Our Friends the Saudis

World • Views: 1,676

The corrupt, obscenely wealthy rulers of Saudi Arabia continue playing Wahhabi bait-and-switch, promising reforms and delivering only more of the same Dark Ages misogyny.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Visitors to a women’s job training center heard terrified screams — and rushed to see an agent of the religious police dragging a woman by her hair down the stairs of the building.

The woman had apparently run for shelter in the center after the religious police caught her alone in a car with a man she is not related to — a violation of Saudi Arabia’s strict gender segregation, one of the visitors, Nasreen Qattan, told the Associated Press.

Under that same segregation, the male agent should not have entered the all-women center — yet he still barged in and grabbed the woman.

The incident a week ago in the holy city of Mecca is the sort of heavy-handed behavior by the kingdom’s Islamic religious police that many Saudis hoped would end after King Abdullah in February appointed a new chief of the force, billed as a reformer.

But so far, there’s been little sign of change, and complaints against the religious police continue.

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329 comments
1 capitalist piglet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:52:47pm

The L.A. chapter of N.O.W. had no comment.

2 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:53:54pm

"It's the Occupation!"

/moonbat

3 Racer X  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:54:09pm

GITMO = Evil
Saudi Arabia = Paradise

4 opinionated  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:54:09pm
holy city of Mecca

I still remeber the 15 of 19 who attacked the holy city of New York.

5 midwestgak  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:54:30pm

Note to self: All national leaders lie.

6 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:55:54pm
The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice

Talk about an oxymoron.

7 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:56:14pm

Dragging a woman down the stairs by her hair? Sounds like behavior a certain New York Democrat can identify with.

8 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:56:33pm
Under that same segregation, the male agent should not have entered the all-women center — yet he still barged in and grabbed the woman.

Men who violate the law in this matter get little punishment if any. In true misogynistic form- only the woman is to blame. *spit*

9 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:57:26pm

I thought that dragging women by their hair was a behavior that dated back before the Dark ages, all the way to the Stone Age.

10 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:57:38pm

SA is a walking target...if Iran does not slap them maybe we will...waiting for an official statement from BO

11 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:57:50pm

What is it with these Saudi Men? They are such pussies that all they can do is beat on their women?

12 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:58:45pm

re: #11 Truck Monkey

What is it with these Saudi Men? They are such pussies that all they can do is beat on their women?

Camels and goats kick back.

13 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:58:50pm

Frankly- I'm shocked they allow women to work.

14 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:59:16pm

I'm so glad Sharia Law is taking hold in Europe.

///////// Ugh.

15 rightwinger3  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:59:37pm

It's hard to believe this stuff goes on in modern Saudi Arabia. Aren't they moderate muslims?
/

16 MJ  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:59:57pm

Meanwhile, the New York Times is praising the Saudis:

Saudis Retool to Root Out Terrorist Risk

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

and this:

For Saudi Liberals, a Ripple of Hope in a Sea of Tradition

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

We know where Chas. Freedman can get a job.

17 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:00:24pm

Yet the UN continues to sanction Israel every other day.
I am convinced I live in an alternative universe. The real
world I know is never reported on. Maybe it is just me.....

18 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:00:52pm

The Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV).

There is something very Margaret Atwood about that name. I suppose a handmaid could tell a tale about it.

19 Mirage  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:00:57pm

re: #9 Salamantis

I thought that dragging women by their hair was a behavior that dated back before the Dark ages, all the way to the Stone Age.

I believe this practice is even more barbaric than the Stone Age

20 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:01:04pm

SA, not Israel, will be Irans first victim of the new millenium...they will fold like a paper napkin

21 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:01:06pm

re: #11 Truck Monkey

What is it with these Saudi Men? They are such pussies that all they can do is beat on their women?

Yup.

22 DEZes  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:01:30pm

They abuse their greatest treasures.

23 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:01:45pm

Obama is prepared to deal with Saudia Arabia. After all, Lawrence of Arabia was one of the 25 DVDs given to Gordon Brown.

24 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:01:46pm

what lovely people... we simply must have them over for drinks and dinner this weekend.

25 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:02:04pm

re: #17 NonNativeTexan

Yet the UN continues to sanction Israel every other day.
I am convinced I live in an alternative universe. The real
world I know is never reported on. Maybe it is just me.....

and FEMINISTS line up against the ONLY country that gives rights to women and homosexuals and oh yeah, Arabs and Muslims. . .yeah, Israel is such a baaaad place compared to Mecca. . .//////

26 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:02:37pm

Are they still planning on lashing the 75 year old woman?

27 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:02:38pm

re: #18 Syrah

The Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV).

There is something very Margaret Atwood about that name. I suppose a handmaid could tell a tale about it.

If she lived to tell about it. . .

28 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:02:45pm

The hypocrisy is utterly mind-boggling: a man bursts into a women only area in order to catch a woman for being in the presence of another man, rather than in a women only area like she should have been.

Then again, I suppose that in the Magic Kingdom the rules are strictly enforced - they just don't apply to the religious elite.

29 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:03:02pm

re: #17 NonNativeTexan

Yet the UN continues to sanction Israel every other day.
I am convinced I live in an alternative universe. The real
world I know is never reported on. Maybe it is just me.....

the UN is a criminal enterprise...there is big money supporting Israels enemies

30 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:03:17pm

re: #11 Truck Monkey

What is it with these Saudi Men? They are such pussies that all they can do is beat on their women?

It's sad really..a culture that encourages this,,
We as part of the human race certainly have our work cut out for us..
This can not stand...

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:03:49pm

But this is not cognitive dissonance. They really don't want to free women from their bondage. The whole thing is an act, so it's not a big deal.

32 kansas  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:03:58pm

re: #11 Truck Monkey

What is it with these Saudi Men? They are such pussies that all they can do is beat on their women?

I'm pretty sure they can cut off your head if you have your hands tied behind your back.

33 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:04:00pm

re: #28 Sand Panda

The hypocrisy is utterly mind-boggling: a man bursts into a women only area in order to catch a woman for being in the presence of another man, rather than in a women only area like she should have been.

Then again, I suppose that in the Magic Kingdom the rules are strictly enforced - they just don't apply to the religious elite.

Funny how so many "religious elite" are hypocrites.

34 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:04:35pm

re: #29 albusteve

Yep.

35 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:04:36pm

re: #30 HoosierHoops

It's sad really..a culture that encourages this,,
We as part of the human race certainly have our work cut out for us..
This can not stand...

why not?...they are not going anywhere

36 Killian Bundy  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:04:41pm

Clinton to attend bank launch today

The Qatar First Investment Bank will be launched today. Former US President Bill Clinton will attend the private launching ceremony tonight at the Museum of Islamic Art.

Abdulla bin Fahad bin Ghorab Al Marri, chairman of the Qatar First Investment Bank, said it is a “great honour to have former President Clinton with us for this landmark event at Qatar’s Museum of Islamic Art.”

Al Marri said the Qatar First Investment Bank is a “new, independent fully Shariah-compliant investment bank with an authorised capital of QR3.6bn ($1bn) and a paid up capital of QR1.6bn ($430m). It is not affiliated with any other financial organisation and is licensed and regulated by the Qatar Financial Centre.”

/no conflict with the State Department to see here

37 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:04:48pm

Is it out of line to call a culture that tolerates this sort of thing barbaric?

Is it inaccurate to call them savages?

38 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:05:00pm

It's a Saud commentary on Islam.

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:05:22pm

re: #37 NukeAtomrod

Whom are you calling barbaric?

40 Kobalt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:05:24pm

Its of my opinion that this is the fault of israeli aggression

41 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:05:32pm

re: #30 HoosierHoops

It's sad really..a culture that encourages this,,
We as part of the human race certainly have our work cut out for us..
This can not stand...

Until we either start harvesting our own oil or develop viable alternatives, we don't have the leverage we should. Guess who is stopping us from becoming independent. Barack HUSSEIN 0bama and his band of merry dems.

42 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:05:55pm

re: #18 Syrah

When this repressive regime's stranglehold on the nation's women finally comes to an end I'm sure that the tales of many Ofahmeds and Ofismails will come to light.

43 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:11pm

re: #37 NukeAtomrod

Is it out of line to call a culture that tolerates this sort of thing barbaric?

Is it inaccurate to call them savages?

call them whatever you want...while you hand them their petro dollars

44 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:14pm

re: #36 Killian Bundy

Clinton to attend bank launch today

/no conflict with the State Department to see here

No conflict there at all. It is a simple sheikdown.

45 MJ  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:20pm

Let's not forget this outrage by the Kingdom though Chas Freedman would like you to forget:


Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

46 kansas  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:33pm

re: #40 Kobalt

Its of my opinion that this is the fault of israeli aggression

Forgot the sarc tag I see.

47 DEZes  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:49pm

re: #37 NukeAtomrod

Is it out of line to call a culture that tolerates this sort of thing barbaric?

Is it inaccurate to call them savages?

They sure as heck cant be called Nobel savages.
No matter what they are called, they make me sick.

48 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:06:54pm

Beat women, blow up stuff, and kill. When the oil and money are gone, nothing will have changed. They've advanced as far as Islam will take them, which isn't far.

49 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:03pm

re: #7 JammieWearingFool

Dragging a woman down the stairs by her hair? Sounds like behavior a certain New York Democrat can identify with.

wow that is totally off the radar here. . .did you guys know about Mel Renyolds?He had issues too. . .

50 jaunte  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:13pm

re: #41 soxfan4life

Until we either start harvesting our own oil or develop viable alternatives, we don't have the leverage we should. Guess who is stopping us from becoming independent. Barack HUSSEIN 0bama and his band of merry dems.

At least Ted Kennedy's view, the beaches of east and west coasts, and the desert tortoise environment will be safe.
/

51 Kobalt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:26pm

re: #46 kansas

Forgot the sarc tag I see.

whoops.... how do I do that?

52 marsl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:31pm

The alternative to the oppressing rule of the House of Saud (could be House of Sade) is a Khomeini-style theocracy.

Who do you choose: the not-so small evil or the greater evil? That's a tricky question....

53 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:50pm

Pathological.

54 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:07:51pm

Any chance Barry will give them the same crappy treatment he gave to PM Brown?

55 kansas  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:08:15pm

re: #51 Kobalt

whoops.... how do I do that?

/ or just say sarc. Unfortunately there are some assholes around here who would mean something like that. Glad to see you were kidding.

56 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:08:19pm

There was a blog, called the Religious Policeman, IIRC. It was very good.

57 DEZes  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:08:24pm

re: #51 Kobalt

whoops.... how do I do that?

How, easy.
/

58 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:08:27pm

re: #35 albusteve

why not?...they are not going anywhere

Ideas..Knowledge..Information..Freedom..
Knows no border any boundary....
/Well except in the grasshuts in NOKO..Verizon hasn't quite figured that one out yet. :)

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:08:50pm

re: #42 Sand Panda

When this repressive regime's stranglehold on the nation's women finally comes to an end I'm sure that the tales of many Ofahmeds and Ofismails will come to light.

There are a couple of books about being a woman in SA- The Princess Trilogy and Carmen Bin Laden's book (osama's sister-in-law). Both are quite appalling.

60 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:09:14pm

re: #43 albusteve

call them whatever you want...while you hand them their petro dollars

I don't own an oil company, but if I did, the US Government wouldn't allow me to drill for oil in any place that has oil. Stupid anti-business environmental policy has us over a barrel.

61 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:09:24pm
62 TheMatrix31  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:09:25pm
63 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:09:40pm

I worked/lived there for 5 years and the religious police can be frightening. It is the Dark Ages over there. And people think we are coming close to a theocracy here......sheesh. You ain't seen one till you've been over there.

64 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:10:01pm

re: #45 MJ

Let's not forget this outrage by the Kingdom though Chas Freedman would like you to forget:


Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Murderering BASTARDS!

In the immortal words of Golde- there will be peace in the region when the enemies of Israel love their children too much to send them to kill Israel's children. . .

65 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:10:19pm

re: #33 Sharmuta

Those that have the money to escape KSA do so; leaving their more unfortunate countrymen to the tender mercies of the Mutaween, whilst they enjoy the decadent western pleasures they so fiercely rail against in public.

66 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:10:54pm

re: #49 DisturbedEma

I noticed their was no R, D, or I attached to the name.

67 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:11:03pm

re: #60 NukeAtomrod

I don't own an oil company, but if I did, the US Government wouldn't allow me to drill for oil in any place that has oil. Stupid anti-business environmental policy has us over a barrel.

Drilling us dry. . .

68 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #47 DEZes

They sure as heck cant be called Nobel savages.
No matter what they are called, they make me sick.

Al Gore is a Nobel Savage. Perhaps you mean noble savage.

/ Couldn't resist.

69 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:11:19pm

re: #64 DisturbedEma

In the immortal words of Golde- there will be peace in the region when the enemies of Israel love their children too much to send them to kill Israel's children. . .

I loved Golde- what a leader.

70 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:11:55pm

re: #66 vagabond trader

I noticed their was no R, D, or I attached to the name.

Hmmm, really. . .default assumption holds. . .when not named. . .democrat!

71 DEZes  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:11:57pm

re: #68 NukeAtomrod

Al Gore is a Nobel Savage. Perhaps you mean noble savage.

/ Couldn't resist.

You are correct.

72 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:12:16pm

re: #65 Sand Panda

Those that have the money to escape KSA do so; leaving their more unfortunate countrymen to the tender mercies of the Mutaween, whilst they enjoy the decadent western pleasures they so fiercely rail against in public.

Same thing applies to Iran BTW. A friend of mine lived over there during the rise of the Ayotollah and said that the Iranians really enjoyed their vices once the doors were closed. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

73 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:12:55pm

re: #65 Sand Panda

Those that have the money to escape KSA do so; leaving their more unfortunate countrymen to the tender mercies of the Mutaween, whilst they enjoy the decadent western pleasures they so fiercely rail against in public.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Islam.

74 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:13:22pm

we did it with Iraq and we could do it again easily...fat chance...when I rule the world SA will cease to exist...such is life eh?

75 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:13:34pm

re: #65 Sand Panda

Those that have the money to escape KSA do so; leaving their more unfortunate countrymen to the tender mercies of the Mutaween, whilst they enjoy the decadent western pleasures they so fiercely rail against in public.

That's one of the appalling things in those books- how hypocritical the royals and elites are. The royals live in fear that their people will wise up and revolt. It's the only reason they ever crack down on terrorists in their midst- because they were the targets.

76 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:13:47pm

re: #63 LGoPs

Come on LGoPs, what's so bad about being arrested for having a bible or a picture of an, er, model? My fave are the highway exit signs for infidels.

77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:13:57pm

A very good friend of mine runs a GIGANTIC homeless shelter. She is one of the strongest, best people I have ever known. I have countless other examples of women I have known who were far more capable than their male counterparts.

What damage have Muslims done to themselves by excluding all of this potential?

78 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:09pm

re: #69 NonNativeTexan

I loved Golde- what a leader.


I paraphrased , she was awesome- while in government, there was a rash of rapes, and the government mulled a statement warning women to stay inside after dark. She replied that she did not understand that, MEN were raping the women, THE MEN should not be allowed out after dark. . .

79 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:25pm

re: #49 DisturbedEma

wow that is totally off the radar here. . .did you guys know about Mel Renyolds?He had issues too. . .

Yup, I remember Reynolds. Had a thing for the high school girls.

Another fine Chicago pol.

80 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:25pm

Our Friends the Saudis™

ick


Tax Alert

Snopes does not list this as "false," but you still may want to check this out with the IRS and/or your senators and representatives.

Income taxes are normally due on April 15th unless that date falls on a Saturday or Sunday, in which case they are due on Monday the 16th or 17th.

However, I have been told that rule has recently been changed for this and for at least the next 4 years, tax payments will not be due until you are nominated for a cabinet position.

Please check with your tax adviser to confirm.

81 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:32pm

re: #70 DisturbedEma

Yup, and da man set him up.

82 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:50pm

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A very good friend of mine runs a GIGANTIC homeless shelter. She is one of the strongest, best people I have ever known. I have countless other examples of women I have known who were far more capable than their male counterparts.

What damage have Muslims done to themselves by excluding all of this potential?

Educate a woman and you educate a family.

83 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:14:54pm

BTW - This morning Juan Cole whitewashed Wahhabis on NPR.

Softball interview.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Pretty vile.

84 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:15:38pm

On peace, she said in 1957, before the National Press Club in Washington: Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us. (She also made a similar statement specifically regarding Nasser.) In a similar vein, she would say, Peace will come when an Arab leader is courageous enough to wish it.
- Golda Meir

85 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:15:59pm

re: #76 vagabond trader

Come on LGoPs, what's so bad about being arrested for having a bible or a picture of an, er, model? My fave are the highway exit signs for infidels.

No kidding. I remember those signs steering us infidels around Mecca and Medinah......

86 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:16:01pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

Thanks for that - I'll be sure to look into it.

It's just that I'm a bit jaded about articles/books/films from the perspective of Saudi/other repressed Middle Eastern females. They always try so painfully hard to paint the situation in a positive light, often claiming that it's simply an Islamic variant of feminism. For example: the veil is actually liberating, and prevents rape and sexual assault e.t.c.

87 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:16:13pm

people rag on SA and their perverse religion...the hypocricy...well we put it there and support it with our own money...there is hypocricy enough to go around...we are not innocent

88 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:16:23pm

AIG execs agree to return $50M bonuses

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said Monday that 15 employees who received some of the largest bonuses from American International Group Inc. have agreed to return the more than $30 million worth of payments in full.

In total, AIG employees have agreed to return about $50 million of the $165 million in bonuses awarded earlier this month by the troubled insurer, Cuomo's office said.

89 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:16:24pm

re: #82 Sharmuta

Educate a woman and you educate a family.

"The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world."

90 Karmapolice  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:16:48pm

I honestly fail to see whats wrong with this. As much as I despise the House of Saud, they're a godsend for America. They are the only thing standing between the Islamists and power. I would rather they stay corrupt like this than move towards democracy, it would be the same scenario that happened in Gaza where the Islamists win by a landslide.

91 DEZes  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:15pm

Well all, tomorrow is a work day, I need some rest.
Later.

92 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:16pm
93 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #88 Sharmuta

AIG execs agree to return $50M bonuses

Lets see Congress follow their example.

94 capitalist piglet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:29pm

re: #64 DisturbedEma

Murderering BASTARDS!

In the immortal words of Golde- there will be peace in the region when the enemies of Israel love their children too much to send them to kill Israel's children. . .

Boy...read the article in this post and let it sink in. Can you imagine living in a place where this is considered normal behavior? Horrific.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is a sinful to approach them".

The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.


So they burned.

95 jaunte  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:38pm

re: #87 albusteve

people rag on SA and their perverse religion...the hypocricy...well we put it there and support it with our own money...there is hypocricy enough to go around...we are not innocent

The price we pay for clean beaches.

96 Racer X  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:46pm

re: #88 Sharmuta

AIG execs agree to return $50M bonuses

"And called upon congress to do the same"

- yeah, I wish

97 Karmapolice  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:17:54pm

re: #90 Karmapolice

Let me clarify what I said, lol. I do see a lot wrong with the way they treat women. I do not see anything wrong with the Saudi Government staying in power, no matter how corrupt.

98 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:18:02pm

re: #83 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - This morning Juan Cole whitewashed Wahhabis on NPR.

Softball interview.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Pretty vile.

Juan Cole should have just taken the first postion Obama had open...any position..Press sec would have been good..But the way he cheerleads on the sideline being MSM is just distasteful..Just join the Administration Juan..

100 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:18:06pm

re: #84 Spare O'Lake

On peace, she said in 1957, before the National Press Club in Washington: Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us. (She also made a similar statement specifically regarding Nasser.) In a similar vein, she would say, Peace will come when an Arab leader is courageous enough to wish it.
- Golda Meir

Still waiting- King Hussain was close, toward the end of his life he was starting to maybe come around- but that wife of his- FEH!

101 kansas  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:18:53pm

re: #90 Karmapolice

I honestly fail to see whats wrong with this. As much as I despise the House of Saud, they're a godsend for America. They are the only thing standing between the Islamists and power. I would rather they stay corrupt like this than move towards democracy, it would be the same scenario that happened in Gaza where the Islamists win by a landslide.

Yeah or here with Obama winning. Over time the Islamists might all be Democrats in California, Florida, and New York.

102 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:19:22pm

re: #9 Salamantis

I thought that dragging women by their hair was a behavior that dated back before the Dark ages, all the way to the Stone Age.

I don't know what the deal is with the grabbing a women by the hair, but it seems to be a universal act among women abusers. I've been involved with domestic violence groups and have heard this story many times.

103 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:19:34pm

re: #76 vagabond trader

Come on LGoPs, what's so bad about being arrested for having a bible or a picture of an, er, model? My fave are the highway exit signs for infidels.

I had my share of being chased by the Muttawa's while I was over there. Thankfully I had faster vehicles than them and drove better so I was able to get away. I was younger then and stupider and took risks I wouldn't now.........

104 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:19:56pm

re: #90 Karmapolice

I honestly fail to see whats wrong with this. As much as I despise the House of Saud, they're a godsend for America. They are the only thing standing between the Islamists and power. I would rather they stay corrupt like this than move towards democracy, it would be the same scenario that happened in Gaza where the Islamists win by a landslide.

Do not believe for one second that they are deterent for ANYTHING- how many 9-11 murderers were Saudi? There is no way that I can believe for a second that they will in any way benefit the US in any action or support mode. . .period. I do not trust them, end of story.

105 MJ  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:20:18pm

re: #83 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - This morning Juan Cole whitewashed Wahhabis on NPR.

Softball interview.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Pretty vile.

And yet, Juan Cole is the source whom New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristoff reads for his "insight" on the Middle East:

Nicholas Kristof has finally revealed his secret. In his Thursday ramble entitled "The Daily Me," he explains, almost as if he knows the topic desperately requires an explanation, why his Middle East commentary is really a rehash of Juan Cole. That's whose web-site he reads to get his opinions on the region: "The blog I turn to for insight into Middle East news is often Professor Juan Cole's, because he's smart, well-informed and sensible--in other words, I often agree with his take."

[Link: blogs.tnr.com...]

106 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:20:34pm

re: #87 albusteve

people rag on SA and their perverse religion...the hypocricy...well we put it there and support it with our own money...there is hypocricy enough to go around...we are not innocent

I am innocent. I don't demean women and treat them less than human.
The US has it's faults, I guess you might say that negates our
innocence. But there are degrees of bad behavior. I don't buy into
moral equivalence.

107 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:20:47pm

Another story of a long long time ago, we lived in Saudi and had a maid from Sri Lanka. Her husband had a different job on the other side of the country and when we visited there we took her along so she could visit her husband for a bit, who she hadn't seen in two years.

They both ended up being arrested for walking together in the street and even though they had papers showing they were married, that was not accepted. I called "my" Saudi who, reluctantly, called the authorities and vouched for her, with the comment that these people are here to work, not meet family. Of course that implicitly applied to me to, but I was worth money to little shit and he was worth more, money, than me, so we just carried on and a few more Sri Lankans hated Saudis too, not that it made much difference to anything.

Plenty more stories where that came from.....

108 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:21:00pm

re: #91 DEZes

Well all, tomorrow is a work day, I need some rest.
Later.

Hope to catch you tomorrow.
:)

109 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:21:08pm

re: #102 Silvergirl

I don't know what the deal is with the grabbing a women by the hair, but it seems to be a universal act among women abusers. I've been involved with domestic violence groups and have heard this story many times.

It is an immoblizing pain to be dragged by the hair- it can stop you in your tracks. . .if you resist, the pain is unbelievable

110 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:21:18pm

re: #103 LGoPs

You could have done the same here without risking your head.

/

111 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:21:18pm

Who was that guy who used to write for the Saudi Times and we had a sort of mutual lack of admiration going on? I can't come up with his name... ended up here, I think, writing...

112 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:22:25pm

re: #107 Naso Tang

Another story of a long long time ago, we lived in Saudi and had a maid from Sri Lanka. Her husband had a different job on the other side of the country and when we visited there we took her along so she could visit her husband for a bit, who she hadn't seen in two years.

They both ended up being arrested for walking together in the street and even though they had papers showing they were married, that was not accepted. I called "my" Saudi who, reluctantly, called the authorities and vouched for her, with the comment that these people are here to work, not meet family. Of course that implicitly applied to me to, but I was worth money to little shit and he was worth more, money, than me, so we just carried on and a few more Sri Lankans hated Saudis too, not that it made much difference to anything.

Plenty more stories where that came from.....


Indians and Sri Lankans are treated like absolute shit in SA, often trying to find a better life.

NONE of this makes it to the liberal press in India.

113 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:22:49pm
Dear President Obama,

Thank you for helping my neighbors with their mortgage payments. You know the one's down the street who in the good times refinanced their house several times and bought SUV's, ATV's, RV"s, a pool, a big screen, two Wave Runners and a Harley. But I was wondering, since I am paying my mortgage and theirs, could you arrange for me to borrow the Harley now and then?

Richard Ford
Queen Creek AZ

P.S. They also need help with their credit cards, when do you want me to start making those payments?
P.P.S. I almost forgot - they didn't file their income tax return this year. Should I go ahead and file for them or will you be appointing them to cabinet posts?

114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:22:57pm

re: #112 astronmr20

India's press is liberal too?

115 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:23:06pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

Each Saudi princeling lives a life of indolence and luxury; fathering several children who will go on to do the same. As systems of government go, I'd wager that it's one of the more unstable ones. Really, they're just like welfare dependants writ large, only instead of subsidised Fiats, it's free Rolls Royce Silver Ghosts.

116 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:23:57pm
117 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:01pm

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you KIDDING?

118 midwestgak  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:12pm

re: #102 Silvergirl

I don't know what the deal is with the grabbing a women by the hair, but it seems to be a universal act among women abusers. I've been involved with domestic violence groups and have heard this story many times.

A woman's hair is her glory. Image yourself, men included, having your body flung up, down and sideways because they have a good grip on your head. It disables, it intimidates, is hurts and it subjugates.

119 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:13pm

re: #115 Sand Panda

You know there was a concerted effort over there to...how you say...widen the gene pool.

120 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:15pm

Khadijah bint Khuwaylid

Khadijah's father, Khuwaylid ibn Asad, who died around 585, was a merchant, a successful businessman whose vast wealth and business talents were inherited by Khadijah, who successfully managed her father's business interests and preserved the family's fortune. It is said that when Banu Quraish's trade caravans gathered to embark upon their lengthy and arduous journey either to Syria during the summer or to Yemen during the winter, Khadijah's caravan equaled the caravans of all other traders of Quraish put together.

You've come a long way, baby!
/ yes, that was sarcasm

121 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:37pm

Upon hearing stories as this I begin leaning towards govt mandated alternative fuel sources.
GrrrGH

122 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:24:45pm

re: #112 astronmr20

Indians and Sri Lankans are treated like absolute shit in SA, often trying to find a better life.

NONE of this makes it to the liberal press in India.

Same in Kuwait. Poor guys were working for about $.25 an hour.

123 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:15pm

re: #106 NonNativeTexan

I am innocent. I don't demean women and treat them less than human.
The US has it's faults, I guess you might say that negates our
innocence. But there are degrees of bad behavior. I don't buy into
moral equivalence.

the House of Saud has power because it has wealth...from the west...same with the Taliban and their heroin...the people have no chance

124 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:19pm

re: #121 unrealizedviewpoint

Upon hearing stories as this I begin leaning towards govt mandated alternative fuel sources.
GrrrGH

I'm there.

125 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:24pm

re: #110 vagabond trader

You could have done the same here without risking your head.

/

Probably just some nasty jail time followed by a one way ticket out of the Kingdom. I was chasing gals. Saudi's don't work so the only single women they allow in is nurses. Mainly from Ireland, England and Australia. Of course being with a woman who's not your wife is big trouble but not of the head chopping kind. I wasn't that stupid.
:)

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:38pm

re: #117 astronmr20

Are you KIDDING?

"No. If I was kidding, I'd say, "What do you do with an elephant with three balls? Walk him, and pitch to the rhino."

No, how would I know the press in India?

127 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:43pm
128 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:46pm

re: #116 taxfreekiller

Just keep Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the commie Democrats in power and soon any one who does not toe the Government line will be dragged by the hair of the head into a redistribution camp and spent for the commie cause.

Guess I won't be going too far.

129 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:56pm

re: #122 soxfan4life

Same in Kuwait. Poor guys were working for about $.25 an hour.

And Dubai.

Islamic cretins gravitate towards slavery, and do the bare minimum to try and fulfill the "law."

130 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:25:57pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

There are a couple of books about being a woman in SA- The Princess Trilogy and Carmen Bin Laden's book (osama's sister-in-law). Both are quite appalling.

The book Infidel, about life as a woman in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, and Kenya, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was an eye-opener for me.

131 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:26:23pm

OT, wow, it is very windy tonite here in old New England.Scary too since we're practically surrounded by large trees.

132 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:26:28pm

re: #127 taxfreekiller

better

Just keep Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the commie Democrats in power and soon any one who does not toe the Government line will be dragged by the hair of the head by avanti into a redistribution camp and spent for the commie cause.

I've been working out.

I'll whip his ass if I need to.

133 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:03pm

re: #131 vagabond trader

OT, wow, it is very windy tonite here in old New England.Scary too since we're practically surrounded by large trees.

Didn't most of them break in the December ice storm?

134 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:12pm

re: #132 J.D.

I've been working out.

I'll whip his ass if I need to.

LOL

135 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:14pm

re: #112 astronmr20

Indians and Sri Lankans are treated like absolute shit in SA, often trying to find a better life.

NONE of this makes it to the liberal press in India.

Actually, I think it often does, but the bottom line is the very large amount of money it brings home. However even then I think there was a tendency to favor importing this kind of labor from Muslim countries, like Indonesia, because they were more compliant. I don't know what the picture is today.

136 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:39pm

Saudi Justice has been mocked. All those women from the center were, (never mind how it came to pass) in the company of a man not related to them. And yet with one measly exception, they escaped punishment. What is the world coming to?

/rop

137 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:39pm

re: #130 Silvergirl

The book Infidel, about life as a woman in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, and Kenya, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was an eye-opener for me.

I met her in Dallas and told her that it was humbling to be in the presence
of real courage.

138 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:27:45pm
139 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:05pm

re: #125 LGoPs

Heh, I remember back in the 80s when I was a nurse, they were always trying to recruit us.Fabulous wages, but no thanks, esp. since I'm a Juice.

140 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:21pm

re: #131 vagabond trader

OT, wow, it is very windy tonite here in old New England.Scary too since we're practically surrounded by large trees.

It is very windy. And freezing cold, too.

141 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:34pm

Well, at least Obama won't stroll around with them holding hands.
/Trying to look on the bright side.

142 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:36pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As liberal as they come. Mostly recycled from Reuters and AP, but still, enough of their own slant. When I was there, you've never seen so much unabashed Bush hatred in the media. It's tame over here in comparison.

This is despite the fact that Bush single-handedly helped launch them into a new age of nuclear energy.

143 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:41pm

re: #137 NonNativeTexan

I met her in Dallas and told her that it was humbling to be in the presence
of real courage.

Impressed!

144 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:47pm

re: #124 Last Mohican

I'm there.

the US has plenty of oil to see us into the future of renewables

145 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:28:56pm

re: #119 J.D.

Well, considering the prevalence of consanguinity disorders in that part of the world they need to try harder. Widening the gene pool doesn't adequately express it; it's more like upgrading a kid's paddling pool into Michael Phelp's personal training facility.

146 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:09pm

re: #140 Bloodnok

It is very windy. And freezing cold, too.

Global climate change!

147 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:18pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Well, at least Obama won't stroll around with them holding hands.
/Trying to look on the bright side.

Who do you figure will be avoiding who?

148 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:26pm

re: #127 taxfreekiller

better

Just keep Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the commie Democrats in power and soon any one who does not toe the Government line will be dragged by the hair of the head by avanti into a redistribution camp and spent for the commie cause.

Let them try.

Krav Maga can be devastating to the recipient.

149 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:30pm

re: #131 vagabond trader

OT, wow, it is very windy tonite here in old New England.Scary too since we're practically surrounded by large trees.

Hunker down. Do you have a basement you night sleep in tonight?

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:49pm

re: #142 astronmr20

Guess Mumbai came a little too late? What the hell, September 11th didn't help here.

151 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:29:50pm

re: #137 NonNativeTexan

What was she life in real life?

152 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:30:15pm

re: #143 Silvergirl

Impressed!

She is impressive.

153 jaunte  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:30:33pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Well, at least Obama won't stroll around with them holding hands.
/Trying to look on the bright side.

Plenty of time yet for him to think about his retirement fund.

154 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:30:42pm

re: #133 soxfan4life

Incredibly, we are about just south of where the worst happened, just missed it. A kid who does cutting for us had steady tree work in MA for months.

155 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:00pm

re: #145 Sand Panda

True.
They also need to try harder in many other ways.

156 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:02pm

re: #147 J.D.

He'll be friendly to the Saudis, and they'll be friendly. All our leaders are the same. Obama's friendship with the Saudi Royal family won't be quite as close Bush's

157 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:20pm

re: #137 NonNativeTexan

I met her in Dallas and told her that it was humbling to be in the presence
of real courage.

True enough, but not exactly representative of a "reformer". She is an atheist.

158 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:26pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Well, at least Obama won't stroll around with them holding hands.
/Trying to look on the bright side.

Give Obama a chance.

If Obama's overtures to the Iranians is any kind of predictor, Obama will do something much worse.

159 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:34pm

re: #153 jaunte

...and donations to his presidential library.

160 ratherdashing  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:39pm

re: #28 Sand Panda

The hypocrisy is utterly mind-boggling: a man bursts into a women only area in order to catch a woman for being in the presence of another man, rather than in a women only area like she should have been.

Then again, I suppose that in the Magic Kingdom the rules are strictly enforced - they just don't apply to the religious elite.

Oddly enough. Most responses in the Kingdom were from those upset that a man was in a women's area, NOT that police were pursuing a woman for the sole fact that she was with an unrelated male.

161 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:31:59pm

re: #121 unrealizedviewpoint

Upon hearing stories as this I begin leaning towards govt mandated alternative fuel sources.
GrrrGH

Domestic oil until we can get new nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams built. We're improving our battery technology very quickly. We could painlessly transition to fast-charge plug-in electric vehicles and/or modular battery packs that could be swapped at fueling stations. If we, as a culture, were serious about energy alternatives, we already be doing it. Guess what? We're not. We are still in denial (collectively.)

162 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:00pm

if the US had any moral courage at all it would withdraw from the UN and start charging rent for that land on the river...our feds are gutless

163 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:05pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Guess Mumbai came a little too late? What the hell, September 11th didn't help here.

No doubt in their own crisis, they were outraged in the press and "tough on terror," reporters openly calling the police and anti-terror units "heroes," but all while bashing the United States and Israel every day.

NDTV's coverage of the Gaza invasion was nothing less than criminal.

164 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:05pm

re: #154 vagabond trader

Incredibly, we are about just south of where the worst happened, just missed it. A kid who does cutting for us had steady tree work in MA for months.

I live in Central MA we got pounded. Seems like the area around Holden got hit real hard.

165 kansas  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:06pm

re: #158 Syrah

Give Obama a chance.

If Obama's overtures to the Iranians is any kind of predictor, Obama will do something much worse.

Any guesses how many of us he will get killed?

166 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:07pm

re: #158 Syrah

The Iranians don't want anything to do with him.

167 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:07pm

re: #115 Sand Panda

Each Saudi princeling lives a life of indolence and luxury; fathering several children who will go on to do the same. As systems of government go, I'd wager that it's one of the more unstable ones. Really, they're just like welfare dependants writ large, only instead of subsidised Fiats, it's free Rolls Royce Silver Ghosts.

In the Princess Trilogy, the Princess' son says pretty much this same thing- that his generation will continue to squander their wealth and live in fear of their own citizens.

168 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:30pm

re: #156 Killgore Trout

He'll be friendly to the Saudis, and they'll be friendly. All our leaders are the same. Obama's friendship with the Saudi Royal family won't be quite as close Bush's

And you know this how?

169 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:38pm

re: #151 Sand Panda

What was she life in real life?

I was struck by how she carried herself, with such decency and
of course I am a sucker for a British/English accent.

170 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:32:58pm

re: #157 Naso Tang

True enough, but not exactly representative of a "reformer". She is an atheist.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

171 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:33:04pm

re: #156 Killgore Trout

He'll be friendly to the Saudis, and they'll be friendly. All our leaders are the same. Obama's friendship with the Saudi Royal family won't be quite as close Bush's

meanwhile the feds hunt down pot smokers and jail them....

172 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:33:18pm

re: #149 Silvergirl

Sometimes I do go down there if we're having a violent thunderstorm. I'll tough this out with the cat, thanks.

173 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:33:22pm

re: #157 Naso Tang

True enough, but not exactly representative of a "reformer". She is an atheist.

If I had lived her life, it would probably have been enough to turn me against God. (Allah).

174 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:34:09pm

re: #161 NukeAtomrod

Domestic oil until we can get new nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams built. We're improving our battery technology very quickly. We could painlessly transition to fast-charge plug-in electric vehicles and/or modular battery packs that could be swapped at fueling stations. If we, as a culture, were serious about energy alternatives, we already be doing it. Guess what? We're not. We are still in denial (collectively.)


Would have to do a serious upgrade of the power grid before taxing it with electric vehicles.

175 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:34:26pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

The Iranians don't want anything to do with him.

Will their rejection of him make him want to grovel even more? I think it might.

176 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:34:46pm

re: #160 ratherdashing

I suppose that it's a question of scale:

An unrelated man + women <
An entire roomful of women + unrelated male

177 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:34:54pm

Hey, it's Allah's will, what's the big deal?

/George Galloway

178 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:34:56pm

re: #165 kansas

Any guesses how many of us he will get killed?

That is something I do not want to guess at.

179 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:35:33pm

re: #164 soxfan4life

Where are you? I'm in East Putnam CT.

180 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:35:36pm

re: #174 soxfan4life

Would have to do a serious upgrade of the power grid before taxing it with electric vehicles.

gosh!....well there sure will be money to be made there eh?....I wonder who BO will sponser for that gig?

181 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:36:12pm

re: #157 Naso Tang

True enough, but not exactly representative of a "reformer". She is an atheist.

Please excuse me. I Didn't mean to come off so harsh. What I mean to say is she can still affect change as a woman, even though she is no longer a Muslim.

182 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:36:27pm

re: #165 kansas

Any guesses how many of us he will get killed?

How many votes did McCain/Palin get in the general election?

183 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:36:29pm

re: #180 albusteve

gosh!....well there sure will be money to be made there eh?....I wonder who BO will sponser for that gig?

Shovel-ready!

184 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:11pm

re: #175 Syrah

Will their rejection of him make him want to grovel even more? I think it might.

They would respect him more if he said he wasn't going to take their sh*t any longer and is going to come over there and personally kick Dinnerjackets ass.

But, we all know that is wishful thinking. Maybe we can send his teleprompter over to kick his ass? (Naaah, the teleprompter is an even bigger wimp.)

185 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:13pm

It's been fun lizards. Gotta run. See you all later.

186 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:19pm

re: #179 vagabond trader

Where are you? I'm in East Putnam CT.

Leominster MA, home of Johnny Appleseed.

187 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:31pm

re: #169 NonNativeTexan

I've seen photos of her (and I don't mean to sound corny) but she really did seem to radiate a sort of calmness and inner strength.

I didn't know she had a British accent though - I thought that she left Somalia for Holland.

188 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:43pm

Nite LGoPs.
Pleasant dreams!

189 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:37:51pm

re: #180 albusteve

gosh!....well there sure will be money to be made there eh?....I wonder who BO will sponser for that gig?

It's in the works - and it's Green

190 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:38:04pm

re: #170 astronmr20

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

What the fuck is wrong with your command of language?

Are you suggesting that the only reasonable solution to reform in Islam is to persuade them to become atheists?

Since you don't seem to understand much, I'll explain. Her possible influence on the rights of women in places like Saudi (she is not Saudi) is 110% eliminated by the fact that she does not believe in any gods.

191 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:38:37pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

See my # 181.

192 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:38:52pm

From this article MJ linked to somewhere up above:

The radicals’ popularity began to wane in 2003, when a series of brutal terrorist attacks here killed Saudis as well as foreigners. At the same time, public anger at the intolerance of the cane-wielding religious police has grown, fueled by a younger generation that is more exposed to the outside world.

There are consequences to the internet. People are no longer as sheltered as their governments might want them to be. The genie is out of the bottle, and it won't go back in quietly.

193 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:39:45pm

re: #180 albusteve

gosh!....well there sure will be money to be made there eh?....I wonder who BO will sponser for that gig?

There are only a certain number of folks qualified to do that kind of work. And most of them aren't 0bama supporters.

194 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:39:55pm

I saw a show about the high life in SA. The homes were so incredibly vulgar, like huge upscale hotels,all steel glass and gaudy.The women were "allowed" to loosen up with the attire, shedding the tents.

195 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:39:55pm

OT: This car is not only ugly, but I'd hate to pass an 18-wheeler in it. Cheap, though.

196 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:23pm
197 Syrah  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:28pm

re: #184 Desert Dog

They would respect him more if he said he wasn't going to take their sh*t any longer and is going to come over there and personally kick Dinnerjackets ass.

But, we all know that is wishful thinking. Maybe we can send his teleprompter over to kick his ass? (Naaah, the teleprompter is an even bigger wimp.)

I am reminded of how the Democrat's electioneering caricature of Reagan as a lunatic cowboy hell-bent to push the button and nuke the world persuaded the Iranians to release the hostages on his swearing in.

198 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:29pm

re: #155 J.D.

True.
They also need to try harder in many other ways.

Ok - it's late, I'm tired and I'm quite possibly getting stupider with each passing moment. Whatever innuendo you're trying to make is consistently flying over my poor, overheated head. Please explain!

199 ratherdashing  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:41pm

promising reforms and delivering only more of the same

Things are moving ever so slowly in the KSA toward openness. The Saudis do have a new information minister who is expected to stand up against the hardliners regarding television and newspapers and magazines.

See this:

Hardline Saudi clerics urge TV ban on women, music

They are creeping toward modernity at a snails pace. Demographics may help some, since women are demanding more say and younger people are becoming more Westernized via the internet.

200 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:53pm

re: #193 soxfan4life

There are only a certain number of folks qualified to do that kind of work. And most of them aren't 0bama supporters.

it won't matter who they support...the feds will dictate contracts....and bonuses of course

201 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:41:35pm

re: #181 astronmr20

Please excuse me. I Didn't mean to come off so harsh. What I mean to say is she can still affect change as a woman, even though she is no longer a Muslim.

Accepted. Fast threads are dangerous places.

She can't affect that change in a muslim society because nothing she says will overcome that one issue. It wouldn't be a good idea to have the foremost spokesperson against creationism in US schools be an atheist either.

Yours trully included.

202 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:41:42pm

re: #187 Sand Panda

I've seen photos of her (and I don't mean to sound corny) but she really did seem to radiate a sort of calmness and inner strength.

You said it better than I, "inner strength" was the phrase I
was searching for. Maybe "European Accent" would better describe
her English.

203 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:42:03pm

re: #186 soxfan4life

We're practically neighbors. Nice to know there are a few pockets of sanity in the Northeast libral bubble.

204 gmsc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:43:08pm

re: #195 Silvergirl

OT: This car is not only ugly, but I'd hate to pass an 18-wheeler in it. Cheap, though.

Wait – No A/C? Say good-bye to any potential sales in Las Vegas.

205 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:43:15pm

re: #198 Sand Panda

Ok - it's late, I'm tired and I'm quite possibly getting stupider with each passing moment. Whatever innuendo you're trying to make is consistently flying over my poor, overheated head. Please explain!

Short version: The Saudis contribute little to the betterment of the world.
It's time they started, across the board.

206 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:43:27pm

re: #183 Bloodnok

Shovel-ready!

A new twist has spun the Stimulas package out of control.. A technological breakthrough has been developed to allow shovels to stand up by themselves.
This break through threatens millions of new green jobs for the obama administration and the Chicago Unions are stepping up to the plate.
The White House had no comment at this time..

207 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:43:33pm

re: #200 albusteve

it won't matter who they support...the feds will dictate contracts....and bonuses of course

Don't know about the power plant guys, but the linemen working on the power lines won't go if they don't get a favorable deal. It sucks enough working in the weather 100+ feet up on a pole without taking a shafting from the government.

208 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:44:27pm

Bottom line;

Saudi Arabia won't get changed by outside influences. Just as introducing democracy to a thousand year-old Islamic pissing contest in Iraq didn't stop people from trying to cut the throats of their political opposition.

We could use an economic carrot to try to affect change there, or a military one, but it won't change anything.

The Islamic world has to change from within. Plain and simple. In order for a culture to stand on it's own or to grow and thrive, the equal treatment and education of women is absolutely necessary. The only true test of any chance for reform in Shari'a countries is for them to stand on their own without outside aid or support; militarily financial, or even humanitarian. I'm not suggesting we do that, but the fact remains- that's the only test for change for the truly Islamic world.

209 jaunte  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:44:34pm

re: #204 gmsc

Wait – No A/C? Say good-bye to any potential sales in Las Vegas.

"Smells like our new economy."

210 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:45:29pm

re: #203 vagabond trader

We're practically neighbors. Nice to know there are a few pockets of sanity in the Northeast libral bubble.

Well it's pretty lonely not being a moonbat here in MA. Although good old Coupe Deval is doing a good job of converting the not so hard core.

211 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:45:41pm

re: #197 Syrah

I am reminded of how the Democrat's electioneering caricature of Reagan as a lunatic cowboy hell-bent to push the button and nuke the world persuaded the Iranians to release the hostages on his swearing in.

The Democrats seem to think that people like the mullahs and other assorted dictators respond better to carrots with no stick. Here in the real world, the carrots do not matter, only the stick....you show them the stick and show them you can use it anytime you want and use it effectively, you gain the respect of people like that. Carrots only work with reasonable people.

212 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:47:02pm

re: #168 J.D.

Just a guess.

213 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:47:59pm

re: #210 soxfan4life

HOPEfully his pal in DC will do the same for everywhere else.

214 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:48:10pm

re: #211 Desert Dog

The Democrats seem to think that people like the mullahs and other assorted dictators respond better to carrots with no stick. Here in the real world, the carrots do not matter, only the stick....you show them the stick and show them you can use it anytime you want and use it effectively, you gain the respect of people like that. Carrots only work with reasonable people.

Capone said you get further with a kind word and a gun than just with a
kind word alone.

215 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:48:24pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Just a guess.

We'll just have to wait and see.

216 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:48:38pm

I'd love to have this sung in Arabic and broadcast from a rogue station into every city, town, village and oasis in Saudi Arabia.

Or, just have it sung in English because I'm sure many of the concepts cannot be translated into Arabic.

217 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:49:56pm

re: #168 J.D.

And you know this how?

Maybe because many Arabs don't like people of African extraction.

218 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:50:22pm

re: #205 J.D.

Thanks - my overtired brain read too much into the italicised "other".

Though really, the theocratic nature of the regime pre-empts most, if not, any scientific advancement or research.

219 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:51:05pm

re: #208 astronmr20

Bottom line;

Saudi Arabia won't get changed by outside influences. Just as introducing democracy to a thousand year-old Islamic pissing contest in Iraq didn't stop people from trying to cut the throats of their political opposition.

We could use an economic carrot to try to affect change there, or a military one, but it won't change anything.

The Islamic world has to change from within. Plain and simple. In order for a culture to stand on it's own or to grow and thrive, the equal treatment and education of women is absolutely necessary. The only true test of any chance for reform in Shari'a countries is for them to stand on their own without outside aid or support; militarily financial, or even humanitarian. I'm not suggesting we do that, but the fact remains- that's the only test for change for the truly Islamic world.

Saudi Arabia will not change. They think their way is the true and natural path for men to follow. In their eyes, we are the loonies. The problem is the world is too small now for them to keep pushing their radical religious beliefs. They export Jihad and Wahhabism as much as they do oil.

We are at an impasse. And, unfortunately, we have lightweight at the helm. Bush was no better, he did nothing to check the Saudis.

One way in is the coming Iranian nuclear capability. Saudi Arabia will feel very threatened by that.

Clearly, something be done with the entire Muslim world. Lest we all slip back into the 7th Century....no thanks

220 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:51:44pm

re: #216 MandyManners

Or take a cue from this woman.
(warning, makes us men cringe)
[Link: www.metro.co.uk...]

221 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:52:33pm

re: #219 Desert Dog

Cut them off and let them drown in their own shit.

DRILL!

222 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:53:03pm

re: #219 Desert Dog

agreed absolutely....

223 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:53:28pm

re: #221 astronmr20

Cut them off and let them drown in their own shit.

DRILL!

Find a better energy source and tell them to go "F" a camel.....sounds good to me

224 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:54:56pm

re: #217 MandyManners

Maybe because many Arabs don't like people of African extraction.

Our Friends the Saudis™ surely do come in handy when a Presidential library needs to be built.

225 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:55:03pm

re: #222 albusteve

agreed absolutely....

I agree also..I don't even want to go back to the 80's much less the 7th Century.

226 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:55:17pm

re: #223 Desert Dog

Find a better energy source and tell them to go "F" a camel.....sounds good to me

We got enough oil in the ground here in the US to give us plenty of time to develop alternatives. Just start harvesting our own and let the goat rapers drown in theirs.

227 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:55:41pm

re: #220 NonNativeTexan

Or take a cue from this woman.
(warning, makes us men cringe)
[Link: www.metro.co.uk...]

Wow, don't mess with that woman!

228 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:56:44pm

re: #220 NonNativeTexan

Or take a cue from this woman.
(warning, makes us men cringe)
[Link: www.metro.co.uk...]

Ah, no. That's just not right.

229 astronmr20  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:57:05pm

re: #223 Desert Dog

Find a better energy source and tell them to go "F" a camel.....sounds good to me


A national nuclear power grid to fuel plug-in electric vehicles. Feed the needs of existing combustion engines with Methanol/ grass biomass, and drilling offshore.

Takes care of emissions, foreign oil dependence, renewability, and cost.

Done.

Unfortunately our elected officials are too stupid/greedy for such a simple solution.

/can I get a cookie?

230 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:57:24pm

re: #224 J.D.

Our Friends the Saudis™ surely do come in handy when a Presidential library needs to be built.

Let's see how much money they kick toward FCBBHO's library one day.

231 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:57:25pm

re: #227 Desert Dog

Wow, don't mess with that woman!

All's well that ends well.
enough, sort of
:D

232 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:57:55pm

re: #224 J.D.

Our Friends the Saudis™ surely do come in handy when a Presidential library needs to be built.

For certain Americans who happened to be an ex-President named Bill Clinton, the Saudis do come in handy. I prefer the Rudy Guiliani method of handing the money back to them and telling them to FOAD.

233 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:58:00pm

re: #167 Sharmuta

In the Princess Trilogy, the Princess' son says pretty much this same thing- that his generation will continue to squander their wealth and live in fear of their own citizens.


I suppose that the Saudi royals are at least aware of the reality of the situation. However the situation is so very precarious that even the slightest of reforms could cause the entire wretched system to come crumbling down around their ears - which means that after having painted themselves into a corner they are just sitting tight and hoping that it won't be their generation in power when the party is finally over.

234 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:00:30pm
235 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:01:20pm

re: #230 MandyManners

Let's see how much money they kick toward FCBBHO's library one day.

We certainly will see.
You know, neither Bush needed money from them at all. I think Jim Baker gained much more from his relationship with the Saudis. And I also believe that W did what W felt W needed to do after 9/11, no matter what it was. I used to work for an oil company and believe me, none of the guys who talked about the Saudis were fans, but they still had to deal with them.

236 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:01:20pm
237 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:01:42pm

re: #233 Sand Panda

I suppose that the Saudi royals are at least aware of the reality of the situation. However the situation is so very precarious that even the slightest of reforms could cause the entire wretched system to come crumbling down around their ears - which means that after having painted themselves into a corner they are just sitting tight and hoping that it won't be their generation in power when the party is finally over.

The Hashemites ruled that armpit of the world for centuries. The House of Saud is a newcomer. It's not like they have some ancient claim on the throne. They got placed their by the British, not by earning it themselves.

238 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:01:59pm

re: #235 J.D.

We certainly will see.
You know, neither Bush needed money from them at all. I think Jim Baker gained much more from his relationship with the Saudis. And I also believe that W did what W felt W needed to do after 9/11, no matter what it was. I used to work for an oil company and believe me, none of the guys who talked about the Saudis were fans, but they still had to deal with them.

You're an attorney so I'm sure you know of BakerBotts. Tentacles everywhere.

239 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:02:08pm

re: #219 Desert Dog

The other consideration is that they have about the world's highest birthrate. Over half their population is in its teens I believe, and dumb as hell. Scary stuff.

240 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:02:33pm

re: #232 Desert Dog

For certain Americans who happened to be an ex-President named Bill Clinton, the Saudis do come in handy. I prefer the Rudy Guiliani method of handing the money back to them and telling them to FOAD.

Rudy won me over back when he threw Arafat out of Lincoln Center.
And cleaning up New York rated up there, also.

241 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:02:52pm
242 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #233 Sand Panda

I suppose that the Saudi royals are at least aware of the reality of the situation. However the situation is so very precarious that even the slightest of reforms could cause the entire wretched system to come crumbling down around their ears - which means that after having painted themselves into a corner they are just sitting tight and hoping that it won't be their generation in power when the party is finally over.

And the other generations are hoping they're far away with their Swiss bank accounts intact so they avoid the likely bloodbath.

243 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:04:10pm
244 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:04:19pm

re: #237 Desert Dog

The Hashemites ruled that armpit of the world for centuries. The House of Saud is a newcomer. It's not like they have some ancient claim on the throne. They got placed their by the British, not by earning it themselves.

The Brits and the French sliced that whole region up. The confessional system the French installed in Lebanese government was insane.

245 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:04:55pm

re: #243 astronmr20

Either one works for me.

Cut off the head of the snake?

246 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:04:56pm

re: #238 MandyManners

You're an attorney so I'm sure you know of BakerBotts. Tentacles everywhere.

How dare you? LOL!
/just another lawyer joke

I'm not an attorney, but I did stay at a ...
But I am aware of BakerBotts. The Saudis practically own Rice University from what I've seen.

247 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:06:18pm

re: #243 astronmr20

Just a suggestion...don't go there. It isn't appreciated by the proprietor.

248 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:06:52pm

re: #246 J.D.

How dare you? LOL!
/just another lawyer joke

I'm not an attorney, but I did stay at a ...
But I am aware of BakerBotts. The Saudis practically own Rice University from what I've seen.

Well, then with which Lizard am I confusing you? Oh, dear.

James Baker is one of the most powerful men in the world.

249 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:07:40pm

re: #242 Sharmuta

And the other generations are hoping they're far away with their Swiss bank accounts intact so they avoid the likely bloodbath.

They have ruled that place with an iron fist. Then, they radicalized the population with Wahhabism for years. They demand the population live their lives by the letter of the Koran. They are going to get destroyed by their own creation. If you pump up your population with all that piety, and then live your life as a total hypocrite, what do you expect will happen, eh Prince?

250 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:07:40pm

re: #248 MandyManners

Well, then with which Lizard am I confusing you? Oh, dear.

James Baker is one of the most powerful men in the world.

reaganite used to call me "Sir" from time to time.
Cracked me up.

251 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:08:49pm

re: #248 MandyManners

James Baker is one of the most powerful men in the world.

Remember his "plan"?

It didn't catch on so well.

252 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:08:55pm

re: #237 Desert Dog

I had a vague inkling of the history, but your comment has just reminded me how ignorant I really am. This goes on my (ever-growing) "List of Things to Wikipedia When I Have a Spare Moment".

253 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:09:45pm

re: #250 J.D.

reaganite used to call me "Sir" from time to time.
Cracked me up.

IRRC, the Lizard I'm thinking of is a woman who finished law school and passed her bar a few months or so after I joined. We useta' use the "hurled-and-broken-plates" sound in the Lounge.

Aw, nutz. Now I'm worried.

254 Biff  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:09:57pm

re: #248 MandyManners

Oh, dear. James Baker is one of the most powerful men in the world.


Certainly one of the most powerful anti-semites.

255 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:10:20pm

re: #251 J.D.

Remember his "plan"?

It didn't catch on so well.

That does not negate his pull.

256 Kobalt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:10:45pm
Find a better energy source and tell them to go "F" a camel.....sounds good to me

Quoted for truth.

257 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:10:54pm

re: #254 Biff

Certainly one of the most powerful anti-semites.

Is he anti-semitic or pro oil?

258 Biff  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:11:49pm

Serious anti-semite. re his f the j's comment.

259 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:12:19pm

re: #256 Kobalt

Quoted for truth.

You're just over a week old so I don't wanna' be a meanie but, would you please use the "quote" function so that the rest of us can see whom you're quoting?

260 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #242 Sharmuta

And the other generations are hoping they're far away with their Swiss bank accounts intact so they avoid the likely bloodbath.

Sometimes I wonder how many vile dictatorships and thugocracies would disappear overnight if the Swiss banking system was ever shut down.

261 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:12:36pm

re: #253 MandyManners

IRRC, the Lizard I'm thinking of is a woman who finished law school and passed her bar a few months or so after I joined. We useta' use the "hurled-and-broken-plates" sound in the Lounge.

Aw, nutz. Now I'm worried.

I used the plates so much Charles took them away.
Well, I guess you all helped...lol

262 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:12:45pm

re: #258 Biff

Serious anti-semite. re his f the j's comment.

WTF? For real? No shit? WHEN?

263 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:13:19pm

re: #261 J.D.

I used the plates so much Charles took them away.
Well, I guess you all helped...lol

YOU'RE THE ONE, J.D..

But, who was the budding attorney?!

264 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:14:03pm

re: #255 MandyManners

That does not negate his pull.


His most influential years have probably passed.
I hope so.

265 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:15:14pm

re: #263 MandyManners

YOU'RE THE ONE, J.D..

But, who was the budding attorney?!

Wasn't me.

I wasn't ever even really much of a flower child...

266 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:16:12pm

re: #264 J.D.

His most influential years have probably passed.
I hope so.

I hope so considering what Biff said in No. 258.

267 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:16:42pm

re: #265 J.D.

Wasn't me.

I wasn't ever even really much of a flower child...

Yes, you and I threw a lot of plates but, you're not the attorney.

268 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:16:50pm

re: #260 Sand Panda

Sometimes I wonder how many vile dictatorships and thugocracies would disappear overnight if the Swiss banking system was ever shut down.

You forgot drug lords too

269 Biff  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:19:01pm

re: #265 J.D.

Where? When?
Go ahead and Google his name and the quote.

270 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:19:23pm

re: #268 Desert Dog

Oh, and terrorists and sundry corrupt and suspicious people...

271 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:19:32pm

re: #267 MandyManners

Yes, you and I threw a lot of plates but, you're not the attorney.

I'm just a mild-mannered business person.

I have to hire attorneys because I fall asleep reading all that crap!

272 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:20:35pm

re: #269 Biff

Where? When?
Go ahead and Google his name and the quote.

Where? When? What?

273 Biff  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:22:11pm

re: #262 MandyManners

Where? When?
Go ahead and Google his name and the quote.

(previous reply to wrong post)

274 Sand Panda  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:23:25pm

Goodnight Lizards - it's been fun but it's way past my bedtime.

275 Biff  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:23:26pm

re: #272 J.D.

Sorry JD, not sure how that happened.

276 mfarmer1  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:25:23pm

re: #168 J.D.

And you know this how?

I was thinking the same thing. If Bush made kissy face with these Saudi bastards while holding hands and skipping down the sidewalk, I thought Obama might actually slip them some tongue while he was at it. Ewwww. I hope Kilgore Trout is correct.

277 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:26:23pm

re: #260 Sand Panda

Sometimes I wonder how many vile dictatorships and thugocracies would disappear overnight if the Swiss banking system was ever shut down.

Indeed.

278 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:27:51pm

re: #276 mfarmer1

Well he surely didn't seem to care much for the "Brits", so maybe he'll like Our Friends the Saudis™ better?

279 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:28:42pm

re: #275 Biff

No problem. I thought you had me confused with Mandy. But you are most welcome to provide the quote. I'd be interested.

280 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:29:37pm

re: #271 J.D.

I'm just a mild-mannered business person.

I have to hire attorneys because I fall asleep reading all that crap!

DON'T FUCK WIF MAH HAID, WOMAN!

281 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:30:11pm

re: #273 Biff

Where? When?
Go ahead and Google his name and the quote.

(previous reply to wrong post)

Okay.

282 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:31:48pm
283 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:33:25pm

re: #277 Sharmuta

Indeed.

It's not for no reason that the they've been allowed to remain neutral for a long time.

I wonder if they will ever have attacks like those in Madrid, London, New York City and D.C.. If the Caliphate takes over Europe, will Switzerland be allowed to remain neutral?

284 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:34:08pm

re: #280 MandyManners

DON'T FUCK WIF MAH HAID, WOMAN!

:D

Do you remember who the Saudi Times writer was? Were you here when we had a little...tension?

285 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:36:12pm
286 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:37:11pm

re: #284 J.D.

:D

Do you remember who the Saudi Times writer was? Were you here when we had a little...tension?

BLOTTERFLASHBACK!BLOTTERFLASHBACK!BLOTTERFLASHBACK!

287 J.D.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:40:51pm
And then there was Secretary of State James Baker's infamous "fuck the Jews" remark. In a private conversation with a colleague about Israel, Baker reportedly uttered the vulgarity, noting that Jews "didn't vote for us anyway." This was more or less true—Bush got 27 percent of the Jewish vote, compared with 73 percent for Dukakis, in 1988. And thanks in part to Baker, it was even truer in 1992, when Bill Clinton got 78 percent of the Jewish vote and Bush got only 15 percent—the poorest showing by a Republican candidate since Barry Goldwater in 1964.


I've looked at several articles about it and none of them says who he was supposed to have said this to. Not saying he didn't, but..
I can't seem to find anything from snopes on it.

288 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:50:07pm

re: #287 J.D.

I've looked at several articles about it and none of them says who he was supposed to have said this to. Not saying he didn't, but..
I can't seem to find anything from snopes on it.

I've found nothing definitive, either.

289 Desert Dog  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 7:52:22pm

re: #288 MandyManners

I've found nothing definitive, either.

It says he said it - "on the internet" Doesn't that make it true?

290 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:06:55pm
291 tobariv  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:11:29pm

Bono said "free Gaza" at Obama's inaugural party. I wonder how much freedom he'd enjoy in Gaza as a Christian. Oh -he wouldn't be allowed in Mecca either for that matter. Only Muslim's allowed on the "holy "soil. Why doesn't he concern himself with the lack of human rights in the Muslim world?

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:22:56pm

re: #1 capitalist piglet

The L.A. chapter of N.O.W. had no comment.

The Methodist Church also had none. N.O.W. is not an international advocacy group.

293 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:25:19pm

Lizardim -

WHAT FRIENDS? At least the Vichy French had good tasting water. That is all.

-S-

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:27:24pm

re: #48 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Beat women, blow up stuff, and kill. When the oil and money are gone, nothing will have changed. They've advanced as far as Islam will take them, which isn't far.

When the oil and money are gone, they may have a chance. Not much of a one, I suppose.

A certain kind of religious fanaticism grows stronger in a wealthy society.

295 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:28:24pm

re: #291 tobariv

Bono said "free Gaza" at Obama's inaugural party. I wonder how much freedom he'd enjoy in Gaza as a Christian. Oh -he wouldn't be allowed in Mecca either for that matter. Only Muslim's allowed on the "holy "soil. Why doesn't he concern himself with the lack of human rights in the Muslim world?

tobariv -

Send BONO a ticket to the "Magic Kingdom" - and let him find out on his own. From what I remember from my youth, the Irish don't forget much, and act accordingly afterwards.

-S-

296 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:31:14pm

Let the Saudi's go their own way. Put some human rights requirements on them.

297 So?  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:32:56pm

The Saudis are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Dangerous ones in fact.

About 6 years ago I saw undercover report by the BBC or CBC about Saudi Sheiks flying into Monaco with their private jets. They would spend the weekend (Fri-Sun) partying in discos, drinking, fornicating with prostitutes, gambling and everything else that goes along with the opulent lifestyles of the rich and famous in Monaco. Then they'd jet home and behave like the tyrants they are.

Now here is my request: anybody who worked on that documentary, whether you were a producer or the coffee boy, if you could get a hold of this documentary and post it on YouTube we could finally lay to rest the utter hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia and this family of sheiks. Please, if you know someone who has a copy, convert it to DVD and download it to YouTube. Let the world see who is holding them hostage and how their tyranny at home is nothing more than a ploy to hold onto power. They are sick individuals who need to be exposed. And brought down.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:33:12pm

re: #86 Sand Panda

Thanks for that - I'll be sure to look into it.

It's just that I'm a bit jaded about articles/books/films from the perspective of Saudi/other repressed Middle Eastern females. They always try so painfully hard to paint the situation in a positive light, often claiming that it's simply an Islamic variant of feminism. For example: the veil is actually liberating, and prevents rape and sexual assault e.t.c.

If the Princess trilogy is the one I'm thinking of, no problem. The problem is reading it without throwing up.

That said, I'll post my usual rider--the veil is not the problem. The problem is violence against women.

299 So?  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:34:49pm

re: #291 tobariv

Bono said "free Gaza" at Obama's inaugural party. I wonder how much freedom he'd enjoy in Gaza as a Christian. Oh -he wouldn't be allowed in Mecca either for that matter. Only Muslim's allowed on the "holy "soil. Why doesn't he concern himself with the lack of human rights in the Muslim world?

Bono is a verifiable nutjob. It's his sunglasses everyone digs.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:36:21pm

re: #101 kansas

Yeah or here with Obama winning. Over time the Islamists might all be Democrats in California, Florida, and New York.

So, it's decided, democracy is too dangerous. Wait, isn't that what we said about Iraq for decades...oh dear. Now I'm all confused.

/quasi

301 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:41:00pm

I see a cabinet positon for this one. . .re: #299 So?

Bono is a verifiable nutjob. It's his sunglasses everyone digs.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:41:13pm

re: #120 abolitionist

Khadijah bint Khuwaylid


You've come a long way, baby!
/ yes, that was sarcasm

There's a remarkable history of kick-ass post-Muslim women as well. May their spirits guide their many-times-great granddaughters toward freedom and a fulfilling religious life.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:43:21pm

re: #139 vagabond trader

Heh, I remember back in the 80s when I was a nurse, they were always trying to recruit us.Fabulous wages, but no thanks, esp. since I'm a Juice.

Will they take Juices as guest workers?

304 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:45:16pm

re: #297 So?

So?

"And brought down." - YES! That is all.

-S-

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:47:38pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

What the fuck is wrong with your command of language?

Are you suggesting that the only reasonable solution to reform in Islam is to persuade them to become atheists?

Since you don't seem to understand much, I'll explain. Her possible influence on the rights of women in places like Saudi (she is not Saudi) is 110% eliminated by the fact that she does not believe in any gods.

Lord. People. DEEP breaths.

I have to say, I think her possible influence on the rights of women in places like Saudi started off 111% eliminated. However, the Muslim world is a lot bigger than Saudi.

306 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:48:40pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a remarkable history of kick-ass post-Muslim women as well. May their spirits guide their many-times-great granddaughters toward freedom and a fulfilling religious life.

SF Zionist -

...Hmm... she was Quaraish - SO, Muhammed's Wife was a Jewish Businesswoman?

-S-

307 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:49:53pm

re: #303 SanFranciscoZionist

Will they take Juices as guest workers?

No, it is a Juice free society. . .

308 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:51:13pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

Lord. People. DEEP breaths.

I have to say, I think her possible influence on the rights of women in places like Saudi started off 111% eliminated. However, the Muslim world is a lot bigger than Saudi.

In this society, MEN would have to speak for the women- men would have to stand up and say that the current way was wrong. . .which is why it is still no different- they do not want to change.

309 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:55:15pm

re: #308 DisturbedEma

Ema -

When/If women in the currently Muslim world start living like Western Women, there are only two possibilities:

1. Islam Reforms - Very Quickly.

2. Islam Dies - Could happen, haven't seen to many Zeus Temples lately.

-S-

310 Centauri  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:24:18pm

re: #309 Dr. Shalit

Ema -

When/If women in the currently Muslim world start living like Western Women, there are only two possibilities:

1. Islam Reforms - Very Quickly.

2. Islam Dies - Could happen, haven't seen to many Zeus Temples lately.

-S-

IN the Qur'an, there is no conflict in womens equality, that comes from the Sunni Hadith, which is NOT part of the true Qur'an, but those "added rules" are followed.

311 wiffersnapper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:38:47pm

Why am I not surprised?

312 Ledger1  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:54:51am

I doubt the Saudis will reform until the “religious police” are outlawed or completely de-fanged. That goes for the powerful so called “Clerics.”

The only immediate sign of minor change would be allowing women to own and drive their own cars. This would keep them from constant intimidation and surveillance. If this small act does not occur then no human rights progress has been made in Saudi Arabia.

0bama should bear some responsibility (he’s schooled in Islamic teaching and probably should be admonishing Saudi Clerics).

313 pupdawg  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:14:42am

re: #40 Kobalt

Its of my opinion that this is the fault of israeli aggression

and/or Bush's.

314 odorlesspaintthinner  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:04:04am

re: #171 albusteve

meanwhile the feds hunt down pot smokers and jail them....

That's the way they do it. I just got a bill from the IRS that I was $100 short on my taxes. Without my .00000000001% of the bailout, how will we save AIG? I was soft on the bonuses but this is a good reminder of what it boils down to. Predictably, O went soft on the bonuses after being the one to raise a fuss about them.

315 eaglewingz08  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:30:30am

I must have missed the NOW press release on this. I guess if they supported Bill's antics, they can't have much to say on real patriarchal abuse.

316 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:49:35am

re: #315 eaglewingz08

I must have missed it too. That's where organizations like NOW loose all credibility with me. The situation of women in Islam is one of the great tragedies of the world, yet NOW and other so called women's organizations in the West have nothing to say. Of course, now that the OIC has control of the UN, even mentioning that women are little more than slaves in the Muslim world is defaming Islam. Who cares about the truth?

317 gymnast  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:58:32am

It is my fervent hope that the shit house rats, known as Mutawah, in the Magic Kingdom are one day hunted down, slaughtered, and their bodies burned en mass as the first stage of their journey to Hell. The relationship between the Wahabi Rulers and the Wahabi Mutawah, however makes that highly unlikely, for it is the license granted to the Mutawah and the authority derived from the license that to a large extent, keeps the Royal Family in power.

318 Morganfrost  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:07:58am

Judges in the Sharia Court sentenced the woman to be flogged for being alone with a man. Then, the arresting officer pointed out that, after arresting her, he had dragged her by her hair down a flight of stairs and, for a few minutes was alone with her in the stairwell. Everyone in the Court had a good chuckle at the irony, whereupon the woman was sentenced to be flogged a second time and committed to an institution for repeat offenders.

319 Canoe Train  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:32:16am

re: #228 MandyManners

I have to agree with Mandy, here. If this was done out of a spirit of feeling morally superior, or empowering, how would women like it if some special body part of theirs was cut off ?

No one should be cutting off the body parts of anyone else, no matter how "empowered" it makes you feel.

320 Canoe Train  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:35:19am

re: #315 eaglewingz08

Indeed, NOW is probably too busy replacing anti-woman stereotypes with anti-male ones, and reinforcing anti-male stereotypes, here in Western Culture to actually care about what happens to women in parts of the world far more dangerous.

321 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:38:27am

re: #54 funky chicken

You think Obama will give the Saudis some DVDs that won't play in their players back home? I hope the DVD collection includes some "Girls Gone Wild" titles, you know, to make the camels and goats jealous...

322 Ming  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:45:21am

It is time for anyone who calls themselves a "feminist" to stand with women in countries like Saudi Arabia who are persecuted in so many ways, large and small.

323 arf  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 9:24:17am

I'm sure American feminists are all over this story.

........crickets.........

324 spinoneone  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 9:59:35am

Why would anyone be surprised? Just following the Qur'ran, don't ya know. Old Mo said we should/can do this, so, what the hell?

325 Cato  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:28:59pm

IMPORTANT

A friend called yesterday to tell me he was assigned by the UN to attend a review of Mecca and Medina to see whether UN funds were needed to make those places more spiffy.

My friend is not Muslim (he is Japanese).

I warned him that as a non-Muslim he might be killed for entering. He seemed unfazed because he was going in official UN logoed vehicles.

326 tobariv  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:38:41pm

re: #325 Cato

IMPORTANT

A friend called yesterday to tell me he was assigned by the UN to attend a review of Mecca and Medina to see whether UN funds were needed to make those places more spiffy.

My friend is not Muslim (he is Japanese).

I warned him that as a non-Muslim he might be killed for entering. He seemed unfazed because he was going in official UN logoed vehicles.


Why does the U.N. need to hel oil rich Saudi Arabia spiff up anything

327 tobariv  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:41:16pm

Should read why should UN help Saudi Arabia spiff up anything

328 liberalforisrael  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:52:45pm
Bono said "free Gaza" at Obama's inaugural party. I wonder how much freedom he'd enjoy in Gaza as a Christian. Oh -he wouldn't be allowed in Mecca either for that matter. Only Muslim's allowed on the "holy "soil. Why doesn't he concern himself with the lack of human rights in the Muslim world?


Free Gaza from hamas! Is he even aware that Gaza is ruled by hamas, not Israel? Bono is just another one of those clueless leftist punks which permeate the world of show business. They simply latch onto the latest trendy leftist causes.

329 Canoe Train  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:33:59am

re: #323 arf

re: #322 Ming

Please. American feminists are all about creating privilege where they can, not equality. While condemning domestic abuse, where are all the feminists saying that No one should hit anyone, and no woman should hit a man no matter what ( out of anger, revenge, jealousy, hormone imbalance, or to win an argument, or because she knows he won't hit back, or any reason whatsoever ). Some Women take this "you can't hit women attitude" as a license to abuse men usually verbally and emotionally -- but you'll never hear one peep out of NOW, or any feminist group, because just as they are silent about abuse and mistreatment of women in the Middle East, they are silent about reverse domestic abuse. They are about creating privilege where they can, and because they can't create privilege in the Mid East, they will remain silent about the women in that part of the globe.


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