World Media Falls for Another Hoax

Media • Views: 2,718

Layers upon layers of sophisticated fact-checking, foiled again: Irish student hoaxes world’s media with fake quote.

PDT DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) — When Dublin university student Shane Fitzgerald posted a poetic but phony quote on Wikipedia, he said he was testing how our globalized, increasingly Internet-dependent media was upholding accuracy and accountability in an age of instant news.

His report card: Wikipedia passed. Journalism flunked.

The sociology major’s made-up quote — which he added to the Wikipedia page of Maurice Jarre hours after the French composer’s death March 28 — flew straight on to dozens of U.S. blogs and newspaper Web sites in Britain, Australia and India.

They used the fabricated material, Fitzgerald said, even though administrators at the free online encyclopedia quickly caught the quote’s lack of attribution and removed it, but not quickly enough to keep some journalists from cutting and pasting it first.

A full month went by and nobody noticed the editorial fraud. So Fitzgerald told several media outlets in an e-mail and the corrections began.

“I was really shocked at the results from the experiment,” Fitzgerald, 22, said Monday in an interview a week after one newspaper at fault, The Guardian of Britain, became the first to admit its obituarist lifted material straight from Wikipedia.

“I am 100 percent convinced that if I hadn’t come forward, that quote would have gone down in history as something Maurice Jarre said, instead of something I made up,” he said. “It would have become another example where, once anything is printed enough times in the media without challenge, it becomes fact.”

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262 comments
1 rightside  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:28:42am

What, me check?

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:28:56am

I won't let my kids use wikipedia as a source in their papers, and the media uses it?

3 vxbush  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:28:58am

Hopefully Zombie will show up and explain the various quotes s/he have planted that are absolute fakes that have gotten into the media.

4 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:29:12am

Read the headline, and thought it was about Obama.

5 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:29:14am

They are lazy. Don't make them actually,...er...report.

6 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:29:37am

"You fucked up. You trusted us."

7 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:29:53am

Why research a topic when you can just regurgitate something you read on the web? It takes so much time...

Hey, MSM? Think now you understand why people don't want to pay attention to you anymore? No? Carry on...

8 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:30:20am

re: #3 vxbush

Hopefully Zombie will show up and explain the various quotes s/he have planted that are absolute fakes that have gotten into the media.

"Obama is the sexiest man alive!"
/

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Obama is the sexiest man alive!"
/


That's from the self-esteem ticker tape that runs at the bottom edge of the teleprompter.

10 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:32:15am

re: #9 EmmmieG

That's from the self-esteem ticker tape that runs at the bottom edge of the teleprompter.

Yeah, I bet you he's one of those "self-affirmation" kinda guys.

11 vxbush  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:32:28am

re: #9 EmmmieG

That's from the self-esteem ticker tape that runs at the bottom edge of the teleprompter.

Please. Don't make me hurl.

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:32:59am

I know a fat bastard who linked this little story earlier.

13 JohnnyReb  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:33:25am

Who will fact check the fact checkers?

14 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:33:51am

re: #10 Guanxi88

Yeah, I bet you he's one of those "self-affirmation" kinda guys.

It all makes sense... Al Franken based Stuart Smalley on Obama... we're through the looking glass here!

/or is it...

15 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:33:56am

Wiki is ok only for general background and pointers to sources. Stating that anything written there is fact without further research is patently foolish. Also note that in the wiki wars on political groups you will often see one view only, you better go to the sources and then find the sources omitted before you go with anything they say. It's like some of the bloggers we know - you can't trust them without further checking.

16 Gearhead  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:33:59am
A full month went by and nobody noticed the editorial fraud.

Among Democrat politicians, this is regarded as a feature, not a flaw.

17 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:34:32am

re: #12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know a fat bastard who linked this little story earlier.

I'm pretty sure the Great zombie posted this within a thread yesterday or the day before.

18 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:34:42am

re: #10 Guanxi88

Yeah, I bet you he's one of those "self-affirmation" kinda guys.

A fan of Stuart Smalley?

19 dhg4  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:34:50am

On a related but slightly different topic, why do UN and Palestinian human rights organizations get such uncritical attention?

While the PCHR misrepresents the facts about Palestinian casualties it makes other statements which reveal the highly politicized nature of the group that show it is not a human rights organization. For example, it consistently uses the phrase "IOF" ("Israel Occupation Forces") instead of Israel Defense Forces, the proper name of Israel's military, in trying to make Israel look as bad as possible.

The PCHR's influence cannot be overstated. UN groups routinely quote PCHR figures and reports. News media around the world rely on organizations like the PCHR to give them accurate information about what happens in Gaza. The PCHR presents itself as an unbiased party and is taken as such in media reports. The truth, however, is quite different.

20 rightside  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:34:53am

"Hang on a sec, I just have to source this quote before I...Hey, look! the president is on tv without his shirt on!"

21 vxbush  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:35:12am

re: #15 Thanos

Wiki is ok only for general background and pointers to sources. Stating that anything written there is fact without further research is patently foolish. Also note that in the wiki wars on political groups you will often see one view only, you better go to the sources and then find the sources omitted before you go with anything they say. It's like some of the bloggers we know - you can't trust them without further checking.

This isn't the first story about Wikipedia being used to hoax newspapers into publishing fake information. There was another story about it late last year, but I don't recall which person it was about that generated the incorrect information. It was a circular situation: wikipedia put up the fake quote, newspaper quotes wikipedia, then wikipedia cites the newspaper for the quote.

22 Gearhead  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:35:36am

re: #2 EmmmieG

I won't let my kids use wikipedia as a source in their papers, and the media uses it?

Standards are soooo old fashioned...

/

23 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:36:08am

Yet another piece of evidence showing how the media are lazy in their job. Wonder if this has any correclation to the demise of most newspapers and the loss of viewership for TV news? Nah, of course not.

24 lawhawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:36:20am

re: #15 Thanos

There was a court case in NJ where the court ruled that Wiki is not a valid source for evidenciary purposes because anyone can edit it, including parties to the cause of action before the court.

You're right that wiki can serve as a launching point for further information, but it isn't the end-all for many areas, especially politics and history.

25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:36:27am

I trust Wiki in the broadest sense of the word. It is a great site. But is certainly not 100% accurate.

I learned this for myself a few months ago, when out of curiosity I looked up the movie "Cloverfield". You know, the "Blair Witch Project" meets "Godzilla".

I was simply shocked to find out that Michael J. Fox directed it. Yep. Marty McFly. Alex P. Keaton.

Went one (1) site farther found out that was bullshit.

But, Wiki is pretty cool overall.

26 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:36:46am

re: #21 vxbush

This isn't the first story about Wikipedia being used to hoax newspapers into publishing fake information. There was another story about it late last year, but I don't recall which person it was about that generated the incorrect information. It was a circular situation: wikipedia put up the fake quote, newspaper quotes wikipedia, then wikipedia cites the newspaper for the quote.

Yes and there are the page reversion wars as well, Charles did some previous articles on them the past couple years. They are ok to cite as a "for further reading" source, but be careful.

27 whiterasta  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:36:56am

Don't believe anything you read or hear. And only half what you see.

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #17 unrealizedviewpoint

Well, nyah!

29 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:37:14am

re: #18 MandyManners

A fan of Stuart Smalley?

Obama is smart enough, good enough, and by golly, people like him.
/

30 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:37:25am

re: #18 MandyManners

A fan of Stuart Smalley?

I remember, talking with one of my shrinks (serially, you understand, not all at once) and he had the gall to sit there and say, with a straight face, that I should encourage myself with affirming messages. I thought he was joking at first (our first session), but when it slowly dawned on me that he was serious, I confess I laughed in his face. How freakin' preposterous!

The problem isn't that people aren't aware of their potential, it's that their actuality usually fails to get the job done.

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:37:31am

Kudos to the Guardian (can't believe I said that) for making a PUBLIC admission.

Spine.

/or is it (*gasp*) a sense of honor ?

32 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:37:46am

Doing this would get you an "F" in Journalism 101. In high school.

33 Gearhead  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:38:17am

re: #31 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Kudos to the Guardian (can't believe I said that) for making a PUBLIC admission.

Spine.

/or is it (*gasp*) a sense of honor ?

Liability management.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:38:19am

re: #24 lawhawk

Really? Some lawyer approached a Judge with "Wiki'? Hahahaha!

35 acwgusa  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:38:20am

I wouldn't trust Wikipedia to tell me to how to pour urine out of a boot.

36 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:38:36am

Is it me, or did the Guardian change from a respectable publication to a worn out rag in the past few years?

37 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:38:55am

re: #32 MandyManners

Doing this would get you an "F" in Journalism 101. In high school.

Maybe or a job at the NYT?

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #32 MandyManners

Doing this would get you an "F" in Journalism 101. In high school.

In all fairness, I was able to get an "F" in Journalism 101 in high school without Wikipedia.

39 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:39:33am

Wait till O speaks to the Arabs in Egypt. The MSM will be falling all over themselves to praise him.

40 whiterasta  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:39:43am

re: #36 Million Dollar Man

No. It's always been a leftist crap-sheet.

41 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:39:49am

re: #31 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Kudos to the Guardian (can't believe I said that) for making a PUBLIC admission.

Spine.

/or is it (*gasp*) a sense of honor ?

I suppose despite their consistent anti-Israel crap the Guardian can be commended for admitting mistakes and publishing self-critical pieces from time to time.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:40:06am

re: #35 acwgusa

I wouldn't wait til I could look it up.
/

43 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:40:06am

re: #32 MandyManners

Doing this would get you an "F" in Journalism 101. In high school.

Your time or our kids time? My guess is that our kids teachers would not not even know/bother to fact check.

44 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:40:08am

re: #26 Thanos

Yes and there are the page reversion wars as well, Charles did some previous articles on them the past couple years. They are ok to cite as a "for further reading" source, but be careful.

Good God, there are page revision wars. It doesn't just exist in topics that you'd normally think of being subject to them either such as politics, evolutionary theory, etc. Page revision wars even erupt in mundane topics and easily verifiable stuff such as the history of a fricking shopping center.

45 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:40:13am

One other note: sometimes the actual facts and "good stuff" is buried in links in the discussion pages. Sometimes not, second and third source all you read there.

46 acwgusa  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:40:49am

re: #38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In all fairness, I was able to get an "F" in Journalism 101 in high school without Wikipedia.

There's no F in Journalism! There's No F in way, either!

That joke got me talked to by my boss.

47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:41:47am

re: #2 EmmmieG

Rawr on the avatar. That your mom? Double rawr!

48 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:41:49am

You know, I do think it is slightly hypocritical to bash the media for citing wikipedia, though. I've seen many bloggers do so as a matter of course.

49 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:02am

Nicks on the Space Shuttle?

50 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:04am

re: #13 JohnnyReb

Who will fact check the fact checkers?

for the most part, I'd say Charles.

51 Catttt  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:24am

I trust my Bartlett's Familiar Quotations. Takes up a lot of room, and it's not up-to-the-minute (or up to the year), but it is accurate.

52 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:31am

The Whacky World of Wiki.

53 Land Shark  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:37am

Looking at the very sad state of "cough" journalism today I'm not surprised. In fact, I bet this has happened more than once, but since the creator of the hoax hasn't come forth, well, you get the picture.

What was that line from the book and movie 1984? Oh yeah, "He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past."

54 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:42:49am

re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rawr on the avatar. That your mom? Double rawr!

Oh, yeah, I'm the bald one in diapers. I changed it for Mother's Day, and I will change it back just as soon as my children let me back on the computer with my pictures on it.

55 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:43:04am

I want to know what Greg Packer thinks about all this before I make up my mind.

56 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:43:13am

A Navy doctor was among the five service members shot and killed by a soldier at Camp Liberty on Monday, a spokesman in Iraq said.

[Link: www.navytimes.com...]

Three of the other service members were enlisted soldiers, and the fifth was an Army doctor.

57 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:43:27am

Wikipedia will probably become a lot more reliable in the future when there's a better monitoring system. Open source is the way to go. For now, it's got some major flaws.

58 Ben Hur  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:43:31am
World Media Falls for Another Hoax

"Palestine?"

59 harrylook  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:44:06am

Other examples: The US supported the Taliban against the Russians (Taliban didn't exist then). The CIA funded bin Laden in Afghanistan (that kook showed up with his own money and fellow kooks. Jenin massacre. The list is endless, really. And the "fact" doesn't even have to make a little bit of sense.

And the sad part is that corrections don't help. Most people believe the first thing they read and nothing thereafter.

60 doppelganglander  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:44:06am

Um, who is Maurice Jarre? I would check Wikipedia, but under the circumstances...

61 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:44:16am

re: #48 Million Dollar Man

You know, I do think it is slightly hypocritical to bash the media for citing wikipedia, though. I've seen many bloggers do so as a matter of course.

You are missing the point. Wikipedia is a fine source for information, if that information is linked to other primary sources. I cite Wikipedia when I can verify what is there through their links to other sources.

62 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:44:16am

re: #2 EmmmieG

I won't let my kids use wikipedia as a source in their papers, and the media uses it?

It an important lesson that many feel they cannot be bothered to learn. This is the current equivalent of copying straight out of the encyclopedia.
Wikipedia is a good starting point though.

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:44:18am

re: #54 EmmmieG

I think it's sweet. It is actually pretty soothing.

64 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:46:11am

Note: in the case above, the quote that was posted at Wikipedia had NO citation to an original source.

65 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:46:14am

I wish Wiki was around when I was in school....it can be a helpful tool. Of course, I wish we had running water and electricity when I was in school too.

66 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:46:29am

re: #61 Charles

You are missing the point. Wikipedia is a fine source for information, if that information is linked to other primary sources. I cite Wikipedia when I can verify what is there through their links to other sources.

It's usually a good starting place. Kind of a link farm that guides you in the right direction.

67 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:46:31am

re: #58 Ben Hur

"Palestine?"


nah ...

Zuhair Mohsen is perhaps most widely known in the West for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw[1][2]:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

68 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:47:16am

re: #65 Desert Dog

I wish Wiki was around when I was in school....it can be a helpful tool. Of course, I wish we had running water and electricity when I was in school too.

And you walked 5 miles barefoot in the snow too?

69 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:47:28am

re: #62 CyanSnowHawk

It an important lesson that many feel they cannot be bothered to learn. This is the current equivalent of copying straight out of the encyclopedia.
Wikipedia is a good starting point though.

My sons use it too much.....But, they are smart enough to know when it is more of an "opinion" piece rather than something that has been verified.

70 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:47:33am

This must be those "layers" of fact checking the media is always boasting about! Lazy frackin' knotheads!

71 Outrider  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:08am

re: #61 Charles

You are missing the point. Wikipedia is a fine source for information, if that information is linked to other primary sources. I cite Wikipedia when I can verify what is there through their links to other sources.

Excellent, that is the million dollar point that is true for bloggers as well as Wikipedia and the media. Can it be verified through reliable sources?

72 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:18am
73 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:28am

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks.

74 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:32am

re: #33 Gearhead

Liability management.

Could be.

re: #41 Million Dollar Man

I suppose despite their consistent anti-Israel crap the Guardian can be commended for admitting mistakes and publishing self-critical pieces from time to time.

Don't follow them that closely. I'll have to bite my tongue a bit.

However, the irony is remarkable. The Guardian's obit on Jack Profumo was an unvarnished hit-piece. Profumo's legacy is precisely his reaction to the exposure of the lie he had told in Commons. The Guardian all but ignored that aspect of his life (saying, in essence ... oh, by the way, he also worked at Toynbee Hall for many years.)

/they're still assholes in my books

75 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:33am

re: #68 Erik The Red

And you walked 5 miles barefoot in the snow too?

Uphill both ways.....AND, we had to fight off dinosaurs! And that was in the 1960's....don't ask my father about his childhood!

76 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:48:39am

re: #61 Charles

You are missing the point. Wikipedia is a fine source for information, if that information is linked to other primary sources. I cite Wikipedia when I can verify what is there through their links to other sources.

Yep when I cite them I usually say something like "read for general background but check the links at the bottom" It's easier to point at their collection of links and sources on a subject than to link fifteen things for clarity.

77 iLikeCandy  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:26am

The next time I provide a source and someone says "Oh, that's just the National Enquirer" or "Ha! wikipedia!?" well, l'll know what to say.

78 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:32am

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

We would have--if we could have afforded snow.

Snow, huh? You were lucky:

79 whiterasta  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:35am

re: #75 Desert Dog

You was lucky, having dinosaurs!

80 Outrider  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:35am

re: #68 Erik The Red

And you walked 5 miles barefoot in the snow too?

Uphill. Both ways. And don't forget them wolves nipping at the heels. ;-)>

81 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:38am

re: #52 jorline

The Whacky World of Wiki.

I call it Wikipedestrian.

82 jamgarr  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:49:51am

re: #49 Nevergiveup

Nicks on the Space Shuttle?

Eddies in the space/time continuum.

83 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:50:05am

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

We would have--if we could have afforded snow.

Snow? I was so poor I could not afford to pay attention in school.

84 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:50:06am

Op-Ed: Netanyahu shouldn’t force Iranian issue on US
New York Times editorial urges Israeli PM not to pressure US administration into unnecessary moves regarding Tehran, hopes Obama will resist any pressure by Jerusalem

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

The Tehran Times? In with the enemy lock stock and barrel!

85 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:50:16am

re: #82 jamgarr

Eddies in the space/time continuum.

Who's Eddie?

86 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:50:22am

re: #60 doppelganglander

Um, who is Maurice Jarre? I would check Wikipedia, but under the circumstances...

He did some damned fine film scores.

87 tryagain  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:50:37am

my kids high school doesn't allow citation of wiki - for anything submitted.

88 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:51:25am

OT ... I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh that much, but today on my walk I decided to listen in for about 40 minutes. He was very uplifting in his delivery as he facetiously spoke about Obama fixing health care in two days after professionals have been trying for years to do it without a lot of success. He basically said that Obama's plans will not work and that in 2012, the country will know it. While I am not as sure as he is that the country will be able to figure this out, I found his optimism refreshing.

89 wrenchwench  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:51:35am

re: #64 Charles

Note: in the case above, the quote that was posted at Wikipedia had NO citation to an original source.

This is from the article linked at the top:

If anything, Fitzgerald said, he expected newspapers to avoid his quote because it had no link to a source — and even might trigger alarms as "too good to be true." But many blogs and several newspapers used the quotes at the start or finish of their obituaries.

(See, I can cite a source!)

90 Million Dollar Man  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:51:39am

re: #74 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My favourite read in the Guardian ever: Dear Limey Assholes

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:51:40am

Ever gone "Wiki diving" (all I can think of to call it) where one article takes you to the next and so on. For basic learning, Wiki rocks.

92 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:52:06am

re: #80 Outrider

Uphill. Both ways. And don't forget them wolves nipping at the heels. ;-)>

Actually, my school was on top of a hill. When it snowed, we did have to walk uphill in the snow. But, we had snow boots and we had a sled, which we rode back home. I could make it from the school playground to my house if there was enough on the ground. Those were the days!

93 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:52:58am

NASA TV is pretty cool atm.

94 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:53:28am

re: #88 _RememberTonyC

OT ... I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh that much, but today on my walk I decided to listen in for about 40 minutes. He was very uplifting in his delivery as he facetiously spoke about Obama fixing health care in two days after professionals have been trying for years to do it without a lot of success. He basically said that Obama's plans will not work and that in 2012, the country will know it. While I am not as sure as he is that the country will be able to figure this out, I found his optimism refreshing.

No kidney failure yet? Wanda should get her money back from the Voodoo doll maker she went to.

95 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:53:39am

re: #85 Guanxi88

Who's Eddie?

Don't make me go Crazy Eddie on you...

96 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:54:18am

re: #95 Thanos

Don't make me go Crazy Eddie on you...

It turns out he WAS crazy afterall!

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:54:22am

re: #64 Charles

Note: in the case above, the quote that was posted at Wikipedia had NO citation to an original source.

Precisely, ... which appears to be the key to the Irish student's point.
He seems to have finely-tuned his baiting of the trap.

/"well done" to him

98 UberInfidel67  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:55:36am

And how many times has Rosie ODonnell said something using stats from Wiki? "IT'S ON WIKI...IT'S TRUE, ELIZABETH! BUSH IT HITLER AND FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!"

99 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #95 Thanos

Don't make me go Crazy Eddie on you...

I have a TV I bought at Crazy Eddie.

:)

100 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:57:07am

re: #96 Desert Dog

It turns out he WAS crazy afterall!

For background on the Crazy Eddie Probe.... see Wikipedia ! (scroll down)

101 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:57:13am

We do' need no stinkin' fact check!

/msm

102 SummerSong  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:57:17am

re: #95 Thanos

Don't make me go Crazy Eddie on you...

I always figured Crazy Eddie might just as likely charge way too much for an item as too little. He was crazy after all. ;)

103 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:57:27am

It is easy to have this happen when biased opinion is packaged as objective news.

104 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:57:40am

US elected to UN Human Rights Council

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

The US, Belgium and Norway will replace Canada, Germany, and Switzerland, while China, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia will be reappointed to three-year terms on the Geneva-based body.

Former Czech president Vaclav Havel described the exercise as a "farce" in a stinging essay in Sunday's New York Times.

US envoy Susan Rice told reporters the Obama administration felt engagement would offer the opportunity to work "from within, rather than standing on the sidelines."

Sad day. I side with Havel.

105 lawhawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:58:01am

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Indeed. I had to read it a couple of times myself to see the insane stupidity that the lawyers couldn't get this information from other sources, but chose to go through wiki.

It's one thing to rely on it for general information, but I would never contemplate using it as a key piece of evidence. Ever.

106 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:58:05am
107 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:58:09am

re: #98 UberInfidel67

And how many times has Rosie ODonnell said something using stats from Wiki? "IT'S ON WIKI...IT'S TRUE, ELIZABETH! BUSH IT HITLER AND FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!"

She should used these links instead:

Crash Diet

Face Lift

STFU

108 lawhawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:58:38am

re: #106 buzzsawmonkey

That's just insane.

109 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:59:23am
110 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:59:47am

Give someone a keyboard and they think they are a scholar.

111 lawhawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:00:25pm

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

*glug*

112 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:00:40pm

re: #90 Million Dollar Man

My favourite read in the Guardian ever: Dear Limey Assholes

OMG!
ROFLMAO

My dear, beloved Brits,
I understand the Guardian is sponsoring a service where British citizens write to Americans to advise them on how to vote. Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope!

Feel free to respond to this email with your advice. Please keep in mind that I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don't use big, fancy words.

Set me straight, folks!

ooooooo!
I LOVE it!

113 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:00:50pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

US elected to UN Human Rights Council

how much is that gonna cost?

114 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:01:10pm

re: #106 buzzsawmonkey

I had a rowboat that was sunk by a crazy eddy.

Buzz stick to the current topic please.

115 rhino2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:01:16pm

It is indeed entertaining when these situations prop up to "test" the media and show us all what we already know from the years of fact-checking behind them at places such as right here.

116 kansas  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:01:21pm

They fell for Obama didn't they? What else could we expect?

117 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:02:10pm
118 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:02:25pm

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

Ha, you came up with that current pun swiftly.

119 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:02:32pm

HOLD THE WEDDIN!

So this "university student' is PROUD that he was able to desiminate false and misleading quotes attributed to someone he had probably
A) never met
B) didn't even know about (picked randomly, I'm sure)

I wonder how the 2 families feel!

1) Maurice Jarre's for having something attributed to him falsley
2) this little snot noses for raising an ass

120 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:02:34pm
121 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:15pm

"Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts!" ;-)

122 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:17pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Just the Constitution. Nothing, really.

/yeah, it's not like we use it any more anyway...

123 revobob  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:26pm

re: #118 turn

Ha, you came up with that current pun swiftly.

He's always been a rapid thinker!

124 Rednek  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:28pm

Obama's budget kills the National Nuclear Security Administration

Obama has started work on destroying America's nuclear deterence.

I am just dumbfounded by this guy's foolishness.

Talk among yourselves.

125 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #120 buzzsawmonkey

Now where is the fun in that?

Hey that's not a pun, no fair.

126 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:39pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Just the Constitution. Nothing, really.

That old thing? Sounds cheap.
/

127 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:03:59pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

US elected to UN Human Rights Council

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

The US, Belgium and Norway will replace Canada, Germany, and Switzerland, while China, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia will be reappointed to three-year terms on the Geneva-based body.

Former Czech president Vaclav Havel described the exercise as a "farce" in a stinging essay in Sunday's New York Times.

US envoy Susan Rice told reporters the Obama administration felt engagement would offer the opportunity to work "from within, rather than standing on the sidelines."

Sad day. I side with Havel.

Water boarding paid off, we're now in good company.....

///////////

128 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:04:30pm

Was this fake quote picked up and run in any American papers?

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:04:38pm

re: #101 jcm

We do' need no stinkin' fact check!

/msm

What th' heck, I'm sure it's like the first iteration.
I'll just go ahead and hook up VDD to that pin.

/*grin* ... I remember you telling me about that

130 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:04:40pm

Talk about media bias...Medea Benjamin is writing for the Salem-News.

Who Will Stop the AIPAC Before it is Too Late?

They let her write Pali propaganda, post pictures, and finish with "Salem-News.com has posted a video with this story that shows the real story of Gaza. "

[SPIT]

131 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:04:48pm

re: #126 CyanSnowHawk

That old thing? Sounds cheap.
/

It just needs some "updatin" thats all.....it's old and was written by dead old slave owning hypocritical white guys.

132 wrenchwench  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:05:05pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

US elected to UN Human Rights Council

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

The US, Belgium and Norway will replace Canada, Germany, and Switzerland, while China, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia will be reappointed to three-year terms on the Geneva-based body.

Former Czech president Vaclav Havel described the exercise as a "farce" in a stinging essay in Sunday's New York Times.

US envoy Susan Rice told reporters the Obama administration felt engagement would offer the opportunity to work "from within, rather than standing on the sidelines."

Sad day. I side with Havel.

As do I. As usual.

133 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:05:17pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

HOLD THE WEDDIN!

So this "university student' is PROUD that he was able to desiminate false and misleading quotes attributed to someone he had probably
A) never met
B) didn't even know about (picked randomly, I'm sure)

I wonder how the 2 families feel!

1) Maurice Jarre's for having something attributed to him falsley
2) this little snot noses for raising an ass

It's unfortunate but I think we'll be seeing an increase in vandalism at Wiki due to this kids actions.

134 John Neverbend  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:05:23pm

re: #40 whiterasta

No. It's always been a leftist crap-sheet.

The only thing that has changed is that it's no longer full of typos. Its nickname of "The Grauniad" is now redundant.

135 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:05:29pm

re: #118 turn

Ha, you came up with that current pun swiftly.

Although, sometimes loess is more, especially if you need some dry ground to stand on.

136 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:05:47pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

HOLD THE WEDDIN!

So this "university student' is PROUD that he was able to desiminate false and misleading quotes attributed to someone he had probably
A) never met
B) didn't even know about (picked randomly, I'm sure)

I wonder how the 2 families feel!

1) Maurice Jarre's for having something attributed to him falsley
2) this little snot noses for raising an ass

I think he is proud that he has highlighted a serious failing of the media. And likely a little worried that the failing was so prevalent.

137 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:06:10pm
138 rhino2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:06:17pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

I don't think he ever intended to let it go on forever, and have the quote attributed to Jarre, so I don't see it as such an asshole move. He took advantage of a situation when he figured the media would be most vulnerable, and succeeded. The quote was removed from wikipedia and he has since come forward about it, no harm to Jarre, plenty of harm to the media (if there was any reputation left to harm).

139 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:06:28pm

re: #124 Rednek

Obama's budget kills the National Nuclear Security Administration

Obama has started work on destroying America's nuclear deterence.

I am just dumbfounded by this guy's foolishness.

Talk among yourselves.

He is gonna get us all killed.

140 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:06:40pm

re: #124 Rednek

Obama's budget kills the National Nuclear Security Administration

Obama has started work on destroying America's nuclear deterence.

I am just dumbfounded by this guy's foolishness.

Talk among yourselves.

Meanwhile the Nuclear Regulatory Commission can claim 25 percent more employees.

Why is the NRC increasing when were aren't building plants?

141 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:06:57pm

re: #135 EmmmieG

Although, sometimes loess is more moor,

Only when it gets wet, Peat!

142 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:05pm

Yet is the government any better at fact checking:

Dead Woman Gets Federal Stimulus Check

ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY -- Millions of Americans on Social Security are receiving $250 checks as part of the president's stimulus plan -- including an Anne Arundel woman who died more than 40 years ago.

And from further down the page:

Social Security representatives said there is a good explanation. Of the about 52 million checks that have been mailed out, about 10,000 of those have been sent to people who are deceased.

The agency blames the error on the strict mid-June deadline of mailing out all of the checks, which didn't leave officials much time to clean up all of their records.

40 years is not enough time to clean up the records?

143 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:08pm

Anyone?

Any American papers fall for this? Or just blogs?

144 Pupdawg  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:09pm

Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts!

145 unreconstructed rebel  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:10pm

re: #9 EmmmieG

That's from the self-esteem ticker tape that runs at the bottom edge of the teleprompter.

Does it face Himself, the audience, or both?

146 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:14pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Only when it gets wet, Peat!

But let's not get bogged down in cement-ics.

147 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:21pm

re: #133 Gus 802

It's unfortunate but I think we'll be seeing an increase in vandalism at Wiki due to this kids actions.

WORSE ,,, he called it an "EXPERIMENT"
Just wanted to see what happens!

"But Officer, I just thouht I would walk into a bank with a fake bomb vest strapped to me to see what happens, as , you know, an exeriment in human reaction"?

148 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:36pm

re: #135 EmmmieG

Although, sometimes loess is more, especially if you need some dry ground to stand on.

Ya never want to be all a loam.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #142 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yet is the government any better at fact checking:

Dead Woman Gets Federal Stimulus Check

40 years is not enough time to clean up the records?

Obama is still paying for some of his votes.

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:07:58pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

Excellent point!

151 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:08:11pm

re: #138 rhino2

I don't think he ever intended to let it go on forever, and have the quote attributed to Jarre, so I don't see it as such an asshole move. He took advantage of a situation when he figured the media would be most vulnerable, and succeeded. The quote was removed from wikipedia and he has since come forward about it, no harm to Jarre, plenty of harm to the media (if there was any reputation left to harm).

Doesn't matter how 'long' he thought it would go on
HE put the quote there. It didn't belong there

HE's an ASSHOLE

152 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:08:27pm

re: #139 Nevergiveup

He is gonna get us all killed.

what about that oath thingy he took?

153 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #143 Cognito

Anyone?

Any American papers fall for this? Or just blogs?

Avanti is that you?

154 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:08:54pm

re: #152 brookly red

what about that oath thingy he took?

Just words....just words

155 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:00pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Only when it gets wet, Peat!

Oh, for Peat's sake let's not get bogged down in a pun thread!

156 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:00pm

Posted this late on the last thread.

PRUDEN: Even a messiah loses his training wheels

But Mr. Obama has already been president for more than a hundred days, and passing the hundred-day mark, irrelevant milestone as it may be, was cited as dead-solid proof that the president is the messiah he told everyone he was. Reality, however, has begun to cast a shadow over the White House, still as faint as the bright golden haze on the meadow but visible enough. "Blaming George" still makes a tingle run up the legs of all the hymn-singing true believers, but outside the embrace of the cult, that tingle is beginning to sting instead. This is Mr. Obama's government now.

Reality Check 101.

157 rhino2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:08pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

But he lives in Dublin, I bet he has a cool accent.

158 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:38pm

re: #153 Erik The Red

Just asking a very -- very -- simple question.

159 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:46pm

re: #155 jcm

Oh, for Peat's sake let's not get bogged down in a pun thread!

This thread has become a quagmire! I am swamped here at work and have to go....see you all later.

160 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:52pm

re: #143 Cognito

Anyone?

Any American papers fall for this? Or just blogs?

Well, we could as the writers of the SFGATE article, but they left that detail out. Probably oversight; nice work, though, huh? Leaving one of the most important questions unanswered.

161 revobob  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:09:58pm

re: #152 brookly red

what about that oath thingy he took?

But see, it was to uphold the Constitution, and EVERYBODY knows it needs to be updated, so he's just upholding the expected new version, pending release.

162 jvic  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:27pm

I like Wikipedia, but for anything serious I trace back to an original source. If an article contains math, I don't accept the results until I have satisfied myself that they were obtained correctly.

A journalist who is found to have used Wikipedia as an authoritative source should be fired and blacklisted. Period.

163 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #152 brookly red

what about that oath thingy he took?

I wasn't watching?

164 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

The bogus quote is actually very nice, not some skeleton in the closet.

"One could say my life itself has been one long soundtrack," Fitzgerald's fake Jarre quote read. "Music was my life, music brought me to life, and music is how I will be remembered long after I leave this life. When I die there will be a final waltz playing in my head that only I can hear."

165 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:31pm

re: #160 Guanxi88

Well, we could as the writers of the SFGATE article, but they left that detail out. Probably oversight; nice work, though, huh? Leaving one of the most important questions unanswered.

I cannot find the quote anywhere in that article.

166 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:34pm

re: #158 Cognito

Just asking a very -- very -- simple question.

Ask the SFGATE writers.

167 nyc redneck  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:52pm

the msm really is like a bunch of vultures looking for anything to bolster their
prejudice views.
they don't look for the truth. they look for ammunition.

168 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:56pm

re: #155 jcm

Oh, for Peat's sake let's not get bogged down in a pun thread!

It's already happened.
As the Irish would say, turf luck!

169 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:10:59pm

OT:

AAARRRGHHH!

The idiot in the cubicle next to mine has a ring tone of the "When The Saints Come Marching In" that sounds like it was done by the people that did Disney's Electrical Parade, set on volume level 11. And he leaves his phone on his desk when he wanders around.

170 rhino2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:11:09pm

re: #161 revobob

But see, it was to uphold the Constitution, and EVERYBODY knows it needs to be updated, so he's just upholding the expected new version, pending release.

I'm fairly sure there's something in there about "All threats, foreign and domestic".

I could be wrong though...

171 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:11:17pm

re: #164 FurryOldGuyJeans

The bogus quote is actually very nice, not some skeleton in the closet.

Oh, that's a juicy quote for an obit writer.

172 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:11:26pm

re: #157 rhino2

But he lives in Dublin, I bet he has a cool accent.

His 1st and only move should be to contact Jarres family and apologize profusely

Experiment my ass

173 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:11:40pm

re: #160 Guanxi88

Well, we could as the writers of the SFGATE article, but they left that detail out. Probably oversight; nice work, though, huh? Leaving one of the most important questions unanswered.

They didn't leave it out, if it didn't happen. And it apparently didn't.

From the Irish Times:

It was posted on the online encyclopedia shortly after his death and later appeared in obituaries published in the Guardian, the London Independent, on the BBC Music Magazine website and in Indian and Australian newspapers.

Huh. It appears only blogs published it, here in the good old United States of America.

174 whiterasta  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:11:55pm

re: #169 CyanSnowHawk

Grab it an throw it in the toilet....

175 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:03pm

re: #170 rhino2

I'm fairly sure there's something in there about "All threats, foreign and domestic".

I could be wrong though...

I took that oath, but is that in the Presidential One?

176 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:09pm

An excellent article......

The executive pay system is broken

In the wake of the failure of WaMu and Lehman Brothers, some say the system may have spun so far out of control that it pushes executives to adopt strategies that damage the companies they run, rather than improve them.

Berkshire Hathaway Chairman and Chief Executive Warren Buffett said this month that the main cause of the current financial crisis was excessive compensation, which encouraged executives at financial institutions to take on too much leverage.

"The crisis exposed flaws in exec compensation, showing the system encouraged risk-taking without an appreciation of the ramifications, which in some cases were entity threatening," said Bob McCormick, chief policy officer at corporate governance advisory firm Glass Lewis. "In good times, executives get paid extremely well and in bad times they get paid just very well."

Buffett blamed large institutional shareholders for not speaking out enough against lavish CEO pay. He also fingered directors for rubber-stamping compensation plans and consultants for helping companies exceed the excesses of rivals, year after year.

I strongly encourage you to read the whole thing.

177 revobob  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:28pm

re: #169 CyanSnowHawk

OT:

AAARRRGHHH!

The idiot in the cubicle next to mine has a ring tone of the "When The Saints Come Marching In" that sounds like it was done by the people that did Disney's Electrical Parade, set on volume level 11. And he leaves his phone on his desk when he wanders around.

I wish you'd said something- I'll turn it down...

178 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:30pm

re: #172 sattv4u2

His 1st and only move should be to contact Jarres family and apologize profusely

Experiment my ass

I agree. An obit is the last time most people will be written about in the newspaper.

179 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:45pm

re: #145 unreconstructed rebel

Does it face Himself, the audience, or both?

Well, openly, him, and subliminally, the press.

180 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:48pm

re: #173 Cognito

What's your fucking point?

181 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:48pm

re: #124 Rednek

Obama's budget kills the National Nuclear Security Administration

Obama has started work on destroying America's nuclear deterence.

I am just dumbfounded by this guy's foolishness.

Talk among yourselves.

And the hits just keep on commin'.

182 rhino2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:56pm

re: #165 MandyManners

I cannot find the quote anywhere in that article.

The fake Jarre quote? It's in there..

"One could say my life itself has been one long soundtrack," Fitzgerald's fake Jarre quote read. "Music was my life, music brought me to life, and music is how I will be remembered long after I leave this life. When I die there will be a final waltz playing in my head that only I can hear."

183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:12:57pm

re: #158 Cognito

Hey Cog...long time no see. How've you been?

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:02pm

re: #40 whiterasta

No. It's always been a leftist crap-sheet.

I miss Julie Burchill.

185 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:09pm

re: #164 FurryOldGuyJeans

The bogus quote is actually very nice, not some skeleton in the closet.

I could care less if the quote was THE greatest tome in the history of mankind. It did NOT belong there. HE put it there (knowingly)

Wrong is wrong

186 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:12pm

Anyone hear that the Trolly driver who was in an accident in Mass. was a he/she?

187 subsailor68  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:30pm

Hi all. Back from chores. Has this already been covered:

Biden: Helping Unions Grow Will Rebuild Middle Class

Uh, Joe, aren't huge union-backed and negotiated legacy costs a significant part of the problem with GM, Chrysler (and Ford, even though they're still breathing)? And you're proposing to make it easier to do this across the board?

And by the way, this final note in the article:

They (business groups) are also concerned about a provision that would let government arbitrators set a contract if workers and management cannot agree on a first collective bargaining agreement within 120 days.

Now the other shoe drops. Government arbitrators indeed. A euphemism for "bureaucrats". In other words, Government, under this provision, would have the power to make major contract decisions for any business that has a union.

If this isn't socialism, pray tell me what is?

188 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:35pm

re: #169 CyanSnowHawk

OT:

AAARRRGHHH!

The idiot in the cubicle next to mine has a ring tone of the "When The Saints Come Marching In" that sounds like it was done by the people that did Disney's Electrical Parade, set on volume level 11. And he leaves his phone on his desk when he wanders around.

Is there a sprinkler head over his cube?

/just askin' .................. heh

189 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:13:41pm

re: #168 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's already happened.
As the Irish would say, turf luck!

You're just being a old sod.

*nice haircut*

190 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:07pm

re: #84 Nevergiveup

Op-Ed: Netanyahu shouldn’t force Iranian issue on US
New York Times editorial urges Israeli PM not to pressure US administration into unnecessary moves regarding Tehran, hopes Obama will resist any pressure by Jerusalem

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

The Tehran Times? In with the enemy lock stock and barrel!

Like NYC isn't on the hit list should terrorists get nukes from Iran.

191 revobob  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:25pm

re: #170 rhino2

I'm fairly sure there's something in there about "All threats, foreign and domestic".

I could be wrong though...


See, that's just what I mean- When we're all one world, there won't be any Foreign...and most of the domestic ones are ending up in his administration.

192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:33pm

re: #186 Nevergiveup

I seem to remember a few years back they wanted to use the term "ze" instead of he/she. Seriously.

That went quite a way toward nothing.

193 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:33pm

re: #180 MandyManners

What's your fucking point?

My point is pretty clear: It seems no American newspapers fell for this.

As biased and junky as it may be, America's press has long led the world. If you hate the media here, you'd hate it far worse in just about any other country.

194 HelloDare  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:39pm

I'm sure Axelrod and his astroturfing gang are not at all surprised by the hoax.

195 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:14:53pm

re: #183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey Cog...long time no see. How've you been?

Doing well, FBV. You?

196 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

Doesn't matter how 'long' he thought it would go on
HE put the quote there. It didn't belong there

HE's an ASSHOLE

Wiki allows anyone to edit the pages. The standard is that when one does edit the pages that they do so in a professional manner and it is then reviewed by others along the way. Entering false information into Wiki is not the professional of "moral" standard even if it results in catching some in the media in perpetrating a hoax and applauding him is applauding an act of vandalism. It would be the same as someone forging a late persons memoirs to see if the media would fall for a hoax.

197 Wendya  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:15:08pm

re: #65 Desert Dog

I wish Wiki was around when I was in school....it can be a helpful tool. Of course, I wish we had running water and electricity when I was in school too.

I remember having to go to the library to research. Now with the internet at their fingertips, why aren't kids better educated today?

198 UberInfidel67  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:15:14pm

re: #107 Desert Dog
I agree! LMAO*******

199 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:15:48pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

An excellent article......

The executive pay system is broken

I strongly encourage you to read the whole thing.

Who the fuck sets and pays the greedy CEO's? The greedy, blood sucking shareholders.

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:18pm

re: #195 Cognito

Doing well, thanks.

201 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:18pm

re: #143 Cognito

Anyone?

Any American papers fall for this? Or just blogs?

The article that Charles linked says that The Guardian is the only media outlet to make a mea culpa. Doesn't say how many or who else ran with the story.

202 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:21pm

re: #124 Rednek

Obama's budget kills the National Nuclear Security Administration

Obama has started work on destroying America's nuclear deterence.

I am just dumbfounded by this guy's foolishness.

Talk among yourselves.

Well, he said he was going to get rid of nuclear weapons.

203 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:39pm

Reynolds argues that the ONLY niche where newspapers and the paid media can thrive in the future is hard reporting. There's still a demand for facts on the ground. And it's hard work, and expensive, extracting them.

The current media are spinning off in the opposite direction. With a few exceptions like Totten, they're lazy SOBs who want to be spoon fed their facts. And there's no more value added in that than in some besotted blogger spewing his or her stream of consciousness during a night of drunken excess.

204 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:49pm

re: #189 jcm

You're just being a old sod.

*nice haircut*

I'm feeling a bit light-headed.

/and the Sheltie next door didn't recognize me when I got back

205 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:16:54pm

re: #169 CyanSnowHawk

OT:

AAARRRGHHH!

The idiot in the cubicle next to mine has a ring tone of the "When The Saints Come Marching In" that sounds like it was done by the people that did Disney's Electrical Parade, set on volume level 11. And he leaves his phone on his desk when he wanders around.

Take a box, put the phone in the bottom, fill the box with packing peanuts, tape the top flaps to the out side so the box is open top. Tape the box to the ceiling.

Won't happen again.
Guaranteed.

206 Wendya  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:17:00pm

re: #181 Russkilitlover

And the hits just keep on commin'.

You can bet your ass many of those cuts demanded by Obama will not make it to the final version.

207 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #201 Russkilitlover

The article that Charles linked says that The Guardian is the only media outlet to make a mea culpa. Doesn't say how many or who else ran with the story.

See my quote from the Irish Times.

See it and raise it, if you can, with an example of an American paper publishing the fake quote.

208 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:17:35pm

re: #175 Nevergiveup

I took that oath, but is that in the Presidential One?

your right... he only has to protect the constitution. my bad.

209 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:17:40pm

re: #165 MandyManners

I cannot find the quote anywhere in that article.

Well, presumably it was pulled from WIKI after the imposture was discre: #173 Cognito

Huh. It appears only blogs published it, here in the good old United States of America.

overed.

That's my point: THE SFGATE writers never specified whether any US papers carried the fake quote. In fact, they never said one way or the other. This may be because they don't know, can't be bothered to check, or simply don't care one way or the other.

If, however, you point with pride to this as evidence of the superiority of american print journalism, then you damn with faint praise, indeed.

210 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:17:58pm

re: #199 Erik The Red

Who the fuck sets and pays the greedy CEO's? The greedy, blood sucking shareholders.

The article talks about the shareholder compensation committees. They are chosen by the CEO's and the current system means that they need to keep the CEO's happy and tell them what they want to hear.

211 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:18:23pm

re: #209 Guanxi88

Eh.

212 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:18:49pm

re: #186 Nevergiveup

Anyone hear that the Trolly driver who was in an accident in Mass. was a he/she?

Yeah, btw I've run across two he/she's here at work. I've actually come to believe it's not a matter of choice but rather a true case of being trapped in the wrong body. One of these cases is pretty bizarre, the guy was married and had three kids and was haunted with the urge to whack his pee pee off (as in cut it off). That triggered the psychiatric visits that eventually led to his sex change.

213 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:19:09pm

re: #187 subsailor68

Great point. There are several layers to card check, including the mandatory arbitration provisions. The unions control the labor apparatus in a Democratic government. Arbitration imposes third party decisions in labor disputes on business management. It's another union play to take over private sector business.

The unions will do a great job managing Chrysler and GM, you can be sure of that!/

214 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:19:25pm

re: #65 Desert Dog

I wish Wiki was around when I was in school....it can be a helpful tool. Of course, I wish we had running water and electricity when I was in school too.

Try doing engineering math on a slide rule in the Navy's electronic technician B school. I still have the thing just to play "guess what it is" to anyone under 50.

215 Ben Hur  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:19:36pm

re: #180 MandyManners

What's your fucking point?

He's psyched HE didn't copy and paste it.

216 J.S.  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:19:43pm

re: #15 Thanos

After a while, you just look for that little lock icon (in the upper-right-hand corner of a Wiki page), and that's like a signal of "uh-oh" (in other words the topic is contentious or the page is being vandalized, etc.) Wiki is an interesting, introductory source -- must be used with the usual caveats...(I suppose, though, that the real problem-makers in the article were the print newspapers, The Guardian, etc., which just go with the bogus quotes, while Wiki caught the manufactured quote relatively quickly...)

217 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:19:58pm

re: #193 Cognito

My point is pretty clear: It seems no American newspapers fell for this.

As biased and junky as it may be, America's press has long led the world. If you hate the media here, you'd hate it far worse in just about any other country.

Absolutely no proof in the article that American media wasn't played for suckers, they just won't 'fess up to it.

So far, The Guardian is the only publication to make a public mea culpa, while others have eliminated or amended their online obituaries without any reference to the original version — or in a few cases, still are citing Fitzgerald's florid prose weeks after he pointed out its true origin.

218 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:20:06pm

It could be that American newspapers don't have the class to recognize who Maurice Jarre was.

/now when Michael Jackson passes away ...

219 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:20:43pm

re: #193 Cognito

My point is pretty clear: It seems no American newspapers fell for this.

As biased and junky as it may be, America's press has long led the world. If you hate the media here, you'd hate it far worse in just about any other country.

Could that possibly be because Americans are just not all that interested in Maurice Jarre?

220 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:20:47pm

re: #186 Nevergiveup

Anyone hear that the Trolly driver who was in an accident in Mass. was a he/she?

I heard it was a "he" who was texting a "she."

221 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:21:15pm

re: #153 Erik The Red

Avanti is that you?

Apparently, Cog is me in a alternate universe, the poor bastard.

222 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:21:30pm

re: #212 turn

Yeah, btw I've run across two he/she's here at work. I've actually come to believe it's not a matter of choice but rather a true case of being trapped in the wrong body. One of these cases is pretty bizarre, the guy was married and had three kids and was haunted with the urge to whack his pee pee off (as in cut it off). That triggered the psychiatric visits that eventually led to his sex change.

That's one urge I have never been a favorite of?

223 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:21:31pm

re: #211 Cognito

Eh.

"eh"? That's it? You ask, insistently, whether any US papers ran the fake quote. You are answered that the Guardian (british) is the only print publication to cop to be fooled by it; that the writers of the article to which you point in pride as demonstrating your point fail to state one way or another whether US papers were similarly duped do not, cannot, or are to lazy to, say, whether this is so is pointed out to you, showing it to be a weak and frail thread upon which to hang one's hopes, and all we get is an "Eh?"

224 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #207 Cognito

See my quote from the Irish Times.

See it and raise it, if you can, with an example of an American paper publishing the fake quote.

CALL , tell me how many daily US papers ran Jarre's obit!

225 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:22:05pm

re: #219 Alouette

GMTA ,, see my 224

226 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:22:54pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

"eh"? That's it? You ask, insistently, whether any US papers ran the fake quote. You are answered that the Guardian (british) is the only print publication to cop to be fooled by it; that the writers of the article to which you point in pride as demonstrating your point fail to state one way or another whether US papers were similarly duped do not, cannot, or are to lazy to, say, whether this is so is pointed out to you, showing it to be a weak and frail thread upon which to hang one's hopes, and all we get is an "Eh?"

Hard to defend getting caught with his pants down around his ankles, spinning furiously.

227 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:22:59pm

re: #193 Cognito

The vast majority of reporters are lazy. The most talented ones, a distinct minority, work their tails off.

228 subsailor68  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:23:08pm

re: #213 quickjustice

Great point. There are several layers to card check, including the mandatory arbitration provisions. The unions control the labor apparatus in a Democratic government. Arbitration imposes third party decisions in labor disputes on business management. It's another union play to take over private sector business.

The unions will do a great job managing Chrysler and GM, you can be sure of that!/

This whole Employee Free Choice Act is Orwellian to me. Since when is removing the secret ballot protections a contribution to free choice? It wouldn't surprise me to see this administration propose the same thing in Federal elections - to help prevent voter fraud and protect our free choices.
(Only partly sarc)

And yeah, I'm with ya on that Chrysler/GM union management concept.

;-)

229 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:23:09pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

The article talks about the shareholder compensation committees. They are chosen by the CEO's and the current system means that they need to keep the CEO's happy and tell them what they want to hear.

BULLSHIT. The shareholders call the shots at the end of it. Everyone is greedy when times are good.

230 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:24:14pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

I gave it what I felt it deserved.

Sorry.

231 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:24:34pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

re: #229 Erik The Red

Shareholders vote on for the board of directors. the board of directors hire/ fire CEO's

Sorry Kilgore ,,, Big Business 101

232 turn  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:24:40pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

That's one urge I have never been a favorite of?

He was a Jehovah's witness and left the religion, started drinking for the first time in his life and ended up crashing a motorcycle drunk before all the he/she stuff came down. Went off the deep end, the company canned him because he didn't report back to work after his trip to Thailand for the operation.

233 Earth56  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:25:33pm

re: #218 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It could be that American newspapers don't have the class to recognize who Maurice Jarre was.

/now when Michael Jackson passes away ...


Didn't he do that commercial for Egg Beaters...you know Beat It

234 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:26:00pm

re: #231 sattv4u2

You should read the article. If you know more about business than Warren Buffet then maybe you can correct him.

235 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:26:02pm

re: #233 Earth56

Groan.

236 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:28:25pm

re: #234 Killgore Trout

You should read the article. If you know more about business than Warren Buffet then maybe you can correct him.

Thanks for making my point. Buffett is the LARGEST shareholder in Berkshire/ Hathaway,, therefore he has the MOST VOTES in picking the board.
His board picks hire the CEO

237 Rexatosis  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:29:10pm

I do not allow my students to use/cite Wikipedia. When they bitch and complain about how the hell are they going to get the information to write their papers I tell them to get their butts in the library and talk to our librarian. Those that follow that simple plan learn something and do well, those that sulk and try to live of the net usually do poorly. I have no use for Wikipedia (then again I can't stand MLA or APA instead of Chicago Manual of Style for citations so I am a bit of a fuddy-duddy but I don't care.)

238 quickjustice  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:29:36pm

re: #234 Killgore Trout

Buffett lost a pile on money on his Goldman play. I invested no money voluntarily in Goldman, just the TARP money that bailed those bastards out. Paulson, you may recall, saved his multi-million dollar pension by bailing out Goldman. And Goldman still is advising Obama.

Wall Street should be kissing our Royal Irish asses for their taxpayer bailouts. Instead, they're busy scheming about how to end run the compensation caps. And they're all Obama's cronies!

239 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:30:12pm

re: #220 Russkilitlover

I heard it was a "he" who was texting a "she."

Maybe he was texting herself?

240 Guanxi88  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #230 Cognito

I gave it what I felt it deserved.

Sorry.

There are a million better ways to make the point of the superiority of the US in the field of journalism over its lesser imitators abroad.

The SF writers should have named names, if they know them, of who got hoaxed stateside; it's a disgrace that they don't specify one way or another on that point - it's their damned job to report on this stuff, and they don't even say whether it was only US blogs or both blogs and papers (unlikely, given the relative obscurity of the composer of the score for Lawrence of Arabia, that a US paper would carry it in any event).

But as to the main point I think you were making - namely, that the US press is still blocks ahead of its foreign competitors, you are correct, of course.

241 Earth56  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:31:27pm

re: #237 Rexatosis

Good for you and I wish more teachers were standing up for the correct way and not the easy path

242 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:32:14pm

re: #237 Rexatosis

I do not allow my students to use/cite Wikipedia. When they bitch and complain about how the hell are they going to get the information to write their papers I tell them to get their butts in the library and talk to our librarian. Those that follow that simple plan learn something and do well, those that sulk and try to live of the net usually do poorly. I have no use for Wikipedia (then again I can't stand MLA or APA instead of Chicago Manual of Style for citations so I am a bit of a fuddy-duddy but I don't care.)

Good for you.

A key skill is to be able to evaluate sources.

243 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:32:45pm

re: #230 Cognito

Cog,

It was an interesting question.

For what it's worth, I just ran and "Archive" search on Google News, for the "One could say my life itself has been one long soundtrack" phrase, for results dated between March 27th and April 27th. No American papers used that quote (that I could find, and I examined all which were available.) Only a handful of American papers even ran a Jarre obit (per Gargle News, at least.)

244 doppelganglander  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:33:25pm

re: #205 jcm

Take a box, put the phone in the bottom, fill the box with packing peanuts, tape the top flaps to the out side so the box is open top. Tape the box to the ceiling.

Won't happen again.
Guaranteed.

There was an episode of "The Office" where Jim did something similar to Andy's phone, except he put the phone inside the ceiling, by moving one of the suspended panels. Andy went so ballistic, he ended up in mandatory anger management classes for the rest of the season.

245 sattv4u2  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:33:38pm

re: #237 Rexatosis

At home we allow our 14 year old son (Private High School Freshman) to use the internet for research

BUT ,,

He also must use our home encyclopedia/ dictionary/ thesuarus as one of his sources!

246 DaddyG  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:39:32pm

Wiki is a great gateway to other sources. I have encouraged my kids to use it as a cursory introduction to subjects but never use it as a primary source. It is very easy to check Wiki with other sources (on line or in print) and they even source materials for you.

Depending in Wiki for something other than an on-line discussion and then failing to back it up with further research is the height of laziness.

247 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:45:27pm

re: #244 doppelganglander

There was an episode of "The Office" where Jim did something similar to Andy's phone, except he put the phone inside the ceiling, by moving one of the suspended panels. Andy went so ballistic, he ended up in mandatory anger management classes for the rest of the season.

We're vicious to each other round here. Gotta have a sense of humor.

Closest we came to a guy going ballistic was a new guy, and a prankster. He had all his projects carefully plotted on the white board in his cube. We swapped it out with a blank one.....

He came close to melting down, we decided to have some mercy and showed him we had just swapped them.

248 Cognito  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:57:54pm

re: #247 jcm

And you moved my stapler, too.

249 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 12:58:56pm
250 alegrias  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:03:12pm

OT

Bwa ha ha , White House wouldn't send anyone to refute Dick Cheney's assertions that releasing CIA information memos he requested on enhanced interrogation techniques on Neil Cavuto's show, would clear things up.

251 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:15:07pm

Brilliant! Never Mind the Bollocks! Now where's me Guinness?

252 jcm  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:23:16pm

re: #248 Cognito

And you moved my stapler, too.

I'd put super glue on the staples......

;-P

253 Ezekiel2517  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:30:14pm

"These pretzels are making me thirsty!"
-Maurice Jarre

/

254 Euler  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:58:12pm

True enough, Wikipedia's content is not entirely trustworthy. But what deserves more trust is Wikipedia's edit history. The history is, after all, quite probative in this particular instance:
The bogus quotes are added in Revision as of 02:29, 30 March 2009, and are deleted in Revision as of 11:51, 30 March 2009.

255 Code Red 21  Tue, May 12, 2009 1:58:54pm

It would be funny, because the MSM got caught with their proverbial pants down, if it was something that happened once, maybe, but this happens just about all of the time. Can't trust the bastards to tell the truth about anything.

256 LC LaWedgie  Tue, May 12, 2009 3:59:51pm

"Simply because an idiot can type doesn't mean he can think." - LC LaWedgie

/trust but verify

257 jack straw  Tue, May 12, 2009 4:11:36pm

as the infamous yasir arafat noted- repeat a lie often enough and they will believe it -

258 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 4:18:10pm

Will this now become Jarre's Law?

259 Crossie  Tue, May 12, 2009 4:53:47pm

re: #5 coquimbojoe

They are lazy. Don't make them actually,...er...report.

Today's journalists are too busy being activists.

260 dak  Tue, May 12, 2009 4:59:38pm

Yep, It's like the supposed quote from Enola Gay:

"My God, what have we done?..."

It never happened. The quote was: "My God, loook at that sonovabitch go!" (from the Co-pilot of Enola Gay)

Sez who? Sez MGen Charles Sweeney (then Maj Sweeney). He was on both missions, flew the instrument plane on the first and dropped on nagasaki.

But I guess that doesn't sound contrite or controversial enough so the media changed it in the fifties.

261 Crossie  Tue, May 12, 2009 5:01:35pm

re: #32 MandyManners

Doing this would get you an "F" in Journalism 101. In high school.

But do we know that for certain? Even the curriculum may be slanted.

262 hopperandadropper  Tue, May 12, 2009 5:55:31pm

This is further proof, if any more was required, that most journalists are idiots. Unfortunately, they're idiots who are convinced they are smarter than the rest of us.

BTW, in my experience Wikipedia is usually pretty good as a source of scientific information. However, "trust but verify" applies in spades.


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