Video: Raw ACORN Tapes Tell a Different Story

PoliticsApril 2010 • Views: 3,227

If you didn’t see this segment of Rachel Maddow’s show a few days ago you really should watch it now, because it demonstrates, with specific examples, how those infamous ACORN sting videos were carefully edited to obscure the reality of what happened in those offices.

I know there still quite a few LGF readers who don’t want to believe the videos were deceptive, but even if you think ACORN was founded by Lucifer to destroy America, it’s time to admit that these videos (and their accompanying public relations campaign) were crafted to fool the media and the public. Every independent investigation has concluded that ACORN committed no crimes in these cases — and that the O’Keefe-Giles-Breitbart videos were heavily edited and untrustworthy.

This is not a triumph for “citizen journalism,” it’s an object example of unethical ambush journalism, combined with selective editing and a deceptive PR campaign to achieve a partisan political end. It’s “ends justify means” smear-job politics, taken to a sleazy extreme.

Maddow focuses on some of the most egregious moments:

FLV Video

Jump to bottom

154 comments

prairiefire Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:25:33am

The marvelous Madame Maddow. Thanks for posting this, Charles.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:28:16am

I wish she had organized that segment better. The first 3:30 is mostly background and stuff about the pimp costume. Skip to 3:30 if you want to go directly to the red meat. There's no doubt about it, the tapes as Breitbart presented them are fake. He also lied about not having the unedited footage. He swapped it to the DA for immunity.

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:29:56am

Anyone referring to O'Keefe as a journalist or a videographer or anything similar from now on gains my total contempt.

And once again, I can't believe I fell for this crap. I should have known better.

Whatever your feelings on ACORN in general, this was a criminal conspiracy to smear the organization, and it worked. Oh brother, did it work. Our congress passed a bill-- an unconstitutional bill-- against this organization, based on the lies of criminals.

And many celebrated when they did so.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:30:21am

Her summary was rather depressing: no matter how spurious and egregious this piece of "investigative journalism" turned out to be, it did its job. ACORN is no longer in business.

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:32:36am

Speaking of smears, Tim Blair's at it again. I saw referrals starting yesterday - he posted a one line slap at me about the Gingrich dog whistle post, but today it looks like he's greatly expanded it with a cherry-picking romp through the LGF archives.

Classic sleaze.

blueraven Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:34:52am

Maybe someone should go "undercover" on the chamber of commerce.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:36:03am

re: #3 Obdicut

And once again, I can't believe I fell for this crap. I should have known better

We all fall for bogus stories from time to time. It happens. The problem is I haven't seen a single right wing blog or Fox News acknowledge they were had. That's a very serious problem. The right is fueled by bogus information and conspiracy theories. They are not a viable real world political force at this point.

Randall Gross Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:39:31am

The breitbart thing is like the time CBS or someone else was sending burqa clad people to Nascar races to see if they could get a racist / religious bigotry rise out of the crowd. The lie there was the burqa on a non muslim CBS reporter, the Lies in the O'keefe - Breitbart baiting video are more numerous and egregious.

I hate even mentioning the Nascar incident btw because whiny andy will now use it in his litany of "See!?! See!?! They do it too!" whenever he gets questioned on his yellow tabloid techniques.

Stanghazi Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:39:55am

And Breitbart's appalling new gig? Calling Rep. Lewis a liar.

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:42:27am

re: #8 Thanos

The breitbart thing is like the time CBS or someone else was sending burqa clad people to Nascar races to see if they could get a racist / religious bigotry rise out of the crowd. The lie there was the burqa on a non muslim CBS reporter, the Lies in the O'keefe - Breitbart baiting video are more numerous and egregious.

I hate even mentioning the Nascar incident btw because whiny andy will now use it in his litany of "See!?! See!?! They do it too!" whenever he gets questioned on his yellow tabloid techniques.

Yeah, it was similar to that burqa stunt, true. But as sleazy as that was, at least CBS didn't selectively edit the videos to make the subjects look worse.

Four More Tears Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:43:57am

re: #3 Obdicut

And many celebrated when they did so.

I'm pretty sure a lot of them still are. Acorn's evil, you see, so the ends justify the means. There are probably some on this very board who are happy to see the damage this has done to Acorn.

darthstar Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:44:12am

re: #3 Obdicut

And once again, I can't believe I fell for this crap. I should have known better.

I have to say, I never believed it for a moment. The whole "pimp & ho" story was too 1976 to be believable. And the Super-fly pimp costume was a dead giveaway to anyone with half a brain (which, by default, excludes the entirety of the Fox Noise machine)...nobody with a high school education would have been stupid enough to believe them if they'd walked into the office looking like that...and they obviously didn't.

I think ACORN should file a civil suit against O'Keefe, Fox, and anyone else who pushed this false story (hello, Brietbart). Let's see how long O'Keefe's parents will foot the bill for that legal challenge. And those who got fired from ACORN because of these fake videos would definitely benefit from a class-action suit against Fox & friends (not the show, the people described above).

Gus Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:46:06am

Fraud, lies, and collusion: Fox News. They're now operating under the same standards as the sleazy Murdoch tabloid the New York Post.

reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:46:13am

Millions were SUCKERED" with this one!
I'm one!
Still think Acorn is a con job on the American tax payer...
As is Congress..
Freddies Fanny..etc..etc...

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:49:26am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

there should have been NO background on the pimp costume. i can put together a better pimp costume in 30 seconds.

now...mind you...what that says about some of the tackier parts of my wardrobe is a discussion for another day-

Boogberg Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:51:08am

I always liked Jerry Brown. :D

Isn't he running for Governor again?

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:51:28am

"it’s an object example of unethical ambush journalism, combined with selective editing and a deceptive PR campaign to achieve a partisan political end."

Which worked like oil in an engine.

darthstar Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:51:40am

re: #16 Boogberg

I always liked Jerry Brown. :D

Isn't he running for Governor again?

And he'll win.

blueraven Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:51:51am

The thing is, if they had portrayed ACORN in a fair and honest way, they might have made a difference in the overall operation of the group. Obviously ACORN had many problems. The unedited videos still reveal some disturbing practices and a real need to train their workers better.

But that wasn't their intent. The intent was to destroy by any means. Sadly, it worked.

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:52:23am

Sheesh! Why didn't these wingnuts think of just getting Bush to sign an international treaty banning ACORN when he had the chance? Every tea-partier knows that international treaties can supersede the Constitution after all.
h/t Kilgore Trout

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:52:36am

re: #15 Aceofwhat?

there should have been NO background on the pimp costume. i can put together a better pimp costume in 30 seconds.

now...mind you...what that says about some of the tackier parts of my wardrobe is a discussion for another day-

That's because your pimp reference extends beyond reruns of Starsky and Hutch.

fizzlogic Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:54:27am

Practically every RW viewer/listener is predisposed to believe anything that characterizes Dems as evil, crooked, marxists, nazis. So the RW propaganda media machine fills their need. It's incessant. And provides a way to divert attention away from scrutinizing real world problems with failed conservative solutions--tax cuts and deregulation. The RW media is nothing more than cancer upon this nation.

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:55:05am

re: #19 blueraven

The thing is, if they had portrayed ACORN in a fair and honest way, they might have made a difference in the overall operation of the group. Obviously ACORN had many problems. The unedited videos still reveal some disturbing practices and a real need to train their workers better.

But that wasn't their intent. The intent was to destroy by any means. Sadly, it worked.

True dat, but when the object of attention of your run of the mill rightwing adolescent racist nutjob is an organization that gives franchise to poor voters, your goal is not to enable improvement.

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:56:15am

re: #23 Jeff In Ohio

Which is of course what you said.

Hit me with your rhythm stick!
Hit me!
On the one!

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:56:21am

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

That's because your pimp reference extends beyond reruns of Starsky and Hutch.

That, and i make my yellow polyester pants look GOOD/

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:57:27am

re: #25 Aceofwhat?

That, and i make my yellow polyester pants look GOOD/

Golf pants?
/I hope so

recusancy Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:57:56am

The outcome is that many peoples' lives will be worse off and a few right wingers will be proud of themselves.

McSpiff Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:58:16am

re: #25 Aceofwhat?

That, and i make my yellow polyester pants look GOOD/

"Dammmn baby, you smuggling yams in dem pants?"

//Can't believe I'm going to it post on this...

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:59:57am

re: #23 Jeff In Ohio

True dat, but when the object of attention of your run of the mill rightwing adolescent racist nutjob is an organization that gives franchise to poor voters, your goal is not to enable improvement.

Or if the object of your attention is an organization which routinely submits fraudulent voter registrations, accumulate the proof and kick them the fuck out of the state. Either way, a hack job is immature and counterproductive.

darthstar Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:59:58am

re: #24 Jeff In Ohio

Which is of course what you said.

Hit me with your rhythm stick!
Hit me!
On the one!

Hit me slowly, hit me quick...

Youtube Video

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:01:11am

I want to meet the people who look at that jackass and think he might actually pass for a real pimp. Maybe I could dress up as Papa Smurf and, being blue, thereby pass myself off as leader of the Pennsylvania Street Crips.

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:01:27am

re: #29 Aceofwhat?

Well, ACORN is required to submit all registrations it received, and in general did an excellent job of marking the ones they suspected of being fraudulent.

The media, in general, was terrible at making that point: If someone signs a voter registration thingy and gives it to ACORN, ACORN has to submit it. They don't have a choice in the matter.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:01:52am

re: #26 HoosierHoops

Golf pants?
/I hope so

Costume party pants...i'm a few Salvation Army bags short of a thinner closet. My golf pants are much more serious.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:04:06am

re: #32 Obdicut

Well, ACORN is required to submit all registrations it received, and in general did an excellent job of marking the ones they suspected of being fraudulent.

The media, in general, was terrible at making that point: If someone signs a voter registration thingy and gives it to ACORN, ACORN has to submit it. They don't have a choice in the matter.

In Ohio, Acorn employees admitted to fraudulent activities, in addition to individuals who submitted fraudulent registrations. It was the real deal, my friend.

Boogberg Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:04:41am

re: #33 Aceofwhat?

Oh crap! Thanks for reminding me...Masters time!

darthstar Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:05:08am

re: #35 Boogberg

Oh crap! Thanks for reminding me...Masters time!

This should be a good final round.

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:05:15am

The fact the guy called the police was widely reported. Just like the fact that the woman in California later claimed she was just joking around when she gave advice and admitted to killing her ex-husband.

I keep hearing about this 'take down.' It adds very little, if anything, and does not address the most egregious videos. Remember Baltimore?

I'd say that it still looks like Acorn had some pretty terrible employees who were willing to help (along with some responsible employees).

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:06:10am

re: #34 Aceofwhat?

That's entirely different than what you first said, though, Ace. You said "Fraudulent registrations"-- and ACORN is required to submit all registrations, even ones they suspect or know to be fraudulent.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:06:30am

re: #28 McSpiff

"Dammmn baby, you smuggling yams in dem pants?"

//Can't believe I'm going to it post on this...

heh.

/did you have to sign for that package, honey?

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:07:37am

re: #37 whaledog

Because calling the police is similar to criminal activities.

Your analogy is so bad that my knee started to throb.

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:09:23am

re: #37 whaledog

The fact the guy called the police was widely reported. Just like the fact that the woman in California later claimed she was just joking around when she gave advice and admitted to killing her ex-husband.

I keep hearing about this 'take down.' It adds very little, if anything, and does not address the most egregious videos. Remember Baltimore?

I'd say that it still looks like Acorn had some pretty terrible employees who were willing to help (along with some responsible employees).

Another poster from the class of 2004.. 10 posts in 6 years..
See ya next year

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:10:13am

re: #38 Obdicut

That's entirely different than what you first said, though, Ace. You said "Fraudulent registrations"-- and ACORN is required to submit all registrations, even ones they suspect or know to be fraudulent.

that can be true and still leave room for the whole truth, which is that some fraudulent registrations submitted by ACORN were fraudulent due to actions of ACORN employees.

i made the general statement in an effort to avoid erring through specificity, but it's cool...i'm used to this pastime of yours/

Wozza Matter? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:10:54am

re: #3 Obdicut

Anyone referring to O'Keefe as a journalist or a videographer or anything similar from now on gains my total contempt.

And once again, I can't believe I fell for this crap. I should have known better.

Whatever your feelings on ACORN in general, this was a criminal conspiracy to smear the organization, and it worked. Oh brother, did it work. Our congress passed a bill-- an unconstitutional bill-- against this organization, based on the lies of criminals.

And many here celebrated when they did so.

fify

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:11:54am

re: #42 Aceofwhat?

that can be true and still leave room for the whole truth, which is that some fraudulent registrations submitted by ACORN were fraudulent due to actions of ACORN employees.

Sure. But the organization as a whole did a good job of noting which registrations were fraudulent. The way you posted it made it seem like ACORN, as a whole, routinely created and submitted fraudulent registrations. Given that this would be a wholly pointless and counterproductive activity for ACORN as a group to actually do, it's also a rather strange accusation.

i made the general statement in an effort to avoid erring through specificity, but it's cool...i'm used to this pastime of yours/

Specificity is rarely the error to watch out for.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:15:57am

re: #44 Obdicut

Sure. But the organization as a whole did a good job of noting which registrations were fraudulent. The way you posted it made it seem like ACORN, as a whole, routinely created and submitted fraudulent registrations. Given that this would be a wholly pointless and counterproductive activity for ACORN as a group to actually do, it's also a rather strange accusation.

I meant to make it seem like ACORN, in Ohio, routinely...(what you said).

Not as a whole. ACORN in state A needs to be judged by its actions in that state, like most other relatively decentralized organizations.

And folks do lots of pointless and counterproductive things in the name of partisanship. No sense in pretending that ACORN is more above such things than any other organization.

But i was specifically talking about Ohio, and the naughtiness contained therein...

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:16:25am

re: #40 Obdicut

Because calling the police is similar to criminal activities.

Your analogy is so bad that my knee started to throb.

Read again, I didn't make any analogy. I talked about the two California videos (After 1 visit, the guy called the police. After the 2nd video was published the woman claimed she was just kidding).

Your knee is safe.

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:18:38am

re: #46 whaledog

Read again, I didn't make any analogy. I talked about the two California videos (After 1 visit, the guy called the police. After the 2nd video was published the woman claimed she was just kidding).

Your knee is safe.

Oh, and I also pointed to the unrefuted Baltimore videos.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:19:10am

re: #26 HoosierHoops

Golf pants?
/I hope so

I'd wear Ian Poulter's pants with the right shirt (i'd have chosen something different than light blue), but i'll frost the tips of my hair the day I go on a double-date with O'Keefe.

Four More Tears Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:20:28am

re: #48 Aceofwhat?

I'd wear Ian Poulter's pants with the right shirt (i'd have chosen something different than light blue), but i'll frost the tips of my hair the day I go on a double-date with O'Keefe.

Check him for hidden cameras first.

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:20:52am

re: #45 Aceofwhat?

I meant to make it seem like ACORN, in Ohio, routinely...(what you said).

Not as a whole. ACORN in state A needs to be judged by its actions in that state, like most other relatively decentralized organizations.

And folks do lots of pointless and counterproductive things in the name of partisanship. No sense in pretending that ACORN is more above such things than any other organization.

But i was specifically talking about Ohio, and the naughtiness contained therein...

Can you linky me to instances in Ohio where Acorn employees (not temp workers) were convicted of supporting/encouraging fraudulent registration activities. I've heard all the accusations, but I am not familiar with the convictions.

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:21:48am

re: #48 Aceofwhat?

I'd wear Ian Poulter's pants with the right shirt (i'd have chosen something different than light blue), but i'll frost the tips of my hair the day I go on a double-date with O'Keefe.

Did you see Adam Scott's Eagle? My Son pulled off an Eagle 2 once while we were playing...Hit a 5 iron Stiff from around 200 yards...and it drop in from one bounce on the green..I almost fainted

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:22:41am

re: #49 JasonA

Check him for hidden cameras first.

Actually, he could be of use as a screening device...any female who showed the slightest interest in him is a bad match for me...but i have this nagging feeling that i'd want to choke the life out of him after about 15 seconds in his company.

Just a feeling...

darthstar Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:23:05am

re: #48 Aceofwhat?

I'd wear Ian Poulter's pants with the right shirt (i'd have chosen something different than light blue), but i'll frost the tips of my hair the day I go on a double-date with O'Keefe.

I've got a pair of green paisley Ralph Lauren pants my wife bought me a few years ago for a summer trip to France. I call them my 'fancy pants'...they were 225.00 retail, but we got them at Nordstrom rack for about $50. I use them as my golf pants when I play in charity tournaments (I'm a total hack...shoot about 116--112 on a good day) so I can at least LOOK like a golfer. I have shot two birdies though in the last year, and about three pars.

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:23:06am

Rachel was good to say that nobody will excuse the bad things that ACORN does. And we can all agree on that.

These cases show deception. Are they the exception? Are all the other videos that Brietbart published flawed in a similar manner? It would be a good long segment for 60 Minutes or Frontline to expose.

political lunatic Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:24:14am

Is anyone else on TV going to admit that this story was BS? Doubt it.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:27:52am

re: #50 Jeff In Ohio

Can you linky me to instances in Ohio where Acorn employees (not temp workers) were convicted of supporting/encouraging fraudulent registration activities. I've heard all the accusations, but I am not familiar with the convictions.

Google Freddie Johnson. Here's one link.

[Link: www.cleveland.com...]

I'm too lazy to look for more. Granted, ACORN settled and got out of the state rather than go through with the trial...so i doubt you'll find actual convictions.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:27:55am

Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”.

Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:27:56am

re: #11 JasonA

I'm pretty sure a lot of them still are. Acorn's evil, you see, so the ends justify the means. There are probably some on this very board who are happy to see the damage this has done to Acorn.

If by probably you mean definitely ;-)

McSpiff Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:28:49am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

I hate it when my side is this stupid. Gah.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:28:51am

re: #55 political lunatic

Is anyone else on TV going to admit that this story was BS? Doubt it.

I'm pretty sure Fox was the only network that actually covered the story.

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:28:55am

I just got this for the rotating title

Hell hath no fury like an accountant scorned.

LOL!
Perfect for April's tax season!

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:29:30am

I feel worst for the guy in San Diego who pumped O'keefe for information so he could give it to the cops, and ended up losing his job over it. Given the publicity provided by Maddow and others, I'm sure he'll land on his feet, but what kind of lesson is this for others who might stick their necks out to do the right thing?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:29:54am

re: #37 whaledog

The fact the guy called the police was widely reported. Just like the fact that the woman in California later claimed she was just joking around when she gave advice and admitted to killing her ex-husband.

I keep hearing about this 'take down.' It adds very little, if anything, and does not address the most egregious videos. Remember Baltimore?

I'd say that it still looks like Acorn had some pretty terrible employees who were willing to help (along with some responsible employees).

Howdy, sleeper! Would you like a nice cuppa joe to go with your miraculous Sleeping-Beauty-esque awakening?

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:30:44am

re: #56 Aceofwhat?

Thanks!

Four More Tears Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:31:15am

re: #62 Shiplord Kirel

I feel worst for the guy in San Diego who pumped O'keefe for information so he could give it to the cops, and ended up losing his job over it. Given the publicity provided by Maddow and others, I'm sure he'll land on his feet, but what kind of lesson is this for others who might stick their necks out to do the right thing?

Don't try to be a hero. Unfortunately.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:32:24am

re: #59 McSpiff

I hate it when my side is this stupid. Gah.

Probably meant to be a publicity stunt. ;-) Dawkins got books to sell!

bratwurst Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:32:44am

re: #56 Aceofwhat?

Google Freddie Johnson.

With all respect, I'd rather google Freedy Johnston.

Youtube Video

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:32:48am

re: #53 darthstar

I've got a pair of green paisley Ralph Lauren pants my wife bought me a few years ago for a summer trip to France. I call them my 'fancy pants'...they were 225.00 retail, but we got them at Nordstrom rack for about $50. I use them as my golf pants when I play in charity tournaments (I'm a total hack...shoot about 116--112 on a good day) so I can at least LOOK like a golfer. I have shot two birdies though in the last year, and about three pars.

Nice. My favorite pair is a brown plaid i got from some random store like American Eagle or something...sale rack, soft as pajamas. Plaid can be a dangerous pattern but in brown it's muted enough to be palatable with a solid shirt.

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:34:18am

re: #68 Aceofwhat?
Guys...got to ebay for ralph lauren or Hickey Freeman suits...used...still great but you have to know your exact size...Cheap great clothes.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:34:37am

re: #64 Jeff In Ohio

Thanks!

i'm still an Ohioan at heart...go Cavs!

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:36:10am

Time to derail this thread with some music.

Ofra Haza

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:36:47am

R/C drone in a Winterwonderland

Liveleak Video

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:37:04am

re: #71 negativ

duurp.

Youtube Video

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:37:17am

re: #71 negativ
I was in Israel in 2000 when she died. Somebody said she was like Michael Jackson to them.

webevintage Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:39:51am

O’Keefe and Breitbart are obviously lying douchebags of the the highest order and of course FOX sucks on many levels.
BUT the worst actors in all of this are the 178 DEMOCRATS in Congress who ran like big fucking babies to defund ACORN instead of standing up to the Republicans & their minions at FOX and asking for a real investigation.

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:39:56am

re: #67 bratwurst

With all respect, I'd rather google Freedy Johnston.

[Video]

If you haven't heard Freedy's new one 'Rain On The City', I strongly recommend it.

reine.de.tout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:40:35am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

Killgore -- check that out a bit more.
I thought I saw something this morning that this was exaggerated. I'll look for what I saw, but not sure I'll find it.

brookly red Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:42:41am

interesting view... upding for originality.

Jeff In Ohio Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:42:47am

re: #70 Aceofwhat?

i'm still an Ohioan at heart...go Cavs!

Go Royals! I met The Big O once.

Four More Tears Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:43:07am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Killgore -- check that out a bit more.
I thought I saw something this morning that this was exaggerated. I'll look for what I saw, but not sure I'll find it.

Here: re: #493 negativ

swamprat Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:43:23am

This is the fairest thing I have ever seen from this lady. Yeah, she changed "a prostitute getting a mortgage" to "a prostitute getting housing" and turned "ACORN being blocked from recieving federal funding" to ACORN being shut down", but she correctly showed how dishonest the released video was, and how willingly FOX and the right accepted, unquestionally, the propaganda because it fit their agenda.

A pox on FOX.

And a certain employee (or two) certainly has a wonderful opportunity to sue for ...say... slander, defamation, lost wages... He has (in effect) won the lottery!

This whole thing was fishy from the start. Are there any media outlets which vet stories that seem to pander to their agendas?
Why does that sentence even make sense today? Why the hell should the media even have an agenda?

I am disgusted.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:44:36am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: richarddawkins.net...]

Comment #478580 by Richard Dawkins on April 11, 2010 at 8:48 am
Needless to say, I did NOT say "I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI" or anything so personally grandiloquent. You have to remember that The Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper, and that all newspapers follow the odd custom of entrusting headlines to a sub-editor, not the author of the article itself.

What I DID say to Marc Horne when he telephoned me out of the blue, and I repeat it here, is that I am whole-heartedly behind the initiative by Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens to mount a legal challenge to the Pope's proposed visit to Britain. Beyond that, I declined to comment to Marc Horme, other than to refer him to my 'Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope' article here: [Link: richarddawkins.net...]

Here is what really happened. Christopher Hitchens first proposed the legal challenge idea to me on March 14th. I responded enthusiastically, and suggested the name of a high profile human rights lawyer whom I know. I had lost her address, however, and set about tracking her down. Meanwhile, Christopher made the brilliant suggestion of Geoffrey Robertson. He approached him, and Mr Robertson's subsequent 'Put the Pope in the Dock' article in The Guardian shows him to be ideal:
[Link: richarddawkins.net...]
The case is obviously in good hands, with him and Mark Stephens. I am especially intrigued by the proposed challenge to the legality of the Vatican as a sovereign state whose head can claim diplomatic immunity.

Even if the Pope doesn't end up in the dock, and even if the Vatican doesn't cancel the visit, I am optimistic that we shall raise public consciousness to the point where the British government will find it very awkward indeed to go ahead with the Pope's visit, let alone pay for it.

Richard

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:44:38am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Dawkin's statement:

C
Needless to say, I did NOT say "I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI" or anything so personally grandiloquent. You have to remember that The Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper, and that all newspapers follow the odd custom of entrusting headlines to a sub-editor, not the author of the article itself.

What I DID say to Marc Horne when he telephoned me out of the blue, and I repeat it here, is that I am whole-heartedly behind the initiative by Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens to mount a legal challenge to the Pope's proposed visit to Britain. Beyond that, I declined to comment to Marc Horme, other than to refer him to my 'Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope' article here: [Link: richarddawkins.net...]

Here is what really happened. Christopher Hitchens first proposed the legal challenge idea to me on March 14th. I responded enthusiastically, and suggested the name of a high profile human rights lawyer whom I know. I had lost her address, however, and set about tracking her down. Meanwhile, Christopher made the brilliant suggestion of Geoffrey Robertson. He approached him, and Mr Robertson's subsequent 'Put the Pope in the Dock' article in The Guardian shows him to be ideal:
[Link: richarddawkins.net...]
The case is obviously in good hands, with him and Mark Stephens. I am especially intrigued by the proposed challenge to the legality of the Vatican as a sovereign state whose head can claim diplomatic immunity.

Even if the Pope doesn't end up in the dock, and even if the Vatican doesn't cancel the visit, I am optimistic that we shall raise public consciousness to the point where the British government will find it very awkward indeed to go ahead with the Pope's visit, let alone pay for it.

Richard

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:45:11am

Damn you, negativ!

reine.de.tout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:46:27am

re: #80 JasonA

thanks.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:46:51am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Hmm, it's possible but here's his latest comments on his website...

"Should he be investigated for how cases of abuse were handled under his watch as archbishop of Munich or as the Vatican's chief doctrinal enforcer?" Yes, of course he should. This former head of the Inquisition should be arrested the moment he dares to set foot outside his tinpot fiefdom of the Vatican, and he should be tried in an appropriate civil - not ecclesiastical - court. That's what should happen. Sadly, we all know our faith-befuddled governments will be too craven to do it.

It sounds like he knows it will never actually happen so at least he's being realistic about it.

reine.de.tout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:46:56am

re: #84 Obdicut

Damn you, negativ!

neener-neener!

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:47:35am

re: #80 JasonA

Here: re: #493 negativ

Ah, thanks.

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:48:03am

re: #75 webevintage

A point well made, webvintage. If anyone from the Democratic National Committee is reading this thread, this is why it's difficult to support the national party, this and things like losing a seat in Massachusetts by putting up a reprehensibly stupid candidate.

Take a stand, Democrats. Now is the time to do it.

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:50:23am

Thanks to you!
Aceofwhat?, HoosierHoops, PhillyPretzel, Reginald Perrin, reine.de.tout
Karma's looking good!

Lidane Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:51:55am

Totally OT, but does anyone know of any good books or online resources on caring for an aging parent, especially when you're in different cities? I'm at a complete loss.

Without going into detail, my mother isn't doing as well as she lets on, at least according to my aunt and uncle, who live near her. I have to try and figure out how to get a 73-year old woman to go to a doctor and get proper medical care, especially when I'm 300+ miles away and can't just up and run to take care of things, and when she tells me that she's fine when we're on the phone. Any advice? It would be much appreciated.

bratwurst Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:51:59am

re: #76 Jeff In Ohio

If you haven't heard Freedy's new one 'Rain On The City', I strongly recommend it.

I have not! Thanks for the tip. I saw him live several years back and was thoroughly entertained by the man and his guitar.

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:53:26am

re: #90 Floral Giraffe

Thanks to you!
Aceofwhat?, HoosierHoops, PhillyPretzel, Reginald Perrin, reine.de.tout
Karma's looking good!

Not to worry..I have over a trillion updings in my account to give out..
Funny..I never seem to run out...
How is the LA weather today?

Lidane Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:54:24am

re: #89 Obdicut

Take a stand, Democrats. Now is the time to do it.

LOL! You're asking an awful lot from the Dems.

I might vote Democratic more often than not, but that's largely due to the Republicans here in Texas being dominated by the creationist, anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-reason wing of the party. It's not out of any deep and abiding love for the D's.

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:55:04am

re: #91 Lidane

I'm going through something like that with my grandmother right now, and the only thing that we've found-- and I'm sorry if this isn't economically possible for you-- is to arrange for an at-home care person for her. In my grandmother's case, she has Alzheimer's as well as general health issues, so I don't know if the cases are similar.

If it is just a matter of getting her to the doctor, with no mental confusion issues, I really don't know of any good way to do it, except perhaps to find a doctor (or nurse practitioner) who specializes in geriatrics and has great charisma-- and those are rather rare, to put it mildly.

Someone else may have better advice. Best of luck, and don't beat yourself up too much about it; it's a very difficult situation.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:56:11am

re: #8 Thanos

The breitbart thing is like the time CBS or someone else was sending burqa clad people to Nascar races to see if they could get a racist / religious bigotry rise out of the crowd. The lie there was the burqa on a non muslim CBS reporter, the Lies in the O'keefe - Breitbart baiting video are more numerous and egregious.

I hate even mentioning the Nascar incident btw because whiny andy will now use it in his litany of "See!?! See!?! They do it too!" whenever he gets questioned on his yellow tabloid techniques.

The difference being that when NASCAR fans didn't rise to the bait, I don't believe the reporter cobbled together faked footage to portray them as racists and then ran it.

keloyd Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:57:00am

re: #37 whaledog
1. Factually, you're correct that there's nothing new here. A judge already cleared ACORN on these specific charges and cited extensive, dishonest "editing," but nowadays, you need video or it didn't hapen. It is newsworthy that Maddow got hold of the video and considered this more important than Tiger Woods or the missing white girl du jour.

2. It's possible to be paranoid and have enemies coming to get you at any moment.

ACORN did lots of shady things before this keystone cops episode. Their record on large amounts of cash changing hands for quid pro quo shenanigans, vote buying under the cover of voter registration, and embezzlement is outlined at length on Wiki. Maddow gave one very brief line to this at the very end of her piece.

IMHO, the right move is be honest and flip the bird to that pimpin kid (aged 24) AND ACORN.

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:57:31am

re: #97 keloyd

ACORN did lots of shady things before this keystone cops episode. Their record on large amounts of cash changing hands for quid pro quo shenanigans, vote buying under the cover of voter registration, and embezzlement is outlined at length on Wiki. Maddow gave one very brief line to this at the very end of her piece.

Vote buying? What the fuck are you talking about?

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:57:50am

re: #91 Lidane

Her city might have a "Council on Aging". And, if there's any possibility of dementia/Alzheimers, buy the 36 hour day. I read that book at least 20 times. It's helped so much!

You might also call her doctor & ask his/her advice!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

100

Irenicum Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:58:16am

Thank God for Rachel Maddow. She is amazing. Thanks Charles for posting this. It's going on my FB page immediately. Though I seriously doubt it will change any of my right wing friends' views of Fix News being "fair and balanced." But with each piece of evidence accumulating, it will only show how holed up they are from reality. Amazing. Just amazing. Rachel deserves a medal for what she's doing.

101

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:58:49am

re: #93 HoosierHoops

Not to worry..I have over a trillion updings in my account to give out..
Funny..I never seem to run out...
How is the LA weather today?

Cloudy, 20% chance of that wet stuff falling out of the sky.
I forget what it's called ;)

102

sagehen Sun, Apr 11, 2010 11:58:55am

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

The difference being that when NASCAR fans didn't rise to the bait, I don't believe the reporter cobbled together faked footage to portray them as racists and then ran it.

But Borat did, and he works in Hollywood, so it's just like if Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid had personally ordered him to.

103

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:00:08pm

re: #95 Obdicut

You might benefit from that book I linked. Uncle lived in an Alzheimers care facility for 8 years. He passed this summer, but that book helped me a LOT.

104

Wozza Matter? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:01:24pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Vote buying? What the fuck are you talking about?

i don't know, but can only assume it relates t paying people to register............

and after all, Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck votes swung the election to Obama.

105

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:02:01pm

re: #103 Floral Giraffe

Thank you, I definitely will, and recommend it to my dad, as well.

106

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:02:35pm

re: #98 Obdicut
from what I remember, they paid people by the number of names they could register which encouraged people to make up names or cheat to get remuneration from ACORN

107

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:02:50pm

re: #105 Obdicut

108

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:02:59pm

re: #106 plato

Which translates into zero actual votes.

109

Wozza Matter? Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:03:22pm

re: #104 wozzablog

i don't know, but can only assume it relates to paying homeless/struggling people to register voters...

and after all, Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck votes swung the election to Obama.

PIMF

110

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:04:20pm

re: #93 HoosierHoops

You know what's really cool?
A B-17 is flying around today.
It's at an airshow at our local little airport.
I was bummed that a ride in it cost $400.
You can hear it coming, flying low & slow.
It's a beautiful thing!

111

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:04:30pm

re: #108 Obdicut
Or people might be able to vote twice using their's plus a fictitious name if the polling place was less than efficient

112

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:05:53pm

re: #111 plato

And maybe someone would run out and change their name to Mickey Mouse and come back and vote!

113

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:06:31pm

re: #112 Obdicut

LOL

114

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:08:09pm

re: #8 Thanos

Wait—someone actually went to Nascar races in a burqa? Like an Afghan "parachute" style burqa?? *thud*

115

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:09:47pm

re: #102 sagehen

But Borat did, and he works in Hollywood, so it's just like if Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid had personally ordered him to.

Ah, Borat. The only man to ever make me feel admiration for Alan Keyes.

116

webevintage Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:10:26pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

The difference being that when NASCAR fans didn't rise to the bait, I don't believe the reporter cobbled together faked footage to portray them as racists and then ran it.

Nor did Congress shake their collective fingers at NASCAR or pull funding.

117

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:11:47pm

re: #106 plato

from what I remember, they paid people by the number of names they could register which encouraged people to make up names or cheat to get remuneration from ACORN

A lot of registration drives pay by the registration. It sounds like they did have trouble with employees cheating at that, however, ACORN's only option in that case was to can the employee and submit the registration forms. If I have been informed correctly, in Ohio at any rate, they did notify the state that they believed certain forms to be bogus.

118

keloyd Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:11:49pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Vote buying? What the fuck are you talking about?

Wait a sec. I may have to take back one of my three complaints. I see embezzlement on Wiki, I see lots of local Chicago back scratching with hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and cozy relationships with Obama dating back donkey's years, but I will retract "vote buying" if I think I remember it but can't cite.

It WASNT 2008 national election vote buying; it was local Chicago shenanigans, like the "walking around money" to aldermen you hear about in lots of big cities. I'll take it back tho since I'm too lazy to dig more. In any event, the pimpin kid (aged 24, old enough to have risen to Captain in the US Army) and ACORN get my bird finger.

I hope that poor Mexican man who called the cops has a flood of calls offering him work from this too.

119

Jimmah Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:12:17pm

I'm scanning through over 100 comments on this thread and I see nothing about how evil Jimmy Carter was. Wingnuts takin' the day off or sumthin'? :D

120

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:12:56pm

re: #111 plato

Or people might be able to vote twice using their's plus a fictitious name if the polling place was less than efficient

True, but that could happen anywhere, under any conditions. That's why we try to have good polling places.

There's no evidence that it ever happened, to the best of my knowledge.

121

andres Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:12:56pm

re: #47 whaledog

Oh, and I also pointed to the unrefuted Baltimore videos.

Unrefuted, as in "the uncut videos haven't been released?"

122

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:13:34pm

re: #114 CuriousLurker

Wait—someone actually went to Nascar races in a burqa? Like an Afghan "parachute" style burqa?? *thud*

Yes. And apparently the NASCAR fans of America could care less.

123

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:13:53pm

re: #118 keloyd

Thank you for taking that back.

Vote buying = really bad shit.

And the 'walking around money' is given out by both parties, and Obama was unusual in not giving it out on many occasions.

124

Lidane Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:15:45pm

re: #95 Obdicut

To be honest, I'm not sure about mental confusion issues. Some days when I talk to her, she's fine. Other days, she'll call several times to ask me about something we just talked about the day before, or even in the previous conversation. In general, she's got a great memory, and can recall events and people from decades ago with incredible clarity, but she's got moments where she forgets things from one conversation to the next.

Beyond that, it's general health issues. She's lost an alarming amount of weight, even for my eyes. She's too skinny by half, and trying to get her to eat is a challenge. It's noticeable, and even other family members have commented on it. I'm worried about her.

Thing is, I'm 300+ miles away. I can't just rush over to her house every five minutes. I'm also looking at grad school, and in trying to get a better job. I can't just uproot my life and move back home. I need to figure out how to get her to take care of herself and to see a doctor. I can't force the issue, but it's something that needs to happen.

Gah. This is so damned frustrating. =P

re: #99 Floral Giraffe

Her city might have a "Council on Aging". And, if there's any possibility of dementia/Alzheimers, buy the 36 hour day. I read that book at least 20 times. It's helped so much!

You might also call her doctor & ask his/her advice!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Thanks for the book recommendation. I've already ordered it from Amazon and will definitely read it.

I'm going to find out who her doctor is and see what I can do from there. My uncle's already told me he'll help in any way he can, and I know that my other aunts and uncles would intervene if I asked them for help, so I'm not facing this alone, but I still feel out of depth here. I hate seeing her like this.

125

andres Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:16:54pm

re: #59 McSpiff

I hate it when my side is this stupid. Gah.

Someone said that, no matter on which side of an issue you were, you were going to have people you wished were on the other side. =P

126

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:17:25pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. And apparently the NASCAR fans of America could care less.

Kudos to them. That's great to hear.

127

plato Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:19:40pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist
It could but I seem to remember that vote getters for ACORN confessed the name getting...I don't remember ballot stuffing busts.

128

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:20:13pm

re: #124 Lidane

It wasn't until we arranged for the stable stay-at-home care for her-- as in, a woman who comes in every day to help her-- that we felt at all confident in Grammy's well-being.

And even with that, she's managed to hurt herself quite often.

And, depressingly, well, I don't really consider her 'grammy' anymore. The woman she is now argues, fights, spits on people, curses, and is angry. She's okay with me, but she accuses Uncle Bill of trying to poison her, when she's not denying that he's her son.

That's the most painful part to me.

I recommend, for dealing, narratively, with any potential confusion of that nature, Madeline L'engele's beautiful book.

[Link: www.madeleinelengle.com...]

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

129

Semper Fi Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:21:58pm

re: #91 Lidane

Totally OT, but does anyone know of any good books or online resources on caring for an aging parent, especially when you're in different cities? I'm at a complete loss.

Without going into detail, my mother isn't doing as well as she lets on, at least according to my aunt and uncle, who live near her. I have to try and figure out how to get a 73-year old woman to go to a doctor and get proper medical care, especially when I'm 300+ miles away and can't just up and run to take care of things, and when she tells me that she's fine when we're on the phone. Any advice? It would be much appreciated.

It's an extremely difficult for you both.
My mom's been gone 4 yrs now. She also lived about 300 miles distant. I'd fly in couple times a month to handle bills and maintenance for the house. This continued for about 2 yrs during which I could see dementia rearing its ugly head. An illness required surgery so moved her with me thus I was no longer a frequent flyer. Mom recouped but, due to her dementia, could not relax in her new surroundings - always wanting to "go home." She lived with me 7 years until her hip replacement surgery when I had to place her in a elder care facility. It was a good one with only 6 total elder guests. I visited constantly. Mom passed 3 years later.

My prayers are with you both.

130

bosforus Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:23:06pm

I know there still quite a few LGF readers who don’t want to believe the videos were deceptive...

I was in that camp for longer than I'd like to admit. When it was revealed that the tapes were edited the clue bat had finally hit me hard enough to change my mind.

131

keloyd Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:23:10pm

re: #119 Jimmah

I'm scanning through over 100 comments on this thread and I see nothing about how evil Jimmy Carter was. Wingnuts takin' the day off or sumthin'? :D

They have returned from walking too and fro upon the earth, and up and down on it, to fight the ~~Civil War~~ War Between The States yet again in the next thread.

132

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:25:03pm

Re: the complaint about 'selective editing' b/c they did not show the employee in San Diego asking for more information. That only became relevant AFTER the video was released and the employee said he went to the police. All editing involves selection, but that wasn't a case of malicious selective editing.

The Fox reporting, or any failure to report about going to the police, would be a different matter, of course.

133

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:28:15pm

re: #121 andres

Unrefuted, as in "the uncut videos haven't been released?"

Those videos were really bad. I highly doubt the un-cut video could rehabilitate the acorn employees. We have not seen evidence of editing/manipulation anywhere near the level yet.

134

Obdicut Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:29:10pm

re: #133 whaledog

So you didn't actually watch the piece, and are just trying to smear ACORN anyway?

You suck.

135

Semper Fi Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:30:59pm

re: #129 Semper Fi

A quick PS.

Mom passed at age 97. She was quite a lady.

136

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:31:11pm

re: #133 whaledog

Those videos were really bad. I highly doubt the un-cut video could rehabilitate the acorn employees. We have not seen evidence of editing/manipulation anywhere near the level yet.

Oh, nonsense. You doubt because you don't want to accept that everywhere the tapes are being examined in their uncut form, they fail to prove anything except that James O'Keefe is a spoiled brat with an agenda.

He has lied repeatedly, he was arrested for lying and attempting to tamper with phones in a US Senator's office, but you're absolutely sure that there's something real bad in those tapes he wasn't lying about?

What has O'Keefe done to earn such loyalty from you?

137

TedStriker Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:39:05pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, nonsense. You doubt because you don't want to accept that everywhere the tapes are being examined in their uncut form, they fail to prove anything except that James O'Keefe is a spoiled brat with an agenda.

He has lied repeatedly, he was arrested for lying and attempting to tamper with phones in a US Senator's office, but you're absolutely sure that there's something real bad in those tapes he wasn't lying about?

What has O'Keefe done to earn such loyalty from you?

Not to cast aspersions on ol' whaledog, but they are a member of the LGF Class of 2004 with only 14 posts to their name.

What says you, whaledog...why did this particular post by Charles stir you from your slumber?

138

swamprat Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:44:58pm

re: #132 whaledog

Thank you. I was SO bored.

139

swamprat Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:49:22pm

re: #132 whaledog

All editing involves selection, but that wasn't a case of malicious selective editing.

Uh, what would qualify, by your standards?

140

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:51:54pm

re: #132 whaledog

Re: the complaint about 'selective editing' b/c they did not show the employee in San Diego asking for more information. That only became relevant AFTER the video was released and the employee said he went to the police. All editing involves selection, but that wasn't a case of malicious selective editing.

The Fox reporting, or any failure to report about going to the police, would be a different matter, of course.

Sleeper's still sleepwalking, huh?

I think you took too much Ambien, pal.

141

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:52:38pm

re: #119 Jimmah

I'm scanning through over 100 comments on this thread and I see nothing about how evil Jimmy Carter was. Wingnuts takin' the day off or sumthin'? :D

ahahahahah yeah, the third rail of Jimmy Carter has not surfaced

142

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 11, 2010 12:52:51pm

re: #138 swamprat

Thank you. I was SO bored.

Let us know, when to fire up the grill!
Have fun!

143

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 11, 2010 1:00:05pm

re: #3 Obdicut

And once again, I can't believe I fell for this crap. I should have known better.

Yeah, me too.

Last time that happened to me (that I admit to) was when another con man called Geller proved on the BBC that mind control could bend spoons and keys.

About 40 years ago.

144

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 11, 2010 1:02:11pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

What has O'Keefe done to earn such loyalty from you?

registered 2004. 14 comments.

Ring any bells?

145

HappyWarrior Sun, Apr 11, 2010 1:05:58pm

God if I were those ACORN employees fired because of this, I'd be so pissed.

146

jefffx Sun, Apr 11, 2010 1:39:18pm

I didn't take the videos seriously because of the pimp outfit. I assumed that the employees saw this frail kid dressed as a 70's TV pimp, and knew it had to be a joke. I was surprised when I first learned he wasn't wearing the costume.

147

Elaine Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:33pm

I remember Charles posting the news about that particular guy in San Diego ACORN office being cleared out of possible wrong doing, because he allegedly called a relative of his in Police Department, and reported about the "prostitution ring". That was probably a year before the Maddow's report on MSNBC, so that's hardly a breaking news.

Enough time have passed to conclude that no other involved ACORN employee did the responsible thing and alerted the athorities. And about the fur coat in question -- you can see on FOX's video that the guy is vearing a dress shirt underneath the coat. In one of the Rachel's video cuts, you can see Giles in the ACORN office, holding the coat. So my conclusion is that he did wear the coat, but removed it at some point during the filming.

148

William of Orange Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:58pm

I posted this a few days ago inhere and indeed, it deserves it's own topic.

149

pragmatist Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:30:06pm

Thank goodness reputable filmmakers like Michael Moore never do this!

150

Pythagoras Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:08:10pm

re: #121 andres

Unrefuted, as in "the uncut videos haven't been released?"

The Baltimore videos showed an incredulous O'Keefe wondering how there could be a tax category for prostitution. The uncut videos would reveal heavy editing but the Baltimore folks were still cool with prostitution.

151

greenmamba Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:31:41pm

The problem for the unaligned is that the MSM ignored the story until such time as there was evidence against its veracity. Maddow is obviously drooling at catching out Fox. There was also a story in November purportedly via an ACORN insider, that Jerry Brown was planning a pro-ACORN result.

I'm quite prepared to believe that what FOX presented was exaggerated, but from some research I did years ago, I always thought ACORN was a highly suspect outift.

I'd have to see all the tapes myself before believing anyone on this.

152

andres Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:55:38pm

re: #147 Elaine

I remember Charles posting the news about that particular guy in San Diego ACORN office being cleared out of possible wrong doing, because he allegedly called a relative of his in Police Department, and reported about the "prostitution ring". That was probably a year before the Maddow's report on MSNBC, so that's hardly a breaking news.

IIRC, the police was called several times.

Enough time have passed to conclude that no other involved ACORN employee did the responsible thing and alerted the athorities.

Several employees, actually, since several reports were filed from different offices. This case in particular is more damning, because the guy was fired because of the videos.

And about the fur coat in question -- you can see on FOX's video that the guy is vearing a dress shirt underneath the coat. In one of the Rachel's video cuts, you can see Giles in the ACORN office, holding the coat. So my conclusion is that he did wear the coat, but removed it at some point during the filming.

What if Giles was using the coat instead of O'Keefe?

re: #150 Pythagoras

The Baltimore videos showed an incredulous O'Keefe wondering how there could be a tax category for prostitution. The uncut videos would reveal heavy editing but the Baltimore folks were still cool with prostitution.

I'm sorry, but I'll take Saint Thomas' position, I gotta see to believe 'em.

153

whaledog Sun, Apr 11, 2010 8:19:59pm

I have some time to sit @ the computer again. In a bit more detail, this is why the Maddow report is underwhelming. She focuses on three things:

1)The Video: O'Keef and Giles represented themselves as a pimp and a prostitute, and O'Keef led people to believe he wore a pimp costume when he filmed.
"Maddow Exposes" that O'Keef didn't wear a pimp outfit.
However: O'Keef and Giles explicitly presented themselves as a pimp and prostitute. Maddow's complaint here has some merit because O'Keef did let people believe he wore the outfit, which he showed in an intro common to all his videos. But this is a red herring IMO since they expressly identified themselves as a pimp and a prostitute to Acorn employees and there was no confusion as to whether they were "legit."

2) The Video: A San Diego Acorn employee gave them advice on smuggling children for a sex ring.
"Maddow Exposes" The Acorn employee asked for additional information from O'Keef (not shown in the video) and called the police.
However: The Acorn employee did appear to be giving advice when they were shooting the video. No deceptive editing involved in this count. The call to the police was not made public until after the video aired, and so the failure to show that request for a phone number only became relevant after the video was released. While it appears that the Acorn employee acted properly by calling the police, it also appears that the editing was fair.

Here, Maddow's strongest complaint is with the way Fox reported (or failed to report) the call to the police, not with the videos themselves.

3) The Video: A South Central Los Angeles Acorn employee encouraged them in their prostitution ring.
"Maddow exposes" that the employee turned to Giles and encouraged her that she "can do anything . . . don't give up" in a quest for housing.
However: O'Keef's video shows the same 'unedited' portion Maddow that shows in order to prove that the video is deceptive! Ah, but if you listen carefully, here Maddow claims that Fox coverage (not the video itself) was deceptive. Moreover, Maddow fails to mention that the same woman advised them to see an Acorn supervisor who could help them. Nor does Maddow mention that when the supervisor refused to help (which O'Keef and Giles included in their video), the same woman continued to offer her personal assistance, including talking to her friends in prostitution and doing research for them, to aid their international sex business.

The videos were obviously edited. I think it would be instructive to see the unedited videos. But, if this was the best Maddow could find after watching both of the unedited videos, then it does not look like there was any selective editing by O'Keef.

Again, Maddow's substantive complaints are about the way Fox covered the story. That's a long way from 'debunking' O'Keef and Giles.

154

Varek Raith Mon, Apr 12, 2010 1:22:25am

re: #153 whaledog

I'm afraid you'll have to schedule some time with the LHC in order to further pulverize this rather dead horse.

Spy Mode Auto

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