Jump to bottom

643 comments

1 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:38:58pm

Jive Dinosaur Turkey. Another thread about Obama?

2 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:39:39pm

Gives Thanksgiving a whole new image.

3 Cathypop  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:40:58pm

re: #1 HelloDare

Jive Dinosaur Turkey. Another thread about Obama?


Oshit may be a turkey but he never evolved from T-Rex.

4 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:41:52pm

Now that would be one hell of a BBQ

5 Cathypop  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:42:17pm

re: #4 screaming_eagle

Now that would be one hell of a BBQ

MMMMM-Meat!

6 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:43:04pm

Lizard Hips!
BOOGA BOOGA!

7 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:45:09pm

How th' heck do they know what a T-Rex's call sounded like?

8 USBeast  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:45:29pm

re: #3 Cathypop

Oshit may be a turkey but he never evolved from T-Rex.

But it's possible that he evolved into T Rex.

9 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:45:39pm

Give that turkey a stimulus.

10 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:46:47pm
11 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:47:00pm
12 Daisy  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:47:46pm

So interesting .. I love observing flocks of turkeys walking .. (lots here in upstate NY) and have thought they look like tribal peoples moving through the woods. Now I'll think of them as herds (or whatever) of dinosaurs (did he say "theorapters"?) out for a purposeful stroll.

13 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:47:55pm
14 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:48:21pm

re: #2 IslandLibertarian

Gives Thanksgiving a whole new image.

Yes, one feels a lot less guilty about the turkey!

15 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:48:22pm

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

Given T-Rex's appetite, it probably sounded very much like "gobble-gobble-gobble."

LOL!

16 Daisy  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:48:41pm

Ah ... off to make plans for dinner. Later Lizards ..

17 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:48:45pm

sexy lizard hips

18 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:49:11pm

When he is walking down the hall, the background music really could have been bow bow ba bow wow, now couldn't it?

19 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:49:22pm
20 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:49:31pm

I bet dinosaurs were delicious.

21 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:49:36pm

re: #17 FrogMarch

sexy lizard hips

That'd make a good nic.

22 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:49:58pm

Leftover Thanksgiving T-Rex Casserole

This tasty T-Rex casserole recipe is made with leftover T-Rex, leftover stuffing and gravy, and a little cranberry sauce for topping.
Cook Time: 30 minutes
Ingredients:

* 4 cups prepared T-Rex stuffing
* 2 cups cooked cut up or sliced T-Rex
* 1 3/4 to 2 cups prepared T-Rex gravy
* 1/3 cup jellied or whole cranberry sauce, cubed

Preparation:
Butter bottom and sides of 2-quart baking dish. Arrange half of the stuffing in bottom of dish. Add half of the T-Rex then half of the gravy. Repeat layers. Top with cubes of cranberry sauce. Bake at 350° for 30 minutes

23 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:50:19pm

Another thought - if the Dinosaur shared intelligence quotients with the Turkey, the extinction thing might get a bit more clear.

24 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:51:22pm

another another tought - if turkey's have lizard hips, should we really be eating them, fellow Honcos?

25 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:51:35pm
26 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:52:36pm

how much turkey lips could a turkey hips if a turkey could lip hips?
/weird thought for the day off

27 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:52:53pm

re: #24 ArmyWife

another another tought - if turkey's have lizard hips, should we really be eating them, fellow Honcos?

Don't be inconvenient.

28 Aviator  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:53:19pm

re: #25 taxfreekiller

Domestic Turkey's will stand in a rain looking up with mouths open and drown.

Can we get congress outside in a downpour?

29 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:53:25pm

re: #25 taxfreekiller

Domestic Turkey's will stand in a rain looking up with mouths open and drown.

Snopes says it ain't so.

30 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:53:36pm

Aha, evolutionists...If I'm not mistaken I'd say the T-Rex has a bigger head for it's size than the turkey./

31 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:53:49pm

re: #28 Aviator

Can we get congress outside in a downpour?

Don't we wish

32 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:54:08pm

For most current paleontologists, birds aren't just descendants of dinosaurs, they ARE, in cladistic analysis, dinosaurs.
As a matter of fact, current thinking indicates that the famous fossil bird archeopteryx may be less closely related to modern birds than are the dromaeosaurids (troodon, dromaeosaurs, velociraptors, and their kin).

33 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:55:17pm

re: #32 sillyquiet

For most current paleontologists, birds aren't just descendants of dinosaurs, they ARE, in cladistic analysis, dinosaurs.
As a matter of fact, current thinking indicates that the famous fossil bird archeopteryx may be less closely related to modern birds than are the dromaeosaurids (troodon, dromaeosaurs, velociraptors, and their kin).

Yeh I've seen several shows on that. Same bone structure. They think many even had feathers.

34 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:55:32pm

re: #21 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It would.

35 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:56:41pm

re: #32 sillyquiet

(*muttering to self* ... I can't believe I just up-dinged an Aggie)

(-: ... *duck and run*

36 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:57:37pm
37 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:57:58pm

re: #33 screaming_eagle

Yeh I've seen several shows on that. Same bone structure. They think many even had feathers.

They know most of the theropods had feathers. They have found feather fossils with more than a few of them. One dinosaur had primary feathers on both arms and legs and may have been capable of clumsy flight.

38 freetoken  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:58:10pm

Has Ken Ham ( = man lived with dinosaurs) determined that when T-Rex was caught and roasted over an open fire, which was the more popular, the white meat or the dark meat?

39 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:58:47pm

re: #35 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(*muttering to self* ... I can't believe I just up-dinged an Aggie)

(-: ... *duck and run*

After last season, we Aggies need some updinging... :(

40 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:59:27pm

re: #37 sillyquiet

They know most of the theropods had feathers. They have found feather fossils with more than a few of them. One dinosaur had primary feathers on both arms and legs and may have been capable of clumsy flight.

We have have seen the same show. It was a PBS special wasn't it?

41 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:59:40pm

re: #39 sillyquiet

After last season, we Aggies need some updinging... :(

Heh ... well, I just gave you another.
/can't help the team

42 srmoss  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:00:56pm

Funny how a narrator with the British accent can give something as ridiculous as this a degree of credibility. Good thing Crichton stuck with the raptors in Jurassic Park.

43 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:01:02pm
44 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:02:53pm

re: #40 screaming_eagle

We have have seen the same show. It was a PBS special wasn't it?

I don't doubt there was a show about, but most of what I know about it comes out of the various journals of paleontology. I never grew out of my 'I love dinosaurs' phase, and I try to keep up with the latest research. I recommend the (paleontology) works of Gregory S. Paul and Thomas Holtz on the subject, although I don't agree with all of Paul's stuff.

45 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:03:26pm

re: #29 HelloDare

They will run into things though. Repeatedly.

46 wolfie  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:03:48pm

re: #36 taxfreekiller

There are folks around here raising them and they swear it's true, at least of the little ones.

Now WILD turkeys are something else. Smart as a tack and hard to bag.

47 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:03:49pm
48 MarineGrunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:03:59pm

Gobble gobble... Bang...

Bag limit reached.

49 caliredst8r  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:04:17pm

T-Rex evolved into a turkey? What is it called when a Bird Of Paradise changes into a T-Rex, like my ex-wife did?

50 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:04:38pm

re: #1 HelloDare

Jive Dinosaur Turkey. Another thread about Obama?

Ummm. Does the turkey walk on water?

What was that?

No?

Well then - once again you right wing nuts have made a false comparison to the President!

/ Obamaton Off.

51 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:04:38pm

How? How? I hate teasers! How?

52 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:05:07pm

re: #44 sillyquiet

I thought I was an Island unto myself here - where have you been in my dueling jokes with Jim from Virginia? I was left alone to defend the honor of being an Aggie!

53 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:06:22pm

re: #47 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, those scientists. Ap to their old teryx again.

I am pretty sure that sort of pun is against some law. Somewhere.
If not, it should be.

54 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:06:25pm

re: #22 HelloDare

Leftover Thanksgiving T-Rex Casserole

This tasty T-Rex casserole recipe is made with leftover T-Rex, leftover stuffing and gravy, and a little cranberry sauce for topping.
Cook Time: 30 minutes
Ingredients:

* 4 cups prepared T-Rex stuffing
* 2 cups cooked cut up or sliced T-Rex
* 1 3/4 to 2 cups prepared T-Rex gravy
* 1/3 cup jellied or whole cranberry sauce, cubed

Preparation:
Butter bottom and sides of 2-quart baking dish. Arrange half of the stuffing in bottom of dish. Add half of the T-Rex then half of the gravy. Repeat layers. Top with cubes of cranberry sauce. Bake at 350° for 30 minutes

I wonder how big T-Rex's giblets are.

55 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:06:28pm

re: #44 sillyquiet

I seen a show on it. Where they showed the fossils that had the feathers. Showed the bone structure and everything. Also had computer animation, was a cool show.

56 winston06  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:06:31pm

OT

CBS show 60 Min has the US Airline Captain Sully on...

57 wolfie  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:06:37pm

re: #49 caliredst8r

Hmm.......If you think that's weirod,.....
I'm well into the process of evolving from a hot tomato into an old bat.

58 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:07:28pm

re: #49 caliredst8r

T-Rex evolved into a turkey? What is it called when a Bird Of Paradise changes into a T-Rex, like my ex-wife did?


LIFE

59 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:07:40pm

Is it true Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey instead of the bald eagle?

60 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:07:42pm

re: #54 MandyManners

I wonder how big T-Rex's giblets are.

The bag they come in that you pull out is a 55 gallon Hefty.

61 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:07:50pm

re: #52 ArmyWife

I thought I was an Island unto myself here - where have you been in my dueling jokes with Jim from Virginia? I was left alone to defend the honor of being an Aggie!

Being an Aggie is kind of like being American. Everybody dislikes you for it, even though you are obviously the best.

62 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:07:53pm

re: #57 wolfie

and I'm so sure you've aged like George Clooney, but with better politics?

63 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:08:08pm

re: #59 MandyManners

Yes. Thank goodness that was scrapped, huh?

64 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:08:41pm

re: #60 rightwinger3

The bag they come in that you pull out is a 55 gallon Hefty.

Gonna' need a big pot to make the gravy.

65 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:09:06pm

re: #63 ArmyWife

Yes. Thank goodness that was scrapped, huh?

Would we eat bald eagles for Thanksgiving?

66 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:09:07pm

re: #54 MandyManners

I wonder how big T-Rex's giblets are.

T-Rex taste to gamey for me..I hear if you prep it right.. it ok..

67 kcladderman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:09:08pm

re: #25 taxfreekiller

Domestic Turkey's will stand in a rain looking up with mouths open and drown.

So will most Obama voters

68 SurferDoc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:09:25pm

re: #49 caliredst8r

T-Rex evolved into a turkey? What is it called when a Bird Of Paradise changes into a T-Rex, like my ex-wife did?

Bad divorce?

69 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:09:53pm

re: #45 ArmyWife

They will run into things though. Repeatedly.

They aren't that bright. Interesting what the Snopes piece said about looking up. Since they don't have binocular vision, if they raised their heads, they would still be looking to the sides.

I remember when I was a kid watching robins on the lawn. When they tilted their heads to the side before snatching something up, I thought they were listening for a worm or bug.

70 wolfie  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:02pm

re: #62 ArmyWife

MUCH better politics! :)

71 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:17pm

re: #59 MandyManners

Is it true Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey instead of the bald eagle?

Would we then be eating bald eagle on Thanksgiving?

72 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:17pm

Those who suck must learn to edit....
Guitar: Impossible

73 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:29pm

re: #59 MandyManners

Is it true Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey instead of the bald eagle?

yes...

74 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:56pm

re: #66 HoosierHoops

T-Rex taste to gamey for me..I hear if you prep it right.. it ok..

Did you grandmother pass down her recipe?

75 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #54 MandyManners

You and your euphemisms.

76 Caliredst8r  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:11:09pm

re: #58 screaming_eagle

Yeah, millions of years of evolution compacted down into two years.

77 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:11:55pm

re: #71 The Shadow Do

Would we then be eating bald eagle on Thanksgiving?

GET OUTTA' MAH HAID.

78 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:12:20pm

re: #77 MandyManners


Or at least pay some rent!

79 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:12:58pm

re: #76 Caliredst8r

Yeah, millions of years of evolution compacted down into two years.


And they claim we're going forward.. . ..

80 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:13:35pm

re: #75 debutaunt

You and your euphemisms.

LOL! No, I wasn't talking about the testicles. That reminds me that i once saw a little kid in a stroller at the Denver Livestock Show get hit by a bull's pair. Smacked him pretty hard upside the head.

81 Caliredst8r  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:13:36pm

re: #68 SurferDoc

Actually the divorce was the most amicable part...lol She was/is in the CG and I could have sunk her career (no pun intended!) pretty easily if I had a mind to, which I didn't, but she didn't know that. She was probably projecting what she would have done to me if the roles had been switched.

82 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:13:59pm

re: #61 sillyquiet

Being an Aggie is kind of like being American. Everybody dislikes you for it, even though you are obviously the best.

(No, I'm NOT a Longhorn -- UNT, Denton)

In truth, the best Aggie joke I ever heard (decades ago) resulted from a SW Conference school of business' study of employment and careers in the state. It found that, by 10 years after graduation, A&M grads were significantly more likely to have moved into management.

"What do you call an Aggie 10 years after graduation?"
"Boss."

83 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:14:08pm

re: #73 albusteve

Who talked him out of it?

84 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:14:34pm

re: #78 ArmyWife

Or at least pay some rent!

There's a lot of empty room in there at times.

85 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:15:19pm

re: #59 MandyManners

Is it true Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey instead of the bald eagle?

Franklin's Letter to His Daughter

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

"With all this Injustice, he is never in good Case but like those among Men who live by Sharping & Robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank Coward: The little King Bird not bigger than a Sparrow attacks him boldly and drives him out of the District. He is therefore by no means a proper Emblem for the brave and honest Cincinnati of America who have driven all the King birds from our Country . . .

"I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America . . . He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on."

86 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:15:33pm

re: #42 srmoss

What do you find ridiculous about it, please be specific?

87 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:16:18pm

re: #83 MandyManners

Who talked him out of it?

dont know....but it is true

88 VioletTiger  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:16:32pm

re: #22 HelloDare
Nice, but I prefer the T-Rex Tetrazzini.

89 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:16:38pm

re: #82 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(No, I'm NOT a Longhorn -- UNT, Denton)

In truth, the best Aggie joke I ever heard (decades ago) resulted from a SW Conference school of business' study of employment and careers in the state. It found that, by 10 years after graduation, A&M grads were significantly more likely to have moved into management.

"What do you call an Aggie 10 years after graduation?"
"Boss."

Heh, my brother and his wife attend UNT. Small world.

90 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:16:55pm

re: #74 MandyManners

Did you grandmother pass down her recipe?

It's in the LGF cookbook...Anytime you deal with a 600lb Thigh you need to hire a rigging Company..the seasoning rub takes forever..

91 Basho  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:03pm

Wait... Victorians thought birds were descended from dinosaurs, and modern science confirms this? I thought evolution made no predictions and couldn't be tested!@

92 notutopia  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:04pm

re: #23 ArmyWife

Another thought - if the Dinosaur shared intelligence quotients with the Turkey, the extinction thing might get a bit more clear.

Are we going to get Mad Lizard Disease?

93 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:11pm

re: #85 HelloDare

He is a Bird of bad moral Character.

Ummmmm...didn't Ben himself have a lot of wild sex?

94 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:15pm

re: #85 HelloDare

Franklin's Letter to His Daughter

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.


The Bald eagle sounds perfect for the Modern American Government.

95 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:17pm

Speaking of turkeys
Stumbling out the gate: Barack Obama flubs his first big test

It's not easy to waste a mandate and a honeymoon at the same time, but President Obama seems determined to try. You know he's off to a lousy start when his most favorable reviews came after he said, "I screwed up."

Did he ever, and not just once. If he keeps going this way, America will be saying, "We screwed up."

He's our President, it's a horribly dangerous time at home and abroad and we desperately need him to succeed. But he can't be successful unless he builds a broad swath of public trust in his leadership. So far, he's going backward.

It's very early, but it's worrisome that Obama has stumbled almost since he took the oath. His inauguration speech was uninspired and next to nothing has gone right for him. Already he looks like he needs a vacation.

Apologies if this had been posted.

96 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:17:54pm

re: #87 albusteve

dont know....but it is true

HelloDare's No. 85 is a good read.

97 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:16pm

re: #83 MandyManners

Who talked him out of it?

I think he was out-voted in committee with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.

98 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:20pm

Speaking of Turkeys, who's winning the Pro Bowl?

99 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:28pm

re: #90 HoosierHoops

It's in the LGF cookbook...Anytime you deal with a 600lb Thigh you need to hire a rigging Company..the seasoning rub takes forever..

That's a lot of sage.

100 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:31pm

re: #80 MandyManners

LOL! No, I wasn't talking about the testicles. That reminds me that i once saw a little kid in a stroller at the Denver Livestock Show get hit by a bull's pair. Smacked him pretty hard upside the head.

The nut fling!

101 USBeast  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:36pm

re: #68 SurferDoc

Bad divorce?

Is there a good one?

102 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:39pm

re: #88 VioletTiger

Nice, but I prefer the T-Rex Tetrazzini.

Post the recipe.

103 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:18:56pm

re: #89 sillyquiet

Heh, my brother and his wife attend UNT. Small world.

Probably after me.
(clik my avatar, to my data)

104 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:19:12pm

re: #98 Shug

Speaking of Turkeys, who's winning the Pro Bowl?

The side with the most points.

105 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:19:41pm

re: #42 srmoss

Funny how a narrator with the British accent can give something as ridiculous as this a degree of credibility. Good thing Crichton stuck with the raptors in Jurassic Park.

I'm really embarrassed that someone with a cat avatar can be so foolish as to post that.

106 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:19:53pm

re: #94 Shug

The Bald eagle sounds perfect for the Modern American Government.

Even though it is not native to the United States, the Ostrich would also be appropriate.

108 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:20:27pm

re: #106 HelloDare

Even though it is not native to the United States, the Ostrich would also be appropriate.

and for Pelosi, the Dodo

109 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:20:55pm

re: #97 Catttt

I think he was out-voted in committee with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.

It'd be no fun to make badl eagle noises for Thanksgiving.

110 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:21:01pm

re: #103 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Probably after me.
(clik my avatar, to my data)

Yep. :)
Although, my brother and I are both proud sons of a Marine, although a Vietnam Vietnam era Marine.

111 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:21:33pm

re: #99 MandyManners

That's a lot of sage.

It's a lot of work..But if you BBQ T-Rex just right..It taste like chicken. and it's perfect for those football parties..Feeds hundreds

112 SurferDoc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:21:42pm

re: #101 USBeast

Is there a good one?

When they are abducted by aliens.

113 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:21:53pm

re: #105 Catttt

I'm really embarrassed that someone with a cat avatar can be so foolish as to post that.

Sounds typical to me.
*running like hell in case Goddess is around*

114 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:22:01pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Ummmmm...didn't Ben himself have a lot of wild sex?

Maybe, but he didn't sit in a treetop, then steal other people's fish.

115 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:22:13pm

re: #100 debutaunt

The nut fling!

Poor kid screeched and cried while his mother tried to get the fitter in trouble. We all pointed to the sign that said strollers were not allowed in the barn.

116 wolfie  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:22:18pm

All of a sudden I'm hungry.

117 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:22:24pm

re: #108 Shug

and for Pelosi, the Dodo

Maybe the Dodo that WB made a cartoon of.

118 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:23:26pm

re: #42 srmoss

Funny how a narrator with the British accent can give something as ridiculous as this a degree of credibility. Good thing Crichton stuck with the raptors in Jurassic Park.

Do you practice being a twit or were you born one?

119 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:23:27pm

re: #54 MandyManners

I wonder how big T-Rex's giblets are.

Oh.my. That is one image I cannot wrap my head around. How much gravy would that make?

120 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:23:56pm

re: #114 Catttt

Maybe, but he didn't sit in a treetop, then steal other people's fish.

he was too busy inventing lightening to eat

121 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:24:02pm

Dinosaurs had no cheeks, neither do birds. Mammals do so now you know the etymology of the phrase "He's a cheeky monkey!"

/

122 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:25:16pm

re: #110 sillyquiet

Yep. :)
Although, my brother and I are both proud sons of a Marine, although a Vietnam Vietnam era Marine.

There ARE a few of those registered here!

One of the other lizards and I served on the same aircraft carrier off Vietnam, but about 2 years apart. His berthing compartment was about 50 feet aft of the electronics shop I had worked in.

123 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:25:19pm

re: #111 HoosierHoops

It's a lot of work..But if you BBQ T-Rex just right..It taste like chicken. and it's perfect for those football parties..Feeds hundreds

Need a big tali-gate.

124 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:25:31pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Ummmmm...didn't Ben himself have a lot of wild sex?

Yes.

His eldest son was illegitimate, raised by him and his quite respectable wife.

Of course, he ended up the Royal Governor of New Jersey. This doesn't prove anything, of course, but does make one say, "Hmmmm."

125 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:25:31pm

I feel a little like like a meat cutter applying for membership with PETA, but here goes...
I’ve enjoyed reading LGF for the past month, but I’m still trying to figure out the culture. Seems like the evolution/creation debate is a big deal. Some of you appear to be really tired of talking with religious people about the subject, yet articles continue to be posted.

My ideas/questions regarding the evolution/creation debate:
-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked.
-History is full of biased scientists and religious leaders. LGF tends to portray scientists as human machines, incapable of having pre-conceived ideas or bias and Creationist leaders as idiots and liars. Am I correct?
-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument?
--I don’t have a major problem with theistic evolutionists.
-I have a problem with atheists who claim that humans can do anything wrong… or right.
-Where is LGF on the separation of church & state issue?
-Science seems to be creating its own high priesthood, where issues can only be debated by scientists, not laymen.

Any help on enlightening me on the LGF culture, the near total lack of patience with people who take opposing views on evolution would be appreciated. This is an honest request, I’m not trying to make a back handed slap at LGF. I'm heading out of town early, so mostly listen for now, but I'll be back... unless I get booted. Thanks!

126 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:26:37pm

re: #123 MandyManners

Need a big tali-gate.

Texas Stadium....

127 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:26:43pm

re: #122 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There ARE a few of those registered here!

One of the other lizards and I served on the same aircraft carrier off Vietnam, but about 2 years apart. His berthing compartment was about 50 feet aft of the electronics shop I had worked in.

You must be talkin' about me!
How ya doing?

128 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:27:20pm

re: #114 Catttt

Maybe, but he didn't sit in a treetop, then steal other people's fish.

Now I have this image of Franklin perched on a limb.

129 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:27:30pm
130 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:27:57pm

re: #119 Crimsonfisted

Oh.my. That is one image I cannot wrap my head around. How much gravy would that make?

Once you add the boiled eggs, it would feed a lot.

131 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:28:17pm

re: #128 MandyManners

Now I have this image of Franklin perched on a limb.

At least he never sat on a fence.

132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:28:51pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked.

Links, please.

133 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:28:59pm

re: #128 MandyManners

Now I have this image of Franklin perched on a limb.

In his younger years, that's not impossible.

134 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:29:19pm

re: #124 Dianna

Yes.

His eldest son was illegitimate, raised by him and his quite respectable wife.

Of course, he ended up the Royal Governor of New Jersey. This doesn't prove anything, of course, but does make one say, "Hmmmm."

Bless his heart for doing the right thing.

135 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:29:23pm
136 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:29:36pm

re: #127 jwb7605

You must be talkin' about me!
How ya doing?

*GASP*
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!
*waves hand and grins*

Doin' good. Last week was busy. Next week might be too. The money's nice.

137 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:30:05pm

Years ago for its late-night sign-off, a TV station used to show a bald eagle swooping down over the water. America's symbol would snatch a large fish with its talons while patriotic music played in the background. Unfortunately, if you looked real close, you could see that the fish was floating dead on its side.

I'd prefer a Minute Man holding a musket as our national symbol.

138 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:30:53pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

*shaking head*

139 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:31:05pm
140 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:31:14pm
141 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:31:34pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

I'm always astonished by people who ask for someone else to provide them with an explanation of something that they could come to an independent understanding of on their own simply by taking the time to read the relevant material.

Reminds me of the bald eagle.

142 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:31:41pm

re: #135 buzzsawmonkey

Just Ground Hog Links, were there no Ground Cow Links?

143 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:31:57pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

LOL you ask questions like that to spur an honest debate..But no..you'll be back later to see what was written..you got to be kidding me...

144 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:01pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Your response is case in point... I want to hear what some of the members here have to say. That's why I registered.

145 Timbre  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:05pm

Alright! Paleoturkeys! Charles, this is what I asked for last night!

146 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:12pm

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

A Minute Man holding a muskie could be a workable compromise.

Cod you make it something native to New England waters?

147 summergurl  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:21pm

re: #99 MandyManners

That's a lot of sage.

Is the cookbook out?

148 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:25pm
149 notutopia  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:32pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

I'm always astonished by people who ask for someone else to provide them with an explanation of something that they could come to an independent understanding of on their own simply by taking the time to read the relevant material.

You beat me to it buzzsawmonkey.
If someone REALLY is interested in Darwin's Black Box, all they have to do is google. There is no set "culture" on LGF. Just lizard honco people who
are genuinely interested in dissing lies, misquotes, triangulation, media bias, and anyone or anything that HATES to look in the mirror while they're doing these things.

150 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:35pm

re: #126 albusteve

Texas Stadium....

Or, Neyland.

151 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:32:49pm

re: #142 Slumbering Behemoth

Just Ground Hog Links, were there no Ground Cow Links?

Pattys not links

152 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:33:27pm

re: #147 summergurl

Is the cookbook out?

Very soon!

153 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:33:27pm

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

A Minute Man holding a muskie could be a workable compromise.

.


How about a Minuteman grilling a turkey?

154 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:33:28pm

re: #131 Crimsonfisted

At least he never sat on a fence.

Integrity isn't cheap.

155 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:33:43pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

LOL you ask questions like that to spur an honest debate..But no..you'll be back later to see what was written..you got to be kidding me...

re: #143 HoosierHoops

LOL you ask questions like that to spur an honest debate..But no..you'll be back later to see what was written..you got to be kidding me...

homework

156 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:01pm

re: #133 Dianna

In his younger years, that's not impossible.

To observe some fetching maidens perhaps.

157 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:04pm

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

You can't have Ground Cow links on Ground Hog Day--or can you?

I do, but I'm not one to stand on tradition.

158 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:15pm

re: #144 sprucepinehollow

Your response is case in point... I want to hear what some of the members here have to say. That's why I registered.

Then stricke up a conversation with someone and try to have a two discussion.

159 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:22pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

Hey, I'm here. I'm packing and I'm not staying up late. Geez.

160 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:33pm
161 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:34:39pm

re: #150 MandyManners

Or, Neyland.

woohoo!...pass the brisket

162 summergurl  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:29pm

re: #152 HoosierHoops

Very soon!


Can't wait --- it'll be good to try some new stuff

163 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:45pm

re: #147 summergurl

Is the cookbook out?

I don't think so.

164 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:45pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

It's kind of like learning Chinese or Learning to appreciate good wine.
There are no shortcuts.

I recommend reading a lot longer than a month and you will get most of the answers you seek, and you will learn why some of your questions will go over like farts in Church

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:51pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Ummmmm...didn't Ben himself have a lot of wild sex?

Well, yes, but he didn't recommend himself as the national bird.

166 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:52pm

re: #147 summergurl

Is the cookbook out?

Click my nic for updates.

I could put it up for sale now . . . however, I've ordered a copy to review to be sure everything printed like we intended, and if there are glitches, we can get them fixed before everyone starts buying it.

I'm waiting for my copy to get here -it's been shipped, but I chose the least expensive shipping and it may take 3 weeks or so to get here, they tell me.

167 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:35:54pm

re: #155 albusteve

homework

rusty blog fu

168 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:36:16pm

Old Fashioned T-Rex Egg Salad
Ingredients -
102 Heads Iceberg Lettuce
6 Hard-Cooked T-Rex Eggs, sliced
82 large Onions, thinly sliced
Half cup Salt
1/4 cup Pepper
Two hands fulls of Paprika
1 gallon Salad Oil
3 cups tablespoons Vinegar
Half cup Worcestershire Sauce
1 cup minced Parsley
4 cups grated Sharp Cheddar Cheese


Preparation:

1. Tear iceberg lettuce into small pieces.

2. Place lettuce in salad bowl.

3. Alternate layers of sliced hard-cooked egg, sliced onion,

4. In medium bowl, combine salt, pepper, paprika, salad oil, vinegar, Worcestershire sauce, parsley, and sharp cheddar cheese.

5. Pour dressing over egg salad and toss lightly.

169 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:36:18pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

I feel a little like like a meat cutter applying for membership with PETA, but here goes...
I’ve enjoyed reading LGF for the past month, but I’m still trying to figure out the culture. Seems like the evolution/creation debate is a big deal. Some of you appear to be really tired of talking with religious people about the subject, yet articles continue to be posted.

My ideas/questions regarding the evolution/creation debate:
-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked.
-History is full of biased scientists and religious leaders. LGF tends to portray scientists as human machines, incapable of having pre-conceived ideas or bias and Creationist leaders as idiots and liars. Am I correct?
-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument?
--I don’t have a major problem with theistic evolutionists.
-I have a problem with atheists who claim that humans can do anything wrong… or right.
-Where is LGF on the separation of church & state issue?
-Science seems to be creating its own high priesthood, where issues can only be debated by scientists, not laymen.

Any help on enlightening me on the LGF culture, the near total lack of patience with people who take opposing views on evolution would be appreciated. This is an honest request, I’m not trying to make a back handed slap at LGF. I'm heading out of town early, so mostly listen for now, but I'll be back... unless I get booted. Thanks!

Answering that is a tall order.
We're mostly conservative, which tends to be vague, depending on the subject.
I've seen pretty much all religions here, and lizards are quite tolerant of any of them, as long as no proselytizing takes place.
Virtually zero people here think the universe/world was created in 6000 years, and most of us get offended if we're required to believe that literal statement.

I also cancelled out the downding somebody gave you, because it sounds like you were asking an honest question.

170 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:36:27pm

re: #144 sprucepinehollow

Your response is case in point... I want to hear what some of the members here have to say. That's why I registered.

Taking you at your word ...
... try this ... John Reine at Scientific American

Others here will have more links

171 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:36:37pm

re: #153 sillyquiet

.


How about a Minuteman grilling a turkey?

Sounds like Gitmo.

172 summergurl  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:37:40pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout


Thanks Reine - on there now checking it out...

173 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:37:58pm

re: #136 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*GASP*
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!
*waves hand and grins*

Doin' good. Last week was busy. Next week might be too. The money's nice.

We might want to explain to sillyquiet that we were not Marines.
Good grief, they don't even have a football team!

174 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:37:59pm

bbiab

175 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:38:07pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

Well that's a lot of curiousity for someone who's been reading awhile. Rather than hold up the thread, why don't you go seek answers if you really have an inquiring mind?

A search on "discovery institute" with the search bar above will send you to numerous threads where each and every one of your questions is answered in detail and abundantly.

But you are probably just another troll, as the "groupthink" slander indicates.

176 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:38:41pm

lurking might be a requirement in my world....22 paras to say I dont know what the fuck....

177 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:38:54pm

Mah nah mu nah....

178 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:39:33pm

re: #170 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Got it bookmarked & will read it at the airport tomorrow. Thanks!

179 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:39:37pm

Someone probably mentioned this already upthread, but the turkeys we eat for food are as much a creation of man as anything else. Bred for the most meat, etc. I saw some wild turkeys recently and they are normal sized birds, skinny even.

180 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:39:53pm

re: #158 screaming_eagle

Then stricke up a conversation with someone and try to have a two discussion.

I'll give it a shot: I think "two" is a highly overrated number, and gets discussed more than the far superior number "eleventy".
/

181 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:40:32pm

re: #173 jwb7605

We might want to explain to sillyquiet that we were not Marines.
Good grief, they don't even have a football team!

I knew that.

182 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:40:42pm

Hi y'all - caught a short window of opporunity to play out here before dinner!
How is everyone doing?

183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:41:01pm

re: #180 Slumbering Behemoth

Threeve is also a good number.

184 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:41:07pm

re: #169 jwb7605

Thanks for the info, and thanks for the dings. If my karma was for real I'd come back as a cockroach.

185 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:41:28pm

re: #173 jwb7605

We might want to explain to sillyquiet that we were not Marines.
Good grief, they don't even have a football team!

Yes -- NOT Marines, sillyquiet.

Heh, I told my Dad I wanted to learn a trade in the service. He told me to join the Navy or the Air Force. Explained that if one had an engineering degree at enlistment, and the Corps needed cooks that week, one would become a cook.

186 notutopia  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:41:38pm

re: #179 rawmuse

Someone probably mentioned this already upthread, but the turkeys we eat for food are as much a creation of man as anything else. Bred for the most meat, etc. I saw some wild turkeys recently and they are normal sized birds, skinny even.

Wild turkey hunting is very popular in NC. You're right.
An average wild turkey weighs in at about 9 to 12 lbs.
And, They have beautiful brown plumage.

187 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:01pm

re: #179 rawmuse

Someone probably mentioned this already upthread, but the turkeys we eat for food are as much a creation of man as anything else. Bred for the most meat, etc. I saw some wild turkeys recently and they are normal sized birds, skinny even.

In Franklin's letter, he stated that (wild) Turkeys are brave.
He wasn't kidding. I had one charge me one spring! All I had to defend myself with was a fishing pole, so I waved it at him, and we did a little dance before he gave up.

188 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:18pm

re: #174 MandyManners
Ah, rats! I hope you come back before I have to eat dinner - was wondering if blackpajamas had apologised to you or threatened me any furthertoday!

189 Timbre  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:29pm

It's strange here in West Texas--a full moon in the east and a line of severe thunderstorms to the west and 38 mph winds out of the south. See you all later....maybe!

190 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:34pm

re: #179 rawmuse

Someone probably mentioned this already upthread, but the turkeys we eat for food are as much a creation of man as anything else. Bred for the most meat, etc. I saw some wild turkeys recently and they are normal sized birds, skinny even.

those are metroturks...vain sissies compared to big ass MI country birds that will feed at least 80 people....and they serve themselves

191 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:44pm

re: #178 sprucepinehollow

Got it bookmarked & will read it at the airport tomorrow. Thanks!

Come back and ask again. I know some lizards have a half-dozen or more links to fundamental, hard, data.

192 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:42:54pm

re: #159 sprucepinehollow

Hey, I'm here. I'm packing and I'm not staying up late. Geez.

Hi there..See what Buzzsaw posted? Follow his advice grasshopper..
Next time when you join a board and jump on asking about the meaning of life or whatever that nonsense you asked about..Don't worry there is a 1000 different views to many issues..But we don't bait lizards...
You wanna try again?

193 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:01pm

re: #185 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yes -- NOT Marines, sillyquiet.

Heh, I told my Dad I wanted to learn a trade in the service. He told me to join the Navy or the Air Force. Explained that if one had an engineering degree at enlistment, and the Corps needed cooks that week, one would become a cook.

What else would an engineering degree be good for in my beloved Marine Corps?
/

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:01pm

re: #187 jwb7605

In Franklin's letter, he stated that (wild) Turkeys are brave.
He wasn't kidding. I had one charge me one spring! All I had to defend myself with was a fishing pole, so I waved it at him, and we did a little dance before he gave up.

Birds are aggressive when they need to be. I got bitten by a swan once, think I wandered too close to the nest.

195 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:06pm

re: #144 sprucepinehollow

Your response is case in point... I want to hear what some of the members here have to say. That's why I registered.

Members here have been discussing this for quite awhile.
Go to the tag cloud and click on the appropriate tags, and read some of the threads, click on one or more of the many links, use the search function for the topics you are interested in (the watchmaker "argument" has been discussed at various times here).

It's very easy to self-inform.

196 VioletTiger  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:12pm

re: #168 HelloDare

Yabba dabba doo!

197 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:26pm

re: #168 HelloDare

Yummy!

198 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:43:38pm

re: #184 sprucepinehollow

Thanks for the info, and thanks for the dings. If my karma was for real I'd come back as a cockroach.

I'm giving you updings for these questions today.

199 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:45:03pm

re: #190 albusteve

Mine were watched in Marin County, and they were not afraid of traffic.

200 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:46:13pm

People who doubt evolution should take another look at what man did to the turkey, to corn, to the dog through selective breeding. Hey, now that I think of it, the Corn Dog is a perfect example.

201 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:46:31pm

My comments in bold

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

I feel a little like like a meat cutter applying for membership with PETA, but here goes...
I’ve enjoyed reading LGF for the past month, but I’m still trying to figure out the culture. Seems like the evolution/creation debate is a big deal. Some of you appear to be really tired of talking with religious people about the subject, yet articles continue to be posted. We aren't tired of speaking to religious people at all! In fact, many of us are quite religious. It's stupid people we struggle with.

My ideas/questions regarding the evolution/creation debate:
-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked. Again, religious views are accepted. What isn't acceptable is forcing those views on others to the detriment of science. If you would like to be a creationist, more power to you, just keep it out of our science classes (unless it's a private school, then we really don't care beyond hoping science get taught in there somewhere).
-History is full of biased scientists and religious leaders. LGF tends to portray scientists as human machines, incapable of having pre-conceived ideas or bias and Creationist leaders as idiots and liars. Am I correct? Nope, you are not correct.
-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument? Yes. You've been reading the threads, right? No need to repost here, then.
--I don’t have a major problem with theistic evolutionists. Good?
-I have a problem with atheists who claim that humans can do anything wrong… or right. That's fine, nothing wrong with civil discourse. I chose to be accepting of differing views, again, so long as they don't sneak up in my science class. For those that simply can't formulate a logical conversation, I just ignore. This is the internet, you know.
-Where is LGF on the separation of church & state issue? Despite what you've assumed, there is no "LGF" stand on issues (barring the issues are not related to calling for harm, revolution, real racism, conspiracy theories and, in general, nonsense). If you want opinions on this, ask us - we will respond individually, and there will be diverging view points.
-Science seems to be creating its own high priesthood, where issues can only be debated by scientists, not laymen. Interesting since we have many laymen here who debate this issue with aplomb. We have scientists, too, but I've yet to see one smack me down for my thoughts on the subject.

Any help on enlightening me on the LGF culture, the near total lack of patience with people who take opposing views on evolution would be appreciated. This is an honest request, I’m not trying to make a back handed slap at LGF. I'm heading out of town early, so mostly listen for now, but I'll be back... unless I get booted. Thanks!

Please note that I was not elected Lizard Press Secretary, so others very well may feel differently than I do - that is what makes this place great.

202 notutopia  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:47:02pm

Here is what a wild turkey looks like.
Image: wild-turkey-0001.jpg

203 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:47:03pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout

Is it coming Dinosaur Express?

204 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:47:35pm

re: #197 HoosierHoops
Hi ya Hoops! How are you doing tonight?

205 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:48:05pm

re: #199 rawmuse

Mine were watched in Marin County, and they were not afraid of traffic.

Charles posted a link once of a prehistoric wild turkey that took out an entire Amtrac...

206 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:48:14pm

re: #193 rightwinger3

What else would an engineering degree be good for in my beloved Marine Corps?
/

*grins and holds up hands* ... No contest! No contest!

I went in the Navy (learned electronics) but I remain a dyed-in-the-wool Marine brat. Dad enlisted in December of '39. When they created E-8 and E-9, the first 50 E-8s were selected for meritorious promotion. He was one of those.

/insufferable pride mode "off"

207 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:49:43pm

re: #204 realwest

Hi ya Hoops! How are you doing tonight?

Hiya RW! Watching the last 1:30 sec of the probowl..The last football until Sept. pretty sad really! *waves*

208 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:49:48pm

re: #188 realwest

Ah, rats! I hope you come back before I have to eat dinner - was wondering if blackpajamas had apologised to you or threatened me any furthertoday!

Hey, RW. Got a link for that one...I've got to see this exchange.

209 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:50:19pm

re: #201 ArmyWife

My comments in bold

Please note that I was not elected Lizard Press Secretary, so others very well may feel differently than I do - that is what makes this place great.

Great answer.

210 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:51:06pm

re: #206 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grins and holds up hands* ... No contest! No contest!

I went in the Navy (learned electronics) but I remain a dyed-in-the-wool Marine brat. Dad enlisted in December of '39. When they created E-8 and E-9, the first 50 E-8s were selected for meritorious promotion. He was one of those.

/insufferable pride mode "off"

Very cool.

211 kansas  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:05pm

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him."

Actually the Bald Eagle sounds like a politician.

212 coquimbojoe  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:17pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

I don't know if I will answer your questions, but LGF is open to anyone who enjoys debate. I personally believe in a God that created this earth and all therein. I also believe that all truth comes from God. Scientific fact seems to point more and more to evolution. In my mind evolution of creatures is an elegant solution to meets changes and needs of species. Why wouldn't God have created that, or built that into His creation? It makes sense to me that He would have.

As a believer, my cause is not helped when promoters of creationist teachings use falsehoods and fallacious arguments to get creationism into the schools. Also, as a Mormon do Jews, Moslems, baptists etc want me teaching creationism according to my understanding to their children at school? No? I thought not. Likewise I do not want my children being indoctrinated into another faith while at school.

The facts seem to consistently bear out evolution. Fossil record, DNA, adaptations to different environments etc. In my mind, these things are important to understand, elegant to behold, and worth studying. As our knowledge of God's creation get better, then perhaps our understanding of God does too.

213 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:18pm

re: #188 realwest

Ah, rats! I hope you come back before I have to eat dinner - was wondering if blackpajamas had apologised to you or threatened me any furthertoday!

I haven't checked. Sometimes you just gotta' let someone go, especially one who shows a woeful abundance of willful ignorance.

214 Lincolntf  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:44pm

re: #197 HoosierHoops

Hi all.

Hey, Hoosier, I got back from the BC/Wake a little while ago. Don't know if you watched, so here are some impressions...
Aminu for WF is a beast. Teague is pretty much as advertised. Tyrese Hill was solid (a couple times spectacular), but after an injury in the middle of the second (he sat for a long, key stretch of the game after pulling up short and laying down, I think it was a knee or maybe a cramp) he wasn't the same. BC had led by one at the half, but quickly fell behind by double digits and stayed there. First 30 minutes were high-quality b-ball. The unavoidable truth is that Wake is a far superior team.

215 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:50pm

re: #206 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grins and holds up hands* ... No contest! No contest!

I went in the Navy (learned electronics) but I remain a dyed-in-the-wool Marine brat. Dad enlisted in December of '39. When they created E-8 and E-9, the first 50 E-8s were selected for meritorious promotion. He was one of those.

/insufferable pride mode "off"

My dad enlisted in 61. Spent a lot of time in Vietnam (a silver star and two bronze stars on his service ribbon, not sure how much time that translates to). After the war, he became a linguist, learning Russian, and earned both dolphins and wings. Spent much time listening to Soviet radio broadcasts. He also helped worked on translating russian documents related to various SAM missiles, which work he was always proud to claim helped the Israelis win against the Soviet-supplied Arabs in the 70's conflicts. He died last month after Christmas. I could brag about him all day.

216 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:52:59pm

re: #201 ArmyWife

You have just been nominated for Lizard Press Secretary!

217 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:53:14pm

re: #208 jorline

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Hey you guys! have a nice weekend?

218 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:53:15pm

re: #203 ArmyWife

Is it coming Dinosaur Express?

Yes, LOL!
Actually, the method of shipping I chose was around $5, and they say it will take up to 3 to 6 weeks!

I ordered 2 weeks or so ago, so I am HOPING it gets here very very soon. I know everybody is anxious - but I would hate to start selling and have the book not be what we intended for it to be.

219 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:53:44pm

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Thanks!

220 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:54:03pm

re: #217 HoosierHoops

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Hey you guys! have a nice weekend?

Howdy, HH!
Been a good weekend so far!
Our weather has been perfect, just gorgeous!
How about you?

221 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:54:25pm

Hey, creationists. Stick your tongue in a light socket. It's only a theory.

222 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:55:04pm

re: #215 sillyquiet

My dad enlisted in 61. Spent a lot of time in Vietnam (a silver star and two bronze stars on his service ribbon, not sure how much time that translates to). After the war, he became a linguist, learning Russian, and earned both dolphins and wings. Spent much time listening to Soviet radio broadcasts. He also helped worked on translating russian documents related to various SAM missiles, which work he was always proud to claim helped the Israelis win against the Soviet-supplied Arabs in the 70's conflicts. He died last month after Christmas. I could brag about him all day.

I salute your father....

223 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:55:12pm

re: #208 jorline
Hi jorline - not that I recall - it was, I think around #830 or 840 of the DT today - he made some pretty offensive remarks about domestic violence, I called him on it, he said he'd see me on the next open thread and warned me he wouldn't be "nice". It sorta went downhill from there! LOL!

224 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:55:25pm

re: #205 albusteve

Charles posted a link once of a prehistoric wild turkey that took out an entire Amtrac...

Amtrak or Amtrac?
No USMC amtrac is gonna get taken out by a stupid turkey

225 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:55:48pm
226 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:56:01pm

re: #221 HelloDare

Hey, creationists. Stick your tongue in a light socket. It's only a theory.

I once asked an electrician to explain to me about electricity and the various terms.

It could not be done.

Seems like you have to sort of be able to picture it in your head to understand it, and I just failed miserably.

227 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:56:07pm

re: #214 Lincolntf

Hi all.

Hey, Hoosier, I got back from the BC/Wake a little while ago. Don't know if you watched, so here are some impressions...
Aminu for WF is a beast. Teague is pretty much as advertised. Tyrese Hill was solid (a couple times spectacular), but after an injury in the middle of the second (he sat for a long, key stretch of the game after pulling up short and laying down, I think it was a knee or maybe a cramp) he wasn't the same. BC had led by one at the half, but quickly fell behind by double digits and stayed there. First 30 minutes were high-quality b-ball. The unavoidable truth is that Wake is a far superior team.

That's what I hear about Wake...Aminu is a superstar and I'm picking them for the final 4.

228 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:56:09pm

re: #201 ArmyWife

Excellent. Thanks. My question about LGF "position" was unclear, but I got the answer loud and clear.

229 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:56:53pm

re: #210 rightwinger3

Very cool.

Thank you.

230 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:57:02pm

re: #224 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Amtrak or Amtrac?
No USMC amtrac is gonna get taken out by a stupid turkey

you are correct of course...I should know the difference

231 Lincolntf  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:57:09pm

re: #227 HoosierHoops

Good call. I hadn't thought about it yet, but so am I.

232 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:57:13pm

re: #226 reine.de.tout

I once asked an electrician to explain to me about electricity and the various terms.

It could not be done.

Seems like you have to sort of be able to picture it in your head to understand it, and I just failed miserably.

It's those damn electrons.

233 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:20pm

re: #232 HelloDare

It's those damn electrons.

Just. Don't. Go. There.
My head will explode.

234 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:23pm

re: #213 MandyManners
Hey Mandy! I actually thought it was more than a woeful abundance of willful ignorance. I thought he was callous and uncaring about Domestic Violence.
Well, with any luck he'll stay away for a while. Anyone who thinks you should shoot someone to settle domestic battery isn't someone intelligent enough to play with out here anyway.

235 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:24pm

i saw wild turkey foot prints in the snow today.
coming out from under the pine trees.
they were quite large for a bird. it was remarkable.
they very much like a miniature tyrannosaurus rex foot print.

236 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:31pm

re: #220 reine.de.tout

Howdy, HH!
Been a good weekend so far!
Our weather has been perfect, just gorgeous!
How about you?

All the snow melted! it has been in the 50's this weekend..
Al Gore Answered our prayers...
/I owe him some serious carbon credits

237 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:38pm

re: #226 reine.de.tout

All I know is that if you watch "Dark Knight" on your home system, be careful that your speakers do not get blown out. I replaced mine today. Went with a 5.1 system with a crossover so I can dump all the lows to a sub woofer.

238 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:58:39pm

re: #215 sillyquiet

A Silver Star is not handed out lightly.
He and I are/were of the same generation.

239 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:59:51pm

re: #237 rawmuse

All I know is that if you watch "Dark Knight" on your home system, be careful that your speakers do not get blown out. I replaced mine today. Went with a 5.1 system with a crossover so I can dump all the lows to a sub woofer.

You might as well be speaking Greek to me.

Besides, we don't have a "system". We have a very old regular, normal TV set.

240 quickjustice  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:00:03pm

So contrary to Jurassic Park, T Rex might have been more like a giant TURKEY? ;-)

Sounds tasty to me! ;-)

241 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:00:23pm

re: #226 reine.de.tout

I once asked an electrician to explain to me about electricity and the various terms.

It could not be done.

Seems like you have to sort of be able to picture it in your head to understand it, and I just failed miserably.

Imagine a garden hose.
Turn the water on, and try to keep the water from coming out the end.
The pressure is equivalent to voltage.
The volume of water coming out is equivalent to current.
Resistance is equivalent to the diameter/overall length of the hose.

Does that help?

242 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:00:57pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

Yes, LOL!
Actually, the method of shipping I chose was around $5, and they say it will take up to 3 to 6 weeks!

I ordered 2 weeks or so ago, so I am HOPING it gets here very very soon. I know everybody is anxious - but I would hate to start selling and have the book not be what we intended for it to be.

If we do NOT get the cookbook SOON (*gasp*) we'll hand Killgore's Komodo Dragon a road map with Baton Rouge circled.

243 JHW  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:02pm

re: #215 sillyquiet

My dad enlisted in 61. Spent a lot of time in Vietnam (a silver star and two bronze stars on his service ribbon, not sure how much time that translates to). After the war, he became a linguist, learning Russian, and earned both dolphins and wings. Spent much time listening to Soviet radio broadcasts. He also helped worked on translating russian documents related to various SAM missiles, which work he was always proud to claim helped the Israelis win against the Soviet-supplied Arabs in the 70's conflicts. He died last month after Christmas. I could brag about him all day.

I can provide a bit of information on the stars for Navy and Marines on the Vietnam Service ribbon, even though I was a "doggie", ours were about the same. 17 were authorized for the Navy and Marine Corps as follows.

3 Silver and 2 Bronze Stars


1. Vietnam Advisory Campaign (15 March 1962- 7 March 1965)
2. Vietnam Defense Campaign (8 March-24 December 1965)
3. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (25 December 1965- 30 June 1966)
4. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (1 July 1966-31 May 1967) Phase II
5. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (1 June 1967-29 January 1968) Phase III
6. Tet Counteroffensive (30 January-l April 1968)
7. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (2 April-30 June 1968) Phase IV
8. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (1 July-l November 1968) Phase V
9. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (2 November 1968- 22 February 1969) Phase VI
10. Tet 69/Counteroffensive (23 February-8 June 1969)
11. Vietnam Summer-Fall 1969 (9 June-31 October 1969)
12. Vietnam Winter-Spring 1970 (1 November 1969-30 April 1970)
13. Sanctuary Counteroffensive (1 May-30 June 1970)
14. Vietnamese Counteroffensive (l July 1970-30 June1971) Phase VII
15. Consolidation I (1 Jul 1971 - 30 Nov 1971)
16. Consolidation II (1 Dec 1971 - 29 Mar 1972)
17. Vietnam Ceasefire Campaign (30 Mar 1972 - 28 Jan 1973)


Naval Historical Center

244 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:26pm

re: #241 jwb7605

Imagine a garden hose.
Turn the water on, and try to keep the water from coming out the end.
The pressure is equivalent to voltage.
The volume of water coming out is equivalent to current.
Resistance is equivalent to the diameter/overall length of the hose.

Does that help?

Didn't help me. Just made me thirsty.

245 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:50pm

re: #225 buzzsawmonkey

You're thinking of the Formerly Bald Eagle with Implants, currently presiding over the Senate.

No. He's a turkey. Watch him trot.

246 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:53pm

re: #207 HoosierHoops
Wow, you watched the Pro Bowl?!? You really are a football junkie! LOL! How many missed tackles were there - was the score something like 41-35 again?

247 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:57pm

re: #212 coquimbojoe

As a believer, my cause is not helped when promoters of creationist teachings use falsehoods and fallacious arguments to get creationism into the schools. Also, as a Mormon do Jews, Moslems, baptists etc want me teaching creationism according to my understanding to their children at school? No? I thought not. Likewise I do not want my children being indoctrinated into another faith while at school.

Cool. I'm there.

248 Buster Bunny  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:01:58pm

re: #168 HelloDare

Old Fashioned T-Rex Egg Salad
Ingredients -
102 Heads Iceberg Lettuce
6 Hard-Cooked T-Rex Eggs, sliced
82 large Onions, thinly sliced

6 Hard Cooked T-Rex eggs come to a grand total of about 3.6kg of egg white and yolk.

How many people are you catering for?

249 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:02:02pm

re: #221 HelloDare

Hey, creationists. Stick your tongue in a light socket. It's only a theory.

I have never seen an electron, therefore they don't exist. Electricity is a lie.

BIG EDISON IS RIPPING US OFF!

or if you prefer, BIG TESLA IS RIPPING US OFF!

250 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:02:27pm
251 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:02:34pm

re: #217 HoosierHoops

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Hey you guys! have a nice weekend?

See you tomorrow morning, Hoopster.

252 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:03:17pm

re: #240 quickjustice

So contrary to Jurassic Park, T Rex might have been more like a giant TURKEY? ;-)

Sounds tasty to me! ;-)

Yes Eating T-Rex at Thanksgiving instead of him eating you brings a new dimension to thank you gawd before the meal

253 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:03:48pm

I don't get National Geographic channel, and those clips are just teasing me.

I'm gonna have to order the video; hopefully they will put it out on video.

254 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:03:50pm

re: #235 nyc redneck

i saw wild turkey foot prints in the snow today.
coming out from under the pine trees.
they were quite large for a bird. it was remarkable.
they very much like a miniature tyrannosaurus rex foot print.

When you hear the siding being pried off your house tonight, you'll now know what's trying to get in.

/sleep tight!

255 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:04:03pm

re: #241 jwb7605

Why do some appliance have a fat thingy and a skinny thingy on plug (so you can only plug it in one way) and other appliances have two skinny thingys on the plug. Alternating current means it shouldn't matter which way it's plugged in.

256 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:04:14pm

Dinosaur Jive Turkey? That would have to be Arlen Specter.

257 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:05:08pm

re: #241 jwb7605

Imagine a garden hose.
Turn the water on, and try to keep the water from coming out the end.
The pressure is equivalent to voltage.
The volume of water coming out is equivalent to current.
Resistance is equivalent to the diameter/overall length of the hose.

Does that help?

Actually, it does indeed help a lot. Helps me form that picture in my head that I need to understand things.

Now -
Volt?
Watt?
Ampere?

258 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:05:23pm

re: #245 MandyManners

Just brilliant, Mandy! We've solved what to do with Iran! We email this link to Ahmadinejad and his head will explode! We save all that travel money, no one gets hurt! Well, no one except Ahmadinejad, but war is a bitch.

259 Lincolntf  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:05:47pm

Are you all watching Morphed?

260 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:05:58pm

re: #242 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If we do NOT get the cookbook SOON (*gasp*) we'll hand Killgore's Komodo Dragon a road map with Baton Rouge circled.

Killgore has a komodo dragon?
Is that legal?

261 Lincolntf  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:06:20pm

Sorry, reine, just saw your post. I'm sure they'll come out with a video.

262 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:06:23pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

The answer is undoubtedly "to comply with a gubmint regulation".

263 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:06:29pm

re: #226 reine.de.tout

I once asked an electrician to explain to me about electricity and the various terms.

It could not be done.

Seems like you have to sort of be able to picture it in your head to understand it, and I just failed miserably.

I=E/R.

264 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:06:33pm

re: #258 ArmyWife
Uh, I think sending that to Iran would consitutue a war crime under the Geneva Conventions against torture!

265 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:08pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

Yes, LOL!
Actually, the method of shipping I chose was around $5, and they say it will take up to 3 to 6 weeks!

I ordered 2 weeks or so ago, so I am HOPING it gets here very very soon. I know everybody is anxious - but I would hate to start selling and have the book not be what we intended for it to be.

Hi reine.

Soon, a lot of us will be published for the first time...and everyone of us under a pseudonym...lol

266 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:11pm

re: #260 reine.de.tout

He has a green card. It's fine.

267 Colonel Panik  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:12pm

Turkeysaurus Rex!

268 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:19pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Why do some appliance have a fat thingy and a skinny thingy on plug (so you can only plug it in one way) and other appliances have two skinny thingys on the plug. Alternating current means it shouldn't matter which way it's plugged in.

The fat thingy is supposed to be "neutral", which is supposed to be basically ground.
The skinny thingy is "hot", which goes plusity and minusity around zero.
If you've got a 3-prong outlet, it should be the one on the left.
The hole in the bottom of a 3-prong outlet is supposed to be earth ground.

It doesn't matter which way it's plugged in unless the chassis of whatever you're plugging in is somehow connected to one of the two prongs.

269 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:28pm
270 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:33pm

re: #251 jorline

See you tomorrow morning, Hoopster.

See ya in the morning Jorline.. I'm stopping at Starbucks.. I'm not really happy unless my coffee costs more than a gallon of Gas...Plus they want a tip..

271 Big Steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:07:46pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Why do some appliance have a fat thingy and a skinny thingy on plug (so you can only plug it in one way) and other appliances have two skinny thingys on the plug. Alternating current means it shouldn't matter which way it's plugged in.

Depends on the device has a transformer to step down the current. Typically TV's, computers and such have circuitry set up to expect the potential to always be negative thus they have to orient to the plug properly. Inductive motors, such as your vacuum cleaner won't care.

272 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:02pm

re: #253 reine.de.tout

I don't get National Geographic channel, and those clips are just teasing me.

I'm gonna have to order the video; hopefully they will put it out on video.

NatGeo has its own channel on Hulu, with many full shows. Sadly, the Morphed series is not one of them.

273 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:05pm

Back in June they completed a phylogenomic study and it caused a huge resort of the modern avian phlogenetic tree.

[Link: www.eurekalert.org...]

"Our study and the remarkable new understanding of the evolutionary relationships of birds that it affords was possible only because of the technological advances of the last few years that have enabled us to sample larger portions of genomes," said Shannon Hackett, one of three lead authors and associate curator of birds at The Field Museum. "Our study yielded robust results and illustrates the power of collecting genome-scale data to reconstruct difficult evolutionary trees."

The results of the study are so broad that the scientific names of dozens of birds will have to be changed, and biology textbooks and birdwatchers' field guides will have to be revised. For example, we now know that:

Birds adapted to the diverse environments several distinct times because many birds that now live on water (such as flamingos, tropicbirds and grebes) did not evolve from a different waterbird group, and many birds that now live on land (such as turacos, doves, sandgrouse and cuckoos) did not evolve from a different landbird group.
Similarly, distinctive lifestyles (such as nocturnal, raptorial and pelagic, i.e., living on the ocean or open seas) evolved several times. For example, contrary to conventional thinking, colorful, daytime hummingbirds evolved from drab nocturnal nightjars; falcons are not closely related to hawks and eagles; and tropicbirds (white, swift-flying ocean birds) are not closely related to pelicans and other waterbirds.
Shorebirds are not a basal evolutionary group, which refutes the widely held view that shorebirds gave rise to all modern birds.

"With this study, we learned two major things," said Sushma Reddy, another lead author and Bucksbaum Postdoctoral Fellow at The Field Museum. "First, appearances can be deceiving. Birds that look or act similar are not necessarily related. Second, much of bird classification and conventional wisdom on the evolutionary relationships of birds is wrong."

274 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:10pm

re: #243 JHW

Naval Historical Center

Thanks. So the stars indicate campaigns participated in? This is useful, because my dad never talked about his service there.

275 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:11pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Why do some appliance have a fat thingy and a skinny thingy on plug (so you can only plug it in one way) and other appliances have two skinny thingys on the plug. Alternating current means it shouldn't matter which way it's plugged in.

It does. One side of the AC line is tied to neutral, the other to "hot".

The thick blade/thin blade arrangement is a safety feature, determined by the internal construction of the appliance.

It's to keep the "hot" circuit as far away from the user's hand/s as possible.

276 realwest  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:16pm

Woops, mom just called out "dinner's ready" so I gotta hop!
Hope I get the chance to see you all down the road tonight!

277 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:08:56pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument?

No, there isn't one argument.

There are dozens of logical and scientific arguments that don't just refute Behe's nonsense, they destroy it utterly:

[Link: www.talkorigins.org...]

278 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:09:15pm

re: #265 jorline

Hi reine.

Soon, a lot of us will be published for the first time...and everyone of us under a pseudonym...lol

LOL - Never thought of it that way.
How cool is that?

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:09:18pm

re: #260 reine.de.tout

Killgore has a komodo dragon?
Is that legal?

The video you posted on the Cookbook web site. Killgore originally posted it here. Some of us passed it on to you.

280 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:09:56pm

re: #254 pre-Boomer Marine brat

When you hear the siding being pried off your house tonight, you'll now know what's trying to get in.

/sleep tight!

hehe,
i'm ready for those little dinosaurs.
i was really stunned at how similar the three toe foot print of a wild turkey is to
fossil dino prints. not to mention how they run. like the raptors in jurassic park.

281 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:10:28pm

re: #258 ArmyWife

Just brilliant, Mandy! We've solved what to do with Iran! We email this link to Ahmadinejad and his head will explode! We save all that travel money, no one gets hurt! Well, no one except Ahmadinejad, but war is a bitch.

Isn't assassination a no-no?

282 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:11:20pm

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The video you posted on the Cookbook web site. Killgore originally posted it here. Some of us passed it on to you.

ok.
duh.

283 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:11:29pm

re: #268 jwb7605


The skinny thingy is "hot", which goes plusity and minusity around zero.

Plusity one for that. I like funny, made up words.

//Merriam and Webster were both fascists!

284 JHW  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:11:33pm

re: #274 sillyquiet

Yes, 1 bronze for each campaign, you can see they are of varying length. A silver is awarded in lieu of 5 bronzes for those that served several tours mostly.

285 pink freud  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:11:51pm

re: #276 realwest

Woops, mom just called out "dinner's ready" so I gotta hop!
Hope I get the chance to see you all down the road tonight!

Totally OT and probably bizarre to boot, but there is something completely assuring and right about RW's mom calling him to dinner about this time every night.

I just like knowing about that little part of his world. Thanks RW. :-)

286 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:11:59pm

re: #281 MandyManners

Oh. Well. There is that, isn't there.

287 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:12:09pm

re: #270 HoosierHoops

See ya in the morning Jorline.. I'm stopping at Starbucks.. I'm not really happy unless my coffee costs more than a gallon of Gas...Plus they want a tip..

lmao

288 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:12:35pm

re: #271 Big Steve

Depends on the device has a transformer to step down the current. Typically TV's, computers and such have circuitry set up to expect the potential to always be negative thus they have to orient to the plug properly. Inductive motors, such as your vacuum cleaner won't care.


Interesting.

289 Lincolntf  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:12:55pm

I'm sorry, and I know Nat'l Geographic has a proud history, but these dinos in Morphed look like they're from a B-movie shot on a backlot in the '70s. Just sayin'.

290 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:13:03pm

re: #274 sillyquiet

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the Silver Star or Bronze Star decorations. These were adornments on his Vietnam service ribbon I thought he once explained to me were indicator of number of tours or something.

291 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:13:17pm
292 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:13:22pm

re: #282 reine.de.tout

ok.
duh.

And I was teasing in the original comment.
Personally, I appreciate you wanting to get it right.

293 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:13:32pm

re: #284 JHW

Yes, 1 bronze for each campaign, you can see they are of varying length. A silver is awarded in lieu of 5 bronzes for those that served several tours mostly.

Ah, ok, thanks.

294 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:14:07pm

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The one eating the pig? Great video, I wish it was better quality.

295 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:14:14pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout
(my original)
Imagine a garden hose.
Turn the water on, and try to keep the water from coming out the end.
The pressure is equivalent to voltage.
The volume of water coming out is equivalent to current.
Resistance is equivalent to the diameter/overall length of the hose.


Actually, it does indeed help a lot. Helps me form that picture in my head that I need to understand things.

Now -
Volt? = voltage
Watt? = volt x current (1 volt x 1 ampere = 1 watt)
Ampere? = current

So, if you have household electricity of 115 volts, and a 500 watt appliance, it is using 500/115 amperes of current, (about 4.3 amps)

It gets more complicated than that, but you can usually just do the math above and get close enough.

296 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:14:23pm

re: #290 sillyquiet

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the Silver Star or Bronze Star decorations. These were adornments on his Vietnam service ribbon I thought he once explained to me were indicator of number of tours or something.

You mean clusters.

297 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:15:06pm

re: #294 Killgore Trout

The one eating the pig? Great video, I wish it was better quality.

Did you know that reine put the link on the cookbook web site?

298 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:15:22pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

The better question is "Can we get away with it?" It's only illegal if you get caught.

:-)

Damn.
No it's not!
Lessons I'm trying to teach my kid . . .
If it's wrong, it's wrong even if no one else knows about it . . .
gonna have to keep her away from you.

299 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:16:09pm

Has the picture of Netanyahu and his hand in Iran's Press TV's 'No return of Golan Heights to Syria' been shopped? (image)

On another subject: Olmert endorses Livni ?

What do you say? oh....

300 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:16:39pm


it's time...

301 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:16:49pm

re: #278 reine.de.tout

LOL - Never thought of it that way.
How cool is that?

Way cool. ;) I'm really looking forward to receiving my copy.

Thanks for all of the hard work you put into this reine.

302 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:17:01pm

re: #295 jwb7605

Ok, thanks.
I've printed it out so I can try to get it into my head.
It may seem simple to some folks, but it's one of those things I always wanted to understand, but just couldn't figure out.

303 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:17:16pm

re: #297 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh, very appropriate.

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:17:19pm

re: #295 jwb7605

Next, you can explain hole versus electron flow in semiconductor junctions.

/just kidding, just kidding

305 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:17:36pm

re: #283 Slumbering Behemoth

Plusity one for that. I like funny, made up words.

//Merriam and Webster were both fascists!

I actually say stuff like that when I'm explaining stuff verbally.
It entertains the 'student', and they tend to remember it better.

306 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:17:45pm

re: #296 screaming_eagle

You mean clusters.

Not if he was in Marines/Navy. We use stars.

307 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:18:05pm

re: #303 Killgore Trout

Heh, very appropriate.

Isn't it though!

308 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:18:11pm

ok Done eating. I'll see if I can give naughty pine some answers.

-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked.

This is the standard plaint of all the DI shills that come here, which might tend to make some suspicious of you. Everyone gets dissed here, not just Christians, it's part of the rough and tumble. Nobody here disses all x, y, or z, instead we tend to focus on the political action groups like DI, ICR, and AIG. The fact that there are many more Christians here than atheists somewhat belies your implication that we are just bashing Christians with these threads.

309 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:19:20pm

re: #296 screaming_eagle

You mean clusters.

Ahhh, ok. Yeah, I spend 10 years as a brat, and currently work for the DoD, but my knowledge of non-technology related military terminology is woefully limited.

310 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:19:43pm

re: #306 rightwinger3

Not if he was in Marines/Navy. We use stars.

Oh OK, another one of those examples of thinks the Marines does bassackwards.

/

311 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:19:50pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

The better question is "Can we get away with it?" It's only illegal if you get caught.

:-)

That calls for a Tool link. Mind the bass. Also, pasty, male-thong warning.

312 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:19:57pm

re: #306 rightwinger3

Not if he was in Marines/Navy. We use stars.

Now you guys are deliberately confusing me. :)

313 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:20:40pm

re: #304 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Next, you can explain hole versus electron flow in semiconductor junctions.

/just kidding, just kidding

When I was in "A" school the super-advanced class spent the whole course determining how far one electron actually went in one year in a mythical power line between Memphis and Chicago.

Seals are smart and strange.

314 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:21:45pm
315 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:21:46pm

re: #310 screaming_eagle

Oh OK, another one of those examples of thinks the Marines does bassackwards.

/

DAMN! ... just saw that you added a sarc tag!
:>(
RATS!
(heh)

316 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:21:52pm

re: #312 sillyquiet

Just so you know, Marines call an aircraft-carrier a boat.

317 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:22:26pm

Coldplay is on the Grammy's right now...!

318 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:23:10pm

There is a thread over at Lucianne.com about Darwin and I was pleasantly surprised to read the comments, science supporters are standing tall.

319 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:23:11pm

continuing to address the assertions cloaked as questions:

-History is full of biased scientists and religious leaders. LGF tends to portray scientists as human machines, incapable of having pre-conceived ideas or bias and Creationist leaders as idiots and liars. Am I correct?


No, you are incorrect. Many people have seen me call Dawkins a rabid secularist, and PZ Meyers the same. On the other hand we've had several threads on Discovery Institute's lies of both omission (quote mining) and commission (kitzmiller trial). These are demonstrated facts. The Discovery institute lies with a regularity that's appalling.
If you search on either phrase in parens above you can find the articles.

320 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:25:35pm

continuing

-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument?


There are multitudes, if you Google "ken miller" either above or in the search bar you will find some of them if you are so inclined, and not just throwing out the cinders of a burnt down strawman.

321 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:25:46pm

Talking jive turkeys... it's so disappointing that Coldplay is starting to suck.......

322 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:26:44pm

re: #312 sillyquiet

Now you guys are deliberately confusing me. :)

Your Dad did 8 tours in Vietnam. 8. Ribbon = 1, silver star (represents 5 bronze stars) on Ribbon = 5, and 2 bronze stars on ribbon = 2 (1 ea). Holy cow.

323 JHW  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:26:54pm

I think clusters such as Oak Leaf clusters are used on the ribbons for multiple awards of medals for merit or valor, for instance a soldier awarded the Bronze Star on 2 separate occasions would wear only 1 ribbon, but with an Oak Leaf Cluster mounted on it. A campaign ribbon uses/used stars for single and multiple awards. Any Iraq/Afghanistan vets here, with the multiple tours of duty some have had, I'm guessing a lot of them would be eligible for multiple awards of their campaign medals? I'm fairly certain all the services have pretty much the same procedure.

324 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:27:00pm

continuing

--I don’t have a major problem with theistic evolutionists.


Most people here don't either, some would argue some fine points with them, but it's free and open discussion.

325 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:27:06pm

re: #316 screaming_eagle

Just so you know, Marines call an aircraft-carrier a boat.

Which is exactly what it is.

326 coquimbojoe  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:27:10pm

re: #321 tradewind

Talking jive turkeys... it's so disappointing that Coldplay is starting to suck.......

Gwyneth Paltrow's next role: Yoko Ono?

327 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:27:28pm

re: #313 jwb7605

When I was in "A" school the super-advanced class spent the whole course determining how far one electron actually went in one year in a mythical power line between Memphis and Chicago.

Seals are smart and strange.

*rolls eyes* ... now THAT is really useful information to know!

A School in '62/'63. One week of semiconductor theory. Everything else was tube.

ARN-52 TACAN (which I worked on) had a solid state power supply. Never quite understood it.

12 years after A School, an engineer I was working for finally hammered into my skull ... "LOOK AT THE CURRENTS!"

*light dawned*
*thumped forehead with palm*

328 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:27:37pm

re: #321 tradewind

Talking jive turkeys... it's so disappointing that Coldplay is starting to suck.......

Coldplay brought down the house!
I love them...

329 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:28:00pm

re: #326 coquimbojoe

She named her daughter Apple. Go figure.

330 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:28:39pm

continuing

-I have a problem with atheists who claim that humans can do anything wrong… or right.

Umm, not getting what you are saying here, humans are demonstrably fallible, but at moments can leap to great heights.

331 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:28:40pm

re: #325 rightwinger3

Which is exactly what it is.

What do you call a battleship?

332 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:28:52pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

I did love them. I think they're slouching towards mediocrity.
(Bringing down the Grammy house.... not such a stretch...)

333 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:13pm

re: #321 tradewind

Starting to?

/ducks and runs

334 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:13pm

re: #331 screaming_eagle

The USS Helen Thomas.

335 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:13pm
336 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:17pm

re: #325 rightwinger3

Which is exactly what it is.

*mutters* ... jarhead!

337 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:18pm

re: #316 screaming_eagle

re: #325 rightwinger3

In my business, they are weapons platforms. I guess to a Marine they are 'Point A to Point B device'. :)re: #322 rightwinger3

Your Dad did 8 tours in Vietnam. 8. Ribbon = 1, silver star (represents 5 bronze stars) on Ribbon = 5, and 2 bronze stars on ribbon = 2 (1 ea). Holy cow.

Thanks for the translation. That is valuable information to me. Appreciate it.

338 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:40pm

it's saturday night...take a break


339 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:47pm

re: #268 jwb7605 "plusity" & "minusity"? Is that the TECHNICAL terms? lol

340 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:51pm

re: #333 Slumbering Behemoth
Heh.

341 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:52pm

Continuing


-Where is LGF on the separation of church & state issue?

People here tend to like the constitution. They include article VI when they say that.

342 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:54pm
343 Perplexed  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:55pm

re: #271 Big Steve

Depends on the device has a transformer to step down the current. Typically TV's, computers and such have circuitry set up to expect the potential to always be negative thus they have to orient to the plug properly. Inductive motors, such as your vacuum cleaner won't care.

Depends on how well the device is insulated from ground. The wide blade vs narrow blade keeps the device from potentially having 120VAC on the case. With single phase equipment this isn't a problem. More of a safety issue than an issue with proper operation. A good link for more information.

344 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:29:55pm

re: #332 tradewind

I did love them. I think they're slouching towards mediocrity.
(Bringing down the Grammy house.... not such a stretch...)

What do you think of Carrie?

345 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:30:20pm

re: #334 tradewind

The USS Helen Thomas.

a dingy

346 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:30:20pm

re: #331 screaming_eagle

What do you call a battleship?

A boat.

347 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:09pm

re: #346 rightwinger3

A boat.

*mutter*
*mutter*
*mutter*

348 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:26pm

re: #300 albusteve

Holy Cow! Did people really dress like that?

349 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:33pm
350 Luigi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:39pm

You must never shoot first.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Gene] Autry created the Cowboy Code, or Cowboy Commandments, in response to his young radio listeners aspiring to be just like Gene.

1. The Cowboy must never shoot first, hit a smaller man, or take unfair advantage.
2. He must never go back on his word, or a trust confided in him.
3. He must always tell the truth.
4. He must be gentle with children, the elderly, and animals.
5. He must not advocate or possess racially or religiously intolerant ideas.
6. He must help people in distress.
7. He must be a good worker.
8. He must keep himself clean in thought, speech, action, and personal habits.
9. He must respect women, parents, and his nation's laws.
10. The Cowboy is a patriot.

351 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:53pm

re: #346 rightwinger3

A boat.

A battleboat. Yeh, I remember reading about the Japanese surrender aboard a US battleboat.

352 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:31:59pm

re: #344 HoosierHoops

The singer or the movie?
Seriously, I think she's come a long way. She's good at what she does.
One of AI's success stories.

353 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:32:23pm

re: #341 Thanos

Dear Thanos, are you suggesting that article has separation language included?

354 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:32:28pm

re: #338 albusteve

it's saturday night...take a break

[Video]

Um...I'd really love for it to be Saturday, but I'm pretty sure it's Sunday.

Even if I'm light-headed and mildly hallucinatory, I don't think I lost an entire week....

355 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:15pm

Why would Coldplay wear Beatlesque outfits with Sir Paul in attendance? That made them look like wannabes to me.

356 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:28pm

and finally

-Science seems to be creating its own high priesthood, where issues can only be debated by scientists, not laymen.

This is one of the arguments that DI shills throw out, in an attempt to discredit science. The larger ethical issues must be debated with both scientists and laymen, that's why keeping science education empirical and factual is very important. Introducing supernatural explanations opens a pandora's box that makes all discussion meaningless. Harun Yahya, crystal gazing, religion, UFO conspiracies all become tenable in place of what we know and what we can test and observe.

357 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:33pm

re: #322 rightwinger3

I stand in awe. Thank the Lord for our military.

358 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:44pm

re: #355 Crimsonfisted

Why would Coldplay wear Beatlesque outfits with Sir Paul in attendance? That made them look like wannabes to me.

they are already U2 wannabees

359 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:55pm

re: #347 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*mutter*
*mutter*
*mutter*

I know the difference between a rifle and a gun

360 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:33:57pm

re: #342 Iron Fist

They are great live. I've seen them several times and have never heard them fuck up. But I'm not a musician, either.

361 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:34:18pm

re: #353 ArmyWife

Dear Thanos, are you suggesting that article has separation language included?

It depends on how steeped one is in the history of the era.

362 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:34:22pm

re: #352 tradewind

The singer or the movie?
Seriously, I think she's come a long way. She's good at what she does.
One of AI's success stories.

I just knew Sugarland was going to win! Kudo's

363 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:34:42pm

re: #351 screaming_eagle

A battleboat. Yeh, I remember reading about the Japanese surrender aboard a US battleboat.

Me too eagle, me too.

364 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:00pm

re: #349 Iron Fist

I'll get over it.
Now that I think of it though, the thing I was going for with her was Battleaxe.

365 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:06pm
366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:20pm

re: #334 tradewind

That's a battle-axe, not a battleship.

367 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:36pm

re: #350 Luigi

Wow! That is so out of place at that event! How many times did Ryan Seacrest ask people tonight "So how many more hours of community service ya' got left?" :)

368 Arashi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:45pm

From T-Rex to turkey...

...oh how the mighty have fallen. *snicker*

369 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:35:55pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth

There's a difference.

370 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:36:03pm

re: #317 HoosierHoops
The lead singer's wife is a snotty bitch who prefers to live in England because Americans are "just not as educated" as Europeans. Also, they named their kid "Apple". WTF?

371 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:36:17pm

re: #359 rightwinger3

Heh
It says "Embedding disabled by request", but I guessed right about the subject.

372 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:36:30pm

re: #353 ArmyWife

Dear Thanos, are you suggesting that article has separation language included?


...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
373 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:36:30pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth

See # 364 above...

374 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:36:52pm

re: #370 UberInfidel67

Yes, because Gwyneth Paltrow is a member of the intellectual elite.

375 albusteve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:37:05pm

re: #354 Dianna

Um...I'd really love for it to be Saturday, but I'm pretty sure it's Sunday.

Even if I'm light-headed and mildly hallucinatory, I don't think I lost an entire week....

oh well...things dont always work out...

376 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:37:34pm
377 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:37:56pm

re: #373 tradewind

Ya beat me by 20 seconds. Man, this is a tough crowd.

378 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:38:19pm

re: #371 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh
It says "Embedding disabled by request", but I guessed right about the subject.

yeah sorry here it is for all those that just gotta see it.

379 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:38:29pm

re: #363 rightwinger3

Not only did you walk into that, your gonna defend it.

380 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:38:45pm

re: #314 Iron Fist

I got asked if I was a Hell's Angel at the grocery store today. I was highly amused. I bet that's never happened to you!

:-)

ooph!
Not hardly!

381 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:39:13pm
382 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:39:33pm

re: #372 Thanos

And that has what to do with the separation of Church and State? All that says is being of a specific religion cannot be considered a qualifier to holding public office nor can you exclude members of certain religions as a qualifier to holding public office.

383 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:40:10pm

re: #374 ArmyWife
YOu have got an EXCELLENT sense of humor! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

384 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:40:25pm

re: #378 rightwinger3

Hmmm, now why didn't Jack Webb put that into the movie "The D.I."?

385 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:40:28pm

re: #370 UberInfidel67

You have to give her some props for even daring to set foot on a stage since her mother is Blythe Danner. What a tough act to follow, as a Mom and as an actor....
But she is annoying, for sure.

386 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:40:33pm

re: #379 screaming_eagle

Not only did you walk into that, your gonna defend it.

Marines aren't good at defending, but we are good at offending.

387 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:40:42pm

re: #370 UberInfidel67

The lead singer's wife is a snotty bitch who prefers to live in England because Americans are "just not as educated" as Europeans. Also, they named their kid "Apple". WTF?

Does she speak a second language...like Arabic or whatever the dominate muslim tongue is in England?

388 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:41:26pm

re: #376 buzzsawmonkey
Dodsworth. So noted.

389 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:41:34pm

re: #370 UberInfidel67

The lead singer's wife is a snotty bitch who prefers to live in England because Americans are "just not as educated" as Europeans. Also, they named their kid "Apple". WTF?

LOL.. I have wondered why Zappa named his girl moon unit..why the greatest musician have the wackiest world view...When mama and her girl friends get up to Karoke Earl has got to die by the Dixie Chicks.I don't go..well their political views suck so I hate this song..Music and politics don't mix.

390 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:41:45pm

re: #383 UberInfidel67

Thanks! I'll point this out to my husband. He seems to think I am somewhat sarcastic and caustically so!

391 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:42:08pm

re: #370 UberInfidel67

The lead singer's wife is a snotty bitch who prefers to live in England because Americans are "just not as educated" as Europeans. Also, they named their kid "Apple". WTF?

Look at how educated she is.

392 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:42:21pm

Simon and Garfunkel are in the men's room hurling over Duffy and Al Green's butchering even two lines of BOTW.....

393 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:42:39pm

re: #387 jorline
ZING!

394 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:42:59pm

re: #382 ArmyWife

It says that no religious test can be required. That means no religion can control the govt, seems pretty "separative" to me. On the other hand we are not likely to see an atheist president this century either.

395 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:43:16pm

Coldplay wins song of the year!

396 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:43:42pm

re: #390 ArmyWife
No no no....you just forgot the *eyeroll* Maybe because we are both woman I caught the joke. lol lol lol

397 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:43:46pm

re: #392 tradewind

Simon and Garfunkel are in the men's room hurling over Duffy and Al Green's butchering even two lines of BOTW.....


I was thinking EXACTLY that!

398 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:43:49pm
399 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:43:51pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

Good ol' Frank Zappa. I thought Dweezil was hot when I was a teenager, but he doesn't strike me as that any longer.

400 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:44:10pm

re: #386 rightwinger3

By convincing us that the Japs surrendered aboard a battleboat. When every history book I've ever read says they surrendered on a battleship. Must teach you guys secret code words huh?

401 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:44:23pm

re: #42 srmoss

Funny how a narrator with the British accent can give something as ridiculous as this a degree of credibility. Good thing Crichton stuck with the raptors in Jurassic Park.

Umm...it's the paleontology that makes it credible. In other words, the empirical science.

I suppose you think that Benny Hinn and Rick Warren lend creationism credibility.

402 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:44:49pm

re: #387 jorline

Her role in Shakespeare in Love went to her ( empty) head, and now a PseudoBrit.

403 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:44:54pm

re: #394 Thanos

It says that no religious test can be required. That means no religion can control the govt, seems pretty "separative" to me. On the other hand we are not likely to see an atheist president this century either.

Obama might be an atheist. I think you mean will not have an openly atheist president.

404 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:44:55pm

re: #394 Thanos

I agree, we are not going to be theocratic, but that doesn't mean religion doesn't play a role in our government - it always has, hence the invocation of G-d in the Constitution.

405 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:45:33pm

re: #402 tradewind

Her role in Shakespeare in Love went to her ( empty) head, and now a PseudoBrit.

with her fake British accent in real life.
Her and Madonna.
They move to England and in a few weeks they are speaking with a fake British accent.

406 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:45:41pm

re: #391 Shug
Just remember, to the Euros and most Americans that choose to live there, we are still "colonials". The only time others rely on us "colonials" is when some ass kicking needs done and they are too polite to do it themselves.

407 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:45:43pm

re: #397 Crimsonfisted

SACRILEGE! Off with their heads, it's worse than the allah cartoons.
Kid Rock, on the other hand, well,... rocks.

408 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:45:49pm

re: #403 HelloDare

Obama might be an atheist. I think you mean will not have an openly atheist president.

I think he worships himself and has no other before the Big O.

409 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:45:57pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

LOL.. I have wondered why Zappa named his girl moon unit..why the greatest musician have the wackiest world view...When mama and her girl friends get up to Karoke Earl has got to die by the Dixie Chicks.I don't go..well their political views suck so I hate this song..Music and politics don't mix.

I hate that song!
It is so awful - not necessarily the music, but the song itself is terrible.
I wouldn't let young Reine listen to it.

410 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:13pm
411 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:46pm

Kid Rock just keeps getting better every year.. like fine wine..who would have thunk it?

412 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:46pm

re: #386 rightwinger3

Do boats float?

413 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:48pm

re: #404 ArmyWife

I agree, we are not going to be theocratic, but that doesn't mean religion doesn't play a role in our government - it always has, hence the invocation of G-d in the Constitution.

I happen to like article VI a lot because it's a real burr under the saddle of hard core reconstructionists like Rushdoony and North.

414 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:49pm

re: #398 buzzsawmonkey
I say this freely as a woman: Sometimes a bitch just needs slapped. IF I was being a stupid annoying bitch, I would expect someone to crack me one and straighten my ass out.

415 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:51pm
416 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:46:53pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

What "invocation of G-d in the Constitution?"

what about the Presidential Oath of office?

417 Gort  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:47:20pm

I posted this as a spin-off link on the last thread, but it's probably on-topic on this one.

Says the Detroit Free Press: "See Obama Jive Turkey in yourself -- and take a photo for our gallery. We've got a photo of Obama Jive Turkey you can cut out for yourself -- click here to download it. Then follow the instructions, take a picture and send it to us here. Tell us what part of Obama Jive Turkey is in you and we'll add your comments to your photo."

/I hope they will offer me the opportunity to buy a commemorative coin or dinner-plate with my picture of me and Dear-Leader-in-me

418 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:47:22pm

re: #414 UberInfidel67

I say this freely as a woman: Sometimes a bitch just needs slapped. IF I was being a stupid annoying bitch, I would expect someone to crack me one and straighten my ass out.

**WHACK**

419 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:47:31pm

re: #398 buzzsawmonkey

I do not approve of slapping women, but they do make it very hard to stand by that principle.

They do indeed.
Two completely empty heads
Beautiful, but nothing there.

420 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:02pm

re: #404 ArmyWife

I agree, we are not going to be theocratic, but that doesn't mean religion doesn't play a role in our government - it always has, hence the invocation of G-d in the Constitution.

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

What "invocation of G-d in the Constitution?"

Pass the popcorn - I think we have us two lawyers about to have a disagreement!

421 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:05pm

re: #416 Shug

Did you say the president's an oaf in office?

422 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:09pm

Krugman on the ABC evening news, banging the party drum, "The Republicans have got everything they wanted for the past eight years, and it's been the worst eight years since the great depression."

This is a nobel prize winner folks.

Y'know, like Jimmy Carter and Yasir Arafat.

423 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:12pm
424 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:23pm

re: #409 reine.de.tout

I hate that song!
It is so awful - not necessarily the music, but the song itself is terrible.
I wouldn't let young Reine listen to it.

You should hear mrs. hoopster and her girl friends sing it drunk...
just about then I'm calling a taxi...

425 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:26pm

re: #416 Shug

what about the Presidential Oath of office?

One does not add "So help me, God" if one affirms, as a Quaker would, for instance.

426 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:37pm
427 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:40pm

re: #416 Shug

what about the Presidential Oath of office?

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

428 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:49:43pm

re: #421 tradewind

Did you say the president's an oaf in office?

Eight days a week, babe.

429 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:50:22pm

re: #418 Shug
I firmly stand by that. I had a sister in law who was a real bitch. She thought she could slap the hell out of my brother because she was a girl, AKA the weaker sex. It was disrespectful and totally uncalled for. He should have cracked that bitch one time. It would have straightened her out. If you don't want to be hit, don't hit others. The same rule we teach our children.

430 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:50:41pm

re: #400 screaming_eagle

By convincing us that the Japs surrendered aboard a battleboat. When every history book I've ever read says they surrendered on a battleship. Must teach you guys secret code words huh?

Well now that's different. We wouldn't call it the battleboat. Say you're on libo gettin' drunk. It's 02 and you need to get back. That's when it's called the boat. "Hey bro, I'm f'd up let's get back to the boat". So it's a boat.

431 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:50:56pm

Perhaps ArmyWife was referring to "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence?

432 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:52:09pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

What "invocation of G-d in the Constitution?"

Here's the Constitution I invite you to search for the word "God" as Buzzsawmonkey suggests

[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]

433 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:52:37pm
434 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:52:59pm

re: #412 screaming_eagle

Do boats float?

Most of the time.

435 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:53:04pm

re: #432 Thanos

Here's the Constitution I invite you to search for the word "God" as Buzzsawmonkey suggests

[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]


It's right there next to the Right to Privacy

/

436 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:53:22pm

re: #433 buzzsawmonkey

Or, in the same document, "the law of Nature and of Nature's God." But that's the Declaration, not the Constitution--and the Declaration has no legal force whatsoever.

Thank you Al.
/

437 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:53:30pm

re: #415 Iron Fist

Yep, that's why I said it's not likely this century, we are a very small and much picked upon minority.

438 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:53:46pm

re: #430 rightwinger3

Well I gotta run.
Otherwise we could move the conversation from battleboat to what is a Submarine.

439 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:53:54pm

Tossing this one out -- re separation of church & state, and religious test

Historical context, ladies and gentlemen.

The Constitution was written only a little more than a century after the end of the English religious wars -- the Glorious Revolution of 1688. It's helpful to keep those wars and the Glorious Revolution in mind when discussing this subject.

440 Empire1  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:01pm

re: #206 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Dad enlisted in December of '39. When they created E-8 and E-9, the first 50 E-8s were selected for meritorious promotion. He was one of those.

/insufferable pride mode "off"

Justifiable pride, I should say, not insufferable! Kudos to him from a far less accomplished -- but still proud -- former Marine.

441 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:06pm

re: #428 itellu3times
Such a great, great song. I'm gonna disassociate him from it.
But.... yeah.

442 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:25pm
443 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:27pm

re: #433 buzzsawmonkey

Or, in the same document, "the law of Nature and of Nature's God." But that's the Declaration, not the Constitution--and the Declaration has no legal force whatsoever.

Yes, thank you.

444 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:33pm

re: #438 screaming_eagle

Well I gotta run.
Otherwise we could move the conversation from battleboat to what is a Submarine.

Damn eagle...it's a boat.

445 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:35pm

re: #423 buzzsawmonkey

I don't see any invocation of any deity there.


I stand corrected. I actually looked it up and read the history of inserting " So Help me God" at the end.
Customary but not mandatory

446 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:54:37pm

re: #393 UberInfidel67

ZING!

lmao...shows you how much I follow the hollywood elite, I didn't know it was Gwyneth Paltrow and had to goggle it.

She sucks and so do her political views...I couldn't give two shits what the "beautiful people" think.

447 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:55:06pm

re: #442 buzzsawmonkey

I hate to miss out on a joke, even when I am the butt of it. But I don't get this one.

no controlling legal authority gore.

448 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:55:36pm
449 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:55:40pm

re: #442 buzzsawmonkey

AlGore.

450 Big Steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:55:55pm

re: #416 Shug

what about the Presidential Oath of office?

Go to any website that has the complete text of the US constitution. Then use your find button and type in God (or god). You will get the message "text not found." period, end of argument here.

451 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:56:22pm

re: #444 rightwinger3

Damn eagle...it's a boat.

I know that's what you think it is, Just running out of time to stay and listen to you explain why a Sub is a boat.

452 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:56:28pm

re: #440 Empire1

Justifiable pride, I should say, not insufferable! Kudos to him from a far less accomplished -- but still proud -- former Marine.

Thank you, on his behalf.

453 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:56:31pm

re: #446 jorline

lmao...shows you how much I follow the hollywood elite, I didn't know it was Gwyneth Paltrow and had to goggle it.

She sucks and so do her political views...I couldn't give two shits what the "beautiful people" think.

Let's keep Paltrow to "Hollywood Elite". She is definitely not in the "beautiful people" category.

454 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:56:59pm

re: #450 Big Steve

Go to any website that has the complete text of the US constitution. Then use your find button and type in God (or god). You will get the message "text not found." period, end of argument here.

sounds like another conspiracy by the atheists.
/

455 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:57:04pm

What a bummer that Taylor Swift is centerstage of the Grammys.

456 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:57:19pm

re: #442 buzzsawmonkey

(See, we toldyouthreetimes). So far...
:)

457 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:57:52pm

re: #439 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Tossing this one out -- re separation of church & state, and religious test

Historical context, ladies and gentlemen.

The Constitution was written only a little more than a century after the end of the English religious wars -- the Glorious Revolution of 1688. It's helpful to keep those wars and the Glorious Revolution in mind when discussing this subject.

The other thing to remember is that back then there were also many other offshoots, branches, and schisms within Christianity than the large consolidated churches you see today. There were even sailor's churches, and subcults of sailor's churches, along with some flavors that blended paganism with Christianity, somewhat like some versions of Catholic "Santaria" that you see in New Orleans and other places today.

458 Big Steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:57:57pm

re: #454 itellu3times

sounds like another conspiracy by the atheists.
/

that damn Ben Franklin!

459 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:58:02pm

I did a search of the Federalist Papers online awhile ago to see how many times God or religion was mentioned. I don't believe god was. I also searched euphemisms for god, like father and...I forget what else. Religion was mentioned, I forget, 9 or 10. Don't remember the exact number. It usually had to do with stuff like beware of foreign intrigue from political parties, religion... stuff like that. Alexander Hamilton was a very religious man, yet he did not refer to god in the Federalist Papers.

460 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:58:10pm

Charles, new thread: Livebloggin' the Grammys.

461 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:59:27pm

re: #455 HoosierHoops Why a shame? I admire her talent. She is so young yet so driven. Plus, my son is in love with her. lol

462 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:59:36pm

Hi there.

463 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:59:39pm
464 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 5:59:51pm

re: #453 rightwinger3

Let's keep Paltrow to "Hollywood Elite". She is definitely not in the "beautiful people" category.

Trust me, the hollywood elite and beautiful people tags were dripping in sarcasm.

465 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:00:25pm

re: #459 HelloDare

I did a search of the Federalist Papers online awhile ago to see how many times God or religion was mentioned. I don't believe god was. I also searched euphemisms for god, like father and...I forget what else. Religion was mentioned, I forget, 9 or 10. Don't remember the exact number. It usually had to do with stuff like beware of foreign intrigue from political parties, religion... stuff like that. Alexander Hamilton was a very religious man, yet he did not refer to god in the Federalist Papers.

That's because to the founding fathers your religion was your business, and not everyone else's. I like that notion. When religion goes political is when it gets in trouble, almost every time if you review history.

466 Crimsonfisted  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:00:25pm

wow. Robert Plant seems to have lost his British accent.

467 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:00:51pm
468 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:01pm

re: #451 screaming_eagle

I know that's what you think it is, Just running out of time to stay and listen to you explain why a Sub is a boat.

I'm sure you'll tell me if I get it wrong, but here goes. It floats, has Navy guys in it. Then it sinks. The difference with this one is that if it sinks it can come back up.

/someone help me out eagle has me on the ropes.

469 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:18pm

re: #459 HelloDare

I did a search of the Federalist Papers online awhile ago to see how many times God or religion was mentioned. I don't believe god was. I also searched euphemisms for god, like father and...I forget what else. Religion was mentioned, I forget, 9 or 10. Don't remember the exact number. It usually had to do with stuff like beware of foreign intrigue from political parties, religion... stuff like that. Alexander Hamilton was a very religious man, yet he did not refer to god in the Federalist Papers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but religion was hardly any kind of an issue in American (national) politics, 1776 to about, oh, last year, after a decade or two of fulminations by the Democrats about the evangelicals being mostly on the Republican side.

470 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:33pm

re: #463 buzzsawmonkey

When I was in school, back in the Pleistocene, we were forced to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution

Bah. We learned to sing it.

471 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:46pm

re: #463 buzzsawmonkey
Let me just say, if you were to write a book....no matter what the topic...I would buy it. LMAO @ Pleistocene era

472 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:46pm

re: #460 tradewind

Charles, new thread: Livebloggin' the Grammys.


re: #465 Thanos

That's because to the founding fathers your religion was your business, and not everyone else's. I like that notion. When religion goes political is when it gets in trouble, almost every time if you review history.

Yes. They had, what, 11 years between the Declaration of Independence and the passing of the Constitution. God was left out for a reason.

473 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:01:51pm

re: #462 Occasional Reader

Hi there.

Ho there.

474 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:02:07pm

Mosaic Law, ten commandments. Bill of Rights, ten amendments. Happy accident, or not?

/just sayin'

475 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:02:38pm

re: #466 Crimsonfisted

wow. Robert Plant seems to have lost his British accent.

Does he have a slight Arabic inflection?

476 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:02:51pm

re: #463 buzzsawmonkey

You forget "in order to form a more perfect union". See how effective singing is?

477 Shug  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:02:55pm

re: #474 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Mosaic Law, ten commandments. Bill of Rights, ten amendments. Happy accident, or not?

/just sayin'


Top 10 comments

LGF is indeed Holy

478 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:02:59pm

re: #466 Crimsonfisted

wow. Robert Plant seems to have lost his British accent.

Jennifer Hudson is just knocking it out of the park...I feel so bad for her

479 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:10pm

re: #468 rightwinger3

Watercraft = boat.

(Fan of the Marines)

480 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:27pm

Any shots at Bush or Hallowed Be Thy Obama speeches at the Grammy's?

481 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:40pm
482 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:44pm

re: #460 tradewind

Charles, new thread: Livebloggin' the Grammys.

Hey, it will take another two hours for the signal to get from Staples Center in Los Angeles to the east coast, then back to the west coast where we can see it.

Or is it streaming someplace?

483 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:52pm

re: #381 Iron Fist

They're about the tightest live band I've seen, so it's definitely worth the money to see them.

A little tip if you do see 'em: They usually have a screen or two with a bunch of really intense CGI stuff, so hallucinogens are not recommended.

484 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:53pm
485 Big Steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:53pm

re: #463 buzzsawmonkey

When I was in school, back in the Pleistocene, we were forced to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution--and were taught to note specifically that the Preamble references the people, not any greater power:

Quoted from memory; there may be a comma or two out of place, but in this instance I specifically refrained from cut and paste. Some things should be committed to memory.

When the future Mrs Big Steve to be and I were deciding on our wedding ceremony, neither of us being particularly religious, I suggested we just quote the constitution, especially the "domestic tranquility" part. She declined. I should have insisted. Then I could have brought her nagging up as a civil rights violation!

486 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:03:58pm

re: #473 MandyManners

Ho there.

No, Ho there...

487 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:04:43pm

re: #474 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Mosaic Law, ten commandments. Bill of Rights, ten amendments. Happy accident, or not?

/just sayin'

There were eleven, but the first one was "First!" and it was deleted.

488 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:04:44pm

re: #463 buzzsawmonkey

When I was in school, back in the Pleistocene, we were forced to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution--and were taught to note specifically that the Preamble references the people, not any greater power:

Quoted from memory; there may be a comma or two out of place, but in this instance I specifically refrained from cut and paste. Some things should be committed to memory.

I learned it on the "Conjunction Junction" thingy. Pretty good but you left out "in order to form a more perfect union"

489 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:04:48pm

re: #462 Occasional Reader

Hi there.

Hi, OR.

Get surreal, quick. I'm operating on possibly an hour's sleep in the last 48.

This is your chance to see how far you can take my head.

490 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:04:55pm

re: #467 buzzsawmonkey

Trans-Planted?

I think his sexual preferences are none of your business.

491 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:05:03pm

re: #457 Thanos

The other thing to remember is that back then there were also many other offshoots, branches, and schisms within Christianity than the large consolidated churches you see today. There were even sailor's churches, and subcults of sailor's churches, along with some flavors that blended paganism with Christianity, somewhat like some versions of Catholic "Santaria" that you see in New Orleans and other places today.

Yes.

However (and having forgotten my Constitutional Convention, Federalist Papers, etc, stuff), I suspect that one can use Occam's Razor to find 1688 as the source of what was put into the Constitution.

The (former) Englishmen in Philadelphia would have been VERY much aware of it.

492 kcladderman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:05:16pm

re: #466 Crimsonfisted

wow. Robert Plant seems to have lost his British accent.

Didn't he give his to Madonna?

493 Aviator  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:05:16pm

re: #468 rightwinger3

I'm sure you'll tell me if I get it wrong, but here goes. It floats, has Navy guys in it. Then it sinks. The difference with this one is that if it sinks it can come back up.

/someone help me out eagle has me on the ropes.

Comes from undersea boat U-boat. Early subs were small, sometimes operated from a larger ship therefore "boat" applied. Term stuck.

494 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:05:28pm
495 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:05:39pm

re: #477 Shug

Top 10 comments

LGF is indeed Holy

The power of "TEN"!

496 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:06:19pm

re: #469 itellu3times

Correct me if I'm wrong, but religion was hardly any kind of an issue in American (national) politics, 1776 to about, oh, last year, after a decade or two of fulminations by the Democrats about the evangelicals being mostly on the Republican side.

I'm not going to tackle the whole history of religion in national American politics--for one thing, I don't have the background--but look up some of the things that were said during Kennedy's campaign about his religion.

497 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:06:26pm

re: #489 Dianna

Hi, OR.

Get surreal, quick. I'm operating on possibly an hour's sleep in the last 48.

This is your chance to see how far you can take my head.

Let me start with the real, not the surreal. So; every time I've taken my Kimber to the range, I've had to tighten the grips afterwards because they felt loose. Is this normal for break-in? Or do I need to call Kimber and say "fix it"?

498 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:06:56pm

re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not going to tackle the whole history of religion in national American politics--for one thing, I don't have the background--but look up some of the things that were said during Kennedy's campaign about his religion.

Catholics had guns in the basement!

/never could figure out why that was bad ....

499 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:06:58pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, I generalized a bit too much, and though the Presidential Oath has historically included "so help me G-d" (insofar as has been documented, that is), it isn't written in the Constitution itself, unless you want to stretch the "in the year of our Lord". The Declaration of Independence refers to a "Creator" and inalienable rights. And (trying to save myself here), almost every single State Constitution references G-D. Heck, Maryland's says you have to believe in G-d to hold public office! Wonder how that would go over right now.

PS - I have no problems with people who don't believe in G-d, I just take issue with Christmas Trees being banished under a separation clause that doesn't exist.

500 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:04pm

re: #480 jorline

Any shots at Bush or Hallowed Be Thy Obama speeches at the Grammy's?

No just straight up music awards..If I hear the song I kissed a girl in one more commercial I may jump out the window.. /don't worry it's only 4 feet..

501 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:27pm

re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not going to tackle the whole history of religion in national American politics--for one thing, I don't have the background--but look up some of the things that were said during Kennedy's campaign about his religion.

Yeah but he won.

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:34pm

re: #498 jwb7605

Catholics had guns in the basement!

/never could figure out why that was bad ....

Because they would use them to shoot you if they were told to by 'the Pope of Rome'.

/

503 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:46pm

Best damn rendition of "Risky Business" I've ever seen.

Guitar Hero commercial rocks.

504 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:51pm

re: #484 buzzsawmonkey

Well, that just shoots me all to pieces.

You've gone to pieces? I'm in-Klined to agree.

505 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:52pm

re: #478 HoosierHoops

I know. She looks gorgeous tonight though, bless her heart.
re: #480 jorline
Well, stay tuned, the Jonas Boyz [sic]are on deck, so there might be some Obama daughter shout-outs.
Then again, probably not. BHO would not be pleased. The dolls did not go over well at all.

506 kcladderman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:52pm

re: #479 UberInfidel67

Watercraft = boat.

(Fan of the Marines)

I lived on a 1064' ft boat for almost four years. We always called the Independence our boat. We would say going back to the boat, we left it on the boat. We never called it a ship.

507 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:07:53pm

I suppose Iran just doesn't see the change that has overcome the US since The Big O is Number 1:

Iran Denies Visas For U.S. Badminton Team


Iran is hosting an international women's badminton tournament this weekend. A U.S. team was invited, but at the last minute, visas for the players and coaches were revoked by the Iranian foreign ministry.


Perhaps the badminton team is nothing more than front for a spy racket.

508 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:08:17pm

re: #468 rightwinger3

I'm sure you'll tell me if I get it wrong, but here goes. It floats, has Navy guys in it. Then it sinks. The difference with this one is that if it sinks it can come back up.

/someone help me out eagle has me on the ropes.

A submarine is called a boat by tradition. That's all that's needed.

509 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:08:32pm

re: #479 UberInfidel67

Watercraft = boat.

(Fan of the Marines)

That's what I've been saying. Basically. I don't think screaming_eagle is too happy with me though.

510 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:08:34pm

re: #482 itellu3times

Oh, details.
Semi-live, then.

511 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:09:02pm

re: #494 buzzsawmonkey

re: #488 rightwinger3

I learned it on the "Conjunction Junction" thingy. Pretty good but you left out "in order to form a more perfect union"

OR just got me on that. Oh, is my face red.

And white and blue. I've got a cream, though.

It's disheartening to see that the unions got in on the act right from the beginning.

512 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:09:09pm

re: #469 itellu3times

Correct me if I'm wrong, but religion was hardly any kind of an issue in American (national) politics, 1776 to about, oh, last year, after a decade or two of fulminations by the Democrats about the evangelicals being mostly on the Republican side.

Quite incorrect.

We had quite a striking anti-Catholic period. And, we also got excited about the Masons - though whether that's a religious issue is questionable.

Look up the "burnt over districts"; look (if you're comfortable with it) at the origins of Mormonism in the 1830's, and of spiritualism (the Fox sisters), and of Christian Science and Seventh Day Adventism and Theosophy.

These are only the movements I personally have a more than nodding acquaintance with, and all engendered serious debates and civil measures.

513 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:09:35pm

re: #494 buzzsawmonkey

OR just got me on that. Oh, is my face red.

And white and blue. I've got a cream, though.

Actually those are good colors...don't use the cream.

514 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:09:43pm

re: #472 HelloDare

Yes. They had, what, 11 years between the Declaration of Independence and the passing of the Constitution. God was left out for a reason.

One of the very clear reasons if you look back at the history is that some colonies did have established religions in their charters. They didn't want holy wars here.

515 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:09:44pm

re: #510 tradewind

Oh, details.
Semi-live, then.

Go ahead, just saying, I won't be adding much.

516 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:10:22pm

re: #486 Occasional Reader

No, Ho there...

Cany your butt move this fast?

517 tradewind  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:10:33pm

re: #507 solomonpanting

Better get HRC on it with some shuttle(cock) diplomacy...

518 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:11pm

re: #498 jwb7605

Catholics had guns in the basement!

/never could figure out why that was bad ....

Dang, if THAT had been true, I'd still be Catholic!

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:36pm

re: #501 itellu3times

Yeah but he won.


Sure. That doesn't mean it wasn't an issue, just that by that point, for that candidate, it wasn't a disqualifying issue.

We've been workin' this out for a long time. Jefferson's famous letter to the Danbury CT Baptists (in which he appears to coin that lovely phrase 'a wall of separation between church and state') was in response to concerns of theirs about religious freedom in Connecticut. 180something.

520 kcladderman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:36pm

re: #507 solomonpanting

I suppose Iran just doesn't see the change that has overcome the US since The Big O is Number 1:

Iran Denies Visas For U.S. Badminton Team

I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I JUST READ!

We have a badminton team?

521 Wishing  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:38pm

re: #497 Occasional Reader

Let me start with the real, not the surreal. So; every time I've taken my Kimber to the range, I've had to tighten the grips afterwards because they felt loose. Is this normal for break-in? Or do I need to call Kimber and say "fix it"?

I never heard of this happening, and certainly not with any of my guns. I would give them a call tomorrow.

522 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:43pm

The Jonas Brothers are performing with Stevie Wonder at the Grammy's.
I am horrified!

523 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:11:44pm
524 jwb7605  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #460 tradewind

Charles, new thread: Livebloggin' the Grammys.

He done it! See comments in the open thread.

525 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:13:06pm

Wishing and IF-- thanks. And, phooey. How disappointing.

526 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:13:10pm

re: #512 Dianna

Quite incorrect.

We had quite a striking anti-Catholic period. And, we also got excited about the Masons - though whether that's a religious issue is questionable.

Look up the "burnt over districts"; look (if you're comfortable with it) at the origins of Mormonism in the 1830's, and of spiritualism (the Fox sisters), and of Christian Science and Seventh Day Adventism and Theosophy.

These are only the movements I personally have a more than nodding acquaintance with, and all engendered serious debates and civil measures.

So, which party, and which candidates, rode on these issues?

A quick Google to Wikipedia doesn't seem to show any political involvement. I'm sure there may have been some, especially local, but I did specify "national".

527 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:13:12pm

re: #497 Occasional Reader

Let me start with the real, not the surreal. So; every time I've taken my Kimber to the range, I've had to tighten the grips afterwards because they felt loose. Is this normal for break-in? Or do I need to call Kimber and say "fix it"?

The latter. I've never had to adjust my grips.

528 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:13:12pm

re: #499 ArmyWife

Actually, I generalized a bit too much, and though the Presidential Oath has historically included "so help me G-d" (insofar as has been documented, that is), it isn't written in the Constitution itself, unless you want to stretch the "in the year of our Lord". The Declaration of Independence refers to a "Creator" and inalienable rights. And (trying to save myself here), almost every single State Constitution references G-D. Heck, Maryland's says you have to believe in G-d to hold public office! Wonder how that would go over right now.

PS - I have no problems with people who don't believe in G-d, I just take issue with Christmas Trees being banished under a separation clause that doesn't exist.


It's legal as long as it's not federal, it took several years after the constitution for some colonies to abolish their established religion, I forget which one was the last.

529 jorline  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:13:40pm

re: #505 tradewind

I know. She looks gorgeous tonight though, bless her heart.
re: #480 jorline
Well, stay tuned, the Jonas Boyz [sic]are on deck, so there might be some Obama daughter shout-outs.
Then again, probably not. BHO would not be pleased. The dolls did not go over well at all.

I just told my 11 yo daughter they were on...she said she could care less, she loves country...lol

530 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:14:07pm

re: #527 Dianna

The latter. I've never had to adjust my grips.

More "thanks", and more "phooey".

531 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:14:20pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

I feel a little like like a meat cutter applying for membership with PETA, but here goes...
I’ve enjoyed reading LGF for the past month, but I’m still trying to figure out the culture. Seems like the evolution/creation debate is a big deal. Some of you appear to be really tired of talking with religious people about the subject, yet articles continue to be posted.

Only the people who want to see the subversion of the science education of America's children by religious dogma in public high schools to proceed under the public radar do not want to see this discussion continue here because of the public attention it might draw to the issue. And most of the religious people, if by religious you mean Judeo-Christian, as you most probably do, ACCEPT evolutionary theory; the Roman Catholic Church, for instance.

My ideas/questions regarding the evolution/creation debate:
-Seems like a lot of group think going on here, with religious views often dissed and mocked.

Genesis Literalist Creationists are advocating the indoctrination of our youth in empirically disproven dogmas in public schools. This cynical and malignant effort richly deserves to be denounced. Most Christians and Jews aren't Genesis Literalists, and for good reason; it requires massive reality denial.

-History is full of biased scientists and religious leaders. LGF tends to portray scientists as human machines, incapable of having pre-conceived ideas or bias and Creationist leaders as idiots and liars. Am I correct?

No. Individual scientists can be biased, but science as a peer-reviewed process, with experiments repeatedly checked by other researchers, winnows out those biases. The Disco Institute folks and others of their ilk are cynical manipulators of the naive faithful.

-Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity? Is there a logically sound argument that refutes the “watchmaker” argument?

Ken Miller has done it to Behe. And Paley's watchmaker argument has been refuted since the 1860s, when Thomas Henry Huxley destroyed Bishop Wilberforce's attempt to employ it in an Oxford debate. The intervening years have only served to further discredit it.

-I don’t have a major problem with theistic evolutionists.
-I have a problem with atheists who claim that humans can do anything wrong… or right.

Atheists are as moral as are other folks, but nice try at diverting the discussion from the presence vs. the absence of empirical evidence to Bad Old Atheists vs. Good Old God, as the Disco Institute's Wedge strategy document recommends.

-Where is LGF on the separation of church & state issue?

On the side of the first amendment to the US Constitution, as clarified by Thomas Jefferson:
[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]

-Science seems to be creating its own high priesthood, where issues can only be debated by scientists, not laymen.

When the attempt to elevate creationism or its PR propaganda relabeling ID to the status of empirical science fails, creationists always endeavor to reduce empirical science to the status of religion. But this endeavor also fails, because the essential difference of the presence vs. the absence of empirical evidence remains.

Any help on enlightening me on the LGF culture, the near total lack of patience with people who take opposing views on evolution would be appreciated. This is an honest request, I’m not trying to make a back handed slap at LGF. I'm heading out of town early, so mostly listen for now, but I'll be back... unless I get booted. Thanks!

It is about anti-idiotarianism, and does not give anyone's pet idiocies free passes. It is an equal opportunity sacred ox gorer.

532 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:14:20pm

Going upstream. See you there.

533 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:14:42pm

re: #520 kcladderman
We have a badminton team?

Isn't it an Olympic event?

534 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:16:22pm

re: #499 ArmyWife

Heck, Maryland's says you have to believe in G-d to hold public office!

I'm sure the ACLU will now take notice.

535 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:17:07pm

re: #526 itellu3times

So, which party, and which candidates, rode on these issues?

A quick Google to Wikipedia doesn't seem to show any political involvement. I'm sure there may have been some, especially local, but I did specify "national".

Um.

Admission of Utah to the Union?

536 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:17:19pm

re: #531 Salamantis

I think we have a rotating title nominee here:

It is an equal opportunity sacred ox gorer.

537 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:17:47pm

re: #530 Occasional Reader

More "thanks", and more "phooey".

Sorry about that.

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:18:29pm

re: #526 itellu3times

So, which party, and which candidates, rode on these issues?

A quick Google to Wikipedia doesn't seem to show any political involvement. I'm sure there may have been some, especially local, but I did specify "national".

Well, I'm not totally sure what would meet your criteria--but you might check out the history of the Know-Nothing movement. (A well-named crowd if there ever was one.)

539 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:18:52pm

re: #535 Dianna

Um.

Admission of Utah to the Union?

Yeah I heard about that, but, then what?

540 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:18:59pm

Excuse me, I'm going to curl up with my Male and watch TV.

Or not.

Hopefully, not waste our time watching TV, anywhoo.

541 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:22:40pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I'm not totally sure what would meet your criteria--but you might check out the history of the Know-Nothing movement. (A well-named crowd if there ever was one.)

Yes that comes close, but how much of that was really anti-immigrant, and it's not like Catholics were ever officially barred from office.

The term "Know Nothing" is better remembered than the party itself. In the late 19th century, Democrats would call the Republicans "Know Nothings" in order to secure the votes of Catholics. Since the early 20th century, the term has been a provocative slur, suggesting that the opponent is both nativist and ignorant.

Not really a big issue, I still say.

542 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #232 HelloDare

It's those damn electrons.

And let's just not even get into hole flow...;~)

543 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:25:50pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Why do some appliance have a fat thingy and a skinny thingy on plug (so you can only plug it in one way) and other appliances have two skinny thingys on the plug. Alternating current means it shouldn't matter which way it's plugged in.

It's called a polarized plug, and the reason is safety. One side of the outlet is called "neutral", and is at ground potential electrically (although quite separate from the "safety ground" served by the third hole in the socket. The remaining hole in the socket is the "hot" lead, which (in North America) is 120 volts "hot" relative to neutral.

Two-prong polarized plugs are made that way so that any portion of the appliance that might come in contact with a user's body and is at risk of coming in contact with electrically-charged parts of the appliance too, will be most likely to first come in contact with the wire leading to the neutral terminal of the socket, and not the hot terminal.

So if the insulation fails in the blow dryer you are holding, your hand will become connected to neutral and not to hot.

Sorry, not the most concise explanation.

544 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:27:36pm

re: #541 itellu3times

Not really a big issue, I still say.

OK--I have no major ax to grind over the role of religion in American politics--but you seemed to imply that something had recently changed, and I don't see anything more dramatic than what's already been discussed on the current national front.

We've always been pretty good about dealing with these things as they come up, that I will agree with.

545 sprucepinehollow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:32:33pm

re: #394 Thanos

Thanks for working through my questions. I've picked up several links and will read through them.

546 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:32:36pm

re: #338 albusteve

it's saturday night...take a break

[Video]

I've got some bad news for you, especially if monday is a work day for you...

547 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:34:45pm

re: #404 ArmyWife

I agree, we are not going to be theocratic, but that doesn't mean religion doesn't play a role in our government - it always has, hence the invocation of G-d in the Constitution.

Nope, that would be the invocation of a Creator in the Declaration of Independence.

548 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:37:17pm

re: #542 Salamantis

See if you can complete this joke:

A neutron walks into a bar...

and says I think I've lost an electron. To which the bartender replies "Are you sure"? The neutron replies - "____________"

Too easy I'm sure!

549 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:38:18pm

re: #536 Thanos

I think we have a rotating title nominee here:

So it is written, so shall it be done.

550 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:45:03pm

re: #499 ArmyWife

Actually, I generalized a bit too much, and though the Presidential Oath has historically included "so help me G-d" (insofar as has been documented, that is), it isn't written in the Constitution itself, unless you want to stretch the "in the year of our Lord". The Declaration of Independence refers to a "Creator" and inalienable rights. And (trying to save myself here), almost every single State Constitution references G-D. Heck, Maryland's says you have to believe in G-d to hold public office! Wonder how that would go over right now.

PS - I have no problems with people who don't believe in G-d, I just take issue with Christmas Trees being banished under a separation clause that doesn't exist.

Yeah; us Pagans not only wanna see our Yule Trees in the public square, we wanna see them acknowledged as an originally Pagan tradition, that both Christians and seculars kinda lifted without attribution...;~)

551 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:49:52pm

Sal, you just made the big time with a rotating title.

552 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:54:53pm

re: #551 Thanos

Sal, you just made the big time with a rotating title.

Yeah; I saw that. I'm honored. Thanx for recommending me...umm...it.

553 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 6:59:45pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

Is there a logically sound argument that refutes Behe’s book “Darwin’s Black Box,” specifically the idea of irreducible complexity?

Irreducible Complexity Demystified

554 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:05:58pm

I'm a little stunned that a person can come in here, be completely ignorant on this issue despite claiming to have read this blog, insult not only our host but all of us by saying we attack religion- then turn around, try to kiss our asses by acting jovial, and people fall in line and "play nice". "sprucepinehollow" just spit in your faces in #125 and he gets up dings for asking questions he could find the answers for on his own? Wow, guys.

555 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:10:15pm

re: #273 Thanos

Reading about that discovery of the evolution of birds when it was first released was quite fascinating- thanks for the link.

556 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:11:20pm

I'm a thread killer.

557 jaunte  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:13:37pm

re: #556 Sharmuta

It's that lull in the evening as everyone waits for the Grammys to end,
before heading back to work down the quotemine shaft.

558 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:13:55pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

I'm a little stunned that a person can come in here, be completely ignorant on this issue despite claiming to have read this blog, insult not only our host but all of us by saying we attack religion- then turn around, try to kiss our asses by acting jovial, and people fall in line and "play nice". "sprucepinehollow" just spit in your faces in #125 and he gets up dings for asking questions he could find the answers for on his own? Wow, guys.

At one time I had some patience with folks like that.

But I kept getting burned.

They say the exact same things. Every time. It's like there's an assembly line of people waiting to register to come in here and say the exact same thing as 50 people ahead of 'em.

I have no patience with those folks. If they are truly uninformed, then it's very easy to get informed really quickly, without having to ask the same questions here over and over and over.

559 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:15:09pm

re: #308 Thanos

ok Done eating. I'll see if I can give naughty pine some answers.

This is the standard plaint of all the DI shills that come here, which might tend to make some suspicious of you. Everyone gets dissed here, not just Christians, it's part of the rough and tumble. Nobody here disses all x, y, or z, instead we tend to focus on the political action groups like DI, ICR, and AIG. The fact that there are many more Christians here than atheists somewhat belies your implication that we are just bashing Christians with these threads.

While I don't disagree with your comment, Thanos, the problem is that accepting empirical data doesn't equal group think.

560 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #558 reine.de.tout

I love the Lizards, I really do. Sometimes I worry that some are too easily taken in by less than worthy members because of a joke or "ok, I'll look into that". We should know by now to remain skeptical because the ID shill are dishonest as they come.

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:19:53pm

re: #556 Sharmuta

Threadicidal Maniac!

Went to the store for smokes and beer, what did I miss?

562 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:20:08pm

re: #404 ArmyWife

I agree, we are not going to be theocratic, but that doesn't mean religion doesn't play a role in our government - it always has, hence the invocation of G-d in the Constitution.

God is not mentioned in the Constitution at all.

563 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:21:27pm

re: #561 Slumbering Behemoth

Threadicidal Maniac!

Went to the store for smokes and beer, what did I miss?

I'm playing the part of Salamantis, going over the thread and responding to comments made hours ago that no one is likely to come back and read.

564 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:23:08pm

re: #416 Shug

what about the Presidential Oath of office?

George Washington added "so help me God" on his own, and it's become tradition, but it's not in the Constitution.

565 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:25:47pm

re: #445 Shug

I stand corrected. I actually looked it up and read the history of inserting " So Help me God" at the end.
Customary but not mandatory

Whoa, whoa, whoa- you were capable of searching for an answer yourself and didn't need an LGFer to spoon feed you? This could have serious consequences for the creationists demanding links.

566 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:27:11pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

Sala is on break tonight?

567 Basho  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:27:17pm

re: #548 Jimmah

See if you can complete this joke:

A neutron walks into a bar...

and says I think I've lost an electron. To which the bartender replies "Are you sure"? The neutron replies - "____________"

Too easy I'm sure!

I'm positive! Hahahaha good one =) I feel great being able to figure that out on my own.

568 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:28:59pm

re: #548 Jimmah

What the hell

A neutron walks into a bar...

and says I think I've lost an electron. To which the bartender replies "Are you sure"? The neutron replies - "Yes, she split with a proton"

569 Basho  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:29:02pm

I like Sharm when she's angry

570 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:29:17pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

Don't sweat it, someone will. These kinds threads tend to get activity for days.

Well, I am about to get down to the business of pizza and beer consumption, so until I can read all the comments, pretend I gave you and up-ding for each one.

+ eleventy!

571 Basho  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:29:50pm

re: #568 Naso Tang

Hmm... maybe I'm not so clever after all.

572 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #499 ArmyWife

PS - I have no problems with people who don't believe in G-d, I just take issue with Christmas Trees being banished under a separation clause that doesn't exist.

There are two clauses- the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. While I think some atheists and rabid secularists go too far- these Clauses do exist.

573 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:32:47pm

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Sala is on break tonight?

I'm sure he'll be back.

574 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:36:16pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

He didn't get any from me, that's for sure.

575 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:36:41pm

re: #545 sprucepinehollow

Personally- I think you're full of it, and on behalf of my fellow Lizards, I demand an apology from you for saying we attack religion.

576 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:38:50pm

re: #568 Naso Tang

That's a great answer, but it's not the right answer...lol

577 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:40:20pm

re: #576 Jimmah

Working on it...

578 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:40:59pm

re: #567 Basho

Heh. Spot on Basho!

579 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:49:54pm

re: #578 Jimmah

Heh. Spot on Basho!


[Video]

A natural answer, but as Basho knows, a neutron would never have an electron to lose.

So call me a nerd, I don't care.

580 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 7:57:42pm

re: #579 Naso Tang

Atom! I meant atom! I can't even tell jokes properly on the internet. Gaaah!

581 Basho  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:02:43pm

re: #580 Jimmah

ROFLMAO :D

582 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:04:32pm

re: #581 Basho

Looks like I got that demented diode of a robots first and second jokes mixed up in my mind...lol

583 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:17:20pm

You are forgiven. You may upding me now.

584 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:18:21pm

re: #182 realwest

My feet hurt like hell..since you asked..

585 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:20:10pm

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Sala is on break tonight?

re: #573 Sharmuta

I'm sure he'll be back.

I already replied to sprucepinehollow, incomment #531:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

586 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:30:32pm

The more I read #125 the more pissed off I get. Especially when combined with sprucepinehollow's previous comments. In particular, this one, where we see another "irreducible complexity" mention. I do not believe this person is being forthright and honest in wanting to better understand evolution. #125 alone is laced with so many red flags, a bull would go mad looking at it. "Group think", "religious views often dissed and mocked", "biased scientists", misrepresenting LGF, Behe Behe Behe!, "problem with atheists", and science as a religion.

You don't fool me, sprucepinehollow. I don't appreciate your mischaracterization of this blog, it's participants or this issue. I do hope you come back and read this and know this: I'm not the only one who sees through your garbage.

587 Syrah  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 8:50:31pm

re: #125 sprucepinehollow

How long had you been reading LGF before you registered?

Was it the it the Evolution threads that brought LGF to your attention?

588 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 9:02:31pm

re: #587 Syrah

If you look at sprucepinehollow's comment history, s/he's only commented on this topic. No political threads, no terrorism threads, just evolution.

589 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 9:11:22pm

re: #586 Sharmuta

I'm not the only one who sees through your garbage.

No, you aren't the only one.

590 Syrah  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 9:12:15pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

I noted.

It looked odd, leading to the questions that I asked.

#125 indicates a very limited understanding of LGF and the history of this debate here.

It doesn't square.

591 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 9:29:35pm

re: #590 Syrah

They never acknowledge what has gone before on LGF even though they have obviously been following it closely. To do that would be to acknowledge that their talking points have been crushed repeatedly, and would require them to come up with something different. Since they don't have any new material they just pretend ignorance so that they can roll out the same old crap again. Notice how he mentions that he thinks LGFers are getting tired of it...

592 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:55am

re: #548 Jimmah

See if you can complete this joke:

A neutron walks into a bar...

and says I think I've lost an electron. To which the bartender replies "Are you sure"? The neutron replies - "____________"

Too easy I'm sure!

Positively!

593 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:51:18am

Looking around for stories, and I stumbled upon a creationist letter so stunning I had to share:

I would like to comment of Mr. McKeown's letter to the editor about Churches and Darwinism co-existing and his implied suggestion that Bible-believing Christians cannot have a "deep appreciation" of the world around us because of our faith.

Mr. McKeown does not understand that the Bible and science can, in fact, co-exist, so long as science does not contradict what the Bible says -- and often it doesn't.

*****

According to Darwin, all living things have a common origin, so essentially saying that we evolved from mushrooms at some point would also be a correct statement to make. [WOW! -ed.]

****

Science always has to change its theories based on new data discovered. The Darwin theory has probably disproved itself more times in the last 200 years than proving it. This is why it continues to remain a theory and not fact. A lot of these changes have come to further support creationism ("Intelligent Design" is what scientists call it).

However, there has been one rock that has never moved -- the Bible. It has always remained the same, it has never changed. [WOW! -ed.]

We all have faith, but in what, is the important question. In the God of the Universe or humans who think they were once mushrooms?

Just...... stunning.

594 tophsey  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 6:40:55am

I watched all 3 episodes last night. What struck me the most was how many times they talked about climate change happening millions of years ago, long before man even evolved. Makes you rethink the whole global warming debate, doesn't it?

595 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 7:07:03am

I watched the bear and the whale, but not the turkey. Perhaps Charles or Sharmuta can help here. I was very impressed by what was made from the evidence of the fossil remains of the animals and the narrative created therefrom. However, I was disappointed by questions I had that structure alone cannot answer. For example, one precursor of the bear had teeth capable of eating both flesh and vegetable matter. However, it was said that the animal was originally only carnivorous. I wish the process that occurs in the gut that permits a carnivore to live on plant life could be explained by the fossil evidence.

Also, the whale's transformation is almost unbelievable. However, the fossil evidence could determine the freshwater fore bearers of the whale, but again, not the chemical process to move to saltwater. This would be of great interest, but is alas, so far as I know, unknowable from the fossil record.

596 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 8:25:51am

re: #595 Cato

"This dna evidence identifying the killer is all well and good, but it tells us nothing about his fingerprints"

597 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 8:35:32am

re: #595 Cato

However, the fossil evidence could determine the freshwater fore bearers of the whale, but again, not the chemical process to move to saltwater.

What do you mean?

598 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 8:44:36am

re: #597 Mr Secul

What do you mean?

I think Cato's point is that the bear was engaging in bestiality and anal intercourse, and therefore could not possibly have evolved.

599 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:03:52am

re: #597 Mr Secul

Assuming he realises that whales have watertight skin unlike fishes(hope I'm not being too charitable there), he's probably talking about adapting to drinking sea water. I don't know what those particular adaptations are off hand, but it doesn't take a genius to see that intermediate fresh/salt water environments - which are located intermediate between areas of fresh and salt water- estuaries and so forth - create ample opportunities for gradual adaptation from one extreme to the other.

600 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:16:57am

re: #599 Jimmah

Fresh -> brackish -> salt. And Cato know full well that bones wont record the process.

OTOH if you really want to understand the sorts of adaptions needed then look at current day species: whales, seals, maybe river dolphins and see how they cope with the various environments from fresh to salt.

I was looking to see if I could find anything in Nature and I came across this:

While the genital system shows many primitive features which suggest affinity to some group near the insectivores , there are, nevertheless, reasons for comparing it with the corresponding system of the ungulates, especially of the perissodactyles.

It was written in1933. I though this was an early mention of the whale ungulate connection but talkorigins says:

Later, Flower (1883) recognized that the whales have persistent rudimentary and vestigial features characteristic of terrestrial mammals, thus confirming that the direction of descent was from terrestrial to marine species. On the basis of morphology, Flower also linked whales with the ungulates; he seems to have been the first person to do so.
601 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:18:01am

re: #598 Charles

Evidence that deer and dogs didn't evolve either:

Image: deerdog.jpg

602 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:25:00am

re: #598 Charles

I had a funny reply to that but I didn't want to make too much fun of Cato.

I was tempted though...

603 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:26:48am

re: #600 Mr Secul

Or indeed fishes - it's an even bigger issue for them due to their non watertight skin and they seem to manage.

604 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:28:05am

re: #596 Jimmah

re: #597 Mr Secul

re: #598 Charles

The problem, Jimmah, is that you got it backwards: We have the fingerprint, in a sense, not the DNA. Everything presented in Morphed is plausible. But it takes more than the ability to chew leaves in order to digest them. That part of the evolutionary process is lost to us. So is the process whereby fresh-water animals develop into salt-water ones, because, as they said, we don't have their kidneys. Thus, all explanations of development are based on macro-structure, not chemical processes. So we will never know if the super predator bear that died out died out because it was too big to hang in the forests or whether it had a bad liver gene.

And as for you Charles, you make the case that evolutionary theory is falsifiable. Let's see if you believe that. There is a population of creatures who are involved in activities that produce fewer offspring, make them less able to hunt effectively, and kills them earlier. These activies become more widespread rather than die out But this population flourishes rather than dies out. It means that either (1) natural selection is wrong with respect to this population or (2) some other factor makes them more worthy of survival despite the withering effects of their behavior, in short Darwin's formulation of natural selection lacks an "on balance" modifier. This species is humanity which despite violating numerous behavioral prohibitions flourishes. Why do you find that difficult to understand?

605 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:30:08am

re: #601 Jimmah

Do the Greeks have a name for the progeny? Its not one I'm familiar with.

Waitaminute! How is it you just happened to have a photo like that to hand?

606 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:31:47am

re: #598 Charles

LOL. Another gem from that post:

The very notion of property is anti-Darwin

He should try telling that to an alpha male baboon in his territory while trying to sweet talk one of his concubines.

607 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:38:16am

re: #605 Mr Secul

Waitaminute! How is it you just happened to have a photo like that to hand?

LOL. I can explain. I did a screen capture from this video on youtube:

608 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:40:44am

re: #604 Cato

re: #598 Charles

And as for you Charles, you make the case that evolutionary theory is falsifiable. Let's see if you believe that. There is a population of creatures who are involved in activities that produce fewer offspring, make them less able to hunt effectively, and kills them earlier. These activies become more widespread rather than die out But this population flourishes rather than dies out. It means that either (1) natural selection is wrong with respect to this population or (2) some other factor makes them more worthy of survival despite the withering effects of their behavior, in short Darwin's formulation of natural selection lacks an "on balance" modifier. This species is humanity which despite violating numerous behavioral prohibitions flourishes. Why do you find that difficult to understand?

I do understand your point, and I also understand that it's a non sequitur. You don't understand the concept of scientific falsification. You're stating opinions, not scientific facts, by focusing on behaviors that you believe are "immoral."

The theory of evolution could be falsified simply by discovering the remains of a modern animal -- say, a Great Dane or a finch or a sheep -- in the same substrate as an ancient dinosaur fossil. This hasn't happened in 150 years of looking, and it's not going to happen.

This is what "falsification" means -- it's evidence-based, not opinion-based.

609 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:44:12am

re: #604 Cato

Again- you seem to think that a verbal argument equals scientific empirical data. It's doesn't.

And as for digestive systems evolving- there is proof of that- recent proof at that.

Pod Mrcaru, for example, had an abundance of plants for the primarily insect-eating lizards to munch on. Physically, however, the lizards were not built to digest a vegetarian diet.

Researchers found that the lizards developed cecal valves—muscles between the large and small intestine—that slowed down food digestion in fermenting chambers, which allowed their bodies to process the vegetation's cellulose into volatile fatty acids.

"They evolved an expanded gut to allow them to process these leaves," Irschick said, adding it was something that had not been documented before. "This was a brand-new structure."

610 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:46:36am

re: #599 Jimmah

I don't know what those particular adaptations are off hand, but it doesn't take a genius to see that intermediate fresh/salt water environments - which are located intermediate between areas of fresh and salt water- estuaries and so forth - create ample opportunities for gradual adaptation from one extreme to the other.

I assume the adaptation pressures would be similar to the saltwater crocodile... The SW crocodile lives in fresh rivers and swamps, but in the dry season when these areas disappear they are forced to go out toward the sea.

611 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:49:05am

re: #604 Cato

The problem, Jimmah, is that you got it backwards: We have the fingerprint, in a sense, not the DNA.

Ok lets flip it round then.

"These fingerprints identifying the killer are all well and good, but it tells us nothing about his dna"

Still doesn't make any sense does it? The point thjat seems to be lost on you is that we have more than sufficient evidence from the fossil record to establish the evolution of these creatures as fact. The fact that it is not possible to find out every last detail of the story from fossils is neither here nor there.

612 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:49:50am

I can't believe that with humans overpopulating the Earth, many still suggest that they aren't procreating enough... It boggles my mind.

613 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:51:59am

re: #610 Basho

Yes, looking at animals that live in transitional environments would seem to be the logical thing to do to find out what the fossils can't tell us in this instance.

614 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:54:59am

re: #604 Cato

The problem, Jimmah, is that you got it backwards: We have the fingerprint, in a sense, not the DNA. Everything presented in Morphed is plausible. But it takes more than the ability to chew leaves in order to digest them.

re: #595 Cato

However, I was disappointed by questions I had that structure alone cannot answer. For example, one precursor of the bear had teeth capable of eating both flesh and vegetable matter. However, it was said that the animal was originally only carnivorous. I wish the process that occurs in the gut that permits a carnivore to live on plant life could be explained by the fossil evidence.

You don't wish that at all. That's just your round about way of saying, "Ha ha you evolutionists can't explain that with your fossil bones!".

Or have I got you wrong?

But, when I think about it, modern bears have ferocious looking carnivorous teeth but are also omnivores. If you want to know what adaptions are necessary to eat vegetable matter then there are a large number of modern animals that eat plants and animals.

Do a little comparative anatomy/physiology between 'pure' carnivores and omnivores.

Are you just curious as to how it happened or do you actually think that it is impossible or even particularly difficult?

615 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:57:18am

re: #613 Jimmah

Yes, looking at animals that live in transitional environments would seem to be the logical thing to do to find out what the fossils can't tell us in this instance.

Especially when there are some turtles alive today who spend most of their lives in the oceans, and other turtles who spend most of their lives in rivers. Obviously, switching from one area to the next doesn't seem that difficult.

616 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 9:59:11am

How much does anyone want to bet Cato rejects the evolution of the Italian Wall Lizards' digestive system evolving because they're alive and not fossils?

617 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:00:17am

re: #612 Basho

Yes, his argument is completely stupid. Human population is expanding exponentially; with all the procreative sex humans are having, it makes no difference how much non-procreative sex they are also having.

618 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:15:48am

re: #607 Jimmah

I was dreading clicking on that link. I mean, "I screen grabbed that pervy picture from this pervy video", is hardly a defense is it. :-)

But I watched the video and you are exonerated.

619 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:42:52am

re: #616 Sharmuta

re: #608 Charles

re: #617 Jimmah

Sharmuta, if I knew anything about Italian Wall Lizards, I could answer that, although Charles might object as I will later point out. Do I have any objection to them evolving? No. Let me be as clear as possible on this -- I believe man evolved from some ape-like creature. The DNA evidence is beyond dispute. I do not believe G-d or anybody else made immutable species. In fact, I don't even know if there is a G-d, but if there is one the one thing I know for sure is that he probably thinks most of what is said about him in organized religion is foolish.

Having said that, I am shocked and dismayed that there isn't more critical analysis of the theory of evolution from actual scientists rather than religionists. A great scientist, when he comes up with an idea,
often hopes he is wrong because he will then be able to be certain about something. Confirmation of a theory is all well and good, but as I said before, confirmation is a weak argument. The proposition "All swans are white" was confirmed throughout Europe innumerable times for centuries until, low and behold, black swans were discovered.

Now Charles, I know very well what falsifiability is. It means a theory is capable of being determined false. It doesn't matter by what means. Now you seem to be saying that only fossil evidence can refute fossil evidence in evolution. I am perplexed by that position in light of the fact that Darwin and Wallace used naturalist observation primarily as evidence to arrive at the theory. The theory of evolution encompasses the PROCESS of one species becoming another. Elements of that are (a) the physical structure of the change, (b) the environmental forces at work, and (c) the behavioral changes made. Each affects the other and accordingly, each constitutes evidence for the theory. Darwin set forth a principal in Origin of Species that said that attributes that reduce the ability to procreate or eat will be culled in any species by virtue of natural law. But this isn't the case with humans. I am not making a moral argument. I am making an argument that is irrefutable about which evolutionary theory engages.

Darwin, perhaps, could have said, "on balance, if damaging behaviors or structures do not outweigh other positive attributes about the creature, the species will survive." But he did not say that. QED.

620 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:06pm

re: #619 Cato

Having said that, I am shocked and dismayed that there isn't more critical analysis of the theory of evolution from actual scientists rather than religionists. A great scientist, when he comes up with an idea,
often hopes he is wrong because he will then be able to be certain about something. Confirmation of a theory is all well and good, but as I said before, confirmation is a weak argument. The proposition "All swans are white" was confirmed throughout Europe innumerable times for centuries until, low and behold, black swans were discovered.

You really think that scientists haven't critically analyzed evolution? Evolution has been scrutinized for 150 years! And every time, it's come out more validated, not because scientists are trying to prove it accurate, but because that's where the evidence has led. That's what good science does- it allows the empirical evidence dictate.

It is predictable- paleontologists can predict where they will find fossils, such as in the case of Tiktaalik. They predicted in what sort of rock from what geological age they would find the type of fossil they were looking for.

It is repeatable- Lenski's E coli was a test on the evolution of that bacteria that was repeated.

It is falsifiable. Human Chromosome 2, had it not been found to be a fused chromosome to match the number of our ape relatives would have falsified evolution. As it stands, the chromosome is fused. Evolution stands.

Your false premise that scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to validate evolution when the evidence has led the theory to be validated without bias is just absurd.

621 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:31:03pm

re: #619 Cato

re: #608 Charles

re: #617 Jimmah

Sharmuta, if I knew anything about Italian Wall Lizards, I could answer that, although Charles might object as I will later point out. Do I have any objection to them evolving? No. Let me be as clear as possible on this -- I believe man evolved from some ape-like creature. The DNA evidence is beyond dispute. I do not believe G-d or anybody else made immutable species. In fact, I don't even know if there is a G-d, but if there is one the one thing I know for sure is that he probably thinks most of what is said about him in organized religion is foolish.

Having said that, I am shocked and dismayed that there isn't more critical analysis of the theory of evolution from actual scientists rather than religionists. A great scientist, when he comes up with an idea,
often hopes he is wrong because he will then be able to be certain about something. Confirmation of a theory is all well and good, but as I said before, confirmation is a weak argument. The proposition "All swans are white" was confirmed throughout Europe innumerable times for centuries until, low and behold, black swans were discovered.

For 150 years, empirical scientists have researched and experimented and investigated every evolutionary theory of which they could conceive. And although there has been much refinement and augmentation and elaboration of evolutionary theory, its basic tenets - random genetic evolution and nonrandom environmental selection - have remained contradicted by none of the empirical evidence produced and supported by all of it. This, even though for a scientist to empirically falsify either of these core component mechanisms would mean a Nobel Prize, a tenured position at an Ivy League university, fat research grants in perpetuity, and a prominent mention in the annals of the history of bioscience. But that brass ring remains ungrasped, and not from lack of trying.

The repeated confirmation over millions of experimental trials is actually statistically very strong. Black swans are what they are precisely because they are statistically extremely unlikely, which is why they are so unpredictable. Plus, if the statement had said that there were no such thing as black swans indigenous to Europe, the statement would have remained true, as they were discovered in Australia. One should be careful about rhetorically exceeding empirically verified parameters.

to be continued...

622 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:53:12pm

re: #619 Cato

Having said that, I am shocked and dismayed that there isn't more critical analysis of the theory of evolution from actual scientists rather than religionists. A great scientist, when he comes up with an idea,
often hopes he is wrong because he will then be able to be certain about something. Confirmation of a theory is all well and good, but as I said before, confirmation is a weak argument. The proposition "All swans are white" was confirmed throughout Europe innumerable times for centuries until, low and behold, black swans were discovered.

Another pathetic attempt to portray scientists as closed minded fools from someone who appears to know next to nothing about the subject, and a sneaky commendation of creationists for their spunky spirit of inquiry (even though the fraudulence and ignorance of their claims has been busted here so many times it is not even funny anymore) thrown in as well. You ain't fooling no-one.

Now you seem to be saying that only fossil evidence can refute fossil evidence in evolution.

No - you challenged him to show that evolution was falsifiable. He gave you a perfectly valid example that demonstrates in the simplest way imaginable that it is.

Darwin, perhaps, could have said, "on balance, if damaging behaviors or structures do not outweigh other positive attributes about the creature, the species will survive." But he did not say that. QED.

You haven't actually demonstrated that behaviours like anal sex and bestiality serve no purpose. In the absence of suitable mates of the correct gender or species, such behaviours may function as practice or simply a release of frustration. Or, in the case of homosexuality, it could be something that happens among members of social groups that simply cements or deepens the social bond. And since, although you conveniently ignore it, such activities are rife in the animal kingdom anyway, there is no great distinction between humans and animals in this respect at all.

623 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:55:11pm

High fives, all around.

624 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #619 Cato

re: #608 Charles

re: #617 Jimmah

Now Charles, I know very well what falsifiability is. It means a theory is capable of being determined false. It doesn't matter by what means. Now you seem to be saying that only fossil evidence can refute fossil evidence in evolution. I am perplexed by that position in light of the fact that Darwin and Wallace used naturalist observation primarily as evidence to arrive at the theory. The theory of evolution encompasses the PROCESS of one species becoming another. Elements of that are (a) the physical structure of the change, (b) the environmental forces at work, and (c) the behavioral changes made. Each affects the other and accordingly, each constitutes evidence for the theory. Darwin set forth a principal in Origin of Species that said that attributes that reduce the ability to procreate or eat will be culled in any species by virtue of natural law. But this isn't the case with humans. I am not making a moral argument. I am making an argument that is irrefutable about which evolutionary theory engages.

Darwin, perhaps, could have said, "on balance, if damaging behaviors or structures do not outweigh other positive attributes about the creature, the species will survive." But he did not say that. QED.

Evolutionary theory could also be falsified genetically, by finding two members of the same species possessing widely divergent genomes, two members of widely divergent species possessing nearly identical genomes, or living organisms possessing no genetic templates whatsoever. But finding such things has proven to be as elusive as finding fossil rabbits in precambrian strata. So evolution is falsifiable in theory, by several different conceivable empirical means, but, after a century and a half of checking and re-checking, it remains unfalsified, and instead massively verified, in practice. The fact that it has been so multiply verified and utterly unfalsified for so long, and that there is as much empirical evidence FOR it as for any theory in empirical science, and utterly none AGAINST it, strongly indicates that evolutionary theory, as much as gravitation or heliocentrism or relativity or quantum mechanics, is here to stay.

As I have said before, the advent of human self-conscious awareness allows individuals to reflectively make individual decisions, rather than being ruled by a combination of genetic instinctual predisposition, present stimuli, and behaviorally ingrained history. Our ability to communicate what we have learned, to pass it on knowledge and thus to accumulate it, has permitted a memetic social evolution that has proceeded on a much more rapid time frame than does genetic evolution, and seen us go from knapping hand-axes to computers, nuclear fusion and moon landings in a hundred thousand years. It has also allowed us to civilizationally insulate ourselve from many dangers (starvation, predation, exposure, disease) that would obtain were we required to survive in the wild. And yet, due to the historically unprecedented number of human beings presently in the gene pool, and the plethora of different environments (both ecological and cultural) in which they live, Human genetic evolution is proceeding at a faster pace now than at any time in known history.

Arguing against contemporary evolutionary theory (Darwin + Mendel + Watson & Crick + Fisher + Hamilton + Trivers + Gould + Maynard Smith + Mayr + McClintock + Lewontin + Dawkins +...) by claiming Darwin was wrong or incomplete about some details is like arguing against freeing slaves because Lincoln harbored some racist sentiments.

625 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:11:05pm

re: #620 Sharmuta

re: #621 Salamantis

Your false premise that scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to validate evolution when the evidence has led the theory to be validated without bias is just absurd.

Now did I ever say there was a conspiracy? Come on there is no conspiracy and no honest reader can say I said there was. What there is is an inversion of processes. Where most scientists say, "well if the universe is expanding in such and such a way, then x". Evidence is obtained and then we see whether it fits with what we know. In physics this approach has led to the speculations on dark matter and dark energy only very recently.

In evolutionary theory, when facts are surprising, no one EVER asks whether the facts disprove evolutionary theory. In Morphed when talking about whales, you may remember that they predicted the eariest form would live near salt water. But upon examination of teeth, they discovered it was fresh water. They didn't say "evolution must be wrong because it caused us to predict wrongly." They asked "where did we go wrong" and not "where did the theory go wrong." In short, natural selection is assumed and the facts made to fit a narrative. Now I'm not sayig that most of these naratives are wrong -- most seem plausible. But for a scientist who is employed by an institution that would be ridiculed for even the slightest heresy, as I am here, it is not easy to look with fresh eyes. One can talk of gradualism v. punctuated advance in evolution, but there is no framework to talk outside of evolution itself, and therein lies the issue.

626 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:20:34pm

re: #622 Jimmah

Jimmah,

One thing I learned in law school was when your opponent grants you something, don't go back to it. You are going to have a really hard time calling me some sort of creationist when I have already granted man ascending from the apes. That is pretty much what creationists object to.

627 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:45:09pm

re: #625 Cato

They didn't say "evolution must be wrong because it caused us to predict wrongly."

That would have been an immensely stupid thing for them to have said. If I make a speculation about the evolution of finch's beaks which turns out to be wrong - and which is supplanted by another speculation that better fits the facts, would that be valid grounds for doubting evolution? Scientists are smart enough to be able to tell the difference between new evidence that causes a refinement to some detailed aspect of a theory and evidence that brings the entire theory as a whole into question, even if you are not.

One can talk of gradualism v. punctuated advance in evolution, but there is no framework to talk outside of evolution itself, and therein lies the issue.

All you are trying to do is validate the idea that there is a genuine scientific controversy over whether evolution is true or not, without giving anything close to a valid reason. There is no such controversy. Evolution is an established fact.

628 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:48:15pm

re: #626 Cato

One thing I learned here is that when people show up who claim to believe in evolution and then start sneaking in various creationist canards, its because they are creationists. Either that or just very confused. Take your pick.

629 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:49:54pm

re: #625 Cato

re: #621 Salamantis

Richard Lenski did not do that. He has performed his e coli evolutionary experiments with rigid controls designed to eliminate any such presuppositions. He began with twelve lots of e coli and has allowed each of them to cycle through tens of thousands of generations (more than 40 thousand, at last count). In one of these lots but ot the others, around generation #31,500, a spontaneous mutation occurred that allowed those e coli to metabolize citric acid (the inability to do so has long been an identifying marker of e coli). Since he froze members of each of the lots every few generations, he can unfreeze members of the mutating lot that were stored before the mutation occurred, and replay the mutation at will.

[Link: myxo.css.msu.edu...]

Likewise, the genome sequencing that led to the discovery of shared artifactual retroviral DNA sequences in humans and great apes was not undertaken with such a discovery anticipated in advance. However, their discovery has conclusively demonstrated, via massive empirical evidence, common ancestors of macroevolutionarily distinct species beyond rational statistical doubt. In fact, extinct retroviruses have actually been reverse engineered and brought back to life on the basis of such shared sequences.

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

630 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:52:26pm

Gradualism and punctuated equilibrium are not mutually exclusive, but rather are poles on a continuum. It is not an either/or dilemma; both can occur without contradiction.

631 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:55:26pm

re: #627 Jimmah

All you are trying to do is validate the idea that there is a genuine scientific controversy over whether evolution is true or not, without giving anything close to a valid reason. There is no such controversy. Evolution is an established theory.

Evolution is not now, nor can it ever be a fact. It is an explanation of a process. Thus it is a theory. The explanation can be correct or false, but it is not a fact. That a particular animal has evolved from one form to another is a fact.

And if you think that I am saying that there is a genuine scientific controversy you completely misunderstand me. There is NO scientific controversy, although maybe there should be.

632 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:17:50pm

re: #631 Cato

All you are trying to do is validate the idea that there is a genuine scientific controversy over whether evolution is true or not, without giving anything close to a valid reason. There is no such controversy. Evolution is an established theory.

Evolution is not now, nor can it ever be a fact. It is an explanation of a process. Thus it is a theory. The explanation can be correct or false, but it is not a fact. That a particular animal has evolved from one form to another is a fact.

And if you think that I am saying that there is a genuine scientific controversy you completely misunderstand me. There is NO scientific controversy, although maybe there should be.

Evolution is an empirical fact. There is no doubt whatsoever that the species that populate this planet change over time. Some species end, others begin. There were no rabbits in the precambrian; there are no trilobites now. The theory part has to do with the mechanism by means of which this change proceeds. And the core tenets of evolutionary theory, random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection, have been evidentially supported countless times, and no credible counterfactual empirical evidence whatsoever has been found after 150 years of searching.

Here are some articles on evolution as a fact AND a theory:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: www.talkorigins.org...]

[Link: www.springerlink.com...]

[Link: www.stephenjaygould.org...]

[Link: www.2think.org...]

[Link: www.actionbioscience.org...]

[Link: records.viu.ca...]

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

633 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #631 Cato

Evolution is not now, nor can it ever be a fact. It is an explanation of a process. Thus it is a theory.

We know that populations change genetically and hence morphologically over time in response to selective pressure. Speciation has even been observed. A theory that has been proven correct through observation, as evolution has, is also a fact.

And if you think that I am saying that there is a genuine scientific controversy you completely misunderstand me. There is NO scientific controversy, although maybe there should be.

How is that for creationist doubletalk?

You have given no valid reasons whatsoever why - not just some detail of how a particular organism developed - but the theory of evolution as a whole - should be a matter of scientific controversy. I note also that you haven't responded at all to the first paragraph of my last post.

634 Cato  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:19:43pm

re: #629 Salamantis


All quite interesting and somewhat disquieting. (Who wants to have citric acid eating e coli in the environment? Not I nor my orange growing friends. BTW, how did e coli live in a citric acid base for 31,000 generations without dying off beforehand?) And as for us being sons and daughters of the apes, well I think it preferable to being related to some humans. But that isn't the point.

I have said that evolution works just fine for "cods and pine" (in Stove's words)and makes an excellent story for man's ascent. But that ascent meant something. It meant that the rules are not the same for us. We do all sorts of things that would kill off lesser beings yet we thrive. We believe false myths and survive. We invent ways to kill our competitors more efficiently, and we survive. We engage in killing our unborn young and fail to reproduce up to our ability and we flourish. We aid our wounded and infirm, to the point of each individual's own sacrifice, and we endure. We go to battle believing in a cause that has no material substance, yet we advance. If alien anthropologists discovered our remains they might attribute this to our omnivorous teeth or ability to both climb trees and run on flat ground. But that is not why we advance. Human life is nothing like the life laid out by the rules of the game described by Darwin and his progeny. It is a very good theory. But at some point, it becomes inapplicable, in whole or in part. And evolutionary theorists refuse to see when those rules do not apply.

635 Mr Secul  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:21:20pm

re: #619 Cato

Let me be as clear as possible on this -- I believe man evolved from some ape-like creature. The DNA evidence is beyond dispute. I do not believe G-d or anybody else made immutable species. In fact, I don't even know if there is a G-d, but if there is one the one thing I know for sure is that he probably thinks most of what is said about him in organized religion is foolish.

Having said that, I am shocked and dismayed that there isn't more critical analysis of the theory of evolution from actual scientists rather than religionists. A great scientist, when he comes up with an idea,
often hopes he is wrong because he will then be able to be certain about something. Confirmation of a theory is all well and good, but as I said before, confirmation is a weak argument.

What do you expect to see? Public hand wringing?

We've seen punctuated evolution, debates whether evolution acts on individuals or species, speculation on development and its influence on possible evolutionary trajectories, the rejection of simple vertical descent in the prokaryotes, lateral gene transfer.

There are questions being asked but why do you want to see scientists doubting everything about evolution?

Is it just that you are not convinced therefore you are disappointed that other people are?

The theory seems to work, its has explanatory power and links very disparate subjects together. Its passed all tests presented to it. Can't scientists just get on and use it until they can think of a really good argument against it?

Should all work on biology and all education of evolution be halted until we have disproved the theory?

What actually do you want? Public hand wringing from biologists, an apology from them, or stickers on biology textbooks? What?

636 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:58:31pm

re: #634 Cato

But that ascent meant something. It meant that the rules are not the same for us. We do all sorts of things that would kill off lesser beings yet we thrive. We believe false myths and survive.

False myths bind communities, making them more robust and hence more likely to survive.

We invent ways to kill our competitors more efficiently, and we survive.

Killing your competitors - do I really have to explain how killing your competitors can give you an advantage in the struggle for survival?

We engage in killing our unborn young and fail to reproduce up to our ability and we flourish.

Surely you realise that the rate of abortion is vastly surpassed by the rate of healthy births?

We aid our wounded and infirm, to the point of each individual's own sacrifice, and we endure.

Aiding our wounded and infirm - again do I have to explain how that might make a group of social beings more, not less effective in the struggle to survive? Individual sacrifice makes evolutionary sense too - see kin selection and group selection.

We go to battle believing in a cause that has no material substance, yet we advance.

While the reasons for going into battle may well be immaterial, the spoils of victory generally aren't. We evolved brains that are capable of language and reason. As a result, humans are motivated by ideas as well as gene-driven instincts, and sometimes those ideas are bad ideas. In that respect, humans are different from animals - (although research is showing that that is a matter of degree too) but that is hardly a problem for evolutionary theory.

637 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:02:31pm

re: #634 Cato

All quite interesting and somewhat disquieting. (Who wants to have citric acid eating e coli in the environment? Not I nor my orange growing friends. BTW, how did e coli live in a citric acid base for 31,000 generations without dying off beforehand?) And as for us being sons and daughters of the apes, well I think it preferable to being related to some humans. But that isn't the point.

I have said that evolution works just fine for "cods and pine" (in Stove's words)and makes an excellent story for man's ascent. But that ascent meant something. It meant that the rules are not the same for us. We do all sorts of things that would kill off lesser beings yet we thrive. We believe false myths and survive. We invent ways to kill our competitors more efficiently, and we survive. We engage in killing our unborn young and fail to reproduce up to our ability and we flourish. We aid our wounded and infirm, to the point of each individual's own sacrifice, and we endure. We go to battle believing in a cause that has no material substance, yet we advance. If alien anthropologists discovered our remains they might attribute this to our omnivorous teeth or ability to both climb trees and run on flat ground. But that is not why we advance. Human life is nothing like the life laid out by the rules of the game described by Darwin and his progeny. It is a very good theory. But at some point, it becomes inapplicable, in whole or in part. And evolutionary theorists refuse to see when those rules do not apply.

I already addressed this issue in my post # 624. The advent of self-conscious awareness allows humans to act not as members of a species ruled by that species genetically determined instincts, but as freely choosing individuals, which means that they can freely choose to act in ways counter to the interests of their genomes. And yet the memetic information explosion that followed from our becoming self-consciously aware and therefore meaning-bestowing and communicating beings has permitted us to construct societies and cultures that to a significant degree infrastructurally insulate us from the wilderness laws of fang and claw. Nevertheless, although we find ourselves less constrained by ecological exigencies that would more forcefully apply were we to be confronted by our environments in less culturally mediated fashions, we find ourselves replacing ecological constraints with cultural norms (mores and folkways) that themselves are evolving, and being memetic, at a much more rapid rate than do populations of genomes within ecological niches. All while our genetic configurational evolution, although overshadowed in speed by our memetic behavioral evolution, has itself quickened.

638 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:42:17pm

re: #636 Jimmah

All your points are sound and flawless, yet it is hopeless... This person is trapped in an unbreakable narrative in which one cannot admit they are wrong and/or one's opinions are unable to alter or change.

639 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:55:37pm

By the way, I heard the ol' abortion violates natural selection argument before. My thoughts:

How exactly does family planning make a species worse off? There are a number of species who only give birth during the spring to avoid having to take care of a baby during a harsh winter. Some animals are only fertile a few days a year. Being able to have offspring during a time of ones life in which they are most capable is the smartest thing a creature can do.

640 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:59:25pm

re: #638 Basho

You are probably right. My points will probably have as much effect as a video of lesbian chimps making out. But we live in hope.

What the heck. Might as well give the chimps a go as well:

641 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:02:50pm

re: #639 Basho

Very good point. Also, many animals who give birth and then find themselves in severe hardship will actually kill and eat their own young.

642 Basho  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:14:20pm

re: #641 Jimmah

For people who take offense at the idea that they share a common ancestor with apes, many religious nuts seem awfully eager to have mankind breed like rodents.

643 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:27:28pm

re: #642 Basho

Yes - the religious refrain 'go forth and multiply' - is exactly what our genes would say if they could speak.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Strokes - Eternal Summer (Audio) The Strokes ‘The New Abnormal’ Available Now: smarturl.it Click to listen to The Strokes on Spotify: smarturl.it More from The StrokesBad Decsions: smarturl.itAt The Door: smarturl.it Last Nite: YouTube Reptilia: YouTubeYou Only Live Once: YouTubeSomeday: YouTube Follow The StrokesWebsite: ...
Thanos
24 minutes ago
Views: 33 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Andrew Bird - Capital Crimes Listen to Capital Crimes: found.ee Directed by Matthew Daniel Siskin “I wrote “Capital Crimes” more than a year ago about capital punishment. For a while they were giving IQ tests to death row inmates. If you scored below 70 ...
Thanos
13 hours, 45 minutes ago
Views: 133 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Hayley Williams - My Friend [Official Lyric Video] My Friend by Hayley Williams Download/stream "My Friend": hayleywilliams.lnk.to Petals For Armor I OUT NOW! Stream/Download: hayleywilliams.lnk.to Pre-order Petals For Armor out May 8th: hayleywilliams.lnk.to Written by Hayley Williams and Joey HowardProduced by Taylor York Additional Production by Joey ...
Thanos
13 hours, 53 minutes ago
Views: 130 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Twenty One Pilots - Level of Concern (Official Video) twenty one pilots - Level of Concern (Official Video)official video for "Level of Concern" - available now on Fueled By Ramen. top.lnk.to Exclusive Crew Nation hoodie available now - smarturl.itA portion of proceeds from this song + the TØP ...
Thanos
13 hours, 58 minutes ago
Views: 168 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 • Share to Facebook
Four Cornered Room — War Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Four Cornered Room · War The Very Best Of War ℗ 2003 Far Out Productions, Inc Released on: 2003-01-01 Studio Personnel, Engineer: Chris HustonProducer: Jerry GoldsteinComposer Lyricist: Papa Dee AllenComposer Lyricist: Charles ...
Thanos
1 day, 14 hours ago
Views: 360 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
GoGo Penguin - Kora (Live) "Kora" from the album “GoGo Penguin” (out on June 5th 2020)Preorder / Presave the album : gogopenguin.lnk.to Follow GoGo Penguin:Facebook : facebook.comTwitter : @GoGo_Penguin/Instagram : instagram.comYoutube : youtube.comOfficial Website : gogopenguin.co.uk Credits:Composed by GoGo Penguin (Chris Illingworth, Nick Blacka, ...
Thanos
1 day, 17 hours ago
Views: 366 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
GoGo Penguin - Atomised “Atomised” from the album “GoGo Penguin” (out on May 1st 2020)Preorder / Presave the album : gogopenguin.lnk.to Facebook : facebook.comTwitter : @GoGo_Penguin/Instagram : instagram.comYoutube : youtube.comOfficial Website : gogopenguin.co.uk Composed by GoGo Penguin (Chris Illingworth, Nick Blacka, Rob Turner) ...
Thanos
1 day, 17 hours ago
Views: 371 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
A Little Soon to Say — Jackson BrowneProvided to YouTube by Inside Recordings A Little Soon To Say · Jackson Browne A Little Soon To Say ℗ 2020 Inside Recordings Composer: Jackson Browne Auto-generated by YouTube.
Thanos
3 days, 14 hours ago
Views: 626 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Billie Joe Armstrong of Green Day - Manic Monday (Ft. Susanna Hoffs of the Bangles) Just another No Fun Mondays covering Manic Monday by The Bangles with the help of Susanna Hoffs. ------Text us:[no phone numbers allowed]Website greenday.comTour Dates greenday.comSign Up To Email List greenday.com Facebook facebook.comInstagram instagram.com Twitter @greenday #BillieJoeArmstrong #StayHome #NoFunMondays ...
Thanos
3 days, 15 hours ago
Views: 578 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 200405We keep reminding everyone we’re amateurs. Who’ve had a fair bit of luck. And we're guessing at a lot of this.We had hoped to be showing pictures of some great rock work today. But it was not to be. We ...
I Don’t Take Responsibility At All (dangerman)
3 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 540 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook