Gingrich Executes Stunning Backflip

Everything Obama does is wrong
Politics • Views: 22,237

Think Progress’s George Zornick catches Newt Gingrich executing a stunning reverse double backflip maneuver: Gingrich Criticized Obama For Not Intervening In Libya, But Now Criticizes Him For Intervening In Libya.

Gingrich on March 7:

Exercise a no-fly zone this evening. … We don’t need to have the United Nations. All we have to say is that we think that slaughtering your own citizens is unacceptable and that we’re intervening.

Gingrich on the Today Show, March 23:

GINGRICH: The standard [Obama] has fallen back to of humanitarian intervention could apply to Sudan, to North Korea, to Zimbabwe, to Syria this week, to Yemen, to Bahrain. … The Arab League wanted us to do something. The minute we did something, the Arab League began criticizing us doing it. I think that two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is a lot. I think that the problems we have in Pakistan, Egypt — go around the region. We could get engaged by this standard in all sorts of places. I would not have intervened. I think there were a lot of other ways to affect Qaddafi. I think there are a lot of other allies in the region we could have worked with. I would not have used American and European forces.

This isn’t even a flip-flop, it’s a total reversal — proving again that the most important priority for Gingrich (and the GOP in general) is to oppose absolutely anything and everything the President does, even if they have to trip over their own clown shoes to do it.

This kind of screwed-up thinking is amazingly common on the right wing these days, so Gingrich probably won’t suffer any damage among his supporters. But it’s about as naked as political hypocrisy ever gets.

The funniest part of all this thrashing is that Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.

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270 comments
1 jaunte  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:14:38pm

Gingrich counting heavily on the support of the short-attention-span electorate.

2 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:15:21pm

Newt's a douche, expect nothing less.

3 Big Steve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:16:10pm

Obviously Newt doesn't have a "Contract with the Truth"

4 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:16:18pm

Not to mention the ones who can't find Iraq, Afghanistan nor Libya on a map; but opinions they have.

5 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:17:44pm

re: #4 Naso Tang

Not to mention the ones who can't find Iraq, Afghanistan nor Libya on a map; but opinions they have.

you do not need to be able to find these countries on a map to be eligible to vote, and that is what Newt is banking on...

6 elizajane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:18:00pm

Newt changes positions as fast as an acrobatic porn star. Still, it's entertaining to watch him doing it.

7 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:18:11pm

Newt Gingrich: Wait and see what Obama does, and propose the total opposite.

8 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:18:43pm

re: #6 elizajane

Newt changes positions as fast as an acrobatic porn star. Still, it's entertaining to watch him doing it.

I'll vote for the porn star over him EVERY TIME.

9 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:19:23pm

somehow I get the impression that the leadership in this country is not interested in responsible governing, serving the widest interests of the citizens, or improving the economy....it's all become a game of recognition, face time, bits and bytes to elevate one's popularity...the people are getting hosed by the left and the right, just two different teams playing the same game and voters are merely paying customers to finance the entire charade

10 Nevertires  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:19:31pm

re: #6 elizajane

The mental image that this generates has me reaching for the brain bleach.

11 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:20:01pm

Get back to me when he does the Triple Lindy because this is all too routine from him.

12 Big Steve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:21:01pm

re: #6 elizajane

Newt changes positions as fast as an acrobatic porn star. Still, it's entertaining to watch him doing it.

Did Charlie Sheen sneak in?

13 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:22:13pm

Newt was for intervention in Libya before he was against it.

Once again, The Onion was right about the GOP.

14 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:22:57pm

re: #12 Big Steve

Did Charlie Sheen sneak in?

Even Charlie Sheen is impressed by the GOP's incoherence on Libya. They're definitely not winning.

15 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:25:30pm

I think Newt is desperate to get the "Everything Obama does is wrong" vote.

16 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:26:34pm

Speaking of reversals, Egypt's back in the crapper:

Egypt govt passes law criminalizing protests

The Egyptian government on Wednesday passed a law criminalizing protests and strikes. Under the new law, anyone organizing or calling for a protest will be sentenced to jail and/or a fine of LE500,000.

The new law will be enforced as long as the current Emergency Law is in place, said the Council of Ministers in a statement on Wednesday. The Emergency Law has been in force since 1981 following the assassination of former President Anwar Sadat.

Same as the old boss.

17 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:26:43pm

Gingrich is going to have fun explaining those two quotes when they're posted side by side in a campaign commercial by one of his competitors for the GOP nomination.

He's Palinizing himself.

18 researchok  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:27:22pm

Gingrich is way past his 'best use before' date.

Way past.

19 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:27:41pm

re: #9 albusteve

somehow I get the impression that the leadership in this country is not interested in responsible governing, serving the widest interests of the citizens, or improving the economy...it's all become a game of recognition, face time, bits and bytes to elevate one's popularity...the people are getting hosed by the left and the right, just two different teams playing the same game and voters are merely paying customers to finance the entire charade

No. This is a specifically Republican equation Gingrich uses to formulated his "beliefs":

I = - Obama

20 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:28:36pm

re: #17 lostlakehiker

Gingrich is going to have fun explaining those two quotes when they're posted side by side in a campaign commercial by one of his competitors for the GOP nomination.

He's Palinizing himself.

Man hasn't had to explain himself yet, why start now?

21 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:28:49pm

re: #19 Charleston Chew

Wow, my conjugation is terrible.

22 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:29:00pm

re: #18 researchok

Gingrich is way past his 'best use before' date.

Way past.

Gingrich made himself useless and irrelevant back when his strategy to humiliate and hurt Clinton by shutting down the government got Clinton re-elected.

Why anyone takes the guy seriously anymore is beyond me.

23 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:30:41pm

re: #17 lostlakehiker

He first needs to explain why anyone should give him the time of day when he's been politically irrelevant and useless for over 15 years now.

24 researchok  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:31:02pm

re: #22 Lidane

Gingrich made himself useless and irrelevant back when his strategy to humiliate and hurt Clinton by shutting down the government got Clinton re-elected.

Why anyone takes the guy seriously anymore is beyond me.

I know- I just don't get it.

He's a liability ti just about faction of the GOP and yet everyday he is out there and no one says boo.

25 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:31:23pm

re: #21 Charleston Chew

Wow, my conjugation is terrible.

so are your reading skills...my post does not address Newt

26 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:31:41pm

re: #22 Lidane

Gingrich made himself useless and irrelevant back when his strategy to humiliate and hurt Clinton by shutting down the government got Clinton re-elected.

Why anyone takes the guy seriously anymore is beyond me.

The Right seems to believe that their best days were in the past, hence they're crowding around symbols of those by-gone days, with Newt being one of the most prominent ones due to his powerful leadership...right up til he became an albatross around the neck of his party and was subsequently deposed.

27 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:32:28pm

Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.

28 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:32:43pm

re: #26 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The Right seems to believe that their best days were in the past, hence they're crowding around symbols of those by-gone days, with Newt being one of the most prominent ones due to his powerful leadership...right up til he became an albatross around the neck of his party and was subsequently deposed.

I even admired him for accepting the consequences of failure and withdrawing from politics in the 90's. But he hath returnéd...

29 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:33:17pm

The man frankly exemplifies the word has been. He's been out of office for over ten years now and if he thinks people have forgotten his little shutting down the government hissy fit, he's sadly mistaken.

30 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:33:33pm

re: #25 albusteve

so are your reading skills...my post does not address Newt

Then what is it doing on this thread?

31 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:34:04pm

re: #27 Charles

Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.

why should he go to a divided, useless congress?...I have no problem with his little slap at those clowns

32 NervyNews  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:34:17pm

I'm not sure if the Daily Mail has been infiltrated by pro-Gaddafi forces: "Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart"

33 Darlington  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:34:32pm

It seems to me that the only thing Newt Gingrich is better at than bouncing to different political positions, is bouncing to different mistresses..

34 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:34:39pm

re: #30 Charleston Chew

Then what is it doing on this thread?

I post whatever I want, not for your benefit

35 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:35:09pm

re: #27 Charles

To be fair, he tied them in knots just by getting elected. He also pisses them off by not cheating on his wife and by being an attentive father. The rest is details. Heh.

36 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:36:17pm

re: #32 GNIDAthe#seCond

It's the Daily Fail. I wouldn't look for legitimate news there. You're better off with The Weekly World News. =P

37 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:36:54pm

re: #27 Charles

Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.

It's also funny that the wingnuts suddenly find themselves agreeing with Code Pink, Cindy Sheehan, Rev. Wright, Farrakhan and Michael Moore.

38 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:37:20pm

re: #35 Lidane

To be fair, he tied them in knots just by getting elected. He also pisses them off by not cheating on his wife and by being an attentive father. The rest is details. Heh.

I for one would love to see the "values voters" try to portray Newt the serial adulterer and disowner of his own sister as being a man of better values than Obama. And you know they will simply because "values" to the "value voters" just means being as socially reactionary as possible. You could be socially liberal and be really faithful to your wife and family and they still would back someone like Newt everytime.

39 MinisterO  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:37:38pm

re: #34 albusteve

I post whatever I want, not for your benefit

Nice. Whatever, I do what I want.

Youtube Video
40 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:38:54pm

Newt Gingrich: political gymnast and contortionist.

Does this mean he's ready for a circus act?

/

41 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:39:41pm

re: #27 Charles

Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.

The Right's first instinct is to attack Obama for anything he does, or doesn't do as was the case up until last week. Then he does what they've been demanding, and they either get whiplash and start screaming that he shouldn't have done that or throw their hands up and declare "Too late!"

42 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:40:00pm

re: #32 GNIDAthe#seCond

I'm not sure if the Daily Mail has been infiltrated by pro-Gaddafi forces: "Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart"

The brit tabloids have just learned that they can get a lot of traffic inventing crap for gullible American wingnuts. Anyone who can google will easily find the truth....
Germany commits air force to Afghanistan, defends Libya vote

The German government agreed Wednesday to commit its air force to the NATO mission in Afghanistan, a move it says will free up allied NATO troops to participate in military action against the Libyan regime of leader Moamer Gaddafi.

Up to 300 air force personnel are to serve on NATO airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft, which monitor Afghan airspace, Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet decided.

The decision, due to be authorized by parliament on Friday, is aimed at indirectly supporting the implementation of a no-fly zone over Libya, by freeing up allied forces in Afghanistan, officials said.

43 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:41:20pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

The AWACS-deployment is an expression of our solidarity with the alliance,' Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle told parliament.

OMG! Alliance Collapse!

44 avanti  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:42:02pm

The right is looking for any bad spin they can find on Libya. They talk about possible defections from the no fly zone, but fail to mention that having any help is better than going it alone. When other countries agree to help with logistics at least, they are silent. I honestly believe that some on the right want the mission to fail, not unlike some on the left felt about the Bush surge.
I don't care where you are in the political spectrum, hoping to score political points by cheering against your countries best interest is just lame.

45 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:42:29pm

I'm going to cast a write-in for Fozzie Bear's cat before I'd vote for Newt. And the GOP needs to find a cure for IRV sooner rather than later.

46 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:43:50pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Newt Gingrich: political gymnast and contortionist.

Does this mean he's ready for a circus act?

/

They can call it "The Aristocrats"...
/

47 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:44:42pm

re: #44 avanti

The right is looking for any bad spin they can find on Libya. They talk about possible defections from the no fly zone, but fail to mention that having any help is better than going it alone. When other countries agree to help with logistics at least, they are silent. I honestly believe that some on the right want the mission to fail, not unlike some on the left felt about the Bush surge.
I don't care where you are in the political spectrum, hoping to score political points by cheering against your countries best interest is just lame.

Yeah, it's amazing how fast supporting the president in war, right or wrong, went out of vogue when Obama became the CinC.

48 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:45:38pm

re: #44 avanti

The right is looking for any bad spin they can find on Libya. They talk about possible defections from the no fly zone, but fail to mention that having any help is better than going it alone. When other countries agree to help with logistics at least, they are silent. I honestly believe that some on the right want the mission to fail, not unlike some on the left felt about the Bush surge.
I don't care where you are in the political spectrum, hoping to score political points by cheering against your countries best interest is just lame.

If tomorrow Obama saved 100 children from a burning building the right would [fabricate] a reason to complain.

49 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:46:44pm

Obama. Derangement. Syndrome.

Pure and simple.

50 jaunte  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:47:34pm

re: #48 Gus 802

- Interfering with firefighters' jobs
- Entering private property without permission
- Not getting there soon enough to keep the fire from starting

51 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:47:38pm

I think it was bad during Clinton and Bush but the outright blind hatred for everything Obama does on the right is nothing like what I saw under Clinton and Bush. When a sizable part of the right doesn't accept Obama is a legitimate American let alone a legitimate president then you get big problems.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:48:06pm

re: #50 jaunte

- Interfering with firefighters' jobs
- Entering private property without permission
- Not getting there soon enough to keep the fire from starting

Or they'd claim he started the fire himself so he could be a hero.

53 MinisterO  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:48:39pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

I for one would love to see the "values voters" try to portray Newt the serial adulterer and disowner of his own sister as being a man of better values than Obama.

If it comes down to Newt and Obama, they'll do it. And they'll do it with absolute sincerity.

I dread it because they're very very good at convincing the public of things they'd have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City.

54 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:48:46pm

re: #48 Gus 802

If tomorrow Obama saved 100 children from a burning building the right would [fabricate] a reason to complain.

Socialism! Those children should have pulled themselves out of that building by their own bootstraps.

55 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:48:54pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

Or they'd claim he ACORN or SEIU started the fire himself so he could be a hero.

Alternates. :)

It was an Alinsky plot!!11ty

56 Darlington  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:49:22pm

re: #48 Gus 802

If tomorrow Obama saved 100 children from a burning building the right would [fabricate] a reason to complain.

Not only did Obama rescue the children from the school, he also rescued the teachers! Surely this means he is in the pockets of the public employee unions!

57 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:49:53pm

re: #47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, it's amazing how fast supporting the president in war, right or wrong, went out of vogue when Obama became the CinC.

except it didn't

58 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:49:54pm

re: #32 GNIDAthe#seCond

I'm not sure if the Daily Mail has been infiltrated by pro-Gaddafi forces: "Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart"

Political move: state elections coming up next week and the ruling conservative coalition cannot afford to lose any more votes (they just backed down on extending the running times for Gemrany's nuclear plants, which were supposed to be phased out over the next ten years)

But this will cost them any chance at a seat on the UN security council, a prize they have been exeing for years

59 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:49:56pm

re: #50 jaunte

- Interfering with firefighters' jobs
- Entering private property without permission
- Not getting there soon enough to keep the fire from starting

-Interfering with God's plan
-Executive Government overreach

60 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:51:20pm

re: #36 Lidane

It's the Daily Fail. I wouldn't look for legitimate news there. You're better off with The Weekly World News. =P

Keep in mind that the Daily Fail is a Rupert Murdoch publication. I suspect that's significant.

61 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:51:47pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

-Interfering with God's plan
-Executive Government overreach

He arrived in a French fire truck! American LaFrance!!11ty

America shouldn't try and be like the Europeans!!11ty

//

I know, American LaFrance is not a French company.

62 jaunte  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:52:27pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul sez 'No Constitutional Authority for Fire Quenching.'

63 garhighway  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:52:37pm

OT:

As a frequent flyer, this story scares me:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Two planes landed at Washington National without any support from the airport's ATC because he was asleep! Bad on so many levels:

There was only one controller? At National?
Isn't that really, really close to some pretty important real estate?
And isn't that a pretty busy airport?

64 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:52:50pm

"I have met the enemy,and the enemy is me"!

Newt

65 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:52:50pm

re: #55 Gus 802

Alternates. :)

It was an Alinsky plot!!11ty

or George Soros, that guy is why the pizza sometimes comes late.

66 garhighway  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:53:06pm

re: #62 jaunte

Ron Paul sez 'No Constitutional Authority for Fire Quenching.'

Scalia and Thomas would say that, too.

67 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:53:23pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

or George Soros, that guy is why the pizza sometimes comes late.

George Soros is the Skynet of liberalism.

/

68 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:53:25pm

re: #61 Gus 802

He arrived in a French fire truck! American LaFrance!!11ty

America shouldn't try and be like the Europeans!!11ty

//

I know, American LaFrance is not a French company.

Upding for a joke I had to Google. Funny and educational.

69 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:54:51pm

re: #68 Charleston Chew

Upding for a joke I had to Google. Funny and educational.

Yeah. They've been around for a long time. Looks like they almost went under and hard to declare Chap. 11.

70 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:54:54pm

re: #64 reloadingisnotahobby

"I have met the enemy,and the enemy is me"!

Newt

The next step is to clone and run against himself as the only two viable candidates.

Which seems to work until the robot vote comes in and Nixon's head wins in an upset.

71 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:57:53pm

O/T

Bahrain suspends flights to and from Lebanon
The National (Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates) 03/24/2011
Author: Ivan Gale

"Civil unrest in Bahrain continues to disrupt operations for local airlines, with the country's civil aviation authority suspending flights to and from Lebanon.

The ban was reportedly enacted in response to concerns that Shiite group Hizbollah was providing declarations of support for the sectarian unrest in Bahrain.

"This decision was taken after the irresponsible comments and stances from Lebanon against Bahrain, its people and leaders," state-owned Bahrain news agency cited a statement from the Civil Aviation Affairs department as saying."

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be a very hot and troubling spring/summer in the Middle East....

72 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:58:02pm

re: #69 Gus 802

Yeah. They've been around for a long time. Looks like they almost went under and hard to declare Chap. 11.

With governments looking to cut costs, it's probably not a good time to be in the firetruck business right now.

73 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 1:58:26pm

So when is Beck going to throw his hat in for 20.........
Whoa! My head nearly exploded by )( that much!

74 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:02:50pm
The funniest part of all this thrashing is that Obama has completely tied the right wing in knots over Libya, just by acting like a President of the United States.


President Obama continues to fuck up the GOP by simply being President of the United States. He doesn't "act" presidential. All the wannabes do that. President Obama IS presidential.

Suck it, Newt.

75 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:06:27pm

There was an essay in the WSJ today by Ron Johnson, a Republican Congressman in Wisconsin. I hesitate to link to it, but it has been copied in the right wing blogs as another part of their bible.

R.J. speaks of his daughter who was born with a heart defect, and survived, but it is the dishonest way he uses his own child for political gain that disgusts me, although I wouldn't be entirely surprised to find he believes all his own words.

Specifically, he says;

I don’t even want to think what might have happened if she had been born at a time and place where government defined the limits for most insurance policies and set precedents on what would be covered. Would the life-saving procedures that saved her have been deemed cost-effective by policy makers deciding where to spend increasingly scarce tax dollars?

Now in my simplistic mind (/), I know that this is exactly what insurance companies in the USA do, for profit; and that this is very much what the health care reform is supposed to stop, or reduce.

He also says:

She wasn’t saved by a bureaucrat, and no government mandate forced her parents to purchase the coverage that saved her. Instead, her care was provided under a run-of-the-mill plan available to every employee of an Oshkosh, Wis., plastics plant.

So he had insurance, but he doesn't say what he would advocate for those in the same situation who don't have insurance, or could have had insurance but didn't want to spend the money.

These people make me sick.

76 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:08:00pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

The brit tabloids have just learned that they can get a lot of traffic inventing crap for gullible American wingnuts. Anyone who can google will easily find the truth...
Germany commits air force to Afghanistan, defends Libya vote

So are the wingnuts going after Germany yet? Seems like a long standing conflict between Germany and NATO. Otherwise, there's also this:

Germany's Afghanistan mission extended by one year

The German parliament has voted to extend the military mission in Afghanistan by one year despite polls suggesting its unpopularity at home.

Germany currently has 4,860 service personnel deployed in Afghanistan as part of the international peacekeeping force Isaf.

Extending the mandate to 31 January 2012, parliament set the maximum troop number at 5,350...

Back to NATO. Spiegel is reporting:

Chancellor Angela Merkel's government approved a plan to send AWACS surveillance planes to Afghanistan in order to free up NATO capacity for operations in Libya. The trans-Atlantic alliance looks set to take over control of the ongoing bombardment of forces loyal to dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

The government of German Chancellor Angela Merkel elected not to take part in the United Nations-approved military operations in Libya. On Wednesday, however, her cabinet voted to increase Germany's role in surveillance flights over Afghanistan in an effort to free up NATO AWACS planes for ongoing air strikes in North Africa.

The decision, said Defense Minister Thomas de Maizière, is a "political sign of our solidarity with the alliance." When it comes to standing by its NATO allies, he added, the government doesn't "require instruction from anyone."

77 shutdown  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:09:10pm

re: #75 Naso Tang

My nephew had testicular cancer, and his parents had to fight the insurance company every step of the way once initial limits and regular treatments had been exhausted. This was under GWB. Talk about death panels. (He survived, and is doing well, btw)

78 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:12:59pm

Basically it sounds like Germany pulled their AWACS plane from NATO/Libya in order to free up the other coalition AWACS aircraft to work in Libya. IOW, and exchange of sorts. Germany decided not to be involved with Libya but will continue to support ops in Afghanistan.

79 Charleston Chew  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:13:24pm

re: #75 Naso Tang

The claim that government insurance would lead to rationing when in fact private insurance involves rationing everywhere everyday is one of the current hypocrisies that really hypers my tension right now.

80 Sionainn  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:17:57pm

re: #75 Naso Tang

"I don’t even want to think what might have happened if she had been born at a time and place where government defined the limits for most insurance policies and set precedents on what would be covered."


Where does he think the insurance companies get their guidelines? Most of them use the Medicare guidelines.

81 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:18:37pm

re: #79 Charleston Chew

I would have thought that more people would have had a relative or friend that fought a losing battle with an insurance company, but I think people are often embarrassed to talk about financial hardship. I didn't find out that my mom had fought an epic three year battle to fund one of my brother's operations until just the other day, and that happened ten years ago.

82 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:19:42pm

Correction to my #75.

He is a Senator, not Congressman.

83 MinisterO  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:20:58pm

re: #75 Naso Tang



She wasn’t saved by a bureaucrat, and no government mandate forced her parents to purchase the coverage that saved her. Instead, her care was provided under a run-of-the-mill plan available to every employee of an Oshkosh, Wis., plastics plant.


A multi-millionaire fantasizing about ACA (aka obamacare) taking away health insurance for his daughter, apparently oblivious to the fact that it does quite the opposite.

This asshattery brought to you by WSJ.

84 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:21:40pm

The grouchy far left commenters on my local NPR station are tying themselves in knots over Obama these last few days too.

It is to laugh, ha ha ha on everything.

85 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:23:15pm
86 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:24:25pm

re: #85 MikeySDCA

Newtzie is gross.

Tres gross.

87 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:25:50pm

I've been Pro-Action in Libya for weeks, so this moron can go screw himself with a rusty pole. I hate when people act this hypocritical/flip-floppy. Kucinich is a nut too.

In other news, this very much worries me:

9:23pm Reuters: Doctor in Misurata saying government tanks are closing in on the hospital and shelling the area.

89 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:28:09pm

And it's not like Germany is 100 percent out of the loop with regards to Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn which you can see here and here.

90 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:28:47pm

It's like they have such contempt for the American people and such disregard for the truth that they'll consistently say one thing and then its exact opposite in the same breath. Here's Gingrich today, but Beck did something similar just a couple of days ago, and now there is this:

Mike Pence, Chief Sponsor Of Bill To Defund Title X, Says ‘I’ve Never Advocated Reducing Funding For Title X’

To(mis) quote Mary Mccarthy on Lillian Hellman, Every word they say is a lie, including ""ánd'" and "the".

91 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:29:52pm

I just wonder when all this crap is coming to bite us in the ass. We can intervene in any country where their government is fighting its' citizens. Would we accept that if the fighting was here.

Just posing the question.

92 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:29:59pm

And now this:

10:41pm Reuters: Government tanks loyal to Gaddafi are positioned at the eastern and western entrances of the city of Ajdabiyah, Arabiya television reported.

94 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:31:23pm

re: #90 iceweasel

It's like they have such contempt for the American people and such disregard for the truth that they'll consistently say one thing and then its exact opposite in the same breath. Here's Gingrich today, but Beck did something similar just a couple of days ago, and now there is this:

Mike Pence, Chief Sponsor Of Bill To Defund Title X, Says ‘I’ve Never Advocated Reducing Funding For Title X’

To(mis) quote Mary Mccarthy on Lillian Hellman, Every word they say is a lie, including ""ánd'" and "the".

I was for it before I was against it.

I'm definitely against anything Obama does even if it's something that I used to support. I'll just reverse my previous opinion in order to contradict the president. Regardless.

//

95 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:31:46pm

re: #93 iceweasel

Beck Upset Obama Didn't Act On Libya -- Then, 20 Seconds Later, Upset That He Did

Beck is an idiot, but more dangerous that Newtie boy.

96 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:31:50pm

re: #92 ProLifeLiberal

And now this:

Away from people and buildings, I hope. Makes them easier targets. Sorry, but that motherfucker has to go.

97 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #91 haavamaal

Gaddafi was using massive force (tanks, fighters, helicopters) against civilians. What you are saying is hyperbolic. I seriously doubt things would get to that level in the US.

98 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:33:11pm

re: #94 Gus 802

I was for it before I was against it.

I'm definitely against anything Obama does even if it's something that I used to support. I'll just reverse my previous opinion in order to contradict the president. Regardless.

//

And these are the people who spent the last eight years smearing everyone else as únpatriotic if not downright treasonous for disagreeing with Bush on something.

99 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:34:29pm

re: #96 darthstar

Agree completely. He must be gotten rid now, because if allowed to stay, he would act like he did in the 80's with terrorist attacks and supporting terror groups.

100 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:34:47pm

re: #98 iceweasel

And these are the people who spent the last eight years smearing everyone else as únpatriotic if not downright treasonous for disagreeing with Bush on something.

consistency other than being consistently hypocritical is not one of their strong points.

101 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:35:47pm

re: #97 ProLifeLiberal

Gaddafi was using massive force (tanks, fighters, helicopters) against civilians. What you are saying is hyperbolic. I seriously doubt things would get to that level in the US.

I agree that the asshat has to go. Thinking that won't happen here is quite naive. We are only 275 years old. It will happen here. It happens everywhere eventually.

102 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:36:44pm

re: #98 iceweasel

And these are the people who spent the last eight years smearing everyone else as únpatriotic if not downright treasonous for disagreeing with Bush on something.

Perzactly. Especially anything within the context of military operations. But heck. The wingnuts went batshit crazy right off the bay with the Somalia/Pirate crisis. They all think they're military experts.

103 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:38:18pm

re: #101 haavamaal

We're young culturally, but government-wise, we are quite old. Very few (less than 10) governments have been operating continuously for this long.

104 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:38:26pm

I still think it's possible that Gaddafi is going to suddenly fold, and make a deal to spend the rest of his life under house arrest in Saudi Arabia or Venezuela.

It will be tougher to justify the intervention if the no-fly zone continues for an extended time, though.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:38:31pm

re: #84 Ojoe

The grouchy far left commenters on my local NPR station are tying themselves in knots over Obama these last few days too.

It is to laugh, ha ha ha on everything.

Have any of them completely reversed position this month, though?

106 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:39:18pm

re: #104 Charles

I still think it's possible that Gaddafi is going to suddenly fold, and make a deal to spend the rest of his life under house arrest in Saudi Arabia or Venezuela.

It will be tougher to justify the intervention if the no-fly zone continues for an extended time, though.

That would really suck. He could cause some serious damage to the US in either of those places.

107 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:41:42pm

re: #103 ProLifeLiberal

We're young culturally, but government-wise, we are quite old. Very few (less than 10) governments have been operating continuously for this long.

I believe it was Plato that estimated the life of a representative republic at 250 years. Given the polarization and atmosphere I would be shocked to see it last another 100. And no I'm not some dumbass beck drone. I'm just following events to the logical conclusion.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:42:26pm

re: #107 haavamaal

I believe it was Plato that estimated the life of a representative republic at 250 years. Given the polarization and atmosphere I would be shocked to see it last another 100. And no I'm not some dumbass beck drone. I'm just following events to the logical conclusion.

Let's not borrow trouble. Sufficient unto this week is the shit going on at the moment.

109 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:43:34pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Let's not borrow trouble. Sufficient unto this week is the shit going on at the moment.

Do doubt there my friend!!

110 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:44:22pm

Something to read...

My position on Libya
by Newt Gingrich on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 at 1:36pm

111 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:44:25pm

meant to type "No Doubt..."

112 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:44:48pm

Excuse if someone has posted this, but it's Onion-quality. Sheriff Arpaio and Steven Seagal's armored attack on a neighborhood cockfight:

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

113 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:46:14pm

re: #17 lostlakehiker

Gingrich is going to have fun explaining those two quotes when they're posted side by side in a campaign commercial by one of his competitors for the GOP nomination.

He's Palinizing himself.

I'm not sure why you think that directly contradicting oneself in order to oppose Obama can be painted as a negative in Conservative circles.

To the modern American Conservative cultist, the only consistency that matters is that you oppose Obama (and, naturally, liberals). As long as you consistently do that, you are a man or woman of conviction. It is in fact laudable that he changed his position so as to more steadily oppose the evil one. That shows passion for America.

114 haavamaal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:47:00pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Excuse if someone has posted this, but it's Onion-quality. Sheriff Arpaio and Steven Seagal's armored attack on a neighborhood cockfight:

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

THAT'S PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!

115 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:47:33pm

From CNN
Awful news in Libya, and if true exactly why the air campaign is the right thing to do...
[5:30 p.m. Wednesday ET, 11:30 p.m. in Libya] Tanks belonging to Gadhafi's forces shelled the main hospital of rebel-held Misrata this afternoon, a witness told CNN.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:48:48pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

From CNN
Awful news in Libya, and if true exactly why the air campaign is the right thing to do...
[5:30 p.m. Wednesday ET, 11:30 p.m. in Libya] Tanks belonging to Gadhafi's forces shelled the main hospital of rebel-held Misrata this afternoon, a witness told CNN.

Didn't that happen a couple of days ago?

I'm starting to lose track of all this.

117 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:49:24pm

Boehner complains...

Speaker Boehner Letter to President Obama on Military Action in Libya

118 Buck  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:49:57pm

#0 Charles

he is not the only one who is back flipping.. Certainly many who would not have approved of this action if BUSH had done it (proving the most important priority for the left and the Democratic party is to oppose absolutely anything and everything that President Bush does, even if they have to trip over their own clown shoes to do it.


Joe Biden Warned In 2007 That He'd Impeach Bush For Waging War Without Congressional Approval.

119 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:50:08pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

Damn it! An hour ago they were heding for it! I feel bad that France, Britain, Canada, and us couldn't stop it.

I'm emotionally invested in this whole thing.

120 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:50:46pm

Frankly, Rodney Dangerfield did a much more credible job executing the Triple Lindy than Newt does on his backflip.

Youtube Video
122 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:52:24pm

re: #118 Buck

#0 Charles

he is not the only one who is back flipping.. Certainly many who would not have approved of this action if BUSH had done it (proving the most important priority for the left and the Democratic party is to oppose absolutely anything and everything that President Bush does, even if they have to trip over their own clown shoes to do it.

Joe Biden Warned In 2007 That He'd Impeach Bush For Waging War Without Congressional Approval.

Did you look closely at what Biden said?

"I asked them to put together [for] me a draft, which I'm now literally riding between towns editing, that I want to make clear and submit to the Untied States Senate pointing out the president has no authority to unilaterally attack Iran. And I want to make it clear, I want it on the record, and I want to make it clear, if he does, as chairman of the foreign relations committee and former chair of the judiciary committee, I will move to impeach him."

Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally

123 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:52:24pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

Didn't that happen a couple of days ago?

I'm starting to lose track of all this.

IIRC, a couple of days ago, they actually entered a hospital to kill people. They are probably shelling by tank, which can be done at a greater distance, because the West's air cover makes it more difficult to approach that closely.

124 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:53:02pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it has happened again at least if the date stamp is right...

125 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:53:26pm

re: #121 iceweasel

Newt still flipping:

Caught In Libya Flip-Flop, Newt Gingrich Offers Incoherent And Contradictory Defense

@GlennBecksPeck
Newt Gingrich is the world's foremost collector of Libyan positions.

126 Buck  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:53:58pm

re: #122 Gus 802

He might have meant without congress. But you think he meant without the UN.

Maybe.... maybe not. Did you watch the video?

127 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:54:10pm

re: #125 Gus 802

@GlennBecksPeck
Newt Gingrich is the world's foremost collector of Libyan positions.

Brilliant!

128 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:55:12pm

re: #121 iceweasel

In the '90's he was a hardball GOP player. Forced President Clinton to triangulate and compromise. Now he is just a goofball sideshow. A potential spoiler for a better candidate.

129 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:55:41pm

re: #125 Gus 802

I'll let someone else make the dirty joke.

Seriously, though, I'm pissed about the hospital. I wish I could help, but being Autistic, the military would accept me.

130 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:55:46pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Excuse if someone has posted this, but it's Onion-quality. Sheriff Arpaio and Steven Seagal's armored attack on a neighborhood cockfight:

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

"115 birds were euthanized on the spot."

WTF?

131 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:56:44pm

re: #118 Buck

The sad reality is that many on the right suffer from ODS in the same way that many on the left suffered from BDS for the previous 8 years. For the rest of us, we can only hope that the hyper-partisanship that has affected our politics for the past decade and change will eventually give way to a saner, more moderate politics that is willing to acknowledge and accept good ideas and reject bad ideas regardless of which political party proposes them.

132 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:57:01pm

re: #128 Rightwingconspirator

In the '90's he was a hardball GOP player. Forced President Clinton to triangulate and compromise. Now he is just a goofball sideshow. A potential spoiler for a better candidate.

He was a goofball during the last gubbmint shutdown and his contract with America. It's a measure of how desperate the right is that he's a viable candidate.
It's also a measure of our amnesiac press corps.

133 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:57:06pm

re: #126 Buck

He might have meant without congress. But you think he meant without the UN.

Maybe... maybe not. Did you watch the video?

I don't know but his mentioning unilaterally does imply not having UN backing. What's going on in Libya has UN backing and is comprised of several coalition nations. I don't think we can equate Libya (bilateral) to a unilateral attack on Iran. It's also not equal in a military sense.

134 Buck  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:57:08pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Did you look closely at what Biden said?

Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally

On the video he says.... "If he (Bush) takes this nation to war with Iran, I will impeach him"

135 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:57:39pm

re: #134 Buck

On the video he says... "If he (Bush) takes this nation to war with Iran, I will impeach him"

Again. "This nation". That implies a unilateral move.

136 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:57:47pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Excuse if someone has posted this, but it's Onion-quality. Sheriff Arpaio and Steven Seagal's armored attack on a neighborhood cockfight:

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

Dear god...that idiot should just run for congress or senate already. Seagal, I mean, not Arpaio.

137 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:58:04pm

Encouraging news about collateral damage:

1:16pm

Our correspondent Anita McNaught, in Tripoli, journalists were driven around the city earlier today with a promise from the government of being taken to see the scene of a coaltion air strike, some civilian casualties, maybe even a hospital.

But none of this happened. After being driven around for 45 minuets or so, we were being taken back to the hotel and they said they couldn't find the right address."


138 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:59:18pm

re: #129 ProLifeLiberal

I'll let someone else make the dirty joke.

Seriously, though, I'm pissed about the hospital. I wish I could help, but being Autistic, the military would not accept me.

139 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 2:59:37pm

And seriously. Who cares what Biden said 4 years ago.

140 Buck  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:00:32pm

re: #135 Gus 802

Again. "This nation". That implies a unilateral move.

OK, so The USA is not at war with Iraq or Afghanistan.

George W Bush did not take the USA ("this nation") to war with either country. I think you are splitting hairs, but have at it...

141 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:02:12pm

re: #102 Gus 802

Perzactly. Especially anything within the context of military operations. But heck. The wingnuts went batshit crazy right off the bay with the Somalia/Pirate crisis. They all think they're military experts.

101st fighting keyboard kommandos
81st chairbourne
screen berets
yellow elephant

I think that covers it all.

142 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:02:43pm

re: #136 darthstar

Dear god...that idiot should just run for congress or senate already. Seagal, I mean, not Arpaio.

Hope he wasn't using this--it's really a 155mm self-propelled gun:

Image: 98WZ_RP_hunt_arizona_tank.jpg

His other "tank" also isn't a tank--some kind of APC:

Image: JoesTank.jpg

143 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:02:48pm

re: #140 Buck

OK, so The USA is not at war with Iraq or Afghanistan.

George W Bush did not take the USA ("this nation") to war with either country. I think you are splitting hairs, but have at it...

Splitting hairs? We're talking about Gingrich said today. T-o-d-a-y. President Bush flip flopped on "nation building" and being the "world's policeman" before he took us to war with Iraq and into Afghanistan.

144 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:03:23pm

re: #141 iceweasel

101st fighting keyboard kommandos
81st chairbourne
screen berets
yellow elephant

I think that covers it all.

You forgot the 8th Chairforce.

//

145 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:03:33pm

re: #143 Gus 802

Splitting hairs? We're talking about Gingrich said today. T-o-d-a-y. President Bush flip flopped on "nation building" and being the "world's policeman" before he took us to war with Iraq and into Afghanistan.

Yeah, well, BIDEN.

146 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:05:38pm

re: #137 ProLifeLiberal
Gingrich/Palin/Huckabee wouldn't dither...they'd create a shitload of collateral damage then recycle that great headline from the previous administration: "We don't do body counts." So manly. Like Old Spice on an aging hooker.

147 Buck  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:05:46pm

re: #139 Gus 802

And seriously. Who cares what Biden said 4 years ago.

Biden is the current VP... Gingrich does not hold elected office.

AND the VP is not the only one who seems to have changed his mind about military action without the direct threat to the USA.

148 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:05:47pm

I must say, I'm not liking FireFox 4.0.

149 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:06:29pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

"115 birds were euthanized on the spot."

WTF?

I love the smell of BBQ sauce in the morning.

150 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:06:38pm

re: #147 Buck

Biden is the current VP... Gingrich does not hold elected office.

AND the VP is not the only one who seems to have changed his mind about military action without the direct threat to the USA.

Lol, Gingrich changed his mind in a matter of a few days...

151 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:06:42pm

re: #148 Varek Raith

It doesn't like my Adobe Reader.
:(

152 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:06:52pm

re: #148 Varek Raith

I must say, I'm not liking FireFox 4.0.

Never install a .0 version of a product.

153 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:07:18pm

re: #147 Buck

Biden is the current VP... Gingrich does not hold elected office.

AND the VP is not the only one who seems to have changed his mind about military action without the direct threat to the USA.

OK. You win. Since Biden said Bush should be impeached if we attacked Iran we have two choices: a) immediately withdraw from combat operation in Libya or b) impeach President Bush. What's your choice?

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:07:44pm

re: #118 Buck

#0 Charles

he is not the only one who is back flipping.. Certainly many who would not have approved of this action if BUSH had done it (proving the most important priority for the left and the Democratic party is to oppose absolutely anything and everything that President Bush does, even if they have to trip over their own clown shoes to do it.

Joe Biden Warned In 2007 That He'd Impeach Bush For Waging War Without Congressional Approval.

It doesn't strike you as even slightly unusual to change your stance on an actual specific action as soon as the President does what you already said you wanted him to do?

155 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:07:45pm

re: #153 Gus 802

OK. You win. Since Biden said Bush should be impeached if we attacked Iran we have two choices: a) immediately withdraw from combat operation in Libya or b) impeach President Bush Obama. What's your choice?

Oops.

156 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:08:19pm

re: #132 iceweasel

Uninspired press, rushing to fill the 24/7 news cycle.
*waves*

157 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:08:29pm

GOP: How dare the President make us look like fools by listening to what we said before.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:08:46pm

re: #123 sliv_the_eli

IIRC, a couple of days ago, they actually entered a hospital to kill people. They are probably shelling by tank, which can be done at a greater distance, because the West's air cover makes it more difficult to approach that closely.

You're right. That's what I'm recalling.

God damn it.

159 The Left  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:09:06pm

re: #156 Floral Giraffe

Uninspired press, rushing to fill the 24/7 news cycle.
*waves*

*waving back* How are you? Hope things are good.

160 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:10:03pm

And how do we know that Biden isn't pissed off at Obama over Libya? It's not like he's going to express that opinion as VP. Different ground rules here.

161 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:11:11pm

BRB

162 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:12:10pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Have any of them completely reversed position this month, though?

Well I don't have the stomach to listen to NPR & Pacifica consistently, much less to keep a log, but I would say that their support for Obama has undergone an erosion which has recently accelerated, & this Libya intervention has them almost calling Obama a warmonger.

163 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:13:20pm

daveweigel daveweigel

I found a helpful website that decodes Newt Gingrich policy statements: [Link: bit.ly...]

whoo boy

164 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:13:40pm

And congratulations to the right wingers spreading the Biden impeachment meme of the day. You're now in the company of Alex Jones/Prisonplanet.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:14:13pm

re: #162 Ojoe

Well I don't have the stomach to listen to NPR & Pacifica consistently, much less to keep a log, but I would say that their support for Obama has undergone an erosion which has recently accelerated, & this Libya intervention has them almost calling Obama a warmonger.

Well yes, but that's a consistent position. They don't like presidents who use U.S. military force.

166 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:14:18pm

re: #163 Stanley Sea

daveweigel daveweigel

I found a helpful website that decodes Newt Gingrich policy statements: [Link: bit.ly...]

whoo boy

WTH?

167 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:14:27pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

& as Palin early called for a no-fly zone, it is funny to see them put Obama and Palin in the same bucket.

168 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:14:56pm

re: #131 sliv_the_eli

The sad reality is that many on the right suffer from ODS in the same way that many on the left suffered from BDS for the previous 8 years. For the rest of us, we can only hope that the hyper-partisanship that has affected our politics for the past decade and change will eventually give way to a saner, more moderate politics that is willing to acknowledge and accept good ideas and reject bad ideas regardless of which political party proposes them.

I think it'll be a cold day in hell if that happens.

The politicians are going to play games, publicly. They want that fringe vote; the middle votes are pretty much settled. So they will try to court those fringes. What we don't always know is what goes on in private between members of the different parties. I suspect it's often quite different that the public rhetoric we hear.

What is true is that:
1. We will elect a President every 4 years, and some people will be supportive of that President's domestic policies, others will oppose them.
2. If there is a world crisis, our government officials will more often than not do what it is they need to do, even if it doesn't match up with their campaign rhetoric.
3. The World As We Know It Will Not End.

Now, I voted for McCain and the Palin idiot. But when the election was over, well, that was that. But among many who were here at the time, I saw absolute raw, naked fear - true fear - at the election result. I was taken aback by the depth of it.

But the predictions of disaster have not come to pass - there's plenty I don't like, but our lives go on pretty much as they always have. I think the hyper-partisans on both sides are quite often the ones we see posting posting at blogs, etc. Most of the rest of us just go about doing what we've always done.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:15:13pm

re: #167 Ojoe

& as Palin early called for a no-fly zone, it is funny to see them put Obama and Palin in the same bucket.

I don't imagine either Palin or Obama are flattered by that.

170 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:15:56pm

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, that is consistent, you have to grant them that.

They are the of same ilk that passed the infamous Oxford Debating resolution in the late 1930s.

171 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:16:22pm

re: #159 iceweasel

All is good!
Homework 1/2 done, even!

172 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:16:41pm

re: #166 Gus 802

WTH?

Ah, stop reading. It's ugly.

Thanks DAVE!

173 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:16:42pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL.

174 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:17:27pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

Ah, stop reading. It's ugly.

Thanks DAVE!

Yeah. Some nutcase website.

175 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:18:59pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Don't worry, I had the same reaction.

176 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:23:31pm

re: #101 haavamaal

I agree that the asshat has to go. Thinking that won't happen here is quite naive. We are only 275 years old. It will happen here. It happens everywhere eventually.

What you seem oblivious to is that where it has happened is where there has never been a system of democratic principles.

We did do it once. Now it is your turn to explain what needs to happen for us to do it again, and who you think will make the decision for us.

177 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:23:57pm

re: #136 darthstar

At least Seagall would know how to deal with some of the asshats, on both sides of the aisle, that infest, I mean inhabit, those two chambers.

178 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:24:19pm

I just saw this tweet. I don't know who this is or the context. Can a Canadian in the room explain?

rickmercer So is the message of the day is that Canada is a great democracy but elections threaten that?

179 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:24:38pm

re: #175 ProLifeLiberal

Don't worry, I had the same reaction.

From Wiki:

Time Cube is a website created by Gene Ray in 1997 where he sets out his personal model of reality, which he calls Time Cube. As well as suggesting that all of modern physics is wrong,[2] the model proposes that each day is really four separate days occurring simultaneously. John C. Dvorak wrote in PC Magazine that "Metasites that track crackpot sites often say this is the number one nutty site."

And from Maine Campus:

If you continue to scroll down the endless page, you’ll notice subtle little racist ideologies. It builds and builds, until finally he explodes with “Integration is a racial slop, destroying all of the races.”

At one point, Ray promises a thousand dollar reward to anyone who can prove that the earth is not a four-sided sphere. This sounds like an easy task. Unfortunately, to win you also need to convince him that his theory is bonkers. That would require an answer spoken in his brand of spaceman logic. Even if you could pull that off with the rising costs of Web space and tinfoil helmets, Ray is probably broke.

The page is not to be taken lightly. If you read Ray for too long you will experience physical pain from the onslaught of lunacy. Do not try to make sense of the illogical flow of bad science and conspiracy theorem or you may experience the pain of death fourfold.

Weirdo Weirdo Weirdo Weirdo Weirdo Weirdo

180 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:24:45pm

re: #139 Gus 802

Or 4 hours ago, for that matter.

181 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:26:15pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

"115 birds were euthanized on the spot."

WTF?

Sad but it's one of those situations where there isn't much that can be done with roos that have been picked/trained to be attackers like this. You can't really rehabilitate chickens. They're brutal.

182 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:26:15pm

The real issue here is if the whole coalition and it's mission is having much effect on the situation.

Despite coalition airstrikes, troops loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi continued to terrorize residents of the besieged rebel-held city of Misrata on Wednesday

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

The coalition military operation against Moammar Gadhafi has made good progress toward its goals of destroying the Libyan dictator's air defenses and establishing a no-fly zone over the country. But that, it seems, was the easy part. Far more difficult are the questions of who should now lead the mission and what the operation's ultimate objectives should be.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it appears to me that this is turning into a cluster fuck of premature ejaculators... who may have damaged Mo's ability to fly jets and drop bombs, but have to pull out soon and leave a bloody ground war behind.

183 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:28:59pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

This is the Obama principle of leading by committee?/

184 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:29:05pm

re: #181 Jadespring

You can't really rehabilitate chickens. They're brutal.


I used to have chickens, This is true. They'd peck the last chicken on the pecking order until it was a bloody mess.

It is very OK to kill and eat chickens, if you ask me.

185 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:29:18pm

re: #178 ProLifeLiberal

I just saw this tweet. I don't know who this is or the context. Can a Canadian in the room explain?

We're in a political situation where the gov't is going down over the budget. Non-confidence vote. Plus Harper's govies has been found in contempt of Parliament this week. It's pretty much going to happen within the next couple of days but the rhetoric is flying back and forth.

186 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:29:59pm

re: #177 sliv_the_eli

At least Seagall would know how to deal with some of the asshats, on both sides of the aisle, that infest, I mean inhabit, those two chambers.

No he wouldn't. He'd sit there dumbfounded because everyone else in the room would use big words and his fake buddhist bullshit would only make him look like an idiot.

187 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:30:07pm

re: #185 Jadespring

Will Harper lose an election? He seems like a clown to me.

188 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:30:15pm

re: #185 Jadespring

We're in a political situation where the gov't is going down over the budget. Non-confidence vote. Plus Harper's govies has been found in contempt of Parliament this week. It's pretty much going to happen within the next couple of days but the rhetoric is flying back and forth.

Oh and 'non-confidence' equals and election call so lots of election posturing going on right now.

189 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:30:41pm

BBL

190 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:32:54pm

re: #187 ProLifeLiberal

Will Harper lose an election? He seems like a clown to me.

I have no idea. The current polls are tight right now. If he does win it would likely be a minority situation. However the other parties would likely not be doing the non-confidence thing if they didn't think there was a decent shot at them losing.

191 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:34:40pm

re: #184 Ojoe

I used to have chickens, This is true. They'd peck the last chicken on the pecking order until it was a bloody mess.

It is very OK to kill and eat chickens, if you ask me.

Yeah just the other week my chickens took out the lowest one.

192 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:35:27pm

re: #191 Jadespring

Yeah just the other week my chickens took out the lowest one.

And the hawk got the highest one? Or was that an eagle...?

193 blueraven  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:36:31pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Did you look closely at what Biden said?

Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally Unilaterally


Stop with the

NUANCE

Gus!

194 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:37:38pm

re: #190 Jadespring

What's a likely situation after the election? Prime Minister Ignatieff possible?

195 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:37:53pm

re: #168 reine.de.tout

I think it'll be a cold day in hell if that happens.

The politicians are going to play games, publicly. They want that fringe vote; the middle votes are pretty much settled. So they will try to court those fringes. What we don't always know is what goes on in private between members of the different parties. I suspect it's often quite different that the public rhetoric we hear.

What is true is that:
1. We will elect a President every 4 years, and some people will be supportive of that President's domestic policies, others will oppose them.
2. If there is a world crisis, our government officials will more often than not do what it is they need to do, even if it doesn't match up with their campaign rhetoric.
3. The World As We Know It Will Not End.

Now, I voted for McCain and the Palin idiot. But when the election was over, well, that was that. But among many who were here at the time, I saw absolute raw, naked fear - true fear - at the election result. I was taken aback by the depth of it.

But the predictions of disaster have not come to pass - there's plenty I don't like, but our lives go on pretty much as they always have. I think the hyper-partisans on both sides are quite often the ones we see posting posting at blogs, etc. Most of the rest of us just go about doing what we've always done.

Taking your comments backwards (I'm Jewish, I go right to left and down to up), I, too, voted for McCain/Palin, but believe we only have one President at a time, who is entitled to praise when he gets it right and criticism when he gets it wrong.

With respect to the issue of extremes vs. moderation in politics, I don't agree that the middle is settled. On the contrary, it is the extremes within each party that are settled and the middle which is largely apathetic and does not vote in primaries. (Hell, we barely get 60% turnout in the main presidential election). This creates a difficult paradox for those running for president, in that they must navigate a primary process in which they need to attract the votes of the left or right wing of their party (depending on whether they are Dem or Rep), without pissing off the much more vast middle on which they must depend to get elected in the general election. The last candidate who really did that well was Bill Clinton, although he benefitted from the fact that most of the Dems who might have given him a run for his money were too chickens--- to run when they saw GHW Bush's poll numbers after Iraq I. To some extent, President Obama also succeeded in the transition between primary liberal and general election moderate, but there were other factors, chiefly a general and strong anti-Bush and anti-war sentiment and a severe economic meltdown that almost couldn't have been timed better if it was intentional, which played a huge role in his election.

196 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:38:01pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

The real issue here is if the whole coalition and it's mission is having much effect on the situation.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it appears to me that this is turning into a cluster fuck of premature ejaculators... who may have damaged Mo's ability to fly jets and drop bombs, but have to pull out soon and leave a bloody ground war behind.

After Iraq and the never ending war in Afghanistan I'm used to cluster fucks. Plus it's been what? 5 days since this operation began? We had a royal cluster fuck going on in Iraq alone for over 3 years.

197 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:39:03pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

And the hawk got the highest one? Or was that an eagle...?

It was an eagle. It took a duck. The ducks get pissed when the chickens squabble. I've seen the male duck go and break up a roo fight. Got right in between them and slammed each of them in their chest with his bill.

198 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:39:45pm

Organized religion 'will be driven toward extinction' in 9 countries, experts predict

Organized religion will all but vanish eventually from nine Western-style democracies, a team of mathematicians predict in a new paper based on census data stretching back 100 years.

It won't die out completely, but "religion will be driven toward extinction" in countries including Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands, they say.

It will also wither away in Austria, the Czech Republic, Finland and Switzerland, they anticipate.

They can't make a prediction about the United States because the U.S. census doesn't ask about religion, lead author Daniel Abrams told CNN.

But nine other countries provide enough data for detailed mathematical modeling, he said.

199 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:41:11pm

re: #197 Jadespring

It was an eagle. It took a duck. The ducks get pissed when the chickens squabble. I've seen the male duck go and break up a roo fight. Got right in between them and slammed each of them in their chest with his bill.

Wow. Interspecies policing. I had no idea ducks would care.

200 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:41:16pm

re: #186 darthstar

No he wouldn't. He'd sit there dumbfounded because everyone else in the room would use big words and his fake buddhist bullshit would only make him look like an idiot.

If he sat in dubmfounded Congress -- that is, if he didn't say or do anything -- he would by comparison appear to be a genius

201 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:42:38pm

re: #196 Gus 802

After Iraq and the never ending war in Afghanistan I'm used to cluster fucks. Plus it's been what? 5 days since this operation began? We had a royal cluster fuck going on in Iraq alone for over 3 years.

Doesn't change what I said, I'm afraid that Gadaffi doesn't give two shits about loosing air capabilities or navel capabilities, he has enough loyal supporters, mercenaries and money to continue a ground war even if he has to have everyone fighting hand to hand, chopping off body parts, pure old fashioned tribal warfare... and if the coalition want's to keep boot off the ground, then there is no way to stop this in the long run. It's dead Jim.

202 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:43:06pm

I bought a whole roasted chicken today. Guess that means I murdered a chicken.

That's why the chicken crossed the road. To get away from me!

//

203 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:44:28pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Doesn't change what I said, I'm afraid that Gadaffi doesn't give two shits about loosing air capabilities or navel capabilities, he has enough loyal supporters, mercenaries and money to continue a ground war even if he has to have everyone fighting hand to hand, chopping off body parts, pure old fashioned tribal warfare... and if the coalition want's to keep boot off the ground, then there is no way to stop this in the long run. It's dead Jim.

I'll give you 50/50 on that. There's no telling yet if this will work as planned. At the same time there's also no telling if they won't eventually send in ground troops.

204 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:44:49pm

I'm starting to wonder if Fox news has finally damaged its brand enough that nobody takes it seriously anymore. Beck's ratings are falling. Drudge failed to hype Beck's latest outrage about janitor's union plotting terrorism. Fox hyped a bogus story a few days ago about journalists being used as human shields in Libya. Fox New has had an exclusive story at the top of the page all day (Libyan Foreign Minister Reaches Out to U.S. Official) and absolutely no other news organization has picked up the story, I guess everybody assumes since it's from Fox it must be fake.

205 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:46:10pm

re: #195 sliv_the_eli

Oh, I think you're correct about the middle being apathetic - and what they do, is vote straight party-ticket if they vote, which is what I meant when I said the middle was "settled".

The extremes, though - that's the bunch that would probably go for a 3rd party candidate left enough or right enough (depending which side of the spectrum they're on) of the Dem or Rep candidates. And that's the group the politicians try to court, IMO.

206 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:48:06pm

re: #194 ProLifeLiberal

What's a likely situation after the election? Prime Minister Ignatieff possible?

If it's not Harper it would be Ignatieff. I know the Cons are concerned about him because there have been tons of hate ads about Ignatieff on the tv for the past couple of months.

I really am not sure what the outcome would be because I don't know how this contempt of parliament thing is going to play with the public in terms of Harper's rep. You would think that it would be really negative. It should be but whether people care enough about that remains to be seen. Most of the concern is about the economy which whether because of things Harper has done or not is doing pretty good compared to most other places. So Harper I think is going to ride that 'success' and play the 'things are going good because of me, don't change it' election strategy. That's what most of the positive ads have been saying anyway.

It could very well work.

To be honest I'm very much in an I don't care much mood about the whole thing. No one really impresses me right now and I'm sick of elections. Seems like they're happening every couple of years now and it's annoying.
I wouldn't mind seeing Harper go and dread a Con majority but Ignatieff and Layton don't really do much for me either.

207 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:48:30pm

re: #177 sliv_the_eli

At least Seagall would know how to deal with some of the asshats, on both sides of the aisle, that infest, I mean inhabit, those two chambers.

Oh, no.
Seagall has been a reserve sheriff's deputy in Jefferson Parish, La, for many years, and there was a reality show based around it. He's mostly all about Seagall. Not a person I would want in office, that's for sure.

208 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:49:26pm

re: #199 wrenchwench

Wow. Interspecies policing. I had no idea ducks would care.

Me neither it was surprising when it started happening. They share a coop though so maybe it's just a social thing.

209 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:50:20pm

lol, Newt flips again....
My position on Libya
by Newt Gingrich


.....during a March 7th Greta van Susteren interview, I asserted that the president should establish a no-fly zone "this evening.” After March 3rd, the President should have moved immediately to consult with Congress to implement a no-fly zone, while also making it clear the US would welcome involvement from other nations.

Instead, he did the opposite. The President wasted weeks trying to get approval from the United Nations instead of Congress, the result of which was a weak mandate from the UN that changed the mission to one of humanitarian intervention.

Yet, by that standard we should also be using US forces in the Sudan, Syria, Zimbabwe, Yemen and more countries.

Given the President's public statements and the multitude of other humanitarian crises throughout the world, the only rational purpose for an intervention with US forces in Libya is to replace Gadaffi.

Now that we have US forces engaged, any result less than the removal of Gadaffi from power will be considered a defeat.

For that reason, I believe we must support the mission and see it through.

210 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:51:46pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

lol, Newt flips again...
My position on Libya
by Newt Gingrich

Newt Gingrich takes that 3 AM call.

And 3:15 AM, 3:30 AM, 3:45 AM, 4:00 AM...

//

211 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:53:57pm

re: #206 Jadespring

Is a Liberal-NewDemocratic Coalition likely? Thanks for providing an insight into Canada's politics.

212 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:55:09pm

re: #210 Gus 802

Newt Gingrich takes that 3 AM call.

And 3:15 AM, 3:30 AM, 3:45 AM, 4:00 AM...

//


He'd call Obama, ask him what he'd do, and then do the opposite.

213 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:55:21pm

re: #205 reine.de.tout

That holds true for local elections, a category in which I include House of Representatives (especially in non-presidential election years) as well as judges, city councils and the like.
For presidential elections, IIRC studies have shown that they turn on the middle, independent vote. A few percentage point shift in one direction or the other by independents and moderates has often been the difference between a Dem or Rep getting elected president. However, because of the general apathy of the middle, they are rarely energized for primaries (except for those who vote as a matter of course), which leaves the primaries to the radical "base" within each party. That's how the Dems wound up with Mondale in '84 and Dukakis in '88, and the Reps wound up with Dole in '96. When the resuting candidate, such as the aforementioned, is someone who is unable to navigate the charge back to the middle, the other party wins the general election almost by default.
I think that is why, in part, the "front-runners" for the Rep nomination all seem to be tripping over each other to appeal to the radical right wing of the party. Certainly the general success of Tea Party candidates in 2010 (and, yes, some of the crazier ones lost) will be taken by unimaginative campaign managers as almost requiring them to do so.

214 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:55:47pm

re: #210 Gus 802

Newt was married to the idea, and well, you know how that goes with Newt.

215 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:56:06pm

re: #211 ProLifeLiberal

Is a Liberal-NewDemocratic Coalition likely? Thanks for providing an insight into Canada's politics.

No it's not likely at all right now. All the parties will go it on their own for the election.

216 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:57:34pm

re: #207 reine.de.tout

Oh, no.
Seagall has been a reserve sheriff's deputy in Jefferson Parish, La, for many years, and there was a reality show based around it. He's mostly all about Seagall. Not a person I would want in office, that's for sure.

My bad, I left off the sarc tag thinking it was obvious. Personally, I wouldn't want many of the idiots and panderers (not to mention philanderers) who are in office to be there, but then again we have a Senate precisely because founding fathers considered that people like him would be elected by the masses to the House of Representatives.

217 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:58:09pm

re: #215 Jadespring

What about after the election? Looking at polling, it is unlikely the Liberals will be strong enough outright.

218 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:59:29pm

This might be interesting. The USS Bataan is underway to Libyan waters. That's an amphibious assault ship. No word on the specific mission.

219 Jaerik  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:59:38pm

Stick the landing, Newt! Stick the landing!

...er, no, sorry. That just makes me imagine Newt in a leotard.

220 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:00:26pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

He'd call Obama, ask him what he'd do, and then do the opposite.

"Hello Barack? Yeah. Should I get that Chevy or keep the old Jaguar?"

//

221 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:01:07pm

re: #219 Jaerik
::: running for the brain bleach :::

222 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:02:37pm

re: #217 ProLifeLiberal

What about after the election? Looking at polling, it is unlikely the Liberals will be strong enough outright.

If it's a minority situation with the Liberals at the helm then the NDP is more likely to vote with the Liberals then the Cons in terms of confidence votes, same with the Bloc but I doubt that their would be any sort of 'officially' stated coalition.

223 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:03:26pm

OK then. Send in air cavalry support once we attain complete air superiority. That doesn't have to count as "boots on the ground" if you only employ air attack methods.

224 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:04:05pm

Phone-cam footage of citizen soldiers attacking a tank: Benghazi

Liveleak Video

More Libyan rebels in action. Yes, it appears they are "attacking" the tank while standing in the open, yelling "allahu Ackbar" and firing small arms. The tanks actually run one of them over at one point. One guy fires an RPG at pretty close range (maybe 30-40 yards) and misses. These guys are going to need a lot of help.

225 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:06:54pm

re: #223 Gus 802

OK then. Send in air cavalry support once we attain complete air superiority. That doesn't have to count as "boots on the ground" if you only employ air attack methods.

Or we can go one further and issue all the troops high top sneakers, we can totally say that we don't have any boots on the ground.
/

226 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:07:52pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

To be fair, the only way I could se these guys handling a tank is somehow shooting and RPG down the barrel. The are up a road against those things.

227 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:07:59pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Phone-cam footage of citizen soldiers attacking a tank: Benghazi

[Video]More Libyan rebels in action. Yes, it appears they are "attacking" the tank while standing in the open, yelling "allahu Ackbar" and firing small arms. The tanks actually run one of them over at one point. One guy fires an RPG at pretty close range (maybe 30-40 yards) and misses. These guys are going to need a lot of help.

Weird. Does that tank operator know how to drive a tank?

228 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:09:33pm

re: #218 Gus 802

I think they're putting it out there to provide helicopter support. The thing is loaded with them.

229 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:10:20pm

re: #228 ProLifeLiberal

I think they're putting it out there to provide helicopter support. The thing is loaded with them.

That's what I suspect. It can also be used, obviously, for amphibious landings/assault.

230 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:11:25pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Phone-cam footage of citizen soldiers attacking a tank: Benghazi

[Video]More Libyan rebels in action. Yes, it appears they are "attacking" the tank while standing in the open, yelling "allahu Ackbar" and firing small arms. The tanks actually run one of them over at one point. One guy fires an RPG at pretty close range (maybe 30-40 yards) and misses. These guys are going to need a lot of help.

From a purely technical viewpoint, that video is saddening on a few levels.

231 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:11:41pm

Longbow, AC-130, Cobras.

232 Kragar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:13:43pm

re: #226 ProLifeLiberal

To be fair, the only way I could se these guys handling a tank is somehow shooting and RPG down the barrel. The are up a road against those things.

Treads, rear shots or get some elevation and fire down into the engine.

They should have opened up with some automatic weapons or molotov cocktails first to get the crew to button up and limit their field of vision.

On the tank's side, what kind of moron commits armor to urban terrain without infantry support?

233 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:14:10pm

Whistling...

Camp Lejeune Marines To Libya

ONSLOW COUNTY -- We've seen Camp Lejuene Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan and now they are joining the fight against Libya.

About 2,200 Marines from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit will take part in support operations based aboard USS Kearsarge at sea. Those support operations have thus far included air strikes and one rescue operation. The overall mission is to help end the violence directed at the Libyan people.

"In Libya right now they are doing exactly what we need them to do. They are doing what they are told and right now that's protecting Libyan people against Qadhafi forces," said Captain Timothy Patrick, a Marine with the 26th MEU...

Hmmm.

234 researchok  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:17:27pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Whistling...

Camp Lejeune Marines To Libya

Hmmm.

Boots on the ground, boots on the ground...Walkin' downtown with your pants on the ground!

235 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:19:29pm

re: #233 Gus 802

My question is, what does support role mean exactly.

236 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:19:32pm

re: #233 Gus 802
"From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli..." USMC theme. Think of it as a sort of anniversary.

237 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:21:33pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

My question is, what does support role mean exactly.

I don't know. I imagine they could just disperse the 2200 Marines on the boats. But 2200 Marines in one group? I'm wondering. Could be for any known unknowns. Like I said before. I imagine that things are fluid. It would not surprise me if we end up seeing boots on the ground. For now though I'll just say we won't see boots on the ground until that time comes -- if it even happens.

238 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:22:54pm

re: #237 Gus 802

I don't know. I imagine they could just disperse the 2200 Marines on the boats. But 2200 Marines in one group? I'm wondering. Could be for any known unknowns. Like I said before. I imagine that things are fluid. It would not surprise me if we end up seeing boots on the ground. For now though I'll just say we won't see boots on the ground until that time comes -- if it even happens.

Could we drop boots from in the air?

//just the boots, no paratroopers...

239 Gus  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:23:43pm

re: #238 wrenchwench

Could we drop boots from in the air?

//just the boots, no paratroopers...

Death by a 1000 paper cuts boots?

//

240 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:24:18pm

re: #238 wrenchwench
hmm. That sounds like WKRP turkey drop.

241 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:26:33pm

re: #240 PhillyPretzel

hmm. That sounds like WKRP turkey drop.

Youtube Video

I miss that show.

242 researchok  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:26:34pm

re: #240 PhillyPretzel

hmm. That sounds like WKRP turkey drop.

Vimeo
243 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:27:39pm

re: #238 wrenchwench

Could we drop boots from in the air?

//just the boots, no paratroopers...

Or just switch the military issue boots with sandals, sneaker or clogs. Then technically there would be no "boots" on the ground.

244 darthstar  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:27:44pm

re: #240 PhillyPretzel

hmm. That sounds like WKRP turkey drop.

Honest to god, I thought those things could fly.

245 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:29:10pm

The first time I saw that "MTM" logo and heard the kitty, I laughed for about a week.

246 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:32:17pm

re: #227 Gus 802

Weird. Does that tank operator know how to drive a tank?

He's a cousin of the guy with the RPG, Akbar.

247 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:33:43pm

re: #244 darthstar

Honest to god, I thought those things could fly.

That's what Bubba said.

248 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:35:24pm

re: #241 wrenchwench
I miss that show. Me too.

249 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:38:44pm

re: #244 darthstar
That story came from Gordon Jump. He worked at a radio station that did just that.

250 ozbloke  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:39:24pm

Not sure if this has been posted.

Google funds tools to expose government attempts to censor, shut down the Internet.

In the wake of Internet blackouts in Egypt and Libya, Google has announced it is awarding at least $1 million to Georgia Tech researchers working on tools that will immediately reveal when governments are trying to shut down or censor use of the Internet.

The timing of the award announcement is coincidental – the grant process was well underway before the anti-government revolutions recently grabbed international attention – but the aim of the research would address exactly some of the issues protesters and others have had accessing the Internet and certain applications or Web sites. The Google Focused Research Award will be put to use building free Web tools designed to let Internet users, including those on smartphones and tablets, detect whether service providers are living up to service-level agreements and whether data or apps are being messed with along the way by governments or service providers.

More...

251 albusteve  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:40:19pm

re: #231 Gus 802

Longbow, AC-130, Cobras.

this fight needs a few Warthogs

252 Lidane  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 4:53:41pm

re: #168 reine.de.tout

But among many who were here at the time, I saw absolute raw, naked fear - true fear - at the election result. I was taken aback by the depth of it.

The sad thing is, that fear has only gotten worse over time because it's been exploited by Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and the other howler monkeys on the right over the past 2+ years since Obama won the election.

Some folks have tried to draw some sort of equivalence between the Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left from the previous eight years, or even the right's previous Clinton Derangement Syndrome in the 90's, but it's so far beyond that with Obama. They don't even accept the idea that he's American, much less that he's POTUS. He's some sort of "other", less than human, less than presidential, etc. It's been stunning to watch.

253 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:06:18pm

Humans Fail Advanced Technology License Renewal

busted back to neolithic revolution

Can Re-Apply In Ten Thousand Years

254 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:08:29pm

LOL, from Talking Points Memo


BREAKING: Gingrich has just taken to Facebook to try to rationalize his completely contradictory position. However, what he says is so convoluted and hard to follow that we now have four credentialed TPM news specialists reviewing the post to determine which way he's now flipping. We'll have more shortly when our team determines what he's saying.

Aw Newt, you are hopefully toast.

255 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:11:42pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea
And Shakespeare's three witches have rubbed out eye of Newt from their grimoire. //

256 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:12:57pm

re: #252 Lidane

The sad thing is, that fear has only gotten worse over time because it's been exploited by Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and the other howler monkeys on the right over the past 2+ years since Obama won the election.

Some folks have tried to draw some sort of equivalence between the Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left from the previous eight years, or even the right's previous Clinton Derangement Syndrome in the 90's, but it's so far beyond that with Obama. They don't even accept the idea that he's American, much less that he's POTUS. He's some sort of "other", less than human, less than presidential, etc. It's been stunning to watch.

Please don't call them howler monkeys. Anyone considered a regular at TalkOrigins is called a howler monkey.

257 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:13:58pm

Throughout all the shit going down, the tributes to Elizabeth Taylor have been wonderful to listen to. Bob Mondello had one on the devil (NPR) on my drive home. Excellent.

258 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:15:44pm

BreakingNews Breaking News

US soldier who pleaded guilty sentenced to 24 years in prison for murders of 3 unarmed Afghan civilians - AP

259 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:17:09pm

Elizabeth Taylor 1954

260 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:17:52pm

re: #257 Stanley Sea
Please excuse me for the advertisement. Please read this posted LGF page.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

261 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:18:31pm

re: #252 Lidane

Lidane. I updinged you because I am a man of the right: Just not That right.

262 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:18:35pm

re: #260 PhillyPretzel

Please excuse me for the advertisement. Please read this posted LGF page.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Oh thank you!

263 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:19:09pm

re: #262 Stanley Sea
You are welcome. :)

264 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:22:56pm

re: #263 PhillyPretzel

You are welcome. :)

Such a beauty. My Mom actually looked like her back in the day, well that's what my Dad and others said, the photos are pretty good proof though.

265 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:29:42pm

re: #264 Stanley Sea

Such a beauty. My Mom actually looked like her back in the day, well that's what my Dad and others said, the photos are pretty good proof though.

Our family also has a Liz related look alike. Back in the day, I used to look like her dog.

266 palomino  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:04:54pm

re: #131 sliv_the_eli

The sad reality is that many on the right suffer from ODS in the same way that many on the left suffered from BDS for the previous 8 years. For the rest of us, we can only hope that the hyper-partisanship that has affected our politics for the past decade and change will eventually give way to a saner, more moderate politics that is willing to acknowledge and accept good ideas and reject bad ideas regardless of which political party proposes them.

I share that hope. But I'm not optimistic about it...because what underlies the hyper-partisanship is a culture war that shows no signs of abating. Quite the opposite, it only appears to be getting worse as diversity in America accelerates.

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:08:22pm

re: #219 Jaerik

Stick the landing, Newt! Stick the landing!

...er, no, sorry. That just makes me imagine Newt in a leotard.

Well, tough. I've been walking around with an image of Obama in green leotards doing interpretive dance since his first SOTU.

268 palomino  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:08:58pm

re: #162 Ojoe

Well I don't have the stomach to listen to NPR & Pacifica consistently, much less to keep a log, but I would say that their support for Obama has undergone an erosion which has recently accelerated, & this Libya intervention has them almost calling Obama a warmonger.

You're seriously lumping NPR in with Pacifica. NPR is bland and, though it leans left, is not filled with ideological screeds. Equating the two is like equating Hillary Clinton with Dennis Kucinich.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:09:18pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Phone-cam footage of citizen soldiers attacking a tank: Benghazi

[Video]More Libyan rebels in action. Yes, it appears they are "attacking" the tank while standing in the open, yelling "allahu Ackbar" and firing small arms. The tanks actually run one of them over at one point. One guy fires an RPG at pretty close range (maybe 30-40 yards) and misses. These guys are going to need a lot of help.

Von Steuben, where are you?

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:11:03pm

re: #236 PhillyPretzel

"From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli..." USMC theme. Think of it as a sort of anniversary.

I keep wondering if the Tea Party caused this, in some sort of weird, karmic way. They went around talking about the Founders, and wearing those tricorn hats, and somehow, here we are, taking on the Barbary pirates again.


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