Paul Ryan, the Pick of Fear

Risky behavior
Politics • Views: 27,359

Ezra Klein has a good post on Mitt Romney’s Paul Ryan hail-Mary pass.

This is an admission of fear from the Romney campaign. You don’t make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals favor your candidate. You make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals don’t favor your candidate. And, right now, the numbers don’t look good for Romney: Obama leads in the Real Clear Politics average of polls by more than four percentage points — his largest lead since April.

Charles Pierce: Paul Ryan Is Not a Vice President. Paul Ryan Is a Fake.

One day, some years from now, I’m going to figure out how Paul Ryan, the zombie-eyed granny-starver from Wisconsin, managed to fool so many people for so long. He’s a garden-variety supply-side faker. His alleged economic “wonkery” consists of a B.A. in economics from Miami of Ohio — which he would not have been able to achieve without my generosity in helping him out with the Social Security survivor’s benefits that got him through high school after his father kicked. (You’re welcome, zombie-eyed granny-starver. Think nothing of it. Really.)

Also see
12 Things You Should Know About Vice Presidential Candidate Paul Ryan Meet Paul Ryan: Climate Denier, Conspiracy Theorist, Koch Acolyte

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301 comments
1 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:20:28am

- "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."

--"I always go back to... Francisco d’Anconia’s speech [in Atlas Shrugged] on money when I think about monetary policy."

--"We have to go back to Ayn Rand. Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand’s writings and works."
[Link: www.prweb.com...]

2 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:20:45am

This move demonstrates what we've all been asserting for awhile now: The parties loonies have Romney by the balls and he's never gonna be able to moderate himself. There will be no mad dash towards the center, in the vain hope of winning of indie voters, because Ryan will be there to simply yank on the leash.

3 makeitstop  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:20:59am

Obama's oppo research team have got to be rubbing their hands with glee this morning.

The myth of Ryan as a 'thoughtful conservative' will be shattered within a week. Gonna be a long summer for the GOP ticket.

4 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:21:12am

Fact-checking Paul Ryan, vice presidential candidate

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., Mitt Romney’s vice presidential pick, has been a regular on the Truth-O-Meter.

So have statements by others -- often criticism from Democrats -- about his budget plans and proposals to revamp Medicare and Social Security.

As of Aug. 11, 2012, PolitiFact and PolitiFact Wisconsin have evaluated 14 statements by Ryan, a native of Janesville. Two were rated True and two Mostly True; four were Half True and four Mostly False; none were False and two were Pants on Fire.

As one might expect, nine of the 14 Ryan statements involved the federal budget, debt, taxes or spending.

Recent attacks on his budget include a Half True claim by President Barack Obama that Ryan’s plan would cut financial aid to college students -- the claim was based on Obama’s assumptions, ignoring points in the plan itself; and Vice President Joe Biden’s False claim that Ryan’s plan eliminates Medicare in 10 years -- the plan dramatically changes Medicare, but doesn’t eliminate it.

Here’s a rundown, by rating, of the 14 Ryan statements:

5 teresa  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:21:50am

Pick of fear is right.. this is great, for Democrats everywhere. I actually can't stop smiling and giggling. I can't believe Romney's internals were that bad, but they must've been really bad to have to shore up his base by selecting Paul "the parasite" Ryan. I mean, Republicans describe those who use government services as parasites, well Paul Ryan must be one of the biggest parasites of all time, going to school on social security benefits, Pell grants, and Stafford loans like that, and then never having a job outside of government, Wow indeed!
I am loving this.

6 BongCrodny  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:22:05am

Granny-starver is an awesome nickname for Ryan.

7 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:22:17am

This likely will give Obama an edge in Florida and other retiree-heavy states.

8 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:23:04am

re: #3 makeitstop

I can heard champaign corks popping. //

9 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:23:17am

re: #1 jaunte

- "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."

--"I always go back to... Francisco d’Anconia’s speech [in Atlas Shrugged] on money when I think about monetary policy."

--"We have to go back to Ayn Rand. Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand’s writings and works."
[Link: www.prweb.com...]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves Orcs.”

-John Rogers

10 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:24:50am

So we get our social policy from the Bible and our economic policy from Ayn Rand.

We believe in personal initiative and rugged individualism, and then expect families and individuals with limited assets to be able to negotiate on equal terms with multi-billion-dollar corporations for employment, financial services and health care.

BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!!

11 God of Binders with Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:25:21am

A milquetoast, white-bread, out-of-touch weirdo picks a milquetoast, white-bread, out-of-touch weirdo to be his running mate. Seriously, you just can not make this shit up.

12 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:25:46am

re: #2 Targetpractice

This move demonstrates what we've all been asserting for awhile now: The parties loonies have Romney by the balls and he's never gonna be able to moderate himself. There will be no mad dash towards the center, in the vain hope of winning of indie voters, because Ryan will be there to simply yank on the leash.

This is what happens when an influential bloc has zero tolerance for compromise of any kind. Our way or the highway.

13 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:26:09am

re: #11 Summer Lovin' Torture Party

They are made for each other. //

14 BongCrodny  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:26:25am

re: #9 Mocking Jay

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves Orcs.”

-John Rogers

As far as I'm concerned, they both involve Orcs.

15 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:26:30am

The fact that Grover Norquist wanted the Ryan budget to become a reality should prove once and for all that this is a seriously extreme pick.

16 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:27:06am

re: #10 Expand Your Ground

So we get our social policy from the Bible and our economic policy from Ayn Rand.

We believe in personal initiative and rugged individualism, and then expect families and individuals with limited assets to be able to negotiate on equal terms with multi-billion-dollar corporations for employment, financial services and health care.

BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!!

Objectivist Jesus

17 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:27:13am

Wait. Waitwaitwait. Paul Ryan is Catholic, right?

There's no Protestant of any kind on a Republican ticket?!

This'll go well.

18 blueraven  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:27:20am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Fact-checking Paul Ryan, vice presidential candidate

So 6 of 14 statements were big lies. Not so good.

19 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:27:58am

re: #17 erik_t

Wait. Waitwaitwait. Paul Ryan is Catholic, right?

There's no Protestant of any kind on a Republican ticket?!

This'll go well.

Nope.

20 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:28:18am

re: #3 makeitstop

Obama's oppo research team have got to be rubbing their hands with glee this morning.

The myth of Ryan as a 'thoughtful conservative' will be shattered within a week. Gonna be a long summer for the GOP ticket.

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

21 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:29:14am

re: #18 blueraven

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

22 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:29:20am

re: #20 BryanS

Did you type that with both hands?

23 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:30:53am

Steve Kornacki: The smell of panic

To say this is politically risky is an understatement. The Democratic strategy to win back the House this year involves pinning the Ryan budget to every Republican candidate, and Obama has been itching to make the fall race a competition between his priorities and those of Ryan’s plan. The hope for the Romney campaign is that they’ll be able to turn the tables on their opponents by presenting the GOP ticket as a team of unusually serious and courageous policy leaders who are willing to tell hard truths about the country’s fiscal predicament.

There are endless reasons to doubt this will work. The toxicity of the Ryan budget has been tested (on a small-scale, granted) before, and the results weren’t good for the GOP. Which is why, more than anything else, this is a huge risk for Romney – a risk he wouldn’t be taking if this summer hadn’t gone so poorly for him.
[Link: www.salon.com...]

24 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:31:36am

re: #3 makeitstop

Obama's oppo research team have got to be rubbing their hands with glee this morning.

And his video team is no doubt cutting ads with Newt Gingrich calling Ryan's budget right wing social engineering.

Sure, those ads won't sway Democrats, but independents? Possibly.

25 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:31:50am

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election.

Demographics were different back then, as was the volume and quality of information available to voters.

And I can well imagine that the GOp platform, if it at all resembles some of the recent GOP state platforms, is going to be yet another albatross around Mitt's neck.

26 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:31:59am
Mitt Romney’s Paul Ryan hail-Mary pass

Is that a Catholic joke?

/

27 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:32:43am

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

What this pick does is put the Ryan Plan front and center. And considering how badly it was doing back in '10, to the point that even he stopped Ryan himself stopped talking about it in public, tells me that it's toxic to any political campaign.

28 blueraven  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:33:12am

re: #21 Daniel Ballard

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

Just commenting on KTs post. He brought it up, not me.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:33:13am

re: #21 Daniel Ballard

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

I find the fact checking sites more and more valuable these days. There's lots of BS floating around and they are just about the only way for me to keep my facts straight.

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:33:20am

re: #20 BryanS

But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues...

Right, sure it does.

31 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:33:27am

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

Yeah. You're right. This election is about whether Obama ate dog meat and whether or not a zygote is a "life"; does the Spaghetti Monster dole out "natural rights"; and if snow disproves climate change science.

32 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:33:40am

Romney picked some like himself as a running mate. Obama picked someone who was an Washington DC insider who knows how to work the system. I think the President made a better decision.

33 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:34:39am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

I find the fact checking sites more and more valuable these days. There's lots of BS floating around and they are just about the only way for me to keep my facts straight.

What do you do when the fact-checking sources leave out relevant facts, or draw completely erratic conclusions based on those facts?

Could it possibly be that the self-proclaimed fact-checking sites are just yet another part of the media, subject to the same limitations and foibles as the rest?

Shocking.

34 blueraven  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:35:33am

re: #21 Daniel Ballard

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

Anyway, it is not about bias, it is about inconsistency.

35 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:35:34am
36 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:36:41am

re: #35 Gus

The President should keep hitting those points.

37 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:36:54am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Right, sure it does.

[Embedded content]

Even Mitt Romney wouldn't sign the Personhood Pledge, although he voiced support for the idea.

38 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:37:52am

re: #28 blueraven
re: #33 Obdicut


Well if Politifact is no good, the post means little. I like Factcheck and Politfact overall. They do valuable work for the most part. Sure beats Media Matters and Move On for objectivity most of the time.

39 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:37:52am

re: #20 BryanS

But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog.

LOL keep telling yourself that.

40 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:38:07am

re: #7 SpaceJesus

Obama will be sure to point out just how Ryan's plan would have meant that the benefits they currently enjoy under SS and Medicare/Medicaid would be severely limited under the Ryan plan.

And for everyone griping about those programs, they're still quite popular overall.

41 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:38:52am

re: #40 lawhawk

Obama will be sure to point out just how Ryan's plan would have meant that the benefits they currently enjoy under SS and Medicare/Medicaid would be severely limited under the Ryan plan.

And for everyone griping about those programs, they're still quite popular overall.

Indeed. Romney just pretty much wrote off Florida in the hopes of...what? That he might put Wisconsin back in play?

42 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:39:15am

re: #25 Expand Your Ground

Demographics were different back then, as was the volume and quality of information available to voters.

And I can well imagine that the GOp platform, if it at all resembles some of the recent GOP state platforms, is going to be yet another albatross around Mitt's neck.

You mean like the state platforms that have lead to large increases in state houses and governorships? The GOP has done reasonably well at the state and local level.

I don't want to seem as though I am making comparisons to the 1980 election other than to point out one thing. Being pleased about your opponent's adherence to their platform as a sure sign that the other side is going off the cliff is a sign of potentially misplaced hubris.

Sarah Palin both excited the base and proved to be a poor candidate and idiot gaffe master. Ryan is the former, but has enough experience in leadership and on the national stage to prove he's not the latter.

43 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:39:36am

re: #39 Lidane

LOL keep telling yourself that.

Why? Of course the Republican Party is "serious." They're just dying to have Donald Trump speak at the convention. Doesn't their embrace of Donald Trump mean anything to you?!?!

//

44 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:39:53am

re: #21 Daniel Ballard

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

The answer is "read the argument on why they gave the rating."

The way they assign ratings versus the logic by which they assign them is inconsistent at best. Therefore their utility lies in taking the time to evaluate their entire argument.

45 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:40:18am

re: #20 BryanS

But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog.

Yes. Important budget and fiscal issues that Ryan has no clue about, given that his budget is a complete fucking fantasy with no attachment to reality, rife with cruelty.

46 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:40:52am

re: #42 BryanS

Sarah Palin both excited the base and proved to be a poor candidate and idiot gaffe master. Ryan is the former, but has enough experience in leadership and on the national stage to prove he's not the latter.

HA HA HA!!

47 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:41:00am

re: #14 BongCrodny

As far as I'm concerned, they both involve Orcs.

Well, Ayn Rand would have accept the Looters of her book as the equivalent to Tolkin's Orcs, since she depicts them in similar fashion.

48 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:41:43am

re: #42 BryanS

He's a climate change denier, an anti-choice extremist, a conspiracy theorist, and he's in the pocket of the Koch brothers. Yep, he's an excellent choice to represent the Republican Party.

49 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:41:44am

OT...

50 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:41:58am

re: #42 BryanS

i think ryan's political savvy and d.c. experience is outweighed by his hostility towards social security and medicare

51 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:42:18am

re: #42 BryanS

You mean like the state platforms that have lead to large increases in state houses and governorships? The GOP has done reasonably well at the state and local level.

I don't want to seem as though I am making comparisons to the 1980 election other than to point out one thing. Being pleased about your opponent's adherence to their platform as a sure sign that the other side is going off the cliff is a sign of potentially misplaced hubris.

Sarah Palin both excited the base and proved to be a poor candidate and idiot gaffe master. Ryan is the former, but has enough experience in leadership and on the national stage to prove he's not the latter.

Yes, let us hear about how Ryan spent 10 years as a House Representative, most of those with a Republican majority in power, and yet couldn't get his "Plan" taken seriously until after the Tea Party took power. Or that he supported the TARP plan, the opposition to which created that Tea Party. Or that he's supported ever single free trade bill that's come before Congress.

52 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:42:38am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

Well, Ayn Rand would have accept the Looters of her book as the equivalent to Tolkin's Orcs, since she depicts them in similar fashion.

The thing that's fucking annoying about idiots like Ryan is that even if you are going to sperg out about how awesome Ayn Rand is, at least fucking get it right. Private insurance companies would be a perfect example of 'looters', rent-seeking companies that produce nothing, take away from efficiency, and simply profit from the work that other people do.

And yet Ryan thinks private insurance is the sex.

53 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:42:39am

re: #14 BongCrodny

As far as I'm concerned, they both involve Orcs.

Some Orcs are more equal than others... ;)

54 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:42:47am

re: #42 BryanS

Palin also differed from Ryan in that she was at least a statewide elected official (albeit for one of the least populous states in the nation). Ryan has never held statewide elected office. So +1 to Palin on that.

55 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:43:05am

re: #44 The Ghost of a Flea

The answer is "read the argument on why they gave the rating."

The way they assign ratings versus the logic by which they assign them is inconsistent at best. Therefore their utility lies in taking the time to evaluate their entire argument.

Got any better sites to suggest for the job? Who is truly consistent and focused on fact checking either side? Day in day out we have to work with what is available.

56 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:43:34am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Right, sure it does.

[Embedded content]

It does...I'm not in the GOP camp on all the social issues. That will be part of the campaign as well. I vote for the Dems once in a while, but economic issues are at the forefront of my concerns this election. I wouldn't be too upset if the Dems retained the Senate, or if it goes GOP that it is a thin majority. GOP in control of both houses and the president wasn't good for our budgets either.

57 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:43:38am

re: #55 Daniel Ballard

Got any better sites to suggest for the job? Who is truly consistent and focused on fact checking either side? Day in day out we have to work with what is available.

There's never going to be one place you can go to. You have to check out the actual facts and stories yourself and make up your mind.

58 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:44:22am

re: #42 BryanS

You mean like the state platforms that have lead to large increases in state houses and governorships? The GOP has done reasonably well at the state and local level.

I don't want to seem as though I am making comparisons to the 1980 election other than to point out one thing. Being pleased about your opponent's adherence to their platform as a sure sign that the other side is going off the cliff is a sign of potentially misplaced hubris.

Sarah Palin both excited the base and proved to be a poor candidate and idiot gaffe master. Ryan is the former, but has enough experience in leadership and on the national stage to prove he's not the latter.

In Red States, yes...but I think they would be an embarassment at the national level, and will eventuall even backfire in the states.

I think the "message" that Mitt wants to get across with his VP choice is that he is prepared to be tough on balancing the budget and lowering the deficit, which is a major talking popint against Obama, even though Obama inherited most of the debt after Bush inherited a surpulus.

59 God of Binders with Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:44:44am

re: #51 Targetpractice

Or that he supported the TARP plan, the opposition to which created that Tea Party.

A black Democrat in the White House created the Tea Party.
//

60 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:45:15am

Class of '08. Shocked, I am.

61 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:45:28am

Hey what about the scientif.... HHHRGGHHH IMPORTANT ECONOMIC ISSUES

62 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:45:52am

re: #31 Gus

Yeah. You're right. This election is about whether Obama ate dog meat and whether or not a zygote is a "life"; does the Spaghetti Monster dole out "natural rights"; and if snow disproves climate change science.

It would be nice if stupid stuff on both sides were not in the forefront. It's too bad that the media's laziness and penchant for fatuous punchlines drives coverage, but that's what we have.

63 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:46:13am

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

The awesomeness of RR is much overplayed. Reagan beat Jimmy Carter with 50.5% of the vote and a healthy assist from a third party candidate names John Anderson who took 9% of the vote. The last sitting president who lost reelection without a third party candidate giving an assist to the challenger was Gerald Ford.

But you are right about a debate about policy, which is exactly what the president wants because the GOP does have a bad platform. The ads beating up on Willard were about making voters believe that he was the kind of rich prick who would really be in favor of something as awful as the Ryan budget. Focus groups conducted by Democrats didn't believe he would be. The people in the focus groups thought the Ryan plan was so terrible they couldn't believe that it was real or that a candidate for president would really support what was in it.

64 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:46:47am

re: #58 Expand Your Ground

I think the "message" that Mitt wants to get across with his VP choice is that he is prepared to be tough on balancing the budget and lowering the deficit, which is a major talking popint against Obama, even though Obama inherited most of the debt after Bush inherited a surpulus.

Ryan's budget doesn't even attempt to balance the budget for almost 30 years. It will be interesting to see how Mittens tries to say he's serious about balancing anything with that sort of economic fuckery as part of his ticket now.

65 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:46:48am

re: #57 Obdicut

There's never going to be one place you can go to. You have to check out the actual facts and stories yourself and make up your mind.

What? There's no 'truth' website? I have to work?

66 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:47:23am

re: #45 Obdicut

Yes. Important budget and fiscal issues that Ryan has no clue about, given that his budget is a complete fucking fantasy with no attachment to reality, rife with cruelty.

He's thrown compassionate conservatism to the winds; he's espousing a policy that would benefit a chosen few and everyone else would have scraps but which would otherwise undermine society as a whole.

But as an ideologue, it makes perfect sense. He's going to try and starve the federal government into a shell of its current (or even recent - think 1980s) self. And for the limited government types, this makes perfect sense, even though the consequences would be dire - bridges and infrastructure falling apart (even moreso than present), schools that can't teach basic science and math - absolutely critical to tech and defense sectors), and even a defense infrastructure that can't be sustained.

67 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #43 Gus

Why? Of course the Republican Party is "serious." They're just dying to have Donald Trump speak at the convention. Doesn't their embrace of Donald Trump mean anything to you?!?!

//

Trump is a blowhard and a media hoar. The less we hear from him, the better.

68 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:47:36am

Romney/Ryan 2012 "The Intrauterine Duo"

69 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:48:04am

re: #64 Lidane

Ryan's budget doesn't even attempt to balance the budget for almost 30 years. It will be interesting to see how Mittens tries to say he's serious about balancing anything with that sort of economic fuckery as part of his ticket now.

A "message" does not have to have anything to do with reality. Mitt just knows that a lot of Americans want to see the budget balanced and the deficit reduced.

70 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:48:14am

re: #49 Gus

OT...

[Embedded content]

Who is that American and have any possible ties to the Muslim Brotherhood been investigated?

71 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:48:58am

re: #69 Expand Your Ground

A "message" does not have to have anything to do with reality. Mitt just knows that a lot of Americans want to see the budget balanced and the deficit reduced.

A lot of Americans want to see Goldman Sachs and the rest of Wall Street arrested and jailed for the financial crisis, but that's not going to happen either.

72 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:49:12am
Over the last several months, roughly 43% of Americans report that they have never heard of Paul Ryan. In mid-July, 52% could not even make a guess as to whether Ryan was a member of the House, the Senate, was Secretary of State, or was a Governor (32% got it right). Republicans are more likely to know that Ryan was a member of the House—42% of Republicans knew this, compared to 29% of Democrats and 34% of independents.

And what do the people who know Ryan think of him? In these surveys, about 28% reported having a favorable view and 29% reported having a unfavorable view. Those who had strongly unfavorable views outnumbered those with strongly favorable views—suggesting that unfavorable opinions are more intensely held at this point in time. These ratings are affected by party, of course: on average about 54% of Republicans have a favorable impression of Ryan compared to only 10% of Democrats.

What about independents and undecided voters? Their opinions tend to be unfavorable. About 26% of independents have an unfavorable impression of Ryan, while 21% of independents have a favorable impression. A majority (52%) of independents did not have any impression of Ryan.

Among undecided voters, the same things holds: 57% had no opinion, but unfavorable opinions tended to outnumber favorable opinions (25% vs. 18%).

[Link: themonkeycage.org...]

73 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:49:19am

Ha. This talk about the Ryan budget. So the biggest appeal with Ryan is the budget. Yet already Romney is...

Mitt Romney: I'm Running With Paul Ryan, But Not On The Ryan Budget

74 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:49:21am

re: #54 lawhawk

Palin also differed from Ryan in that she was at least a statewide elected official (albeit for one of the least populous states in the nation). Ryan has never held statewide elected office. So +1 to Palin on that.

I bet you never would have imagined typing that post.

75 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:49:22am

re: #57 Obdicut

Actually there are at least two places you can go, none of which will ever substitute for our own eyes. But then we have those times when we first learn of something at one of those sites and go further to read for ourselves.

That way the two places play a valuable role in our overall education on the issues. The sheer focus makes them better than most news shows, a term BTW I wish I had used with you the other day instead of MSM.

76 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:19am

re: #56 BryanS

It does...I'm not in the GOP camp on all the social issues. That will be part of the campaign as well. I vote for the Dems once in a while, but economic issues are at the forefront of my concerns this election. I wouldn't be too upset if the Dems retained the Senate, or if it goes GOP that it is a thin majority. GOP in control of both houses and the president wasn't good for our budgets either.

Ryan's so-called "budget expertise" is as bogus as everything else about him. That pile of junk he authored was the most extreme, ridiculous "budget" ever submitted.

This pick doesn't make the GOP any more serious than they already are. It's just par for the course.

77 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:21am

re: #21 Daniel Ballard

Are we back to accepting Politifact rulings or is that still too biased?

Pants on fire rating does not mean lie according to a politifact tweet.

That's all I needed to know.

78 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:26am

re: #73 Gus

lol

79 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:39am

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

This election is about "should Medicare pay for seniors' medical needs, or should we pass out vouchers to the elderly to go buy insurance in the private market? Should Social Security keep working as is, or would you rather have compulsory stock market investing?"

When you put it this way, it's hard to see how the Right is going to pull anything even vaguely close to a majority. Even against the black guy.

80 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:41am

re: #73 Gus

Ha. This talk about the Ryan budget. So the biggest appeal with Ryan is the budget. Yet already Romney is...

Mitt Romney: I'm Running With Paul Ryan, But Not On The Ryan Budget

"I am running with Paul Ryan, but his budget is tied up on the roof."

81 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:50:52am

re: #69 Expand Your Ground

A "message" does not have to have anything to do with reality. Mitt just knows that a lot of Americans want to see the budget balanced and the deficit reduced.

A balanced budget does not pay down the debt, but it does ensure that people are either gonna see cuts to favored programs or higher taxes. And since there's no chance that Willard or Ryan will ever support higher taxes, it's time to pull out the budgetary axe. And the Ryan care showed that the axe cares not for grandma, but won't stray anywhere near the DoD.

82 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:51:16am

re: #80 wrenchwench

"I am running with Paul Ryan, but his budget is tied up on the roof."

You're reading my mind! I just had Ryan pictured on Mitt's car roof just now.

83 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:51:19am

re: #73 Gus

Ha. This talk about the Ryan budget. So the biggest appeal with Ryan is the budget. Yet already Romney is...

Mitt Romney: I'm Running With Paul Ryan, But Not On The Ryan Budget

Which, y'know, is the only reason 90% of the United States has ever heard of Paul Ryan.

See also: I was Governor, but don't ask about that.
I can create jobs based on my years and years in business, but don't ask about that.

84 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:51:28am

re: #54 lawhawk

Palin also differed from Ryan in that she was at least a statewide elected official (albeit for one of the least populous states in the nation). Ryan has never held statewide elected office. So +1 to Palin on that.

True. Who was the last person from the house successfully elevated to VP? Think the closed might have been Bush Sr, but he also served as CIA director as well, so had some other experience.

85 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:51:50am

re: #57 Obdicut

There's never going to be one place you can go to. You have to check out the actual facts and stories yourself and make up your mind.

This. "Fact checking" only exists because people are lazy and want "truf" spoon fed to them. Find a dozen different sources and read them all regularly if you want anything vaguely approaching truth. Especially don't fall for the line that partisan is bad. Having extremely partisan sources in the mix can be very helpful in weeding out the lies from the other sites.

86 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:51:55am

re: #77 Varek Raith

But you still have Factcheck if you don't like Politifact.

87 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:52:15am

re: #75 Daniel Ballard

Actually there are at least two places you can go, none of which will ever substitute for our own eyes.

I more meant that they won't substitute for your own reason and logic.

That way the two places play a valuable role in our overall education on the issues. The sheer focus makes them better than most news shows, a term BTW I wish I had used with you the other day instead of MSM.

The biggest problem with them is that, as well as laying out the facts, they try to then put a rating of true or not true on it. These ratings have been wildly inconsistent, often they're judging a person not on what was actually said but on the spirit of the statement, but other times on the actual literal truth.

If they stuck to just laying out the facts, they'd be a lot better, but they're desire to king themselves the truthtellers and slap a rating onto the stuff gets them into really ridiculous and avoidable situations-- like claiming that changing every single aspect of medicare isn't actually ending medicare.

88 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:52:27am

re: #82 Gus

You're reading my mind! I just had Ryan pictured on Mitt's car roof just now.

Funnily enough, I think the party base imagines it the other way around.

89 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:52:45am

re: #58 Expand Your Ground

In Red States, yes...but I think they would be an embarassment at the national level, and will eventuall even backfire in the states.

I think the "message" that Mitt wants to get across with his VP choice is that he is prepared to be tough on balancing the budget and lowering the deficit, which is a major talking popint against Obama, even though Obama inherited most of the debt after Bush inherited a surpulus.

Wouldn't call New Jersey or Wisconsin red states. The GOP can win when economic issues are the mainstay of their message even in left leaning states.

90 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:52:45am

re: #86 Daniel Ballard

But you still have Factcheck if you don't like Politifact.

I don't use any one source for facts.
No one should.

91 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:53:16am

Not sure if this has been posted:

Interview with a journalist who recently wrote an article about Ryan for the New Yorker:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

As the presumptive presidential nominee, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is currently the face of the Republican Party. But, as journalist Ryan Lizza suggests in his article in this week's New Yorker, the party's agenda and ideology are being driven by a very different figure: Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

92 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:53:33am

re: #20 BryanS

This Salon article seems to support your POV here

93 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:53:40am

Kevin Drum, Mar. 21, 2012
Can We Please Stop Making Excuses for Paul Ryan?

I'm so tired of Paul Ryan I could scream. Every year we get a slightly different version of the same old thing, and every year we have to waste entire man-years of analysis in order to make the same exact points about it. And the biggest point is that his budget would force enormous, swingeing cuts in virtually every domestic program, especially those for the poor. If this bothers Ryan, he's had plenty of time to revise his budget roadmap to address it.

But he hasn't. He knows perfectly well that his budget concentrates its cuts on the poorest Americans. It's been pointed out hundreds of times, after all. If he found that troublesome he'd change it. Since he hasn't, the only reasonable conclusion is that this is exactly what he intends. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

94 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:54:03am

re: #90 Varek Raith

I don't use any one source for facts.
No one should.

I prefer using Rense or Godlikeproductions for my facts.

//

95 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:54:08am

This pick shows that Romney is only leading two things: jack and shit. And Jack left town.

96 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:54:36am

re: #73 Gus

Ha. This talk about the Ryan budget. So the biggest appeal with Ryan is the budget. Yet already Romney is...

Mitt Romney: I'm Running With Paul Ryan, But Not On The Ryan Budget

That really is hilarious.

97 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:54:37am

re: #94 Gus

I prefer using Rense or Godlikeproductions for my facts.

//

TVTropes.
Can't beat that.

98 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:54:50am

re: #73 Gus

Ha. This talk about the Ryan budget. So the biggest appeal with Ryan is the budget. Yet already Romney is...

Mitt Romney: I'm Running With Paul Ryan, But Not On The Ryan Budget

That's going to be a hard message to maintain. Romney's going to have to sell his own budget if he isn't going to run on the Ryan proposals.

99 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:55:11am

Real funny that they're running away from his budget in public but it's obviously why they chose him too. I guess that's like how Romney is allowed to extoll his business record but we're not allowed to talk about it.

100 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:55:54am

re: #89 BryanS

Wouldn't call New Jersey or Wisconsin red states. The GOP can win when economic issues are the mainstay of their message even in left leaning states.

I am referring to the ones in Texas and Missouri, which read like a collection of Tea Party protestors' signs, right down to the wording and spelling ...

101 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:56:12am

re: #98 BryanS

That's going to be a hard message to maintain. Romney's going to have to sell his own budget if he isn't going to run on the Ryan proposals.

Well. There is is. Romney has already thrown the Ryan budget under the bus. It's... funny. This is typical Romney BS.

102 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:56:24am

re: #76 Charles Johnson

Ryan's so-called "budget expertise" is as bogus as everything else about him. That pile of junk he authored was the most extreme, ridiculous "budget" ever submitted.

This pick doesn't make the GOP any more serious than they already are. It's just par for the course.

Who would be the 'serious' pick if not Ryan? Anyone?

103 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:57:03am

re: #102 BryanS

Who would be the 'serious' pick if not Ryan? Anyone?

In the GOP?
...
..
.
Huntsman seemed the most sane.

104 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:57:47am

re: #42 BryanS

I don't want to seem as though I am making comparisons to the 1980 election other than to point out one thing. Being pleased about your opponent's adherence to their platform as a sure sign that the other side is going off the cliff is a sign of potentially misplaced hubris.

The 1980 election, to a large degree, was about Iran and the embassy.

If our Bin Laden raid had failed, if both helicopters crashed and Seal Team Six were POW's... then this would be a fair analogy. (but it still wouldn't mean people like the Republican economic plan, it would mean they'd vote for their Nat'l Security preference in spite of a fucked-up economic plan).

105 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:58:15am

re: #103 Varek Raith

In the GOP?
...
..
.
Huntsman seemed the most sane.

Two Mormon's on the ticket?

106 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:58:20am

re: #102 BryanS

Who would be the 'serious' pick if not Ryan? Anyone?

Let's be honest, there was no serious pick that didn't come with baggage. But picks like Portman, Pawlenty, or even McDonnell might have been enough to avoid serious controversy while still bringing experience to the ticket. As is, he's put the GOP's biggest albatross of '11 onto the ticket.

107 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:58:36am

re: #103 Varek Raith

In the GOP?
...
..
.
Huntsman seemed the most sane.

Heh there was no way Mitt was going to choose Huntsman. But of those seriously vetted, Portman would probably be decent.

108 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:58:38am

re: #105 Mocking Jay

Two Mormon's on the ticket?

Oh, right.
Forgot about that.

109 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:59:10am

re: #79 sagehen

This election is about "should Medicare pay for seniors' medical needs, or should we pass out vouchers to the elderly to go buy insurance in the private market? Should Social Security keep working as is, or would you rather have compulsory stock market investing?"

When you put it this way, it's hard to see how the Right is going to pull anything even vaguely close to a majority. Even against the black guy.

The Medicare characterization is pretty close to what they are proposing, but not the SS stuff you mention. GWB tried selling the 'option' of investing and it went nowhere--without the guarantee of income, that would change the nature of the program. Ryan and Romney have been in favor of more reasonable SS changes like increasing retirement ages over time and slowing the rate of growth of payments for higher income retirees.

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:59:14am

Ok, so I'm a little more awake.

I still don't understand.

I still think he looks like the undead.

I'm already tired of him.

I've decided to ignore the whole thing.

111 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:59:17am

re: #98 BryanS

That's going to be a hard message to maintain. Romney's going to have to sell his own budget if he isn't going to run on the Ryan proposals.

Have you paid attention to Romney's campaign at all? He can't maintain a message for shit. They've spent months running from Romneycare, which was his signature legislation in office and just the other day one of his aides talked it up positively, which caused the wingnuts to demand she be fired.

Romney HQ could give the Keystone Kops a run in the organizational chaos department.

112 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:59:40am

re: #85 William Barnett-Lewis

This. "Fact checking" only exists because people are lazy and want "truf" spoon fed to them.

Disagree there. The need for factchecking is directly proportionate to the fail factor in the news and it's two minute sound bites. Even the wire services are full of crap, as per Reuters. Partisans are the sour grapes enemies of the sites that attempt to suss out the truth of the matters along the news flow.

If partisan bleats are the way to go, by that logic the advocate sites are the path to truth. Sure, just try that with NRA and Handgun control inc. Fox and Media Matters. You will have read a lot and learned only how they argue.

113 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:00:10am

re: #109 BryanS

Ryan and Romney have been in favor of more reasonable SS changes like increasing retirement ages over time and slowing the rate of growth of payments for higher income retirees.

This is not true. Have you actually read the Ryan budget?

114 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:00:31am

re: #103 Varek Raith

In the GOP?
...
..
.
Huntsman seemed the most sane.

Except that Huntsman is too rich, too Mormon, is clearly a Commie sympathizer and Manchurian candidate because he speaks fluent Mandarin, and he has Obama cooties.

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:00:36am

re: #111 Lidane

He can't maintain a message for shit.

He doesn't think he has to. Talking to the common people means nothing to him.

116 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:00:48am

re: #101 Gus

Well. There is is. Romney has already thrown the Ryan budget under the bus. It's... funny. This is typical Romney BS.

He. Catch-22. He knows the Ryan budget is toxic, but there was no reason to pick him other than the budget.

117 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:00:53am

re: #104 sagehen

Yep. Now that Obama got Bin Laden, the GOP runs on SERIOUS ECONOMIC ISSUES.

118 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:01:12am

re: #102 BryanS

Who would be the 'serious' pick if not Ryan? Anyone?

No. The Republican Party is not a serious party. There are no possible VP picks that don't come with extremist baggage.

119 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:01:46am

Romney's speaking on CNN now in Virginia...man he looks nervous...and with good reason. He's actively participating in the end of his political career.

120 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:01:46am

re: #102 BryanS

Who would be the 'serious' pick if not Ryan? Anyone?

So nobody in the whole GOP is serious? I agree.

121 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:01:52am

re: #116 moderatelyradicalliberal

He. Catch-22. He knows the Ryan budget is toxic, but there was no reason to pick him other than the budget.

Romney: "He's the GOP's economic guru! He's got ideas to get the budget where we want it."

Voters: "What are his ideas?"

Romney: "Sorry, I'm running with Ryan, not his ideas."

122 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:02:34am

re: #1 jaunte

- "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."

--"I always go back to... Francisco d’Anconia’s speech [in Atlas Shrugged] on money when I think about monetary policy."

--"We have to go back to Ayn Rand. Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand’s writings and works."
[Link: www.prweb.com...]

Which is odd considering people like Ryan hate Marxism. Which is all that Ms. Rand's philosophy is. She just inverted it so good became evil and evil became good. She's the Marxist equivalent of a Satanist.

123 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:02:34am

One thing's for sure - this is going to hurt Romney in Florida.

124 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:02:53am

I was for the Ryan plan before I was against it.
-- Mitt Romney

125 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:02:57am
126 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:03:03am

re: #119 darthstar

Romney's speaking on CNN now in Virginia...man he looks nervous...and with good reason. He's actively participating in the end of his political career.

Like this?

Oops: Romney Introduces Ryan As ‘The Next President Of The United States’

127 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:03:20am

When do we get to "what if Romney dies or resigns" part of the Ryan discussion? It's not like we normally look to the VP pick for expected policy from the President. Only in the even of Romney s death or departure do we need worry about Ryans agenda.

Or are we assuming that Romney plans a larger than life role for his VP?

128 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:03:50am

re: #123 Charles Johnson

Obama got 45% of the vote in AZ last time, and that was McCain's home.

129 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:04:05am

re: #124 Gus

I was never for the Ryan plan, even when I was for it.
-- Mitt Romney

*ahem* That's more like it.

130 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:04:33am

re: #128 SpaceJesus

Obama got 45% of the vote in AZ last time, and that was McCain's home.

Arizona's full of retired people, too. That state is now in play.

131 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:04:39am

AZ might actually be in play, which would be hilarious

132 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:04:58am

re: #127 Daniel Ballard

When do we get to "what if Romney dies or resigns" part of the Ryan discussion? It's not like we normally look to the VP pick for expected policy from the President. Only in the even of Romney s death or departure do we need worry about Ryans agenda.

Or are we assuming that Romney plans a larger than life role for his VP?

We look at the VP pick in this case for expected policy because the President is refusing to let his policy see the light of day til after the election, having said at one point that if people knew his plans, they wouldn't vote for him. If Ryan's ideas aren't part of the reason why he was put on the ticket, then what was?

133 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:06am

re: #14 BongCrodny

As far as I'm concerned, they both involve Orcs.

Except that in Rand's world, the Orcs are the heroes. WAUGHHHHH!

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:09am

I don't remember anyone since Carter than seemed so "man is the head of the family" as Mitt. "I'm the man, I'm in charge and everything is fine, you just do what I tell you and things will continue to be just peachy"

135 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:19am

re: #55 Daniel Ballard

Got any better sites to suggest for the job? Who is truly consistent and focused on fact checking either side? Day in day out we have to work with what is available.

factcheck.org is usually pretty good; when they do make errors, it's not on the same questions as politifact.

136 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:21am

re: #119 darthstar

Romney's speaking on CNN now in Virginia...man he looks nervous...and with good reason. He's actively participating in the end of his political career.

I'm really hoping my state plays a role in that. I haven't been able to stand this guy from the minute he first ran for president.

137 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:23am

re: #100 Expand Your Ground

I am referring to the ones in Texas and Missouri, which read like a collection of Tea Party protestors' signs, right down to the spelling and working...

Those states aren't competitive for Dems. But in a state like Wisconsin, the GOP has managed to do reasonably well making fiscal issues the front and center of their campaign and policies. I'm just saying, don't underestimate this political point of view (economic conservative, moderate on social issues), especially in the midwest. The GOP will keep the social cons no matter what , but they can pick up more of the middle if social issues are in the back of the list of campaign priorities.

138 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:31am

re: #130 darthstar

Arizona's full of retired people, too. That state is now in play.

re: #131 SpaceJesus

AZ might actually be in play, which would be hilarious

This is great news for John McCain!

139 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:05:34am

MEMO

From: Mitt Romney

Subject: Press Topics

Notice. The following topics will not be addressed by our campaign when asked by the press/media:

• My record as governor of Massachusetts
• My record with Bain Capital
• My tax returns
• The Ryan Budget

Thx,

Mitt

140 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:06:16am

re: #103 Varek Raith

In the GOP?
...
..
.
Huntsman seemed the most sane.

Heh :) He's the GOP version of Joe Lieberman. Never happen.

141 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:06:52am

re: #57 Obdicut

There's never going to be one place you can go to. You have to check out the actual facts and stories yourself and make up your mind.

It's pretty hard in California to dig up an ad that runs on Wisconsin radio to catch a liar. Unless the news show of your choice happens to cover it. But the fact check sites just might. Then once you learn of the ad you can pursue it further.

142 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:06:57am

re: #130 darthstar

Arizona's full of retired people, too. That state is now in play.

Actually the people who are most important are the nearly retired people. If your are between 55-45. A Romney/Ryan win means you have to come up with a lot more for your retirement and health care in not much time. If I were the Obama folks those people would be my target.

143 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:07:11am

Okay...Mitt just attacked teachers unions. Stupid fucker.

144 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:07:29am

re: #137 BryanS

Those states aren't competitive for Dems. But in a state like Wisconsin, the GOP has managed to do reasonably well making fiscal issues the front and center of their campaign and policies. I'm just saying, don't underestimate this political point of view (economic conservative, moderate on social issues), especially in the midwest. The GOP will keep the social cons no matter what , but they can pick up more of the middle if social issues are in the back of the list of campaign priorities.

So Ryan is merely a figurehead then? Romney says his ideas are not who's being run with, Ryan is. So if Ryan's ideas are off the table, how does he help make fiscal issues front and center?

145 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:07:36am

re: #143 darthstar

Okay...Mitt just attacked teachers unions. Stupid fucker.

It's not the first time he's done that.

146 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:06am

re: #143 darthstar

Oy Vey. But I think that might get my dad to understand what kind of person Mitt is.

147 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:19am

re: #143 darthstar

Okay...Mitt just attacked teachers unions. Stupid fucker.

Of course he did.

148 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:23am

re: #132 Targetpractice

The voters he brings not his policy ideas. That's the real VP motive. At least in my lifetime, this of course is a new day. New paradigms.

149 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:27am

re: #145 Mocking Jay

It's not the first time he's done that.

Which? Attacking teachers or being a stupid fucker?

//

150 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:32am

re: #63 moderatelyradicalliberal

The last sitting president who lost reelection without a third party candidate giving an assist to the challenger was Gerald Ford.

Does it count as "losing reelection" when he was never elected in the first place?

151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:50am

re: #145 Mocking Jay

It's not the first time he's done that.

The entirety of the Public Educational System from the DOE on down is on THE LIST, right after Planned Parenthood. Because it's just another nail in Capitalism's coffin don't you know. . . .

/

152 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:08:52am

re: #143 darthstar

Okay...Mitt just attacked teachers unions. Stupid fucker.

Remember what the recall election in Wisconsin was all about...

153 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:09:44am

re: #148 Daniel Ballard

The voters he brings not his policy ideas. That's the real VP motive. At least in my lifetime, this of course is a new day. New paradigms.

And what voters does a Ryan pick bring to the Romney ticket?

154 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:09:45am

re: #111 Lidane

Have you paid attention to Romney's campaign at all? He can't maintain a message for shit. They've spent months running from Romneycare, which was his signature legislation in office and just the other day one of his aides talked it up positively, which caused the wingnuts to demand she be fired.

Romney HQ could give the Keystone Kops a run in the organizational chaos department.

Romney's starting to boil his 59 point economic plan (thousand points of light, anyone?) down to a countable 5. He's refining his message. But Romney's problem has always been the authenticity issue. I chalk a lot of that up to his running as GOP in liberal Massachusetts. That is still a weakness for him, no doubt.

155 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:09:49am

re: #137 BryanS

The GOP will keep the social cons no matter what , but they can pick up more of the middle if social issues are in the back of the list of campaign priorities.

So maybe they should stop making social issues their number one priority. The GOP's laser-like focus on destroying women's rights and gay rights is pretty darned obvious. It's a party with no real ideas - they focus instead on magical thinking that "fixing" these social issues will fix everything else.

The smarter ones know this is bullshit, of course, but they're right there helping out the true zealots, who have become a majority in the GOP.

156 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:09:55am

re: #125 Gus

39%

It's...
...beautiful

157 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:10:02am

I wonder if Romney and Ryan will start using the "Double R" Rolls Royce symbol as their campaign logo

158 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:10:05am

Twitter trending topics:

#RomneyRyan2012
Joe Biden
#BidenDebateLines
Paul Ryan
Medicare
#tcot
Yogeshwar Dutt
Ayn Rand
Elena Lashmanova
Tabriz

Check the third-last. What else could have made that happen? :)

159 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:10:14am

Investor's Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor/TIPP Poll conducted by TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence. Aug. 3-10, 2012. N=828 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.5.

Obama 46%
Romney 39%
Unsure 12%
Drunk 3%

[Link: www.pollingreport.com...]

160 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:11:12am

re: #137 BryanS

Those states aren't competitive for Dems. But in a state like Wisconsin, the GOP has managed to do reasonably well making fiscal issues the front and center of their campaign and policies. I'm just saying, don't underestimate this political point of view (economic conservative, moderate on social issues), especially in the midwest. The GOP will keep the social cons no matter what , but they can pick up more of the middle if social issues are in the back of the list of campaign priorities.

Except those people have proven that once they win, social issues are front and center. The tea party wave of 2010 has resulted in more anti-abortion legislation being passed in decades. The governor of Virginia killed his chances for being the VP pick once the vaginal ultrasound stuff got started. Yes the GOP can win in off year election when the electorate is smaller older and whiter, but once the general election rolls around word gets out about what they did after they won.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:11:12am

re: #155 Charles Johnson

So maybe they should stop making social issues their number one priority. The GOP's laser-like focus on destroying women's rights and gay rights is pretty darned obvious. It's a party with no real ideas - they focus instead on magical thinking that "fixing" these social issues will fix everything else.

The smarter ones know this is bullshit, of course, but they're right there helping out the true zealots, who have become a majority in the GOP.

They are convinced people will vote on economic issues --in favor of the conservative idea of economic issues.

162 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:11:18am

re: #157 SpaceJesus

Hopefully the Rolls Royce Motor Car group will sue them for copyright-trademark infringement.//

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:11:35am

bbl

164 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:11:58am

We hear about how the GOP is growing more socially moderate but I ain't seeing that here. This state has gone from having John Warner and Tom Davis being its most prominent Republicans to having Eric Cantor and Bob McDonnell be the most prominent ones. McDonnell, whom I must note was all ready to sign a bill that would have permitted vaginal ultrasounds on women seeking abortion. He only backed out of it when there was a large outcry about it and McDonnell is a careful politician with aspirations bigger than this state.

165 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:12:17am

re: #157 SpaceJesus

I wonder if Romney and Ryan will start using the "Double R" Rolls Royce symbol as their campaign logo

Not a good fit. Rolls Royce actually creates something technologically sound and aesthetically pleasing.

166 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:12:18am

re: #84 BryanS

True. Who was the last person from the house successfully elevated to VP? Think the closed might have been Bush Sr, but he also served as CIA director as well, so had some other experience.

Dan Quayle. And before that, Richard Nixon.

167 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:12:33am

Romney
e
l
i
g
i
o
u
s

Ryan
i
g
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t

168 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:12:51am

re: #137 BryanS

The GOP will keep the social cons no matter what , but they can pick up more of the middle if social issues are in the back of the list of campaign priorities.

You mean like they have been in the Republican-led House since 2010? Those guys who ran on "job, jobs, jobs" but have had virtually nary a single vote on anything jobs related because they've been too busy worrying about who citizens marry and women's wombs?

Seriously?

169 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:13:38am

"Jobs, jobs, joabortion."
-Maddow.

170 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:13:43am

re: #157 SpaceJesus

I wonder if Romney and Ryan will start using the "Double R" Rolls Royce symbol as their campaign logo

You mean this?

Image: 395810_10151148943195435_305704313_n.jpg

171 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:13:44am

re: #160 moderatelyradicalliberal

Except those people have proven that once they win, social issues are front and center. The tea party wave of 2010 has resulted in more anti-abortion legislation being passed in decades. The governor of Virginia killed his chances for being the VP pick once the vaginal ultrasound stuff got started. Yes the GOP can win in off year election when the electorate is smaller older and whiter, but once the general election rolls around word gets out about what they did after they won.

Exactly, it's a load of crap that the GOP is focused on economic issues. The GOP recently regained the state senate here in Virginia. So what have they done? Oh they've gone on a social issues hunt and tried rejecting an openly gay man for a judgeship. This is the modern GOP, They're not becoming socially moderate any time soon.

172 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:14:10am

re: #166 sagehen

Dan Quayle. And before that, Richard Nixon.

Nixon was in the Senate. First elected in 1950. Oops and Quayle was in the Senate too.

173 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:14:13am

LOL "economic" issues:

174 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:14:27am

This is going to be a fun convention if those poll numbers keep going down.

175 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:14:44am

RON PAUL

176 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:15:08am

re: #174 Mocking Jay

This is going to be a fun convention if those poll numbers keep going down.

The Tampa strippers will be busy as delegates opt out of watching the acceptance speech.

177 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:15:24am

re: #150 sagehen

Does it count as "losing reelection" when he was never elected in the first place?

Right he just served out the last of Nixon'x term. Either way it's hard to knock off a sitting president and the RR win over Carter is a bit overblown.

178 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:15:30am

re: #173 Interesting Times

LOL "economic" issues:

[Embedded content]

Yeah economic issues my ass. If I were a libertarian, I'd be horrified by Paul Ryan.

179 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:15:34am

re: #170 darthstar

son of a bitch, they're already on it

180 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:15:41am

re: #170 darthstar

I still prefer this use of "double R." [Link: encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...]

181 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:16:53am

re: #168 allegro

You mean like they have been in the Republican-led House since 2010? Those guys who ran on "job, jobs, jobs" but have had virtually nary a single vote on anything jobs related because they've been too busy worrying about who citizens marry and women's wombs?

Seriously?

Don't forget the super-important budgetary decision to defund NPR.

182 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:16:55am
183 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:16:55am

re: #127 Daniel Ballard

When do we get to "what if Romney dies or resigns" part of the Ryan discussion? It's not like we normally look to the VP pick for expected policy from the President. Only in the even of Romney s death or departure do we need worry about Ryans agenda.

Or are we assuming that Romney plans a larger than life role for his VP?

I'm not too excited either way about Ryan as VP. It was a bigger factor with McCain/Palin because of McCain's age and Palin's derpiness. Unlike Palin, Ryan seems capable of talking to the press, doing interviews and can be prepped for a debate. I don't think he's going to be much of a factor.

184 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:16:56am

re: #153 Targetpractice

TP voters I would guess, but I think this was a misfire anyway.

185 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:16:58am

re: #144 Targetpractice

So Ryan is merely a figurehead then? Romney says his ideas are not who's being run with, Ryan is. So if Ryan's ideas are off the table, how does he help make fiscal issues front and center?

Ryan ran in a district where he would get 2/3 of the vote while Obama would get nearly the same. Any GOP has to toe the social con line and check off the list of hot button issues. And Ryan is one of those kind of GOP social cons for sure. But those issues were not what he ran on other than to soft sell the issues by campaigning on being 'family man', the typical politician's claptrap. If you saw him campaign, you would be a lot more concerned than you are right now.

187 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:17:15am

re: #179 SpaceJesus

son of a bitch, they're already on it

The internet is fast.

188 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:17:21am
All we have to do is replace Obama. ... We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don’t need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. ... We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don’t need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate.

-Grover

189 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:17:29am

re: #178 HappyWarrior

Yeah economic issues my ass. If I were a libertarian, I'd be horrified by Paul Ryan.

But they're not because the "Ryan Plan," which is not a budget so much as a vague outline, said "FUCK THE POOR!" And that's what they want to hear, because they imagine they're not the ones who the axe is gonna come down on.

190 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:18:42am

re: #188 Mocking Jay

-Grover

That's Emperor Grover to you.

191 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:18:58am

re: #189 Targetpractice

But they're not because the "Ryan Plan," which is not a budget so much as a vague outline, said "FUCK THE POOR!" And that's what they want to hear, because they imagine they're not the ones who the axe is gonna come down on.

Youtube Video
192 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:19:13am

re: #185 BryanS

Yeah, fuck science. God, what a joke the GOP is.

193 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:19:49am

re: #185 BryanS

Ryan ran in a district where he would get 2/3 of the vote while Obama would get nearly the same. Any GOP has to toe the social con line and check off the list of hot button issues. And Ryan is one of those kind of GOP social cons for sure. But those issues were not what he ran on other than to soft sell the issues by campaigning on being 'family man', the typical politician's claptrap. If you saw him campaign, you would be a lot more concerned than you are right now.

I'd be more concerned if Ryan was virtual unknown, for whom opposition research would take time and getting the facts out there would be more difficult. But Ryan's not just known, but virtually reviled when more is revealed about him. He and Willard can run all they like away from the Ryan Plan, but it's there, people hate it, and it's gonna be the death of this campaign.

194 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:20:58am

Romney/Ryan 2012: "You call that a banking crisis? We'll show you a BANKING CRISIS!"

195 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:21:09am

I wish Romney's personal finances were as dramatically transparent as his motives.

196 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:21:28am

Romney/Ryan '12: "We have records, we're just not running on them."

197 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:21:31am

"P.S. Thanks so much for making my re-election campaign much easier than it would have been. It's like my very own Sharron Angle! xoxo, Claire"

198 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:21:46am

re: #183 Killgore Trout

He sure is not going to save the ticket. I'm not convinced Romney will still be the guy after the convention.

199 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:21:51am

re: #155 Charles Johnson

So maybe they should stop making social issues their number one priority. The GOP's laser-like focus on destroying women's rights and gay rights is pretty darned obvious. It's a party with no real ideas - they focus instead on magical thinking that "fixing" these social issues will fix everything else.

The smarter ones know this is bullshit, of course, but they're right there helping out the true zealots, who have become a majority in the GOP.

Agree that the GOP should move away from social issues, but unfortunately that is not going to happen quickly. It used to be respectable in the GOP to hold social conservative views personally, but to leave that up to individuals to run their own lives. I could live with that, but the evangelicals want to tell everyone how to live their lives and won't back down.

200 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:24:16am

re: #199 BryanS

I could live with that, but the evangelicals want to tell everyone how to live their lives and won't back down.

You enable and empower them every time you vote GOP. That's bad, and you should feel bad.

(V)(;,,;)(V)

201 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:24:25am

Today's Abbreviated Pundit Round-Up makes me giggle.
It's Morning in Comedy again.

202 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:24:42am

Seriously, I'm supposed to be afraid of Ryan because he's had success convincing the folks back home that he's a great guy, a family guy, and they love him for that? That doesn't hold the same weight as the national stage, where Ryan has become a byword for "Starve the poor." How do you claim you're running with a focus on fiscal issues and the economy, but your biggest claim to fame is off the table?

203 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:24:43am

re: #199 BryanS

I could live with that, but the evangelicals want to tell everyone how to live their lives and won't back down.

You apparently haven't noticed that they are the ones in charge of your party now. It sucks but that is the truth.

204 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:24:59am

Obscure author of 1988 text book suddenly receives many Google hits.

205 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:25:01am

re: #182 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That race is going to be interesting to watch from the outside looking in here. Bolling's been Lt Governor for the past two terms. He's as conservative as the next Virginia Republican but he's more low key and less obnoxious than Cooch so that will make the Tea Partiers think he's some kind of moderate. No idea who the Dems will nominate but I really hope it's someone good. Last thing this state needs is Governor Cuccinneli with his eye on the White House or some higher position.

206 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:25:27am
207 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:25:32am

re: #198 Daniel Ballard

He sure is not going to save the ticket. I'm not convinced Romney will still be the guy after the convention.

If the convention becomes brokered, that would be interesting. I've never seen such a thing before.

208 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:25:34am

re: #200 Interesting Times

You enable and empower them every time you vote GOP. That's bad, and you should feel bad.

(/)(;,,,;)(/)

Massive downding. Pincers are made of consummate V's, consummate!

(also, Zoidy has only four mouth tentacles -- two semicolon and two comma)

(V)(;,,;)(V)

WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP

209 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:25:49am

Interesting factoid from that interview I posted earlier:

Ryan's family made their money on building fucking interstate highways

210 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:26:23am

re: #199 BryanS

It used to be respectable in the GOP to hold social conservative views personally, but to leave that up to individuals to run their own lives. I could live with that, but the evangelicals want to tell everyone how to live their lives and won't back down.

That was before Dominionism became such a driving force in conservative ideology: we enjoy our exceptional status with God because our laws reflect (their bigoted, twisted interpretation) of Biblical Law.

As soon as we stray from God's Divine law by allowing abortions, contraception, gay marriage, progressive taxation, the personal mandate, etc., we are "shaking our fist at God" and inviting his Divine Retribution for our sinful ways.

That is why there can be no compromise on social issues for these people: our country's future hangs in the balance.

211 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:26:58am

re: #183 Killgore Trout

I'm not too excited either way about Ryan as VP. It was a bigger factor with McCain/Palin because of McCain's age and Palin's derpiness. Unlike Palin, Ryan seems capable of talking to the press, doing interviews and can be prepped for a debate. I don't think he's going to be much of a factor.

Most likely correct. Ryan won't likely make the election for Romney, and I don't think Ryan will hurt him. Ryan does bring practical governing experience in Congress as the Budget committee chair that will help Romney should he win.

212 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:27:18am

re: #185 BryanS

Ryan ran in a district where he would get 2/3 of the vote while Obama would get nearly the same. Any GOP has to toe the social con line and check off the list of hot button issues. And Ryan is one of those kind of GOP social cons for sure. But those issues were not what he ran on other than to soft sell the issues by campaigning on being 'family man', the typical politician's claptrap. If you saw him campaign, you would be a lot more concerned than you are right now.

I was told to be afraid of Sarah Palin too. This is what it looks like when Paul Ryan tries to explain his plan to people in his district.

Youtube Video

Youtube Video
213 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:27:40am

re: #209 Talking Point Detective

Interesting factoid from that interview I posted earlier:

Ryan's family made their money on building fucking interstate highways

They could've made a lot more money building toll roads...

214 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:02am

re: #211 BryanS

Most likely correct. Ryan won't likely make the election for Romney, and I don't think Ryan will hurt him. Ryan does bring practical governing experience in Congress as the Budget committee chair that will help Romney should he win.

"Practical governing experience"? Ryan's budget became so reviled, the best he could do in the end was whine to the press that "At least it got people talking."

215 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:09am

My biggest problem in the world right now: Call Me Maybe is stuck in my head. It's been there for three days.

216 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:21am

re: #211 BryanS

Most likely correct. Ryan won't likely make the election for Romney, and I don't think Ryan will hurt him. Ryan does bring practical governing experience in Congress as the Budget committee chair that will help Romney should he win.

GOP? Budget committee? Practical governing?

Did you really mean to put those words in the same sentence?

lol

217 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:38am

re: #215 Mocking Jay

My biggest problem in the world right now: Call Me Maybe is stuck in my head. It's been there for three days.

I could play The Macarena, if you want something more annoying to replace it with.

218 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:42am

Paul Ryan’s Extreme Abortion Views
by Michelle Goldberg Aug 11, 2012 1:45 PM EDT
Mitt's VP pick is a known fiscal conservative, but his social ideology is at least as radical. Michelle Goldberg on Ryan's insinuations that women who choose abortion could be jailed.

219 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:28:48am

re: #214 Targetpractice

"Practical governing experience"? Ryan's budget became so reviled, the best he could do in the end was whine to the press that "At least it got people talking."

Didn't Boehner distance himself from the budget because he knew it was a big loser?

220 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:29:08am

re: #215 Mocking Jay

My biggest problem in the world right now: Call Me Maybe is stuck in my head. It's been there for three days.

Youtube Video
221 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:31:10am

re: #217 Targetpractice

I could play The Macarena, if you want something more annoying to replace it with.

I took care of it.

222 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:31:12am
223 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:31:14am

re: #218 Gus

Paul Ryan’s Extreme Abortion Views
by Michelle Goldberg Aug 11, 2012 1:45 PM EDT
Mitt's VP pick is a known fiscal conservative, but his social ideology is at least as radical. Michelle Goldberg on Ryan's insinuations that women who choose abortion could be jailed.

Again I ask, how does this guy get the stones to tell us he's for limited government. He's not. He's with a few exceptions as socially conservative as the next and his votes and words show that. Sure, he voted for ENDA the Log Cabin Republicans will tell us but they'll ignore how he supports banning gay marriage on a federal level not just state, that he opposed repealing DADT, etc. Paul Ryan is not for small government.

224 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:32:33am

re: #222 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Reminds me, the most out of left field presidential candidate ever was probably Wendell Wilkie. Never had been a popular general or elected official. Could have been a decent president though from what I know. I think he was the most decent of FDR's opponents. I don't count Dewey in 1944 because Dewey in 1944 was still naive about foreign policy.

226 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:32:51am

re: #221 Kragar

I took care of it.

diaf

227 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:33:29am

It really is a demonstration of how shitty election prospects for the GOP are that their Pres and VP candidates can't run on their biggest accomplishments because the former's are reviled by the base and the latter's are reviled by anybody with a conscience.

228 BryanS  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:33:31am

heading out...can't spend all day debating today :)

Good day all.

229 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:34:50am

re: #226 Mocking Jay

diaf

Why would I drive in a Fiat?

230 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:34:52am

re: #217 Targetpractice

Youtube Video
231 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:37:38am
Ryan accused generals of lying about their support for Obama’s military budget. In March, Ryan couldn’t believe that Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey supports Obama’s Pentagon budget, which incorporates $487 billion in cuts over 10 years. “We don’t think the generals are giving us their true advice,” Ryan said at a policy summit hosted by the National Journal. “We don’t think the generals believe that their budget is really the right budget.”
Youtube Video
232 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:39:37am

Paul Ryan Lowered Wisconsin’s Welfare Work Requirement Threshold In 2002

Mitt Romney has spent the week characterizing President Obama’s decision to grant waivers to states seeking innovative solutions for meeting the work requirements in welfare reform as gutting the program. In reality, the administration would require participating states “to increase the number of people transitioning from welfare to work by 20 percent” and require states to “demonstrate clear progress” in the first year of the waiver.

...

Echoing language now employed by the Obama administration, Ryan argued that the provision would “give the state more flexibility in meeting the tough new federal work requirements expected to be enacted this year — including more use of education and training to help move people into better-paying jobs.”

...

233 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:39:42am

My personal theory is that Ryan was picked because he looks like he could be the 6th Romney son.

234 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:39:45am

re: #231 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Oh yeah, great way to win over the military vote.

///

235 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:40:09am

re: #231 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I think this was what showed me that he cares only about cutting social spending above everything else. That Paul Ryan would attack the chairman of the joint chiefs for supporting Obama's budget and accuse them of what he did showed that the guy's a partisan hack more so than a deficit hawk. Just read an article on MSNBC about how Reagan's own budget director derided the Ryan Plan. Of course, that will be ignored as the right wingers in the media attempt to make Ryan and his budget out to be akin to Reagan.

236 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:40:30am

re: #231 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I had forgotten it was Ryan who said that.

237 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:40:38am

re: #223 HappyWarrior

Again I ask, how does this guy get the stones to tell us he's for limited government. He's not. He's with a few exceptions as socially conservative as the next and his votes and words show that. Sure, he voted for ENDA the Log Cabin Republicans will tell us but they'll ignore how he supports banning gay marriage on a federal level not just state, that he opposed repealing DADT, etc. Paul Ryan is not for small government.

He's also the kind of small government guy that signs on for giant corporate bailouts and bloated military expenditure. I wonder what his record is like on subsidies and tax breaks, aka corporate welfare...

238 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:40:58am

re: #215 Mocking Jay

My biggest problem in the world right now: Call Me Maybe is stuck in my head. It's been there for three days.

Because it's got so many awesome lip-sync YouTubes... (my favorite right now is the Olympic swim team, but the one with the president is pretty good too)

239 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:41:10am

Right wing tweeters cranky over Candy Crowley's "ticket death wish" comment: [Link: twitter.com...]

240 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:42:07am

re: #238 sagehen

Because it's got so many awesome lip-sync YouTubes... (my favorite right now is the Olympic swim team, but the one with the president is pretty good too)

The Cookie Monster cover wins.

241 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:42:16am

re: #237 The Ghost of a Flea

He's also the kind of small government guy that signs on for giant corporate bailouts and bloated military expenditure. I wonder what his record is like on subsidies and tax breaks, aka corporate welfare...

Probably typical. The best phrase for people like Ryan is born again small government supporter. Ryan voted for all the Bush items that many feel contributed to the debt. He claims now he did so with reluctance and that it made him sick but that's awfully convenient isn't it?

242 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:42:31am

re: #217 Targetpractice

I could play The Macarena, if you want something more annoying to replace it with.

oh, I can beat that....

Youtube Video
243 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:42:32am

re: #231 jaunte

Ryan said at a policy summit hosted by the National Journal. “We don’t think the generals believe that their budget is really the right budget.”

Exactly. That's why they support the cuts.

244 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:42:50am

re: #239 jaunte

Right wing tweeters cranky over Candy Crowley's "ticket death wish" comment: [Link: twitter.com...]

Dey tuk er jobs!

245 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:44:01am

Romney just put Ryan's entire 10 years in Congress into play. And already, the nougatty cluster of fuck that has been his career is offering up some good signs of just how much of a joke Ryan is as a VP pick. Arguing that it's not a concern because Ryan isn't gonna be Prez ignores that he's the guy Romney will rely upon to help direct Congressional policy.

246 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:44:09am

re: #242 sagehen

oh, I can beat that....

[Embedded content]

As can I...

Youtube Video
247 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:45:32am

re: #174 Mocking Jay

This is going to be a fun convention if those poll numbers keep going down.

This is excellent news for John McCain!

248 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:45:52am

I bet someone out there is going to say Ryan's 10 years in the House means he has more legislative experience than Obama.

249 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:46:27am

"...naturally Crowley’s “ticket death wish” is trending on right wing blogs, where they are calling Candy Crowley “pig” and worse. They also think this means that the “left is terrified.”

On NewsBusters, conservatives are blaming the “Obama-loving media” for the negative reaction to Paul Ryan. This is the natural result of the conservative epistemic closure bubble that causes conservatives to refuse to believe national polls that show Paul Ryan’s budget to be a real stinker. "
[Link: www.politicususa.com...]

250 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:46:55am

re: #241 HappyWarrior

He claims now he did so with reluctance and that it made him sick

Sounds like what I heard from people who voted for W twice, for McCain, who will vote for Romney, who will vote for Christie in four years...

251 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:47:57am

re: #248 Fred Galt

I bet someone out there is going to say Ryan's 10 years in the House means he has more legislative experience than Obama.

Which is itself a joke, because Obama actually held a state-level legislative position before going to the Senate. Ryan's entire career boils to 10 years in the lower of Congress' two houses, with no state-level elected position before that.

252 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:48:07am

re: #248 Fred Galt

I bet someone out there is going to say Ryan's 10 years in the House means he has more legislative experience than Obama.

Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina tried claiming Sarah Palin's then year and half governing Alaska meant she had more experience than Biden. Joe Biden who was first elected to the Senate when Sarah Palin was still in grade school. So, yeah someone's going to claim that. I do wish someone would ask Romney though about the hypothetical amendment he brought up about not allowing someone who hasn't had private sector experience to be able to run for president. Ryan's a government lifer. Much more than Obama was actually.

253 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:48:46am

The Ryan VP pick; completely summed up in 16 seconds.

Youtube Video
254 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:49:56am

re: #252 HappyWarrior

Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina tried claiming Sarah Palin's then year and half governing Alaska meant she had more experience than Biden.

When that particular line of bullshit started, I laughed. Biden has a personal Rolodex filled with world leaders that most other pols would kill for, just given his long tenure in the Senate.

255 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:51:11am
256 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:51:38am

Paul Ryan: A Good Choice, but Please, Not a 'Serious' One

One request: I hope that when reporters are writing or talking about Paul Ryan's budget plans and his overall approach, they will rig up some electro-shock device to zap themselves each time they say that Ryan and his thoughts are unusually "serious" or "brave." Clear-edged they are, and useful in defining the issues in the campaign. But they have no edge in "seriousness" over, say, proposals from Ryan's VP counterpart Joe Biden.

Last year, as the new GOP majority was preparing to accept Ryan's plan as the official House version of the budget, "brave" and "serious" surrounded press mention of Ryan's name so often that these became de facto parts of his identification. "Well, George, some people may not like this plan, but Paul Ryan is making a brave and serious attempt to deal with America's budget problems." As Jonathan Chait argued in a long and very-much-worth-reading New York magazine article this spring, the "brave and serious" cliche largely reflected a successful positioning campaign, which many people who view themselves as "serious" swallowed credulously.

257 Sionainn  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:53:03am

re: #41 Targetpractice

Indeed. Romney just pretty much wrote off Florida in the hopes of...what? That he might put Wisconsin back in play?

Might have just written off Nevada as well.

258 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:53:05am

re: #254 Lidane

When that particular line of bullshit started, I laughed. Biden has a personal Rolodex filled with world leaders that most other pols would kill for, just given his long tenure in the Senate.

My joke was at the time: Joe Biden got elected in the first national election my Dad could vote in while Sarah Palin got elected in the first one I could vote in. I mean Joe Biden was in the Senate while Nixon was president and served with quite few guys who were in office during FDR's presidency. Really, I hope when Biden retires, he writes a memoir because he's probably got some amazing stories and has met some remarkable people in his career and you know Biden he's got a sense of humor too so he's probably got some funny ones too. I would read that book, so if you're reading, Mr. Vice President start writing.

259 makeitstop  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:53:36am

Okay, I've got a bedroom to paint. I'm sure when I check back in in a few hours, the Rmoney campaign will be exponentially more fucked than they are at this moment and the RWNJs will be bursting into rage-induced flames, and that makes me very happy.

Have a good afternoon, all. Catch you later.

260 JeffM70  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:53:38am

I can only imagine how moderates and undecideds are going to react to the GOP convention speeches.

261 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:53:56am

re: #257 Sionainn

Might have just written off Nevada as well.

Arizona's now in play too. A lot of retirees out there.

262 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:54:10am

re: #260 JeffM70

I can only imagine how moderates and undecideds are going to react to the GOP convention speeches.

Especially if they let David Barton speak in prime time. That will be a hoot.

263 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:55:27am

re: #260 JeffM70

I can only imagine how moderates and undecideds are going to react to the GOP convention speeches.

"Vote for us you, godless unrepentant sinners!" does have a certain ring to it.

264 Sionainn  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:56:05am

re: #62 BryanS

It would be nice if stupid stuff on both sides were not in the forefront. It's too bad that the media's laziness and penchant for fatuous punchlines drives coverage, but that's what we have.

Women's rights to make choices regarding their own bodies isn't "stupid stuff."

265 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:56:18am

This is probably the most radical top/down GOP ticket in quite a while. At least the Bushes and NIxon were theoretically "moderates" when they were elected.

266 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:56:22am

re: #262 Lidane

Especially if they let David Barton speak in prime time. That will be a hoot.

I don't think we could get that lucky.

267 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:57:20am

re: #266 Kragar

I don't think we could get that lucky.

Hard to say, they're letting Son of Paul up there. And they just gave us Ryan as VP. Perhaps the stars will align just right for a third miracle.

268 Sionainn  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:57:23am

re: #62 BryanS

It would be nice if stupid stuff on both sides were not in the forefront. It's too bad that the media's laziness and penchant for fatuous punchlines drives coverage, but that's what we have.

Equal rights for ALL citizens regardless of sexual orientation is not "stupid stuff."

269 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:58:49am

Okay, not to double up on Fallows, but his original observations about the Ryan Plan are worth revisiting, as Ryan-as-VP is about to deploy the mythopoetic idyll of his competence:

The Brave and Serious Mr. Ryan

1) A plan to deal with budget problems that says virtually nothing about military spending is neither brave nor serious. That would be enough to disqualify it from the "serious" bracket, but there's more.

2) A plan that proposes to eliminate tax loopholes and deductions, but doesn't say what any of those are, is neither brave nor serious. It is, instead canny -- or cynical, take your pick. The reality is that many of these deductions, notably for home-mortgage interest payments, are popular and therefore risky to talk about eliminating.

3) A plan that exempts from future Medicare cuts anyone born before 1957 -- about a quarter of the population, which includes me -- is neither brave nor serious. See "canny or cynical: take your pick" above.

4) A plan to reconcile revenue and spending, which rules out axiomatically any conceivable increase in tax rates, is neither brave nor serious. Rather, it is exactly as brave and serious as some opposite-extreme proposal that ruled out axiomatically any conceivable cut in entitlement spending or discretionary accounts.

5) A plan to reduce the federal deficit by granting big tax reductions to the highest-income Americans, at a time when their tax rates are very low by historic standards and and their share of the national income is extremely high, and when middle-class job creation is our main economic challenge, is neither brave nor serious. See "cynical," above.

6) A plan that identifies rising health-care costs as the main problem in public spending, but avoids altogether the question of how to contain those costs, is neither brave nor serious. This is a longer and more complicated discussion (see below*); but I submit that the more closely anyone looks at the Ryan plan, the less "serious" it will seem on this extremely important front.

7) A plan that reduces, among other things, research on future energy sources and technologies by about 85% may be "brave," but it's also crazy and short-sighted.

---

I could go on, but I'll just say that Ryan's plan utterly avoids the challenge of "bending the curve" of medical costs, which "serious" people have struggled with for years. Instead it relies on two nostrums: (a) The myth that letting people comparison shop for health-insurance policies will hold costs down, despite exactly zero evidence from the real world that this has worked; and (b) The idea that decreeing lower spending for older people will hold down overall cost growth, rather than just apportioning it on economic grounds and denying it, "death panel" style, to people who run out of money.

270 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:59:55am

re: #269 The Ghost of a Flea

Okay, not to double up on Fallows, but his original observations about the Ryan Plan are worth revisiting, as Ryan-as-VP is about to deploy the mythopoetic idyll of his competence:

The Brave and Serious Mr. Ryan

---

271 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:59:57am

You know, I got thinking about states like Nevada, Arizona, Florida, etc, all ones that have a large Latino population. I know Romney wasn't going to do well with Hispanics even if he chose Rubio but there was some question of turnout. Perhaps Ryan's views on the economy will drive them out in large numbers. Hispanic voters are known to be among the most economically liberal of the population.

272 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:03:36pm

I've been trying to figure out who Paul plays to, and the only thing I can come up with is "suburban wingnuts".

You know, the kind who like to call themselves "independents".

273 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:05:07pm

re: #272 Fred Galt

I've been trying to figure out who Paul plays to, and the only thing I can come up with is "suburban wingnuts".

You know, the kind who like to call themselves "independents".

or "libertarians" even whilst they support and or vote for people things like personhood amendments, bans on gay marriage, don't believe in the separation of church and state.

274 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:05:15pm

re: #265 Fred Galt

This is probably the most radical top/down GOP ticket in quite a while. At least the Bushes and NIxon were theoretically "moderates" when they were elected.

Nixon was legislatively a moderate throughout his presidency, even a liberal by today's standards. Being a crook doesn't diminish the awesomeness of EPA, OSHA, Title IX, Title X, affirmative action...

275 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:05:24pm

re: #272 Fred Galt

I've been trying to figure out who Paul plays to, and the only thing I can come up with is "suburban wingnuts".

You know, the kind who like to call themselves "independents".

Most of the Paulians I've met are those who have absolutely no clue what the effects of Paul's ideas would be on their world, but are convinced that it's "better" than what the "duopoly" is doing instead. The kinda empty-headed nitwits who buy the media telling them that there's no real difference between the parties.

276 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:06:11pm
277 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:07:08pm

A friend on another board just put it perfectly:

Romney's still trying to win the nomination while Obama's busy winning the presidency.

278 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:07:17pm

re: #276 Gus

[Embedded content]

More than anything, I think empathy is what this ticket lacks.

279 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:07:33pm

[Link: store.mittromney.com...]

Buy your official Ryan-Romney merchandise NOW! Supplies are...

$30 for a T SHIRT?!!

280 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:08:58pm

re: #274 sagehen

Nixon was legislatively a moderate throughout his presidency, even a liberal by today's standards. Being a crook doesn't diminish the awesomeness of EPA, OSHA, Title IX, Title X, affirmative action...

I wrote a whole paper on Nixon's domestic policies. People think he was a lot more conservative than he was because he made his name as a red baiter which still stuck even though he was the one who opened up relations with the PRC and established detente. Nixon's a fascinating guy. The reason why you don't hear Republicans champion isn't because of him being a crook, it's because his record is embarrassing to the drown the government in the bathtub crowd. Honestly, contrary to belief, I believe Nixon had more of a heart than his critics gave him credit for. He was sympathetic to health care reform in large part because of losing two brothers at a young age to TB. He also very nearly nominated the first woman to the USSC and I think the only reason she wasn't chosen was because the ABA found her unqualified.

281 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:09:27pm

re: #269 The Ghost of a Flea

A plan that reduces, among other things, research on future energy sources and technologies by about 85% may be "brave," but it's also crazy and short-sighted.

Moronic, anti-science, and predictable.

282 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:09:31pm

re: #279 Fred Galt

[Link: store.mittromney.com...]

Buy your official Ryan-Romney merchandise NOW! Supplies are...

$30 for a T SHIRT?!!

Not to be a graphics snoot, but that thing is a design trainwreck.

283 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:09:45pm

re: #279 Fred Galt

[Link: store.mittromney.com...]

Buy your official Ryan-Romney merchandise NOW! Supplies are...

$30 for a T SHIRT?!!

That's obscene. Plus shipping and tax. I've seen better prices at a rock concert.

284 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:10:13pm

re: #275 Targetpractice

Most of the Paulians I've met are those who have absolutely no clue what the effects of Paul's ideas would be on their world, but are convinced that it's "better" than what the "duopoly" is doing instead. The kinda empty-headed nitwits who buy the media telling them that there's no real difference between the parties.

Every third party attempt depends on that fiction of no difference between the Democrats and Republicans. There used to be a shred of truth to it. The Republicans have incinerated that shred.

285 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:10:26pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

That's obscene. Plus shipping and tax. I've seen better prices at a rock concert.

Now, that is a seriously damning comparison.

286 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:11:15pm

re: #279 Fred Galt

[Link: store.mittromney.com...]

Buy your official Ryan-Romney merchandise NOW! Supplies are...

$30 for a T SHIRT?!!

Grifters gonna grift.

287 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:11:57pm

BUSTED: Watch TARP Republican Paul Ryan Begging Congress To Vote For The Bailout
We finally found the footage of Paul Ryan (R-WI) begging his colleagues to vote for TARP. When you watch, you'll see exactly why this video isn't highlighted on his Youtube page.

288 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:13:21pm

re: #287 Gus

BUSTED: Watch TARP Republican Paul Ryan Begging Congress To Vote For The Bailout
We finally found the footage of Paul Ryan (R-WI) begging his colleagues to vote for TARP. When you watch, you'll see exactly why this video isn't highlighted on his Youtube page.

I knew he was full of shit. He acts like he did all these things regretfully but here he is begging them to vote for TARP. You know, the thing that's made out to be an excess of Obama and liberalism.

289 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:14:39pm

re: #285 Shiplord Kirel

Now, that is a seriously damning comparison.

Isn't it? Anyhow, for means of comparison, I looked at Obama's store. Prices aren't much better but still.

290 Archangelus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:20:24pm

So the Romney campaign strategy is to give Florida and Nevada to the Democrats on a silver platter for... what exactly??

291 Sionainn  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:20:33pm

re: #282 erik_t

Not to be a graphics snoot, but that thing is a design trainwreck.

It's just as boring as the candidates.

292 JeffM70  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:25:05pm

For fun, here's a conversation going on with three far right-wingers on Facebook about the Ryan pick. I went to high school with them. The irony is sad.

1: CNN Crowley: Ryan Pick 'Looks a Little Bit Like Some Sort of Ticket Death Wish'... [Link: newsbusters.org...] They will do anything to convince ignorant voters and set the tone to help Osama...I mean Obama.

2: They commie libs are asking that because they will attack the hell out of his wife and kids.

3: you can vote Obama for President never having a job butyou shoud worry about a young vp if hes qualified or not. Come on wtf How can so many people be so ignorant. Yes John they are the first to cry if its done to them they real idiots in both parties they are control freaks. Remember a few of then in high school lol love em all!

4: Look what the libs did/said about Palins family. Anyone who calls themselves a Democrat is ignorant.

5: "Sad thing is that there are so many un informed people out there who will make their choice on total lies never even tryin to find true facts. Lazy Americans."

From guys who get their facts from Rush, Beck and Fox News.

293 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:28:12pm

re: #292 JeffM70

For fun, here's a conversation going on with three far right-wingers on Facebook about the Ryan pick. I went to high school with them. The irony is sad.

1: CNN Crowley: Ryan Pick 'Looks a Little Bit Like Some Sort of Ticket Death Wish'... [Link: newsbusters.org...] They will do anything to convince ignorant voters and set the tone to help Osama...I mean Obama.

2: They commie libs are asking that because they will attack the hell out of his wife and kids.

3: you can vote Obama for President never having a job butyou shoud worry about a young vp if hes qualified or not. Come on wtf How can so many people be so ignorant. Yes John they are the first to cry if its done to them they real idiots in both parties they are control freaks. Remember a few of then in high school lol love em all!

4: Look what the libs did/said about Palins family. Anyone who calls themselves a Democrat is ignorant.

5: "Sad thing is that there are so many un informed people out there who will make their choice on total lies never even tryin to find true facts. Lazy Americans."

From guys who get their facts from Rush, Beck and Fox News.

Irony really is big there considering the repeated attacks we see on Obama's family including his dead mother.

294 JeffM70  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:29:53pm

re: #293 HappyWarrior

I almost pointed that out, but I didn't want to get into it with them. The insanity bubble is too thick for anyone to penetrate.

295 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:33:32pm

re: #294 JeffM70

I almost pointed that out, but I didn't want to get into it with them. The insanity bubble is too thick for anyone to penetrate.

I don't blame you. I have friends who whine about everything Obama does on facebook. I keep my facebook page as politics free as possible which is funny given that I was the political geek in high school.

296 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:40:49pm

re: #20 BryanS

I'm sure you're right that Dems are happy about the selection. Democrats were also very pleased when Reagan was the nominee for the 1980 election. But this selection makes the election about important budget and fiscal issues rather than whether Romney killed some lady with cancer, spends too much on his horse, or mistreats his dog. If the GOP has such a bad platform, then you should be happy that Romney is going to actually run on it. Whoever wins, so be it. That's what elections are for.

by this time in the 1980 election, reagan was already permanently ahead in the polls

and, yes, we a re very pleased that mitt has decided to shift the focus off of the economy and on to ryan's plan to gut social security and medicare

thank you

297 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:44:13pm

re: #295 HappyWarrior

I don't blame you. I have friends who whine about everything Obama does on facebook. I keep my facebook page as politics free as possible which is funny given that I was the political geek in high school.

I keep mine relatively politics free, except when the SOPA/PIPA debates were going on or if someone does something incredibly stupid, like when Geraldo blamed Trayvon Martin for his own death because he wore a hoodie.

A good number of my friends and relatives are either conservative/Republican or they've deluded themselves into thinking that Luap Nor cares about freedom or they don't give a shit about politics. A few are on my side and others are further to the left. For the most part, though, I avoid politics on FB. The same relatives bitching about Obamacare are going to vote for the guy who created it first, and they don't see the conflict at all.

298 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:17:55pm

re: #54 lawhawk

Palin also differed from Ryan in that she was at least a statewide elected official (albeit for one of the least populous states in the nation). Ryan has never held statewide elected office. So +1 to Palin on that.

Palin served for only two-and-a-half years as governor of Alaska; before that, she served a term as chairperson of the AK Oil & Gas Conservation Commission and two terms as mayor of Wasilla.

I'm sorry, but that experience isn't much for a national-level office, IMO; as much as it pains me to say it, Ryan has more national-level experience in office than Palin ever did.

That's why Ryan is much more concerning as a VP candidate than Caribou Barbie was.

299 JeffM70  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:55:46pm

re: #295 HappyWarrior

I don't mind talking politics, but it has to be based in reality.

300 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:55:19pm

re: #298 TedStriker

Palin served for only two-and-a-half years as governor of Alaska; before that, she served a term as chairperson of the AK Oil & Gas Conservation Commission and two terms as mayor of Wasilla.

I'm sorry, but that experience isn't much for a national-level office, IMO; as much as it pains me to say it, Ryan has more national-level experience in office than Palin ever did.

That's why Ryan is much more concerning as a VP candidate than Caribou Barbie was.

The President of my co-op board has more constituents, a more complicated budget, and signs a larger payroll than does the mayor of Wasilla. He also balances the budget every year.

301 Tigger2005  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:40:24pm

re: #49 Gus

OT...

[Embedded content]

If it was Iraq, Saddam would have had his head...


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