Associated Press Declares War on the Internet

Media • Views: 4,290

Here’s one of the most short-sighted and self-destructive things I’ve ever seen the Associated Press do — they’re going to try to prevent search engines and blogs from even linking to their articles, unless they pay for the privilege.

Unbelievable. Rather than embrace the openness of the web and the vastly increased reach it gives them, the AP is going to pull its head back into its shell and build walls, in an ultimately futile attempt to control access to their stories. The goal seems to be nothing less than to destroy the concept of “fair use.” It’s the garrison mentality, writ large.

And not only that — they’re apparently planning to embed spyware in their articles that will phone home to AP: A.P. Cracks Down on Unpaid Use of Articles on Web.

Each article — and, in the future, each picture and video — would go out with what The A.P. called a digital “wrapper,” data invisible to the ordinary consumer that is intended, among other things, to maximize its ranking in Internet searches. The software would also send signals back to The A.P., letting it track use of the article across the Web.

How do you like the idea that the Associated Press will be spying on your Internet usage?

And their entire premise for this misguided move is wrong. Having links to their articles on search engines and blogs helps their revenue situation — enormously. A lot of people are clicking those links who wouldn’t have found them otherwise, and when they click through, the sites that host the AP articles increase their advertising impressions and click-throughs as well.

For this reason, I believe that if the AP is successful at shutting down the linking of their articles, it’s actually going to end up hurting their bottom line very substantially, not just from the loss of traffic but from the horrible publicity they’ll get when they try to enforce these draconian restrictions, in a medium that inherently resists restrictions.

They think it’s bad now — just wait.

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273 comments
1 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:41:20am

I seem to recall yourposting an article about this within the past year.

2 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:41:55am

This really isn't the way to restore confidence and trust in the media, AP.

3 shiplord kirel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:42:39am

We don't have to boycott AP, they are doing it for us.
/

4 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:42:58am

They want to be unlinked? I can accommodate that desire. There are other news sources.

5 soxfan4life  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:00am

Maybe Rahm Emanuel gave them the spy ware program. He reminds me of Jim Carey's character Edward Nigma in the Batman movie. I can se him with his stupid hat on collecting everyone's mind data.

6 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:11am

Maybe they were ordered to do so by their masters in the Caliphate.

7 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:18am

BRING IT ON You Motherfrakkers!

8 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:28am

Which reminds me that it's time to unsubscribe to their youtube channel too.

9 soxfan4life  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:49am

re: #6 MJ

Maybe they were ordered to do so by their masters in the Caliphate.

It's a new fundraising plan for the DNC

10 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:50am

After all, they are the Associated (With Terrorists) Press!

11 WindHorse  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:43:55am

time to bail out AP I guess... come on Nancy... just a few trillion...

12 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:44:06am

Good luck with that AP.

13 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:44:56am

Silver lining; they can't spread their Israel and US-hatin' as well.

Greetings, Lizardim. I'm drinking a beer in the late afternoon sun,

14 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:45:23am

re: #6 MJ

What?

15 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:45:38am

Smart money says some tech types figure out how to disable the wrapper pronto.

16 rwmofo  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:46:10am

When an organization hates 1/2 their customers (conservatives), why should you expect them to be rational?

17 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:46:16am

I can't imagine this is going to work out any better than when the NYT put everything behind a paid firewall. If nobody can link to their articles, nobody's going to read them.

18 Catttt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:46:26am

Who needs the AP? I usually get news a day before they publish it anyway.

Maybe they want to go out of business.

19 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:46:28am

Well there is an issue with getting paid for content.

But the impulse to act as they have reveals even more their biases towards leftism. With leftism we see paternalistic, totalitarian practices adopted throughout the 20th century.

As a market participant, AP would be better to innovate and adapt - maybe cover stories in ways that aren't so damned biased that people with disposable incomes would pay for the content rather than try to decipher AP articles for the few facts they convey after filtering out the pomposity.

JMO.

20 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:10am

... In view of the Eiffel Tower. (That part was cut off.)

21 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:11am

re: #13 Occasional Reader

Silver lining; they can't spread their Israel and US-hatin' as well.

Greetings, Lizardim. I'm drinking a beer in the late afternoon sun,

Donde esta usted?

22 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:42am

Headline,

AP Commits Suicide.

Sorry, can't link to it.

23 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:43am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

... In view of the Eiffel Tower. (That part was cut off.)

Mais non!

24 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:48am

re: #14 Sharmuta

What?

AP, has, over the years, had an unusually close relationship with terrorists.

25 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:48am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

... In view of the Eiffel Tower. (That part was cut off.)

Eat some snails and froggies for us, OR

26 rwmofo  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:47:59am

When the milk is free why pay for the COW?

27 mbruce  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:48:33am

Let them die the natural death they deserve, no bailouts.
Oh, yeah...nevermind...

28 Catttt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:48:38am

re: #26 rwmofo

When the milk is free why pay for the COW?

Steaks.

29 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:49:21am

re: #26 rwmofo

When the milk is free why pay for the COW?

I would say AP is not a cow, more like a bull and, of course, full of BS

30 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:49:40am

Anyone recall the name of the blog that AP almost shut down a few years ago?
I know they went after the Drudge Retort last year but this was a different blog that was forced to remove a group of photos it had commented upon that came from the AP.

31 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:49:50am

AP go p*ss up a rope.re: #20 Occasional Reader

... In view of the Eiffel Tower. (That part was cut off.)

That's only a 110 minutes speed-train ride away from me.

32 rwmofo  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:50:03am

re: #26 rwmofo

When the milk is free why pay for the COW?

No, I wasn't talking abut my girlfriend.

*Ducks*

33 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:50:06am

It never ceases to amaze me that leftism/liberalism still benefits from the stereotype and perception that it is an open minded, tolerant way of thinking.
Reality demonstrates that they are quite the opposite - totalitarian control freaks.
*shakes head*

34 yma o hyd  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:50:20am

Its not just the 'paying-for-AP' I find horrendous, its this, as Charles says above:

'How do you like the idea that the Associated Press will be spying on your Internet usage?'

Me no likey!
There are already far too many organisations spying on us - this looks far too much like thought-control to me to feel comfortable with.

35 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:50:40am

re: #30 MJ

Anyone recall the name of the blog that AP almost shut down a few years ago?
I know they went after the Drudge Retort last year but this was a different blog that was forced to remove a group of photos it had commented upon that came from the AP.

The Snapped Shot I think

36 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:50:51am

re: #31 callahan23

PIMF should have deleted the whole AP part

37 rwmofo  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:51:09am

re: #29 Desert Dog

I would say AP is not a cow, more like a bull and, of course, full of BS

Did someone mention Katie Couric? Ya know, she puts the BS in CBS.

38 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:51:10am

How does the AP like the idea that I will henceforth not read anything that they churn out?

Seriously.

39 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:51:10am

Posting is very wonky... Damn frog wifi!

40 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:51:35am

re: #31 callahan23

That's only a 110 minutes speed-train ride away from me.

You can see France from your house?

41 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:52:00am

Callahan, remind me, where are you?

42 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:52:48am

re: #38 Cato the Elder

How does the AP like the idea that I will henceforth not read anything that they churn out?

Seriously.

If they continue with this stupidity, you will not be alone

43 VegasRick  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:53:25am

re: #4 Thanos

They want to be unlinked? I can accommodate that desire. There are other news sources.

And better.

44 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:53:45am

In a similar vein, Financial Times just launched a free iphone app.. That only lets you download 3 articles per month. Stupid.

45 jorline  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:53:54am

Absolute
Pricks

46 Lincolntf  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:54:00am

I do my best to avoid indulging in schadenfreude, but watching the death throes of the MSM always warms the cockles of my heart.
Keep up the good work, AP.

47 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:54:07am

re: #38 Cato the Elder

How does the AP like the idea that I will henceforth not read anything that they churn out?

Seriously.

I think this policy will be short lived. One, it's bad for business. Two, this will only spur more innovation as people devise ways to get around this.

48 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:54:12am

re: #35 Thanos

The Snapped Shot I think

Right you are! Thanks!

Snapped Shot Snaps Shut After AP Lawyer Letter

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

49 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:54:13am

re: #44 Occasional Reader

Heh. What a waste.

50 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:54:50am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

I can't imagine this is going to work out any better than when the NYT put everything behind a paid firewall. If nobody can link to their articles, nobody's going to read them.

Funny that. And the NYT are reporting this story.

Is it possible that in these tough times for traditional media there could be some cannibalism coming?

51 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:55:08am

So, for example, Drudge posts an article by the AP and I copy Drudge's post to LGF, I'll be tracked?

52 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:55:23am

re: #40 wrenchwench

You can see France from your house?

I can see France right now, that is if that darn hill wouldn't be in my way. Direct distance to the border 1 1/2 mile. Town is located at the river Saar and 'has got bridges' .
A little cross-word puzzle.

53 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:55:35am

re: #25 Desert Dog

Eat some snails and froggies for us, OR

Actually, my wife has gotten me to like snails. Of course, it's really the garlic butter that they're drenched in, that I like. You could cut up old tires and dip them in that stuff and I'd love it.

54 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:55:43am

Well, won't they be surprised when people really stop reading them altogether.

55 shiplord kirel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:56:57am

Hurray! This apparent suicide is heaven's gift to advocates of a genuinely free press as envisioned by the Founding Fathers.

AP, along with Reuters and a few now extinct dinosaur wire servies, created the myth that the media are, or even should be, unbiased. The idea of an unbiased press would have seemed quite alien to the Founding Fathers. Every rag proudly blared its agenda right from the masthead. Only with the wire services, feeding the same news to a number of different outlets, did the pretense of neutrality become important. Since this is impossible by its very nature, the wire services had to keep their biases subtle. Eventually, as the primary sources, they came to set the agenda themselves for lazy subscribers. The superficial pretense of neutrality is also effective cover for the contrarianism and nihilism that characterize the internal culture of the media-industrial complex: Their affinity for terrorists and criminals can be effectively disguised as "presenting the other side" and the "other point of view" without the messy consequences of admitting that this is, in fact, their own point of view.

56 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:57:07am

I wonder what happens when the Chicago Tribune posts an AP article. It will be on the Chicago Tribune site with their own coding. Is AP going to force all papers who post their articles to use AP's spyware thingy?

57 vxbush  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:58:13am

The problem is, we're in an open society of information on the Internet. They can try to put up walls, they can try to wrap their content in protective wrappers, but there are too many people out there who know more than they do about computers and software security. It isn't going to work.

And it will simply backlash, as everyone has admitted. They will lose money, like the New York Times tried to do earlier with their commentators and then discovered having *any* traffic was better than none.

58 Perplexed  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:58:30am

So how long does anyone think that it would take for someone to begin copying articles by using a screen snapshot program (i.e. Screenhunter)? Pretty simple to use, high resolution, and bypasses downloading anything.

AP is a drowning man reaching for straws.

59 FrogMarch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:58:31am

Free AP story - get it while it's hot.
sniff sniff... $Money$ Money$ Money $Money... ...$ MONEY!

And if the government requires everybody to get coverage — just what the overhaul legislation calls for — it could guarantee a steady stream of customers subsidized by taxpayers not only for insurers, but for all medical providers.

The money grubbers are lining up at the taxpayer trough.

60 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:58:56am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Hey Killgore. Do you miss your nemesis?

61 occasional reader  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:59:07am

Okay, posting c'est tres bizarre, keeps cutti

62 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:59:29am

re: #51 midwestgak

So, for example, Drudge posts an article by the AP and I copy Drudge's post to LGF, I'll be tracked?

I wondered about that, too.

63 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:59:37am

The media's death rattle.

Would this stand up in court?

64 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:00:00am

The following link is not an AP article (because they won't print such news)

Obama has lowest score at Rasmussen yet after news conference. -9

65 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:01:24am

My storied local paper is now a five-minute read. Instead of taking up the content challenge, they've downsized, streamlined, laid off, chopped, hacked, and outsourced. Only diehard old readers like my parents still subscribe. I get it on Kindle because it's less than five bucks a month there. Once in a blue moon it tells me something I didn't already know. It's a laughingstock. Full of typos, too, because editors are now superfluous, and who wants to work for a paper where all the decisions are made a thousand miles away in bloody Chicago?

Once it had a morning and an evening edition, and real reporters did real stories. Now the local weekly alternative trumps it on a regular basis with exposés and muckracking. The corrupt mayor and city council have nothing to fear from our daily anymore - there's no one to check on them.

I will not mourn when it finally dies.

66 vxbush  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:01:33am

re: #62 MandyManners

I wondered about that, too.

No, I think what would happen is that the software would note the link at LGF and at Drudge, not your copying the article over. I mean, they have referrer tracking now, so they know where people are clicking from.

67 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:01:37am

From henceforth I will refer to the AP as: Spyware Overlords of the MSM.

68 aaron  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:01:55am

AP? Never heard of it.

NEXT!

69 irongrampa  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:02:25am

Well, THERE'S a move absolutely guaranteed to improve the bottom line.
Strange they didn't implement that earlier.

70 FrogMarch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:02:58am

re: #59 FrogMarch

Free AP story - get it while it's hot.
sniff sniff... $Money$ Money$ Money $Money... ...$ MONEY!

The money grubbers are lining up at the taxpayer trough.

The industry groups have invested heavily to make sure their views get taken into account. The health care sector gave $167 million in campaign contributions to congressional candidates in the 2008 election cycle, according to the watchdog group OpenSecrets.org. Health care companies poured $484 million into lobbying efforts in 2008, and are on pace to exceed that this year.

I thought Nancy was going to drain the swamp?

71 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:03:56am

re: #52 callahan23

I can see France right now, that is if that darn hill wouldn't be in my way. Direct distance to the border 1 1/2 mile. Town is located at the river Saar and 'has got bridges' .
A little cross-word puzzle.

I love crossword puzzles, and maps! But I might have to work on this one later...

72 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:04:04am

Here's the new logo for the AP.

73 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:04:53am

re: #52 callahan23

Saarbrücken.

74 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:05:22am

The claim that they can embed software in an html link tag is false. They can't.

Scare tactic.

The best they can do us come up with a unique arrangement of text with some other text representing a check bit that would be embedded in the article. Then you could write a robot that would look for those signatures for copyright violations.

That is the only way you could catch "cut and paste" of text with no link.

As for photos, you can alter bits within a photo, slightly changing the color values for the few pixels involved, and do that alteration differently for each copy you distribute. Then you can find from which source someone stole it from. AQ used a similar technique with JPEGs to embed messages in pictures to the scum that carried out 9/11.

75 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:05:53am

re: #73 Cato the Elder

Saarbrücken.

I was almost there...

76 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:05:58am

re: #71 wrenchwench

I love crossword puzzles, and maps! But I might have to work on this one later...

Another hint it is the translation of bridges that makes the cities names second part. ;-)

77 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:06:21am
Each article — and, in the future, each picture and video — would go out with what The A.P. called a digital “wrapper,” data invisible to the ordinary consumer that is intended, among other things, to maximize its ranking in Internet searches. The software would also send signals back to The A.P., letting it track use of the article across the Web.

So, they want to be sure their content is found in a search, and then they want to look up your skirt if you proceed to look.

Way creepy.

78 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:06:24am
Each article — and, in the future, each picture and video — would go out with what The A.P. called a digital “wrapper,” data invisible to the ordinary consumer that is intended, among other things, to maximize its ranking in Internet searches. The software would also send signals back to The A.P., letting it track use of the article across the Web.

Can someone tell me exactly how this will work?

Say I link to this random AP article. (Heh heh heh -- now I'm eeevil.) The I copy and paste some of its text here:

Protesters across the world on Saturday called on Iran to end its clampdown on opposition activists, demanding the release of hundreds rounded up during demonstrations against the country's disputed election.

Groups including Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are backing a global day of action, with protests planned in more than 80 cities.

Now -- in what way is "spyware" gonna get me? When I copy the text, any embedded coding is stripped away, because I'm just getting the ACSII characters, not the HTML/CSS/etc behind the scenes. And in what way could they conceivably punish or spy on me for linking to them?

Maybe I'm naive, but help me out here someone.

79 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:06:51am
Each article — and, in the future, each picture and video — would go out with what The A.P. called a digital “wrapper,” data invisible to the ordinary consumer that is intended, among other things, to maximize its ranking in Internet searches. The software would also send signals back to The A.P., letting it track use of the article across the Web.


RONPAUL!

80 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:06:51am

re: #73 Cato the Elder

Saarbrücken.

That is were I am at.

81 macofromoc  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:07:19am

The AP probably should consider the internet a free fact-check of it's stories and photographs. err, maybe that's the prollem

82 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:07:20am

re: #78 zombie

Now -- in what way is "spyware" gonna get me? When I copy the text, any embedded coding is stripped away, because I'm just getting the ACSII characters, not the HTML/CSS/etc behind the scenes. And in what way could they conceivably punish or spy on me for linking to them?

Maybe I'm naive, but help me out here someone.

My thoughts are on #74.

83 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:07:27am

re: #71 wrenchwench

I love crossword puzzles, and maps! But I might have to work on this one later...

Hell, that's an easy one. Calllahn lives in Saarhasgotbridges.
Even I could get that one.
/ Sheesh

84 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:07:43am

re: #74 karmic_inquisitor

The claim that they can embed software in an html link tag is false. They can't.

Scare tactic.

The best they can do us come up with a unique arrangement of text with some other text representing a check bit that would be embedded in the article. Then you could write a robot that would look for those signatures for copyright violations.

That is the only way you could catch "cut and paste" of text with no link.

That's what I was thinking.

85 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:07:59am

re: #82 karmic_inquisitor

My thoughts are on #74.

I think you are correct.

86 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:08:14am

Good luck with this you idiots. A little SPI at the firewall, a little script to get rid of your cruft, and your digital wrapper is virtual toilet paper.

If you don't like the way the internet works, by all means stay off it. We won't miss you. In the meantime, we'll certainly exercise our RIGHT to fair use, which is not up to you to arbitrate. Besides which, you don't know what you're talking about:

Each article — and, in the future, each picture and video — would go out with what The A.P. called a digital “wrapper,” data invisible to the ordinary consumer that is intended, among other things, to maximize its ranking in Internet searches. The software would also send signals back to The A.P., letting it track use of the article across the Web.

Is it data or is it software? You're not allowed to push software onto my machine without my express consent. This means that at a minimum, you are going to have to pop up an interface requesting permission from EVERY machine's owner, and you are going to have to track EVERY machine's response in the affirmative, before you can send your spyware-laden article. What's more, the usual method of cookies on the individual machines is probably not going to cut it, as I can remove cookies at will, and then you cannot prove that you had my permission to push software onto my machine.
Microsoft got pegged for doing this, so did Sony. You're not that big a fish.
And at any rate, this is the sort of thing for which countermeasures will follow about five hours after you release each "innovative" obfuscation of your code.
All you can do is hurt your business. Feel free. This is what we mean when we say the old media doesn't get new media.
So long, AP. It's a shame things didn't work out between us.

87 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:08:58am

re: #83 LGoPs

Hell, that's an easy one. Calllahn lives in Saarhasgotbridges.
Even I could get that one.
/ Sheesh

LOL, you got that one exactly right.

88 baier  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:09:12am

Most AP articles are just a MadLib of anit-Israel, Anti-American leftest propaganda anyhow.

89 vxbush  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:09:29am

Zombie and karmic:

I wonder if they're thinking of using javascript in some way. My concern is how this is going to work across platforms. The only way to do that would be to do something that would work in a browser now: Javascript, Java, Adobe, something like that. Otherwise, it won't work.

I agree: part of it is bluff, but they must have something in mind; they have spent some time on it already to be prepared to come out and make a news release of this.

90 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:10:00am

re: #78 zombie

The may have some automated bot scouring the earth to match exact phrases in addition to the initial tracking they'll use, which is probably some kind of embedded javascript, like Google stat tracking. Their embedded scripts won't transfer over if you copy-and-paste via your browser, but their infringement bot could get you by phrase searching if you let them access your server.

Just guesses.

91 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:10:11am

re: #88 baier

Most AP articles are just a MadLib of anit-Israel, Anti-American leftest propaganda anyhow.

Ah, now I know where the German media get their information from.

92 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:10:19am

re: #80 callahan23

That is were I am at.

Well, have a Bruch No. 1 Pils (local brew) for me, then!

93 Griffon  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:10:20am

I guess I'm not surprised they are trying to cash in on people linking to their articles, but the spyware BS is over the top. We are all sick of fighting spyware and adware, but that's what makes the Internet run cheaply unless we are willing to pay more for ad-free service. Spyware ought to just plain be illegal - reserved for the government with search warrants!

94 avanti  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:10:55am

The story I found said they were going to build a registry of linkers, not stop linking. I expect it's to prevent other web sites using their work to generate profit and may not bloggers as much as Drudge for example.

AP.

95 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:11:08am

re: #85 zombie

I think you are correct.

One other thing - if you use a link, then once someone clicks it, there are breadcrumbs they can follow back to your site. Even if you used tinyurl (but it takes some work that most aren't willing to do).

But a naked cut and paste with no link requires them to leverage robots. And as Charles has aptly demonstrated, they can be misdirected.

96 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:11:09am

re: #52 callahan23

I can see France right now, that is if that darn hill wouldn't be in my way. Direct distance to the border 1 1/2 mile. Town is located at the river Saar and 'has got bridges' .
A little cross-word puzzle.

Saarbrucken?

97 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:11:10am

re: #63 ladycatnip

The media's death rattle.

Would this stand up in court?

IANAL, but Nope.

98 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:11:10am

Reuters was here 9 times yesterday.

Well, good news Reuters! Not only can you come visit LGF, but LGF will likely visit you more often now too.

99 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:11:38am

re: #74 karmic_inquisitor

The claim that they can embed software in an html link tag is false. They can't.

Scare tactic.

The best they can do us come up with a unique arrangement of text with some other text representing a check bit that would be embedded in the article. Then you could write a robot that would look for those signatures for copyright violations.

That is the only way you could catch "cut and paste" of text with no link.

As for photos, you can alter bits within a photo, slightly changing the color values for the few pixels involved, and do that alteration differently for each copy you distribute. Then you can find from which source someone stole it from. AQ used a similar technique with JPEGs to embed messages in pictures to the scum that carried out 9/11.

I suspect the "digital wrapper" will be embedded in their articles at sites that have content deals with the AP, and it will keep track of referrals to the article -- letting them track back and see who's linking to it.

100 1SG(ret)  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:12:51am

re: #86 haakondahl

Yeah, What he said. I don't understand any of it, but there take that!

101 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:13:16am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Well, have a Bruch No. 1 Pils (local brew) for me, then!

Will do. Good choice of beer, though I like other brews better. Karlsberg or Bitburger nice and bitter, need to be ice-cold though.

102 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:13:16am

re: #96 Pianobuff

Saarbrucken?

Nope. Saarbrücken.

It ain't the same without the umlaut.

103 DaveinMD  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:13:29am

This is the kind of thing I expect to see when the MBA's run the business with no input from people who do the actual work. There are too many examples to list, I'm sure most of us have stories of management with no clue about daily operations. Just because you can run a convenience store, doesn't mean you can run a factory. Or a car company. Or a nation. Some bean counter decided this was a way to either lose less money or make more money, but said bean counter knows nothing about running a news organization, and the ones in charge know nothing about news, either. Good luck to them, I hope this accelerates their demise.

104 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:14:09am

re: #89 vxbush


I agree: part of it is bluff, but they must have something in mind; they have spent some time on it already to be prepared to come out and make a news release of this.

At least they are spending their time on something./

105 macofromoc  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:14:16am

How many AP stories have been ripped from the bigger blogs like LGF, Kos, Huffington, etc?? Charles better be on the lookout for those big AP checks that I'm sure are in the mail.

106 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:14:28am

re: #80 callahan23

Cool. I used to take the train down there for a change of pace once in a while when I was young and in the Army.
Have you ever gone up the road a ways to Idar-Oberstein? Nice town with cool cliffs, etc. Tons of diamond/gem merchants in town, too.

107 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:14:30am

re: #90 theheat

The may have some automated bot scouring the earth to match exact phrases in addition to the initial tracking they'll use, which is probably some kind of embedded javascript, like Google stat tracking. Their embedded scripts won't transfer over if you copy-and-paste via your browser, but their infringement bot could get you by phrase searching if you let them access your server.

Just guesses.

Remember how popular the RIAA became after they statrting prosecuting and threatening to jail grandmothers for downloading a single song off of Kazaa or other file-sharing networks? It was (and remains) a public relations disaster.

Does AP plan to go that route? Drag little John the Random Blogger into court for linking to one of their crappy articles? Oh yeah, that'll be smart.

108 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #99 Charles

tinyurl gonna get cock-blocked!

109 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:15:16am

re: #102 Cato the Elder

Do you also hail from these Germanic lands, Cato? :>

110 Dad O' Blondes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:15:18am

I can't fault the AP for attempting to defend their intellectual property and business process. But this approach sure doesn't sound like it's going to work.

Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, recently talked about the ongoing destruction of the news and reporting business wrought by the internet, and ironically, Google, too. "Somebody" really does have to pay for reporters, communication links, news distribution, etc.

You can't make money if you give news away for free on the web, and you can't make money if other people post your news on the web without paying for it.

It's a tough spot. And it's not unique to AP, every news organization has the same problem.

.

111 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:16:09am

re: #74 karmic_inquisitor

The claim that they can embed software in an html link tag is false. They can't.

Scare tactic.

The best they can do us come up with a unique arrangement of text with some other text representing a check bit that would be embedded in the article. Then you could write a robot that would look for those signatures for copyright violations.

That is the only way you could catch "cut and paste" of text with no link.

As for photos, you can alter bits within a photo, slightly changing the color values for the few pixels involved, and do that alteration differently for each copy you distribute. Then you can find from which source someone stole it from. AQ used a similar technique with JPEGs to embed messages in pictures to the scum that carried out 9/11.

The problem with these is that they would need to crawl the web Google-style in order to find these, and do a lot more bitwise analysis than Google does now. It would be easy to find their spiders and lock them out--they're not going to commit to a full-time staff who do nothing but conde innovative spiders and launch them from forever shifting new sites. Finally, you can defeat this by simply adding some of your own salt to anything from the AP. It would be simpler to use than Bug-Me-Not; a little plug-in for the open-source browser of your choice (sorry IE users, M$ will line up with AP on this DRM scheme).

112 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:16:31am

re: #89 vxbush

Zombie and karmic:

I wonder if they're thinking of using javascript in some way. My concern is how this is going to work across platforms. The only way to do that would be to do something that would work in a browser now: Javascript, Java, Adobe, something like that. Otherwise, it won't work.

I agree: part of it is bluff, but they must have something in mind; they have spent some time on it already to be prepared to come out and make a news release of this.

For that to fly the reader would have to interact at some point with a site they own.

Now they could come up with a persistent script that, when you ran across one of their cooperating sites, could scan your cache and see what you have read and look for pirated content. It would be a bit of a hack but I suppose it could be pulled off. But building a blocker for such a script would be easy to do.

Just the same, they can't "send out" a script like a worm - you have to load a page somewhere that has their script on it for the thing to become active on your computer.

Another countermeasure would be for someone to find and publish all of the ip addresses of the AP servers that will collect these data from scripts/robots. Then people can put blocks in their firewalls for them. Not a small task, but if you are determined to keep your privacy ...

113 1SG(ret)  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:16:37am

re: #106 lincolntf

I have. Spent 9 years in Gellenhausen. 3AD!

114 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:16:56am

re: #106 lincolntf

Really nice landscape 'n all, picturesque should be the correct term to describe Idar-Oberstein. Went there just last summer.

115 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:17:00am

re: #99 Charles

I suspect the "digital wrapper" will be embedded in their articles at sites that have content deals with the AP, and it will keep track of referrals to the article -- letting them track back and see who's linking to it.

So what kind of trouble would they try to make for you, say, if you linked to and quoted from an article? Are they going to hire an additional army of (lol!) "esquires" to churn out threatening letters? Sue? What are the damages under fair use? A link to an article increases traffic to that article, and a quote or two would be covered under existing law.

So what are they trying to prove? That desperation leads to stupid actions?

"When in danger
Or in doubt
Run in circles
Scream and shout"

--Heinlein, I believe

116 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:18:22am

re: #99 Charles

I suspect the "digital wrapper" will be embedded in their articles at sites that have content deals with the AP, and it will keep track of referrals to the article -- letting them track back and see who's linking to it.

That would work - instead of them having to access the weblogs of the host machine.

But the naked pasting of the raw text would not be traceable except via robots scouting them out, methinks.

117 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:18:33am

AP= alienated pricks.

Hello Lizards.

118 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:21:24am

AP = Aging Pornographers

119 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #117 DEZes

Hi DEZ. How are you today?

120 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:21:58am

re: #109 mrbaracuda

Do you also hail from these Germanic lands, Cato? :>

No, but I spent ten years there one decade. ;^)

And my friend Tacitus wrote the original ethnographic study of Germania.

121 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:22:08am

I dunno, I understand their position. As long as the fee is modest it might be workable, and even enhance the blogs et al that subscribe. No worse than ASCAP and RIAA and all that. They're not particularly after the likes of LGF, it's Google and other aggregators they're seriously pissed at.

122 KenJen  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:22:11am

re: #117 DEZes

AP= alienated pricks.

Hello Lizards.

Hi DEZ! Where have you been?

123 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:22:41am

re: #119 midwestgak

Hi DEZ. How are you today?

I am well, thanks for asking.
And yourself?

124 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:22:56am

re: #102 Cato the Elder

Nope. Saarbrücken.

It ain't the same without the umlaut.

I like ham and cheese umlauts...

125 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:23:02am

re: #118 haakondahl

AP = Aging Pornographers

LOL

126 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:23:37am

re: #122 KenJen

Hi DEZ! Where have you been?

Been working way too much.

127 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:23:45am

re: #117 DEZes

AP= alienated pricks.

Hello Lizards.

AP = Always Propaganda

128 UncleRancher  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:24:16am

Bye now AP, we hardly knew ye.

129 KenJen  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:24:35am

re: #126 DEZes

Been working way too much.

Better than the alternative I guess.

130 crosspatch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:24:52am

Link to UPI stories instead.

131 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:25:12am

re: #123 DEZes

I am well, thanks for asking.
And yourself?

Good. Enjoying the dry, cool breeze coming in my open windows.

It's good to see you.

132 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:25:22am

re: #130 crosspatch

Link to UPI stories instead.

Moonies own UPI now.

133 LGoPs  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:25:38am

re: #113 1SG(ret)

I have. Spent 9 years in Gellenhausen. 3AD!

I was in Aschaffenburg, 3ID
:)

134 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:26:30am

re: #132 MandyManners

Moonies vs. Moonbats: The Battle of The Wires

135 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:26:42am

re: #132 MandyManners

Moonies own UPI now.

Looks like meat's Reuters is back on the menu, boys!

136 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:27:01am

BTW - Financial Times used to display their articles via a script controlled object such that you could not select, cut and paste the content.

The way around it was to use "view source" on your browser and cut and paste from the text in there. AP may be contemplating such a widget as well so that cut and paste is made more difficult.

137 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:27:57am

re: #131 midwestgak

Good. Enjoying the dry, cool breeze coming in my open windows.

It's good to see you.

I watched a really strange movie last night, Coraline.
Of course strange was expected. ;)

Its good to see all the Lizards. :)

138 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:27:57am

re: #135 Sharmuta

Looks like meat's Reuters is back on the menu, boys!

Isn't Reuters a whore for Hamas?

139 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:28:16am

I mean, a link in a blog lead might cost a dime.

A link in a user comment might cost the blog a penny, or maybe a tenth.

A short quote is fair use, and free.

A complete repost of text might go for a penny a word, or more, depending on the site's ratings.

AP could rate a site for monthly totals, and any total over $100 or so might be actively pursued.

Something like that.

And yes, then every major (and minor) news agency would try to do the same, until the whole thing would be subsumed under a newsy version of RIAA.

140 dwells38  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:28:18am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Well they're saying you can do it but you gotta pay a fee. The Chicago Tribune no doubt has a budget for that. Joe Blogger probably not.

141 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:28:37am

AP doesn't want to get caught with their shorts around their ankles.

Innerwebz mean there are no memory holz.

When they can be linked, archived and copied there is a record they don't control.

They are more concerned with the "agenda" than the news, rather than report and let the chips fall where they may they want to be able to CYA when their caught with their agenda showing.

142 crosspatch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:28:48am

No, the "moonies" don't own UPI any more than "moonies" own the Washington Times. That is crap put out by the left to prevent people from wanting to use it.

143 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:28:53am

re: #116 karmic_inquisitor

That would work - instead of them having to access the weblogs of the host machine.

But the naked pasting of the raw text would not be traceable except via robots scouting them out, methinks.

The AP already uses bots. I've found several going through LGF from time to time, and I block them when I find them.

144 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #113 1SG(ret)

3 years at Baumholder/Idar. Old Ironsides.

145 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:09am

re: #105 macofromoc

How many AP stories have been ripped from the bigger blogs like LGF, Kos, Huffington, etc?? Charles better be on the lookout for those big AP checks that I'm sure are in the mail.

Precisely. Next time I see a "meme" that I broke appearing in an AP article (which has happened in the past), I'm going to send them a "cease and desist" notice for stealing my content.

146 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:28am

re: #108 mrbaracuda

tinyurl gonna get cock-blocked!

I haven't heard this phrase since "The Gaytriot"!

147 FightingBack  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:51am

Is it 2003 already? The same AP that reported this story about GWB this AM?
Bush Mulled Idea in 2003
The story conveniently forgets Clinton/Reno at Waco.
They pulled this out to help Obama with the Police incident?

And we need to read them, why?

148 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:53am

re: #126 DEZes

Been working way too much.

Here have a beer my friend, relax and reload your Lizard-batteries.

149 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:29:56am

re: #107 zombie

If they were even a tiny big concerned with their public image, they wouldn't be doing this in the first place. They want to be the biggest go-to news source in the pond, and they don't care who they step on. If you aren't giving them money, they don't care whether you - little blogger peep - lives or dies.

150 avanti  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:00am

Did you guys read the story about the discussion of using troops in the USA to arrest terrorist suspects ? I'd like a conservatives take on on that test of the constitution.

troops.

151 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:00am
152 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:08am

re: #132 MandyManners

Moonies own UPI now.

The moonies?

153 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:21am

Might actually be an interesting sideline for Google themselves, evaluating sites' use of registered materials. Except they are by far the biggest violator themselves, but hey, they might break even on the deal!

154 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:22am

re: #138 MandyManners

Isn't Reuters a whore for Hamas?

I don't think we'll ever find a perfect news source, but only one is planning on spying on us.

155 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:30:42am

re: #148 callahan23

Here have a beer my friend, relax and reload your Lizard-batteries.

I had a few last night. ;)

(Callahan)

156 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:31:22am

I do respect IP rights, while I loathe DRM in most of its incarnations.
If what they are talking about is limited to sites which use complete articles or abusively long excerpts, fine. But they should attack those as abuses of Fair Use, not attack Fair Use itself.
They will lose if they take on Fair Use--it has a longer and more honorable history than they do, and the Court has seen fit to uphold Fair Use time and time again.

157 Athos  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:31:27am

re: #121 itellu3times

I dunno, I understand their position. As long as the fee is modest it might be workable, and even enhance the blogs et al that subscribe. No worse than ASCAP and RIAA and all that. They're not particularly after the likes of LGF, it's Google and other aggregators they're seriously pissed at.

While there is a case to be made around intellectual / artist property rights when it comes to movies, books, art, music and similar things - I am less than convinced that a similar argument can be made around the factual reporting of events.

Charles has this right, it's Maginot Line thinking and a knee-jerk reaction in the wrong direction as to why they are losing influence, importance, and money. Their actions towards information and the internet will only increase their problems - just as the NYT found when they tried to put most of their info behind a subscriber / fee wall and others. There is little value add - and unless ALL of the other news services follow suit (collusion anyone?) they will be alone in their redoubt.

This is not how they fix their broken business model and reinvent themselves as a provider of value. Of course, in order to provide value, they also need to return to their roots of presenting unbiased and accurate reports of events.

158 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:31:30am

re: #137 DEZes

I watched a really strange movie last night, Coraline.
Of course strange was expected. ;)

Its good to see all the Lizards. :)

An animated movie. Just Googled it. Has a rather dark feel to it.

159 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:31:44am

re: #146 Macker

LoL! Now tell us, how long did you wait to have the chance to link to that?

160 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:01am

re: #142 crosspatch

No, the "moonies" don't own UPI any more than "moonies" own the Washington Times. That is crap put out by the left to prevent people from wanting to use it.

That's not true. UPI is owned by Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church: United Press International.

In 2000, UPI was purchased by News World Communications, a media company owned by Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.

And the Washington Times was founded by them: The Washington Times.

The Washington Times is a daily broadsheet newspaper published in Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States. It was founded in 1982 by Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon.

161 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:04am

re: #144 lincolntf

3 years at Baumholder/Idar. Old Ironsides.

A friggin' cold place in winter. Don't remember the winter in the 80's but it was minus 25°C.

162 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:19am

Actually, a plaintext link might even be fair use and free, only a hyperlinked version ... but then browsers will develop a new feature (if they haven't already!) automagically hyperlinking anything that even looks like a valid URL.

163 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:38am

re: #142 crosspatch

No, the "moonies" don't own UPI any more than "moonies" own the Washington Times. That is crap put out by the left to prevent people from wanting to use it.

You're wrong.

164 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:46am

re: #158 midwestgak

An animated movie. Just Googled it. Has a rather dark feel to it.

Very dark indeed, but enjoyable.

165 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #161 callahan23

Haven't had such a winter for a while methinks.

166 1SG(ret)  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:33:02am

re: #144 lincolntf

I was there for only 2 years (short tour) 81-83. Loved K-Town, Baumholder not so much. Hated that rock climb with 60A3

167 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:33:05am

re: #142 crosspatch

No, the "moonies" don't own UPI any more than "moonies" own the Washington Times. That is crap put out by the left to prevent people from wanting to use it.

Helen Thomas quit UPI when the moonies bought it.

168 avanti  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #147 FightingBack

Is it 2003 already? The same AP that reported this story about GWB this AM?
Bush Mulled Idea in 2003
The story conveniently forgets Clinton/Reno at Waco.
They pulled this out to help Obama with the Police incident?

And we need to read them, why?

I just posted the same story, but was unaware US troops were used at Waco. Are you sure they were ?

169 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:33:47am

re: #159 mrbaracuda

LoL! Now tell us, how long did you wait to have the chance to link to that?

About 3 years or so. Last time I posted that link, I really pissed off a whole bunch of el cubos on another board (which I no longer go to).
No, not Kos' Kidz either.

170 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:33:51am

re: #152 jcm

The moonies?

You're terrible.

171 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:34:06am

re: #161 callahan23

Absolutely right. A terrible place to be stationed. I was lucky enough that my Battery moved down the road to a little kaserne in Idar-Oberstein after I'd been at "The Rock" for about a year. Made all the difference.

172 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:34:19am

re: #143 Charles

The AP already uses bots. I've found several going through LGF from time to time, and I block them when I find them.

Just curious - did they obey robots.txt?

173 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:34:40am

re: #154 Sharmuta

I don't think we'll ever find a perfect news source, but only one is planning on spying on us.

That we know about.

174 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:34:49am

re: #169 Macker

Was it the "AIDS-BREATH"? LoL.

175 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:35:00am

re: #170 MandyManners

You're terrible.

I laughed.
*betting I aint alone*

176 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:35:07am

re: #120 Cato the Elder

I'm going to have to re-read "Germania", I vaguely remember something about the women accompanying men in battle, real Valkyries, I guess.
The Agricola and Germania, downloadable e-book, PDF.

And Varus Battlefield found

177 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:35:21am

re: #167 MandyManners

Helen Thomas quit UPI when the moonies bought it.


Do moonies still witness to accost people in parking lots? Trying to sell them candy? I haven't seen one in years.

178 crosspatch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:35:37am

re: #152 jcm

The same group owns UPI that owns the Washington Times. That is News World Communications whose members ARE members of the Unification Church headed by Moon but they don't make editorial decisions or control the content. It is pretty much an investment.

They DO allow a conservative point of view to be stated. I like UPI and The Washington Times. But the news outlets aren't controlled by "the moonies" as far as their content goes. UPI has stuff from both left and right points of view.

179 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:35:58am

re: #175 DEZes

I laughed.
*betting I aint alone*

You're not.

180 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:36:23am

re: #173 MandyManners

Google spies on us all the time, whether you use it for a search or not. Many blogs and web sites use Google's analytics tools, and they're up in your business the second you hit a site's home page.

181 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:36:30am

re: #172 karmic_inquisitor

Just curious - did they obey robots.txt?

I don't know -- didn't check that.

182 mrbaracuda  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:36:39am

re: #176 JHW

Varus Battlefield

Not too far away from there actually! Living in the valley in the mountain range of the Teuto. :)

183 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:36:40am

re: #177 BignJames

Do moonies still witness to accost people in parking lots? Trying to sell them candy? I haven't seen one in years.

Did they get kicked out of airports after 9-11?

184 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:36:58am

re: #180 theheat

Google spies on us all the time, whether you use it for a search or not. Many blogs and web sites use Google's analytics tools, and they're up in your business the second you hit a site's home page.

And,...?

185 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:37:19am

re: #147 FightingBack

Is it 2003 already? The same AP that reported this story about GWB this AM?
Bush Mulled Idea in 2003
The story conveniently forgets Clinton/Reno at Waco.
They pulled this out to help Obama with the Police incident?

And we need to read them, why?

What I find interesting (and is by no means emphasised by anyone in the media) is that Bush said "no" to the idea.

In fact, any hair brained scheme presented to the President that earns a "no" is still a scheme "considered" by the President. Media word games.

186 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:37:19am

re: #179 MandyManners

You're not.

(Mandy)
Its a good day for a slow cooked pot roast me thinks.

187 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:37:40am

re: #150 avanti

Did you guys read the story about the discussion of using troops in the USA to arrest terrorist suspects ? I'd like a conservatives take on on that test of the constitution.

troops.

Note the option was not used.

Posse Comitatus is a huge hurdle.

But on the other hand, if the terrorist is a foreigner, in the country illegal, and / or a illegal combatant, that is the purpose of the military, it could be considered an invasion of sorts.

If you believe the GWOT should and is an LE problem then no, however if it more properly a combat operation protecting the US, then Posse Comitatus isn't applicable.

If they had very specific information on a terror cell in the US, and the most appropriate hammer was a military unit, it could be justified as national defense.

General use of the military in operations in the US could not be justified.

188 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:37:40am

re: #175 DEZes

I laughed.
*betting I aint alone*

She didn't thought it too offensive, she dinged it up. ;-)

189 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #183 MandyManners

Did they get kicked out of airports after 9-11?

Don't know...haven't been in an airport since...1975.

190 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:38:23am

re: #184 MandyManners

It's another tracking tool to show where you go, what you do, where you're from, what ads to serve you, etc.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being someone's demographic.

191 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:38:32am

re: #188 callahan23

She didn't thought it too offensive, she dinged it up. ;-)

I was tugging her chain. ;)

192 crosspatch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:38:37am

I can't understand their position on not even allowing LINKS to their content. That drives eyeballs TO their content. They should WANT you to link to it. But in the end it doesn't matter, I suppose. They are just cutting off their nose to spite their face.

193 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:38:54am

re: #170 MandyManners

You're terrible.

Thank you for the compliment! ;-)

194 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:39:50am

re: #182 mrbaracuda

Spiegel had an article a couple months ago about another Roman battlefield found in Germany. Some of the relics were in amazing condition. A Roman helmet was found at the Varus site, along with an item inscribed with the Roman soldier's name.

195 lobo91  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:40:43am

re: #168 avanti

I just posted the same story, but was unaware US troops were used at Waco. Are you sure they were ?

Yes, they were:

As part of the planning for the Waco raid, BATF went to the Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6), which covers Texas, and asked for training, medical, communications, and other support. The JTF-6 staff explained that they could only be involved if the case were a drug case.[24] If the case were not a drug case, BATF could obtain assistance from other parts of the military, but would have to pay for it.(p.625)

Immediately thereafter, BATF asserted that the Waco case was a drug investigation; Branch Davidian prophet David Koresh was supposedly running a methamphetamine laboratory.[25] The military should have known that the drug claim was merely a guise; BATF came up with the allegation only after being told of the benefits of such an allegation. In addition, the military prepared a memorandum for BATF on methamphetamine labs, and the precautions essential for dealing with such a lab.[26] However, when the paper was presented to BATF agents, they openly ignored the information in front of the soldiers who prepared it.[27] Further, agents from the civilian Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) who were assisting BATF also expressed no concerns about how BATF was addressing the risks of a meth lab in its operational planning, which similarly should have indicated to the military that the allegation was a mere pretext.[28]

With this knowledge, JTF-6 signed onto the mission of "training a National Level Response Team [BATF strike-force] for Counter Drug operations," in "Support of BATF Takedown of Meth Lab."[29] According to documents received from the U.S. Special Operations Command under Freedom of Information Act requests, the Joint Training operation (JT002-93) was approved due to a request from BATF dated February 2, 1993, requesting U.S. and Texas National Guard assistance in serving a federal search warrant "to a dangerous extremist organization believed to be producing methamphetamine."[30] The Army assistance at Waco would supposedly be "in direct support of interdiction activities along the southwest border."[31] (Notwithstanding the fact that Waco is approximately 300 miles from the southwest border. Moreover, the original claim was that Koresh was manufacturing methamphetamine, not that he was importing it from Mexico.)(p.626)

196 FightingBack  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41:15am

re: #168 avanti

About Waco

197 crosspatch  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41:23am

re: #180 theheat

And if you have the Google toolbar with "Page Rank" enabled, Google knows every single URL you browse to. AND if you have a gmail account, the add your gmail cookie (or used to, not sure if they still do) so the browsing is personally identifiable. They do that so they can show you ads when looking at your gmail that reflect your browsing history. If you have been shopping for cars on the web, you might see car ads when viewing your gmail.

If you have Page Rank enabled, they are collecting stats on every single URL you visit.

198 vxbush  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41:39am

re: #194 JHW

Spiegel had an article a couple months ago about another Roman battlefield found in Germany. Some of the relics were in amazing condition. A Roman helmet was found at the Varus site, along with an item inscribed with the Roman soldier's name.

And in today's news, they found some amazing Roman ships in the Mediterranean.

199 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #147 FightingBack

Is it 2003 already? The same AP that reported this story about GWB this AM?
Bush Mulled Idea in 2003
The story conveniently forgets Clinton/Reno at Waco.
They pulled this out to help Obama with the Police incident?

And we need to read them, why?


Yeah, the timing is convenient. Bush turned it down, but the spin is that he considered it.
Make tiis story abot Obama & the spin would be that our wise President courageously overruled his advisors.

Yeah the timing is rell convrenient isn't it.
Bush tirnrd down the idea, but the spin is thayt he considered it.
Make this a story about Obama & the spin would be that our

200 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41:48am

re: #186 DEZes

(Mandy)
Its a good day for a slow cooked pot roast me thinks.

I'm sick of the kitchen.

201 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:42:05am

re: #189 BignJames

Don't know...haven't been in an airport since...1975.

'93 for me.

202 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:42:37am

re: #190 theheat

It's another tracking tool to show where you go, what you do, where you're from, what ads to serve you, etc.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being someone's demographic.

Some things I just let roll off my back.

203 FightingBack  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:42:53am

re: #185 karmic_inquisitor

That's why I titled my link "Bush Mulled Idea"
Mulling? I thought he could barely think///

204 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #202 MandyManners

Hat trick.

205 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #198 vxbush

Thanks!

206 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:43:20am

re: #193 jcm

Thank you for the compliment! ;-)

The perfect addition would be a set of red lip prints.

207 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:43:49am

re: #150 avanti

Did you guys read the story about the discussion of using troops in the USA to arrest terrorist suspects ? I'd like a conservatives take on on that test of the constitution.

troops.

I was wondering if it wasn't something to do with "enemy combatants", but I'm very glad President Bush rejected it. I don't think it's a bad thing it was debated, per se. I'd have to know the actual arguments involved, how the conversation went. Was it a discussion on hypotheticals and Constitutional justifications of/for them? I can't get worked up about that.

208 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #206 MandyManners

The perfect addition would be a set of red lip prints.

Your bad. ;)

209 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:44:21am

re: #197 crosspatch

All I want to do on the web is have Amazon remember what crap I've heaped on my wish list. My needs are very simple. Google and other search tools have been Big Brothering us for years, and there doesn't appear to be any end in sight.

210 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:44:47am

re: #199 opnion

Yeah, the timing is convenient. Bush turned it down, but the spin is that he considered it.
Make tiis story abot Obama & the spin would be that our wise President courageously overruled his advisors.

Yeah the timing is rell convrenient isn't it.
Bush tirnrd down the idea, but the spin is thayt he considered it.
Make this a story about Obama & the spin would be that our

Opnion - you feelin' OK today?

211 jones  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:44:53am

Someday we will be reading about this in a "How not to" text book.


By we, I mean other people, mostly in the future.

212 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:44:54am

re: #195 lobo91

Lots of "mistakes" were made at WACO, those mistakes got officers killed and whole lot of other folks.

The Reno Justice Dept. had problems, WACO, Elian...

213 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:46:05am

re: #206 MandyManners

The perfect addition would be a set of red lip prints.

Trying to get me in trouble with wife now...

Who's terrible? ;-)

214 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:46:25am

re: #203 FightingBack

That's why I titled my link "Bush Mulled Idea"
Mulling? I thought he could barely think///

LOL.

Wasn't he a trained chimp in the hands of his handler, the Evil Dick Cheney?

He must have been horse whipped by Cheney when he said no. Bad chimpymchalliburton!

215 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #150 avanti

Did you guys read the story about the discussion of using troops in the USA to arrest terrorist suspects ? I'd like a conservatives take on on that test of the constitution.

troops.

Complicated, and depends upon the underlying assumptions. Remember that this is an event which was considered and did NOT occur.
We seem now to be prosecuting the Overseas Contingency Operation as on article, and the rest is all law enforcement, which I thought had been thoroughly discredited on morning in New York City.
Oh, well, there's always next time to get serious.
If domestic terrorism with international (overtones, connections, communications, confluence of effort) is to be a law enforcement matter, then of course PC forbids the employment of troops. If it is insteead a matter of war, then it becomes possible but problematic. And I don't think it gets any less problematic until the bad guys are on the move, weapons up. At which point it becomes pretty simple, if taken on a wartime footing.
It is the sensitive dependence upon the underlying assumptions which caused us to shift from a criminal to a military model for dealing with terrorism, especially after seeing clearly the effects of the Gorelick wall, even if the report she co-authored didn't exactly reflect it.

216 avanti  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:47:50am

re: #187 jcm

Note the option was not used.

Posse Comitatus is a huge hurdle.

But on the other hand, if the terrorist is a foreigner, in the country illegal, and / or a illegal combatant, that is the purpose of the military, it could be considered an invasion of sorts.

If you believe the GWOT should and is an LE problem then no, however if it more properly a combat operation protecting the US, then Posse Comitatus isn't applicable.

If they had very specific information on a terror cell in the US, and the most appropriate hammer was a military unit, it could be justified as national defense.

General use of the military in operations in the US could not be justified.

I am in agreement with you, if I'm reading you right. Cheney's idea to use them for arresting a few terrorists no, but a terrorist situation that might only be dealt with with military yes. i.e., an entire community is taken over by a large, well armed terrorist cell might call for the military.

217 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:48:58am

re: #110 Dad O' Blondes

We should pay for spin and propaganda? That seems counter-intuitive. Ads pay for "news", so they could keep the ads with the stories. Or tweak them a bit;

Obama, (who resides in the same White House that recieved 400 gallons of Premium Coat DuPont Exterior Shield donated by Coca-cola), announced the unveiling*(* for more on unveiling, please go to [Link: www.strippersmall.com)...] of a new communications administration, which will oversee all


or subliminals

Groups including Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are backing a global day to show the future, of protests planned in more than 80 cities over f IV e days.

218 lobo91  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:49:59am

re: #212 jcm

Lots of "mistakes" were made at WACO, those mistakes got officers killed and whole lot of other folks.

The Reno Justice Dept. had problems, WACO, Elian...

We used the WACO debacle as a case study in one of my classes when I was working on my MPA.

The Challenger disaster was another.

219 rightymouse  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:50:11am

re: #200 MandyManners

I'm sick of the kitchen.

Not me.

Am off to the store to get fixin's for a beef and lentil soup (with cilantro and cumin) and a batch of Indian samosas.

Later!

220 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:50:58am

re: #207 Sharmuta

I was wondering if it wasn't something to do with "enemy combatants", but I'm very glad President Bush rejected it. I don't think it's a bad thing it was debated, per se. I'd have to know the actual arguments involved, how the conversation went. Was it a discussion on hypotheticals and Constitutional justifications of/for them? I can't get worked up about that.

It's an absolute non-story.

In any governmental setting, a staff meeting will include lots of ideas being floated, discussed, argued about, and the meeting will end with MOST of them being dismissed.

It's how things go.

221 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:51:01am

Are folks on the left using the word "terrorist" these days? Is it now safe to do that? I remember when Bush was in charge "terror" was mocked as "Terra".

I guess now that Obama is in charge and is escalating Afghanistan, "terrorism" is back!

222 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #219 rightymouse

Not me.

Am off to the store to get fixin's for a beef and lentil soup (with cilantro and cumin) and a batch of Indian samosas.

Later!

Take good care.

223 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:51:33am

re: #210 reine.de.tout

Opnion - you feelin' OK today?

I didn't think that it posted the first time so I did it again. I do have a 12 week old puppy distracting me. Sorry

224 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:52:47am

Tally of RCP top stories by topic today:

Obama/Gates/Crowley: 6
Healthcare: 3
General Economy: 2
Sarah Palin: 2

Global Warming, California Budget, Liberalism: 1

225 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:53:01am

re: #192 crosspatch

I can't understand their position on not even allowing LINKS to their content. That drives eyeballs TO their content. They should WANT you to link to it. But in the end it doesn't matter, I suppose. They are just cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Even more stupid--they are cutting off their noses to spite *our* faces.

226 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:53:32am

re: #212 jcm

Lots of "mistakes" were made at WACO, those mistakes got officers killed and whole lot of other folks.

The Reno Justice Dept. had problems, WACO, Elian...

Ruby Ridge was another fiasco.
As far as Koresh in Waco, they knew that he often went into town to a coffee shop. They could have grabbed him any time.

227 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:53:37am

re: #223 opnion

I didn't think that it posted the first time so I did it again. I do have a 12 week old puppy distracting me. Sorry

I was just tryin' to kid with you a bit.

228 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:54:15am

re: #215 haakondahl

I think it's natural after 9/11 some issues would come up where the powers that be sit and discuss potential actions and how to carry them out. This is quite possibly a case where the suspects involved could be considered enemy combatants. For the administration to debate about how to handle these issues isn't in and of itself problematic for me.

229 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:54:51am

re: #216 avanti

I am in agreement with you, if I'm reading you right. Cheney's idea to use them for arresting a few terrorists no, but a terrorist situation that might only be dealt with with military yes. i.e., an entire community is taken over by a large, well armed terrorist cell might call for the military.

That's about the size of it.

230 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:56:01am

The idea that we haven't used the military for a domestic law enforcement action in the United States is a myth.

For example, FDR used federal troops to crush a race riot/industrial strike in Detroit .

6,000 of them.

[Link: www.blackpast.org...]

231 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:56:51am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

I was just tryin' to kid with you a bit.

That's fine, I thought the same thing when I saw it.
I did forget how much energy a puppy has. This little guy has one gear.
Now the first year with our last dog is coming back to me.

232 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:56:55am

Bush did make the right decision. For one thing, the Lackawanna Six were not an imminent threat:

Enemy Within? Not Quite

At the time of their arrest in September 2002, none of the Lackawanna Six appeared to be actively plotting to attack anything. None of them had signed the true jihadist's pledge of loyalty to bin Laden. And none of them seemed eager to put what they had learned at the training camp to use. For some reason, they traveled to the brink of radicalization but didn't go over it.

233 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:58:28am

We need an update of Orwell's classic.
It could be titled ... "Nineteen AP Four"

234 dwells38  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:59:29am

re: #221 karmic_inquisitor

They do but only in reference to conservatives and their beliefs.

235 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #230 karmic_inquisitor

And there was the Bonus Marchers, WW1 veterans put down by MacArthur and Patton in 1932.

236 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:00:20am

re: #216 avanti

I am in agreement with you, if I'm reading you right. Cheney's idea to use them for arresting a few terrorists no, but a terrorist situation that might only be dealt with with military yes. i.e., an entire community is taken over by a large, well armed terrorist cell might call for the military.

I don't have a problem with hypothetical conversations about potential crisis situations. It's important these things are discussed ahead of time, so we can have a plan and it's one that's Constitutional.

I don't see it as sinister at this point. It was a hypothetical discussion, imo.

237 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:00:23am

re: #228 Sharmuta

I think it's natural after 9/11 some issues would come up where the powers that be sit and discuss potential actions and how to carry them out. This is quite possibly a case where the suspects involved could be considered enemy combatants. For the administration to debate about how to handle these issues isn't in and of itself problematic for me.

Absolutely. I'm talking about the employment, not the mulling.

238 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:00:49am

re: #117 DEZes

Hi DEZes!

239 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:02:21am

re: #238 Floral Giraffe

(Floral Giraffe)

240 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:03:02am

re: #236 Sharmuta

I don't have a problem with hypothetical conversations about potential crisis situations. It's important these things are discussed ahead of time, so we can have a plan and it's one that's Constitutional.

I don't see it as sinister at this point. It was a hypothetical discussion, imo.

Exactly. Just like Holdren and others discussing hypothetical crisis situations and drastic means that could be necessary then. Discussion isn't endorsement, and certainly isn't promotion.

Nonissues.

241 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:07:37am

re: #185 karmic_inquisitor

What I find interesting (and is by no means emphasised by anyone in the media) is that Bush said "no" to the idea.

In fact, any hair brained scheme presented to the President that earns a "no" is still a scheme "considered" by the President. Media word games.

karmic -

Elian Gonzalez wasn't exactly "rescued by the Easter Bunny" either from the pictures that I remember.

-S-

242 lobo91  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:08:22am

re: #236 Sharmuta

I don't have a problem with hypothetical conversations about potential crisis situations. It's important these things are discussed ahead of time, so we can have a plan and it's one that's Constitutional.

I don't see it as sinister at this point. It was a hypothetical discussion, imo.

This is just the latest shiny object to be dangled out in front of the public in an attempt to distract attention from the train wreck that is the Obama administration.

243 avanti  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:09:27am

re: #230 karmic_inquisitor

The idea that we haven't used the military for a domestic law enforcement action in the United States is a myth.

For example, FDR used federal troops to crush a race riot/industrial strike in Detroit .

6,000 of them.

[Link: www.blackpast.org...]

I don't know if driving down Woodward Ave was "crushing" ,but it did disperse the mobs.

"In response, federal troops in armored cars and jeeps with automatic weapons drove down Woodward Avenue. The appearance of the troops with their overwhelming firepower succeeded in dispersing the mobs. Over the course of three days, 34 people were killed, of whom 25 were black. 675 suffered serious injuries, and 1,893 were arrested."

244 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:10:05am

re: #240 iceweasel

Exactly. Just like Holdren and others discussing hypothetical crisis situations and drastic means that could be necessary then. Discussion isn't endorsement, and certainly isn't promotion.

Nonissues.

Wish we had this sort of insight into the "mulling" of Waco and ruby ridge.
Strangely, those discussions aren't in the news just when Obamas' popularity polls are plunging. Anyway, this story is so 4 hours ago. Yahoo has replaced this with a Sarah Palin piece "Sarah has questions to answer" or some such. Much better, because they realize Bush is no longer in office.

245 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:29am

re: #240 iceweasel

Exactly. Just like Holdren and others discussing hypothetical crisis situations and drastic means that could be necessary then. Discussion isn't endorsement, and certainly isn't promotion.

Nonissues.

Um, I don't see forced population control , considering an option to treat people like herd management in any way on a par with a a terrorist round up option.
I'm glad that they didn't do it , but the two are not similar.

246 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #240 iceweasel

Exactly. Just like Holdren and others discussing hypothetical crisis situations and drastic means that could be necessary then. Discussion isn't endorsement, and certainly isn't promotion.

Nonissues.

Mustang Sally, you better slow that syllogism down.
One does not "contemplate" genocide.

Sheesh.

247 corky boyd  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:14am

Not only AP now wants to use copyright laws to prevent bloggers from using the material, newpapers are signing on to the same thing. The new tactic is to claim 24 hour exclusivity for a story, and that's not just the word content -- it's the ideas of the story.

If, for instance, the Cleveland Plain Dealer is the first to report a politician raped a co-worker, that story would be out of the public domain, unless permission to report the facts was given by the paper for 24 hours.

This is directly aimed at the blogging community.

248 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:42:53am
How do you like the idea that the Associated Press will be spying on your Internet usage?

Fact: they most likely already are. Most large companies at least build databases that store traffic information; many actively mine that data for a variety of purposes.

I'm not seeing how AP is planning to prevent anyone who want to from linking to their site, however, without completely walling themselves off behind a controlled access portal of some sort. The end result is a loss of audience, and this has been proven any number of times. When the NYT tried building their own Fortress of Solitude accessible only to paid subscribers, traffic plummeted. The same will happen with AP.

Prosecuting cut-and-pasted copies of their articles that appear on other sites is more likely. But here, fair use laws come into play. If it's just a matter of a paragraph or so here and there, I don't see how they can prevent it - particularly if a link back to their source is provided. Wholesale copying of articles in their entirety - which, sadly, isn't uncommon - would be a different matter, and AP is well within their rights to prosecute such theft.

Overall, though, this sounds like the attitude of a desperate loser who simply doesn't understand the medium they're talking about.

249 the historian  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:45:52am

Goodbye AP. It was fun while you lasted. See you in the media hall of infamy.

250 RandomUK  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:51:43am

Surely the spyware in photos is easy to be rid of. Simply take a screen capture and save that as a jpeg. Not only no spy, it isn't even the same file due to different options on file compression. It won't match on any sensible automated search.

251 Render  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:04:11pm

Perhaps AP doesn't like having its distortions, lies, and "mistakes" exposed for what they are within seconds of them hitting the public perception.

===

Avanti: Yes, federal troops and equipment, under the direct command of General Wesley Clarke (then commander of the 1st Cav Div out of Fort Hood) were at Waco. No National Guard units were operating M-1 Abrams in 1993, there were at least two, possibly three Abrams present at Waco (hattip Killian Bundy). None of the Texas National Guard combat engineer units (111th CE Battalion was airborne) in 1993 operated or were issued the M-728 CEV, a vehicle which is quite prominent in almost every single official video of the siege.

Furthermore, as was noted early in last nights dead thread, Eisenhower used Federal troops from the 101st ABN Div in Little Rock, Arkansas in 1957.

REDIRECT
REJECTED,
R

252 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:08:51pm

re: #251 Render

Just one quibble Render, I was in the Washington state Army National Guard in 1989-91 and we had Abrams tanks from 1990 on (it was an Armor battalion), unless you were referring to Texas National Guard units?

253 alacrityfitzhugh  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:35:49pm

AP: You are dead to me! If I can't find it anywhere else, I will paraphrase what you say and give you no credit.

Good luck with that business plan!

254 Render  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:42:04pm

re: #252 JHW

Yeah, Texas Guard. Today appears to be National Typo day...and spellcheck doesn't help when an entire word is missing.

[Link: www.texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org...]

"After 1973, all of the Texas armored units were renumbered as battalions of the 112th Armored Regiment. From 1988-1993, Texas had eight battalions assigned to the 112th, making the Texas unit the largest armored formation in the U.S. Army. The 7th and 8th Battalions of the 112th Armored along with other support units in the “Texas Brigade” served in the 50th Armored Division of the New Jersey National Guard. Reorganization in 1993 ended the relationship with the 50th and saw the deactivation of the 7th and 8th Battalions."

The 1993 reorganization and deactivation that is mentioned included the transition from the M-60A3 to the M-1 Abrams. I suspect they were one of the last to make the switch because they were the largest at the time.

49th Arm Div and 36th INF Div are/were all Texas NG divisions.

APOLOGIES,
R

255 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:51:39pm

re: #254 Render

Thanks for getting back Render. Funny anecdote, we were what was called round-out brigade, 1 brigade of National Guard, 2 of the regular Army from Ft. Lewis. The division at Ft. Lewis was the 9th, the same one I'd served with in Vietnam. Therefore I had the 9th division patch on both sleeves, the right sleeve is for the combat patch. They called me 9th Division sandwich, I got a lot of comment about it from regular army guys, including the C.O. of the division. Old guy like me, I was the only one in the unit with a "double".

256 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:14:12pm

re: #250 RandomUK

Surely the spyware in photos is easy to be rid of. Simply take a screen capture and save that as a jpeg. Not only no spy, it isn't even the same file due to different options on file compression. It won't match on any sensible automated search.

Depends on what they mean by "spyware." If they're referring to digital watermarking, there are techniques that easily survive lossy compression, cropping, rescaling, rotation and other simple distortions, and that leave no visible trace on images they're applied to.

257 RexMundi  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:14:56pm

ASSociated Press.

258 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:23:38pm

The Associated Press is an American news agency. The AP is a cooperative owned by its contributing newspapers, radio and television stations in the United States, which both contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributive members of the cooperative.

It's a business and it DOES charge money to organizations that use it's resources. While the internet has enjoyed the free usage of AP material up until now, I guess I can understand why they want to be paid for their material if the user hopes to profit from having it on their website.

259 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:32:18pm

Print mentality meets light speed media pipe... And quails.

260 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:32:34pm

So, the AP is losing money because the dead tree media is going up in smoke and the television media is losing out to programs like American Idol. Solution? Kill what little revenue it still gains through the internet by pissing off the people who rely on it for news stories.

Can you say "seppuku"? I knew you could.

261 Mosse  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:41:43pm

Well, spying on our internet usage is the point, I think. It seems redundant, though, since we found out that all of our keystrokes are recorded and Google readily gives up our search information. In no way should we stop the research we're doing, though. Come and get us, Ness. They keep pushing us, we'll respond.

262 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:48:26pm

there is nobody who says it quite like Victor Davis Hanson:

[Link: victorhanson.com...]

263 notutopia  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:49:10pm

This AP spyware insertion SUCKS!

264 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:08:29pm

This is completely unimplementable without also implementing the technology on the level of the software and hardware used to read it.

265 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:37:02pm

re: #258 _RememberTonyC

The Associated Press is an American news agency. The AP is a cooperative owned by its contributing newspapers, radio and television stations in the United States, which both contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributive members of the cooperative.

It's a business and it DOES charge money to organizations that use it's resources. While the internet has enjoyed the free usage of AP material up until now, I guess I can understand why they want to be paid for their material if the user hopes to profit from having it on their website.

Well, I would argue that having links to their articles on search engines and blogs does help their revenue situation -- enormously. A lot of people are clicking those links who wouldn't have found them otherwise, and when they click through, the sites that host the AP articles increase their advertising impressions and click-throughs as well.

For this reason, I believe that if the AP is successful at shutting down the linking of their articles, it's actually going to end up hurting their bottom line very substantially.

Not to mention the incredibly bad PR they're going to get, the first time they try to enforce it.

266 Gretchen  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:37:36pm

The AP needs consider typing stories on typewriter paper, folding them into tiny squares and burying the stories in the ground. That way they can be assured no one reads the stories at all, and no one who contracts from them has any way to attract advertisers so they'll all go out of business, and put the AP out of business.

This plan sounds like one of the democrat's recent economic plans - spend trillions on waste, raise taxes, raise the minimum wage and force small business to pay for health insurance and/or pay fines. Then expect the economy to turn around.

267 freedombilly  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:10:46pm

In other news, the AP will also try to prevent water from flowing down hill.

268 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:36:58pm

re: #176 JHW

I'm going to have to re-read "Germania", I vaguely remember something about the women accompanying men in battle, real Valkyries, I guess.
The Agricola and Germania, downloadable e-book, PDF.

And Varus Battlefield found

The part about the healthy young Germans of both sexes bathing together in the cold rivers is always a treat to read.

And some things don't change even in millennia. The Germans are still largely nudists. A girlfriend of mine was outraged when told to put her top back on at a local swimming hole near here. "Was sind diese Amis für prüde, Mensch!" I couldn't agree more.

269 ihateronpaul  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:46:19pm

you can't control web links. this is garbage.

270 Tats66  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:33pm

Damn! Where will I get my slanted, biased news coverage now???

271 Pickles  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:20:02pm

..and obvious failure to understand how information and technology have changed. The furor that will erupt the first time they try to make good on these threats is going to be really bad PR for them.

272 Aisha  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:01:12pm

You kufr think the Muslims are stupid. We have the buzzing prayer rug. We want every Masjid and every madrassah and every house to have Al-Jazeerah. And the great-satanists try to stop people visiting their sites?!?

As the filthy Jew would say "Oy gevalt!"

273 missykrissy  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 7:17:03pm

Information wants to be free.
The AP wants to be broke.
?
?
?
Works for me!


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