Rolling Stone Interviews President Obama

Politics • Views: 9,597

Here’s the Rolling Stone interview with President Obama, and here’s the quote everyone’s already chattering about:

What do you think of Fox News? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?

[Laughs] Look, as president, I swore to uphold the Constitution, and part of that Constitution is a free press. We’ve got a tradition in this country of a press that oftentimes is opinionated. The golden age of an objective press was a pretty narrow span of time in our history. Before that, you had folks like Hearst who used their newspapers very intentionally to promote their viewpoints. I think Fox is part of that tradition — it is part of the tradition that has a very clear, undeniable point of view. It’s a point of view that I disagree with. It’s a point of view that I think is ultimately destructive for the long-term growth of a country that has a vibrant middle class and is competitive in the world. But as an economic enterprise, it’s been wildly successful. And I suspect that if you ask Mr. Murdoch what his number-one concern is, it’s that Fox is very successful.

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366 comments
1 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:51:15pm

cue ODS and wingnut outrage in 3…2….1

2 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:51:52pm

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE!!11ty.

Heh, what the hell happened to that, anyway?
///

3 shutdown  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:53:05pm

News outlets should be controlled by the government. Like in the old country.

4 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:53:28pm

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

5 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:54:29pm

re: #1 PT Barnum

cue ODS and wingnut outrage in 3…2…1

4.
;)

6 shutdown  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:54:44pm

BBL. Time to hang with my teenager.

7 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:55:03pm

My first thought upon reading this was “ok, now how will the wingnuts spin this as some kind of attack on Fox?”

8 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:56:53pm

“ultimately destructive”…yep.

9 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:57:41pm

re: #5 Varek Raith

4.
;)

Kinda sad that they’re that predictable, huh?

10 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:58:07pm

I think it’s fairly clear where I stand on FAUX NOISE.

11 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:58:09pm

What the Wingnuts will say:

Drudge: Breaking! Obama to shut down Fox News!

Redstate: Obama slams private media ownership!

Jihad Watch: Obama indicates the eventual Islamification of TV journalism!

Hot Air: Obama laughs at Fox News! Doesn’t mention Iran.

Ed Morrissey: Obama used the word “I” five times in his response.

Free Republic: Obama announces death panels and FEMA camps for Fox News execs and listeners.

12 reidr  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:58:26pm

Sounds about right to me.

13 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:59:07pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

My first thought upon reading this was “ok, now how will the wingnuts spin this as some kind of attack on Fox?”

That he compares them to the Hearsts.

14 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:59:16pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

Last I checked, MSNBC wasn’t partially owned by a Saudi prince who boasts of manipulating their news coverage.

15 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:59:29pm

probably setting up another “100 Greatest” gig….RS sucks

16 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:00:34pm

re: #14 publicityStunted

Last I checked, MSNBC wasn’t partially owned by a Saudi prince who boasts of manipulating their news coverage.

MSNBC is also owned by one of our largest defense contractors.

17 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:00:51pm

re: #15 albusteve

Good to see you posting, Steve!!!

18 Charleston Chew  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:00:55pm

I wonder which two or three words will be biopsied out of the context of that good, reasonable and somewhat lengthy answer and used against him.

19 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:01:15pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

Right - because the truth or falsehood of a statement is irrelevant, only the political opinions of the person making the statement.

20 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:01:59pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That he compares them to the Hearsts.

He has a point though. Fox is foreign-owned. Murdoch is Australian, and a Saudi Prince owns another big chunk. Their only concern is making money, and they’ve cornered the market on manipulating the most ignorant Americans into an exclusive, and fearful, audience.

21 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:02:24pm

re: #18 Charleston Chew

I wonder which two or three words will be biopsied out of the context of that good, reasonable and somewhat lengthy answer and used against him.

I think Fox is part of that tradition — it is part of the tradition that has a very clear, undeniable point of view. It’s a point of view that I disagree with. It’s a point of view that I think is ultimately destructive for the long-term growth of a country that has a vibrant middle class and is competitive in the world

22 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:02:42pm

re: #11 Gus 802


Free Republic: Obama announces death panels and FEMA camps for Fox News execs and listeners.

I would settle for some contact with reality for Fox listeners? Can I have that?

23 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:03:03pm

re: #20 darthstar

He has a point though. Fox is foreign-owned. Murdoch is Australian, and a Saudi Prince owns another big chunk. Their only concern is making money, and they’ve cornered the market on manipulating the most ignorant Americans into an exclusive, and fearful, audience.

Since when has the President making a valid point mattered to these people?

24 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:03:07pm

re: #20 darthstar

He has a point though. Fox is foreign-owned. Murdoch is Australian, and a Saudi Prince owns another big chunk. Their only concern is making money, and they’ve cornered the market on manipulating the most ignorant Americans into an exclusive, and fearful, audience.

precisely

25 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:03:11pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

It’s quite simple. You see. Fox News has been very antagonistic towards the Obama administration almost since day -365.

26 Charleston Chew  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:03:25pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That still leaves too many words for a television audience.

27 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:03:27pm

Well who DIDN’T know that FOX News was bad for the country?

28 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:10pm

I can’t wait for the Fox WH Correspondent to ask Gibbs about President Obama’s comment. I’m hoping Gibbs replies by saying, “Oh, just make something up…you’re good at that.”

29 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:21pm

re: #26 Charleston Chew

That still leaves too many words for a television audience.

I think Fox is part of that tradition — it is part of the tradition that has a very clear, undeniable point of view. It’s a point of view that I disagree with. It’s a point of view that I think is ultimately destructive.

30 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:29pm

re: #25 Gus 802

It’s quite simple. You see. Fox News has been very antagonistic towards the Obama administration almost since day -365.

How about we agree that none of the mainstream news sources are good for the American people?

31 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:36pm

What a fluff piece. The interview probably was like the Chris Farley
interviewing Paul McCartney skit on SNL.

32 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:49pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That he compares them to the Hearsts.

Clearly he’s an agent for the SLA!!11ty

/

33 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:04:50pm

fox puts beck on the air….nuff said
(olberdeuche gets cancelled out by hannity)

34 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:05:28pm

re: #25 Gus 802

It’s quite simple. You see. Fox News has been very antagonistic towards the Obama administration almost since day -365.

See Killgore’s page of Fox’s recently bad enough they had to scrub it webpost

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

35 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:05:45pm

re: #31 joest73

What a fluff piece. The interview probably was like the Chris Farley
interviewing Paul McCartney skit on SNL.

Well, Rolling Stone is pretty left-leaning, so it stands to reason that they’d lob a few softballs.

36 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:06:13pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

They are a generic news organization. Same with ABC, CBS, etc. Fox is something entirely different.

37 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:06:23pm

I still stand by my statement that Reason is the best news source in the country.

[Link: reason.com…]

38 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:06:25pm

re: #30 pharmmajor

How about we agree that none of the mainstream news sources are good for the American people?


And some are worse than others?

39 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:06:41pm

re: #30 pharmmajor

How about we agree that none of the mainstream news sources are good for the American people?

I hate the MSM and all their droolers….poison

40 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:06:46pm

re: #38 CarleeCork

And some are worse than others?

Well that goes without saying.

41 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:07:14pm

re: #31 joest73

you expected hard hitting journalism from rolling stone?
(magazine hasn’t been relevant in 25 years)

42 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:07:17pm

re: #31 joest73

What a fluff piece. The interview probably was like the Chris Farley
interviewing Paul McCartney skit on SNL.


[Video]

Yeah. Rolling Stone is known for its hard hitting interviews of politicians. You know their readership list politics as their number on interest right under what Lady Gaga wore last night.

43 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:07:28pm

re: #37 pharmmajor

I still stand by my statement that Reason is the best news source in the country.

[Link: reason.com…]

Perhaps you should broaden your reading. (:

44 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:08:23pm

re: #41 Boondock St. Bender

you expected hard hitting journalism from rolling stone?
(magazine hasn’t been relevant in 25 years)

Rolling Stone: Hard Hitting Journalism™

45 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:08:23pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Perhaps you should broaden your reading. (:

I’ve checked out the other news sources: CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ect; and I find Reason to be the best out of all of them.

46 webevintage  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:08:52pm

Of course this is the quote that’s got the Firebaggers in a uproar:

It is inexcusable for any Democrat or progressive right now to stand on the sidelines in this midterm election. There may be complaints about us not having gotten certain things done, not fast enough, making certain legislative compromises. But right now, we’ve got a choice between a Republican Party that has moved to the right of George Bush and is looking to lock in the same policies that got us into these disasters in the first place, versus an administration that, with some admitted warts, has been the most successful administration in a generation in moving progressive agendas forward.

The idea that we’ve got a lack of enthusiasm in the Democratic base, that people are sitting on their hands complaining, is just irresponsible…It has been hard, and we’ve got some lumps to show for it. But if people now want to take their ball and go home, that tells me folks weren’t serious in the first place.

Quite your bitching folks and man up…..

47 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:09:25pm

re: #45 pharmmajor

I’ve checked out the other news sources: CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ect; and I find Reason to be the best out of all of them.

Don’t make me repeat myself.

48 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:10:39pm

re: #46 webevintage

i like it.good for him!

49 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:10:49pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

See Killgore’s page of Fox’s recently bad enough they had to scrub it webpost

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Yeah, I saw that. Gawker saved a comment from there:

SINCE HE AIN’T IN THE ALOHA STATE ANYMORE, HE HAD TO TRADE IN THE COOL BREEZE, TASTY WAVES, AND FATTY BLUNTS FOR MENTHOL CIGARETTES, A CRACK PIPE AND GANGSTA RAP TO GET THROUGH THE HEAVY DAYS. HOPE HIS GIRLS DON’T TURN INTO RUMP SHAKIN’ BACKUP DANCERS… [eagletimberwolf]

50 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:10:57pm

But right now, we’ve got a choice between a Republican Party that has moved to the right of George Bush and is looking to lock in the same policies that got us into these disasters in the first place, versus an administration that, with some admitted warts, has been the most successful administration in a generation in moving progressive agendas forward.

bwahahaha!….total disconnect is pure humor

51 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:11:10pm

Reading Reason for it’s news content is like reading MAXIM for its insight on what women want.

52 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:11:43pm

re: #50 albusteve

But right now, we’ve got a choice between a Republican Party that has moved to the right of George Bush and is looking to lock in the same policies that got us into these disasters in the first place, versus an administration that, with some admitted warts, has been the most successful administration in a generation in moving progressive agendas forward.

bwahahaha!…total disconnect is pure humor

Why? He’s right. They have moved to the right of Bush.

53 Charleston Chew  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:11:55pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now just put that on a loop and get a hot blonde chick to look indignant and you’ve got yourself a job at Fox!

54 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:12:28pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I would think they’d take that as a compliment actually.

55 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:12:52pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Why? He’s right. They have moved to the right of Bush.

Beat me to it.

56 webevintage  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:13:05pm

re: #31 joest73

What a fluff piece. The interview probably was like the Chris Farley interviewing Paul McCartney skit on SNL.

Did you read whole thing?
Of course you didn’t….

Really people?
Rolling Stone sucks?
How about the work Matt Taibbi does and maybe you remember Gen. Stanley McChrystal?

57 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:13:35pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Why? He’s right. They have moved to the right of Bush.

That’s not saying much…Bush was never all that far right, he just put on a good act that the rubes fell for.

58 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:13:54pm

re: #51 PT Barnum

Reading Reason for it’s news content is like reading MAXIM for its insight on what women want.

And the attitude it instils in the reader is equally likely to land them a date.

59 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:15:10pm

re: #57 PT Barnum

That’s not saying much…Bush was never all that far right, he just put on a good act that the rubes fell for.

That’s true. I used to tell people that all the time — that Bush wasn’t really far right. So that being the case the GOP has turned way, way, way to the right of Bush.

60 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:15:15pm

re: #58 Renaissance_Man

And the attitude it instils in the reader is equally likely to land them a date.

Show me a guy who reads both Reason and Maxim, and I’ll show you a mega-douchebag

61 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:15:27pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Why? He’s right. They have moved to the right of Bush.

I liked the “admitted warts” understatement

62 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:16:00pm

re: #61 albusteve

I liked the “admitted warts” understatement

OK That was kind of, goofy.

63 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:16:40pm

re: #59 Gus 802

That’s true. I used to tell people that all the time — that Bush wasn’t really far right. So that being the case the GOP has turned way, way, way to the right of Bush.

The thing was, Bush wasn’t all that far left either..he was more along the authoritarian, my way or the highway school of thought that is the vertical axis to left and right.

64 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:17:58pm

re: #62 Gus 802

OK That was kind of, goofy.

I dunno, I think admitting that you haven’t done everything you wanted to is kind of refreshing compared to now being willing to admit you’ve ever made a mistake or could have done better.

65 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:18:04pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

MSNBC is not as biased and willing to lie as Fox.

66 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:18:07pm

re: #63 PT Barnum

The thing was, Bush wasn’t all that far left either..he was more along the authoritarian, my way or the highway school of thought that is the vertical axis to left and right.

Left? Bush? No way.

67 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:18:10pm

re: #61 albusteve

at least the man can form whole sentences as opposed to dubya’s mangling of the english language

68 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:20:50pm

re: #67 Boondock St. Bender

at least the man can form whole sentences as opposed to dubya’s mangling of the english language

BO is a political idiot, regardless of his command of language….fancy verbage will take you far around Chicago tho

69 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:21:06pm

re: #31 joest73

What a fluff piece. The interview probably was like the Chris Farley
interviewing Paul McCartney skit on SNL.


[Video]

Poor baby.

70 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:21:07pm

re: #66 Gus 802

Left? Bush? No way.

I don’t think he was left at all…

Probably more on a 13 degree angle between authoritarian and conservative..leaning more toward the authoritarian.

71 webevintage  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:21:41pm

re: #37 pharmmajor

I still stand by my statement that Reason is the best news source in the country.

My favorite rant about Reason from John Cole:

Somewhere around the time I cracked the second bottle of wine I started watching Blade Runner, and the scene where Leon was told “The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping…” I yelled out “give the fucker a tax cut and tell him to pull himself up by his boot straps.”
I’m seriously psyched about all these teahadist victories, and I want each and everyone of you to vow to help me to never let anyone forget that the jerkoffs at Reason have been pimping the tea parties from day one. I wonder how Angle, O’Donnell, and Miller feel about marijuana legalization, John Stagliano’s occupation, torture, civil liberties, no-knock raids, warrentless wiretaps, military adventurism, and all those things you all pretend to care about?
Oh, you’re gonna get your limited government, Christian style, and you’re gonna get it good, you morons- I may even chip in for the wetsuits and dildo for you special cases at Hit and Run. I can’t blame crazy people for being bat shit crazy, but I sure as hell can heap some scorn on pricks like the Reason writers for running rhetorical cover for the lunatics and helping to mainstream their insanity (I know, I know- you don’t PERSONALLY believe Obama is a Kenyan!). Y’all might as well write for Red State.
I just hope you chumps lose the leather jackets and designer wayfarer prescription specs, because those look vaguely French. Your days of esoterically talking about the virtues of Ayn Rand at DC wine and cheese parties are over, because you’re now bitches for Real ‘Murrika. Yeefuckinghaw! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
Douchebags.

yeah….

72 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:22:02pm

I live in Atlanta and we have a deranged AM radio idiot named Neil Boortz here.

He is wrong 99% of the time.

Obama “will take yer guns and install the Fairness Doctrine and take yer 401k’s from you to pay for crack babies!”

Boortz is a fucking idiot.

73 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:22:13pm

re: #68 albusteve

BO is a political idiot, regardless of his command of language…fancy verbage will take you far around Chicago tho

Political idiots do not get elected to the office of President of the United States.

Except maybe Nixon.

74 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:22:21pm

re: #68 albusteve

BO is a political idiot, regardless of his command of language…fancy verbage will take you far around Chicago tho

Oh, big deal. Bush did OK and Obama’s doing OK.

75 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:22:50pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Yeah, I saw that. Gawker saved a comment from there:

I actually like that comment - it sounds like a liberal making fun of ODS cases.

Unfortunately, it’s not. But I’ll pretend that it was.

76 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:22:54pm

re: #39 albusteve

I hate the MSM and all their droolers…poison

What do you like Steve?

77 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:23:33pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Political idiots do not get elected to the office of President of the United States.

Except maybe Nixon.

just wait til they swear in Palin…I’ll keep the smelling salts handy for you

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:24:01pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

Seriously, have you SEEN Fox recently?

79 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:24:16pm

re: #77 albusteve

just wait til they swear in Palin…I’ll keep the smelling salts handy for you

Good. I will need them. I will come and get them.

80 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:24:37pm

So MSNBC is the Magical Balance Fairy Question?

Really?

81 Liberal Classic  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:25:17pm

Everyone has a point of view. Fox, Pacifica, NPR, CNN, etc. Consider the source.

82 pharmmajor  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:25:17pm

re: #71 webevintage

My favorite rant about Reason from John Cole:

yeah…

Well, Cole is a dolt who’s lumping in Libertarians and Reason with the right-wing.

83 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:25:32pm

re: #76 b_sharp

What do you like Steve?

I do not indulge in television with regard to news, events, or politics…I’m a jaded waste that could care less….in fact, I see the problem resting that those that do

84 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:25:59pm

re: #65 b_sharp

MSNBC is not as biased and willing to lie as Fox.

More to the point, MSNBC clearly is attempting to emulate the FOX model of opinutainment. However, it will never be as successful, for several reasons. One of them is that it has not yet crossed the line into totally making shit up, and thus does not create an immersive, artificial world that its followers never have to leave. Furthermore, it does not have allied media that reinforce this particular worldview, such as talk radio and a blogosphere; much as some like to believe that ‘the left’ is just as monolithic as ‘the right’, the fake world promoted by FOX and the rest of the Conservative cult media is particularly notable for the repetitiveness of the messages and memes, and little to no variation in the dogma can be found across all the media types. This sort of total virtual reality experience is not found with MSNBC. Finally, the target audience is simply not as universally gullible, or more precisely, not as universally primed and ready to have their preconceived opinions reinforced.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:26:14pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Yeah, I saw that. Gawker saved a comment from there:

I think news sites in general just shouldn’t have open comments. They’re all too scary.

86 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:26:27pm

re: #41 Boondock St. Bender

you expected hard hitting journalism from rolling stone?
(magazine hasn’t been relevant in 25 years)

Well, they published that interview that earn McCrystal the sack. I’d call that relevant.

87 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:26:58pm

re: #80 Gus 802

So MSNBC is the Magical Balance Fairy Question?

Really?

I know I can’t stand Olbermann, but my cable company has never offered MSNBC anyway.

88 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:27:39pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

anonymity makes the crazies brave

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:27:54pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Why? He’s right. They have moved to the right of Bush.

More precisely, they’ve gone so far to the right that Bush can no longer see them, and is getting worried about their safety.

90 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:28:32pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously, have you SEEN Fox recently?

Yes and MSNBC is just as biased as Fox News.
Who could forget this….

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:29:55pm

re: #68 albusteve

BO is a political idiot, regardless of his command of language…fancy verbage will take you far around Chicago tho

Jaysus, will ya pick a meme already? Either the man is a stumbling rube, or he’s a slick product of the killer Chicago thug tradition. BOTH is just too much.

92 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:30:28pm

re: #81 Liberal Classic

Everyone has a point of view. Fox, Pacifica, NPR, CNN, etc. Consider the source.


But FAUX is the ONLY ‘major media’ to have donated to R’s only. C’mon folks, it’s not hard to see that FAUX is the GOP channel.

93 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:30:38pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

ok one story surrounded by years of fluff.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:31:05pm

re: #77 albusteve

just wait til they swear in Palin…I’ll keep the smelling salts handy for you

I can get smelling salts at the makolet in Ramat Gan, not to worry.

95 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:31:07pm

re: #90 joest73

Yes and MSNBC is just as biased as Fox News.
Who could forget this…

[Video]

The way MSNBC cut that video to edit out the fact that the only AR-15 at that event was being carried by a black man was very bad, that cannot be denied. It’s hard to see it as in the same vein as Andrew Breitbart and Alan Grayson.

96 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:31:17pm

re: #71 webevintage

My favorite rant about Reason from John Cole:

yeah…

Bravo!

97 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:31:32pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

Well, they published that interview that earn McCrystal the sack. I’d call that relevant.

what a scoop, eh?

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:32:33pm

re: #92 CarleeCork

But FAUX is the ONLY ‘major media’ to have donated to R’s only. C’mon folks, it’s not hard to see that FAUX is the GOP channel.

Have you seen the donation patterns for the other networks? 90+% to the Democrats, going back decades.

99 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:32:38pm

re: #76 b_sharp

What do you like Steve?

The fucking Dallas Cowboys!

100 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:32:50pm

re: #90 joest73

no shit,but right now we’re talking about how fox spins it(and folds spindles and mutilates)
once again glen beck….there can be no forgiveness

101 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:32:51pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I think news sites in general just shouldn’t have open comments. They’re all too scary.

but it generates mega $$$…the bottom line

102 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:32:53pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Jaysus, will ya pick a meme already? Either the man is a stumbling rube, or he’s a slick product of the killer Chicago thug tradition. BOTH is just too much.

Just like the UN - a totally ineffective paper tiger that somehow also manages to be the greatest, most evil threat to our sovereignty at the same time!

103 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:33:08pm

re: #97 albusteve

what a scoop, eh?

Hi, Steve.

104 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:33:21pm

re: #90 joest73

Yes and MSNBC is just as biased as Fox News.
Who could forget this…

[Video]

And how many blacks belong to Freedom’s Phoenix and 4409?

105 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:33:42pm

re: #93 Boondock St. Bender

Adam Lambert came out in RS. That was news.
//

106 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:33:53pm

re: #90 joest73

Are you aware that the black guy was there representing a group called 4409 which at the time had White Power symbols on their web page and links to white nationalist radio shows and websites?

107 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:34:09pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Have you seen the donation patterns for the other networks? 90+% to the Democrats, going back decades.


The actual company or the employees? Link please.

108 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:34:22pm

Let’s take a look back to the AR15 gun stunt shall we:

The Freaks Behind the Arizona Gun Stunt
Charles Johnson
US News • Aug 18, 2009 at 9:30 am PDT • Views: 6

The people who showed up at the Obama rally in Arizona yesterday with semi-automatic rifles are part of a hate group called “4409,” a bugeyed insane gang of paleo-libertarian Ron Paul supporters who believe in every conspiracy theory under the sun. They’re 9/11 Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones fans — name a conspiracy theory, they believe it.

Their website contains advertisements for white supremacist militias and Rand Paul (son of Ron Paul). I won’t link directly to these kinds of extremist hate sites, but here’s Google’s cache of the page where they posted video of their jackass stunt: 4409 — Brother carries AR-15 Rifle at Obamabot Rally.

Notice in the video clip of their headquarters (probably somebody’s garage), the big sign on the wall that says “Vaccines = Poison.”

109 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:34:48pm

re: #102 Renaissance_Man

Just like the UN - a totally ineffective paper tiger that somehow also manages to be the greatest, most evil threat to our sovereignty at the same time!

Fundies and wingnuts hate the UN… yet the UN put Israel on the map.

Irony - lost on the Newt Gingriches of the world.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:34:51pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Have you seen the donation patterns for the other networks? 90+% to the Democrats, going back decades.

Are we talking here about donations by the network, or by the employees of the network?

111 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:35:10pm

re: #90 joest73

Yes and MSNBC is just as biased as Fox News.
Who could forget this…

[Video]

That’s pretty bad. But Fox has Glenn Beck. There is no left-wing equivalent to Glenn Beck… like anywhere, at this moment.

112 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:35:11pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Hi, Steve.

howdy bro

113 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:35:53pm

re: #112 albusteve

I was wondering about you while I was gone. How are you feeling?

114 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:01pm

re: #99 Stanley Sea

The fucking Dallas Cowboys!

He likes Broke Back Mountain!?!?!

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:10pm

re: #109 Linden Arden

Fundies and wingnuts hate the UN… yet the UN put Israel on the map.

Irony - lost on the Newt Gingriches of the world.

It’s also passed more resolutions criticizing Israel than it has China, since then.

116 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:12pm

Yep, 4409. AR15

MSNBC didn’t even have half the story about those nuts.

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:32pm

re: #111 Vambo

That’s pretty bad. But Fox has Glenn Beck. There is no left-wing equivalent to Glenn Beck… like anywhere, at this moment.

Thank God, because if and when we get one, I’m not going to be happy.

118 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:33pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Yo, SFZ.
Would you mind sending me an e-mail?
Click my avatar, the e-mail addy is in my profile info.
Thank you

119 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:35pm

re: #112 albusteve

howdy bro

Hi Steve! Hope today finds you feeling better

120 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:36:41pm

re: #109 Linden Arden

Fundies and wingnuts hate the UN… yet the UN put Israel on the map.

Irony - lost on the Newt Gingriches of the world.

what blather…I’m neither and I have good reason to hate the UN

121 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:16pm

re: #114 sattv4u2

He likes Broke Back Mountain!?!?!

GTFOH you cupcake

122 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:18pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Yep, 4409. AR15

MSNBC didn’t even have half the story about those nuts.

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]

Oh look! More crazy shit from AR15 guy’s group:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]

123 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:27pm

re: #111 Vambo

as i said before olberdeuche gets cancelled out by hannity.
fox has by far the largest amount of talking head idiots.

124 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:33pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

The way MSNBC cut that video to edit out the fact that the only AR-15 at that event was being carried by a black man was very bad, that cannot be denied. It’s hard to see it as in the same vein as Andrew Breitbart and Alan Grayson.

Funny you compared it to Andrew Breitbart and the Alan Grayson ad. I was thinking the same thing. I would put the MSNBC edit above the Grayson ad but nowhere near some of the things Breitbart has pulled.

125 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:37pm

re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank God, because if and when we get one, I’m not going to be happy.


I just want us to get our own Karl Rove.

126 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:37:43pm

re: #121 albusteve

GTFOH you cupcake

SMOOOOCH!

127 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:38:17pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Are we talking here about donations by the network, or by the employees of the network?

Employees of the network.

128 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:38:33pm

re: #113 theheat

I was wondering about you while I was gone. How are you feeling?

unbalanced….when I do my backflips, I end up way over to the left somewhere

129 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #125 CarleeCork

I just want us to get our own Karl Rove.

You had the triumverate back in the 90’s

Carville, Bagala and Stephanopoulous

The men behind the man

The 1st two are still running campaings

130 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:39:40pm

re: #119 HoosierHoops

Hi Steve! Hope today finds you feeling better

I do…thanks
are you in OKC yet?

131 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:11pm

re: #128 albusteve

Left? Did you say you’re leaning left? Then come sit by me.

132 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:43pm

re: #128 albusteve

unbalanced…when I do my backflips, I end up way over to the left somewhere

There’s HOPE!!

133 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:44pm

re: #124 joest73

Funny you compared it to Andrew Breitbart and the Alan Grayson ad. I was thinking the same thing. I would put the MSNBC edit above the Grayson ad but nowhere near some of the things Breitbart has pulled.

I’d agree with that. MSNBC’s video at least accurately showed the politics and nature of the rally, which Breitbart did not.

134 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:45pm

re: #125 CarleeCork

re: #129 sattv4u2

You had the triumverate back in the 90’s

Carville, Bagala and Stephanopoulous

The men behind the man

The 1st two are still running campaings

hell ,, for that matter, back in the late 50’s/ early 60’s we had Joe Kennedy pulling the strings from the shadows

This (Rove) is nothing new

135 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:48pm

re: #120 albusteve

what blather…I’m neither and I have good reason to hate the UN

I agree that the UN is pretty much worthless today.

But “hate” them?

136 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:41:39pm

re: #125 CarleeCork

the tea baggers brought rove to heel
was hoping he would make a stand,but they broke him

137 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:41:47pm

re: #130 albusteve

I do…thanks
are you in OKC yet?

T-36 hours! Road trip with the Dog..I’m in a Hotel filled with suitcases and junk to pack into the car…

138 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:42:18pm

re: #129 sattv4u2

You had the triumverate back in the 90’s

Carville, Bagala and Stephanopoulous

The men behind the man

The 1st two are still running campaings


They are not near as slimy as Rove. IMO

139 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:42:29pm

re: #135 Linden Arden

I agree that the UN is pretty much worthless today.

But “hate” them?

yes, hate them…they should be sent packing from our shores…..American affiliation with the UN is a disgrace

140 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:42:56pm

“Slow Turning” for AlbuSteve~~~

141 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:42:58pm

re: #138 CarleeCork

They are not near as slimy as Rove. IMO

That was the important part

Now , from where I’m sitting ,,,,,,,,

142 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:43:20pm

re: #138 CarleeCork

they’re in politics….yes they are just as slimy.

143 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:43:40pm

re: #142 Boondock St. Bender

they’re in politics…yes they are just as slimy.

Bing
and Go

144 albusteve  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:44:01pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

T-36 hours! Road trip with the Dog..I’m in a Hotel filled with suitcases and junk to pack into the car…

what a life eh?….I wish you well on your new adventure
and btw…dogs love that stuff

145 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:44:08pm

Pretty amazing speech by Arnold Schwarzenegger today. He blasted the oil industry for standing in the way of climate change legislation, and named names.

146 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:44:12pm

re: #134 sattv4u2
I didn’t pay attention to politics until Dubya took office. Hell, I voted for him the first time he ran for governor of Texas. I apologize for my error.

147 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:44:41pm

re: #142 Boondock St. Bender

they’re in politics…yes they are just as slimy.

“my puppet master is okay, because he helped my guy win
Yours is slimy, because he helped my guy lose!”

148 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:45:02pm

re: #145 Charles

RINO!!1!!11 eleventy

149 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:45:50pm

re: #148 Boondock St. Bender

RINO!!1!!11 eleventy

Oil companies are people too!!11ty

Class war!!11ty

150 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:46:05pm

re: #145 Charles

He’s been feeling his oats lately. He also made a Palin joke the other day, about looking to see Russia from a plane over Alaska.

Unfortunately, he’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with the dimwit assholes at the RNC, per usual.

151 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #145 Charles

Pretty amazing speech by Arnold Schwarzenegger today. He blasted the oil industry for standing in the way of climate change legislation, and named names.

Obviously one of those weak willed moderate whores in the GOP that Rush Limbaugh has been warning us about.

152 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:46:50pm

Drudge:

Breaking! Arnold Schwarzenegger nationalizes oil industry in California. Obama mobilizes troops.

//

153 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:46:50pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

Stephanopoulous looks like a cute lil muppet!he can’t be bad!
carville is circus ugly…there goes that…

154 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:47:11pm

re: #145 Charles

Pretty amazing speech by Arnold Schwarzenegger today. He blasted the oil industry for standing in the way of climate change legislation, and named names.

He can lay the (verbal) lumber pretty well

When he was 1st running his stump speeches were full of how he was going to kick ass and take names

155 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:47:40pm

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, because Rush reeks of masculinity and steeliness.
//

156 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:47:45pm

re: #145 Charles

Arnold was, IIRC, the last Republican for which I voted.

He has his own charisma and status and thus doesn’t need to suck up to the monied interests that bankroll so many GOP candidates.

He’s been far from perfect as a Governor, but I doubt anyone else could have done much better.

157 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:48:47pm

re: #155 theheat

sure the way he took charge and sent his housekeeper to get his oxycotin

158 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:49:15pm

re: #153 Boondock St. Bender

Stephanopoulous looks like a cute lil muppet!he can’t be bad!
carville is circus ugly…there goes that…

My 1st run in with Stephanopolous was back when he was staring out with Mike Dukakis in Massachusetts
Choir Boy Looks
Deadly Serious Player

159 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:49:26pm

re: #157 Boondock St. Bender

And carried Viagra for a “friend.”

160 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:49:35pm

re: #155 theheat

Yeah, because Rush reeks of masculinity and steeliness.
//

Rush used his anal warts as an excuse to evade the military.

What a guy… . .. .. …

161 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:49:38pm

The Governor the entrenched Democratically controlled legislature beat down to a shadow.

162 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:49:48pm

re: #156 freetoken

Arnold was, IIRC, the last Republican for which I voted.

He has his own charisma and status and thus doesn’t need to suck up to the monied interests that bankroll so many GOP candidates.

He’s been far from perfect as a Governor, but I doubt anyone else could have done much better.

Ca is fucked up……. you’re right, no one is going to be able to fix it in my lifetime.

163 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:50:07pm

re: #158 sattv4u2

you don’t get that job by being nice.

164 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:50:17pm

re: #138 CarleeCork

They are not near as slimy as Rove. IMO

And I disagree with your opinion.

165 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:51:04pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

And I disagree with your opinion.


That’s cool with me. You know what they say about opinions.

166 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:51:18pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

The Governor the entrenched Democratically controlled legislature beat down to a shadow.

He tried to push through too much too fast and lost his popularity advantage. Once it was gone, he had nothing left.

167 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:51:32pm

OT but !!!

Tonight is the first of 2 part new Ken Burns’ “The Tenth Inning” on PBS

[Link: www.pbs.org…]

168 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:51:40pm

re: #160 Linden Arden

Rush used his anal warts as an excuse to evade the military.

What a guy… .. .. …

must…leave…alone…arghhh!

169 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:52:10pm

What did anyone expect. They threw him a softball. He answered exactly as expected. So? He’s a Dem. What was he supposed to say? Boring.

170 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:52:10pm

re: #160 Linden Arden

Rush used his anal warts as an excuse to evade the military.

What a guy… .. .. …

A stupid pilonidal cyst.

Butt pus.

171 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:52:14pm

also from Rolling Stone…

Matt Taibbi on the Tea Party:
[Link: www.rollingstone.com…]

172 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:52:53pm

re: #166 Dark_Falcon

He tried to push through too much too fast and lost his popularity advantage. Once it was gone, he had nothing left.

Hobsons choice-If he had moved incrementally the momentum would have evaporated away.

173 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:53:10pm

re: #170 Renaissance_Man

A stupid pilonidal cyst.

Butt pus.


Ewwwwww! Nasty.

174 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:53:30pm

re: #168 Boondock St. Bender

As my girlfirends and I would say, the thought of having sex with a fat guy with anal warts and a Viagra-needing peen is like dessert - if dessert was chocolate cake with maggots.

Pass.

175 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:53:51pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

OT but !!!

Tonight is the first of 2 part new Ken Burns’ “The Tenth Inning” on PBS

[Link: www.pbs.org…]

Thank you! Hotel TV sucks..You just made my night

176 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:54:09pm

re: #170 Renaissance_Man

A stupid pilonidal cyst.

Butt pus.

It obviously overran his whole system.

Of course, that line was funnier in the typo when I said hole system.

177 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:56:19pm

re: #174 theheat

ACK! gotta scrub that image!

178 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:56:42pm

re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It obviously overran his whole system.

Of course, that line was funnier in the typo when I said hole system.

Why did you correct it?

179 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:58:01pm

Good night all, the hubby beckons and I must submit.

//

180 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:58:06pm

re: #178 b_sharp

grammer police are everywhere….(shifts eyes from left to right)

181 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:58:48pm

re: #178 b_sharp

Why did you correct it?

What? And risk the wrath of the Grammar Police?

182 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:59:18pm

re: #180 Boondock St. Bender

grammer police are everywhere…(shifts eyes from left to right)

But humour trumps all.

183 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:59:22pm

re: #179 CarleeCork

thats a couple of threads back….
have a good night,and a great tomorrow!

184 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:59:24pm

re: #180 Boondock St. Bender

grammer police are everywhere…(shifts eyes from left to right)

*grammar

Book him Danno.

185 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:59:31pm

re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It obviously overran his whole system.

Of course, that line was funnier in the typo when I said hole system.

Pilonidal cysts arise in people whose arses are exceptionally fat, or hairy, or both. (No offense to any who may be reading this and belong to the small percentage of people who happen to develop them congenitally.) They are painful, embarrassing, and the treatment involves 10 minutes with a scalpel and shaving your arse. Enough to get out of the draft? Apparently.

Then again, the Founding Fathers may have said, ‘Give me liberty or give me butt pus!’ Who knows.

186 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:59:48pm

re: #177 Boondock St. Bender

ACK! gotta scrub that image!

Try this delicacy!

187 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:00:15pm

re: #182 b_sharp

one would think,but ,the grammer police have no sense of humor.

188 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:00:30pm

re: #172 Rightwingconspirator

Hobsons choice-If he had moved incrementally the momentum would have evaporated away.

True. Doubtful anyone can really reform California until its hits rock bottom and maybe not even then. The tax eaters run that state now.

189 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:00:37pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What? And risk the wrath of the Grammar Police?

We have grammarians?

190 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:01:00pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

that’s bait to draw them out…..

191 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:01:15pm

re: #186 Mr Pancakes

Maggot breath, but without the cake.

192 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:02:37pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

True. Doubtful anyone can really reform California until its hits rock bottom and maybe not even then. The tax eaters run that state now.

So what about the rest of the country?

193 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:02:43pm

re: #190 Boondock St. Bender

that’s bait to draw them out…

They always say that.

194 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:02:49pm

re: #169 Escaped Hillbilly

Pitching Softballs!

But I thought Obama was a basketball guy?

195 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:02:58pm

re: #27 pharmmajor

Well who DIDN’T know that FOX News was bad for the country?

Me. You guys are starting to act like the people you make so much fun of. A softball question lobbed back as expected and your jumping up and down about it. You absolutely refuse to believe there are intelligent people who enjoy watching FOX and aren’t completely insane. Get over yourselves. There is a reason it is so popular. Not all of their viewers are rabid tea partiers. The more you make fun of them, the more people turn against YOU. I think I am perfectly capable of separating the absurd and unbelievable from the true. I have been doing it for years. Back when there were all of 3 channels to chose from, no one believed 60 Minutes sometimes made shit up. Guess what? I used to get frustrated watching a presidential address and then watching the “anchorman” come on a claim he said the complete opposite as if I hadn’t just watched it. More competition, more competing view points, better, and better. Gimme CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CSPAN, BBC…all of them. Yeah, even Al Jazeera.

196 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:03:12pm

re: #187 Boondock St. Bender

one would think,but ,the grammer police have no sense of humor.

Et tu, Bender?

197 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:03:35pm

Limbaugh is a disgusting piece of shit yet the media backs off his lies.

Yet his lies are well documented — [Link: mediamatters.org…]

198 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:03:59pm

Brown vs. Whitman

[Link: www.mercurynews.com…]

199 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:04:39pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

True. Doubtful anyone can really reform California until its hits rock bottom and maybe not even then. The tax eaters run that state now.

Jerry Brown is leading in the polls, yet (despite his party of origin) running on a fiscal conservative platform. I just do not find that credible. Whether he accepts the salary, or eschews the mansion or not. Of course it’s kinda hard to spend 119 million on a job that will pay one million and claim fiscal wisdom…

200 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:05:16pm

re: #175 HoosierHoops

Thank you! Hotel TV sucks..You just made my night

Excellent!!

201 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:05:23pm

re: #192 brookly red

So what about the rest of the country?

As goes California so goes the nation.

202 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:05:45pm

re: #199 Rightwingconspirator

Jerry Brown is leading in the polls, yet (despite his party of origin) running on a fiscal conservative platform. I just do not find that credible. Whether he accepts the salary, or eschews the mansion or not. Of course it’s kinda hard to spend 119 million on a job that will pay one million and claim fiscal wisdom…

I won’t be voting for him or Meg.

203 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:06:30pm

re: #192 brookly red

So what about the rest of the country?

Tax eaters ain’t gonna be running the House come January. And they’re not going to be running the Illinois Statehouse, either.

204 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:06:53pm

re: #201 Rightwingconspirator

As goes California so goes the nation.

I just don’t see that…

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:06:59pm

re: #118 reine.de.tout

Yo, SFZ.
Would you mind sending me an e-mail?
Click my avatar, the e-mail addy is in my profile info.
Thank you

DOne.

206 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07:08pm
207 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07:41pm

re: #202 Mr Pancakes

I won’t be voting for him or Meg.

Are you going to skip the Governor selection on the ballot?

208 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:08:19pm

re: #204 brookly red

I just don’t see that…

It’s true….. your beloved pizza is next.

209 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:08:43pm

re: #207 freetoken

Are you going to skip the Governor selection on the ballot?

Yes

210 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:08:54pm

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

Tax eaters ain’t gonna be running the House come January. And they’re not going to be running the Illinois Statehouse, either.

God willing…

211 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:09:24pm

re: #206 Killgore Trout

We’ve taken over canid evolution.

212 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:09:58pm

re: #209 Mr Pancakes

I’ve skipped plenty of races on ballots over the years.

213 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:10:07pm

Brown-Whitman debate is on. Jerry states facts, and Meg tries a personal dig in discussing how to balance the budget. This is going to be fucking awesome.

214 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:10pm

re: #198 Gus 802

Brown vs. Whitman

[Link: www.mercurynews.com…]

I’m sorry, so far Jerry Brown is one smart dude. Meg Whitman is a sound bite.

215 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:12pm

re: #213 darthstar

online streaming?

216 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:18pm

re: #213 darthstar

Brown-Whitman debate is on. Jerry states facts, and Meg tries a personal dig in discussing how to balance the budget. This is going to be fucking awesome.

She has 119 million of her own money into this race. Then she has the nerve to talk about Brown’s special interests? Gee, must be easy for her to avoid that considering she’s bank rolling her own self.

217 Decider  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:20pm

but..but..Fox News is “Fair and Balanced”…Damn Liberal media…

218 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:42pm

re: #212 freetoken

I’ve skipped plenty of races on ballots over the years.

I’ll vote for Carly Fiorina though…… although I’m not a big supporter of hers.

219 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:11:55pm

live stream here:
[Link: debate.ucdavis.edu…]

220 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:12:13pm

re: #218 Mr Pancakes

I’ll vote for Carly Fiorina though… although I’m not a big supporter of hers.

The Demon Sheep ad must have worked.

221 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:12:35pm

re: #219 darthstar

thanks

222 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:12:38pm

re: #215 freetoken

online streaming?

right above your comment

223 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:13:09pm

re: #216 Gus 802

She has 119 million of her own money into this race. Then she has the nerve to talk about Brown’s special interests? Gee, must be easy for her to avoid that considering she’s bank rolling her own self.

She’s coming across as a total bitch right now…and Brown is simply talking about his record.

224 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:13:21pm

re: #211 freetoken

We’ve taken over canid evolution.

We have? Who knew!

Oh, wait…

Image: img013biglittledogfxwb_1.jpg

225 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:13:25pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Demon Sheep ad must have worked.

Not sure what that is……. I don’t like Barbara Boxer.

226 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:14:24pm

re: #216 Gus 802

She has 119 million of her own money into this race. Then she has the nerve to talk about Brown’s special interests? Gee, must be easy for her to avoid that considering she’s bank rolling her own self.

well yeah it does make sense…
for example I can’t stand Bloomberg, but it’s not like he owes any favors.

227 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:14:42pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

And I disagree with your opinion.

Did any of those three betray the identity of a CIA covert operative in a partisan attack against that operative’s spouse? Rove is a greasy, treasonous, slithering pile of shit, despite your unwillingness to recognize that fact.

228 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:14:52pm

sound bites

229 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:15:31pm

re: #226 brookly red

well yeah it does make sense…
for example I can’t stand Bloomberg, but it’s not like he owes any favors.

I have a lot of issues with Bloomberg regarding how and why he’s mayor. But, I live in Denver so it’s rather passive.

230 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:02pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Demon Sheep ad must have worked.

Better a Demon Sheep than a Rabid Bitch. Boxer is just such a bitch.

231 Decider  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #195 Escaped Hillbilly

You absolutely refuse to believe there are intelligent people who enjoy watching FOX and aren’t completely insane.

Simply not possible.

Fox News is popular among the blue hairs who have not discovered “The Internets and the The Google” and completely insane morons. How can you possible argue that a sane person can watch Sean Hannity?

232 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:30pm

Meg is making solid points about getting California less small biz/mfg hostile.

233 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:36pm

It’s depressing to watch two politicians dancing in front of a train wreck.

234 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:50pm

re: #229 Gus 802

I have a lot of issues with Bloomberg regarding how and why he’s mayor. But, I live in Denver so it’s rather passive.

my fear is that he will run in 2012… and yes it is fear.

235 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:57pm

Whitman sounds much more confident than Brown, in the debate, so far.

236 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:16:59pm

George Bush playbook? I had no idea Meg wanted to invade Iraq!

237 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:17:07pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

Hark what’s pitter patter of wings? I do believe it to be the magic balance fairy, and only four posts in to!

238 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:17:07pm

re: #233 freetoken

Not if you’re rooting for the train…

239 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:18:09pm

Tougher than normal questioner, though.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:18:22pm

re: #225 Mr Pancakes

Not sure what that is… I don’t like Barbara Boxer.

Regardless of your political leanings, you have to see this. It’s the funniest political ad I have ever seen.

241 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:19:07pm

re: #171 Vambo

also from Rolling Stone…

Matt Taibbi on the Tea Party:
[Link: www.rollingstone.com…]

Ha! he says “they are full of shit, all of them.”

242 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:19:18pm

To heck with that. Come to Colorado!

/

243 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:19:27pm

“This is not something that will be turned around overnight”…Yes, Jerry…that is true.

Meg’s jaw is getting tight.

Praising Texas again…she must be a secessionist like Perry.

244 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:19:57pm

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

245 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:20:43pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

Yeah. It’s too simplistic. Lower the manufacturing equipment tax and they will come! Won’t work that way.

246 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:20:49pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

and 700K here in Silicone Valley.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:20:58pm

re: #243 darthstar

“This is not something that will be turned around overnight”…Yes, Jerry…that is true.

Meg’s jaw is getting tight.

Praising Texas again…she must be a secessionist like Perry.

It’s an ongoing theme in California politics. “If we were more like Texas, the economy would improve.”

248 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:20:59pm

BTW my grandfather gave Jerry’s daddy an envelope of cash long ago to get an uncontested bill signed raising interest on pawn loans.

249 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:21:12pm

OK, Brown’s “I’m the best pension buy you’ve ever seen” comment was funny!

250 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:21:48pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

Also leasing and purchasing facility space. She won’t be able to lower the price on that. It will still be cheaper to open up manufacturing space in say Colorado.

251 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:09pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

well it seems that plenty of people with low income live there…

252 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:12pm

EBay…lol

253 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:36pm

re: #231 Decider

I don’t have blue hair yet. And I am not insane. In fact, FOX is extremely popular with the military. Wonder why?
Look, I don’t think they’re a sterling example of literary greatness. But they represent something that had been missing from journalism for a long time. You may not realize it, but before they started competing, the news was unrepentently and consistently biased against the military, the government in general and esp Republicans and Conservatives. Since they came on the scene, the other news providers had to slide back a bit right to hang on to viewers. Even if they do nothing else, they keep the other providers on their toes. Competition is a good thing.

254 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:36pm

Whitman: “You can not be beholden to the public sector employees” - what she means is, “You can not be beholden to the public.”

255 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:37pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

Houses under $200,000 abound here now. Riverside county, Temecula area…

256 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:52pm

re: #251 brookly red

well it seems that plenty of people with low income live there…

33 million people live here… we’ve got everybody from the very richest to among the poorest.

257 Linden Arden  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:22:57pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

Fannie Mae could only buy conforming loans - which in 2005 had a $330,000 top end.

The Cali market has stood up pretty well all things considered.

258 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:23:22pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s an ongoing theme in California politics. “If we were more like Texas, the economy would improve.”

Maybe you can buy the Cowboys?

259 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:23:25pm

re: #255 Rightwingconspirator

Houses under $200,000 abound here now. Riverside county, Temecula area…

And a 60 mile per way trip to work in San Diego or Orange county.

260 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:23:37pm

That’s the second time she’s been asked to specify after her vague answer.

261 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:23:40pm

re: #254 darthstar

That is just not true. Fixed benefit pensions are insanely irresponsible.

262 theheat  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:23:45pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I couldn’t take the plummeting of IQs and bible-beating. I’d rather be broke. I guess I just ain’t a Real American or sumthin.

Been to Texas. And Oklahoma. Lived there. There’s a reason I don’t still live there.

No offense to austin blue, etc.

263 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:24:10pm

re: #259 freetoken

On a train if you like. Metrolink.

264 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:24:31pm

re: #237 jamesfirecat

Hark what’s pitter patter of wings? I do believe it to be the magic balance fairy, and only four posts in to!

Reasonable question. Not about balance but…WHY ASK the question in the first place? What purpose did it serve? Since when do we ask the President what he thinks of this or that news provider or entertainment company? Really? They were hoping he’d say something inflammatory. He answered safely.

265 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:24:37pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

DOne.

replied. check yours.

266 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:24:59pm

re: #259 freetoken

And a 60 mile per way trip to work in San Diego or Orange county.

Why not San Bernardino? Ontario area?

267 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:25:56pm

A none voter running for governor?

268 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:26:18pm

re: #267 Gus 802

Non-voter that is.

269 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:26:19pm

re: #256 freetoken

33 million people live here… we’ve got everybody from the very richest to among the poorest.

Where else in the lower 48 can you squat? You can here in California!

270 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:26:24pm

re: #267 Gus 802

A none voter running for governor?

she didn’t vote in like 15 years? pulling that from memory.

271 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:26:26pm

re: #266 Rightwingconspirator

No doubt some do. Many work locally, too. But many also have to make a long commute.

I preferred Temecula when it was countryside… a beautiful trip on the north side of Mt. Palomar.

272 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:26:48pm

Whitman just did a great job, shifting the focus off her voting record.

273 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:27:16pm

lol

274 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:28:18pm

re: #253 Escaped Hillbilly

I don’t have blue hair yet. And I am not insane. In fact, FOX is extremely popular with the military. Wonder why?
Look, I don’t think they’re a sterling example of literary greatness. But they represent something that had been missing from journalism for a long time. You may not realize it, but before they started competing, the news was unrepentently and consistently biased against the military, the government in general and esp Republicans and Conservatives. Since they came on the scene, the other news providers had to slide back a bit right to hang on to viewers. Even if they do nothing else, they keep the other providers on their toes. Competition is a good thing.

wow that is the bravest thing I have ever heard here…

275 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:28:35pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

That is just not true. Fixed benefit pensions are insanely irresponsible.

Mom gets California retirement bene’s.
They are beyond insane.
NO ONE gets bene’s like the state employees do.

OOH, he mentioned his voting record!
Zing!

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:29:05pm

re: #267 Gus 802

A none voter running for governor?

There’s been a lot of criticism about that.

277 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:29:26pm

re: #274 brookly red

? Me? How so?

278 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:29:42pm

re: #264 Escaped Hillbilly

Reasonable question. Not about balance but…WHY ASK the question in the first place? What purpose did it serve? Since when do we ask the President what he thinks of this or that news provider or entertainment company? Really? They were hoping he’d say something inflammatory. He answered safely.

Since one new organization has a 90% 24/7 partisan slant. He’s right, Murdoch is just like Hearst.

279 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:29:43pm

re: #271 freetoken

No doubt some do. Many work locally, too. But many also have to make a long commute.

I preferred Temecula when it was countryside… a beautiful trip on the north side of Mt. Palomar.

Oh…. you go way back like I do…….. briefly it was Rancho California. Temecula was a little wild west town.

280 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:29:50pm

Methink Whitman comes off like an outsider bullshit artist.

281 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:30:22pm

re: #280 Gus 802

Methink Whitman comes off like an outsider bullshit artist.

I don’t hear the sea breeze in her tone.

282 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:20pm

re: #281 prairiefire

I don’t hear the sea breeze in her tone.

It sounds robotic, practiced, and kind of snide.

283 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:21pm

re: #254 darthstar

Whitman: “You can not be beholden to the public sector employees” - what she means is, “You can not be beholden to the public.”

No, she means you cannot be beholden to the public sector unions that are running Cali into the ground.

284 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:41pm

re: #253 Escaped Hillbilly

I really don’t think FOX News is well-liked because of the way they cover the military.

And during Iraq War I, CNN was definitely pro-military.

285 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:49pm

re: #271 freetoken

No doubt some do. Many work locally, too. But many also have to make a long commute.

I preferred Temecula when it was countryside… a beautiful trip on the north side of Mt. Palomar.

Long commutes are a reality here. IMO We can accept the commutes given trains. And hybrid cars.
Yes. Concrete is ugly. Temecula is a mortgage boom/bust town. Sadly overdeveloped.

286 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:55pm

re: #278 prairiefire
Yeah, straight answer. Didn’t take the bait. I don’t thin Pres Obama is a great orator as some seem to. But he doesn’t often put his foot in his mouth. He takes his time to answer and lets it come out straight. Kinda like it despite myself. I just can’t bring myself to foam at the mouth and hate him.

287 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:56pm

re: #280 Gus 802

Her real problem is that she looks as old as Jerry though she is quite a bit younger.

Just the truth…

__ upstairs —

288 Turu The Terrible  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:31:58pm

re: #68 albusteve

BO is a political idiot, regardless of his command of language…fancy verbage will take you far around Chicago tho

I was just listening to an excerpt of him being questioned by some breathless Obot bimbo at a townhall meeting, and I swear there must have been 27 “uhs” in the space of less than 2 minutes in his response. I know because I counted them.

If you want to get really wrecked in a drinking game just drink everytime Uh-bama says “uh” in a non-teleprompted speaking situation.

At least Geedubya’s “Bushisms” were amusing. Uh-bama is just boring.

289 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:01pm

re: #282 Gus 802

It sounds robotic, practiced, and kind of snide.

To my ears (partisan ears, granted) sound bite lady.

290 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:12pm

re: #4 joest73

Why not ask the same question for MSNBC?
“What do you think of MSNBC? Do you think it’s a good institution for America and for democracy?”

Magical balance faerie and the Class of 2004. Match made in Heaven.

291 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:17pm

re: #272 Floral Giraffe

Whitman just did a great job, shifting the focus off her voting record.

Hi You! You know Brown is kindof crazy…His first stint as Gov was funnier than hell…Wouldn’t live in the Mansion..Drove an old car and dated a smoking hot rock star..( I loved Linda) But really his executive experience was laughable…Sorry Jerry..Laughable

292 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:17pm

This goes out to Floral, SFZ, Stanley, et al. Props from a true Cali Girl:

293 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:44pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

No, she means you cannot be beholden to the public sector unions that are running Cali into the ground.

Please, for the love of god, how many times do I have to explain what the problems with California really are?

294 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:32:47pm

Are Meg Whitman’s Campaign Donors Funding Her Loutish Son’s Salary?

EBay billionaire Meg Whitman takes care of her son. Griff Harsh’s internet privacy has been zealously protected, and he had a defacto bodyguard at Princeton. Now Whitman’s gubernatorial campaign has rewarded the company that gave delinquent Harsh an unlikely job.

Whitman doesn’t like to draw attention to son Griff. After all, he was suspended from Princeton and has a reputation for entitled belligerence when drinking. Yet she’s publicly funneling money to Solamere Capital LLC where, last time we checked, Harsh worked as an “analyst.” According to newly released campaign expenditure filings, Whitman For Governor 2010 spent $96,000 with Solamere in four months:…

295 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:33:08pm

re: #290 celticdragon

Magical balance faerie and the Class of 2004. Match made in Heaven.

Fucking 2004…

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:33:35pm

re: #286 Escaped Hillbilly

Yeah, straight answer. Didn’t take the bait. I don’t thin Pres Obama is a great orator as some seem to. But he doesn’t often put his foot in his mouth. He takes his time to answer and lets it come out straight. Kinda like it despite myself. I just can’t bring myself to foam at the mouth and hate him.

I kind of like it myself, but it’s not a good soundbite characteristic. He tends to give you…the…whole…answer…

297 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:34:01pm

Good evening lizards!

298 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:34:20pm

Meg Whitman. Beholden:

Since winning the Republican primary, Meg Whitman has banked $105,700 more in donations from her old contacts at Goldman Sachs, the powerful and controversial investment bank.

Whitman, the billionaire former CEO of the online auction house eBay, has spent more of her own money on her gubernatorial campaign than any political candidate in U.S. history – $119 million, state records show. That includes $48 million more in checks since the primary.

But she’s also collecting political donations.

Goldman, where Whitman has variously been an investor, a corporate director and a recipient of insider stock deals, has emerged as the GOP candidate’s biggest single outside source of campaign cash, records show.

Through last week, donors with Goldman connections have given Whitman $216,200. Donors associated with the Food 4 Less supermarket chain rank second, at $207,200, according to a California Watch review of state records.

Whitman has strong ties to Goldman. Much of her $1.2 billion fortune is invested in Goldman funds, according to her economic disclosure report. A Goldman subsidiary manages the money in her family foundation.

In 2001 and 2002, she served on Goldman’s board, where she was paid an estimated $475,000. She left the board after she was singled out in a congressional investigation of “spinning,” a now-banned practice in which investment banks allegedly traded access to insider stock deals in exchange for corporate underwriting business.

299 sagehen  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:35:27pm

re: #171 Vambo

also from Rolling Stone…

Matt Taibbi on the Tea Party:
[Link: www.rollingstone.com…]

I love Matt Taibbi

The individuals in the Tea Party may come from very different walks of life, but most of them have a few things in common. After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview. One: Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did protest the spending in the Bush years, and not one of them is the hypocrite who only took to the streets when a black Democratic president launched an emergency stimulus program. (“Not me — I was protesting!” is a common exclamation.) Two: Each and every one of them is the only person in America who has ever read the Constitution or watched Schoolhouse Rock. (Here they have guidance from Armey, who explains that the problem with “people who do not cherish America the way we do” is that “they did not read the Federalist Papers.”) Three: They are all furious at the implication that race is a factor in their political views — despite the fact that they blame the financial crisis on poor black homeowners, spend months on end engrossed by reports about how the New Black Panthers want to kill “cracker babies,” support politicians who think the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was an overreach of government power, tried to enact South African-style immigration laws in Arizona and obsess over Charlie Rangel, ACORN and Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Four: In fact, some of their best friends are black! (Reporters in Kentucky invented a game called “White Male Liberty Patriot Bingo,” checking off a box every time a Tea Partier mentions a black friend.) And five: Everyone who disagrees with them is a radical leftist who hates America.

He really can paint a picture, huh?

300 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:36:30pm

re: #1 PT Barnum

cue ODS and wingnut outrage in 3…2…1

On what grounds? That’s a good answer Obama gave. I don’t agree with his take on the economic consequences of the RW, Fox recipe for recovery and growth, but then he doesn’t agree with me or with Fox, and I don’t agree with Fox either. The president has to make some decisions, and inevitably there will be people who think different.

The attitude Obama takes toward that minority of the press that stands in opposition is commendable.

301 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:36:31pm

re: #284 Obdicut
Oh goodness, a whole 4 months before they started slamming why we went there at all. Oh and terrible, terrible, the highway of death! We must not kill them as they retreat back across the border with their stolen booty. Not to mention constant jabs at the President, his wife, his vice (who was so stupid he couldn’t spell potato, remember?) Please. CNN has been biased from the day they came on scene. They’re just smart enough to soft pedal it.

302 Turu The Terrible  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:37:40pm

re: #109 Linden Arden

Fundies and wingnuts hate the UN… yet the UN put Israel on the map.

Irony - lost on the Newt Gingriches of the world.

That was over 60 years ago. Before the General Assembly became a Star Wars Cantina scene of Islamist radicals like Ahmadinejad and Bashir and Third World Marxist kleptocrats like Mugabe and Hugo Chavez.

303 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:39:36pm

re: #298 Gus 802

Meg Whitman. Beholden:

Since winning the Republican primary, Meg Whitman has banked $105,700 more in donations from her old contacts at Goldman Sachs, the powerful and controversial investment bank.

Whitman, the billionaire former CEO of the online auction house eBay, has spent more of her own money on her gubernatorial campaign than any political candidate in U.S. history – $119 million, state records show. That includes $48 million more in checks since the primary.

But she’s also collecting political donations.

Goldman, where Whitman has variously been an investor, a corporate director and a recipient of insider stock deals, has emerged as the GOP candidate’s biggest single outside source of campaign cash, records show.

Through last week, donors with Goldman connections have given Whitman $216,200. Donors associated with the Food 4 Less supermarket chain rank second, at $207,200, according to a California Watch review of state records.

Whitman has strong ties to Goldman. Much of her $1.2 billion fortune is invested in Goldman funds, according to her economic disclosure report. A Goldman subsidiary manages the money in her family foundation.

In 2001 and 2002, she served on Goldman’s board, where she was paid an estimated $475,000. She left the board after she was singled out in a congressional investigation of “spinning,” a now-banned practice in which investment banks allegedly traded access to insider stock deals in exchange for corporate underwriting business.

Good. I’d much rather have someone who a large corporation has positive control over. Such a person can be relied on to fight to actually fix some of CA’s problems.

304 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:39:47pm

re: #244 freetoken

Whitman: “Texas.. Texas … Texas…”

She ignores that a house which costs $150k in San Antonio costs $500k here in San Diego.

Property costs here will always mean not everyone will be able to live here. Including companies.

But why would it be that houses cost so much more in CA? There’s plenty of unbuilt land in CA, and lumber can be shipped back and forth pretty cheaply.

The high cost of housing in CA cannot be explained by reference to physical constraints. Bad policy remains as an explanation.

305 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:42:15pm

re: #302 Turu The Terrible

That was over 60 years ago. Before the General Assembly became a Star Wars Cantina scene of Islamist radicals like Ahmadinejad and Bashir and Third World Marxist kleptocrats like Mugabe and Hugo Chavez.

Quite Concur. The UN is now almost entirely anti-Israel. The only thing that keeps it from turning completely is the US.

306 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:44:21pm

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking 2004…

That’s your class.

307 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:46:11pm

re: #284 Obdicut

I really don’t think FOX News is well-liked because of the way they cover the military.

How do you think they cover the military? As far as I’ve seen they’ve done a great job on that.

And during Iraq War I, CNN was definitely pro-military.

During the second Iraq war, not so much.

308 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:46:12pm

re: #306 reine.de.tout

That’s your class.

Just seeing who is paying attention.

309 Lidane  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:46:14pm

re: #71 webevintage

My favorite rant about Reason from John Cole:

A lot of my favorite rants in the last few years have been from John Cole. That guy is hilarious, especially since he throws bricks at everyone on all sides.

310 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:54:15pm

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan

How do you think they cover the military? As far as I’ve seen they’ve done a great job on that..

I have no idea, given that I don’t watch Fox News.

But how much of a percentage of their programming is related to the military?

311 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:54:41pm

re: #199 Rightwingconspirator

Jerry Brown is leading in the polls, yet (despite his party of origin) running on a fiscal conservative platform. I just do not find that credible. Whether he accepts the salary, or eschews the mansion or not. Of course it’s kinda hard to spend 119 million on a job that will pay one million and claim fiscal wisdom…

Jerry Brown is as much a man of his word as you’ll find in politics. He has an abstract bent, so he may buy into theories and act on them in ways that diverge from reality. He got the name “gov moonbeam” for a reason. But liar? No.

If you think fiscal conservatism is an idea which fits OK with reality, you shouldn’t withhold your vote from Brown because you don’t trust him to try it.

Brown doesn’t give a shit about his personal wealth. He just doesn’t. He really believes in public service. He thinks he’s the best man for the job, and if money will help him achieve his purpose of winning so he can lead so he can get done the things he thinks CA needs done, then so what if that money comes out of his own pocket? He doesn’t need it for fast cars, old wine, and young harem.

312 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:58:10pm

re: #304 lostlakehiker

But why would it be that houses cost so much more in CA?

Because more people want to live by the coast than can be accommodated.

It’s a great place to live. Simply, it’s supply and demand.

Prices increased substantially over several decades as California’s population bloomed.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:59:58pm

re: #312 freetoken

Because more people want to live by the coast than can be accommodated.

It’s a great place to live. Simply, it’s supply and demand.

Prices increased substantially over several decades as California’s population bloomed.

It’s cheap to live inland. It’s also sparsely populated, and jobs are scarce.

314 freetoken  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:02:23pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s cheap to live inland. It’s also sparsely populated, and jobs are scarce.

It’s the old conundrum - jobs are where people are at, people go to where jobs are…

The old agricultural communities are less expensive, but everyone wants to live in the coastal cities.

315 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:02:30pm

re: #310 Obdicut

I have no idea, given that I don’t watch Fox News.

But how much of a percentage of their programming is related to the military?

They cover our troops all the time. One thing you will never see is them do is embed with our enemies and then show the propaganda videos of our terrorist enemies killing our troops.

316 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:05:25pm

re: #315 NJDhockeyfan

They cover our troops all the time. One thing you will never see is them do is embed with our enemies and then show the propaganda videos of our terrorist enemies killing our troops.

“All the time”? So 100% of their news coverage is on the military?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Doesn’t look like they currently have any front-news stories on the military, no.

I really, really, really doubt that Fox’s popularity is due to their coverage of the military. It’s a pretty wild claim.

317 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:10:51pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s cheap to live inland. It’s also sparsely populated, and jobs are scarce.

And it’s HOT

Although this week proved that LA downtown was hot too. But the eastern CA areas? It’s the desert made up to be a livable space.

318 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:10:56pm

re: #316 Obdicut

They cover our troops all the time.

“All the time”? So 100% of their news coverage is on the military?

Huh? Did I say 100%?


I really, really, really doubt that Fox’s popularity is due to their coverage of the military. It’s a pretty wild claim.

They are popular because they give both sides on issues, unlike most of the other news stations.

319 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:11:41pm

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

Huh? Did I say 100%?

You said ‘all the time’.


They are popular because they give both sides on issues, unlike most of the other news stations.

You do know there aren’t two sides to issues, right?

320 simoom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:13:38pm

re: #264 Escaped Hillbilly

Reasonable question. Not about balance but…WHY ASK the question in the first place? What purpose did it serve? Since when do we ask the President what he thinks of this or that news provider or entertainment company? Really? They were hoping he’d say something inflammatory. He answered safely.

Fox, and the other assorted Murdoch media properties, are extremely influential politically in this country. They shape public opinion, mainstream fringe stories into the national discourse and organize/promote/indoctrinate/headline/cheerlead an upstart political movement. Instead of just covering the GOP favorably they have a hand in shaping their agenda and rhetoric, while at the same time they’re grooming future high-office talent on their payroll. Consequently it makes sense for journalists to draw attention to and probe News Corp’s significance in U.S. politics.

321 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:14:26pm

re: #319 Obdicut

You said ‘all the time’.

You do know there aren’t two sides to issues, right?

Yes there are. If there is only one side then why do we vote for various bills or have more than one party?

322 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:15:26pm

re: #321 NJDhockeyfan

Yes there are. If there is only one side then why do we vote for various bills or have more than one party?

There isn’t just one side. There’s a lot of different ‘sides’. The idea that there are just two sides is silly.

323 nines09  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:18:24pm

Shit and shinola. Same as it ever was. Wish more people could tell the difference. That’s the crux.

324 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:21:30pm

re: #316 Obdicut

“All the time”? So 100% of their news coverage is on the military?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Doesn’t look like they currently have any front-news stories on the military, no.

I really, really, really doubt that Fox’s popularity is due to their coverage of the military. It’s a pretty wild claim.

I never said their popularity is DUE TO the military. I said, they are popular WITH the military. That is not a wild claim as I have personal knowledge AND the Stars and Stripes has done repeated articles and editorials on the subject. And “all the time” does not mean 100% of the time any more than, I watch that show all the time. means I watch nothing else.

325 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:25:30pm

re: #324 Escaped Hillbilly

I never said their popularity is DUE TO the military. I said, they are popular WITH the military. That is not a wild claim as I have personal knowledge AND the Stars and Stripes has done repeated articles and editorials on the subject. And “all the time” does not mean 100% of the time any more than, I watch that show all the time. means I watch nothing else.

Oh, okay. So what mechanism forced the other networks to alter their coverage on the military?

Do you really believe that before FOX, the media was biased against Republicans? In general?

326 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:26:11pm

re: #320 simoom

ALL news organizations are influential. It would be hard to argue CNN was not at least as influential. This was nothing but an attempt to get a juicy quote to rile people up and stir up interest in their rag. He answered rationally and didn’t give them what they wanted. Snooze.

327 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:26:38pm

re: #325 Obdicut
Yes. Period.

328 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:27:35pm

re: #327 Escaped Hillbilly

Yes. Period.

Well, I have no idea why you think that. It isn’t reality.

Check out this book:

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Can you give an example of media bias against Republicans, please?

329 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:30:47pm

re: #319 Obdicut

You said ‘all the time’.


You do know there aren’t two sides to issues, right?

Actually, more than two sides. People are always trying to convince us we have to choose this or that. Why can’t we find some third alternative? Example: Do you support abortion rights or are you pro life?
Um, I choose pro life but willing to allow others to sometimes get the abortions they need.

330 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:31:56pm

re: #329 Escaped Hillbilly

See #322.

331 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:34:06pm

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan


They are popular because they give both sides on issues, unlike most of the other news stations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

332 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:40:19pm

re: #288 Turu The Terrible

I was just listening to an excerpt of him being questioned by some breathless Obot bimbo at a townhall meeting, and I swear there must have been 27 “uhs” in the space of less than 2 minutes in his response. I know because I counted them.

If you want to get really wrecked in a drinking game just drink everytime Uh-bama says “uh” in a non-teleprompted speaking situation.

At least Geedubya’s “Bushisms” were amusing. Uh-bama is just boring.

You were so busy counting ‘uh’s that you missed his ability to take a complex idea and string together a coherent and cogent presentation.

Are you so butthurt about people laughing at Bush’s speaking style that you can’t get past ‘the other side’s’ mannerisms?

333 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:40:29pm

re: #328 Obdicut

Well, I have no idea why you think that. It isn’t reality.

Check out this book:

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Can you give an example of media bias against Republicans, please?

Professor’s Study Shows Liberal Bias in News Media

334 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:40:53pm

re: #328 Obdicut

Well, I have no idea why you think that. It isn’t reality.

Check out this book:

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Can you give an example of media bias against Republicans, please?

NO I won’t. Look, for the first 28 years of my life I was bombarded with these messages. Used to drive my dad to scream at the television. Now back then there weren’t .coms of every station. You can’t go back to 1976 say, and check every snippet of news. You couldn’t easily play it back. You couldn’t forward it to your friends. You couldn’t easily fact check it. For most of that time there wasn’t even VCRs or DVD players. Now you want me to read an entire book before discussing on a freaking blog with you. I don’t need someone else’s opinion when I lived through it. Get it? It is my opinion. If you don’t agree, fine. But I’m not going go hunting for some scrap of evidence that you will accept particularly since it is evident you have already made up your mind.

335 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:41:02pm

re: #312 freetoken

Because more people want to live by the coast than can be accommodated.

It’s a great place to live. Simply, it’s supply and demand.

Prices increased substantially over several decades as California’s population bloomed.

CA isn’t the only place that has seen population growth. Nor is it the only state that has beaches. Nor is beachfront housing the only type that has surged in price. Yes, supply and demand is always part of the story for any price, but then one must ask, what has held down the supply in CA?

As to CA being a great place to live, a look at various published lists of “great places to live” gives a different impression. I’d more nearly call CA a great place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there, sort of place.

a list of 100 “great places to live”CA has 10% of the people, and just 4% of the “great places”, three of those ranked 90th-100th out of 100. KS, TX, MN, CO, NJ, OK, MO, —-score better.

Or let’s take education. To be fair to CA, I selected 8th grade math achievement. CA has a substantial Asian minority, which would be more likely to do well in math than in reading.

The NAEP posts state by state comparisons. naep stats state by state, 8th grade math. CA ranks well below average. They do beat Alabama, but redneck ignorant yahoos from TX, OK, and even, God help us, AR, outdo CA on that score. MN, KS, MO, CO—-far outdo CA.

You-all used to be leaders in just about everything. You still have some great Universities and some cutting edge companies. But when it comes to stuff the government does, it’s a crying shame how things stand in CA.

336 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:41:16pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Well that settles it!

337 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:42:10pm

re: #330 Obdicut

See #322.

Missed that. Thanks.

338 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:42:41pm

re: #334 Escaped Hillbilly

Okay. You’re very wrong. Especially with Reagan, the media was basically reverential. Reagan made a very, very, very large number of completely untrue statements that were never challenged by the media.

You can have your opinion. I can also say that your opinion is wrong, and cite books that I feel show very well why your opinion is very wrong.

339 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:46:05pm

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

Huh? Did I say 100%?

They are popular because they give both sides on issues, unlike most of the other news stations.

They give both sides?

In which universe?

340 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:49:35pm

re: #322 Obdicut

There isn’t just one side. There’s a lot of different ‘sides’. The idea that there are just two sides is silly.

I think he means the Left side and the Right side. Some with the conservative mindset tend to think in dichotomies.

Some issues, like science related issues, only have one side. Or at least the sides do not have equal import.

341 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:53:25pm

re: #338 Obdicut

Okay. You’re very wrong. Especially with Reagan, the media was basically reverential. Reagan made a very, very, very large number of completely untrue statements that were never challenged by the media.

You can have your opinion. I can also say that your opinion is wrong, and cite books that I feel show very well why your opinion is very wrong.


You are out of your mind. You don’t want to let it go. Listen, they lambasted him daily. They made fun of his age, his prior occupation, his positions. They claimed he didn’t write his own speeches. They would cut off his speeches midway through. They called him a warmonger. It wasn’t until after he left office they suddenly became so “reverential”. Again, you’ve already made up your mind. I wouldn’t give you an example so you dragged up this old red herring. You prove he was treated “reverentially.” Good luck with that.

342 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:55:26pm

re: #227 goddamnedfrank

Did any of those three betray the identity of a CIA covert operative in a partisan attack against that operative’s spouse? Rove is a greasy, treasonous, slithering pile of shit, despite your unwillingness to recognize that fact.


You wouldn’t be talking about the Plame game would you? The treasonous bastards that would ‘out’ a woman working undercover for the CIA trying to keep WMD out of the hands of the bad guys? I wonder how many operatives in other countries died? You ever wonder how many human beings died because of this treasonous act?

343 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:00:38pm

re: #340 b_sharp

I think he means the Left side and the Right side. Some with the conservative mindset tend to think in dichotomies.

Some issues, like science related issues, only have one side. Or at least the sides do not have equal import.


Conservatives are the only ones who think in dichotomies. No. Instantly I was reminded of a completely different Republican party’s statement about lying to the Nazis. Oh, and many science related issues also have multiple “sides” that have equal import. Not do you believe in evolution or creationism, but do you believe in gradualism or sudden spurts of evolution? Nature vs Nuture.

344 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:02:28pm

re: #339 b_sharp

They give both sides?

In which universe?

Side A: GOP/corporate/Murdoch/Saudi Prince(?!?!) agenda

Side B: straw-man version of liberal arguments that no one actually believes.

LOOK!!! TWO SIDES!!!!

345 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:02:55pm

re: #252 Gus 802

EBay…lol


Hey, Ebay has some great deals. Their fees have gotten out of control, but you can still find some great deals.

346 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:03:36pm

Notice right wingers who fear the fairness doctrine’s reinstatement he didn’t say a word about that. He said that they have the right to do what they do and he’s absolutely right that a supposed objective press is a relatively new concept. He didn’t mention it but in the past the newspapers were political instruments of the political parties. If you look at Jefferson V Adams in the election of 1800, a lot of the nastiness between the two campaigns was done through their surrogates in the newspapers. A big Jefferson critic I believe was a Scottish guy who supported out as a Jefferson supporter but turned against him later.

347 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:07:24pm

I just wish the FCC would impose large fines for lying.

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government;… whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.” —Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789

348 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:08:35pm

Reinstating the Fairness Doctrine would be a disaster, IMO. They should let Fox News do whatever it wants - hell, we should encourage it to get even more out of control. Send them stories of alien abductions, Elvis and Bat Boy. The Weekly World News never claimed to be anything other than a legitimate news source (inside the pages), but most people weren’t fooled.

349 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:08:50pm

re: #343 Escaped Hillbilly

Conservatives are the only ones who think in dichotomies. No. Instantly I was reminded of a completely different Republican party’s statement about lying to the Nazis. Oh, and many science related issues also have multiple “sides” that have equal import. Not do you believe in evolution or creationism, but do you believe in gradualism or sudden spurts of evolution? Nature vs Nuture.

Inside science there are questions, but they aren’t necessarily sides. Punk Ek and gradualism aren’t exclusive. Nature and nurture aren’t exclusive. Evolution and not-evolution are.

350 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:09:47pm

re: #347 CarleeCork

I just wish the FCC would impose large fines for lying.

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government;… whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.” —Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789


Hard call. How do you know? And if you are the political opposition, you may see lies that others don’t. What is the standard of proof? News agencies have to be given a wide berth because otherwise they start to self censor to prevent criminal or civil actions.

351 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:10:55pm

re: #349 b_sharp
Well exactly and on that we can agree. (Whew, was starting to wonder.)

352 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:13:08pm

Oh no. Didn’t realize it was so late. I have to get to bed. Great debates tonight. Every thread. Night all.

353 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:25:33pm

re: #350 Escaped Hillbilly

Hard call. How do you know? And if you are the political opposition, you may see lies that others don’t. What is the standard of proof? News agencies have to be given a wide berth because otherwise they start to self censor to prevent criminal or civil actions.


When a so-called news organization takes a tape and edits it to make it seem like someone said something they didn’t, or takes a statement out of context, that would be a lie. I’ve heard many a FAUX NOISE tape that has been edited to change what our President said. I believe that to be an intentional lie to influence what their viewers believe.

I also believe it is treasonous. We are at war. How many times did we hear you don’t speak out against our President during a time of war?

354 palomino  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:29:34pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Jaysus, will ya pick a meme already? Either the man is a stumbling rube, or he’s a slick product of the killer Chicago thug tradition. BOTH is just too much.

Not when you have ODS on top of ODS. Makes perfect sense then.

355 palomino  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:36:15pm

re: #145 Charles

Pretty amazing speech by Arnold Schwarzenegger today. He blasted the oil industry for standing in the way of climate change legislation, and named names.

That’s the kind of Republican I could vote for.

Sadly his wing of the party is miniscule. And his ilk has no chance at the gop nod—pro-choice, pro-gay rights, secular. Forget about it.

356 palomino  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:40:14pm

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

Better a Demon Sheep than a Rabid Bitch. Boxer is just such a bitch.

And Fiorina isn’t? How else would you describe her comments about Boxer?

Fiorina makes no sense for California. She’s pro-life, anti-immigration, not exactly pro-gay and very solicitous of the tea partiers. She’d win big in Alabama.

357 Lidane  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:43:36pm

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

They are popular because they give both sides on issues

You’re kidding, right?

358 palomino  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 8:44:20pm

re: #288 Turu The Terrible

I was just listening to an excerpt of him being questioned by some breathless Obot bimbo at a townhall meeting, and I swear there must have been 27 “uhs” in the space of less than 2 minutes in his response. I know because I counted them.

If you want to get really wrecked in a drinking game just drink everytime Uh-bama says “uh” in a non-teleprompted speaking situation.

At least Geedubya’s “Bushisms” were amusing. Uh-bama is just boring.

Talk about a dead end meme. Obama has been interviewed hundreds of times over the last 3 years. Why don’t you take a look at more than one little clip? Better yet, why don’t you actually listen to what he’s saying?

To the extent that Bushisms were amusing, it was totally unintentional and far more damning than saying “uh” (which by the way, is how thoughtful people talk as they formulate complex answers to difficult questions).

359 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 10:27:42pm

re: #67 Boondock St. Bender

at least the man can form whole sentences as opposed to dubya’s mangling of the english language

Yes he can, but can he ever answer a question in less than five sentences? This continual parsing and nuance drives a lot of people nuts, even ones who support him.

360 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 10:33:44pm

re: #102 Renaissance_Man

Just like the UN - a totally ineffective paper tiger that somehow also manages to be the greatest, most evil threat to our sovereignty at the same time!

Or GWB—he was considered a barely-sentient chimp, a monkey, a rube, and a puppet, and at the same time a Machiavellian manipulator, a puppet master, and an evil genius. I spent eight years telling those with BDS to pick one or the other and stick with it, now I’m spending four to eight more telling those with ODS to pick one meme and go with it.

361 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 10:40:38pm

re: #156 freetoken

Arnold was, IIRC, the last Republican for which I voted.

He has his own charisma and status and thus doesn’t need to suck up to the monied interests that bankroll so many GOP candidates.

He’s been far from perfect as a Governor, but I doubt anyone else could have done much better.

Also, he has his own immense pile of money, from both his movies and lots of real estate investments from early in his career on. His wife’s not exactly from the wrong side of the tracks, either.

362 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:04:21pm

re: #338 Obdicut

Okay. You’re very wrong. Especially with Reagan, the media was basically reverential. Reagan made a very, very, very large number of completely untrue statements that were never challenged by the media.

You can have your opinion. I can also say that your opinion is wrong, and cite books that I feel show very well why your opinion is very wrong.

Wrong. CNN (Ted Turner in his political days, even before he married Hanoi Jane) and CBS (Rather et al) were actively against him, NBC and ABC fairly close to neutral but willing to go with BS stories in order to keep ratings up. One big thing that wouldn’t happen today is that Reagan and his people generally didn’t obsess about how they were portrayed. They knew that overall, the media would not be on their side, and that what helped bring down Nixon was his obsession with how the media portrayed him.

If there were unchallenged untrue statements, it’s because the people at the networks were too stupid to catch them.

363 BlackFedora  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:50am

Note he said nothing about sending troops to seize Fox News and put it under government control. He isn’t Hugo Chavez. A lot of wing nuts compare him to Chavez but what’s funny is I don’t think Chavez likes him that much.

364 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 2:02:57am

re: #341 Escaped Hillbilly

You could also read the book I linked on the subject.

365 morrisab  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:13:36am

re: #264 Escaped Hillbilly

Exactly. He answered safely and intelligently. I’m having fun imagining what others’ responses to that question would have been. That’s assuming they can identify, and place in context, the Hearst family.

366 morrisab  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:16:30am

re: #359 ClaudeMonet

Yes he can, but can he ever answer a question in less than five sentences? This continual parsing and nuance drives a lot of people nuts, even ones who support him.

It doesn’t drive me nuts… in fact, it’s refreshing to see thoughtful answers where facts are placed in an historical context instead of convenient and easy soundbites. Of course, convenient and easy soundbites is what gets the base riled up so maybe he’s wrong in his approach. But I like nuance. There are very few black-and-white approaches to problems.


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