1 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:41:51pm |
He's a creep, he's a weirdo, what the hell is he doing here, he doesn't belong here.
2 | Ben G. Hazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:42:54pm |
Watch the usual suspects in the wingnut blogosphere attempt to lay blame at Ms. Boudreaux and deflect it away from O'Keefe....
/"She deserved it..."
3 | bratwurst Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:43:44pm |
Who would have guessed that during a week in which we learned about this guy that the bar of creepiness could go even higher?
4 | bratwurst Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:45:06pm |
re: #2 talon_262
Watch the usual suspects in the wingnut blogosphere attempt to lay blame at Ms. Boudreaux and deflect it away from O'Keefe...
/"She deserved it..."
I am HOPEFUL we won't get any of that...but I fully expect the usual suspects to continue to refer to O'Keefe's "investigation" of ACORN as gospel.
5 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:45:23pm |
re: #1 HappyWarrior
He's a creep, he's a weirdo, what the hell is he doing here, he doesn't belong here.
he wants to be special ;)
6 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:46:10pm |
7 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:47:11pm |
[Hank_Hill]
That boy ain't right.
[/Hank_Hill]
8 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:47:29pm |
re: #4 bratwurst
I am HOPEFUL we won't get any of that...but I fully expect the usual suspects to continue to refer to O'Keefe's "investigation" of ACORN as gospel.
Not me, not after this. This discredits any work O'Keefe has ever done as far as I'm concerned. He's now in Stephen Glass territory as far as I'm concerned, minus the writing skills.
9 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:48:33pm |
re: #7 negativ
[Hank_Hill]
That boy ain't right.
[/Hank_Hill]
He's lucky he does hang with men like Hank. They'd kick O'Keefe's ass on principal.
10 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:49:21pm |
/For religious reasons I request a warning that the link will go to CNN...
11 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:51:19pm |
You know what's telling? The person who tipped the reporter into the trap was the female worker for O'Keefe.
It was too much for her.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
Media Matters has the whole, disgusting low down.
12 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:51:52pm |
Now a real sting with hidden cameras would be great in catching O'keefe's reaction to getting called out for being a weaselly little shit.
13 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:52:30pm |
re: #9 Dark_Falcon
He's lucky he does not hang with men like Hank. They'd kick O'Keefe's ass on principal.
PIMF
15 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:53:28pm |
re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Now a real sting with hidden cameras would be great in catching O'keefe's reaction to getting called out for being a weaselly little shit.
betyou hes in congress within 10 years...
16 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:54:09pm |
re: #11 Stanley Sea
You know what's telling? The person who tipped the reporter into the trap was the female worker for O'Keefe.
It was too much for her.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
Media Matters has the whole, disgusting low down.
Watch his fans say she was an undercover agent for ACORN or something nutty.
17 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:54:26pm |
re: #14 eclectic infidel
Oh gross. An ad for the Olive Garden.
hey its CNN they figured you would swallow anything :)
18 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:54:53pm |
How dare CNN use good looking, intelligent women with experience as investigative journalists to get a story instead of using cretinous white frat boys with experience as video editors like the Fox or Breitbart!
19 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:54:56pm |
20 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:55:43pm |
21 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:56:04pm |
re: #17 brookly red
hey its CNN they figured you would swallow anything :)
What's wrong with CNN? It's often liberal, but not ever crazy.
22 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:56:18pm |
24 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:57:29pm |
re: #21 Dark_Falcon
What's wrong with CNN? It's often liberal, but not ever crazy.
how as dinner at Olive Garden?
25 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:59:41pm |
re: #24 brookly red
how as dinner at Olive Garden?
I don't eat there. I eat at Leona's (which a chain owned locally here in Chicagoland) or at Maggiano's (which has better food than Olive Garden).
26 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:02:55pm |
re: #25 Dark_Falcon
I don't eat there. I eat at Leona's (which a chain owned locally here in Chicagoland) or at Maggiano's (which has better food than Olive Garden).
and I laugh at CNN... well I would if I ever watched it...
(yes and here will come some a-hole ranting about Fox before I have to tell them I have not watched TV outside of work for 15 years)
27 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:03:15pm |
I don't really understand what they were trying to do. My [probably feeble] understanding is that they wanted to invite the reporter to meet on a boat (which anyone who's seen a horror movie from the 80s or a porno from the 70s knows can never end well) on the pretense of giving her an interview about young conservatives, but once the reporter was there, the guy was going to pull some "seductive" Austin Powers bullshit that would make any woman either freak out or laugh uncontrollably. The Allen Funt cameras would be rolling, and somehow this would make the CNN reporter look bad (but not the creepy fuck with the strawberries hitting on the CNN reporter??) and would thereby damage the credibility of CNN?
If that's more or less accurate (and the email they reprinted seems to bear that out), then SOMEBODY needs to see a doctor.
29 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:04:10pm |
re: #17 brookly red
hey its CNN they figured you would swallow anything :)
Now that's funny. Thank you.
30 | joest73 Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:04:55pm |
After the ACORN thing I added him as a "friend" on facebook. I read about this story and deleted him right away.
What a punk......
31 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:04:57pm |
re: #26 brookly red
and I laugh at CNN... well I would if I ever watched it...
(yes and here will come some a-hole ranting about Fox before I have to tell them I have not watched TV outside of work for 15 years)
You right-wingers are weird.
32 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:05:49pm |
re: #29 eclectic infidel
Now that's funny. Thank you.
Oh Gawd...* banding head on desk* It is not funny!
35 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:07:15pm |
re: #27 negativ
O'Keefe needs to have his ass seriously kicked. Preferably by the CNN reporter he wanted to insult. Nothing major, nothing requiring the ICU, but a whoopin' to make him think twice of doing this again.
36 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:07:48pm |
re: #30 joest73
After the ACORN thing I added him as a "friend" on facebook. I read about this story and deleted him right away.
What a punk...
I'd go with "shithead", but "punk" also works. So does "poser", "fraud", and "wannabe". Feel free to add your own suggestions.
37 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:08:03pm |
re: #31 b_sharp
You right-wingers are weird.
I am a registered Democrat... my right -wingedness is only a cause & effect thingy.
38 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:08:14pm |
re: #36 Dark_Falcon
I'd go with "shithead", but "punk" also works. So does "poser", "fraud", and "wannabe". Feel free to add your own suggestions.
Douche?
39 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:08:19pm |
re: #35 eclectic infidel
O'Keefe needs to have his ass seriously kicked. Preferably by the CNN reporter he wanted to insult. Nothing major, nothing requiring the ICU, but a whoopin' to make him think twice of doing this again.
Quite Concur.
40 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:08:28pm |
re: #32 brookly red
Oh Gawd...* banding head on desk* It is not funny!
I used to work at a lumber yard and had to use the banding machine on bundles of lumber.
The image your typo brought to mind was hilarious. I wish I could draw and show it to you.
41 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:09:18pm |
re: #37 brookly red
I am a registered Democrat... my right -wingedness is only a cause & effect thingy.
You're still weird.
42 | bratwurst Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:09:44pm |
re: #15 brookly red
betyou hes in congress within 10 years...
First things first....you show up to vote for your gubernatorial candidate who watches bestiality videos and then we can talk about THIS pervert.
43 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:10:55pm |
44 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:15:06pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
re: #42 bratwurst
First things first...you show up to vote for your gubernatorial candidate who watches bestiality videos and then we can talk about THIS pervert.
Oh please are you people that scared? really... wow I kinda feel sorry for you. Well no not really.
45 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:15:16pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
First things first...you show up to vote for your gubernatorial candidate who watches bestiality videos and then we can talk about THIS pervert.
Paladino is a jackass. I hope he loses.
46 | MinisterO Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:15:24pm |
It could be a hoax. CNN has gone all in and FOX still hasn't covered at all as far as I can tell. I'm sure FOX will set us straight tomorrow AM.
47 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:16:28pm |
48 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:17:07pm |
re: #46 MinisterO
It could be a hoax. CNN has gone all in and FOX still hasn't covered at all as far as I can tell. I'm sure FOX will set us straight tomorrow AM.
I can't think of any reason why Fox or other conservative news sites would be completely ignoring this story. I bet the Islamic Supremacist Agenda is behind it.
49 | SteelGHAZI Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:17:20pm |
re: #46 MinisterO
I doubt Fox will even bother. Can't afford to harm one of their own.
50 | jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:17:36pm |
re: #46 MinisterO
It could be a hoax. CNN has gone all in and FOX still hasn't covered at all as far as I can tell. I'm sure FOX will set us straight tomorrow AM.
My good friend I do believe you forgot your sarc tag.
Allow me to lend you a few of mine...
/// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// ///
Take one of them, any one of them...
51 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:18:53pm |
re: #46 MinisterO
It could be a hoax. CNN has gone all in and FOX still hasn't covered at all as far as I can tell. I'm sure FOX will set us straight tomorrow AM.
I don't think CNN would pull a hoax like that. I don't even think Fox would do that. It's nasty and has minimal upside for a network. Why would CNN do that?
52 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:19:10pm |
re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I can't think of any reason why Fox or other conservative news sites would be completely ignoring this story. I bet the Islamic Supremacist Agenda is behind it.
You're wrong, it's ACORN. See ACORN when O'Keefe was at their office in California when he wasn't looking implemented a chip to make him do stupid shit like this and bug Mary Landrieu's office. ACORN is laughing in their secret lair on how they are controlling O'Keefe's brain and will soon control all of ours.
53 | Amory Blaine Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:19:15pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
First things first...you show up to vote for your gubernatorial candidate who watches bestiality videos and then we can talk about THIS pervert.
Stay classy Paladino!!!!
54 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:21:28pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
My good friend I do believe you forgot your sarc tag.
Allow me to lend you a few of mine...
/// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// ///
Take one of them, any one of them...
Seventh from the end please. And could you wrap it, it's a present.
55 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:21:44pm |
re: #52 HappyWarrior
You're wrong, it's ACORN. See ACORN when O'Keefe was at their office in California when he wasn't looking implemented a chip to make him do stupid shit like this and bug Mary Landrieu's office. ACORN is laughing in their secret lair on how they are controlling O'Keefe's brain and will soon control all of ours.
I see. Its all so clear now. But how does this affect the ACORN/ISA/SOROS/COMMUNIST agreement?
56 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:22:40pm |
re: #45 Dark_Falcon
Paladino is a jackass. I hope he loses.
You know we have an interesting case in NY. We got an inbred establishment cretan political insider running against an unknown wack job... well do you feel lucky? do yah?
57 | Lidane Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:23:16pm |
re: #2 talon_262
Watch the usual suspects in the wingnut blogosphere attempt to lay blame at Ms. Boudreaux and deflect it away from O'Keefe...
/"She deserved it..."
I won't be surprised at all when that happens. It's inevitable.
58 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:23:51pm |
re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I see. Its all so clear now. But how does this affect the ACORN/ISA/SOROS/COMMUNIST agreement?
Simple, Soros funds the damn thing.
59 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:24:59pm |
60 | MinisterO Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:25:14pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
My good friend I do believe you forgot your sarc tag.
Allow me to lend you a few of mine...
/// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// ///
Take one of them, any one of them...
Do you have any idea of the street value of those in the UNIX community? Any idea whatsoever?
61 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:25:20pm |
re: #56 brookly red
You know we have an interesting case in NY. We got an inbred establishment cretan political insider running against an unknown wack job... well do you feel lucky? do yah?
I'll take the insider. Because he's the non-hater. I don't like haters, and they normally don't make very good leaders.
63 | BongCrodny Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:26:25pm |
I think what's even scarier than his actions is that O'Keefe believes that he's the good guy.
64 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:26:37pm |
65 | jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:26:52pm |
re: #60 MinisterO
Do you have any idea of the street value of those in the UNIX community? Any idea whatsoever?
I may waste a fortune but it will be worth it just to make sure there are no misscomunications on LGF...
66 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:27:59pm |
re: #61 Dark_Falcon
I'll take the insider. Because he's the non-hater. I don't like haters, and they normally don't make very good leaders.
non hater? well his old man sure did show a lot of contempt for us taxpayers...
hey I don't think this one has a happily ever after ending.
67 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:28:00pm |
re: #63 BongCrodny
I think what's even scarier than his actions is that O'Keefe believes that he's the good guy.
Yeah, at least there are some douches out there who know they're a douche but O'Keefe thinks he's this crusader to ruin the left. Hint Jimmy you look like a complete jackass.
69 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:29:24pm |
70 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:29:32pm |
71 | Lidane Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:29:42pm |
re: #63 BongCrodny
I think what's even scarier than his actions is that O'Keefe believes that he's the good guy.
He thought the same thing with his bogus ACORN sting.
Nothing's changed here except that this time, he went after a white female reporter instead of a bunch of minority community organizers. Same creepy behavior, same MO, same self-righteous asshole mindset.
72 | joest73 Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:30:14pm |
re: #36 Dark_Falcon
I'd go with "shithead", but "punk" also works. So does "poser", "fraud", and "wannabe". Feel free to add your own suggestions.
neo-radical.... is suppose....but that would be calling him what he dreams himself to be.
Sorry for the long comment...but this was one of O'Keefes facebook notes:
***
Living on a Sailboat
by James O'Keefe on Sunday, September 21, 2008 at 11:50am
Freedom is, and should be, high on every human being's list. When living aboard, one usually develops an increasingly greater appreciation of freedom, a desire for more of it, and a certain incredulity at the average person's ability to give it up for bad reasons. It is easy to understand how mobility and independence from shore side entanglements are benefited by living aboard. However, it is often assumed to be an expensive lifestyle available only to the rich. In fact it offers a higher standard of living on lower incomes than just about any other way of life. Typically one can live a life that is similarly prosperous to that which you lead ashore, on about one-quarter of the income. The implications of that are obvious enough to require no more discussion here, except to point out that on a sailboat, traveling is even less expensive than staying in one place. This is because the traveler is less subject to the temptations and entanglements of the shore.
In fact if there is any one misconception that leads people astray most often, it is the idea that living aboard can be anything other than a minimalist lifestyle, for the most part. The live aboard lives on a frontier of society. Sometimes live aboards are on the frontier of civilization. The natural environment they live in is probably more destructive of structures, systems, and hardware than any other There is often nobody around who is skilled or knowledgeable enough to be of much outside assistance in problem solving. Self-sufficiency is called for to a greater degree than in most contemporary lifestyles, and the usual trappings of middle American life are very difficult to sustain and indeed become a nuisance. Big, complicated boats and plenty of money can obscure this truth, but complexity is fundamentally incompatible with the lifestyle. Even if one can solve any problem with one's money, the problems still occur. They also still cause anxiety and inconvenience . The more complicated one's situation and vessel, the more problems and the less fun you have.
The subject of living aboard demands the question, "Why do it?" Often the answer to this question involves adventure, romance, and freedom. These are certainly part of the lifestyle. The "adventure" part eventually turns into a kind of "in" joke. Most experienced cruisers and live aboards would agree that "adventure" is what happens when you make a mistake or are over-taken by events beyond your control. In some ways minimizing adventure is part of the art of living aboard!
Our feeling is that an appreciation of Nature and one's place in it should be the primary reason to adopt the live aboard lifestyle. Closely allied to this is the live aboard's primary learned wisdom. This is the art of adapting to Nature, accepting one's part in it, and to a degree submitting to it. This works. The other way around does not. Certainly the worst way of looking at life aboard would be to consider it conquering Nature or the Sea. No concept could be more dangerous.
All too often recreational activity on the water seems to consist of frantic athletic behavior or high speed transport, combined with a complete disregard for the Natural world. While these types of "water sports" are not all bad, they really offer a shallow and impoverished view of life on the water, and are not in harmony with it. Perhaps it is best to see living aboard as completely unrelated to this type of activity--in many ways it is not "recreation" at all.
73 | joest73 Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:30:50pm |
Living on a Sailboat (cont.)
by James O'Keefe on Sunday, September 21, 2008 at 11:50am
The live aboard lifestyle bears much more resemblance to the commercial sailing life of bygone years than to that of the jet-ski crowd. We urge everyone contemplating the life to make the best of the commercial sailors their role models, along with a big portion of Henry David Thoreau. This part of living aboard involves no sacrifice whatsoever. The endlessly changing sea, sky, and landscapes and the plant and animal life one encounters are a spectacular and spiritually uplifting display that never repeats itself and always has something to offer. The lack of this in much of modern land living seems to be the major reason why so many electronic entertainment devices seem necessities of life to many.
The next good reason to live aboard is a fascination with seamanship, and boats. Probably no other lifestyle is as intensely centered on a piece of technology as the live aboard's is on his or her boat, and its proper creation, evolution, and utilization. If it does fascinate you, we need say no more, because you must already realize there is a lifetime of leaming and enjoyment ahead of you. Undoubtedly the boats themselves, along with seamanship, tie in directly to the notion of romance. We urge everyone contemplating the live aboard life to aim for a boat which, while practical, also appeals to you on the romantic level. Boats that are appreciated in this way are better kept, better enjoyed, and better understood by their owners than any others It is small wonder so many are referred to as "members of the family". We would not be so narrow as to say this is only possible with wooden boats, because that's not true. It does seem to be true that wooden boat owners as a rule feel this kind of involvement more strongly. We will say that whatever the material you can't form the proper bond with a poorly built boat. You are much better off with a beautiful well built 25 footer than a ugly poorly built 50 footer.
Let's be very clear about this. If you take your children to live on a boat you are probably taking them to a less polluted, safer, environment. They can be with the people they love the most all the time. They will travel. They will meet and become comfortable with and able to deal with people of all ages and from different cultures and sub-cultures. They will become far more self-reliant and self motivated than the average child. They generally turn out to be hard working goal-oriented people who at the same time are more relaxed and confident about life than the average. Because you will probably educate them yourself using correspondence schools they are likely to be better educated than the average student in today's world. Tom and Nan's daughter started reading and writing independently at about half the age that education specialists set as a goal for the best educational systems. We have noted that virtually all children brought up on boats turn out to be exemplary people.
75 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:33:55pm |
re: #73 joest73
Living on a Sailboat (cont.)
by James O'Keefe on Sunday, September 21, 2008 at 11:50amBarf.
He lives with his parents and they don't want him in the house.
76 | webevintage Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:34:24pm |
re: #72 joest73
Sorry for the long comment...but this was one of O'Keefes facebook notes:
That was just...odd....
"Hey me hearties, a life at sea is the life for me"
77 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:35:14pm |
re: #75 b_sharp
He lives with his parents and they don't want him in the house.
Kinda like people at the stalker blogs.
78 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:35:25pm |
re: #74 Stanley Sea
YOU ARE VOTING FOR PALADINO, aren't you!
Truth, Brookly the democrat! Stand up and really say out loud that you like this cretin, because of ... ???
sorry kid you got excommunicated when you started in on my gf... I don't associate with people who do personal attacks, so please excuse me if I have no further contact with you.
80 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:36:26pm |
So O'Keefe has a weakness for seamen?
/Someone was going to say it eventually
81 | Lidane Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:36:44pm |
Shorter O'Keefe, but without the auto-tune or talent (NSFW link):
82 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:37:14pm |
re: #69 brookly red
just that roll on goop your wif...
never mind.
Have you been dancing with my wif...?
83 | joest73 Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:37:41pm |
re: #75 b_sharp
He lives with his parents and they don't want him in the house.
Sounds like the writings of a spoiled rich kid with too much time to waste...
Great find Breitbart....
84 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:38:37pm |
re: #82 b_sharp
Have you been dancing with my wif...?
No, I haven't been North in many years... but it is still fine country.
85 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:39:26pm |
86 | b_Snark Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:39:31pm |
re: #76 webevintage
That was just...odd...
"Hey me hearties, a life at sea is the life for me"
Arrh Bobby, me little mate, do you want a fish stick? Arrh.
87 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:40:39pm |
re: #77 Cannadian Club Akbar
Kinda like people at the stalker blogs.
Well, they mostly live under bridges.
88 | Amory Blaine Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:41:08pm |
re: #83 joest73
Sounds like the writings of a spoiled rich kid with too much time to waste...
Great find Breitbart...
James O'Keefe is a deep thinker.
89 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:41:30pm |
re: #78 brookly red
sorry kid you got excommunicated when you started in on my gf... I don't associate with people who do personal attacks, so please excuse me if I have no further contact with you.
hah. I'm here, and I'm not gonna back down. You are here posting your bizarre bullshit.
Answer the Q - you are voting for Paladino Right? Donkey Sex intrigued Paladino. Good for NY.
91 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:42:16pm |
re: #77 Cannadian Club Akbar
Kinda like people at the stalker blogs.
sheesh you can get stalked right here...
92 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:43:12pm |
re: #73 joest73
Let's be very clear about this. If you take your children to live on a boat you are
probably taking them to a less polluted, safer, environment.obviously a psycho intent on creating warped children who will spend the rest of their lives in search of "normal".
Adjusted for accuracy.
Is that meant to be taken seriously, or is it part of his "bait" for the CNN interview? I am no longer confident in my ability to discern satire or parody of kooky ideas from genuine kooky ideas.
93 | JRCMYP Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:43:31pm |
re: #46 MinisterO
It could be a hoax. CNN has gone all in and FOX still hasn't covered at all as far as I can tell. I'm sure FOX will set us straight tomorrow AM.
Yes, tomorrow AM I will run breathlessly to FOX News to get set straight.
//
95 | MinisterO Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:48:57pm |
re: #65 jamesfirecat
Evidently I shouldn't have skimped on the "/".
96 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:49:08pm |
re: #87 Dark_Falcon
Well, they mostly live under bridges.
Oh shit have you seen the prices in DUMBO?
(for non New Yorkers that stands for Down Under Manhattan Bridge ...)
97 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:49:47pm |
OT- My BIL has a friend in the head offices of MLB. He is working on getting me playoff tickets. YAH!!!!
98 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:50:43pm |
re: #96 brookly red
Oh shit have you seen the prices in DUMBO?
(for non New Yorkers that stands for Down Under Manhattan Bridge ...)
[smiles]
99 | goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:52:24pm |
I'm guessing that if he got her on the boat he would have argued some arcane maritime statute regarding a Captain's right to booty.
101 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:58:59pm |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
OT- My BIL has a friend in the head offices of MLB. He is working on getting me playoff tickets. YAH!!!
yet they fucked Patterson for something similar...
102 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:59:16pm |
re: #37 brookly red
I am a registered Democrat... my right -wingedness is only a cause & effect thingy.
Oh, BS. You may, in fact, be a registered Democrat, but as far as I can tell, you can't provide a single reason why, except for the issue of local elections.
103 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:59:57pm |
re: #91 brookly red
sheesh you can get stalked right here...
You stand outside one window in a raincoat with a hard on and ...
Nevermind
104 | Killgore Trout Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:01:11pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, BS. You may, in fact, be a registered Democrat, but as far as I can tell, you can't provide a single reason why, except for the issue of local elections.
Undercover wingnut iz undercover.
105 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:01:21pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, BS. You may, in fact, be a registered Democrat, but as far as I can tell, you can't provide a single reason why, except for the issue of local elections.
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections? back up off me honey.
106 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:01:37pm |
re: #101 brookly red
yet they fucked Patterson for something similar...
Only because he is black. And blind.
//
107 | Killgore Trout Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:02:53pm |
re: #105 brookly red
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections? back up off me honey.
Don't call her 'honey', darling. It's disrespectful, sweetcheeks.
108 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:04:27pm |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
Don't call her 'honey', darling. It's disrespectful, sweetcheeks.
don't you have a stream to swim up some where?
109 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:05:50pm |
re: #106 Cannadian Club Akbar
Only because he is black. And blind.
//
/shut up! he doesn't know hes black...
110 | CarleeCork Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:06:19pm |
111 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:06:29pm |
re: #105 brookly red
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections? back up off me honey.
asshole. liar (er, elaborator)
112 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:06:31pm |
re: #109 brookly red
/shut up! he doesn't know hes black...
"YOU MEAN I'M NOT WHITE!"
/Richard Pryor
113 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:07:07pm |
re: #109 brookly red
/shut up! he doesn't know hes black...
Kinda like Dave Chappell when he is the Grand Wizard of his branch of the KKK. Good stuff.
114 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:08:08pm |
re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"YOU MEAN I'M NOT WHITE!"
/Richard Pryor
I am kinda diggin Patterson... he has nothing to lose and he is rolling with it.
115 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:08:27pm |
Paladino, this is the dipschitt who said he'd use Eminent Domain to stop the mosque, right?
116 | goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:08:29pm |
re: #105 brookly red
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections?
I know they involve a candidate who enjoys watching and sharing bestiality videos, and that ideologically he seems to be right up your alley. If there is some further context within which we could place these established facts then it's up to you to provide it.
117 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:09:06pm |
118 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:09:28pm |
The hot chick on Mythbusters is destroying a car and using power tools. I want to marry her.
119 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:09:34pm |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
Don't call her 'honey', darling. It's disrespectful, sweetcheeks.
Ok, pookie!
LOL!
120 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:10:43pm |
re: #116 goddamnedfrank
I know they involve a candidate who enjoys watching and sharing bestiality videos, and that ideologically he seems to be right up your alley. If there is some further context within which we could place these established facts then it's up to you to provide it.
did you ever pass the 6th grade?
121 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:11:20pm |
re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar
The hot chick on Mythbusters is destroying a car and using power tools. I want to marry her.
When I see twenty-something IDF women with automatic weapons, my heart (read: my hormones) goes pitter patter over and over and over..
122 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:11:48pm |
re: #115 eclectic infidel
Paladino, this is the dipschitt who said he'd use Eminent Domain to stop the mosque, right?
Yep, the very same. Mr. Constitutional FAIL.
123 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:11:53pm |
re: #121 eclectic infidel
When I see twenty-something IDF women with automatic weapons, my heart (read: my hormones) goes pitter patter over and over and over..
I'm with ya.
124 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:11:59pm |
125 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:12:48pm |
Brookly, you have been called on your shit, and cannot elaborate or explain.
Instead you jibe at me and SFZ.
Put up, or shut up asshole.
You are voting for the racist, sexist (donkey email) Paladino.
Admit it and support it. (or deny it!)
Otherwise, just go back to talking about your imaginary democratic registration life.
As the great mighty Eric Cantor said, COME ON!
126 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:12:51pm |
re: #120 brookly red
Brookly, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
127 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:12:53pm |
128 | CarleeCork Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:13:20pm |
129 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:14:18pm |
re: #126 Dark_Falcon
Brookly, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
love you dude but I gotta be me
132 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:20:45pm |
133 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:21:33pm |
134 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:23:52pm |
Yo mugsy. I got this guy see. He's running for governor see. His name is Carl see. Paladino see. Carl Paladino. Yeah. Dat's da guys name see. If youze don't votes for him he'll take you out see. Or send you doity pictures see. Yeah. Dat's da ticket.
//
135 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:25:08pm |
re: #133 brookly red
how so?
Going after SFZ like that, for starters. Also, you're making a mistake if you support Paladino. He's a full-on asshole with a rotten streak and his idea to expropriate the Park 51 site is blatantly unconstitutional. It's a transparent bill of attainer.
136 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:25:50pm |
Off topic: A couple of wks ago I attended a blues festival in Castro Valley (California) - for those who don't know, Castro Valley is in the East Bay (region has cities like Berkeley, Oakland, and the infamous Orange Curtain* of Contra Costa County) of the immediate San Francisco Bay Area. The city is south of Oakland.
ANYWAY, good music, and good beer. The only beer being served was the following: Coors light, Red Seal Ale, and Scrimshaw Pilsner. NO way was I bothering with the first (though Coors has much more flavor than Bud), didn't find the Red Seal to be a big deal, so I took a chance with the Scrimshaw. Fortunately the guy pouring permitted me to try half an ounce before purchase.
A light but flavorful pilsner. Initial taste is somewhat fruity and has a delicious hop finish. For those who haven't had a decent pilsner yet, give this one a try.
---
*Orange Curtain refers to the Republican voting block in Contra Costa County (Orange for Orange County in So Cal, and Curtain refers, obviously to the Iron Curtain).
137 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:26:44pm |
re: #134 Gus 802
Yo mugsy. I got this guy see. He's running for governor see. His name is Carl see. Paladino see. Carl Paladino. Yeah. Dat's da guys name see. If youze don't votes for him he'll take you out see. Or send you doity pictures see. Yeah. Dat's da ticket.
//
Mel Blanc? Is that you speaking through Gus?
(Mel Blanc provided the voices of both Rocky and Mugsy in the Warner Brothers cartoons.)
138 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:27:37pm |
re: #137 Dark_Falcon
Mel Blanc? Is that you speaking through Gus?
(Mel Blanc provided the voices of both Rocky and Mugsy in the Warner Brothers cartoons.)
I was tinking Chauncey "Flatface" Frog.
140 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:31:45pm |
re: #125 Stanley Sea
Brookly, you have been called on your shit, and cannot elaborate or explain.
Instead you jibe at me and SFZ.
Put up, or shut up asshole.
You are voting for the racist, sexist (donkey email) Paladino.
Admit it and support it. (or deny it!)
Otherwise, just go back to talking about your imaginary democratic registration life.
As the great mighty Eric Cantor said, COME ON!
You go, Lady! Rock on!
141 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:32:07pm |
re: #135 Dark_Falcon
Going after SFZ like that, for starters. Also, you're making a mistake if you support Paladino. He's a full-on asshole with a rotten streak and his idea to expropriate the Park 51 site is blatantly unconstitutional. It's a transparent bill of attainer.
excuse me but she stepped to me (and she will be big enough to admit it) and who said I support Palidino? Did I say that? Please show me where... I am tired of this bullshit... but even if I did what the fuck business is it of anyone here? We have secret ballots for a reason & some people need to get with the program. I grow tired of the bullshit.
142 | Ojoe Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:32:24pm |
OT
Heard Obama on campaign trail via NPR, he was kind of yelling at people to vote for him, WTF?
Back with Towercam tomorrow.
Just finished 2 days brutal food bank truck driving.
Donations are down, and more people are showing up for food.
Things must change.
Good night.
143 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:33:28pm |
re: #141 brookly red
excuse me but she stepped to me (and she will be big enough to admit it) and who said I support Palidino? Did I say that? Please show me where... I am tired of this bullshit... but even if I did what the fuck business is it of anyone here? We have secret ballots for a reason & some people need to get with the program. I grow tired of the bullshit.
Oh. Are you supporting the in-bred Dem?
Just askin'...
144 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:35:19pm |
re: #143 austin_blue
Oh. Are you supporting the in-bred Dem?
Just askin'...
And I'm not asking if you are *voting* for him, just supporting him. Different question, innit?
145 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:36:22pm |
re: #142 Ojoe
OT
Heard Obama on campaign trail via NPR, he was kind of yelling at people to vote for him, WTF?
.
Well, let's hope he doesn't start the downward spiral that Howard Dean followed.
146 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:36:32pm |
re: #141 brookly red
excuse me but she stepped to me (and she will be big enough to admit it) and who said I support Palidino? Did I say that? Please show me where... I am tired of this bullshit... but even if I did what the fuck business is it of anyone here? We have secret ballots for a reason & some people need to get with the program. I grow tired of the bullshit.
That is why I said "if". I'm not sure who you support.
147 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:36:45pm |
re: #143 austin_blue
Oh. Are you supporting the in-bred Dem?
Just askin'...
and who I vote for it is your business because? Back off.
148 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:36:56pm |
Good night, all.
Be well.
Don't maim each other, OK?
149 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:37:56pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
That is why I said "if". I'm not sure who you support.
and really what matter is it to you?
150 | BongCrodny Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:38:37pm |
re: #147 brookly red
and who I vote for it is your business because? Back off.
It's nobody's business but yours, but then why hang out at a political website?
151 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:39:00pm |
re: #147 brookly red
and who I vote for it is your business because? Back off.
And my 144?
I'm just curious how you could possibly back anyone who is in-bred. Again, just askin'.
152 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:39:25pm |
I don't get this. Where's the smoking gun? If she's such a hot shit investigative reporter why didn't she get on that boat and showed us what this love boat looked like? This whole story is based on her ramblings, give us some proof!
153 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:40:03pm |
re: #152 yasharki
I don't get this. Where's the smoking gun? If she's such a hot shit investigative reporter why didn't she get on that boat and showed us what this love boat looked like? This whole story is based on her ramblings, give us some proof!
Of what?
154 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:40:12pm |
re: #150 BongCrodny
It's nobody's business but yours, but then why hang out at a political website?
and that is your business because? yeah like that.
157 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:41:22pm |
158 | Killgore Trout Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:41:33pm |
re: #152 yasharki
I don't get this. Where's the smoking gun? If she's such a hot shit investigative reporter why didn't she get on that boat and showed us what this love boat looked like? This whole story is based on her ramblings, give us some proof!
Uh, The tip came from an O'keefe associate. Nobody is disputing the facts in this case (aside from you)
159 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:42:13pm |
re: #156 yasharki
Of her "story".
I thought it was pretty clear. She chose not to get punked on the advice of the dickhead's girlfriend.
160 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:42:28pm |
re: #151 austin_blue
And my 144?
I'm just curious how you could possibly back anyone who is in-bred. Again, just askin'.
and my rights are violated by yer askin, dig? so let us stop the bull shit shall we .
161 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:44:17pm |
re: #158 Killgore Trout
The only affirmation of this comes from reporters own mouth, does it make it a fact?
162 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:44:33pm |
re: #160 brookly red
and my rights are violated by yer askin, dig? so let us stop the bull shit shall we .
Your rights?
Really?
I'm violating your "rights" by asking for your position?
What are you? A card carrying member of the ACLU?
Really?
I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!
163 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:45:44pm |
re: #158 Killgore Trout
Uh, The tip came from an O'keefe associate. Nobody is disputing the facts in this case (aside from you)
Well it will be disputed, just not by anyone serious. Both women will be denounced as "Radical Progressives" by the usual suspects.
164 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:46:34pm |
My point is: the only source of this story is the reporter herself, how do we know she's not making it up?
165 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:46:37pm |
166 | Honorary Consul General Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:46:51pm |
All righty. I have some Hulu to peek at and a chicken parm samich. Ya'll play nice. See you in the morning.
167 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:46:53pm |
re: #162 austin_blue
Your rights?
Really?
I'm violating your "rights" by asking for your position?
What are you? A card carrying member of the ACLU?
Really?
I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!
sorry dude your asking how I vote is a violation of my rights... I am surprised the management allows it...
168 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:47:15pm |
re: #164 yasharki
Why would she do that? What would make her take that kind of risk?
169 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:47:18pm |
Hang let me check. Give me a minute.
OK, I'm back. Yep. As I suspected. James O'Keefe is still a douche bag.
Any questions?
170 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:47:24pm |
re: #163 Dark_Falcon
Well it will be disputed, just not by anyone serious. Both women will be denounced as "Radical Progressives" by the usual suspects.
I think the "informer" played the "woman of negotiable love" at ACORN. Kind of hard to argue that she is on the D side of the ledger.
171 | freetoken Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:47:46pm |
172 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:48:41pm |
re: #168 Dark_Falcon
Attention whore comes to mind, job promotion, etc...
173 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:49:21pm |
re: #170 austin_blue
I think the "informer" played the "woman of negotiable love" at ACORN. Kind of hard to argue that she is on the D side of the ledger.
I think this is a different woman, wasn't the chick playing the prositute named Hannah and the chick who told Bordeaux of O'Keefe's plans is Izzy?
174 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:50:24pm |
re: #171 freetoken
Oh, they will. Let's just hope the change is for the better!
Change is the nature of the universe...
175 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:50:34pm |
re: #167 brookly red
sorry dude your asking how I vote is a violation of my rights... I am surprised the management allows it...
I didn't ask how you were going to vote, did I?
Go back to 143 and 144 and read the posts. Do you really do have a room temperature IQ? Too bad. I expected better of you. All you do is bob and weave. So sad.
176 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:51:09pm |
re: #170 austin_blue
I think the "informer" played the "woman of negotiable love" at ACORN. Kind of hard to argue that she is on the D side of the ledger.
They'll manage. It will be argued that because she informed Abbie Boudreaux of what O'Keefe was planned she has outed herself as a "Closet Radical" and a "Fake Conservative".
177 | CarleeCork Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:51:13pm |
Off topic from Craig Ferguson:
No spankin'
No yankin'
No jerkin'
Your gherkin....
Who was he talking about?
:snicker:
178 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:52:27pm |
re: #172 yasharki
Attention whore comes to mind, job promotion, etc...
Those phrases seem to better describe O'Keefe.
179 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:52:29pm |
re: #177 CarleeCork
Off topic from Craig Ferguson:
No spankin'
No yankin'
No jerkin'
Your gherkin...Who was he talking about?
:snicker:
Does it float?
/
180 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:52:41pm |
re: #175 austin_blue
I didn't ask how you were going to vote, did I?
Go back to 143 and 144 and read the posts. Do you really do have a room temperature IQ? Too bad. I expected better of you. All you do is bob and weave. So sad.
and all you do is look for some place to plant your talking points... please if you got something to say just do it.
181 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:53:01pm |
re: #173 HappyWarrior
I think this is a different woman, wasn't the chick playing the prositute named Hannah and the chick who told Bordeaux of O'Keefe's plans is Izzy?
It's certainly possible! All I know is that *someone* in the sordid mess has a conscience. And it's not the guy on the romantic 24" yacht (snort) with the Champers and berries.
182 | BongCrodny Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:53:20pm |
re: #167 brookly red
sorry dude your asking how I vote is a violation of my rights... I am surprised the management allows it...
I could see how forcing you to reveal how you vote would be a violation of your rights, but I don't see how *asking* you is. You have the right -- as you've repeatedly shown -- to not answer the question.
184 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:53:38pm |
re: #176 Dark_Falcon
They'll manage. It will be argued that because she informed Abbie Boudreaux of what O'Keefe was planned she has outed herself as a "Closet Radical" and a "Fake Conservative".
Yep. Seriously if David Frum who worked for George W Bush is denounced as a RINO then they will say much worse things about this woman.
185 | CarleeCork Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:54:17pm |
186 | HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:55:23pm |
re: #181 austin_blue
It's certainly possible! All I know is that *someone* in the sordid mess has a conscience. And it's not the guy on the romantic 24" yacht (snort) with the Champers and berries.
Yeah I am thinking maybe O'Keefe's associate had enough of his bullshit and decided to expose him for what he is. He really is a messed up individual. I think he loved being a right wing folk hero so much that he thought he could get away with this and the Landrieu bugging incident. Seriously, if I were a Republican this would be someone I'd want my campaigns to stay away from and not embrace since he's a reckless moron.
187 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:55:23pm |
re: #180 brookly red
and all you do is look for some place to plant your talking points... please if you got something to say just do it.
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. You simply refuse to answer. Again, pitiful. Major fail. You apparently have plenty of convictions, but there is no courage behind them.
Sigh.
188 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:55:38pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
Sure they do, but how do we know she's not another O'Keefe in a skirt? What do we know about her before this hyped "braking story"? It's not like she's Amanapour...
189 | goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:56:02pm |
re: #160 brookly red
and my rights are violated by yer askin, dig? so let us stop the bull shit shall we .
Your rights aren't being violated you hypersensitive joke of a man. They have a right to ask, you have a right not to answer, that's how freedom of speech works you fool. The question may be rude is many contexts, but this is a political blog, so you can man up or shut up, but for the love of God please stop whining about rights that you clearly do not understand.
192 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:58:07pm |
re: #182 BongCrodny
I could see how forcing you to reveal how you vote would be a violation of your rights, but I don't see how *asking* you is. You have the right -- as you've repeatedly shown -- to not answer the question.
again what fuckin business is it to you? and your pressuring me is starting to feel like intimidation... yeah I am starting to feel intimidated... do I need a lawyer?
193 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:59:44pm |
re: #187 austin_blue
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. You simply refuse to answer. Again, pitiful. Major fail. You apparently have plenty of convictions, but there is no courage behind them.
Sigh.
no... I oppose stupidity wherever I meet it .
194 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:59:50pm |
re: #105 brookly red
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections? back up off me honey.
I don't give a shit who you vote for, but when you keep up this pretense of 'Oh, I'm a Democrat', it grates me. Honey.
195 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:59:53pm |
re: #188 yasharki
Sure they do, but how do we know she's not another O'Keefe in a skirt? What do we know about her before this hyped "braking story"? It's not like she's Amanapour...
That's just the point: Even if she's a nobody, why would CNN clear this if it was a hoax? CNN got very badly burned when the fake "Operation Tailwind" story Peter Arnett hosted blew up in their face. I can't imagine they'd make that mistake again with a third-tier figure like O'Keefe. It makes no sense.
196 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:01:46pm |
re: #192 brookly red
You've just broken through the crust to the mantle. Let me know when you get to China.
197 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:02:13pm |
re: #141 brookly red
excuse me but she stepped to me (and she will be big enough to admit it) and who said I support Palidino? Did I say that? Please show me where... I am tired of this bullshit... but even if I did what the fuck business is it of anyone here? We have secret ballots for a reason & some people need to get with the program. I grow tired of the bullshit.
I STEPPED to you? Are you fucking kidding me? Look, I am a Democrat out of conviction. If you are registered so you get a say in local elections, that's your right, but I am sick to death of hearing about how you're a Democrat, and that's supposed to give your support of this or that Republican candidate some kind of depth.
198 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:03:15pm |
re: #195 Dark_Falcon
That's just the point: Even if she's a nobody, why would CNN clear this if it was a hoax? CNN got very badly burned when the fake "Operation Tailwind" story Peter Arnett hosted blew up in their face. I can't imagine they'd make that mistake again with a third-tier figure like O'Keefe. It makes no sense.
This is a false premised argument you're making, "If it's on CNN it must be true".
199 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:03:31pm |
re: #170 austin_blue
I think the "informer" played the "woman of negotiable love" at ACORN. Kind of hard to argue that she is on the D side of the ledger.
Oh, she was cute. Neither of them was real convincing, but she was awful cute.
200 | austin_blue Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:03:47pm |
And after this supremely frustrating night dealing with brookly red, who wants to maintain his ability to mock anybody and anything but not answer a single question himself, I bid you all adieu. As a poster on this board, I think he qualifies as the ultimate use(less) idiot.
Well played, BR!
201 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:04:24pm |
re: #192 brookly red
again what fuckin business is it to you? and your pressuring me is starting to feel like intimidation... yeah I am starting to feel intimidated... do I need a lawyer?
Go to bed.
202 | BongCrodny Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:04:35pm |
re: #192 brookly red
again what fuckin business is it to you? and your pressuring me is starting to feel like intimidation... yeah I am starting to feel intimidated... do I need a lawyer?
You must really be a bitch when you have to pay the rent.
203 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:04:54pm |
re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't give a shit who you vote for, but when you keep up this pretense of 'Oh, I'm a Democrat', it grates me. Honey.
Sweety pie, I am a democrat. I am a working man and support the little guy cause I am one. I just thank God have eyes & can see.
204 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:07:16pm |
re: #198 yasharki
This is a false premised argument you're making, "If it's on CNN it must be true".
No, I'm arguing that it beggars belief that CNN would air something like this and get behind it. The risk is completely out of proportion to the reward. Further, O'Keefe has a history of problematic, heavily edited pieces. Occam's Razor suggests him as the culprit.
206 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:08:40pm |
re: #200 austin_blue
And after this supremely frustrating night dealing with brookly red, who wants to maintain his ability to mock anybody and anything but not answer a single question himself, I bid you all adieu. As a poster on this board, I think he qualifies as the ultimate use(less) idiot.
Well played, BR!
Wow I never though I could be so important... and you Sir are the most useful idiot. If you even know wher... no of course you don't.
207 | sagehen Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:09:41pm |
re: #164 yasharki
My point is: the only source of this story is the reporter herself, how do we know she's not making it up?
She's not the only source. O'Keefe himself admits the authenticity of the document describing the plan but says he didn't intend to go through with the script as written.
208 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:10:02pm |
re: #204 Dark_Falcon
No, I'm arguing that it beggars belief that CNN would air something like this and get behind it. The risk is completely out of proportion to the reward. Further, O'Keefe has a history of problematic, heavily edited pieces. Occam's Razor suggests him as the culprit.
Again, you are basing your argument on assumptions, not facts, making it baseless and therefore invalid.
209 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:10:08pm |
re: #203 brookly red
Sweety pie, I am a democrat. I am a working man and support the little guy cause I am one. I just thank God have eyes & can see.
I almost started this one with 'sugar buns', but thought better of it.
Would you say that the Democratic party supports the little guy, and that is why you continue to identify as a Democrat?
210 | brookly red Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:12:05pm |
OK I see I am scaring people... it was never my intention. Well it is what it is :)
sleep tight my friends it is all good.
211 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:14:11pm |
re: #208 yasharki
Again, you are basing your argument on assumptions, not facts, making it baseless and therefore invalid.
Well, those assumptions fit all the facts in evidence. If you can come up with facts supporting some other scenario, present them.
212 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:14:45pm |
re: #210 brookly red
OK I see I am scaring people... it was never my intention. Well it is what it is :)
sleep tight my friends it is all good.
You seem to interpret irritation as fear a lot.
213 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:15:28pm |
re: #203 brookly red
Sweety pie, I am a democrat. I am a working man and support the little guy cause I am one. I just thank God have eyes & can see.
LIAR. and a total jerk to nice people on LGF. LIAR
214 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:15:51pm |
re: #207 sagehen
She's not the only source. O'Keefe himself admits the authenticity of the document describing the plan but says he didn't intend to go through with the script as written.
Now we're talking, I didn't know about O'Keefe himself corroborating this story. The fact would make her story viable.
215 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:16:40pm |
re: #203 brookly red
Sweety pie, I am a democrat. I am a working man and support the little guy cause I am one. I just thank God have eyes & can see.
Oh, and damn it on me to call you on it, you're not a working man, you are unemployed!
Keep up brookie
216 | CarleeCork Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:19:12pm |
Good night all, sweet dreams, I will leave you with this thought:
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
217 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:19:39pm |
re: #213 Stanley Sea
Stanley, what did I do wrong at #204 to merit a downding?
219 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:22:10pm |
It's just gonna be like this until November, isn't it?
220 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:25:26pm |
re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist
It's just gonna be like this until November, isn't it?
More or less. Then we get a year off. Then, 2012! The big one.
221 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:25:45pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
Stanley, what did I do wrong at #204 to merit a downding?
You did nada. I mis-dinged, and corrected. Sorry!
222 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:31:35pm |
re: #220 Gus 802
More or less. Then we get a year off. Then, 2012! The big one.
I'm almost praying that the Mayan thing wasn't full of shit.
223 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:32:03pm |
re: #218 Gus 802
This is informative.
Weird. Why is nuclear energy not cost effective? I'm not disputing this, just wondering.
224 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:34:24pm |
re: #223 yasharki
Weird. Why is nuclear energy not cost effective? I'm not disputing this, just wondering.
Waste. Watch the whole thing though. They talk about what happened with Yankee, the Fed payouts to utilities for not taking the wast (which goes up into the billions -- double digits soon), Yucca Mountain, and the European towns looking to attract nuclear was sites for money and jobs.
225 | Eclectic Infidel Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:35:52pm |
re: #222 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm almost praying that the Mayan thing wasn't full of shit.
The whole romantic storyline of the movie 2012 was 110% absurd, as was the rescue plan with the arks. Just silly. John Cusak gave an outright shitty performance. That said, it was neat to watch California literally sink into the pacific ocean.
226 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:35:58pm |
re: #222 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm almost praying that the Mayan thing wasn't full of shit.
I have thoughts like that when I'm feeling down and blue. Usually it involves a very large asteroid.
227 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:37:15pm |
re: #224 Gus 802
Waste. Watch the whole thing though. They talk about what happened with Yankee, the Fed payouts to utilities for not taking the wast (which goes up into the billions -- double digits soon), Yucca Mountain, and the European towns looking to attract nuclear
waswaste sites for money and jobs.
Darn it. My typing has been poor all day. Dealing with this crazy neck pain. Looks like the over the counter pain killers aren't helping much anymore. I'm doomed.
228 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:40:00pm |
re: #226 Gus 802
I have thoughts like that when I'm feeling down and blue. Usually it involves a very large asteroid.
I'm personally pulling for a Zombie Apocalypse or a Fallout Scenario.
229 | Timmeh Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:41:46pm |
re: #11 Stanley Sea
You know what's telling? The person who tipped the reporter into the trap was the female worker for O'Keefe.
It was too much for her.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
Media Matters has the whole, disgusting low down.
Good thing she had a conscience.
230 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:42:20pm |
re: #228 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm personally pulling for a Zombie Apocalypse or a Fallout Scenario.
The fallout would have to come first. Then the zombies would attack. I suppose it could also be a matter of choosing between nuclear, chemical, or biologically formed zombies. /
231 | Kragar Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:44:29pm |
re: #230 Gus 802
The fallout would have to come first. Then the zombies would attack. I suppose it could also be a matter of choosing between nuclear, chemical, or biologically formed zombies. /
Oh hell, lets go for all of the above, plus ancient Mayan spirits possessing the shells of the recently departed just to make things interesting.
232 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:46:13pm |
re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Oh hell, lets go for all of the above, plus ancient Mayan spirits possessing the shells of the recently departed just to make things interesting.
We are ancients Mayan zombies! We've come for your Spaniards.
/
233 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:51:32pm |
Army's largest base reeling from four apparent suicides in one weekend
(CNN) -- Four soldiers from Fort Hood, Texas died over the week. In all four cases, it appears the soldiers, all decorated veterans from the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, took their own lives, according to Christopher Haug, a Fort Hood spokesman.
If confirmed as suicides, it would be on top of 14 other suicides on the base this year. Base officials called a news conference for Wednesday afternoon to discuss the problem of suicides at the huge base in central Texas...
Wow.
234 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:52:42pm |
235 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:52:56pm |
re: #226 Gus 802
I have thoughts like that when I'm feeling down and blue. Usually it involves a very large asteroid.
236 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:54:02pm |
re: #105 brookly red
so Miss 3000 miles away what the fuck is it to you about my local elections? back up off me honey.
ahahah TOLD
237 | yasharki Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:55:43pm |
re: #224 Gus 802
Waste. Watch the whole thing though. They talk about what happened with Yankee, the Fed payouts to utilities for not taking the wast (which goes up into the billions -- double digits soon), Yucca Mountain, and the European towns looking to attract nuclear was sites for money and jobs.
Can't they just use an abandoned mine to store this waste? There are salt mines which are miles deep. One such mine could easily fit 70 thousand tons of nuclear waste, or even popcorn (volume wise). Soil would provide perfect protection from radiation topside, and a thin concrete cover would prevent ground water from mixing with the waste.
238 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:55:56pm |
re: #56 brookly red
You know we have an interesting case in NY. We got an inbred establishment cretan political insider running against an unknown wack job... well do you feel lucky? do yah?
If I still lived in my native state, I'd vote for the "inbred establishment cretin political insider" [note spelling--a "cretan" is someone from Crete]. He is more likely to understand how the system works (or doesn't) in Albany and use it to advantage, and he's more predictable.
I don't know all that much about Andrew, but his father, for all his doctrinaire liberalism, believed in it and IMO had both good intentions and good political skills.
239 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:56:31pm |
I'm going off topic to treat you with some late night awesomeness.
This is some Japanese tameshigiri by Ueki sensei. He is a legend.
This is a Korean demonstration of Gum-do.
If you can get past the cheesy music, you will see, nearly perfect form in a cutting demonstration that radiates utter awesomeness.
240 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 10:59:49pm |
re: #237 yasharki
Can't they just use an abandoned mine to store this waste? There are salt mines which are miles deep. One such mine could easily fit 70 thousand tons of nuclear waste, or even popcorn (volume wise). Soil would provide perfect protection from radiation topside, and a thin concrete cover would prevent ground water from mixing with the waste.
There are ways to handle the waste, technically. Dealing with local residents, i.e. Americans, is a different matter and it's usually called nimbyism. I also think they should reverse the ban on recycling of nuclear waste. Given that we've become rather adept as a security society the plutonium danger should be far lower than it was 30 years ago. Otherwise, unless they figure out what to do with the waste they might as well hang it up.
241 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:03:32pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, BS. You may, in fact, be a registered Democrat, but as far as I can tell, you can't provide a single reason why, except for the issue of local elections.
Social reasons. Except for the occasional mayoral race, being a Republican in NYC is a lonely thing.
242 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:07:23pm |
243 | sagehen Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:11:12pm |
re: #238 ClaudeMonet
I don't know all that much about Andrew, but his father, for all his doctrinaire liberalism, believed in it and IMO had both good intentions and good political skills.
He's not spectacular, but he's been useful and sane as AG. There's every indication he'd be a boring, plodding, and competent.
244 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:13:09pm |
re: #233 Gus 802
Army's largest base reeling from four apparent suicides in one weekend
Wow.
fucked up.
245 | Stanghazi Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:15:36pm |
re: #241 ClaudeMonet
Social reasons. Except for the occasional mayoral race, being a Republican in NYC is a lonely thing.
Brooklyn is full of shit. Dont waste your time.
246 | freetoken Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:15:58pm |
re: #237 yasharki
Can't they just use an abandoned mine to store this waste?
NO.
The waste remains dangerously radioactive for thousands of years.
Water just doesn't percolate from the surface. It flows through the ground a different levels. As the waste material is water soluble (and if in contact with water will react with other chemicals and the new compounds might be soluble), over time it would diffuse into neighboring areas.
Additionally, you need to make sure nobody can get at the stuff, except for yourself in case you want/need to use it in the future.
We shouldn't really be throwing it away anyway - it's a potent energy source.
247 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:17:19pm |
re: #181 austin_blue
It's certainly possible! All I know is that *someone* in the sordid mess has a conscience. And it's not the guy on the romantic 24" yacht (snort) with the Champers and berries.
I think you meant 24' rather than 24".
re: #227 Gus 802
Darn it. My typing has been poor all day. Dealing with this crazy neck pain. Looks like the over the counter pain killers aren't helping much anymore. I'm doomed.
When I've had back and/or neck problems and have gone to my GP, he's told me to go to a chiropractor. I'm skeptical about chiropractic, but I have to admit that my guy does wonders for me.
It's like the name of the New Age book/charms/crystals/alternative medicine shop a few blocks up from my chiropractor's office--"Whatever Works Wellness Store". When you're in pain, whatever works is good.
248 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:17:46pm |
re: #244 Stanley Sea
fucked up.
Sure is. Especially in that short length of time. I know the Army's been rather proactive this but they're going to have intensify their efforts after this. It's sad too that it will be ignored by certain segments of society since they view the open talk of suicide in the military as a sign of weakness. It needs to be more out in the open. With the general public that is.
249 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:19:25pm |
re: #247 ClaudeMonet
I think you meant 24' rather than 24".
re: #227 Gus 802
When I've had back and/or neck problems and have gone to my GP, he's told me to go to a chiropractor. I'm skeptical about chiropractic, but I have to admit that my guy does wonders for me.
It's like the name of the New Age book/charms/crystals/alternative medicine shop a few blocks up from my chiropractor's office--"Whatever Works Wellness Store". When you're in pain, whatever works is good.
I've mentioned it before but it's not in the spinal region. It's a "soft tissue" pain. Either in the muscle or ligaments on the left side.
250 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:20:31pm |
re: #237 yasharki
Can't they just use an abandoned mine to store this waste? There are salt mines which are miles deep. One such mine could easily fit 70 thousand tons of nuclear waste, or even popcorn (volume wise). Soil would provide perfect protection from radiation topside, and a thin concrete cover would prevent ground water from mixing with the waste.
That's been proposed for years, and it's always been shouted down by the NIMBY folks. For some reason, every time I've suggested storing it literally in the back yards of the NIMBY folks, they start with the vulgar language.
251 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:21:37pm |
re: #246 freetoken
NO.
The waste remains dangerously radioactive for thousands of years.
Water just doesn't percolate from the surface. It flows through the ground a different levels. As the waste material is water soluble (and if in contact with water will react with other chemicals and the new compounds might be soluble), over time it would diffuse into neighboring areas.
Additionally, you need to make sure nobody can get at the stuff, except for yourself in case you want/need to use it in the future.
We shouldn't really be throwing it away anyway - it's a potent energy source.
Exactly. Banning the recycling of nuclear waste was a bad move. It's time to bring it back.
252 | ClaudeMonet Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:22:29pm |
re: #249 Gus 802
I've mentioned it before but it's not in the spinal region. It's a "soft tissue" pain. Either in the muscle or ligaments on the left side.
A chiropractor may still be able to help, particularly if "standard medicine" hasn't worked. Whatever works, right?
And good luck!
253 | abolitionist Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:23:31pm |
re: #246 freetoken
NO.
The waste remains dangerously radioactive for thousands of years.
Water just doesn't percolate from the surface. It flows through the ground a different levels. As the waste material is water soluble (and if in contact with water will react with other chemicals and the new compounds might be soluble), over time it would diffuse into neighboring areas.
Additionally, you need to make sure nobody can get at the stuff, except for yourself in case you want/need to use it in the future.
We shouldn't really be throwing it away anyway - it's a potent energy source.
Good reply. Here's a ref. Water table -- wikpedia
254 | Gus Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:36:09pm |
re: #250 ClaudeMonet
That's been proposed for years, and it's always been shouted down by the NIMBY folks. For some reason, every time I've suggested storing it literally in the back yards of the NIMBY folks, they start with the vulgar language.
Americans are very superstitious people for an industrialized nation. Once they form an opinion about something even when it's based on fiction they tend to believe it as fact. This has been the case with nuclear waste. Yes, it is very dangerous but it's not dangerous to the point that people will vanish into dust like something out of a cartoon. Many will spend their days in fear of nuclear energy yet think nothing of going out under the sun with little or no protection. The largest source remains to be radon.
255 | Summer Seale Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:50:44pm |
O'Keefe is such a loser, and an idiot as well. There's no way that Boudreaux would have been "seduced" by him at all. That just goes to show you how unreal these idiots really are.
He's such a sleazy, racist, fuck. He thinks minorities all act as if they're in some sort of 70's porno film. Look at all of his "disguises" - the quintessential racist view of how "others" are. They match perfectly the caricatures of Nazi "cartoons".
And then look at his "plan" - trying to "expose" how CNN is "biased against Whites"? That's lesson plan 101 from the Nazi handbook of Stormfront and other Nazi organizations.
This guy is such filth and disgusts me. I truly hope that this episode has discredited him in all media outlets (save for Fox, naturally) for the rest of his pathetic life.
256 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:07:22am |
Speaking of loser, Limbaugh has the entire transcript up of this anti-Darwin rant today. Google doesn't have a cache yet, but search "Tackling Darwinism in Literalville".
It's more stupid than one would have imagined.
And Limbaugh knows it's stupid - that can be read between the lines. But he's playing his fans really well, and they are the ones who I would describe as "losers".
257 | ClaudeMonet Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:27:11am |
re: #256 freetoken
Speaking of loser, Limbaugh has the entire transcript up of this anti-Darwin rant today. Google doesn't have a cache yet, but search "Tackling Darwinism in Literalville".
It's more stupid than one would have imagined.
And Limbaugh knows it's stupid - that can be read between the lines. But he's playing his fans really well, and they are the ones who I would describe as "losers".
Does he, now? Does he really know it's stupid? Twenty years ago, certainly 10-15 years ago, I would have said that he's pwning his audience, playing them for suckers. Now I'm not so sure. I think between the drugs, time, and his increase in influence, he may have come to believe the crap he says.
If you play a role long enough...
258 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:29:30am |
re: #257 ClaudeMonet
The reason I'm convinced that he is playing his die-hard believers is because of how he changes the conversation with the caller. Reading the whole transcript one can see how Limbaugh maneuvers the conversation to where he can avoid actually answering a science question in a definitive way. Rather he carefully recasts it as an "us vs. them" issue.
259 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:31:31am |
Speaking of casting, recasting, and stupidity...
Wednesday's announcement of Gliese 581g certainly exposed American journalism and the media business for how clueless they are when it comes to science and technical matters. I've not seen this much mis-understanding (and idiotic self-contradictions that any good editor ought to catch) in a while.
260 | Summer Seale Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:33:21am |
re: #256 freetoken
I just read the whole thing. He's just a big fucking meathead who parrots the same ignorant bullshit that his fans want to hear. To me, that does make him a loser. If he actually does know that it's wrong, that makes him even more of a loser for being an immoral bastard.
He thinks Atheists don't have any morality? I've never done what he does, which is just plain wrong and evil. He's just an ignorant dick who has a big fat mouth with nothing useful or enlightening coming out of it except as a demonstration of what not to say or believe.
That bundle of pus has been listened to for far too long and it's time he is marginalized and mocked. And the same goes for all the rest of the bastards out there who propagate and believe this crap. They have done so much damage to the country, and it is only getting worse. I really think that it is time that the gloves come off on our side. I'm really upset over these issues. I know it shows, but that's what you get when people shove ignorance in my face day after day for so long.
Pisses me off.
261 | boredtechindenver Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:43:04am |
In the ongoing Boredtechindenver's home buying saga:
So yesterday (Tuesday) we had the inspection. The inspector found the furnace blower fan didn't work, there weren't CO detector/alarms (man, I should have seen that), some outlets didn't have ground wires, no GFI outlets in the garage, etc., etc., and on and on.
Then today, it was highly suggested that I get the sewer line scoped. One two foot section has a break, and there is a 4 to 6 foot section where the sludge (which is a euphemism) gathers, and the TP and other sediment have taken up residence, but water flows.
These are the reasons I was never in the market to buy. And now I am wondering if I put an offer on the right house. $500/month more is a lot of money, but I am wondering.
I also see a great need, but damned if I will share the idea. (back in 1999 i had the idea for putting MLS online but never did anything about it. I know there were probably sites in the bay area, but at my old job at "We Are Big Intertubez", I never had a customer pushing that idea. Lots of porn houses, etc, but no real estate sites. That started 2 years later.
262 | boredtechindenver Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:45:30am |
DPBD, but I am watching "Parenthood" on Hulu and Derek Jeter's fiance is on.
DAMN YOU DEREK JETER.
263 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:50:39am |
re: #261 boredtechindenver
That sounds not unusual, but it still makes that house more expensive to you than your offer would suggest.
If you remember when we first started this conversation I suggested that whenever I look at houses I see "maintenance".
Old houses have accumulated problems. Newer houses are in the processes of accumulating problems.
Your offer is just that, an offer. Did you put up any "ernest" money? If you still want that house you could always tell the current owners that you have to deduct the price of repairs (especially the sewer line replacement at the break) from that offer.
264 | boredtechindenver Thu, Sep 30, 2010 1:24:14am |
Actually, I think we are going to tell them that they have to cover the cost of the sewer and the furnace, and the CO detectors in the offer we made. Those are the major items. Pre inspection, we already agreed that they would rehang some doors, install a hood over the cooktop, and remove a fence section that does nothing but get in the way of any deck we build.
The earnest money is dependant on the inspection, and the sewer line is enough to cancel them keeping it if they choose not to fix.
I wish SWMBO had like the same house I did. The price is between the two, and truthfully, it was the only house i felt right at home when I walked onto the property. It had a huge well kept lawn, and even though I hate mowing, I would buy it in a heart beat. It was an instant reaction that I can't explain, and fiscally, it is the lowest priced house in the highest end neighborhood we saw.
265 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 1:27:27am |
re: #264 boredtechindenver
I wish SWMBO had like the same house I did. The price is between the two, and truthfully, it was the only house i felt right at home when I walked onto the property. It had a huge well kept lawn, and even though I hate mowing, I would buy it in a heart beat. It was an instant reaction that I can't explain, and fiscally, it is the lowest priced house in the highest end neighborhood we saw.
Well, I guess you had to settle for a compromise. Yet the part I boldfaced is indeed a known strategy to try and protect resale value so you had the right idea.
267 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Sep 30, 2010 1:47:07am |
This is the funniest Amazon reviewer I have ever read
The sign of a quality product is whether or not its existence is presaged for you in a dream during childhood. I dreamed of this Goya codfish batter mix. I was in an olive grove, Leo Sayer was playing, and then this Goya codfish batter mix --- startled, I awoke yelling "Bacalaitos", as though it were the name of a Spanish magician who was untying a silk handkerchief that had been blinding me. At last I could finally see.
With that being said, I prefer the Crab Place's more versatile Fish & Shrimp Batter sold here on Amazon. It can be used with codfish, basa, probably sea cucumber. Try it out.
4 stars.
268 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:18:08am |
Not the best audio... but this version seems to have more feeling than many:
269 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:23:40am |
Sometimes, I wish we had an "auto-downding every post by this commenter" option.
Johnny2Times, I'm looking at you!
:P
Morning!
270 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 3:36:59am |
re: #269 Varek Raith
Check this out:
Functioning 16 bit computer (well, just a processor at the moment) built inside the game minecraft.
Here's an explanation of the switches:
[Link: minecraftwiki.net...]
272 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 3:52:50am |
re: #271 Varek Raith
Watch the whole thing.
"Are listening, pig?" is now one of my favorite sayings.
273 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:07:41am |
re: #272 Obdicut
Watch the whole thing.
"Are listening, pig?" is now one of my favorite sayings.
I can't even imagine building something like that...
So cool.
274 | Johnny2Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:20:46am |
Much love for O'Keefe for exposing ACORN, but sadly he's gone off the deep end recently.
275 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:25:04am |
re: #274 Johnny2Times
Oh for the love of Zod.
Those Acorn tapes where heavily edited by Breitbart and crew.
Not to mention that James 'Bond' O'Keefe attempted to bug the office of a senator...
Though, I'm not surprised you don't care to know this.
276 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:27:36am |
re: #274 Johnny2Times
O'Keefe committed crimes in making the ACORN tapes, and prosecutors found no wrongdoing by ACORN employees.
So you have 'much love' for a criminal who exposed nothing.
278 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:30:02am |
re: #275 Varek Raith
Not to mention that James 'Bond' O'Keefe attempted to bug the office of a
Wait.
He did try this right?
That was what his stunt was about?
I want to get this right...
279 | Johnny2Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:40:52am |
re: #276 Obdicut
O'Keefe committed crimes in making the ACORN tapes, and prosecutors found no wrongdoing by ACORN employees.
So you have 'much love' for a criminal who exposed nothing.
It was obvious that ACORN was guilty of wrongdoing, but there wasn't enough evidence to convict some of the people in the videos.
280 | Johnny2Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:43:06am |
re: #275 Varek Raith
Oh for the love of Zod.
Those Acorn tapes where heavily edited by Breitbart and crew.
Not to mention that James 'Bond' O'Keefe attempted to bug the office of a senator...
Though, I'm not surprised you don't care to know this.
Like I said, the bugging incident was definitley crossing the line from investigative reporting to something like espionage. That doesn't change what he did on ACORN though. No matter how "heavily" those tapes were edited, clearly the people he spoke to were ready and willing to break the law.
281 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:45:20am |
re: #280 Johnny2Times
Like I said, the bugging incident was definitley crossing the line from investigative reporting to something like espionage. That doesn't change what he did on ACORN though. No matter how "heavily" those tapes were edited, clearly the people he spoke to were ready and willing to break the law.
Really?
You mean like the guy who kept pumping O'Keefe for infomration on the human body smuggling ring?
So that after he left he could call the cops on the thing?
The guy who got fired for that?
He was "willing to break the law"?
282 | bratwurst Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:47:21am |
re: #274 Johnny2Times
Much love for O'Keefe for exposing ACORN, but sadly he's gone off the deep end recently.
I must be psychic.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
283 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:53:56am |
re: #280 Johnny2Times
No matter how "heavily" those tapes were edited, clearly the people he spoke to were ready and willing to break the law.
That is one of the dumbest sentences I've ever read.
284 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:56:10am |
re: #279 Johnny2Times
It was obvious that ACORN was guilty of wrongdoing, but there wasn't enough evidence to convict some of the people in the videos.
No, you're not understanding. The investigations turned up no evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever. Not just not enough to convict. None at all.
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
On Sept. 15, 2009, my office began an investigation into possible criminality on the part of three ACORN employees," Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes said in a one-paragraph statement issued Monday afternoon.
"That investigation is now concluded and no criminality has been found."
[Link: www.rawstory.com...]
The 38-page report surveyed over 31 federal agencies, probing how ACORN used federal funds and whether adequate controls on spending existed.
The report found no evidence of fraud, lax oversight or misuse of federal funds.
285 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:57:42am |
re: #278 Varek Raith
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
286 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 4:59:32am |
287 | freetoken Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:02:47am |
NY Times obit for Tony Curtis:
288 | Johnny2Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:03:11am |
re: #284 Obdicut
No, you're not understanding. The investigations turned up no evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever. Not just not enough to convict. None at all.
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
[Link: www.rawstory.com...]
"the unedited version was not as clear"
That's why they didn't have a case. Not because ACORN was innocent of wrongdoing--they absolutely were not.
289 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:05:18am |
re: #288 Johnny2Times
"the unedited version was not as clear"
That's why they didn't have a case. Not because ACORN was innocent of wrongdoing--they absolutely were not.
Okay. Name what wrongdoing occurred, and prove it.
Without using psychic powers.
What happened to ACORN is a travesty of justice. A criminal and a liar, O'Keefe, edited videos to make it appear as though illegal actions had taken place, when they hadn't. Congress then defunded ACORN in a clearly wrong bill of attainder.
ACORN was targeted because they sign up minorities to vote, and provide other assistance in the minority community.
You have no proof. You have nothing.
291 | Johnny2Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:25:12am |
re: #289 Obdicut
Okay. Name what wrongdoing occurred, and prove it.
Without using psychic powers.
What happened to ACORN is a travesty of justice. A criminal and a liar, O'Keefe, edited videos to make it appear as though illegal actions had taken place, when they hadn't. Congress then defunded ACORN in a clearly wrong bill of attainder.
ACORN was targeted because they sign up minorities to vote, and provide other assistance in the minority community.
You have no proof. You have nothing.
You're a liar. A cowardly liar.
292 | Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:27:58am |
Just catching up here.
Is there anyone on the far right who doesn't act like a secondary character from a British sex comedy? All those creepy schoolmasters, voyeuristic butlers, and cross-dressing clergymen would fit right in with this mob.
293 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:28:00am |
re: #278 Varek Raith
re: #285 negativ
I can't believe we're still fighting about O'keefe and ACORN but there was no "attempted bugging" of any office. The "accusation" did not equate to reality hence the dropped charges. You might want to update your links:
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Four conservative activists accused of trying to tamper with the phones in Sen. Mary Landrieu's office pleaded guilty Wednesday to misdemeanor charges of entering federal property under false pretenses.James O'Keefe, 25, famous for wearing a pimp costume in a video that embarrassed the community organizing group ACORN, was sentenced to three years probation, 100 hours of community service and a $1,500 fine.
The FBI has said O'Keefe used his cell phone to try to capture video of two others who posed as telephone repairmen and asked to see the phones at Landrieu's office. O'Keefe has said the group was trying to investigate complaints that constituents calling Landrieu's office couldn't get through to criticize the Democrat's support of a health care reform bill.
Anyone who follows federal prosecutions knows if they had any chance at all of getting a conviction they would have proceeded with a trial. The feds don't do plea deals unless they have no case.
294 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:28:21am |
re: #287 freetoken
My two favorite Tony Curtis movies...
Some Like it Hot (Captain Obvious is Obvious)
and guilty pleasure?
The Great Race (Campy awesomeness!)
295 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:29:09am |
4th Quarter starts tomorrow and I have already sold 90% of my quota. Get to work you lazy bums! BBIAB.
297 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:36:37am |
This is bad.
This is worse than the Apocolypse.
.
.
.
.
I'm out of coffee.
298 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:39:22am |
re: #297 Varek Raith
A guy brought a five pound bag of coffee from Nicaragua to me. Just got it yesterday. It's just sitting there on the table, staring at me...
I might dump it out... might drink it sometime...
I'm not sure.
299 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:41:00am |
re: #293 RogueOne
re: #285 negativ
I can't believe we're still fighting about O'keefe and ACORN but there was no "attempted bugging" of any office. The "accusation" did not equate to reality hence the dropped charges. You might want to update your links:
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Anyone who follows federal prosecutions knows if they had any chance at all of getting a conviction they would have proceeded with a trial. The feds don't do plea deals unless they have no case.
Without getting involved in the argument as such, I need to point out that plea deals usually come about where:
a) both the prosecution and the defense have doubts about the outcome, and consider a negotiated result better than an uncertain one
b) the prosecution has a strong case, but is interested in trading part of the potential punishment for something of value from the defendant.
A defense attorney would be in serious breach of his duties towards his or her client in negotiating a plea deal when the prosecution "has no case". I think in this case, certain charges were dropped in return for a plea on the other charges, to avoid the uncertainty of trial.
300 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:41:10am |
re: #298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
A guy brought a five pound bag of coffee from Nicaragua to me. Just got it yesterday. It's just sitting there on the table, staring at me...
I might dump it out... might drink it sometime...
I'm not sure.
Nicaraguan coffee...
Hmmm, never had that.
BTW, are you getting any of this rain?
It's been pouring since midnight here...
301 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:42:06am |
re: #300 Varek Raith
Raining like a mofo.
By the way... that coffee post was simply made to antagonize you.
I does not appear to have worked.
302 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:42:55am |
re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Raining like a mofo.
By the way... that coffee post was simply made to antagonize you.
I does not appear to have worked.
Yeah...
That's odd...
Must be the lack of coffee.
303 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:44:03am |
re: #300 Varek Raith
Nicaraguan coffee...
Hmmm, never had that.
BTW, are you getting any of this rain?
It's been pouring since midnight here...
Pouring here. Dogs came in wet and muddy.
304 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:44:04am |
305 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:44:30am |
306 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:45:16am |
re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Hey! I have some!
/
Nothing.
No feeling of anger or envy.
I'm a frikkin' zombie here!
Halp!
307 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:46:18am |
re: #306 Varek Raith
Nothing.
No feeling of anger or envy.
I'm a frikkin' zombie here!
Halp!
Why are you without coffee today??
308 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:47:03am |
re: #305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
MUD POODLES!
Sure - 70lb poodle covered in rain with muddy paws. I hate wet dogs.
309 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:47:17am |
310 | Four More Tears Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:48:07am |
Anyone from my generation reminded of an old cartoon/toy line known as MASK by this?
312 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:49:38am |
313 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:49:58am |
re: #310 JasonA
Anyone from my generation reminded of an old cartoon/toy line known as MASK by this?
I want a Vertibird.
This is a potential step forward...
/
314 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:50:24am |
re: #310 JasonA
Anyone from my generation reminded of an old cartoon/toy line known as MASK by this?
Will never happen. More combat troops will be lost to midair Humvee collisions than to enemy fire.
315 | Ericus58 Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:02:51am |
LOL!
I came into work to over 110 email reply's in my inbox. Someone in our group sent out a request for info to a distribution list that pretty much encompasses EVERYONE in the company!
LOL...... some of the replies asking to be removed are hilarious... images of cans of spam....
The Best?
From Dimitry:
Народ хорош спамить! А!
Реплей олл НЕ ЖАТЬ!!!
hahaha, there's gonna be a blood-letting.....
316 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:05:49am |
Good morning lizards!
It's very wet here this morning.
317 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:10:05am |
re: #308 imp_62
Sure - 70lb poodle covered in rain with muddy paws. I hate wet dogs.
I know! They smell like...well, you know...
Good Morning Lizards from our Soggy Nation's Capital.
318 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:11:34am |
re: #317 rwdflynavy
I know! They smell like...well, you know...
Good Morning Lizards from our Soggy Nation's Capital.
Thank Zod I no longer need to hop onto 66 or 95...
HAHA!
/
319 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:13:18am |
re: #318 Varek Raith
Thank Zod I no longer need to hop onto 66 or 95...
HAHA!
/
I come straight up Route 1 from just north of Belvoir. Not a bad commute at all. When we move back into the 5 sided wind tunnel, I'll be back to the Metro Train.
320 | Varek Raith Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:15:02am |
re: #319 rwdflynavy
I come straight up Route 1 from just north of Belvoir. Not a bad commute at all. When we move back into the 5 sided wind tunnel, I'll be back to the Metro Train.
Man, Route 28 was/is probably always full of idiots this morning.
:/
321 | celticdragon Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:17:02am |
re: #71 Lidane
He thought the same thing with his bogus ACORN sting.
Nothing's changed here except that this time, he went after a white female reporter instead of a bunch of minority community organizers. Same creepy behavior, same MO, same self-righteous asshole mindset.
He wants to be this generation's combination of Nixon dirty tricks ratfucker and right wing Michael Moore combined.
The Nixon Committee to Re-elect the President (CRP), a private non-governmental campaign entity, used funds from its coffers to pay for, and later cover up, "dirty tricks" performed against opponents by Richard Nixon's employee, Donald Segretti. Segretti famously coined the term 'ratfucking' [1] for recruiting conservative members to infiltrate opposition groups to undermine the effectiveness of such opposition.
He is unaware that he has neither the brains nor the talent. He got lucky once. That's it.
323 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:23:20am |
324 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:26:16am |
325 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:31:26am |
re: #324 imp_62
Dude - how did it go yesterday?
I got paid (not much), 1 guy can't cash his check until tomorrow, a waiter and waitress didn't get a check. And I still need to update my resume, which I will do in a bit.
326 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:33:26am |
re: #299 imp_62
Without getting involved in the argument as such, I need to point out that plea deals usually come about where:
a) both the prosecution and the defense have doubts about the outcome, and consider a negotiated result better than an uncertain one
b) the prosecution has a strong case, but is interested in trading part of the potential punishment for something of value from the defendant.A defense attorney would be in serious breach of his duties towards his or her client in negotiating a plea deal when the prosecution "has no case". I think in this case, certain charges were dropped in return for a plea on the other charges, to avoid the uncertainty of trial.
The feds have a 95% conviction rate (mostly because they cheat) meaning in the mind of a federal prosecutor if they charge you there isn't any "uncertainty" at trial. If the feds had any case at all in regards to a wire tapping charge there wouldn't have been a plea deal that amounted to a slap on the wrist.
327 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:33:31am |
re: #325 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got paid (not much), 1 guy can't cash his check until tomorrow, a waiter and waitress didn't get a check. And I still need to update my resume, which I will do in a bit.
If you need help with the resume, I am happy to work with it. Plenty of experience hiring
328 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:35:14am |
re: #327 imp_62
If you need help with the resume, I am happy to work with it. Plenty of experience hiring
It is very wordy. Plus, there were times when I had 2 jobs at once. If someone doesn't look at the dates, it looks like I jumped from job to job.
329 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:37:41am |
re: #328 Cannadian Club Akbar
It is very wordy. Plus, there were times when I had 2 jobs at once. If someone doesn't look at the dates, it looks like I jumped from job to job.
There is a better way to organize it - seriously if you want some input, we can work out an anonymous way for me to have a look. or not anonymous, i frankly don't give.
330 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:39:07am |
re: #329 imp_62
My nic is blue. There is also stuff I don't have in it like training managers for a major restaurant change. Dark Falcon said I needed to add that in.
331 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:40:04am |
re: #330 Cannadian Club Akbar
change= chain, Geez. PIMF.
332 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:41:25am |
re: #330 Cannadian Club Akbar
My nic is blue. There is also stuff I don't have in it like training managers for a major restaurant change. Dark Falcon said I needed to add that in.
nic for what?
Dark Falcon is correct; anything that shows responsibility should be emphasized. Anything repetitive or overlapping can be put under a collective header, such as "Shift Manager Major Restaurant Chains 1999-2003" and then list the jobs
333 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:44:38am |
re: #332 imp_62
So, put something like that under accomplishments?
334 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:45:51am |
re: #333 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, put something like that under accomplishments?
"Job Experience". Accomplishments are individual acts, at a certain point in time. Same with Awards (e.g. 3x Emplyee of the Month)
335 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:47:55am |
re: #334 imp_62
So, I can shorten it by listing jobs with dates only, then add Job Experience as bullet points to what I have done?
336 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:51:01am |
re: #335 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, I can shorten it by listing jobs with dates only, then add Job Experience as bullet points to what I have done?
Actually dates and job title. Job when I was hired and job when I left. I moved up in a couple jobs rather quick.
337 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:57:48am |
re: #335 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, I can shorten it by listing jobs with dates only, then add Job Experience as bullet points to what I have done?
Take a consistent approach. An employer wants to know a couple of things without having to dig too deep into your resume:
- objectives: why are you applying to this job?
- relevant experience: what qualifies you for the job?
- what sets you apart: why you and not another candidate?
One size does not fit all in this situation. You might have several versions of your resume to apply for different types of jobs.
List bullets of your relevant experience first:
- sheep dip specialist training
- specialized in long distance spitting
- ....
then:
Education and Professional Training:
- Sheep wrangling Institute
- HS
- College
then work experience by date, if you have some overlap or multiple jobs in a short period:
3/2006 - present
Sheep shearing and Wool Spinning:
- abd inc.
- def llc.
Then -> Interests, Languages, Other
338 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 6:59:35am |
Just had a meeting with a large customer. There's a 50% chance I'll be getting a job in the 1st quarter of next year that will amount to an entire quarters quota for a 2 week job. Keep your fingers crossed and don't uncross them until say January 12.
339 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:03:46am |
re: #337 imp_62
When you say "What sets you apart", is it OK to use words that some would construe as bragging? ( exciting presentations, stepping it up beyond the ordinary, etc?)
341 | Ericus58 Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:05:51am |
re: #315 Ericus58
a follow-up report.....
That minor tremor everyone might have felt is nothing to be alarmed about.
The was from the detonation of the Inbox of the individual that was the original sender of the email blast...... last count, over 640 replies just to him alone - not counting the "reply all" emails.
This will go down as a "Southwest" moment.....
"Wanna get away?!"
342 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:06:09am |
re: #339 Cannadian Club Akbar
When you say "What sets you apart", is it OK to use words that some would construe as bragging? ( exciting presentations, stepping it up beyond the ordinary, etc?)
use superlatives, but in a professional way. eg:
- superlative powerpoint presentation skills
- frequently chosen to make presentations to senior management
- excellent communication skills
- Enthusiastic in accepting new challenges and assignments
343 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:08:10am |
re: #339 Cannadian Club Akbar
When you say "What sets you apart", is it OK to use words that some would construe as bragging? ( exciting presentations, stepping it up beyond the ordinary, etc?)
But don't overdo it. This should outline unique qualities that in fact set you apart. Saying you are a hard worker is not useful. If, however, you received an award as the employee who went above and beyond, you should say so up front
344 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:08:20am |
re: #342 imp_62
use superlatives, but in a professional way. eg:
- superlative powerpoint presentation skills
- frequently chosen to make presentations to senior management
- excellent communication skills
- Enthusiastic in accepting new challenges and assignments
OK. But I am looking for work in my fall back job. Restaurants. At my work now (mid- fancy) presentation of a plate is the difference between $14 and $21 a plate.
345 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:10:11am |
re: #336 Cannadian Club Akbar
"I was chosen to be responsible for management training of X number of store managers for X chain. I accomplished this in this amount of time and opened X stores."
Did you ever do any book keeping, tally of receipts and daily bank deposits?
Scheduling of staff hours, implementing (calling and brow beating) of staff schedule. "I don't care if your car won't start! Get in here!"
Recruitment and training of X staff duties
346 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:10:16am |
re: #344 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. But I am looking for work in my fall back job. Restaurants. At my work now (mid- fancy) presentation of a plate is the difference between $14 and $21 a plate.
If you are looking for work in a mid-fancy restaurant, and you know something about plating and presentation, point it out. You need to make your case for what YOUR value added proposition is for this specific employer.
347 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:10:40am |
re: #343 imp_62
Also, they guy I work for now I have worked for before. This is his second restaurant. If something bad happens, I can write my own reference and he'll sign it.
348 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:12:05am |
re: #343 imp_62
But don't overdo it. This should outline unique qualities that in fact set you apart. Saying you are a hard worker is not useful. If, however, you received an award as the employee who went above and beyond, you should say so up front
It needs to be worded in regards to the restaurant industry.
"I was responsible for weekly inventory and ordering from our suppliers. Finding best supplier and product for the menu."
349 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:13:04am |
re: #345 prairiefire
When I was the assistant general manager of a restaurant that sat 300 people, I would count the days deposits. Now this was before debit cards, but on Saturday nights, I would have 14K in cash to count and deposit.
350 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:13:09am |
re: #326 RogueOne
The feds have a 95% conviction rate (mostly because they cheat) meaning in the mind of a federal prosecutor if they charge you there isn't any "uncertainty" at trial. If the feds had any case at all in regards to a wire tapping charge there wouldn't have been a plea deal that amounted to a slap on the wrist.
Why on earth do you believe that, rather than that federal prosecutors tend not to prosecute unless they have a very solid case?
Your logic is really missing on that one. Or rather, it's backwards.
351 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:13:10am |
re: #347 Cannadian Club Akbar
Also, they guy I work for now I have worked for before. This is his second restaurant. If something bad happens, I can write my own reference and he'll sign it.
Careful with that. People can get kind of pissy about words being put in their mouth - especially these days.
352 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:14:34am |
re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar
When I was the assistant general manager of a restaurant that sat 300 people, I would count the days deposits. Now this was before debit cards, but on Saturday nights, I would have 14K in cash to count and deposit.
It is a responsibility to emphasize. I would love to sit and count 14K. I bet it takes awhile. My clothing store deposits were $300-1200.
353 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:14:51am |
re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar
When I was the assistant general manager of a restaurant that sat 300 people, I would count the days deposits. Now this was before debit cards, but on Saturday nights, I would have 14K in cash to count and deposit.
So yo need to say something like:
- responsible for reconciling significant daily receipts without supervision
354 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:16:02am |
re: #351 imp_62
Careful with that. People can get kind of pissy about words being put in their mouth - especially these days.
I would never go over the top. Plus he is also a friend after 13 years. When I started working with him, he had a crappy Ford truck. After I moved on the first time (5 years of working for him), he had a Mercedes and 2 Harleys.
355 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:18:22am |
re: #354 Cannadian Club Akbar
Successful restaurant owners are rarer than emeralds.
I'm glad I got out of bartending/waitstaffing. It was fun getting all the raw cash, but the owners, dear god, the owners were insane.
356 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:18:40am |
I haven't worked for a chain since about 1996. Just indy places. I also helped to tweak the menu of 2 places. Same guy.
357 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:20:20am |
re: #355 Obdicut
Successful restaurant owners are rarer than emeralds.
I'm glad I got out of bartending/waitstaffing. It was fun getting all the raw cash, but the owners, dear god, the owners were insane.
The guy I work for is insane. Probably because he's a Liberal!!
///HAR!! Actually we have great political conversations.
358 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:25:25am |
BTW, thanks for all the advice, Lizards. I'll have to do a total rewrite, but it will be a better resume.
359 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:26:04am |
re: #355 Obdicut
Successful restaurant owners are rarer than emeralds.
I'm glad I got out of bartending/waitstaffing. It was fun getting all the raw cash, but the owners, dear god, the owners were insane.
The chef owners were interesting to call on. Many of them lived life large. Married with 6 kids. Generally big men, big laughs and appetites.
360 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:27:47am |
re: #359 prairiefire
The chef owners were interesting to call on. Many of them lived life large. Married with 6 kids. Generally big men, big laughs and appetites.
I tell everyone, you want to eat at a place with a fat guy wearing a dirty Tshirt. If the cooks are skinny, what does that say about the food?
361 | rhino2 Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:33:21am |
re: #240 Gus 802
There are ways to handle the waste, technically. Dealing with local residents, i.e. Americans, is a different matter and it's usually called nimbyism. I also think they should reverse the ban on recycling of nuclear waste. Given that we've become rather adept as a security society the plutonium danger should be far lower than it was 30 years ago. Otherwise, unless they figure out what to do with the waste they might as well hang it up.
wtb thorium reactors amirite?
362 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:35:09am |
re: #354 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would never go over the top. Plus he is also a friend after 13 years. When I started working with him, he had a crappy Ford truck. After I moved on the first time (5 years of working for him), he had a Mercedes and 2 Harleys.
What's he got now? Recessions are killer diller on the Rest. industry.
363 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:36:44am |
Mr. Crist appeared to stumble over the summer when he told a television interviewer he would have voted for President Barack Obama's health-care overhaul. He previously had called for its repeal
This is why Charlie won't win.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
364 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:37:57am |
re: #362 prairiefire
What's he got now? Recessions are killer diller on the Rest. industry.
Well, after his second divorce from the same woman, he has a mid sized Chevy and 1 Harley.
365 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:39:20am |
tons of work today - since i bill by the hour, that is a good thing for my wallet, but bad for posting on lgf. bbl
366 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:39:57am |
re: #365 imp_62
tons of work today - since i bill by the hour, that is a good thing for my wallet, but bad for posting on lgf. bbl
Thanks for the advice!!
367 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:40:43am |
368 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:43:47am |
369 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:45:35am |
re: #364 Cannadian Club Akbar
That's not too bad. I know a guy who knows the family that started Hooters down in FL in the mid 80's. A dad and his sons, IIRC.
370 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:46:11am |
re: #350 Obdicut
Why on earth do you believe that, rather than that federal prosecutors tend not to prosecute unless they have a very solid case?
Your logic is really missing on that one. Or rather, it's backwards.
I disagree. Fed prosecutors use their postions as a stepping stone for other political offices (See: Mary Beth Buchanan et. al). If there was any chance at all of getting a conviction they would have taken it to trial or they would have tossed on every charge they could think of in order to get him to take a plea. In this case they gave him a slap on the wrist. That tells me they didn't have crap other than the entry under false pretenses.
371 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:48:58am |
re: #369 prairiefire
That's not too bad. I know a guy who knows the family that started Hooters down in FL in the mid 80's. A dad and his sons, IIRC.
In Clearwater. I almost went to work for them (management) in 2003. I didn't and not long after I was the primary care giver for my dad for 14 months. I would have had to quit. But, I also know why they don't have to hire waiters. Well done on their part. I also have a jar of Hooter's Wing Sauce in my pantry. Love their wings.
372 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:50:10am |
re: #369 prairiefire
That's not too bad. I know a guy who knows the family that started Hooters down in FL in the mid 80's. A dad and his sons, IIRC.
And actually, I think it was 3 or 4 guys. The sons might have entered the picture later.
373 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:51:32am |
re: #371 Cannadian Club Akbar
The store managers will pay for boob jobs for the new waitresses when they opened in smaller towns, like Augusta GA. That's a little creepy. I lost touch with my friend in the early 90's. He put money towards their expansions back then. They are rolling in it.
374 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:51:54am |
re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar
And actually, I think it was 3 or 4 guys. The sons might have entered the picture later.
6 guys!!
[Link: www.fundinguniverse.com...]
375 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:53:55am |
re: #374 Cannadian Club Akbar
6 guys!!
[Link: www.fundinguniverse.com...]
I think he knew Dennis Johnson.
376 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:57:17am |
The "father and sons" I am thinking of is 5 Guys.
377 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:57:21am |
re: #375 prairiefire
I think he knew Dennis Johnson.
When I applied, I suggested 5 things they should do for their location. They implemented 4. The final one would have needed county gubment approval. (Busy intersection/changing traffic light)
378 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:59:25am |
re: #370 RogueOne
I disagree. Fed prosecutors use their postions as a stepping stone for other political offices (See: Mary Beth Buchanan et. al).
Agreed.
If there was any chance at all of getting a conviction they would have taken it to trial or they would have tossed on every charge they could think of in order to get him to take a plea.
He did take a plea. And this is the part where you're being completely illogical: the 95% conviction rate is contradictory to the idea that if there was any chance of getting a conviction they'd have taken it to trial.
In this case they gave him a slap on the wrist. That tells me they didn't have crap other than the entry under false pretenses.
It tells me that they like having a 95% conviction rate, and don't tend to prosecute cases they're not sure of winning. That he copped a plea, to me, means that he could have been prosecuted for more but instead plead down, because that's what a plea bargain is.
379 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:00:23am |
re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar
"Never build your location at the bottom of a hill, where folks have to turn into a driveway to get to the store."
I remember hearing that one. There are others pertaining to location.
380 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:03:36am |
re: #379 prairiefire
"Never build your location at the bottom of a hill, where folks have to turn into a driveway to get to the store."
I remember hearing that one. There are others pertaining to location.
Mine was looking to get a progressive turn light if heading north on the road it is on. Traffic there is tricky. Store on the west side of a 6 lane road.
381 | prairiefire Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:08:06am |
I think I am hitting the thrift stores on this fine, Fall day. Later, gaters.
382 | Ericus58 Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:08:38am |
New images of North Korea's heir apparent Kim Jong-un
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
(with a short video clip)
"The BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul says the family likeness is clear, and North Koreans, seeing the photo for the first time, are unlikely to miss the significance.
Kim Jong-un is Kim Jong-il's third son and had already been identified as the most likely successor to the Communist dynasty started by his grandfather, Kim Il-sung, in 1948.
Our correspondent says his rise is remarkable, even by the standards of one of the world's most totalitarian states."
I noticed in the photo's and video of this chap one thing is obvious:
He's a mouth-breather.
And chubby.....
And I think he's a mute.....
383 | mikefromArlington Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:10:16am |
Too bad she didn't feel threatened and ended up tasering his dumb ass.
384 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:10:56am |
re: #382 Ericus58
New images of North Korea's heir apparent Kim Jong-un
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
(with a short video clip)"The BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul says the family likeness is clear, and North Koreans, seeing the photo for the first time, are unlikely to miss the significance.
Kim Jong-un is Kim Jong-il's third son and had already been identified as the most likely successor to the Communist dynasty started by his grandfather, Kim Il-sung, in 1948.
Our correspondent says his rise is remarkable, even by the standards of one of the world's most totalitarian states."
I noticed in the photo's and video of this chap one thing is obvious:
He's a mouth-breather.
And chubby...And I think he's a mute...
You are soooo lucky you don't live in North Korea!!!
//
385 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:11:25am |
re: #383 mikefromArlington
Too bad she didn't feel threatened and ended up tasering his dumb ass.
Mace
386 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:12:31am |
Greets and saluts from the soggy NYC metro area. Tornado watches are up for most of the east coast with a tropical system moving up the East Coast from Florida (remnants of TS Nicole). Some areas have seen 21 inches of rain. The NYC metro area is figuring on getting a couple of inches, but central PA through central NY may see 6+ inches. It will definitely end the drought conditions in many parts of the area, but it also means damaging floods may occur along the usual rivers and streams.
387 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:12:46am |
re: #383 mikefromArlington
Too bad she didn't feel threatened and ended up tasering his dumb ass.
Don't taze me bro!!! Heh.
388 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:12:58am |
re: #382 Ericus58
As much as he's a terrifying unknown: can he really be worse than his father?
I really hope I don't regret asking that question.
389 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:14:54am |
390 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:15:50am |
re: #382 Ericus58
New images of North Korea's heir apparent Kim Jong-un
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
(with a short video clip)"The BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul says the family likeness is clear, and North Koreans, seeing the photo for the first time, are unlikely to miss the significance.
Kim Jong-un is Kim Jong-il's third son and had already been identified as the most likely successor to the Communist dynasty started by his grandfather, Kim Il-sung, in 1948.
Our correspondent says his rise is remarkable, even by the standards of one of the world's most totalitarian states."
I noticed in the photo's and video of this chap one thing is obvious:
He's a mouth-breather.
And chubby...
And I think he's a mute...
He looks like Eric Cartman. Heh.
391 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:17:17am |
re: #386 lawhawk
That was supposed to hit South Florida. Just goes to show how unpredictable these storms are. (also see Charlie from 2004)
392 | Ericus58 Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:17:53am |
re: #388 Obdicut
As much as he's a terrifying unknown: can he really be worse than his father?
I really hope I don't regret asking that question.
I think that will depend on the level the Military presses him on matters of the State.
I see them as being the power brokers now.
393 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:18:38am |
re: #386 lawhawk
Greets and saluts from the soggy NYC metro area. Tornado watches are up for most of the east coast with a tropical system moving up the East Coast from Florida (remnants of TS Nicole). Some areas have seen 21 inches of rain. The NYC metro area is figuring on getting a couple of inches, but central PA through central NY may see 6+ inches. It will definitely end the drought conditions in many parts of the area, but it also means damaging floods may occur along the usual rivers and streams.
I have over 4 inches in the rain gauge and it's still pouring down.
394 | lostlakehiker Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:23:08am |
re: #276 Obdicut
O'Keefe committed crimes in making the ACORN tapes, and prosecutors found no wrongdoing by ACORN employees.
So you have 'much love' for a criminal who exposed nothing.
Well, let's take a look at a very similar organization, "Houston Votes". one linke...
and another...
Now our friend Obdicut has an answer to all the evidence. One simple word dismisses it all. "Liar".
But the truth does tend to come out. This is a story of an organized and systematic attack on the integrity of the voting system. The fraction of voter registration papers that held up under examination was less than 50 percent. Fraud was rampant. Go figure.
These organizations are not dedicated to registering only legitimate voters. They are dedicated to registering any name that can be got past the registrar.
395 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:23:46am |
re: #393 NJDhockeyfan
I have to pick up a new gauge, but Teterboro Airport (SE of my house) has reported officially just under 2 inches so far. The further West you go from NYC, the more rain you'll see. The rain will be training across the area all day, so the ground will become saturated and if there's winds (higher along coastal areas) we might see more trees come down.
396 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:24:03am |
Not sure if this has been posted. Paladino threatening a reporter.
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]
397 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:24:55am |
re: #390 NJDhockeyfan
He looks like Eric Cartman. Heh.
Most importantly, he's fat in a nation of starving people.
398 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:26:36am |
re: #394 lostlakehiker
Wow. You're really dedicated to this, aren't you?
These organizations are not dedicated to registering only legitimate voters. They are dedicated to registering any name that can be got past the registrar.
Why are you leaving out the part about ACORN reporting the registrations that were suspicious and aiding the authorities in the prosecutions of them? And that they are bound, by law, to submit all registration cards that are filled out?
Because that ruins the "ACORN was up to something" narrative?
I love that you're trying to prove something about ACORN by referencing a completely different organization.
How do you reckon that works?
399 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:27:02am |
re: #396 Cannadian Club Akbar
Paladino is a piece of work, but there's more at play there. Paladino hasn't taken kindly to the NY Post going and showing that Paladino fathered a daughter out of wedlock with another woman and then was trying to take photos of her. Dicker is a frequent op-ed/reporter for the Post.
Not a coincidence that Dicker bore the brunt of Paladino's ire. Paladino was also busy muddying the waters by claiming that Cuomo had cheated on his wife (Kerry Kennedy) without any substantiation.
400 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:27:26am |
re: #395 lawhawk
I have to pick up a new gauge, but Teterboro Airport (SE of my house) has reported officially just under 2 inches so far. The further West you go from NYC, the more rain you'll see. The rain will be training across the area all day, so the ground will become saturated and if there's winds (higher along coastal areas) we might see more trees come down.
I think I might be clear of the heavy wind. It's forecasted to go through Virginia along the coast last I saw. We certainly need this rain. Good luck with this storm. You may get that wind and see those trees down.
401 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:28:07am |
re: #397 EmmmieG
Most importantly, he's fat in a nation of starving people.
I bet he never ate tree bark.
402 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:28:54am |
re: #401 NJDhockeyfan
I bet he never ate tree bark.
Or boiled his shoes. Or ate grass.
In fact, I'll bet his food was always specially flown in.
I hate dictatorships.
403 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:30:42am |
re: #373 prairiefire
The store managers will pay for boob jobs for the new waitresses when they opened in smaller towns, like Augusta GA. That's a little creepy.....
I offered to do the same thing for my employees but the guys decided against them.
404 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:31:53am |
re: #394 lostlakehiker
These links aren't about ACORN. Someone saying that "this organization is kinda like ACORN" isn't sufficient to make them one and the same. Or maybe it is for you, I don't know.
Plus, what Obdicut said above re. the law obligating ACORN to submit all filled out forms, and the fact that they specifically highlight the suspicious ones, to flag them to the authorities.
People's terror of ACORN is bizarre.
405 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:32:12am |
re: #378 Obdicut
The plea was to the charge of illegal entry. That was all they had on him. A minor slap on the wrist. My contention is there isn't any evidence that anyone was trying to wiretap a federal office.
406 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:32:38am |
ObamaCare is already affecting business who cover their employees.
McDonald's May Drop Health Plan
McDonald's Corp. has warned federal regulators that it could drop its health insurance plan for nearly 30,000 hourly restaurant workers unless regulators waive a new requirement of the U.S. health overhaul.The move is one of the clearest indications that new rules may disrupt workers' health plans as the law ripples through the real world.
Trade groups representing restaurants and retailers say low-wage employers might halt their coverage if the government doesn't loosen a requirement for "mini-med" plans, which offer limited benefits to some 1.4 million Americans.
Now that's some CHANGE you can believe in!
407 | Ojoe Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:32:40am |
A moody morning light upon the San Gabriel Mountains of California. The Towercam.
This one is sort of unusual.
It will change soon of course.
Probably.
408 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:32:41am |
re: #402 EmmmieG
Or boiled his shoes. Or ate grass.
In fact, I'll bet his food was always specially flown in.
I hate dictatorships.
I wonder who LilKim will leave his porn collection to after he kicks.
409 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:34:00am |
re: #408 Cannadian Club Akbar
I wonder who LilKim will leave his porn collection to after he kicks.
I really don't want to know what he has, or what he has seen in person.
I would hazard a guess that what we found out about in Iraq is nothing compared to what has happened in NK.
410 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:34:00am |
re: #402 EmmmieG
It's not just a dictatorship, but a hereditary dictatorship.
They're nothing but a bunch of thugs who want to retain personal power, even as the nation goes to hell all around them. And while I can't quite tell how tall most of the people in that photo are, but L'il Kim isn't called that because he's tall. He's supposed 5'3". Most of the country is unusually short because of chronic and persistent malnutrition due to the country's inability to feed itself.
It relies heavily on international aid to get food into the country (and the North Korean regime makes sure to hide the foreign assistance).
A book I recently read sheds quite a bit of light on the regime and the struggle to just survive. It's called Nothing to Envy.
411 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:35:24am |
re: #408 Cannadian Club Akbar
I wonder who LilKim will leave his porn collection to after he kicks.
According to some reports, he is going to auction them off on Ebay.
412 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:35:25am |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
All LIES! We were promised that everyone who had insurance they liked they would be able to keep and that the HCR was going to lower costs for everyone. No way our president would put out a bold face lie like that. That's like saying 95% of the public didn't get a tax cut when we all know we did.
413 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:35:28am |
re: #405 RogueOne
The plea was to the charge of illegal entry.
Do you understand that people plea to lesser charges to avoid prosecution on larger charges?
My contention is there isn't any evidence that anyone was trying to wiretap a federal office.
I don't know what there was or wasn't evidence for, and neither do you. But a plea bargain almost always means avoiding a larger charge, by pleading to a lesser one. That's how it works.
Do you get how the 95% conviction rate works against your contention that if they had any chance of conviction on another charge they'd have taken him to trial?
414 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:35:55am |
I just read Red Scarf Girl (which is toned way down because it's aimed at Middle Schoolers.)
In the back, she talks about how they felt during this time, and it was interesting how complete the cult of personality was.
I was thinking about this in light of NK.
415 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:37:21am |
When we finally get the Breaking: L'il Kim has died thread, will there be a 24 hour rule not to ridicule?
417 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:38:13am |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
ObamaCare is already affecting business who cover their employees.
McDonald's May Drop Health Plan
Now that's some CHANGE you can believe in!
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
While many restaurants don't offer health coverage, McDonald's provides mini-med plans for workers at 10,500 U.S. locations, most of them franchised. A single worker can pay $14 a week for a plan that caps annual benefits at $2,000, or about $32 a week to get coverage up to $10,000 a year.
Last week, a senior McDonald's official informed the Department of Health and Human Services that the restaurant chain's insurer won't meet a 2011 requirement to spend at least 80% to 85% of its premium revenue on medical care.
McDonald's and trade groups say the percentage, called a medical loss ratio, is unrealistic for mini-med plans because of high administrative costs owing to frequent worker turnover, combined with relatively low spending on claims.
Democrats who drafted the health law wanted the requirement to prevent insurers from spending too much on executive salaries, marketing and other costs that they said don't directly help patients.
interesting... the problem of course, is "Obamacare", and not the shitty working conditions of McDonalds and their measly benefits program that the workers pay for and never get a chance to use.
418 | Interesting Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:38:26am |
re: #410 lawhawk
How much longer do you think they can go on before they completely collapse, and would China seriously allow them to start a war? I can't imagine they want to deal with millions of starving North Korean refugees...
419 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:38:28am |
re: #413 Obdicut
They plead to the one charge they could get him on. There wasn't any evidence of a wire tapping attempt. Why is the wiretapping accusation so important to you when there isn't any evidence to support it? Isn't it enough that his attempted "sting" was a failure?
420 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:38:46am |
re: #415 Cannadian Club Akbar
When we finally get the Breaking: L'il Kim has died thread, will there be a 24 hour rule not to ridicule?
There's a limit to the amount of human misery you can cause without invalidating the 24-hour rule.
421 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:39:32am |
re: #412 RogueOne
All LIES! We were promised that everyone who had insurance they liked they would be able to keep and that the HCR was going to lower costs for everyone. No way our president would put out a bold face lie like that. That's like saying 95% of the public didn't get a tax cut when we all know we did.
Hilarious. The article is an admission by the insurance industry that it is grossly inefficient, and can't manage to cut administrative costs to be under 20% of premiums. In the UK, the administrative overhead of the NHS is roughly 5% if I remember correctly.
But obviously the solution is not to let government manage healthcare, because health insurance companies are so much better at doing it, by the magic of the free market.
422 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:39:55am |
re: #413 Obdicut
Do you understand that people plea to lesser charges to avoid prosecution on larger charges?
I don't know what there was or wasn't evidence for, and neither do you. But a plea bargain almost always means avoiding a larger charge, by pleading to a lesser one. That's how it works.
Do you get how the 95% conviction rate works against your contention that if they had any chance of conviction on another charge they'd have taken him to trial?
Here is how the conversation probably went: Prosecutors showed Defendants that the case on a number of charges was pretty airtight. Offered to drop the less certain charges in return for a plea. Why? No desire by the prosecutors to waste time and resources giving this spotlight hogging dufus free publicity. Defendant accepts plea offer. Why? Decided that the free publicity was not worth the "downdings" to what is left of his reputation to be viewed as a college fraternity level sexual deviant/prankster.
423 | simoom Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:40:23am |
re: #396 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not sure if this has been posted. Paladino threatening a reporter.
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]
I like how the press flack tries to diffuse the situation before Paladino erupts: "Listen Carl... go to the bathroom. Go to your bathroom Carl. Go to your bathroom." And then to the reporter, maybe as a dig, "Men go in that bathroom!" And back to Carl again, more firmly, "Go to the bathroom!"
[Link: www.cbs6albany.com...]
424 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:40:57am |
re: #415 Cannadian Club Akbar
When we finally get the Breaking: L'il Kim has died thread, will there be a 24 hour rule not to ridicule?
Why wait till he dies? Let's start now!
425 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:41:01am |
re: #419 RogueOne
They plead to the one charge they could get him on.
No. He pled to it. Not them.
There wasn't any evidence of a wire tapping attempt.
I have no idea what there was evidence for.
Why is the wiretapping accusation so important to you when there isn't any evidence to support it?
I haven't actually said that I think the wiretapping accusation is true, credible, or important. Only that when someone enters into a plea bargain, it is almost always so that a larger charge will be dropped. I don't know what that larger charge was, in this case. And neither do you.
426 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:41:49am |
re: #421 iossarian
Hilarious. The article is an admission by the insurance industry that it is grossly inefficient, and can't manage to cut administrative costs to be under 20% of premiums. In the UK, the administrative overhead of the NHS is roughly 5% if I remember correctly.
But obviously the solution is not to let government manage healthcare, because health insurance companies are so much better at doing it, by the magic of the free market.
invisibul hand of da markit iz invisibul.
427 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:41:50am |
re: #423 simoom
I like how the press flack tries to diffuse the situation before Paladino erupts: "Listen Carl... go to the bathroom. Go to your bathroom Carl. Go to your bathroom." And then to the reporter, maybe as a dig, "Men go in that bathroom!" And back to Carl again, more firmly, "Go to the bathroom!"
[Link: www.cbs6albany.com...]
Thanks. I was too lazy to look for the link after reading about this online. Paladino apparently can be clearly heard saying something to the effect of: "if you send your goon over to my daughter's house one more time, I swear I will take you out". Nice.
428 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:41:59am |
re: #421 iossarian
Some day, someone will be able to tell me some innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit that having private, rather than public, health insurance has brought us.
429 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:42:19am |
re: #415 Cannadian Club Akbar
When we finally get the Breaking: L'il Kim has died thread, will there be a 24 hour rule not to ridicule?
The hard part will be knowing that nothing will change for the NK people. Nothing. Meet the new king, same as the old king. Be grateful for your 1/2 cup of gruel.
430 | harlequinade Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:43:35am |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
Isn't that more of a reason to not eat at McDonalds - because they're screwing their workforce?
431 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:43:38am |
re: #428 Obdicut
Some day, someone will be able to tell me some innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit that having private, rather than public, health insurance has brought us.
Come on, there's pre-existing conditions and lifetime coverage limits, right off the bat! And I haven't even had my coffee yet!
432 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:44:06am |
re: #428 Obdicut
Some day, someone will be able to tell me some innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit that having private, rather than public, health insurance has brought us.
What innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit having public, rather than private, health insurance has brought us.?
433 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:44:23am |
re: #429 EmmmieG
The hard part will be knowing that nothing will change for the NK people. Nothing. Meet the new king, same as the old king. Be grateful for your 1/2 cup of gruel.
Nork gruel:
1/2 cup tree bark, minced
1/4 cup water, from stream
Heat over fire until thick.
434 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:45:00am |
re: #421 iossarian
Hilarious. The article is an admission by the insurance industry that it is grossly inefficient, and can't manage to cut administrative costs to be under 20% of premiums. In the UK, the administrative overhead of the NHS is roughly 5% if I remember correctly.
But obviously the solution is not to let government manage healthcare, because health insurance companies are so much better at doing it, by the magic of the free market.
The NHS has so many known and obvious problems dispensing appropriate healthcare to subscribers that it makes an extraordinary poor model on which to base a conversation.
435 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:45:25am |
re: #430 harlequinade
Isn't that more of a reason to not eat at McDonalds - because they're screwing their workforce?
No. The food is a good enough reason.
436 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:45:45am |
re: #430 harlequinade
Isn't that more of a reason to not eat at McDonalds - because they're screwing their workforce?
Everyone is entitled to eat wherever they want. I don't eat at McDs very often but I do love Big Macs.
437 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:45:55am |
re: #432 Walter L. Newton
What innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit having public, rather than private, health insurance has brought us.?
See my #431 above. Public healthcare means no pre-existing conditions and no lifetime coverage limits. Those are two pretty big benefits.
Also, when you're out of a job, you can still see a doctor. Just like that.
Does that answer your question?
438 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:46:12am |
re: #433 Cannadian Club Akbar
Nork gruel:
1/2 cup tree bark, minced
1/4 cup water, from streamHeat over fire until thick.
And be grateful that the royal family didn't cut down the tree to heat their palace!
(Don't forget to show up for your dance practice for your big festival'o'kim this Friday. Try not to faint from hunger.)
439 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:46:31am |
re: #434 imp_62
The NHS has so many known and obvious problems dispensing appropriate healthcare to subscribers that it makes an extraordinary poor model on which to base a conversation.
Links or it didn't happen. I have many years of first-hand experience of the NHS, including surgery. It's fine.
440 | simoom Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:46:47am |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
ObamaCare is already affecting business who cover their employees.
McDonald's May Drop Health Plan
Now that's some CHANGE you can believe in!
From ABC's coverage of the story: [Link: abcnews.go.com...]
"Media reports stating that we plan to drop health care coverage for our employees are completely false," said Steve Russell, a senior vice president and head of human resources for McDonald's
441 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:47:38am |
As an aside, the NHS doesn't have "subscribers". It just has people. That's kind of the point of a national health service.
442 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:47:50am |
re: #437 iossarian
You can still see a doctor in the US. You just have to pay for it yourself.
443 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:48:46am |
re: #432 Walter L. Newton
What innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit having public, rather than private, health insurance has brought us.?
I'm not really sure you get the point of my statement, Walter.
The benefit of a private market solution to a problem is that the profit motive encourages innovation, efficiency, and competitiveness; these provide the general benefit to the public that the quality of products and services increase.
However, this is only true in non-broken markets; in health insurance, where efficiency is actually detrimental to the profitability of a company, where the ideal consumers are ones who never make use of the product, and where there are incentives to give worse, rather than better service, this does not hold true. Anyone who gets chronically ill is a customer that the health insurance companies want to avoid, anyone who is critically ill, likewise. There are a large category of consumers who could never be served by a natural health insurance market-- it is broken.
Public-provided services can, indeed, develop efficiencies and innovations, but their main purpose is specifically to not be profit-motive driven, to serve those areas, like health insurance, where the market is naturally broken. This does not mean that it will come up with efficiencies and innovations, but rather that the profit motive will not drive it, as it does the private health insurance industry, to seek profit at the expense of the consumers.
Does this help you understand what I was saying?
444 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:48:54am |
re: #440 simoom
From ABC's coverage of the story: [Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Thanks for the update. I really hope the reports of some companies dropping their health care covereage doesn't come true.
445 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:48:57am |
re: #394 lostlakehiker
Well, let's take a look at a very similar organization, "Houston Votes". one linke...
and another...
Now our friend Obdicut has an answer to all the evidence. One simple word dismisses it all. "Liar".But the truth does tend to come out. This is a story of an organized and systematic attack on the integrity of the voting system. The fraction of voter registration papers that held up under examination was less than 50 percent. Fraud was rampant. Go figure.
These organizations are not dedicated to registering only legitimate voters. They are dedicated to registering any name that can be got past the registrar.
Isn't it like illegal not to register a voter whose name your given?
I mean what if there is some pour soul out there actually named "Mickey Mouse" yes its unlikely that someone with that name will show up to vote, but it only becomes voter fraud and an actual electoral problem if someone shows up to vote and has a fake id set up for that particular name.
446 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:49:22am |
re: #439 iossarian
Links or it didn't happen. I have many years of first-hand experience of the NHS, including surgery. It's fine.
[Link: www.google.co.uk...]
Knock yourself out. Actually, don't - I would hate to hear you ended up waiting 3 years for treatment, only to have to pay to go to Holland to see a specialist. I also have experienced the tender ministrations of the NHS and finally had to spring for private insurance to make sure my kids got the appropriate specialist care. And don't get me started on dental coverage.
447 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:49:25am |
re: #421 iossarian
Hilarious. The article is an admission by the insurance industry that it is grossly inefficient, and can't manage to cut administrative costs to be under 20% of premiums. In the UK, the administrative overhead of the NHS is roughly 5% if I remember correctly.
But obviously the solution is not to let government manage healthcare, because health insurance companies are so much better at doing it, by the magic of the free market.
Yesterday the president said HCR wouldn't turn our system into a duplicate of the british disaster. Are you suggesting that maybe he should be out there touting the effectiveness of the british system and try to make ours work the same?
The fact of the matter is we were sold a bill that was going to lower costs and it didn't happen. Not only did it not happen anyone with any sense KNEW it wasn't going to happen. You cannot add millions of people and regulations and lower costs, it was never possible.
448 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:50:27am |
re: #447 RogueOne
The fact of the matter is we were sold a bill that was going to lower costs and it didn't happen.
Can you prove this, please?
You cannot add millions of people and regulations and lower costs, it was never possible.
How were millions of people added? The same number of people are in the US.
449 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:50:59am |
re: #443 Obdicut
I'm not really sure you get the point of my statement, Walter.
The benefit of a private market solution to a problem is that the profit motive encourages innovation, efficiency, and competitiveness; these provide the general benefit to the public that the quality of products and services increase.
However, this is only true in non-broken markets; in health insurance, where efficiency is actually detrimental to the profitability of a company, where the ideal consumers are ones who never make use of the product, and where there are incentives to give worse, rather than better service, this does not hold true. Anyone who gets chronically ill is a customer that the health insurance companies want to avoid, anyone who is critically ill, likewise. There are a large category of consumers who could never be served by a natural health insurance market-- it is broken.
Public-provided services can, indeed, develop efficiencies and innovations, but their main purpose is specifically to not be profit-motive driven, to serve those areas, like health insurance, where the market is naturally broken. This does not mean that it will come up with efficiencies and innovations, but rather that the profit motive will not drive it, as it does the private health insurance industry, to seek profit at the expense of the consumers.
Does this help you understand what I was saying?
Yes.
450 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:51:25am |
re: #448 Obdicut
Can you prove this, please?
How were millions of people added? The same number of people are in the US.
But the insurance companies didn't have to add people to their coverage pools without extra cost.
Which they can't do, it's mathematically impossible, so the there will be extra costs.
451 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:51:53am |
I wonder how many jobs will be created or saved?
New Yorkers outraged as bureaucrats order city to change lettering on every single street sign
The city will change the lettering on every single street sign - at an estimated cost of about $27.5 million - because the feds don't like the font.
Street names will change from all capital letters to a combination of upper and lower case on roads across the country thanks to the pricey federal regulation, officials said Wednesday.
By 2018, MADISON AVE. will become Madison Ave. and will be printed in a font called Clearview, the city Department of Transportation says.
The Federal Highway Administration says the switch will improve safety because drivers identify the words more quickly when they're displayed that way - and can sooner return their eyes to the road.
Still, several city residents were OUTRAGED.
"That's ridiculous," said James Sullivan, 34, a bike messenger from Queens. "They might as well just burn the damn money."
Construction worker Joseph Cain, 49, of Manhattan, reacted with sarcasm, saying, "I see my tax dollars are hard at work."
452 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:52:22am |
re: #428 Obdicut
Some day, someone will be able to tell me some innovation, efficiency, discovery, or benefit that having private, rather than public, health insurance has brought us.
//There aren't a bunch of poor people taking up rooms at hospitals they don't have enough money pay for out of pocket to keep those of us who god chose to favor with monetary assets from getting single occupancy rooms.
453 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:52:57am |
Thomas Sowell on HCR.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]
454 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:53:06am |
re: #447 RogueOne
Yesterday the president said HCR wouldn't turn our system into a duplicate of the british disaster. Are you suggesting that maybe he should be out there touting the effectiveness of the british system and try to make ours work the same?
The fact of the matter is we were sold a bill that was going to lower costs and it didn't happen. Not only did it not happen anyone with any sense KNEW it wasn't going to happen. You cannot add millions of people and regulations and lower costs, it was never possible.
How is the British system a "disaster" when last I checked on average they pay less and have a longer lifespan than we do?
455 | Interesting Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:53:18am |
re: #437 iossarian
See my #431 above. Public healthcare means no pre-existing conditions and no lifetime coverage limits. Those are two pretty big benefits.
See also what I wrote here - I shudder to think of the bills she'd have faced had she been an uninsured American (and I doubt she'd have been able to get insurance at any price, given her pre-existing condition)
456 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:53:50am |
re: #450 EmmmieG
But the insurance companies didn't have to add people to their coverage pools without extra cost.
Which they can't do, it's mathematically impossible, so the there will be extra costs.
Extra costs for whom, though?
There are the same number of people in the US. There are the same number of people needing health insurance, and health care. Nothing has changed about that-- nobody has been added or subtracted. What has been chanced is the financing of the way health care is provided.
457 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:54:08am |
re: #446 imp_62
I also have experienced the tender ministrations of the NHS and finally had to spring for private insurance to make sure my kids got the appropriate specialist care. And don't get me started on dental coverage.
So what you're saying is: as someone who can afford private healthcare (and not just junk insurance, but something that actually provides benefits), you are better off under the US system. Good for you. Shame for the people who aren't as well-off as you.
458 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:54:46am |
re: #422 imp_62
They gave him the lightest charge they could. That doesn't support the meme that they had an airtight case on any charge. The plea agreement reads:
In this case, further investigation did not uncover evidence that the defendants intended to commit any felony after the entry by false pretenses despite their initial statements to the staff of the Senatorial offices and GSA requesting access to the central phone system.
I'll ask again, against all evidence including the words of the prosecutor, why is it so important that the meme "O'keefe tried to wiretap!" live on?
459 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:54:54am |
re: #457 iossarian
So what you're saying is: as someone who can afford private healthcare (and not just junk insurance, but something that actually provides benefits), you are better off under the US system. Good for you. Shame for the people who aren't as well-off as you.
I am not well off right now at all. I don't have health insurance. I don't want Obamacare. Period.
460 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:55:34am |
I'll believe public health care is terrific when Canadian politicians stop heading down here for their health care.
Sorry, but nothing speaks as loud as actions.
461 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:55:44am |
re: #418 publicityStunted
China will do what it can to prevent a total collapse, including propping up the regime and/or shifting the exodus from China towards South Korea. China doesn't want to be overrun with millions of starving North Koreans, and would much rather them be someone else's problem.
462 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:55:55am |
For the record: I have no intention of getting involved in a discussion about HCR today - lesson learned yesterday. My strong personal belief is that HCR failed to go the full distance by voiding provisions for the so-called dual mandate: insurers must provide insurance, and consumers must buy insurance. Rates subject to government review, healthcare providers should be non-profits (which does not mean employees should not earn fair wages) and profit margins should be subject to utility-like regulation. Healthcare is a vital service, and should be subject to some form of guarantees regarding universal access and minimum quality. In some countries it works pretty well: Germany, Switzerland -- in others, it is a work in progress: UK, France
463 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:56:31am |
re: #459 Walter L. Newton
I am not well off right now at all. I don't have health insurance. I don't want Obamacare. Period.
You might want to consider getting health insurance instead of taking a trip to France.
As awesome as France is, lacking health insurance can absolutely devastate you economically, and devastate anyone who cares about you.
464 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:13am |
re: #459 Walter L. Newton
I am not well off right now at all. I don't have health insurance. I don't want Obamacare. Period.
I just love paying the higher insurance premiums that I get charged because people without health insurance delay treatment and then incur high costs for advanced problems, which they subsequently cannot afford to pay back!
465 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:17am |
re: #463 Obdicut
You might want to consider getting health insurance instead of taking a trip to France.
As awesome as France is, lacking health insurance can absolutely devastate you economically, and devastate anyone who cares about you.
Now your telling me what to do? Fuck off.
466 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:21am |
re: #462 imp_62
That is completely reasonable, and well-expressed.
I think HCR failed to go the distance as well.
467 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:36am |
re: #448 Obdicut
Can you prove this, please?
How were millions of people added? The same number of people are in the US.
Well, I did say anyone with any sense saw this coming.../ If I have to explain why adding increased costs to the system wouldn't lower costs for the end users...... You want to believe the president was being honest, that he's different than other politicians and I'm here to tell you that isn't the case.
BTW, there is no tooth fairy either. Sorry.
468 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:49am |
re: #456 Obdicut
Extra costs for whom, though?
There are the same number of people in the US. There are the same number of people needing health insurance, and health care. Nothing has changed about that-- nobody has been added or subtracted. What has been chanced is the financing of the way health care is provided.
Then why did Oregon health care companies just drop child-only policies? If nothing changed, why did they suddenly announce no new subscribers.
469 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:57:49am |
re: #460 EmmmieG
I'll believe public health care is terrific when Canadian politicians stop heading down here for their health care.
Sorry, but nothing speaks as loud as actions.
All that says is that our health care for the top 1% is better than their helathcare for the top 1%
Shame most of us aren't in that top 1% and thus should probably care more about how our helathcare for the those in the middle 50% stacks up against theirs in the middle 50%
But who could we possibly use as a measuring stick for "middle America" who... who... who....
"We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,"
---Sarah Palin
470 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:58:17am |
re: #457 iossarian
So what you're saying is: as someone who can afford private healthcare (and not just junk insurance, but something that actually provides benefits), you are better off under the US system. Good for you. Shame for the people who aren't as well-off as you.
I said that? Where? Please read my post on the issue of healthcare in this thread BEFORE misrepresenting my position.
471 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:58:45am |
re: #465 Walter L. Newton
Now your telling me what to do? Fuck off.
No. I said you might want to consider it, Walter. That's very different from telling you what to do. It's certainly your right to spend your money however you wish; but do consider that if you do fall ill without health insurance, it can force you into grave debt, and-- worse for pride than pocketbook-- to default on debts to hospitals and doctors, which raises the cost of health insurance and costs taxpayer money.
472 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:59:14am |
I choose the Republican HC plan. I don't get sick.:)
473 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 8:59:21am |
re: #471 Obdicut
No. I said you might want to consider it, Walter. That's very different from telling you what to do. It's certainly your right to spend your money however you wish; but do consider that if you do fall ill without health insurance, it can force you into grave debt, and-- worse for pride than pocketbook-- to default on debts to hospitals and doctors, which raises the cost of health insurance and costs taxpayer money.
Then stay out of my fucking business... period.
474 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:00:20am |
re: #466 Obdicut
That is completely reasonable, and well-expressed.
I think HCR failed to go the distance as well.
We agree on something?? This has to be a trap lol
475 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:00:36am |
re: #468 EmmmieG
Then why did Oregon health care companies just drop child-only policies? If nothing changed, why did they suddenly announce no new subscribers.
Why did they raise their rates for two decades?
I didn't say nothing changed. I said no new people were added.
The end goal is for every person in the US who needs health care to receive health care, and for that to happen in the most efficient possible way.
I feel that private health insurance is a barrier to this occurring, since they are a parasitic industry that provide nothing of benefit that public insurance doesn't.
476 | RogueOne Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:00:41am |
I've had my fun pestering Obdi for awhile. Back to work everybody!
477 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:01:05am |
re: #470 imp_62
I said that? Where? Please read my post on the issue of healthcare in this thread BEFORE misrepresenting my position.
Sorry if I misunderstood what I thought was your complaint about the NHS not providing good service. My point was that, if you can afford private healthcare, then obviously you can get better care. On the other hand, if you can't afford it, you're much better off in the UK than in the US.
478 | lawhawk Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:01:11am |
re: #456 Obdicut
There are a couple of things happening.
One - the pool of people being told to get insurance increases the overall pool. Theoretically, that should result in a reduction in premiums as the cost of insurance will be spread over a larger number of people. However, those mandates aren't occurring until 2014. For those who didn't have insurance, they're now going to have it - and have to pay for it or else face penalties.
Two - government mandates increased coverages for certain classes - preexisting conditions, insurance through age 26, additional conditions, etc. That has the effect of increasing the cost of insurance.
The two aren't going to cancel each other out, and the Administration has already backed off the bending the cost-curve argument. What we are already seeing is that insurers are moving to increase premiums for the new policies for the 2011 year. Those are costs being passed on to the end user right off the bat.
479 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:01:26am |
re: #469 jamesfirecat
All that says is that our health care for the top 1% is better than their helathcare for the top 1%
Shame most of us aren't in that top 1% and thus should probably care more about how our helathcare for the those in the middle 50% stacks up against theirs in the middle 50%
But who could we possibly use as a measuring stick for "middle America" who... who... who...
"We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,"
---Sarah Palin
I'll have to go back and look, but are you saying that ordinary Americans wouldn't have had access to the surgeries in question?
480 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:01:44am |
Radio (no link)
AP reports Rahm will step down tomorrow.
481 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:02:15am |
482 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:02:44am |
re: #458 RogueOne
They gave him the lightest charge they could. That doesn't support the meme that they had an airtight case on any charge. The plea agreement reads:
I'll ask again, against all evidence including the words of the prosecutor, why is it so important that the meme "O'keefe tried to wiretap!" live on?
I never dealt with this issue in my comments here. I was simply sorting through the scenarios in which pleas are negotiated. The less time I spend thinking the word "O'Keefe", the happier I am.
483 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:03:05am |
re: #473 Walter L. Newton
Then stay out of my fucking business... period.
The point is that it isn't just your business alone; if you, without health insurance, are involved in a car accident and rushed to the hospital, unconscious, and have millions of dollars of life saving work provided for you-- which I would definitely want done for you-- and are unable to pay for it, then that debt will be spread out amongst those people who do pay for health insurance, and amongst the tax payers who pay for subsidies for hospitals, doctor training, etc.
That's leaving out that it's in my best interest for you to get regular checkups to avoid spreading contagious diseases, etc.
No man is an island, and there are few places that's truer than healthcare.
484 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:03:50am |
re: #477 iossarian
Sorry if I misunderstood what I thought was your complaint about the NHS not providing good service. My point was that, if you can afford private healthcare, then obviously you can get better care. On the other hand, if you can't afford it, you're much better off in the UK than in the US.
As with all discussions about policy, this one would be better held over beers down the pub -
485 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:03:56am |
re: #474 imp_62
We agree on something?? This has to be a trap lol
Why? I think HCR is a threadbare improvement. But it is still an improvement, and I hope that by breaking through the ice it will lead the way to greater improvements in the future.
486 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:04:26am |
re: #480 Walter L. Newton
Radio (no link)
AP reports Rahm will step down tomorrow.
How many WH staffers have left now?
487 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:04:38am |
re: #479 EmmmieG
I'll have to go back and look, but are you saying that ordinary Americans wouldn't have had access to the surgeries in question?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
American Healthcare by and large is like a Rolls Royce or similar, it's fantastic but dear sweet lord is it expensive.
Canada on the other hands seems be a more workman like Pickup truck which any joe sixpack can afford and for the most part gets the job done.
Of course last time I checked you can also buy more expensive additional types of healthcare in Canada beyond the regular governmental one in case you do have extra money even if it's like a Benz to the American Rolls Royce if we assume the Rolls Royce is like 5% better than the Benz....
488 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:05:36am |
re: #483 Obdicut
Bad analogy Obdi. That is why you have car insurance.
489 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:05:39am |
re: #484 imp_62
As with all discussions about policy, this one would be better held over beers down the pub -
Indeed. Few problems that beers can't solve.
490 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:06:23am |
re: #488 Cannadian Club Akbar
Bad analogy Obdi. That is why you have car insurance.
It's against the law to drive without insurance!
491 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:06:48am |
492 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:06:58am |
re: #488 Cannadian Club Akbar
Bad analogy Obdi. That is why you have car insurance.
But Walter being mauled by a bear. There's one fer ya!!
/kidding Walter!!
493 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:07:13am |
re: #488 Cannadian Club Akbar
Bad analogy Obdi. That is why you have car insurance.
I didn't make an analogy, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Oh, you mean in a car accident as the prompter of the need for health care.
Okay, change it to a simple slip and fall. Poor friend of mine just cracked his skull getting the paper the other day.
494 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:07:22am |
495 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:08:00am |
re: #487 jamesfirecat
That's exactly what I'm saying.
American Healthcare by and large is like a Rolls Royce or similar, it's fantastic but dear sweet lord is it expensive.
Canada on the other hands seems be a more workman like Pickup truck which any joe sixpack can afford and for the most part gets the job done.
Of course last time I checked you can also buy more expensive additional types of healthcare in Canada beyond the regular governmental one in case you do have extra money even if it's like a Benz to the American Rolls Royce if we assume the Rolls Royce is like 5% better than the Benz...
Um, health care is probably just as expensive in Canada, they just pay for it with taxes.
Government health care doesn't become inexpensive, it's just paid for with taxes, and the longer wait times are how they keep the cost down.
496 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:08:43am |
re: #490 iossarian
It's against the law to drive without insurance!
Not everywhere. In Virginia you can drive without insurance if you pay the state $450. Unless they changed it it's still an option. I assume other states have similar laws.
497 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:08:48am |
re: #495 EmmmieG
Um, health care is probably just as expensive in Canada, they just pay for it with taxes.
Government health care doesn't become inexpensive, it's just paid for with taxes, and the longer wait times are how they keep the cost down.
Actually, government healthcare is cheaper because your administrative overhead goes from 25%-33% of total cost (US estimates) to 5% (NHS).
498 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:01am |
re: #453 Cannadian Club Akbar
Thomas Sowell on HCR.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]
"government has taken control of medical care"
Lie #1. There's probably more, but I stopped reading after that...
insurance =/= care
499 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:06am |
500 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:15am |
re: #490 iossarian
It's against the law to drive without insurance!
But not illegal to go for a walk without it.
501 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:44am |
re: #483 Obdicut
The point is that it isn't just your business alone; if you, without health insurance, are involved in a car accident and rushed to the hospital, unconscious, and have millions of dollars of life saving work provided for you-- which I would definitely want done for you-- and are unable to pay for it, then that debt will be spread out amongst those people who do pay for health insurance, and amongst the tax payers who pay for subsidies for hospitals, doctor training, etc.
That's leaving out that it's in my best interest for you to get regular checkups to avoid spreading contagious diseases, etc.
No man is an island, and there are few places that's truer than healthcare.
And smart ass, how do you know what I get done medically or not? If you have this progressive need to delve into MY business, then here's the rundown. I have paid for all my check ups and standard maintenance procedures since I was laid off from the DOE, and that includes all the little recommended items that go along with a person my age.
And no man is my keeper. I take care of what needs to be taken care of, and I don't cost anyone. And if you have paid attention to my comments over the years (months, whatever), you know I am a big proponent of self sufficiency. If I have to live out of the trunk of my car I will, before asking the public for anything.
You don't know me, stop trying to judge my character and how I exist. Heal yourself.
502 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:47am |
re: #496 NJDhockeyfan
Not everywhere. In Virginia you can drive without insurance if you pay the state $450. Unless they changed it it's still an option. I assume other states have similar laws.
Insurance by another name. Why do they need the $450?
503 | Interesting Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:09:54am |
re: #460 EmmmieG
I'll believe public health care is terrific when Canadian politicians stop heading down here for their health care.
I take it you're referring to this guy:
Danny Williams’ decision to seek out heart surgery in the United States may seem like an embarrassing blow to Canadian health care, but cardiac specialists say the Newfoundland Premier could have obtained virtually any heart treatment in his own country, carried out by top-notch doctors.
“Virtually all forms of cardiac surgery are looked after in Canada, and I would say extremely well,” said Dr. Chris Feindel, a cardiac surgeon at Toronto’s University Health Network. “Personally ... I would have my cardiac surgery done in Canada, no matter what resources I had at my disposal.”
In fact, he said, patients from the United States and other countries come to the UHN’s Peter Munk Cardiac Centre for valve repairs, a procedure developed by Toronto surgeons. Meanwhile, the death rate after bypass surgery in Ontario is among the lowest in North America, reports the province’s Cardiac Care Network.
See also what I wrote here if you believe Canada is some kind of health care backwater.
504 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:10:23am |
re: #493 Obdicut
I didn't make an analogy, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Oh, you mean in a car accident as the prompter of the need for health care.
Okay, change it to a simple slip and fall. Poor friend of mine just cracked his skull getting the paper the other day.
Was it the WSJ? Cause, THAT would be irony!
505 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:10:34am |
re: #495 EmmmieG
Um, health care is probably just as expensive in Canada, they just pay for it with taxes.
Government health care doesn't become inexpensive, it's just paid for with taxes, and the longer wait times are how they keep the cost down.
BREAKING!!
In the United States, people never wait for medical treatment.
506 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:10:44am |
re: #495 EmmmieG
There are shorter wait times in most UHC systems then there are in the US, even comparing the US insured population to the general population in UHC countries. Canada has a problem with wait times, but it is not a universal problem in countries with Universal Health Care.
[Link: www.fcpp.org...]
507 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:10:51am |
re: #502 iossarian
Insurance by another name. Why do they need the $450?
Because the state wants money whether you purchase insurance or not.
508 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:11:36am |
re: #495 EmmmieG
Um, health care is probably just as expensive in Canada, they just pay for it with taxes.
Government health care doesn't become inexpensive, it's just paid for with taxes, and the longer wait times are how they keep the cost down.
Hasn't their been studies done that show people in Canada pay less on average for Healthcare than those in the US?
Time to bust out some google fu....
[Link: www.ourfuture.org...]
10. This all sounds great -- but the taxes to cover it are just unaffordable. And besides, isn't the system in bad financial shape?
False. On one hand, our annual Canadian tax bite runs about 10% higher than our U.S. taxes did. On the other, we're not paying out the equivalent of two new car payments every month to keep the family insured here. When you balance out the difference, we're actually money ahead. When you factor in the greatly increased social stability that follows when everybody's getting their necessary health care, the impact on our quality of life becomes even more signficant.
509 | Interesting Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:12:08am |
re: #495 EmmmieG
Um, health care is probably just as expensive in Canada, they just pay for it with taxes.
I'd much rather my taxes go to health care than some corrupt, unethical defense contractor or the execution of an innocent person.
510 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:12:28am |
re: #505 Vambo
BREAKING!!
In the United States, people never wait for medical treatment.
I've linked the study before. They took two populations with similar genetics and socioeconomic levels. Those who got cancer in Canada were more likely to die and way more likely to have to wait.
511 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:12:41am |
re: #507 NJDhockeyfan
Because the state wants money whether you purchase insurance or not.
Sigh. Do you think it could possibly be because the state provides some kind of financial fallback support when people without insurance smash their cars into other people's vehicles?
512 | KingKenrod Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:12:48am |
re: #483 Obdicut
The point is that it isn't just your business alone; if you, without health insurance, are involved in a car accident and rushed to the hospital, unconscious, and have millions of dollars of life saving work provided for you-- which I would definitely want done for you-- and are unable to pay for it, then that debt will be spread out amongst those people who do pay for health insurance, and amongst the tax payers who pay for subsidies for hospitals, doctor training, etc.
That's leaving out that it's in my best interest for you to get regular checkups to avoid spreading contagious diseases, etc.
No man is an island, and there are few places that's truer than healthcare.
The logical conclusion of this argument is that since you have a financial interest in other peoples' health, you get a say in how they conduct their lives and business. I'm wondering what philosophical system you base this belief on.
513 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:13:16am |
re: #510 EmmmieG
I've linked the study before. They took two populations with similar genetics and socioeconomic levels. Those who got cancer in Canada were more likely to die and way more likely to have to wait.
What about every other possible ailment besides cancer?
514 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:13:17am |
re: #501 Walter L. Newton
And smart ass, how do you know what I get done medically or not?
I don't. That's why I gave an example where you were unconcious; that choice would be taken away from you.
If you have this progressive need to delve into MY business, then here's the rundown. I have paid for all my check ups and standard maintenance procedures since I was laid off from the DOE, and that includes all the little recommended items that go along with a person my age.
I'm glad to hear it.
And no man is my keeper. I take care of what needs to be taken care of, and I don't cost anyone. And if you have paid attention to my comments over the years (months, whatever), you know I am a big proponent of self sufficiency. If I have to live out of the trunk of my car I will, before asking the public for anything.
You would not have the choice, if you were injured severely and were unconscious. Many people have awoken to medical bills.
You don't know me, stop trying to judge my character and how I exist. Heal yourself.
I have made no judgements on your character whatsoever in this. I'm pointing out that, in the case of an accident that rendered you unconscious, you could receive medical care that you are unable to pay for, and that therefore, getting some form of health insurance is a good idea.
515 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:13:47am |
re: #505 Vambo
BREAKING!!
In the United States, people never wait for medical treatment.
I'm talking about scheduled stuff. Canada does have longer wait times.
516 | simoom Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:13:54am |
For anyone who thought O'Keefe was bridging out from his usual race-focused fair in his latest "love boat" prank -- from the documentation for their plan:
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
The challenge is to create an operation that could spoof CNN, hurt their credibility and show the 'big lie' that they operate under, showing the truth that is unknown to the general public:Potential 'big lies' as it regards CNN:
1. Their general bias against conservatives.
2. Their own internal racism against whites.
3. Their potential racism against minorities.
4. Shoddy journalism, and low journalistic standards.
517 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:14:01am |
re: #511 iossarian
Sigh. Do you think it could possibly be because the state provides some kind of financial fallback support when people without insurance smash their cars into other people's vehicles?
You can buy uninsured drivers insurance with your car insurance.
518 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:14:36am |
re: #515 EmmmieG
I'm talking about scheduled stuff. Canada does have longer wait times.
Probably because half of Canada is a f***ing snow drift.
3. Wait times in Canada are horrendous.
True and False again -- it depends on which province you live in, and what's wrong with you. Canada's health care system runs on federal guidelines that ensure uniform standards of care, but each territory and province administers its own program. Some provinces don't plan their facilities well enough; in those, you can have waits. Some do better. As a general rule, the farther north you live, the harder it is to get to care, simply because the doctors and hospitals are concentrated in the south. But that's just as true in any rural county in the U.S.
You can hear the bitching about it no matter where you live, though. The percentage of Canadians who'd consider giving up their beloved system consistently languishes in the single digits. A few years ago, a TV show asked Canadians to name the Greatest Canadian in history; and in a broad national consensus, they gave the honor to Tommy Douglas, the Saskatchewan premier who is considered the father of the country's health care system. (And no, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was also Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather.). In spite of that, though, grousing about health care is still unofficially Canada's third national sport after curling and hockey.
And for the country's newspapers, it's a prime watchdogging opportunity. Any little thing goes sideways at the local hospital, and it's on the front pages the next day. Those kinds of stories sell papers, because everyone is invested in that system and has a personal stake in how well it functions. The American system might benefit from this kind of constant scrutiny, because it's certainly one of the things that keeps the quality high. But it also makes people think it's far worse than it is.
Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months. After two years in the BC system, I'm finding the experience to be pretty much comparable, and often better. The notable exception is MRIs, which were easy in California, but can take many months to get here. (It's the number one thing people go over the border for.) Other than that, urban Canadians get care about as fast as urban Americans do.
519 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:14:42am |
re: #513 jamesfirecat
What about every other possible ailment besides cancer?
The study only addressed cancer. Wait times are longer on other ailments, unless they've managed to shorten those recently.
520 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:15:15am |
re: #517 Cannadian Club Akbar
You can buy uninsured drivers insurance with your car insurance.
The perfect solution! Make other people pay for your own decision not to buy insurance!
521 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:15:18am |
re: #512 KingKenrod
The logical conclusion of this argument is that since you have a financial interest in other peoples' health, you get a say in how they conduct their lives and business. I'm wondering what philosophical system you base this belief on.
No, that is not the logical conclusion to that argument. I don't have a say in how they conduct their lives. I do have a say in saying that, given that I don't want to have a say in how they conduct their lives, I would like a more efficient health care system that doesn't render people who have accidents without health insurance bankrupt, and in the process cost the public money.
There is no way that saying, "Your behavior can potentially cost me money" becomes "Therefore I get to dictate what you do". It does become "therefore, let's try to figure out a way to mitigate that that doesn't compromise your freedom".
522 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:15:23am |
re: #513 jamesfirecat
What about every other possible ailment besides cancer?
My BIL in Canada had to wait 6 months for a hip replacement. Not judging, just from personal experience.
523 | Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:16:08am |
re: #514 Obdicut
I'll tell you what. I'll keep my conservative ideologies out of your bedroom, you keep your progressive bullshit out of my kitchen (no salt), my medicine cabinet (HCR), my garage (get a hybrid), my living room (mercury filled light bulbs), and any other place you feel you know better about how I live my life.
Deal?
524 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:16:08am |
re: #519 EmmmieG
The study only addressed cancer. Wait times are longer on other ailments, unless they've managed to shorten those recently.
Again: Canada has unusually long wait times for a UHC system. Part of that reason is simply the distance that they have to extend care over-- see James's link above.
525 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:16:47am |
re: #520 iossarian
The perfect solution! Make other people pay for your own decision not to buy insurance!
It actually covers the person WITH the insurance, who pays for their own.
526 | Coracle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:17:00am |
re: #516 simoom
2. Their own internal racism against whites.
3. Their potential racism against minorities.
That's pretty damning (well, on top of everything else).
If you're racist against whites and minorities, what exactly are you? A majority nonwhite? What is that? Are they assuming that e coli or housecats or something like that run CNN?
527 | Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:17:44am |
re: #516 simoom
2. Their own internal racism against whites.
Thanks. I hadn't seen that detail before.
528 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:18:34am |
re: #511 iossarian
Sigh. Do you think it could possibly be because the state provides some kind of financial fallback support when people without insurance smash their cars into other people's vehicles?
Because I live here and know it it isn't true. If you have no insurance, the state isn't going to help you if you get sued.
529 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:18:42am |
re: #523 Walter L. Newton
I'll tell you what. I'll keep my conservative ideologies out of your bedroom, you keep your progressive bullshit out of my kitchen (no salt), my medicine cabinet (HCR), my garage (get a hybrid), my living room (mercury filled light bulbs), and any other place you feel you know better about how I live my life.
Deal?
Haha, what a crotchety old bastard - how did Obdicut saying it was important for people to have health insurance turn into bitching about lightbulbs and hybrid cars?
530 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:19:14am |
re: #519 EmmmieG
The study only addressed cancer. Wait times are longer on other ailments, unless they've managed to shorten those recently.
The whole point about national systems, such as the Canadian system, or the NHS, is that there is prioritization of care. This prioritization is based on an ongoing public debate about a) how much money should be spent and b) what kinds of care are more important/urgent than others.
In the US, there is also a prioritization of care: are you able to pay or not?
So you're basically choosing between two forms of prioritization - one which is need-blind and one which isn't.
re: #522 Cannadian Club Akbar
My BIL in Canada had to wait 6 months for a hip replacement. Not judging, just from personal experience.
Hip replacements are the classic example of a procedure that most developed countries agree can be delayed, in order to gain efficiency.
How long does an uninsured 55-year-old in the US have to wait for a hip replacement?
531 | Coracle Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:19:51am |
re: #523 Walter L. Newton
I'll tell you what. I'll keep my conservative ideologies out of your bedroom, you keep your progressive bullshit out of my kitchen (no salt), my medicine cabinet (HCR), my garage (get a hybrid), my living room (mercury filled light bulbs), and any other place you feel you know better about how I live my life.
Deal?
But you have to take better care of yourself if I'm going to live vicariously through you, Walter. You're screwing my plans, you know. Sigh. I'll survive and soldier on. Life is disappointment.
532 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:20:00am |
re: #523 Walter L. Newton
You've gone rather astray.
The point that I'm making is that you are someone who, nobly, wants to never be supported at the public expense. I'm pointing out that, if you don't have health insurance and have a severe injury and are unable to inform the doctors that you don't wish to recieve care that you can't pay for, you will wind up in a position of deep debt that you most likely would not be able to ever escape from. This would mean that the debt was defaulted on, and that the taxpayers and others who paid for health insurance picked up your bill.
I am in no way attempting to impose my own philosophy on you; I am pointing out that, to be consistent with your philosophy, you should have some form of health insurance otherwise you run the risk of having the public pay for your care in the case of an accident or other critical illness.
Do you understand?
533 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:20:05am |
re: #512 KingKenrod
The logical conclusion of this argument is that since you have a financial interest in other peoples' health, you get a say in how they conduct their lives and business. I'm wondering what philosophical system you base this belief on.
The point is that we live in an interlinked, co-dependent society. What one group does, or fails to do, generally affects other groups. When 46 million people go to the emergency room for primary healthcare because they lack insurance, it affects me in myriad ways: cost of insurance, out of pocket emergency room costs, wait times, etc. Very few people have the strength of conviction and the inner strength to live self-sufficiently, as Walter does (no sarc tag here, Walter).
There does not need to be a philosophical underpinning to wanting other people to act in such way as to mitigate the negative impact they have on my life. This is called fairness, democracy and the rule of law. And if they don't do it voluntarily, then I have a right to expect enforcement by legal means. That is the difference between 2010 and the Wild West.
534 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:20:27am |
re: #528 NJDhockeyfan
Because I live here and know it it isn't true. If you have no insurance, the state isn't going to help you if you get sued.
No, I mean, say you don't have insurance, and you plow your car into another one, killing yourself and the two parents of three kids, who are at home with the babysitter. What happens to the kids?
535 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:20:59am |
re: #530 iossarian
I honestly don't know how long it takes to get a hip replaced.But I doubt 6 months. Just a guess.
536 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:22:00am |
re: #535 Cannadian Club Akbar
I honestly don't know how long it takes to get a hip replaced.But I doubt 6 months. Just a guess.
So you can get a hip replaced in the US without insurance, and without any money? in less than 6 months?
537 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:23:09am |
re: #530 iossarian
The whole point about national systems, such as the Canadian system, or the NHS, is that there is prioritization of care. This prioritization is based on an ongoing public debate about a) how much money should be spent and b) what kinds of care are more important/urgent than others.
In the US, there is also a prioritization of care: are you able to pay or not?
So you're basically choosing between two forms of prioritization - one which is need-blind and one which isn't.
re: #522 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hip replacements are the classic example of a procedure that most developed countries agree can be delayed, in order to gain efficiency.
How long does an uninsured 55-year-old in the US have to wait for a hip replacement?
My father's cousin is a doctor. The law in his state is that if someone walks into his office (gastroenterologist) and announces loudly that they are here for treatment and cannot pay, they must be treated.
I am currently watching (and doing a small part to help with) a fund-raising effort for an uninsured young lady with cancer. The treatment has already proceeded.
The issue isn't treatment, it is paying for it.
538 | Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:23:21am |
O'Donnell nonprofit failed to file
A nonprofit evangelical group founded and run by Republican Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell of Delaware is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status for failing to file required federal tax forms.
539 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:23:51am |
re: #538 Killgore Trout
We may be saved from the insane by their own incompetence.
540 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:23:58am |
re: #536 iossarian
So you can get a hip replaced in the US without insurance, and without any money? in less than 6 months?
Like I said, I don't know. But some doctors will work on a sliding scale and there is always equity in houses and payment plans.
541 | simoom Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:24:16am |
re: #526 Coracle
2. Their own internal racism against whites.
3. Their potential racism against minorities.That's pretty damning (well, on top of everything else).
If you're racist against whites and minorities, what exactly are you? A majority nonwhite? What is that? Are they assuming that e coli or housecats or something like that run CNN?
I think it was basically saying, "while we know they're anti-white racists, if we can't make that stick maybe we can find something to paint them as anti-minority racists. Once we have some video to work with we should be able to smear them from some angle."
542 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:24:27am |
re: #529 Vambo
Haha, what a crotchety old bastard - how did Obdicut saying it was important for people to have health insurance turn into bitching about lightbulbs and hybrid cars?
Let's keep the ad hominem attacks down to a minimum, shall we? Note that with all the back and forth between Obdi and Walter, neither has called the other names. You would do well to keep that in mind...
Just some friendly advice.
543 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:24:31am |
re: #537 EmmmieG
My father's cousin is a doctor. The law in his state is that if someone walks into his office (gastroenterologist) and announces loudly that they are here for treatment and cannot pay, they must be treated.
I am currently watching (and doing a small part to help with) a fund-raising effort for an uninsured young lady with cancer. The treatment has already proceeded.
The issue isn't treatment, it is paying for it.
Once you decide that everyone gets treatment, it is much cheaper (~20% at least) to do it via a national system, due to the administrative overhead savings.
544 | Gus Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:24:40am |
545 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:25:17am |
re: #534 iossarian
No, I mean, say you don't have insurance, and you plow your car into another one, killing yourself and the two parents of three kids, who are at home with the babysitter. What happens to the kids?
Why would I care...I'm now dead!
/What a stupid fucking comment.
546 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:25:27am |
re: #542 imp_62
Actually, Walter has called me a smart ass and said I'm saying progressive bullshit.
So, sorry, but that statement was untrue.
547 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:25:46am |
re: #543 iossarian
Once you decide that everyone gets treatment, it is much cheaper (~20% at least) to do it via a national system, due to the administrative overhead savings.
If the medical administration is going to be anything like the rest of our government bureaucracy, no thanks.
548 | Gus Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:26:20am |
O'Donnell's Oxford Education Claim On Second Website Was Authored By Her, Says Site Spokesman
Delaware Republican Senatorial candidate Christine O'Donnell has responded to accusations that she overstated her education in her resume by insisting that a LinkedIn profile erroneously stating she went to Oxford University wasn't authored with her knowledge.
But now a new website has surfaced listing the same erroneous biographical information. And a website spokesman claims that O'Donnell entered the data herself.
On Thursday, the Democratic National Committee pointed out a second O'Donnell Internet profile also lists the candidate as having studied at the University of Oxford (O'Donnell took a course with the Phoenix Institute on Oxford's campus). On a Zoom Info entry, the Delaware Republican is described as having received a "Certificate" in "Post Modernism in the New Millennium" at the University of Oxford. The entry, as noted in the top right corner, was "User Verified."
...
549 | Honorary Consul General Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:26:38am |
re: #547 EmmmieG
If the medical administration is going to be anything like the rest of our government bureaucracy, no thanks.
The DMV RULES!!!
//
550 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:26:44am |
re: #539 Obdicut
We may be saved from the insane by their own incompetence.
Pshaw. Wishful thinking - there is a never ending parade of lunatics waiting to step in.
551 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:26:55am |
re: #547 EmmmieG
If the medical administration is going to be anything like the rest of our government bureaucracy, no thanks.
Are you fonder of private bureaucracy for some reason?
Every interaction I've had with a disputed claim or some-such with a health insurance company has been a gigantic ordeal, usually spanning months if not years.
552 | KingKenrod Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:27:09am |
re: #521 Obdicut
No, that is not the logical conclusion to that argument. I don't have a say in how they conduct their lives. I do have a say in saying that, given that I don't want to have a say in how they conduct their lives, I would like a more efficient health care system that doesn't render people who have accidents without health insurance bankrupt, and in the process cost the public money.
There is no way that saying, "Your behavior can potentially cost me money" becomes "Therefore I get to dictate what you do". It does become "therefore, let's try to figure out a way to mitigate that that doesn't compromise your freedom".
Well, I think that makes sense, I was mistakenly reading a compulsory element into your statement about preventive care.
553 | shutdown Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:27:52am |
re: #546 Obdicut
Actually, Walter has called me a smart ass and said I'm saying progressive bullshit.
So, sorry, but that statement was untrue.
Oh, like now I am expected to fact check what I post? Where is the fun in that??
554 | Vambo Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:28:03am |
re: #547 EmmmieG
If the medical administration is going to be anything like the rest of our government bureaucracy, no thanks.
LOL. You really think the private insurance industry is tops, don't you?
555 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:28:11am |
re: #552 KingKenrod
Well, I think that makes sense, I was mistakenly reading a compulsory element into your statement about preventive care.
No. You can't force people to get preventitive care; you need to build trust in order for them to seek it themselves.
Gawande has a great bit about this, in reference to immunizations against polio in India, in his book "Better".
556 | iossarian Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:34:18am |
Got to go, and I see that there is a new thread to prod us back towards O'Keefe anyway!
TTFN.
557 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:36:31am |
re: #554 Vambo
LOL. You really think the private insurance industry is tops, don't you?
No, I think it's a broken system. I just don't want to go to a public system. Maybe I spent too much time considering the differences between the Iron Curtain economies and other economies, but that's also part of my age.
I have all kinds of reforms that I would consider, most of them not the ones made.
For example: make more kinds of insurance available. When we were facing a layoff, the only insurance we could choose from under the COBRA plan was $1,000 a month. There was only one type. (Husband found a job before the layoff took effect.)
Alternate locations for non-life-threatening emergency care. We have an urgency clinic that we go to before we go to the emergency room.
I've been here longer than I had time for this morning, mostly because I didn't want to "run away" from the discussion, but I do need to go.
558 | NJDhockeyfan Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:39:12am |
If Canadian health care is so great, why are some of their politicians coming to the US for major surgery?
559 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:39:58am |
re: #557 EmmmieG
NMaybe I spent too much time considering the differences between the Iron Curtain economies and other economies, but that's also part of my age.
You mean, like economies in Western Europe, all of which have UHC?
560 | Renaissance_Man Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:41:15am |
re: #547 EmmmieG
If the medical administration is going to be anything like the rest of our government bureaucracy, no thanks.
Pretty much every other first world Western nation blends private and public health insurance, thus providing more health care to more people at lower cost. Opposing total and overwhelming improvement because of vague ideological fears about the 'Iron Curtain' and 'government' seems foolish.
When ordinary Americans stop going to India for better, more available, and more affordable care, I might believe the US has a better system. Actions speak louder than words.
561 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:42:03am |
re: #558 NJDhockeyfan
If Canadian health care is so great, why are some of their politicians coming to the US for major surgery?
Dude, I answered this one already.
Our top 1% is better than their top 1%
That doesn't mean they have a worse system over all for the average person.
562 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:42:20am |
re: #559 Obdicut
You mean, like economies in Western Europe, all of which have UHC?
Does Sweden still have that eighty-percent tax rate?
563 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:42:48am |
re: #562 EmmmieG
Does Sweden still have that eighty-percent tax rate?
It has a very high tax rate. Are you under the impression that Sweden was on the other side of the Iron Curtain?
564 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:43:44am |
re: #563 Obdicut
It has a very high tax rate. Are you under the impression that Sweden was on the other side of the Iron Curtain?
No....I was under the impression that their huge amount of state-provided care came at a high cost.
565 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:45:58am |
re: #564 EmmmieG
No...I was under the impression that their huge amount of state-provided care came at a high cost.
Well, their huge amount of social services in general come at a high cost of taxation, yes. For that, they have greater social mobility than exists in the US, along with a host of other benefits.
But I was addressing this comment of yours:
Maybe I spent too much time considering the differences between the Iron Curtain economies and other economies
Sweden is not an Iron Curtain economy. Neither is Israel. Neither was West Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, Singapore, or Japan. And yet all of those places have had UHC for a very, very long time.
So I'm really at a loss as to what your 'Iron Curtain' comment has to do with anything.
566 | William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:50:52am |
re: #558 NJDhockeyfan
If Canadian health care is so great, why are some of their politicians coming to the US for major surgery?
To score ideological points?
567 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:55:13am |
re: #560 Renaissance_Man
Opposing total and overwhelming improvement because of vague ideological fears about the 'Iron Curtain' and 'government' seems foolish.
.
What? Total and overwhelming improvement?
Just because the government promises something doesn't mean it will happen, and it hasn't happened. When it happens, you can make that statement.
In general, a command economy cannot provide the same level of life as a market economy. In general.
The Russians got Sputnik up first. They were living in crappy little apartments.
Monopolies are usually not a good way to provide a service, with the obvious exceptions of those services that either cannot be provided privately (the army) or those that require a resource that is limited, like roads or airwaves.
The problem with health care in the US, as it stands now, is that the end-consumers have no incentive to try to be frugal*, which means that it operates differently than other types of goods or services. Also, not going out to eat is very different from not taking a child to the emergency room.
I have no faith whatsoever that the government could provide superior health care, and this is mostly from my past interactions with them.
*I am referring to times when you might choose to go to one doctor over another, or not getting a test right now if you feel it isn't necessary--which is something I did.
568 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:55:43am |
re: #565 Obdicut
See my last post. I don't feel like re-typing it.
569 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:04:01am |
re: #568 EmmmieG
See my last post. I don't feel like re-typing it.
Again: The Russians don't have anything to do with Sweden, or Japan, or Israel.
The problem with health care in the US, as it stands now, is that the end-consumers have no incentive to try to be frugal*
The end-consumers are people who seek health care. Those who lack insurance certainly do have an incentive to be frugal, as any health care they receive comes out of their own pocket. Anyone with a deductible likewise has an incentive to be frugal.
I have no idea what you mean by this statement. Do you mean those people who pay for insurance whose insurance masks the costs from them? Those people are the problem?
570 | Renaissance_Man Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:06:31am |
re: #567 EmmmieG
What? Total and overwhelming improvement?
Just because the government promises something doesn't mean it will happen, and it hasn't happened. When it happens, you can make that statement.
In general, a command economy cannot provide the same level of life as a market economy. In general.
The Russians got Sputnik up first. They were living in crappy little apartments.
Monopolies are usually not a good way to provide a service, with the obvious exceptions of those services that either cannot be provided privately (the army) or those that require a resource that is limited, like roads or airwaves.
The problem with health care in the US, as it stands now, is that the end-consumers have no incentive to try to be frugal*, which means that it operates differently than other types of goods or services. Also, not going out to eat is very different from not taking a child to the emergency room.
I have no faith whatsoever that the government could provide superior health care, and this is mostly from my past interactions with them.
*I am referring to times when you might choose to go to one doctor over another, or not getting a test right now if you feel it isn't necessary--which is something I did.
Nobody's talking about a command economy. We're talking about public health insurance, not a system where faceless men in black dispense medications. Such a system does not exist except in the fever dreams of people who read too many talking points before bed.
Your vision of a giant monolithic Department of Doctors does not exist. The British NHS is probably the closest, and that is by no means a monopolistic organisation. The other nations that provide universal health care do so in a blend of public and private health insurance, that complement each other. The 'government' does not provide the health care. They provide a system of compensation that allows virtually all citizens to be seen for medical problems, which do not discriminate based on income. In this way, health care is a problem of infrastructure, just as roads and electricity are. And just like those other infrastructures, private markets and industries do it worse.
571 | Interesting Times Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:13:50am |
re: #567 EmmmieG
I have no faith whatsoever that the government could provide superior health care, and this is mostly from my past interactions with them.
Here's my own personal interaction with the Canadian health care system. I suffered a whole lot, didn't I? :P
572 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:18:36am |
re: #569 Obdicut
Again: The Russians don't have anything to do with Sweden, or Japan, or Israel.
The end-consumers are people who seek health care. Those who lack insurance certainly do have an incentive to be frugal, as any health care they receive comes out of their own pocket. Anyone with a deductible likewise has an incentive to be frugal.
I have no idea what you mean by this statement. Do you mean those people who pay for insurance whose insurance masks the costs from them? Those people are the problem?
I am "those people" and I'm not saying they're the problem, I'm saying the problem is that we have no incentive to be frugal. No incentive to seek out the lowest cost for the best product, like we normally do.
I don't even know what my doctor charges for a check-up. The prices are different for self-pay, insurance, and medicare anyway.
As for deductibles, it's only an incentive to be frugal if it's a percentage. My co-pay is a set amount, regardless of the cost of service. I remember a friend saying years ago, who had percentage insurance, that if she had known what cost a certain service was, she would have gone without.
My comments about the Iron Curtain have to do with the idea of command economies and government monopolies. Right now in Oregon, they have government insurance for children (sliding scale payments.) They had to admit that there were some places you wouldn't be able to get a pediatrician because of costs.
Price caps cause shortages.
573 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:21:37am |
re: #572 EmmmieG
I am "those people" and I'm not saying they're the problem, I'm saying the problem is that we have no incentive to be frugal. No incentive to seek out the lowest cost for the best product, like we normally do.
I don't even know what my doctor charges for a check-up. The prices are different for self-pay, insurance, and medicare anyway.
As for deductibles, it's only an incentive to be frugal if it's a percentage. My co-pay is a set amount, regardless of the cost of service. I remember a friend saying years ago, who had percentage insurance, that if she had known what cost a certain service was, she would have gone without.
My comments about the Iron Curtain have to do with the idea of command economies and government monopolies. Right now in Oregon, they have government insurance for children (sliding scale payments.) They had to admit that there were some places you wouldn't be able to get a pediatrician because of costs.
Price caps cause shortages.
Selling a product that their is no realistic alternative to tends to cause price spikes in an uncontrolled market especially if collusion exists between the companies selling said product.
574 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:25:48am |
re: #572 EmmmieG
I am "those people" and I'm not saying they're the problem, I'm saying the problem is that we have no incentive to be frugal. No incentive to seek out the lowest cost for the best product, like we normally do.
You'll have to actually connect that to being a problem. I'm really unclear on what argument you're making. Are you saying the cost of health care is inflated by doctors and hospitals because consumers don't exercise discretion in purchasing?
I don't even know what my doctor charges for a check-up. The prices are different for self-pay, insurance, and medicare anyway.
All true: but what does that have to do with the subject under discussion?
As for deductibles, it's only an incentive to be frugal if it's a percentage.
A 'deductible' is an amount that the person is responsible for before insurance pays a dime. For example, I have a $5000 deductible. I am solely responsible for the first $5,000 of medical expenses I incur in a given year.
My co-pay is a set amount, regardless of the cost of service. I remember a friend saying years ago, who had percentage insurance, that if she had known what cost a certain service was, she would have gone without.
The number of medical procedures that fall into this area are rather low. Generally, if you need a medical procedure, you need it.
My comments about the Iron Curtain have to do with the idea of command economies and government monopolies.
Well, that's kind of facile, then, isn't it? You said you were comparing the Iron Curtain economies to other economies, but all of the other first-world economies in the world, aside from us, have Universal Health Care. And they are not command economies.
Price caps cause shortages.
But apparently you think prices are artificially inflated due to consumers not exercising discretion in what they buy, so how do you reconcile those two beliefs?
575 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:28:15am |
re: #570 Renaissance_Man
Nobody's talking about a command economy. We're talking about public health insurance, not a system where faceless men in black dispense medications. Such a system does not exist except in the fever dreams of people who read too many talking points before bed.
Your vision of a giant monolithic Department of Doctors does not exist. The British NHS is probably the closest, and that is by no means a monopolistic organisation. The other nations that provide universal health care do so in a blend of public and private health insurance, that complement each other. The 'government' does not provide the health care. They provide a system of compensation that allows virtually all citizens to be seen for medical problems, which do not discriminate based on income. In this way, health care is a problem of infrastructure, just as roads and electricity are. And just like those other infrastructures, private markets and industries do it worse.
There never has been a system where faceless men in black dispense medication, not even in the Soviet Union or Cuba. I never said there was. I said that the US did a better job of providing for its people than command economies do. When it comes to goods and services, market economies, balanced by limited government regulation, do a better job.
I don't hold that health care is an infrastructure. It's a service. If you were paying attention, a while back they ran a story on the cafeterias in the House and Senate. One had been privatized. One had not. The public one provided poor food and ran in the red. The private was, apparently, a lot better. (I've never been to DC, so I can't tell you personally.)
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
576 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:29:33am |
re: #575 EmmmieG
I said that the US did a better job of providing for its people than command economies do. When it comes to goods and services, market economies, balanced by limited government regulation, do a better job.
Agreed. And every other first-world nation that is a market economy balanced by limited government regulation has some form of universal health care.
577 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:29:35am |
re: #575 EmmmieG
There never has been a system where faceless men in black dispense medication, not even in the Soviet Union or Cuba. I never said there was. I said that the US did a better job of providing for its people than command economies do. When it comes to goods and services, market economies, balanced by limited government regulation, do a better job.
I don't hold that health care is an infrastructure. It's a service. If you were paying attention, a while back they ran a story on the cafeterias in the House and Senate. One had been privatized. One had not. The public one provided poor food and ran in the red. The private was, apparently, a lot better. (I've never been to DC, so I can't tell you personally.)
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Food is not even close to being like healthcare.
There are alternatives to buying food, you could bring a bag lunch from ANYWHERE else for example.
You can even grow your own food if you want... good luck giving yourself a heart transplant though....
578 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:30:44am |
re: #573 jamesfirecat
Selling a product that their is no realistic alternative to tends to cause price spikes in an uncontrolled market especially if collusion exists between the companies selling said product.
You would first have to prove collusion--that this hospital and that hospital sat down and fixed prices, and that this doctor and that doctor sat down and fixed prices. The insurance-doctor thing is a negotiated discount.
579 | jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:32:25am |
re: #578 EmmmieG
You would first have to prove collusion--that this hospital and that hospital sat down and fixed prices, and that this doctor and that doctor sat down and fixed prices. The insurance-doctor thing is a negotiated discount.
I was more referring to collusion among the people who sell the health insurance rather than those who provide the care.
I can't prove it exists of course, but if there was collusion, there would be f*** all we could do about it besides pay higher prices or go without, am I right?
580 | brownbagj Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:34:40am |
re: #532 Obdicut
I would say a good way to represent this is actually burial insurance. If you do not want to have your family have the burden of paying for a funeral, burial etc, you buy the insurance or plan to cover the costs.
Buying health insurance does the same thing to Obdi's point above. By being insured, I make sure that my expenses do not become everyone in America's expense.
581 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:37:38am |
re: #574 Obdicut
???
Price caps cause shortages. That's an established fact. Medicare patients have a harder time finding doctors.
Medicare prices are capped. Private aren't. Therefore, they'll operate differently. A lot of insurances right now have no deductible, just a co-pay. We haven't had a deductible in fifteen years.
Why would doctors operate differently than any other service? Emergency care, yes, you get what you need right now. Check-ups? You'd ask around and get a pediatrician that you thought provided good care for a good price.
If you had food insurance, and you went out to buy food, knowing that you would pay a set amount for your food, you'd only be concerned about the quality, not the cost.
582 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:43:05am |
re: #581 EmmmieG
Price caps cause shortages. That's an established fact. Medicare patients have a harder time finding doctors.
Okay.
Medicare prices are capped. Private aren't.
Well, they are. Insurance companies tell doctors what they will pay. That is the same as Medicare.
Why would doctors operate differently than any other service?
Because healthcare is rather different from getting your hair cut.
Check-ups? You'd ask around and get a pediatrician that you thought provided good care for a good price.
Can you show this in effect? Can you show me a country where this is true?
If you had food insurance, and you went out to buy food, knowing that you would pay a set amount for your food, you'd only be concerned about the quality, not the cost.
Actually, you'd factor in a bunch of other concerns, like how close the place was, how likely it was they'd have a selection of things that you wanted, etc. Analogies are always tricky that way. But 'food insurance' has no relationship to health insurance anyway, being A) non-existent and B) dealing with a good and not a service. So even by your own strictures, by which health care is just another service, you can't compare it to 'food insurance'.
583 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:44:20am |
re: #577 jamesfirecat
Food is not even close to being like healthcare.
There are alternatives to buying food, you could bring a bag lunch from ANYWHERE else for example.
You can even grow your own food if you want... good luck giving yourself a heart transplant though...
Uh, you bought the food in the bag lunch, dude. Unless you live at home, and your parents bought it. Grow your own food? Are you serious? My cousins the farmers don't grow their own food. They have a wheat farm, and need more than just ramen noodles. (Their wheat is exported to Asia.) Most people grow enough to supplement what they buy at a supermarket.
So, your choices are go to the supermarket and pack a lunch, or buy it pre-made.
My child has strep throat. (Happens all the time in our family, unfortunately). I could a. make a doctor's office appointment, b. go to the emergency room, c. go to the urgency clinic. or d. use the kits I own because we get strep throat all the time. Now, d would still require me to go to the doctor to get a prescription--if it comes up negative.
You are in college, right? Here's an analogy for you. The college I attended had two different types of dorms. Apartment style and regular. Regular had a cafeteria with three all-you-can-eat meals. Apartment you were responsible for getting and cooking your own food.
There was an end-of-year banquet for students who had done well academically who live in the dorms. Paid for already.
We in the apartment style were sitting at the table with the regular style. We noticed (it was really obvious) that we cleaned our plates, whereas the other kids left food on the plate.
How you pay for something does affect how you use it.
584 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:44:43am |
re: #579 jamesfirecat
I was more referring to collusion among the people who sell the health insurance rather than those who provide the care.
I can't prove it exists of course, but if there was collusion, there would be f*** all we could do about it besides pay higher prices or go without, am I right?
No. There are laws against price-fixing.
585 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:49:05am |
re: #582 Obdicut
Okay.
Well, they are. Insurance companies tell doctors what they will pay. That is the same as Medicare.
Because healthcare is rather different from getting your hair cut.
Can you show this in effect? Can you show me a country where this is true?
Actually, you'd factor in a bunch of other concerns, like how close the place was, how likely it was they'd have a selection of things that you wanted, etc. Analogies are always tricky that way. But 'food insurance' has no relationship to health insurance anyway, being A) non-existent and B) dealing with a good and not a service. So even by your own strictures, by which health care is just another service, you can't compare it to 'food insurance'.
How many people do you shop for? I shop for seven.
The nearest grocery store is an Albertson's. I go there when I have no time.
After that, it's a Costco. I go there when I have a specific need.
Three times as far away is a Winco. I do most of my shopping there, as we have four boys.
If price didn't matter, I would shop at the Albertson's and the Costco when I needed to. I do travel across town, and I very much check prices.
As for goods and services, that is a longer post, but it has been suggested, and I accept the idea that, there is no such thing as a good, because we never create matter. When you buy an apple, you are really buying the labor to grow the apple and get it to you. Neither the farmer or the trucker or the grocer created matter. They just changed it.
586 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:49:37am |
re: #583 EmmmieG
I meant positive. For a negative I would tell them to go lie down.
587 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:53:20am |
re: #585 EmmmieG
How many people do you shop for? I shop for seven.
That's completely irrelevant. I've shopped for as many as twenty.
If price didn't matter, I would shop at the Albertson's and the Costco when I needed to. I do travel across town, and I very much check prices.
That was, in fact, my point. You were saying the only consideration was quality. It's not. Even in your analogy, things are more complex than what you portrayed.
As for goods and services, that is a longer post, but it has been suggested, and I accept the idea that, there is no such thing as a good, because we never create matter. When you buy an apple, you are really buying the labor to grow the apple and get it to you. Neither the farmer or the trucker or the grocer created matter. They just changed it.
That's metaphysical. There are differences between goods and services; differences in the way they act in an economy, at any rate.
Can you acknowledge that you've understood the following?
A) Wait times in Canada are bad compared to other Universal Health Care systems
B) We are the only market economy with government regulation in a first-world country that lacks Universal Health Care insurace
C) People without health care or with deductibles already have to act with consumer discretion when paying for health care
D) The calculus of cost vs. quality is different when talking about whether to buy a certain kind of bread or whether to trust a surgeon to keep you alive during a complicated procedure?
588 | Renaissance_Man Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:53:21am |
re: #583 EmmmieG
How you pay for something does affect how you use it.
That is true. However, that has little bearing on solutions for healthcare.
Your argument is that if we are obliged to pay more for healthcare, and thus be more aware of the costs, we will use it less. That is both true and specious. It is, in fact, exactly the situation we have now. Those with no insurance are very aware of the costs for health care, because they bear all of them. And, as a result, they don't use health care until it becomes an emergency. Which results in greater cost of treatment (because the problem has progressed), and a greater cost that has to be eaten by the healthcare system, which then reflects back on the population as a whole. Resulting in greater costs for less effective treatment and less benefit to the patient, the doctors, and the population. None of which does anything to reduce the costs for health care, or the administrative costs of providing health care. All it does is make people sicker, and improve the bottom line of private health insurance companies.
Making it an inferior system.
589 | Ben G. Hazi Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:53:54am |
re: #291 Johnny2Times
When the facts are not on their side, the weak-minded and the lazy result to baseless insults...
590 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:02:52am |
re: #587 Obdicut
A) Wait times in Canada are bad compared to other Universal Health Care systems
B) We are the only market economy with government regulation in a first-world country that lacks Universal Health Care insurace
C) People without health care or with deductibles already have to act with consumer discretion when paying for health care
D) The calculus of cost vs. quality is different when talking about whether to buy a certain kind of bread or whether to trust a surgeon to keep you alive during a complicated procedure?
A. Could you post a link? We see more about Canada than we do about the UK over here in Oregon, for obvious reasons. Also, Canada's health care is different, as it is entirely government-care, not a hybrid. (Unless they've recently changed that. I thought I saw that they did.)
B. I really don't care if the US is doing things differently than other countries. We've done lots of things differently. For example, we have a first and second amendment that I don't believe are replicated elsewhere, and I sure wouldn't drop those.
C. Totally agree. However, I would have to see what percent that is. If a very large chunk of consumer don't have to act with discretion, that will affect things.
D. I do agree for life-saving examples, but I was talking about all the other stuff that has inflated the costs. For example, one of my sons had developed an easily-treatable condition. The doctor wanted to give him an expensive test, so I agreed. It wasn't until we were at the clinic and they kept saying, "Why does he need this test?" and giving me funny looks that I realized the test was for people with that condition recurring, not just once. If I had had to pay the $1,000 fee, I would have done more research and found this out. Trust me.
591 | Slap Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:03:16am |
re: #424 NJDhockeyfan
I realize Gilbert Gottfried is an acquired taste for many. (He makes me laugh often. Something about that squinty persona just cracks me up.)
But Leno's choice of Gilbert as the Mr Ronery stand-in has its charm:
592 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:07:17am |
re: #588 Renaissance_Man
That is true. However, that has little bearing on solutions for healthcare.
Your argument is that if we are obliged to pay more for healthcare, and thus be more aware of the costs, we will use it less. That is both true and specious. It is, in fact, exactly the situation we have now. Those with no insurance are very aware of the costs for health care, because they bear all of them. And, as a result, they don't use health care until it becomes an emergency. Which results in greater cost of treatment (because the problem has progressed), and a greater cost that has to be eaten by the healthcare system, which then reflects back on the population as a whole. Resulting in greater costs for less effective treatment and less benefit to the patient, the doctors, and the population. None of which does anything to reduce the costs for health care, or the administrative costs of providing health care. All it does is make people sicker, and improve the bottom line of private health insurance companies.
Making it an inferior system.
No, my argument is that if I saw the costs directly, I would be more careful. As it is, my husband's employer pays for our costs, which is paid for by his labor.
If I were queen of the world I would* develop some cheap walk-in clinics, like in, say, a Wal-mart. Oh wait, they've already started without me.
Part of the fear of going to the doctor for the uninsured is not knowing what it will cost.
*After I made my kids stop squabbling with each other.
593 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:11:54am |
re: #590 EmmmieG
A. Could you post a link? We see more about Canada than we do about the UK over here in Oregon, for obvious reasons.
I already did. I'm not referring to the UK. I'm referring to every other first world nation, which all have universal health care systems.
Here's a very good link:
[Link: scienceblogs.com...]
B. I really don't care if the US is doing things differently than other countries. We've done lots of things differently. For example, we have a first and second amendment that I don't believe are replicated elsewhere, and I sure wouldn't drop those.
Then you might not want to talk about UHC in the same breath as the "iron curtain", since every other non-Iron Curtain, democratic country provides UHC.
C. Totally agree. However, I would have to see what percent that is. If a very large chunk of consumer don't have to act with discretion, that will affect things.
You realize that you have yet to prove that people will act, in accordance to health care, in the fashion you say they would, right?
I have a high deductible. Do I shop around based on price? No. Why? First of all, price is nearly impossible to determine ahead of time. It is nearly impossible to get the information about price. It is nearly impossible to judge what a doctor is going to prescribe, offer as treatment, etc. You are assuming the consumer has access, basically, to their diagnosis, and to all statistics related to survival rates, malpractice incidents, etc. at various medical facilities. This is silly.
D. I do agree for life-saving examples, but I was talking about all the other stuff that has inflated the costs. For example, one of my sons had developed an easily-treatable condition. The doctor wanted to give him an expensive test, so I agreed. It wasn't until we were at the clinic and they kept saying, "Why does he need this test?" and giving me funny looks that I realized the test was for people with that condition recurring, not just once. If I had had to pay the $1,000 fee, I would have done more research and found this out. Trust me.
I'm sorry, but I don't accept anecdotes as evidence. Nor should you.
Please read this article:
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]
Yes, unnecessary tests are given. Yes, that raises the price. But it's facile to say if you had to pay it you'd do more research. If you had to pay for it, you're not adding in a layer of wise discretion about whether that test is the best medical course, but a potentially heartbreaking decision about whether you can afford this test for your son.
What if you have to decide whether to pay for a $1,000 procedure that has a 50% chance of curing your son? The economics of health care are not like other health care decisions; it is very, very hard to act with cool, calm rationality about health care matters, even if you did have access to all the information you need-- and you are seeking health care from professionals precisely because you can't understand all of these factors.
594 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:48:46am |
re: #593 Obdicut
That didn't tell me wait times. That told me whether or not they liked their systems. The true test, both for over here and over there, is to ask people who have experienced both.
Some of the other systems are hybrids, aren't they? Or, which ones are hybrids?
If I am not mistaken, you have your basic level of care, then you get private to cover more than the basic level.
Yeah, it's an anecdote, but there was nothing heartbreaking about it. His condition was easily curable, and the test was totally unnecessary. Also, people's feelings about health care during this debate are rising largely from their own experiences, both with the health care system and with the government.
They go to the DMV or to the local government office for a building permit, and they're afraid of seeing that level of service replicated in their doctor's office.
As a complete side note: Our education system mirrors Britain's, with 7-10 percent being educated privately, while most attend state schools.
This has nothing to do with the argument, it's just something that occurred to me that I looked up. And no, I'm not satisfied with the state schools. If we had the money to go private, we would.
595 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 11:55:29am |
re: #594 EmmmieG
That didn't tell me wait times. That told me whether or not they liked their systems. The true test, both for over here and over there, is to ask people who have experienced both.
Actually, it did. It's in one of the many, many tables: it asked about wait times before seeing a doctor. Every other nation but the US had a better score.
Some of the other systems are hybrids, aren't they? Or, which ones are hybrids?
Many, like ours, are hybrids, yes. But the difference is that they are universal, and ours are not.
If I am not mistaken, you have your basic level of care, then you get private to cover more than the basic level.
That would be a vague and inadequate summation of the case in many countries. That document details the differences rather well, it's a very valuable resource for anyone interested in this topic.
Yeah, it's an anecdote, but there was nothing heartbreaking about it. His condition was easily curable, and the test was totally unnecessary.
I am saying that it could have been a heartbreaking choice. It often would be.
Again: You are acting as though consumers of health care would have access to all information necessary to make informed consumer decisions about health care. This is fallacious, and I'm wondering why you think it's possibly true.
To evaluate the health care delivery at two different medical centers is an enormous project; why do you think an average consumer would be able to do it?
596 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:07:10pm |
re: #595 Obdicut
Actually, it did. It's in one of the many, many tables: it asked about wait times before seeing a doctor. Every other nation but the US had a better score.
Many, like ours, are hybrids, yes. But the difference is that they are universal, and ours are not.
That would be a vague and inadequate summation of the case in many countries. That document details the differences rather well, it's a very valuable resource for anyone interested in this topic.
I am saying that it could have been a heartbreaking choice. It often would be.
Again: You are acting as though consumers of health care would have access to all information necessary to make informed consumer decisions about health care. This is fallacious, and I'm wondering why you think it's possibly true.
To evaluate the health care delivery at two different medical centers is an enormous project; why do you think an average consumer would be able to do it?
All information? No. You'd have to go to medical school yourself for that. But what if we were put on a plan where my husband's insurance paid for catastrophic coverage, and gave us a monthly allowance for other stuff? I would ask to see fee schedules from pediatricians (or, rather, their office staff), or at least ask other mothers about how reasonable they felt the doctor was, price-wise.
And, actually, lots of moms do do their research. (What a really smart mom does is find out who does the research, and ask her.)
I just re-read the wait-times table. It doesn't have the information I really want, which is to know how long it takes to get the big stuff scheduled. (Chemo, heart surgery, major surgeries, etc.) Of course it's my personal interest. My husband's family has a history of cancer, and mine of heart problems, so I care about those.
597 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:11:44pm |
re: #596 EmmmieG
All information? No. You'd have to go to medical school yourself for that. But what if we were put on a plan where my husband's insurance paid for catastrophic coverage, and gave us a monthly allowance for other stuff? I would ask to see fee schedules from pediatricians (or, rather, their office staff), or at least ask other mothers about how reasonable they felt the doctor was, price-wise.
So what? My point is that you are not able to evaluate whether the cost of the service is actually 'worth it', and you are not going to be able to compare doctors and hospitals effectively. All you'll have is cost, basically.
And, actually, lots of moms do do their research. (What a really smart mom does is find out who does the research, and ask her.)
You really feel like you can analyze all factors involved in a choice between two hospitals and make an informed decision about which hospital is superior?
I just re-read the wait-times table. It doesn't have the information I really want, which is to know how long it takes to get the big stuff scheduled. (Chemo, heart surgery, major surgeries, etc.)
Then please find that out yourself, but until you do, please refrain from saying that UHC has longer wait times. For normal medical care-- seeing a doctor-- it has shorter wait times.
598 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:17:54pm |
re: #597 Obdicut
One of the first thing a mom does when she moves into an area is to research the local medical facilities and doctors. You might read the official stuff, look at some stats and what's available where, (the magazines talk about office visits, but I've never known anyone who did it). Mostly you ask around with other mothers to see who is happy with their pediatrician, how easy they are to get into, etc. Hospitals are the same way. You ask around. If one person had a problem with a facility, no big deal. If lots did, you think twice.
I chose my hospital to deliver in because it had a NICU, and the other one didn't. The Mom-reviews were pretty much balanced otherwise.
You probably didn't know this.
599 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 1:25:24pm |
re: #598 EmmmieG
One of the first thing a mom does when she moves into an area is to research the local medical facilities and doctors. You might read the official stuff, look at some stats and what's available where, (the magazines talk about office visits, but I've never known anyone who did it). Mostly you ask around with other mothers to see who is happy with their pediatrician, how easy they are to get into, etc. Hospitals are the same way. You ask around. If one person had a problem with a facility, no big deal. If lots did, you think twice.
Which does not represent anything like an actual analysis. "Asking around" doesn't cut it. Your sample size is going to be tiny. Maybe lots of people had a problem with a facility because that facility tends to take on the more problematic cases. Maybe that facility simply has doctors that are less charming.
I chose my hospital to deliver in because it had a NICU, and the other one didn't. The Mom-reviews were pretty much balanced otherwise.
You probably didn't know this.
Please don't treat me like I'm somehow ignorant about this. My wife has a chronic illness, I have a chronic illness, and I'm very, very knowledgeable about the difficulties involved in attempting to analyze the quality of care at different medical centers, and from different doctors.
600 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:09:34pm |
re: #599 Obdicut
Which does not represent anything like an actual analysis. "Asking around" doesn't cut it. Your sample size is going to be tiny. Maybe lots of people had a problem with a facility because that facility tends to take on the more problematic cases. Maybe that facility simply has doctors that are less charming.
Please don't treat me like I'm somehow ignorant about this. My wife has a chronic illness, I have a chronic illness, and I'm very, very knowledgeable about the difficulties involved in attempting to analyze the quality of care at different medical centers, and from different doctors.
I didn't say it was analysis. I said it was how most moms pick health care for their families. If cost were a factor, they'd ask about that, too.
We're both talking out of our experience here: You have a chronic illness and so how you pick a healthcare facility would probably be different than how I do. If one of my children developed a chronic illness, I wouldn't ask around, unless it was on a website devoted to that illness. I'd start researching which facility treated that illness, possibly nationally.
Don't you see that how we feel about healthcare, and how most people in this nation feel about healthcare, is going to come straight out of their experiences and their family's experiences? You can post all the graphs in the world, but a family that is prone to cancer (Full disclosure: my husband takes after his maternal grandfather physically. Both that man and his son died of stomach cancer.) is going to see the wait times in Canada and not want nationalized health care. On the other hand, a family with a medical bankruptcy will want it, for that reason.
I think the only thing we're going to agree on is that the current US system is not working. Why it isn't working, and what should be done to fix it, we will probably continue to disagree on.
601 | Obdicut Thu, Sep 30, 2010 5:52:39pm |
re: #600 EmmmieG
Don't you see that how we feel about healthcare, and how most people in this nation feel about healthcare, is going to come straight out of their experiences and their family's experiences?
So what?
is going to see the wait times in Canada and not want nationalized health care.
A) Until he's refused coverage by a health insurance company.
B) Why are you still referring to Canada's longer wait times after I've shown you that they're anomalous? Why are you referring to Canada's system as nationalized health care when it's nationalized health insurance?
I think the only thing we're going to agree on is that the current US system is not working. Why it isn't working, and what should be done to fix it, we will probably continue to disagree on.
I have no idea what argument you're even trying to make, at this point.