Strange Tales #143, March 1966
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Published in March 1966, the cover of Strange Tales #143 is a great example of Jack Kirby’s techno-baroque style.
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1 |
Jeff In Ohio Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:36:53pm |
Nothing is stranger then this election season. We will have some Strange Tales to tell in a decade.
| 2 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:37:23pm |
I’ve been a Mom too long. I took one look at the orange thingies on their torsoes and thought: “Booger to clean.”
| 3 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:37:39pm |
“Quick, nobody point their guns at anyone else!”
And… is the guy in the back using a mortar?
Baroque indeed.
| 4 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:38:23pm |
re: #1 Jeff In Ohio
Nothing is stranger then this election season. We will have some Strange Tales to tell in a decade.
My mother commented last night that if only she were still with us, Molly Ivins would be loving this political season.
| 5 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:38:32pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
“Quick, nobody point their guns at anyone else!”
And… is the guy in the back using a mortar?
Baroque indeed.
There’s no kill like overkill.
| 6 |
Okami Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:54:33pm |
| 7 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 23, 2010 12:56:54pm |
I was canvassed yesterday by the Republican candidate for sheriff, accompanied by his would-be undersheriff and a city council person who endorses them. I learned about some stuff that’s been going on that I didn’t know, some of it corruption in the sheriff’s department, and some of it major crime coming up from the south. I don’t like not knowing what’s going on, but I don’t feel better when I do find out what’s going on either.
I won’t become an ostrich, but I might become an ostrich sympathizer.
| 10 |
Surabaya Stew Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:03:58pm |
| 11 |
sagehen Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:05:54pm |
re: #7 wrenchwench
I was canvassed yesterday by the Republican candidate for sheriff, accompanied by his would-be undersheriff and a city council person who endorses them. I learned about some stuff that’s been going on that I didn’t know, some of it corruption in the sheriff’s department, and some of it major crime coming up from the south. I don’t like not knowing what’s going on, but I don’t feel better when I do find out what’s going on either.
I won’t become an ostrich, but I might become an ostrich sympathizer.
Assuming what they told you is true. If I were you, I’d double-check.
| 12 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:07:11pm |
re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If this van’s a rococo-ing, don’t come a-knocking.
| 13 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:12:36pm |
re: #11 sagehen
Assuming what they told you is true. If I were you, I’d double-check.
But with whom? The corrupt who are in office? The newspapers who don’t want to scare away readers? I now get my info about Mexico from a google group list run by a woman who monitors Mexican sources. I was reading the El Paso Times, but now I know they’ve been publishing about a third of the info that’s out there.
The undersheriff guy seemed to know what’s up. The sheriff candidate is from New Jersey, and seems to be the only guy the Repubs could get to run. I don’t think there’s been a Republican sheriff here since the territorial days.
| 14 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:19:20pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
“Quick, nobody point their guns at anyone else!”
And… is the guy in the back using a mortar?
Baroque indeed.
It looks like a a bit more like a 40mm grenade launcher. Those can fire 40mm shaped charge rounds, good for punching through a super villain’s armor.
| 15 |
Okami Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:23:44pm |
re: #14 Dark_Falcon
It looks like a a bit more like a 40mm grenade launcher. Those can fire 40mm shaped charge rounds, good for punching through a super villain’s armor.
Looks like a potato cannon. Maybe that’s just me.
| 16 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:30:34pm |
re: #15 Okami
That why it makes a “spuddering” sound?
| 17 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:32:33pm |
re: #13 wrenchwench
The fbi generally keep very good crime statistics. I’d start with them.
| 18 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:32:46pm |
re: #16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Careful, it can take an eye out. I really don’t see the apeel of such weapons. They make a mash out of the best battles.
| 19 |
engineer cat Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:36:50pm |
o.t.
i must say that seeing the 1931 dracula with new music by philip glass is really cool. since there is no music in the original, the pace for modern audiences is deadly, but the new music track really brings the creeeeepyness to life
or, brings it to un-dead-ness. as it were.
| 20 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:48:02pm |
re: #19 engineer dog
Saw the Lon Chaney “Phantom of the Opera” once with organ music at a theater… was freakin’ awesome!
At the very end of the movie, my favorite scene from all moviedom…
The Phantom is about to throw an explosive at the mob… then slowly opens his hand to reveal he’s got nuthin’… the mob attacks…
| 21 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:51:45pm |
re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Nice!
I saw Nosferatu at the chapel at University of Chicago, with a live organist playing creepy, minor-key variations on Prokofiev’s Peter and the Wolf.
It was awesome.
| 22 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:53:34pm |
| 23 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:56:37pm |
re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That is a great moment. I like the man in the crowd diving to protect the girl from the stampede of the vengeance-chasing others, too.
| 24 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 1:58:18pm |
| 25 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:05:14pm |
re: #24 Obdicut
Just great… gosh, we don’t agree on a lot, but you’d be a hoot to hang out with…
| 27 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:08:58pm |
| 28 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:11:34pm |
| 29 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:12:54pm |
re: #25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Thanks, man. I rarely talk politics in person, beyond “There’s a lot of people out there trying to fuck us over. Fuck them.”
More Buster:
I love that football scence— I love the one in the Marx Bros “Horsefeathers”, too.
| 30 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:21:58pm |
Off-topic (though, is there really a topic, “topic” in this thread?):
In my travels this later morning - early afternoon, I found myself in downtown Oakland observing an anti-war/occupation/killer cop rally, complete with various flavors of communism/marxism/bolshevism, etc. International ANSWER was there and I actually experienced the joy of standing right next to Richard Becker, the northern California director of ANSWER. His goon Forrest Schmidt (yeah, I know their names by now) was there, surveying the crowd for infiltrators - fortunately, no one spotted me because I recognized several creeps from past anti-Israel rallies. Overall, the rally was more of an awareness event, to bring to light (or attempt to anyway) the fact that yes, cops do from time to time kill people in the course of things. Names, pictures and literature were all around, of people killed by police, all across the country. I saw ANSWER’S signs calling for an end to police brutality, Oscar Grant signs of remembrance, and various anti-capitalist signs. It was well-organized with plenty of ‘watchers’ surrounding the area and OPD on the outskirts, keeping close tabs. I didn’t bother to take pictures. It may have looked suspicious.
| 31 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:34:04pm |
re: #30 eclectic infidel
I’m all for an end to the far-too-frequent cases of corruption in the police departments.
I don’t think ANSWER is the answer.
| 32 |
cliffster Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:35:01pm |
Halftime in the LSU/Auburn game and it’s tied. I’ll bet anyone $100 the Tigers will win.
| 34 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:37:21pm |
re: #31 Obdicut
I’m all for an end to the far-too-frequent cases of corruption in the police departments.
I don’t think ANSWER is the answer.
The Oscar Grant case, whatever it was, wasn’t a case of corruption. It was a case of a (BART) cop who tragically screwed up.
| 35 |
Tigger2005 Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:37:34pm |
I think Jack Kirby illustrated the Kamandi: Last Boy on Earth series. That one was cool. It was like Planet of the Apes on speed.
| 36 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:42:13pm |
re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist
True. And I feel bad for the cop. I’ve said that I don’t think he should go to jail, since there was so obviously no malice in his actions. There are so many cases of cops actively planting evidence and otherwise perverting justice, I’d much rather have those cases aggressively pursued.
| 38 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:43:41pm |
re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist
The Oscar Grant case, whatever it was, wasn’t a case of corruption. It was a case of a (BART) cop who tragically screwed up.
Correct. The jury returned the correct verdict, IMO. The cop screwed up and killed Grant, but it was not murder.
| 39 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:44:04pm |
re: #36 Obdicut
True. And I feel bad for the cop. I’ve said that I don’t think he should go to jail, since there was so obviously no malice in his actions. There are so many cases of cops actively planting evidence and otherwise perverting justice, I’d much rather have those cases aggressively pursued.
I thought the verdict* was sufficient, but here in Oakland, I keep that opinion to myself.
*Mehserle Case
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:45:16pm |
re: #38 Dark_Falcon
Correct. The jury returned the correct verdict, IMO. The cop screwed up and killed Grant, but it was not murder.
Unfortunately, nothing short of Mehserles being put up in front of a firing squad was going to satisfy certain elements in the political community. Oakland has suffered quite a bit as a result of this case. Interestingly, most of the people arrested in the miniriots there have been over it have been from out of town.
| 41 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:52:54pm |
re: #37 Gus 802
Julian Assange walks out on CNN!
[Video]We need a Wikileaks of Wikileaks. /
And with his latest release of documents with the names of informers against terror organizations not redacted, Julian Assange has descended into scumbag territory. Such a release of information that could get someone killed was precisely what Daniel Ellesberg worked to avoid and was why two of the volumes of the war study publicized as the Pentagon Papers were not published at all. By not even being willing to remove names, Assange has taken an action that is objectively pro-Islamist Terror.
| 42 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:53:10pm |
Speaking of Bay Area politics, there is a question on the ballot in San Francisco about letting non-citizens who have children attending public schools in San Francisco vote for school board members. (You got all that?)
My mother is opposed to the idea of letting non-citizens vote, but she has noticed that some of our moonbattier local press likes the idea because they imagine these immigrant parents voting in radical progressives.
My mother wonders if they have noticed that most of the people falling into this category in San Francisco are actually Asian, and tend to the conservative, especially as regards education.
Gonna be interesting to see.
| 43 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:54:16pm |
re: #41 Dark_Falcon
And with his latest release of documents with the names of informers against terror organizations not redacted, Julian Assange has descended into scumbag territory. Such a release of information that could get someone killed was precisely what Daniel Ellesberg worked to avoid and was why two of the volumes of the war study publicized as the Pentagon Papers were not published at all. By not even being willing to remove names, Assange has taken an action that is objectively pro-Islamist Terror.
I believe he’s anti-war… not necessarily pro-Islamist Terror.
| 44 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:55:16pm |
re: #43 Walter L. Newton
I believe he’s anti-war… not necessarily pro-Islamist Terror.
What’s the difference?
/
| 45 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:56:16pm |
| 46 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Oct 23, 2010 2:59:13pm |
re: #39 eclectic infidel
I thought the verdict* was sufficient, but here in Oakland, I keep that opinion to myself.
*Mehserle Case
hi you…My daughter was born at Merritt Hospital in Oakland..The rest of the kids were born at The Queen of the Valley in Napa..She thinks she is such a stud born in Oakland..Who can make an argument with her?
| 47 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:00:34pm |
re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist
I want angry Hmong on the school board!
| 48 |
cliffster Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:00:48pm |
re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist
They should just save the trouble and buy some hispanic votes. Better yet, just buy some hispanics.
| 49 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:00:56pm |
re: #41 Dark_Falcon
And with his latest release of documents with the names of informers against terror organizations not redacted, Julian Assange has descended into scumbag territory. Such a release of information that could get someone killed was precisely what Daniel Ellesberg worked to avoid and was why two of the volumes of the war study publicized as the Pentagon Papers were not published at all. By not even being willing to remove names, Assange has taken an action that is objectively pro-Islamist Terror.
What counts now is how the Iraqis react to this recent leak. According to an Al Jazeera report I just watched the onus seems to be on the Iraqi government for an internal investigation.
The leak itself is just a reflection of what most Iraqis have been saying all along so it’s not a new revelation for them. Outside of Iraq and in the USA the leak will be used as propaganda to further advance a particular point of view whether by the far left or terrorist organizations.
Obviously these leaks are not SOP. It shows that the US military has a serious security hole that needs to be patched. If Wikileaks is going to leak every single piece of classified military information to the public then it puts our country and allies in serious danger.
| 50 |
cliffster Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:05:42pm |
re: #49 Gus 802
Obviously these leaks are not SOP. It shows that the US military has a serious security hole that needs to be patched. If Wikileaks is going to leak every single piece of classified military information to the public then it puts our country and allies in serious danger.
Indeed, Assange is a real jackass (see what I did?), but not a real concern for me. I want to know, how’d he get those documents? Whoever makes that possible, that’s the ass I want to kick (see what I did again?).
| 51 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:06:05pm |
re: #47 Obdicut
I want angry Hmong on the school board!
I want them voting for Board of Supervisors candidates! Imagine, the SFBoardofSupes…the wall of crazed bad idea leftism finally breached by…Non-citizen IMMIGRANTS!
| 52 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:07:15pm |
re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist
Unfortunately, nothing short of Mehserles being put up in front of a firing squad was going to satisfy certain elements in the political community. Oakland has suffered quite a bit as a result of this case. Interestingly, most of the people arrested in the miniriots there have been over it have been from out of town.
That was definitely the feel I got at the rally.
| 53 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:08:35pm |
re: #50 cliffster
Indeed, Assange is a real jackass (see what I did?), but not a real concern for me. I want to know, how’d he get those documents? Whoever makes that possible, that’s the ass I want to kick (see what I did again?).
It’s odd but the Dod and other government agencies seem to be rather passive about the whole thing. I don’t understand this. Assange and Wikileaks needs to be at the very least, shut down.
| 54 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:09:47pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
I think aggressively pursuing it would demonstrate how lax the security for information is.
| 55 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:10:34pm |
re: #51 eclectic infidel
I want them voting for Board of Supervisors candidates! Imagine, the SFBoardofSupes…the wall of crazed bad idea leftism finally breached by…Non-citizen IMMIGRANTS!
If the Asian community ever really, really gets its political act together, some aspects of City politics are going to change.
| 56 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:11:38pm |
re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist
If the Asian community ever really, really gets its political act together, some aspects of City politics are going to change.
And while I’m on the subject, it is a shame and a disgrace that San Francisco still has not had an Asian mayor. (Please note, this is not an invitation for Sharron Angle to run.)
| 57 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:12:28pm |
re: #54 Obdicut
I think aggressively pursuing it would demonstrate how lax the security for information is.
Yeah. Which is pretty obvious by now. IOW, the silence is just a way the higher ups might be covering their asses. All they’ll do is find a couple of noncoms to nail against the wall. Much like they did with Abu Ghraib.
| 58 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:12:44pm |
re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist
Philly could use an Asian Mayor.
| 60 |
cliffster Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:13:58pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
It’s odd but the Dod and other government agencies seem to be rather passive about the whole thing. I don’t understand this. Assange and Wikileaks needs to be at the very least, shut down.
Yeah, pretty weird. ho hum, secret documents leaked. cya trumps national security I suppose
| 62 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:14:21pm |
re: #60 cliffster
Yeah, pretty weird. ho hum, secret documents leaked. cya trumps national security I suppose
It often does.
| 63 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:14:24pm |
re: #57 Gus 802
Yeah. Which is pretty obvious by now. IOW, the silence is just a way the higher ups might be covering their asses. All they’ll do is find a couple of noncoms to nail against the wall. Much like they did with Abu Ghraib.
And if anything leads to someone from The Long Gray Line forget about it.
| 64 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:16:06pm |
So, fellow Californians, or interested onlookers, what are your calls for next week?
I have a slight hunch that EMeg makes it. I think Fiorina doesn’t, although it’s going to be close.
What are your predictions?
| 65 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:16:08pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
And if anything leads to someone from The Long Gray Line forget about it.
It also demonstrates the DoD’s absolutely pathetic and amateurish data security regime.
| 66 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:17:08pm |
re: #65 Varek Raith
It also demonstrates the DoD’s absolutely pathetic and amateurish data security regime.
And this is what concerns me the most about these leaks.
| 67 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:17:37pm |
re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist
So, fellow Californians, or interested onlookers, what are your calls for next week?
I have a slight hunch that EMeg makes it. I think Fiorina doesn’t, although it’s going to be close.
What are your predictions?
By ‘next week’, I mean Nov. 2. I don’t know why I keep thinking it’s sooner than it is. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
| 68 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:18:24pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
And if anything leads to someone from The Long Gray Line forget about it.
I didn’t realize that Julian was in the movie Brain Candy?
[Link: t3.gstatic.com…]
| 70 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:18:35pm |
re: #65 Varek Raith
It also demonstrates the DoD’s absolutely pathetic and amateurish data security regime.
Computer data being almost accessible from almost anywhere. This as opposed to paper data, microfilm, etc., all being in one secure location under lock and key and armed guard. Now all you need is the password and sometimes encryption key.
| 71 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:19:03pm |
re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
By ‘next week’, I mean Nov. 2. I don’t know why I keep thinking it’s sooner than it is. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
That’s my birthday.
I’m expecting lots of presents from you all!
:)
| 72 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:19:44pm |
re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist
If the Asian community ever really, really gets its political act together, some aspects of City politics are going to change.
I SO look forward to it.
| 73 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:22:56pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
It’s odd but the Dod and other government agencies seem to be rather passive about the whole thing. I don’t understand this. Assange and Wikileaks needs to be at the very least, shut down.
Turning Assange and Wikileaks effectively into martyrs won’t address the core problem, our demonstrable inability to keep classified information classified. Shutting them down can only publicly legitimize their efforts and further erode American standing in the world, and would quickly turn into a game of whack-a-mole. It’s a lose-lose proposition and the Pentagon knows this. The Iraq War is a platter of crap sandwiches, now everyone gets to take a bite.
| 75 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:23:13pm |
re: #32 cliffster
Halftime in the LSU/Auburn game and it’s tied. I’ll bet anyone $100 the Tigers will win.
Not taking the bet, because with the SEC this year, anything is possible.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:25:04pm |
re: #43 Walter L. Newton
I believe he’s anti-war… not necessarily pro-Islamist Terror.
That is why I used the phrase “objectively pro-Islamist Terror”. An action is objectively pro-terror if its primary effect is to strengthen the Islamist enemy. Any benefit to the West is greatly outweighed by the killing of informers and the difficulty of recruiting replacements.
| 77 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:25:05pm |
re: #73 goddamnedfrank
Turning Assange and Wikileaks effectively into martyrs won’t address the core problem, our demonstrable inability to keep classified information classified. Shutting them down can only publicly legitimize their efforts and further erode American standing in the world, and would quickly turn into a game of whack-a-mole. It’s a lose-lose proposition and the Pentagon knows this. The Iraq War is a platter of crap sandwiches, now everyone gets to take a bite.
One does both. Shut down Wikileaks and plug the security hole. I don’t see how shutting them down would erode American standing in the world.
| 78 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:26:26pm |
re: #69 PhillyPretzel
Wishful thinking indeed.
Dirty secret about me…I love election nights. Even if the Dems are getting hammered. It’s like a rave for political geeks.
| 79 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:27:39pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
And if anything leads to someone from The Long Gray Line forget about it.
You mean a West Pointer, right? Well, that’s a pity. Douglas MacArthur was a West Pointer and he would have ruined anyone whose failures caused that sort of leak, no matter who they were.
| 80 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:28:25pm |
re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
By ‘next week’, I mean Nov. 2. I don’t know why I keep thinking it’s sooner than it is. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
Nah. Like most of us, you probably just want this election cycle to be fucking over already, damnit!
| 81 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:28:41pm |
re: #74 Gus 802
What’s been their latest cause celeb?
A few months ago they tried to pass a resolution divesting from Israel. Same old, same old, same old crazy.
| 82 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:29:05pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
You mean a West Pointer, right? Well, that’s a pity. Douglas MacArthur was a West Pointer and he would have ruined anyone whose failures caused that sort of leak, no matter who they were.
Back then? Well you know what would have happened back in those days. Whoever was found guilty would have been facing the gallows or a firing squad.
| 83 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:29:27pm |
re: #77 Gus 802
One does both. Shut down Wikileaks and plug the security hole. I don’t see how shutting them down would erode American standing in the world.
Because it says that the country that enshrined freedom of speech in law can’t handle the truth. Apt comparisons to the great firewall of China would ensue.
| 84 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:30:24pm |
re: #83 goddamnedfrank
Because it says that the country that enshrined freedom of speech in law can’t handle the truth. Apt comparisons to the great firewall of China would ensue.
There is no freedom of speech with regards to classified military information. Never was and never will be.
| 85 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:31:12pm |
re: #81 eclectic infidel
A few months ago they tried to pass a resolution divesting from Israel. Same old, same old, same old crazy.
Seriously? Damn, they’ve descended into Berkeley territory. Don’t they have any work to do?
| 86 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:31:25pm |
re: #83 goddamnedfrank
I’m not sure that many people would look at the theft and dissemination of classified information falling under the protection of the first amendment.
| 87 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:34:44pm |
re: #83 goddamnedfrank
Because it says that the country that enshrined freedom of speech in law can’t handle the truth. Apt comparisons to the great firewall of China would ensue.
But it also says we have the power and will use it if we must. That would give those who would leak a reason to fear, and that fear would be useful.
| 88 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:34:59pm |
Yeah, the press should have told the Germans about Enigma during WWII. Heck maybe Wikileaks will release classified information about the Israeli military.
Actually, that last one would get rid of Wikileaks within 24 hours. Boom! :)
//
| 89 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:35:08pm |
Hmmmm…
“It seems to me that the most significant revelations from the massive WikiLeaks document dump is the apparent extent of Iran’s nefarious role in Iraq. Remember how we were always being told that the Bush administration was exaggerating the extent of Iranian influence with the Shia militia groups in order to push along a neocon plot to attack Iran? Well, an initial reading of the documents conducted by the New York Times indicates there wasn’t much exaggeration at all.”
[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk…]
| 90 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:35:15pm |
re: #84 Gus 802
There is no freedom of speech with regards to classified military information. Never was and never will be.
I’m not arguing right or wrong, but metaphysics. Once Pandora’s Box is opened what comes out stays out, the process is irreversible. Attempting to fight the demons back inside would be like screaming at the wind, wasted effort for zero gain.
| 91 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:35:22pm |
re: #88 Gus 802
Yeah, the press should have told the Germans about Enigma during WWII. Heck maybe Wikileaks will release classified information about the Israeli military.
Actually, that last one would get rid of Wikileaks within 24 hours. Boom! :)
//
Next up;
Medical records.
| 92 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:36:45pm |
re: #81 eclectic infidel
A few months ago they tried to pass a resolution divesting from Israel. Same old, same old, same old crazy.
It had to do with Israel’s “illegal attack on the peace flotilla.”
| 93 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:36:56pm |
re: #90 goddamnedfrank
I’m not arguing right or wrong, but metaphysics. Once Pandora’s Box is opened what comes out stays out, the process is irreversible. Attempting to fight the demons back inside would be like screaming at the wind, wasted effort for zero gain.
Then is should be closed back up. For one, Assange is a foreigner, fuck him. Sorry about that but I think those m*ther f*ckers at Wikileaks need to have their asses handed to themselves. This should also be done to anyone who would take their place.
| 94 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:37:14pm |
re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m not sure that many people would look at the theft and dissemination of classified information falling under the protection of the first amendment.
Then try attempting prior restraint against US publications from publishing the content, see how far you get.
| 95 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:40:01pm |
re: #94 goddamnedfrank
Then try attempting prior restraint against US publications from publishing the content, see how far you get.
I’m not sure any reasonable, sane people would have a problem with stopping someone from publishing stolen, classified information.
| 96 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:40:53pm |
re: #85 Gus 802
Seriously? Damn, they’ve descended into Berkeley territory. Don’t they have any work to do?
Not so much.
They didn’t vote on the damn thing, BTW.
The Supes currently include several who see their role as being more educators in left-wing politics than part of City leadership.
| 97 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:41:14pm |
re: #93 Gus 802
Then is should be closed back up. For one, Assange is a foreigner, fuck him. Sorry about that but I think those m*ther f*ckers at Wikileaks need to have their asses handed to themselves. This should also be done to anyone who would take their place.
I know how you feel. I myself have been holding but on my ideas about Assange due to forum rules.
| 98 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:41:32pm |
Ah, I see part of the scheme. Wikileaks server:
IP Information - 91.194.60.32
IP address: 91.194.60.32
Reverse DNS: [Timeout]
Reverse DNS authenticity: [Unknown]
ASN: 39389
ASN Name: CURSYS-MAIN (Cursys Network Autonomous System)
IP range connectivity: 2
Registrar (per ASN): RIPE
Country (per IP registrar): FR [France]
Country Currency: EUR [euros]
Country IP Range: 91.194.60.0 to 91.194.61.255
Country fraud profile: Normal
City (per outside source): Paris, Ile-De-France
Country (per outside source): FR [France]
Private (internal) IP? No
IP address registrar: whois.ripe.net
Known Proxy? No
Link for WHOIS: 91.194.60.32
I wonder if Wikileaks has released any classified information on France yet. Wonder how long they’d last after that.
Note: I’m not France bashing. :)
| 99 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:42:35pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
Ah, I see part of the scheme. Wikileaks server:
I wonder if Wikileaks has released any classified information on France yet. Wonder how long they’d last after that.
Note: I’m not France bashing. :)
Walter’s still gonna kick your ass.
/
| 100 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:43:23pm |
re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m not sure any reasonable, sane people would have a problem with stopping someone from publishing stolen, classified information.
While not involving stolen info, se [Link: en.wikipedia.org…] for the last major case on prior restraint & classified information.
| 102 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:43:36pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
Ah, I see part of the scheme. Wikileaks server:
I wonder if Wikileaks has released any classified information on France yet. Wonder how long they’d last after that.
Note: I’m not France bashing. :)
Ain’t bashing, it’s the truth. France does not fuck around with their national security.
Hence, the nation that sometimes wrings its hands about Anglo-American hawkishness, but prudently keeps its own little nuclear hoard, just in case it’s needed.
| 103 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:44:13pm |
re: #100 wlewisiii
While not involving stolen info, se [Link: en.wikipedia.org…] for the last major case on prior restraint & classified information.
PIMF: see rather than se
| 104 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:44:23pm |
re: #97 Dark_Falcon
I know how you feel. I myself have been holding back on my ideas about Assange due to forum rules.
| 105 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:45:30pm |
re: #100 wlewisiii
Interesting.
| 107 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:46:31pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Ain’t bashing, it’s the truth. France does not fuck around with their national security.
Hence, the nation that sometimes wrings its hands about Anglo-American hawkishness, but prudently keeps its own little nuclear hoard, just in case it’s needed.
The two faces of Eve. Just like they’re still mucking around militarily and politically in the Sudan.
| 108 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:47:47pm |
re: #94 goddamnedfrank
Then try attempting prior restraint against US publications from publishing the content, see how far you get.
If only American treated its citizenry the way it treated its secrets
| 109 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:49:19pm |
So when is Wikileaks going to release any classified information on Iran or North Korea?
[crickets]
| 110 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:50:58pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
Are you implying that they have a rather lopsided focus in their agenda?
/
| 111 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:51:07pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
So when is Wikileaks going to release any classified information on Iran or North Korea?
[crickets]
if someone gave them some, I bet they’d release it 8-)
| 112 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:51:08pm |
re: #106 Varek Raith
We are so screwed in cyber warfare.
Not really. Our Cyber Command is actually very competent, but they have much to defend against.
| 113 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:52:30pm |
re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth
Are you implying that they have a rather lopsided focus in their agenda?
/
My guess would be yes. Although I doubt they have the ability to access that sort of information. You know what the Russians would do to them if they fucked with them. Or the Mossad.
| 114 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:52:45pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
[Link: mirror.wikileaks.info…]
for example. While the current splat is rather spectacular, US Military information is far from the only thing the publish.
| 115 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:52:52pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
So when is Wikileaks going to release any classified information on Iran or North Korea?
[crickets]
Never. Assange only picks on Western nations. If he went after an Islamist group, they’d come after him and try to murder him. It’s simple cowardice.
| 116 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:53:25pm |
How classified can the material really be if wikileaks got its hands on it?
| 117 |
Jadespring Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:54:28pm |
Hey all. Back.
I came so very close to buying Fallout Vegas. I had it in my hand. Soooo close. :)
Just couldn’t justify spending the money right now though.
So I bought a game that cost six bucks…. Assassins Creed.
| 118 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:54:46pm |
re: #116 eclectic infidel
How classified can the material really be if wikileaks got its hands on it?
Good question.
| 119 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:55:47pm |
re: #115 Dark_Falcon
Uhhh
Serious nuclear accident in Iran
On 16 July 2009, Iranian news agencies reported, the head of Iran’s atomic energy organization Gholam Reza Aghazadeh had abruptly resigned for unknown reasons after 12 years in office.[134] Shortly after WikiLeaks released at report disclosing a “serious nuclear accident” at the Iranian Natanz nuclear facility in 2009.[135][136] The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) released statistics according to which the number of enriched centrifuges operational in Iran mysteriously declined from about 4,700 to about 3,900 beginning around the time the nuclear incident WikiLeaks mentioned would have occurred.[137][138]
According to media reports the accident may have been the direct result of a cyberattack at Iran’s nuclear program, carried out with the stuxnet computer-worm.[139][140]
Guys, do your google work. :/ I mean fucking really.
| 120 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:55:56pm |
re: #114 wlewisiii
[Link: mirror.wikileaks.info…]
for example. While the current splat is rather spectacular, US Military information is far from the only thing the publish.
I’ve been to their site before. They’ve even published the Climategate emails when they got their hands on it.
| 121 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:55:57pm |
re: #114 wlewisiii
Interesting. Not nearly as disastrous in it’s possible consequences (like publishing names that will most likely get people killed), but interesting none the less.
| 122 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:56:36pm |
re: #119 WindUpBird
Uhhh
Guys, do your google work. :/ I mean fucking really.
Yes, because the The Federation of American Scientists will protect us from Iran.
/
| 123 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:57:30pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
So when is Wikileaks going to release any classified information on Iran or North Korea?
[crickets]
Or Russia. I’m sure they’d love to release stuff on Israel but they know better. He still might end up getting whacked or he might just disappear one day. You just can’t mess around with stuff like this and expect to live.
| 124 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 3:58:32pm |
re: #122 Gus 802
Yes, because the The Federation of American Scientists will protect us from Iran.
/
I’m just saying, everyones going OH MAN THEY:D NEVER DARE MESS WITH IRAN
and then they of course have leaked stuff from Iran
| 125 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:00:58pm |
re: #123 Killgore Trout
Or Russia. I’m sure they’d love to release stuff on Israel but they know better. He still might end up getting whacked or he might just disappear one day. You just can’t mess around with stuff like this and expect to live.
I wonder if he’s though about what he’ll do when the wet-work boys come looking looking for him.
| 126 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:01:07pm |
re: #124 WindUpBird
I’m just saying, everyones going OH MAN THEY:D NEVER DARE MESS WITH IRAN
and then they of course have leaked stuff from Iran
They did? Looks, the reality is that Wikileaks is a WASP run organization so they’re going to be limited to Western information.
| 127 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:01:16pm |
re: #117 Jadespring
Hey all. Back.
I came so very close to buying Fallout Vegas. I had it in my hand. Sooo close. :)
Just couldn’t justify spending the money right now though.
So I bought a game that cost six bucks… Assassins Creed.
Assassin’s Creed is AWESOME, but give yourself time to get used to the controls, they take some finessing, almost like a musical instrument
(also, search the hell out of everything in the little interin scenes)
| 128 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:01:25pm |
Speaking of amoral ass-hats that like to leak private information to the public for dubious purposes. A page.
| 129 |
Jadespring Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:02:47pm |
re: #127 WindUpBird
Assassin’s Creed is AWESOME, but give yourself time to get used to the controls, they take some finessing, almost like a musical instrument
(also, search the hell out of everything in the little interin scenes)
Okay. Thanks for the tip. Glad to know it’s good game. Regardless for 6 bucks it would have to be pretty crappy to not get my moneys worth.
| 130 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:06:10pm |
re: #126 Gus 802
They did? Looks, the reality is that Wikileaks is a WASP run organization so they’re going to be limited to Western information.
well, yeah, sure!
But the conversation seems to be heading towards Wikileaks being some evil threat to to the Republic when I’m sure if they got their hands on some juicy concrete stuff from anywhere in the world, they’d post it. Wikileaks is more like a force of nature than a political entity, there’s always going to be anti-secrecy activists on the internet, if they manage to take Assauge down with some childsecks charge or whatever they’re hitting him with this week, another site in some corner of the world will pop up doing the same thing.
Isohunt got shut down, everyone moved to other torrent trackers, it’s the way of the internet
| 131 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:07:10pm |
re: #129 Jadespring
Okay. Thanks for the tip. Glad to know it’s good game. Regardless for 6 bucks it would have to be pretty crappy to not get my moneys worth.
and the sequel’s out too!
| 132 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:08:07pm |
re: #115 Dark_Falcon
Never. Assange only picks on Western nations. If he went after an Islamist group, they’d come after him and try to murder him. It’s simple cowardice.
Exactly…Assange knows which side his bread is buttered on…and by that, I mean that he knows which countries he can piss off without winding up on the end of a rope.
| 133 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:08:09pm |
re: #125 Dark_Falcon
I wonder if he’s though about what he’ll do when the wet-work boys come looking looking for him.
I think you’ve been reading too many spy novels
| 134 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:09:28pm |
When in doubt, shout – why shaking someone’s beliefs turns them into stronger advocates
You don’t have to look very far for examples of people holding on to their beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Thousands still hold to the idea that vaccines cause autism, that all life was created a few thousand years ago, and even that drinking industrial bleach is a good idea. Look at comment threads across the internet and you’ll inevitably find legions of people who boldly support for these ideas in the face of any rational argument.
That might be depressing, but it’s not unexpected. In a new study, David Gal and Derek Rucker from Northwestern University have found that when people’s confidence in their beliefs is shaken, they become stronger advocates for those beliefs. The duo carried out three experiments involving issues such as animal testing, dietary preferences, and loyalty towards Macs over PCs. In each one, they subtly manipulated their subjects’ confidence and found the same thing: when faced with doubt, people shout even louder.
| 135 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:09:35pm |
re: #125 Dark_Falcon
I wonder if he’s though about what he’ll do when the wet-work boys come looking looking for him.
He probably doesn’t think we’ll reach out and touch him. He has quite a big ego and thinks there’d be worldwide outrage. There would be but everyone would forget about it in a week or two.
I’m sure the US would rather he not be releasing this stuff but he’s only being an annoyance. He’s probably getting some people killed but mostly low level informants that we really don’t care that much about.
If he ever tried to release something serious I think we’d probably stop him.
| 136 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:09:53pm |
re: #130 WindUpBird
well, yeah, sure!
But the conversation seems to be heading towards Wikileaks being some evil threat to to the Republic when I’m sure if they got their hands on some juicy concrete stuff from anywhere in the world, they’d post it. Wikileaks is more like a force of nature than a political entity, there’s always going to be anti-secrecy activists on the internet, if they manage to take Assauge down with some childsecks charge or whatever they’re hitting him with this week, another site in some corner of the world will pop up doing the same thing.
Isohunt got shut down, everyone moved to other torrent trackers, it’s the way of the internet
Well, they’re selling to a particular audience. Wikileaks readers aren’t interested in what China, Russia, Iran or North Korea are keeping secret. Their primary audience is geared against traditional Western nations; Israel, and the USA.
| 137 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:11:07pm |
re: #133 WindUpBird
I think you’ve been reading too many spy novels
I actually haven’t read very many. But Russia has used assassins in Europe recently. Putin wouldn’t hesitate to order Assange killed if Wikileaks was going to expose something damaging to the Russian government.
| 140 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:12:23pm |
re: #136 Gus 802
Well, they’re selling to a particular audience. Wikileaks readers aren’t interested in what China, Russia, Iran or North Korea are keeping secret. Their primary audience is geared against traditional Western nations; Israel, and the USA.
Quite Concur.
| 141 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:13:16pm |
re: #139 Gus 802
::: passing Gus a bowl of celery sticks :::
| 142 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:13:45pm |
Is it possible that the government lied about civilian deaths in Iraq because of the fear their own populace would turn against their war?
Does it bother anyone that we see support for the government lying to its own people on this issue?
Is this the sort of freedoms people want other countries to follow, I for one want my government to be transparent on things that the people have a right to know.
This specific issue I believe the people had a right to know.
I bet you would too if if was your relatives that had died.
It reminds me of those who would lie about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.
| 143 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:14:42pm |
re: #133 WindUpBird
I think you’ve been reading too many spy novels
To be honest, the CIA, SAS/MI5, and other intel agencies have liquidated people in the past for lesser things than Assange has done…not that it’s right or even legal, but it has been done and I don’t think D_F was out of line for posing whether the thought of that had crossed Assange’s mind.
| 144 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:14:55pm |
re: #141 PhillyPretzel
::: passing Gus a bowl of celery sticks :::
Too late. Cig is in my mouth ready to be lit! I’m broke so I can only chug away at one pack.
| 145 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:15:09pm |
re: #138 Gus 802
You’re far too kind.
| 146 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:15:42pm |
re: #136 Gus 802
Well, they’re selling to a particular audience. Wikileaks readers aren’t interested in what China, Russia, Iran or North Korea are keeping secret. Their primary audience is geared against traditional Western nations; Israel, and the USA.
Or put another way, their primary audience are people interested in what the US is doing, because we have the most influence on the world and the biggest military.
| 148 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:15:50pm |
re: #142 ozbloke
Is it possible that the government lied about civilian deaths in Iraq because of the fear their own populace would turn against their war?
Does it bother anyone that we see support for the government lying to its own people on this issue?
Is this the sort of freedoms people want other countries to follow, I for one want my government to be transparent on things that the people have a right to know.
This specific issue I believe the people had a right to know.
I bet you would too if if was your relatives that had died.
It reminds me of those who would lie about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.
To answer your question: No. I’m OK with being lied to if the lies were needed to win and we then won. It’s a war: It’s better to be dishonest winner of a war than an honest loser.
| 149 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:16:29pm |
re: #143 talon_262
To be honest, the CIA, SAS/MI5, and other intel agencies have liquidated people in the past for lesser things than Assange has done…not that it’s right or even legal, but it has been done and I don’t think D_F was out of line for posing whether the thought of that had crossed Assange’s mind.
It’s mostly the weird sort of fantastical language he uses, just rubs me the wrong way, sounds all gleeful “can’t wait for him to be killed hee hee”
| 150 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:16:31pm |
re: #146 WindUpBird
Or put another way, their primary audience are people interested in what the US is doing, because we have the most influence on the world and the biggest military.
Nah. They don’t care. They’d sell the soul of the USA down the river even if it resulted in its destruction. That’s the way the far left works. Always has, always will.
| 151 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:16:34pm |
re: #144 Gus 802
I tried. I know my dad still has cravings even though he has given up cigars for quite a few years.
| 152 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:16:49pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
To answer your question: No. I’m OK with being lied to if the lies were needed to win and we then won. It’s a war: It’s better to be dishonest winner of a war than an honest loser.
“won”
heh.
| 153 |
calochortus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:16:53pm |
re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth
I read a study that found conservatives’ beliefs were strengthened when they were confronted with contrary evidence, while liberals just ignored the evidence contrary to their own beliefs.
I gotta say, changing your mind is tough thing to do, but life works better when you go with the evidence.
| 154 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:17:54pm |
re: #151 PhillyPretzel
I tried. I know my dad still has cravings even though he has given up cigars for quite a few years.
I can’t afford it anymore. Seriously 2 packs a day costs an arm and a leg after a month, year, decade, etc.
| 155 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:18:46pm |
re: #142 ozbloke
As I understand it, the U.S. reported that 100,000 Iraqi civilians died over a certain period of time, while the Wikileaks thing says it’s 115,000.
It reminds me of those who would lie about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.
Wow. Just. Wow.
I see they let you out of the hyperbolic chamber a bit late.
| 156 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:19:14pm |
re: #153 calochortus
I read a study that found conservatives’ beliefs were strengthened when they were confronted with contrary evidence, while liberals just ignored the evidence contrary to their own beliefs.
I gotta say, changing your mind is tough thing to do, but life works better when you go with the evidence.
I guess that sounds right.
| 157 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:20:12pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
To answer your question: No. I’m OK with being lied to if the lies were needed to win and we then won. It’s a war: It’s better to be dishonest winner of a war than an honest loser.
Yes, but I have heard this from you too.
I believe him. End of story.
So forgive me if your first answer does not impress me.
I have been enthralled over the years at your knowledge of ‘American history’ but frankly, anything recent and I think you are a partisan hack.
| 158 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:20:47pm |
re: #154 Gus 802
This is where one of my former chat buddies got her smokes. [Link: www.tax-free-smokes.com…]
| 159 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:20:51pm |
re: #142 ozbloke
Is it possible that the government lied about civilian deaths in Iraq because of the fear their own populace would turn against their war?
Does it bother anyone that we see support for the government lying to its own people on this issue?
Is this the sort of freedoms people want other countries to follow, I for one want my government to be transparent on things that the people have a right to know.
This specific issue I believe the people had a right to know.
I bet you would too if if was your relatives that had died.
It reminds me of those who would lie about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.
Some will still contest the 100K figure which they already see as a low figure. Now, if they just released that it would be OK. But 400K pages is over the top. My gut reaction is that it should be terminated with extreme prejudice.
| 160 |
allegro Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:20:53pm |
re: #154 Gus 802
Get an e-cig. I haven’t had a cig in over 2 months - haven’t even really wanted one. Saved about $300 in that 2 months too. :)
| 161 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:21:10pm |
re: #153 calochortus
I think it’s just human nature. It takes a certain something for a person to change their opinions when presented new information.
| 162 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:21:25pm |
re: #155 Slumbering Behemoth
As I understand it, the U.S. reported that 100,000 Iraqi civilians died over a certain period of time, while the Wikileaks thing says it’s 115,000.
Wow. Just. Wow.
I see they let you out of the hyperbolic chamber a bit late.
Thanks SB, can I have a link for that please?
| 163 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:22:34pm |
re: #150 Gus 802
Nah. They don’t care. They’d sell the soul of the USA down the river even if it resulted in its destruction. That’s the way the far left works. Always has, always will.
I think we’re just fundamentally going to look at wikileaks as wildly different things, you’re making it 100% political left v right, and I’m really not. I think it’s more human behavior about the secrecy of an entity whose reach and influence and holdings and occupations and military bases spans the entire globe. Do you really think the readership of wikileaks is monolithically left wing? All that juicy info, all these information junkies, and you don’t think there’s anyone anywhere who is not politically hypermotivated who just Wants To Know What We Do When We Invade Countries? Seems like human nature to want to know. What does far left even mean? Our far left? France’s far left? Lebanon’s far left? So yeah.
If China was in our position, wikileaks would be hassling china (or some other site would, that has better access to China)
And if it was Russia, it’d be Russia on wikileaks. if it was India, it’d be India.
| 164 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:22:36pm |
re: #158 PhillyPretzel
This is where one of my former chat buddies got her smokes. [Link: www.tax-free-smokes.com…]
Looks like about what I can get them for here. Fortunately, Denver hasn’t been tainted with the NYC bug. ;)
| 165 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:22:51pm |
re: #142 ozbloke
Is it possible that the government lied about civilian deaths in Iraq because of the fear their own populace would turn against their war?
Does it bother anyone that we see support for the government lying to its own people on this issue?
Is this the sort of freedoms people want other countries to follow, I for one want my government to be transparent on things that the people have a right to know.
This specific issue I believe the people had a right to know.
I bet you would too if if was your relatives that had died.
It reminds me of those who would lie about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.
I’m sure there was a certain amount of fudging numbers. The government probably used lower estimates or different methods of counting, etc. However it’s very important to be aware that Wikileaks is not a bastion of honesty and integrity. Remember the last video they released showing us troops killing “civilians’? Dishonest editing worthy of Brietbart.
| 166 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:24:12pm |
re: #162 ozbloke
Thanks SB, can I have a link for that please?
Um, let me see if I can link to my television from last night. I think I still have one of those time travel plug-ins for my browser.
/
Sorry, saw it on the news the other night. Maybe we can Google something up.
| 167 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:24:31pm |
re: #163 WindUpBird
I think we’re just fundamentally going to look at wikileaks as wildly different things, you’re making it 100% political left v right, and I’m really not. I think it’s more human behavior about the secrecy of an entity whose reach and influence and holdings and occupations and military bases spans the entire globe. Do you really think the readership of wikileaks is monolithically left wing? All that juicy info, all these information junkies, and you don’t think there’s anyone anywhere who is not politically hypermotivated who just Wants To Know What We Do When We Invade Countries? Seems like human nature to want to know. What does far left even mean? Our far left? France’s far left? Lebanon’s far left? So yeah.
If China was in our position, wikileaks would be hassling china (or some other site would, that has better access to China)
And if it was Russia, it’d be Russia on wikileaks. if it was India, it’d be India.
Well, I already said it wasn’t all Wikileaks fault. This is something that has to be taken care of inside the military. By the Pentagon and upper level command. The leaks must be stopped before serious damage is done. So to that end I don’t care what the heck Wikileaks is on the political spectrum.
| 168 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:24:53pm |
re: #157 ozbloke
Yes, but I have heard this from you too.
So forgive me if your first answer does not impress me.
I have been enthralled over the years at your knowledge of ‘American history’ but frankly, anything recent and I think you are a partisan hack.
I’m not a hack, but I am partisan and I do not deny it.
| 169 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:25:12pm |
re: #159 Gus 802
Some will still contest the 100K figure which they already see as a low figure. Now, if they just released that it would be OK. But 400K pages is over the top. My gut reaction is that it should be terminated with extreme prejudice.
I’m not making a judgment over 400,000 doc’s however, if the cause is just then state your case to your people.
I don’t know how many times I heard ‘We don’t keep numbers on civilian death’s”. It was a blatant lie.
How is the next generation suppose to have faith or believe in a government who blatantly lies to its people.
My view, it stinks…
| 170 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:26:36pm |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
I’m sure there was a certain amount of fudging numbers. The government probably used lower estimates or different methods of counting, etc. However it’s very important to be aware that Wikileaks is not a bastion of honesty and integrity. Remember the last video they released showing us troops killing “civilians’? Dishonest editing worthy of Brietbart.
That’s another thing too. Why does everyone assume that these documents are all authentic? How do we know they haven’t been forged in places. Are there any foreign influences involved? Etc. People are going to take Wikileaks at face value?
| 171 |
calochortus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:26:53pm |
| 172 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:27:47pm |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
I’m sure there was a certain amount of fudging numbers. The government probably used lower estimates or different methods of counting, etc. However it’s very important to be aware that Wikileaks is not a bastion of honesty and integrity. Remember the last video they released showing us troops killing “civilians’? Dishonest editing worthy of Brietbart.
Hi Killgore,
Do you have anything that would suggest the numbers of civilian deaths reported by the wikileaks docs are forged?
Otherwise, I’m not sure I get your point.
| 173 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:29:08pm |
While I don’t like wikileaks, I also don’t like the government lying like this.
REMEMBER THE MAINE.
| 174 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:29:19pm |
re: #169 ozbloke
I’m not making a judgment over 400,000 doc’s however, if the cause is just then state your case to your people.
I don’t know how many times I heard ‘We don’t keep numbers on civilian death’s”. It was a blatant lie.
How is the next generation suppose to have faith or believe in a government who blatantly lies to its people.
My view, it stinks…
But isn’t that an anti-government view? So to speak? How different is that from the Tea Party view with regard to the government? So it’s bad to be anti-government up and until the military is involved?
| 175 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:30:03pm |
re: #170 Gus 802
People are going to take Wikileaks at face value?
And then some, it would seem.
re: #171 calochortus
Recognizing reality. It just makes things go more smoothly…
Heh. Not when you’re trying to discuss something serious with a person who refuses to do so. In other words, you’ve obviously not met certain members of my family.
| 176 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:30:06pm |
re: #149 WindUpBird
It’s mostly the weird sort of fantastical language he uses, just rubs me the wrong way, sounds all gleeful “can’t wait for him to be killed hee hee”
Believe me, I don’t want him dead. I’m not Iron Fist, I keep that part of me on lockdown. I sometimes have violent fantasies and I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t admit that Julian Assange hasn’t been the subject of one of them, but I do not want them to occur in real life. I’m not a rageboy, WUB, and I’m not going to be one. Please trust me on that. But do keep pointing it out to me if what I say concerns you. I need that sort of input to retain my self control.
| 177 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:30:31pm |
re: #167 Gus 802
Well, I already said it wasn’t all Wikileaks fault. This is something that has to be taken care of inside the military. By the Pentagon and upper level command. The leaks must be stopped before serious damage is done. So to that end I don’t care what the heck Wikileaks is on the political spectrum.
I don’t think we can change the culture of our military to prevent leaks of this nature. Our country is too big, our military is too big Information is too easily passed around. Every schoolchild now has the technology that used to be the province of spies. I can carry four terabytes of data in my pockets for the price of a couple nights out drinking. It’s never ever going to be possible.
It’s what Art Bell called “the quickening.” The pace at which things happen is accelerating, because the connectivity is accelerating. Internet technology we take for granted has only been around for a matter of years. And with all this connectivity comes a growing inability to keep things secret.
So i don’t really get bent out of shape. It’s like a car. No matter what car you drive, no matter how well you take care of it, no matter how you baby it, if you drive it, stuff will fail on it, you’ll lose horsepower over time.
It’s a fact of life. There’s no way to stop it short of drastic police-state-like measures.
| 178 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:30:58pm |
re: #175 Slumbering Behemoth
And then some, it would seem.
re: #171 calochortus
Heh. Not when you’re trying to discuss something serious with a person who refuses to do so. In other words, you’ve obviously not met certain members of my family.
Wikileaks is sacrosanct. For some strange reason. Do not question Wikileaks! All hale Julian Ausange for speaks “truth to power”!
/
| 179 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:31:08pm |
re: #168 Dark_Falcon
I’m not a hack, but I am partisan and I do not deny it.
I actually think your a good guy, I know we have not spoken that much, but I’ve read here for years. I like your.
I really don’t get why you believe Thomas over Hill and you didn’t give a reason, by the way did you see this?
Justice Clarence Thomas lover speaks
Thats now two women, any comment?
| 180 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:32:25pm |
re: #172 ozbloke
Hi Killgore,
Do you have anything that would suggest the numbers of civilian deaths reported by the wikileaks docs are forged?
Otherwise, I’m not sure I get your point.
Wikileaks released bogus edited video to try to frame US soldiers for war crimes so I don’t trust them as a reliable source. Various universities and think tanks (mostly in Europe) have been publishing wildly overinflated death toll figure for Iraq since the war started. The bottom line for me is that Wikileaks is not an honest group. They have an agenda and are willing to lie cheat and steal to advance their ideas. I just don’t find them trustworthy.
| 181 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:32:41pm |
re: #176 Dark_Falcon
Believe me, I don’t want him dead. I’m not Iron Fist, I keep that part of me on lockdown. I sometimes have violent fantasies and I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t admit that Julian Assange hasn’t been the subject of one of them, but I do not want them to occur in real life. I’m not a rageboy, WUB, and I’m not going to be one. Please trust me on that. But do keep pointing it out to me if what I say concerns you. I need that sort of input to retain my self control.
I’m just saying some of your words get weird sometimes :/
The only violent fantasies I ever have involve people who have physically done my friends or family wrong.
| 182 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:33:00pm |
re: #178 Gus 802
Wikileaks is sacrosanct. For some strange reason. Do not question Wikileaks! All hale Julian Ausange for speaks “truth to power”!
/
you know I never said that ;-)
| 183 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:33:20pm |
And give me a break too. I’m look at Wikileaks now a nd it’s 100 percent all about the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan. The primary function is “Iraq War Logs.” That’s what’s selling Wikileaks.
| 185 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:33:57pm |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
Wikileaks released bogus edited video to try to frame US soldiers for war crimes so I don’t trust them as a reliable source. Various universities and think tanks (mostly in Europe) have been publishing wildly overinflated death toll figure for Iraq since the war started. The bottom line for me is that Wikileaks is not an honest group. They have an agenda and are willing to lie cheat and steal to advance their ideas. I just don’t find them trustworthy.
True, true.
I had forgotten that.
:/
| 186 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:34:13pm |
| 187 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:34:22pm |
re: #183 Gus 802
I’d respect them a lot more if they went after corporate than governmental shit.
| 188 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:35:34pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
I’d respect them a lot more if they went after corporate than governmental shit.
And white supremacists, the KKK, etc. And other countries. Much like they were in the beginning. Now it’s more like AFPAKleaks all the time.
| 189 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:35:42pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
I’d respect them a lot more if they went after corporate than governmental shit.
Like those Blackwater-esque entities.
| 190 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:35:45pm |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
Wikileaks released bogus edited video to try to frame US soldiers for war crimes so I don’t trust them as a reliable source. Various universities and think tanks (mostly in Europe) have been publishing wildly overinflated death toll figure for Iraq since the war started. The bottom line for me is that Wikileaks is not an honest group. They have an agenda and are willing to lie cheat and steal to advance their ideas. I just don’t find them trustworthy.
Your standards are too high. You’ll never make it as a male prostitute.
| 191 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:35:49pm |
re: #174 Gus 802
But isn’t that an anti-government view? So to speak? How different is that from the Tea Party view with regard to the government? So it’s bad to be anti-government up and until the military is involved?
You mean other than the fact it seems these doc’s are legit, hence the government speaking out and not wanting them released.
Compared to the TP’ers who are just fucken batshit crazy angry delirious that you have a black person in THEIR whitehouse, who wants to kill granma?
So you think they are the same?
Back away from the bong…
| 192 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:36:02pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
I’d respect them a lot more if they went after corporate than governmental shit.
THIS TOTALLY
Unfortuantely it’s like any tabloid, the big juicy story is Iraq, not mortgage lender fraud or bank fraud. Guys killing guys is an easy story for anyone to understand.
| 193 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:36:55pm |
| 194 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:37:26pm |
re: #181 WindUpBird
I’m just saying some of your words get weird sometimes :/
The only violent fantasies I ever have involve people who have physically done my friends or family wrong.
Well, with me the list is broader, with my father too. But like you, we control ourselves and would never act of such thoughts. But thanks for staying heads up. It helps.
| 195 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:37:27pm |
re: #181 WindUpBird
I’m just saying some of your words get weird sometimes :/
The only violent fantasies I ever have involve people who have physically done my friends or family wrong.
Wikileaks is endangering our soldiers. American sons and daughters could die from the information they are leaking. I’m not advocating for him to be harmed or fantasizing about it but if he’s costing American lives I won’t be sad to see him gone.
| 196 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:38:19pm |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
Wikileaks released bogus edited video to try to frame US soldiers for war crimes so I don’t trust them as a reliable source. Various universities and think tanks (mostly in Europe) have been publishing wildly overinflated death toll figure for Iraq since the war started. The bottom line for me is that Wikileaks is not an honest group. They have an agenda and are willing to lie cheat and steal to advance their ideas. I just don’t find them trustworthy.
Killgore,
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Are the documents that wiki has just released are they from the US Govt/DoD?
| 197 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:39:29pm |
re: #196 ozbloke
Are the documents that wiki has just released are they from the US Govt/DoD?
I don’t know.
| 198 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:40:56pm |
re: #189 Varek Raith
Like those Blackwater-esque entities.
Again, the risk of that would be high. Xe (nee Blackwater) doesn’t have to play by the rules the government does. Some if the people he’d be implicating might well come after him. Assange is only brave when the threat level to himself is low.
| 199 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:41:49pm |
re: #197 Killgore Trout
I don’t know.
I’m under the impression they claim to be, is that your understanding?
| 200 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:41:57pm |
re: #195 Killgore Trout
Wikileaks is endangering our soldiers. American sons and daughters could die from the information they are leaking. I’m not advocating for him to be harmed or fantasizing about it but if he’s costing American lives I won’t be sad to see him gone.
I agree, but I also believe that were this not leaked to wikileaks, or if wikileaks did not exist, it would be leaked somewhere. In the age of instant information on the internet, with a years long war and occupation, it’s just a thing I expect to happen. I make my living on the internet, I watch human behavior on the internet as it mutates and negotiates obstacles.
| 201 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:42:01pm |
re: #196 ozbloke
I think the point here is that if Lucy pulls the football away at the last second causing Charlie Brown to fall on his ass, then why the fuck should Charlie Brown trust her not to do it again?
| 202 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:42:43pm |
re: #201 Slumbering Behemoth
I think the point here is that if Lucy pulls the football away at the last second causing Charlie Brown to fall on his ass, then why the fuck should Charlie Brown trust her not to do it again?
Good point.
| 203 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:44:19pm |
re: #201 Slumbering Behemoth
I think the point here is that if Lucy pulls the football away at the last second causing Charlie Brown to fall on his ass, then why the fuck should Charlie Brown trust her not to do it again?
Once more in english for the thick aussie, your metaphor goes over my head, sorry.
| 204 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:44:36pm |
re: #202 Dark_Falcon
Thanks. It’s Killgore’s point, really. I just added the Peanuts.
| 205 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:47:06pm |
re: #204 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks. It’s Killgore’s point, really. I just added the Peanuts.
Yes, but that helped make the argument accessible. Everyone knows about Charlie Brown getting hosed by Lucy pulling the ball away, and so the analogy helped make the point.
| 206 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:47:29pm |
re: #203 ozbloke
Once more in english for the thick aussie, your metaphor goes over my head, sorry.
Then I guess I can’t blame you for not being hip to older, American pop culture.
Essentially, if they have proven in the past that they will lie, cheat, and steal to advance their agenda, why the fuck should anyone think they won’t do so again?
| 207 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:48:52pm |
| 208 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:50:39pm |
re: #207 talon_262
Aw. You forgot to include the theme song.
| 209 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:52:36pm |
re: #199 ozbloke
I’m under the impression they claim to be, is that your understanding?
Yes but even if the documents are real there’s no guarantee that they represent the truth. He’s demonstrated that he’s willing to delete/alter information (as he did with the video) to advance his desired narrative.
Let’s suppose he finds a real military report that states “Sargent X was told by Informant Y that 20 civilians were killed on Dec 2 by a drone missile while having a birthday party. Investigation of the location discovered 20 bodies.”
Do you think he’s going to publish the followup report that shows the drone footage of 20 insurgents setting up a rocket on top of a school house when is accidentally explodes?
He can edit and select whatever he wants. He’s not honest or accurate.
| 210 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:53:00pm |
re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth
Then I guess I can’t blame you for not being hip to older, American pop culture.
Essentially, if they have proven in the past that they will lie, cheat, and steal to advance their agenda, why the fuck should anyone think they won’t do so again?
Oh, I get that but it seemed to me that you were arguing my case about how the younger generation could believe government.
Not being from the USA I have always seen your patriotism and not quite understood it.
I’m not sure where it might start and stop for you.
An example, its ok for the government to lie to its people about not keeping records of civilian deaths, because it helps America.
So would it be ok to lie to the people about AGW because it helps the American economy in the near future..
I’m sorry, I want hohesty and integrity from my government, crazy I know…
| 212 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:54:04pm |
re: #210 ozbloke
Oh, I get that but it seemed to me that you were arguing my case about how the younger generation could believe government.
Not being from the USA I have always seen your patriotism and not quite understood it.
I’m not sure where it might start and stop for you.
An example, its ok for the government to lie to its people about not keeping records of civilian deaths, because it helps America.
So would it be ok to lie to the people about AGW because it helps the American economy in the near future..
I’m sorry, I want hohesty and integrity from my government, crazy I know…
Boxing with kangaroos will do that…
/
;)
| 213 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:54:42pm |
re: #208 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw. You forgot to include the theme song.
Interestingly, Vince Guaraldi wrote that song as “Linus and Lucy” before he became involved with the Peanuts cartoons.
| 214 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:54:48pm |
| 215 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:55:06pm |
re: #208 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw. You forgot to include the theme song.
It is the time of year for the Peanuts cartoons to be played on TV…It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown and A Charlie Brown Christmas are two of my favorite holiday shows.
| 216 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:57:00pm |
re: #210 ozbloke
I don’t think you’re getting the point, which is…
If the folks at Wikileaks have proven to lie about/make up info in the past, why should anyone take what they’re doing now at face value and not expect them to continue to lie?
| 217 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:57:44pm |
re: #215 talon_262
It is the time of year for the Peanuts cartoons to be played on TV…It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown and A Charlie Brown Christmas are two of my favorite holiday shows.
They also show the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving episode, but that one isn’t nearly as good.
My personal favorite is It’s Magic, Charlie Brown. Snoopy turns Charlie Brown invisible.
| 218 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:59:47pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
They also show the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving episode, but that one isn’t nearly as good.
My personal favorite is It’s Magic, Charlie Brown. Snoopy turns Charlie Brown invisible.
That Peanuts show doesn’t exist…it’s dead to me.
/Peanuts snob ;-P
| 219 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 4:59:51pm |
re: #209 Killgore Trout
Yes but even if the documents are real there’s no guarantee that they represent the truth. He’s demonstrated that he’s willing to delete/alter information (as he did with the video) to advance his desired narrative.
Let’s suppose he finds a real military report that states “Sargent X was told by Informant Y that 20 civilians were killed on Dec 2 by a drone missile while having a birthday party. Investigation of the location discovered 20 bodies.”
Do you think he’s going to publish the followup report that shows the drone footage of 20 insurgents setting up a rocket on top of a school house when is accidentally explodes?
He can edit and select whatever he wants. He’s not honest or accurate.
I can except that he/they can selectivity blank out sections of the document.
I can except that he/they can selectivity release documents.
That could be easily shown by a government that would release their versions.
However, we need to be starting from a place that the government was being honest when it said it did not keep records on civilian deaths.
Please, your not asking me to believe that every mention of civilian deaths in these articles were placed there by wikileaks to make Bush/Obama look bad, I could believe a lot of things but I won’t buy that.
| 220 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:00:01pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
True story. When I was in grade school, I was in the same class as the girl who did the voice for Peppermint Patty. Or her side kick. I forget which one it was.
| 221 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:00:51pm |
re: #220 Slumbering Behemoth
True story. When I was in grade school, I was in the same class as the girl who did the voice for Peppermint Patty. Or her side kick. I forget which one it was.
Ooooh, a brush with greatness!
;-)
| 222 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:01:02pm |
re: #183 Gus 802
And give me a break too. I’m look at Wikileaks now a nd it’s 100 percent all about the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan. The primary function is “Iraq War Logs.” That’s what’s selling Wikileaks.
PLENTY of folk thought the Iraq war was utter nonsense and had little, if anything to do with what happened on 9/11. It’s no surprise that such an attraction exists.
| 223 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:01:07pm |
re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth
I don’t think you’re getting the point, which is…
If the folks at Wikileaks have proven to lie about/make up info in the past, why should anyone take what they’re doing now at face value and not expect them to continue to lie?
See my 219 please.
| 224 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:01:41pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
To answer your question: No. I’m OK with being lied to if the lies were needed to win and we then won. It’s a war: It’s better to be dishonest winner of a war than an honest loser.
You also said that you would have covered up the facts surrounding Pat Tillman’s death, implying that you would have lied to his family, the nation and yourself without a second thought. One can also then assume you regret that the coverup of the My Lai massacre failed and the truth came out. There is no absolutely no integrity at the end of this path if you choose to sacrifice all honor at the altar of expedience. Any so called victory secured under such conditions will necessarily be ephemeral, bitter, and absent all merit. Once you knowingly ditch dignity there is no getting it back, it’s gone forever. Sure, you might win the war as a result, as much as it can be “won,” but it’s still a wager, and if you lose you’ve lost everything.
| 225 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:02:24pm |
re: #223 ozbloke
See my 219 please.
Why? So I can simply repeat that those who have been proven liars in the past may well be lying now as well? What would the point in that be?
| 226 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:03:01pm |
re: #218 talon_262
That Peanuts show doesn’t exist…it’s dead to me.
/Peanuts snob ;-P
Ahh, just like Enterprise doesn’t exist in my Trek universe!
;)
| 227 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:03:46pm |
re: #219 ozbloke
That could be easily shown by a government that would release their versions.
The government may not want to reveal sources, methods, surveillance capabilities, intelligence assets, etc. Anyways the US Military does not hold open debates with bloggers. It’s just not how it works.
| 228 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:03:54pm |
re: #222 eclectic infidel
PLENTY of folk thought the Iraq war was utter nonsense and had little, if anything to do with what happened on 9/11. It’s no surprise that such an attraction exists.
Yes. But it’s too late now since the conflict is by and large over. Right now I only see the leaks as having the potential to destabilize whatever order there is in Iraq to date. Some people of course will never stop living the anti-Iraq war days for years to come.
| 229 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:03:56pm |
re: #226 Varek Raith
Ahh, just like Enterprise doesn’t exist in my Trek universe!
;)
And Metallica broke up after Cliff Burton’s death, never to record another song again.
| 230 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:05:17pm |
re: #219 ozbloke
I can except that he/they can selectivity blank out sections of the document.
I can except that he/they can selectivity release documents.That could be easily shown by a government that would release their versions.
However, we need to be starting from a place that the government was being honest when it said it did not keep records on civilian deaths.
Please, your not asking me to believe that every mention of civilian deaths in these articles were placed there by wikileaks to make Bush/Obama look bad, I could believe a lot of things but I won’t buy that.
No, Killgore’s not saying that. What he is saying is that Wikileaks has an agenda and in the recent past they’ve lied to advance that agenda. That agenda is in some way hostile to the United States. As such, Killgore, Gus and myself treat Wikileaks and its founder with a level of suspicion.
| 231 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:05:23pm |
| 232 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:06:01pm |
re: #225 Slumbering Behemoth
Why? So I can simply repeat that those who have been proven liars in the past may well be lying now as well? What would the point in that be?
I get it, you don’t believe the government was secretly keeping records.
You believe all occurrences of civilian deaths in the released documents were put there by wikileaks.
Can we agree to disagree, thats just to much for me to except at this point?
Disclaimer:
However. if you come up with any evidence to support your belief, I’m happy to see it.
| 233 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:06:43pm |
| 234 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:07:55pm |
re: #227 Killgore Trout
The government may not want to reveal sources, methods, surveillance capabilities, intelligence assets, etc. Anyways the US Military does not hold open debates with bloggers. It’s just not how it works.
Please remember, we are speaking here about civilian deaths, nothing more…
You may want to add its populace about civilian deaths in the cost of war.
| 235 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:07:56pm |
re: #232 ozbloke
I get it, you don’t believe the government was secretly keeping records.
You believe all occurrences of civilian deaths in the released documents were put there by wikileaks.
Mouthsuffing now, are you? Telling me what I really think when I type what I type? Very rude of you, have a down ding.
| 236 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:08:06pm |
re: #228 Gus 802
Yes. But it’s too late now since the conflict is by and large over. Right now I only see the leaks as having the potential to destabilize whatever order there is in Iraq to date. Some people of course will never stop living the anti-Iraq war days for years to come.
I think our govt needs to be more transparent regarding the former Iraq war. It’s never too late for our govt to be honest with us, IMO.
| 237 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:09:04pm |
re: #236 eclectic infidel
I think our govt needs to be more transparent regarding the former Iraq war. It’s never too late for our govt to be honest with us, IMO.
Not now IMO. Better to wait until Iraq is completely stabilized. To do otherwise is irresponsible.
| 238 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:09:05pm |
re: #224 goddamnedfrank
No, I don’t regret that the truth of My Lai came out. That sort of deliberate atrocity does need to be brought to light. To not do so is to invite a repeat of such a mass murder. That’s not the same sort of thing as covering up the circumstances of one death which was the result of an error. I believe in secrecy, but it has limits.
| 239 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:10:48pm |
re: #234 ozbloke
Please remember, we are speaking here about civilian deaths, nothing more..
Exactly. Wikileaks has faked evidence of civilian deaths before (as in their last video) by selectively editing out information about militants, weapons and insurgent activity. I see no reason to trust their release of these documents.
| 240 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:11:34pm |
Oh yeah look at this:
@wikileaks WikiLeaks
Claims Military Warned to Not Watch/View Wikileaks info or be “Court Marshalled” | Alex Jones [Link: [redacted…] by me]
19 Aug via bitly Favorite Retweet Reply
| 241 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:12:01pm |
re: #230 Dark_Falcon
No, Killgore’s not saying that. What he is saying is that Wikileaks has an agenda and in the recent past they’ve lied to advance that agenda. That agenda is in some way hostile to the United States. As such, Killgore, Gus and myself treat Wikileaks and its founder with a level of suspicion.
Hey Dark,
I get that, I see that that is what you believe, truly.
I’m not sure that if it leads to more transparency that it would be a bad thing.
Everyone has an agenda, I don’t know whether I accept that wikileaks sole purpose is to destroy the USA though.
| 243 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:12:32pm |
re: #240 Gus 802
Oh yeah look at this:
@wikileaks WikiLeaks
Claims Military Warned to Not Watch/View Wikileaks info or be “Court Marshalled” | Alex Jones [Link: [redacted…] by me]
19 Aug via bitly Favorite Retweet Reply
I think we need to schedule a flyover of his house.
Not enough chem trails.
| 244 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:13:22pm |
re: #237 Gus 802
Not now IMO. Better to wait until Iraq is completely stabilized. To do otherwise is irresponsible.
Iraq may never be stabilized. Our actions could have very well screwed the pooch, so to speak. I say begin releasing information on civilian deaths and include a list of both failures and successes pertaining to the immediate occupation of the country following the cessation of the formal military campaign.
| 245 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:14:02pm |
re: #241 ozbloke
Hey Dark,
I get that, I see that that is what you believe, truly.
I’m not sure that if it leads to more transparency that it would be a bad thing.
Everyone has an agenda, I don’t know whether I accept that wikileaks sole purpose is to destroy the USA though.
I’m not claiming that as their sole purpose, that’s the sort of claim Glenn Beck would make. I’m saying they have an agenda, and parts of that agenda are hostile to the US. That’s it.
| 246 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:15:03pm |
re: #235 Slumbering Behemoth
Mouthsuffing now, are you? Telling me what I really think when I type what I type? Very rude of you, have a down ding.
SB,
Forgive me, re reading what you wrote you are “questioning it”.
So, seeing you are only questioning it, if it was true would you be ok with it?
| 247 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:15:30pm |
re: #240 Gus 802
Oh yeah look at this:
@wikileaks WikiLeaks
Claims Military Warned to Not Watch/View Wikileaks info or be “Court Marshalled” | Alex Jones [Link: [redacted…] by me]
19 Aug via bitly Favorite Retweet Reply
If Alex Jones likes a website, then that’s a black mark on that website.
| 248 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:17:21pm |
re: #242 Gus 802
10 bucks says Julian Assange is a truther.
Honestly, I would have guessed the same as you.
| 249 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:17:51pm |
re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist
If the Asian community ever really, really gets its political act together, some aspects of City politics are going to change.
A fun contest to watch is Van Tran vs. Loretta Sanchez, in Orange County.
It’s been pretty nasty from the get-go!
| 250 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:17:52pm |
re: #226 Varek Raith
Ahh, just like Enterprise doesn’t exist in my Trek universe!
;)
I rather liked Enterprise, what little I’ve caught of it…some of the retconning was for shit IMO, but I liked the cast (and Scott Bakula as Capt. Archer).
| 251 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:18:21pm |
re: #241 ozbloke
I assume from your nic that you’re Australian.
Australia sees potential risk in release of Iraq documents
Australia’s defence department set up a taskforce to go through classified documents about the Afghanistan war released by the website earlier this year.
Mr Smith says the same taskforce will go through the lastest documents.
“It still does potentially give people an insight into the way into which we do operations and it does potentially put people at risk who have assisted us in the past, but we’ll go through that painstaking course and treat it in exactly the same way we’ve treated the earlier unauthorised disclosure of classified military information,” he said.
This puts Astralians in danger as well. I think it’s important to be realistic about warfare. If an Aussie soldier in Afghanistan fucks up and kills some civilians does the military hold a press conference the next day to identify the soldier and advertise the tragedy?
Countries at war do not operate on transparency. It’s just not realistic.
| 252 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:18:33pm |
re: #247 Dark_Falcon
I sent you a mail.
| 253 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:18:47pm |
re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth
Honestly, I would have guessed the same as you.
Eek! They’re all a bunch of weirdos. Seriously. The truthers, Wikileaks, Indymedia, Julian Assange. They still make me want to hurl.
| 254 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:18:57pm |
re: #250 talon_262
I rather liked Enterprise, what little I’ve caught of it…some of the retconning was for shit IMO, but I liked the cast (and Scott Bakula as Capt. Archer).
Also, Endor never, ever happened.
NEVER.
:P
| 255 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:19:09pm |
re: #246 ozbloke
So, seeing you are only questioning it, if it was true would you be ok with it?
No. We’re talking about classified information that was stolen, and the leaking of which will put many lives in danger, and not just American lives.
| 256 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:20:25pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
I’m not claiming that as their sole purpose, that’s the sort of claim Glenn Beck would make. I’m saying they have an agenda, and parts of that agenda are hostile to the US. That’s it.
Lets start from the place we dont know if the wikileaks docs are legit…
So do you think the government was keeping records?
And if they were is that ok with you for them to keep it from the people?
| 257 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:20:55pm |
Awesome!
Wikileaks founder Assange refused Swedish residency
By Lynn Herrmann.
Julian Assange, Wikileaks’ controversial founder, has been denied a residence and work permit by Sweden, a move coming just as Wikileaks prepares to release an estimated 400,000 files on the Iraq war.
| 258 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:21:49pm |
re: #254 Varek Raith
Also, Endor never, ever happened.
NEVER.
:P
A little pissed off that a bunch of sawed-off teddy bears with sticks and rocks helped to defeat your boys (crack troops, huh?), are we?
;-P
| 259 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:22:17pm |
re: #257 Gus 802
Awesome!
Wikileaks founder Assange refused Swedish residency
By Lynn Herrmann.Julian Assange, Wikileaks’ controversial founder, has been denied a residence and work permit by Sweden, a move coming just as Wikileaks prepares to release an estimated 400,000 files on the Iraq war.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
| 261 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:22:56pm |
re: #258 talon_262
A little pissed off that a bunch of sawed-off teddy bears with sticks and rocks helped to defeat your boys (crack troops, huh?), are we?
;-P
That and the Empire just disappers???
Thousands of Star Destroyers and untold millions of troops, and it’s over?!
Riiiggghhhttt…
Damn you Lucas!
:)
| 262 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:25:51pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
“When it comes to the point where you occasionally look forward to being in prison on the basis that you might be able to spend a day reading a book, the realization dawns that perhaps the situation has become a little more stressful than you would like,” he said.
Boo. Fucking. Hoo.
| 263 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:25:55pm |
| 264 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:26:37pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
I assume from your nic that you’re Australian.
Australia sees potential risk in release of Iraq documents
This puts Astralians in danger as well. I think it’s important to be realistic about warfare. If an Aussie soldier in Afghanistan fucks up and kills some civilians does the military hold a press conference the next day to identify the soldier and advertise the tragedy?
Countries at war do not operate on transparency. It’s just not realistic.
Hey Killgore,
Yes an aussie, guilty.
Some came with suitcases, we came with court cases…
Look John Howard had a woody for George Bush, there no denying it.
We supported the USA in Iraq and the UN in Afghanistan right wrong or indifferent.
Its really not what we are discussing though.
I only have one comment about the wikileak docs, and its not really even about that…
Heres the crux oh it for me:
Is it acceptable for a government to lie about civilian deaths in war?
Do you have a view on that?
Dark SB anyone still willing to talk to me?
| 265 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:28:08pm |
re: #261 Varek Raith
That and the Empire just disappers???
Thousands of Star Destroyers and untold millions of troops, and it’s over?!
Riiiggghhhttt…
Damn you Lucas!
:)
Read Timothy Zahn’s first Star Wars trilogy. Heir to the Empire is superb. Read it, you’ll like it.
| 266 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:28:10pm |
| 267 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:28:30pm |
re: #256 ozbloke
Let me give an analogy that may help.
Hospitals— the good ones— have a mortality and morbidity review every year, or more often. During these meetings, doctors speak frankly about mistakes they’ve made that have caused harm, even unto death. By talking openly with each other about such things, they’re able to identify potentially harmful patterns in their behavior, make adjustments, and save lives in the future.
These meetings are closed-door, no notes are taken, so that the doctors can speak in an attitude of frankness. If notes were taken, if minutes were published, the doctors would not speak out of fear of malpractice lawsuits.
I am very leery of the military or government keeping secrets. However, I understand and realize that there may be a purpose to keeping secrets, that there may be an actual function. To release secrets willy-nilly, as Wikileaks has done, is always going to cause some harm. It may cause some good, as well, sure. But it is always going to cause harm— like releasing the names of the informants and placing them, and our troops, in danger.
I agree with WUB that, in this day and age, secrets will be ferreted out and released. I also agree that, in this day or any other, the military and the government will attempt to keep secrets.
I am glad when secrets that need to be exposed are. I’m aggrieved when troops are put in danger by the release of information.
I am happy when a corrupt corporation’s email is released, showing that he’s corrupt and exposing harmful activities to the public.
I’m upset when scientists emails are released to make it appear as though they’re misbehaving in some manner.
Context matters, substance matters. The answer is never “leaking everything is good” or “hiding everything is bad”. Wikileaks goes far, far, far too much in the direction of “leaking everything is good” and then, to compound the problem, they alter and edit files to create a false impression as well.
That last part puts them beyond the pale, as far as I’m concerned.
| 268 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:29:18pm |
re: #257 Gus 802
I found this at the site you linked:
Tea Party anti-abortion ad too graphic for YouTube but not TV
Warning: The footage shown in these two political advertisements is sickening and contains extremely graphic images and may be too disturbing for most viewers.
Seriously.
So, how’s that “We’re just about lower taxes and smaller gov’t” meme working out for you Tea Baggers? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
| 270 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:30:54pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
More good news.
WikiLeaks Julian Assange on the Move ‘Like a Hunted Man,’ Report Says
I wouldn’t say that it’s “good news”, but that piece on Assange sounds very self-serving…does he think the US is going to send a hit squad after him? If he’s afraid simply that his DoD document dump may put him in jail, why not go somewhere warmer than Sweden that’s more extradition-friendly?
I seriously don’t think he’s in any danger from the US government (legal trouble is another thing), but Assange is definitely an attention whore…
| 271 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:31:34pm |
re: #267 Obdicut
Very well said.
| 272 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:32:39pm |
re: #267 Obdicut
Let me give an analogy that may help.
Hospitals— the good ones— have a mortality and morbidity review every year, or more often. During these meetings, doctors speak frankly about mistakes they’ve made that have caused harm, even unto death. By talking openly with each other about such things, they’re able to identify potentially harmful patterns in their behavior, make adjustments, and save lives in the future.
These meetings are closed-door, no notes are taken, so that the doctors can speak in an attitude of frankness. If notes were taken, if minutes were published, the doctors would not speak out of fear of malpractice lawsuits.
I am very leery of the military or government keeping secrets. However, I understand and realize that there may be a purpose to keeping secrets, that there may be an actual function. To release secrets willy-nilly, as Wikileaks has done, is always going to cause some harm. It may cause some good, as well, sure. But it is always going to cause harm— like releasing the names of the informants and placing them, and our troops, in danger.
I agree with WUB that, in this day and age, secrets will be ferreted out and released. I also agree that, in this day or any other, the military and the government will attempt to keep secrets.
I am glad when secrets that need to be exposed are. I’m aggrieved when troops are put in danger by the release of information.
I am happy when a corrupt corporation’s email is released, showing that he’s corrupt and exposing harmful activities to the public.
I’m upset when scientists emails are released to make it appear as though they’re misbehaving in some manner.
Context matters, substance matters. The answer is never “leaking everything is good” or “hiding everything is bad”. Wikileaks goes far, far, far too much in the direction of “leaking everything is good” and then, to compound the problem, they alter and edit files to create a false impression as well.
That last part puts them beyond the pale, as far as I’m concerned.
DING DING DING
| 273 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:32:46pm |
re: #264 ozbloke
Hey Killgore,
Yes an aussie, guilty.
Some came with suitcases, we came with court cases…Look John Howard had a woody for George Bush, there no denying it.
We supported the USA in Iraq and the UN in Afghanistan right wrong or indifferent.Its really not what we are discussing though.
I only have one comment about the wikileak docs, and its not really even about that…
Heres the crux oh it for me:
Is it acceptable for a government to lie about civilian deaths in war?Do you have a view on that?
Dark SB anyone still willing to talk to me?
Yes, there are times when it is acceptable for the government to lie. The right to know is not absolute.
Moreover, even had the government explained everything it knew, the truth would not have gotten out. The media was pushing a meme highlighted deaths the US could be blamed for and ignored the fact that the great majority of the carnage was inflicted by Al Qaeda in Iraq. They would not have ceased that drumbeat, no matter what the Bush administration said. There was no upside to the truth, it could only have hurt the nation.
| 274 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:34:54pm |
re: #264 ozbloke
Is it acceptable for a government to lie about civilian deaths in war?
Do you have a view on that?
While operations are ongoing I expect the publicly released information on things like civilian casualties to be lowball estimates. Our military does keep information of collateral damage precisely because we want to minimize it. Urban warfare is very messy. Especially with an enemy who uses human shields, fights from civilian areas, wears civilian clothing. Has Al Qaeda released their estimates on how many Iraqi civilians they’ve killed? It’s very difficult to minimize civilian deaths when fighting an enemy who wants to increase civilian deaths.
| 275 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:34:54pm |
re: #267 Obdicut
Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We’re bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We’re coming in from the north, below their radar.
Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back?
Ted Striker: I can’t tell you that. It’s classified.
| 276 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:36:33pm |
re: #265 Dark_Falcon
Read Timothy Zahn’s first Star Wars trilogy. Heir to the Empire is superb. Read it, you’ll like it.
Added to list.
Damn, I’m so far behind on it.
:/
| 277 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:36:59pm |
re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist
My mother commented last night that if only she were still with us, Molly Ivins would be loving this political season.
I doubt she’d be able to stop laughing long enough to catch her breath, and would thereby manage to die of suffocation anyway.
Also: Zombie Ann Richards for Senate, please?
| 278 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:37:22pm |
re: #267 Obdicut
Let me give an analogy that may help.
Hospitals— the good ones— have a mortality and morbidity review every year, or more often. During these meetings, doctors speak frankly about mistakes they’ve made that have caused harm, even unto death. By talking openly with each other about such things, they’re able to identify potentially harmful patterns in their behavior, make adjustments, and save lives in the future.
These meetings are closed-door, no notes are taken, so that the doctors can speak in an attitude of frankness. If notes were taken, if minutes were published, the doctors would not speak out of fear of malpractice lawsuits.
I am very leery of the military or government keeping secrets. However, I understand and realize that there may be a purpose to keeping secrets, that there may be an actual function. To release secrets willy-nilly, as Wikileaks has done, is always going to cause some harm. It may cause some good, as well, sure. But it is always going to cause harm— like releasing the names of the informants and placing them, and our troops, in danger.
I agree with WUB that, in this day and age, secrets will be ferreted out and released. I also agree that, in this day or any other, the military and the government will attempt to keep secrets.
I am glad when secrets that need to be exposed are. I’m aggrieved when troops are put in danger by the release of information.
I am happy when a corrupt corporation’s email is released, showing that he’s corrupt and exposing harmful activities to the public.
I’m upset when scientists emails are released to make it appear as though they’re misbehaving in some manner.
Context matters, substance matters. The answer is never “leaking everything is good” or “hiding everything is bad”. Wikileaks goes far, far, far too much in the direction of “leaking everything is good” and then, to compound the problem, they alter and edit files to create a false impression as well.
That last part puts them beyond the pale, as far as I’m concerned.
Obicut,
I agree with everything you say.
I thank you that you took time to write…
Please see that my first question, and only question is about civilian deaths, and the honesty between a government and its people over civilian deaths in war.
The people of a nation have a right to know the cost of war, and the government works for its people.
I am not asking for a ‘daily report’, however, reports to governments and summaries made to the public about civilian casualties are important, war effects real people with real relatives. Governments should not be allowed to say to the public “We don’t keep records on civilian deaths” if they do.
If they feel that the public does not have a right to the info, thats their choice, they should tell the people “We keep the info but are not willing to share it with you.” The people have a right to know if it exists and what it is.
| 279 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:43:32pm |
re: #273 Dark_Falcon
Yes, there are times when it is acceptable for the government to lie. The right to know is not absolute.
Maybe one day we can compare lists.
Mine won’t take very long ;)
| 280 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:43:34pm |
re: #278 ozbloke
Governments should not be allowed to say to the public “We don’t keep records on civilian deaths” if they do.
I think you’re mistaken on that talking point. The military does keep fairly detailed records on civilian deaths specifically to work on methods to reduce collateral damage. The military does not keep those records for immediate public consumption. We have the Freedom of Information Act here in America. Most government documents are available for public inspection within 20 years.
| 281 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:43:45pm |
Good Night to my fellow Lizards. I am headed to the Star Empire of Manticore. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 282 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:44:12pm |
re: #274 Killgore Trout
While operations are ongoing I expect the publicly released information on things like civilian casualties to be lowball estimates. Our military does keep information of collateral damage precisely because we want to minimize it. Urban warfare is very messy. Especially with an enemy who uses human shields, fights from civilian areas, wears civilian clothing. Has Al Qaeda released their estimates on how many Iraqi civilians they’ve killed? It’s very difficult to minimize civilian deaths when fighting an enemy who wants to increase civilian deaths.
Seems like it might have backfired in Iraq. Backfired for Wikileaks that is:
Iraqi PM criticises timing of Wikileaks disclosure
Iraq’s prime minister has criticised the timing of the release by Wikileaks of almost 400,000 secret US military documents about the conflict there.
Nouri Maliki’s office accused it of trying to sabotage his bid to form a new government by stoking up anger “against national parties and leaders, especially the prime minister”.
Mr Maliki is struggling to keep his job after inconclusive elections in March.
| 283 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:45:02pm |
re: #278 ozbloke
Honestly, I don’t think people feel differently about a hundred thousand civilian Iraqi deaths or two hundred thousand civilian Iraqi deaths. Numbers that large are impossible to really come to grips with.
Another reason I feel that the number-hunting is a foolish past-time is that such data-gathering is always, under the best of circumstances, going to be difficult— and the middle of war is not the best of circumstances. There is no ‘real’ number to be attained. What matters a lot more to me is the actual tactics and strategies that we used, and whether or not they attempted to minimize civilian casualties.
I mean, the US government is allied with regimes that brutally torture, that execute people for free speech. I don’t need Wikileaks to tell me that the US government has blood on its hands, and that by extension, I do. I think Wikileaks could do a lot more good, and stay true to their mission, by publishing documents about what goes on in Saudi Arabia, or in other US allies that are so terrible on human rights.
| 284 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:45:24pm |
Seems like there’s a rather pragmatic or toned down response in Iraq:
The BBC’s Jim Muir in Baghdad says the Wikileaks revelations have attracted relatively little interest among Iraqis, although they triggered an angry response from the office of Prime Minister Maliki.
| 285 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:46:07pm |
re: #274 Killgore Trout
While operations are ongoing I expect the publicly released information on things like civilian casualties to be lowball estimates. Our military does keep information of collateral damage precisely because we want to minimize it. Urban warfare is very messy. Especially with an enemy who uses human shields, fights from civilian areas, wears civilian clothing. Has Al Qaeda released their estimates on how many Iraqi civilians they’ve killed? It’s very difficult to minimize civilian deaths when fighting an enemy who wants to increase civilian deaths.
Killgore,
You seem to spend a lot of time trying to justify that these deaths happen.
You really don’t need to, I’m not arguing against war.
I’m arguing on the one point of civilian deaths in war, the dead deserve respect, a countries people deserve honestly about war.
| 286 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:46:43pm |
re: #282 Gus 802
Seems like it might have backfired in Iraq. Backfired for Wikileaks that is:
Yes, this is potentially very dangerous to the stability of Iraq and I think Wikileaks knows that.
| 287 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:47:33pm |
re: #283 Obdicut
How long did it take to determine the number of deaths at the World Trade Center… IIRC it took weeks… and that was a fairly (for lack of a better word) controlled environment.
| 288 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:48:40pm |
re: #285 ozbloke
Here’s honesty about war:
War means that some 18 year old farm boy from Iowa pulls the trigger because he thinks he sees someone aiming an RPG at his friends, and it turns out to be a woman with a roll of cloth on her shoulder. He never gets over it.
This is why we should think long and hard before committing our troops to war. Not because they can die, though they can, and that is terrible too, but that is well known. Because they may be forced to kill, and a certain amount of that time they will kill, by mistake, civilians. And this will haunt them forever.
| 289 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:49:41pm |
re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Gosh… looked it up… they’re still not 100% sure.
| 290 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:51:09pm |
By the way, the Oklahoma/Mizzou game is a barn burner.
| 291 |
palomino Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:51:54pm |
re: #210 ozbloke
Oh, I get that but it seemed to me that you were arguing my case about how the younger generation could believe government.
Not being from the USA I have always seen your patriotism and not quite understood it.
I’m not sure where it might start and stop for you.
An example, its ok for the government to lie to its people about not keeping records of civilian deaths, because it helps America.
So would it be ok to lie to the people about AGW because it helps the American economy in the near future..
I’m sorry, I want hohesty and integrity from my government, crazy I know…
Couldn’t agree with you more. We as Americans are paying for this war, and it’s being fought in our name. As such, I don’t think the truth is too much to ask from the institutions fighting the war.
The only legitimate excuse for lying to the American public would be to insure the safety of our troops. But that certainly hasn’t been the only context in which we’ve been lied to. If telling us the truth might decrease public support for the war, then what does that tell you about the morality and wisdom of the war in the first place?
Remember back to Vietnam. We didn’t lose that war because our government was too honest or told us too much. They piled lies upon lies, ultimately to no real end.
| 292 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:52:01pm |
From WikiLeaks Founder on the Run, Trailed by Notoriety
Much has changed since 2006, when Mr. Assange, a 39-year-old Australian, used years of computer hacking and what friends call a near genius I.Q. to establish WikiLeaks, redefining whistle-blowing by gathering secrets in bulk, storing them beyond the reach of governments and others determined to retrieve them, then releasing them instantly, and globally.
Now it is not just governments that denounce him: some of his own comrades are abandoning him for what they see as erratic and imperious behavior, and a nearly delusional grandeur unmatched by an awareness that the digital secrets he reveals can have a price in flesh and blood.
Several WikiLeaks colleagues say he alone decided to release the Afghan documents without removing the names of Afghan intelligence sources for NATO troops. “We were very, very upset with that, and with the way he spoke about it afterwards,” said Birgitta Jonsdottir, a core WikiLeaks volunteer and a member of Iceland’s Parliament. “If he could just focus on the important things he does, it would be better.”
Several WikiLeaks colleagues say he alone decided to release the Afghan documents without removing the names of Afghan intelligence sources for NATO troops.
| 293 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:53:19pm |
| 294 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:57:12pm |
re: #288 Obdicut
Here’s honesty about war:
War means that some 18 year old farm boy from Iowa pulls the trigger because he thinks he sees someone aiming an RPG at his friends, and it turns out to be a woman with a roll of cloth on her shoulder. He never gets over it.
This is why we should think long and hard before committing our troops to war. Not because they can die, though they can, and that is terrible too, but that is well known. Because they may be forced to kill, and a certain amount of that time they will kill, by mistake, civilians. And this will haunt them forever.
Well said.
“War is cruelty, you cannot refine it.” - General William Tecumseh Sherman, 1864
| 295 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 5:59:09pm |
re: #294 Dark_Falcon
And did Wikileaks expose the ‘murder squad’ that is the most terrible and shocking thing to come out of Iraq? No. A soldier did that.
That episode really, really shows we do have some systemic problems in the way things are being dealt with over there, though. That wasn’t even a coverup— it was just not even looked at.
| 297 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:03:05pm |
re: #273 Dark_Falcon
Yes, there are times when it is acceptable for the government to lie. The right to know is not absolute.
Moreover, even had the government explained everything it knew, the truth would not have gotten out. The media was pushing a meme highlighted deaths the US could be blamed for and ignored the fact that the great majority of the carnage was inflicted by Al Qaeda in Iraq. They would not have ceased that drumbeat, no matter what the Bush administration said. There was no upside to the truth, it could only have hurt the nation.
I agree that the right to know is not absolute, but to lie, as opposed to declining to say, about civilian deaths during a war is going to require some fancy rhetorical gymnastics…
| 298 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:04:28pm |
re: #292 Gus 802
Assange is a “whistle-blower” of the same mold as the CRU email hacker asshole.
| 299 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:07:24pm |
re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth
Assange is a “whistle-blower” of the same mold as the CRU email hacker asshole.
The word for Assange in Spanish is egoista. The asswipes are getting ready to release another 15,000 SECRET documents pertaining to the Afghanistan War. Secret documents being released during an active military engagement.
| 300 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:08:02pm |
re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth
That is, to be more clear, if the term “whistle-blower” now means liar, cheat, and thief.
| 301 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:08:31pm |
I guess the goal is for them to contribute to failing in Afghanistan.
| 302 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:10:48pm |
re: #299 Gus 802
The word for Assange in Spanish is egoista. The asswipes are getting ready to release another 15,000 SECRET documents pertaining to the Afghanistan War. Secret documents being released during an active military engagement.
He doesn’t care. He just wants attention and to hammer America. He’s a member of the Blame America First crowd.
| 303 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:11:03pm |
re: #300 Slumbering Behemoth
That is, to be more clear, if the term “whistle-blower” now means liar, cheat, and thief.
But of course he’s not even a real whistle-blower. All he is is the “CEO” for an alleged “whistle-blowing” organization. But they scumbags like Bradley Manning is also not a whistle-blower. Typically, a whistle-blower come forward and makes his name public. Bradley Manning didn’t come forward. He was in hiding. I can’t wait for him to be sentenced to 52 years.
| 304 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:11:20pm |
re: #299 Gus 802
The word for Assange in Spanish is egoista. The asswipes are getting ready to release another 15,000 SECRET documents pertaining to the Afghanistan War. Secret documents being released during an active military engagement.
Thus lending credibility to DF’s claim that they are “objectively pro-terrorist”.
| 305 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:12:13pm |
re: #304 Slumbering Behemoth
Thus lending credibility to DF’s claim that they are “objectively pro-terrorist”.
Yes. I see them as being pro-terrorist “by default”. Their position, these leaks, benefit our enemies both foreign and domestic.
| 306 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:12:44pm |
re: #293 HoosierHoops
My father-in-law is from Marlow, OK. Went to OK State but is a Sooner fan.
He hates Bob Stoops with the white hot burning hate of a thousand suns.
He doesn’t blame Obama for the World-wide recession.
He blames Stoops.
| 307 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:14:33pm |
What a joke.
The San Francisco Labor Council has just passed a resolution in support of Iraq war veteran and accused whistleblower Bradley Manning. This important development comes on the heels of a demonstration this past Sunday outside of the Quantico Marine Base in Virginia, where Manning is being held. CNN and other major media outlets gave prominent coverage to the protest, which had participants from ANSWER, Code Pink, Courage to Resist, March Forward!, Veterans for Peace, IVAW-DC and many others…
| 308 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:15:04pm |
“Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me.’”
— George Orwell
/not George Bush
| 309 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:16:48pm |
There’s something to be said about not killing the messenger, but when the messenger (Assange/WikiLeaks, et al) is twisting the facts to fit a predetermined aim (the doctored pics/videos, not redacting sensitive personnel info, etc), I have no sympahty for that.
Let me stress, however, that I don’t want physical harm to come to Assange or anyone at WikiLeaks. But, if they broke the law in doing what they did, I want Assange and anyone who gave material assistance to his efforts prosecuted to the fullest extent of US law.
That said, I can’t help but have some feelings of schadenfreude over his paranoia that someone’s after him, lurking in the shadows…he’s brought it on himself.
| 310 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:17:00pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
Again I say, I long for the day that “The Stupid” stops burning and starts instantly vaporizing.
| 311 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:17:44pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
What a joke.
The Bad Craziness of the far-left continues unabated in San Fran. It’s not the whole city or even most of it, but SF does have a higher number of moonbats than the national average and many of those moonbats are rabid.
| 312 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:18:19pm |
Interesting that all the outrage is reserved for the Wikileaks guy, without any questions about how or why he came into possession of the material in question in the first place. At risk of wading into Alex Jones waters, I wonder if we’re expected to believe that Bradley Manning was the only guy who leaked classified documents.
And by the way, US military: if it’s gonna burn your ass for people to find out that you turned a blind eye towards Iraqi MPs torturing and/or summarily executing “detainees”, why don’t you just come on out and say that these things are gonna happen instead of denying that it’s even possible.
| 313 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:19:13pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
What a joke.
Fucking UGGGHHH…I would love nothing better than Manning to be breaking lots of rocks into smaller rocks in Leavenworth for at least a couple of decades.
| 314 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:20:11pm |
re: #313 talon_262
Fucking UGGGHHH…I would love nothing better than Manning to be breaking lots of rocks into smaller rocks in Leavenworth for at least a couple of decades.
I’d like to see their reaction if someone blew the whistle on the
San Francisco Labor Council and released their secret documents. Freedom of speech man!!11ty
| 315 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:20:50pm |
re: #302 Dark_Falcon
He doesn’t care. He just wants attention and to hammer America. He’s a member of the Blame America First crowd.
Keep telling yourself that.
| 316 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:21:04pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
The Bad Craziness of the far-left continues unabated in San Fran. It’s not the whole city or even most of it, but SF does have a higher number of moonbats than the national average and many of those moonbats are rabid.
Extremist on both ends are whacked. These cases remind me of the lunacy on the far left. They haven’t changed one bit over the years and are now lying dormant much like the far right was dormant during the Bush years.
| 317 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:21:54pm |
re: #306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My father-in-law is from Marlow, OK. Went to OK State but is a Sooner fan.
He hates Bob Stoops with the white hot burning hate of a thousand suns.
He doesn’t blame Obama for the World-wide recession.
He blames Stoops.
I really like OU…So does Winston..When I walk him on Campus all the girls stop and pet him and coo over his cuteness…
Good boy Winston..Good boy..
/
| 318 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:22:01pm |
re: #312 negativ
If someone steals something from me, something that could get many people killed, then passes that off to someone who releases it to the world, who should I be more angry at? Should I even bother trying to determine who I should be more angry at?
| 319 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:22:33pm |
re: #297 negativ
I’m reading Rising Tide, about the great flood of the Mississippi in 1927, and it’s packed with examples of the powerful men in possession of information lying to the general populace about a situation that could kill them. Herbert Hoover, in charge of the emergency response, claimed no deaths had occurred on his watch, when he knew that was false, simply to burnish his image as an efficient manager.
I think most people simply make the calculation that their interests in the moment are better served by them controlling what they know, even if their control is temporary or nonexistent.
| 320 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:23:11pm |
re: #312 negativ
Interesting that all the outrage is reserved for the Wikileaks guy, without any questions about how or why he came into possession of the material in question in the first place. At risk of wading into Alex Jones waters, I wonder if we’re expected to believe that Bradley Manning was the only guy who leaked classified documents.
And by the way, US military: if it’s gonna burn your ass for people to find out that you turned a blind eye towards Iraqi MPs torturing and/or summarily executing “detainees”, why don’t you just come on out and say that these things are gonna happen instead of denying that it’s even possible.
Manning (and any other member of the US military who leaked this stuff to Assange) should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the UCMJ and federal law…I’d love for them to be breaking big rocks into piles of smaller rocks in Leavenworth for a long time, if indeed proven guilty.
| 321 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:23:36pm |
re: #312 negativ
That part is insane. I couldn’t believe that we were denying such things were going on. Did people really think the Iraqis all suddenly felt the milk of human kindness spill forth in their hearts, read the US constitution, and forswore torture and vengeance? During a time period where even we, who should have been better than that, were torturing people?
That was nuts. Of course there was going to be rampant abuse by the Iraqis. We didn’t have enough people to keep them from doing otherwise. We didn’t really care enough, either. We didn’t invade for humanitarian reasons, not at all.
| 322 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:24:15pm |
re: #314 Gus 802
I’d like to see their reaction if someone blew the whistle on the
San Francisco Labor Council and released their secret documents. Freedom of speech man!!11ty
That wouldn’t be too bad. Given that it’s San Francisco, most of what you’d find would just be sex scandals and moonbattery.
If you dug up secret documents on a labor council in Chicago, you’d probably be digging up literal bodies by the end of your search.
/Mostly kidding
| 323 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:24:22pm |
re: #312 negativ
Interesting that all the outrage is reserved for the Wikileaks guy, without any questions about how or why he came into possession of the material in question in the first place. At risk of wading into Alex Jones waters, I wonder if we’re expected to believe that Bradley Manning was the only guy who leaked classified documents.
And by the way, US military: if it’s gonna burn your ass for people to find out that you turned a blind eye towards Iraqi MPs torturing and/or summarily executing “detainees”, why don’t you just come on out and say that these things are gonna happen instead of denying that it’s even possible.
No doubt there are more people than Bradley Manning. However, he’s in custody and is suspected, much through his own admission, to being the primary provider of the leaked information. He knew very well his responsibilities as a soldier in the US Army and this is why he took the oath when charged with those responsibilities. He can’t back out of them now.
| 324 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:26:12pm |
re: #323 Gus 802
No doubt there are more people than Bradley Manning. However, he’s in custody and is suspected, much through his own admission, to being the primary provider of the leaked information. He knew very well his responsibilities as a soldier in the US Army and this is why he took the oath when charged with those responsibilities. He can’t back out of them now.
Manning will be very lucky if he’s not brought up on espionage and treason charges (though treason will be very hard to prove, as it should be)..
| 325 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:26:26pm |
re: #322 Dark_Falcon
That wouldn’t be too bad. Given that it’s San Francisco, most of what you’d find would just be sex scandals and moonbattery.
If you dug up secret documents on a labor council in Chicago, you’d probably be digging up literal bodies by the end of your search.
/Mostly kidding
Eeek! Look at this:
[Link: sflaborcouncil.org…]
See, that’s why I’m reluctant to “re-up” with the Democrats. Think I’ll stay right here in the middle. :)
| 326 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:26:31pm |
re: #315 negativ
Keep telling yourself that.
I’m gonna keep telling everyone that, because its true.
| 327 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:28:19pm |
re: #325 Gus 802
Eeek! Look at this:
[Link: sflaborcouncil.org…]
See, that’s why I’m reluctant to “re-up” with the Democrats. Think I’ll stay right here in the middle. :)
Note. I say “eeek” not because of the content of that page as presented but because they decided to support the treasonous (allegedly ;) soldier, Manning.
| 328 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:29:12pm |
re: #327 Gus 802
I thought you were just “eek”ing over the site design. Bleh.
| 329 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:29:32pm |
re: #328 Slumbering Behemoth
I thought you were just “eek”ing over the site design. Bleh.
Bronco’s colors! /
| 330 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:30:00pm |
Quick question for you folks, I’m hearing a lot of talk about about an edited video, but the only story I can track down is the Apache gunship shooting the rueters photographers story, in which the only edit (the removal of 20 minutes of film in the middle of the tape) was done before wiki leaks got the film. Am I missing anything?
| 331 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:31:20pm |
re: #328 Slumbering Behemoth
I thought you were just “eek”ing over the site design. Bleh.
Here it is in PDF form:
Resolution in Support of Bradley Manning
Whereas, 40 years after the release of the Pentagon Papers, the government is now trying to criminalize, intimidate and repress those who tell the truth about U.S. war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq; and…
Blah, blah, blah. He’s an active duty soldier.
| 332 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:31:45pm |
re: #317 HoosierHoops
LOL!
*waves*
At Winston!
| 333 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:31:56pm |
re: #325 Gus 802
Think I’ll stay right here in the middle.
“You have to pick a side!”
“Don’t be so wishy-washy!”
“Standing in the middle of the road will get you run over!”
“Other non-equivalent analogies characterizing politics in black and white!!11th”
| 336 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:35:17pm |
re: #335 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You’re awesome, bro. Almost didn’t recognize you with that new avatar there. Hope things are looking up for you, my good man.
| 337 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:35:48pm |
re: #333 Slumbering Behemoth
“You have to pick a side!”
“Don’t be so wishy-washy!”
“Standing in the middle of the road will get you run over!”
“Other non-equivalent analogies characterizing politics in black and white!!11th”
Dropkick Murphys—Which side are you on?
| 338 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:37:01pm |
re: #336 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks… standing on the edge… facing the wind… ready for whatever is next.
| 339 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:38:30pm |
Have any of you actually spent the time to read some of these documents?
[Link: warlogs.wikileaks.org…]
I’d like to hear some more discussion about what is actually in them (i.e. the stuff that matters) rather than the discussion of if the release was proper etc.
Where would we be without the release of documents in our history? Pentagon Papers, Nixon Tapes, Kennedy tapes (Bay of Pigs) et al?
We’d be in the dark, with a maybe too powerful military. That’s not where I want to be in our democracy.
| 340 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:38:31pm |
re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Stay strong, bro. I’d mail you some cake if I could, but I don’t have any.
/I don’t even eat that stuff on my birthday.
| 342 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:39:44pm |
re: #339 Stanley Sea
That’s not where I want to be in our democracy.
Representative Republic, but point taken. Even if I don’t fully agree with you.
| 343 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:39:53pm |
re: #339 Stanley Sea
Have any of you actually spent the time to read some of these documents?
[Link: warlogs.wikileaks.org…]
I’d like to hear some more discussion about what is actually in them (i.e. the stuff that matters) rather than the discussion of if the release was proper etc.
Where would we be without the release of documents in our history? Pentagon Papers, Nixon Tapes, Kennedy tapes (Bay of Pigs) et al?
We’d be in the dark, with a maybe too powerful military. That’s not where I want to be in our democracy.
Do you think we should release all information to the public regarding our current engagement in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
| 344 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:40:29pm |
re: #343 Gus 802
Do you think we should release all information to the public regarding our current engagement in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
By all I mean classified information. Troop counts, base locations, reports, informants, etc.
| 346 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:42:46pm |
re: #343 Gus 802
Do you think we should release all information to the public regarding our current engagement in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
I don’t think we should release anything. BUT if it’s found and published, we should read it. WUB was discussing this earlier. It’s a natural progress, and we should pay attention when we are able to see what’s been going on in our name.
A lot of shitty stuff in my opinion. Yeah, war is hell. I hated this war from day one & I’m not going to change that opinion. These docs just prove how hellish and horrid the whole event was.
| 347 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:44:07pm |
re: #346 Stanley Sea
I don’t think we should release anything. BUT if it’s found and published, we should read it. WUB was discussing this earlier. It’s a natural progress, and we should pay attention when we are able to see what’s been going on in our name.
A lot of shitty stuff in my opinion. Yeah, war is hell. I hated this war from day one & I’m not going to change that opinion. These docs just prove how hellish and horrid the whole event was.
Oh, that. Well that’s a little different. Now that it’s out there it’s kind of hard to avoid.
| 348 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:44:10pm |
I would be very interested to hear what everyone has to say about this:
| 349 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:47:07pm |
re: #343 Gus 802
Do you think we should release all information to the public regarding our current engagement in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
Stuff wasn’t released, it was leaked. The guy who leaked it will face his lumps, and our grandkids will decide whether he was Benedict Arnold or Nathan Hale. If they care.
| 350 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:47:43pm |
re: #339 Stanley Sea
From what I’ve read it’s same old, same old. Quite a bit of this stuff was already broadly known, this just provides detailed confirmation. I don’t think this rises to the level of the pentagon papers, there is no high level overview that was unknown to the American public, with the possible exception of the extent of Iranian involvement.
What becomes clear is that the military deliberately sanitizes the war, both the actual combat and the unintentional fuck ups of the Us military. The issue with this is that we know the US does this, and has been doing this since at least 1896, if not earlier. I think the real damage this is going to do is in terms of military contractors, a whole bunch of this stuff is related to specific companies, and that’s going to do some serious damage to their reputations. IMO this is probably a good thing, we’ve been too reliant on contractors to carry out military operations because of an unwillingness on the part of the military to admit how large a commitment these wars actually are. I would like military doctrine to take a hard turn away from private security forces.
| 351 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:48:09pm |
re: #346 Stanley Sea
I don’t think we should release anything. BUT if it’s found and published, we should read it. WUB was discussing this earlier. It’s a natural progress, and we should pay attention when we are able to see what’s been going on in our name.
A lot of shitty stuff in my opinion. Yeah, war is hell. I hated this war from day one & I’m not going to change that opinion. These docs just prove how hellish and horrid the whole event was.
Evenin Sea :)
History is fine, but ongoing battles, probably not so much. First for the protection of our soldiers, but also because it’s difficult, if not impossible for civilians to interpret it in the right context.
| 352 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:48:30pm |
re: #339 Stanley Sea
Have any of you actually spent the time to read some of these documents?
[Link: warlogs.wikileaks.org…]
I’d like to hear some more discussion about what is actually in them (i.e. the stuff that matters) rather than the discussion of if the release was proper etc.
Where would we be without the release of documents in our history? Pentagon Papers, Nixon Tapes, Kennedy tapes (Bay of Pigs) et al?
We’d be in the dark, with a maybe too powerful military. That’s not where I want to be in our democracy.
I’m a firm believer that sunshine is the best disinfectant and that our government (including the military) should not exist in a vacuum. But, when you’re talking about releasing a metric shit-ton of information on current military operations that contains stuff that could compromise missions and get soldiers hurt/killed, I’d argue for a hell of a lot more restraint and discretion…of which Assange and WikiLeaks showing neither.
| 353 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:49:11pm |
re: #349 Decatur Deb
Stuff wasn’t released, it was leaked. The guy who leaked it will face his lumps, and our grandkids will decide whether he was Benedict Arnold or Nathan Hale. If they care.
Leaked! Right. I’m sure he’ll get a fair trial. At least I hope he does. If found guilty, well I’ve already expressed my feelings about that.
| 354 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:49:27pm |
re: #339 Stanley Sea
I think the Pentagon Papers & Nixon Tapes were political shenanigans.
Putting soldiers lives at risk, by leaking classified documents, is different.
Yes, war is hell.
The folks who are fighting, deserve our support, in EVERY way.
If that means suppressing documents, until they can be reviewed, well, so be it. If even ONE Afghani soldier is killed, because of these documents, then, releasing them is wrong.
Releasing these documents accomplishes what?
| 355 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:50:00pm |
re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m not sure any reasonable, sane people would have a problem with stopping someone from publishing stolen, classified information.
I’ve thought a lot about this, and it’s not sane, reasonable people I’m necessarily concerned with, but FOX News watching Tea Party “freedom fighters.” There’s just no way that you’re going to convince those people that an Obama DOD engaging in prior restraint of the free press would be okay. Consistency isn’t a virtue for these people, it won’t matter that last week they hated Assange for endangering our allies and soldiers, they’d jump all over any excuse to rail against the perception of encroaching totalitarianism. A Republican President might be able to get away with it, maybe, but I think you credit the public with far too much rationality, integrity, and intelligence.
| 356 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:50:03pm |
re: #353 Gus 802
I hope Santa puts a lump of coal in his stocking this year. The bastard.
| 357 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:50:26pm |
re: #350 BishopX
From what I’ve read it’s same old, same old. Quite a bit of this stuff was already broadly known, this just provides detailed confirmation. I don’t think this rises to the level of the pentagon papers, there is no high level overview that was unknown to the American public, with the possible exception of the extent of Iranian involvement.
What becomes clear is that the military deliberately sanitizes the war, both the actual combat and the unintentional fuck ups of the Us military. The issue with this is that we know the US does this, and has been doing this since at least 1896, if not earlier. I think the real damage this is going to do is in terms of military contractors, a whole bunch of this stuff is related to specific companies, and that’s going to do some serious damage to their reputations. IMO this is probably a good thing, we’ve been too reliant on contractors to carry out military operations because of an unwillingness on the part of the military to admit how large a commitment these wars actually are. I would like military doctrine to take a hard turn away from private security forces.
Oh how I do concur. These companies got rich (remember the missing pallets of $$???) over bodies.
| 358 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:50:53pm |
re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth
I hope Santa puts a lump of coal in his stocking this year. The bastard.
Or maybe a holiday in the tropics.
Gitmo!
/
| 359 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:51:21pm |
re: #350 BishopX
We need contractors. Without them we’d have to keep a much larger logistical tail in place as a standing force. Contractors let us call up that tail only when we need it (which likely saves money in the long run) and allows the troops to focus on fighting and winning.
| 360 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:52:23pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
We need contractors. Without them we’d have to keep a much larger logistical tail in place as a standing force. Contractors let us call up that tail only when we need it (which likely saves money in the long run) and allows the troops to focus on fighting and winning.
BULLSHIT
(hello DF)
| 361 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:53:07pm |
Fight with the army you have. Face up to realities.
Contractors have no control or ethics beyond the might DOD dollar.
| 362 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:54:18pm |
re: #355 goddamnedfrank
I’ve thought a lot about this, and it’s not sane, reasonable people I’m necessarily concerned with, but FOX News watching Tea Party “freedom fighters.”
Well, I’m sure you could predict this response, but fuck them.
I think you credit the public with far too much rationality, integrity, and intelligence.
Perhaps, but when the biggest ratings getting, conspiracy mongering blowhard on Fox (Beck) gets peak ratings which equal roughly one to two percent of the American population, you may just be giving them too little credit.
| 363 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:55:35pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
We need contractors. Without them we’d have to keep a much larger logistical tail in place as a standing force. Contractors let us call up that tail only when we need it (which likely saves money in the long run) and allows the troops to focus on fighting and winning.
We’ve been hearing a lot about the high pay of Fed employees. Vastly expanded contracting-out is the driving force behind the salaries of the shrunken Fed workforce. The legions of typists and wrench-turners are long gone. Half the workers now are senior people trying to ride herd on expanding contractors. (and trying to find someone who knows how to load the copier.)
| 364 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:56:52pm |
Hey Floral, great page you just posted!
| 365 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:57:00pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
We need contractors. Without them we’d have to keep a much larger logistical tail in place as a standing force. Contractors let us call up that tail only when we need it (which likely saves money in the long run) and allows the troops to focus on fighting and winning.
How many wars have we used contractors in, how many haven’t we?
(Not as up to date on military matters as I should be….)
| 366 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:57:02pm |
re: #360 Stanley Sea
BULLSHIT
(hello DF)
Why is that bullshit? What’s wrong with contracting out the cooking and cleaning, to free our troops up to fight?
| 367 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:57:52pm |
re: #361 Stanley Sea
There are good actors and bad actors in that field, but they provide necessary services. Call them a necessary evil if you must, but they should not all be lumped as blood profiteers.
The ones that fuck up should get hammered, though. That does not seem to be happening to most people’s satisfaction.
| 368 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:57:57pm |
re: #361 Stanley Sea
Fight with the army you have. Face up to realities.
Contractors have no control or ethics beyond the might DOD dollar.
Very true.
| 369 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:58:50pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
re: #360 Stanley Sea
I agree that contractors can more helpful and cost-effective in doing a lot of the logistics stuff that REMFs have done in the past (base construction/upkeep, food service, etc.), if they’re held to the same standards that they would be here in the States (remember the KB&R wiring disasters in some Iraqi bases that hurt and killed soldiers?).
Contractors (like Blackwater) should never be used in place of combat troops, even for executive protection, in the middle of a combat zone…they’re are just many more negatives than positives there.
| 370 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:59:20pm |
re: #365 jamesfirecat
How many wars have we used contractors in, how many haven’t we?
(Not as up to date on military matters as I should be…)
The Union reconnaisance balloon force in the civil war was a contract operation. That war also brought the term “shoddy” into the language. It was the name of a Northern contract supplier, or so the story goes.
| 371 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:59:31pm |
re: #364 Stanley Sea
Hey Floral, great page you just posted!
LOL!
You should see the right wing nut o sphere comments!
Frothing at the mouth, they are!
*waves*
| 372 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:59:46pm |
There was the contractors and the private security contractors provided to protect the contractors. I suppose the private security could have been replaced with regular troops.
| 373 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:59:52pm |
re: #365 jamesfirecat
How many wars have we used contractors in, how many haven’t we?
(Not as up to date on military matters as I should be…)
We used them in every war except World War I. Their importance has varied, but even in WWII they ran the hospitality facilities overseas. Lately, they’ve been used to handle logistical matters formerly handled by uniformed soldiers.
| 374 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:00:23pm |
re: #366 Dark_Falcon
Because they never do it right, and because we need everyone in a combat zone to be combat ready.
Think of the Battle of the Bulge. Think of the defense put up by clerk typists, by cooks, by quartermasters. They were only able to do that because they were part of the military.
Given the massive inflation of charges from the contractors that we’ve seen, I don’t think there’s any way we can claim it saves us money.
Also:
[Link: www.thetandd.com…]
The profit motive that contractors runs by doesn’t value the lives of soldiers very highly.
| 375 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:00:52pm |
re: #367 Slumbering Behemoth
There are good actors and bad actors in that field, but they provide necessary services. Call them a necessary evil if you must, but they should not all be lumped as blood profiteers.
The ones that fuck up should get hammered, though. That does not seem to be happening to most people’s satisfaction.
In Israel, I worked for our US Defense Contract Management Command. Contractors are as good as the force that oversees them.
| 376 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:00:56pm |
| 377 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:01:38pm |
re: #366 Dark_Falcon
Why is that bullshit? What’s wrong with contracting out the cooking and cleaning, to free our troops up to fight?
Electrocutions due to shoddy work, and getting ripped off for the price of every meal.
We’ve lost more $$ (and lives) using these for-profit war contractors.
| 378 |
Political Atheist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:03:36pm |
re: #374 Obdicut
Agreed.
May we please remember the senseless losses from electrocutions at bases?
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]
[Link: articles.cnn.com…]
| 379 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:04:16pm |
re: #377 Stanley Sea
Electrocutions due to shoddy work, and getting ripped off for the price of every meal.
We’ve lost more $$ (and lives) using these for-profit war contractors.
That might be more a reflection of the no-bid process rather than the use of contractors itself. Had it been open-bid the results would have been better?
| 380 |
Political Atheist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:05:49pm |
| 381 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:06:55pm |
re: #377 Stanley Sea
re: #378 Rightwingconspirator
Indeed, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Hammer the ones that fuck up, and hammer them hard. But don’t punish the ones that actually do their fucking job right.*
*a co-worker of mine at an old company would always say that to me, jokingly, “Do your fucking job right”.
| 382 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:07:30pm |
re: #379 Gus 802
That might be more a reflection of the no-bid process rather than the use of contractors itself. Had it been open-bid the results would have been better?
It would have been better if we did it all ourselves, in our regulated military.
Might not be easy, but shit, it’s real.
The whole Iraq war was a farce in my mind. Keeping it off the budget, using contractors.
If it was (at the time) analyzed correctly, it was a no-go. But noooo, they figured out how to do it. To our shame and regret. Mine at least.
| 383 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:08:13pm |
re: #379 Gus 802
That might be more a reflection of the no-bid process rather than the use of contractors itself. Had it been open-bid the results would have been better?
More likely because we allow host-nation subcontractors to do the actual work. I doubt any American hands installed those circuits. Haliburton was the prime, and took its cut off the top, then didn’t properly QC the work.
| 384 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:08:49pm |
re: #381 Slumbering Behemoth
re: #378 Rightwingconspirator
Indeed, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Hammer the ones that fuck up, and hammer them hard. But don’t punish the ones that actually do their fucking job right.*
*a co-worker of mine at an old company would always say that to me, jokingly, “Do your fucking job right”.
I gotcha on that one. Problem is, we only hear the bad. I know there are good contractors out there who did their job for fair pay.
I still want to know where the $$$ on the pallets went.
| 385 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:10:07pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
Sorry DF. I have yet to see any of these contracting companies do a better job than the men and women of the Army. Every contract with these companies should be allowed to expire and not be renewed. And yes, the military needs to be able to fight on its own without having to worry about the profit margin of a mercenary company providing POL, Supply & chow.
| 386 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:10:46pm |
re: #382 Stanley Sea
The whole Iraq war was a farce in my mind. Keeping it off the budget, using contractors.
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a “farce”, but I do think there are many lessons we can learn from this whole enterprise.
We’re changing, the world is changing. Trying to manage that process by military means is, well, traditional. Yet wanting to do large military operations now is so very costly that we frankly can’t afford them. One might claim that we can’t afford to not do them, in some bigger sociopolitical sense, but that argument too is fraught with difficulties.
| 387 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:14:33pm |
Well I done fucked up and made a mess. Got a stove top to clean now. Catch you folks laters.
| 388 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:16:14pm |
re: #370 Decatur Deb
The Union reconnaisance balloon force in the civil war was a contract operation. That war also brought the term “shoddy” into the language. It was the name of a Northern contract supplier, or so the story goes.
For accuracy, I just fact-checked myself. The word “shoddy” was not from the contractor name. but from the the amount of waste (shoddy) material the contractor included in army blankets.
| 389 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:18:16pm |
Phew! I got you off of Assange bashing!!! :)
| 390 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:18:18pm |
re: #385 wlewisiii
Sorry DF. I have yet to see any of these contracting companies do a better job than the men and women of the Army. Every contract with these companies should be allowed to expire and not be renewed. And yes, the military needs to be able to fight on its own without having to worry about the profit margin of a mercenary company providing POL, Supply & chow.
I disagree. Proper oversight can keep contractors honest. And it’s easier to get them than to use soldiers to handle those tasks. If we tried to use soldiers to fill those roles we’d end up cutting combat forces to shift troops back to supply tasks because we couldn’t find all the troops we needed.
| 392 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:20:42pm |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. Proper oversight can keep contractors honest. And it’s easier to get them than to use soldiers to handle those tasks. If we tried to use soldiers to fill those roles we’d end up cutting combat forces to shift troops back to supply tasks because we couldn’t find all the troops we needed.
Well, that’s a problem!!! Face it. Fix it. Don’t get ripped off and lose control.
| 393 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:21:01pm |
There’s this:
[Link: www.nashvillepost.com…]
Soldiers claim war zone contractors exposed them to toxins
That’s the central allegation in a new set of lawsuits filed in Nashville and elsewhere across the country. The legal actions name as defendants the controversial contracting firm KBR Inc. (formerly Kellogg Brown and Root), as well as Halliburton Co., of which KBR used to be a subsidiary, and a Turkish general contracting firm, ERKA Ltd.
This:
[Link: www.business-humanrights.org…]
Iraq Contractor Sued for Human Trafficking
The plaintiffs claimed that the 13 men were initially recruited in Nepal to work in hotels and restaurants in Amman, Jordan. Instead, they alleged that a Daoud & Partners representative seized their passports after they arrived in Jordan, and that they were later trafficked into Iraq to work at a US military facility.
The Blackwater lawsuit against the company when 4 contractors were murdered. Remember? Their bodies were burned and strung up on a bridge?
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]
In the lawsuit, the families accuse Blackwater of:
# Failing to adequately gather intelligence for the travel route, conduct a pre-route inspection and failed to supply the contractors with maps of the area;
# Not adequately staffing the security detail teams for the contractors;
# Not arming the convoy with proper weapons;
# Failing to provide armored vehicles for the contractors;
# Not sending the civilians workers to the Middle East with enough time before the mission to familiarize themselves with the region;
# And, failing to give at least 24-hour notice of the security mission.
| 394 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:22:17pm |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. Proper oversight can keep contractors honest. And it’s easier to get them than to use soldiers to handle those tasks. If we tried to use soldiers to fill those roles we’d end up cutting combat forces to shift troops back to supply tasks because we couldn’t find all the troops we needed.
The cost of the very effective all-volunteer army is staggering compared to the draft grunts. Every Soldier now comes with about 3 dependants. For example, An airborne division needs about 1000 very expensive child care spaces.
| 395 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:22:35pm |
Tennessee:
Tenn. mosque opponents say Islam violent
MURFREESBORO, Tenn., Oct. 23 (UPI) — Much of a hearing on a proposed Tennessee mosque has focused on whether Islam is a religion and whether the mosque’s backers want Shariah law.
Three residents of the area around the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro challenged a Rutherford County planning board decision to allow its construction. County Chancellor Robert Corlew began a hearing in September and has presided over six days of argument and testimony, The Murfreesboro Daily News Journal reported.
On Friday, Lisa Moore, one of the three plaintiffs, said local officials should investigate the people behind the mosque.
“The problem is with Shariah law,” she said. “The religion part is less than 30 percent. The rest of it is about killing non-believers.”
When her lawyer, Joe Brandon, asked her if she knew Islam was responsible for 278 million executions since its founding, she responded, “Yes.”
Sheriff’s detective Randy Groce testified that a burial at the mosque site in which a biodegradable bag was used instead of a coffin was legal.
“They have a belief in a deity,” Groce replied when Brandon asked him if Islam is a religion.
The hearing continues Nov. 12.
| 396 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:23:36pm |
| 397 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:23:40pm |
re: #388 Decatur Deb
Interesting early form of recycling:
Shoddy is the name given to an inferior woollen yarn made by shredding scraps of woollen rags into fibres, grinding them and then mixing them with small amounts of new wool. The object was to manufacture a cheap cloth which could be made into products and clothes. It was also known as Rag-Wool. An even finer shredding process produced what was called Mungo.
[Link: quezi.com…]
| 398 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:25:30pm |
re: #395 freetoken
Tennessee:
As a Nashvillian, I hope that Lisa Moore, her cohorts, and their lawyers DIAF (metaphorically speaking)….
| 399 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:26:01pm |
re: #392 Stanley Sea
Well, that’s a problem!!! Face it. Fix it. Don’t get ripped off and lose control.
There’s no fix. We’d need more soldiers than we could recruit without lower standards or drastically upping wages. A cook doesn’t need to be fit to fight, he just needs to cook.
| 400 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:26:30pm |
| 401 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:28:19pm |
re: #399 Dark_Falcon
We could improve oversight a great deal by re-establishing employment barriers between retired Senior officers and contractors. It is far too generous to say it invites corruption.
| 402 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:29:40pm |
re: #400 Stanley Sea
I’m reading more about shoddy and mungo in google books:
The name of the article in question, viz., “Mungo” may appear a very odd one to persons not accustomed to it for though the term is understood in the trade it appears very unmeaning and to have no necessary or natural affinity with the commodity designated; the origin of the term “mungo” is said to be this: one of the dealers in the newly discovered material was pushing the sale of a small quantity when doubts were expressed as to its likelihood to sell to which the possessor replied with emphasis “It mun go” meaning it must go.
[Link: books.google.co.uk…]
| 403 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:29:40pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
The Bad Craziness of the far-left continues unabated in San Fran. It’s not the whole city or even most of it, but SF does have a higher number of moonbats than the national average and many of those moonbats are rabid.
God knows, it couldn’t happen in any other city…
Yeah, we got lefties in SF, but we really, really, are not anything special, compared to Knoxville, TN, or Talkeetna, AK.
| 404 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:29:42pm |
re: #399 Dark_Falcon
If our armed forces are incapable of doing something as simple as cooking for themselves, maybe we should consider drafting some cooks.
| 405 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:30:20pm |
re: #399 Dark_Falcon
There’s no fix. We’d need more soldiers than we could recruit without lower standards or drastically upping wages. A cook doesn’t need to be fit to fight, he just needs to cook.
It’s not like we’ll ever be able to get it 100 correct. The reason being that we don’t engage in nation RE-building very often.
| 406 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:31:30pm |
re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
God knows, it couldn’t happen in any other city…
www.bradleymanning.org...]>www.bradleymanning.org…]>
Yeah, we got lefties in SF, but we really, really, are not anything special, compared to Knoxville, TN, or Talkeetna, AK.
Oh brother. I think I’m going to puke.
| 407 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:31:42pm |
re: #395 freetoken
Tennessee:
The Imam in Tennessee was on Christianne Amanpour’s special a few weeks ago. His mosque is the one that was vandalized. Who are the violent ones?
| 408 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:32:44pm |
re: #407 marjoriemoon
The Imam in Tennessee was on Christianne Amanpour’s special a few weeks ago. His mosque is the one that was vandalized. Who are the violent ones?
Excellent point. Zing!
| 409 |
Mich-again Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:32:45pm |
I like that note in the bottom corner..
WE DO HAVE A TITLE FOR THIS THRILLER… HONESTLY !! BUT, JOLLY JACK DIDN’T LEAVE US ANY ROOM TO LETTER IT!
Jolly Jack was a rebel.
| 410 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:33:11pm |
re: #397 jaunte
LOL!
I have rag rugs in my house!
I like them!
| 411 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:33:19pm |
re: #404 BishopX
If our armed forces are incapable of doing something as simple as cooking for themselves, maybe we should consider drafting some cooks.
One of my jobs was to visit very small (40-80 man) Army detachments in remote, isolated places. The cook was the most important civilian hire on post. The prize was to hire an ex-Navy cook, especially from the BB’s and the carriers.
| 412 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:34:46pm |
re: #410 Floral Giraffe
I suspect mungo was named by a man who was missing some important teeth.
| 413 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:35:14pm |
re: #407 marjoriemoon
The UPI story I copied only has some of the good stuff. The original report has some real doozies in it… worthy of a Page entry.
| 414 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:35:32pm |
re: #404 BishopX
If our armed forces are incapable of doing something as simple as cooking for themselves, maybe we should consider drafting some cooks.
It’s not that simple. The troops don’t rotate most of those logistical duties on a short term basis. If soldiers are driving the trucks, that means the soldiers in that transport company are not going to be fighting.
One other useful aspect of contracting, is that it allows our supplies to be brought through countries were convoys of American troops would be unacceptable.
| 415 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:36:49pm |
re: #395 freetoken
Tennessee:
My SIL lives outside Nashville. She is so pissed off about this whole thing.
| 416 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:38:18pm |
re: #415 SanFranciscoZionist
My SIL lives outside Nashville. She is so pissed off about this whole thing.
What a small world…I just happen to be in Nashville!
;-P
| 417 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:39:05pm |
re: #413 freetoken
The UPI story I copied only has some of the good stuff. The original report has some real doozies in it… worthy of a Page entry.
Yea, it was pretty thin. Actually I didn’t understand it, but it seems they want to build a center? They do have a mosque in Murfreesboro. Maybe more than one.
| 418 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:39:25pm |
re: #395 freetoken
Tennessee:
When her lawyer, Joe Brandon, asked her if she knew Islam was responsible for 278 million executions since its founding, she responded, “Yes.”
1. How in God’s name are they calculating that? If you were sentenced to death by a Cordoba court in 1200 for murdering your brother-in-law, are you part of that 278 million?
2. What are the numbers for Christianity?
3. What are the numbers for Hinduism?
These people are beyond stupid. The Nazis would have had a field day with them.
| 419 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:40:15pm |
re: #407 marjoriemoon
On Friday, Lisa Moore, one of the three plaintiffs, said local officials should investigate the people behind the mosque.
“The problem is with Shariah law,” she said. “The religion part is less than 30 percent. The rest of it is about killing non-believers.”
Lisa sounds like she’s been reading too much Geller. I don’t see how Tennessee is under any threat to be ruled by sharia.
Aasif Mandvi (Daily Show) to Tennessee Muslims:
“Thirty years? What is taking so long? I mean, let’s go people. I mean, you’re not a sleeper cell. You’re a comatose cell!”
| 420 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:40:38pm |
re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
God knows, it couldn’t happen in any other city…
www.bradleymanning.org...]>www.bradleymanning.org…]>
Yeah, we got lefties in SF, but we really, really, are not anything special, compared to Knoxville, TN, or Talkeetna, AK.
(This should not be taken as fondness for the SF Labor Council, who have hacked me a few times before this Manning thing came up, even.)
| 421 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:40:55pm |
re: #412 jaunte
I suspect mungo was named by a man who was missing some important teeth.
I dunno about that, but here’s some Mungo Jerry for ya…
;-)
| 422 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:41:13pm |
re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist
When her lawyer, Joe Brandon, asked her if she knew Islam was responsible for 278 million executions since its founding, she responded, “Yes.”
1. How in God’s name are they calculating that? If you were sentenced to death by a Cordoba court in 1200 for murdering your brother-in-law, are you part of that 278 million?
2. What are the numbers for Christianity?
3. What are the numbers for Hinduism?
These people are beyond stupid. The Nazis would have had a field day with them.
It this a hearing with sworn testimony?
| 423 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:42:15pm |
re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist
When her lawyer, Joe Brandon, asked her if she knew Islam was responsible for 278 million executions since its founding, she responded, “Yes.”
1. How in God’s name are they calculating that? If you were sentenced to death by a Cordoba court in 1200 for murdering your brother-in-law, are you part of that 278 million?
2. What are the numbers for Christianity?
3. What are the numbers for Hinduism?
These people are beyond stupid. The Nazis would have had a field day with them.
By wingnut logic, if the court used sharia it’s “murder by Islam”. If it’s Islamic, it’s intrinsically evil and must be rejected entirely. So sayeth Shrieky.
| 424 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:42:57pm |
re: #419 jaunte
Lisa sounds like she’s been reading too much Geller. I don’t see how Tennessee is under any threat to be ruled by sharia.
Aasif Mandvi (Daily Show) to Tennessee Muslims:
LOL Stealth Muslims!
| 425 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:43:07pm |
| 426 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:44:30pm |
| 427 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:44:57pm |
re: #422 Decatur Deb
It this a hearing with sworn testimony?
Apparently so, and from some observers it appears to have become a farce. Lots of stuff coming out there.
And yes, it appears as if there is a Geller connection. From the comments on one of the Daily News Journal articles on this:
EricAllenBell wrote:
I have sat in court every single day of this thing while my camera guy gets footage. I even shot some footage myself. And I have lost track of how many times Joe Brandon has said that the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro are the same people who caused 9/11 and that they believe in having sex with children.The amount of bigotry displayed and hate speech permitted in this courtroom has been shocking to say the least.
And it has also finally come to light that the person organizing and funding this entire anti-mosque movement (or hysteria as I tend to think of it) is lobbyist Laurie Cardoza-Moore. She is not even from Rutherford County folks.
So to everyone who has accused me of being some kind of “outside aggitator” you might want to rethink that. I am just a guy with a camera asking questions and occasionally writing blogs about what I see. Laurie Cardoza-Moore is the one who is pulling all the strings.
Mufreesboro survived 9/11 just fine living with Muslims. Thanks Laurie.
Cardoza-Moore was, I think, involved in Geller’s big anti Park51 rally.
| 428 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:46:20pm |
I am severely pissed off about the War on Halloween. It wasn’t so long ago when the couple of weeks leading up to Halloween were filled with Twilight Zone marathons on channel 67, as well as It’s The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown on channel 5. Back in the olden days, we used to look forward to Halloween as a time in which it was not just accepted but damn near required to get our Victorian horror freak on.
| 429 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:46:24pm |
re: #389 Stanley Sea
Phew! I got you off of Assange bashing!!! :)
Except that calling out a scumbag for being, well, a scumbag isn’t so much “bashing” as “telling it like it is”.
| 430 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:47:35pm |
re: #414 Dark_Falcon
It was a facetious response…
I get that there are certain things civilians are going to do better than the army can. But when you’re operating in a combat zone, everyone is a potential combat soldier. If providing military logistical support in those areas compromises combat operations because it diverts troops, then it’s pretty clear you don’t have enough troops.
Many of the problems we’ve encountered in AFPAK and Iraq are due to lack of sufficient forces on the ground. The concept of an agile, highly mobile army based around light combat units supported by extensive air and artillery deployments just doesn’t work in the situations we’re encountering. We are relying on contractors to fill some of the gaps left by doctrine and that is causing problems.
| 431 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:48:13pm |
re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist
(This should not be taken as fondness for the SF Labor Council, who have hacked me a few times before this Manning thing came up, even.)
Here’s their buddies.
[Link: www.couragetoresist.org…]
Note, you might need a barf bag.
| 432 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:48:55pm |
re: #428 negativ
Here in Deep Bibleland, our street has had a Halloween renaissance. In years past, we had as few as a dozen kids come by. Now a lot of neighbors have but up elaborate yard displays.
| 433 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:49:11pm |
re: #428 negativ
Heh. I’ll get Bill O’Reilly on it ASAP!
| 434 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:50:30pm |
| 435 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:51:52pm |
re: #427 freetoken
Apparently so, and from some observers it appears to have become a farce. Lots of stuff coming out there.
And yes, it appears as if there is a Geller connection. From the comments on one of the Daily News Journal articles on this:
Cardoza-Moore was, I think, involved in Geller’s big anti Park51 rally.
Well, the good news about that is that we get a good clear record of their asshattery. And they won’t be able to deny what they said later. Let the nation see wing Geller’s minions in full froth. Exposure is the way to bring pressure on her less insane adherents for being involved with such crazies and thereby split them off from the hard-core loons. The more they froth, the weaker they become.
| 436 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:53:35pm |
re: #419 jaunte
Lisa sounds like she’s been reading too much Geller. I don’t see how Tennessee is under any threat to be ruled by sharia.
Aasif Mandvi (Daily Show) to Tennessee Muslims:
Loved Aasif in that segment. He was hilarious. The pun on imam and “I’m a mom” he had with the one Muslim lady was funny as well as his interactions with the lady in charge of the oposition ot the mosque. He’s a funny guy. I really like the correspentents the show has right now. The chemistry that John Oliver and Wyatt Cenac have together on camera reminds me of what Stephen Colbert and Steve Carrell used to have. KRisten Schaal is cute and good for a laugh. And I’ve always liked Sam Bee and Jason Jones too.
| 437 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:55:04pm |
re: #428 negativ
Seriously though, that could be the basis for an awesome spoof-sketch on the whole “War on Christmas” bullshit. If I worked for SNL, I’d be stealing your idea right now.
| 438 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:55:15pm |
re: #435 Dark_Falcon
Let the nation see wing Geller’s minions in full froth.
From that latest DNJ article:
[…]
Cope asked Moore if she felt that her own church members should be investigated to determine if any members are convicted criminals should they seek site plan approval to expand.
“They speak English,” said Coker, adding that her board of elders are well known and have shown no pattern of deceit the way the Islamic Center did regarding its spokesperson.
County attorneys started the day by arguing about the course the case was heading, with Cope complaining that Brandon didn’t bother to return four phone calls.
“We have problems dealing with that, your honor,” Cope said.
| 439 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:55:55pm |
re: #430 BishopX
It was a facetious response…
I get that there are certain things civilians are going to do better than the army can. But when you’re operating in a combat zone, everyone is a potential combat soldier. If providing military logistical support in those areas compromises combat operations because it diverts troops, then it’s pretty clear you don’t have enough troops.
Many of the problems we’ve encountered in AFPAK and Iraq are due to lack of sufficient forces on the ground. The concept of an agile, highly mobile army based around light combat units supported by extensive air and artillery deployments just doesn’t work in the situations we’re encountering. We are relying on contractors to fill some of the gaps left by doctrine and that is causing problems.
Actually, the medium brigade concept is working well and the Talibs are getting hammered. And precision guided munitions mean that our air and arty is more effective than ever before. So I disagree with your argument, intensely (though respectfully).
| 440 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:58:44pm |
re: #427 freetoken
One Tennessean responds to Laurie Cardoza-Moore:
[Link: sobeale.blogspot.com…]
| 442 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 7:59:52pm |
Top 11 Most Ridiculous Bollywood Action Movie Scenes
In case you haven’t seen any of these unbelievable clips, India produces the kind of over-the-top action movies that the U.S. can only dream of nowadays. Their throwback Super Action genre shadows most mainstream properties the U.S. is producing and these videos are the reason why. Get ready to have your face blown to pieces with the 11 most ridiculous bollywood action movie clips of all time… for now.
| 444 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:00:27pm |
I see that Medea Benjamin gets top billing as running bradleymanning.org.
| 446 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:01:30pm |
re: #443 Decatur Deb
Thjs is a good rant from the same source:
[Link: sobeale.blogspot.com…]
| 447 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:01:39pm |
re: #438 freetoken
I hope they have some sane folk on that city council. Did you see this tidbit?
Shariah Law totally undermines everything our Constitution stands for,” Moore said. “I am a Jew as well as a Christian.”
Well that’s sort of tricky, isn’t it?
| 449 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:01:55pm |
re: #441 Gus 802
So is Cindy Sheehan still a Tea Party/Republican?
I haven’t seen any updates on that but the Tea Party Bipartisan thing is working out great: Tea Party Democrat Just as Crazy as The Republicans (Just posted moments ago)
| 450 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:03:07pm |
re: #441 Gus 802
So is Cindy Sheehan still a Tea Party/Republican?
She’d join the fucking Sons of the Confederacy if it got her the attention she desperately craves.
| 451 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:03:38pm |
re: #449 Killgore Trout
I haven’t seen any updates on that but the Tea Party Bipartisan thing is working out great: Tea Party Democrat Just as Crazy as The Republicans (Just posted moments ago)
Wingnutmoonbagger!
| 452 |
BishopX Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:03:46pm |
re: #439 Dark_Falcon
I have no doubt about our ability to effectively kill people is more effective than ever before. Our problem that our ability to win in AFPAK isn’t going to be due to our ability to defeat the Taliban in combat. Victory is only going to happen when we can provide enough security that villages feel comfortable relying on coalition forces and Afgan army forces to keep them safe. Until that happens no amount of combat prowess is going to change anything.
On that note, I’m off to bed. Have a good night
| 454 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:04:22pm |
re: #447 marjoriemoon
I hope they have some sane folk on that city council. Did you see this tidbit?
Well that’s sort of tricky, isn’t it?
Doesn’t eat milchdig and fleischig on Friday.
| 455 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:05:10pm |
re: #449 Killgore Trout
I haven’t seen any updates on that but the Tea Party Bipartisan thing is working out great: Tea Party Democrat Just as Crazy as The Republicans (Just posted moments ago)
Britain? Imperial Britain? WTF?
| 456 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:05:45pm |
re: #449 Killgore Trout
Friggin’ DINO.
/
| 457 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:06:19pm |
re: #446 jaunte
What is her geographic range of interest? This is the Alabama leftie site I’m traveling to the Sanity Rally with:
[Link: leftinalabama.com…]
| 459 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:07:13pm |
re: #454 Decatur Deb
Doesn’t eat milchdig and fleischig on Friday.
Sure! Why not! I’m everything and everything is me! (Well as long as it doesn’t include Islam, of course. hur hur hur)
| 460 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:07:49pm |
re: #455 Gus 802
Britain? Imperial Britain? WTF?
She’s a Larouchite. Loony Lyndon himself has called Queen Elizabeth the biggest drug dealer in the world. My imagination is imaging Queen Elizabeth sitting around snorting a whole bunch of coke saying “First you get the money, then you get the power, and then you get the women” all in a refined English accent of course.
| 461 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:08:12pm |
re: #457 Decatur Deb
Looks like she’s in Nashville, ([Link: www.blogger.com…] but otherwise I don’t know.
| 462 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:08:39pm |
re: #457 Decatur Deb
What is her geographic range of interest? This is the Alabama leftie site I’m traveling to the Sanity Rally with:
[Link: leftinalabama.com…]
I forgot you’re going to that! Oh please put up a Pages post when you return!
| 463 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:09:25pm |
The stupid… it’s deep:
U.S. Attorneys make presence known in Murfreesboro mosque trial
Attorneys for the U. S. Department of Justice appeared in Chancery Court Friday as plaintiffs entered their sixth day of testimony in a lawsuit to stop the construction of a Murfreesboro area mosque.
U.S. Attorneys for the Middle District of Tennessee spent more than an hour with the court behind closed doors to prevent plaintiffs from sharing subpoenaed information in an ongoing arson investigation at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro.
“Do you know who set this fire,” Plaintiff Attorney Joe Brandon, Jr. asked Detective Randy Groce to sustained objection. “Isn’t this fire the same tactic used in the Middle East,” Brandon asked to yet another sustained objection.
Chancellor Robert E. Corlew III took the opportunity to remind counsel not to raise the ongoing investigation again.
“Is your idea of an afterlife strapping a bomb to your chest and blowing yourself up so you can get you some virgins,” Brandon asked Detective Groce to sustained objections on relevance.
Brandon continued to indirectly address an amicus curiae filing by the federal government on Monday by asking witnesses opposed to the mosque how they feel being targeted by President Barack Obama.
“How does it make you feel that we have a President who says, ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction,’” Brandon asked several witnesses.
“It does bother me that the federal government has come here to Murfreesboro to tell us not to cross a line,” plaintiff’s witness Elizabeth Coker said on the stand.
“Are you aware the American Psychiatric Association has become Sharia compliant with regards to female genital mutilation,” Brandon asked Coker to sustained objections. The question led Chancellor Corlew to note what he called the capricious nature of Brandon’s questioning.
[…]
Good grief, how can the judge let it continue? How can that lawyer keep his privilege to try something in court?
| 464 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:10:20pm |
re: #460 HappyWarrior
She’s a Larouchite. Loony Lyndon himself has called Queen Elizabeth the biggest drug dealer in the world. My imagination is imaging Queen Elizabeth sitting around snorting a whole bunch of coke saying “First you get the money, then you get the power, and then you get the women” all in a refined English accent of course.
There’s a large population of functionally insane people in this country world.
/
| 465 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:10:56pm |
re: #452 BishopX
I have no doubt about our ability to effectively kill people is more effective than ever before. Our problem that our ability to win in AFPAK isn’t going to be due to our ability to defeat the Taliban in combat. Victory is only going to happen when we can provide enough security that villages feel comfortable relying on coalition forces and Afgan army forces to keep them safe. Until that happens no amount of combat prowess is going to change anything.
On that note, I’m off to bed. Have a good night
And we can’t provide that security without effective Afghan forces. We’ll never have enough troops they to provide that level of security. We need Afghan units that will remain cohesive and in the fight once we’ve cleared an area. But the corruption problem and tribal loyalties make that very difficult.
| 466 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:11:01pm |
re: #455 Gus 802
Britain? Imperial Britain? WTF?
This must be a prank. Tea Bagger’s tricorner hats. British Imperialism. Are we sure she’s not “punking” the Tea Party?
| 467 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:11:17pm |
re: #463 freetoken
The stupid… it’s deep:
U.S. Attorneys make presence known in Murfreesboro mosque trial
Good grief, how can the judge let it continue? How can that lawyer keep his privilege to try something in court?
What the… holy cow.
| 468 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:11:20pm |
re: #463 freetoken
The stupid… it’s deep:
U.S. Attorneys make presence known in Murfreesboro mosque trial
Good grief, how can the judge let it continue? How can that lawyer keep his privilege to try something in court?
Typical bullshit, these are Americans who just happen to be Muslims. And he’s playing to people’s prejudices by doing what he’s doing. They sould to do this shit to Catholics, Jews, and other groups and it’s a shame that the same is happening to Muslims today in 2010.
| 469 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:11:30pm |
re: #463 freetoken
Good grief, how can the judge let it continue? How can that lawyer keep his privilege to try something in court?
The racists get their day in court, I guess. I pray it’s not too many days.
| 470 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:12:26pm |
re: #462 marjoriemoon
I forgot you’re going to that! Oh please put up a Pages post when you return!
I’m trying to set up a route to get cheesy cellphone shots back in real time. The balloon-borne crowd camera is out—Park Service rules. We had to alter the route to get on a rally bus out of Atlanta, 36-hours non-stop up ‘n back. Could be a pah-tee.
| 471 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:12:33pm |
re: #469 marjoriemoon
From that last article I linked, the recess that was called happened after the “278 million” question was asked:
[…]
Are you aware that Islam has exterminated 278 million people since its inception,” Brandon asked Moore.With that last question, Corlew asked counsel to approach the bench and used the opportunity to call recess until 9 a.m. Friday Nov. 12.
| 472 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:14:40pm |
re: #466 Slumbering Behemoth
This must be a prank. Tea Bagger’s tricorner hats. British Imperialism. Are we sure she’s not “punking” the Tea Party?
It’s part of the LaRouche British conspiracy talking points.
His political views are extremely controversial and are characterized by his belief in a number of complex conspiracy theories, involving global plots by such figures as the British Royal Family (especially the Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh), George P. Shultz, and George H. W. Bush and other circles of international bankers engaging in what he has characterized as a “synarchist” political movement of the oligarchy.
and
According to Chip Berlet and Dennis King, LaRouche has always been stridently anti-British and has included Queen Elizabeth II, the British Royal Family, and others, in his list of conspirators who are said to control the world’s political economy and the international drug trade.. In addition, “The Sexual Congress for Cultural Fascism” (2004) names the British Fabian Society as a potential source of international conspiratorial authority, citing the membership of prominent British democratic socialists and social democrats, especially within the Labour Party and the British…
| 473 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:14:54pm |
re: #449 Killgore Trout
I haven’t seen any updates on that but the Tea Party Bipartisan thing is working out great: Tea Party Democrat Just as Crazy as The Republicans (Just posted moments ago)
Here’s Kesha Rogers going Godwin:
[Link: www.daily-dirt.com…]
| 475 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:17:11pm |
re: #470 Decatur Deb
I’m trying to set up a route to get cheesy cellphone shots back in real time. The balloon-borne crowd camera is out—Park Service rules. We had to alter the route to get on a rally bus out of Atlanta, 36-hours non-stop up ‘n back. Could be a pah-tee.
Oh I want to be a stowaway :)
| 476 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:17:36pm |
re: #472 Gus 802
Ah. To my shame (I guess?) I know very little about LaRouche’s thoughts or conspiracy theories. Better or worse then Beck? Jones? Is there even a metric by which we can call one kind of batshit-crazy better than another?
| 477 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:17:50pm |
re: #464 Gus 802
There’s a large population of functionally insane people in this
countryworld./
Yes, and it seems that every single on of them are currently running for one office or another, and as far as I can tell, they’re going to be elected.
| 478 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:18:36pm |
re: #463 freetoken
The stupid… it’s deep:
U.S. Attorneys make presence known in Murfreesboro mosque trial
Good grief, how can the judge let it continue? How can that lawyer keep his privilege to try something in court?
Only because of the 80-1 advantage of professed Christians vs. Muslims in the country.
| 479 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:18:38pm |
re: #476 Slumbering Behemoth
Ah. To my shame (I guess?) I know very little about LaRouche’s thoughts or conspiracy theories. Better or worse then Beck? Jones? Is there even a metric by which we can call one kind of batshit-crazy better than another?
I got the conspiracy scoop from HappyWarrior in #460.
| 480 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:20:02pm |
| 481 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:20:42pm |
re: #478 jaunte
Only because of the 80-1 advantage of professed Christians vs. Muslims in the country.
I’m betting that when the judge returns to the case on Nov 12 he will either throw the case out, or require the counsel to remove himself should he utter just one more idiocy.
| 482 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:21:05pm |
re: #476 Slumbering Behemoth
Ah. To my shame (I guess?) I know very little about LaRouche’s thoughts or conspiracy theories. Better or worse then Beck? Jones? Is there even a metric by which we can call one kind of batshit-crazy better than another?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
This may give you a good overview. He shares Glenn and Alex’s paranoia that the government is out to get him for one. Used to encounter his supporters handing out literature when I had an internship on the Hill back when I took a poli sci class in high school. Was crazy to actually read that bs.
| 483 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:21:12pm |
| 484 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:22:07pm |
| 485 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:24:53pm |
re: #476 Slumbering Behemoth
Ah. To my shame (I guess?) I know very little about LaRouche’s thoughts or conspiracy theories. Better or worse then Beck? Jones? Is there even a metric by which we can call one kind of batshit-crazy better than another?
I have a limited understanding of Beck, Jones and the Birch Society but the Larouchies really make my head hurt. Aside from their thing about the Brits they are really obsessed with colonizing Mars and building railways here on earth. I’m not sure if they’re any crazier but I understand them less.
| 486 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:27:35pm |
Rogers won the primary with 53 percent of the vote for the seat once held by the former Rep. Tom DeLay. She called Obama “a puppet” and said he was being manipulated by the same wealthy interests who put German dictator Adolf Hitler into power.
Ron Paul comes from the same area, south of Houston. Sorry about that.
| 487 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:28:01pm |
re: #485 Killgore Trout
I’m sticking the LaRouchies in the “Free-floating Crazy” bin. I think Alex-jones goes there too. They seem to have wandered the right-left spectrum, but always in the Ultra-Infra ranges.
| 488 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:30:34pm |
re: #487 Decatur Deb
I’m sticking the LaRouchies in the “Free-floating Crazy” bin. I think Alex-jones goes there too. They seem to have wandered the right-left spectrum, but always in the Ultra-Infra ranges.
The just pulled the Dale Robertson Video after I posted it. Could they really be watching this late on a Saturday night?
| 489 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:31:22pm |
re: #488 Killgore Trout
The just pulled the Dale Robertson Video after I posted it. Could they really be watching this late on a Saturday night?
The Mouse Police Never Sleep.
| 490 |
bratwurst Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:35:14pm |
re: #489 Decatur Deb
The Mouse Police Never Sleep.
Do they live inside of your head? Do they come to you in your bed?
| 491 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:35:23pm |
re: #488 Killgore Trout
The just pulled the Dale Robertson Video after I posted it. Could they really be watching this late on a Saturday night?
Maybe Kesha Rogers just threw Dale Robertson under the bus.
/
| 492 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:37:11pm |
re: #491 Gus 802
Maybe Kesha Rogers just threw Dale Robertson under the bus.
/
Maybe but now neither video on my page is working. Maybe there’s a bug or I fucked something up with the code.
| 493 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:37:52pm |
Meanwhile, evil “Obamacare” just sent my mother her first weekly check for $250 to cover her medication through the donut hole period - next 3 months. Without it, we would have had to come up with $3,000.
| 494 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:37:53pm |
re: #492 Killgore Trout
Maybe but now neither video on my page is working. Maybe there’s a bug or I fucked something up with the code.
I’m getting this from Vimeo.
Sorry, “Tea Party Founder Dale Robertson Endorses Kesha Rogers” was deleted at 11:15:16 Sat Oct 23, 2010. We have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere
| 497 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:40:15pm |
re: #494 Gus 802
That’s about 15 minutes after I posted. I can’t help but wonder if it’s related.
| 498 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:42:01pm |
re: #497 Killgore Trout
That’s about 15 minutes after I posted. I can’t help but wonder if it’s related.
Could be or it could be a coincidence. I doubt Vimeo had anything to do with it.
| 499 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:43:36pm |
re: #495 Gus 802
Maybe she did throw him under the bus. Luckily I still have the original window open and it was posted by Kesha for Congress
| 500 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:44:33pm |
So, I’m looking at what happened in the previous 5 days of that “trial”.
It turns out I haven’t even begun to touch on the stupidity of the whole affair that’s going on in that courtroom.
I can’t imagine how the local court, and I realize it is just a local court (presided over by a “Chancellor”) but still, can continue this mockery of our legal system.
| 501 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:45:41pm |
For example:
“Do you remember Jim Jones who killed all those people who drank the Kool-Aid,” Brandon asked [county mayor] Burgess. “Is that what’s going on with the ICM?”
| 502 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:46:03pm |
re: #492 Killgore Trout
Maybe but now neither video on my page is working. Maybe there’s a bug or I fucked something up with the code.
They worked fine for me before, but now the links only show as text. Copying and pasting one into the browser got me this:
Sorry, “Tea Party Founder Dale Robertson Endorses Kesha Rogers” was deleted at 11:15:16 Sat Oct 23, 2010. We have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere.
They dun got pulled.
| 503 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:46:40pm |
re: #501 freetoken
For example:
It’s like something out of a movie where the defendant gets railroaded by the drunkard district attorney.
| 504 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:47:24pm |
re: #503 Gus 802
And here we thought the Scopes trial would remain as the hallmark of Tennessee trials…
| 505 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:47:47pm |
re: #494 Gus 802
Bah, ya beat me too it. :grumblegrumble:
| 506 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:49:05pm |
Howdy, Lizards. I’ll just ump right in…
OT - I googled my LGF nic yesterday and found this really weird post about me on a pro-Zionist site by a member named msmcghee (apparently in reference to a former DU member that it’s pretty obvious was disliked, to put it mildly):
In case anyone’s interested I suspect (I have no proof of course) that PM is now posting as “Curious Lurker” at Little Green Footballs. This person has a similar writing style and is similarly prone to getting quite vicious and whiney if anyone questions the morality of Palestinian resistance against Israel’s Jews. LGF has become quite Islam friendly in the last few months as Charles seems to be floundering in some moral no-man’s land. She seems to have found in Charles another Lithos to cover for her Jew-hate. I think it’s called an MO.
WTF? Do I have some evil twin that logs in here and posts that stuff, because I don’t recall ever getting “vicious and whiney” with anyone over the Israeli/Palestinian thing. As a matter of fact, I mostly avoid talking about it altogether.
The whole thing sounds really… stalker-ish. Does every popular political blog have stalkers? I still don’t get the obsession.
Weirdness abounds.
| 507 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:49:24pm |
re: #487 Decatur Deb
I’m sticking the LaRouchies in the “Free-floating Crazy” bin. I think Alex-jones goes there too. They seem to have wandered the right-left spectrum, but always in the Ultra-Infra ranges.
Dining room tables.
(remember that?)
| 508 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:50:49pm |
| 509 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:50:56pm |
re: #506 CuriousLurker
Howdy, Lizards. I’ll just ump right in…
OT - I googled my LGF nic yesterday and found this really weird post about me on a pro-Zionist site by a member named msmcghee (apparently in reference to a former DU member that it’s pretty obvious was disliked, to put it mildly):
WTF? Do I have some evil twin that logs in here and posts that stuff, because I don’t recall ever getting “vicious and whiney” with anyone over the Israeli/Palestinian thing. As a matter of fact, I mostly avoid talking about it altogether.
The whole thing sounds really… stalker-ish. Does every popular political blog have stalkers? I still don’t get the obsession.
Weirdness abounds.
Vicious? You? WTF?
| 510 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:52:00pm |
| 511 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:52:50pm |
re: #506 CuriousLurker
You’re muslim. For some folks, that’s all they need to hear to believe any bullshit made up about you. Don’t take that kind of garbage to heart.
| 512 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:53:07pm |
re: #506 CuriousLurker
LGF has become quite Islam friendly in the last few months as Charles seems to be floundering in some moral no-man’s land. She seems to have found in Charles another Lithos to cover for her Jew-hate.
Haha moral no-man’s land, what rot.
And ‘her Jew-hate?’ WTF.
| 513 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:04pm |
re: #510 CuriousLurker
I know, right? I just kinda sat there “blinking*
Me too. I’ve never seen you say a peep against Israel, Jews, etc. In fact it’s rather to the contrary. Just some clueless idiot. No doubt motivated because you’re Muslim and as SB states.
| 514 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:08pm |
re: #510 CuriousLurker
I know, right? I just kinda sat there “blinking*
Blinking is the first symptom of Jihad….followed by viciousness and eventual exploding may occur.
| 515 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:35pm |
re: #506 CuriousLurker
They are fucked up. Damn. That’s libelous really.
| 516 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:43pm |
re: #511 Slumbering Behemoth
You’re muslim. For some folks, that’s all they need to hear to believe any bullshit made up about you. Don’t take that kind of garbage to heart.
I suppose you’re right, sad as that is. Thanks, I won’t take it to heart. I was just shocked by the outright lies (though I probably shouldn’t have been).
| 517 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:55pm |
re: #514 Killgore Trout
Unless it’s staring. Staring or blinking, one or both.
| 518 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:54:59pm |
re: #504 freetoken
And here we thought the Scopes trial would remain as the hallmark of Tennessee trials…
It’s not a true analogue. The anti-evolution crowd and William Jennings Bryan, who was a forceful, thoughtful man. This Brandon is just a nutjob.
| 519 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:56:22pm |
re: #508 Decatur Deb
Uh-uh. Fill us in.
Barney Frank was accosted at a town hall last summer by a Larouchinite. She’s running against him now.
She asked him some whacked out question and he responded that (from my memory) “arguing with you is like arguing with a dining room table”
| 520 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:56:58pm |
| 521 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:57:07pm |
re: #512 jaunte
Haha moral no-man’s land, what rot.
And ‘her Jew-hate?’ WTF.
I guess when I’m friendly to the Jewish ppl here and talk to them about religion & whatnot it’s just…. wait for it…. wait for it… TAQIYYAH!!11!
| 522 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:57:55pm |
re: #514 Killgore Trout
Blinking is the first symptom of Jihad…followed by viciousness and eventual exploding may occur.
LOL! Ohhhh, so that’s what that ticking sound I heard was. /
| 523 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:57:56pm |
re: #513 Gus 802
Me too. I’ve never seen you say a peep against Israel, Jews, etc. In fact it’s rather to the contrary. Just some clueless idiot. No doubt motivated because you’re Muslim and as SB states.
MPALFG
(Muslim Posting at LGF)
They cannot handle the truth!!!!
Love CL.
| 525 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:58:45pm |
re: #515 Stanley Sea
They are fucked up. Damn. That’s libelous really.
Thanks for the moral support Sea—and all of you.
| 526 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:59:14pm |
re: #521 CuriousLurker
I guess when I’m friendly to the Jewish ppl here and talk to them about religion & whatnot it’s just… wait for it… wait for it… TAQIYYAH!!11!
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I know for a fact that you’re really just a 50-ish, rastafarian male.
| 527 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 8:59:48pm |
More:
Millie Evans, a 45-year resident of Rutherford County, revealed under cross examination the name of a group aiding plaintiffs in this case. Evans was asked how she got in touch with the plaintiffs pointing to a nonprofit helping Brandon.“We’ve been in touch for weeks and weeks on this,” Evan told the court. “I donated myself. I don’t know where the money went to. P.T. something.”
Evans told the court she wrote a $500 check and gave $100 in cash to a nonprofit she says told her it is here to educate the community on the dangers of Islam.
The group is called “Proclaiming Justice To The Nations.” The group’s president, Laurie Cardoza-Moore, has been an outspoken critic of the proposed mosque at prior public meetings of the Rutherford County Commission.
“We work with the attorneys in this case,” Cardoza-Moore told the Post. “We’re like a community activist group.”
So it took getting someone under oath to admit who is behind bankrolling some of this idiocy.
| 528 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:00:18pm |
re: #514 Killgore Trout
Blinking is the first symptom of Jihad…followed by viciousness and eventual exploding may occur.
Just like Inspector Clouseau’s boss, Charles Dreyfus.
//
| 529 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:00:26pm |
re: #524 Gus 802
I’ve a slight case of chronic Dhimitude [sic]!!11ty
//Eleventy! Where’s my Robert Spencer underwear?
//
Robert Spencer underwear—ROFLMAO!!
| 530 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:00:32pm |
re: #524 Gus 802
The Stealth Jihad is in my KFC
And when it’s halal done with that bucket
It’s coming for me!
| 531 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:00:54pm |
re: #521 CuriousLurker
I guess when I’m friendly to the Jewish ppl here and talk to them about religion & whatnot it’s just… wait for it… wait for it… TAQIYYAH!!11!
LOL I wonder what it was that prompted that person to say that! But yea, it is typical stalker behavior, in that they make up shit and then run with it like it’s the truth. Then the next guy reads it, repeats it, on and on.
It doesn’t feel good, but we still love you :)
| 532 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:01:50pm |
re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I know for a fact that you’re really just a 50-ish, rastafarian male.
I will conjur up Windsagio (in reference to Mandy, remember her?)
You don’t know if it’s a 23 year old Vietnamese guy with a personality disorder.
| 533 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:02:56pm |
re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I know for a fact that you’re really just a 50-ish, rastafarian male.
How do you know these things?? You must be a sorcerer!
| 534 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:04:24pm |
re: #531 marjoriemoon
LOL I wonder what it was that prompted that person to say that! But yea, it is typical stalker behavior, in that they make up shit and then run with it like it’s the truth. Then the next guy reads it, repeats it, on and on.
It doesn’t feel good, but we still love you :)
Thanks, marjorie. I love you guys back. ;o)
| 535 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:04:51pm |
re: #532 Stanley Sea
I will conjur up Windsagio (in reference to Mandy, remember her?)
You don’t know if it’s a 23 year old Vietnamese guy with a personality disorder.
Where’s did he disappear to?
| 536 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:04:55pm |
re: #532 Stanley Sea
I will conjur up Windsagio (in reference to Mandy, remember her?)
You don’t know if it’s a 23 year old Vietnamese guy with a personality disorder.
What ever happened to windy anyway?
| 537 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:05:04pm |
re: #531 marjoriemoon
LOL I wonder what it was that prompted that person to say that! But yea, it is typical stalker behavior, in that they make up shit and then run with it like it’s the truth. Then the next guy reads it, repeats it, on and on.
It doesn’t feel good, but we still love you :)
True. It’s a trait on display all the time at the Stalker blog. The worst trait though is the way they can never confine there disagreement with a person to the issue at hand. They always need to insult the other person’s appearance, sex life, sanity, or religion (sometimes all four). It’s pure hate, without any dilution.
| 538 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:05:17pm |
| 539 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:05:52pm |
re: #450 Slumbering Behemoth
She’d join the fucking Sons of the Confederacy if it got her the attention she desperately craves.
Nonsense. Medea would never join a group that wears boring old GRAY.
| 540 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:05:57pm |
re: #530 jaunte
The Stealth Jihad is in my KFC
And when it’s halal done with that bucket
It’s coming for me!
The conspiracy goes deeper than you know.
| 541 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:08:37pm |
re: #535 Gus 802
Where’s did he disappear to?
He misses Cato I think?
We need to ask WUB. Last I heard his computer blew up.
I miss him, not sure about the rest of you, but that guy made me laugh day 1.
| 542 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:09:30pm |
re: #521 CuriousLurker
I guess when I’m friendly to the Jewish ppl here and talk to them about religion & whatnot it’s just… wait for it… wait for it… TAQIYYAH!!11!
That’s exactly what they think, you know.
| 543 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:09:52pm |
re: #541 Stanley Sea
He misses Cato I think?
We need to ask WUB. Last I heard his computer blew up.
I miss him, not sure about the rest of you, but that guy made me laugh day 1.
Yeah, I tried to ask WUB the other night, but I guess I caught him just as he was leaving because he never answered.
| 544 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:09:55pm |
re: #533 CuriousLurker
How do you know these things?? You must be a sorcerer!
Nah, nothing so grand as that. I’ve been living in your closet for the last few months. Remember a couple of weeks ago when a pair of your sneakers were inexplicably missing their shoe strings? I got bored and made a thong out of them. Sorry.
| 545 |
palomino Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:10:01pm |
re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth
“Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me.’”
— George Orwell
/not George Bush
Like a lot of things pacifism, when it becomes a rigid ideology, can be destructive. But its polar opposite—Cheney’s One Percent doctrine—is exceptionalist dynamite that we really don’t need to play with.
| 546 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:10:07pm |
re: #542 SanFranciscoZionist
Humans with semi-functioning mouse brains.
| 547 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:10:34pm |
| 548 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:10:48pm |
re: #539 SanFranciscoZionist
Nonsense. Medea would never join a group that wears boring old GRAY.
Heh. But I was talking about Cindy. CINDY!
| 549 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:11:11pm |
re: #525 CuriousLurker
Thanks for the moral support Sea—and all of you.
Look, it’s the Internet. Per the stalkerblog, you’re an Islamic Colonialist, and I’m anti-Christian and Hispanophobic. Shit happens.
| 550 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:11:13pm |
re: #537 Dark_Falcon
True. It’s a trait on display all the time at the Stalker blog. The worst trait though is the way they can never confine there disagreement with a person to the issue at hand. They always need to insult the other person’s appearance, sex life, sanity, or religion (sometimes all four). It’s pure hate, without any dilution.
Indeed. It’s typical bullying behavior and the bulk of them did that here (as you know). Yell louder and longer and drown out opinions you don’t want to hear.
| 551 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:11:30pm |
re: #544 Slumbering Behemoth
Nah, nothing so grand as that. I’ve been living in your closet for the last few months. Remember a couple of weeks ago when a pair of your sneakers were inexplicably missing their shoe strings? I got bored and made a thong out of them. Sorry.
Hahahahahaha!!
| 552 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:11:53pm |
re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I know for a fact that you’re really just a 50-ish, rastafarian male.
I’m a sixty-year-old retired Evangelical trucker living with my 25-year-old third wife in Twain Hart, CA. As I’ve posted before, but no one ever seems to believe.
| 553 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:12:23pm |
re: #544 Slumbering Behemoth
Nah, nothing so grand as that. I’ve been living in your closet for the last few months. Remember a couple of weeks ago when a pair of your sneakers were inexplicably missing their shoe strings? I got bored and made a thong out of them. Sorry.
LOL, and you SB, never fail.
| 554 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:12:47pm |
re: #549 SanFranciscoZionist
Look, it’s the Internet. Per the stalkerblog, you’re an Islamic Colonialist, and I’m anti-Christian and Hispanophobic. Shit happens.
Dont’cha just love being a caricature? Sheesh.
| 555 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:13:17pm |
re: #549 SanFranciscoZionist
Look, it’s the Internet. Per the stalkerblog, you’re an Islamic Colonialist, and I’m anti-Christian and Hispanophobic. Shit happens.
What am I today?
/
| 556 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:13:34pm |
re: #548 Slumbering Behemoth
Heh. But I was talking about Cindy. CINDY!
Oh. Well her. Maybe. I was confused by the Code Pink pictures. Medea would definitely only join SCV if she could have a pink Confederate uniform.
| 557 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:14:11pm |
re: #549 SanFranciscoZionist
Look, it’s the Internet. Per the stalkerblog, you’re an Islamic Colonialist, and I’m anti-Christian and Hispanophobic. Shit happens.
Also, Gus is a “Peronist Progressive, Killgore is a member of the KKK, and I’m a “Totalitarian Fascist”.
BOOGA BOOGA!
| 558 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:15:03pm |
re: #59 Obdicut
Asian mayors for everyone!
I currently live in an inner suburb. For the big city next door, an Asian mayor would be an upgrade from the current one—even if the Asian didn’t speak or read a word of English.
re: #138 Gus 802
Julian Assange is a prick.
I get the impression that it’s just the opposite, that he doesn’t have one or can’t manage to use it other than for discharging waste liquids.
| 559 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:15:09pm |
re: #554 CuriousLurker
Dont’cha just love being a caricature? Sheesh.
Speaking of which, you should submit a picture to Muslims Wearing Things.
| 560 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:15:23pm |
| 561 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:15:23pm |
re: #557 Dark_Falcon
Also, Gus is a “Peronist Progressive, Killgore is a member of the KKK, and I’m a “Totalitarian Fascist”.
BOOGA BOOGA!
What? I’m still a Peronist Progressive? Shucks. I was hoping to get a promotion to Maoist!
Mao! Mao! Mao! Meow.
/
| 562 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:15:30pm |
| 563 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:16:08pm |
re: #549 SanFranciscoZionist
Look, it’s the Internet. Per the stalkerblog, you’re an Islamic Colonialist, and I’m anti-Christian and Hispanophobic. Shit happens.
I don’t even know what the hell I am anymore. The last time anyone commented about me off LGF (to my knowledge, anyhow) was a butthurt creationist using one of my posts here, back in the hey day of the creation/evolution row, to make some kind of lame rebuttal.
| 564 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:16:19pm |
re: #560 Dark_Falcon
You’re an “Argentine Worm”.
Can you put one of those in a tequila bottle and still label it “Product of Mexico”?
| 565 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:16:30pm |
re: #559 SanFranciscoZionist
Speaking of which, you should submit a picture to Muslims Wearing Things.
I just saw that site yesterday—cracked me up!
| 566 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:16:39pm |
re: #554 CuriousLurker
Dont’cha just love being a caricature? Sheesh.
You have a rare trait on the Internet
It’s called integrity
| 567 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:16:40pm |
re: #541 Stanley Sea
He misses Cato I think?
We need to ask WUB. Last I heard his computer blew up.
I miss him, not sure about the rest of you, but that guy made me laugh day 1.
Windy gave a sort of goodbye post that was a bit cryptic, but referenced Cato’s leaving. I didn’t actually figure that out till I read it over again! I mean, I would have volunteered to “tear him a new one” every now and again in Cato’s absence if he wanted to stay. I’m just a giver that way.
| 568 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:17:02pm |
| 569 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:17:27pm |
re: #560 Dark_Falcon
You’re an “Argentine Worm”.
Yep, with the silly little Spanish lesson repeated over and over again. Busano.
Quack!
| 570 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:17:48pm |
I thought I remembered Cardoza-Moore…
Gawker has a video from the Jon Stewart show - it’s a hilarious skit about Cardoza-Moore and the Tennessee thing:
[Link: tv.gawker.com…]
| 571 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:18:18pm |
re: #566 HoosierHoops
You have a rare trait on the Internet
It’s called integrity
That’s sweet of you to say, Hoops. Thanks.
| 572 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:19:00pm |
re: #565 CuriousLurker
I just saw that site yesterday—cracked me up!
All of my friends are loving the hell out of it.
| 573 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:19:11pm |
re: #567 marjoriemoon
Windy gave a sort of goodbye post that was a bit cryptic, but referenced Cato’s leaving. I didn’t actually figure that out till I read it over again! I mean, I would have volunteered to “tear him a new one” every now and again in Cato’s absence if he wanted to stay. I’m just a giver that way.
Wait, Windy flounced?
| 574 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:19:20pm |
OT, but Teabagger Joe Miller in Alaska just lost a case to hide his personnel records showing why he was fired from his part time lawyer job in Fairbanks.
[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com…]
He uses the same atty as Sister Sarah and Bristol the Daughter.
| 575 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:19:50pm |
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
| 576 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:19:55pm |
re: #570 freetoken
I thought I remembered Cardoza-Moore…
Gawker has a video from the Jon Stewart show - it’s a hilarious skit about Cardoza-Moore and the Tennessee thing:
[Link: tv.gawker.com…]
Heh Aasif is awesome.
| 577 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:20:29pm |
| 578 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:20:35pm |
The Washington Times is helping the freakout over shariah with their recent editorial “Islamic flag over the White House” prominently featuring radical activist Anjem Choudary.
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]
Readers of the Times might go a little further in examining how much support Choudary actually commands in his own neighborhood before panicking:
Obviously I was never going to see eye to eye with the benefitchogging Muslim hate cleric Anjem Choudary, but I didn’t realise how many of his own community think he’s dreadful, too. Few of the cafes on his home turf — London’s East End — will accommodate the bearded 42-year-old firebrand and self-styled “most hated man in Britain”. Indeed, just after he flounces out of our interview in one of the few that will — a halal diner in Whitechapel — a waiter asks me: “Is that the coffin man? I can’t bear him. All he wants is fame, and the easiest way to get that is say that Christian people should be persecuted. I don’t see much difference between him and Nick Griffin.”[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk…]
| 579 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:20:36pm |
Local news is on. Coit Tower is all lit up orange, and happy hordes are roaming around North Beach.
| 580 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:04pm |
re: #574 Stanley Sea
Yup, the big news of the night… was going to post it but I’m still caught up in the stupidity of that “trial” in Tennessee.
There are probably lots of things Miller doesn’t want to come out of the closet.
| 581 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:10pm |
re: #551 CuriousLurker
I’m done with them. You can have them back if you like, but you probably wouldn’t like.
I’d give you mine, but I already used them to make a lasso to catch geckos with.
BTW, your closet is infested with geckos. Great big purple ones that breath fire. I would have told you about it sooner, but I was afraid you’d be pissed about the shoe string thong thing.
| 582 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:21pm |
re: #564 SanFranciscoZionist
Can you put one of those in a tequila bottle and still label it “Product of Mexico”?
If you do that, they’ll next accuse you of wanting to flood America with illegal immigrants.
| 583 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:22pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
you should definitely go, 64 or not
| 584 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:49pm |
re: #577 Stanley Sea
| 585 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:21:51pm |
re: #570 freetoken
I thought I remembered Cardoza-Moore…
Gawker has a video from the Jon Stewart show - it’s a hilarious skit about Cardoza-Moore and the Tennessee thing:
[Link: tv.gawker.com…]
I remember that. She’s jaw dropping, that witch.
| 586 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:22:25pm |
re: #574 Stanley Sea
OT, but Teabagger Joe Miller in Alaska just lost a case to hide his personnel records showing why he was fired from his part time lawyer job in Fairbanks.
[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com…]
He uses the same atty as Sister Sarah and Bristol the Daughter.
Checkmate! He’s gonna freak.
| 587 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:22:50pm |
re: #577 Stanley Sea
Muslim’s wearing things updated
[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com…]
Oh the GARB
“Iranian racecar driver Laleh Seddigh is garbed in her native racing gear.”
For some reason I find it hilarious that the shot shows her with only her eyes showing out of the helmet. Traditional. But not.
| 588 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:22:51pm |
re: #170 Gus 802
That’s another thing too. Why does everyone assume that these documents are all authentic? How do we know they haven’t been forged in places. Are there any foreign influences involved? Etc. People are going to take Wikileaks at face value?
Good point. If they can redact names, they can add or subtract words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, or even whole documents as they see “fit”.
re: #179 ozbloke
I actually think your a good guy, I know we have not spoken that much, but I’ve read here for years. I like your.
I really don’t get why you believe Thomas over Hill and you didn’t give a reason, by the way did you see this?
Justice Clarence Thomas lover speaks
Thats now two women, any comment?
The fact that two women make similar claims (20 years apart) does not make them accurate. Nor does it make them inaccurate. It makes them claims, 20 years apart.
I recall that several of the main claims against Thomas just happened to have been “revealed” by staffers of Senators Kennedy and Metzenbaum and just happen to seemingly have been culled almost verbatim from The Exorcist and other novels.
And I recall that none of Ms. Hill’s claims against Justice Thomas were ever proven.
| 589 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:22:59pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
You’d be an awesome lawyer.
Do you have any friends that are lawyers?
That’s the best place to start!
If you don’t….
email me.
I have a couple of frigitty strict by the books lawyers, that I trust.
It’s all about trust, with lawyers.
Nic is blue, for you!
| 590 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:10pm |
re: #559 SanFranciscoZionist
I dunno, I’d be leery of doing something like that, just for safety’s sake. We’re not exactly dealing with mentally stable stalkers here, if there even is such a thing.
Sucks, but it’s a fact of life.
| 591 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:19pm |
re: #573 talon_262
Windy’s last post (about a month ago)…not really a flounce, but more of a hiatus:
356 windsagio 9/26/2010 10:31:58 am PDT
just a brief aside; probably won’t see much of me for a while (cue cheers)To quote (paraphrase) William Golding,
“The lack of Opposition did him in”
just mentioning it ‘cuz it seems polite to ;)
peaces :D
| 592 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:19pm |
re: #573 talon_262
Wait, Windy flounced?
Not really a flounce. Kind of like “I won’t be posting for awhile” and that was it.
| 593 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:28pm |
re: #567 marjoriemoon
Windy gave a sort of goodbye post that was a bit cryptic, but referenced Cato’s leaving. I didn’t actually figure that out till I read it over again! I mean, I would have volunteered to “tear him a new one” every now and again in Cato’s absence if he wanted to stay. I’m just a giver that way.
I will try to let him know that there is a reaming available if he wants it.
:) lol
| 594 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:33pm |
re: #592 marjoriemoon
Not really a flounce. Kind of like “I won’t be posting for awhile” and that was it.
Jinx ;-P
| 595 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:38pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
Egads what would you do that for??
| 596 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:23:45pm |
re: #578 jaunte
The Washington Times is helping the freakout over shariah with their recent editorial “Islamic flag over the White House” prominently featuring radical activist Anjem Choudary.
Gotta keep feeding the fear & hate lest people actually talk to each other and realize they’ve been had.
| 597 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:24:06pm |
re: #583 daddylawbucks
you should definitely go, 64 or not
I’ve been teaching for seven years. I’m bored, and I don’t like doing classroom management. I’d like to try something that uses my brain and pays better. (I teach Catholic school. Most things pay better.)
| 598 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:25:10pm |
| 599 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:26:30pm |
Out of all of them Joe Miller creeps me out the most. There’s something about that man. Like there is evil lurking beneath the surface.
| 600 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:12pm |
re: #597 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve been teaching for seven years. I’m bored, and I don’t like doing classroom management. I’d like to try something that uses my brain and pays better. (I teach Catholic school. Most things pay better.)
Learn to teach teachers.
| 601 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:18pm |
Here was Cardoza-Moore at the “Stand With Israel Rally” at which Geller was such a hit:
| 602 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:30pm |
re: #589 Floral Giraffe
You’d be an awesome lawyer.
Do you have any friends that are lawyers?
That’s the best place to start!
If you don’t…
email me.
I have a couple of frigitty strict by the books lawyers, that I trust.
It’s all about trust, with lawyers.
Nic is blue, for you!
I know some lawyers…
| 603 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:34pm |
re: #570 freetoken
I thought I remembered Cardoza-Moore…
Gawker has a video from the Jon Stewart show - it’s a hilarious skit about Cardoza-Moore and the Tennessee thing:
[Link: tv.gawker.com…]
Laurie Cardoza-Moore knows about the MotherShip!
| 604 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:35pm |
re: #596 CuriousLurker
Gotta keep feeding the fear & hate lest people actually talk to each other and realize they’ve been had.
Exactly like in 1984. The loons may talk of Big Brother in reference to Obama, but they’re the one’s who resemble the Party of Orwell’s distopia.
| 605 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:27:52pm |
re: #599 Gus 802
Out of all of them Joe Miller creeps me out the most. There’s something about that man. Like there is evil lurking beneath the surface.
I feel ya. I found his comments about the Berlin Wall and the GDR really telling to say the least.
| 606 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:11pm |
re: #590 Slumbering Behemoth
I dunno, I’d be leery of doing something like that, just for safety’s sake. We’re not exactly dealing with mentally stable stalkers here, if there even is such a thing.
Sucks, but it’s a fact of life.
It was mostly a joke. I just liked the idea of knowing someone on the site.
| 607 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:13pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
I am using a West Virginia Attorney, who bills at $75 and hour, $25 an hour for his clerk, and a Long Beach Attorney, who bills at $450 an hour, and his clerk at $75 an hour. So, it all depends…
For reference only!
| 608 |
bratwurst Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:17pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
Law school dropout here! To be honest, I was too young and immature to really take it seriously at the time (at USF!)…but even so, too much regurgitation involved to hold my serious attention.
| 609 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:20pm |
| 610 |
TedStriker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:35pm |
re: #599 Gus 802
Out of all of them Joe Miller creeps me out the most. There’s something about that man. Like there is evil lurking beneath the surface.
Well, the man has expressed favorable comments about East Germany’s solution to border control and has used brownshirt wannabes for his event “security”…I’d say that your Spidey Sense serves you well.
;-P
| 611 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:28:53pm |
re: #588 ClaudeMonet
1. your wrong about Thomas, he’s a creep and a discrase to the court.
2. Is it beyond the power of the CIA to have planted stuff in what Wicki got? Maybe it’s a real leak, and maybe it’s a real leak with “additive” documents sprinkled in.
| 612 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:29:29pm |
re: #581 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m done with them. You can have them back if you like, but you probably wouldn’t like.
I’d give you mine, but I already used them to make a lasso to catch geckos with.
BTW, your closet is infested with geckos. Great big purple ones that breath fire. I would have told you about it sooner, but I was afraid you’d be pissed about the shoe string thong thing.
Um, you can keep the shoestring. *shudders*
As for the purple geckos, they’re doomed. My cats will be having them for lunch (but only after I force them to become Muslim).
Wait. I wonder if I could turn them into jihadi geckos…
| 613 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:29:29pm |
re: #597 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve been teaching for seven years. I’m bored, and I don’t like doing classroom management. I’d like to try something that uses my brain and pays better. (I teach Catholic school. Most things pay better.)
Lawyering is a dog eat dog world. There is self-satisfaction in doing things like family law or dealing with kids, even working for the environment, but you may not always end up fighting for the side you like. And typically that’s not were the money is, if that matters to you.
| 614 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:29:58pm |
re: #601 freetoken
Here was Cardoza-Moore at the “Stand With Israel Rally” at which Geller was such a hit:
[Video]
Ugh. Worst sound ever. Who the heck uploaded that?
| 615 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:30:00pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
I have a friend who is going right now. She says it’s a lot of work but it does sound interesting aside from contracts law, she says that’s incredibly boring.
| 616 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:30:30pm |
re: #603 jaunte
Laurie Cardoza-Moore knows about the MotherShip!
Then could said mothership please beam him up. He’s kinda useless down here and he needs an anal probe to remove the stick from his ass.
| 617 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:30:40pm |
| 618 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:30:57pm |
re: #612 CuriousLurker
Um, you can keep the shoestring. *shudders*
As for the purple geckos, they’re doomed. My cats will be having them for lunch (but only after I force them to become Muslim).
Wait. I wonder if I could turn them into jihadi geckos…
Well, if they breathe fire…
| 619 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:30:58pm |
re: #602 SanFranciscoZionist
Talk to them!
Good talent is hard to find!
YOU are GOOD TALENT!
(They’ll try to hire you on the cheap, if they’re cheap!
BEWARE!)
| 620 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:31:58pm |
re: #601 freetoken
Here was Cardoza-Moore at the “Stand With Israel Rally” at which Geller was such a hit:
[Video]
Had to stop at 2:48. Can’t do it. Nope. Won’t listen to that insanity. Sure, I stand behind Israel — which you can even see in this thread. I’m also very opposed to anti-Semitism but there’s no way in hell I’ll listen to those nutcases.
| 621 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:32:26pm |
re: #602 SanFranciscoZionist
Law school takes 3 years full time, and it’s a chore to do all that reading. On the other hand, it ain’t microbiology or calculus, if you know what I mean. The three years are going to go past, and either: You died, you went to law school and became one of us, or you stayed put. I promise you, it’s economic freedom for the rest of your life.
| 622 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:32:41pm |
Heh did anyone else think of the line “No one’s perfect” from Some Like It Hot when Aasif reminds her that he is a Muslim. Thought of Jack Lemmon’s character telling Joe Brown’s “You can’t marry me, Oswalt, I’m a man.” “Well no one’s perfect.” Heh. Her line about Muslims being bad because they don’t eat pork was also weird especially seeing now she’s spoken at a stand with Israel rally. I love all kinds of meat from the pig but that was such a stupid argument.
| 623 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:32:55pm |
I also like the lady Muslim lifeguard.
| 624 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:33:08pm |
re: #553 Stanley Sea
LOL, and you SB, never fail.
Mark it on the calendar. They day you encountered a right leaning, moderate conservative who can make a joke without taking cheap pot-shots at liberals or democrats.
Shit, I should contact the gov’t and see if they can’t give me some kind of special status or something. I may well be an endangered species.
| 625 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:33:21pm |
re: #604 Dark_Falcon
Exactly like in 1984. The loons may talk of Big Brother in reference to Obama, but they’re the one’s who resemble the Party of Orwell’s distopia.
True that.
| 626 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:34:15pm |
And out of all of them O’Donnell creeps me out the least. Miller, yuck.
| 627 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:35:11pm |
Edmund Standing pointed out the media shares some blame for elevating radicals like Choudary into the public view (as Fox has Peter Principled some radical bloggers past their level of competence).
These ‘news items’ are obviously widely reported because they provide sensational stories and the chance for shocking headlines, but the reality is that giving all this mainstream media attention to Choudary and al-Muhajiroun does nothing but feed their egos and stir up fear about British Muslims. From the overblown rhetoric used in stories about al-Muhajiroun you would think that they are on the verge of marching on Downing Street and enslaving us all. [Link: hurryupharry.org…]
| 628 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:35:18pm |
re: #604 Dark_Falcon
Exactly like in 1984. The loons may talk of Big Brother in reference to Obama, but they’re the one’s who resemble the Party of Orwell’s distopia.
Awesome DF. +100
| 629 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:35:53pm |
re: #622 HappyWarrior
Heh did anyone else think of the line “No one’s perfect” from Some Like It Hot when Aasif reminds her that he is a Muslim. Thought of Jack Lemmon’s character telling Joe Brown’s “You can’t marry me, Oswalt, I’m a man.” “Well no one’s perfect.” Heh. Her line about Muslims being bad because they don’t eat pork was also weird especially seeing now she’s spoken at a stand with Israel rally. I love all kinds of meat from the pig but that was such a stupid argument.
Someone trashed Muslims for not eating pork at a pro-Israel rally?
OY.
For some reason, I’m recalling a scene in an AB Yehoshua novel where two Muslims are out hunting wild boar—they explain that they donate the boars to the local church, which gives the meat to poor Christian families.
| 630 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:36:04pm |
re: #606 SanFranciscoZionist
It was mostly a joke. I just liked the idea of knowing someone on the site.
Nope. Too late. I’ve asserted that you were being totally cereal, and you can’t back away from owning what I think you meant. :P
/
| 631 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:36:23pm |
More insight into the America, from the Tennessee “trial”, third day I believe:
A witness in the Murfreesboro mosque trial said she believed America would be better off without Muslims and pledged support to fight a proposed mosque in her community.
Murfreesboro resident Jeanetta Alford was called to the stand Thursday in an effort by plaintiffs to stop the construction of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro in Rutherford County.
“If anyone is teaching out of the Qur’an, then yes, you are breaking the law,” Alford told the court. “I believe we have to follow the Bible and respect our government.”
Alford went on to describe the dangers of Sharia law and her new found fear of Islam after studying publications and hearing from local mosque opponents.
[…]
Who was it that wrote something about fascism, the cross, and the American flag? Anyway…
The group Alford and other plaintiff’s witnesses fund is called Proclaiming Justice To The Nations (PJTN). The group, described to the Post by President Laurie Cardoza-Moore as a “community activist group,” funds the lawsuit against the county’s May 24 site plan approval for a proposed Islamic community center on Veals Road.
Plaintiff Attorney J. Thomas Smith of Franklin told the Post today he was retained by PJTN and works with the group’s president and plaintiff attorney Joe Brandon Jr.
The group has also used contributions from local residents to pay witnesses who appeared on the stand Thursday.
Timothy Jones Cummings Sr. is one witness who admitted being paid thousands of dollars by plaintiff attorneys to read to the court from anti-Muslim websites he found.
I think we need to jump on this money train! Gus - you could make millions!
The county attorney was not impressed:
Under tough cross examination, County Attorney Josh McCreary highlighted the problem with allowing what defense called blatant hearsay.
“They paid you $3,000 to print stuff off the internet and present it on the screen here,” McCreary asked the witness. “You read pages and pages of this stuff and don’t know the truthfulness of any of this, correct?”
[…]
| 632 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:36:25pm |
re: #618 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, if they breathe fire…
Riiiiight, I forgot he said they breathe fire. Pam’s gonna be so pissed.
| 633 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:37:11pm |
re: #629 SanFranciscoZionist
Someone trashed Muslims for not eating pork at a pro-Israel rally?
OY.
For some reason, I’m recalling a scene in an AB Yehoshua novel where two Muslims are out hunting wild boar—they explain that they donate the boars to the local church, which gives the meat to poor Christian families.
No, I am sorry if I confused you. She trashed Muslims for not eating pork when Aasif Mandavi interviewed her on TDS.
| 634 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:37:53pm |
Here is my plan, (‘cause while being a lawyer is paying the bills, I aint getting rich) —— 1. get a job on NPR doing anything on air, legal analysis or something
2. Make lots of racist remarks,
(you know whats next)
3. One year on Faux and retirement is mine!
| 635 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:37:57pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
They pay opportunities are certainly better as a lawyer, or law clerk, than as a schoolteacher! GO FOR IT!
| 636 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:38:00pm |
re: #631 freetoken
More insight into the America, from the Tennessee “trial”, third day I believe:
Who was it that wrote something about fascism, the cross, and the American flag? Anyway…
I think we need to jump on this money train! Gus - you could make millions!
The county attorney was not impressed:
Make millions working from home servicing attorneys!
/
| 637 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:38:12pm |
re: #633 HappyWarrior
No, I am sorry if I confused you. She trashed Muslims for not eating pork when Aasif Mandavi interviewed her on TDS.
I was unaware that there was some kind of moral aspect to eating pork.
I am SO screwed.
| 638 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:38:27pm |
By the way there are a lot of beautiful women on that things Muslims wear website. Not surprised at all of course .
| 639 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:38:32pm |
re: #599 Gus 802
Out of all of them Joe Miller creeps me out the most. There’s something about that man. Like there is evil lurking beneath the surface.
I’m following that election kinda closely. He’s the ultimate hypocrite. Came out against every Govt. “handout” he benefited from. He was on Medicaid and his 8 children on Denali Health Care for fucks sake. He’s a hypocrite.
He’s part of the fundy push. Backed by Palin and been great friends in the secessionist group with Todd.
| 640 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:39:08pm |
re: #620 Gus 802
Had to stop at 2:48. Can’t do it. Nope. Won’t listen to that insanity. Sure, I stand behind Israel — which you can even see in this thread. I’m also very opposed to anti-Semitism but there’s no way in hell I’ll listen to those nutcases.
There’s “Stand for Israel” and there’s another group “Stand With Us”. Neither website seems to have anything on the NY Mosque, but I may have missed it. I followed one of them for awhile. Stand With Us, I think… but they deal exclusively with the Middle East and not the U.S. They also have positive articles about Arabs.
| 641 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:39:08pm |
re: #638 HappyWarrior
By the way there are a lot of beautiful women on that things Muslims wear website. Not surprised at all of course .
There really are. I was drooling over Sania Mirza yesterday. And the Iranian racecar lady is very lovely.
| 642 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:39:40pm |
re: #639 Stanley Sea
I’m following that election kinda closely. He’s the ultimate hypocrite. Came out against every Govt. “handout” he benefited from. He was on Medicaid and his 8 children on Denali Health Care for fucks sake. He’s a hypocrite.
He’s part of the fundy push. Backed by Palin and been great friends in the secessionist group with Todd.
Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear now why Palin had that secessionist brochure on her desk. She’s one of them.
| 643 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:39:59pm |
re: #640 marjoriemoon
There’s “Stand for Israel” and there’s another group “Stand With Us”. Neither website seems to have anything on the NY Mosque, but I may have missed it. I followed one of them for awhile. Stand With Us, I think… but they deal exclusively with the Middle East and not the U.S. They also have positive articles about Arabs.
I’m familiar with Stand With Us. They are non-wingnutty. Don’t know the other group.
| 644 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:40:30pm |
| 645 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:41:58pm |
re: #620 Gus 802
Had to stop at 2:48. Can’t do it. Nope. Won’t listen to that insanity. Sure, I stand behind Israel — which you can even see in this thread. I’m also very opposed to anti-Semitism but there’s no way in hell I’ll listen to those nutcases.
I’m afraid to go look at what you guys are talking about. Better I resist the temptation and not ruin my night.
| 646 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:42:20pm |
re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist
There really are. I was drooling over Sania Mirza yesterday. And the Iranian racecar lady is very lovely.
Yeah she’s really pretty as is Queen Rania of Jordan.
| 647 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:42:44pm |
re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist
Has anyone here gone to law school? I’m thinking about going to law school.
I believe Spacejesus is in law school
| 648 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:43:08pm |
re: #624 Slumbering Behemoth
Mark it on the calendar. They day you encountered a right leaning, moderate conservative who can make a joke without taking cheap pot-shots at liberals or democrats.
Shit, I should contact the gov’t and see if they can’t give me some kind of special status or something. I may well be an endangered species.
You are why I’m here!
| 649 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:43:50pm |
re: #612 CuriousLurker
Um, you can keep the shoestring. *shudders*
I don’t want ‘em no more. In hindsight, it was a really bad idea. They chaffed the hell out of my tender bits, and their no longer even fit to lasso geckos. I disposed of them in one of your jacket pockets. You can consider it back rent paid in full. I’m not paying more than that, ‘cuz your closet is freaking cramped.
As for the purple geckos, they’re doomed. My cats will be having them for lunch (but only after I force them to become Muslim).
Wait. I wonder if I could turn them into jihadi geckos…
Duuude! They’re WAY bigger than any cat. So yeah, you could totally jihadize them. Come to think of it, you should be paying me for catching them. I will require payment of thirteen Red Wing brand boot strings a week, payed in full on every Saturday. Your sneaker strings are crap.
| 650 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:44:13pm |
re: #635 Floral Giraffe
They pay opportunities are certainly better as a lawyer, or law clerk, than as a schoolteacher! GO FOR IT!
That’s not really true. BigLaw, that would be the big national firms where the money is, usually hire from the top 5% of law school. Otherwise, you get a smaller firm that can’t pay as much. And it’s a boy’s club. You have to be a real go-getter and have a thick skin.
The market is also rather glutted with lawyers so that doesn’t help any. You have to be exceptional. I’m not saying that SFZ isn’t by a long shot! And I don’t want to rain on her parade, but I don’t think it’s something for her. My opinion. I’ve worked for lawyers for 30 years.
| 651 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:44:15pm |
| 653 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:45:58pm |
re: #650 marjoriemoon
That’s not really true. BigLaw, that would be the big national firms where the money is, usually hire from the top 5% of law school. Otherwise, you get a smaller firm that can’t pay as much. And it’s a boy’s club. You have to be a real go-getter and have a thick skin.
The market is also rather glutted with lawyers so that doesn’t help any. You have to be exceptional. I’m not saying that SFZ isn’t by a long shot! And I don’t want to rain on her parade, but I don’t think it’s something for her. My opinion. I’ve worked for lawyers for 30 years.
Thanks for the info. It’s not the only possibility I’m looking at. I just want to make a change next year.
| 654 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:47:32pm |
re: #623 SanFranciscoZionist
You need to stop with that. I’m chaffed enough already.
| 655 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:48:07pm |
re: #649 Slumbering Behemoth
I don’t want ‘em no more. In hindsight, it was a really bad idea. They chaffed the hell out of my tender bits, and their no longer even fit to lasso geckos. I disposed of them in one of your jacket pockets. You can consider it back rent paid in full. I’m not paying more than that, ‘cuz your closet is freaking cramped.
Gah! Now I’m going to have to torch the jacket. But first I have to figure out which one it was, and I do NOT wanna stick my hand in the pockets without knowing… maybe it’s better to just torch all of them.
Duuude! They’re WAY bigger than any cat. So yeah, you could totally jihadize them. Come to think of it, you should be paying me for catching them. I will require payment of thirteen Red Wing brand boot strings a week, payed in full on every Saturday. Your sneaker strings are crap.
Deal! (My sneaker strings are NOT crap!)
| 656 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:48:24pm |
re: #651 CuriousLurker
There you are! What happened to windy?
He’s been busy with work and driving up to Seattle a lot, also I believe there’s a lot of gaming involved :D
| 657 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:48:40pm |
| 658 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:49:14pm |
re: #650 marjoriemoon
I agree the market is flooded at the moment, but who knows what
it will be in three or four years when a new lawyer begins? Also, income is relative. I would be shocked if SFZ didn’t make over 100k practicing law by the third year.
| 660 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:50:19pm |
re: #659 Gus 802
Pictures of Muslims Wearing Things: this one was my favorite.
Yeah I like that one because it sticks it to those who act like Muslims can’t be loyal and proud Americans.
| 661 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:50:53pm |
re: #656 WindUpBird
He’s been busy with work and driving up to Seattle a lot, also I believe there’s a lot of gaming involved :D
Thanks. I knida miss him—can you tell him “hi” for me? Oh, and marjorie & Sea offered to abuse him if he comes back. ;o)
| 662 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:51:23pm |
re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist
Thanks for the info. It’s not the only possibility I’m looking at. I just want to make a change next year.
Have you considered a college professor? That might suit you very well.
I don’t want to discourage you, but it’s a hard job. I’ve worked for large and small firms. I prefer larger firms for the benefits, but I’m non-legal staff. Associates right out of school work their asses off. Late nights, weekends. We did a closing last year. Those guys slept in the offices. Worked through the holiday from Tgiving through New Years. They get a good salary but have no life.
| 663 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:51:44pm |
re: #661 CuriousLurker
Thanks. I knida miss him—can you tell him “hi” for me? Oh, and marjorie & Sea offered to abuse him if he comes back. ;o)
I’ll poke him! I see him about once a week.
| 664 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:52:31pm |
when i was a kid…I thought i’d be a great lawyer…Because I’d thought a great argument would rule the day…’ ‘If the glove don’t fit fit you must acquit’
But i never had the talent or the the smarts..
We can dream though…I’ve watched a few good men a thousand times..
You can’t handle the truth!
/
| 665 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:52:44pm |
re: #660 HappyWarrior
Yeah I like that one because it sticks it to those who act like Muslims can’t be loyal and proud Americans.
Not really. They’ll just throw Maj. Nidal Hasan back at you. Y’know, taqqiyah and all that.
| 666 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:52:49pm |
re: #662 marjoriemoon
Have you considered a college professor? That might suit you very well.
I don’t want to discourage you, but it’s a hard job. I’ve worked for large and small firms. I prefer larger firms for the benefits, but I’m non-legal staff. Associates right out of school work their asses off. Late nights, weekends. We did a closing last year. Those guys slept in the offices. Worked through the holiday from Tgiving through New Years. They get a good salary but have no life.
This is the reason I never entered the “proper” game industry. 1) I’d have to move, and 2) lots of money and no life. Oh and no job security either! Whee!
| 667 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:53:15pm |
| 668 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:53:15pm |
re: #655 CuriousLurker
Think of it as an Easter Egg hunt. But instead of the Easter Bunny, it’s a weird, drunken squatter. And instead of eggs, it’s soiled shoe strings. And instead of glee at finding a nifty surprise, it’s abject horror followed by hours of hand washing with blistering water.
Other than that, it’s pretty much the same.
| 669 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:53:46pm |
| 670 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:53:58pm |
re: #661 CuriousLurker
Thanks. I knida miss him—can you tell him “hi” for me? Oh, and marjorie & Sea offered to abuse him if he comes back. ;o)
I would be happy to contribute, a whack, if necessary!
//
A gentle one…
| 671 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:54:30pm |
re: #662 marjoriemoon
Have you considered a college professor? That might suit you very well.
I don’t want to discourage you, but it’s a hard job. I’ve worked for large and small firms. I prefer larger firms for the benefits, but I’m non-legal staff. Associates right out of school work their asses off. Late nights, weekends. We did a closing last year. Those guys slept in the offices. Worked through the holiday from Tgiving through New Years. They get a good salary but have no life.
Definitely NOT college professor. I know people trying to get jobs in that field, and it absolutely sucks.
And I’ll be honest, I’ve started at a new school every year or two for the last seven years, and I’ve worked evenings, weekends, constantly. And I’ve been paid shit, and I spend my days telling little boys to sit down and taking cell phones away, and doing endless paperwork, and it’s never, never good enough.
Ridiculous workload is a way of life for me. So that’s not worrisome. Some other parts of it are.
| 672 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:55:11pm |
re: #659 Gus 802
Mine too. Go Marines!
| 673 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:55:16pm |
re: #668 Slumbering Behemoth
Think of it as an Easter Egg hunt. But instead of the Easter Bunny, it’s a weird, drunken squatter. And instead of eggs, it’s soiled shoe strings. And instead of glee at finding a nifty surprise, it’s abject horror followed by hours of hand washing with blistering water.
Other than that, it’s pretty much the same.
I suggest latex gloves. Saves on handwashing.
| 674 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:55:35pm |
re: #668 Slumbering Behemoth
lol. again!
| 675 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:56:01pm |
re: #665 CuriousLurker
Not really. They’ll just throw Maj. Nidal Hasan back at you. Y’know, taqqiyah and all that.
You have a point unfortunately. Tis a shame.
| 677 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:56:14pm |
| 678 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:56:59pm |
re: #660 HappyWarrior
Yeah I like that one because it sticks it to those who act like Muslims can’t be loyal and proud Americans.
That giant smile and beaming pride is obviously taqueria, you fool.
/
| 679 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:57:11pm |
re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist
My GF teaches Special Ed at a high school. I’ve never seen anyone work so hard off the clock.
I hate the teacher bashers.
| 680 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:57:12pm |
re: #676 Gus 802
Others here: [Link: www.apaam.org…]
Note. That’s an Arab-American group and not necessarily a Muslim association.
| 681 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:57:16pm |
re: #662 marjoriemoon
But a family practise, that specializes in Estate law, doesn’t get too crazy.
Well, sometimes, but not like other types of law. I trust my attorney, and that is saying a LOT!
Divorce lawyers have it the worst, IMHO.
Of course, the harder (worse) the job, the better the pay.
Goes without mention, kinda!
| 682 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:57:21pm |
re: #666 WindUpBird
This is the reason I never entered the “proper” game industry. 1) I’d have to move, and 2) lots of money and no life. Oh and no job security either! Whee!
hehe The thing is, law school is VERY EXPENSIVE. So you almost have to get into a high paying job just to pay those debts. Even being a corporate in-house lawyer working 9-5 doesn’t cut it like it used to.
| 683 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:58:04pm |
re: #668 Slumbering Behemoth
Think of it as an Easter Egg hunt. But instead of the Easter Bunny, it’s a weird, drunken squatter. And instead of eggs, it’s soiled shoe strings. And instead of glee at finding a nifty surprise, it’s abject horror followed by hours of hand washing with blistering water.
Other than that, it’s pretty much the same.
An conservative Easter Behemoth left a “surprise” in my left-leaning Muslim closet. I am sooooo… *thud*
| 684 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:59:10pm |
re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist
Definitely NOT college professor. I know people trying to get jobs in that field, and it absolutely sucks.
And I’ll be honest, I’ve started at a new school every year or two for the last seven years, and I’ve worked evenings, weekends, constantly. And I’ve been paid shit, and I spend my days telling little boys to sit down and taking cell phones away, and doing endless paperwork, and it’s never, never good enough.
Ridiculous workload is a way of life for me. So that’s not worrisome. Some other parts of it are.
I hear ya. I don’t know what to tell ya. heh… talk to Lawhawk. He may have some good advice.
| 685 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 9:59:19pm |
re: #667 Stanley Sea
Are you my stalker? I don’t like stalkers. Whoa, wait. Lemme see what you look like in this camisole.
/
| 687 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:00:22pm |
re: #685 Slumbering Behemoth
Are you my stalker? I don’t like stalkers. Whoa, wait. Lemme see what you look like in this camisole.
/
Only tonight SB.
| 688 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:00:48pm |
I wanted to be a lawyer and go to UVA when I was like 5 or so. Didn’t know the first thing about law honestly. I probably won’t do grad school when I finish up my BA. Going to prepare and take the foreign service exam though. Really wish I could be better at foreign languages of course even with English becoming the language of diplomacy.
| 689 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:02:05pm |
re: #370 Decatur Deb
The Union reconnaisance balloon force in the civil war was a contract operation. That war also brought the term “shoddy” into the language. It was the name of a Northern contract supplier, or so the story goes.
There’s nothing along the lines of a contractor’s name leading to the use of the term “shoddy” here—
[Link: www.thefreedictionary.com…]
[Link: dictionary.sensagent.com…]
re: #375 Decatur Deb
In Israel, I worked for our US Defense Contract Management Command. Contractors are as good as the force that oversees them.
Darned right. That also applies to any situation involving supervision.
That’s why I’m always so distrustful when something includes supervision by Congress, the Executive Branch, etc. All too often, “landmark legislation” is passed, including “safeguards” that are never enforced or sometimes even intended to be enforced.
| 690 |
webevintage Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:02:15pm |
Hi, I spent most of today at the emergency Vet.
Why do pets insist on getting hurt?
Today I realized that Master Cheif was growling at everyone after coming in and laying down under a chair.
He’s normally very sweet and would never growl at the dogs.
I bend down and give him a small “hey stop that” push and he has a huge (like 5 inches) tear in his skin behind his right front leg.
And just skin but down though the muscle.
Just a minimal amount of blood….I think he was actually very lucky.
I think the cat who likes to get on the roof fell off and hit a lawn chair or the edge of the deck roof which is aluminum and sharp.
Of course I freak and head out to the emergency vet at the same time I call the boy to come meet me there since it is his cat.
The boy gets there and he makes one of the “adult” decisions pet owners make…to spend ever dollar you have to save a pet.
Vet thinks it looks bad but she’ll sedate him and look around….the look around showed that he had not broken or punctured anything just a clean slice though. So she got everything stitched back together and we waited….
$452 later he has an Elizabethan collar, big ugly Frankenstein stitches across his back and drains hangin’ out in case fluids build up. Recover is not for sure, but the vet felt he has a very good chance to make it.
Right now he is still drugged up and lock in the pet carrier for at least the next 6 hours.
Poor little kitty.
Keep your fingers crossed and send good thoughts his way.
Once he is on his way we will mock the collar by taking pictures.
So 1 life down, 8 to go…..
| 691 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:02:55pm |
re: #683 CuriousLurker
An conservative Easter Behemoth left a “surprise” in my left-leaning Muslim closet. I am sooo… *thud*
Are you at all familiar with Bill Hicks?
| 692 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:03:48pm |
OT, anyone want to learn about sexual relationships??? (heh) this chart
| 693 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:03:57pm |
| 694 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:04:23pm |
re: #687 Stanley Sea
Hee hee!
You go!
| 695 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:04:26pm |
re: #679 Stanley Sea
My GF teaches Special Ed at a high school. I’ve never seen anyone work so hard off the clock.
I hate the teacher bashers.
It’s pretty brutal.
| 696 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:05:07pm |
re: #682 marjoriemoon
hehe The thing is, law school is VERY EXPENSIVE. So you almost have to get into a high paying job just to pay those debts. Even being a corporate in-house lawyer working 9-5 doesn’t cut it like it used to.
I already owe so much in student loans that I will never break even. :)
| 697 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:05:50pm |
re: #681 Floral Giraffe
But a family practise, that specializes in Estate law, doesn’t get too crazy.
Well, sometimes, but not like other types of law. I trust my attorney, and that is saying a LOT!
Divorce lawyers have it the worst, IMHO.
Of course, the harder (worse) the job, the better the pay.
Goes without mention, kinda!
Most people, tho, when they finish school, want to get the best paying job they can. And like I say, with the cost of law school, they really have to. You can work for a smaller place and make under $100,000 (sometimes way under) as an associate, but until you pay those debts, you won’t see much money in your pocket.
Large firms have estate and probate depts too, but I don’t know if that type of work would interest SFZ.
She can work as a lawyer for a non-profit or something like that. You make diddly (like $30-50,000) but there’s more satisfaction. But again, you gotta pay that school debt.
| 698 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:05:51pm |
re: #687 Stanley Sea
Play your cards right, and you won’t have to wear anything after tonight.
/Wait, or do I have to play my cards right? Damn! This shit is confusing.
| 699 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:06:43pm |
re: #693 SanFranciscoZionist
well, teaching doesn’t sound like its wonderful for you. One can just cover depositions for other firms and make $75 an hour. I have never worked in a big firm (because they won’t hire me). But there is often something to work on that is not disgusting and pays pretty well. Of course, if you can get into a big school, you can make a lot of $$
| 700 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:06:53pm |
re: #690 webevintage
Hi, I spent most of today at the emergency Vet.
Why do pets insist on getting hurt?
Today I realized that Master Cheif was growling at everyone after coming in and laying down under a chair.
He’s normally very sweet and would never growl at the dogs.
I bend down and give him a small “hey stop that” push and he has a huge (like 5 inches) tear in his skin behind his right front leg.
And just skin but down though the muscle.
Just a minimal amount of blood…I think he was actually very lucky.
I think the cat who likes to get on the roof fell off and hit a lawn chair or the edge of the deck roof which is aluminum and sharp.Of course I freak and head out to the emergency vet at the same time I call the boy to come meet me there since it is his cat.
The boy gets there and he makes one of the “adult” decisions pet owners make…to spend ever dollar you have to save a pet.
Vet thinks it looks bad but she’ll sedate him and look around…the look around showed that he had not broken or punctured anything just a clean slice though. So she got everything stitched back together and we waited…$452 later he has an Elizabethan collar, big ugly Frankenstein stitches across his back and drains hangin’ out in case fluids build up. Recover is not for sure, but the vet felt he has a very good chance to make it.
Right now he is still drugged up and lock in the pet carrier for at least the next 6 hours.
Poor little kitty.
Keep your fingers crossed and send good thoughts his way.
Once he is on his way we will mock the collar by taking pictures.
So 1 life down, 8 to go…
I would be beside myself. Poor Marjorie! Poor kitty!
| 701 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:07:42pm |
re: #692 Stanley Sea
OT, anyone want to learn about sexual relationships??? (heh) this chart
The chart does not feature shoe strings, and is therefore invalid. Or more valid. Nevamind.
| 702 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:07:42pm |
re: #690 webevintage
I don’t know how vet treatments got so outrageously expensive. It used to be affordable. Now I can’t get out of the vet, even for shots, without plunking down about $200. It’s horrifying if you ask me.
| 703 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:07:56pm |
re: #696 SanFranciscoZionist
Paralegals, make a ton of money, if they’re good.
BTW, I think you would be good at anything you chose to do.
So, you need to think about an area of the law, that you would like to be involved in, and find a GREAT attorney, who specializes in that. And, go ask for a job. My 2 cents, are worth what you paid for them!
| 704 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:08:53pm |
re: #690 webevintage
Right now he is still drugged up and lock in the pet carrier for at least the next 6 hours.
Poor little kitty.
He sounds like he’s in good hands. I’m sorry to hear about it :(
| 705 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:09:33pm |
re: #700 SanFranciscoZionist
I would be beside myself. Poor Marjorie! Poor kitty!
Sorry. WebVintage. Not Marjorie. I am so confused.
| 706 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:09:33pm |
The people who badmouth teachers the loudest are the same people who could never be good teachers themselves. I’ve really appreciated my teachers more as I’ve gotten older. Frank McCourt in ‘Tis and Teacher Man had a wonderful quote about how a teacher has to essentially be everything to their students. I really liked that quote. I wish I could find his exact words because it was a lovely way of putting things. My godmother was a teacher and a wonderful woman. Miss her dearly.
| 707 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:09:40pm |
re: #698 Slumbering Behemoth
Play your cards right, and you won’t have to wear anything after tonight.
/Wait, or do I have to play my cards right? Damn! This shit is confusing.
OK, I’m not LOL’ing, but I really am. Ok?
| 708 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:10:09pm |
re: #703 Floral Giraffe
I agree. You can watch the insanity first hand and see if you enjoy it too.
| 709 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:10:22pm |
re: #698 Slumbering Behemoth
Play your cards right, and you won’t have to wear anything after tonight.
/Wait, or do I have to play my cards right? Damn! This shit is confusing.
OK, that was funny.
| 710 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:12:35pm |
re: #696 SanFranciscoZionist
I already owe so much in student loans that I will never break even. :)
You wanna add to it?
I think you’d make a fine lawyer, hon, but I’m pretty jaded. In fact, most of the lawyers I work with say the same thing LOL I will say that I’ve had the pleasure all these years to work with some extraordinarily fine, ethical people and brilliant people. A few even made the transition from teaching or nursing (oddly enough) to being a lawyer. I worked for an M.D., J.D. for 10 years whom I adored. Harvard/Princeton grad. Amazingly smart guy.
| 711 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:13:28pm |
Ah yes, where were the “Constitutionalists” then?
This is from 2008 no less and he is a Gulf War veteran.
| 712 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:14:03pm |
re: #705 SanFranciscoZionist
Sorry. WebVintage. Not Marjorie. I am so confused.
We all start to look alike after midnight :p
| 713 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:14:20pm |
re: #707 Stanley Sea
Seriously here. I’m not making you uncomfortable, am I? ‘Cuz I’ll drop that shit and go back to making jokes about shoe strings if I am.
| 714 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:14:40pm |
re: #710 marjoriemoon
You wanna add to it?
I think you’d make a fine lawyer, hon, but I’m pretty jaded. In fact, most of the lawyers I work with say the same thing LOL I will say that I’ve had the pleasure all these years to work with some extraordinarily fine, ethical people and brilliant people. A few even made the transition from teaching or nursing (oddly enough) to being a lawyer. I worked for an M.D., J.D. for 10 years whom I adored. Harvard/Princeton grad. Amazingly smart guy.
I probably have no choice but to add to it. Frankly. My current degrees won’t get me anything I want. Period. And making the change back to middle school has put some shit in perspective for me.
| 715 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:15:37pm |
re: #714 SanFranciscoZionist
I probably have no choice but to add to it. Frankly. My current degrees won’t get me anything I want. Period. And making the change back to middle school has put some shit in perspective for me.
What does Mr. SFZ suggest?
| 716 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:16:07pm |
re: #506 CuriousLurker
Howdy, Lizards. I’ll just ump right in…
OT - I googled my LGF nic yesterday and found this really weird post about me on a pro-Zionist site by a member named msmcghee (apparently in reference to a former DU member that it’s pretty obvious was disliked, to put it mildly):
WTF? Do I have some evil twin that logs in here and posts that stuff, because I don’t recall ever getting “vicious and whiney” with anyone over the Israeli/Palestinian thing. As a matter of fact, I mostly avoid talking about it altogether.
The whole thing sounds really… stalker-ish. Does every popular political blog have stalkers? I still don’t get the obsession.
Weirdness abounds.
IMO you’re the least vicious person I’ve met here. I think you simply fell into the cross-hairs of some nutjob who had a predetermined conclusion and needed a “fall gal”.
| 717 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:16:16pm |
re: #700 SanFranciscoZionist
Poor kitty! Glad he survived.
| 718 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:17:03pm |
re: #691 Slumbering Behemoth
Are you at all familiar with Bill Hicks?
LOL, yeah I learned about him here.
| 719 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:17:15pm |
re: #713 Slumbering Behemoth
Seriously here. I’m not making you uncomfortable, am I? ‘Cuz I’ll drop that shit and go back to making jokes about shoe strings if I am.
Oh hell no. I’d let you know Mr. ha
| 720 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:17:16pm |
re: #715 marjoriemoon
What does Mr. SFZ suggest?
Mr. SFZ suggest I do whatever seems best to me, with a somewhat terrified look in his eye, because I currently bring home all the money we live on.
| 721 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:19:58pm |
re: #720 SanFranciscoZionist
Mr. SFZ suggest I do whatever seems best to me, with a somewhat terrified look in his eye, because I currently bring home all the money we live on.
Ooof! Well that can be troublesome.
I know what’s like to be unhappy in your profession. I tried switching gears a few times, but nothing ever fell in place. I decided to suck it up and wait it out till retirement, but that’s me.
| 722 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:21:31pm |
Seriously, run it by Lawhawk. He may have a whole different prospective.
| 723 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:21:53pm |
re: #722 marjoriemoon
Seriously, run it by Lawhawk. He may have a whole different prospective.
Will do.
| 724 |
webevintage Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:21:56pm |
re: #702 marjoriemoon
I don’t know how vet treatments got so outrageously expensive. It used to be affordable. Now I can’t get out of the vet, even for shots, without plunking down about $200. It’s horrifying if you ask me.
And the after hours vet is more expensive the reg vet…plus they won’t bill you part of the cost like Dr. Nobel will.
| 725 |
webevintage Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:23:23pm |
I just realized how worn out I am…
Thanks for the good kitty thoughts.
| 726 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:25:05pm |
re: #714 SanFranciscoZionist
(((SFZ)))
Best wishes!
It WILL work out for you!
| 727 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:25:06pm |
re: #723 SanFranciscoZionist
Law school is not easy, there is no math, but the reading is intense. Figure you have to learn about 500 - 900 pages of stuff each week for three years. So it would be a real challenge to work a the same time. In case you can’t tell, I love what I do.
| 728 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:25:17pm |
re: #724 webevintage
And the after hours vet is more expensive the reg vet…plus they won’t bill you part of the cost like Dr. Nobel will.
Oh for sure!
My hubby got scratched near the groin (yea… ouch) but one of our younger cats. About 2 weeks later, he developed a golf ball sized lump on his thigh. We freaked. The first question the doc asked was did we have cats? How odd, we thought. Yes we do! Can I tell you, it was cat scratch fever. My husband’s lymph node got infected and he had to have it operated on. So now he calls Bossy our $10,000 kitty.
Btw, always, always, ALWAYS wash cat scratches immediately with perioxide and neosporin.
| 729 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:25:50pm |
re: #719 Stanley Sea
Okay, cool. I am pretty open with sex, sexuality, and things of that nature, and like to make jokes in that vein. Especially ones that lampoon misogyny or misandry, though I myself am neither a misogynist nor a misandrist.
| 730 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:25:51pm |
re: #692 Stanley Sea
re: #716 ClaudeMonet
IMO you’re the least vicious person I’ve met here. I think you simply fell into the cross-hairs of some nutjob who had a predetermined conclusion and needed a “fall gal”.
Thanks, CM. You’re probably right. I wonder where people find the time to do all that stalking. I mean it’s bad enough that I spend wayyy too much time around here (sometimes just lurking or wandering the pages)—I could never find time to do my work, hang out here AND stalk not only one, but two other blogs (as it seems this person was doing).
| 731 |
What, me worry? Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:27:54pm |
Ok I’m out too. Starting to fade… catch up with you lizards later :)
| 732 |
DaddyLawBucks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:27:55pm |
Good night, time for warm milk and to work on my application to NPR!
| 733 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:28:41pm |
re: #730 CuriousLurker
There are some very, scary nutjobs that stalk the posters and owner of this blog. *waves* to the stalkers. They f’ing read everything posted here. It’s horrifying, but it is, what it is.
| 734 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:30:54pm |
re: #726 Floral Giraffe
(((SFZ)))
Best wishes!
It WILL work out for you!
Thanks. I just can’t go on doing what I’ve been doing. I’m planning to start a family. I CANNOT teach middle school and do that.
| 735 |
Gus Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:33:48pm |
re: #734 SanFranciscoZionist
Thanks. I just can’t go on doing what I’ve been doing. I’m planning to start a family. I CANNOT teach middle school and do that.
[Link: www.uchastings.edu…]
| 736 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:34:34pm |
re: #733 Floral Giraffe
There are some very, scary nutjobs that stalk the posters and owner of this blog. *waves* to the stalkers. They f’ing read everything posted here. It’s horrifying, but it is, what it is.
True that. I’m familiar with the regulars, but this one was new to me so it kinda caught me off guard.
| 737 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:34:39pm |
re: #734 SanFranciscoZionist
Thanks. I just can’t go on doing what I’ve been doing. I’m planning to start a family. I CANNOT teach middle school and do that.
That, by and of itself, would likely convince you not to start a family.
| 738 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:36:55pm |
re: #724 webevintage
And the after hours vet is more expensive the reg vet…plus they won’t bill you part of the cost like Dr. Nobel will.
No animal or human you know will ever get sick or injured during regular business hours. It’s the law.
re: #737 Slumbering Behemoth
That, by and of itself, would likely convince you not to start a family.
Or not teach middle school. IF I were to become a teacher (no f’in way, my mother taught for 25 years and I had to listen to all the sh** that goes down), there’s no way I’d want to be around those animals every work day.
| 739 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:39:21pm |
re: #736 CuriousLurker
Don’t dwell on it overmuch. Those types will find a brand new obsession to focus their bullshit on in no time soon.
I’d hate to live in their world, full of imagined, scary targets that must be rhetorically shot down all the time. I’d rather fight off the hordes of a zombie apocalypse.
| 740 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:40:52pm |
re: #739 Slumbering Behemoth
Don’t dwell on it overmuch. Those types will find a brand new obsession to focus their bullshit on in no time soon.
I’d hate to live in their world, full of imagined, scary targets that must be rhetorically shot down all the time. I’d rather fight off the hordes of a zombie apocalypse.
I think they have a fabulous time. They are constantly on the front lines, threatened by the advancing jihad, and nothing even slightly real and bad ever happens to them.
I think it was Churchill who said that there is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. These guys just IMAGINE being shot at.
| 742 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:43:28pm |
re: #739 Slumbering Behemoth
Don’t dwell on it overmuch. Those types will find a brand new obsession to focus their bullshit on in no time soon.
I’d hate to live in their world, full of imagined, scary targets that must be rhetorically shot down all the time. I’d rather fight off the hordes of a zombie apocalypse.
Speaking of which, I saw “Evil Dead: The Musical” Saturday night. There were people there who drove over three hours to see it in an under-100 person theater that used to be a strip joint. I opted to NOT have a seat in the “Splat Zone”, where most of the spraying fake blood went.
The same group did “Poseidon: The Musical” a year or two ago, and has twice done “Gilligan’s Island: The Musical”.
I have to admit, these creations are more entertaining than most musicals.
| 743 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:43:57pm |
re: #739 Slumbering Behemoth
Don’t dwell on it overmuch. Those types will find a brand new obsession to focus their bullshit on in no time soon.
I’d hate to live in their world, full of imagined, scary targets that must be rhetorically shot down all the time. I’d rather fight off the hordes of a zombie apocalypse.
I won’t dwell on it. Thanks for caring though. {SB}
| 744 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:44:17pm |
re: #740 SanFranciscoZionist
No wonder I don’t hang out with those types. If their idea of a good time is finding fear and conspiracy lurking under every rock or behind every bush, I’d rather spend my time trading jokes with you gawt-damned liberals.
/
| 745 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:45:02pm |
re: #740 SanFranciscoZionist
I think they have a fabulous time. They are constantly on the front lines, threatened by the advancing jihad, and nothing even slightly real and bad ever happens to them.
I think it was Churchill who said that there is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. These guys just IMAGINE being shot at.
Heh, very astute observation.
| 746 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:49:46pm |
re: #742 ClaudeMonet
Speaking of which, I saw “Evil Dead: The Musical” Saturday night.
And thus it ends. The Seventh Seal has been broken, and Lucy’s minions will soon terrorize humanity.
I for one welcome it, if it will spare me from living in a world that can conceive of such abominations. What’s next? “From Beyond: Interpretive Dance”? No thank you. I’ll take locusts and giant scorpions, please.
| 747 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:49:50pm |
Okay, my cat keeps head butting me and trying to climb into my lap, so I guess I’d better take a break and show her some love.
Have a good night, everyone. And thanks again for the moral support.
You guys rock. ;o)
| 748 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 10:57:27pm |
re: #747 CuriousLurker
Okay, my cat keeps head butting me and trying to climb into my lap, so I guess I’d better take a break and show her some love.
This is the face of Creeping ShariaTM ladies and gentlemen, take note. Besides, everyone knows that cats are demonic pets.
/
| 749 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:25:41pm |
re: #640 marjoriemoon
There’s “Stand for Israel” and there’s another group “Stand With Us”. Neither website seems to have anything on the NY Mosque, but I may have missed it. I followed one of them for awhile. Stand With Us, I think… but they deal exclusively with the Middle East and not the U.S. They also have positive articles about Arabs.
San Francisco Voice for Israel is now an official chapter of LA based Stand With Us. SWU is a pro-active organization dedicated to educating the public with solid facts about Israel. It’s no surprise that the SWU site doesn’t bother to mention the NY community center - it has nothing to do with Israel.
| 750 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:27:06pm |
re: #748 Slumbering Behemoth
This is the face of Creeping ShariaTM ladies and gentlemen, take note.
The even commit suicide dives!
| 751 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:28:14pm |
I’m watching back episodes of Latma, an Israeli news-program/comedy thing.
I wasn’t prepared for a man with no American accent to speak of playing Barack Obama, in flippers, inviting Jews to live under the sea.
| 752 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:28:59pm |
re: #747 CuriousLurker
Okay, my cat keeps head butting me and trying to climb into my lap, so I guess I’d better take a break and show her some love.
Have a good night, everyone. And thanks again for the moral support.
You guys rock. ;o)
That’s quite an honor when your kitty head butts you. She’s letting you know you’re part of her tribe, and that she loves you.
Three cheers for kittehs.
| 753 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:30:27pm |
Okay, who wants to see a semi-pornographic, highly blasphemous, over the top hilarious cartoon?
| 754 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:31:05pm |
re: #753 Slumbering Behemoth
Okay, who wants to see a semi-pornographic, highly blasphemous, over the top hilarious cartoon?
I’m game. I like teh blasphemy.
| 755 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:34:27pm |
Speaking of blasphemy…what do you think of this?
| 756 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:35:44pm |
| 757 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:36:58pm |
re: #756 SanFranciscoZionist
Too weird for me.
And I even made it through the psychic with the crystal ball having to cut off her interview with Rabin.
I giggle every time I watch it. The loin cloth wrap thingy is a nice touch.
| 758 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:37:56pm |
re: #754 eclectic infidel
Out of respect for our host, I won’t link it directly. Not that I assume he would have a problem with it, but the subject matter it is a bit “controversial”, for lack of a better term.
Anywho, head over to Vimeo’s website, and type this into their search engine:
Judas & Jesus by Olat Encke & Claudia Romero
| 759 |
darthstar Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:53:15pm |
Just got home from a birthday party…five course meal, good wine, held in a friend’s “new” 17,000 sq ft warehouse which he intends to convert to office space for his company (the economy is improving, btw)…feeling fully sated…and the Giants WON THE PENNANT! Whoo-hoo!!
| 760 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 23, 2010 11:58:15pm |
| 761 |
Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 24, 2010 12:19:52am |
re: #758 Slumbering Behemoth
Very sexy. Lots of lovely jiggly parts.
How dare Jesus commit the sinful act of coitus interruptus!
| 762 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Oct 24, 2010 5:32:54am |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
because we couldn’t find all the troops we needed.
Dead thread by now, but that is one of the reasons I believe that we should bring back a draft. The volunteer Army has become a reflection of a very small part of rural America not all of it. We need a universal service requirement without any exceptions.
And I do say this as some one who was a volunteer.
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