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World Gone Nuts

Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 8:18:30 am PST

From the World Gone Nuts file: eighty children at a mosque madrassa in London have written cards and letters to the imprisoned jihadis at Guantanamo Bay—terrorists who were caught on the battlefield trying to kill coalition soldiers: cageprisoners.com. (Hat tip: Tal G.)

Here you can see some of these hand-drawn cards, in the Bring a Smile to a Muslim Prisoner Campaign. Samples:

Don't regret what you did because you stood up for all those who needed you. ...

I hope Allah gives you might and patience. ...

I feel very sorry for you getting caught by the non-Muslims. If I was you I would do whatever Allah says. It does not matter what the non-Muslims do to you. ...

This is so perverse it gave me chills; it’s a form of child abuse, and a glimpse into the intolerant, supremacist indoctrination of Muslim children. These children are being taught to admire and look up to jihad terrorists, people who were fighting for Osama bin Laden. It’s happening in Britain, and you can be quite sure it’s also going on in the United States.

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149 comments

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1 ralph  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:21:28am
From the World Gone Nuts file

Nay The Islamonuts file:

2 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:23:08am

the definition of terrorism means attacking civilians for political gain

defending one's country from unformed military invaders is not terrorism by any normal definition

3 kayawanee  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:23:35am

Somehow, I'm not shocked. I wonder if these notes will actually reach their destination.

4 Engineer  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:24:12am
However, whether or not the cards reach their intended recipients, this campaign marks an important event in the struggle to raise the plight of the forgotten detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Once Muslim children around the World begin to get involved and write Eid Cards to America's so-called 'illegal combatants', it will be a massive set back to America's 'hearts and minds' campaign in both the Muslim and non-Muslim World.

Start the tribunals for the ones we have pumped of all information and then hang them. We need to make it plain that if you engage in terrorism or illegal combat against the US, you die.

5 Elbud  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:24:55am

Dearest Ahmed,

Don't drink the water, fish pee in it.

6 andrew  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:26:32am

#2 Moshe

defending one's country from unformed military invaders is not terrorism by any normal definition

Islamists have no real concept of country or nation as we think of it.

7 kayawanee  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:28:32am

#5 Elbud

Dearest Ahmed, Don't drink the water, fish pee in it.

I don't know if that'll scare 'em, and he might not believe it. How about this:

Dearest Ahmed,

Don't drink the water. The evil zionist Jews have poisoned it. If you drink it your penis will shrivel up and fall off.

That Ahmed would believe.

8 Charles  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:28:44am

Of course "Moshe" the terror apologist robot shows up right on schedule. Please don't allow this automaton to derail any more discussions, people.

9 Engineer  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:30:36am

The trolls are up early.

By the Geneva convention, if you engage in combat without belonging to a recognized army or if you are not in uniform, then you are an illegal combatant and can be shot without trial.

10 Right Wing Conspirator  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:31:26am

#8 Charles

Amen !!

11 Thom  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:31:34am

Aren't there laws about giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Why aren't they being applied? Why is the West sitting around letting these people use our freedoms to destroy us from within?

12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:31:47am

#2 Moshe

unformed military invaders

and who would these unformed invaders be? Globular Clusters perhaps? or maybe some form of protozoa?

BTW, You're an idiot. First off, most of the prisoners taken in Afghanistan weren't even Afghanis, but from other Arab nations, so the whole defending your homeland screed is BS. They were there to receive training on how to kill civilians abroad and were taken out before they had a chance to.

Second, your definition for terrorism is wrong.

Terrorism n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

UNLAWFUL USE OF FORCE, its illegal, and isn't necessarily against civilians.

Now, shoo. Grown ups talking.

13 WaS  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:32:39am

I know this is off topic to this thread - but didn't want to post it in the Turkey thread alllll the way down. These are a series of three emails from a Jewish friend of mine named Tina who lives in Istanbul. It's interesting to get her perspective on all the mayhem that occurred over the weekend over there....

Part 1
Hi,

It is really hard to explain our sorrow and the situation we are in. first of all, I came from Israel a month ago but I could not send any e-mail to you because I was sick.

nevertheless, now there are things that are worse here. we all- I mean all jewish community - feel so bad right now. saturday, the biggest synagogue that is Neve Salom in Beyoglu and the other synogogue that is in Sisli was ruined by the bombs exploded on the tracks an the street. I mean the bombs exploded at the streets. first bomb exploded in a track at the morning in
Sisli at 09.29 in the morning. the people at the streets died both Jews and others. and 5 people died because of the glasses that fell down with the power of the bombs inside the synogogue. at 09.30 second bomb exploded at the street of the Neve Salom synogogue and a guy who was the brother of my good friend aged 19 died when doing security for the community. we are Ok but there are lots of deaths and injuries.... we feel unsafe and do not know what to do right now.... most of my friends' families got injured and they are in surgery. most popular two synogogues were exploded and these were really crowded on Saturday because there were Bar-misva ceremonies in both of them... It is really like a second 11th september that you faced in USA for us. we are in great danger just because of the fact that we are jewish.

I really can not find any words to express my hate and anger. those people who died did not have any fault and they were there only to attend the ceremony.... the son of the rabbi injured too....I do not know what will
happen next. I do not also trust Turkish polices... we are not really safe. they say that these attacks will increase. but life is going on here. we are all fine. some relatives who are not close injured but not so serious. thank you for asking..... but I do not know how the psychological damage of these attacks will end....please tell about you too and say all to your family that we are OK.

Tina

14 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:32:49am

#8 - Charles - Of course "Moshe" the terror apologist robot shows up right on schedule

enough with the slander

I never apologized for terror. I blame terrorists for terror and they should go to prison for a long time for it

All I am doing is making note of your misuse of the term terrorism

By your definition the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was terrorism and the Partisan movements against the Nazis was terrorism

15 Connecticut Yankee  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:33:34am

Meanwhile, in the name of political correctness, Red Cross stores in the UK may not display "overtly religious" items during the Christmas season:

Workers at a store in Ipswich told the paper that they may sell Christmas cards and other holiday goods but none may contain traditional Christian images such as the Virgin Mary, the nativity scene or the city of Bethlehem.

Link: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

16 WaS  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:34:05am

Part 2:

Maybe I was so upset that I could not really express what I was feeling. first of all; Jews here have good relations with the rest of the Turkish people. we ( Jewish community ) do not blame Turks and we do not want to move of course. most of the Muslims died too. what I meant in that mail was, we really felt the terror inside our hearts and it was done because of our religion or Judaism. but I did not mean that we will not have good relations with the Non-jews. we accept each other, we are proud to live together and we respect each other. you felt this when you came here. and you can understand what I mean because you are married to a Turkish girl. most of the muslim police died when they were trying to protect the synogogues and we are
getting sorry for them too... ( of course... ) most of our non-jew friends called us to ask how we were that is why we can not blame non-jews.

I said we do not feel safe because they can do it in every where. It is the fact about our situation. I mean that I do not trust to our government or country. Turkey does not have enough power to protect us ( not only Jews but all of us). this is my thought that I do not trust Turkey to protect its people. we felt it when the earthquake happened... ( sorry for my English
again ). I do not trust to our security or hospitals. when something unusual happens, we are all in a panic and the government stays inadequate for the unusual event.

our rabbi said that if the security on that time was worse ; - both Jews and non jews were protecting the synogogues- there would be 800 deaths. none of
the people who were inside the synogogue died. he says that the synogogues were really well protected. they died because of the crash, glass parts or if they were trying to enter the synogogue. mostly people who were walking on the street of the synogogue, or who was outside the synogogue for the security died. my friend died because he tried to stop the truck that had
the bombs inside and then it exploded.

lastly; i should say we have hate for the international terror, and EL-Kaide of course. and I mean everyone is dying around the world and we are unsafe in everywhere. but we are united right now with both jews and non-jews in Turkey. also Jews inside themselves become more united too.

thank you for your concern and interest. tell me whatever you have in your mind and stay in touch. say hi to all your family and say that we will try to live our daily lives even if it seems harder......
Tina

17 WaS  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:35:07am

Part 3:

hello;

these are just my views about the situation we are in. but I read and talk to people a lot that is why these issues are so deep... of course you can post my e-mails... I will be happy to tell to those people about our
feelings, and thoughts.... thank you for asking... I will be really proud if you all read my e-mails and have better ideas about Turkey...these are my individual reflections and critisicsms but I live it like this and people will take these as personal experience....

there is also one more news. today, all the counselors and psychologists (jews) will come together to decide how we can do to help to our community, and families. people are psychologically hurt and there will be group
threapies in a week or two. I will go to the meeting now and will join to the group.. we will learn how to behave for this crisis situations and help others... this will be a service for our community. that is all for now...

please take care and stay in contact....
Tina

18 Abu Messerschmitt  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:36:06am

Ignore trollbot. Time to look at film (Abu/Viking's preferred alternative to Mr. Holland's Opus)

Feel better?

19 Mordred  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:37:12am

Again we see the complete inability of many Muslims to respect the values and mores of the nation state which gives them succor. The Guantanamo Bay detainees are automatically on the "right" side, just because they are Muslims. End of story. The antion state that gives these people succor, and has rescued them from a poverty-stricken life in some Shitistan, is authomatically 'in the wrong" JUST BECAUSE IT IS NON-MUSLIM majority.

20 Neo_Con  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:37:13am

6 andrew 11/17/2003 08:26AM PST

Islamists have no real concept of country or nation as we think of it.

I agree. The sons of allah are loyal to their tribe and moongod only. National borders are mere checkpoints whose purpose is solely to humiliate them. And that's why the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were a "war against Islam."

21 verbal abuse  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:37:29am

I'm going to send a letter, all right... I doubt they'll like what I have to say very much.

"Yoo R a disspickibble murdorrerus skumm. Sincrley, Billy."

22 Neo_Con  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:38:10am

MashAllah, i believe that sendin out cards to our prisoner brothers, is an excellent idea, for sure. But now let see, if these american dogs let it through to them.

this one made me laugh, LOL !!

23 Sean II  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:38:28am

Al Qaida commander 'anticipates' 100,000 Americans dead in attack

Thursday, November 13, 2003
Al-Qal'a (The Fortress) an Islamist Internet forum, posted the first of a two-part interview with a person who introduced himself as Abu Salma Al-Hijazi, one of the Al Qaida commanders closest to Osama bin Laden.(1) The interview was conducted in Iraq, south of Faluja. The article notes that Al-Hijazi was surrounded by five masked men carrying missiles as well as personal weapons. The following are excerpts from the interview:

In regard to rumors about a large-scale attack against the U.S. during the month of Ramadan, Al-Hijazi said that "a huge and very courageous strike" will take place and that the number of infidels expected to be killed in this attack, according to primary estimates, exceeds 100,000. He added that he "anticipates, but will not swear, that the attack will happen during Ramadan."

He further stated that the attack will be carried out in a way that will "amaze the world and turn Al Qaida into [an organization that] horrifies the world until the law of Allah is implemented, actually implemented, and not just in words, on His land... You wait and see that the balance of power between Al Qaida and its rivals will change, all of a sudden, Allah willing."

Regarding Al Qaida detainees, Al-Hijazi said: "We follow their situation closely... the collaborating governments will pay the price for capturing these heroes who want to revive the glory of their nation and shake off the dust of humiliation and disgrace."
Al-Hijazi added that the "collaborating and treacherous" governments should know that Al Qaida has a long reach and its members enjoy popularity that will not end just because apostate governments detain hundreds of Al Qaida's members. "As soon as the governments detain one of our people, ten like him join us... this is no secret."

Al-Hijazi said that Al Qaida instructed its members not to confront the governments of Islamic countries and clarified that Americans are the main target of the organization, wherever they may be, in order to cause their disintegration and collapse, even if it takes a long time. "We are patient," he added, "our patience will only end with the collapse of America and its agents."

Al-Hijazi also said: "There is no doubt that the demise of America and its collapse will lead to the collapse of these fragile regimes that depend on it... We will not stop until we establish the Islamic Caliphate and until Allah's law is implemented in His land."

When asked about the recent bombing in Riyadh, Al-Hijazi referred to Saudi media reports — which claimed that in the attack Muslim women and children were killed — as "merely media deceit." He added: "This place was under surveillance for many months. Following a thorough investigation, it became perfectly clear to us that the people living there were at least 300 Americans and a large group of Lebanese Christians who had tortured Muslims there, in Lebanon, during the civil war. After consultation, we decided it was appropriate to attack this place and destroy it, including the people who lived there, because it housed Americans and a large majority of Christians holding Lebanese citizenship.

"Since the Saudi government is aware of the sensitivity of this place and that it is a declared target for Al Qaida, it surrounded it with very heavy security. However, we gave our people in Riyadh a green light to destroy it on top of those inside. Allah facilitated breaking into the place and bombing the part in which mostly Americans stayed. As a result, praise Allah, at least 40 Americans were killed, as well as 27 Christians from Lebanon, and a group of citizens who were Muslim; also, at least 70 Americans were injured, as well as more than 30 citizens of other countries, most of them Christians from Lebanon."

According to Al-Hijazi, a Saudi religious scholar who is wanted by Saudi authorities will claim responsibility in a televised communiqué for the bombing "and for other operations to come." He added that the wills of the attackers will be published, apparently, in the month of Shawwal — the month following Ramadan according to the Muslim calendar - when Al Qaida's main website, Al-Nida, is due to be reactivated.

24 Tim K  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:39:06am

I can only hope that England and the US are keeping track of not only the present jahadis, but also the future ones.
That way when the political correct mentality we are suffering through concerning the ROP is over, these people can be efficiently rounded up and kept from harming us.

25 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:40:54am
Defending one's country from unformed military invaders is not terrorism by any normal definition.

Apparently this campaign has not genrated any public outrage, nor a whiff of condemnation. These cards will be delivered by the Red Cross, the very organization whose hospital these jihadi bastards bombed in Baghdad. Charles is right, the world has completely gone mad. We're all totally screwed. At least the Houston Texans won yesterday.

26 FreakyBoy  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:41:05am

Andrew:

Islamists have no real concept of country or nation as we think of it

Exactly...except when it can serve as a reason to whine and seethe; otherwise, in their minds, the world is their stinking fascist 7th century oyster. (bad shellfish can make you really ill, believe me, I know)

27 Thom  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:41:42am

Actually, I think the cards should be delivered to the prisoners.

After the guards have a chance to use them as TP.

28 Mordred  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:43:05am

From a link on that site to the Shariah view of prisoners of war:

Allah has set down laws dealing with prisoners of war. He says in the Qur'ân: "If you meet in battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks. Then, if you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, so there will be a time for either generosity or ransom for them until cessation of the war." [Sûrah Muhammad: 4]

Just and legitimate warfare is a necessity in order to resist aggression and oppression, to defend against enemies, and to overcome those who repress the truth and forcibly keep people from it. War captives follow as a necessary consequence of war. This is why Allah says: "If you meet in battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks." This is quite sensible, since no one would expect anyone to say: "If you meet in battle those who disbelieve, shower them with roses and aromatic herbs." The situation at hand is one of severity and hostility.

War is a part of life. If a war is just, not for the purpose of brute conquest and imperial expansion, nor for aggression and hatred, then such a war has a positive role to play in preserving civilization and removing from it the blights that seek to bring it down. In the Qur'ân, there are two verses that discuss prisoners of war:

The first is: "It is not for a prophet to have prisoners of war until he has thoroughly subdued the land." [Sûrah al-Anfâl: 67] This verse was revealed after the battle of Badr when the Muslims had captured a number of the enemy.

The second verse we have already mentioned: "If you meet in battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks. Then, if you have thoroughly subdued them, the bind them firmly, so there will be a time for either generosity or ransom for them until cessation of the war." [Sûrah Muhammad: 4]

Scholars differ whether this second verse abrogates the ruling of the first. The strongest view is that it does not, since both convey essentially the same meaning. In the first verse, Allah says that there should be no prisoners of war until the Muslims have "thoroughly subdued the land." The second verse states that when they have "thoroughly subdued" the enemy so that they are full of fear and dread, then it is permissible to take prisoners. All this means is that prisoners of war should not be taken before or while subduing the land. There is no categorical prohibition in either of these verses to taking prisoners of war.

The enemy must be subdued in order to break their strength and resolve. After that, prisoners can be taken. The wisdom behind this is obvious. Putting an end to enemy aggression is the primary goal of war. This is why Sheikh Rashîd Ridâ says in his commentary of the Qur'ân entitled Tafsîr al-Manâr: "The gist of these verses is that it is not the tradition of the prophets nor of those who follow them to have prisoners of war whom he ransoms or releases except after gaining some ascendancy over the enemies of Allah."

Muslims aren't allowed to take prisoners of war until they have fully "subdued the land." This means that they must kill any captives they get before they "subdue the land."

Works for me, turnabout is fair play. Wonder what these asshats would do if we applied their own law to these prisoners?


Britain and the rest of Europe is in a heapin'helpin' of trouble, giving aid and comfort and political support to people who think like this.

Fuck, this is so depressing. The Islamists and their dimwitted LLL allies are determined to destroy our civilization. And that means we have to fight the LLLs AND the Islamists at the same time. A two-front war.

29 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:44:01am

Sort of OT: Yesterday, after putting this off for years (because I knew it would depress me), I finally went to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum here in Washington, DC. The permanent exhibit at the Museum is absolutely devastating.

On the same day, the headlines spoke of synagogue bombings in Turkey, and a torched Jewish school in France.

30 john  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:45:56am

Truly sad. My guess if they had a choice to write to Santa or muhammed the child butcher - muhammed would win. This hate starts at home.
I saw a poster at my kids school the other day. It attacked 'child to child' hate in a way as to alert the kids about their parents' evil speech.
Ok, so here we are, promoting to kids to be on the lookout for any kind of 'hate' speech from parents. The islamofascists are actively training thier children to honor mass murders (an no doubt aspire to become one).
Why can't most people see this??? Is the whole world going down the rat-hole? Will these shitbags win if our response to thier murderous insanity is to train our children to 'be careful of what our parents say'?
Sorry for the down post. Been reading too much this morning.

31 roach[deleted]  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:46:41am
32 RIP Ford  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:48:14am

Did anyone notice how many of those post cards had palm trees and lovely beaches? Must be paradise to those cooped up in Britian.

My favorite quote from one of these cards of hope and peace:

We are all counting on you and cheering for you.


Ah, isn't that sweet. Blach. Cough, cough.

33 KenAmmo  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:48:24am

Everytime I hear a politician or news columnist bray about this war on "terrorism", I feel the urge to go postal.

Get a clue, mainstream idiots - Terrorism is only a tool used by the current itiration of Fascism:

Islamo-Fascism

The sooner we recognize it for what it really is, the sooner we'll be able to fight it. Anything else is pure PC-driven bullshit.

IYAAYAS!

34 Evariste's Zaide  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:48:51am

Charles,
"terror apologist robot"
"automaton"
"Please don't allow this automaton to derail any more discussions"

The easiest way to make that happen is to hit the magic "Ban" button.
Make it so, Captain.

Disruptive, inane posts by idiots like this hate-filled twit and regulars' getting sucked in to responding ad nauseam are one reason for my absence lately. Not that my input was ever that important but other former regulars have told me, via e-mails, that they've made themselves scarce for the same reason.

35 jks  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:49:40am

#13 WAS-
Wow..those letters were very moving. I cannot begin to imagine how they must be feeling over there. Thank you for the insight.

36 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:51:29am
Al Qaida commander 'anticipates' 100,000 Americans dead in attack

Yup, SeanII that's the threat. We can source it easily yet the media ignores the comments. There's buzz in the message groups.

But, (AllahDammit!) There's only one litmus test for this item...

37 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:52:54am

#8 - Charles - Of course "Moshe" the terror apologist robot shows up right on schedule

enough with the slander

I never apologized for terror. I blame terrorists for terror and they should go to prison for a long time for it

All I am doing is making note of your misuse of the term terrorism

By your definition the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was terrorism and the Partisan movements against the Nazis were terrorism

38 h-man  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:53:28am

"Moshe" you are an asshole - to compare Jews in the Warsaw ghetto to the foreign terrorists who used the country of Afghanistan to plan and train for their attacks upon civilians is utterly disgusting.

1) Since citizens from the UK, Aus, the USA, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, etc were in Afghanistan how in your thick skullt can you say they were "Fighting for THEIR country"?

2) The Jews of Poland were CITIZENS of Poland, not Jihadists who snuck into Warsaw to blow up, oh i don't know, civilian buildings, etc, and as such your comparison is not only false but it is vile and disgusting - to lump together Jihadist murderers and criminals with a the resistance of the Warsaw ghetto is foul beyond imagination.

FOAD>

39 andrew  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:56:39am

Is it just me, or are posts 14 and 37 exactly the same?
Please ban the bot.

40 Sean II  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:57:32am

Moshe

What the F***K? Warsaw ghetto and Palistinean terror are like night and day! Your anology is nuts...

41 Millie Woods  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:58:27am

Dear little Islamic kiddie,
If you have had your free anti-polio vaccine from the ever generous NHS, you have been infected by Jooooos! Yes, indeedy, those evil Joooos Salk and Sabin dreamed it all up so that you could be injected with a Jewish serum thus insuring that you will never get to paradise. Too late now to do anything about it but you could start a campaign so that the NHS is banned from doing evil to any of your kiddie co-religionists in future. You could call it the be a cripple for Allah movement.

42 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 6:58:36am

#38 - H-Man 1) Since citizens from the UK, Aus, the USA, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, etc were in Afghanistan how in your thick skullt can you say they were "Fighting for THEIR country"?

Why don't we flip your statement around

1) Since citizens from the UK, Aus, the USA, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Russia were fighting in the 1948 war, how in your thick skull can you say they were "Fighting for THEIR country?"

43 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:00:21am

But Andrew the bad grammer is so amusing.

All your unformed military invaders are belong to us...

44 Bierstube  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:00:42am

T H A T I S S O S I C K !

It brought tears to my eyes, litteraly!

45 Rick Z  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:00:56am

Can someone explain to me why the Satanist dogs in the US have an obligation to deliver terrorist-supporting mail to non-uniformed, illegal, combatants, captured on the field of battle, in the first place? The UN, contrary to their belief, have no claim to even visit Gitmo, much less verify delivery of these 'praise Allah' letters.

46 roach[deleted]  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:01:23am
47 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:07:53am

Somebody set us up the thick skull

48 sm  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:12:47am

sure was nice of them to post the addresses of these nice folks for us... hee hee hee.

Check out the Prisoner Profiles - it seems nearly all the prisoners went to Afganistan to help out widows and orphans. Such kind hearted folks!

49 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:12:57am

Moshe, thank you for your continuing efforts to further validate Charles' "world gone nuts" thesis.

Let's see:

Warsaw ghetto uprising fighters (genocide victims) = al Quaeda/Taliban (would-be genocidal killers)

Israel (UN-mandated liberal democracy) = Taliban/al Qaeda-dominated Afghanistan (theofascist terror state)

Freedom = Slavery

War = Peace

and, most of all...

Ignorance = Strength

50 h-man  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:14:35am

Due to my own idiocy my long post to "Moshe" the asshole was deleted - to state again tho, in a shorter fashion, the comparison of International Jihadists who went to Afghanistan to learn terrorism for exporting same in the sole hope of murdering innocents and undermining world democracy for Sharia law, with people who went to Israel to support the only democracy in the ME, to bury the specter of the Holocaust which was only 3 yrs removed and who went there to help this tiny country beat off the armies from ALL of its neighbors who attacked her unprovoked and with the sole purpose of murdering every Jew in Israel, is beyond stupid - it is a whole new realm of idiocy and false moral equaivalence which is so beyond disgusting, so far removed from intellectual argument it is truly not even worth rebutting.

"Moshe" - drop dead.

51 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:19:18am

#12 - Krafar - UNLAWFUL USE OF FORCE, its illegal, and isn't necessarily against civilians.

then the Iraq war itself is terrorism by this definition

when you use something like "were caught on the battlefield trying to kill coalition soldiers" as your definition of "terrorism"

---------

#49 - Occasional Reader - Warsaw ghetto uprising fighters (genocide victims) = al Quaeda/Taliban (would-be genocidal killers)

You said that, not me

I just said Charles' overly broad definition would fit lots of situations

52 Evariste's Zaide  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:23:51am

Just as I expected...
Thread derailment in progress.
Fuck this!
I'm outta here.
Gotta go inventory my canned goods.

53 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:24:26am

You have no chance to survive make your overly broad definition.

54 JWarrior  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:24:31am

#2 Moshe

"the definition of terrorism means attacking civilians for political gain

defending one's country from unformed military invaders is not terrorism by any normal definition"


The Palestinian desire for self rule is a cause that requires political gain. What are they fighting for if its not to gain political power over 'their' territory?

55 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:25:09am

#51 Moshe: Charles wrote:

"terrorists who were caught on the battlefield trying to kill coalition soldiers"

Charles did NOT write:

"terrorists, defined as such because they were caught on the battlefield trying to kill coalition soldiers"

So even your basic, pedantic argument isn't really cutting it, let alone the moral equivalency spinoffs.

The Qaeda and Taliban killers in Afghanistan were terrorists; they favored using terrorist techniques in order to hasten the imposition of a worldwide islamofascist regime. In addition to that, they were caught on the battlefield trying to kill coalition soldiers.

You criticize Charles for a "definition" of terrorism which he did not, in fact, suggest.

Got anything else? I thought not.

56 BookerMatches  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:27:33am

This sounds like another atempt by the greeting card industry to manufacture another holiday. You know, Send an Eid card to an imprisoned fanatic Islamobot terrorist scumbag Day.

OK, the name needs a little work. But they can move a lot of merchandise if it catches on.

If you want to send them a gift, a copy of Al Franken's new book would undoubtedly cheer them up.

57 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:27:58am

#52 Evariste's Zaide:

Just as I expected... thread derailment in progress.

Actually, I don't think this is a thread derailment. Moshe's blatherings are in fact a perfect illustration of exactly the same sort of phenomenon that prompts citizens of a liberal democracy to send "hope you're feeling better" cards to theofascist killers.

58 Neo_Con  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:28:15am

Moshe:

To my knowledge, the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto fought and killed Wermacht and SS soldiers, not civilian women and children.

Your tragically flawed analogies don't require a longer response than this.

59 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:28:16am

OT- This is an illustration of the fact that the ROP has a lot more terrorist types bent on Jihad then most believe. Use it as reference material...

60 Moshe  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:30:02am

#54- JWarrior - The Palestinian desire for self rule is a cause that requires political gain. What are they fighting for if its not to gain political power over 'their' territory?

Well we were talking about Afghanistan, not Palestine

but I'll bite at your troll anyway

When the Palestinians attack civilians, that's terrorism.

When they attack uniformed soldiers, it's not terrorism - it's armed struggle, like any other.

61 rastajenk  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:32:22am

"...You wait and see that the balance of power between Al Qaida and its rivals will change, all of a sudden, Allah willing."

I like that "Allah willing" they always tack on to these kinds of communiques. What if Allah ain't willin'? What's the Plan B for these folks? What if Allah's will is for them to get jobs, build infrastructure, and start acting civilized? I wonder who's sitting on that memo from Allah.

62 brett  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:32:40am

Never forget: it was Allah they called to when they flew the planes into the buildings. They didn't call to Yahweh, Jesus, Zoraster, Mary or any religious figure. As far as I'm concerned Allah's on my shit list and will forver more be.

63 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:36:18am

Allah Damn Straight, Brett!

64 Charles  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:38:12am

This "Moshe" trollbot is out of here. If it comes down to losing valued contributors like Zaide, or banning a lying robot propagandist like "Moshe" ... it's an easy choice.

Please do not post any more replies to "Moshe." He won't be able to answer you; anything else he manages to post will be deleted.

65 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:40:07am

Thanks O' scaly one!

66 KenAmmo  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:40:16am

#62,

Exactly!

67 Neo_Con  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:43:04am

When they attack uniformed soldiers, it's not terrorism - it's armed struggle, like any other.

I agree that attacking uniformed soldiers is not terrorism, but rather guerrilla warfare. But it's a mistake to characterize them as "the resistance" if they only represent the narrow interests of an ousted regime and not the will of the populace.

68 thelordweirdsloughfeg  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:43:56am

hahaha

the jihad b*tches are going to rot in gitmo!!!!

69 Lumiere  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:44:59am

Here's part the CIA's definition of terrorism:


Terrorism FAQ How do you define terrorism?
The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

—The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

—The term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.

—The term “terrorist group” means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.

70 Camel Prophet  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:45:15am

Does this happen in America? DC muslim children are being lectured on the muslim "conquests." And the lecturer, Mohammed Alshareef, posts on the pro-al-Qaeda website [Link: www.as-sahwah.com:...]

[Link: almaghrib.org...]

Freedom of conscience is cheapened when terror incitement is included within rights of free expression. Muslims don't permit defenses of Western intervention in their savage world. Why should we allow them to celebrate Mohammed's rapes, plunders and murders?

DC IS HARDLY THE PLACE FOR CULTIVATION OF ISLAMIC JIHADISM. THE WAHABI FUNDED AL-HUDA SCHOOLS MUST BE BANNED, AND ALIEN INDOCTRINATORS DEPORTED.

71 Shipman  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:45:38am

Thanks Charles.... Moshe was might damn familiar somehow.... from the **onist site I believe.

72 Engineer  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:49:09am

Thank you Charles - that troll has been a pest for several days. Sometimes I wonder if they don't do it on purpose so that we can't discuss what we came here to discuss. Plus trolls raise my blood pressure even if I do the right thing and don’t answer them.

73 Gentry  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:49:27am

From a card on page 1-20

"Dear prisoner of Cuba I am really sorry that you have been caught by the non muslims..."

Doesn't that say it all?

74 JWarrior  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:53:34am

Moshe

I'm sure you like 'biting' a bit of troll, although you seem more of a 'sucker' to me.

The target is irrelevant. Its not the target that makes a terrorist is it? You don't hear anyone saying "Ahmed wasn't a terrorist because he only targetted soldiers!".

What makes him a terrorist is the fact he is not enlisted in an official army and he hides amongst civilians.

75 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:56:37am

A little good news to counter the madness: angry white male John Muhammad was convicted of murder this morning. This afternoon the jury decides if he gets life in a box, or a needle. Of course, the AP can't resist: "Jurors will now decide whether the Army veteran..."

As we all know, the most relevant factor about John is that he's an "Army veteran". Just ignore his last name and his links to the Nation of Islam, and move along, folks, nothin' to see.

76 JWarrior  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:56:53am

Ooops! Sorry, Charles, didn't see your Moshe posting ban!

77 h-man  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:02:46am

Funny story: A few weeks ago at NYC Idiotmedia one of the "editors" published a hate letter from "Moshe Greenburg" or some such idiocy, where "Moshe" applauded the murder of civilian Arabs, beleived they should all be killed and threatened the lives of the Idiotmedia webmasters.

I guess my question is why do these obviously deluded anti semites have to make their imaginary jewish boogey men have names like "Moshe" and so on. I know lots of Jews named Bill, Steve, John, Larry, Andy, etc...i mean come on we know you are pretending to be a jew, but "Moshe Greenburg" (or whatever) is just so obvious.

78 zulubaby  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:07:49am

Thank you, Charles, for banning "Moshe".

Engineer (#72)

Sometimes I wonder if they don't do it on purpose so that we can't discuss what we came here to discuss.

That's exactly what they do, and the important issues get lost. LGF is too valuable a resource to allow this to happen, but happen it does. I know because of my own response to the trolls, even when I try to ignore them too.

79 MB  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:15:22am

After reviewing the web-site for cagedprisoners.com I am awestruck by the madness of the madrass. The cards and comments are completely delusional. I think the DoD should send form letters to the children explaining the likely execution dates for the scumbags.

As I understand the law, most of these scum will never see the light of day and will be legally executed at some time. Seriously, why waste our money transporting and detaining these fuckers when they should have been executed on the battlefield.

Our soldiers know to "put their pistols to their heads" instead of falling prisoner to the jihadis. We expect no quarter and should offer none in kind.

80 Francis  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:24:42am

What's the answer? Deporation? Education?

Help!! The Western world is in trouble.

81 Sean  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:32:45am

Let's send them CHRISTMAS cards!


Name of Prisoner (Nationality)
160 Camp X-Ray
Washington DC 2053
USA

The prisoner list is here.

These guys need some good old Christmas cheer!

82 Ms. Andi  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:41:23am

Dear Gitmo Prisoners

Sorry you are not dead.

Kisses

Ms. Andi

83 kalb caD-di-nee (Abu Pi Allah Mode)  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:52:36am

Hope someone keeps an ear on the translators should these cards somehow get through. Color me suspicious but could there be more to this than cards? Encrypted data? Code speak? Hope they make is as far as a garbage can.

84 The 5th Crusade  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 8:56:52am

How do you bring a proper smile to the illegal combatants kept prisoner at Gitmo?

Fulfill their wish to be martyrs and meet Allah.

Shoot them and bury them in a pig sty.

85 roach[deleted]  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 9:09:20am
86 Collins  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 9:34:39am

Example of a typical letter to Guantanamo

Mary Lynn Johnson
c/o
Dean for President District Office
Takoma Park, Maryland
21006

Dear Ms. Mary Lynn:
(insert infidel name here)

As-Salaam-Alaikum and thank you for the kind letter. Thank you also for the cookies. They were delicious, and I shared them with my fellow unjustly-held prisoners. Except for that laundry-thief Egyptian, whom we, regrettably, had to beat to death.

Please send more cookies - Next time, however, please follow the attached recipe. Please note that ammonium nitrate and potassium chloride are traditional ingredients in my culture.

Sincerely yours,

Ahmed

87 Darleen  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 10:00:48am

OT guys and gals, but I have to crow

Kalee-for-nyah now has it's 38th Governor!!

Life is GRAND!

88 lizzy  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 10:33:18am

last year, we Jerusalem residents were incredibly touched, and thrilled when hundreds and hundreds letters starting appearing in all the store windows in downtown Jerusalem, in banks , notice boards etc from American school kids... we jerusalemites read them all over the city , and never failed to walk away smiling.
found a link about the letters here...
[Link: www.schechter.edu...]
[Link: www.jewishsf.com...]
dont give up hope in this mad world, there is still wonderful things at work too.

89 lizzy  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 10:35:23am

here is more about the letters
[Link: www.schechter.edu...]

90 Rang1995  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 10:52:30am

oh how i would love to send them cards and sweets ..where can i?? :))))

91 Rang1995  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 10:56:07am

just kill them..NOW...families later

92 Joseph  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 11:10:03am

Pretty slick site... Either someone has a heluva lot of time on their hands or whoever's behind the site has a lot of $$$ to spare...

93 observer  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 11:23:52am

francis, #80, asks the key question: WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

There are several--ban on immigration, selective deportation, hard and painful strikes at one or several Muslim sites with massive damage---our intelligence services are incapable of rooting out terrorist cells in several countries, YET we do not hit the countries that support them and harbor them.

So the answer is lamentations, letter-writing campaigns, and growing feelings of anger and helplessness.

Tell me again why the USA and Israel have such wonderful weapons of retaliation.

Keep this up and soon we'll all be SEETHING too. What have we lost? Mind? Heart? Backbone? All?

94 Evariste's Zaide  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 11:41:21am

#88 Lizzy
From your post:
"“Dear Israel,” wrote 8-year-old Jared from New York, “I watch the news every day. I pray for Israel when I walk from my house to my school and sometimes I cry. I wish I could come to help, but I’m only a kid.”

I think Jared is going to be a mensch when he grows up.
I'm all growed up, I pray for Israel, too.
And, yes, sometimes I cry.
Right now, the tears are generated by a compulsion to hug Jared and a shared feeling of helplessness.
Keep praying, Jared. The supplications of the innocent are not ignored in heaven.

95 lizzy  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 11:51:37am

evariste
your one heck of a mench in my book too, my freind!
im glad to know you.

96 Julia the Horrible  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 12:56:57pm

People who do not have something to champion in their own life tend to go after these causes.

They do not see the beggars on their own doorsteps.

They are deluded, malleable doughboys, ripe for the plucking by any group out there trolling for suckers.

These are the people who were sucked into Jonestown and Waco and Heavens Gate.

They become Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, yes even main stream Christians and members of any and other groups that subjugate their free expression for the group cause.

I dont "belong" to anything religious any more. I have my own beliefs, but I dont need a "group" to interact with, to define me, to tell me what I need to believe.

I dont need a "community". I dont need to tithe or pledge to the building fund. I have friends of all faiths and I respect all of them.

I do not feel isolated. I feel liberated.

I perform works of mercy. I pray. I basically follow the two great commandments: Love God, love your neighbor.

And am I a bad person? There is only one person to judge that.

But I dont knock on your door or send you letters or put flyers on your windshield.

Shalom.

97 lmg  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 2:57:09pm

#93:

Keep this up and soon we'll all be SEETHING too. What have we lost? Mind? Heart? Backbone?

Down a little lower.

PC will be the death of us all.

98 Iron Fist  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 4:51:21pm

#93 observer,


Tell me again why the USA and Israel have such wonderful weapons of retaliation.


It's called the last resort for a reason. We can fight the Thirty-minute War two years from next Tuesday if we have to, and be every bit as effective then as we could have on 12 Sept 01.

Den Beste has a better explanation of how we may come to fight the Genocide Wars if this far-gentler attempt to force the Islamonazis to come to reasonable terms.

He says it much more eloquently than I can, but it boils down to the same thing: we're Americans, and we don't do things like that.

Unless you make us.

Then we do it as quickly, efficiently, and ruthlessly as possible.

If you don't believe me, ask the citizens of Hiroshima.

Even better, ask the citizens of Nagasaki.

Japan should have surrendered after Hiroshima. The blame for Nagasaki falls squarely on Hirohito's shoulders.

If the 21st century Hiroshima and Nagasaki are Mecca and Medina, it will be the Islamonazi's fault.

We're trying to avoid it.

But, in the end, we'll do what we must. We aren't going to surrender, nor will we accept our own Genocide.

99 observer  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 5:51:26pm

#98, Iron Fist

Your points, and the essay on warfare by Dan Beste, are reasonable and thoughtful. But you (and he) are talking about historic developments (the modernization and democratization) of Islamic countries that, if successful even in part, will require decades. In the meantime, the irrational hatred that fuels their jihad continues, taking lives, overwhelming a tired Europe by immigration, geaing up to annihilate Israel. When and why will we shift gears?
Re: "We Americans don't do things like that." Er--remember the tonnage we dropped on Vietnam and Cambodia, the number of Vietnames we killed? And how many New Yorkers had Ho killed to deserve that?

100 Macker  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 5:52:42pm

Last words of the Arab Man on the Street:

ABDUL WHAT'S THAT FLA -- .............

101 Ken Hahn  Mon, Nov 17, 2003 7:46:16pm

Each contributor should should recieve a note from the Commander at Guantanamo thanking them for their gift of toilet paper and assuing them that it was being put to good use.

102 vinmachine  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 1:54:41am

In the words of the Wolf, "it's time to get medieval on their ass." We need to take all those guys in Gitmo and just put a bullet in their braincase. Then slaughter some swine and mix the dead detainees with the pig entrails and transport them back to Bhagdad, Mosul, Tikrit, etc. and dump them in the respective city centers. These AQ guys deserve no quarter and we should hunt them down and execute them wherever they are found. On the spot - no freakin trials, no detention, no drawn out expensive legal manouvers - just sweet release from the surly bounds of this dirty little planet. And now I must take a shower, Ta-Ta.

103 Flying Fox  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:31:52am

Seen this?

[Link: forums.cageprisoners.com...]

They're going to remember us 'idiots'? Ohhh, I'm runnin' scared now.

We can, in turn, remember people like Sergeant Andrew Russell, killed in action in Afghanistan, February 2002:

[Link: www.defence.gov.au...]

104 Chaya  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 10:30:13am

I just want to express my sorrow to Tina and the whole Turkish Jewish community about the terror attacks. I understand that the rabbi managed to save the Torah scroll from which the Bar Mitzvah boy was reading. I know they have had good relations with their Muslim neighbors; but perhaps they should think about 'coming home.' Things are going to start getting worse. I left the U.S. to come on Aliyah eighteen years ago and have not regretted it once.

105 americansrlosers  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 2:01:35pm

This is so perverse it gave me chills; it’s a form of child abuse, and a glimpse into the intolerant, supremacist indoctrination of Muslim children. These children are being taught to admire and look up to jihad terrorists, people who were fighting for Osama bin Laden. It’s happening in Britain, and you can be quite sure it’s also going on in the United States.

Charles- u are a man arent u? Cos to me u sound like such a woman. I swear, the thickest and most narrow-minded people on this earth are the americans ( who blames them actually with a pea-sized brain is ruling over them.) U sad sad thing, kids sending cards gives ' u chills-and let me guess, 'they're multiplying.' Get a grip on yourself 'man', strange that that gives u chills- what about images of dead babies with gaping holes in the torsos, courtesy of the US ' operation- liberation of Iraq.' Just cut the melodrama, open your eyes, sorry but life is not a hollywood dream. Thats why 9/11 was such a blow to u guys, Americans never saw killing in their country unless it was in Die Hard.

p.s before u start having another heart attack about how i mentioned 9/ll, my cousin was killed in the attacks so i was affected by them too.

106 Charles  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:05:30pm

You are a hilarious moonbat, aren't you? A rant about American stupidity, chock full of misspellings, juvenile hacker-speak, and radical Islamic propaganda! And it calls me a woman -- no doubt a deadly insult in the misogynistic circles you run in.

And from Britain too! Bonus!

"You Americans with your stupid, STUPID MINDS! Stupid! Stupid!" Bwahahaha!

I hope I'm not keeping you from saying your du'a qunoots, praying for Allah to freeze the blood in my veins and shake the ground under my feet. Better get on that -- my blood still feels pretty warm and the ground feels rock steady. Maybe Sheikh Abdullah Azzam can help you out?

Oh, I forgot! He's dead! Oh well.

107 Melissa  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:17:16pm

Who was the Moonbat's cousing? Mohammed Atta??

108 ms heather  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:29:39pm

#105:

FAT, DRUNK, and STUPID are no way to go through (your meaningless) life.

ESAD, or better yet go back to some Arab s**thole you probably idolize so much.

109 Geepers  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:33:36pm
Americans never saw killing in their country unless it was in Die Hard.

Well that's just the thing, we did see killing in our country on 9/11.

That's why we own Afghanistan and Iraq today. Because unlike you and your pussy friends, we have a habit of kicking ass and taking names.

Ask yourself why you have to send cards to Guantanamo. Its because we own your boyfriends ass too.

110 Conscientious cultural objector  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:40:21pm

These toerags use of children is appalling,
I dont know why the government tollerates these
radical terrorist sympathising/brainwashing establishments. They need exposing for what they are.

Abusing their freedoms in the west to bring smiles
to the faces of anti-western extremists and killers.

I'm going to make sure all the UK press learn about the
bring a smile campaign and see if i cant bring a frown to the faces of these child abusing islamonazis.

111 ramadanadingdong  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:40:51pm

#105

(your nic is SO original - two of the first things you guys need to do to catch up to the rest of the civilized world is to try to obtain an imagination and a sense of humor)

thickest and most narrow-minded people on this earth

Channeling Ian Anderson: Thick as a Brick, dipshit, Thick as a Brick

112 Amos  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 3:53:49pm

Yes americans are stupid, that's why America laggs so far behind the Islamic world in science, medicine and technology.

Teach us, O Muslims! That we might be broad-minded and intelligent like you!

113 Joshua Scholar  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 4:26:10pm

#107 Melissa

DAMN woman, you are hot tonight. The air is shimmering above the monitor from that post!

114 donna  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 4:33:04pm

#109 ^5 Geepers

115 Conscientious cultural objector  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 4:45:46pm

Domain name- CAGEPRISONERS.COM
Registrant Contact-
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Assalamoalaykum! No Information Is disclosed about mpadc To find out more please email us! So the
question is where are we based? in front of a computer!, Wassalams!:) KH

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[Link: forums.mpadc.com...]
- The ordinary person who is not a specialist has to choose sites that are sound and useful, and avoid the sites of the followers of bid’ah and bad sites.

- Boycott sites of the people of bid’ah and sites which mostly contain bid’ah, because participation and discussion are the lifeblood of these sites. It is not permissible to promote the people of bid’ah; we must cause their names to die out and strive to prevent them from becoming well known. The reaction of some of the Ahl al-Sunnah may have the opposite effect. It is not permissible for the ordinary Muslim to read the sites of the people of bid’ah with the motive of just looking or of discussing without knowledge. He should leave it to those who are qualified to deal with it. There is nothing wrong with his telling the scholars about what the innovators are saying, then transmitting the scholars’ response.

Anyone know what bid'ah is?

116 eyehatehippies  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 4:52:55pm

Post 9/11 where every idiot must be heard and surveyed, so to prevent a sometimes violent cry for attention. Moonbats, untill they are ripe for being shot for treason, should still be ignored.

117 Evil Otto  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 5:07:26pm

americansrlosers:

p.s before u start having another heart attack about how i mentioned 9/ll, my cousin was killed in the attacks so i was affected by them too.

I don't believe you.

118 JLawson  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 5:40:29pm

What is bid'ah: "To include anything in religion not made so by Allah () or the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), or to do it with the hope of attaining merit or propinquity to Allah (), or to follow it with the same meticulous care as a religious observance is acted upon, amounts to bid'ah. It really means grafting of a man-made system to the Divine Order of laws or creation of a state within state. "

You know, I'm REALLY starting to dislike Islam. It seems like an incredibly intolerant religion, judging by the writings on the web. The only room available for non-belivers is as a slave, or a 3x6 plot.

That won't fucking cut it.

I think a time when it's going to be clear to the world what Islam is (and protestations that there are peaceful Muslims are one thing - but the silence of that semi-mythical creature is worrisome..) and that it's going to be necessary to take extreme measures to get their fucking attention.

Like that moonbat above. A 2x4 in Afghanistan wasn't enough. A 4x4 in Iraq wasn't enough. Seems like Islam brings out the utter worst in people, and then praises it.

Sickening, watching someone like that moonbat above. Probably a 12 year old somewhere, thinking he's Biggus Dickus because he posted on LGF - yet he doesn't understand how his misspellings and stupidity isn't convincing or funny.

And if he's dead serious - well, one can only hope he grows out of it before he has to make a living for himself.

119 Kylaer  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 5:42:19pm

#117:

Maybe he means his cousin was one of the hijackers.

120 Ali Al-Beheshti  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 5:46:10pm

BS"D

Conscientious cultural objector #115

bida'h is a perjorative term for any type of redactive reading or interpretation of the holey-moley qur'an, or Hadith.

It is punishable by death in any of the countries of the mo'mineen (sacred believers). Don't be confused, we are not talking about radical editing, or wild re-writes, but something as simple as, perhaps, daring to suggest that the qur'an means something more like "struggle for self-discipline" for jihad, not wanton murder of anyone you don't agree with.

121 Geepers  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 6:15:08pm

donna (#114),

^5

?

Oh, And nice photos.

122 Bender  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 7:24:45pm

I love how everyone calls americans losers.

What exactly do we lose do be called such names?

In any case, Charles, you need to hire a body guard. Seriously.

123 Claudia  Tue, Nov 18, 2003 9:52:38pm

Yeah, my first thought was also that his cousin was a hijacker.

Charles, I want to compliment you. You stay above the fray. You don't use vulgarity. You're smart and although I don't know you, I'm proud of you and of what you do.
C.

124 youjustdon'thaveaclue  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 4:58:23am

You guys are beyond humanity in your sickness. When 9/11 happened Iwas so upset. I couldn't understand how anyone could do something so awful. Then in the following months I learnt about the true ugly nature of the Amercian Government and today I have learnt about the true ugly nature of the American people. Reading your comments on a few kiddies' cards revealed to me that you have no respect for freedom or justice for anyone except your own people. You even had horrible things to say directly to the kids. Behind that fake smiling "have a nice day" exterior are wicked hearts. If that is what Amercians are all about then maybe they deserve worse
Its awful when innocent people die anywhere...America, Iraq, China. But Americans thought 9/11 justified for them to go on a killing spree. Double standards is what you all have. They broke every law and convention under the name of Freedom.
You can say what you want about Muslims and their kids. You can gloat how you want about your successes in science and war, but deep down inside you're all scared out of your wits of another 9/11. No one feels safe anymore. On top of that, your "brave boys" are dropping like flies in Iraq despite their expensive toys and costumes.
I just have one more thing to add, do what you want now, play with your little green footballs and hurl abuse at Allah and Muslims. One day, after we all die, some of you will be on your hands and knees begging that very Allah you curse today. Begging Him for mercy. Crying out of regret for some of the things you said and did.

You wonder why you're called losers. Just wait a little longer and you'll soon find out.

125 Flaming Sword  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 5:38:38am

#124

The day will come when every knee will bow, but it will NOT be before anything so twisted as "Allah". There is one God, and it is NOT the mythical piece of garbage that allegedly annointed the pedophile Mohammed.

126 J.D.  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 5:58:46am

#124^^^CHARLES^^^?

127 agitate  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:25:15am
I just have one more thing to add, do what you want now, play with your little green footballs and hurl abuse at Allah and Muslims. One day, after we all die, some of you will be on your hands and knees begging that very Allah you curse today. Begging Him for mercy. Crying out of regret for some of the things you said and did.

Well this explains the lunacy of all your previous comments.

You dam yourself by beliving a lie conceived by a sex-obsessed pervert, spread through vicious violence, and perpetuated through violence, intimidation and sexual dysfunction even today.

May the true God, (not allah) have mercy on you.

128 billhedrick  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:28:49am

You know, I felt bad this morning thinking about my discussion on "cagedprisoners" not because I was called on the carpet for a lame du'a qunoots pun, but because I thought I could deal with these people as reasonable human beings. They aren't, plain and simple. I have a faith that personally constrains me and I always evaluate myself by it, but frankly these idiots who use the Koran to jack off to frankly aren't worth my pixels. They are fools plain and simple and as Solomon said, "answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him." Or in simpler terms, to Islamists: FOAD.

129 JWarrior  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:34:45am

#124 youjustdon'thaveaclue

"One day, after we all die, some of you will be on your hands and knees begging that very Allah you curse today. Begging Him for mercy. Crying out of regret for some of the things you said and did."

WHAT LIKE ISLAM'S 'GLORIOUS' SUICIDAL MARTYRS ARE DOING AT THE FEET OF ALLAH NOW?

I DON'T RECOGNISE YOUR TWIST EXCUSE FOR G-D.

I ANSWER TO HASHEM!

130 BH  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:35:06am

There is no god called Allah
And Mohammed was a liar.

131 JasTox  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:36:54am

Charles, I deeply apologize for what I'm about to do...I know I shouldn't feed the moonbats, but I'm not about to let this one go unchallenged....

#124 youjustdon'thaveaclue
You guys are beyond humanity in your sickness. When 9/11 happened Iwas so upset. I couldn't understand how anyone could do something so awful. Then in the following months I learnt about the true ugly nature of the Amercian Government and today I have learnt about the true ugly nature of the American people.

Our sickness..? OUR sickness? Adherents to Islam call THIS honor and have the nerve, the unmitigated GALL to say Americans are sick?
url=[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

Reading your comments on a few kiddies' cards revealed to me that you have no respect for freedom or justice for anyone except your own people. You even had horrible things to say directly to the kids. Behind that fake smiling "have a nice day" exterior are wicked hearts. If that is what Amercians are all about then maybe they deserve worse
Its awful when innocent people die anywhere...America, Iraq, China. But Americans thought 9/11 justified for them to go on a killing spree. Double standards is what you all have. They broke every law and convention under the name of Freedom.

American soldiers don't hide behind innocent women or children when they're shooting at their enemies, nor do they detonate a vehicle filled with explosives that indiscriminately kills Muslim or non-Muslim. American combat troops do not hijack four airliners filled with passengers and intentionally attempt to crash them into buildings. American troops don't intentionally bomb a noncombatant, international relief agency that's providing suffering civilians with food, water, shelter, and medical care. And no matter how angry the American people get, they don't level and pave over an entire country to get even - regardless of how much they may feel that country deserves it at the moment.

You can say what you want about Muslims and their kids. You can gloat how you want about your successes in science and war, but deep down inside you're all scared out of your wits of another 9/11. No one feels safe anymore. On top of that, your "brave boys" are dropping like flies in Iraq despite their expensive toys and costumes.

Here's a news flash for you: I feel as safe as I ever have. I have the legal right to disagree with my elected government representatives - to the point of voting them out of office if I so desire. I have the right to possess a firearm for both sporting use and self-defense. I have the right to worship in whatever way I choose, whether Islam, Catholic, Protestant, Jew, or Other - without fear or intimidation. These are rights outlined to American citizens under our constitution. It's called Freedom. And it's preserved at a price of human life. I served in my country's military as a volunteer to preserve its way of life - can you say as much? As for the Americans who have given their lives for a better Iraq and a safer America, may God (or Allah, or whomever they worshipped while living) grant them a peaceful afterlife - they died in order to prevent the deaths of innocents. Can the "soldiers of Islam" claim the same?

I just have one more thing to add, do what you want now, play with your little green footballs and hurl abuse at Allah and Muslims. One day, after we all die, some of you will be on your hands and knees begging that very Allah you curse today. Begging Him for mercy. Crying out of regret for some of the things you said and did.
You wonder why you're called losers. Just wait a little longer and you'll soon find out.

At least we are free to make our own mistakes and successes, youjustdon'thaveaclue, and we don't heap the blame on the Jews for our own failures.

JasTox

132 RIP Ford  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:37:50am

#124 youjustdon'thaveaclue

A hardy and wholesome all American FUCK YOU.

133 ramadanadingdong  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:38:08am

play with your little green footballs

play with your little green footballs

And so we shall, scoring touchdown after touchdown...INTO THE END ZONE OF VICTORY!

134 Abu Messerschmitt  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:43:05am

#124 youjustdon'thaveaclue

Aren't you late for an honor killing or something?

135 Bender  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:50:57am

Much like a tribal group - I will support actions that are required to protect my people.

Remember poor soul, the United States created the Marine Corps to protect its people and partners over seas from terrorism, kidnapping and murder. The Europeans paid pennance to get its noblemen back from such fiends, but alas, the United States put an end to this evil. Millions for Defense, not ONE CENT for pennance.

That tradition will live on as long as there are people in this world who call themselves citizens of the United States. And you better thank your god, your ancestors, or whomever you thank - that the United States is willing to stand up to terrorists, kidnapers, and murderers on general principal alone.

It really is too bad that we are the only nation in the world that is still willing to stand up for what is right, still willing to recognize and fight evil. Nobody else will do it. Everyone else wants to try to make the evil ignore them...

Evil doesnt ignore those that hide - it only saves them for later.

136 monsterdog (Abu Bow Wow)  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 6:55:29am

#132

I heartily concur.

137 Jim W.  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 7:06:37am

#124....

Who is this Allah scumbag you people are always talking about?

138 Radian  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 7:26:26am

124 clueboy

mohadammit this guy is fuckwit.

There may be another attack their may not.
I can tell you for sure those pigs at gitmo are gonna crap their pants at the end of a rope with a broken neck.

Don't be fooled we can bomb you from 20k feet, there are plenty of hard harted men who will happily put a three shot burst in your chest and watch you kick. The tali twats figured it out, it is just a matter of time in iraq.

cheers..

139 Sultan of Swat  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 8:05:21am

America's tardy reaction to Islamoterrorism begining in 1978 with the Iranian hostage crisis and culminating at WTC on 9-11-2003 is considered by these moonbats as the cause. In their upsidedown world they will be consumed from the inside out by the ponzi scheme fallacy of socialism and the infestation of neo-facist Islamist goobbledygook. Hey! LLL moonbats, we don't care about you who wears the collective headdress of the submissives ( Islamazoids and socialists). And that includes your new hero, the kaffiyed ranting lunatic Yassar Arafat. America, and its multi-lateral coalition won't be negotiating with terrorists any longer. So you may continue to rant til you are blue in your collective face. Carry on!

140 ms heather  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 8:09:46am

#124

My knee bends, my head bows only for Jesus Christ. No submission here. We only serve the One True God in my household.

Go ahead. Make me a martyr (we have those too in Christianity). It's one of the fastest ways to get to Heaven.

Better dead than Muslim.

141 zulubaby  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 8:28:34am
142 R Cris  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 9:29:35am

After nearly blowing coffee out my nose reading moonbabe, I just gotta say something.

We are at war, it is going to be a long slog, but the U.S. and nations who seek liberty will prevail. This war started in 629 AD and will not stop untill Islam rejects Jihad's three options: Death, submission or conversion. The moonbabes of this world will be hunted down and flushed to their eternal reward (the fun part), like festering old turds...flllushhhh.

143 Geepers  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 11:00:38am

zulubaby (#141),

Thanks for the link. It looks like we're stepping up operations now that we've got some good intelligence.

And you know the enemy is having problems when you hear:

Guerrillas have warned they will assassinate Iraqis collaborating with occupation authorities.

Yes, and the beatings will continue until moral improves.

144 Ratbert  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 11:26:28am

#124

>You wonder why you're called losers.
>Just wait a little longer and you'll soon find out.

Why don't you call Muhammed and tell him that they're having a sale at Neverland? Boys pants are half-off!

145 Barfly  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 12:32:01pm

Sad to say, there are people in the world who are so lacking in self respect that they can only value themselves in terms of who they make their enemies.

#105 americansrlosers and #124 youjustdon'thaveaclue are not just clueless, they are beyond clueless -- theirs is the ultimate vanity that nought matters but them and their cause. Their world is all-or-nothing, and any attempt to reveal otherwise is a direct threat to their worldview, and so must be destroyed.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that ignorance is happenstance. Stupidity requires work.

Some people have never seen snow, for example. That's ignorance. No fault of the individual.

Stupidity requires that you invent some alternate explanation for what is happening right in front of you, even if is to deny that it happened at all. The definition of bigotry hinges on the "unreasonable" attachment to a view, in spite of alternate or contrary evidence. Bigotry requires stupidity. It's hard work keeping the world out!

What you see is bigotry, plain and simple, in all it's stupid foolishness. Be warned: fools are dangerous in large groups and with weapons...

146 eyehatehippies  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 2:03:03pm

#124 Pardon me, my noble, don't you have a sister to go rape? As a follower of the koran, you cannot deny your duty, your holy ethics, that by Allah, rape is the perfect help you can give that sister of yours wearing makeup. Fugetabout You scum. Fugetabout your dhimmi (hippies.) Fugetabout all non-kufr. We're right youre wrong. Yay kaffirdom! Go dar al-kufr!

147 Iron Fist  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 2:40:09pm

#124 youjustdon'thaveaclue,

No, sir, it is you who lack a Clue ™ .


But Americans thought 9/11 justified for them to go on a killing spree.


We have been remarkably gentle, given the provocation. We have lost soldiers because we spared civilians. That is a simple fact.

When we go on a killing spree the Sun will rise both in the East and in the West. And at numerous points in between [Ed. He's talking about thermonuclear weapons, moonbat. I'd pay attention...]

Best pray to your g-d that never happens.

148 Joe Jalbert  Wed, Nov 19, 2003 8:26:28pm

Have a happy Rama-Lama-Ding-Dong!

149 billhedrick  Thu, Nov 20, 2003 5:34:12am

As I've stated before, the difference between a martyr in Christian religions and a "martyr" of the islamists is this: a Christian Martyr dies to save lives, an islamist "martyr" dies to take lives


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