Adm. Mullen: ‘A Very Very Bad Outcome’

World • Views: 2,450

There’s certainly been plenty of warning; now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff states that Iran has enough fissile materials for a bomb.

WASHINGTON – The top U.S. military official said Sunday that Iran has sufficient fissile material for a nuclear weapon, declaring it would be a “very, very bad outcome” should Tehran move forward with a bomb.

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, offered the assessment when questioned in a broadcast interview about a recent report by the U.N. nuclear watchdog on the state of Iran’s uranium enrichment program, which can create nuclear fuel and may be sufficiently advanced to produce the core of warheads.

Mullen was asked if Iran now had enough fissile material to make a bomb. He responded, “We think they do, quite frankly. And Iran having a nuclear weapon I’ve believed for a long time is a very, very bad outcome for the region and for the world.”

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381 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:48:09pm
Youtube Video

He's going to Poooosh the button

2 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:49:09pm

Guess we will have to pretend to look the other way and let
Israel take care of it.

3 Steve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:49:14pm

I think that it is time now for us to drop the big..... Oh wait, Obama is the POTUS.

4 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:49:41pm

Here's comes the first of Biden's predicted crisis to test Pres. Obama.

And it won't be apparent he is doing the right thing.

But, hey the unicorn defense shield of open hands is protecting us!

5 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:49:54pm

Well, they are going to join that exclusive club we if like it or not. The question is what will happen next? I think the US, Israel and the Europeans should start telling Iran that any kind of nuclear episode coming from Iran will result in the complete destruction of Iran....

6 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:50:13pm

Adm Mullen will probably be looking for a new job this year

7 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:50:46pm

well, goodbye Israel I guess

8 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:50:52pm

re: #4 jcm

Here's comes the first of Biden's predicted crisis to test Pres. Obama.

Nobody messes with Joe!

Don't you feel better now? /////

9 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:50:56pm

Mohamed Turn-el-Blindei could not be reached for comment.

10 musicmaven  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:51:03pm

We'll just ask them to pleeese play nicely and put those nuclear weapons away............ Remember we asked very nicely!

11 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:51:05pm

Of course the MSM leads today with a headline saying "General: Obama More Analytical Than Bush." Yo-yos.

12 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:51:52pm

re: #5 Desert Dog

Well, they are going to join that exclusive club we if like it or not. The question is what will happen next? I think the US, Israel and the Europeans should start telling Iran that any kind of nuclear episode coming from Iran will result in the complete destruction of Iran....

And they would believe that because?

13 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:52:00pm

re: #4 jcm

Here's comes the first of Biden's predicted crisis to test Pres. Obama.

And it won't be apparent he is doing the right thing.

But, hey the unicorn defense shield of open hands is protecting us!

Isn't it amazing (and telling) how many times we've been able to say this in a little over a month?

14 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:52:18pm

re: #11 LynnfromNZ

Of course the MSM leads today with a headline saying "General: Obama More Analytical Than Bush." Yo-yos.

That is probably true. Of course, Jimmah was analytical as well....a lot of good that did the USA

15 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #6 albusteve

Adm Mullen will probably be looking for a new job this year

Yep, bad news will not be tolerated by the "0".
Kindergarden Czar for obambi.

16 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:52:50pm

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Iran is not close to having a nuclear weapon, which gives the United States and others time to try to persuade Tehran to abandon its suspected atomic arms program, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Sunday.

"They're not close to a stockpile, they're not close to a weapon at this point, and so there is some time," Gates said on NBC television's "Meet The Press."

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

17 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:52:54pm

re: #5 Desert Dog

Well, they are going to join that exclusive club we if like it or not. The question is what will happen next? I think the US, Israel and the Europeans should start telling Iran that any kind of nuclear episode coming from Iran will result in the complete destruction of Iran....

a joint strike between Israel and the US, with the blessing of the EU would be nearly perfect....therefore it won't happen

18 Syrah  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:53:12pm

re: #7 SpaceJesus

well, goodbye Israel I guess

Don't count them out just yet.

19 Steve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:53:35pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

Only the mushrooms know for sure!

20 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:53:40pm

Thirty Million Dead

21 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:53:45pm

re: #13 Bloodnok

Isn't it amazing (and telling) how many times we've been able to say this in a little over a month?

The Pundits may deride "cowboy" presidents. But I like our enemies worrying about a president going all cowboy on 'em.

22 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:08pm

re: #12 brookly red

And they would believe that because?

well, if Iran lauches a nuke at Israel, you can count on Israel launching most of it's arsenal to Iran.....that is a given. Iran will be destroyed if they shoot a missle at Israel.

23 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:18pm

re: #7 SpaceJesus

well, goodbye Israel I guess

not even...

24 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:19pm

re: #20 lifeofthemind

Thirty Million Dead

Where?

25 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:29pm

Heh, the mullahs demanded an apology from Hollywood dhimmis. Can only imagine what they'll blackmail out of The Obama.

26 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:48pm

re: #21 jcm

The Pundits may deride "cowboy" presidents. But I like our enemies worrying about a president going all cowboy on 'em.

Better a cowboy than a rodeo clown.

27 FrogMarch  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:48pm

Hollywad is on the case.

28 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:54:58pm

re: #24 MandyManners

Where?

Biden's braincells.

29 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:55:15pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

I prefer erring on the side of caution......

30 jorline  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:55:46pm

I don't think Gates will be welcomed back at Texas A&M after the way he has sucked up to PBO.

31 DEZes  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:55:54pm

re: #26 Bloodnok

Better a cowboy than a rodeo clown.


Who gets to put the big red bulbous nose on Biden?

32 Steve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:56:11pm

I would love to see someone infiltrate Iran and rig the bomb to explode while it is being paraded around Tehran during a celebration.

33 ciaospirit  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:56:32pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

Good find.

34 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:56:43pm

Kaddish
Yit'gadal v'yit'kadash sh'mei raba (Cong: Amein).
May His great Name grow exalted and sanctified (`Cong: Amen.)

b'al'ma di v'ra khir'utei
in the world that He created as He willed.

v'yam'likh mal'khutei b'chayeikhon uv'yomeikhon
May He give reign to His kingship in your lifetimes and in your days,

uv'chayei d'khol beit yis'ra'eil
and in the lifetimes of the entire Family of Israel,

ba'agala uviz'man kariv v'im'ru:
swiftly and soon. Now say:
(Mourners and Congregation:)

Amein. Y'hei sh'mei raba m'varakh l'alam ul'al'mei al'maya
(Amen. May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.)

Yit'barakh v'yish'tabach v'yit'pa'ar v'yit'romam v'yit'nasei
Blessed, praised, glorified, exalted, extolled,

v'yit'hadar v'yit'aleh v'yit'halal sh'mei d'kud'sha
mighty, upraised, and lauded be the Name of the Holy One
(Mourners and Congregation:)

B'rikh hu.
Blessed is He.

l'eila min kol bir'khata v'shirara
beyond any blessing and song,

toosh'b'chatah v'nechematah, da'ameeran b'al'mah, v'eemru:
praise and consolation that are uttered in the world. Now say:
(Mourners and Congregation:)

Amein
Amen

Y'hei sh'lama raba min sh'maya
May there be abundant peace from Heaven

v'chayim aleinu v'al kol yis'ra'eil v'im'ru
and life upon us and upon all Israel. Now say:
(Mourners and Congregation:)

Amein
Amen

Oseh shalom bim'romav hu ya'aseh shalom
He Who makes peace in His heights, may He make peace,

aleinu v'al kol Yis'ra'eil v'im'ru
upon us and upon all Israel. Now say:
(Mourners and Congregation:)

Amein
Amen

35 Steve Rogers  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:56:43pm

Change Iran can believe in!

36 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:57:13pm

re: #21 jcm

The Pundits may deride "cowboy" presidents. But I like our enemies worrying about a president going all cowboy on 'em.

Yes, It did not take Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi1 long to
turn over all his toys after Bush took out Saddam.

37 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:57:28pm

re: #29 jcm

I prefer erring on the side of caution......

/it's just amusing that the two top officials of the Defense Department can't even get their story straight on the same day

38 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:57:30pm

re: #24 MandyManners

Where?

Here and there, that is what this means.

39 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:57:43pm

re: #28 VegasRick

Biden's braincells.

Youtube Video
40 sneezey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:58:04pm

Maybe Obama's charm will talk them out of it...

41 ciaospirit  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:58:20pm

re: #26 Bloodnok

Better a cowboy than a rodeo clown.

Hahahahahah.

42 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:11pm

Iran neither respects nor fears us.

43 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:22pm

re: #38 lifeofthemind

Here and there, that is what this means.

I was wondering if you'd read a study about the potential damage if Iran should fire on Israel but that didn't compute for me.

44 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:27pm

Disinformation?

45 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:29pm

Israel should have acted last summer...the old 'the longer you wait' adage is true...what a mess now

46 itellu3times  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:37pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

Thank you Baghdad Bob Gates.

He may even be right, but he really can't know it with any certainty, and should be predisposed to erring on the side of caution - as in protecting his country directly - leave the schmancy stuff to Hillary.

47 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:59:57pm
48 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:00:05pm

re: #42 rawmuse

Iran neither respects nor fears us.

Fuck respect. I'll go for fear. They feared Pres. Bush.

49 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:00:27pm

The mullahs turbans are on too tight if they think they would survive a response from Israel and the USA should they be dumb enough to launch one of theirs. I do not buy this 12th Imam suicide cult either. They are human beings and want to live like most people. They get weak minded tools to do their suicide bidding, you never see the "leaders" carry out that kind of activity. They are making these weapons to secure their power inside Iran, and to dominate their neighbors.

I hope........

50 itellu3times  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:01:06pm

re: #49 Desert Dog

Me too.

51 Steve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Fuck respect. I'll go for fear. They feared Pres. Bush.

And Reagan.

52 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:01:21pm

re: #37 Killian Bundy

/it's just amusing that the two top officials of the Defense Department can't even get their story straight on the same day

Doesn't bode well. Not getting the same info, internal power struggle etc.... lack of leadership. Amusing, but pretty serious at the same time. Our enemies will see discord and confusion which can be exploited.

53 SurferDoc  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:01:37pm

While Obama tries to figure out new ways to blow Iran, Israel will do what needs to be done.

55 monkeytime  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:01:47pm

Everyone just simma downa. There are no worries. Have you all forgotten that a group of our nations finest minds from Hollywood is in Iran as we speak?
This will all be ironed out in no time flat.

//

56 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:02:12pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Fuck respect. I'll go for fear. They feared Pres. Bush.

Are you insinuating that they do not fear Obama?

//

57 jjmckay1216  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:02:12pm

re: #11 LynnfromNZ

Of course the MSM leads today with a headline saying "General: Obama More Analytical Than Bush." Yo-yos.

oh puh-leeeze. sending 17,000 to afganistan with no game plan. Yup real Analytical

rant off

58 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:02:15pm

re: #49 Desert Dog

The mullahs turbans are on too tight if they think they would survive a response from Israel and the USA should they be dumb enough to launch one of theirs. I do not buy this 12th Imam suicide cult either. They are human beings and want to live like most people. They get weak minded tools to do their suicide bidding, you never see the "leaders" carry out that kind of activity. They are making these weapons to secure their power inside Iran, and to dominate their neighbors.

I hope........

they are the richest targets of all....propriety will get alot of innocent people killed...I hate fancy manners when there is a knife at my throat

59 itellu3times  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:03:00pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Fuck respect. I'll go for fear. They feared Pres. Bush.

I dunno about that Mandy, the phrase "pitiful, helpless giant" comes to mind.

60 jordash1212  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:03:17pm

Kenneth Waltz disagrees with you, Adm. Mullen. There are two different camps when it comes to neo-realist analysis of what would come from Iran developing a nuclear weapon. Waltz thinks it would even stabilize Israel/Palestine since Iran would no longer seek the help of Hezbollah and Hamas to destabilize Israel. An interesting thought, but certainly not something I want to bet on. What's to say that if Tehran gets a bomb, that they won't stop sponsoring terrorism and, in fact, increase sponsoring it? Personally, I think it's unwise to let Tehran get a weapon because that will increase the number of weapons programs in surrounding countries in order to compete with Iran. That just means there's more nukes loose that could fall into the wrong hands. That's bad news for any Western country, not just Israel or the United States.

61 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:03:20pm

One simple, hyphenated word: Pre-emption.

62 Syrah  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:03:53pm

re: #42 rawmuse

Iran neither respects nor fears us.

Getting the respect of suicidal megalomaniacs who think that they are on a mission from god can prove to be, . . . problematic.

63 zombie  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:03:59pm

To quote my favortie stanza from buzzsawmonkey's "A Modern Liberal Democrat" (sung to the tune of "A Modern Major General"):

I reject the notion that Al-Qaeda wants to form a Caliphate
We'd rapidly end differences if we would just negotiate
I think we should do more to prevent other nations' genocide
But if we use our military I'll support the other side
64 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:06pm

re: #52 jcm

Doesn't bode well. Not getting the same info, internal power struggle etc.... lack of leadership. Amusing, but pretty serious at the same time. Our enemies will see discord and confusion which can be exploited.

/and Chas Freeman is writing Obama's daily intelligence briefings, what could possibly go wrong?

65 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:18pm

Koskidz don't believe it....
The latest "nuclear threat" has my BS detector swinging wild.

66 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:37pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Fuck respect. I'll go for fear. They feared Pres. Bush.

My point exactly.

67 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:39pm

re: #60 jordash1212

They won't even have to fire one off, just threaten to.

68 zombie  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:46pm

re: #47 buzzsawmonkey

See? Your posts echo through the ages.

69 itellu3times  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:51pm

re: #62 Syrah

Getting the respect of suicidal megalomaniacs who think that they are on a mission from god can prove to be, . . . problematic.

But it can be so much fun trying.

70 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:04:53pm

re: #55 monkeytime

Everyone just simma downa. There are no worries. Have you all forgotten that a group of our nations finest minds from Hollywood is in Iran as we speak?
This will all be ironed out in no time flat.

//

// oh great, so now they figured out a delivery system too.

71 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:05:18pm

re: #56 Desert Dog

The only people that fear Obama are taxpaying Americans.

72 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:05:45pm
73 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:05:48pm

re: #39 MandyManners



The Villages might be "America's friendliest home town" but Scranton is a ceespool, a real hell hole.......and Wilmington isn't much better.

[Link: www.nbc.com...]

74 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:06:05pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Koskidz don't believe it....
The latest "nuclear threat" has my BS detector swinging wild.

I would think that posters BS Detector is already on overload from the crap coming out of the blog he is posting from....how can he tell?

75 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:06:36pm

re: #71 LionOfDixon

The only people that fear Obama are taxpaying Americans.

This new AG worries me quite a bit. But for Pelosi, he would have already pulled some idiot publicity stunt.

76 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:07:27pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Koskidz don't believe it....
The latest "nuclear threat" has my BS detector swinging wild.

Here's the result of the poll so far.

Killing military boondoggles is

going to be more difficult than capturing Osama bin Laden.
15% 5 votes

going to be more difficult than killing zombies.
28% 9 votes

not going to happen until they delouse the body politic and kill the lobbyists.
56% 18 votes

77 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:08:17pm

OT: Strange Elongated Skulls Discovered

With some great explanations from Russian scientists.

78 dentate  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:08:23pm

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

Makes me feel warm all over.

If THAT makes you feel warm all over, just wait till you see what Ahmadinejad has in mind...

79 kingkenrod  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:08:49pm

re: #60 jordash1212

Kenneth Waltz disagrees with you, Adm. Mullen. There are two different camps when it comes to neo-realist analysis of what would come from Iran developing a nuclear weapon. Waltz thinks it would even stabilize Israel/Palestine since Iran would no longer seek the help of Hezbollah and Hamas to destabilize Israel. An interesting thought, but certainly not something I want to bet on. What's to say that if Tehran gets a bomb, that they won't stop sponsoring terrorism and, in fact, increase sponsoring it? Personally, I think it's unwise to let Tehran get a weapon because that will increase the number of weapons programs in surrounding countries in order to compete with Iran. That just means there's more nukes loose that could fall into the wrong hands. That's bad news for any Western country, not just Israel or the United States.

Waltz's statement about Iran not using Hamas and Hezbollah has no basis in reality. Both organizations allow Iran to project power outside its borders, Israel is not the only issue.

Your point about an arms race in the middle east is an important one. If Iran gets a bomb, Turkey and Saudi Arabia will almost certainly want to move in that direction.

80 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:08:53pm

re: #64 Killian Bundy

/and Chas Freeman is writing Obama's daily intelligence briefings, what could possibly go wrong?

Chas is probably as a bullseye on Tel Aviv on his office map of Israel.

81 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:09:32pm

re: #71 LionOfDixon

The only people that fear Obama are taxpaying Americans.

And, Rush.

82 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:09:40pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

Some paleo cultures would flatten the skulls of infants with boards to elongate them, even here in the Americas.

83 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:09:56pm
84 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:10:06pm

For those who want a real world information on the economy, taxes, stimulus, and personal finance: Bob Brinker live

85 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:10:36pm

it's PC...what started as a social fad is now a disease spread across the planet and free men are afraid to act in the name of moral repsonsibilty...instead they cower to the the unholy UN and lame assed public brainwashing...there is simply no excuse besides cowerdice...Israel will have to do it alone to survive

86 ciaospirit  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:10:36pm

re: #49 Desert Dog

The mullahs turbans are on too tight if they think they would survive a response from Israel and the USA should they be dumb enough to launch one of theirs. I do not buy this 12th Imam suicide cult either. They are human beings and want to live like most people. They get weak minded tools to do their suicide bidding, you never see the "leaders" carry out that kind of activity. They are making these weapons to secure their power inside Iran, and to dominate their neighbors.

I hope........

The problem is their turbans are on too tight.

And the goal is chaos to hasten the return of the 12th imam. It's win/win for them. Plus they know that we will fight a PC war like Iraq. We will try to save Iran's civilians even if their own leaders won't, at the cost of our own men and women.

87 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:10:37pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

OT: Strange Elongated Skulls Discovered

With some great explanations from Russian scientists.

Bah! Aliens have been here!
//////

88 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:10:50pm

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

They used it to predict the weather!
/Russian scientist

89 Joo-LiZ  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:11:26pm

If there is not a major showdown in the Middle East this summer, I will be VERY surprised.

There are 3 or 4 fault lines along which major action happen... Lebanon seems on the brink of boiling over, with Hezbollah declaring themselves ready for war, Olmert woke up to the idea today that he didn't finish the job in Gaza, increasing tensions between Syria and Israel, and all of this latest with Iran's nuclear material.

90 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:12:04pm

I bet they're already hand-stitching a special hijab for Michelle.

91 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:12:11pm

.......it's not the end of days.......
.......it's not the end of days.......
.......it's not the end of days.......
.......it's not the end of days.......

/I hope.......

92 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:13:09pm

The bland assumption of the Realists behind Obama (The International Liberals are a different group who simply refuse to believe in icky things like bombs) is that Iran can have the bomb and it will be no big deal because they will be as subject to deterrence as the Russians or Chinese were. John Mearshiemer sat down with me and assured me of this in a one on one conversation. Now Mao was pretty scary but he did not in fact start WW-III. The multi Trillion dollar question (darn inflation) is are the Iranians looking forward to Armageddon in order to coax the Imam out of his well or is that all a bluff and propaganda for the rubes?

93 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:13:33pm

How are all my radioactive Honcos doin?

94 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:13:55pm

What if.....just maybe......Obama really is Chance the Gardner?
That would explain it all, would it not?

95 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:14:14pm

re: #93 Oh no...Sand People!

How are all my radioactive Honcos doin?

Digging a fall out shelter..........

//////

96 jorline  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:14:15pm

What missile defense system doe Israel have?

97 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:14:20pm
98 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:14:26pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

OT: Strange Elongated Skulls Discovered

With some great explanations from Russian scientists.

Skull binding.

99 callahan23  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:15:00pm

re: #93 Oh no...Sand People!

How are all my radioactive Honcos doin?

Radiating.

100 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:15:07pm

re: #86 ciaospirit

I would hope that the gloves come off if there is any kind of nuclear nonsense from Iran. Iran would be "erased" if something happens on US soil

101 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:15:08pm

re: #80 jcm

Chas is probably as a bullseye on Tel Aviv on his office map of Israel.

So does NSC advisor Samantha Power, she wants to put U.S. boots on the ground.

/the Obama administration is lousy with anti-Semites, bad news for Israel

102 FightingBack  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:15:10pm

re: #5 Desert Dog

Episode? Get them first.

103 Opinionated  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:15:43pm
And Iran having a nuclear weapon I’ve believed for a long time is a very, very bad outcome for the region and for the world.”

So explain this:

U.S. puts brakes on Israeli plan for attack on Iran nuclear facilities

The American administration has rejected an Israeli request for military equipment and support that would improve Israel's ability to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.

The Americans viewed the request, which was transmitted (and rejected) at the highest level, as a sign that Israel is in the advanced stages of preparations to attack Iran. They therefore warned Israel against attacking, saying such a strike would undermine American interests. They also demanded that Israel give them prior notice if it nevertheless decided to strike Iran.

As compensation for the requests it rejected, Washington offered to improve Israel's defenses against surface-to-surface missiles.

[Link: haaretz.com...]

Those highest levels? BUSH/RICE

104 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:16:00pm
105 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:16:18pm

re: #98 HelloDare

I didn't know the Huns did it too. That would explain where the Russians got the idea.

106 ciaospirit  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:16:23pm

re: #100 Desert Dog

I would hope that the gloves come off if there is any kind of nuclear nonsense from Iran. Iran would be "erased" if something happens on US soil

I used to believe that. Now not so much.

107 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:16:37pm

Just like Joe Biden said. Obama will be tested in the first six months (weeks?) and we may not initially agree with his response.
Maybe Biden really IS the smartest guy in the room?


Nah.

108 Salem  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:16:56pm

re: #52 jcm

Doesn't bode well. Not getting the same info, internal power struggle etc.... lack of leadership. Amusing, but pretty serious at the same time. Our enemies will see discord and confusion which can be exploited.

Unless it's just the same game of good cop/bad cop we've been playing all along. I'm sure that's what a lot of countries assume.

109 chicagodudewhotrades  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:17:12pm

re: #96 jorline

They have a system called Arrow which is said to be better than Patriot

110 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:17:25pm

re: #16 Killian Bundy

But, but . . .

Iran “not close” to nuclear weapon: Gates

Do they or don''t they?

/I suppose only their hairdresser knows for sure

They have low enriched uranium. It would take a bit of reconfiguration of one of their enrichment facilities to enrich it to weapons grade.
Unless they have hidden such a facility already.
My guess is a few months to a year.

111 bhabcy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:17:49pm

When people claim they are analytical, it means they can't make a decision: Paralysis by Analysis. GWB with all his failures did not suffer from this disease!
BHO & HRC will figure out a way to blame him for the whole mess anyway. Either he "went it alone" or did not do anything. Never mind the constant pushing for Europe and Russia to take action. I'll put my eggs in Israel's basket. It understands survival!
And American Jews will continue to vote for the Dems...
Cheers!

112 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:17:52pm

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

Between skull binding, foot binding, and foundation garments, the human race really manages to get all tied up.

When they unwind........
Look out.

113 callahan23  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:18:11pm

re: #100 Desert Dog

I would hope that the gloves come off if there is any kind of nuclear nonsense from Iran. Iran would be "erased" if something happens on US soil

Wishful thinking or did you simply forgot the question mark?
Ah overlooked it:

"I would hope..."
114 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:18:21pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Koskidz don't believe it....
The latest "nuclear threat" has my BS detector swinging wild.

When it happens it will be a total surprise to them.

115 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:18:29pm

re: #75 rawmuse

Holder already did. He called Americans cowards because we don't "dialogue" about race to his affirmative-action liking. How nice. In Holder's world, Chesley Sullenberger is a coward yet Al Sharpton is a hero.

Orwell, you ring so true today.

116 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:19:03pm

re: #20 lifeofthemind

Thirty Million Dead


Most Iranians. Most innocent victims of their own government's bad judgement.

117 Kulhwch  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:19:05pm

Two links, if they haven't already been posted, that some may want to look into.  First, a link (United Against Nuclear Iran) that allows you to sign a petition to tell businesses involved in Iran to please not do business with that country.  Then a link to Terror-Free Investing ...

}:/     [If any of us have money left to invest ... ]

118 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:19:39pm
119 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #109 chicagodudewhotrades

They have a system called Arrow which is said to be better than Patriot

Preemptive strikes work good as well.

120 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:19:54pm

re: #22 Desert Dog

well, if Iran lauches a nuke at Israel, you can count on Israel launching most of it's arsenal to Iran.....that is a given. Iran will be destroyed if they shoot a missle at Israel.

And Ahmadmanonjihad will feel he accomplished something by creating so many martyrs.
I guess this means the call is out, paradise needs more virgins.

121 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:20:12pm
122 jorline  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:20:14pm

re: #109 chicagodudewhotrades

They have a system called Arrow which is said to be better than Patriot

Thanks...reading now.

Arrow 2 Theatre Ballistic Missile Defence System, Israel

123 Truck Monkey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:20:25pm

re: #114 debutaunt

When it happens it will be a total surprise to them.

When it does happen, and you know it will, it will be George Bushs fault.
Mark. My. Words.

124 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:21:05pm

Low grade, high grade, fact is, the world has let them make the grade.

125 Opinionated  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:21:22pm

re: #123 Truck Monkey

When it does happen, and you know it will, it will be George Bushs fault.
Mark. My. Words.

IT IS BUSH'S FAULT

126 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:21:26pm

re: #116 Jim in Virginia

Most Iranians. Most innocent victims of their own government's bad judgement.

Most? most?

1) I regret even the Iranian dead
2) So how many Israeli and American dead will be OK?

127 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:21:41pm

re: #115 LionOfDixon

Holder already has two of the most shameful US law enforcement events on his resume, the Branch Davidians and Elian Gonsales. He will have more to come.

128 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:21:51pm

re: #43 MandyManners

I was wondering if you'd read a study about the potential damage if Iran should fire on Israel but that didn't compute for me.


Google Anthony Cordesman and Iran. Excellent, scary article.Teheran is the "perfect nuclear killing grounds."
I'll see if i can find it.

129 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:22:12pm
130 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:22:30pm

re: #34 lifeofthemind

Remember, G-d has ways of protecting Israel.
All Jewish men - put on tefillin. Your local Chabad will be glad to help.
The Rebbe said that this helps protect Israel. And he said that in 1967; we see how well that worked.

May the Iranian bomb land on Damascus.

131 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:23:11pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Not any more. He is no longer in the Oval Office.

Gimme a break with that obtuse logic.

132 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:23:16pm

re: #42 rawmuse

Iran neither respects nor fears us.

They probably crack up laughing ever time 0bama says to unclench their fists.

133 Opinionated  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:23:19pm

re: #103 Opinionated

From same source:

U.S. National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen both visited here in June and, according to the Washington Post, told senior Israeli defense officials that Iran is still far from obtaining nuclear weapons, and that an attack on Iran would undermine American interests. Therefore, they said, the U.S. would not allow Israeli planes to overfly Iraq en route to Iran.

134 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:23:39pm

re: #118 Iron Fist

The only problem is classic deterrence only works for those whom and Armageddon scenario has no appeal.

The cult of the 12th Iman is seeking that scenario.

Preemption is the only option.

135 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:23:59pm

it's all about the Mullahs...they need to be retired somehow...who would give a shit besides Russia, and Irans weenies?...nobody

136 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:24:00pm

re: #127 rawmuse

Holder already has two of the most shameful US law enforcement events on his resume, the Branch Davidians and Elian Gonsales. He will have more to come.

It seemed like Elian's mother escaped from a plantation with her child and then he was returned. Sickening.

137 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:24:09pm

re: #47 buzzsawmonkey

Why would they? They've been at war with us for 30 years and we haven't attacked them yet.

Yes. Carter I didn't do the job; now Carter II wants to surrender more.

138 Truck Monkey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:24:27pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Not any more. He is no longer in the Oval Office.

Doesn't matter. I remember Bubba blaming stuff on RWR 7 or 8 years after RWR had left the presidency. It will be Bushs fault. Liberalism, besides being a mental disorder, means never having to admit your wrong or at fault..

139 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:24:28pm

Anthony Cordesman: Iran,Israel and Nuclear War

140 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #118 Iron Fist

If the leaders of Iran were stupid enough to launch an attack involving nuclear weapons, they will become the targets. Do you really think Israel would not respond? Do you really think that the USA would not respond if there was a nuclear device detonated on our soil? If Obama did not immediately respond, I think the Generals would push him out of the way and respond themselves. MAD works. We would not sit here and "take it" and try to understand the motives of Iran...we would destroy them totally and completely.

141 dentate  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:25:10pm

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

Between skull binding, foot binding, and foundation garments, the human race really manages to get all tied up.

I am at the end of my rope and feeling fit to be tied. There's bound to be away knot to let Iran wrap this up.

142 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:25:19pm

re: #55 monkeytime

Everyone just simma downa. There are no worries. Have you all forgotten that a group of our nations finest minds from Hollywood is in Iran as we speak?
This will all be ironed out in no time flat.

//

They're planning the movie of the "Heroic Struggle of the Islamic Republic to Defeat the Zionist Entity"
But they'll need a catchier title.
I prefer "Boom Goes Iran"

143 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:25:22pm

re: #128 Jim in Virginia

Google Anthony Cordesman and Iran. Excellent, scary article.Teheran is the "perfect nuclear killing grounds."
I'll see if i can find it.

Regular polution there kills hundreds yearly but I've not heard of ShortShit doing anything to clean it.

144 Opinionated  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:25:34pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Not any more. He is no longer in the Oval Office.

Doesn't wash.

Bush allowed Iran to get this far.

Bush resulted in an Obama Presidency.

While Obama will cause nothing but hearache, Bush deserves no defense considering how he left this mess.

145 midwestgak  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:25:48pm

re: #123 Truck Monkey

When it does happen, and you know it will, it will be George Bushs fault.
Mark. My. Words.

If you have Comcast you can watch the asinine movie "W" on Channel 1. What a treat.//

Bush isn't even in power anymore. sheesh.

146 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:26:37pm

re: #140 Desert Dog

If the leaders of Iran were stupid enough to launch an attack involving nuclear weapons, they will become the targets. Do you really think Israel would not respond? Do you really think that the USA would not respond if there was a nuclear device detonated on our soil? If Obama did not immediately respond, I think the Generals would push him out of the way and respond themselves. MAD works. We would not sit here and "take it" and try to understand the motives of Iran...we would destroy them totally and completely.

not sure...BO has no conviction that he has expressed that I know of

147 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:26:43pm

re: #60 jordash1212

Kenneth Waltz disagrees with you, Adm. Mullen. There are two different camps when it comes to neo-realist analysis of what would come from Iran developing a nuclear weapon. Waltz thinks it would even stabilize Israel/Palestine since Iran would no longer seek the help of Hezbollah and Hamas to destabilize Israel. An interesting thought, but certainly not something I want to bet on. What's to say that if Tehran gets a bomb, that they won't stop sponsoring terrorism and, in fact, increase sponsoring it? Personally, I think it's unwise to let Tehran get a weapon because that will increase the number of weapons programs in surrounding countries in order to compete with Iran. That just means there's more nukes loose that could fall into the wrong hands. That's bad news for any Western country, not just Israel or the United States.

Yes, Tehran would want to give nukes to terrorist groups, and deny that they did so, preventing retaliation, they hope.

148 chicagodudewhotrades  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:26:55pm

re: #127 rawmuse


Both of those events were more AG Janet Reno's call. Not Holder's

149 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:26:55pm

re: #145 midwestgak

Always the scapegoat.

150 jvic  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:12pm

If there's a fundamental difference of judgment between Gates and Mullen, the Admiral should resign, and so should the Chiefs who agree with him.

The professional thing to do. The patriotic thing to do.

151 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:16pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Orwell was describing socialism bought about by a populace that had been dumbed-down to the point it could not recognize tyranny. Socialism is tyranny, period. Socialism, whatever it stripe, is always authoritarian.

152 pat  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:18pm

The Messiah Meets The 12th Mullah.

153 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:46pm

Currently on part 8 at Hotair's Rush monologue. Good stuff.

154 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:56pm

re: #140 Desert Dog

If the leaders of Iran were stupid enough to launch an attack involving nuclear weapons, they will become the targets. Do you really think Israel would not respond? Do you really think that the USA would not respond if there was a nuclear device detonated on our soil? If Obama did not immediately respond, I think the Generals would push him out of the way and respond themselves. MAD works. We would not sit here and "take it" and try to understand the motives of Iran...we would destroy them totally and completely.

John Bolton...
In response to the idea that we could use deterrence to keep Iran in check, as we did with the Soviet Union during the Cold War: "You have people who prize life in the hereafter more than life on earth, they're not subject to classic theories of deterrence."

155 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:27:59pm

re: #139 Jim in Virginia

Anthony Cordesman: Iran,Israel and Nuclear War

Waaaaaaaaaay over my pay-grade but, I'll do my best to get through it.

156 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:08pm

re: #139 Jim in Virginia

Anthony Cordesman: Iran,Israel and Nuclear War

THANKS!

157 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:13pm

re: #148 chicagodudewhotrades

Both of those events were more AG Janet Reno's call. Not Holder's

True, but Holder was in the chain of command. He could have at least protested. He did not.

158 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:31pm

re: #80 jcm

Chas is probably as a bullseye on Tel Aviv on his office map of Israel.

You mean Freeman has a map that is marked Israel and not Palestine?

159 kingkenrod  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:32pm

re: #25 vagabond trader

Heh, the mullahs demanded an apology from Hollywood dhimmis. Can only imagine what they'll blackmail out of The Obama.

Hollywood dhimmis up for the mullahs.

160 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:37pm
161 looking closely  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:28:42pm

Obama has already made it clear he isn't going to to jack about this.

Does Israel even have a government yet? Assuming Netanyahu manages this feat, he's not likely to have a stable coalition. . .that's not good either.

162 pat  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:30:16pm

i think it important to remember that Ayatollah Khomeini made it clear that in his version of Islam, Iran is but a stage. The nationhood or the residents were of no consequence. Only Islam mattered. If Iran had to be martyred to kill nonbelievers he could care less. Which explains the disdain the current Mullahs have for the population.

163 Lincolntf  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:30:44pm

re: #136 debutaunt

Watching the footage of the Elian Gonzalez raid was like seeing something from a paranoid anti-Government conspiracy film. Who would've thought that masked, armed men "sent by the Government" would be able to break down the doors of an American home and ship a child off to a Third-World dictatorship?
I hated the Clinton Administration for that.

164 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:31:11pm

re: #139 Jim in Virginia

do you have a url? this is not coming up.

165 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:31:22pm

re: #154 jcm

John Bolton...
In response to the idea that we could use deterrence to keep Iran in check, as we did with the Soviet Union during the Cold War: "You have people who prize life in the hereafter more than life on earth, they're not subject to classic theories of deterrence."

The MSM / lib has no idea what we are dealing with...

166 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:31:31pm

Why doesn't Bush senior who is such good pals with Saudi clan go for a visit(#3,245) and convince them step up to the plate for once in their lives.

167 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:32:28pm

re: #166 So?

Why doesn't Bush senior who is such good pals with Saudi clan go for a visit(#3,245) and convince them step up to the plate for once in their lives.

and do what?...they are scared to death of Iran

168 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:32:34pm

re: #160 Iron Fist

I would imagine that, after we didn't use nuclear weapons in retalliation for 9-11, the belief that we will use them in response to anything else is probably pretty thin.

Against whom should we have used them?

169 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:32:38pm

I feel better knowing the Bibi is at the helm in Israel. I have no hope™ that the United States will deal with this menace.

170 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:33:08pm

re: #163 Lincolntf

Watching the footage of the Elian Gonzalez raid was like seeing something from a paranoid anti-Government conspiracy film. Who would've thought that masked, armed men "sent by the Government" would be able to break down the doors of an American home and ship a child off to a Third-World dictatorship?
I hated the Clinton Administration for that.

It was unreal to see that child looking in horror at the men who took him away from his family.

171 opnion  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:33:31pm

re: #166 So?

Why doesn't Bush senior who is such good pals with Saudi clan go for a visit(#3,245) and convince them step up to the plate for once in their lives.

Not a bad idea. 'Arab" nations are not all that thrilled about a Persian Bomb.

172 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:33:40pm

re: #118 Iron Fist

If an Iranian-backed group detonates a nuke in the US, and 0bama does nothing, there will be crowds calling for his impeachment.
The liberals will be trying to figure out why "we deserved it", while everyone else will be close to ending 0bama's reign the same way the Italians took care of Mussolini. It would be very ugly.

And I think 0bama's advisors know it. As much as he'll want to apologize for using up a rare nuclear device, he'll have to retaliate in some way more than a strongly worded letter.

173 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #164 brookly red

do you have a url? this is not coming up.

It's pdf format so it took me a few tries.

174 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:34:18pm

re: #167 albusteve

and do what?...they are scared to death of Iran

Hasn't the US armed them to the teeth since the 70s. Oh the bed sheets will have to actually fight. Well, if no arab nation will, then bombs away Israel. It's now or never.

175 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:34:25pm

re: #123 Truck Monkey

When it does happen, and you know it will, it will be George Bushs fault.
Mark. My. Words.

And it will be, partially, as Bush stopped Israel from attacking Iran already.

176 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:34:30pm
177 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:34:56pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

I feel better knowing the Bibi is at the helm in Israel. I have no hope™ that the United States will deal with this menace.

Well, I hope he lives up to electoral promise.

178 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:35:08pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

I feel better knowing the Bibi is at the helm in Israel. I have no hope™ that the United States will deal with this menace.

yes...I'm sure he has a plan and I doubt he is intimidated with alot of BO doublespeek....he's an accomplished soldier and politician and BO probably does not want to deal with him....a good thing imo

179 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:35:19pm

re: #26 Bloodnok

Better a cowboy than a rodeo clown.

That's an insult to all professional clowns. Obama is a rank amateur as a clown.

180 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:36:05pm

Elian.

181 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:36:25pm

re: #174 So?

Hasn't the US armed them to the teeth since the 70s. Oh the bed sheets will have to actually fight. Well, if no arab nation will, then bombs away Israel. It's now or never.

the best thing the Saudis can do is just shut up

182 Sunlight  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:36:39pm

re: #5 Desert Dog

Well, they are going to join that exclusive club we if like it or not. The question is what will happen next? I think the US, Israel and the Europeans should start telling Iran that any kind of nuclear episode coming from Iran will result in the complete destruction of Iran....

The Iranian govt wants the "complete destruction of Iran" so that their guy will show up in the well. And all their citizens will be Martyrs. Well at least the guys. Even the mellow members of the Iranian public say that no one can try to stop Iran because anything we do from the outside will UNITE the placid Iranian public behind their mad mad govt.

183 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:36:58pm

re: #173 MandyManners

It's pdf format so it took me a few tries.

thanks, but I think I will pass, (for now) I know a bit about the subject already.

184 ornery elephant  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:12pm

What are the odds that Saudi Arabia will say No to Iran on a call for a drastic cut in OPEC oil production NOW?!

185 abaleh  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:16pm

re: #164 brookly red

do you have a url? this is not coming up.

there's a discussion of the analysis here, it gives the main points.

186 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:23pm

re: #176 Iron Fist

Holder was involved in the Waco Massacre? I must admit I missed that. I knew about his shameful kidnapping and deportation of the dreaded young Cuban Assault Child, and I knew he basically pimped Denise Rich to Bill Clinton, but I didn't know about the Waco connection.

The Republicans didn't even make a token effort at blocking him. They might as well go ahead and tattoo "Bambi's Bitch" across their collective Asses, and end any hope or speculation on our part that Obama is going to have any real opposition for at least the next two years.

google: eric holder waco assault

187 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:38pm

re: #172 Kosh's Shadow

If an Iranian-backed group detonates a nuke in the US, and 0bama does nothing, there will be crowds calling for his impeachment.
The liberals will be trying to figure out why "we deserved it", while everyone else will be close to ending 0bama's reign the same way the Italians took care of Mussolini. It would be very ugly.

And I think 0bama's advisors know it. As much as he'll want to apologize for using up a rare nuclear device, he'll have to retaliate in some way more than a strongly worded letter.

It would not get that far. I think our response would take a few minutes. The mullahs would have about 30 minutes to run for their lives. We have subs in the gulf and the Indian Ocean, so does Israel. Even a weakling like Obama would push the button.....

188 Sunlight  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:44pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

I feel better knowing the Bibi is at the helm in Israel. I have no hope™ that the United States will deal with this menace.

I mostly am hoping™ that the U.S. won't try to hold Israel down while Iran does their thing.

189 mjwsatx  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:37:50pm

Of course by declaring to the universe that we BELIEVE that Iran now has enough fissile material to produce a bomb takes all the pressure off the Obama administration to do anything about it. Well - it's too late now. We just have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran. We just need to talk to those buggers. Surely we can reason with them. And - they already have it so we can stop pressuring them NOT to refine uranium - we just need to talk these reasonable people into not making a bomb.

190 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:38:00pm

re: #176 Iron Fist

When you are a Democrat and you are involved in a FUBAR operation like Waco, Elian Gonsales, or even Ruby Ridge, not only do you not get fired, you get promoted.

191 kingkenrod  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:38:12pm

re: #182 Sunlight

The Iranian govt wants the "complete destruction of Iran" so that their guy will show up in the well. And all their citizens will be Martyrs. Well at least the guys. Even the mellow members of the Iranian public say that no one can try to stop Iran because anything we do from the outside will UNITE the placid Iranian public behind their mad mad govt.

Islam is starting to sound like some kind of gigantic suicide cult.

192 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:38:18pm

re: #180 MandyManners

Elian.

What a horrible image.

193 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:38:20pm

I keep pinching myself. I read the headline. 'A Very Very Bad Outcome'.

What are we to make of that? The world has spiraled to the point that this is a reality?

Geesh.

194 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:38:34pm

re: #189 mjwsatx

Of course by declaring to the universe that we BELIEVE that Iran now has enough fissile material to produce a bomb takes all the pressure off the Obama administration to do anything about it. Well - it's too late now. We just have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran. We just need to talk to those buggers. Surely we can reason with them. And - they already have it so we can stop pressuring them NOT to refine uranium - we just need to talk these reasonable people into not making a bomb.

Very astute.

195 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:39:11pm

re: #192 debutaunt

What a horrible image.

Look at the stark terror on his face!

196 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:39:14pm

re: #187 Desert Dog

It would not get that far. I think our response would take a few minutes. The mullahs would have about 30 minutes to run for their lives. We have subs in the gulf and the Indian Ocean, so does Israel. Even a weakling like Obama would push the button.....

Yes; 0bama would have to. Israel might anyway, although the UN would condemn them even if Tel Aviv were nuked.

197 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:40:05pm

re: #187 Desert Dog

It would not get that far. I think our response would take a few minutes. The mullahs would have about 30 minutes to run for their lives. We have subs in the gulf and the Indian Ocean, so does Israel. Even a weakling like Obama would push the button.....

50-50....don't bet your life on it bro

198 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:40:16pm

re: #195 MandyManners

Look at the stark terror on his face!

As a Mother, I have kept that image in my mind ever since I saw it.

199 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:40:31pm

re: #185 abaleh

there's a discussion of the analysis here, it gives the main points.

Thank you.

200 kingkenrod  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:40:47pm

re: #190 rawmuse

When you are a Democrat and you are involved in a FUBAR operation like Waco, Elian Gonsales, or even Ruby Ridge, not only do you not get fired, you get promoted.

With Dems, it's always intention not results that matter.

At CPAC yesterday Rush said the worse thing you can say to a liberal is to tell them that their policies are cruel - in spite of their good intetions, the results are more poverty, less freedom.

201 Sunlight  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:41:28pm

re: #34 lifeofthemind

OMG
Puhleez!
My stomach turns over!

202 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:41:43pm

The last thing we want to do is have to use nuclear weapons. Everyone in uniform that I knew and know hates the damned things.

203 looking closely  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:41:53pm

re: #160 Iron Fist

Absolutely. It is better to be feared than loved.


Put more explicitly, the best deterrent is credible threat of force.

Its the "warmongering" "crazy" "neocon" Presidents that ensure peace best.

Soft peacenik types only encourage aggressive behavior by bad actors.

204 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:41:58pm

re: #181 albusteve

the best thing the Saudis can do is just shut up

The only time they do speak is when they agree to raise oil prices at OPEC meetings.

205 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:42:22pm

re: #126 lifeofthemind

Most? most?

1) I regret even the Iranian dead
2) So how many Israeli and American dead will be OK?


No number of dead, American, Israeli, European or Iranian, is OK. If there is another 9-11- or worse- on American soil, it will be due in part to a belief by our enemies that we will not respond as we did in 2001. Chances are that Obama will respond with less deliberation than GWB did. He won't wait a month to prepare an Afghan invasion. He won't trust his military advisors. He'll go for vengeance because Rahm's focus groups will demand it and he'll feel he has to show he has the cojones. He has enough memory of history to
recall that Carter's response to the hostage taking, and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, didn't work. But he doesn't have the brains (and won't want to spend the money and political capital) to come up with a long term response.
It's going to be a bleeping tragedy.

206 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:42:54pm

re: #189 mjwsatx
The mad mullahs are NOT reasonable people. They are zealots.

207 opnion  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:43:15pm

re: #189 mjwsatx

Of course by declaring to the universe that we BELIEVE that Iran now has enough fissile material to produce a bomb takes all the pressure off the Obama administration to do anything about it. Well - it's too late now. We just have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran. We just need to talk to those buggers. Surely we can reason with them. And - they already have it so we can stop pressuring them NOT to refine uranium - we just need to talk these reasonable people into not making a bomb.

Imo, Obama probably figures that Iran needs the bomb to protect itself from the "Hyper" power US. The man has such Hubris, that he no doubt think's that the Iranians will be a reasonable group , now that he is running things.

208 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:43:40pm

re: #206 pingjockey

The mad mullahs are NOT reasonable people. They are zealots.

no Mullahs...no problem
it's simple

209 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:44:53pm

Top US film actress Annette Bening, in Iran as part of a Hollywood delegation, said on Sunday she hoped their presence in the country can help to kick-start talks between arch-foes Washington and Tehran.

The self importance Hollywood has put upon itself is sickening.
"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."
/some Hebrew writer...........

210 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:09pm

The US or Israel must stop these madmen before they have a bomb. If we do not, the death toll from the initial strike and our response or Israels will be in the millions.

211 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:10pm
212 callahan23  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #185 abaleh

there's a discussion of the analysis here, it gives the main points.

and
re: #139 Jim in Virginia

Anthony Cordesman: Iran,Israel and Nuclear War

Impressive stuff. Thanks for those links.

213 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:36pm

I think that the most effective thing that Israel could do is hold a public religious ceremony. The whole Knesset and 10,000 soldiers and equal number of civilians, very solemn, say the Kaddish.

And then state very publicly that they are praying for the souls of the Iranians because unless very specific and irrevocable steps happen the Israelis will consider the Iranians as, regrettably dead. Take as their text Mene mene tekel upharsim.

214 opnion  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:40pm

re: #208 albusteve

no Mullahs...no problem
it's simple

It was a much safer world with the Shah, but Carter took care of that.

215 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:45:47pm

re: #189 mjwsatx

Of course by declaring to the universe that we BELIEVE that Iran now has enough fissile material to produce a bomb takes all the pressure off the Obama administration to do anything about it. Well - it's too late now. We just have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran. We just need to talk to those buggers. Surely we can reason with them. And - they already have it so we can stop pressuring them NOT to refine uranium - we just need to talk these reasonable people into not making a bomb.

That would be a reasonable analysis if Iran were a reasonable country. But they are not. They have unequivocally stated on several occasions that they will annihilate the zionist entity Israel from the face of the Earth. So, no! No president can sit back with that fact looming over Israel's head.

216 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:46:10pm

re: #209 IslandLibertarian

Top US film actress Annette Bening, in Iran as part of a Hollywood delegation, said on Sunday she hoped their presence in the country can help to kick-start talks between arch-foes Washington and Tehran.

The self importance Hollywood has put upon itself is sickening.
"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."
/some Hebrew writer...........

Can't you just see her in a designer Hijab?

217 BIGDUKE 6  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:46:25pm

re: #49 Desert Dog

flush out your headgear guy. Iran will use a Nuke no doubt. They will not, however, do it conventionally. They will use a proxy delivery system thereby giving them plausible deniability.

218 So?  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:46:41pm

re: #209 IslandLibertarian

Top US film actress Annette Bening, in Iran as part of a Hollywood delegation, said on Sunday she hoped their presence in the country can help to kick-start talks between arch-foes Washington and Tehran.

The self importance Hollywood has put upon itself is sickening.
"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."
/some Hebrew writer...........

Well, when you're a washed up Hollywood actor, what else is there to do?

219 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:47:33pm

re: #208 albusteve
Heh. I've been dealing with these folks since 1980. My DD was in the battle group that launched the aborted rescue attempt. We were supposed to go visit Australia and the looney tunes took the embassy. So no Oz, go to Persian Gulf. I've been pissed at the mullahs and Carter since then.

220 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:47:54pm

re: #155 MandyManners

Waaaaaaaaaay over my pay-grade but, I'll do my best to get through it.


You need not read the whole thing. Just look at the graphics and you'll have nightmares.

221 DEZes  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:47:55pm

re: #216 debutaunt

Can't you just see her in a designer Hijab?


She was wearing one in the pic. I saw.

222 rain of lead  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:48:44pm

I knew I had seen this
UN confirms, Iran has enough nuclear material to make a bomb

223 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:49:01pm

I'll bet Neville Chamberlain, for a long while, also thought he was the smartest guy on the planet too.

224 ArmyWife  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:49:36pm

Wonder if those on the left are feeling all hopey changey now.

225 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:49:40pm

re: #221 DEZes

She was wearing one in the pic. I saw.

"It's not oppression, it's a custom."

///LLL

226 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:04pm

re: #217 BIGDUKE 6

flush out your headgear guy. Iran will use a Nuke no doubt. They will not, however, do it conventionally. They will use a proxy delivery system thereby giving them plausible deniability.

/ check Annette Bening's bags?

227 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:23pm

re: #185 abaleh

there's a discussion of the analysis here, it gives the main points.

Notice how it ends?

Cordesman concludes his chilling but dismayingly logical survey with the warning: "The only way to win is not to play."

228 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:35pm

re: #224 ArmyWife
Of course they are. The Iranians are reasonable people and would like to open a dialogue doncha know. //////

229 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:35pm

re: #216 debutaunt

Can't you just see her in a designer Hijab?

See for yourself.

230 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:43pm
231 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:51:13pm

re: #224 ArmyWife

Wonder if those on the left are feeling all hopey changey now.

Nuclear urban renewal.
Change!

/////////////////////////

232 FightingBack  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:51:33pm

re: #224 ArmyWife

Wonder if those on the left are feeling all hopey changey now.

They are. I spoke with one yesterday. She was expecting funds for her lab project.

233 rain of lead  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:51:35pm

re: #222 rain of lead

I knew I had seen this
UN confirms, Iran has enough nuclear material to make a bomb

I mean come on, if we can't trust the UN who cane we trust?
////////////

234 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:52:28pm

re: #219 pingjockey

Heh. I've been dealing with these folks since 1980. My DD was in the battle group that launched the aborted rescue attempt. We were supposed to go visit Australia and the looney tunes took the embassy. So no Oz, go to Persian Gulf. I've been pissed at the mullahs and Carter since then.

all this geo posturing is going to look pretty silly someday....inflammatory threats, nuclear devices, virgins....what bullshit...declare war and take down the Mullahs, one by one if that's all you can do...the Guard will give them up and the people will support it...Iran survives

235 bhabcy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:52:38pm

re: #140 Desert Dog

Desertdog:
The size of Israel does not allow it to absorb even one strike. It will have to hit Iran preemptively... just to survive and will be made out to be the aggressor... by the world community which lives mostly in dictatorships: Most of all of asia, Africa, and soon to be most of Latin America...
Cheers!

236 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:53:00pm

Well, who does Iran fear more, the US or Israel?. The country Iran views as being the weakest/uncommitted is the one that is going to get nuked. A whole lot of innocent people on both sides will get killed in the exchange.

237 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:53:39pm
238 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:53:41pm

Upcoming speaker series in Boston. Notice how Gore is not debating anybody. He is there alone.

'The Minds that Move the World'


March 10: Bill Maher and Ann Coulter

March 30: Former Vice President Al Gore

May 27: Charlie Rose interviewing James Carville and former Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove

June 9: Soledad O'Brien interviewing Al Sharpton, Lisa Ling and John Quinones

The series will be formatted to allow for each participant to present their thoughts on a wide range of important current events and national issues, followed by a moderated question and answer period during which the moderator can elicit additional information and insights into particularly pertinent topics of the day.

239 FightingBack  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:09pm

re: #232 FightingBack

They are. I spoke with one yesterday. She was expecting funds for her lab project.

And, I got An email from my Lefty Congresswoman. She is sending my town $20K to "train and equip" our police.

240 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:12pm

re: #223 LionOfDixon

I'll bet Neville Chamberlain, for a long while, also thought he was the smartest guy on the planet too.

Chamberlain was a smart, modest and tough man, read Churchill's Eulogy.
Chamberlain was responsible for creating the Special Operations Executive (S.O.E.)
He was modest enough to admit he was wrong and was determined to fight hard.

241 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:49pm

re: #217 BIGDUKE 6

flush out your headgear guy. Iran will use a Nuke no doubt. They will not, however, do it conventionally. They will use a proxy delivery system thereby giving them plausible deniability.

Every nuke gives off a signature. We would be able to determine the origin of any kind of burst. A dirty bomb would be much harder.

I agree with you about proxies. Hezbollah would not hesitate to wipe Israel off the map. Just as several other jihadi groups would love to vaporize New York or Washington.

This world is scary and I do not take much solace in our leadership. But, I still think even the Democrats would be crying for blood if something terrible happens.

242 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:51pm

re: #238 HelloDare

Upcoming speaker series in Boston. Notice how Gore is not debating anybody. He is there alone.

'The Minds that Move the World'

Carville and Rove, that'll be a show!

243 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:58pm

re: #234 albusteve
IIRC, Iran has a young population, majority under 35, if we could get the mullahs and the IRG the population may do the rest. But, we have to actively support them. Not the passive support we gave the Iraqis after GWI.

244 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:56:01pm

re: #211 Iron Fist

I don't know about nuking the entirety of Afghanistan.

I'm glad such decisions are not up to me.

245 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:56:02pm

re: #223 LionOfDixon

I'll bet Neville Chamberlain, for a long while, also thought he was the smartest guy on the planet too.

I've suggested that "Chamberlain" be used as Obama's middle name. And not because of the basketball player.

246 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:56:44pm

re: #241 Desert Dog

This world is scary and I do not take much solace in our leadership. But, I still think even the Democrats would be crying for blood if something terrible happens.

How long do you suppose they would support any retaliation? 30 days, 60 perhaps, surely no more than 120 days at most before it was business as usual.

247 mardukhai  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:56:46pm

Uh, guys, remember who was POTUS for the past eight years?

And who refused to allow the Israelis to overfly Iraq?

Huh?

There's enough blame to go around.

248 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:03pm

re: #243 pingjockey

IIRC, Iran has a young population, majority under 35, if we could get the mullahs and the IRG the population may do the rest. But, we have to actively support them. Not the passive support we gave the Iraqis after GWI.

There is also the internal tension between the 2500 year Persian culture and the 600 year old Islamic culture. The young people are following the Persian track, iit's something else in favor of the mullahs getting a neck tie party at some point in the future.

249 FightingBack  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:10pm

re: #245 HelloDare

I've suggested that "Chamberlain" be used as Obama's middle name. And not because of the basketball player.

What is it about "Hussein" that doesn't hit the mark?

250 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:29pm

re: #220 Jim in Virginia

You need not read the whole thing. Just look at the graphics and you'll have nightmares.

Egads. I have those already.

251 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:34pm

re: #235 bhabcy

Desertdog:
The size of Israel does not allow it to absorb even one strike. It will have to hit Iran preemptively... just to survive and will be made out to be the aggressor... by the world community which lives mostly in dictatorships: Most of all of asia, Africa, and soon to be most of Latin America...
Cheers!


Israel could survive one or two nuclear strikes. Maybe even more. A lot of innocent people (Israelis and Arabs) will die but Israel will survive.
An Israeli counterstrike will kill a lot of innocent Iranians too but the Iranian government and Persian civilization will not survive.

252 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:44pm

re: #245 HelloDare

I've suggested that "Chamberlain" be used as Obama's middle name. And not because of the basketball player.

No, his name is what it is....

253 abaleh  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:09pm

re: #241 Desert Dog

Every nuke gives off a signature. We would be able to determine the origin of any kind of burst. A dirty bomb would be much harder.

I agree with you about proxies. Hezbollah would not hesitate to wipe Israel off the map. Just as several other jihadi groups would love to vaporize New York or Washington.

This world is scary and I do not take much solace in our leadership. But, I still think even the Democrats would be crying for blood if something terrible happens.

Iran is more likely to use a nuclear weapon on Israel than is Hezbollah, seeing as Lebanon borders Israel and would therefore likely suffer from fallout, especially south Lebanon, where the majority of Shiites, Hezbollah's supporters, live.

254 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:18pm

re: #247 mardukhai
We know damnit. The whole frakkin' world has sat on its collective ass and looked the other way. Spouted platitudes and wishful thinking.

255 ArmyWife  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:22pm

re: #228 pingjockey

Right. They are all about dialogue and fellowship. Let's go ahead and get Hillary all gussied up in a hijab and send her on over for some of that. I'll pop the corn.

256 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:22pm

re: #242 jcm

Carville and Rove, that'll be a show!

Yes, there will be lots of snarling on Carville's part.

I'm not much of a fan of Coulter, but she'll make mincemeat out of Bill Maher.

257 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:34pm

re: #224 ArmyWife

Wonder if those on the left are feeling all hopey changey now.

I don't think they give a shit if Iran has a nuke.

258 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:49pm

re: #243 pingjockey

IIRC, Iran has a young population, majority under 35, if we could get the mullahs and the IRG the population may do the rest. But, we have to actively support them. Not the passive support we gave the Iraqis after GWI.

people think I'm stupid and naive....meanwhile innocents die...I see no reason not to change a paradigm when the one you have is untenable...fortune favors the bold

259 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:57pm

re: #227 Desert Dog

Notice how it ends?

Cordesman concludes his chilling but dismayingly logical survey with the warning: "The only way to win is not to play."

WOPR!

260 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:30pm

re: #248 jcm
That is one thing a lot of people forget. Iranians aren't arabs.

261 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:33pm

re: #247 mardukhai
Hey, let's talk about dogs, OK?
/

262 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:34pm

It'll be okay if we let Iran develop a bomb because 0bama set aside funds in the stimulus package for "Post Expulsion Toothpaste Receptacle Insertion Research".

/

263 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:36pm

re: #246 Perplexed

How long do you suppose they would support any retaliation? 30 days, 60 perhaps, surely no more than 120 days at most before it was business as usual.

If a nuclear bomb goes off on our country, it will never be business as usual again. Same for Israel. Even if Iran launches all they have, the Isreali counter strike capability will still exist. And, most, if not all of Iran will be gone as well.

264 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:53pm

re: #247 mardukhai

Uh, guys, remember who was POTUS for the past eight years?

And who refused to allow the Israelis to overfly Iraq?

Huh?

There's enough blame to go around.

today is a new day....

265 ArmyWife  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:00:12pm

re: #257 MandyManners

Probably not, because with Obama's gleaming smile, they won't use it against us. Right up to the point one is lobbed toward New Jersey. Then all bets are off. Maybe. Unless they can blame Bush.

266 jamgarr  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:00:24pm

If Iran has (or soon gets) a nuke - what kind of yield are we talking about? It would be a Plutonium fission bomb, correct?

267 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:00:32pm

re: #258 albusteve
Montoses' toast!

268 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:00:46pm

re: #256 HelloDare

Yes, there will be lots of snarling on Carville's part.

I'm not much of a fan of Coulter, but she'll make mincemeat out of Bill Maher.

I cannot stand Carville, I hope Rove puts him in his place...hard

269 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:01:06pm
270 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:01:31pm

Given which way the wind blows the Forces in Afghanistan should be ostentatiously practicing their MOPP procedures.

271 ArmyWife  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:01:41pm

re: #264 albusteve

You are so right. And Obama owns this, as he owns February's incredible bleeding of jobs and the markets continued downward spiral.

272 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:01:59pm

re: #269 buzzsawmonkey
Not while the mad mullahs are in charge. They want that idjit to climb out of the well.

273 FightingBack  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:02:25pm

re: #266 jamgarr

If Iran has (or soon gets) a nuke - what kind of yield are we talking about? It would be a Plutonium fission bomb, correct?

I once read an article about the US Postal Service's plan to deliver the mail after a nuclear strike. Very optimistic. I, myself, may have to call in sick that day, though.

274 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:02:33pm

re: #260 pingjockey

That is one thing a lot of people forget. Iranians aren't arabs.

It's a good way to insult a Persian, call them an Arab. While Arabs were nomads, Persians conquered the world, they know their history and are proud of it.

275 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:02:37pm

Did someone say "Chamberlain"?

Youtube Video
276 Karagush  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:03:00pm

Dunno signs point to iran using their nuke for an EMP attack not to fry a city. Maximum damage with what they got. Wed be too busy trying to get the lights on and the pump stations working. Or anyway thats what i have read/heard. Actually i find that possibility far scarier than just melting NYNY.

277 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:03:59pm

re: #240 lifeofthemind

Smart, maybe, but not smart enough. Modest? It's easy to be modest when you've lost. Tough ----not when he was dealing with Hitler, and not when it counted.

Chamberlain's philosophy of appeasment was damn dangerous, as it always is in the face of evil. Did he really think "that wily hun" would actually change his maniacal nature simply because dear Neville sipped a spot of tea with him? Chamberlain was dangerous because he was the wrong man at the wrong time with the wrong ideas....much like our dear, beloved leader, Chairman Obamao.

278 HelloDare  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:03pm

re: #268 Desert Dog

I cannot stand Carville, I hope Rove puts him in his place...hard

He always reminded me of one of those hairless cats.

279 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:06pm

re: #265 ArmyWife

Probably not, because with Obama's gleaming smile, they won't use it against us. Right up to the point one is lobbed toward New Jersey. Then all bets are off. Maybe. Unless they can blame Bush.

If they really want to strike fear into America, one going off somewhere along the Mississippi or Lake Michigan would do the trick.

280 mytralman  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:10pm

Is there an example of an Iranian Mullah who committed suicide for Islam?
Even Osama was laughing at the naivete of those hijackers who were unaware they were on a one way trip. Iranian nukes could lead to an Israeli nuclear umbrella for the Saudis and others. Iran would like to control middle east oil and so the world by threats of destruction to its neighbors, something Saddam failed to pull off thanks to GWB. Destroying Israel is not high on the agenda. Israel will make a mistake if it trys to take out Iranian reactors since it is unlikely to succeed. MADD is the better way.

281 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:23pm
282 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:26pm

re: #276 Karagush

Dunno signs point to iran using their nuke for an EMP attack not to fry a city. Maximum damage with what they got. Wed be too busy trying to get the lights on and the pump stations working. Or anyway thats what i have read/heard. Actually i find that possibility far scarier than just melting NYNY.

And they would be busy down in hell, begging the devil not to roast them in eternity after we roasted them here on earth

283 JacksonTn  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:29pm

People never learn ... this video seems fitting ...

Youtube Video
284 albusteve  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:04:54pm

re: #263 Desert Dog

If a nuclear bomb goes off on our country, it will never be business as usual again. Same for Israel. Even if Iran launches all they have, the Isreali counter strike capability will still exist. And, most, if not all of Iran will be gone as well.

letting it get far creates far more problems than a pre-emptive strike....Israel will have to do it and I believe they will

285 FrogMarch  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:05:15pm

re: #26 Bloodnok

Better a cowboy than a rodeo clown.

That be good on a bumper.

286 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:05:19pm

re: #267 pingjockey
Montroses' toast.
"He either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, who dares not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all".

287 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:15pm

re: #276 Karagush

Dunno signs point to iran using their nuke for an EMP attack not to fry a city. Maximum damage with what they got. Wed be too busy trying to get the lights on and the pump stations working. Or anyway thats what i have read/heard. Actually i find that possibility far scarier than just melting NYNY.

Doesn't an EMP require more knowledge and equipment than the Iranians have?

288 notutopia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:22pm

re: #55 monkeytime

Everyone just simma downa. There are no worries. Have you all forgotten that a group of our nations finest minds from Hollywood is in Iran as we speak?
This will all be ironed out in no time flat.

//


Here's the result of those finest Hollywood minds....

Iran Demands Hollywood Apology for 'Insulting' Movies

TEHRAN, Iran — An adviser to Iran's president on Sunday demanded an apology from a team of visiting Hollywood actors and movie industry officials, including Annette Bening, saying films such as "300" and "The Wrestler" were "insulting" to Iranians.

Without an apology, members of Iran's film industry should refuse to meet with representatives from the nine-member team, said Javad Shamaqdari, the art and cinema adviser to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

"In my viewpoint, it is a failure to have an official meeting with one who is insulting," Shamaqdari told The Associated Press.

The film "300," portrays the battle of Thermopylae in 480 B.C., in which a force of 300 Spartans held off a massive Persian army at a mountain pass in Greece for three days. It angered many Iranians for the way Persians are depicted as decadent, sexually flamb

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

289 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:23pm

re: #278 HelloDare

He always reminded me of one of those hairless cats.

wow, that does resemble him. I always thought he looked like a reptile (and acted like one too).

290 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:23pm

re: #245 HelloDare

Hussein certainly is fitting enough. So is Vichy.

291 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:39pm

re: #276 Karagush

Dunno signs point to iran using their nuke for an EMP attack not to fry a city. Maximum damage with what they got. Wed be too busy trying to get the lights on and the pump stations working. Or anyway thats what i have read/heard. Actually i find that possibility far scarier than just melting NYNY.

That is what the science peeps say... and what was in that sattelite they just launched anyway?

292 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:40pm

re: #285 FrogMarch

That be good on a bumper.

Thanks! Credit to JCM for the setup.

293 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:06:49pm
294 chicagodudewhotrades  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:07:01pm

re: #236 Perplexed


I'm going to raise a minority opinion of mine once again. If Iran gets a nuke, who says that Israel and the US would be the only 2 targets? Wouldn't Iran want to hit Saudi? They settle the Shia/Sunni split at once and remove the biggest competitor to Iranian intentions. Plus they take out the biggest member of OPEC, while jacking oil prices thru the roof. I think the drop in global crude prices has really hurt Iran more then they will admit. They need to do something to raise prices to save their government.

295 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #278 HelloDare

He always reminded me of one of those hairless cats.

Oh, spot on!

296 bhabcy  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:07:29pm

re: #231 jcm

Those on the left care more about the left than their Country. They will not admit that BHO's econ and foreign policies will ruin this country. They'll be very happy to blame RWR, GB, GWB, etc...
Cheers!

297 Karagush  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:07:44pm

re: #278 HelloDare

He always reminded me of one of those hairless cats.

I have one of those hairless cats, and she is reading this right now. She is a nice person, charming and conservative and she is very insulted. Cats are by nature conservative as they hate Change (TM) and they dont long for unicorns. They want luxury, staff and steak, care nothing for energy efficiancy... Would keep the house thermostat set at 80 degrees in the winter, if they could. How did mary matlin let him touch her, much less get married and have KIDS with that freak?

298 BGB!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:07:49pm

You guys are worrying too much. Obamas dazzling oratory skills will make them to "unclench" their fists.

299 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:08:09pm

re: #280 mytralman

Is there an example of an Iranian Mullah who committed suicide for Islam?
Even Osama was laughing at the naivete of those hijackers who were unaware they were on a one way trip. Iranian nukes could lead to an Israeli nuclear umbrella for the Saudis and others. Iran would like to control middle east oil and so the world by threats of destruction to its neighbors, something Saddam failed to pull off thanks to GWB. Destroying Israel is not high on the agenda. Israel will make a mistake if it trys to take out Iranian reactors since it is unlikely to succeed. MADD is the better way.

MAD is only effective against people who want to live.

300 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:08:24pm

re: #287 MandyManners
You get EMP from any nuke going off. You set the bomb to go off high in the atmosphere as opposed to 5000 feet. EMP will fry anything dependent on electronics to work. From toasters to main frame computers.

301 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:08:43pm

Winston Churchill's Eulogy of Neville Chamberlain
[Link: www.winstonchurchill.org...]

302 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:08:43pm
303 AreaMan  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:09:17pm

Since both Israel and Saudi Arabia are seriously threatened by an Iranian nuke, there is a good chance that the Obama administration will take military action if required. It probably won't be enough, or won't last, but it will establish street cred for anything else Obama may want to do, good or bad.

Of course, in the hands of the Mullahs, the US and Europe is threatened also. This is probably the crux of the matter.

The deeper problem is our western Islamophilia; We pay for oil when we don't really have to. This has led many Muslims to conclude that the oil was put there by God to fund the international Islamic Imperial conquest of the non-Muslim world. The total impoverishment of Iran would shut them up for a long time.

304 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:09:53pm

For almost five years I have been writing about this threat. I feel like a Cassandra. This is not a normal country, they are a clear and present danger to tens of millions of people.

Most normal people saw what happened in WWII and determined we did not ever again need such a conflagration. Even the bombs that ended the war were object lessons of why we should never again expose humanity to barbarian warlike regimes who will criminally murder millions in the name of whatever claptrap idiocy they use as justification for their totalitarian existence.

Now here we are at last. Either Iran gets the bomb and normalizes (do you really think they would ever give up their pet, Hezbollah? They build an arsenal and attack when the voices in Ahmadinejad's head say he is the Mahdi and it is time to immanentize the eschaton or Israel, fearing for her life, starts a world war by attacking Iran, and her proxies, first. The latter scenario is the only "good" outcome as it saves the most lives but don't expect people to race through the streets looking for Jews to thank if Iran mines the straits of Hormuz and starts rocketing Saudi oil installations; oil might hit $300 a barrel. None of this had to happen but Bush went soft twice, once when he handed Europe's big 3 the Iran nuclear file as a sop to Chirac's hurt feelings over the Iraq war and then again in 2006 when Iran was slaughtering our soldiers and their commander in chief forgot terror had an address.

305 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:09:57pm

re: #277 LionOfDixon

Smart, maybe, but not smart enough. Modest? It's easy to be modest when you've lost. Tough ----not when he was dealing with Hitler, and not when it counted.

Chamberlain's philosophy of appeasment was damn dangerous, as it always is in the face of evil. Did he really think "that wily hun" would actually change his maniacal nature simply because dear Neville sipped a spot of tea with him? Chamberlain was dangerous because he was the wrong man at the wrong time with the wrong ideas....much like our dear, beloved leader, Chairman Obamao.

Obama is a fraud and a hack not fit to touch Chamberlain's boots.

306 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:10:06pm

re: #298 BGB!

I've not seen you here for a while!

307 Desert Dog  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:10:40pm

re: #298 BGB!

You guys are worrying too much. Obamas dazzling oratory skills will make them to "unclench" their fists.

You're right, I feel better already.

/koolaid is yummy

308 Karagush  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:10:49pm

re: #285 FrogMarch

That be good on a bumper.

lol But These guys are known to real cowboys as "bullfighters" and considered brave brave men, and save many a cowboys life when he he comes unglued from those bulls backs in the arena.

I think they arent fit to be called rodeo clowns.

hell even poop can be used as fertilizer.
whats lower than that and is useless?
sludge?

309 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:11:02pm

Mugshot

310 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:11:15pm
311 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:11:33pm

re: #294 chicagodudewhotrades
You're stealing my theory. They test their first device in the Rub al Khali, then phone Riyadh.
Even under Obama. the US might retaliate if Iran nuked Tel Aviv. Would we or the Isreelis hit back if they nuked Dubai? "We proved we have a bomb and we're not afraid to use it. Here are our terms..."

312 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:11:40pm

re: #300 pingjockey

You get EMP from any nuke going off. You set the bomb to go off high in the atmosphere as opposed to 5000 feet. EMP will fry anything dependent on electronics to work. From toasters to main frame computers.

I know the effects. I'm wondering if they have the capability to put it high enough in the atmosphere, and how wide-spread the damage would be.

313 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:11:46pm
314 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:13:14pm

re: #250 MandyManners

Lots and lots of dead people. Destroy as little as 25% of a country's population and it will never be the same again. Too many people with specialized knowledge will be dead.

315 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:13:47pm

re: #302 Iron Fist

It is a hard decision. For a very long time, I thought Bush had the better of it. I thought we could always go back and nuke them if the more humane route becaim unsustainable, but I was wrong. We had the one chance to set this whole thing on its side and let the foulness seep out onto the ground.

When we didn't do it in response to a provokation that damn near everyone on the Planet condemned, we lost the window to prove that we really would stand behind our bluster. As is, if we face a resurgant Russia, we will also face a Russia that is not necessarily convinced that we would back up the MAD doctrine, especially if they just invade Western Europe, and hold their nukes as a check on our hand.

Not fighting a nuclear war then (and it would not necessarily had to be a complete destruction of the nation. I lean towards the 21st Century Carthage example, but we could have used low yield tactical eapons in, say , Tora Bora and still sent the message that we will pull that trigger) means that the countries watching us need no longer believe that we'd go nuclear on them now.

The reduction of the belief that we will use such weapons reduces their deterrent value in a similar circumstance. We will take a major mass-causualty terrorist attack and have thousands of our citizens killed and not rain death and destruction over all of their nation in retaliation.

I imagine that Iran feels much safer knowing that.

Well, you initially said we should've nuked every major city in Afghanistan IIRC. *That*is what bothered me. OTOH, pounding the shit out of Tora Bora would've done what you think it would've accomplished. However, the flak would've been outstanding.

316 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:13:50pm

re: #312 MandyManners
Well, they put up a sattelite. Granted hooking a weapon to a rocket and getting it to work is a larger problem, but since they've proved they can orbit a sattelite, getting a nuke payload onboard is over halfway there.

317 notutopia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:14:18pm

re: #313 Iron Fist

I thought that you had to use a thermonuclear device of considerable size to get the EMP effect. I know that the smaller Hiroshima and Nagasaki sized weapons don't produce EMP to the extent that it can be considered part of the weapon's overall effects.

Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
[Link: www.fas.org...]

318 Karagush  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:14:55pm

re: #312 MandyManners

I know the effects. I'm wondering if they have the capability to put it high enough in the atmosphere, and how wide-spread the damage would be.

thats why they are working on those high atmosphere launches, some speculate.

319 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:15:04pm

re: #301 lifeofthemind

What was he supposed to say?......"Here lies Neville Chamberlain, who knuckled under to Hitler......." I think not.

320 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:15:40pm

re: #313 Iron Fist

I thought that you had to use a thermonuclear device of considerable size to get the EMP effect. I know that the smaller Hiroshima and Nagasaki sized weapons don't produce EMP to the extent that it can be considered part of the weapon's overall effects.

Why do you say that? There were no solid state circuits to be damaged in 1945.

Unfortunately Congress stopped the development of the ERD bomb that would have been perfect for eliminating a hostile regime while sparring the civilian population.

321 BGB!  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:16:09pm

re: #306 MandyManners

I've not seen you here for a while!

Hey there Mandy! Indeed, its been a long while. I hope that youve been blessed and that all is well in your world. Havent been posting like I used too but Im lurking daily ;)

322 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:16:13pm

re: #211 Iron Fist


There is one problem with nuking Afghanistan back into the stone age-
They're not so far advanced from it.

323 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:16:26pm

re: #319 LionOfDixon
Great nickname you have there.

324 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:16:31pm
325 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:16:33pm

re: #313 Iron Fist
We really don't know about the EMP affects of the older bombs because there weren't any or few electronics to be affected. Have you read the "Sum of all Fears"? Tom Clancy book. scenario is damn scary. Plus didn't Pakistans father of their bomb give the Iranians his nuclear blueprints?

326 Max Darkside  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:17:28pm

I'm waiting for Russia to say, "If you pre-emptively attack Iran, we will launch", since Iran seems to be Russian buddies. I doubt that good of buddies, but the possibility of Russia somehow protecting Iran is possible, yes? AP headlines seems to support the concept; "Mideast peace, Russian ties next up for Clinton (AP)"

327 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:17:42pm

re: #314 Perplexed

Lots and lots of dead people. Destroy as little as 25% of a country's population and it will never be the same again. Too many people with specialized knowledge will be dead.

Aren't those people here spread out all over the nation?

328 lifeofthemind  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:17:52pm

re: #319 LionOfDixon

What was he supposed to say?......"Here lies Neville Chamberlain, who knuckled under to Hitler......." I think not.

You have no concept of what is worth fighting for I am done with you.

GAZE

329 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:18:06pm
330 MandyManners  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:18:26pm

bbiab

331 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:19:15pm

re: #139 Jim in Virginia

Just finished reading that. Scary as hell.

332 Dustyvet  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:19:54pm

American Journalist Arrested In Iran

[Link: www.npr.org...]

333 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:20:42pm

re: #294 chicagodudewhotrades

I'm going to raise a minority opinion of mine once again. If Iran gets a nuke, who says that Israel and the US would be the only 2 targets? Wouldn't Iran want to hit Saudi? They settle the Shia/Sunni split at once and remove the biggest competitor to Iranian intentions. Plus they take out the biggest member of OPEC, while jacking oil prices thru the roof. I think the drop in global crude prices has really hurt Iran more then they will admit. They need to do something to raise prices to save their government.

Interesting. So who does Iran hate enough to nuke? The casualties would be in the tens of millions and possible much more if preemptive strikes get launched.

334 chicagodudewhotrades  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:20:58pm

re: #311 Jim in Virginia


LOL. sorry for 'stealing'. I think mine/your/our idea is a possibility, but it doesn't get enough attention. I'm also worried about a Iranian conventional move against Bahrain. This would either be a outright invasion using their nukes as a cover against any retaliation or some type Iran-backed coup against the Bahrain government

335 jorline  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:21:17pm

re: #288 notutopia

Sean Penn, Danny Glover and Susan Sarandon are make the trip to apologize personally for Hollywood in Penn's little tin boat.

Cynthia McKinney was invited, but respectfully declined.
**Warning Moonbat**

336 Syrah  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:21:26pm

re: #332 Dustyvet

American Journalist Arrested In Iran

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Hostage.

337 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:22:15pm

re: #318 Karagush

thats why they are working on those high atmosphere launches, some speculate.

You know, it just occurred to me, what would happen if Israel EMPed Iran?
No body dies, (yet) and their nuke program is toast... they do have the technology, it could happen.

338 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:24:12pm

re: #327 MandyManners

Aren't those people here spread out all over the nation?

Mostly concentrated in the larger cities. Think jobs and where those jobs are located. There aren't too many highly specialized jobs found up in the remote mountains.

339 notutopia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:24:14pm

OT Really Cool!
Mass Extinction Timeline

[Link: dsc.discovery.com...]

340 LionOfDixon  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:24:17pm

re: #328 lifeofthemind

Imagine that....being told off by the Neville Chamberlain lobby. I can't wait for the Eddie Slovak apologists to start cropping up.

341 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:28:23pm

re: #221 DEZes

She was wearing one in the pic. I saw.

These people have no idea what that kind of stuff actually represents.

342 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:29:54pm
343 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:29:59pm

re: #317 notutopia

Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
[Link: www.fas.org...]

Iran was practicing launching missiles off boats in the Caspian Sea. They have the knowledge to sea launch a missile on a depressed trajectory and get that down.

What remains, and is a big hurdle is get a small enough warhead that their missiles could carry.

344 debutaunt  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:30:23pm

re: #229 IslandLibertarian

See for yourself.

The next step is a lovely light blue burka.

345 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:32:43pm
346 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:33:10pm
347 aaron  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:34:13pm
You know, it just occurred to me, what would happen if Israel EMPed Iran?


1 megaton high altitude blast over Iran would do the trick. Last thing broadcast over Iranian TV and radio should be a rendition of Hatikvah...

348 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:36:10pm

Obama will just offer them a trillion dollars not to nuke us. That seems to be his whole approach to everything-spend lots of money.

349 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #215 So?

That would be a reasonable analysis if Iran were a reasonable country. But they are not. They have unequivocally stated on several occasions that they will annihilate the zionist entity Israel from the face of the Earth. So, no! No president can sit back with that fact looming over Israel's head.


I agree with you, So?

Dinnerjacket is not a reasonable man, he is a nutjob. He is on record stating that for the 12th iman in whom he believes to return there needs to ne chaos. He is quite happy to pre-empt that chaos if it brings about this return.

He will know that Israel is threatened by Iran's nuclear capability and will know that Israel will carry out a pre-emptive strike. Therefore he will use any nuke as soon as he can to try to gain an advantage.

No one is going to reason with guy. He is a bloody dangerous individual.

350 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:40:05pm
351 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:41:18pm
352 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:44:34pm
353 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:46:28pm

re: #347 aaron

1 megaton high altitude blast over Iran would do the trick. Last thing broadcast over Iranian TV and radio should be a rendition of Hatikvah...

Yeah, or maybe 4 or 5 1K yields, spread around, but yes I think that would do quite nicely... & if I thought of it surely they have too.

354 aaron  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:51:40pm

re: #353 brookly red

& if I thought of it surely they have too.

Indeed. It's getting close enough to game time that I am disinclined to speculate much about ways to hit Iran - I might just guess correctly, and I'd hate to spoil the surprise.

355 Macker  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:52:17pm

re: #350 Iron Fist

I've read "Sum of All Fears". That was a low yield device, and they didn't, IIRC have any EMP effects. And IIRC, you are correct that AQ Khan did give his plans to the Iranians. I'd say that they will be able to build fission weapons that are reliable enough to use as a weapon. It is my understanding, though, that it is a major technological leap to build fusion weapons from the fission weapons. To my knowledge, Pakistan doesn't have fusion weapons. That is a small comfort, butit is really the only one I've got.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Russians helped Iran & Pocky-stawn with this particular technology.
Even so, fission weapons do have an upper limit, which is accomplished by spiking a device with tritium.

356 capitalist piglet  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:52:25pm

re: #90 LionOfDixon

I bet they're already hand-stitching a special hijab for Michelle.

Who says there's no good news?

357 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:53:41pm

re: #354 aaron

Indeed. It's getting close enough to game time that I am disinclined to speculate much about ways to hit Iran - I might just guess correctly, and I'd hate to spoil the surprise.

yes, of course you are right.

358 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:54:05pm

I'd argue that we only need to use nukes in very rare cases. We don;t need to. We can precisely deliver large numbers of high explosive devices that are able to penetrate concrete bunkers, from over a thousand miles away. We can target specific government and military installations and destroy them with very low collateral damage.
We are not like the terrorists. We don't send 19 year old kids on buses to blow up infants and elderly women. We recognize civilians and try not to kill them. We went to Afghanistan and Iraq not for vengeance but to prevent more acts of terror.
That said- yes, I can imagine cases where we would be justified in using nukes. I hope it never happens.

359 capitalist piglet  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:55:30pm

re: #356 capitalist piglet

re: #90 LionOfDixon

I bet they're already hand-stitching a special hijab for Michelle.

Who says there's no good news?

Oops. Thought you said burka. My shopping chops at Cover That S__t Up R Us are down.

360 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:55:57pm

Hmmmm.......

FBI Raids University of Florida Nuclear Institute

Agents spent several hours searching the institute and the office of the institute’s director, Samim Anghaie.

[snip]

“When you throw together all those elements, words like ‘Iranian’ and ‘nuclear’ and ‘FBI,’ people get kind of worked up about it,” Orlando said. “I don’t think it’s nearly as sexy as people would guess from all those elements.”
361 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:57:15pm

re: #349 A Kiwi Infidel

I agree with you, So?

Dinnerjacket is not a reasonable man, he is a nutjob. He is on record stating that for the 12th iman in whom he believes to return there needs to ne chaos. He is quite happy to pre-empt that chaos if it brings about this return.

He will know that Israel is threatened by Iran's nuclear capability and will know that Israel will carry out a pre-emptive strike. Therefore he will use any nuke as soon as he can to try to gain an advantage.

No one is going to reason with guy. He is a bloody dangerous individual.

Damned if you do/don't Eretz Israel. . .bomb it and watch the condemnations soar. . .more than they already have

don't bomb and watch your people die. . .

I am guessing that those in Israel have seen the writing ont he wall vis a vis the new world disorder in America, Hillary being the final "straw"

Wonder if the complete shit strom that has been my life these past 6 months is a sign to make aaliya. . .

362 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:57:45pm
363 Empire1  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:01:20pm

re: #308 Karagush

hell even poop can be used as fertilizer.
whats lower than that and is useless?
sludge?

Sorry, but pond sludge is excellent fertilizer, and therefore useful.

364 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:01:58pm

re: #362 Iron Fist

Johnston Island and it was the first nuclear weapon detonated in outer space. The EMP messed up the telephones and power distribution in Hawaii. Had a buddy who was on Johnston Island for that event.

365 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:02:04pm

About this question

366 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:03:26pm

re: #362 Iron Fist

It is my understanding that EMP was discovered by an above-ground test in the Pacific somewhere. It was an unexpected phenomonea, an accident, really. If a significant magnetic pulse had been part of the results of smaller, non-thermonuclear weapons, I would have thought that the effects would have noticed. The military had some kinds of electronic hardware even during the Second World War. I would have thought that it would have been noticed before it was.

It took a while before we did a real air burst. The EMP pulse is pure energy, close to the ground the energy quickly converts to blast wave and physical damage, even air absorbs the energy and converts it to shock wave.

At altitude the energy survives long enough as energy to propagate as a electro magnetic pulse. Low altitude detonations don't produce a huge EMP.

367 brookly red  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:08:39pm

re: #360 jcm

Hmmmm.......

FBI Raids University of Florida Nuclear Institute

“He is one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met,” the student said.
/ that's all I needed to hear...

368 aaron  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:14:03pm
Starfish Prime was successful. The Thor missile carried the test instrumentation and the W-49 warhead/Mk-4 RV payload to 248 miles. The test appeared quite spectacular from Hawaii (800 miles away) and at Kwajalein (1600 miles away), with impressive light displays from an artifical aurora lasting up to seven minutes. The electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from this test sent power line surges throughout Oahu, knocking out street lighting, blowing fuzes and circuit breakers, and triggering burglar alarms.

Source: [Link: nuclearweaponarchive.org...]

And for a story of what _not_ to do when testing a nuclear weapon, see:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

369 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:17:27pm

re: #368 aaron

Source: [Link: nuclearweaponarchive.org...]

And for a story of what _not_ to do when testing a nuclear weapon, see:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

We did lots of whacko things in the early nuclear age.

370 avanti  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:20:09pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Koskidz don't believe it....
The latest "nuclear threat" has my BS detector swinging wild.

The money quote from link is they are 2-3 years from a bomb, even then it would be a crude device that would have to be delivered by air. Israel and the US know they have time before risking another war. Time that can be used to deal with the north Korean and Pakistani threat.

371 jcm  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:23:28pm

re: #370 avanti

The money quote from link is they are 2-3 years from a bomb, even then it would be a crude device that would have to be delivered by air. Israel and the US know they have time before risking another war. Time that can be used to deal with the north Korean and Pakistani threat.

I certainly hope we have a few years to deal with a nuclear Iran.

I rather err on the side of believe they have a bomb earlier and take action sooner.

Than wait till they have a bomb, and start making demands, before we take action.

Note, I think action will be necessary. Talk will not work with the Mad Mullahs.

372 avanti  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:29:29pm

re: #371 jcm

I certainly hope we have a few years to deal with a nuclear Iran.

I rather err on the side of believe they have a bomb earlier and take action sooner.

Than wait till they have a bomb, and start making demands, before we take action.

Note, I think action will be necessary. Talk will not work with the Mad Mullahs.

I hope you are wrong, I am a little war weary after being in two already. Maybe we can find another world cop for that one.

373 Colonel Panik  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:37:51pm

#362 Iron Fist

It is my understanding that EMP was discovered by an above-ground test in the Pacific somewhere. It was an unexpected phenomonea, an accident, really. If a significant magnetic pulse had been part of the results of smaller, non-thermonuclear weapons, I would have thought that the effects would have noticed. The military had some kinds of electronic hardware even during the Second World War. I would have thought that it would have been noticed before it was.

Starfish prime. 1.4Mt exoatmospheric test 250 miles over Johnston island.

374 Karagush  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:39:21pm

re: #353 brookly red

Yeah, or maybe 4 or 5 1K yields, spread around, but yes I think that would do quite nicely... & if I thought of it surely they have too.

you know that just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. its bad, but not as bad as melting Tehran. Now you can be sure their facilities are hardened. (Many of ours are.) But really its an elegant solution. And it would get rid of all that nasty pollution cuz nothing would work!
Thats an attack even the enviros could be pleased with...
...wait. nothing pleases them.
(sigh)

375 aaron  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:39:47pm

re: #370 avanti

The money quote from link is they are 2-3 years from a bomb...

US intelligence estimates regarding the pace at which other countries have developed or are developing nuclear weapons have not ever, to the best of my knowledge, been correct.

376 Kenneth  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:33:49pm

re: #362 Iron Fist

It is my understanding that EMP was discovered by an above-ground test in the Pacific somewhere. It was an unexpected phenomonea, an accident, really. If a significant magnetic pulse had been part of the results of smaller, non-thermonuclear weapons, I would have thought that the effects would have noticed. The military had some kinds of electronic hardware even during the Second World War. I would have thought that it would have been noticed before it was.

Conventional explosoves don't produce an EMP. The nature of a nuclear explosion creates a pulse of electromagnetic energy in high energy frequencies. Chemical explosions, no matter how big do not produce the hight frequency electromagnetic pulse.

377 RayJ  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:28:16pm

Nuclear weapons have been used twice in actual combat,
Since then they have only been used as political weapons.
But they are powerful in that role.
I don't know whether Iran actually intends to use any nuclear it acquires in anger. My guess is that they probably wont, but I could be wrong.
Even if Iran doesn't detonate its weapons, it can use them to dramatically shift the balance of power in the Mideast. The simple possession of these weapons would guarantee Iran a much freer hand. It would radically increase its influence in Iraq, negating everything the US has accomplished there. Fewer nations would ally themselves with the US out of fear of Iran. American security guarantees would become meaningless as no one would trust the US to hazard its own cities in order to protect its allies. Iran could hold the entire Mideastern oil production hostage. Iran could ratchet up terrorist activities without real fear of reprisal.

Few people understand that with nuclear weapons, Iran could directly challenge America's military might. Remember, Iran has a considerable chemical weapon stockpile, while America has disposed of its chemical weapons. The US cannot credibly threaten nuclear retaliation against Iran if they use their chemical weapons against the US. In a contest between an Iranian military that has chemical weapons and an American military that doesn't, America will have a far smaller advantage. Not that America would lose, but America would suffer far higher casualties winning.

The accumulative effect of all this is making the cost of protecting Israel far higher than America (under Obama) is willing to pay. Israel would be alone.

The point is that if Iran possesses nuclear weapons, it does not actually have to detonate them in order to use them.
On the other hand, they're fucking nuts.

378 Perplexed  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:15:57pm

re: #373 Colonel Panik

#362 Iron Fist

Starfish prime. 1.4Mt exoatmospheric test 250 miles over Johnston island.

My buddy was there during that test. He said they were issued goggles so dark that you could put them on and stare at the sun and not see anything. A few minutes before the bomb was detonated they were told to put on their goggles and stand facing away from where the bomb was to be detonated. This they did and shortly thereafter the bomb went off. The flash from the bomb lit up everything so well that he said that he could see everything even wearing the goggles. He also said that he felt a wave of heat wash over him and his reaction was "oh shit, they detonated the bomb too low." After the bomb went off everyone removed their goggles and he was amazed at the after glow of the detonation.

The Soviets were afraid we knew about EMP and would use it against them and we were afraid the Soviets knew about EMP and would use it against them. MAD for sure.

379 Clubsec  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:46:45pm

To an answers Jorline's question (#96)
Isreal has a system called Arrow that was developed with DARPA IRAD $$ that is based upon Patriot PACIII technology. It is NOT a midrange system as is our EKV ... so it is limited in capability. I will however if given a timely que effectively intercept ANY TBM in the Iranian inventory.
I suspect that RSO or other Pentagon sensor platforms will offer the Isrealis enough of a warning to engage any ballistic offerings from Iran.
We shall see.
Of course this 'warning' might be fumblefu*ked by the POTUS or State Department and we'll see a local Armagedon in the ME.
I only trust that our amature POTUS-in-training (ObamUH) will keep a Boomer in the vicinity and allow the crew of say the Michigan or Ohio to turn Iran into a smoking crater, .... if necessary. And ...
World peace will most certainly follow.

380 shane  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 9:07:58pm

Wow. In 1942 we got together the greatest scientist, and in less than 3 years put together enough fissle material for two nuclear weapons. And now, only a mere 60 years later, we think the Iranians with superior equipment and computing power might have enough for a weapon. What a shocker. They have enough, my guess for maybe a few possibly half a dozen. I spent 20 years in nuclear power, I can't bring myself to believe that they haven't had it for several years now. Anyone who questions whether or not they have nuclear material for a bomb I would ask WHY? Why do you believe they don't? How could you believe they don't? It ain't that hard.

381 mrkwong  Mon, Mar 2, 2009 4:19:24pm

shane - problem is they were all Jews and commies.

Well, not all.

At any rate, our institutions of higher learning have been taking enough Arab dollars for the past two decades that by now there's certainly enough engineers with Islamic sympathies somewhere to be willing to do a big firecracker for the Islamic Republic.


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