Top 10 Retweeted LGF Pages in February

LGF Pages being tweeted about
LGF • Views: 37,021

Since it’s the first of the month, I thought it might be interesting to run a quick script to determine which user-submitted LGF Pages have been most popular on Twitter, during the previous month of February. And without further ado, here are the top 10 results in reverse order:

#10 - 41 retweets, posted by Michael Orion Powell
The Crackpot World Of ‘Alternative Right’

#9 - 41 retweets, posted by Mickey_being_mickey
Alex Jones accuses Beck of stealing his material, and being used by the New World Order

#8 - 41 retweets, posted by Killgore Trout
Pamela Geller: CPAC has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood

#7 - 42 retweets, posted by Killgore Trout
White Supremacist Group at CPAC

#6 - 43 retweets, posted by philosophus invidius
Rush Limbaugh is Happy About My Impending Unemployment

#5 - 59 retweets, posted by Mickey_being_mickey
Glenn Beck dropped from the radio dial in Madison, WI

#4 - 65 retweets, posted by Randall Gross
Geert Wilders: Walk Like a Nazi, Quack like a Nazi…

#3 - 94 retweets, posted by Gus
Jim Hoft Blames Lara Logan For Her Sexual Assault

#2 - 153 retweets, posted by Gus
Another Day, Another Conservative Poll With Bad News For Scott Walker

#1 - 203 retweets, posted by Mickey_being_mickey
Glenn Beck: Wisconsin protests are the start of an American Insurrection

Jump to bottom

609 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:35:15pm

Mickey wins with a solid lead. Congratulations!

2 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:43:26pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

With you and Gus tied for second. Keep up the good work folks. :)

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:46:09pm

And by the way, we’re approaching another LGF milestone: at our current commenting rate, we’re going to see the nine millionth comment posted in about three weeks.

4 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:47:30pm

Fantastic work, lizards.

5 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:47:33pm

And in other news, Ben Bernanke says the “GOP proposed cut will cost 700,000 jobs” argument out forward by Moody’s economist Mark Zandi is in error:

Carrie Dann writes:Yesterday, we wrote about an estimate by Moody’s economist Mark Zandi, who projected that House Republicans’ proposed spending cuts could cost the American economy 700,000 jobs through 2012.

Today, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said that projection is overstated.

Testifying before the Senate Banking and Urban Affairs Committee Tuesday, Bernanke said that his analysis “doesn’t give a number that high” for job losses resulting from the GOP plan to eliminate $61 billion in government spending this year, adding that the cuts would only reduce growth “on the margin.”

Bernanke estimated the cuts would result in the reduction of “several tenths [of a percent] on GDP” – far less than the two percent projected in a recent report by Goldman Sachs.

A reduction in federal spending of “$60 billion to $100 billion is not sufficient to get to that level,” Bernanke said. “But it would, of course, have the effect of reducing growth on the margin, certainly.”

6 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:48:15pm

re: #3 Charles

And by the way, we’re approaching another LGF milestone: at our current commenting rate, we’re going to see the nine millionth comment posted in about three weeks.

Wow, that’s great!

So does the person who makes the 9 millionth post get a prize? Like a free flounce pass or a get out of timeout free card? ;o)

7 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:49:29pm

re: #6 CuriousLurker

Wow, that’s great!

So does the person who makes the 9 millionth post get a prize? Like a free flounce pass or a get out of timeout free card? ;o)

A toaster oven!

8 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:50:21pm

re: #7 austin_blue

A toaster oven!

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!

9 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:53:27pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon


Republicans, however, are pushing back, trying to discredit Zandi (who was an economic adviser to John McCain’s campaign), calling him the “chief architect” of the stimulus.

“When considering the latest study from Mark Zandi on the GOP’s efforts to rein in government spending, let’s not forget that he was the chief architect of the Democrats’ failed stimulus plan,” wrote Brian Patrick, a spokesman for Majority Leader Eric Cantor.


Heh. I’m not sure I’d trust Zandi’s assessment just from his comments on the stimulus. I’m not smart enough to fact check the economics of the proposal myself but I don’t think it’s reasonable to call the stimulus as a failure. There are plenty of reasonable criticisms but it definitely hasn’t failed.

10 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:53:57pm

re: #8 CuriousLurker

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!

Who wouldn’t?

Whack!!

11 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:54:07pm

Mickey_being_Mickey - who are you?!!

Congrats.

12 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:55:12pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Heh. I’m not sure I’d trust Zandi’s assessment just from his comments on the stimulus. I’m not smart enough to fact check the economics of the proposal myself but I don’t think it’s reasonable to call the stimulus as a failure. There are plenty of reasonable criticisms but it definitely hasn’t failed.

Zandi seems like a hyperbole-thrower to me. I’m not a fan of people like that, since there’s too much hyperbole floating around these days.

13 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:57:10pm

re: #3 Charles

And by the way, we’re approaching another LGF milestone: at our current commenting rate, we’re going to see the nine millionth comment posted in about three weeks.

We’re wonderfully irrelevant!!!

14 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:57:25pm

Congrats to all peeps with the top retweets!

15 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:58:26pm

Maybe they should start a Bullshit Credit Market, where they can invest/bet on memes and fund more disinformation through Mutual Bullshit Funds.

The Kochs can run a high value hedge fund.

16 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:59:09pm

9,000,000

(waves to stalkers)

17 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:59:21pm

re: #15 BigPapa

Maybe they should start a Bullshit Credit Market, where they can invest/bet on memes and fund more disinformation through Mutual Bullshit Funds.

The Kochs can run a high value hedge fund.

Survival Seeds.

18 Kid A  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:59:48pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

Survival Seeds.

Goldline.
/

19 TedStriker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:00:33pm

re: #8 CuriousLurker

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!

re: #10 austin_blue

Who wouldn’t?

Whack!!

The only downside to being Stinky is that, after BBQ’ing the trolls and socks, you have to dispose of their foul, rotting carcasses…doesn’t sound like it’d be too fun after a while.

Actually, it sounds like a job for Mike Rowe and Dirty Jobs…

;-P

20 compound idaho  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:02:10pm

re: #15 BigPapa

Maybe they should start a Bullshit Credit Market, where they can invest/bet on memes and fund more disinformation through Mutual Bullshit Funds.

The Kochs can run a high value hedge fund.

I took an exam in college where we were asked to estimate the total volume of bullshit produced in US each year. Last question on the exam worth 10%.

21 TedStriker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:02:32pm

re: #13 Varek Raith

We’re wonderfully irrelevant!!!

You know it has to eat the Stalkers and haters alive…it is “delicious cake”, as Anon (who, as a group, I despise) would say.

22 Kid A  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:02:54pm

#10 - 41 retweets, posted by Mickey_being_mickey

“Crackpot Right” doesn’t even begin to describe that one. Negro Fascism?? WTF??!!

23 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:03:50pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

And in other news, Ben Bernanke says the “GOP proposed cut will cost 700,000 jobs” argument out forward by Moody’s economist Mark Zandi is in error:

Never the less, the conclusion is similar. GOP policy will result in negative growth.

24 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:04:40pm

re: #23 prononymous

Never the less, the conclusion is similar. GOP policy will result in negative growth.

In terms of 2012, that might be a feature, not a bug.

25 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:05:41pm

re: #15 BigPapa

Maybe they should start a Bullshit Credit Market, where they can invest/bet on memes and fund more disinformation through Mutual Bullshit Funds.

The Kochs can run a high value hedge fund.

Well, Charles Koch used the Wall Street Journal’s OpEd page to make his case. Here it is:

Why Koch Industries Is Speaking Out

Years of tremendous overspending by federal, state and local governments have brought us face-to-face with an economic crisis. Federal spending will total at least $3.8 trillion this year—double what it was 10 years ago. And unlike in 2001, when there was a small federal surplus, this year’s projected budget deficit is more than $1.6 trillion.

Several trillions more in debt have been accumulated by state and local governments. States are looking at a combined total of more than $130 billion in budget shortfalls this year. Next year, they will be in even worse shape as most so-called stimulus payments end.

For many years, I, my family and our company have contributed to a variety of intellectual and political causes working to solve these problems. Because of our activism, we’ve been vilified by various groups. Despite this criticism, we’re determined to keep contributing and standing up for those politicians, like Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who are taking these challenges seriously.

Both Democrats and Republicans have done a poor job of managing our finances. They’ve raised debt ceilings, floated bond issues, and delayed tough decisions.

In spite of looming bankruptcy, President Obama and many in Congress have tiptoed around the issue of overspending by suggesting relatively minor cuts in mostly discretionary items. There have been few serious proposals for necessary cuts in military and entitlement programs, even though these account for about three-fourths of all federal spending.

Yes, some House leaders have suggested cutting spending to 2008 levels. But getting back to a balanced budget would mean a return to at least 2003 spending levels—and would still leave us with the problem of paying off our enormous debts.

I present this without editorial of my own. Let me know what you think.

26 avanti  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:06:34pm

re: #3 Charles

And by the way, we’re approaching another LGF milestone: at our current commenting rate, we’re going to see the nine millionth comment posted in about three weeks.

Liar, fake number, rigged, etc./ (Wait for it)

27 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:06:52pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Yes, MSNBC ran that headline earlier today, but the headline is somewhat misleading. Bernanke was quite clear that there would be job losses associated with cuts, just that the Fed’s analysis doesn’t come to the same number as 700,000.

In other words, just as mainstream economics has illustrated for many years, government spending increases the flow of money around the economy, thus stimulating activity (i.e., jobs.)

28 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:07:03pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Well, Charles Koch used the Wall Street Journal’s OpEd page to make his case. Here it is:

Why Koch Industries Is Speaking Out

I present this without editorial of my own. Let me know what you think.

Well, I could say what I think, but I don’t believe what I have to say would be very ladylike.

29 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:07:07pm

re: #19 talon_262

re: #10 austin_blue

The only downside to being Stinky is that, after BBQ’ing the trolls and socks, you have to dispose of their foul, rotting carcasses…doesn’t sound like it’d be too fun after a while.

Actually, it sounds like a job for Mike Rowe and Dirty Jobs…

;-P

I’ve heard that there is a secret crematorium underneath the Denver airport…

30 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:07:51pm

re: #29 austin_blue

I’ve heard that there is a secret crematorium underneath the Denver airport…

You heard wrong.
Here’s a check.
Shut up.
/

31 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:08:10pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

In terms of 2012, that might be a feature, not a bug.

I doubt it. It’s more a case of a need to cut while they have political momentum, with other concerns secondary. Spending has to be cut and to wait may not be feasible, since the best time economically may not be as good a time politically.

32 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:08:17pm

re: #20 compound idaho

I took an exam in college where we were asked to estimate the total volume of bullshit produced in US each year. Last question on the exam worth 10%.

In cubic yards or cubic miles?

Enquiring minds…

33 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:08:42pm

re: #32 austin_blue

In cubic yards or cubic miles?

Enquiring minds…

Cubic parsecs.

34 Kid A  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:09:07pm

This comment by theheat just caused me to spew the wine out of mouth onto my screen from laughing so bleeping hard. This was in reference to #9 about Jones accusing Beck of stealing his material.

“They’ve turned monkeys throwing shit at each other into high art. If this was dueling pistols or bare knuckles, would anyone really care who was left standing?”

That is hilarious!!! Sweet Jesus, I love this site!!!

35 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:09:17pm
Years of tremendous overspending by federal, state and local governments have brought us face-to-face with an economic crisis.


Sorry Mr. Goldenasshole Koch. That isn’t the source of the current recession.

36 researchok  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:09:23pm

OT,

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.- Tom Clancy

37 erraticsphinx  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:10:04pm

Wow, congratulations to everybody on the list.

And wow, it’s been a while since I’ve been here :)

38 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:10:11pm

re: #26 avanti

Liar, fake number, rigged, etc./ (Wait for it)

The Stalkers are so predicable. They’ll come after this thread in one of their typical hate-spews.

[waves to the Stalkers]

39 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:10:26pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

I doubt it. It’s more a case of a need to cut while they have political momentum, with other concerns secondary. Spending has to be cut and to wait may not be feasible, since the best time economically may not be as good a time politically.

…except that all these cuts now could bring the minimal recovery we having going now to a complete halt and then reverse things, which would result in even larger budget shortfalls in the future when the failing economy results in less revenue and when we need to spend more on safety net programs.

40 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:10:41pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon


I present this without editorial of my own. Let me know what you think.

Maybe if he spent the amount of $ on actual AGW research instead of PR denying it he would have a credible leg to stand on. Maybe half that $ spend on AGW issues and the other half on emerging clean energy technologies.

To flip a denialist tactic on him:

If he did the above, or some semblance of it, maybe we could trust his opinion on the budget issues and deficit of the US government. But since he’s completely dishonest, STFU and STFD. Not to mention he denied giving $ to Tea Party groups but funded Tea Party groups.

He has no credibility on ANY SUBJECT because he’s a fucking liar.

41 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:11:58pm

re: #8 CuriousLurker

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!

Now that would be fun.

42 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:13:55pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

I doubt it. It’s more a case of a need to cut while they have political momentum, with other concerns secondary. Spending has to be cut and to wait may not be feasible, since the best time economically may not be as good a time politically.

They have consistently overestimated their momentum, first in the lame duck and now in Wisconsin. As someone said here, if deficit reduction doesn’t include hits on defense and entitlements as well as tax increases, it’s bogus.

43 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:14:26pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Well, Charles Koch used the Wall Street Journal’s OpEd page to make his case. Here it is:

Why Koch Industries Is Speaking Out

I present this without editorial of my own. Let me know what you think.

I just wonder why they haven’t invested their HUGE tax savings over the last ten years in hiring Americans to do American work in America. I mean, lower taxes = job creation, right? Which is why they need more tax cuts?

Dear Koch Industries- what have you done for America lately?

44 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:14:46pm

re: #39 Simply Sarah

…except that all these cuts now could bring the minimal recovery we having going now to a complete halt and then reverse things, which would result in even larger budget shortfalls in the future when the failing economy results in less revenue and when we need to spend more on safety net programs.

It’s a risk, but I don’t see an alternative. If we wait, the public’s tolerance for spending cuts will disappear again. Some times you only have a limited window in which action on an issue is possible. That, BTW, is the essential meaning of Rahm Emannuel’s admonition to “never let a crisis go to waste”.

45 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:17:03pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon



. Too many businesses have successfully lobbied for special favors and treatment by seeking mandates for their products, subsidies (in the form of cash payments from the government), and regulations or tariffs to keep more efficient competitors at bay.

Crony capitalism is much easier than competing in an open market. But it erodes our overall standard of living and stifles entrepreneurs by rewarding the politically favored rather than those who provide what consumers want.


Heh, That’s funny from someone who has more politicians in his pocket than George Soros. I understand that businesses and labor interests contribute money in return for political favors. That’s life. He doesn’t make a particularly persuasive or honest case for his cause.

46 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:17:52pm

re: #44 Dark_Falcon

It’s a risk, but I don’t see an alternative. If we wait, the public’s tolerance for spending cuts will disappear again. Some times you only have a limited window in which action on an issue is possible. That, BTW, is the essential meaning of Rahm Emannuel’s admonition to “never let a crisis go to waste”.

I’d argue that with a stronger economy, a less ridiculous tax system, and some well-thought out spending cuts and adjustments, we could balance things. Easy? No. Painless? No. But it could be done.

The current plans from the GOP won’t actually solve any real systemic issues. It’s just part of their march towards shrinking government down to nothing by putting us further and further into debt.

47 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:18:13pm

re: #19 talon_262

re: #10 austin_blue

The only downside to being Stinky is that, after BBQ’ing the trolls and socks, you have to dispose of their foul, rotting carcasses…doesn’t sound like it’d be too fun after a while.

Actually, it sounds like a job for Mike Rowe and Dirty Jobs…

;-P

re: #29 austin_blue

I’ve heard that there is a secret crematorium underneath the Denver airport…

re: #30 Varek Raith

You heard wrong.
Here’s a check.
Shut up.
/

Hmm, VR sounds like he might know how to—*ahem*—“dispose” of any inconvenient carcasses. Of course, I don’t live to far form the Meadowlands, so in a pinch…

48 jaunte  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:18:20pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

I’m not sure Koch’s entirely accurate with this thought:

Our elected officials would do well to remember that the most prosperous countries are those that allow consumers—not governments—to direct the use of resources.

Top 10 in the 2010 Legatum Prosperity rankings:
1 Norway
2 Denmark
3 Finland
4 Australia
5 New Zealand
6 Sweden
7 Canada
8 Switzerland
9 Netherlands
10 United States
[Link: www.prosperity.com…]

49 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:18:27pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

The Stalkers are so predicable. They’ll come after this thread in one of their typical hate-spews.

[waves to the Stalkers]

Sign you’ve played too many video games: You hear the word “stalker” and immediately think of this:

Image: stalker_fa194_src.jpg

50 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:18:51pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Years of tremendous overspending by federal, state and local governments have brought us face-to-face with an economic crisis. Federal spending will total at least $3.8 trillion this year—double what it was 10 years ago. And unlike in 2001, when there was a small federal surplus, this year’s projected budget deficit is more than $1.6 trillion.

Several trillions more in debt have been accumulated by state and local governments. States are looking at a combined total of more than $130 billion in budget shortfalls this year. Next year, they will be in even worse shape as most so-called stimulus payments end (2).

For many years, I, my family and our company have contributed to a variety of intellectual and political causes working to solve these problems. Because of our activism, we’ve been vilified by various groups. Despite this criticism, we’re determined to keep contributing and standing up for those politicians, like Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who are taking these challenges seriously. (3)

Both Democrats and Republicans have done a poor job of managing our finances. They’ve raised debt ceilings, floated bond issues, and delayed tough decisions. (4)

In spite of looming bankruptcy, President Obama and many in Congress have tiptoed around the issue of overspending by suggesting relatively minor cuts in mostly discretionary items. There have been few serious proposals for necessary cuts in military and entitlement programs, even though these account for about three-fourths of all federal spending. (5)

Yes, some House leaders have suggested cutting spending to 2008 levels. But getting back to a balanced budget would mean a return to at least 2003 spending levels—and would still leave us with the problem of paying off our enormous debts.

1) You and your brother were conspicuously quiet for the past 8 years while your industries were getting all the perks and tax breaks they could swallow, even though spending and debt was soaring.

2) What do you mean, ‘so-called’ stimulus?

3) If Governor Walker were in fact taking debt and deficits seriously, he would not have added to them by giving more tax breaks. If he were taking them seriously, he would be doing something that would actually affect them, rather than saving pennies by attacking ideological opponents and giving away state assets to plutocrats.

4) True.

5) Also true. Yet for all this sudden concern about spending and debt, there is no mention of what it actually takes to reverse this, which would be spending cuts and tax increases. Transfer of wealth from middle class taxpayers to plutocrats, whether you use the government as an intermediary or not, does not fix this problem.

And, if I may editorialise for a moment, if you actually gave a shit about what was best for this great nation, you wouldn’t be spreading outright lies, fomenting divisive hatred and violence, and spreading sedition over a fucking three percent tax increase.

51 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:19:11pm

IMO, the solution to our debit is the same as if it were personal debit. Increase your income and reduce your spending. I think we should raise taxes and decrease spending.

Unfortunately, I doubt any party in America would agree to such a plan.

52 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:19:12pm

re: #8 CuriousLurker

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!

I wanna be Banksy.

53 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:20:37pm

re: #42 Decatur Deb

They have consistently overestimated their momentum, first in the lame duck and now in Wisconsin. As someone said here, if deficit reduction doesn’t include hits on defense and entitlements as well as tax increases, it’s bogus.

Same when union busting focuses on teachers and state employees, while not going for the 3rd rail Police & Fire.

54 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:20:39pm

Speaking of economics: I was caught off guard by having a short month. luckily my health insurance premium will clear with a little room to spare. Next month, maybe not. Stay tuned.

55 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:21:23pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

Bravo!

56 TedStriker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:21:27pm

re: #47 CuriousLurker

re: #29 austin_blue

re: #30 Varek Raith

Hmm, VR sounds like he might know how to—*ahem*—“dispose” of any inconvenient carcasses. Of course, I don’t live to far form the Meadowlands, so in a pinch…

Say hi to Jimmy Hoffa for us… ;-P

57 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:21:44pm

And all those replies were why I was careful not to take a position on the Koch editorial. I knew what Koch wrote was gonna get hit by every gun in the LGF arsenal, and I wanted to see if it holds up. So far, it not doing too well.

58 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:21:51pm

re: #51 prononymous

IMO, the solution to our debit is the same as if it were personal debit. Increase your income and reduce your spending. I think we should raise taxes and decrease spending.

Unfortunately, I doubt any party in America would agree to such a plan.

you are correct we politically can not have both… so I am going to go with B.

59 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:22:06pm

re: #56 talon_262

Say hi to Jimmy Hoffa for us… ;-P

Oh, he’s actually in…
Wait, are you a cop?

60 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:22:38pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Speaking of economics: I was caught off guard by having a short month. luckily my health insurance premium will clear with a little room to spare. Next month, maybe not. Stay tuned.

There were few things sweeter than those months with 3 bi-weekly paychecks.

61 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:22:57pm

re: #58 brookly red

you are correct we politically can not have both… so I am going to go with B.

Whatever that means.

62 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:22:59pm

re: #52 prairiefire

I wanna be Banksy.

Ha! Me too. I just watched “Exit Through the Gift Shop” a few weeks ago.

63 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:23:11pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Speaking of economics: I was caught off guard by having a short month. luckily my health insurance premium will clear with a little room to spare. Next month, maybe not. Stay tuned.

I hate February.

64 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:24:42pm

re: #52 prairiefire

I wanna be Stinky Beaumont for a day!


I wanna be Banksy.

I wanna be Natalie Portman

65 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:24:52pm

re: #49 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sign you’ve played too many video games: You hear the word “stalker” and immediately think of this:

Image: stalker_fa194_src.jpg

Kinda looks like Jersey. LOL

66 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:25:22pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I am not a hippie because of my need for dental insurance./ My root canal went from $1500 to a negotiated $1100, with my share being $261. An incredible savings. People can have a hard time coming up with that kind of cash without insurance.

67 Kruk  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:25:30pm

Jesus wept. I know we’ve already discussed Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin’s law criminalizing miscarriages, but this article makes it clear just how batshit the law really is.

A woman who miscarries is responsible for proving there was there was no ‘human involvement’ (in other words, the burden of proof falls on her rather than the state), and she could potentially face the death penalty of convicted.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Link: www.theroot.com…]

68 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:26:07pm

re: #65 CuriousLurker

Kinda looks like Jersey. LOL

Heh, I used to live near Oyster Creek nuclear facility.

69 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:26:34pm

re: #64 Alouette

I wanna be Banksy.

I wanna be Natalie Portman

No kidding. Did she look like Queen Esther in that purple gown? Yes.

70 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:27:01pm

re: #68 Varek Raith

Heh, I used to live near Oyster Creek nuclear facility.

did you eat the oysters?

71 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:27:50pm

Everybody please upding CL’s post two threads down.

72 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:27:55pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

And all those replies were why I was careful not to take a position on the Koch editorial. I knew what Koch wrote was gonna get hit by every gun in the LGF arsenal, and I wanted to see if it holds up. So far, it not doing too well.

Just because you knew most of us were going to attack it, why does that stop you having a position on it?

73 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:29:07pm

re: #69 prairiefire

I wanna be Natalie Portman

No kidding. Did she look like Queen Esther in that purple gown? Yes.

There are things I’d like to say about N. Portman but I want to live a little while longer. I’m 6’ tall 210lbs, my wife is 5’3” and %$^lbs, but she’s much bigger than me.

74 Kid A  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:29:16pm

re: #67 Kruk


Holy. Fucking. Shit. Is. Right.

75 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:29:59pm

re: #70 brookly red

did you eat the oysters?

You mean the glow-in-the-dark ones?

76 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:30:51pm

re: #74 Kid A

Holy. Fucking. Shit. Is. Right.

Once more.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.

77 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:31:15pm

re: #71 Alouette

Everybody please upding CL’s post two threads down.

Huh? I don’t even remember which one that was, but thanks!

*leaves to go check…*

78 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:31:26pm

re: #75 CuriousLurker

You mean the glow-in-the-dark ones?

It’s so cool when you start to shuck em and the light comes beaming out…

79 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:32:21pm

re: #67 Kruk

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!

80 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:32:23pm

re: #67 Kruk

Jesus wept. I know we’ve already discussed Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin’s law criminalizing miscarriages, but this article makes it clear just how batshit the law really is.

A woman who miscarries is responsible for proving there was there was no ‘human involvement’ (in other words, the burden of proof falls on her rather than the state), and she could potentially face the death penalty of convicted.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Link: www.theroot.com…]

This is one of those times where you need a vulgar adjective that doesn’t exist yet and end up settling for “WTF?”.

“Well it was the event in which our entire universe was created.”

“So what do we call it?”

“The…um…Big…Bang?”

81 Kid A  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:33:21pm

re: #77 CuriousLurker

Huh? I don’t even remember which one that was, but thanks!

*leaves to go check…*

You know what else I suspect really bothers some people (I mean the truly fringe-y racist ones)? The knowledge that his white mother slept with a black African man. That’s an old, old taboo. One that still lives in some places in the U.S.

Money quote. Well done.

82 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:33:37pm

re: #78 brookly red

It’s so cool when you start to shuck em and the light comes beaming out…

Can you also use them to warm your buns.

83 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:33:48pm

re: #66 prairiefire

I am not a hippie because of my need for dental insurance./ My root canal went from $1500 to a negotiated $1100, with my share being $261. An incredible savings. People can have a hard time coming up with that kind of cash without insurance.

I’ve contemplated adding dental coverage but I just can’t afford it. I can barely keep my regular health insurance. I’ve considered dropping it several times over the past few years because the premiums have gotten outrageous. I’m hanging on to it but just barely.

84 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:34:04pm

re: #80 prononymous

This is one of those times where you need a vulgar adjective that doesn’t exist yet and end up settling for “WTF?”.

“Well it was the event in which our entire universe was created.”

“So what do we call it?”

“The…um…Big…Bang?”

/just curious, what was there before the universe to bang in?

85 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:34:17pm

re: #72 Renaissance_Man

Just because you knew most of us were going to attack it, why does that stop you having a position on it?

Because while a lot of what he was saying was superficially attractive to me, it seemed a rather thin and not truly convincing. So i wanted to hear what people had to say about it.

86 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:35:00pm

re: #67 Kruk

Jesus wept. I know we’ve already discussed Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin’s law criminalizing miscarriages, but this article makes it clear just how batshit the law really is.

A woman who miscarries is responsible for proving there was there was no ‘human involvement’ (in other words, the burden of proof falls on her rather than the state), and she could potentially face the death penalty of convicted.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Link: www.theroot.com…]

OK, I knew about the insane part of needing to prove it wasn’t an abortion or the like, but I must have missed the death penalty part of it when I read the proposal the first time. I didn’t actually think it could be more outrageous than just the first part, but…*sighs*

87 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:35:02pm

re: #82 b_sharp

Can you also use them to warm your buns.

and if you drop your keys in the dark… no problem!

88 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:35:44pm

re: #84 brookly red

/just curious, what was there before the universe to bang in?

I’m not going to have this discussion with you. I value my time even while wasting it on the internet.

89 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:35:59pm

re: #71 Alouette

Everybody please upding CL’s post two threads down.

The Angry Black Man™ one? I’ll be darned, I thought maybe it was the firefighter one. Heh, I’ve kinda been on a roll with my righteous outrage ever since the “full Catholic” comment this morning. *sheepish grin*

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:36:13pm

re: #67 Kruk

My cousin, Wanda, would have been permanently damaged if someone had questioned her miscarriage. To this day, (35 years later) she mourns that child.

Shame on them.

91 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:36:32pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Because while a lot of what he was saying was superficially attractive to me, it seemed a rather thin and not truly convincing. So i wanted to hear what people had to say about it.

That was a very smart move on your part. It’s called “cover your ass.”

92 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:12pm

re: #89 CuriousLurker

The Angry Black Man™ one? I’ll be darned, I thought maybe it was the firefighter one. Heh, I’ve kinda been on a roll with my righteous outrage ever since the “full Catholic” comment this morning. *sheepish grin*

You do a very good righteous outrage, dear.

93 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:29pm

re: #88 prononymous

I’m not going to have this discussion with you. I value my time even while wasting it on the internet.

yes of course ;)

94 erraticsphinx  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:48pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It’s not about the fetus, or the embryo, or morality.

It’s about letting women know their proper place in the world.

95 TedStriker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:51pm

re: #64 Alouette

I wanna be Banksy.

I wanna be Natalie Portman

I wanna be with Natalie Portman…especially if she was petrified and covered in hot grits.

/ancient Slashdot humor

96 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:54pm

These sort of theocratic bills are popping up all over the place in state legislatures. In the past they would too, but rarely, and they’d get slapped down pretty quickly.

So far the more knowledgeable (about the law) among the right wing have been able to keep the hard right theocrats from proceeding with their agendas, but I wonder how much longer that will continue?

For example, in OK one of the many bills this year is one that would offer a ballot option on a change to the OK constitution the effect of which would make it legal for the state government to spend money on religious activities and organizations.

Yes, really. The outright blatant promotion of religion.

In direct conflict with the wording and intent of the US Constitution 1st Amendment.

Yet some OK Republican is pushing it.

I don’t see these sort of activities disappearing any time soon. Indeed, as the US transitions from our world dominance to being part of a multilateral world Americans will find their living standards under even more pressure, and that will cause even more social upheaval, which in turn will make the revanchist-atavist crowd even more vocal.

97 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:54pm

re: #67 Kruk

Thanks for linking to The Root.

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:37:58pm

re: #89 CuriousLurker

The Angry Black Man™ one? I’ll be darned, I thought maybe it was the firefighter one. Heh, I’ve kinda been on a roll with my righteous outrage ever since the “full Catholic” comment this morning. *sheepish grin*

Well, it was pretty good analysis. Keeping as calm as Obama does must really take a toll on him, but it really does take a weapon out of the hands of the assholes, and so he’s smart to do it.

99 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:38:09pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Because while a lot of what he was saying was superficially attractive to me, it seemed a rather thin and not truly convincing. So i wanted to hear what people had to say about it.

Looking for more information is a good thing.

100 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:38:17pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

ROFL! I just clicked on your new avatar pic.

101 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:38:28pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

That was a very smart move on your part. It’s called “cover your ass.”

Yep.

102 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:38:54pm

re: #93 brookly red

yes of course ;)

I know. I’m so predictable.

103 Kruk  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:39:18pm

re: #86 Simply Sarah

OK, I knew about the insane part of needing to prove it wasn’t an abortion or the like, but I must have missed the death penalty part of it when I read the proposal the first time. I didn’t actually think it could be more outrageous than just the first part, but…*sighs*

The link at Mother Jones makes it clear just how woman-hating this bill is:

[Link: motherjones.com…]

For me, this is the heart of the matter:

“Unless Franklin (who is not a health professional) invents a revolutionary intrauterine conception alarm system, it’s unclear how exactly the state of Georgia would enforce that rule other than holding all possibly-pregnant women under lock and key.”

Please don’t give these people ideas…

104 compound idaho  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:39:29pm

re: #48 jaunte

I’m not sure Koch’s entirely accurate with this thought:

Top 10 in the 2010 Legatum Prosperity rankings:
1 Norway
2 Denmark
3 Finland
4 Australia
5 New Zealand
6 Sweden
7 Canada
8 Switzerland
9 Netherlands
10 United States
[Link: www.prosperity.com…]

Hey, that site has the US Health care system as #1 in the world.

105 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:39:50pm

re: #44 Dark_Falcon

It’s a risk, but I don’t see an alternative. If we wait, the public’s tolerance for spending cuts will disappear again. Some times you only have a limited window in which action on an issue is possible. That, BTW, is the essential meaning of Rahm Emannuel’s admonition to “never let a crisis go to waste”.

I’ll call bullshit, DF. We are spending almost 40% more than we are collecting in revenue at the Fed level. If you took *all* of the “discretionary spending” (everything but Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security off the table), you’d have about 40% of the $3.8 trillion budget left, or $1.5 trillion. Of that, about half is military. If you axed all of the remaining budget, you would still be $750 billion in the hole.

So what would you lose?

All Air Traffic Control funding.
All transportation funding.
Title 8 housing for the poor.
Aid for Women with Infant Children.
Food stamps.
Unemployment benefits.
All Federal R&D funding.
All agriculture funds.
All National Park funding.
All Federal court funding.
The FBI.
The CIA.
The NSA.
NOAA.
NASA.
The National Weather Service.
The Coast Guard.
FEMA.
The Army Corps of Engineers.

The problem isn’t Federal programs. The problem is income.

Here’s a history of marginal tax rates:

[Link: blog.pappastax.com…]

So Reagan dropped the top marginal tax rate by a whopping 42% over 8 years. Guess what? It didn’t sufficient income to pay for two wars and an economic meltdown caused by bank deregulation.

So the solution is to lower taxes on the rich?

Really?

106 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:40:00pm

re: #102 prononymous

I know. I’m so predictable.

/turkey sandwich for lunch every day for 40 years…

107 jaunte  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:40:11pm

re: #104 compound idaho

Some commenters are disputing that ranking, too.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:40:12pm

re: #86 Simply Sarah

OK, I knew about the insane part of needing to prove it wasn’t an abortion or the like, but I must have missed the death penalty part of it when I read the proposal the first time. I didn’t actually think it could be more outrageous than just the first part, but…*sighs*

Doesn’t the burden of proof falling on the accused violate some basic principals of Anglo-American law?

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:41:53pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My cousin, Wanda, would have been permanently damaged if someone had questioned her miscarriage. To this day, (35 years later) she mourns that child.

Shame on them.

That’s yet another aspect of why this is so horrible. I’ve known women to feel terrible grief about losing even a very early pregnancy. Having the law come knocking to find out if you reeeeaaallly lost that baby by accident is just…

Agh.

110 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:42:13pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Doesn’t the burden of proof falling on the accused violate some basic principals of Anglo-American law?

exactly why the law could never pass…

111 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:42:21pm

re: #103 Kruk

The link at Mother Jones makes it clear just how woman-hating this bill is:

[Link: motherjones.com…]

For me, this is the heart of the matter:

“Unless Franklin (who is not a health professional) invents a revolutionary intrauterine conception alarm system, it’s unclear how exactly the state of Georgia would enforce that rule other than holding all possibly-pregnant women under lock and key.”

Please don’t give these people ideas…

Oh, the bill is absolutely not grounded in reality and would have no chance in hell of actually standing up to any sort of legal scrutiny even were it to somehow pass into law. That’s not the point of it (Well, maybe it is for him, as this guy seems to be a pretty serious crackpot). It’s just another step in the War on Women (And responsible men that support women).

112 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:42:24pm

re: #67 Kruk

Jesus wept. I know we’ve already discussed Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin’s law criminalizing miscarriages, but this article makes it clear just how batshit the law really is.

A woman who miscarries is responsible for proving there was there was no ‘human involvement’ (in other words, the burden of proof falls on her rather than the state), and she could potentially face the death penalty of convicted.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Link: www.theroot.com…]

Fortunately, there is this response to Mr. Franklin:

[Link: www.feministe.us…]

113 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:43:01pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Doesn’t the burden of proof falling on the accused violate some basic principals of Anglo-American law?

Yes. This law would never survive a court challenge, event in the Georgia state courts. Of course, that’s probably part of the plan: Make the judges strike the law down and then thump your chest and whine about how “godless” the system is.

114 TedStriker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:43:08pm

re: #81 Kid A

You know what else I suspect really bothers some people (I mean the truly fringe-y racist ones)? The knowledge that his white mother slept with a black African man. That’s an old, old taboo. One that still lives in some places in the U.S.

Money quote. Well done.

Exactly…it wouldn’t matter to the bigots and racists if Obama’s folks were both American citizens, born and bred. Because his dad was black, that automatically make Obama an “other”, worthy of disdain and derision (and worse); Senior being a Kenyan was icing on the cake for them.

*spit*

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:43:21pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Sickens me.

I was very young, but, even I understood that she was anguished beyond description.

116 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:43:41pm

re: #110 brookly red

exactly why the law could never pass…

Oh, it could pass. It wouldn’t stand in court, but it could pass.

117 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:44:18pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

Yes. This law would never survive a court challenge, event in the Georgia state courts. Of course, that’s probably part of the plan: Make the judges strike the law down and then thump your chest and whine about how “godless” the system is.

Well, the system is godless.

118 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:44:42pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Well, the system is godless.

Thank god for that!

119 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:45:03pm

re: #67 Kruk

What a piece of shit. That man is a disgrace. He’s not human he’s the devolution of a worm. May he rot in hell.

I feel so angry right now.

By the way, I the first two words of my nic are now redundant. A way to change it?

120 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:45:12pm

re: #116 Simply Sarah

Oh, it could pass. It wouldn’t stand in court, but it could pass.

either way it isn’t going to happen

121 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:46:00pm

re: #119 ProLifeLiberal

What a piece of shit. That man is a disgrace. He’s not human he’s the devolution of a worm. May he rot in hell.

I feel so angry right now.

By the way, I the first two words of my nic are now redundant. A way to change it?

yes but it is a bit… painful.

122 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:46:16pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

… and then thump your chest and whine about how “godless” the system is.

Or, like they’re doing in Iowa and pushing out their Supreme Court justices who correctly rule on the law but ruffle the feathers.

123 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:47:01pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Well, the system is godless.

I’d call it “neutral on matters of religion”, thus it does not deal with matters relating to the existence of God at all. But it is a good thing that it does not deal in such matters.

124 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:47:50pm

re: #104 compound idaho

Hey, that site has the US Health care system as #1 in the world.

You reminded me of this epic video - We’re #37

Youtube Video
125 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:47:54pm

re: #122 freetoken

Or, like they’re doing in Iowa and pushing out their Supreme Court justices who correctly rule on the law but ruffle the feathers.

I’m still depressed over that. It made a mockery out of the idea of an independent state judiciary.

126 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:49:47pm

re: #121 brookly red

???

If it’s really bad, I’ll just keep it, as a sign of having evolved politically.

I’m real irritated by the Republicans right now. Apparently, me and my dad (who now get along better) are rubbing off on each other politically, from what the rest of the family is telling me. He’s going more the left, and I’m becoming more bitter at the Republicans. It doesn’t help that this is going on in the nation.

127 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:50:05pm

re: #110 brookly red

exactly why the law could never pass…

JOBS! Oh no, let’s waste everyone’s time instead.

128 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:50:51pm

re: #122 freetoken

Or, like they’re doing in Iowa and pushing out their Supreme Court justices who correctly rule on the law but ruffle the feathers.

How are they doing that?

129 Kruk  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:52:14pm

re: #112 austin_blue

Fortunately, there is this response to Mr. Franklin:

[Link: www.feministe.us…]

Heh. I wonder if that plan is limited to women. I’m sure men could send Rep. Franklin evidence of nightly genocide…

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:52:33pm

re: #110 brookly red

exactly why the law could never pass…

It won’t pass, and if it did pass it would not stand.

But it’s not just a vanity piece, it’s a shot across the bow.

131 Firstinla  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:52:34pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

ballot box

132 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:53:25pm

Like I said the other day, Franklin and anybody who supports that bill isn’t considering the ways that Democrats could twist it to their advantage. What happens if the majority of miscarriages are ruled as “preventable,” either through earlier detection of problems that was impossible due to lack of health insurance or due to poor diet due to the mother not having access to healthier (read: more expensive) foods? Once you start treating a fetus as a “person” for the purposes of outlawing abortion, you start bringing into question what obligation the state has to that “person.”

133 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:53:59pm

Back on topic: Please don’t be shy about pimping your page postings in the comments section. LGF is quite expansive these days and it’s hard for people to follow the thread, and the pages and the comments, etc. The Master spy is a nice tool but not everybody uses it. There’s a lot of great pages being posted that don’t get enough attention.

134 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:54:03pm

Apparently, Christchurch isn’t getting a break. From Wikipedia

A dust storm hits Christchurch, New Zealand hampering the recovery efforts from the 2011 Canterbury earthquake.

This is the source.

I think Mother Nature should take her foot off the pedal. The place has suffered enough, and New Zealand is going to have the scars of this for a long time.

135 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:54:19pm

re: #126 ProLifeLiberal

???

If it’s really bad, I’ll just keep it, as a sign of having evolved politically.

I’m real irritated by the Republicans right now. Apparently, me and my dad (who now get along better) are rubbing off on each other politically, from what the rest of the family is telling me. He’s going more the left, and I’m becoming more bitter at the Republicans. It doesn’t help that this is going on in the nation.

better to keep it, the procedure is complicated & the risk of complications is high. But if you wish we can just refer to you as PLL…

136 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:54:40pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

How are they doing that?

In Iowa, their supreme court justices face an election to keep their seat.

Last year, the gay-hating group led (in part) by the guy who is now trying to take over the Iowa caucus process succeeded in getting three of the justices off the bench (the other justices were not on the ballot - it’s staggered.)

All over the ruling that the Iowa constitution protects gay people who want to enter a matrimonial relationship.

So, instead of changing the constitution (which is a harder process) they opted for booting the judges, who had made what legal experts think was an accurate ruling.

137 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:55:15pm

(Robert F. Kennedy Jr. via Huffington Post via eschaton):

“Canada regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada’s right wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news.

Canada’s Radio Act requires that “a licenser may not broadcast….any false or misleading news.” The provision has kept Fox News and right wing talk radio out of Canada and helped make Canada a model for liberal democracy and freedom. As a result of that law, Canadians enjoy high quality news coverage including the kind of foreign affairs and investigative journalism that flourished in this country before Ronald Reagan abolished the “Fairness Doctrine” in 1987. Political dialogue in Canada is marked by civility, modesty, honesty, collegiality, and idealism that have pretty much disappeared on the U.S. airwaves. When Stephen Harper moved to abolish anti-lying provision of the Radio Act, Canadians rose up to oppose him fearing that their tradition of honest non partisan news would be replaced by the toxic, overtly partisan, biased and dishonest news coverage familiar to American citizens who listen to Fox News and talk radio. Harper’s proposal was timed to facilitate the launch of a new right wing network, “Sun TV News” which Canadians call “Fox News North.”

which reminds me once again of fox nudes’ successful defense against a lawsuit claiming that it was lying - which was that it is not against the law in this country to lie on teevee

138 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:55:27pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Doesn’t the burden of proof falling on the accused violate some basic principals of Anglo-American law?

Well, that can get a bit sticky in some cases, but for something like this? Yes. Even if you were to ignore the issues with what he’s proposing to criminalize, the placing of the burden of proof on the woman would be like saying that every death not directly observed by the doctor was going to be considered a murder until (And unless) proven otherwise. It would be madness. “Oh, your 98 year-old father died at home? Prove that you didn’t smother him in his sleep!”

139 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:55:38pm

re: #129 Kruk

Heh. I wonder if that plan is limited to women. I’m sure men could send Rep. Franklin evidence of nightly genocide…

It doesn’t matter. Either way I am going to send him a jar full of my victims.

140 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:55:57pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

It won’t pass, and if it did pass it would not stand.

But it’s not just a vanity piece, it’s a shot across the bow.

that it might be, yes.

141 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:56:36pm

re: #136 freetoken

In Iowa, their supreme court justices face an election to keep their seat.

Last year, the gay-hating group led (in part) by the guy who is now trying to take over the Iowa caucus process succeeded in getting three of the justices off the bench (the other justices were not on the ballot - it’s staggered.)

All over the ruling that the Iowa constitution protects gay people who want to enter a matrimonial relationship.

So, instead of changing the constitution (which is a harder process) they opted for booting the judges, who had made what legal experts think was an accurate ruling.

Thank you for the explanation.

142 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:56:46pm

re: #81 Kid A

You know what else I suspect really bothers some people (I mean the truly fringe-y racist ones)? The knowledge that his white mother slept with a black African man. That’s an old, old taboo. One that still lives in some places in the U.S.

Money quote. Well done.

worked in South Carolina - say as recently as 11 years ago.

143 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:57:36pm

re: #135 brookly red

That’s fine. PLL is good.

re: #137 engineer dog

I like that idea for a law. Get it over here. Quickly, if possible.

144 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:57:36pm

re: #134 ProLifeLiberal

Apparently, Christchurch isn’t getting a break. From Wikipedia

This is the source.

I think Mother Nature should take her foot off the pedal. The place has suffered enough, and New Zealand is going to have the scars of this for a long time.

well, mother nature is not a respecter of persons…

145 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:58:11pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s yet another aspect of why this is so horrible. I’ve known women to feel terrible grief about losing even a very early pregnancy. Having the law come knocking to find out if you reeeaaallly lost that baby by accident is just…

Agh.

Evil. That’s the word you’re looking for. It really is. No hyperbola for once.

146 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:58:14pm

re: #39 Simply Sarah

…except that all these cuts now could bring the minimal recovery we having going now to a complete halt and then reverse things, which would result in even larger budget shortfalls in the future when the failing economy results in less revenue and when we need to spend more on safety net programs.

The Tory govt in the UK is cutting hard and fast - our economy is shrinking again.

147 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:58:35pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for the explanation.

On top of that, they’re already planning on going after the other four. I mean, if that’s really how they want to go about things, they might as well just repeal their god damn constitution, since apparently it doesn’t really mean anything.

148 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:58:43pm

She Who Must Be obeyed is home from rehearsal. Good night all!

And really, read this:

Sweet Dre[Link: www.feministe.us…]

It is fucking hilarious.

“my uterus is a serial killer…”

149 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:59:06pm

re: #139 prononymous

It doesn’t matter. Either way I am going to send him a jar full of my victims.

Heh, wait till he gets the tampons.

150 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:59:28pm

re: #137 engineer dog

(Robert F. Kennedy Jr. via Huffington Post via eschaton):

“Canada regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada’s right wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news.

Canada’s Radio Act requires that “a licenser may not broadcast…any false or misleading news.” The provision has kept Fox News and right wing talk radio out of Canada and helped make Canada a model for liberal democracy and freedom. As a result of that law, Canadians enjoy high quality news coverage including the kind of foreign affairs and investigative journalism that flourished in this country before Ronald Reagan abolished the “Fairness Doctrine” in 1987. Political dialogue in Canada is marked by civility, modesty, honesty, collegiality, and idealism that have pretty much disappeared on the U.S. airwaves. When Stephen Harper moved to abolish anti-lying provision of the Radio Act, Canadians rose up to oppose him fearing that their tradition of honest non partisan news would be replaced by the toxic, overtly partisan, biased and dishonest news coverage familiar to American citizens who listen to Fox News and talk radio. Harper’s proposal was timed to facilitate the launch of a new right wing network, “Sun TV News” which Canadians call “Fox News North.”

which reminds me once again of fox nudes’ successful defense against a lawsuit claiming that it was lying - which was that it is not against the law in this country to lie on teevee

Actually, as I understand it, Fox is in Canada these days, or at lest parts of it. And RFK Jr’s pining for the Fairness Doctrine makes me ill. Things were not very honest back in the day down here. Its just that people didn’t really see the liberal bias of the news outlets.

151 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 7:59:57pm

re: #149 Stanley Sea

Heh, wait till he gets the tampons.

Oh, dear.
Just wait until the channers do something…
:/

152 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:00:41pm

re: #143 ProLifeLiberal

That’s fine. PLL is good.

re: #137 engineer dog

I like that idea for a law. Get it over here. Quickly, if possible.

Not possible. There’s a First Amendment issue with it. It wouldn’t survive a constitutional challenge.

153 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:01:32pm

re: #146 wozzablog

The Tory govt in the UK is cutting hard and fast - our economy is shrinking again.

Hang on!

154 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:01:46pm

re: #146 wozzablog

The Tory govt in the UK is cutting hard and fast - our economy is shrinking again.

And the Lib Dems have probably doomed themselves to extinction by going with them along in that coalition.

155 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:02:03pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Oh, dear.
Just wait until the channers do something…
:/

I hope they don’t really get that stupid. The postal service would react very badly to a blood-borne pathogen threat.

156 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:02:28pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

I hope they don’t really get that stupid. The postal service would react very badly to a blood-borne pathogen threat.

They are that stupid.
Hence my :/

157 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:02:49pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Not possible. There’s a First Amendment issue with it. It wouldn’t survive a constitutional challenge.

Ah, but lies are not legally protected first amendment speech. If they were, we could not have libel/slander laws.

158 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:03:20pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

Actually, as I understand it, Fox is in Canada these days, or at lest parts of it. And RFK Jr’s pining for the Fairness Doctrine makes me ill. Things were not very honest back in the day down here. Its just that people didn’t really see the liberal bias of the news outlets.

anything people say will seem “biased” to somebody, D_F

actual lying is different

159 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:03:23pm

re: #146 wozzablog

Miliband is leader of the Labour Party right? When do you think the next election will be held, and how will it work out for Labour?

160 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:03:41pm

re: #154 Simply Sarah

And the Lib Dems have probably doomed themselves to extinction by going with them along in that coalition.

Yup. Damn shame really as there was potential there for a decent centre left party. The membership is still very much left of centre, but the higherups are old fashioned one nation Tories dragging the party to extinction.

Labour are going left again - leading in some polls - and picking up disenfranchised liberals.

161 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:04:17pm

G’night Gnarly newts.

162 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:04:53pm

‘Nite, all.

163 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:04:56pm

re: #139 prononymous

It doesn’t matter. Either way I am going to send him a jar full of my victims.

re: #149 Stanley Sea

Heh, wait till he gets the tampons.

LOL, you guys are so wicked. I’m sleepy, so I guess I’m gonna go hit the sack (and hope I don’t dream about jars full of…icky stuff).

G’nite, Lizards.

164 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:05:26pm

re: #160 wozzablog

Yup. Damn shame really as there was potential there for a decent centre left party. The membership is still very much left of centre, but the higherups are old fashioned one nation Tories dragging the party to extinction.

Labour are going left again - leading in some polls - and picking up disenfranchised liberals.

Meet the New New Labour, same as the old Labour.
/

165 brookly red  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:05:35pm

re: #161 b_sharp

G’night Gnarly newts.

re: #162 Decatur Deb

‘Nite, all.

make it 3…

166 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:06:15pm

re: #164 Simply Sarah

Meet the New New Labour, same as the old Labour.
/

Except newer! In an old fashioned kind of way!

167 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:06:16pm

re: #158 engineer dog

anything people say will seem “biased” to somebody, D_F

actual lying is different

All I’m saying is that I found Kennedy’s post unconvincing. But I think that about everything RFK Jr. says.

168 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:06:30pm

re: #159 ProLifeLiberal

Miliband is leader of the Labour Party right? When do you think the next election will be held, and how will it work out for Labour?

Ed Milliband is now leader, he beat his brother David with the help of union votes.

Next election could be almost anytime due to the nature of the coallition government - but if they hold it together i would say about 3 years away.

If the Tories destroy local government & public services like they did during the 80’s labour should sweep back in on a platform to the left of what they ran on in ‘97 (which was, in british terms, centre right in and of itself).

169 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:06:47pm

re: #161 b_sharp

re: #162 Decatur Deb

re: #163 CuriousLurker

Good night! Don’t let the Aedes aegypti bite.

170 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:06:48pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Not possible. There’s a First Amendment issue with it. It wouldn’t survive a constitutional challenge.

i tend to doubt that

171 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:09:58pm

re: #157 wlewisiii

Ah, but lies are not legally protected first amendment speech. If they were, we could not have libel/slander laws.

Well, it’s not quite that simple. Lies, in and of themselves, are not a 1st Amendment exception. There are certain standards that much be reached before a lie is considered libel/slander/etc. and becomes no longer protected by the Free Speech Clause. Those standards actually tend to set a pretty damn high bar to clear before something is considered unprotected.

172 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:11:15pm

“She’s (Palin) got facebook accounts up the twitter.”

- John Stewart

173 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:12:26pm

re: #172 stevemcg

“She’s (Palin) got facebook accounts up the twitter.”

- John Stewart

LOL

174 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:13:15pm

re: #171 Simply Sarah

Well, it’s not quite that simple. Lies, in and of themselves, are not a 1st Amendment exception. There are certain standards that much be reached before a lie is considered libel/slander/etc. and becomes no longer protected by the Free Speech Clause. Those standards actually tend to set a pretty damn high bar to clear before something is considered unprotected.

i’m way out of my area of competence here, but i think primarily the first amendment guarantees that you can’t be silenced. it doesn’t guarantee that there won’t be consequences for what you say

175 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:14:53pm

re: #168 wozzablog

Ed Milliband is now leader, he beat his brother David with the help of union votes.

Next election could be almost anytime due to the nature of the coallition government - but if they hold it together i would say about 3 years away.

If the Tories destroy local government & public services like they did during the 80’s labour should sweep back in on a platform to the left of what they ran on in ‘97 (which was, in british terms, centre right in and of itself).

[eyeroll] When Conservatives act to clean up the financial messes the left leaves behind, we get called “heartless” and “destructive” when all we’re doing is fixing what you guys broke. Stop spending money on things you can’t afford and conservatives won’t have to make cuts like that.

176 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:16:13pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Aren’t conservatives the ones who spent all the money on things we can’t afford?

177 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:17:34pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

[eyeroll] When Conservatives act to clean up the financial messes the left leaves behind, we get called “heartless” and “destructive” when all we’re doing is fixing what you guys broke. Stop spending money on things you can’t afford and conservatives won’t have to make cuts like that.

funny, D_F, we “leftists” tend to think exactly the same thing about having to fix the messes that conservatives leave behind. fiscal messes. very expensive ones

178 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:18:40pm

re: #174 engineer dog

i’m way out of my area of competence here, but i think primarily the first amendment guarantees that you can’t be silenced. it doesn’t guarantee that there won’t be consequences for what you say

Well, pretty much. It limits the government’s (Federal and then state through the 14th Amendment) ability to block or punish speech, which includes tort law. Outside the public realm, however, it generally doesn’t apply. This is why private companies can limit what employees say (Within some bounds) and why on a private site like LGF, Charles is free to delete comments he feels are inappropriate (Or doesn’t like or at random) or ban users.

179 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:19:03pm

re: #176 stevemcg

Aren’t conservatives the ones who spent all the money on things we can’t afford?

Nope. We’re not the ones who set up unsustainable pension schemes and then got union money as kickbacks. Nor are we the ones who support multi-billion dollar “stimulus” boondoggles.

180 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:19:54pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

[eyeroll] When Conservatives act to clean up the financial messes the left leaves behind, we get called “heartless” and “destructive” when all we’re doing is fixing what you guys broke. Stop spending money on things you can’t afford and conservatives won’t have to make cuts like that.

And the two wars that we’ve sold our ass out to foreign interests to fund? Were those also due to liberals spending money on what they can’t afford?

181 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:21:05pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

When you have a deficit, and you cut taxes even more. That is, in essence, spending money you don’t have.

182 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:21:11pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

[eyeroll] When Conservatives act to clean up the financial messes the left leaves behind, we get called “heartless” and “destructive” when all we’re doing is fixing what you guys broke. Stop spending money on things you can’t afford and conservatives won’t have to make cuts like that.

Well, in many cases we could afford these things if the right didn’t handcuff the ability of the government to raise the funds to pay for them.

183 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:22:17pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

Nope. We’re not the ones who set up unsustainable pension schemes and then got union money as kickbacks. Nor are we the ones who support multi-billion dollar “stimulus” boondoggles.

Medicare Part D? The Iraq war? Cutting taxes during a war? Who’s kicking back to whom?

184 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:22:55pm

Look at all them letfy tax breaks the oil industry gets!

185 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:23:32pm

re: #180 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Liberals would not have funded Afghanistan? Iraq I can see as a bad idea but the whole Homeland Security thing, TSA, unlimited help to numerous governments to help fight terrorists… Lots of money there.

186 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:23:46pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

Nope. We’re not the ones who set up unsustainable pension schemes and then got union money as kickbacks. Nor are we the ones who support multi-billion dollar “stimulus” boondoggles.

could you compare those costs to what w borrowed to pay for iraq/pakistan, and how much money we decided to not collect in taxes because of his tax cuts, to these items you’re citing?

shouldn’t you also be incensed that w signed the bill to spend all of that money bailing out wall st? can giving 800 billion dollars to a bunch of stockbrokers and suchlike somehow be thought of as a progressive welfare scheme?

187 recusancy  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:23:46pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

Nope. We’re not the ones who set up unsustainable pension schemes and then got union money as kickbacks. Nor are we the ones who support multi-billion dollar “stimulus” boondoggles.

No. You’re the ones who cut taxes for the wealthy and gave away no bid contracts to your buddies and got kick backs.

188 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:23:56pm

re: #182 Simply Sarah

Well, in many cases we could afford these things if the right didn’t handcuff the ability of the government to raise the funds to pay for them.

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

189 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:24:05pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

[eyeroll] When Conservatives act to clean up the financial messes the left leaves behind, we get called “heartless” and “destructive” when all we’re doing is fixing what you guys broke. Stop spending money on things you can’t afford and conservatives won’t have to make cuts like that.

Good grief, don’t for a second think i liked the last mob. Blair and his cronies were not Labour politicians, he maintained a couple of old hands as fig leaves but he was running an instinctively private enterprise focussed centre-right administration.
The projects to rebuild schools and hospitals were all handed to private firms (who cost more and ran late), the tax rates on the wealthiest remained lower than could have been expected (impacting revenues), they instituted massively beaurocratic systems to handle benefits payments and subsidise low pay from companies (our minimum wage is nowhere near a living wage without added tax breaks - unless you still live at home).

They fetishised private fleeting equity over solid public assetts, they did not tighten regulations on the financial institutions, Gordon Brown said the economic cycle was gone forever (no one should be allowed in public life after they say something idiotic like that).

So - i have very little, if any love, for the last lot.

HOWEVER - the current cuts are based on lies and propaganda. The Tories talked down the economy, bulshitted the public into believing we would be the next greece/ireland or Iceland when our tax base was far more solid and the public assetts and terms of our debts are in no way comparable.

190 jaunte  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:24:25pm

Conservative budget ju-jitsu:

Even as Perry requested the Recovery Act money, he railed against it. On the very same day he asked for the funds, he set up a petition titled “No Government Bailouts.”
[Link: money.cnn.com…]

Texas Used Stimulus to Cover 97% of Its Deficit

191 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:24:50pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, because cutting welfare to those who need it, along with assistance with tuition assistance works out so well for nations.

Ever notice that the recession didn’t hit Sweden and Finland nearly as hard as many more conservative nations?

Also, when it comes to stimulus, most of it was done through the not as effective tax cut. What we really need is infrastructure revamping. Probably because most of it is old at this point.

We have to raise taxes eventually. The nation is falling apart, and that takes money to fix. The US must also recognize that Reagan set us down this track, through is dumb as a rock economic policies. The Republican party since Reagan has put us into this mess. Nixon was a far better president than he was.

192 recusancy  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:25:13pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

Do you have any data to back that up at all?? You don’t.

193 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:25:33pm

re: #184 Varek Raith

Look at all them letfy tax breaks the oil industry gets!

Hell, doesn’t stop at tax breaks and subsidies. How much of our military presence in the Middle East is to ensure that the spice…er, oil keeps flowing? Or the infrastructure, from harbors to highways, that they use to move their product from the ground to the gas pump? They pay a pittance and reap a fortune, courtesy of our tax dollars.

194 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:26:31pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

Which is why the economy was is such terrible shape in the late 40s, 50s, and 60s. right?

195 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:26:57pm

re: #183 stevemcg

Medicare Part D? The Iraq war? Cutting taxes during a war? Who’s kicking back to whom?

the thing that pisses me off about w’s medicare drug scheme was that it specifically forbids the federal government to negotiate down the cost of the drugs it buys. i firmly believe this was done to stanch the flow of more cheaply available drugs - the same drugs - from canada

so i think of it as the Guaranteed Super High Profits For American Drug Manufacturers Sucked Out Of The Pockets Of American Taxpayers Act

and it was republicans that did that

you should be angry about that, D_F

196 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:27:10pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

A higher population and shifting demographics mean more people than ever before are in the lowest wage brackets as a percentage of tax payers.

A higher proportion of the wealth is going to the top 10% and the system should be adjusted accordingly.

Whats unfair about that?

197 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:27:12pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

Not always. As usual, rigid thinking doesn’t serve well here. The truth is more complex. The effect of taxes on growth depends on more factors than just the tax rate.

198 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:27:15pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

incorrect

199 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:28:43pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

And, really, I don’t see why “small” or “big” government is even something that matters. What I care about is a government that does what needs to be done in the best interests of and for the good of people, regardless of whatever “size” it may take.

200 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:28:54pm

re: #191 ProLifeLiberal

The Republican party since Reagan has put us into this mess. Nixon was a far better president than he was.

I hated that rat bastard Nixon but this - this is QFT.

201 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:28:56pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

is that what happened in the 1990s? no

when w lowered taxes in the 2000s was there improved growth and smaller government? no

202 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:29:33pm

re: #185 Rightwingconspirator

Liberals would not have funded Afghanistan? Iraq I can see as a bad idea but the whole Homeland Security thing, TSA, unlimited help to numerous governments to help fight terrorists… Lots of money there.

I have to question how much of the drive to go to war with Afghanistan was to get the terrorists and how much of it was simply the lashing out at what we considered a target for our anger and hatred? We’ve certainly not done the Afghani people any favors, replacing the Taliban with a growing kleptocracy, kept in power solely through access to our military hardware and our manpower. And Al-Q certainly seems to be in no danger of disappearing into the dustbin of history anytime soon.

203 zora  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:07pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man


you should procreate, alot. somebody should be working on making more just like you.

204 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:27pm

re: #199 Simply Sarah

And, really, I don’t see why “small” or “big” government is even something that matters. What I care about is a government that does what needs to be done in the best interests of and for the good of people, regardless of whatever “size” it may take.

exactly

the purpose of government is not to make a profit

it’s more important to do the things that society needs to get done than to balance the budget

205 Mickey_being_mickey  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:32pm

Some say I’m is illegal in 17 U.S. states, and that for some reason, I’m allergic to the Dutch… all I know is, number 9 and number 10 have the credit for the posting backwards.

Man, you go away for an extended weekend and then you find out you had the most retweeted page on here. Well here’s hoping nutjobs like Glenn Beck keep delivering up their insane ramblings.

206 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:38pm

re: #203 zora

Is that a proposition?

207 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:42pm

re: #197 prononymous

When revenues increase spending is increased. Reagan, Clinton, they all let that happen. Except perhaps Bush 41 who traded tax increases for a deal to limit (not cut) spending. The fact is overall, that both parties overspend. What is different is not the overspending, just what it gets spent on.

Oh and can we please remember that congress spends, Presidents can only sign off, veto, or bully pulpit.

208 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:30:58pm

re: #200 wlewisiii

I hated that rat bastard Nixon but this - this is QFT.

Nixon had a hell of a lot of issues, but, looking at the historical records, he seemed to be a pretty reasonable administrator when he wasn’t caught up in something slimy.

209 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:31:32pm

re: #200 wlewisiii

I can’t really hate him after learning about him a little bit. He seems to have been someone with some sort of mental disorder who needed medicine, like I do. If were around today, there would be all kinds of things to help.

I distinctly remember someone on here a while ago speculating that he might have been autistic. At least, I thought it was on here (LGF overall).

210 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:31:58pm

re: #194 Simply Sarah

Which is why the economy was is such terrible shape in the late 40s, 50s, and 60s. right?

From the end of WWII til the Kennedy tax cuts, the top bracket was resting around 91%. I’ve not heard any historian say that that period of America’s history was anything other than one of great economic prosperity and wealth. How is that possible if anything above 39.6% will lead to economic ruination?

211 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:32:00pm

re: #203 zora

you should procreate, alot. somebody should be working on making more just like you.

That was an epic comment, eh?

212 jaunte  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:32:16pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

Some Government services are more important than a couple of percentages in the top taxable rate.
From Texas:

Other areas are being hit too. For instance, the state would have to lay off 565 caseworkers who investigate child abuse.
[Link: money.cnn.com…]
213 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:33:05pm

Close corporate tax loopholes and end corporate welfare, then we’ll talk about spending cuts to government programs.

214 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:33:29pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hell, doesn’t stop at tax breaks and subsidies. How much of our military presence in the Middle East is to ensure that the spice…er, oil keeps flowing? Or the infrastructure, from harbors to highways, that they use to move their product from the ground to the gas pump? They pay a pittance and reap a fortune, courtesy of our tax dollars.

the right wing et al works very hard to misdirect our attention away from who is really getting the massive give-aways out of our tax dollars to ordinary working people

i see a lot of vilification but nearly no actual dollar amounts

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:33:39pm

re: #202 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I have to question how much of the drive to go to war with Afghanistan was to get the terrorists and how much of it was simply the lashing out at what we considered a target for our anger and hatred? We’ve certainly not done the Afghani people any favors, replacing the Taliban with a growing kleptocracy, kept in power solely through access to our military hardware and our manpower. And Al-Q certainly seems to be in no danger of disappearing into the dustbin of history anytime soon.

The brave men and women of the Middle East who are liberating their nations without terrorism and without theocracy- though with their own blood, sweat & fears in Libya - despite us and despite Al-Qaeda - are the ones consigning Al-Q to that proverbial dustbin.

216 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:33:45pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That’s code for “Conservatives won’t let us raise taxes”. Damn straight we won’t! Higher taxes just means reduced growth and bigger government.

There really is no such thing as a tax cut when you run a deficit. All you’re doing is making somebody else pay the taxes for you. It’s like saying you bought a new car for $399, without mentioning the loan.

217 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:34:28pm

re: #202 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Are you arguing we should not have gone after Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? I disagree. And I still maintain that liberals, conservatives and moderates all supported that counter attack.

218 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:34:48pm

re: #207 Rightwingconspirator

When revenues increase spending is increased. Reagan, Clinton, they all let that happen. Except perhaps Bush 41 who traded tax increases for a deal to limit (not cut) spending. The fact is overall, that both parties overspend. What is different is not the overspending, just what it gets spent on.

Oh and can we please remember that congress spends, Presidents can only sign off, veto, or bully pulpit.

Yep. It’s been a system of give-and-take for decades, namely the majority party negotiates with the minority party to approve the majority’s spending, so long as the minority gets something on the back end. Could be approval for a another bill down the road, or an earmark that might be toxic, or simply giving consideration to a family member for a high-ranking job. Anybody who believes that one side alone is guilty of where we stand isn’t looking for answers, he’s looking for excuses.

219 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:34:52pm

re: #207 Rightwingconspirator

When revenues increase spending is increased. Reagan, Clinton, they all let that happen. Except perhaps Bush 41 who traded tax increases for a deal to limit (not cut) spending. The fact is overall, that both parties overspend. What is different is not the overspending, just what it gets spent on.

Oh and can we please remember that congress spends, Presidents can only sign off, veto, or bully pulpit.

I agree. Though as you point out, there are exceptions. So it doesn’t necessarily mean increased government, just that it very likely will in our political climate.

I was mainly taking exception to the growth part of his argument.

220 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:36:02pm

re: #210 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So we should roll back the Bush, Reagan and Kennedy cuts to prosper? I just do not see the wisdom of that given all that has changed since 1959.

221 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:36:21pm

re: #216 stevemcg

There really is no such thing as a tax cut when you run a deficit. All you’re doing is making somebody else pay the taxes for you. It’s like saying you bought a new car for $399, without mentioning the loan.

Someone else pays for it in the short term. But you pay extra for it in the long term.

222 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:37:13pm

re: #217 Rightwingconspirator

Are you arguing we should not have gone after Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? I disagree. And I still maintain that liberals, conservatives and moderates all supported that counter attack.

I argue mostly from hindsight, that Afghanistan has been poorly fought and is going to end up biting us in the ass. We had the drive and initiative in the beginning to accomplish great things, but then got blinded by ideology and a need to “punish” somebody, anybody, for 9/11. We might have worked with elements of the Taliban, brought them into the fold and created a more representative government. Instead, we did what we’ve done so many times in the past, found the one guy willing to make the right noises and showered him with money and support. Now he’s becoming a tin-plated dictator and we’ve only got ourselves to blame.

223 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:37:57pm

re: #219 prononymous

IMO-The big increase in government is in FISA, TSA, web/email data mining and Homeland security.

224 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:38:03pm

re: #220 Rightwingconspirator

We certainly should repeal at least the Bush cuts. And then think about doing the same to the Reagan cuts. I don’t think many people would advocate going to 50’s taxes. However, that was just showing that higher taxes don’t lead to ruination.

225 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:38:20pm

re: #220 Rightwingconspirator

So we should roll back the Bush, Reagan and Kennedy cuts to prosper? I just do not see the wisdom of that given all that has changed since 1959.

i thought balancing the budget was vitally important to conservatives

226 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:38:53pm

re: #225 engineer dog

i thought balancing the budget was vitally important to conservatives

Not as important as never, ever, ever, everxinfinity raising taxes ever.

227 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:39:25pm

re: #210 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From the end of WWII til the Kennedy tax cuts, the top bracket was resting around 91%. I’ve not heard any historian say that that period of America’s history was anything other than one of great economic prosperity and wealth. How is that possible if anything above 39.6% will lead to economic ruination?

Post war America was the only game in town. It was the only nation in the world without an economic base ravaged by bombs, economic malaise and labour shortage.
The tax rate on the American rich could have been 99.9% and you would still have out manufactured the rest of the world in relative terms.

That being said - the mere notion that tax rates returning to what they were under Clinton for the wealthiest being a sign of the apocolypse when the incomes of the wealthiest have risen by more than the net effect is entirely risible.

228 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:39:54pm

oops - gots to run, izzards

229 stevemcg  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:39:56pm

re: #222 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I had made the argument back in 2001 (not here) that Afghanistan was going to go on for at least a decade. There would be no such thing as victory, only continuous fighting. But I think it is a fight that must be fought. Not happy about it, can only hope for the best to all who serve. Now Iraq, that was a fuck up.

230 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:40:31pm

re: #207 Rightwingconspirator

When revenues increase spending is increased. Reagan, Clinton, they all let that happen. Except perhaps Bush 41 who traded tax increases for a deal to limit (not cut) spending. The fact is overall, that both parties overspend. What is different is not the overspending, just what it gets spent on.

Oh and can we please remember that congress spends, Presidents can only sign off, veto, or bully pulpit.

I’m all for trying to cut spending, but to do that in any meaningful manner, we need to have a serious debate about the major parts of the budget, which are defense and entitlements. Understandably, neither party is super eager to touch either of those, even though it may be possible to save money without cutting things in some cases if there were ways to reduce operating costs for those programs (I don’t know how large a savings could actually be gained there and how easy any changes to get said savings would be to implement). And, yes, it may mean cutting some benefits or changing eligibility.

All that being said, I’m not entirely sure more spending, in the abstract, is a bad thing. So long as that money is being spent wisely (Which, granted, is always a question with anything), it seems fine to me, at least up to a point.

231 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:40:48pm

re: #222 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yet much of what we do there is to nation build. Exactly what the left excoriated the right for failing to do after the Soviets left Afghanistan. Is that not how the Taliban came to power? Roads and schools and communication across the country is not a bad effort, if fraught with risk and regular failures.

232 Gus  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:40:56pm

Here you go Mr. Koch. Here’s 172.4 billion which should be enough to cover the state budgets and leave you with 40 billion to spare.

233 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:41:51pm

re: #229 stevemcg

I had made the argument back in 2001 (not here) that Afghanistan was going to go on for at least a decade. There would be no such thing as victory, only continuous fighting. But I think it is a fight that must be fought. Not happy about it, can only hope for the best to all who serve. Now Iraq, that was a fuck up.

Russia redeux. I’m sorry, I thought that from the very beginning.

We failed to get Bin Laden, it’s all for naught.

234 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:41:52pm

I have a test tomorrow to deal with (Not Fun). So I’m out. 18 hours of classes is exhausting.

235 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:17pm

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

Yet much of what we do there is to nation build. Exactly what the left excoriated the right for failing to do after the Soviets left Afghanistan. Is that not how the Taliban came to power? Roads and schools and communication across the country is not a bad effort, if fraught with risk and regular failures.

Of course, I remember the Bush/Gore debates and Bush very clearly hammering home “No nation building”. I guess, maybe, he was right to say it.

236 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:23pm

re: #217 Rightwingconspirator

Are you arguing we should not have gone after Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? I disagree. And I still maintain that liberals, conservatives and moderates all supported that counter attack.

Yes, I believe that war against the Taliban & Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan was exactly what we should have done. However I also believe that we executed that war poorly and then ran off to a insanely stupid & utterly unnecessary war in Iraq and so lost the war in Afghanistan. It’s now simply a matter of time until whomever is president declares “Victory” and brings the troops home like every other nation that has invaded Afghanistan has done throughout history.

237 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:30pm

re: #220 Rightwingconspirator

So we should roll back the Bush, Reagan and Kennedy cuts to prosper? I just do not see the wisdom of that given all that has changed since 1959.

Most certainly the Bush cuts, with consideration for the Reagan cuts once we’ve done a thorough reform of the tax code. When I find myself in debt, I start looking for ways to bring money into the house. I generally steer clear of “Get Rich Quick” schemes, as I’ve been burned a time or two in the past and been poorer for it. If I can’t bring in enough money to cover all my expenses and pay down my debt, then I start looking at what I can do without.

238 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:42:43pm

re: #223 Rightwingconspirator

IMO-The big increase in government is in FISA, TSA, web/email data mining and Homeland security.

The size of government doesn’t necessarily bother me. But I do agree that the government is too intrusive on our privacy. I would include in the above list the drug war.

239 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:43:20pm

re: #230 Simply Sarah

I’m all for trying to cut spending, but to do that in any meaningful manner, we need to have a serious debate about the major parts of the budget, which are defense and entitlements. Understandably, neither party is super eager to touch either of those, even though it may be possible to save money without cutting things in some cases if there were ways to reduce operating costs for those programs (I don’t know how large a savings could actually be gained there and how easy any changes to get said savings would be to implement). And, yes, it may mean cutting some benefits or changing eligibility.

All that being said, I’m not entirely sure more spending, in the abstract, is a bad thing. So long as that money is being spent wisely (Which, granted, is always a question with anything), it seems fine to me, at least up to a point.

Cutting unemployment benefits at a time of rising unemployment is not only brutality but insanely counter productive.

Cutting programs the military doesn’t want (and they are legion) - is sensible and desirable, but politically impossible.

240 Gus  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:43:38pm

[Stick s fingers in ears and mutters to self “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you…”]

241 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:44:37pm

re: #240 Gus 802

[Stick s fingers in ears and mutters to self “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you…”]

You say something???

242 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:44:55pm

re: #239 wozzablog

Cutting unemployment benefits at a time of rising unemployment is not only brutality but insanely counter productive.

Cutting programs the military doesn’t want (and they are legion) - is sensible and desirable, but politically impossible.

Oh, I agree. I was thinking of Medicaid/Medicare/Social Security, mainly.

243 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:45:41pm

re: #238 prononymous

The size of government doesn’t necessarily bother me. But I do agree that the government is too intrusive on our privacy. I would include in the above list the drug war.

I agree that should be added. Maybe also the “war on poverty” that certainly built a safety net for the poor but failed at reducing its scope.

244 Gus  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:46:04pm

re: #238 prononymous

The size of government doesn’t necessarily bother me. But I do agree that the government is too intrusive on our privacy. I would include in the above list the drug war.

OK, there’s another 15 billion (which is from FY2010).

So far I’m up to 187.4 billion.

246 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:48:16pm

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

Yet much of what we do there is to nation build. Exactly what the left excoriated the right for failing to do after the Soviets left Afghanistan. Is that not how the Taliban came to power? Roads and schools and communication across the country is not a bad effort, if fraught with risk and regular failures.

Nation building is a worthwhile and noble end, provided that you’ve brought fighting to an end and know that the work you’re doing will last. When you finish building a school on Monday, only for it to be reduced to a charnel house on Tuesday via suicide bomber, what have you accomplished? It certainly doesn’t help when you’ve got a government that’s more interested in attaining power than in looking out for the people that “voted” for it.

247 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:48:16pm

re: #242 Simply Sarah

Oh, I agree. I was thinking of Medicaid/Medicare/Social Security, mainly.

Problems:

More stringent medicare prescribing based on cost benefit analysis (used by every health care system in the world and much more efficient in cutting back on medically harmful over prescribing) = Death Panels.

It needs to happen - while the admin within the govt run programs is far superior to the private firms, an overhaul of seniors medicine and procedures, a new focus on wellness/continuing health and some cost/benefit will go a helluva long way without reducing benefits or staffing levels.

248 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:50:26pm

I gotta go to bed soon, but I have this complaint about partisan recriminations. They amp up the arguments and do absolutely NOTHING to reduce the debt, the deficit or to facilitate real solutions.

Who can cite or chart the deficit reductions that we can link to partisan recriminations? Show me the saved money.

249 Gus  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:50:28pm

re: #241 Varek Raith

You say something???

What I said was treasonous, unpatriotic, un-Murican, and downright French!

//

250 palomino  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:50:52pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

Nope. We’re not the ones who set up unsustainable pension schemes and then got union money as kickbacks. Nor are we the ones who support multi-billion dollar “stimulus” boondoggles.

Yes, there’s been plenty of fiscal irresponsibility on the left. But if you can’t acknowledge the fiscal irresponsibility of your own side (2000-2008) then you really aren’t in any position to either moralize over it or ultimately fix it.

251 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:51:36pm

re: #233 Stanley Sea

Russia redeux. I’m sorry, I thought that from the very beginning.

We failed to get Bin Laden, it’s all for naught.

Don’t fetishize Bin Laden. We did succeed in smashing up his central terror apparatus and he hasn’t been seen in years. If he’s not dead today, he might as well be.

252 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:52:27pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

Don’t fetishize Bin Laden. We did succeed in smashing up his central terror apparatus and he hasn’t been seen in years. If he’s not dead today, he might as well be.

I still like to think he’s meat paste on the wall of some cave in Tora Bora. But that might be wishful thinking on my part.

253 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:52:40pm

re: #243 Rightwingconspirator

I agree that should be added. Maybe also the “war on poverty” that certainly built a safety net for the poor but failed at reducing its scope.

Frankly, I feel that just about every US government program/department has issues and could be reworked to be more efficient/productive. Unfortunately the politics will never allow that to happen.

The stuff listed so far are just some of the things that I would cut back majorly or entirely.

254 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:52:49pm

re: #247 wozzablog

Problems:

More stringent medicare prescribing based on cost benefit analysis (used by every health care system in the world and much more efficient in cutting back on medically harmful over prescribing) = Death Panels.

It needs to happen - while the admin within the govt run programs is far superior to the private firms, an overhaul of seniors medicine and procedures, a new focus on wellness/continuing health and some cost/benefit will go a helluva long way without reducing benefits or staffing levels.

I think a single-payer system (Or a public-private system or any close to that) could lead to a lot of savings, even if only looking at administrative costs that would decrease as a result of getting rid of the utter mess that the American insurance industry currently is in.

And yes, the DEATH PANELS meme was extremely unfortunate, since not only would evaluating efficacy of medical treatments and basing services on the results of that analysis allow us to save money, but it would also probably lead to better care by helping to cut out all the procedures we do now that don’t help/do harm.

255 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:53:21pm

re: #248 Rightwingconspirator

I gotta go to bed soon, but I have this complaint about partisan recriminations. They amp up the arguments and do absolutely NOTHING to reduce the debt, the deficit or to facilitate real solutions.

Who can cite or chart the deficit reductions that we can link to partisan recriminations? Show me the saved money.

Clinton got the budget balanced and left a surplus while working with republicans.

The current GOP has no interest in cutting their own pet programs nowadays, but clinton sold out a bunch of single mothers and working poor during welfare reform leaving him a pariah with aspects of his base.

Obama is willing to make cuts - like clinton was, this GOP house will not deal though.

256 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:54:01pm

re: #246 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We can build that nation or a more harsh 11th century oriented regime can. I’ll stick with modernity as the better option, even as it costs and hurts.

257 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:55:49pm

re: #256 Rightwingconspirator

We can build that nation or a more harsh 11th century oriented regime can.

The Normans are coming back?

258 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:56:20pm

re: #257 freetoken

The Normans are coming back?

I’ll get the claymores!

259 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:56:26pm

re: #254 Simply Sarah

I think a single-payer system (Or a public-private system or any close to that) could lead to a lot of savings, even if only looking at administrative costs that would decrease as a result of getting rid of the utter mess that the American insurance industry currently is in.

And yes, the DEATH PANELS meme was extremely unfortunate, since not only would evaluating efficacy of medical treatments and basing services on the results of that analysis allow us to save money, but it would also probably lead to better care by helping to cut out all the procedures we do now that don’t help/do harm.

I agree 100%.

But single payer won’t happen until the current insurance providers go bust by having to cover life saving and life prolonging treatments that affect their bottom lines.

Medicare and Medicaid coverage will expand - like salami slices - to cover those gaps, but will lead to a horribly over complicated piecemeal system. It would still be better than nothing - and nothing is still what a lot of people have.

260 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:56:32pm

re: #255 wozzablog

Agreed.

261 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:56:58pm

re: #257 freetoken

LOL
Taliban.

262 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:57:40pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

LOL
Taliban.

Oh.
Well…
I’ll get the other claymores!

263 palomino  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:58:01pm

re: #210 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From the end of WWII til the Kennedy tax cuts, the top bracket was resting around 91%. I’ve not heard any historian say that that period of America’s history was anything other than one of great economic prosperity and wealth. How is that possible if anything above 39.6% will lead to economic ruination?

Of course it won’t. But for conservatives this is no longer a rational discussion based on anything empirical. Instead it’s an article of faith for most on the right that taxes are evil and should never be raised; it’s what happens when rigid ideology trumps pragmatic problem solving.

264 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:58:51pm

Anyone up for some fun? I am almost certain our troll ElSuerte is a sock. He’s putting feces on the ends of dead threads.

265 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:01:20pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

Anyone up for some fun? I am almost certain our troll ElSuerte is a sock. He’s putting feces on the ends of dead threads.

I don’t find playing with shit to be fun.

266 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:01:59pm

re: #258 Varek Raith

I’ll get the claymores!

Just make sure the correct side is pointed at the enemy.


What?

267 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:02:05pm

re: #263 palomino

Of course it won’t. But for conservatives this is no longer a rational discussion based on anything empirical. Instead it’s an article of faith for most on the right that taxes are evil and should never be raised; it’s what happens when rigid ideology trumps pragmatic problem solving.

They only want taxes to go down - and thats just not economically feasible. Anyone who advocates an ever doward stratergy can not and must not be taken seriously on this.
The bell curve comes into effect - too much money coming in and it gets sloshed around - too little and the govt can not function in a manner that enables the markets to work by itself being a best of burden.

268 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:03:57pm

re: #267 wozzablog

They only want taxes to go down - and thats just not economically feasible. Anyone who advocates an ever doward stratergy can not and must not be taken seriously on this.
The bell curve comes into effect - too much money coming in and it gets sloshed around - too little and the govt can not function in a manner that enables the markets to work by itself being a beast of burden. (fire, police, roads, sanitation, senior healthcare, the military and on ad on)

269 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:04:39pm

Later gators.

270 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:05:16pm

And now, I must take my leave of you all, so that I may best prepare myself for whatever ‘wonders’ the news may have in store for us tomorrow.

271 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:08:10pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

Anyone up for some fun? I am almost certain our troll ElSuerte is a sock. He’s putting feces on the ends of dead threads.

I’m ready for a troll roast. Let me at ‘em.

272 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:08:17pm

I will log off now too - but i have news…….. *job interview Friday morning*

It’s full time but the commute could turn out to be hell and also my voluntary commitments would be massively squeezed - beggars can not, however, be choosers.

273 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:12:04pm

Congrats to all you guys who got the news to us. Much appreciated. LGF has become in the past couple years one of my most trusted places to find news.

274 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:16:29pm

Well, Charles just Clubbed the Dead Thread Rat Troll. I’ll get the grill going and roast it.

275 Gus  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:19:51pm

Going to sleep. Night folks.

276 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:23:27pm

A WSJ article that should be read by all:

Libya Rebels March West as Fronts Firm

A ragtag army of opponents to Col. Moammar Gadhafi began moving west toward Tripoli from the east and the U.S. ordered two warships to the Mediterranean Sea, as the prospect of an extended war loomed over Libya.

A convoy of armed youth, including what appeared to be rebel military forces, was seen heading Tuesday night toward the pro-Gadhafi stronghold city of Sirte, witnesses said. The forces were viewed passing westward through Ajdabiya, a city about 75 miles from the opposition stronghold of Benghazi, said four residents, including a volunteer rebel soldier and an official on the city’s local leadership council. It was unclear how many rebels were on the move.

Also Tuesday, the U.S. ordered two warships and 1200 Marines to the waters off of Libya, but a top Obama administration official stopped short of saying the forces would intervene in the clashes that have consumed the country following anti-Gadhafi protests here in recent weeks.

At a Pentagon briefing, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced he had ordered to the Mediterranean the USS Ponce and the USS Kearsarge, an amphibious-assault ship thatn typically carries infantrymen and troop-transport helicopters. Those ships currently have 800 marines, in addition to 400 U.S.-based Marines who will be airlifted to meet the ships. He said the ships would be ready to perform evacuations and humanitarian relief.

A move to the west by the rebels is both preparation to push west and a plan for a forward defense if they are attacked. Smart play, IMO.

277 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:26:49pm

Gaddafi’s days are numbered. I’m just curious as to whether the old prick will go down fighting and eat the barrel of his gun. Either way, I don’t see him getting out of this alive.

278 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:27:48pm

re: #277 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Gaddafi’s days are numbered. I’m just curious as to whether the old prick will go down fighting and or eat the barrel of his gun. Either way, I don’t see him getting out of this alive.

279 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:28:12pm

re: #277 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Gaddafi’s days are numbered. I’m just curious as to whether the old prick will go down fighting and eat the barrel of his gun. Either way, I don’t see him getting out of this alive.

I don’t think he’ll win either, but the trick is how to get rid of him. What are your thoughts?

280 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:28:42pm

Godless lesbians make blasphemous cheese
The King of Ricotta: Salvatore Bklyn (Video)

281 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:31:09pm

On a dead thread, Charles killed yet another sock. I thought I would repost something here…

re: #571 Charles

You’ve got to be kidding.

You know how it goes… being all slimy at the end of dead threads is a “victory” for the stalkers. After all, they have no other life.

It’s pretty sad really to think about these folks.

There they are, fat, aging and useless. They have petty little lives and little education. The only thing that defines them is petty attempts to get noticed by you.

How sad is that?

Well I suppose they also are defined by insulting others and having paranoid masturbatory fantasies involving saving Palin from hordes of angry Black, Muslim, communist, zombie mole men, who forced them to buy gold after the the economy collapsed because people got healthcare.

But other than the masturbation to a picture of Palin while waving the stars and stripes and getting really angry at people who aren’t fat, white, aging, ignorant and stupid… what do they have?

They have hating the people at this site who are educated and have actual reasons to live.

And Charles, you took that poor troll’s little gasp at being relevant away.

You cruel, cruel ex daddy.

282 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:33:34pm

re: #280 Killgore Trout

Godless lesbians make blasphemous cheese
The King of Ricotta: Salvatore Bklyn (Video)

Now them homosexuals want to get in our pizza! THis made me hungry though for a good pizza and I am trying to lose weight. Oh well, this pasta salad will do for now but I am hungry for a good pepperoni, spinach, and feta cheese pizza.

283 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:34:57pm

re: #281 LudwigVanQuixote

LMAO! Great stuff, Ludwig. As always, you have those assholes exact.

284 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:35:27pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think he’ll win either, but the trick is how to get rid of him. What are your thoughts?

Personally, I think the whole matter is an internal one and should stay that way. If the Libyan people want to send him into exile, then so be it. But I don’t think that’s gonna happen, now that he’s made the streets run red. Perhaps we’ll get lucky and one of his personal guard will decide that his suddenly developing lead poisoning is in the country’s best interest. Perhaps the people will push into Tripoli and storm his hideaway. Or perhaps he’ll sneak out somehow, making a last-minute break for freedom.

I think our role, if any, is simply to apply pressure to him. To corner him as best we can and let things play out as they will. Any aggressive moves on our part are likely not to be welcomed, and may even be counterproductive. A no-fly-zone would be a big help, but with pilots having deserted, jets and all, we might end up shooting anti-Gaddafi pilots down without meaning to.

All in all, it’s one hell of a clusterfuck over there.

285 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:40:33pm

re: #284 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think the whole matter is an internal one and should stay that way. If the Libyan people want to send him into exile, then so be it. But I don’t think that’s gonna happen, now that he’s made the streets run red. Perhaps we’ll get lucky and one of his personal guard will decide that his suddenly developing lead poisoning is in the country’s best interest. Perhaps the people will push into Tripoli and storm his hideaway. Or perhaps he’ll sneak out somehow, making a last-minute break for freedom.

I think our role, if any, is simply to apply pressure to him. To corner him as best we can and let things play out as they will. Any aggressive moves on our part are likely not to be welcomed, and may even be counterproductive. A no-fly-zone would be a big help, but with pilots having deserted, jets and all, we might end up shooting anti-Gaddafi pilots down without meaning to.

All in all, it’s one hell of a clusterfuck over there.

Well, I do think we should help supply the rebels. We do make ammo and magazines for their rifles (AKMs) and we could help buy and ship the heavier stuff they need from Russia. No direct involvement (though the rebels say they may need airstrikes) and it would help them win.

286 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:46:14pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do think we should help supply the rebels. We do make ammo and magazines for their rifles (AKMs) and we could help buy and ship the heavier stuff they need from Russia. No direct involvement (though the rebels say they may need airstrikes) and it would help them win.

It’s a possibility, but one that flirts with disaster. Right now, what’s happening in Libya is still an internal matter, outside intervention being invisible if it’s actually there. We start supplying the rebels, we give opponents the opening to claim that this is in fact a “US-led coup” aimed at removing Gaddafi and installing a government to our benefit. All of a sudden, we’ve got Gaddafi on TV, saying that what’s happening in Libya is the same thing that happened in Venezuela, that the CIA came in and organized this uprising as a form of “imperialism” against the Libyan people. It would spread doubt within the ranks, doubt that they’re fighting for themselves, rather than for US-paid stooges.

287 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:00:32pm

Hey “Masturbating Zombie Mole Man”, here’s your hand:

SMACK!

Go get yourself a life.

288 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:03:21pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do think we should help supply the rebels. We do make ammo and magazines for their rifles (AKMs) and we could help buy and ship the heavier stuff they need from Russia. No direct involvement (though the rebels say they may need airstrikes) and it would help them win.

It’s gotta happen, if at all, via the UN. I know there are lots of reasons to laugh at the UN, but in many third world nations there are many who still believe in it. As a result we should use that to our advantage - especially when our advantage is the same as the locals advantage ;)

I’m hoping that, at the request of the rebel government, the UN orders a no fly zone. I also hope that no US (or French or Italian) aircraft take part because the propaganda issues are too large due both real and imagined colonial issues. Here’s hoping that Spain and Greece can use NATO standards to bomb the [bleep] out that little pig.

289 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:05:44pm

re: #286 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It’s a possibility, but one that flirts with disaster. Right now, what’s happening in Libya is still an internal matter, outside intervention being invisible if it’s actually there. We start supplying the rebels, we give opponents the opening to claim that this is in fact a “US-led coup” aimed at removing Gaddafi and installing a government to our benefit. All of a sudden, we’ve got Gaddafi on TV, saying that what’s happening in Libya is the same thing that happened in Venezuela, that the CIA came in and organized this uprising as a form of “imperialism” against the Libyan people. It would spread doubt within the ranks, doubt that they’re fighting for themselves, rather than for US-paid stooges.

Not so much, since their leaders are asking for the help. And we can put out our own broadcasts to counter the lies. The only real risk is that it might firm up the will of some Gaddafi loyalists, but I think that a risk worth running. I see the risk factor as fairly low. The rebels are already committed to death or victory, I don’t think material support from us will be a major problem for them.

290 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:07:47pm

re: #288 wlewisiii

It’s gotta happen, if at all, via the UN. I know there are lots of reasons to laugh at the UN, but in many third world nations there are many who still believe in it. As a result we should use that to our advantage - especially when our advantage is the same as the locals advantage ;)

I’m hoping that, at the request of the rebel government, the UN orders a no fly zone. I also hope that no US (or French or Italian) aircraft take part because the propaganda issues are too large due both real and imagined colonial issues. Here’s hoping that Spain and Greece can use NATO standards to bomb the [bleep] out that little pig.

Hang the propaganda, we can counter it. If the rebels need airstrikes, we should send them. And forget the UN. It won’t act, because Russia and China aren’t likely to let it.

291 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:08:01pm

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Hey “Masturbating Zombie Mole Man”, here’s your hand:

SMACK!

Go get yourself a life.

Ohh are you looking over there…

While they are busy masturbating…

I think they should understand the real nature of Palin…

Some people say that she made a pact with the old ones while chanting in a ritual circle and snogs shoggoths.

Some people say that her rise too fame was instigated by her “service” to the mad dreams of Cthulu.

I am just asking questions here…

It seems odd that a person so vapid, devoid of talent, honor, honesty, ability to do her job, or willingness to serve the people who elected her, could possibly become a darling of anyone without the influence of the dark dreaming.

Isn’t it interesting that such a talentless, hack as Palin even gets enough notice to be national joke? How could that be possible if she weren’t willingly giving it up to the madness of the old ones body and soul?

I am just asking.

292 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:09:12pm

re: #291 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh are you looking over there…

While they are busy masturbating…

I think they should understand the real nature of Palin…

Some people say that she made a pact with the old ones while chanting in a ritual circle and snogs shoggoths.

Some people say that her rise too fame was instigated by her “service” to the mad dreams of Cthulu.

I am just asking questions here…

It seems odd that a person so vapid, devoid of talent, honor, honesty, ability to do her job, or willingness to serve the people who elected her, could possibly become a darling of anyone without the influence of the dark dreaming.

Isn’t it interesting that such a talentless, hack as Palin even gets enough notice to be national joke? How could that be possible if she weren’t willingly giving it up to the madness of the old ones body and soul?

I am just asking.

It should be funny to watch their reaction to that.

293 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:09:51pm

re: #291 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, how do you see the question of aiding the Libyan rebels.

294 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:12:44pm

re: #289 Dark_Falcon

Not so much, since their leaders are asking for the help. And we can put out our own broadcasts to counter the lies. The only real risk is that it might firm up the will of some Gaddafi loyalists, but I think that a risk worth running. I see the risk factor as fairly low. The rebels are already committed to death or victory, I don’t think material support from us will be a major problem for them.

Like I said, it’s flirting with disaster. We have to think outside Libya, as we did with Egypt. What’s happening in the Middle East right now is, with each dictator that either knuckles under or goes under, the will of the people is gaining momentum. Material support is one thing, we can play it up as giving people the means to overthrow Gaddafi. Even a no-fly-zone, so long as it’s a multi-nation effort, can be played up as neutering Gaddafi’s ability to kill his people. But we take it any further than that, we give guys like Dinnerjacket and Baby Assad the excuse that their bringing the hammer down on their own rebels is just putting down “US-supported coups.”

295 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:14:57pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

It should be funny to watch their reaction to that.

Go and do it for me. I rather pointedly don’t read them. If they crop up here, I’ll spank them, but I really don’t need to read their drivel. They already know they are stupid. They already know they are losers. Hell they already know they lose every time they come up against actual facts or logic or an IQ above room temperature.

Their whole worthless lives are defined by reacting to other people. They never do anything useful because they can not.

Afterall, I define their reason to live right after Charles and it amuses me to deny them of noticing them.

However, it does amuse me that they have read every word of this.

296 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:16:19pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

Also, how do you see the question of aiding the Libyan rebels.

I see it as a total wash. If there comes a time that someone we could actually use, and clearly is worth aiding, crops up over there and we can give them a hand, sure. If not, absolutely best to stay out of it.

297 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:17:29pm

re: #294 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I said, it’s flirting with disaster. We have to think outside Libya, as we did with Egypt. What’s happening in the Middle East right now is, with each dictator that either knuckles under or goes under, the will of the people is gaining momentum. Material support is one thing, we can play it up as giving people the means to overthrow Gaddafi. Even a no-fly-zone, so long as it’s a multi-nation effort, can be played up as neutering Gaddafi’s ability to kill his people. But we take it any further than that, we give guys like Dinnerjacket and Baby Assad the excuse that their bringing the hammer down on their own rebels is just putting down “US-supported coups.”

Material support and air power is as far as I think it wise to go. I’m not calling for ground troops. The only way I’d do that was if they were requested by the rebels and it would mean the difference between victory and defeat; And its not something we should offer to them beforehand. Far better if we don’t put boots on the ground. It’s their fight, but we can help them win it.

298 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:17:47pm

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

Hang the propaganda, we can counter it. If the rebels need airstrikes, we should send them. And forget the UN. It won’t act, because Russia and China aren’t likely to let it.

Well, no, in the middle east we’ve shown repeatedly under Dems & Repubs that we can’t counter it. If we could, Israel would be in a much better place. That said, we now have to deal with the UN.

We have to go there first. If, at the end of the day, we have a specific bad guy to point at (china, russia, someone else) so much the better.If not, we can at least say we followed the rules. We can not afford to pretend this is “Top Gun” and just send in the Hornets with missiles hot. .

299 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:20:06pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

I see it as a total wash. If there comes a time that someone we could actually use, and clearly is worth aiding, crops up over there and we can give them a hand, sure. If not, absolutely best to stay out of it.

Also a good argument in favor of just leaving it an internal matter. How many rebellions have we supported in the past, thinking that our support would lead to friendly relations, only for the rebels to turn the weapons we’d supplied them with on us or our allies instead?

300 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:21:05pm

re: #298 wlewisiii

Well, no, in the middle east we’ve shown repeatedly under Dems & Repubs that we can’t counter it. If we could, Israel would be in a much better place. That said, we now have to deal with the UN.

We have to go there first. If, at the end of the day, we have a specific bad guy to point at (china, russia, someone else) so much the better.If not, we can at least say we followed the rules. We can not afford to pretend this is “Top Gun” and just send in the Hornets with missiles hot. .

I’m not proposing that. I say that we supply the rebels, in conjunction with France and the UK. If they need air support, we provide it on the same multi-lateral basis. That’s it.

301 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:21:53pm

re: #289 Dark_Falcon

Not so much, since their leaders are asking for the help. And we can put out our own broadcasts to counter the lies. The only real risk is that it might firm up the will of some Gaddafi loyalists, but I think that a risk worth running. I see the risk factor as fairly low. The rebels are already committed to death or victory, I don’t think material support from us will be a major problem for them.

Tell me DF,
Should this be something any country should be able to do when they support a particular group, or just Americans?

302 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:23:08pm

re: #298 wlewisiii

Well, no, in the middle east we’ve shown repeatedly under Dems & Repubs that we can’t counter it. If we could, Israel would be in a much better place. That said, we now have to deal with the UN.

We have to go there first. If, at the end of the day, we have a specific bad guy to point at (china, russia, someone else) so much the better.If not, we can at least say we followed the rules. We can not afford to pretend this is “Top Gun” and just send in the Hornets with missiles hot. .

There also isn’t much to shoot with a Hornet.

Honestly, the US has a rather awful track record with the Muslim world when it comes to intervening with their rulers. We were the ones who propped up Saddam and Bin Laden and the Sha. Under Carter and Reagan, it was thought that giving a credible rival to the PLO would help Israel, so a little “peaceful” organization that swore it was only about building schools and doing charity was given millions of dollars. That organization was Hamas.

That turned out great for us.

It is much better to let those places do their thing and then deal with whomever the people put up. However, it would also be good to get rid of the oil leverage so we could deal properly with whatever regime cropped up.

303 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:23:09pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do think we should help supply the rebels. We do make ammo and magazines for their rifles (AKMs) and we could help buy and ship the heavier stuff they need from Russia. No direct involvement (though the rebels say they may need airstrikes) and it would help them win.

Tell me DF,
Should this be something any country should be able to do when they support a particular group, or just Americans?

I hate it when I quote the wrong quote!

304 Kragar  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:28:53pm

Ok, I’m in love with the new DoW expansion.

305 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:29:37pm

re: #303 ozbloke

Tell me DF,
Should this be something any country should be able to do when they support a particular group, or just Americans?

I hate it when I quote the wrong quote!

Not just us, but only democracies should be allowed to do it, in the main. Though I make an exception for Uganda and Ethiopia, given they hard work in fighting the forces of chaos and Radical Islam, especially in Somalia.

306 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:29:46pm

re: #304 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am happy for you!

307 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:30:41pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

Not just us, but only democracies should be allowed to do it, in the main. Though I make an exception for Uganda and Ethiopia, given they hard work in fighting the forces of chaos and Radical Islam, especially in Somalia.

So if Australia wants to provide such support to a group rebelling against a tyrant, that’s just fine with me. You guys are good eggs.

308 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:31:55pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

Not just us, but only democracies should be allowed to do it, in the main. Though I make an exception for Uganda and Ethiopia, given they hard work in fighting the forces of chaos and Radical Islam, especially in Somalia.

Thanks Dark,

So if the Ugandans decide to arm the Tea Party, to help overthrow the US Govt, you’d be ok with that?

309 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:33:02pm

The True Believers hold firm:

Done deal on a $4 billion cut gives Republicans spending victory

The House approved a stopgap spending resolution Tuesday in a landslide 335-91 vote, with more than 100 Democrats joining all but six Republicans in voting to slash federal spending by $4 billion over the next two weeks.

[…]

Six Republicans opposed the bill: Reps. Michele Bachmann (Minn.), Steve King (Iowa), Ron Paul (Texas), Walter Jones (N.C.), Louie Gohmert (Texas) and Justin Amash (Mich.), a freshman.

[…]

310 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:33:40pm

Real Tea Partiers don’t let Boehner boss them around.

311 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:34:12pm

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

So if Australia wants to provide such support to a group rebelling against a tyrant, that’s just fine with me. You guys are good eggs.

I wish we were good eggs, the racism and bigotry coming out of the right wing here is disgusting. People and polititions pamering to them.

Seriously, in the 1970’s I thought we would have this liked by now.
I say its the heart of man.
Oh, and why do we still have wheels?

312 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:36:16pm

re: #311 ozbloke

PIMF

I wish we were good eggs, the racism and bigotry coming out of the right wing here is disgusting. People and politicians pampering to them.

Seriously, in the 1970’s I thought we would have this liked licked by now.
I say its the heart of man.
Oh, and why do we still have wheels?

313 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:41:51pm

re: #308 ozbloke

Thanks Dark,

So if the Ugandans decide to arm the Tea Party, to help overthrow the US Govt, you’d be ok with that?

Err, no. I’m not advocating the overthrown of democracies.

314 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:43:03pm

re: #309 freetoken

The True Believers hold firm:

Done deal on a $4 billion cut gives Republicans spending victory

Thankfully, it was only those kooks. The GOP as a whole stayed sane and kept talking. For the moment, sanity prevails.

315 Kragar  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:45:10pm

re: #306 LudwigVanQuixote

I am happy for you!

They finally got the Imperial Guard just right. You can set up fields of fire and the heavy weapon teams and the characters are swappable for more troops. Played for over 4 hours tonight

316 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:46:41pm

re: #302 LudwigVanQuixote

That organization was Hamas.

That turned out great for us.

And we won’t mention that whole shah bit that blew up so messily. It has nothing to do with today, after all…

////////////////////////////////

Sheesh.

317 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:48:08pm

re: #313 Dark_Falcon

Err, no. I’m not advocating the overthrown of democracies.

I think I have it:
Democracies can overthrow non democracies, because they decide its right.
Non Democracies can not do such things.

I gotta tell ya, I’m struggling with the concept that that is ok.
I do believe any countries people do have the right to protest, and if so, bring down there own government, its their government

I’m not sure I accept that all democracies are equal in the democratic nature.

I also think that other countries might take offence to what you suggest, and frankly, I don’t think I would blame them.

318 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:49:41pm

re: #317 ozbloke

I think I have it:
Democracies can overthrow non democracies, because they decide its right.
Non Democracies can not do such things.

I gotta tell ya, I’m struggling with the concept that that is ok.
I do believe any countries people do have the right to protest, and if so, bring down there own government, its their government

I’m not sure I accept that all democracies are equal in the democratic nature.

I also think that other countries might take offence to what you suggest, and frankly, I don’t think I would blame them.

If they do, then they do. I’m not saying the US should throw its weight around whenever, but in this case aiding the rebels is a good idea.

319 freetoken  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:52:06pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

Thankfully, it was only those kooks. The GOP as a whole stayed sane and kept talking. For the moment, sanity prevails.

I expect the whole thing was orchestrated so the nayers could justify yet another appearance on some media, say Fox News.

320 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:53:10pm

G’night all. See you in the morning.

321 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:54:25pm

re: #318 Dark_Falcon

If they do, then they do. I’m not saying the US should throw its weight around whenever, but in this case aiding the rebels is a good idea.

I get you think that.
I don’t think that history is on your side.
I believe it would cause more harm than good, it would turn into a religious issue in days.

322 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:54:38pm

re: #319 freetoken

I expect the whole thing was orchestrated so the nayers could justify yet another appearance on some media, say Fox News.

Whatever. They can promote government shutdown, but they’ll find little public support. Even much of Fox won’t like the idea. Its a colossal loser.

323 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:57:07pm

re: #321 ozbloke

I get you think that.
I don’t think that history is on your side.
I believe it would cause more harm than good, it would turn into a religious issue in days.

I don’t agree. I think that if they rebels ask for help, they’ll take our help without much of a problem.

And now I’m going to knock off. Goodnight, all.

324 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 10:58:05pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

Nite Dark

325 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:01:18pm

Koch Lies
charles koch published an editorial in the wsj today, that contained this sentence:

Federal data indicate how urgently we need reform: The unfunded liabilities of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid already exceed $106 trillion

this “unfunded liability” estimate comes without a timeframe or source. tell me: how can you talk about an amount of money estimated to be owed in the future without mentioning the amount of time you are talking about? $106 trillion over what period of time???

currently us federal budget outlays are around $3.8 trillion total, out of which (very roughly) ss & medicare amount to $2 trillion. so, accounting for inflation, we would have to arrive at a very rough estimate of 30 to 40 years to need to outlay $106 trillion

but ss and medicare are not totally unfunded over the next 30 years. according to the ss trustees, ss will be able to meet all of its obligations until about 2036, and about 75% of obligations going forward from that, unless financing is adjusted. medicare is in worse shape, with problems anticipated in about 9 years

funding for ss was adjusted under ronald reagan in the mid 80s, when ss taxes were raised. the solvency of medicare was extended significantly due to adjustments made in the recent health care bill.

we don’t owe all future ss and medicare obligations due payable right now, but koch, with his ginormous figure pulled, for all we can tell, directly out of his ass, makes it sound like it

charles koch is lying

326 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:04:21pm

re: #318 Dark_Falcon

If they do, then they do. I’m not saying the US should throw its weight around whenever, but in this case aiding the rebels is a good idea.

Jesus Christo

327 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:06:08pm

and how about the ss trustees? what do they say?

“For the 75-year projection period, the actuarial deficit is 2.00 percent of taxable payroll, 0.30 percentage point larger than in last year’s report. The open group unfunded obligation for OASDI over the 75-year period is $5.3 trillion in present value, and is $0.9 trillion more than the measured level of a year ago.”

$5.3 trillion in unfunded liabilites over the next 75 years

328 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:15:01pm

WSJ=Murdoch=Fox=GOP=Koch

I don’t trust these folks. No way

329 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:23:41pm

re: #67 Kruk

Jesus wept. I know we’ve already discussed Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin’s law criminalizing miscarriages, but this article makes it clear just how batshit the law really is.

A woman who miscarries is responsible for proving there was there was no ‘human involvement’ (in other words, the burden of proof falls on her rather than the state), and she could potentially face the death penalty of convicted.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Link: www.theroot.com…]

This is unbelievably unconstitutional

330 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:30:45pm

And here’s not-so-wonderful news from Pakistan. A pro-reform minorities minister was assassinated.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

A Christian who wanted to reform the country’s blasphemy laws.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:46:41pm

Sometimes the stupidity of people on Yahoo just overwhelms me.

Here’s the story. A 200-year-old mural that was uncovered at Mission Dolores is being recreated. It’s a priceless bit of San Francisco and Native American history, and will be a tourist attraction. A guy is raising money to hire the artists to do it.

HOW NONTROVERSIAL CAN YOU GET?

Now, in the comments:

Them dang Ghost Dancers are rilin’ up the locals agin.

I think my civil rights are being violated. Can we sue the city, get an injunction to stop this madness. Have it covered up because it is a religious symbol. Come on and help me. Some dumb san fransisco liberal will come up with some @#$%. Oh wait it isn’t a cross or a white person. My bad.

A 20x5 foot exterior section of a building would not cost $8,300 to paint,I’m a painter so I know. Does this artist want to recreate the artwork so that folks can see a piece of history or use it as an excuse to put bunch of cash in his pocket ? I could recreate it flawlessly and I’m not an artist and do it for under a grand.

OMG!! what ever, I wonder where the 8300. will come from. could help alot of hungry families,, instead someone wants to paint.

Native American Indians do not believe in Jesus!!!

Some days people just annoy the shit out of me.

332 palomino  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:54:22pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

Sometimes the stupidity of people on Yahoo just overwhelms me.

Here’s the story. A 200-year-old mural that was uncovered at Mission Dolores is being recreated. It’s a priceless bit of San Francisco and Native American history, and will be a tourist attraction. A guy is raising money to hire the artists to do it.

HOW NONTROVERSIAL CAN YOU GET?

Now, in the comments:

Them dang Ghost Dancers are rilin’ up the locals agin.

I think my civil rights are being violated. Can we sue the city, get an injunction to stop this madness. Have it covered up because it is a religious symbol. Come on and help me. Some dumb san fransisco liberal will come up with some @#$%. Oh wait it isn’t a cross or a white person. My bad.

A 20x5 foot exterior section of a building would not cost $8,300 to paint,I’m a painter so I know. Does this artist want to recreate the artwork so that folks can see a piece of history or use it as an excuse to put bunch of cash in his pocket ? I could recreate it flawlessly and I’m not an artist and do it for under a grand.

OMG!! what ever, I wonder where the 8300. will come from. could help alot of hungry families,, instead someone wants to paint.

Native American Indians do not believe in Jesus!!!

Some days people just annoy the shit out of me.

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s a Yahoo comment board for you. They used to be even worse, but are now moderated to some extent. So you don’t see as many references to watermelon, fried chicken and gorillas when discussing the president. But there’s still a lot of the same bs about Obama being a Marxist, hating America and being a noncitizen.

Yahoo seems to skew way right. Maybe it’s because Yahoo was the first big site back in the 90’s and is now favored by old time tea party types.

333 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 1, 2011 11:59:10pm

Here we go again.

Bill O’Reilly and FoxNews AGAIN caught using phony stock footage during his “reporting” on the Wisconsin teacher protests, in an attempt to portray them as violent.

[Link: forums.thedailyshow.com…]

Note the video with the “Union Protest” label in the upper left-hand corner.
Now, notice the palm trees that are in the background of the footage.

334 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:02:29am

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

What a load of BS and a bunch of jerks.

The commenter mmm that complained about civil rights should shut the hell up, IMO. The mural includes Christ’s pierced heart in it. Yet somehow they have the gall to come in complaining about not being able to display Christ in public. What the hell, as if that doesn’t happen regularly? I think the only words they saw before commenting were “Indians”, “$8,300”, and “recreate”.

The commenter NAZGUL, if he is representing his credentials correctly, is likely misrepresenting the situation. Willfully, IMO. It might cost a grand with the ready picture in hand plus some bulk paint from Home Depot. But to digitally recreate an ancient painting is a lot of work, not all of which has been done, IIRC. Also, high quality materials, surface preparation, etc for a high quality piece of public art that will really last likely costs more than NAZGUL has stated and closer to what the project is asking. I’d bet on it. The project states 
$8,300 for the initial painting and $14,000 for total price including upkeep (it is all in the links). Could they be inflating the price to make extra money? Sure. But a public history project funded by donations probably isn’t the best way to make bank, when it comes right down to it.

The commenter Tiger complaining about it taking money away from families should get some perspective. If a mere 280 people are generous enough to donate $50 to the project, $14,000 will be met. Hardly a huge drain on the local economy. And it is promoting local history. And people should be donating to food banks too - types of philanthropy aren’t mutually exclusive with each other.

The commenter “fix” (I’m not giving him the extra hits) should stop lying. Some Native Americans do believe in Jesus. Some others believe in their own gods, or other religions’ gods. Some believe in both/all of these things. All Native Americans can’t be pigeonholed as this ignorant asshole does.

*lets the steam pressure blow off for a bit*

335 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:13:54am

What I don’t get is how people can think science is easy, and punctuated by a lot of maniacal laughter and evil conventions. The reality is that it is a lot of tedious moving of extremely small volumes of fluid (in my practice), deep thought, and calculations for a better understanding of reality and/or profit. Is there something intrinsically wrong with that?

336 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:13am

Australian politicians worry about the Americanization of their politics - i.e., the move towards violence:


Windsor calls for calm after death threats

Independent MP Tony Windsor has called for restraint from talkback radio hosts and fellow MPs amid an increasingly vitriolic debate about the Government’s carbon tax plans.

The independent MP drew parallels with the recent shooting of US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, warning violent political rhetoric and “abuse” on the airwaves could provoke a similar tragedy in Australia.

His comments came after he revealed he had received a number of death threats over the issue, and released a phone message which ended with: “I hope you die”.

“You’re a f..ing liar, a dog, a rat, a big f…ing MP dog… and you wait you’re not going to get voted in again. I hope you die, you bastard,” the caller said.

“All I’m saying is look, be careful we don’t want to go down the American road. We’ve got a great democracy here, we can argue with each other without killing each other,” Mr Windsor told ABC Radio National Breakfast.

“I think we saw instances in America recently where people were incited by various professional media people to hideous acts,” he said.

“There should be substantive debates on substantive issues, not just slogans and one-liners and abuse on the airwaves. And I would hate something happen to someone in our parliamentary system and that would change it forever.”

And he levelled a finger at conservative talkback radio hosts, saying they are orchestrating a campaign designed to bring the Government down.

“This is about eradicating the current Government, using the carbon pricing issue as the catalyst to attempt to get some sort of people’s revolt, US-style revolt to overthrow the government,” he said.

“I think the shock jocks and others are involved in an orchestrated campaign over the issue itself, but particularly they’re targeting members of parliament that want to be involved in the substantive debates.

“I think if they keep running that line they may well have a self-fulfilling prophecy and incite people to do things they would never normally do.”

[…]

Recommend reading the whole article.

337 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:14am

I post naked?

338 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:18:57am

I’ll note that Australians are even more profligate in their energy use than Americans, and that getting them to reduce their carbon emissions will be probably as impossible as it is to get the US to voluntarily price carbon emissions.

I don’t know if this issue can bring down the Labor government, but if the current government does institute a carbon tax then it looks like there is a possibility of some wild politics in Oz.

339 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:27:40am

re: #338 freetoken

I’ll note that Australians are even more profligate in their energy use than Americans, and that getting them to reduce their carbon emissions will be probably as impossible as it is to get the US to voluntarily price carbon emissions.

Really? Interesting.

Isn’t much of Australia compatible with the use of evaporative cooling?

340 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:31:58am

Though, of course the energy savings with evaporative cooling comes along with its own set of disadvantages as well.

341 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:50:08am

re: #339 prononymous


Isn’t much of Australia compatible with the use of evaporative cooling?

Where most people live - I suppose. Probably not as much as here in the US southwest.

Anyway, the Aussies lover their autos and suburbs just like Americans.

342 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:50:23am
MP3 Audio
343 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:56:20am

re: #341 freetoken

Hmm, I see. Well that’s a good point to note.

344 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:53:32am
MP3 Audio
345 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:01:43am

re: #341 freetoken

Where most people live - I suppose. Probably not as much as here in the US southwest.

Anyway, the Aussies lover their autos and suburbs just like Americans.

And if their standards of building and insulation are at all like those of Britain, then they waste a lot of energy that way, too.

346 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:20:21am

Just six hours and 40 minutes from the Apple presentation of the rumored iPad2. Sites that are Live-blogging it include:

[Link: www.mobilecrunch.com…]
[Link: news.cnet.com…]
[Link: arstechnica.com…]

347 researchok  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:23:22am

Morning, all

348 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:26:03am

Americans are also famous for setting their thermostats at 72°F in the winter and 68° in the summer…

349 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:43:01am

In more Apple news:

Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Dozens of high quality new multilingual speech voices

In Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple added a very realistic new voice named Alex for text to speech features. In Lion, Apple provides dozens of even better quality voices in more than forty languages and dialects.

People familiar with the matter report that individual voices range from about a third to more than a half gigabyte each, and that Apple will supply the voices as downloadable options that can be selectively installed by the user.

The 53 new voices are not yet available for download from Apple, but a synthesized demo of each voice can be played as a demo.

[…]

Apple will also include other language voices for the first time, including Saudi Arabian Arabic Maged; Chinese voices representing a Mainland China Ting-Ting, Hong Kong Sin-Ji, and Taiwan Ya-Ling; Czech Zuzana; Danish Ida; Belgian Dutch Ellen; Netherlands Dutch Claire and Xander; Finnish Mikko; French Canadian Felix and Julie; French Sebastien, Thomas and Virginie; German Anna, Steffi and Yannick; Greek Alexandros; Hindi Lekha; Hungarian Eszter; Indonesian Damayanti; Italian Paolo and Silvia; Japanese Kyoko; Korean Narae; Norwegian Stine; Polish Agata; Brazilian Portugese Raquel; Portugese Joana; Romanian Simona; Russian Milena; Slovak Laura; Mexican Spanish Javier and Paulina; Spanish Diego and Monica; Swedish Alva and Oskar; Thai Narisa; and Turkish Aylin.

At the link they have recordings of the new voices. The “South African English” Tessa sounds pretty good. The Japanese Kyoko though sounds a little bit robotic.

Neat!

350 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:44:25am

I fear the day when I will be able to speak with a computer and not realize that it is indeed a computer on the other side.

351 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:04:18am

re: #350 freetoken

I fear the day when I will be able to speak with a computer and not realize that it is indeed a computer on the other side.

I look forward to that day. I think a lot of the more intractable problems of mankind can be solved only with trusted AI.

Trusted being the key part, of course.

352 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:05:00am

re: #350 freetoken
Challenge it to a round of “Jeopardy”: if it wins, ýou are talking either to a computer or to a Wisconsin senator.

353 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:12:34am

Good Morning Lizards!

Interesting Point/Counterpoint on Newsweek regarding unions.

Do We Still Need Unions? Yes
Why they’re worth fighting for.

Do We Still Need Unions? No.
Let’s end a privileged class.

354 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:14:44am

re: #336 freetoken

Australian politicians worry about the Americanization of their politics - i.e., the move towards violence:

Windsor calls for calm after death threats

Recommend reading the whole article.

Australia has very poor energy policy. Which is terrible, given that it’s a nation that has a very delicate climate and cannot sustain profligate energy use or stupid farming practices.

But politically, the country works. Mandatory and preferential voting marginalises kooks, and allows the government to actually do things in the public interest. Religion and politics barely intersect, robbing the fundie nutjobs of a power base. And while Australians are human, and thus just as susceptible to demagoguery and FOX-style lies, there’s no all-pervasive media to create the fake worlds that exist here in the states.

The last conservative Prime Minister, John Howard, led the country for over a decade, and his government’s policies are essentially responsible for Australia surviving the recessions of the last decade almost entirely intact. It is worth noting that ‘conservatives’ in Australian politics are nothing like American conservatives - their policies would be considered so far left that nobody would ever accept them, because the sacred cows of the American right are nothing more than tasty hamburger for the barbie. For instance, abortion does not figure in the national conversation, and the benefits of universal health care are so obvious that nobody would consider seriously denting it. Similarly, even our most conservative governments have aggressively curtailed gun ownership, with full support of the populace, who know that they are safer for it. Most importantly, Australian conservative governments are actually fiscally responsible, unlike the American right, and their fiscal policy is so clearly good that even the Labor governments say ‘we won’t change fiscal policy’ when they run.

The Howard government was voted out after a decade of excellent money management not because of scandal - they had survived scandal. A large reason they were voted out was because John Howard kept trying to introduce American-style wedge politics into the national conversation, and people were put off. Issues such as national pledges of allegiance, flying a lot of flags, and making gay marriage an issue. I remember when gay marriage suddenly hit the front pages - nobody had even considered it an issue till that moment, and suddenly our prime minister was talking about it like it was of critical importance. Even the most hardcore conservatives I knew were all ‘WTF?’

Australia has many issues, such as immigration and the aforementioned energy policy. It is far from perfect on these and other things. But because its political system works, and marginalises extremism, I have confidence that it will find a way to navigate them.

355 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:25:27am

re: #353 rwdflynavy


Nobody seems to mind when people band together to create a corporation, which allows for collective bargaining on the part of the employer.

Yes, unions are big money. So are big corporations. And compared to the latter, they are chump change.

Yes, they redistribute wealth. Why is that such an abhorrent concept? They redistribute wealth to those who work to earn it.

Yes, they influence voting, but our Supreme Court also allows corporations to annonymously contribute to campaigns and influence not only voters, but politicians directly.

356 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:32:40am

re: #355 ralphieboy

That’s the essential point that needs to be restated over and over: Corporations are always working from a position of collective bargaining.

357 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:33:11am

re: #354 Renaissance_Man

And while Australians are human, and thus just as susceptible to demagoguery and FOX-style lies,

Legend has it that none other than Rupert Murdoch himself sprung from the loins of Australia.

358 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:34:11am

re: #355 ralphieboy

Nobody seems to mind when people band together to create a corporation, which allows for collective bargaining on the part of the employer.

Yes, unions are big money. So are big corporations. And compared to the latter, they are chump change.Yes, they redistribute wealth. Why is that such an abhorrent concept? They redistribute wealth to those who work to earn it.

Yes, they influence voting, but our Supreme Court also allows corporations to annonymously contribute to campaigns and influence not only voters, but politicians directly.

I found this quote from the second article telling:
“Of the top 20 biggest givers in federal-level politics over the past 20 years, 10 are unions; just four are corporations. The three biggest public unions gave $171.5 million for the 2010 elections alone, according to The Wall Street Journal. That’s big money.”

Not exactly “chump change”.

359 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:36:35am

re: #358 rwdflynavy

It’s comparing apples to oranges, though: Unions can have workers that span many corporations.

Total corporate vs. total union spending would be a better comparison, rather than the top figures, which are always going to skew towards the unions.

360 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:39:04am

re: #358 rwdflynavy

I found this quote from the second article telling:
“Of the top 20 biggest givers in federal-level politics over the past 20 years, 10 are unions; just four are corporations. The three biggest public unions gave $171.5 million for the 2010 elections alone, according to The Wall Street Journal. That’s big money.”

Not exactly “chump change”.

That’s not much more than Meg Whitman took out of her own (corporate-provided) pocket. Even one failed governors’s race can eat a couple hundred million.

361 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:40:02am

‘Morning, all.

362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:41:20am

re: #359 Obdicut

But, why would unions give more than corporations?

363 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:41:49am

re: #350 freetoken

I fear the day when I will be able to speak with a computer and not realize that it is indeed a computer on the other side.

There is something about the “chirpy female voice” in automated systems that fills me with frothing rage. When they don’t give you the option of pushing a button but require voice commands like you’re supposed to think that you’re talking to an actual human being, I just want to punch out someone’s lights.

AAA and Gap.com have these systems. I have let them know just how much they utterly suck. AAA especially because when I have been in a car accident I don’t want to chat with a freaking robot.

364 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:44:25am

re: #363 Alouette

Yep. I always choose the button-pushing option if it’s available. Not to mention that if I’m in public, I feel like an idiot saying “Other options” in an overly-loud, clear voice, five times in a row.

365 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:47:35am

re: #362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But, why would unions give more than corporations?

I don’t think that they do. I think that unions, by their nature, are very large organizations, and then tend to do their giving directly rather than indirectly— i.e., unlike the Koch brothers, not by funding a bunch of little fake ‘industry groups’ to lobby, but doing it directly.

I, personally, think we have a huge fucking problem with money in politics in the US. I don’t want unions to be able to spend the money to influence politicians, I don’t want corporations and their fake front groups to do so, either. I’m agin’ all of it.

But comparing numbers on unions, who can have millions of members, versus individual corporations on giving is comparing things of vastly different scale. The only measurement that would make sense would be all corporate giving vs. all union giving. The much better measurement would be all spending, including money given to 503(c)’s, to the lobbyist groups, to propaganda outlets, etc. etc.

366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:48:07am

re: #364 Obdicut

Those systems aggravate the crap out of me, but, even when they’re not so good, VRT is still mind blowing.

It is a freaking machine that can understand language!

367 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:48:10am

re: #363 Alouette

There is something about the “chirpy female voice” in automated systems that fills me with frothing rage. When they don’t give you the option of pushing a button but require voice commands like you’re supposed to think that you’re talking to an actual human being, I just want to punch out someone’s lights.

AAA and Gap.com have these systems. I have let them know just how much they utterly suck. AAA especially because when I have been in a car accident I don’t want to chat with a freaking robot.

I wouldn’t mind it so much if the automated voice-recognition systems could tell the difference between “yes” and “no” with greater than 50% accuracy.

It would also help if they didn’t waste your time explaining that, if you mean “yes”, say “yes”, while if you mean “no”, say “no”.

368 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:54:51am

re: #365 Obdicut

There are really two sides to the question:

A) how much political buying power does a given individual have in raw dollars (one would assume that this is proportional to wealth, including income)?

B) what is the actual buying power of that dollar amount, in terms of votes swayed (i.e., how many votes does a $500K advertising campaign buy, all else being equal) and of consequent political influence?

I think that people currently focus on A at the expense of B, which is the more interesting aspect IMO. Everyone knows that the Koch brothers can plow money into politics, but what does this get them? Phone calls to Governor Walker, at least.

If you answer B, you can start to ask people whether they really want to live in a country in which they may end up going to jail purely because they have less money than someone else.

369 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:55:50am

re: #366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those systems aggravate the crap out of me, but, even when they’re not so good, VRT is still mind blowing.

It is a freaking machine that can understand language!

These systems suck. I don’t care how complex and awesome the technology is, the chirpier these voices are does not make up for the fact that the voice on the other end IS A FREAKING MACHINE. I don’t want to CHIT-CHAT to a FREAKING MACHINE. You can instruct a machine with buttons, there is no need to carry on a bogus “conversation.”

370 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:58:36am

re: #354 Renaissance_Man

Australia has very poor energy policy. Which is terrible, given that it’s a nation that has a very delicate climate and cannot sustain profligate energy use or stupid farming practices.

But politically, the country works. Mandatory and preferential voting marginalises kooks, and allows the government to actually do things in the public interest. Religion and politics barely intersect, robbing the fundie nutjobs of a power base. And while Australians are human, and thus just as susceptible to demagoguery and FOX-style lies, there’s no all-pervasive media to create the fake worlds that exist here in the states.

The last conservative Prime Minister, John Howard, led the country for over a decade, and his government’s policies are essentially responsible for Australia surviving the recessions of the last decade almost entirely intact. It is worth noting that ‘conservatives’ in Australian politics are nothing like American conservatives - their policies would be considered so far left that nobody would ever accept them, because the sacred cows of the American right are nothing more than tasty hamburger for the barbie. For instance, abortion does not figure in the national conversation, and the benefits of universal health care are so obvious that nobody would consider seriously denting it. Similarly, even our most conservative governments have aggressively curtailed gun ownership, with full support of the populace, who know that they are safer for it. Most importantly, Australian conservative governments are actually fiscally responsible, unlike the American right, and their fiscal policy is so clearly good that even the Labor governments say ‘we won’t change fiscal policy’ when they run.

The Howard government was voted out after a decade of excellent money management not because of scandal - they had survived scandal. A large reason they were voted out was because John Howard kept trying to introduce American-style wedge politics into the national conversation, and people were put off. Issues such as national pledges of allegiance, flying a lot of flags, and making gay marriage an issue. I remember when gay marriage suddenly hit the front pages - nobody had even considered it an issue till that moment, and suddenly our prime minister was talking about it like it was of critical importance. Even the most hardcore conservatives I knew were all ‘WTF?’

Australia has many issues, such as immigration and the aforementioned energy policy. It is far from perfect on these and other things. But because its political system works, and marginalises extremism, I have confidence that it will find a way to navigate them.

I understand that for America to be more economically competitive, we need to export more. But I really hope our leading export isn’t going to be our right-wing politics. That would suck.

371 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:01:42am

re: #363 Alouette

I made my wife turn off the female voice in our GPS: I told her I was not about to be taking directions from any female unless I could argue back.

Although all in all, the results are about the same…

372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:06:44am

re: #369 Alouette

Virginia 511 is a VRT system that I can use to check traffic and weather conditions. Takes no person (that the govt has to hire) and gives me the information.

The best thing about VRT? To me? Once your used to the cadence of the systems, you can interrupt the system without being rude to a person.

I called an office recently and the nonsensical way the human was required to answer (took 15 seconds), you know, something like, “Good Morning. Welcome to the ABC Company, where the customer is always first! This is Facility Gusthavson, it is my pleasure to assist you”.

I had to call three times that day, Facility answered every time, by the third time, I was violent.

I should probably switch to decaf.

373 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:06:52am

re: #371 ralphieboy

I made my wife turn off the female voice in our GPS: I told her I was not about to be taking directions from any female unless I could argue back.

Although all in all, the results are about the same…

I’m surprised that the results wasn’t that she smacked you in the head for that remark.

374 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:07:01am

re: #371 ralphieboy

I made my wife turn off the female voice in our GPS: I told her I was not about to be taking directions from any female unless I could argue back.

Although all in all, the results are about the same…

I don’t mind hearing a voice giving directions in the navigation system. What sends me over the edge is the illusion of carrying on a conversation. By the time I do get an actual human on the line, I tend to be very angry and rude with them, when they are really not at fault.

My two co-workers in the cubicles on both sides of me, spend their entire days taking calls from disgruntled customers, and they have to keep their voices mellow and laid back.

375 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:08:56am

re: #372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Virginia 511 is a VRT system that I can use to check traffic and weather conditions. Takes no person (that the govt has to hire) and gives me the information.

The best thing about VRT? To me? Once your used to the cadence of the systems, you can interrupt the system without being rude to a person.

I called an office recently and the nonsensical way the human was required to answer (took 15 seconds), you know, something like, “Good Morning. Welcome to the ABC Company, where the customer is always first! This is Facility Gusthavson, it is my pleasure to assist you”.

I had to call three times that day, Facility answered every time, by the third time, I was violent.

I should probably switch to decaf.

They are required to stick to the script, because all calls may be monitored for quality assurance. Deviating from the script can lead to points off on their performance review.

376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:09:36am

re: #371 ralphieboy

I made my wife turn off the female voice in our GPS: I told her I was not about to be taking directions from any female unless I could argue back.

Although all in all, the results are about the same…

I want one I can program to speak sarcastically.

Something like, “Oh! I see you know a better way, I don’t even know why you bought me…”

377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:10:02am

re: #375 Alouette

(but not a machine)

378 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:11:22am

re: #372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When I used to work in a more technical role, we reverse-engineered the list of questions that our supplier’s phone monkeys had to ask when we called in faulty parts.

“Hi, this is Iossarian from Dumdum IT. Yes, No, Yes, Yes, Level 3, Yes. So we’ll expect the part by Tuesday then? KTHXBYE.”

379 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:12:49am

re: #377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(but not a machine)

Another pet peeve of mine, but doesn’t happen much any more since I got on the “no calls” list, is the telemarketer who begins each conversation with “How are you today?”

My response was usually “Why do you give a fuck?” or “My dog just died!”

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:18:24am

re: #371 ralphieboy

[Link: www.cracked.com…]

381 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:21:12am

How about Marvin from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy>/i> as a GPS voice?

“Here I am, a brain the size of a planet and you are asking me to calculate the shortest route to the nearest Taco Bell…”

382 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:26:50am

re: #381 ralphieboy

How about Marvin from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy; as a GPS voice?

“Here I am, a brain the size of a planet and you are asking me to calculate the shortest route to the nearest Taco Bell…”

FORD:
Hey Marvin!

MARVIN:
What do you want?

FORD:
Give Zaphod a yell will you?

MARVIN:
Ahhh. Mind-taxing time again is it?

FORD:
Just get on with it.

MARVIN:
I’ve just worked out an answer to the square root of minus one.

FORD:
Go and get Zaphod.

MARVIN:
It’s never been worked out before. It’s always been thought impossible.

FORD:
Go and get -

MARVIN:
I’m going. Pausing only to reconstruct the whole infrastructure of integral mathematics in his head, he went about his humble task. Never thinking to ask for reward, recognition, or even a moment’s ease from the terrible pain in all the diodes down his left side. “Fetch Beeblebrox,” they say, and forth he goes.

[Door hums open]

ARTHUR:
Don’t you think we should do something for him?

FORD:
Hmm… we could rip out his voice-box for a start.

383 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:35:59am

Amazon reveals iPad 2 price and specs

384 Flounder  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:41:59am

re: #381 ralphieboy
For shits and giggles, I would like my GPS to have the voice of Ozzie Osbourne!

385 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:45:06am

re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I want one I can program to speak sarcastically.

Something like, “Oh! I see you know a better way, I don’t even know why you bought me…”

I love making that bitch recalculate. I giggle every time.

386 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:46:50am

I’m reading the Al Jazeera live-blog of what is happening in Libya. You all might want to read this for the insanity factor.

Example

They showed pictures of this palace in Baida as if it were mine. It was a grant from the people of Libya. It was you who gave me this, you who built this. My people of Libya have granted me homes in each city of Libya.

387 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:48:05am

re: #384 Shropshire_Slasher

For shits and giggles, I would like my GPS to have the voice of Ozzie Osbourne!

He would just send you down the rails on a crazy train…

388 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:49:46am

Surprised this didn’t get more coverage here:

Assange Complains of Jewish Smear Campaign

A report published by a British magazine on Tuesday said the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, suggested that British journalists, including the editor of The Guardian, were engaged in a Jewish-led conspiracy to smear his organization.

[…]

389 Flounder  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:50:47am

re: #383 freetoken
Ok, what is a Thunderbolt port and why do I want it?

390 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:50:49am

Assange claims:

In the Twitter feed, Mr. Assange said that “in particular” the Private Eye report that he believed in a “ ‘Jewish conspiracy’ is false, in spirit and in word. It is serious and upsetting. Rather than correct a smear, Mr. Hislop has tried to justify one smear with another.”

The problem is, at this point I don’t know who to believe.

391 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:51:23am

re: #389 Shropshire_Slasher

Ok, what is a Thunderbolt port and why do I want it?

It turns you into Thor.

Complete with cape and tights.

392 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:52:27am

re: #390 freetoken

I think I just wrote one of my very best bits on AGW.

Charybdis and Scylla: Sane risk management with AGW

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

I would like your opinions.

393 Flounder  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:52:43am

re: #391 freetoken

Oh good, I already have the tights
MUFFINTOP BABY!!!

394 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:58:53am

re: #389 Shropshire_Slasher

Ok, what is a Thunderbolt port and why do I want it?

It is a new connection developed at Intel. It is sort of like USB, but it is really fast, can be copper or fiber optic, can daisy chain devices without a hub, can supply video to a monitor using an existing standard, etc. Good stuff.

There is a bunch of information on Intel’s site: [Link: www.intel.com…]

395 darthstar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:59:33am

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

I think I just wrote one of my very best bits on AGW.

Charybdis and Scylla: Sane risk management with AGW

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

I would like your opinions.

I’ll check it out. Scylla and Charybdis were two of my favorite characters from the Odyssey…though truth be told I probably would have been a lotus eater myself.

396 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:01:34am

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote


I would like your opinions.

Monty Hall.

397 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:03:51am

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

After coffee.

398 freetoken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:04:02am

re: #395 darthstar

Say that there are 60 crewmen on Odysseus’s ship. Say that the odds of getting past Charybdis are 1/5. The whole ship goes down if they fail. That gives everyone aboard a 1/5 chance of death.

Needs re-written. If “getting past” == lived, then then there is a 4/5 chance of death.

I think you meant “getting sucked down” instead of “getting past”

399 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:04:17am

re: #391 freetoken

It turns you into Thor.

Complete with cape and tights.

Ride the lightning!

400 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:05:11am

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

I think I just wrote one of my very best bits on AGW.

Charybdis and Scylla: Sane risk management with AGW

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

I would like your opinions.

Starting off with the classics? I must say I will definitely take a look. But it must wait until tomorrow. I’m still trying to turn off my brain and go to sleep, lol.

401 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:16:23am

Here’s why I love the government. During the Bush admin. they made some minor changes to the way they regulate water runoff. What it’s meant for me is that even in Colorado (44th driest state!) they have to build a 15’ deep retention pond to handle the runoff from a fast food restaurant. That means a $20k handrail system to keep people from falling in. God Bless America!

402 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:17:25am

re: #385 rwdflynavy

I love making that bitch recalculate. I giggle every time.

Have you done much with that Tasker app?

403 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:19:13am

re: #402 RogueOne

Have you done much with that Tasker app?

I have it programmed to turn on the GPS when I place my phone in the Car holder or any time I start up any app that uses GPS. Kinda stupid that doesn’t happen automatically. Otherwise haven’t done much with it…

404 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:24:20am

re: #403 rwdflynavy

I have it programmed to turn on the GPS when I place my phone in the Car holder or any time I start up any app that uses GPS. Kinda stupid that doesn’t happen automatically. Otherwise haven’t done much with it…

Supposedly If you leave your GPS on it won’t access it unless your using an app that needs it anyway. I only have 6 active profiles. I found a way to get it to read my text messages to me if I have my headphones (regular or bluetooth) connected, very handy if you’re working with your hands and don’t want to touch the phone to see if the message is important or not.

405 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:34:23am

Morning, all.

Wildly OT: yesterday, I had a chance to visit the WTC construction site. That is an amazing place.

WTC 1 is now up to about 50 stories (I made it to 48 where they are pouring concrete for the core), the memorial space is looking pretty good (they are planting trees already), the museum is coming along, the transit hub is making progress, and there is a giant mud pit where the Deutsch Bank building was.

Some fun stats:

They have a crane with a million pound counterweight that they use for the heaviest lifts of big steel.

There are more big cranes deployed there than in the rest of Manhattan combined.

Despite it being a very active construction site, what with two skyscrapers, a memorial, a museum, a transit hub, and a vehicle security center all being built simultaneously, they still move nearly a half-million commuters through the site every business day, since the downtown PATH station is right in the middle of things.

Way cool.

406 kirkspencer  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:35:37am

re: #39 Simply Sarah

…except that all these cuts now could bring the minimal recovery we having going now to a complete halt and then reverse things, which would result in even larger budget shortfalls in the future when the failing economy results in less revenue and when we need to spend more on safety net programs.

700,000 would up the unemployment rate by about half a percent - from its current 9.0 to ~9.5%. By Okun’s Rule of Thumb that gives us a ~-1% impact on GDP over the same period the unemployment changes. In other words if the unemployment happens all in one quarter the real annualized effect on GDP would be -4% (approximate). There is a cascade effect from that steep a drop as well if action isn’t taken to correct it. That means if the government doesn’t act to stimulate, the quarter after that plunge would also decline.

Okun’s rule of thumb (Okun’s “law”) is a guideline developed by observation, not theory. When unemployment goes up, GDP goes down, and the ratio is ~1:-2 (ie, a 1% increase in unemployment matches a ~2% decline in GDP.) It isn’t a perfect correlation, there are exceptions, but it’s consistent enough to be used the same way we can predict rain if the sky is mostly filled with heavy black clouds.

407 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:49:15am

re: #390 freetoken

As a fan of Wikileaks, and an Englishman, I go by the Private Eye rule. “If in doubt, go with Hislop.”

408 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:50:14am
Sixty-three percent of Republicans said a shutdown would be a good thing, and 28 percent said it would be a bad thing. Among Democrats, those numbers are reversed, with 62 percent saying a shutdown would be bad and 28 percent saying it would be good.

Republicans don’t give a shit or are really really stupid

409 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:53:39am

re: #408 Naso Tang

Republicans don’t give a shit or are really really stupid

Once again, the Team Stupid/Team Evil analysis applies.

410 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:54:47am

re: #409 garhighway

Once again, the Team Stupid/Team Evil analysis applies.

In general:

Evil at the top. Stupid at the bottom. In many cases, like Palin, both.

411 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 6:58:59am

re: #407 harlequinade

As a fan of Wikileaks, and an Englishman, I go by the Private Eye rule. “If in doubt, go with Hislop.”

That sounds contradictory, but then so is the principle of Wikileaks, so perhaps it is not.

412 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:05:57am

re: #399 rwdflynavy

Ride the Lightning?

Youtube Video

Absolutely!

413 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:07:23am

re: #411 Naso Tang

While not treading old ground - I think the principle of Wikileaks is sound. I think the investigative journalism of Private Eye is astounding.

So - if I had to side with one over the other - it’d be the esteemed organ, the Eye

414 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:08:14am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

It’s yet another bad day to be a free speech proponent in Pakistan as a government minister was assassinated because he supported repealing the country’s anti-blasphemy laws. That’s the second such official to be assassinated this year who backed the repeal.

415 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:13:11am

re: #410 LudwigVanQuixote

In general:

Evil at the top. Stupid at the bottom. In many cases, like Palin, both.

My problem with Palin is she is not even sexy enough to be so stupid.

416 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:14:00am

re: #407 harlequinade

As a fan of Wikileaks, and an Englishman, I go by the Private Eye rule. “If in doubt, go with Hislop.”

I tend to agree, though Private Eye can be somewhat self-satisfied.

417 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:14:33am

Supreme Court rules in favor of Phelps

418 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:15:18am

re: #405 garhighway

I think you’re short changing the 1WTC/Freedom Tower by a bit. It’s closer to 60 stories right now (and rising at about 30 feet a week). 4WTC, the tower diagonally across from the Freedom Tower is about 20-stories tall. Both of those towers have 3 tower cranes working on them and the Freedom Tower’s 3d tower crane is actually a crawler that runs up the side of the building with the express purpose of delivering concrete to the floors. That’s an engineering marvel in its own right.

I’ve counted at least 18 cranes on the site, with 10 of them being tower cranes, and several of them in the super-lift category (necessary to lift the massive beams for the transit hub and other key components.

It’s amazing to behold - and some of the more amazing scenes are below ground where you can’t see the work to build the transit hub and the other Ground Zero components - all while keeping the PATH system operating on a normal schedule.

[Link: www.panynj.gov…]

[Link: www.national911memorial.org…]

419 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:16:15am

re: #417 Simply Sarah

Supreme Court rules in favor of Phelps

Fuck.

420 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:20:23am

re: #418 lawhawk

I think you’re short changing the 1WTC/Freedom Tower by a bit. It’s closer to 60 stories right now (and rising at about 30 feet a week). 4WTC, the tower diagonally across from the Freedom Tower is about 20-stories tall. Both of those towers have 3 tower cranes working on them and the Freedom Tower’s 3d tower crane is actually a crawler that runs up the side of the building with the express purpose of delivering concrete to the floors. That’s an engineering marvel in its own right.

I’ve counted at least 18 cranes on the site, with 10 of them being tower cranes, and several of them in the super-lift category (necessary to lift the massive beams for the transit hub and other key components.

It’s amazing to behold - and some of the more amazing scenes are below ground where you can’t see the work to build the transit hub and the other Ground Zero components - all while keeping the PATH system operating on a normal schedule.

[Link: www.panynj.gov…]

[Link: www.national911memorial.org…]

I’m not sure how they count. What I was on was labeled 48, and was billed to me as the lowest floor still getting poured.

Some of the beams coming in soon for the transit hub will be among the largest ever lifted in NYC. The hub, when completed, will allow you to walk from the Wintergarden at the WFC to the Fulton Street subway station without going outside, and will connect all of it: the WTC complex, the PATH, the 1/9, and the Fulton St station with its 3 subway lines.

421 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:22:35am

re: #419 LudwigVanQuixote

Fuck.

I think people really need to start thinking about why they make a distinction between the sounds coming out of someone’s mouth and other physical manifestations of that person’s will.

This whole obsession with “speech” is bullshit both on a philosophical level and also at the practical level, where it’s a significant enabler of political corruption.

I am, however, “not a lawyer”, so I would be happy to learn of instances where speech can indeed be considered assault, and more specifically to be enlightened on the details and ramifications of this particular SC decision.

422 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:22:56am

re: #408 Naso Tang

Republicans don’t give a shit or are really really stupid

The awesome thing about that poll?

It says the majority of republicans think that a shutdown would be a good thing.

It also says that a majority of Republicans think that it would be Obama’s responsibility, that there was a shutdown.

So they want to blame him for something they’d see as a good thing.

Looney tunes.

423 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:23:37am

re: #416 iossarian

oh absolutely! Have you ever seen Have I Got News For You? Hislop’s on there being Smug for the whole of Europe. I was always terribly impressed he didn’t get punched just for that Air of Smugness :D

424 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:26:48am

re: #419 LudwigVanQuixote

Fuck.

I’ll be honest here. I detest Phelps with a passion, as he’s a bigot, spiteful, heartless, and an affront to real Christians. That being said, I’m glad he won this case, as heart-wrenching as it is to feel that way. A key part of having the right to free speech is allowing people to say things that are very unpopular and viewed as disgusting.

As hard as it may be, that also means suffering through people like Phelps. The saying goes “hard cases make bad law” and that was a big concern here, where the emotional nature of the case at hand would result in some sort of shrinking of the Free Speech Clause that could have negative results on other, more reasonable speech. I understand that it’s hard to see the bastard get away with this (And trust me, I their actions make me beyond furious), but I, at least, feel that it is a price that must be paid for the right of freedom of speech.

425 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:27:07am

re: #421 iossarian

I think people really need to start thinking about why they make a distinction between the sounds coming out of someone’s mouth and other physical manifestations of that person’s will.

This whole obsession with “speech” is bullshit both on a philosophical level and also at the practical level, where it’s a significant enabler of political corruption.

I am, however, “not a lawyer”, so I would be happy to learn of instances where speech can indeed be considered assault, and more specifically to be enlightened on the details and ramifications of this particular SC decision.

I do not understand why Phelps’ “demonstrations” are not considered assault and invasion of privacy.

426 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:28:44am

re: #415 Walter L. Newton

My problem with Palin is she is not even sexy enough to be so stupid.

Someone on Politico thinks she’s too smart:

Bachmann a viable W.H. candidate?

She “will appeal to those who like Sarah Palin but wish she would be a little less intellectual.”

[Link: www.politico.com…]

427 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:30:23am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

I’ll be honest here. I detest Phelps with a passion, as he’s a bigot, spiteful, heartless, and an affront to real Christians. That being said, I’m glad he won this case, as heart-wrenching as it is to feel that way. A key part of having the right to free speech is allowing people to say things that are very unpopular and viewed as disgusting.

As hard as it may be, that also means suffering through people like Phelps. The saying goes “hard cases make bad law” and that was a big concern here, where the emotional nature of the case at hand would result in some sort of shrinking of the Free Speech Clause that could have negative results on other, more reasonable speech. I understand that it’s hard to see the bastard get away with this (And trust me, I their actions make me beyond furious), but I, at least, feel that it is a price that must be paid for the right of freedom of speech.


I can see your point. As a member of the military, I absolutely hate to see anyone burning the American flag. That being said, I am proud to defend a country that enjoys that level of freedom. Despite how I feel about burning the flag, I’m glad it is a legal expression of free speech.

Also, Phelps and his clan are douchenozzles.

428 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:30:43am

re: #414 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

It’s yet another bad day to be a free speech proponent in Pakistan as a government minister was assassinated because he supported repealing the country’s anti-blasphemy laws. That’s the second such official to be assassinated this year who backed the repeal.

Latest photo results from Daylife

429 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:31:13am

re: #423 harlequinade

oh absolutely! Have you ever seen Have I Got News For You? Hislop’s on there being Smug for the whole of Europe. I was always terribly impressed he didn’t get punched just for that Air of Smugness :D

See, I don’t mind Hislop in person as much as I mind the print smugness (and even that I don’t mind all that much).

I think it’s because he’s (mostly) on my side of the issues, and also quite unthreatening in that jolly little gnome way of his. It’s not unrelated to the fact that Private Eye grew out of a school newspaper, and still retains that tension between mocking the jocks and craving their approval/acceptance.

430 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:31:55am

re: #420 garhighway

The floor count starts at 20 - which is above the mechanical spaces at the base (the part not being shrouded in windows at the moment). The tower height if based on standard 10 foot stories is closer to 60, but everyone has a different measure of height when it comes to skyscrapers (highest floor being poured is less than the highest floor steel erected (etc.). A NYT story a while back commented on the halfway point (whether by floors completed or physical height or height to the pinnacle of the antenna). Still, it must have been pretty spectacular to see the site from up there though. A good friend of mine was up there a few months ago, back when the tower was in the 20s.

He marveled at the way they were building the core - and that the steel rebar for the core is off the charts for size.

431 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:32:23am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

I’ll be honest here. I detest Phelps with a passion, as he’s a bigot, spiteful, heartless, and an affront to real Christians. That being said, I’m glad he won this case, as heart-wrenching as it is to feel that way. A key part of having the right to free speech is allowing people to say things that are very unpopular and viewed as disgusting.

As hard as it may be, that also means suffering through people like Phelps. The saying goes “hard cases make bad law” and that was a big concern here, where the emotional nature of the case at hand would result in some sort of shrinking of the Free Speech Clause that could have negative results on other, more reasonable speech. I understand that it’s hard to see the bastard get away with this (And trust me, I their actions make me beyond furious), but I, at least, feel that it is a price that must be paid for the right of freedom of speech.

I hear your points. I truly do. Normally, I would be inclined to agree with them and say that in general, no-one has a right to never be offended.

It isn’t a matter of that I think. I think the right of a grieving family to grieve in peace should also be protected and that outweighs the right to unrestricted free speech by outsiders at a funeral.

At some point, the law must take common decency into account as well.

432 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:32:43am

I would also highly suggest to anyone interested in the case and the reasoning behind the ruling that they read the opinions (Or, at least, the Syllabus). Perhaps I’m projecting my own thinking here, but that is generally a pretty good way to get a decent idea of the reasoning, and probably does a better job than I’d be able to do.(And Snyder v. Phelps is not a particularly long decision, as far as Supreme Court cases go).

433 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:33:41am

Better late than never….
Pope Benedict Exonerates Jews For Jesus’ Death In New Book

434 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:34:09am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

That’s exactly right - the 1st Amendment is not simply about protecting speech we like, but political speech we dislike. The court acknowledged as much, and that the Church, for all its odious statements, conformed to local rules about time and place to carry out their protests, and thus were protected in their free speech.

The best way to fight the hateful speech is with more speech, which is why the counter-protests are so important.

435 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:34:22am

re: #425 Alouette

I do not understand why Phelps’ “demonstrations” are not considered assault and invasion of privacy.

OK, I just read the SCOTUS decision in which it explains specifically why it is not assault and invasion of privacy.

436 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:34:35am

Image: 999x.jpg

The body of assassinated minority minister Shahbaz Bhatti is carried from a hospital after he was killed in Islamabad on March 2, 2011. A group of gunmen shot dead on Wednesday Pakistan’s minister for minorities, a Christian, making him the second senior official to be killed this year for challenging a blasphemy law under which anyone who speaks ill of Islam faces the death penalt.

437 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:36:11am

re: #429 iossarian

I think it’s because he’s (mostly) on my side of the issues, and also quite unthreatening in that jolly little gnome way of his.

I absolutely agree. That’s my stance with it. But as I read that all I could think was “Is that by Boris Johnson is such a buffoon? Because he’s not on my side of the issues.” But I’m thinking it’s probably because he’s just a buffoon :)

438 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:36:35am

re: #428 Gus 802

I’m going to incorporate a couple of those into an update. Thanks!

439 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:36:39am

re: #413 harlequinade

While not treading old ground - I think the principle of Wikileaks is sound. I think the investigative journalism of Private Eye is astounding.

So - if I had to side with one over the other - it’d be the esteemed organ, the Eye

We have always had the principle of information leaks available, as well as the recognition in principle that with information goes responsibility.

Wikileaks is sound only to self serving anarchists like Assange and little teenybopper hackers on the internet. I know that type of thinking. I had it too when I was a child and when knew how to solve all problems.

As to Private Eye, I’m glad it is still going. I used to be a fan when I lived over there.

440 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:36:49am

re: #434 lawhawk

That’s exactly right - the 1st Amendment is not simply about protecting speech we like, but political speech we dislike. The court acknowledged as much, and that the Church, for all its odious statements, conformed to local rules about time and place to carry out their protests, and thus were protected in their free speech.

The best way to fight the hateful speech is with more speech, which is why the counter-protests are so important.

OK again I get that, but what about the basic right (in the sense of common decency that everyone understands) to not have your private family affairs turned into public spectacles by drooling outsiders?

441 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:36:54am

Abundant ammonia aids life’s origins
Arizona State University
March 01, 2011

An important discovery has been made with respect to the possible inventory
of molecules available to the early Earth. Scientists led by Sandra
Pizzarello, a research professor at Arizona State University, found large
amounts of ammonia in a primitive Antarctic asteroid. This high
concentration of ammonia could account for a sustained source of reduced
nitrogen essential to the chemistry of life.

[Link: asunews.asu.edu…]

(Neat… I have a small fragment of a CR2 type meteorite… they are one of the more fascinating varieties of rocks from space. See Carbonaceous chondrites at Wiki [Link: en.wikipedia.org…] )

442 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:37:57am

re: #408 Naso Tang


They are convinced that it would be blamed on the Democrats, which would be worth the shutdown, as opposed to 1995, when it all backfired on Bush I.

443 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:38:12am

BTW - congrats to all those that made the retweet top 10 list. Well deserved recognition!

444 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:38:15am

re: #422 Obdicut

The awesome thing about that poll?

It says the majority of republicans think that a shutdown would be a good thing.

It also says that a majority of Republicans think that it would be Obama’s responsibility, that there was a shutdown.

So they want to blame him for something they’d see as a good thing.

Looney tunes.

Good point.

445 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:39:03am

re: #439 Naso Tang

We have always had the principle of information leaks available, as well as the recognition in principle that with information goes responsibility.

Wikileaks is the 21st Century version of that availability. Regardless of what you think of Assange, what it does is, and I apologize to the web savvy for this, web2.0 the idea of the leak.

446 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:39:46am

Image: 999x.jpg

A Pakistani Christian woman reacts to the death of Pakistan’s government minister for religious minorities Shahbaz Bhatti during a rally in Lahore, Pakistan on Wednesday, March 2, 2011. Gunmen shot and killed Bhatti, the latest attack on a high-profile Pakistani figure threatened by Islamist militants for urging reform of harsh blasphemy laws that impose the death penalty for insulting Islam.

447 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:39:56am

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

OK again I get that, but what about the basic right (in the sense of common decency that everyone understands) to not have your private family affairs turned into public spectacles by drooling outsiders?

To quote a bit from the syllabus:

That said, “ ‘[e]ven protected speech is not equally permissible in all places and at all times.’ ” Frisby v. Schultz, 487 U. S. 474, 479. Westboro’s choice of where and when to conduct its picketing is not beyond the Government’s regulatory reach—it is “subject to reason-able time, place, or manner restrictions.” Clark v. Community for Creative Non-Violence, 468 U. S. 288, 293. The facts here are quite different, however, both with respect to the activity being regulated and the means of restricting those activities, from the few limited situations where the Court has concluded that the location of targeted picketing can be properly regulated under provisions deemed content neutral. Frisby, supra, at 477; Madsen v. Women’s Health Center, Inc., 512 U. S. 753, 768, distinguished. Maryland now has a law restricting funeral picketing but that law was not in effect at the time of these events, so this Court has no occasion to consider whether that law is a “reasonable time, place, or manner restrictio[n]” under the standards announced by this Court. Clark, supra,at 293. Pp. 10–12.
The “special protection” afforded to what Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was “outrageous” for purposes of applying the state law tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress. That would pose too great a danger that the jury would punish Westboro for its views on matters of public concern. For all these reasons, the jury verdict imposing tort liability on Westboro for intentional infliction of emotional distress must be set aside. Pp. 12–13.
(b) Snyder also may not recover for the tort of intrusion upon seclusion. He argues that he was a member of a captive audience at his son’s funeral, but the captive audience doctrine—which has been applied sparingly, see Rowan v. Post Office Dept., 397 U. S. 728, 736– 738; Frisby, supra, at 484–485—should not be expanded to the circumstances here. Westboro stayed well away from the memorial service, Snyder could see no more than the tops of the picketers’ signs, and there is no indication that the picketing interfered with the funeral service itself. Pp. 13–14.

…

(d) Westboro addressed matters of public import on public property, in a peaceful manner, in full compliance with the guidance of local officials. It did not disrupt Mathew Snyder’s funeral, and its choice to picket at that time and place did not alter the nature of its speech. Because this Nation has chosen to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that public debate is not stifled, Westboro must be shielded from tort liability for its picketing in this case. Pp. 14–15.

Basically, the court found that all laws in place at the time were followed, the speech was related to a public matter, and the services were not directly interfered with by the protests.

448 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:40:33am

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

OK again I get that, but what about the basic right (in the sense of common decency that everyone understands) to not have your private family affairs turned into public spectacles by drooling outsiders?

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if the fault doesn’t lie more with the media. It sounds as if the Westboro loonies were quite a way away from the church - if the media had ignored them, the funeral-goers might not even have noticed they were there.

Something of a chicken and egg problem, though, because it’s probably due to media coverage that the loonies are increasingly being kept away from mourners.

449 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:42:15am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

I’ll be honest here. I detest Phelps with a passion, as he’s a bigot, spiteful, heartless, and an affront to real Christians. That being said, I’m glad he won this case, as heart-wrenching as it is to feel that way. A key part of having the right to free speech is allowing people to say things that are very unpopular and viewed as disgusting.

I agree, to a point, but Alito makes some pretty good points in his dissent. (“Neither classic “fighting words” or defamatory statements are immunized when they occur in a public place, and there is no good reason to treat a verbal assault based on the conduct or character of a private figure like Matthew Snyder any differently”)

This seems to be a fairly narrow ruling. Basically it says the Phelps clan cannot be sued for their speech but it does allow for restrictions to be placed for where that speech can be held.

450 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:42:49am

re: #437 harlequinade

I absolutely agree. That’s my stance with it. But as I read that all I could think was “Is that by Boris Johnson is such a buffoon? Because he’s not on my side of the issues.” But I’m thinking it’s probably because he’s just a buffoon :)

See, what I love about the right wing is that they are in love with the whole “objective truth” thing. So even though I personally think that truth, justice etc. are all subjective notions, I have no problem with objectively designating people like BJ* as buffoons or worse.

* BJ? BoJo? Boris the Spider?

451 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:43:34am

Pathetic title and story at the BBC:

What motives led to Shahbaz Bhatti’s murder in Pakistan?
By Aamer Ahmed Khan BBC Urdu Service, London

It is hard to find an immediate motive behind the murder of Pakistan’s Minorities Affairs Minister Shahbaz Bhatti.

The courageous battle he had vowed to fight against the country’s draconian blasphemy laws had already been abandoned by the government in the wake of Punjab governor Salman Taseer’s murder.

In fact, the final surrender had come from no less a person than Pakistan’s prime minister who had only last month pleaded with a large gathering of religious personalities to believe him when he said that his government had no intention of reviewing the blasphemy laws.

And unlike the slain governor - a veteran politician, a high profile socialite and one of the president’s many billionaire friends - Mr Bhatti neither had the status nor the political clout to influence the state’s agenda.

Some evidence of that also comes from the eerie silence on social media, from the extremists’ side.

Continues.

452 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:44:37am

re: #449 RogueOne

I agree, to a point, but Alito makes some pretty good points in his dissent. (“Neither classic “fighting words” or defamatory statements are immunized when they occur in a public place, and there is no good reason to treat a verbal assault based on the conduct or character of a private figure like Matthew Snyder any differently”)

This seems to be a fairly narrow ruling. Basically it says the Phelps clan cannot be sued for their speech but it does allow for restrictions to be placed for where that speech can be held.

This is why I like the counter-protests which completely surround the Phelps nuts and block them from view.

453 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:45:02am

re: #445 harlequinade

Wikileaks is the 21st Century version of that availability. Regardless of what you think of Assange, what it does is, and I apologize to the web savvy for this, web2.0 the idea of the leak.

I repeat, Wikileaks is the 21st century version without the responsibility. That leaks will happen is a given and always has been, but if you think that no conversation has a right to privacy and that there can be a social benefit to privacy, I don’t respect what you think.

454 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:45:04am

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

The court noted that the family was separated from the Westboro freaks by a good distance - 1,000 feet and that they could barely see the tops of the signs from where Synder was being interred. I get that the Westboro speech and conduct inflicted emotional distress on the family, but the free speech concerns outweigh the family’s right to restrict that free speech, especially when the Westboro group conformed to the local rules on holding the protests.

If the group hadn’t conformed to the rules on holding protests, the Court would have likely ruled against them. Alito, who dissented, argued that Synders weren’t public figures and that Westboro deprived him of an elementary right to bury his son in peace (curious that he used that language when there isn’t any such language anywhere in the Constitution), by intentionally inflicting severe emotional distress (IIED) on the family. Alito focused on the IIED claim, rather than the free speech requirements.

455 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:45:38am

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

OK again I get that, but what about the basic right (in the sense of common decency that everyone understands) to not have your private family affairs turned into public spectacles by drooling outsiders?

I’m glad that the SC is not making decisions as to what is “common decency.”

456 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:46:10am

Pakistan minister Shahbaz Bhatti shot dead in Islamabad
Shahbaz Bhatti – a Christian critic of Pakistan’s blasphemy laws – killed by assassins who left leaflets signed ‘Taliban al-Qaida’

Self-described Taliban gunmen have shot dead Pakistan’s minorities minister, Shahbaz Bhatti, an advocate of reform of the country’s blasphemy laws, as he left his Islamabad home.

Two assassins sprayed the Christian minister’s car with gunfire, striking him at least eight times, before scattering pamphlets that described him as a “Christian infidel”. The leaflets were signed “Taliban al-Qaida Punjab”.

Bhatti’s 22-year-old niece Mariam was first on the scene. “I rushed out to find his body covered with blood. I said “uncle, uncle” and tried to take his pulse. But he was already dead,” she said at Bhatti’s house, extending a bloodstained palm. The sound of wailing women rose from the next room.

Continues.

457 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:48:05am

Right, “hard to find a motive” according to that BBC story. The Guardian has bigger balls than the BBC in this matter.

458 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:48:24am

re: #454 lawhawk

Quick question: do you think that law enforcement agencies have a legal obligation to make reasonable attempts to prevent such “IIED” attempts?

In other words, in the aftermath of this decision, would it be legal (and in fact a legal obligation) for local agencies to make sure that idiots like these cannot be seen/heard by mourners at the time of the funeral?

459 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:49:09am

re: #455 Walter L. Newton

I’m glad that the SC is not making decisions as to what is “common decency.”

You have a point. IMO, it boils down to how we define “fighting words”. In my mind picketing the funeral of a private citizen automatically crosses that line.

460 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:49:29am

re: #450 iossarian

BoJo, yes :) [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

461 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:49:37am

re: #451 Gus 802

Pathetic title and story at the BBC:

What motives led to Shahbaz Bhatti’s murder in Pakistan?
By Aamer Ahmed Khan BBC Urdu Service, London

The question should not be so inane, it should be “What is the name of the religion in Pakistan that thinks like this and brings tens of thousands of demonstrators into the streets in its support?”

462 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:49:39am

re: #458 iossarian

Quick question: do you think that law enforcement agencies have a legal obligation to make reasonable attempts to prevent such “IIED” attempts?

In other words, in the aftermath of this decision, would it be legal (and in fact a legal obligation) for local agencies to make sure that idiots like these cannot be seen/heard by mourners at the time of the funeral?

These idiots have a right to free speech but they have no right that their speech must be listened to.

463 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:51:49am

re: #458 iossarian

Quick question: do you think that law enforcement agencies have a legal obligation to make reasonable attempts to prevent such “IIED” attempts?

In other words, in the aftermath of this decision, would it be legal (and in fact a legal obligation) for local agencies to make sure that idiots like these cannot be seen/heard by mourners at the time of the funeral?

That would all come down to local and state laws. If the protesters are following the laws that are on the books, then the police would have a legal obligation to not try to prevent what the WBC was doing.

464 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:52:40am

re: #458 iossarian

Time/place/manner restrictions are enforceable if reasonable - so if the protesters are 1,000 feet away (as in this case), and are using signs and aren’t blocking traffic or otherwise conforming to local law, they could protest.

Is it unreasonable to move them 1,500 feet away? 2,000 feet away? That may be a borderline case and would be dependent on the facts and circumstances of an individual case.

500 feet might be sufficient if that means that someone is the next block over in NYC, but insufficient in a rural area. 1,500 feet might be reasonable in a rural location, but unreasonable in NYC where density and locations are condensed and a protest against an event/business/entity may claim that their protest rights are violated by being separated by such a distance.

465 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:52:41am

re: #462 Alouette

These idiots have a right to free speech but they have no right that their speech must be listened to.

I don’t understand this hand wringing over free speech when in the context of location. There is nothing free in speech that is forced upon someone who doesn’t want it.

466 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:53:23am

re: #462 Alouette

These idiots have a right to free speech but they have no right that their speech must be listened to.

re: #463 Simply Sarah

What I meant was: if a local authority (who establishes the rules for where/when protests can be held) knows that a crime is likely to be committed and does not take appropriate steps to prevent that crime, can they be held liable by the victim of that crime?

And would the infliction of emotional distress qualify as such a crime in these circumstances?

Same way that Rogue’s clients can be held liable for not installing a handrail around their runoff pool.

467 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:53:24am

re: #461 Naso Tang

The question should not be so inane, it should be “What is the name of the religion in Pakistan that thinks like this and brings tens of thousands of demonstrators into the streets in its support?”

Neither article mentions it. I searched for both forms of the word.

468 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:54:52am

Sharon Angle is now promoting some creationist movie…
Sharron Angle: Harry Reid ‘Public Enemy Number One’

Angle made the trip to New Hampshire for the premiere of The Genesis Code, a film that reportedly advocates for teaching creationism in public schools and enacting severe restrictions on abortion.

“Why can’t we present both theories to our children and let them choose?” said Angle, according to the Monitor. She reportedly noted that when she was a teacher, she instructed children on creationism as well as evolution.

469 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 7:56:18am

re: #465 Naso Tang

I don’t understand this hand wringing over free speech when in the context of location. There is nothing free in speech that is forced upon someone who doesn’t want it.

My understanding, now that I have read the decision, is that the WBC is not targeting the mourners themselves, but are using the occasion in order to get attention for themselves.

They are attention whores, plain and simple. If the media would ignore them, they would not get what they want.

470 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:01:15am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

“Why can’t we present both theories to our children and let them choose?” said Angle,

This summarizes the new right philosophy in more ways than one. Knowledge be damned.

Believe that which pleases you most.

471 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:01:20am

re: #453 Naso Tang

I would say that was an Assange position, rather than a Wikileaks position.
And I think that, with a general distrust of media - an anonymous, web based solution was an obvious choice.

In my opinion.

472 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:01:44am

Frankfurt airport shooting: Two dead and two injured

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

“Two people have died after a gunman opened fire on a bus full of American soldiers at Frankfurt airport, police say.

The driver of the bus and a US soldier were reportedly killed, while two others were seriously injured.

A 21-year-old suspect from Kosovo is said to have been arrested after the shooting in front of Terminal 2 at Europe’s second-biggest airport.

Police have told German media it is not clear if it was a terrorist attack.”

Seriously?!?! Not sure?!

473 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:03:54am

re: #466 iossarian

re: #463 Simply Sarah

What I meant was: if a local authority (who establishes the rules for where/when protests can be held) knows that a crime is likely to be committed and does not take appropriate steps to prevent that crime, can they be held liable by the victim of that crime?

And would the infliction of emotional distress qualify as such a crime in these circumstances?

Same way that Rogue’s clients can be held liable for not installing a handrail around their runoff pool.

Well, something like IIED would likely be a tort, not a crime. As for whether or not the police could be held liable for not enforcing laws on protests, I’d say the answer is, uh, maybe? It’s really hard to give a general response to that, since it would be highly dependent on the exact situation, who knew what and when, the actions of the protesters, the actions of the targets of the IIED, the actions (in any) of the police, etc.

It would also depend in part on what the state and local laws said, since they could be written such that police were specifically exempt from liability in such a situation, they could be written so the police were explicitly liable, or it might be vague or silent on the matter. Depending on the answers to all these questions, the final answer will be different.

Yes, I know that’s not exactly the kind of answer you were looking for, but, uh, I have to go with what I have.

474 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:06:19am

re: #471 harlequinade

I would say that was an Assange position, rather than a Wikileaks position.
And I think that, with a general distrust of media - an anonymous, web based solution was an obvious choice.

In my opinion.

I thought that Assange was Wikileaks, and from what little I have read he seems like a royal ass.

As I’ve said, anonymous has always existed, even with pen and paper. Wikileaks is different only to the extent that it invites dishonesty and theft as a principle of anarchy, and deserves no respect for that.

475 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:16:35am

re: #408 Naso Tang

Republicans don’t give a shit or are really really stupid

In the words of Ebenezar McCoy, “Stupid every time, Hoss. There’s only so many black hearted villains in the world and they only get uppity on occasion. But stupid is everywhere, every day.”

476 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:17:05am

re: #472 Ericus58

That report can’t be correct. Kosovo is inhabited by freedom fighters, not religious fundamentalists.

477 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:21:50am

Day 14.

Crisis in America: as America struggles with the life of Charlie Sheen.

Stay tuned for more updates.

//

478 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:24:56am

re: #477 Gus 802

I have a new page I’d love your opinions on.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

479 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:25:20am

A crazed druggie/boozer gets more attention than what’s going on in the rest of the world.

480 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:25:58am

re: #479 Gus 802

That’s entertainment.

481 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:27:03am

re: #477 Gus 802

Day 14.

Crisis in America: as America struggles with the life of Charlie Sheen.

Stay tuned for more updates.

//

My only concern with the X/2 man meltdown is that the lineup adjustments could adversely affect viewership of Fringe.

482 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:27:13am

re: #478 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a new page I’d love your opinions on.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

I’ll have to look at that later. Still waking up here and my brain isn’t fully engaged yet.

483 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:29:35am

re: #480 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s entertainment.

The pale blue dot. If an alien spacecraft ever buzzed the globe they’d probably keep going after determining, “nope, no intelligent life down there”.

484 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:29:42am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

Sharon Angle is now promoting some creationist movie…
Sharron Angle: Harry Reid ‘Public Enemy Number One’

Because creationism isn’t a scientific theory!

I was going to add a nasty name to the end of that sentence, but I’m trying to be good these days.

485 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:32:36am

It’s going to reach 63F degrees here today. Which means, typically, my surroundings will turn into the Primate Panorama like at the local zoo.

486 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:32:43am

Damn, I wish Fox News allowed video embedding, this would make an awesome page….
Seattle Stops Enforcing Laws Against Minorities?
Yes, Fox News is claiming that only white people in Seattle will be arrested an charged with crimes.

487 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:34:02am

I saw this yesterday on Twitter. WI people saying, WE HAVE NO PALM TREES IDIOT! On the O’Reilly show they broadcast a clip of “union thugs” from Wisconsin. Only there are palm trees in the background. Actual footage from Sacramento.

Today’s word: Fox News is an alternate reality

488 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:37:12am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

Damn, I wish Fox News allowed video embedding, this would make an awesome page…
Seattle Stops Enforcing Laws Against Minorities?
Yes, Fox News is claiming that only white people in Seattle will be arrested an charged with crimes.

They have an embed link but it’s a Javascript.

489 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:37:21am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

Damn, I wish Fox News allowed video embedding, this would make an awesome page…
Seattle Stops Enforcing Laws Against Minorities?
Yes, Fox News is claiming that only white people in Seattle will be arrested an charged with crimes.

The stole that story from somewhere. I would guess their research was posted at VDARE or CC of C last week.

490 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:38:35am

re: #487 Stanley Sea

I saw this yesterday on Twitter. WI people saying, WE HAVE NO PALM TREES IDIOT! On the O’Reilly show they broadcast a clip of “union thugs” from Wisconsin. Only there are palm trees in the background. Actual footage from Sacramento.

Today’s word: Fox News is an alternate reality

LOL… you need to make a page of that somehow.

491 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:38:40am

re: #487 Stanley Sea

I saw this yesterday on Twitter. WI people saying, WE HAVE NO PALM TREES IDIOT! On the O’Reilly show they broadcast a clip of “union thugs” from Wisconsin. Only there are palm trees in the background. Actual footage from Sacramento.

Today’s word: Fox News is an alternate reality

As if it would make any difference to their brilliant viewers 9_9

492 brennant  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:38:54am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

You have to be fucking kidding me.

493 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:40:29am

re: #489 Killgore Trout

The stole that story from somewhere. I would guess their research was posted at VDARE or CC of C last week.

Here you go. Same video.

494 harlequinade  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:40:56am

For the Game Minded among us: Nintendo is giving their keynote speech at the Game Developers’ Conference (many developers. A Conference for them… yeah, right apostrophe placing)

It’s being streamed here: [Link: gdc2011.nintendo.com…] In about 20 minutes, I believe.

495 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:41:02am

re: #493 Gus 802

Here you go. Same video.

Your web fu continues to be awesome.

496 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:41:55am

re: #495 LudwigVanQuixote

Your web fu continues to be awesome.

Took but a second. I think it’s more like “web glue”. ;)

497 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:43:27am

re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL… you need to make a page of that somehow.

I can’t from this lo-cal. Feel free!

498 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:45:15am

At least I think it’s the same video.

No word from KT yet. ;)

Anywho, here’s a comment from that link at Youtube:

White people, we MUST unite, or we will be exterminated.
ourwallaceclan 16 hours ago

499 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:46:33am

They say we’re looking for intelligent life on other planets.

I’m still looking for intelligent life on THIS planet.

//

501 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:48:44am

re: #497 Stanley Sea

Bill O can’t explain palm trees in Wisconsin.

This should be your page. Your find. Or Gus’s page for his background of finding the original video.

re: #496 Gus 802

Took but a second. I think it’s more like “web glue”. ;)

Ahh shut up and take your compliments like a man!

502 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:49:54am

re: #489 Killgore Trout

I’ve been searching for any news within the Seattle press about the issues involved, and found that the City Attorney is moving to stop prosecuting possession-level drug offenses, including marijuana possession charges.

There have been calls to investigate the Seattle PD over multiple violations, but nothing about the kinds of changes claimed in the Fox bit.

503 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:50:08am

re: #493 Gus 802

Here you go. Same video.

Nice! Would you like to make a page about it? I’m kinda busy this morning. I’ll give you an upding and a tweet.

504 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:50:29am

re: #500 Killgore Trout

More from Fox: Seattle Accused of Training ‘Good Little Socialist’ Cops in Response to Racial Unrest

Here’s the ones on Youtube…

Here, here, and here.

505 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:51:15am

re: #503 Killgore Trout

Nice! Would you like to make a page about it? I’m kinda busy this morning. I’ll give you an upding and a tweet.

I’m still a little cloudy here. I’m also about ready to walk to the local store and might hit Safeway soon after.

506 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:52:15am

re: #502 lawhawk

I’ve been searching for any news within the Seattle press about the issues involved, and found that the City Attorney is moving to stop prosecuting possession-level drug offenses, including marijuana possession charges.

There have been calls to investigate the Seattle PD over multiple violations, but nothing about the kinds of changes claimed in the Fox bit.

Stormfront is exited about the story but it’s all fox news links. I can almost guarantee they stole that story and research from some racist website they aren’t crediting.

507 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:53:03am

re: #506 Killgore Trout

Stormfront is exited about the story but it’s all fox news links. I can almost guarantee they stole that story and research from some racist website they aren’t crediting.

See. That’s why you should make the LGF Page. ;)

508 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:53:15am

re: #505 Gus 802

I’m still a little cloudy here. I’m also about ready to walk to the local store and might hit Safeway soon after.

Ok, I’ll just throw up a quick page with the video.

509 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:53:27am

re: #487 Stanley Sea

I saw this yesterday on Twitter. WI people saying, WE HAVE NO PALM TREES IDIOT! On the O’Reilly show they broadcast a clip of “union thugs” from Wisconsin. Only there are palm trees in the background. Actual footage from Sacramento.

Today’s word: Fox News is an alternate reality

While watching the video clip they put up you’ll notice the reporter o’reilly is talking to changes the subject to surrounding states..”I talked to someone in California…”. The video clip foxnews is showing in the background switches from “Madison WI” to “Union Protests” apparently, since there are palm trees, in CA.

510 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:53:44am

re: #508 Killgore Trout

Ok, I’ll just throw up a quick page with the video.

Include some of the wording from your 506.

511 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:54:47am

re: #502 lawhawk

I’ve been searching for any news within the Seattle press about the issues involved, and found that the City Attorney is moving to stop prosecuting possession-level drug offenses, including marijuana possession charges.

There have been calls to investigate the Seattle PD over multiple violations, but nothing about the kinds of changes claimed in the Fox bit.

Here’s where it comes from:

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com…]


A Seattle police officer, writing in his union newspaper, disparages the anti-bias training the city employees are required to take, and calls city leaders a “quaint socialist cabal.”

Under the headline, “Just Shut Up and Be a Good Little Socialist,” Officer Steve Pomper calls the city’s 5-year-old Race and Social Justice Initiative an attack on American values and calls its supporters “the enemy.”

He expresses contempt for a “Perspectives in Profiling” class that department members were required to take last year to raise awareness about racial profiling, and he questions at what point he and other officers should say “Hell no!” to the city’s attempts to “indoctrinate SPD in social justice culture.”

512 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:56:30am

re: #508 Killgore Trout

Ok, I’ll just throw up a quick page with the video.

I’m glad you are putting this up.

513 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:57:03am

re: #506 Killgore Trout

Found something in the Post Intelligencer….

The Seattle police officer who drew attention after an article he wrote criticized police social justice training defended his position Monday, and clarified who he views as “the enemy.”

Officer Steve Pomper was a guest on KOMO’s Newsline A.M. with John Carlson, as was Julie Nelson, director of the Seattle Office of Civil Rights.

Hundreds of Seattle police officers have attended Perspectives in Profiling, a training class to support the city of Seattle’s Race and Social Justice Initiative. The initiative was launched by Mayor Greg Nickels in 2006 and has continued support from Mayor Mike McGinn and the City Council.

Pomper, writing in December for The Guardian, stated that through the initiative, the city “continues its assault on traditional and constitutional American values such as self-reliance, equal justice, and individual liberty. But more to our immediate concern, the city is inflicting its socialist policies directly on the Seattle Police Department.”

The Guardian is a union newspaper published primarily for current and former Seattle police officers. It’s not distributed to the general public.

Pomper told Carlson what got him fired up was the department’s policy on stopping people driving with a suspended license in the third degree. Officers are instructed not to issue a ticket to the individual, but send the information to the city attorney’s office so they determine who merits punishment.

So, the issue is with a policy started in 2006, has the support of the mayor, city council, and which the City Attorney is throwing his support behind reducing issuing tickets and prosecutions on certain minor offenses because they claim that they disproportionately affect minorities.

514 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:59:16am

re: #509 RogueOne

While watching the video clip they put up you’ll notice the reporter o’reilly is talking to changes the subject to surrounding states..”I talked to someone in California…”. The video clip foxnews is showing in the background switches from “Madison WI” to “Union Protests” apparently, since there are palm trees, in CA.

Ah, OK.

515 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:04:13am

Chain e-mail on Gabrielle Giffords doesn’t hold up
[Link: politifact.com…]


Among other things, the e-mail charges that Giffords, in an exchange with Gen. David Petraeus, suggested that the Army “put more emphasis on less environmentally damaging methods, like stabbing or clubbing enemy forces in order to minimize the carbon output.”

516 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:09:19am

re: #513 lawhawk

Found something in the Post Intelligencer…

So, the issue is with a policy started in 2006, has the support of the mayor, city council, and which the City Attorney is throwing his support behind reducing issuing tickets and prosecutions on certain minor offenses because they claim that they disproportionately affect minorities.

The policy seems mainly focused of Driving with a Suspended License offenses.

517 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:12:31am

re: #516 Killgore Trout

The policy seems mainly focused of Driving with a Suspended License offenses.

The nice officer is just upset he’s not allowed to pull people over for DWB anymore. Luckily for him, he has the support of his public employee union so he doesn’t have to give a crap what any of us think.

518 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:15:22am

re: #422 Obdicut

The awesome thing about that poll?

It says the majority of republicans think that a shutdown would be a good thing.

It also says that a majority of Republicans think that it would be Obama’s responsibility, that there was a shutdown.

So they want to blame him for something they’d see as a good thing.

Looney tunes.

Excuse me a second while I put on my brain comboobulator**.

The stop is a good thing in that a stop will put a stop to all the bad things Obama is doing and if Obama stopped doing all the bad things there would be no need for a stop so it’s all his fault.

**(I just hope it doesn’t get stuck on my head)

519 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:17:15am

Ay, chihuahua. A customer came in for a little adjustment to his bike, and we were having a nice conversation about this and that, and all of a sudden he goes full on 9-11 Truther on me. Fortunately, the phone rang. He even said it was fortunate for me, because he gets “all wrapped up in this”. I think I agreed to look into what happened to Building 7, in an effort to not lose a customer.

He seemed so reasonable right up to the moment 9-11 got mentioned.

520 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:17:52am

re: #426 Decatur Deb

Someone on Politico thinks she’s too smart:

Bachmann a viable W.H. candidate?

She “will appeal to those who like Sarah Palin but wish she would be a little less intellectual.”

[Link: www.politico.com…]

In this case ‘intellectual’ doesn’t mean ‘smart’ as much as it means ‘sitting in the elitist ivory tower’ (or at least knocking on the tower doors).

521 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:19:47am

re: #519 wrenchwench

Ay, chihuahua. A customer came in for a little adjustment to his bike, and we were having a nice conversation about this and that, and all of a sudden he goes full on 9-11 Truther on me. Fortunately, the phone rang. He even said it was fortunate for me, because he gets “all wrapped up in this”. I think I agreed to look into what happened to Building 7, in an effort to not lose a customer.

He seemed so reasonable right up to the moment 9-11 got mentioned.

“For the first time in history, fire has melted steel!” - Rosey O`Donnell

522 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:23:35am

re: #519 wrenchwench

Ay, chihuahua. A customer came in for a little adjustment to his bike, and we were having a nice conversation about this and that, and all of a sudden he goes full on 9-11 Truther on me. Fortunately, the phone rang. He even said it was fortunate for me, because he gets “all wrapped up in this”. I think I agreed to look into what happened to Building 7, in an effort to not lose a customer.

He seemed so reasonable right up to the moment 9-11 got mentioned.

Some customers aren’t worth having. I had one that complained when I sent a black employee to do the job. The next time he called I referred him somewhere else.

523 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:24:38am

re: #521 rwdflynavy

“For the first time in history, fire has melted steel!” - Rosey O`Donnell

Gríma Wormtongue: How? How can fire undo stone? What kind of device can break down a wall?

524 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:29:40am

re: #522 RogueOne

Some customers aren’t worth having. I had one that complained when I sent a black employee to do the job. The next time he called I referred him somewhere else.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put up with a racist. But if I don’t put up with the delusional, it will be slim pickins around here. And he spent almost $200.00 last week. And he works with a lot of other cyclists that I’m trying to lure away from the other shop. One of whom recommended me to this guy. Now I have to wonder if she’s a Truther too. They work at the hippy health food store. Maybe they’re all Truthers.

525 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:30:03am

Mo’s money is shut off world wide, and it’s a ton of money…
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

526 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:31:47am

re: #524 wrenchwench

Yeah, I wouldn’t put up with a racist. But if I don’t put up with the delusional, it will be slim pickins around here. And he spent almost $200.00 last week. And he works with a lot of other cyclists that I’m trying to lure away from the other shop. One of whom recommended me to this guy. Now I have to wonder if she’s a Truther too. They work at the hippy health food store. Maybe they’re all Truthers.

their money is good, who cares what’s inside their heads?…there are worse things than truthers

527 rwdflynavy  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:32:08am

re: #524 wrenchwench

Yeah, I wouldn’t put up with a racist. But if I don’t put up with the delusional, it will be slim pickins around here. And he spent almost $200.00 last week. And he works with a lot of other cyclists that I’m trying to lure away from the other shop. One of whom recommended me to this guy. Now I have to wonder if she’s a Truther too. They work at the hippy health food store. Maybe they’re all Truthers.

Just let them know to only use real Reynolds Wrap Aluminum foil. Governement mind control rays can punch right through the bargain brand tin foil.//

528 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:32:55am

re: #525 albusteve

Mo’s money is shut off world wide, and it’s a ton of money…
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

How is he going to pay his mercenaries now?

I hope not by supplying them with the drugs he’s apparently had far too much of.

529 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:33:30am

re: #526 albusteve

their money is good, who cares what’s inside their heads?…there are worse things than truthers

Like deadbeats who refuse to pay bills.

530 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:35:44am

No wonder Sheen has been acting so weird. He has a 3rd nipple!

Image: article-1362226-0D6ED5B9000005DC-160_306x423.jpg

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

531 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:39:43am

re: #3 Charles

And by the way, we’re approaching another LGF milestone: at our current commenting rate, we’re going to see the nine millionth comment posted in about three weeks.

I hope it’s me ..I hope it’s me!!!
I’ve had my eye on that 6 foot tall Pink Panther Doll for months!!

532 Gus  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:40:04am

BIAW

533 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:40:18am

Morning all. File this in the “petty legislative revenge” file

Wisconsin legislature pushing for prank call ban

A week after Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker received a prank call from blogger Ian Murphy, who posed as conservative billionaire David Koch, two Wisconsin legislators introduced a bill Monday that would ban prank calls, reports the Badger Herald.

Republican state Sen. Mary Lazich and Republican state Rep. Mark Honadel said their measure would forbid deceiving the call’s recipient into believing the caller is someone he or she is not.

“While use of spoofing is said to have some legitimate uses, it can also be used to frighten, harass and potentially defraud,” Lazich and Honadel told the Badger Herald.
….
The bill’s authors deny any correlation between the proposed law and last week’s false call made to Walker.

Nope. No connection at all.

534 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:40:24am

More info on the presidents decision not to defend DOMA:

[Link: www.npr.org…]


Precedent

While the administration’s DOMA shift is unusual, it is not rare. It has happened more than a dozen times since 2004 and many more in the past 60 years, including in some very important cases.

During the Eisenhower, Kennedy and Truman administrations, the presidents, in one form or another, refused to defend separate-but-equal facilities in schools and hospitals. The Ford Justice Department refused to defend the post-Watergate campaign finance law, much of which was subsequently upheld by the Supreme Court. The Reagan administration refused to defend the independent counsel law, a law subsequently upheld by the Supreme Court by a 7-to-1 vote. It also refused to defend the one-house legislative veto of many executive actions; in that case, the administration was more successful, winning 7-2 in the Supreme Court. The Clinton administration refused to defend a federal law mandating the dismissal of military personnel who were HIV-positive. The George W. Bush administration refused to defend a federal law that denied mass-transit funds to any transportation system that displayed ads advocating the legalization of marijuana. And in the George H.W. Bush administration, the Justice Department refused to defend a federal law providing affirmative action in the awarding of broadcasting licenses — a law subsequently upheld by the Supreme Court by a narrow 5-4 vote.

535 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:40:47am

re: #530 RogueOne

He’s Scaramanga!

536 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:46:11am

The hypocrisy displayed by democratic countries, large and small, toward Gadhafi’s Libya, now revealed in all its crudeness, is probably unequalled in the annals of modern history. It has made a laughing stock of the United Nations and the Security Council. By damaging the credibility of the United Nations and its institutions, it has seriously damaged the ability of the world’s powers to utilize the UN in the management of international affairs.

no shit…therefore I say that every single penny spent on behalf of the UN is no more than blackmail and bribery to support it’s own continuation….I hate the UN

UN’s attitude towards Israel is hypocrisy run wild
Among world leaders, rubbing shoulders with the worst of dictators while castigating democratic Israel has become the fashion.

[Link: www.haaretz.com…]

537 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:46:21am

Seventh Circuit Reaffirms High School Students’ Rights to Wear “Be Happy, Not Gay” T-Shirts
[Link: volokh.com…]


The opinion is Zamecnik v. Indian Prairie School Dist. #204 (decided today) (Posner, J.), and it reaffirms the panel’s decision in an earlier phase of the case.

On balance the opinion seems slightly more speech protective than the earlier one, because it doesn’t rely on Morse v. Frederick (as the earlier opinion did in some measure), and because it expressly notes that the precedents do not support “a generalized ‘hurt feelings’ defense to a high school’s violation of the First Amendment rights of its students.” And though the court acknowledges that Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District authorizes the restriction of speech when there’s a substantial likelihood of a substantial disruption, it concludes that on these facts the likelihood wasn’t demonstrated.

538 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:48:39am

re: #333 RadicalModerate

Some more info from the “Wisconsin Union Violence” footage that was shown on the Bill O’Reilly show last night - as has already been reported, the footage was from a rally in Sacremento, CA last week. However, what the video didn’t show was that the shoving was instigated by a tea-partier who had jumped into a street crossing the protestors were marching on to directly accost the protestors.

Demonstration turns into shoving match at state Capitol

An amateur videographer caught a shoving match on tape. The video showed a face to face argument right before Richard Andazola, 28, of Stockton, shoved a tea party activist.

“He bum rushed across the street, came right at us, swung his bullhorn at me, hit me in the hand and then put his hand around my throat and started choking me, Rodney Stanhope of Placerville said.

The video doesn’t show the choking incident, but clearly shows the shoving. Because of it, Sacramento Police officers cited Andazola for battery.

Andazola tells a different story though.

“He was spitting on me, he’s bigger than me, and I told him to get off of me,” Andazola said. “I was backing up and he was staying on me ‘til the point that he spit in my mouth.”

That incident was the only one that occured. The rest of the demonstration fizzled out with arguments yelled across 10th Street.

Video here: [Link: www.news10.net…]

The footage that is included on the link clearly shows that the Tea Partier’s account of the incident is, outside of his being shoved is pretty much an entire fabrication. What is shown is that the protestors were moving across the street, apparently at the direction of local law enforcement who are clearly seen in the video. The guy on the bullhorn (I’m guessing a Teamsters Union member, per the jacket he’s wearing) and the Tea Partier got a bit too close to each other, were doing some yelling, and the shoving incident occurred. No punches were thrown, just Andazola shoving Stanhope away from him.

539 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:52:23am

See you later people. Everyone enjoy the rest of their day.

540 dmon  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:53:40am

Update on democracy in Ohio

Today a vote was taken in the Ohio Senate Commerce committee, on SB 5 (The union busting bill)

The committee is composed of 12 members (8 R’s, 4 D’s)

All 4 D’s and 2 R’s were opposed to the bill, which would have resulted in a tie, which equals defeat.

Unfortunately Senate rule 20 allows the President of the Senate to replace any member of a committee at his pleasure.


You guessed it….. the Republican President of the Senate replaced one of the Republican “No” votes today with another Senator and the bill passed committee…..democracy at its finest

541 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:55:06am

re: #536 albusteve

By damaging the credibility of the United Nations and its institutions, it has seriously damaged the ability of the world’s powers to utilize the UN in the management of international affairs.

The UN has credibility? That’s news to me.

542 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:56:41am

re: #540 dmon

Update on democracy in Ohio

Today a vote was taken in the Ohio Senate Commerce committee, on SB 5 (The union busting bill)

The committee is composed of 12 members (8 R’s, 4 D’s)

All 4 D’s and 2 R’s were opposed to the bill, which would have resulted in a tie, which equals defeat.

Unfortunately Senate rule 20 allows the President of the Senate to replace any member of a committee at his pleasure.

You guessed it… the Republican President of the Senate replaced one of the Republican “No” votes today with another Senator and the bill passed committee…democracy at its finest

“I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Democracy simply doesn’t work.”
-Kent Brockman

543 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:57:08am

re: #541 njdhockeyfan
Are U.N. Troops issued Ammo??
I’ve never heard of them firing a shot….
They’ll need some if they are sent to the M.E.

544 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:57:16am

re: #538 RadicalModerate

These tea partiers are such children. First they whine that government is too big. Then they go and make asses out of themselves trying to wind up union protesters. Then, when the protesters tell them to fuck off, they go crying - GUESS WHERE - to the government.

Fucking 4-year olds.

MOMMEEEE!!! BILLY HIT MEE!!! HE HIT ME!!!!

545 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 9:58:56am

re: #538 RadicalModerate

Some more info from the “Wisconsin Union Violence” footage that was shown on the Bill O’Reilly show last night - as has already been reported, the footage was from a rally in Sacremento, CA last week. However, what the video didn’t show was that the shoving was instigated by a tea-partier who had jumped into a street crossing the protestors were marching on to directly accost the protestors.

Demonstration turns into shoving match at state Capitol

Video here: [Link: www.news10.net…]

The footage that is included on the link clearly shows that the Tea Partier’s account of the incident is, outside of his being shoved is pretty much an entire fabrication. What is shown is that the protestors were moving across the street, apparently at the direction of local law enforcement who are clearly seen in the video. The guy on the bullhorn (I’m guessing a Teamsters Union member, per the jacket he’s wearing) and the Tea Partier got a bit too close to each other, were doing some yelling, and the shoving incident occurred. No punches were thrown, just Andazola shoving Stanhope away from him.

it’s hard for me to give a shit what’s happening in WI…so they shove each other, big whoop….phony palm trees and petty lies, pundits are driving the story because it’s devicive, not because it’s some Earth moving event

546 simoom  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:01:10am

LATimes: Fox News pulls Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum off the air because of their interest in running for president

Fox News announced Wednesday that it is suspending the contracts of political contributors Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum because both have demonstrated that they are seriously considering running for president.

Dianne Brandi, the network’s executive vice president of legal and business affairs, said in an interview that the channel made the move because Gingrich aides told Fox News executives that the former House speaker is stepping up his exploration of a presidential bid.

While Gingrich is not expected to announce that he is forming a federal exploratory committee this week, he is expected to say in Georgia on Thursday that he is meeting with advisors to explore seeking the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, a Gingrich aide said.

Santorum, a former senator from Pennsylvania, has indicated that he plans to participate in Republican primary debates, Brandi said, “so that leads us to believe he is seriously considering running.”

Brandi said the network acted out of journalistic principle.

I’d imagine, at some point in the near future, non-FNC contributer candidates would have begun publicly complaining about the free media and softer, frequent interviews.

547 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:01:55am

re: #543 reloadingisnotahobby

Are U.N. Troops issued Ammo??
I’ve never heard of them firing a shot…
They’ll need some if they are sent to the M.E.

Fat chance on that. How is their attempt to keep weapons from being sent to Hezbollah working out?

548 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:03:39am

Meanwhile Mo is dropping bombs on his own people…

Deadly fighting as Gadhafi tries to seize back rebel-held town

Libyan a

ircraft bombed a section of eastern Libya on Wednesday as leader Moammar Gadhafi tried to take back control of an area seized by the opposition.

A CNN crew saw the aircraft drop two bombs in the area of al-Brega, a town in the east with key oil and natural gas facilities.

Later, a military aircraft dropped a third bomb. People on the ground shot and threw whatever they could at the aircraft, then fled.

It was not immediately clear whether there were casualties in the bombings.

549 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:04:43am

re: #527 rwdflynavy

Just let them know to only use real Reynolds Wrap Aluminum foil. Governement mind control rays can punch right through the bargain brand tin foil.//

A wet towel works much better. /

550 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:06:03am

Fiscal responsibility!

House Republicans voted in lockstep this afternoon to protect corporate welfare for Big Oil, even as they call for draconian cuts to programs that everyday Americans depend on each day.
…
Democrats offered a motion to recommit that would have stripped the five largest oil companies of taxpayer subsidies, saving tens of billions of dollars in taxpayer funds. The motion failed on a vote of 176-249, with all Republicans voting against (approximately a dozen Democrats joined the GOP). A similar vote two weeks ago to recoup $53 billion in taxpayer funds from Big Oil was also voted down, largely along party lines.

How much clearer could the GOP’s actual priorities be? 9_9

551 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:08:06am

re: #549 Romantic Heretic

A wet towel works much better. /

It’s always amusing to see the fools who create elaborate helmets, but fail to provide a proper means of grounding (earthing). In anything but the wettest environment, you need at least 4 feet of well-bonded drag chain.

552 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:09:05am

re: #549 Romantic Heretic

A wet towel works much better. /

Hold on a sec…
…
…
…
…
…
Did you just get the urge to eat cat food?

553 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:12:41am

re: #548 njdhockeyfan

Meanwhile Mo is dropping bombs on his own people…

Deadly fighting as Gadhafi tries to seize back rebel-held town

Libyan a

now read this…we are hosed in the long run and we did it to ourselves
[Link: www.politico.com…]

Key members of the Obama administration believe this friction abroad underscores the need to move away from oil and gas entirely and shift to boutique forms of alternative energy. Their lack of political will to drill for oil and gas compromises our national security and jeopardizes economic recovery.

554 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:12:58am

re: #552 Varek Raith

Hold on a sec…
…
…
…
…
…
Did you just get the urge to eat cat food?

I did.

Work on your aim.

555 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:14:03am

re: #543 reloadingisnotahobby

Are U.N. Troops issued Ammo??
I’ve never heard of them firing a shot…
They’ll need some if they are sent to the M.E.

Yeah, as a matter of fact they are.. As they were here. And here.

I know a lot of people hate the UN but it succeeded at the main thing it was meant to do: prevent WWIII. For that I’ll forgive a lot.

556 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:14:40am

re: #553 albusteve

Oil is fungible.

557 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:14:47am

re: #553 albusteve

now read this…we are hosed in the long run and we did it to ourselves
[Link: www.politico.com…]

Key members of the Obama administration believe this friction abroad underscores the need to move away from oil and gas entirely and shift to boutique forms of alternative energy. Their lack of political will to drill for oil and gas compromises our national security and jeopardizes economic recovery.

Washington Post isn’t impressed with with the President right now either:

Obama’s ‘Where’s Waldo?’ presidency

558 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:15:50am

re: #552 Varek Raith

Hold on a sec…
…
…
…
…
…
Did you just get the urge to eat cat food?

No. Unless sushi counts as cat food.

559 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:16:35am

re: #556 Obdicut

Oil is fungible.

And if it wasn’t, most of that oil drilled in the US would likely be sold overseas anyway.

560 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:16:44am

re: #551 Decatur Deb

It’s always amusing to see the fools who create elaborate helmets, but fail to provide a proper means of grounding (earthing). In anything but the wettest environment, you need at least 4 feet of well-bonded drag chain.

The effectiveness of a Faraday cage does not depend on grounding. However, if one wears a metal helmet (or tinfoil hat) as a countermeasure to lightning, I’d second your recommendation of a drag chain.

(A tinfoil hat is a very poor approximations of a Faraday cage, btw.)

561 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:17:25am

re: #556 Obdicut

Oil is fungible.

yes, and when supplies are ample and secure, the price is lower…good point

562 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:17:30am

re: #559 Varek Raith

And if it wasn’t, most of that oil drilled in the US would likely be sold overseas anyway.

Exactly. Are we proposing to nationalize oil companies? Going all Chavez?

563 kirkspencer  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:18:03am

re: #553 albusteve

now read this…we are hosed in the long run and we did it to ourselves
[Link: www.politico.com…]

Key members of the Obama administration believe this friction abroad underscores the need to move away from oil and gas entirely and shift to boutique forms of alternative energy. Their lack of political will to drill for oil and gas compromises our national security and jeopardizes economic recovery.

I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Steve Forbes would write an opinion piece saying such a thing. ///

(You did notice that, didn’t you?)

564 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:18:16am

re: #556 Obdicut

Oil is fungible.

You can make mushrooms from oil? Edible oil products, mmm.

565 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:19:12am

re: #563 kirkspencer

I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Steve Forbes would write an opinion piece saying such a thing. ///

(You did notice that, didn’t you?)

it’s the message I’m interested in…Forbes is just another guy speaking his piece

566 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:20:10am

re: #561 albusteve

yes, and when supplies are ample and secure, the price is lower…good point

There’s not enough oil in the US to put a dent into the price of oil. And besides, Jevons paradox is in effect.

Obama is exactly right. The only path to real energy independence is getting off of oil, and coal, and any other non-sustainable resource. In the relatively short term, nuclear is fine, though has its own problems in terms of making a consistent reactor design.

567 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:20:43am

Oil jumps above $102 per barrel

Oil prices rose above $102 per barrel Wednesday as fighting escalated in Libya and petroleum demand grew in the U.S.

Libya, a major oil exporter to Europe, has been embroiled in a civil war that has shut down oil production in many parts of the country. Forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi used airstrikes in a battle against protestors for control of a key oil installation in the eastern half of the country.

Analysts are concerned that the rebellion will endanger Libya’s oil fields, which produce 1.6 million barrels per day. That’s only about 2 percent of global demand, but experts say the disruption is putting pressure on world supplies at a time when demand is picking up.

568 blueraven  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:21:21am

re: #553 albusteve

now read this…we are hosed in the long run and we did it to ourselves
[Link: www.politico.com…]

Key members of the Obama administration believe this friction abroad underscores the need to move away from oil and gas entirely and shift to boutique forms of alternative energy. Their lack of political will to drill for oil and gas compromises our national security and jeopardizes economic recovery.

Oh wow, an opinion piece from Steve Forbes. No bias or spin there at all./

569 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:24:05am

re: #566 Obdicut

There’s not enough oil in the US to put a dent into the price of oil. And besides, Jevons paradox is in effect.

Obama is exactly right. The only path to real energy independence is getting off of oil, and coal, and any other non-sustainable resource. In the relatively short term, nuclear is fine, though has its own problems in terms of making a consistent reactor design.

LOL….good one, I like “the path’ part….what path are you talking about? there is no path…we need oil and gas to fuel any recovery right now…that’s a path

570 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:25:34am

Oh, jeez.

571 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:26:56am

re: #568 blueraven

Oh wow, an opinion piece from Steve Forbes. No bias or spin there at all./

yeah, he makes that dolt Ken Salazar look like a genius, eh?

572 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:27:35am

re: #569 albusteve

LOL…good one, I like “the path’ part…what path are you talking about? there is no path…we need oil and gas to fuel any recovery right now…that’s a path

Short term gain and to hell with any long term pain.

573 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:28:09am

re: #569 albusteve

what path are you talking about?

Upgrading the energy grid, investing in renewable technology like wind and solar while funding research into improving them, and other next-generation technologies as well. All stuff you’ve seen talked about on LGF before.

we need oil and gas to fuel any recovery right now…that’s a path

Again, the amount of oil and gas present in the US is not enough to really make a dent in the worldwide oil price. Furthermore, drilling projects beginning now wouldn’t start producing for at least five years, so in the short term, would provide no benefit whatsoever.

We have the chance to become the world leaders on renewable energy, which is going to be the absolutely most important product of the century. If we want to remain an economic superpower, it’s vital that we do so.

574 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:29:08am

re: #571 albusteve

yeah, he makes that dolt Ken Salazar look like a genius, eh?

Bias, not brains.

Read the lines before you read in between the lines.

576 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:31:21am

re: #573 Obdicut

Upgrading the energy grid, investing in renewable technology like wind and solar while funding research into improving them, and other next-generation technologies as well. All stuff you’ve seen talked about on LGF before.

Again, the amount of oil and gas present in the US is not enough to really make a dent in the worldwide oil price. Furthermore, drilling projects beginning now wouldn’t start producing for at least five years, so in the short term, would provide no benefit whatsoever.

We have the chance to become the world leaders on renewable energy, which is going to be the absolutely most important product of the century. If we want to remain an economic superpower, it’s vital that we do so.

what a bunch of claptrap…I don’t have the energy to respond but go ahead and explain how the continued moratorium on deep water permits is good for the country, since 1/3 of our oil comes from there…explain to the people of that region why it’s a good thing to shut down the oil economy in the Gulf

577 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:31:39am

re: #575 Varek Raith

Alaska’s untapped oil reserves estimate lowered 90 percent

It’s always a bit painful when you have too much gas.

578 blueraven  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:32:26am

re: #569 albusteve

LOL…good one, I like “the path’ part…what path are you talking about? there is no path…we need oil and gas to fuel any recovery right now…that’s a path

A couple months ago I had to attend a funeral ion S. TX. I tried to make a hotel reservation in this tiny town…on a weekday. There were none to be found. 2 years ago this town was dying of attrition…dried up. Now there are new hotels, restaurants, apartments. Much hustle and bustle. The oil business is booming, as it is in all the small towns in the area.

579 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:32:29am

re: #575 Varek Raith

Alaska’s untapped oil reserves estimate lowered 90 percent

“The new estimate is mainly due to the incorporation of new data from recent exploration drilling revealing gas occurrence rather than oil in much of the area, the geological survey said.”

Pity it doesn’t give the revised estimate numbers to reflect the new gas estimated amount.

Still a boatload of energy….

580 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:33:04am

The cost of energy.

Consider not only the acquisition costs for fuel and material construction, but land usage, and emissions and power generating life cycle.

Nuclear isn’t just an interim solution - it’s got to be part of the long term solution because none of the other alt-energy generation types can produce the level of power on a small footprint and at a competitive cost.

581 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:35:00am

re: #579 Ericus58

“The new estimate is mainly due to the incorporation of new data from recent exploration drilling revealing gas occurrence rather than oil in much of the area, the geological survey said.”

Pity it doesn’t give the revised estimate numbers to reflect the new gas estimated amount.

Still a boatload of energy…

Yes. Most of which will do absolutely nothing to lower the price of oil.

582 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:35:11am

re: #576 albusteve

what a bunch of claptrap…I don’t have the energy to respond but go ahead and explain how the continued moratorium on deep water permits is good for the country, since 1/3 of our oil comes from there

Can you back this up at all?

583 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:35:45am

re: #580 lawhawk

Nuclear can’t be a long-term solution, because it’s not sustainable. It can be a pretty-long-term solution, but not a true long-term solution.

584 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:35:56am

ALL I KNOW IS THAT GAS IS $3.50 A GALLON AND A BLACK MAN IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

585 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:37:04am

re: #583 Obdicut

Nuclear can’t be a long-term solution, because it’s not sustainable. It can be a pretty-long-term solution, but not a true long-term solution.

Wind Farms & Solar power aren’t the answers either. What do you think is the solution right now?

586 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:37:04am

re: #582 Obdicut

Can you back this up at all?

no more than you can back up your fantasy regarding renewable energy….if you need more links to get the point, it’s only to preserve your argument

587 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:37:31am

re: #583 Obdicut

Nuclear can’t be a long-term solution, because it’s not sustainable. It can be a pretty-long-term solution, but not a true long-term solution.

It can give development time.

588 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:38:06am

re: #585 njdhockeyfan

Wind Farms & Solar power aren’t the answers either.

Why not?

What do you think is the solution right now?

A combination of wind, solar, wave energy, a lot of heat-transfer stuff for residential heating, and nuclear.

589 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:38:36am

re: #583 Obdicut

By that measure, neither is solar or wind, which rely on rare earths - and which supply is severely constrained.

Add to that the land acquisition needs for solar or wind compared to nuclear, and you get more compact (and stable/reliable) power generating per mWhr from nuclear than any other source.

Nuclear is favorable over the other sources

590 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:38:48am

re: #584 iossarian

ALL I KNOW IS THAT GAS IS $3.50 A GALLON AND A BLACK MAN IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

The rising oil prices are bad for our economy and I think everyone would agree with that.

Who gives a fuck what color the President is? Why would you say that?

591 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:39:05am

re: #580 lawhawk

The cost of energy.

Consider not only the acquisition costs for fuel and material construction, but land usage, and emissions and power generating life cycle.

Nuclear isn’t just an interim solution - it’s got to be part of the long term solution because none of the other alt-energy generation types can produce the level of power on a small footprint and at a competitive cost.

And few alternative energy sources can be “throttled”, ie, adjusted according to demand.

592 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:39:41am

re: #586 albusteve

no more than you can back up your fantasy regarding renewable energy…if you need more links to get the point, it’s only to preserve your argument

What are you talking about, Steve? You just claimed we got 1/3 of our oil from deep wells in the Gulf. That is not, I believe, a true claim at all. If you can’t back it up, then I assume you just made it up.

That we need to stop using oil and coal is not a ‘fantasy’. It’s simply reality. AGW is real, and whether or not we run out of oil before the temperature rises to an immensely dangerous point is very moot.

593 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:39:43am

re: #585 njdhockeyfan

Wind Farms & Solar power aren’t the answers either.


re: #588 Obdicut

Why not?

Because liberals got to alternative energy first, and hence right-wingers must oppose it at all costs.

Or, to put it more succinctly:

AL GORE!!! POLITICAL FOOTBALL!!! AAAAARRRRGHHH!!!

594 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:39:53am

re: #588 Obdicut

Why not?

A combination of wind, solar, wave energy, a lot of heat-transfer stuff for residential heating, and nuclear.


not enough…how can a measly 7% of subsidized energy help us right now?….it’s a feel good, boutique non solution

595 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:39:56am

re: #590 njdhockeyfan

The rising oil prices are bad for our economy and I think everyone would agree with that.

Who gives a fuck what color the President is? Why would you say that?

And there is almost nothing we can do about it.

596 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:40:34am

re: #594 albusteve

not enough…how can a measly 7% of subsidized energy help us right now?…it’s a feel good, boutique non solution

What do you mean by ‘7% of subsidized energy’, Steve?

597 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:40:52am

re: #588 Obdicut


A combination of wind, solar, wave energy, a lot of heat-transfer stuff for residential heating, and nuclear.

We have a large problem with the oil prices right now. If it could be replaced with wind, solar, wave energy right away I’m all for it. Unfortunately it’s not ready to replace our energy usage we have for oil right now.

598 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:41:18am

re: #588 Obdicut

Why not?

A combination of wind, solar, wave energy, a lot of heat-transfer stuff for residential heating, and nuclear.

Smart grids and distributed power sources will increase efficiency enough so base load can be re-defined and the newer technologies will meet demands.

599 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:41:53am

re: #592 Obdicut

What are you talking about, Steve? You just claimed we got 1/3 of our oil from deep wells in the Gulf. That is not, I believe, a true claim at all. If you can’t back it up, then I assume you just made it up.

That we need to stop using oil and coal is not a ‘fantasy’. It’s simply reality. AGW is real, and whether or not we run out of oil before the temperature rises to an immensely dangerous point is very moot.

I didn’t say it was a fantasy…I said your short term solutions are fantasy, but you missed that

600 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:42:15am

re: #597 njdhockeyfan

We have a large problem with the oil prices right now.

And what would you like done about it, exactly? Nationalization of oil companies?

If it could be replaced with wind, solar, wave energy right away I’m all for it.

We can start replacing it right now. Why do you think we can’t?

Unfortunately it’s not ready to replace our energy usage we have for oil right now.

Which is why I listed research under our needs.


Do you still refuse to believe in AGW, by the way?

601 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:42:45am

re: #596 Obdicut

What do you mean by ‘7% of subsidized energy’, Steve?

ignore me, you dolt

602 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:42:47am

re: #598 b_sharp

Smart grids and distributed power sources will increase efficiency enough so base load can be re-defined and the newer technologies will meet demands.

Where is that new technology and if it’s already here why isn’t it in place already?

603 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:42:54am

re: #599 albusteve

I didn’t say it was a fantasy…I said your short term solutions are fantasy, but you missed that

You don’t think that switching to solar, wind, wave, and nuclear is a viable short term solution, Steve? What do you think is, then?

604 iossarian  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:43:03am

re: #590 njdhockeyfan

The rising oil prices are bad for our economy and I think everyone would agree with that.

Who gives a fuck what color the President is? Why would you say that?

Because there are people out there who have trouble understanding the fact that drilling for oil in the US is not going to change the price of gas, due to the fact that there is simply not that much oil in the US, and what oil there is is fairly costly to extract (compared to the oil that comes from the ME and Venezuela).

Some of these same people are angry at Obama for various reasons unrelated to the price of oil, and see this as yet another thing to blame him for, even though he has nothing to do with it.

Hence, my post.

605 kirkspencer  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:43:30am

re: #565 albusteve

it’s the message I’m interested in…Forbes is just another guy speaking his piece

OK, then let’s start the article. Opening paragraph goes:

You need to watch only a few minutes of cable news analysis to realize just how ludicrous our national energy policies have become. As escalating tensions and chaos unfold in Egypt, Libya and other Middle Eastern nations, one energy analyst suggested that if Libyan oil supplies were to fail, the United States would rely on Saudi Arabia for its oil needs. If that statement alone doesn’t put U.S. leaders on red alert, the looming national energy crisis may soon become reality.

So we’ve opened with an interesting threat that the US would have to rely on Saudi Arabia if Libya fails. Question: what percentage of our imported oil comes from Libya? (Answer, according to the EIA, is that in December it was approximately 1/2 of one percent.) How much comes from Saudi Arabia already? Same source, approximately 9.4%. [source]

We have an opening scare paragraph that doesn’t stand to the facts. When that happens from just about anyone, I change from shakers to dumptrucks for the salt application.

Second paragraph says that Obama, like Carter, is blocking offshore drilling. It implies that this blocking was what caused Carter’s energy policy to fail, and that it will do the same under Obama.

Third paragraph says unnamed members of Obama’s administration believe the unrest demonstrates why the US needs to get off oil (phrased as though this is a bad thing) and claims this threatens the economy.

Fourth paragraph is where he shoots his argument in the foot. It claims the elephant in the room is that 57% of our oil use comes from domestic production (true) and then implies that if we could only drill domestically we’d need NO foreign oil. That is, even by the most optimistic estimates, wrong.

Wait, I think I should quote that paragraph since it’s so critical. Here:

It skirts the colossal elephant in the room: Oil and natural gas produced here in the United States are likely to still account for at least 57 percent of domestic energy consumption by 2035. Not to mention that energy production here can relieve the U.S. from the dangerous grip of foreign petro dictators.

So in four paragraphs we’ve shown that the author is using scare tactics and falsehoods to make his case. You’re interested in the message? OK. The message is, “I’m willing to lie and scare you to convince you to support this policy.”

606 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:44:00am

re: #602 njdhockeyfan

Where is that new technology and if it’s already here why isn’t it in place already?

Because of the nature of the marketplace. The market doesn’t accurately take into account the damaging nature of using hydrocarbons as fuel, the damage it does to the environment. So, using those harmful fuels is ‘cheaper’ because those selling them, using them, etc. don’t have to pay for the cost of cleaning up the damage that they do.

The free market is a great thing, but it is terrible at factoring in externalities, like pollution.

607 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:45:09am

I gotta get back to work. Thanks for the short debate.

BTW…all you lefties are completely wrong again!
/

608 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:46:12am

re: #597 njdhockeyfan

From the Truman National Security Project - 33 generals signed this statement

Are they wrong?

609 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 10:53:51am

re: #602 njdhockeyfan

Where is that new technology and if it’s already here why isn’t it in place already?

The technology for smart grids and distributed power is already available. You’re using some of it right now.

The reason it isn’t in place yet is cost and motivation.

Wind power is used all over the world and has been successful even without smart grids in place.


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