Overnight Open Thread
Open • Views: 25,495
Are you sure that a floor cannot also be a ceiling? Are you absolutely certain that you go up when you walk up a staircase?
— M. C. Escher
290 comments
1 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:28:01pm |
Remember, every time you learn a bit of science an old Republican gets a cramp.
| 2 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:31:19pm |
I'm not sure of much anymore, but I think my internal gyroscope is working. Up is up and down is down.
| 3 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:37:59pm |
re: #2 ggt
I'm not sure of much anymore, but I think my internal gyroscope is working. Up is up and down is down.
You know how it is when you're walking up the stairs, and you get to the top, and you think there's one more step? I'm like that all the time.
-- Steven Wright
| 4 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:39:00pm |
re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You know how it is when you're walking up the stairs, and you get to the top, and you think there's one more step? I'm like that all the time.
-- Steven Wright
I know that feeling. It's worse when it happens on the way down.
| 6 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:43:47pm |
re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote
As long as there isn't a math test, I'm in for the long haul.
| 7 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:43:49pm |
I have to help my kid make a 3x4 model of the Circus Maxiumus from clay. Really? I can't use foam-core. I guess I gotta mess with wire and foil and shit.
Some teachers are really living in another century.
I made a volcano out of polymer clay once for him. It did turn out very cool, especially when the mentos mixture came bubbling over the top. I didn't bother with greenery or natives at the bottom, just made it all look like lava.
3 x 4 (table-top size)? how impracticable.
| 8 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:44:50pm |
| 9 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:46:04pm |
re: #7 ggt
Whenever I made models for school, I'd put little townspeople melting in lava. When we did pumpkins, mine had exploding brains that looked like brains.
I wanted to be a special effects person from a young age.
| 10 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:47:26pm |
re: #7 ggt
I have to help my kid make a 3x4 model of the Circus Maxiumus from clay. Really? I can't use foam-core. I guess I gotta mess with wire and foil and shit.
Some teachers are really living in another century.
I made a volcano out of polymer clay once for him. It did turn out very cool, especially when the mentos mixture came bubbling over the top. I didn't bother with greenery or natives at the bottom, just made it all look like lava.
3 x 4 (table-top size)? how impracticable.
thin gauge dowel rods, some putty and thick card stock paper to build a framework. Details can be built up from pencil line drawings and bas relief using additional card stock.
| 11 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:52:35pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
thin gauge dowel rods, some putty and thick card stock paper to build a framework. Details can be built up from pencil line drawings and bas relief using additional card stock.
Very cool! Now, want to draw some plans for me? I'm assuming its the Circus Maximus from Rome. I forget the century.
I thought once he was in high school, I'd be done with this kind of stuff.
Made an awesome castle once --foam core and scrap-book specialty paper--oh and magic-marker dyed toothpicks. It was a about 30" x 30". Easy transport, I could carry it on my fingertips.
Then the kids got to destruct it! Personally, I thought that was the best part.
| 12 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:54:01pm |
Frank Says:Don't expect anything,don't expect fun, don't expect friends.. if you get something...it's a BONUS
Well, I guess that is my answer.
| 13 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:55:35pm |
re: #11 ggt
Very cool! Now, want to draw some plans for me? I'm assuming its the Circus Maximus from Rome. I forget the century.
I thought once he was in high school, I'd be done with this kind of stuff.
Made an awesome castle once --foam core and scrap-book specialty paper--oh and magic-marker dyed toothpicks. It was a about 30" x 30". Easy transport, I could carry it on my fingertips.
Then the kids got to destruct it! Personally, I thought that was the best part.
| 14 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:00:18pm |
| 15 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:00:30pm |
re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Great schematic. I think foam core and a Dremel tool for detailing would work pretty well, along with some card stock affixed to the exterior surfaces.
You could probably find some plastic horses and figures from a dollar store or toy department and go all out chariot racer, with cardboard chariots. I'd spray paint them gold and make them all regal and mythical.
Of course, most kids spring this kind of stuff on you the night before it's due, so you're at a loss to make it as cool as it could've been.
| 16 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:04:55pm |
re: #15 theheat
Oh, yeah, I forgot no foam core.
I used to use Plaster of Paris. Weighed a ton, but we didn't use foam core way back then. Molds fast and can be sculpted, though.
| 17 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:04:57pm |
re: #15 theheat
Great schematic. I think foam core and a Dremel tool for detailing would work pretty well, along with some card stock affixed to the exterior surfaces.
You could probably find some plastic horses and figures from a dollar store or toy department and go all out chariot racer, with cardboard chariots. I'd spray paint them gold and make them all regal and mythical.
Of course, most kids spring this kind of stuff on you the night before it's due, so you're at a loss to make it as cool as it could've been.
No foamcore --clay. I may email the teacher about this. I had to take model building in college (design major). I can make a mean, I mean, really rad circus maximus, BUT CLAY?
Well, I guess I could roll it out, score the brick pattern and window design etc, but shit! It is so much easier to use foamcore and glue on paper printed to look like the stone/brick work. Damn, I could even cut out the paper in little stone shapes and glue it on easier than working with clay. It would have been painted bright cool colors too! I can't go into all that detail with clay in 2 weeks.
Can you tell I freakin' hate clay.
| 18 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:06:22pm |
re: #17 ggt
Why clay? Why not Plaster of Paris? You can Dremel PoP almost as easily as foam core, plus you can comp out some brick-like textures.
| 19 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:07:26pm |
Did the Circus Maximus have a false floor--well one that could be removed, they'd flood the lower levels for "Water Sports"? I wanted to make a cut of the elevations to show where the slaves had to work, the stalls for the animals and everything.
CLAY?
| 20 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:08:21pm |
re: #19 ggt
I watched something about the false floor on Discovery Channel, and IIRC, it was a fallacy.
| 21 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:08:29pm |
re: #18 theheat
Why clay? Why not Plaster of Paris? You can Dremel PoP almost as easily as foam core, plus you can comp out some brick-like textures.
PoP can shatter if the model falls. I can't see it making it thru a car ride, transport in the snow and ice and a school full of teenage boys.
| 22 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:08:47pm |
re: #19 ggt
Did the Circus Maximus have a false floor--well one that could be removed, they'd flood the lower levels for "Water Sports"? I wanted to make a cut of the elevations to show where the slaves had to work, the stalls for the animals and everything.
CLAY?
That was the Coliseum.
| 23 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:09:10pm |
| 24 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:10:04pm |
re: #21 ggt
PoP can shatter if the model falls. I can't see it making it thru a car ride, transport in the snow and ice and a school full of teenage boys.
| 25 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:10:26pm |
re: #21 ggt
Clay blows... Weighs a ton, stinks... the only fun part is smooshing it afterwards.
| 26 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:13:01pm |
re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Card stock over a corrugated cardboard structure set with a hot glue gun, maybe?
| 27 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:15:59pm |
re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Have tons of it already. Love that stuff.
I also have stacks of the cardboard they use to form the shirts at the dry-cleaners. White Gloss on one-side. Not too thick and very sturdy. Comes in handy.
My hands don't work as well as they did when my kid was younger, so my supplies have dwindled on most other stuff. But dowelrod and most of it is easy and cheap enough to obtain.
They make this newer stuff called Model Magic --it's kind of a soft form of clay. I'm wondering if it comes in a form that I can make thin enough. Would weigh much less than clay or Pop. Polymer clay would give the best color, but it is very expensive.
hmmm,
I think the rest of the Lizards are probably bored with my ramblings.
thanks Kragar and theheat for your help and suggestions!
| 28 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:16:42pm |
re: #26 theheat
Card stock over a corrugated cardboard structure set with a hot glue gun, maybe?
Several approaches. You could make a framework and use card stock as sheeting or you could go with a slot and tab approach and build it in sections. For the various arches, you could make a template and trace them in at the correct interval.
| 29 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:17:37pm |
Brick wall scrapbooking paper. Printable Stone Wall Scrapbooking paper. And some more, better, stone wall paper here.
| 30 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:19:45pm |
Holy moly, here's a whole Coliseum action set, complete with Coliseum.
| 31 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:22:32pm |
re: #30 theheat
Holy moly, here's a whole Coliseum action set, complete with Coliseum.
I don't think its quite to scale.
| 32 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:23:51pm |
re: #27 ggt
But wait, there's more! I found a realistic plastic chariot set with charioteers.
This would be closer to scale. Awesome.
| 33 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:24:58pm |
| 34 |
Kragar Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:27:46pm |
The joys of model wargamming, here is an entire Roman Empire line
[Link: shop.warlordgames.co.uk...]
| 35 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:28:44pm |
re: #33 freetoken
Hey, in my secret garden, the dinosaurs ate the daywalkers. They weren't chariot-friendly carnivores. They didn't do parlor tricks. Mine had big jagged pieces of flesh hanging from their teeth.
Which is why I didn't grow up to enjoy a career as a creationist bible illustrator.
| 36 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:37:30pm |
Ah, here we go! HOW TO BUILD A MODEL OF THE CIRCUS MAXIMUS.
It had a link to a good picture, anyway.
Also the damn thing burned a couple of times and was rebuilt. The pictures of it's current state make it look like a badly kept little league field.
| 37 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:39:01pm |
re: #32 theheat
But wait, there's more! I found a realistic plastic chariot set with charioteers.
This would be closer to scale. Awesome.
And the seller is littlegreenmenstore
Do you think it is a sign from the god, Mars? (even tho they are Summerian)
| 38 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:43:45pm |
I google-earthed it. Very cool.
Too bad I can't print it for a reference. I think the river would add a nice touch.
| 41 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:50:48pm |
Haters, hating on the hate.
Nothing but hate, Not a positive emotion.
| 42 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:54:57pm |
REALLY awesome graphics from this guy, Robert Cole.
| 44 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:55:25pm |
| 45 |
theheat Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:58:40pm |
re: #42 ggt
Those are awesome. Apparently, quite a few people have delved into the details and really done some impressive work. You should be sufficiently inspired, if not a bit overwhelmed. This is almost ship in a bottle type stuff at this level of detail.
| 46 |
theheat Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:00:34am |
This can be time-consuming and is not recommended for beginners.
Ruh roh.
//
| 47 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:03:45am |
I guess these guys really want to build another on the cite and make a go of it.
Renaissance Fair meets Medieval Times.
| 48 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:04:30am |
re: #45 theheat
Those are awesome. Apparently, quite a few people have delved into the details and really done some impressive work. You should be sufficiently inspired, if not a bit overwhelmed. This is almost ship in a bottle type stuff at this level of detail.
I KNOW! They are absolutely beautiful.
Big bucks!
| 49 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:07:48am |
I originally suggested he do a model of Roman Roads. Apparently the teacher thought there wasn't enough material to do a whole project on!
Really?!!!
| 50 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:10:15am |
re: #49 ggt
I originally suggested he do a model of Roman Roads. Apparently the teacher thought there wasn't enough material to do a whole project on!
Really?!!!
The teacher is an idiot then.
| 51 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:10:55am |
re: #41 Floral Giraffe
To build on that about which Louis referred in that song...
Deserts have sand.
Oceans have water.
etc., etc., etc.,
The stalkers stalk because, well, that is what they do. That is what they are.
Haters hate because that is what they do. That is what they know.
That's why I don't spend any time on following what stalkers do, write, or say because I accept that they have fully become whatever ... they simply aren't worth the caloric expenditure it would require of me to fire synapses to give them any consideration.
Thus I encourage people to just ignore the stalkers/flouncers. And, in the end, that is what they will detest the most - knowing that people won't give them a second thought because of the worthlessness of their efforts.
| 52 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:14:01am |
I'm seriously appalled that anyone at all familiar with Rome would discount the roads.
| 53 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:16:16am |
re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm seriously appalled that anyone at all familiar with Rome would discount the roads.
I know. What can you do? It's not worth a piss-fight with the teacher. (a LATIN teacher--old school-Vatican I and all that). For whatever reason, she has her idea of how the projects should be done and what projects are to be done.
| 54 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:17:17am |
re: #7 ggt
Are you gonna put little lions and Christians in this time?
| 55 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:17:50am |
re: #53 ggt
I take it she wouldn't want the brothels in the project either?
| 56 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:18:32am |
This is supposedly a picture of the current state of the Circus Maximus? Anyway, what does it look like it was built of --it looks redish. Stone, concrete with broken down facade of what? It's all redish.
| 57 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:19:17am |
re: #55 freetoken
I take it she wouldn't want the brothels in the project either?
With realistic phallas's as signs of the establishments business?
| 58 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:20:20am |
re: #54 ralphieboy
Are you gonna put little lions and Christians in this time?
I think that would be the Coliseum, not the Circus Maximus. The CM was basically a horse-racing track. I don't know about betting windows tho . . .
| 59 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 12:24:34am |
All right, I've gotta sleep.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread.
Have a great morning all!
| 60 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 9, 2011 1:11:03am |
"There are no doors here, Jon. only vengeful shadows."
| 63 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 3:17:48am |
| 64 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 3:23:09am |
In case anyone missed it, CNN released a poll yesterday on favorites for Presidential candidates. Here's the PDF of the results:
[Link: i2.cdn.turner.com...]
As you can see (on pg 3), Sarah Palin™ has improved in this latest survey, among self declared Republicans, to her highest level of support (19%) since this series of polls began almost a year ago!
She also tops the leader board on the "second choice" question.
| 65 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 9, 2011 3:33:59am |
We are dealing with folks whose memories are incredibly short and simply snap back to grid as time passes.
And the farther the debacle of 2008 recedes into history, the more attractive Sarah will become to the Republicans.
| 68 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:42:10am |
A quote to start the day:
“Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions…
Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the ‘new, wonderful good society’ which shall now be Rome’s, interpreted to mean ‘more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.’ Julius was always an ambitious villain, but he is only one man.”
– Cicero
| 69 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:43:25am |
A quote from former Sec Def Policy Chief Eric Edelman on the acquisition process of the military (my current job)
“You ever read Superman comic books? Well, acquisitions is like the Bizarro universe. Everything is reversed; the world is square, not round.”
| 70 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:46:46am |
| 71 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:50:33am |
re: #70 Obdicut
An unjust peace is better than a just war.
-- Cicero
Quousque tandem, Obdicut, abutere patientia nostra?
| 72 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:50:41am |
Following up on my stories of the coming Iowa caucuses - Tim Pawlenty has given his first speech to The Family Leader, the religious right group that is trying to steer the caucuses, and Ron Paul has announced that he too will be added to the list of politicians bowing speaking to The Family Leader.
First the Ron Paul story: Ron Paul to speak at Iowa presidential series
GOP Rep. Ron Paul has accepted the invitation of an influential social conservative group in Iowa to headline its presidential lecture series next month.
The Family Leader, a group with influence in Iowa's presidential caucuses, announced over the weekend that the Texas congressman has accepted its invitation.
Paul, a Texas congressman, will deliver a "pro-family lecture" on March 7. He has said he has not yet made up his mind on whether to run for president next year.
[...]
The Family Leader's lecture series, which goes through August, gives Iowans a chance "to become better informed on the pro-family vision of each lecturer," according to a news release announcing Paul's participation. The lectures will be videotaped, sent out to the group's mailing list and posted on its website.
Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., speaks on April 11 and former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum is on tap for May 2. Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, and Herman Cain, former CEO of Godfather's Pizza, have also confirmed they will participate.
Oh boy, "pro-family"... I guess they meant to say anti-abortion-in-any-circumstance and teh-ghey-iz-evul .
Anyway, Pawlenty spoke and drew some press coverage Monday. From the Des Moines Register Blog: Pawlenty walks fine line on matter of his faith
During a speech Monday to The Family Leader, a Christian policy group, he offered no personal testimony or stories about his faith, except to say that he had a regular Bible study when he was governor.
[...] I asked him in an interview about his views on teaching creationism in schools, a topic where faith and government often diverge. He said in Minnesota, they left it up to local school districts to decide whether to include “intelligent design” in the curriculum. Furthermore, he said, schools could decide whether the topic would be dealt with in a science class, or in philosophy or religion. He cited some prominent scientists who don’t rule out God’s guidance in creation, adding that those who believe that aren’t in “la-la-land.”
Pawlenty also emphasizes a need to be sensitive to those who don’t share his brand of faith. “Everybody has different styles, and my style is to try to be hopeful and optimistic and positive and try to bring people in, and not drive them away,” he said. “And it doesn’t mean I dilute what I believe or I dilute my values or dilute my positions. It’s just the way I present them.”
[...]
Republican presidential candidates, especially those who hope to compete in the Iowa caucuses, can’t escape talking about their faith. The Family Leader is only the most overt Iowa group in its approach of vetting candidates based primarily on issues of faith. Pawlenty’s non-threatening approach helps explain how he’s been successful as a fiscal and social conservative in left-leaning Minnesota. The question is how it’ll play with those for whom wearing faith on the sleeve is far too quiet and subtle. [...]
Yup, creationism will be important to the GOP Iowa caucuses.
(cont)
| 73 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:51:57am |
re: #70 Obdicut
An unjust peace is better than a just war.
-- Cicero
Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
-- Fry
/
| 74 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:52:53am |
re: #70 Obdicut
"Nothing is more unreliable than the populace, nothing more obscure than human intentions, nothing more deceptive than the whole electoral system."
Cicero
| 75 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:53:28am |
(cont)
The CNN story on Pawlenty's visit, Pawlenty says he can win in 2012
The likely 2012 presidential candidate spoke in Sioux City, Iowa, on Monday as part of a lecture series sponsored by the Family Leader [...] in a speech threaded with his moral values.
With his wife, Mary, by his side, Pawlenty touted his belief that marriage is "between a man and woman" and his pro-life history.
"(It is) hard to have family life unless you respect life," Pawlenty said. "It says in our founding documents and in the Bible that we are to respect life, not destroy life." [...]
Pawlenty evidently has studied at the world renowned Bachmann School of History. Continuing on with the CNN story:
When addressing his faith, he said his words weren't those of a "politician passing through town," because this is a nation "founded under God."
"First and foremost we don't want to be a country that turns away from God, we want to be a country that turns toward God," Pawlenty said.
Sounds like he graduated summa cum laude from the Bachmann School of History.
The last news piece on Pawlenty's latest visit to Iowa: Pawlenty in Iowa: American society must ‘elevate traditional marriage’
Nearly every public policy issue that can be named has a direct impact on the very foundation of American society, according to former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, which is a traditional marriage consisting of one man and one woman.
Pawlenty, [who indicated he'll run], spoke on a litany of issues ranging from the economy to freedom of religion to education to health care, bringing each one back to his primary focus on the family. The remarks were made on the University of Iowa campus at the first of many lecture events featuring national conservatives hosted by The Family Leader, a state-run advocacy group that acts as an umbrella organization for the Iowa Family Policy Center and the formerly federally funded Marriage Matters.
Pawlenty began his public remarks by discussing why he believes the U.S. is a Christian nation.
“That isn’t just my editorial comment,” he said. “It’s in our founding documents.”
Ok, they'll probably end up naming a professorial chair after Pawlenty at the Bachmann School of History.
Pawlenty applauded Bob Vander Plaats, head of The Family Leader, for “being a champion for saying and doing, and pushing and promoting and leading efforts to try to highlight, encourage and support families.”
Vander Plaats, as I have often written here, heads one of the most rabidly theocratic groups in Iowa.
The Iowa Independent asked if Pawlenty’s discussion of families as the building blocks of society included all families as currently recognized under Iowa law, and if he agreed with Vander Plaats’ and The Family Leader’s continued advocacy to roll back marriage rights for same-sex couples.
“The Family Leader and other organizations have taken a position in favor of traditional marriage. I don’t distance myself from that position — I embrace it,” he said. “I support the notion that we, as a society, should continue to elevate traditional marriage, that it should remain as between a man and a woman, and that all other domestic relationships are not the same as traditional marriage. That’s my view. It’s not something that I’ve changed or evolved on or need to distance from because I strongly believe it.”
Pawlenty explicitly endorses The Family Leader's position, so let's be clear what is being said here.
(continued)
| 76 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:54:07am |
re: #69 rwdflynavy
A quote from former Sec Def Policy Chief Eric Edelman on the acquisition process of the military (my current job)
“You ever read Superman comic books? Well, acquisitions is like the Bizarro universe. Everything is reversed; the world is square, not round.”
Morning--Had to take the basic Defense Aquisition University courses to get my DLA job in Israel. Did some of it at Wright Pat.
| 77 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:54:30am |
| 78 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:55:26am |
| 79 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:56:12am |
(cont)
As I've discussed several times now, Vander Plaats heads a group called The Family Leader, itself a new repackaging of the previous groups such as The Iowa Family Policy Center. Vander Plaats and the IFPC lead the recall of 3 Iowa Supreme Court justices because they dared to rule, in what scholars agree is an accurate reading of the Iowa Constitution, that it was unconstitutional to forbid gay marriage according to the Iowa Constitution. This forcing out of Supreme Court justices not for any misconduct on the part of the justices but because of religious beliefs is unprecedented, and it really deserves more attention. I consider it the first real successful step towards theocracy.
Anyway, the IFPC (now organizational a subset of The Family Leader) not only campaigned against the justices. It has been promoting a bigoted, anti-gay campaign that compares exposing children to homosexuality as being worse than second-hand smoke exposure. I've brought this up before.
So someone tried to call Vander Plaats on this, and look - now he denies it: Vander Plaats denies involvement in anti-gay seminars
[The] man behind one of the state’s largest socially conservative political networks denied Monday that he had anything to do with a seminar series that presented homosexuality and its “second-hand effects” as a public health threat.But the organization’s website continues to advertise the seminars, and the leadership of its subsidiaries have repeatedly said homosexuality is as dangerous as second-hand smoke.
Bob Vander Plaats, who heads The Family Leader, pushed back during a press conference when his guest, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, was asked if he agreed with the seminar’s conclusion that homosexuality is a bigger public health threat than smoking.
[...]
Vander Plaats said in the press conference, and confirmed during a one-on-one interview with The Iowa Independent following the Pawlenty appearance, that The Family Leader had no role in the seminars many deemed so controversial, saying it could be a product of the Iowa Family Policy Center (IFPC). The Family Leader is an umbrella organization that includes IFPC and the formerly federally funded counseling program Marriage Matters.
“We have not held seminars on that,” Vander Plaats told The Iowa Independent during the follow-up interview. “My guess would be that maybe it was something done earlier… you know, ‘The Other Effects’ — I don’t know how they (the IFPC) phrased it. I was not aware of it.”
When asked by The Iowa Independent how a blogger posted a screen shot of The Family Leader’s website with information about the seminar series, Vander Plaats pledged to look into it.
Chuck Hurley, who leads the Iowa Family Policy Center, made the charge in March 2010 that gay marriage was more dangerous than smoking.
“The Iowa Legislature outlawed smoking [in some public places] in an effort to improve health and reduce the medical costs that are often passed on to the state,” Hurley said at that time. “The second-hand impacts of certain homosexual acts are arguably more destructive, and potentially more costly to society than smoking.”
Days later the IFPC published information in its blog entitled: “What’s Worse — Smoking or Sodomy?” [...]
(continued)
| 80 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:56:34am |
re: #74 rwdflynavy
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(if anyone does read Latin, that shit is hilarious.)
| 81 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:56:38am |
| 82 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:56:47am |
| 83 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:56:47am |
(cont)
But wait, there's more. At the IFPC Blog one can learn even more about the IFPC, such as which blogs they list under "My Blog List". It has only 5 entries - 3 religious blogs, a conservative news org, and.... get this - The Shrieking Harpy herself! That's right, the IFPC blog luvs them some Pam Geller. (Yes I have a screen shot.)
It is to this organization that the GOP hopefuls must bow.
| 84 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:57:23am |
re: #79 freetoken
Iowa is going to be really weird this election season.
| 85 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:57:25am |
re: #80 Obdicut
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(if anyone does read Latin, that shit is hilarious.)
Mormini ius segundi porci! (or something like that, my two years of HS latin were a long time ago).
| 86 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:58:53am |
re: #84 Obdicut
Iowa is going to be really weird this election season.
Oh, wait until Bachmann speaks to this group... it's going to be really fantasy land. Or perhaps Sharron Angle will take the cake.
| 88 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:59:48am |
| 89 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:59:51am |
re: #85 rwdflynavy
Mormini ius segundi porci! (or something like that, my two years of HS latin were a long time ago).
It hasn't changed that much.
| 90 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 4:59:54am |
I suppose I could wrap that mini-tome into a Page. There is no end to these sort of things.
| 91 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:00:13am |
| 92 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:01:57am |
| 93 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:03:13am |
re: #91 freetoken
Everybody bangs on fruitcake. I love fruitcake.
| 94 |
iossarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:03:36am |
Since we've had a few quotations already, let me present this gem from Bertrand Russell (The Practice and Theory of Bolshevism):
In England men have reached the point of suspecting a good speaker, but if a man speaks badly they think he must be honest. Unfortunately, virtue is not so widely diffused as this theory would imply.
| 95 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:03:40am |
| 96 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:04:04am |
re: #88 Varek Raith
aeek'h'i ehdhihss Areinnye ehri aud?!
Stumped me. Did the Romans conquer part of the Klingon empire?
| 97 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:04:29am |
re: #96 Decatur Deb
Stumped me. Did the Romans conquer part of the Klingon empire?
Close!
That's Romulan.
Sort of.
:)
| 98 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:05:41am |
re: #95 Varek Raith
What the hell is that?!?!
Sheesh!
Should be as simple as;
We want this>make this>buy this>we have it>PEWPEWPEW!
You left out the "$$$+$$$-Overrun/(late)."
| 99 |
iossarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:05:47am |
re: #95 Varek Raith
What the hell is that?!?!
Sheesh!
Should be as simple as;
We want this>make this>buy this>we have it>PEWPEWPEW!
No law or rule or regulation about anything should be any longer than the text that you can fit on the back of a postage stamp.
There's a very good reason for this and it's: $^%& COMMENT TRUNCATED
| 100 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:07:54am |
re: #98 Decatur Deb
You left out the "$$$+$$$-Overrun/(late)."
No wonder know one knows what the hell's going on with the budget!
Or how the Pentagon "lost" a trillion bucks worth of stuff...
Lol...
| 101 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:08:09am |
re: #100 Varek Raith
No wonder no one knows what the hell's going on with the budget!
Or how the Pentagon "lost" a trillion bucks worth of stuff...
Lol...
| 102 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:10:50am |
So apparently my country's going wild that England just beat the Mongolians at the regional cup qualifiers.
| 103 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:11:37am |
re: #80 Obdicut
Navy Landing Signal Officers motto:
Rectum non Bustus.
| 104 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:15:30am |
re: #75 freetoken
(cont)
The CNN story on Pawlenty's visit, Pawlenty says he can win in 2012
Pawlenty evidently has studied at the world renowned Bachmann School of History. Continuing on with the CNN story:
Sounds like he graduated summa cum laude from the Bachmann School of History.
The last news piece on Pawlenty's latest visit to Iowa: Pawlenty in Iowa: American society must ‘elevate traditional marriage’
Ok, they'll probably end up naming a professorial chair after Pawlenty at the Bachmann School of History.
Vander Plaats, as I have often written here, heads one of the most rabidly theocratic groups in Iowa.
Pawlenty explicitly endorses The Family Leader's position, so let's be clear what is being said here.
(continued)
The traditional marriage described in the Bible is interesting enough, but I don't think I could afford the upkeep on the co-wives, concubines, and all.
| 105 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:16:13am |
re: #104 Decatur Deb
The traditional marriage described in the Bible is interesting enough, but I don't think I could afford the upkeep on the co-wives, concubines, and all.
Especially that Playa Solomon!!
| 106 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:16:38am |
re: #102 laZardo
So apparently my country's going wild that England just beat the Mongolians at the regional cup qualifiers.
Does that game involve a goat's head in any way?
| 107 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:17:30am |
re: #106 Decatur Deb
Does that game involve a goat's head in any way?
It's proper football, not dodgeball. ;)
| 108 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:18:05am |
re: #103 rwdflynavy
Navy Landing Signal Officers motto:
Rectum non Bustus.
The only way that could actually be translated in Latin:
Bustus has no virtue.
| 109 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:19:51am |
re: #108 Obdicut
The only way that could actually be translated in Latin:
Bustus has no virtue.
Jet pilots wrote it, they aren't too smart.
| 110 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:20:01am |
re: #108 Obdicut
The only way that could actually be translated in Latin:
Bustus has no virtue.
Or, actually "Bustus is flat", or, stretching a little, "Bustus is on his ass."
Or "Bustus is not in charge"
| 111 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:20:59am |
| 112 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:21:33am |
| 113 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:21:41am |
re: #109 rwdflynavy
Jet pilots wrote it, they aren't too smart.
Have I mentioned my brother's brother-in-law is this guy?
He might like to discuss that premise-- or at least say that you must have meant Air Force pilots.
| 114 |
iossarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:22:24am |
| 115 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:23:14am |
re: #113 Obdicut
Have I mentioned my brother's brother-in-law is this guy?
[Video]He might like to discuss that premise-- or at least say that you must have meant Air Force pilots.
So...
Can we, maybe, borrow a jet or two?
Armed?
We'll bring them back...
Probably...
| 116 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:23:19am |
re: #95 Varek Raith
Pardon my denseness... is "PEWPEWPEW" the sound of gunfire? I've been sitting here saying that over and over and that is the only thing that works.
I'm in a hotel. The people next door are probably a little nervous.
| 117 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:23:52am |
re: #113 Obdicut
Have I mentioned my brother's brother-in-law is this guy?
[Video]
He might like to discuss that premise-- or at least say that you must have meant Air Force pilots.
I'm a helo pilot in the Navy. If I tie your brother-in-law's hands behind his back he won't be able to talk.
My dad flew A-6's in the Navy. I worked for another A-6 guy who had the following quote about Navy Fighter Pilots:
"Big watch, little dick, trying to cash a two party out of state check in a foreign port".//
| 118 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:24:04am |
re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Pardon my denseness... is "PEWPEWPEW" the sound of gunfire? I've been sitting here saying that over and over and that is the only thing that works.
I'm in a hotel. The people next door are probably a little nervous.
It's actually laser fire.
Image: funny-pictures-ambush-cat.jpg
| 121 |
iossarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:25:50am |
re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Pardon my denseness... is "PEWPEWPEW" the sound of gunfire? I've been sitting here saying that over and over and that is the only thing that works.
I'm in a hotel. The people next door are probably a little nervous.
If it's Charlie Sheen, he's about to knock on your door.
re: #119 Obdicut
Carolus Magnus, vel Carolus Gustavus?
Carolus Filius Johannes. Rex lizardium.
| 122 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:25:58am |
| 123 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:26:26am |
re: #113 Obdicut
Have I mentioned my brother's brother-in-law is this guy?
[Video]He might like to discuss that premise-- or at least say that you must have meant Air Force pilots.
Fahh. Golden Knights do that at night without the clumsy, expensive airplanes.
| 125 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:28:34am |
re: #123 Decatur Deb
Fahh. Golden Knights do that at night without the clumsy, expensive airplanes.
[Video]
Heh, and, coincidentally, one of my ex-coworkers in San Francisco was a Golden Knight.
He also was gayer than a pink explosion in a unicorn factory.
Great guy. He just lived to jump. Nothing else mattered to him.
He got funeral detail-- I forget the military name for it-- after the Golden Knights, and, though he felt it was an important duty, after a couple years of it he couldn't take it any more.
| 126 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:28:55am |
So I put it all up in a Page. There is so much to cover on these issues. The Iowa caucuses are going to be a gold mine for the satirist.
| 127 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:30:53am |
| 128 |
theheat Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:43:27am |
re: #126 freetoken
So I put it all up in a Page. There is so much to cover on these issues. The Iowa caucuses are going to be a gold mine for the satirist.
Children of the Corn, Mobilized.
| 129 |
iossarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:45:19am |
| 130 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:48:26am |
re: #129 iossarian
Vocab was always my undoing.
That and grammar.
After 5 yrs of Latin and some Greek, I was finally catching on. Then the Pope said "fuggedaboudit".
| 131 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:48:46am |
| 132 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 5:50:46am |
re: #130 Decatur Deb
After 5 yrs of Latin and some Greek, I was finally catching on. Then the Pope said "fuggedaboudit".
I thought he said "zapomnij o tym."
/google translate
| 133 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:00:19am |
re: #132 laZardo
I thought he said "zapomnij o tym."
/google translate
Nah--John XXIII. "dimenticarlo".
| 134 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:20:49am |
Packers celebrate Super win with fans at Lambeau Field
[Link: www.usatoday.com...]
"Brett Favre couldn't be there but he did text them a picture showing how excited he was." - Jimmy Kimmel
| 135 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:29:02am |
Semi related:
Harry Baals building unlikely
[Link: www.journalgazette.net...]
FORT WAYNE – Despite garnering far more support in an online poll than the thicket of other suggestions, residents shouldn’t expect Fort Wayne’s new government center to be named after the city’s longest tenured mayor.
....
Baals – pronounced “balls” by the then-mayor but “bales” by his descendents – became the Republican nominee for mayor in 1934 and was elected for three successive terms.
| 136 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:30:18am |
re: #135 RogueOne
I'd still vote for a Dick Wadhams community center.
| 137 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:35:12am |
re: #136 laZardo
I love how the family changed the pronunciation of their name. It was Harry's brother Dick that suggested it.
| 138 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:53:14am |
re: #137 RogueOne
I love how the family changed the pronunciation of their name. It was Harry's brother Dick that suggested it.
Especially since Miss Schaver didn't want to drop her last name after marrying him.
| 139 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:55:53am |
Lawrence Wright, author of the excellent "The Looming Tower" was on Fresh Air yesterday with a bit of interesting history of the Muslim Brotherhood and what part they are playing in the current Egyptian ruckus. Listen here.
| 140 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:03:54am |
re: #104 Decatur Deb
What is this traditional marriage they speak of?
Abraham had a wife Sarah, and impregnated his servant Hagar to have two kids - Isaac and Ishmail.
Jacob had two wives, Leah and Rachel (and impregnated two servants) to give him 12 sons, and several daughters.
That's some serious upkeep.
| 141 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:07:16am |
re: #72 freetoken
Once, just once, I would like a candidate to come out and say he (or she) is "anti-family".
| 142 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:13:19am |
The Family Leader will not promote Pawlenty until he captures moose and squirrel and brings them to Iowa...
| 143 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:15:08am |
re: #141 garhighway
Once, just once, I would like a candidate to come out and say he (or she) is "anti-family".
They do, at least to some people. You just have to translate it. "I support, same sex marriage." "I support legal access to abortion." "I support women's equality and rights." "I believe in the separation of church and state."
OMG ANTI-FAMILY!
///
| 144 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:15:22am |
re: #142 oaktree
The Family Leader will not promote Pawlenty until he captures moose and squirrel and brings them to Iowa...
"Well this is a pickle...actually its more of a kumquat."
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:15:49am |
re: #140 lawhawk
What is this traditional marriage they speak of?
Abraham had a wife Sarah, and impregnated his servant Hagar to have two kids - Isaac and Ishmail.
Jacob had two wives, Leah and Rachel (and impregnated two servants) to give him 12 sons, and several daughters.That's some serious upkeep.
There's a lot to be said for the Samoan traditional family.
Before the church and government took hold of the situation, a chief in his lifetime might be legally married fifty or more times. The high chiefs yielded to the wish of their fellow councilmen in order to be honoured and supported legally. In village function the high chief is greatly honoured when all his children from many villages with relatives from their mothers' side, come with voluntary contributions to defray the expenses of the occasion. Evidently, this is the reason why the more wives the high chief has the better they liked it in the village. All the chief's children are always loyal and they also consider it a great honour to them to be present in all the village functions, to serve and help their father.
The kings' love affairs are somewhat different. It was common practice among the nobility for the princess of high-ranking village maid to do the proposing, not the king. In the formal procedure, the princess or village maid would go to the king's palace, accompanied by one high talking chief. They would be carrying an Ie-Toga, some fine mats and tapa cloths. Before the king, she would bow and say "I was sent by my father to take care of Your Majesty's bedding." The talking chief then completes the proposing speech and announces the tribute as he presents the princess' token of love which she had brought to the king. This action is known as Faa-Manamea (ladies proposing). Should the proposal be given the king's consent, the high talking chief leaves the princess in the palace. Elaborate celebration of the king's wedding follows, in which his whole dominion participates in the feasting and awarding of dowries. "
| 146 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:16:36am |
re: #143 Jadespring
They do, at least to some people. You just have to translate it. "I support, same sex marriage." "I support legal access to abortion." "I support women's equality and rights." "I believe in the separation of church and state."
OMG ANTI-FAMILY!
///
Sad but true.
| 147 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:16:51am |
re: #145 Decatur Deb
They see him rollin', they hatin', patrollin they tryin to catch him ridin dirty.
| 148 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:20:14am |
re: #140 lawhawk
At least Lot's daughters took the initiative in preserving their lineage.
| 149 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:22:30am |
re: #147 laZardo
They see him rollin', they hatin', patrollin they tryin to catch him ridin dirty.
Trying to google that meme--it goes very deep and wide.
| 150 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:24:14am |
| 151 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:25:58am |
| 152 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:29:29am |
re: #150 rwdflynavy
Try this one...
[Video]
Brilliant.. (God, #2 son is a nerd. He was a highschool AV projectionist, and once gave us a really great power strip.)
| 153 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:30:12am |
Predictably, I'm only here at this hour because I haven't slept yet and I really just had to have one more beer and draw one more weird thing so there you have it
| 154 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:30:14am |
OT regarding Egypt, courtesy of Andy Borowitz:
[Link: www.borowitzreport.com...]
| 155 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:32:45am |
re: #153 WindUpBird
Predictably, I'm only here at this hour because I haven't slept yet and I really just had to have one more beer and draw one more weird thing so there you have it
Are you in any way related to EngineSkye by any chance?
/unfortunately, only you and I know what I mean.
| 156 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:37:07am |
So, VP Biden and the Obama Administration have announced a $53 billion high speed rail program that would create a high speed rail (HSR) network.
I've got more than a few problems with the proposal, mostly because it throws the money scattershot around the nation in the hopes of winning support, rather than concentrating the money on a few projects and lines that would actually be able to support HSR - like the Northeast Corridor (NEC).
The NEC is the only network in the country that even resembles HSR, and it's significantly lower speed than anything overseas, primarily because of decreipt infrastructure. Yet, the proposal doesn't actually send money to cover NEC projects, even though there are several that are more than shovel ready.
Besides the ARC/Gateway tunnel project that has been beset by political squabbling and contentions of cost overruns (but the replacement tunnel is pushing $13.5 billion compared to the canceled $8.7 billion - not counting the $1 to $5 billion in overruns that would have hit NJ taxpayers hard), there are projects that must be done to improve reliability and speed on the NEC. That includes the Portal Bridge project, that would cost close to $2 billion. Where's the money for that project, which would allow for a 50% increase in speed along that segment - from 60 mph to 90 mph.
It's odd that the Administration would talk HSR but ignore the one place in the nation where HSR would be most readily embraced and critical to reducing congestion on the roads and in the region's airports that are beset by chronic delays due to commuter flights.
| 157 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:37:26am |
re: #80 Obdicut
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(if anyone does read Latin, that shit is hilarious.)
My latin & my memory are so rusty, it's easier to google it. Then I see the translation and think "duh"!
| 158 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:37:52am |
Hey ggt--the red building behind the Circus is red brick, Nero's palace, IIRC. When new, it would have been clad with marble veneer. The Roman's faked it a lot to keep up with the Claudians.
| 159 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:38:37am |
re: #157 ggt
My latin & my memory are so rusty, it's easier to google it. Then I see the translation and think "duh"!
I like Google Translate's special effect for translating Latin...
| 160 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:40:54am |
re: #110 Obdicut
Or, actually "Bustus is flat", or, stretching a little, "Bustus is on his ass."
Or "Bustus is not in charge"
I was thinking: don't bust your ass.
| 161 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:41:56am |
re: #156 lawhawk
So, VP Biden and the Obama Administration have announced a $53 billion high speed rail program that would create a high speed rail (HSR) network.
I've got more than a few problems with the proposal, mostly because it throws the money scattershot around the nation in the hopes of winning support, rather than concentrating the money on a few projects and lines that would actually be able to support HSR - like the Northeast Corridor (NEC).
The NEC is the only network in the country that even resembles HSR, and it's significantly lower speed than anything overseas, primarily because of decreipt infrastructure. Yet, the proposal doesn't actually send money to cover NEC projects, even though there are several that are more than shovel ready.
Besides the ARC/Gateway tunnel project that has been beset by political squabbling and contentions of cost overruns (but the replacement tunnel is pushing $13.5 billion compared to the canceled $8.7 billion - not counting the $1 to $5 billion in overruns that would have hit NJ taxpayers hard), there are projects that must be done to improve reliability and speed on the NEC. That includes the Portal Bridge project, that would cost close to $2 billion. Where's the money for that project, which would allow for a 50% increase in speed along that segment - from 60 mph to 90 mph.
It's odd that the Administration would talk HSR but ignore the one place in the nation where HSR would be most readily embraced and critical to reducing congestion on the roads and in the region's airports that are beset by chronic delays due to commuter flights.
Has anyone priced real HSR for the Northeast? I would think that the right-of-way costs alone would be staggering. (You can't use the Amtrak/Conrail r-o-w for HSR: it's too twisty. You have to straighten it, which means condemning and buying up a whole bunch of real estate in NJ, NY RI and Mass.)
I assume that real HSR there would be staggeringly expensive.
| 162 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:42:16am |
re: #157 ggt
This one is probably most descriptive these days of the right wing:
Cave ab homine unius libri
| 163 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:42:53am |
re: #162 lawhawk
This one is probably most descriptive these days of the right wing:
Cave ab homine unius libri
Kindle makes that obsolete.
| 164 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:43:27am |
re: #162 lawhawk
This one is probably most descriptive these days of the right wing:
Cave ab homine unius libri
They have two books; the Old and the New Testament
| 165 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:44:13am |
re: #161 garhighway
Has anyone priced real HSR for the Northeast? I would think that the right-of-way costs alone would be staggering. (You can't use the Amtrak/Conrail r-o-w for HSR: it's too twisty. You have to straighten it, which means condemning and buying up a whole bunch of real estate in NJ, NY RI and Mass.)
I assume that real HSR there would be staggeringly expensive.
I think you bring up a good point, Gar. But on the basis of population density, I also am questioning the approach the Administration is taking in regards to identifying and funding the best 'bang for the buck' projects.
| 166 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:45:09am |
re: #161 garhighway
Has anyone priced real HSR for the Northeast? I would think that the right-of-way costs alone would be staggering. (You can't use the Amtrak/Conrail r-o-w for HSR: it's too twisty. You have to straighten it, which means condemning and buying up a whole bunch of real estate in NJ, NY RI and Mass.)
I assume that real HSR there would be staggeringly expensive.
I've seen plans to 'fly' HSR over portions of the Interstates or existing roads.
| 167 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:45:13am |
re: #156 lawhawk
But if this is pretty much strictly a political decision why spend it in the NEC that already generally votes Democratic when you can instead toss the $53 billion all about the country where it might garner more support for your party come 2012?
(sorta /)
I suspect that if HSR is going to get off the ground anywhere *but* the NEC it's going to need seeding/support from the Federal (and state) level, and probably be subsidized even after that. The capitalization of such a project is simply beyond the expected ROI or opportunity cost for a serious private venture to take the risk.
The competition is pretty strong. If you want to get there fast you fly. If you want to get their with cargo you drive. If you want to get there cheap you take a bus. Insufficient demand for passenger rail outside of the NEC given those conditions and current energy economy.
| 168 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:45:47am |
Goood morn, lizards! I was up at 6:30 am PST to wash my cooking uniform (amazing how white attracts food stains to it), and it is drying as I type. I'm decorating cakes now...made two cakes yesterday, both chiffon (one layer yellow, the other chocolate) with a meringue buttercream icing, flavoured with coffee. Out of 16 slices, 15 slices sold! Very gratifying. I'll continue to decorate cakes today and then on Thursday I'll switch puddings and creams. For those considering culinary training with a reputable school, I highly recommend City College of San Francisco.
| 169 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:45:58am |
re: #161 garhighway
It would probably cost upwards of $250 billion, because as you say they would need to establish entirely new ROW.
That's why you've got proposals for HSR in places like the central valley in CA, CA to Vegas, and Tampa/Orlando, because the acquisition costs for dedicated HSR is so much less.
If Amtrak improved its power supply/support/signaling, and eliminated the bottlenecks outside Baltimore and the Portal Bridge/Hudson River tunnel, travel times could be reduced to make the trip between DC and Boston much more competitive with air travel, and could allow for a critical mass to permanently shift travel plans.
Heck, HSR would be viable for NYC to Albany because the row could follow the NYS Thruway but that hasn't received nearly the funding or attention it deserves even though there's enough traffic to justify that routing.
| 170 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:47:02am |
re: #166 Decatur Deb
I've seen plans to 'fly' HSR over portions of the Interstates or existing roads.
It's almost 2015, dammit! Where's my flying trains!?
/and auto-tying shoes.
| 171 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:48:10am |
re: #158 Decatur Deb
Hey ggt--the red building behind the Circus is red brick, Nero's palace, IIRC. When new, it would have been clad with marble veneer. The Roman's faked it a lot to keep up with the Claudians.
Thank you, very, very much!
| 172 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:48:21am |
re: #170 laZardo
It's almost 2015, dammit! Where's my flying trains!?
/and auto-tying shoes.
They postponed the shoes because some rogue Israeli software virus got into the laces and made them tie to the laces of the other shoe instead of sticking to one foot...
| 173 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:49:23am |
re: #172 oaktree
They postponed the shoes because some rogue Israeli software virus got into the laces and made them tie to the laces of the other shoe instead of sticking to one foot...
Oh right. Sneaxnet.
| 174 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:50:54am |
re: #162 lawhawk
This one is probably most descriptive these days of the right wing:
Cave ab homine unius libri
HA! my first thought was: Be aware of the man with one freedom!
But yes, as my Dad used to say: Preachers, Politicians and Professionals! If he saw a bible on the front seat of the car of a customer, he would turn them down.
| 175 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:51:13am |
re: #170 laZardo
It's almost 2015, dammit! Where's my flying trains!?
/and auto-tying shoes.
In China.
| 176 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:51:43am |
re: #168 eclectic infidel
Goood morn, lizards! I was up at 6:30 am PST to wash my cooking uniform (amazing how white attracts food stains to it), and it is drying as I type. I'm decorating cakes now...made two cakes yesterday, both chiffon (one layer yellow, the other chocolate) with a meringue buttercream icing, flavoured with coffee. Out of 16 slices, 15 slices sold! Very gratifying. I'll continue to decorate cakes today and then on Thursday I'll switch puddings and creams. For those considering culinary training with a reputable school, I highly recommend City College of San Francisco.
Cake!
| 177 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:52:00am |
re: #175 Decatur Deb
That one goes all the way to Tibet. The terminal station was built over some old temple.
/
| 178 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:53:11am |
re: #170 laZardo
It's almost 2015, dammit! Where's my flying trains!?
/and auto-tying shoes.
heh, you thought you have that hover-board by now, didn't you?
| 179 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:53:51am |
re: #177 laZardo
That one goes all the way to Tibet. The terminal station was built over some old temple.
/
Makes you wonder about our self-imposed paralysis.
| 180 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:53:53am |
I gotta take the dog to the vet.
Have a great morning all!
| 181 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:54:35am |
re: #178 ggt
And you wonder why us late-80s kids are so horribly disillusioned. ;_;
/though to be fair, that hoverboard did start off as a hoverrazorscooter.
| 182 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:55:30am |
re: #179 Decatur Deb
Makes you wonder about our self-imposed paralysis.
Yeah. All the important right-of-way dilemmas in the Northeast happen to be over the rights to the Jersey Shore nightclubs and residences.
| 183 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:56:33am |
re: #181 laZardo
And you wonder why us late-80s kids are so horribly disillusioned. ;_;
/though to be fair, that hoverboard did start off as a hoverrazorscooter.
Well, at least double neckties never became a fashion statement.
| 184 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:56:43am |
re: #181 laZardo
And you wonder why us late-80s kids are so horribly disillusioned. ;_;
/though to be fair, that hoverboard did start off as a hoverrazorscooter.
| 185 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:56:47am |
re: #169 lawhawk
It would probably cost upwards of $250 billion, because as you say they would need to establish entirely new ROW.
That's why you've got proposals for HSR in places like the central valley in CA, CA to Vegas, and Tampa/Orlando, because the acquisition costs for dedicated HSR is so much less.
If Amtrak improved its power supply/support/signaling, and eliminated the bottlenecks outside Baltimore and the Portal Bridge/Hudson River tunnel, travel times could be reduced to make the trip between DC and Boston much more competitive with air travel, and could allow for a critical mass to permanently shift travel plans.
Heck, HSR would be viable for NYC to Albany because the row could follow the NYS Thruway but that hasn't received nearly the funding or attention it deserves even though there's enough traffic to justify that routing.
I agree that the NEC is the best place for high speed rail, but I have a hard time getting critical of the decision to not pursue it, because I think that cost-efficiency matters.
The idea of looking at city pairs that have sufficient air or ground traffic between them to make HSR practical works for me. (I would guess that rules out NYC-Albany, but I haven't seen that data.)
I doubt that HSR will ever be truly cheaper than air or car or bus if all the costs are loaded in, but on one level this isn't purely about that: it's a technology and jobs effort, too. (Although we'll never get an apples-to-apples on costs, since air and road have all sorts of subsidies supporting them that we never want to factor in when we talk about rail.)
But at any rate, we can't have it both ways: we don't get to rail (no pun intended) about fiscal responsibility and then bemoan the omission of a zillion dollar project in the NE. Much as I would love to take a 200 mph train to Boston.
| 186 |
Lidane Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:57:33am |
The bad news: weather here sucks and the roads are icy. Brr.
The good news: My accounting mid-term is now an online exam. Huzzah! Now hoping that the information systems guy will be as considerate. *crosses fingers*
| 187 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Feb 9, 2011 7:59:55am |
re: #186 Lidane
The bad news: weather here sucks and the roads are icy. Brr.
The good news: My accounting mid-term is now an online exam. Huzzah! Now hoping that the information systems guy will be as considerate. *crosses fingers*
Heh. Here in the SF Bay Area, we got sunny skies, warm days - heck, last weekend I stepped outside and wondered to myself, "is summer here already?"
Weather here has been funky though.
| 188 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:00:21am |
re: #185 garhighway
I...snip
I doubt that HSR will ever be truly cheaper than air or car or bus if all the costs are loaded in, but on one level this isn't purely about that: it's a technology and jobs effort, too. (Although we'll never get an apples-to-apples on costs, since air and road have all sorts of subsidies supporting them that we never want to factor in when we talk about rail.)....
It'll be cheaper when we've sucked Saudi Arabia dry, which might be sooner than expected:
[Link: minivannews.com...]
| 189 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:02:11am |
I have figured out that I will save about $20 a month on fuel expenses with my new car.
| 190 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:02:38am |
re: #177 laZardo
That one goes all the way to Tibet. The terminal station was built over some old temple.
/
The Shangri-La Express train (Peking to Lhasa) hits an altitude of over 16000 ft as it makes it way through the Himalayas. They have a car with supplementary oxygen for those passengers that can't handle the thin air.
| 191 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:06:46am |
re: #189 Alouette
I have figured out that I will save about $20 a month on fuel expenses with my new car.
That means it'll take you at least 30 years to pay back the difference!
/ :B
| 193 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:11:22am |
re: #185 garhighway
I agree that the NEC is the best place for high speed rail, but I have a hard time getting critical of the decision to not pursue it, because I think that cost-efficiency matters.
The idea of looking at city pairs that have sufficient air or ground traffic between them to make HSR practical works for me. (I would guess that rules out NYC-Albany, but I haven't seen that data.)
I doubt that HSR will ever be truly cheaper than air or car or bus if all the costs are loaded in, but on one level this isn't purely about that: it's a technology and jobs effort, too. (Although we'll never get an apples-to-apples on costs, since air and road have all sorts of subsidies supporting them that we never want to factor in when we talk about rail.)
But at any rate, we can't have it both ways: we don't get to rail (no pun intended) about fiscal responsibility and then bemoan the omission of a zillion dollar project in the NE. Much as I would love to take a 200 mph train to Boston.
A lot boils down to what the government collectively decides is the proper mode to subsidize and support. And that has varied with technologies coming on line, demogages going after one industry or another as a political expediency (or due to being lobbied), etc. etc.
The states and eventually Federal government supported canals, then railroads (which killed most of the canal system). And that went up to the point of their heavy subsidization of the Transcontinential Railroad (which made a *lot* of sense for the benefit of the country and the government.) Then, about the turn of the centry things turned on the railroads in favor of the trucking industry. And the interstate system from the 50s along with the airlines pretty much finished off rail passenger service.
And this is a two paragraph summary. It's fascinating reading in detail in a lot of these areas.
| 194 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:11:23am |
Jenny McCarthy Will Kill Us ALL! - Penn Point
"When the Measles Epidemic of 2020 wipes out humanity, blame this bimbo."
"Please don't take the words of some two-bit magician - but also don't take the words of a celebrity. Go with real science."
Does she still write for HuffPo?
| 195 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:11:25am |
re: #188 Decatur Deb
It'll be cheaper when we've sucked Saudi Arabia dry, which might be sooner than expected:
[Link: minivannews.com...]
| 197 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:16:28am |
re: #180 ggt
I gotta take the dog to the vet.
Have a great morning all!
Good luck with the vet visit!
| 198 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:17:14am |
re: #196 laZardo
Ooooh. Is this the new Bullshit!?
Heh, I don't know what that is.
I did find his constant switching from one camera to another very annoying, though.
| 199 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:17:24am |
re: #185 garhighway
From what I've read, HSR on the NEC could be comparable to flying, and time between city centers could be lower due to time at airports for screening and travel to/from city centers from the airports.
I agree that the complaints about not funding HSR have to be tempered against fiscal responsibility, but one of my biggest criticisms of the stimulus package was that a fraction actually went to infrastructure, and of that, a small percentage went to rail projects that would lead to long term improvements in reliability.
Besides, it is sometimes fiscally responsible to spend money on a certain project if it will lead to economic benefits or reduced costs down the road.
| 200 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:17:37am |
re: #198 Ericus58
Heh, I don't know what that is.
I did find his constant switching from one camera to another very annoying, though.
Bullshit! is Penn & Teller's debunking show. Good times.
| 201 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:20:18am |
re: #193 oaktree
Despite passenger rail being a huge issue in the US, freight rail is a huge advantage that the US has over the rest of the world. We ship more by tonnage and rail mile than any other country, and it results in a substantial cost/energy savings. One of the big costs with HSR is creating new ROW for passenger-only rail - since most track is shared between freight and passenger, and the freight takes priority on most routes (because it's more profitable to the freight rail lines).
| 202 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:21:21am |
re: #200 laZardo
Bullshit! is Penn & Teller's debunking show. Good times.
Ah! I'll catch some of those then - thanks.
| 203 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:22:12am |
re: #201 lawhawk
I am suprised at how much truck traffic there is on the roads in Europe and how the rail freight system is underdeveloped.
| 204 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:23:05am |
re: #202 Ericus58
Ah! I'll catch some of those then - thanks.
Lots of choice clips up on YouTube, just enter "penn teller bullshit."
| 205 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:23:19am |
In case anyone's wondering how to redesign the layout of their their website to make it completely terrible, check out the Gawker family of sites (including Gizmodo and io9, which I used to enjoy but will probably no longer visit just due to sheer annoyance).
| 206 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:27:44am |
re: #203 ralphieboy
Part of the problem is the limited routing through Switzerland and the Alps in general. That's going to be dealt with the new Gothard Base tunnel project that opens in a couple of years, that should cut freight travel time significantly from north to south, but freight traffic is a huge concern and can't be dealt with any easier than US HSR efforts - it would take huge financial investments.
Europe devotes significantly more to the passenger rail, but it's at the expense of a freight system that takes trucks off the roads.
Also, it's interesting that while China is busy touting its HSR efforts and their claims that they're going to spend $450 billion or more on HSR in the coming decade, they're getting accustomed to having massive truck traffic jams on highways in parts of the country because there is no freight rail system to handle the traffic.
| 207 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:28:38am |
re: #203 ralphieboy
I am suprised at how much truck traffic there is on the roads in Europe and how the rail freight system is underdeveloped.
Interesting question. Might be a difference between private and national development. Aren't the rail systems in most European countries essentially nationally owned from close to Day 1? And presumably a lot of the early development (especially France and Germany) would have been prioritized for potential military use.
| 208 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:36:11am |
re: #201 lawhawk
Despite passenger rail being a huge issue in the US, freight rail is a huge advantage that the US has over the rest of the world. We ship more by tonnage and rail mile than any other country, and it results in a substantial cost/energy savings. One of the big costs with HSR is creating new ROW for passenger-only rail - since most track is shared between freight and passenger, and the freight takes priority on most routes (because it's more profitable to the freight rail lines).
And part of the ROW work will be eliminating *all* the at-level crossings in the selected HSR route, which will add to the construction and maintenance costs. (Not to mention that for route of any length pretty much anywhere in the US there will be weather-related maintenance and clearing issues to take into account as well. Though if a future HSR gets stuck due to snow for a period of time it will be opportunity for a remake of _Murder On the Orient Express_.)
| 209 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:36:26am |
re: #207 oaktree
That and the trucking and transporation industries are major lobbyists: truck diesel is taxed at a much lower rate than other fuels, for example.
| 210 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:38:40am |
re: #205 negativ
In case anyone's wondering how to redesign the layout of their their website to make it completely terrible, check out the Gawker family of sites (including Gizmodo and io9, which I used to enjoy but will probably no longer visit just due to sheer annoyance).
I concur, but will still visit. The new design does suck.
| 211 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:38:50am |
re: #208 oaktree
And part of the ROW work will be eliminating *all* the at-level crossings in the selected HSR route, which will add to the construction and maintenance costs. (Not to mention that for route of any length pretty much anywhere in the US there will be weather-related maintenance and clearing issues to take into account as well. Though if a future HSR gets stuck due to snow for a period of time it will be opportunity for a remake of _Murder On the Orient Express_.)
The kiddie/daycare cars will have The Polar Express.
| 212 |
charlz Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:42:37am |
re: #206 lawhawk
Also, it's interesting that while China is busy touting its HSR efforts and their claims that they're going to spend $450 billion or more on HSR in the coming decade, they're getting accustomed to having massive truck traffic jams on highways in parts of the country because there is no freight rail system to handle the traffic.
I recall reading that China pays for HSR in part by freeing up the old primarily passenger rail routes for freight once HSR is in place.
| 213 |
treasured people Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:42:53am |
Shalom and greetings from Israel, an island of civility and sanity in a sea of angry people. There is one strong emotion you feel here: everything is possible. And I mean this in a positive way. More and more Jews are coming here to visit, to live, and to raise families because this is a place of enormous hope. Below is a link to a nice song from Israel's favorite songwriter, Naomi Shemer, of blessed memory. She performed it next to the Kinneret, also known as the Sea of Galillee or Lake Tiberias.
| 214 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:44:10am |
re: #199 lawhawk
Big problem is going to be connecting the West Cost Population centers to the rest. The mountains mean we are going to have to do some creative solutions, or we are going to be doing lot of work like this.
| 215 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:44:13am |
re: #201 lawhawk
Despite passenger rail being a huge issue in the US, freight rail is a huge advantage that the US has over the rest of the world. We ship more by tonnage and rail mile than any other country, and it results in a substantial cost/energy savings. One of the big costs with HSR is creating new ROW for passenger-only rail - since most track is shared between freight and passenger, and the freight takes priority on most routes (because it's more profitable to the freight rail lines).
Rail for freight is essential given the Rockies, Appalachians, and the extent of the Midwest and Great Plains. Mississippi River system helps a bit with north-south traffic via barge, but you need the rail for east-west movement in any scale.
IIRC, one reason the military supported the Transcontinential Railroad was to make re-supply of western forts and outposts cheaper. I believe I saw a number bandied about in a book that the US Army was spending 20-30% of it's budget on freight to get supplies to forts.
| 216 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:44:45am |
Registered since: Feb 8, 2011 at 11:19 am
No. of comments posted: 1
NEEEWWWB!
/frothingly reaches for paddle
| 218 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:45:25am |
re: #213 treasured people
Shalom and greetings from Israel, an island of civility and sanity in a sea of angry people. There is one strong emotion you feel here: everything is possible. And I mean this in a positive way. More and more Jews are coming here to visit, to live, and to raise families because this is a place of enormous hope. Below is a link to a nice song from Israel's favorite songwriter, Naomi Shemer, of blessed memory. She performed it next to the Kinneret, also known as the Sea of Galillee or Lake Tiberias.
[Video]
Baruch haba. (Welcome)
| 219 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:45:34am |
re: #203 ralphieboy
I am suprised at how much truck traffic there is on the roads in Europe and how the rail freight system is underdeveloped.
The rail networks in Europe have always been primarily for pasenger usage - as during the first great rail expansion canals/rivers/coastal sea routes carried goods from one place to another and the journeys they had to make were largely local - certainly compared to US standards.
Dedicated lines used to run from collierys/ore mines to processing plants in the earliest days of rail pulled by horses even before steam - but much of the dedicated industrial infrastructure has dissapeared.
I believe part of the problem may lay in how container ports are in relation to rail terminals - or the dissapearing nature of trunk rail routes that would have carried freight away from passenger main lines and into less densely populated areas which still house industry.
| 220 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:49:17am |
re: #214 ProLifeLiberal
Big problem is going to be connecting the West Cost Population centers to the rest. The mountains mean we are going to have to do some creative solutions, or we are going to be doing lot of work like this.
You assume that our goal is connect every population center with every other population center. I doubt that makes financial sense, unless we decide we're doing this without regard to the price (which I believe would be a mistake).
Some of the distances involved (particularly between the West Coast and the rest of the country) make HSR impractical. If you want to go from Seattle to Minneapolis, you fly. HSR will never be a better choice than flying for those kinds of trips.
| 221 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:50:38am |
re: #207 oaktree
Interesting question. Might be a difference between private and national development. Aren't the rail systems in most European countries essentially nationally owned from close to Day 1? And presumably a lot of the early development (especially France and Germany) would have been prioritized for potential military use.
German and French rail networks were destroyed during WW2 - partly why the Govts have huge interests in them - they almost had to be rebuilt from scratch and only Govt could have done it.
The UK network was private and incredibly disparate until WW2 when it was nationalised for war work - and remained nationalised after the war.
| 222 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:53:03am |
re: #220 garhighway
You assume that our goal is connect every population center with every other population center. I doubt that makes financial sense, unless we decide we're doing this without regard to the price (which I believe would be a mistake).
Some of the distances involved (particularly between the West Coast and the rest of the country) make HSR impractical. If you want to go from Seattle to Minneapolis, you fly. HSR will never be a better choice than flying for those kinds of trips.
HSR should be regional - connecting only the biggest cities in each region and then branching off, it would redcuce air travel and free way congestion.
A national US network would be impractical.
| 223 |
treasured people Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:53:20am |
re: #218 Alouette
Brucha HaNimzet (Blessed are you for being here!)
| 224 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:53:46am |
re: #220 garhighway
How extensive is the Rail System of Europe? I was imagining a copy of that (to a point) in the US.
Come to think of it, I see a need for other train systems for passengers elsewhere. Middle East should be more connected.
| 225 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:56:08am |
re: #78 rwdflynavy
I had to do a couple of those too. I love this chart (not really).
When I see something like that, I strongly suspect that it is as much a device to obscure as it an organizational tool.
The military "loses" more money annually than other bureaucracies get in their yearly budgets, in total. Eisenhower was right.
Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research -- these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.
But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.
[...]
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Yeah, we're fucked.
| 226 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:56:14am |
I used to dream of high speed rail doting the American landscape. Satellite solar power stations orbiting the globe. The proverbial "jet pack" vision of the future where mankind accelerates into the future embracing new and sustainable technology. I had those dreams and vision almost 30 years ago. Here we are 30 years later and we've barely made a dent in attaining those dreams. Our system of transportation and way of living remains much as it did 30 ago.
| 228 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:57:48am |
re: #224 ProLifeLiberal
How extensive is the Rail System of Europe? I was imagining a copy of that (to a point) in the US.
Come to think of it, I see a need for other train systems for passengers elsewhere. Middle East should be more connected.
[Link: mappery.com...]
| 230 |
Alexzander Wed, Feb 9, 2011 8:59:01am |
Another day, Another Regime to Topple: #Iran Oppostion Protesters Plan Demonstration for the 14th, #Anonymous begins #OpIran
I wonder if there is any real moment with this one, or if it is Anon hype.
| 231 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:00:13am |
re: #224 ProLifeLiberal
How extensive is the Rail System of Europe? I was imagining a copy of that (to a point) in the US.
Come to think of it, I see a need for other train systems for passengers elsewhere. Middle East should be more connected.
You can basically get anywhere in europe from anywhere else in europe if you change trains enough times.
London to Amsterdam is about 8hrs or so.
London to paris 3 hrs.
London to Zurich 8:30hrs
| 232 |
Alexzander Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:00:41am |
#AnonOps #OPIran #OperationPayback">http://twitter.com/#!/simsidii/status/35379909710987264
Dude is crazy if thats his real name.
| 233 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:00:41am |
re: #228 Walter L. Newton
[Link: mappery.com...]
Very hub-and-spoke like system centered around national capitols.
| 234 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:02:21am |
re: #226 Gus 802
I used to dream of high speed rail doting the American landscape. Satellite solar power stations orbiting the globe. The proverbial "jet pack" vision of the future where mankind accelerates into the future embracing new and sustainable technology. I had those dreams and vision almost 30 years ago. Here we are 30 years later and we've barely made a dent in attaining those dreams. Our system of transportation and way of living remains much as it did 30 ago.
we desperately need high speed rail in California. one that runs from Sac to SF, from SF to LA, from LA to San Diego. 24/7. It would open up the entire central valley and adjoining regions for both housing and employment. As you mentioned, barely a dent in this idea has been made. The auto industry has too strong a hold, to the detriment of Californians.
| 235 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:03:50am |
re: #224 ProLifeLiberal
[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...] - that covers the US passenger rail system
[Link: www.amazon.com...] - is a history of the world's major railways, including systems put in place by the Brits in India, Africa, etc., and the modern rail networks.
| 236 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:04:25am |
re: #233 oaktree
We should try to get a similar system in the United States.
| 237 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:06:27am |
re: #234 eclectic infidel
we desperately need high speed rail in California. one that runs from Sac to SF, from SF to LA, from LA to San Diego. 24/7. It would open up the entire central valley and adjoining regions for both housing and employment. As you mentioned, barely a dent in this idea has been made. The auto industry has too strong a hold, to the detriment of Californians.
At the rate we're going it will likely be the same come the year 2100. We're only 89 years away at this point in time. Some would prefer that things remain unchanged until that year comes and beyond. That they would like to see us still using gasoline powered vehicles and burning bunker oil to power our merchant fleet.
| 238 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:06:40am |
re: #236 ProLifeLiberal
We should try to get a similar system in the United States.
Heres a way to go -
(i remember a brou-ha-ha over regionsl and this map came up).
Link the major cities of the regions.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 239 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:07:34am |
re: #224 ProLifeLiberal
How extensive is the Rail System of Europe? I was imagining a copy of that (to a point) in the US.
Come to think of it, I see a need for other train systems for passengers elsewhere. Middle East should be more connected.
I'd love a system as comprehensive as Europe's, too but:
1> their point-to-point distances are generally shorter than ours, and
2> they generally acquired the r-o-w a while back when it was cheaper.
Seattle to Minneapolis is a good example. That's 1300+ miles through the Rockies with nothing meaningful in between. (No offense to Minot, South Dakota, et al, but you know what I mean.) The European counterpart would be (roughly) Paris to Moscow, plus mountains. Would that rail line exist if there was nothing in between (and if they had a really good freeway covering that route as well)? I doubt it.
We'll never have their system. It will never make sense to build that, if cost matters at all. And it has to matter.
| 241 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:10:09am |
Laters all.
I always enjoy talking railways - *massive train geek at heart*
| 242 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:10:31am |
re: #236 ProLifeLiberal
[Link: www.mapsofworld.com...]
Image: natlmap97.gif (somewhat outdated Amtrak map).
[Link: tickets.amtrak.com...] - current route atlas.
| 243 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:10:42am |
89 years which is three times the 30 years I mentioned above. 30 years in which we've essentially done nothing to change our modes. Instead we'll spend trillions (in the long run) giving the oil companies tax breaks, widening highways, building bridges to nowhere, and so on. Those 89 years will go fast even though I won't be around to see it.
| 244 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:14:24am |
Speaking of not changing my knee still hurts and feels a little worse. Maybe I'm good for making glue like a horse. Yeah, just another reminder of how we have the best healthcare in the world. I'm still waiting to hear from Denver General to see a doctor. Guess I'll have to wait another two months to even start the process. Behold the power of American exceptionalism and military might!
[grumble]
| 245 |
Alexzander Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:15:07am |
re: #243 Gus 802
89 years which is three times the 30 years I mentioned above. 30 years in which we've essentially done nothing to change our modes. Instead we'll spend trillions (in the long run) giving the oil companies tax breaks, widening highways, building bridges to nowhere, and so on. Those 89 years will go fast even though I won't be around to see it.
The entire highway infrastructure is so misguided given the relative scarcity of oil. At some point in the next 80 years our access to oil is likely going to drop dramatically, leaving our streets as empty as North Korea's, unless we come up with some very pioneering ways of 1) developing electric vehicles and 2) replacing all the components of a car that currently require oil to be produced with some other substance (the wheels, all the plastic etc etc).
| 247 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:16:28am |
re: #243 Gus 802
89 years which is three times the 30 years I mentioned above. 30 years in which we've essentially done nothing to change our modes. Instead we'll spend trillions (in the long run) giving the oil companies tax breaks, widening highways, building bridges to nowhere, and so on. Those 89 years will go fast even though I won't be around to see it.
For good or ill, the biggest change in 30 years has been the expansion of the use of smaller jets to connect more cities. LGA to Birmingham nonstop only works when you have smaller aircraft.
I'm not sure that is a good change, as it adds to congestion at the big hubs, but I have my choice of four airlines flying NYC to Burlington, VT.
| 248 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:18:00am |
re: #243 Gus 802
89 years which is three times the 30 years I mentioned above. 30 years in which we've essentially done nothing to change our modes. Instead we'll spend trillions (in the long run) giving the oil companies tax breaks, widening highways, building bridges to nowhere, and so on. Those 89 years will go fast even though I won't be around to see it.
It's all a secret plan to sequestor rebar in a concrete shell so that our descendents will have a ready source of iron/steel to recover once the Apocalypse comes. Very forward looking our government is...
//
| 249 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:18:09am |
re: #245 Alexzander
The entire highway infrastructure is so misguided given the relative scarcity of oil. At some point in the next 80 years our access to oil is likely going to drop dramatically, leaving our streets as empty as North Korea's, unless we come up with some very pioneering ways of 1) developing electric vehicles and 2) replacing all the components of a car that currently require oil to be produced with some other substance (the wheels, all the plastic etc etc).
Americans, human beings in general, don't do anything until they're in crisis mode. Even then it's not consistent. Remember when gasoline prices skyrocketed in 2008? Well, sales of massive SUVs plummeted in favor of smaller fuel efficient vehicles. The when the prices returned to "normal" those sales reversed.
| 250 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:19:23am |
re: #245 Alexzander
The entire highway infrastructure is so misguided given the relative scarcity of oil. At some point in the next 80 years our access to oil is likely going to drop dramatically, leaving our streets as empty as North Korea's, unless we come up with some very pioneering ways of 1) developing electric vehicles and 2) replacing all the components of a car that currently require oil to be produced with some other substance (the wheels, all the plastic etc etc).
We won't make it that far. Our economy will have to completely collapse, bringing famine and civil war before we actually make significant moves to get off oil.
It will never happen. The US will destroy itself first.
| 251 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:20:03am |
re: #239 garhighway
I'd love a system as comprehensive as Europe's, too but:
1> their point-to-point distances are generally shorter than ours, and
2> they generally acquired the r-o-w a while back when it was cheaper.Seattle to Minneapolis is a good example. That's 1300+ miles through the Rockies with nothing meaningful in between. (No offense to Minot, South Dakota, et al, but you know what I mean.) The European counterpart would be (roughly) Paris to Moscow, plus mountains. Would that rail line exist if there was nothing in between (and if they had a really good freeway covering that route as well)? I doubt it.
We'll never have their system. It will never make sense to build that, if cost matters at all. And it has to matter.
Not only that, those European cities also have the readily accessible metro systems and bus systems... all three of those transportation models support each other.
If I lived in Paris, and wanted to see a musical... let's say Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Starlight Express," I could get on the Paris Metro, get off at Garde d'est, take the train to Bochum Germany (bet you never heard of the town) and then take bus to the Starlighthalle (a permanent theatre built for the show), see the show and be back in Paris sometime around 2:00am in the morning, under a 24 hour day trip.
But it's those three services working in tandem that makes this possible. Here in the US, we are no where near that sort of infrastructure.
| 252 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:21:29am |
re: #244 Gus 802
Speaking of not changing my knee still hurts and feels a little worse. Maybe I'm good for making glue like a horse. Yeah, just another reminder of how we have the best healthcare in the world. I'm still waiting to hear from Denver General to see a doctor. Guess I'll have to wait another two months to even start the process. Behold the power of American exceptionalism and military might!
[grumble]
There is no Denver General anymore... possibly that has something to do with your lack of medical service.
//
| 253 |
Romantic Heretic Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:22:01am |
One thing not mentioned is that most train stations in major cities are downtown. So you often the trip by train, in Europe to my understanding, is equal in time to a plane trip as you don't have to spend an hour or so traveling after you get to the airport. My last flight a significant part of the time I spent was locally traveling to and from airports.
A train trip might also be cheaper as you won't need to rent a car or pay for taxis.
| 255 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:22:48am |
re: #250 Fozzie Bear
We won't make it that far. Our economy will have to completely collapse, bringing famine and civil war before we actually make significant moves to get off oil.
It will never happen. The US will destroy itself first.
It's odd but I think we were more open to technological changes at the turn of last century then we are today. While there was some resistance to those changes such as the steam train and the car they changed over quite readily.
| 256 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:25:22am |
re: #253 Romantic Heretic
One thing not mentioned is that most train stations in major cities are downtown. So you often the trip by train, in Europe to my understanding, is equal in time to a plane trip as you don't have to spend an hour or so traveling after you get to the airport. My last flight a significant part of the time I spent was locally traveling to and from airports.
A train trip might also be cheaper as you won't need to rent a car or pay for taxis.
Many airports in Europe are accessible by rail... either the local metro system, the suburban rail systems or even the major country rail routes. You can get from either Paris airport (Orly or CDG) by using the RER (suburban rail system) for about 9 euros. And it drops you off smack in the city, from that point anyplace in the city is accessible by the metro.
| 257 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:25:56am |
re: #254 wrenchwench
{Gus's knee}
Careful! Ouch! Doesn't really hurt to the touch but damn I have to limp now.
| 258 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:26:46am |
re: #257 Gus 802
Careful! Ouch! Doesn't really hurt to the touch but damn I have to limp now.
Try going to Denver Health and Medical.
| 259 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:27:43am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Try going to Denver Health and Medical.
OK, I'll give it another day or two. I get into 3rd world mode sometimes about these things.
| 260 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:27:50am |
re: #257 Gus 802
Careful! Ouch! Doesn't really hurt to the touch but damn I have to limp now.
Kidding aside... I didn't hear... what happened?
| 261 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:29:22am |
re: #259 Gus 802
OK, I'll give it another day or two. I get into 3rd world mode sometimes about these things.
You must have read my story about having someone drop me off at the ER entrance, sitting on the curb, moaning until someone got a wheelchair and brought me in to see a doctor. Making a public spectacle of yourself gets good results sometime.
| 262 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:29:26am |
re: #260 Walter L. Newton
Kidding aside... I didn't hear... what happened?
That's the weird part. I don't remember doing anything other then waking up on morning and finding my knee decided to give out on me while lying on my futon. Damn futons. But I didn't fall or get tackled by the Chicago defense.
| 263 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:30:02am |
re: #262 Gus 802
That's the weird part. I don't remember doing anything other then waking up on morning and finding my knee decided to give out on me while lying on my futon. Damn futons. But I didn't fall or get tackled by the Chicago defense.
Drunk sex?
| 265 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:30:38am |
re: #251 Walter L. Newton
Not only that, those European cities also have the readily accessible metro systems and bus systems... all three of those transportation models support each other.
If I lived in Paris, and wanted to see a musical... let's say Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Starlight Express," I could get on the Paris Metro, get off at Garde d'est, take the train to Bochum Germany (bet you never heard of the town) and then take bus to the Starlighthalle (a permanent theatre built for the show), see the show and be back in Paris sometime around 2:00am in the morning, under a 24 hour day trip.
But it's those three services working in tandem that makes this possible. Here in the US, we are no where near that sort of infrastructure.
That's right. Here, it is unusual to have a rail link between downtown and the airport. A few big cities have that, but most don't.
Paris is a great example: we took the RER from CDG, made one transfer, and came out of the Metro a half block from the hotel. It doesn't get much better than that.
| 266 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:31:20am |
re: #262 Gus 802
That's the weird part. I don't remember doing anything other then waking up on morning and finding my knee decided to give out on me while lying on my futon. Damn futons. But I didn't fall or get tackled by the Chicago defense.
I have a heavy duty knee brace, professional quality, all you have to do is email me (which you won't) and let me drop it off for you (which you won't) or meet me somewhere (which would be hard, since you can't walk to far).
Never mind.
| 267 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:32:49am |
re: #220 garhighway
You assume that our goal is connect every population center with every other population center. I doubt that makes financial sense, unless we decide we're doing this without regard to the price (which I believe would be a mistake).
Some of the distances involved (particularly between the West Coast and the rest of the country) make HSR impractical. If you want to go from Seattle to Minneapolis, you fly. HSR will never be a better choice than flying for those kinds of trips.
Not at all.
A railway running parallel to I-10, from Santa Monica to Miami, doesn't have to cross any mountains, and it will easily get enough passengers on each leg to be worthwhile (even if it's uncommon for people to go the whole way.) Phoenix to Austin. Houston to New Orleans. You can't think they'd be riding empty.
Routes parallel to I-40 and I-80 would have higher construction costs through the Sierras, but again... Denver to whatever's an hour or two either way... if it's really high speed, Kansas City people could make a weekend ski trip. Seattle to Minneapolis may not have tons of passengers, but I bet Detroit-Tacoma would carry plenty of freight.
| 268 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:33:36am |
re: #265 garhighway
That's right. Here, it is unusual to have a rail link between downtown and the airport. A few big cities have that, but most don't.
Paris is a great example: we took the RER from CDG, made one transfer, and came out of the Metro a half block from the hotel. It doesn't get much better than that.
Correct. This last trip a few weeks ago, we took the RoiseyBus from CDG (same price) which let's you off at the Opera (same as the RER train) and we took metro line 3 to Pere Larchaise and then one stop on the metro line 2 to Menilmontant... 1 block away from our hotel.
| 269 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:34:27am |
re: #266 Walter L. Newton
I have a heavy duty knee brace, professional quality, all you have to do is email me (which you won't) and let me drop it off for you (which you won't) or meet me somewhere (which would be hard, since you can't walk to far).
Never mind.
Now that you mention it maybe I'll pick up an Ace knee band today. I have some dough right now. Had one here but that would require a major search. And, come to think of it, knee has given me problems before which is why I had that Ace bandage.
| 270 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:35:06am |
re: #267 sagehen
In the case of Detroit to Tacoma, wouldn't a Frieght Line be better?
| 271 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:36:04am |
re: #270 ProLifeLiberal
It's the same line, just a different car attached to the engine.
| 272 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:36:15am |
re: #269 Gus 802
Now that you mention it maybe I'll pick up an Ace knee band today. I have some dough right now. Had one here but that would require a major search. And, come to think of it, knee has given me problems before which is why I had that Ace bandage.
What ever... what I have is an athletic quality brace, massive velcro straps, metal hinged, heavy canvas... you could wrap a mad pig in it and he wouldn't go anywhere.
You know where I am if you need it.
| 273 |
charlz Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:37:10am |
re: #249 Gus 802
Remember when gasoline prices skyrocketed in 2008? Well, sales of massive SUVs plummeted in favor of smaller fuel efficient vehicles. The when the prices returned to "normal" those sales reversed.
Hummer went out of business in the meantime tho! The last Hummer H3 rolled off line at Shreveport on May 24, 2010.
| 274 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:38:53am |
re: #272 Walter L. Newton
What ever... what I have is an athletic quality brace, massive velcro straps, metal hinged, heavy canvas... you could wrap a mad pig in it and he wouldn't go anywhere.
You know where I am if you need it.
OK. Thanks! Guess what? I found the "Ace" bandage already and it's already helping. Whew. It's not really an "Ace" but a "Bike". Nothing fancy.
| 275 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:39:29am |
re: #272 Walter L. Newton
Feh
you!!
You don't call,, you don't write ,, you NEVER send flowers!!!
//
| 276 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:40:22am |
re: #274 Gus 802
Rest - ice - compress - elevate (RICE) - generally works to alleviate pain. If it doesn't go away, definitely see a doc.
| 277 |
Gus Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:41:14am |
re: #276 lawhawk
Rest - ice - compress - elevate (RICE) - generally works to alleviate pain. If it doesn't go away, definitely see a doc.
Either that or take a one-way trip to the glue factory. ;)
| 278 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:42:32am |
re: #276 lawhawk
Rest - ice - compress - elevate (RICE) - generally works to alleviate pain. If it doesn't go away, definitely see a doc.
Someone comes up with a DRINK cure, they'll make millions!
| 279 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:43:25am |
And on that note,, the sandman is beating me up
Off to nap land
| 280 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:44:04am |
re: #271 sagehen
It's the same line, just a different car attached to the engine.
Not so much. The engineering standards for a standard freight line are different than for a HSR passenger line, and mixing the traffic is tricky, too.
| 281 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:44:48am |
re: #275 sattv4u2
Feh
you!!You don't call,, you don't write ,, you NEVER send flowers!!!
//
I sent you an email about 5 days ago, about you mom, it bounced back from your work address.
| 282 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:53:13am |
So, going back to an earlier topic, the general consensus of people I've spoken to this morning is that any teacher who doesn't think the Roman road system is important enough to merit a report doesn't deserve to teach the subject.
| 283 |
zora Wed, Feb 9, 2011 9:54:08am |
more crazy talk.
Beason: Dems don’t want to solve illegal immigration problem
[Link: www.cullmantimes.com...]
“Democrats do not want to solve the illegal immigration problem because they know, this is a fact, that when more illegal immigrants move into an area, when their children grow up and get the chance to vote, they vote for Democrats,” he said. “They like big government, they like programs, they’ve benefited from the day they were born because the child was born into poverty because mom and dad are poor.”
“The reality is that if you allow illegal immigration to continue in your area you will destroy yourself eventually,” said Beason. “If you don’t believe illegal immigration will destroy a community go and check out parts of Alabama around Arab and Albertville.”
Beason ended his speech by advising Republicans to “empty the clip, and do what has to be done”.
| 285 |
jaunte Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:00:47am |
re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Roman roads are a little more significant to the world than a big sports stadium.
| 286 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:01:23am |
re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, going back to an earlier topic, the general consensus of people I've spoken to this morning is that any teacher who doesn't think the Roman road system is important enough to merit a report doesn't deserve to teach the subject.
Not emphasizing the importance of the system of roads built by the Romans as a central part of any history of Rome is sort of like... well... teaching biology without teaching evolution.
| 287 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:05:17am |
re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, going back to an earlier topic, the general consensus of people I've spoken to this morning is that any teacher who doesn't think the Roman road system is important enough to merit a report doesn't deserve to teach the subject.
Horse racing tracks are decoration. A key part of a logistics system is worthy of study.
| 288 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:07:39am |
re: #283 zora
more crazy talk.
Beason: Dems don’t want to solve illegal immigration problem
[Link: www.cullmantimes.com...]
Beason is not satisfied with the 287(g) program because:
“But here’s the rest of the story, our 287(g) agreement that was entered by the Governor’s office doesn’t allow our State Troopers to go on any job site anywhere or to stop somebody anywhere and check to see if they’re legal.”
That's because the 287(g) program only applies to people who have been arrested. That's the whole point of it. He wants to make it into his own arm of the law.
Beason ended his speech by advising Republicans to “empty the clip, and do what has to be done”.
Oh, yeah. That guy.
| 289 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:14:34am |
re: #287 oaktree
Horse racing tracks are decoration. A key part of a logistics system is worthy of study.
Roman didn't win wars based on sporting events.
| 290 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 9, 2011 10:14:45am |
re: #286 Fozzie Bear
Not emphasizing the importance of the system of roads built by the Romans as a central part of any history of Rome is sort of like... well... teaching biology without teaching evolution.
Pedantic note: The road improved by the Romans, mostly. Most of the roads existed already, but they upped them from little beaten-dirt paths to incredibly-well designed highways.
This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.
Comments are closed.
Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds
- Featured PagesClick to refresh
The Cause of the Rain Here? dryad, in Greek mythology, a nymph or nature spirit who lives in trees and takes the form of a beautiful young woman. Dryads were originally the spirits of oak trees (drys: “oak”), but the name was later applied to ...
William Lewis
3 days ago
Views: 130 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Uncommon US Flags #3: Storm Warning Flags Indianola, Texas after the Civil War became the principal port for the state, due to its location on Matagorda Bay. The town steadily grew as commerce, tourism, and agriculture expanded. In 1875, a powerful Category 3 hurricane struck Indianola, ...
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷
5 days ago
Views: 211 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
A Friday at the Tail End of SpringJust out and about for a bit. First a walk downtown where the two rivers meet, then a short drive just outside of town. William Lewis
2 weeks ago
Views: 242 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
This Civil War Submarine Vanished for 136 Years [VIDEO] A Civil War submarine powered by hand cranks and lit by candlelight. What could possibly go wrong? Meet the HL Hunley. Support the production of these videos through our Patreon: patreon.com Thank you to Nick DeLong from Clemson University ...
teleskiguy
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,056 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 6
Billions in US Taxpayer Dollars Now Go to Religious Schools via Vouchers Billions in taxpayer dollars are being used to pay tuition at religious schools throughout the country, as state voucher programs expand dramatically and the line separating public education and religion fades. School vouchers can be used at almost any ...
Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 377 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Adobe Caught Selling AI Generated Images Imitating Ansel Adams’ Work Adobe scolded for selling ‘Ansel Adams-style’ images generated by AI Adobe found itself in hot water this weekend after the Ansel Adams estate publicly scolded the company for selling generative AI imitations of the late photographer’s work. On Friday, ... William Lewis
3 weeks ago
Views: 1,936 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 5
The Good Liars at The Libertarian Convention [VIDEO] The Good Liars visit the Libertarian Convention in Washington DC. They interview presidential candidates, talk to someone who thinks people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons, and Starchild. SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!NASHVILLE, TN JUNE ... teleskiguy
4 weeks ago
Views: 586 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Adam Conover - How Google RUINED the Internet [VIDEO] Google sucks now. Here's why. Get 20% off DeleteMe US consumer plans when you go to joindeleteme.com and use promo code ADAM at checkout. DeleteMe International Plans: international.joindeleteme.com You may have noticed that Google isn't what it used to ... teleskiguy
4 weeks ago
Views: 368 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
What Result Will There Be From the Trump Trial?I did my best to boil this down. What say you?
Rightwingconspirator
4 weeks ago
Views: 673 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
- Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Good Liars at Miami Trump Rally [VIDEO] Jason and Davram talk with Trump supporters about art, Mike Lindell, who is really president and more! SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!LOS ANGELES, CA squadup.com SUBSCRIBE TO OUR AUDIO PODCAST:Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.comSpotify: open.spotify.comJoin this channel to ... teleskiguy
2 weeks ago
Views: 580 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
