The Roots of Obama’s Nefarious Communist Volunteerist Plot - Revealed!

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Following up on Glenn Beck’s latest attempt to warn the country, or to put it another way, Glenn Beck’s latest bugeyed freakout, here’s a little reminder that this diabolical commie plot to encourage volunteerism didn’t start with Barack Obama.

Oh no, my friends! For the origin of this truly monstrous scheme we must plumb the depths of America’s sekrit history!

Ronald Reagan: Announcement of the Creation of the President’s Volunteer Action Awards Program.

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278 comments
1 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:13:39am

Some days I wish that duct tape over the mouth was a part of Beck’s wardrobe.

Good morning, y’all!

2 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:15:15am

OT but breaking: MSNBC live feed for terror arrest news conference in boston here

MSNBC Video
3 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:18:38am
The President today announced the creation of the President’s Volunteer Action Awards to honor outstanding volunteer achievement by individual citizens and their organizations.

The awards program is cosponsored by VOLUNTEER, the National Center for Citizen Involvement, and ACTION in a unique cooperative effort between the private sector and government.

The President will present the awards at a White House ceremony in April. Awards will be made in seven categories: jobs, health, material resources, education, recreation and the environment, public safety, the arts and humanities.

The gipper’s a commie!
//

4 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:18:53am

The funny thing about volunteering is that sometimes we start doing it because we were motivated or asked by someone else to do it. And then, after doing it a few times and seeing how grateful the recipients of our time are, we continue doing it on our own because we actually get something out of it too. That has been my personal experience.

5 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:19:06am

Dear Glenn,
Can we skip the artificial hysterics and go back to looking at the economic mess, rising national debt and government takover of a sizable chunk of the economy?

6 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:20:34am

And before that… JFK in his famous speech, “…ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” Too bad that the current generation of Americans is more concerned about what government can do for them (gimme gimme) than realizing that the government is not the answer to all that ails.

OT:
We have names and targets in the Boston terror plot:

Tariq Mehanna, 27, is facing charges of conspiring to provide material support to terrorists. Authorities allege he conspired with Ahmad Abousamra and others to provide material support to terrorists, US Attorney Michael Loucks and Boston FBI chief Warren Bamford said in a statement.

Mehanna and co-conspirators allegedly had multiple conversations about obtaining automatic weapons and shooting people in a shoopping mall, including discussions of the logistics of the mall attacks, and possible attacks on emergency responders.

That’s two major busts in the past two months (the Zazi case in NYC/Colorado).

7 rwdflynavy  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:21:30am

Reagan was a RINO!!!
//

8 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:22:35am

I volunteered for a few years at a crisis line, I got to talk to people like Glen Beck. I also believe I stopped five people from taking their lives. I remember each of those conversations and since I was young at the time they certainly helped shape my views on the value and purpose of life.

9 acwgusa  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:23:05am

The only way I would volunteer is if somebody made me.

/S

10 Four More Tears  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:23:11am

re: #7 rwdflynavy

Reagan was a RINO!!!
//

I don’t think the sarc tags will keep you safe with a statement like that. :P

11 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:24:08am

I was a volunteer EMT for about 4 years. I would still be one if I had more time to do it, and if they didn’t make it so damn complicated to volunteer.

12 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:25:57am

oh noes! W’s a commie too!

//

13 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:26:53am
Delivering the commencement address before 5,500 Ohio State University graduates and degree recipients, Bush renewed the effort begun after the 9/11 terrorist attacks to involve millions of Americans in purposeful community service.

“Service is not a chain or a chore — it gives direction to your gifts and purpose to your freedom,” Bush said.

14 boyo  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:29:13am

becks whole act is throwing as much crap out there as he possibly can fit into his daily shows hoping any of it sticks.next week will be more of the same.

the sad part is that hes got a large following who believes his every word

15 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:31:33am
Youtube Video
16 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:34:07am

OT:
Let’s make a deal: IAEA says Iran agrees to ship most of enriched uranium to Russia.

Right. And what about that part of the enriched uranium that doesn’t include most. You know, the rest of the enriched uranium? What will that go for? If you think it’s for a civilian nuclear purpose, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

17 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:35:49am

re: #16 lawhawk

OT:
Let’s make a deal: IAEA says Iran agrees to ship most of enriched uranium to Russia.

Right. And what about that part of the enriched uranium that doesn’t include most. You know, the rest of the enriched uranium? What will that go for? If you think it’s for a civilian nuclear purpose, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I’d but that bridge, if I got to throw Dinner Jacket off of it.

/kidding

18 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:37:52am

American volunteers…

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com…]

19 Big Steve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:38:07am

Why stop at Ronnie…weren’t the Minutemen of Bunker Hill fame volunteers?

20 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:39:37am

re: #19 Big Steve

Why stop at Ronnie…weren’t the Minutemen of Bunker Hill fame volunteers?

Come to think of it, yes.
Oh noes, the Minutemen were commies too!

21 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:39:57am

Take no chances

Controversial Fox News host Glenn Beck is now travelling with an armed guard. Guests at the other day’s preview of Broadway musical “Memphis” noticed Beck was closely accompanied — even to the men’s room — by a body guard with a gun partially con cealed under his jacket. Beck, who famously accused President Obama of being “a rac ist,” tweeted after the show: “Just got back from ‘Memphis’ on Broadway. Amazing cast & music. 2 songs abt Hope & Change. rlly? Only 2?” A rep for Beck declined to comment.

22 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:40:08am

re: #19 Big Steve

Yes!
We were!
Did I just give away my age…

23 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:41:29am

Allright …This time I’m really unplugging my puter!!
My new office has a…WINDOW!!!
A real window…
Snoppy Dance!!!

24 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:42:18am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

I’d buy that bridge, if I got to throw Dinner Jacket off of it.

/kidding

PIMF

25 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:42:25am

Which President used the phrase “a thousand points of light” to describe volunteers?

Hint: He was in the GOP.

26 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:42:54am

I thought republicans loved Ronald Reagan so much they still vote for him as anyone with an R by his name.

27 Big Steve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:43:18am

re: #25 Alouette

Which President used the phrase “a thousand points of light” to describe volunteers?

Hint: He was in the GOP.

aah…Dana Carvey?

28 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:44:16am

re: #25 Alouette

Not gonna do it. Wouldn’t be prudent. /GHWB

29 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:45:08am

re: #26 Pepper Fox

I thought republicans loved Ronald Reagan so much they still vote for him as anyone with an R by his name.

that’s profound

30 lurking faith  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:45:31am

re: #6 lawhawk

And before that… JFK in his famous speech, “…ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” Too bad that the current generation of Americans is more concerned about what government can do for them (gimme gimme) than realizing that the government is not the answer to all that ails.

Well, you know, JFK was a Democrat…

/ahem

31 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:46:42am

re: #14 boyo

becks whole act is throwing as much crap out there as he possibly can fit into his daily shows hoping any of it sticks.next week will be more of the same.

the sad part is that hes got a large following who believes his every word

Not a new idea. Semper aliquid haeret.

32 Big Steve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:47:13am

I like to think about what would have been great elections to observe…the best would have been a Ronald Reagan v Bill Clinton match up…the sheer entertainment value would have been sublime.

33 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:47:14am

President Obama at Points of Light Forum in Texas

The President attends the Points of Light forum at Texas A&M University. Points of Light is a non-profit organization decided to supporting volunteer-based organizations. The forum was hosted by President and Points of Light founder George H.W. Bush. October 16, 2009.

Youtube Video
34 philosophus invidius  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:49:51am

re: #1 MrSilverDragon

Some days I wish that duct tape over the mouth was a part of Beck’s wardrobe.


What do you mean “some days”?

re: #15 lawhawk

But JFK was a commie! So that proves my point.
/Glenn Beck

35 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:50:10am

re: #32 Big Steve

I like to think about what would have been great elections to observe…the best would have been a Ronald Reagan v Bill Clinton match up…the sheer entertainment value would have been sublime.

Fantasy Polls League??

36 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:52:00am

Morning all! As folks here probably know, I volunteer on a regular basis as a Meals on Wheels driver. I guess you could say it’s not strictly “voluntary” as my wife is the executive director of our senior center, and when she says ‘volunteer dear’, I say, “yes dear”. Seriously, I’d do it regardless, because it helps our seniors stay in their homes, and have a shot at decent nutrition - as well as a chance to have someone to chat with for a bit each day.

The Reagan announcement began this way:

The President today announced the creation of the President’s Volunteer Action Awards to honor outstanding volunteer achievement by individual citizens and their organizations.

If I read it correctly, the focus was on recognizing the contributions by volunteers comprised of individuals and organizations, not to mandate volunteerism.

If a school provides extra credit to students who volunteer their time, it is in keeping with the idea of recognizing and rewarding individual commitment. If a school mandates volunteerism as a requirement to advance or graduate, it is no longer an encouragement, it is a directive.

If this administration wishes to recognize the achievements of volunteers, I can get behind it. If its focus is on compelling volunteerism under the auspices of a federal agency or program, I think they’re missing the point.

37 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:53:36am

re: #34 philosophus invidius

What do you mean “some days”?

There’s the other days where I wish it was like “Twilight Zone: The Movie”, where the kid wishes away his sister’s mouth. However, the duct tape is far more viable.

38 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:54:53am

re: #37 MrSilverDragon

More fun to pull off, too/

39 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:54:54am

re: #32 Big Steve

Actually, a real interesting matchup would have been Obama v. Reagan, seeing how Obama cribbed much of the hopiness and cheeriness of Reagan with a fraction of the substance. Clinton benefited greatly from 3d party candidates siphoning votes.

But the commonality between the three is that all three pushed a positive message that resonated with many Americans.

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:55:27am

Looks like we’ll have to kick Tennesse out of the Union or get it to change its motto.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask rather how you can help Obama and his nefarious communist-fascist Manchurian candidate covert Islamist terrorist sympathizer abortionist grandma euthanizers plot to end America as Glenn Beck Knows and loves it and breaks down in tears of over the mere prospect of losing!!!

41 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:58:11am

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Fantasy Polls League??

I’ve got Nixon at QB

42 philosophus invidius  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:58:38am

re: #36 subsailor68

Wasn’t there some study that showed the “conservatives” actually volunteer more than “liberals”?

43 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:59:19am

re: #41 Guanxi88

I’ve got Nixon at QB

I’ll take Gerald Ford at Center.

44 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:59:34am

Not necessarily off-topic:

Nation’s Morons March on Washington State

“I didn’t know Washington, D.C. had Seattle in it,” said Connecticut resident Kyle Hinton, an idiot. “Anyway, stop the war! No more hate! Swine flu! Iran! Pharmaceutical companies! Illegal immigrants! Never again!”

45 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:00:12am

re: #41 Guanxi88

I’ve got Nixon at QB

Carter can wash the jock straps.

46 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:01:04am

re: #44 negativ

[Link: www.theonion.com…]

Once upon a time, I didn’t make errors like that. Is this all that getting older has to offer? Shit.

47 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:02:49am

Sorry, but this is nothing like Obama proposing mandatory public service for students. He hasn’t done anything officially yet, but he has talked about it, as well as talked about creating a civilian force that rivals the size of the military. All Reagan was doing was recognizing outstanding voluteers with awards. How does that even comapre?

I don’t agree with Beck that Obama is trying to create some sort of Hitler Youth, but he does seem to believe in public service and that the government should force/push people into doing it. Volunteerism is good, just keep the government out of it.

48 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:04:14am

re: #42 philosophus invidius

Wasn’t there some study that showed the “conservatives” actually volunteer more than “liberals”?

If you count church, that is very true.

49 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:04:25am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

Carter can wash the jock straps.

Teddy Roosevelt as Defensive Tackle.

50 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:04:40am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

Carter can wash the jock straps.

Speaking of volunteerism—-

51 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:05:02am

re: #42 philosophus invidius

Don’t know for sure if conservatives are more likely to volunteer than liberals, but here is a 2008 study by the Dept. of Labor on Volunteering in the United States.

52 tackle  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:06:58am

One significant difference with Obama’s program and Reagan’s is that Obama’s is pushing for “a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people”, whereas Reagan’s (and most others) is built around supporting volunteer efforts in the public and private sector, and recognizing outstanding service.
I have no problem volunteering, as long is it’s, well, volunteer.

53 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:07:40am

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

Ford - Safety

54 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:07:47am

re: #1 MrSilverDragon

Some days I wish that duct tape over the mouth was a part of Beck’s wardrobe.

Good morning, y’all!

Slightly OT: Channeling surfing the other day we came across an episode of “world’s dumbest criminals” (or something close to that). A man in Kentucky took duct tape and wrapped his head in it like a mummy to rob a convenience store. The store clerk laughed at him, and a much larger patron ran him down and held him for the police. The video of the criminal with tape removed was priceless.

“Talk about a sticky situation.” —Shaggy

55 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:08:32am

re: #42 philosophus invidius

Wasn’t there some study that showed the “conservatives” actually volunteer more than “liberals”?

Hi philosophus. I don’t really know, but it does seem that folks with a more conservative (or independent) bent would be likely to support individual volunteerism, as they tend to shy away from government mandated programs. If there is a study out there on that, I haven’t seen it.

I do know, however, that folks with a more religious nature do tend to volunteer on a higher basis - be they conservative or liberal. Here’s one link from back in 2002:

The Potential for Increased Volunteering in Religious Organizations

(Can’t vouch for the accuracy of the study, as I’m not familiar with the organization.)

56 arethusa  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:09:02am

re: #42 philosophus invidius

Wasn’t there some study that showed the “conservatives” actually volunteer more than “liberals”?

I think you mean Arthur Brooks’s book Who Really Cares? I have not read it. I remember when it came out a few reviewers complained about bias, while others seemed to think his statistics were quite solid. Is anyone here more familiar with it?

57 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:09:30am

re: #48 Soundboard Fez

From the study I linked to above.

In 2008, the main organization—the organization for which the
volunteer worked the most hours during the year—was most frequently
religious (35.1 percent of all volunteers), followed by educational or
youth service related (26.0 percent). Another 13.5 percent of volun-
teers performed activities mainly for social or community service
organizations.

58 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:09:32am

re: #53 wozzablog

Ford - Safety

He’d be better as a center or linebacker. Those are positioned he played while at the UofM.

59 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:10:36am

re: #47 lightspeed

Sorry, but this is nothing like Obama proposing mandatory public service for students. He hasn’t done anything officially yet, but he has talked about it, as well as talked about creating a civilian force that rivals the size of the military. (snip)

The core of this idea is an expansion of the NCCC, an Americorps
element that tracks back to the depression-era Civilian Conservation Corps
run by the Army Corps of Engineers. I worked with an NCCC team for
a year on Habitat houses. They were spectacular (non-useless) kids.

60 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:11:14am

re: #57 Bubblehead II

From the study I linked to above.

In 2008, the main organization—the organization for which the
volunteer worked the most hours during the year—was most frequently
religious (35.1 percent of all volunteers), followed by educational or
youth service related (26.0 percent). Another 13.5 percent of volun-
teers performed activities mainly for social or community service
organizations.

Hey Bubblehead! Nice to see you! That seems to mirror the study I linked to in number 55, so I’d suspect it’s pretty accurate.

61 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:11:41am

“… help other people at all times …”

— Boy Scout Oath.

62 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:11:41am

re: #42 philosophus invidius

Wasn’t there some study that showed the “conservatives” actually volunteer more than “liberals”?

Most volunteer firefighters and EMTs I know are conservative.

63 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:12:22am

re: #58 Honorary Yooper

As may be - but i believe he would be more mobile and have better field coverage than a Taft type who would in turn be better on the line of Scrimmage - more girth.

64 tackle  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:13:59am

re: #59 Decatur Deb

The core of this idea is an expansion of the NCCC, an Americorps
element that tracks back to the depression-era Civilian Conservation Corps
run by the Army Corps of Engineers. I worked with an NCCC team for
a year on Habitat houses. They were spectacular (non-useless) kids.


I have no problem with this type of program, as long as it was strictly “volunteer”. Making it mandatory smacks of other progressive-type programs that values the government’s free agency over your own.

65 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:14:15am

re: #63 wozzablog

As may be - but i believe he would be more mobile and have better field coverage than a Taft type who would in turn be better on the line of Scrimmage - more girth.

Damn, could you imagine Taft as a lineman or tackle?

66 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:15:48am

I’d guess that many, if not most, of the posters here volunteer their time on at least one project. I do know that after spending a few hours with our seniors, I come home feeling that I really couldn’t have made better use of my time, and I’d guess everyone here has felt that same way.

If, on the other hand, we had all been coerced into doing it, we’d probably feel we’d done some good, but not have that terrific feeling that we’d done it simply because it needed to be done.

67 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:16:10am

re: #59 Decatur Deb

The core of this idea is an expansion of the NCCC, an Americorps
element that tracks back to the depression-era Civilian Conservation Corps
run by the Army Corps of Engineers. I worked with an NCCC team for
a year on Habitat houses. They were spectacular (non-useless) kids.

Yes, and I don’t doubt that the kids were great. I just don’t like the idea of government involvement, especially if the service is mandated. What types of projects will the organiztion take on? Will the voluteers be used to help facilitate liberal pet projects only to be re-purposed on conservative ones when a new administration comes in? As I have said, I have no problem with the government giving incentives to private voluteer organizations.

68 cliffster  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:16:16am

re: #52 tackle

One significant difference with Obama’s program and Reagan’s is that Obama’s is pushing for “a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people”, whereas Reagan’s (and most others) is built around supporting volunteer efforts in the public and private sector, and recognizing outstanding service.
I have no problem volunteering, as long is it’s, well, volunteer.

I would agree, but I haven’t seen anywhere that he’s actually pushing for that, other than people saying that he is.

69 cliffster  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:17:43am

re: #66 subsailor68

I’d guess that many, if not most, of the posters here volunteer their time on at least one project. I do know that after spending a few hours with our seniors, I come home feeling that I really couldn’t have made better use of my time, and I’d guess everyone here has felt that same way.

If, on the other hand, we had all been coerced into doing it, we’d probably feel we’d done some good, but not have that terrific feeling that we’d done it simply because it needed to be done.

Similarly, when I mail off a giant check to pay my taxes, I don’t get filled with warm fuzzies for the good that I’m doing.

70 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:18:02am

re: #64 tackle

I have no problem with this type of program, as long as it was strictly “volunteer”. Making it mandatory smacks of other progressive-type programs that values the government’s free agency over your own.

I don’t see it going mandatory in a society that no longer even uses
the military draft. Right now, the kids get a thin cost-of-living allowance
and college support credit like the G.I. bill.

71 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:20:39am

re: #60 subsailor68

Thanks. I’ve been around, mainly lurking.

72 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:21:53am

When I was in high school we had required community service hours we had to meet, and most of the students were rich kids too. It was a great experience in the long run and I think it should be implemented in all schools.

73 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:22:51am

re: #68 cliffster

I would agree, but I haven’t seen anywhere that he’s actually pushing for that, other than people saying that he is.

Obama want’s two years mandatory service

Obama’s plan for national service

74 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:24:06am

re: #67 lightspeed

Yes, and I don’t doubt that the kids were great. I just don’t like the idea of government involvement, especially if the service is mandated. What types of projects will the organiztion take on? Will the voluteers be used to help facilitate liberal pet projects only to be re-purposed on conservative ones when a new administration comes in? As I have said, I have no problem with the government giving incentives to private voluteer organizations.

There is a lot on the NCCC plate. In fact we lost them to Katrina work.
To see what they and Americorps do, it’s easier to check their websites.
It could be abused, but much work like disaster response is pretty non-
partisan.

75 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:24:24am

re: #72 Pepper Fox

When I was in high school we had required community service hours we had to meet, and most of the students were rich kids too. It was a great experience in the long run and I think it should be implemented in all schools.

There’s something a little ironic, though, in thinking that someone’s learned the meaning of service when it’s mandatory.

76 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:24:41am

re: #62 Mad Al-Jaffee

Most volunteer firefighters and EMTs I know are conservative.

Well that is usually because departments with volunteer services are extremely rural and those values are deep rooted in those communities.

77 Baier  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:24:41am

re: #72 Pepper Fox

When I was in high in school we had required community service hours we had to meet, and most of the students were rich kids too. It was a great experience in the long run and I think it should be implemented in all schools.


I think we went to different schools.

78 cliffster  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:26:51am

re: #73 lightspeed

Obama want’s two years mandatory service

Obama’s plan for national service

Those are both from early in the campaigns, and didn’t really say anything about mandatory service, just a call asking people to serve.

79 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:27:32am

re: #75 bosforus

There’s something a little ironic, though, in thinking that someone’s learned the meaning of service when it’s mandatory.

Yeah I guess you’re right, but if it wasn’t for that most of these kids wouldn’t get real world experience unless they were caught with weed and were forced to serve community services. This school was pretty much college prep and nothing else. As Calvin’s dad would put it: It builds character!

80 tackle  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:28:33am

re: #66 subsailor68

I’d guess that many, if not most, of the posters here volunteer their time on at least one project. I do know that after spending a few hours with our seniors, I come home feeling that I really couldn’t have made better use of my time, and I’d guess everyone here has felt that same way.

If, on the other hand, we had all been coerced into doing it, we’d probably feel we’d done some good, but not have that terrific feeling that we’d done it simply because it needed to be done.

Additionally, we choose which organizations we feel are worthy, rather than be compelled to serve an organziation we would otherwise not choose to be aligned with.

81 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:29:36am

re: #79 Pepper Fox

Very good point. I guess it comes down to the old “Just because everyone else didn’t learn the value of ___ at home doesn’t mean I should be required to here”. Not sure how it’s best settled.

82 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:30:18am

re: #72 Pepper Fox

When I was in high school we had required community service hours we had to meet, and most of the students were rich kids too. It was a great experience in the long run and I think it should be implemented in all schools.

Hi Pepper. I don’t doubt that you benefited from the experience of volunteering. It is the requirement to do so that is troubling. If a school said to the students, “volunteering is a wonderful way to give back to our community. We encourage all of you to spend a bit of your time in a volunteer project of your own choosing, and we’re sure you’ll be glad you did. To that end, we will provide extra credit to any student who chooses to volunteer, and will work with you to set up your scholastic schedule to make sure you have the time to participate.”

As opposed to: “Volunteering is a wonderful way to give back to our community. If you want to graduate, you’d better get your asses in gear.”

83 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:30:45am

What about special tax breaks for volunteer hours? You get them for giving away money, why not time and labor?

84 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:31:12am

re: #58 Honorary Yooper

He’d be better as a center or linebacker. Those are positioned he played while at the UofM.

I wasn’t around then, were the Wolverines still The Ohio State University’s whipping post?

85 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:31:15am

re: #76 Pepper Fox

Well that is usually because departments with volunteer services are extremely rural and those values are deep rooted in those communities.

I served in one that is very suburban, just a few miles north of DC.

86 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:32:30am

re: #83 Pepper Fox

Most kids aren’t paying taxes at that age.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:32:39am

re: #69 cliffster

Similarly, when I mail off a giant check to pay my taxes, I don’t get filled with warm fuzzies for the good that I’m doing.

Oliver Wendell Holmes would say that you should. ;)

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:34:14am

re: #72 Pepper Fox

When I was in high school we had required community service hours we had to meet, and most of the students were rich kids too. It was a great experience in the long run and I think it should be implemented in all schools.

At the school I teach at, the kids have twenty Christian Service hours a year. Some of them do a LOT more.

89 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:34:20am

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Oliver Wendell Holmes would say that you should. ;)

Gotta pay your dues, dude.

90 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:34:53am

re: #75 bosforus

There’s something a little ironic, though, in thinking that someone’s learned the meaning of service when it’s mandatory.

But don’t try explaining that in the paper you have to write about the service. I don’t think my teacher looked favorably at my opening sentence.

91 gregb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:34:59am

I don’t think anyone has any problem with volunteerism, it’s just the mind-numbing, over-abundance of scandals that have plagued the most active ones recently.

If it’s one thing Americans hate it’s dishonesty and muck.

All government programs are starting to look like fraudulent, wasteful enterprises. It’s like the old saying, anyone who claims to know everything they have on their 1 terabyte hard drive is lying. I think the same goes for a billion dollars. Now some of these programs are tens or hundreds.

92 tackle  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:35:25am

re: #78 cliffster

Those are both from early in the campaigns, and didn’t really say anything about mandatory service, just a call asking people to serve.

The GIVE/SERVE bills Democrats tried to pass in March of this year contained such language. The provision in the House version of the bill directs Congress to explore
“whether a workable, fair and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic and educational backgrounds.”
The mandatory element may be a “pie in the sky” for Obama, but the language is there nonetheless.

93 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:36:07am

New word for me.

Nontroversy. This should have been a nontroversy. Glad the foolishness is being pointed out but wow. “Grasping at straws” pales in comparison.

94 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:36:24am

re: #85 Mad Al-Jaffee

I served in one that is very suburban, just a few miles north of DC.

Ah yeah I do know a few in suburbs come to think of it, I would love to get enrolled in a volunteer fire program but I currently can’t due to a few factors (out of state DL and school in a different field) but I do have my Red Cross cert in first aid and CPR/AED and plenty of informal EMT training from friends who are army medic vets and paramedics. I am also a ham operator and volunteer in Skywarn and emergency management.

95 philosophus invidius  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:37:21am

Another example of Obama’s radical left-wing agenda:

Boos as Obama taps Yucca supporter

96 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:37:35am

re: #78 cliffster

Those are both from early in the campaigns, and didn’t really say anything about mandatory service, just a call asking people to serve.

From the first link:

” Obama suggested a year or two of mandatory national service be tied to loan forgiveness.”

I’ll grant that these are not recent, but it at least shows what his vision of volunteerism is. Now, if you want to argue that he often says things he doesn’t mean, I have no defense.

97 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:37:48am

re: #86 bosforus

Most kids aren’t paying taxes at that age.

Well I meant for in general, not kids. Incentive to get more volunteer programs going.

98 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:39:30am

re: #95 philosophus invidius

Another example of Obama’s radical left-wing agenda:

Boos as Obama taps Yucca supporter

This is an appointment I can support. Go nuke, already.

99 Baier  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:39:45am

My friends and I make bagged lunches for the working poor. People that have jobs but are trying to get back on their feet, most live in shelters. They are unmarked brown-bag lunches. Honestly, it’s nice to help, but we like to hang out and we even have a couple cold ones while we work!

100 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:39:49am

re: #94 Pepper Fox

Ah yeah I do know a few in suburbs come to think of it, I would love to get enrolled in a volunteer fire program but I currently can’t due to a few factors (out of state DL and school in a different field) but I do have my Red Cross cert in first aid and CPR/AED and plenty of informal EMT training from friends who are army medic vets and paramedics. I am also a ham operator and volunteer in Skywarn and emergency management.

I became an EMT by joining my local firehouse. They took care of all the training, through the County and State fire departments. I couldn’t start my training until months after I joined. They didn’t care about driver’s licenses until you started Emergency Vehicle Operations training.

I could have become a firefighter as well, but I was only interested in the EMS side. Let the other guys go INTO the burning buildings. I’ll stay in the staging area where it’s (relatively) safe.

101 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:40:03am

re: #4 _RememberTonyC

The funny thing about volunteering is that sometimes we start doing it because we were motivated or asked by someone else to do it. And then, after doing it a few times and seeing how grateful the recipients of our time are, we continue doing it on our own because we actually get something out of it too. That has been my personal experience.

Me too. And I’ve had the chance to see real volunteers like that working alongside government program volunteers, who are participating in exchange for some goodie like tuition assistance or some such. The difference in attitude and motivation is stark.

But of course, no matter how much we volunteer, if we balk at a tax hike that means we’re “selfish”.

102 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:40:05am

re: #92 tackle

Good find. Forgot about that one.

103 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:40:10am

re: #96 lightspeed

From the first link:

” Obama suggested a year or two of mandatory national service be tied to loan forgiveness.”

I’ll grant that these are not recent, but it at least shows what his vision of volunteerism is. Now, if you want to argue that he often says things he doesn’t mean, I have no defense.

Poor use of language somewhere in the chain.

104 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:40:41am

re: #98 Guanxi88

This is an appointment I can support.

Is hell freezing over?

/

105 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:41:10am

I dispense priceless and often witty commentary at this website on a near daily basis for the whole world to see. It’s my service to mankind.

106 avanti  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:41:16am

re: #4 _RememberTonyC

The funny thing about volunteering is that sometimes we start doing it because we were motivated or asked by someone else to do it. And then, after doing it a few times and seeing how grateful the recipients of our time are, we continue doing it on our own because we actually get something out of it too. That has been my personal experience.

Excellent point. My wife conned me into having a Studebaker Meet at the assisted living center where she works. I had to twist a few arms to get a dozen or so to show up, but we had a blast watching the old folks get behind the well and tell us stories about the cars they learned to drive with.
After the show, more than one person suggested they were going to try and do the same at their local old folks home. What started out as what we thought was a unselfish good deed, turned into a great time for all.
I see no problem with our POTUS encouraging volunteerism, even though many don’t need the push, a little nudge can’t hurt.

107 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:41:51am

re: #95 philosophus invidius

Another example of Obama’s radical left-wing agenda:

Boos as Obama taps Yucca supporter

What’s wrong with them? Fried yucca is awesome with South American food!

108 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:42:07am

re: #95 philosophus invidius

Another example of Obama’s radical left-wing agenda:

Boos as Obama taps Yucca supporter

Seems like a good pick. I hope this means that nuclear energy is on the table.

109 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:42:17am

i’m a player/officer/administrator at my local sports club and have been for over a decade - never had a penny out of it.

Just good times with people a lot older than myself who are staying active because of the help and support the league and club admins give them


it’s all good :-)

110 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:42:18am

re: #75 bosforus

There’s something a little ironic, though, in thinking that someone’s learned the meaning of service when it’s mandatory.

Yes. Everyone should have the chance to meet a retired couple who tapped their nest egg, sold the contents of their attic, fund-raised at their church, all in order to go build Habitat houses in South America for two years.

111 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:42:21am

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died

*update: 5.35pm. Megrahi’s lawyers are denying reports that he has died.

A few weeks after his controversial release from a scottish prison, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi is dead. He was suffering from terminal cancer.

Sky’s political editor Adam Boulton said: “Official sources in Westminster are seeking to confirm reports that the Lockerbie bomber may have died.

“Al-Megrahi was released controversially in August from Scottish prison by SNP Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill, on compassionate grounds.

“At the time, it was claimed he had less than three months to live, because of prostate cancer.”

*48 Hour Rule.

112 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:42:39am

re: #104 bratwurst

Is hell freezing over?

/

It can happen. Get me started on my theory that Obama is a left-hawk sometime, and watch me piss off everybody in the room.

113 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:43:04am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died

*48 Hour Rule.

Agree. If he’s dead, he’ll be just as dead in 48 hours, actually deader.

114 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:43:35am

re: #95 philosophus invidius

Anti-nuclear groups are fighting the Obama administration’s nomination of a pro-Yucca Mountain nuclear industry insider to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Yeah! What the hell is he thinking nominating a nuclear industry insider to the NRC? This job should go to a World Wildlife Fund representative.
///

115 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:44:32am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died


*48 Hour Rule.

Jooos killed him!

//

116 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:44:33am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died

*48 Hour Rule.

Show me the prostate.

117 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:44:48am

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

Agree. If he’s dead, he’ll be just as dead in 48 hours, actually deader.

Como el Caudillo.

118 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:45:11am

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Poor use of language somewhere in the chain.

Possibly. I actually would have no problem with loan forgiveness based on voluteer service as long as it is not mandatory.

119 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:46:14am

re: #108 lightspeed

The Florida Public Service Commission on Friday agreed to let the state’s two largest utilities collect more than $270 million from ratepayers next year as a down payment to develop new nuclear plants expected to come online in the next decade.

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:47:39am

This is what a flippin’ “Bully Pulpit” is for…

121 J.S.  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:48:09am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

His lawyer is claiming he’s still alive…

122 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:48:16am

re: #119 CommonCents

Good to read. It should become a national priority.

123 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:48:47am

re: #121 J.S.

His lawyer is claiming he’s still alive…

‘e’s pinin’ for the fjords!

124 drcordell  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:49:44am

re: #118 lightspeed

Possibly. I actually would have no problem with loan forgiveness based on voluteer service as long as it is not mandatory.

I think the semantics are clouding the true meaning here. Mandatory service in exchange for loan forgiveness doesn’t mean everyone is forced to volunteer. I would interpret that statement to mean if you wish, you may volunteer in exchange for loan forgiveness. The volunteering is only “mandatory” if you want to have your loans forgiven. Seems reasonable to me.

125 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:50:44am

re: #122 lightspeed

Good to read. It should become a national priority.

Nuke is good, mafia-built containment structures less so. Put the
Navy in charge at the operating level.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:51:05am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died


*48 Hour Rule.


(plus prayers…)

127 Baier  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:51:48am

re: #121 J.S.

His lawyer is claiming he’s still alive…


Typical…

128 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:54:17am

re: #127 Baier

Typical…

Starting to sound like the opening scene from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail”…

129 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:54:35am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died

70 Virgins in Heaven: “Oh, sh*t.”

130 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:54:40am

re: #125 Decatur Deb

Nuke is good, mafia-built containment structures less so. Put the
Navy in charge at the operating level.

Some sort of standardized design would be beneficial on just about all fronts. It would help ensure safety, as defects that arise can have uniform fixes applied across the board, and it would streamline design and construction time tremendously. Making each reactor a custom-built specialty project is neither fast nor cheap. Especially when we really ought to be building hundreds of reactors coast to coast as quickly as possible.

131 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:54:51am

You know who else wants people to become pinko-commie socialistic volunteers, hmm?

SATAN!

/church lady

132 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:56:16am

Oh yay!

Pelosi’s ‘Public Option’ Bill Gets Boost From Report Pegging Cost Below Obama’s $900B

How far below? Glad ya asked:

The Congressional Budget Office, reporting back on the cost of two-of-three House bills, pegged the cost of a health reform package that included a so-called ‘public option’ at $871 billion — less than the $900 billion projected by the Obama administration.

Pelosi is pleased as punch that this option is only $871 billion instead of $900 billion?

How stupid does Ms. Pelosi thing we all are anyway. (Well, I guess that’d be a rhetorical question.)

133 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:58:15am

re: #130 SixDegrees

Some sort of standardized design would be beneficial on just about all fronts. It would help ensure safety, as defects that arise can have uniform fixes applied across the board, and it would streamline design and construction time tremendously. Making each reactor a custom-built specialty project is neither fast nor cheap. Especially when we really ought to be building hundreds of reactors coast to coast as quickly as possible.

Great point. Worked on submarines. But, back then we had Admiral Rickover - and nobody messed with him!

;-)

134 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:58:20am

re: #132 subsailor68

Oh yay!

Pelosi’s ‘Public Option’ Bill Gets Boost From Report Pegging Cost Below Obama’s $900B

How far below? Glad ya asked:

The Congressional Budget Office, reporting back on the cost of two-of-three House bills, pegged the cost of a health reform package that included a so-called ‘public option’ at $871 billion — less than the $900 billion projected by the Obama administration.

Pelosi is pleased as punch that this option is only $871 billion instead of $900 billion?

How stupid does Ms. Pelosi thing we all are anyway. (Well, I guess that’d be a rhetorical question.)


How much have Bush and Obama spent on bailout bills to date?

135 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 8:59:02am

re: #132 subsailor68

How stupid does Ms. Pelosi thing we all are anyway.

I’m not trying to single you out, but these typos always make me laugh when included in a statement about intellect.

136 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:00:08am

re: #135 CommonCents

I’m not trying to single you out, but these typos always make me laugh when included in a statement about intellect.

LOL! Oops! I actually meant to say “how stupid does Ms. Pelosi thimp”

;-)

137 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:00:20am

re: #135 CommonCents

I’m not trying to single you out, but these typos always make me laugh when included in a statement about intellect.

No I know why I never got accepted at Harverd…

138 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:00:56am

re: #133 subsailor68

Great point. Worked on submarines. But, back then we had Admiral Rickover - and nobody messed with him!

;-)

I want my nuclear-powered car!!

139 drcordell  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:01:20am

re: #132 subsailor68

Oh yay!

Pelosi’s ‘Public Option’ Bill Gets Boost From Report Pegging Cost Below Obama’s $900B

How far below? Glad ya asked:

The Congressional Budget Office, reporting back on the cost of two-of-three House bills, pegged the cost of a health reform package that included a so-called ‘public option’ at $871 billion — less than the $900 billion projected by the Obama administration.

Pelosi is pleased as punch that this option is only $871 billion instead of $900 billion?

How stupid does Ms. Pelosi thing we all are anyway. (Well, I guess that’d be a rhetorical question.)

So saving $29 billion dollars is a bad thing. Can you spare a billion brother?

140 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:01:29am

re: #137 ralphieboy

No I know why I never got accepted at Harverd…


…or Yeal.

141 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:01:51am

re: #137 ralphieboy

No I know why I never got accepted at Harverd…

Had I gone to Harvard, I would be a volunteer right now to get out from under my student loans.

142 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:01:58am

re: #124 drcordell

I think the semantics are clouding the true meaning here. Mandatory service in exchange for loan forgiveness doesn’t mean everyone is forced to volunteer. I would interpret that statement to mean if you wish, you may volunteer in exchange for loan forgiveness. The volunteering is only “mandatory” if you want to have your loans forgiven. Seems reasonable to me.

What other levers to modify our behavior will they come up with after that, though?

143 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:02:03am

re: #134 ralphieboy

The bailout bill (TARP) was around $800 billion.
The ARRA of 2009 - also known as the /stimulus porkfest will run to $1.2 trillion (factoring in interest and debt).

The CBO has repeatedly found that the numbers don’t add up for the Democrats’ health care proposals, and that the true costs will be far higher. The Democrats are merely playing with the fringes to claim that this bill is somehow more fiscally responsible.

That’s like getting 20 pounds of crap into a 15 pound bag instead of a 10 pound bag. It’s still a bunch of crap.

144 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:03:40am

re: #143 lawhawk

The bailout bill (TARP) was around $800 billion.
The ARRA of 2009 - also known as the /stimulus porkfest will run to $1.2 trillion (factoring in interest and debt).

The CBO has repeatedly found that the numbers don’t add up for the Democrats’ health care proposals, and that the true costs will be far higher. The Democrats are merely playing with the fringes to claim that this bill is somehow more fiscally responsible.

That’s like getting 20 pounds of crap into a 15 pound bag instead of a 10 pound bag. It’s still a bunch of crap.


Except that the bailout/stimulus package is there to maintain the level of executive bonuses for America’s finance managers, the Public Option runs a chance of actually helping people.

145 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:04:37am

re: #144 ralphieboy

Except that the bailout/stimulus package is there to maintain the level of executive bonuses for America’s finance managers, the Public Option runs a chance of actually helping people.

“runs a chance”, well that’s gotta be worth $871 Billion.

146 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:04:45am

re: #139 drcordell

So, with a few weeks worth of work they found $29 billion? How about we give them a few more weeks. Maybe they’ll find another $20 billion.

A few more weeks after that - another few billion.

The point is, that had we listened to the Democrats and Obama who demanded passage then and there because we’re in a crisis, we’d have had a bloated and wasteful package. Now, Pelosi et al are touting a just slightly less bloated package.

Let them keep working the problem and getting the numbers down. It seems that time is helping reduce the size of the package (but it’s still more than the nation can afford - particularly when 85% of Americans are already covered by public or private insurance plans).

147 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:05:25am

re: #139 drcordell

So saving $29 billion dollars is a bad thing. Can you spare a billion brother?

Heh, you remind me of my wife. She’ll come back from shopping and say “look honey, this dress was originally $200, but it was on sale for $180. I saved $20!”

No, you spent $180.

Might have been better to have saved the entire $180 and looked for a more cost-effective dress.

148 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:06:20am

re: #146 lawhawk

So, with a few weeks worth of work they found $29 billion? How about we give them a few more weeks. Maybe they’ll find another $20 billion.

A few more weeks after that - another few billion.

The point is, that had we listened to the Democrats and Obama who demanded passage then and there because we’re in a crisis, we’d have had a bloated and wasteful package. Now, Pelosi et al are touting a just slightly less bloated package.

Let them keep working the problem and getting the numbers down. It seems that time is helping reduce the size of the package (but it’s still more than the nation can afford - particularly when 85% of Americans are already covered by public or private insurance plans).

And they still project that there will be some uninsured…

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:06:29am

re: #107 Mad Al-Jaffee

What’s wrong with them? Fried yucca is awesome with South American food!

It’s too bland for me. I like a piece, maybe two, but then it just gets overwhelmingly blaaahhh.

150 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:07:03am

re: #147 subsailor68

Heh, you remind me of my wife. She’ll come back from shopping and say “look honey, this dress was originally $200, but it was on sale for $180. I saved $20!”

No, you spent $180.

Might have been better to have saved the entire $180 and looked for a more cost-effective dress.

I regret that I have but one upding to give.

151 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:07:51am

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s too bland for me. I like a piece, maybe two, but then it just gets overwhelmingly blaaahhh.

I like it as a side dish.

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:07:57am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking: Lockerbie Bomber has died


*48 Hour Rule.

‘When your enemy falls do not rejoice.’—Gemara somewhere

‘Wait 48 hours to see if the news is for real.’—Lizards everywhere

153 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:07:59am

re: #144 ralphieboy

Umm… the TARP was meant to unfreeze the credit markets, not to benefit the investment bankers. That it didn’t do so as effectively as the politicians wanted was the result of inept oversight - a factor that Congress didn’t demand better insight when writing the bills.

The stimulus has nothing to with the bankers and finance managers, and everything to do with supporting the public unions who don’t have to see their membership drop because state worker jobs are cut to balance state budgets, which are invariably a mess around the nation. They didn’t create new jobs, but they’ve delayed the inevitable reckoning of bad decisions for years on end where states and the fed spent more than they’ve brought in - and a collapsed real estate market that ended years of all too easy credit.

154 lightspeed  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:11:58am

re: #125 Decatur Deb

Nuke is good, mafia-built containment structures less so. Put the
Navy in charge at the operating level.

I hope you aren’t suggesting that the mafia doesn’t know how to keep things buried?

155 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:13:51am

New Green Day song, pretty much guaranteed to offend everyone:

Youtube Video
156 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:14:15am

Obama strategy: Marginalize most powerful critics


President Obama is working systematically to marginalize the most powerful forces behind the Republican Party, setting loose top White House officials to undermine conservatives in the media, business and lobbying worlds.

With a series of private meetings and public taunts, the White House has targeted the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the biggest-spending pro-business lobbying group in the country; Rush Limbaugh, the country’s most-listened-to conservative commentator; and now, with a new volley of combative rhetoric in recent days, the insurance industry, Wall Street executives and Fox News.

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

157 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:16:42am

re: #156 Ben Hur

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

158 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:16:47am

re: #156 Ben Hur

Obama strategy: Marginalize most powerful critics

I can’t fault it as strategy; it’s a good one, and the same one anyone uses against their opponents.

I guess the only question would be whether this is news or not. It’s a technique that’s older than dirt.

159 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:17:43am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

That’s the unpleasant side of this - that the opposition are the ones tossing the logs on the fire.

160 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:18:22am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

Thus proving the point of the politico’s analysis.

161 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:18:46am

re: #158 SixDegrees

I can’t fault it as strategy; it’s a good one, and the same one anyone uses against their opponents.

I guess the only question would be whether this is news or not. It’s a technique that’s older than dirt.

Yes, not news. It would be news if they empowered their enemies at their own expense.

162 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:19:09am

It’s been a nice thread, but I have to go empty a puppy.

163 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:20:28am

re: #156 Ben Hur

FOX has made their decision and conservatives choose to support it. The rest of the world is not obligated to take Fox seriously. They destroyed their own brand and have nobody to blame but themselves.

164 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:20:59am

Colorado newspaper hiring marijuana critic

There are no words.

165 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:21:02am

The right is stoking the fire, implying that Obama the New Hitler is going to stifle all dissent.

He has simply made a tactical choice: to stop simply ignoring the kind of unfounded, irrational criticism being being directed at him by the lides of Fox News and to return fire.

Something that seems to enjoy broad public support, and even the support of a lot of LGF contributors, yours truly included.

166 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:21:03am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

Let me also add that these two aberrations do not exhaust the possibilities of opposition to Obama.

167 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:21:35am

re: #162 Decatur Deb

It’s been a nice thread, but I have to go empty a puppy.

Wring it out gently to get all the drops.

168 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:21:40am

re: #158 SixDegrees

I can’t fault it as strategy; it’s a good one, and the same one anyone uses against their opponents.

I guess the only question would be whether this is news or not. It’s a technique that’s older than dirt.

It’s news to people who thought Obama was some kind of transformational politician. Turns out, he’s just like the rest of them.

169 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:21:45am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

FOX has made their decision and conservatives choose to support it. The rest of the world is not obligated to take Fox seriously. They destroyed their own brand and have nobody to blame but themselves.

Yet they continue to destroy the competition in the ratings.

Weird.

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:22:18am

re: #164 Ben Hur


Big deal: “High Times” has been in print since the 70’s

171 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:22:21am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

The same could be said of the NYT, Boston Globe and other media outlets who have seen their profits dry up and are cutting staff left and right because business is going elsewhere.

172 rurality  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:23:02am

re: #156 Ben Hur

they are out of the mainstream, their bilge is unworthy of serious discussion. These powerful forces behind the R party are creating a Party of hysterical, dim bulbs. IF they are discredited, perhaps the people that sit rapt in their bubbles of misinformation, will wake up. Nope. In addition to being fearful sheep, they are too lazy or ignorant to look for answers that arent spoon fed or fit their sense of victimhood.

173 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:23:33am

re: #171 lawhawk

The same could be said of the NYT, Boston Globe and other media outlets who have seen their profits dry up and are cutting staff left and right because business is going elsewhere.

I think a big part of the problem with the newspapers is that the Web has more or less destroyed their value as a medium for advertisers.

174 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:23:36am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Obama aides are using their powerful White House platform, combined with techniques honed in the 2008 campaign, to cast some of the most powerful adversaries as out of the mainstream and their criticism as unworthy of serious discussion.

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

No they are not. However the White House cannot use this strategy on everyone who opposes their plans. They will deligitimize themselves.

White House Tactics

175 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:23:45am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Are birthers and Glen Beck rants worthy of serious discussion?

Absolutely. Birthers and Glenn Beck rants give the opposition ammunition. The trick to dealing with opposition is to deny them ammunition.

176 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:24:17am

re: #170 ralphieboy

Big deal: “High Times” has been in print since the 70’s


Printed on the finest rolling papers.

177 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:27:04am

re: #173 Guanxi88

I think a big part of the problem with the newspapers is that the Web has more or less destroyed their value as a medium for advertisers.

They’ve lost some money to web advertising, but print ads still command a considerably higher price.

Where newspapers have really lost money is in their classified ads. Web services like Craig’s List and eBay have decimated the print market.

178 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:27:14am

re: #173 Guanxi88

The one commodity that newspapers and tv outlets have that everyone else doesn’t have is a worldwide network of journalists. Yet, those are the first to be cut - the Times let go another 100 from its newsroom and they and other papers and media outlets keep cutting bureaus. That means that they’re cutting the very people that make the paper operate - both online and in print.

It results in a reduction of news sources that others rely upon - including bloggers.

179 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:27:26am

I’m still hearing from our left leaning lizards (not that there is anything wrong with that) that the Dems MSM fed moonbat minions were fringe exceptions to their party but the Republicans cable fed wingnut warriors reflect their base.

What measurement are you using to come to that conclusion?

180 CommonCents  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:27:30am

I know it is en vogue to dismiss everything Fox News related, but Charles Krauthammer is still a regular guest on the 6:00 news hour, when they talk about real news. Granted alot of the other programming is hysteria but I don’t know of another channel that has as good a panel as the Fox News Hour. I really enjoy Stephen Hayes too.

181 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:27:57am

The Wall Street Journal actually gained subscribers in the last quarter. It’s now larger than USA Today. WSJ…a conservative paper…

Wall Street Journal surpasses USA Today as No. 1

182 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:29:12am

re: #179 DaddyG

I’m still hearing from our left leaning lizards (not that there is anything wrong with that) that the Dems MSM fed moonbat minions were fringe exceptions to their party but the Republicans cable fed wingnut warriors reflect their base.

What measurement are you using to come to that conclusion?

It is standard polemic practice to take the most out-to-lunch supporters of the opposing side and hold them up as paragons of their respective school of thought.

183 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:29:31am

re: #181 KingKenrod

The Wall Street Journal actually gained subscribers in the last quarter. It’s now larger than USA Today. WSJ…a conservative paper…

Wall Street Journal surpasses USA Today as No. 1


What? That shill for the Trilateral Commission? /

184 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:30:39am

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

‘When your enemy falls do not rejoice.’—Gemara somewhere

‘Wait 48 hours to see if the news is for real.’—Lizards everywhere

“When your enemy falls do not rejoice” is from Proverbs 24:17, and refers to a private rival, like a business competitor.

“When the wicked perish, there is happy song.” Proverbs 11:10. This refers to a truly evil person.

185 Solomon2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:31:15am

Don’t let the fringes distract you from the main event: The Obama administration has joined a U.N. effort to restrict religious speech:

The Egyptian ambassador to the U.N., Hisham Badr, wasted no time in heralding the new consensus with the U.S. that “freedom of expression has been sometimes misused” and showing that the “true nature of this right” must yield government limitations.

His U.S. counterpart, Douglas Griffiths, heralded “this joint project with Egypt” and supported the resolution to achieve “tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.”


Note that the 1st Amendment forbids Congress from making laws restricting speech, but says nothing about international agreements like this one.

186 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:31:36am

re: #182 ralphieboy

It is standard polemic practice to take the most out-to-lunch supporters of the opposing side and hold them up as paragons of their respective school of thought.

And it’s now official WH press policy. Well played, Team Obama.

187 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:32:23am

re: #180 CommonCents

I know it is en vogue to dismiss everything Fox News related, but Charles Krauthammer is still a regular guest on the 6:00 news hour, when they talk about real news. Granted alot of the other programming is hysteria but I don’t know of another channel that has as good a panel as the Fox News Hour. I really enjoy Stephen Hayes too.

I’m with you on those two folks. I also think Brit Hume, Bret Baier, Chris Wallace, and even Shep Smith do a credible job. Beck and O’Reilly not so much. Also looking forward to John Stossel. I don’t agree with some of his stuff, but at least he’s an admitted libertarian, and does tend to back up his positions - agree or disagree. He seems a sensible, serious sort of fellow.

188 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:33:15am

re: #186 Guanxi88

And it’s now official WH press policy. Well played, Team Obama.


Except for Glenn Beck, who takes the most wingnut supporters of conervative thought and has them as guests on his show…

189 J.S.  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:33:29am

re: #171 lawhawk

Actually, given the overblown rhetoric, the rants and ravings of any number of television broadcasts (and it’s not just Fox “news”) and also from “the web”, I’m beginning to appreciate print media — as in The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, etc. They at least make an attempt (not always achieved, but at least it’s an attempt) to be fair, balanced and accurate…(television is far too devoted to “the drama” and winning rating races).

190 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:33:36am

re: #180 CommonCents

I tape Red Eye (yes tape, using my vcr) every night and watch it the next day. It’s the only talk show, and Fox show, I watch.

191 Cygnus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:34:29am

re: #23 reloadingisnotahobby

Allright …This time I’m really unplugging my puter!!
My new office has a…WINDOW!!!
A real window…
Snoopy Dance!!!

Or would that be the Penguin (Windows) Dance? /

192 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:34:49am

re: #82 subsailor68
The only hesitation I have with a Federally mandated or sponsored volunteer program is who decided which beneficiaries are worthy of being counted towards volunteer hours. My son had already completed easily over 200+ volunteer hours on various projects helping other Boy Scouts Eagle Projects and on his own service project by the time he was a senior in HS. These projects included landscaping a battered womens shelter, landscaping two gradeshools, building a receiving dock for a food pantry, cooecting first aid supplies for Hurricane relief, cleaning up a public park and yard work for a score of elderly citizens. When asked if any of those counted towards graduation he was told no because they weren’t officially sponsored by the High School.

193 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:35:28am

Hello Morning Lizards!

Penguins?

How are you-all?

194 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:36:18am

re: #179 DaddyG

Can you name a left pundit with the influence of either Beck or Rush going of the rails like that? Can you name and link to dems in congress supporting the the fringes? Can you point me to the large moderate wing of the republican party?

195 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:36:52am

re: #192 DaddyG

The only hesitation I have with a Federally mandated or sponsored volunteer program is who decided which beneficiaries are worthy of being counted towards volunteer hours. My son had already completed easily over 200+ volunteer hours on various projects helping other Boy Scouts Eagle Projects and on his own service project by the time he was a senior in HS. These projects included landscaping a battered womens shelter, landscaping two gradeshools, building a receiving dock for a food pantry, cooecting first aid supplies for Hurricane relief, cleaning up a public park and yard work for a score of elderly citizens. When asked if any of those counted towards graduation he was told no because they weren’t officially sponsored by the High School.

Same problem I have with federally mandated programs. BTW, you are one very, very lucky guy to have a son like yours. Bless him - and as I’m sure you know - he’s gonna do just fine in life!

196 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:37:20am

re: #188 ralphieboy

Except for Glenn Beck, who takes the most wingnut supporters of conervative thought and has them as guests on his show…

This is every bit as loathsome as MSNBC putting forward the bigoted fool Buchanan as the token Conservative on their panels. Nice touch, that, smearing Conservatives by letting one of the most reprehensible figures on the public stage to speak for us.

I’ll add, too, that Beck and Fox don’t function as supports to, or adjuncts of, any government agency or official. The same cannot be said for Ms. Dunn et al.

197 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:37:22am

re: #185 Solomon2

I just saw that in the links. Doesn’t look good at all.

198 Cygnus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:37:33am

re: #54 CommonCents

Slightly OT: Channeling surfing the other day we came across an episode of “world’s dumbest criminals” (or something close to that). A man in Kentucky took duct tape and wrapped his head in it like a mummy to rob a convenience store. The store clerk laughed at him, and a much larger patron ran him down and held him for the police. The video of the criminal with tape removed was priceless.

“Talk about a sticky situation.” —Shaggy

Hopefully this doofus had a lot of hair. OUCH!!

199 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:38:07am

re: #181 KingKenrod

The Wall Street Journal actually gained subscribers in the last quarter. It’s now larger than USA Today. WSJ…a conservative paper…

Wall Street Journal surpasses USA Today as No. 1

Meanwhile the NYT continues to thin the heard…

NYT to axe 100 newsroom jobs

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:38:38am

re: #179 DaddyG

I’m still hearing from our left leaning lizards (not that there is anything wrong with that) that the Dems MSM fed moonbat minions were fringe exceptions to their party but the Republicans cable fed wingnut warriors reflect their base.

What measurement are you using to come to that conclusion?

Who are you talking about here when you say moonbat minions? Medea Benjamin? International ANSWER? Cindy Sheehan?

201 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:38:48am

re: #192 DaddyG gradeschools - PIMF

202 SteveC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:39:19am

Good Afternoon, Lizards!

October 21, 1805: British Warships under the command of Admiral Horatio Nelson defeat a French and Spanish fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar. Nelson is killed in battle. Rather than the traditional burial at sea, Nelson is stuffed into a barrel of Brandy and returned home for burial.

There is NO truth to the rumor that when they opened the barrel in England, it was half empty and the corpse had a smile on his face!

203 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:40:05am

I do volunteer work with an organization that provides apartments to abused women and their kids here in town. They have three buildings, each with six three bedroom apartments, if it is needed they will also rent space elsewhere. They provide counseling, help the women find work or go back to school, and also provide food, clothing, and furniture. They also have a “thrift store” where people can donate items to help support the shelters and that we get most of the clothing and furniture for the residents from.

I deal with the residents as little as is possible because I don’t want to get sucked into their lives and their problems. Lord knows I might end up doing something rash to one of their abusers if I heard all the details. All I do is clean and paint apartments between tenants, fix cabinets, faucets, and help set up furniture. Sometimes we help residents who are ready to move into their own place move their stuff and get set up at their new location (they get to keep any furniture or appliances we supplied them with).

Sometimes scrubbing floors and bathtubs can be a real bummer and something you just don’t want to do. But when the place is sparkling clean and close to brand new looking, with decent furniture and a kitchen well stocked with canned and dry goods, you know it was worth your time. More so for the kids a lot of times than for the mother, many have never place that was so nice, or where they had a bedroom of their own. That makes it worth it for me to keep going back, even when it does mean scrubbing other peoples toilets…

:)

204 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:41:16am

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

Who are you talking about here when you say moonbat minions? Medea Benjamin? International ANSWER? Cindy Sheehan?


Good start, but the more mainstream include - Al Frankin, Harry Reed, John Murtha, Cyntha McKinney, Code Pink, moveon.org and a more than a few Obama mentors, advisors and campaign workers with an underlying disdain for the red state flyover country hicks.

205 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:41:49am

re: #196 Guanxi88

You know, republicans tried to make people think Zell Miller speaks for the dems, or Alan Colmes does. But no one would ever buy that, because they’re ostracized and despised on the left. This is not at all true for Buchanan. Do you remember Charles’ comment on exactly this a few threads back?

206 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:42:07am

re: #204 DaddyG

Good start, but the more mainstream include - Al Frankin, Harry Reed, John Murtha, Cyntha McKinney, Code Pink, moveon.org and a more than a few Obama mentors, advisors and campaign workers with an underlying disdain for the red state flyover country hicks.

I’d probably remove Code Pink from the list; they just strike me as a mental-health advocacy group gone horribly wrong.

207 Cygnus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:42:56am

re: #138 SixDegrees

I want my nuclear-powered car!!

I want Mr. Fusion and a hover conversion for my car.

208 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:43:51am

re: #194 suchislife

Can you name a left pundit with the influence of either Beck or Rush going of the rails like that? Can you name and link to dems in congress supporting the the fringes? Can you point me to the large moderate wing of the republican party?


Air America was a well supported and funded attempt including the Honorable Al Franken of Minnesota. Just because it didn’t get the advertising dollars that Rush and Fox News have landed doesn’t make it fringe where the Democrats were concerned.

209 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:43:52am

re: #204 DaddyG

That’s quite a collection of names that you have there! So you consider Harry Reid a fire breathing hard left moonbat?

210 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:44:35am

re: #205 suchislife

You know, republicans tried to make people think Zell Miller speaks for the dems, or Alan Colmes does. But no one would ever buy that, because they’re ostracized and despised on the left. This is not at all true for Buchanan. Do you remember Charles’ comment on exactly this a few threads back?

Zell Miller speaks for Zell Miller, Colmes was Colmes. I daresay they’d have to reach into Medea Benjamin territory to find a leftist counter-part to Buchanan, but even that would fail, as they share a common anti-zionism.

211 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:46:13am

re: #208 DaddyG

Actually, money, guests and viewer numbers are exactely what makes something fringe. Fox is the most widely seen “news” channel. Air America is nothing next to that. By the way, I’m not up to date on this: what are the main objections to Franken?

212 SteveC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:46:33am

re: #207 Cygnus

I want my nuclear-powered car!!

Atomic batteries to power. Turbines to speed… - Robin

213 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:46:34am

re: #194 suchislife

Can you name a left pundit with the influence of either Beck or Rush going of the rails like that? Can you name and link to dems in congress supporting the the fringes? Can you point me to the large moderate wing of the republican party?


To be very clear I’m not defending the shrill tones of the party out of power right now. I think there is a lot of jostling to see who will emerge on top and that makes things worse. But the position that the Dems are somehow on the moral high road when it comes to their bedfellows is laughable.

214 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:47:35am

re: #211 suchislife

Actually, money, guests and viewer numbers are exactely what makes something fringe.

I think that a better measure of fringiness is the degree to which a given body of beliefs represents the core beliefs of the continuum of sane persons on a given side.

215 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:48:02am

re: #209 suchislife

That’s quite a collection of names that you have there! So you consider Harry Reid a fire breathing hard left moonbat?


Fire breathing, no. Influencial, powerful, corrupt and moonbatty, yes.

216 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:49:20am

re: #214 Guanxi88

Right. But if you only prove certain opinions in a very small group, then that means that those opinions are probably fringe opinions. Otherwise a larger group would also support them.

217 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:50:13am

re: #211 suchislife

Actually, money, guests and viewer numbers are exactely what makes something fringe. Fox is the most widely seen “news” channel. Air America is nothing next to that. By the way, I’m not up to date on this: what are the main objections to Franken?

Knee jerk opposition to anything on the right. Snarky dismissal of serious political discussion. Borderline libel disguised as comedy.

In fact Franken and Beck are two sides of a very similar coin.

Of course Franken is now an “elected” (possible selected) government official while Beck is and always will be a talk show host.

218 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:50:54am

re: #216 suchislife

Right. But if you only prove certain opinions in a very small group, then that means that those opinions are probably fringe opinions. Otherwise a larger group would also support them.

And, remember, it’s news to the MSM because it is the exception, not the rule. Ratings; Ad revenues; Pulizer; oh my!

219 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:51:13am

The interesting thing to watch is the hard right simultaneously invoke the ghost of Reagan at every turn whilst, apparently, having no idea what he did when in any office he held.

He would be too Liberal for that crowd.

220 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:51:30am

re: #216 suchislife

Right. But if you only prove certain opinions in a very small group, then that means that those opinions are probably fringe opinions. Otherwise a larger group would also support them.

I’d suggest that part of the overall success of FoxNews has less to do with Beckism, and more to do with the overall quality of the product they’re putting out.

221 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:52:05am

re: #215 DaddyG

Fire breathing, no. Influencial, powerful, corrupt and moonbatty, yes.

I would say: Influencial, completely ineffective, corrupt. Doesn’t moonbatty mean either hard left or left and espousing conspiracy theories and nonsense?

222 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:52:56am

re: #221 suchislife

I would say: Influencial, completely ineffective, corrupt. Doesn’t moonbatty mean either hard left or left and espousing conspiracy theories and nonsense?

Left and bat-sh!t crazy.

223 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:53:33am

re: #220 Guanxi88

I would also add that their ratings may have more to do with their being an alternative populist voice to other outlets rather than being “conservative”. They are news/entertainers no doubt but that is something they have in common with the other cable and MSM news outlets.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:55:03am

re: #204 DaddyG

Good start, but the more mainstream include - Al Frankin, Harry Reed, John Murtha, Cyntha McKinney, Code Pink, moveon.org and a more than a few Obama mentors, advisors and campaign workers with an underlying disdain for the red state flyover country hicks.

OK, I’m not addressing ‘underlying disdain’, given the outright scorn shown for the blue state chardonnay-swilling swells who just don’t care about this country and its small-town values at the RNC.

Franken, Reed and Murtha are actual elected office-holders, so they do fall into a separate category of ‘official’, although I will match certain Republicans against them for teh crazy any day.

I would say that McKinney, and CodePink, fall into the same category as Sheehan, et al. Medea Benjamin is CodePink, btw.

Were/are these groups influential? I would argue that Sheehan, McKinney, etc. never had the kind of influence that Beck and Limbaugh have. They don’t have shows, they don’t have books on the best-seller list, and the Democratic party certainly never showed them the kind of deference that Limbaugh, say, routinely gets. CodePink picketed Feinstein, Boxer and Pelosi’s homes, and there was zip response. I wonder what would happen if Rush or Glenn decided to camp out in front of major Republican’s residences to shame them into changing policy? McKinney has, as far as I can tell, no influence at all outside of the college radical’s circuit. Maybe in local politics.

Move.on probably came closest to mainstreamaninity.

Tell me what you think. I can only see this from inside my own perspective, but from here, the right-wing crazies seem to be burrowing deeper than the left-wing ones. Tell me what you see.

225 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:56:33am

re: #217 DaddyG

Knee jerk opposition to anything on the right. Snarky dismissal of serious political discussion. Borderline libel disguised as comedy

To me, that is hard partisanship. It’s a part of politics I accept, if the borderline is respected and it is not an elected official. But that’s not what Beck does. Beck lies. He libels. He demonizes his opponents. He is incoherent. He is racist. I consider this a false equivilancy for the sake of “balance”.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:57:58am

re: #208 DaddyG

Air America was a well supported and funded attempt including the Honorable Al Franken of Minnesota. Just because it didn’t get the advertising dollars that Rush and Fox News have landed doesn’t make it fringe where the Democrats were concerned.

But I thought the Democrats controlled the MSM, and we got whatever we wanted?

/

227 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:58:26am

re: #220 Guanxi88

Well, if that were true, then they should be the worst rated news channel in the history of news channels. There is nothing “quality” about Fox.

There was a time when the news part was informative, now it is simply an echo chamber that feeds the beast with intentional misinformation.

228 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:00:02am

re: #225 suchislife

To be honest, it sounds like you hate (that’s how it comes across) him for hurting your feelings. Well. I don’t have that much hate to spare, after I spent it on people who ruin other peoples’ lives.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:00:03am

re: #213 DaddyG

To be very clear I’m not defending the shrill tones of the party out of power right now. I think there is a lot of jostling to see who will emerge on top and that makes things worse. But the position that the Dems are somehow on the moral high road when it comes to their bedfellows is laughable.

I wouldn’t say moral high road. No one gets the moral high road in politics. But I am concerned about the damage to the whole country if the Republican party is overrun by some of these characters.

Similarly, I wish the Democrats would push some of our nutjobs farther out.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:01:00am

re: #215 DaddyG

Fire breathing, no. Influencial, powerful, corrupt and moonbatty, yes.

Moonbatty how?

231 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:01:13am

re: #219 PAUL_MACDONALD

The interesting thing to watch is the hard right simultaneously invoke the ghost of Reagan at every turn whilst, apparently, having no idea what he did when in any office he held.

He would be too Liberal for that crowd.

Sad, but very, very, true. :(
+1

232 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

Tell me what you think. I can only see this from inside my own perspective, but from here, the right-wing crazies seem to be burrowing deeper than the left-wing ones. Tell me what you see.

That is my whole point. The right wing crazies seem louder right now because they are out of power and making noise. This does not mean they have won the hearts and minds of the populace who want limited infererence in their lives and respect for all beliefs and creeds.

If anyone on the left is asking me to disavow conservative talk hosts and their bad behavior (which I often do) then I feel it is right to ask them not to portray them as “main stream” or representative of middle-right thinkers.

If they claim the Democrats were any less radicalized I would ask them to provide me the proof that there was any extensive effort to disavow their more radical voices by the center as Reagan,Bush1,Bush2 Derangement Syndrome ran rampant for decades.

Evidence suggests Democrats elect their radicals to public office while Republicans relegate them to pundit status.

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:01:59am

re: #219 PAUL_MACDONALD

The interesting thing to watch is the hard right simultaneously invoke the ghost of Reagan at every turn whilst, apparently, having no idea what he did when in any office he held.

He would be too Liberal for that crowd.

They admire his power and charisma. They don’t understand his ideas.

234 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:03:35am

re: #227 PAUL_MACDONALD

Well, if that were true, then they should be the worst rated news channel in the history of news channels. There is nothing “quality” about Fox.

There was a time when the news part was informative, now it is simply an echo chamber that feeds the beast with intentional misinformation.

Quality is what the customer wants.

235 pdc_lgf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:04:34am

re: #233 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think that Ronald Reagan, once he was president, was first and foremost a politician?

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:07:42am

re: #232 DaddyG

That is my whole point. The right wing crazies seem louder right now because they are out of power and making noise. This does not mean they have won the hearts and minds of the populace who want limited infererence in their lives and respect for all beliefs and creeds.

If anyone on the left is asking me to disavow conservative talk hosts and their bad behavior (which I often do) then I feel it is right to ask them not to portray them as “main stream” or representative of middle-right thinkers.

If they claim the Democrats were any less radicalized I would ask them to provide me the proof that there was any extensive effort to disavow their more radical voices by the center as Reagan,Bush1,Bush2 Derangement Syndrome ran rampant for decades.

Evidence suggests Democrats elect their radicals to public office while Republicans relegate them to pundit status.

I think we have a different view of what ‘radical’ is, but I would like to put up Michelle Bachmann against Al Franken.

Please respond to my points, though. Cynthia McKinney and Medea Benjamin don’t have talk shows, and McKinney, thank God, got her ass voted out of office. They have no real influence over the Democratic party, whereas the leader of the Republican party had to back down when he challenged The Rush. Am I wrong to see a distinction here?

237 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:08:26am

re: #234 Guanxi88

Which is why people eat fast food. Which is why the highest grossing film of all time is Titanic. Which is why the USA has a trade deficit with China, of all places. People could give a crap about quality.

The BBC world service is, in every way imaginable, superior to Fox news. It defines quality, and yet no one in the USA watches it.

238 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:08:42am

re: #225 suchislife

To me, that is hard partisanship. It’s a part of politics I accept, if the borderline is respected and it is not an elected official. But that’s not what Beck does. Beck lies. He libels. He demonizes his opponents. He is incoherent. He is racist. I consider this a false equivilancy for the sake of “balance”.


Of course Franken, McKinney, Frank, Pelosi, Murtha, moveon.org, the Obama campaign, Reed, Code Pink, ELF, Greenpeace, Jesse Jackson, et al. never lie, demonize, engage in racism or cross the line. ///

I was not engaging in equivelency I was asking left-leaning lizards why they characterize bad behavior on the part of the Republican fringe and attempt to portray it as mainstream Republican thought while they seem to excuse similar behavior in their own party as fringe?

Again the question remains- how do you measure these things and find such a disparity between parties? Given some of your questions I suspect it is a case of not wanting to see our own warts.

Other than Charles and a few affiliated bloggers holding the rights feet to the flame I don’t see anyone else willing to take on their own party. I don’t know of an equivalent movement on the left.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:09:09am

re: #235 pdc_lgf

Do you think that Ronald Reagan, once he was president, was first and foremost a politician?

In what sense? My first response is to say ‘yes’, but I don’t know what that may imply.

240 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:09:46am

re: #232 DaddyG

If anyone on the left is asking me to disavow conservative talk hosts and their bad behavior (which I often do) then I feel it is right to ask them not to portray them as “main stream” or representative of middle-right thinkers.

But DaddyG, you are not “main stream” of the conservative movement right now. Look at the right Blogosphere.

If they claim the Democrats were any less radicalized I would ask them to provide me the proof that there was any extensive effort to disavow their more radical voices by the center as Reagan,Bush1,Bush2 Derangement Syndrome ran rampant for decades.

I suggest we stick to Bush2. Critics of Bush2 were routinely explicitly or implicitly called traitors on all the major networks and in the print media. They didn’t need to be disavowed, because they had no influence or voice until more and more failures turned up, and Bush supporters finally shrank to a 20 % minority. Even then, few of the maligned critics were rehabilitated, and the later retracted bashing of the critics cost no pundit his or her job or even credibility in the village.

Evidence suggests Democrats elect their radicals to public office while Republicans relegate them to pundit status.

Well sure, if Reid is a lefty.

241 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:09:56am

re: #237 PAUL_MACDONALD

Which is why people eat fast food. Which is why the highest grossing film of all time is Titanic. Which is why the USA has a trade deficit with China, of all places. People could give a crap about quality.

The BBC world service is, in every way imaginable, superior to Fox news. It defines quality, and yet no one in the USA watches it.

Fox has to turn a profit, a constraint not quite so stringently imposed upon the BEEB.

As for their quality of reportage, on certain matters, indisputable, on others, subject to some controversy.

242 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:09:58am

re: #155 Thanos

Good Stuff. I really like the new album.

William

243 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:10:13am

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

I think we have a different view of what ‘radical’ is, but I would like to put up Michelle Bachmann against Al Franken.

Please respond to my points, though. Cynthia McKinney and Medea Benjamin don’t have talk shows, and McKinney, thank God, got her ass voted out of office. They have no real influence over the Democratic party, whereas the leader of the Republican party had to back down when he challenged The Rush. Am I wrong to see a distinction here?

I think it has to do with the money backing the person. Rush probably has more money backing him than McKinney, Benjamin, Reid & Pelosi combined.

Or it could just be his charismatic personality?

244 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:10:37am

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

Moonbatty how?


Premature reports of our failure to win in Iran and Afganistan. In essence providing free enemy propaganda while our troops butts were on the line. I have a very hard time forgiving his comments about that.

245 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:10:44am

re: #235 pdc_lgf

Do you think that Ronald Reagan, once he was president, was first and foremost a politician?

Reagan was not an ideologue that had fixed and unchanging views, contrary to popular opinion. Once in office he was willing try things, those that didn’t work he discarded and tried something else. IMHO Reagan was very much a pragmatist on most issues, which is why I voted for him, twice.

246 SteveC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:11:02am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

But I thought the Democrats controlled the MSM, and we got whatever we wanted?

/

I’m quickly coming to the conclusion that no one controls the press. The real problem is that they can’t control themselves.

247 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:12:26am

re: #246 SteveC

I’m quickly coming to the conclusion that no one controls the press. The real problem is that they can’t control themselves.

No one should control the press. They have their own set of values—which used to mean something—I guess.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:12:40am

re: #243 ggt

I think it has to do with the money backing the person. Rush probably has more money backing him than McKinney, Benjamin, Reid & Pelosi combined.

Or it could just be his charismatic personality?

So they do have more influence because they’re richer and more charismatic? Oy. COnfused now.

249 pdc_lgf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:14:12am

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

In whatever sense you care to adhere to. Whatever your estimate of the situation is. I’m not playing gotcha. I’m curious about what Ronald Reagan represents to people. He seems to have become quite sanctified with the passage of time.

Cards on the table: I think he was a politician. I think he saw his first obligation as doing what needed doing, according to his good-faith understanding. I didn’t and don’t agree with the guy. For me, it never reached level of ideas. It was about policies.

250 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:14:52am

Ok, re: #238 DaddyG

Of course Franken, McKinney, Frank, Pelosi, Murtha, moveon.org, the Obama campaign, Reed, Code Pink, ELF, Greenpeace, Jesse Jackson, et al. never lie, demonize, engage in racism or cross the line.

What? Were did I say that? I ask you what’s wrong with Franken, you answered, and I said, well that doesn’t sound so bad. The rest you made up.

I was asking left-leaning lizards why they characterize bad behavior on the part of the Republican fringe and attempt to portray it as mainstream Republican thought while they seem to excuse similar behavior in their own party as fringe?

I answered this exact point. I’m not going to repeat it, because it was pretty clear.

Other than Charles and a few affiliated bloggers holding the rights feet to the flame I don’t see anyone else willing to take on their own party. I don’t know of an equivalent movement on the left.

Which left blogs do you regularily read?

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:14:59am

re: #244 DaddyG

Premature reports of our failure to win in Iran and Afganistan. In essence providing free enemy propaganda while our troops butts were on the line. I have a very hard time forgiving his comments about that.

OK. I do not see eye to eye with you, and I would argue that there’s a distinction between moonbattiness and policy disagreement, but I can see where your problems with him come from.

252 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:15:38am

re: #241 Guanxi88

Fox has to turn a profit, a constraint not quite so stringently imposed upon the BEEB.

As for their quality of reportage, on certain matters, indisputable, on others, subject to some controversy.

Now, I don’t know if you noticed there, but you pointed out exactly why the BBC world service is superior to Fox News.

Precisely because they are not beholden to special interests and are not required to be profitable (even then, I do pay for it via a cable package) means that they can plausibly separate themselves from favouritism or accusations of bias.

Fox has to turn a profit. It doesn’t matter if they break a huge story or claim that Bat Boy was found. The bottom line is all that matters, and that’s why it has become the cesspool it has become. I remember when Fox was a viable counter to CNN. Now, it is literally unwatchable.

253 SteveC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:15:47am

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

So they do have more influence because they’re richer and more charismatic? Oy. COnfused now.

I can conjugate that verb. I was confused; I am confused; I will continue to be confused!

Thought I lived in the Palmetto State. I actually live in the State of Confusion!

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:17:38am

re: #249 pdc_lgf

In whatever sense you care to adhere to. Whatever your estimate of the situation is. I’m not playing gotcha. I’m curious about what Ronald Reagan represents to people. He seems to have become quite sanctified with the passage of time.

Cards on the table: I think he was a politician. I think he saw his first obligation as doing what needed doing, according to his good-faith understanding. I didn’t and don’t agree with the guy. For me, it never reached level of ideas. It was about policies.

I hated Reagan’s social policies, and have mixed feelings about his foreign policy. I think he largely acted in good faith, had undeniable charisma, and a real admiration for, and faith in, the American people that I wish some folks would bring back. But I was very young during his presidency, so I suspect that some of what I know or think about him is more my parents’ opinion than mine.

I think he was a very good politician, in many ways.

255 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:17:45am

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

So they do have more influence because they’re richer and more charismatic? Oy. COnfused now.

it’s a conundrum.

256 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:18:01am

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
I see actual legislators acting in ways that I feel will harm our country and limit our freedoms in the long run (massive debt, entitlements, divisiveness) . They may be voted out but they also hold a great deal of influence in everything from policy decisions to governance. I do tend to hold politicians to a higher standard than talk show hosts, reporters or entertainers. Which is why you will see me comment on their actions more than the press that covers them.

Even the party leaders (Steele) are not office holders that can codify their opinions into law. And I don’t argue against the fact that he needs to grow a pair of Buckley’s and start purging the wingnuts and slapping down the pundits to make the party more respectable and effective.

257 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:18:21am

re: #252 PAUL_MACDONALD

Now, I don’t know if you noticed there, but you pointed out exactly why the BBC world service is superior to Fox News.

Precisely because they are not beholden to special interests and are not required to be profitable (even then, I do pay for it via a cable package) means that they can plausibly separate themselves from favouritism or accusations of bias.

Fox has to turn a profit. It doesn’t matter if they break a huge story or claim that Bat Boy was found. The bottom line is all that matters, and that’s why it has become the cesspool it has become. I remember when Fox was a viable counter to CNN. Now, it is literally unwatchable.

Conversely, a state-supported enterprise has no special interests to which it might be beholden?

258 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:21:30am

re: #257 Guanxi88

not when they are the peoples bet to oout last the state.

the BBC knows that the government changes - so they can’t go too far one way or the other.

Conversely the Government knows it can’t mess too much with the Beeb as the public hold it in very high regard.

259 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:22:55am

re: #258 wozzablog

not when they are the peoples bet to oout last the state.

the BBC knows that the government changes - so they can’t go too far one way or the other.

Conversely the Government knows it can’t mess too much with the Beeb as the public hold it in very high regard.

There might be something to that - given the track-record of the BBC.

I’ll say this much on it, then - it works for them, but wouldn’t for us.

(And their Mid-East coverage is awful.)

260 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:23:50am

re: #240 suchislife

But DaddyG, you are not “main stream” of the conservative movement right now. Look at the right Blogosphere.

The fact that you are looking for mainstream anything in the blogosphere say volumes. I’ve answered your questions but the only conclusion I can draw from your comments is the politicians and pundits you like don’t seem as bad to you as the one’s you dislike. Although I will admit that being blind to our own faults is a non-partisan and almost universal condition.

I guess that is my cue to politely agree to disagree.

Thanks for the dialogue!

261 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:25:36am

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

I think we have a different view of what ‘radical’ is, but I would like to put up Michelle Bachmann against Al Franken.

I think the term radical can be used with Congress Critters if you ask yourself does Franken or Bachmann seem to operate in reality while doing their job?

So far Franken seems to not be radical, though very much a progressive liberal, while Bachmann makes statements all the time that require the daily use of a tinfoil!hat to actually believe.

262 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:28:19am

re: #261 webevintage

I think the term radical can be used with Congress Critters if you ask yourself does Franken or Bachmann seem to operate in reality while doing their job?

So far Franken seems to not be radical, though very much a progressive liberal, while Bachmann makes statements all the time that require the daily use of a tinfoil!hat to actually believe.

I don’t think radicalism is reducible to whackiness - I’ve known some very radical thinkers who were quite level-headed, left & right.

263 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:29:03am

re: #257 Guanxi88

Conversely, a state-supported enterprise has no special interests to which it might be beholden?

Well, no they don’t. In a democratic society, a state run media organization is beholden to the citizenry as a whole. It’s an interesting dynamic, but because they don’t want the appearance of impropriety, they are usually harder on the government.

It is possible to tell any news story from a left wing or right wing perspective and not exclude information that is pertinent to the story. Fox does that all the time simply because of their intended audience.

Their Prime Time lineup is a wasteland of poorly written and factually challenged dreck designed to pander to people with a similar worldview. They make no attempt to actually inform people. All they want is eyeballs. Challenging the viewpoints of their viewers inspires those people to stop watching.

BBC doesn’t care if you watch or not.

264 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:29:43am

re: #238 DaddyG
Ouch a downding? You win.

265 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:30:50am

re: #259 Guanxi88

There might be something to that - given the track-record of the BBC.

I’ll say this much on it, then - it works for them, but wouldn’t for us.

(And their Mid-East coverage is awful.)

re: #263 PAUL_MACDONALD

Well, no they don’t. In a democratic society, a state run media organization is beholden to the citizenry as a whole. It’s an interesting dynamic, but because they don’t want the appearance of impropriety, they are usually harder on the government.

It is possible to tell any news story from a left wing or right wing perspective and not exclude information that is pertinent to the story. Fox does that all the time simply because of their intended audience.

Their Prime Time lineup is a wasteland of poorly written and factually challenged dreck designed to pander to people with a similar worldview. They make no attempt to actually inform people. All they want is eyeballs. Challenging the viewpoints of their viewers inspires those people to stop watching.

BBC doesn’t care if you watch or not.

266 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:32:03am

re: #265 Guanxi88

IIRC, the BBC get’s their funding from a sort of tax on TV sets and they have no real competition.

267 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:33:20am

Have a great afternoon all!

268 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:35:11am

re: #266 ggt

sky news and ITN are two other very well respected UK News Gathering and reporting organisations.

269 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:48:45am

re: #268 wozzablog

sky news and ITN are two other very well respected UK News Gathering and reporting organisations.

Sky News is a murdoch outfit - best not to mention them.

270 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:51:31am

the Sky News brand is fiercely independent - Murdoch would like to make them more like Faux - but the Editorial and Jorunalistic staff have brains, guts and integrity.
Former beauty queens masquerading as hard news anchors are at a minimum.

Sky News is News People.

271 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:27:14am

And how do we objectively deterine influence? By the number of of viewers/listeners? What percentage of those folks are just be turning in for the entertainment value or the the background chatter?

Obama is in no position to “shut down” Fox or any other media outlet. But he chose to take them to task for what they are doing, which is lowering the standard of reporting to that of rumor and fear mongering.

272 PAUL_MACDONALD  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:31:42am

re: #268 wozzablog

sky news and ITN are two other very well respected UK News Gathering and reporting organisations.

Sre: #271 ralphieboy

And how do we objectively deterine influence? By the number of of viewers/listeners? What percentage of those folks are just be turning in for the entertainment value or the the background chatter?

The turnout at the teaparties might be a good starting point…

273 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #272 PAUL_MACDONALD

Tea party turnout? You mean the 2 million as reported by Fox, or 70,000 who actually showed?

274 ssn697  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:21:33pm

To be fair, Reagan was a well known socialist commie.

That’s why I voted for him in ‘80 ;-)

275 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:32:05pm

re: #270 wozzablog

Or just watch the BBC… I don’t see any reason not to look any further than them.

276 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:43pm

re: #275 XopXproxyX

Or just watch the BBC… I don’t see any reason not to look any further than them.


oops

277 acacia  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:39:15pm

I don’t get this one at all. Beck is clearly not against volunteer efforts and states so up front. Beck is criticizing, rightly, the big brother type of approach. Even that wouldn’t be so bad but as other bloggers have pointed out the iParticipate website promotes Obama talking points. For example on health care if you try to find a volunteer opportunity, no matter what zip you put in the second item is a video to help you refute the “false” information of health care reform critics. Is this volunteering or politicization? The Reagan program was to honor volunteer efforts which is entirely different and something everyone agrees is good.

278 moski3  Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:04:50am

re: #277 acacia

Thank you for knowing the facts!


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