Radiohead: Lotus Flower
Alternative choreography
Music • Views: 37,336
Here’s an open thread/insanity break, featuring Thom Yorke’s goofy dancing.
Youtube Video
877 comments
2 |
deranged cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:24:52pm |
Learn to dance like Thom Yorke!
[Link: www.thecitrusreport.com...]
| 3 |
Alexzander Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:27:18pm |
I've listened to this album maybe 20 times in the past week.
| 5 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:29:10pm |
Also see:
| 7 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:31:14pm |
Coldplay gives Radiohead much credit for influencing their work.
| 8 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:35:07pm |
re: #5 Charles
Also see:
[Video]
Kinda funny. Biber was clearly trying to expand his range of roles. Smart idea.
| 9 |
Four More Beers Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:44:37pm |
re: #3 Alexzander
I've listened to this album maybe 20 times in the past week.
Same here. Two tracks I can live without, but Lotus Flower is the strongest track. Like Kid A, The King of Limbs will grow on me over time.
| 10 |
Alexzander Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:48:24pm |
re: #9 Kid A
Same here. Two tracks I can live without, but Lotus Flower is the strongest track. Like Kid A, The King of Limbs will grow on me over time.
It has grown on me a bit since the first listen, but I still suspect that it doesn't quite have the exploratory depth that Kid A or Amnesiac possess. I'm undecided on the best track at the moment; Lotus Flower might be it but it also seems the most obvious, so I'll have to see how the whole album continues to unfold for me.
| 11 |
Four More Beers Mon, Feb 28, 2011 5:57:19pm |
re: #10 Alexzander
It has grown on me a bit since the first listen, but I still suspect that it doesn't quite have the exploratory depth that Kid A or Amnesiac possess. I'm undecided on the best track at the moment; Lotus Flower might be it but it also seems the most obvious, so I'll have to see how the whole album continues to unfold for me.
I agree. Kid A took quite a while, now it still, after a decade, blows my mind. I saw Yorke's "solo" act Atoms for Peace last April in Chicago, and his encore was "Everything in its Right Place," and the crowd went insane. EIIRP is still my favorite all-time Radiohead song. Nice points about Kid A & Amnesiac, by the way. Did you know they were recorded at the same time?
| 12 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:00:06pm |
Drudge is pimping Alex Jones' appearance on The View.
| 14 |
Interesting Times Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:02:34pm |
re: #12 Killgore Trout
On a happier note, just found something food-related you might be interested in, given your prior posts on the subject:
| 15 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:03:13pm |
re: #12 Killgore Trout
Drudge is pimping Alex Jones' appearance on The View.
Oog. The idea of Alex Jones being mainstreamed like that makes me ill.
| 16 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:03:23pm |
| 17 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:04:43pm |
re: #16 Killgore Trout
Alex Jones Culture Jams The View
[Video]
that is you tube, how do I get there from drudge?
| 18 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:05:32pm |
| 19 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:06:28pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
Oog. The idea of Alex Jones being mainstreamed like that makes me ill.
hahahahaha!
| 20 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:06:31pm |
re: #14 publicityStunted
On a happier note, just found something food-related you might be interested in, given your prior posts on the subject:
Yeah!. Much thanks for posting that. The MOROCCAN ROASTED CARROT and CHICKPEA QUINOA looks awesome. Maybe I'll try that later this weeks.
| 21 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:08:32pm |
| 22 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:09:18pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
Oog. The idea of Alex Jones being mainstreamed like that makes me ill.
Meeeh, Alex Jones, Oprah, Madow, Leno, Hannity ... who fucking cares. No TV no problems. I why bitch about what is on TV & still go there?
| 23 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:11:02pm |
re: #21 Dark_Falcon
What's funny?
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
| 24 |
Interesting Times Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:11:59pm |
re: #20 Killgore Trout
I must confess that, after seeing the back-and-forth between you and Jadespring about quinoa, I went out and bought some and may already be addicted :) It's so much better than rice (which is how I've been using it so far, as a rice substitute). I even notice a mood uptick after eating it, and, unlike other cooked grains, it doesn't get gooey or clumpy when refrigerated. If anything, the grains separate more easily than they do right after it's cooked.
| 25 |
deranged cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:12:30pm |
re: #9 Kid A
Same here. Two tracks I can live without, but Lotus Flower is the strongest track. Like Kid A, The King of Limbs will grow on me over time.
at first i thought it sucked (im a big radiohead fan, but im not in LOVE with every single one of their albums) but after watching Lotus Flower, then relistening.. i think it has definitely grown on me.
| 26 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:16:14pm |
re: #23 brookly red
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
Sorry, I love it too much.
| 27 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:18:25pm |
re: #12 Killgore Trout
Drudge is pimping Alex Jones' appearance on The View.
He's going on the VIEW?! That should be interesting, will he be allowed to bring his bullhorn?
| 28 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:18:40pm |
| 29 |
Four More Beers Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:18:51pm |
re: #25 deranged cat
at first i thought it sucked (im a big radiohead fan, but im not in LOVE with every single one of their albums) but after watching Lotus Flower, then relistening.. i think it has definitely grown on me.
Neither am I. I don't go "ZOMG! It's Radiohead! FEELZ DA BRILLIANCE!!!" about every one of their songs, but they are my favorite band. Can not wait for the tour. Also, the rumor is TKOL is part one.
| 30 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:19:16pm |
re: #23 brookly red
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
Freedom isn't getting rid of the TV, freedom is just using it right, to play games and watch actual good movies and television
| 31 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:19:42pm |
re: #27 WindUpBird
He already did it... watch video KT linked.
It's hilarious - Jones tries to pimp his spiel but the women won't have any of it.
| 32 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:20:21pm |
re: #24 publicityStunted
I even notice a mood uptick after eating it,
OK, I thought it was just me. I think it has to do with the way the body absorbs the nutrients so easily. I get a buzz from it too, similar to the feeling after eating sushi. I'm pretty hooked too. It is kinda pricey in the grocery store (especially if it's whole quinoa with the hull still on). I'm very anxious to try growing it this summer and see if I can grow a year's supply. It'll be tough because I eat it almost every day.
| 33 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:21:12pm |
re: #27 WindUpBird
He's going on the VIEW?! That should be interesting, will he be allowed to bring his bullhorn?
you know that is kinda funny... we where I live often discuss things by saying on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the View & 10 being Prison Planet ...
| 34 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:21:18pm |
re: #16 Killgore Trout
Geeze. Jones gets handed a good opportunity to boost his show and he blows it for a chance to spew Bad Craziness.
| 35 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:21:40pm |
re: #23 brookly red
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
Illusion.
| 36 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:23:07pm |
re: #35 Varek Raith
Illusion.
why is that I have not had a TV in many years... how is that an illusion? are you that weak?
| 37 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:24:36pm |
Good song. Crazy ass dancing but I like it all and all. Thanks.
| 38 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:24:55pm |
re: #30 WindUpBird
Freedom isn't getting rid of the TV, freedom is just using it right, to play games and watch actual good movies and television
oh yeah, now tell me you are not addicted & can quit anytime :)
| 39 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:26:12pm |
re: #36 brookly red
why is that I have not had a TV in many years... how is that an illusion? are you that weak?
Ha!
More like you're the one who doesn't want to deal with reality, so just throws the tv away. That'll stop the GOP's crazy infatuation with Alex Jones and his craziness!
;)
| 40 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:26:22pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
Oog. The idea of Alex Jones being mainstreamed like that makes me ill.
Well it's possible the more mainstream he gets, the more people will see how big a loon he is. I mean doesn't he have a regular guest who thinks that the British royal family are really reptiles. I mean like any good American, I don't think that much of the royal family either but reptiles haha.
| 41 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:29:02pm |
re: #39 Varek Raith
Ha!
More like you're the one who doesn't want to deal with reality, so just throws the tv away. That'll stop the GOP's crazy infatuation with Alex Jones and his craziness!
;)
Brookly is allowed to not have a T.V. Probably lowers the blood pressure.
I do recall that at one point my family was the subject of observation by some grad student in sociology. He didn't tell us, but one of the points of interest was watching TV-related behavior. And we didn't have one. So he was forced to observe what we did instead of watching the TV.
We made that poor guy's life so difficult.
| 42 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:29:16pm |
re: #27 WindUpBird
He's going on the VIEW?! That should be interesting, will he be allowed to bring his bullhorn?
It's all about his access to Charlie Sheen. Alex found his entre and its as low as his usual path.
| 43 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:30:35pm |
re: #40 HappyWarrior
Well it's possible the more mainstream he gets, the more people will see how big a loon he is. I mean doesn't he have a regular guest who thinks that the British royal family are really reptiles. I mean like any good American, I don't think that much of the royal family either but reptiles haha.
I can understand the confusion over the British royal family, but Alex Jones is a freak.
| 44 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:30:56pm |
re: #39 Varek Raith
Ha!
More like you're the one who doesn't want to deal with reality, so just throws the tv away. That'll stop the GOP's crazy infatuation with Alex Jones and his craziness!
;)
Denial is easier.
| 45 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:32:41pm |
Some of the dance moves remind me of Ian Curtis, of the band Joy Division.
Curtis was epileptic and suffered frequent seizures, sometimes during performances.
| 47 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:33:00pm |
re: #39 Varek Raith
Ha!
More like you're the one who doesn't want to deal with reality, so just throws the tv away. That'll stop the GOP's crazy infatuation with Alex Jones and his craziness!
;)
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
| 48 |
Alexzander Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:34:21pm |
re: #11 Kid A
I agree. Kid A took quite a while, now it still, after a decade, blows my mind. I saw Yorke's "solo" act Atoms for Peace last April in Chicago, and his encore was "Everything in its Right Place," and the crowd went insane. EIIRP is still my favorite all-time Radiohead song. Nice points about Kid A & Amnesiac, by the way. Did you know they were recorded at the same time?
Yeah, I remember the summer those albums came out quite clearly as I had just moved coast to coast. I've seen Radiohead three times live, but Atoms for Peace is certainly a harder act to catch.
| 49 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:34:50pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
But you blog so well with the world...Ironic
hehehe hi james
| 50 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:37:06pm |
re: #49 HoosierHoops
But you blog so well with the world...Ironic
hehehe hi james
Hey Hoops, just finished the 4th Phoenix Wright game. Never before have I been so proud of the Jury System, and I hope works well for Japan as well...
(Now I only need to wait for Ace Investigations to arrive from whoever I bought it from on Amazon...)
| 51 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:37:15pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
Andy: I had Mr. Mozart to keep me company...[points and taps his head.] It was in here. [gestures over his heart] And in here. That's the beauty of music. They can't get that from you. Haven't you ever felt that way about music?
Red: Well... I played a mean harmonica as a younger man. Lost interest in it, though. Didn't make too much sense in here.
Andy: No, here's where it makes the most sense. You need it so you don't forget.
Red: Forget?
Andy: That there are places in the world that aren't made out of stone. That there's... there's somethin' inside that they can't get to; that they can't touch. It's yours.
Red: What are you talkin' about?
Andy: Hope.
Red: Hope? Let me tell you so
| 52 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:38:04pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
Great song. I was like that for a time. In fact, that's part of why I started gaming on a regular basis; because I realized I couldn't live that way. And its helped. It costs some money at times, but its worth it for the social interaction independent of family or work.
| 53 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:38:27pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
I prefer walls to islands :D
| 54 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:38:48pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
Hey Hoops, just finished the 4th Phoenix Wright game. Never before have I been so proud of the Jury System, and I hope works well for Japan as well...
(Now I only need to wait for Ace Investigations to arrive from whoever I bought it from on Amazon...)
OBJECTION!!!
| 55 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:38:53pm |
re: #23 brookly red
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
Not watching is a good idea. The problem is everybody else is watching, which makes the idiot box the most powerful cultural force in America.
| 56 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:39:07pm |
re: #51 BryanS
Andy: I had Mr. Mozart to keep me company...[points and taps his head.] It was in here. [gestures over his heart] And in here. That's the beauty of music. They can't get that from you. Haven't you ever felt that way about music?
Red: Well... I played a mean harmonica as a younger man. Lost interest in it, though. Didn't make too much sense in here.
Andy: No, here's where it makes the most sense. You need it so you don't forget.
Red: Forget?
Andy: That there are places in the world that aren't made out of stone. That there's... there's somethin' inside that they can't get to; that they can't touch. It's yours.
Red: What are you talkin' about?
Andy: Hope.
Red: Hope? Let me tell you so
One good quote deserves another. Well played, Brookly.
| 57 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:39:42pm |
re: #51 BryanS
Andy: I had Mr. Mozart to keep me company...[points and taps his head.] It was in here. [gestures over his heart] And in here. That's the beauty of music. They can't get that from you. Haven't you ever felt that way about music?
Red: Well... I played a mean harmonica as a younger man. Lost interest in it, though. Didn't make too much sense in here.
Andy: No, here's where it makes the most sense. You need it so you don't forget.
Red: Forget?
Andy: That there are places in the world that aren't made out of stone. That there's... there's somethin' inside that they can't get to; that they can't touch. It's yours.
Red: What are you talkin' about?
Andy: Hope.
Red: Hope? Let me tell you so
I'm lame, don't know where it's from, but like it.
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:39:44pm |
re: #45 negativ
Joy Division is the postpunk band that was just too dark at times even for me, you could just hear death in that band, I'm much more Cure/Killing Joke
| 59 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:40:08pm |
| 60 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:41:12pm |
re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist
Brookly is allowed to not have a T.V. Probably lowers the blood pressure.
I do recall that at one point my family was the subject of observation by some grad student in sociology. He didn't tell us, but one of the points of interest was watching TV-related behavior. And we didn't have one. So he was forced to observe what we did instead of watching the TV.
We made that poor guy's life so difficult.
why did he pick you? :D
That'd like be studying you if I wanted to learn more about Slayer fans
| 61 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:41:38pm |
re: #57 Stanley Sea
I'm lame, don't know where it's from, but like it.
Shawshank Redemption.
Cut off the last two lines:
Red: Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use on the inside. You'd better get used to that idea.
Andy: Like Brooks did?
If you haven't seen the movie, you absolutely must.
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:42:21pm |
re: #53 WindUpBird
I prefer walls to islands :D
"I built walls,
A fortress, deep and mighty,
Than none may pen-e-trate.
I have no need for friendship,
Friendship causes pain,
It's laughter and loving I disdain."
| 64 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:42:28pm |
re: #61 BryanS
Shawshank Redemption.
Cut off the last two lines:
Red: Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use on the inside. You'd better get used to that idea.
Andy: Like Brooks did?If you haven't seen the movie, you absolutely must.
One of the good Stephen King movies in the minefield of bad ones
| 65 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:43:00pm |
| 66 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:43:08pm |
re: #63 Dark_Falcon
"I built walls,
A fortress, deep and mighty,
Than none may pen-e-trate.
I have no need for friendship,
Friendship causes pain,
It's laughter and loving I disdain."
not those walls, these walls
| 67 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:43:22pm |
re: #62 Stanley Sea
And I read the book! Nice memory.
By Steven King...most would not know. He wrote some damn good non-horror stories-turned-into-movies. Stand by me, Green Mile.
| 68 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:43:38pm |
re: #67 BryanS
By Steven King...most would not know. He wrote some damn good non-horror stories-turned-into-movies. Stand by me, Green Mile.
CHRISTINE O__O
| 69 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:44:09pm |
re: #67 BryanS
By Steven King...most would not know. He wrote some damn good non-horror stories-turned-into-movies. Stand by me, Green Mile.
Also Misery, also The Shining, even though he dislikes Kubrick's version
(also, i know Maximum Overdrive sucks but I love it)
| 70 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:44:21pm |
re: #64 WindUpBird
One of the good Stephen King movies in the minefield of bad ones
Probably because its one is his non supernatural stories... I mean I hear that Misery was pretty good also..
But for example his supernatural stories well... bring out your shot glasses...
| 71 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:44:41pm |
re: #64 WindUpBird
One of the good Stephen King movies in the minefield of bad ones
Frank Darabont is probably the best at adapting King. Green Mile, Shawshank both were fantastic and though I've never read the Mist, I really liked his take on that. Watched some of that Saturday night.
| 72 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:44:41pm |
| 73 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:44:58pm |
re: #71 HappyWarrior
Frank Darabont is probably the best at adapting King. Green Mile, Shawshank both were fantastic and though I've never read the Mist, I really liked his take on that. Watched some of that Saturday night.
darabont is a golden god
| 74 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:45:29pm |
re: #61 BryanS
Shawshank Redemption.
Cut off the last two lines:
Red: Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use on the inside. You'd better get used to that idea.
Andy: Like Brooks did?If you haven't seen the movie, you absolutely must.
Oh I'm just getting memory impaired. Andy & Red? How I missed the connect.
Just re-watched the green mile. Anyone here (like me) purchase the pocket books as they came out? The best experience in reading.
| 75 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:45:31pm |
re: #70 jamesfirecat
Probably because its one is his non supernatural stories... I mean I hear that Misery was pretty good also..
But for example his supernatural stories well... bring out your shot glasses...
Yeah, Misery was good. Jimmy Caan as the writer and Kathy Bates as the psycho fan. I also enjoyed the Family Guy adaption :D.
| 76 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:45:59pm |
re: #69 WindUpBird
Also Misery, also The Shining, even though he dislikes Kubrick's version
(also, i know Maximum Overdrive sucks but I love it)
Misery is a good one...probably my most favorite movies of all time are Shawshank Redemption and Stand By Me. Both non-horror King stories.
| 77 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:46:07pm |
I love media...a 1000 channels on the big screen HD TV..
High speed Internet.. A smart phone..Books and mags...Blogging...I find my life richer with more rather than less
| 78 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:46:13pm |
anyone besides me see Sleepwalkers?
BE GLAD
| 79 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:46:32pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
And an island never cries.
| 80 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:46:42pm |
re: #76 BryanS
Misery is a good one...probably my most favorite movies of all time are Shawshank Redemption and Stand By Me. Both non-horror King stories.
I love Stand By me, it's not really the type of film that would be my favorite, but it's expertly done
| 81 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:47:22pm |
re: #77 HoosierHoops
I love media...a 1000 channels on the big screen HD TV..
High speed Internet.. A smart phone..Books and mags...Blogging...I find my life richer with more rather than less
I'm choosy, but if it weren't for the internet and the ways to reach narrow audiences on the internet, a lot of bands and artists I love would probably not exist in their current form
| 83 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:47:36pm |
re: #66 WindUpBird
not those walls, these walls
[Video]
Also great. But since the Simon & Garfunkel song has come up, I'm going to post it:
| 84 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:48:31pm |
re: #71 HappyWarrior
Frank Darabont is probably the best at adapting King. Green Mile, Shawshank both were fantastic and though I've never read the Mist, I really liked his take on that. Watched some of that Saturday night.
Omg READ the mist
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:48:59pm |
re: #64 WindUpBird
One of the good Stephen King movies in the minefield of bad ones
It was helped by its terrific lead actors. Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman turned out exceptional performances.
| 86 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:49:05pm |
re: #77 HoosierHoops
I love media...a 1000 channels on the big screen HD TV..
High speed Internet.. A smart phone..Books and mags...Blogging...I find my life richer with more rather than less
My theory i always repeat is that the internet is the return of the 70's for art and music in many ways, one of them being the way the music industry no longer has the monolithic hold they've had on people, because radio and MTV are now irrelevant, it's like Jim Ladd's revenge
| 87 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:49:08pm |
I'm sitting here doing retro on YouTube. Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, Fleetwood Mac.
| 88 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:49:22pm |
Thanks DF, James for the Simon and Garfunkel earworms. I always liked The Sounds of Silence, Scarborough Fair, and countless others myself. It's funny. My true introduction to Sound of Silence was a scene in Old School. Really feel like watching The Graduate now especially being so close to being one myself now :).
| 89 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:49:42pm |
re: #74 Stanley Sea
Oh I'm just getting memory impaired. Andy & Red? How I missed the connect.
Just re-watched the green mile. Anyone here (like me) purchase the pocket books as they came out? The best experience in reading.
Heh...haven't read any of the books. But from the director comments on the DVD of Shawshank, I remember them talking about how Red was the name of an Irish guy...made a joke of that in the movie with Red being played by Morgan Freeman. With the line "Andy:Why do they call you 'Red'? Red: Maybe it's 'cause I'm Irish".
| 90 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:50:04pm |
Time for the retro decapod invasion from the end of the previous thread...
| 91 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:50:35pm |
re: #87 oaktree
I'm sitting here doing retro on YouTube. Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, Fleetwood Mac.
My retro would be more with BOC, Deep Purple, vintage Bowie, but well done :D
| 93 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:53:53pm |
Storm of the century is another king story excellently made to tv miniseries. Watch it!!!
| 94 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:54:01pm |
I'm not a huge Southern Rock fan but I do like Ramblin Man by the Allman bros.I have to say I'd be totally lost without music. I hear music and try to imagine a movie or book scene with it.
| 95 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:54:27pm |
re: #91 WindUpBird
My retro would be more with BOC, Deep Purple, vintage Bowie, but well done :D
Did some Bowie already. "Heroes" and "Let's Dance". Might be time to do more heavy stuff for a bit -- maybe some Deep Purple. Then again my friends think I'm weird for having three CDs loaded and they're a mix like Metallica, Sarah McLachlin, and Roxy Music.
:)
| 96 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:54:32pm |
Some lesser known Simon & Garfunkel:
| 97 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:56:39pm |
| 98 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:57:23pm |
Badfinger is a really under appreciated 70's. band if you ask me.
| 99 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:58:20pm |
re: #91 WindUpBird
My retro would be more with BOC, Deep Purple, vintage Bowie, but well done :D
As retro as it gets: King Tutahnkamen's trumpets played (with modern mouthpiece) by a British military trumpeter:
| 100 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:58:37pm |
Some 80's retro. This Eddie Money song has a movie named after coming out soon, so here's its video from back in the day:
| 101 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 6:59:43pm |
weird... Google kicked me out & Explorer & Firefox claimed this site did not exist. OK, a glitch I am sure.
| 102 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:00:29pm |
re: #101 brookly red
weird... Google kicked me out & Explorer & Firefox claimed this site did not exist. OK, a glitch I am sure.
We're a figment of your imagination.
:)
| 103 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:00:55pm |
| 104 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:00:56pm |
re: #23 brookly red
the fact that you care... just stand up, pick up the TV & put it out on the curb. And feel the freedom.
Hell yes. You can get your addiction satisfied on the strict Internet diet.
| 105 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:05:23pm |
re: #104 b_sharp
Hell yes. You can get your addiction satisfied on the strict Internet diet.
The problem with the Internet diet is you get a lot of filler without a lot of nutrition. It's like a diet of cheese curls and sugary soda.
| 106 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:05:57pm |
re: #105 MrSilverDragon
The problem with the Internet diet is you get a lot of filler without a lot of nutrition. It's like a diet of cheese curls and sugary soda.
Millions of college students want to know what's wrong with that?
| 107 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:06:26pm |
| 108 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:06:34pm |
re: #106 EmmmieG
Millions of college students want to know what's wrong with that?
Ask them when they're forty years old and 400 pounds. :)
| 109 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:08:00pm |
re: #108 MrSilverDragon
Ask them when they're forty years old and 400 pounds. :)
Don't be silly. They'll be young forever. Remember?
| 110 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:08:50pm |
re: #109 EmmmieG
Don't be silly. They'll be young forever. Remember?
I remember, but then I hit 40. Thankfully, not 400 pounds.
| 111 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:10:10pm |
re: #91 WindUpBird
My retro would be more with BOC, Deep Purple, vintage Bowie, but well done :D
For you then,
| 112 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:10:58pm |
re: #110 MrSilverDragon
I remember, but then I hit 40. Thankfully, not 400 pounds.
I wear the same size jeans I did in college...
but now since hope'nchange I need a belt to hold them up
| 113 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:11:26pm |
re: #110 MrSilverDragon
I remember, but then I hit 40. Thankfully, not 400 pounds.
Me too. I so enjoy that lovely feeling when you forgot and sat on the floor for a little too long and your bones and muscles remind you of your exact age.
| 114 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:13:30pm |
But I'm not into retro tonight, gotta figure out how to handle times like these...
| 115 |
bratwurst Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:13:42pm |
re: #112 brookly red
I wear the same size jeans I did in college...
but now since hope'nchange I need a belt to hold them up
Says the guy who posts about what restaurant food he is ordering every night.
| 116 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:14:32pm |
Heh. Three takes on "Voodoo Child"...
Jimi.
Buddy Guy
Stevie Ray Vaughn
I got to see SRV live in the early 80s in a small club in Pittsburgh (The Decade). Unfortunately I did not truly realize what I experienced at the time.
:(
| 117 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:15:52pm |
[Link: www.google.com...]
Why does Obama hate America?
Just joking around because this really is a nice gesture for Mr. buckles.
| 118 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:17:19pm |
re: #116 oaktree
I got to see SRV live in the early 80s in a small club in Pittsburgh (The Decade). Unfortunately I did not truly realize what I experienced at the time.:(
I'm still kicking myself from back in the day when a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to go see Frank Zappa in Central Park, and I said, "Nah, I'll wait until he comes around here and see him."
Frank passed on not long after that. That is by far my biggest regret (when it comes to concerts).
| 119 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:18:12pm |
re: #115 bratwurst
Says the guy who posts about what restaurant food he is ordering every night.
you know you are getting close to being a stalker...
I like restaurant food, I wish I could have more of it. alas.
do you actually lie around & wait for me to post something you can jump on? I have had a few like that over they years...
| 120 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:19:07pm |
re: #116 oaktree
Heh. Three takes on "Voodoo Child"...
Jimi.
[Video]I got to see SRV live in the early 80s in a small club in Pittsburgh (The Decade). Unfortunately I did not truly realize what I experienced at the time.
:(
SRV died on my 35th birthday. At first I heard it was Eric. That bothered me. Then I found out it was Stevie. That was worse.
The only gods I worship are guitar gods.
| 121 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:19:50pm |
re: #116 oaktree
Heh. Three takes on "Voodoo Child"...
Jimi.
[Video]I got to see SRV live in the early 80s in a small club in Pittsburgh (The Decade). Unfortunately I did not truly realize what I experienced at the time.
:(
Crazy thing about Vaughan is that he died literally the day before my brother was born. I always loved his cover of Little Wing. Just a great guitarist.
| 122 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:21:06pm |
re: #116 oaktree
Heh. Three takes on "Voodoo Child"...
Jimi.
[Video]I got to see SRV live in the early 80s in a small club in Pittsburgh (The Decade). Unfortunately I did not truly realize what I experienced at the time.
:(
I saw SRV at the local uni in the early 80's. TIny assed gym for the show and me and my gf were damn near in his lap. She was less than impressed but then I didn't exactly want to get dragged to Dead shows either LOL. Ya put up with a lot for your first love!
| 123 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:21:45pm |
re: #119 brookly red
you know you are getting close to being a stalker...
I like restaurant food, I wish I could have more of it. alas.
do you actually lie around & wait for me to post something you can jump on? I have had a few like that over they years...
His nic is a sausage.
| 124 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:23:24pm |
re: #123 b_sharp
His nic is a sausage.
well I just wish he would actually post something once in a while and not just lurk & snipe.
| 125 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:23:43pm |
re: #118 MrSilverDragon
I'm still kicking myself from back in the day when a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to go see Frank Zappa in Central Park, and I said, "Nah, I'll wait until he comes around here and see him."
Frank passed on not long after that. That is by far my biggest regret (when it comes to concerts).
Since I'm not a crowd person I have a disinclination to attend concerts (and sporting events). However, in a 2-3 year period I managed to see George Thorogood (with Johnny Winter opening), Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Deep Purple (Perfect Strangers Tour). In the 25+ years since then I think I've been to two more concerts; Paul MacCartney (free ticket), and Alison Krauss with Union Station.
| 126 |
bratwurst Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:23:57pm |
re: #119 brookly red
you know you are getting close to being a stalker...
I like restaurant food, I wish I could have more of it. alas.
do you actually lie around & wait for me to post something you can jump on? I have had a few like that over they years...
You post every night bragging about eating out and I am a stalker for noticing. Got it.
| 127 |
bratwurst Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:24:24pm |
re: #124 brookly red
well I just wish he would actually post something once in a while and not just lurk & snipe.
Make you a deal...I'll post more if you agree to post less.
| 128 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:29:04pm |
re: #126 bratwurst
You post every night bragging about eating out and I am a stalker for noticing. Got it.
so say something intelligent & and contribute to the conversation... there is more to do here than just hate me. besides that never works out well anyway.
so why is it any way, that you just lurk around & downding me from a safe distance all the time ? I mean if you want to tell me I am an asshole, please feel free people do it here all the time... but you I an concerned about.
| 129 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:30:00pm |
What I am currently listening to.
Found this on...a video game. I confess.
[Link: www.scarletfuries.com...]
| 130 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:30:50pm |
re: #127 bratwurst
Make you a deal...I'll post more if you agree to post less.
Where is this animosity coming from?
| 131 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:32:47pm |
| 132 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:33:13pm |
re: #123 b_sharp
His nic is a sausage.
And one with a number of variations to be found in Chicago. But if you want to find a German-style Deutch Bratwurst plate, the best two place to go in Chicago are the Chicago Brauhaus in Lincoln Square, and Edelweiss on Irving Park Road a few blocks west of Harlem.
| 133 |
bratwurst Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:33:22pm |
re: #128 brookly red
so say something intelligent & and contribute to the conversation... there is more to do here than just hate me. besides that never works out well anyway.
so why is it any way, that you just lurk around & downding me from a safe distance all the time ? I mean if you want to tell me I am an asshole, please feel free people do it here all the time... but you I an concerned about.
I can start posting about my eating habits if that will make you better about my post count.
Of course, I DID once ask you about who you were voting for in the NY gubernatorial election. You declined to answer, even after I revealed my home state and who I had voted for.
I don't regard you as being an asshole as much as just plain old dishonest. There is a fine example right in this thread. You are not, in fact, going hungry due to the Obama administration.
| 134 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:33:26pm |
| 135 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:33:36pm |
Mellow out a bit mon and listen to Keith play rasta...
| 138 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:37:04pm |
re: #133 bratwurst
I can start posting about my eating habits if that will make you better about my post count.
Of course, I DID once ask you about who you were voting for in the NY gubernatorial election. You declined to answer, even after I revealed my home state and who I had voted for.
I don't regard you as being an asshole as much as just plain old dishonest. There is a fine example right in this thread. You are not, in fact, going hungry due to the Obama administration.
A. I voted for Palidino. B. I am pleased that the other guy is doing much better that I expected. C. You remind me of Reginald.
| 139 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:37:10pm |
re: #116 oaktree
Heh. Three takes on "Voodoo Child"...
You meant to say, "the real thing, then two pale imitations of it."
| 140 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:38:55pm |
re: #139 negativ
You meant to say, "the real thing, then two pale imitations of it."
Nope. Stevie is the only one that come close to Jimi.
| 141 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:40:18pm |
OK, I'm done now, my short visit is over and I'm off to perform late night network maintenance for mah jawb. Thankfully this means no working tomorrow, hooray! Happy thoughts, y'all!
| 142 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:40:38pm |
re: #138 brookly red
A. I voted for Palidino. B. I am pleased that the other guy is doing much better that I expected. C. You remind me of Reginald.
I figured that as a registered Democrat :) it was Cuomo !
#133 bratwurst
...I don't regard you as being an asshole as much as just plain old dishonest. There is a fine example right in this thread. You are not, in fact, going hungry due to the Obama administration.
Well, perhaps it was another thread, but there was no claim of going hungry due to Obama on this thread. The ass-hat is not on Brookly it seems.
| 144 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:41:17pm |
re: #120 b_sharp
SRV died on my 35th birthday. At first I heard it was Eric. That bothered me. Then I found out it was Stevie. That was worse.
The only gods I worship are guitar gods.
Always remember that if you're in a helicopter in the mountains or hills with poor visibility always climb to above minimum obstacle height before proceeding in a horizontal direction.
| 145 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:41:35pm |
'9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous' - Al Qaeda
| 146 |
bratwurst Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:41:41pm |
re: #142 BryanS
I figured that as a registered Democrat :) it was Cuomo !
Well, perhaps it was another thread, but there was no claim of going hungry due to Obama on this thread. The ass-hat is not on Brookly it seems.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 147 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:42:12pm |
Back to music..The beauty of Little wing is that it is pretty easy to play..When I was a kid in a garage band we would play it and people would thing you were a Guitar god..
You can't buy that much of an ego boost playing a simple E vamp...
I love Little Wing..Beauty and simplicity
| 148 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:42:23pm |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
'9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous' - Al Qaeda
[Video]
Oldie but a goodie :). Thanks. I love Omar Al-Farooq.
| 150 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:44:24pm |
re: #139 negativ
You meant to say, "the real thing, then two pale imitations of it."
I'm fond of the energy and verve Vaughn put into his Hendrix covers. It's obvious that he greatly enjoyed playing Hendrix tunes.
| 151 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:44:30pm |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
'9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous' - Al Qaeda
[Video]
For the first time I agree with Al Qaeda!
//
| 152 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:45:08pm |
re: #142 BryanS
I figured that as a registered Democrat :) it was Cuomo !
Well, perhaps it was another thread, but there was no claim of going hungry due to Obama on this thread. The ass-hat is not on Brookly it seems.
well to be fair I did alluded to the fact that my financial circumstances have suffered under the current administration... (as have many others).
| 153 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:45:44pm |
re: #142 BryanS
I figured that as a registered Democrat :) it was Cuomo !
Well, perhaps it was another thread, but there was no claim of going hungry due to Obama on this thread. The ass-hat is not on Brookly it seems.
Well, part of the reason he's a registered Democrat is that in Brooklyn, you have to be registered that way to take part in the Democratic primaries, which are the critical local votes (except for mayor, the general election is normally a formality).
| 154 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:45:53pm |
ooo... Found a song I've been looking to find for a while.
Keith Richards solo (well, non Stones) work.
And is it me, or does Keith Richards with his hair like that sorta look like a mumified Harpo Marx?
| 155 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:46:46pm |
re: #142 BryanS
I figured that as a registered Democrat :) it was Cuomo !
Well, perhaps it was another thread, but there was no claim of going hungry due to Obama on this thread. The ass-hat is not on Brookly it seems.
Dude... how is this
"I wear the same size jeans I did in college...
but now since hope'nchange I need a belt to hold them up"
Not a claim that he is going hungry due to Obama?
| 156 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:47:18pm |
re: #146 bratwurst
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Ahh...didn't pay attention to or notice that one. Pretty harmless talking-point style rhetoric. I'm not a fan of Obama's politics either.
| 157 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:48:10pm |
re: #156 BryanS
Ahh...didn't pay attention to or notice that one. Pretty harmless talking-point style rhetoric. I'm not a fan of Obama's politics either.
Racist?
| 158 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:49:11pm |
re: #156 BryanS
Ahh...didn't pay attention to or notice that one. Pretty harmless talking-point style rhetoric. I'm not a fan of Obama's politics either.
ah, let it be. some people are never happy... but thank you for your support.
| 159 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:49:27pm |
Tonight when I clicked on LGF, before signing in, I saw an ad on the front page featuring Rand Paul for a petition pushing the "National Right To Work Act."
Here's the letter, and the petition, which both contain several misleading statements (putting it kindly).
Dear Concerned American,
You have an historic opportunity to break the cycle of tax-and-spend, political corruption and out of control budgets caused by Big Labor’s compulsory union power.
But you must strike now to make Congressmen and Senators choose between standing with the 80% of Americans who oppose forced unionism and Big Labor's multi-billion dollar political machine.
It will be an epic, historic battle and your support is critical.
Please sign the petition below right away.
Sincerely,
Rand Paul
U.S. Senator, (R-KY)
National Right to Work Act Petition to:
My U.S. Senators and CongressmanWhereas: Federal law permits Big Labor to confiscate $8 billion from American workers’ paychecks every year just to get or keep a job;
Whereas: This forced unionism breeds violent strikes and a hate-the-boss mentality which drive good jobs overseas, jack up prices and risk re-igniting inflation:
Whereas: Union bosses use this forced-dues fortune to corrupt our political system with over a billion dollars every election cycle;
Whereas: Union-puppet politicians routinely vote for higher taxes, bailouts, job-killing bureaucracy and even more porkbarrel spending keeping our nation locked in recession;
Therefore: I urge you in the strongest possible terms to strike a blow for freedom and American prosperity by co-sponsoring and casting your every vote in favor the National Right to Work Act.
| 160 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:49:29pm |
re: #153 Dark_Falcon
Well, part of the reason he's a registered Democrat is that in Brooklyn, you have to be registered that way to take part in the Democratic primaries, which are the critical local votes (except for mayor, the general election is normally a formality).
I know...it's just fun chiding :) I vote in Democrat primaries in Dane county, WI where my choices are the Democrats and sometimes the further left Progressive Danes.
| 161 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:49:37pm |
re: #147 HoosierHoops
Back to music..The beauty of Little wing is that it is pretty easy to play..When I was a kid in a garage band we would play it and people would thing you were a Guitar god..
You can't buy that much of an ego boost playing a simple E vamp...
I love Little Wing..Beauty and simplicity
There is a difference between playing it and playing it sublimely.
| 162 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:49:40pm |
| 163 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:50:19pm |
| 164 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:51:22pm |
re: #151 Gus 802
For the first time I agree with Al Qaeda!
//
Image: and-then-the-tsa-touch-their-balls-31918-1291665555-50.jpg
| 165 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:51:41pm |
re: #159 jaunte
Tonight when I clicked on LGF, before signing in, I saw an ad on the front page featuring Rand Paul for a petition pushing the "National Right To Work Act."
Here's the letter, and the petition, which both contain several misleading statements (putting it kindly).
As I said, people like Rand Paul bust on unions with never a bad word for the conditions that make them necessary in the first place.
| 166 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:52:17pm |
Jane Russell died.
She was lovely, but I am always stunned when the first thought that goes through my mind was, "(That particular celebrity) was still alive?"
| 167 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:52:22pm |
As if we needed another reason to hate Al Queda.
| 168 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:52:26pm |
re: #163 Walter L. Newton
I thought so.
what gave me away? it's not like I asked for a birth certificate or anything... I just questioned policy?
| 169 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:53:07pm |
re: #165 HappyWarrior
As I said, people like Rand Paul bust on unions with never a bad word for the conditions that make them necessary in the first place.
Rand Paul wants a return to those conditions so that the workers' revolution can then proceed as planned instead of being derailed by tricky compromises made by the capitalist oligarchy.
/
| 170 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:53:19pm |
re: #165 HappyWarrior
This New York Times/CBS News poll contradicts his '80%' number, wherever that came from.
Majority in Poll Back Employees In Public Unions
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:53:44pm |
| 172 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:54:05pm |
It's a sad day when Fox Nation does the work the rest of the MSM won't do....
All Hell Breaks Loose on The View After 9/11 Truther Cuts Loose
Now how about dealing the the 9-11 truthers employed by Fox?
| 173 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:54:28pm |
re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Jane Russell died.
She was lovely, but I am always stunned when the first thought that goes through my mind was, "(That particular celebrity) was still alive?"
My first though always is "I watched her when I was young, how fucking old does that make me?"
| 174 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:54:58pm |
| 175 |
What, me worry? Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:55:03pm |
re: #159 jaunte
Tonight when I clicked on LGF, before signing in, I saw an ad on the front page featuring Rand Paul for a petition pushing the "National Right To Work Act."
Here's the letter, and the petition, which both contain several misleading statements (putting it kindly).
So... does the Right to Work Act abolish all Unions?
And trust me, you don't need to be in a union to hate your boss.
| 176 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:55:23pm |
re: #169 oaktree
Rand Paul wants a return to those conditions so that the workers' revolution can then proceed as planned instead of being derailed by tricky compromises made by the capitalist oligarchy.
/
Yeah, him and his old man want to return us to pre Progressive era conditions.
| 177 |
What, me worry? Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:55:54pm |
re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Jane Russell died.
She was lovely, but I am always stunned when the first thought that goes through my mind was, "(That particular celebrity) was still alive?"
hehe me too.
She'll always be the Cross-Your-Heart Bra lady to me.
| 178 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:56:22pm |
Also, the very last of the WWI Veterans died today.
| 179 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:56:25pm |
re: #170 jaunte
This New York Times/CBS News poll contradicts his '80%' number, wherever that came from.
Majority in Poll Back Employees In Public Unions
Yeah, I think this is was something that Governor Walker up in Wisconsin did not count on. And if it means more people will understand that union and union members aren't "thugs" like they're made out to be, I'm a happy man.
| 180 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:56:57pm |
re: #161 b_sharp
There is a difference between playing it and playing it sublimely.
It's all in the tips of the finger..Like a lover playing guitar...
I've played for 30 years...I know touch..And I know I don't really have it..I can play..Then I watch Charles and am just amazed at his skilz...
Again..As I said..sort of..If you are a kid in a garage band and play Little wing..People think you are a guitar god
ahhh. those were the fun days
| 181 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:57:02pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
Blah blah.
they seem to enjoy this idea that they're being unfairly persecuted so much that i try not to interfere with their fun...
| 182 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:57:06pm |
re: #177 marjoriemoon
She'll always be the Cross-Your-Heart Bra lady to me.
"Whoops! I have it on!"
-That's the bra commercial I remember
| 183 |
blueraven Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:57:57pm |
re: #152 brookly red
well to be fair I did alluded to the fact that my financial circumstances have suffered under the current administration... (as have many others).
Bush had nothing to do with it./
| 184 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:58:11pm |
re: #175 marjoriemoon
It's a start on defunding them, so they can't compete politically with corporations.
| 185 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:58:21pm |
re: #170 jaunte
This New York Times/CBS News poll contradicts his '80%' number, wherever that came from.
Majority in Poll Back Employees In Public Unions
Of those surveyed, 20 percent said there was a union member in their household, and 25 percent said there was a public employee in their household.
Really? Seems to be some oversampling, no?
Those surveyed said they opposed, 56 percent to 37 percent, cutting the pay or benefits of public employees to reduce deficits, breaking down along similar party lines.
This seems to undercut even more the credibility of this poll. Almost every other poll, regardless of political orientation of the organization finds majorities in favor of reducing benefits of public employees. The great majority of polls I've seen indicate the public opposing reducing a union's bargaining rights.
| 186 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 7:58:42pm |
re: #178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Also, the very last of the WWI Veterans died today.
I heard. Man lived quite a life. . It amazes me thinking about it really. Buckles was older than my grandmother's oldest brother and she'd be 100 next year.
| 187 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:00:23pm |
re: #183 blueraven
Bush had nothing to do with it./
/yes he did, If only he had pulled a Bloomberg and changed the law we wouldn't be in this mess!
| 188 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:00:45pm |
Americans oppose weakening the bargaining rights of public employee unions by a margin of nearly two to one: 60 percent to 33 percent. While a slim majority of Republicans favored taking away some bargaining rights, they were outnumbered by large majorities of Democrats and independents who said they opposed weakening them.
Those surveyed said they opposed, 56 percent to 37 percent, cutting the pay or benefits of public employees to reduce deficits, breaking down along similar party lines
apparantly it's more expensive than some people thought to convince the majority of americans that working people need to make less money
| 189 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:00:57pm |
re: #185 BryanS
Here's the 'how the poll was conducted' info:
The latest New York Times/CBS News poll is based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 24-27 with 984 adults throughout the United States.[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 190 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:03:25pm |
re: #147 HoosierHoops
Back to music..The beauty of Little wing is that it is pretty easy to play..When I was a kid in a garage band we would play it and people would thing you were a Guitar god..
You can't buy that much of an ego boost playing a simple E vamp...
I love Little Wing..Beauty and simplicity
I find it absolutely un-possible to sing and play at the same time. It's worse than patting head + rubbing belly (which I can actually do, and boy has that skill helped me through thick and thin). Little Wing comes to mind as an example of impossibleness, as does Castles Made of Sand.
Almost every single thing Adrian Belew and Mike Keneally do would require me to have at least one additional brain lobe.
short example concert bootleg with terrible sound quality:
| 191 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:04:30pm |
re: #185 BryanS
Really? Seems to be some oversampling, no?
Why? Not all public employees are in scope.
| 192 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:05:18pm |
re: #189 jaunte
Here's the 'how the poll was conducted' info:
ok we asked 984 out of 300,000,000 Americans & and claim +/- 4%
yeah fucking right.
| 193 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:06:39pm |
re: #192 brookly red
ok we asked 984 out of 300,000,000 Americans & and claim +/- 4%
yeah fucking right.
When did you become a statistician?
| 194 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:07:30pm |
re: #189 jaunte
Here's the 'how the poll was conducted' info:
I don't think they did any intentional manipulating of the data, but doesn't 20% of households being union households and 25% being households of government employees seem like it overcounts those populations by a factor of almost double?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
On the order of 10% of the work force is unionized...that's kind of what I figured, but this wiki link seems to back up what I recalled reported elsewhere.
I haven't seen stats before on government employees as percent of work force, but 25% seems very high. This was the best I could find with a quick google search
[Link: wiki.answers.com...]
(about 8% of the work force, all levels of government)
| 195 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:07:36pm |
| 196 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:07:48pm |
Well the way i look at polls is that people will use them when the results support their agenda and shrug em off when they don't. Though I have to say in my general observations the reaction has been against Walker and similar plans.
| 198 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:09:17pm |
Rasmussen polls says that 90 percent of American adults agree with Governor Walker.
Now that sounds like an accurate poll.
//
| 199 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:09:18pm |
re: #192 brookly red
ok we asked 984 out of 300,000,000 Americans & and claim +/- 4%
yeah fucking right.
do you really think it's plausible that most americans would think public high school teachers are overpaid and need to have their compensation cut so that state budgets can be more in balance?
| 200 |
blueraven Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:09:33pm |
re: #187 brookly red
/yes he did, If only he had pulled a Bloomberg and changed the law we wouldn't be in this mess!
You like those dictators huh?//
| 201 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:09:53pm |
| 202 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:11:45pm |
Charlie Sheen is still in the news? Got another on just now at CNN. Apparently he's "on a quest". Yeah, a quest towards oblivion and dementia.
| 203 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:11:47pm |
re: #185 BryanS
Really? Seems to be some oversampling, no?
This seems to undercut even more the credibility of this poll. Almost every other poll, regardless of political orientation of the organization finds majorities in favor of reducing benefits of public employees. The great majority of polls I've seen indicate the public opposing reducing a union's bargaining rights.
That's what I'm reading, too. A lot of people don't favor a cut in collective bargaining rights, but they do want givebacks from the unions in question. It's certainly a reasonable position, though I don't think it goes far enough.
| 204 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:11:49pm |
re: #199 engineer dog
do you really think it's plausible that most americans would think public high school teachers are overpaid and need to have their compensation cut so that state budgets can be more in balance?
Only the 'right' ones think that way.
| 205 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:12:06pm |
re: #194 BryanS
Here's a bls.gov page:
In 2010, 7.6 million public sector employees belonged to a union, compared with 7.1 million union workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent). Within the public sector, local government workers had the highest union membership rate, 42.3 percent. This group includes workers in heavily unionized occupations, such as teachers, police officers, and fire fighters.
Private sector industries with high unionization rates included transportation and utilities (21.8 percent), telecommunications (15.8 percent), and construction (13.1 percent). In 2010, low unionization rates occurred in agriculture and related industries (1.6 percent) and in financial activities (2.0 percent).[Link: www.bls.gov...]
Maybe union members tend to answer the phone.
| 206 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:12:18pm |
re: #199 engineer dog
do you really think it's plausible that most americans would think public high school teachers are overpaid and need to have their compensation cut so that state budgets can be more in balance?
no, but it is plausible that most Americans can do the math & figure out that we either need to pay less or have less. those teachers did a good job, we can count.
| 207 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:12:37pm |
re: #202 Gus 802
Charlie Sheen is still in the news? Got another on just now at CNN. Apparently he's "on a quest". Yeah, a quest towards oblivion and dementia.
Put him back on the dope, he was saner.
| 208 |
What, me worry? Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:13:02pm |
re: #202 Gus 802
Charlie Sheen is still in the news? Got another on just now at CNN. Apparently he's "on a quest". Yeah, a quest towards oblivion and dementia.
I feel sorry for his family, really. He's spinning out of control and that never ends well with addicts. He's a little long in the tooth for this crap.
| 209 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:13:59pm |
re: #190 negativ
EGO ALERT!
I have a good singing voice. It was the talent that I was blessed with. I have sung in front of 10,000 people (national anthem, they didn't come to hear me). I have a very good sense of rhythm and can sing many styles.
So, I'm going to become James Taylor, right?
WRONG! I know G, Em, E, D, C, Cm7, D7, A, Am, Am7, G7 enough to get me ALMOST though about five songs.
Then the assholes throw in bar chords and stuff and I sit there stupid. And don't get me started with strumming/picking patterns. I can grab an F bar chord, but everybody has to wait for a few minutes.
I've been trying for years.
Because of this, I have a, well, almost un-Christian admiration (read, white hot hate of a million burning suns) for people who are instrumentally gifted.
You bastards!
| 210 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14:10pm |
re: #199 engineer dog
do you really think it's plausible that most americans would think public high school teachers are overpaid and need to have their compensation cut so that state budgets can be more in balance?
Americans think all kinds of ridiculous things. For example: Lady Gaga.
| 211 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14:13pm |
re: #208 marjoriemoon
I feel sorry for his family, really. He's spinning out of control and that never ends well with addicts. He's a little long in the tooth for this crap.
Funny. I was thinking this makes him look longer in the tooth. He sounds like some old crazy street bum.
| 212 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14:22pm |
re: #196 HappyWarrior
Well the way i look at polls is that people will use them when the results support their agenda and shrug em off when they don't. Though I have to say in my general observations the reaction has been against Walker and similar plans.
The unions wouldn't have caved on the benefits (really, they've been reneging on that some ) give-back in WI if the public supported them on that point .
Read their position on Walker before his proposals and before he took office--this was when Governor Doyle tried cramming contracts in before Walker took office and Walker lobbied against that.
[Link: www.fox11online.com...]
Walker laid out plans this week to help balance Wisconsin's budget. Those plans include state workers making a five percent contribution to their pensions and increasing their share of health care costs to 12 percent, up from between four and six percent.
"We can no longer live in a society where the public employees are the haves, and the taxpayers who foot the bills are the have-nots," said Walker.
"We certainly aren't the haves, in spite of what he says. I just see this as all political posturing," said Marty Beil.
Beil is executive director of the Wisconsin State Employees Union , which represents 22,000 state workers in various departments including corrections, universities, mental health, and social work.
"It's like the plantation owner talking to the slaves. We've moved in Walker's mentality from public service to public servitude," Beil explained to FOX 11. When asked "Do you really think comparison to plantation owner and slave is accurate?" Beil replied: "I do. I really do because here he sits as the incoming governor, basically issuing mandates about what he wants to happen. Governors and employers don't do that especially in the modern era of labor relations. We sit down at a table to talk about things."
| 213 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14:41pm |
re: #194 BryanS
I was told there would be no math.
| 214 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14:43pm |
re: #189 jaunte
Here's the 'how the poll was conducted' info:
That explains part of it. That poll was 'all adults', whereas Gallop normally polls 'registered voters' and Rasmussen polls 'likely voters'. The latter two are better measures of the mood of the people who matter.
| 215 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:15:45pm |
re: #214 Dark_Falcon
That explains part of it. That poll was 'all adults', whereas Gallop normally polls 'registered voters' and Rasmussen polls 'likely voters'. The latter two are better measures of the mood of the people who matter.
Dewey Wins!
| 216 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:15:58pm |
re: #206 brookly red
no, but it is plausible that most Americans can do the math & figure out that we either need to pay less or have less. those teachers did a good job, we can count.
why is balancing the budget so important now but not last december when the tax cut for $250k/yr was extended?
is it somehow vitally important that people making $250k/yr don't have their state taxes raised but also vitally important that people making $56k/yr do have their benefits cut?
doesn't make any fucking sense to me
| 217 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:16:56pm |
re: #210 negativ
Head a song over the system while getting a hair cut. I asked, "What the hell is that? It is awful!"
Stylist said, "Lady Gaga, I love her!".
Old guy is OLD. Had never heard her.
| 218 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:17:02pm |
re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was told there would be no math.
you say that in 46.839% of posts... whats up with that?
| 219 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:17:17pm |
re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
EGO ALERT!
I have a good singing voice. It was the talent that I was blessed with. I have sung in front of 10,000 people (national anthem, they didn't come to hear me). I have a very good sense of rhythm and can sing many styles.
So, I'm going to become James Taylor, right?
WRONG! I know G, Em, E, D, C, Cm7, D7, A, Am, Am7, G7 enough to get me ALMOST though about five songs.
Then the assholes throw in bar chords and stuff and I sit there stupid. And don't get me started with strumming/picking patterns. I can grab an F bar chord, but everybody has to wait for a few minutes.
I've been trying for years.
Because of this, I have a, well, almost un-Christian admiration (read, white hot hate of a million burning suns) for people who are instrumentally gifted.
You bastards!
What are you worried about, the whole music industry of the 50's got by with only two musical progressions... c,f,g and c am f and g.
Everything else had to be classical music.
| 220 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:17:33pm |
re: #207 b_sharp
Put him back on the dope, he was saner.
So you are Charlie Sheen planning a party for 3-5 days..Hookers, Suite cases of Coke, Booze...So when you run to your bank the day before..How much cash do you ask for from the girl behind the the window?
I mean you don't want to be short...
/
| 221 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:17:41pm |
re: #214 Dark_Falcon
That explains part of it. That poll was 'all adults', whereas Gallop normally polls 'registered voters' and Rasmussen polls 'likely voters'. The latter two are better measures of the mood of the people who matter.
Especially that Rasmussen +5 Repub on all polls... //
| 222 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:18:00pm |
re: #216 engineer dog
why is balancing the budget so important now but not last december when the tax cut for $250k/yr was extended?
is it somehow vitally important that people making $250k/yr don't have their state taxes raised but also vitally important that people making $56k/yr do have their benefits cut?
doesn't make any fucking sense to me
cause now the Chinese want there money?
| 223 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:18:01pm |
re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
EGO ALERT!
I have a good singing voice. It was the talent that I was blessed with. I have sung in front of 10,000 people (national anthem, they didn't come to hear me). I have a very good sense of rhythm and can sing many styles.
So, I'm going to become James Taylor, right?
WRONG! I know G, Em, E, D, C, Cm7, D7, A, Am, Am7, G7 enough to get me ALMOST though about five songs.
Then the assholes throw in bar chords and stuff and I sit there stupid. And don't get me started with strumming/picking patterns. I can grab an F bar chord, but everybody has to wait for a few minutes.
I've been trying for years.
Because of this, I have a, well, almost un-Christian admiration (read, white hot hate of a million burning suns) for people who are instrumentally gifted.
You bastards!
I hear you dude, the ability to play dozens of chords in half a dozen positions each and to finger pick with all 6 5 fingers is my curse.
| 224 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:18:07pm |
re: #192 brookly red
ok we asked 984 out of 300,000,000 Americans & and claim +/- 4%
yeah fucking right.
Golly! Polling has no value!
Who knew?
| 225 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:19:27pm |
From the Gallup FAQ:
In the case of Gallup polls which track the election and the major political, social and economic questions of the day, the target audience is generally referred to as "national adults." Strictly speaking the target audience is all adults, aged 18 and over, living in telephone households within the continental United States. In effect, it is the civilian, non-institutionalized population. College students living on campus, armed forces personnel living on military bases, prisoners, hospital patients and others living in group institutions are not represented in Gallup's "sampling frame." Clearly these exclusions represent some diminishment in the coverage of the population, but because of the practical difficulties involved in attempting to reach the institutionalized population, it is a compromise Gallup usually needs to make. [Link: janda.org...]
| 226 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:19:33pm |
re: #222 brookly red
cause now the Chinese want there money?
it won't be a funny joke for you if the same budget balancing "logic" was applied to your compensation
| 227 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:19:38pm |
re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
(BTW, had heard of her... just had never heard her)
| 228 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:19:53pm |
re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Head a song over the system while getting a hair cut. I asked, "What the hell is that? It is awful!"
Stylist said, "Lady Gaga, I love her!".
Old guy is OLD. Had never heard her.
If you don't like Lady Gaga, listen to Stefani Germanotta instead.
| 229 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:19:54pm |
re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Head a song over the system while getting a hair cut. I asked, "What the hell is that? It is awful!"
Stylist said, "Lady Gaga, I love her!".
Old guy is OLD. Had never heard her.
Would that I could say the same.
Just in the same genre, give me Pink or Gwen Stefani over Gag-gag any day.
| 230 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:20:05pm |
re: #216 engineer dog
why is balancing the budget so important now but not last december when the tax cut for $250k/yr was extended?
is it somehow vitally important that people making $250k/yr don't have their state taxes raised but also vitally important that people making $56k/yr do have their benefits cut?
doesn't make any fucking sense to me
I've never understood this either. I am sorry but this is exactly why I don't many Republicans who claim to be fiscally responsible seriously. We had some Republicans in Virginia who dared to vote for tax increases and their reward was being decried as RINOs. I am not saying tax increases are always necessary but the childish attitude that many in the base have towards them is silly. ESpecially when these are the same people you know who will be complaing abotu the quality of roads, schools, etc.
| 231 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:20:20pm |
re: #226 engineer dog
it won't be a funny joke for you if the same budget balancing "logic" was applied to your compensation
what compensation?
| 232 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:20:24pm |
re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
EGO ALERT!
I have a good singing voice. It was the talent that I was blessed with. I have sung in front of 10,000 people (national anthem, they didn't come to hear me). I have a very good sense of rhythm and can sing many styles.
So, I'm going to become James Taylor, right?
WRONG! I know G, Em, E, D, C, Cm7, D7, A, Am, Am7, G7 enough to get me ALMOST though about five songs.
Then the assholes throw in bar chords and stuff and I sit there stupid. And don't get me started with strumming/picking patterns. I can grab an F bar chord, but everybody has to wait for a few minutes.
I've been trying for years.
Because of this, I have a, well, almost un-Christian admiration (read, white hot hate of a million burning suns) for people who are instrumentally gifted.
You bastards!
In my next life, I plan to ask God for the ability to sing.
| 233 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:20:34pm |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
What are you worried about, the whole music industry of the 50's got by with only two musical progressions... c,f,g and c am f and g.
Everything else had to be classical music.
Blah blah.
| 234 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:20:52pm |
re: #199 engineer dog
do you really think it's plausible that most americans would think public high school teachers are overpaid and need to have their compensation cut so that state budgets can be more in balance?
Salaries? No. Benefits? Yes. Retirement benefits are quite high in particular. Especially when teachers can retire at 57 with full pension, based on highest year's salary--which for experienced teachers is in the $50-$60k range. Wisconsin has a much lower cost of living than many other states, and I can say that is a very comfortable salary and retirement benefit for living in Wisconsin.
Starting pay for teachers sucks--typically in the mid $20k range, kept that way to pay for high salaries and retirement benefits by, you guessed it, the state teachers union WEAC.
| 235 |
sod Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:21:08pm |
| 236 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:21:10pm |
re: #223 b_sharp
Your nic is my absolute guitar nemesis.
| 237 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:21:28pm |
re: #220 HoosierHoops
So you are Charlie Sheen planning a party for 3-5 days..Hookers, Suite cases of Coke, Booze...So when you run to your bank the day before..How much cash do you ask for from the girl behind the the window?
I mean you don't want to be short...
/
Credit cards.
| 238 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:22:42pm |
re: #206 brookly red
no, but it is plausible that most Americans can do the math & figure out that we either need to pay less or have less. those teachers did a good job, we can count.
Explain? How does that relate to teachers in inner city schools? Easy to excel in schools where all of the parents are college graduates. The primary indicator of a child's educational success is the level of education their parents have achieved.
| 239 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:22:58pm |
We can no longer afford to pay teachers 3 million dollars a year on average in the state of Wisconsin!
//
| 240 |
researchok Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:03pm |
re: #232 EmmmieG
In my next life, I plan to ask God for the ability to sing.
In my next life I just want to get through statistics in one piece.
| 241 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:06pm |
re: #216 engineer dog
why is balancing the budget so important now but not last december when the tax cut for $250k/yr was extended?
is it somehow vitally important that people making $250k/yr don't have their state taxes raised but also vitally important that people making $56k/yr do have their benefits cut?
doesn't make any fucking sense to me
I suspect that someone who can't find a job in a market where there are 100 qualified applicants for every available job are not going to give half a shit about the deficit.
Also, I'm about sick to death of politicians of all sorts trying to imply that the budgetary management of a superpower nation's government is in any way analogous to a typical family's household finances.
| 242 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:36pm |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
What are you worried about, the whole music industry of the 50's got by with only two musical progressions... c,f,g and c am f and g.
Everything else had to be classical music.
Almost every song from the 50's can be played by Am-C-F-G
with a bridge
| 243 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:39pm |
re: #231 brookly red
what compensation?
perhaps now would be the time for me to quote those republicans who only a few months ago were saying that unemployment compensation shouldn't be extended because it's just encouraging people to not take all the lower paying jobs that are available - because they greedily want to be offered the same amount that they were making before they lost their jobs
didn't those statements make you as mad as they did me?
| 244 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:46pm |
re: #234 BryanS
I'm not sure why a teacher would stay in a job that started at $20k and topped out at $60k if it didn't come with a pension.
| 245 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:48pm |
My son, who is an excellent guitarist (with some actual genre specific renown), actually breaks out in laughter whenever I try to play.
I tried to teach him kindness. It didn't stick.
| 246 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:23:58pm |
re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Head a song over the system while getting a hair cut. I asked, "What the hell is that? It is awful!"
Stylist said, "Lady Gaga, I love her!".
Old guy is OLD. Had never heard her.
At least you have hair to cut.
| 247 |
Kronocide Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:24:05pm |
re: #241 negativ
I suspect that someone who can't find a job in a market where there are 100 qualified applicants for every available job are not going to give half a shit about the deficit.
Also, I'm about sick to death of politicians of all sorts trying to imply that the budgetary management of a superpower nation's government is in any way analogous to a typical family's household finances.
Or that it needs to be run like a business.
| 249 |
Digital Display Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:24:33pm |
| 250 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:24:39pm |
re: #242 HoosierHoops
Almost every song from the 50's can be played by Am-C-F-G
with a bridge
Awesome!!
(what's a bridge?)
| 252 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:25:47pm |
re: #232 EmmmieG
In my next life, I plan to ask God for the ability to sing.
What bothers me about my singing is everything. I recognize every 'pitchy' note I sing, which is every note I sing.
| 253 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:25:52pm |
re: #244 jaunte
I'm not sure why a teacher would stay in a job that started at $20k and topped out at $60k if it didn't come with a pension.
Not true! Starting salary for teachers in Wisconsin is 1 million a year. Plus a wait staff and chauffeur.
//
| 254 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:26:04pm |
re: #234 BryanS
Salaries? No. Benefits? Yes. Retirement benefits are quite high in particular. Especially when teachers can retire at 57 with full pension, based on highest year's salary--which for experienced teachers is in the $50-$60k range. Wisconsin has a much lower cost of living than many other states, and I can say that is a very comfortable salary and retirement benefit for living in Wisconsin.
Starting pay for teachers sucks--typically in the mid $20k range, kept that way to pay for high salaries and retirement benefits by, you guessed it, the state teachers union WEAC.
how much have you been thinking about your retirement? how much will you get from social security? how's your 401k?
| 256 |
researchok Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:26:24pm |
re: #251 Gus 802
Crap. I can hear humans. Oops. I live in an apartment.
Or, what your hearing isn't real- only a side effect of a fluoride overdose.
(there are days I just can't help myself)
| 257 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:26:51pm |
re: #238 austin_blue
Explain? How does that relate to teachers in inner city schools? Easy to excel in schools where all of the parents are college graduates. The primary indicator of a child's educational success is the level of education their parents have achieved.
wtf are you trying to say? re: #243 engineer dog
perhaps now would be the time for me to quote those republicans who only a few months ago were saying that unemployment compensation shouldn't be extended because it's just encouraging people to not take all the lower paying jobs that are available - because they greedily want to be offered the same amount that they were making before they lost their jobs
didn't those statements make you as mad as they did me?
not really... I was self employed for many years, so I learned to save for a rainy day. I do feel bad for the millions of younger people that have had their futures ruined by debt.
| 258 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:26:54pm |
re: #250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Awesome!!
(what's a bridge?)
F (8 beats)... C (8 beats)... F (8 beats)... D7th (7 beats)... G7th (downbeat... pause)...
| 259 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:27:32pm |
re: #234 BryanS
Salaries? No. Benefits? Yes. Retirement benefits are quite high in particular. Especially when teachers can retire at 57 with full pension, based on highest year's salary--which for experienced teachers is in the $50-$60k range. Wisconsin has a much lower cost of living than many other states, and I can say that is a very comfortable salary and retirement benefit for living in Wisconsin.
Starting pay for teachers sucks--typically in the mid $20k range, kept that way to pay for high salaries and retirement benefits by, you guessed it, the state teachers union WEAC.
Exactly. The pension system is a ponzi scheme, the way its been run. On that score, what Gov. Walker is doing is painful but it will make the system sustainable in the long run. The previous deal gave teachers more than can now be afforded. If they need to quit over that, then they do.
| 260 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:27:34pm |
re: #249 HoosierHoops
You mean hookers and dealers accept American Express?
Damn..
in DC? priceless.
| 261 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:27:44pm |
re: #242 HoosierHoops
Almost every song from the 50's can be played by Am-C-F-G
with a bridge
Well except for The Dave Brubek Quartet's "Time Out". The best album of the fifties. "Take Five", "Blue Rondo a La Turk", brilliant stuff.
| 262 |
researchok Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:28:16pm |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
F (8 beats)... C (8 beats)... F (8 beats)... D7th (7 beats)... G7th (downbeat... pause)...
All those beats...
My dad was a maestro.
| 263 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:28:30pm |
re: #244 jaunte
I'm not sure why a teacher would stay in a job that started at $20k and topped out at $60k if it didn't come with a pension.
Perhaps because they like their career choice? I agree the starting pay sucks. I say, give starting teachers no less than $35k, and you'll start getting people in Wisconsin interested in teaching and able to afford their college loans for their degree. Pay for it by making teachers work like the rest of us till say 65 before they are eligible for their pension.
| 264 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:28:42pm |
re: #236 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Your nic is my absolute guitar nemesis.
Practice.
I haven't picked up a guitar in months. I better change my nic.
| 265 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:07pm |
re: #264 b_sharp
Practice.
I haven't picked up a guitar in months. I better change my nic.
...or be square.
| 266 |
b_Snark Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:10pm |
re: #240 researchok
In my next life I just want to get through statistics in one piece.
I loved stats, but hated probability. Weird, huh?
| 267 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:25pm |
re: #257 brookly red
wtf are you trying to say? re: #243 engineer dog
not really... I was self employed for many years, so I learned to save for a rainy day. I do feel bad for the millions of younger people that have had their futures ruined by debt.
Well, that makes it okay then, doesn't it? The key to the future is an undereducated work force.
Got it. Brilliant.
| 269 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:37pm |
re: #252 b_sharp
What bothers me about my singing is everything. I recognize every 'pitchy' note I sing, which is every note I sing.
What bothers me is that I am nowhere near the note.
It's a genetic thing. My entire family is wince-worthy.
(Except, for those of you who have looked at my nic, my mother, who failed to pass down her ability to sing nicely.)
| 270 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:43pm |
| 271 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:30:45pm |
| 273 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:00pm |
| 274 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:02pm |
re: #263 BryanS
Perhaps because they like their career choice? I agree the starting pay sucks. I say, give starting teachers no less than $35k, and you'll start getting people in Wisconsin interested in teaching and able to afford their college loans for their degree. Pay for it by making teachers work like the rest of us till say 65 before they are eligible for their pension.
That's decent idea, though the union would hate it. For them, such an action would threaten their ability to determine what top dollar is for their members. That would of course make the union less useful, which a secondary reason why I'd support such a measure.
| 275 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:06pm |
re: #248 sod
David Lynch cooks quinoa.
[Video]
How he can create drama and tension just cooking quinoa, I don't know. Something about his cadence.
| 276 |
researchok Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:25pm |
re: #266 b_sharp
I loved stats, but hated probability. Weird, huh?
All of it was a nightmare for me.
I made it through the intro OK- after that...darkness.
| 277 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:38pm |
re: #243 engineer dog
not really... I was self employed for many years, so I learned to save for a rainy day. I do feel bad for the millions of younger people that have had their futures ruined by debt.
so when you say "what compensation?" you really mean "my ability to pay my rent and buy food isn't vulnerable like other people, so i don't care if they are forced to take less money for their work"
| 279 |
researchok Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:31:47pm |
| 280 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:32:12pm |
| 281 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:32:23pm |
re: #254 engineer dog
how much have you been thinking about your retirement? how much will you get from social security? how's your 401k?
Like most everyone not working a government job, I will be working likely until eligible for social security--for my age group I think that's currently 67, but I've got a few decades of socking away into my 401k before I'm really worried about it.
I don't plan on ever getting social security. My generation won't get the same benefit current generations get, and really, I'm fine with that. I'm assuming I won't get benefits since the only real solution I can imagine will be means testing for benefits.
| 282 |
What, me worry? Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:32:26pm |
re: #269 EmmmieG
What bothers me is that I am nowhere near the note.
It's a genetic thing. My entire family is wince-worthy.
(Except, for those of you who have looked at my nic, my mother, who failed to pass down her ability to sing nicely.)
Mothers don't have to know how to sing, but they should sing anyway.
I always sing, much to the chagrin of the people around me. I'm like the Honey Badger. I just don't give a shit.
| 283 |
sod Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:32:30pm |
| 284 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:32:36pm |
| 285 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:33:47pm |
re: #282 marjoriemoon
Mothers don't have to know how to sing, but they should sing anyway.
I always sing, much to the chagrin of the people around me. I'm like the Honey Badger. I just don't give a shit.
That's me and talking to myself. I'm the worst when I'm frustrated.
Which means certain activities (sewing) sound like I'm filming a documentary.
| 286 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:34:14pm |
re: #273 Walter L. Newton
Disco!
I would do an E9 or any 9 for disco. Of course you can do that with Reggae.
E7#9 is the "Hendrix" chord.
| 287 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:34:25pm |
re: #267 austin_blue
Well, that makes it okay then, doesn't it? The key to the future is an undereducated work force.
Got it. Brilliant.
where do you get of with this bullshit, as it is now half the kids can't read & the other half don't graduate and for 50 years all you have said is we need more money... FU. besides, what work force? there are no jobs thank you very much.
| 288 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:34:39pm |
Got to grab a shower... they threw an extra overnight at me this week, tonight, bbiab.
| 289 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:35:13pm |
| 290 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:35:43pm |
re: #248 sod
David Lynch cooks quinoa.
[Video]
"to buy some time you have some wine"
What a great clip. Much thanks for posting
| 291 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:36:07pm |
| 292 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:36:11pm |
re: #229 wlewisiii
Would that I could say the same.
Just in the same genre, give me Pink or Gwen Stefani over Gag-gag any day.
Gwen Stefani is kind of ridiculously hot.
| 293 |
sod Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:36:12pm |
| 296 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:37:12pm |
re: #282 marjoriemoon
Mothers don't have to know how to sing, but they should sing anyway.
I always sing, much to the chagrin of the people around me. I'm like the Honey Badger. I just don't give a shit.
Hey! I always sing, too! I like to do operatic like trills. We came home the other day and my two kids came in the door behind me, and they both broke out in these high C notes! I was so touched, my little chicks were copying me.
| 297 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:37:39pm |
re: #291 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Where do you press "one" for English?
you want me banned don't you...
| 298 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:37:50pm |
re: #281 BryanS
Like most everyone not working a government job, I will be working likely until eligible for social security--for my age group I think that's currently 67, but I've got a few decades of socking away into my 401k before I'm really worried about it.
I don't plan on ever getting social security. My generation won't get the same benefit current generations get, and really, I'm fine with that. I'm assuming I won't get benefits since the only real solution I can imagine will be means testing for benefits.
You don't have a retirement plan with the company you work for? Really? What the heck do you do for a living? The vast majority of private employers
have some form of retirement. That might be a structured program or one based on the performance of the company stock (which can be sucky).
| 299 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:37:50pm |
re: #274 Dark_Falcon
That's decent idea, though the union would hate it. For them, such an action would threaten their ability to determine what top dollar is for their members. That would of course make the union less useful, which a secondary reason why I'd support such a measure.
Teachers unions in particular are absolutely horrible for younger workers. Job retention is based entirely on seniority--no consideration whatsoever to any other factor. Pay and benefits hugely go to those with longest time in the union. In a funny twist of fate--smelling the winds of change, no doubt--WEAC announced the day before (hah!) Walker's budget plan that they were willing to reconsider their long standing opposition to pay structure and the seniority system.
| 300 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:38:03pm |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
What are you worried about, the whole music industry of the 50's got by with only two musical progressions... c,f,g and c am f and g.
Everything else had to be classical music.
Accurate!
In the 50s, Middle America (whatever the hell that was) somehow found out about "Modernism" which, ironically, had been invented about 40 years earlier. American culture dabbled briefly in the appreciation of such degenerates as Igor Stravinsky, John Cage, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and several other people with un-American names. Luckily, the likes of Paul Anka and Frankie Avalon swooped in just in time to rescue the Youth of Today Yester-year from their brief but potentially disastrous flirtation with sophisticated cultural elitism.
| 301 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:38:22pm |
re: #257 brookly red
wtf are you trying to say? re: #243 engineer dog
not really... I was self employed for many years, so I learned to save for a rainy day. I do feel bad for the millions of younger people that have had their futures ruined by debt.
look, red, i don't mean to rag on you particularly, but would it kill republicans to come up with a little compassion for a group of people making less than the median salary in this country, and not go after their livelyhoods?
| 302 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:38:23pm |
re: #287 brookly red
where do you get of with this bullshit, as it is now half the kids can't read & the other half don't graduate and for 50 years all you have said is we need more money... FU. besides, what work force? there are no jobs thank you very much.
Well not entirely, but it is true that teacher's unions keep wanting more, while always working to block or undermine all reform efforts that could threaten their position. Now those in the Badger State are getting some pushback. Hopefully, they'll learn from the experience and next time they'll be more sensitive to fiscal realities in making their demands.
| 303 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:14pm |
re: #298 austin_blue
You don't have a retirement plan with the company you work for? Really? What the heck do you do for a living? The vast majority of private employers
have some form of retirement. That might be a structured program or one based on the performance of the company stock (which can be sucky).
I didn't intend to say I don't have a retirement plan--I do, it's a 401k--I just meant to say I'm a long ways away from retirement.
| 304 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:17pm |
re: #301 engineer dog
look, red, i don't mean to rag on you particularly, but would it kill republicans to come up with a little compassion for a group of people making less than the median salary in this country, and not go after their livelyhoods?
sure & what group would that be? & please don't say union workers cause I will have to go there...
| 305 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:21pm |
re: #297 brookly red
No. But, that was a funny joke.
| 306 |
What, me worry? Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:28pm |
re: #296 prairiefire
Hey! I always sing, too! I like to do operatic like trills. We came home the other day and my two kids came in the door behind me, and they both broke out in these high C notes! I was so touched, my little chicks were copying me.
They listen don't they! My mother used to sing me this:
(Starting from the Button Up Your Overcoat part :>)
| 307 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:31pm |
re: #301 engineer dog
look, red, i don't mean to rag on you particularly, but would it kill republicans to come up with a little compassion for a group of people making less than the median salary in this country, and not go after their livelyhoods?
They're the easy targets for now. No one's going to start by going after the police and firefighters unions.
| 308 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:40:36pm |
re: #281 BryanS
Like most everyone not working a government job, I will be working likely until eligible for social security--for my age group I think that's currently 67, but I've got a few decades of socking away into my 401k before I'm really worried about it.
I don't plan on ever getting social security. My generation won't get the same benefit current generations get, and really, I'm fine with that. I'm assuming I won't get benefits since the only real solution I can imagine will be means testing for benefits.
if that's the way you look at it, you have placed your old age in the hands of a bunch of gamblers
it doesn't look quite so sunny and easy when you're on the shady side of the hill, son
| 309 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:41:00pm |
David Lynch Loves Quinoa Pt. 2
| 310 |
schnapp Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:41:39pm |
| 311 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:42:33pm |
re: #245 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My son, who is an excellent guitarist (with some actual genre specific renown), actually breaks out in laughter whenever I try to play.
I tried to teach him kindness. It didn't stick.
Somewhere in the musical pantheon is a player who intimidates the hell out of him and makes him want to stop playing. Your job is to:
1. find out who that is, and
2. forcibly introduce your son to said player, and make a big deal out of what a great guitarist your son is.
| 312 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:42:41pm |
re: #299 BryanS
To be fair to the unions, the seniority system was introduced to prevent abuses. At the time, it was felt to be the only way to prevent layoffs from being capricious. But I think its possible to do better, by using things like test scores to determine retention. Let the jobs go to the most qualified!
| 313 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:42:43pm |
re: #309 Killgore Trout
David Lynch Loves Quinoa Pt. 2
[Video]
Is it easier to digest than rice? I can't eat rice anymore. It's like eating gravel.
| 314 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:44:12pm |
re: #263 BryanS
Perhaps because they like their career choice? I agree the starting pay sucks. I say, give starting teachers no less than $35k, and you'll start getting people in Wisconsin interested in teaching and able to afford their college loans for their degree. Pay for it by making teachers work like the rest of us till say 65 before they are eligible for their pension.
Given that half of all teachers leave the profession within five years, are we really seeing so very many people demanding their pensions as all that?
| 315 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:44:41pm |
re: #304 brookly red
sure & what group would that be? & please don't say union workers cause I will have to go there...
well, i tried
i really don't know what to say about people who become obsessed with the idea they need to reduce the money made by other ordinary middle class people
| 316 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:44:58pm |
re: #303 BryanS
Sometimes, it is a shame that Charles won't let us type the number of "O"s it really takes to spell "LOO00OO00OO00OO00OO00ng ways away from retirement".
| 317 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:45:35pm |
re: #307 jaunte
They're the easy targets for now. No one's going to start by going after the police and firefighters unions.
It's also that the teacher's unions always endorse Democrats and attack Republicans, so its not like a Republican is making enemies in opposing them. By contrast, police and firefighter's unions are swing groups, and that means that both parties actively court them.
| 318 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:45:39pm |
re: #308 engineer dog
if that's the way you look at it, you have placed your old age in the hands of a bunch of gamblers
it doesn't look quite so sunny and easy when you're on the shady side of the hill, son
Not really--as I near retirement, I will shift investments into safer investments. If anything, the last decade has shown me how extra cautious I will need to be as I approach the golden years.
| 319 |
Interesting Times Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:45:54pm |
re: #313 prairiefire
Is it easier to digest than rice? I can't eat rice anymore. It's like eating gravel.
I find it much lighter than rice, personally, with a nicer texture. And yet, despite that lightness, after eating it you still feel satiated.
| 320 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:46:01pm |
re: #303 BryanS
I didn't intend to say I don't have a retirement plan--I do, it's a 401k--I just meant to say I'm a long ways away from retirement.
Pro tip: when you reach retirement age, your 401k plus $35 will buy you a cup of coffee.
/not doing any better myself, just pointing out the facts.
| 321 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:46:14pm |
re: #261 austin_blue
Well except for The Dave Brubek Quartet's "Time Out". The best album of the fifties. "Take Five", "Blue Rondo a La Turk", brilliant stuff.
Well, I'll say "best non-rock pop album" of the 50's. That's cutting a fine line, I realize but there where some insanely great jazz albums in that 10 years that are much less remembered than even "take five". The Quintet at Massey Hall or Duke at Newport or almost anything Miles did; "Kind of Blue" if you must. Much as I dearly love Take Five, those three alone blow it away.
| 322 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:46:31pm |
re: #307 jaunte
They're the easy targets for now. No one's going to start by going after the police and firefighters unions.
Prison guards. Now that's the union in California that you don't want to go after.
Oddly, I never see much ranting and raving about that.
| 323 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:46:49pm |
re: #313 prairiefire
Is it easier to digest than rice? I can't eat rice anymore. It's like eating gravel.
Yes, Definitely.
| 324 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:46:58pm |
Well. I think it's pretty funny that within the alleged richest nation in the world to be alarmed by what might be considered above average salaries by state or union workers.
| 325 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:47:34pm |
re: #307 jaunte
They're the easy targets for now. No one's going to start by going after the police and firefighters unions.
It's simple. If they went after the firefighters/cops union, they'd be crucified. I hate to say it but it's a lot easier to go after a teacher's union than the former.
| 326 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:47:38pm |
re: #287 brookly red
where do you get of with this bullshit, as it is now half the kids can't read & the other half don't graduate and for 50 years all you have said is we need more money... FU. besides, what work force? there are no jobs thank you very much.
Outside of your rage, I agree. There are, right now, five applicants for every available job.
I don't appreciate the Fuck You, but really, when are you going to ask yourself who is responsible for this situation? Is it the Dems, who have continually preesed for funds to educate our kids for the 21st century, or the Repubs, who have continually underfunded education to do the exact opposite?
I think your vitriol is misplaced. I think we all want the same thing, an educated, skilled population of workers. But really, is your argument valid?
I don't think so. Way too simplistic.
| 327 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:47:46pm |
| 328 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:19pm |
re: #317 Dark_Falcon
True. I also think the fear of having no police or fire protection is much more immediate and visceral than the fear of incompetently educating someone else's children.
| 329 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:26pm |
I have to admit that David Lynch making quinoa is one of the most mesmerizing things I've seen in quite some time.
| 330 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:28pm |
re: #311 negativ
My son is imbued with, "It might take time, but I'll eventually be better than that guy!"
I raised him to be braver than me. I am "The little engine that 'might be able to'", raised my kids to be "The little engine that made the honey badger look like a pu**y".
| 331 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:31pm |
re: #315 engineer dog
well, i tried
i really don't know what to say about people who become obsessed with the idea they need to reduce the money made by other ordinary middle class people, who get paid by other ordinary people who can no longer afford it.
look I don't care how much they make, give em big raises & just have less of them, what ever, There is no more money, we are in deficit, period, end of discussion.
| 332 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:33pm |
What even funnier is the witch hunt that the right wing is leading against these same workers and painting them as the cause of our current economic turmoil. This in light of the recent financial meltdown which had little to do with these workers. So they choose to completely ignore Wall Street and instead choose to pick on the American working class.
| 333 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:48:58pm |
| 334 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:49:14pm |
re: #317 Dark_Falcon
It's also that the teacher's unions always endorse Democrats and attack Republicans, so its not like a Republican is making enemies in opposing them. By contrast, police and firefighter's unions are swing groups, and that means that both parties actively court them.
That seems like a good reason for a Republican Governor to weaken them as much as he can.
| 335 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:49:46pm |
re: #312 Dark_Falcon
To be fair to the unions, the seniority system was introduced to prevent abuses. At the time, it was felt to be the only way to prevent layoffs from being capricious. But I think its possible to do better, by using things like test scores to determine retention. Let the jobs go to the most qualified!
It is an out-moded means of trying to ensure fairness. I agree testing on year over year improvements of a cohort of students needs to be part of a teacher evaluation. The crappy starting wage for teachers also harkens back to what was ok for the women of the family to earn--typically the second income in an age when second incomes weren't often necessary.
Honestly, with the leftward leaning of unions, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been made into a bigger issue. But then again, unions are interested in protecting the vested interests of long standing members, not protecting those entering the field.
| 336 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:50:25pm |
re: #326 austin_blue
Outside of your rage, I agree. There are, right now, five applicants for every available job.
I don't appreciate the Fuck You, but really, when are you going to ask yourself who is responsible for this situation? Is it the Dems, who have continually preesed for funds to educate our kids for the 21st century, or the Repubs, who have continually underfunded education to do the exact opposite?
I think your vitriol is misplaced. I think we all want the same thing, an educated, skilled population of workers. But really, is your argument valid?
I don't think so. Way too simplistic.
I have neither rage nor vitriol & if you don't stop the first year law school tactics you will be discussing this with your self.
| 337 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:51:06pm |
re: #335 BryanS
testing on year over year improvements of a cohort of students
The teachers working in the wealthier school districts will do fine, the others not so well.
| 338 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:51:20pm |
G'night knuckleheads! Don't drive like my brother!
| 339 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:51:22pm |
Correct me if I am wrong here but I have heard of teachers unions supporting Republicans before. Not gonna deny they lean Democratic in their endorsements but it's not monolithic either.And I have to say as a former special needs student, the idea of cutting the number of teachers and thus increasing student to teacher radio is a bad one. There's a reason why politicians talk up smaller class sizes and I can attest it's good for the kids.
| 340 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:51:40pm |
And this isn't class warfare? This is class warfare perpetrated by the right wing. Adding insult to injury is that the right wing also attracts a middle class following that are in the same or worse financial condition then the left who is allegedly leading class warfare against the poor victimized super rich.
| 341 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:51:52pm |
re: #303 BryanS
I didn't intend to say I don't have a retirement plan--I do, it's a 401k--I just meant to say I'm a long ways away from retirement.
Well, that's completely different then, isn't it? You have the option of diverting additional income into other investment instruments, don't you? Please do so!
| 342 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:52:44pm |
re: #314 SanFranciscoZionist
Given that half of all teachers leave the profession within five years, are we really seeing so very many people demanding their pensions as all that?
Starting pay sucks, so I can see why they could get discouraged when they can't pay bills.
Is that kind of statistic all that out of line with other private sector jobs? I don't know the numbers, but in private business, I think I see about that number leaving in a 5yr time frame almost any job.
| 343 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:52:57pm |
There was a website, forget where it was, that compared how schools do with how they ought to do. They look at who the parents are, educationally and financially, and compare the students' scores with what they should be.
| 344 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:53:04pm |
Night, lizards. I hope I have the same dream again as last night. Those two crazy kids Will and Kate invited me over for their wedding and I got to wear long gowns and live in a Georgian mansion.
| 346 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:53:42pm |
Hey banks should raise interest rates! So should credit card companies! We should bring back all of the penalties that the banks were laying on consumers in the worst Ponzi scheme (or whatever you want to call it) perpetrated on the American public. This includes overdraft charges.
| 347 |
schnapp Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:53:48pm |
| 348 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:53:52pm |
re: #332 Gus 802
What even funnier is the witch hunt that the right wing is leading against these same workers and painting them as the cause of our current economic turmoil. This in light of the recent financial meltdown which had little to do with these workers. So they choose to completely ignore Wall Street and instead choose to pick on the American working class.
Wall Street bankrolls major candidates. Smart people do not bite the hand that gives them the money needed for campaign commercials. Wisconsin is large enough that raising statewide political stature requires lots of money. Hence you need unions or the Koch brothers to back you, because without deep pockets you can't win.
| 349 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:54:01pm |
re: #331 brookly red
look I don't care how much they make, give em big raises & just have less of them, what ever, There is no more money, we are in deficit, period, end of discussion.
one more time and please stop ignoring it: did you or did you not support extending the bush tax cuts for people making $250k/yr and over?
| 350 |
Kragar Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:54:52pm |
re: #329 Killgore Trout
I have to admit that David Lynch making quinoa is one of the most mesmerizing things I've seen in quite some time.
More mesmerizing than the need to respect and obey authority?
| 351 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:55:05pm |
re: #321 wlewisiii
Well, I'll say "best non-rock pop album" of the 50's. That's cutting a fine line, I realize but there where some insanely great jazz albums in that 10 years that are much less remembered than even "take five". The Quintet at Massey Hall or Duke at Newport or almost anything Miles did; "Kind of Blue" if you must. Much as I dearly love Take Five, those three alone blow it away.
Ehhh..personal preference. taking jazz out of 4/4 was seminal.
Just my opinion. I certainly respect yours.
| 352 |
Interesting Times Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:55:28pm |
re: #324 Gus 802
Well. I think it's pretty funny that within the alleged richest nation in the world to be alarmed by what might be considered above average salaries by state or union workers.
Koch brothers have to put up with marginal tax hike back to Clinton-era levels?
OMG SOCIALIST TYRANNY!!!11!!
Middle-class workers have to suck up huge pay cuts, benefit slashing, and layoffs?
USA! USA! USA!
Why should China dominate the wage-slave market? It's a race to the bottom, and we're going to WIN!
| 353 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:55:58pm |
re: #336 brookly red
I have neither rage nor vitriol & if you don't stop the first year law school tactics you will be discussing this with your self.
Whaa?
| 354 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:56:28pm |
re: #314 SanFranciscoZionist
Given that half of all teachers leave the profession within five years, are we really seeing so very many people demanding their pensions as all that?
Everybody knows that all teachers do is intentionally make kids illiterate, force them to become gay, and give them all trophies for everything. So yes, in accordance with the American authoritarian tradition that solves every problem by GITTIN' TUFF, all teachers need to be fired and demonized and stigmatized, because they're all Che Guevara-worshiping neo-proto-pre-postmodern patrio-psychotic secular anarcho-materialists, and we don't want these people forcing their values on our children.
| 355 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:56:44pm |
re: #342 BryanS
Starting pay sucks, so I can see why they could get discouraged when they can't pay bills.
Is that kind of statistic all that out of line with other private sector jobs? I don't know the numbers, but in private business, I think I see about that number leaving in a 5yr time frame almost any job.
Starting pay is not that bad around here--it varies quite a bit, and has gone up dramatically in the past decade or two. Teaching pays quite a bit better than the kind of admin jobs I worked out of college.
My question is, what percentage of teachers actually work long enough to retire and receive these lavish pension benefits? Is this another example of the boomers being the pig in the python?
| 356 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:56:48pm |
re: #335 BryanS
It is an out-moded means of trying to ensure fairness. I agree testing on year over year improvements of a cohort of students needs to be part of a teacher evaluation. The crappy starting wage for teachers also harkens back to what was ok for the women of the family to earn--typically the second income in an age when second incomes weren't often necessary.
Honestly, with the leftward leaning of unions, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been made into a bigger issue. But then again, unions are interested in protecting the vested interests of long standing members, not protecting those entering the field.
Quite Concur.
| 357 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:58:13pm |
Americans lose billions by being ripped off by insurance companies, credit card companies, banks, hospital bills, auto dealers, consumer products, etc. Billions and billions that pale in comparison to what they pay for state labor. When are the Tea Partiers going to protest about that? No, instead they come all the way to Madison to bitch and moan about state union workers. A group of people most of whom are sucking on the government tit just like everybody else and being ripped far more by the private sector than they ever will by governments.
| 358 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:58:31pm |
re: #347 schnapp
such as?
re: #333 negativ
how?
the arguments he claims to refute here are ones i have never heard any progressives make, and he "refutes" them with fictions
Yes, the huge increase in the top MTR under Hoover and Roosevelt didn’t raise much revenue, but that was because it “just so happened” that America’s income distribution got much more equal after 1930. No supply-side effects there. And yes, the Reagan tax cuts on the rich were actually associated with more revenue, but that’s because it “just so happened” that the income distribution got much less equal after 1980. And yes the Europeans don’t actually raise much more revenue than we do, despite higher tax rates, but that’s because it “just so happens” that Europeans work less. You say they work less for tax reasons? Don’t be silly—it “just so happens” the Germans and French have lazy, happy-go-lucky cultures. You say the French worked as hard as Americans in the 1960s? It “just so happens” this distinctive French culture developed only in the past few decades, when their tax rates rose far above American levels.
| 359 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:59:23pm |
re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist
Starting pay is not that bad around here--it varies quite a bit, and has gone up dramatically in the past decade or two. Teaching pays quite a bit better than the kind of admin jobs I worked out of college.
My question is, what percentage of teachers actually work long enough to retire and receive these lavish pension benefits? Is this another example of the boomers being the pig in the python?
My aunt (a boomer) is near retirement (high school principal--her school is remarkable, and if I can find a way to do it without giving away too much info about me, I'll tell you what the school is).
I know at least two more friends my age who went into teaching.
I also know a lot of women who are certified teachers and stay at home mothers or part-time substitutes.
| 360 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:59:41pm |
re: #352 publicityStunted
Why should China dominate the wage-slave market? It's a race to the bottom, and we're going to WIN!
Speaking of which, the BBC had a two part documentary a few weeks ago titled "The Chinese are Coming". The reporter travels through Africa, South America, and the US to see how China's growing world economic influence is affecting other nations.
One point here - the reason teacher's unions have not collapsed like so many other unions is because teaching is a job that (up till now) requires close personal contact and thus can't be outsourced to Asia.
Their is an interesting parallel in fields of medicine, too.
| 361 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:59:51pm |
re: #358 engineer dog
The Germans have a happy-go-lucky culture?
| 362 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:00:00pm |
re: #337 jaunte
The teachers working in the wealthier school districts will do fine, the others not so well.
Possibly...but I disagree with the notion that students in poor districts cannot see improvement in a year of teaching. The debate seems stuck on the notion that students coming into a grade are behind, so of course they will test worse than comparable students in a wealthy district.
But I am saying test core competencies once a year. If you teach 4th grade, next year when your students are in 5th grade and tested again, compare competencies as tested and compared to the 4th grade performance. Standardized tests are often given for a range of grades, so it is possible to track improvement.
Then, give bonus pay on improvements. Make that bonus pay go to top performers within a district.
| 363 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:00:51pm |
re: #346 Gus 802
How about actively engaging Bryan and I, instead of knocking over strawmen you've built?
| 364 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:01:03pm |
re: #341 austin_blue
Well, that's completely different then, isn't it? You have the option of diverting additional income into other investment instruments, don't you? Please do so!
I am...as I'm saying, social security won't be the same for me as for current and near retirees. I'm planning accordingly.
| 365 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:01:13pm |
re: #336 brookly red
I have neither rage nor vitriol & if you don't stop the first year law school tactics you will be discussing this with your self.
Talking to themselves would probably be more productive than trying to discuss it with you as the sole interlocutor.
| 366 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:01:14pm |
| 367 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:01:29pm |
Quit siding with the wealthy elitist corporate class. You're never going to be rich. You're never going to win Lotto. There is no bling in your future. You're stuck in this working class lifestyle for the rest of your life. Koch and his minions don't give a shit about you and never will. You think that the government sucks wait until the time comes when the private sector runs everything as these libertarians, Randians, keep promoting.
| 368 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:01:47pm |
re: #324 Gus 802
Well. I think it's pretty funny that within the alleged richest nation in the world to be alarmed by what might be considered above average salaries by state or union workers.
Parable currently in vogue:
A unionized employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "better watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
| 369 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:02:08pm |
re: #363 Dark_Falcon
How about actively engaging Bryan and I, instead of knocking over strawmen you've built?
Hey DF. I'm on autopilot. I also don't take orders.
| 370 |
Interesting Times Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:02:19pm |
re: #349 engineer dog
one more time and please stop ignoring it: did you or did you not support extending the bush tax cuts for people making $250k/yr and over?
The typical right-wing response to this question is that idiotic "Herp derp, a poor man never gave anyone a job!" talking point. Never mind the fact that consumer spending by poor/middle-class people is what helped those people become rich in the first place!
| 371 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:04:05pm |
Who is represented by a union here tonight?
| 372 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:04:09pm |
re: #349 engineer dog
one more time and please stop ignoring it: did you or did you not support extending the bush tax cuts for people making $250k/yr and over?
double checking, i do see that i indeed did frame this in the form of a question
would any of those people who so strongly feel that all budgets need to be balanced RIGHT NOW on the backs of high school teacher care to address this little point?
| 373 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:04:48pm |
re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist
Starting pay is not that bad around here--it varies quite a bit, and has gone up dramatically in the past decade or two. Teaching pays quite a bit better than the kind of admin jobs I worked out of college.
My question is, what percentage of teachers actually work long enough to retire and receive these lavish pension benefits? Is this another example of the boomers being the pig in the python?
Could be the case on the glut of retirements question. But if half of teachers flame out in 5yrs, presumably the other half hang on longer. When I was in high school, most of my teachers were less than 10 years from retirement. They're almost all gone form the school now. Because teachers can often retire so early, I think we've seen the leading edge of teacher retirements already.
| 374 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:04:58pm |
re: #368 negativ
Parable currently in vogue:
A unionized employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "better watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
It's not that far off. Where is their anger at CEOs? But no they (the TPers) act like everything bad is union or government's fault. Some people accuse hte left of having a little too much faith in the government and they're right to some degree but I counter-accuse that they have too much faith in the market and business. After all businesses are always out for numero uno first and foremost.
| 375 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:05:22pm |
| 376 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:05:32pm |
re: #362 BryanS
Have you been following Bill Gates' speeches?
Gates advocates using videos of teachers' lessons as tools to help drive improvement, along with interviews of peer teachers and even students to gauge a teacher's effectiveness. The Gates foundation is working with seven urban districts toward "fair and reliable measures" of teacher effectiveness.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
| 377 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:05:56pm |
| 378 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:06:09pm |
re: #362 BryanS
Possibly...but I disagree with the notion that students in poor districts cannot see improvement in a year of teaching. The debate seems stuck on the notion that students coming into a grade are behind, so of course they will test worse than comparable students in a wealthy district.
But I am saying test core competencies once a year. If you teach 4th grade, next year when your students are in 5th grade and tested again, compare competencies as tested and compared to the 4th grade performance. Standardized tests are often given for a range of grades, so it is possible to track improvement.
Then, give bonus pay on improvements. Make that bonus pay go to top performers within a district.
That sounds workable. Of course, the unions will oppose that, since merit pay strikes at their ability to determine top dollar.
| 379 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:06:31pm |
re: #368 negativ
Parable currently in vogue:
A unionized employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "better watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
Hence the name Tea Party. They're always getting cookies for the rich.
| 381 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:07:21pm |
re: #374 HappyWarrior
It's not that far off. Where is their anger at CEOs? But no they (the TPers) act like everything bad is union or government's fault. Some people accuse hte left of having a little too much faith in the government and they're right to some degree but I counter-accuse that they have too much faith in the market and business. After all businesses are always out for numero uno first and foremost.
And I'm basically have been, and still are. Because if they weren't, then I may not have been able to work at some of the jobs I have worked at and made some of the money I have made in the past.
| 382 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:07:29pm |
re: #368 negativ
Parable currently in vogue:
A unionized employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "better watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
QFT.
| 383 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:07:48pm |
re: #376 jaunte
Have you been following Bill Gates' speeches?
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
I really disliked Microsoft's tactics in the past. And of course I hated Bill because of it.
But now, in hindsight, he's a decent guy.
| 384 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:08:32pm |
Here's the first of 4 Youtube segments of Part 1 of that BBC documentary:
then follow on to the other 3 segments.
Here's the first of 4 segments for Part 2:
and follow links likewise.
Decide for yourself if the Africans would be better off with unions, or if the American's would be better off not off-shoring manufacturing... but realize, the world is changing.
Question is, what part do we want to play in the future?
| 385 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:08:40pm |
| 386 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:09:13pm |
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Who is represented by a union here tonight?
I joined a union in my job, then they voted out the union and formed an "association". nttawwt. We haven't had a bargaining session in 10 years that wasn't with a take away of some part of our compensation.
| 387 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:10:01pm |
re: #378 Dark_Falcon
That sounds workable. Of course, the unions will oppose that, since merit pay strikes at their ability to determine top dollar.
The obsession with merit pay is, frankly, irritating to me. We have schools with no computers and enough books for half the class out there, and the solution is to give extra money to the teacher who figures out how to overcome the inadequacy of the school plant?
| 388 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:10:08pm |
re: #369 Gus 802
Hey DF. I'm on autopilot. I also don't take orders.
Well, if you're on autopilot, allow me to introduce you to this SLAMRAAM prototype. It's not going into series production, but I can't stand letting good missiles go to waste. Enjoy... [launches 2 SAMs at Gus]
/entirely kidding
| 389 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:11:15pm |
re: #381 Walter L. Newton
And I'm basically have been, and still are. Because if they weren't, then I may not have been able to work at some of the jobs I have worked at and made some of the money I have made in the past.
Which is fine, but often the criticism of the unions seems to come down to 'they're trying to get money and stuff for their members'. That's not considered a bad thing when corporations do it, it's expected.
| 390 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:11:15pm |
re: #386 mracb
I joined a union in my job, then they voted out the union and formed an "association". nttawwt. We haven't had a bargaining session in 10 years that wasn't with a take away of some part of our compensation.
Exactly what the Koch brothers live to hear! After all you firefighters are nothing but social parasites...
///
| 391 |
schnapp Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:11:19pm |
As usual, Jeremy Clarkson provides the best insight out of everyone on education.
From The Times archives:
Schools are trying to break children
Public school is the hell we need
| 393 |
mikefromArlington Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:11:56pm |
Anonymous 1
HBGary 0
[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]
Koch are next. I'll enjoy watching these selfish frauds exposed. Hopefully this libertarian la la land these bozos want to trick the US into buying into will finally get some exposure as being a greedy lie that would destroy society as we know it.
| 394 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:12:01pm |
re: #376 jaunte
Have you been following Bill Gates' speeches?
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
Thanx for the link, and yes I've seen some of his advocacy on education. He really has a lot of good ideas on that front. And while I'm at it, despite opposing much of the Obama agenda, he has a lot of good ideas for education as well. The internet I think can make education reform a reality. It can be a tremendous resource--like what this guy is doing:
[Link: www.khanacademy.org...]
| 395 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:12:01pm |
hey all,
I keep trying to upload a pic of the Completed Temple of Vesta, but the Pages thingy says, "no file selected for upload".
I feel so LGF illiterate. HELP!
And how are you-all tonite?
| 397 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:12:44pm |
re: #389 SanFranciscoZionist
Which is fine, but often the criticism of the unions seems to come down to 'they're trying to get money and stuff for their members'. That's not considered a bad thing when corporations do it, it's expected.
Thank you for understanding my point. I see people screech "Unions are only out for money!" Well so are corporations. I am not anti corporate at all really. Wish some of them would treat their employees a little better of course but I am not one who refuses to shop at a Wal-Mart or demands "fair trade coffee."
| 398 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:12:58pm |
re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist
The obsession with merit pay is, frankly, irritating to me. We have schools with no computers and enough books for half the class out there, and the solution is to give extra money to the teacher who figures out how to overcome the inadequacy of the school plant?
Which schools are those? That idea still surprises me, with school spending as high as it is where I live.
| 399 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:13:03pm |
re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist
The obsession with merit pay is, frankly, irritating to me. We have schools with no computers and enough books for half the class out there, and the solution is to give extra money to the teacher who figures out how to overcome the inadequacy of the school plant?
If I were in charge, I'd eliminate a layer or two of administration. Mostly in Washington.
| 400 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:13:42pm |
re: #392 Gus 802
More importantly, we now know who the next contestants on DWTS!
| 401 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:14:03pm |
re: #383 prononymous
I really disliked Microsoft's tactics in the past. And of course I hated Bill because of it.
But now, in hindsight, he's a decent guy.
I understand the feeling. I'm a Microsoft unevangelist (disevangelist? anti-evangelist?) :)
| 402 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:14:50pm |
re: #389 SanFranciscoZionist
Which is fine, but often the criticism of the unions seems to come down to 'they're trying to get money and stuff for their members'. That's not considered a bad thing when corporations do it, it's expected.
I think the amount of money both Unions and Corporations give in political campaigns is an issue. The difference being that Unions take directly from workers and the Corporations take it from their budget, and it is not deducted from their employees paychecks.
| 403 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:15:05pm |
OT: Two amazing stats I came across today.
1) First the good news. Women under 30 now make more than their male counterparts in the largest 150 cities in the US. Seems shocking at first to those of us who remember all the "59 cents on the dollar" rhetoric from the 1970s. But, as an educator (I teach in a private school) I've seen firsthand girls outperform boys for the last decade. Higher graduation rate from both HS and college (60% of college grads now are female); and now women are the majority in most professional schools. "It's a man's world?" Getting less so by the day.
2) Now the bad news. The top 5% of US high school students rank 23rd out of 29 industrialized nations in math and science. I had always assumed that our dreadful overall rankings were due to the bottom half dragging our averages down--the dead weight in public schools who get social promotions. But if our top 5% don't measure up, we're really screwed.
| 404 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:15:19pm |
re: #399 ggt
If I were in charge, I'd eliminate a layer or two of administration. Mostly in Washington.
Ditto.
| 405 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:15:31pm |
The idea of getting kids engaged with the internet at an early age is a good one if you ask me. Knowledge of the internet is essential for being a strong college student. And frankly, I wish there were more programs that taught foreign languages to kids at an early age. Nearly every degree program requires some language. My youngest brother's school has a Spanish program. I have to say as someone who struggles with language that a program early on to teach foreign language would be highly beneficial. Heck go to Europe and most young Europeans speak English.
| 406 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:17:09pm |
re: #401 BryanS
I understand the feeling. I'm a Microsoft unevangelist (disevangelist? anti-evangelist?) :)
I still don't like Microsoft much. I have been running in windows more often lately, but all my real work still happens in Linux VMs.
| 407 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:17:20pm |
re: #403 palomino
Don't worry, we can outsource for brains.
| 408 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:17:22pm |
re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist
The obsession with merit pay is, frankly, irritating to me. We have schools with no computers and enough books for half the class out there, and the solution is to give extra money to the teacher who figures out how to overcome the inadequacy of the school plant?
Exactly. The basis of these metrics assumes that all schools and all students are the same. Aren't. Can't be.
| 409 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:17:33pm |
re: #398 Dark_Falcon
Which schools are those? That idea still surprises me, with school spending as high as it is where I live.
Low-income neighborhoods.
| 410 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:18:23pm |
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Who is represented by a union here tonight?
I live in a "Right to Work" state, which of course is Newspeak for "you don't have a 'right' to employment, and we can fire you at any time for no reason at all, and there's nothing in Hell you can do about it."
| 411 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:19:04pm |
re: #407 freetoken
Don't worry, we can outsource for brains.
Yeah, but we can't outsource our own brainlessness.
| 412 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:19:31pm |
re: #409 SanFranciscoZionist
Low-income neighborhoods.
Gee. What was that about separate but equal????
Feh!
| 413 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:19:33pm |
re: #403 palomino
OT: Two amazing stats I came across today.
1) First the good news. Women under 30 now make more than their male counterparts in the largest 150 cities in the US. Seems shocking at first to those of us who remember all the "59 cents on the dollar" rhetoric from the 1970s. But, as an educator (I teach in a private school) I've seen firsthand girls outperform boys for the last decade. Higher graduation rate from both HS and college (60% of college grads now are female); and now women are the majority in most professional schools. "It's a man's world?" Getting less so by the day.
2) Now the bad news. The top 5% of US high school students rank 23rd out of 29 industrialized nations in math and science. I had always assumed that our dreadful overall rankings were due to the bottom half dragging our averages down--the dead weight in public schools who get social promotions. But if our top 5% don't measure up, we're really screwed.
Regarding the math and science scores by how many points are we 23rd? Of couse you know who'll they'll blame for those scores: teachers. American parents by and large see education as a passive activity. Just send the kid to school and he or she will soak up the knowledge required. Then when they get back home it's back to the Super Bowl, Snooki, bling, wide screen TVs, pop-music and clothes. The reason those scores are lower is because we as a society do not value the math and sciences. Instead we value mass consumerism and image.
| 414 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:20:44pm |
re: #410 negativ
I live in a "Right to Work" state, which of course is Newspeak for "you don't have a 'right' to employment, and we can fire you at any time for no reason at all, and there's nothing in Hell you can do about it."
of course in california we have the "at will" employment law, which is usually quoted to you thusly: "you can be fired at any time for any reason, or for no reason"
it sound like satire but it's not
| 415 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:21:02pm |
And get rid of the damn British Imperial units of measurement. You want to increase physics scores start by using the superior system of measurement, the metric system.
| 416 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:21:44pm |
| 417 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:21:59pm |
re: #389 SanFranciscoZionist
Which is fine, but often the criticism of the unions seems to come down to 'they're trying to get money and stuff for their members'. That's not considered a bad thing when corporations do it, it's expected.
I have half-hearted support of unions. I am represented by a union, but I am not a member. Our store is too far from Denver proper to be a union store in this division, but all the employees at my store are represented by the UFCW. Our store follows all the points of the union contract in our region. But we don't pay union dues, and we can't vote on union issues.
I find the union helpful (and probably needed) in a number of areas,, and in other areas, I am totally against some practices.
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
And as normal, shit rolls downhill, and I get the leftovers of hours, schedules and I have to pick up the slack when there are holes to fill in the schedule.
I don't see how it is good for a business to have some of the most productive employees in a position that they can't be scheduled at the most opportune times for the day to day running of the business.
I am in the top half of productive cashiers. I score high on speed, customer service and etc. Yet, some of the most unproductive of the cashiers will get scheduled during the hours that the store should be supplying the customer with the most customer service oriented visit. All because they have seniority.
I don't think that is good for the company, it doesn't support employees who are working to be the best, it doesn't help the customer, it seems to be a negative objective in many cases.
| 419 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:22:14pm |
Mr. Blue Sky - ELO (Eraserhead)
I've a belly hull of quinoa and it's time to dream.
/Namaste, y'all
| 420 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:22:22pm |
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Who is represented by a union here tonight?
If we Moms ever put together a union, you are all in big trouble.
| 421 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:22:58pm |
re: #403 palomino
OT: Two amazing stats I came across today.
1) First the good news. Women under 30 now make more than their male counterparts in the largest 150 cities in the US. Seems shocking at first to those of us who remember all the "59 cents on the dollar" rhetoric from the 1970s. But, as an educator (I teach in a private school) I've seen firsthand girls outperform boys for the last decade. Higher graduation rate from both HS and college (60% of college grads now are female); and now women are the majority in most professional schools. "It's a man's world?" Getting less so by the day.
2) Now the bad news. The top 5% of US high school students rank 23rd out of 29 industrialized nations in math and science. I had always assumed that our dreadful overall rankings were due to the bottom half dragging our averages down--the dead weight in public schools who get social promotions. But if our top 5% don't measure up, we're really screwed.
I would think the goal was approximate parity, but college campuses are becoming female dominated--approaching the 60% mark as you say where campuses start worrying about a tipping point where their lack of diversity of gender makes recruitment difficult. Imagine, affirmative action for men in college admissions! Because of variations in school admissions, some campuses are finding 2-1 ratios female to male in the applicant pool.
| 422 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:23:15pm |
re: #372 engineer dog
one more time and please stop ignoring it: did you or did you not support extending the bush tax cuts for people making $250k/yr and over?would any of those people who so strongly feel that all budgets need to be balanced RIGHT NOW on the backs of high school teacher care to address this little point?
apparantly this question is made out of purest kryptonite
| 423 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:23:22pm |
Ok, is there some FAQ on the Pages thingy. I read the HOW THIS WORKS on the side bar to the right.
I'd like to figure out why my pic won't load and HOW to conduct a search that actually returns something.
I think there is a problem on my end (and not just my brain) cookies? Norton?
HELP ME, somebody.
| 424 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:23:27pm |
re: #413 Gus 802
he reason those scores are lower is because we as a society do not value the math and sciences. Instead we value mass consumerism and image.
This, it's an excellent point. I read somewhere that "The Situation" from Jersey Shore is due to make over 5 million bucks this year. Now, I realize it's that people watch and enjoy Jersey Shore that cause that to happen but it's truly a sad state of affairs when people like that are more heavily compensated then people like teachers, doctors, cops, and others.
| 425 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:24:13pm |
re: #423 ggt
What kind of image file is it, and how big? If it's too big it won't upload.
| 426 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:24:24pm |
re: #420 EmmmieG
If we Moms ever put together a union, you are all in big trouble.
And add in stay at home dads. We'll be there with our laundry baskets as well.
| 427 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:24:25pm |
re: #406 prononymous
I still don't like Microsoft much. I have been running in windows more often lately, but all my real work still happens in Linux VMs.
I run linux at work. My new home computer is windoze. Old one was linux when all I could get was Vista. Blech!
| 428 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:24:45pm |
re: #413 Gus 802
Instead we value mass consumerism and image.
Speaking of which, it looks like Kendra Wilkinson has the right equipment talent to do well on DWTS.
| 429 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:24:58pm |
re: #414 engineer dog
of course in california we have the "at will" employment law, which is usually quoted to you thusly: "you can be fired at any time for any reason, or for no reason"
it sound like satire but it's not
Oddly, despite this, certain employers who tell you all the damn time how you're an 'at will' employee seem to think they are owed two weeks notice.
Sorry dude. It's not in the law, and you weren't nice enough to get the courtesy.
I was once told by a woman at a temp gig I worked that I would get a break 'at our discretion, of course'. I told her that it wasn't at her discretion, it was a matter of state and Federal law.
She seemed miffed.
Luckily, my actual supervisor was very nice.
That was the March of Dimes gig, which was very nice indeed, except that they made me answer the phones, "Good morning, March of Dimes, saving babies together."
| 430 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:25:13pm |
re: #413 Gus 802
Regarding the math and science scores by how many points are we 23rd? Of couse you know who'll they'll blame for those scores: teachers. American parents by and large see education as a passive activity. Just send the kid to school and he or she will soak up the knowledge required. Then when they get back home it's back to the Super Bowl, Snooki, bling, wide screen TVs, pop-music and clothes. The reason those scores are lower is because we as a society do not value the math and sciences. Instead we value mass consumerism and image.
I'll find the link for you. Some teachers do suck, but you're right that blaming it all on teachers is absurd. And the top 5% of students usually are taught by top notch folks, whether public or private, so that's not a result of bad teachers. Some of it comes down to the most basic factors, like more time in class and more days in school. But our culture doesn't prioritize knowledge, as you suggest.
| 431 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:25:21pm |
re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist
re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist
* 438,843 Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
* 14,131 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
* 20,042 Firefighters for One Year OR
* 112,426 Head Start Slots for Children for One Year OR
* 136,757 Households with Renewable Electricity - Solar Photovoltaic for One Year OR
* 364,685 Households with Renewable Electricity-Wind Power for One Year OR
* 117,234 Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
* 164,796 People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
* 16,921 Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year OR
* 85,889 Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
* 141,695 Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550
| 432 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:25:45pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
I have half-hearted support of unions. I am represented by a union, but I am not a member. Our store is too far from Denver proper to be a union store in this division, but all the employees at my store are represented by the UFCW. Our store follows all the points of the union contract in our region. But we don't pay union dues, and we can't vote on union issues.
I find the union helpful (and probably needed) in a number of areas,, and in other areas, I am totally against some practices.
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
And as normal, shit rolls downhill, and I get the leftovers of hours, schedules and I have to pick up the slack when there are holes to fill in the schedule.
I don't see how it is good for a business to have some of the most productive employees in a position that they can't be scheduled at the most opportune times for the day to day running of the business.
I am in the top half of productive cashiers. I score high on speed, customer service and etc. Yet, some of the most unproductive of the cashiers will get scheduled during the hours that the store should be supplying the customer with the most customer service oriented visit. All because they have seniority.
I don't think that is good for the company, it doesn't support employees who are working to be the best, it doesn't help the customer, it seems to be a negative objective in many cases.
All reasonable points--and not issues I would have thought of, in education.
| 433 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:26:10pm |
| 434 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:26:23pm |
re: #423 ggt
Ok, is there some FAQ on the Pages thingy. I read the HOW THIS WORKS on the side bar to the right.
I'd like to figure out why my pic won't load and HOW to conduct a search that actually returns something.
I think there is a problem on my end (and not just my brain) cookies? Norton?
HELP ME, somebody.
I have no idea, but I'm sending you positive energy.
| 435 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:27:50pm |
re: #433 Gus 802
$786.4 million for South Carolina alone and for only FY 2011.
That's an outrage.
* 5.2 million Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
* 165,993 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
* 235,426 Firefighters for One Year OR
* 1.3 million Head Start Slots for Children for One Year OR
* 1.6 million Households with Renewable Electricity - Solar Photovoltaic for One Year OR
* 4.3 million Households with Renewable Electricity-Wind Power for One Year OR
* 1.4 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
* 1.9 million People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
* 198,763 Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year OR
* 1.0 million Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
* 1.7 million Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550
| 436 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:28:07pm |
re: #431 Gus 802
re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist
See, this is what I don't get Gus. We have the money for wars and I am not arguing Afghanistan or Iraq's legitimacy as a conflict, I am arguing this though. If we have enough money and prioritize to send men and women to fight wars then why on earth isn't it a prioritize to education our kids? Perhaps spending won't solve everything but cutting spending on education like many Republicans seem to want will make things worse not better.
| 437 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:28:12pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
I work retail as well. A store needs it's best workers at peak times.
As a customer, I can tell you that nothing pisses-me off more than to have a slow cashier scheduled between 5pm and 6pm. At my store we generally don't take any breaks during the lunch hour, afters school and between 5 and 6. There aren't enough of us to cover the floor during those times.
It doesn't always work that way, but we try.
IMHO, it should be about the needs of the customer, what will keep the store profitable and not about the employee.
I'd like to have a job in the future, so I do what is best for the customer. We aren't the only store they can go to. . . .
| 438 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:29:06pm |
re: #421 BryanS
I would think the goal was approximate parity, but college campuses are becoming female dominated--approaching the 60% mark as you say where campuses start worrying about a tipping point where their lack of diversity of gender makes recruitment difficult. Imagine, affirmative action for men in college admissions! Because of variations in school admissions, some campuses are finding 2-1 ratios female to male in the applicant pool.
It's a stunning combination of barriers breaking down, women achieving more and young men overcome by apathy. Parity would be nice, but we live in an increasingly competitive world. I never thought I'd say this, but we can't admit underqualified men just to make enrollment data appear more equitable.
| 439 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:29:39pm |
re: #436 HappyWarrior
See, this is what I don't get Gus. We have the money for wars and I am not arguing Afghanistan or Iraq's legitimacy as a conflict, I am arguing this though. If we have enough money and prioritize to send men and women to fight wars then why on earth isn't it a prioritize to education our kids? Perhaps spending won't solve everything but cutting spending on education like many Republicans seem to want will make things worse not better.
Exactly. But I've recently decided to bite the bullet. Afghanistan and Iraq have been and will be a complete waster of American resources, lives, and money. We're never going to win in Afghanistan. Never.
| 440 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:29:42pm |
re: #436 HappyWarrior
See, this is what I don't get Gus. We have the money for wars...
Actually no, we didn't, which is one reason why the debt piled up so quickly on GWB's watch.
| 441 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:29:52pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
I have half-hearted support of unions. I am represented by a union, but I am not a member. Our store is too far from Denver proper to be a union store in this division, but all the employees at my store are represented by the UFCW. Our store follows all the points of the union contract in our region. But we don't pay union dues, and we can't vote on union issues.
I find the union helpful (and probably needed) in a number of areas,, and in other areas, I am totally against some practices.
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
And as normal, shit rolls downhill, and I get the leftovers of hours, schedules and I have to pick up the slack when there are holes to fill in the schedule.
I don't see how it is good for a business to have some of the most productive employees in a position that they can't be scheduled at the most opportune times for the day to day running of the business.
I am in the top half of productive cashiers. I score high on speed, customer service and etc. Yet, some of the most unproductive of the cashiers will get scheduled during the hours that the store should be supplying the customer with the most customer service oriented visit. All because they have seniority.
I don't think that is good for the company, it doesn't support employees who are working to be the best, it doesn't help the customer, it seems to be a negative objective in many cases.
Just need to hold on...then you can make $159k like this Madison bus driver:
[Link: host.madison.com...]
| 442 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:30:00pm |
re: #437 ggt
I think my local Kroger is playing a minimal staffing game to guide customers into the self-check lines at peak shopping times, so they can cut staff further and add more self-check lines.
| 443 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:30:04pm |
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Who is represented by a union here tonight?
I'm self employed. But if any of my future employees decided to form a union, I'd encourage it.
But I'm thinking some sort of profit sharing model might be a better incentive.
BBL, I'll try to respond later if anyone has comments on this.
| 444 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:30:12pm |
re: #440 freetoken
Actually no, we didn't, which is one reason why the debt piled up so quickly on GWB's watch.
A debt he hid. H-i-d. Hid.
| 445 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:30:30pm |
re: #425 jaunte
What kind of image file is it, and how big? If it's too big it won't upload.
1.21mb, 2307 x 1933 pixels
thanks
| 446 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:31:36pm |
re: #445 ggt
So, if you can get that down to 200k or below, it should be small enough.
Do you see it when you click the 'browse' button in the Upload Image window?
| 447 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:32:26pm |
re: #442 jaunte
I prefer self checkout.
I just wish more of my fellow Americans were skilled at pushing buttons on screens so the line wouldn't build up.
| 448 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:32:49pm |
re: #441 BryanS
Just need to hold on...then you can make $159k like this Madison bus driver:
[Link: host.madison.com...]
And how many overtime hours were needed to get that check? It's easy to make a shitpile of money if you either have no family or hate your family. Also note that the contract has been changed since this happened. It can't happen again.
| 449 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:33:05pm |
That's what we need to be teaching our kids... not science and math, but how to push (soft) buttons on lcd screens.
| 450 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:33:30pm |
re: #408 austin_blue
Exactly. The basis of these metrics assumes that all schools and all students are the same. Aren't. Can't be.
But unfortunately, the viewing audience doesn't think beyond the peramiters they are fed.
| 451 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:33:31pm |
re: #441 BryanS
Just need to hold on...then you can make $159k like this Madison bus driver:
[Link: host.madison.com...]
Highest paid CEOs, 2008
Name Company Compensation
Stephen Schwarzman Blackstone Group $702,440,573
Lawrence Ellison Oracle Corp. $556,976,600
Ray Irani Occidental Petroleum Corp. $222,639,705
John Hess Hess Corp. $159,566,940
Michael Watford Ultra Petroleum Corp. $116,929,392
Aubrey McClendon Chesapeake Energy Corp. $114,286,867
Bob Simpson XTO Energy Inc. $103,485,972
Mark Papa EOG Resources, Inc. $90,471,784
Eugene Isenberg Nabors Industries Ltd. $79,333,079
Michael Jeffries Abercrombie & Fitch Co. $71,795,74
| 452 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:34:09pm |
re: #442 jaunte
I think my local Kroger is playing a minimal staffing game to guide customers into the self-check lines at peak shopping times, so they can cut staff further and add more self-check lines.
Outsourcing to the computer?
Welcome to our Brave New World.
Jeopardy had an AI as a contestant too!
| 453 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:34:39pm |
re: #437 ggt
I work retail as well. A store needs it's best workers at peak times.
As a customer, I can tell you that nothing pisses-me off more than to have a slow cashier scheduled between 5pm and 6pm. At my store we generally don't take any breaks during the lunch hour, afters school and between 5 and 6. There aren't enough of us to cover the floor during those times.
It doesn't always work that way, but we try.
IMHO, it should be about the needs of the customer, what will keep the store profitable and not about the employee.
I'd like to have a job in the future, so I do what is best for the customer. We aren't the only store they can go to. . . .
I understand what you are saying, but because of the unions seniority rules, the handful of bad cashiers we have will get the prime time schedules and there is nothing management can do about it.
It would seem to me that that sort of procedure would promote apathy in some employees. Since you know you're way down on the seniority tree, you know that no amount of excellence in job performance will be rewarded, at least in regards to more hours, more of a steady schedule, nothing.
If anyone can show me how a seniority system benefits ALL employees and a business, I would like to hear the flip side of the argument?
| 454 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:34:46pm |
re: #451 Gus 802
I challenge any of them to a race through the self-checkout line.
| 455 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:34:52pm |
re: #446 jaunte
So, if you can get that down to 200k or below, it should be small enough.
Do you see it when you click the 'browse' button in the Upload Image window?
Yeah, it's there in gray. How do I get it down to 200K?
| 456 |
austin_blue Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:03pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
I have half-hearted support of unions. I am represented by a union, but I am not a member. Our store is too far from Denver proper to be a union store in this division, but all the employees at my store are represented by the UFCW. Our store follows all the points of the union contract in our region. But we don't pay union dues, and we can't vote on union issues.
I find the union helpful (and probably needed) in a number of areas,, and in other areas, I am totally against some practices.
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
And as normal, shit rolls downhill, and I get the leftovers of hours, schedules and I have to pick up the slack when there are holes to fill in the schedule.
I don't see how it is good for a business to have some of the most productive employees in a position that they can't be scheduled at the most opportune times for the day to day running of the business.
I am in the top half of productive cashiers. I score high on speed, customer service and etc. Yet, some of the most unproductive of the cashiers will get scheduled during the hours that the store should be supplying the customer with the most customer service oriented visit. All because they have seniority.
I don't think that is good for the company, it doesn't support employees who are working to be the best, it doesn't help the customer, it seems to be a negative objective in many cases.
Too bad for you. My wife is a member of the AFM Local 433. If you aren't a member of a union, you will soon find out how you are being fucked in the ass. Sorry, but that's the way it works. That's why Unions were created and prospered. The fact that industry has bought off elected officials to the tune of billions of dollars to crush unions should make you, as a prospective member of the middle class, understand how screwed you are without Union bargaining capacity.
You are so scrrewd.
| 457 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:21pm |
re: #455 ggt
Do you have an image editor program, like Photoshop?
| 458 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:25pm |
re: #442 jaunte
I think my local Kroger is playing a minimal staffing game to guide customers into the self-check lines at peak shopping times, so they can cut staff further and add more self-check lines.
Yeah, why the hell are there 12 checkout lanes in every grocery store, when only 3 are typically in use at any given moment? Only the luxury grocery stores here in LA are anywhere near full cashier capacity.
| 459 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:25pm |
re: #451 Gus 802
Highest paid CEOs, 2008
Name Company Compensation
Stephen Schwarzman Blackstone Group $702,440,573
Lawrence Ellison Oracle Corp. $556,976,600
Ray Irani Occidental Petroleum Corp. $222,639,705
John Hess Hess Corp. $159,566,940
Michael Watford Ultra Petroleum Corp. $116,929,392
Aubrey McClendon Chesapeake Energy Corp. $114,286,867
Bob Simpson XTO Energy Inc. $103,485,972
Mark Papa EOG Resources, Inc. $90,471,784
Eugene Isenberg Nabors Industries Ltd. $79,333,079
Michael Jeffries Abercrombie & Fitch Co. $71,795,74
Bet none of these MF'er's ever work an hour of overtime...
| 460 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:35pm |
re: #440 freetoken
Actually no, we didn't, which is one reason why the debt piled up so quickly on GWB's watch.
Yeah, my mistake. I guess my point is where were the people who claim to be for fiscal responsible spending then? Oh, that's right. They were calling people who opposed the war in Iraq unpatriotic. It's become clear in recent years that we lag behind other countries in math/science education and the answer is not cutting education spending and it sure as hell is not teaching kids biblical creation instead of widely accepted evolutionary theory. You want to teach your kids that God created the earth in six days then rested, that's fine but do it on your own time and not in our own schools.
| 461 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:40pm |
re: #410 negativ
I live in a "Right to Work" state, which of course is Newspeak for "you don't have a 'right' to employment, and we can fire you at any time for no reason at all, and there's nothing in Hell you can do about it."
Ha! Wasn't that the classic misnomer! Right word?
| 462 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:40pm |
re: #451 Gus 802
Highest paid CEOs, 2008
Name Company Compensation
Stephen Schwarzman Blackstone Group $702,440,573
Lawrence Ellison Oracle Corp. $556,976,600
Ray Irani Occidental Petroleum Corp. $222,639,705
John Hess Hess Corp. $159,566,940
Michael Watford Ultra Petroleum Corp. $116,929,392
Aubrey McClendon Chesapeake Energy Corp. $114,286,867
Bob Simpson XTO Energy Inc. $103,485,972
Mark Papa EOG Resources, Inc. $90,471,784
Eugene Isenberg Nabors Industries Ltd. $79,333,079
Michael Jeffries Abercrombie & Fitch Co. $71,795,74
Schwarzman made enough to pay for a town of 4,417 inhabited by bus drivers making 159K a year.
| 463 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:35:46pm |
re: #447 freetoken
I prefer self checkout.
I just wish more of my fellow Americans were skilled at pushing buttons on screens so the line wouldn't build up.
I hate self check-out. If they want me to be my own cashier, they should give me a discount. Like they used to do with gas--remember 5 cents a gallon cheaper if you pumped it yourself.
| 464 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:36:44pm |
I'm back. Sorry about the disappearing act, I had to reload Firefox.
| 465 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:37:23pm |
re: #459 wlewisiii
Bet none of these MF'er's ever work an hour of overtime...
All hale corporate CEOs! Let us pray to our corporate Gods!
In August 2010, Schwarzman compared President Barack Obama's plan to raise carried interest taxes to Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939.
| 466 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:37:35pm |
re: #453 Walter L. Newton
I think seniority should only be used for things like, first pick of vacation schedule, or holiday hours.
| 467 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:38:09pm |
re: #463 ggt
In Japan the supermarkets tend to be a compromise on checking: the checker rings up the total, a second employee re-stacks your goods into a second hand basket as fast as the first unpacks yours, and then you take the repacked hand basket to a shelf to bag your own.
It always went pretty quickly, and those cashiers sure can check!
| 468 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:38:32pm |
re: #454 jaunte
I challenge any of them to a race through the self-checkout line.
Fuck those things. I have no luck with them. First, it tells me to put the item in the bag, then to take it out, then to put it back, then to hold it for the attendant. Make up your goddamn mind, computer bitch.
| 469 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:38:33pm |
re: #438 palomino
It's a stunning combination of barriers breaking down, women achieving more and young men overcome by apathy. Parity would be nice, but we live in an increasingly competitive world. I never thought I'd say this, but we can't admit underqualified men just to make enrollment data appear more equitable.
I agree that preferences for men is a bad policy. I would just like to see the same kind of effort dedicated to male academic achievement as still is in place for women. How many men are encouraged to go into female dominated fields? How many scholarships go to men pursuing degrees in education, or nursing?
| 470 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:38:34pm |
re: #442 jaunte
I think my local Kroger is playing a minimal staffing game to guide customers into the self-check lines at peak shopping times, so they can cut staff further and add more self-check lines.
Not true. I work for Kroger. Kroger is playing minimal staffing game to make more money, period. And union seniority rules guarantees that if a store has long term employees, and they are not the most productive employees, then they will be the employees serving you during prime time.
That's the part of the union rules that doesn't make any sense to me. I can see other reasons for the union, I can see where the union does actually work for the company AND the employee, but certain aspects of the seniority rules seems to me to be counter productive and harmful tot he bottom line and to certain employees.
| 471 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:38:52pm |
| 472 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:39:32pm |
re: #458 palomino
Yeah, why the hell are there 12 checkout lanes in every grocery store, when only 3 are typically in use at any given moment? Only the luxury grocery stores here in LA are anywhere near full cashier capacity.
For Xmas and other holiday shopping--oh and Saturdays. Only time they are all used.
| 473 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:39:34pm |
re: #453 Walter L. Newton
I understand what you are saying, but because of the unions seniority rules, the handful of bad cashiers we have will get the prime time schedules and there is nothing management can do about it.
It would seem to me that that sort of procedure would promote apathy in some employees. Since you know you're way down on the seniority tree, you know that no amount of excellence in job performance will be rewarded, at least in regards to more hours, more of a steady schedule, nothing.
If anyone can show me how a seniority system benefits ALL employees and a business, I would like to hear the flip side of the argument?
The argument is that it prevents favoritism, but in my opinion that risk would be worth the additional flexibility.
| 474 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:39:54pm |
re: #471 ggt
If you can downsize the image to 72 dpi and about 3x5 it should be close.
| 476 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:40:57pm |
re: #448 wlewisiii
And how many overtime hours were needed to get that check? It's easy to make a shitpile of money if you either have no family or hate your family. Also note that the contract has been changed since this happened. It can't happen again.
I know...lot's of overtime was needed. Thankfully the unions had negotiated the very safe practice of this guy driving a bus 80 hours a week when someone driving a truck shipping goods would cause that company to face huge penalties and fines.
As you say, that practice changed, but it took the press to write a story about it.
| 477 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:40:59pm |
re: #456 austin_blue
Too bad for you. My wife is a member of the AFM Local 433. If you aren't a member of a union, you will soon find out how you are being fucked in the ass. Sorry, but that's the way it works. That's why Unions were created and prospered. The fact that industry has bought off elected officials to the tune of billions of dollars to crush unions should make you, as a prospective member of the middle class, understand how screwed you are without Union bargaining capacity.
You are so scrrewd.
I guess you are not paying attention. I am represented by the union, and our store follows ALL of the UFCW contract agreements for our region. The union does bargain for all the employees in our store.
| 478 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:41:09pm |
re: #451 Gus 802
Highest paid CEOs, 2008
Name Company Compensation
Stephen Schwarzman Blackstone Group $702,440,573
Lawrence Ellison Oracle Corp. $556,976,600
Ray Irani Occidental Petroleum Corp. $222,639,705
John Hess Hess Corp. $159,566,940
Michael Watford Ultra Petroleum Corp. $116,929,392
Aubrey McClendon Chesapeake Energy Corp. $114,286,867
Bob Simpson XTO Energy Inc. $103,485,972
Mark Papa EOG Resources, Inc. $90,471,784
Eugene Isenberg Nabors Industries Ltd. $79,333,079
Michael Jeffries Abercrombie & Fitch Co. $71,795,74
i don't get these guys
my fantasy life involves not having to work, living in my own house and having plenty to eat, and spending all my time walking in the sunshine, reading and going to movies, and writing books and playing jazz - maybe need 5 mil tops
i can't for the life of me imagine what you would do with $100 mil a year? buy exotic planets and colonize them?
| 479 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:41:14pm |
re: #465 Gus 802
All hale corporate CEOs! Let us pray to our corporate Gods!
In August 2010, Schwarzman compared President Barack Obama's plan to raise carried interest taxes to Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939.
What a pompous dickhead. If people want to know why some of us give associates like this a hard time, look no further.I am sorry, I have no sympathy at all for a man whose annual salary is nearly a billion dollars and furthermore none for a man who makes that much comparing a tax increase to something that devastated the nation of Poland.
| 480 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:41:27pm |
re: #459 wlewisiii
Bet none of these MF'er's ever work an hour of overtime...
Most high level people ALWAYS work (at least the couple I know). They work when they are on the golf course, they work where ever and when ever the phone rings and have since before they got out of college.
They are workaholics, that is how they got to where they are They have lots of stuff, and go lots of places, but no real life.
I wouldn't want it.
| 481 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:41:50pm |
re: #451 Gus 802
Highest paid CEOs, 2008
Name Company Compensation
Stephen Schwarzman Blackstone Group $702,440,573
Lawrence Ellison Oracle Corp. $556,976,600
Ray Irani Occidental Petroleum Corp. $222,639,705
John Hess Hess Corp. $159,566,940
Michael Watford Ultra Petroleum Corp. $116,929,392
Aubrey McClendon Chesapeake Energy Corp. $114,286,867
Bob Simpson XTO Energy Inc. $103,485,972
Mark Papa EOG Resources, Inc. $90,471,784
Eugene Isenberg Nabors Industries Ltd. $79,333,079
Michael Jeffries Abercrombie & Fitch Co. $71,795,74
You miss the point--that was the highest paid government employee in the entire city.
| 482 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:42:01pm |
No Christine O'Donnell, no Politicians on Next 'Dancing With the Stars'
Former Delaware Senate candidate Christine O'Donnell has turned down an invite to be on "Dancing With the Stars" after teasing fans with the prospect last week.
"I'm honored to have been invited to participate in one of the few uplifting TV shows out there," O'Donnell said in a statement on her website. "The physical challenge made it all the more appealing. Meeting challenges head-on makes us stronger. Yet, for now, I have another challenge before me; to complete a book that tells the story of the 2010 election cycle with the dignity and respect it deserves." [...]
Too bad... I think DWTS would be more fun with her, and even better if they could get Sharpton too.
Alas, we'll have to put up with Sugar Ray battling it out with a Playboy bunny.
| 483 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:42:31pm |
re: #470 Walter L. Newton
Sure, I just think they have a longer term goal of making more money by replacing many of the human employees with more check-out machines.
| 484 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:42:56pm |
Here's a Rasmussen poll folks will find interesting:
Americans Agree Public Schools Are Good Investment But Say Their Quality Has Fallen
Most Americans feel public schools are a good investment for taxpayers but also agree that the quality of public school education has gone down in recent years.
A new Rasmussen Reports national survey finds that 62% of American Adults say public school education is a good investment for taxpayers. Twenty-six percent (26%) disagree, and 11% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
Nearly as many (61%), however, say public school education has become worse over the past 10 years, a view virtually unchanged from May 2008. Only 22% say public schools have improved in the past decade, while another 17% are undecided.
| 485 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:43:20pm |
re: #481 BryanS
You miss the point--that was the highest paid government employee in the entire city.
Here's my point. Raise the taxes on the SOBs by a whopping 3 percent and get the hell out of Afghanistan. I'm not going to be outraged about one bus driver making 159K a year. There's bigger fish to fry out there.
| 486 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:43:24pm |
re: #460 HappyWarrior
Yeah, my mistake. I guess my point is where were the people who claim to be for fiscal responsible spending then? Oh, that's right. They were calling people who opposed the war in Iraq unpatriotic. It's become clear in recent years that we lag behind other countries in math/science education and the answer is not cutting education spending and it sure as hell is not teaching kids biblical creation instead of widely accepted evolutionary theory. You want to teach your kids that God created the earth in six days then rested, that's fine but do it on your own time and not in our own schools.
Now, what i don't get is that I thought the military was what spawned the science and math majors in the first place and the technology that came from it helped the economy.
| 487 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:43:26pm |
re: #469 BryanS
I agree that preferences for men is a bad policy. I would just like to see the same kind of effort dedicated to male academic achievement as still is in place for women. How many men are encouraged to go into female dominated fields? How many scholarships go to men pursuing degrees in education, or nursing?
I get the impression that the disparity is mostly cultural, not the result of a lack of programs in which men can excel. For sociological reasons as yet unknown, girls are just more motivated to achieve at this point in our history. Even engineering schools, which used to be nearly exclusively male, are approaching 50-50. And most other professional schools now have a clear majority of females.
| 488 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:44:18pm |
re: #481 BryanS
You miss the point--that was the highest paid government employee in the entire city.
Find me 4000 bus drivers making 159K a year and then we'll talk.
| 489 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:44:40pm |
re: #383 prononymous
I really disliked Microsoft's tactics in the past. And of course I hated Bill because of it.
But now, in hindsight, he's a decent guy.
Gates has next to nothing to do with Microsoft anymore. MS is now in the hands of Steve Ballmer, who is famously "not a tech guy". His incompetence is a huge part of the reason why Apple and Google have thoroughly crushed Microsoft's attempts to get into the "mobile device" and "cloud" market.
The first problem is that Ballmer thinks everything is a "market", and has no concept of how people actually use gadgets and services.
The second problem is that Steve Ballmer has Abbe Normal's brain.
Evidence:
Corroborative evidence:
| 490 |
Stanghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:45:04pm |
re: #440 freetoken
Actually no, we didn't, which is one reason why the debt piled up so quickly on GWB's watch.
Keep it off the books! No one will notice!
| 491 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:45:13pm |
re: #472 ggt
For Xmas and other holiday shopping--oh and Saturdays. Only time they are all used.
Even then the Vons and Ralphs (Cali names for Safeway and Kroger) never come close to full capacity. I go to the grocery store at peak times and almost daily cuz I love to cook. And there are never more than half the lanes in action.
| 492 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:46:18pm |
re: #485 Gus 802
Here's my point. Raise the taxes on the SOBs by a whopping 3 percent and get the hell out of Afghanistan. I'm not going to be outraged about one bus driver making 159K a year. There's bigger fish to fry out there.
You think 3% fixes the hole we're in? And when you say 3%, 3% of what? Income, capital gains, dividends?
You do realize most really wealthy people don't actually pay income taxes, right?
| 493 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:46:36pm |
re: #481 BryanS
You miss the point--that was the highest paid government employee in the entire city.
Well, it sounds as if he worked a lot more hours than the mayor or anyone else, so...
/kinda
| 494 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:46:57pm |
re: #491 palomino
My local Vons had all 10 checkers open for pre-Christmas. It's the only time of year, though. I was there today and only 2 were open, plus the self checkout (which I use 99% of the time.)
| 495 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:47:21pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
I've been on my job for over 20 years, I'm still the FNG. I'm first to go if there are cutbacks.
| 496 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:49:14pm |
| 497 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:49:24pm |
re: #491 palomino
Even then the Vons and Ralphs (Cali names for Safeway and Kroger) never come close to full capacity. I go to the grocery store at peak times and almost daily cuz I love to cook. And there are never more than half the lanes in action.
We just had a system installed called "QueVision" which actually tries to measure the amount of people circulating through the store and predict how many lanes you need open currently and how many lanes you will need opened (or closed) in the next 30 minutes. So now, if Que tell the managers that there should only be 2 lanes open, and you have 3 cashiers on duty, one cashier should shut down and go do something else, like empty garbage or clean the toilets.
These retail stores are using more and more software modeling systems to predict work flow and production, yet, as a former programmer myself, I can see the numerous holes in these sorts of systems. In the end, it's the customer who is going to be screwed. In the long run, the company makes more money. Business as usual.
| 498 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:49:37pm |
re: #492 BryanS
You think 3% fixes the hole we're in? And when you say 3%, 3% of what? Income, capital gains, dividends?
You do realize most really wealthy people don't actually pay income taxes, right?
I'm not writing legislature right now. You understand my drift.
And in the time this elapsed we just payed for two bus drivers making 159K a year.
Heck, now that I think about it. All bus drivers should make 159K a year. And teachers too. No more insane salaries for the CEO snakes.
I say this with my tongue somewhat firmly in cheek.
| 499 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:49:46pm |
re: #492 BryanS
You think 3% fixes the hole we're in? And when you say 3%, 3% of what? Income, capital gains, dividends?
You do realize most really wealthy people don't actually pay income taxes, right?
That sucks. We should fix that, no? How do we fix that?
| 500 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:50:06pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
i have to say, Walter, i've been thinking for a while that supermarkets in general must be doing something very right since they seem to attract and keep very high quality people
i wish i had half the professionalism that they show in dealing with annoying customers during very high stress periods at work
| 501 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:50:34pm |
But you need to pay them these high compensation packages in order to attract the best and the brightest.
//
| 502 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:51:07pm |
| 503 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:51:18pm |
re: #487 palomino
I get the impression that the disparity is mostly cultural, not the result of a lack of programs in which men can excel. For sociological reasons as yet unknown, girls are just more motivated to achieve at this point in our history. Even engineering schools, which used to be nearly exclusively male, are approaching 50-50. And most other professional schools now have a clear majority of females.
A lot of effort has been made to change delivery of information to make it more gender neutral. Boys and girls I think do learn differently--yes there is overlap and no one method works for all.
| 504 |
Kragar Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:51:20pm |
So my kids apparently found the box I had my old USMC stuff in. I went to tuck them in and one is reading Military Operations in Urban Terrain and the other is reading Infantry Anti-armor Operations.
| 505 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:51:38pm |
re: #499 palomino
That sucks. We should fix that, no? How do we fix that?
By going after the teachers union.
//
| 506 |
Kragar Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:52:07pm |
re: #499 palomino
That sucks. We should fix that, no? How do we fix that?
The Romans had an method for taking care of that.
| 508 |
blueraven Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:53:06pm |
re: #398 Dark_Falcon
Which schools are those? That idea still surprises me, with school spending as high as it is where I live.
The great right to work state of TX, has a budget shortfall of somewhere between 13 and 20 billion dollars. Depending on who you listen to. We have one of the lowest education scores and some of the poorest school districts in the nation. Guess where the cuts are coming from to balance the budget?
| 509 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:53:28pm |
re: #476 BryanS
I know...lot's of overtime was needed. Thankfully the unions had negotiated the very safe practice of this guy driving a bus 80 hours a week when someone driving a truck shipping goods would cause that company to face huge penalties and fines.
As you say, that practice changed, but it took the press to write a story about it.
Ah, but I happen to have a class A license here in Wisconsin - did the city actually violate DOT rules? Given how the Feds operate I expect not. That wont stop right wing lies, but the reality is that driver had a specific maximum he could drive legally in a 7 day period. Contract or not. I'd bet that the driver in question didn't even come close.
| 510 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:54:27pm |
See. Everything's groovy. We're managing to argue each other without downdinging each other to death.
//
| 511 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:54:31pm |
re: #497 Walter L. Newton
We just had a system installed called "QueVision" which actually tries to measure the amount of people circulating through the store and predict how many lanes you need open currently and how many lanes you will need opened (or closed) in the next 30 minutes. So now, if Que tell the managers that there should only be 2 lanes open, and you have 3 cashiers on duty, one cashier should shut down and go do something else, like empty garbage or clean the toilets.
These retail stores are using more and more software modeling systems to predict work flow and production, yet, as a former programmer myself, I can see the numerous holes in these sorts of systems. In the end, it's the customer who is going to be screwed. In the long run, the company makes more money. Business as usual.
I would imagine somebody has manual input on acceptable queue lengths. In traffic management they use simulation software for calculating traffic progression and levels of service. It's sometimes to mechanical. I think Chaos Theory needs to be added to the equations.
| 512 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:54:50pm |
re: #500 engineer dog
i have to say, Walter, i've been thinking for a while that supermarkets in general must be doing something very right since they seem to attract and keep very high quality people
i wish i had half the professionalism that they show in dealing with annoying customers during very high stress periods at work
You want to know what "right" is happening? These retail stores are being staff by a lot of professionals, under careered professionals who are out of work in their career because of the lousy job market. So, these are people who are use to being professional, and they will continue to be very professional even though they are working in a blue collar public service job.
I'm in the same position. I come from a white collar professional high paying profession. Even though I'm now a cashier, I still CARE about my job, and about my productivity, and I have pride in doing a good job.
| 513 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:55:46pm |
re: #497 Walter L. Newton
I no longer shop at the Kroeger owned stores here because they are crap. Dirty stores, and employees that seem downright hostile at times.
Sorry, but I don't think highly of your employer's concept of a grocery store.
| 515 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:56:58pm |
re: #511 mracb
I would imagine somebody has manual input on acceptable queue lengths. In traffic management they use simulation software for calculating traffic progression and levels of service. It's sometimes to mechanical. I think Chaos Theory needs to be added to the equations.
Doesn't matter what they try to do, everyone in the store will line-up at the same time, clogging the one or two lines that are open to accomodate them. There could be 5 people in the store and they will all line-up at once, in the same line, and 3 of them will be coupon shoppers.
never fails.
| 516 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:57:48pm |
re: #508 blueraven
The great right to work state of TX, has a budget shortfall of somewhere between 13 and 20 billion dollars. Depending on who you listen to. We have one of the lowest education scores and some of the poorest school districts in the nation. Guess where the cuts are coming from to balance the budget?
I won't listen to you insult the good work of Gov. Goodhair. He's only been in office 11 years now; give him some time, and he'll straighten all this out.
| 517 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:57:52pm |
re: #511 mracb
I would imagine somebody has manual input on acceptable queue lengths. In traffic management they use simulation software for calculating traffic progression and levels of service. It's sometimes to mechanical. I think Chaos Theory needs to be added to the equations.
Well of course they do. But the managers will attempt to "prove" the value of the system, by trying to let the system make as many of the decisions as they can get away with, otherwise corporate will complain that they are not making good use of the system.
Corporate gets sold on these systems by third party companies, someone sells upper management on these things, and then lower management will have to make sure that the system doesn't "fail." It can be self defeating at times.
| 518 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:58:07pm |
re: #498 Gus 802
I'm not writing legislature right now. You understand my drift.
And in the time this elapsed we just payed for two bus drivers making 159K a year.
Heck, now that I think about it. All bus drivers should make 159K a year. And teachers too. No more insane salaries for the CEO snakes.
I say this with my tongue somewhat firmly in cheek.
If it were so easy to be a CEO of a major company, why can't anybody just do it? I mean, for what they get paid you'd think there's thousands of applications for each opening. Actually, there probably is! Is it fair that some get paid millions to throw a ball around a field for entertainment? I'm just trying to ascertain what you feel is unfair--is it just the compensation or the work they do for that compensation?
| 519 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:58:45pm |
re: #512 Walter L. Newton
You want to know what "right" is happening? These retail stores are being staff by a lot of professionals, under careered professionals who are out of work in their career because of the lousy job market. So, these are people who are use to being professional, and they will continue to be very professional even though they are working in a blue collar public service job.
I'm in the same position. I come from a white collar professional high paying profession. Even though I'm now a cashier, I still CARE about my job, and about my productivity, and I have pride in doing a good job.
Walter, I have a feeling you are person who can think on their feet. Do you know how many "professionals" can't freaking open a box with a box cutter? Or handle an irate customer?
I've worked in customer service and sales my entire life. I'm amazed at how some "professionals" are NOT qualified to work in a retail store as a "clerk".
| 520 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 9:59:33pm |
re: #513 freetoken
I no longer shop at the Kroeger owned stores here because they are crap. Dirty stores, and employees that seem downright hostile at times.
Sorry, but I don't think highly of your employer's concept of a grocery store.
I agree. The quality of the stores and service vary from region to region. You would not recognize our store (King Soopers) as a Kroger store is it weren't for the Kroger brands on the shelf. I could show you major differences between our store up here in the mountains with stores in Denver, just 35 miles away.
| 521 |
blueraven Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:00:44pm |
re: #516 palomino
I won't listen to you insult the good work of Gov. Goodhair. He's only been in office 11 years now; give him some time, and he'll straighten all this out.
You have to admit he did a fine sales job to the rest of the country, making TX seem like we were solvent, due to his polices, when we were actually way in the hole.
| 522 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:00:53pm |
re: #518 BryanS
If it were so easy to be a CEO of a major company, why can't anybody just do it? I mean, for what they get paid you'd think there's thousands of applications for each opening. Actually, there probably is! Is it fair that some get paid millions to throw a ball around a field for entertainment? I'm just trying to ascertain what you feel is unfair--is it just the compensation or the work they do for that compensation?
Exactly, if everyone could do it, everyone would and the position would be devalued.
It takes a certain kind of brain and desire.
Both of which I don't have.
I promise you most CEO's couldn't match their socks if they had to.
| 523 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:00:59pm |
re: #518 BryanS
If it were so easy to be a CEO of a major company, why can't anybody just do it? I mean, for what they get paid you'd think there's thousands of applications for each opening. Actually, there probably is! Is it fair that some get paid millions to throw a ball around a field for entertainment? I'm just trying to ascertain what you feel is unfair--is it just the compensation or the work they do for that compensation?
I can't answer for him, but it seems a little ass-backwards to ask for concessions from the middle class while giving more tax breaks to people who make $159 million a year.
| 524 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:02:12pm |
re: #521 blueraven
You have to admit he did a fine sales job to the rest of the country, making TX seem like we were solvent, due to his polices, when we were actually way in the hole.
If only he'd been on Stewart a week later, after the budget numbers came out. Stewart already made him look like a reactionary, but with the deficit data he would have ripped him a new one.
| 525 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:02:27pm |
re: #518 BryanS
If it were so easy to be a CEO of a major company, why can't anybody just do it? I mean, for what they get paid you'd think there's thousands of applications for each opening. Actually, there probably is! Is it fair that some get paid millions to throw a ball around a field for entertainment? I'm just trying to ascertain what you feel is unfair--is it just the compensation or the work they do for that compensation?
OK My main point is that we can have both. We can have CEOs making billions. And we can also have bus drivers that will occasionally make 159K. I think the latter is only a true reflection of our wealth and not so much the unions which of course help. But there's room for both. We can have more wealth for EVERYONE but only if we try harder and watch how we spend public money and generate revenue. The problem isn't the CEO nor the bus driver. It's in how we distribute and allocate wealth and generate tax revenue. The CEO gets his massive tax break and creates wealth, earnings, and jobs and the bus driver gets his salary from a healthy bus system that generate revenue for the city and helps cut down on pollution.
| 526 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:02:34pm |
re: #523 palomino
I can't answer for him, but it seems a little ass-backwards to ask for concessions from the middle class while giving more tax breaks to people who make $159 million a year.
I think that's his point.
| 527 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:02:45pm |
re: #499 palomino
That sucks. We should fix that, no? How do we fix that?
Not an easy one to fix. Those with wealth can easily afford to pay themselves $1 salary--they make money either through dividends from their corporation or on capital gains.
Tax dividends too much, and guess what, corporations stop paying dividends, retaining the wealth in their company/assets. Tax capital gains too much, and guess what, business stop selling companies/assets. The wealthy person just sits on their pile of wealth and waits for a Republican in office :)
| 528 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:03:02pm |
re: #519 ggt
Walter, I have a feeling you are person who can think on their feet. Do you know how many "professionals" can't freaking open a box with a box cutter? Or handle an irate customer?
I've worked in customer service and sales my entire life. I'm amazed at how some "professionals" are NOT qualified to work in a retail store as a "clerk".
I really have to qualify by stating that my experiences and opinions are based on my one store. I haven't been doing this all that long. We are a "different" sort of Kroger store, in the mountains, rural, different culture, including the culture of the employees. And we have a manager who has been in the retail business 35 years, mainly in rural markets.
So, my comments are in regards to what I see and perceive in my store. It may not have any basis in reality in the rest of our division. Or retail in general.
| 529 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:06:06pm |
re: #523 palomino
I can't answer for him, but it seems a little ass-backwards to ask for concessions from the middle class while giving more tax breaks to people who make $159 million a year.
Can we figure out how much this person actually takes home? What percent goes to taxes? Federal, state etc. This person has a different expense level as well. He/she can't be seen driving a chevy. Country Club memberships are a must . . .. I'm not joking. Work get's done at the Club, on the golf course etc. Benefits dinners at 20K a plate, the wife's dress, hair and jewels. and on and one.
Dinner's out, tips, they all add-up. As does paying cash for your kid's Ivy League education.
How many people have jobs because this CEO is living the life he/she is?
I'm not defending outrageous salaries, I'm trying to put things in perspective.
It's a lifestyle that comes with the job, it's not always choice.
I just wish the pompous attitude didn't come with it as well.
| 530 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:06:41pm |
re: #528 Walter L. Newton
And speaking of retail, I'm off to work. The Mon-Fri overnight cashier is taking a vacation day tonight, so as low man on the seniority totem pole, I get an extra overnight this week, besides my regular two weekend overnights.
I have 6 self scans, a regular check stand, the whole front end and stocking the cereal/coffee aisle to take care of until 8:30 am.
Night all.
| 531 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:07:00pm |
re: #527 BryanS
Not an easy one to fix. Those with wealth can easily afford to pay themselves $1 salary--they make money either through dividends from their corporation or on capital gains.
Tax dividends too much, and guess what, corporations stop paying dividends, retaining the wealth in their company/assets. Tax capital gains too much, and guess what, business stop selling companies/assets. The wealthy person just sits on their pile of wealth and waits for a Republican in office :)
Didn't tax revenues go up in the 90's after the Clinton tax increases, which were one of the factors leading to our only balanced budgets in over 30 years? Or was the increase all the result of the tech boom? Answers to those questions probably depend largely on party affiliation.
| 532 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:07:03pm |
re: #525 Gus 802
OK My main point is that we can have both. We can have CEOs making billions. And we can also have bus drivers that will occasionally make 159K. I think the latter is only a true reflection of our wealth and not so much the unions which of course help. But there's room for both. We can have more wealth for EVERYONE but only if we try harder and watch how we spend public money and generate revenue. The problem isn't the CEO nor the bus driver. It's in how we distribute and allocate wealth and generate tax revenue. The CEO gets his massive tax break and creates wealth, earnings, and jobs and the bus driver gets his salary from a healthy bus system that generate revenue for the city and helps cut down on pollution.
Damn, you said it so much better than I tried to.
| 533 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:09:06pm |
re: #529 ggt
Can we figure out how much this person actually takes home? What percent goes to taxes? Federal, state etc. This person has a different expense level as well. He/she can't be seen driving a chevy. Country Club memberships are a must . . .. I'm not joking. Work get's done at the Club, on the golf course etc. Benefits dinners at 20K a plate, the wife's dress, hair and jewels. and on and one.
Dinner's out, tips, they all add-up. As does paying cash for your kid's Ivy League education.
How many people have jobs because this CEO is living the life he/she is?
I'm not defending outrageous salaries, I'm trying to put things in perspective.
It's a lifestyle that comes with the job, it's not always choice.
I just wish the pompous attitude didn't come with it as well.
That's all true, but would the CEO's life change one iota if his tax rate jumped all the way from 36 to 39%?
| 534 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:10:24pm |
Here you go. Officer pay. A Major with 6 years makes $66132 a year. Sure he gets pretty good benies but do you think that's enough? A Major can be a C-17 commander or a squadron commander. That doesn't seem like that much. And that's before taxes. He or she brings home what? 40 grand a year? For working like an animal?
| 535 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:11:40pm |
| 536 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:11:50pm |
re: #509 wlewisiii
Ah, but I happen to have a class A license here in Wisconsin - did the city actually violate DOT rules? Given how the Feds operate I expect not. That wont stop right wing lies, but the reality is that driver had a specific maximum he could drive legally in a 7 day period. Contract or not. I'd bet that the driver in question didn't even come close.
It is a good question--that pay works out to $3057 per week. If they followed the 60hrs/7 day limit, that's $50/hr average pay.
| 537 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:12:19pm |
re: #533 palomino
That's all true, but would the CEO's life change one iota if his tax rate jumped all the way from 36 to 39%?
Many would find a way to make sure it got repealed next term. Not because they needed the cash. It think it becomes "a matter of principle". These people have so many people trying to get at their money many become like misers.
I'm much happier in my middle-class life. I wouldn't want the problems and responsibilities that come with lots of money. It plays with the mind in bad, bad ways.
| 538 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:13:30pm |
re: #536 BryanS
It is a good question--that pay works out to $3057 per week. If they followed the 60hrs/7 day limit, that's $50/hr average pay.
What's wrong with 50 bucks an hour? I charge 45 an hour. And that's lower then I was billed out as when I worked for firms. OK, maybe you didn't say there was anything wrong with that.
| 539 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:13:46pm |
re: #528 Walter L. Newton
I really have to qualify by stating that my experiences and opinions are based on my one store. I haven't been doing this all that long. We are a "different" sort of Kroger store, in the mountains, rural, different culture, including the culture of the employees. And we have a manager who has been in the retail business 35 years, mainly in rural markets.
So, my comments are in regards to what I see and perceive in my store. It may not have any basis in reality in the rest of our division. Or retail in general.
Please remember that Walter. Your situation is ... uhm... not typical. If it were even close, I'd be ecstatic to stay in retail. But it's not really close. Retail is hell on earth at best. At Best.
Seriously.
I was an assistant manager once and got fired for not over selling a bit of software to a priest. He had no budget and no need for much, but I was expected to push a copy of Pagemaker on him.
Karma... Heh.
Waldensoftware has been gone for a very long time... ;)
| 540 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:13:54pm |
re: #534 Gus 802
Here you go. Officer pay. A Major with 6 years makes $66132 a year. Sure he gets pretty good benies but do you think that's enough? A Major can be a C-17 commander or a squadron commander. That doesn't seem like that much. And that's before taxes. He or she brings home what? 40 grand a year? For working like an animal?
Absolutely Not. They don't earn enough, get taken care-of well enough and aren't appreciated enough.
The only ones that I think get any compensation are they ones that can get out and earn big in a corporation somewhere based on their science or tech knowledge.
| 541 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:14:27pm |
re: #535 SanFranciscoZionist
Looks great!
Thanks. It's taking all I have not to "fix" somethings. It's done, it's not my work . . . .
| 542 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:14:40pm |
Welder will charge 100 bucks an hour. Engineers, architects, principles will charge over 90. Sometimes up around the 150 range. Lawyers will charge 400 an hour.
| 543 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:14:47pm |
re: #537 ggt
Many would find a way to make sure it got repealed next term. Not because they needed the cash. It think it becomes "a matter of principle". These people have so many people trying to get at their money many become like misers.
I'm much happier in my middle-class life. I wouldn't want the problems and responsibilities that come with lots of money. It plays with the mind in bad, bad ways.
Sure, it insulates some people from most of the reality around them.
Still, higher taxes are part of the deficit reduction solution according to most non-tea party economists. There's only so much we can cut unless we want to turn into Brazil.
| 544 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:15:17pm |
re: #540 ggt
Absolutely Not. They don't earn enough, get taken care-of well enough and aren't appreciated enough.
The only ones that I think get any compensation are they ones that can get out and earn big in a corporation somewhere based on their science or tech knowledge.
I'm thinking it should be tax free. OK, they can pay for FICA/SS.
| 545 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:15:34pm |
re: #523 palomino
I can't answer for him, but it seems a little ass-backwards to ask for concessions from the middle class while giving more tax breaks to people who make $159 million a year.
Those tax breaks on income tax may not have applied to all or even most of the income for someone making $159 million a year. I doubt all their income was in the form of salaries.
| 546 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:15:34pm |
re: #538 Gus 802
What's wrong with 50 bucks an hour? I charge 45 an hour. And that's lower then I was billed out as when I worked for firms. OK, maybe you didn't say there was anything wrong with that.
Depending on what part of the country you are in, $50/hour is barely enough.
| 547 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:15:45pm |
re: #541 ggt
Thanks. It's taking all I have not to "fix" somethings. It's done, it's not my work . . .
I love the little votive light in the middle.
| 548 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:16:27pm |
re: #539 wlewisiii
Please remember that Walter. Your situation is ... uhm... not typical. If it were even close, I'd be ecstatic to stay in retail. But it's not really close. Retail is hell on earth at best. At Best.
Seriously.
I was an assistant manager once and got fired for not over selling a bit of software to a priest. He had no budget and no need for much, but I was expected to push a copy of Pagemaker on him.
Karma... Heh.
Waldensoftware has been gone for a very long time... ;)
That's why I like commission sales in retail. You can make those choices.
| 549 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:16:58pm |
re: #546 ggt
Depending on what part of the country you are in, $50/hour is barely enough.
You bet. Soon I'll have to get health insurance. I probably should even have liability insurance. It all adds up. Right now though I'll take a steady 45 an hour though. I miss those days.
| 550 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:17:10pm |
re: #542 Gus 802
Welder will charge 100 bucks an hour. Engineers, architects, principles will charge over 90. Sometimes up around the 150 range. Lawyers will charge 400 an hour.
And that is what they make gross, not what they net in their paychecks.
| 551 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:17:58pm |
re: #545 BryanS
Those tax breaks on income tax may not have applied to all or even most of the income for someone making $159 million a year. I doubt all their income was in the form of salaries.
Even so it seems a bit bizarre to ask for "sacrifice" from the lower and middle classes but not from the wealthy.
| 552 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:18:06pm |
re: #525 Gus 802
The CEO gets his massive tax break and creates wealth, earnings, and jobs
on the other hand, there are also companies that "create wealth" where all the profits are ploughed back into the company, like kaiser, and even some successful companies that have a even more radical policy of paying everybody about the same
so having a massively compensated senior executive or large profits is not absolutely necessary to "create wealth"
| 553 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:18:16pm |
re: #550 ggt
And that is what they make gross, not what they net in their paychecks.
Yeah. Or the great mystery of clients that don't pay. Engineers always get suck with non-paying clients as do architects. I imagine lawyer do too.
| 554 |
palomino Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:18:49pm |
re: #552 engineer dog
on the other hand, there are also companies that "create wealth" where all the profits are ploughed back into the company, like kaiser, and even some successful companies that have a even more radical policy of paying everybody about the same
so having a massively compensated senior executive or large profits is not absolutely necessary to "create wealth"
Ben and Jerry's?
| 555 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:18:54pm |
re: #547 SanFranciscoZionist
I love the little votive light in the middle.
I wanted sterno --more like an eternal flame, but school won't let any kind of real fire. We had to buy the battery votives. I was hoping the glass would amplify it a bit.
| 556 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:19:33pm |
re: #553 Gus 802
Yeah. Or the great mystery of clients that don't pay. Engineers always get suck with non-paying clients as do architects. I imagine lawyer do too.
Stuck not suck. Yeesh.
| 557 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:20:40pm |
re: #554 palomino
Ben and Jerry's?
i don't remember the name of the company i saw the item on on teevee - everybody in that company got paid the same. they manufactured something
these are pretty rare, i think...
| 558 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:21:03pm |
re: #551 palomino
Even so it seems a bit bizarre to ask for "sacrifice" from the lower and middle classes but not from the wealthy.
I agree. I can't afford any more taxes without having to become part of the system myself. We've worked too hard to need help.
I'd like to see the corruption and graft cut down a bit. I sincerely think that is where it goes.
Remember government agencies are non-profit. They don't have to account to the IRS every year. Who really pays attention?
| 559 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:21:35pm |
Listen, I could understand being upset if they were asked to go from paying 36% to say 50% but to 39% isn't that big of a deal. I just think it's silly as has been pointed out that they seem to expect the lower and middle classes to want to sacrifice but flip if they're asked to the same. That's my problem and the mindset by the one CEO quoted who compared the captial gain sales tax increase to the invasion of Poland. When there are people out there struggling to make ends meet and he makes a comparison like that, I have little respect for that. It shows a lot of contempt for the people who made him in large part the wealthy man he is today. Someone eaid it earlier but it is in large part the consumers that help make these guys so rich.
| 560 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:22:05pm |
re: #552 engineer dog
on the other hand, there are also companies that "create wealth" where all the profits are ploughed back into the company, like kaiser, and even some successful companies that have a even more radical policy of paying everybody about the same
so having a massively compensated senior executive or large profits is not absolutely necessary to "create wealth"
True. I did rush through that. In theory though someone making 100 million a year will spend it though. In theory if it goes into stocks, bonds, etc., it should create investment capital which can then be used by other for creating wealth. IOW, big CEO sticks millions in bank and bank lends out millions to carpenters, plumbers, real estate speculators, etc. In theory but we're seeing less of that today.
| 561 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:22:52pm |
re: #553 Gus 802
Yeah. Or the great mystery of clients that don't pay. Engineers always get suck with non-paying clients as do architects. I imagine lawyer do too.
Lawyers--rarely. They are too scary. They can sue you, do all kinds of things to you and they don't have to pay a lawyer to do it.
Lawyers are the ones that don't pay. They can threaten a tradesman and that is usually enough. True, I kid you not. There is very little you can do to may a laywer pay you--unless you want to spend big bucks. Joe the Plumber usually can't do that.
| 562 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:23:39pm |
re: #542 Gus 802
Welder will charge 100 bucks an hour. Engineers, architects, principles will charge over 90. Sometimes up around the 150 range. Lawyers will charge 400 an hour.
the law firm gets the $400/hr, not the lawyer, unless they've 'made partner'
my father was still working as a lawyer in his 70s - not unusual - and he told me that he was beginning to think that the younger lawyers needed a union
| 563 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:24:32pm |
re: #561 ggt
Lawyers--rarely. They are too scary. They can sue you, do all kinds of things to you and they don't have to pay a lawyer to do it.
Lawyers are the ones that don't pay. They can threaten a tradesman and that is usually enough. True, I kid you not. There is very little you can do to may a laywer pay you--unless you want to spend big bucks. Joe the Plumber usually can't do that.
I had a client dragging his feet on about 1700 once. So, it was through this big law firm in downtown Denver. I sent out two registered letters and got payed in 4 days. I used big words. ;)
| 564 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:24:46pm |
re: #525 Gus 802
OK My main point is that we can have both. We can have CEOs making billions. And we can also have bus drivers that will occasionally make 159K. I think the latter is only a true reflection of our wealth and not so much the unions which of course help. But there's room for both. We can have more wealth for EVERYONE but only if we try harder and watch how we spend public money and generate revenue. The problem isn't the CEO nor the bus driver. It's in how we distribute and allocate wealth and generate tax revenue. The CEO gets his massive tax break and creates wealth, earnings, and jobs and the bus driver gets his salary from a healthy bus system that generate revenue for the city and helps cut down on pollution.
It's only a massive tax break if they are already paying massive amounts of taxes. Yes, income is not distributed evenly, and disparity has grown between the top and low rungs of the economic ladder. For some neutral stats we can both agree on..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
So the top 20% pay 65% of all taxes, top 1% pay 22.7% of all taxes. The rate probably does need to be higher. I wouldn't mind too much if the higher tax brackets went up some.
The suggestion however that Bushes tax cuts made the tax burden less progressive is wrong--he lowered taxes on the lower brackets more than the upper brackets as a percentage of their tax burden (as opposed to the absolute tax rate--i.e. lower 10% what rich folks pay cuts tax burden by a third, but lower 10% the rate low income people pay reduces tax burden to zero).
| 565 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:24:56pm |
re: #559 HappyWarrior
Listen, I could understand being upset if they were asked to go from paying 36% to say 50% but to 39% isn't that big of a deal. I just think it's silly as has been pointed out that they seem to expect the lower and middle classes to want to sacrifice but flip if they're asked to the same. That's my problem and the mindset by the one CEO quoted who compared the captial gain sales tax increase to the invasion of Poland. When there are people out there struggling to make ends meet and he makes a comparison like that, I have little respect for that. It shows a lot of contempt for the people who made him in large part the wealthy man he is today. Someone eaid it earlier but it is in large part the consumers that help make these guys so rich.
I think the capital gains issue is with seniors. If they could make it clear that the average senior isn't going to be penalized, then yes, the capital gains tax would make a lot of sense.
Many seniors retired thinking they could live off the interest they were earning on investments--etc. They counted on it. The market turned and they got stuck. They won't go for ANY captial gains tax just when the market might be turning in their favor again.
| 566 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:25:47pm |
re: #560 Gus 802
True. I did rush through that. In theory though someone making 100 million a year will spend it though. In theory if it goes into stocks, bonds, etc., it should create investment capital which can then be used by other for creating wealth. IOW, big CEO sticks millions in bank and bank lends out millions to carpenters, plumbers, real estate speculators, etc. In theory but we're seeing less of that today.
It's so emotional. There is money to lend, but it isn't getting lent. (or is it lended?)
| 567 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:26:10pm |
re: #531 palomino
Didn't tax revenues go up in the 90's after the Clinton tax increases, which were one of the factors leading to our only balanced budgets in over 30 years? Or was the increase all the result of the tech boom? Answers to those questions probably depend largely on party affiliation.
It was in large part due to the boom. In hind site, the tax rate (and government surplus) during those years should have been much bigger.
| 568 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:26:43pm |
Gotta splat. See you all in the morning.
| 569 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:26:50pm |
re: #562 engineer dog
the law firm gets the $400/hr, not the lawyer, unless they've 'made partner'
my father was still working as a lawyer in his 70s - not unusual - and he told me that he was beginning to think that the younger lawyers needed a union
on the other hand i guess there are still a lot of lawyers who can manage private practice and keep it for themselves
| 570 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:26:56pm |
re: #563 Gus 802
I had a client dragging his feet on about 1700 once. So, it was through this big law firm in downtown Denver. I sent out two registered letters and got payed in 4 days. I used big words. ;)
I should say SOME lawyers. Most of the ones I know are good people. But there are some . . . .
| 571 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:28:13pm |
re: #538 Gus 802
What's wrong with 50 bucks an hour? I charge 45 an hour. And that's lower then I was billed out as when I worked for firms. OK, maybe you didn't say there was anything wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with it--but that is a much higher pay rate than just about any job, and about 3-4 times what the typical college grad makes in public or private sector. That's why it was a news story in Madison.
| 572 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:28:45pm |
| 573 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:28:50pm |
re: #564 BryanS
It's only a massive tax break if they are already paying massive amounts of taxes. Yes, income is not distributed evenly, and disparity has grown between the top and low rungs of the economic ladder. For some neutral stats we can both agree on..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
So the top 20% pay 65% of all taxes, top 1% pay 22.7% of all taxes. The rate probably does need to be higher. I wouldn't mind too much if the higher tax brackets went up some.
The suggestion however that Bushes tax cuts made the tax burden less progressive is wrong--he lowered taxes on the lower brackets more than the upper brackets as a percentage of their tax burden (as opposed to the absolute tax rate--i.e. lower 10% what rich folks pay cuts tax burden by a third, but lower 10% the rate low income people pay reduces tax burden to zero).
I wouldn't have a problem with the lower 10% paying nothing but FICA and medicare. Anyone household making lower than $20K in my part of the world is dirt poor.
| 574 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:29:31pm |
re: #562 engineer dog
the law firm gets the $400/hr, not the lawyer, unless they've 'made partner'
my father was still working as a lawyer in his 70s - not unusual - and he told me that he was beginning to think that the younger lawyers needed a union
Sure. Which means they put the 15 dollar an hour legal aid on a "case" which is likely something for a bankruptcy filing or an offer in compromise to the IRS. Total hours for the legal aid is possibly 4 hours if you include phone calls. 4 x 15 = 60 and multiply that by 2 for total compensation and you get 120 cost. Then you bill the client for 4 x 400 or $1600. Net profit = $1480 more or less. I'll be generous and subtract mail, rent, renters insurance, etc. and say that it comes out to be about $1200 bucks take home for the lawyer.
| 575 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:29:50pm |
Well I am going to bed. Early class tomorrow and I don't want to have to spend money on coffee to wake up.
| 576 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:31:29pm |
re: #574 Gus 802
Sure. Which means they put the 15 dollar an hour legal aid on a "case" which is likely something for a bankruptcy filing or an offer in compromise to the IRS. Total hours for the legal aid is possibly 4 hours if you include phone calls. 4 x 15 = 60 and multiply that by 2 for total compensation and you get 120 cost. Then you bill the client for 4 x 400 or $1600. Net profit = $1480 more or less. I'll be generous and subtract mail, rent, renters insurance, etc. and say that it comes out to be about $1200 bucks take home for the lawyer.
Right and the Hospital or School or Corporation that is paying those big fees has to pass it on to the patient, taxpayer or consumer.
This is part of what I consider 'waste and corruption' that has to be gotten rid of.
| 577 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:31:37pm |
re: #573 ggt
I wouldn't have a problem with the lower 10% paying nothing but FICA and medicare. Anyone household making lower than $20K in my part of the world is dirt poor.
Agreed. According to that wiki site I linked to,
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Those in the lowest 20% have a negative income tax burden (mostly due to the earned income tax credits which Bush supported by the way) and a 1% tax burden after social security and medicare taxes (regressive taxes) are taken into account.
| 578 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:32:05pm |
I've gotta bail as well. Y'all have a good evening.
| 579 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:32:20pm |
re: #573 ggt
I wouldn't have a problem with the lower 10% paying nothing but FICA and medicare. Anyone household making lower than $20K in my part of the world is dirt poor.
1000 bucks a month for a 2 bedroom. There goes more than half the salary to rent alone. Whew. So, you move to a cheap neighborhood and then the family falls apart. You pay cheaper rent but can't sleep at night.
| 580 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:33:33pm |
re: #578 BryanS
I've gotta bail as well. Y'all have a good evening.
Later Bryan. Glad you're around to provide a counterpoint even if I disagree with some of it! ;)
| 581 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:33:38pm |
re: #579 Gus 802
1000 bucks a month for a 2 bedroom. There goes more than half the salary to rent alone. Whew. So, you move to a cheap neighborhood and then the family falls apart. You pay cheaper rent but can't sleep at night.
yep. Never mind putting any money in savings. You are lucky if you have the $500 deductible if you wreck your car.
| 582 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:34:50pm |
re: #581 ggt
yep. Never mind putting any money in savings. You are lucky if you have the $500 deductible if you wreck your car.
Yep. Then you have to take the bus. Plan on leaving 90 minutes early for the 10 mile trip. Then you have to be in bed earlier and up before the crack of dawn.
| 583 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:39:36pm |
And sometimes that CEO that makes billions gets cancer and dies just like everyone else. The inevitability of being human.
| 585 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:40:33pm |
re: #583 Gus 802
And sometimes that CEO that makes billions gets cancer and dies just like everyone else. The inevitability of being human.
Can't always get downloaded into the new clone in time . . .
| 586 |
engineer cat Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:42:23pm |
re: #582 Gus 802
Yep. Then you have to take the bus. Plan on leaving 90 minutes early for the 10 mile trip. Then you have to be in bed earlier and up before the crack of dawn.
reminds me of a great speech that jesse jackson used to give
"...she takes the early bus
she works every day
she raises other people's children
she works every day..."
| 587 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:42:33pm |
re: #585 ggt
Can't always get downloaded into the new clone in time . . .
One would think that curing cancer would be easier. If that time ever come I wonder if that wouldn't send people to the nut house as it were. Either that or you'd have to smoke lots of medical marijuana and get into it.
| 588 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:45:58pm |
re: #586 engineer dog
reminds me of a great speech that jesse jackson used to give
"...she takes the early bus
she works every day
she raises other people's children
she works every day..."
Monday through Friday. Saturday she gets the day off. Sunday she goes to church, Bible class, dinner... Monday comes and she starts all over again.
| 589 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:46:11pm |
re: #587 Gus 802
One would think that curing cancer would be easier. If that time ever come I wonder if that wouldn't send people to the nut house as it were. Either that or you'd have to smoke lots of medical marijuana and get into it.
Living forever is not what I want for myself. One lifetime is more than enough.
I'd just tell them to download me to storage.
Which series of books is that that this done--normal life? I can't remember the author.
| 590 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:46:58pm |
re: #588 Gus 802
Monday through Friday. Saturday she gets the day off. Sunday she goes to church, Bible class, dinner... Monday comes and she starts all over again.
Some of the happiest people I know live this kind of life . . . .and are surrounded by people who love them when they are old.
| 591 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:48:17pm |
| 592 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:52:42pm |
re: #590 ggt
Some of the happiest people I know live this kind of life . . .and are surrounded by people who love them when they are old.
I think about it sometimes. If I had been an TA-4 pilot for the Navy happily married with a girl from West Virginia with 3 kids and 7 grandchildren going to church every Sunday. That sounds nice to me.
| 593 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:52:48pm |
re: #504 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
So my kids apparently found the box I had my old USMC stuff in. I went to tuck them in and one is reading Military Operations in Urban Terrain and the other is reading Infantry Anti-armor Operations.
Very cool.
| 595 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:55:08pm |
re: #592 Gus 802
I think about it sometimes. If I had been an TA-4 pilot for the Navy happily married with a girl from West Virginia with 3 kids and 7 grandchildren going to church every Sunday. That sounds nice to me.
You can still go for it.
Tony Randall . .. . .
| 596 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:55:15pm |
Surprised to see Kirstie Alley and how she looks at 60. On the one hand, her skin is looking pretty good, but that is in part because it is... to put it delicately... rather stretched.
| 597 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:56:25pm |
re: #594 Gus 802
David Bowie wannabe?
I have no memory of Peter Murphy or this video.
| 598 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:56:48pm |
re: #587 Gus 802
One would think that curing cancer would be easier. If that time ever come I wonder if that wouldn't send people to the nut house as it were. Either that or you'd have to smoke lots of medical marijuana and get into it.
You'd think that, but it isn't. We still don't completely understand how the formation of cancer cells is triggered, among other things. It's a very complex problem, but it is one that is being actively worked on.
| 599 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:57:29pm |
re: #598 Dark_Falcon
You'd think that, but it isn't. We still don't completely understand how the formation of cancer cells is triggered, among other things. It's a very complex problem, but it is one that is being actively worked on.
Negative Karma!
| 600 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:58:08pm |
re: #596 freetoken
Surprised to see Kirstie Alley and how she looks at 60. On the one hand, her skin is looking pretty good, but that is in part because it is... to put it delicately... rather stretched.
I tried to load ABC's "Meet The Cast" page for DWTS and it crashed Firefox.
| 601 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:58:09pm |
re: #597 ggt
David Bowie wannabe?
I have no memory of Peter Murphy or this video.
Really. He was with Bauhaus.
| 602 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:59:09pm |
re: #599 ggt
Negative Karma!
I didn't mean that to sound nasty to Gus. Sorry if it sounded like that.
| 603 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:59:24pm |
re: #598 Dark_Falcon
You'd think that, but it isn't. We still don't completely understand how the formation of cancer cells is triggered, among other things. It's a very complex problem, but it is one that is being actively worked on.
There is a cure but big pharma and big corn is keeping it away from the American public!
//
| 604 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:59:59pm |
re: #602 Dark_Falcon
I didn't mean that to sound nasty to Gus. Sorry if it sounded like that.
I didn't see it.
| 605 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:00:02pm |
Still no memory. Obviously a David Bowie wannabe.
This is the only Bauhaus I know of.
| 606 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:00:16pm |
re: #603 Gus 802
There is a cure but big pharma and big corn is keeping it away from the American public!
//
Mr. Jones, is that you?
| 607 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:01:39pm |
re: #602 Dark_Falcon
I didn't mean that to sound nasty to Gus. Sorry if it sounded like that.
No, no. My lame attempt at humor. (and moonbat thinking)
did you like the ice this morning?
It was cool later in the day. Most of it melted but the trees and bushes and praire grasses were still covered in it--and glinting in the sun.
| 608 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:01:49pm |
re: #600 Dark_Falcon
I tried to load ABC's "Meet The Cast" page for DWTS and it crashed Firefox.
I tried to load the videos:
[Link: abc.go.com...]
with Safari and got into an infinite loop on Flash upgrades! It wanted to keep upgrading me to 10.2, then to 10.1, etc.
Finally had to use Firefox to view them.
| 609 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:02:17pm |
| 610 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:03:13pm |
I gotta go to sleep.
have a great morning all!
and think good thoughts that the Temple actually makes the car ride to school in the am.
| 611 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:04:10pm |
re: #607 ggt
No, no. My lame attempt at humor. (and moonbat thinking)
did you like the ice this morning?
It was cool later in the day. Most of it melted but the trees and bushes and praire grasses were still covered in it--and glinting in the sun.
I actually used a taxi to get to my morning train. My sense of balance is still only at about 90%, so I didn't want to risk a fall. The ice was mostly gone downtown once I was done with work and it was dark by the time I got home.
| 612 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:04:45pm |
I'm going to knock off as well. Sleep well, all.
| 613 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:05:56pm |
re: #590 ggt
Some of the happiest people I know live this kind of life . . .and are surrounded by people who love them when they are old.
It's true. But hell, would it hurt us so much to make life a little easier for them?
| 614 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:07:51pm |
I just updated the Temple Page to give thanks to Kragar and Varek and everyone who got me thru this harrowing experience. Apologies to anyone I forgot at this late hour.
Now to bed.
| 616 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:09:32pm |
re: #615 Gus 802
A Strange Kind of Love - Peter Murphy
[Video]
Pre-Show Radio show with Trent Reznor, Jeordie White (Guitar), Peter Murphy and Atticus Ross. Originally Posted on NIN.com
| 617 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:11:16pm |
re: #613 SanFranciscoZionist
It's true. But hell, would it hurt us so much to make life a little easier for them?
Apparently it's more important to buy another B-2.
| 619 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:13:06pm |
I've got an unopened bomber of Guinness and a half pack of cigarettes.
| 620 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:21:38pm |
Looking at the comments on the latest DWTS announcement... the twitter generation are complaining that they don't know who Sugar Ray Leonard is...
The youth of today - hmmm...
| 622 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:29:00pm |
re: #620 freetoken
Looking at the comments on the latest DWTS announcement... the twitter generation are complaining that they don't know who Sugar Ray Leonard is...
The youth of today - hmmm...
Really? Takes second to figure out. Can't know everybody.
| 623 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:30:03pm |
Seconds. Oh well. I was doomed to type on the fly and on the seat of my pants.
| 624 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:34:52pm |
re: #622 Gus 802
Oh, there were characters of which I hadn't heard.
I guess my point is that it's so simple to research these things.
And, Sugar Ray is one of the most famous boxers, especially being a non-heavy weight. And, I don't even follow boxing.
On this season he is no doubt the most well known of the men. The hip-hop guy is supposedly well known, to those who follow that genre and contemporary American music.
The women picked are by far the most interesting, from the trollop to Wendy Williams they're all attention getters.
| 626 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:39:48pm |
re: #624 freetoken
Oh, there were characters of which I hadn't heard.
I guess my point is that it's so simple to research these things.
And, Sugar Ray is one of the most famous boxers, especially being a non-heavy weight. And, I don't even follow boxing.
On this season he is no doubt the most well known of the men. The hip-hop guy is supposedly well known, to those who follow that genre and contemporary American music.
The women picked are by far the most interesting, from the trollop to Wendy Williams they're all attention getters.
It's pretty lame. I mean, how can you not have heard of Sugar Ray.
| 628 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:45:35pm |
re: #619 Gus 802
I've got an unopened bomber of Guinness and a half pack of cigarettes.
I have a couple Deschutes Red Chairs left
| 629 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:48:50pm |
re: #628 WindUpBird
I have a couple Deschutes Red Chairs left
Wake up the neighbors and crank up the Mariachi music!
Amnistia para todos los Mexicanos! Viva Mexico!
| 631 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:51:16pm |
re: #626 Gus 802
It's pretty lame. I mean, how can you not have heard of Sugar Ray.
Well, when you've spent most of your conscious moments in life glued to a twitter scroll I guess 20th century sports history has no place.
OTOH, Sugar Ray does have a cameo part (playing himself no less) in a movie that just won two Oscars. You'd think that would count for something.
| 633 |
Gus Mon, Feb 28, 2011 11:57:11pm |
re: #632 Gus 802
Buena Vista Social Club - Eliades Ochoa - El Carretero
[Video]
Ay, por el camino del sitio mío un carretero alegre pasó
En su tonada que es muy guajira y muy sentida alegre cantó
Ay, por el camino del sitio mío un carretero alegre pasó
En su tonada que es muy sentida y muy guajira alegre cantó.
Me voy al transbordador a descargar la carreta
Me voy al transbordador a descargar la carreta
Para llegar a la meta de mi penosa labor.
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte.
Yo trabajo sin reposo para poderme casar
Yo trabajo sin reposo para poderme casar
Y si lo puedo lograr seré un guajiro dichoso.
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte.
Soy guajiro y carretero, en el campo vivo bien
Soy guajiro y carretero, en el campo vivo bien
Porque el campo es el edén más lindo del mundo entero.
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte
A caballo vamos pa´l monte, a caballo vamos pa´l monte.
Chapea el monte, cultiva el llano, recoge el fruto de tu sudor
Chapea el monte, cultiva el llano, recoge el fruto de tu sudor.
| 636 |
RadicalModerate Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:02:30am |
Texas' Governor Rick Perry is padding his resume on subjects that he is an absolute failure at - In addition to Science, Economics, Civics, and History, let's add Geography to the list:
Texas-sized gaffe: Rick Perry thinks Juarez in U.S.
During a sit down with reporters on Monday, the Texas governor incorrectly identified Juarez — located across the Rio Grande, and border, from El Paso — as “the most dangerous city in America.”
The misstatement came in the middle of an impassioned assault on the administration’s record of enforcing the border.
“How many more American citizens are going to have to die?” Perry asked.
Perry then pointed out that “Juarez is reported to be the most dangerous city in America.”
After an aide informed the governor of his mistake, Perry clarified that Juarez indeed belongs to Mexico, not Texas.
| 637 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:03:51am |
re: #636 RadicalModerate
Texas' Governor Rick Perry is padding his resume on subjects that he is an absolute failure at - In addition to Science, Economics, Civics, and History, let's add Geography to the list:
What an idiot. Guess this is part of that American exceptionalism they're always talking about.
| 638 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:04:19am |
re: #636 RadicalModerate
Texas' Governor Rick Perry is padding his resume on subjects that he is an absolute failure at - In addition to Science, Economics, Civics, and History, let's add Geography to the list:
Perhaps Juarez is the most dangerous city in North America? Or maybe Perry was confused by all of the U.S. companies operating there?
| 639 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:04:53am |
re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist
Perhaps Juarez is the most dangerous city in North America? Or maybe Perry was confused by all of the U.S. companies operating there?
Speaking of which, what are they all doing there, since Texas, as I am repeatedly informed, has this real business-friendly environment?
| 644 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:20:13am |
Guess everyone fell asleep. Come on folks. We're Americans! We should at least be able to invade a country right now!
//
| 646 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:24:51am |
What a world...
@FrumForum FrumForum
Female Iraqi Bomb Squad Not Paid In Months: Female Iraqi Bomb Squad Not Paid In Months [Link: bit.ly...] #tcot
| 647 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:26:31am |
re: #646 Gus 802
What a world...
@FrumForum FrumForum
Female Iraqi Bomb Squad Not Paid In Months: Female Iraqi Bomb Squad Not Paid In Months [Link: bit.ly...] #tcot
Maybe they need a union.
| 648 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:27:58am |
re: #647 SanFranciscoZionist
Maybe they need a union.
Can't have that. That's either a) Communism b) not Republican and c) un-American! But wait! They're not Americans! What do we do?
| 650 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:32:36am |
| 651 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:33:23am |
re: #650 boxhead
yeah... like Hawaii... :)
Right. Including Kenya. And Kentucky. The latter of which seems to be more of a foreign country more and more as time goes by.
| 653 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:36:10am |
re: #651 Gus 802
Right. Including Kenya. And Kentucky. The latter of which seems to be more of a foreign country more and more as time goes by.
so... Unless I am missing something, the fact that Obama's mother is a USA Citizen in good standing, it should not matter where he was born....
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Is the below not correct for Obama?
If one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if
* the U.S. citizen parent has been "physically present"[6] in the U.S. before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and
* at least two of those five years were after the U.S. citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.
| 654 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:38:46am |
re: #653 boxhead
so... Unless I am missing something, the fact that Obama's mother is a USA Citizen in good standing, it should not matter where he was born...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Is the below not correct for Obama?
It is correct. US law acknowledges citizenship both by parentage and by birth in the United States.
Had he been born in Kenya, he would still be a citizen of the United States by birth, through his mother. Same way McCain was born in Panama, but is a US citizen through his parents' citizenship.
This is an intensely stupid non-scandal. Believing it to be true involves an incredible amount of suspension of disbelief, and it would have no legal significance if it were true. But GOD it's got legs.
| 655 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:40:30am |
re: #653 boxhead
so... Unless I am missing something, the fact that Obama's mother is a USA Citizen in good standing, it should not matter where he was born...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Is the below not correct for Obama?
I ran out of logic with these people two years ago. I no longer have the will to impose it on these fools. Birthers have a mental handicap. We should pity them for their damaged minds which beyond their control. They need help and my only thoughts now is that we should provide system which provides them the counseling required to live their lives as normally as possibly. Until then. Birhters will only be a burden on society.
| 657 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:43:46am |
re: #655 Gus 802
I ran out of logic with these people two years ago. I no longer have the will to impose it on these fools. Birthers have a mental handicap. We should pity them for their damaged minds which beyond their control. They need help and my only thoughts now is that we should provide system which provides them the counseling required to live their lives as normally as possibly. Until then. Birhters will only be a burden on society.
arrrgg.... My volunteering at the local VFW puts me in contact with such folks. I like them and respect them as people and for what they do and have done, but........................ arrggg I have to bite my tough far too often, but not always... :)
| 658 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:44:50am |
re: #657 boxhead
arrrgg... My volunteering at the local VFW puts me in contact with such folks. I like them and respect them as people and for what they do and have done, but... arrggg I have to bite my tough far too often, but not always... :)
Thank Fox News. Thank World Net Daily. Thank Newsmax. Thank the Republican Party.
| 659 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:47:13am |
re: #658 Gus 802
Thank Fox News. Thank World Net Daily. Thank Newsmax. Thank the Republican Party.
lol.... Some folks think Soros is the EVIL in the world while ignoring Murdoch and the Koch brothers.... World Net Daily is like the old tabloid World Weekly News... if so many were not fooled it would be hilarious...
| 660 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:47:29am |
I'd rather listen to a good song then some guy that can play a guitar really fast. I'm over that.
| 661 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:49:52am |
OMG... off topic.... I am listening to Sports Central and NCAA basketball highlights are on... The commenter call a bad shot, "That was Aunt Ester ugly" referencing the Sanford and Son TV show.... awesome!
| 662 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:50:04am |
re: #654 SanFranciscoZionist
It is correct. US law acknowledges citizenship both by parentage and by birth in the United States.
Had he been born in Kenya, he would still be a citizen of the United States by birth, through his mother. Same way McCain was born in Panama, but is a US citizen through his parents' citizenship.
This is an intensely stupid non-scandal. Believing it to be true involves an incredible amount of suspension of disbelief, and it would have no legal significance if it were true. But GOD it's got legs.
To expand on this a little. As you say, in realty the effect on his eligibility for the presidency would be zero even if he was born in Kenya.
But they probably think that if they could prove he was born in Kenya they would get to have a showdown over the meaning of "natural born" citizen. IMO, that is part of what they want, as much as any desire to oust Obama.
| 663 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:51:17am |
re: #659 boxhead
lol... Some folks think Soros is the EVIL in the world while ignoring Murdoch and the Koch brothers... World Net Daily is like the old tabloid World Weekly News... if so many were not fooled it would be hilarious...
It's Soros against the world really. The Koch brothers are on Putin's side. It's genetic. Their father sided with Stalin. When you combine all of the right wing money in this world Soros is just a blotch. Russia and China are both authoritarian right wing regimes. Ironically. Leftism is about liberty and freedom. Rightism is about authoritarianism and totalitarianism. Leftism accepts homosexuals which China and Russia do not. Both countries have more in common with the GOP. China is a right wing state as is Russia.
| 664 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:53:46am |
| 665 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:57:33am |
re: #664 boxhead
stop being a buzz kill... :p I want more fluffy clouds and shite... :)
//
I know. But it's true. Right wingers hate gay people. So does China, Russia, North Korea... Therefore most right wingers have more in common with those countries. American left wingers accept gays. Right wingers are a lot like Communists totalitarians. Look at the religious right. They want to form a sort of nationalist Protestant state in the USA. They're basically Bolsheviks with a Bible.
| 666 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:03:12am |
re: #665 Gus 802
I know. But it's true. Right wingers hate gay people. So does China, Russia, North Korea... Therefore most right wingers have more in common with those countries. American left wingers accept gays. Right wingers are a lot like Communists totalitarians. Look at the religious right. They want to form a sort of nationalist Protestant state in the USA. They're basically Bolsheviks with a Bible.
I know... with all the legislation aimed at curbing women Rights, to me it seems like the Righties want a Christian Taliban. But with the Righties hate for American workers, you would think that the Communist totalitarians would not mix with our confused Right. I like to think of our confused Right like that special cousin that has to be kept in the basement because of far too much alcohol at a family reunion... :)
I make myself laugh sometimes...
| 667 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:08:29am |
re: #666 boxhead
I know... with all the legislation aimed at curbing women Rights, to me it seems like the Righties want a Christian Taliban. But with the Righties hate for American workers, you would think that the Communist totalitarians would not mix with our confused Right. I like to think of our confused Right like that special cousin that has to be kept in the basement because of far too much alcohol at a family reunion... :)
I make myself laugh sometimes...
Might as well get drunk. The irony is that the most alleged "exceptional" country in the world is also the most ignorant and dumbest country in the industrial world. All we have is money or wealth. We can afford to send in the cavalry but that's about it. Right now most of the right wing is ironically afraid of losing Gaddafi because they think the Islamist will take over which in fact might happen. That's only because the Libyans are just as dumb as Americans. Guess the bottom line is that humans are just stupid. Only we have a larger navy.
| 668 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:13:51am |
And so going back to what I said above. America having this father complex or guilt complex which started in 1939 thinks they're the world's policeman. Even though we really can't afford it we do it anyway: play world cop. And that costs trillions. We've been at is since December 7, 1941 or nearly 70 years ago. So we have the right wing that's all amped up to fight in these war or escapades (in theory) who are so committed that they want to sacrifice our very own nation just to fight in war that might provide closure for their never ending guilt for having ignored the Nazis prior to 1941 until the Japanese (an Axis power) attacked Pearl Harbor. Because if it wasn't for Pearl Harbor the USA would have remained an isolationist nation.
| 669 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:16:59am |
re: #667 Gus 802
I have a huge problem with the American exceptionalism attitude. IMO, we have taken our success for granted without much thought about how we got here. We got lazy. And stupid. And it takes a long time for such accumulated success to be pissed away on nothing, but sure as shit, we are doing it.
If America is exceptional simply because it is America, and not because of the huge effort to make it that way, then why should we bother to work hard at all? Exceptionalism is a powerful force for mediocrity.
| 670 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:17:52am |
And most WWII vets didn't want to fight in Korea. Dick Winters basically said shove it. And look at where we are now. Still being the great protectorate of South Korea in a war that should have ended 58 years ago. So the NORKS are nuts but South Korea isn't exactly a democracy. Yet there we are. Still playing toy soldier for South Korea.
| 671 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:19:17am |
re: #667 Gus 802
Might as well get drunk. The irony is that the most alleged "exceptional" country in the world is also the most ignorant and dumbest country in the industrial world. All we have is money or wealth. We can afford to send in the cavalry but that's about it. Right now most of the right wing is ironically afraid of losing Gaddafi because they think the Islamist will take over which in fact might happen. That's only because the Libyans are just as dumb as Americans. Guess the bottom line is that humans are just stupid. Only we have a larger navy.
dude!!!! you're killing me.... //
seriously, I am very much in your zip code of thought. being raised by a WWII Vet who became Aerospace engineer and made the sacrifice to send all eight kids to private school because being learned was paramount, seeing a vast portion of USA willfully turn away from science hurts beyond words.... I want to scream from a mountain top. So yeah... I might as well get drunk... I will be pouring myself a shot of tequila, thank you very much... :|
| 672 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:20:49am |
re: #668 Gus 802
And so going back to what I said above. America having this father complex or guilt complex which started in 1939 thinks they're the world's policeman. Even though we really can't afford it we do it anyway: play world cop. And that costs trillions. We've been at is since December 7, 1941 or nearly 70 years ago. So we have the right wing that's all amped up to fight in these war or escapades (in theory) who are so committed that they want to sacrifice our very own nation just to fight in war that might provide closure for their never ending guilt for having ignored the Nazis prior to 1941 until the Japanese (an Axis power) attacked Pearl Harbor. Because if it wasn't for Pearl Harbor the USA would have remained an isolationist nation.
Is it a father complex or just an outright play for USA tax dollars for the military industrial complex?
| 673 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:21:52am |
re: #672 boxhead
Is it a father complex or just an outright play for USA tax dollars for the military industrial complex?
Tough call. I guess that might have started in the 40s. Boeing and Ford being on the big receiving end. It came in earnest during the 50s which is why Eisenhower "mentioned" it.
| 675 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:27:06am |
re: #672 boxhead
Is it a father complex or just an outright play for USA tax dollars for the military industrial complex?
I imagine it is a confluence of many factors. I couldn't really say how big the military industrial complex is as a factor, but they are A factor IMO.
When you have an industry worth as much, and employes as many, as the military industrial complex is/does, people will find reasons to buy that hardware, use it up, and buy more. The economy literally depends on it.
| 676 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:29:53am |
re: #673 Gus 802
Tough call. I guess that might have started in the 40s. Boeing and Ford being on the big receiving end. It came in earnest during the 50s which is why Eisenhower "mentioned" it.
If you look at the amount of money we give to Egypt, it almost is an exact match to what Egypt buys from our defense contractors. We have troops in how many countries still? Why? Now I do support taking care of our troops to the N'th level. If they are deployed anywhere I want USA to take VERY good care of them. And when they get back, full GI Bill support. And I also believe in constant and focused research to keep pushing the edge... in all things....
| 677 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:30:13am |
re: #675 prononymous
I imagine it is a confluence of many factors. I couldn't really say how big the military industrial complex is as a factor, but they are A factor IMO.
When you have an industry worth as much, and employes as many, as the military industrial complex is/does, people will find reasons to buy that hardware, use it up, and buy more. The economy literally depends on it.
That's what we have now. And have had for a long time. A war economy. The last vestige being Afghanistan which will inevitably fail. Iraq will settle into a quasi Islamist/secular state much like Turkey.
| 678 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:30:18am |
re: #675 prononymous
The economy literally depends on it.
To build on one of my earlier points (way up stream), the cost of the military expenditures during the GWB presidency built a huge debt. However, they were also exactly like any other government spending in this regard - it was a jobs program.
Most of that money was spent in the US (and the military members.) Like any other kind of government spending, that created a flow of money in this economy.
Yes, GWB is a Keynesian.
| 679 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:32:37am |
re: #676 boxhead
If you look at the amount of money we give to Egypt, it almost is an exact match to what Egypt buys from our defense contractors. We have troops in how many countries still? Why? Now I do support taking care of our troops to the N'th level. If they are deployed anywhere I want USA to take VERY good care of them. And when they get back, full GI Bill support. And I also believe in constant and focused research to keep pushing the edge... in all things...
Troops in Germany, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Bahrain, Poland, United Kingdom, and most of the Oceans.
It's all free of course which is good. :)
| 680 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:33:09am |
re: #677 Gus 802
That's what we have now. And have had for a long time. A war economy. The last vestige being Afghanistan which will inevitably fail. Iraq will settle into a quasi Islamist/secular state much like Turkey.
I want a energy economy... a sustainable economy... a knowledge economy.... a health economy... and a ROCK N' ROLL economy... :) not sure how the last one will work,, heh
| 681 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:34:23am |
re: #680 boxhead
I want a energy economy... a sustainable economy... a knowledge economy... a health economy... and a ROCK N' ROLL economy... :) not sure how the last one will work,, heh
Keep waiting. Even Obama can't pull himself from the lure of militarism. Now that's saying something.
| 682 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:36:29am |
And even the so called peace hippie Jimmy Carter was another one that was drawn into war lust and signed off on East Timor that ended up with the deaths of 100,000. Which means even American liberals sign off on not only the military industrial complex but warring.
| 684 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:38:20am |
re: #679 Gus 802
Troops in Germany, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Bahrain, Poland, United Kingdom, and most of the Oceans.
It's all free of course which is good. :)
The military of the United States is deployed in more than 150[1] countries around the world, with more than 369,000 of its 1,580,255[2] active-duty personnel serving outside the United States and its territories. Many of these personnel are still located at installations activated during the Cold War, by which the US government sought to counter the Soviet Union in the aftermath of World War II. Since 2001, the US has redeployed some of its forces as part of the "War on Terror."
from United States military deployments via wikipedia
wow..
| 685 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:38:41am |
| 686 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:39:50am |
re: #682 Gus 802
And even the so called peace hippie Jimmy Carter was another one that was drawn into war lust and signed off on East Timor that ended up with the deaths of 100,000. Which means even American liberals sign off on not only the military industrial complex but warring.
That is why I should be King.... I would be awesome. Gus, wanna be my right hand man? :)
//
| 687 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:42:19am |
re: #678 freetoken
I'd love to expand this into a further point about how government spending can indeed lead to economic growth, contradicting the common talking point. But I'm tired and my brain is just about done. I'm going to squeeze the last few drops out of it onto ElSuerte in the last thread and then go lay down in bed awake for 3 hours until I fall asleep.
Stupid insomnia.
| 688 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:42:55am |
re: #678 freetoken
To build on one of my earlier points (way up stream), the cost of the military expenditures during the GWB presidency built a huge debt. However, they were also exactly like any other government spending in this regard - it was a jobs program.
Most of that money was spent in the US (and the military members.) Like any other kind of government spending, that created a flow of money in this economy.
Yes, GWB is a Keynesian.
Jobs yes, but they were not best for what ails us. The USA infrastructure is in shambles. This not up for debate. But what does our elected officials do? Argue over social issues..... Talk about fiddling while Rome is burning..
| 689 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:43:27am |
re: #687 prononymous
I'd love to expand this into a further point about how government spending can indeed lead to economic growth, contradicting the common talking point. But I'm tired and my brain is just about done. I'm going to squeeze the last few drops out of it onto ElSuerte in the last thread and then go lay down in bed awake for 3 hours until I fall asleep.
Stupid insomnia.
good night...
| 690 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 1:57:29am |
all alone here again.... I really should keep better hours.... or not bore folks... nah... never the latter.
| 692 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 1, 2011 2:40:59am |
re: #689 boxhead
good night...
Good night/good morning fellow lizards. It's time to go stare at my ceiling for a few hours.
| 693 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 2:45:03am |
"Back O' Town Blues" by L.A. w/Dukes of Dixieland:
| 694 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:00:27am |
Why do I find it so relaxing to rise before the dawn and have these moments o peace?
Why can't the IT department get an off-site FTP site up and running for the times when the in-house one crashes and burns?
Questions of the universe.
| 695 |
boxhead Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:10:11am |
re: #694 Obdicut
Why do I find it so relaxing to rise before the dawn and have these moments o peace?
not very relaxing... this stuff depresses me... :(
Why can't the IT department get an off-site FTP site up and running for the times when the in-house one crashes and burns?
Questions of the universe.
cause bosses never understand or value the idea of not having a single point of failure.. :)
| 696 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:32:28am |
Later today the House Energy and Commerce committee will continue it's attack on a non-existent threat: a "cap and trade" system that no one is planning to institute:
As one can see from the "witness" list it's going to be coal speaking to their employees congressmen. Live video is promised.
The EPA regulations that have been settled upon are not "cap and trade". That's because there is nothing to trade. The EPA limits are emissions limits, period.
The bill that the Republicans are proposing is to explicitly outlaw any regulations that limit CO2 emissions. Yet the Republicans keep to the talking point of "cap and trade" reworded as "cap'n'tax" because their constituents have been trained (by huge amounts of propaganda) to respond to that phrase.
Pavlov would be proud.
| 698 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:34:37am |
re: #695 boxhead
Luckily, they're not my bosses, just a company I do work for.
So in the end, it's just their problem.
| 699 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:36:38am |
re: #696 freetoken
It's more Skinner than Pavlov.
(pet peeve).
The GOP position on pollution seems to me to be more regressive than when I was growing up. When I was younger, I seem to remember some GOP members actually being stalwarts of environmentalism, decrying suburban creep as despoiling natural resources. I guess environmentalism took a beating under Reagan, who was pretty damn anti-science.
| 700 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:38:25am |
| 701 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:39:13am |
re: #700 freetoken
Heh. True. It's an expansion of reflexive behavior beyond even what he'd proved. You're right.
| 702 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:42:52am |
Uh oh... the nuts will be crying "sharia" over this one:
Commentary: U.S. needs more Arabic, Hindi and Mandarin speakers
[... H]ere's the question: Is your child studying the right foreign language?
Even moderately progressive parents accepted long ago that it's a good idea that their children study some foreign language. It will broaden their worldview to study how people from other countries communicate.
But, most often, studying a foreign language means Spanish, French or German. [...]
But maybe you want your kid to be prepared to master the demands of the increasingly global society we keep hearing about. We're addicted to comparing our schools and their graduates with those in other parts of the world and moaning about how we're far from the top.
[...]
The Hurst-Euless-Bedford school district is among the leaders with its International Business Initiative program. Since 2007, H-E-B has offered Mandarin and Hindi classes to students beginning in seventh grade. Those who joined these classes four years ago are now sophomores at Bell and Trinity high schools, and the district plans to add classes for them through their senior years.
Coming next fall: classes in Arabic, completing the list of the critical three.
[...]
Some people in the Mansfield school district caused a stir recently when the district announced plans to offer Arabic studies at the elementary, middle and high school levels. Some feared that the district might be teaching Islam. Mansfield's plan has since been delayed.
H-E-B's program is language-focused, Parpia said. Of course, when you study a language, you can't help but learn some about the culture of the people who speak it. What are H-E-B students learning about those people?
"We're not that different," Parpia said. "We may live halfway around the world, but we're not that different."
[...]
Arabic!! SHARIA IN TEXAS!!
| 703 |
mdey Tue, Mar 1, 2011 3:46:38am |
re: #702 freetoken
Man, you are always so informative, sometimes too much so.
| 705 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Mar 1, 2011 4:05:36am |
| 706 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:07:02am |
I love Radiohead. But, York is a dork.
| 707 |
garhighway Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:11:12am |
re: #696 freetoken
Later today the House Energy and Commerce committee will continue it's attack on a non-existent threat: a "cap and trade" system that no one is planning to institute:
As one can see from the "witness" list it's going to be coal speaking to their
employeescongressmen. Live video is promised.The EPA regulations that have been settled upon are not "cap and trade". That's because there is nothing to trade. The EPA limits are emissions limits, period.
The bill that the Republicans are proposing is to explicitly outlaw any regulations that limit CO2 emissions. Yet the Republicans keep to the talking point of "cap and trade" reworded as "cap'n'tax" because their constituents have been trained (by huge amounts of propaganda) to respond to that phrase.
Pavlov would be proud.
Morning, all.
With any luck, we'll see Joe Barton at this hearing, and he'll apologize to all carbon molecules everywhere for the slanderous campaign they have had to endure at the hands of the commie pinko scientists.
| 708 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:15:44am |
Frank says:
They're serving burgers in the back!
Good morning lizards!
| 709 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:18:29am |
Sun goes down, sun comes up.
You can't explain that.
Morning! (Also not to be explained.)
:)
| 710 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:19:21am |
I know not all people like the News from the Stalkerdom, but this is hilarious. They mock Ludwig for misspelling "Carl" Rove. This is from the blog that has among its contributors such personages as "Hercales" (should be either Heracles or Hercules) and "Alcibiates" (should be Alcibiades). A bunch of illiterate morons.
| 711 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:22:33am |
Some shitty news out of SF...
Low-flow toilets cause a stink in SF
San Francisco's big push for low-flow toilets has turned into a multimillion-dollar plumbing stink.
Skimping on toilet water has resulted in more sludge backing up inside the sewer pipes, said Tyrone Jue, spokesman for the city Public Utilities Commission. That has created a rotten-egg stench near AT&T Park and elsewhere, especially during the dry summer months.
The city has already spent $100 million over the past five years to upgrade its sewer system and sewage plants, in part to combat the odor problem.
Now officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.
That translates into 8.5 million pounds of bleach either being poured down city drains or into the drinking water supply every year.
| 712 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:24:50am |
The man knows how to dress!
[Link: www.time.com...]
/
| 713 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:24:58am |
re: #711 NJDhockeyfan
Water - the most valuable resource.
Seriously, I'd rather use our limited water resources to flush the toilet than to water golf courses. And the big kicker are the green lawns that Americans seem to think are a god give requirement for any house.
| 714 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:26:11am |
re: #713 freetoken
Water - the most valuable resource.
Seriously, I'd rather use our limited water resources to flush the toilet than to water golf courses. And the big kicker are the green lawns that Americans seem to think are a god give requirement for any house.
I like living on the Great Lakes. We have all the water, bitches!
| 715 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:27:04am |
re: #714 Alouette
Even better now that it doesn't catch on fire-- thanks to environmental regulations.
My mom grew up in Erie.
| 716 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:27:08am |
re: #714 Alouette
I like living on the Great Lakes. We have all the water, bitches!
We had plenty of water falling out of the sky yesterday.
| 717 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:27:58am |
re: #709 Varek Raith
Sun goes down, sun comes up.
You can't explain that.Morning! (Also not to be explained.)
:)
Morning explained:
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 718 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:33:43am |
Found this at b_sharp's blog:
[Link: media.swissre.com...]
| 719 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:34:30am |
| 720 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:36:59am |
re: #714 Alouette
I like living on the Great Lakes. We have all the water, bitches!
Get me some Swill Mineral Water!
| 721 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:37:58am |
re: #702 freetoken
Uh oh... the nuts will be crying "sharia" over this one:
Commentary: U.S. needs more Arabic, Hindi and Mandarin speakers
Arabic!! SHARIA IN TEXAS!!
An interesting documentary can be found my googling "Turning Muslim in Texas".
| 722 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:45:47am |
Iran threatens to boycott 2012 London Olympics because of logo
Iran is threatening to boycott the 2012 Olympic Games in London because of the Games' logo.
londonlogo.jpgAccording to an Iranian official, the logo, with its blocky, abstract rendering of "2012," is racist because it appears to spell the word "Zion," a biblical term for Jerusalem, rather than 2012. Bahram Afsharzadeh, the secretary-general of Iran's National Olympic Committee, said via the official IRNA news agency that he sent a letter of complaint to International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge.
"There is no doubt that negligence of the issue from your side may affect the presence of some countries in the games, especially Iran, which abides by commitment to the values and principles," Afsharzadeh said in the letter to Rogge, according to the Associated Press, and urged other Muslim states to protest as well.
The International Olympic Committee and London's organizing committee disagree. "Our response is as follows: The London 2012 logo represents the figure 2012, nothing else," the IOC said.
Is there anything they won't whine about?
| 723 |
Ericus58 Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:48:03am |
re: #713 freetoken
Water - the most valuable resource.
Seriously, I'd rather use our limited water resources to flush the toilet than to water golf courses. And the big kicker are the green lawns that Americans seem to think are a god give requirement for any house.
"Hey you kids get off my Lawn!"
| 724 |
Ericus58 Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:52:13am |
I'll miss you, Jane.
You are a Goddess.
In pictures: Jane Russell
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
| 725 |
garhighway Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:52:59am |
re: #722 NJDhockeyfan
Iran threatens to boycott 2012 London Olympics because of logo
Is there anything they won't whine about?
Last night on Maddow, it was suggested that this was an attempt to divert attention from Iran's internal political turmoil. Seems reasonable to me, since they have known about the logo for something like 4 years.
| 726 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:54:44am |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
I have half-hearted support of unions. I am represented by a union, but I am not a member. Our store is too far from Denver proper to be a union store in this division, but all the employees at my store are represented by the UFCW. Our store follows all the points of the union contract in our region. But we don't pay union dues, and we can't vote on union issues.
I find the union helpful (and probably needed) in a number of areas,, and in other areas, I am totally against some practices.
For me, the most annoying process is seniority. I've been at the store almost a year (on the 31st of March). We have 20 cashiers, and we haven't hired any new cashiers since I was hired almost a year ago. Ergo, I'm on the bottom of the seniority list.
And as normal, shit rolls downhill, and I get the leftovers of hours, schedules and I have to pick up the slack when there are holes to fill in the schedule.
I don't see how it is good for a business to have some of the most productive employees in a position that they can't be scheduled at the most opportune times for the day to day running of the business.
I am in the top half of productive cashiers. I score high on speed, customer service and etc. Yet, some of the most unproductive of the cashiers will get scheduled during the hours that the store should be supplying the customer with the most customer service oriented visit. All because they have seniority.
I don't think that is good for the company, it doesn't support employees who are working to be the best, it doesn't help the customer, it seems to be a negative objective in many cases.
Seniority isn't supposed to be "good for the company". It's for the workers who blew out their backs years ago lifting cases or pouring steel. You gain the advantage of seniority when you get too old to be the best mule in the traces.
| 727 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 5:58:25am |
U.N. Council Poised to Adopt Report Praising Libya's Human Rights Record
As the United Nations works feverishly to condemn Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi for cracking down on protesters, the body's Human Rights Council is poised to adopt a report chock-full of praise for Libya's human rights record.The review commends Libya for improving educational opportunities, for making human rights a "priority" and for bettering its "constitutional" framework. Several countries, including Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia but also Canada, give Libya positive marks for the legal protections afforded to its citizens -- who are now revolting against the regime and facing bloody reprisal.
The U.S. mission in Geneva said it would look into the status of the document in response to a question about whether any efforts are being made to cancel or postpone consideration of the report. But an agenda put out by the United Nations in January said the Human Rights Council, of which Libya has been a member since last year, will "consider and adopt" the document at its session, which is under way and continues to the end of March.
UN Watch, a watchdog group based in Geneva, called on the council Monday to withdraw the report and launch a new review that "would tell the truth about the (Qaddafi) regime's heinous crimes."
| 728 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:02:42am |
Michigan police LT uses drug forfeiture laws to go on embezzling/shopping spree lasting years:
Corruption probe: Michigan State Police narcotics officers accused of stealing 22 cell phones, 30 designer purses, TVs, jewelry, motorcycles
[Link: www.mlive.com...]
Finally gets caught on tape:
| 729 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:03:55am |
| 730 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:05:04am |
re: #726 Decatur Deb
Seniority isn't supposed to be "good for the company". It's for the workers who blew out their backs years ago lifting cases or pouring steel. You gain the advantage of seniority when you get too old to be the best mule in the traces.
Pouring steel?
| 731 |
Jadespring Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:05:55am |
Morning all.
Gadhafi has over 2 billion dollars stashed in Canada banks. That's frozen now as well as the assets of Libyan govt itself, it's central bank and those of 15 close 'associates.' Wonder who though folks might be.
Our gov't has also forbidden any Canadian company operating in Libya right now in making any financial transactions with the Libyan gov't.
| 732 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:07:04am |
| 733 |
Jadespring Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:08:17am |
I've worked in lots of jobs. Seniority and things that happen with it like Walter describes is hardly just a union thing.
| 735 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:11:25am |
re: #722 NJDhockeyfan
Plus the "Basiji women beating" event was turned down as a demonstration sport...
| 736 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:11:31am |
re: #733 Jadespring
I've worked in lots of jobs. Seniority and things that happen with it like Walter describes is hardly just a union thing.
Pretty much started with the unions, part of their effort to get out from under the "disposable-tool" business ethic.
| 737 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:14:15am |
re: #732 Decatur Deb
Pouring steel, like my schoolmates. I'm from 1940's Pittsburgh.
"You're not a real man unless you have scars from arm wrestling with red hot ingots under your hands."
~ told to me by an elderly Pittsburgh man who has scars on the backs of his hands.
| 738 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:16:14am |
re: #734 RogueOne
You're old-school!
Had a steelworkers union buddy from Pgh in basic training. After I told him about my early jobs humping stuff in garment district warehouses and studios he asked "Yes, but did you ever work for a living?"
| 739 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:16:15am |
Everyone have a good time with this one yesterday?
'61 memo claims Ted Kennedy tried to rent brothel
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
According to the memo, the Massachusetts Democrat made arrangements to rent the brothel "for an entire night" in Santiago earlier in 1961. "Kennedy allegedly invited one of the Embassy chauffeurs to participate in the night's activities," according to the memo.
.....
Kennedy was making a fact-finding trip to several Latin American countries. "Kennedy met with a number of individuals known to have communist sympathies," the memo said.
The brothel must have been a union shop.
| 740 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:17:11am |
re: #738 Decatur Deb
Had a steelworkers union buddy from Pgh in basic training. After I told him about my early jobs humping stuff in garment district warehouses and studios he asked "Yes, but did you ever work for a living?"
My brothers first day working at a large refinery in IL they had a massive explosion that shut down the plant for almost 2 months.
| 741 |
garhighway Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:17:31am |
re: #739 RogueOne
Everyone have a good time with this one yesterday?
'61 memo claims Ted Kennedy tried to rent brothel
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]The brothel must have been a union shop.
Only 50 years ago? You couldn't find anything older?
| 742 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:18:01am |
re: #739 RogueOne
Everyone have a good time with this one yesterday?
'61 memo claims Ted Kennedy tried to rent brothel
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]The brothel must have been a union shop.
But you can see Ted was true to his Democratic roots--he invited the driver in.
| 743 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:19:35am |
re: #741 garhighway
Only 50 years ago? You couldn't find anything older?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were part of the family. No disrespect intended.
It happened 50 years ago but the news is only 24 hours old. I assumed everyone had fun with it yesterday.
| 744 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:20:30am |
re: #742 Decatur Deb
But you can see Ted was true to his Democratic roots--he invited the driver in.
Sometimes you have to go deep undercover to get the whole story. He was taking one for the team.
| 745 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:22:03am |
re: #744 RogueOne
Sometimes you have to go deep undercover to get the whole story. He was taking one for the team.
I hear some of those deep undercover missions can last for a very long time.
| 746 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:23:15am |
re: #744 RogueOne
Sometimes you have to go deep undercover to get the whole story. He was taking one for the team.
If the Senator had been a Repub, the driver would have been told to wait outside, with the engine running. (Not that that would have wasted much gas.)
| 748 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:24:47am |
re: #745 NJDhockeyfan
I hear some of those deep undercover missions can last for a very long time.
"deep"
| 749 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:25:51am |
Gaddafi Wants to Abolish Switzerland
Switzerland has also moved to freeze the assets of the Libyan regime. But it seems unlikely that Colonel Gaddafi and his cronies would be stashing their wealth in Zurich these days.
Gaddafi has been calling for Switzerland to be abolished since 2009.
Yes, abolished.
Gaddafi believes Switzerland is "a world mafia and not a state," according to Time Magazine. So he submitted a proposal to the United Nations recommending that "the Italian-speaking part of the country should be returned to Italy, the German-speaking part to Germany and the French-speaking part to France."
| 750 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:27:37am |
re: #747 wee fury
I never liked Ted.
Neither did I, much, but when the 2nd amendment solutions were applied he was all we had left.
| 751 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:28:45am |
re: #749 NJDhockeyfan
I had to check to make sure that wasn't an onion story. I wish it were, it would have been funnier.
| 752 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:31:23am |
re: #749 NJDhockeyfan
He's also mad as hell that he is being overthrown before Queen Elizabeth 2 - as she has been running Britain longer than he's been in charge in Libya.
which, i mean, is obviously fair enough........
| 753 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:31:54am |
re: #750 Decatur Deb
Neither did I, much, but when the 2nd amendment solutions were applied he was all we had left.
The right to ski?
Speaking of the kennedys:
Sirhan says he can't remember assassination
[Link: www.mercurynews.com...]
| 754 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:33:18am |
In case anyone thinks that being anti Gahdaffi is a no brainer, there is always someone who will put a spanner in the works (other than China and Russia in general).
Looks like the only country that has more creationists than the USA is against mistreating the Gadafis (who cares about spelling):
Mr Erdogan, who faces the additional embarrassment of having accepted a human rights prize from Mr Gaddafi in December, has been careful to distance Turkey from western policies in the region. He said on Monday any form of sanctions or intervention could endanger the lives of Libyans and foreigners still in the country and he suggested that western governments were motivated more by calculations over oil than humanitarian concerns.
Sounds strangely familiar...///
| 755 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:34:49am |
Whole lot of crazy in that Sirhan article:
Pepper said in an interview with The Associated Press that he has had Sirhan examined several times by psychologist Daniel Brown of Harvard University, an expert in hypnosis of trauma victims. He will not disclose exactly what was accomplished in the sessions but said, "There have been substantial breakthroughs."Pepper said he may have more to say after the hearing.
"It was very clear to me that this guy did not kill Bob Kennedy," said Pepper.
Asked who did kill the senator, he said, "I believe I have it but I'm not going to deal with it at this time."
| 756 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:45:34am |
Rahm Emanuel's Twitter Imposter Revealed
[Link: www.politico.com...]
But @mayoremanuel (aka the fake Emanuel) wouldn't make his true identity known in the Twitterverse, even when the real Rahm Emanuel offered to donate money to charity if his impersonator would reveal himself.But a week after Emanuel won the election in the Windy City, the man behind the fake Twitter persona has come forward to The Atlantic.
His name is Dan Sinker, and he's the founder of Punk Planet, which The Atlantic called a "lengendary zine" on punk rock that published 80 issues.
| 757 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:46:03am |
re: #754 Naso Tang
Oh and of course this scoundrel...
Chavez: U.S. distorting situation in Libya 'to justify an invasion'
"Let's not get carried away by the drums of war, because the United States, I am sure that they are exaggerating and distorting things to justify an invasion," Chavez said Monday, according to Venezuelan state media.
| 758 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:46:27am |
Film of Galliano’s racist rant in bar
FASHION guru John Galliano was filmed having a vile racist rant during which he declared: "I love Hitler."
The British designer - an alleged Jew hater - then tells a horrified woman: "People like you would be dead. Your mothers, your forefathers, would all be f****** gassed."
His tirade was videoed by a friend of the people he was insulting - who were French and Italian, but not Jewish.
Galliano, 50, was at the same Paris bar where he allegedly launched a vicious verbal attack on two people last week - which led to him being arrested and suspended by fashion label Christian Dior.
After stating he loves Hitler and making the gassing remark, a woman is heard to say, 'Oh my God' before asking slurring Galliano if he had a problem.
He said: "With you. You're ugly." Asked where he was from, he said: "Your a***hole."
What an asshole. I hope this ends his chances for ever working again.
| 759 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:48:51am |
re: #757 Rightwingconspirator
Oh and of course this scoundrel...
Chavez: U.S. distorting situation in Libya 'to justify an invasion'
"Let's not get carried away by the drums of war, because the United States, I am sure that they are exaggerating and distorting things to justify an invasion," Chavez said Monday, according to Venezuelan state media.
Danny Glover was unavailable for comment.
| 760 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:50:33am |
re: #758 NJDhockeyfan
Film of Galliano’s racist rant in bar
What an asshole. I hope this ends his chances for ever working again.
| 761 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:50:51am |
re: #757 Rightwingconspirator
Yeah, but Turkey is in Nato and possibly the EU one day (though I am doubting that will happen). Fat Boy in Venezuela is getting nervous.
| 762 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:51:29am |
re: #759 NJDhockeyfan
Danny Glover was unavailable for comment.
Lurking under the same rock as Sean Penn perhaps. Funny how these guys don't mind the oppressions of real dictators and tyrants. But in their world view somehow the elected leaders of the US always have the worst motives. Before, during and after the Bush administrations.
| 763 |
garhighway Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:52:19am |
re: #743 RogueOne
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were part of the family. No disrespect intended.
It happened 50 years ago but the news is only 24 hours old. I assumed everyone had fun with it yesterday.
I'm not part of the family. (Not that I wouldn't mind seeing some Kennedy-scale coin come my way.) I see this as a clumsy proxy for "Democrats are slimy, too." And that's a fair conversation to have if it is arguably recent enough to be relevant to current day politics. (So John Edwards is, by that standard, absolutely fair game. He is an epic slimeball.) But a dead guy from 50 years ago?
I am sure that none of the Kennedys led exemplary personal lives. Back in the day, standards were different for everyone. One gets the sense that it was sort of part of the deal that back then alpha males in politics got some on the side. Just like alpha males in business or the military. Or just like the current day in other cultures.
Just saying.
| 764 |
garhighway Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:53:10am |
re: #762 Rightwingconspirator
Lurking under the same rock as Sean Penn perhaps. Funny how these guys don't mind the oppressions of real dictators and tyrants. But in their world view somehow the elected leaders of the US always have the worst motives. Before, during and after the Bush administrations.
I think you're projecting a little.
| 765 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:54:37am |
re: #760 Alouette
This type of "news" always makes me wonder how many other famous people there are out there in the world that I've never heard of, nor cared to.
| 766 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:57:08am |
re: #764 garhighway
I simply project what I have learned from their statements over the years.
Like on Bill Maher where he said journalists who criticize Chavez should go to jail. Not exactly a 1st amendment guy huh?
| 767 |
Ericus58 Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:57:55am |
re: #759 NJDhockeyfan
Danny Glover was unavailable for comment.
Sean Penn's publicists was declining comment.
| 768 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:59:06am |
re: #759 NJDhockeyfan
Danny Glover was unavailable for comment.
That's because he was in Indianapolis fighting real radicals:
Danny Glover lends support to Indiana union fight
[Link: www.wthr.com...]
| 769 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:07:23am |
re: #757 Rightwingconspirator
Well that's the same line that Khadafi is taking, and it's a line that an al Qaeda cleric is taking - that the US is behind the revolts, protests, uprisings, and revolutions throughout North Africa and Middle East to somehow create upheaval in the Arab world.
Never mind that it's been US policy for decades to keep a stable situation because it is in our strategic interest to keep things stable - to the point of ignoring autocrats and their heinous domestic agendas - because it was necessary to maintain the flow of oil that is critical to the world economy.
No, the reason for the protests throughout North Africa and Middle East is home-grown dissatisfaction with autocrats, kleptocrats, theocrats, and totalitarian regimes that ignore the sociopolitical well being of the people and whose harsh measures of repression have carried on for far too long.
| 770 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:14:39am |
re: #725 garhighway
The London 2012 logo is a mess, but it's a known mess - has been since it was unveiled June 2007 and has been widely panned by those in the UK and elsewhere.
Iran's regime needs something to gin up a controversy blaming Israel for something, so they've pulled this out of their collective arse as though Israel has some connection to the Olympic logo.
What Iran can't deal with is the fact that when Israeli athletes compete with Iranian athletes, the Iranian regime can't stand for the possibility of losing an athletic endeavor to the Israelis so they withdraw from the events to avoid the embarrassment.
| 771 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:17:47am |
Morning all!
the Temple of Vesta made it to school without mishap. It is not OUT of my life.
How are you all?
| 772 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:22:40am |
A Guide To Protests In Middle East, North Africa
It is gettign confusing. This map has a nice little scroll over that gives the 'quick facts' about each country. 10 Countries and counting. . . .
| 773 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:25:59am |
Oman has a religion I've never heard of, Ibadhi.
The Ibadis are the only remnants today of the once powerful Khariji movement, the earliest Muslim sect. They number some 1.5 million members, of which 1.2 million live in Oman where they are the dominant political force and make up 75% of its Arab population. The others are Berbers scattered around North Africa - mainly the Mzabis of the Ghardaia oasis in Algeria (some 150,000) - and smaller communities on Jerba island and in some villages of Tunisia and of the Jebel Nafusa of Libya. A few Ibadis also live on the main island of Zanzibar and in a few other parts of East Africa.
The Kharijis were extreme fanatics who often rebelled against the accepted order in the first two centuries of Islam. They developed a doctrine of continuous Jihad (holy war) against all Muslims who would not accept their teaching and authority and whom they therefore considered to be infidels.
The Ibadis were founded by 'Abd Allah ibn-Ibad in Basra in the 680s as a moderate Khariji group opposed to armed rebellion and political assassination and willing to live in harmony with other Muslims. Because of their legalism and strict moral code they are called "the puritans of the desert".
| 774 |
theheat Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:27:08am |
re: #758 NJDhockeyfan
Total douchebag, and quite full of himself. I suppose his ego denies the fact there are more talented up-and-comers in the fashion world ready to eat his lunch that don't worship Hitler.
Career suicide by misadventure.
| 775 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:29:31am |
re: #771 ggt
Morning all!
the Temple of Vesta made it to school without mishap. It is not OUT of my life.
How are you all?
It never will be!!
Every time you view a Vista or rode a Vespa, it will haunt you
| 776 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:31:24am |
re: #766 Rightwingconspirator
I simply project what I have learned from their statements over the years.
Like on Bill Maher where he said journalists who criticize Chavez should go to jail. Not exactly a 1st amendment guy huh?
Why not? It's his right to say that!!
;)
| 777 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:33:37am |
re: #775 sattv4u2
It never will be!!
Every time you view a Vista or rode a Vespa, it will haunt you
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhh!
| 779 |
Jadespring Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:38:58am |
A CEO, union member, and unemployed Tea Party'er sit at a table with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 of them, and turns to the Tea Party supporter to say "hey, I think that union guy is going to take your cookie".
| 780 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:52:11am |
UK jury convicts Bangladeshi man on terror related charges. The man, Rajib Karim, 31, who worked as a computer specialist for British Air, sought a job as an airline attendant so as to gain access to planes and had multiple communications with Anwar al-Awlaki over how to carry out terror attacks.
If anything, this underscores the importance of ongoing screening of not only passengers but air crews. Al Qaeda continues to attempt to attack airlines and Karim was being used to obtain intel about airlines and air security measures and how to circumvent them.
| 781 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:52:36am |
re: #779 Jadespring
A CEO, union member, and unemployed Tea Party'er sit at a table with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 of them, and turns to the Tea Party supporter to say "hey, I think that union guy is going to take your cookie".
Let's see. The CEO will be giving a cookie or two to the Tea Party in the form of a tax deductible contribution. He will then give another 6 to the Union to fulfill wage contracts--also a deduction. Of the remaining 4, 2 will go to the government in the form of taxes. He is left with 2.
Less than the the amount he would have if the 12 were divided evenly 3 ways.
| 782 |
simoom Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:56:17am |
re: #172 Killgore Trout
It's a sad day when Fox Nation does the work the rest of the MSM won't do...
All Hell Breaks Loose on The View After 9/11 Truther Cuts Loose
Now how about dealing the the 9-11 truthers employed by Fox?
Does FoxNation not know their own audience? I have to imagine there's a significant overlap between Glenn Beck & Andrew Napolitano fans (i.e. FoxNation readers) and Alex Jones fans. The mostly pro-Jones comment section for that article seems to bear that out.
| 783 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:00:17am |
Pence's attack on Planned Parenthood foolish
Pence's argument would be laughable if the damage his legislation could do weren't so frightening. It's laughable because it is already illegal for federal money to be used to fund an abortion. If Pence wants to dole out federal aid based on the popular support of Americans, he should champion abortion rights. According to a 2010 Gallup poll, 78% of Americans think abortions should be legal (24% under any circumstances; 54% in limited circumstances). Just 19% said it should be illegal, a percentage that has never risen above 23% since Gallup started asking the question in 1975.
emphasis mine
| 785 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:08:08am |
re: #781 ggt
Let's see. The CEO will be giving a cookie or two to the Tea Party in the form of a tax deductible contribution. He will then give another 6 to the Union to fulfill wage contracts--also a deduction.
How on earth is this true? Do you think all workers are unionized or something?
| 786 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:08:10am |
re: #783 ggt
Just 19% said it should be illegal, a percentage that has never risen above 23% since Gallup started asking the question in 1975.
The majority of the country thinks that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. The polling consistently bears this out as Gallup repeatedly shows.
| 787 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:08:45am |
I put in a quote for the denver job late last week and already today I've had 2 requests for additional quotes. 1 add-on to the job I quoted and another from a contractor I do a lot of work with that just moved to Golden CO.
| 789 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:11:24am |
| 790 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:11:43am |
re: #787 RogueOne
I put in a quote for the denver job late last week and already today I've had 2 requests for additional quotes. 1 add-on to the job I quoted and another from a contractor I do a lot of work with that just moved to Golden CO.
Good news! Looks like the economy is picking up steam again.
| 791 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:14:57am |
OK, I almost got a little carried away last night (morning). Ended up sleeping on the foot side of the futon. In any event. Life goes on.
| 792 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:17:03am |
re: #788 Stanley Sea
Hokuboku Shannon R
by 8th_of_BranstadFox Masquerades GOP Activist As Concerned Parent To Attack Unions: [Link: bit.ly...] What a disgusting excuse for a news station #wiunion
Was just about to post that...
Once Again, Fox Masquerades GOP Activist As Concerned Parent To Attack Unions
February 28, 2011 10:27 am ET by Eric Schroeck
This morning, Fox & Friends hosted an "upset Wisconsin parent" to discuss her objection to Wisconsin public schools' teaching of labor union history. Left unsaid during the segment: The parent, Amber Hahn, is also a local GOP official...
Here's the link to her professional GOP page.
| 793 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:17:39am |
re: #790 Killgore Trout
Good news! Looks like the economy is picking up steam again.
People love dollar menus. Lets hear it for crappy food!
| 794 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:20:24am |
re: #790 Killgore Trout
Good news! Looks like the economy is picking up steam again.
Plus, I all but gave the first job away just so I could write a mini-vacation off as work. Can't beat the location as long as that snow crap is over with.
| 795 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:21:51am |
re: #792 Gus 802
Was just about to post that...
Once Again, Fox Masquerades GOP Activist As Concerned Parent To Attack Unions
February 28, 2011 10:27 am ET by Eric SchroeckHere's the link to her professional GOP page.
Disgusting propaganda. Gah.
| 796 |
kirkspencer Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:22:22am |
re: #781 ggt
Let's see. The CEO will be giving a cookie or two to the Tea Party in the form of a tax deductible contribution. He will then give another 6 to the Union to fulfill wage contracts--also a deduction. Of the remaining 4, 2 will go to the government in the form of taxes. He is left with 2.
Less than the the amount he would have if the 12 were divided evenly 3 ways.
And this is why, as everyone knows, the average CEO salary is less than that of the average Union worker. ////
| 798 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:26:14am |
re: #795 Stanley Sea
Disgusting propaganda. Gah.
@ScottKWalker Scott Walker
Campaigning @ Amber Hahn's farm in Poynette (Columbia Co).
| 799 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:28:40am |
And this is why I don't like Fox. Bias is one thing, having that bias get in the way of the news is another story. If they had represented her as Amber Hahn, Columbia County GOP official it would be one thing.
| 800 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:37am |
re: #799 HappyWarrior
And this is why I don't like Fox. Bias is one thing, having that bias get in the way of the news is another story. If they had represented her as Amber Hahn, Columbia County GOP official it would be one thing.
Yeah. Something along the lines of full disclosure.
| 801 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:41:48am |
"Thanks for sharing your personal story!" Ha! That's a gas. She was obviously coached for this appearance on Fox News.
| 802 |
alpuz Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:00am |
re: #792 Gus 802
Thanks for the links! Time to spread the word locally.
| 803 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:58am |
re: #802 alpuz
Thanks for the links! Time to spread the word locally.
Cool. And don't forget this...
[Link: twitter.com...]
She was also campaigning for Walker during election season.
"Concerned mom..." //
| 804 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:45:01am |
| 805 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:45:55am |
re: #796 kirkspencer
And this is why, as everyone knows, the average CEO salary is less than that of the average Union worker. ///
CEOs pay their workers out of their own personal after-tax income, didn't you know that?
| 806 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:48:49am |
re: #799 HappyWarrior
And this is why I don't like Fox. Bias is one thing, having that bias get in the way of the news is another story. If they had represented her as Amber Hahn, Columbia County GOP official it would be one thing.
It is kind or ironic that Fox and the Republicans have blown up political blogging that used to fact check people like Dan Rather or lefty bias at the BBC. Fox has gone so far beyond what the left used to do but they figured out that they don't have to hold themselves accountable because their audience will stick with them no matter what. It makes fact checking meaningless because there will never be corrections or firings.
| 807 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:49:02am |
re: #805 iossarian
CEOs pay their workers out of their own personal after-tax income, didn't you know that?
No. they just get their houses paraded on after signing a deal with the gubment.
And Good Afternoon Honcos.
| 808 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:49:27am |
Excellent Gus! Saw your tweet. Needs to go to the #wiunion folks too.
| 810 |
simoom Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:50:15am |
Fox News and conservative media have been pushing a story about how FNC reporter Mike Tobin was punched/assaulted while covering the Wisconsin protests. You can see how this originally aired on Fox in this clip:
There was only audio of the incident during the initial airing as Tobin had thrown back to the studio anchor. Oddly, as the assault story was pushed repeatedly during the rest of the day Fox continued to only replay the audio. This video, someone in the crowd captured, seems to show why:
^ At 30 seconds in, Tobin slaps a sign out of the way that was blocking his shot. At around 40 seconds in a white bearded man in a Santa hat approaches from behind and reaches over Tobin's left shoulder, briefly waving a sheet-of-paper-sized sign toward the camera. In the process it looks like he bumps Tobin's shoulder with his sign-holding hand. "Santa-hat" withdraws the sign, transfers it to his other hand, and then taps Tobin on the shoulder twice with a finger (to get his attention?). Both a man and a woman put their hands on "Santa hat's" shoulders, getting his attention. Tobin states, "That guy just hit me." Later Tobin indicates toward "Santa hat" and repeats, "That guy just hit me, just so you know."
I'm guessing Fox checked their video after the segment first aired and realized how anti-climactic it would be to their viewers, which is why they've only aired the audio since.
| 811 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:54:20am |
re: #810 simoom
I'm guessing Fox checked their video after the segment first aired and realized how anti-climactic it would be to their viewers, which is why they've only aired the audio since.
Heh. I was pretty sure the story was bogus when they were only running the audio yesterday. Thanks for the update.
| 812 |
simoom Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:55:23am |
re: #810 simoom
Incidentally, someone should really tell Tobin that this isn't how a real journalist does on the scene reporting:
Tobin: ...these people hate. These are people who don’t respect diverse viewpoints. In fact, they’re so afraid I’ll present a diverse viewpoint, that’s why they try to heckle me and shut down every live shot. They’ve made it clear, that what they want to make it harder for me to do my job. They are proud of that when they disrupt a live shot, when they really trample over the First Amendment rights or the First Amendment’s obligations of a reporter. Now, I am not saying that’s all of the people. Those are the people that come here and heckle and try to disrupt things. I look in their eyes – there is hate in their eyes. They don’t want to hear any kind of viewpoint that is different from their own. That’s why they do what they do.
| 813 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:56:16am |
re: #810 simoom
I heard that Fox cut to a "cut-away shot" for the time when dude was allegedly hit. (I don't watch cable news since they are all a bunch of charlatans)
| 814 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:58:29am |
Oh check this out
lbstewart Logan Stewart
by News3David
Here's a closer shot of what SC Gov Haley was doing on her Ipad while Obama was speaking. #sctweets [Link: plixi.com...]
| 815 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:00:29am |
re: #810 simoom
A short fictional scene involving Mikey (age 6) and Billy (age 4):
Mikey: "Mom, Billy's bothering me!"
Billy: "Mikey is a booger, a booger, a booger!"
[ WHACK ]
Billy: HE HIT ME!!!! Mikey HIT ME!!! WAAAAAAHHHHH!
(The End)
Tiresome, but what can you do?
| 817 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:02:10am |
re: #814 Stanley Sea
Oh check this out
lbstewart Logan Stewart
by News3DavidHere's a closer shot of what SC Gov Haley was doing on her Ipad while Obama was speaking. #sctweets [Link: plixi.com...]
Much as I would like that to be genuine, doesn't the top left corner of the screen look like it's a touch too sharp for the rest of the photo?
Hard to tell...
| 819 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:04:35am |
re: #817 iossarian
Much as I would like that to be genuine, doesn't the top left corner of the screen look like it's a touch too sharp for the rest of the photo?
Hard to tell...
It's a Republican. Who cares? Blast her.
/
| 822 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:06:19am |
re: #821 Stanley Sea
Thought so, her fingers were definitely in typing mode.
Here's the Daylife page...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
| 823 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:06:23am |
re: #821 Stanley Sea
Thought so, her fingers were definitely in typing mode.
Still disrespectful. Whatev. She had to keep up on the twitter feed.
| 824 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:06:29am |
re: #819 Cannadian Club Akbar
It's a Republican. Who cares? Blast her.
/
Nope, only fact-based criticism of Republicans here.
| 825 |
Gus Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:07:30am |
re: #823 Stanley Sea
Still disrespectful. Whatev. She had to keep up on the twitter feed.
Could have been taking notes? Someone brought that up. It's possible.
| 826 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:07:57am |
re: #824 iossarian
Nope, only fact-based criticism of Republicans here.
Uh, no. I have seen many (not you) report that all conservatives are bad.
| 827 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:09:45am |
re: #826 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, no. I have seen many (not you) report that all conservatives are bad.
Everybody sucks.
| 828 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:10:24am |
re: #826 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, no. I have seen many (not you) report that all conservatives are bad.
No, no, no... all republicans are racist.
| 829 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:11:45am |
re: #828 Walter L. Newton
No, no, no... all republicans are racist.
Well I wouldn't be if it weren't for the colored folk.
//Charles, delete this!!!!!!
| 831 |
simoom Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:15:36am |
Stewart on how ridiculous some of CNN's news coverage has become:
| 832 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:16:40am |
re: #826 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, no. I have seen many (not you) report that all conservatives are bad.
I have fallen into that pit. Mostly when I get angry with the world.
I do think that the fundamental "conservative" notion, that the status quo is worth preserving for its own sake, is not a very useful precept, and often works against disenfranchised minorities.
I also think that many people who brand themselves "fiscal conservatives" in fact espouse radical policies that a) make the US deficit larger rather than smaller and b) reward the wealthy at the expense of the poor.
But, having said both those things, there are a good number of people who identify themselves as "conservative", including several on LGF, who hold reasonable views.
| 833 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:17:56am |
re: #831 simoom
Did you see ABC and Christian Amanpour? Scary looking chick.
| 834 |
blueraven Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:19:04am |
re: #833 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you see ABC and Christian Amanpour? Scary looking chick.
What is so scary looking about her?
| 835 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:19:27am |
Meanwhile, this is a situation that will be interesting to observe over the next few decades:
| 836 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:19:45am |
re: #832 iossarian
OKEY DOKIE!!! The Lotto and the tax on smokes, beer and wine are a tax on the poor. Can we agree here?
| 837 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:20:02am |
The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions
Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.
| 838 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:20:17am |
re: #833 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you see ABC and Christian Amanpour? Scary looking chick.
That's Muammar Qaddafi. Yeah, he is a scary-looking chick.
| 839 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:20:45am |
re: #836 Cannadian Club Akbar
OKEY DOKIE!!! The Lotto and the tax on smokes, beer and wine are a tax on the poor. Can we agree here?
I didn't mean to sound like an asshole, my bad.
| 840 |
Kronocide Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:21:33am |
re: #832 iossarian
But, having said both those things, there are a good number of people who identify themselves as "conservative", including several on LGF, who hold reasonable views.
Thank you!
This site has a lot of left leaning souls and today's redefinition of conservatism has ruined the brand so I'm not about to get worked up about most of the stereotyping. There's a lot of truth to the stereotype, there's little value to fight it. Hell, have fun with it.
| 841 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:26:17am |
re: #838 Alouette
That's Muammar Qaddafi. Yeah, he is a scary-looking chick.
His "Girl Hit Parade"TM is HOT!!!
| 842 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:26:32am |
re: #836 Cannadian Club Akbar
OKEY DOKIE!!! The Lotto and the tax on smokes, beer and wine are a tax on the poor. Can we agree here?
Yes they are.
On the other hand, as long as the money collected in that way is supporting the poor as well, they are justifiable to some extent.
| 843 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:27:44am |
re: #842 iossarian
Yes they are.
On the other hand, as long as the money collected in that way is supporting the poor as well, they are justifiable to some extent.
Then tax soda, chips and everything else if it is so important.
| 844 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:28:20am |
re: #842 iossarian
Yes they are.
On the other hand, as long as the money collected in that way is supporting the poor as well, they are justifiable to some extent.
In particular, if people are going to gamble, I would rather they put their money into a pool that supports schools in low-income districts, than pay for some mob boss's gold-plated Cadillac.
| 845 |
Kronocide Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:29:05am |
re: #843 Cannadian Club Akbar
Then tax soda, chips and everything else if it is so important.
Tax beer, BBQ sauce, and ammo.
| 846 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:29:12am |
re: #843 Cannadian Club Akbar
Then tax soda, chips and everything else if it is so important.
BTW, we lost 500 jobs in Tampa to the tobacco tax. Kathy Castor voted for it.
| 847 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:30:28am |
| 848 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:30:43am |
Today's Lunch Special: schadenfreude.
"The Rev. Grant Storms, the Christian fundamentalist known for his bullhorn protests of the Southern Decadence festival in the French Quarter, was arrested on a charge of masturbating at a Metairie park Friday afternoon."
[Link: www.nola.com...]
Noted on Memeorandum.
| 849 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:31:47am |
re: #848 Decatur Deb
Sorry--someone already has a link up on that.
| 850 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:32:10am |
re: #848 Decatur Deb
Today's Lunch Special: schadenfreude.
"The Rev. Grant Storms, the Christian fundamentalist known for his bullhorn protests of the Southern Decadence festival in the French Quarter, was arrested on a charge of masturbating at a Metairie park Friday afternoon."
[Link: www.nola.com...]Noted on Memeorandum.
Didn't anyone ever tell him that every sperm is sacred?
| 851 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:33:16am |
re: #850 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The nice policeman 'splained it.
| 852 |
Honorary Consul General Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:33:38am |
re: #848 Decatur Deb
Today's Lunch Special: schadenfreude.
"The Rev. Grant Storms, the Christian fundamentalist known for his bullhorn protests of the Southern Decadence festival in the French Quarter, was arrested on a charge of masturbating at a Metairie park Friday afternoon."
[Link: www.nola.com...]Noted on Memeorandum.
I have 8 pairs of pregnant socks. Wait, what?
///
| 853 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:33:56am |
Don't get cocky kid! Libyan rebels celebrate victory over Khadafi's goons in town near Tripoli.
Residents of the rebel-held city closest to Libya's capital passed out sweets and cold drinks to fighters Tuesday and celebrated with a victory march after they managed to repel an overnight attack by forces loyal to longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.Pro-Gadhafi forces also were repelled as they tried to retake two other opposition-held cities: Misrata, Libya's third-largest city 125 miles (200 kilometers) east of Tripoli, and Zintan, 75 miles (120 kilometers) south of the Libyan capital.
The rebels have been fighting to consolidate their gains as the international community weighs new moves to isolate the longtime Libyan leader, including the possibility of creating a no-fly zone over Libya.
Witnesses in Zawiya said pro-Gadhafi forces battled rebels for six hours overnight but could not retake control of the city 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli. They said the last of several assaults by the Gadhafi loyalists came at around 3 a.m. local time.
This isn't over by a long shot, but it is heartening to see that Khadafi's forces can't retake these towns from the rebel forces.
| 854 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:37:24am |
re: #663 Gus 802
It's Soros against the world really. The Koch brothers are on Putin's side. It's genetic. Their father sided with Stalin. When you combine all of the right wing money in this world Soros is just a blotch. Russia and China are both authoritarian right wing regimes. Ironically. Leftism is about liberty and freedom. Rightism is about authoritarianism and totalitarianism. Leftism accepts homosexuals which China and Russia do not. Both countries have more in common with the GOP. China is a right wing state as is Russia.
While I often bring up the notion that Stalin was a social right-winger, I will take issue with "leftism is about liberty and freedom". Social liberalism is, but it is not necessarily leftist.
| 855 |
blueraven Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:38:58am |
re: #848 Decatur Deb
Today's Lunch Special: schadenfreude.
"The Rev. Grant Storms, the Christian fundamentalist known for his bullhorn protests of the Southern Decadence festival in the French Quarter, was arrested on a charge of masturbating at a Metairie park Friday afternoon."
[Link: www.nola.com...]Noted on Memeorandum.
Ha! He was just peeing in a bottle. Really, that's what he said!
| 856 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:39:04am |
re: #754 Naso Tang
In case anyone thinks that being anti Gahdaffi is a no brainer, there is always someone who will put a spanner in the works (other than China and Russia in general).
Looks like the only country that has more creationists than the USA is against mistreating the Gadafis (who cares about spelling):
Sounds strangely familiar...///
Russia is officially anti-Kaddafi now.
| 857 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:41:00am |
re: #836 Cannadian Club Akbar
OKEY DOKIE!!! The Lotto and the tax on smokes, beer and wine are a tax on the poor. Can we agree here?
Only on cheap smokes that require the pack to be repeatedly banged on the hand to compact the loose tobacco, and only on beer in quart size cans, and only on wine with screw tops.
Oh, and only on Lotto bets that have weird names.
| 859 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:42:16am |
re: #856 Sergey Romanov
Russia is officially anti-Kaddafi now.
Yes, I was quite surprised to see that unanimity in the security council. I am very suspicious.
| 861 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:45:32am |
| 862 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:45:52am |
re: #859 Naso Tang
Medvedev spoke against Kaddafi's actions as early as Feb. 25. So I don't gather whence the source of your surprise.
| 863 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:47:27am |
And today Kremlin called Kaddafi the "living political corpse" (the term they earlier used for Saakashvili).
| 864 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:47:42am |
re: #862 Sergey Romanov
Medvedev spoke against Kaddafi's actions as early as Feb. 25. So I don't gather whence the source of your surprise.
My previous two references to Russia were sarcasm, based on plenty of history. Why so sensitive?
| 865 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:50:18am |
re: #864 Naso Tang
Actually they were based on the ignorance of the situation. Pointing this out is now "sensitive"?
| 866 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:51:18am |
| 867 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:51:39am |
re: #866 Varek Raith
El Presidente is not amused.
/
| 869 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:52:02am |
re: #865 Sergey Romanov
Actually they were based on the ignorance of the situation. Pointing this out is now "sensitive"?
That's how it struck me, but if you are not sensitive to that type of sniping, I apologize for the suggestion.
| 870 |
iossarian Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:54:59am |
re: #866 Varek Raith
El Presidente is no amused.
/
My name is Skippito Friskito
I fear not a single bandito
| 872 |
Varek Raith Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:59:56am |
| 873 |
Kronocide Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:00:19am |
"In some of these states you've got collective bargaining laws that are so weighted in favor of the public employees that there's almost no bargaining," he told CBN. "We've given them a machine gun and put it right at the heads of the local officials and they really have their hands tied."
| 874 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:01:10am |
| 876 |
dmon Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:07:26am |
re: #873 BigPapa
I cant speak for collecting bargaining laws anywhere but Ohio, here only in about 2% of negotiations, is there an impasse that resorts in binding arbitration. of those cases, the arbitrators rule amazingly close to 50/50
| 877 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Mar 1, 2011 2:36:40pm |
re: #796 kirkspencer
No, it shows the size of the cookie. The CEO keeps the two cookies all to himself. The 6 he gave to the Union guy gets cut up into thousands of little pieces to pay the workers.
Just trying to show how simplistic examples don't work with economic subjects.
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