varying degrees of intensity, this war is being fought in 22 countries across the globe—from Indonesia and Thailand to the Sudan and Algeria. Many other countries, among them almost all the 57 nations with a Muslim majority and several Western nations as well, are targets of occasional terrorist operations that the jihadists describe as ghazva (holy raids).

The fact that the conflict affects so many nations is not the only reason why we should agree with Norman Podhoretz in considering this a world war. Another and more important reason is that the conflict is not about such mundane things as borders, territory, or access to markets and resources. It is about the future of mankind as a whole. Here we have the clash of two visions of the world’s future. One vision is that of a pluralistic global system based on the shared values of human rights, democracy, free enterprise, and international law. The other vision is inspired by a radical and rigid re-interpretation of Islam as the “Final Truth” dictated by God, abrogating all other faiths and creeds.

The war, then, has clear ideological fronts. But its military fronts are not so clearly drawn, and this has caused some confusion. In this war, many Muslims, perhaps even a majority, are fighting against Islamism, whereas many in the West, including some late avatars of Stalinism and fascism, are objective allies of the Islamists. In other words, this is not a war between the West and the rest but between democracy, which has many supporters in non-democratic societies, and the latest challenger to democracy that is Islamofascism. At times, indeed, the war is an internal one, being fought within the same societies, and even within the same families, both in the Muslim world and in the Western democracies. Moreover, just as there were many kinds of Communism and fascism in World Wars II and III, so there are many different kinds of Islamofascism today. But all have one thing in common: their determination to reshape the world in accordance with their totalitarian vision.

Now that is threadworthy.

re: #206 realwest

re: #178 Golem Akbar Respectfully, their reputations are already gone and, for me at least, irretrievably so.
Atlas, for one, should have had the common decency to communicate with Charles directly before proclaiming to the world (or at least that teeny part that actually follows her blog) that Charles had aligned himself with CAIR. That kind of statement could only come from unreasoning hatred because Charles had "rained on her parade". The same can be said, at least for me, for the Gates of Vienna who said they had provided security (one would assuming providing security would include vetting the attendees) only to later be contradicted by some of the WN's.
Moreover, those reputations, for me, were lost the minute the attacks weren't based on what Charles was warning about, but on Charles himself.

Bravo. I wonder how she feels about the rise of MKH ? That might explain a bit of jealous wrath against anyone that might point out a little mistake or two? I dunno. I always thought so much of her. :(
Bizzaro world, indeed.

re: #40 Russkilitlover

I don't think being conservative gives anyone a lock on righteousness. We've seen and are seeing that you yank the conservatism dial all the way to the right and you have Nazis.

It's got to be about Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. In today's political climate, for me, that means picking and choosing widely and carefully.

I think this is absolutely key with this whole issue. It's not "what are they against?" It's "what are they FOR?" Being FOR the fundamental rights of man for the people who live in a country is neither left nor right. Trampling those rights is neither left nor right - groups on all sides have gone beyond the pale on this issue in the past.

I'm thinking we should think something along the lines of "what would Benjamin Franklin do?" or "what would Thomas Jefferson do?" or "what would George Washington do?" if they were alive today.

re: #203 vxbush

I sincerely believe it's because there were far more Jews in Europe at the time than Muslims.

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Im in ur blogz, fighting the Jihadz! We be friends now?

Good grief.

Okay, I have a question that might either rehash what has already been said (and re-open some wounds) but I want to try to put what I perceive is happening into an historical context.

In the 1930's, Western Europe had no one strong enough to stand up to the Soviets - who were picnicking on themselves thanks to Stalin's purges - save for the Germans. It was generally accepted by men like Stanley Baldwin that the Nazis, though odious, were the bulwark against the spread of communism. One can argue that Stalin's creation of satellite/client states in eastern Europe after the war was a reaction to his country having been invaded twice within a 50 year time frame. Others argue that he had been planning to do that all along and the removal of the Germans and the lack of will of the US, the UK and France to top him gave him the opportunity.

My point is, if these far-right groups are, seemingly, the only ones who are capable of building the grass-roots support to stop the influx of radical Islam into Europe, is it wrong for us to look at them as the only available bulwark against an even more odious ideology? If these groups are destroyed, or are otherwise marginalized, then isn't it possible that there will be no other groups capable of keeping radical Islam from spreading as these other groups, like the western Europeans of 1944-5, lack the will to stop them.

Please note, I am NOT endorsing any neo-nazi, or white-supremacist group. As an arm-chair historian, I find their rhetoric, at best, idiotic; horrific at the worst. The purpose of my post is to illustrate an unfortunate reality that Europe may need these "attack dogs" - as a necessary evil - to save themselves from a problem they created. The issue will be what to do with "fido" once the problem (hopefully) has been resolved.

re: #219 McNug

OT relatively good news:

The Anarchist wing of the Democratic base is attacking Ron Paul

I'm kinda surprised they aren't lining up behind him. The fact that he's big on the Constitution hasn't stopped the lefties from snuggling up to him( of course I know that's all about the war, etc.)

And creatures like these are allowed to walk the Earth? Background behind the color pic with the old monster shows a view from the balcony of a nice apartment, not bars. Or flames, for that matter.

So now we're supposed to understand the nuances of Belgian politics, huh? Like, the right language in which to write "Autobahn Extension -- France this way!" in different parts of the country?

re: #188 Owl Thank you - I'm afraid it took me so long to type that and spell check it and preview it, that by the time it got posted (my #166, I mean!) that you might have left the thread.
I'm just sick and tired of people defending these damn fascists MoFo's with all sorts of either personal attacks on Charles/LGF/posters at LGF , or just plain dissembling to deflect everyone from the real facts: those folks are indeed Fascists and definitely Anti-Semites.
I don't want them on MY side of the war against Global Jihad, and most certainly don't care to be associated with them in anyway.

[Link: www.holocaustforgotten.com...]

The Holocaust is usually taught as the mass genocide of almost six million Jews in Europe during World War II. But, more than five million others were also persecuted, tortured, tattooed and killed. These five million included innocent citizens - men women and children. Many of these died for their race or their beliefs. Many of these died while helping their Jewish neighbors. They too deserve their place in history.

Envy leads to a steady diet of eating crow. Those that do not understand the tactics that the NASDP (Nazis) used to carry them to power are doomed to repeat the errors made evident by the history of events and will be fortunate if the only consequence is a diet of crow. For 10s of millions of others, between 1933 and 1945, the price was death.

re: #219 McNug

OT relatively good news:

The Anarchist wing of the Democratic base is attacking Ron Paul

Do you have the Twilight Zone music playing in the background?

Somedays, I swear I must be from another dimension and got dropped off in la-la land by mistake.

The issue will be what to do with "fido" once the problem (hopefully) has been resolved.

I see a corelation between this statement and our arming and training the Taliban against the Russians.

anyone wanna refresher on how that's turned out?

re: #230 jill e

[Link: www.holocaustforgotten.com...]

The Holocaust is usually taught as the mass genocide of almost six million Jews in Europe during World War II. But, more than five million others were also persecuted, tortured, tattooed and killed. These five million included innocent citizens - men women and children. Many of these died for their race or their beliefs. Many of these died while helping their Jewish neighbors. They too deserve their place in history.

Just like the Islamic Fascists—if you're not one of them, you're dead.

re: #203 vxbush

I'm with you. The endless vitriol spewed by Hitler and his regime against Jews makes me think that they weren't viewed as subhuman (as were the Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians and Russians), but as an enemy.

re: #210 nolocon

re: #191 Killgore Trout

re: #185 doriangrey
That's an important feature that many people (Pamela) are missing. Nazi's didn't really hate the Jews as much as they considered themselves superior. Anyone else in their way would have gotten the same treatment.

I don't think that is supported by history. Nazis killed millions of non-Jews, but never with the same level of obsession, design, expense and purpose.

Years ago, I read the US government's psychological profile of Hitler, done during the war. As part of that profile, they speculated that he had a deep personal reason for hating Jews, related to his background. His mother had worked in the home of a very wealthy and well-known Jewish family, and they speculated that his biological father was a member of the household. This was pure speculation, of course, but they brought in various aspects of Hitler to back it up.

#226 calcajun 11/08/07 9:48:05 am reply quote report 0

"My point is, if these far-right groups are, seemingly, the only ones who are capable of building the grass-roots support to stop the influx of radical Islam into Europe, is it wrong for us to look at them as the only available bulwark against an even more odious ideology?"

Yes... does anyone really have to answer that for you?

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #232 Honorary Yooper

re: #219 McNug

Do you have the Twilight Zone music playing in the background?

Actually, I do! It's on the "temp track" for the short film I'm writing music for this week.

Whoah. Spooky on so many levels.

re: #204 taxfreekiller I nominate THAT for a rotating title! LOL!

re: #224 Killgore Trout

So you think it's the same kind of activity we're seeing now? Those who feel that they are being overwhelmed by "immigrants" will therefore tend toward fascist positions to get back the power?

I'm not buying it. It's been decades since I read "Mein Kampf", but I really feel like Hitler was specifically upset with their special revelation from God.

I'll need to look that up again and see if I can find the quote.

I could go in fourteen directions with this, but I would prefer to stay focused--and actually get a lunch hour today.

re: #31 Spiritualized

I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me?

I believe he's arguing that because Hitler allied with Muslims, Vlaams Belang can't possibly be neo-Nazis because they themselves oppose Islam.

Spurious argument.

That's the way I took it, too, and to illustrate how a Hitler could one minute join with Muslims then turn, here's a link to a Judeophobe post showing how a white supremacist (Vanguard's John de Nudnick) allies with a 1/2 Lebanese (though I don't know if he's Muslim), but reveals his real attitude even calling him a "mud." Supremacists can use Arabs, and supremacists can use Jews. Users all, but not Charles.

re: #129 Killgore Trout

A little bit of googling shows Miniter, Belian, and Vlaams Belang have been friends for a long time. Miniter's not stupid or naive. He knows what's going on.

Well, yes- that would explain it.

Addendum - IIRC, on my 236, I think the Jewish family link was once removed - so it would have been his grandfather who would have been Jewish. Of course, again - who knows? But it would certainly be a potential thorn in his side.

re: #226 calcajun

It's quite possible that if people reject the WNs, many more people will band together in a non-racist way against radical Islam and the immigration problems they have in Europe.

If there were an election in Europe tomorrow where you had to choose btn pro immigration lefties and racist rightie, it would be a rotten choice. But if the election isn't tomorrow, why not attempt to make a better 3rd choice?

Besides the obvious "it's the only moral thing to do", that is.

Quick post and run in between teaching, lunch, and laundry.

Regarding the original story, it looks to me like Miniter simply didn't bother to do his homework very carefully. He is a smart guy, as others have pointed out, but that doesn't mean his intelligence on, say, the lead up to the Iraq war necessarily carries over into contemporary European politics. His leap into the fray, and the comments about Hitler and Islam suggest to me that he hasn't really thought all of this through.

Herein, to me, lies one of the great problems in our current media environment. We have experts, many of whom have made their reputation by being experts on certain things, but then we are sort of expected to accept their expertise on other matters. Classic example: Linus Pauling. Brilliant physicist; also came up with the idea that Vitamin C is the cure for the common cold. His knowledge of astronomy and physics hardly qualified him to speak out on health matters, but in the eyes of the public that was not important.

I am often asked for my opinion on things I know nothing about by newspapers. Generally, I refuse. All they want is the credential to put next to the story. I've been burned enough times to know better.

Anyway, my sense her is that Miniter would have done better to have spent more time researching before getting into this. Now, of course, pride is at stake, and that raises the conflict to an entirely different level ...

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Taken from Wikipedia, so hold your nose:

Particularly prominent is the violent anti-Semitism of Hitler and his associates, drawing, among other sources, on the fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion. For example, Hitler claimed that the international language Esperanto was part of a Jewish plot and makes arguments toward the old German nationalist ideas of “Drang nach Osten” and the necessity to gain Lebensraum (“living space”) eastwards (especially in Russia).

In Mein Kampf, Hitler uses the main thesis of “The Jewish peril”, which speaks of an alleged Jewish conspiracy to gain world leadership. The narrative describes the process by which he became increasingly anti-Semitic and militaristic, especially during his years in Vienna, Austria. Yet the deeper origins of his anti-semitism remain a mystery. He speaks of not having met a Jew until he arrived in Vienna, and that at first his attitude was liberal and tolerant. When he first encountered the anti-semitic press, he says, he dismissed it as unworthy of serious consideration. A little later and quite suddenly, it seems, he accepted the same anti-semitic views whole-heartedly, and they became crucial in his programme of national reconstruction.

Mein Kampf has also been studied as a work on political theory. For example, in Mein Kampf, Hitler announces his hatred toward what he believed to be the twin evils of the world: Communism and Judaism. The new territory that Germany needed to obtain would properly nurture the “historic destiny” of the German people; this goal explains why Hitler invaded Europe, both East and West, before he launched his attack against Russia.

I might agree with your position if he suddenly felt besieged by Jews all around, and thought they were taking over all the businesses and all his potential job opportunities. There's a lot that isn't being considered in this, but I just don't buy that Hitler was frustrated with demographics.

re: #244 Cattt

It's an interesting point of speculation. It depends if they were more motivated by their own perceived superiority or the inferiority of the Jews. I think it's the former more than the latter.

I should NOT have read those YouTube comments after I ate. They made me want to puke...

BHG

re: #226 calcajun With all due respect, if the only way Europe can defend itself from Global Jihadists is to follow the neo-Nazi's, if no one or no group is around in Europe to fight the Islamic Jihadists, other than the Neo-Nazi's, then Europe is done for. Either they wind up submitting to the Jihadists or being run by fascists. I would hope and expect that Europe is better than that; if it isn't then they will have the government they deserve.

Okay, out for lunch...

I call the house painter SHITler

re: #247 vxbush

I might agree with your position if he suddenly felt besieged by Jews all around, and thought they were taking over all the businesses and all his potential job opportunities. There's a lot that isn't being considered in this, but I just don't buy that Hitler was frustrated with demographics.

Of course the analogy isn't perfect. There was a long history of Jews in Europe so the animosity was around much longer. Also, Jews were prosperous in Europe unlike Muslims today who are more likely to be poor and a drain on social services.

re: #31 Spiritualized

I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me?

I believe he's arguing that because Hitler allied with Muslims, Vlaams Belang can't possibly be neo-Nazis because they themselves oppose Islam.

Spurious argument.

Yep, it's absurd. They really think Hitler would have still been allies with Muslims if they were challenging his power? They were useful, nothing more, and in the 30's-40's they posed no serious threat to the industrialized West. Hitler may have liked the warlike and anti-Jewish aspects of Islam but had he been victorious, he would have ruthlessly crushed any nascent efforts to spread Islam beyond its current borders or restore the Caliphate.

re: #208 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I have read Mein Kampf and tend to agree with Killgore Trout. What happened was very simple. Hitler himself was a anti-Semite and a racist, but more of a speaker than doer in his Antisemitism and a racism. In Mein Kampf he builds a rhetorical strawman as the perpetrator of all of Germany's ills.

He names that strawman Das Juden... From that point on each successive step down the ladder in the Third Reich's ranks acted in more outrageous examples of the antisemitism outlined in Mein Kampf in an effort to gain the favor and approval of their superior officers.

For Hitler Antisemitism and a racism were far more rhetorical means to arouse fear, anger, national solidarity and above all else party obedience than they were a real motivating aspect of his life.

Edit: Nothing I have said here should in any way shape or form be misconstrued as an endorsement of or attempt at minimization of the profound evil that Hitler and his National Socialism were. I am not a Nazi apologist or historical revisionist nor a racist.