Social conservatives are up in arms about RNC chairman Michael Steele’s less than pure opposition to abortion, and calling for his job. Allahpundit puts up a poll: Is it time for Steele to go?
I’m curious to see how LGF readers feel on the subject, so here’s our own poll:
3 |
pat Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:28:54am |
I have met Steele a couple of times. i like him a lot.
| 6 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:22am |
I voted for booting him out based on his lack of reaction to that idiot on CNN taking pot shots at the GOP.
| 7 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:23am |
This sucks. New thread and I have to go shopping on my lunch hour (wife is sick and tired of me owning one pair of jeans)
| 8 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:31am |
My feeling is he should stay because now is the time for those outside the social-con circle to stand up and let them know they're going to have to deal with pro-choice republicans in this party. F*ck the litmus test.
| 10 |
nyc redneck Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:44am |
i voted to give him another chance.
i do like the guy.
but he is going to have to show some strength and confidence,
immediately.
or he will be out.
| 11 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:49am |
With the Libtards pretty much in charge of everything out there, this is a target rich environment. We don't need to be wasting ammunition shooting at ourselves.
| 12 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:29:54am |
Without commenting on what ever his Abortion position is, so far, he is making the case himself that he is not up to the job. And I kinda liked him before.
| 13 |
Kragar Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:30:57am |
I'm pro-life, but I'm tired of it being a litmus test as the deciding factor for political leadership. We have enough other problems to deal with.
| 14 |
red satellite Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:30:57am |
If Michael will quit trying to be liked by the liberals, he should be fine. If he heads down the path of providing a milquetoast RINO response to every critical issue of our time- he won't be milquetoast, he'll be toast.
| 15 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:31:19am |
I commented on the American Thinker article on this yesterday.
The in fighting and lack of support does not bode well for the GOP.
Leave trash talk to the MSM.
| 16 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:31:22am |
Contact information for the party leadership. Perhaps Mr Steele would like to know he has people who want to see him do well in his corner.
| 18 |
Ringo the Gringo Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:31:59am |
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
| 20 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:33:18am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
If that happens, this country is in big trouble.
The "progressives" are dancing in glee.
| 21 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:33:24am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
On second thought, Steele's okay. He just needs to grow a backbone.
| 22 |
Ceemack Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:33:50am |
Abortion positions aside, he's made a complete fool of himself since taking over. First the business with Rush, then his misstep on abortion--even you're not in favor of a Constitutional amendment banning abortion (and I'm not), the de jure leader of the Republican party should be able talk about abortion without throwing half the party under the bus.
He's simply not up to the job.
| 23 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:33:59am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
The majority of Hot Air readers want to ditch him. I think he's toast.
| 25 |
red satellite Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:34:29am |
re: #6 MandyManners
Mandy, I agree. But in honor of the 3 strikes law, he's got 1 more with me.
| 26 |
debutaunt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:34:32am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
You can represent some of the people some of the time...
| 27 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:34:32am |
And then you can just see the Daily Kos spin if Steele left:
"GOP throws Negros under the bus"
| 28 |
obscured by clouds Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:34:42am |
I'm a Republican who's not stridently anti-abortion. I'm a foreign policy/fiscal conservative. Having said that, I don't think someone who calls Rush Limbaugh's show "incendiary and ugly," who believes the Republican party should reach out to the hip-hop community, and lastly, is pro-choice, would be a good fit to head the RNC. I liked the Steele pick initially but now I'm having second thoughts.
| 29 |
Oxnuts Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:34:56am |
Definitely the wrong time to be making changes like this. Also, I didnt think what he said was all that bad. Many people view the pro-life movement to be heavily influenced by religious beliefs. Personally, I am an independent who leans right. I would like to see the Republican party become more of a fiscal conservative than a social conservative party. I think there are a lot of undecided/unaffiliated voters out there who get turned off by the religiously influenced ideals that the Republicans seem to embrace so heavily.
| 30 |
doppelganglander Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:10am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
Lordy, if that's the alternative, make Steele Chairman for Life.
| 31 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:25am |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The majority of Hot Air readers want to ditch him. I think he's toast.
He should be. Just more of the "same-old."
| 32 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:30am |
| 33 |
Opinionated Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:47am |
Any Republican leader who is terrified of upsetting the uncompromising SoCon purists is going to do more harm then good in the long run.
That being said, Steele is not up to the required job. Few are. One who would be perfect- but likely doesn't want the job- is Newt.
| 34 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:48am |
re: #17 ploome hineni
They sure have learned to talk the talk, eh?
| 35 |
NonNativeTexan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:35:49am |
He just needs to stop going on the talk shows and start building
the party mechanisms and structure that it needs to support its
candidates, raise money, and win elections.
| 36 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:36:15am |
Steele has to start understanding what his new duties are. He is not really there to articulate His personal positions, but that of the Party. And most important, he has to start being consistent. And as a Party we had better get our ducks in a row and address some of these issues like Abortion, Evolution, Religion in American life.
| 37 |
soxfan4life Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:36:32am |
re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm pro-life, but I'm tired of it being a litmus test as the deciding factor for political leadership. We have enough other problems to deal with.
Never quite understood why the Republicans grasped onto this. Roe V Wade is the law of the land, and even if the SCOTUS overturns it no state will. With the problems facing us as a nation Abortion ranks about 150 on a scale of 1 to 10. I can't wait for the day when pro-life vs pro-choice is our most pressing concern.
| 38 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:36:44am |
re: #28 obscured by clouds
I'm a Republican who's not stridently anti-abortion. I'm a foreign policy/fiscal conservative. Having said that, I don't think someone who calls Rush Limbaugh's show "incendiary and ugly," who believes the Republican party should reach out to the hip-hop community, and lastly, is pro-choice, would be a good fit to head the RNC. I liked the Steele pick initially but now I'm having second thoughts.
I am into some hip hop and I am a Republican. Hell maybe I should go.
| 39 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:37:02am |
I did a litmus test on Michael Steele and it turns out his pH stands for Politically Hogtied.
| 40 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:37:29am |
re: #25 red satellite
Mandy, I agree. But in honor of the 3 strikes law, he's got 1 more with me.
CNN, Rush and abortion.
But, in light of what Ringo suggested in No. 18, I'll give him more chance.
| 41 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:37:40am |
Great time to paint a nice big alternative target, GOP.
| 42 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:37:54am |
The problem with Steele stepping down is that the Bible thumpers will start shrieking "Victory!" and you can pretty much kiss the GOP goodbye permanently once that happens. Their next move will be to ram someone into the position who holds a flaming sword, a Bible and an agenda aimed at forcible Christianization of America. The party will complete it's transformation into America's version of the Taliban, and will go down in smoking ruin.
Has anyone checked to see if Huckabee is taking money from Soros? Because it sure seems that way.
| 43 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:37:57am |
re: #29 Oxnuts
Definitely the wrong time to be making changes like this. Also, I didnt think what he said was all that bad. Many people view the pro-life movement to be heavily influenced by religious beliefs. Personally, I am an independent who leans right. I would like to see the Republican party become more of a fiscal conservative than a social conservative party. I think there are a lot of undecided/unaffiliated voters out there who get turned off by the religiously influenced ideals that the Republicans seem to embrace so heavily.
Boy, you're all over the board with this. You say it's the "wrong time to make changes" but at the same time you say you'd like to see "the republican party become more of a fiscal conservative than a social conservative party."
Which is it, wrong time to make changes or you want changes?
You're confusing me.
| 45 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:38:11am |
re: #37 soxfan4life
I can't wait for the day when pro-life vs pro-choice is our most pressing concern.
You and me both.
| 46 |
obscured by clouds Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:38:18am |
re: #18 Ringo the Gringo
If they get rid of Steele we will wind up with someone like Huckabee....and I'll have to quit the party altogether.
Huckabee gives me the creeps. I'd be content with a legion of Steeles to run the RNC before I'd approve a single Huckabee. My favorite up-and-coming Republican may be Senator Mike Pence from Indiana.
| 47 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:38:19am |
| 48 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:38:44am |
I like Steele, but I don't think he's up to the job. How about Ken Blackwell?
| 49 |
doppelganglander Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:10am |
re: #28 obscured by clouds
I'm a Republican who's not stridently anti-abortion. I'm a foreign policy/fiscal conservative. Having said that, I don't think someone who calls Rush Limbaugh's show "incendiary and ugly," who believes the Republican party should reach out to the hip-hop community, and lastly, is pro-choice, would be a good fit to head the RNC. I liked the Steele pick initially but now I'm having second thoughts.
But is he really pro-choice, or did he just say something very awkwardly? I was very surprised at his statement because he's always been very vocally pro-life. He was an adopted child, and I took his comment as a rather mangled way of saying he's glad his mother made the choice of putting him up for adoption. Or maybe I just took it that way because I'm also adopted and feel the same way.
| 50 |
SFGoth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:12am |
Let's see the putative GOP platform for 2010: abortion, gays, guns, increased social spending on "family values"-related stuff, freedom to teach creationism, and GOP-district pork. Yeah, that'll get rid of Pelosi as speaker.
| 52 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:34am |
It's early enough still to make a change. Imagine if this was March of next year.
| 53 |
wrenchwench Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:41am |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The majority of Hot Air readers want to ditch him. I think he's toast.
There are four ways to vote "no," and only one way to vote "yeah, can him." If you add the four noes you get 57% to 43% "can him." That's with 4,879 votes cast.
| 54 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:42am |
re: #48 Ward Cleaver
Does he have a rural accent? Republicans love accents.
| 55 |
Czarny_Smok Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:39:59am |
So far, the GOP, as a party, needs to pull their collective heads out of their asses. The responses to the ongoing issues have be luke warm at best, and completely non-productive. As previously stated, we are being handed absolutely golden opportunities to show how badly the liberals are mismanaging our country and all these opportunities are being wasted by infighting and shear unmitigated stupidity. I'm reminded of just how screwed up the campaign was, and the fact that the only bright spot was Ms. Palin. How many times do we need to shoot ourselves in the foot before we notice it hurts? As soon as the GOP can get it's act together, I will consider supporting them again. Right now, I'm completely underwhelmed by their efforts.
| 56 |
Ringo the Gringo Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:40:04am |
Maybe it is time for a centrist party based on fiscal responsibility, low taxes, small government, strong national defense and states rights....all the things Republicans used to be about.
| 57 |
opnion Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:40:07am |
re: #6 MandyManners
I voted for booting him out based on his lack of reaction to that idiot on CNN taking pot shots at the GOP.
That was a very not funny comediane, DL Hugley.
When he compared the Republican Convention to a Nazi Rally, Steele should have verbally slapped the snot out of him.
If Steele is not willing to fight back & then he should confine his activities to fund raising.
Ari Fliesher slapped Chris Matthews silly.
| 59 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:40:19am |
| 60 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:40:38am |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The majority of Hot Air readers want to ditch him. I think he's toast.
I think it was like 48% to keep him, 43% for him to go...
| 62 |
Anthony (Los Angeles) Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:40:48am |
I voted to give him a chance, but he's on a short rope with me. The failure to smack-down Hughley over the comparison of CPAC to a Nazi Party convention and Steele's failure so far to staff the RNC (there's almost no one left) are both pretty bad.
| 63 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:41:19am |
re: #53 wrenchwench
Good point. I just looked at the extremes. The comments there aren't very friendly to Steele last time I checked.
| 64 |
badger1 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:41:25am |
This is absurd. We haven't even given this guy time to hire staff or assemble a team and he should be thrown out? Give him a break, for crying out loud.
Republicans are in danger of pulling a classic democrat maneuver; the circular firing squad.
It is truly mind-boggling.
| 65 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:41:42am |
obambi is learning the presidency, let steele learn the RNC.
sigh.
| 66 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:41:50am |
re: #48 Ward Cleaver
I like Steele, but I don't think he's up to the job. How about Ken Blackwell?
See this is the thing. The DEMS can back this empty ass suit Obama and his three ring circus administration. Now here we are the GOP and Steele says some stupid things and suddenly we are all about reprimanding the guy rather than fighting the ones who are really our enemies on the outside. Excuse the pun but the family that preys together, stays together.
| 68 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:17am |
re: #21 MandyManners
On second thought, Steele's okay. He just needs to grow a backbone.
I would agree with this statement. The most disturbing thing he's done during this flap is to try and walk back his original statement. I'd rather have him say, "This is what I believe," and stick to it, rather than appearing to pander to the religious kook wing of the party.
| 69 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:18am |
re: #62 Anthony (Los Angeles)
I voted to give him a chance, but he's on a short rope with me. The failure to smack-down Hughley over the comparison of CPAC to a Nazi Party convention and Steele's failure so far to staff the RNC (there's almost no one left) are both pretty bad.
And the Rush stuff.
| 70 |
doppelganglander Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:18am |
re: #37 soxfan4life
Never quite understood why the Republicans grasped onto this. Roe V Wade is the law of the land, and even if the SCOTUS overturns it no state will. With the problems facing us as a nation Abortion ranks about 150 on a scale of 1 to 10. I can't wait for the day when pro-life vs pro-choice is our most pressing concern.
I'm not sure either, but it may have something to do with the fact that since the 1970s pro-lifers have been highly organized, passionate, and dedicated to their issue. If you can bring people like that on board and get them to show the same dedication to your candidates, that's very valuable. But I agree with you, it is way down the scale of issues for me.
| 71 |
Ringo the Gringo Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:32am |
re: #46 obscured by clouds
Huckabee gives me the creeps. I'd be content with a legion of Steeles to run the RNC before I'd approve a single Huckabee. My favorite up-and-coming Republican may be Senator Mike Pence from Indiana.
I kind of like Thaddeus McCotter from Michigan.
| 72 |
Last Mohican Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:33am |
re: #37 soxfan4life
I can't wait for the day when pro-life vs pro-choice is our most pressing concern.
Well said. It will be a wonderful day in America if and when my feelings about abortion start to influence how I cast my vote.
| 73 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:34am |
dump him and offer Rush the job....lib brain matter will fall like rain
| 74 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:48am |
re: #57 opnion
That was a very not funny comediane, DL Hugley.
When he compared the Republican Convention to a Nazi Rally, Steele should have verbally slapped the snot out of him.
If Steele is not willing to fight back & then he should confine his activities to fund raising.
Ari Fliesher slapped Chris Matthews silly.
It left me gasping with anger.
| 75 |
Oxnuts Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:52am |
re: #43 Walter L. Newton
Sorry, should have made that it two separate points.
1)I think now is the wrong time to be making changes to the republican leadership when all eyes are on the dems. Let them dig their own hole right now.
2) The remainder of my post was more long term in nature. I dont agree with the republicans getting all up in arms about being so hard lined on pro-life. I was trying to say I think it turns off a lot of potential voters who share the same fiscal/foreign policy ideals.
Sorry about that, im still a rookie to the sight :)
| 76 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:42:56am |
re: #68 SixDegrees
I would agree with this statement. The most disturbing thing he's done during this flap is to try and walk back his original statement. I'd rather have him say, "This is what I believe," and stick to it, rather than appearing to pander to the religious kook wing of the party.
Sharmuta put the link above to write to him, so write to him!
| 77 |
Clemente Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:43:01am |
| 78 |
Opinionated Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:43:02am |
re: #42 SixDegrees
The problem with Steele stepping down is that the Bible thumpers will start shrieking "Victory!"
According to Ken Blackwell:
"Chairman Steele, as the leader of America's Pro-Life conservative party, needs to re-read the Bible, the U.S. Constitution, and the 2008 GOP Platform. He then needs to get to work -- or get out of the way."
What is wrong with this statement- lets count.
| 79 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:43:22am |
re: #73 albusteve
dump him and offer Rush the job....lib brain matter will fall like rain
You know the response - Rush can't afford the pay cut.
| 80 |
father_of_10 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:43:23am |
I think Steele was an affirmative action response to our black president. Is he the best man for the job? Probably not... just the best black man for the job. Why are the Republicans allowing the PC crowd on the left dictate who they have as the RNC? Why not get the best and strongest conservative for the job?
My answer is that the Republicans have been pretty much been taken over by the spineless RINOs and it has become pretty much ineffective and irrelevant.
| 81 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:43:37am |
re: #6 MandyManners
I voted for booting him out based on his lack of reaction to that idiot on CNN taking pot shots at the GOP.
I happen to agree with you strongly on that one. A large part of the reason that the lies and calumnies of the Democrats take hold is because they are not refuted, and refuted in the strongest of terms. Steele should have made a real stink and stormed off that set. That would have accomplished two things:
- Put the Dems on notice that their bullshit will not be taken sitting down.
- Set a great example for other Republicans to start fighting back
er....um.....Three things:
- Shown some of the half asleep sheep out there that there is another party out there with another paira'dime(s).......
Um.....Four things...... :)............never mind
| 83 |
Last Mohican Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:19am |
re: #78 Opinionated
What is wrong with this statement- lets count.
Hmm. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and cross Ken Blackwell off of my short list.
| 84 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:20am |
I like Michael Steele, but he just doesn't appear to have been at all effective in this job.
This position just might not be a good fit for him.
He's got to be tougher than I've seen him be.
He's got to raise some money, which I'm not sure he's done.
He's got to pull the R's together, not say and do things that are divisive among different factions.
I don't like that I had to do this, but I voted to throw him out.
| 85 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:32am |
The more I think about it, the offended I'm starting to get because of these one issue voter bullies on the pro-life side. I understand their position because I agree in many respect that abortion is terrible, though I don't support a ban. However, their focus on the rights of the unborn and demanding obidience to this issue has now gotten this party into the position where many more people's lives are at stake with this unqualified hack in the Oval Office. What about my life? What about my rights? Our rights are being undermined while people in our party demand fealty to this one issue and it's keeping us out of power to secure the precious rights we do have. This party needs to focus on securing our existing rights at this time.
| 86 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:42am |
re: #57 opnion
That was a very not funny comediane, DL Hugley.
When he compared the Republican Convention to a Nazi Rally, Steele should have verbally slapped the snot out of him.
If Steele is not willing to fight back & then he should confine his activities to fund raising.
Ari Fliesher slapped Chris Matthews silly.
He should have challenged him to fist fight right then and there for comparing us to Nazis, and also call him on his ignorance of History and Nazi Germany while waling away at him!
| 87 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:54am |
re: #73 albusteve
dump him and offer Rush the job....lib brain matter will fall like rain
andre: #75 Oxnuts
Sorry, should have made that it two separate points.
1)I think now is the wrong time to be making changes to the republican leadership when all eyes are on the dems. Let them dig their own hole right now.
2) The remainder of my post was more long term in nature. I dont agree with the republicans getting all up in arms about being so hard lined on pro-life. I was trying to say I think it turns off a lot of potential voters who share the same fiscal/foreign policy ideals.
Sorry about that, im still a rookie to the sight :)
...and a hatchling shall lead them
| 88 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:44:59am |
re: #80 father_of_10
I think Steele was an affirmative action response to our black president. Is he the best man for the job? Probably not... just the best black man for the job. Why are the Republicans allowing the PC crowd on the left dictate who they have as the RNC? Why not get the best and strongest conservative for the job?
My answer is that the Republicans have been pretty much been taken over by the spineless RINOs and it has become pretty much ineffective and irrelevant.
As always, the question is, exactly who would we want instead?
Same issue with, say, Geithner right now.
The general principle is, you can't beat something with nothing.
| 89 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:18am |
re: #54 Killgore Trout
Does he have a rural accent? Republicans love accents.
I don't know. He's black. Also, he was the Ohio secretary of state, during the 2004 election.
| 90 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:20am |
re: #68 SixDegrees
I would agree with this statement. The most disturbing thing he's done during this flap is to try and walk back his original statement. I'd rather have him say, "This is what I believe," and stick to it, rather than appearing to pander to the religious kook wing of the party.
For me, the irritations are what he said about Rush and what he did NOT say to Hughley.
| 91 |
Opinionated Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:21am |
You guys do know that to win National elections you have to appeal to more then hard core Conservatives, don't you?
One would think- or hope- even pray- that having a President Obama would drive that lesson home.
| 92 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:26am |
re: #80 father_of_10
I think Steele was an affirmative action response to our black president. Is he the best man for the job? Probably not... just the best black man for the job. Why are the Republicans allowing the PC crowd on the left dictate who they have as the RNC? Why not get the best and strongest conservative for the job?
My answer is that the Republicans have been pretty much been taken over by the spineless RINOs and it has become pretty much ineffective and irrelevant.
Oh geeze.
| 93 |
turn Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:28am |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The majority of Hot Air readers want to ditch him. I think he's toast.
Can we really trust these Internet polls? Come to think about it, if I were a kos kid I'd be having a hard time trying to decide how to stack this poll. Do I vote to keep him in and hope he keeps embarrassing the GOP or do I vote the kick him out so we can tag the GOP as racist?
| 94 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:43am |
With the way the economy is getting trashed, what GOP players have the best business acumen? Seems to me we ought to go for the Dem's achilles heel. I say we just keep pointing to that and blaring it through our megaphones. After enough people don't get their unicorns we may be able to get their attention.
| 95 |
obscured by clouds Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:48am |
re: #38 Afrocity
I am into some hip hop and I am a Republican. Hell maybe I should go.
If you're a Republican who likes hip hop, that's fine. If you think 98% of the "hip hop community" is going to vote for any party other than the Democrats, you're crazy. I just think it's a counter-productive waste of time and energy for the Republicans to try to appeal to it. That's all I'm saying.
| 96 |
abolitionist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:49am |
re: #59 godfrey
{ploome}
Islam Should Prove It's a Religion of Peace by Tawfik Hamid
I count about 14 centuries of missed opportunities.
| 97 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:45:55am |
I was born in the mid-60's. I don't remember Republicans being known for having political street smarts. Reagan was Reagan. Rush was the first one to come along who had 'game.' Rove, too, behind the scenes. DeLay had killer instinct but was too aggressive, and Newt had the brains but got too cocky. Now we've got all these Prots who preen themselves on principle too much to know how to direct effective fire elsewhere. The Dems have no principles, no effective policies, but have loads of political thug smarts. That's why they're sitting in the White House and Congress and happily bankrupting our futures.
| 98 |
Irenike Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:46:02am |
The GOP has got to get past the abortion issue. It seriously detracts from more important concerns.
Republicans need to get back on their feet. The government is being run by a bunch of left-wing socialists. Until the Republicans can gain some traction and start winning, nothing is going to change. Abortion is just not the galvanizing issue it was thirty years ago. Let it go already and focus on national security and economics. Tearing Steele apart just because of his view of abortion is as stupid as the Dems cutting Lieberman loose because of his view on the Iraq war.
| 99 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:46:20am |
re: #86 Nevergiveup
He should have challenged him to fist fight right then and there for comparing us to Nazis, and also call him on his ignorance of History and Nazi Germany while waling away at him!
That's verbose, he should follow the Kzin protocol: you scream and you leap.
| 100 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:46:25am |
re: #81 LGoPs
I happen to agree with you strongly on that one. A large part of the reason that the lies and calumnies of the Democrats take hold is because they are not refuted, and refuted in the strongest of terms. Steele should have made a real stink and stormed off that set. That would have accomplished two things:
- Put the Dems on notice that their bullshit will not be taken sitting down.
- Set a great example for other Republicans to start fighting back
er....um.....Three things:
- Shown some of the half asleep sheep out there that there is another party out there with another paira'dime(s).......
Um.....Four things...... :)............never mind
I don't know about storming off the set but, he should've blasted him.
| 101 |
father_of_10 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:46:59am |
re: #88 itellu3times
As always, the question is, exactly who would we want instead?
Same issue with, say, Geithner right now.
The general principle is, you can't beat something with nothing.
Are you saying that Steele is the best we can come up with?
Or that Geithner is the best the Dems can come up with for his job?
| 102 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:47:04am |
Time for a new party of the center. Look at all the wasted energy around this, and how the country is alternatively governed by the extremes. Let the leftists and the rightists each have their little playhouses.
A plague on them both, and the parties they have infected.
We have real problems to fix, in the real world.
| 103 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:47:14am |
re: #82 ploome hineni
the rest of the title
Muslims can start with better Quranic scholarshipmore obfuscating, more contemporary, less grounded in orthodox traditional and historical
interpretation and (what these mthefkrs call) scholarship
"better Quranic scholarship" will only mean more terror. Islam is NOT reformable. Islam is a death cult inside and out.
| 104 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:47:24am |
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
| 105 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:47:54am |
re: #95 obscured by clouds
If you're a Republican who likes hip hop, that's fine. If you think 98% of the "hip hop community" is going to vote for any party other than the Democrats, you're crazy. I just think it's a counter-productive waste of time and energy for the Republicans to try to appeal to it. That's all I'm saying.
That is not what Michael Steele was saying to begin with. It was a trash ass liberal talking point
| 106 |
opnion Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:41am |
re: #74 MandyManners
It left me gasping with anger.
Yeah, Steele is a bright engaging guy, but he does not yet get it.
His position is to raise funds, elect Republicans & to a lesser extent represent the party.
His personal opnions should not be paraded around & when the Party is under attack (Being compared to Nazis), he needs to push back.
Oh & who does he think wants the Party to succeed, Limbaugh or DL Hugley?
| 107 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:43am |
re: #89 Ward Cleaver
Nice crucifix on his lapel. That counts for something.
| 108 |
kafir lover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:47am |
I think I like the idea of Steele as the face of the current Republican party more than the man himself - he doesn't seem to know what direction he want to go -
| 109 |
soxfan4life Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:53am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
Small government means small government, stay out of our personal lives as well as our wallets and you'll have a guaranteed winner every time.
| 110 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:53am |
While he has initially stumbled pretty badly while being interviewed by a moderately hostile press, he has yet to perform any of the actual operations as the RNC Chairman. Walking amongst his enemy before he has defined himself and built even a minimal infrastructure was very foolish. Kind of reminds you of someone else stumbling about in the first days in his new job...
Still, the Repubs better give him a chance to actually do the job for a few months, and he better get in his office and actually do that job. Otherwise, they are going to look even more disorganized and unprepared as the bumbling party in power.
| 111 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:55am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
AMEN!
| 112 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:48:57am |
re: #105 Afrocity
It was a trash ass liberal talking point
I don't think there's any other kind these days.
| 113 |
Throbert McGee Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:11am |
Social conservatives are up in arms about RNC chairman Michael Steele’s less than pure opposition to abortion
If he deserves to be thrown out, it is not because his position is "impure," but rather for his epic failure to finesse the question. It's not as though abortion has only recently become a hot-button topic; anyone expecting to hold the title of RNC chairman should've been better prepared to talk about it.
| 114 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:11am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
I agree.
If the gov't is not involved in our private lives, we are then free to live as coservatively or as liberally or as confused as we want to.
It's when government begins to insert itself into our lives that we start having to twist to the tune of whatever is the socially acceptabble pc idea du jour.
| 115 |
obscured by clouds Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:14am |
re: #58 SFGoth
Pink Floyd song?
It's a good song and an even better album. It's always been one of my Pink Floyd favorites.
| 116 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:51am |
re: #106 opnion
Yeah, Steele is a bright engaging guy, but he does not yet get it.
His position is to raise funds, elect Republicans & to a lesser extent represent the party.
His personal opnions should not be paraded around & when the Party is under attack (Being compared to Nazis), he needs to push back.
Oh & who does he think wants the Party to succeed, Limbaugh or DL Hugley?
Should the GOP chairman be going around to talk shows? Have they in the past?
| 117 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:51am |
re: #100 MandyManners
I don't know about storming off the set but, he should've blasted him.
You're right but he should have demanded an immediate retraction and apology or else....backed up by a threat to walk off. That would get someone's attention.
| 118 |
dhg4 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:53am |
Registration by party in Maryland 1998
Democrats - 1,479,530
Republicans - 778,245
Republican deficit - 701285
Registration by party in Maryland 2002
Democrats - 1,556,512
Republicans - 833,200
Republican deficit - 723312
Registration by party in Maryland 2006
Democrats - 1,733,432
Republicans - 909,735
Republican deficit - 823697
So from 1998 to 2002, when he headed the Maryland Republican party, the Republicans lost ground to the Democrats, but not as fast as after he left the post. I thought that the Republican had gained ground during his tenure.
Still, I say give him a chance. He needs to stop looking for places to talk and start some serious party bulding and recruiting though ...
| 119 |
opnion Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:49:53am |
re: #86 Nevergiveup
He should have challenged him to fist fight right then and there for comparing us to Nazis, and also call him on his ignorance of History and Nazi Germany while waling away at him!
Must se TV.
| 120 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:50:07am |
re: #115 obscured by clouds
It's a good song and an even better album. It's always been one of my Pink Floyd favorites.
Careful With that Ax, Eugene fits my mood better these days. :)
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:50:29am |
For those who give a shit: Here's the video of Cramer on John Stewart that has everybody talking this morning....
Stewart Can't Land Knockout Punch On Meek Cramer
(scroll down for complete video)
| 122 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:50:31am |
re: #101 father_of_10
Are you saying that Steele is the best we can come up with?
Or that Geithner is the best the Dems can come up with for his job?
Of course I didn't say that. I mean, seriously, even if they *were* the best, the question would be, after we kicked them out, who would we want instead?
Much, much better to have a replacement discussed, vetted, and ready, before you go kicking somebody out of a critical office.
| 123 |
SFGoth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:50:35am |
re: #59 godfrey
{ploome}
Islam Should Prove It's a Religion of Peace by Tawfik Hamid
Hahahahahahaahahahahahaha
| 126 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:51:10am |
re: #116 MandyManners
Should the GOP chairman be going around to talk shows? Have they in the past?
Yeah it's always been done. And Dean is also always on the Talk shows.
| 127 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:51:31am |
re: #114 reine.de.tout
I agree.
If the gov't is not involved in our private lives, we are then free to live as coservatively or as liberally or as confused as we want to.It's when government begins to insert itself into our lives that we start having to twist to the tune of whatever is the socially
acceptabbleacceptable pc idea du jour.
"acceptable", not "accept a bbabble" LOL
| 128 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:51:31am |
I voted to give his another chance. That being said, I've been disappointed with him in the last few weeks.
| 129 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:51:33am |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
Nice crucifix on his lapel. That counts for something.
That's got to be the highest resolution picture (2912 x 4368) I have ever seen. Good grief.
| 130 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:51:52am |
re: #115 obscured by clouds
It's a good song and an even better album. It's always been one of my Pink Floyd favorites.
time to post 'Comfortably Numb' again!......(not again)
| 131 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:52:01am |
On my list of the 100 Most Important Issues Facing American Right Now, abortion comes in...well, dang me, it isn't even on the list at all.
C'mon, people: It's not what your positions are on certain irrelevant issues cherry-picked by two cockamamie political parties, but rather which other issues you think are important in the first place.
| 132 |
Racer X Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:52:17am |
Help me out here - what exactly is the fuss about with Steele? He didn't respond decisively enough to a question on the abortion issue?
Are you kidding me?
> See Obama.
| 133 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:52:35am |
re: #102 Ojoe
so, in other words, you want to hand a second term to Obama? It would take way too long for another political party to gain traction, if it does at all. I just recall Ross Perot and what we got from that.
| 134 |
opnion Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:52:52am |
re: #116 MandyManners
Should the GOP chairman be going around to talk shows? Have they in the past?
I remember Party Chairs on TV only infrequently. Steele definitely should stay off the air for a while & get his message straight.
| 135 |
soxfan4life Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:52:55am |
re: #124 ploome hineni
if the Dems put up with the peronality disorder of Howard Dean as chair of the Dem party,
hopefully we can get someone to groom Steele
Hopefully we have much higher standards than the Dems. What I would like to see is Steele tell the Republicans in Congress to withdraw every earmark they have in the budget so O and the Dems can get beaten with that stick every day between now and Nov 2010.
| 136 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:53:04am |
re: #131 zombie
Abortion is an important issue IMHO but it should not be a political issue.
| 138 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:53:19am |
re: #131 zombie
It's a favorite liberal stick to prod women into voting for anything with a donkey by its name.
| 139 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:53:24am |
re: #133 jjmckay1216
so, in other words, you want to hand a second term to Obama? It would take way too long for another political party to gain traction, if it does at all. I just recall Ross Perot and what we got from that.
Charts. Lots and lots of charts.
/zzzzzzzzz...
| 140 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:53:29am |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
For those who give a shit: Here's the video of Cramer on John Stewart that has everybody talking this morning....
Stewart Can't Land Knockout Punch On Meek Cramer(scroll down for complete video)
Who the fuck cares? This is not news, this is not politics, this is entertainment.
| 141 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:02am |
re: #117 LGoPs
You're right but he should have demanded an immediate retraction and apology or else....backed up by a threat to walk off. That would get someone's attention.
The headlines/talking points in the MFM the next day would be about his hissy fit/utltimatum.
Oh, wait. We need to stop giving a shit about the MFM's reactions.
| 142 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:12am |
| 143 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:30am |
We all have great advice for Mr Steel, so here is the link to his email addy. How about YOU do something, like write to him with advice and support! Steele email
(Thanks Sharmuta!)
| 144 |
subsailor68 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:36am |
re: #86 Nevergiveup
He should have challenged him to fist fight right then and there for comparing us to Nazis, and also call him on his ignorance of History and Nazi Germany while waling away at him!
Hi Nevergiveup! Good point. Maybe we should send him this video:
| 145 |
soxfan4life Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:39am |
re: #142 Ojoe
I have no faith in either party anymore.
Maybe that answers your question.
Nor should you.
| 146 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:54:42am |
re: #140 Walter L. Newton
Who the fuck cares? This is not news, this is not politics, this is entertainment.
Your 100% correct of course, but let's be realistic here, in the TV age Politics is Entertainment, and we can't really ignore that.
| 147 |
nyc redneck Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:55:02am |
re: #84 reine.de.tout
I like Michael Steele, but he just doesn't appear to have been at all effective in this job.
This position just might not be a good fit for him.
He's got to be tougher than I've seen him be.
He's got to raise some money, which I'm not sure he's done.
He's got to pull the R's together, not say and do things that are divisive among different factions.I don't like that I had to do this, but I voted to throw him out.
i agree w/ you on all your points. i'm just not quite ready to pink slip him yet.
i'm hoping he is just having trouble getting his footing in the glare of the bright lights. i think we'll find out soon.
i'm pulling for him.
despite his actions so far.
| 149 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:55:29am |
re: #142 Ojoe
I hear ya. BUT, that being said, like another posted said earlier, Steele should stay the hell off TV and get his shit togetehr and start leading this party and DO IT NOW.
| 150 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:55:47am |
I vote to give him a chance, hopefully someone will show him the way. Especially regarding the Hughley comments, and his seeming acceptance of them. He should have responded, gleefully, with the facts concerning the Republican party and civil rights. Then further with the facts concerning Democrats and what they've done to black America for the last 50 years or so. Someone needs to speak publicly on this, and thoroughly, to the communities that need to hear it the most. Zo can talk on youtube all he wants but until a national figure tells it like it is, and, like I said, thoroughly, leaving nothing out, then most of the country will continue beliveing the Lie, that Republicans are the Racists and that Democrats are the party of Equality.
That said, if he decides to ride out comparisons between Nazis and Republicans one more time, I will change my opinion posthaste.
| 151 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:09am |
re: #126 Nevergiveup
Yeah it's always been done. And Dean is also always on the Talk shows.
I could be wrong but, I don't think that's a job for the chairman. His job is to raise money.
| 153 |
abaleh Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:25am |
re: #103 Piglet-U93
"better Quranic scholarship" will only mean more terror. Islam is NOT reformable. Islam is a death cult inside and out.
Islam may not be reformable in our lifetime, but there are certainly many Muslims who are not death cult advocates. I know a few Muslims who's main aim in life is not killing heathens, but making a living, giving their children a good education, and being good neighbors. Surprisingly enough, praying 5 times a day does not automatically make you a crazy Jihadist.
| 154 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:28am |
re: #144 subsailor68
Hi Nevergiveup! Good point. Maybe we should send him this video:
[Video]
That is exactly what he should he done! That is great!
| 155 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:40am |
New Tactics Yield Solid Victory for Israel in Gaza
Israel used a variety of tactics to outflank and defeat Hamas in its own territory. These included long-term planning, meticulous intelligence-gathering, deception and disinformation. Although the attack had been prepared for weeks, operational security and a well-planned deception campaign took Hamas by surprise when it finally happened, despite Israel’s repeated warnings that the rocket attacks would trigger a war.
| 156 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:51am |
re: #102 Ojoe
Time for a new party of the center. Look at all the wasted energy around this, and how the country is alternatively governed by the extremes. Let the leftists and the rightists each have their little playhouses.
A plague on them both, and the parties they have infected.
We have real problems to fix, in the real world.
And how do you purpose to fix anything with a third party. Just as in the two existing parties, no one gets a job in DC unless they can be of some use to special interests. It doesn't matter, Dems or Repubs, they are all of some use to big money.
So, your proposal would be to have a third pool of politicians that will suck up to the big money and do their bidding.
Sort of like more of the same old, huh.
| 157 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:56am |
From what I see here, it looks like Obama will get a second term.
| 158 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:56:57am |
re: #134 opnion
I remember Party Chairs on TV only infrequently. Steele definitely should stay off the air for a while & get his message straight.
Or, let others get out the message.
| 159 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:57:24am |
re: #138 Chicago Blonde
It's a favorite liberal stick to prod women into voting for anything with a donkey by its name.
And, unfortunately, it's effective.
| 160 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:57:27am |
Steele has the extra double glare of the media on him simply because he is the head of the opposition and is black. No matter what the man says or does the FMSM will portray it as deliberate and calculated, and EEEEEEVIL.
| 162 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:57:52am |
re: #146 Nevergiveup
Your 100% correct of course, but let's be realistic here, in the TV age Politics is Entertainment, and we can't really ignore that.
Er, I'm sorry, I can ignore... what were we talking about?
| 163 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:01am |
I suggest that Mr. Steele and Mr. Limbaugh go on a weekend retreat and have Rush explain to him what he said at CPAC and why it's important for our party. Maybe he would understand the importance of his new position and take control.
| 164 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:22am |
re: #140 Walter L. Newton
Who the fuck cares? This is not news, this is not politics, this is entertainment.
There ARE people who get their news from Comedy Central.
| 165 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:24am |
has been disappointing as a leader. i wanted to see someone on a plane to minnesota with 100 pitbull lawyers to fight the senate recount ten seconds after becoming party head. not a guy who wandered aimlessly form one embarrassing talk show interview to another.
there is room in the part for dfferences in opinion. but no room for those who can't keep their mouths shut in front of reporters.
| 166 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:35am |
re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans
Steele has the extra double glare of the media on him simply because he is the head of the opposition and is black. No matter what the man says or does the FMSM will portray it as deliberate and calculated, and EEEEEEVIL.
Especially if he is making stupid, worthless remarks.
| 167 |
abaleh Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:39am |
| 168 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:58:45am |
re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans
Steele has the extra double glare of the media on him simply because he is the head of the opposition and is black. No matter what the man says or does the FMSM will portray it as deliberate and calculated, and EEEEEEVIL.
yeah, they do that with all black politicians
| 169 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:59:10am |
re: #162 Walter L. Newton
Er, I'm sorry, I can ignore... what were we talking about?
Actually after rereading your post, I am not sure either? How about we go out for a drink? Yeah I know you don't drink anymore, so have a coke or something.
| 170 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:59:15am |
re: #163 jjmckay1216
I suggest that Mr. Steele and Mr. Limbaugh go on a weekend retreat and have Rush explain to him what he said at CPAC and why it's important for our party. Maybe he would understand the importance of his new position and take control.
Excellent idea!
| 171 |
tackle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:59:30am |
re: #56 Ringo the Gringo
Maybe it is time for a centrist party based on fiscal responsibility, low taxes, small government, strong national defense and states rights....all the things Republicans used to be about.
Agreed, but both the centrists and the SoCons need to learn to give a little and get along in the name of unity. Centrists shouldn't shun the religious right and the religious right needs to moderate their zeal and prioritize.
I'm actually more libertarian-leaning when it comes to many social issues. I'm personally pro-life, but people are going to do what they are going to do, and I'd vote for Guliani over Huck anyday. Ideally the government (meaning my taxes) wouldn't legislate and pay for abortions, but they'd be available and safe for those who need them.
| 172 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:59:51am |
re: #59 godfrey
From your link:
Many Muslims seem to believe that it is acceptable to teach hatred and violence in the name of their religion -- while at the same time expecting the world to respect Islam as a religion of peace, love and harmony.
Scholars in the most prestigious Islamic institutes and universities continue to teach things like Jews are "pigs and monkeys," that women and men must be stoned to death for adultery, or that Muslims must fight the world to spread their religion. Isn't, then, Mr. Wilders's criticism appropriate? Instead of blaming him, we must blame the leading Islamic scholars for having failed to produce an authoritative book on Islamic jurisprudence that is accepted in the Islamic world and unambiguously rejects these violent teachings.
I smell a big fatwa coming for Mr. Hamid.
| 173 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 9:59:55am |
re: #168 albusteve
yeah, they do that with all black politicians
No, they do it to Black Republicans, which is exactly what Steele is.
| 174 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:00:04am |
re: #50 SFGoth
Let's see the putative GOP platform for 2010: abortion, gays, guns, increased social spending on "family values"-related stuff, freedom to teach creationism, and GOP-district pork. Yeah, that'll get rid of Pelosi as speaker.
Exactly. These people have worked since the 1980s to take over the GOP party apparatus from the ground up. That's why I keep saying that my real hope is for a revolt in the democrat party that will allow the sane members over there to take the party back from the lunatic leftists. The Obama/Pelosi disaster may just provide that opportunity.
I just don't see the GOP as being able to get its stuff together if most of the "grassroots" are obsessed with abortion, abortion, and abortion. The American people just don't want their politicians to harp at them over morality.
Obama/Pelosi are authoritarians. Religio-cons are just pushing another flavor of authoritarianism. It ain't gonna sell, IMHO.
| 175 |
Old Engineer Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:00:05am |
As a former Republican office holder I have been aghast at the division within the GOP. The disarray has cost us the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, and look where we are going now because of it. We tend to eat our own when we should be eating the bad, bad guys. If our country goes with the wind, as other similar governments have, it will be as much the fault of hardheaded Republicans as our jackass competition. Just my say.
Old Engineer
| 177 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:00:57am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Some are getting "mucked up" over the use of government (that is, mine and yours) money to fund aberrations of behavior, and to fund indocrtrination into certain aberrations of behavior in schools also funded by my and your money. It has more to do with this than peoples' private lives, I think. Much more. If people want to engage in behavior that is questionable to Christians, Jews, Mormons, etc., I say go right the hell ahead to them. I just don't want to pay for it, or for indoctrination into it, be it abortions, gradeschool explorations of (and graphic explanations of) aberrant sexuality, or anything else.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with what the hell people are doing in their bedrooms.
| 178 |
Andopolis Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:01:13am |
As long as Republicans keep making the abortion issue their main qualifier for candidates they will continue to lose more and more elections.
They've been trying to overturn Row vs. Wade for 36 years, most of which have been under Republican presidents (Ford, Reagan 2 terms, Bush, other Bush 2 terms - over 20 years, compared to Carter and Clinton 2 terms - 12 years) and have gotten nowhere.
All it does is divide the party, disqualify otherwise perfectly good candidates, and completely alienate any Dems that may be leaning to the right.
Anti-abortion efforts would be much better spent helping prevent unwanted pregnancies through education and counciling than in trying to change the laws. Treat the problem, not the symptom.
Should I put on my flame-proof suit now?
| 179 |
reggie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:01:45am |
Several weeks ago I said the job was above him, but never expected such glaring proof so quickly. During the stimulus debate, he argued that money going to public works projects doesn't provide any lasting jobs. He was more interested in drawing a distinction between Dems, instead of finding a strong argument against the bill. To this day I hear talking heads declare Reps only voted against, and never offered anything of their own, when I know they did and Steele failed to publicize it. The Rep's new message on the topic is much more forceful now that he's on his way out.
| 180 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:01:55am |
re: #138 Chicago Blonde
It's a favorite liberal stick to prod women into voting for anything with a donkey by its name.
Like I said yesterday, if you could clone Hitler and make him pro-choice, you'd lock up a majority of the vote for him. And I'm being only halfway sarcastic.
| 182 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:01:59am |
re: #131 zombie
On my list of the 100 Most Important Issues Facing American Right Now, abortion comes in...well, dang me, it isn't even on the list at all.
C'mon, people: It's not what your positions are on certain irrelevant issues cherry-picked by two cockamamie political parties, but rather which other issues you think are important in the first place.
But that's just it- the pro-lifer's issue they think is most inmportant is the right to Life- that without it we don't have any other rights. But once I am alive I do have rights. Focusing on the right to Life, while noble imo, is having the adverse affect right now because my other Liberties are now in jeopardy.
| 183 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:21am |
re: #175 Old Engineer
As a former Republican office holder I have been aghast at the division within the GOP. The disarray has cost us the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, and look where we are going now because of it. We tend to eat our own when we should be eating the bad, bad guys. If our country goes with the wind, as other similar governments have, it will be as much the fault of hardheaded Republicans as our jackass competition. Just my say.
Old Engineer
AMEN!
Doesn't anyone see that this is what the liberal want us to do?
| 184 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:30am |
re: #143 Wishing
We all have great advice for Mr Steel, so here is the link to his email addy. How about YOU do something, like write to him with advice and support! Steele email
(Thanks Sharmuta!)
Done. Be interesting to see if I get a response.
| 185 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:45am |
re: #159 Russkilitlover
And, unfortunately, it's effective.
I've never understood voting based on that sole issue. I think Pelosi is giving us quite a stick to wield in 2010, with the way OUR money is being spent. We need someone who can use that to effectively get under people's skin. We need to hit their record of financial abuses like a pinata and point out every bit of pork we can.
| 186 |
abolitionist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:50am |
re: #86 Nevergiveup
He should have challenged him to fist fight right then and there for comparing us to Nazis, and also call him on his ignorance of History and Nazi Germany while waling away at him!
Buckley-Vidal debate points replay?
| 187 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:56am |
re: #181 Kenneth
Abortion cannot not be a political issue.
it's a states issue, exactly where the socons won't leave it...they are fools
| 188 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:02:57am |
If your highest aspiration is to window-dress an essentially socialist state with some libertarian hedonism, go right on wedging off the socons.
Socons are always upset that the world is becoming more secular/atheist, so they get defensive. That makes them holler for a litmus test and hold political hostages. To make them less defensive and demanding, why not throw them an innocuous bone now and then? If you don't, and try to wedge them off, you'll in effect be setting up shop under the statist DNC instead, which is equally, if not more, opposed to your libertarian goals.
The mistake of the wedge strategy is that it's too blunt an instrument. It's also passive and reactionary. Go out there and actively find an issue you can placate the socons with. Make it one that's more of your choosing than theirs if you like, and hash out any differences like grown-ups.
| 189 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:03:33am |
re: #184 Russkilitlover
Done. Be interesting to see if I get a response.
Others here on LGF have received personal notes from Mr Steele in response to their emails.
| 190 |
subsailor68 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:04:00am |
re: #186 abolitionist
Buckley-Vidal debate points replay?
LOL! Great minds think alike. See my post at 144. Glad to see there are two of us who remember that!
:-)
| 191 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:04:15am |
re: #184 Russkilitlover
Done. Be interesting to see if I get a response.
Well, I got an auto response at any rate:
Thank you for contacting the Republican National Committee. We certainly appreciated your email, and will include your thoughts in our report to the Chairman. Please do not hesitate to contact us in the future with any of your thoughts, opinions or observations.
Office of Constituent Services
Republican National Committee
info@gop.com
| 192 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:04:22am |
re: #185 Chicago Blonde
I've never understood voting based on that sole issue. I think Pelosi is giving us quite a stick to wield in 2010, with the way OUR money is being spent. We need someone who can use that to effectively get under people's skin. We need to hit their record of financial abuses like a pinata and point out every bit of pork we can.
It also pits woman against woman.
| 193 |
CharlieBravo Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:04:36am |
Ask 10 people to comment on anything and the reply will be worded ten different ways - although they may all have the same opinion. Looking for evil shadows behind every utterance isn't too productive.
| 194 |
cronus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:05:09am |
Steele ran for chairman on the contention that the party base needed to be expanded. I agreed with that and supported him. Consequently he thinks he needs to be the one taking all these media interviews as the "face" of the party. But alas, he sucks at it. He has no message discipline and allows himself to be pushed around in interviews. There was another recent party chairman who had similar media problems. Howard Dean. But the DNC folks realized this and severely limited his appearances. He was elected on the vaunted 50 state strategy and CLEARLY not on his personal appeal.
Steele has to come to the same realization immediately. If not he will seal his own fate.
| 195 |
lawhawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:05:22am |
I am agnostic on the question of whether to keep him or throw him out based on the following two questions:
Who exactly is there to replace him? Who would it take to placate the social conservatives while keeping the moderates satisfied?
In other words, who are the alternatives?
It is interesting, however, that some of Steele's problems are so similar to that of Obama - a failure to bring in new people in a timely fashion after the housecleaning, foot-in-mouth disorder, and tone-deaf approach that muddles the message to those still willing to listen.
It is also reminiscent of Howard Dean's DNC takeover - and his early teething problems. Dean turned things around too and helped sweep Obama to victory.
If push comes to shove, I say that Steele should go because he's showing himself to be not ready for prime time.
| 196 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:05:29am |
re: #178 Andopolis
As long as Republicans keep making the abortion issue their main qualifier for candidates they will continue to lose more and more elections.
They've been trying to overturn Row vs. Wade for 36 years, most of which have been under Republican presidents (Ford, Reagan 2 terms, Bush, other Bush 2 terms - over 20 years, compared to Carter and Clinton 2 terms - 12 years) and have gotten nowhere.
All it does is divide the party, disqualify otherwise perfectly good candidates, and completely alienate any Dems that may be leaning to the right.
Anti-abortion efforts would be much better spent helping prevent unwanted pregnancies through education and counciling than in trying to change the laws. Treat the problem, not the symptom.
Should I put on my flame-proof suit now?
I think we have to start making distinction between a "Moral" argument and a "Political" one. Morally I am against Abortion and I think over the last 20-30 years we are actually winning that argument. Repealing Roe v Wade is a Political argument and that one we are losing and getting caught in the mud with our wheels spinning. If people just refused to get abortions on moral grounds and for personal reasons, Roe v Wade becomes irrelevant.
| 197 |
wrenchwench Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:05:43am |
re: #188 godfrey
To make them less defensive and demanding, why not throw them an innocuous bone now and then?
Appeasement? Which "bones" would make them less defensive and demanding?
| 199 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:06:03am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
Limbaugh's constantly harping on the "fact" that conservatives/republicans trust the American people to make the right decisions but liberals/democrats think that people have to be told what to do by the government.
O rlly?
| 200 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:06:33am |
re: #180 LGoPs
I can't understand single-issue voting.
"No experience, screwy friends, and they'll wreck the economy...but hey! They're pro-choice!"
| 201 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:06:43am |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
For those who give a shit: Here's the video of Cramer on John Stewart that has everybody talking this morning....
Stewart Can't Land Knockout Punch On Meek Cramer(scroll down for complete video)
Wow, was Cramer uncharacteristically passive and subdued. He was like a turtle, all shell and no teeth. He must have dosed his Ritalin right before the interview.
Also looks like Cramer is going to be doing a lot more homework and study before getting on camera in the future. Hmmm, good strategy for Steele too.
| 202 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:06:44am |
re: #188 godfrey
I think it is many of the soc-cons that are dressing up the socialist window.
| 203 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:06:56am |
re: #172 Kenneth
I found this the most interesting part:
having failed to produce an authoritative book on Islamic jurisprudence that is accepted in the Islamic world and unambiguously rejects these violent teachings
Islam had its "Reformation" and has its Protestants already: the Shia. Sounds like Hamid is essentially calling for an Islamic Pope. Good luck with that, eh?
| 204 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:07:11am |
re: #166 Walter L. Newton
Especially if he is making stupid, worthless remarks.
So the SoCons destroy any chance of averting a Socialist State under Obama and the Dems because they are not getting THEIR governmental agenda forwarded.
| 205 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:07:19am |
re: #197 wrenchwench
Appeasement? Which "bones" would make them less defensive and demanding?
everyone wants their bone....the GOP will look just like the donks...they can have their bones at the state level
| 206 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:07:49am |
re: #178 Andopolis
As long as Republicans keep making the abortion issue their main qualifier for candidates they will continue to lose more and more elections.
They've been trying to overturn Row vs. Wade for 36 years, most of which have been under Republican presidents (Ford, Reagan 2 terms, Bush, other Bush 2 terms - over 20 years, compared to Carter and Clinton 2 terms - 12 years) and have gotten nowhere.
All it does is divide the party, disqualify otherwise perfectly good candidates, and completely alienate any Dems that may be leaning to the right.
Anti-abortion efforts would be much better spent helping prevent unwanted pregnancies through education and counciling than in trying to change the laws. Treat the problem, not the symptom.
Should I put on my flame-proof suit now?
Well, I agree with you.
And that brings up some of the anti-abortion groups. If Operation Rescue really wanted to live up to their name, they would offer the women counseling, medical care, and support, and arrange for the child to be adopted if the mother wanted.
Give these people an alternative to abortion, instead of just attacking them.
But also educate them.
| 207 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:05am |
re: #200 Chicago Blonde
I can't understand single-issue voting.
"No experience, screwy friends, and they'll wreck the economy...but hey! They're pro-choice!"
No doubt. Just like the Chicago woman I tried to talk into voting for McCain. She hated Obama but she looks at me and says "I could never vote for that woman Sarah Palin she is pro life"
| 208 |
gonecamping Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:25am |
I'll segue from your thought and say that Congress should get some economic books and learn how to run a business and an economy before they destroy
any more through ignorance and more 'stimulus'.
re: #163 jjmckay1216
I suggest that Mr. Steele and Mr. Limbaugh go on a weekend retreat and have Rush explain to him what he said at CPAC and why it's important for our party. Maybe he would understand the importance of his new position and take control.
| 209 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:27am |
re: #136 Ojoe
Abortion is an important issue IMHO but it should not be a political issue.
We'll have to agree to disagree, then.
Personally, I think the abortion issue is not only irrelevant, but it's actually even a subset of a larger issue (sexual freedom, and "What message do we send our kids?"), which is itself also irrelevant, considering the problems facing 21st century America.
My personal opinion is that abortion is mostly a stand-in which disguises the real topic of discussion, which is: Should society encourage woman and girls to be promiscuous? Leftists want to keep abortion legal specifically because they want sex to be without consequences. (This is also why they're so outraged that HIV hasn't been cured immediately by the medical community. HIV means that sex can have consequences, which is driving the Left crazy). THe ultimate goal, if you bother to read the underlying texts of leftist philosophy, is to break apart the nuclear family, to help usher in a Total Social Revolution.
The far-right, on the other hand, want to suppress the free expression of extra-marital sexuality, according to their religious/moral principles. Banning abortion is one to to enforce that -- by ensuring that each individual sex act can change your life forever (i.e. give you a child).
I have mixed feelings about the underlying moral question (total sexual freedom, total sexual repression -- or something in between?), hence I have mixed feelings about the political manifestation of that issue (abortion). Personally, I'm leaning toward "something in between" as our society's stance on sexual freedom (e.g. encourage and reward monogamy, but allow promiscuity if someone so chooses), but it seems there is no middle ground allowed on the abortion issue by ideologues on either side.
Meanwhile, capitalism is collapsing (and being intentionally pushed toward collapse by our own president), Islamic Extremists are trying to establish a Global Caliphate, socialists and communists are solidifying their grip on power . . . and here we are, arguing about condoms.
| 210 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:35am |
re: #197 wrenchwench
That's the question. They'll always have demands, but demands can be channeled and mitigated.
| 211 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:39am |
re: #206 Kosh's Shadow
Well, I agree with you.
And that brings up some of the anti-abortion groups. If Operation Rescue really wanted to live up to their name, they would offer the women counseling, medical care, and support, and arrange for the child to be adopted if the mother wanted.
Give these people an alternative to abortion, instead of just attacking them.
But also educate them.
There is a group in Israel that does that. I forget it's name.
| 212 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:45am |
re: #192 Afrocity
It also pits woman against woman.
Yes it does, doesn't it? That's another thing I've never grasped. We need to support each other and not attack each other, especially over stuff that doesn't personally affect me if you do it.
| 213 |
subsailor68 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:49am |
OT
I love Britain, having visited six times over the years. But I'm rethinking the idea of buying a home over there:
Squatters move in to £3million home and tell owners: 'We'll call the law if you try to evict us'
| 214 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:08:50am |
re: #206 Kosh's Shadow
Well, I agree with you.
And that brings up some of the anti-abortion groups. If Operation Rescue really wanted to live up to their name, they would offer the women counseling, medical care, and support, and arrange for the child to be adopted if the mother wanted.
Give these people an alternative to abortion, instead of just attacking them.
But also educate them.
Don't they do all that, too? I'm asking honestly, I have no idea.
| 215 |
joetopshot Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:09:05am |
I think there should have been a 3rd choice: "The question of abortion shouldn't factor into who is running the RNC".
| 216 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:09:21am |
It wasn't fiscal conservatives who started spending money like drunken sailors thus losing us Congress.
| 217 |
reggie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:09:27am |
re: #153 abaleh
Islam may not be reformable in our lifetime, but there are certainly many Muslims who are not death cult advocates. I know a few Muslims who's main aim in life is not killing heathens, but making a living, giving their children a good education, and being good neighbors. Surprisingly enough, praying 5 times a day does not automatically make you a crazy Jihadist.
With all due respect, this perspective speaks to differences among today's generation of Muslims in order to make assurances about future generations. There is a disconnect, and it is Islam's growth rates (not to mention how this growth rate is enabled by the West's own growing tolerance rate, perhaps by the same ilk that can't bother to look forward before predicting the future).
Perhaps if there were in today's generation something more than the occasional individual voice of dissent to galvinze a movement other than Islamists.... but there isn't. So you're conclusion is naive and hopeful and altogether useless for anything other than understanding how people like you think.
| 218 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:09:53am |
re: #178 Andopolis
alienate the pro lifers and the republicans will suddenly realize how very utterly alone they are.
| 219 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:10:09am |
re: #207 Afrocity
No doubt. Just like the Chicago woman I tried to talk into voting for McCain. She hated Obama but she looks at me and says "I could never vote for that woman Sarah Palin she is pro life"
How long did you smack your head against the wall? *sigh*
| 220 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:11:35am |
Well, I agree with you.
And that brings up some of the anti-abortion groups. If Operation Rescue really wanted to live up to their name, they would offer the women counseling, medical care, and support, and arrange for the child to be adopted if the mother wanted.
Give these people an alternative to abortion, instead of just attacking them.
But also educate them.
Don't know much about Operation Rescue, but many (most?) pro-life groups do offer those services.
| 221 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:11:57am |
re: #218 varmint
alienate the pro lifers and the republicans will suddenly realize how very utterly alone they are.
and so will the pro lifers. Who will they vote for? The DEMS? I am sick of abortion being a deal breaker issue.
| 222 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:12:04am |
re: #218 varmint
alienate the pro lifers and the republicans will suddenly realize how very utterly alone they are.
Keep on putting the demands of the SoCons onto the top of the list and look for decades of GOP political impotence and near permanent minority status.
| 223 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:12:20am |
smaller, less intrusive govt...
a robust market economy...
highest level of security...
that's all there is and anything else is a distraction from winning national elections...pretty simple....there are not enough bones to go around
| 224 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:12:34am |
re: #219 Chicago Blonde
How long did you smack your head against the wall? *sigh*
at first she was my friend, now she won't talk to me anymore.
| 225 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:12:35am |
| 226 |
Nutmeg Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:12:45am |
I'd throw him out but not for the abortion comment. I just don't think he can do what needs to be done.
| 228 |
avanti Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:06am |
| 229 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:08am |
Speaking of Newt, He is becoming a catholic on Easter Sunday.
| 230 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:23am |
re: #222 FurryOldGuyJeans
Keep on putting the demands of the SoCons onto the top of the list and look for decades of GOP political impotence and near permanent minority status.
Agreed!
| 231 |
Kragar Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:25am |
re: #216 Sharmuta
It wasn't fiscal conservatives who started spending money like drunken sailors thus losing us Congress.
Just thought that this bears repeating
| 232 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:43am |
| 234 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:49am |
re: #218 varmint
alienate the pro lifers and the republicans will suddenly realize how very utterly alone they are.
I disagree and it's the great LIE of the pro-lifers. Those who think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances are the minority in this country. The GOP alienates the majority of Americans and demonizes them just to pander to a vocal minority.
| 235 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:54am |
re: #221 Afrocity
and so will the pro lifers. Who will they vote for? The DEMS? I am sick of abortion being a deal breaker issue.
We had the Fiscal Conservatives show their displeasure by and large when a large chunk sat out the election, and so we get a blatant and overt SOCIALIST now in charge. Yeah, that worked out well, teaching the GOP a lesson.
| 236 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:13:54am |
We don't keep someone in to satisfy MSM and Democrats, but if Steele is removed soon, the headlines will be:
"Republicans fire Afirican-American"
| 237 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:02am |
re: #218 varmint
alienate the pro lifers and the republicans will suddenly realize how very utterly alone they are.
And the pro-lifers will be even more alone. Yet they will continue with this death match.
| 238 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:06am |
re: #207 Afrocity
No doubt. Just like the Chicago woman I tried to talk into voting for McCain. She hated Obama but she looks at me and says "I could never vote for that woman Sarah Palin she is pro life"
So much for liberal open mindedness. What makes me sick is that liberals are the most lock-step, robotic, intolerant and closeminded people I've ever met. And yet they gain incalculable advantage from the stereotype of being tolerant.
I wish I had the answer to how to change that stereotype. That would be half the battle won.
| 239 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:13am |
re: #211 Nevergiveup
There is a group in Israel that does that. I forget it's name.
I remember reading about that group as well, but I also forgot the name.
I think it is a good idea anywhere.
| 240 |
ModernDayPrayer Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:16am |
I'm against Steele simply because a spokesman for any organization should be able relate idea... Steele can't do that. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and I don't trust him.
| 241 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:17am |
re: #226 Nutmeg
I'd throw him out but not for the abortion comment. I just don't think he can do what needs to be done.
The burden should not be on Michael Steele alone. Even nutmeg needs other ingredients to be relevant.
| 242 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:18am |
re: #203 godfrey
The Shia are not the product of an Islamic reformation. The Shia sect arose following a succession struggle shortly after Mohammad's death. The theological differences between Shia & Sunni Islam developed later. The closest thing to a reformation was the Wahhabi movement which sought to purge Islam of corruption & return to it's pure roots.
The writer does have a point: if Islam can reform to the extent that they unequivocally renounce violence, then it can aspire to be a "religion of peace". But to do that requires an even bigger hurdle: to renounce the doctrine of Koranic infallibility & literalism. For the past 14 centuries, that has been the Catch-22.
| 243 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:32am |
| 244 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:14:40am |
re: #225 Wishing
Efrat.
Last year alone, Efrat saved the lives of 3,027 Jewish children in Israel
[Link: www.friendsofefrat.org...]
| 245 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:15:00am |
re: #214 Taqiyyotomist
Don't they do all that, too? I'm asking honestly, I have no idea.
I haven't heard of it, but then, thinking about it, the MSM wouldn't want to show a good side of Operation Rescue.
| 246 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:15:00am |
re: #222 FurryOldGuyJeans
Keep on putting the demands of the SoCons onto the top of the list and look for decades of GOP political impotence and near permanent minority status.
That's why I think that any compromises with them should take place off the main table.
My bet is that I'll have more net liberty if I compromise with a Socon than with a hard-Left statist like Obama.
| 247 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:15:19am |
re: #199 funky chicken
Limbaugh's constantly harping on the "fact" that conservatives/republicans trust the American people to make the right decisions but liberals/democrats think that people have to be told what to do by the government.
O rlly?
I believe he is referring to the elements in the GOP who claim to be social conservatives, but in reality are social fundamentalist in nature. Therefore, his comment and Limbaugh's comments are actually in sync. An actual social conservative would want minimal government involvement in social matters, and social movements out of government.
| 248 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:15:34am |
re: #235 FurryOldGuyJeans
We had the Fiscal Conservatives show their displeasure by and large when a large chunk sat out the election, and so we get a blatant and overt SOCIALIST now in charge. Yeah, that worked out well, teaching the GOP a lesson.
I hear Mandy revving up..........
| 249 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:15:45am |
re: #235 FurryOldGuyJeans
We had the Fiscal Conservatives show their displeasure by and large when a large chunk sat out the election, and so we get a blatant and overt SOCIALIST now in charge. Yeah, that worked out well, teaching the GOP a lesson.
I am sure they will feel that way on April 15th.
| 250 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:06am |
re: #236 Dave the.....
We don't keep someone in to satisfy MSM and Democrats, but if Steele is removed soon, the headlines will be:
"Republicans fire Afirican-American"
So, are we worried about substance or just image? I don't care, the man is not ready for this position, get someone in their that is, I don't care what color, or gender, or what ever.
| 251 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:22am |
| 252 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:31am |
re: #238 LGoPs
So much for liberal open mindedness. What makes me sick is that liberals are the most lock-step, robotic, intolerant and closeminded people I've ever met. And yet they gain incalculable advantage from the stereotype of being tolerant.
I wish I had the answer to how to change that stereotype. That would be half the battle won.
Yeah, right? Anybody know how they got that stereotype? All the real libs I've known did their best to make me miserable when they learned I wasn't like them.
| 253 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:41am |
re: #250 Walter L. Newton
So, are we worried about substance or just image? I don't care, the man is not ready for this position, get someone in their that is, I don't care what color, or gender, or what ever.
Palin would do a great job...are you ready for her?
| 254 |
FrogMarch Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:57am |
The proggies are loving the fact that the GOP has a fracture between the "social/religious cons" and the "Please, can religion be a private matter? conservatives"
| 255 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:16:58am |
Gawd, there is this liberal on one blog that I hate. Man if i could see this guy in person I would (argghh)
| 256 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:19am |
re: #209 zombie
The far-right, on the other hand, want to suppress the free expression of extra-marital sexuality, according to their religious/moral principles. Banning abortion is one to to enforce that -- by ensuring that each individual sex act can change your life forever (i.e. give you a child).
I updinged your comment, despite that paragraph. I agree with the rest. Maybe I'm not far enough to the right, maybe I don't know enough people far enough to the right, but I don't think that the idea of banning abortion is a means to an end. I don't believe for a minute that people want to ban abortion in order to curb sexual behavior. That's pretty conspiratorial. Again, I could be wrong, maybe I'm just not in the right hardcore bible-beating areas. I think it has more to do with life and death of humans, and whether fulfilling Ms. Sanger's dreams is a good thing for America. Throwing babies into the firey maw of Quetzacoatl or Baal by the millions, if there is a God, and if that God is the one which is discussed in the Bible, cannot possibly be a good thing for a civilization which relies on the providence of a just and loving God. I could be wrong. Maybe it is just a buncha fuddyduddies who just don't like the idea of people f***ing for fun.
Somehow I doubt it.
| 257 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:26am |
re: #242 Kenneth
The Shia are not the product of an Islamic reformation. The Shia sect arose following a succession struggle shortly after Mohammad's death. The theological differences between Shia & Sunni Islam developed later. The closest thing to a reformation was the Wahhabi movement which sought to purge Islam of corruption & return to it's pure roots.
The writer does have a point: if Islam can reform to the extent that they unequivocally renounce violence, then it can aspire to be a "religion of peace". But to do that requires an even bigger hurdle: to renounce the doctrine of Koranic infallibility & literalism. For the past 14 centuries, that has been the Catch-22.
That is one problem. The other is all the Muslims who say that anyone who says Islam isn't peaceful should be killed.
| 258 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:36am |
re: #251 krisstingle
Don't have one.
Ok, than can you give a little background info? Where did you hear this, you know, something that would possibly help us verify the statement.
| 259 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:41am |
Horse, that is my take. Contrary to headlines, most social conservatives don't want new laws. Maybe I'm not that close to them, but outside of some pro-life issues, very rarely do I hear of a social conservative proposing legislation. It's more of a "leave us alone".
| 260 |
SteveC Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:41am |
re: #196 Nevergiveup
I think we have to start making distinction between a "Moral" argument and a "Political" one. Morally I am against Abortion and I think over the last 20-30 years we are actually winning that argument. Repealing Roe v Wade is a Political argument and that one we are losing and getting caught in the mud with our wheels spinning. If people just refused to get abortions on moral grounds and for personal reasons, Roe v Wade becomes irrelevant.
I think we're actually moving past that argument. Doctors are now doing heart surgery before the infant is even born!
In Utero Heart Surgery
Kinda takes the "Unborn children have no rights" argument off the table.
| 261 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:46am |
re: #104 Russkilitlover
Personally, I think the GOP needs to re-think the entire Social Conservative position. It's an oxymoron, for one thing. Being conservative means government out of private life. Being "social" conservative or liberal means you want a good degree of governmental involvement in private life.
Just be conservative, GOP - in all that stands for. Don't keep getting mucked up in the legislation of behavior.
I agree with keeping government out of our lives, but I don't define social conservatism as you seem to.
I include things like keeping government out of home schooling (except to require some level of competency in the student along the way), keeping government out of our churches/synagogues/mosques even to the extent of eliminating the tax exempt status and attendant restrictions on speech, and keeping religion out of science class and the public schools.
I think the abortion issue is a bit less clear as it has parallels to restrictions on murder, but I don't mean to raise this issue for debate, just that it's less clear to me whether or not it should be part of a Republican platform.
| 262 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:17:56am |
re: #38 Afrocity
I am into some hip hop and I am a Republican. Hell maybe I should go.
Bring the noise, that's what I say:
"Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you oughta listen to - what he can say to you - whatcha gonna do follow for now....power to the people say - makin' miracles - D pump the lyrical black is back all in we gonna win check it out - here we go again" ;-)
Heh - great piece of music, shame about the idiocy/mindset.
| 263 |
Ringo the Gringo Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:03am |
You ever feel like you're stuck between a bunch of arugula eating socialists on the one side and a bunch of squirrel eating young-Earthers on the other?
| 264 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:16am |
re: #246 godfrey
That's why I think that any compromises with them should take place off the main table.
My bet is that I'll have more net liberty if I compromise with a Socon than with a hard-Left statist like Obama.
The problem, as I see it, is the SoCons are as intractable for compromise as are the Dems. Both will not budge one iota, and yet one group gets soundly repudiated by election results.
| 265 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:21am |
re: #253 Wishing
Palin would do a great job...are you ready for her?
No. She is not ready for the job, no more than Steele.
| 266 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:28am |
Mr Steele and likely many others should read Senator Goldwater's Conscience of a Conservative
| 267 |
Desert Dog Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:29am |
re: #229 krisstingle
Speaking of Newt, He is becoming a catholic on Easter Sunday.
I'm a Catholic on Christmas and Easter...the rest of the year....who knows?
| 268 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:30am |
re: #242 Kenneth
No, the Sunni/Shia split over succession effectively made Islamic Protestants. Authority was permanently forked and dispersed. This Hamid fellow longs for a voice that engages all positions and then speaks on the basis of that legitimacy. That's analogous to the catholic and papal position.
| 269 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:18:39am |
re: #252 Chicago Blonde
Yeah, right? Anybody know how they got that stereotype? All the real libs I've known did their best to make me miserable when they learned I wasn't like them.
The irony is that they're the ones that act like little nazis. And then they have the nerve to call us that........
| 270 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:19:05am |
re: #262 Jimmah
Bring the noise, that's what I say:
"Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you oughta listen to - what he can say to you - whatcha gonna do follow for now....power to the people say - makin' miracles - D pump the lyrical black is back all in we gonna win check it out - here we go again" ;-)
Heh - great piece of music, shame about the idiocy/mindset.
I am just saying that I get the sinking feeling I will not vote in 2012. Or maybe ever again.
| 271 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:19:16am |
re: #22 Ceemack
Abortion positions aside, he's made a complete fool of himself since taking over. First the business with Rush, then his misstep on abortion--even you're not in favor of a Constitutional amendment banning abortion (and I'm not), the de jure leader of the Republican party should be able talk about abortion without throwing half the party under the bus.
He's simply not up to the job.
I agree he hasn't shown that he is yet, but come on! He's only been on the job a month or 2. Give him a chance to find his voice. Maybe I (and we) will regret it if we do, but I can't think of a better prominent Republican for the job and his upside is huge if he can learn to grow a spine.
| 272 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:19:17am |
| 273 |
tackle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:19:24am |
re: #209 zombie
Meanwhile, capitalism is collapsing (and being intentionally pushed toward collapse by our own president), Islamic Extremists are trying to establish a Global Caliphate, socialists and communists are solidifying their grip on power . . . and here we are, arguing about condoms.
I think it's important that compromise applies to both extremes of conservatives. If SoCons are going hold their nose and put abortion on the back burner, should strict fiscal conservatives deny SoCons from access to the party because of their views on gay marriage or creation? In other words if we're going to drop the abortion litmus test, should we drop the litmus test on other social issues?
| 274 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:19:28am |
re: #229 krisstingle
Speaking of Newt, He is becoming a catholic on Easter Sunday.
Well, it worked for Tony Blair.
| 275 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:20:04am |
re: #259 Dave the.....
*sigh* My friend- what do you think the intelligent design movement is about? They most certainly are pushing legislation.
| 276 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:20:41am |
re: #213 subsailor68
OT
I love Britain, having visited six times over the years. But I'm rethinking the idea of buying a home over there:
Squatters move in to £3million home and tell owners: 'We'll call the law if you try to evict us'
Somebody should fix that photo caption:
A gang of 40 squatters have taken over listed
MortimerCrack House in Bristol
| 277 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:20:41am |
re: #249 Afrocity
I am sure they will feel that way on April 15th.
I know a few that didn't even wait for April 15th, but they felt it was necessary for Obama to win so the GOP could be "resurrected" with a Reaganesque "Saviour" just like 1980.
| 278 |
abaleh Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:05am |
re: #217 reggie
With all due respect, this perspective speaks to differences among today's generation of Muslims in order to make assurances about future generations. There is a disconnect, and it is Islam's growth rates (not to mention how this growth rate is enabled by the West's own growing tolerance rate, perhaps by the same ilk that can't bother to look forward before predicting the future).
Perhaps if there were in today's generation something more than the occasional individual voice of dissent to galvinze a movement other than Islamists.... but there isn't. So you're conclusion is naive and hopeful and altogether useless for anything other than understanding how people like you think.
I was replying to a post about Islam being a death cult inside and out, and from personal experience with Muslims, I know that some Muslims are fanatic death cult followers, while some others are definitely not.
Who are "people like me"? people who don't see everything as black and white?
| 279 |
subsailor68 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:06am |
Just a quick note on a happy event:
Barbara Bush Released From Hospital After Heart Surgery
Personally, I want to wish her, and President George H.W. Bush, all the best.
IMHO, they're both really good people.
| 280 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:08am |
re: #208 gonecamping
well, Obama IS learning on the job, no? Probably not. Maybe they ought to get some real economic EXPERTS in there, instead of political democrat HACKS. Then, and only THEN, will we right this ship. That, and have the Repubs on the Hill grow a pair and never put an earmark into a bill ever again and show the ppl the dems as they REALLY are.
| 281 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:10am |
re: #270 Afrocity
I am just saying that I get the sinking feeling I will not vote in 2012. Or maybe ever again.
You will vote, Comrade, for the 0ne, every four years for the rest of your life.
Your community organizers will make sure of it.
/
| 282 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:17am |
re: #250 Walter L. Newton
So, are we worried about substance or just image? I don't care, the man is not ready for this position, get someone in their that is, I don't care what color, or gender, or what ever.
Did you have anyone in mind? I think we could have an issue with almost anyone in the GOP at this point, because the GOP has gone that far off message during the past 10 years. I've heard Steele articulate conservative positions over the years and I was alway impressed. I say give him a bit more room before throwing him under the bus.
And send communications to the GOP. Like Sharmuta said, they need to hear from us.
| 283 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:22am |
re: #260 SteveC
I think we're actually moving past that argument. Doctors are now doing heart surgery before the infant is even born!
In Utero Heart SurgeryKinda takes the "Unborn children have no rights" argument off the table.
Only morally, as the many Laws now stand, they don't. No matter what you or I think.
| 284 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:21:58am |
re: #272 Wishing
How so?
Right, yet on ABC they are kicking the sh!t out of her now because Alaska is taking some earmarks. They wont say that she has actually lowerd earmarks. I and like one conservative are other there am over there battling fucking liberals and I come here and we are battling each other. WTF? Help fight the damn enemy. We have enough of them fighting us, we don't need to do it too.
| 285 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:22:06am |
I have said this before and some people disagreed with me very strongly, however I stand by what I have said. We need term limits for our Representatives and Senators. Too many of them have become career politicians whose primary focus is on getting reelected instead of being on doing what is right for the country. We need people who will lead from a core values belief system, not from a "what will get me reelected" system. Yes, the American people have the option of voting these people out, nut they don't. Instead the voters point at everyone else's guy and says you are the problem, while their own guy just keeps getting elected, like Dodd in my state of CT. Only by ensuring that there is new blood and new ideas will we see any real change in Washington politics.
| 286 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:22:26am |
re: #175 Old Engineer
As a former Republican office holder I have been aghast at the division within the GOP. The disarray has cost us the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, and look where we are going now because of it. We tend to eat our own when we should be eating the bad, bad guys. If our country goes with the wind, as other similar governments have, it will be as much the fault of hardheaded Republicans as our jackass competition. Just my say.
Old Engineer
And why do you think it is that we eat our own? Where do the most damaging fault lines within the party lie? What is about our party that prevents them from attracting a broader audience without sacrificing conservative ideals?
I have my own opinion, but I would like to hear yours.
| 288 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:08am |
re: #272 Wishing
How so?
Search my name and "palin" on LGF. I've gone over this before, I don't like her as a leader in the GOP, in any way, I'm not going to retype the whole thing.
| 289 |
abaleh Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:10am |
| 290 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:23am |
re: #259 Dave the.....
P.S- I hope my replies to you as of late haven't made you think less of me, or that I think any less of you, {Dave}. I still think you're a great guy.
| 291 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:23am |
re: #252 Chicago Blonde
Yeah, right? Anybody know how they got that stereotype? All the real libs I've known did their best to make me miserable when they learned I wasn't like them.
I think it all boils down to a masterful use of the language. I think it is the Stalinists that perfected that. Control the language and you control the debate. And I think waht used to be true liberals were infected and taken over by today's present group of Stalinist wannabe's. Started in the '60's.
The irony is that many of us are, in fact, classical liberals. I know that I am. As vile as I think that the other side is, I would never dream of wanting to shut them down. I truly think that having opposing viewpoints makes for a healthy society. Unfortunate that the Liberals don't feel the same way.
| 292 |
lobo91 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:23am |
re: #242 Kenneth
The writer does have a point: if Islam can reform to the extent that they unequivocally renounce violence, then it can aspire to be a "religion of peace". But to do that requires an even bigger hurdle: to renounce the doctrine of Koranic infallibility & literalism. For the past 14 centuries, that has been the Catch-22.
Even if they were able to produce such a doctrine, all it would do is set up a civil war within Islam itself. The Wahabis and other fundamentalists would declare them to be takfir (no longer true Muslims), and attack them on that basis.
I honestly don't think there's a workable solution, given the way the Koran is written and its circular logic (everything in the Koran is the literal word of Allah, because the Koran says so).
| 293 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:32am |
re: #281 Kosh's Shadow
You will vote, Comrade, for the 0ne, every four years for the rest of your life.
Your community organizers will make sure of it.
/
I would die before I do that. I took a lot of shit from blacks and libs in Chicago for supporting McCain.
| 294 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:43am |
re: #212 Chicago Blonde
Seems lefty women will NEVER support any woman on the right, period. We see that with their lack of a voice against Islam.
| 295 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:44am |
| 296 |
clgood Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:50am |
I used to really like him, but he's been demonstrating lately that he's not ready for prime time. This is just another nail in the coffin.
If Steele just quiets down and gets to raising money it might be OK. But he muffed the whole Rush thing badly.
And this, BTW, is why I'm pro-life.
Anybody trying to argue that human life doesn't start at conception will have to ignore or rewrite every modern embryology textbook.
| 297 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:23:53am |
| 299 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:24:05am |
re: #270 Afrocity
I am just saying that I get the sinking feeling I will not vote in 2012. Or maybe ever again.
I suppose things are looking pretty bleak for GOP supporters right now. I'm not a republican or even an American but I would think that the thing to do is to keep the party in a reasonable state so that unhappy Dems and waverers could conceivably vote on their side next election. At the moment that isn't looking too likely though.
| 300 |
SteveC Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:24:09am |
re: #281 Kosh's Shadow
You will vote, Comrade, for the 0ne, every four years for the rest of your life.
Your community organizers will make sure of it.
/
And well past your natural life, you will still support Lord High Commander Obama!
| 302 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:24:38am |
re: #288 Walter L. Newton
Search my name and "palin" on LGF. I've gone over this before, I don't like her as a leader in the GOP, in any way, I'm not going to retype the whole thing.
Because you don't *like* her doesn't mean that she cant be a great voice for conservatives, Walter.
| 303 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:01am |
re: #268 godfrey
I disagree on the Catholic-Protestant comparison. If anything, the Shia are more like the Greek Orthodox to the Sunni's Roman Catholic. But then if we start dragging in theological topics, the analogy runs out of steam.
I did not read anything in Hamid's essay calling for an Islamic Pope. There have always been Islamic scholars who rule on theological issues (that's what a fatwas is). Hamid is calling for "leading Islamic scholars" to modernize & re-interpret Islam getting rid of all the violent decrees. (Good luck with that.)
The problem is there are several different schools of Islamic jurisprudence or theology. They don't agree on many things & are very unlikely to agree on this project.
| 304 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:06am |
re: #285 Ford_Prefect
I have said this before and some people disagreed with me very strongly, however I stand by what I have said. We need term limits for our Representatives and Senators. Too many of them have become career politicians whose primary focus is on getting reelected instead of being on doing what is right for the country. We need people who will lead from a core values belief system, not from a "what will get me reelected" system. Yes, the American people have the option of voting these people out, nut they don't. Instead the voters point at everyone else's guy and says you are the problem, while their own guy just keeps getting elected, like Dodd in my state of CT. Only by ensuring that there is new blood and new ideas will we see any real change in Washington politics.
Good luck getting that into the Constitution, cause that's the only way it's gonna happen.
| 305 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:09am |
re: #234 Sharmuta
I disagree and it's the great LIE of the pro-lifers. Those who think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances are the minority in this country. The GOP alienates the majority of Americans and demonizes them just to pander to a vocal minority.
You are right a majority think it is ok for women to murder their unborn child.
| 307 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:11am |
re: #294 jjmckay1216
Seems lefty women will NEVER support any woman on the right, period. We see that with their lack of a voice against Islam.
And they don't support women on the left who are exploited by men on the left. (eg Clinton, Jennifer Flowers)
| 308 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:19am |
re: #209 zombie
We'll have to agree to disagree, then.
Personally, I think the abortion issue is not only irrelevant, but it's actually even a subset of a larger issue (sexual freedom, and "What message do we send our kids?"), which is itself also irrelevant, considering the problems facing 21st century America.
My personal opinion is that abortion is mostly a stand-in which disguises the real topic of discussion, which is: Should society encourage woman and girls to be promiscuous? Leftists want to keep abortion legal specifically because they want sex to be without consequences. (This is also why they're so outraged that HIV hasn't been cured immediately by the medical community. HIV means that sex can have consequences, which is driving the Left crazy). THe ultimate goal, if you bother to read the underlying texts of leftist philosophy, is to break apart the nuclear family, to help usher in a Total Social Revolution.
The far-right, on the other hand, want to suppress the free expression of extra-marital sexuality, according to their religious/moral principles. Banning abortion is one to to enforce that -- by ensuring that each individual sex act can change your life forever (i.e. give you a child).
I have mixed feelings about the underlying moral question (total sexual freedom, total sexual repression -- or something in between?), hence I have mixed feelings about the political manifestation of that issue (abortion). Personally, I'm leaning toward "something in between" as our society's stance on sexual freedom (e.g. encourage and reward monogamy, but allow promiscuity if someone so chooses), but it seems there is no middle ground allowed on the abortion issue by ideologues on either side.
Meanwhile, capitalism is collapsing (and being intentionally pushed toward collapse by our own president), Islamic Extremists are trying to establish a Global Caliphate, socialists and communists are solidifying their grip on power . . . and here we are, arguing about condoms.
I think you argue against yourself a bit when you rightly suggest that the left would like to destroy the nuclear family and then seem to imply that the issue is not worthy of political discourse here:
Meanwhile, capitalism is collapsing (and being intentionally pushed toward collapse by our own president), Islamic Extremists are trying to establish a Global Caliphate, socialists and communists are solidifying their grip on power . . . and here we are, arguing about condoms.
| 309 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:22am |
re: #235 FurryOldGuyJeans
We had the Fiscal Conservatives show their displeasure by and large when a large chunk sat out the election, and so we get a blatant and overt SOCIALIST now in charge. Yeah, that worked out well, teaching the GOP a lesson.
John McCain was a strong fiscal conservative for his entire career in congress. It was Limbaugh, Ingraham, Coulter et al who lead the McCain bashing brigades during the primaries and the general election.
All 3 are more social cons than fiscal cons.
Yeah, McCain should have voted against TARP. The problem is, Romney and all the other mainstream GOP advisors were for it. Romney said at CPAC a few days ago that he still believes that TARP was necessary but has been implemented badly.
It was GW Bush's administration's bill. If McCain had voted against it, you would have heard all the sorry old crap about how McCain is the devil for opposing/criticizing GW Bush.
| 310 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:23am |
re: #285 Ford_Prefect
I think term limits are discussable. The counter-argument is that you need long-timers to provide institutional expertise, memory, and clout. Otherwise, nobody has enough knowledge or clout to get things done. Let's grant that, but say that the limit should be generously defined: 18 years for the Senate, and 10 years for the House unless one of your terms in the House is in a leadership position, in which case the limit would be 14 years. Would that do it?
| 311 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:48am |
| 312 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:25:51am |
UNC crushing Virginia Tech in the ACC tournament. They are DOWN by 3
| 314 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:26:08am |
re: #281 Kosh's Shadow
You will vote, Comrade, for the 0ne, every four years for the rest of your life.
Your community organizers will make sure of it.
/
And the Dear Leader will get 98% of the vote. Democratically, of course.
//////
| 315 |
yma o hyd Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:26:19am |
re: #306 ploome hineni
godfrey......if you are still here
who was King before King Arthur?
Uther Pendragon
:-)
| 316 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:26:25am |
re: #287 buzzsawmonkey
I do not want to see flaming rage melt Steele.
You missed an opportunity there. Instead, how about:
Ire has never melted Steele.
| 317 |
joncelli Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:03am |
Meh. He hasn't really been on my radar, but from what little I see he just has to figure out who the sacred cows in the GOP are, ignore them, and go after the Democrats. Enemy, Michael. Attack the ENEMY!
/I'll give him another chance but he has to straighten up.
| 318 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:17am |
re: #296 clgood
Anybody trying to argue that human life doesn't start at conception will have to ignore or rewrite every modern embryology textbook.
Which is entirely beside the point of whether our laws should provide protection to "human life" that is not born. That is a decision that our Constitution sets no guidance on. Therefore it is a subject that our Federal government has no authority to decide for any of us, short of amending our Constiution.
| 319 |
abaleh Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:18am |
| 320 |
yma o hyd Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:23am |
| 322 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:46am |
re: #259 Dave the.....
I agree, as it applies to actual social conservatives. It just seems their position is occasionally hijacked by those who want to impose their social views on how government should operate.
A possible example: compassionate conservatism - using government acquired monies to give to private sector social agencies (and creating a wide range of potential moral hazards). Rather than just not having the government acquire the monies in the first place. And of course this whole creationist agenda with public education.
| 323 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:49am |
re: #303 Kenneth
Yah, that's a better comparison. I don't mean to get behind this guy's project, by the way. I just find the internal tensions interesting, and exploitable.
| 324 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:27:57am |
re: #234 Sharmuta
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists. without them the economic conservatives would have been reduce to a handful a squabbling think tanks and country clubs twenty years ago. face it. you guys have FAILED to motivate significant numbers to vote for you. john mccain is a symbol of your failure. not mine.
| 325 |
joncelli Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:28:16am |
re: #312 Nevergiveup
[Sigh] They don't call them the Chokies for nothing.
| 327 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:28:25am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Ok, than can you give a little background info? Where did you hear this, you know, something that would possibly help us verify the statemesent.
Yes, a family member of mine is very close to him.
| 329 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:28:31am |
re: #291 LGoPs
You've got a point. Language, and the media. Nowadays any time they have a religious person in a movie (unless it's an Eastwood film) they're crazy, hypocritical, or both. Or they're repressed and MUST be liberated if they have a "traditional" family. Very tiresome...
| 330 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:05am |
re: #325 joncelli
[Sigh] They don't call them the Chokies for nothing.
We will see. Lawson is out for UNC today.
| 331 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:09am |
re: #259 Dave the.....
Horse, that is my take. Contrary to headlines, most social conservatives don't want new laws. Maybe I'm not that close to them, but outside of some pro-life issues, very rarely do I hear of a social conservative proposing legislation. It's more of a "leave us alone".
LOL. Um, you may have heard of this thing called Proposition 8 in California?
How about all the creationist bills these people are pushing? Those would be new laws.
| 332 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:15am |
re: #309 funky chicken
John McCain was a strong fiscal conservative for his entire career in congress. It was Limbaugh, Ingraham, Coulter et al who lead the McCain bashing brigades during the primaries and the general election.
All 3 are more social cons than fiscal cons.
Yeah, McCain should have voted against TARP. The problem is, Romney and all the other mainstream GOP advisors were for it. Romney said at CPAC a few days ago that he still believes that TARP was necessary but has been implemented badly.
It was GW Bush's administration's bill. If McCain had voted against it, you would have heard all the sorry old crap about how McCain is the devil for opposing/criticizing GW Bush.
So we continue the practice of eating our own simply because someone won't kowtow to the SoCon agenda.
| 333 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:22am |
re: #324 varmint
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists.
Okay I guess I am an independent.
| 334 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:31am |
re: #292 lobo91
There already is a religious war going on within Islam between extremists and whom they consider "apostates" & heretics. This would lead to yet more fighting, or perhaps give "modernists" (I prefer that term to "moderates") an ideology to rally around.
Frankly, I don't hold much hope for such a reformation happening anyway. The circular logic thing you mentioned is a huge stumbling block.
| 335 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:31am |
re: #259 Dave the.....
Horse, that is my take. Contrary to headlines, most social conservatives don't want new laws. Maybe I'm not that close to them, but outside of some pro-life issues, very rarely do I hear of a social conservative proposing legislation. It's more of a "leave us alone".
I gotta disagree with you:
Pro-life
Gay Marriage
Creationism
Just to name a few of the biggies.
| 336 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:33am |
re: #206 Kosh's Shadow
Well, I agree with you.
And that brings up some of the anti-abortion groups. If Operation Rescue really wanted to live up to their name, they would offer the women counseling, medical care, and support, and arrange for the child to be adopted if the mother wanted.
Give these people an alternative to abortion, instead of just attacking them.
But also educate them.
That's typically what local Catholic pro-life groups do (offer alternatives, counseling, free sonograms, adoption resources, financial support, etc.), like the White Rose Women's Center/St. Joseph's Helpers, here in Dallas.
| 337 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:35am |
re: #327 krisstingle
Yes, a family member of mine is very close to him.
I guess you are going to make a statement without being able to supply any supporting comments.
Stop wasting our time.
| 338 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:41am |
re: #305 Piglet-U93
I think it's very much like the Iraq campaign. We have to invest the time in winning hearts and minds. We haven't done that, otherwise those numbers would have reflected more of a change in the last 30 years. Of course, it's hard to win hearts and minds with righteous indignation and damnation. I am pro-life, but when recently speaking to other pro-lifers in the party about finding a better solution to this issue besides the call for a Constitutional amendment, I was called a RINO. Pretty unhelpful to alienate allies, even allies with a slightly different take, don't you think?
| 339 |
yma o hyd Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:29:47am |
re: #328 buzzsawmonkey
Little-known fact: King Arthur's father had terrible handwriting, which is where the surname "pen-draggin'" came from.
Yeah - thats what happens when one spends too much time fighting with swords ...
| 340 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:30:12am |
re: #309 funky chicken
John McCain was a strong fiscal conservative for his entire career in congress.
Sorry, but I must strongly disagree with that statement. While McCain was certainly a fighter against fraud, waste and abuse, he has always been a long way from fiscal conservatism. McCain is and always has been a big government Republican.
| 342 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:30:53am |
BBIAB - my contacts feel like sandpaper. Gonna take 'em out and put on glasses.
| 343 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:30:55am |
re: #306 ploome hineni
godfrey......if you are still herewho was King before King Arthur?
White Lily, I think.
| 344 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:09am |
I don't personally know any one pushing intellegient design, but I know a ton of people who think we shouldn't ban traditional American Christmas trees from public areas. At least not by ALCU lawsuit.
I don't personally know anyone pushing intellegent design, but I know quite a few people who don't think we should have taxpayer funded abortions, or at least not have that ordered by ALCU lawsuit.
It's more of them just wanting to live their lives and not have to be forced to accept and support others lifestyles.
| 345 |
Intifan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:11am |
re: #338 Sharmuta
Just the thought of allowing the states to decide for themselves makes a lot of people foam at the mouth.
| 346 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:36am |
re: #310 godfrey
I think term limits are discussable. The counter-argument is that you need long-timers to provide institutional expertise, memory, and clout. Otherwise, nobody has enough knowledge or clout to get things done. Let's grant that, but say that the limit should be generously defined: 18 years for the Senate, and 10 years for the House unless one of your terms in the House is in a leadership position, in which case the limit would be 14 years. Would that do it?
It is a starting point. I tend to think 12 years for the Senate, but I can see the argument for 18. I would likely drop the numbers for the House, though. 10 years is 5 election cycles, too many for someone who is going to vote on a basis of getting reelected. I would guess that what would happen, anyway, is that the Representatives will likely run for the Senate seats that are vacated in their states. By your numbers someone could still end up in Washington for 30 years, not counting a Presidential run or cabinet appointment. that is too long in my opinion.
| 347 |
debutaunt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:37am |
re: #157 Afrocity
From what I see here, it looks like Obama will get a second term.
I makes me wonder who the dems will choose for us to run next time.
| 348 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:53am |
re: #324 varmint
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists. without them the economic conservatives would have been reduce to a handful a squabbling think tanks and country clubs twenty years ago. face it. you guys have FAILED to motivate significant numbers to vote for you. john mccain is a symbol of your failure. not mine.
Please excplain the *you guys* statement?
| 349 |
Kragar Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:31:53am |
| 350 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:32:23am |
re: #333 Afrocity
Okay I guess I am an independent.
I always have been. The attitudes expressed regarding Steele and his apparent repudiation of the SoCon agenda have been common all my voting life.
| 351 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:32:40am |
re: #308 eschew_obfuscation
I think you argue against yourself a bit when you rightly suggest that the left would like to destroy the nuclear family and then seem to imply that the issue is not worthy of political discourse here:
Well, yes, you're right: I make the point that the Leftists are trying to destroy the nuclear family, and then simultaneously argue that it's not an important issue. But here's why: I think the Leftists are wrong in their theory that encouraging promiscuity will necessarily destroy the nuclear family. The urge for monogamous relationships is not a "social construct" as they posit, but rather is hardwired into our genes. So, try as they might with their sexual anarchy agenda, it will never succeed in getting rid of the family structure.
So, yes, it is an issue we might grapple with when things are not in such a crisis, but on the scale of things, in my opinion, it's a pretty minor compared to the pressing issues of the day.
| 352 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:32:44am |
re: #344 Dave the.....
Teaching the "weaknesses of evolution" is in the Minnesota state party platform.
| 353 |
tackle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:32:52am |
re: #331 funky chicken
LOL. Um, you may have heard of this thing called Proposition 8 in California?
How about all the creationist bills these people are pushing? Those would be new laws.
I would agree with you re: the creationist stuff, but I'm not sure about Prop 8. Wasn't it about someone trying to clarify/define existing law, to say nothing about encroaching on religious freedom.
| 354 |
gmsc Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:32:55am |
OT: Charles, if you want to do an ID/evolution thread, today is an interesting day to do it. It was 84 years ago today that a Tennessee law prohibiting the teaching of evolution in public schools went into effect. This is the same law that led to the famous Scopes Monkey Trial.
| 355 |
Lynn B. Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:01am |
re: #337 Walter L. Newton
I guess you are going to make a statement without being able to supply any supporting comments.
Stop wasting our time.
Why don't you just try Google yourself, Walter? It's not that hard.
The report appears to be correct.
| 356 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:07am |
re: #324 varmint
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists. without them the economic conservatives would have been reduce to a handful a squabbling think tanks and country clubs twenty years ago. face it. you guys have FAILED to motivate significant numbers to vote for you. john mccain is a symbol of your failure. not mine.
If you had/have been here for any amount of time, you would know McCain was NOT a very popular choice here.
| 357 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:09am |
re: #305 Piglet-U93
re: #234 SharmutaI disagree and it's the great LIE of the pro-lifers. Those who think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances are the minority in this country. The GOP alienates the majority of Americans and demonizes them just to pander to a vocal minority.
You are right a majority think it is ok for women to murder their unborn child.
Nicely demonstrated there Piglet, you make Sharmuta's point very well. So I ask you, will the Democrat majorities that are in and will stay in control as a result of the ongoing schism in the GOP be more amenable to advancing your agenda?
| 358 |
gmsc Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:44am |
re: #349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Uther
Tougher question: How many sides does a Pendragon have?
;)
| 359 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:45am |
re: #355 Lynn B.
Why don't you just try Google yourself, Walter? It's not that hard.
The report appears to be correct.
Sorry, I found it while I was waiting. Thanks for the added links.
| 360 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:50am |
re: #323 godfrey
I'm all for it. Get rid of all the submission, violence, jihad, misogyny and Jew hatred. Fine and dandy. I just don't see that happening for a long, long time.
| 361 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:33:54am |
re: #350 FurryOldGuyJeans
I always have been. The attitudes expressed regarding Steele and his apparent repudiation of the SoCon agenda have been common all my voting life.
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
| 363 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:34:19am |
re: #347 debutaunt
I makes me wonder who the dems will choose for us to run next time.
That's why we need to unite and do our own choosing.
| 365 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:34:47am |
re: #337 Walter L. Newton
I guess you are going to make a statement without being able to supply any supporting comments.
Stop wasting our time.
Sorry you think i am wasting your time Walter,truly that was not my intention.
| 366 |
Gus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:34:58am |
re: #277 FurryOldGuyJeans
I know a few that didn't even wait for April 15th, but they felt it was necessary for Obama to win so the GOP could be "resurrected" with a Reaganesque "Saviour" just like 1980.
I remember that theory being tossed around last summer. Let McCain lose and re-group for 2010 but most importantly, 2012. As it stands now this "regrouping" seems to have fallen apart quite rapidly. Whatever happens (either Steele stays or goes, etc.) the mechanizations are set in place and I don't see any of these contentions and bickering from the social conservatives and the non social conservatives will not go away any time soon.
This at a time when the White House is conducting a strong media campaign against the GOP and succefully deflecting any responsibility for the current economic state. These attacks came into plane view in their campaign against Rush Limbaugh which is not dependent on how one feels about Limbaugh.
Currently, this campaign continues but now includes GOP congressional members and has now seemed to expanded into the media itself: i.e. CNBC, Cramer, et al. The political ability of Axelrod, Emanuel, Gibbs, Obama and others should not be underestimated especially if you consider their underground connections within the media itself.
Finally, waiting for another "Reagan" is pointless. It's 2009 and times have certainly changed and it is doubtful that he would even be accepted today. At this time there is not one single mercurial politician available to the GOP today. Waiting for another Reagan is a lot like waiting for another Elvis or Dali.
/Just some rambling thoughts.
| 367 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:00am |
re: #361 Afrocity
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
Perhaps you should consider voting issues, not person.
| 368 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:01am |
re: #324 varmint
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists. without them the economic conservatives would have been reduce to a handful a squabbling think tanks and country clubs twenty years ago. face it. you guys have FAILED to motivate significant numbers to vote for you. john mccain is a symbol of your failure. not mine.
Please pull your head out! The only reason we were stuck with McCain was because all of you religious righteous types sided with Huckleberry (who is as much of a conservative as Arlen Specter) and sank Romney's chance to be our nominee.
| 369 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:04am |
re: #333 Afrocity
Okay I guess I am an independent.
EXACTLY their problem. Likewise, I have been considering myself an independent that last few years. Any cause that claims it is the sole reason of existence for one of the only two major political parties in our country is a cause that will do much more damage to the party than assistance.
| 372 |
itellu3times Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:13am |
re: #352 Sharmuta
Teaching the "weaknesses of evolution" is in the Minnesota state party platform.
Teaching the weaknesses of the Minnesota state party platform is evolution.
| 373 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:21am |
Prop 8 was introduced because of Judical Activism. Was it 3 judges? that made a law that changed society. It gets back to wanting to be left alone. If judges didn't make laws, then Prop 8 never would have been introduced.
| 374 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:36am |
re: #338 Sharmuta
I think it's very much like the Iraq campaign. We have to invest the time in winning hearts and minds. We haven't done that, otherwise those numbers would have reflected more of a change in the last 30 years. Of course, it's hard to win hearts and minds with righteous indignation and damnation. I am pro-life, but when recently speaking to other pro-lifers in the party about finding a better solution to this issue besides the call for a Constitutional amendment, I was called a RINO. Pretty unhelpful to alienate allies, even allies with a slightly different take, don't you think?
You're right, changing laws won't end abortion; changing hearts and minds will.
| 375 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:42am |
re: #365 krisstingle
Sorry you think i am wasting your time Walter,truly that was not my intention.
I'm sorry.
| 376 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:46am |
re: #362 buzzsawmonkey
My mind isn't made up. I don't see it as a panacea. I see it more like democracy insurance.
| 377 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:47am |
re: #277 FurryOldGuyJeans
I know a few that didn't even wait for April 15th, but they felt it was necessary for Obama to win so the GOP could be "resurrected" with a Reaganesque "Saviour" just like 1980.
Ugh....yeah, the "vote for Obama for the good of the Conservative Movement" crowd. Who cares what's good for the country, right?
| 378 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:35:53am |
re: #346 Ford_Prefect
It is a starting point. I tend to think 12 years for the Senate, but I can see the argument for 18. I would likely drop the numbers for the House, though. 10 years is 5 election cycles, too many for someone who is going to vote on a basis of getting reelected. I would guess that what would happen, anyway, is that the Representatives will likely run for the Senate seats that are vacated in their states. By your numbers someone could still end up in Washington for 30 years, not counting a Presidential run or cabinet appointment. that is too long in my opinion.
I've also thought that a single 6 year presidential term might be worth discussing. Not an original thought on my part - heard it years ago.
Biggest advantage would be that it would eliminate the campaigning (and the impact on decision-making) for the 2nd term that starts earlier and earlier.......
Just a thought.
| 379 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:36:08am |
| 380 |
Spartacus50 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:36:29am |
Michael Steele is Exhibit A of the Iron Law of Black Republicans: They never win
| 381 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:36:55am |
DA/DT
In a statement released on Thursday, Moran said the discharged soldiers included an intelligence collector, a military police officer, four infantry personnel, a health care specialist, a motor-transport operator and a water-treatment specialist.
"How many more good soldiers are we willing to lose due to a bad policy that makes us less safe and secure?" asked Moran, a member of the House panel that oversees military spending.
The Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was instituted after President Bill Clinton tried to lift the ban on gay service members in 1993. It refers to the military practice of not asking recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members are banned from saying they are gay or bisexual, engaging in homosexual activity or trying to marry a member of the same sex.
The military discharged nearly 10,000 service members under the policy in a 10-year period, from 1997 to 2007. The number fired each year dropped sharply after the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, when forces were stretched thin. Whereas more than 1,200 were dismissed in 2000 and again in 2001 for violating the policy, about half as many — 627 — were fired in 2007.
SNIP
| 382 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:37:07am |
re: #351 zombie
Well, yes, you're right: I make the point that the Leftists are trying to destroy the nuclear family, and then simultaneously argue that it's not an important issue. But here's why: I think the Leftists are wrong in their theory that encouraging promiscuity will necessarily destroy the nuclear family. The urge for monogamous relationships is not a "social construct" as they posit, but rather is hardwired into our genes. So, try as they might with their sexual anarchy agenda, it will never succeed in getting rid of the family structure.
So, yes, it is an issue we might grapple with when things are not in such a crisis, but on the scale of things, in my opinion, it's a pretty minor compared to the pressing issues of the day.
I like your answer and I believe you're right.
| 384 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:37:26am |
| 385 |
Gus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:37:29am |
re: #361 Afrocity
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
Don't worry. You're not alone. The Republican party is homeless as well.
| 386 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:37:31am |
re: #357 CyanSnowHawk
Nicely demonstrated there Piglet, you make Sharmuta's point very well. So I ask you, will the Democrat majorities that are in and will stay in control as a result of the ongoing schism in the GOP be more amenable to advancing your agenda?
Murder is a legal term referring to the UNLAWFUL taking of a human life. Whatever your opinion about what it is that is destroyed during an abortion, it is a LAWFUL act and so the term "murder" is simply an inflammatory epithet.
| 387 |
yma o hyd Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:37:59am |
re: #338 Sharmuta
I think it's very much like the Iraq campaign. We have to invest the time in winning hearts and minds. We haven't done that, otherwise those numbers would have reflected more of a change in the last 30 years.
Good point!
You don't have the time to wait for a groundswell of opinion change in the population - you don;t have the time to waste on infighting.
I realise that the situation in the GOP and the USA is totally different from that in the UK and the Tory Party - but look how long it took us!
The infighting was fierce, the top issue was not abortion but the EU - and we lost three party leaders during that time, good men.
It is indeed about winning back the voters - and that can only be done about core issues. The GOP has to decide which they are - and imho they cannot be tied to religion in any way, they have to be tied to the economy, to welfare and to foreign politics.
Why is it impossible to get designated speakers for these points?
Jeff Bush proposed this - why is nothing done?
Steele should be the organiser, behind the scense - not heard, not even seen.
Go on like you are right now and say hello to sixteen years of socialism, because you won't win anything.
Sorry to be so harsh.
| 388 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:00am |
re: #361 Afrocity
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
The parties and party leaders seem to expect rote, by the letter, voting, and I won't do that. I have never been homeless, been a Conservative Independent. If either party represents having a home, I am proud to be a red-headed bastard orphan.
| 389 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:01am |
re: #358 gmsc
Tougher question: How many sides does a Pendragon have?
;)
Two - an inside and an outside.
But how do you get the dragon to stay inside the pen?
| 390 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:03am |
re: #344 Dave the.....
I don't personally know any one pushing intellegient design, but I know a ton of people who think we shouldn't ban traditional American Christmas trees from public areas. At least not by ALCU lawsuit.
I don't personally know anyone pushing intellegent design, but I know quite a few people who don't think we should have taxpayer funded abortions, or at least not have that ordered by ALCU lawsuit.
It's more of them just wanting to live their lives and not have to be forced to accept and support others lifestyles.
Just because you don't know any IDers does not mean that this is not a serious issue.
| 391 |
yochanan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:06am |
frankly if M. Steel is forced to withdraw I WILL BE FELLOWING HIM OUT THE DOOR.
| 392 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:27am |
re: #362 buzzsawmonkey
Term limits are a bandaid on a leprosy sore. Their purpose is to provide an automatic corrective for people who are unwilling to take the time to look after their own governance, and like all automatic correctives they will not do what they are intended to do.
I disagree, Buzz. With the current system it is too easy for those in power to stay in power. There needs to be new blood and new ideas in Washington, and we are not getting enough of that. Furthermore, when someone new does come along and try to make real changes those that have been there forever and are in positions of authority, squash the new person. It has to stop.
| 393 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:27am |
re: #333 Afrocity
you and ralph nader will be very happy together.
| 394 |
kynna Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:38:39am |
Steele is pretty damaged. But I can see the shouting of 'racist!' if he's canned. Not because he was canned, mind you, but they'll say it was a shallow, racist hiring. Shoot maybe it was. I didn't think so at the time, but what do I know?
I actually liked him a lot and I was glad to see him in this position. But he's really bungled it. He started out pretty good, but he doesn't seem to be able to get through an interview without saying something he's going to regret.
Main thing I'd like to see him do is encourage a change in the primary process so the Dems don't choose our candidate next time. Cut them out of our process. Of course, I can see those pigs changing their registration (since their nom is all sewn up already) just to mess with us, but we'll get fewer than last time at least.
Steele needs to do something really productive with the future of the party in mind. He needs to take on this census nonsense and demand that the entire idea be investigated. He needs to take on pork and stand with the American people. Give a thumbs up at least to the protestors.
That's the way he can save himself (and future political career) from this debacle. By DOING something.
I didn't vote. I'm with Sharmuta. I'll go with Ron Paul for now.
| 395 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:07am |
re: #365 krisstingle
Sorry you think i am wasting your time Walter,truly that was not my intention.
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
| 396 |
essayons7 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:08am |
An individual who opposes abortion on moral grounds cannot make the politically expedient argument that there are 2 separate issues here: moral and political.
I find it hard to comprehend voting for someone/thing that I oppose morally, simply because I am on the least popular side.
As far as Steele goes, I vote that he stay, but I also vote that he re-evaluate his beliefs on abortion and decide what he supports.
| 397 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:08am |
re: #388 FurryOldGuyJeans
Red-Headed Bastard Orphan Party? :)
| 398 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:16am |
Considering that many SoCons decided to "punish" the Republican party after the Foley "sex" scandal and handed the congress to Pelosi, and then many stayed home because McCain (with a lifelong pro life voting record) didn't meet the litmus test, I feel confident in saying 2 things:
(1) Steele should be held on to demonstrate that the Republican Party is not ideologically hide bound and wants a "big tent" again, and
(2) my number (1) will not happen.
| 399 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:27am |
re: #338 Sharmuta
"..about finding a better solution to this issue besides the call for a Constitutional amendment.."
If you do not have an alternative solution how can you suggest not pursuing an amendment? Anyways, as it stands now an amendment would never pass especially with recent decades of liberal agenda being taught in our schools.
IMHO, a nation cannot long survive that murders its own children. Others will disagree up to the very end of their own bloodline.
| 400 |
doppelganglander Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:28am |
OT: Has anyone got a link I could use to deprogram a friend who thinks Alex Jones is a legitimate commentator?
| 401 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:39:41am |
re: #324 varmint
the pro lifers are the only reason this party still exists. without them the economic conservatives would have been reduce to a handful a squabbling think tanks and country clubs twenty years ago. face it. you guys have FAILED to motivate significant numbers to vote for you. john mccain is a symbol of your failure. not mine.
A pro-life only stance must be a non-starter or the GOP is doomed. And it is the height of government intrusion into private life, so I don't even know why it's associated with the GOP.
| 402 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:01am |
re: #351 zombie
They won't succeed in eliminating the family, but they will cause a whole lot of pain & suffering for all the children born to dysfunctional post-modern social units & alternative families.
| 403 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:10am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The
statestatement about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
PIMF
| 404 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:20am |
| 405 |
tackle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:36am |
re: #361 Afrocity
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
Not so fast. I appreciate your point of view. That's the great thing about this forum. We can have an (mostly) intelligent debate on issues here, and while I don't agree with everyone, I think the larger issues that affect our country are far larger than any minutiae that may separate us.
| 406 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:36am |
re: #367 Walter L. Newton
Perhaps you should consider voting issues, not person.
I never did that Walter. Pro-choice is the only reason I stayed with DEMs as long as I did. After eating the rest of the garbage on their plates for my entire life, I decided that that ONE issue was not enough to keep me there, Nor was the liberal lie that they are more for "da black man"
I voted for McCain because I agreed with him on the issues more so than Obama.
That being said in terms of issues I cannot vote for Jindal if he is the GOP nominee, so like I said I will most likely sit 2012 out.
| 407 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:38am |
re: #362 buzzsawmonkey
Term limits are a bandaid on a leprosy sore. Their purpose is to provide an automatic corrective for people who are unwilling to take the time to look after their own governance, and like all automatic correctives they will not do what they are intended to do.
In addition, term limits are a restriction on our right to elect who we want. It may sound like a good idea to some, but I am not one for advocating more of our rights, especially at the voting booth (McCain and Feingold have caused a lifetime's worth of damage there already).
| 408 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:40:42am |
re: #402 Kenneth
All the better to feed the omnicompetent Nanny State with!
| 410 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:41:02am |
I think the real irony here is the Religious Right's desire to subvert biology education in this country with intelligent design instead of evolution. It is through biology that I believe the miraculous process of Life begins at conception.
| 412 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:41:15am |
re: #366 Gus 802
I harbor the HOPE as Obama's numbers continue to fall, that he will, as Jimmy Carter did in the 70's, push the country to the right by disgusting the electorate with his leftist failures. My only hesitation is that I don't want the concomitant stagflation, high interest rates, and destruction of our military forces.
| 413 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:41:16am |
re: #377 funky chicken
Ugh....yeah, the "vote for Obama for the good of the Conservative Movement" crowd. Who cares what's good for the country, right?
No, it wasn't a "Vote for Obama"; it was a "Don't Vote for ANYBODY".
| 414 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:41:17am |
re: #400 doppelganglander
OT: Has anyone got a link I could use to deprogram a friend who thinks Alex Jones is a legitimate commentator?
Ues his own site! Also, go to Michelle Malkin's site to find the video of him hounding her during the Democratic convention.
| 415 |
lobo91 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:03am |
re: #334 Kenneth
There already is a religious war going on within Islam between extremists and whom they consider "apostates" & heretics. This would lead to yet more fighting, or perhaps give "modernists" (I prefer that term to "moderates") an ideology to rally around.
Frankly, I don't hold much hope for such a reformation happening anyway. The circular logic thing you mentioned is a huge stumbling block.
There are plenty of internal fights within the Islamic world, and there alway have been. Hell, the main reason the Saudi royal family gives so much money to the Wahabis is so they'll go kill foreigners instead of them, for being insufficiently "Islamic."
I suspect that any wholesale attempt to rewrite Islamic doctrine would make things worse, not better. Right now, you have a small percentage of hardliners who are actually willing to fight/kill for their beliefs, and a significant plurality who won't actually get their hands dirty, but agree with/materially support them. Rewriting the Koran would probably cause a good portion of that group to shift into the active camp.
While they might direct their attacks primarily toward those declared to be takfiri, things would get awfully messy as a result (think Pakistan).
| 416 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:03am |
re: #361 Afrocity
Yeah, looks like I am politically homeless again.
Maybe you can join Zombie's party. When Zombie decides what the Zombie-platform will look like, that is.
| 417 |
Sunlight Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:22am |
I'm dismayed by pretty much all of the "litmus test" items. If a person is a responsible citizen, earns their own living, leaves other people alone... this is America! The rest is a compiled package with an overall score given by each voter in the voting booth. The voters need to be convinced, not bullied. I think Mr. Steele has the right idea; he *is* the case for keeping babies. When you read history, women have always had a (sometimes extremely dangerous to themselves) choice. Mr. Steele is a perfect example of a mom choosing to give the baby its life. And look how the world benefits.
| 418 |
MJ Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:43am |
David Frum has an interesting piece in Newsweek which is germane to the Steel story:
Why Rush is Wrong
The party of Buckley and Reagan is now bereft and dominated by the politics of Limbaugh. A conservative's lament.
Here's just one small part of what he writes:
"We need to modulate our social conservatism (not jettison—modulate). The GOP will remain a predominantly conservative party and a predominantly pro-life party. But especially on gay-rights issues, the under-30 generation has arrived at a new consensus. Our party seems to be running to govern a country that no longer exists. The rule that both our presidential and vice presidential candidates must always be pro-life has become counterproductive: McCain's only hope of winning the presidency in 2008 was to carry Pennsylvania, and yet Pennsylvania's most successful Republican vote winner, former governor Tom Ridge, was barred from the ticket because he's pro-choice ..."
[Link: www.newsweek.com...]
| 419 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:45am |
Do socons have a label for non-socons? Just curious.
| 420 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:42:46am |
re: #373 Dave the.....
Prop 8 was introduced because of Judical Activism. Was it 3 judges? that made a law that changed society. It gets back to wanting to be left alone. If judges didn't make laws, then Prop 8 never would have been introduced.
Sorry, you are wrong. Prop 8 was put on the ballot as a state constitutional amendment because the prior gay-marriage ban legislation, was overturned. Prop 8 was a second attempt at banning gay marriage and sought to close the legal loopholes of the previous initiative.
| 421 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:02am |
re: #414 MandyManners
It's been a while since I saw that - weren't Jones and his band of wackos actually SPITTING on Malkin?
/Yeah, he's sane.
| 422 |
LGoPs Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:23am |
re: #362 buzzsawmonkey
Term limits are a bandaid on a leprosy sore. Their purpose is to provide an automatic corrective for people who are unwilling to take the time to look after their own governance, and like all automatic correctives they will not do what they are intended to do.
You make a good point but I'm not sure of the alternative. I consider myself fairly well read and engaged and I find the blizzard of referendums that are common in California to be barely understandable in many cases. And I worry that my vote is not always the right one. I know that referendums don't occur everywhere but I use them as an example. Whether cynical or not, I don't see the majority of people out there taking the time to become informed and make intelligent decisions.
I despair sometimes and wonder if Democracy is all it's cracked up to be. especially in an age of overwhelming media manipulation.......
Of course I can't offer a better alternative.
| 424 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:26am |
re: #391 yochanan
frankly if M. Steel is forced to withdraw I WILL BE FELLOWING HIM OUT THE DOOR.
If you do go you'll most likely find me on the other side of the door. ;)
| 425 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:53am |
So by removing the social conservatives from the Republican party, then they can go from getting 45% of the votes (nationally) to 30%. If the UAW continues to vote for the party of global warming and distruction of Michigan, then those who should vote Republican will never switch no matter who we remove.
| 426 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:56am |
re: #310 godfrey
I think term limits are discussable. The counter-argument is that you need long-timers to provide institutional expertise, memory, and clout. Otherwise, nobody has enough knowledge or clout to get things done. Let's grant that, but say that the limit should be generously defined: 18 years for the Senate, and 10 years for the House unless one of your terms in the House is in a leadership position, in which case the limit would be 14 years. Would that do it?
That would have interesting effects on competition to get those leadership positions. Might be better to keep them all the same if you want to go the term limits route.
| 427 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:43:57am |
re: #399 Piglet-U93
"..about finding a better solution to this issue besides the call for a Constitutional amendment.."
If you do not have an alternative solution how can you suggest not pursuing an amendment? Anyways, as it stands now an amendment would never pass especially with recent decades of liberal agenda being taught in our schools.
IMHO, a nation cannot long survive that murders its own children. Others will disagree up to the very end of their own bloodline.
Just do like Reagan and Bush have done. Don't use Federal funds for abortions, allow doctors, hospitals, and pharmacists a conscience exemption, and leave existing States' restrictions in place. Don't try to outlaw them, but at the same time don't encourage them or fund them.
| 428 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:02am |
re: #421 Chicago Blonde
It's been a while since I saw that - weren't Jones and his band of wackos actually SPITTING on Malkin?
/Yeah, he's sane.
You might have him confused with Mr. Tact, a/k/a Geraldo Rivera.
| 429 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:08am |
re: #419 Taqiyyotomist
Do socons have a label for non-socons? Just curious.
The term they have for us is "Liberals," I think.
| 430 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:16am |
re: #399 Piglet-U93
If you do not have an alternative solution how can you suggest not pursuing an amendment?
Just because I didn't discuss my alternative doesn't mean I lack one. I said I discussed my alternative ideas with others and was called a RINO.
| 431 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:25am |
re: #407 MJBrutus
In addition, term limits are a restriction on our right to elect who we want.
I don't know. The lack of term limits means the likes of Specter and Dodd and Kennedy can become so fixed and bloated that their presence makes it nearly impossible to elect them out. It becomes de facto one-party rule. That's not healthy.
| 432 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:27am |
re: #356 Nevergiveup
only four or five years.
mccain did his level best to alienate the religious right. and in what twisted logic is it their fault that he lost? you give the finger to a voting block, and then get all snippy when they stay home?
and what is the great plan to win over obama voters? other than wait for his policies to fail and hope.
| 433 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:31am |
| 434 |
Lynn B. Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:32am |
re: #373 Dave the.....
Prop 8 was introduced because of Judical Activism. Was it 3 judges? that made a law that changed society. It gets back to wanting to be left alone. If judges didn't make laws, then Prop 8 never would have been introduced.
No, Prop 8 was introduced because the California Supreme Court found the law prohibiting same-sex marriage to be in violation of the State Constitution. That isn't "judicial activism." You just don't like the result.
No problem. The answer was to try to amend the State Constitution so that such laws would no longer violate it. Apparently, enough people in California felt this to be a worthwhile endeavor and voted to do so. That's how the system works.
| 435 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:44:58am |
re: #419 Taqiyyotomist
Do socons have a label for non-socons? Just curious.
I don't. Never really thought about it.
| 436 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:45:13am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
What makes his marriages annullable ?
| 437 |
Sharmuta Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:45:22am |
re: #419 Taqiyyotomist
Do socons have a label for non-socons? Just curious.
Yes- they call us RINOS.
| 438 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:45:55am |
re: #428 MandyManners
Sorry.
I know Jones is a nut but I don't want to spread anything false about anyone.
| 439 |
Gus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:05am |
re: #427 Ward Cleaver
Just do like Reagan and Bush have done. Don't use Federal funds for abortions, allow doctors, hospitals, and pharmacists a conscience exemption, and leave existing States' restrictions in place. Don't try to outlaw them, but at the same time don't encourage them or fund them.
That's a workable solution that has worked. Of course there would have to be exemptions for emergency care.
| 440 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:06am |
re: #402 Kenneth
They won't succeed in eliminating the family, but they will cause a whole lot of pain & suffering for all the children born to dysfunctional post-modern social units & alternative families.
What's more important: The collapse of the global capitalist system; a socialist in the White House undermining our country from within; Islamic extremists doing their damnedest to take over the world; a nuclear-armed Iran blackmailing the West into submission; [etc. etc. etc.]; or some children suffering with dysfunctional social units?
Not to say that unnecessarily social tinkering isn't a problem -- it is -- only that it is superceded at the moment by bigger problems. It is THOSE issues (financial sanity; foreign policy vigorousness) which should be a "litmus test", not some off-topic social issue. I could give a flying f*ck what Michael Steel thinks about abortion.
| 441 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:15am |
re: #405 tackle
Not so fast. I appreciate your point of view. That's the great thing about this forum. We can have an (mostly) intelligent debate on issues here, and while I don't agree with everyone, I think the larger issues that affect our country are far larger than any minutiae that may separate us.
Well this year I have been told I am not a Real:
Republican (because I am pro choice)
woman (because I voted for McCain)
black person ( because I voted for McCain)
I am def not a DEM because I am fiscally conservative...
Not Green Party because I don't recycle
| 442 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:16am |
re: #408 godfrey
As a wise woman once said,
"There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families."
| 443 |
echelon321 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:17am |
I voted no. He called Rush Limbaugh "ugly and incendiary" before sort-of apologizing. He agreed with the statement that the recent GOP convention looked like "Nazi Germany" before sort-of apologizing. He attacked Bush anonymously while his campaign stated that he strongly supported him. Now he's espoused his personal preference of "individual choice" and then sort-of-apologized.
Regardless of whether you agree with either side of his "views", he has not demonstrated the character and fortitude that the GOP needs right now. Pick a side and run with it, man. My preference would be if you ran with the side that you are supposedly appointed to support.
| 444 |
Kragar Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:29am |
| 445 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:44am |
re: #428 MandyManners
You might have him confused with
Mr. TactButthead, a/k/a Geraldo Rivera.
FTFY (and I know that it's technically accurate too.)
| 446 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:54am |
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
| 447 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:46:58am |
re: #438 Chicago Blonde
Sorry.
I know Jones is a nut but I don't want to spread anything false about anyone.
Jones is good at that!
| 448 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:12am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
If his first two marriages were not in the Church, then I think what he would get is a decree of nullity, not an actual Catholic annullment.
| 449 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:29am |
re: #446 jjmckay1216
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
Pres. Bush wasn't a freakin' narcissist.
| 450 |
Racer X Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:38am |
I am not a member of any political party. I am not blind to the FACT that many politicians are scumbags. I barely tolerate them. Few are noble.
I'm not going to squeeze my ass into the GOP pigeon hole.
I vote for who I like on the issues I agree with.
There. I said it.
| 451 |
zombie Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:42am |
unnecessarily social tinkering = unnecessary social tinkering
| 452 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:42am |
| 453 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:47:58am |
re: #416 EmmmieG
Maybe you can join Zombie's party. When Zombie decides what the Zombie-platform will look like, that is.
LOL, I can not wait to read it. I still vote for Rational Independence. I have been using it with family and friends of various political persuasions and it seems to resonate. The goal is to preserve as much of our independence as possible while undertaking only the rationally supported government functions.
| 454 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:48:11am |
re: #438 Chicago Blonde
Sorry.
I know Jones is a nut but I don't want to spread anything false about anyone.
Chicago blond I am speaking in public tomorrow...if you want to see me. Ah, nevermind this cold makes my voice sound like Kermit so you will not be missing anything. I wont be my best.
| 456 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:48:12am |
re: #446 jjmckay1216
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
Is he crowing about how much Wall St loves him now? Not the he pays attention to the gyrations or anything.
| 457 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:48:13am |
re: #409 buzzsawmonkey
The portion of your post above that I have bolded is our best bet for getting through the next 4 years with as little damage as possible.
The inertia of entrenched interests is a blessing as well as a curse.
Perhaps, but who is we are fighting? The entrenched ones on the other side. Pelosi (22 years), Reid (27 years), Kerry (25 years), Kennedy (47 years), Barney Frank (27 years).
| 458 |
Nevergiveup Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:48:22am |
re: #432 varmint
only four or five years.
mccain did his level best to alienate the religious right. and in what twisted logic is it their fault that he lost? you give the finger to a voting block, and then get all snippy when they stay home?
and what is the great plan to win over obama voters? other than wait for his policies to fail and hope.
You said we picked McCain as our candidate. That is all I was commenting about. He was NOT the candidate of most of the people here on LGFs.
| 459 |
MandyManners Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:48:55am |
Ooh! Stem-cell research. When do we get to discuss Terry Schiavo or The Passion of the Christ?
*rad*
| 460 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:00am |
re: #420 Russkilitlover
Sorry, you are wrong. Prop 8 was put on the ballot as a state constitutional amendment because the prior gay-marriage ban legislation, was overturned. Prop 8 was a second attempt at banning gay marriage and sought to close the legal loopholes of the previous initiative.
I think you just made Dave's point. The will of the people was clear and the judiciary attempted to overturn it by fiat. Prop 8 just restored it.
| 461 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:02am |
re: #357 CyanSnowHawk
Nicely demonstrated there Piglet, you make Sharmuta's point very well. So I ask you, will the Democrat majorities that are in and will stay in control as a result of the ongoing schism in the GOP be more amenable to advancing your agenda?
The DEMS want chaos and disunity which allows them to advance their agenda without significant resistance. For instance, the DEMS align with Islam not because they really support them but because conservatives see the Islam as a threat.
The DEMS will not turn Pro-Life ever, IMHO. Muslims will always support Abortion but will also never practice it.
| 462 |
kansas Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:05am |
Steele is a poor choice of spokesman for any party apparently. He embarrassed himself on the DL Dipshit show by accepting the premise of Dipshit's questions. Check out Ari Fleischer sparring with Chris Matthews on Powerline if you want to see someone who can defend his positions and actually debate with these dishonest morons.
| 463 |
turn Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:12am |
re: #384 krisstingle
Hey you're kind of new, never seen a comment from you until just now. I followed them back upthread. First off, I like your nic (I despise Chrissie). Secondly, don't let Walter intimidate you, that apology he gave you is very rare so I think he realized he was being an a@#. Finally, do you know Newt too?
| 464 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:15am |
re: #446 jjmckay1216
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
I won't bother to watch. He sounds the same everytime. Just reply some other speech and you pretty much have it all.
| 465 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:17am |
re: #436 Wishing
What makes his marriages annullable ?
Some kind of impediment, like cases where the woman is pregnant, and the husband (or wife) are pressured into marrying against their will, or cases of infidelity (the so-called "Pauline privilege"), things like that. It doesn't make the children illegitimate, it just shows that there was an impediment (that's the Canon law term) to a free and valid marriage.
| 466 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:28am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
Sorry, but that makes me think less of the RC church. Some commitment to the sanctity of marriage. BARF
| 467 |
Last Mohican Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:37am |
re: #413 FurryOldGuyJeans
No, it wasn't a "Vote for Obama"; it was a "Don't Vote for ANYBODY".
Same thing.
Exactly the same thing.
| 468 |
Racer X Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:49:44am |
re: #446 jjmckay1216
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
Very true.
Bush gave speeches all the time. The media ignored them - refused to broadcast them.
| 470 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:50:08am |
re: #441 Afrocity
Well this year I have been told I am not a Real:
Republican (because I am pro choice)
woman (because I voted for McCain)
black person ( because I voted for McCain)
I am def not a DEM because I am fiscally conservative...
Not Green Party because I don't recycle
I don't listen to how other people TRY to define what I am; I do it all myself. I tend to vote Republican simply because the candidates support most of what I want. I am a Conservative and an Independent. Call me a Republican and you WILL have a fight on your hands. ;)
| 471 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:50:09am |
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
Geesh, I walk by a TV everyday around 10-1 or so (getting lunch, gabbing a pop, on my way to meetings etc), and EVERYDAY The One is on live. Or maybe CNN replay but from the same day.
Is it his ego? Is he board? Is he still campaigning?
| 473 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:50:46am |
re: #454 Afrocity
I'd love to - but I'm actually in a 'burb (easier & safer for me to say Chicago).
But...after I get a suitable anti-Che shirt after Lent maybe we can count liberal heads 'sploding... :)
Hey - do you have echinacea tea? Tastes crap but I swear by it.
| 474 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:50:51am |
re: #432 varmint
only four or five years.
mccain did his level best to alienate the religious right. and in what twisted logic is it their fault that he lost? you give the finger to a voting block, and then get all snippy when they stay home?
and what is the great plan to win over obama voters? other than wait for his policies to fail and hope.
Yep. Picking that secular progressive Sarah Palin for VP, boy, that was just the last straw, huh varmint?
| 475 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:22am |
re: #446 jjmckay1216
OMG, BHO is talking AGAIN. Does he ever just NOT get in front of the TV cameras? I don't recall Bush being on TV this much.
Our Messiah-King is as much an opposite as Bush in respects to media coverage. O wants to look good while Bush just went to work.
| 476 |
Wishing Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:28am |
re: #465 Ward Cleaver
Some kind of impediment, like cases where the woman is pregnant, and the husband (or wife) are pressured into marrying against their will, or cases of infidelity (the so-called "Pauline privilege"), things like that. It doesn't make the children illegitimate, it just shows that there was an impediment (that's the Canon law term) to a free and valid marriage.
aka LOOPHOLE lololol
| 477 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:43am |
re: #455 buzzsawmonkey
Term limits will solve nothing, though they will guarantee that able lawmakers as well as incompetents are barred from remaining in place.
I think they would solve a liquidity problem, which is what concerns me. I'd be open to thinking about permitting re-election after an interval. Say your limit is up: you'd have to sit out the next two elections. Then you could run again.
| 478 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:47am |
re: #466 funky chicken
Sorry, but that makes me think less of the RC church. Some commitment to the sanctity of marriage. BARF
Something tells me you didn't think very highly of the Catholic Church before.
Reasons can always be found to think less of what you already don't like much, anyhow.
| 479 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:50am |
re: #448 reine.de.tout
If his first two marriages were not in the Church, then I think what he would get is a decree of nullity, not an actual Catholic annullment.
Even marriages in Protestant churches (between two Protestants, one or both whom later convert to Catholicism) are seen as valid by the Catholic church. It depends mainly on the freedom of each party to marry.
| 480 |
subsailor68 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:50am |
What's In a Number? That Depends on How You Define 'Homeless'
From the article:
A well publicized report this week that an estimated 1.5 million American children experienced homelessness in 2005-06 did not use the federal definition of homelessness. Instead, it used a different definition that grossly inflated the actual number.
And:
But rather than using the definition of homelessness established by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Massachusetts-based organization used a standard adopted by the Department of Education that includes children who are "doubled up," or children who share housing with other persons due to economic hardship or similar reason.
So, we have a term "homeless" defined in two different ways, by two separate government departments. How is this helpful?
To me, it's similar to coining the term "mortgage crisis." If you define that as folks who have lost their job, but would otherwise have been able to keep up, that's one thing. If you include people who bought above their means, tried to use the system to "flip" properties, or used the system to buy second or third homes - it means something else entirely.
Words have to mean something!
| 481 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:54am |
re: #437 Sharmuta
Shar, I dunno. RINOs is a term we use at LGF to describe Rs who vote and align themselves with Democrat Libs. Like McCain, for example.
I don't go to any "socon" sites, so I don't really know if they've identified and put into a subset of Republicans those who are pro-choice, anti-ID, etc. as RINO or not. The label serves to divide. We are having multiple discussions lately as to whether this subset "socon" is the death of the party. Is the subset accurate? Do all IDers also fall into the anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion crowd? I'm anti-abortion, don't like it one bit. I couldn't care less about the gay marriage issue right now, it may be #200 on my list of things to give a hoot about. And I am firmly in the anti-ID-in-schools camp.
Am I a "socon"? Should I go buy my armband?
| 482 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:51:57am |
Over at Allah's place, the majority wants him canned. That'll do a lot for the party.
Accelerated self-destruction continues apace...
| 483 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:52:12am |
re: #407 MJBrutus
In addition, term limits are a restriction on our right to elect who we want. It may sound like a good idea to some, but I am not one for advocating more of our rights, especially at the voting booth (McCain and Feingold have caused a lifetime's worth of damage there already).
It is just too hard for someone to run if they aren't tied in with a party. The party is going to go with the winner, until that winner wants to move on. Any 3rd party candidates get largely ignored by the MSM; it takes a LOT of money to get any attention.
And the place to start is the local races, state reps, or representative. Still, it is very hard to overcome the lack of knowledge of a new candidate.
I would require all candidates with a chance of winning to be in all debates. That would really mean all candidates in local elections, but those usually don't have debates.
Unfortunately, I think most people don't pay a lot of attention to the lower elections, like state rep, until too late, and then they go for the familiar name. Better coverage on the news would help, but the smaller number of newspapers, especially local papers, makes this problematic. The Boston Globe, for example, isn't going to give extensive coverage to all the races in Mass; just the ones near Boston and large cities.
And last, too many people just don't want their private lives exposed all over. Even if they have nothing to hide, all kinds of allegations surface.
I don't have a solution to this, but I think this is where to concentrate on fixing the problem of permanent incumbents.
| 484 |
eschew_obfuscation Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:52:15am |
re: #441 Afrocity
Well this year I have been told I am not a Real:
Republican (because I am pro choice)
woman (because I voted for McCain)
black person ( because I voted for McCain)
I am def not a DEM because I am fiscally conservative...
Not Green Party because I don't recycle
Quit letting others label you! ;-)
You seem to have your act together..... be yourself and be happy with that. As others have said, vote the issues and don't worry about the party affiliation. In the end, even in states with closed primaries, it's largely irrelevant at your level.
| 485 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:52:34am |
re: #425 Dave the.....
So by removing the social conservatives from the Republican party, then they can go from getting 45% of the votes (nationally) to 30%. If the UAW continues to vote for the party of global warming and distruction of Michigan, then those who should vote Republican will never switch no matter who we remove.
Whose comment are you basing this upon? Actual social conservatives, the ones who are in line with the Limbaugh comment you made earlier, won't leave, only those few who are hardcore social fundamentalist "conservatives" with a government driven agenda.
| 486 |
yma o hyd Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:52:52am |
re: #389 Kosh's Shadow
Two - an inside and an outside.
But how do you get the dragon to stay inside the pen?
Heh.
I blame the English for that! Can't leave our language alone ...
'Pen', in Welsh, means, 'headland, head, top' - so Uther was the Top Dragon, the war leader.
Hope this helps for future reference, and for blindingeverybody with your brilliant knowledge next time someone asks!
;-))
| 487 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:10am |
re: #444 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Sounds funny and all, but I mean, seriously.
| 488 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:20am |
re: #467 Last Mohican
Same thing.
Exactly the same thing.
That is how I saw it, but they took pains to try to disabuse me of that "naive" thinking.
They want to complain about O, but I cut them off and tell them bluntly they have absolutely NO right to complain since they chose to keep silent during the election.
| 489 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:35am |
re: #459 MandyManners
Ooh! Stem-cell research. When do we get to discuss Terry Schiavo or The Passion of the Christ?
*rad*
I went to see that crappy movie because of the protests. I thought it must be pretty shocking/interesting/something.
I want my 2 hours back.
| 490 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:40am |
re: #456 MJBrutus
He was saying that Americans are once again proud of our country and feel we are on the right track with the economy and that type of BS
| 491 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:52am |
re: #472 Iron Fist
Iron I made that comment not because of abortion or any other issue but rather because of the fighting within the GOP. A house divided will fall. As it looks now Obama will win in 2012 and Michelle Obama in 2016 or Rahm Immanuel...shudder worthy right? but it is a possibility.
| 492 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:53:54am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
Yes his wife is Catholic. And yes he would have had to have his other two marriages annuled.
| 493 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:54:09am |
re: #479 Ward Cleaver
Even marriages in Protestant churches (between two Protestants, one or both whom later convert to Catholicism) are seen as valid by the Catholic church. It depends mainly on the freedom of each party to marry.
OK.
I was told that since my previous marriage was not in the Church, then no annullment was required; but I did have to get a decree or certificate of nullity.
| 494 |
Gus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:54:15am |
re: #474 funky chicken
Yep. Picking that secular progressive Sarah Palin for VP, boy, that was just the last straw, huh varmint?
What's interesting is that I voted for Palin as VP when I voted for McCain. I'm about as secular as you can get but don't judge candidates by certain minutia of their ideologies. I look at the overall body of ideas.
| 495 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:54:46am |
re: #455 buzzsawmonkey
I am not talking about rolling over and going back to sleep. If anything I would say that the status quo is more sleep inducing. People stop participating in elections because they feel there is no point. The incumbent is going to win anyway. Otherwise good candidates often won't even run because they know they don't stand a chance against the likes of a Kennedy. And that tends to be an even bigger problem when someone obtains positions of authority because they can taut all their 'experience'.
| 496 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:54:48am |
re: #395 Ward Cleaver
That's cool to hear about Newt. I'm guessing he's gone through the process of having his first his first two marriages annulled (that would be a requirement). The state about his coming into the Church is on his Wikipedia article (it says that his wife is Catholic).
Since he was a non-Cathollic when he married before, I think he can get a dispensation from the area Bishop, which would still be a process, of course, but not as complicated.
| 497 |
godfrey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:54:51am |
re: #479 Ward Cleaver
Does a priest have to be present if you marry a non-Catholic, for the marriage to be considered valid? And isn't, even then, there a distinction between a valid marriage and a sacramental one? I'm rusty on all this.
| 499 |
zelnaga Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:56:39am |
re: #209 zombie
My personal opinion is that abortion is mostly a stand-in which disguises the real topic of discussion, which is: Should society encourage woman and girls to be promiscuous? Leftists want to keep abortion legal specifically because they want sex to be without consequences. (This is also why they're so outraged that HIV hasn't been cured immediately by the medical community. HIV means that sex can have consequences, which is driving the Left crazy). THe ultimate goal, if you bother to read the underlying texts of leftist philosophy, is to break apart the nuclear family, to help usher in a Total Social Revolution.
The far-right, on the other hand, want to suppress the free expression of extra-marital sexuality, according to their religious/moral principles. Banning abortion is one to to enforce that -- by ensuring that each individual sex act can change your life forever (i.e. give you a child).
I have mixed feelings about the underlying moral question (total sexual freedom, total sexual repression -- or something in between?), hence I have mixed feelings about the political manifestation of that issue (abortion). Personally, I'm leaning toward "something in between" as our society's stance on sexual freedom (e.g. encourage and reward monogamy, but allow promiscuity if someone so chooses), but it seems there is no middle ground allowed on the abortion issue by ideologues on either side.
As repulsive as some may find it, abandoning abstinence-only education and teaching kids about contraceptives would probably reduce the number of abortions.
I guess the question is... which is more repulsive? Abortions or contraceptives and all that they entail? Taking a "just don't have sex until you're married" attitude might be a nice ideal, but maybe it's not all that practical?
The term realpolitik is generally used to discuss intentional issues, but it seems like the idea of "practical politics" could apply domestically, as well.
| 500 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:56:42am |
re: #441 Afrocity
Well this year I have been told I am not a Real:
Republican (because I am pro choice)
woman (because I voted for McCain)
black person ( because I voted for McCain)
I am def not a DEM because I am fiscally conservative...
Not Green Party because I don't recycle
*sigh*
I love how other people like to pigeonhole us...
I'm kind of closed-mouthed about things because I'm a struggling artist. Maybe it's not that brave but since Mr. Blonde wants me to succeed too I just kinda keep quiet (usually). I feel like the chicken amongst a bunch of wolves with nose-piercings. (Got the hair though.) But you know whatcha are - a LIZARD! :)
| 501 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:56:48am |
re: #463 turn
"...that apology he gave you is very rare..."
:) I smiled and said "wow" under my breath, too. Bless ya, Walter!
| 503 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:57:05am |
| 504 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:57:06am |
re: #496 Catttt
Since he was a non-Cathollic when he married before, I think he can get a dispensation from the area Bishop, which would still be a process, of course, but not as complicated.
Catttt - I think you are correct. My previous marriage was not in the Church, and I was advised that I did not have to go thru the full annullment process, but only needed to apply for and receive some sort of decree or certificate of nullity.
| 505 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:57:19am |
re: #353 tackle
I would agree with you re: the creationist stuff, but I'm not sure about Prop 8. Wasn't it about someone trying to clarify/define existing law, to say nothing about encroaching on religious freedom.
Proposition 8 was an amendment to the CA Constitution to specifically ban gay marriage by defining marriage in terms of one man, one woman. It was done this way because the previous attempt, Proposition 22, which only made it a law, was overturned as unconstitutional when measured against the CA Constitution. Both of these propositions come from the public directly, not from the legislature, and are part of our initiative process.
There is already a movement under way to remove the word 'Marriage' from all CA law and replace it with the term 'Domestic Partnership'. You can bet this will be on a CA ballot before too long. Such is the circus of the initiative process.
| 506 |
Intifan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:57:23am |
re: #468 Racer X
Very true.
Bush gave speeches all the time. The media ignored them - refused to broadcast them.
Now they pre-empt whatever may be on tv at the time so we may gaze on the glorious face of the messiah...
| 508 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:59:05am |
re: #392 Ford_Prefect
I disagree, Buzz. With the current system it is too easy for those in power to stay in power. There needs to be new blood and new ideas in Washington, and we are not getting enough of that. Furthermore, when someone new does come along and try to make real changes those that have been there forever and are in positions of authority, squash the new person. It has to stop.
It's even worse than you suggest. We are rapidly approaching the age of American political dynasties. This was only foreshadowed by the Kennedys; now, we can add the Bush and Clinton families to the extremely short list of families who come to power simply through inheritance. Politics is already a full-time, lifelong career for many; for some, it's a legacy they plan on handing on to their offspring. We are coming off a 20 year period where the country was ruled by two families; had Clinton won, that same two families would have extended their rule to at least 24 years, and probably 28. And the Kennedys, of course, continue to ooze into political positions, Carolyn's recent fiasco notwithstanding.
The same can be seen throughout government these days, with spouses or other family members often serving at different levels of government. John Conyers/Monica Conyers; Kwame Kilpatrick/Carolyn Kilpatrick - just to name two pairs that leap to mind from Michigan. The sheer density of corruption in these four alone makes my head spin, and that corruption comes about over long and deliberate manipulation of the political process.
I agree that this needs to stop, and that term limits are the ideal solution. Getting them passed, however, seems problematic at best. A grass-roots effort might be the only way to enforce it, and that's quite a long shot as well. But this sort of entrenched ruling class is as far from the Founder's vision of political service as can possibly be imagined, and needs to be swatted down as quickly and thoroughly as possible.
| 509 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:59:23am |
| 510 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:59:25am |
| 511 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:59:28am |
re: #506 Intifan
Now they pre-empt whatever may be on tv at the time so we may gaze on the glorious face of the messiah...
yet we fight each other in the GOP, so we must love that glorious face of teh messiah because we will see it for the next 8 years if we don't get our sh!t together.
| 512 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 10:59:36am |
re: #497 godfrey
Does a priest have to be present if you marry a non-Catholic, for the marriage to be considered valid? And isn't, even then, there a distinction between a valid marriage and a sacramental one? I'm rusty on all this.
I am Catholic and was previously married to a non-Catholic, in a non-Catholic ceremony.
I was told it was not necessary to go through the full annullment process for that marriage; but I did need to submit an application of some sort so that the Church could issue a ruling of "nullity", or a finding that the marriage was not a valid one in the eyes of the church.
So, I guess - I sure am hoping I'm legitimately married now, because I did not have that previous marriage annulled!
| 514 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:00:01am |
re: #490 jjmckay1216
He was saying that Americans are once again proud of our country and feel we are on the right track with the economy and that type of BS
LOL! How does it feel to proud of our country again? Perhaps he'll let Michelle tell us.
| 515 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:00:35am |
re: #510 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
But you like tea!
hey you better get cleaned up for our date. Sorry Furry but Beer monkey asked me out, can't wait for you to make the first move forever/
| 516 |
restitutor orbis Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:00:49am |
Show this guy the door.
To allow a Nazi comparison to go unchallenged, especially when you are Chairman the party is unforgivable
And really, reaching out to the hip-hop community? Yeah, lets appeal to a bunch of racist, anti-social lowlifes. Great move! Good luck with that, shit- head
| 517 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:01:04am |
re: #480 subsailor68
That reminds me of the official statistics which define poverty as being in the bottom 20% income bracket. Poverty activists point to that number year after year and decry "Look, poverty levels aren't going down!"
Well, if you define poverty as the lowest 20%, then no matter how affluent our society becomes, or how much welfare support they are given, there will always be a lowest 20%.
| 519 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:01:33am |
re: #513 Sharmuta
He is one VERY stealthy dinger. ;)
| 520 |
varmint Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:01:35am |
re: #474 funky chicken
she was the reason he didn't lose by 20 points.
what is the plan? after abortion, what else do we sacrifice in a futile attempt to out pander the democrats? how do we gain one more vote than we lose? i don't think any of you have an answer.
| 521 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:02:03am |
re: #497 godfrey
Does a priest have to be present if you marry a non-Catholic, for the marriage to be considered valid? And isn't, even then, there a distinction between a valid marriage and a sacramental one? I'm rusty on all this.
For it to be a Catholic marriage, under Canon law, it has to be performed by a priest, because marriage is one of the seven sacraments.
| 522 |
Formercorpsman Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:02:28am |
Ploome made a very good point, as Iron Fist did. The Democrats have made it an art form to associate "Republican" with "Racist" despite many people knowing this to be contrary. Through the media, any issue of substance has been deliberately forced off the radar.
Whether we like it or not, race & gender are symbolistic, even if the debate is only topical. The devil is in the details. Certainly, too much of our voting public does not peel the political onion enough to decide where they actually stand on the issues, thus, they make their minds up through the latest sound bites or the witty banter of John Stewart. Unfortunately content of character is trumped more than we would like.
As a person who falls mostly in the pro-life realm, I think we need to present this argument differently. Furthermore, it should become a tertiary platform item. We can have this discussion, seriously, in the future, as other crisis demands our attention now.
The powers that be, within the RNC structure should have Mr. Steele out there trying to finesse the case for fiscal conservatism in a Reaganesque manner. What more powerful message, than citing rising unemployment, the economic free-fall, the loss of main street wealth via wall street, than Mr. Steele?
EXAMPLE: Life expectancy figures from the CDC in 2006.
* White women: 81 years
* African-American women: 76.9 years
* White men: 76 years
* African-American men: 70 years
We really need to driving home, how all these years of the Democrats having a lock on the African American vote is tantamount to economic slavery. A black man today, facing these odds just on average, will see almost no return on his money through Social Security if he paid into it for the majority of his working adult life. Moreover, his investment is not transferable, (in real dollar terms) to his family. He starts working at 25 years old, retires at 65, and the CDC average has him enjoying 40 years of his investment for 5 years?
Don't get me wrong. Abortion in this country is used as birth control. We could go on forever with this debate. I think we have a massive contradiction as it relates to Constitutional law, when someone can be convicted of 2nd degree murder in the death of an unborn child, but that same exact scenario in an abortion office is not. It flies in the face of equal protection under the law.
Give him a chance, lets make a better / different argument, and actually try to pick up a group of voters who have quite a few issues they actually agree with the conservative movement on, and retard the socialist onslaught we will end up having to dig ourselves out of.
| 523 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:02:51am |
re: #518 Iron Fist
Ha ha and the gays started a boycott against black owned businesses in Chicago over prop 8. Except there are no black owned businesses in "boys town".
| 524 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:03:04am |
re: #430 Sharmuta
Just because I didn't discuss my alternative doesn't mean I lack one. I said I discussed my alternative ideas with others and was called a RINO.
Sorry, I must have misread your post. What alternative(s) did you present or were not allowed to present?
My alternative:
All abortions must be performed by the mother herself.
Then we'll see how well that goes over.
| 525 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:03:16am |
re: #486 yma o hyd
Heh.
I blame the English for that! Can't leave our language alone ...'Pen', in Welsh, means, 'headland, head, top' - so Uther was the Top Dragon, the war leader.
Hope this helps for future reference, and for blindingeverybody with your brilliant knowledge next time someone asks!;-))
Thanks. I will make sure to dazzle everyone the next time I'm asked.
I do wish Steinbeck had lived to complete his translation of Morte d Arthur; it is much more readable than the other one I have.
Interesting the parts they leave out in the kid's version, like exactly how Arthur was conceived.
| 526 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:03:17am |
re: #471 Dave the.....
Geesh, I walk by a TV everyday around 10-1 or so (getting lunch, gabbing a pop, on my way to meetings etc), and EVERYDAY The One is on live. Or maybe CNN replay but from the same day.
Is it his ego? Is he board? Is he still campaigning?
Welcome to the Age of the Perpetual Political Campaign.
| 527 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:03:24am |
re: #516 restitutor orbis
Show this guy the door.
To allow a Nazi comparison to go unchallenged, especially when you are Chairman the party is unforgivable
And really, reaching out to the hip-hop community? Yeah, lets appeal to a bunch of racist, anti-social lowlifes. Great move! Good luck with that, shit- head
Welcome to Mike Huckabee, RNC Chairman.
If you think the party is marginalized now, you ain't seen nothin' yet if the Huckster is in charge.
| 528 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:03:24am |
re: #499 zelnaga
Teaching the technology of birth control is not at all the same thing as teaching self-respect, self-control and self-responsibility. The modern leftist/liberal ideology is completely contrary to those principles.
| 529 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:04:35am |
re: #504 reine.de.tout
Catttt - I think you are correct. My previous marriage was not in the Church, and I was advised that I did not have to go thru the full annullment process, but only needed to apply for and receive some sort of decree or certificate of nullity.
I am thinking that's what my mom did. She converted when she and my daddy decided to marry. She had been divorced, and iirc, she got a dispensation. It took a while, however, and the good father at Saint Mary's married them ahead of time, in a very small, quiet ceremony, because he knew they didn't want to be apart.
| 530 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:04:58am |
re: #460 eschew_obfuscation
I think you just made Dave's point. The will of the people was clear and the judiciary attempted to overturn it by fiat. Prop 8 just restored it.
His point was that the judiciary "made law" over the will of the people. My point is that the law passed on the ballot was a flawed law and was indeed unconstitutional. That is not activism by the judiciary, that's constitutional interpretation.
That being said, Prop 8 was an ugly battle. The socons who put it on the bill whipped up a frenzy that was not pretty. At all. If that is legislating "socially conservative," I don't want any part of it.
| 531 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:05:02am |
re: #522 Formercorpsman
We really need to driving home, how all these years of the Democrats having a lock on the African American vote is tantamount to economic slavery. A black man today, facing these odds just on average, will see almost no return on his money through Social Security if he paid into it for the majority of his working adult life. Moreover, his investment is not transferable, (in real dollar terms) to his family. He starts working at 25 years old, retires at 65, and the CDC average has him enjoying 40 years of his investment for 5 years?
Can you help me drive this home to my fellow African Americans?
| 532 |
CyanSnowHawk Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:06:03am |
re: #461 Piglet-U93
The DEMS want chaos and disunity which allows them to advance their agenda without significant resistance. For instance, the DEMS align with Islam not because they really support them but because conservatives see the Islam as a threat.
The DEMS will not turn Pro-Life ever, IMHO. Muslims will always support Abortion but will also never practice it.
You seem to have missed my point. Taking a hard line stance on this issue within the GOP, which includes having support for a Constitutional amendment banning abortion, and only advancing anti-abortion candidates for higher office, is causing schisms. If that is allowed to continue, the GOP will not be able to take back a majority, therefore guaranteeing that the Democrats will maintain control in Congress and the White House. That will guarantee that the government will always support abortion. That is the end result of maintaining that stance in the GOP. If you keep reaching for everything, you will get nothing.
| 533 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:06:06am |
re: #529 Catttt
I am thinking that's what my mom did. She converted when she and my daddy decided to marry. She had been divorced, and iirc, she got a dispensation. It took a while, however, and the good father at Saint Mary's married them ahead of time, in a very small, quiet ceremony, because he knew they didn't want to be apart.
I believe that what your mother applied for and got is what I'm talking about. A finding of "nullity" of the previous marriage that was not in the Church. Anyhow - that's what I was advised as re: my previous marriage which was not in the Church.
| 534 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:06:31am |
re: #516 restitutor orbis
And really, reaching out to the hip-hop community? Yeah, lets appeal to a bunch of racist, anti-social lowlifes. Great move! Good luck with that, shit- head
Actually, we need to reach out to the hip-hop community in a huge way. We need to teach people what the Democrat party has done to them: purposefully keeping them on the voteslave plantation, for 50 years; de-educating them with the schools the Dems have run, programming them, making them believe lies by feeding them lies for 4-5 generations.
I regret that I can only down-ding that comment once, and you can have no idea how much restraint I am showing with my words right now, regarding the poster. No idea.
| 535 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:06:38am |
re: #520 varmint
GMTA I was just going to ask the same question. We need to get it together, the basis of our party, so we can come together and beat this socialist in the House right now. From fiscal responsibility and creating energy (drilling, nuclear, etc) to ween ourselves off foreign oil. That kinda thing. What is the platform to showcase to bring our party together?
| 536 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:06:58am |
re: #515 Afrocity
hey you better get cleaned up for our date. Sorry Furry but Beer monkey asked me out, can't wait for you to make the first move forever/
As soon as I book a flight to Chicago, I'm yours! ;) We'll talk about tea & rare books.
| 537 |
Neutral President Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:07:43am |
re: #209 zombie
I up-dinged you on this because I feel like I'm in the same boat of mixed feelings on the subject and I also believe that there are much more important issues to deal with right now. I also think you hit the far left's agenda squarely on the head. It seems like a variation of Huxley's Brave New World is exactly the utopia they are striving for.
I do however, believe that much, if not the vast majority, of the pro-life movement are not simply trying to impose their religious beliefs or views on extra-marital sex on others (there are pro-life atheists and agnostics). They truly believe abortion is murder and everyone having one is committing infanticide, and often for selfish or superficial reasons at that. They are politically pro-life and tend to make a big issue out of it because of this and think they cannot just sit idly by while millions of innocents are killed. This is why there are often holocaust comparisons in the rhetoric.
| 538 |
horse Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:07:48am |
re: #489 funky chicken
I went to see that crappy movie because of the protests. I thought it must be pretty shocking/interesting/something.
I want my 2 hours back.
You, Stan and Kenny.
| 540 |
yochanan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:08:35am |
re: #441 Afrocity
AFROCITY I think we agree on a lot of things.
some of it might be because being any kind of republican inside chicago isn't easy
| 541 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:09:16am |
re: #533 reine.de.tout
I believe that what your mother applied for and got is what I'm talking about. A finding of "nullity" of the previous marriage that was not in the Church. Anyhow - that's what I was advised as re: my previous marriage which was not in the Church.
I only know this because I just looked it up. The Church never uses the word annulment in the Canon Law - they call it nullity. The dispensation is like a branch off the normal process, which doesn't have to go through the entire nullity procedure.
| 542 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:09:25am |
re: #478 reine.de.tout
Something tells me you didn't think very highly of the Catholic Church before.
Reasons can always be found to think less of what you already don't like much, anyhow.
Um, I went through RCIA to marry my husband. My children are baptized RC. I find their "annulment dispensation for rich, unfaithful men" to be disgusting and hypocritical. It has been abused by morally repugnant men for as long as I can remember. The Kennedy family seems to have sought annulments quite a few times.
Now Gingrich is joining with the Kennedies in their religion-endorsed depravity.
Nope, not gonna stand up and cheer for Gingrich or the RC Church.
| 543 |
Sunlight Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:09:52am |
What about Eric Cantor (R-VA). I've read bio type stuff, and I saw that he has said some things about the $$ being racked up. It's a good sign if I don't know a politician's position on one of these "litmus tests" because that means they aren't Huckabee.
[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]
| 544 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:10:05am |
re: #537 ArchangelMichael
I upding anyone that alludes to Huxley
| 545 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:10:29am |
re: #540 yochanan
WLS-AM and WIND-AM, two competing conservative stations in Chicago, both doing quite well. There is hope.
| 547 |
Formercorpsman Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:11:31am |
| 548 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:12:15am |
The Hot Air Poll is a bit sneaky. One choice to fire Steele, 4 choices to keep him. The Pro-Steele vote gets divided 4 ways, leaving the anti-Steele vote to come out on top.
Yeah, can him. 43% (2254 votes)
No, wait for the results of NY-20 7% (394 votes)
No, wait for the first fundraising report 10% (523 votes)
No, wait for the midterms 8% (420 votes)
No, give the man a chance 32% (1709 votes)
Add the votes to keep Steele and it's 3046 for keeping him vs. 2254 against.
| 549 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:13:05am |
re: #540 yochanan
AFROCITY I think we agree on a lot of things.
some of it might be because being any kind of republican inside chicago isn't easy
Monday, I was talking to a shop owner that voted McCain. I had not seen him since before the election. He smiled at me and said looks like we lost. He was glad that I was black and did not vote for Obama. he said "it give me hope that there are others like you" Still he was deflated and said "Chicago has been DEM for decades...it will never change"
| 550 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:13:55am |
re: #543 Sunlight
What about Eric Cantor (R-VA). I've read bio type stuff, and I saw that he has said some things about the $$ being racked up. It's a good sign if I don't know a politician's position on one of these "litmus tests" because that means they aren't Huckabee.
[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]
I really like him. I like him on most of the issues, and he's very good-looking. :D
| 551 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:14:46am |
re: #489 funky chicken
I went to see that crappy movie because of the protests. I thought it must be pretty shocking/interesting/something.
I want my 2 hours back.
Damn. I went to see The Last Temptation of Christ with Willem Defoe, not the Mel Gibson one. The Mel Gibson one was just kinda torture porn with a religious premise from what I heard.
I can kinda imagine that flogging and crucifixion is painful without cinematographic evidence.
| 552 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:15:11am |
re: #550 Catttt
I really like him. I like him on most of the issues, and he's very good-looking. :D
Plus, I see that the O et al are already trying to undermine him, which means they see him as a threat.
| 553 |
Afrocity Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:15:35am |
re: #551 funky chicken
hey was funky chicken a 70's disco dance step?
| 554 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:15:54am |
Why are Republicans making Steele an issue at this time? Are these Republicans who really don't care about the party? People who's self interest outweighs logic and reason?
Give Steele a couple of years, gaffes be damned. I can't even remember the name of the last RNC chairman. Steele's I can remember.
When you hire someone you give them a chance to mature and fit the job. Most leadership positions require that type of building. Few are the leaders who jump right in and go. Exceptions might be military work.
Is Rush more interested in ratings or learning how to work with Steele?
Removing Steele will just make the party bland and give people like me the impression that the GoP still doesn't know what it is doing. You want black leadership present in the party? This is the opportunity. Ol Colin Powell didn't work out so well.
| 555 |
MJBrutus Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:16:44am |
re: #553 Afrocity
hey was funky chicken a 70's disco dance step?
Yeah, it's the one where you put your hands on your knees and move them apart and together again :-)
| 557 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:18:14am |
re: #551 funky chicken
Damn. I went to see The Last Temptation of Christ with Willem Defoe, not the Mel Gibson one. The Mel Gibson one was just kinda torture porn with a religious premise from what I heard.
I can kinda imagine that flogging and crucifixion is painful without cinematographic evidence.
The Mel Gibson one drives home the point visually of what the crucifixion was like. I was impressed with the movie. However I haven't been able to see it again.
| 558 |
Piglet-U93 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:18:46am |
re: #546 Sharmuta
I discussed it here last night, but you are misconstruing my comment. It wasn't that I wasn't allowed to state my ideas, it was the reaction my ideas generated. The left doesn't have a monopoly on closed-mindedness.
Read your comment from yesterday and ding you up. We are on the same page. Thank you.
| 559 |
Dave the..... Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:19:08am |
Funky Chicken....
I saw Rufus Thomas about a year before he died. Pretty good show..seeing in 82 year old up there in green corduary shorts dancing around.
| 561 |
funky chicken Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:23:11am |
re: #553 Afrocity
hey was funky chicken a 70's disco dance step?
maybe? I'm not sure where I first heard it, but I liked it, I guess :-)
| 562 |
krisstingle Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:23:19am |
re: #463 turn
Hey you're kind of new, never seen a comment from you until just now. I followed them back upthread. First off, I like your nic (I despise Chrissie). Secondly, don't let Walter intimidate you, that apology he gave you is very rare so I think he realized he was being an a@#. Finally, do you know Newt too?
Been a reader for a long time, Thanks didn't take me long to come up with that nic. I think Walter is great no offense taken. as to Newt kinda. I would post more but by the time i am done typing the thread is done. AS you can SEE.
| 564 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:23:38am |
When I read opinions of abortion, sometimes it's as if people were talking about completely different topics.
Pro-choice people see it solely as a woman's "right to chose" and are outraged at "religious bigots" oppressing women.
Pro-life people see it abortion as an issue of the unborn's right to life. They are outraged at the willingness of immoral secularists to commit murder.
The problem is abortion contains both moral/ethical issues at the same time, inversely tied together. One cannot raise the importance of one right, without lowering the importance of the other.
If a woman's right to choose is paramount, then the right to life of an unborn human is denied. If the right to life of an unborn human is enforced, then a woman's right to do with her body what she wishes is denied.
Various legal compromises based upon trimester limits or exceptions for special circumstances never confront these inherent contradictions, but merely muddy the water.
| 565 |
lobo91 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:23:51am |
re: #381 MandyManners
DA/DT
WASHINGTON – The Army fired 11 soldiers in January for violating the military's policy that gay service members must keep their sexuality hidden, according to a Virginia congressman. Democratic Rep. Jim Moran said he has requested monthly updates from the Pentagon on the impact of the policy until it is repealed.
Too bad that story didn't include any actual details (not that they ever do, of course).
I'd be willing to bet that at least 10 of the 11 involved Soldiers "outing" themselves, as a way to get out of the Army.
Believe it or not, there isn't an "anti-gay patrol" in the Army that goes around looking for them. We take both parts of that equation (don't ask AND don't tell) pretty seriously.
| 568 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:27:20am |
re: #555 MJBrutus
Yeah, it's the one where you put your hands on your knees and move them apart and together again :-)
thumbs under the armpits, flap your elbows, swivel side to side...
| 569 |
DaddyG Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:27:48am |
Conservatives have got to stop eating our own over single issues. You aren't going to find the perfect candidate to represent the party or run for office. Instead support someone who most closely matches your views and has the integrity to represent you.
| 570 |
jjmckay1216 Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:28:59am |
re: #557 hazzyday
Same here. It was a very moving movie, IF that's really how it played out. And it probably was. They were as sick as the Left!
| 571 |
Chicago Blonde Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:29:24am |
re: #566 buzzsawmonkey
Not just a pun, a Shakespearian pun. On a Friday no less. :)
| 572 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:29:56am |
re: #551 funky chicken
Damn. I went to see The Last Temptation of Christ with Willem Defoe, not the Mel Gibson one. The Mel Gibson one was just kinda torture porn with a religious premise from what I heard.
I can kinda imagine that flogging and crucifixion is painful without cinematographic evidence.
re: #551 funky chicken
Damn. I went to see The Last Temptation of Christ with Willem Defoe, not the Mel Gibson one. The Mel Gibson one was just kinda torture porn with a religious premise from what I heard.
I can kinda imagine that flogging and crucifixion is painful without cinematographic evidence.
I read the Nikos Kazantzakis book years ago. Didn't want to spoil it by seeing the movie.
| 574 |
Neutral President Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:31:58am |
re: #544 Afrocity
I upding anyone that alludes to Huxley
I believe, of all the more famous dystopian novels of the 20th Century, that BNW is the one closest to the reality we might end up in if leftist 'anything goes' morality becomes the norm (and assuming we don't totally collapse as a nation or civilization because of it).
Feel bad, just pop a pill, don't bother actually dealing with a bad situation.
Babies and childrearing.... yuck, thats for labs and minimum security orphanariums.
Screw anyone I want with no consequences! Where do I sign!
Interview people in the various moonbat nexuses in the country and I bet most people would be for all of the above to some degree. Many are probably already doing the pill popping part. Soma was a prophetic version of serontonin re-uptake inhibitors. It's frightening to me.
| 575 |
Catttt Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:32:28am |
re: #557 hazzyday
The Mel Gibson one drives home the point visually of what the crucifixion was like. I was impressed with the movie. However I haven't been able to see it again.
It was an awesome movie. I bought the DVD - but haven't watched it again yet.
| 576 |
Sunlight Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:32:45am |
re: #550 Catttt
I really like him. I like him on most of the issues, and he's very good-looking. :D
I just read on wiki that his wife is an attorney (has a real career), they have 3 kids, and his mother-in-law runs the house. That sounds so modern and traditional at the same time. Wow.
| 578 |
Taqiyyotomist Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:36:49am |
re: #548 Kenneth
I really, REALLY hate it when conservative outlets use the tactics of the left.
Given that their poll looks like that, with the no's divided in 4 pieces and the big glaring percentage of Yes votes, it is clear what the owners of HotAir would like, or what they would like US to think.
DECEPTION HAS NO PLACE IN CONSERVATISM, HOTAIR!
| 579 |
Kenneth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:36:52am |
re: #574 ArchangelMichael
His "Eyeless in Gaza" is a stinging indictment of the morally vacuous pacifist movement in Britain on the eve of WWII. Another book that makes one think of today's situation.
| 580 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:38:39am |
re: #516 restitutor orbis
Show this guy the door.
To allow a Nazi comparison to go unchallenged, especially when you are Chairman the party is unforgivable
And really, reaching out to the hip-hop community? Yeah, lets appeal to a bunch of racist, anti-social lowlifes. Great move! Good luck with that, shit- head
If your reasoning in its essence is applied to all GoP members, most of them would have to be "shown the door." Probably yourself included. Nazi comparisons about Republicans go unchallenged all the time. Probably because there are so many foolish democratic types who only know how to converse in that manner.
But we do need forceful leaders who can force these morons to backpedal and who can dissect the MSM and send them reeling.
| 581 |
yochanan Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:40:03am |
re: #577 Iron Fist
near north side in the city, not a 'breeder freindly spot'
| 582 |
HippieforLife Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:40:12am |
re: #98 Irenike
I totally agree with this. The abortion question is a moral one and should have never been politicized. I have always believed that the Republican party was way overboard on this issue. Not that the Democrats were not quick to jump on it, though; however, it does seem strange that Democrats would want to be seen as the party of "pro-abortion".
I thought that Mr. Steele looked good for the party, but I too have been a little disappointed in his latest appearances. I hope he gets better.
| 583 |
kansas Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:42:44am |
Here's an idea. Keep Steele. Get him a spokesperson, preferably not Scott McClellan.
| 585 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:49:59am |
re: #563 ploome hineni
what a fucking stupid ignorant thing to say
that piece of shit fucking JEWHATING antisemite was THERE to see HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS being cruicified by the ROmans?
or was Mel GIbsons obscene vision a function of his Jewhatred
/spit
that whole scene is pure blood libel..I am only surprised Gibson didn;t show JEws drinking Jesus blood
/I forgot, that is not what JEWS DO
I can't follow your logic? You are saying Jesus was a JEWHATING antisemite?
You're being silly. Separate out the movie from the producer. The movie was well done, I didn't come away from it at all thinking JEWS killed Jesus.
What stands out in the movie is the torture of the Crucifixion. It symbolized everyone who has ever died on the cross figuratively and literally. That might not mean much to you, but I appreciated the lesson even though I am pretty squeamish about this stuff.
The theater was full in a lefty neighborhood. It was silent the whole movie. Big applause afterwards.
| 586 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:51:48am |
re: #542 funky chicken
Um, I went through RCIA to marry my husband. My children are baptized RC. I find their "annulment dispensation for rich, unfaithful men" to be disgusting and hypocritical. It has been abused by morally repugnant men for as long as I can remember. The Kennedy family seems to have sought annulments quite a few times.
Now Gingrich is joining with the Kennedies in their religion-endorsed depravity.
Nope, not gonna stand up and cheer for Gingrich or the RC Church.
Going through RCIA does not mean you like the Catholic Church. You state that the annulment process has been abused by morally repugnant men for as long as you can remember, but your contempt is reserved for the church, not those men.
I have also sought an annulment, and I thank God that it was available to me.
I'll say it again - one can always find reasons to be contemptuous of that which one doesn't much like to begin with.
| 587 |
SFGoth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:59:16am |
How about that Indiana high school lesbian who's suing her high school to be allowed to wear pants to the prom. Apparently girls must wear dresses. Yeah, that's really going to be a winning issue for so-cons. GHFC. If a girl wants to wear pants, who's to tell her no?
| 588 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:02:40pm |
re: #587 SFGoth
How about that Indiana high school lesbian who's suing her high school to be allowed to wear pants to the prom. Apparently girls must wear dresses. Yeah, that's really going to be a winning issue for so-cons. GHFC. If a girl wants to wear pants, who's to tell her no?
I'm a social conservative. I don't give a rat's ass what somebody wears to the prom. Nor do I care if someone is gay. Nor do I care in any way what my neighbor believes or does, unless it's illegal or harms me, my loved ones or my property.
Please stop putting all social conservatives into one "bag" of homophobes - we're not.
| 589 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:03:17pm |
re: #406 Afrocity
I never did that Walter. Pro-choice is the only reason I stayed with DEMs as long as I did. After eating the rest of the garbage on their plates for my entire life, I decided that that ONE issue was not enough to keep me there, Nor was the liberal lie that they are more for "da black man"
I voted for McCain because I agreed with him on the issues more so than Obama.
That being said in terms of issues I cannot vote for Jindal if he is the GOP nominee, so like I said I will most likely sit 2012 out.
One never sits an election out. That was part of my 7th grade humanities class. Part of the duty of a responsible citizen. I have missed a few, due to negligence not to disappointment. But it gnaws at me that I didn't fully express myself in the democracy.
| 590 |
n2stox Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:09:55pm |
So far, I'm completely underwhelmed, and abortion probably isn't one of my top 8 political drivers.
It's still early, but I feel we just spotted the other side a couple of touchdowns on the Limbaugh thing. He was caught in the headlights by a chump like Hughley.
| 591 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:11:23pm |
For the Republicans to let the media and it's own members drive the party based on Religious issues ? I don't see how that will work. I value Religion but a religious geared platform is something I would shy away from. They have to be more subtle to win me over.
Republican reformation.
| 592 |
DaChew Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:15:43pm |
I demand to see Michael Steele's birth certificate.
| 596 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:35:33pm |
re: #595 ploome hineni
hazzyday
that is his agenda
/nice that you all find it such a fine piece of
workshit
What happens now in society is that when friends watch any Mel Gibson movie they talk about how responsible he was to get a DUI? And that he hates Jews. He is seen as a sad case now more so than an honored producer. Talented but flawed. Can a person turn easily out of that hatred. Most likely not. He still hates Jews. I didn't find your reaction particularly convincing of anything other then Mel Gibson sober is more civil than you are.
| 597 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:37:58pm |
re: #530 Russkilitlover
His point was that the judiciary "made law" over the will of the people. My point is that the law passed on the ballot was a flawed law and was indeed unconstitutional. That is not activism by the judiciary, that's constitutional interpretation.
That being said, Prop 8 was an ugly battle. The socons who put it on the bill whipped up a frenzy that was not pretty. At all. If that is legislating "socially conservative," I don't want any part of it.
Not only that. The vast sums of money poured into the measure by the socons produced only a slim victory, where prior measures in California and elsewhere were defeated by much wider margins. Phrases like "Winning the battle and losing the war" and "Pyrrhic victory" leap to mind; the socon agenda is fundamentally intrusive, anti-conservative and anti-American, and the more widely it gets advertised the more this becomes apparent. Driving the middle, with it's 70+% of the electorate, away from the GOP is not a wise strategy. Eventually, this measure will pass, and it will pass at tremendous cost to the Republican Party, which is tainted by association at best, outright collusion at worst in this case.
| 599 |
hazzyday Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:42:49pm |
re: #593 ploome hineni
you better believe Gibson believes Jews were responsible
and frankly I cold care less whatever crap he believed if his beliefs were not dangerous and degrading for Jews
he can and will go to hell, as far as I am concerned
actually, Gibson, the stupid drunk, is probably already in his own private hell
/and before you'all tell the muslims to clean up their Jew hating koran.......look the the beam in your own eye
Ploome, I know so many intolerant religious people I can only include you in with them. The beam is in your eye. That is where you should look first. I appreciate the wise advice you have there.
| 600 |
SFGoth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:57:31pm |
re: #588 reine.de.tout
I'm a social conservative. I don't give a rat's ass what somebody wears to the prom. Nor do I care if someone is gay. Nor do I care in any way what my neighbor believes or does, unless it's illegal or harms me, my loved ones or my property.
Please stop putting all social conservatives into one "bag" of homophobes - we're not.
You're not, many like you are not; but the windbags who get on TV and who have a lot of sway with public policy do. Obviously the controversy itself exists and I'm pretty sure it's not a liberal school administration. Stuff like this is just an albatross that's going to keep the fascists in power.
| 602 |
Bourgeois Reactionary Fri, Mar 13, 2009 12:59:37pm |
I'm a 'social conservative' Republican and I voted to give Steele a chance (but only one more chance - strike three and you're out). Part of his job is to be a spokesman for the GOP - if he can't represent the views of the Party without angering its core constituency then he's in the wrong job.
I was disappointed that he did not defend the GOP on Hughley's show, allowing the comparison to Nazi's to stand unchallenged - for my 'count', the Rush comment gets folded into that mess. Strike One.
Steele's 'squishy' pro-life comments are troublesome. Also, for my 'count' I combined the RNC organizational problems with this to make Strike Two.
I wrote Chairman Steele telling him (not asking him) to grow a pair when his Party gets compared to Nazis; got the "Thank you for contacting the Republican National Committee" response.
For those of you who want to minimize the so-cons, show me how the GOP gets more votes without them.
BTW, in my State of Alabama, even the Democrats say they are pro-life and pro-traditional marriage - there are only a handful of politicians in this State who get elected without passing that litmus test.
| 603 |
Outrider Fri, Mar 13, 2009 1:15:07pm |
I'm not particularly concerned with Steeles position on abortion. However, I don't doubt it will be a divisive issue again in the future.
My problem with Steele is his desire to change, modify, and alter the Republican party in order to make it more "palatable" to a "younger, hipper, more diverse, and cooler" voter block. Every time this is attempted with anything, it tends to water it down and modify moral positions as well as philosophical ones.
Earlier, I had used country music as an example. A few years back, record labels changed country music to appeal to a "younger, hipper, more diverse, and cooler" market. We ended up with country music with no real distinction between it and pop. Seemed to have the same skinny blond bimbos singing even. They sold more records - but it didn't sound like country music any longer. When I turn on the radio, it gets hard to tell the difference.
This is what I am afraid Steele is going to do. In order to attract more voters to the Republican party, too much will change. Once we compromise our philosophical planks and become more "acceptable" to this larger group of voters, will we even resemble the Republican party? Will there even be a difference between the parties?
| 604 |
SFGoth Fri, Mar 13, 2009 1:22:39pm |
re: #603 Outrider
This is what I am afraid Steele is going to do. In order to attract more voters to the Republican party, too much will change. Once we compromise our philosophical planks and become more "acceptable" to this larger group of voters, will we even resemble the Republican party? Will there even be a difference between the parties?
My paycheck.
| 605 |
Lizard by the Bay Fri, Mar 13, 2009 1:23:42pm |
I voted "No" to throwing him out over this, but that doesn't mean I don't want someone more effective in this position.
| 606 |
Dan G. Fri, Mar 13, 2009 1:25:40pm |
I voted to oust him, but definitely not for the same reasons as the theocrats. He's demonstrated a complete lack of backbone in the way he handled this situation. I agree with Sharm, that the theocrats need to be stood up to, but Steele has demonstrated that he's not the guy (unless he mans-up and shows he is a vertebrate PDQ).
| 610 |
restitutor orbis Fri, Mar 13, 2009 3:42:44pm |
re: #580 hazzyday
If your reasoning in its essence is applied to all GoP members, most of them would have to be "shown the door." Probably yourself included. Nazi comparisons about Republicans go unchallenged all the time. Probably because there are so many foolish democratic types who only know how to converse in that manner.
But we do need forceful leaders who can force these morons to backpedal and who can dissect the MSM and send them reeling.
You are correct. Alot of right leaning people are too classy to get into a shouting match with someone of such low intellect. My point is, for the Chairman of the RNC to let such a thing go unchallenged is ridiculous. It's not like he said, "I do not care to respond to such a outrageous statement" or any such thing. He said "I agree". And this wasn't even some great journalistic debater. It was DL Hughley, a low-end Democrat water carrier who, judging from the statement in question, is probably a seething racist himself.
They can both fuck off.
| 611 |
Cousin Yttrium Fri, Mar 13, 2009 4:10:33pm |
If the chairman is supposed to be an ambassador, then let him stay. Reaching out to moderates could be a boon.
If, on the other hand, the chairman is supposed to raise money and get others in his party elected, then kick him off. Alienating the core is *not* the way to get those two objectives done.
| 612 |
leereyno Fri, Mar 13, 2009 5:06:52pm |
The problem with abortion isn't that a child is killed, but that the reproductive organs of its mother are left intact to conceive more children in the future.
Abortion should be subsidized by the state and free to all...but only when combined with surgical sterilization as a non-negotiable part of the treatment.
| 613 |
Eclectic Infidel Fri, Mar 13, 2009 5:17:24pm |
"Give him a chance..."
Yes indeed. A chance to annoy more rabid anti-choice Republicans; to enrage more evangelicals, and to cause more conservatives to seethe and whine and splinter away from the GOP. Of course I am biased. I'd like to see the GOP shed its evangelical base entirely, to rid itself of the staunch anti-choicers who hide behind the guise of being "pro-life." That probably won't happen, but perhaps the evanglical/right-wing contingent can be marginalized, over time. Steele is a step in the right direction.
| 615 |
TedStriker Fri, Mar 13, 2009 5:45:31pm |
re: #527 FurryOldGuyJeans
Welcome to Mike Huckabee, RNC Chairman.
If you think the party is marginalized now, you ain't seen nothin' yet if the Huckster is in charge.
Huckabee would be the RNC's version of Howard Dean....a pick to pander to the "base" and anathema to anyone with common sense.
| 617 |
Grant Drive Fri, Mar 13, 2009 11:23:10pm |
I was annoyed by his endorsement of a Woman's Right to Choose to Kill Her Baby, not long after he referred to Rush Limbaugh's style as "ugly."
But until then, Mr. Steele always seemed like a great guy. He's been a guest-host of the Hugh Hewitt Show several times, and has done a terrific job explaining the core values of conservatism. I was delighted when he was selected to chair the RNC.
Maybe the pressure is getting to him: just like Tim Geithner, he's got a host of subordinate jobs that haven't been filled yet, so he's pretty much working alone. We should cut him some slack, for a little while at least.
| 619 |
munster Sat, Mar 14, 2009 9:42:07pm |
Steele should step down because he doesn't have a clue about why the base is abandoning the RNC in droves. Steele is an east coast liberal republican (in name only) and reflects the leftward step of the party.
At this time the party needs to get back to the principles of smaller government instead of the growth of government and spending.
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