Jon Kyl: ‘It Wasn’t Me, It Was My Press Person’

‘Not intended to be a factual statement’ blamed on underling
Humor • Views: 32,689

Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-AZ) is now admitting he “misspoke” when he said 90% of Planned Parenthood’s services were abortion-related.

And his hilarious “not intended to be factual” excuse is being blamed on an unnamed “press person.”

Asked if he regretted the flap, Kyl said Thursday: “I misspoke when I said what I said on the floor – and I said so.”

But what about the claim that it was “not intended to be a factual statement” when Kyl said 90 percent of Planned Parenthood’s services were abortion related?

“That was not me - that was my press person,” he said.

Stephen Colbert can take some credit for embarrassing Kyl into this walk-back.

Video

Jump to bottom

637 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:11:08pm

He's a jerk. #Intended to be a factual statement.#

2 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:11:09pm

So... it was intended to be a factual statement?

3 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:11:11pm

The buck stops at the anonymous press person.

4 darthstar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:14:11pm

You didn't "misspeak," fucker...you lied.

5 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:15:31pm

re: #2 Obdicut

So... it was intended to be a factual statement?

He probably realized that being seen as an idiot worked better than being seen as a someone who would tell an obvious and massive lie, then shrug it off the next day. The mistake was admitting it wasn't true to start with.

6 The Yankee  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:15:53pm

I wish there was a way to make fact more important again. It would be nice to make any congress person or senator have to admit on the floor that they error when ever they write something or say something factually wrong on TV. Or they wouldn't be allowed to vote on the bill related to the issue.

I think we would have a lot of silent congressmen after that.

7 darthstar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:16:09pm

Well, we now know what Kyl's threshold for being universally mocked for being caught in a lie and then admitting it was intentional is...about 24 hours. You would have been better off just ignoring the insults for another day or two, Kyl...after the weekend, it would have been a distant memory.

8 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:17:50pm

Go get him, Mr. Colbert.

9 Lidane  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:18:22pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The buck stops at the anonymous press person.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! BOOTSTRAPS!

Well, except when it comes to your own lies and idiocy. =P

10 The Yankee  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:18:28pm

re: #7 darthstar

Well, we now know what Kyl's threshold for being universally mocked for being caught in a lie and then admitting it was intentional is...about 24 hours. You would have been better off just ignoring the insults for another day or two, Kyl...after the weekend, it would have been a distant memory.

My question is why did he even bother, he can be almost positive he is going to be re-elected. I got a feeling that few people in AZ care about Plan Parenting.

11 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:18:54pm

It might indeed have been Andrew Wilder. After all, if you go read you'll see that the news agencies reported it was "his office" that responded this way.

Except it is five days later, and we still don't have an explanation for why Kyl was saying 90%. For that matter, all we're getting is blame for who actually said "not intended as a factual statement." As near as I can tell neither Kyl nor his staff is saying that wasn't the right explanation.

12 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:19:09pm

Kyl's falsehood was entered into the Congressional Record.

13 Lidane  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:19:55pm

re: #8 prairiefire

Go get him, Mr. Colbert.

Stephen Colbert is awesome. John Kyl? Not so much.

#IntendedToBeAFactualStatement.

14 The Yankee  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:20:55pm

re: #4 darthstar

You didn't "misspeak," fucker...you lied.

Where is was Joe Wilson at when Kyl was on the floor?

15 darthstar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:21:00pm

re: #10 The Yankee

My question is why did he even bother, he can be almost positive he is going to be re-elected. I got a feeling that few people in AZ care about Plan Parenting.

He's retiring. This is what he'll be remembered for. Maybe that's why he's got his panties in a twist.

16 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:22:49pm

re: #13 Lidane

Stephen Colbert is awesome.

He sure is.

Youtube Video
17 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:23:39pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He sure is.

[Video]

40 seconds?

I see you and raise you 4 minutes!

Youtube Video
18 darthstar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:25:40pm

Speaking of Kyl, a judge ruled in favor of boobies in a case where two girls were suspended for wearing "I [heart] boobies" bracelets on breast-cancer awareness day.

Yay, boobies!
Image: IMG_0081.jpg

19 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:25:57pm

re: #17 jamesfirecat

40 seconds?

I see you and raise you 4 minutes!

[Video]

4:55!

Youtube Video
20 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:27:35pm

re: #18 darthstar

Speaking of Kyl, a judge ruled in favor of boobies in a case where two girls were suspended for wearing "I [heart] boobies" bracelets on breast-cancer awareness day.

Yay, boobies!
Image: IMG_0081.jpg

Two cheers for boobies.

21 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:37:48pm

and this idiot is a senator! The stupidity in the GOP has passed the point of frustration to me, and now I just shrug and watch the fun like it's a baseball game, they're like children in suits

22 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:38:17pm

re: #18 darthstar

Yay Easton! (My hometown)

23 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:38:45pm

Maddow's talking about anti-abortion laws going through the states.

24 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:41:04pm

re: #21 WindUpBird

and this idiot is a senator! The stupidity in the GOP has passed the point of frustration to me, and now I just shrug and watch the fun like it's a baseball game, they're like children in suits

It is frustrating that the wingnuts still aren't waking up. At this point they know they have a problem but they can't quite figure out what it is.

25 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:41:54pm

re: #4 darthstar

You didn't "misspeak," fucker...you lied.

if only I could be surprised at this stuff anymore :(

What a pain it must be to be smart and in Arizona, and just outnumbered by...that. Wow. I know three people from Arizona. One stayed because he's making a ton of money in IT atm, but hates Arizona worse than poison. The other two got out and are never living there again. All three are brilliant.

26 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:42:31pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

It is frustrating that the wingnuts still aren't waking up. At this point they know they have a problem but they can't quite figure out what it is.

They need to get back together with factual statements. Then we can talk.

27 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:43:42pm

re: #23 JasonA

Maddow's talking about anti-abortion laws going through the states.

Maybe all this will drive more smart people will move to the west coast, where we don't treat women like brood mares

28 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:44:23pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout


Unfortunately, the wingnuts i know think the problem is the world isn't right wing enough yet. The 2012 election should be interesting.

29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:44:52pm

re: #26 JasonA

They need to get back together with factual statements. Then we can talk.

the GOP need to remove a lot of the cancer in their party and destroy their careers for facts to even have a chance

30 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:45:04pm

re: #28 Cankles McCellulite

Unfortunately, the wingnuts i know think the problem is the world isn't right wing enough yet. The 2012 election should be interesting.

I'm looking forward to culturejamming it

31 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:45:24pm

re: #27 WindUpBird

Maybe all this will drive more smart people will move to the west coast, where we don't treat women like brood mares

Or they could come up here to the east coast, where we have seasons...

32 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:45:30pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

TMI!

33 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:51:03pm

re: #31 JasonA

Or they could come up here to the east coast, where we have seasons...

The last thing I want in my life is seasons. I like predictability and rain :D but yes, for those of us who don't grow moss and like sunshine, I wouldn't recommend Portland.

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:51:11pm

re: #32 Cankles McCellulite

TMI!

huh?

35 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:52:47pm

re: #33 WindUpBird

The last thing I want in my life is seasons. I like predictability and rain :D but yes, for those of us who don't grow moss and like sunshine, I wouldn't recommend Portland.

It's another miserable cold, wet and dark spring here. I'm trying to not obsess about it but I really can't take a repeat of last year. This is absurd.

36 JoyousMN  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:53:31pm

God, Colbert has been on an absolute tear with his #NotIntendedToBeAFactuctualStatement tweets. They are really funny and the BEST way to punish a buffoonish politician like Kyl. See Santorum.

37 Petero1818  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:53:45pm

Would you not think that such a statement should include an apology to the senate, the people of the United States and perhaps most importantly Planned Parenthood, who he publicly and maliciously maligned?

38 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:53:52pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

It's another miserable cold, wet and dark spring here. I'm trying to not obsess about it but I really can't take a repeat of last year. This is absurd.

Same here in eastern PA. Except today. Today was sunny and beautiful. But it was drizzling and hazy for a month straight before that.

39 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:55:52pm

LOL. Just a little ole' culturejamming-masturbation pun.

40 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:56:38pm

re: #34 WindUpBird
)00ps. *see above

41 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:57:15pm

re: #40 Cankles McCellulite

)00ps. *see above

Just blame your "press person."

42 Nevertires  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 6:58:09pm

re: #33 WindUpBird

I miss the West Coast. I spent 15-odd years in Vancouver and now live in the centre of my country. I miss the 20 different types of rain, the ocean, the mountains and especially the open-mindedness of people on the Coast.

Made it down to Portland once - and Seattle many times and found the West Coast cities all shared some ideology - though I know that is the wrong word to use.

43 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:03:50pm

re: #42 Nevertires

I miss the West Coast. I spent 15-odd years in Vancouver and now live in the centre of my country. I miss the 20 different types of rain, the ocean, the mountains and especially the open-mindedness of people on the Coast.

Made it down to Portland once - and Seattle many times and found the West Coast cities all shared some ideology - though I know that is the wrong word to use.

BC vanocuver, or our Vancouver? :D

They don't so much share an ideology as they share culture and lifestyle. Which I guess can include ideology. but yeah, from Vancouver BC to the bay, it's sort of familiar culture to me

44 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:04:50pm

re: #39 Cankles McCellulite

LOL. Just a little ole' culturejamming-masturbation pun.

oh hah :D I thought you were like "DON'T TELL EVERYONE YOUR PLANS, FOOL!" ^_^

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:06:16pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

It's another miserable cold, wet and dark spring here. I'm trying to not obsess about it but I really can't take a repeat of last year. This is absurd.

:( I like this weather, but I know a lot of it is brain chemistry, circadian rhythms, vitamin D, seasonal affective disorder, it's brain wiring whether someone likes the gloom or not

For me there's nothing better than a deserted portland late at night in the pouring rain

46 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:09:07pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

I love the rain now. I use to hate cloudy, rainy days, but now that i have lived in central Texas for several years, i like a break from all the damn sunshine. I couldn't wait to leave Alaska because of the long, dark, cold winters, now i crave snow!

47 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:10:50pm

Navy successfully tests prototype ocean-going laser weapon
PEWPEWPEW

48 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:12:33pm

re: #46 Cankles McCellulite

I love the rain now. I use to hate cloudy, rainy days, but now that i have lived in central Texas for several years, i like a break from all the damn sunshine. I couldn't wait to leave Alaska because of the long, dark, cold winters, now i crave snow!

I used to like snow more when i didn't have drive in it :D If I'm at home, awesome!

49 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:14:20pm

re: #48 WindUpBird

I used to like snow more when i didn't have drive in it :D If I'm at home, awesome!

The snow sucks no matter what.
Since I have to shovel it.

50 Nevertires  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:14:46pm

re: #43 WindUpBird

BC.

Yes - culture and lifestyle is a better description. Though - throughout the interior of both our countries there are strange pockets of enlightened, tolerant and eccentric people and I am starting to find those.

Something about the rain on the Coast - never got me down. Made everything clear, clean and vibrant.

And from BC down to California - food, beer, coffee, music, diversity... good times!

Apologies to all for the sustained OT. In regards to the post - my bullshit tolerance from politicians is just way maxed out. We are mid-election here in Canada and there is a definite lack of statesmen/women here.

51 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:16:25pm
Asked if he regretted the flap, Kyl said Thursday: “I misspoke when I said what I said on the floor – and I said so.”

But what about the claim that it was “not intended to be a factual statement” when Kyl said 90 percent of Planned Parenthood’s services were abortion related?

“That was not me - that was my press person,” he said.


He later clarified, "My previous statements regarding my press person were not meant to be factual."

52 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:18:13pm

TIME to let our Congress Critters know many many of us rely on contraception. Both MEN and WOMEN. (and men who rely on their women-:)

Remind them also that they are not religious leaders, moral leaders or tyrants. They are ELECTED officials who can be FIRED.

You know where to go: [Link: www.plannedparenthood.org...]

53 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:18:58pm

Hurray! I just configured my new laptop!
/Like I need another laptop..but it's fast!

54 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:27:47pm

re: #50 Nevertires

*waving from the center of the USA*

55 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:28:39pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

It is frustrating that the wingnuts still aren't waking up. At this point they know they have a problem but they can't quite figure out what it is.

It's pretty simple.

"Leave Planned Parenthood alone or Obama will win in 2012"

56 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:28:47pm

Paged something earlier that may also have contributed to Kyl's beyond-lame walkback:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yet another reason I heart Kirsten Gillibrand :)

57 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:30:50pm

lol

[Link: www.theatlasphere.com...]

58 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:36:15pm

re: #56 publicityStunted

Paged something earlier that may also have contributed to Kyl's beyond-lame walkback:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yet another reason I heart Kirsten Gillibrand :)

I also love Ms Schultz. I think she will do a fantastic job leading the DNC.

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:36:48pm

The Whacko Republican's need to realize they are singing to the Chorus and that the chorus is a small percentage of the congregation.

60 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:40:50pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

:( I like this weather, but I know a lot of it is brain chemistry, circadian rhythms, vitamin D, seasonal affective disorder, it's brain wiring whether someone likes the gloom or not

For me there's nothing better than a deserted portland late at night in the pouring rain

It used to not bother me. I used to love the dark morose gloom and quiet that goes along with our rainy weather. Direct sunlight used to cause me physical pain. Maybe last year broke me or maybe I've changed.

61 Nevertires  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:44:11pm

re: #56 publicityStunted

Smart women - can't get enough.

What a juxtaposition between her forceful, factual comments and idiocy like "misspoke" and "not intended as a factual statement".

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:44:15pm

Why don't we buy Ron Paul's house?

63 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:44:27pm

re: #47 Varek Raith

Navy successfully tests prototype ocean-going laser weapon
PEWPEWPEW

Link to video:

Youtube Video
64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:47:12pm

My income tax check hit the bank today.

You. Are. Welcome.

I feel like China. Lent you guys my money, got nuthin' for it.
/

65 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:47:25pm

re: #58 prairiefire

I also love Ms Schultz. I think she will do a fantastic job leading the DNC.

Debbie's fabulous. Thank goodness we have some good liberals left in Florida. Bill Nelson's another.

66 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:49:16pm

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why don't we buy Ron Paul's house?

Seems pretty modest, actually.

67 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:51:42pm

This is a day old, but I'm so fucking pissed at the evil (yes, this is evil) propaganda that is Fox news

Fox News bizarrely connects student's suicide to Obama's speech

"As of this writing, Fox has not been able to obtain reaction from the White House.”

REALLY? REALLY?

THEY NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO THIS KIDS FAMILY STAT.

Absolutely evil. (h/t LVQ, I'm getting there, this one has sent me over the edge)

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:51:47pm

re: #66 JasonA

Must be sinking all his $ in gold.

69 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:52:17pm

re: #52 ggt

TIME to let our Congress Critters know many many of us rely on contraception. Both MEN and WOMEN. (and men who rely on their women-:)

Remind them also that they are not religious leaders, moral leaders or tyrants. They are ELECTED officials who can be FIRED.

You know where to go: [Link: www.plannedparenthood.org...]

Here ya go

[Link: writerep.house.gov...]

70 Nevertires  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:54:29pm

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Funny that it wasn't listed in troy ounces!

71 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:54:57pm

re: #66 JasonA

Seems pretty modest, actually.

Well, except for the SIZE - 5500 sq feet is a large house.
But I actually thought the same thing - seems like a fairly modest home, all things considered.

72 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:55:36pm

re: #66 JasonA

Seems pretty modest, actually.

Agreed, it does.

73 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:57:11pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

Well, except for the SIZE - 5500 sq feet is a large house.
But I actually thought the same thing - seems like a fairly modest home, all things considered.

I agree about the modesty. Although a house that size (with the pool) would probably fetch closer to $1M here even in a bad economy.

74 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:57:51pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

Well, except for the SIZE - 5500 sq feet is a large house.
But I actually thought the same thing - seems like a fairly modest home, all things considered.

I dunno, doesn't seem that big to me. Especially with that price tag, for a 4br? Maybe I'm just way too used to Westchester prices...

75 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:58:47pm

re: #73 marjoriemoon

I agree about the modesty. Although a house that size (with the pool) would probably fetch closer to $1M here even in a bad economy.

I notice they carefully did not show much of the actual house. I suspect it's a pretty mundane ranch-style house and I would be willing to bet it started off as a much smaller home and they've added to it.

76 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:59:04pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

Well, except for the SIZE - 5500 sq feet is a large house.
But I actually thought the same thing - seems like a fairly modest home, all things considered.

You can't buy a broken down 2bd crack house for 350k in some areas of California

77 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:59:13pm

This just in: Texas Representative Ron Paul puts house on the market. Makes new home in Galt's Gulch. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement

78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:59:53pm

re: #66 JasonA

(maybe it's the house he want's us to know about)

79 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:01:24pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

You can't buy a broken down 2bd crack house for 350k in some areas of California

My house is a very modest 1600 sq feet on a half-acre lot. When my brother was living in CA and came to visit once, he told me what he would have to pay for a similar home there, and my jaw just dropped. I couldn't believe it.

80 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:01:38pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

You can't buy a broken down 2bd crack house for 350k in some areas of California


Check out what you can get in detroit. Some amazing shit.

81 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:02:34pm

re: #66 JasonA

Seems pretty modest, actually.

It's downright plebeian, especially when compared to the structures in which the politicians live, scattered around the outskirts of DC.

82 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:02:37pm

re: #75 reine.de.tout

I notice they carefully did not show much of the actual house. I suspect it's a pretty mundane ranch-style house and I would be willing to bet it started off as a much smaller home and they've added to it.

Could be. Actually, my estimate was low. I just checked realtor.com (for kicks) and square footage alone, $1M is small. But it's not fair to compare areas. Things can be vastly different from city to city.

83 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:04:00pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

You can't buy a broken down 2bd crack house for 350k in some areas of California

No kidding. A house like the Pauls' here in San Diego, if inland, would go for twice that amount, and if near the ocean like on Point Loma you'd have to add a "1" to the front of that figure.

84 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:04:41pm

This [Paul Ryan's] plan is so far right, I wouldn't f*** it with Barry Goldwater's d**k.

Jon Stewart "Paraphrasing" Obama

85 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:04:54pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Holy hell, are those cheap. I pray the Detroit will recover.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:05:23pm

re: #78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why do I accidentally use apostrophes on esses?

87 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:05:51pm

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why don't we buy Ron Paul's house?

I paid the same amount for our house here on LI. You could fit six of my house inside that house and have room left over.

88 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:06:16pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Apostrophitis.

Common malady, cured only by shock therapy.

89 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:07:04pm

re: #83 freetoken

No kidding. A house like the Pauls' here in San Diego, if inland, would go for twice that amount, and if near the ocean like on Point Loma you'd have to add a "1" to the front of that figure.

True dat..Imagine a home like that in Napa Valley..Of course my folks back in the 50's bought their home in Yountville for 17,500.. Sick

90 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:07:24pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

Holy hell, are those cheap. I pray the Detroit will recover.

$5000
It's pretty amazing

91 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:09:31pm

1,500

92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:09:49pm

re: #88 freetoken

Apostrophitis.

Common malady, cured only by shock therapy.

Then? I shall continue.

93 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:09:56pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

$5000
It's pretty amazing

Damn.
Detroit is not doing well AT ALL.
I would think, however, that this sort of thing would also present some opportunity . . .

94 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:11:49pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

Yeah. And also, I remember the Chrysler Commercial from earlier this year. I honestly think that Detroit will survive and be better than ever at the end of this. Rust Belters are just better that way.

I a Rust Belt-South parable to tell if anyone wants to here it.

95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:12:14pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

What would be cool?

Them: "We have some great financing opportunities."
Me: "Could I just write you a check?"

96 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:13:16pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

Damn.
Detroit is not doing well AT ALL.
I would think, however, that this sort of thing would also present some opportunity . . .

21,000

I have to admit I've though about moving to Detroit. You could live like a king.

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:16:23pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I get the joke. It's a Tudor...

98 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:16:54pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

21,000

I have to admit I've though about moving to Detroit. You could live like a king.

Detroit? Hmmm. There's a reason those houses are dirt cheap.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:17:44pm

As I look at those properties, it is kind of funny.

But then I think about the owners of those properties. They are probably suffering beyond my comprehension.

100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:20:54pm

re: #94 ProLifeLiberal

You gotta keep praying for Chinese Baby Bottle Nipples dipped in lead.

101 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:22:09pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As I look at those properties, it is kind of funny.

But then I think about the owners of those properties. They are probably suffering beyond my comprehension.

Yes.
For the ones that have photos, notice how much fixin' up those houses need. One would need to be in pretty bad shape to let your home go that way.

102 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:22:54pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

21,000

I have to admit I've though about moving to Detroit. You could live like a king.

If your employment is not dependent on somebody else - it would be something worth thinking about, for sure.

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:22:58pm

re: #12 Charles

Kyl's falsehood was entered into the Congressional Record.

If being entered into the Congressional Record means anything, this country is in trouble.

In fact, if Aliens ever land, I hope they accidentally set their spaceship down on the part of the Library of Congress that houses it, just so that they never learn just how silly it got.

104 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:26:09pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As I look at those properties, it is kind of funny.

But then I think about the owners of those properties. They are probably suffering beyond my comprehension.

Of course, considering their homes are valued at about 1% of what they're worth.

Detroit is the worst economic disaster in the country.

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

That was written in 2008, probably from the 2000 census, but I don't think it's much better today.

105 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:27:15pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I get the joke. It's a Tudor...

Damn. I missed it completely

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:27:42pm

re: #104 marjoriemoon

The Wellington Pub (21 mile?) was a fun bar though.

Wild Woodys in Rosemont was cool too.

107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:28:18pm

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or is that Roseville?

108 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:28:27pm

re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pittsburgh is doing fine now. Detroit can follow in its footsteps (One parent from one, one from the other).

109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:28:47pm

re: #105 reine.de.tout

You think I was right? I was guessing.

110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:29:41pm

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Owner's name was Lee. From the Ukraine.

He was very nice.

111 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:30:13pm

re: #109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You think I was right? I was guessing.

heh.
I dunno.
I assumed you were.

112 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:31:07pm

re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's a pity shame.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The burst of creativity is partly a function of desperation. For the sixth decade in a row, this year’s census will bring bad news: the population, already sparsely distributed over a vast 139 square miles, has declined again, to an estimated 790,000 residents, down from 951,000 people in 2000 and a high of almost 2 million in 1950. Population loss was hastened in the last few years, experts said, by the twin blows of the foreclosure crisis and jobs lost to the recession.

Detroit has already struggled through 55,000 foreclosures since 2005 and is expecting another wave to hit soon as temporary moratoriums, meant to stabilize the nation’s housing markets, are lifted. That will mean even more vacancy, emptiness and blight.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:32:50pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I get the joke. It's a Tudor...


re: #105 reine.de.tout


Killgore dinged me! I must've been right!

114 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:32:51pm

Alright, time for my "beauty" sleep. I've been wondering for fifty-something years now exactly when this "beauty sleep" stuff is supposed to start working. But I'm not going to give up on it now . . .

Have a good evening!

115 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:34:00pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

Alright, time for my "beauty" sleep. I've been wondering for fifty-something years now exactly when this "beauty sleep" stuff is supposed to start working. But I'm not going to give up on it now . . .

Have a good evening!

I've seen your picture... you're already a beautiful person.

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:35:09pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

So sad.

The television show "Life After People" used Detroit as an example of what happens to man-made shit after the people disappear.

I'm sure the Detroit "Chamber of Commerce" would have preferred that they used the Mayan civilization.

117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:35:36pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

I've seen your picture... you're already a beautiful person.

Damn straight!

118 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:35:49pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

I've seen your picture... you're already a beautiful person.

*blush*
Thanks, Walter.
Now, really, g'night all.

119 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:37:02pm

Speaking of properties: My idiot yuppie neighbor is asking for a survey of the property line because he found an image on the internet that he thinks will allow him to confiscate about 1,000 square feet of my property. I'm trying real hard to view him as stupid and greedy but a victim of his own human nature for greed. I'm going to try very hard to be gracious when the survey shows him what I've already told him about the property line.

120 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:38:56pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Speaking of properties: My idiot yuppie neighbor is asking for a survey of the property line because he found an image on the internet that he thinks will allow him to confiscate about 1,000 square feet of my property. I'm trying real hard to view him as stupid and greedy but a victim of his own human nature for greed. I'm going to try very hard to be gracious when the survey shows him what I've already told him about the property line.

Ooof. I have a neighbor with property-line-obsession. We were forced to put up a fence and that was a struggle, but it's done.

121 Querent  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:38:56pm

:: hyena laugh, reminiscent of Scary Evil Monkey on IMAO... ::

what a loser!

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:40:42pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Just wait until he orders another survey. I've been trying to figure out how to give some of my property to my neighbor who "fence-locked" about a thousand square feet of mine with a stupid fence. Now our fences are two feet apart from each other at one end and fifteen feet apart at the other.

That fucker'd better mow it. I can't get my mower into it.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:41:37pm

G'night knuckleheads!

124 Big Joe  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:43:30pm

He should have just said, "It's not true? I heard it on the radio."

125 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:44:51pm

I love it... Qwest (our local baby bell telephone company)... a rather large company, who was just bought out by some other baby bell from Dallas... well, as far as I know, that new company is suppose to be the owners now, and I try to go online to pay my bill (internet, phone and satellite)... and the server can't be found... like hey, this is not a local mom and pop... it's like a major big company... unbelievable... not a good start to a new ownership...

126 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:46:44pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just wait until he orders another survey. I've been trying to figure out how to give some of my property to my neighbor who "fence-locked" about a thousand square feet of mine with a stupid fence. Now our fences are two feet apart from each other at one end and fifteen feet apart at the other.

That fucker'd better mow it. I can't get my mower into it.

We got a copy of the survey from city hall almost as soon as we moved in because my neighbor started obsessing. It went on for about 7 years. She finally erected this delineation type thing - sticks running down the property line with a line of twine joining them. I tripped over it walking the dog and chucked the whole mess into the trash. Then it was pretty much ON as far as she was concerned. When she called the cops, nothing could be done because we had the survey. They made us measure the distance from the house. The fence was ok'd by the city so she can't do anything now.

For awhile before, though, you couldn't put a fence ON the property line. It had to be 6" into your property, but they changed that.

127 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:47:16pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

The Earth is replete with abandoned human locations - villages, towns, even great cities.

Out here in the West there are all sorts of abandoned locations, especially mining locales.

Detroit is in a strategic location, at the juncture of two Great Lakes, a system of fresh water bodies unrivaled on the planet. I suspect there will be towns/cities built at that location for millennia, sort of like Megiddo.

128 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:47:33pm

re: #69 marjoriemoon

Here ya go

[Link: writerep.house.gov...]

Done and posted link on Facebook as well!

129 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:47:54pm

Oh, and she got a free fence (sigh).

130 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:48:36pm

re: #127 freetoken

The Earth is replete with abandoned human locations - villages, towns, even great cities.

Out here in the West there are all sorts of abandoned locations, especially mining locales.

Detroit is in a strategic location, at the juncture of two Great Lakes, a system of fresh water bodies unrivaled on the planet. I suspect there will be towns/cities built at that location for millennia, sort of like Megiddo.

hehe great analogy!

131 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:48:43pm

It's been a while since I've seen a bonafide triple down like Kyl has done.

132 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:48:46pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

Ooof. I have a neighbor with property-line-obsession. We were forced to put up a fence and that was a struggle, but it's done.

I'm hoping that this will end it. He's been pushing the property line a few inches every year because he's convinced himself it's his property. I try not to be upright about these things and I'm not happy about having to pay for the survey but I'm hoping this will put the matter to rest. I find my fellow humans tiresome at times but I'm trying real hard.

133 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:49:26pm

re: #129 marjoriemoon

Oh, and she got a free fence (sigh).

We put up fences in the back and front, using the neighbors' sides. heh

134 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:50:33pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

I'm hoping that this will end it. He's been pushing the property line a few inches every year because he's convinced himself it's his property. I try not to be upright about these things and I'm not happy about having to pay for the survey but I'm hoping this will put the matter to rest. I find my fellow humans tiresome at times but I'm trying real hard.

Make sure you get a copy. But why do you have to pay for one? Your city hall should have a copy when you bought house. You may have to pay to copy it, but that's it. You should check first.

135 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:50:35pm

re: #133 prairiefire

We put up fences in the back and front, using the neighbors' sides. heh

We don't have too many fences up here... lots too big, no real need to fence anything in... and we got guns.

136 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:51:19pm

re: #131 BigPapa

It's been a while since I've seen a bonafide triple down like Kyl has done.

He is lying slime.

137 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:51:26pm

re: #133 prairiefire

We put up fences in the back and front, using the neighbors' sides. heh

Indeed, our neighbors behind put up a fence. But this woman has issues...

138 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:52:23pm

re: #137 marjoriemoon

Indeed, our neighbors behind put up a fence. But this woman has issues...

I like fences, they keep my dogs in and other's dogs out.

139 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:53:09pm

re: #135 Walter L. Newton

We don't have too many fences up here... lots too big, no real need to fence anything in... and we got guns.

Miami is the town of zero lot lines. Depends on where you live. We have a huge yard by our standards 100 x 75 feet and about 20-25 feet from house to house. Big city livin and all that.

140 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:53:26pm

re: #134 marjoriemoon

Make sure you get a copy. But why do you have to pay for one? Your city hall should have a copy when you bought house. You may have to pay to copy it, but that's it. You should check first.

I checked but the city just left me a voice message telling me how to measure the lot line from the sidewalk. the Neighbor doesn't believe me and demanded the survey.

141 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:54:07pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Pain in the ass yuppie neighbor.

142 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:54:26pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

I checked but the city just left me a voice message telling me how to measure the lot line from the sidewalk. the Neighbor doesn't believe me and demanded the survey.

You should go down there. For real. They have to have it on file. The person was blowing you off. You have to show him all legal-like.

143 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:55:48pm

A Bronx Tale - 20 Bucks

Youtube Video

Namaste, Y'all
144 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:56:27pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

I checked but the city just left me a voice message telling me how to measure the lot line from the sidewalk. the Neighbor doesn't believe me and demanded the survey.

Besides, if he puts up the fence, he has to have it inspected no? To pass inspection, it has to be in the right place. Here, they made some guy take the concrete out of his newly paved driveway because he paved over too much of the easement, the green space.

145 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:56:40pm

re: #142 marjoriemoon

You should go down there. For real. They have to have it on file. The person was blowing you off. You have to show him all legal-like.

Then they make you wait for an hour while they goof off. Not much to be done about asshole bureaucrats.

146 Lidane  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:56:56pm

re: #142 marjoriemoon

You should go down there. For real. They have to have it on file. The person was blowing you off. You have to show him all legal-like.

Absolutely. Get the city's survey and if you have to, get one of your own. If your idiot neighbor can't accept it, that's his problem.

147 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:57:28pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Then they make you wait for an hour while they goof off. Not much to be done about asshole bureaucrats.

Be that as it may! Survey's can cost a couple hundred bucks.

148 Lidane  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:58:02pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Then they make you wait for an hour while they goof off. Not much to be done about asshole bureaucrats.

Better to deal with an asshole bureaucrat for an hour or whatever than to keep dealing with an idiot asshole neighbor who can't take a hint.

149 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:58:49pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

I checked but the city just left me a voice message telling me how to measure the lot line from the sidewalk. the Neighbor doesn't believe me and demanded the survey.

That's weird. Your neighbor should get their own survey.

This sounds like more of a personality issue than a legal issue.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 8:59:54pm

I think my Dad had that problem with a neighbor for awhile. He figured that if they wanted to mow and seed the 2 feet (or whatever) let them. Sooner or later one of the houses would be put up for sale and that would put an end to it.

Eventually, Dad put up a fence and neighbor didn't like the results. Dad told him either the fence or our dog in their back yard.

They didn't talk much after that.

151 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:00:20pm

Yuppies! Pushy, pushy, pushy!

152 RadicalModerate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:01:23pm

Holy crap we're getting killed in a thunderstorm right now. We've had 1-3" hail pretty much continuously for the past 25 minutes of so, with 50 mph winds. I'm really, REALLY glad I've got covered parking.

153 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:02:43pm

re: #152 RadicalModerate

Our wind here in KC was quite strong. The last time we needed new roofing was an Easter storm about 5 years ago.

154 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:03:36pm

re: #151 prairiefire

Yuppies! Pushy, pushy, pushy!

Likely displacement. He goes after a neighbor to have a feeling of being powerful and in control.

155 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:04:01pm

re: #150 ggt

I think my Dad had that problem with a neighbor for awhile. He figured that if they wanted to mow and seed the 2 feet (or whatever) let them. Sooner or later one of the houses would be put up for sale and that would put an end to it.

Eventually, Dad put up a fence and neighbor didn't like the results. Dad told him either the fence or our dog in their back yard.

They didn't talk much after that.

I never had a problem like this woman. We get along fine with all the other neighbors. She'd go into a hissy fit and start screaming at me because our leaves blew in her yard. I'd give her about a week to calm down and then all would be ok. 3 months later, something else would upset her and it would start again. I'm not kidding, 7 years of that routine. Finally in 2007, the final incident with the sticks and twine and I haven't spoken to her since. We actually get along fine that way.

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:04:33pm

The wind in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland is rather blustery right now.

32 MPH according to the NOAA.

157 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:06:28pm

re: #153 prairiefire

Our wind here in KC was quite strong. The last time we needed new roofing was an Easter storm about 5 years ago.

We have 5 roofs to tear off and repair in Clovis. Just found out about the damage... it happened in June 2010 to our rent homes there, insurance company just got around to inspecting the roofs and informed us (and the property management company, who should have suspected something in June 2010) that the work needs to be done.

158 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:06:30pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

I never had a problem like this woman. We get along fine with all the other neighbors. She'd go into a hissy fit and start screaming at me because our leaves blew in her yard. I'd give her about a week to calm down and then all would be ok. 3 months later, something else would upset her and it would start again. I'm not kidding, 7 years of that routine. Finally in 2007, the final incident with the sticks and twine and I haven't spoken to her since. We actually get along fine that way.

YOUR leaves blew into her yard?

Did your exhalations end-up there too?

sounds like a candidate for meds.

159 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:06:36pm

re: #156 ggt

The wind in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland is rather blustery right now.

32 MPH according to the NOAA.

Gonna be nasty closer in too. Tomorrow will not be a fun day for us, GGT.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:07:44pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Gonna be nasty closer in too. Tomorrow will not be a fun day for us, GGT.

I'm staying home. My back is making me.

161 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:08:30pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Make sure there is no mold damage. Geeze, after the winter has passed, too. I wonder if the management co. would be liable?

162 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:08:31pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Gonna be nasty closer in too. Tomorrow will not be a fun day for us, GGT.

When we get high winds (like a few days ago)... it averages 40-80 miles per hour... when those lows start to tumble down across the divide, headed for the plains, it pulls a hell of a lot of air going east.

Then we pass it on to the midwest.

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:09:47pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

When we get high winds (like a few days ago)... it averages 40-80 miles per hour... when those lows start to tumble down across the divide, headed for the plains, it pulls a hell of a lot of air going east.

Then we pass it on to the midwest.

Thanks for that.

164 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:09:49pm

re: #160 ggt

I'm staying home. My back is making me.

Hope you fell better. Have you tried those thermal wraps? I like them, they work pretty well.
Night, lizards.

165 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:10:03pm

re: #158 ggt

YOUR leaves blew into her yard?

Did your exhalations end-up there too?

sounds like a candidate for meds.

I think that was the problem. I was noticing a pattern. Every 3-4 months, she'd go off. I think she's bipolar, manic depressive, whatever. She threatened my yard man with an chainsaw because he stepped onto her property when he was mowing. She threatened our roofer, too. It's better we don't speak :)

166 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:10:28pm

re: #164 prairiefire

Hope you fell better. Have you tried those thermal wraps? I like them, they work pretty well.
Night, lizards.

getting prolotherapy next week.

paying for it out-of-pocket

Can't live like this anymore.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:10:30pm

re: #158 ggt

YOUR leaves blew into her yard?

Did your exhalations end-up there too?

sounds like a candidate for meds.

My father was once sued (business-related) by a woman who was eventually declared a 'vexatious litigant' by the State of California. She'd sued the neighbors to both sides of her. According to her, one was burning pine needles in their fireplace and deliberately venting the smoke at her, and the other was keeping 'old sick dogs' on the premises, and spreading germs.

It was one hell of a lawsuit.

168 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:10:38pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

When we get high winds (like a few days ago)... it averages 40-80 miles per hour... when those lows start to tumble down across the divide, headed for the plains, it pulls a hell of a lot of air going east.

Then we pass it on to the midwest.

My knee hates you for that (it aches when its cold and wet).

169 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:11:24pm

re: #166 ggt

{{ggt}}

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:11:41pm

re: #165 marjoriemoon

I think that was the problem. I was noticing a pattern. Every 3-4 months, she'd go off. I think she's bipolar, manic depressive, whatever. She threatened my yard man with an chainsaw because he stepped onto her property when he was mowing. She threatened our roofer, too. It's better we don't speak :)

Worst problem we ever had with the old neighbors at my folks' place was when someone from the apartment building next door flicked a cigarette into the back yard and burned it to the ground--but other than that, folks are generally polite.

171 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:12:49pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

vexatious

Now, there is a word!

I like it.

My back is vexatious.

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:13:47pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

Worst problem we ever had with the old neighbors at my folks' place was when someone from the apartment building next door flicked a cigarette into the back yard and burned it to the ground--but other than that, folks are generally polite.

how do you burn a yard to the ground?

173 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:14:06pm

re: #172 ggt

how do you burn a yard to the ground?

I was wondering the same thing.

174 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:15:07pm

A yard with a lot of dead grass makes for some good fuel. :)

175 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:15:34pm

re: #174 PhillyPretzel

A yard with a lot of dead grass makes for some good fuel. :)

hehe didn't have a long way to go!

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:16:20pm

re: #172 ggt

how do you burn a yard to the ground?

Summer in California. The grass was bone-dry. Caught fire, and there was nothing left but ash.

My parents had lost the key to the gate into the yard, because we always just went through the back door, so the firefighters had to kick it in. It was the dog's best day EVER. He loved the entire thing.

177 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:18:43pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

Summer in California. The grass was bone-dry. Caught fire, and there was nothing left but ash.

My parents had lost the key to the gate into the yard, because we always just went through the back door, so the firefighters had to kick it in. It was the dog's best day EVER. He loved the entire thing.

Ooo lit cigs in CA can be very dangerous. Out here, it's pretty humid and wet.

178 Querent  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:19:38pm

re: #28 Cankles McCellulite

Unfortunately, the wingnuts i know think the problem is the world isn't right wing enough yet. The 2012 election should be interesting.

Quetzalcoatl in 2012 -- a Snake on a Higher Plane...

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:22:00pm

Have to go

Please don't forget or decide to do it later . . .tweet,facebook, email, call, give money, whatever you can.

I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Night all!

180 Querent  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:22:41pm

re: #47 Varek Raith

is it shark-based?

181 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:22:53pm

re: #178 Querent

Quetzalcoatl in 2012 -- a Snake on a Higher Plane...

And no David Carradine to stop it

Youtube Video
182 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:28:30pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

... who was eventually declared a 'vexatious litigant' ...

What a wonderful phrase.

Let me take this opportunity to steal it and apply it to the entire birther (nee, entire tea party) movement.

183 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:32:36pm

re: #182 freetoken

What a wonderful phrase.

Let me take this opportunity to steal it and apply it to the entire birther (nee, entire tea party) movement.

Not the Tea Party, not yet. But it surely applies against Nirthers in general and Orly Taiz in specific.

184 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:32:52pm
185 Lidane  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:36:06pm

TV On The Radio on Letterman. This rules.

186 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:37:15pm

I call bullshit. GOP politicians never feel embarrassed about the dumb or untrue shit they say. Even when proven to be factually untrue. Kyl is from a state in which the GOP passed a law saying that inspecting the penis of a male candidate for president can be done to verify citizenship. That fucker is immune to embarrassment.

187 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:39:40pm

re: #186 moderatelyradicalliberal

That's painting with a too-broad brush and tarring an entire party for one man's screwup.

188 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:40:25pm

re: #186 moderatelyradicalliberal

. Kyl is from a state in which the GOP passed a law saying that inspecting the penis of a male candidate for president can be done to verify citizenship.

??? I missed this.

189 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:41:30pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

That's painting with a too-broad brush and tarring an entire party for one man's screwup.

I can't think of any example where they have been embarrassed or humbled. Not off the top of my head, anyway.

190 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:42:55pm

re: #188 tnguitarist

??? I missed this.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:47:15pm

re: #186 moderatelyradicalliberal

I call bullshit. GOP politicians never feel embarrassed about the dumb or untrue shit they say. Even when proven to be factually untrue. Kyl is from a state in which the GOP passed a law saying that inspecting the penis of a male candidate for president can be done to verify citizenship. That fucker is immune to embarrassment.

It could be worse. They could have said that female candidates also had to have their penises inspected.

192 Gus  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:47:34pm

Cripes. I just watched the "Toemageddon" segment on the Daily Show. What the fuck is wrong with people? Almost all of the networks made a big deal about it with Fox News of course being the worst.

193 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:48:15pm

We really need a class in our high schools going over what the constitution does and doesn't allow.

194 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:48:20pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

That's painting with a too-broad brush and tarring an entire party for one man's screwup.

I wasn't blaming Kyl for for how dumb the GOP legislature is in Arizona. I just think the same kind of stupid is common in the GOP right now. If you can name a recent mea culpa by a GOP politician that said something stupid or untrue, I would actually welcome it. In the meantime if the GOP doesn't want people to think they are ducks, they should stop waddling and quacking.

195 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:49:07pm

re: #190 moderatelyradicalliberal

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Oh my, how fucking embarrassing.

196 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:49:09pm

re: #193 EmmmieG

We really need a class in our high schools going over what the constitution does and doesn't allow.

Isn't that what the Bible is for?
/

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:49:17pm

re: #193 EmmmieG

We really need a class in our high schools going over what the constitution does and doesn't allow.

Oddly enough, there actually is such a class. But people don't seem to take it very seriously after they enter public life.

198 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:50:27pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

It could be worse. They could have said that female candidates also had to have their penises inspected.

Yes, we should be grateful for small favors. Of course it could only be because concern for the condition of lady parts is not a priority in the GOP. Screw vaj-jay-jays, it's all about the penis.

199 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:52:00pm

re: #195 ozbloke

Oh my, how fucking embarrassing.

Since this is clearly aimed at President Obama, I think Michelle should send them a letter describing is as long and black like the rest of him.

200 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:52:16pm

Has John Kyl fired his "press person" for calling him a liar? If not then it's pretty difficult to believe he "misspoke." Hell, it's already impossible to believe, nobody honestly mistakes 3 for >90, ever. It strains all credulity.

Have any elected Republicans condemned Kyl's lie?

201 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:52:17pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

It could be worse. They could have said that female candidates also had to have their penises inspected.

Kinky.

202 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:54:38pm

And Bryan Fischer comes out of hiding.

Mitt Romney: The Man Who Gave Us Homosexual Marriage

His candidacy has one potentially insurmountable problem: America has same-sex marriage because of Mitt Romney.

This is just one of several huge vulnerabilities Mitt Romney has as he tries to convince the members of his own party that he is conservative enough to claim the Republican mantle for 2012. His flip-flops on abortion, RomneyCare in Massachusetts, and the unorthodoxy of Mormon theology are just three of the other hurdles he will have to clear.

But same-sex marriage is the biggie. The first domino to fall in the crusade to give marital recognition to non-normative sexual unions fell in Massachusetts, and it fell because then-governor Romney pushed it over.

203 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:56:21pm

re: #194 moderatelyradicalliberal

I wasn't blaming Kyl for for how dumb the GOP legislature is in Arizona. I just think the same kind of stupid is common in the GOP right now. If you can name a recent mea culpa by a GOP politician that said something stupid or untrue, I would actually welcome it. In the meantime if the GOP doesn't want people to think they are ducks, they should stop waddling and quacking.

The dumb pretty much starts with Governor Brewer and flows on downward.

204 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:56:57pm

re: #195 ozbloke

Oh my, how fucking embarrassing.

Also too. The GOP doesn't even get embarrassed and that's the problem.

205 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:57:54pm

I posted this on the pages, but wasn't the circumcision thing an issue during the election? They called them the Schlongers? heh

Personally, I've heard plenty of Clinton's twig and berries. I don't want to hear about Obamas.

206 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 9:59:16pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And Bryan Fischer comes out of hiding.

Mitt Romney: The Man Who Gave Us Homosexual Marriage

That's actually a pretty good summation of Mitten's troubles. He just left out the fact that he is also dull as dish water and comes across with the sincerity of a used car salesman. Mitt has problems. Big problems.

207 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:00:02pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Non-normative sexual unions? Because straight people just aren't into non-normative sex like them dirty gays!
/

208 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:01:02pm

Good night, all.

209 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:02:09pm

re: #206 moderatelyradicalliberal

That's actually a pretty good summation of Mitten's troubles. He just left out the fact that he is also dull as dish water and comes across with the sincerity of a used car salesman. Mitt has problems. Big problems.

Except Fischer's point is that Romney's decision to actually treat all citizens like citizens is a negative to the Evangelicals.

210 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:02:25pm

re: #207 Cankles McCellulite

Non-normative sexual unions? Because straight people just aren't into non-normative sex like them dirty gays!
/

Saddlebacking

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:05:19pm

re: #205 marjoriemoon

I posted this on the pages, but wasn't the circumcision thing an issue during the election? They called them the Schlongers? heh

Personally, I've heard plenty of Clinton's twig and berries. I don't want to hear about Obamas.

Yeah. I spent too much time worrying about the Clinton junk. I don't want to hear about any more presidential genitals.

There seem to be two conflicting schools of thought. One seems to be that if Obama was sekretly born in Africa, he won't be circumcised, although why they wouldn't have had it done after returning to the U.S. is not clear.

The other school says that he WILL be circumcised if he is really Muslim. How we will be able to tell the difference between a Muslim circumcision and a routine American circumcision not clarified either.

I do not care. If Michelle is happy, I am happy. I am also happy to believe that the president wears white boxer shorts at all times, even in the shower, like a paper doll.

212 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:06:34pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My husband would non normative saddleback me all day if i let him! He must be gay! He tried to fool me with his bad fashion sense and collection of all 3 Jackass movies!

213 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:06:35pm

I'm at a loss to think who's worse Brewer or Governor Skeletor.

214 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:07:30pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

I say we elect a Jew. Then no one will have to bother!

215 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:08:29pm

Goodnight, all.

216 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:08:30pm

for all the Saddlebackers

Youtube Video
217 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:08:55pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. I spent too much time worrying about the Clinton junk. I don't want to hear about any more presidential genitals.

There seem to be two conflicting schools of thought. One seems to be that if Obama was sekretly born in Africa, he won't be circumcised, although why they wouldn't have had it done after returning to the U.S. is not clear.

The other school says that he WILL be circumcised if he is really Muslim. How we will be able to tell the difference between a Muslim circumcision and a routine American circumcision not clarified either.

I do not care. If Michelle is happy, I am happy. I am also happy to believe that the president wears white boxer shorts at all times, even in the shower, like a paper doll.

LOL I think there's an SNL skit in here somewhere.

218 sizzleRI  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:09:11pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

I am also happy to believe that the president wears white boxer shorts at all times, even in the shower, like a paper doll.

if I'm honest, this is how I hope all people I don't want to see naked, live.

Seriously, I always want to know less about politician penis.

219 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:12:17pm

Speaking of political naughty bits, has anyone heard Margaret Cho's stand-up about Palin? It's funny as hell. Way dirty.

220 Artist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:13:47pm

re: #219 marjoriemoon

Has she tried to sue him for "Blood Libel" about it or something? :P

221 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:15:48pm

re: #216 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well now i know what saddlebacking is! For some reason, i thought there was an actual saddle involved.

222 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:17:49pm

re: #220 SteelPH

Has she tried to sue him for "Blood Libel" about it or something? :P

Ok, I just googled it. We saw it on net flicks and it's probably something I wouldn't necessarily link to if I found it, but apparently, in other news, Margaret has been (was?) having a bit of a row with Bristol. I didn't read too much further.

223 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:18:49pm

re: #221 Cankles McCellulite

Well now i know what saddlebacking is! For some reason, i thought there was an actual saddle involved.

Well, there can be.

For the actual meaning

In 2008–2009, as a response to then President-elect Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren to give the invocation at Obama's inauguration – and in response to Stephen Colbert's comment that saddleback sounded like a sex act – Savage Love readers were encouraged to vote to define the neologism saddlebacking in reference to Warren's role as pastor of Saddleback Church. Warren and the church supported the 2008 California constitutional amendment Proposition 8, which required the state to recognize only marriage between a man and a woman. The winning definition for saddlebacking was "the phenomenon of Christian teens engaging in unprotected anal sex in order to preserve their virginities".[12]

224 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:23:03pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, there can be.

For the actual meaning

What doesn't the wiki have. Learn something new every day!

225 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:24:22pm

My Donald Trump inspired Photoshop.

226 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:25:36pm

re: #225 goddamnedfrank
HA!

227 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:29:03pm

re: #224 marjoriemoon

What doesn't the wiki have. Learn something new every day!

It has yet to have an accurate entry on the Roane Deepers, but thats a completely different subject.

228 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:31:57pm

re: #225 goddamnedfrank

My Donald Trump inspired Photoshop.

It's actually frightening to watch this man implode like this. He's such a pitiful sad joke.

[Link: nymag.com...]

John Legend Does Not Approve of Donald Trump Right Now

"He needs to stop saying that racist bullshit birther shit," John Legend told us at the Jazz at Lincoln Center 2011 Annual Gala last night, referring to a certain conspiracy-minded real-estate tycoon/reality-TV star. "Quote me please," he added (done!). "He should be ashamed of himself. It’s awful, really."

And there's Tracy Morgan hehe

Tracy Morgan: I Have Obama's Birth Certificate and Trump Has Illegitimate Black Son (VIDEO)

[Link: www.tvsquad.com...]

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:45:34pm

John Legend is just so darn cute.

230 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:51:23pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

John Legend is just so darn cute.

That he is!

I was just reading about The Donald's comments about "the Blacks" on a radio show.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

and here

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

He's basically calling Blacks racist for voting for Obama. Now there's a way to win friends and influence people!

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:58:38pm

re: #230 marjoriemoon

That he is!

I was just reading about The Donald's comments about "the Blacks" on a radio show.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

and here

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

He's basically calling Blacks racist for voting for Obama. Now there's a way to win friends and influence people!

Two questions:

1. What percentage of black Americans voted for Kerry, Gore, and Clinton? In other words, how much MORE of the black vote could Obama get by being black, as opposed to a Dem?

2. What percentage of Americans had, up until 2008, NEVER voted for a presidential candidate who wasn't white?

//

232 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:04:21pm

i'm working on a theory that donald trump actually has something against the republican party and this is part of his sneaky seckrit plan to destroy its chances in 2012

or maybe mitt crossed him up on a business thing once, who knows...

233 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:05:00pm

re: #232 engineer dog

i'm working on a theory that donald trump actually has something against the republican party and this is part of his sneaky seckrit plan to destroy its chances in 2012

or maybe mitt crossed him up on a business thing once, who knows...

Trump can crush the GOP by running as in Indep in '12.

234 freetoken  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:06:13pm

re: #232 engineer dog

The Donald is in business for himself, and only for himself. This stunt is a way to make himself even more well known, to boost ratings of his show, and to make sure he goes down in history books as more than just a casino owner.

235 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:07:25pm

re: #230 marjoriemoon

He's basically calling Blacks racist for voting for Obama. Now there's a way to win friends and influence people!

When people try this shit on me I always ask them how reasonable it was to expect black people to vote for a guy (McCain) who voted against establishing MLK Day as a national holiday. I almost never get a response.

236 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:11:40pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Trump can crush the GOP by running as in Indep in '12.

ABSOFRICKINGLUTELY.
He pulls off 10% of the base & they're hosed.

237 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:12:22pm

re: #232 engineer dog

i'm working on a theory that donald trump actually has something against the republican party and this is part of his sneaky seckrit plan to destroy its chances in 2012

or maybe mitt crossed him up on a business thing once, who knows...

Or, he just wants to get attention for his "brand".

238 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:19:30pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Trump can crush the GOP by running as in Indep in '12.

trump can crush the gop by running as a republican in '12

:-)

239 Kragar  Thu, Apr 14, 2011 11:24:41pm

Pastor's message angers Evangelicals

240 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:13:42am

re: #238 engineer dog

I'm afraid the Republican party is forming the proverbial circular firing squad.

241 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:25:06am

re: #232 engineer dog

i'm working on a theory that donald trump actually has something against the republican party and this is part of his sneaky seckrit plan to destroy its chances in 2012

or maybe mitt crossed him up on a business thing once, who knows...

I have another personal theory (completely unfounded by facts, but who needs those) that Donal Trump is seriously overleveraged in his business dealings and a shadow figure has come up and agreed to help keep him solvent as long as he continues spouting this shit and keeping birtherism in the headlines.

Just speculation, mind you, but I think it is worthy of its own blogsite at this point...

242 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:29:32am

re: #241 ralphieboy

I like it. Perhaps he doesn't want to go bankrupt again.

243 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:33:13am

re: #241 ralphieboy

CONSPIRACY!!

244 bbcrackmonkey  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:42:17am

An Italian member of the ISM (International Solidarity Movement), a pro-Palestinian organization most famous for Rachel Corrie, was kidnapped in the Gaza Strip by a Salafist, Al-Qaeda linked group called Monotheism and Holy War, who promptly executed him after their demands for the release of their leader and 2 other members was ignored by Hamas.

Even Hamas has trouble with Islamic extremists

245 boxhead  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:42:50am

re: #204 moderatelyradicalliberal

Also too. The GOP doesn't even get embarrassed and that's the problem.

no shame at all..... cause they know they have a huge media machine behind them. And the "true" believers will never think badly about the Righties...

246 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:43:23am

re: #243 freetoken

CONSPIRACY!!

It's just that I cannot believe him to be so blatantly stupid. There is some method to his madness, my conspiracy theory is just one possible explanation.

247 boxhead  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:45:07am

re: #246 ralphieboy

It's just that I cannot believe him to be so blatantly stupid. There is some method to his madness, my conspiracy theory is just one possible explanation.

This will end up his next reality tv show called "how dumb are you?"

248 boxhead  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:53:20am

re: #247 boxhead

This will end up his next reality tv show called "how dumb are you?"

btw, not you personally ralphie, just the GOP royal we... :)

249 boxhead  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:58:03am

damn.... killed another thread..... I did shower today... :p

250 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:09:07am

61 years ago this week, here was the top hit:

MP3 Audio
251 boxhead  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:11:25am

re: #250 freetoken

lol

252 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:23:19am

More my flavor, the one and only Ismael Rivera:

MP3 Audio
253 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:30:38am

1931, a song for Depression era America:

MP3 Audio
254 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:35:55am

I'll leave y'all with Sibelius' "The Swan of Tuonela":

MP3 Audio
255 researchok  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:22:12am

Morning, all

256 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:33:18am

Because it's never wrong to post it:

George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946

257 M. Dubious  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:49:53am

Sometimes, I make factual statements. Other times, I just make statements. And every now and then, I make facts.

258 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:51:08am

re: #256 Obdicut

"Spending reductions in the tax code"

Comedy Central Video

...in which Ayn Rand and Orwell make an appearance.

259 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:54:25am

There are Higher Truths. We are allowed to make factual misstatements if they bring us closer to the Truth.

This has been the basis of politics, religion and coutrship ever since we developed language.

260 M. Dubious  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:57:50am

re: #259 ralphieboy

There are Higher Truths. We are allowed to make factual misstatements if they bring us closer to the Truth.

This has been the basis of politics, religion and coutrship ever since we developed language.

Yes, what better way to get to the truth than by lying and deceiving.

261 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:00:19am

We had to destroy the Truth in order to save it...

262 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:01:25am

re: #132 Killgore Trout

I'm hoping that this will end it. He's been pushing the property line a few inches every year because he's convinced himself it's his property. I try not to be upright about these things and I'm not happy about having to pay for the survey but I'm hoping this will put the matter to rest. I find my fellow humans tiresome at times but I'm trying real hard.

Why would you agree to pay for anything? If your neighbor thinks there's a mistake it's their responsibility to pay for a survey. How long have you and your neighbor lived there?

264 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:12:44am

re: #256 Obdicut

Because it's never wrong to post it:

George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946

yep!

needs to be put in the Pages and referenced often.

265 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:19:01am

Ex-UN arms inspector convicted in online sex case

MSNBC Video

One less dirt bag drama-queen on the streets.

266 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:34:13am

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

Holy hell, are those cheap. I pray the Detroit will recover.

Yeah, there are some really sweet properties here. I think a bunch of families from Brooklyn should make a "settlement" in some of the old neighborhoods.

267 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:35:04am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

21,000

I have to admit I've though about moving to Detroit. You could live like a king.

Holy shit, that's my old zip code.

268 freetoken  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:42:10am

Wacky wire story headline of the day:

Japan takes step towards ordinary life as Disneyland reopens

"Ordinary life" = "Disneyland".

There's little hope for Homo sapiens.

269 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:49:15am

re: #268 freetoken


Essa smaru wurudu aftah aru!

270 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:55:47am

re: #267 Alouette

Holy shit, that's my old zip code.

I have cousins in Royal Oak and Hazel Park

271 Summer Seale  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 4:56:36am

Good afternoon Lizaroids,

I just had a question about honesty, consistency, and integrity:

Doesn't anyone find it incredibly odd that the French were so adamant and insistent on letting Saddam stay in power, and yet are now calling for the removal of Gaddafi for the exact same reasons that Bush called for the removal of Saddam?

I actually supported the removal of Saddam and I support the removal of Gaddafi, but at least I'm being consistent. Now, why is it that the world isn't coming down on the French for being blatant hypocrites in the first order?

272 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:02:34am

Consistency and integrity in foreighn policy is always subordinate to national political and economic interests.

273 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:21:21am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday to all.

274 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:35:30am

Good Morning folks,

Seems the problems in Waukesha County are more than it first appeared. Investigations are ongoing in all the elections since 2005 at this point. See my page for more details.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

275 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:36:31am

re: #273 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday to all.

Big frackin whoopee.

276 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:38:45am

re: #275 Walter L. Newton

Big frackin whoopee.

Coffee pot is that way. --->

277 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:50:09am

re: #276 thedopefishlives

Coffee pot is that way. --->

I don't drink coffee... coffee is for the rich... cheap house brand coffee is 8.99 a can now... house brand columbian is 10.99, Starbucks and the other name brand stuff is now kept under lock and key in the cereal aisle. If coffee gets any more expensive, I'm going to see if I can put it in my gas tank,

278 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:51:53am

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

I don't drink coffee... coffee is for the rich... cheap house brand coffee is 8.99 a can now... house brand columbian is 10.99, Starbucks and the other name brand stuff is now kept under lock and key in the cereal aisle. If coffee gets any more expensive, I'm going to see if I can put it in my gas tank,

I don't drink coffee either. My wife is a coffee fiend, but we only really get to have it on special occasions, when I can afford to go to the coffee shop to get the frou-frou drinks she prefers. We do keep a can of the regular joe in the house for when people come to visit.

279 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:55:35am

Why... why...

"Storms head for Southeast after raking Oklahoma and Arkansas"

Weather has become another aspect of reality TV. Geeessshhh... this kind of tornadic weather happens every year, in the south, the west, the midwest, hell, I've sat in a bar in Cranberry New Jersey (northern NJ) and had a tornado pass by a 1/4 mile away.

Yes, they are dangerous, lose of life is tragic, but the news covers this stuff like it's some fucking rare, earth shattering incidents.

Just like the circus in Rome, humans are easily entertained, and we get some sick thrill out of death and destruction.

280 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:56:56am

re: #278 thedopefishlives

I don't drink coffee either. My wife is a coffee fiend, but we only really get to have it on special occasions, when I can afford to go to the coffee shop to get the frou-frou drinks she prefers. We do keep a can of the regular joe in the house for when people come to visit.

I work part time at a Kroger grocery store... even the regular joe is 5.99 for a 12 ounce can... and I'm talking about a can that says "cafe molito" I'm sure it's not even pure coffee, I think it's cut with something.

281 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:57:13am

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

I've noticed. I drink a couple pots a day, even the cheap brands are getting crazy prices around here.

282 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 5:58:31am

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

I work part time at a Kroger grocery store... even the regular joe is 5.99 for a 12 ounce can... and I'm talking about a can that says "cafe molito" I'm sure it's not even pure coffee, I think it's cut with something.

Yeah, it's bad. That's why I'm glad the can that we have has lasted us for months (and should continue to do, too). Times are getting tight and I'm on the low end of my field's pay scale at the moment.

283 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:01:06am

re: #282 thedopefishlives

Yeah, it's bad. That's why I'm glad the can that we have has lasted us for months (and should continue to do, too). Times are getting tight and I'm on the low end of my field's pay scale at the moment.

Got ya... I know what you mean... grocery store can't get much lower on the pay scale... if it wasn't for the occasional programming work I still do from home for Kaiser, I'd be hurting.

I love coffee, but it's not good for my stomach, or my pocketbook.

284 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:03:43am

re: #281 RogueOne

I've noticed. I drink a couple pots a day, even the cheap brands are getting crazy prices around here.

Folgers Columbian is 11.99 for a 12 ounce can... the prices of coffee when up an average of 3.00 for a 12 ounce can in the last month. And from what our pricer says, you'll see even higher prices before summer.

I keep track of cereal and coffee prices, since when I do my two overnights on Sat/Sun, besides watching the front end and cashiering, I get to stock cereal and coffee and the other stuff in that aisle.

285 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:04:34am

re: #283 Walter L. Newton

Got ya... I know what you mean... grocery store can't get much lower on the pay scale... if it wasn't for the occasional programming work I still do from home for Kaiser, I'd be hurting.

I love coffee, but it's not good for my stomach, or my pocketbook.

The price of gas is what's killing me right now. At $3.80 a gallon, I drive 80 miles every day for 5 days a week. At least I have a job, yes, but an opportunity closer to home would be most welcome.

286 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:05:57am

I remember there was some chatter yesterday on LFG from some Lizards talking about how Detroit would be an interesting investment right now, real estate, moving there, stuff like that... here's a tidbit for you...

" Prostitution, pot legalization could make Detroit attractive, Fieger says"

Why not, barrister and occasional mayoral candidate Geoffrey Fieger said during a taping of “Michigan Matters” on what he would do if he walked in Detroit Mayor Dave Bing’s shoes and tried to address the city’s woes.

“I could turn it around in five minutes,” Fieger said.

“I’d shovel the snow and I’d clean the streets and parks. Then, I’d tell the police department to leave marijuana alone and don’t spend one dime trying to enforce marijuana laws. I also would not enforce prostitution laws and I’d make us the new Amsterdam.”

“We would attract young people,” Fieger said. “You make Detroit a fun city. A place they want to live and they would flock here.”

Fieger, who ran as a Democrat for governor, appeared with Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson, who took exception to his idea.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

287 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:07:15am

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

I remember there was some chatter yesterday on LFG from some Lizards talking about how Detroit would be an interesting investment right now, real estate, moving there, stuff like that... here's a tidbit for you...

" Prostitution, pot legalization could make Detroit attractive, Fieger says"

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Geoffrey Feiger is an attention-seeking asshat.

288 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:07:39am

re: #287 Alouette

Geoffrey Feiger is an attention-seeking asshat.

And.... ?

289 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:11:02am

re: #288 Walter L. Newton

And... ?

He ran for governor of Michigan in 1998. a dirty, nasty campaign. And received an epic ass kicking. Since then he has been a sad, irrelevant little attention queen, like a local Donald Trump but without the money.

290 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:11:24am

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

Prostitution, pot and telling the police to ignore crime would make Detroit a "fun" city?

291 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:17:19am

re: #290 reine.de.tout

Prostitution, pot and telling the police to ignore crime would make Detroit a "fun" city?

Legalize the first two and the third is no longer an issue.

292 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:17:46am

re: #290 reine.de.tout

Prostitution, pot and telling the police to ignore crime would make Detroit a "fun" city?

I agree.
/

293 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:20:25am

re: #289 Alouette

He ran for governor of Michigan in 1998. a dirty, nasty campaign. And received an epic ass kicking. Since then he has been a sad, irrelevant little attention queen, like a local Donald Trump but without the money.

Looks like he's got some problems with Rabbi's too...

In 1998 Fieger ran unsuccessfully as the Democratic nominee for governor of Michigan. During the campaign Fieger made several inflammatory and controversial comments and statements, including

1) an assertion that his opponent John Engler was the product of barnyard miscegenation;[6]

2) a claim that "rabbis are closer to Nazis than they think." [7]

3) a radio appearance characterizing Michigan appellate judges as "jackasses" for overturning a 15 million dollar medical malpractice judgment he had won. (A lower court reprimand based on these comments was eventually upheld by the Michigan Supreme Court.)[8]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

294 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:21:48am

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

Looks like he's got some problems with Rabbi's too...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He is just a pathetic loser, he says all these outrageous things for attention.

295 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:23:25am

re: #294 Alouette

He is just a pathetic loser, he says all these outrageous things for attention.

We had him in Denver during Columbine, representing one of the families who lost a child... if I remember correctly, he tried to turn it into a circus.

296 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:25:33am

re: #291 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Legalize the first two and the third is no longer an issue.

So there would be no more murder, robbert, assault, rape, etc?

I'm not convinced.

I was thinking that since Detroit has such affordable housing, I mean really affordable, pitifully so, that some organization wanting to come in with something like, I don't know, a first-class trade school or community college, might be able to attract people to the area.

Silly me - thinking "Let's provide a learning opportunity!" instead of prostitution would be a good idea.

297 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:26:13am

Morning Honcos.

298 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:27:24am

re: #295 Walter L. Newton

We had him in Denver during Columbine, representing one of the families who lost a child... if I remember correctly, he tried to turn it into a circus.

Fieger is so totally washed up and over, it's just sad now when he tries to get in the media.

299 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:29:09am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

So there would be no more murder, robbert, assault, rape, etc?

I'm not convinced.

I was thinking that since Detroit has such affordable housing, I mean really affordable, pitifully so, that some organization wanting to come in with something like, I don't know, a first-class trade school or community college, might be able to attract people to the area.

Silly me - thinking "Let's provide a learning opportunity!" instead of prostitution would be a good idea.

Interesting... Fieger is talking about turning Detroit into a New Amsterdam, while at the same time, if I remember correctly, Amsterdam has tapped down on it's legal prostitution, putting many more constraints on it then in the past.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:30:07am

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... Fieger is talking about turning Detroit into a New Amsterdam, while at the same time, if I remember correctly, Amsterdam has tapped down on it's legal prostitution, putting many more constraints on it then in the past.

I am pro constraints-on-hookers. Just sayin'.
/

301 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:30:26am

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... Fieger is talking about turning Detroit into a New Amsterdam, while at the same time, if I remember correctly, Amsterdam has tapped down on it's legal prostitution, putting many more constraints on it then in the past.

I don't really care if a place has legal prostitution or pot or not.
But it does seem to me to be a strange thing on which to try to build an entire city economy.

302 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:30:41am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

So there would be no more murder, robbert, assault, rape, etc?

I'm not convinced.

I was thinking that since Detroit has such affordable housing, I mean really affordable, pitifully so, that some organization wanting to come in with something like, I don't know, a first-class trade school or community college, might be able to attract people to the area.

Silly me - thinking "Let's provide a learning opportunity!" instead of prostitution would be a good idea.

Seriously, how much money would Detroit save yearly if, instead of throwing pot smokers in jail for being caught with a couple joints, they instead assigned them to counseling? Or how much revenue could be brought in by taxing legalized prostitution?

If we can slap a heavy "sin tax" on a carton of cigarettes or a sixpack of beer, why not on other "sins"? That's revenue that can go to help blighted communities, help fund much need renovation, and pay off debts that are slowly crippling cities.

303 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:31:55am

The main problem with buying a bunch of distressed properties in Detroit and trying to turn them into something liveable, and attract young families to the area, is that the city will soak you for the property tax.

The city is giving away mansions in the Boston-Edison district, to all members of the Detroit Police Force who currently reside in the suburbs.

304 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:32:39am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

It's incredibly affordable because of the crime rates, lack of jobs, and a totally dysfunctional city government. It's a shame, Detroit and the surrounding areas are full of very nice old school architecture. Michigan as a whole has a lot of old towns that I like driving through just to look at the buildings. The whole state should be doing much better than it is.

305 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:33:14am

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Seriously, how much money would Detroit save yearly if, instead of throwing pot smokers in jail for being caught with a couple joints, they instead assigned them to counseling? Or how much revenue could be brought in by taxing legalized prostitution?

If we can slap a heavy "sin tax" on a carton of cigarettes or a sixpack of beer, why not on other "sins"? That's revenue that can go to help blighted communities, help fund much need renovation, and pay off debts that are slowly crippling cities.

A number of suburbs outside Detroit have already legalized medical marijuana. Zedushka wants to plant pot in our backyard this summer.

306 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:33:25am

re: #301 reine.de.tout

I don't really care if a place has legal prostitution or pot or not.
But it does seem to me to be a strange thing on which to try to build an entire city economy.

I'm not waving his flag for this at all... I just passed on the article, and made some comments.

Even France is trying to put new constraints on it's prostitution, which is not legal, but not a criminal action.

An association of French prostitutes has slammed a parliamentary report recommending that paying for sex should be criminalised.

Published on Wednesday, the report recommends a €3,000 fine and up to six months in jail for those who solicit sex. Prostitution is not illegal in France, but procuring or soliciting other people for sex is.

Penned by lawmakers Danielle Bousquet (Socialist Party) and Guy Geoffrey (ruling UMP), the report argues that, “Punishing clients would make them understand that they are engaged in a form of exploitation.”

The new proposals would help demystify the trade, say the authors. “It would reaffirm the principle of non-commercialisation of the human body and bury the myth that prostitution is simply the ‘oldest trade in the world’ once and for all.”

[Link: www.france24.com...]

307 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:34:55am

re: #304 RogueOne

It's incredibly affordable because of the crime rates, lack of jobs, and a totally dysfunctional city government. It's a shame, Detroit and the surrounding areas are full of very nice old school architecture. Michigan as a whole has a lot of old towns that I like driving through just to look at the buildings. The whole state should be doing much better than it is.

I see how families live all smashed up in tiny apartments in Brooklyn, when they could move here and buy a 5-bedroom house with a big backyard.

308 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:35:24am

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Seriously, how much money would Detroit save yearly if, instead of throwing pot smokers in jail for being caught with a couple joints, they instead assigned them to counseling? Or how much revenue could be brought in by taxing legalized prostitution?

If we can slap a heavy "sin tax" on a carton of cigarettes or a sixpack of beer, why not on other "sins"? That's revenue that can go to help blighted communities, help fund much need renovation, and pay off debts that are slowly crippling cities.

Fieger is talking about turning it into a local industry... " I’d make us the new Amsterdam.”"

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Big fucking difference then just having lax laws on pot and prostitution.

309 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:36:45am

re: #303 Alouette

The main problem with buying a bunch of distressed properties in Detroit and trying to turn them into something liveable, and attract young families to the area, is that the city will soak you for the property tax.

The city is giving away mansions in the Boston-Edison district, to all members of the Detroit Police Force who currently reside in the suburbs.

Yeah, I was noticing the property taxes on those properties. I paid $12 property tax last year.

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Seriously, how much money would Detroit save yearly if, instead of throwing pot smokers in jail for being caught with a couple joints, they instead assigned them to counseling? Or how much revenue could be brought in by taxing legalized prostitution?

If we can slap a heavy "sin tax" on a carton of cigarettes or a sixpack of beer, why not on other "sins"? That's revenue that can go to help blighted communities, help fund much need renovation, and pay off debts that are slowly crippling cities.

"Sin taxes" seem to have a strange way of ending up not being spent in the way the public is lead to believe they're going to be spent.

310 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:37:16am

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

MI passed a medical marijuana law a couple years ago and they have fairly lax possession/usage laws if for some reason you can't find a doctor to write you a note. Possession of any amount is a misdemeanor.

311 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:38:28am

Isn't "regime change" always a bad idea at least since Iraq?
Not anymore I guess. The winds of change blow like a hurricane this century.
Libya: Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy vow Gaddafi must go
Barack Obama, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy say Nato must maintain military operations to protect civilians and maintain pressure on Col Gaddafi.

To allow him to remain in power would "betray" the Libyan people, they write.

312 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:38:58am

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

Fieger is talking about turning it into a local industry... " I’d make us the new Amsterdam.”"

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Big fucking difference then just having lax laws on pot and prostitution.

Yeah, I don't exactly think it's the basis for an economy, but I think that it's time we as a nation seriously reconsider our views on both. How much money could we save a year in law enforcement costs alone? Or bring in through licensed and taxed venues?

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:38:58am

re: #309 reine.de.tout

Yeah, I was noticing the property taxes on those properties. I paid $12 property tax last year.

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Sin taxes" seem to have a strange way of ending up not being spent in the way the public is lead to believe they're going to be spent.

We got the lottery here to help with education. Then they moved the money in the budget from the skools to other projects because of the extra money.

314 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:40:51am

re: #311 Rightwingconspirator

I think today is the 25th anniversary of us bombing Libya.

315 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:41:20am

re: #310 RogueOne

I was working on a job up there in December. We were going to have to spend the weekend because a mistake made by the GC (white collar corporate guy wearing a tie). As he's apologizing to me for screwing up my weekend he mentions "my sister just got her weed card if you need something to do this weekend". Struck me funny.

316 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:42:03am

re: #315 RogueOne

So, how much did you get?

317 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:49:47am

re: #314 Cannadian Club Akbar
That is interesting. Time goes so fast. It's long past time the man responsible for Lockerbie paid his dues to justice.

318 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:51:02am

re: #311 Rightwingconspirator

Isn't "regime change" always a bad idea at least since Iraq?
Not anymore I guess. The winds of change blow like a hurricane this century.
Libya: Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy vow Gaddafi must go
Barack Obama, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy say Nato must maintain military operations to protect civilians and maintain pressure on Col Gaddafi.

To allow him to remain in power would "betray" the Libyan people, they write.

This is why I would hate to be the leader of any country.
On these sorts of issues - they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I just try to keep in mind that those folks, the leaders of the various countries of the world, have access to lots of information we don't have, and I hope and pray they're making the right and necessary decisions. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:52:18am

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

That is interesting. Time goes so fast. It's long past time the man responsible for Lockerbie paid his dues to justice.

His release was total bullshit. The UK should be embarrassed. IIRC, they helps to get contracts for BP to drill off of Libya.

320 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:54:00am

Cool! And quite eerie:

Researchers in Alaska used an underwater microphone to pick up the vibrations from the huge quake nine hundred miles away. Click play and listen for yourself.

321 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:54:58am

re: #320 reine.de.tout

Cool! And quite eerie:

Researchers in Alaska used an underwater microphone to pick up the vibrations from the huge quake nine hundred miles away. Click play and listen for yourself.

Sounds like my stomach.

322 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:55:04am

re: #316 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, how much did you get?

I laughed politely. I'm not shy but sometimes things are nobody's business.

The surrounding states (MI,OH,KY) around IN all have pretty relaxed marijuana laws. IL is crazy but they're still more lax than us. The state tried to get a handle on the number of residents we're shipping off to prison for marijuana possession but the prosecutors flipped out and it looks like the whole deal is going to be scrapped.

Daniels plan to stem prison costs appears dead
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

323 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:56:03am

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

Sounds like my stomach.

LOL.

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:57:58am

re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar

His release was total bullshit. The UK should be embarrassed. IIRC, they helps helped to get contracts for BP to drill off of Libya.

325 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:58:36am

UN to decry new settlement any second:

Justin Bieber fans form new settlement outside Tel Aviv hotel
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:02:17am

re: #325 RogueOne

UN to decry new settlement any second:

Justin Bieber fans form new settlement outside Tel Aviv hotel
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Don't pull him into politics!!
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

327 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:03:48am

re: #326 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't pull him into politics!!
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

I would support kinetic military action against a Justin Bieber settlement. Think of the children!

328 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:05:01am

re: #320 reine.de.tout

Do you hear that sound Mr. Anderson. That is the sound of your doom. /Smith

329 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:05:54am

re: #327 RogueOne

So, you don't have the Bieber fever. Completely understandable. But I think you need to take your ire out on the guy who found him and launched him as an entertainment figure - Usher.

330 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:08:41am

re: #329 lawhawk

So, you don't have the Bieber fever. Completely understandable. But I think you need to take your ire out on the guy who found him and launched him as an entertainment figure - Usher.

I now hate Usher, not that I liked him before. (actually, Usher has a song with Hall and Oats sampled into the background, but I have no idea what it is called) But I love KISS because they gave us Van Halen.

331 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:09:45am

re: #330 Cannadian Club Akbar

And KISS also helped widen the exposure of Rush (the band), not the no-talent ass clown who rules the airwaves.

332 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:10:05am

This guy currently writes for Reason but he's moving to HuffPo soon so I think he's safe for you commies to read//:

How the Innocent Get Convicted
[Link: www.theagitator.com...]

In the piece he references these two pieces in Slate:

Getting It Wrong: Convicting the Innocent
Who Confesses to a Crime They Didn't Commit?
[Link: www.slate.com...]

How Eyewitnesses Can Send Innocents to Jail
[Link: www.slate.com...]

333 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:10:54am

re: #331 lawhawk

And KISS also helped widen the exposure of Rush (the band), not the no-talent ass clown who rules the airwaves.

Rush was first played in Hamilton, ONT. I lived there for a short time. And 2112 was my first album.

334 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:12:42am

re: #333 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rush was first played in Hamilton, ONT. I lived there for a short time. And 2112 was my first album.

Rush was the first concert I went to...

Who opened for them? Primus. Needless to say the whole thing rocked.

335 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:13:17am

re: #331 lawhawk

And KISS also helped widen the exposure of Rush (the band), not the no-talent ass clown who rules the airwaves.

I'd also support kinetic military action against Canada for giving us Rush.

336 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:13:47am

re: #334 brennant

Rush was the first concert I went to...

Who opened for them? Primus. Needless to say the whole thing rocked.

My first one too. Long before Primus, though.

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:14:42am

re: #335 RogueOne

I'd also support kinetic military action against Canada for giving us Rush.

Ever heard of the Tragically Hip?

338 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:17:14am

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever heard of the Tragically Hip?

Yeah. I thought I had something of theirs but I after looking I guess not.

339 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:17:25am

re: #336 Cannadian Club Akbar

My first one too. Long before Primus, though.

>_

340 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:17:37am

re: #327 RogueOne

I would support kinetic military action against a Justin Bieber settlement. Think of the children!

Rush sucks!
Bomb Canada.

341 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:18:02am

re: #340 Varek Raith

Rush sucks!
Bomb Canada.

Whoops wrong quote.
Rush still sucks.

342 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:19:32am

re: #340 Varek Raith

Rush sucks!

Flaming bag of shit at your front door.

343 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:21:31am

There have been a lot of good Canadian acts, some I've liked through the years, but their gifts of Rush and Celine Dion completely outweigh the good they've done. Canada has to be punished!

344 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:22:41am

re: #342 brennant

Flaming bag of shit at your front door.

So does Yes.
:P

345 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:23:02am

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

I read one of the things from Wikileaks. Apparently, the reason behind the release was something else. Britain was under the impression that if Al-Magrahi wasn't released before his death, Gaddafi would retaliate somehow.

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:23:10am

re: #343 RogueOne

There have been a lot of good Canadian acts, some I've liked through the years, but their gifts of Rush and Celine Dion completely outweigh the good they've done. Canada has to be punished!

Take away their hockey teams!! Wait, we've done that with a couple of teams.

347 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:23:55am

Underwater microphone captures sound of 9.0 earthquake:[Link: idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

348 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:25:12am

re: #345 ProLifeLiberal

Should clarify: I saw a little thing on the page of al-Megrahi on Wikipedia.

349 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:25:47am

re: #343 RogueOne

Celine Dion

In Canada's defense, she's French./

350 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:26:35am

re: #344 Varek Raith

So does Yes.
:P

ha!

351 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:26:35am

re: #347 prairiefire

Underwater microphone captures sound of 9.0 earthquake:[Link: idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Playing that through my surround sound system caused the room to shake...
Damn!

352 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:26:38am

re: #344 Varek Raith

So does Yes.
:P

Hey now, lets not get carried away here.

353 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:27:22am

re: #352 RogueOne

Hey now, lets not get carried away here.

It's what I do!
Down with post 80's Metallica!

354 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:27:58am

re: #349 thedopefishlives

In Canada's defense, she's French./

When I lived there, Quebec wanted to be their own country. People in Ontario wanted them to get their wish.

355 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:33:23am

re: #353 Varek Raith

Hey... Death Magnetic was a return to 80s classicist Metallica.

For proof:

Youtube Video
Youtube Video

You just have to ignore Load, Reload, and St. Anger - and skip the releases between the Black Album and Death Magnetic to get your Metallica fix.

Still, my favorite album is Ride the Lightning, followed by Master of Puppets.

And I've seen 'em more than any other band - 4x, including at Woodstock 94. To say that they rock is an understatement.

356 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:33:25am

re: #349 thedopefishlives

In Canada's defense, she's French./

What do you mean she's "french"

357 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:35:07am

re: #355 lawhawk

Hey... Death Magnetic was a return to 80s classicist Metallica.

For proof:

[Video]You just have to ignore Load, Reload, and St. Anger - and skip the releases between the Black Album and Death Magnetic to get your Metallica fix.

Still, my favorite album is Ride the Lightning, followed by Master of Puppets.

And I've seen 'em more than any other band - 4x, including at Woodstock 94. To say that they rock is an understatement.

I'll give them that.
:)

358 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:35:09am

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

What do you mean she's "french"

Pardon me. She's a French Canadian, which many Canadians (at least the ones I joke around with) seem to regard almost as a separate breed.

359 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:36:07am

Bummer...
Abducted Italian activist slain in Gaza

A pro-Palestinian activist from Italy who had been abducted by an extremist group in the Gaza Strip was found strangled to death early Friday, the first such slaying of a foreigner in the coastal territory ruled by the militant group Hamas.

The body of Vittorio Arrigoni, 36, was discovered by Hamas security forces in an empty house in Gaza City a day after he had been seized, officials said. Arrigoni had been strangled with a plastic handcuff strip, said Khalil Abu Shamala, director of Al-Damir Association for Human Rights, who went to the scene with security officials. His head was bloodied, apparently from being beaten before he was killed.

“It seems that he was subjected to torture,” Abu Shamala said in a telephone interview. “I have seen many bodies during the intifada and after assassinations by Israeli soldiers, but I was totally shocked when I saw the way they killed him.”

360 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:36:45am

re: #358 thedopefishlives

Pardon me. She's a French Canadian, which many Canadians (at least the ones I joke around with) seem to regard almost as a separate breed.

Zere's no Canada
Like French Canada
It ze best Canada
In ze land

Ze ozher Canada
Is a bullshit Canada
If you lived here for a day
You'd understand

361 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:37:51am

re: #358 thedopefishlives

Pardon me. She's a French Canadian, which many Canadians (at least the ones I joke around with) seem to regard almost as a separate breed.

Okay... it's not just Canadians... most Quebecois consider themselves as a separate breed. Most French consider them as barbarians who can't speak proper French.

362 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:39:03am

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

Okay... it's not just Canadians... most Quebecois consider themselves as a separate breed. Most French consider them as barbarians who can't speak proper French.

Really. I never knew that.

363 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:39:54am

Strip clubs in Montreal RULE!!

364 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:40:15am

Montana Governor (D) takes red hot VETO brand to Tea Party legislation:[Link: www.greatfallstribune.com...]

365 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:40:39am

re: #355 lawhawk

I saw the Master of Puppets tour in Indy. They were touring with Van Halen's Monsters of Rock.

366 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:42:25am

re: #365 RogueOne

I saw the Master of Puppets tour in Indy. They were touring with Van Halen's Monsters of Rock.

Saw that. And Kingdom Come is the worst band in history.

367 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:43:37am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

The guy who claims to be a Palestinian human rights supporter knows what to say to his intended audience - equate the murder of the ISM supporter with the killings of Palestinians at the hands of Israel (which is acting in self defense).

Apparently that human rights guy has never seen the handiwork of Hamas during the Palestinian civil war - when they were throwing Fatah thugs off rooftops, or the bodies of Palestinians who died when Hamas rockets/mortars fell into Gaza instead of Israel, or when Hamas bomb factories blew up in own-goals, to say nothing of all the torture by Hamas of their enemies at any point since Hamas took over.

Guess he knows that to speak of the inhumanity due to Hamas would result in a shortened lifespan (and a violent and tortured end as well).

368 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:43:57am

re: #365 RogueOne

I saw the Master of Puppets tour in Indy. They were touring with Van Halen's Monsters of Rock.

And it was "Meet the Feebles" all over again!

369 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:49:12am

re: #367 lawhawk

It also should highlight the real source of the problem. It's not about Israel or borders or settlements. It's a society built on terrorism and violence. Until that changes the Palestinians will live in misery.

370 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:49:17am

Posted this in the wrong thread before:

Hey - maybe the Republicans can't find one non-loser candidate from among their entire stock of politicians, but they can try to prevent Obama from being able to get elected.

State & Local
Arizona Legislature OKs Presidential 'Birther' Bill

PHOENIX -- The Arizona Legislature gave final approval late Thursday night to a proposal that would require President Obama and other presidential candidates to prove they are U.S. citizens before their names can appear on the state's ballot.

371 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:49:23am

re: #364 prairiefire

He vetoed 20 and 10 "amendatory vetoes". Republicans picked up a ton of seats in the last election, sounds like the gov might be taking it a bit personally.

372 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:51:34am

April 15. Silly/Awesome song about taxes time.

Youtube Video
373 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:52:01am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

It also should highlight the real source of the problem. It's not about Israel or borders or settlements. It's a society built on terrorism and violence. Until that changes the Palestinians will live in misery.

Didn't the Palestinians elect Hamas to some of the seats in their gubment?

374 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:52:36am

re: #372 Varek Raith

April 15. Silly/Awesome song about taxes time.

[Video]

Tax day isn't until Monday.

375 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:52:38am

re: #362 thedopefishlives

Really. I never knew that.

Youtube Video
376 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:54:21am

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

"what the hell, she goes on at 10 anyway" LOL

377 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:55:19am

re: #374 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tax day isn't until Monday.

Close enough.
:P

378 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:58:16am

Later gators.
Be vewy, vewy quiet, I'm job hunting.

379 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:59:07am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

It also should highlight the real source of the problem. It's not about Israel or borders or settlements. It's a society built on terrorism and violence. Until that changes the Palestinians will live in misery.

Nahh

They'll be fine as soon as the state of Israel is abolished

At that time, the Palestinians will be welcomed into to the Arab community and given equal status there, much like they are right now!!

right ,,, Right ?? RIGHT!?!?!

Bueller!!

380 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 7:59:11am

re: #378 Varek Raith

Later gators.
Be vewy, vewy quiet, I'm job hunting.

Find me one while you're at it.

381 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:00:04am

re: #379 sattv4u2

Nahh

They'll be fine as soon as the state of Israel is abolished

At that time, the Palestinians will be welcomed into to the Arab community and given equal status there, much like they are right now!!

right ,,, Right ?? RIGHT!?!?!

Bueller!!

Egypt should build a wall to keep them out!! Wait...

382 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:00:08am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

It was never about settlements. Camp David showed that settlements could be transferred.

Gaza's disengagement showed it isn't about land for peace either - since Gaza is fully in Palestinian control. They, instead of using it to build a terror infrastructure.

No, it reveals that the Palestinian leadership's intentions is to establish a Palestinian state to supplant Israel - Hamas overtly refuses to accept Israel's existence, Fatah takes a longer view and pays lip service to diplomacy, all while undermining Israel at every opportunity and playing the triangle offense with other terror groups that incessantly attack Israel.

383 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:01:47am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

It also should highlight the real source of the problem. It's not about Israel or borders or settlements. It's a society built on terrorism and violence. Until that changes the Palestinians will live in misery.

I think the best thing we can hope for is an Egyptian style revolution, although the Palestinians have to know what kind of animals their leaders are. Who would be brave enough to rise against them?

384 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:06:27am

re: #383 marjoriemoon

I think the best thing we can hope for is an Egyptian style revolution, although the Palestinians have to know what kind of animals their leaders are. Who would be brave enough to rise against them?

The Muslim Brotherhood... worked in Egypt.

385 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:06:49am

re: #382 lawhawk

No, it reveals that the Palestinian leadership's intentions is to establish a Palestinian state to supplant Israel - Hamas overtly refuses to accept Israel's existence,

I am not very sure about that, I am of the belief that there are people in Palestine that make money off the production of weapons and the conflict. The traffickers wouldn't be need if there was a one state solution. I kind of think that there are people on both sides to some extent who like the way things are and want to keep it that way.

There was a Star Trek movie about such a situation where the Federation and the Klingons were going to have a peace treaty but upper brass on both sides tried to undermine it.

386 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:09:22am

re: #385 The Yankee

I kind of think that there are people on both sides to some extent who like the way things are and want to keep it that way.

Really? Can you name some of these Israelis that "like" having their schoolchildren subjected to daily attacks?

There was a Star Trek movie about such a situation where the Federation and the Klingons were going to have a peace treaty but upper brass on both sides tried to undermine it

You do realize that was a TV show

This is real life. Again, just ask some of those Israeli children!

387 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:10:54am

re: #386 sattv4u2

Star Trek was the catalyst for us having cell phones. TELL ME I'M WRONG!!
/

388 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:11:23am

re: #385 The Yankee

I am not very sure about that, I am of the belief that there are people in Palestine that make money off the production of weapons and the conflict. The traffickers wouldn't be need if there was a one state solution. I kind of think that there are people on both sides to some extent who like the way things are and want to keep it that way.

There was a Star Trek movie about such a situation where the Federation and the Klingons were going to have a peace treaty but upper brass on both sides tried to undermine it.

And this is not fucking Star Trek, this is reality, and do you have some links to anything proving your assertions? Or did you just make this up?

389 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:11:34am

Didn't we talk about this lady when this happened?

Detroit mother jailed after standoff
[Link: detnews.com...]

The state made her out to be a home-schooling anti-vaccination nut who was refusing to give her autistic child needed meds. CPS tries to take her kid, she flips out, a gun gets waved, shots fired, SWAT team shows up and she gives herself up after 10 hours.

Fast forward to yesterday and:

Officials say no need to medicate Maryanne Godboldo's daugther, but she remains in custody
[Link: www.mlive.com...]


Godboldo went to a center looking for help for her daughter last year, after the child began experiencing behavioral problems in the wake of immunization shots. The child was placed on psychotropic drugs. But Godboldo says she took her daughter off the drugs after they worsened the child's condition. The mother then consulted with other physicians to develop alternative treatments.

One physician who has worked with the family recently told MLive Detroit that the treatments were working.

Still, CPS worker Mia Wenk has testified that she filed claims of multiple charges of neglect against Godboldo in March, only two weeks after taking the case. She also requested that the state take custody of Godboldo's child. This soon led to the standoff.

Since then, the child has remained in CPS custody—but, again, without being administered the very medication they claimed she so desperately had to have. And by all reports, she's been just fine.

390 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:11:49am

re: #385 The Yankee

I am not very sure about that, I am of the belief that there are people in Palestine that make money off the production of weapons and the conflict. The traffickers wouldn't be need if there was a one state solution. I kind of think that there are people on both sides to some extent who like the way things are and want to keep it that way.

There was a Star Trek movie about such a situation where the Federation and the Klingons were going to have a peace treaty but upper brass on both sides tried to undermine it.

Except that this isn't Hollywood. It's real life.

The Arabs have been given many chances through many peace talks to make peace with Israel and each time the answer is met with violence. Oslo, The Wye Accords, Madrid, Camp David, the Road Map.

391 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:12:42am

re: #390 marjoriemoon

Except that this isn't Hollywood. It's real life.

The Arabs have been given many chances through many peace talks to make peace with Israel and each time the answer is met with violence. Oslo, The Wye Accords, Madrid, Camp David, the Road Map.

The Klingons never attended any of those!!

392 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:14:07am

re: #391 sattv4u2

The Klingons never attended any of those!!

hehe Indeed, they were left out. Maybe that's the problem!

393 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:14:10am

re: #386 sattv4u2

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

re: #390 marjoriemoon

Those comments by "The Yankee" are about as naive and juvenile as anything I have EVER heard about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict.

394 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:14:42am

re: #384 Walter L. Newton

The Muslim Brotherhood... worked in Egypt.


Poll: 60% of Egyptians support peace with Israel

WASHINGTON - Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state, a study conducted by the United Nations-affiliated International Peace Institute shows.

The pollsters, who interviewed 615 Egyptian citizens over the phone, found that "Maintaining and advancing peace with Israel has far wider appeal than a rupture in relations."

The poll, which was published in the Wall Street Journal on Thursday, also asserts that the Egyptians are not in a rush to establish an Islamist government. According to the report, if elections were held today, Egypt's former Foreign Minister Amr Moussa, who heads the Arab League, would win 37% of the presidential votes.

Mohamed Tantawi, who heads the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, would get 16% of the votes, and Ahmed Zewail, a Nobel-prize winning chemist would get 12% of the votes.

Generally, 80% said that they view Moussa favorably, as opposed to the 10% who have a favorable impression of Mohammed Badie, the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Moreover, the study shows that while 38% of the respondents said they support the Muslim Brotherhood, nearly 50% said they favor the secular Wafd Party. The Muslim Brotherhood already announced that it does not intend to prop up a presidential candidate for the elections, which are expected to take place in September.

Moussa said last month that he plans to keep the peace with Israel if elected to be president. "We as Egyptians have a responsibility to lay the foundations for peace... We cannot rebuild Egypt... while adopting an adventurous foreign policy," he said in a speech at a Cairo cultural center. He added that as Egyptians, "we would be kidding ourselves" if they didn't recognize Israel as a state.

Meanwhile, the Muslim Brotherhood stated recently that any changes to the peace accord would depend on the demands of the Egyptian people.

395 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:15:28am

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

re: #390 marjoriemoon

Those comments by "The Yankee" are about as naive and juvenile as anything I have EVER heard about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict.

Truly. I don't understand why Israel consistently gets blamed for defending itself or seeking justice for its citizens who are murdered.

396 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:16:13am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state,

Thats a helluva BUT!

I wonder how for the 60% number would drop if that BUT was eliminated from the equation

397 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:16:52am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

re: #396 sattv4u2

Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state,

Thats a helluva BUT!

I wonder how for FAR the 60% number would drop if that BUT was eliminated from the equation


pimf

398 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:16:56am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

CAIRO — In post-revolutionary Egypt, where hope and confusion collide in the daily struggle to build a new nation, religion has emerged as a powerful political force, following an uprising that was based on secular ideals. The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group once banned by the state, is at the forefront, transformed into a tacit partner with the military government that many fear will thwart fundamental changes.

As the best organized and most extensive opposition movement in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was expected to have an edge in the contest for influence. But what surprises many is its link to a military that vilified it.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Touche'

399 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:17:35am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

WASHINGTON - Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state, a study conducted by the United Nations-affiliated International Peace Institute shows.

The pollsters, who interviewed 615 Egyptian citizens over the phone, found that "Maintaining and advancing peace with Israel has far wider appeal than a rupture in relations."

Well that may be and if so, it's a good thing, but the Muslim Brotherhood put Hamas together in the first place. I think you were seeing some of that famous Walter sarcasm in that comment.

400 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:18:04am

re: #399 marjoriemoon

Well that may be and if so, it's a good thing, but the Muslim Brotherhood put Hamas together in the first place. I think you were seeing some of that famous Walter sarcasm in that comment.

Ya think?

401 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:19:48am

re: #386 sattv4u2

It was just an example......If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel. And between the plot to blow up the Mosque and the assassination of the Prime Minister of Yitzhak Rabin I think that there are a number of people on both sides that rather have things stay the way that they are.
And yea I think it is mainly the Palestine that does most of the action to keep things the way they are. My point is I don't think either side wants to win by way of war or treaty.

402 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:20:48am

re: #384 Walter L. Newton

The Muslim Brotherhood... worked in Egypt.

A bit older, but there's also this"

Posted at 10:50 AM ET, 02/10/2011

These 
results
 are 
from 
the 
343 
randomly 
selected 
interviews 
landline 
and
cell 
phone
–
enough
 to
 be representative
‐‐
completed
 so 
far in
 Cairo
 and
Alexandria,
 from
 last Saturday 
through 
Tuesday. 
The 
poll 
was
funded
 by
 The Washington 
Institute
 for 
Near
 East 
Policy.


Key 
Findings:

This 
is
 not 
an 
Islamic 
uprising. 
The 
Muslim 
Brotherhood 
is 
"approved"
by
 just 
15%, 
and 
its 
leaders 
get
 barely 1%
 in
 a 
presidential 
straw
 vote. 
Asked 
to
 pick
 national
 priorities, 
just
 12% 
choose 
shariah 
over
 national 
power, democracy,
or
 economic 
development. 
Asked
 to 
explain
 the 
uprising, 
economic
 conditions,
corruption,
and unemployment 
(30‐40% 
each) 
far
 outpace 
"regime
 not 
Islamic 
enough" 
(7%).

Surprisingly, 
asked 
two
 different 
ways
 about 
the
 peace 
treaty 
with 
Israel,
 more
 support
 it 
(37%)
 than
 oppose it 
(22%). 
Only 
18% 
approve
 of
 either 
Hamas 
or 
Iran. 
And 
a
 mere 
5% 
say 
the 
uprising
 occurred 
because
 the regime 
is 
"too
 pro-Israel."

403 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:21:01am

Heh. Conservatives are freaking out that Huntsman actually respects Obama.

They actually pull the "Well if you love Obama so much why not campaign for him", in response to Huntsman calling Obama a good leader.

404 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:21:06am

I promise... I'll leave everyone alone as soon as I get an email form Kaiser... they royally fucked something up this morning and I am waiting to fix it, when they are ready... these idiots have never heard of CHANGE CONTROL... "you idiots, you don't add columns to tables without checking with me first..." I hate end users that know just enough about programming to fuck things up.

405 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:21:29am

re: #400 Walter L. Newton

Ya think?

Amazing that I recognized it since I'm still on my first morning cup of Joe!

406 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:21:33am

re: #401 The Yankee

It was just an example...If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel. And between the plot to blow up the Mosque and the assassination of the Prime Minister of Yitzhak Rabin I think that there are a number of people on both sides that rather have things stay the way that they are.
And yea I think it is mainly the Palestine that does most of the action to keep things the way they are. My point is I don't think either side wants to win by way of war or treaty.

I think the tried that once and Israel doubled in size.

407 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:21:46am

re: #401 The Yankee

I really hope that was just an awkwardly written post, or this morning may be a little rough for you.

408 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:22:10am

re: #396 sattv4u2

Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state,

Thats a helluva BUT!

I wonder how for the 60% number would drop if that BUT was eliminated from the equation

I would guess the number would drop a lot.

409 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:22:55am

re: #407 darthstar

I really hope that was just an awkwardly written post, or this morning may be a little rough for you.

You're a bit late to the party.:)

410 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:22:59am

re: #401 The Yankee

It was just an example...If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel. And between the plot to blow up the Mosque and the assassination of the Prime Minister of Yitzhak Rabin I think that there are a number of people on both sides that rather have things stay the way that they are.
And yea I think it is mainly the Palestine that does most of the action to keep things the way they are. My point is I don't think either side wants to win by way of war or treaty.

And example of what... a Star Trek episode? "You think there are a number of people on both sides that rather have things stay the way that they are."

All you're doing is stating uneducated opinions which you can't back up with anything more than an example from Star Trek. Bullshit.

411 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:23:17am

re: #401 The Yankee

It was just an example...If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel.

Sorry, but you really ARE naive

The Arabs like things just the way they are

They have the Palestinians to use as fodder against Israel, keeping Israel off balance and occupied and (most importantly) a target for worldwide blame for their "treatment" of the poor downtrodden Palis

At the same time, those Arab nations risk ZERO harm to it's own peoples from Israel, which btw would crush any Arab coalition attack

412 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:23:20am

re: #385 The Yankee

Well, since you mention Star Trek, let's put this in terms you might be familiar with:

You're referring to Star Trek VI, the Undiscovered Country - which had a Klingon leader who was willing to take the risk (and put his own life on the line) to carry out a peace deal with the Federation. He was murdered by confederates of a Klingon opposed to peace who came aboard to assassinate the Klingon leader. Kirk, Spock, and Capt. Sulu came to the rescue and saved the peace deal at Khitomer.

So, if we're going to play parallels, who among the Palestinian leaders is willing to risk their life for peace with Israel.

Here's the very short answer:

None.

Arafat refused when he was given the opportunity for a peace deal with Israel. Abbas has refused when offered a similar deal. Neither provided a counterproposal.

No one else among the Palestinians is going to risk their lives for peace. Israelis have more than once put their lives on the line for peace - Rabin was assassinated for his role in Oslo - but the Israelis have held up their end of the bargain. Palestinians continually refuse to adhere to their obligations, refusing to stop incitement to violence and indoctrinating their children to hate Israel and refuse to accept a 2-state solution. Hamas is even more extreme in their refusals to accept Oslo, a 2-state solution, or accepting Israel's existence.

So, tell me again how exactly Israel is thwarting peace here? By defending itself against incessant attacks that average out to a kassam, mortar, or missile every day by attacking those who carry out those attacks?

413 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:23:33am

re: #405 marjoriemoon

Amazing that I recognized it since I'm still on my first morning cup of Joe!

I like you... most of the time :)

414 McSpiff  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:23:41am

re: #396 sattv4u2

Some 60% of Egyptians support the peace treaty with Israel – as long as an independent Palestinian state is established alongside the Jewish state,

Thats a helluva BUT!

I wonder how for the 60% number would drop if that BUT was eliminated from the equation

I can't say I find it that unreasonable... I mean I'd say it needs to be a peaceful, democratic, independent Palestinian state, but I haven't heard anyone (that I half respect) arguing against a two state solution eventually. Obviously the terror groups like Hamas aren't going for that, but I think at this point its pretty clear that any peace will be in spite of those groups, not because of them.

Honestly I'd be more worried if Egyptians were in support of a one state solution... because that sure as shit won't be Israel they have in mind.

415 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:24:09am

re: #401 The Yankee

It was just an example...If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel. And between the plot to blow up the Mosque and the assassination of the Prime Minister of Yitzhak Rabin I think that there are a number of people on both sides that rather have things stay the way that they are.
And yea I think it is mainly the Palestine that does most of the action to keep things the way they are. My point is I don't think either side wants to win by way of war or treaty.

You would be wrong there. The Arabs are united in attacking Israel. Read the papers lately? Where do you think they're getting their arsenal? Why is Israel trying to get rid of the smuggling tunnels built under apt buildings and schools?

Israel has long resigned itself to a two state solution not the Palestinians, but they can't even get to that place.

416 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:24:49am

re: #412 lawhawk

Well, since you mention Star Trek, let's put this in terms you might be familiar with:

[snip]

Lawhawk... don't egg him/her on. Geeeessshhh.

417 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:24:54am

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

They give database write access to anyone? "That's okay...we got this guy up in the mountains of Colorado who can fix it."...

418 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:25:10am

re: #401 The Yankee

Israelis arrested Rabin's assassin and sentenced him to life in prison and previously outlawed Kach and other extremist Israeli groups. Israel prosecuted the plotters intent upon blowing up the Dome of the Rock.

Palestinians glorify terrorists who murder kids. Palestinians name streets, roads, schools after terrorists.

See the difference?

419 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:25:50am

re: #416 Walter L. Newton

I'm bored - and need to stretch out the troll hammer muscles...

420 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:26:08am

re: #411 sattv4u2

It was just an example...If the arabs wanted this to end they would unite again and attack Israel.

Sorry, but you really ARE naive

The Arabs like things just the way they are

They have the Palestinians to use as fodder against Israel, keeping Israel off balance and occupied and (most importantly) a target for worldwide blame for their "treatment" of the poor downtrodden Palis

At the same time, those Arab nations risk ZERO harm to it's own peoples from Israel, which btw would crush any Arab coalition attack

Yea I agree with that. But Israel Is not going to give up any land and they are not going to turn it into one state so how can it end?

421 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:27:04am

re: #420 The Yankee

Yea I agree with that. But Israel Is not going to give up any land and they are not going to turn it into one state so how can it end?

Israel has ALREADY given up land. How did that work out for them?

422 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:27:04am

re: #413 Walter L. Newton

I like you... most of the time :)

Awwww (((hugs and kisses)))

423 McSpiff  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:27:18am

re: #420 The Yankee

Yea I agree with that. But Israel Is not going to give up any land and they are not going to turn it into one state so how can it end?

You do know that Israel has given up land, and under the right circumstances probably will again, right? Please tell me you know this.

424 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:27:30am

re: #420 The Yankee

Yea I agree with that. But Israel Is not going to give up any land and they are not going to turn it into one state so how can it end?

I thought they gave back land they took over after the 6 day war. (I think it was the 6 day war)

425 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:28:21am

re: #420 The Yankee

Yea I agree with that. But Israel Is not going to give up any land and they are not going to turn it into one state so how can it end?

Step 1
Palis STOP bombing Israeli children
Step 2
Pali officially recognize the State of Israel
Step 3
Palis accept the land Israel has ALREADY given up
Step 4
Next time theres a peace accord, the Palis actually abide by it

426 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:28:52am

re: #423 McSpiff

You do know that Israel has given up land, and under the right circumstances probably will again, right? Please tell me you know this.

Yes sorry I should of said any more land.

427 McSpiff  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:28:55am

re: #415 marjoriemoon

You would be wrong there. The Arabs are united in attacking Israel. Read the papers lately? Where do you think they're getting their arsenal? Why is Israel trying to get rid of the smuggling tunnels built under apt buildings and schools?

Israel has long resigned itself to a two state solution not the Palestinians, but they can't even get to that place.

I'd be careful when saying "The Arabs" all do anything. As we've seen lately, there's an amazing lack of unity within most Arab countries, let alone between them. Strange times we live in.

428 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:29:36am

re: #426 The Yankee

Yes sorry I should of said any more land.

Thing is, they would at least be willing to consider and negotiate giving up more land if it truly meant an end to the whole affair. Everybody here knows that it's the people commonly referred to as Palestinians that are the obstinate ones.

429 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:30:03am

re: #423 McSpiff

You do know that Israel has given up land, and under the right circumstances probably will again, right? Please tell me you know this.

The Federation didn't give any to the Klingons, didn't, so (s)he doesn;t think the Israelis have either

(see #385 for the reference)

430 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:30:09am

re: #420 The Yankee

I call BS - Israel has more than once stated that it would make concessions on land -

1) Sinai was returned in the Camp David Accords;
2) Israel withdrew from Lebanon following its invasion of Southern Lebanon to flush the PLO out of the territory;
3) Israel withdrew from much of the West Bank under Oslo - giving civil administrative control over to the Palestinians from 1994 onwards;
4) Israel withdrew from all of Gaza in 2005 unilaterally - Palestinians have full control over Gaza.

Separate from that, in 2000 Israel offered more than 90 percent of the West Bank, and land swaps, but Arafat refused.

A similar deal was refused by Abbas.

Israel has repeatedly shown a willingness to swap land for peace, but the Palestinians have repeatedly shown no intention of taking land for peace. To them, it's all or nothing.=

431 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:30:16am

If we're going to base foreign policy on a tv show I would suggest we use "Super Nanny". The world needs a little tough love. 2nd choice would be "V". It's only a matter of time before they aliens jump from anal probes to an all out attack and we're not at all prepared.

432 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:30:46am

The cease fire is going as predicted....
Sirens heard as 2 Grad rockets explode in Ashdod area


IDF sources said they predicted that while the cease-fire had gone into effect, it would likely be limited in time.

“We succeeded in postponing a large-scale conflict with Hamas but that conflict is likely inevitable,” one senior officer said on Monday.

433 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:31:00am

re: #403 Obdicut

Heh. Conservatives are freaking out that Huntsman actually respects Obama.

They actually pull the "Well if you love Obama so much why not campaign for him", in response to Huntsman calling Obama a good leader.

See, this is why I think Huntsman's playing the long game. Those letters make him look gracious, reasonable, and sane. That's a death sentence in the 2011/2012 GOP, and surely the people around him know that. But they won't hurt him as much once Obama is out of office.

My guess is that he'll end up sitting out this next election and then, should Obama win a second term, spend those four years increasing his media profile as a statesman and as a reasonable, likeable guy. Then he'll make a run for it in 2016. At least that's what I'd like to see. *shrug*

434 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:31:04am

re: #417 darthstar

They give database write access to anyone? "That's okay...we got this guy up in the mountains of Colorado who can fix it."...

The problem is this application was a end user creation that got out of hand, and four years ago, they found me to turn a bunch of batch processed scripts into a real live application with a GUI and all the bells and whistles that make something a real application.

And over those years, I have added functionality and modifications, and a simple handful of scripts have turned into about 5000 lines of code.

Think is, they still know how to access tables and modify structures and simple things like that. They don't know shit about coding, but off and on, they think they can just add something to a table and it will magically appear all through the application.

I get an email thins morning... "we added this and that "field" to this and that table but we are getting error messages and don't see this or that data... what happened?"

What happened... you woke up and went to work... that's what happened. Yea, I don't mind making a few extra bucks, but I get no satisfaction making extra billable hours because someone is fucking with my system. Cheap way to pick up a buck.

That's why I don't make a good contractor... I'm too honest and give much more than I ever should.

435 McSpiff  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:31:41am

re: #426 The Yankee

Yes sorry I should of said any more land.

Which land and under which circumstances do you think should be given up? And for what in return? Are you familiar with any of the failed land-for-peace deals?

Honestly, your posts on the topic strike me as being roughly at the level of a senior in Highschool, maybe early university. If that's the case you might be better off asking for background info from some of the posters here instead of trying to argue any particular point with them.

436 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:33:43am

re: #434 Walter L. Newton


That's why I don't make a good contractor... I'm too honest and give much more than I ever should.

You'd actually be surprised how far that'll get you in the world of software contracting. Just as long as you're careful to guard yourself so the monkeys don't take your product and then stiff you, as has happened to my brother-in-law a few times.

437 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:34:18am

re: #428 thedopefishlives

The thing is though even if that was coming to an head then that Prime Minister not be re-elected. Or another element that the Palestinians government dont control could attack Israel giving the Israel a need to respond.

My point is even if Hamas does try to make a peace treaty that will give another terrorist group the opportunity for a power grab.

438 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:34:35am

re: #433 Lidane

See, this is why I think Huntsman's playing the long game. Those letters make him look gracious, reasonable, and sane. That's a death sentence in the 2011/2012 GOP, and surely the people around him know that. But they won't hurt him as much once Obama is out of office.

My guess is that he'll end up sitting out this next election and then, should Obama win a second term, spend those four years increasing his media profile as a statesman and as a reasonable, likeable guy. Then he'll make a run for it in 2016. At least that's what I'd like to see. *shrug*

Agreed, I think the reason we're seeing a serious lack of "reasonable" candidates it that they've all read the atmosphere and realize that their kind of candidacy this time around simply wouldn't go anywhere. At least not with the party far-right wing, and that's really who's going to have the final say this primary season. Better to simply sit it out, make small waves, and let the nutbars completely discredit themselves.

439 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:34:40am

re: #436 thedopefishlives

You'd actually be surprised how far that'll get you in the world of software contracting. Just as long as you're careful to guard yourself so the monkeys don't take your product and then stiff you, as has happened to my brother-in-law a few times.

We don't need to hear about your brother-in-laws stiffys!

440 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:34:41am

re: #425 sattv4u2

That'd be more effective without the emotional manipulation of 'bombing children'...granted, some children have been killed (how many? I'm sure someone here has the numbers handy)...I think a few were killed in the bus blast a few weeks ago. But it is hyperbolic to imply that they are targeting children, which is what you implied.

442 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:35:00am

re: #427 McSpiff

I'd be careful when saying "The Arabs" all do anything. As we've seen lately, there's an amazing lack of unity within most Arab countries, let alone between them. Strange times we live in.

True, but I was referring to the puppet emperors. Syria, Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood specifically. I should have worded it better.

443 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:35:11am

re: #439 sattv4u2

We don't need to hear about your brother-in-laws stiffys!

WHACK!

444 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:35:51am

re: #433 Lidane

It's also an eye to the NE/West Coast, where the GOP does play more moderate - and where even the TP backed candidates have shown themselves to be more moderate than the TP wished for (think Brown in MA, etc.)

The problem is that by the time the primaries roll around in the NE/West Coast, the die will have been cast from IA and others will fall by the wayside.

It's why I had hoped that Rudy's strategy of ignoring the early primaries to focus on FL would work in 2008 - but it failed spectacularly. It was a strategy to push the right wing aside and allow the moderates a chance to thrive.

445 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:36:07am

re: #440 darthstar

That'd be more effective without the emotional manipulation of 'bombing children'...granted, some children have been killed (how many? I'm sure someone here has the numbers handy)...I think a few were killed in the bus blast a few weeks ago. But it is hyperbolic to imply that they are targeting children, which is what you implied.

When they aim rockets to land near schools, I think it's NOT

Unless they were targeting the janitors!

446 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:36:17am

re: #440 darthstar

That'd be more effective without the emotional manipulation of 'bombing children'...granted, some children have been killed (how many? I'm sure someone here has the numbers handy)...I think a few were killed in the bus blast a few weeks ago. But it is hyperbolic to imply that they are targeting children, which is what you implied.

True. Hamas only HIDES behind women and children.

447 McSpiff  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:36:53am

re: #442 marjoriemoon

True, but I was referring to the puppet emperors. Syria, Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood specifically. I should have worded it better.

And that I agree completely with of course. I just think any talk of Israeli-Arab peace talks at the moment is a bit crazy, since those sitting at the table may (hopefully?) find themselves in exile shortly. This sucks for Israel of course, but maybe, just maybe the "new arab" world will be slightly better to deal with. Gotta keep hope alive.

448 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:37:23am

re: #446 Cannadian Club Akbar

True. Hamas only HIDES behind women and children.

Well, at least you added women. I like women.

449 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:38:02am

re: #446 Cannadian Club Akbar

True. Hamas only HIDES behind women and children.

Yep, Hamas uses civilians as shields, but believes Israeli children are valid targets. Why? Because, in their warped world view, Israeli children are future soldiers, fulfilling the part of international law restricting "freedom fighting" to military targets.

450 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:38:25am

re: #440 darthstar

re: #445 sattv4u2

When they aim rockets to land near schools and suicide bombers target pizza parlors, long known to attract kids, I think it's NOT

Unless they were targeting the janitors and dough flippers!

451 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:39:08am

re: #449 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep, Hamas uses civilians as shields, but believes Israeli children are valid targets. Why? Because, in their warped world view, Israeli children are future soldiers, fulfilling the part of international law restricting "freedom fighting" to military targets.

Bolded because it's true.

452 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:39:11am

re: #445 sattv4u2

When they aim rockets to land near schools, I think it's NOT

Unless they were targeting the janitors!

I would think the janitors are Palestinians. And those rockets aren't aimed, per se. Except in a general direction. If they were targeted, it would show that the terrorists really hate open fields more than anything.

453 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:40:02am

re: #452 darthstar

I would think the janitors are Palestinians

Umm,, why?? Israelis don't so manual labor??!?!?

454 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:40:04am

re: #437 The Yankee

The thing is though even if that was coming to an head then that Prime Minister not be re-elected. Or another element that the Palestinians government dont control could attack Israel giving the Israel a need to respond.

My point is even if Hamas does try to make a peace treaty that will give another terrorist group the opportunity for a power grab.

You really don't understand this. Hamas we elected by some 98% of the people. What is that? So was Castro and so was Achmedinajad (or similar numbers). Do you understand what that means in terms of "fair electoral process?" Don't be naive. There isn't one.

They hold their own people captive. What hope does Israel have?

455 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:40:08am

re: #451 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bolded because it's true.

In the terrorist eyes. Forgot that part.

456 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:40:37am

re: #444 lawhawk

It's also an eye to the NE/West Coast, where the GOP does play more moderate - and where even the TP backed candidates have shown themselves to be more moderate than the TP wished for (think Brown in MA, etc.)

The problem is that by the time the primaries roll around in the NE/West Coast, the die will have been cast from IA and others will fall by the wayside.

It's why I had hoped that Rudy's strategy of ignoring the early primaries to focus on FL would work in 2008 - but it failed spectacularly. It was a strategy to push the right wing aside and allow the moderates a chance to thrive.

To be fair, Rudy's strategy failed because it was Rudy. Heh.

In any case, I agree that Huntsman is sending signals to the moderates in the NE/West, but I would think that his people aren't blind and can see the direction the current GOP is going in. I mean, people find that AZ birther bill reasonable, and they think Trump is serious. Better to let all the Bad Crazy play itself out now then run in 2016. That's my thought, anyhow.

457 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:40:58am

re: #454 marjoriemoon

You really don't understand this. Hamas we elected by some 98% of the people. What is that? So was Castro and so was Achmedinajad (or similar numbers). Do you understand what that means in terms of "fair electoral process?" Don't be naive. There isn't one.

They hold their own people captive. What hope does Israel have?

98%? Big deal. Saddam always got 99% of the vote.
/

458 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:41:05am

re: #440 darthstar

Not exactly hyperbolic.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad and other terror groups have repeatedly targeted Israeli schools and day care centers within range of their weapons (kassams, grads, mortars). The attack on the bus missed killing or wounding several dozen students (1 was critically injured).

Other terror attacks have targeted Israeli children, whether it was snipers firing at children in their cribs, or going back several decades - to Ma'alot.

The terror groups have no problems targeting Israeli children because their justification is that they grow up to serve in the IDF - and therefore are legitimate targets.

It's why Israel has built bomb shelters at those schools and day care centers, and why Israeli playgrounds have bomb shelter structures (using concrete culverts) to provide protection against incoming fire.

459 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:41:21am

re: #453 sattv4u2


I would think the janitors are Palestinians

Umm,, why?? Israelis don't so manual labor??!?!?

I stand corrected. I was assuming a class and social system based on ethnicity. My bad.

460 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:41:42am

re: #455 Cannadian Club Akbar

In the terrorist eyes. Forgot that part.

Yep, and it's been true for years. Hence why they target "soft targets," whether they be buses, nightclubs, schools, etc, but totally avoid military targets.

461 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:41:52am

re: #436 thedopefishlives

You'd actually be surprised how far that'll get you in the world of software contracting. Just as long as you're careful to guard yourself so the monkeys don't take your product and then stiff you, as has happened to my brother-in-law a few times.

No... I've worked as a contractor.. and I get too attached to a project and it's success... I'm not happy just coming in, doing my job, and then leaving. And that doesn't translate to more billable hours. I tend to even work on my own to make sure deliverables are finished on time, and correctly... contacting firms don't like people who do more than they are being paid for.

That's why I like to work for myself. I advertise on Craigslist and have a few people drop my name around town when needed.

I'd rather be working 40 hours a week as a full time employee in some IT department, but that hasn't happened in the last 5-6 years... so I do the grocery store thing, do the part time/some time programming, and craft some jewelry... I keep busy... and happy.

462 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:43:07am

re: #457 Cannadian Club Akbar

98%? Big deal. Saddam always got 99% of the vote.
/

Helps when you've got armed men standing by the poll, going "So, who are you voting for, 'friend'?"

463 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:43:43am

re: #462 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Helps when you've got armed men standing by the poll, going "So, who are you voting for, 'friend'?"

I thought we were talking about the Middle East?

464 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:44:01am

re: #462 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Helps when you've got armed men standing by the poll, going "So, who are you voting for, 'friend'?"

So, like our unions?
//I will get hate mail for that smart assed remark!!

465 darthstar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:44:04am

Okay...time to pack for Tahoe and get some spring skiing in. Play nice everyone. Enjoy the war. Watch the pundits talk about the black guy, and Trump say he has no problem with black guys. Remember that 90% of what the House passes is simply an exercise in publicity and none of it will become policy. And have some fun.

466 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:44:08am

re: #461 Walter L. Newton

I see what you mean. Now me, I do get deeply involved in projects and ensuring their success, but by the same token, I also seem to enjoy the rapid-fire pace of being a consultant. I tend to get bored pretty easily if I get stuck in a rut on the same project for too long, and then my job performance starts to suffer.

467 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:44:39am

re: #447 McSpiff

And that I agree completely with of course. I just think any talk of Israeli-Arab peace talks at the moment is a bit crazy, since those sitting at the table may (hopefully?) find themselves in exile shortly. This sucks for Israel of course, but maybe, just maybe the "new arab" world will be slightly better to deal with. Gotta keep hope alive.

When Robert Gates came to Israel recently and met with Bibi, Barak and Perez, he came first to show our solidarity with Israel and second to "remind" them of the Road Map. He didn't say it, but when I read about it, it brought to mind the chance, slim as it may be, of a possible Arab uprising in the territories. It's a long shot, a huge long shot, but if peace happens, this seems the only way that it could.

468 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:45:35am

re: #464 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, like our unions?
//I will get hate mail for that smart assed remark!!

Oh, yer goin' to hell for that one!

//

469 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:46:06am

re: #454 marjoriemoon

To be clear, Hamas was elected in Gaza by an overwhelming majority, while Fatah won in the West Bank with a majority.

Due to the proportional representation system in place in 2006 - Hamas won an overwhelming majority in the parliament, but the overall vote was roughly 44-41%.

470 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:46:45am

re: #452 darthstar

I would think the janitors are Palestinians. And those rockets aren't aimed, per se. Except in a general direction. If they were targeted, it would show that the terrorists really hate open fields more than anything.

The reason that more Israelis are not killed by these bombardments is that they have shelters everywhere and early warning systems that allow people to get out of the way.

471 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:47:41am

re: #454 marjoriemoon

You really don't understand this. Hamas we elected by some 98% of the people. What is that? So was Castro and so was Achmedinajad (or similar numbers). Do you understand what that means in terms of "fair electoral process?" Don't be naive. There isn't one.

They hold their own people captive. What hope does Israel have?

That doesn't really mean a lot the Egyptian President was a dictator and he got a long with Israel and the west. What I guess I am saying is that it is a Catch 22. I just don't think that the Israeli Military can ever trust Palestine to not form some sort of terrorist group attacking it.
But I don't see other Arabic Governments trying to see an end to this by way of war or help in a peace treaty.

472 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:48:09am

Speaking of early warning systems:

Poll: Donald Trump Beating Entire GOP Field By 9 Points

473 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:49:20am

re: #461 Walter L. Newton

I might be applying for a cashier job next Friday. (they only take applications on Fridays but not today)

474 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:49:26am

re: #466 thedopefishlives

I see what you mean. Now me, I do get deeply involved in projects and ensuring their success, but by the same token, I also seem to enjoy the rapid-fire pace of being a consultant. I tend to get bored pretty easily if I get stuck in a rut on the same project for too long, and then my job performance starts to suffer.

Maybe I've worked for the wrong contacting firms, or something, but I've come up against team leads at the contracting firms telling me I need to up my billable hours, slow down, don't work so efficiently, just do your job and don't get involved in internal matters... and I can't do that.

Once, about 5 years ago, my contract was ending on a Thursday. The day before, Wed. there was a blizzard coming in. I got a room at the hotel in the industrial park, spent my own money to stay there, and I was the ONLY person out of 200 employees who was in the building the next day. We had almost 6 feet of snow... I had to stay another night before I could get home. But I got my tasks done.

The contracting firm let me go, they said I should have tried to have the company renew my contract for a week or so, so I could finish up like a normal person.

475 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:50:08am

re: #472 Lidane

Speaking of early warning systems:

Poll: Donald Trump Beating Entire GOP Field By 9 Points

Funny Ron Paul always wins or leads in polls too. LUAP NOR!!!!

476 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:51:43am

re: #473 Cannadian Club Akbar

I might be applying for a cashier job next Friday. (they only take applications on Fridays but not today)

Good luck... if it's a large supermarket, you will find that it's a real grind, crazy amount of time on your feet, a lot of pressure to be as speedy as you can, and mistake proof, and friendly... aspects that seem polar opposites... can be a real challenge.

477 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:53:01am

re: #474 Walter L. Newton

I haven't done a lot of contracting - being fresh out of school will do that for you - but the guys I have worked with have been a bit more flexible with that. My current company adores me because I was able to get my foot in the door at a major client, just by being myself - highly efficient, very skilled, personable, and dedicated to helping. I suppose it just depends on the nature of the outfit; I've worked mostly for smaller contract/consulting houses with a small staff where everybody knows everybody.

478 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:53:16am

re: #476 Walter L. Newton

Good luck... if it's a large supermarket, you will find that it's a real grind, crazy amount of time on your feet, a lot of pressure to be as speedy as you can, and mistake proof, and friendly... aspects that seem polar opposites... can be a real challenge.

There is also stocking and buffing floors involved. (I've done both) A placed called Aldis.

479 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:53:46am

re: #471 The Yankee

That doesn't really mean a lot the Egyptian President was a dictator and he got a long with Israel and the west. What I guess I am saying is that it is a Catch 22. I just don't think that the Israeli Military can ever trust Palestine to not form some sort of terrorist group attacking it.
But I don't see other Arabic Governments trying to see an end to this by way of war or help in a peace treaty.

The electoral process doesn't work in these regimes. They are dictatorships run by fear and violence. Democracy (majority vote) doesn't work without a constitution that allows all people freedom, among other things. Or doesn't insure a fair election.

The other Arab governments use the Palestinians as pawns against Israel. It started when Israel was declared a state in 1947 and hasn't stopped from there.

480 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:54:30am

re: #472 Lidane

Speaking of early warning systems:

Poll: Donald Trump Beating Entire GOP Field By 9 Points

Wow.

481 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:55:13am

re: #475 Cannadian Club Akbar

Funny Ron Paul always wins or leads in polls too. LUAP NOR!!!

Heh. To be fair, TPM makes the point that this new poll isn't so much a sign of Trump's strength, but of how weak the GOP field is right now. Everyone else sucks, so people are gravitating to Trump because he's rich, famous, and a birther.

482 leftynyc  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:55:54am

re: #58 prairiefire

I also love Ms Schultz. I think she will do a fantastic job leading the DNC.

I can't help but notice that the loudest voices against Planned Parenthood are men and the biggest defenders are women. I also saw that 5 republican senators voted down the bill to defund PP.

483 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:56:14am

re: #481 Lidane

Heh. To be fair, TPM makes the point that this new poll isn't so much a sign of Trump's strength, but of how weak the GOP field is right now. Everyone else sucks, so people are gravitating to Trump because he's rich, famous, and a birther.

All very true. He's building up momentum, while the others sit on the sidelines, probably waiting from some sign from "above" in order to finally throw their hats in the ring.

484 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:57:42am

re: #483 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

All very true. He's building up momentum, while the others sit on the sidelines, probably waiting from some sign from "above" in order to finally throw their hats in the ring.

Romney is already in. Trump won't get past the primaries if he makes it that far.

485 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:58:43am

re: #481 Lidane

Heh. To be fair, TPM makes the point that this new poll isn't so much a sign of Trump's strength, but of how weak the GOP field is right now. Everyone else sucks, so people are gravitating to Trump because he's rich, famous, and a birther.

True but I think it's a bad sign about the mental health of the Republican base. Palin and Trump should not be taken seriously but the wingnuts will do whatever Fox News tells them. It's a very bad sign.

486 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:58:45am

re: #482 leftynyc

I can't help but notice that the loudest voices against Planned Parenthood are men and the biggest defenders are women. I also saw that 5 republican senators voted down the bill to defund PP.

And those five Republican Senators? Three of them were women -- Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe.

487 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:58:46am

New page up.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Happy Pesach to all! I am going to be out of here for the next few days.

488 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:58:52am

re: #482 leftynyc

I can't help but notice that the loudest voices against Planned Parenthood are men and the biggest defenders are women. I also saw that 5 republican senators voted down the bill to defund PP.

So much easier to control the masses if they are poor, overworked, tired and distracted by their numerous children.

The more I think about this, the less I think it is about God or morals, but about the most insidious evil --POWER.

People who can and do limit their children have time to think, relax and form ideas of their own.

POWER mongers wouldn't like that.

489 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:59:21am

re: #484 Cannadian Club Akbar

Romney is already in. Trump won't get past the primaries if he makes it that far.

Romney might as well save his money, he stands no chance in the primaries as is and any run to the far-right will ruin him for the general.

490 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:59:23am

re: #478 Cannadian Club Akbar

There is also stocking and buffing floors involved. (I've done both) A placed called Aldis.

On the Sat/Sun overnights, I run the front end by myself until about 1:30 am, then after the truck comes in... stock the cereal/coffee aisle and then in the morning, at 6:00 pm, go back up front. Between 6:00 and 8:30 am, there are two cashiers running the whole front end. It's turns out to be a very busy night.

491 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:59:37am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

True but I think it's a bad sign about the mental health of the Republican base. Palin and Trump should not be taken seriously but the wingnuts will do whatever Fox News tells them. It's a very bad sign.

It is interesting how much Trump has replaced Palin. She got eclipsed.

492 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 8:59:46am

re: #487 LudwigVanQuixote

New page up.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Happy Pesach to all! I am going to be out of here for the next few days.

Good... luck.

493 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:01:05am

re: #482 leftynyc

I can't help but notice that the loudest voices against Planned Parenthood are men and the biggest defenders are women. I also saw that 5 republican senators voted down the bill to defund PP.

And I'm sure you also noticed that of those five, three are women (Snowe, Collins, and Murkowski - we are so, so lucky she clobbered Erick Erickson's "man crush" Joe Miller).

494 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:01:10am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

True but I think it's a bad sign about the mental health of the Republican base. Palin and Trump should not be taken seriously but the wingnuts will do whatever Fox News tells them. It's a very bad sign.

It's a terrible sign, especially if you're a Republican. The party is literally off the rails at this point. No one with any sense of reason or sanity is going to win.

At this point, the best thing for the GOP is to nominate a birther/crazy person, get curbstomped in 2012, and spend some time in the politiccal wilderness. They desperately need to clean house.

495 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:01:10am

re: #489 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Romney might as well save his money, he stands no chance in the primaries as is and any run to the far-right will ruin him for the general.

I disagree. The Repubs have a pecking order. (the Dems might as well but if they did Hillary would be in right now IMO)

496 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:01:20am

Where's Mitt Romney's Birth Certificate?

Long story short: Mitt Romney still has not produced a "certificate of live birth." And we know for a fact that as a young man he spent years living in a foreign country that looks down on America. A country that is intimately familiar with colonial thinking.

497 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:01:32am

re: #491 Obdicut

It is interesting how much Trump has replaced Palin. She got eclipsed.

Not really that hard. Her poll numbers did their imitation of the Titanic ages ago, her career on life support courtesy of Fox News. If she doesn't jump into the field before too long, even they decide to pull the plug.

498 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:03:10am

re: #496 Killgore Trout

Where's Mitt Romney's Birth Certificate?

hehe When they discover a Black relative in Romney's past, then it will become an issue.

499 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:03:42am

re: #479 marjoriemoon

The electoral process doesn't work in these regimes. They are dictatorships run by fear and violence. Democracy (majority vote) doesn't work without a constitution that allows all people freedom, among other things. Or doesn't insure a fair election.

The other Arab governments use the Palestinians as pawns against Israel. It started when Israel was declared a state in 1947 and hasn't stopped from there.

I totally agree with you on that. I notice more so that Muslim government use jews as scape goats saying that they have magical powers. And blaming them for anything that goes wrong in their country.
I am just saying that, do you think that if there was a peace treaty and a majority of the people in Israeli government and/or military and/or population thought that some arm of Hamas would use it in away to attack again, would they do something about it.
And even if Hamas came to terms with Israel, would there be another terrorist group waiting to jump into the void?

500 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:03:50am

re: #495 Cannadian Club Akbar

I disagree. The Repubs have a pecking order. (the Dems might as well but if they did Hillary would be in right now IMO)

Pecking orders only matter if you've got a sane base that will go along with the party leadership. Right now, you've got a base that's been hijacked by the nutbars of the party, who are openly demanding the leadership give them what they want or be replaced.

501 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:05:22am

re: #500 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pecking orders only matter if you've got a sane base that will go along with the party leadership. Right now, you've got a base that's been hijacked by the nutbars of the party, who are openly demanding the leadership give them what they want or be replaced.

True, but the nutbars will vote for whoever isn't Obama in 2012.

502 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:06:40am

re: #499 The Yankee


And even if Hamas came to terms with Israel, would there be another terrorist group waiting to jump into the void?

Even if Hamas stopped being Hamas, someone else would become Hamas.

503 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:07:16am

re: #501 Cannadian Club Akbar

True, but the nutbars will vote for whoever isn't Obama in 2012.

Yes and no. Looking at Freeper-ville lately, they despise candidates like Huntsman and Romney, and not just for the Mormon thing. They're wealthy elitists and might as well be RINOs. I honestly think that if Romney is the nominee this next time around, the wingnuts will stay home.

504 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:10:49am

re: #499 The Yankee

I totally agree with you on that. I notice more so that Muslim government use jews as scape goats saying that they have magical powers. And blaming them for anything that goes wrong in their country.
I am just saying that, do you think that if there was a peace treaty and a majority of the people in Israeli government and/or military and/or population thought that some arm of Hamas would use it in away to attack again, would they do something about it.
And even if Hamas came to terms with Israel, would there be another terrorist group waiting to jump into the void?

There have been at least 60 years of peace treaties. The first provision of all is that the Palestinians lay down their arms. The Hamas/P.A. split has only been recent (2006). Hamas, created by the Muslim Brotherhood were once Fatah soldiers. That is, "rebels" in Arafat's army. The worst of the two worst.

I'm not sure what you're asking. Should we abandoned peace because there will always be some devil lurking about? If Hamas could be subdued, there would be peace. If the Palestinians had the opportunity for a thriving society with schools, infrastructure, economy, trade, it would mean peace. They can't get there.

505 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:11:42am

I'm gonna have to remember to get a 12 pack of batteries for my camera for when the RNC has their convention here. Heh.

506 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:12:13am

On this day in 1947 Jackie Robinson made his regular season debut for the Brooklyn Dodgers, breaking MLB's color barrier.

507 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:12:24am

re: #501 Cannadian Club Akbar

True, but the nutbars will vote for whoever isn't Obama in 2012.

In the general, yes. In the primaries, they want a candidate who will most closely match their ideals, which at this point is:

- Socially conservative (No abortion, no gay marriage, no gay soldiers)
- "Small government" (No welfare, no "entitlement" programs, no "Obamacare," heavy budget cuts)
- Pro-business (Low taxes, deregulation, pro-fossil fuels)
- Anti-union (Particularly public unions)
- Anti-Obama (Birtherism a big plus, but also hammering him on college transcripts, Ayers, etc)

Any candidate who hits all those is simply not going to go anywhere with the liberal voters and will be distasteful to the independent ones, but that's what the Tea Party will go for because it's all about ideological "purity," not electoral sanity.

508 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:14:27am

re: #500 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pecking orders only matter if you've got a sane base that will go along with the party leadership. Right now, you've got a base that's been hijacked by the nutbars of the party, who are openly demanding the leadership give them what they want or be replaced.

I don't think it's accurate to refer to it as a "hijacking". The nutbars are the majority of the GOP. They have taken over the party fair and square. The nutbars have the wheel, and they have it legitimately.

The truth of the situation is a hell of a lot more frightening than a hijacking. Nearly half the country is comprised of what used to be considered political extremists. They aren't extremists anymore. They are mainstream.

509 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:14:46am

re: #499 The Yankee

Btw, if Israel could have a peace like they have with Jordan and Egypt, that would be plenty enough.

510 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:16:22am

re: #506 Obdicut

On this day in 1947 Jackie Robinson made his regular season debut for the Brooklyn Dodgers, breaking MLB's color barrier.

Braves Atlanta Braves

I'm not concerned with you liking or disliking me..All I ask is that you respect me as a human being - Jackie Robinson [Link: www.iam42.com...] #IAM42

511 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:17:47am

re: #506 Obdicut

On this day in 1947 Jackie Robinson made his regular season debut for the Brooklyn Dodgers, breaking MLB's color barrier.

I have a 1951 Dodgers plaque. Team pic was transferred to a metal plate and a second metal plate has all the names in order, including some named "unknown".

512 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:18:21am

re: #501 Cannadian Club Akbar

True, but the nutbars will vote for whoever isn't Obama in 2012.

No, just being anti-Obama will not suffice. The Tea party also hates RINOS nearly as much as they hate anyone else to the left of them.

McCain faced that problem: the extreme right wing of the party was not happy with his record on social issues and threatened to run their own candidate.

They forced him to take their choice of VP on as a quid-pro-quo for their support.

513 kirkspencer  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:18:30am

re: #494 Lidane

It's a terrible sign, especially if you're a Republican. The party is literally off the rails at this point. No one with any sense of reason or sanity is going to win.

At this point, the best thing for the GOP is to nominate a birther/crazy person, get curbstomped in 2012, and spend some time in the politiccal wilderness. They desperately need to clean house.

I've claimed for years that we're seeing the effect of the zealots taking control of the temple. 2012 will be the "obvious" point, but I think 2016 will be the true test of whether the GOP continues to exist or it gets replaced by a third party yet to be named.

See, a "true believer" will get the 2012 nod, and will lose. The fork is how this is seen by the majority of the GOP's controlling members; a wake up call or one to purge the unbelievers. We'll have good indicators by 2014, and will know by 2016.

514 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:18:34am

re: #508 Fozzie Bear

I don't think it's accurate to refer to it as a "hijacking". The nutbars are the majority of the GOP. They have taken over the party fair and square. The nutbars have the wheel, and they have it legitimately.

The truth of the situation is a hell of a lot more frightening than a hijacking. Nearly half the country is comprised of what used to be considered political extremists. They aren't extremists anymore. They are mainstream.

I like to believe that some are as such, while others are going along simply out of desperation, in hopes that those making the most noise are doing so because they have a real solution to the lack of jobs and economic opportunity. You see it often in popular uprising, people who join movements not so much because they believe in anything being professed by the leaders, but because they've given up on the old order and are hopeful that the "new" one will be better.

515 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:19:44am

get the facts out, tweet, facebook, copy and paste to email.

516 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:23:34am

The Flaws of Breitbartism

And then in 2008, when conservative media was reaching more people and making more money than ever before, the radio waves filled with Rush Limbaugh imitators, right-wing books topping the bestseller lists, Fox News the most popular cable news network in America, Red State up and running at full tilt... how is it that Barack Obama won? It's almost as if the success of conservative media outlets and ideological entertainment isn't the basic driver of American politics. And that, as it's presented in Chapter One, the core worldview of Andrew Breitbart is easily refuted, bombastically phrased nonsense.

Ouch

517 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:24:07am

These small government people are like Romans in the early part of the 1st century, trying to restore the republic.

We have gotten too big, the world is too connected.

What we need is to keep the separation of powers (between government branches and the states), maintain at least a 2 party system, keep people as educated and healthy as they choose to be, maintain the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

518 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:26:05am

re: #504 marjoriemoon


I'm not sure what you're asking. Should we abandoned peace because there will always be some devil lurking about? If Hamas could be subdued, there would be peace. If the Palestinians had the opportunity for a thriving society with schools, infrastructure, economy, trade, it would mean peace. They can't get there.

I am just lead to believe that there is a mentality on both sides that will make this thing never end. Israel has to trust Palestine enough that even if there are rockets coming in that they don't strike back.
And Palestine has to become a place where the group who is the most violent doesn't control the land. And the only way that can happen is if Palestine gets a better economy. Which probably means that Israel would have to give up the embargo or allow more Palestinians to travel. Other wise the only option for Palestinians is working with Hamas in some way.

So basically I am saying Palestine needs a better economy which I think can only happen if Israel loosen some of the rules up for a long period of time and not take the new privileges away even after they being attacked.

519 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:27:51am

re: #518 The Yankee

I am just lead to believe that there is a mentality on both sides that will make this thing never end. Israel has to trust Palestine enough that even if there are rockets coming in that they don't strike back.
And Palestine has to become a place where the group who is the most violent doesn't control the land. And the only way that can happen is if Palestine gets a better economy. Which probably means that Israel would have to give up the embargo or allow more Palestinians to travel. Other wise the only option for Palestinians is working with Hamas in some way.

So basically I am saying Palestine needs a better economy which I think can only happen if Israel loosen some of the rules up for a long period of time and not take the new privileges away even after they being attacked.

*face palm*

520 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:30:38am

re: #518 The Yankee

I am just lead to believe that there is a mentality on both sides that will make this thing never end. Israel has to trust Palestine enough that even if there are rockets coming in that they don't strike back.
And Palestine has to become a place where the group who is the most violent doesn't control the land. And the only way that can happen is if Palestine gets a better economy. Which probably means that Israel would have to give up the embargo or allow more Palestinians to travel. Other wise the only option for Palestinians is working with Hamas in some way.

So basically I am saying Palestine needs a better economy which I think can only happen if Israel loosen some of the rules up for a long period of time and not take the new privileges away even after they being attacked.

And what the fuck is wrong with the mentality that if you're being attacked, you strike back?

Would you just stand around while someone is beating the shit out of you, for no other reason then the fact that you exist?

You're not for real, are you?

521 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:34:16am

So you guys actually think that Palestine can actually stop all attack on Israel if there was a peace treaty signed?

522 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:36:22am

re: #512 ralphieboy

No, just being anti-Obama will not suffice. The Tea party also hates RINOS nearly as much as they hate anyone else to the left of them.

Yep. It's not enough to oppose Obama on policy grounds. It's a whole laundry list of "pure conservative" positions that have to be followed. If you disagree with them on any of that laundry list, you're a RINO, and that's worse than being a Democrat.

I went looking at Free Republic earlier to see what the wingnuts were saying about the current GOP field and there were people calling Teddy Roosevelt a RINO, saying that by today's standards, he'd be a lefty that could never get elected, and he was best left in the dustbin of history. Anyone that far to the right is going to demand greater ideological purity than just opposing Obama.

523 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:36:29am

re: #518 The Yankee

I am just lead to believe that there is a mentality on both sides that will make this thing never end. Israel has to trust Palestine enough that even if there are rockets coming in that they don't strike back.
And Palestine has to become a place where the group who is the most violent doesn't control the land. And the only way that can happen is if Palestine gets a better economy. Which probably means that Israel would have to give up the embargo or allow more Palestinians to travel. Other wise the only option for Palestinians is working with Hamas in some way.

So basically I am saying Palestine needs a better economy which I think can only happen if Israel loosen some of the rules up for a long period of time and not take the new privileges away even after they being attacked.


I might suggest you look at the LGF archives, back to the days immediately after Israel surrendered Gaza to the Palestinian people. You might see what happened to the green houses, to the stores, to all the successful businesses in the wake of Israel's departure. The basis of a viable economic structure was torn down and looted, whether on Hamas' orders or with their blessing.

Groups like Hamas don't want peace, don't want order, don't want economic prosperity, because they will cease to have a purpose. The only way you're going to create a viable economy in Palestine is by removing groups like Hamas from the picture.

524 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:37:40am

re: #521 The Yankee

So you guys actually think that Palestine can actually stop all attack on Israel if there was a peace treaty signed?

Israel has tried. Arafish didn't want peace and Abbas doesn't seem to want it either.

525 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:39:48am

Alrighty, gonna run. Need to throw out a few resumes and take a nap. See ya'll.

526 kirkspencer  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:41:20am

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

And what the fuck is wrong with the mentality that if you're being attacked, you strike back?

Would you just stand around while someone is beating the shit out of you, for no other reason then the fact that you exist?

You're not for real, are you?

Since I updinged his remark, I'll step up to the plate.

Yes, sometimes I don't hit back when someone is beating the shit out of me. Those times include when working with children and adults who've been abused and are half-crazed. Sometimes if you want to break through you have to use disproportionally small responses intead of tit-for-tat.

Bluntly, when you go digging into the whole history, you discover that both the Israelis and the Palestinians have two groups of people: a relatively ineffective majority that wants peace and resolution, and an effective minority that doesn't, that wants the other side driven to the sea, and acts to provoke responses that prevent that.

If your opinion is that Israel can do no wrong, or perhaps they can do anything they want because the other side is filled such animals as to not deserve humane treatment, then I suggest you are no better than the typical teabagger. Israel is better than the Palestineans but it is far from blameless, and it contains elements that have gone out of their way to continue the circle of violence.

I'm not sure The Yankee's suggestions are the right, but his underlying points are worth consideration.

527 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:41:58am

re: #521 The Yankee

So you guys actually think that Palestine can actually stop all attack on Israel if there was a peace treaty signed?

They should try it the other way

Stop all attacks, THEN you sign a peace treaty!!

You know,, like, prove that you're a civilized neighbor!

528 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:43:08am

re: #526 kirkspencer

I don't really think there are any portions of Israel that have deliberately continued the violence. I think there are Israelis who think that peace is impossible, and act solely in order to safeguard Israel. That's a significant difference from those that actively seek to destabilize peace.

529 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:44:15am

re: #526 kirkspencer

Yes, sometimes I don't hit back when someone is beating the shit out of me. Those times include when working with children and adults who've been abused and are half-crazed.

So you do nothing to defend yourself, just let the crazy person whack away!

530 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:44:22am

re: #527 sattv4u2

They should try it the other way

Stop all attacks, THEN you sign a peace treaty!!

You know,, like, prove that you're a civilized neighbor!

My point is I don't think that Palestine can stop all attacks. Kind of like Amerca getting rid of all gangs or drug dealers. The prize is just too big.

531 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:45:27am

re: #530 The Yankee

My point is I don't think that Palestine can stop all attacks. Kind of like Amerca getting rid of all gangs or drug dealers. The prize is just too big.


You do know the classic definition of insanity, don't you?

532 Kragar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:46:53am

re: #531 sattv4u2

You do know the classic definition of insanity, don't you?

Organized religion?

533 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:46:54am

Married to a twisted ideology that the peace lovers are the oppressors.

No wonder we're fucked.

534 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:47:46am

re: #530 The Yankee

My point is I don't think that Palestine can stop all attacks. Kind of like Amerca getting rid of all gangs or drug dealers. The prize is just too big.

And throwing open the gates and allowing them to ship in rockets wholesale is going to do what to stop or at least restrict the attacks?

Perhaps you think Israel should tear down the fencing as well, since we all know that things were so much better when buses and night clubs were going up like roman candles?

535 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:48:35am

re: #532 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Organized religion?

Politics.

536 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:48:55am

re: #530 The Yankee

My point is I don't think that Palestine can stop all attacks. Kind of like Amerca getting rid of all gangs or drug dealers. The prize is just too big.

So you think those Palis that toss rockets into Israel and walk into pizza joints with bomb vests on are no different than the Crips or the Bloods, huh

Just disenfranchised "Yutes" with nothing better to do

537 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:49:10am

re: #526 kirkspencer

Since I updinged his remark, I'll step up to the plate.

Yes, sometimes I don't hit back when someone is beating the shit out of me. Those times include when working with children and adults who've been abused and are half-crazed. Sometimes if you want to break through you have to use disproportionally small responses intead of tit-for-tat.

Bluntly, when you go digging into the whole history, you discover that both the Israelis and the Palestinians have two groups of people: a relatively ineffective majority that wants peace and resolution, and an effective minority that doesn't, that wants the other side driven to the sea, and acts to provoke responses that prevent that.

If your opinion is that Israel can do no wrong, or perhaps they can do anything they want because the other side is filled such animals as to not deserve humane treatment, then I suggest you are no better than the typical teabagger. Israel is better than the Palestineans but it is far from blameless, and it contains elements that have gone out of their way to continue the circle of violence.

I'm not sure The Yankee's suggestions are the right, but his underlying points are worth consideration.

Nobody here is saying that Israel can do no wrong. You get no points for that straw man.

Why don't you give an example of what you think is a "disproportionate small response" and an example of "tit for tat" that you think is currently being applied.

538 Winny Spencer  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:49:30am

re: #526 kirkspencer

What is this, dailypaul.com?

539 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:50:00am

re: #526 kirkspencer

Since I updinged his remark, I'll step up to the plate.

Yes, sometimes I don't hit back when someone is beating the shit out of me. Those times include when working with children and adults who've been abused and are half-crazed. Sometimes if you want to break through you have to use disproportionally small responses intead of tit-for-tat.

Bluntly, when you go digging into the whole history, you discover that both the Israelis and the Palestinians have two groups of people: a relatively ineffective majority that wants peace and resolution, and an effective minority that doesn't, that wants the other side driven to the sea, and acts to provoke responses that prevent that.

If your opinion is that Israel can do no wrong, or perhaps they can do anything they want because the other side is filled such animals as to not deserve humane treatment, then I suggest you are no better than the typical teabagger. Israel is better than the Palestineans but it is far from blameless, and it contains elements that have gone out of their way to continue the circle of violence.

I'm not sure The Yankee's suggestions are the right, but his underlying points are worth consideration.

First off... where did I say anything about "hitting back?" Why did you just make that up? I said "Would you just stand around while someone is beating the shit out of you." This language offers up a number of different tact's that one could take.

There's nothing to discuss with you if you can't be honest with my own words.

540 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:51:20am

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

C'Mon Walter, be reasonable
How can anyone win an argument with you if you don't let them tell you what you said!

541 Kragar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:51:27am

Almost Half of U.S. Meat and Poultry Contaminated by Staph Bacteria

American supermarket meat cases offer more than just a variety of protein-packed fare. A new study found that much of the meat and poultry produced in the United States is contaminated with antibiotic-resistant bacteria. In fact, the analysis revealed that 47 percent of the meat sampled contained drug-resistant strains of Staphylococcus aureus, commonly known as Staph bacteria. The full report was recently published in the April 15 edition of the medical journal Clinical Infectious Diseases.

According to senior study author Lance B. Price who head’s Tgen’s Center for Food Microbiology and Environmental Health, “For the first time, we know how much of our meat and poultry is contaminated with antibiotic-resistant Staph, and it is substantial.” Staph has been linked to a broad variety of medical conditions ranging from rashes to respiratory ailents, to potentially fatal illnesses such as sepsis, endocarditis and pneumonia. Multi-drug resistant Staphylococcus aureus, (MRSA) now runs rampant in U.S. hospitals, as the bacteria have become resistant to an increasing number of antibiotics drugs used to treat those infected by them.

For their study, the researchers collected and analyzed 136 samples out of 80 brands of beef, turkey pork and chicken from a total of 26 supermarkets among locations in Chicago, Fort Lauderdale, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C.; and, Flagstaff, Arizona. Their findings not only showed that drug-resistant strains of Staphylococcus aureus were contained in 47 percent of the samples, but also that 52 percent of the contaminated samples were resistant to at least three types of antibiotics.

542 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:51:36am

re: #526 kirkspencer

Israel has shown more restraint than any other nation on the planet.

Name one that would have absorbed more than 7,000 rocket/mortar attacks since 2005 and engaged only in an occasional response with military force, limited military incursions (Operation Cast Lead), and not sought to invade and recapture/reoccupy said territory to pacify the enemy?

Name one that would not only tolerate such actions, but which still provides significant energy transmissions, humanitarian aid, etc., even as the same terrorists occupying that territory target those transmission lines, border crossings, etc., with their mortars and rockets?

The problem is that time and time again, the Arabs - whether they are countries like Syria or Iran, or terror groups like Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PLFP, etc., mistake restraint for weakness and continue pressing their attacks.

Instead of seeing Gaza's disengagement as a sign of peace and a chance at prosperity, these same Palestinians saw it as a sign that Israel was weak and could be brought down by continued terrorism.

It's a fundamental misreading of the Palestinian intentions and drivers based on Israel's restraint and rules of engagement.

543 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:52:45am

re: #537 Alouette

Nobody here is saying that Israel can do no wrong. You get no points for that straw man.

Why don't you give an example of what you think is a "disproportionate small response" and an example of "tit for tat" that you think is currently being applied.

Absolutely and since when is hitting someone in the face a valid comparison to an entire annihilation of a people? Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story. And some people apparently are ok with that.

544 The Yankee  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:53:28am

re: #534 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And throwing open the gates and allowing them to ship in rockets wholesale is going to do what to stop or at least restrict the attacks?

Perhaps you think Israel should tear down the fencing as well, since we all know that things were so much better when buses and night clubs were going up like roman candles?

Geeze not saying that they should, I am just saying that the only way I see this ending is if Israel re: #536 sattv4u2

So you think those Palis that toss rockets into Israel and walk into pizza joints with bomb vests on are no different than the Crips or the Bloods, huh

Just disenfranchised "Yutes" with nothing better to do

Just saying it is a similar situation Palestine or Hamas saying that the war is over is different from actually going out and being able to stop every group from doing something to keep the conflict going.

545 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:54:21am

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Almost Half of U.S. Meat and Poultry Contaminated by Staph Bacteria

But...but...but how that can be?! Surely the free market would not allow businesses to be so careless! I know, I'll just refuse to buy meat from them, that will show them!

///

546 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:55:23am

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Almost Half of U.S. Meat and Poultry Contaminated by Staph Bacteria

Nothing the free market couldn't fix. If anything, this is the result of decades long left wing policies!

//

547 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:55:28am

re: #545 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

But...but...but how that can be?! Surely the free market would not allow businesses to be so careless! I know, I'll just refuse to buy meat from them, that will show them!

///

Exactly. The idea that there should be no regulation is mind boggling.

548 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:55:36am

re: #545 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thank god regulations have been slashed and in many cases meat-packers have been allowed to self-inspect. The free market ensured quality in no time!

/

549 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:56:18am

re: #545 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

But...but...but how that can be?! Surely the free market would not allow businesses to be so careless! I know, I'll just refuse to buy meat from them, that will show them!

///

Sure... and here's how well a state controlled market does with meat sales...

talian Butcher Arrested for Selling Decade-Old Meat
Updated: Friday, 15 Apr 2011, 7:42 AM EDT
Published : Friday, 15 Apr 2011, 7:26 AM EDT
(NewsCore) - Italian police arrested a Naples butcher after discovering worm-infested meat for sale in his store that was 10 years past its expiry date, the ANSA news agency reported Friday.
Shocked food safety inspectors discovered pasta and biscuits crawling with parasites, rotting meats and dairy products, and olives covered in mold in the store of horrors.
The butcher tampered with expiry dates on the products in order to keep on selling the items, even though some were a decade old, the report said.
Police arrested the butcher on suspicion of endangering public health.


Read more: [Link: www.myfoxdc.com...]

550 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:57:00am

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

Sure... and here's how well a state controlled market does with meat sales...

Burp.

551 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:57:22am

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

Walter, that is just more protein! Get with it!

552 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:58:56am

re: #551 brennant

Walter, that is just more protein! Get with it!

Andrew Zimmern, is that you?

[Link: www.travelchannel.com...]

553 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:59:26am

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

Um. Yeah. He got caught by health inspectors, and arrested.

554 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:59:53am

re: #552 sattv4u2

Andrew Zimmern, is that you?

[Link: www.travelchannel.com...]

[Jim Carrey]Yummmmmmy![/Jim Carrey]

555 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:00:07am

re: #553 Obdicut

Um. Yeah. He got caught by health inspectors, and arrested.

Took them 10 years. Um... yeah... (like my Obdicut imitation?)

556 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:00:28am

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

Sure... and here's how well a state controlled market does with meat sales...

Damn you, I just ate lunch.

557 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:00:48am

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Took them 10 years. Um... yeah... (like my Obdicut imitation?)

Well. Clearly the "free-market" wasn't working if he was still selling that beef. No?

558 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:00:51am

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

Sure... and here's how well a state controlled market does with meat sales...

This butcher was selling 10-yr old meat across the whole of Italy? My God, what a poorly run country!

///

559 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:01:46am

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Took them 10 years. Um... yeah... (like my Obdicut imitation?)

I don't think you really understood the story, Walter. Here it is:

Italian police arrested a Naples butcher after discovering worm-infested meat for sale in his store that was 10 years past its expiry date, the ANSA news agency reported Friday.

Shocked food safety inspectors discovered pasta and biscuits crawling with parasites, rotting meats and dairy products, and olives covered in mold in the store of horrors.

The butcher tampered with expiry dates on the products in order to keep on selling the items, even though some were a decade old, the report said.
Police arrested the butcher on suspicion of endangering public health.

See, the report isn't saying it took ten years to catch him. It's saying that he altered the dates on some items that were a decade old.

Does that help you understand?

560 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:01:50am

I can haz angry.

561 Simply Sarah  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:01:52am

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Took them 10 years. Um... yeah... (like my Obdicut imitation?)

So...you're saying this would have been caught sooner if the only inspections were ones he did himself?

562 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:01:58am

re: #544 The Yankee

Geeze not saying that they should, I am just saying that the only way I see this ending is if Israel re: #536 sattv4u2

If Israel what? Gives them all free satellite TV?

Just saying it is a similar situation Palestine or Hamas saying that the war is over is different from actually going out and being able to stop every group from doing something to keep the conflict going.

I read that three times and it makes no sense.

563 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:02:01am

re: #544 The Yankee

it is a similar situation

A few pissant gangs in the USA that want to traffic in drugs and intra gang violence is "a similar situation" as an armed wing of a political party trying to annihilate a sovereign nation

MMmkkkaaayy!!

564 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:03:07am

re: #563 sattv4u2


it is a similar situation

A few pissant gangs in the USA that want to traffic in drugs and intra gang violence is "a similar situation" as an armed wing of a political party IN POWER trying to annihilate a sovereign nation

MMmkkkaaayy!!

565 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:03:34am

re: #562 Alouette

I read that three times and it makes no sense.

I've given up... both Yankee and Kirk.

566 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:04:07am

re: #558 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

This butcher was selling 10-yr old meat across the whole of Italy? My God, what a poorly run country!

///

I know. Just burst into the shop and shoot the meat up with an AR-15 and then plant a "Don't Tread on Me" flag over the dead meat.

//

567 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:04:33am

re: #566 Gus 802

I know. Just burst into the shop and shoot the meat up with an AR-15 and then plant a "Don't Tread on Me" flag over the dead meat.

//

You wouldn't do that.

568 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:04:44am

Time to call in Dr. Troll Hammer. When you absolutely, positively, must education someone who is so completely ignorant about the Middle East and the Arab-Israeli conflict, that nothing else will do.

569 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:05:16am

re: #567 Walter L. Newton

You wouldn't do that.

Could happen any day now.

/

570 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:05:19am

re: #543 marjoriemoon

Absolutely and since when is hitting someone in the face a valid comparison to an entire annihilation of a people? Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story. And some people apparently are ok with that.

I think what some people are most decidedly not ok with is condemning an entire geographic region full of people as possessed of a single malignant mind.

571 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:06:49am

re: #568 lawhawk

Time to call in Dr. Troll Hammer. When you absolutely, positively, must education someone who is so completely ignorant about the Middle East and the Arab-Israeli conflict, that nothing else will do.

Pass that on to Kirkspencer too!

572 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:07:42am

re: #568 lawhawk

Time to call in Dr. Troll Hammer. When you absolutely, positively, must education someone who is so completely ignorant about the Middle East and the Arab-Israeli conflict, that nothing else will do.

Ah, Ye Olde Trollhammer. Truly a work of art, even to this day.

573 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:08:11am

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Republicans have made defunding Democrats' health care law a top priority, but at a closed-to-the-press fundraiser Obama candidly described to donors how he defeated their attempts. Perhaps not realizing his mic was on, Obama's private remarks were caught by CBS correspondent Mark Knoller, who was able to listen to through a live audio feed.

"I said, 'You want to repeal health care? Go at it. We'll have that debate," Obama said, describing his negotiations with Speaker John Boehner. "You're not going to be able to do that by nickel-and-diming me in the budget. You think we're stupid?'"

According to CBS, Obama quoted himself as telling Boehner to "Put it in a separate bill," adding that "if you think you can overturn my veto, try it. But don't try to sneak this through."

574 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:08:58am

re: #568 lawhawk

Heh. There's a reason I stay the hell out of discussions about Israel or the Palestinian/Israeli conflict around here -- I'm not well versed in it and don't have enough of a grasp of everything that's going on over there to comment on it at all.

575 blueraven  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:09:09am

re: #559 Obdicut

I don't think you really understood the story, Walter. Here it is:

See, the report isn't saying it took ten years to catch him. It's saying that he altered the dates on some items that were a decade old.

Does that help you understand?

It is an extreme and disgusting example in Italy anyway.

If you cook your meat thoroughly, any bacteria will be killed. Not always optimal, but it is a solution in the short run.

576 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:09:34am

re: #573 Fozzie Bear

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Playing hardball, I like that.

577 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:09:44am

re: #575 blueraven

It is an extreme and disgusting example in Italy anyway.

If you cook your meat thoroughly, any bacteria will be killed. Not always optimal, but it is a solution in the short run.

Then there is nothing to worry about... good... I;m glad you see the truth in that.

578 brennant  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:10:29am

re: #559 Obdicut

See, the report isn't saying it took ten years to catch him. It's saying that he altered the dates on some items that were a decade old.

Does that help you understand?

Whoa whoa whoa!

579 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:10:48am

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

Then there is nothing to worry about... good... I;m glad you see the truth in that.

So you see nothing to worry about half the country's beef and poultry being contaminated with antibiotic-resistant Staph bacteria?

Hey, you like playing Russian Roulette, be my guest.

580 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:11:07am

re: #578 brennant

Whoa whoa whoa!

Derp.

581 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:11:45am

This is why I no longer eat raw chickens whole.

582 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:12:17am

re: #581 Fozzie Bear

This is why I no longer eat raw chickens whole.

You cut them up first?

583 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:12:19am

re: #574 Lidane

Not a reason to stay out at all - I'm sure you've got an opinion on the matter that is well considered. Moreover, there are plenty of folks here who can help with specific facts or issues and reputable resources online.

584 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:12:21am

re: #581 Fozzie Bear

This is why I no longer eat raw chickens whole.

How 'bout 4 fried chickens a coke?

/

585 blueraven  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:12:32am

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

Then there is nothing to worry about... good... I;m glad you see the truth in that.

I hardly said there is nothing to worry about. There is plenty, but solutions are available. Many people do not cook their meat to well done, and shouldn't have to.

586 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:13:14am

re: #568 lawhawk

Ugh... PIMF - educate - not education someone...

587 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:13:25am

re: #570 Fozzie Bear

I think what some people are most decidedly not ok with is condemning an entire geographic region full of people as possessed of a single malignant mind.

OK, so what in your opinion is the reason the Arabs in the territories attacked Israel at the start of its inception? When BTW they were offered the partition in 1947 for their own state. Forget about the ensuing treaties. Why didn't they accept from the get go?

588 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:14:00am

re: #585 blueraven

I hardly said there is nothing to worry about. There is plenty, but solutions are available. Many people do not cook their meat to well done, and shouldn't have to.

I know, sell home irradiation machines. Obviously the meat companies are too cheap to do it themselves, so let people do it at home!

/

589 Slap  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:14:00am

re: #586 lawhawk

Ugh... PIMF - educate - not education someone...

Is OK. Everybody mess up sometimed.

590 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:15:02am

re: #583 lawhawk

Not a reason to stay out at all - I'm sure you've got an opinion on the matter that is well considered. Moreover, there are plenty of folks here who can help with specific facts or issues and reputable resources online.

I have my opinions, but for me the biggest thing is reputable sources. I simply don't know which sources to believe, especially since so much has gone on over there over the last century that it's hard to keep up. It's hard for me to look at everything coming out of there and know what's true and what's bullshit.

591 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:15:05am

re: #584 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Or coke and chicken...

592 Simply Sarah  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:16:03am

Remember: When a government run program or activity fails, it just shows how ineffective and wasteful the government is. When a private business fails, it also shows how ineffective and wasteful the government is.
/

593 Kragar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:16:56am

re: #584 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How 'bout 4 fried chickens a coke?

/

I stick to dry white toast.

594 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:17:01am

re: #592 Simply Sarah

Remember: When a government run program or activity fails, it just shows how ineffective and wasteful the government is. When a private business fails, it also shows how ineffective and wasteful the government is.
/

All praise be to Rand!

/

595 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:17:31am

re: #590 Lidane

I have my opinions, but for me the biggest thing is reputable sources. I simply don't know which sources to believe, especially since so much has gone on over there over the last century that it's hard to keep up. It's hard for me to look at everything coming out of there and know what's true and what's bullshit.

This is one of my favorite resources.

[Link: www.palestinefacts.org...]

They were down for awhile, but I'm glad to see they came back up.

596 Kragar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:18:06am

Speaking of chickens...

Feral chickens have proliferated in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina

597 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:18:20am

re: #587 marjoriemoon

OK, so what in your opinion is the reason the Arabs in the territories attacked Israel at the start of its inception? When BTW they were offered the partition in 1947 for their own state. Forget about the ensuing treaties. Why didn't they accept from the get go?

"They" aren't every Palestinian man, woman, and child, as statements like " Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story." would imply. I'm not getting into a long discussion about this topic here, because it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion of this issue here at LGF without it devolving into name-calling. I've seen this conversation too many times, and it never ends with anything other than angry diatribes.

598 Kragar  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:18:35am

re: #594 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

All praise be to Rand!

/

Well, he is the Dragon Reborn.

/

599 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:18:47am

re: #596 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of chickens...

Feral chickens have proliferated in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina

"God, you look horrid. What happened to you?"
"I got attacked by a horde of chickens!"

600 Gus  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:19:25am

re: #596 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of chickens...

Feral chickens have proliferated in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina

Do they have a pigeon chicken lady yet?

601 albusteve  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:20:40am

re: #596 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of chickens...

Feral chickens have proliferated in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina

herd em up and drive em to Abilene

602 blueraven  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:20:46am

re: #597 Fozzie Bear

"They" aren't every Palestinian man, woman, and child, as statements like " Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story." would imply. I'm not getting into a long discussion about this topic here, because it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion of this issue here at LGF without it devolving into name-calling. I've seen this conversation too many times, and it never ends with anything other than angry diatribes.

I think there was a really good discussion a few days ago. I forget which thread, but it was excellent.

Yes it was broad, but honest and respectful.

603 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:20:52am

I got eight white-tailed deer having a picnic in my driveway right now.

604 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:21:44am

re: #597 Fozzie Bear

"They" aren't every Palestinian man, woman, and child, as statements like " Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story." would imply. I'm not getting into a long discussion about this topic here, because it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion of this issue here at LGF without it devolving into name-calling. I've seen this conversation too many times, and it never ends with anything other than angry diatribes.

Truth, my friend, not diatribes. If you and others could understand the basis for this conflict, you would understand the importance of the State of Israel. We will not allow ourselves to be driven into the sea. If that upsets people, screw em.

Hamas Charter

For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

605 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:21:55am

re: #603 Walter L. Newton

I got eight white-tailed deer having a picnic in my driveway right now.

Are they having venison stew and deer burgers?

606 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:23:00am

re: #605 sattv4u2

Are they having venison stew and deer burgers?

No... just nibbling on some of the winter grass and other ground cover.

607 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:24:37am

re: #606 Walter L. Newton

No... just nibbling on some of the winter grass and other ground cover.

Winter grass is so last season...

608 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:25:44am

re: #604 marjoriemoon

Truth, my friend, not diatribes. If you and others could understand the basis for this conflict, you would understand the importance of the State of Israel. We will not allow ourselves to be driven into the sea. If that upsets people, screw em.

Hamas Charter

For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

Not every German was an anti-semite, but it was a little hard separating the sheep from the goats when you are in the middle of a war. There is a implied support of a "state" or government when the people living under that government apparently makes no effort to denounce the actions of that state.

609 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:26:23am

re: #597 Fozzie Bear

"They" aren't every Palestinian man, woman, and child, as statements like " Palestinians ideology is borne of anti-Semitism. Period. End of story." would imply. I'm not getting into a long discussion about this topic here, because it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion of this issue here at LGF without it devolving into name-calling. I've seen this conversation too many times, and it never ends with anything other than angry diatribes.

IAWTC

610 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:26:56am

re: #570 Fozzie Bear

I think what some people are most decidedly not ok with is condemning an entire geographic region full of people as possessed of a single malignant mind.

IAAWTC

611 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:27:28am

re: #604 marjoriemoon

Truth, my friend, not diatribes. If you and others could understand the basis for this conflict, you would understand the importance of the State of Israel. We will not allow ourselves to be driven into the sea. If that upsets people, screw em.

Hamas Charter

For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

I understand the basis for the conflict. I have studied the history. I will not, however, agree with broad blanket statements condemning an entire geographic region as composed of anti-semites, just as I won't agree with blanket statements dismissing Israel as a militaristic hegemon. I have seen more spittle fly regarding this issue than I care to recount, and I have seen people, on both sides, say horrific things worthy of condemnation. I have seen some of those things said right here at LGF.

That I don't wish to get knee-deep in it right now isn't an invitation for a lecture, nor is it a veiled admission of ignorance. The next time you wish to make a comment that contains the phrase "If you and others could understand", address it to someone else. Thank you.

612 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:27:58am

What is it about cats and climbing all over computer desks? Especially climbing in front of your monitor or walking over your keyboard while you're trying to type or read?

613 albusteve  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:28:16am

more codes...
IDGARA

614 Simply Sarah  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:28:31am

re: #612 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What is it about cats and climbing all over computer desks? Especially climbing in front of your monitor or walking over your keyboard while you're trying to type or read?

I've always figured it was because it was a good way to get attention.

615 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:29:29am

re: #609 WindUpBird

IAWTC

I Am The World Trade Center... what?

616 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:30:50am

re: #596 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of chickens...

Feral chickens have proliferated in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina

Time to call FEMA: The Feral Emergency Management Agency

617 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:32:41am

re: #608 Walter L. Newton

Not every German was an anti-semite, but it was a little hard separating the sheep from the goats when you are in the middle of a war. There is a implied support of a "state" or government when the people living under that government apparently makes no effort to denounce the actions of that state.

Indeed, eventually the masses are so wrapped up in fear, they have nothing left but to follow.

The fear that controls the "plebs" in this case is steeped in anti-Semitism until it is believed. Would you rather believe or become the victim of the torturers?

Where does that leave the world? Destroy Hamas and then maybe, MAYBE there's hope for change in ideology.

Did we try to change the hearts and minds in WWII? No, we went to war to destroy Germany.

618 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:34:16am

*snort*

Pandemonium! Dems Jam Republicans With Even More Conservative Budget


Panic ensued. In the House, legislation passes by a simple majority of members voting. The Dems took themselves out of the equation, leaving Republicans to decide whether the House should adopt the more-conservative RSC budget instead of the one authored by Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan. As Dems flipped to present, Republicans realized that a majority of their members had indeed gone on the record in support of the RSC plan -- and if the vote closed, it would pass. That would be a slap in the face to Ryan, and a politically toxic outcome for the Republican party.

So they started flipping their votes from "yes" to "no."

619 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:35:13am

re: #618 JasonA

*snort*

Pandemonium! Dems Jam Republicans With Even More Conservative Budget

Lol

620 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:37:46am

re: #611 Fozzie Bear

I understand the basis for the conflict. I have studied the history. I will not, however, agree with broad blanket statements condemning an entire geographic region as composed of anti-semites, just as I won't agree with blanket statements dismissing Israel as a militaristic hegemon. I have seen more spittle fly regarding this issue than I care to recount, and I have seen people, on both sides, say horrific things worthy of condemnation. I have seen some of those things said right here at LGF.

That I don't wish to get knee-deep in it right now isn't an invitation for a lecture, nor is it a veiled admission of ignorance. The next time you wish to make a comment that contains the phrase "If you and others could understand", address it to someone else. Thank you.

It is not my lecture. It is Hamas' lecture and if you can't see the forest for the trees, I can't help you.

621 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:39:12am

re: #611 Fozzie Bear

I understand the basis for the conflict. I have studied the history. I will not, however, agree with broad blanket statements condemning an entire geographic region as composed of anti-semites, just as I won't agree with blanket statements dismissing Israel as a militaristic hegemon. I have seen more spittle fly regarding this issue than I care to recount, and I have seen people, on both sides, say horrific things worthy of condemnation. I have seen some of those things said right here at LGF.

That I don't wish to get knee-deep in it right now isn't an invitation for a lecture, nor is it a veiled admission of ignorance. The next time you wish to make a comment that contains the phrase "If you and others could understand", address it to someone else. Thank you.

And you know, Fozzie, I have consistently and without fail supported Muslims in America. Over and over and over, so your attempt at painting me as a freakin racist doesn't fly IN THE LEAST.

622 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:40:32am

re: #597 Fozzie Bear

I'm not getting into a long discussion about this topic here, because it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion of this issue here at LGF without it devolving into name-calling. I've seen this conversation too many times, and it never ends with anything other than angry diatribes.

You were on this thread some, but perhaps left before the part that makes your statement incorrect. Read from about comment #220 to the end.

(And I hope this is not the only example that makes your statement incorrect, but I don't know of another recent one.)

623 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:46:23am

Moreso, I have consistently supported gathering with Muslims to help them overcome prejudice against THEM where it is clearly unwarranted. Go call someone else ignorant, not me.

624 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:47:05am

re: #620 marjoriemoon

It is not my lecture. It is Hamas' lecture and if you can't see the forest for the trees, I can't help you.

You may note that literally all I have said is that I don't think it is valid to say that ALL palestinians are _____. (Whatever that might be.)

re: #621 marjoriemoon

And you know, Fozzie, I have consistently and without fail supported Muslims in America. Over and over and over, so your attempt at painting me as a freakin racist doesn't fly IN THE LEAST.

Quote me where I called you a racist.

See, this is exactly why I don't think it's possible to have a reasonable conversation about this topic, here at LGF.

625 Lidane  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:50:38am

re: #618 JasonA

*snort*

Pandemonium! Dems Jam Republicans With Even More Conservative Budget

I want video of this. Comedy gold, I'm sure.

626 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:51:16am

re: #618 JasonA

*snort*

Pandemonium! Dems Jam Republicans With Even More Conservative Budget

Let the schism begin!

627 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:51:19am

re: #624 Fozzie Bear

You may note that literally all I have said is that I don't think it is valid to say that ALL palestinians are ___. (Whatever that might be.)

re: #621 marjoriemoon

Quote me where I called you a racist.

See, this is exactly why I don't think it's possible to have a reasonable conversation about this topic, here at LGF.

You implied it and you know it. The Palestinians living in the territories are bigots. They are taught the ideology from birth. I am distinguishing a group of people from others. I thought that was clear.

So if it isn't clear to you, I do not think this represents all Muslims, all Arabs or all Persians. Muslims have been fleeing oppression for decades because they suffer more than anyone has and I wholeheartedly support their fight for freedom. I'm not talking about them.

628 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:53:26am

re: #627 marjoriemoon

You implied it and you know it. The Palestinians living in the territories are bigots. They are taught the ideology from birth. I am distinguishing a group of people from others. I thought that was clear.

So if it isn't clear to you, I do not think this represents all Muslims, all Arabs or all Persians. Muslims have been fleeing oppression for decades because they suffer more than anyone has and I wholeheartedly support their fight for freedom. I'm not talking about them.

Wow dude. We're done here.

629 iossarian  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:53:37am

re: #627 marjoriemoon

You implied it and you know it. The Palestinians living in the territories are bigots. They are taught the ideology from birth. I am distinguishing a group of people from others. I thought that was clear.

So if it isn't clear to you, I do not think this represents all Muslims, all Arabs or all Persians. Muslims have been fleeing oppression for decades because they suffer more than anyone has and I wholeheartedly support their fight for freedom. I'm not talking about them.

I've read his comments and I will just say that I didn't think he implied anything. I read his comments as meaning: "Hamas =/= Palestinian".

630 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:55:30am

re: #628 Fozzie Bear

Wow dude. We're done here.

I'm not your dude and yea, we're done.

631 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:58:34am

re: #629 iossarian

I've read his comments and I will just say that I didn't think he implied anything. I read his comments as meaning: "Hamas =/= Palestinian".

Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying. No biggie. That's why this topic isn't a good one to discuss here.

632 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:59:20am

re: #631 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying. No biggie. That's why this topic isn't a good one to discuss here.

Did you look at the link in #622?

633 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:00:24am

re: #627 marjoriemoon

Not all Palestinians, even from the territories, are bigots.

Yes, they're all taught from birth that Jews are bad and Israel is evil. But just like people anywhere, some rise above that.

Most who do, suffer for it. Are even killed for it.

634 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:00:58am

re: #629 iossarian

I've read his comments and I will just say that I didn't think he implied anything. I read his comments as meaning: "Hamas =/= Palestinian".

Well if I can't distinguish from the hordes of peace-loving Palestinians and Hamas, I must be racist, mustn't I?

NOW I'm done.

635 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:02:21am

re: #634 marjoriemoon

Well if I can't distinguish from the hordes of peace-loving Palestinians and Hamas, I must be racist, mustn't I?

NOW I'm done.

Seriously, I don't know what you are responding to here, but it sure as hell isn't me.

636 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 2:02:37pm

re: #633 Obdicut

Not all Palestinians, even from the territories, are bigots.

Yes, they're all taught from birth that Jews are bad and Israel is evil. But just like people anywhere, some rise above that.

Most who do, suffer for it. Are even killed for it.

A good friend of mine, his dad knows a TON of Palestinians who settled in california, and it sure doesn't sound like they're anything but cool, hard working people

637 kirkspencer  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 6:10:23pm

re: #528 Obdicut

I don't really think there are any portions of Israel that have deliberately continued the violence. I think there are Israelis who think that peace is impossible, and act solely in order to safeguard Israel. That's a significant difference from those that actively seek to destabilize peace.

One word: settlers.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Melting of Juneau Icefield Rapidly Accelerating, Study Concludes The melting of Southeast Alaska’s Juneau Icefield, source of more than 1,000 glaciers, is accelerating, shrinking 4.6 times faster than it was in the 1980s, according to a new study. Researchers tracked snow levels in the nearly 1,500-square mile ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 94 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
The Good Liars at Miami Trump Rally [VIDEO] Jason and Davram talk with Trump supporters about art, Mike Lindell, who is really president and more! SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!LOS ANGELES, CA squadup.com SUBSCRIBE TO OUR AUDIO PODCAST:Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.comSpotify: open.spotify.comJoin this channel to ...
teleskiguy
3 weeks ago
Views: 897 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0