Scientists Overcome by Hopenchange

Science • Views: 3,543

What does it take to get a science geek misty-eyed?

Staff members throughout the government’s scientific agencies held inaugural parties on Tuesday, and many reported being teary-eyed with�joy.

“If you look at the science world, you see a lot of happy faces,” said Frank Press, a former president of the National Academy of Sciences and former science adviser to President Jimmy Carter. “It’s not just getting money. It’s his recognition of what science can do to bring this country back in an innovative�way.”

Michael Lubell, a senior official of the American Physical Society, the world’s largest group of physicists, strongly�agreed.

“I think there’s now a consensus between the White House and the Congress that the future of the country relies on science,” Lubell said. “The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the�mess.”

On issues like stem cells, climate change, sex education and contraceptives, the Bush administration sought to tame and, in some cases, suppress the findings of many of the government’s scientific agencies. Besides discouraging scientific pronouncements that contradicted administration policies, officials insisted on tight control over even routine functions of key�agencies.

In early 2004, more than 60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, issued a statement claiming that the Bush administration had systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear�weaponry.

Jump to bottom

851 comments
1 Dustyvet  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:04:36pm

I lost my test tube...:(

2 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:04:43pm
3 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:05:18pm

Will the OBama love fest ever end?

4 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:05:32pm

I'll admit it: I have a case of hopenchange over this too.

5 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:05:42pm
What does it take to get a science geek misty-eyed?

Grant money!

6 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:05:44pm

Luckily, we know libs would never misrepresent scientific fact to influence policy or to suit their own agendas.

///

7 vxbush  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:05:54pm

Oy. I think I'm going to barf. What happened to science being impartial? I thought it was more important there than in the media.

8 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:06:31pm
9 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:06:43pm

re: #7 vxbush

Oy. I think I'm going to barf. What happened to science being impartial? I thought it was more important there than in the media.

Not with government grant money and bailouts afoot.

10 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:07:01pm

If Al Gore becomes his climate czar, I'll vomit. There isn't a scientific bone in that man's body, only an agenda to line his pockets.

11 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:07:27pm

So, basically, they're thrilled because they think their bread is going to be buttered, big time.

As a scientist myself, I'm ashamed.

12 vxbush  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:07:52pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Two words: grant money.

Ah, yes, for which any scientist will swerve and bend and twist to make his project fit into the required qualifications to get that almighty dollar.

Forgive me, but this bothers me:

“The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”

Right, so science will create a pill that creates responsibility in people?

13 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:08:02pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Yeah, that seems to be the common right-wing view.

14 kansas  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:08:40pm

What does it take to get a science geek misty-eyed?

Uhhhh...........government grant?

15 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:08:51pm

They quote my favorite line from the inaugural speech:

We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories

I want to see the harnessed soil.

16 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:08:56pm
“It’s not just getting money. It’s his recognition of what science can do to bring this country back in an innovative way.”

After a moment's reflection, Frank Press coninued, "OK, maybe it is just the money."

17 Noah's Arrrgh  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:04pm

Alternative headline: Obama encourages politicized pseudo-science and federal funding thereof, in opposition to the Bush approach.

18 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:20pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

They quote my favorite line from the inaugural speech:


I want to see the harnessed soil.

I thought that was coal.

19 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:22pm
“I think there’s now a consensus between the White House and the Congress that the future of the country relies on science,”

That would be LEGITIMATE science, Mr. Lubell. Not the touchy-feely junk science being pushed by some in the "academic" community.

20 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:29pm

Will stem cell research keep al qaeda from destroying my country?

21 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:30pm
On issues like stem cells, climate change, sex education and contraceptives, the Bush administration sought to tame and, in some cases, suppress the findings of many of the government’s scientific agencies. Besides discouraging scientific pronouncements that contradicted administration policies, officials insisted on tight control over even routine functions of key agencies.

As opposed to the Clinton Administration which never funded stem cell research? The critics of Bush's stem cell policies complain because he didn't go far enough in a new area of research (embryonic stem cell research), and to date one that hasn't been nearly as successful as other stem cell research lines (adult, cord blood, etc.)

This is about chasing research money, which universities need to sustain themselves (despite the fact that some of the biggest universities in the nation have huge endowments that could go to lowering tuition but don't).

22 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:49pm

Pigs queuing up to the government grant slops trough about to be filled.

23 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:09:51pm

How much money does it take to make them misty eyed? Bailout money or real dollars?

24 jemima  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:14pm

I would have hoped this group would be a little more reality based.

25 A.W.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:17pm

Of course if policy was to be driven by science, then we would stop seeing any discussion of global warming because the science just isn't as clear as the politicians are pretending it is.

It is often said it is important to separate church and state as much to protect the church from the corruption of state involvement as anything else.

Maybe we need to take the same attitude about science.

26 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:27pm
27 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #23 WriterMom

How much money does it take to make them misty eyed? Bailout money or real dollars?

If they run out, they'll just print more.

28 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #12 vxbush

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey


Right, so science will create a pill that creates responsibility in people?

I'm visualizing an old hag handing me a lifesaver.

29 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:10:43pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought that was coal.

Reeducation camp for you!

30 VioletTiger  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:11:03pm

I hope some sane scientist invents a vaccine against Hopenchange. There doesn't seem to be a cure right now, but things may change.

31 itellu3times  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:11:40pm

The left has built itself this fantasy that Bush hated and ignored science, based on the fact they did not fund a useless and ethically difficult subset of stem-cell research, and did not believe in global Algore.

Left-wing (pseudo-)scientists worldwide are getting all warm and teary about their upcoming unicorn grants.

32 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:11:40pm

Science only matters to these people if your talking about global warming or stem cell research. If it is for star wars or defense it is all "unproven" technology?

33 kcladderman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:11:46pm

In early 2004, more than 60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, issued a statement claiming that the Bush administration had systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry

How many influential scientists and Nobel laureates didn't issue a statement claiming the Bush administration had systematically distorted scientific fact?

34 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:11:57pm

re: #12 vxbush

“The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”


I think that quote refers to the fact that UK, Europe, India, Israel have all been pouring huge amounts of money and effort into biotech research over the past 10 years. India's effort is like the Apollo program. In America this research is much harder to do because laws regarding cloning, chimeras, etc. and limited funding to biotech research. I'm happy to see that coming to an end.

35 Pullus Iulius  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:12pm

“The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”
My freedom can beat up their science.

36 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:15pm

“I think there’s now a consensus between the White House and the Congress that the future of the country relies on science,” Lubell said. “The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”

Well I think it will primarily take better morality & respect for each other, and science is overstating its case here.

Sigh.

37 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:31pm

Gee the State Department seems to be enamored by Obama. I think that says it all.

38 martinsmithy  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:50pm

I agree with the 2004 statement that the Bush Administration "systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals." In some areas of science, I welcome the change.

But I have no doubt that the Obama Administration will also "systematically distort scientific fact in the service of policy goals" when it suits its purposes. I fully expect dissenting or even questioning views on global warming to be suppressed under the Obama Administration.

Political interference in science comes from both the right AND the left.

39 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:54pm

So why can't we use high tech SCIENCE to help extract energy precisely & clinically, practically laparoscopically, from shale or other areas?

(BHO's rescinding Bush's permission to drill for oil offshore, BETTER & more GREENLY than Fidel & Hugo & China do, off Florida's coast)

40 itellu3times  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:12:56pm

ps - speaking of science, Charles - when I hit the refresh button lately in the previous thread, I got a weird message in my IE7, "a script is causing IE to run slowly", or something like that. I let it run - but never did get any more messages.

Things seem fine here and now.

41 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:13:33pm

All together now:

"Hopenchange! Hopenchange! Hopenchange!"

42 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:13:48pm

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, my family recently retired from Nasa and DoD space flight research. Grants are part of the game.

43 vxbush  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:13:55pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think that quote refers to the fact that UK, Europe, India, Israel have all been pouring huge amounts of money and effort into biotech research over the past 10 years. India's effort is like the Apollo program. In America this research is much harder to do because laws regarding cloning, chimeras, etc. and limited funding to biotech research. I'm happy to see that coming to an end.

But did the speaker just refer to biotech? The speaker was a physicist.

44 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:13:58pm

whats up with the "H" stuff - like "Hopenchange"?

sorry - being a bit slow here maybe..

45 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:13:59pm

re: #29 wrenchwench

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Reeducation camp for you!

Barry will have to invade Kragaristan first, and I've got my "quagmire and grim milestones" arsenal all filled up and ready for press.

46 Bob Dillon  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:03pm

The U.S. could shut down it's industrial production and it wouldn't mean jack with the pollution output of China alone now circling the world and increasingly measurable at every point on the globe more and more.

Further mental masturbation and moonbat wealth distribution schemes.

47 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:05pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

They quote my favorite line from the inaugural speech:

I want to see the harnessed soil.

ceramic horses?

48 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:05pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

They quote my favorite line from the inaugural speech:


I want to see the harnessed soil.

* * *
American agriculture could be back to harnessing donkeys to plow the soil, just you wait.

Mugabization! From breadbasket to basketcase.

49 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:21pm

Sniff sniff, I smell billions in science bailout grants.

50 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:26pm

The real priority should be energy independence, of course. And we need to look at alternative energy sources.

May I suggest a grant proposal for harnessing Barry's amazingly inflated sense of self-worth and competence.

51 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:38pm

I was reading an interview with Chu, I believe, the person put in charge of energy. And the guy started OK, but then went on about plug-in hybrids, without mentioning where we're supposed to generate all the electricity for powering them. More nuclear plants is the only solution I see.
And the new battery he was touting in that interview wouldn't be very useful to me here in Freezachusetts; it stopped working at 0C.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:14:56pm

Final sentence of the article:

Even though Obama and his staff members have promised to use science to drive policy, scientists say they need to stay vigilant against efforts to allow politics to drive science.

If "government money" is involved, politics are involved.

53 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:14pm

bear in mind folks that Obama hasnt announced anything for the space program...

my geek side isnt salivating yet...

54 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:18pm

re: #44 buzzdroid

whats up with the "H" stuff - like "Hopenchange"?

sorry - being a bit slow here maybe..

Okay...With an English accent:

"Openchange! Openchange! Openchange!"

55 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:28pm
Even though Obama and his staff members have promised to use science to drive policy, scientists say they need to stay vigilant against efforts to allow politics to drive science.

Considering his staff choices, Promising to use science to drive policy will be allowing politics to drive science.

56 firedupengineer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:31pm

"So that is how liberty falls! With thunderous applause!"

-Padme Amidala (while listening to Senator Palpatine's address to the galactic senate near the end of Star Wars - Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith. The Senator is outlining the emergence of the Empire and the downfall of the Jedi Council).

57 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:31pm

re: #53 buzzdroid

bear in mind folks that Obama hasnt announced anything for the space program...

my geek side isnt salivating yet...

What space program?

58 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:35pm
59 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:15:47pm

re: #25 A.W.

Of course if policy was to be driven by science, then we would stop seeing any discussion of global warming because the science just isn't as clear as the politicians are pretending it is.

It is often said it is important to separate church and state as much to protect the church from the corruption of state involvement as anything else.

Maybe we need to take the same attitude about science.

Politicians ARE using the junk AGW/ACC science to mandate and set policy. Politicians didn't invent the scam, they are taking advantage of an existing one.

60 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:16:33pm

re: #57 Nevergiveup

What space program?

indeed...

thats my point.

shuttles get dicommisioned in 2010.

meanwhile , china and india are beefing up their moon shot race..

61 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:16:43pm

re: #57 Nevergiveup

What space program?

Once they get a space suit that fits a unicorn, he'll announce it, but not until it is ready.

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:16:52pm

re: #43 vxbush

That applies to physics as well. We were on track to build a super collider like the one the Euros built at CERN. We scrapped our collider in the early 90's to save money. Now the cutting edge in particle physics is in Europe because we were to cheap and lacked to long term vision to push ahead.

63 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:18pm

re: #60 buzzdroid

indeed...

thats my point.

shuttles get dicommisioned in 2010.

meanwhile , china and india are beefing up their moon shot race..

pffft...we have way more DC-3s than they do

64 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:23pm

re: #54 96RoadKing

Okay...With an English accent:

"Openchange! Openchange! Openchange!"

is "openchange" some sort of obama meme?

why the H? english folks dont put a H in front of "open"...

65 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

re: #12 vxbush


I think that quote refers to the fact that UK, Europe, India, Israel have all been pouring huge amounts of money and effort into biotech research over the past 10 years. India's effort is like the Apollo program. In America this research is much harder to do because laws regarding cloning, chimeras, etc. and limited funding to biotech research. I'm happy to see that coming to an end.

* * * *
Oh India, yes--they have great Human Subject Protection don't you know--where gazillion GE ultrasound machines detect female embryos so they can be terminated.

Nice place, like China, when it comes to little pre-born girls.

66 onthow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:45pm

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government [e.g., science], the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law"

67 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:48pm

re: #60 buzzdroid

re: #57 Nevergiveup


indeed...

thats my point.

shuttles get dicommisioned in 2010.

meanwhile , china and india are beefing up their moon shot race..

Brings into more perspective Obama's choice of reading a book espousing 'Post American' influence.

68 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #57 Nevergiveup

re: #53 buzzdroid


What space program?

Obama Appointees,,,

The Space Shot Program!

69 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:57pm

re: #63 albusteve

pffft...we have way more DC-3s than they do

i know - Tom Cruise says so...

70 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:17:58pm

What a complete crock of sh*t.

71 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:03pm

re: #59 FurryOldGuyJeans

I would like to see the science that shows convincingly that the Earth has left behind the glacial-interglacial mode it is in; otherwise I think that "stopping global warming" equals "bringing on the next ice age sooner".

Just saying.

72 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:08pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Luckily, we know libs would never misrepresent scientific fact to influence policy or to suit their own agendas.

///

Thank you.
If I tried to say that, it would come out all wrong and I'd end up dinged down.

73 amphibian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:13pm

Very specialized kind of intelligence. I have been around people with advanced degrees for much of my life, so I know they're smart, but... get a bit outside their areas of expertise and the smart goes down the tubes. Problem is, they tend not to realize this...

I imagine Juggy told them what he knew they wanted to hear, and they took him at his word. Strange, really, since university departments tend to be political vipers' nests, and one would think the eggheads would know when someone was pulling a fast one on them.

74 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:30pm

re: #66 onthow

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government [e.g., science], the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law"

Excellent book.

75 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:39pm
76 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:18:49pm

re: #30 VioletTiger

I hope some sane scientist invents a vaccine against Hopenchange. There doesn't seem to be a cure right now, but things may change.

reality w*rks, but only in large doses over a long period of time.

77 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:10pm

re: #53 buzzdroid

bear in mind folks that Obama hasnt announced anything for the space program...

my geek side isnt salivating yet...

Probably still working on selecting the last trans-gendered, left-handed, dyslexic, Feminista for the advisory panel. Most can't seem to get out of their Wellsley teaching positions till the end of the term.

78 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:16pm

Interviewing a visibly uncomfortable Bob Woodward on his eponymous CNN show last night, Larry, 75, gushed: "My younger son Cannon, he is eight. And he now says that he would like to be black. I'm not kidding. He said there's a lot of advantages. Black is in. Is this a turning of the tide?"

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

79 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:34pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

lol

I have it on "speed post."

80 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:36pm

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

re: #13 Killgore Trout


My late father, who worked at one of the national laboratories, was quite candid about the need to tack to the prevailing winds when drafting grant proposals. This has been true for some 30-40 years at minimum, and only a liar (on the inside) or a fool (on the outside) does not know this.

Absolutely correct. It's rather like pitching ideas to movie moguls or VCs. If it's not in their current sweet spot, forget it. There's has to be an awful lot of missionary work done first. Which is why once a bandwagon gets started, it gets pushed by everyone in the group. It's a lot easier to push a rolling bandwagon a bit more than it is to start one from dead stop.

81 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:41pm

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

We both agree that grants are part of the process. There's no doubt about that. My point is that it just seems part of the conservative distrust of science by saying "they're just in it for the money". The Apollo program had to apply for grants, it doesn't make them greedy charlatans out to defraud the taxpayers.

82 MacGregor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:43pm

Remember Soros paid Hansen half a million dollars the year Hansen said Bush was screwing science by not acknowledging agw. The media has distorted this into hysterical conventional wisdom.

83 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:48pm

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

84 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:19:55pm

re: #64 buzzdroid

re: #54 96RoadKing


is "openchange" some sort of obama meme?

why the H? english folks dont put a H in front of "open"...


One way of considering it is that there's an emphasis on 'Hope', then again, if you're in line for bailout money, you're going to drop the 'H' and express a desire for the Treasury to just funnel the cash into the back of your semi truck.

85 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:05pm

re: #78 Nevergiveup

Interviewing a visibly uncomfortable Bob Woodward on his eponymous CNN show last night, Larry, 75, gushed: "My younger son Cannon, he is eight. And he now says that he would like to be black. I'm not kidding. He said there's a lot of advantages. Black is in. Is this a turning of the tide?"

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

Larry King has an 8 year old son? Science is great.

86 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:10pm

Let's see....

Fetal Stem cells, the least promising of the stem cell research, get federal funding.
Anthropogenic Global Warming, which so far is so promising they co-opted the skeptics term climate change, get massive funding and the results will in changing fundamentally our way of life.

Meanwhile NASA, doing good work with it's Mars, Saturn and deep probes is doing real work. Gets cut.
Military research to keep us safe and secure, and eventually trickles down into everyday life gets cut.

Hope and change.
Gotta love it.

87 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:13pm

While this putz is taking doe she know the smuggling is going on?

88 Colonel Panik  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:20pm

re: #53 buzzdroid

bear in mind folks that Obama hasnt announced anything for the space program...

my geek side isnt salivating yet...


It was my understanding that he wants to axe the rocket system that is supposed to replace the space shuttle. And we can probably kiss missile defense and the airborne laser system goodbye as well.

But I'm sure the global warming/stem cell crowd will be having an Obamagasm.

89 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:25pm

re: #77 Guanxi88

Probably still working on selecting the last trans-gendered, left-handed, dyslexic, Feminista for the advisory panel. Most can't seem to get out of their Wellsley teaching positions till the end of the term.

What, exactly, do Wellsley teaching positions look like?
Are they in the Kama Sutra?

90 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:34pm

re: #31 itellu3times

The left has built itself this fantasy that Bush hated and ignored science, based on the fact they did not fund a useless and ethically difficult subset of stem-cell research, and did not believe in global Algore.

See also the fantasy that Bush hated the environment because he "increased the amount of arsenic in drinking water."

91 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #53 buzzdroid

bear in mind folks that Obama hasnt announced anything for the space program...

my geek side isnt salivating yet...

save your spit for when Hopey McChange cancels everything space related.

92 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:20:41pm
“The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”

I guess none of these folks work for NASA.

93 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:01pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

re: #12 vxbush


I think that quote refers to the fact that UK, Europe, India, Israel have all been pouring huge amounts of money and effort into biotech research over the past 10 years. India's effort is like the Apollo program. In America this research is much harder to do because laws regarding cloning, chimeras, etc. and limited funding to biotech research. I'm happy to see that coming to an end.

I gotta call you on that one. Most US R&D takes place outside of government funding. In terms of Total R&D spenidning, the US is still near the top.....

Wiki on R&D


In 2006, the world's four largest spenders of R&D were the United States (US$343 billion), the EU (US$231 billion), Japan (US$130 billion), and China (US$115 billion). In terms of percentage of GDP, the order of these spenders for 2006 was China (US$115 billion of US$2,668 billion GDP), Japan, United States, EU with approximate percentages of 4.3, 3.2, 2.6, and 1.8 respectively. The top spenders in terms of percentage of GDP were China, Sweden, Finland, Japan, South Korea, Switzerland, Iceland, United States, followed by 9 other countries, and then the EU. [1]

Cynic that I am, I think these scientists want more federally funded R&D because there is less stringency there in terms of being held accountable for results.

94 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:21pm

Everthing before was PO - PreObama.

This is the new year 1

95 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:21pm

re: #89 mean Gene

What, exactly, do Wellsley teaching positions look like?
Are they in the Kama Sutra?

Homophobe! (and yes, they're in the appendix)

96 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:21pm

re: #71 Ojoe

I would like to see the science that shows convincingly that the Earth has left behind the glacial-interglacial mode it is in; otherwise I think that "stopping global warming" equals "bringing on the next ice age sooner".

Just saying.

No matter how you parse it the science is junk and is based on little to no good data and one huge agenda. Scientific policy set by non-scientists will be such a bust.

97 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:29pm

re: #54 96RoadKing

Okay...With an English accent:

"Openchange! Openchange! Openchange!"

That's IT! Everyone has ignored the Obama's middle initial because they are all speaking Cockney!

98 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:55pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

Charles, I think all of us are stoked that science will be taking a leading role in the new administration. With that being said, we don't want politics to drive the science. I'm all for science, but if it's twisted to meet an agenda, it's just as bad as creationism.

99 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:56pm

Does he know Fatah was also firing missiles into Israel?

100 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:21:58pm

Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.

101 A.W.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:22:09pm

btw, i think the harnessed soil comment was a refence to biofuels, like ethanol, to be fair to The One.

102 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:22:27pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

No argument from me about that.

103 maddogg  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:22:41pm
In early 2004, more than 60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, issued a statement claiming that the Bush administration had systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry.


Why does the tag Nobel laureate make me suspicious of your motives?

104 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:11pm

re: #66 onthow

every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all

Just quoting you because it needs to be said again.

105 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:12pm

re: #64 buzzdroid

is "openchange" some sort of obama meme?

why the H? english folks dont put a H in front of "open"...

hto hcelebrate hthe hDear hLeader's hCoronation, hwe've hdecided hto hhonor hhim hthis hway......

106 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:13pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

re: #43 vxbush

That applies to physics as well. We were on track to build a super collider like the one the Euros built at CERN. We scrapped our collider in the early 90's to save money. Now the cutting edge in particle physics is in Europe The Caliphate because we were to cheap and lacked to long term vision to push ahead.


* * *
It's not cutting edge Europe, it's cutting edge Eurabia of the Caliphate. (like nuclear Pakistan, so high tech!)

107 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:19pm

I heard that the space program will be super under Barry. He's changed everything, you know, and so escape velocity, by executive order, has been reduced to the tops speed of a Smart car, and the speed of light is now slowed down to a more ecologically sensible 55 mph.

108 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:40pm

re: #98 Jetpilot1101

Charles, I think all of us are stoked that science will be taking a leading role in the new administration. With that being said, we don't want politics to drive the science. I'm all for science, but if it's twisted to meet an agenda, it's just as bad as creationism.

We have science now driving policy; AGW/ACC. We need REAL science, not junk science.

109 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:23:44pm

My 3000th post. I accept this award and I want to thank everyone I’ve ever met in my entire life. This makes up for the lizard strip search.

110 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:01pm

re: #100 lawhawk

Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.

Actually, this time around it's worse and going to get a whole lot worse.

111 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:11pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

I concede this point, though in some cases, they are misrepresenting facts. I know in some cases, Bush provided no Federal funding for certain technologies but made no attempts to limit private funding, which they attempt to portray as a ban.

112 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:16pm

Yes, two days in and all is going smoothly as planned.


GITMO to close.... check

Be kinder to terrorists......check

Subvert the education system.....done deal

Control scientific research.....check

Government owned financial institutions.....done deal

stay tuned, 3.99 more years to go.

113 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:16pm

re: #93 DeafDog

Cynic that I am, I think these scientists want more federally funded R&D because there is less stringency there in terms of being held accountable for results.

A lot of the biotech R&D will be lost if 0bama sticks us with a national health care system, because the government isn't going to want to pay for expensive new drugs.
Right now, they think they want a national health care system so more people can afford medication, but they'll be unpleasantly surprised when even the Democrats won't fund it well enough to give everybody the new medicines.

114 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:20pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

I think the bottom line will be that if there is money to spend, some of it will go to science. That is good, for its own sake, and for my two brothers who are scientists who work for the government. If the economy tanks, science will suffer before a lot of other items do. One brother had rolling layoffs in his lab for a few months last year.

115 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:22pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

re: #12 vxbush


I think that quote refers to the fact that UK, Europe, India, Israel have all been pouring huge amounts of money and effort into biotech research over the past 10 years. India's effort is like the Apollo program. In America this research is much harder to do because laws regarding cloning, chimeras, etc. and limited funding to biotech research. I'm happy to see that coming to an end.

If that was what they meant, would he have not said that the state of science and technology is in very bad shape and that the way to rectify it is more money?

116 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:24pm

re: #93 DeafDog

Cynic that I am, I think these scientists want more federally funded R&D because there is less stringency there in terms of being held accountable for results.

cynic that I am I suppose they want to put beans on the table as well...actual research would be a distant second consideration...

117 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:24:51pm

re: #108 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #98 Jetpilot1101


We have science now driving policy; AGW/ACC. We need REAL science, not junk science.

Exactly!

118 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:25:11pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

Heavy handed how? Because they wanted to see a result?

119 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:08pm

re: #109 faraway

My 3000th post. I accept this award and I want to thank everyone I’ve ever met in my entire life. This makes up for the lizard strip search.

I didn't get a award at 3000. I didn't even get cake.

120 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:23pm

i'm a bit concerned that for all "intelligence" of the Obama team, that the space program doesnt get a mention on whitehouse.gov

if we want to be fossil fuel independent , the answer is staring at us pretty much every night - its called the moon. which has ENDLESS quantities of deuterium.. a hydrogen isotope that could well be a fuel for nuclear fusion technology...

we HAVE to go to the moon. there's no way round it.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Helium-3 is another potential fusion fuel source - and again, there is bucketloads of it on the moon
[Link: www.space.com...]

i'm not impressed so far. solar and wind just wont do it.

and reforming the healthcare system wont mark him in history..
(whereas EVERYONE remembers JFK as the guy that kick started the Apollo program..)

121 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:25pm

Obama just said he is gonna ask more of our allies for help in Afghanistan. Has he heard they already said no to any more troops?

122 Mike in Georgia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:27pm

We used to do a lot of research here in the south in alternative
fuels. But the government kept messing it up.
Damn revenuers.

123 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #85 faraway

Larry King has an 8 year old son? Science is great.

i just wonder who the father is.......

/white smoke

124 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #119 Opinionated

re: #109 faraway


I didn't get a award at 3000. I didn't even get cake.

At 2000, I got a Zionist Honco check.

125 Da Coyote  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:26:39pm

Goes to show that even folks with considerable IQs are influenced by govt $$. A prime example of this is the global warming debacle.

Guess greed triumphs over morality and good judgement much too often.

126 dentate  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:27:06pm

OK, let's see what happens to the moon and Mars programs. I have a feeling this pronouncement by the scientific community may be a bit of wishful thinking. They have pretty much nothing to base it on.

127 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:27:35pm

re: #100 lawhawk

Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.

Not to mention soup lines, families sending there kids away to relatives that have food/ shelter.

128 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #112 vagabond trader

Yes, two days in and all is going smoothly as planned.

GITMO to close.... check

Be kinder to terrorists......check

Subvert the education system.....done deal

Control scientific research.....check

Government owned financial institutions.....done deal

stay tuned, 3.99 more years to go.

The Obameter has these done deals:
*Require taxpayers to report more detail on capital gains taxes
*Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq
*Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.

129 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:04pm

re: #113 Kosh's Shadow

re: #93 DeafDog


A lot of the biotech R&D will be lost if 0bama sticks us with a national health care system, because the government isn't going to want to pay for expensive new drugs.
Right now, they think they want a national health care system so more people can afford medication, but they'll be unpleasantly surprised when even the Democrats won't fund it well enough to give everybody the new medicines.


Absolutely correct!

The way the Dems pillory the drug companies, one would have no idea that those folks send 10s of billions a year on R&D. The amount spent on Stem Cell research by the feds is a pittance in comparison.

130 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:14pm

re: #119 Opinionated

I didn't get a award at 3000. I didn't even get cake.

5000, it's at 5000. It's a deep secret of lizardom. But it's similar to this.....
See you under DIA at 5000 ;-)

131 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:27pm

G-D I am sickened by Obama already. How many failed retreads can he possibly bring back? And how many failed policies?

132 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:32pm
133 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:34pm

re: #110 Jetpilot1101

re: #100 lawhawk


Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.


Actually, this time around it's worse and going to get a whole lot worse.

I'm praying you forgot the sarc tag! If not, please explain how "actually,,,,,,it's worse,,,"

134 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #124 Jetpilot1101

At 2000, I got a Zionist Honco check.

I hope you cashed it, if it came from Olmert, it could be stopped prematurely.

135 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:29:03pm

re: #118 DeafDog

Heavy handed how? Because they wanted to see a result?

Good science doesn't work like a business balance sheet. Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.

136 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #94 Opinionated

Everthing before was PO - PreObama.

This is the new year 1 0

FTFY!

137 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:29:49pm

re: #116 albusteve


I think our cynicisms are similar, but my cynicism is much more heartfelt.

/

138 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:29:52pm

re: #130 jcm

5000, it's at 5000. It's a deep secret of lizardom. But it's similar to this.....
See you under DIA at 5000 ;-)

Are you a Son of Neptune?

Signed,
Pollywog

139 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:14pm

re: #125 Da Coyote

Goes to show that even folks with considerable IQs are influenced by govt $$. A prime example of this is the global warming debacle.

Guess greed triumphs over morality and good judgement much too often.

Scientists are human and so show all the same frailties.

140 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:18pm

re: #128 mean Gene

What a crock that last one is.Loopholes you could drive a smart car through.

141 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:18pm
142 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:31pm

So, Obama goes to the State department and appoints two relic envoys for Israel/Palestine and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

/WHAT ABOUT IRAN?

143 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:44pm

re: #135 FurryOldGuyJeans

Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.

Then Obama must be some mad science experiment gone horribly wrong.

144 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:30:59pm

re: #142 Killian Bundy

So, Obama goes to the State department and appoints two relic envoys for Israel/Palestine and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

/WHAT ABOUT IRAN?

The One is going to talk to The Short One One on One

145 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:09pm

re: #101 A.W.

btw, i think the harnessed soil comment was a refence to biofuels, like ethanol, to be fair to The One.

* * * *
You all remember liberals' singing ethanol's praises during the Iowa primaries? Pandering to corn growers? Remember subsidies to corn based ethanol fuel distorted the price of corn so much than people around the world suffered hunger.

Mexico's corn tortillas became too expensive for poor mexicans because corn prices were being artificially inflated by the distorted subsidies for ethanol.

146 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:09pm

re: #100 lawhawk

Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.

give Juggy 6 months to a year....... we'll likely have most of that.

147 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:17pm

The Bush Admin was right to prioritize adult stem cell research. Turns out they're better than embryonic stem cells, the research of which which came under a lot of flak. Was that "heavy-handed"? It sounds pretty prescient in retrospect. Wish I knew more about all this.

To what extent was the NSF funding process affected by the Bush admin? That stuff is peer-reviewed: the agency mainly acts as a pass through. There could be new funding initiatives, new programs, and adjustments to programs here and there, but that's normal.

148 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:18pm

re: #136 redc1c4

FTFY!

I'm afraid the next four years will be zero.

149 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:20pm

re: #142 Killian Bundy

So, Obama goes to the State department and appoints two relic envoys for Israel/Palestine and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

/WHAT ABOUT IRAN?

I thought it is rumored that will be Dennis Ross.

150 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:22pm

re: #131 Nevergiveup

A partial list.

151 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:31:41pm

re: #131 Nevergiveup

G-D I am sickened by Obama already. How many failed retreads can he possibly bring back? And how many failed policies?

the Gitmo thing is troubling... because Barry is going to dump all those terrorists on other countries.

Dumbasses like Britain have already lined up to take them in...

(gee - thanks... )

152 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:18pm
153 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:20pm

re: #142 Killian Bundy

I suspect that will be for Ms. Rodham. She has special friends there.

154 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #135 FurryOldGuyJeans

Good science doesn't work like a business balance sheet. Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.

That's something few wrap their heads around. In science failure has value, and meaning, it's more definitive than success.

Properly understood failure says "it is not this."
Success only says "it may be this, and / or other things too."

155 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #142 Killian Bundy

So, Obama goes to the State department and appoints two relic envoys for Israel/Palestine and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

/WHAT ABOUT IRAN?

Our spooks are gonna' cozy up to them to find shared interests.

156 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #145 alegrias

* * * *
You all remember liberals' singing ethanol's praises during the Iowa primaries? Pandering to corn growers? Remember subsidies to corn based ethanol fuel distorted the price of corn so much than people around the world suffered hunger.

Mexico's corn tortillas became too expensive for poor mexicans because corn prices were being artificially inflated by the distorted subsidies for ethanol.

not to mention food riots in Egypt and elsewhere...

"green" fuels = people starve...

157 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:52pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

I think the Bush administration was VERY smart when it came to science. Especially science that would step on the profits of the big money sponsors of our government.

I lost my job because Bush cut funding to the National Renewable Energy Lab, which has a 25 year record of practicable transferable technology that has added to our knowledge of sustainable energy alternatives.

This was not a lab that produced pipe dreams and go no where projects. It wasn't until Bush began to run for his second term that he promised to restore certain funding levels to the lab.

In short, he played politics with my job and my life, science be damned.

158 Cathypop  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:32:53pm

stem cells, climate change, sex education and contraceptives
Yeah right! We need more research on these items.

159 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:33:29pm

re: #143 faraway

Then Obama must be some mad science experiment gone horribly wrong.

I said WELL-UNDERSTOOD. O is a cipher, thanks to the FMSM.

160 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:33:34pm

re: #150 lawhawk

Will they be on the frozen salary program?

161 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:33:50pm

re: #128 mean Gene

The Obameter has these done deals:
*Require taxpayers to report more detail on capital gains taxes
*Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq
*Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.

Numbers one and three, to these old eyes at least, seem innocuous at worst and possibly very positive. Especially the part about new hires.

Or should corruption be OK unless they catch you at it?

162 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:33:52pm

re: #128 mean Gene

*Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.

How could the people being hired know this? Wouldn't this be a question for the ones doing the hiring?

Not to mention the fact that if anyone is doing this, they will lie.

This sounds like a CYA form so that when hires ARE made on political affiliation, the employer can point to the form as "evidence" to the contrary.

163 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:33:54pm

re: #138 faraway

Are you a Son of Neptune?

Signed,
Pollywog

Sorry no, I was a wing wiper.

We stole shamelessly from the Son's of Neptune for lizard ceremonies.
;-)

164 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:34:00pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #83 Charles


I concede this point, though in some cases, they are misrepresenting facts. I know in some cases, Bush provided no Federal funding for certain technologies but made no attempts to limit private funding, which they attempt to portray as a ban.

* * *
And when scientists tried to do some of these procedures (some kinds of cloning techniques) in countries such as South Korea & China, even those countries decided to ban them. After some serious scandals.

165 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:34:35pm

re: #135 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #118 DeafDog


Good science doesn't work like a business balance sheet. Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.

That's nice. Cyncially continuing, I hear the same arguments about good Art, too. Should the Feds be pumping billions to promote starving artists so one of them can write the next Hamlet? I don't think so.

Likewise, I'm hesitent of a government trough for every scientist to try to discover the secrets of time travel.

166 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:35:30pm

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz, I suspect NSF grant program managers hire external consultant teams to evaluate applications. The number of apps has to be very high. My only observations have been in an EPSCOR state, so I can imagine that a non-EPSCOR state probably produces a lot more applications. True?

167 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

re: #110 Jetpilot1101


re: #100 lawhawk


Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.


Actually, this time around it's worse and going to get a whole lot worse.

I'm praying you forgot the sarc tag! If not, please explain how "actually,,,,,,it's worse,,,"

Here's a few facts:
Total Federal Debt in 1933 - 360 Billion (2008 Dollars) 40% GDP
Total Federal Debt in 2008 - Just under 11 Trillion 70% GDP

Add to that approx 53 Trillion in unfunded mandates (social security, medicare etc.)

This translates into a 455,000 mortgage for every American household with nothing to back it up.

How are we going to pay for this when this country is based on consumerism as opposed to manufacturing as it was in 1933?

No country in their right mind is going to lend us money.

Summary, we're f---ed.

Email me if you would like my sources.

168 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:35:48pm

re: #165 DeafDog

re: #135 FurryOldGuyJeans


re: #118 DeafDog


Good science doesn't work like a business balance sheet. Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.


That's nice. Cyncially continuing, I hear the same arguments about good Art, too. Should the Feds be pumping billions to promote starving artists so one of them can write the next Hamlet? I don't think so.

Likewise, I'm hesitent of a government trough for every scientist to try to discover the secrets of time travel.

Well ,, we just elected a travel back to the Carter years ,, does tjhat count!?!?!

169 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:00pm

re: #163 jcm

Sorry no, I was a wing wiper.

We stole shamelessly from the Son's of Neptune for lizard ceremonies.
;-)

Got my card in '71.
We pollywogs actually managed to capture the XO, and ransomed him!

170 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:11pm

re: #93 DeafDog

R&D is not limited to science. Those figures also include new packaging for soda, a new 2 pound cheese burger for McDonalds, new fluorescent colouring for snack chips, etc.

171 dentate  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:18pm

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

You are correct! I would add that when resources are scarce, and less than 8% of grants submitted to the NIH get funded, they tend to go to big name, established labs, which are seen as better bets for success. This shuts out new folks with new ideas. There was once a FIRST program at NIH to foster innovation by creating grants especially for new investigators just setting up new labs; it went away under CLINTON, not under Bush. Again, I think this gushing statement on Obama's support for science is wishful thinking, nothing more. Time will tell.

172 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #162 Silhouette

How could the people being hired know this? Wouldn't this be a question for the ones doing the hiring?

Not to mention the fact that if anyone is doing this, they will lie.

This sounds like a CYA form so that when hires ARE made on political affiliation, the employer can point to the form as "evidence" to the contrary.

Or scapegoat the employee, fire him, and go merrily on...

173 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:40pm

re: #147 godfrey

The Bush Admin was right to prioritize adult stem cell research. Turns out they're better than embryonic stem cells, the research of which which came under a lot of flak. Was that "heavy-handed"? It sounds pretty prescient in retrospect.

May be able to fix a broken heart with adult stem cells soon

174 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:36:59pm

re: #165 DeafDog

re: #135 FurryOldGuyJeans


re: #118 DeafDog


Good science doesn't work like a business balance sheet. Science advances from well-understood failures more than successes at times.


That's nice. Cyncially continuing, I hear the same arguments about good Art, too. Should the Feds be pumping billions to promote starving artists so one of them can write the next Hamlet? I don't think so.

Likewise, I'm hesitent of a government trough for every scientist to try to discover the secrets of time travel.

I really don't see how art equals science.

175 Colonel Panik  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #120 buzzdroid

and reforming the healthcare system wont mark him in history..
(whereas EVERYONE remembers JFK as the guy that kick started the Apollo program..)

Too many Americans voted for the guy with the Wright Stuff, and not the guy with the Right Stuff.

176 KingKenrod  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:37pm

Commence Operation Gravy Train

177 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:41pm

Got to go Lizards, play nice!

178 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:42pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

You forget the /sarc tag again, Walter? Playing politics with science AIN'T smart. Unless you truly think what Gore is doing with AGW/ACC is smart.

179 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:44pm

re: #121 Nevergiveup

Obama just said he is gonna ask more of our allies for help in Afghanistan. Has he heard they already said no to any more troops?

* * **
Silly wabbit, our allies were just saying no to Pres. Bush, not to Pres. Obama! Everything's changed.

I'm sure now they want to do everything Pres. Obama asks of them.
(sarc)

180 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:45pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

We both agree that grants are part of the process. There's no doubt about that. My point is that it just seems part of the conservative distrust of science by saying "they're just in it for the money". The Apollo program had to apply for grants, it doesn't make them greedy charlatans out to defraud the taxpayers.

I don't distrust science - I am a scientist, and know only too well how the scientific establishment works. It's just a lot easier to swim with the tide than against it. I myself have written grant proposals that purported to address whatever the hot button issue of the day was, but in fact actually proposed exactly what I'd wanted to do in the first place, but just included a little literary cologne in the introduction to make it relevant to the hot button issue. Grant money is oxygen to a scientist; lose it, and you're done.

Your Apollo program example was ill-chosen. Any thoughts on why NASA launched the Challenger against the advice of their own engineers and Morton Thiokol? Or why they had an effing schoolteacher on a space mission to teach her class from space, for God's sake? Can you say "PR stunt to keep the bucks coming?" I can.

181 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:52pm

So, "sex education" now counts as scientific research?

Did I miss something?

182 J.S.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

The Superconducting Super Collider was shut down in 1993, under the Clinton administration.

183 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:38:21pm

.MandyManners


I really don't see how art equals science.

re: #174

I once new a Scientist named Art ,,, does that help ?

184 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:38:24pm
“If you look at the science world, you see a lot of happy faces,” said Frank Press, a former president of the National Academy of Sciences and former science adviser to President Jimmy Carter. “It’s not just getting money. It’s his recognition of what science can do to bring this country back in an innovative way.”

Wonder if he subscribes to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion like his former boss?

185 tokyobk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:38:37pm

Let's see what the deeds are, but Obama's words on Israel and its longevity and pressure on the Arab world to accept the reality of a Jewish State and American's partnership with that democracy, as well as his complete blaming of Hamas for its people's suffering, were encouraging.

It may not be good enough for some here, but believe me some tops blew in the Muslim world over his clear statements.

186 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:38:45pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

That's the fundamental problem with Federal Funding of science research.
It becomes political. GWB cut your research. BHO will promote AGW.

Both are wrong headed moves.

Some research is too big for private entities to take on. Space, the Super Conduction Super Collider.

The question is how do fund good science when large scale funding is needed and keep the politics out of it.

187 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:02pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

Lots of clinical trials, baby. You had to be there! Ah, those were the days.

188 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:10pm

re: #155 MandyManners

re: #142 Killian Bundy


Our spooks are gonna' cozy up to them to find shared interests.

[snaps fingers] I've got it! Scientific Islamic Sex Education!

189 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:46pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

So, "sex education" now counts as scientific research?

Did I miss something?

How to grow a better banana. (Harking back to Jocelyn Elders.)

190 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:47pm

PS: Scientists aren't greedy charlatans out to defraud taxpayers; they're just like everyone else, including exhibiting self-interest and opportunism on occasion.

191 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:52pm

re: #186 jcm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

That's the fundamental problem with Federal Funding of science research.
It becomes political. GWB cut your research. BHO will promote AGW.

Both are wrong headed moves.

Some research is too big for private entities to take on. Space, the Super Conduction Super Collider.
The question is how do fund good science when large scale funding is needed and keep the politics out of it.

Are you nuts? My 14 year old built one in the backyard!

192 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:39:58pm

The increase in grant money can be used to figure out a way to clone Barack Obama so that he - or should I say his clones - can continue to be elected President forever.

Keep Hope alive!

193 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:06pm

re: #183 sattv4u2

.MandyManners


I really don't see how art equals science.

re: #174

I once new a Scientist named Art ,,, does that help ?

Yes. Yes, it does.

194 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:15pm

Hey! I just realized that anybody can be a 'scientist': WE'RE ALL GONNA BE RICH!

195 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:22pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

So, "sex education" now counts as scientific research?

Did I miss something?

Didn't you hear? Jenna Jameson has a Phd and works for the Department of the Interior.

196 kcladderman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:26pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

So, "sex education" now counts as scientific research?

Did I miss something?

Well then maybe I did better at science in high school than I thought.

197 jcm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:38pm

re: #169 jwb7605

Got my card in '71.
We pollywogs actually managed to capture the XO, and ransomed him!

Mutiny!
Did you get keel hauled?
/ ;-)

Sounds memorable!

198 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:40:46pm

re: #185 tokyobk

Yeah, like he clearly supported an UNDIVIDED Jerusalem until he changed his mind next day.

199 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:41:00pm

re: #180 Occam's Beard

literary cologne

I'm writing that one down.

200 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:41:06pm

re: #195 Creeping Eruption

re: #181 Occasional Reader


Didn't you hear? Jenna Jameson has a Phd and works for the Department of the Interior.

Big Dept! MANY have been into her interior ( and posterior also ! )

201 buzzdroid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:41:52pm

why britain is lost... part 9,417
( suggestion to charles - you really need to do a running "britain is lost" meme... )


[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

"A young mother who allowed her three-year-old son to smoke cigarettes at home was freed by a judge today - for her children's sake"

202 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:22pm

re: #196 kcladderman

re: #181 Occasional Reader


Well then maybe I did better at science in high school than I thought.

Back seat ,,,, 1969 Oldsmobile ,, was that you !?!?!

203 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:22pm

re: #184 MJ

"It’s his recognition of what science can do to bring this country back in an innovative way."

Again, I'm thinking that some of these people think that they can reshape America--and, Americans--along more scientific lines. Science should serve humanity, not shape it.

204 DistantThunder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:23pm

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

205 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:31pm

re: #182 J.S.

Yes, that was my point. We're dropping the ball.

206 Cathypop  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:39pm

re: #201 buzzdroid

why britain is lost... part 9,417
( suggestion to charles - you really need to do a running "britain is lost" meme... )


[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

"A young mother who allowed her three-year-old son to smoke cigarettes at home was freed by a judge today - for her children's sake"

Someone should do a scientific study on that.

207 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:42:51pm
208 Scion9  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:43:05pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

That applies to physics as well. We were on track to build a super collider like the one the Euros built at CERN. We scrapped our collider in the early 90's to save money. Now the cutting edge in particle physics is in Europe because we were to cheap and lacked to long term vision to push ahead.

Bill Clinton scrapped our super-collider, and the bureaucrats stated that they did so because they didn't feel the need to 'show off' and flex our technological muscles to the rest of the world. If you listen to the rhetoric it had nothing to do with the money and everything to do with dragging ourselves down so Europe could catch up. Not to mention the CERN collider was built with tons of American money and ingenuity, just not to our benefit.

We did the same thing over and over again during Clinton (and continued by Bush), by handing technology to European and Asian countries (or independent 'international' companies) and then buying our own stuff from them. So far there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that we aren't going to continue with the same Clinton policy of letting science fall to the wayside while Europe plays catch up, which is still going to take decades if it ever happens at all.

Science isn't the goal; 'fairness' is.

209 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:43:10pm

re: #188 Occasional Reader

re: #155 MandyManners


re: #142 Killian Bundy


Our spooks are gonna' cozy up to them to find shared interests.


[snaps fingers] I've got it! Scientific Islamic Sex Education!

Animal husbandry 101.

210 Cathypop  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:43:29pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

AAAHHH the joy of being a parent

211 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:43:36pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

Gee, the sky is a lot lower than it used to be.

He has known about this project for.....? ;-)

212 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:43:55pm

Frankly I'm more concerned with keeping our military strong and up to date. Cloning,pie in the sky cure alls,climate bs, not so much.

213 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:07pm

I expect to see much more of this guy now.

214 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:09pm

re: #165 DeafDog

That's nice. Cyncially continuing, I hear the same arguments about good Art, too. Should the Feds be pumping billions to promote starving artists so one of them can write the next Hamlet? I don't think so.

Likewise, I'm hesitent of a government trough for every scientist to try to discover the secrets of time travel.

Science has more than the simply aesthetic benefit that art has. If it hadn't been for the space race a large chunk of the US economy simply would not exist. The Manhattan Project was more than just creating a big bang. Science advancement is not a straight-line thing. You might as well ask what the benefit of a new born baby is.

215 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:13pm

re: #186 jcm

Depends how you define politics. Every decision about strategic allocation of limited funds is "political" to a point, simply because it selects only one from what may be multiple good options.

What is obviously bad is selecting scientific research on the basis of how well its activity may support a priori ideological propositions.

216 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:27pm

re: #187 godfrey

re: #181 Occasional Reader

Lots of clinical trials, baby. You had to be there! Ah, those were the days.

I'm gunning for a Nobel Prize in YEAH BABY!

217 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:36pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

Go to your local crafts store. Get that green stuff they stick fake flowers in (floral somthin or other) It cuts and glues together easily. My son made the Inca Pyramids outta it in about 3 hours

218 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:36pm

re: #212 vagabond trader

Frankly I'm more concerned with keeping our military strong and up to date. Cloning,pie in the sky cure alls,climate bs, not so much.

I think you and me are gonna be real unhappy the next few years.

219 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:40pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

Maybe it's time to tell him about Momma's Grant Application Deadline, which he blew.

220 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:44:45pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

For social "science" my 11-year-old son has to build a 2 foot high skyscraper - by tomorrow. He just announced this to me.

With a chicken wire foundation to prove that "fire can't melt steel"?

221 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:45:34pm

re: #212 vagabond trader

Frankly I'm more concerned with keeping our military strong and up to date. Cloning,pie in the sky cure alls,climate bs, not so much.

Actually, stem cells are going to revolutionizing medicine under the mainstream radar at the moment.

222 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:46:11pm

re: #212 vagabond trader

Frankly I'm more concerned with keeping our military strong and up to date.

Of course, scientific research is very much part of that, and in my opinion an area where the government has a vital role in promoting the applicable research. Of course, in this present case, I worry that The One will view with distaste any research that's about breaking things and killing people, and will instead direct those dollars to Gorebull Warming or what have you.

223 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:46:17pm

re: #211 Silhouette

Gee, the sky is a lot lower than it used to be.

He has known about this project for.....? ;-)

Make it from chicken wire and see what happens if you crash a paper plane into it. If the teacher is a leftard, he'll get a great grade.
/

224 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:46:30pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

re: #93 DeafDog

R&D is not limited to science. Those figures also include new packaging for soda, a new 2 pound cheese burger for McDonalds, new fluorescent colouring for snack chips, etc.

I understand your point. 'Basic' research is different from 'applied' R&D.

When it comes to picking winners and losers, however, government is notoriously bad. Government may have a role in funding basic research. I am unconvinced, however, that it should be a major federal role.

I'm open to being convinced if you make a good argument, but India spends more on XXX (insert whatever you want here) basic research is not convincing to me.

225 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:46:42pm

I'd just like to point out that the whole "Obama to talk with Iran without preconditions" meme is a red herring.

Iran has set preconditions of its own, which we obviously will not meet.

So Obama is playing it smart here. "I wanted to talk, but Iran insisted we cut ties with Israel first, and that's not going to happen." And we're back to square one.

226 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:47:01pm

re: #221 faraway

one word; interferon.

227 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:47:52pm

re: #212 vagabond trader

Frankly I'm more concerned with keeping our military strong and up to date. Cloning,pie in the sky cure alls,climate bs, not so much.

* * *
Did you hear our troops in harm's way were using Pfizer's little blue pills (handing them out to men with many wives) to get valuable information & cooperation?

228 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:26pm

re: #222 Occasional Reader

The Obama is a junk potus.

229 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:29pm

re: #222 Occasional Reader

re: #212 vagabond trader


Of course, scientific research is very much part of that, and in my opinion an area where the government has a vital role in promoting the applicable research. Of course, in this present case, I worry that The One will view with distaste any research that's about breaking things and killing people, and will instead direct those dollars to Gorebull Warming or what have you.

Gotta' be fair to those who cannot match us on the battlefield by guttng our military technology budget and, we gotta' be fair to those who don't have the same standard of living by shutting down coal-fired plants.

230 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:39pm

re: #227 alegrias

* * *
Did you hear our troops in harm's way were using Pfizer's little blue pills (handing them out to men with many wives) to get valuable information & cooperation?

Great way to win hearts and minds. No sarc.

231 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:42pm

re: #225 Cato the Elder

I'd just like to point out that the whole "Obama to talk with Iran without preconditions" meme is a red herring.

Iran has set preconditions of its own, which we obviously will not meet.

So Obama is playing it smart here. "I wanted to talk, but Iran insisted we cut ties with Israel first, and that's not going to happen." And we're back to square one.

What makes you think the 0 won't cut ties with Israel, when they don't withdraw from the "settlements" just because his envoy says to do so?

232 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:42pm

I want more nano-scale research because it's a game-changer and will produce big economic returns for us. We are creative. Let's create new matter.

I want fusion power, cellulose ethanol, and better battery technology.

I want us to colonize Mars because it's there and the spin-off products are likely to be cool.

233 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:50pm

re: #227 alegrias

Did you hear our troops in harm's way were using Pfizer's little blue pills (handing them out to men with many wives) to get valuable information & cooperation?

Using sex for intelligence gathering is as old as intelligence gathering itself.

234 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:48:51pm

re: #217 sattv4u2

re: #204 DistantThunder


Go to your local crafts store. Get that green stuff they stick fake flowers in (floral somthin or other) It cuts and glues together easily. My son made the Inca Pyramids outta it in about 3 hours


AFAIK, the Incas didn't make pyramids. (Other pre-Inca cultures in the same areas they later occupied did, or at least they made sorta kinda pyramids. Did I say "occupied"? I meant, er, peacefully, lovingly expanded into... because we all know that only evil Europeans and Israelis "occupy" things.)

235 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:49:08pm
236 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:49:35pm
237 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:49:51pm

re: #174 MandyManners



I really don't see how art equals science.

I am not saying that. I'm saying "government funding of art" is similar to "government funding of sciene."

When I ask myself why Joe Six-pack in Detroit should have to pay for either, I have trouble rationalizing it.

238 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:49:53pm

re: #235 Iron Fist

The Democrats are trying to cause an Ice Age!

"Fur burkas," baby. It's the grand alliance.

239 davesax  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:50:49pm

I'm with Charles, Killgore, Walter and the scientists on this.

It's interesting seeing the anger on these boards about federal funding of scientific research.

Wonder how many of these same people are just as angry about the over 100 million + tax dollars that Bush threw at bogus "abstinence only" sex-education programs?

My guess is, not so many.

240 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:50:57pm

re: #195 Creeping Eruption

re: #181 Occasional Reader


Didn't you hear? Jenna Jameson has a Phd and works for the Department of the Interior.

I heard she was involved in lots of Supercollisions.

241 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:50:58pm

re: #227 alegrias

I read that,such primitive barbarians, but hey, whatever works.

242 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:51:23pm

re: #226 vagabond trader

re: #221 faraway

one word; interferon.

* * *
Wow, I knew someone in college who wrote a paper on interferon when it was a new new thing. Course the genome hadn't been mapped either, and DJhimmy Carter was our Commander Loser in chief...

243 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:51:27pm

re: #232 godfrey

I want more nano-scale research because it's a game-changer and will produce big economic returns for us. We are creative. Let's create new matter.

I want fusion power, cellulose ethanol, and better battery technology.

I want us to colonize Mars because it's there and the spin-off products are likely to be cool.

If you like all things "nano," and have not yet read it, check out a copy of Diamond Age

244 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:51:28pm

re: #232 godfrey

I want more nano-scale research because it's a game-changer and will produce big economic returns for us. We are creative. Let's create new matter.

I want fusion power, cellulose ethanol, and better battery technology.

I want us to colonize Mars because it's there and the spin-off products are likely to be cool.

Would you settle for a unicorn?

245 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:51:34pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

They quote my favorite line from the inaugural speech:

I want to see the harnessed soil.

You've completely missed the point. His was obviously a reference to biofuels, and the joke there is that the ethanol craze has been a complete disaster. As was predicted by anybody who did even a cursory analysis, producing ethanol has made no significant contribution to the cause of energy independence, while helping to triple the price of food. Ironically, the people who are hurt most by this (poor folk), and the people Moonbats supposedly care about the most (starving foreigners).

As to other biofuels, they don't really exist in any practical sense. The wind and solar he mentions still are not economically viable on their own, without govt subsidies.

But throwing unimaginable sums at economically inefficient technologies is supposed to save the economy. We're in for a really, really rough - and fairly long - patch here.

246 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:10pm

re: #230 Creeping Eruption

re: #227 alegrias


Great way to win hearts and minds. No sarc.

* * *Speaking of creepy eruptions!

247 Colonel Panik  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:16pm

Will they give Al Gore the funding he needs to stop ManBearPig?

248 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:34pm

re: #231 Kosh's Shadow

What makes you think the 0 won't cut ties with Israel, when they don't withdraw from the "settlements" just because his envoy says to do so?

Because having Israel as our ally in the Mideast is in America's interest. What, did you think we've stuck by them all these years just because it's the right thing to do?

249 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:38pm

re: #229 MandyManners

Gotta' be fair to those who cannot match us on the battlefield by guttng our military technology budget and, we gotta' be fair to those who don't have the same standard of living by shutting down coal-fired plants.

Thus we hear "proportionate response" and "sustainability." Cover harmful ideas with words that sound so nice and fair.

250 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:50pm

re: #232 godfrey

I want us to colonize Mars

It's all about colonialism for you self-subservient honcos, isn't it?

251 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:52:52pm

re: #234 Occasional Reader



AFAIK, the Incas didn't make pyramids. (Other pre-Inca cultures in the same areas they later occupied did, or at least they made sorta kinda pyramids. Did I say "occupied"? I meant, er, peacefully, lovingly expanded into... because we all know that only evil Europeans and Israelis "occupy" things.)


There are kinda sorta pyramids near Natchez, MS made by some Indians (I forget which).

252 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:53:22pm

re: #234 Occasional Reader

[Link: www.lost-civilizations.net...]

Inca pyramids in Peru.

253 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:53:48pm

re: #242 alegrias

I worked in a teaching hospital that used it in clinical trials. Worthless then, haven't kept up.

254 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #240 Occasional Reader

I heard she was involved in lots of Supercollisions.

True, but I heard that her specialty lies more with planetary sciences, witha focus on Uranus.

*rimshot* (No pun intended)

255 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:53:58pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

re: #234 Occasional Reader

[Link: www.lost-civilizations.net...]

Inca pyramids in Peru.

[Link: www.google.com...]

256 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:02pm

I love the arts and support it myself. I don't want the government involved. In other countries, it works okay because those countries have more homogeneous cultures. We have a lively chaos. How do you show a state's interest in any arts funding initiative? Let the market rule.

257 gmsc  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:11pm
258 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:17pm

re: #140 vagabond trader

What a crock that last one is.Loopholes you could drive a smart car through.

Especially if lying is irrelevant to you, like, say the incoming head of the IRS.
Can you imagine wanting someone there who lies about money and is smart enough to fool you about it?

259 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:22pm

re: #251 redstateredneck

There are kinda sorta pyramids near Natchez, MS made by some Indians (I forget which).

If those were Incas, they had even worse navigating skills than I do. (Refused to pull the llama over and ask directions, etc.)

260 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:25pm

re: #247 Colonel Panik

Will they give Al Gore the funding he needs to stop ManBearPig?

Maybe I missed a memo or two, but why would he want to stop himself?

261 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:27pm

re: #251 redstateredneck

see my 252 and 253

262 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:33pm

re: #237 DeafDog

re: #174 MandyManners

I really don't see how art equals science.

I am not saying that. I'm saying "government funding of art" is similar to "government funding of sciene."

When I ask myself why Joe Six-pack in Detroit should have to pay for either, I have trouble rationalizing it.

As others have noted above and previously, scientific research is cumulative and continues even after failure because failure brings knowledge. And, successful scientific processes can bring benefits to a whole host of other areas. How many NASA discoveries are used in every day life?

263 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:35pm

re: #225 Cato the Elder

I'd just like to point out that the whole "Obama to talk with Iran without preconditions" meme is a red herring.

Iran has set preconditions of its own, which we obviously will not meet.

So Obama is playing it smart here. "I wanted to talk, but Iran insisted we cut ties with Israel first, and that's not going to happen." And we're back to square one.

Even Iran isn't that stupid. As soon as they see which way the wind is blowing they will engage a naive Obama administration to buy time to build their bomb.

264 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:54:57pm

re: #234 Occasional Reader

re: #217 sattv4u2


re: #204 DistantThunder


Go to your local crafts store. Get that green stuff they stick fake flowers in (floral somthin or other) It cuts and glues together easily. My son made the Inca Pyramids outta it in about 3 hours


AFAIK, the Incas didn't make pyramids. (Other pre-Inca cultures in the same areas they later occupied did, or at least they made sorta kinda pyramids. Did I say "occupied"? I meant, er, peacefully, lovingly expanded into... because we all know that only evil Europeans and Israelis "occupy" things.)

* * *
Will you please stop bashing the jihadi conquering reconquista-winning Spanish Conquistadors's "research funded" exploits in the New World circa 1492!

265 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:55:30pm

re: #239 davesax

I'm with Charles, Killgore, Walter and the scientists on this.

It's interesting seeing the anger on these boards about federal funding of scientific research.

Wonder how many of these same people are just as angry about the over 100 million + tax dollars that Bush threw at bogus "abstinence only" sex-education programs?

My guess is, not so many.

What anger? I'm seeing folks asking for clarification, engaging in debate.

266 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #250 Occasional Reader

All your microbes are belong to us!

267 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #255 sattv4u2

re: #252 sattv4u2


re: #234 Occasional Reader

[Link: www.lost-civilizations.net...]

Inca pyramids in Peru.


[Link: www.google.com...]

The problem with that link is that the things they're identifying as "Inca pyramids" weren't built by the Incas, rather by pre-Inca cultures (as mentioned in my previous post).

268 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:55:47pm

re: #248 Cato the Elder

Because having Israel as our ally in the Mideast is in America's interest. What, did you think we've stuck by them all these years just because it's the right thing to do?

I'm not sure the 0ne really has America's interest at heart, at least not the way I understand America's interest.

269 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:56:27pm
President Obama went to the State Department this afternoon, where he and Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton announced that former Senate majority leader George Mitchell has been named a special envoy to the Middle East peace process, and that former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke will be a special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan.

...

..."The outline for a durable ceasefire" between Israel and Hamas in Gaza "is clear," Obama says. "Hamas must end its rocket fire. Israel will complete its withdrawal from Gaza."

And, "as part of lasting ceasefire, Gaza's crossings should be open" to allow aid to flow in.

The president also restates his commitment to "two states" in the region. He says "our hearts go out to Palestinian civilians who are in immediate need."


[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

The era of "even-handedness" has begun....

270 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:56:51pm

re: #262 MandyManners

As others have noted above and previously, scientific research is cumulative and continues even after failure because failure brings knowledge. And, successful scientific processes can bring benefits to a whole host of other areas. How many NASA discoveries are used in every day life?

And what about all the corporations that NASA hired to do the work that discovered things that have mutated into things we used daily?

271 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:56:53pm

Gotta' go pick up my little science experiment. bbl

272 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:57:04pm

re: #235 Iron Fist

re: #222 Occasional Reader

Without doubt. Because he promised to lower the oceans, and cool the climate. The Democrats are trying to cause an Ice Age!

* * *
And Al Gore is their prophet.

That gas & windbag Gore hosted the Green Inaugural Ball, where lefties wolfed down delicacies of all kinds, but on recycled utensils & paperware no doubt.

273 davesax  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:57:24pm

Can't they just make a nuclear contraceptive?

That would be something that both political parties could agree on.

274 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:57:24pm
275 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:57:43pm
276 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:04pm

re: #264 alegrias

re: #234 Occasional Reader


re: #217 sattv4u2


re: #204 DistantThunder


Go to your local crafts store. Get that green stuff they stick fake flowers in (floral somthin or other) It cuts and glues together easily. My son made the Inca Pyramids outta it in about 3 hours


AFAIK, the Incas didn't make pyramids. (Other pre-Inca cultures in the same areas they later occupied did, or at least they made sorta kinda pyramids. Did I say "occupied"? I meant, er, peacefully, lovingly expanded into... because we all know that only evil Europeans and Israelis "occupy" things.)

* * *
Will you please stop bashing the jihadi conquering reconquista-winning Spanish Conquistadors's "research funded" exploits in the New World circa 1492!


They "discovered" chocolate... I'd call that a research WIN!

277 KingKenrod  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:30pm

re: #207 Iron Fist

It was the Democrats, with the help of some wilting hothouse flowers that claim to be Republicans, that killed the research into low-yield nuclear weapons. It is the Democrats that have been trying to kill missile defense since the fucking Reagan Administration. they aren't trying tomake the world safe from nuclear holocaust.

They just want to be sure that America takes her share of damage if the flag does go up. As long as that is the case, I'm not going to take their whining too seriously. They want Iran to be able to nuke what, Washington DC? New York?

The whole point of the micro-nukes was to have the capability to take out fortified or buried weapons facilities, like they have in Iran. The Democrats don't want America to have this capability.

The whole point of the missile defense that we have been working on is to stop a limited strike from ICBMs from, you guessed it, Iran.

Why are the fucking Democrats working for Iran? How long have they been working for Iran? Since the '70s? That could very well be true for some of them. I wonder how much money Iran has put into Jimmy Carter's coffers over the decades?

It's the environmental movement which places Planet Earth above human freedom. Democrats haven't been able to buck this lobby on any issue for decades - and they haven't wanted to, since environmentalism gives them the perfect avenue to expanding government power and control.

278 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:32pm

I do believe the FDA needs a swift kick in the ass!
We can get treatment for my wifes daughter
for M.S.....In Mexico!
At 5000.00 a pop!
Sheep stem cell research/therapy needs to be allowed HERE!
My 2 cents!
Carry on!

279 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:44pm

re: #239 davesax

I'm with Charles, Killgore, Walter and the scientists on this.

Not all the scientists. I'm a scientist, and I'd like politics out of it as much as possible. And those that are scientific here have been on both sides of the debate.

And this isn't a simply case of Bush didn't fund science, Obama will. It is more like this science was funded and that was not, and now that science is funded and this is not. Trading space research for global warming, sex ed, and contraceptive research isn't everyone's cup of tea.

280 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:47pm

re: #269 MJ

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]
A

nd, "as part of lasting ceasefire, Gaza's crossings should be open" to allow aid to flow in Hamas to re-arm.

The president also restates his commitment to "two states" in the region. He says "our hearts go out to Palestinian civilians who are in immediate need."
The era of "even-handedness" has begun....

Fixed the first one; for the second, will he blame Ham-ass for stealing the aid, or Israel?

281 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:58:50pm

re: #239 davesax

Not against science at all, against waste at the expense of what is urgently needed. The Obama has made it abundantly clear that he has disdain for the military and plans to cut many weapons projects.Of course if you believe that sending billions overseas to abortion clinics, providing sex change operations for inmates, and rewarding junk science is critical, your opinion.

282 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:59:27pm

re: #239 davesax

I'm with Charles, Killgore, Walter and the scientists on this.

It's interesting seeing the anger on these boards about federal funding of scientific research.

Wonder how many of these same people are just as angry about the over 100 million + tax dollars that Bush threw at bogus "abstinence only" sex-education programs?

My guess is, not so many.

As pointed out above, I am a scientist. And $100 MM is chump change, lost in the decimal point. The budget of the NIH alone is over $25 billion. Never mind the NSF, DOE, ONR, etc.

283 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:59:43pm

re: #268 Kosh's Shadow

I'm not sure the 0ne really has America's interest at heart, at least not the way I understand America's interest.

That's odd. I often felt the same way about Bush.

But I never questioned his sincerity or his love for America.

284 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 12:59:52pm

re: #204 DistantThunder

Solution.

Go to supermarket. Buy plastic straws. Tape. Cardboard paper (if you don't already have).

Take 4 straws and cut them in half. Those will form the horizontal members, the full length members will be the horizontal beams. Tape the corners so that they form rectangular prism.

Repeat three more times. You'll have a skyscraper skeleton that just needs the outer skin - the paper.

/son of an architect

285 Pyrocles  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:00:00pm

"self-subservient honcos" Classic. That phrase will never die!

re: #250 Occasional Reader

It's all about colonialism for you self-subservient honcos, isn't it?

286 logboy  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:00:19pm

Quit your blubbering and get back to your microscopes you fucking pansies.

There. I feel better now.

287 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:00:30pm

This what the "Impartial AP" says about Richard Falk who was denied entry into Israel:

Richard Falk, an independent UN rights expert, said there was compelling evidence that Israel breached basic humanitarian rules and the laws of war by conducting a large-scale military operation "against an essentially defenseless population."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Independent my ass!

288 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:00:39pm

re: #258 mean Gene

Geithner is hooked up big time with the Chicoms. There's an excellent link from the overnite thread. Very disturbing.

289 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:01:37pm

re: #214 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #165 DeafDog


Science has more than the simply aesthetic benefit that art has. If it hadn't been for the space race a large chunk of the US economy simply would not exist. The Manhattan Project was more than just creating a big bang. Science advancement is not a straight-line thing. You might as well ask what the benefit of a new born baby is.

Point taken. {we would also not have Tang}

Is it fair, however, to draw a difference between applied science and basic research? The examples you give - NASA and Weapons programs - were persued with specific goals in mind. The spin-off technologies in both cases were enormous. Same sorts of spin-offs occur constantly with defense contractors.

I have no problem, obviously, with defense spending - including such R&D to promote that.

However, as McCain oft repeated in the last presidential campaign, federal funding to studiy the mating habbits of Polar Bears is in a different category. The federal dollars for basic research should be limited and I doubt that politicians are the right ones to decide which projects are more important than others.

290 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:01:40pm

re: #288 vagabond trader

Geithner is hooked up big time with the Chicoms. There's an excellent link from the overnite thread. Very disturbing.

And this is surprising?

291 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:01:48pm

re: #264 alegrias

Do you think 0bama will put this textbook in our pulic schools?
"Arab World Studies Notebook," teaches (fraudulently) that Muslim explorers married into the Algonquin tribe.
That gives Islam legal claim to the Americas!
Oh, and science-worshippers: "There was no [scholarly] peer review," said Peter DiGangi, director of Canada's Algonquin Nation Secretariat in Quebec, who says he was never contacted after lodging his complaint. "It was so outlandish. It never should have gone to press."
Hope and Change.

292 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:02:26pm
293 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:02:26pm

re: #256 godfrey

I love the arts and support it myself. I don't want the government involved. In other countries, it works okay because those countries have more homogeneous cultures. We have a lively chaos. How do you show a state's interest in any arts funding initiative? Let the market rule.

* * * *
How do you show a state's interest in any arts funding initiative?

Cokey DC Mayor Marion Barry fell asleep DURING one of his Mayoral Arts Awards Galas, back in the day. I have it from the horses' mouths of witnesses performing there who received such tax funding!

294 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:02:53pm

Anybody else notice how it says "it will take science and technology to get out of the mess", and then immediately proceeds to support that by claiming that one of the areas that the Bush administration allegedly hindered was in the area of "sex education and contraceptives"?

So... sex ed and contraceptives will help us "get out of this mess"? Huh? Ya' know, I'm no expert, but I really can't imagine what kind of "mess" someone must think we are in to suggest this as a partial solution. For one thing, I'm pretty sure that contraceptives are cheap, readily available, and everybody not living in a cave knows about them. It tries my imagination to think what bold new scientific advance in this area the evil Bush administration has inhibited.

295 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:04pm

re: #287 Nevergiveup

Which he says from the comfort of his office in California.

296 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:16pm

re: #284 lawhawk

The other day I saw the first projects of first-year architecture students at a very good architecture school. They had one piece of paper and a limited number of permissible cuts to make an interesting new structure.

My jaw dropped at some of them. Amazing.

297 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:17pm

just had a minor quake here.

likely would have missed it if i wasn't parked on my butt in front of the PC. %-)

298 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:47pm

re: #288 vagabond trader

Thanks, I'll use the search feature to find it.

299 funky chicken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:53pm

re: #21 lawhawk

As opposed to the Clinton Administration which never funded stem cell research? The critics of Bush's stem cell policies complain because he didn't go far enough in a new area of research (embryonic stem cell research), and to date one that hasn't been nearly as successful as other stem cell research lines (adult, cord blood, etc.)

This is about chasing research money, which universities need to sustain themselves (despite the fact that some of the biggest universities in the nation have huge endowments that could go to lowering tuition but don't).

Yeah, the huge endowments really piss me off. And now these same institutions are going to get billions in bailout money, much of which will probably get plunked right into the endowments.

I only wish the Bush admin had put a muzzle on that lunatic Hansen.

300 davesax  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:53pm

Occam:

That's fine, but I'm still with Charles on this.

I think this is basically good news.

301 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:55pm
302 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:03:56pm

re: #184 MJ

Oh geez, I missed that part that he was a former adviser of Carter's. Rice bowl protection!

303 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:04:54pm

re: #297 redc1c4

just had a minor quake here.

likely would have missed it if i wasn't parked on my butt in front of the PC. %-)

I felt that, too.
At first I thought, why am I swaying if I'm not dizzy? then I realized it was a small quake.

304 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:05:17pm

re: #267 Occasional Reader

re: #255 sattv4u2


re: #252 sattv4u2


re: #234 Occasional Reader

[Link: www.lost-civilizations.net...]

Inca pyramids in Peru.


[Link: www.google.com...]


The problem with that link is that the things they're identifying as "Inca pyramids" weren't built by the Incas, rather by pre-Inca cultures (as mentioned in my previous post).

The ones here were built in the middle ages.

305 Super-ego  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:05:40pm
“I think there’s now a consensus between the White House and the Congress that the future of the country relies on science,” Lubell said.

So, science being "amoral" and "apolitical", play a role in America's future?

That smells.

306 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:05:50pm

re: #96 FurryOldGuyJeans

These quotes are from the Brittanica article on "Climatic climate Change" (1980 edition, before the current brou-ha-ha).

"In the last 600,000,000 years, the Earth's climate, on a planetary scale, generally has been much warmer than it is today. At such times there are no ice caps near the poles, and there are no glaciers on even the highest mountain ranges. Instead, temperate conditions prevail beyond the Arctic Circle. This picture of a relatively warm, ice-free planet, applies for perhaps 95 percent of the geological past."

We are trying to preserve an anomaly.

307 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:06:22pm
308 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #287 Nevergiveup

This what the "Impartial AP" says about Richard Falk who was denied entry into Israel:

Richard Falk, an independent UN rights expert, said there was compelling evidence that Israel breached basic humanitarian rules and the laws of war by conducting a large-scale military operation "against an essentially defenseless population."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Independent my ass!

My favorite part:

"I believe that there is the prima facie case for reaching that conclusion," he told reporters in a telephone briefing from California.

309 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:07:19pm

Housekeeper and Taxes Are Said to Derail Kennedy’s Bid

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Maybe if these rich elite snobs cleaned their own houses and took care of their own kids, they wouldn't get into this trouble?

310 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:07:59pm

re: #308 Creeping Eruption

My favorite part:

"I believe that there is the prima facie case for reaching that conclusion," he told reporters in a telephone briefing from California.

Well he has real good eyes?
/

311 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:08:18pm

re: #291 mean Gene

That's spelled Al Gonquin.

/

312 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:08:41pm

re: #304 redstateredneckThe ones here were built in the middle ages.

Yeah, the North American Indians (north of Mexico) were a little behind the times. Pyramids were SO out of style by the time they got around to them... talk about wearing white after Labor Day, etc.

The Incas OTOH did build some extremely cool stuff, mind you... but AFAIK, they weren't into pyramids.

313 bulwrk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:08:56pm

re: #294 Optimizer

I'm no expert, but I really can't imagine what kind of "mess" someone must think we are in to suggest this as a partial solution.


It makes perfect sense if you are of the mindset that humans are destroying the planet and that there are too many of us here already.

314 funky chicken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:09:08pm

re: #294 Optimizer

Anybody else notice how it says "it will take science and technology to get out of the mess", and then immediately proceeds to support that by claiming that one of the areas that the Bush administration allegedly hindered was in the area of "sex education and contraceptives"?

So... sex ed and contraceptives will help us "get out of this mess"? Huh? Ya' know, I'm no expert, but I really can't imagine what kind of "mess" someone must think we are in to suggest this as a partial solution. For one thing, I'm pretty sure that contraceptives are cheap, readily available, and everybody not living in a cave knows about them. It tries my imagination to think what bold new scientific advance in this area the evil Bush administration has inhibited.

It could help if they got the contraceptives to massively overpopulated places in Africa. Of course that isn't what they are talking about.

315 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:09:37pm

re: #306 Ojoe

These quotes are from the Brittanica article on "Climatic climate Change"

Would the scientific sex ed (discussed above) presumably fall under the heading of "Climactic Change"?

316 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:09:39pm

re: #301 ploome hineni

HARRETZ SPREADING ANOTHER BLOOD LIBEL

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Why, it's Gideon Levy, Uzi Mahnaimi's twin brother.

317 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #207 Iron Fist

It was the Democrats, with the help of some wilting hothouse flowers that claim to be Republicans, that killed the research into low-yield nuclear weapons. It is the Democrats that have been trying to kill missile defense since the fucking Reagan Administration. they aren't trying tomake the world safe from nuclear holocaust.

They just want to be sure that America takes her share of damage if the flag does go up. As long as that is the case, I'm not going to take their whining too seriously. They want Iran to be able to nuke what, Washington DC? New York?

The whole point of the micro-nukes was to have the capability to take out fortified or buried weapons facilities, like they have in Iran. The Democrats don't want America to have this capability.

The whole point of the missile defense that we have been working on is to stop a limited strike from ICBMs from, you guessed it, Iran.

Why are the fucking Democrats working for Iran? How long have they been working for Iran? Since the '70s? That could very well be true for some of them. I wonder how much money Iran has put into Jimmy Carter's coffers over the decades?

That's a research project I'd be willing to fund...

318 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:10:14pm
319 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:10:29pm

re: #307 Iron Fist

It's cheaper than aborting them, but then you don't get to employ as many people. Think, man, think! We are the Ones We've Been Waiting For!

/

320 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:10:44pm

re: #294 Optimizer

Well said. I'm going to take a hit on this, here goes. Perhaps if schools were less enthusiastic about the sex lives of children and concentrated on teaching science, we may end up with a win win situation.

321 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:10:54pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

Oops, I did not delete the incorrect word (climate).

The encyclopedia said "climactic"

322 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:03pm

re: #312 Occasional Reader

re: #304 redstateredneckThe ones here were built in the middle ages.

Yeah, the North American Indians (north of Mexico) were a little behind the times. Pyramids were SO out of style by the time they got around to them... talk about wearing white after Labor Day, etc.

The Incas OTOH did build some extremely cool stuff, mind you... but AFAIK, they weren't into pyramids.

What about sacrificing virgins...did they do that?

323 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:04pm

re: #306 Ojoe

re: #96 FurryOldGuyJeans

These quotes are from the Brittanica article on "Climatic climate Change" (1980 edition, before the current brou-ha-ha).

"In the last 600,000,000 years, the Earth's climate, on a planetary scale, generally has been much warmer than it is today. At such times there are no ice caps near the poles, and there are no glaciers on even the highest mountain ranges. Instead, temperate conditions prevail beyond the Arctic Circle. This picture of a relatively warm, ice-free planet, applies for perhaps 95 percent of the geological past."

We are trying to preserve an anomaly.

Silly, the Earth is only 5,000 years old at the most.

324 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:24pm

I wonder if Obama the Wonderful could convince Islamic countries to allow legal abortion?
Right now individuals in most of Islam only have an abortion if they are very rich and can travel.
But so many children are born of parents who seem all too willing to turn them into dead babies after getting to know them a few years.
How many human shield children are put out there by willing parents who want a smaller family and to earn brownie points with their leaders?
Obama's got his work cut out for him.
I'd like to see how he pulls this off.
God knows nothing President Bush did made abortion more rare here.

325 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:28pm

re: #274 Iron Fist

Yes, you are correct there, but what makes you think Obama won't lean on Israel to make the Mohammedans happy? That it hurts America's interests? Not to put too fine a point on it, but so will pulling out of Iraq, and Obama ran on that for the better part of two years.

We're still not real clear on what he will really do in Iraq now.

I agree. For my part, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's funny about presidents and what happens after they start getting daily security briefings, military status updates, situation reports, NSA logs, CIA estimates, DIA appraisals, and all the rest. Some of their starry-eyed notions will be blasted out of the water on the first day (and Obama started receiving security info well before he took office). Naiveté and utopianism take a serious beating. At the very least, anyone getting the real-deal stuff for the first time is in for some surprises.

That changes the whole picture.

326 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:51pm

re: #312 Occasional Reader

The ones here were built in the middle ages.

Yeah, the North American Indians (north of Mexico) were a little behind the times. Pyramids were SO out of style by the time they got around to them... talk about wearing white after Labor Day, etc.

The Incas OTOH did build some extremely cool stuff, mind you... but AFAIK, they weren't into pyramids.

Weren't that into pyramids. They built 'em, but are better known for things like Machu Picchu.

327 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:11:51pm

re: #289 DeafDog

I personally do find any government intervention into basic research to be the real sticking point. When there is a specific goal the spin-off benefits can be numerous.

And the politics of science can be just as counter-productive, goal or not. AGW/ACC come to mind for that.

328 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:08pm

re: #311 Silhouette

That's spelled Al Gonquin.

/

Not on the site where the article was posted.....Jihad Watch.

329 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:09pm

re: #293 alegrias

Cokey DC Mayor Marion Barry fell asleep DURING one of his Mayoral Arts Awards Galas, back in the day.


"The b*tch zonked me out."

330 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:16pm
331 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:29pm

re: #318 Iron Fist

I'm convinced Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger just to keep his family supplied with hootch.


Was that a slam on the Irish?

332 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:32pm

re: #262 MandyManners

re: #237 DeafDog


re: #174 MandyManners



As others have noted above and previously, scientific research is cumulative and continues even after failure because failure brings knowledge. And, successful scientific processes can bring benefits to a whole host of other areas. How many NASA discoveries are used in every day life?

All true points.

However, please also consider that when NASA discovery (or any federal funded discovery) becomes a mass market product, the benefits of that discovery are distributed unequally. The benefits go to the Corp that licences the discovery mainly. The community where that Corp exists secondarily, and then to folks like Joe Six-pack only in an esoteric sense. So I'm reticent to ask Joe Six-pack to pay for it.

One can just as well ask, how many J&J discoveries are used in every day life? Since there are many, should Joe Six-pack have to pay for those, too?

333 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:33pm

re: #320 vagabond trader

But first you have to have teachers who know science, and student who want to learn science. And families who buy science experiment stuff and support it at home.

You're asking too much. You're asking for a scientific culture, dammit. I am going back to watching TV.

Next you'll be wanting children to learn how to read music.

Is there no end to your madness?

334 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:39pm

re: #309 Nevergiveup

Housekeeper and Taxes Are Said to Derail Kennedy’s Bid

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Maybe if these rich elite snobs cleaned their own houses and took care of their own kids, they wouldn't get into this trouble?

* * *
No es possible! Caroline's written a book about the Constitution, and she's a Harvard trained lawyer. Surely her PERSONAL ASSISTANT could have vetted the domestic help's papers.

Oh--remember in progressive sanctuary cities & states & social circles, ID cards are not necessary nor checked.

335 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:12:58pm

Here's where the money is going:

Stimulus bill doesn't ignore R&D

[Link: www.sciencenews.org...]

336 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:13:15pm

re: #300 davesax

Occam:

That's fine, but I'm still with Charles on this.

I think this is basically good news.

The news is good; the implementation may be the deal breaker, though.

337 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:13:44pm

re: #321 Ojoe

re: #315 Occasional Reader

Oops, I did not delete the incorrect word (climate).

The encyclopedia said "climactic"

"Climatic" refers to climate, "climactic" to climax.

338 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:13:57pm

re: #109 faraway

My 3000th post. I accept this award and I want to thank everyone I’ve ever met in my entire life. This makes up for the lizard strip search.

WHAT?!? You got strip searched? I never got strip searched! What a rip off. I want my initiation fees back.
/:grumblegrumble:

339 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:10pm

re: #325 Cato the Elder

I agree. For my part, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's funny about presidents and what happens after they start getting daily security briefings, military status updates, situation reports, NSA logs, CIA estimates, DIA appraisals, and all the rest. Some of their starry-eyed notions will be blasted out of the water on the first day (and Obama started receiving security info well before he took office). Naiveté and utopianism take a serious beating. At the very least, anyone getting the real-deal stuff for the first time is in for some surprises.

That changes the whole picture.

And with his intelligence chief wanting to share intelligence with the Iranians and Mitchell wanting to play Kumbaya with the Palestinians, it ain't exactly an auspicious start!

340 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:15pm

re: #309 Nevergiveup

Housekeeper and Taxes Are Said to Derail Kennedy’s Bid

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Maybe if these rich elite snobs cleaned their own houses and took care of their own kids, they wouldn't get into this trouble?

Thats not really fair. I know a number of two-parent families that work their asses off to provide for their families and can only do so because they have a nanny or other care-giver. The difference is that the people I know pay their taxes.

341 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:24pm
342 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:26pm

re: #331 redstateredneck

Was that a slam on the Irish?

You mean Joe Kennedy?

343 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:27pm

re: #309 Nevergiveup

The burdens of being rich, soooo dreary having to pay taxes for the hired help.

Seriously, you'd think these pampered fools would have staff to monitor the day to day.

344 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #326 lawhawk

Machu Picchu.

This is what the Incas said when playing poker.

Means "See you raise you".

(Weekly World News).

345 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:14:47pm

Sadly, most Americans don't take the time to dissect this like we have here.

From this hoopla, they'll come away with a overly simplified and completely incorrect impression: Obama = More Science.

Since Science = Good (unarguable), then Obama is More Good (sic).

346 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:02pm

Actually, #311, it was [Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

They spelled it as one word:
Algonquin
The book claimed that Muslims from Europe were the first to sail across the Atlantic and land in the New World, starting in 889.
Sure.

347 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:22pm
348 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:36pm

re: #340 Creeping Eruption

Thats not really fair. I know a number of two-parent families that work their asses off to provide for their families and can only do so because they have a nanny or other care-giver. The difference is that the people I know pay their taxes.

Your right but I wasn't talking about those people.

349 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:38pm

Anybody know exactly what scientific facts Bush & Co is actually accused of "systematically distorting"? All I remember is his refusal to fund certain aspects of stem cell research, on religious grounds. You might call that "screwy" (depending on how far-out you are, religiously), but it wasn't "distortion" of any "facts".

On "climate change", Bush never came out denouncing it, and seemed to play along with popular sentiment about it. I don't remember him even taking a formal stance on it. When the polar bear was being pronounced "threatened", despite existing in record numbers, due to a predicted effect due to predicted melting of the Arctic ice cap (by unvalidated computer models with an abysmal track record), Bush & Co did nothing to stop it, when all it took was the stroke of a pen.

The Moonbats like to harp on about Bush having been an oilman, but I don't remember Bush really doing anything special to help out oil companies.

I smell a scorching case of BDS.

350 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:44pm

re: #325 Cato the Elder

I agree. For my part, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's funny about presidents and what happens after they start getting daily security briefings, military status updates, situation reports, NSA logs, CIA estimates, DIA appraisals, and all the rest. Some of their starry-eyed notions will be blasted out of the water on the first day (and Obama started receiving security info well before he took office). Naiveté and utopianism take a serious beating. At the very least, anyone getting the real-deal stuff for the first time is in for some surprises.

That changes the whole picture.

Well, the pronouncements from the White House haven't exactly given me hope that those briefings have changed 0bama's mind.

351 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:15:58pm

re: #330 buzzsawmonkey

You rube! An Arts Commissar is a magnificent propaganda tool. Think of all the agitObama artwork there is to make! There's a whole new WPA era on the shining horizon, and the money will trickle down the mountain in ever-flowing streams! It's Shangri-La, baby! All you need is some silkscreen and an old Che poster for reference, and you are made!

352 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:03pm

NYT: Tax Dodger?

It's a tax avoidance strategy actually - to take advantage of existing tax loopholes so that the NYT Co can bolster its bottom line, which is running just this side of bankrupt.

353 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:14pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

Ta da!

you are write.

354 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:15pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

How can you deny the obvious? The name Al-Ghonqin is proof positive of the Muslim connection!

///////////////

Caliph-fornia?

355 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:35pm

re: #346 mean Gene

Actually, #311, it was [Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

They spelled it as one word:
Algonquin
The book claimed that Muslims from Europe were the first to sail across the Atlantic and land in the New World, starting in 889.
Sure.

Certainly explains the striking similarities with Indian religions and Islam.
////

356 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:51pm

re: #306 Ojoe

I remember the "Global Cooling" hysteria in the 70's. We were about to freeze to death in a few years if we didn't make the planet warmer if you were to swallow all the hype.

357 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:16:55pm

re: #347 Iron Fist

I certainly hope you are right. I hope Obama now knows what is really going on, and has a more realistic view of who our enemies are. He certainly has access to all the information. Whatever else you may say about Bush, he was exemplary in trying to maintain an orderly transfer of power to Obama.

I still expect them to blame every bad thing that happens for at least the next four years on Bush, though. Maybe they'll surprise me.

The way they are giving Bush the back hand in every thing they say, their off to one hell of a start.

358 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:00pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

How can you deny the obvious? The name Al-Ghonqin is proof positive of the Muslim connection!

///////////////

That's what they said about the name: California, too.
They spelled it Caliph-ornia however.

359 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:10pm

re: #355 jwb7605

Certainly explains the striking similarities with Indian religions and Islam.
////

And the common language.

360 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:22pm

re: #326 lawhawk

re: #312 Occasional Reader


Weren't that into pyramids. They built 'em,

See my post above with regard to that very same link. I believe the link is misidentifying those pyramids as "Inca". The one in the photo, situated in Lima (not far from where I used to live), was already there when the Incas arrived on the coast of Peru, from the mountains. See here (in Spanish, sorry).

361 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:26pm

re: #356 FurryOldGuyJeans

I remember the "Global Cooling" hysteria in the 70's. We were about to freeze to death in a few years if we didn't make the planet warmer if you were to swallow all the hype.

And we succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, so they're still pissed.

362 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:29pm

re: #348 Nevergiveup

Your right but I wasn't talking about those people.

Ok. I just hate when people bandy about stuff like "rich snobs" as if it is now somehow unpatriotic to to work hard and become wealthy.

363 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:34pm
364 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:35pm

re: #356 FurryOldGuyJeans

We must have done the right thing.

365 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:43pm

re: #333 godfrey

Hell, I'd be impressed if teachers taught reading at all.

366 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:17:47pm

re: #351 godfrey

You rube! An Arts Commissar is a magnificent propaganda tool. Think of all the agitObama artwork there is to make! There's a whole new WPA era on the shining horizon, and the money will trickle down the mountain in ever-flowing streams! It's Shangri-La, baby! All you need is some silkscreen and an old Che poster for reference, and you are made!

Don't forget statues of Stalin and pictures of Mussolini.

367 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:18:27pm

re: #303 mean Gene

I felt that, too.
At first I thought, why am I swaying if I'm not dizzy? then I realized it was a small quake.

you must be closer..... all i got was one real quick small jolt.

368 Kenneth  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:06pm

Very disturbing story linked by Ben Hur above:

Genocide henchman leads US-muslim outreach to Obama

The Muslim Brotherhood has decided now is the time to work their way into the corridors of power in Washington.

This needs a headline thread, IMO.

369 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:10pm

re: #366 Kosh's Shadow

Don't forget statues of Stalin and pictures of Mussolini.

I've always thought this country needed a good, solid, 800 foot high statue in concrete and steel of your truly shaving in the morning. Helps to humanize me to the masses, dontcha know?

370 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:24pm

re: #346 mean Gene

Did you see my sarcasm tag? It was a joke, changing the indian word Algonquin to sound arabic, Al Gonquin.

BTW, I'm 1/1024th Algonquin!

371 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:27pm
372 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:27pm

re: #367 redc1c4

you must be closer..... all i got was one real quick small jolt.

No.....you must be closer!
All I got was a small roll.
Think sushi!

373 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:38pm

re: #278 reloadingisnotahobby

I do believe the FDA needs a swift kick in the ass!
We can get treatment for my wifes daughter
for M.S.....In Mexico!
At 5000.00 a pop!
Sheep stem cell research/therapy needs to be allowed HERE!
My 2 cents!
Carry on!

In defense of the FDA....

The FDA is one of the better federal agencies, IMO. They do a good job - not perfect but good - in making sure that junk cures are not sold to the public and that the medicines 'do no harm.'

Allowing a medicine or treatment that turned out to be fatal or to have bad side effects could be worse than allowing medicines via a trunkated approval process.

374 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:39pm

re: #365 vagabond trader

Oh, they do. "Reading Recovery" is a program I've heard that produces excellent results. I've known some of those teachers, and they are great. It's mission territory in those places. Illiteracy and jail time are directly and positively correlated, particularly as the kids get older. Very strong predictor. Teach those kids to read, and you make a big difference.

375 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:19:45pm

it is so wrong that politics and money has crept so much, into the once sacred realm of science.
how many scientists are altering their findings to fit in w/ the prevailing beliefs of the moment?
now a scientist is hampered from even questioning gb warming.
because of the investment the gov't has in its existence.
not to mention that it has become a cherished belief of so much of society.
i bet some good scientists are having ethical and moral dilemmas now.
and not just abt. stem cell research.
so much earth science and biology can not be examined at this point w/ out the compulsory overlay of gb warming (which should be abt. facts not sentiment.)
i seldom see a nature show ie. african animals, polar bears, snakes in the amazon, when gb. warming does not set the tone.
i hate the intrusion. i feel that it is pc. mumbo jumbo holding science hostage.
not good.
i;m thinking the scientists who are misty eyed abt. the O, probably have lost the ability for rational logical thought. liberalism is a dangerous ideology.
it is corrupting a lot of things today.

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:20:00pm

re: #345 Silhouette

Since Science = Good (unarguable), then Obama is More Good (sic).

VERY arguable, or else, to name one example, why the hysteria about nuclear energy, nuclear weapons, and the Manhattan Project from Leftoids?

377 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:20:01pm

re: #356 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #306 Ojoe

I remember the "Global Cooling" hysteria in the 70's. We were about to freeze to death in a few years if we didn't make the planet warmer if you were to swallow all the hype.

I read/skimmed a fairly entertaining sci fi book from around 1979 -80 about the arrival of the (imminent, of course) next ice age. It was called The Sixth Winter or something like that. We wind up having to cooperate with the Soviets to fight packs of timber wolves, who tend to hunt the occupants of APCs as they would a mastodon. Stuff like that.

378 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:20:04pm

re: #338 Slumbering Behemoth

WHAT?!? You got strip searched? I never got strip searched! What a rip off. I want my initiation fees back.
/:grumblegrumble:

we'll send hC*gnit* over to do one retroactively, ok?

379 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:20:27pm
380 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:20:53pm

re: #368 Kenneth

Very disturbing story linked by Ben Hur above:

Genocide henchman leads US-muslim outreach to Obama

The Muslim Brotherhood has decided now is the time to work their way into the corridors of power in Washington.

This needs a headline thread, IMO.


Hey, are you gonna stay mad forever over a little thing like a genocide?

381 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:00pm

re: #371 Iron Fist

Not particularly. It is a pretty well known fact that all the Kennedys are alcoholics. At least all the Kennedys that aren't drug addicts are alcoholics. Some of them, like what's his name, Patrick? Anyway, some of them manage to do both.

You may think that I have very little use for the Kennedy clan. You would be correct in that. the notion that the Kennedys are somehow "American Royalty" offends me to my core. We don't need any royalty in this country. If they want to be dukes and kings and shit they can go back to Europe.

There used to be a sketch WBCN would play, of Teddy showing someone around the Kennedy house. (Get your Kennedy dialect translator ready)
"And this room is a bah. This room is... another bah.
etc.

382 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:11pm

Even if the slander of Bush inherent in this quoted piece were right--and it ain't--it's still absurd.
Few of the problems we face, and none of the urgent ones, are going to be solved by a novel application of technology.
I love science, and the bounds of civilization it expands and in turn expand it. But we won't stop international terrorism with new technology--especially since we won't be allowed to use the techonology we have, like computerized wire-taping. We won't stop nations like Iran from developing atomic weapons--especially since we place all of our technology to do so within the bounds of diplomacy that empowers the dictators. We won't make people less rapacious, more accountable, or even wiser with any new technology, and new scientist will develop the perfect economic analysis. We won't improve schools with better technology or more funding; that's been tried and tried and results have tended to follow the downward trends of responsibility and work-ethic, rather than the upward (even during Bush years!) trends of technology and funding. It won't even help us solve our engery needs, if only perfection is allowed, as everything comes with a trade-off, and even such bargains as Nuclear power are ignored and demonized by the reality based community.

The fetishizing of science as being what will solve all our problems is a very "progressive"--that is, naive--sentiment.

383 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:26pm

re: #361 jwb7605

And we succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, so they're still pissed.

I dispute the meme WE succeeded. WE had nothing to do with the trend. The sun was the reason, not people.

384 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:30pm

re: #379 buzzsawmonkey

lol

Let's all retire to a nice spot and play 78's all day. I love that stuff.

385 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:33pm

re: #362 Creeping Eruption

Ok. I just hate when people bandy about stuff like "rich snobs" as if it is now somehow unpatriotic to to work hard and become wealthy.

I don't think Caroline Kennedy working 4-5 hours a week is all that brutal. My remark was pointed more at the members of the "Golden Sperm Club".

386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:43pm

re: #330 buzzsawmonkey

Our local professional theatre closed this week. Been around for 60 years.

387 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:21:46pm

re: #370 Silhouette

re: #346 mean Gene

Did you see my sarcasm tag? It was a joke, changing the indian word Algonquin to sound arabic, Al Gonquin.

BTW, I'm 1/1024th Algonquin!

Open a casino!

388 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:22:16pm

re: #355 jwb7605

Certainly explains the striking similarities with Indian religions and Islam.
////

Like, the Mayan religion which cut the beating hearts out of living, screaming human beings?

389 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:22:44pm

re: #371 Iron Fist

If they want to be dukes and kings and shit they can go back to Europe.

I *do* hope you make an exception for The Duke.

390 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:22:50pm

re: #370 Silhouette

Did you see my sarcasm tag? It was a joke, changing the indian word Algonquin to sound arabic, Al Gonquin.

BTW, I'm 1/1024th Algonquin!

I saw it too late.
Congrats on that.
I lost most relatives in WWII to the Nazi's.
So I only ''know'' what I am by the few who survived, Russian, Mongolian, Romanian.
Hubby is 1/2 mixed British Isles and 1/4 black and 1/4 whatever Indian lived in Missouri about 90 years ago.
(His mom's ''shame" at her background meant he was never told.....that was a long time ago!)

391 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:22:52pm

re: #388 Alouette

Like, the Mayan religion which cut the beating hearts out of living, screaming human beings?

Some take hearts and some take heads; its a denominational difference.

392 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:22:54pm

re: #385 Nevergiveup

I don't think Caroline Kennedy working 4-5 hours a week is all that brutal. My remark was pointed more at the members of the "Golden Sperm Club".

Yeah, but she's a Kennedy. Do they work?

393 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:21pm

re: #362 Creeping Eruption

re: #348 Nevergiveup


Ok. I just hate when people bandy about stuff like "rich snobs" as if it is now somehow unpatriotic to to work hard and become wealthy.

* * *
You have a good point. No reason to use the left's "class warfare" terminology against people who work hard & creatively (and LEGALLY) to become wealthy.

Let us encourage people to work hard & succeed beyond their wildest dreams.

Kleptocrats, narcos, bootleggers, scam artists and other scum with unearned riches are a different story.

394 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #379 buzzsawmonkey

--chorus of "WPA," by Louis Armstrong and the Mills Brothers

I thought it was by The Village People?

395 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #388 Alouette

Like, the Mayan religion which cut the beating hearts out of living, screaming human beings?

Leftards (like Neil Young, look up his "Cortez the Killer" song) think that those victims willingly and happily went to their sacrifices.
I don't think so.

396 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: #382 nikis-knight

This is nothing but a thinly disguised attack on Bush, just as you point out.

397 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:34pm

re: #371 Iron Fist

Not particularly. It is a pretty well known fact that all the Kennedys are alcoholics. At least all the Kennedys that aren't drug addicts are alcoholics. Some of them, like what's his name, Patrick? Anyway, some of them manage to do both.

Heh. Whenever I see the commercial for Ambien that warns that instances of driving while asleep may occur, I say "especially if your last name is 'Kennedy'."

398 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:43pm
399 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:23:46pm

How are the Cherokee doing these days?

400 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:24:00pm

re: #393 alegrias

* * *
You have a good point. No reason to use the left's "class warfare" terminology against people who work hard & creatively (and LEGALLY) to become wealthy.

Let us encourage people to work hard & succeed beyond their wildest dreams.

Kleptocrats, narcos, bootleggers, scam artists and other scum with unearned riches are a different story.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

401 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #349 Optimizer

Well, the IG concluded that the NASA PAO did indeed try to muzzle or affect climate research announcements.

402 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:24:58pm

By the way, McCain also supported increasing funding for embryonic stem cell research.. The country was simply waiting for Bush to leave. This was inevitable.

403 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:25:20pm

re: #374 godfrey

You should check out the stats from Chicago, home of our potus and his Sec of Education. Dismal.

404 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:25:33pm

re: #376 FurryOldGuyJeans

VERY arguable, or else, to name one example, why the hysteria about nuclear energy, nuclear weapons, and the Manhattan Project from Leftoids?

Point.

405 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:25:41pm

re: #330 buzzsawmonkey

I just received, via a client, a copy of a petition being circulated to establish a Cabinet position for a "Secretary of the Arts."

What a lousy idea. The arts are flourishing in this country, and there is already too much public money going to fund meretricious tripe. We do not need a Secretary Commissar of the Arts.

I've heard, for years, artists complaining that public money is not going for "cutting edge" work. Any self-styled avant garde that must depend on government largesse to survive is by definition a joke.

I got the same thing from my sister. Aside from a general aversion to internet petitions (no one really pays attention to them, because they all know how mindlessly easy it is to click a button in a web browser; if you want to make an impact, you have to phone or write a real letter), I think it's a bad idea too. What the hell does "cutting-edge" mean anymore? Everything's been done, and whatever hasn't been done probably shouldn't be.

If there is a market for Karen Finley and Andres Serrano, good for them. I can take the existence of stupid, gratuitous filth-as-art without exploding like a Muslim. Don't ask me to pay for it, though.

406 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:26:13pm

re: #322 redstateredneck

re: #312 Occasional Reader


re: #304 redstateredneckThe ones here were built in the middle ages.

Yeah, the North American Indians (north of Mexico) were a little behind the times. Pyramids were SO out of style by the time they got around to them... talk about wearing white after Labor Day, etc.

The Incas OTOH did build some extremely cool stuff, mind you... but AFAIK, they weren't into pyramids.


What about sacrificing virgins...did they do that?

Yep.

407 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:26:21pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

re: #93 DeafDog

R&D is not limited to science. Those figures also include new packaging for soda, a new 2 pound cheese burger for McDonalds, new fluorescent colouring for snack chips, etc.

eh. That's science, and could have other useful applications (unless the money is in marketing those things, which I don't think you mean). I think you should say instead, "Science is not limited to breath-taking new discoveries, but also small inventions that make our world slightly more efficient."
(Which isn't to say small things should monopolize money, just that they aren't irrelevant, I suspect.)

408 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:26:29pm

re: #376 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #345 Silhouette


VERY arguable, or else, to name one example, why the hysteria about nuclear energy, nuclear weapons, and the Manhattan Project from Leftoids?

* * *
Because in the USA these weapons were used AGAINST totalitarians & tyrants.

409 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:26:36pm

re: #398 Iron Fist

I expect that Barack Hussein will welcome them with open arms. Or coffers, or maybe the East Coast. We owe a lot of back-jizya, and Obama's the guy to pay it out. Billions for tribute but not one dime for defense!

(Oh, wait...)

Is that what Robert Reich meant when he said that bailouot money should not go to white men?
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

410 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:26:49pm
411 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #383 FurryOldGuyJeans

I dispute the meme WE succeeded. WE had nothing to do with the trend. The sun was the reason, not people.

Nah. It was us. I read that. Al Gore even did a movie.
Reagan was the guy that had the super-secret program to heat up the sun.
It worked, but that was back when government wasn't transparent.
GW picked up the program, and used the space program as plausible deniablity.
The whole secret is in Texas, now. Karl Rove knows.

412 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:10pm

re: #388 Alouette

re: #355 jwb7605


Like, the Mayan religion which cut the beating hearts out of living, screaming human beings?


They invented open heart surgery, centuries before the wicked white people did!

/

413 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:11pm
414 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:28pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

Larry Nivien and Jerry Pournell have a book out with that premis. It's pretty damning of political correctness and liberalism. It's called Fallen Angels. It's a decent read.

Those two write good books alone or together.
I'll check it out, too.

415 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:48pm

re: #368 Kenneth

Ya don't say? Hold onto your hat, more to come.

416 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:27:51pm

OT
Caroline Kennedy withdraws her name for consideration for Senate Seat, citing "personal" reasons.

"Personally, I didn't know a Senator, like had to work that much and sometimes know things!"

417 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:28:28pm

re: #313 bulwrk

re: #294 Optimizer

I'm no expert, but I really can't imagine what kind of "mess" someone must think we are in to suggest this as a partial solution.


It makes perfect sense if you are of the mindset that humans are destroying the planet and that there are too many of us here already.

I had thought of bringing up about VHEMT ([Link: www.vhemt.org...] the quintessential example of what you're talking about), but I didn't want to get myself sidetracked right off. You are, of course, exactly correct, but I think what we're seeing here is scientists exposing themselves as the partisans they are by venting about unrelated political issues - while claiming that they are really defending science. It's pathetic, but people are taught to believe these guys in school (in much the same way people are taught to believe their clergy in church), and so they can say this stuff that's obviously flawed - without question.

418 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:28:31pm

/damn, that Francesco Cafiso can play

419 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #401 freetoken

Well, the IG concluded that the NASA PAO did indeed try to muzzle or affect climate research announcements.

You have a link for that? I would like to see if the influence was for or against AGW/ACC.

420 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:28:55pm

re: #412 Occasional Reader

re: #388 Alouette


re: #355 jwb7605


Like, the Mayan religion which cut the beating hearts out of living, screaming human beings?


They invented open heart surgery buffetts, centuries before the wicked white people did!

/

421 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:28:56pm

re: #416 sattv4u2

OT
Caroline Kennedy withdraws her name for consideration for Senate Seat, citing "personal" reasons.

"Personally, I didn't know a Senator, like had to work that much and sometimes know things!"

She did not say that! There weren't enough "uhs" & "y'knows"!

422 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:29:11pm

re: #416 sattv4u2

OT
Caroline Kennedy withdraws her name for consideration for Senate Seat, citing "personal" reasons.

"Personally, I didn't know a Senator, like had to work that much and sometimes know things!"


She must have based her opinion on watching her uncle...

423 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:29:17pm

Day One: Obama Bans Lobbyists from Serving in His Administration. Day Two: Obama Issues First Exemption from His Ban
—Dave In Texas

[Link: ace.mu.nu...]

424 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:29:18pm

re: #402 Killgore Trout

It seems that there is wide support in this country for that kind of research. Given some of the key benefits would be important health improving or life saving techniques, no wonder.

I can sympathize with GWB's desire to not see human embryos harvested for stem cells, but there is no doubt that stem cell research is a hot button in and outside of science.

425 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:29:37pm

re: #327 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #289 DeafDog

I personally do find any government intervention into basic research to be the real sticking point. When there is a specific goal the spin-off benefits can be numerous.

And the politics of science can be just as counter-productive, goal or not. AGW/ACC come to mind for that.

It is the sticking point, IMO, because the taxpayers have a right to know what there money is being spent on.

Even on things that are universally cool - mapping the humane genome, for example - there is still political question on where such research should be done. It's a big country. A taxpayer in California is going to feel differently about a UCLA reserch grant than a taxpayer in Maine.

426 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:29:58pm

re: #421 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

re: #416 sattv4u2


She did not say that! There weren't enough "uhs" & "y'knows"!

I edited them out for space/ time/ cramping fingers

427 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:22pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

re: #377 Occasional Reader

Larry Nivien and Jerry Pournell have a book out with that premis. It's pretty damning of political correctness and liberalism. It's called Fallen Angels. It's a decent read.

I remember that story. The government warning people to beware of the astronaut's super strength because the videos showing them move the giant fuel tanks in zero gravity.

428 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:29pm

re: #422 96RoadKing

re: #416 sattv4u2


She must have based her opinion on watching her uncle...

The one that's still got a pulse (clarification)

429 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:35pm

OT: CAT VS HELICOPTER

430 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:41pm

re: #378 redc1c4

Now I'm torn. Hmmm.... Would it be appropriate to tip for that kind of service?

431 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:42pm
432 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:47pm

re: #423 Nevergiveup

lol.

433 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:30:48pm

re: #386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Our local professional theatre closed this week. Been around for 60 years.

Who?

434 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:31:01pm

re: #390 mean Gene

Mongolian? Very nifty. The others are relatively common, but I don't think I've met many people of Mongolian extraction. From the Mongol invasion and occupation of Russia?

435 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:31:20pm

re: #427 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember that story. The government warning people to beware of the astronaut's super strength because the videos showing them move the giant fuel tanks in zero gravity.

What we really have to worry about are space ants.
But I for one welcome our new insect overlords...

436 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:31:54pm

re: #307 Iron Fist

re: #294 Optimizer

The Bush Administration never gave free condoms to kindergarteners. Obama will rectify this problem, and he'll probably only spend a hundred million dollars to fix things. The One will get the money to the teacher's union, and they'll take care of the rest.

But wouldn't that destroy jobs in the abortion industry (presuming the "lesson" sets in for when they're older)? /sarc

437 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:31:56pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

re: #377 Occasional Reader

Larry Nivien and Jerry Pournell have a book out with that premis. It's pretty damning of political correctness and liberalism. It's called Fallen Angels. It's a decent read.

"Fallen Angels"? Sounds more like Pr0nelle than Pournelle.

438 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:31:58pm

re: #411 jwb7605

I know you are in deep sarcasm mode, I just don't find it a whole lot of funny because there are so many people that truly believe some variant of "we are the cause" with just as much hard evidence as you presented.

439 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:10pm

re: #431 Iron Fist

re: #397 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm not much of one to talk. I almost totaled my car last march driving on one Ambien. Well, and half a case of beer. Oops... The Girlfriend was not even the least amused.

Why ,,was it her Ambien ,, or her beer !?!?!?! Cause you said it was YOUR car !

440 Occam's Beard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #375 nyc redneck

it is so wrong that politics and money has crept so much, into the once sacred realm of science.
how many scientists are altering their findings to fit in w/ the prevailing beliefs of the moment?

I wouldn't accuse anyone of altering their findings, which would be clearly unethical; if anything, it's more a case of self-censorship. Imagine that you'd found evidence (from, say, gene expression studies, i.e., not social science crap) suggesting that racial groups in fact differed genetically in intelligence. Would you be in a big hurry to publish that, or do you think you might want to let that baby mellow in a file cabinet for a while? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

441 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:27pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

re: #386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Our local professional theatre closed this week. Been around for 60 years.

Who?

No, that's a rock band.

442 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:31pm

re: #416 sattv4u2

OT
Caroline Kennedy withdraws her name for consideration for Senate Seat, citing "personal" reasons.

"Personally, I didn't know a Senator, like had to work that much and sometimes know things!"

Aw, c'mon, Caroline. Show some balls. After all, like the mouth-breathing creationist senator from Screwballia said in "Religulous", "There's no IQ test to be a US Senator."

443 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:31pm

re: #427 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #410 Iron Fist


re: #377 Occasional Reader

Larry Nivien and Jerry Pournell have a book out with that premis. It's pretty damning of political correctness and liberalism. It's called Fallen Angels. It's a decent read.


I remember that story. The government warning people to beware of the astronaut's super strength because the videos showing them move the giant fuel tanks in zero gravity.


Was that the one where the astronauts were stuck in the tundra, but were saved by microwave energy eminating from an orbiting ship? I've read most of their works, but after a decade, the story lines get a little muddled.

444 tankascribe  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:32:44pm

re: #388 Alouette

I believe the Mayans liked throwing people into cenotes (aka sinkholes); it was the Aztecs who cut the living hearts out of people. But it does make me think of Sacrifice.

445 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:33:13pm

re: #441 Occasional Reader

re: #433 Walter L. Newton


No, that's a rock band.

First baseman.

446 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:33:34pm

re: #167 Jetpilot1101

re: #133 sattv4u2


re: #110 Jetpilot1101


re: #100 lawhawk


Meanwhile, MSNBC wonders whether this is another Great Depression. Ummm.. when there's Dust Bowls, crushing poverty, 30% unemployment, and no safety net for the unemployed or the aged, come back to me with a comparison that actually makes sense historically. Otherwise, what you have is just flat out hysteria.


Actually, this time around it's worse and going to get a whole lot worse.

I'm praying you forgot the sarc tag! If not, please explain how "actually,,,,,,it's worse,,,"

Here's a few facts:
Total Federal Debt in 1933 - 360 Billion (2008 Dollars) 40% GDP
Total Federal Debt in 2008 - Just under 11 Trillion 70% GDP

Add to that approx 53 Trillion in unfunded mandates (social security, medicare etc.)

This translates into a 455,000 mortgage for every American household with nothing to back it up.

How are we going to pay for this when this country is based on consumerism as opposed to manufacturing as it was in 1933?

No country in their right mind is going to lend us money.

Summary, we're f---ed.

Email me if you would like my sources.

China expects to get something for it. Perhaps we'll have inflation to cut down the debt.

447 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:34:02pm
448 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:34:03pm

re: #442 Cato the Elder

re: #416 sattv4u2


Aw, c'mon, Caroline. Show some balls. After all, like the mouth-breathing creationist senator from Screwballia said in "Religulous", "There's no IQ test to be a US Senator."

Who do you think she is, Hillary !?!

449 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:34:08pm

Lubell said. “The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”

No Egghead, it will take fiscal responsibility, hard work and some Honest debate to put us back in Black again.

450 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:34:31pm

re: #441 Occasional Reader

re: #445 Silhouette

Who?

451 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:35:10pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

Yes.

452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:35:22pm

Has anyone seen Obama's latest campaign commercial about volunteerism? Where he lumps the Apollo 11 mission in with volunteers? NASA doesn't have volunteer astronauts, Barry!

453 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:35:24pm

re: #445 Silhouette

First baseman.

re: #445 Silhouette

First baseman.

Who's on first?

454 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:07pm

re: #402 Killgore Trout

By the way, McCain also supported increasing funding for embryonic stem cell research.. The country was simply waiting for Bush to leave. This was inevitable.

Yeah, and we all loved everything about McCain.

455 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:09pm

re: #453 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #445 Silhouette


Who's on first?


That's right!
And what's on second!

But who's on third?

456 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:12pm

re: #314 funky chicken

re: #294 Optimizer


It could help if they got the contraceptives to massively overpopulated places in Africa. Of course that isn't what they are talking about.

Well, it would help Africa, anyway. But that would decrease the number of "victims" to complain about, and it's "racist" to suggest controlling the birth rate of anybody who isn't white. Yes, it's definitely not what they're talking about.

457 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:14pm

re: #449 Maximu§

Lubell said. “The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.”

No Egghead, it will take fiscal responsibility, hard work and some Honest debate to put us back in Black fiscal situation of color again.

458 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:20pm

re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Has anyone seen Obama's latest campaign commercial about volunteerism? Where he lumps the Apollo 11 mission in with volunteers? NASA doesn't have volunteer astronauts, Barry!

Ummm, they are ALL volunteer.

459 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:29pm

In the Wall Street Journal a question I raised here:

The Zionist Organization of America has a question for President Obama, concerning the statement in his Inaugural Address that "we are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus--and nonbelievers":
What is the reason President Obama chose this sequence when listing these four religions?
Throughout its history, the United States has always been known as a nation based on Judeo-Christian values and heritage.
Moreover, surveys show that there are some 5-7 million Jews living in the United States. Most surveys show that there are 1.8-2.8 million Muslims living in the United States.
In contrast, in President George W. Bush's Inauguration Speech on January 20, 2001, he said the following, "Church and charity, synagogue and mosque, lend our communities their humanity, and they will have an honored place in our plans and laws."

Hmm, why did he choose that order? It couldn't have just been random, seeing as how Obama cares so much about words. Let's consider the possibilities:

He's not going by number of adherents, as the ZOA statement points out, since there are more Jews than Muslims in America (although curiously the group omits a count of American Hindus). Muslims vastly outnumber Jews world-wide, but then so do Hindus.

He's not going chronologically, the idea behind "Judeo-Christian" (though come to think of it, one imagines there were nonbelievers before there were Jews). And if he were trying to rhyme, he'd have done something like "Christians, Hindus / Muslims 'n' Jews."

When in doubt, alphabetize: That's the advice an editor gave us when we were young. But Obama doesn't seem to have followed it. "Jews" is ahead of "Muslims" in the alphabet; and while "Islam" does come before "Judaism," "Hinduism" precedes them both.

Wait, we've got it! He is going alphabetically--not by the name of the faith or what its adherents are called, but by the name of the central figure in each: Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Vishnu.

Oh yeah--and Zilch!

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

460 gmsc  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:38pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

re: #445 Silhouette

Who?

re: #451 Silhouette

Yes.

461 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:36:56pm

re: #458 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ummm, they are ALL volunteer.

They get paid though.

462 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:37:09pm
463 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:37:18pm

re: #455 96RoadKing

That's right!
And what's on second!

But who's on third?

Idontknow on third.

464 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:37:21pm

re: #434 Silhouette

Mongolian? Very nifty. The others are relatively common, but I don't think I've met many people of Mongolian extraction. From the Mongol invasion and occupation of Russia?

Exactly.
A great grandmother was ''raped'' when her area was over run.
Actually a lot of the young women were raped.
Great grandmother is one who had a baby, my grandmother.
She, (I never met) had Oriental eyes with the folds and was very tiny.
She married my grandfather and converted to Judaism before WWII just in time to be persecuted in Europe.
She fled to the USA with mom while her husband was rounded up.
No one saw him again.

465 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:37:26pm

re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Has anyone seen Obama's latest campaign commercial about volunteerism? Where he lumps the Apollo 11 mission in with volunteers? NASA doesn't have volunteer astronauts, Barry!

Hey, in his July 4th big speech about volunteerism (better known for the "domestic security force" kerfuffle), he lumped Foreign Service Officers in with "volunteers", and didn't get called on it. So, astronatus... why the hell not?

466 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:38:16pm

re: #458 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ummm, they are ALL volunteer.

But they do get paid.

467 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:38:23pm

re: #320 vagabond trader

re: #294 Optimizer

Well said. I'm going to take a hit on this, here goes. Perhaps if schools were less enthusiastic about the sex lives of children and concentrated on teaching science, we may end up with a win win situation.

Heretic! Racist! (Don't ask me how this is racist, but I'm sure somebody would invent something.)

/sarc

468 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:38:37pm

re: #457 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

re: #449 Maximu§

Ah, how Stupid of me.....we can't use the word "Black" anymore I guess.

/

469 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:38:59pm

re: #465 Occasional Reader

Hey, in his July 4th big speech about volunteerism (better known for the "domestic security force" kerfuffle), he lumped Foreign Service Officers in with "volunteers", and didn't get called on it. So, astronatus... why the hell not?

Aww Hell! They're all sanctified now, and the healing touch of That One has made them all volunteers in his service. SO, now he's claiming credit for the Apollo program.

470 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:39:30pm

re: #443 96RoadKing

re: #427 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


re: #410 Iron Fist


re: #377 Occasional Reader

Larry Nivien and Jerry Pournell have a book out with that premis. It's pretty damning of political correctness and liberalism. It's called Fallen Angels. It's a decent read.


I remember that story. The government warning people to beware of the astronaut's super strength because the videos showing them move the giant fuel tanks in zero gravity.

Was that the one where the astronauts were stuck in the tundra, but were saved by microwave energy eminating from an orbiting ship? I've read most of their works, but after a decade, the story lines get a little muddled.

Nope. IIRC there was an fully contained space station operational in orbit when the government got taken over by uber-libs and declared it to be shutdown and decommisioned. The crew mutinied and declared independence and operated as their own state, being a major embarassment since the government no longer had a space program to go after them. The main story takes place several years later when 2 astronauts crash land and are on the run trying to get back into orbit.

471 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:39:35pm

re: #461 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

They get paid though.

Doesn't mean they didn't volunteer to be astronauts. You could say we do not have an all volunteer military simply because they are paid.

472 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:39:40pm

re: #446 debutaunt


China expects to get something for it. Perhaps we'll have inflation to cut down the debt.

* * * *
Perhaps China can cut the toxins out of their products!
Who wants to buy their
Toxic baby milk, toxic pet foods, toxic toys?

Sorry, China ruined their reputation as safe manufacturers.

473 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:39:53pm

re: #419 FurryOldGuyJeans

The story was reported and linked extensively throughout the web. Eg. here and hereg (both require subscriptions, in the NYT case free). Here is an article that is out in the open:
[Link: www.chron.com...]

474 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:40:04pm

re: #463 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #455 96RoadKing


Idontknow on third.


Don't forget Idon'tgiveadarn!

475 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:40:07pm

By the way, was anything posted today about Obama's economic something or other, who testified that the stimulus money for building infrastructure shouldn't go to highly skilled professionals or white construction workers, but rather minorities and long-term unemployed?

As if the infrastructure worth building is no more involved than digging holes or something.

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:40:23pm

re: #413 buzzsawmonkey

Wasn't saying that in support of a Arts Czar. Was just saying that the Arts are hurting. But I have always believed that if you do not have enough local support for the arts, or for a professional sports team, you need neither.

I am theatre fan too.

477 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:40:23pm

re: #320 vagabond trader

re: #294 Optimizer

Well said. I'm going to take a hit on this, here goes. Perhaps if schools were less enthusiastic about the sex lives of children and concentrated on teaching science, we may end up with a win win situation.

Careful VT, your gonna land us all in a workcamp.

478 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:40:47pm

"Staff members throughout the government’s scientific agencies nation's DOT-com startups held inaugural parties on Tuesday marketing strategy sessions during the Ninties, and many reported being teary-eyed with joy."

Not the same?

Perhaps in certain respects.

Just sayin', hang onto your wallets.

479 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:41:00pm

re: #314 funky chicken

re: #294 Optimizer


It could help if they got the contraceptives to massively overpopulated places in Africa. Of course that isn't what they are talking about.

As a general observation: "Overpopulation" is generally a euphemism for "poverty".

Nobody complains about Monaco being "overpopulated", despite its being the most densely populated country in the world.

480 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:41:27pm

re: #466 Silhouette

But they do get paid.

Being paid is not a defining definition of being a volunteer. By that logic the US military is a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.

481 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:41:41pm

re: #458 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Ummm, they are ALL volunteer.

Anyone can volunteer, doesnt mean they are qualified. Hell, if they took anyone they might get some nutcases driving cross country wearing diapers.

Oh wait.

482 96RoadKing  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:41:52pm

re: #470 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think I'll have to pull it out of the library and re-read it. Right after I finish Extreme Measures.

483 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:42:34pm

re: #481 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anyone can volunteer, doesnt mean they are qualified. Hell, if they took anyone they might get some nutcases driving cross country wearing diapers.

Oh wait.

I just think she was showing initiative?

484 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:42:42pm

re: #456 Optimizer

Actually abortion rates in the USA are disproportionately high within the African American community.Uncomfortable stats for the left.

485 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:43:04pm
486 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:43:25pm

re: #471 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #461 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Doesn't mean they didn't volunteer to be astronauts. You could say we do not have an all volunteer military simply because they are paid.

Um, okay, but we all know that's not the kind of "volunteerism" we're talking about (or Obama was talking about) in this context. Yes, since we don't have the draft or slavery, we're all "volunteers", in the very loosest sense of the word. But Obama is referring to voluntary unpaid labor. (Or maybe not-so-voluntary... he's a little unclear on that.)

487 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:43:27pm

re: #477 Maximu§

They gotta subdue me first.

488 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:43:29pm

re: #472 alegrias

re: #446 debutaunt


China expects to get something for it. Perhaps we'll have inflation to cut down the debt.

* * * *
Perhaps China can cut the toxins out of their products!
Who wants to buy their
Toxic baby milk, toxic pet foods, toxic toys?

Sorry, China ruined their reputation as safe manufacturers.

No sorry necessary. Manufacturing relies on reputation above all else. I do wonder what China will do with all the US debt.

489 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:43:44pm

re: #482 96RoadKing

re: #470 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think I'll have to pull it out of the library and re-read it. Right after I finish Extreme Measures.

Had an autographed copy floating around at my parents. One of my college professors knew Pournelle and got me signed copies of the Dream Park series, Legacy of Heorat and Fallen Angels.

490 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:44:23pm

re: #484 vagabond trader

re: #456 Optimizer

Actually abortion rates in the USA are disproportionately high within the African American community.Uncomfortable stats for the left.

But quite in keeping with the racial eugenics roots of "Planned Parenthood". Now THERE'S an "inconvenient truth"!

491 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:44:44pm

re: #453 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #445 Silhouette


Who's on first?


The Guess Who.

492 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:44:45pm

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't saying that in support of a Arts Czar. Was just saying that the Arts are hurting. But I have always believed that if you do not have enough local support for the arts, or for a professional sports team, you need neither.

I am theatre fan too.

I asked you above, which theatre closed? Come on, I really want to know WHO.

493 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:44:49pm

re: #481 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anyone can volunteer, doesnt mean they are qualified. Hell, if they took anyone they might get some nutcases driving cross country wearing diapers.

Oh wait.

The military does the same, takes its pick of applicants. Being a volunteer does not automatically mean doing something for free. You might as well call the US military a mob of mercenaries if you want to apply the logic of volunteer = unpaid.

494 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:44:55pm

re: #335 scottishbuzzsaw

Here's where the money is going:

Stimulus bill doesn't ignore R&D

[Link: www.sciencenews.org...]

I love it when somebody inserts some facts into the middle of a thread.

495 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #475 nikis-knight

By the way, was anything posted today about Obama's economic something or other, who testified that the stimulus money for building infrastructure shouldn't go to highly skilled professionals or white construction workers, but rather minorities and long-term unemployed?

As if the infrastructure worth building is no more involved than digging holes or something.

* * *
Joe the Plumber discovered that plan to "spread the wealth" on his front lawn before the election!

496 ThinkRight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:45:30pm

re: #486 Occasional Reader

re: #471 FurryOldGuyJeans


re: #461 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Doesn't mean they didn't volunteer to be astronauts. You could say we do not have an all volunteer military simply because they are paid.


Um, okay, but we all know that's not the kind of "volunteerism" we're talking about (or Obama was talking about) in this context. Yes, since we don't have the draft or slavery, we're all "volunteers", in the very loosest sense of the word. But Obama is referring to voluntary unpaid labor. (Or maybe not-so-voluntary... he's a little unclear on that.)


We voluntarily pay our taxes also
/

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:45:45pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

I asked you above, which theatre closed? Come on, I really want to know WHO.

Sorry, didn't see your question. Mill Mountain Theatre, Roanoke, VA.

498 formercorpsman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:45:47pm

re: #459 opinionated

I did not want to be the one to bring this up, but it caught my ear when I heard it as well.

499 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:46:49pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


I asked you above, which theatre closed? Come on, I really want to know WHO.

I'll tell you: Tomorrow.

(sorry, it's a classic, just can't stop)

500 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:08pm

re: #481 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #458 FurryOldGuyJeans


re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Ummm, they are ALL volunteer.


Anyone can volunteer, doesnt mean they are qualified. Hell, if they took anyone they might get some nutcases driving cross country wearing diapers.

Oh wait.

* * *
Fraternizing in NASA is ok now that Bush is gone.

501 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:19pm

re: #493 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #481 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


The military does the same, takes its pick of applicants. Being a volunteer does not automatically mean doing something for free. You might as well call the US military a mob of mercenaries if you want to apply the logic of volunteer = unpaid.

Nah, I'll let the liberals keep that meme to themselves

502 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:42pm

re: #486 Occasional Reader

Then O and his cronies are once again trying to change the meaning of words to suit their own purposes. I won't stand for such crap.

503 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:48pm

I'm tempted to make a comment about scientist getting the freshest embryonic stem cells tax payers' money can buy, and live aborted babies.

504 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:49pm

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't saying that in support of a Arts Czar. Was just saying that the Arts are hurting. But I have always believed that if you do not have enough local support for the arts, or for a professional sports team, you need neither.

I am theatre fan too.

Hell, with Barry in now, maybe michelle can give us her take on the Yang Ban Xi (8 Model Works, the revolutionary opera of Madame Mao):



505 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:47:55pm

re: #401 freetoken

re: #349 Optimizer

Well, the IG concluded that the NASA PAO did indeed try to muzzle or affect climate research announcements.

I got as far as deciphering "IG = Inspector General", but who's the PAO?

Anyway, NASA's Hansen has been Gore's chief accomplice, and has been completely unfettered, so I have trouble imagining that whatever they might have been guilty of trying to do was very effective. Personally, I think Hansen should be fired for the way he has massaged data in pursuit of his cause.

506 Rancher  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:48:26pm

Line up for grant money, especially if you're going to advance current administration policies like global warming climate change. Scientists are drooling over higher government spending because the government has far less stringent requirements for results and relevance than the marketplace.

507 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:49:39pm

re: #485 Iron Fist

According to Kos, they are. Myself, I've never seen what was supposed to be so bad about mercenaries. Get paid for the job, and then do the job you are paid for.

Works for me.

You seem to have picked up what I was driving at....the Leftoid preoccupation of redefining words to suit their agenda. Thank you. :)

508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:49:40pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

I asked you above, which theatre closed? Come on, I really want to know WHO.

Really bummed about it. Attended many shows there over the years. Also, was the only time I was a professional actor. 18 years old, chorus, "Annie Get Your Gun".

At the time? I was a skinny bastard omnivore.

509 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:49:44pm

re: #479 Occasional Reader

re: #314 funky chicken


re: #294 Optimizer


It could help if they got the contraceptives to massively overpopulated places in Africa. Of course that isn't what they are talking about.


As a general observation: "Overpopulation" is generally a euphemism for "poverty".

Nobody complains about Monaco being "overpopulated", despite its being the most densely populated country in the world.

Yeah, the real problem is Africa isn't overpopulation, but underdevelopment caused by a lack of fair governance and frequent warfare.

510 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:50:45pm
511 Rancher  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:50:51pm

re: #488 debutaunt


No sorry necessary. Manufacturing relies on reputation above all else. I do wonder what China will do with all the US debt.

Bail us out, we're too big to fail.

512 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:51:04pm

re: #504 Guanxi88

Hell, with Barry in now, maybe michelle can give us her take on the Yang Ban Xi (8 Model Works, the revolutionary opera of Madame Mao):


[Video]

Trust me, you ain't seen gov't subsidized art till you've seen Yang Ban Xi.

513 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:51:46pm

re: #480 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being paid is not a defining definition of being a volunteer. By that logic the US military is a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.

No, you misunderstand me. No insult to anyone who earns a paycheck implied.

There is volunteer, as in "no body makes you," and volunteer, as in "nobody pays you." When you say you are doing "volunteer work" it is generally understood to be unpaid charity work.

Obama was talking about volunteerism, unpaid charity work, and lumped in paid professions.

And then there are Volunteers from Tennessee. ;-)

514 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:52:18pm

re: #496 ThinkRight

We voluntarily pay our taxes also
/

You might, I sure never did. Paying taxes, per se, I have no objection to, where the money goes I do have some reservations.

515 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:52:50pm
516 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:52:58pm

Wang Dang Doodle?

517 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:52:59pm

re: #512 Guanxi88

re: #504 Guanxi88


Trust me, you ain't seen gov't subsidized art till you've seen Yang Ban Xi.

* * *
Oh, Peter Sellars' "Nixon in China" was a tax-subsidized snoozer too in 1987 or 88.
How it got booked into the Kennedy Center with your tax dollars is such a mystery. NOT!

518 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:53:13pm

re: #502 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #486 Occasional Reader

Then O and his cronies are once again trying to change the meaning of words to suit their own purposes. I won't stand for such crap.

Huh? No, this was not something Obama came up with.

"Volunteer" means something different when applied to "volunteer versus conscripted armed forces", than when referring to "volunteer work in your local community". Always been that way.

519 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:53:51pm

re: #505 Optimizer

I got as far as deciphering "IG = Inspector General", but who's the PAO?

Anyway, NASA's Hansen has been Gore's chief accomplice, and has been completely unfettered, so I have trouble imagining that whatever they might have been guilty of trying to do was very effective. Personally, I think Hansen should be fired for the way he has massaged data in pursuit of his cause.

PAO = Public Affairs Office.
(Sounds like a place for Bill Clinton)

520 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:53:58pm

re: #479 Occasional Reader

As a general observation: "Overpopulation" is generally a euphemism for "poverty".

Nobody complains about Monaco being "overpopulated", despite its being the most densely populated country in the world.

Right you are. In fact, in the coming decades it's underpopulation they'll have to worry about in Europe, Russia and Japan. The US is an exception - our birthrate is more or less at replacement level. But even the New York Times recently ran a big article on the coming "age wave" and population decrease in the above areas, and openly acknowledged that by 2030 or so many large European cities will be majority Muslim.

Of course those who see nothing but evil in European history also see nothing wrong with its end.

521 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:55:18pm

re: #520 Cato the Elder

re: #479 Occasional Reader


Right you are. In fact, in the coming decades it's underpopulation they'll have to worry about in Europe, Russia and Japan. The US is an exception - our birthrate is more or less at replacement level. But even the New York Times recently ran a big article on the coming "age wave" and population decrease in the above areas, and openly acknowledged that by 2030 or so many large European cities will be majority Muslim.

Of course those who see nothing but evil in European history also see nothing wrong with its end.

Are the Spanish still campaigning for immigrants in South America?

522 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:55:19pm

re: #514 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #496 ThinkRight


You might, I sure never did. Paying taxes, per se, I have no objection to, where the money goes I do have some reservations.


Whenever I fill out the state unemployment return I chuckle at how they call it unemployment "insurance" and the tax is a "contribution". Can't fool me!

523 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:55:35pm

re: #513 Silhouette

No, you misunderstand me. No insult to anyone who earns a paycheck implied.

There is volunteer, as in "no body makes you," and volunteer, as in "nobody pays you." When you say you are doing "volunteer work" it is generally understood to be unpaid charity work.

Obama was talking about volunteerism, unpaid charity work, and lumped in paid professions.

And then there are Volunteers from Tennessee. ;-)

No, I don't misunderstand you, but I stick to simple definition of things and words. I refuse to let the Leftoids change what is meant to suit their agenda.

524 davesax  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:56:30pm

Buzzsawmonkey:

I love the Film Forum! Saw both Godfathers there a couple of months ago!

I wish they had better seating, though.

525 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:57:29pm

re: #497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry, didn't see your question. Mill Mountain Theatre, Roanoke, VA.

Thanks.

I just looked at there website, and I have a BIG problem with one thing. They are not going to refund any pre-sale tickets for future shows.

Big no-no. When they decided to shut down, that should have been job one on their list, honor or refund the pre-sold tickets.

That's the problem with a lot of arts organizations. When things are going fine, they act like a business, as soon as it goes south, hey, we're just artist, so sorry.

IMHO, bad move on their part.

526 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:57:40pm

re: #516 Ben Hur

Wang Dang Doodle?

No, Yang Ban Xi:

Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy

The Red Lantern:

The Red Detachment of Women:

The White-Haired Girl:

And other People's Favorites.

527 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:57:56pm

re: #521 OldLineTexan

re: #520 Cato the Elder


re: #479 Occasional Reader


Right you are. In fact, in the coming decades it's underpopulation they'll have to worry about in Europe, Russia and Japan. The US is an exception - our birthrate is more or less at replacement level. But even the New York Times recently ran a big article on the coming "age wave" and population decrease in the above areas, and openly acknowledged that by 2030 or so many large European cities will be majority Muslim.

Of course those who see nothing but evil in European history also see nothing wrong with its end.


Are the Spanish still campaigning for immigrants in South America?

I do know that from time to time (maybe currently), both Spain and Italy have made it extremely easy for Argentinians to receive residence/citizenship; probably because they see them as being pretty culturally similar/assilimable.

528 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:58:18pm

And you thought the security camera were a pain:

UK Approves Police Hacking Home Computers

The only authorization that's needed for the surveillance is for a senior officer to determine that the monitoring is "proportionate" and necessary to investigate a "serious" crime (any crime that carries a possible jail sentence of at least three years). This could involve, for example, anyone suspected of terrorism, pedophilia or identity or credit card theft.

To conduct the remote hacking, police can send an e-mail containing a virus to the suspect's computer, break into a residence to install a keystroke logger onto a machine or simply place a surveillance van in the vicinity of a wireless network to intercept the traffic.

529 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:59:00pm

re: #523 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #513 Silhouette


No, I don't misunderstand you, but I stick to simple definition of things and words. I refuse to let the Leftoids change what is meant to suit their agenda.

Er... again; this definitional distinction was not something Obama just came up with last year.

530 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:59:06pm

re: #517 alegrias

* * *
Oh, Peter Sellars' "Nixon in China" was a tax-subsidized snoozer too in 1987 or 88.
How it got booked into the Kennedy Center with your tax dollars is such a mystery. NOT!

Eh, there's this to be said, though, for those hokey revolutionary operas/ballets of Madam Mao: the talent was there.

531 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:59:42pm

re: #484 vagabond trader

re: #456 Optimizer

Actually abortion rates in the USA are disproportionately high within the African American community.Uncomfortable stats for the left.

It is not immediately obvious to me why the left would be "uncomfortable" with that stat, but whatever it is I feel fairly confident that it's either racist or simply seriously flawed. I don't think I had heard that stat, BTW. I imagine there's many ways to look at the stats to explain why that is.

532 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:59:52pm
533 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:59:58pm

See y'all tomorrow.

534 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:00:02pm

re: #515 buzzsawmonkey

Agreed. If the community needs it, and the product is good, it will happen. If one side or other of that equation is null, than it's not to be.

535 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:00:07pm

re: #525 Walter L. Newton

I just looked at there website, and I have a BIG problem with one thing. They are not going to refund any pre-sale tickets for future shows.

So my orchestra seats for "Springtime for Hitler" are worthless?

536 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:00:10pm

re: #518 Occasional Reader

Huh? No, this was not something Obama came up with.

"Volunteer" means something different when applied to "volunteer versus conscripted armed forces", than when referring to "volunteer work in your local community". Always been that way.

What kicked this off is someone here saying astronauts were not volunteers, and I disagreed. So what O said never entered into what I was talking about, ok? ;)

537 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:00:24pm

re: #22 Guanxi88

Ah.

My bad.

Do you speak Chinese?

538 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:01:14pm

re: #498 formercorpsman

I did not want to be the one to bring this up, but it caught my ear when I heard it as well.

Risking the bad form of citing myself, I commented on it immediately because it was quite jarring to me.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Frankly, it fills me with some dread.

539 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:01:22pm

re: #440 Occam's Beard

I wouldn't accuse anyone of altering their findings, which would be clearly unethical; if anything, it's more a case of self-censorship. Imagine that you'd found evidence (from, say, gene expression studies, i.e., not social science crap) suggesting that racial groups in fact differed genetically in intelligence. Would you be in a big hurry to publish that, or do you think you might want to let that baby mellow in a file cabinet for a while? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

i'm thinking of man made global warming.
society is on board w/ it religiously.
and gov't has a lot invested in the green movement.
there's a lot of pressure there for a scientist to make findings that fit the acceptable agenda.
not to mention the grant money and job opportunities at liberal teaching establishments.

540 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:01:38pm

It is truly wonderful to learn that the economic meltdown and severe recession shall have been directly responsible for finding cures for cancer, alzheimers and most other diseases, for weaning the US off imported hydrocarbons, for transforming the US economy into a full-employment surplus position and for bringing about world peace.
So who needs savings, pensions, health care or a job?
Life is good.
/

541 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:01:47pm

re: #535 Occasional Reader

So my orchestra seats for "Springtime for Hitler" are worthless?

You paid to see just one musical number in the show "The Producers?" Really, you'll enjoy the show if you see the whole thing.

542 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:02:05pm

re: #531 Optimizer

re: #484 vagabond trader


re: #456 Optimizer

Actually abortion rates in the USA are disproportionately high within the African American community.Uncomfortable stats for the left.


It is not immediately obvious to me why the left would be "uncomfortable" with that stat, but whatever it is I feel fairly confident that it's either racist or simply seriously flawed. I don't think I had heard that stat, BTW. I imagine there's many ways to look at the stats to explain why that is.


I don't know why it would be surprising. African-Americans, sadly, also have a much higher out-of-wedlock birthrate.
It's reasonable for these trends to be linked.

543 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:02:34pm

re: #536 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #518 Occasional Reader


What kicked this off is someone here saying astronauts were not volunteers, and I disagreed. So what O said never entered into what I was talking about, ok? ;)

Quote:

Then O and his cronies are once again trying to change the meaning of words to suit their own purposes. I won't stand for such crap.

544 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #537 Ben Hur

Ah.

My bad.

Do you speak Chinese?

Learning; very freaking hard for a Westerner, but my business seems to make that a requirement. I can limp along on English alone for only so long.

These operas give you real insight into what a cultural revolution (in this case, THE Cultural Revolution) looks like. They're weird as all Hell, but they were the only form of entertainment available in the PRC for nearly 15 years. Any Chinese under age 40 probably knows the songs by heart.

545 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:03:38pm

re: #542 nikis-knight

I don't know why it would be surprising. African-Americans, sadly, also have a much higher out-of-wedlock birthrate.
It's reasonable for these trends to be linked.

True or not, you CAN'T quote stats like that.
/

546 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:03:39pm

re: #529 Occasional Reader

Er... again; this definitional distinction was not something Obama just came up with last year.

What does O have to do with whether astronauts are volunteers or not? Total nonsequitar there, as I see it.

Someone here said astronauts were not volunteers and I disagreed. What O says has absolutely no bearing on that, ok? ;)

547 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:04:00pm
548 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:04:41pm

re: #519 Kosh's Shadow

re: #505 Optimizer


PAO = Public Affairs Office.
(Sounds like a place for Bill Clinton)

Thanks. You know, this episode almost sounds familiar - from way back.

So Bush & Co's efforts to undermine politically-motivated bad science were thwarted many years ago, and this guy's still crying about it?

Did they try to influence any legitimate scientific announcements? Just askin'.

549 jorline  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:04:47pm

Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school

Don't' you just love the Religion Of Peace and tolerance? Acceptance...unless you're female, believe differently or don't like pedophiles.

We're suppose to be able to sit down with these people and find a common ground?

550 OldScouter  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:05:02pm

So, I am off-topic, but this does have to do with science. Having survived -26 degrees here in Iowa, I needed a smile, if not a laugh. I found it at Youtube. With apologies to the Bare Naked Ladies. No content warning required, unless you are a believer in the Goracle.

551 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:05:31pm

re: #547 NYCHardhat

Naive.

Naive Melody:

552 deanyc  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:05:34pm
"...It’s his recognition of what science can do to bring this country back in an innovative way.”

Gee, Mr. Press. Exactly what can science do to bring this country back? Suck up more of my tax dollars, perhaps?

553 ShalomMets  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:05:56pm

re: #5 Alouette

re: #5 Alouette

Grant money!

Exactly. My wife, a scientist and closet republican, went along with the herd at her lab and watched the speech. She told me that when The One mentioned the snarky bit about "retoring science" or whatnot (I wonder what these people have been doing the last eight years-fake science?), the whole room cheered and started talking about how there would now be more grant money made available.

554 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:05:56pm

re: #546 FurryOldGuyJeans

What does O have to do with whether astronauts are volunteers or not? Total nonsequitar there, as I see it.

Someone here said astronauts were not volunteers and I disagreed. What O says has absolutely no bearing on that, ok? ;)

"Who dares Question the Great and Powerful 'O'" zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:06:08pm

re: #525 Walter L. Newton

I agree. I live in a fairly "arts neanderthals" community. Big shows always drew well, others...eh. Just not a avant garde community, but they insisted on running stuff people wouldn't go to see.

All for the sake of art. Sigh.

Run Oklahoma, Sound of Music, West Side Store, Jesus Christ Superstar, Lil' Abner, on a five year cycle? They'd have been fine.

Their last show is "Driving Miss Daisy".

556 davesax  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:06:40pm

Buzzsaw:

Don't know those places, but I take your word on it!

BAM is good, and so is Landmark Sunshine.

They don't have as good movies as FilmForum though.

557 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:07:07pm

re: #553 ShalomMets

re: #5 Alouette


Exactly. My wife, a scientist and closet republican, went along with the herd at her lab and watched the speech. She told me that when The One mentioned the snarky bit about "retoring science" or whatnot (I wonder what these people have been doing the last eight years-fake science?), the whole room cheered and started talking about how there would now be more grant money made available.

* * *
Your poor wife works with hopium addicts. 12-step program needed here!

558 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:07:25pm

OT - Killer Decapitates Va Tech Student

(CNN) -- A female graduate student at Virginia Tech was killed Wednesday night when a man she knew attacked her with a knife and decapitated her, a school spokesman said.

Virginia Tech police Chief Wendell Flinchum talks about the first slaying on campus since the 2007 shootings.

Virginia Tech spokesman Mark Owczarski said Thursday that Xin Yang's killing was the first on the campus since April 16, 2007, when a shooter killed 32 people before turning a gun on himself.

Yang, 22, from Beijing, China, was killed at the Au Bon Pain restaurant in the Graduate Life Center at around 7 p.m., school spokesman Larry Hincker said in a written statement.

Campus police took Haiyang Zhu, 25, into custody at the scene. The Ningbo, China, native has been charged with first-degree murder and is being held without bail at a local jail, Hincker said.

I have no words other than evil sucks.

559 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:07:58pm

re: #551 Guanxi88

Naive Melody:


[Video]

I love it. TH are the best.

560 nikis-knight  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:09:01pm

re: #558 Silhouette

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

561 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:09:13pm

George Mitchell appoint as ME envoy.

562 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:09:22pm

re: #559 NYCHardhat

I love it. TH are the best.

Yes, I think that, political, religious, cultural, and class differences can all be set aside to unite the world around the luminous genius that is the Talking Heads.

563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:09:24pm

re: #558 Silhouette

Last night on the news they said she "died at the scene". Horrible. I didn't know about the decapitation.

564 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:09:29pm

re: #558 Silhouette

OT - Killer Decapitates Va Tech Student

I have no words other than evil sucks.

Without trying to turn this into a gun thread, I wonder what would have happened if students were allowed to carry concealed weapons. My guess? He would have made it about three steps with the knife in his hand.

565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:11pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

Ask OJ. Nichole was practically decapitated.

566 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:13pm

re: #45 jorline

Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school

Don't' you just love the Religion Of Peace and tolerance? Acceptance...unless you're female, believe differently or don't like pedophiles.

We're suppose to be able to sit down with these people and find a common ground?

Emancipated by the War Criminal Bush.

567 beens21  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:13pm

re: #547 NYCHardhat

that "divisiveness" that she refers to was all caused by the Dems.

568 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:28pm

I just read Marines are not allowed in Tijuana any more, because its turned into Carson City.

569 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:29pm

re: #543 Occasional Reader

Ok, I was addressing similar themes as two distinct ideations. My bad for being less than perfect in differentiating that. ;)

570 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:37pm

re: #562 Guanxi88

Yes, I think that, political, religious, cultural, and class differences can all be set aside to unite the world around the luminous genius that is the Talking Heads.

Don't worry about the government.

571 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:40pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

re: #558 Silhouette

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

Obviously they need more knife free zones at the school.

572 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:10:49pm

re: #564 Creeping Eruption

Without trying to turn this into a gun thread, I wonder what would have happened if students were allowed to carry concealed weapons. My guess? He would have made it about three steps with the knife in his hand.

Eh, maybe, but if his victim was here on F-1 Visa, then equalizers would not have been available to her.

573 FloridaAnole  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:04pm

Headline Should read: "Scientists Overcome by Hope of Mucho Grant Money. Sixty Members of Lefitist Science Soviet Want Multi-Billion Dollar Study of Global Warming -- No Longer Being Told By White House to ESAD."

574 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:16pm
575 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:41pm

re: #555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"West Side Store": Isn't that what the call a bodega?

576 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:48pm

OT

Just had a thought re: the Gitmo detainees. I say let them out but into Cuba (hey,,,, all they gave to do is walk 500 yards and they're there!). After a week or so in that Socialistic Paradise, they will be POUNDING on Gitmos gates DEMANING to be let back in for their 3 square meals, 5 prayer sessions per day, fantastic medical care and security!

577 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:51pm

re: #478 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Before he was elected I told a moonbat friend that green was going to be the new latest bubble scam.

578 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:55pm

re: #572 Guanxi88

Eh, maybe, but if his victim was here on F-1 Visa, then equalizers would not have been available to her.

No, but they would be available to the American students who, undoubtedly would have stepped in - especially at V. Tech.

579 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:11:58pm

re: #555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I agree. I live in a fairly "arts neanderthals" community. Big shows always drew well, others...eh. Just not a avant garde community, but they insisted on running stuff people wouldn't go to see.

All for the sake of art. Sigh.

Run Oklahoma, Sound of Music, West Side Store, Jesus Christ Superstar, Lil' Abner, on a five year cycle? They'd have been fine.

Their last show is "Driving Miss Daisy".

Art without an audience is artifacts. Trademarked ME!

580 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:00pm

re: #564 Creeping Eruption

Without trying to turn this into a gun thread, I wonder what would have happened if students were allowed to carry concealed weapons. My guess? He would have made it about three steps with the knife in his hand.

VT is a "gun free zone", donchaknow. Since just before the 2007 shootings.

I hate that when people think of my school, they think of death.

581 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:08pm

re: #561 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

George Mitchell appoint as ME envoy.

Will Israel survive the Obama Administration?

582 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:10pm

re: #575 Cato the Elder

WHOOPSY DOODLE!

583 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:11pm

re: #572 Guanxi88

re: #564 Creeping Eruption


Eh, maybe, but if his victim was here on F-1 Visa, then equalizers would not have been available to her.

Nope, but 2-3 other people sitting around the same area with a .45 might have had something to say on the matter.

584 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:12pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

re: #558 Silhouette

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.


It disturbed Nick Berg.

585 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:16pm

re: #570 NYCHardhat

Don't worry about the government.

Did I forget to mention,
Forget to mention Memphis?
Home of Elvis and the Ancient Greeks.

586 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:12:29pm

re: #568 Maximu§

I've not been to TJ in years, partly because the news out of there is so bad, really bad.

587 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:17pm

re: #568 Maximu§

I just read Marines are not allowed in Tijuana any more, because its turned into Carson City.

Tijuana is now the capitol of Nevada?!?

588 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:27pm

re: #583 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope, but 2-3 other people sitting around the same area with a .45 might have had something to say on the matter.

True, that. Nothing says, "Knock that off!" like a .45 slug center of mass.

589 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:37pm

re: #576 sattv4u2

OT

Just had a thought re: the Gitmo detainees. I say let them out but into Cuba (hey,,,, all they gave to do is walk 500 yards and they're there!). After a week or so in that Socialistic Paradise, they will be POUNDING on Gitmos gates DEMANING to be let back in for their 3 square meals, 5 prayer sessions per day, fantastic medical care and security!

A little payback for the Mariel boat crossing?

590 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:47pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

Not if you're a jihadist.

Remember Nick Berg and others!

591 Kragar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:50pm

re: #586 freetoken

re: #568 Maximu§

I've not been to TJ in years, partly because the news out of there is so bad, really bad.

I live in San Diego. You couldn't pay me to go to TJ. I'd walk thru downtown Bagdad before you could get me to go to Mexico.

592 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:13:59pm
593 notutopia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:02pm

Perhaps the US can bring back both jobs and security to our Medical Pharmaceuticals which are being manufactured in other countries.

Pharmaceutical Marketing’s Shift Abroad Concerns Analysts and Ethicists Internationally
[Link: blog.360.yahoo.com...]

594 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:30pm

re: #580 Silhouette

VT is a "gun free zone", donchaknow. Since just before the 2007 shootings.

I hate that when people think of my school, they think of death.

I don't. I think of all the people I know who graduated from there. I understand though. I'm from Milwaukee and all I hear is Leverne and Shirly, Happy Days and Jeffrey Dahmer.

595 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:35pm

re: #475 nikis-knight

At my comment 409:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

596 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:39pm

re: #564 Creeping Eruption

Without trying to turn this into a gun thread, I wonder what would have happened if students were allowed to carry concealed weapons. My guess? He would have made it about three steps with the knife in his hand.

And I bet there were people in there yelling SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING

Like what ,,, hit the guy with a CinnaBun!?!?!

597 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:52pm

re: #592 buzzsawmonkey

Edited.

Did I forget to mention,
Forget to mention Memphis?
Home of Elvis and the Ancient Greeks Egyptians.

I'm sticking with what was written. Take it up with David Byrne.

598 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:14:52pm

re: #579 Walter L. Newton

Art without an audience is artifacts. Trademarked ME!

That is genius! And too true.

Walter, your theatre does a lot of original stuff, and to hear you describe some of the shows, it seems to be a bit "Off-Broadway (pardon the term); University types attend? What type of audiences do you guys bring in?

599 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:15:18pm

re: #591 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I live in San Diego. You couldn't pay me to go to TJ. I'd walk thru downtown Bagdad before you could get me to go to Mexico.

That's because in Baghdad, there'd be Marines.

600 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:15:20pm

Thank heavens Obama is embracing intellectualism in his administration. Some is better than none, and Obama seems to be planning bringing a lot of it.

601 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:15:27pm

re: #594 Creeping Eruption

I'm from Milwaukee and all I hear is Leverne and Shirly, Happy Days and Jeffrey Dahmer.

For what it is worth, I think "beer."

602 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:15:29pm

re: #549 jorline

Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school

Don't' you just love the Religion Of Peace and tolerance? Acceptance...unless you're female, believe differently or don't like pedophiles.

We're suppose to be able to sit down with these people and find a common ground?

the O thinks he can.
he is in for such a rude awakening.
i hate having a potus who is so stupid.
he is an embarrassment.

603 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:02pm
604 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:09pm

re: #538 opinionated

re: #498 formercorpsman


Risking the bad form of citing myself, I commented on it immediately because it was quite jarring to me.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Frankly, it fills me with some dread.

I didn't make much of it, myself. I took the first pairing as being because these are the two largest religious groups (worldwide) who have been at odds in recent decades (and centuries). I took the second pairing as squeezing in mention of other religions with a significant domestic presence.

Heck, this was reminds me of the only highlight in the whole thing - the recognition of "non-believers" as citizens, too.

605 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:30pm

re: #599 Guanxi88

That's because in Baghdad, there'd be Marines.

HEH ,, ever BEEN to Tijuana? There's more US military there than in the ME some days!

606 jorline  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:35pm

Housekeeper and Taxes Are Said to Derail Kennedy’s Bid

The person close to the governor said Mr. Paterson “never had any intention of picking Kennedy” because he had come to consider her unready for the job. The person did not describe the exact nature or seriousness of the tax and household employee issues.

She should have put her name in the hat for Treasury Secretary.

607 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:37pm

re: #586 freetoken

I've not been to TJ in years, partly because the news out of there is so bad, really bad.

Heres the link.

Tijuana off-limits to U.S. Marines

608 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:40pm

re: #596 sattv4u2

And I bet there were people in there yelling SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING

Like what ,,, hit the guy with a CinnaBun!?!?!

"Stop . . .or I'll say "Stop" again." Shame. I feel bad for her family and the Va. Tech community.

609 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:47pm

re: #601 Silhouette

re: #594 Creeping Eruption


For what it is worth, I think "beer."

And for $64.00, what is the name of the beer that made Milwaukee famous?

610 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:16:53pm

I think I am allergic to hopenchange. I've been sick all day. To make it worse, my 17 year old is in the ER (they think kidney stone) and they won't let me be there because I have a fever and have GI issues. So she is there with her Daddy, and I am here worrying.

611 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:17:02pm

re: #601 Silhouette

For what it is worth, I think "beer."

Thanks - me too. LOL.

612 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:17:16pm

re: #600 Basho

Thank heavens Obama is embracing intellectualism in his administration. Some is better than none, and Obama seems to be planning bringing a lot of it.

you must be a dem.

613 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #531 Optimizer

It is not immediately obvious to me why the left would be "uncomfortable" with that stat, but whatever it is I feel fairly confident that it's either racist or simply seriously flawed. I don't think I had heard that stat, BTW. I imagine there's many ways to look at the stats to explain why that is.

Right you are. I read a paper recently on the subject with the stats and it ended with "the most dangerous place for a black child in America is in it's mother's womb."
stunnning.

614 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:17:29pm

re: #603 buzzsawmonkey

He should know better. Memphis was/is in Egypt, not Greece.

Born in Arizona, moved to Babylonia, King Tut.

615 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:18:01pm

re: #594 Creeping Eruption

I don't. I think of all the people I know who graduated from there. I understand though. I'm from Milwaukee and all I hear is Leverne and Shirly, Happy Days and Jeffrey Dahmer.

616 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:18:04pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

It also in not something that is quick. The article says she was killed in a restaurant on campus. Were the two completely alone, or what?

617 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:18:16pm

re: #610 ArmyWife

I think I am allergic to hopenchange. I've been sick all day. To make it worse, my 17 year old is in the ER (they think kidney stone) and they won't let me be there because I have a fever and have GI issues. So she is there with her Daddy, and I am here worrying.

Awww, we're sorry!

618 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:18:25pm

re: #609 redstateredneck

And for $64.00, what is the name of the beer that made Milwaukee famous?

I'm guessing it is not Milwaukee's Best.

Schaffers?

619 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:18:33pm

re: #612 NYCHardhat

ya think? ;)

620 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:04pm

re: #615 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops. I'm dumb today.

621 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:08pm

re: #617 redstateredneck

Thank you. And thank you for indulging my whining.

622 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:09pm

re: #619 ArmyWife

ya think? ;)

I'm new to this bansho character.

623 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:10pm

re: #618 Silhouette

re: #609 redstateredneck


I'm guessing it is not Milwaukee's Best.

Schaffers?

Schlitz!

624 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:11pm

re: #576 sattv4u2

OT

Just had a thought re: the Gitmo detainees. I say let them out but into Cuba (hey,,,, all they gave to do is walk 500 yards and they're there!). After a week or so in that Socialistic Paradise, they will be POUNDING on Gitmos gates DEMANING to be let back in for their 3 square meals, 5 prayer sessions per day, fantastic medical care and security!

* * * *
Only problem is Fidel and his brother Raul don't believe in freedom of religion. No prayer rugs allowed in Cuba Revolucionaria. Only silly Gringo Gitmo allows that.

625 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:16pm

re: #591 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I live in the county... Me too, you couldn't pay me to go to TJ now (well, any more than visiting the shopping mall right by the gate... maybe I'd do that as long as it was daylight.)

626 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:27pm
627 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:37pm

re: #618 Silhouette

Thats not beer. I don't know what it is, but beer it ain't

628 Taqiyyotomist  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:40pm

Drive-by:
I wonder if there has been a noticable increase in cases of major depression in the wake of the inauguration, and if the media would bother reporting this f***ing fact, you know, like they ceaselessly did following the last one.

629 notutopia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:50pm

re: #610 ArmyWife

I think I am allergic to hopenchange. I've been sick all day. To make it worse, my 17 year old is in the ER (they think kidney stone) and they won't let me be there because I have a fever and have GI issues. So she is there with her Daddy, and I am here worrying.

{Armywife} My prayers for your daughter and for you.

630 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:19:57pm

re: #603 buzzsawmonkey

He should know better. Memphis was/is in Egypt, not Greece.

Yeah, but "Home of Elvis and the Ancient Egyptians" doesn't fit the meter scheme. He worked with what he had, such as it was, and, being determined to point out that the home of Elvis is named for an ancient city, threw in Greeks.

631 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:02pm

re: #618 Silhouette

I'm guessing it is not Milwaukee's Best.

Schaffers?

Duff's?

632 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:07pm

re: #617 redstateredneck

Sorry to hear that, but if stone, nothing a little vicodine won't take care of.

633 RedPepper  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:13pm

“If you look at the science world, you see a lot of happy faces,” said Frank Press ...

Imagine how this thread would look if emoticons worked here?

634 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:31pm

re: #622 NYCHardhat

I've seen his cloaked down dings. But whatever, right? We calls 'um like we sees 'um.

635 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:44pm

re: #616 FurryOldGuyJeans

It also in not something that is quick. The article says she was killed in a restaurant on campus. Were the two completely alone, or what?

That must have been a hell of a knife. How horrible!

636 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:57pm

re: #568 Maximu§

I just read Marines are not allowed in Tijuana any more, because its turned into Carson City.

* * *
Decapitations are happening in Tijuana, and over 800 murders in that city alone last year.

Not good place for our troops--too much like the Caliphate and only 50 miles from San Diego, California.

637 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:20:59pm

re: #632 Creeping Eruption

re: #617 redstateredneck

Sorry to hear that, but if stone, nothing a little vicodine won't take care of.

It wasn't me, but if you're offering...
;-)

638 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:21:07pm

re: #602 nyc redneck

the O thinks he can.
he is in for such a rude awakening.
i hate having a potus who is so stupid.
he is an embarrassment.

I'm trying to give the Dali-Bama the benefit of the doubt and support him, but it gets harder by the day.

639 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:21:23pm

re: #621 ArmyWife

Thank you. And thank you for indulging my whining.

Hope you and your Daughter get feeling better soon..
Good luck!

640 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:21:32pm

As a graduate student at one of the top 10 universities in America, I must say I get a gigantic kick out of this.

I've always wondered why so many scientists are so liberal --- the economic theory I've studied tends to be conservative, and liberalism is more "happy-feely" than concrete evidence. After working with in academia, I've come to the conclusion that it's all about money. Democrats will increase funding for agencies like the NSF, which means professors have an easier time getting more money for their experiments. Republicans generally reduce such funding, so they find themselves having to be more competitive for the same funds.

I see an enormous amount of garbage research that's produced. Most people produce mountains of trash but are excellent salesmen, so it appears as if they are actually getting things done.

The only benefit I see for funding is that it eventually attracts a few professors that are quite good. These are the people that establish good reputations and attract smart people to study at American universities, many of whom stay in the US afterward.

641 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:21:53pm

re: #634 ArmyWife

I've seen his cloaked down dings. But whatever, right? We calls 'um like we sees 'um.

His/her backwards logic further emphasizes the greatness of this country.

642 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:21:54pm

re: #637 redstateredneck

It wasn't me, but if you're offering...
;-)

You can have it. I have drawer full. I can take the pain better than I can take that stuff.

643 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:09pm

re: #627 Creeping Eruption

Thats not beer. I don't know what it is, but beer it ain't

It all tastes horrible to me, so when I did drink, I figured I might as well drink the cheap stuff.

644 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:14pm

re: #629 notutopia

Thanks. Waiting on the CT results. She is doped up, she probably feels better than I do right now!

645 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:18pm

re: #640 Keyboard

I've come to the conclusion that it's all about money.


Cha-ching!

646 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:39pm

re: #604 Optimizer

I didn't make much of it, myself. I took the first pairing as being because these are the two largest religious groups (worldwide) who have been at odds in recent decades (and centuries). I took the second pairing as squeezing in mention of other religions with a significant domestic presence.

Heck, this was reminds me of the only highlight in the whole thing - the recognition of "non-believers" as citizens, too.

In your response you evidence why in fact it is strange.

The quote was

"we are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus--and nonbelievers".

If you believe that the pairing makes sense based on population worldwide that it certainly makes no sense based on the population of the US where Jews STILL outnumber Muslims.

It could be Obama was engaging in wishful thinking and telegraphing his immigration policies.

647 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:42pm

re: #643 Silhouette

Fair enough.

648 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:44pm

re: #643 Silhouette

It all tastes horrible to me, so when I did drink, I figured I might as well drink the cheap stuff.

Hear, hear! They make it, somebody's gotta drink it.

649 Stonemason  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:50pm

Off topic>

The tech answers here at LGF are usually great so here is a question. My son would like to have photoshop however, my wallet does not want photoshop. Is there a free-ware or open source equivalent that is recommended by the techies?

650 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #542 nikis-knight

Um, a little more nefarious than that. Read what the founder of Planned Parenthood had to say about blacks.

[Link: www.dianedew.com...]

651 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:22:50pm

Ew.
More on Hamas.
Brig. Gen. Eyal Eisenberg said the civilians (women and children) were sent by Hamas to transfer weapons to gunmen during the offensive. He also accused the Islamist militant group of booby-trapping many of the civilians' homes.

"Entire families in Gaza lived on top of a barrel of explosives for months without knowing," Eisenberg said.

Also....
Palestinian civilians have accused Hamas of forcing them to stay in homes from which gunmen shot at Israeli soldiers during the recent hostilities in Gaza.

Again, the same Italian source cited.....
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

652 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:04pm

re: #609 redstateredneck

And for $64.00, what is the name of the beer that made Milwaukee famous?

Well, there was this pitcher, Mel Famey. He was a great pitcher, but had a tendency to drink.

One hot day, he didn't expect to pitch, so he opened a few cans in the bullpen. But with the heat, the team rapidly went through pitchers. Eventually, Mel Famey was put on the mound.
The game was tied, and it was the 9th inning.

He had a few too many, and his pitches were wild. Quickly, he walked three batters.
The fourth came up to bat, and again, his pitches were wide. He walked in the run.

As the other players came off the field, one of the players saw the pile of cans outside the bullpen, and remarked to his teammate,
"There's the beer that made Mel Famey Walk Us"

653 FloridaAnole  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:30pm

re: #600 Basho

Thank heavens Obama is embracing intellectualism in his administration. Some is better than none, and Obama seems to be planning bringing a lot of it.

The Global warming scam is intellectualism?

654 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:38pm

re: #598 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is genius! And too true.

Walter, your theatre does a lot of original stuff, and to hear you describe some of the shows, it seems to be a bit "Off-Broadway (pardon the term); University types attend? What type of audiences do you guys bring in?

No, we don't do a lot of originals, not in the sense of full seasons worth. We do seven shows a year. In the last 7 years, we have done 5 original works, 4 of mine and one from a Wy. college professor.

But we do have a good mix of plain old audience pleasers and headier material.

Or season this year is...

Shining City (drama, heady)
The Visitor (Freud meets "god" in 1938 Austria, theatre of the absurd)
Move Over Mrs. Markam (british farce)
Over the River and through The Woods (romance comedy)
Enchanted April (romance drama)
A Picasso (Picasso meets Nazi trying to identify his art work)
It's A Wonderful Life, the radio play.

Very much a mixed bag, a little for everyone. Shining City is a regional premier, first time done in the west.

[Link: www.minersalley.com...]

655 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:39pm

re: #643 Silhouette

re: #627 Creeping Eruption


It all tastes horrible to me, so when I did drink, I figured I might as well drink the cheap stuff.

We used to say (back in the day) that if Budweiser was the king of beers, then Schaffer's was the prince.
Plus it was a buck a six-pack.

656 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:42pm

re: #600 Basho

Thank heavens Obama is embracing intellectualism in his administration. Some is better than none, and Obama seems to be planning bringing a lot of it.

*sigh* Thanks for perpetuating the 'conservatives are ignorant anti-intellectual knuckle dragging idiots' stereotype. Much appreciated. I hope you're not disappointed with the new Age of Enlightenment.

657 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:23:46pm

re: #603 buzzsawmonkey

He should know better. Memphis was/is in Egypt, not Greece.

Name we use came via the Greeks, though.

658 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:24:01pm

re: #612 NYCHardhat

you must be a dem.

*shrug*
If I don't have to hear the US President saying both evolution and intelligent design should be taught in class or sign a bill to have the federal government interfere in a Schiavoish case then I'll be happy.

Surely, Obama giving support to the scientific community has no party lines?

659 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:24:07pm

re: #638 Maximu§

I'm trying to give the Dali-Bama the benefit of the doubt and support him, but it gets harder by the day.

i admire your resolve.
(brace yourself for disappointment, tho.)

660 jorline  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:24:43pm

re: #620 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops. I'm dumb today.

Nice to meet you Dumb Today....I'm Dumb Everyday.

Same first name, but my stupidity is deeper. :)

661 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #652 Kosh's Shadow

groan!

662 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:25:10pm

re: #649 Stonemason

Off topic>

The tech answers here at LGF are usually great so here is a question. My son would like to have photoshop however, my wallet does not want photoshop. Is there a free-ware or open source equivalent that is recommended by the techies?

GIMP, or Gnu Image Manipulation Program. Open source, and free.

663 Stonemason  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:25:43pm

re: #662 Kosh's Shadow

GIMP, or Gnu Image Manipulation Program. Open source, and free.

Thank you! I knew this would work

664 Soona'  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:25:53pm

re: #610 ArmyWife

I think I am allergic to hopenchange. I've been sick all day. To make it worse, my 17 year old is in the ER (they think kidney stone) and they won't let me be there because I have a fever and have GI issues. So she is there with her Daddy, and I am here worrying.

GI issues? With a nic of "ArmyWife" you probably do. ;)

665 SaneInMN  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:25:55pm

I'm late to this thread, but the comments by some above expressing glee over human cloning etc. is absolutely disgusting. To what end do you think this line of research will lead? And if your OK with growing human beings past the 7 day gastrula stage in order to harvest undifferentiated human tissue, you need to conduct some serious self-evaluation. Your the same kind of idiot who jumped on the promise of viral-delivered anti-cancer drugs...until they killed a few people. Oops, a few broken eggs, thats all. The same kind of idiot who reviewed Hwang Woo-suks work on embryonic stems cells and published it in one of the most cited peer reviewed journals. Too bad it was 90% bull-shit.
The same kind of idiot who, when confronted with data indicating that the Antarctic ice cap is expanding, takes a single point of data from the coldest year since records have been kept, and uses that point to establish the "standard" area of ice cover that should occur at the height of the Antarctic winter.
I am a scientist, a molecular biologist to specific, who performs basic research at one of the leading medical institutions in this country. Despite the NIH budget DOUBLING between 1998 and 2003, the freaks that I work with were not satisfied. Given the smaller increases in NIH funding that has occurred since 2003, they are absolutely ecstatic about the promise of increased govt. cheese (BTW, these fools rarely bring up the fact that universities grossly overexpanded during the late 90's). This euphoria expressed by scientists over the Messiah is ALL ABOUT MONEY! But here is the real kicker, at least as far as medical research goes. The govt. can fund all the R01, R21, SPORE, etc. grants they want, but if private institutions don't see the market turning around, the BIG MONEY will never be seen. And govt. handouts never equate to increased corporate profits.

666 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #606 jorline

Housekeeper and Taxes Are Said to Derail Kennedy’s Bid


She should have put her name in the hat for Treasury Secretary.

* * *
You're right, her grandfather Joe Kennedy was head of the Securities and Exchange Commission at one point, wasn't he? Appointed by Roosevelt under the logic of putting the fox in charge of the henhouse.

667 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:26:32pm

re: #628 Taqiyyotomist

Drive-by:
I wonder if there has been a noticable increase in cases of major depression in the wake of the inauguration, and if the media would bother reporting this f***ing fact, you know, like they ceaselessly did following the last one.

Actually a talk radio host mentioned that MSM said just the opposite: that the reporters and staff had not met anyone who wasn't overjoyed at the new administration!
So the host invited only callers who were depressed, bitter or otherwise joyless to call in.
His phone lines were inundated!

668 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:26:43pm

re: #542 nikis-knight

re: #531 Optimizer


re: #484 vagabond trader


re: #456 Optimizer

Actually abortion rates in the USA are disproportionately high within the African American community.Uncomfortable stats for the left.


It is not immediately obvious to me why the left would be "uncomfortable" with that stat, but whatever it is I feel fairly confident that it's either racist or simply seriously flawed. I don't think I had heard that stat, BTW. I imagine there's many ways to look at the stats to explain why that is.

I don't know why it would be surprising. African-Americans, sadly, also have a much higher out-of-wedlock birthrate.
It's reasonable for these trends to be linked.

Is it? High "out-of-wedlock birthrate" might just imply a tendency for out-of-wedlock pregnant women to not have an abortion, right? I realize that this is not necessarily the case, but the point is what we would expect from one statistic, given another.

Perhaps you're suggesting there's a high "out-of-wedlock" pregnacy rate, while the ratio of terminations to births is about the same?

Anyway, all I ever heard was that about 1/3 of the children in that ethnic group are illegitimate these days (IIRC), and I found that astounding.

669 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #657 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #603 buzzsawmonkey


Name we use came via the Greeks, though.

Reminds me of the father in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". Everything came from the Greeks!

670 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #658 Basho

*shrug*
If I don't have to hear the US President saying both evolution and intelligent design should be taught in class or sign a bill to have the federal government interfere in a Schiavoish case then I'll be happy.

Surely, Obama giving support to the scientific community has no party lines?

Hey pal, as a scientist myself, I could give a shit what the POTUS says about it. If he has no fucking idea about foreign policy, the economy, or common sense he isn't worth a blackberry to me.

671 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:27:00pm

re: #649 Stonemason

Off topic>

The tech answers here at LGF are usually great so here is a question. My son would like to have photoshop however, my wallet does not want photoshop. Is there a free-ware or open source equivalent that is recommended by the techies?

I use PaintDotNet.

672 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:27:16pm

Oh, for f*ck's sake!

Look who's got an op-ed at the New York Times today!

The One-State Solution, by Muammar Qaddafi.

Excuse me while I go be sick.

673 kcladderman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:27:37pm

re: #646 opinionated

If you believe that the pairing makes sense based on population worldwide that it certainly makes no sense based on the population of the US where Jews STILL outnumber Muslims.

It could be Obama was engaging in wishful thinking and telegraphing his immigration policies.

I think you might be looking too hard.

674 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:27:47pm

re: #663 Stonemason

Thank you! I knew this would work

See, now I'm going to try it, too.
Thanks for thinking of a question I should have asked a year ago.

675 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:13pm

re: #672 Cato the Elder

Oh, for f*ck's sake!

Look who's got an op-ed at the New York Times today!

The One-State Solution, by Muammar Qaddafi.

Excuse me while I go be sick.

I refuse to click that link.

676 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:40pm

re: #672 Cato the Elder

Oh, for f*ck's sake!

Look who's got an op-ed at the New York Times today!

The One-State Solution, by Muammar Qaddafi.

Excuse me while I go be sick.

I can hear the NYT circulation going down.

677 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:41pm

re: #665 SaneInMN


Nice to have information from a scientist on the inside. Let us know how it goes with all the rainbows.

678 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:47pm

re: #656 scottishbuzzsaw

*sigh* Thanks for perpetuating the 'conservatives are ignorant anti-intellectual knuckle dragging idiots' stereotype. Much appreciated. I hope you're not disappointed with the new Age of Enlightenment.

Where did I do that? Criticizing one detail about the Bush administration isn't equivalent to insulting conservatives.

679 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:47pm

Stonemason, also look into paint.net

[Link: www.getpaint.net...]

I like it more than GIMP, although GIMP is probably more "powerful" --- unless you're doing very serious image editing, I doubt you'll notice a big difference. You can always try both of them and see which one you like better.

680 jorline  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:28:55pm

re: #666 alegrias

* * *
You're right, her grandfather Joe Kennedy was head of the Securities and Exchange Commission at one point, wasn't he? Appointed by Roosevelt under the logic of putting the fox in charge of the henhouse.

lol...good catch, I didn't remember that.

681 redstateredneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:07pm

Gonna go put on the sweats and hit the gym.
I'ts so hard being beautiful...
;-)
Later, {lizards}.

682 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:13pm

re: #658 Basho

Surely, Obama giving support to the scientific community has no party lines?

You'd be wrong. This is nothing more than political pandering, especially since the article itself is a thinly veiled slam of Bush.

683 loppyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:34pm

re: #666 alegrias

* * *
You're right, her grandfather Joe Kennedy was head of the Securities and Exchange Commission at one point, wasn't he? Appointed by Roosevelt under the logic of putting the fox in charge of the henhouse.

It takes a criminal to know a criminal.

684 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:35pm

re: #646 opinionated

I vote he is just dumb. He is proving it repeatedly. Like "umm...hey Greg, what was this that I just signed and what does it mean?"

685 jorline  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:36pm

BBL

686 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:29:54pm

re: #669 redstateredneck

Reminds me of the father in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". Everything came from the Greeks!

I loved that movie! I liked where everything was cured by spraying windex on it...

687 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:30:00pm

re: #646 opinionated

A good example of how they go back and forth on frames of reference (local, national, world) to suit their agenda. Like who is a minority/majority.

688 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:30:23pm

re: #678 Basho

Where did I do that? Criticizing one detail about the Bush administration isn't equivalent to insulting conservatives.

What is more important to you? Al Qaeda or Global Warming?

689 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:30:42pm

re: #675 redstateredneck

I refuse to click that link.

I did and you should read it only to see how scary it is.

690 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:30:46pm

re: #658 Basho

*shrug*
If I don't have to hear the US President saying both evolution and intelligent design should be taught in class or sign a bill to have the federal government interfere in a Schiavoish case then I'll be happy.

Surely, Obama giving support to the scientific community has no party lines?

* * *
Which scientific "community" you talking about?
You are incredibly naive if you think there's 100% group think in science.

691 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:30:48pm
692 SWPaul  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:31:34pm

Re: Obama Closes Gitmo

This is the best commentary (it's from the magazine Commentary haha) I've seen on the closing of Gitmo. I always thought the big left-wing thing to do in situations like Guantanamo was to enact "civilian committees" to oversee the operations there and have oversight over the situation. I was never a huge fan of how they ran their operations there, but I realized that keeping terrorists, ahem TERRORISTS, detained and off of US soil was a damn good thing. But I guess since the trials are taking waaaaay too long, Obama's best idea is to release some and keep the worst ones, the leaders, close to US cities. Yeah, those cities won't be attacked or a military base attacked.

Are there any military prisons near DC? If Obama and the Democrats want these terrorists on US soil, could it at least be their backyard?!

693 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:31:45pm

re: #664 Soona'

It sounded better than saying I was throwing up. I didn't even put the two together, sadly!

694 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:31:51pm

re: #686 HoosierHoops

I loved that movie! I liked where everything was cured by spraying windex on it...


Maybe we could get a big fat government grant to fund some research on windex healing.

695 Lincolntf  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:32:42pm

re: #641 NYCHardhat

I'm not sure "intellectualism" should be seen as a virtue, anyway. Many of the worst policies our country has ever embarked on were dreamed up by the navel gazers in Academia. Nor do I think it really applies to Obama's peeps. A Secretary of Education from a district with 82% of it's schools underperforming? A Treasury Secretary who "didn't know" how to pay his own taxes (which is pretty basic, and kind of like the Baseball Commissioner not knowing how many innings are in a game)?
Ugh, if thiose two are the cream of the crop, then I say we plow the whole field under.

696 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:32:48pm

re: #670 NYCHardhat

Hey pal, as a scientist myself, I could give a shit what the POTUS says about it. If he has no fucking idea about foreign policy, the economy, or common sense he isn't worth a blackberry to me.

Meh... today is Obama's second full day in office. Give him a break. Many of the greatest US Presidents weren't very knowledgeable in those areas when they started out.

Anyway, that's a distraction. I'm just happy of Obama's outreach to the scientific community.

697 RedPepper  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:33:14pm

re: #672 Cato the Elder

Oh, for f*ck's sake!

Look who's got an op-ed at the New York Times today!

The One-State Solution, by Muammar Qaddafi.

Excuse me while I go be sick.

The same New York Times that would not publish a piece by Sen. McCain during the recent campaign? That New York Times?

I am shocked, shocked ...

698 SWPaul  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #690 alegrias

Meetings are usually run by yelling at each other.

699 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #668 Optimizer

Please see my link in #650. It's pretty clear what the connection between race and Planned Parenthood is.Disgusting.

700 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:34:19pm

re: #696 Basho

Meh... today is Obama's second full day in office. Give him a break. Many of the greatest US Presidents weren't very knowledgeable in those areas when they started out.

Anyway, that's a distraction. I'm just happy of Obama's outreach to the scientific community.

Did you or any of the 52% give Bush a break. Piss off.

701 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:34:30pm

re: #686 HoosierHoops

I loved that movie! I liked where everything was cured by spraying windex on it...

Show of hands...who tried it?

702 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:34:50pm

re: #692 SWPaul

That makes it my back yard, because they would look at Ft. Meade. Thank you, but no. On the other hand, perhaps we should ask O if he thinks we could use the Lincoln Bedroom for the task.

703 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #697 RedPepper

The same New York Times that would not publish a piece by Sen. McCain during the recent campaign? That New York Times?

I am shocked, shocked ...

And the same one that leaked information about spy programs.
And the one that downplayed the Holocaust.
I could go on.

704 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:03pm
705 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:23pm

re: #690 alegrias

* * *
Which scientific "community" you talking about?
You are incredibly naive if you think there's 100% group think in science.

That is what O is trying to foster, group think. What he chooses to fund shows how partisan this really is.

706 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:28pm

re: #684 ArmyWife

I vote he is just dumb. He is proving it repeatedly. Like "umm...hey Greg, what was this that I just signed and what does it mean?"

maybe this dumb?

707 Soona'  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:35pm

re: #658 Basho

*shrug*
If I don't have to hear the US President saying both evolution and intelligent design should be taught in class or sign a bill to have the federal government interfere in a Schiavoish case then I'll be happy.

Surely, Obama giving support to the scientific community has no party lines?

I don't think you have any idea what liberals mean by intellectual. To them it means that they'll use the ingnorance if NEA taught people to keep all the "scientific" shams going ad naseum until the government has control of all technological endeavors. They'll use their so-called science as just another scheme to take away as much freedom and liberty from individuals as they're using the economy now.

708 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:40pm

re: #688 NYCHardhat

What is more important to you? Al Qaeda or Global Warming?

The sun going supernova!@ What's with the appeal to emotion?

709 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:35:51pm

re: #683 loppyd

It takes a criminal to know a criminal.

* * * *
Hi Loppy!

You should read for yourself what Frank Sinatra's butler had to say about the Kennedys!

George Jacobs was a former Navy enlisted man who became butler and factotum to Frankie, and boy does he dish about all the Kennedys in details too disgusting to relate.

The book is called "Mr. S" by George Jacobs. Not great literature, but priceless where the Kennedy's laundry is exposed.

710 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:36:07pm

re: #700 NYCHardhat

Did you or any of the 52% give Bush a break. Piss off.

I voted for McCain. Piss off.

711 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:36:12pm

Just thinking about the grossly unfair treatment W received regarding his supposed racism. Pretty nervy for the left to try and pin that one on him.

712 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:36:35pm
713 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:37:13pm

re: #710 Basho

I voted for McCain. Piss off.

I voted against Obama.

714 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:37:24pm

re: #707 Soona'

I don't think you have any idea what liberals mean by intellectual. To them it means that they'll use the ingnorance if NEA taught people to keep all the "scientific" shams going ad naseum until the government has control of all technological endeavors. They'll use their so-called science as just another scheme to take away as much freedom and liberty from individuals as they're using the economy now.

Yeah... when Obama takes over the technological world, then I'll worry... I'm not prone to conspiratorial reasoning.

715 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:37:51pm

re: #704 Iron Fist

Or if he thinks there are no politics or agendas in the "scientific" community. Especially in the followers of Glowbull Warming. After all, that "science" is so fucking settled that they can't even predict what the weather will be like two weeks from now, but they know with absolute certainty what it will be 100 years from now.

Christ, what a racket. I guess it's a good gig if you can get it.

Well, while I agree we don't know enough to tell if it will be warming, cooling, or which effect people have on it (if any), we might not be able to tell the weather a couple of days from now (and we can't; it is chaotic at the 2-3 day time scale), but we can tell the average temperature next January will be a lot lower (in the northern hemisphere) than the average temperature next June.

I do support research, but honest research that compares different models and sees how well they fit the data we have, NOT how well the models fit the current political ideas.

716 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:37:52pm

Good afternoon, Lizards.

I hope that when George and Laura got home to the ranch, they did the equivalent of kicking off their shoes, racing down the hall, and jumping on their bed, giggling at FINALLY being free of the ugliness they had to endure.

I wish them every happiness.

717 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:38:06pm

re: #696 Basho

and another sleeper breaks cover.....

can i get a verification on the green smoke release?

718 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:38:22pm

re: #646 opinionated

re: #604 Optimizer


If you believe that the pairing makes sense based on population worldwide that it certainly makes no sense based on the population of the US where Jews STILL outnumber Muslims.

It could be Obama was engaging in wishful thinking and telegraphing his immigration policies.

I wasn't saying it "makes sense" per se, just that the pairing would not have to be in order of % population in the US, and that therefore departing from that order need not mean that one religion or the other is necessarily denigrated. If anything I think I'm saying that it might imply actual recognition that there is a real global conflict going on between Christians and Muslims - and suggest that it is a bigger deal that the conflict between Israel and its neighbors (by virtue of the number of people involved being greater). In short, it might have been a veiled (or inadvertant?) recognition of the poorly-named "War on Terror".

And I'm not a guy who saw much to feel good about in that speech. (Actually, parts of it worry me greatly).

719 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:38:32pm

re: #717 redc1c4

and another sleeper breaks cover.....

can i get a verification on the green smoke release?

throw the willy pete

720 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:39:04pm

re: #708 Basho

The sun going supernova!@ What's with the appeal to emotion?

The sun won't go supernova, but it will swell up to a red giant in a few billion years, and then we'll really have global warming. But there is nothing we can do on Earth to make a difference.

721 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:39:10pm

re: #688 NYCHardhat

What is more important to you? Al Qaeda or Global Warming?

False dichotomy.

722 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:39:26pm
723 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:39:40pm

re: #719 NYCHardhat

throw the willy pete

Um . . .thats now apparently a war crime - just ask Falk.

724 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:39:50pm

re: #696 Basho

I'm giving O just as much of a break as the Left gave Bush this day 8 years ago. His revealed policies are not good, and I don't want them.

725 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:05pm

re: #723 Creeping Eruption

Um . . .thats now apparently a war crime - just ask Falk.

Thats fucked up.

726 BingoBunny  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:19pm

Obama tells us is no need to drill for oil because that would take 10 years to come online and start making a difference .. but NASA a scientist (who should be a ex employee) tells us give him the gold and he'll save the whole world in 4 years from global warming.

/maybe there will be a slight delay for the ice age..

727 Taqiyyotomist  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:24pm

Downdinging was never so satisfying. Thanks, Basho.

"I wasn't born with enough middle fingers."--some satanist rock star

-Taq

728 loppyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:25pm

re: #709 alegrias

* * * *
Hi Loppy!

You should read for yourself what Frank Sinatra's butler had to say about the Kennedys!

George Jacobs was a former Navy enlisted man who became butler and factotum to Frankie, and boy does he dish about all the Kennedys in details too disgusting to relate.

The book is called "Mr. S" by George Jacobs. Not great literature, but priceless where the Kennedy's laundry is exposed.

Hi there!

I'll inquire with my library - you know I'm always looking for Kennedy dirt. :)

729 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:40pm

re: #717 redc1c4

and another sleeper breaks cover.....

can i get a verification on the green smoke release?

Is that the color of the smoke when a troll is barbecued?

730 alegrias  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:40pm

re: #710 Basho

I voted for McCain. Piss off.

* * **
FYI, McCain ranked fifth from the bottom of his Annapolis Academy class, nearly failing in engineering!

But you're right he probably knows more about science than Pres. Obama.

731 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:47pm

re: #725 NYCHardhat

Thats fucked up.

WP, me or Falk?

732 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:40:54pm
733 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:41:30pm

O brew me no beer
With artificial bubbles
Those carbonated beers of today
At Utica Club
We still take the trouble
To age beer the natural way
Utica Club
U.C.!

734 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:41:34pm

I should clarify an earlier comment --- when I said "all about the money" I don't literally mean that's the only factor. I do think it's a significant factor, though. You have professors doing near worthless work (but they think they're great...) and they hear Democrats saying, "we love your work! Have more money" versus Republicans, "you are a waste, we're taking back the money".

Oh, and about academics being impartial... yeah right. The people I've met have been far from truthful. I wouldn't have known unless I worked with them, to be honest.

Again, I think it boils down to whether you believe we should waste much of the money on bad people to attract the few good people.

735 NYCHardhat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:41:55pm

re: #731 Creeping Eruption

WP, me or Falk?

WP being a war crime

736 vagabond trader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:41:56pm

"Distraction" the new leftspeak term for "I'm a giddy, obfuscating arsehole who hasn't clue one on how to debate or answer a question head on."

737 Mr Spiffy  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:42:31pm

I think there’s now a consensus between the White House and the Congress that the future of the country relies on science,” Lubell said. “The nation is in very bad shape, and it will take science and technology to get out of the mess.

Makes me think about the technocracy on Krypton.

738 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:42:39pm

re: #720 Kosh's Shadow

The sun won't go supernova, but it will swell up to a red giant in a few billion years, and then we'll really have global warming. But there is nothing we can do on Earth to make a difference.

Hopefully in 3 Billion years we can get SUV's outlawed...They are the real reason the Sun will turn into a red Giant..Facts are facts..
/must I?

739 Zimriel  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:43:22pm

I highly recommend reading Mencius Moldbug today. A sampling -

What my mother found at [Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy] was a sort of giant, Potomac-shaped hog-trough, dispensing a billion or two a year to grunting Beltway bandits packed shoulder-to-shoulder around a vast open sewer of hot, juicy, delicious cash. This is, of course, the iron triangle of Washington fame. (I think the triangle should include at the very least the press, making it a square, which would let us add Andrew Revkin to our fantasy arrest list.
...
To understand the impact of increased CO2, we need to know the climate sensitivity. Q: how can scientists, at least Popperian scientists, evaluate the climate sensitivity? A: they can't. There is no falsifiable procedure which can estimate climate sensitivity.

To estimate climate sensitivity, all you need is an accurate model of Earth's atmosphere. Likewise, to get to Alpha Centauri, all you have to do is jump very high. The difference between the computing power we have, and the computing power we would need in order to accurately model Earth's atmosphere, is comparable to the difference between my vertical leap and the distance to Alpha Centauri. For all practical purposes, climate modeling is the equivalent of earthquake prediction: an unsolvable problem.

740 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:43:59pm

re: #699 vagabond trader

re: #668 Optimizer

Please see my link in #650. It's pretty clear what the connection between race and Planned Parenthood is.Disgusting.

Yikes! Hadn't seen that before. To be fair, though, organizations change over time and one should really look at their modern practices and policies (which I'm not up on, BTW) to judge them.

741 RedPepper  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:44:37pm

re: #720 Kosh's Shadow

The sun won't go supernova, but it will swell up to a red giant in a few billion years, and then we'll really have global warming. But there is nothing we can do on Earth to make a difference.

I'm betting on a supervolcano providing a period of global cooling well before that.

Speaking of things we can't do anything about.

742 Teh Flowah  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:44:49pm

I don't think you can say that scientists are only kissing ass for grant money. If so, they would kiss the ass of every president, not just Obama.

I do happen to agree with the scientists though. In terms of things like stem cell research, it'll be good. I've always preferred the liberal attitude towards science that basically says "go buck wild." It's a free market approach. :)

I am worried about the space program though, since the NASA director is.
I. Want. The. Moon.
I. Want. Mars.
I. Want. The. Universe.

743 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:45:43pm

re: #723 Creeping Eruption

Um . . .thats now apparently a war crime - just ask Falk.

falk him.......

/M15 out!

744 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:45:57pm

re: #712 buzzsawmonkey

I seem to recall a line from the recent campaign: "Obama. Not ready to lead."

Nobody forced him to open his fat yap on this subject one day into his term. If he can't stand the heat, maybe he should have thought before he spoke.

Well, he seems to be getting a lot of praise from both side of aisle so far. The fringes are the ones bringing "the heat".

745 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:45:57pm

re: #574 buzzsawmonkey

There is no reason at all to get the government involved in determining the content of culture.

Why, sure there is; to make sure it's the correct kind of culture.

For instance, Hope & Change: The Musical - I smell (subsidized) Tony Award!

746 redc1c4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:46:49pm

re: #729 Kosh's Shadow

Is that the color of the smoke when a troll is barbecued?

Smoke and Pyro

White Smoke---Covering/Screening only
Yellow Smoke---Designated target (Fire at will)
Purple Smoke---All after is sarcastic
Green Smoke---Kook Identifed
White Star Cluster---All Clear
Yellow Star Cluster---Cease-fire
Red Star Cluster---Danger

747 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:47:40pm

Addendum: when I say "you have professors doing near worthless work (but they think they're great...)" that's my perception of my advisor. I haven't evaluated the work of other professors around me, but I assume my advisor isn't the only one like this...

And of course, the statements about Democrats saying "we love you" versus Republicans saying "you're a waste" are exaggerations, but you get the idea.

748 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:48:08pm

re: #726 BingoBunny

Obama tells us is no need to drill for oil because that would take 10 years to come online and start making a difference .. but NASA a scientist (who should be a ex employee) tells us give him the gold and he'll save the whole world in 4 years from global warming.

/maybe there will be a slight delay for the ice age..

The same was said during the Clinton administration to not pursue domestic production. Now it IS 10 years later, and having started then would have made a difference to the oil price run up we had several months ago.

749 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:48:31pm

re: #560 nikis-knight

re: #558 Silhouette

Decapitation with a knife? That is rather disturbing to think about.

O.J. - It makes me shudder.

750 Soona'  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:50:18pm

re: #708 Basho

The sun going supernova!@ What's with the appeal to emotion?


You know, AQ. That group that killed three thousand Amercians on 9-11-01. Or have you and all you liberal/troofing friends forgotten about that. Oh yeah. That's right. The zero is in charge. It never really happened, did it?

751 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:50:35pm

re: #744 Basho

McCain is not "both sides".

752 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:52:12pm

re: #708 Basho

re: #688 NYCHardhat

What is more important to you? Al Qaeda or Global Warming?


The sun going supernova!@ What's with the appeal to emotion?

Supernova is a childish answer - what, are you 5 years old?
And what is emotional about judging Al Qaeda? Seems like simple observation of bodies jumping from burning buildings is all that's needed to come to an un-emotional conclusion. Running around like chicken little about global warming seems the emotional response to me. Especially since weathermen can't accurately predict the weather next week.......

753 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:52:17pm

re: #741 RedPepper

I'm betting on a supervolcano providing a period of global cooling well before that.

Speaking of things we can't do anything about.

If we are doing that then why not talk about the galactic black hole eating all of the milky way galaxy we are in.

754 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:52:29pm

re: #744 Basho

Well, he seems to be getting a lot of praise from both side of aisle so far. The fringes are the ones bringing "the heat".

Well, I'm the one who mentioned "cheap heat" yesterday. There is a pile of what I consider pretty petty or out-on-the-limb complaints about Obama... instead of concentrating on the few important things that will likely be done over time.

For example, the abortion decision (i.e., policies wrt family planning funds spent overseas as foreign aid.) Bush made it a big deal to ban abortion from being allowed as a discussion option, while Obama has now made it a big deal to overturn that decision. Domestic supporters of each President want to make it a big deal... but is it? I suspect that any woman's decision right now somewhere in a distant land is likely totally oblivious to these decisions made by a US President.

755 kcladderman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:53:28pm

re: #712 buzzsawmonkey

I seem to recall a line from the recent campaign: "Obama. Not ready to lead."

Nobody forced him to open his fat yap on this subject one day into his term. If he can't stand the heat, maybe he should have thought before he spoke.

In fact didn't he assure us he would be ready to Rule on his first day in office?

756 Lincolntf  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:53:40pm

re: #744 Basho

He gets praise from some of those on the right who are looking to curry favor (and get invited to all those fancy par-tays, of course) with the O. No serious conservative can possibly agree with Obama on many major issues.
The dude gets into Office, takes a look at the state of the world and decides that the first thing he's gonna do is make sure that there are more Islamic terrorists out there on the loose. If that's the sign of a deep thinker, then give me an undereducated hayseed any day of the week.

757 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:55:34pm

re: #730 alegrias

* * **
FYI, McCain ranked fifth from the bottom of his Annapolis Academy class, nearly failing in engineering!

But you're right he probably knows more about science than Pres. Obama.

I didn't call Obama a scientist. I said I'm glad Obama seems to be accepting intellectualism into his administration. I was worried he was a left-wing whacko like everyone else when he was running for president.

758 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:55:53pm
759 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:55:57pm

re: #746 redc1c4

Smoke and Pyro

White Smoke---Covering/Screening only
Yellow Smoke---Designated target (Fire at will)
Purple Smoke---All after is sarcastic
Green Smoke---Kook Identifed
White Star Cluster---All Clear
Yellow Star Cluster---Cease-fire
Red Star Cluster---Danger

Thank you.
I wonder if that explains the end of Frank Zappa's "Let's Make the Water Turn Black":
Ronny's in the Army now and Kenny's taking pills
Oh, how they yearn to see a bomber burn
Color flashing thunder crashing dynamite machine
Wait till the fire turns green, wait till the fire turns green.

760 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:56:30pm
761 mattm  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:57:03pm

How long before "Inconvenient Truth" becomes fact.

762 MacGregor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:57:44pm

Because of the particular sciences defended here, I think this is very subtle bds. I concur other sciences mentioned in this thread are more worthy for commercial and military pursuits. imho

763 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:58:58pm

re: #752 LGoPs

Supernova is a childish answer - what, are you 5 years old?
And what is emotional about judging Al Qaeda? Seems like simple observation of bodies jumping from burning buildings is all that's needed to come to an un-emotional conclusion. Running around like chicken little about global warming seems the emotional response to me. Especially since weathermen can't accurately predict the weather next week.......

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

764 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:59:11pm
765 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:59:22pm
766 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:02:16pm

re: #754 freetoken

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

767 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:04:09pm

re: #750 Soona'

You know, AQ. That group that killed three thousand Amercians on 9-11-01. Or have you and all you liberal/troofing friends forgotten about that. Oh yeah. That's right. The zero is in charge. It never really happened, did it?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

768 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:06:45pm

re: #83 Charles

While some of this is no doubt due to expectations of increased funding, I think there's more to it than that, and that some scientists do have valid criticisms. The Bush administration was pretty heavy handed, and not always very smart in matters of science.

Agreed. Scientists seem to be looking forward to a period of reduced political interference.

769 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:10:58pm

re: #768 Jimmah

Agreed. Scientists seem to be looking forward to a period of reduced political interference.

By what O has proposed to fund less interference is not going to happen. Just a change in how the interference is applied is what is in store.

770 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:12:21pm

re: #756 Lincolntf

He gets praise from some of those on the right who are looking to curry favor (and get invited to all those fancy par-tays, of course) with the O. No serious conservative can possibly agree with Obama on many major issues.
The dude gets into Office, takes a look at the state of the world and decides that the first thing he's gonna do is make sure that there are more Islamic terrorists out there on the loose. If that's the sign of a deep thinker, then give me an undereducated hayseed any day of the week.

Well, Ex-President Bush gave his word that Obama understood the threat posed by Islamic terrorists. I have no reason to suspect he was lying.

771 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:13:24pm
772 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:13:35pm

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

My late father, who worked at one of the national laboratories, was quite candid about the need to tack to the prevailing winds when drafting grant proposals. This has been true for some 30-40 years at minimum, and only a liar (on the inside) or a fool (on the outside) does not know this.

Given that it is scientists trying to explain the desire to understand the unknown, to politicians who will never admit to not knowing anything of significance, that is not very strange.

773 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:14:59pm
774 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:17:08pm

re: #771 Iron Fist

What's changed yur mind? I'll grant that he hasn't nuked an American city, conficated all guns, or required every woman to have an abortion, but he's less than 48 hours into the job. And he's already working to let khalid sheikh mohammed off the hook for 9-11. That has to be casting terror into the hearts of al Qaeda hiding in their caves in Waziristan.

Fair point. But I'm praising his science based decisions. I especially love some of his appointments in that regard. Chu was a great choice, for example.

775 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:18:35pm

re: #773 buzzsawmonkey

It's possible. I'll call Obama a dhimmi and/or useful idiot when he deserves it.

776 LEGION  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:19:23pm

So when does this son of a Commie start paying my mortgage? Should I start sending the invoices to the Multi-colored House? I've been out of the loop the last few days avoiding all news on this suck ass and his syncopates. It's been very refreshing!

777 LEGION  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:22:26pm

He deserves it Basho- way back since he went back on his promises during the campaigns- just his associations make him trash. The volume of his anti-American thoughs and actions are LEGION! I'm surprised at you, well you are a newbie.

778 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:28:38pm
779 Lincolntf  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:28:45pm

re: #770 Basho

Understanding the threat and actually doing something about it are two different things. My frank analysis of Obama's Gitmo surrender is that he chose to mollify his Code Pink-esque supporters at the expense of our national security.

780 shane  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:34:03pm

Science has been extremely political. Look at what Jim Hansen has been doing concerning the temperature data. But thats not the half of it. Someone has actually changed the historical data sets at NASA, and low and behold, that data is controlled by Jim Hansen. So ya, the science has been political, but it is about to get far worse.

781 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:39:56pm

re: #778 Iron Fist

I saw an interview with his last night. He supports nuclear power.

782 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:40:00pm

Regardless of whether the scientists in these articles have a point and the Bush administration was hostile to science, I have to admit this is one part of Obama's platform that I like. I do believe America needs to put a lot more emphasis on scientific R&D.

783 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:41:05pm

re: #779 Lincolntf

McCain would have closed Gitmo anyway. Bush wanted to close it eventually. I can't fault Obama for that decision.

784 freetoken  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:41:07pm

re: #780 shane

Why do you believe either of those allegations?

Have newbusters or climateaudit gone through the trouble of discussing their allegations (unfounded as far as I can tell) with either NASA, or submitted them to the open scientific literature?

785 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:56:23pm

Someone earlier wrote:

"Agreed. Scientists seem to be looking forward to a period of reduced political interference."

In my experience, however, they don't mind pushing politics as long as it furthers their agenda. They're people, too. There's a notion that academics are "more truthful" than the average because their whole job is to seek the truth. My experiences in academia rudely woke me up from this. I wouldn't be surprised if academics are, on average, less truthful than the average person.

One thing to be VERY careful of is how funding gets around. For example, right now there is funding for energy-efficient or "green" research. I've noticed my advisor, who previously had never mentioned the need for "green research", talking about ways to reduce energy expenditure. Does my advisor really believe green energy is really the way to go? Maybe... but I think the money is a bigger drive. If you start doing green research, you can cash in on a new source of funds.

Note how this can create a really big problem when you start talking about "consensus" with scientists. If I start a very large fund for X, scientists will start talking about how great X is to get the research money. Whether or not that could eventually form a consensus of scientists would be an interesting experiment :)

786 grahamski  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:59:00pm

Good thing they are not white construction workers, or they would be out of a job...

787 Keyboard  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:07:34pm

Addendum: I said "right now there is funding for energy-efficient or 'green' research." There has been for some time, so it's not like we just started funding green research, and my advisor suddenly focused on it. I didn't mean to give that impression.

But given everything I know about my advisor, I really wonder whether they did it because they believe in it, or because it helps to publish papers (either through funding or by impressing your peers that believe in it, peers that will review your papers and decide whether they are publishable or not).

And if I see it with my advisor, I imagine it happens with others. How widespread, I can't say.

788 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:23:51pm

re: #758 Iron Fist


I'm sorry, but I don't understand why anybody takes the global warmists seriously. God knows they don't really act like they take themselves too seriously. Or maybe it is just that they believe that they are that important. And China is that important.

And that the United States must be destroyed. That one I'm certain that they believe, but I don't believe for a minute that the reasons the give are the real reasons that they feel that way.

I agree with you that it is stupid to the extreme to have this discussion without participation of China, India, and so on. They obtained their industry from "us" without having to go through the industrial revolution in the West, and they have stolen or been given much of the technology without paying a cent for the related development costs.

However when you translate that into dismissal of the concept that 6+ billion humans (take a guess how many it will be for your grandchildren) can't have an effect on weather, then you confuse politics with science.

This argument can go on, legitimately, for a long time (or until it no longer matters), but to dismiss the impact of humans on the planet is (to use your words) fucking stupid.

For example, history in the form of our successors in the distant future will show this period as the greatest time of extinction of life forms on the planet since the dinosaurs disappeared, and that can most definitely be attributed to humans, in my lifetime.

You have the wrong reasons for not taking what you don't want to hear, seriously. Try to see if you have other reasons instead.

789 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:44:55pm

B-but, scientists are infallible! Everything they say is true! Because it's science!

790 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:47:03pm
791 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:48:43pm

re: #782 Charles

Regardless of whether the scientists in these articles have a point and the Bush administration was hostile to science, I have to admit this is one part of Obama's platform that I like. I do believe America needs to put a lot more emphasis on scientific R&D.

The physicists are just pissed off that the hadron collider is not in America. Otherwise, science has progressed just fine under the Bush admin. The stem cells issue is a canard -- private industry could still fund embryonic sc research, and the the government ban was not on the research itself, but a ban on *funding* *embryonic* sc research. And then there is the issue with the power grid. Republicans have never opposed this. It has always been the environmentalist whackos who opposed new power lines and nuclear power. Republicans have championed these things.

Other than that, during the Bush administration, computer technology has grown by leaps and bounds, we have new drugs on the market, no slow down in scientific growth. Scientists just think Obama is sexy, nothing more.

792 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:49:51pm

re: #790 taxfreekiller


Being smart does not mean you know a f'n thing.

Knowing a lot of things doesn't mean you are smart.

793 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:55:18pm
794 Lincolntf  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:55:59pm

re: #783 Basho

You know that?
I doubt very highly that McCain would have chosen to release terrorists in order to satisfy his "base". Alibi for Obama all you want (I'm not much of a down-dinger, so you don't have to worry about that), but pretending that you have the ability to see the future in an alternate Universe is hardly a credible defense for Obama's capitulation.

795 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:56:53pm

re: #792 Globular Cluster

Knowing a lot of things doesn't mean you are smart.

Knowing nothing means you are stupid.

796 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:58:27pm
797 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:59:08pm
798 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:00:03pm

re: #793 taxfreekiller

The extinctions have already happened and continue, moron.

799 DisgustingOratory  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:00:37pm

Oh I am so happy about the embryo stem cells. They can cure anything, you know. Its never been illegal, and just look at how the worldwide medical industry has invested in this technology and produced so many miraculous cures. Thank God Obama will throw more money at it. The results should be even gooder.

I am a Libertarian Independent and I have always despised how those hillbilly Jesus-freaks have kept all the benifits of aborted fetuses from us. They are afraid of science and knowledge. Finally, now we can teach our children in schools that the Earth is round, not flat. We can teach them what a rubber is truly for. Finally, now that the ignorant extreme conservatives have been defeated we can let the truth be heard about the damage we are doing to our Mother Earth and Goddess Gaia.

Look at all the science that has been in desperate need of government funding.. homeopathy, antigravity, pyramid hats, quantum chiropractic therapy... Just imagine, what other science have they been keeping from us?

I disagree with Obama on many things because I am a Free Thinker Libertarian Independent, but I admit I have a case of hopenchange here.

///////////////////////

800 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:01:08pm
801 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:02:38pm
802 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:02:42pm

re: #797 taxfreekiller

#795

takes one to know one

Gee I guess, I got momentarily pulled into your gutter. I apologize. It was my fault.

803 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:09:48pm
804 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:10:09pm

I also notice that you like to ding instead of debate (if you can call calling NASA commies, debate). This is what I call a dingaling.

Where's stretch? We need a civil interlocutor here.

805 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:11:03pm

re: #795 Naso Tang

Knowing nothing means you are stupid.

So are you saying that you're stupid?

806 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:12:50pm
807 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:14:22pm
808 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:15:04pm

I am really appalled to see the comments up thread concerning contraception, and I must conclude that these were predominately made by men. Contraception is not cheap for women, and the forms of contraception that are cheap are also the most likely to fail. These are the over-the-counter contraception such as condoms and spermicides. When you start getting into better forms of birth-control, the price goes up considerably and insurance doesn't help much at all. If you don't have insurance- good luck getting it. Most require a prescription and/or regular doctor visits. Cheap, my ass!

As for sex education- this too does need improvement, though I highly doubt we'll see the improvement that is most needed- placing sexual decision in a context of personal economic stability for the individuals involved. Out of wedlock births cost the woman considerably, especially if her mate isn't honorable enough to support his child. Even when he is, the economic burden on both parents is often ties shifted unto the public dole. But nobody ever considers this- I'm amazed at times at the look on peoples faces when I bring in the economic angle on sexual discussion. Sure, people can discuss abstinence with the kids. But the moral argument concerning sex is more a topic of the failure of moral institutions than it is public education. Discuss with the kids how unplanned pregnancies can severely damage their life ambitions and cripple them economically for their most viable years and you might just see a turn-around. NOT that I think this will be incorporated into any sex-ed programs, but it would be nice if some would think a little more on the issue and how it really does effect all of us when babies are having babies instead of knee-jerk reactions such as I read up-thread.

And this doesn't even touch on sexual diseases- which is another ball of wax. How expensive is it for us to have the kids getting HIV and spreading it and other diseases? This costs us in various ways that I would think I need not bother explaining since it's self-evident enough. Feh.

809 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:17:21pm
810 right Brain  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:17:39pm

"60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, issued a statement claiming that the Bush administration had systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals"

Yes, and those policy goals were to prevent specious grants given to scientists to blow on whatever flip theory they fancied that day. Kudos to President Bush for standing up to Academia. Three robots put on Mars during the Bush administration: name the other country that was able to do that.

None.

811 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:20:51pm

Rabies - don't let it happen to you.

812 Richard1935  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:31:06pm

The wisdom of Asimov -

Consider some of what the history of science teaches.
First, since science originated as the product of men and not as a revelation, it may develop further as the continuing product of men. If a scientific law is not an eternal truth but merely a generalization which, to some man or group of men, conveniently described a set of observations, then to some other man or group of men, another generalization might seem even more convenient. Once it is grasped that scientific truth is limited and not absolute, scientific truth becomes capable of further refinement. Until that is understood, scientific research has no meaning.
Second, it reveals some important truths about the humanity of scientists. Of all the stereotypes that have plagued men of science, surely one above all has wrought harm. Scientists can be pictured as “evil,” “mad,” “cold,” “self-centered,” “absent-minded,” even “square” and yet survive easily. Unfortunately, they are usually pictured as “right” and that can distort the picture of science past redemption.
Scientists share with all human beings the great and inalienable privilege of being, on occasion, wrong; of being egregiously wrong sometimes, even monumentally wrong. What is worse still, they are sometimes perversely and persistently wrong-headed. And since that is true, science itself can be wrong in this aspect or that.
With the possible wrongness of science firmly in mind, the student of science today is protected against disaster. When an individual theory collapses, it need not carry with it one’s faith and hope and innocent joy. Once we learn to expect theories to collapse and to be supplanted by more useful generalizations, the collapsing theory becomes not the gray remnant of a broken today, but the herald of a new and brighter tomorrow.
Third, by following the development of certain themes in science, we can experience the joy and excitement of the grand battle against the unknown. The wrong turnings, the false clues, the elusive truth nearly captured half a century before its time, the unsung prophet, the false authority, the hidden assumption and cardboard syllogism, all add to the suspense of the struggle and make what we slowly gain through the study of the history of science worth more than what we might quickly gain by a narrow glance at the growing edge alone.
Isaac Asimov – Adding A Dimension

813 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:32:49pm

re: #808 Sharmuta

Point taken, but what you're really pointing out is the existence of a cost/benefit trade-off. Higher quality costs more. But regardless of the choice you make, the price range varies from "cheap" (which is still pretty effective) to "affordable" (for the very best). Meaning you don't have to be Paris Hilton to afford it. Certainly quality contraception is not outside the financial means of average people.

As to the original subject, we can also make note that the quotes given are by a physicist, and ALL the things he talks about are outside his area of expertise.

814 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:39:46pm

re: #813 Optimizer

Certainly quality contraception is not outside the financial means of average people.

Yes it is! Do you know how much the pill costs per month even with insurance? This drives lower income women towards the over-the-counter contraception which, as I said, are the forms more likely to fail.

815 Irenike  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:41:08pm

As long as the government doles out the money to scientists, the scientists will be beholden to whatever the fashionable political outlook is. The only way around this is to support private research, and let private, free market money fund scientific research. Look at computer technology. The major leaps and bounds that we all benefit from today have been almost entirely funded by the marketplace. If government had been in charge of all computer research since the 1980's, we'd still be working with Radio Shack TRS-80 computers.

All you science-lovers out there who hated Bush's attitude toward science funding, and now like Obama, are making a Faustian bargain.

816 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:42:41pm
817 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:44:28pm

re: #810 right Brain

Three robots put on Mars during the Bush administration: name the other country that was able to do that.

None.

I actually think this is a total waste of money. Much better to spend clams on Hubble-type projects which have very good price/performance. How many theoretical advances came from studying the CMB, or from the Chiandra x-ray observatory, or from Hubble? A ton. How many came from putting a man on the moon? A few droplets.

National is not always a pointless thing, but lets be clear about what we're doing.

Oooh! There's water on Mars. It must mean there's life. Let's spend trillions!

818 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 5:56:22pm
819 MacGregor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:05:03pm

I agree the cycles of glaciation and de-glaciation are caused by dynamics of our solar system and perhaps neighboring celestial bodies. Co2, a beneficent byproduct of warming always peaks before glaciation. We are lucky to be alive during this de-glaciation and I do not think our existence on a literal carbon pump will circumvent the next glaciation as dictated by solar and planetary cycles.

820 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:10:13pm

re: #808 Sharmuta

Well said and nicely put!

821 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:12:37pm

re: #800 taxfreekiller

your next, me I like CO2

hold your breath avoid CO2 at all cost

Water is necessary for life too. Doesn't mean we can't drown in it...

822 Teh Flowah  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:12:40pm

re: #782 Charles

Regardless of whether the scientists in these articles have a point and the Bush administration was hostile to science, I have to admit this is one part of Obama's platform that I like. I do believe America needs to put a lot more emphasis on scientific R&D.

I would say, hostile in a few respects, not friendly enough in others. I'm sure those in the Space exploration sector would not say he was hostile, or those in the biofuels sector. But certainly, I hope and expect that Obama will be more friendly than Bush has been. Constantly advancing science is what keeps the United States's military strong and economy growing. We used to be the undisputed center for R&D, the brain drain was coming out of all other countries and INTO our country. Now the inverse is true, and it's NOT good for the country. We need to get back on track.

823 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:17:56pm

re: #794 Lincolntf

Obama wants to release the terrorists? Link?

824 Irenike  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:18:59pm

#758 Iron Fist

Amen, dude. My sentiments exactly. Problem is, the true believers of global warming don't give a shit about truth, or about how their policies will actually affect the real world. They change the phrase to "global climate change," look the other way as the Goracle consumes 20 times more energy than the average person, and shrug off the snow in Vegas. They live in a bubble of their own making. When they aren't busy trying to tell me what kind of lightbulbs I can burn, or how much water I can use, they are busy fending off anything that threatens to burst their bubble of illusions, like, oh, the lower than average winter temperatures.

825 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:28:59pm

re: #807 taxfreekiller

So, tell me how wrong the ice cores are and the sun cycles how they have nothing to do with the current climate , you know the easy stuff.

No, you tell us how wrong the ice cores are and,since I doubt you know how to read them, what your sources are and, to be rational, what the counter analyses are.

Ditto for the sun cycles.

The point here is, if you are capable of not being a stealth creationist for a moment, that there is no question that humans are populous and sloppy enough to affect climate. The principle is simple; not everything is brute force. There are factors like "tipping points" and self reinforcing conditions. Real world butterfly effects if you will. We could very well have a mini ice age in the near future, due to warming (whatever the source) if the melting polar ice cap stops the Gulf Stream; but that would cause you to shout "I told you so!, would it not? Ignorance solves all problem, subjectively.

There can be genuine debate about which factors are the most significant. Natural ones (sun cycles have not been identified as significant in this age, but that is science that you disrespect) and non natural ones, if one considers humans non natural.

However to deny that humans can have no effect on the planet is ridiculous and when people like you think the issue is made up by commies in NASA, then we revert to rule by ignorant political emotion.

826 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:35:05pm

re: #817 Globular Cluster

I actually think this is a total waste of money. Much better to spend clams on Hubble-type projects which have very good price/performance. How many theoretical advances came from studying the CMB, or from the Chiandra x-ray observatory, or from Hubble? A ton. How many came from putting a man on the moon? A few droplets.

National is not always a pointless thing, but lets be clear about what we're doing.

Oooh! There's water on Mars. It must mean there's life. Let's spend trillions!

I don't think you would recognize a globular cluster if from a cluster f.....

827 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:43:06pm
828 mazasapa  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:45:09pm

These people aren't scientists, they're bureaucrats. Real scientists don't work for the government.

829 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 6:45:59pm

re: #828 mazasapa

These people aren't scientists, they're bureaucrats. Real scientists don't work for the government.

Richard Feynman might differ with you on that.

830 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:00:11pm
831 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:23:22pm

"Commie scientists with their marxist hypotheses, trotskyite observations and crazy moonbat experiments. Damn them all to hell! Especially them NASA pinko scum.

And if global warming is real then whaddya call this white flaky stuff I just scraped off my driveway? Scotch mist?"/
/

I swear, this sort of stuff is getting to be as silly as the ID/creationist clownery.

832 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:31:31pm

re: #831 Jimmah

A good end for tonight.

Goodnight

833 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:33:57pm

re: #825 Naso Tang

However to deny that humans can have no effect on the planet is ridiculous and when people like you think the issue is made up by commies in NASA, then we revert to rule by ignorant political emotion.

Very well said. Those who care about the republican party need to realise that this sort of science-conspiracy mongering isn't going to help it's fortunes in the coming years. They need this anti-intellectual meme like they need a Jindal/Palin ticket in 2112.

834 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:36:21pm

re: #832 Naso Tang

It's that time for me too.

G'night.

835 lONeLYconservativeinLA  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:38:57pm

I feel like a house fell on me but I am not a witch and I don't live in Kansas? How long until next election?

836 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:42:45pm
837 Zoomie  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:45:32pm

53.03 degF - the USA 2008 mean annual temperature
52.86 degF - the USA average temperature from 1895 to 2008

.17 deg F the difference between 2008 and the average

How can the scientists translate this into run away global you-know-what.
-- data from NOAA's National Climate Data center

FURTHER
Antarctic has about 10% or 1.1 million more sq miles of ice than the '79 - '08 average, today. NASA/NOAA National Snow Ice Data Center
AND
N. Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 07-08 was the highest since records began in 1966. Rutgers U.

Government scientists are in need of some humility and functional peer review. Peer review on global warming is similar to Moody's and Standard and Poor's evaluation of Lehman, and Citibank bonds.

838 foxsecret  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:46:41pm

With the proposed 850- 1 trillion dollar Pork....Eh...stimulus bill congress will pass, I cannot imagine scientist flocking for grants.

839 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:05:02pm
840 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:54pm

re: #826 Naso Tang

I don't think you would recognize a globular cluster if from a cluster f.....

Good argument.

841 Globular Cluster  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:50pm

re: #829 Charles

Richard Feynman might differ with you on that.

Low-hanging fruit. Post 791, higher-fruit.

842 shane  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:19:01pm

to: #784

Why yes they have published the data and yes Nasa admitted they had an error. As a matter of fact the scientists published the data showing Nasa was wrong and many liberal news outlets even published articles about it. You can look it up on google bro. It happened.

843 Westward Ho  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 12:45:26am

re: #86 jcm

Let's see....

Fetal Stem cells, the least promising of the stem cell research, get federal funding.
.


All the literature I have read suggests the very opposite, stem cells are the easiest ways to harvest Pluripotent cells
Please provide links backing your statement - I am curious.

844 Gretchen  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 7:22:20am

In regards to stem cell research, please correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Bush administration ban it, or just refuse federal funding (except for a few existing stem cell lines). There is a huge difference. I don't think my tax dollars should be used for any scientific research period. If something is promising there should be plenty of investors willing to fund it. I wonder how much the scientific community spends on lobbying efforts and the like. If government would get out of the business of funding all sorts of things we'd be better off as a nation, and there would be no threat of politicization science.

As for global warming - puleeze, that's really a religion now, not science.

845 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 8:11:03am

re: #844 Gretchen

I don't think my tax dollars should be used for any scientific research period.

One of my scientist brothers works for the Department of Defense. That is clearly an appropriate use of tax dollars. One could make a case for other appropriate uses, but this one is basic. Check out what's happening at our National Laboratories.

846 shane  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 8:17:59am

To Naso Tang #804 and #825:

Global Warming is open to debate. That is really the answer and not the answer put forward by the likes of James Hansen at NASA. I have nothing against putting less polutants into the atmosphere, as a matter of fact I would consider a good idea because I don't care for how they smell. But what is an issue is the "science" of global warming and the manipulation of data. A scientist doesn't care about the result as much as he cares about how he got the result. He can be a little dissappointed that it didn't fit his hypothesis. That is what real science is about. What has happened in Climate Science is a travesty and it is being perpetuated by NASA. I say this because James Hansen is the guy in charge of that division and he has made it political and I believe he has falsified data to support his conclusions. How about a drug company that does this? Would you have an issue with that? I actually don't care if Hansen is right, that is irrelivant. He did things that discredit science. Secondly, the policies that he and the other Global warming zealots support do nothing to curb polution. The policies are about a transfer of wealth from countries like us(actually primarily us) to other countries like the African countries. It supports a heavy government hand with no change in outcome other than national controls and a government bueacracy. The data, and the conclusions from the data are certainly questionable. The conclusion were preconcieved and data collected to support the conclusion as well as data ignored that challenged the conclusion. As a scientist, this is detestable. If you are right, you will welcome all criticism and scrutiny and peer review. You will not tamper with data, you won't need to. They have eliminated weather station data from data sets and slowly reduced the number of weather stations that comprise the the data set. This is documented and a real concern to scientists in the field of climate study. As McKitrick so eloquently stated, the data that was wrong set the conclusion for the entire IPCC report. It wasn't just a little flaw. This is NASA's role. Very political and very anti-science. So that is a ding on NASA, and also goes to the heart of your argument. It is not science that those of us disagree with on the subject of Climate Science, it is a lack of science. It is a lack of objectivity and a manipulation of data by people like Hansen that are the issue. Sun spots are not considered by NASA because they run counter to the argument that they support and they simply will not consider anything that doesn't support their current conclusion. That is not science, that is stealth religous zealotry. I type fast so there will be errors, that doesn't change the statement.

847 Basho  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:39:56am

re: #844 Gretchen

I don't think my tax dollars should be used for any scientific research period.

That's why Somalia is a scientific Mecca...

848 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 1:54:09pm

re: #844 Gretchen

I don't think my tax dollars should be used for any scientific research period.

Then get off your computer and don't use the internet. No medicines, microwave ovens- I could go on and on. Your comment is highly ignorant.

849 egal  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 3:59:50pm

# 827 zoomie

.17 deg F the difference between 2008 and the average


- comparison of a single year against the average has no statistical power when there is variability from year-to-year.

Antarctic has about 10% or 1.1 million more sq miles of ice than the '79 - '08 average, today.


- it's the volume that counts, not the area, and you need to look at more than a single year.

N. Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 07-08 was the highest since records began in 1966.


- a single point again.

850 A Balrog of Morgoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:53:58am

Some of you folks appear to be trying really hard to miss the point. Obama says science will be a priority, and some scientists are happy. Hey that's great, since we can all get behind science, right?

Hope. Change. Science!

I am a bit disturbed at the way some of you are so enthusiastic about embryonic stem cell research, and so casually ignore the ethics dilemma such research imposes on those of us who are, contrary to the stereotype, not stealth creationists/ID enthusiasts.

Furthermore, I am also skeptical of the pro-science bonafides of a politician who has embraced the "global warming is settled science, and we have to do something RIGHT NOW!" cult. I'm sorry, but if that is what passes for "science", go ahead and call me a flat-earther.

Perhaps we should wait until we see some specifics before all start fellating each other over the prospect that our new President truly is a Philosopher-King.

851 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:04pm

re: #850 A Balrog of Morgoth

Perhaps we should wait until we see some specifics before all start fellating each other over the prospect that our new President truly is a Philosopher-King.

I don't believe anyone's said that or even implying it.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 447 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1