Dawkins on the Truth of Evolution

Science • Views: 4,835

I’m sure it’s going to enrage our creationist contingent even more (if that’s possible) that I’m linking to an article by the satanic atheist Richard Dawkins, but his point on the truth of evolutionary science is compelling and powerful.

Just as you entrust your travel to a Boeing 747 rather than a magic carpet or a broomstick; just as you take your tumour to the best surgeon available, rather than a shaman or a mundu mugu, so you will find that the scientific version of truth works. You can use it to navigate through the real world. Science predicts, with complete certainty unless the end of the world intervenes, that the city of Shanghai will experience a total eclipse of the sun on July 22, 2009. Theories about the moon god devouring the sun god may be poetic, and they may cohere with other aspects of a tribe’s world view, but they won’t predict the date, time and place of an eclipse. Science will, and with an accuracy you could set your watch by. Science gets you to the moon and back. Even if we bend over backwards to concede that scientific truth is no more than that which enables you to pilot your way reliably, safely and predictably around the real universe, it is in exactly this sense that – at the very least – evolution is true. Evolutionary theory pilots us around biology reliably and predictively, with a detailed and unblemished success that rivals anything in science. The least you can say about evolutionary theory is that it works. All but pedants would go further and assert that it is true.

Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a theory”? Perhaps from a misunderstanding of philosophers who assert that science can never demonstrate truth. All it can do is fail to disprove a hypothesis. Evolution is an unfalsified hypothesis – one that was vulnerable to falsification but has so far survived. Scientists generally don’t mind this kind of philosopher and even thank him for taking care of such matters, thereby freeing them to get on with advancing knowledge. They might, however, venture that what is sauce for the goose of science is sauce for the gander of everyday experience. If evolution is an unfalsified hypothesis, then so is every fact about the real world; so is the very existence of a real world.

Read the whole thing…

(Hat tip: Timothy Sandefur.)

Jump to bottom

1116 comments
1 Athens Runaway  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:09:00pm

Hehe, nothing like baiting trolls, is there? :)

2 KansasMom  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:09:44pm

Is Stinky bored?

3 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:10:00pm

Feel free to prove evolution wrong. With. Science.

4 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:10:18pm

Satanic Atheist?

5 yesandno  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:10:46pm

Science is logical.........

But not everything that seems logical is science.

6 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:10:47pm

re: #1 Athens Runaway

Hehe, nothing like baiting trolls, is there? :)

Here, troll, here troll, that's a nice little troll...........


*WHACK*

7 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:05pm

You can bet your Argentine omnivore on it!

8 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:13pm

I am starting to enjoy these. :-)

9 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:21pm

Wonder how many creationist heads are gonna explode after reading this thread?

/getting my popcorn ;-P

10 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:24pm

re: #4 winston06

Me!

11 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:35pm

re: #10 BigPapa

oh no...

12 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:11:35pm

From the Boswell's Life of Johnson:

After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."

13 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:12:48pm

I bought Dawkins' book a while ago but havent had the chance to actually read it. Finished Christopher Hitchens book though.

14 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:13:36pm

Ancient Whales Gave Birth on Land

Includes a video.

15 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:14:06pm

From the article: A scientist arrogantly asserts that thunder is not the triumphal sound of God’s balls banging together.

Okay Mr. Smarty Pants. Then what IS it, then?

/

16 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:14:27pm

re: #4 winston06

Is that like a zealous atheist? A redundant singularist?

17 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:14:34pm

Good point about the 747. I wonder if there are still people who refuse to believe in the principle of lift as applied to an airplane wing, and instead belive that if men were supposed to fly, they would have been born with wings? What would some such person be called? An Icarist? Would that person be allowed an opportunity to teach a course in flight school on the basis of educational diversity? Would they dare debate Chesley Sullenberger? I think not.

18 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:14:34pm

Interesting parallel with the movement to 'teach the controversy':

“Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin’s theories as false”. The Muslim leaflets were produced by the Al-Nasr Trust, a registered charity with tax-free status. The British taxpayer, that is to say, is subsidizing the systematic distribution of scientific falsehood to educational institutions."
19 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:15:27pm

re: #16 BigPapa

have no clue.. I normally stay away from militant ideologues of both sides.

20 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:15:28pm

re: #15 Bloodnok

Thunder is his ass blasting last night's heavenly burrito.

21 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:15:31pm

re: #12 Cato the Elder

From the Boswell's Life of Johnson:

Cato..Hope today finds you well..

22 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:16:44pm

Dawkins is so lame. Rabbi Nathan Slifkin is a courageous man.

23 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:16:56pm

re: #4 winston06

Satanic Atheist?

Actually, I think that's an apt description in Dawkins case. Dawkins' view on evolution is one thing. However, Dawkins view on Israel and Jews is another matter. This is a guy who supports the boycott of Israeli universities and a guy who has made what many consider to be antisemitic remarks.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

[Link: www.ynet.co.il...]

[Link: englisheclectic.blogspot.com...]

24 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:17:07pm

re: #19 winston06

Cool, just playin. I have a few atheist friends who fall into the 'zealous atheist' lot, of which I take great glee in pointing out to them.

25 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:17:08pm

re: #20 BigPapa

Thunder is his ass blasting last night's heavenly burrito.

You are a strange dude.

/:-p

26 pat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:18:59pm

Frankly, in your face atheist bother me as much as religious nuts. Both can be right about a few things, both are obnoxious.

27 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:20:15pm

re: #25 Bloodnok

"You can call me The Dude, or, duder, or just dude if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

28 Thor-Zone  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:20:20pm

Sometimes I wonder what we are going to do next to move ourselves back to the 6th century. If you believe in creationism, that's great. Just don't expect everyone to follow along with your version of the world.

29 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:21:04pm

re: #27 BigPapa

"You can call me The Dude, or, duder, or just dude if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

Call you anything except late for dinner, eh? ;)

30 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:22:37pm

re: #27 BigPapa

"You can call me The Dude, or, duder, or just dude if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

You forgot El Duderino and His Dudeness (always worth an upding).

31 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:23:05pm

re: #27 BigPapa

"You can call me The Dude, or, duder, or just dude if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

The Dude abides.

32 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:23:13pm

I'm sensing rage, building up.

33 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:23:14pm

re: #14 HelloDare

Ancient Whales Gave Birth on Land

Includes a video.

Oh like I'm falling for THAT!

They did not even have electricity back then.

34 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:23:45pm

re: #28 Thor-Zone

Sometimes I wonder what we are going to do next to move ourselves back to the 6th century. If you believe in creationism, that's great. Just don't expect everyone to follow along with your version of the world.

Blasting the world economy to smithereens by spending lots more money than ever existed seems to be the dejure thing.

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:24:13pm

re: #32 Charles

I'm sensing rage, building up.

Could just be gas from a burrito.

36 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:24:28pm

For those who aren't reading the whole thing, a great last paragraph:

Coyne is right to identify the most widespread misunderstanding about Darwinism as the idea that, in evolution, “everything happens by chance”. This common claim is flat wrong – obviously wrong, transparently wrong, even to the meanest intelligence (a phrase that has me actively restraining myself). If evolution worked by chance, it obviously couldn’t work at all. Unfortunately, instead of working out that they have probably misunderstood evolution, creationists conclude, instead, that evolution must be false. This one misunderstanding, single-handed, accounts for much of the uncomprehending opposition to evolution that made it necessary for Jerry Coyne to write his book in the first place. The need was great; the execution is superb. Please read it.
37 rightwinger3  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:24:40pm
Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a theory”? Perhaps from a misunderstanding of philosophers who assert that science can never demonstrate truth. All it can do is fail to disprove a hypothesis. Evolution is an unfalsified hypothesis – one that was vulnerable to falsification but has so far survived. Scientists generally don’t mind this kind of philosopher and even thank him for taking care of such matters, thereby freeing them to get on with advancing knowledge. They might, however, venture that what is sauce for the goose of science is sauce for the gander of everyday experience. If evolution is an unfalsified hypothesis, then so is every fact about the real world; so is the very existence of a real world.

Good points. Same with Electricity and Electronics theory which I just happened to have tested today. Voltage is cool in an open circuit. Close that circuit and see what happens. Kind of sucks for a theory to prove itself once again. Shocking actually.

38 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:25:18pm

re: #23 MJ

what a freaking idiot. I didnt know that. Thanks for telling me about it

39 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:25:57pm

The creationist/ID movement is promulgated by folks who call themselves Christians. What these folks fail to realize is that by trying to force their particular brand of belief down people's throats, they are in direct violation of one of the guiding tenets of Christianity; namely that belief in Jesus is a choice, not a forced decision. Their very actions are contradictory to the teachings of Jesus. Not only do they do themselves a disservice, but they tarnish the witness of countless Christians who seek to live a holy life. As I Christian, I find this type of dishonesty repulsive and I pray it stops.

40 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:26:03pm

re: #14 HelloDare

Ancient Whales Gave Birth on Land

Includes a video.

Very interesting!

41 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:26:10pm

re: #27 BigPapa

"You can call me The Dude, or, duder, or just dude if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

"You can call me Father, you can call me Jake, you can call me Sonofabitch, but if you ever call me "Daddy" again I'm gonna finish this fight." John Wayne

42 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:26:28pm
The Guardian reported that, in February 2006, “Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin’s theories as false”. The Muslim leaflets were produced by the Al-Nasr Trust, a registered charity with tax-free status. The British taxpayer, that is to say, is subsidizing the systematic distribution of scientific falsehood to educational institutions. Science teachers across Britain will confirm that they are coming under slight, but growing, pressure from creationist lobbies, usually inspired by American or Islamic sources.


The dangers of Islamification.

43 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:26:50pm

American Idol is pretty good tonight..Review later
But on- topic..It reminds me of something.. If you were to rate your top ten scientists in the world that influence you..No not Einstein.. I mean today..
Who's name do you through into the ring?
I have lots of names to post..But for a woman finalist..Dr. Pamela Gay is in my top ten..How many doctors buy telescopes with their own money to take girl scouts out at night to study the stars? Every so often a wondrous person comes from Harvard..
Ladies and Gentleman: Dr. Pamela Gay...A wonderful scientist
[Link: www.starstryder.com...]

44 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:26:53pm

Creationists just hate to be blinded by science.

Youtube Video
45 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Also of rampant American "Holier than Thou" religious con artists.

46 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:27:47pm
47 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:27:51pm

Anyone else watching the Nova show?

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:28:05pm

re: #37 rightwinger3

No one has ever observed a group of electrons move from one atom to the next on copper wire. Electricity is a lie. So is this computer I am typing on.

/BIG SCIENCE IS RIPPING US OFF!

49 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:28:08pm

re: #37 rightwinger3

Good points. Same with Electricity and Electronics theory which I just happened to have tested today. Voltage is cool in an open circuit. Close that circuit and see what happens. Kind of sucks for a theory to prove itself once again. Shocking actually.

Pfft electricity HAH!
It's magic smoke, very easy to prove too. It works until you let the magic smoke out.

50 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:28:24pm

Alright. Who had "46" in the pool?

51 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:29:03pm

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

52 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:29:14pm

Surely there's another source for that... (my best pleading whiny tone) ? He could be quoting Leaves of Gold, but with ' satanist '______, (fill in with any description after that), you lose moi most people, and I'm not a crazy creatinist**.
**spelling intentional

53 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:29:43pm

re: #45 FurryOldGuyJeans

Also of rampant American "Holier than Thou" religious con artists.

It's a common cause. That's why I get very nervous about a lot of the interfaith dialogues. Many of the common causes these religious groups find are not things that will better our society.

54 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:29:52pm

re: #46 gkriadis

That's not the point, dude.

55 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:29:59pm
Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a theory”?

It comes from willful ignorance.

56 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:04pm

re: #51 Charles

I never thought I would miss Colmes, but he kept Hannity's time shorter.

57 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

I disliked either iteration, but decidedly Hannity with no counterpoint is major suckage.

58 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:23pm

Wow- that was fast.

59 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:30pm

What happened to Alan? They dumped him?
Who's the new lib foil?
I haven't seen more than a minute or two of Hannity in a while.

60 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:31pm

I wish the process of natural selection applied to our financial and auto industries.

61 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:36pm

re: #48 Slumbering Behemoth

No one has ever observed a group of electrons move from one atom to the next on copper wire. Electricity is a lie. So is this computer I am typing on.

/BIG SCIENCE IS RIPPING US OFF!

If all of this is a lie then you are an illusion, probably brought on by my terrible thirst.

62 pat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #51 Charles

Anything is better without colmes. That being said, I only watch Morris (I don't know why) and Rove as guests. Hannity is not to my taste.

63 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:54pm

Here they come.

64 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:30:59pm

Here is an interview [ link in the upper left ] on Science Friday with Ira Flatow? He interviews Matthew Chapman, Great-great-grandson of Charles Darwin and author of Author, 40 Days and 40 Nights: Darwin, Intelligent Design, God, OxyContin, and Other Oddities on Trial in Pennsylvania. He covered the trial in Pennsylvania for Harpers.

65 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:31:01pm

Never happen, but would Steyn ever do TV? He would be awesome.

66 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:31:04pm

re: #21 HoosierHoops

Cato..Hope today finds you well..

Thanks, HH, quite well, and counting blessings. And you?

67 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:31:37pm
68 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:31:40pm

re: #38 winston06

what a freaking idiot. I didnt know that. Thanks for telling me about it

It's the Noam Chomsky Syndrome. Chomsky might be brilliant in his field of linguistics, but he's a moron when it comes to politics and history. Same with Dawkins. Brilliance doesn't seem to transfer well from one academic area to another, at least with these guys.

69 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:32:04pm

Just got done watching a few minutes ago the Nova episode on the four winged dinosaur/proto-bird. It was fascinating not only for what the think about the species development (and evolving) but also for the argument between the "up from the ground" versus the "from the trees" evolution of flight. Did anyone catch this?

70 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:32:25pm

Oh, great..... Randy Jackson is rockin' a keffiyah on American Idol.

71 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:32:43pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

I was not a big fan of Alan Colmes because all he really did was parrot DNC talking points. I honestly quit watching talking head shows years ago because I can't stand two people yelling at each other. I did catch Hannity's show the other day (the one you posted a thread on) and had about the same reaction you seem to have had. Hannity, O'Reilly et. al. are not worth my time, I'd rather read comments on LGF.

72 DuncanIdaho  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:32:51pm

MJ - Thanks for bringing up Dawkins' blatant antisemitism.

I agree with Charles on the evolution debate, but using Dawkins to prove your point is counterproductive. The problem is that Dawkins crossed the line separating the pro-science from the anti-religious a long time ago.

73 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:07pm

re: #67 jcm

Believing and knowing are two separate things, or didn't you read Genesis (the part about the two trees)?

By the way creation of the universe is cosmology and astrophysics not evolution.

It's apparent that reading and thinking are not its strong suits.

Alas but we will never know now for sure since he has been yet another participant in the Great Creationist Purge of 2009.

74 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:09pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

I think it's just as awful now as it always was.

75 rightwinger3  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:17pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

I like Hannity by himself.

76 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:24pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

Wow- that was fast.

I predict the next one between 90-105

77 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:33pm

Hannity's schtick just is .... schticky. He get's a little redundant and predicable.

78 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:38pm

re: #70 tradewind

Oh, great..... Randy Jackson is rockin' a keffiyah on American Idol.

Is he really? If so, "You screwed up, dog!".

79 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:33:50pm

re: #72 DuncanIdaho

Thanks for bringing up Dawkins' blatant antisemitism.


What evidence is there that Dawkins is an antisemite?

80 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:34:18pm
81 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:34:18pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

I get the same feeling.
The show was way better when Colmes, the weasely little lefty who never met a commie dictator he didn't like, was part of it.
Talk about a paradox....

82 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:34:24pm

This is the guy who said aliens brought life to earth, right?
I saw it on You Tube, don't know if it is still there.

83 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #78 Bloodnok

He is really.
/Shiite/.

84 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:35:13pm

D'oh!

Don't quote trolls.

This rounds on me I guess!

85 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:35:33pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

What evidence is there that Dawkins is an antisemite?

"Jews monopolize American policy" -- Dawkins

86 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:35:51pm

re: #84 jcm

I learned that lesson the same way you did. The reply button works well when responding to a troll.

87 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:35:54pm

re: #84 jcm

D'oh!

Don't quote trolls.

This rounds on me I guess!

Heh. Make mine 20 year old Scotch, thank you very much. ;)

88 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:36:11pm

re: #83 tradewind

He is really.
/Shiite/.

I just tuned in (first time ever)- I'm not sure if that is the official keffiyeh.

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:36:35pm

re: #61 USBeast

If all of this is a lie then you are an illusion, probably brought on by my terrible thirst.

And not a hatchling in sight to fetch you a drink. What a shame. I'd toss ya beer, but I'm fresh out. Plus, I am an illusion.

90 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:11pm

re: #86 Jetpilot1101

I learned that lesson the same way you did. The reply button works well when responding to a troll.

I know it too! Makes it worse!

91 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:15pm

re: #82 mean Gene

This is the guy who said aliens brought life to earth, right?
I saw it on You Tube, don't know if it is still there.

It's a common smear from creationists.....
Dawkins defends comments about "Alien Designers".

...life could conceivably have been seeded on Earth by an alien intelligence from another planet (Francis Crick and Leslie Orgel suggested something similar -- semi tongue-in-cheek). The conclusion I was heading towards was that, even in the highly unlikely event that some such 'Directed Panspermia' was responsible for designing life on this planet, the alien beings would THEMSELVES have to have evolved, if not by Darwinian selection, by some equivalent 'crane' (to quote Dan Dennett). My point here was that design can never be an ULTIMATE explanation for organized complexity. Even if life on Earth was seeded by intelligent designers on another planet, and even if the alien life form was itself seeded four billion years earlier, the regress must ultimately be terminated (and we have only some 13 billion years to play with because of the finite age of the universe). Organized complexity cannot just spontaneously happen.

92 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:25pm

re: #74 reine.de.tout

I think it's just as awful now as it always was.

Yeah, it's pretty awful. Between O'Reily's constant need to be the center of every story and Hannity's constant repetition of the same points over and over again, I've given up on Fox.

93 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:31pm

re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth

And not a hatchling in sight to fetch you a drink. What a shame. I'd toss ya beer, but I'm fresh out. Plus, I am an illusion.

No, you exist; I'm the figment of my imagination.

94 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:32pm

re: #88 Bloodnok

Actually it could be the real thing.

95 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:37:50pm

I love this article best because he is blowing holes in the soft and pseudo science deconstructionism of the left as much as that of religion.

96 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:12pm

re: #80 buzzsawmonkey

Why would the great-great-grandson of Charles Darwin be of necessity any more knowledgeable about anything related to Darwin and evolution than anyone else? Yes, he might have some interesting family stories about how CD got potted on sherry at Christmas, but to suggest that the bloodline imparts to him any innately greater knowledge than someone else seems more Lamarckian than Darwinian.

Because he's got a British accent. /

97 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:19pm

re: #88 Bloodnok

I wasn't certifying it as halal . But it sure has the whiff of the keffiyah to me. If Rachael Ray caught flak for her scarf, this one is way worse.

98 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:23pm

re: #73 FurryOldGuyJeans

FOGJ was kind enough to preserve my [deleted] response to the troll.

99 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:30pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

KT, your quote reminds me of tall piles of turtles.

100 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:36pm

re: #66 Cato the Elder

Thanks, HH, quite well, and counting blessings. And you?

That's great Cato..Everything is cool here..
ah Cato..Could you change your Avatar to either Brad Pitt or a Brazilian super model please? LOL
I.just.can't.click.that.picture.one.more.time
/ *wink*

101 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:43pm

Evolution is science.
Creationism is religion.

Nary the twain should meet. That being said, keep them seperate and you can have both without having a matter/anti-matter explosion. :)

102 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:43pm

re: #85 Alouette


"When you think about how fantastically successful the Jewish lobby has been, though, in fact, they are less numerous I am told - religious Jews anyway - than atheists and (yet they) more or less monopolize American foreign policy as far as many people can see. So if atheists could achieve a small fraction of that influence, the world would be a better place."


Ah, the moonbat AIPAC thing.

103 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:38:59pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

Every great combatant needs challenging opposition. Ali's greatness was established by the quality of the men he beat.

Colmes, being a Leftie, was at a serious disadvantage but he still held his own. Hannity is now fighting exhibition matches.

104 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:39:01pm
105 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:39:15pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

Yeah it was! I hardly had my jacket off in the other one.

106 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:39:19pm

re: #98 jcm

FOGJ was kind enough to preserve my [deleted] response to the troll.

I saw its post disappear so I knew yours was in need of rescue. ;)

107 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:39:35pm

re: #99 mean Gene

Long live the Turtle Stack!

108 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:39:48pm

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, well, then--pardon me for asking.

What, did you just break wind or something?

109 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:40:00pm

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, well, then--pardon me for asking.

Sure, no problem. Just don't let it happen again. /

110 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:40:04pm

re: #106 FurryOldGuyJeans

I saw its post disappear so I knew yours was in need of rescue. ;)

LOL! It's been that kind of day!

111 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:40:25pm
112 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:40:38pm

re: #57 FurryOldGuyJeans

I disliked either iteration, but decidedly Hannity with no counterpoint is major suckage.

Leave Hannity alone!

113 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:40:50pm

re: #105 Afrocity

Yeah it was! I hardly had my jacket off in the other one.

Sometimes Stinky is faster than light even when it comes to trolls and socks. ;)

114 tradewind  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:41:02pm

re: #94 Bloodnok

I'll be okay unless he wraps it around his head.

115 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:41:30pm

re: #111 buzzsawmonkey

No. But I shall now.

You'll have to wait for me, then. ;)

116 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:41:51pm

re: #103 USBeast

Every great combatant needs challenging opposition. Ali's greatness was established by the quality of the men he beat.

Colmes, being a Leftie, was at a serious disadvantage but he still held his own. Hannity is now fighting exhibition matches.

Like Rocky Balboa at the beginning of Rocky III?

117 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:01pm
Evolution is, after all, the true story of why we all exist, and an exhilaratingly powerful and satisfying explanation.

Actually I disagree with those points. Its not the story of why we exist. And while it is exhileratingly powerful, its not really all a very satisfying explanation. We don't know more than we do. I wish we knew more.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:20pm

Hello Evening Lizards!

I'm still reeling over Phyllis Chesler's article. What would we do without her?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

119 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #106 FurryOldGuyJeans

I saw its post disappear so I knew yours was in need of rescue. ;)

You rescued jcm?!?!
WTF!
/all my nefarious plans gone awry!

120 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:42pm

Charles.....since we are on an evolution thread, I have a favor to ask. When you have posted on the Texas State Board of Education I have cheered you on mightily. However, and I can't quite locate the exact quotes, but you have mentioned that the Board president Don McLeroy is a "dentist" and not qualified on this subject. I agree he is not qualified and totally wrong, but I don't think his profession means anything in the debate. I serve on a local school board (and am a chemical engineer/executive) and I think the whole purpose school boards is to have lay personnel in charge. We have attorneys, doctors, and even a pastor on our board along with a professional educator. I think the mix of professions is healthy and in fact a school board of any kind made up of profession educators seems to be to be a recipe for weirdness. Anyway, if I have misheard or misquoted you on this, then my error.

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:43pm

re: #93 FurryOldGuyJeans

No, you exist; I'm the figment of my imagination.

Could you imagine us up a twelve pack? Me and Beast are thirsty.

122 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:50pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Leave Hannity alone!

I got my fill of Hannity a long time ago. You are more than welcome to what I leave behind. ;)

123 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:51pm

I never thought Dawkins was "satanic". An amblyopic, self-righteous, condescending prick, sure.

Friend of Chomsky? Sure.

Possessing a complete and absolutely intolerant contempt for people that think differently than him? You Betcha.

But Satanic? Not really.

I don't believe in Satan. Dawkins and I are aligned there.

124 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:42:59pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Leave Hannity alone!

if it comes out of network TV and you give it any cred than yours is instantly suspect....FOX is garbage and so are it's pretty people...
I hate the MSM

125 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:27pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Long live the Turtle Stack!

I think I'm going to promote this theory as an alternative to ID:

"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."”

126 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:29pm

re: #123 Eric Cartman's Conscience

I never thought Dawkins was "satanic". An amblyopic, self-righteous, condescending prick, sure.

Friend of Chomsky? Sure.

Possessing a complete and absolutely intolerant contempt for people that think differently than him? You Betcha.

But Satanic? Not really.

Deal with what he wrote in this article.

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #110 jcm

LOL! It's been that kind of day!

I'm just back.
What'd you do up there on 67, quote a soon-to-be barbequed troll?

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:49pm

re: #119 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You rescued jcm?!?!
WTF!
/all my nefarious plans gone awry!

No, just rescued a post of his that got splattered by a troll wipage. Your plans are still green-lighted.

129 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:58pm

re: #115 FurryOldGuyJeans

You'll have to wait for me, then. ;)

line up over there....straighten it out

130 SurferDoc  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:43:59pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

Previously it was two people annoying me. Now it is one person annoying me.
Either way, I have never given it more than ten minutes of my time before I changed the station.

131 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:04pm

re: #100 HoosierHoops

ah Cato..Could you change your Avatar to either Brad Pitt or a Brazilian super model please? LOL
I.just.can't.click.that.picture.one.more.time
/ *wink*

Heh.

Wait a minute: Brad Pitt or a Brazilian supermodel? You have, er, diversified tastes, I take it?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

132 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:16pm
133 Ulpianus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:20pm

Though I am an atheist, I generally find Dawkins to be irritating.

He is a determinist, in the philosophic sense, so he can not consistently argue for any ethical proposition.

This was a good quote by him though.

134 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:23pm

re: #117 Mich-again

Actually I disagree with those points. Its not the story of why we exist. And while it is exhileratingly powerful, its not really all a very satisfying explanation. We don't know more than we do. I wish we knew more.

I'd have to agree. It's a story of "how" we exist rather than "why"... "why" is the purview of philosophers not scientists

135 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:26pm

re: #119 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You rescued jcm?!?!
WTF!
/all my nefarious plans gone awry!

Cwurses! Foiled Again!

136 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:42pm

re: #116 Mirage

Like Rocky Balboa at the beginning of Rocky III?

Got me. I watched I and II saw where it was going and missed the next three.

137 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:44:45pm

re: #90 jcm

I know it too! Makes it worse!

I felt a disturbance in the force..
/I hate star wars...and star trek..and galaxy something or whatever with Capt. Kirk hitting on space alien chicks..do you realize that the entire script of star wars movie has been quoted here this last year.. LOL..every single line!
/JCM did you read my latest NYT's bestseller?
The last time I quoted a crazy man?
It's gripping

138 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:45:14pm

re: #127 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm just back.
What'd you do up there on 67, quote a soon-to-be barbequed troll?

Yeah, D'oh! Then Stinky whacked mine.... stings a bit but some ice helps.

139 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:45:17pm

re: #128 FurryOldGuyJeans

No, just rescued a post of his that got splattered by a troll wipage. Your plans are still green-lighted.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHH!
/*whispers* ... "oh goody!"

140 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:45:20pm

re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth

Could you imagine us up a twelve pack? Me and Beast are thirsty.

I'd need to imagine myself 60 pounds lighter and a decade younger first. Wouldn't have much imagination left after such heavy lifting, though. ;)

141 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:45:28pm

re: #120 big steve

Charles.....since we are on an evolution thread, I have a favor to ask. When you have posted on the Texas State Board of Education I have cheered you on mightily. However, and I can't quite locate the exact quotes, but you have mentioned that the Board president Don McLeroy is a "dentist" and not qualified on this subject. I agree he is not qualified and totally wrong, but I don't think his profession means anything in the debate. I serve on a local school board (and am a chemical engineer/executive) and I think the whole purpose school boards is to have lay personnel in charge. We have attorneys, doctors, and even a pastor on our board along with a professional educator. I think the mix of professions is healthy and in fact a school board of any kind made up of profession educators seems to be to be a recipe for weirdness. Anyway, if I have misheard or misquoted you on this, then my error.

I never put down Don McLeroy for being a dentist. I put him down for being a religious fanatic who's doing his best to drag Texas science education back into the Dark Ages.

142 alegrias  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:45:48pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Leave Hannity alone!

* * * *
Agreed. Hannity is a bit of a ham, and is definitely not William F. Buckley, but serves a purpose & fills a void.

Hannity could use a serious, smart leftist debate partner.

143 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:46:05pm

re: #124 albusteve

I like Hannity, Rush, Glenn Beck. I won't apologize for it. To each his own.

144 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:46:08pm

re: #135 jcm

Cwurses! Foiled Again!

ARRGGGHHH!
*twists moustache*

145 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:46:25pm

I've read most of Dawkins' work. But every time I watch him or hear him speak I prepare myself some cringe inducing political comment. The guy literally has a blood libel against Margaret Thatcher that borders on the irrational. But as the piece Charles linked to demonstrates, there are few that can encapsulate the obviousness of evolution the way Dawkins can.

146 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:46:54pm

Ice age fossils found in LA:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The amazing part is that with the botox, expensive facials, and liposuction, nobody knew!

147 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:47:02pm

re: #138 jcm

Yeah, D'oh! Then Stinky whacked mine.... stings a bit but some ice helps.

I missed the fun!

148 Cognito  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:47:23pm

Just like theologians outstep their authority when they make claims about science, so scientists do when they make claims about religion.

Dawkins is fine when he's addressing science; he's off when he wanders beyond it.

149 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:47:25pm

Here's a section that points out how important it is to support science:

One teacher reported that students “burst into tears” when told they would be studying evolution. Another teacher described how students repeatedly screamed, “No!” when he began talking about evolution in class.

Such experiences are common throughout the United States, but also, I am loath to admit, in Britain. The Guardian reported that, in February 2006, “Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin’s theories as false”. The Muslim leaflets were produced by the Al-Nasr Trust, a registered charity with tax-free status. The British taxpayer, that is to say, is subsidizing the systematic distribution of scientific falsehood to educational institutions. Science teachers across Britain will confirm that they are coming under slight, but growing, pressure from creationist lobbies, usually inspired by American or Islamic sources.

Of course I burst into tears when I was told I would be studying trigonometry, but it had nothing to do with religion....

150 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:00pm

re: #142 alegrias

* * * *
Agreed. Hannity is a bit of a ham, and is definitely not William F. Buckley, but serves a purpose & fills a void.

Hannity could use a serious, smart leftist debate partner.

hahaha....Hannity serves a purpose?...nice jaw, decent hair...is there something he's telling you that you don't already know or can easily find out for yourself?....he's a babysitter

151 sinsremoved  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:10pm

I find it amazing that the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly located to make a an eclipse possible. It's as if evolution wants scientific discovery.

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:13pm

re: #147 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I missed the fun!

me too!

153 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:27pm

re: #117 Mich-again

Actually I disagree with those points. Its not the story of why we exist. And while it is exhileratingly powerful, its not really all a very satisfying explanation. We don't know more than we do. I wish we knew more.

I wish we knew more than we do, too. And we will. We always do. But we don't know less than we do. And what we know is more than enough to demonstrate the correctness of evolutionary theory regarding the derivation of terrestrial species, including us.

154 rightwinger3  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #142 alegrias

* * * *
Agreed. Hannity is a bit of a ham, and is definitely not William F. Buckley, but serves a purpose & fills a void.

Hannity could use a serious, smart leftist debate partner.

Good luck with that.

155 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:51pm

re: #143 Afrocity

I like Hannity, Rush, Glenn Beck. I won't apologize for it. To each his own.

Viva la differance, I say. At least it isn't NPR or Air America. :)

156 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:48:55pm

re: #136 USBeast

Got me. I watched I and II saw where it was going and missed the next three.

III had Mr. T in it. Rocky gets hammered in the beginning and comes back to win in the end... pretty formulaic plot. Entertaining watch if you don't have anything else on the menu.

157 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:00pm

re: #149 Thanos

Here's a section that points out how important it is to support science:

Of course I burst into tears when I was told I would be studying trigonometry, but it had nothing to do with religion....

Exactly! Working the gray cells can be painful and difficult.

158 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:16pm

#126 Charles

I'm not a creationist. I lean more agnostic, bordering on atheism. I just refuse to have dismissive contempt for people with a different view of things. We're all trying to figure out what the f*ck it is we're doing here. It doesn't interest me to blast these people. I think they're a wee bit nutty. But Dawkins genuinely despises them. He always has. However he couches his terms and phrases his goal is to discredit their entire foundation. Why?

159 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:18pm

I was just perusing an anti-jihad website that was recently taken off the news and blogroll here.
Nevermind that fact.

My point is this:
The man, Muzzammil Hassan, who CAIR gave award to as a moderate Muslim who just happened to have beheaded his wife, is pictured there.
In the photo his forehead clearly shows that bruise you can get when you bash your head into your prayer rug 47 times a day.....really hard.
So, I guess he's moderate but emphatic in his worship.

160 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:28pm

re: #37 rightwinger3

Good points. Same with Electricity and Electronics theory which I just happened to have tested today. Voltage is cool in an open circuit. Close that circuit and see what happens. Kind of sucks for a theory to prove itself once again. Shocking actually.

If you run a SPICE simulation on some very popular op amps and voltage regulators, the SPICE simulation tells you that the devices are incapable of working. Weather simulations are another area that science lacks all of the answers. Look to science as being the font of honesty and accuracy and you will soon find yourself deceived if you blindly trust the guys/gals in lab coats. Tried a good diet that works lately? Nutritionists like to pass themselves off as scientists. Remember when in the 60s they said that spinach was high in iron? Seems the person who did the analysis in the early 30s made a mistake and science repeated that mistake until someone did another analysis in the late 60s. Good science stands up to scrutiny and good science has repeatable/verifiable results (remember cold fusion).

161 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:54pm

How has the troll whacking been lately? I've been busier than a one legged man on "Dancing with teh Stars."

162 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:49:57pm

re: #151 sinsremoved

I find it amazing that the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly located to make a an eclipse possible. It's as if evolution wants scientific discovery.

oh my!

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:50:11pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

I find your lack of fanboy-ism disturbing.
/

164 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:50:34pm

re: #142 alegrias

* * * *
Agreed. Hannity is a bit of a ham, and is definitely not William F. Buckley, but serves a purpose & fills a void.

Hannity could use a serious, smart leftist debate partner.

As long as it is not Kirsten Powers- Bleech.
As I have said before. Colmes kind sprung this retirement thing on him. Colmes was irritating. Colmes attacked anyone or issue that is conservative with a liberal position even if it involved a person being murdered.

That is just dumb. When he came after the woman who survived a partial birth abortion, and live and tell about it, Colmes came on like an attack dog.

165 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:50:36pm

Who got whacked?
Was it Socrateat of Slobberspace (SpaceJesus)?
Please say yes.

166 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:50:43pm

re: #151 sinsremoved

I find it amazing that the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly located to make a an eclipse possible. It's as if evolution wants scientific discovery.

I think that Mercury has been getting away with things for too long.

167 alegrias  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:50:43pm

re: #124 albusteve

if it comes out of network TV and you give it any cred than yours is instantly suspect....FOX is garbage and so are it's pretty people...
I hate the MSM

* * *
Fox News is not garbage. Brit Hume, Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes and countless other serious reporters are NOT garbage. Beautiful FOX women reporters do serious news coverage of defense & anti-jihad efforts EVERY day.

If you nostalgic for the pre-FOX age when CBS and Uncle Walter Cronkite & Dan Rather told you what the facts were, you are naive.

168 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:14pm

re: #158 Eric Cartman's Conscience

Do you object when Charles posts articles by Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Hitchens?

169 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:16pm

re: #149 Thanos

Here's a section that points out how important it is to support science:

Of course I burst into tears when I was told I would be studying trigonometry, but it had nothing to do with religion....

I had a professor in Partial Differential Equations who could make students burst into tears, usually during exams.

170 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:20pm

Police: Ohio man held woman captive, read Bible

TOLEDO, Ohio – A man held a woman captive in handcuffs and an adult diaper for three days while he read Bible passages to her, police said.

Troy Brisport, 34, was charged with kidnapping and felonious assault. Bail was set Tuesday at $400,000.

He picked up the woman Wednesday night in Detroit after she told him she had nowhere to stay, and brought her to his home in Toledo, about 55 miles away, police said.

The woman told police that after she fell asleep Brisport handcuffed her wrists and ankles, gagged her, undressed her and put her in an adult diaper, then read Bible passages, said police Capt. Ray Carroll.

She apparently was not sexually assaulted, Carroll said.

However, court documents alleged that Brisport tried several times to suffocate the woman using a pillow and blanket.

171 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:28pm

re: #166 Bloodnok

I think that Mercury has been getting away with things for too long.

Nah, Venus and Mars are the culprits in this here scheme.

172 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:37pm

re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth

Could you imagine us up a twelve pack? Me and Beast are thirsty.

A twelve pack!? You are asking the mighty imagination of FOGJ to conjure up a mere twelve pack? I demand a brewery with a comfy bar and barmaids that get off work early.

173 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:51:41pm
It is wonderful enough that we can construct a tree of life based on active genes, and find that different genes agree on the same pedigree. It is even more convincing that we get the same pedigree with dead genes, whose DNA sequences represent nothing, and must be regarded only as the inert legacy of history. How would creationists explain that? How would they explain the very existence of pseudogenes? Why would the creator litter the genome with useless, untranslated variants of genes, and locate them, moreover, in exactly the right pattern around the animal and plant kingdoms to give the impression – the deceptive impression, as a creationist would presumably have to admit – that they evolved and were not created?

I loved this part, as I've been leaning heavily on genetics in my conversations with evolution skeptics- people who just haven't read much about the evidence that supports it. They seem intrigued, then I suggest Ken Miller's book, and hope they look into it more but they do seem interested at least. Just the genetics alone makes creationists look like they're calling the moon the sun.

174 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:52:17pm

Funny line on Hannity.

Hannity...what do you think about A-Rod and steroids?

Gilbert Godfrey...I stay away from steroids, I can't afford for my penis to get any smaller. If it gets any smaller it will be a vagina.

175 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:53:04pm

re: #141 Charles

I never put down Don McLeroy for being a dentist. I put him down for being a religious fanatic who's doing his best to drag Texas science education back into the Dark Ages.

agree agree.....I looked back and it was one of the links that was attacking his profession, not you. I officially fold my tent.

Incidentally, my high school age son is trying to convince me to drive to Austin and sit in the late March Texas SBOE meeting.

176 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:53:10pm

re: #172 USBeast

A twelve pack!? You are asking the mighty imagination of FOGJ to conjure up a mere twelve pack? I demand a brewery with a comfy bar and barmaids that get off work early.

#140 is all I'll say. ;)

177 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:53:21pm

#168 Killgore

I hardly object to anything at all! :)

I'm not objecting to this. You should know this about me by now. Even if I hardly post here anymore. I'm a straight out Ace fan. I love that f*ckin' kid.

178 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:53:27pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Police: Ohio man held woman captive, read Bible

Whacko's On Every Corner?

179 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:53:38pm

re: #159 mean Gene

I was just perusing an anti-jihad website that was recently taken off the news and blogroll here.
Nevermind that fact.

WTF does this have to do about anything?!

180 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:54:03pm

re: #149 Thanos

Of course I burst into tears when I was told I would be studying trigonometry, but it had nothing to do with religion....

I had a religious experience akin to salvation when I re-enrolled in college after the Navy ... and discovered that they'd dispensed with the math hours requirement for Liberal Arts majors. (It was only for a very few years, it turned out, but that re-enrollment semester was enough.)

181 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:54:37pm

re: #171 FurryOldGuyJeans

Nah, Venus and Mars are the culprits in this here scheme.

Fine. Take Mercury's side. (they always do...)

182 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:54:59pm

re: #153 Salamantis

Agreed. Now here is an interesting part from near the end.

..Coyne is right to identify the most widespread misunderstanding about Darwinism as the idea that, in evolution, “everything happens by chance”. This common claim is flat wrong – obviously wrong, transparently wrong, even to the meanest intelligence (a phrase that has me actively restraining myself). If evolution worked by chance, it obviously couldn’t work at all.

He seems to be disagreeing in the notion that random events are part of the process.

183 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:15pm

re: #181 Bloodnok

Fine. Take Mercury's side. (they always do...)

Mercury pisses me off.

184 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:24pm

re: #179 Sharmuta

I was trying to give you a hint so you could see the photo.
Do you think I should have simply linked to it?
Aren't you a loyal Friend of Charlotta?
I don't want to be defined as an Enemy of Charlotta.....what would happen to my pieyammas?

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:34pm

re: #180 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I had a religious experience akin to salvation when I re-enrolled in college after the Navy ... and discovered that they'd dispensed with the math hours requirement for Liberal Arts majors. (It was only for a very few years, it turned out, but that re-enrollment semester was enough.)

hahahah! I was a creative arts major and we could substitute Logic/Philosophy for Math. I thought I'd entered academic heaven.

186 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:34pm

re: #133 Ulpianus

Though I am an atheist, I generally find Dawkins to be irritating.

He is a determinist, in the philosophic sense, so he can not consistently argue for any ethical proposition.

This was a good quote by him though.

This isn't about ethics, it's about empirical science.

187 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:36pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Police: Ohio man held woman captive, read Bible

[self-deleted]

188 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:55:54pm

re: #183 HelloDare

Mercury pisses me off.

Freddy?

189 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:06pm

re: #181 Bloodnok

Fine. Take Mercury's side. (they always do...)

Jupiter is giving me dirty looks so I can't stay and talk. Saturn was mightily peeved as well.

You do not want to know what Uranus did.

190 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:15pm

re: #131 Cato the Elder

Heh.

Wait a minute: Brad Pitt or a Brazilian supermodel? You have, er, diversified tastes, I take it?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

I'm teasing you friend..but really..If i have to look at a picture in an avatar I don't care if it's a Donnie Osmond picture or a Katie Couric in Playboy..Just please no Cato the Elder pics..LOL
/A Katie Holmes Hollywood pic would really piss Tom off so that's extra credit..

191 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:26pm

re: #188 mean Gene

Freddy?

Freddy f'n who?

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:30pm

re: #181 Bloodnok

Fine. Take Mercury's side. (they always do...)

I thought it had something to do with black holes. (keeping gravitational balance in the universe)

/:0

193 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:44pm
194 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:48pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Police: Ohio man held woman captive, read Bible

Gospel According St. Han D. Cuffes.

195 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:48pm

re: #191 HelloDare

Freddy f'n who?

Mercury.
Oh, you must be young.

196 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:52pm

re: #158 Eric Cartman's Conscience

I just refuse to have dismissive contempt for people with a different view of things.

Really? Think about that for a minute. Are you sure you don't have a dismissive contempt for people with a different view on things? First, I would find that hard to believe as most Lizards aren't moral relativists, and second, you contradict yourself with your dismissive contempt of Mr Dawkins.

197 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:56:52pm

re: #32 Charles

I'm sensing rage, building up.


Hows the rage metre going, Charles. Is that whale "thar she blows" or is just rage?

Anyway, this quoted from your into;

satanic atheist Richard Dawkins

If Dawkins doesnt believe in God, as an atheist, then he cannot believe in a satan, as satan is described by God, in the Bible, as His antithesis. He cant have one without the other.

Ultimately, he will, however.

198 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:10pm

re: #192 ggt

I thought it had something to do with black holes. (keeping gravitational balance in the universe)

/:0

Racist Planetist!

199 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:22pm

re: #189 FurryOldGuyJeans

Jupiter is giving me dirty looks so I can't stay and talk. Saturn was mightily peeved as well.

You do not want to know what Uranus did.

Gave you the stink-eye?

200 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:23pm

Anyone seen Walter around?
Obama was in Denver today, did he survive?
Hopenchanged to death?

201 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #192 ggt

I thought it had something to do with black holes. (keeping gravitational balance in the universe)

/:0

I thought that was Uranus's fault.

202 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:38pm

re: #184 mean Gene

Now you're calling your host names?

203 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:43pm

re: #176 FurryOldGuyJeans

#140 is all I'll say. ;)

Understood. Maybe we nonentities should form a committee.

204 rightwinger3  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:43pm

re: #169 Alouette

I had a professor in Partial Differential Equations who could make students burst into tears, usually during exams.

Dang. Just think of what he could have done with the whole thing.

205 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:48pm

re: #193 buzzsawmonkey

It's probably a result of childhood rectal thermometer trauma.

I really don't want to talk about it.

206 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:57:52pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan


Here we go again, another fruit-loop dragging God and Jesus Christ into the gutter of stupidity and insanity.

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:58:02pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

There you go again, Sharm, using logic. ;)

208 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:58:08pm

re: #172 USBeast

What can I say, I aim low. But yeah, your idea is way better. Maybe if we get all our heads together we can make it pop into existence.

On second thought, you should probably leave me out of that. I might loose my train of thought, and next thing you know those barmaids will turn out to be zombies with bees shooting out of their eyes.

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:58:29pm

re: #188 mean Gene

Freddy?

he's dead.

210 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:58:29pm

re: #148 Cognito

Just like theologians outstep their authority when they make claims about science, so scientists do when they make claims about religion.

Dawkins is fine when he's addressing science; he's off when he wanders beyond it.

Nice seeing you Cog..what's up? Long time..hope you are well

211 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:58:39pm

re: #202 Sharmuta

Now you're calling your host names?

Is everyone missing humor tonight?
That was from a Steve Martin movie.
Sheesh!

212 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:59:14pm

re: #167 alegrias

* * *
Fox News is not garbage. Brit Hume, Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes and countless other serious reporters are NOT garbage. Beautiful FOX women reporters do serious news coverage of defense & anti-jihad efforts EVERY day.

If you nostalgic for the pre-FOX age when CBS and Uncle Walter Cronkite & Dan Rather told you what the facts were, you are naive.

fair enough...Hume delivers the news I believe, CK is all over the net...don't know who Fred is..I'm not nostalgic at all therefore not naive...I have the net and a TV when I want it....pop jurnos do nothing for me...FOX is part of the MSM and their big moneymaker is O'Riley...it's all about the money and if they seem to be to the right it's because that's where their money comes from....

213 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:59:27pm

re: #159 mean Gene

There's a picture of this man that's been on LGF for days. But don't let that stop you from taking your cheap shots.

214 Cognito  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:59:49pm

re: #210 HoosierHoops

Nice seeing you Cog..what's up? Long time..hope you are well

Rockin' along, here. Been a bit busy, which has put a dent in my LGF reading time.

You doing well?

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 6:59:55pm

re: #198 FurryOldGuyJeans

Racist Planetist!

no, I am an equal opportunity planetist!

216 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:00:19pm

re: #199 Bloodnok

Gave you the stink-eye?

Who's going to be the first one to dog Pluto? (Really bad pun alert)

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:00:19pm

re: #201 NJDhockeyfan

I thought that was Uranus's fault.

Not mine! Maybe yours.

218 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:00:46pm

"TooDamNice" isn't being very nice.

219 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:00:59pm

re: #148 Cognito

Just like theologians outstep their authority when they make claims about science, so scientists do when they make claims about religion.

Dawkins is fine when he's addressing science; he's off when he wanders beyond it.

But no where in the article does he wander beyond it.

220 Syrah  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:12pm

re: #51 Charles

Are there people who actually think the Sean Hannity show is better now without Alan Colmes? Just askin'.

Because to me, it feels like being bludgeoned for an hour with a very dull club.

My brother used to turn on the Hanity show when I would come over to visit. I would beg him to change the channel to just about anything else so long as it wasn't O'Reilly.

I am sure he did it just to get a rise out of me.

O'Reilly is worse.

221 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:21pm

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

222 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:24pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

I'm teasing you friend..but really..If i have to look at a picture in an avatar I don't care if it's a Donnie Osmond picture or a Katie Couric in Playboy..Just please no Cato the Elder pics..LOL
/A Katie Holmes Hollywood pic would really piss Tom off so that's extra credit..

You're fired.

223 Mirage  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:42pm

re: #204 rightwinger3

Dang. Just think of what he could have done with the whole thing.

Integrate the different parts of the class together? (I know, that was horrible)

224 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:49pm

re: #216 Mirage

Who's going to be the first one to dog Pluto? (Really bad pun alert)

So far no one has bothered to mention Neptune.

225 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:01:57pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

Go for it.

226 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:01pm

re: #184 mean Gene

Ha! That's hilarious.

And now you'll be able to spend more time at that 'anti-jihad site recently taken off the blogroll.'

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:01pm

re: #216 Mirage

Who's going to be the first one to dog Pluto? (Really bad pun alert)

Pluto, unfortunately,has been side-lined.

228 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:07pm

re: #212 albusteve

During the early 60s I found out that if you listened to a variety of news reports that you got a much better image of the truth, than you would had you just listened to say CBS. Sort of like having the truth trapped inside of the viewpoints of the reporters.

229 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:15pm

re: #148 Cognito

Just like theologians outstep their authority when they make claims about science, so scientists do when they make claims about religion.

Sounds vaguely similar to this..

"Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:281
230 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:31pm

re: #208 Slumbering Behemoth

What can I say, I aim low. But yeah, your idea is way better. Maybe if we get all our heads together we can make it pop into existence.

On second thought, you should probably leave me out of that. I might loose my train of thought, and next thing you know those barmaids will turn out to be zombies with bees shooting out of their eyes.

You might be right. There's no telling what kind of chaos might break loose with a bunch of amateur creationists trying to come up with the perfect bar.

231 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:35pm

#196 Sharmuta,

Moral Relativism is one thing. Convincing a person that their God never existed, and therefore their life is misguided, is an entirely different gambit. Dawkins isn't arguing for a different interpretation of religion. He's shitting on all of it. Regardless of my disbelief and personal disregard for the divine hebdomad, I have no desire to dissuade others.

232 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:40pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

oh, please do!

233 Cognito  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:02:44pm

re: #219 Salamantis

But no where in the article does he wander beyond it.

And as I said, he's fine when he's on point.

234 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:02pm

re: #193 buzzsawmonkey

It's probably a result of childhood rectal thermometer trauma.

lmao
It started with a thermometer and has grown to a baggage compartment for smugglers.

235 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:09pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

Not inappropriate at all! It might even end up next to Nekama's Troll Hammer. I hereby encourage you.

236 Paleosapiens  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:13pm

Dawkins did not go far enough in explaining modern society's view of taking so many scientific principles for granted (e.g. flight).
Each and everyone in the U.S. today, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, is dependent on a multitude of scientific breakthroughs and applications for our very survival.

Example(s): How do you survive without total strangers purifying your water, processing your food, building your shelter, and manufacturing / assembling, your transportation?

In other words, if dropped in the middle of nowhere with virtually nothing but your wits - how do you survive? What are the priorities (what do you look for/do first; second; etc.)?

Another point is - it can be proven that people will, consistently, give up their freedom for, perceived, security.
Evolution, unfortunately, presents an enormous threat to many people's faith. That faith, in turn, is of equally enormous comfort and security.
Getting someone to even remotely examine their basic beliefs is not an easy task...

237 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:23pm

re: #200 Afrocity

Anyone seen Walter around?
Obama was in Denver today, did he survive?
Hopenchanged to death?

He must be working tonight at the theater..He was on this morning

238 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:24pm

Good night gang. Be good!

239 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:31pm

re: #173 Sharmuta

I don't know why somebody downdinged you for what you said just there, but I felt the need to ding you back up. =)

240 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:32pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

No.

241 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:40pm

OT: Surge, baby, surge!
Putting Stamp on Afghan War, Obama Will Send 17,000 Troops

The order will add nearly 50 percent to the 36,000 American troops already there. A further decision on sending more troops will come after the administration completes a broader review of Afghanistan policy, White House officials said.

242 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:03:42pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

You go! Go for the Nekama patch.

243 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:01pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

that's up to you

244 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:14pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

...A Katie Holmes Hollywood pic would really piss Tom off so that's extra credit..

Now you're tempting me: Anything to cheese off Short Stuff.

245 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:23pm

Two.

246 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:26pm

re: #239 Summer

Because I put him on GAZE a few threads ago and being the good Christian that he says he is, he's having his revenge.

247 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:30pm
248 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:37pm

re: #151 sinsremoved

I find it amazing that the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly located to make a an eclipse possible. It's as if evolution wants scientific discovery.

There are literally billions of solar systems where such is not the case. In fact, it isn't the case on other planets within our OWN solar system. It just happened to be the case with ours, and could just as easily not have been. Or have been the case on any one of those billions of other systems, in which case we could have evolved there instead, and called it home, and not noticed much different from what we notice here.

249 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:44pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

Good night gang. Be good!

G'night!

250 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

OT: Surge, baby, surge!
Putting Stamp on Afghan War, Obama Will Send 17,000 Troops

Whats the supply route?

251 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:05:11pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

Take a whack at it, pun intended.

252 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:05:21pm

re: #247 buzzsawmonkey

Hot damn, a new word!

Well he may claim to be a good Christian, but he also appears to be a total asshole as well. =)

253 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:05:25pm

Good night all. Getting too late for my blood.

254 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:05:25pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

OT: Surge, baby, surge!
Putting Stamp on Afghan War, Obama Will Send 17,000 Troops

Where you been KT? I posted this hours ago..............I suppose I am just so unimportant that it was ignored

255 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:05:29pm

Sand acting like water.

256 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:01pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

Woops, that last one was for you, Sharmuta, not for buzzsawmonkey. =)

257 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:07pm

re: #248 Salamantis

There are literally billions of solar systems where such is not the case. In fact, it isn't the case on other planets within our OWN solar system. It just happened to be the case with ours, and could just as easily not have been. Or have been the case on any one of those billions of other systems, in which case we could have evolved there instead, and called it home, and not noticed much different from what we notice here.

Imagine a planet with 2 suns and 15 moons. You'd be having eclipses all the time.

258 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:19pm

re: #250 Mich-again

Whats the supply route?

Maybe Hillary's in China negotiating for the Silk Road.

259 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:22pm

re: #253 Jetpilot1101

Good night all. Getting too late for my blood.


Nite 'pilot

260 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:22pm

re: #235 Charles

Not inappropriate at all! It might even end up next to Nekama's Troll Hammer. I hereby encourage you.

okay working on it now

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces... You didn't think I would suggest this without actually having something written first!

261 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:37pm

re: #228 Perplexed

During the early 60s I found out that if you listened to a variety of news reports that you got a much better image of the truth, than you would had you just listened to say CBS. Sort of like having the truth trapped inside of the viewpoints of the reporters.

probably and times change...I don't drool for anybody...if Hannity has something to say fine...I don't run and switch on the TV at a certain time to find out tho...

262 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:38pm

re: #218 Sharmuta

"TooDamNice" isn't being very nice.

Why do you say that?

263 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:48pm

re: #214 Cognito

Rockin' along, here. Been a bit busy, which has put a dent in my LGF reading time.

You doing well?

Ah yes! very well..thanks for asking...
visit more often

264 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:49pm

re: #158 Eric Cartman's Conscience

#126 Charles

I'm not a creationist. I lean more agnostic, bordering on atheism. I just refuse to have dismissive contempt for people with a different view of things. We're all trying to figure out what the f*ck it is we're doing here. It doesn't interest me to blast these people. I think they're a wee bit nutty. But Dawkins genuinely despises them. He always has. However he couches his terms and phrases his goal is to discredit their entire foundation. Why?

His goal is to prevent them from dismantling the scientific enterprise, and erecting dogmatic temples in its place. Which is their goal.

265 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:57pm
266 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:06:59pm

re: #255 HelloDare

Sand acting like water.

ok, that was cool!

267 USBeast  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:07:21pm

re: #254 A Kiwi Infidel

Where you been KT? I posted this hours ago..............I suppose I am just so unimportant that it was ignored

Some slack, please. Not all of us can be here all the time or read every post.

268 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:07:26pm

re: #250 Mich-again

I think everything is still coming in through Kyrgyzstan.

269 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a question for my fellow lizards. I really am a physicist, and I have written rather a lot about evolution and science vs. religion in general. Would it be inappropriate of me to try to compose an evolution troll hammer?

Not at all. In fact, if I had the disposable cash, I would pay you to do it.

270 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:07:50pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

okay working on it now

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces... You didn't think I would suggest this without actually having something written first!

You might bounce it off Salamantis as well, the trick is to be concise on the other hand, so that might not be a great idea :)

271 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:07:53pm

re: #258 Thanos

Maybe Hillary's in China negotiating for the Silk Road.

That might be the best one. I don't know if we can rely on the Stans forever.

272 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:08:05pm

re: #250 Mich-again

Whats the supply route?

details, details, details ...

/btw, up-ding

273 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:08:26pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

OT: Surge, baby, surge!
Putting Stamp on Afghan War, Obama Will Send 17,000 Troops

Warmonger!

274 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:08:32pm

re: #254 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm sure people have been posting it all day here.

275 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:08:38pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

okay working on it now

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces... You didn't think I would suggest this without actually having something written first!

well hurry up dude!....let's have it soon

276 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:02pm

re: #273 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder if the Koskidz are screaming "quagmire!"

277 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:03pm

re: #182 Mich-again

Agreed. Now here is an interesting part from near the end.

He seems to be disagreeing in the notion that random events are part of the process.

No, he's saying that random genetic mutation is not all that it is. Environmental selection is far from random.

278 Infidel_Jim  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:25pm

Hanity is overbearing.
He gives a 15 minute speech before getting around asking his question. In the meantime the guest sits there wobbling his head and wondering when will he ask his damned question.

But he is a little bit better that that imbecile, Colmbs.

Fox is too hung up on this fair & Balanced crap.

279 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:27pm

re: #273 NJDhockeyfan

Warmonger!

War is Good now that the Messiah-King is enthroned.

280 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:27pm

re: #273 NJDhockeyfan

Warmonger!

As usual, I am confused. I thought there was going to be no more war with Obama.

/

281 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:29pm

re: #258 Thanos

Maybe Hillary's in China negotiating for the Silk Road.

heh ... Pakistan wants that too.
She should also be getting clearance from the ISI.

282 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:30pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

OT: Surge, baby, surge!
Putting Stamp on Afghan War, Obama Will Send 17,000 Troops

Is he giving them guns?

283 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:36pm

re: #151 sinsremoved

I find it amazing that the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly located to make a an eclipse possible. It's as if evolution wants scientific discovery.

Its a total coincidence. In fact the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth (a couple of inches per year) so in the not too distant future it won't cover the sun's heliosphere. However millions of years ago, eclipses must have been sensational in that the would have blotted out the sun for long periods.

284 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:49pm

re: #141 Charles

I never put down Don McLeroy for being a dentist. I put him down for being a religious fanatic who's doing his best to drag Texas science education back into the Dark Ages.

I mocked him for being a dentist, only because he seems to think it makes him "sciency" enough to mask his anti-science crusade.

285 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:09:51pm

re: #261 albusteve

probably and times change...I don't drool for anybody...if Hannity has something to say fine...I don't run and switch on the TV at a certain time to find out tho...

The international radio broadcasts were great for getting the news. Listen to the BBC, Radio Netherlands, VOA, Radio Australia, Radio Moscow, etc and you would come away with better viewpoint.

286 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:00pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

I think everything is still coming in through Kyrgyzstan.

Easy for you to say

287 alegrias  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:08pm

re: #250 Mich-again

Whats the supply route?

* * *
Read today that General Petraeus is begging Uzbekistan to let us bring our supplies for Afghanistan in by train with Russia and Khazakhstan's "permission" (for the right price).

This sucks.

Russia is celebrating they got out of Afghanistan twenty years ago yesterday.

288 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:12pm

re: #265 buzzsawmonkey

People confuse us all the time. I've been thinking of changing my hairstyle.

that comb over doesnt do your George McGovern forehead justice...free the fore!

289 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:14pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

Because I put him on GAZE a few threads ago and being the good Christian that he says he is, he's having his revenge.

Oh that... you down dinged me... Not revenge, fun... ;-)

290 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:18pm
291 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:37pm

re: #273 NJDhockeyfan

Warmonger!

KILLER
MURDERER OF CHILDREN

292 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:39pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I'm sure people have been posting it all day here.


The question is, of course, what do the hopeychangey people think of this. I am sure ex-weatherunderground are going to be thrilled to see "their man" beefing up the overseas contingent.
/(just in case)

293 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:41pm

re: #253 Jetpilot1101

Good night all. Getting too late for my blood.

Good night, young 'un

294 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:10:47pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces...

It should be about as long as the original troll hammer. If its a book, it cant be a hammer.

295 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:13pm
296 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:15pm

re: #291 Perplexed

KILLER
MURDERER OF CHILDREN

All we do is air-raid villages!

297 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:15pm

I like how Dawkins addresses the question of "belief" in Evolution. I get asked that a lot, as if it is some sort of act of faith or something. I usually ask them if they "believe" in Relativity, or Gravity, or Atoms in reply.

They don't ever, however, appear to understand.

298 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:17pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

You're fired.

Well that's good news..I didn't know I was hired yet..
WAIT! DuH!

299 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:31pm

re: #290 buzzsawmonkey

And Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Is it 5 Minute Hate time yet?

300 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:11:49pm

re: #285 Perplexed

The international radio broadcasts were great for getting the news. Listen to the BBC, Radio Netherlands, VOA, Radio Australia, Radio Moscow, etc and you would come away with better viewpoint.

some of the last TV news I watched was the BBC to get a feel for another point of view....eventually they really turned me off as well

301 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:03pm
302 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:09pm

Even when I label it "Support I Don't Need", the haters gotta hate.

An email titled, "Andrew Sullivan, eh?"

Creep you out, or give you that special tingle up your leg?

I'm feeling the love.

303 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:13pm

re: #271 Mich-again

That might be the best one. I don't know if we can rely on the Stans forever.

It's certainly an interesting option, and would make some hair grey overnight in Moscow. I think there's already been some dealing done on the Russian side though, we traded something for some other things. Did you notice that the S-300's to Iran are now on hold?

304 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:22pm

re: #282 HelloDare

Is he giving them guns?

No, they get a notebook, pen, and a copy of 'Diplomacy for Dummies.' When they confront the enemy they are supposed to negotiate.

305 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:24pm

re: #294 Mich-again

It should be about as long as the original troll hammer. If its a book, it cant be a hammer.

Now what is wrong with an industrial strength troll bludgeon? ;)

306 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:12:51pm

re: #292 A Kiwi Infidel

I just checked the Koskidz and there's debate about whether it's ethical to spread hopenchange through military force. They're still getting their talking points together but they'll end up supporting it.

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:16pm

re: #283 big steve

Its a total coincidence. In fact the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth (a couple of inches per year) so in the not too distant future it won't cover the sun's heliosphere. However millions of years ago, eclipses must have been sensational in that the would have blotted out the sun for long periods.

So does this have anything to do with climate change™ --perhaps more than how often I walk my dog or blow my nose or any of the other reason's algore minyans have to get my money?

308 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:18pm

re: #300 albusteve

some of the last TV news I watched was the BBC to get a feel for another point of view....eventually they really turned me off as well

Yep, 40 years ago the BBC still had some ethics.

309 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:23pm

re: #297 Summer

I like how Dawkins addresses the question of "belief" in Evolution. I get asked that a lot, as if it is some sort of act of faith or something. I usually ask them if they "believe" in Relativity, or Gravity, or Atoms in reply.

They don't ever, however, appear to understand.

When I get asked that question I say, "no- I accept the veracity of evolution."

It's not a belief, so I don't use those words. I try to correct them.

310 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:27pm

re: #302 Charles

Even when I label it "Support I Don't Need", the haters gotta hate.

Titled, "Andrew Sullivan, eh?"

I'm feeling the love.

They're projecting, Charles. =)

311 snowcrash  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:35pm

An evolution troll hammer would be cool but one that raps like the Large Hadron Collider Rap would be even better. just a suggestion.

312 alegrias  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:40pm

re: #285 Perplexed

The international radio broadcasts were great for getting the news. Listen to the BBC, Radio Netherlands, VOA, Radio Australia, Radio Moscow, etc and you would come away with better viewpoint.


* * *
Wall Street Journal reports from all around the world, and is truly global in outlook, with free market, free people, measurable, capitalist/rational principles.

313 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:43pm

re: #305 FurryOldGuyJeans

Now what is wrong with an industrial strength troll bludgeon? ;)

it may put you to sleep....size is important

314 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:13:51pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

okay working on it now

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces... You didn't think I would suggest this without actually having something written first!

Just a humble suggestion (from someone in engineering who has a bad habit of being long-winded) ... my favorite translation of K.I.S.S. is ... "keep it short and simple"

/living up to it is somthing else again

315 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:14:07pm

re: #309 Sharmuta

When I get asked that question I say, "no- I accept the veracity of evolution."

It's not a belief, so I don't use those words. I try to correct them.

Agreed. =) I just like to point out how silly it is with the same words tossed back at them. =)

316 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:14:12pm

Since there have been a million threads on evolution I thought it was time to have some fun. This site lets you see what you would have looked like 5 million years ago. It's very cool. Try it.


One thing. Could someone tell me how one can save the final image. I was such a cute chimp, but didn't know how to save it.

Go ahead, devolve yourself.

[Link: www.open.ac.uk...]

317 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:14:14pm

re: #307 ggt

So does this have anything to do with climate change™ --perhaps more than how often I walk my dog or blow my nose or any of the other reason's algore minyans have to get my money?

Nope, simple celestial mechanics and friction from tidal forces.

318 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:14:47pm

re: #255 HelloDare

I've worked with water, I know water, water is a staple of mine. Sand, you are not water.

319 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:14:53pm

re: #315 Summer

Agreed. =) I just like to point out how silly it is with the same words tossed back at them. =)

That's why I decided to tell some of the evolution deniers I don't believe in gravity. :p

320 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:28pm

re: #313 albusteve

it may put you to sleep....size is important

And all I keep getting told is bigger is better. ;)

I always thought technique is what matters.

321 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #306 Killgore Trout

I just checked the Koskidz and there's debate about whether it's ethical to spread hopenchange through military force. They're still getting their talking points together but they'll end up supporting it.

They are too busy celebrating the "Obama Save the Us from the Greedy Capitalists Law" just signed in.

I was at the airport in Phoenix when he landed this afternoon. I was going to ask him about my free gas and Federal Government Mortgage Payment Coupon Book, but he drove right by me and did not even say hello.

322 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:38pm

re: #231 Eric Cartman's Conscience

#196 Sharmuta,

Moral Relativism is one thing. Convincing a person that their God never existed, and therefore their life is misguided, is an entirely different gambit. Dawkins isn't arguing for a different interpretation of religion. He's shitting on all of it. Regardless of my disbelief and personal disregard for the divine hebdomad, I have no desire to dissuade others.

Yeah, shame on him for proselytizing his position; after all, it nothing that any religions would ever stoop to doing...

/

323 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:44pm

re: #302 Charles

Even when I label it "Support I Don't Need", the haters gotta hate.

An email titled, "Andrew Sullivan, eh?"

I'm feeling the love.

That comment is pulsating, Charles.
Would you please control yourself.
This is a family blog.

324 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:45pm

re: #312 alegrias

* * *
Wall Street Journal reports from all around the world, and is truly global in outlook, with free market, free people, measurable, capitalist/rational principles.

True, however, all of the articles go through the same editorial staff. I heard things about the war in Viet Nam from other countries that I never heard reported in the US media.

325 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:15:55pm

re: #319 Sharmuta

That's why I decided to tell some of the evolution deniers I don't believe in gravity. :p

Hehe, yes because as we all know, Gravity is "just a theory". =)

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:16:04pm

re: #306 Killgore Trout

I just checked the Koskidz and there's debate about whether it's ethical to spread hopenchange through military force. They're still getting their talking points together but they'll end up supporting it.

hopechange ethics? What about winning hearts and minds?

This is too much for my feeble brain tonite.

327 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:16:15pm

re: #280 ggt

As usual, I am confused. I thought there was going to be no more war with Obama.

/

I seem to recall he promised more troops for Afghanistan during the campaign.

328 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:16:18pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

okay working on it now

actually it will be rather long.... so I will post in pieces... You didn't think I would suggest this without actually having something written first!


please keep it as concise as possable. don't try to lawyer it up

329 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:16:23pm

re: #318 Slumbering Behemoth

I've worked with water, I know water, water is a staple of mine. Sand, you are not water.

I agree. You can't tell somebody to pound water. Just doesn't work.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:16:52pm

re: #313 albusteve

it may put you to sleep....size is important

so, it's a penis thread now?

331 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:16pm

Another meltdown in the 'Mission Statement' thread. Apparently, pointing out that mass deportations would inevitably lead to mass violence is 'unhinged.'

Buh bye.

332 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:21pm

re: #320 FurryOldGuyJeans

And all I keep getting told is bigger is better. ;)

I always thought technique is what matters.

depends whether you are playing a skill position or not...

333 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:26pm

re: #319 Sharmuta

That's why I decided to tell some of the evolution deniers I don't believe in gravity. :p

There are no gaps in gravity. When you drop an egg is falls and breaks. It doesn't disappear for awhile then reappear closer to the ground thereby making you wonder what path it took.

334 alegrias  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:29pm

re: #302 Charles

Even when I label it "Support I Don't Need", the haters gotta hate.

Titled, "Andrew Sullivan, eh?"


I'm feeling the love.

* * * *
Charles,
You're too cool for the haters. And that tingly feeling in the legs is probably diabetic neuropathy Chris Matthews experiences.

335 Perplexed  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #329 HelloDare

I agree. You can't tell somebody to pound water. Just doesn't work.

Come to Minnesota during January. You can tell them to pound frozen water. That works.

336 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:36pm

re: #327 avanti

I seem to recall he promised more troops for Afghanistan during the campaign.

He even threatened to invade Pakistan, so his being a pacifist is a whole lot of hooey.

337 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #316 So?

Hey, that was fun!

338 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:07pm

re: #231 Eric Cartman's Conscience

He's entitled to his opinion and has the right to state it. Regardless of his opinion, it doesn't change the facts when he presents them.

339 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:08pm

A Little Less Hubris
Science and Religion are often portrayed as complete opposites, as if one totally contradicts the other. Popular wisdom would have you think that to believe in one is to entirely negate the possibility of the other's veracity, and vice versa. Some scientists look upon the believer with unabashed disdain. It is unfathomable
to them how an otherwise intelligent person can set aside all rationale and believe some deity or worse, suppress independent thought and enforce a view that has no evidence to support itself. Witness one of the many scathing remarks from Oxford University Professor Richard Dawkins, a British zoologist and Fellow of The Royal Society,
I oppose fundamentalist religion because it is hell-bent on ruining the scientific education of countless eager minds.

This quip from Bertrand Russell also makes the point,
Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.

On the other hand, many a believer views the life of the science-based atheist as a hollow, purposeless life that is missing the essence of existence.

Defining our Terms
Before we go further, we have to clarify for the purposes of our discussion what we mean by science and what approach to faith we will take. Both science and theology have many terms, that when used, mean very specific and carefully defined ideas. Precise language is essential because without it, one can quickly lose the point, or be led to understand something completely different than what is being said. Unfortunately, everyday communication is rarely so technical. Much unnecessary conflict between scientists and believers comes from the misuse of technical words by confabulating them with their everyday meanings. Consider the following (painfully inadequate to a scientist) definition provided by a popular dictionary.

Science is, according to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world."

So science does not address specific truths and specific laws as well?
What is this scientific method anyway? Worst of all, is the “especially as obtained by the scientific method” part because this implies there is at least some science that was not obtained and tested through the scientific method.

I don’t recommend suggesting this definition to a scientist any more than I would recommend suggesting that some pork is kosher to a rabbi.

The message of this paper will be completely lost unless we employ more careful definitions than this.

340 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:09pm

Hey Lizards! Time for my American Idol review from tonight..Ok.. You are at the water fountain in the morning and the question comes up..
One lady blew the house down tonight..She was jaw dropping..just like Carrie was..She was number 3 ..Her name is Alexis Grace..She is top 12 easy..

341 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:22pm

re: #317 FurryOldGuyJeans

Nope, simple celestial mechanics and friction from tidal forces.

I thought the tides had something to do with wind movement? no?

342 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:36pm
343 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:45pm

re: #334 alegrias

* * * *
Charles,
You're too cool for the haters. And that tingly feeling in the legs is probably diabetic neuropathy Chris Matthews experiences.

No, I think that tingly feeling Chris Matthews was feeling was actually a "tinkling" feeling, as he probably pissed his pant he was so excited.

344 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:18:49pm

re: #331 Charles

Another meltdown in the 'Mission Statement' thread. Apparently, pointing out that mass deportations would inevitably lead to mass violence is 'unhinged.'

Buh bye.

You are just being Trollphobic. ;)

345 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:04pm

re: #333 TooDamNice

There are no gaps in gravity. When you drop an egg is falls and breaks. It doesn't disappear for awhile then reappear closer to the ground thereby making you wonder what path it took.

Damn that Reddenbacher. Pop, damn you! Pop! I don't want to miss this!

346 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:05pm

re: #326 ggt

hopechange ethics? What about winning hearts and minds?

This is too much for my feeble brain tonite.


It's broken promise number 56,256 , but who's counting?

Islamist Spokesman: "Obama Continues to Oppress Muslims"

347 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:17pm

Definition: Science means the body of knowledge about, and consistent models of, natural phenomena as only obtained and rigorously tested through the scientific method, or the act of obtaining such knowledge or creating such models through the scientific method.

This immediately implies that something which is outside of the scientific method is automatically neither science nor scientific. Now, “not scientific” does not necessarily mean bad, wrong, useless or untrue. For instance, the notion that one should treat animals compassionately has nothing to do with the definition of science, but has everything to do with ethics. Even though Shakespeare’s sonnets are not taught in Physics 101, they do beautifully express how some people feel about their spouses. On the other hand, “not scientific” means just that, and it can cut two ways. If an idea can not be approached by the scientific method, then it can never be either supported or denied by science.

Definition: The scientific method is the four step process by which the scientific community collectively gathers and analyzes observations of the natural world in order to create tested, consistent, predictive and falsifiable models of natural phenomena. Further, this process demands that the final arbiter of any scientific dispute is observation.

Before getting to the four steps, it is important to note that nowhere in this definition is there any room for democracy, personal preference or being “even handed” with the other side. In a scientific debate, once sufficient data comes in, there is always a winner and a loser. Amongst professional scientists, these debates generally take two forms. Firstly, “does this really mean what you think it means?” Secondly, “did you really see what you think you saw?” Both debates are closed by more data and/or better analysis. Eventually, the evidence mounts and consensus is reached. An open debate implies that there is, as yet, insufficient data, incomplete analysis or both. The final word always goes to the physical evidence itself. There is no “second place.” This is as it should be. Good scientists do not say that the universe is some way that it isn’t, to please anyone.

348 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:20pm

re: #330 ggt

so, it's a penis thread now?

not sure...a pissing contest maybe....

349 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:21pm

re: #68 MJ

It's the Noam Chomsky Syndrome. Chomsky might be brilliant in his field of linguistics, but he's a moron when it comes to politics and history. Same with Dawkins. Brilliance doesn't seem to transfer well from one academic area to another, at least with these guys.

Chomsky applies the same tactics to the field of linguistics that he does to politics. It's well documented, though not widely know or accepted.

/sorry, I know there's a way to link Amazon through LGF but I haven't been able to figure out how to do it.

350 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:26pm

re: #277 Salamantis

No, he's saying that random genetic mutation is not all that it is. Environmental selection is far from random.

He said this..

If evolution worked by chance, it obviously couldn’t work at all.

As I understand it, the prevailing theory is that evolution involves the natural selection of random mutations. And random means "by chance". So I think Dawkins is wrong here to dismiss "by chance" like he did.

351 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:35pm

re: #316 So?

Since there have been a million threads on evolution I thought it was time to have some fun. This site lets you see what you would have looked like 5 million years ago. It's very cool. Try it.


One thing. Could someone tell me how one can save the final image. I was such a cute chimp, but didn't know how to save it.

Go ahead, devolve yourself.

[Link: www.open.ac.uk...]

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

352 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:37pm

re: #344 FurryOldGuyJeans

You are just being Trollphobic. ;)

It's evolution in action. =)

353 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:39pm

The four steps:

1. An interesting phenomenon is observed and described.
2. A hypothesis is formed to explain the phenomenon. A hypothesis usually takes the form of positing: a new or refined picture of some situation, a causal relationship or a mathematical description. It is an “educated guess.” It is patently not a theory.
3. If the hypothesis actually reflects what is going on, it will not contradict other observed phenomena and the existence of new phenomena will be predicted as consequences of the hypothesis. These consequences are identified and searched for. In this step, the new predictions will be the subject of experiment. If the universe does not comply with the prediction then, the hypothesis can not be the correct explanation.
For example, if your hypothesis is that the Earth is round, it is implied that one could go west from England, go all the way around the world, and eventually come back to England from the east. The experiment would be to get on a ship or a plane and try it. If you fall off the edge, then the hypothesis was wrong. This is what we mean by falsifiable.

4. Evidence mounts. Experiments and analyses are done by multiple independent observers. If the predictions of the hypothesis keep coming true and the hypothesis continues to be consistent with observed phenomena, it starts to become accepted by consensus as a correct model of the physical world. If new evidence comes in, that challenges the model, the model is either refined to incorporate the new evidence, and thus, once again, be consistent with known observation, or the model is completely rejected and a new hypothesis must be started back at step one. The latest, refined version of the model, which is consistent with all tested predictions and available observations, is called a theory. Theory does not mean here what it does in everyday use.

354 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:49pm

re: #257 Mich-again

Imagine a planet with 2 suns and 15 moons. You'd be having eclipses all the time.

Yeah; the full moons would be so scrambled, it would be hard to see how menstrual cycles could have evolved to match them.

355 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:19:58pm

Once something has been established as theory in the scientific sense, it is as true as the entire scientific community can tell, to a standard far more strict, than any court of law. The whole point of the independent observers doing independent trials is to remove human error and bias from the process. If 1,000 people show that something happened in 1,000 different ways, what are the odds that all the 1,000 observers were biased and that all of the 1,000 experiments were flawed? Some theories, once established, go for centuries without needing to be refined. By that point, the evidence literally comprises millions of observations and man-years of work. Refining does not mean throwing out either. For instance Newton’s theory of gravity was refined by Einstein’s theory of gravity. However, Einstein’s theory contains Newton’s theory, and after almost 400 years, Newton’s math is still all that one needs to put a satellite into orbit or a man on the moon. As another example, many think that the Earth is round, means that the Earth is a sphere. For many problems, this is a perfectly acceptable model. In reality, spheres don’t have mountains or valleys, but the Earth’s shape is still round, if not a perfect sphere. “The Earth is round” is an example of a valid scientific theory.

One of the most hurtful things that can be said to a scientist is to try to dismiss a theory in the scientific sense of the word as “only a theory” in the common sense of the word. This statement not only demonstrates that the speaker has no understanding of how science works, let alone the scientific point they are about to get wrong, but implies that all those years of observation, careful work and painstaking analysis by diligent people meant nothing. It is as obnoxious as saying to a rabbi that “the Torah is just a story”.

356 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:09pm

re: #319 Sharmuta

That's why I decided to tell some of the evolution deniers I don't believe in gravity. :p

S'OK, gravity believes in YOU.

/

357 dkorta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:16pm

re: #248 Salamantis

There are literally billions of solar systems where such is not the case. In fact, it isn't the case on other planets within our OWN solar system. It just happened to be the case with ours, and could just as easily not have been. Or have been the case on any one of those billions of other systems, in which case we could have evolved there instead, and called it home, and not noticed much different from what we notice here.

Some theorize that we are rather fortunate to have a moon. It helps maintain the stability of the Earth's rotation. Without this stability it would have been much more difficult for life as we know it to develop.

358 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:17pm

re: #279 FurryOldGuyJeans

War is Good now that the Messiah-King is enthroned.

...and on the fifth day God Created War and it was good. Funny Obama Pic

359 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:36pm

re: #341 ggt

I thought the tides had something to do with wind movement? no?

Wind is derived from planetary rotation and uneven atmospheric heating from the sun.

360 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:44pm

re: #354 Salamantis

Yeah; the full moons would be so scrambled, it would be hard to see how menstrual cycles could have evolved to match them.

It would be hard to be a werewolf too

361 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:46pm

re: #331 Charles

Another meltdown in the 'Mission Statement' thread. Apparently, pointing out that mass deportations would inevitably lead to mass violence is 'unhinged.'

Buh bye.

Heh, which of us said ... if deportations start she/he would begin hiding Muslims like they were Anne Frank. I up-dinged that one.

Bonhoeffer, Niemoeller ... hell yes!

362 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:20:57pm

Reasonable Belief that is non-scientific

Yes such a thing exists. It exists in history. It exists in courts of law. Here we are talking about the things we believe that we have more or less good reason to believe, but nothing approaching the standard of proof posited by proper application of the scientific method.

Permit me three examples: the Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Marathon and the assassination of John Kennedy.

Do we reasonably believe that the Battle of the Bulge happened? I could have chosen to speak on other terrible events of this period, the same arguments would apply, but I chose this because it is less emotionally charged. Let’s look at the evidence. There is the physical battlefield in Europe, which is still littered with the detritus of the battle. There are numerous documented first person accounts, from general officers down to private soldiers, from both sides of the battle. There are accounts from civilians who were caught in the middle. There are large amounts of film which was taken during and immediately after the battle. There are surviving logs and commanders’ orders covering everything from troop deployments to logistics. There are enormous graveyards full of the fallen from that battle. There are even some still living who took part in the battle. Millions of people are able to personally recount grandpa’s or grandma’s stories of it. Here, it is not only easy to believe that the battle happened, but one can easily believe that a diligent historian could get the story right, down to very small details. This is because the Second World War was very recent, very large, and very well documented. While there really isn’t an experiment that one can do on the past, and hence, the story of the battle really isn’t a scientific claim, one can still think scientifically about this. If there were an enormous battle in the middle of Europe during WWII, one would expect the kind of evidence that exists. In the face of the historical record, you would have to be deluded – or willfully propagandized with lies, to believe it didn’t happen. On a related theme, Japanese history books are woefully silent, to this day, on subjects like Nanking or Harmin and many in the West have never heard of the atrocities committed in those places.

363 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:09pm

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

and that was just the intro :)

364 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:13pm

re: #345 Bloodnok

Damn that Reddenbacher. Pop, damn you! Pop! I don't want to miss this!

It's fun with a high-speed camera.

365 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:14pm

There is a point of contrast here to bring with an orthodox application of the scientific method. Consider a murder mystery. One does not murder people in “experiments” in order to make predictions about future murders. One must piece together already existing evidence in a rational and consistent manner. The scientific analysis that comes to play is in terms recognizing the important pieces of the mystery and in seeing that they were put together consistently. For instance, one might have the hypothesis that a person’s fingerprints are unique to that person. One could then study fingerprints and then after repeated observation of the fact, that with the exception of identical twins, fingerprints are as unique as faces conclusively use the theory of unique fingerprints in the analysis of the crime. So to be clear, historical events are not subject to the scientific method directly. However, the correct ordering of, and scientific analysis of evidence is subject to the method. This distinction, though when stated clearly, seems obvious, is unfortunately easily abused by those with agendas in the larger religion and science discussion.

366 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:41pm

How about the battle of Marathon? The story goes that in 490 BCE, the Greeks, led by Athens, destroyed a Persian invasion force at Marathon. The story continues that a messenger, Pheidippides, ran about 25 miles, from Marathon to Athens, to announce the victory of the Greek alliance. Then, poor Pheidippides died from the exertion, but with a smile on his lips, as he related the news to the grateful Atheneans. Unfortunately, they didn’t have cameras or embedded reporters back then. There are few historical accounts of the battle. Yet, there is still a preponderance of evidence that battle happened. Herodotus, for example does write about it. Had Persia won, it is unlikely that Socrates, Plato and Aristotle would still have become famous. Had Persia never attacked (multiple times), it is unlikely that the vengeful Greeks, under Alexander would have conquered Persia. There are accounts from other peoples in the region that would not make sense if the battle never happened. It is incredibly unlikely that the Greeks could have fabricated the whole thing.

What about the actual details of the battle? Something like “Major Hercules” ordered his company to make this or that maneuver, and then this or that happened to the Persians? Perhaps there are classical military buffs who can point me to more full accounts of the battle (and I know that “major” and “company” don’t really apply to the ancient Greek military) but I doubt that a verifiable, detailed account of the battle exists. Even if it did, it does not change the main point. It is perfectly reasonable to believe in something based only on the plausibility of a preponderance of evidence, even if one does not know all the details.

The last sentence cuts two ways and should be specially noted. If one were to claim that it is reasonable to believe in something that they like to believe (particularly, those things which are directed at spiritual matters) based on plausibility or a preponderance of evidence, they do not get to turn around and suddenly say that an open question in a scientific theory is suddenly reason to dismiss the theory.

What about Pheidippides? Isn’t that a great story? I have no idea if it actually happened, but part of me hopes it did.

Lastly, let’s look at JFK. For sure, he was shot dead in Dallas. From the best I can research, it looks like Oswald was definitely involved. Did Oswald act alone? If so, it seems odd that Jack Ruby, a local mafioso, would have hastened to murder Oswald, before Oswald could be transferred to federal custody. What are the full details? Barring deathbed confessions which unlock more evidence, I doubt that we will ever know. What is plausible to believe? There is a sort of tragedy of the commons. Compelling cases are made by all manner of historians and conspiracy theorists. It is even possible that Oswald really did act alone. Here we just don’t know. The most honest thing to say is “I just don’t know.”

367 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:56pm

re: #354 Salamantis

Yeah; the full moons would be so scrambled, it would be hard to see how menstrual cycles could have evolved to match them.

joking aside, I have often wondered why human estrus cycles were similar to lunar cycles. Are there any good theories on how this evolved.

368 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:21:58pm

The point of this section was to elucidate a grey zone of belief between science and faith. My father once joked to me that whether Robert E. Lee was presented to you as a hero or a criminal depends a lot on which side of the Mason Dixon line you were born on. What he actually was requires gathering sufficient pieces of the historical puzzle to make a best guess. If sufficient pieces are not available, as is so often the case in history, it becomes harder and harder to fill in the blanks. In the absence of evidence, you are stuck with your belief of what history was. As such, you are stuck with a continuum of possible outlooks. Pure faith is on one end and the scientific method is on the other. Preponderance of the evidence is somewhere in between, depending on how much evidence and what kind of evidence we have. Human affairs, in the real world, usually force us to be somewhere between. From the mother who will never believe that her convicted son was guilty, to the jury that convicted, the spectrum exists. The astute reader will note that this argument does not just apply to history. There are many things in life that we can not verify up to scientific standards of evidence but we are compelled to believe based as “best we can tell.” It is truly in these cases that the maxim “no data means no data” applies. In other words, science has helped as much as it can. We have no data. We still don’t know.

369 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:02pm

re: #270 Thanos

You might bounce it off Salamantis as well, the trick is to be concise on the other hand, so that might not be a great idea :)

The dialectic between precision and concision is a trecherous tightrope to tread, especially when one is striving to be thorough and comprehensive as well.

370 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:07pm

re: #331 Charles

Another meltdown in the 'Mission Statement' thread. Apparently, pointing out that mass deportations would inevitably lead to mass violence is 'unhinged.'

Buh bye.

How many meltdowns today?

371 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:21pm

re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote

are you a "speed" typer? That is more text than I can generate in an hour

372 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:34pm

ok, there is much more about to post, but tell me if you like it so far. It is actually the detailed outline of a book I am working on.

373 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:48pm

re: #349 Lynn B.

/sorry, I know there's a way to link Amazon through LGF but I haven't been able to figure out how to do it.

It does it automatically. Check the linked URL.

374 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:22:56pm

re: #354 Salamantis

Yeah; the full moons would be so scrambled, it would be hard to see how menstrual cycles could have evolved to match them.

Now thats funny..

375 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:23:07pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

ok, there is much more about to post, but tell me if you like it so far. It is actually the detailed outline of a book I am working on.

a book!....for free?

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:23:34pm

re: #358 Afrocity

...and on the fifth day God Created War and it was good. Funny Obama Pic

Heh. His ears ain't big enough, though. ;)

377 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:23:34pm

re: #336 FurryOldGuyJeans

He even threatened to invade Pakistan, so his being a pacifist is a whole lot of hooey.

If you mean he said he would go after the terrorists wherever they were found, yes. I think if we found out where Osama was hiding, send in a team to take him out and deal with Pakistan later. I don't trust them enough to ask permission or even give them a heads up. BTW, I'm convinced GW would have done the same if we'd had good intelligence.

378 Tarheel  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:23:59pm

My problem with Dawkins is very much the same as my problem with the Creationists just in opposite directions. Dawkins is militant and proselytizing in his atheism and the Creationists are militant and proselytizing creationists, both of which want to impose their belief systems on all of us.

I have no time for either one!

Tarheel

379 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:24:14pm

re: #349 Lynn B.

Chomsky applies the same tactics to the field of linguistics that he does to politics. It's well documented, though not widely know or accepted.

/sorry, I know there's a way to link Amazon through LGF but I haven't been able to figure out how to do it.

the Book Category of the Spin-off links. Just like any other spin-off link, just choose "Book" in the category pull-down menu.

380 snowcrash  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:24:24pm

re: #327 avanti
Obama passionately campaigned on the promise of immediate withdrawal of all troops early in his campaign. He later turned it into delaying the departure of American troops. I don't recall events quite the same as you do. I do remember him invading Pakistan tho.

381 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:24:41pm

re: #368 LudwigVanQuixote

elucidate

I think the hammer just missed the nail and hit my thumb.

382 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:24:48pm

re: #37 rightwinger3

Good points. Same with Electricity and Electronics theory which I just happened to have tested today. Voltage is cool in an open circuit. Close that circuit and see what happens. Kind of sucks for a theory to prove itself once again. Shocking actually.

Speaking of electricity, here's a cool new invention. I had the idea years ago, but I'm no electrical engineer. Just an idea man.

[Link: www.causecast.org...]

383 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:24:56pm

re: #367 big steve

joking aside, I have often wondered why human estrus cycles were similar to lunar cycles. Are there any good theories on how this evolved.

Honest and continuous prayers to the moon goddess for some small clue? Just any clue, please!

/

384 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:25:10pm

re: #367 big steve

joking aside, I have often wondered why human estrus cycles were similar to lunar cycles. Are there any good theories on how this evolved.

Tidal forces and exposure to full moonlight is one I remember reading a number of years ago.

385 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:25:41pm

re: #316 So?

Since there have been a million threads on evolution I thought it was time to have some fun. This site lets you see what you would have looked like 5 million years ago. It's very cool. Try it.

One thing. Could someone tell me how one can save the final image. I was such a cute chimp, but didn't know how to save it.

Go ahead, devolve yourself.

[Link: www.open.ac.uk...]

I did one of Pat Buchanan. I saved the end result here.

386 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:25:55pm

re: #158 Eric Cartman's Conscience

#126 Charles

I'm not a creationist. I lean more agnostic, bordering on atheism. I just refuse to have dismissive contempt for people with a different view of things. We're all trying to figure out what the f*ck it is we're doing here. It doesn't interest me to blast these people. I think they're a wee bit nutty. But Dawkins genuinely despises them. He always has. However he couches his terms and phrases his goal is to discredit their entire foundation. Why?

Dawkins is OK with people being dim of wit. Its a fate the spectacularly bright must see as visited on almost everyone. He has no patience with bright folk who employ their wits to deceive and mislead the bright-but-not-as-bright-as-Dawkins.

387 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:26:04pm

re: #377 avanti

Your Obamania is just so thick.

388 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:26:10pm

re: #359 FurryOldGuyJeans

Wind is derived from planetary rotation and uneven atmospheric heating from the sun.


yes, I think it is coming back to me. . .

deeply buried little gray cells.

389 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:26:44pm

re: #337 rawmuse

Hey, that was fun!

Any idea how to save the image?

390 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:27:16pm

re: #367 big steve

joking aside, I have often wondered why human estrus cycles were similar to lunar cycles. Are there any good theories on how this evolved.

The men went on hunting expeditions when it was around the time of a full moon.

391 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:27:22pm

re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote

Point of contention- identical twins do not have identical fingerprints.

392 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:27:41pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

ok, there is much more about to post, but tell me if you like it so far. It is actually the detailed outline of a book I am working on.

Ludwig, very well written. But a wee bit long for the non-major. Remember, creationists are non-majors.

393 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:28:24pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

How many meltdowns today?

Charles should put a meltdown counter on the sidebar.

394 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:28:25pm
395 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:28:30pm

re: #392 ggt

Ludwig, very well written. But a wee bit long for the non-major. Remember, creationists are non-majors.

Major breakers of wind they are. ;)

396 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:28:53pm

re: #333 TooDamNice

There are no gaps in gravity. When you drop an egg is falls and breaks. It doesn't disappear for awhile then reappear closer to the ground thereby making you wonder what path it took.

Richard Lenski can rerun a case of e. coli evolution for you at will, too...with no gaps whatsoever.

397 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:28:55pm

re: #378 Tarheel

My problem with Dawkins is very much the same as my problem with the Creationists just in opposite directions. Dawkins is militant and proselytizing in his atheism and the Creationists are militant and proselytizing creationists, both of which want to impose their belief systems on all of us.

I have no time for either one!

Tarheel

I do understand where you are coming from. But I think that people like you who stand in the middle and refuse to judge are guilty of the same as the leftist relativist who refuse to judge between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists.

Sometimes, you can judge on some things in a set of philosophical principles, based on the results. You should judge all things equally, but that does not mean that you should deny all results, or get only equal results.

I'm not saying that I think everyone should be an Atheist, as I am, but when people refuse to judge because of their view of the "extreme" positions, I always have to ask them why...and which argument they should at least desire to be more true.

While scientific inquiry has nothing to do with desire, one can desire the pursuit of it at least, for very easily explained reasons. Therefore, based on those desires, and perhaps even needs, one should be able to form an opinion weighted one way or the other. =)

398 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:29:11pm

re: #333 TooDamNice

There are no gaps in gravity.

There aren't? Those fooking astronauts lied to me, the bastiches!

399 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:29:16pm

re: #384 FurryOldGuyJeans

Tidal forces and exposure to full moonlight is one I remember reading a number of years ago.

then why aren't other primates on the same cycles.......which they aren't. Only humans have the 28 day cycle.

400 Jim D  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:29:21pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

keep it coming! this is great stuff

401 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:30:14pm

re: #394 Iron Fist

Of course he didn't really want the United Statyes to lose the war. He just didn't want us to win it until he was President. I hope that it is as easy as he apparently believes it to be.

He certainly has no shame in taking credit now that he is POTUS for the success of the Iraqi surge he soundly and repeatedly opposed by being the perpetual candidate.

402 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #394 Iron Fist

I hope he doesn't try to run it like Johnson tried to micromanage Vietnam.

403 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:30:25pm

re: #398 Slumbering Behemoth

There aren't? Those fooking astronauts lied to me, the bastiches!

In what way? Those orbits can be described with celestial mechanics, which very much involves gravity.

404 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:30:37pm

re: #398 Slumbering Behemoth

There aren't? Those fooking astronauts lied to me, the bastiches!

Nobody really knows what gravity is.

405 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #402 jaunte

I hope he doesn't try to run it like Johnson tried to micromanage Vietnam.

NOW we know why Andrew Sullivan has it in for Charles!

/////////////////

406 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:10pm

re: #404 So?

Nobody really knows what gravity is.

I do, but I'm not telling.

407 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:15pm

Beheading in New York Appears to Be Honor Killing, Experts Say

Wow, must have went to school where the have queer travel studies, Counselor.

408 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:23pm

re: #380 snowcrash

Obama passionately campaigned on the promise of immediate withdrawal of all troops early in his campaign. He later turned it into delaying the departure of American troops. I don't recall events quite the same as you do. I do remember him invading Pakistan tho.

I thought we were talking about Afghanistan, not Iraq He always promised more attention to Afghanistan. Here's the "invasion" quote:

"There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans," he said. "They are plotting to strike again. . . . If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

409 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:30pm

re: #392 ggt

Ludwig, very well written. But a wee bit long for the non-major. Remember, creationists are non-majors.

Oh man and that is just the introduction....

Also Sharmuta, I always assumed identical twins would have the same fingerprints. They certainly have the same DNA. How do you know this?

410 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:36pm

re: #402 jaunte

I hope he doesn't try to run it like Johnson tried to micromanage Vietnam.

AAAAAIIII!

411 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:54pm

re: #404 So?

Nobody really knows what why gravity is.

WHAT it is is easily discernible. It's a force.

412 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:56pm

re: #381 Mich-again

I think the hammer just missed the nail and hit my thumb.

Nekams Troll Hammer was spontaneous I believe...boom there it was

413 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:31:57pm
414 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:32:29pm

There are variations in identical twins- they're not purely genetically identical. My mother and aunt were identical twins, but my mother was right handed, my aunt is left.

415 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:32:34pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ,
very good writing......but no troll hammer "sorry" :(
just too long,dry and lacking emotion or outrage.
my .02
p.s.
keep posting
I like's yo stuff

416 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:32:36pm

re: #383 OldLineTexan

Honest and continuous prayers to the moon goddess for some small clue? Just any clue, please!

/

oh man, I knew something about that once. May have to hire one of those grown-up tonka trucks to dig it up tho. Those particular little gray cells are deeply buried.

Let's see, what do the moon/tides involve --magnetic force?, high/low pressure? there is something there that correlates to the human body, but I can't remember. They say that tribal women cycles run at the same time --pheromones? Aw, it's a jumble of a mess in my brain right now.

(no jokes about it being just right now)

417 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:32:48pm

re: #412 albusteve

Sometimes that's when the best stuff comes out.

418 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:00pm

re: #408 avanti

I thought we were talking about Afghanistan, not Iraq He always promised more attention to Afghanistan. Here's the "invasion" quote:

"There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans," he said. "They are plotting to strike again. . . . If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

President Musharraf of Pakistan was/is responsible for Afghanistan how?

419 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:04pm

re: #406 Summer

I do, but I'm not telling.

You can tell me. There is no gravity, because the earth sucks, right? ;)

420 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:32pm

Charles, devolve yourself.

Since you are the computer wizard, is there any way to save the devolved image?
I'd like to send mine to a few friends. Can it be done?

[Link: www.open.ac.uk...]

421 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:44pm

re: #404 So?

Nobody really knows what gravity is.

what are you talking about? Gravity is very well explained.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:49pm

re: #390 Mich-again

The men went on hunting expeditions when it was around the time of a full moon.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

423 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:33:55pm

re: #414 Sharmuta

There are variations in identical twins- they're not purely genetically identical. My mother and aunt were identical twins, but my mother was right handed, my aunt is left.

Is handedness genetic?

424 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:03pm

re: #409 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh man and that is just the introduction....

Also Sharmuta, I always assumed identical twins would have the same fingerprints. They certainly have the same DNA. How do you know this?

I'm an identical twin. I don't have the same fingerprints as my twin.

425 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:14pm

re: #418 OldLineTexan

President Musharraf of Pakistan was/is responsible for Afghanistan how?

Simply because O campaigned that he might invade Pakistan.

426 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:25pm

re: #406 Summer

I do, but I'm not telling.

You probably have a picture of the big bang too! :)

427 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:47pm

re: #385 Slumbering Behemoth

I did one of Pat Buchanan. I saved the end result here.

Okay that was fun but creepy. I looked like a monkey.
That image is burned in my brain.

428 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:48pm

re: #350 Mich-again

As I understand it, the prevailing theory is that evolution involves the natural selection of random mutations. And random means "by chance". So I think Dawkins is wrong here to dismiss "by chance" like he did.

He obviously meant that evolution couldn't work if it worked only by chance. Which it does not. There is a random component - genetic mutation - and a NONrandom component - environmental selection. It takes BOTH of them to comprise evolution.

429 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:34:55pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

It does it automatically. Check the linked URL.

Fan-Tastic! Thanks!

/I shoulda known ...

430 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:35:14pm

re: #399 big steve

then why aren't other primates on the same cycles.......which they aren't. Only humans have the 28 day cycle.

I thought cats too? no?

My roommate had a cat that was a major b!tch once a month.

431 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:35:22pm

re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a point of contrast here to bring with an orthodox application of the scientific method. Consider a murder mystery. One does not murder people in “experiments” in order to make predictions about future murders. One must piece together already existing evidence in a rational and consistent manner. The scientific analysis that comes to play is in terms recognizing the important pieces of the mystery and in seeing that they were put together consistently. For instance, one might have the hypothesis that a person’s fingerprints are unique to that person. One could then study fingerprints and then after repeated observation of the fact, that with the exception of identical twins, fingerprints are as unique as faces conclusively use the theory of unique fingerprints in the analysis of the crime. So to be clear, historical events are not subject to the scientific method directly. However, the correct ordering of, and scientific analysis of evidence is subject to the method. This distinction, though when stated clearly, seems obvious, is unfortunately easily abused by those with agendas in the larger religion and science discussion.

The fingerprints of identical twins are distinct and different.

432 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:35:25pm

re: #414 Sharmuta

There are variations in identical twins- they're not purely genetically identical. My mother and aunt were identical twins, but my mother was right handed, my aunt is left.

Is being right handed or left handed genetic? I thought it was learned... could be wrong though.

433 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:35:40pm

re: #419 Sharmuta

You can tell me. There is no gravity, because the earth sucks, right? ;)

Close.

Texas doesn't slide into the Gulf because Oklahoma sucks.

//

434 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:35:46pm

re: #404 So?

Nobody really knows what gravity is.

black holes!

/

435 yesandno  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:02pm

re: #424 MJ

I'm an identical twin. I don't have the same fingerprints as my twin.

But could you?

436 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #420 So?

Charles, devolve yourself.

Since you are the computer wizard, is there any way to save the devolved image?
I'd like to send mine to a few friends. Can it be done?

[Link: www.open.ac.uk...]

Printscreen and then open in a graphics editing program like Photoshop.

437 KansasMom  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:22pm

re: #420 So?

Old trick-- alt-PrntScrn, then paste into Paint. Reduce the size of your pic in Paint and save as a jpeg. Quick and simple.
Old school, I know. But it works.

438 big steve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:29pm

re: #390 Mich-again

The men went on hunting expeditions when it was around the time of a full moon.

I have heard that theory but it seems far-fetched. For one, why estrus cycles are 28 days they wander all over the place so if it was a mechanism to time conception to when males were around, it would have evolved to precisely follow the moon.

439 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:30pm

re: #423 Mich-again

Is handedness genetic?

Handedness

440 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:42pm

re: #430 ggt

I thought cats too? no?

My roommate had a cat that was a major b!tch once a month.

The cat might have just been picking up on the pheromones being aerosolized.

441 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:36:59pm

re: #425 FurryOldGuyJeans

Simply because O campaigned that he might invade Pakistan.

Well, I guess it makes as much sense as anything I've heard (from Obama) in a while.

442 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:37:18pm

re: #378 Tarheel

I agree that Dawkins can be needlessly shrill, but he arrives at his convictions through a thought process that is the opposite of a biblical/koranic creationist. He has convictions, creationist have beliefs. He's observed real evidence and is passionate about defending that evidence and what it tells us about how the world works. Young Earth Creationists and IDers believe in a scientifically impossible scenario for existence and then use political force to try to bend the scientific process to their belief system. Dawkins has said numerous times that if irrefutable evidence was supplied his mind could be changed. It's obvious that no amount of evidence will ever convince creationists.

443 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:37:22pm

re: #387 FurryOldGuyJeans

Your Obamania is just so thick.

Just a different way of reading the same quote. I read he claims he'll go after the terrorists where ever he finds them, you read he'll invade on a whim.
Personally, I'm a bit of a hawk on issue of the 9-11 terrorists and good don't `give a shit about the Pakistani's hurt feelings if they won't act.

444 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:37:34pm

re: #428 Salamantis

He obviously meant that evolution couldn't work if it worked only by chance. Which it does not. There is a random component - genetic mutation - and a NONrandom component - environmental selection. It takes BOTH of them to comprise evolution.

He should be clearer in his writing then. If a process relies on the succession of a random event followed by a non-random event, it is still a random process.

445 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:22pm

re: #433 OldLineTexan

Close.

Texas doesn't slide into the Gulf because Oklahoma sucks.

//

College Station sucks (creating pull toward the south) but Oklahoma sucks more.

/*running like hell*

446 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:36pm

re: #421 big steve

what are you talking about? Gravity is very well explained.

Not really. I've listened to quite a few top scientists in the field and many expressed the same view, that is, they admitted that they truly do not understand gravity in its most basic sense.

447 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:39pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Handedness

GGGGGRRRRRRRRR! Even the terms dexterous and sinister are barbaric throwbacks to discrimination of handedness in people.

448 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:51pm

re: #415 rain of lead

LVQ,
very good writing......but no troll hammer "sorry" :(
just too long,dry and lacking emotion or outrage.
my .02
p.s.
keep posting
I like's yo stuff

Thanks
OK I'll go back to the drawing board and bullet point it a bit. I do get into prof mode.

449 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:51pm

I met Hannity at the CORE (Congress of Racial Equality) dinner here in NYC. My impression was that he's a decent guy whose jokes fell flat during his speech. Giving that paleo-con Buchanan air time on his show, however, is a terrible mistake!

My opinion: it's all about ratings for these people.

450 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:38:56pm

re: #341 ggt

I thought the tides had something to do with wind movement? no?

The tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon.

451 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:10pm

re: #443 avanti

Just a different way of reading the same quote. I read he claims he'll go after the terrorists where ever he finds them, you read he'll invade on a whim.
Personally, I'm a bit of a hawk on issue of the 9-11 terrorists and good don't `give a shit about the Pakistani's hurt feelings if they won't act.

he sure went after those guys at Gitmo in a hurry...

452 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:12pm

re: #443 avanti

Just a different way of reading the same quote. I read he claims he'll go after the terrorists where ever he finds them, you read he'll invade on a whim.
Personally, I'm a bit of a hawk on issue of the 9-11 terrorists and good don't `give a shit about the Pakistani's hurt feelings if they won't act.

How's about they give one of their nukes to their new political partners, the Taliban. Would you give a shit then?

453 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:15pm

re: #445 pre-Boomer Marine brat

College Station sucks (creating pull toward the south) but Oklahoma sucks more.

/*running like hell*

I'm no Aggie.

;)

454 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:40pm

re: #447 FurryOldGuyJeans

GGGGGRRRRRRRRR! Even the terms dexterous and sinister are barbaric throwbacks to discrimination of handedness in people.

I take it you are sinister then?

455 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:44pm

re: #431 lostlakehiker

The fingerprints of identical twins are distinct and different.

OK

You are the second to tell me this. I did not know that. How do you know that? NOt challenging you just really curious.

456 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:39:54pm

re: #436 Alouette

Printscreen and then open in a graphics editing program like Photoshop.

Thanks. But that is too complicated for me. The site should have included a "save" feature. Too bad.

457 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:40:05pm

re: #438 big steve

I have heard that theory but it seems far-fetched. For one, why estrus cycles are 28 days they wander all over the place so if it was a mechanism to time conception to when males were around, it would have evolved to precisely follow the moon.

Yes, it has to do with men! Nature conforms itself to the meanderings of men.

/gah --yes far fetched!

458 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:40:22pm

re: #440 FurryOldGuyJeans

The cat might have just been picking up on the pheromones being aerosolized.

LOL

459 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:40:24pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Handedness

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

460 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:40:45pm

re: #452 Desert Dog

How's about they give one of their nukes to their new political partners, the Taliban. Would you give a shit then?

be an hour til a reply

461 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:07pm

re: #403 OldLineTexan

Just being a sarcastic cuss.

462 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:07pm

re: #455 LudwigVanQuixote

OK

You are the second to tell me this. I did not know that. How do you know that? NOt challenging you just really curious.

See
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

463 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:08pm

re: #443 avanti

Invading a country without a lot of provocation, especially when one has condemned his predecessor for doing exactly the same thing he proposes, is not hurt feelings.

464 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:22pm

re: #459 Mich-again

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

Has she ever claimed that you are unfaithful because none of the kids look like you?

/

465 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:26pm

re: #459 Mich-again

Well- they did find a gene recently (2007) linked with handedness, but that article says there's still lots of theories about it.

466 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:30pm

re: #459 Mich-again

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

That's what happens with threesomes.

/couldn't resist

467 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:49pm

It's difficult or impossible for the U.S. to wage war in Afghanistan without Pakistani support. That's how the supply lines go, and that's the reality.

Having pissed the Pakistanis off, how does he think he'll manage it? With logistical support from the Russians?

468 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:51pm

re: #459 Mich-again

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

don't know but you guys should definately get a spot on FOX News....

469 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:52pm

re: #453 OldLineTexan

I'm no Aggie.

;)

heh
it was a generic *duck*
I'm no Longhorn, but I was just trying to "instigate"

470 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:41:55pm

re: #454 Desert Dog

I take it you are sinister then?

In more than one way, especially if you listen to my ex, but yeah.

471 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:01pm

re: #461 Slumbering Behemoth

OK, next virtual beer's on me.

/we have to hang together

472 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:07pm
473 Cognito  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:14pm

re: #229 Mich-again

Yep. And Kierkegaard said something quite similar.

474 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:24pm

re: #450 Salamantis

The tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon.

yes, but I thought that had some affect on the winds as well. My mistake.

My little gray cells filing system is in jumbles.

475 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:25pm

re: #459 Mich-again

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

My wife is a lefty and my oldest son is as well. I am "left eyed"...that is, the left is the dominate and I can actually shoot better from the left. I could also kick a soccer ball equally with my left or right....maybe I should have been a lefty? It would explain my lousy handwriting....

476 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:40pm

re: #459 Mich-again

My wife and I are right-handed. All three kids are left-handed. Whats the chance of that?

Is the milkman left handed? ;-)

477 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:42pm

re: #466 So?

That's what happens with threesomes.

Hello! This is a family site! Jeeze Louise.

478 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:42:44pm

re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote

that with the exception of identical twins, fingerprints are as unique as faces conclusively use the theory of unique fingerprints in the analysis of the crime.

According to The Straight Dope identical twins do have unique fingerprints. Just a minor nit picking point

479 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:14pm

re: #472 iWatas

The siren song! ;-)

480 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:26pm

re: #472 iWatas

Please get your own blog so we can come over and tell you what your focus should be.

481 irongrampa  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:34pm

I've really been enjoying the evolution threads, in addition to all the others. Be damned if I'll comment, though. Just reading them has both informed and enlightened me greatly.

I still maintain that this website should come with an addiction disclaimer, however.

482 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:41pm

re: #467 quickjustice

It's difficult or impossible for the U.S. to wage war in Afghanistan without Pakistani support. That's how the supply lines go, and that's the reality.

Having pissed the Pakistanis off, how does he think he'll manage it? With logistical support from the Russians?

he's checking his Risk board for some hints

483 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:44pm

Teeball night.

484 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:43:45pm

re: #419 Sharmuta

You can tell me. There is no gravity, because the earth sucks, right? ;)

Wrong. It's because Allah is keeping us down.
/

485 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:05pm

re: #472 iWatas

Uh Oh.

486 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:11pm
487 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:24pm

re: #449 quickjustice

Okay, this is bad but I think he is sexy. I like nice guys. I find that attractive. He seems like a kind hearted man. I admire his charity work.

488 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:44pm

I'm sorry I wasn't here to monitor the halls. Anything happening?

489 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:47pm

re: #486 ggt

Don't quote whiners.

490 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #472 iWatas

Not a good choice of subject matter there.

491 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:45:09pm

re: #472 iWatas

Then please don't let us stop you from starting your own blog to focus on what you consider important.

Why do you insist on coming into someone's home, complain about the furniture, vomit on the carpet, and hurl abuse at all the invited guests?

492 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:45:21pm

I'm left handed. I think right.

493 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:45:33pm

Again: it simply doesn't matter how many posts on other subjects appear on the front page.

Inevitably, as soon as an evolution thread is posted, they come out of the woodwork and complain that there's nothing else but evolution threads.

Guilt trip. Not gonna work.

494 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:45:55pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Handedness

My daughter is mixed-handed (or cross-dominant).

495 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:06pm

I think it would be fun having a link to a site where every lizard's picture is featured as they would look 5 million years ago. (hint, hint)

496 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:11pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

Don't quote whiners.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry . . .

497 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:23pm

re: #369 Salamantis

The dialectic between precision and concision is a trecherous tightrope to tread, especially when one is striving to be thorough and comprehensive as well.

Indeed.

498 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:35pm

re: #488 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry I wasn't here to monitor the halls. Anything happening?

I asked about you on another thread. Wanted to make sure you survived Hopapalooza in Colorado.

499 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:40pm

re: #494 reine.de.tout

I can ten-key with both hands. It's weirded out a few people.

500 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:46:49pm

re: #484 Slumbering Behemoth

Wrong. It's because Allah is keeping us down.
/

I thought it was Al-Gore

501 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:02pm

re: #494 reine.de.tout

Same for my son.

502 Rich H  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:08pm

I think it's important to write books and articles on Evolution like these, but I think it's also important to explain why Evolution is Science whereas Creationism is not.

Creationism - a.k.a. Intelligent Design - and Evolution are not competing scientific theories. The latter is a theory whereas the former is a dogma.

Scientific theories support evidence indiscriminately. When a new theory better supports the body of evidence, the older theory is discarded. The empirical evidence is the deciding factor.

Dogmas, on the other hand, selectively cherry pick facts which support them, while denying, ignoring or attacking evidence which contradicts them. For dogmas, the underlying belief system is the deciding factor no matter what the evidence.

503 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:13pm

If tides are caused by the pull of the moon ... what if we lined up millions and millions of people along the West Coast, had them face inland and drop their drawers? Could we suck Hong Kong harbor dry?

504 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:22pm

re: #493 Charles

The funny thing is if all the people who left here hating were ever in the same room together, they would hate each other too.

505 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:25pm

re: #472 iWatas

Looks like you used "Form Letter #2" (aka "This Used To Be My Playground"). A classic.

506 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:27pm

re: #463 FurryOldGuyJeans

Invading a country without a lot of provocation, especially when one has condemned his predecessor for doing exactly the same thing he proposes, is not hurt feelings.

F##K provocation. If our intelligence shows us where Osama is hiding in Pakistan, take his ass out. 9-11 was the whole reason we fought two wars, and if he's still vertical, make him go away.

507 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:42pm

re: #486 ggt

You've been a member since 2007. WTF?

With 22 posts since then...and they burn a post berating Charles for his choice of subject matter on HIS blog.

508 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:43pm

re: #494 reine.de.tout

My daughter is mixed-handed (or cross-dominant).

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

509 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:49pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

Don't quote whiners.

Well, one can if they don't mind getting zapped as well.

510 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:55pm

re: #487 Afrocity

I think him kind, and a good, Irish Catholic family man. His line of work forces him to pal up on occasion with the likes of Buchanan, however. Too bad. He's fine debating Rangel or Sharpton, for example. Dick Morris misses as often as he hits. Now that Hillary-hating has dried up as his cottage industry, Morris is scrambling to find another gig.

511 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:47:59pm

re: #367 big steve

joking aside, I have often wondered why human estrus cycles were similar to lunar cycles. Are there any good theories on how this evolved.

Women who live together have their menstrual cycles synchronize, so they can compete for available males, and women who live out of doors evolved to become fertile during the full moon, when they can more easily be sought out at night to breed.

Virile men have a cycle, too. If they don't have sex for a month, they tend to have a wet dream (nocturnal emission). This cuts down on birth defects by expelling old sperms (the genetic material of which degrades much more rapidly than does the genetic material in womens' eggs), making way for fresh, nondegraded sperm.

512 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:06pm

re: #472 iWatas

Nope, just radical pressure groups trying to replace modern knowledge with knowledge from the middle stone age, trying to undermine the constitution and just generally working to make our kids dumb. But I guess if that doesn't bother you...

513 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:20pm

re: #503 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If tides are caused by the pull of the moon ... what if we lined up millions and millions of people along the West Coast, had them face inland and drop their drawers? Could we suck Hong Kong harbor dry?

Hey, this is a family site.

514 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:42pm

re: #499 Sharmuta

I can ten-key with both hands. It's weirded out a few people.

I'll bet!
It's weirding me out thinking about it.

I tried to teach my daughter once to play jacks.

She writes and reaches for things with her left hand, but tosses and catches with her right hand.

You cannot play jacks two-handed, it's impossible to get the rhythm going.
It was really strange.

515 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:49pm

re: #503 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If tides are caused by the pull of the moon ... what if we lined up millions and millions of people along the West Coast, had them face inland and drop their drawers? Could we suck Hong Kong harbor dry?

Or, we could just ask Michael Moore and Al Gore to do that for the same effect. I just don't want to be around when those full moons rise.

516 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:52pm

re: #494 reine.de.tout

My daughter is mixed-handed (or cross-dominant).

I'm heavy handed, unless it's early and then I'm just hamfisted.

517 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:58pm

re: #506 avanti

You are so full of shit. O condemned Bush constantly for doing what he wants to do now. Opportunism writ large, buttwipe.

518 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:48:58pm

re: #498 Afrocity

I asked about you on another thread. Wanted to make sure you survived Hopapalooza in Colorado.

I was down at the theatre putting up the new set for our next show. I missed it. Was it fun?

519 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:06pm

I can play tennis / ping pong with either hand. Just recently found out I could throw a football righty as well. Go figure.

520 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:14pm

re: #509 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, one can if they don't mind getting zapped as well.

should I self-report? I hit the wrong thingy when I wanted to reply.

521 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:17pm

re: #472 iWatas

Charles never went anywhere. And please remember this: The truth may well win out in time, but we are time poor. Every day that creationism stays prominent is another day the left possesses a club with which to strike all conservatives. The creationist issue is a side battle, politically, I grant you that. But it is a side battle that could ruin the GOP if it is lost by the supports of science. That is why I think these posts by Charles are so important.

522 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:21pm

re: #506 avanti

Our "intelligence" was the reason no one saw 9/11 coming.

523 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:43pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

ok, there is much more about to post, but tell me if you like it so far. It is actually the detailed outline of a book I am working on.

Looks good to me.

524 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:43pm

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

if you haven't already done so look at NTH again.
this was a spur of the moment post-you can feel the emotion flying off the page...lightning in a bottle so to speak.
condense
then condense again
then (oh shit not again) condense again
remember... trolls have short attention spans

525 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:45pm

re: #512 cronus

Nope, just radical pressure groups trying to replace modern knowledge with knowledge from the middle stone age, trying to undermine the constitution and just generally working to make our kids dumb. But I guess if that doesn't bother you...

Newbie- please don't quote people whining. Use the reply function instead. :)

526 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:49:46pm

re: #501 jaunte

Same for my son.

Is your son very good at math and science, but has trouble spelling and "sounding out" words?

527 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:00pm

re: #506 avanti

F##K provocation. If our intelligence shows us where Osama is hiding in Pakistan, take his ass out. 9-11 was the whole reason we fought two wars, and if he's still vertical, make him go away.

Dude has been dead a long time.

528 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:11pm

re: #512 cronus

Quoting a deleted post never ends well.

529 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:18pm

People, people, people!

Don't quote whiners.

530 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:35pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

duly noted

531 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:43pm

re: #515 Desert Dog

Or, we could just ask Michael Moore and Al Gore to do that for the same effect. I just don't want to be around when those full moons rise.

Al, Mike al-Moore, and Bad Moon Rising

532 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:44pm

re: #529 Sharmuta

People, people, people!

Don't quote whiners.

What are you whining about? :)

533 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:45pm

re: #508 Walter L. Newton

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

Well, then - it wouldn't do you much good, would it, to be ambidextrous?

534 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:55pm

re: #508 Walter L. Newton

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

Break a leg.

535 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:50:56pm

re: #471 OldLineTexan

That would be cool. Sadly, I am broke, so I doubt I'll be out to Texas anytime soon. If you find yourself in the central valley of California, however, give me a holler.

536 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:51:02pm

re: #508 Walter L. Newton

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

My brother is ambidextrous. He was a Black Panther and very active in the Black Pride Movement. His friends liked it because he could shoot a gun and smoke a joint at the same time.

537 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:51:13pm

re: #506 avanti

F##K provocation. If our intelligence shows us where Osama is hiding in Pakistan, take his ass out. 9-11 was the whole reason we fought two wars, and if he's still vertical, make him go away.

but how does that reconcile all the criticism he showered on Bush?....my answer is he is an unprincipled, opportunistic, hypocrit and so are his drooler minions

538 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:51:20pm
539 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:51:35pm

As for me, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy!

540 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:51:41pm

re: #378 Tarheel

My problem with Dawkins is very much the same as my problem with the Creationists just in opposite directions. Dawkins is militant and proselytizing in his atheism and the Creationists are militant and proselytizing creationists, both of which want to impose their belief systems on all of us.

I have no time for either one!

Tarheel

Empirical science isn't a belief system; it's what can be known in the basis of scientific evidence. Your attempt at equivocation is noted and rejected, with good and sufficient cause.

541 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:00pm

re: #526 reine.de.tout

He has terrible dyslexia, trouble enunciating, but is good at math.

542 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:01pm

re: #515 Desert Dog

Or, we could just ask Michael Moore and Al Gore to do that for the same effect. I just don't want to be around when those full moons rise.

I did post a cheeky suggestion, I admit.

543 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:30pm

I'm editing the posts with whiner quotes, to remove the whining quotes, but you need to reload the page to see the changes.

Until I figure out a way to update edits as well as deletes.

544 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:33pm

Every time I leave, something exciting happens.

545 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:36pm
546 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:36pm

re: #539 quickjustice

As for me, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy!

I'll drink to that....I think

547 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:37pm

re: #514 reine.de.tout

One of my bosses demanded to know why my calculator was on my left.

Because I can.

548 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:52:53pm

re: #538 dammad

You certainly have enough arrogance to show your bias in what you think is correct.

549 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:06pm

Man. Out of the woodwork.

550 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:11pm

UN: 5 tons of bombs stolen under Hamas guard

JERUSALEM – Five tons of unexploded Israeli bombs stored in the Gaza Strip under Hamas police guard have been stolen, U.N. officials said Tuesday....

..."It's clearly extremely dangerous and needs to be disposed of in a safe manner," Miron said. The material was under guard by Hamas police between Feb. 4 and 14 when it was stolen, he said.

Israeli military spokesman Peter Lerner told The Associated Press that the explosives were probably taken by Hamas....

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Ya think?
Look for work accidents in the following weeks.

551 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:16pm

re: #538 dammad

Tough shit. (I got here just in time).

552 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:26pm

re: #535 Slumbering Behemoth

That would be cool. Sadly, I am broke, so I doubt I'll be out to Texas anytime soon. If you find yourself in the central valley of California, however, give me a holler.

I sometimes make it to Palmdale.

553 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:41pm

re: #538 dammad

Did you not see Charles' reponse to iWatas?

You must be working on your martyr points too...

/

554 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:53:49pm

I predict #538 will cease to exist in 5...4...3...2...


Man, that was fast.

555 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:03pm

re: #542 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I did post a cheeky suggestion, I admit.

groan . .

556 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:10pm

re: #517 FurryOldGuyJeans

You are so full of shit. O condemned Bush constantly for doing what he wants to do now. Opportunism writ large, buttwipe.

Actually, I never condemned Bush for Iraq, although I though he was ill advised and fed bad intell.

557 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:11pm

re: #530 cronus

My pleasure to help out my Favorite Newbie. ;)

558 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #545 Iron Fist

Yes, so far it looks like O believes he can do anything. "Being a general just couldn't be that hard, could it?"

559 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #536 Afrocity

His friends liked it because he could shoot a gun and smoke a joint at the same time.

Pssshhh.

I had a "friend" who could roll a joint while driving AND eating a burrito.

560 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:16pm

re: #541 jaunte

He has terrible dyslexia, trouble enunciating, but is good at math.

I have sometimes thought my daughter was borderline dyslexic.

She's 17 and will still spell "first" as "frist", when she's in a rush.

And forget about being able to sound out a word to pronounce it. Cannot be done.

But she has been known to explain things to the math teacher when the teacher has gotten confused - just really way up there in her math skills.

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:19pm

re: #500 So?

I thought it was Al-Gore

No, he just sucks.

562 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:19pm

re: #545 Iron Fist

Obama strikes me as a micro-manager type. However, he let Pelosi and Reid write up the "Stimulus" plan....maybe he will let the Generals run the war....who knows.....we will all find out soon enough.

563 KansasMom  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:23pm

re: #511 Salamantis

Women who live together have their menstrual cycles synchronize, so they can compete for available males, and women who live out of doors evolved to become fertile during the full moon, when they can more easily be sought out at night to breed.

Virile men have a cycle, too. If they don't have sex for a month, they tend to have a wet dream (nocturnal emission). This cuts down on birth defects by expelling old sperms (the genetic material of which degrades much more rapidly than does the genetic material in womens' eggs), making way for fresh, nondegraded sperm.

Holy crap! Really?
Should make the next camping trip interesting.....

564 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:26pm

re: #549 Charles

Man. Out of the woodwork.

Stainless steel rats, eh?

565 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:35pm

re: #499 Sharmuta

I can ten-key with both hands. It's weirded out a few people.

I useta' be able to twirl the heck out of a baton with both hands/legs.

Does that count?

566 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:37pm

re: #543 Charles

I'm editing the posts with whiner quotes, to remove the whining quotes, but you need to reload the page to see the changes.

Until I figure out a way to update edits as well as deletes.

thank you!

567 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:44pm

re: #538 dammad

The theory of evolution does not cover how life began. Sorry.

568 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:45pm

re: #538 dammad

Humility is a good thing, but not in brain-numbing doses. And belief in G-d is fine with me-- I just don't think you get to cram it down other people's throats, or the throats of their children in public school science classes.

569 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:54:50pm

re: #544 BigPapa

Every time I leave, something exciting happens.

Let us test your theory.

;)

570 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:06pm

re: #549 Charles

Man. Out of the woodwork.

No. Man out of the dirt.

571 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:15pm

Evolutionary science is of course a science. Intelligent design is a conspiracy theory. Any school district that allows the teaching of ID/creationism might as well began teaching astrology or tarot as a form of science.

572 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:32pm

Speaking of creationists (were we?) I came across a blurb on this guy today and couldn't remember if there'd been anything posted on the ... developments ... in his case at LGF. It's a little stale but since I can't find anything on a cursory sweep, thought I'd post this here.

An appeals court upheld the federal prison sentences of creationist minister Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo Hovind, who were convicted of a host of tax-fraud charges.

Kent Hovind, 55, is serving a 10-year sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution in Edgefield S.C.

He was found guilty in November 2006 of failing to collect and pay $473,818 in employee-related taxes, obstructing tax laws and structuring transactions to avoid financial reporting laws.

Jo Hovind, 53, was sentenced to one year and a day in prison on 45 counts structuring transactions to avoid financial reporting laws.

She has remained free pending the outcome of the appeal. U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers will decide at an unscheduled hearing when Jo Hovind will begin serving her sentence.

The 18-page page opinion from the 11th District Court of Appeal released last week says that the Hovinds now must pay more than $600,000 in restitution.

Forfeiture proceedings against the Hovinds’ property, including their creationism theme park Dinosaur Adventure Land on Old Palafox Highway, are ongoing.

More background here.

573 hazzyday  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:34pm

It's a good article. Evolution does need to be understood better, especially by the scary part of those polls. That is shocking to me. Dawkins doesn't seem to intellectually acknowledge religion and faith as having any positive points? I might have missed it. When he states "Creationsim" I wonder to myself if he means "Yec'rs" or all religions? I am not clear as to his intellectual intent there. He's dealing out to religion, the same way he complains they are dealing to him.

I'm paraphrasing a scientist here. "Later, as a young adult, I easily embraced the atheistic viewpoint that seemed to make the most scientific sense." This is where the complaints form against evolution. People notice a large exposure to science and a lessor exposure to religion in society and it worries them.

But this should not deter people from understanding evolution as Dawkins does. He has an illuminating grasp of his topic. Almost divinely inspired. Something you don't see a lot of. He is deep, clear, and entertaining.

The Discovery Institute ID path is at best an illusion designed to fool the common citizen. The strength of court decisions should channel Intelligent Design into some backwater eddy of the humanities maybe cultural anthropology. That is where it belongs. Not as an alternative to evolution in a science class.

574 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:40pm

One thing about the creationism/ID people is that when you scratch the surface, many of them turn out to be racists as well.

What is racism? It's the idea that there are distinct groups within the species of mankind (self-evident), and that some of them are better than others (not evident at all), and that therefore the "better" ones should be privileged above the rest (plainly false).

But for there to be distinct groups, they had to come from somewhere. Since in the mind of a creationist they can't have "evolved", they must have been created separately by God. And since the creationist often holds that some are better than others, God must have created them thus.

Ergo, God is a racist, in their minds. The all-loving friend of humankind, to them, is a racist.

Never mind that we all came from Adam and Eve, and if there's no evolution, we necessarily all have to belong to the same race. That would be just too damn consistent for these people.

575 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:42pm

re: #570 MandyManners

No. Man out of the dirt.

And, Man was the PROTOTYPE.

576 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:47pm

re: #527 Racer X

Dude has been dead a long time.

I see that quote now and then, why are we still looking for him then ?`

577 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:50pm

re: #556 avanti

O, not you.

578 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:55:54pm

re: #538 dammad

I have a feeling that even the most "brilliant" scientists have no clue as to how life began.

Lots of clues. Lots of theories. No proof. But you are wrong to think evolution and religion are exclusive. You need to listen less and read more.

579 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:05pm

WTF if going on in this dang world ...is it me or does it seem to be spinning in a weird direction ...something has got to give ...I don't think Obama the Constant Campaigner is helping one damn bit ... I am so sick of the fear he tries to vomit all over this country ...I just have this feeling like every friggin idiot in the world is going to take their best shot and test his ass ...and we will all pay for it ...

It feels like something evil is reaching out and trying to pull this country down in the quicksand ...G-d I hope he is a one termer ...WAKE THE F*CK UP AMERICA ...

RANT OFF ...

580 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #571 Gus 802

Evolutionary science is of course a science. Intelligent design is a conspiracy theory. Any school district that allows the teaching of ID/creationism might as well began teaching astrology or tarot as a form of science.

I got The Tower card.... That's bad, right? ;)

581 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:08pm
582 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:11pm

re: #502 Rich H

I think it's important to write books and articles on Evolution like these, but I think it's also important to explain why Evolution is Science whereas Creationism is not.

Creationism - a.k.a. Intelligent Design - and Evolution are not competing scientific theories. The latter is a theory whereas the former is a dogma.

Scientific theories support evidence indiscriminately. When a new theory better supports the body of evidence, the older theory is discarded. The empirical evidence is the deciding factor.

Science like climate change?re: #511 Salamantis

Women who live together have their menstrual cycles synchronize, so they can compete for available males, and women who live out of doors evolved to become fertile during the full moon, when they can more easily be sought out at night to breed.

Virile men have a cycle, too. If they don't have sex for a month, they tend to have a wet dream (nocturnal emission). This cuts down on birth defects by expelling old sperms (the genetic material of which degrades much more rapidly than does the genetic material in womens' eggs), making way for fresh, nondegraded sperm.

How do men and womens bodies know to do that?

583 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:22pm

re: #547 Sharmuta

One of my bosses demanded to know why my calculator was on my left.

Because I can.

Cool! I can do that too!

584 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:36pm

re: #565 MandyManners

I useta' be able to twirl the heck out of a baton with both hands/legs. Does that count?

I can touch my eyelids with my tongue :)

585 esch  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:39pm

re: #564 FurryOldGuyJeans

Stainless steel rats, eh?

I want a dobbin-burger.

I knew there were other Harrison fans out there.

586 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:56:49pm

re: #526 reine.de.tout

Is your son very good at math and science, but has trouble spelling and "sounding out" words?

Dr. Ginger Campbell has a podcast on iTunes that discusses the latest in brain science. I think one guest interviewed discussed something similar to what you mentioned. Check it out. On iTune it's called The Brain Podcast.

587 irongrampa  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:15pm

re: #545 Iron Fist

I wouldn't bet much that he'll do just that-micromanage like LBJ did. What I've observed thus far points that direction, imho.

588 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:20pm

re: #580 Sharmuta

A little bit. Now when you say The Tower I think of, let me see, you know those folks that like to go door to door.

589 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:30pm
590 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #565 MandyManners

I useta' be able to twirl the heck out of a baton with both hands/legs.

Does that count?

and I can pick my nose with either index finger...I am very accomplished at this...people are amazed

591 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:39pm

re: #559 Racer X

Pssshhh.

I had a "friend" who could roll a joint while driving AND eating a burrito.

My grandfather could roll a cigarette one-handed from beginning to end, including pulling the tobaco pouch out and opening it. Learned while herding cattle.

592 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:43pm

re: #581 dammad

That's not why your post was deleted and you know that, butt hole.

593 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:57:54pm

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

I can touch my eyelids with my tongue :)

I can wiggle my ears.

Each separately, or both together.

594 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:01pm

oops #582 is an accident! Top half needs to go.... sigh.

595 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:07pm

re: #581 dammad

Not having seen the original statement and knowing the standards of this site, I strongly suspect you said a hell of a lot more than that and in a lousy fashion. Quit whining.

596 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:18pm

re: #586 So?

Dr. Ginger Campbell has a podcast on iTunes that discusses the latest in brain science. I think one guest interviewed discussed something similar to what you mentioned. Check it out. On iTune it's called The Brain Podcast.

I will indeed!
thanks.

597 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:27pm

re: #581 dammad

Wow, you said a lot more than that. Don't act surprised.

598 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:28pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

One thing about the creationism/ID people is that when you scratch the surface, many of them turn out to be racists as well.

What is racism? It's the idea that there are distinct groups within the species of mankind (self-evident), and that some of them are better than others (not evident at all), and that therefore the "better" ones should be privileged above the rest (plainly false).

But for there to be distinct groups, they had to come from somewhere. Since in the mind of a creationist they can't have "evolved", they must have been created separately by God. And since the creationist often holds that some are better than others, God must have created them thus.

Ergo, God is a racist, in their minds. The all-loving friend of humankind, to them, is a racist.

Never mind that we all came from Adam and Eve, and if there's no evolution, we necessarily all have to belong to the same race. That would be just too damn consistent for these people.

My hubby things that the creationism is rooting in racism. They idea that a person could have "ancestors" of any kind in Afrika was/is horrifying to some people.

599 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:31pm

re: #593 reine.de.tout

I can wiggle my ears.

Each separately, or both together.

I find that very attractive in a girl

600 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:46pm

re: #580 Sharmuta

I got The Tower card.... That's bad, right? ;)

Looks like the Fool is needed by lots more people. Not you, of course.

601 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:49pm

re: #444 Mich-again

He should be clearer in his writing then. If a process relies on the succession of a random event followed by a non-random event, it is still a random process.

No, ther process taken as a whole is semi-random - and semi-not.

602 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:58:59pm

For perhaps the 976th time - I am going to delete comments whining about the threads related to evolution.

603 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:02pm

re: #538 dammad

The so-called "evolution" posts are NOT, in the end, about God!
I believe in God too. I see Charles' point. I think he's right.
Does that imply to you that I don't (or can't) believe in God?

If I'm mistaking your meaning, forgive me, but I am utterly fed up with people trying to turn the D.I. threads (which are the bottom line of the "evolution" threads) into anti-God threads.

/and the rant is NOT off!

604 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:06pm

re: #538 dammad

Where do you people come from? Has their been one post here from one scientist that claimed to know where life comes from? they study the fossil records you *beep*
If you are going to play the gotcha science game here..You need to bring your A game..

605 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:09pm

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

606 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:12pm

re: #576 avanti

I see that quote now and then, why are we still looking for him then ?`

To put his head on a pike?

607 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:17pm

Crap. Clean-up on 595, meant to reply, not quote.

608 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 7:59:33pm

re: #561 Slumbering Behemoth

No, he just sucks.

Soon we won't have any air, if he keeps it up.

609 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:03pm

re: #582 TooDamNice

How do men [sic] and womens [sic] bodies know to do that?

How does your blood "know" how to coagulate?

610 So?  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:25pm

re: #596 reine.de.tout

I will indeed!
thanks.

oops. It's called The Brain Science Podcast.

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:26pm

re: #578 Mich-again

Lots of clues. Lots of theories. No proof. But you are wrong to think evolution and religion are exclusive. You need to listen less and read more.

How could they? Even "brilliant" scientists are not G-d and they don't try to be. They simply are following the clues discovered by the the brain G-d gave them.

612 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:26pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

A loud WHACK, or, a flushing toilet?

613 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:32pm

re: #585 esch

I want a dobbin-burger.

I knew there were other Harrison fans out there.

Been too many years since I lost my library to my ex that a dobbin-burger escapes me. Only a few grungy parts of his works come to mind.

614 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:41pm

re: #610 So?

OK.
thanks.

615 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:00:41pm

re: #530 cronus

Welcome!

616 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:05pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

people would go nuts...swarm

617 esch  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:29pm

re: #613 FurryOldGuyJeans

Buy the compilations, they're cheap.

And he's a great guy. I met him once.

618 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:31pm

re: #612 BigPapa

Maybe the sound of a primate. "Ook-ook."

619 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:37pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

A toilet flush?

620 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:38pm

re: #582 TooDamNice

the dingo's told them.

621 Syrah  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:58pm

re: #564 FurryOldGuyJeans

Have you read the Harry Harrison Stainless Steal Rat Stories?

622 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:01:58pm

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

I can touch my eyelids with my tongue :)

liar!

:0

623 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:02:19pm

re: #622 ggt

Now that's a lizard.

624 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:02:23pm

From [Link: voize.my...]

"Going further back in time, another interesting annecdote can be told about James Garfield, who became the 20th US president in 1881 (he was murdered only 4 months later). Garfield is known as an 'ambidextrous' US president because he could write proficiently with both his right and left hand. Even more interesting is the report about Garfield that he could write simultaneously with one hand in Greek language, and with the other in Latin language. By the way, Garfield has also been reported as the only US president in history that has been employed as a “writing master” (writing masters taught students penmanship and were not uncommon during the 19th century).

By the way, in these days "left-handedness" used to be considered as 'not right', merely because the word 'left' had a negative connotation in language. Some examples: In French, it's the word 'gauche', which also means awkward or improper. And in Latin, it's the word 'sinister', which we take to mean evil or unlucky."

625 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:02:27pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

How does your blood "know" how to coagulate?

That is a chemical reaction. Getting all fertile when the moon shines is a little more than that I think. Could be wrong though...

626 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:02:32pm

re: #607 CynicalConservative

Thanks Charles!

627 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:02:48pm

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

Spin in place to Donna Summer's Macarthur Park and we'll talk.

Youtube Video
628 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:03:27pm

re: #617 esch

Buy the compilations, they're cheap.

And he's a great guy. I met him once.

OMG ..you met George Harrison ..he was my favorite Beatle and I loved him ...I listened to All Things Must Pass about a gazillion times ...I would have fainted if I met him ...silly I know but what a crush I had on him ...

629 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:03:31pm

Bye Saturn. Bye Pontiac:

"...G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division..."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

630 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:03:38pm

re: #621 Syrah

Have you read the Harry Harrison Stainless Steal Rat Stories?

That is why I made my original Stainless steel rats comment. ;)

Rats strong enough to chew through metal wainscoting.

631 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:03:49pm

re: #576 avanti

I see that quote now and then, why are we still looking for him then ?`

Simple.

If Osama is indeed dead, the left will proclaim terrorism to be over, and time to bring all troops home. Reality is there are many more terrorists who just need killin'.

632 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:04:17pm

re: #590 albusteve

and I can pick my nose with either index finger...I am very accomplished at this...people are amazed

Well, aren't you special!

633 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:04:20pm

re: #617 esch

Buy the compilations, they're cheap.

And he's a great guy. I met him once.

Cheap is financially a burden at times. :%P%

634 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:04:20pm

re: #629 MJ

GM going out of business would be one evolution I would like to see occur.

635 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:04:34pm

Man this place just isn't the same.

I remember long ago when there was only a few evo threads a year. Of course you had to grind out the papyrus by hand and milk about a ton of squid ink to get a comment in. And PIMF -- what the hell was that? Of course come to think of it, things were so slow I guess there were only a few threads a year anyway...

636 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:04:54pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

Nominations are open.

Bronx Cheer
*splat* of something like a cow-pie hitting a brick wall

637 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:03pm

re: #506 avanti

We don't agree much, but I can certainly raise a glass to that.

638 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:05pm

re: #602 Charles

For perhaps the 976th time - I am going to delete comments whining about the threads related to evolution.

What? You don't like folks peeing on your coffee table?

639 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:11pm

re: #627 MandyManners

What?

640 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:32pm

re: #601 Salamantis

No, ther process taken as a whole is semi-random - and semi-not.

Uhhh. No. If an outcome depends on a random event then its a random outcome.

But my point is that Dawkins should explain himself a little better when he throws around the "random" word. He pretty much ridiculed the notion that evolution happened "by chance", or randomly. But the prevailing knowledge says that genetic mutations (that are the driving force behind evolution) are random occurrences.

641 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:32pm

re: #593 reine.de.tout

I can wiggle my ears.

My wife wiggles my ears.

642 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:35pm

re: #629 MJ

Bye Saturn. Bye Pontiac:

"...G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division..."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


people have been telling GM this very thing for at least twenty years...hello?

643 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:36pm

re: #628 JacksonTn

OMG ..you met George Harrison ..he was my favorite Beatle and I loved him ...I listened to All Things Must Pass about a gazillion times ...I would have fainted if I met him ...silly I know but what a crush I had on him ...

Harry Harrison, author.

644 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:38pm

re: #629 MJ

Interesting. When I was living in Nashville, I knew the family that owned the farm in Springfield Tennessee where the Saturn factory was later constructed. Lots of Tennessee jobs will vanish with the Saturn plant.

645 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:52pm

re: #552 OldLineTexan

I sometimes make it to Palmdale.

That's about 200 miles south of me. Who knows, maybe I'll win the lotto one day, and throw a big Lizard get together.

646 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:05:59pm

re: #636 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Sound of thunder.

Maybe that could be a cool precursor.

647 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:01pm

re: #629 MJ

Bye Saturn. Bye Pontiac:

"...G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division..."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Makes great sense. They have too many brands using way too many different engineering schemes, blocks, etc. trimming to a few standards and keeping the names makes a great deal of sense.

648 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:02pm

re: #612 BigPapa

A loud WHACK, or, a flushing toilet?

Toilet is good

649 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:04pm

re: #639 Walter L. Newton

What?

Maisey!

/here's a dollar - go crap in Walter's hat

650 TooDamNice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:17pm

re: #635 unclassifiable

wow.

651 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:33pm

re: #641 Racer X

My wife wiggles my ears.

Ahhh, Fwench. You lucky bastidge.

652 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:52pm

re: #643 FurryOldGuyJeans

Harry Harrison, author.

Well, I still loved George ...guess I should have read the thread a little more ...sorry ...I am having a tough day ...my head is about to explode ...

653 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:06:56pm

I see three toilet votes.

654 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:07:24pm

re: #645 Slumbering Behemoth

That's about 200 miles south of me. Who knows, maybe I'll win the lotto one day, and throw a big Lizard get together.

Wasn't that where Zappa was raised? Somebody told me that once

655 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:07:27pm

re: #644 quickjustice

Interesting. When I was living in Nashville, I knew the family that owned the farm in Springfield Tennessee where the Saturn factory was later constructed. Lots of Tennessee jobs will vanish with the Saturn plant.

all things must pass

656 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:07:27pm

toilet for deletes,
whack for bannings.

657 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:07:28pm

Good thing we're not in Australia. I'd hate to see the toilet flush tax bill for tonight.

658 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:07:58pm

re: #646 unclassifiable

Sound of thunder.

Maybe that could be a cool precursor.

Yes.

659 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:08:05pm

re: #527 Racer X

I did read the post again. I think Avanti covered that prospect in the post.

660 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:08:14pm

re: #652 JacksonTn

Well, I still loved George ...guess I should have read the thread a little more ...sorry ...I am having a tough day ...my head is about to explode ...

Just for you:

Youtube Video
661 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:08:15pm

re: #639 Walter L. Newton

What?

WHAT?

662 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:08:22pm

re: #653 BigPapa

I see three toilet votes.

Make it four.

663 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:08:45pm

re: #655 albusteve

all things must pass

That's what the monkey said after he ate the cue ball, but he was wrong, wrong, wrong.

664 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:09pm

re: #662 Dark_Falcon

Make it four.

A four flusher!

/nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk

665 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:15pm

re: #661 MandyManners

WHAT?

I didn't understand the spin in place comment. But, I would love to do that for you (I think).

666 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:23pm

re: #660 Bloodnok

Just for you:


[Video]

Thank you so much ...love him ...

667 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:24pm

Time for me to check out. Work calling again.

668 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:35pm

re: #656 ggt

Hmmm.. .yep.

669 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:42pm

re: #663 OldLineTexan

That's what the monkey said after he ate the cue ball, but he was wrong, wrong, wrong.

thats no excuse for eating someones hands for lunch tho

670 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:09:49pm

re: #593 reine.de.tout

I can wiggle my ears.

Each separately, or both together.

YOU, TOO?!

671 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:06pm

re: #661 MandyManners

WHAT?

EH?

672 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:16pm
673 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #656 ggt

toilet for deletes,
whack for bannings.

I still want a bell sound for updings and a buzzer sound for downdings.

Oh well- I do the sound effects on this end myself anyways.

674 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:47pm

re: #669 albusteve

thats no excuse for eating someones hands for lunch tho

And here, children, is a life lesson ... if your friends have dangerous wild animals, get new friends.

675 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:47pm

re: #663 OldLineTexan

That's what the monkey said after he ate the cue ball, but he was wrong, wrong, wrong.

It's awfully hard to hit the up-ding button instead of the down-ding when one is laughing so hard there are tears in your eyes.

676 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #655 albusteve

all things must pass

They don't make Saturns there anymore. They make the Chevy Traverse.

677 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #615 Afrocity

Thanks, nice to be among other defenders of modernity. On a separate note MY GOD this site moves fast!

678 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:10:59pm
679 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #672 dammad

Blah Blah Blah. Contribute don't whine.

680 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:19pm

Creationist troll anthem

681 KansasMom  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:19pm

re: #672 dammad

Bah-WOOSH!

682 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:21pm

Couldn't take the hint, even with an explicit warning.

That's enough.

683 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:35pm

re: #563 KansasMom

Holy crap! Really?
Should make the next camping trip interesting.....

I didn't phrase that well; let me try again:

Women who live together have their menstrual cycles synchronize, so they can compete for available males, and women evolved to become fertile during the full moon, so they can more easily be sought out at night to breed during the period (heh) when they can conceive, which is why women who live out of doors have their menstrual cycles synchonize with the moon.

684 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:42pm

re: #678 albusteve

shit...sorry

685 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:46pm

re: #598 ggt

My hubby things that the creationism is rooting in racism. They idea that a person could have "ancestors" of any kind in Afrika was/is horrifying to some people.

Yes. And "Adam" and "Eve" ((Hebrew: אָדָם‎, ʼĀḏām, "dust; man; mankind") and Eve (Hebrew: Ḥawwā, "living one") were handsome WASPs as shown in the Creation Museum! LOL!

The very names show that the Genesis account is a poetic story explaining the origins of humankind, not a genealogy with literal names at the root of the family tree. And the pun on adam/adom (man/red earth in Hebrew) shoes that the concept of "whiteness" never entered the heads of the Hebrew writers.

686 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:54pm
687 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:11:56pm
688 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:03pm

There is no theory of evolution...

Haven't read through. Probably already been done.

689 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:04pm

Dammad, how flushing.....

690 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:04pm

Whatever happened to just leaving?

Now everyone feels like they gotta give a soliloquy.

691 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:42pm

re: #679 CynicalConservative

Blah Blah Blah. Contribute don't whine.

Will be doing neither now. Suicide by Stinky.

692 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:44pm

re: #564 FurryOldGuyJeans

Stainless steel rats, eh?

Not really. Harry Harrison's stainless steel rat was a good guy.

693 Archimedes  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:12:51pm

I believe Karl Popper is the father of the idea of "falsifiability" ... I'm not really sure why this idea is put forth as being central to science, when the scientific method was developed well before he was born. Newton actually set out his rules of scientific investigation, and they worked very well.

Aristotle is the father of science, having set out the whole idea of studying the evidence, and hypothesizing and re-hypothesizing continually, all the while banging contradictions out of the hypothesis by consulting the evidence.

During the Renaissance then came important additions of precise measurement and the experimental method. Galileo and Newton used the experimental method and measurement to great effect.

694 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:17pm

re: #685 Cato the Elder

Ha! Aren't they always handsome WASPs. Or as you see in their literature it's usually some young white kid with blonde hair and blue eyes standing in front of smiling dinosaur.

695 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:23pm

re: #685 Cato the Elder

Yes. And "Adam" and "Eve" ((Hebrew: אָדָם‎, ʼĀḏām, "dust; man; mankind") and Eve (Hebrew: Ḥawwā, "living one") were handsome WASPs as shown in the Creation Museum! LOL!

The very names show that the Genesis account is a poetic story explaining the origins of humankind, not a genealogy with literal names at the root of the family tree. And the pun on adam/adom (man/red earth in Hebrew) shoes that the concept of "whiteness" never entered the heads of the Hebrew writers.

Well, Jesus was blond, I've seen pictures!

696 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:28pm

re: #691 FurryOldGuyJeans

Will be doing neither now. Suicide by Stinky.

Yeah, figured that'd be the case when typing, but wanted to get the sentiment out.

697 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:30pm

re: #686 MandyManners

U B SEW FUNNNEE.

Well put some money in the hat lady!

698 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:33pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

how about this one

Youtube Video
699 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:52pm

On the US car industry, I have some secret info on the new car the government will have them build.

It will be made of carbon-absorbing bamboo; have an environmentally friendly motor; carry four adults with plenty of room; and include flow-through ventilation.

Here is the picture

700 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:53pm

re: #675 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's awfully hard to hit the up-ding button instead of the down-ding when one is laughing so hard there are tears in your eyes.

It gets worse.

The same monkey is later seen in a bar, solemnly shoving peanuts up his Pelosi before sadly removing and eating them.

When other patrons remarked on this odd sight, the bartender informed them that the poor monkey fit-checks everything, since the cue ball.

701 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:53pm

re: #629 MJ

Bye Saturn. Bye Pontiac:

"...G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division..."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

This gutting the hell out of America.

I hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enought IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

702 Syrah  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:13:58pm

re: #630 FurryOldGuyJeans

I liked the stories.

The Stainless Steal Rat was a little morally twisted but sympathetically so.
Maybe its the Gin talking, ( I have had a lot tonight). but somehow it grates on me to convey to the Kook-Creationist the same level of respect that I think the Stainless Steal Rat is due.

703 doppelganglander  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:14:01pm

re: #683 Salamantis

I didn't phrase that well; let me try again:

Women who live together have their menstrual cycles synchronize, so they can compete for available males, and women evolved to become fertile during the full moon, so they can more easily be sought out at night to breed during the period (heh) when they can conceive, which is why women who live out of doors have their menstrual cycles synchonize with the moon.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I go camping.

704 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:14:11pm

re: #628 JacksonTn

OMG ..you met George Harrison ..he was my favorite Beatle and I loved him ...I listened to All Things Must Pass about a gazillion times ...I would have fainted if I met him ...silly I know but what a crush I had on him ...

The quiet Beatle.

Youtube Video
705 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:14:20pm

Saturn Vue, made in Ramos Arizpe Mexico.
Saturn Astra, made in Antwerp, Belgium
Saturn Aura, made in Fairfax Kansas
Saturn Sky, made in Wilmington Delaware
Saturn Outlook, made in Lansing Michigan

706 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:14:31pm

re: #672 dammad

Uhhh-- so if Charles expresses opinions on his own blog, and polices his blog according to standards he clearly sets out, and you are unable to challenge ideas with which you disagree in any coherent way, except to say you believe in G-d, a personal belief which no one here challenges, you find this virtual universe "scary"?

Go home and hide under the bed. Or watch ice hockey. Ice hockey is nice.

707 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:14:56pm

for some reason i can't follow his logic

708 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:15:03pm

re: #692 Salamantis

Not really. Harry Harrison's stainless steel rat was a good guy.

He was still a career criminal. And his bride, Angela(?), oooof!

709 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:15:09pm

OMG ... Mandy lost a comment!
Battle of Godzilla and Megawhattizname, comin' up!

/

710 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:15:30pm

re: #704 Spare O'Lake

The quiet Beatle.

[Video]

Sigh ...Patti Boyd had my two favorites ...George and Eric ...I hated her ...

711 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:15:43pm

re: #665 Walter L. Newton

I didn't understand the spin in place comment. But, I would love to do that for you (I think).

WHAT?!

Seriously, it's an advanced majorette thing when you spin around while bouncing the baton off your shoulders and elbows.

712 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:15:52pm

re: #673 Sharmuta

I still want a bell sound for updings and a buzzer sound for downdings.

Oh well- I do the sound effects on this end myself anyways.

Only on your own comments? Otherwise it would be a cacauphany (sp-help!) of sounds.

d@mn, I'm tired.

713 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:04pm

re: #690 unclassifiable

Whatever happened to just leaving?

Now everyone feels like they gotta give a soliloquy.

"I'll be revenged on the whole pack of you" -Malvolio, Twelfth Night

714 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:06pm

re: #701 MandyManners

This gutting the hell out of America.

I hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enought IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

Well I agree on you sentiments about McCain but GM should have gotten rid of the redundent brands a long time ago.

715 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:17pm

re: #699 Kosh's Shadow

Here is the picture

Ah yes, coconuts stored at Fort Knox. ;)

716 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:31pm
717 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:48pm

re: #701 MandyManners

This gutting the hell out of America.

I hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enought IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

GM has been on the ropes for years...they refused to streamline, compromise or look to the future...McCain couldnt save these guys..they should go down legit...fuck the bailout

718 itellu3times  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:16:55pm

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

719 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:33pm

re: #707 Gella

for some reason i can't follow his logic

Who's logic can you not follow?

720 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:36pm

re: #697 unclassifiable

Well put some money in the hat lady!

I ain't no lady. I'm a woman.

721 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:36pm

re: #701 MandyManners

I wouldn't pin that on the people who didn't vote for McCain or the people who did.

722 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:38pm

Here's a good song for when Stinky whacks a troll

Youtube Video
723 Cognito  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:38pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

Made me laugh.

724 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:17:56pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

Does Michelle know?

725 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:00pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

fewww its banks, i thought u are talking about him getting a mistress

726 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:02pm

re: #582 TooDamNice

How do men and womens bodies know to do that?

The members of their ancestry with bodies that did that produced more kids with less problems than those whose bodies didn't, so they were environmentally selected for (the environment being a planet with both day and night, and with a 28 day lunar cycle).

727 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:10pm

Comments complaining about threads related to evolution will be deleted.

728 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:22pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

Tiger ain't gonna like that.

729 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:39pm

re: #707 Gella

for some reason i can't follow his logic

Who's logic? What is it you always leave comments that refer to "something" but it's never really clear who or what you are talking about?

730 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:45pm

re: #719 Dark_Falcon

Who's logic can you not follow?

Richard Dawkins

731 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:49pm

re: #716 zerodamage

I miss the tech related posts. I could care less about the Evolution inspired posts to be honest. I am a Christian and also believe in evolution. Does that make me a pariah?

Nope. That's an honest opinion that doesn't cross the line of telling our host what to do.

732 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:55pm

re: #133 Ulpianus

Though I am an atheist, I generally find Dawkins to be irritating.

Many atheists would agree with you on this.

In defense of his own anti-religiousness, however, Dawkins once said something that still makes me sympathize with him (hugely paraphrasing from memory):

"Suppose you were a Classics scholar who'd made a long career studying the language, culture, art, and history of ancient Rome. And suppose that every week you got 15 or 20 letters from crackpots eager to share their pet theory about how Rome was actually founded by Incas who'd crossed the Atlantic in reed boats. And -- after you'd patiently explained why this idea is without the tiniest bit of linguistic, genetic, or archeological foundation -- they sent still more letters berating you for being closed-minded and anti-Incan. Wouldn't you get irritable after a while?"

Thus, I can forgive Dawkins somewhat for being a "pushy" atheist just because I know quite well how insufferable Creationists can be.

733 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:56pm

or maybe this would make a good sound effect(with a little editing)

Youtube Video
734 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:18:57pm

re: #712 ggt

Only on your own comments? Otherwise it would be a cacauphany (sp-help!) of sounds.

d@mn, I'm tired.

Well- like sometimes when I upding a comment, I'm sitting on my end here actually saying, "Ding!". But other times it might be, "Fuckin,' right on!" or "WTF's with that fascist lovin' comment?!" or "Buzzzzzzz, WRONG!"

It varies.

735 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:11pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

can you blame him?

736 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:18pm

re: #711 MandyManners

I'm going quote part of this to my wife (a twirler, coach and judge) so she thinks this is partially why I've been on LGF for 1...2...3 hours? I've lost track.

737 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:22pm

re: #731 CynicalConservative

Oops, or not. Blushing and cringing...

738 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:22pm

re: #695 Walter L. Newton

Well, Jesus was blond, I've seen pictures!

This Jesus?

739 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:23pm

re: #714 unclassifiable

Well I agree on you sentiments about McCain but GM should have gotten rid of the redundent brands a long time ago.

So?

Would this nation be lurching toward a socialist hell-hole if McCain had been elected?

740 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:29pm
741 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:19:52pm

Comments getting deleted left and right tonight. Boy, are these trolls dumb. Charles has hung out a sign saying, "If you grab this bar you will get shocked", and yet they still reach for that bar.

742 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:00pm

bbiab

743 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:05pm
744 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:13pm

re: #718 itellu3times

From the Drudge link:
“The danger we face is a Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae scenario where government gives the banking sector guarantees and then socialises the losses,” says Adam Posen, an economist. “That’s the worst thing we could do.”
[Link: www.ft.com...]

So that's pretty much what will happen, (imho).

745 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:22pm

re: #721 Mich-again

I wouldn't pin that on the people who didn't vote for McCain or the people who did.

*sigh*

746 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:36pm

re: #720 MandyManners

I ain't no lady. I'm a woman.

Peggy Lee, is that you?

747 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:20:54pm

re: #730 Gella

Richard Dawkins

What about his logic can you not follow?

748 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:01pm

re: #714 unclassifiable

Well I agree on you sentiments about McCain but GM should have gotten rid of the redundent brands a long time ago.

Could'a, should'a, would'a. If regrets could be harvested I would have the world's biggest fruitbasket.

749 Syrah  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:04pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

So I will finally be a blond? From a rust red to blond all within The Ones first one hundred days!

A miracle!

How like unto a god he is!

750 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:06pm

re: #540 Salamantis

re: #378 Tarheel

My problem with Dawkins is very much the same as my problem with the Creationists just in opposite directions. Dawkins is militant and proselytizing in his atheism and the Creationists are militant and proselytizing creationists, both of which want to impose their belief systems on all of us.

I have no time for either one!

Tarheel

Empirical science isn't a belief system; it's what can be known in the basis of scientific evidence. Your attempt at equivocation is noted and rejected, with good and sufficient cause.


Salamantis, I think his post had some merit.

You rightfully note science not having a belief component. But to simply dismiss his argument is not true.

Tarheel has made a comparison, as the philosophical extremes in which the purveyors of either side of the coin can be obnoxious, and place their boot upon the neck of society. He was not making the argument of a belief system per se.

Millions of dead Orthodox peasantry might take exception to this.

751 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:17pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

I love Swedish Fish. The best candy ever made.

752 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:20pm

This place used to be so freakin awesome, but alas, I cannot stay. I'm going to leave because of the oppression, and hate, and, ya know, bad stuff.

I'm going to leave, it's just too much, the.. bad evil stuff.

You all suck and I can't take it any more, the evil bad stuff.

No really, I'm leaving now, I can't take it any more. This place is too much. You're all a bunch of Honcos.

I'm going to leave. I said, I'm going to LEAVE! LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!

OK, good bye.

Bye.

Later.

See ya!

Bye!

753 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:24pm

What's with all of the people with LGF accounts from 2004 thur 2006 going postal? Most of them have fewer than 50 comment.
What's drawing them out of the woodwork? I can understand newbies and trolls getting in and self destructing early...weird.

754 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:33pm

Evolution of Chicago Politician

755 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:38pm

re: #582 TooDamNice

Science like climate change?

Yep, that, too. As more and more data comes in that indicates that the human impact upon temperature climate change is an insignificant percentage of a total that is mostly affected by solar cycles, more and more researchers are following the empirical evidence away from considering climate change to be mostly anthropogenic.

756 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:49pm
757 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:50pm

re: #732 Throbert McGee

I can forgive Dawkins somewhat for being a "pushy" atheist just because I know quite well how insufferable Creationists can be.

And how.

758 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:53pm

re: #748 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could'a, should'a, would'a. If regrets could be harvested I would have the world's biggest fruitbasket.

You and me both brother ...and those are just the ones I can remember ...

759 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:21:54pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

Does she wear a blue dress?

760 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:32pm

re: #748 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could'a, should'a, would'a. If regrets could be harvested I would have the world's biggest fruitbasket.

they were warned...they know what they did...it's despicable to crawl to the taxpayers carrying the UAW on their back....to hell with GM

761 Gus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:38pm

re: #748 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sort of reminds me of those tiring WWII "what ifs" shows.

762 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:50pm

re: #736 cronus

I'm going quote part of this to my wife (a twirler, coach and judge) so she thinks this is partially why I've been on LGF for 1...2...3 hours? I've lost track.

Oh, for pity's sake. Do what you need to do. On your own.

763 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:51pm

re: #745 MandyManners

*sigh*

The $150 barrel oil was the stick in the spokes. Yep the oil is cheaper now but once the big flywheel slows down its not so easy to get it spinning again.

764 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:51pm

Sorry, Charles. I quoted 716 instead of replying.
I thought it might have been an honest question.

765 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:22:53pm

re: #718 itellu3times

From [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Swedish model: "Sweden took a different course than the one now being proposed by the United States Treasury. And Swedish officials say there are lessons from their own nightmare that Washington may be missing.

Sweden did not just bail out its financial institutions by having the government take over the bad debts. It extracted pounds of flesh from bank shareholders before writing checks. Banks had to write down losses and issue warrants to the government.

That strategy held banks responsible and turned the government into an owner. When distressed assets were sold, the profits flowed to taxpayers, and the government was able to recoup more money later by selling its shares in the companies as well.

“If I go into a bank,” said Bo Lundgren, who was Sweden’s minister for fiscal and financial affairs at the time, “I’d rather get equity so that there is some upside for the taxpayer.”

Sweden spent 4 percent of its gross domestic product, or 65 billion kronor, the equivalent of $11.7 billion at the time, or $18.3 billion in today’s dollars, to rescue ailing banks. That is slightly less, proportionate to the national economy, than the $700 billion, or roughly 5 percent of gross domestic product, that the Bush administration estimates its own move will cost in the United States.

But the final cost to Sweden ended up being less than 2 percent of its G.D.P. Some officials say they believe it was closer to zero, depending on how certain rates of return are calculated."

766 kansas  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:04pm

re: #752 BigPapa

What Papa said. Night. Good thread.

767 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:05pm
768 Achilles Tang  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:43pm

re: #718 itellu3times

Drudge says Obama is moving towards a Swedish model, that's all I know.

First Tiger Woods, now Obama.

769 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:52pm

re: #752 BigPapa

re: #753 jorline

What's with all of the people with LGF accounts from 2004 thur 2006 going postal? Most of them have fewer than 50 comment.
What's drawing them out of the woodwork? I can understand newbies and trolls getting in and self destructing early...weird.

Probably figure Mr. HopeyChangey makes it OK now.

770 itellu3times  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:54pm

re: #693 Archimedes

I believe Karl Popper is the father of the idea of "falsifiability" ... I'm not really sure why this idea is put forth as being central to science, when the scientific method was developed well before he was born. Newton actually set out his rules of scientific investigation, and they worked very well.

Aristotle is the father of science, having set out the whole idea of studying the evidence, and hypothesizing and re-hypothesizing continually, all the while banging contradictions out of the hypothesis by consulting the evidence.

During the Renaissance then came important additions of precise measurement and the experimental method. Galileo and Newton used the experimental method and measurement to great effect.

The cliche is that you ancient Greeks didn't *experiment*, and there's something about the use of counterfactuals instead of just positive logic, that sets a lot of philosophers all tingly. Aristotle was descriptive, not predictive. Stuff like that.

771 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:59pm

re: #727 Charles

Comments complaining about threads related to evolution will be deleted.

I have been stunned the last hour Charles..Unreal..
So you didn't answer my question the other night..What musical influence did fusion have on your playing style? Who is your fav guitarist of all time?
Stuck on an island with one CD..which one.?

772 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:24:04pm

re: #754 Afrocity

Evolution of Chicago Politician

LMAO! I love that one. Marked as favorite and updinged!

773 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:24:09pm

re: #752 BigPapa

This place used to be so freakin awesome, but alas, I cannot stay. I'm going to leave because of the oppression, and hate, and, ya know, bad stuff.

I'm going to leave, it's just too much, the.. bad evil stuff.

You all suck and I can't take it any more, the evil bad stuff.

No really, I'm leaving now, I can't take it any more. This place is too much. You're all a bunch of Honcos.

I'm going to leave. I said, I'm going to LEAVE! LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!

OK, good bye.

Bye.

Later.

See ya!

Bye!

Don't forget to send hate mail after the dramatic exit.

And then watch everything I post, and go to other blogs and trash me, then use different email addresses to register sock puppets, over and over.

774 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:24:31pm

re: #747 Dark_Falcon

What about his logic can you not follow?

i had to read his book The Selfish Gene back in college, for some reason it still not clear to me

775 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:24:32pm

re: #759 NJDhockeyfan

Does she wear a blue dress?

Obama could not possibly have anything left to "contribute" to a blue dress after all these months of the MSM on their knees in front of him.

776 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:24:45pm

re: #739 MandyManners

So?

Would this nation be lurching toward a socialist hell-hole if McCain had been elected?

It's fascism. That's what Michael Ledeen says.

And I don't know if we would be or not. Let's remember that before O was in office we just gave 700 billion to the financial industry and those guys did not even have to stand up in front of Congress and get their fair share of abuse.

I voted for McCain on the hope that he would adhere to conservative principals but it seems with all politicians these days that is all you get.

777 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:25:26pm

re: #775 OldLineTexan

Obama could not possibly have anything left to "contribute" to a blue dress after all these months of the MSM on their knees in front of him.

ROFLMAO!

Upding!

778 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #773 Charles

Don't forget to send hate mail after the dramatic exit.

And then watch everything I post, and go to other blogs and trash me, then use different email addresses to register sock puppets, over and over.

Can't you ban a user based on his/her IP?

779 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:25:45pm

(Pretty sure BigPapa's being sarcastic, BTW.)

780 irongrampa  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:25:55pm

Wow. Let's give this crew COMPLETE control of our banking institutions.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

781 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:25:55pm

re: #752 BigPapa

You live in Kona!

You leave and you still live in paradise!

Not fair not fair not fair!

782 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:26:27pm

re: #773 Charles

And then lie about why your account was deleted.

783 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:26:45pm

re: #779 Charles

(Pretty sure BigPapa's being sarcastic, BTW.)

Hard to tell? Sounded real to me.

784 cronus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:26:50pm

night all

785 winston06  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:14pm

re: #68 MJ

I see. Well, I really had no clue. Now that I know I'll have to take him with a lot more grain of salt than I did before

786 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:16pm
787 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:17pm

re: #779 Charles

Charles, I just deleted a post to that effect.

788 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:35pm

re: #752 BigPapa

This place used to be so freakin awesome, but alas, I cannot stay. I'm going to leave because of the oppression, and hate, and, ya know, bad stuff.

I'm going to leave, it's just too much, the.. bad evil stuff.

You all suck and I can't take it any more, the evil bad stuff.

No really, I'm leaving now, I can't take it any more. This place is too much. You're all a bunch of Honcos.

I'm going to leave. I said, I'm going to LEAVE! LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!

OK, good bye.

Bye.

Later.

See ya!

Bye!

U Da' bomb!

789 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:35pm

re: #787 formercorpsman

That was my original reaction going by it.

790 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:55pm

re: #773 Charles

Don't forget to send hate mail after the dramatic exit.

And then watch everything I post, and go to other blogs and trash me, then use different email addresses to register sock puppets, over and over.

Shhhh!

You're almost letting on about the implants and the GPS tracking we do from the Denver Airport.

791 notutopia  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:27:59pm

re: #784 cronus
Nite cronus.
Time for my goodnight too.
Goodnight all.

792 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:03pm

re: #774 Gella

i had to read his book The Selfish Gene back in college, for some reason it is still not clear to me

PIYF

Fair enough, but did you understand what he is saying in the review in question?

793 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #605 jaunte

I think a sound effect for deleted posts would be cool.

OK, lacerti, pick your favorite:

1. Boing

2. Flush

3. Ka-ching!

4. D'oh

5. Whistle

794 Racer X  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:05pm

Humpf!

Charles never posts about The Lakers anymore!

Dramatic Exit.

795 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:13pm

Kids are in bed, what did I miss?

796 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:28pm

re: #783 Walter L. Newton

It was the "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!" that kind of brought home the satire.

797 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:49pm

selfish gene picture
[Link: onlyagame.typepad.com...]

798 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:28:58pm

re: #779 Charles

(Pretty sure BigPapa's being sarcastic, BTW.)

I think so. The Honco's reference I is a good sarc indicator for me.

799 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:08pm

re: #783 Walter L. Newton

Hard to tell? Sounded real to me.

that's theater!...I liked it

800 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:11pm

Am I reading this correctly?

US urges respect for democracy in Venezuela

"The United States Tuesday welcomed Venezuela's "civic" referendum lifting term limits for the president and all politicians, but urged support for democracy and tolerance in the country.
"We congratulate the civic and participatory spirit of the millions of Venezuelans who exercized their democratic right to vote," State Department spokesman Noel Clay told AFP.

Venezuelans on Sunday voted 54 percent in favor of constitutional reform sought by President Hugo Chavez to run for unlimited reelection, in his bid to consolidate his brand of socialism critics compare to Cuba's communism.

Clay said that after the vote, "it is important that elected officials now focus on governing democratically and addressing the issues of concern to the Venezuelan people."

"We encourage all sectors of Venezuelan society to respect the diversity of use (of the vote) that is the strength of a pluralistic democracy," he added.

The US reaction to Venezuela's vote comes uncharacteristically before the complete tally has been announced. The country's electoral board has issued its first, 54-46 percent vote result with only 94 percent of precincts reporting.

US-Venezuelan relations have been steadily deteriorating since Chavez first took office in 1999. In September, they took a turn for the worse after Venezuela expelled the US ambassador and the United States responded in kind."

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

801 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:19pm

re: #779 Charles

(voice of Sam Eliot) "Sarcasm. It's what's for dinner."

802 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:36pm

re: #625 TooDamNice

That is a chemical reaction. Getting all fertile when the moon shines is a little more than that I think. Could be wrong though...

Yes, you could.

803 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:41pm

re: #775 OldLineTexan

aaaccckkkk
mindwipe,mindwipe quick!

804 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:46pm

re: #779 Charles

Definitely. He's set me up a couple of times! ;-)

805 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:48pm

re: #793 Cato the Elder

The flush says what mere words can't.

806 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:29:54pm

re: #720 MandyManners

I ain't no lady. I'm a woman.

Let's Go Girl!

Youtube Video
807 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:01pm

re: #792 Dark_Falcon

PIYF

Fair enough, but did you understand what he is saying in the review in question?

that i do understand, but not selfish gene theory

808 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:01pm

re: #796 Sharmuta

It was the "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!" that kind of brought home the satire.

Even though I don't know what that means, of course I realized it was sarcasm. I was just kidding.

809 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:04pm

re: #779 Charles

(Pretty sure BigPapa's being sarcastic, BTW.)

I agree.
I saw him do that a few days ago, in the context of someone's melodramatic exit-by-Stinky.

810 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:07pm

re: #795 jcm

Kids are in bed, what did I miss?

Some dramatic exits, and Papa Smurf is Hawaiian, although apparently a Britney fan.

811 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:16pm

re: #794 Racer X

Humpf!

Charles never posts about The Lakers anymore!

Dramatic Exit.

he's hatin on the Cowboys AGAIN!

812 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:32pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Something to look forward to out of this Congress and President?

/

813 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:37pm

re: #795 jcm

Kids are in bed, what did I miss?

About 4 more meltdowns.

814 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:39pm

re: #776 unclassifiable

Sometimes it's best to just let it all go for a moment.

Youtube Video
815 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:30:50pm

re: #797 Gella

That #$@% link totally messed up my browser!

816 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Am I reading this correctly?

US urges respect for democracy in Venezuela

"The United States Tuesday welcomed Venezuela's "civic" referendum lifting term limits for the president and all politicians, but urged support for democracy and tolerance in the country.
"We congratulate the civic and participatory spirit of the millions of Venezuelans who exercized their democratic right to vote," State Department spokesman Noel Clay told AFP.

Venezuelans on Sunday voted 54 percent in favor of constitutional reform sought by President Hugo Chavez to run for unlimited reelection, in his bid to consolidate his brand of socialism critics compare to Cuba's communism.

Clay said that after the vote, "it is important that elected officials now focus on governing democratically and addressing the issues of concern to the Venezuelan people."

"We encourage all sectors of Venezuelan society to respect the diversity of use (of the vote) that is the strength of a pluralistic democracy," he added.

The US reaction to Venezuela's vote comes uncharacteristically before the complete tally has been announced. The country's electoral board has issued its first, 54-46 percent vote result with only 94 percent of precincts reporting.

US-Venezuelan relations have been steadily deteriorating since Chavez first took office in 1999. In September, they took a turn for the worse after Venezuela expelled the US ambassador and the United States responded in kind."

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Yeah, you're reading it correctly.
It was a disgraceful State Department briefing this afternoon:

[Link: www.state.gov...]

817 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Yes, in 2009 sadly.

818 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:08pm
819 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:21pm

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

Leave Britney Alone!

Youtube Video
820 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:22pm

re: #810 OldLineTexan

Some dramatic exits, and Papa Smurf is Hawaiian, although apparently a Britney fan.

Typical night!

821 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:26pm

re: #775 OldLineTexan

Obama could not possibly have anything left to "contribute" to a blue dress after all these months of the MSM on their knees in front of him.

Now that's damn funny!
ding

822 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:28pm

re: #796 Sharmuta

It was the "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!" that kind of brought home the satire.

How much a year do you think Brittany saves on underwear?

823 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:29pm

re: #814 MandyManners

Why did you want me to spin in place? I'm still trying to figure that comment out.

824 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:29pm
825 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:41pm

re: #819 Sharmuta

Leave Britney Alone!


[Video]

nice snag....

826 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:31:52pm

re: #753 jorline

What's with all of the people with LGF accounts from 2004 thur 2006 going postal? Most of them have fewer than 50 comment.
What's drawing them out of the woodwork? I can understand newbies and trolls getting in and self destructing early...weird.

These evolution threads are like the Biore Deep Cleansing Pore Strips for blogs.

827 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:32:02pm

re: #787 formercorpsman

Charles, I just deleted a post to that effect.

How can you DELETE any post?

828 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:32:25pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

QUESTION: Do you have reaction to the result of the referendum, the fact that Chavez has won and now he can stay in power almost indefinitely?


MR. DUGUID: Well, it’s my understanding that the referendum took place in a fully democratic process, that there were – although there were some troubling reports of intimidation of opponents, for the most part, this was a process that was fully consistent with democratic practice. However, democratic practice also requires that the government govern well and govern in the interest of all of the people of the diverse interests that are present in Venezuela.


QUESTION: But what about the result of the --


MR. DUGUID: It was a matter for the Venezuelan people. And as I said, the process was held consistent with democratic principles. Therefore, we have always sought to have a positive relationship with Venezuela. We will continue to seek to maintain a positive relationship with Venezuela. But their democratic processes need to be taken into account on our part. But also on our part, we look for governments who have achieved a positive democratic result to use that in a positive manner.


QUESTION: Do you think it’s healthy to be able to be reelected indefinitely?


MR. DUGUID: I don’t have an opinion on the democratic practices of Venezuela. In the United States, we have term limits, but that’s our practice.

829 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:08pm

re: #793 Cato the Elder

OK, lacerti, pick your favorite:

1. Boing

2. Flush

3. Ka-ching!

4. D'oh

5. Whistle

In MSG during Ranger games there is the sound of a large door slamming shut after the opposition team gets a penalty.

830 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:08pm

re: #793 Cato the Elder

OK, lacerti, pick your favorite:

1. Boing

2. Flush

3. Ka-ching!

4. D'oh

5. Whistle

I vote for number 2, 7 times. Hey, I'm from Chicago, what do you expect?

831 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:13pm

re: #640 Mich-again

Uhhh. No. If an outcome depends on a random event then its a random outcome.

No, if an outcome depends upon a nonrandom selection between random events, it is a semi-random, and semi-nonrandom, outcome.

But my point is that Dawkins should explain himself a little better when he throws around the "random" word. He pretty much ridiculed the notion that evolution happened "by chance", or randomly. But the prevailing knowledge says that genetic mutations (that are the driving force behind evolution) are random occurrences.

But the environment that selects between them nonrandomly guides. It's like tossing marbles of all different colors on a floor, and picking them up while wearing glasses that only allow you to see marbles of certain colors.

832 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:13pm

re: #823 Walter L. Newton

Why did you want me to spin in place? I'm still trying to figure that comment out.

Maybe it was sit and spin. ;)

833 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:14pm

re: #795 jcm

Kids are in bed, what did I miss?

We have decided that Charles should put up an audio for comment deletions -- and have decided that it should be a toilet flush.

You were also assigned the task of making him get a handle on it.

834 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:26pm

re: #814 MandyManners

Ahhhhhh!

Audio lithium:)

835 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:28pm

re: #824 zerodamage

Please. This is just ridiculous.

Count the posts on the front page, and count how many are related to evolution.

Then come back and try to tell me it's "50% evolution."

836 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:30pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

I saw that earlier and with the article title and the structure in the first couple of paragraphs I get the impression the US State Dept. is praising Hugo for getting a referendum passed that effectively makes him President for Life, yet wants the man to still respect Democracy.

Bizarroworld!

837 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:33:58pm

re: #826 CyanSnowHawk

These evolution threads are like the Biore Deep Cleansing Pore Strips for blogs.

Those things are FUN in a gross, satisfying way.

838 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:34:03pm

re: #810 OldLineTexan

Some dramatic exits, and Papa Smurf is Hawaiian, although apparently a Britney fan.

My Papa's Hawaiian?

839 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:34:36pm

re: #827 MandyManners

I was typing a response, that I thought it was satire.

Instead of clicking the "post this comment" button, I deleted what I wrote.

840 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:34:40pm

re: #819 Sharmuta

Leave Britney Alone!

Ok, I couldn't make it through that. No comment.

841 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:34:44pm

re: #795 jcm

Kids are in bed, what did I miss?

BigPapa has a crush on Brittney...#753

842 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:35:19pm

re: #824 zerodamage

BYE bye

843 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:35:35pm

re: #840 Walter L. Newton

I had to turn it off because I started laughing with beverage in my mouth. I forgot how pathetically hilarious that video is.

844 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:35:36pm

re: #793 Cato the Elder

Very good, but I'm thinking a "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" would be a good choice, in light of the tone of recent, uh, flamouts.

845 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:36:03pm

re: #824 zerodamage

Quitcherbichin

846 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:36:15pm

re: #838 Sharmuta

My Papa's Hawaiian?

Ain't you a lucky lil' Smurf?

847 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:36:32pm

re: #822 HoosierHoops

How much a year do you think Brittany saves on underwear?

Not as much lately. She hasn't done anything crazy in a good, long while. That is something I'm quite glad to see. I much prefer seeing a new Brittany Spear music video to a new Brittany Spears meltdown. Meltdowns where a troll gets banned: funny. Meltdowns where someone's life falls apart: not funny.

848 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:36:38pm
849 irongrampa  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:36:52pm

Time for the old folk. Goodnight, good people-as always, it's been a pleasure.

850 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:37:03pm

Are we having fun yet?

851 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:37:30pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

I yam :)

852 Syrah  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:37:38pm

Well, its time to say goodnight friends. It has been a pleasure to spend the evening with you all.

I am afraid that the Gin (djin?) has finally won out this evening and I must head off to bed where a little reading from Mickey Spillane and a long night's sleep will make everything right in the world for me, or at least, right enough to face another day.

Play nice.

Good night.

853 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:10pm

re: #842 Walter L. Newton

BYE bye

I think that Zerodamage has a account death wish. He must want to get banned, mouthing off like he is.

854 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:34pm

re: #654 HoosierHoops

Wasn't that where Zappa was raised? Somebody told me that once

I dunno, maybe. Who's Zappa?

/ducks and runs

855 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:37pm

re: #843 Sharmuta

I had to turn it off because I started laughing with beverage in my mouth. I forgot how pathetically hilarious that video is.

It wasn't funny to me. You wouldn't want to be with in a mile of me if I had met that "women" in person and she started that. You think I get mouthy here.

856 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:40pm

re: #838 Sharmuta

Kona baby! Tan lines on my slippah clad feets!

857 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:45pm

re: #734 Sharmuta

Well- like sometimes when I upding a comment, I'm sitting on my end here actually saying, "Ding!". But other times it might be, "Fuckin,' right on!" or "WTF's with that fascist lovin' comment?!" or "Buzzzzzzz, WRONG!"

It varies.

I understand. I'm a little more quiet. I usually up-ding when a comment causes me to smile. kinda hard to have a sound effect/affect for smiling.

858 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:38:51pm

re: #824 zerodamage

"... and less of this." ... ... and then you quote my #743.

What do you mean?
Fewer posts like my #743?
Was I offensive?
I was agreeing with you.

859 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:03pm

re: #826 CyanSnowHawk

These evolution threads are like the Biore Deep Cleansing Pore Strips for blogs.

and more...look at the Mission Statement thread meltdown.

860 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:21pm

As predicted, like clockwork, Chrysler and GM are begging for another bailout.

Chrysler asks govt for $5 billion more in loans

Chrysler LLC on Tuesday told the U.S. government it needs even more taxpayer money to survive. General Motors is expected to do the same. Acknowledging that industry conditions are worse than expected when it made the case in December for a government bailout, Chrysler requested an additional $5 billion in government loans. It originally said it would need $3 billion more. The company had previously received $4 billion from the Treasury Department.

GM needs up to $30 billion in aid to avoid failure

General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM - News) said on Tuesday it could need a total of up to $30 billion in U.S. government aid -- more than doubling its original aid -- and would run out of cash as soon as March without new federal funding.

The request for additional aid from the top U.S. automaker came in a restructuring plan GM submitted to U.S. officials on Tuesday.

The GM restructuring plan of more than 100 pages was posted on the U.S. Treasury Web site

See also:
Chrysler Restructuring Plan for Long-Term Viability
General Motors Corporation 2009 – 2014 Restructuring Plan

Chrysler has already received $4 billion and is now asking for an additional $5 billion after originally estimating that they would need $3 billion. GM has already received $13.4 billion and is now asking for an additional $30 billion after originally estimating that they would need $18 billion.

Will Obama stop the craziness? Hell no, GiddyUp!

Obama to appoint panel for auto recovery

It will take more than one "car czar" to help get the embattled U.S. auto industry back on track, President Barack Obama has decided.

Instead, his administration is establishing a presidential task force to direct the restructuring of General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, a senior administration official said Sunday night.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers will oversee the across-the-government panel, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because no announcement has been made.

/so, assume the position and prepare to bend over again for the Detroit Duo and the UAW!

861 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:22pm

re: #797 Gella

That $#!@ link totally messed up my browser.

Why, I oughta...

862 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:24pm

Is there something unclear about this?

I'm going to delete comments that whine about the evolution threads. It's obnoxious and offensive.

If you don't like it, start your own blog, then I'll come over there and tell you what you should and shouldn't post about.

863 Rich H  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:27pm

re: #582 TooDamNice

Climate change is the Intelligent Design of the Left. Both are dogmas.

This underscores why it is so important to educate our citizens on on the way to distinguish between good science and bad.

864 unclassifiable  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:44pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

Sure!

Who do you want to piss off next?

865 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

Could you wait a least a few minutes before you dump them. I haven't had a chance to try out some new curses I learned today.

866 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:39:54pm

Israeli scientists rock
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

867 MJ  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:40:03pm

February 17, 2009 New York Times’ Share Price Less Than Sunday Newspaper Price

Shares of NYT (NYT) dropped 29 cents today to close at $3.77. The Sunday paper goes for $4 at the newsstand.

[Link: www.crossingwallstreet.com...]

868 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:40:37pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

oh hell yeah.
although I think stinky is gonna hafta go out to the woodshed and carve himself a new whackin stick cause he's flat wore out the first one

869 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:40:53pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

Yup..Charles..ok..not tonight..but on your next music thread will you answer my questions about fusion and guitarists? And i still want you to answer if you were stuck on an Island..what one CD would you take?
/just for fun bro

870 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:41:20pm

re: #867 MJ

February 17, 2009 New York Times’ Share Price Less Than Sunday Newspaper Price

Shares of NYT (NYT) dropped 29 cents today to close at $3.77. The Sunday paper goes for $4 at the newsstand.

[Link: www.crossingwallstreet.com...]

They ask $4 for that rag?

Totally overpriced...by about $4.

871 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #823 Walter L. Newton

Why did you want me to spin in place? I'm still trying to figure that comment out.

Dude, she wants to spin you right round, baby, right round, like a record...

872 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:42:20pm

OT: What do lizards think about 24 and the new season so far?

873 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:42:36pm

re: #861 Cato the Elder

That $#!@ link totally messed up my browser.

Why, I oughta...

hey my FF with tons of add-ons are doing great :)

874 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:42:45pm

re: #853 Dark_Falcon

I think that Zerodamage has a account death wish. He must want to get banned, mouthing off like he is.

Suicide by Stinky has become a popular participant sport lately.

875 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:43:25pm

re: #872 traderjoe9

OT: What do lizards think about 24 and the new season so far?

I don't think it is a good as LOST.

876 rain of lead  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:43:41pm

re: #872 traderjoe9

so far I'm liking it

877 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:03pm

re: #850 Charles

Are we having fun yet?

Wheeee!

878 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:15pm

re: #860 Killian Bundy

I'm not really in the market for a car company right now.......

879 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:18pm

re: #871 Throbert McGee

Dude, she wants to spin you right round, baby, right round, like a record...

Like this?

Youtube Video
880 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:24pm

re: #874 FurryOldGuyJeans

Suicide by Stinky has become a popular participant sport lately.

it's a fad...lemmings...who knows what they talk about over their latte in the morning...Charles is being used imo

881 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:45pm

Before zerodamage makes a success of his efforts here tonight, I WOULD like to know what he found so offensive about my reply.

882 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:51pm

Niel Cavuto was talking on O'Reilly about Obama truning the US into Sweden.

Now this on Drudge.

883 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:52pm

re: #875 Walter L. Newton

I don't think it is a good as LOST.

Oh, no argument there. LOST is my favorite show currently on.

884 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:54pm

Note: the ONLY ones who ever whine about the evolution threads are people who have a problem with accepting the science of evolution.

All this whining does is solidify my opinion that the Republican Party has a GIGANTIC problem with this anti-scientific mindset.

885 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:44:58pm

re: #750 formercorpsman

Empirical science isn't a belief system; it's what can be known in the basis of scientific evidence. Your attempt at equivocation is noted and rejected, with good and sufficient cause.


Salamantis, I think his post had some merit.

You rightfully note science not having a belief component. But to simply dismiss his argument is not true.

Tarheel has made a comparison, as the philosophical extremes in which the purveyors of either side of the coin can be obnoxious, and place their boot upon the neck of society. He was not making the argument of a belief system per se.

Millions of dead Orthodox peasantry might take exception to this.

The Illusion of Design
By Richard Dawkins
[Link: www.naturalhistorymag.com...]

Some have said that Hitler founded his political philosophy on Darwinism. This is nonsense: doctrines of racial superiority in no way follow from natural selection, properly understood. Nevertheless, a good case can be made that a society run on Darwinian lines would be a very disagreeable society in which to live. But, yet again, the unpleasantness of a proposition has no bearing on its truth.

Huxley, George C. Williams, and other evolutionists have opposed Darwinism as a political and moral doctrine just as passionately as they have advocated its scientific truth. I count myself in that company. Science needs to understand natural selection as a force in nature, the better to oppose it as a normative force in politics. Darwin himself expressed dismay at the callousness of natural selection: “What a book a Devil’s Chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low & horridly cruel works of nature!”

886 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:02pm

re: #878 jcm

I'm not really in the market for a car company right now.......

You'll really thank yourself later for getting the undercoat...

887 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:20pm

re: #875 Walter L. Newton

New episode tomorrow?

888 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:37pm

Can't do non-fiction. I'm a junkie for The First 48, NGC, HC, et al.

889 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:39pm

re: #875 Walter L. Newton

I don't think it is a good as LOST.

LOL ...when I first read his post ...I thought ... Walter will say it is not at good as LOST ...you are the best fan ever ...and I have never even watched the show ...

890 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:45pm

re: #875 Walter L. Newton

I don't think it is a good as LOST.

why...if i had a choice which show would I take to a desert island with me?

891 hazzyday  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #487 Afrocity

Okay, this is bad but I think he is sexy. I like nice guys. I find that attractive. He seems like a kind hearted man. I admire his charity work.

He would chase you around the newsdesk.

892 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:45:59pm

re: #872 traderjoe9

OT: What do lizards think about 24 and the new season so far?

I'm liking it. The storyline is good, and it does well in asking the question: "How far is too far when fighting evil?" No other show has been brave enough to really ask this question, my hat is off to 24 for asking it.

893 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:46:01pm

re: #877 Killgore Trout

Wheeee!

I posted this LAST NIGHT, I guess just before you passed out. For you information.

Here is your first reminder. LOST, Wed. night. By the way, I just finished "Foucault's Pendulum" yesterday (recommended reading by Jim Powell for this season of lost), and I can see many ways in which the show uses intertexual references to this book.

And of course, you've seen the pendulum device that Ms. Hawking is using to find a "window" to the islands location. If interested, google the Navel of the Earth. This all also has something to do with a "hollow earth" theory, which is something I thought may be part of the plot since day one.

Another book Powell recommended for this season is "A Briefer History of Time" which I will start next.

894 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #886 jaunte

You'll really thank yourself later for getting the undercoat...

HAH! This is Seattle... we don't use salt, it might pollute the... SALT WATER!

895 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:46:33pm

re: #873 Gella

hey my FF with tons of add-ons are doing great :)

I'm using the Fox too.

Clicking that link resized my main window to about 4" x 3", opened a new one, and subjected me to two popunders.

Not. Cool.

You may be cool, but those links aren't...

896 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:46:46pm

You're bloody-well right.
qqqq

897 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:46:47pm

re: #881 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Before zerodamage makes a success of his efforts here tonight, I WOULD like to know what he found so offensive about my reply.

Let me guess, facts and logic, right?

898 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:47:20pm

re: #895 Cato the Elder

I'm using the Fox too.

Clicking that link resized my main window to about 4" x 3", opened a new one, and subjected me to two popunders.

Not. Cool.

You may be cool, but those links aren't...

sorry about it, but i didn't have this issue

899 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:47:28pm

re: #802 Cato the Elder

Yes, you could.

Moon Shine makes us fertile? I thought it just rotted the liver.

900 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:47:52pm

re: #892 Dark_Falcon

I'm liking it. The storyline is good, and it does well in asking the question: "How far is too far when fighting evil?" No other show has been brave enough to really ask this question, my hat is off to 24 for asking it.

Yup. 24 has always garnered attention for its torture scenes. And I love how Bauer never backs down in his beliefs.

901 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:47:53pm

In all seriousness I do miss the fact that the ID shills rarely try to debate evolution anymore. Last year it seems they at least "tried" with arguments about retroviral DNA, irreducible complexity and things like that. Because their arguments were exposed as DI talking points (and because they lost quite badly) they stopped trying and now just try to get Charles to stop posting about it.

902 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:48:34pm

re: #884 Charles

Usually predicated with "I'm a (x), I believe in God, you're ramming evolution, etc"
"all these evolution threads"
"this place has turned into a (x)"

Flush!
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

903 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:48:35pm

re: #872 traderjoe9

OT: What do lizards think about 24 and the new season so far?

Flashback to seasons 1, 2 and 3...my whole family is enjoying it.

The 2007 season was the poster boy for the PC world.

904 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:48:38pm
905 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:48:54pm

re: #893 Walter L. Newton


Another book Powell recommended for this season is "A Briefer History of Time" which I will start next.


You'll love it. I read it about 10 years ago and was so thrilled that I could understand relativity and particle physics that I read nothing but science and quantum mechanics books for 3-4 years.

906 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:01pm

re: #901 Bloodnok

There's one out there who's still trying to find some ID peer-reviewed papers for us.
/

907 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:12pm

How They Make It is as good as lost any day....Charlies Angels is a very close second imo

908 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:28pm

re: #893 Walter L. Newton

I posted this LAST NIGHT, I guess just before you passed out. For you information.

Here is your first reminder. LOST, Wed. night. By the way, I just finished "Foucault's Pendulum" yesterday (recommended reading by Jim Powell for this season of lost), and I can see many ways in which the show uses intertexual references to this book.

And of course, you've seen the pendulum device that Ms. Hawking is using to find a "window" to the islands location. If interested, google the Navel of the Earth. This all also has something to do with a "hollow earth" theory, which is something I thought may be part of the plot since day one.

Another book Powell recommended for this season is "A Briefer History of Time" which I will start next.


Hawking's book? Isn't it Ironic..The most brilliant man of our time lay paralyzed in a wheelchair and can't even talk? Tragic story..

909 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:41pm

re: #896 MandyManners

You're bloody-well right.
qqqq

910 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:41pm

re: #904 zerodamage

Buh-bye

911 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:41pm

re: #896 MandyManners

You're bloody-well right.
qqqq

I AM STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU MEANT BY TELLING ME TO SPIN IN PLACE.

I'm not mad, I just don't understand the reference and I was curious as to what it means. After you tell me...

I MAY BE MAD :)

912 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:49:43pm

re: #904 zerodamage

Counting posts does not equal counting articles. Bye.

913 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:05pm

re: #897 jcm

Let me guess, facts and logic, right?

Or the fact that I agree with him, when that might not have been what he wanted people here to do.

He said ... he was Christian and believed in evolution, then asked if he was a pariah because of that.

I said, in essence, no, because I am, and do, too.

That seemed to piss him off. I think he wants martyrdom.

914 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:17pm

re: #896 MandyManners

You're bloody-well right.
qqqq

Great one, thanks!

915 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:18pm
916 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:19pm

#904: your account is blocked and your dramatic farewell rant is deleted.

917 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:25pm
918 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:35pm

OT, but what the hell?

If you go to the links that automatically scroll down on the lefthand side and select the 'Terrorism' category, more than half the articles are about a leading opposition official in Zimbabwe being charged with terrorism by Mugabe's ruling party.

I thought the threshold for terrorism related new links would be set a little higher.

919 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:38pm

re: #904 zerodamage

If yer gonna go ... close the door on the way out !

And wipe your feet !

920 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:49pm

re: #892 Dark_Falcon

I'm liking it. The storyline is good, and it does well in asking the question: "How far is too far when fighting evil?" No other show has been brave enough to really ask this question, my hat is off to 24 for asking it.

I'm waiting for Jack to waterboard a terrorist.

921 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:50:52pm

As if I couldn't see that coming.

922 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:06pm

re: #915 Killian Bundy

That's what they all say.

/15 minutes later . . .

/nevermind

923 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:11pm

re: #893 Walter L. Newton

Do you have any theories as to how LOST will end? They have one more season after this season...

I think that the show will end, as the absolutely final scene - the first scene of the show from season one. All the characters will be stuck in this cycle forever.

924 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:18pm

re: #906 jaunte

There's one out there who's still trying to find some ID peer-reviewed papers for us.
/

Wasn't he the guy that claimed to have written the peer reviewed papers? He was a treat.

925 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:24pm

I'm also eager to watch the rerun of last week's Lost with the added subtitles. I was distracted last week an it was a good episode. I'm sure I missed a lot of cool stuff.

926 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:28pm

Well, goodbye little martyrdom seeker.

927 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:35pm

re: #749 Syrah

So I will finally be a blond? From a rust red to blond all within The Ones first one hundred days!

A miracle!

How like unto a god he is!

Turning a red-head into a blond? That is not the work of a god, that is the work of a demon!

928 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:43pm

re: #901 Bloodnok

In all seriousness I do miss the fact that the ID shills rarely try to debate evolution anymore. Last year it seems they at least "tried" with arguments about retroviral DNA, irreducible complexity and things like that. Because their arguments were exposed as DI talking points (and because they lost quite badly) they stopped trying and now just try to get Charles to stop posting about it.

Because evidence is demanded, and when they don't have any, that limits their options. Therefore, the pressure is put on dropping it so other people don't figure out what a sham ID is.

929 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:50pm

re: #905 Killgore Trout

You'll love it. I read it about 10 years ago and was so thrilled that I could understand relativity and particle physics that I read nothing but science and quantum mechanics books for 3-4 years.

You could not have read "A Briefer History of Time" 10 years ago, it was published 2005.

930 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:51:51pm

re: #920 jorline

I'm waiting for Jack to waterboard a terrorist.

can't wait for that

931 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:15pm

re: #925 Killgore Trout

I'm also eager to watch the rerun of last week's Lost with the added subtitles. I was distracted last week an it was a good episode. I'm sure I missed a lot of cool stuff.

Killgore ..I don't watch the show but what is the point of the added subtitles? ..just wondering ..

932 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:15pm

re: #898 Gella

sorry about it, but i didn't have this issue

ego te absolvo in nomine lacerti, et populi, et spiritus mundi

;^)

933 albusteve  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #923 traderjoe9

Do you have any theories as to how LOST will end? They have one more season after this season...

I think that the show will end, as the absolutely final scene - the first scene of the show from season one. All the characters will be stuck in this cycle forever.

so will the viewers!...that's the POINT....heeeehaaaa...
sorry

934 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #924 Bloodnok

He's a scientist in a secret field.

935 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:32pm

re: #900 traderjoe9

Yup. 24 has always garnered attention for its torture scenes. And I love how Bauer never backs down in his beliefs.

That's what love too. Most shows that try to talk about drawing the line end up retreating into platitudes about standards and morality. 24 actually lets a case for extreme measures be made.

936 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:52:47pm

re: #921 Charles

As if I couldn't see that coming.

Pretty much telegraphed from about what, 200-300 posts ago.

937 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:53:35pm

re: #932 Cato the Elder

ego te absolvo in nomine lacerti, et populi, et spiritus mundi

;^)

Damn you .. I cant seem to find a Latin to English translator on Google !

Or Olmec or Tartar !

938 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:53:50pm

re: #921 Charles

As if I couldn't see that coming.

Yep, it was pretty obvious. Another lemming over the cliff.

939 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:54:04pm

re: #929 Walter L. Newton

Brief history of time

A Brief History of Time is a popular science book written by Stephen W. Hawking and first published by the Bantam Dell Publishing Group in 1988. It became a best-seller and has sold more than 9 million copies. It was also on the London Sunday Times best-seller list for more than four years.[1]

There is also a documentary by the same name, directed by Errol Morris and released in 1991.

You must bee looking at subsequent editions.

940 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:54:16pm
941 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:54:52pm

re: #885 Salamantis

Just so you understand, I did not make any reference / inference to Hitler / Nazi, etc.

The original post by Tarheel, and the point trying to be made, is despite the truths of science, or beliefs of religious adherents, both have equally damned societies before.

You note oppositional evolutionist, and that is good. There are many though, with similar zeal akin to the Robertson's or Swaggerts, who wear their contempt on their sleeve.

Moreover, living history has shown this via the Young Pioneer Organization, etc.

It is defiantly a knife which cuts both ways.

942 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:09pm

re: #893 Walter L. Newton

I posted this LAST NIGHT, I guess just before you passed out. For you information.

Here is your first reminder. LOST, Wed. night. By the way, I just finished "Foucault's Pendulum" yesterday (recommended reading by Jim Powell for this season of lost), and I can see many ways in which the show uses intertexual references to this book.

And of course, you've seen the pendulum device that Ms. Hawking is using to find a "window" to the islands location. If interested, google the Navel of the Earth. This all also has something to do with a "hollow earth" theory, which is something I thought may be part of the plot since day one.

Another book Powell recommended for this season is "A Briefer History of Time" which I will start next.

What did you think of Ecco's book, Walter? IIRC, we discussed a bit when you started reading it.

943 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:21pm

re: #910 Killgore Trout

Buh-bye

beaten.

944 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:26pm

re: #940 spacejesus

Oops, don't quote lest you join the self destructed.

945 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:29pm

re: #939 Killgore Trout

Brief history of time

You must bee looking at subsequent editions.

Thats the book that convinced me that Hawking was a genius. Sure I'd read some of his stuff before .. but it didnt come across as convincing.

He's a genius.

946 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:32pm

re: #931 JacksonTn

Killgore ..I don't watch the show but what is the point of the added subtitles? ..just wondering ..

It's a complicated show involving time travel and characters appear in different scenes in different times. It's easy to miss a lot of what goes on if you aren't an expert on the show.

947 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:46pm

If you quote offensive comments that will probably end up deleted, your comment will be deleted too.

Use the 'reply' button instead if you think it's going to be zapped.

948 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:55:54pm

re: #942 ggt

Sorry, Walter L.

/:0, :)

949 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:56:05pm

re: #923 traderjoe9

Do you have any theories as to how LOST will end? They have one more season after this season...

I think that the show will end, as the absolutely final scene - the first scene of the show from season one. All the characters will be stuck in this cycle forever.

I have no idea. But, no, the producers have promised from day one that they have the basic plot arcs written and they are not making this up as they go along.

And, if you noticed this season, there is no way they could be "fitting" these NEW episodes into the story line if they didn't plan them to fit a long time ago.

950 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:56:25pm

re: #928 Sharmuta

Because evidence is demanded, and when they don't have any, that limits their options. Therefore, the pressure is put on dropping it so other people don't figure out what a sham ID is.

And to debate occasionally requires that they actually click one of the links presented to them.

951 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:56:39pm

re: #937 Buster Bunny

Damn you .. I cant seem to find a Latin to English translator on Google !

Or Olmec or Tartar !

[Link: www.translation-guide.com...]

952 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:56:39pm

re: #946 Killgore Trout

It's a complicated show involving time travel and characters appear in different scenes in different times. It's easy to miss a lot of what goes on if you aren't an expert on the show.

When do they feature subtitles for past shows?

953 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:56:55pm

re: #945 Buster Bunny

His real genius is that he can dumb things down for normal people to understand. There aren't many people who can do that.

954 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:57:03pm

re: #934 jaunte

He's a scientist in a secret field.

And he does science. In a science place.

955 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:57:03pm

re: #950 Bloodnok

And to debate occasionally requires that they actually click one of the links presented to them.

But that burns us, Precious!

956 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:57:43pm

re: #939 Killgore Trout

Brief history of time

You must bee looking at subsequent editions.

Killgore, read careful, the book that was recommended was "A BRIEFER history of time." It is a new, condensed, simpler and better laid out edition of the book

957 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:58:05pm

SpaceJesus: You continue to amaze me...*shakes head*
/I'll admit..The Nic is perfect..seriously..frigging perfect....

958 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:58:18pm

re: #932 Cato the Elder

Is has been a dum utpote ego seen quisquam in Latin

959 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:58:26pm

re: #952 traderjoe9

They started it this season. The time slot before the new episode is a rerun of the previous week with subtitles explaining what's going on. It's a very cool feature.

960 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:58:44pm

I am particularly offended -- personally -- by these asses who waltz in and use their Christianity as if it makes them better than the rest of us in the room.

961 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:58:46pm

re: #951 Gella

[Link: www.translation-guide.com...]

Ooh goody. Now I can baffle my Latin teacher without ever having studied the stuff !

Cogito ?

962 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:59:42pm

re: #929 Walter L. Newton

You could not have read "A Briefer History of Time" 10 years ago, it was published 2005.

That likely would have been "A Brief History of Time." I read that one quite some time ago. Still have it around somewhere.

963 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:00:11pm

re: #956 Walter L. Newton

re: #956 Walter L. Newton

Killgore, read careful, the book that was recommended was "A BRIEFER history of time." It is a new, condensed, simpler and better laid out edition of the book


Ah, I didn't catch that. I might pick it up when I get a chance. The original book was pretty concise, I couldn't imagine it much more condensed.

964 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:00:17pm

re: #949 Walter L. Newton

I have no idea. But, no, the producers have promised from day one that they have the basic plot arcs written and they are not making this up as they go along.

And, if you noticed this season, there is no way they could be "fitting" these NEW episodes into the story line if they didn't plan them to fit a long time ago.

I know...they already know how the show is going to end. They also promised that it won't be anything inconclusive like The Sopranos.

But I also don't think that the show will end with everybody off the island and living happily ever after...

965 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:00:47pm

re: #941 formercorpsman

Just so you understand, I did not make any reference / inference to Hitler / Nazi, etc.

The original post by Tarheel, and the point trying to be made, is despite the truths of science, or beliefs of religious adherents, both have equally damned societies before.

You note oppositional evolutionist, and that is good. There are many though, with similar zeal akin to the Robertson's or Swaggerts, who wear their contempt on their sleeve.

Moreover, living history has shown this via the Young Pioneer Organization, etc.

It is defiantly a knife which cuts both ways.

Science is a method, and its results are theories, with practical applications known as technologies. These are all value-neutral. It is the uses to which humans put them that can be described as good or evil.

Arguing otherwise is like maintaining that guns kill people, in a vacuum, rather than people wielding them.

966 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:01:01pm

re: #959 Killgore Trout

They started it this season. The time slot before the new episode is a rerun of the previous week with subtitles explaining what's going on. It's a very cool feature.

Awesome! I'll check it out tomorrow. Thanks.

967 jaunte  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:01:05pm

re: #954 Salamantis

And he does science. In a science place.

The scienceness of his suppositions render stark dismayed the opposition.

968 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #952 traderjoe9

When do they feature subtitles for past shows?

When they replay last weeks episode BEFORE the new episode. Such as tomorrow night ABC will repeat "This Place Is Death" an hour before the new episode, and it will have some enhanced text crawlers on the bottom of the screen.

And then they will air "316" which is the title of tomorrows new episode. I imagine that "316" is a new bearing to the Island, since the Island has moved in time/space. The last bearing we had in past episodes were 315 and 315.

Or, 316 is in reference to a flight number, the flight number that the Oceanic Six will be flying to get back to the Island.

969 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:01:22pm

re: #964 traderjoe9


But I also don't think that the show will end with everybody off the island and living happily ever after...

They wont find Gilligan now .. will they?

970 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:01:52pm

re: #961 Buster Bunny

Ooh goody. Now I can baffle my Latin teacher without ever having studied the stuff !

Cogito ?

Enjoy :)
but i am not sure if its 100% correct, try to google another cite to compare :)

971 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:02:29pm

Any Blackjack players on here ? I just had the run of a lifetime on Sunday. Sat down with a $500 buy in, and betting $25 a hand. Went down to about $200, then the table turned around and I started pushing my bet to $50, then $100 a hand playing two hands once I was well into the casino's money. Once I got say $700-$800 in $25 chips I'd cash some in for a $500 chip,set it aside and play the quarters left, and repeat.
6 beers, and 5 hours later, I left with $6500. It's all about basic strategy and money management and I love it. BTW, the casino offered me a extra night in the suite, but I declined and got out of there. :)

972 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:02:31pm

re: #950 Bloodnok

And to debate occasionally requires that they actually click one of the links presented to them.

Yeah; such links might provoke cognitive dissonance.

973 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:02:46pm

re: #968 Walter L. Newton

When they replay last weeks episode BEFORE the new episode. Such as tomorrow night ABC will repeat "This Place Is Death" an hour before the new episode, and it will have some enhanced text crawlers on the bottom of the screen.

And then they will air "316" which is the title of tomorrows new episode. I imagine that "316" is a new bearing to the Island, since the Island has moved in time/space. The last bearing we had in past episodes were 315 and 315.

Or, 316 is in reference to a flight number, the flight number that the Oceanic Six will be flying to get back to the Island.

Or maybe its somehow related to "The Numbers?"

I hope the producers promised to fill us in on that mystery by the end.

974 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:03:18pm

re: #972 Salamantis

Yeah; such links might provoke cognitive dissonance.

Yes, Precious- it burns us, it does!

975 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:03:38pm

re: #957 HoosierHoops

(Shakes head) Doh!

976 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:03:38pm

re: #953 Killgore Trout

His real genius is that he can dumb things down for normal people to understand. There aren't many people who can do that.

fred harris can do that with Digital Signal Processing information. Best professor I have had the privilege of studying under.

977 itellu3times  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:04:00pm

re: #956 Walter L. Newton

Killgore, read careful, the book that was recommended was "A BRIEFER history of time." It is a new, condensed, simpler and better laid out edition of the book

It edits out the uncertainty.
/

978 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:04:36pm

Mean cruel fat stupid hobbitses can keep nasty links, Precious!

979 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:05:25pm

re: #978 Sharmuta

Mean cruel fat stupid hobbitses can keep nasty links, Precious!

Is this the one link that will unite them?

980 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:05:27pm

re: #905 Killgore Trout

You'll love it. I read it about 10 years ago and was so thrilled that I could understand relativity and particle physics that I read nothing but science and quantum mechanics books for 3-4 years.

Better then "A brief history of time."which will make your brain smoke.`

981 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:00pm

re: #973 traderjoe9

Or maybe its somehow related to "The Numbers?"

I hope the producers promised to fill us in on that mystery by the end.

I meant bearings 315 and 325. And tomorrow nights episode is called "316."

The numbers are the exponents of the Valenzetti Equation. This was revealed during an online virtual adventure between seasons 3 and 4.

See Lostpedia and look up "the numbers"

982 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:27pm

re: #975 BigPapa

(Shakes head) Doh!

Hey! never had a chance to say Hi to you..I worked at Pearl for 3 years..
Nice to have lizards from Hawai'i in the house..

983 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:32pm

re: #929 Walter L. Newton

You could not have read "A Briefer History of Time" 10 years ago, it was published 2005.

So first there was "A Brief History...", then "A Briefer History..."?

What's next? "A History of Time in Five Seconds"?

984 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:39pm

I'm calling it a night.
Everyone have a good evening.
Be careful 'round those greasy spots on the floor.

/sheesh, look at th' hole in the wall ... Stinky didn't even aim HIM toward the door!

985 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:46pm

Oh no!

Youtube Video
986 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:47pm

re: #979 Buster Bunny

Is this the one link that will unite them?

We promised to serve the Master of the Precious, we did.

987 jcm  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:06:53pm

re: #978 Sharmuta

Mean cruel fat stupid hobbitses can keep nasty links, Precious!

ROFLMAO!

988 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:07:13pm

re: #863 Rich H

Climate change is the Intelligent Design of the Left. Both are dogmas.

Not exactly. Climate change is real, it's the agenda that the leftists are trying to push citing AGW that is problematic.

989 jorline  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:08:52pm

re: #971 avanti

Any Blackjack players on here ? I just had the run of a lifetime on Sunday. Sat down with a $500 buy in, and betting $25 a hand. Went down to about $200, then the table turned around and I started pushing my bet to $50, then $100 a hand playing two hands once I was well into the casino's money. Once I got say $700-$800 in $25 chips I'd cash some in for a $500 chip,set it aside and play the quarters left, and repeat.
6 beers, and 5 hours later, I left with $6500. It's all about basic strategy and money management and I love it. BTW, the casino offered me a extra night in the suite, but I declined and got out of there. :)

Obama would have wanted you to split your profits with the dealer 50/50...what did you do? Capital gains is going to be a bitch.

990 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:09:23pm

re: #965 Salamantis


I really was not making an argument otherwise.

991 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:09:33pm

re: #982 HoosierHoops

Howzit bruddah. Fly there tomorrow for the day. Last trip over, flew right over a boomer coming in just before touchdown. Biiiiiig boat. Love to see the my tax dollars well spent (salute).

992 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:11:16pm

re: #991 BigPapa

Howzit bruddah. Fly there tomorrow for the day. Last trip over, flew right over a boomer coming in just before touchdown. Biiiiiig boat. Love to see the my tax dollars well spent (salute).

Kind regards..We'll talk stories in the future..nght lizards

993 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:12:05pm

Walter, what did you think of Foucault's Pendulum?

994 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:15:12pm

No, I've really had it. I'm really leaving this time.

A friend called wanting assistance and offering wine as payment.

Aloha, and keep your fists unclenched Lizards.

995 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:15:49pm

re: #951 Gella

[Link: www.translation-guide.com...]

LOL. That site is useless.

What I said means "I forgive you in the name of the lizard, and the people, and the spirit of the world."

That site gives "I you to swallow upon by name lizard , and the people , and breath to clean."

996 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:17:33pm

re: #970 Gella

Enjoy :)
but i am not sure if its 100% correct, try to google another cite to compare :)

Heh. See my #995.

997 avanti  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:17:44pm

re: #989 jorline

Obama would have wanted you to split your profits with the dealer 50/50...what did you do? Capital gains is going to be a bitch.

I did tip the dealer a few hundred over the evening, but I only did it because I know the pit boss will pad my comps for being a "George" and the dealer will treat you better. i.e. if I forget to double down on a 11 after too many beers, he'll pause and raise a eyebrow.
The casino prints me a won/loss statement at the end of the year and winnings are taxed as income.

998 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:19:28pm

re: #960 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I am particularly offended -- personally -- by these asses who waltz in and use their Christianity as if it makes them better than the rest of us in the room.

I am too.

999 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:20:05pm

G Note

1000 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:20:14pm

re: #978 Sharmuta

Mean cruel fat stupid hobbitses can keep nasty links, Precious!

Linksss!

Dover!

Dawkinnnnssss!

1001 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:20:35pm

dang

1002 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:21:06pm

re: #946 Killgore Trout

It's a complicated show involving time travel and characters appear in different scenes in different times. It's easy to miss a lot of what goes on if you aren't an expert on the show.

Subtitles are the default when I watch DVDs. My ears just play me false too often, and it beats rewinding three times trying to catch what they're saying...

1003 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:24:13pm

re: #932 Cato the Elder

ego te absolvo in nomine lacerti, et populi, et spiritus mundi

"In nomine lacerti" -- that's a good one for LGF!

(If you don't get it, just keep saying lacerti out loud, pronouncing the first syllable as "lasagna" and the second as in "certify.")

1004 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:24:32pm

re: #1000 Bloodnok

Linksss!

Dover!

Dawkinnnnssss!

They stole it from us, Precious! Filthy nasty thieving linking hobbitses.

1005 Gella  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:36:54pm

re: #995 Cato the Elder

LOL. That site is useless.

What I said means "I forgive you in the name of the lizard, and the people, and the spirit of the world."

That site gives "I you to swallow upon by name lizard , and the people , and breath to clean."

that was actually funny, i tried russian, gave me very bad translations lol

1006 Rich H  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:42:28pm

re: #988 Slumbering Behemoth

I distinguish Climate Science from Climate Change.

Climate Change is just like Intelligent Design in that both are non-falsifiable.

1007 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:47:55pm

re: #1006 Rich H

I get where you're coming from (I think), but it wasn't Climate Science that ended the Ice Age.

1008 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:53:24pm

I do find it interesting that creationists can't accept we came from "monkeys" (evolution) but can accept they came from dirt (the Bible). Fascinating.

1009 Rich H  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:55:28pm

re: #1007 Slumbering Behemoth

True enough. Just like it wasn't evolutionary biology that caused mammals to replace the dinosaurs.

1010 Rich H  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 10:01:21pm

re: #1009 Rich H

I could have phrased that better. Climate Science didn't cause the Ice age to end. But climate science is our understanding of how the Ice Age ended.

Biology didn't cause species to evolve. Biology is our understanding of how that happens.

1011 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 10:05:33pm

re: #1008 Sharmuta

High five!

re: #1010 Rich H

Interestingly enough, I got what you meant. Probably 'cuz I have a cold and my brain is all fuzzy.

High five!

I'm out Lizards. I feel like crap and need to crawl into bed.

Getting sick is so stupid! Why did I have to go and do that?

1012 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 10:50:01pm

re: #523 Salamantis

Looks good to me.

thanks

1013 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 10:59:04pm

OK here is a new attempt at the Troll Hammer:


How can we extricate ourselves from this incessant bickering?

I would suggest less hubris (that is to say, a strong dose of humility) and more intellectual bravery on both sides of the divide.

For the scientist, hubris often takes the form of a belief that one's intellectual abilities are always superior to those who disagree about matters of faith. The strong dose of humility would mean remembering basic scientific principles. If someone makes a claim that does not challenge the scientific method or any scientifically proven fact, it is not a threat to science. More importantly, a claim about something that can not be measured or observed is outside of the realm of science to judge. An incorporeal Creator is not, by definition, subject to experiment and therefore will always be outside of the domain of science. Hence, anything that the scientist says about the possible (non)existence of a Creator is no more or less a statement of belief than any other. When a scientist claims to have scientific reasons to discount belief in a Creator, he is only stating his own personal beliefs and not anything that has the authority and weight of science itself. To illustrate this further, some scientists might claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God, and therefore God does not exist. However, science has no tools available to disprove the existence of God. And, basic logic shows that just because one can not prove that something is there, does not mean that it is not. For some time, we could not prove the existence of electrons either.

In a similar vein, the hubris of the believer takes the form of a belief that one's personal understanding of God's Will sanctions him to discount the insights of all others should they disagree - in all contexts. The strong dose of humility for the believer would mean growing out of the belief that his understanding of God's word is somehow greater than the proven revelation of God's will in the physical universe. After all, if one believes that God created the universe, then the universe is by definition the will of God. Tradition holds that the Bible is a blueprint of all of creation. In light of this, the believer should realize that good science is an act of good faith, because it reveals the Will of God.

The alternative, that is to say, an entrenched arrogance, is no good for either, and it contradicts both of their belief systems. The scientist prides himself on his strict adherence to the scientific method. He is uncompromising in his exclusive reliance upon observation, hypothesis, and testing. Therefore, to put forward a speculative conviction about a theological matter in the name of science is more than out of character, it is a gross violation of the scientific method. Similarly, the believer, that denigrates the value of scientific inquiry is negating one of the primary tools that the Creator gave him to experience the Transcendental.

1014 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:26:56pm

re: #1013 ludwigvanquixote

This is good, but I think you need to find a way to fit in that pronouncements that religious texts make concerning the empirical world subject themselves to empirical falsification just as much as extra-empirical pronouncements made by scientists are subject to the charge of lack of evidence. The major cases in point are the contentions that 1) the universe and earth is just a few thousand years old, a contention empirically refuted the red shift coefficient of the Big Bang echo radiation and by a number of different radiometric dating methods which not only mutually corroborate, but are independently corroborated by such external sources as tree rings and ice pack cores, and that 2) that all the many millions of species were created independently and as is in the space of a few days, a contention that is not only refuted by the differential ages of and species in the fossil record, but also by comparative studies of DNA in general, and artifactual retroviral DNA in particular, that demonstrate beyond rational statistical doubt that terrestrial organisms share ancient common ancestry.

That is, unless they're willing to postulate a duplicitous deity that would deceive humanity and inscribe falsehoods in the Book of Nature by salting both soil and genes with false evidence.

1015 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:41:33pm

re: #1014 Salamantis

I have many pages of material dedicated to that in rest of the main body. I simply do not know how to lay out the argument completely and convincingly in a series of bullet points that would not instantly be ignored. By writing in this style, I was hoping to make the key point that there is room to be a perfectly good believer and still accept scientific truths. Perhaps it is naive of me to think that some might be given pause to go "hmmmm" but if they are already that shut minded all of the science in the world will only anger them and shut their eyes anyway.

I assure you that I go into great detail about the notion of God being a liar if you take too a literal view of certain things. I go into the key points of evolution in yet another section of the main body.

1016 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:10:29am

re: #1015 ludwigvanquixote

I have many pages of material dedicated to that in rest of the main body. I simply do not know how to lay out the argument completely and convincingly in a series of bullet points that would not instantly be ignored. By writing in this style, I was hoping to make the key point that there is room to be a perfectly good believer and still accept scientific truths. Perhaps it is naive of me to think that some might be given pause to go "hmmmm" but if they are already that shut minded all of the science in the world will only anger them and shut their eyes anyway.

I assure you that I go into great detail about the notion of God being a liar if you take too a literal view of certain things. I go into the key points of evolution in yet another section of the main body.

As far as a FAQ goes, if they ignore what's in it, that's THEIR problem; but if we don't even put certain pivotal points and link references in there to be either accepted or ignored by them, the problem is OURS. The trick is to do it in a way that is just a page or three long, rather than book length. It may be quite difficult to do, but I don't consider it to be necessarily impossible.

1017 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:22:24am

re: #1016 Salamantis

As far as a FAQ goes, if they ignore what's in it, that's THEIR problem; but if we don't even put certain pivotal points and link references in there to be either accepted or ignored by them, the problem is OURS. The trick is to do it in a way that is just a page or three long, rather than book length. It may be quite difficult to do, but I don't consider it to be necessarily impossible.

Right I am on it. I appreciate your feedback. Truly I do.

Give me a day or two then. I have been giving some thought for how to do it. If I have two pages, I think I can.

1018 fat.elvis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:52:30am

My 67 year old mother was raised a Southern Baptist and has attended a Southern Baptist church (in Georgia and Florida!) almost all of her life. And she gets highly irritated by these Cretinists...

Of course he also went to art school in the 60s and her dad was a quasi-socialist Minnesotan Norwegian Democrat architect. (But I think he misunderstood, because the midwest Scandis were always small community Socialists which is just called community in my book, it's not the DC-down ponzi-weakness-thing which makes me feel sick to my stomach.)

Me, I'm with her and my dad and Charles and just wish these bullies would stop being so insecure with their faith.

1019 fat.elvis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:53:15am

"of course She" PIMF

1020 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:59:28am

re: #1017 LudwigVanQuixote

Right I am on it. I appreciate your feedback. Truly I do.

Give me a day or two then. I have been giving some thought for how to do it. If I have two pages, I think I can.

Here are some argument refutations, and links for them, that you might wanna consider:

The argument from design is refuted by reference to a quote available here:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Consider the idea that nature itself is the product of design. How could this be demonstrated? Nature, as we have seen, provides the basis of comparison by which we distinguish between designed objects and natural objects. We are able to infer the presence of design only to the extent that the characteristics of an object differ from natural characteristics. Therefore, to claim that nature as a whole was designed is to destroy the basis by which we differentiate between artifacts and natural objects. Evidences of design are those characteristics not found in nature, so it is impossible to produce evidence of design within the context of nature itself. Only if we first step beyond nature, and establish the existence of a supernatural designer, can we conclude that nature is the result of conscious planning. – George H. Smith

In other words, if EVERYthing is designed, there is no way to compare and contrast things in order to demonstrate that ANY of them are. Thus, since one cannot extract one’s premises from nature, one is forced to assume the conclusion, then cherry-pick proposed examples to support it. But this imposes the definition of designed upon them, rather than drawing it from them, and it proceeds from conclusion to premises, which is the exact opposite of both logic and empirical science. It is, however, precisely how religious dogma proceeds.

The infinite regress argument proposed by Dawkins, and referenced on that page, is good, too.

The anthropic principle argument is refuted in like manner. A good link is:

[Link: www.technologyreview.com...] (free registration required).

The pertinent passage is comprised by the first 2 paragraphs on page 6:
Now, it might be thought an amazing coincidence if Earth were the only planet in the galaxy on which intelligent life evolved. If it happened here, the one planet we have studied closely, surely one would expect it to have happened on a lot of other planets in the galaxy--planets we have not yet had the chance to examine. This objection, however, rests on a fallacy: it overlooks what is known as an "observation selection effect." Whether intelligent life is common or rare, every observer is guaranteed to originate from a place where intelligent life did, in fact, arise. Since only the successes give rise to observers who can wonder about their existence, it would be a mistake to regard our planet as a randomly selected sample from all planets. (It would be closer to the mark to regard our planet as a random sample from the subset of planets that did engender intelligent life, this being a crude formulation of one of the saner ideas extractable from the motley ore referred to as the "anthropic principle.")

to be continued...

1021 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:01:35am

continued...

Since this point confuses many, it is worth expanding on it slightly. Consider two different hypotheses. One says that the evolution of intelligent life is a fairly straightforward process that happens on a significant fraction of all suitable planets. The other hypothesis says that the evolution of intelligent life is extremely complicated and happens perhaps on only one out of a million billion planets. To evaluate their plausibility in light of your evidence, you must ask yourself, "What do these hypotheses predict I should observe?" If you think about it, both hypotheses clearly predict that you should observe that your civilization originated in places where intelligent life evolved. All observers will share that observation, whether the evolution of intelligent life happened on a large or a small fraction of all planets. An observation-selection effect guarantees that whatever planet we call "ours" was a success story. And as long as the total number of planets in the universe is large enough to compensate for the low probability of any given one of them giving rise to intelligent life, it is not a surprise that a few success stories exist.
The argument from irreduceable complexity is easily dealt with by reference to Ken Miller.

The argument that there isn’t enough time for evolution to have occurred is based upon a willful misconstrual of what constitutes evolution. Dawkins deals with it here:

[Link: www.talkorigins.org...]

scroll down to:

1.2.3 Statistical impossibility of proteins?

Excerpt:
What about the argument concerning the statistical improbability of obtaining a specific 141 amino acid sequence by looking for the correct sequence among randomly generated sequences? Certainly this mechanism could not explain the origin of protein sequences, but the creationist suggestion that this mechanism is part of evolutionary theory is false; it is a "straw-man" -- a false creationist caricature of evolution -- used repeatedly by creationists to mislead naive audiences into thinking that evolution is illogical. It is false because it demands a specific sequence in a SINGLE selection step from a pool of random sequences, whereas the real evolutionary model for the origin of protein sequences involves MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF RANDOM MUTATION followed by MULTIPLE selection steps as outlined above.
RTWT

This proof is generalizeable to all such arguments, not just the protein one.

The moral argument is dealt with here:

[Link: www.naturalhistorymag.com...]

Relevant excerpt:
“Tell children they are nothing more than animals and they will behave like animals.” I do not for a moment accept that the conclusion follows from the premise. But even if it did, once again, a disagreeable consequence cannot undermine the truth of a premise. Some have said that Hitler founded his political philosophy on Darwinism. This is nonsense: doctrines of racial superiority in no way follow from natural selection, properly understood. Nevertheless, a good case can be made that a society run on Darwinian lines would be a very disagreeable society in which to live. But, yet again, the unpleasantness of a proposition has no bearing on its truth.

Huxley, George C. Williams, and other evolutionists have opposed Darwinism as a political and moral doctrine just as passionately as they have advocated its scientific truth. I count myself in that company. Science needs to understand natural selection as a force in nature, the better to oppose it as a normative force in politics. Darwin himself expressed dismay at the callousness of natural selection: “What a book a Devil’s Chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low & horridly cruel works of nature!”

And here:

[Link: pinker.wjh.harvard.edu...]

Relevant excerpt:

to be continued...

1022 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:03:55am

I’ve suggested that the dominant theory of human nature in modern intellectual life is based on the Blank Slate, the Noble Savage, and the Ghost in the Machine, and that these doctrines have been challenged by the sciences of mind, brain, genes, and evolution. The challenges have also
been seen to threaten sacred moral values. But, in fact, that doesn’t follow. On the contrary, I think a better understanding of what makes us tick, and of our place in nature, can clarify those
values. This understanding shows that political equality does not require sameness, but rather policies that treat people as individuals with rights; that moral progress does not require that the mind is free of selfish motives, only that it has other motives to counteract them; that responsibility does not require that behavior is uncaused, only that it responds to contingencies of
credit and blame; and that meaning in life does not require that the process that shaped the brain have a purpose, only that the brain itself have a purpose.

Finally, I’ve argued that grounding values in a blank slate is a mistake. It’s a mistake because it makes our values hostages to fortune, implying that some day, discoveries from the field or lab could make them obsolete. And it’s a mistake because it conceals the downsides of denying human nature, including persecution of the successful, totalitarian social engineering, an exaggeration of the effects of the environment (such as in parenting and the criminal justice system), a mystification of the rationale behind responsibility, democracy, and morality, and the devaluating of human life on Earth.

The mention of nontheistic faiths possessing praiseworthy moral systems, such as Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism, might also be mentioned.

The argument that ID is a valid alternative theory is dealt with here:

[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

Relevant excerpt:

The focus on intelligent design has, paradoxically, obscured something else: genuine scientific controversies about evolution that abound. In just about every field there are challenges to one established theory or another. The legitimate way to stir up such a storm is to come up with an alternative theory that makes a prediction that is crisply denied by the reigning theory but that turns out to be true, or that explains something that has been baffling defenders of the status quo, or that unifies two distant theories at the cost of some element of the currently accepted view.

To date, the proponents of intelligent design have not produced anything like that. No experiments with results that challenge any mainstream biological understanding. No observations from the fossil record or genomics or biogeography or comparative anatomy that undermine standard evolutionary thinking.

Instead, the proponents of intelligent design use a ploy that works something like this. First you misuse or misdescribe some scientist's work. Then you get an angry rebuttal. Then, instead of dealing forthrightly with the charges leveled, you cite the rebuttal as evidence that there is a "controversy" to teach.

Note that the trick is content-free. You can use it on any topic. "Smith's work in geology supports my argument that the earth is flat," you say, misrepresenting Smith's work. When Smith responds with a denunciation of your misuse of her work, you respond, saying something like: "See what a controversy we have here? Professor Smith and I are locked in a titanic scientific debate. We should teach the controversy in the classrooms." And here is the delicious part: you can often exploit the very technicality of the issues to your own advantage, counting on most of us to miss the point in all the difficult details.

to be continued...

1023 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:05:28am

continued...

William Dembski, one of the most vocal supporters of intelligent design, notes that he provoked Thomas Schneider, a biologist, into a response that Dr. Dembski characterizes as "some hair-splitting that could only look ridiculous to outsider observers." What looks to scientists - and is - a knockout objection by Dr. Schneider is portrayed to most everyone else as ridiculous hair-splitting.

In short, no science. Indeed, no intelligent design hypothesis has even been ventured as a rival explanation of any biological phenomenon. This might seem surprising to people who think that intelligent design competes directly with the hypothesis of non-intelligent design by natural selection. But saying, as intelligent design proponents do, "You haven't explained everything yet," is not a competing hypothesis. Evolutionary biology certainly hasn't explained everything that perplexes biologists. But intelligent design hasn't yet tried to explain anything.

Finally, the argument that “I ain’t related to no ape!” is dealt with here:

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

Relevant excerpt:

“If Charles Darwin reappeared today, he might be surprised to learn that humans are descended from viruses as well as from apes,” Weiss wrote.
Darwin’s surprise almost certainly would be mixed with delight: when he suggested, in “The Descent of Man” (1871), that humans and apes shared a common ancestor, it was a revolutionary idea, and it remains one today. Yet nothing provides more convincing evidence for the “theory” of evolution than the viruses contained within our DNA. Until recently, the earliest available information about the history and the course of human diseases, like smallpox and typhus, came from mummies no more than four thousand years old. Evolution cannot be measured in a time span that short. Endogenous retroviruses provide a trail of molecular bread crumbs leading millions of years into the past.
Darwin’s theory makes sense, though, only if humans share most of those viral fragments with relatives like chimpanzees and monkeys. And we do, in thousands of places throughout our genome. If that were a coincidence, humans and chimpanzees would have had to endure an incalculable number of identical viral infections in the course of millions of years, and then, somehow, those infections would have had to end up in exactly the same place within each genome. The rungs of the ladder of human DNA consist of three billion pairs of nucleotides spread across forty-six chromosomes. The sequences of those nucleotides determine how each person differs from another, and from all other living things. The only way that humans, in thousands of seemingly random locations, could possess the exact retroviral DNA found in another species is by inheriting it from a common ancestor.
Molecular biology has made precise knowledge about the nature of that inheritance possible. With extensive databases of genetic sequences, reconstructing ancestral genomes has become common, and retroviruses have been found in the genome of every vertebrate species that has been studied. Anthropologists and biologists have used them to investigate not only the lineage of primates but the relationships among animals—dogs, jackals, wolves, and foxes, for example—and also to test whether similar organisms may in fact be unrelated.

Hope this helps.

1024 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:16:17am
1025 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:15:51am

I posted a link against this thread and I chose Islam as the category.

I don't see the link under the spinoff links.

Does it just take time to appear? Did it fail?

Or should I have picked a category that matches the tags: list?

This is the link.

Its a glimpse into Islamic Creationism.

1026 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:17:26am

re: #1025 Mr Secul

It has a classic description of Darwin's Finches pecking on different niches :-)

/ that must be a technical term for a seed

1027 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:19:32am

re: #1025 Mr Secul

Its there now.

Doh!

1028 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:28:51am

Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a
theory”?

A crowd of difficulties...occur...Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered... Why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transition forms?...How can we account for species, when crossed, being sterile,
and producing sterile offspring, whereas, when varieties are crossed,
their fertility is unimpaired?

The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.

1029 Yashmak  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 7:17:03am

re: #1028 montersj

Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a
theory”?

A crowd of difficulties...occur...Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered... Why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transition forms?...How can we account for species, when crossed, being sterile,
and producing sterile offspring, whereas, when varieties are crossed,
their fertility is unimpaired?

The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.

You are aware that quite a large volume of transition forms have been found by archaeologists? One must recognize that transition is a period between more stable species. It follows then, that one might not expect to find even one at randomly chosen point in history, as their time on earth would be very short lived, relative to the expanse of time since life came to be on this planet.

1030 Cato  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 7:17:28am

I wonder how many people actually believe what Dawkins says.

Because it is so pregnant with politics, let's leave evolution out of it for a second. Let's say that Dawkins compared the certitude in chemistry with the science of medicine. Do you actually believe they are on the same epistemological level?

You know for sure that when you combine x amount of an element and y amount of another under certain pressure and heat and for a certain time you end up with something else every time. It is always the same. If it isn't the same, then you did it wrong.

Now with medicine, your doctor can give you an anti-cholestral drug and it can be too effective, completely ineffective or just right at the recommended dose.

Both medicine and chemistry are sciences, but the reliability of outcome is dissimilar. That is why when he compares physics with evolution he has created an unrealistically high standard. The truths of evolution are compelling, but the truths of physics are of a higher order and not to see that is being purposely obtuse.

1031 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 7:37:03am

re: #1029 Yashmak

I'm quoting Darwin.....

1032 quickjustice  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 7:44:44am

re: #1028 montersj

Don't play games with context. Give us the entire Darwin quote in context. And if Darwin was merely addressing the objections of his critics by repeating them, you're intellectually dishonest.

1033 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:21:51am

re: #1028 montersj

Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a
theory”?

A crowd of difficulties...occur...Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered... Why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transition forms?...How can we account for species, when crossed, being sterile,
and producing sterile offspring, whereas, when varieties are crossed,
their fertility is unimpaired?

The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.

It's another Quote Miner, of course. Here's the actual context:

LONG before having arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to the reader. Some of them are so grave that to this day I can never reflect on them without being staggered; but, to the best of my judgment, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory.

Why do you creationists do this? You have to know it's easily checked. You're just utterly shameless liars.

1034 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:23:56am

re: #1032 quickjustice

What "critics?" He was presenting his theory.
quickjustice, the point was not in the quote or the context. The point I was making was that Dawkins said that "Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a theory”?" where was see that Darwin himself, in his book, entitled a chapter, "Difficulties of the Theory,!" I was just bringing a quote or two from the chapter.

1035 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:26:54am

To finish the quote in context:

Long before having arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to the reader. Some of them are so grave that to this day I can never reflect on them without being staggered; but, to the best of my judgment, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory.

These difficulties and objections may be classed under the following heads:-Firstly, why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?

Darwin was posing questions, then answering them. It's really quite amazing how creationists distort and lie about the words that are actually written in Darwin's book.

Where does it say in the Bible that it's OK to lie?

1036 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:32:50am

re: #1029 Yashmak

Yashmak, your point that:
"It follows then, that one might not expect to find even one at randomly chosen point in history, as their time on earth would be very short lived, relative to the expanse of time since life came to be on this planet."
is not how Darwin himself explained the problem, and I quote: "the number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme imperfection of the geological record. [Chapter 10, "On the Imperfection of the Geological Record"]
The trouble is that in the year 2009 the geological record can hardly be described as 'imperfect,' and yet we see that this objection has still not
been addressed.

1037 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:34:07am

Unbelievable. Then he just comes back with another distorted quote.

1038 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:36:02am

Transitional fossils.

There are thousands of them.

1039 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:49:06am

re: #1038 Charles

Darwin seems to find the total absence of many intermediate links completely unexplainable and a major problem.
Your guy just says "...A large number of gaps. This is perhaps the aspect that is easiest to explain, since for stratigraphic reasons alone there must always be gaps. In fact, no current evolutionary model predicts or requires a complete fossil record, and no one expects that the fossil record will ever be even close to complete."
Well I for one am completely convinced by his rigorous analysis!

1040 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:53:29am

re: #1039 montersj

Darwin seems to find the total absence of many intermediate links completely unexplainable and a major problem.
Your guy just says "...A large number of gaps. This is perhaps the aspect that is easiest to explain, since for stratigraphic reasons alone there must always be gaps. In fact, no current evolutionary model predicts or requires a complete fossil record, and no one expects that the fossil record will ever be even close to complete."
Well I for one am completely convinced by his rigorous analysis!

Who do you think you're kidding?

1041 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:01:09am

re: #1035 Charles

These people are so dishonest that they make me feel icky.

The miner even chopped occurred and changed lower case w to W.

montersj have you actually read the original, 'The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.'?

If you did read it then you are as dishonest as the original miner.

If you haven't read it then you are a lazy git and only fractionally less dishonest.

Were you unaware that Creationist quote mines were dishonest? Did you care?

Or can't you tell the difference between the meanings of the two sets of text?

Long before having arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to the reader. Some of them are so grave that to this day I can never reflect on them without being staggered; but, to the best of my judgment, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory.

These difficulties and objections may be classed under the following heads:-Firstly, wWhy, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?

There is a tacit, symbiotic, relationship between the knowingly dishonest and the willfully-ignorant dishonest.

1042 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:08:18am

re: #1040 Charles

In a nutshell, the extreme imperfection of the geological record, then, saves the theory of evolution, and the extreme imperfection of the geological record must be a fact because the theory of evolution requires it. Circular reasoning is actually the only thing that is upholding the theory.
In the 150 odd years since The Origin was published geological investigations have proceeded throughout the world at a rate many many times over the researches done from the creation until 1859, and yet, "the extreme imperfection of the geological record" still remains....
Curiouser and curiouser. Perhaps it is this that make me such an "utterly shameless liar!"

1043 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:15:59am

re: #1041 Mr Secul

montersj have you actually read the original, 'The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.'?
If you did read it then you are as dishonest as the original miner.
If you haven't read it then you are a lazy git and only fractionally less dishonest.

Lazy git, I'm afraid. Plus being an "utterly shameless liar." Don't forget that one.
Can anyone explain to me why disagreement has to resort to name calling? Surely I have the right to quote any which way I please. If you don't like it, reply and explain where I went wrong...what do you have to call me names for? Is this forum for 6 year olds only?

1044 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:17:06am

re: #1042 montersj

Why don't you address the fact that you posted a quote that was distorted, out of context, and chopped up, in order to mislead people?

Which book of the Bible says it's OK to lie and mislead people?

1045 guftafs  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:18:15am

re: #1042 montersj

I don't think the theory of evolution rests solely on geological record, although I suppose it was important to its forming. You seem to be saying that you want an account of all possible instances of evolution before you can accept it, but that is impossible.

Further, this is not how science works. Scientific discoveries are induced from a finite set of experiments and observations. What you're saying sounds like "I can't accept the theory of gravity because I haven't seen every instance falling objects. There are gaps."

And finally polemically, do you support the theory of resurrection? That would be curious, since there is no evidence supporting that belief.

1046 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:19:20am

re: #1043 montersj


Can anyone explain to me why disagreement has to resort to name calling? Surely I have the right to quote any which way I please. If you don't like it, reply and explain where I went wrong...what do you have to call me names for? Is this forum for 6 year olds only?

We call you names not for the sake of being childish, but because that's what you are. Are you really that stupid, or do you not realize that quoting "any which way I please" is base dishonesty? The fact that you continue to do so despite multiple corrections is where "utterly shameless liar" comes from.

1047 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:21:15am

re: #1042 montersj

In a nutshell, the extreme imperfection of the geological record, then, saves the theory of evolution, and the extreme imperfection of the geological record must be a fact because the theory of evolution requires it. Circular reasoning is actually the only thing that is upholding the theory.
In the 150 odd years since The Origin was published geological investigations have proceeded throughout the world at a rate many many times over the researches done from the creation until 1859, and yet, "the extreme imperfection of the geological record" still remains....
Curiouser and curiouser. Perhaps it is this that make me such an "utterly shameless liar!"

No its posting quotes that have been deliberately altered to change their meaning that makes you shameless.

Though, to be fair, if you didn't know that they had been altered then you'd just be lazy. But have you not been following these threads? have you never gone to talk.origins or any similar site? Are you just an innocent, a victim of those nasty Creationist quote miners?

Again we are left wondering, is he lazy or dishonest?

As to the fossil record, any finds are a bonus. Animal remains are rarely preserved. There are people who have spent decades on the African plains documenting what happens to animal corpses over days, weeks, months, years.

They say that good preservation is very rare but maybe they are part of the Great Conspiracy. Who would trust a Taphonomist?

1048 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #1046 thedopefishlives

I might add that misquoting is base dishonesty at best. At worst, it can be actionable libel. Have fun with that.

1049 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:26:50am

re: #1043 montersj

You are carrying on in the same manner as a child. The imperfection of the fossil record is due the hit-or-miss way in which things die in such a way as to be fossilized. You have not yet addressed the issue of transitional fossils. Some of the newest ones from China have dealt with the evolution of feathers. How do you explain them?

1050 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:28:33am

re: #1043 montersj

Can anyone explain to me why disagreement has to resort to name calling?

If I read your posts and your mis-quotes, and evaluate your probably attitude as self-righteous, is that name calling or a considered evaluation?

1051 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:29:04am

re: #1050 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If I read your posts and your mis-quotes, and evaluate your probably attitude as self-righteous, is that name calling or a considered evaluation?

PIMF probably=probable

1052 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:29:56am

Monsterj:

Was the Breslover Rebbe a creationist? I can't imagine.

1053 guftafs  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:30:35am

re: #1045 guftafs

I don't think the theory of evolution rests solely on geological record, although I suppose it was important to its forming. ...

Make that crucial.

1054 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:31:46am

re: #1044 Charles

Why don't you address the fact that you posted a quote that was distorted, out of context, and chopped up, in order to mislead people?

Which book of the Bible says it's OK to lie and mislead people?

Book of Jimmy Swaggart, Chapter 4, verse 5.
//

1055 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:37:52am

re: #1048 thedopefishlives

I thought misquoting would refer to the practice of quoting incorrectly, or altering the original in some way.
I was just picking out the parts from a massive book that were relevant to the point I was making. Two fingered typing is not conducive to quoting large sections.
AND ANYWAY, I REPEAT: the point was not in the quote or the context. The point I was making was that Dawkins said that "Whence, then, comes the oft-parroted canard, “Evolution is only a theory”?"
When we see that Darwin himself, in his book, entitled a chapter, "Difficulties of the Theory,!" I was just bringing a quote or two from the chapter. The point was that if Darwin himself only called it a 'theory,' then why shouldn't anyone else refer to it as a 'theory?' Which, after all is said and done, is all it is.

1056 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:38:41am

re: #1055 montersj

"Theory". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

1057 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:41:55am
"... which can only be achieved through the teachings of ..."

(emphasis in the original)
(quoted out-of-context to illustrate a phenomena within some religious views)

Such certitude must be very comforting to those who ascribe.

1058 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:44:56am

re: #1055 montersj

re: #1056 thedopefishlives

"Theory". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

To take thedopefishlives' comment further:

montersj, give us a precise definition of "theory", as you understand it.

1059 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:44:59am

re: #1050 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Anyone who has been in the Marines can go ahead and call me self-righteous, as long as he can tell the difference between 'probable' and 'probably!'

1060 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:46:08am

I've lost count of the number of times the scientific use of the word 'theory' had been defined for those who use it improperly. Has anyone kept track of it? And can someone pass the aspirin around?

1061 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:46:41am

re: #1059 montersj

Anyone who has been in the Marines can go ahead and call me self-righteous, as long as he can tell the difference between 'probable' and 'probably!'

Question for you: Was the Breslover Rebbe a creationist?

1062 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:51:07am

re: #1059 montersj

Anyone who has been in the Marines can go ahead and call me self-righteous, as long as he can tell the difference between 'probable' and 'probably!'

My nic does not imply that I've BEEN in the Marines.
It says that I had a parent who was a career Marine.

You protested against name-calling.
Now you're using it yourself.

"probably=probable" was preceded by a PIMF, an admission of error.
You, yourself, just excused yourself by referring to two-fingered typing.

Self-righteous?
Sounds like it.

1063 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:53:04am

re: #1062 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My nic does not imply that I've BEEN in the Marines.
It says that I had a parent who was a career Marine.

You protested against name-calling.
Now you're using it yourself.

"probably=probable" was preceded by a PIMF, an admission of error.
You, yourself, just excused yourself by referring to two-fingered typing.

Self-righteous?
Sounds like it.

A troll actually. I have posted the same question to this person who is ignoring it. If he was what I would assumed him to be, I would have had an answer immediately.

1064 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:53:13am

The tone of her last indicates that montersj is seriously on the defensive.

1065 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:54:15am

re: #1064 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The tone of her last indicates that montersj is seriously on the defensive.

Well no one likes to be shown to be a complete idiot.

1066 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:54:34am

re: #1055 montersj

I was just picking out the parts from a massive book that were relevant to the point I was making. Two fingered typing is not conducive to quoting large sections.

If you really typed that yourself, instead of copying and pasting it from a creationist website, then yes, you were absolutely lying. You deliberately left out all the parts that would have provided the context.

1067 guftafs  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:54:44am

re: #1055 montersj

When we see that Darwin himself, in his book, entitled a chapter, "Difficulties of the Theory,!" I was just bringing a quote or two from the chapter. The point was that if Darwin himself only called it a 'theory,' then why shouldn't anyone else refer to it as a 'theory?' Which, after all is said and done, is all it is.

You don't think it's relevant that in the time span between his publication of his book and now there haven't been any scientific grounds to reject Darwin?

1068 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:55:36am

re: #1063 Creeping Eruption

A troll actually. I have posted the same question to this person who is ignoring it. If he was what I would assumed him to be, I would have had an answer immediately.

For certain!

I'm wondering if its nic, avatar and web site link aren't all part of an elaborate deception.

1069 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:56:45am

You even changed some words to make them fit into your distorted, dishonest version.

Again, this is what you wrote:

A crowd of difficulties...occur...Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered...

And this is the true quote that you chopped up and altered:

Long before having arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to the reader. Some of them are so grave that to this day I can never reflect on them without being staggered; but, to the best of my judgment, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory.

1070 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:56:47am

re: #1068 pre-Boomer Marine brat

For certain!

I'm wondering if its nic, avatar and web site link aren't all part of an elaborate deception.

Or not so elaborate. LOL. BBL.

1071 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:02:44am

re: #1069 Charles

You even changed some words to make them fit into your distorted, dishonest version.

Again, this is what you wrote:

Way to nail the troll, Charles. How about it , monstersj, got a reply to that?

1072 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:03:19am

re: #1058 pre-Boomer Marine brat

montersj, give us a precise definition of "theory", as you understand it.

Here it as, as per Merriam-Webster:
1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2: abstract thought : SPECULATION
3: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art
4 a: a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action
b: an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances
5: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena
6 a: a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation
b: an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE
c: a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject

The only thing missing here is,
7. an absolutely incontrovertible undisputable series of proven facts, which are without doubt the absolute truth, and therefore we will go ahead and teach every single child in the whole world exactly according to our complete and comprehensive understanding, everything that has happened in the world since the beginning, and it must be believed by everybody.

1073 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:05:11am

re: #1069 Charles

You even changed some words to make them fit into your distorted, dishonest version.

Again, this is what you wrote:

Heh
Perhaps it's complaint about my probably/probable PMIF should be read as
... *pulling itself up*
... ... "I DO IT BETTER THAN THAT !"

1074 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:06:05am

re: #1072 montersj

ROFLMAO!

1075 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:06:14am

Sure enough. Here's where the quote was originally distorted:

[Link: books.google.com...]

1076 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:06:22am

re: #1071 Dark_Falcon


You're coming at me too fast for me to type answers. Actually I was qouting from a book that was qouting from The Origin.

1077 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:07:54am

re: #1062 pre-Boomer Marine brat


Sorry, I didn't know what PIMF stood for.

1078 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:08:19am

re: #1072 montersj

More distortion. Evolution is a theory that fits the facts, far better than any other out there. Nothing else fits the fossil record, a point you don't really address expect to try to wave away evidence you don't like. Your skills at strawman building are great, at presenting facts and making a case: not so much. I've got go to work, bye now.

1079 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:08:23am

re: #1076 montersj

You're coming at me too fast for me to type answers. Actually I was qouting from a book that was qouting from The Origin.

You were quoting from a creationist book, that distorted Darwin's words.

1080 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:08:55am

The word "theory" in scientific discourse doesn't mean anything even remotely resembling what it means in common parlance. Here's the scientific definition of "theory", according to the United States National Academy of Sciences:

"Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena."

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact."

Sal: Doesn't sound much like a guess or a hunch, does it, montersj? That's because it ain't.

1081 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:10:16am

re: #1068 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm wondering if its nic, avatar and web site link aren't all part of an elaborate deception.

Yup, could be. Guess you got me on that one.

1082 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:12:43am

re: #1072 montersj

You emphasize #2 (which applies to abstract thought) and #6b (which applies to an assumption, as in a debate)

You ignore #1

As an intellectual, you are an ass ... and a desperate one at that.

/undoubtedly inviting another outburst about my connection with the US Marine Corps

1083 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:13:19am

re: #1079 Charles

You were quoting from a creationist book, that distorted Darwin's words.

Ok Charles, so kill me. I've already explained that the quote was not the point. Calling the whole thing a "Theory" is the point. And there I totally agree with Darwin, it is a "theory!" Nothing more and nothing less, so why isn't it being taught as such?

1084 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:15:40am

re: #1076 montersj

re: #1077 montersj

You should be as prepared as you've been making yourself out to be.

1085 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:17:36am

re: #1083 montersj

Calling the whole thing a "Theory" is the point.

See my #1082.

1086 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:17:53am

re: #1082 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You emphasize #2 (which applies to abstract thought) and #6b (which applies to an assumption, as in a debate)
You ignore #1
As an intellectual, you are an ass ... and a desperate one at that.

I didn't emphasize or ignore nuffink. I just copied and pasted.

undoubtedly inviting another outburst of name calling

1087 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:19:46am

re: #1083 montersj

...I totally agree with Darwin...

Wow. So you've changed your mind now, and accept the scientific theory of evolution! Cool.

1088 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:20:13am

re: #1083 montersj

You were quoting from a creationist book, that distorted Darwin's words.

Ok Charles, so kill me. I've already explained that the quote was not the point. Calling the whole thing a "Theory" is the point. And there I totally agree with Darwin, it is a "theory!" Nothing more and nothing less, so why isn't it being taught as such?

Evolution is a fact. It is indisputable, from the fossil record, that species have changed over time. What is a theory is the mechanisms - random genetic mutation acted upon by nonrandom environmental selection - by means of which evolution has proceeded. But these core tenets have been supported by ALL the empirical evidence derived from investigation and experiment over the past 150 years, and been contradicted by NONE of it. Evolutionary theory is one of the most valid, solid and sound theories in science, on a par with Copernicus' heliocentric theory of the solar system, Newton's theory of universal gravitation, Einstein's theory of relativity, and Feynmann's theory of quantum mechanics.

1089 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:20:18am

re: #1080 Salamantis

You're a good man, Salamantis, to define scientific 'theory' once again in hopes of spreading enlightenment...I'm sorry it's falling on deaf ears.

1090 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:23:28am

re: #1086 montersj

I didn't emphasize or ignore nuffink. I just copied and pasted.

Gee, you just copied and pasted? Then why have I never, ever, seen Webster's (or any other dictionary) use ALL CAPS inside a definition?

You are a liar.

1091 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:24:09am

And didja read my #1080, where I informed you what the word 'theory' means in the context of scientific discourse? Well? DIDJA?

In case you somehow missed it, here it is again:

re: #1080 Salamantis

The word "theory" in scientific discourse doesn't mean anything even remotely resembling what it means in common parlance. Here's the scientific definition of "theory", according to the United States National Academy of Sciences:

"Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena."

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact."

Sal: Doesn't sound much like a guess or a hunch, does it, montersj? That's because it ain't.

Deal with it.

1092 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:24:22am

re: #1085 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See my #1082.

And Salamantis's 1080!

1093 montersj  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:26:19am

re: #1087 Charles

You got me on that one Charles. The check is in the post.
So that's it for now my darlings. I have to go and pray to the G-d that created me. You should all have a great night and a great year and good health and happiness and everything good....

1094 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:26:49am

re: #1092 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And Salamantis's 1080!

OMG, another PIMF!

1095 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:29:32am

I notice that montersj refused to address my posts AT ALL.

Chickenshit.

1096 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:30:20am

re: #1093 montersj

And I will pray that you will be gifted with knowledge and wisdom, honesty and humility...

1097 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:30:21am

re: #1093 montersj

I have to go and pray to the G-d that created me.

You might want to pray for forgiveness for lying while you're at it.

1098 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:31:59am

I also thought it was waay kewl how Charles turned montersj's own quotemining practice against it, by quotemining its own post! hehe

1099 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:33:25am

re: #1095 Salamantis

I notice that montersj refused to address my posts AT ALL.

Chickenshit.

Didn't dare.
Your 1080, tied to Webster's #1 in what it copied in, was total castration.

1100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:35:48am

I haven't been here all that long. Did we/you tend to get a better caliber of trolls in olden days?

1101 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:12:15am

LOLOL

1102 Yashmak  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:28:36am

re: #1031 montersj

I'm quoting Darwin.....

I know. And he said those things before carbon dating told us how long life has truly existed on this planet. It's natural that lacking a time frame for his theory of evolution, he might say such a thing.

Fortunately, science has provided us that information since his time.

1103 Yashmak  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:32:34am

re: #1033 Charles

Why do you creationists do this? You have to know it's easily checked. You're just utterly shameless liars.

I know why they do it. They know some of the people they convey these lies to will (like I did in this case) not double-check their quote, trusting they are being honest.

1104 Yashmak  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #1093 montersj

You got me on that one Charles. The check is in the post.
So that's it for now my darlings. I have to go and pray to the G-d that created me. You should all have a great night and a great year and good health and happiness and everything good....

Pray for his forgiveness, for you have had a big morning of bearing false witness.

1105 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:35:11pm

re: #1075 Charles

Sure enough. Here's where the quote was originally distorted:

[Link: books.google.com...]

I'm not so sure. The ellipses may be the key.

I found this which says this

"Long before the reader has arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to him. Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered.... Why if species have descended from other species by fine gradiations do we not see everywhere innumerable transitional forms?... Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain and this perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory...." (Origen of Species, by Charles Darwin, p. 80 & 157; quoted from A Scientific Analysis of Genesis, by Edward F. Blick.)

The author of the web page could be quoting from the same book that montersj mentioned.

re: #1076 montersj


re: #1028 montersj

A crowd of difficulties...occur...Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered... Why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transition forms?...How can we account for species, when crossed, being sterile,
and producing sterile offspring, whereas, when varieties are crossed,
their fertility is unimpaired?

The Origin of Species, chap 6, "Difficulties of the Theory," 158.

Only the bold text overlaps and there are 4 ellipses after staggered on the web page but only 3 in montersj's post.

It looks like imperfect copying is leading to mutation, maybe even a gain in information :-)

I'd like to search inside the book to see if there are matches to the rest of montersj's post but I can't find the text on the web. (There are 15 used copies available on amazon for $1.39.)

I Goggled for Edward F. Blick. and it looks like he is a genuine Christian Scientist. I suspect that he predates ID, maybe he's known to you but I'm going to leave this for now.

1106 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:26:11pm
1107 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:27:39pm

re: #1106 iWatas

Just because you find it irrelevant doesn't mean others do or that you're right.

1108 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:46:03pm

re: #1105 Mr Secul

It looks like imperfect copying is leading to mutation, maybe even a gain in information :-)

I'd like to search inside the book to see if there are matches to the rest of montersj's post but I can't find the text on the web. (There are 15 used copies available on amazon for $1.39.)

I Goggled for Edward F. Blick. and it looks like he is a genuine Christian Scientist. I suspect that he predates ID, maybe he's known to you but I'm going to leave this for now.

Yeah, the false quote obviously came from some kind of loony creationist site, and probably originated with that book I linked. Then it evolved (oh, the irony) into the ellipse-riddled version montersj posted.

1109 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:46:27pm

Comments complaining about evolution posts are going to be deleted.

1110 Former Belgian  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:32:48pm

Charles: I am an out-and-out evolutionist but... Richard Dawkins, as far as I am concerned, is radioactive. His statements on America, Israel, and Jews are right in Gnome Chimpsky territory if not worse.

This is not somebody I'd want in my foxhole on any issue, on any terms, no more than the Vlaams Belang or certain formerly linked bloggers here.

Just my $0.02.

1111 MrWhite21  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:30:55pm

Ideas, like rats, need predators. Otherwise, they get out of hand.

There are two parts to Darwinism as it is popularly understood. One part is based on observation – at which Darwin was a master. The other is extrapolation – not so much on Darwin’s part, but his followers. The problem is that the part that is probably correct is child-like and obvious. And the part that is more grown up is nothing more than empty guesswork. He notes that some animals are better suited to their environments than others. If a polar bear were suddenly born to a hog here in Nicaragua, it probably wouldn’t last long. On the other hand, if a mutation produced a naked polar bear at the North Pole, it wouldn’t stand much of a chance either. Both would probably perish, leaving no heirs or assigns…and thus removing from the gene pool whatever crazy aberration that created them. Some things survive and reproduce; some don’t. The essence of Darwinism is nothing more than that simple-minded observation, as near as we can tell.

But the application of this notion far and wide is a threat to the intellectual eco-system. Because of it, people think they know a lot more than they actually know. To the question, why is the polar bear white, rather than black, they have a ready answer: because evolution made him white. But this is no answer at all…it just postpones thinking until the next question: why did evolution make him that way?

Then, the guesses begin: because he can blend into the snowy background and sneak up on seals. Oh. They tell us, for example, that he covers his nose – which is black – with his paw, so he can get closer without being spotted.

Smart bear. But you’d think if evolution could turn his whole body black it could whitewash his nose too. And what about the seals? Are they morons? You’d think those that couldn’t tell the difference between a bear with his paw over his nose and an iceberg would have been weeded out by now. Besides, why aren’t seals white?

Of course, the biologists and know-it-alls have their answers, but they are just putting 2 and 2 together in the clumsiest way. They really don’t know why polar bears are white. All they know is that nature hasn’t exterminated the white polar bears – yet.

Many of these deep thinkers also believe that Darwin proved that God didn’t create man. Instead, man arose by the process of evolution, they say, one accidental step at a time. Man is the product of pure chance, they claim. As if God couldn’t make it look like an accident, if He wanted!

1112 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:34:03pm

re: #1111 MrWhite21

Of course, the biologists and know-it-alls have their answers, but they are just putting 2 and 2 together in the clumsiest way.

Yeah, those stupid biologist know-it-alls! What a bunch of morons, trying to trick us with this idiotic "science" stuff.

As if God couldn’t make it look like an accident, if He wanted!

So it's God that's trying to trick us?

1113 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:38:05pm

re: #1111 MrWhite21

Science relies on empirical facts to support it's conclusions. Not wild guesses and clumsy addition. That you haven't grasped this is evident from your comment.

1114 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:11:03pm

re: #1111 MrWhite21

Ideas, like rats, need predators. Otherwise, they get out of hand.

There are two parts to Darwinism as it is popularly understood. One part is based on observation – at which Darwin was a master. The other is extrapolation – not so much on Darwin’s part, but his followers. The problem is that the part that is probably correct is child-like and obvious. And the part that is more grown up is nothing more than empty guesswork. He notes that some animals are better suited to their environments than others. If a polar bear were suddenly born to a hog here in Nicaragua, it probably wouldn’t last long. On the other hand, if a mutation produced a naked polar bear at the North Pole, it wouldn’t stand much of a chance either. Both would probably perish, leaving no heirs or assigns…and thus removing from the gene pool whatever crazy aberration that created them. Some things survive and reproduce; some don’t. The essence of Darwinism is nothing more than that simple-minded observation, as near as we can tell.

But the application of this notion far and wide is a threat to the intellectual eco-system. Because of it, people think they know a lot more than they actually know. To the question, why is the polar bear white, rather than black, they have a ready answer: because evolution made him white. But this is no answer at all…it just postpones thinking until the next question: why did evolution make him that way?

Then, the guesses begin: because he can blend into the snowy background and sneak up on seals. Oh. They tell us, for example, that he covers his nose – which is black – with his paw, so he can get closer without being spotted.

Smart bear. But you’d think if evolution could turn his whole body black it could whitewash his nose too. And what about the seals? Are they morons? You’d think those that couldn’t tell the difference between a bear with his paw over his nose and an iceberg would have been weeded out by now. Besides, why aren’t seals white?

Of course, the biologists and know-it-alls have their answers, but they are just putting 2 and 2 together in the clumsiest way. They really don’t know why polar bears are white. All they know is that nature hasn’t exterminated the white polar bears – yet.

The less white polar bears were more apt to starve to death before reproducing, since it is harder to sneak up on prey. It's certainly easier to see a dark coat on a ton-plus animal than it is to see a dark animal. Environmental selection in action. And seals escaping polar bears just jump into the ocean through their access holes, where being white would be a disadvantage when being hunted by killer whales. BTW; baby seals, which are born on land ARE born white; they turn grey later, when they can use the sea to escape from polar bears.

Many of these deep thinkers also believe that Darwin proved that God didn’t create man. Instead, man arose by the process of evolution, they say, one accidental step at a time. Man is the product of pure chance, they claim. As if God couldn’t make it look like an accident, if He wanted!

Nope. While genetic mutation is random, natural selection is nonrandom; it is guided by the environment. And why would a deity want to deceive its human children by inscribing falsehoods in the book of nature, and salting both soil and genes with faked empirical evidence? And if humans can't trust a deity to be honest in the natural world, why should they trust it about anything else?

1115 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:13:26pm
It's certainly easier to see a dark coat on a ton-plus animal than it is to see a dark animal.

It's certainly much easier to see a dark coat on a ton-plus animal in the snow than it is to see a white-coated animal with a dark nose.

PIMF

1116 Leecifer  Thu, Feb 19, 2009 3:47:25am

re: #884 Charles

All this whining does is solidify my opinion that the Republican Party has a GIGANTIC problem with this anti-scientific mindset.

A share your concerns as well Charles, and it is the one thing that really scares me about my voting options in 2012 and 2014 since I consider support of teaching creationism/intelligent design or "teaching the controversy" a complete deal breaker.


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