In what’s shaping up to be the worst media scandal of all time, the FBI said today that they’re investigating allegations that journalists for Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp hacked into the phone records of 9/11 victims.
3 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:11:16pm |
Nice, so Murdoch will close another news division to avoid the bad publicity?
| 5 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:11:50pm |
re: #3 Floral Giraffe
Nice, so Murdoch will close another news division to avoid the bad publicity?
I think, at this point, damage control is no longer a possibility.
| 6 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:11:56pm |
probably the very worst scenario for Rupe...the FBI is bad news
| 7 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:12:04pm |
This is what happens, GOP, when you enable a man with no ethics, no morals, no honor. This is what happens when you make lying and distortion a normal part of public discourse. Arrogance sets in.
I understand why this is a bigger scandal than the persecution and denigration of scientists engaged in by both News Corp and the GOP, but it's all part of the same parcel.
They don't care who they hurt and whose lives they affect, whose privacy they intrude on, what they step on. It's all fair game.
Sick, sick bastards. The ghost of Murray Kempton should get to tut-tut them into oblivion.
| 8 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:12:28pm |
(Re-posting from downstairs)
Suggested places to investigate:
Jim McGreevey
Eliot Spitzer
Anthony Weiner
I'd lay odds that News Corp.'s fingerprints are on at least one of them. So to speak.
| 9 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:12:33pm |
Man oh man. The wingnut conspiracy theorists are going to go nuts. As will the Eric Holder derangement. This going to bring Obama derangement to a boiling point.
| 10 |
SpaceJesus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:12:40pm |
if what happened in britain is any indication, this investigation will bring up thing after thing after thing. what a rotten structure murdoch has built
| 11 |
shutdown Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:13:34pm |
re: #10 SpaceJesus
if what happened in britain is any indication, this investigation will bring up thing after thing after thing. what a rotten structure murdoch has built
His intention was never to build a "media empire", but to become a kingmaker and powerbroker.
| 12 |
SpaceJesus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:13:48pm |
here is the AP article too,
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]
| 13 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:13:49pm |
Red alert! Man your battle stations. FBI to investigate New Corporation! This is not a drill! Repeat. Red alert! Man your battle stations. FBI to investigate New Corporation! This is not a drill!
| 14 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:13:51pm |
re: #7 Obdicut
Sick, sick bastards. The ghost of Murray Kempton should get to tut-tut them into oblivion.
That would be a tut-tut-ing they wouldn't soon forget. Kempton could tut-tut with the best of them.
| 15 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:14:03pm |
re: #3 Floral Giraffe
Nice, so Murdoch will close another news division to avoid the bad publicity?
Without Beck, what's the sense in hanging on?
| 17 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:14:42pm |
re: #14 makeitstop
That would be a tut-tut-ing they wouldn't soon forget. Kempton could tut-tut with the best of them.
He could write an article about what shitheads they were, but they would be too obtuse to actually get it.
| 18 |
RadicalModerate Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:15:32pm |
Okay... given the amount of cross-brand sharing of information/stories that the NewsCorp outlets share, what are the odds that not only did the New York Post and FoxNews (both of who are based in NYC) have full knowledge of this, but were actually complicit in the usage of their facilities and sharing of information?
| 19 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:16:12pm |
They'll have to put Andrew Breitbart in a medically induced coma until the investigation is over. For his own good.
//
| 21 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:16:51pm |
Schadenfreude!
Making the world a better place...
Making the world a better place...
Making the world a better place...
To be!
| 22 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:17:20pm |
Didn't the Sun publish stories based on the illegal activity of NotW?
Wonder how many other Murdoch outlets did the same.
| 23 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:17:32pm |
re: #20 SpaceJesus
i wonder what their stock is doing
15.43
-0.50 (-3.14%)
[Link: www.google.com...]
Not much downward movement.
| 24 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:18:19pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
15.43
-0.50 (-3.14%)[Link: www.google.com...]
Not much downward movement.
Yet. Once the 'hacking 9/11 victims' phones' meme takes hold, he's gonna take a bath.
| 25 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:18:46pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Didn't the Sun publish stories based on the illegal activity of NotW?
Wonder how many other Murdoch outlets did the same.
Clarification:
What I mean is that the Sun used the illegally obtained info for their articles.
| 26 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:19:21pm |
I suspect this investigation won't go as far here as it did in the UK, but at least this will cause some degree of long overdue scrutiny of Murdoch's media empire here in the US.
It causes some tiny degree of optimism. Here's hoping the US can make some progress toward weakening NewsCorp's death grip on American culture and politics.
| 27 |
Bulworth Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:20:26pm |
I'm sure the hacking was just one or a few "bad apples".
//
| 29 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:22:24pm |
WSJ (A News Corp outfit) reported it as:
News Corp. Stock Tanks a Little More on Report of FBI Probe
Shares of News Corp., employer of this blogger, are stumbling even further after an AP report that the FBI is looking into the hacking scandal.
The stock, which was up a bit before the news broke, is now down 2% to $15.60. The shares are down about 15% since the end of May.
According to the AP, the probe is looking into whether News Corp. employees tried to hack the phones of victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Update: The WSJ has the story now. The stock is down 3%.
| 30 |
shutdown Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:22:52pm |
re: #27 Bulworth
I'm sure the hacking was just one or a few "bad apples".
//
Even if true, did not stop him form throwing the entire staff of NotW to the wolves. Asshat that he is. Imagine you're a secretary, or layout specialist, or whatever trying to find a job in this market.
| 31 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:23:18pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Didn't the Sun publish stories based on the illegal activity of NotW?
Wonder how many other Murdoch outlets did the same.
I keep telling people, the key to a successful business model is finding what works and duplicating it.
Certain things are SOP for Murdoch - like prominent talking heads from his media outlets (or editors in the UK) leaving their media posts and taking gigs in government.
What could Tony Snow (RIP) have learned 'off the record' about certain Democrats while working at the White House?
I'd be more surprised if Fox didn't use these same tactics than if they did, TBH.
| 32 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:23:41pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
15.43
-0.50 (-3.14%)[Link: www.google.com...]
Not much downward movement.
Yes, but he also just bought back $5billion in stock to keep his shareholders happy.
| 33 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:24:22pm |
re: #26 Fozzie Bear
Check this out, Fozzie, for why it actually might blow up even bigger than it seems.
[Link: lezgetreal.com...]
Murdoch has been married three times, and has fathered six children. The eldest, 53-year-old Prudence, is very much out of the public eye and never really mentioned in any stories about the business. The youngest, Grace and Chloe, by third wife Wendi Deng, are only 10 and 8 years old. It’s the three in the middle who are important as the family business comes under fire for the News of the World scandal.
Forty-year-old Lachlan was groomed to be the heir to the empire, until he suddenly quit in July 2005. Insiders have said that Roger Ailes was part of the reason for Lachlan’s departure. Lachlan does not support the editorial policies of Fox News. That left thirty-nine-year old James to move into the second spot in the company. Forty-three-year-old daughter Elizabeth had been a major player in the company, actually showing some of the same ruthless business tendancies as her father. After her divorce from her first husband in 1998, she struck out on her own, and with her second husband, Matthew Freud, has been very critical of her father’s business practices and of Ailes and Fox News in particular.Roger Ailes, the manager of Fox News, has been a flashpoint within the family and among News Corp shareholders for some time now. Prince Alwaleed is one of the funders of the proposed Muslim community center four blocks from Ground Zero, and not pleased at all by Fox’s coverage of the center. Murdoch was attacked verbally by shareholders last year for using corporate money to donate to the Republican Governor’s Association and to the Chamber of Commerce 501(c). Without James, who is the focus of much of the British investigation, Murdoch loses his only support within his own family.
It has long been assumed that when Rupert dies, the gloves will come off and James would be pushed aside by the troika of Lachlan, Elizabeth and Prince Alwaleed. They may not have to wait that long. The owners of those class B stocks are suing News Corp over their losses since the British scandal broke. Murdoch is hustling to buy up as much of his own company’s stock as possible to stabilize it.
| 34 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:24:53pm |
re: #12 SpaceJesus
here is the AP article too,
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]
What will the Fox Nation headline be?
| 35 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:25:53pm |
re: #29 Gus 802
WSJ (A News Corp outfit) reported it as:
The WSJ has been utter shit since Murdoch bought it.
| 36 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:26:00pm |
re: #34 Lidane
What will the Fox Nation headline be?
'Obama threatens News Corp. with frivolous DoJ investigation'
Just a guess.
| 37 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:26:09pm |
re: #34 Lidane
What will the Fox Nation headline be?
"Obama threatens to take away First Amendment" comes to mind.
| 38 |
Bulworth Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:26:14pm |
What will the Fox Nation headline be?
Obama defaulting on debt!
Obama denying seniors their Social Security benefits!
Michelle Obama eats a hamburger!
Obama won't cut spending!
| 39 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:26:31pm |
re: #32 darthstar
Yes, but he also just bought back $5billion in stock to keep his shareholders happy.
Yep. He's going to keep taking hits until everything comes to an end. They'll survive though considering the massive size of NWSA and its holdings. Perhaps they'll start selling off some holdings.
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:27:07pm |
re: #24 makeitstop
Yet. Once the 'hacking 9/11 victims' phones' meme takes hold, he's gonna take a bath.
Yeah. That one's gonna be an ISSUE.
| 41 |
silentbob27 Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:27:39pm |
The Fox Headline will be: "WITCH HUNT!"
Well, if they even mention it at all, which is doubtful.
| 42 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:27:41pm |
re: #36 makeitstop
'Obama threatens News Corp. with frivolous DoJ investigation'
Just a guess.
Obama to Close Down Fox News!!11ty
//FoxNation
//
| 43 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:28:12pm |
re: #31 makeitstop
I imagine that tabloid practices here probably more or less mirror practices in the UK. But that's why I think this isn't likely to result in very much of a long-term reduction in the influence of NewsCorp here in the US. If the wrongdoings exposed end at a tabloid hacking phones, it's certainly scandalous, but I think most people here in the US will ultimately dismiss this as a "few bad apples" scenario, particularly when you consider the powerful role Fox plays in American politics.
That's the meme that will be hammered home, and I think most people will ultimately buy it, for lack of further evidence: this is a few bad actors, acting badly, 'over there'.
| 45 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:29:17pm |
re: #21 jamesfirecat
Schadenfreude!
Making the world a better place...
Making the world a better place...
Making the world a better place...
To be!
| 46 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:30:18pm |
| 47 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:31:24pm |
re: #33 Obdicut
Check this out, Fozzie, for why it actually might blow up even bigger than it seems.
[Link: lezgetreal.com...]
Now that's an angle I hadn't considered in depth: infighting. This aspect of the story holds more promise, I think, than the actual hacking scandal itself. (By 'promise' I mean the potential to significantly weaken Fox and/or change the absurdly slanted reporting bias of Fox here in the US.)
| 48 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:33:22pm |
Thanks for the link, Obdi, but for some reason, it doesn't seem to be working.
| 49 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:33:53pm |
re: #48 Fozzie Bear
Oh ok nevermind... it just had very bad latency. It loaded after a couple of minutes.
| 50 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:35:32pm |
re: #44 SpaceJesus
why does obama hate the press??
Haven't you been watching the Debt Ceiling discussions? Obama loves the press - especially the full court press...wherein he steals the ball from Boehner and slam dunks it over Cantor's shit-eating grin, then does it again to Jowls McConnell.
| 51 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:35:53pm |
re: #34 Lidane
What will the Fox Nation headline be?
Obama Administration Burns Down Tara NewsCorp, Last Bulwark Against Government Tyrrany
| 52 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:36:02pm |
re: #47 Fozzie Bear
A lot of people (wrongly) think that the direction Fox went in was and is market-driven. It's not. It's because of Murdoch's political views, and that of Ailes. Its profitability is in part because of the collusion of the GOP, who find those viewpoints ever-so-useful, no matter that they're total shit and complete lies, and the anti-intellectual, anti-science streak that was already present in the US.
I think Murdoch is almost beyond caring at this point. His grand plans have fallen apart. He's driven the GOP into the wilderness of insanity, rather than ensuring a permanent GOP majority. They've had to resort to increasingly desperate tactics that will, eventually, bit them in the ass-- the race-baiting, the gaybashing.
I'm not sure how hard Murdoch is even going to fight. He may go down swinging, but simply shuttering News of the World was a bizarre decision that got him nothing, in the end.
| 53 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:36:27pm |
Drudge has the story but none of the right wing blogs want to touch it yet.
| 55 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:38:06pm |
re: #52 Obdicut
Oh, and he may not go down at all, depending on how much cover his GOP allies give him.
| 56 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:38:16pm |
re: #53 Killgore Trout
Drudge has the story but none of the right wing blogs want to touch it yet.
They're trying to come up with some bullshit because it involves 9/11 families.
| 57 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:39:05pm |
OT but watching MSSNBC and they have Rep Walsh on there. God what a tool. Presented with facts he still calls Obama a liar.
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:39:16pm |
God the hilarity if this actually bears fruit
| 60 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:40:59pm |
re: #56 Gus 802
They're trying to come up with some bullshit because it involves 9/11 families.
They're trying to think of a new way to deflect. Initially they tried to blame NYT, PBS, etc but that didn't work very well.
| 61 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:41:14pm |
| 62 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:41:53pm |
re: #56 Gus 802
They're trying to come up with some bullshit because it involves 9/11 families.
Watch them suggest that News Corp was only targeting the Muslim families, so it's okay.
| 63 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:42:52pm |
re: #60 Killgore Trout
They're trying to think of a new way to deflect. Initially they tried to blame NYT, PBS, etc but that didn't work very well.
Now Republican Peter King is on board. They're going to flip out. Whatever they come up with be bullshit and indefensible. What News Corp did over at NOTW was beyond the pale and some of the victims were 9/11 victims families and war veteran families.
| 64 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:43:00pm |
re: #62 Lidane
Watch them suggest that News Corp was only targeting the Muslim families, so it's okay.
They can go truther, and claim they were going after the REAL SECRET BEHIND 9/11
| 67 |
Big Steve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:43:46pm |
"the worst media scandal of all time".......worse than the media manufacturing the Spanish American war?
| 70 |
Virginia Plain Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:45:22pm |
I can easily picture Murdoch going down Scarface style.
| 71 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:45:34pm |
re: #69 iceweasel
Ha, I was JUST about to type that! ;-)
But Robert Byrd!!...
No wait that doesn't work here. ;)
//
| 72 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:45:48pm |
Somewhere out there, there's an Ari Gold quote that applies to this. I'm trolling through Entourage quote sites to try and find one. XD
| 73 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:46:07pm |
The movement’s top prophets and apostles believe they have a direct line to God. Through them, they say, He communicates specific instructions and warnings. When mankind fails to heed the prophecies, the results can be catastrophic: earthquakes in Japan, terrorist attacks in New York, and economic collapse. On the other hand, they believe their God-given decrees have ended mad cow disease in Germany and produced rain in drought-stricken Texas.
Their beliefs can tend toward the bizarre. Some consider Freemasonry a “demonic stronghold” tantamount to witchcraft. The Democratic Party, one prominent member believes, is controlled by Jezebel and three lesser demons. Some prophets even claim to have seen demons at public meetings. They’ve taken biblical literalism to an extreme. In Texas, they engage in elaborate ceremonies involving branding irons, plumb lines and stakes inscribed with biblical passages driven into the earth of every Texas county.
If they simply professed unusual beliefs, movement leaders wouldn’t be remarkable. But what makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government. The new prophets and apostles believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take “dominion” over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the “Seven Mountains” of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world. They believe they’re intended to lord over it all. As a first step, they’re leading an “army of God” to commandeer civilian government.
In Rick Perry, they may have found their vessel. And the interest appears to be mutual.
| 74 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:46:13pm |
Nazi Jihadists? What's next, vegan butchers?
Federal prosecutors have charged Emerson Begolly, the Nazi uniform wearing Pennsylvania man being held for allegedly biting an FBI agent who tried to question him about his activity on jihadist websites, with inciting violent attacks in the United States.
| 75 |
iceweasel Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:46:51pm |
re: #71 Gus 802
But Robert Byrd!!...
No wait that doesn't work here. ;)
//
Someone should make a Wingnut Argument Generator, where the answers are all like that.
But Reverend Wright!
But Saul Alinsky!
...etc.
| 76 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:46:59pm |
It's hilarious how they're so afraid of Media Matters. Media Matters is this tiny organization compared to News Corp. It's like David and Goliath. Yet News Corp is like an elephant on a stool screaming in fear at a mouse on the floor.
| 77 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:48:05pm |
re: #75 iceweasel
Someone should make a Wingnut Argument Generator, where the answers are all like that.
But Reverend Wright!
But Saul Alinsky!...etc.
I'm just asking questions. //
| 79 |
iceweasel Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:49:38pm |
re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That's an excellent article-- pageworthy, imo.
| 81 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:50:34pm |
Sad, and embarrassing, way to die.
Owner of killer bear chokes to death on sex toy (actual headline)
Mazzola had a sex toy in his throat, which apparently obstructed his breathing, Miller said. He was also wearing a leather mask with the eyes and mouth zipped shut and a two-piece metal sphere covering his head, the coroner told The Morning Journal.
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:50:43pm |
re: #67 Big Steve
"the worst media scandal of all time"...worse than the media manufacturing the Spanish American war?
That did flash through my mind...
| 83 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:50:56pm |
Wow, there really is nothing on this out in the right-wing blogosphere. They're just ignoring it like it's not happening.
Too funny.
| 84 |
harlequinade Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:50:57pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Yes. And it appears The Sunday Times did too.
There's been reports of News International staff trying to delete e-mails from that period too.
Over here, he's been compelled to come to parliament and answer questions. Tuesday, him, his son, and the editor at the time of the Milly Dowler affair are all appearing.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...] That's todays coverage. Somewhere they've got the day by day archives too.
It's... Every day someone says "This is history in the making." For the past 2 weeks.
The irony? He's looking to open a Sun on Sunday by the first weekend in August. It's going to be interesting to see how that goes down.
| 85 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:51:48pm |
re: #83 Obdicut
Wow, there really is nothing on this out in the right-wing blogosphere. They're just ignoring it like it's not happening.
Too funny.
*tumbleweeds*
*lonely whistlin' wind*
*a single cough in the distance*
*creaking shutter*
| 86 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:52:59pm |
re: #79 iceweasel
That's an excellent article-- pageworthy, imo.
I would have, but my shitty office out of band connection wouldn't let me create a page.
| 87 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:53:51pm |
OT...
Schiff Amendment to Provide FY 2012 Funding for James Webb Space Telescope Rejected
The full House Appropriations Committee had been meeting for almost 3 1/2 hours yesterday when Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) rose to offer an amendment to provide $200 million for the James Webb Space Telescope in the FY 2012 Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations Bill. A vote was pending on the House floor, and House Appropriations Committee Chairman Harold Rogers (R-KY) was ready to take a final vote to pass the bill. After brief comments by Schiff and Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman Frank Wolf (R-VA) a voice vote was called, and the amendment was rejected.
Schiff's amendment would have moved $200 million from NASA's Cross Agency Support budget, for which the bill allocated approximately $3 billion. This amendment was one of several that sought to transfer money from this budget category to other programs. All were rejected....
| 88 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:54:20pm |
re: #83 Obdicut
Wow, there really is nothing on this out in the right-wing blogosphere. They're just ignoring it like it's not happening.
Too funny.
I even checked to see if they're discussing this in the comments at Hot Air. Nothin'
| 89 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:56:01pm |
Wowsers! Hot damn and pop the cork on the 'pagne... it's RAINING!
*returning to your regularly scheduled stuff now*
| 90 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:57:35pm |
re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
...
New Apostolic Reformation
the “Seven Mountains” of society,
C. Peter Wagner, Chuck Pierce, gang's all here.
Anyone interested in what a typical prayer call looks like can see this one concerning a Chuck Pierce "prophecy over" Florida. [Link: www.generals.org...]
There is TONS of this stuff. I have some hard copies of NAR/spiritual warfare materials, newsletters, maps, etc., in my stacks.
| 91 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:57:51pm |
re: #83 Obdicut
Wow, there really is nothing on this out in the right-wing blogosphere. They're just ignoring it like it's not happening.
Too funny.
But doesn't this just mean that the inoculated right-wing base has little chance of understanding that they have been played, thus making some kind of mass catharsis on the right impossible? I mean, lets face it, about 30-40 percent of the population literally believes that anything that the (non-Fox) MSM says that isn't corroborated by Fox is a deliberate fabrication designed to discredit the right, and that the right is axiomatically correct by definition.
These people think that people like you and me are literally working for Satan, and its not like this is some tiny minority. It's a huge number of people. I don't see how that kind of crazy can just be wound down. It's much easier to call for a jihad than it is to call off said jihad. I just don't see how all that pent-up impotent rage is going to dissipate, especially given that the economy is going to be in rough shape for as much as a decade, maybe even more.
Look at the Rick Perry thing. Look at Texas in general. If Fox doesn't feed their need to feel like victims, somebody else will. I think people are being a tad too optimistic when they imply that the hard right can any longer be marginalized. That ship, I think, has sailed. They are mainstreamed now.
| 92 |
iceweasel Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:58:41pm |
re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I would have, but my shitty office out of band connection wouldn't let me create a page.
Just did it for you and gave you the credit. :)
| 93 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 12:59:40pm |
| 94 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:00:12pm |
| 95 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:00:37pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
I don't think they can keep up ignoring it forever, and I don't think that they can spin it in any particular way.
Look at the Rick Perry thing. Look at Texas in general. If Fox doesn't feed their need to feel like victims, somebody else will. I think people are being a tad too optimistic when they imply that the hard right can any longer be marginalized. That ship, I think, has sailed. They are mainstreamed now.
They're mainstreamed, but they're also splintered.
The next election will tell, really; there's no way one candidate can deliver to all the diverse maniacs in the GOP right now.
| 96 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:00:55pm |
re: #81 darthstar
Sad, and embarrassing, way to die.
Owner of killer bear chokes to death on sex toy (actual headline)
Yeah, ya just gotta wonder what the hell was going on there.
| 97 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:02:15pm |
re: #65 darthstarlleave this be: these sort of attacks only strengthen her resolve.
| 98 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:02:20pm |
re: #96 makeitstop
Yeah, ya just gotta wonder what the hell was going on there.
I wonder if he was with a 'bear' when he died. They don't say who the "assistant" was.
| 99 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:02:22pm |
re: #96 makeitstop
Yeah, ya just gotta wonder what the hell was going on there.
Got to have another safety besides a safe word...
| 100 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:03:10pm |
Meanwhile back in America.
@latimes Los Angeles Times
UC board approves second tuition increase for fall term
| 101 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:04:02pm |
re: #99 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Got to have another safety besides a safe word...
I'd think it would be hard to say the safe word with a rubber ball shoved down your throat.
| 102 |
William of Orange Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:04:08pm |
The most amazing thing about this investigation is that the evidence is coming from a REPUBLICAN lawmaker!!
Biting that hand that feeds?
| 103 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:04:15pm |
re: #83 Obdicut
Wow, there really is nothing on this out in the right-wing blogosphere. They're just ignoring it like it's not happening.
Too funny.
Hey, remember when everybody here at LGF was afraid to discuss the Anthony Weiner scandal?
Me neither.
| 104 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:05:06pm |
re: #101 darthstar
I'd think it would be hard to say the safe word with a rubber ball shoved down your throat.
Like I said, thats why you need another safety.
| 105 |
William of Orange Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:05:43pm |
Murdoch's US citizenship should be revoked if this was true and proven and that he knew about it. Back to Oz with that bastard.
| 106 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:05:46pm |
re: #101 darthstar
I'd think it would be hard to say the safe word with a rubber ball shoved down your throat.
Or a rubber...whatever.
This one's right up there with 'two wet suits.'
| 107 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:05:59pm |
re: #95 Obdicut
I don't think they can keep up ignoring it forever, and I don't think that they can spin it in any particular way.
They're mainstreamed, but they're also splintered.
The next election will tell, really; there's no way one candidate can deliver to all the diverse maniacs in the GOP right now.
I like your optimism. I wish I could just kind of take it and stick it in my head and replicate it. I think part of my pessimism recently stems from having recently moved to Florida. The amount of right-wing stupid here eclipses anything I have ever seen before. Now, if places like Texas are even worse, that's frightening to me.
I just have to keep reminding myself that its at least partly regional. Here's hoping the right fractures into a million squabbling little factions. They are partway there, to be sure, but not completely. Now, if Fox tumbles due to family infighting at the same time the right needs them to most to hold things together in crazyland, I see great possibilities.
Now all we need is a major breakthrough in nuclear fusion, and humanity's problems are solved! (Ok, maybe not all of them, but man would that be awesome.)
| 108 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:06:36pm |
re: #105 William of Orange
Murdoch's US citizenship should be revoked if this was true and proven and that he knew about it. Back to Oz with that bastard.
But...but... He paid Reagan damn good money for that citizenship!!
| 109 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:06:42pm |
re: #102 William of Orange
The most amazing thing about this investigation is that the evidence is coming from a REPUBLICAN lawmaker!!
Biting that hand that feeds?
Perhaps just seeing the writing on the wall, and unwilling to go down with the ship.
| 110 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:07:15pm |
re: #106 makeitstop
Or a rubber...whatever.
This one's right up there with 'two wet suits.'
And a ball gag?
//
| 111 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:07:40pm |
re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Like I said, thats why you need another safety.
Okay...if you see excessive bleeding or my skin turns blue, stop or at least slow down.
| 112 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:07:41pm |
re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Like I said, thats why you need another safety.
Perhaps a better safe word might have been "MmmmmMMmmmMMmm!!!!"
| 113 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:07:50pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
But doesn't this just mean that the inoculated right-wing base has little chance of understanding that they have been played, thus making some kind of mass catharsis on the right impossible?
I would say so. But I can tell you from my own experience this will cause enough serious cognitive dissonance to shake a lot of people -- how many is impossible to say. When I was younger I had no idea I was going to have a crisis of faith by age 20, but this was during the televangelist scandals years. I was in a literal hotbed of the stuff and much of these same ideas that are just now making the news were the norm.
Now, for me, I clung to the beliefs even harder at first, especially the antigay beliefs -- there was a lot at stake personally to do so. But after those scandals happening on such a huge scale and so many people coming to terms with having literally been bilked, one is forced to either confront the lies you have been told for 2 decades, or not. Like you say, too, a lot will choose not to.
That's just a personal view but I know a lot of people are turned off/disappointed by Esther/Palin and with Fox being so publicly questioned....who knows the effects. All I can say is, wait a few years.
| 114 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:09:23pm |
re: #107 Fozzie Bear
Their best candidate is a Mormon, and I think that's going to cause really, really ugly infighting.
We'll see.
| 115 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:09:50pm |
re: #111 darthstar
Okay...if you see excessive bleeding or my skin turns blue, stop or at least slow down.
Apparently, it was an "unattended death", which means handcuffed and left there.
Someone didn't know how to play safe. Lots of modern gear has quick release stuff for an emergency.
Or so I've been told.
| 116 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:10:38pm |
re: #114 Obdicut
Their best candidate is a Mormon, and I think that's going to cause really, really ugly infighting.
We'll see.
Mormons are Free Masons, who are demon worshippers, dontcha know?
/
| 117 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:11:56pm |
re: #113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I think part of it is just being 36 years old. I am exactly of the age where I have witnessed the country inexorably moving to the right, without interruption, for pretty much the entirety of my life. I am not old enough to remember the times before Reagan, and I am not young enough to accept this kind of hysteria as 'normal', due to a lack of anything to compare it to.
Does that make sense? I think (moderate and liberal) people in my age group are probably the most disheartened of all due to this.
| 118 |
Kronocide Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:12:34pm |
re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Like I said, thats why you need another safety.
I think skin turning blue would be a good safety.
| 119 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:12:50pm |
re: #114 Obdicut
Their best candidate is a Mormon, and I think that's going to cause really, really ugly infighting.
We'll see.
And oddly, if it were to come to that it will be the secular liberals and liberal Christians who will end up defending him from the pitchforks.
| 120 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:13:06pm |
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:13:50pm |
| 123 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:14:43pm |
re: #122 Martinsmithy
Rathergate was Dan Rather honestly thinking he was onto something, and failing to factcheck out of ideological blindness.
This is an entirely different deal.
| 124 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:14:55pm |
| 125 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:15:05pm |
re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
And oddly, if it were to come to that it will be the secular liberals and liberal Christians who will end up defending him from the pitchforks.
Heh. I'll defend Romney as "not Satan" loudly and frequently, if it means that Obama is running against someone with whom I merely disagree in 2012, rather than somebody who is batshit fucking insane, and whose presidency would likely spell the end of (or at least an interruption in) western civilization. (I'm looking at you, Perry, Palin, and Bachmann)
| 127 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:15:36pm |
Rather was fooled. Fox is doing the fooling. Biiiiiig difference.
| 128 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:17:01pm |
re: #102 William of Orange
The most amazing thing about this investigation is that the evidence is coming from a REPUBLICAN lawmaker!!
Biting that hand that feeds?
To be fair, Peter King is all about Peter King. After the Giffords shooting he introduced legislation that would have made it illegal to have a gun within 1000 feet of any government official.
re: #122 Martinsmithy
Worse than RatherGate?
By several orders of magnitude.
| 129 |
William of Orange Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:17:14pm |
re: #109 Fozzie Bear
Perhaps just seeing the writing on the wall, and unwilling to go down with the ship.
In hindsight, Glenn Beck could be the lucky bastard in this. He left the sinking ship before it was sinking.
| 130 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:17:43pm |
re: #127 Fozzie Bear
Rather was fooled. Fox is doing the fooling. Biiig difference.
by who?....he was not fooled
| 131 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:18:35pm |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
Fox Article: Murdochs to Testify in U.K. on Phone-Hacking Scandal as FBI Opens Investigation
Wow, that's pretty straight reporting for Fox.
Let's see what Fox Nation can mangle it into.
| 132 |
Martinsmithy Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:18:45pm |
Also, unless News of the World tactics were copied by Fox News, I don't see what this has to do with that particular organization, other that is is also part of a multi-billion dollar media empire with lots of tentacles around the world.
| 133 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:19:31pm |
re: #129 William of Orange
In hindsight, Glenn Beck could be the lucky bastard in this. He left the sinking ship before it was sinking.
the old adage...
I'd sooner be lucky than smart
| 134 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:19:46pm |
re: #131 makeitstop
Wow, that's pretty straight reporting for Fox.
Let's see what Fox Nation can mangle it into.
You have to read five paragraphs down to find out Fox News is owned by News Corp.
| 135 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:19:50pm |
Something for Charles to consider for the Sanity Break...guitar strings as seen from inside the guitar.
| 136 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:20:18pm |
re: #132 Martinsmithy
Also, unless News of the World tactics were copied by Fox News, I don't see what this has to do with that particular organization, other that is is also part of a multi-billion dollar media empire with lots of tentacles around the world.
McDonald's recipe for Special sauce in New York, Brisbane, or London.
It's how successful brands are built.
| 137 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:20:34pm |
re: #130 albusteve
by who?...he was not fooled
If you look at the entirety of Rather's career, and the way he has lived his life, it's hard to conclude that he willingly threw it all away on bullshit. It strains credibility, I think.
I think Rather had a bias which made him likely to believe that the papers were real, and that this bias was manipulated. I think Rather really thought those papers were the real deal. I could of course be wrong, but I don't think I am.
| 138 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:21:02pm |
re: #135 darthstar
Something for Charles to consider for the Sanity Break...guitar strings as seen from inside the guitar.
[Video]
now that's just too cool
| 139 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:21:06pm |
PIMF: McDonald's recipe for Special sauce is the same in New York, Brisbane, or London.
| 140 |
lawhawk Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:22:27pm |
So far, the Guardian hasn't been able to confirm the Daily Mail's claims that News Corp's affiliates hacked voice mail accounts of 9/11 victims.
The FBI should help clear up whether some kind of malfeasance occurred on that front.
And none of this detracts from the fact that News Corp and Murdoch are in serious trouble with the mess on the UK side of the Pond.
If the FBI does find that happened here, the gig will be up in a big way and the repercussions of that are huge.
| 141 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:22:28pm |
re: #138 albusteve
now that's just too cool
You can hear the phone vibrating as he hits the notes. But yeah, very cool.
| 142 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:22:30pm |
re: #117 Fozzie Bear
I think part of it is just being 36 years old. I am exactly of the age where I have witnessed the country inexorably moving to the right, without interruption, for pretty much the entirety of my life. I am not old enough to remember the times before Reagan, and I am not young enough to accept this kind of hysteria as 'normal', due to a lack of anything to compare it to.
Does that make sense? I think (moderate and liberal) people in my age group are probably the most disheartened of all due to this.
Oh I dunno. Us old hippies may have you beat on the disheartened scale. We lived through some pretty dramatic and wonderful change with the civil rights acts, women's rights, reproductive rights, environmental regs, and more to see it being dismantled piece by piece. Plus we've been getting punched for longer... not that score keeping helps any. It all blows scat cooties.
| 143 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:22:37pm |
re: #122 Martinsmithy
Worse than RatherGate?
One is not like the other. As far as NOTW goes of course it's "worse" than Rather Gate. People have already been arrested and are facing jail time and/or other form of judicial punishment in the UK. This has also spread to the herein mentioned FBI investigation of New Corp in the USA. Rather Gate is barely a blip on the radar screen compared to this.
| 144 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:23:12pm |
re: #135 darthstar
Something for Charles to consider for the Sanity Break...guitar strings as seen from inside the guitar.
[Video]
So cool! It's like a mechanical oscilloscope or something. (Of course, that's literally what a guitar is, on some level)
| 145 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:24:39pm |
re: #117 Fozzie Bear
I think part of it is just being 36 years old. I am exactly of the age where I have witnessed the country inexorably moving to the right, without interruption, for pretty much the entirety of my life. I am not old enough to remember the times before Reagan, and I am not young enough to accept this kind of hysteria as 'normal', due to a lack of anything to compare it to.
Does that make sense? I think (moderate and liberal) people in my age group are probably the most disheartened of all due to this.
Yeah, I def don't want to sound like some uphill/bothways/inthe snow type, but I'm not that much older than you. Seriously, all that stuff I just mentioned happened in the late 80s, and I have also seen a really extreme rightward drift (though imo, it's nothing new at all, just more of the same old anti-integration bellyaching from the states rights crowd, really.) I've also witnessed the beginning and end of DADT, what will be the end of DOMA, and positive lgbt images in the general culture, unheard of in the late 80s. So it's a mixed bag. Interesting times.
| 146 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:25:40pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Heh.
"Or so you've been told".
| 147 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:27:09pm |
re: #145 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, I agree that there has been a lot of good in that time period. I should try to remind myself of that. It's sure as hell a lot easier to be a woman/gay/black than it was 30 years ago, and that is a wonderful thing.
I guess I just never would have imagined when I was a teenager or in my early 20's that the backlash against all that would be so extreme.
| 148 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:27:26pm |
re: #117 Fozzie Bear
I think part of it is just being 36 years old. I am exactly of the age where I have witnessed the country inexorably moving to the right, without interruption, for pretty much the entirety of my life. I am not old enough to remember the times before Reagan, and I am not young enough to accept this kind of hysteria as 'normal', due to a lack of anything to compare it to.
Does that make sense? I think (moderate and liberal) people in my age group are probably the most disheartened of all due to this.
I'm 37, what you're seeing is a polarization reaction. The country isn't really moving to the right, but the right wingers in the country are reacting with apoplectic fury to the changes in our society. The fact is that things are much better than when we were kids, the bigotry (racism, sexism, homophobia) that they used to be able to express with impunity is no longer acceptable in many if not most circles, so they're doubling down in a last gasp effort.
I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of pudwacks suddenly cried out in anger, and were suddenly silenced.
| 149 |
lawhawk Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:27:36pm |
re: #143 Gus 802
I'd put this scandal on a level just below that of the kind of that which helped bring the US into the Spanish American war, and just above that of Rathergate.
All three are examples of how partisanship and blinded ideologies are used by journalists to push an agenda that can have serious consequences beyond the written word.
| 150 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:28:32pm |
re: #143 Gus 802
One is not like the other. As far as NOTW goes of course it's "worse" than Rather Gate. People have already been arrested and are facing jail time and/or other form of judicial punishment in the UK. This has also spread to the herein mentioned FBI investigation of New Corp in the USA. Rather Gate is barely a blip on the radar screen compared to this.
the FBI on your ass is the end...you will not escape if you are guilty...they can white collar your ass, or smash down your door...whatever it takes, those guys are primo
| 151 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:28:42pm |
re: #142 allegro
Oh I dunno. Us old hippies may have you beat on the disheartened scale. We lived through some pretty dramatic and wonderful change with the civil rights acts, women's rights, reproductive rights, environmental regs, and more to see it being dismantled piece by piece. Plus we've been getting punched for longer... not that score keeping helps any. It all blows scat cooties.
Cheer up. Considering how stoned everyone was, I'm surprised half of your stuff took. (Not a hippie--a post-Beat.)
| 152 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:29:08pm |
Looks like Obama has his work cut out for him...
"Republican Candidate" Extends Lead vs. Obama to 47% to 39%
Margin marks first statistically significant lead among registered voters
by Jeffrey M. Jones
PRINCETON, NJ -- Registered voters by a significant margin now say they are more likely to vote for the "Republican Party's candidate for president" than for President Barack Obama in the 2012 election, 47% to 39%. Preferences had been fairly evenly divided this year in this test of Obama's re-election prospects...
Image: bbgpj1qvyeompyf1t0jdag.gif
That's Gallip BTW. Not Rasmussen.
| 153 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:30:19pm |
re: #148 goddamnedfrank
There is a lot of pent-up rage on the extreme right at seeing a (half) black man as President. A certain degree of propriety prevents these people from shouting that out loud in so many words, so they vent their rage through any other channel that presents itself.
I would just as soont hat they shout "we hate n**** and should't have one as preisent!" than to listen to all thei other crap they have glommed onto to compensate.
| 154 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:30:29pm |
re: #151 Decatur Deb
Cheer up. Considering how stoned everyone was, I'm surprised half of your stuff took. (Not a hippie--a post-Beat.)
Was?
| 155 |
Jimmah Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:30:35pm |
re: #2 SpaceJesus
bring the whole thing down.
As The Redskins said back in 85, on a similar topic...
| 156 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:31:08pm |
re: #147 Fozzie Bear
Yeah, I agree that there has been a lot of good in that time period. I should try to remind myself of that. It's sure as hell a lot easier to be a woman/gay/black than it was 30 years ago, and that is a wonderful thing.
I guess I just never would have imagined when I was a teenager or in my early 20's that the backlash against all that would be so extreme.
It's an endless war, and our grandchildren will have to re-fight some of the terrain. I'm training mine for it.
| 157 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:31:13pm |
re: #152 Gus 802
Looks like Obama has his work cut out for him...
"Republican Candidate" Extends Lead vs. Obama to 47% to 39%
Image: bbgpj1qvyeompyf1t0jdag.gif
That's Gallip BTW. Not Rasmussen.
Heh, some unnamed magical Republican who likely doesn't exist.
;)
| 158 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:31:54pm |
My next door neighbor in the apartment complex I now live in periodically screams the word "Jesus" at the top of his lungs, over a 5-10 second period, in a manner that makes me wonder what in the blue blazes is going on over there. He's also a terribly nice guy, and his wife gave us some rather delicious cookies when we moved in.
It's all very weird. My neighbor in PA was also extremely, frighteningly fervently religious. If I believed in such things, I would conclude this is just my karma, and the universe is trying to tell me something.
| 159 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:31:55pm |
re: #144 Fozzie Bear
So cool! It's like a mechanical oscilloscope or something. (Of course, that's literally what a guitar is, on some level)
It's an optical iluusion, the strings don't actually move like that. It has to do with the frame rate of the video. Still an interesting phenomenon. I sused to be able to tune a guitar in a dark room with an old school television. Once you figure out what rate the tv strobes at it's pretty easy.
| 160 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:32:45pm |
re: #152 Gus 802
Looks like Obama has his work cut out for him...
"Republican Candidate" Extends Lead vs. Obama to 47% to 39%
Image: bbgpj1qvyeompyf1t0jdag.gif
That's Gallip BTW. Not Rasmussen.
Worrying, but not overly just yet. Generic candidates generally do very well in such polls, but when they start putting a name and face there, the numbers become a little less solid.
| 161 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:32:53pm |
re: #157 Varek Raith
Heh, some unnamed magical Republican who likely doesn't exist.
;)
That's not how to prepare for the big game though. People don't win election on personal optimism. It should be a call to arms for people that want Obama to win. They can either contribute money or volunteer.
| 162 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:32:57pm |
re: #152 Gus 802
"fantasy girlfriend based on various Penthouse articles beats real-life wife 59% to 41%"
what candidate? a fantasy combination of low taxes, law and order, small government, strong military, family values?
Just like a combination of hot, beautiful, sensual and into balding, middle-aged men with beer bellies.
| 163 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:34:05pm |
re: #162 ralphieboy
"fantasy girlfriend based on various Penthouse articles beats real-life wife 59% to 41%"
what candidate? a fantasy combination of low taxes, law and order, small government, strong military, family values?
Just like a combination of hot, beautiful, sensual and into balding, middle-aged men with beer bellies.
I've been around politics since 1975. If it looks like it's going to rain, bring an umbrella.
| 164 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:34:13pm |
re: #159 Killgore Trout
It's an optical iluusion, the strings don't actually move like that. It has to do with the frame rate of the video. Still an interesting phenomenon. I sused to be able to tune a guitar in a dark room with an old school television. Once you figure out what rate the tv strobes at it's pretty easy.
Yeah, but if you think about it, the sample rate of the camera mirrors the frequency setting of an oscilloscope. It's effectively the same thing, just with light instead of electrical pulses.
I watched that video twice. You can even see irregular waveforms, rather than just simple sine waves. Very, very cool.
| 165 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:34:19pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
That's not how to prepare for the big game though. People don't win election on personal optimism. It should be a call to arms for people that want Obama to win. They can either contribute money or volunteer.
Fair enough.
I'm just amused by the term 'generic Republican'.
What's it mean???
| 166 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:36:59pm |
re: #165 Varek Raith
Fair enough.
I'm just amused by the term 'generic Republican'.
What's it mean???
That means "any Republican". The question was "Thinking about the presidential election in November 2012, are you more likely to vote for Barack Obama or for the Republican Party's candidate for president?"
Here's a PDF of the methodology, etc.
| 167 |
Jimmah Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:37:05pm |
re: #158 Fozzie Bear
My next door neighbor in the apartment complex I now live in periodically screams the word "Jesus" at the top of his lungs, over a 5-10 second period, in a manner that makes me wonder what in the blue blazes is going on over there.
AOL customer maybe? ;-)
| 168 |
ProBosniaLiberal Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:37:22pm |
re: #105 William of Orange
Is there precedent for that?
re: #108 makeitstop
Is that part true, I had never heard of it.
My curiosity is if this scandal spreads to the other Anglo-American states, which are Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
I'm also wondering if this brings down Cameron's government.
| 169 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:37:56pm |
re: #165 Varek Raith
Fair enough.
I'm just amused by the term 'generic Republican'.
What's it mean???
whatever you want it to...it's the new millenium...but I will bet my butt that there are millions of republicans that would not tolerate the exposed racism and bigotry that their leaders are vomiting....voters are the most ignorant class of people out there...people are apolitical til they pull the lever
| 170 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:38:30pm |
re: #158 Fozzie Bear
My next door neighbor in the apartment complex I now live in periodically screams the word "Jesus" at the top of his lungs, over a 5-10 second period, in a manner that makes me wonder what in the blue blazes is going on over there. He's also a terribly nice guy, and his wife gave us some rather delicious cookies when we moved in.
It's all very weird. My neighbor in PA was also extremely, frighteningly fervently religious. If I believed in such things, I would conclude this is just my karma, and the universe is trying to tell me something.
Wasn't joking about the neighbor with the 12-gauge who got messages from God (after he died and came back), though that was in KY. His children assured us they had taken the firing pin.
| 171 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:39:05pm |
re: #162 ralphieboy
"fantasy girlfriend based on various Penthouse articles beats real-life wife 59% to 41%"
what candidate? a fantasy combination of low taxes, law and order, small government, strong military, family values?
Just like a combination of hot, beautiful, sensual and into balding, middle-aged men with beer bellies.
So do you plan on contributing money or volunteering for Obama in 2012?
| 172 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:41:27pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
So do you plan on contributing money or volunteering for Obama in 2012?
giving money directly to a party is insanity
| 173 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:41:38pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
So do you plan on contributing money or volunteering for Obama in 2012?
I will wait and wee who the Republicans put up against him first and how badly the economy is faring next summer.
I am currently expecting food and gasoline prices to peak in late October of next year, along with unemployment, all of which will be laid at Obama's door for not doing enough to ensure our supplies of cheap food and energy.
| 174 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:41:41pm |
| 175 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:41:44pm |
Here's why Rupert changed his mind about testifying....
Phone hacking: both Murdochs agree to face MPs following jail threat
A threat of imprisonment by parliament forced Rupert Murdoch and his son James to perform a volte face and agree to give evidence next week to a Commons committee investigating why News International executives provided false information to MPs.
Man, he's in some deep shit.
| 176 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:42:05pm |
re: #163 Gus 802
I've been around politics since 1975. If it looks like it's going to rain, bring an umbrella.
True enough. But even the best weatherman gets it wrong from time to time. Remember "It's the economy, stupid!" back in '04? Or all the folks saying that Hillary had it in the bag in '07 and Obama would be a flash in the pan, as a set-up for a future presidential run? Hell, how about in '08, all the talk that Obama's campaign had approached Hillary to be his VP?
Not saying that I believe Obama to be in a good spot. What I am saying is that a generic Republican, an empty suit that voters can jam their hopes and dreams into, will always have an edge over a flesh-and-blood candidate.
| 177 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:42:07pm |
re: #172 albusteve
giving money directly to a party is insanity
Right. It's right here...
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
| 178 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:42:39pm |
| 179 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:44:02pm |
re: #176 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Not saying that I believe Obama to be in a good spot.What I am saying is that a generic Republican, an empty suit that voters can jam their hopes and dreams into, will always have an edge over a flesh-and-blood candidate.
That has been the Tea Party's appeal: up to now, it has been able to remain a blank canvas onto which conservatives can project all their ideals of what they think their government should be.
Obama is forcing them to show just what that canvas is hiding behind the whitewash.
| 180 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:44:22pm |
re: #173 ralphieboy
I will wait and wee who the Republicans put up against him first and how badly the economy is faring next summer.
I am currently expecting food and gasoline prices to peak in late October of next year, along with unemployment, all of which will be laid at Obama's door for not doing enough to ensure our supplies of cheap food and energy.
This right here is the stuff of my nightmares, because I don't see it as incredibly unlikely. I mean, lets face it, the economy isn't going to improve significantly any time soon, and people do tend to blame the president, rightly or wrongly, for the state of the economy.
| 181 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:44:34pm |
re: #176 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Not saying that I believe Obama to be in a good spot. What I am saying is that a generic Republican, an empty suit that voters can jam their hopes and dreams into, will always have an edge over a flesh-and-blood candidate.
Especially the flesh and blood candidates they've got.
| 182 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:45:24pm |
I'll take an empty suit over a zealot, any day.
| 183 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:46:01pm |
re: #166 Gus 802
That means "any Republican". The question was "Thinking about the presidential election in November 2012, are you more likely to vote for Barack Obama or for the Republican Party's candidate for president?"
Here's a PDF of the methodology, etc.
Yeah, but what happens when 'Generic Republican' has an actual name and positions?
In my mind, asking about a generic Republican is rather meaningless, since he/she has no name, positions or anything of the like.
| 184 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:46:21pm |
re: #180 Fozzie Bear
That is exactly what is in store: gasoline prices will peak, the industry is oligarchic enough to manage that, and it will also not take much from agribusiness and the commodities market to ensure problems with food prices. For most Americans, those are the two major items on the budget after rent, and they will tighten the screws massively.
| 185 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:47:21pm |
White House E-mails Show Anti-Fox Bias
Internal Obama administration emails obtained by Judicial Watch provide evidence that FNC was specifically singled out for exclusion. According to one October 22, 2009, email exchange between Dag Vega, Director of Broadcast Media on the White House staff, to Jenni LeCompte, then-Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs in the Treasury Department, Vega informs LeCompte that “…we’d prefer if you skip Fox please.”Regarding general anti-FNC bias within the Obama White House in an October 23, 2009, email exchange between Jennifer Psaki, Deputy White House Communications Director and LeCompte, Psaki writes, “I am putting some dead fish in the fox cubby – just cause.” In an email on the night of October 22, 2009, commenting on a report by Fox News Channel anchor Bret Baier noting the exclusion of the network from the pool, Psaki writes to Compte and fellow White House colleagues, “…brett baier just did a stupid piece on it -- but he is a lunatic.”
Heh
| 186 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:47:53pm |
re: #166 Gus 802
That means "any Republican". The question was "Thinking about the presidential election in November 2012, are you more likely to vote for Barack Obama or for the Republican Party's candidate for president?"
Here's a PDF of the methodology, etc.
It's like one of those fantasy stories where if you speak a demon's true name he loses his power.
"Generic republican" is one bad-ass mofo.
Once you get to the "I name thee Bachmann Pawlenty Paul Palin Romney Huntsman Gingrich Santorum Cain! Leave this mortal plain, foul demon!" part -- not so much.
| 187 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:48:49pm |
re: #183 Varek Raith
Yeah, but what happens when 'Generic Republican' has an actual name and positions?
In my mind, asking about a generic Republican is rather meaningless, since he/she has no name, positions or anything of the like.
Well. We'll see. Until that time comes then everyone can stay home and not worry. It's written in stone afterall. Obama will win in 2012 so there's no sense in doing anything.
| 189 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:49:32pm |
Reagan mythology is leading US off a cliff
Entirely forgetting the real history of how Franklin D Roosevelt used activist government to save American capitalism from itself, the entire US political establishment is instead hypnotised by the false history woven around its most over-hyped president of all time: Ronald Reagan. Idolatry of Reagan's supposed tax-cutting wonders propels the now widespread economic belief that up is down, that cutting government spending is the way out of - rather than into - a severe recession. At the same time, idolatry of Reagan's supposed political wonders propels GOP extremists to ignore all other considerations.
Because of this hypnotism, America's political establishment has barely even begun to notice two unconventional possible ways out that remain, neither of which require anything from Congress, but both of which need bold presidential leadership ala FDR.
The first is to ignore the debt ceiling, relying directly on the 14th Amendment's statement that: "the validity of the public debt of the United States … shall not be questioned". The second is a proposal from maverick Republican Ron Paul to have the Federal Reserve Board destroy the $1.6 trillion in government bonds that it currently holds, which progressive economist Dean Baker recently wrote, "actually makes a great deal of sense". It might take some arm-twisting on Obama's part, but Congress has no say over the Fed, and central bankers have no great love of spreading financial panic.
In anything close to a sane world, either one of these two bold strokes would be widely hailed for avoiding a reckless threat to the still-fragile world economy. But we do not live in a sane world, and the idolatry of Ronald Reagan is one of the principal reasons why. This is why it behoves us to review some of the biggest lies involved with Ronald Reagan's record, focusing specifically on the economy. What follows is but a brief rundown.
| 190 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:49:32pm |
Good grief.
Been watching the House Oversight Committee on CSPAN and the GOP is complaining about Elizabeth Warren and the CFPB creating "economic uncertainty".
Wanna know what creates economic uncertainty?
This damn game of chicken with the debt ceiling the GOP is playing.
Fools.
| 193 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:50:22pm |
re: #187 Gus 802
Well. We'll see. Until that time comes then everyone can stay home and not worry. It's written in stone afterall. Obama will win in 2012 so there's no sense in doing anything.
That's not what I'm saying.
| 194 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:50:28pm |
re: #187 Gus 802
Well. We'll see. Until that time comes then everyone can stay home and not worry. It's written in stone afterall. Obama will win in 2012 so there's no sense in doing anything.
You have to consider voter burnout in it as well, Gus. I can't speak for all folks on this board, but I know I'm not exactly sitting on a wealth of time or money to devote to the Obama campaign for 12+ months.
| 195 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:50:34pm |
re: #184 ralphieboy
That is exactly what is in store: gasoline prices will peak, the industry is oligarchic enough to manage that, and it will also not take much from agribusiness and the commodities market to ensure problems with food prices. For most Americans, those are the two major items on the budget after rent, and they will tighten the screws massively.
Yep, and its not like there is anything which can credibly substitute for liquid transportation fuels. The cost of petroleum is directly and firmly linked to the cost of virtually every commodity we consume, and the cost of petroleum isn't going to go down ever again. At least, not in the medium and long term. (I.e., it will fluctuate upward pretty much forever from here on out.)
And we still haven't had a frank conversation about it as a country. The good times are done, time for a generation of contraction and austerity. It's not because of debt, the debt is a symptom of the larger problem. It's certainly a problem exacerbated by bad banking practices, but really, people who think the problem is simply an institutional issue confined to the financial system are deluding themselves.
| 196 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:51:30pm |
re: #177 Gus 802
Right. It's right here...
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
That came up with my email address already filled in. I gave 'em $5 last month because they said I could win dinner with Obama.
| 197 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:51:42pm |
re: #191 albusteve
lies?...I can't tell anymore
Maybe, but I'd guess partially true. Somebody went through a bunch of emails and collected all the anti-fox stuff. Not really a big deal. I can't imagine why the White House would be nice to them.
| 198 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:52:57pm |
re: #185 Killgore Trout
White House E-mails Show Anti-Fox Bias
Heh
In other news, Pravda feels it was unfairly slandered by the US during the cold war. /
| 200 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:53:17pm |
re: #183 Varek Raith
Yeah, but what happens when 'Generic Republican' has an actual name and positions?
In my mind, asking about a generic Republican is rather meaningless, since he/she has no name, positions or anything of the like.
Generic is a decent Republican, but he'll never make it through the primaries.
| 201 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:53:23pm |
re: #197 Killgore Trout
Maybe, but I'd guess partially true. Somebody went through a bunch of emails and collected all the anti-fox stuff. Not really a big deal. I can't imagine why the White House would be nice to them.
Gee, considering the amount of ODS bullshit coming out of FoxNews I can't possible imagine why the WH is...ambivalent towards them.
| 202 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:53:25pm |
the 'debt ceiling' escapade is 90% drama....designed to sway voters, and bet me...it will all go away soon enough...no blood, no foul...AmIdol rules state that you must man the parapet until all else fails...self created heros
| 203 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:53:31pm |
re: #196 wrenchwench
That came up with my email address already filled in. I gave 'em $5 last month because they said I could win dinner with Obama.
I've been on that mailing list since the election. Never signed up for it. Prolly because of a visit or something like that.
| 204 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:54:14pm |
re: #192 BongCrodny
My text has been disappearing whenever I respond to someone who uses a (blue) link in their post.
I must be doing something incorrectly. Anybody have any idea what it might be?
| 205 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:54:57pm |
Authorities say a U.S. Army private is in custody after trying to bring a small amount of explosives on board a United Airlines flight from Arizona to Los Angeles.U.S. Attorney's spokesman Robbie Sherwood says 19-year-old Pfc. Christopher Eric Wey was detained Wednesday after Transportation Security Administration screeners at the airport in Yuma found about a quarter-ounce of military explosives in his bags.
He was arrested and charged Thursday with attempting to carry an explosive onto an aircraft and transporting a stolen explosive. A criminal complaint alleges that Wey stole the C4 explosive at a recent training course and that there's no sign he intended to harm anyone.
Sherwood says an attorney was appointed for Wey at an initial court appearance in Yuma, but lawyer's name wasn't immediately available.
I'm glad they were able to find a quarter ounce of C-4. Dogs?
| 206 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:55:01pm |
re: #204 BongCrodny
My text has been disappearing whenever I respond to someone who uses a (blue) link in their post.
I must be doing something incorrectly. Anybody have any idea what it might be?
use the "quote" button. Just sayin'
/
| 207 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:55:07pm |
re: #204 BongCrodny
My text has been disappearing whenever I respond to someone who uses a (blue) link in their post.
I must be doing something incorrectly. Anybody have any idea what it might be?
Did you use a safe word?
| 208 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:56:03pm |
I'm reaching new heights of cynicism...heh...
my mom said I was a good boy, and I didn't believe her...my own mom lying to me
| 209 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:56:25pm |
re: #205 wrenchwench
I'm glad they were able to find a quarter ounce of C-4. Dogs?
I knew a dumbass who kept 2 popup flares after an exercise and then tried to take them in his carry on bag on a commercial flight.
| 210 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:56:43pm |
re: #203 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've been on that mailing list since the election. Never signed up for it. Prolly because of a visit or something like that.
I got on it in 2008 by checking their ability to tell me whether I was registered. They could.
| 211 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:57:39pm |
re: #205 wrenchwench
I'm glad they were able to find a quarter ounce of C-4. Dogs?
If he didn't have a cap with it, he's just a screw-up.
| 212 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:57:40pm |
re: #187 Gus 802
Well. We'll see. Until that time comes then everyone can stay home and not worry. It's written in stone afterall. Obama will win in 2012 so there's no sense in doing anything.
I'm not seeing anyone saying that. We're just putting that poll into perspective.
I'm still using the same techniques I did before 2008 and that is to drop information piece by piece into the brains of the low information voters I know to educate them about what is going on and how the GOP is now populated by fuckwits who are taking the middle class out - something that is readily apparent to them but not understood why and how it's happened. I've gotten quite a few of them to the voting booth that way.
| 213 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:57:41pm |
Why mercury is not allowed on airplanes: (It's not because it's poisonous.)
| 214 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:58:56pm |
re: #211 Decatur Deb
If he didn't have a cap with it, he's just a screw-up.
a portable stove...no big deal...he just wanted hot beans before he boarded, the boonie rat
| 215 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:59:07pm |
re: #206 Cannadian Club Akbar
use the "quote" button. Just sayin'
/
I've been using the quote button. Same thing happened yesterday; I typed a reply to someone's post and all that showed up were the infamous three dots.
| 216 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 1:59:56pm |
re: #215 BongCrodny
I've been using the quote button. Same thing happened yesterday; I typed a reply to someone's post and all that showed up were the infamous three dots.
Do you Preview?
| 217 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:00:31pm |
re: #215 BongCrodny
I've been using the quote button. Same thing happened yesterday; I typed a reply to someone's post and all that showed up were the infamous three dots.
I had the same thing happen a couple weeks ago. Can't remember if I just refreshed or what.
| 218 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:00:32pm |
| 219 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:00:50pm |
re: #196 wrenchwench
That came up with my email address already filled in. I gave 'em $5 last month because they said I could win dinner with Obama.
That's the way you do it and every little bit counts. False optimism can lead to catastrophic results -- regardless of ideology. Even optimism based on anecdotal rationalization or personal observation with the best intentions. Worst possible scenarios are when people stay home on election day because of this false hope or optimism. This can happen with either party.
| 220 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:01:40pm |
re: #192 BongCrodny
Are you using Internet Explorer by any chance?
| 221 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:02:19pm |
re: #214 albusteve
a portable stove...no big deal...he just wanted hot beans before he boarded, the boonie rat
Nothing like cooking with explosives.
| 222 |
Four More Tears Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:02:49pm |
Not an Apple fan, but I must this is pretty spiffy on an iPad.
| 223 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:03:30pm |
re: #221 Varek Raith
Nothing like cooking with explosives.
it's not explosive without electricity...that's the point here
| 224 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:03:42pm |
OT- couple didn't secure their python, it killed their 2 y/o, guilty...
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]
| 225 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:04:06pm |
re: #219 Gus 802
That's the way you do it and every little bit counts. False optimism can lead to catastrophic results -- regardless of ideology. Even optimism based on anecdotal rationalization or personal observation with the best intentions. Worst possible scenarios are when people stay home on election day because of this false hope or optimism. This can happen with either party.
I like being at risk--we don't need another Scott Brown/Massachusetts campaign.
| 226 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:04:55pm |
re: #192 BongCrodny
Yes, I see that you are -- there's the problem. IE does some weird things with HTML tags, when you're grabbing them with Javascript; leaves off quotation marks and generally mangles the code.
If you quote that comment again, but before posting it take a close look at the <A> tag in the quoted section you'll see what I mean.
| 227 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:05:30pm |
re: #195 Fozzie Bear
Fuel and food prices are going rise regardless, the point of the excercise will be to blame it all on Obama for neglecting our energy industry (which is only looking out for our welfare) or doing enough for America's farmers (most of whom have long since been bought out or taken over by agribusiness).
| 228 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:05:54pm |
People who care about web developers don't let their friends use IE. It's just cruel.
| 230 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:06:36pm |
re: #228 Fozzie Bear
People who care about web developers don't let their friends use IE. It's just cruel.
LONG LIVE IE!
LONG LIVE WINDOWS ME!
/
| 231 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:07:06pm |
re: #219 Gus 802
That's the way you do it and every little bit counts. False optimism can lead to catastrophic results -- regardless of ideology. Even optimism based on anecdotal rationalization or personal observation with the best intentions. Worst possible scenarios are when people stay home on election day because of this false hope or optimism. This can happen with either party.
Preach it!
One Twitterer that Stanley and I follow has formed Team Fuck Yeah. She's taking on the Firebaggers (as she calls 'em), the ones who want to primary Obama. #TFY
| 232 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:07:43pm |
re: #230 Varek Raith
LONG LIVE IE!
LONG LIVE WINDOWS ME!
/
A web developer somewhere just exploded like the drummer from Spinal Tap because you said that.
| 233 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:07:56pm |
| 235 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:08:20pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
A web developer somewhere just exploded like the drummer from Spinal Tap because you said that.
I know!
Muhahahaha!
| 236 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:08:43pm |
| 237 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:08:55pm |
Oh man the firebaggers piss me off. If ever there were a perfect example of a group of people cutting off their collective nose to spite their faces, it's them.
| 238 |
Stanghazi Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:09:24pm |
re: #224 Cannadian Club Akbar
OT- couple didn't secure their python, it killed their 2 y/o, guilty...
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]
That is just HORRIBLE.
| 240 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:10:31pm |
re: #237 Fozzie Bear
Oh man the firebaggers piss me off. If ever there were a perfect example of a group of people cutting off their collective nose to spite their faces, it's them.
Also, lets not forget: Hilary Clinton's campaign invented the birther meme, and pushed it out into the world. The GOP just picked up where she left off.
So as far as I am concerned, the better candidate won. Using racism as a campaign tool is beyond the pale.
| 241 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:10:35pm |
| 242 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:10:48pm |
re: #238 Stanley Sea
That is just HORRIBLE.
I know. They secured the top of the snake tank with a shaw and something ties around it. State law says it needs to be locked. Idiotic.
| 243 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:10:57pm |
re: #237 Fozzie Bear
Oh man the firebaggers piss me off. If ever there were a perfect example of a group of people cutting off their collective nose to spite their faces, it's them.
Oy, ideological purity ain't a good thing
| 244 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:11:25pm |
re: #231 wrenchwench
Preach it!
One Twitterer that Stanley and I follow has formed Team Fuck Yeah. She's taking on the Firebaggers (as she calls 'em), the ones who want to primary Obama. #TFY
Yeah. Primary Obama. That'll work. Sheesh what are they thinking? Perhaps a protest vote against Obama by voting for Ralph Nader? Is he running again?
| 246 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:12:17pm |
re: #237 Fozzie Bear
Oh man the firebaggers piss me off. If ever there were a perfect example of a group of people cutting off their collective nose to spite their faces, it's them.
I hang out over at Balloon Juice, and the place is crawlin' with them. Every post they make is how Obama = Bush and he's 'selling us out' on one thing or another every day of the week.
Talk about making the perfect the enemy of the good...
| 247 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:12:18pm |
re: #243 Varek Raith
Oy, ideological purity ain't a good thing
Indeed. If you ever find yourself choosing on the basis of "which is perfect" rather than "which is better", it's a pretty sure sign you have lost your marbles, imo.
| 248 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:12:25pm |
re: #244 Gus 802
Yeah. Primary Obama. That'll work. Sheesh what are they thinking? Perhaps a protest vote against Obama by voting for Ralph Nader? Is he running again?
Maybe they'll nominate a ham sandwich???
| 249 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:13:02pm |
| 250 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:13:17pm |
The thing is, I think it's pretty likely somebody will primary Obama. Luckily, Ron Paul has thrown his hat in the ring on the right, so hopefully it'll all balance out.
| 251 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:13:39pm |
re: #243 Varek Raith
Oy, ideological purity ain't a good thing
And we know which party is trying to do that now? The Republicans of course. With this three ring circus of theirs. Sorry GOP. But Romney is about their only hope. I'm going off on a tangent again.
| 252 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:13:48pm |
re: #241 Charles
Is that "AngryBlackLady?"
She's great. I don't think there's a stronger defender of Obama anywhere, except maybe in the West Wing.
Plus, she's damn funny. Political points are always better made with a little humor.
| 253 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:14:04pm |
re: #251 Gus 802
And we know which party is trying to do that now? The Republicans of course. With this three ring circus of theirs. Sorry GOP. But Romney is about their only hope. I'm going off on a tangent again.
How's about Gravel?
| 254 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:14:59pm |
re: #246 makeitstop
I hang out over at Balloon Juice, and the place is crawlin' with them. Every post they make is how Obama = Bush and he's 'selling us out' on one thing or another every day of the week.
Talk about making the perfect the enemy of the good...
There ya' go. That another example of "apathy." Not really apathy but you know what I mean. I think.
| 255 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:15:27pm |
re: #254 Gus 802
There ya' go. That another example of "apathy." Not really apathy but you know what I mean. I think.
Meh, can't be bothered.
/
| 256 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:15:28pm |
re: #246 makeitstop
I hang out over at Balloon Juice, and the place is crawlin' with them. Every post they make is how Obama = Bush and he's 'selling us out' on one thing or another every day of the week.
Talk about making the perfect the enemy of the good...
I've never hung out there, but it seemed reasonable. I never read the comments, but ABL's tweets make it sound -- unpleasant.
| 257 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:15:36pm |
re: #244 Gus 802
Yeah. Primary Obama. That'll work. Sheesh what are they thinking? Perhaps a protest vote against Obama by voting for Ralph Nader? Is he running again?
net heads can be goofy fuckers...way too much free time...which reminds of stuff I have to do....net bloggers are either unemployed, post from work and get paid for it, or are retired...not a very conclusive cross section of American thought, more like an elitist club that spends 12 hours a day bitching to each other and then deciding they are the heartbeat of America...monumental bullshit
| 258 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:16:24pm |
We need a president with terminal Cancer or something similar. Somebody who has literally nothing to lose by making difficult choices, who just can't give a fuck about getting re-elected, and who cares only about their long-term legacy.
I say this because there are a lot of deeply unpopular things which need to be done. And nobody is doing them.
| 259 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:16:59pm |
re: #255 Varek Raith
Meh, can't be bothered.
/
Obama's just a conservative!
McCain's another liberal!
Wait, what?
//
| 260 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:17:21pm |
| 261 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:17:30pm |
re: #249 wrenchwench
Yes.
I love me some AngryBlackLady, she showed up at the Further Confusion hotel last year accidentally (I guess it's her regular hotel for San Jose or whatever) and was like "WHAT THE BALLS ALL THESE ANIMAL COSTUMES WEIRDOS" on the blog
So from our drunken room party, a friend of mine are posting messages to her. "Hey, you're at our con! We are full on fans of Balloon Juice!"
| 262 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:17:55pm |
re: #258 Fozzie Bear
We need a president with terminal Cancer or something similar. Somebody who has literally nothing to lose by making difficult choices, who just can't give a fuck about getting re-elected, and who cares only about their long-term legacy.
I say this because there are a lot of deeply unpopular things which need to be done. And nobody is doing them.
A second term with the 2-term limit it supposed to do that. I thought.
| 263 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:18:43pm |
Look, primarying Obama is No Big Deal. Seriously, who can you think of that has the money and presence to challenge him?
It's actually a problem in the Democratic ranks right now. Who is lining up as the 2016 candidate at this time?
My opinion is that this would be an ideal time for some strong potential candidates to get their feet wet. Every candidate I've ever heard or read discussing it says that regardless of other experience there is NOTHING that compares to actually running for president.
| 264 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:19:14pm |
re: #252 makeitstop
She's great. I don't think there's a stronger defender of Obama anywhere, except maybe in the West Wing.
Plus, she's damn funny. Political points are always better made with a little humor.
ABL is hilarious. I love reading her. John Cole is great too, especially when he gets into a snit about something.
Cole had his own Why I Parted Ways With the Right moment back during the Schiavo fiasco, so watching him eviscerate the same people he used to defend is priceless.
| 265 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:19:48pm |
re: #262 wrenchwench
A second term with the 2-term limit it supposed to do that. I thought.
I think we should extend it to 6 years. Meaning to replace 4 years with 6. This way we get a good 4 years of governing with 2 years of campaigning.
| 266 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:20:20pm |
re: #263 kirkspencer
Look, primarying Obama is No Big Deal. Seriously, who can you think of that has the money and presence to challenge him?
It's actually a problem in the Democratic ranks right now. Who is lining up as the 2016 candidate at this time?
My opinion is that this would be an ideal time for some strong potential candidates to get their feet wet. Every candidate I've ever heard or read discussing it says that regardless of other experience there is NOTHING that compares to actually running for president.
I don;t think anyone can successfully primary him. I *DO* think, however, that a failed primary bid that transforms into a third-party candidate on the left could split the left and hand president crazypants republicanface the presidency.
| 267 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:20:40pm |
re: #258 Fozzie Bear
We need a president with terminal Cancer or something similar. Somebody who has literally nothing to lose by making difficult choices, who just can't give a fuck about getting re-elected, and who cares only about their long-term legacy.
I say this because there are a lot of deeply unpopular things which need to be done. And nobody is doing them.
I recall some discussion once on changing the law to give the President a single six-year term.
| 268 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:20:44pm |
re: #237 Fozzie Bear
Oh man the firebaggers piss me off. If ever there were a perfect example of a group of people cutting off their collective nose to spite their faces, it's them.
I always figured Firedoglake was searching for their "brand" to set them apart from the crowded field of more reasonable liberal blogs, and being ragey primary-Obama, is now their brand, and attracts a very specific species of not-very-reasonable liberal
| 269 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:21:35pm |
re: #256 wrenchwench
I've never hung out there, but it seemed reasonable. I never read the comments, but ABL's tweets make it sound -- unpleasant.
Reading the comments over there are definitely the pixelated equivalent of a pie fight.
But ABL does go out of her way to, umm, engage them. It's pretty funny most of the time, but it does get repetitive after a while.
Oh! Just saw this - Eric Bolling 'doesn't remember any domestic terrorism between 2000 and 2008.
Really, Eric? Not a single terror event? Really??
| 272 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:22:42pm |
re: #265 Gus 802
I think we should extend it to 6 years. Meaning to replace 4 years with 6. This way we get a good 4 years of governing with 2 years of campaigning.
They have one 6-year term in Mexico.
Not that I'm suggesting it.
Maybe since 60 is the new 40 and all that, they should increase all the terms: four years in the House, eight in the senate, six in the White House, and two life terms on the Supreme Court.
| 273 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:22:45pm |
re: #266 Fozzie Bear
I don;t think anyone can successfully primary him. I *DO* think, however, that a failed primary bid that transforms into a third-party candidate on the left could split the left and hand president crazypants republicanface the presidency.
Ah, but primarying and third party candidate are not the same, not by a long shot.
I invite you to look at third party candidates who've had an effect, for that matter, with the specific question of which primaried, then ran third party.
I really don't think it's a worry.
| 274 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:23:17pm |
re: #270 Gus 802
I think the James Webb Space Telescope won't make it. Assholes.
This is just maddening. Canceling the project won't bring back the several billion already spent on it. It will, however, ensure that we know a shitload less about the universe than we could know.
| 275 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:23:57pm |
re: #273 kirkspencer
Ah, but primarying and third party candidate are not the same, not by a long shot.
I invite you to look at third party candidates who've had an effect, for that matter, with the specific question of which primaried, then ran third party.
I really don't think it's a worry.
Nader and Gore.
| 276 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:24:09pm |
re: #264 Lidane
Cole had his own Why I Parted Ways With the Right moment back during the Schiavo fiasco, so watching him eviscerate the same people he used to defend is priceless.
I was gonna mention that. It's funny how the two blogs I hang out at are both run by people who are capable of changing their minds when evidence dictates they do so.
| 277 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:24:11pm |
re: #268 WindUpBird
I always figured Firedoglake was searching for their "brand" to set them apart from the crowded field of more reasonable liberal blogs, and being ragey primary-Obama, is now their brand, and attracts a very specific species of not-very-reasonable liberal
They're appealing to the PUMA, hard left moonbat kooks who got marginalized by the Dems ages ago.
| 278 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:24:42pm |
re: #272 wrenchwench
They have one 6-year term in Mexico.
Not that I'm suggesting it.
Maybe since 60 is the new 40 and all that, they should increase all the terms: four years in the House, eight in the senate, six in the White House, and two life terms on the Supreme Court.
Let's here it for two life terms! Wait. How will we pull that off?
//
| 279 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:24:45pm |
re: #269 makeitstop
Reading the comments over there are definitely the pixelated equivalent of a pie fight.
But ABL does go out of her way to, umm, engage them. It's pretty funny most of the time, but it does get repetitive after a while.
Oh! Just saw this - Eric Bolling 'doesn't remember any domestic terrorism between 2000 and 2008.
Really, Eric? Not a single terror event? Really??
O. Willis has his own blind spot. He called Charles (our genial host) a racist.
| 280 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:24:59pm |
re: #278 Gus 802
Let's here it for two life terms! Wait. How will we pull that off?
//
Zombie justices.
| 281 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:25:48pm |
re: #269 makeitstop
Reading the comments over there are definitely the pixelated equivalent of a pie fight.
But ABL does go out of her way to, umm, engage them. It's pretty funny most of the time, but it does get repetitive after a while.
Oh! Just saw this - Eric Bolling 'doesn't remember any domestic terrorism between 2000 and 2008.
Really, Eric? Not a single terror event? Really??
Just for a small portion of that time... the FBI's domestic terrorism report for 2002-2005: [Link: www.fbi.gov...]
| 282 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:26:14pm |
re: #258 Fozzie Bear
We need a president with terminal Cancer or something similar. Somebody who has literally nothing to lose by making difficult choices, who just can't give a fuck about getting re-elected, and who cares only about their long-term legacy.
I say this because there are a lot of deeply unpopular things which need to be done. And nobody is doing them.
My fellow Americans: the missiles are flying. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. *Unplugs respirator*
| 283 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:26:34pm |
| 285 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:26:48pm |
re: #279 wrenchwench
O. Willis has his own blind spot. He called Charles (our genial host) a racist.
I looked right past the source and went for the video.
I read Willis long, long ago. He fell off my radar right around when Bush got re-elected.
| 286 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:27:47pm |
re: #283 kirkspencer
Nader didn't primary Gore.
No he didn't. He did, however, cost Gore quite a few votes in the general election, in an election season where literally a few votes made the difference.
| 287 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:28:20pm |
re: #274 Fozzie Bear
This is just maddening. Canceling the project won't bring back the several billion already spent on it. It will, however, ensure that we know a shitload less about the universe than we could know.
What are they doing with the mirrors and hardware? EBay?
| 288 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:28:35pm |
| 289 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:28:50pm |
re: #287 Decatur Deb
What are they doing with the mirrors and hardware? EBay?
Maybe we can start a museum of what could have been were there not so many stupid people in the US.
| 290 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:29:02pm |
re: #283 kirkspencer
Nader didn't primary Gore.
My parent voted for Nader in 2000. Instead of Gore. I stayed home because Lieberman was his running mate. Sort of stayed on the sidelines since Clinton's second term.
| 292 |
Varek Raith Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:29:42pm |
re: #288 Varek Raith
I literally was in the bathroom washing my face and muttering to myself: How the fuck do they know how many calories are in a live raccoon? Who the hell eats a live raccoon (besides, like, Bear Grylls)? Why am I talking to myself?
| 293 |
lizardofid Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:29:59pm |
re: #286 Fozzie Bear
No he didn't. He did, however, cost Gore quite a few votes in the general election, in an election season where literally a few votes made the difference.
Wasn't Perot and H W Bush a sililar situation IIRC?
| 294 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:30:00pm |
re: #290 Gus 802
My parent voted for Nader in 2000. Instead of Gore. I stayed home because Lieberman was his running mate. Sort of stayed on the sidelines since Clinton's second term.
Yep. Had Nader not run, Gore would have. I'm not blaming Nader, but the numbers don't lie. Most Nader voters were on the left, and Gore lost by a handful of votes.
| 295 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:31:14pm |
Interesting twist: Arrested News Of The World editor worked for Scorland Yard
This is the most pernicious part of Murdoch's empire. You've got guys going back and forth between his media outlets and law enforcement and government.
And people are wondering how they made the phone hacking happen?
| 296 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:31:30pm |
re: #294 Fozzie Bear
Yep. Had Nader not run, Gore would have. I'm not blaming Nader, but the numbers don't lie. Most Nader voters were on the left, and Gore lost by a handful of votes.
They should name a national military cemetery for Nader.
| 297 |
Political Atheist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:31:43pm |
re: #275 Fozzie Bear
You forgot Perot. Bush 41 would have had twp terms. Very little doubt about it. And BTW, IMO Hilary could give Obama a run for it without terrible consequences. Might attract some indy's.
| 298 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:32:22pm |
re: #286 Fozzie Bear
No he didn't. He did, however, cost Gore quite a few votes in the general election, in an election season where literally a few votes made the difference.
But that is an entirely different thing than your original objections. You were objecting to a primary challenge because you feared the primary candidate would then go third party.
Since you're now raising a more valid concern - a third party challenger - I'm going to argue against it. Not in general, this time, but in specific. Who?
Who do you know at this time who has name recognition to challenge 5 to 10% of the Left Side vote, who has expressed an interest in running, who has the money and/or backing to get on the ballots of enough states to matter?
Nader and Perot, the last two to do this, were both open and active by this point.
Frankly, the only person I can think of at this point who can run as a spoiler third party is not on the Left. Palin would pull votes from the Right, instead.
| 299 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:32:39pm |
re: #295 makeitstop
Interesting twist: Arrested News Of The World editor worked for Scorland Yard
This is the most pernicious part of Murdoch's empire. You've got guys going back and forth between his media outlets and law enforcement and government.
And people are wondering how they made the phone hacking happen?
In other words, they knew precisely how illegal what they were doing was.
| 300 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:32:44pm |
re: #288 Varek Raith
Heh, ABL is great.
Fox News Compares Number of Calories in Michelle Obama’s Meal to “Eating a Live Raccoon”
Do live raccoons have more calories or something?
And did they need to use a raccoon?
| 302 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:32:58pm |
re: #293 lizardofid
Wasn't Perot and H W Bush a sililar situation IIRC?
Greetings, re-hatchling.
/I don't mean anything by that, just, it's been a while....
| 303 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:33:35pm |
re: #297 Rightwingconspirator
You forgot Perot. Bush 41 would have had twp terms. Very little doubt about it. And BTW, IMO Hilary could give Obama a run for it without terrible consequences. Might attract some indy's.
I think Mrs. Clinton getting the SoS gig was an insurance policy against that sort of thing.
Besides, he out-campaigned her the first time around. I don't think she'd be able to beat his this time, either.
| 304 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:35:24pm |
re: #303 makeitstop
I think Mrs. Clinton getting the SoS gig was an insurance policy against that sort of thing.
Besides, he out-campaigned her the first time around. I don't think she'd be able to beat his this time, either.
The Firebaggers would dance in the streets if she did run. Everybody else would wonder about the wisdom of another Clinton in the White House.
| 305 |
lizardofid Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:37:00pm |
re: #302 wrenchwench
I've been lurking, but just recently figured out how to log in on this machine. (Didn't really have much to add anyhow)
Thanks though for the greet!
| 306 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:37:28pm |
re: #297 Rightwingconspirator
You forgot Perot. Bush 41 would have had twp terms. Very little doubt about it. And BTW, IMO Hilary could give Obama a run for it without terrible consequences. Might attract some indy's.
If she ran as a third party, maybe. However, I don't think she thinks she would win as third party - she's got up close experience of both the recent challengers (Perot and Nader). So if she tried, it'd be as another Dem Primary. IF she did that I think she'd stand a very good chance of overcoming Obama this time - buyer's remorse in effect.
And I don't think it'd weaken the Dem vote in the general whether she won or lost.
| 307 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:38:35pm |
re: #305 lizardofid
I've been lurking, but just recently figured out how to log in on this machine. (Didn't really have much to add anyhow)
Thanks though for the greet!
A nic like that should not be kept hidden!
| 308 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:38:48pm |
re: #298 kirkspencer
But that is an entirely different thing than your original objections. You were objecting to a primary challenge because you feared the primary candidate would then go third party.
Since you're now raising a more valid concern - a third party challenger - I'm going to argue against it. Not in general, this time, but in specific. Who?
Who do you know at this time who has name recognition to challenge 5 to 10% of the Left Side vote, who has expressed an interest in running, who has the money and/or backing to get on the ballots of enough states to matter?
Nader and Perot, the last two to do this, were both open and active by this point.
Frankly, the only person I can think of at this point who can run as a spoiler third party is not on the Left. Palin would pull votes from the Right, instead.
I think you are right in part and wrong in part. I don't see a viable candidate to do this on the left at this point, but I do see the disillusionment on the part of much of the left to propel such a candidate should one arise. I also don't think it would necessarily take a 5-10 percent showing on the part of a third party candidate to tank Obama. A few percentage points could do it, given the state of the economy.
Regardless, I hope you are right, and Esther runs as an independent after losing the primary. That would certainly help Obama's chances next year.
| 309 |
Political Atheist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:38:56pm |
re: #274 Fozzie Bear
Looks like you did more reading than I did.
What is that thing going to cost to finish, and what if they shelve it for a fiscal year and then finish it?That has happened to satellite programs before.
| 311 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:40:57pm |
re: #309 Rightwingconspirator
Looks like you did more reading than I did.
What is that thing going to cost to finish, and what if they shelve it for a fiscal year and then finish it?That has happened to satellite programs before.
I've seen estimates around a billion and a half more needed to finish it, and about 5 billion spent so far. It would be several orders of magnitude better than Hubble, and possibly allow us our first glimpses at the birth of the universe.
These numbers I tossed out are approximately correct, but I didn't take the time to look them up again. I'm going from memory.
| 312 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:41:06pm |
[Ralph Nader's] Statement on Fluoridation, June 3 2011
In a statement released in Washington, DC today (Friday, June 3) consumer advocate Ralph Nader, responding to growing media coverage and developments in the Atlanta area on the risks posed by water fluoridation, said,
"It's way overdue for this country to have an extended and open scientific and regulatory debate on fluoridation. There should be no mandatory fluoridation without the approval of people in a public referendum preceded by full and open public debate with disclosures. There is an old Roman law adage that says, 'What touches all should be decided by all.'"
This statement is being sent to the editors of the Atlanta Journal Constitution. In recent weeks statements calling for a repeal of mandatory fluoridation in Georgia have been made by a number of prominent civil rights leaders including former Atlanta mayor Andrew Young, Rev. Gerald Durley, and Bernice King, daughter of Martin Luther King Jr.
[burp]
| 313 |
Political Atheist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:42:18pm |
re: #303 makeitstop
He has lost his charismatic "I'll close Gitmo & get us out of Iraq" shine. She could take him as a Dem. Or...
I have floated this before, but Biden should step away and let Hilary become VP. Tougher ticket to beat and a prime set up for the Dems on 2016. That would really shake up the race.
| 314 |
lizardofid Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:43:25pm |
re: #307 wrenchwench
A nic like that should not be kept hidden!
Thanks, I'll try to be less invisible ;)
But not today, time to hit join the traffic, later all.
| 315 |
Fozzie Bear Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:43:51pm |
re: #311 Fozzie Bear
I've seen estimates around a billion and a half more needed to finish it, and about 5 billion spent so far. It would be several orders of magnitude better than Hubble, and possibly allow us our first glimpses at the birth of the universe.
These numbers I tossed out are approximately correct, but I didn't take the time to look them up again. I'm going from memory.
JWST was supposed to be finished by June 2014 and to cost about $5.1 billion. An independent review panel, however, last fall determined it would likely cost $6.5 billion and not be finished until September 2015. This is of course not a good thing, but it’s nothing new. In fact, there was a NASA project that was supposed to launch in 1983, but didn’t make it into space until 1990, and by the time it launched it had cost triple its original budget — about $11 billion in 2011 dollars. In the 21 years since its launch it has cost many billions more in servicing missions.
I refer, of course, to the Hubble Space Telescope, whose cost overruns were outlined in a General Accounting Office (now Government Accountability Office) report in 1992 (PDF). Yes, Hubble has cost the U.S. a substantial amount of money, but its contributions to science have been of incalculable worth: the way we look at the universe has changed in ways we could never have predicted before the telescope’s launch.
| 316 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:48:57pm |
re: #313 Rightwingconspirator
He has lost his charismatic "I'll close Gitmo & get us out of Iraq" shine. She could take him as a Dem. Or...
I have floated this before, but Biden should step away and let Hilary become VP. Tougher ticket to beat and a prime set up for the Dems on 2016. That would really shake up the race.
I agree that the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate should be the veep in 2012, but I think not Hillary. I don't know who, though. But not Biden.
| 317 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:49:14pm |
re: #313 Rightwingconspirator
He has lost his charismatic "I'll close Gitmo & get us out of Iraq" shine. She could take him as a Dem. Or...
I have floated this before, but Biden should step away and let Hilary become VP. Tougher ticket to beat and a prime set up for the Dems on 2016. That would really shake up the race.
Too unusual. Hillary would get close to zero support from the DNC if she ran. Obama already has a massive war chest exceeding the GOP. That being said she could be the next VP however. And it's also true that it won't be anything like it was in 2008 regardless of that war chest. Overall it's going to be lot tougher of race especially if Romney wins the GOP nomination. A Palin or Bachmann would make it easier for him.
| 318 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:49:32pm |
re: #316 wrenchwench
I agree that the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate should be the veep in 2012, but I think not Hillary. I don't know who, though. But not Biden.
Jim Webb of Virginia?
| 320 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:52:09pm |
re: #308 Fozzie Bear
I think you are right in part and wrong in part. I don't see a viable candidate to do this on the left at this point, but I do see the disillusionment on the part of much of the left to propel such a candidate should one arise. I also don't think it would necessarily take a 5-10 percent showing on the part of a third party candidate to tank Obama. A few percentage points could do it, given the state of the economy.
Regardless, I hope you are right, and Esther runs as an independent after losing the primary. That would certainly help Obama's chances next year.
Possible. I re-checked, and Nader pulled about 2.75% of the national vote in 2000. With that he maybe (depends on analysis) blocked Gore from Florida.
Perot had a much more definite effect, getting just under 19% of the national vote. Polls indicate that about 2/3 of those were Bush voters (1/3 Clinton), and so Perot without a doubt caused Clinton's victory.
I don't see any candidate, not even Romney, who is so popular that a Nader level influence will cause an Obama loss.
I don't see any leftie who can get even Nader numbers at this time.
So the threat is akin to the generic Republican candidate threat. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.
| 321 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:52:34pm |
re: #220 Charles
Are you using Internet Explorer by any chance?
Yeah. Is that the culprit?
When I'm home, I use Firefox -- no problems.
| 322 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:56:05pm |
Obama 2012 fundraising smashes record with $86 million haul
President Barack Obama has shattered second quarter fundraising records for a White House incumbent by raising $86 million – a total that dwarfs the 2012 GOP field’s total take for the same period and that was substantially higher than his own target of $60 million.
The shock-and-awe showing was announced by Obama 2012 Campaign Manager Jim Messina, wearing his signature blue dress shirt sans tie, in a web video blasted to supporters in the pre-dawn hours on Wednesday, two days before the 15,000-page combined Obama for America and Democratic National Committee report is due to go up on a government web site.
| 323 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:56:46pm |
There ya' go. That should cheer some of you guys up after my Gallup Poll kvetching. ;)
| 324 |
Political Atheist Thu, Jul 14, 2011 2:58:43pm |
re: #311 Fozzie Bear
It's an amazing craft. Designed to operate way out there. L2? Now that's high orbit. I hope to see a space station there one day. Maybe not in my lifetime though.
| 325 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:00:16pm |
I dunno about "worst media scandal of all time". Unless Newscorp's companies somehow led us into Iraq, I think the worst scandal still goes to Hearst/Pulitzer during the Spanish-American War.
| 326 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:01:00pm |
re: #317 Gus 802
Too unusual. Hillary would get close to zero support from the DNC if she ran. Obama already has a massive war chest exceeding the GOP. That being said she could be the next VP however. And it's also true that it won't be anything like it was in 2008 regardless of that war chest. Overall it's going to be lot tougher of race especially if Romney wins the GOP nomination. A Palin or Bachmann would make it easier for him.
The other big factor in the equation is Hillary's statements. Taking her at her word, she is leaving the SoS position next year but will not run for president against Obama. She will not run (she says) in 2016, either. She hasn't been building a war chest, hasn't been meeting potential backers.
There are no leftie candidates with declarations, money, and/or backing to be viable third party candidates at this time. And just as for Republicans, the time to declare or be forgotten is running out.
Perry and Palin have till the end of this month at best. Palin's best opportunity, as R or as TP, comes next week. That interferes with Perry's chances, meaning if he's going to declare it needs to be the last week of this month.
Oh, and as one more watch; Bachmann turns in her fundraising numbers tomorrow. Next week we'll see if money matches buzz for her, and know if it's going to be a Bachmann/Romney battle, or just a lot of noise while Romney closes the deal.
| 327 |
Gus Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:06:10pm |
re: #326 kirkspencer
The other big factor in the equation is Hillary's statements. Taking her at her word, she is leaving the SoS position next year but will not run for president against Obama. She will not run (she says) in 2016, either. She hasn't been building a war chest, hasn't been meeting potential backers.
There are no leftie candidates with declarations, money, and/or backing to be viable third party candidates at this time. And just as for Republicans, the time to declare or be forgotten is running out.
Perry and Palin have till the end of this month at best. Palin's best opportunity, as R or as TP, comes next week. That interferes with Perry's chances, meaning if he's going to declare it needs to be the last week of this month.
Oh, and as one more watch; Bachmann turns in her fundraising numbers tomorrow. Next week we'll see if money matches buzz for her, and know if it's going to be a Bachmann/Romney battle, or just a lot of noise while Romney closes the deal.
True. If Hillary is planning on running in 2016 she's really not acting like it. She's basically staying under the radar save for international appearances. I will say though that she's done a very good job as SOS. I think she's exceeded everyone's expectations. Especially the more aware Republicans.
| 328 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:09:01pm |
re: #325 Spocomptonite
I dunno about "worst media scandal of all time". Unless Newscorp's companies somehow led us into Iraq, I think the worst scandal still goes to Hearst/Pulitzer during the Spanish-American War.
You could make the case that Fox News helped. But you could make the case for just about any US media outlet at the time.
I still want to retch when I think about CNN's 'America's New War' graphics.
| 329 |
BongCrodny Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:11:14pm |
re: #326 kirkspencer
That interferes with Perry's chances, meaning if he's going to declare it needs to be the last week of this month.
Perry says it's not political, but that Religion Bowl thing that he's hosting would be tailor-made for an announcement.
| 330 |
sagehen Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:57:57pm |
re: #140 lawhawk
So far, the Guardian hasn't been able to confirm the Daily Mail's claims that News Corp's affiliates hacked voice mail accounts of 9/11 victims.
The FBI should help clear up whether some kind of malfeasance occurred on that front.
And none of this detracts from the fact that News Corp and Murdoch are in serious trouble with the mess on the UK side of the Pond.
If the FBI does find that happened here, the gig will be up in a big way and the repercussions of that are huge.
Even if it didn't happen here, the Corrupt Foreign Practices Act says that American companies can't be bribing officials to advance their overseas business interests. Like, oh, paying off London cops to get info.
By strict reading of the law, this is the same as if Exxon were caught bribing a Nigerian official to get permission to drill. The company could be entirely disbanded.
HAPPY DAYDREAM -- imagine News Corp dissolved. Entirely. Their broadcast and cable permits revoked. Election 2012 with no Fox. At all. END HAPPY DAYDREAM.
(not terribly realistic, but I really enjoyed that moment).
| 331 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:12:01pm |
re: #330 sagehen
Even if it didn't happen here, the Corrupt Foreign Practices Act says that American companies can't be bribing officials to advance their overseas business interests. Like, oh, paying off London cops to get info.
By strict reading of the law, this is the same as if Exxon were caught bribing a Nigerian official to get permission to drill. The company could be entirely disbanded.
HAPPY DAYDREAM -- imagine News Corp dissolved. Entirely. Their broadcast and cable permits revoked. Election 2012 with no Fox. At all. END HAPPY DAYDREAM.
(not terribly realistic, but I really enjoyed that moment).
As I understand, News Corp's dissolution would not automatically dissolve all the subordinate corporations. Those would instead become independent.
That is, by the way, not just Fox. It's HarperCollins and NYPost and Dow Jones (Wall Street Journal and Barrons among others) and the Colorado Rockies and... the list is huge.
| 332 |
sagehen Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:18:39pm |
re: #273 kirkspencer
Ah, but primarying and third party candidate are not the same, not by a long shot.
I invite you to look at third party candidates who've had an effect, for that matter, with the specific question of which primaried, then ran third party.
I really don't think it's a worry.
Reagan didn't run third party, but his attempt to primary Gerald Ford weakened him enough to cost him the general.
| 333 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:19:58pm |
re: #332 sagehen
Reagan didn't run third party, but his attempt to primary Gerald Ford weakened him enough to cost him the general.
And the fact it was rolling off the Nixon mess had nothing to do with it?
| 334 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:27:29pm |
re: #277 Lidane
They're appealing to the PUMA, hard left moonbat kooks who got marginalized by the Dems ages ago.
Some of those are the anybody but bush 9/11 troother dissidents who don't care about getting in bed with Cynthia McKlanny, Nader, the Christian Reconstructionists from lewrockwell.com, etc. we lefties who are trying to be normal spet the '00s smacking down.
Sick of them.
| 335 |
sagehen Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:30:11pm |
re: #333 kirkspencer
And the fact it was rolling off the Nixon mess had nothing to do with it?
It was very close; there were multiple factors that were each enough to make the difference, and Reagan was one of them. (there was a huge gaffe about Poland in a debate, there was the Nixon pardon, changing vice-presidents midstream,
| 336 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:37:33pm |
re: #310 Gus 802
Not giving Elizabeth Warren a recess appointment (and using your Presidential authority to assure a recess, see attached letter) to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that she is now building at her post in the Treasury Department, will produce many stay-at-home voters. These are the Americans for whom over three years of dashed hopes in many fields view abandoning the authentically admired Professor Warren as the last straw!
Given the crimes and derelictions that looted or drained trillions of savers' and workers' money in 2008-2009 and that collapsed the economy with its resultant unemployment and bailouts, they want law and order for Wall Street.
This sums up pretty well my major disappointment(s) with Obama. It infuriates me that not only was there no price to be paid by those who created the mess we're in but that they've been actually rewarded.
| 337 |
allegro Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:45:47pm |
re: #326 kirkspencer
Perry and Palin have till the end of this month at best. Palin's best opportunity, as R or as TP, comes next week. That interferes with Perry's chances, meaning if he's going to declare it needs to be the last week of this month.
I've thought since I first heard about it that Perry will announce on Aug. 6. in fact, I think that's the whole point of the prayer meetin'.
| 338 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:54:27pm |
In Britain, it was an open secret that the police, the courts, everything, was in the pocket of News for purposes of gathering the dish on celebrities and public figures. It only became a scandal when ordinary people, you know, the sort who "deserve" to have privacy rights, were swept up into the scheme.
| 339 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 14, 2011 5:06:38pm |
re: #195 Fozzie Bear
Yep, and its not like there is anything which can credibly substitute for liquid transportation fuels. The cost of petroleum is directly and firmly linked to the cost of virtually every commodity we consume, and the cost of petroleum isn't going to go down ever again. At least, not in the medium and long term. (I.e., it will fluctuate upward pretty much forever from here on out.)
And we still haven't had a frank conversation about it as a country. The good times are done, time for a generation of contraction and austerity. It's not because of debt, the debt is a symptom of the larger problem. It's certainly a problem exacerbated by bad banking practices, but really, people who think the problem is simply an institutional issue confined to the financial system are deluding themselves.
To top it off, we really need to invest a lot in improved infrastructure, including energy systems that don't burn coal. The cheapest of these might be natural gas, which produces less CO2 per unit energy than coal, but not enough less to save the planet.
So really we have to spend a bundle on wind, solar, and nuclear. We don't necessarily have to do that with tax revenue, though. Rich people are generally willing to take the long view and postpone consumption in return for a stake in the returns from an investment. So that won't lower the standard of living of the poor and the lower-middle.
It will mean that the rich and the upper-middle have less discretionary income, and will be spending less.
Food, for most Americans, is not a problem in their budget. In fact, quite a few of us eat too much. We can ride out a doubling in the real price of food. We'd eat less, we'd sell more abroad and the proceeds from that would help pay down our foreign trade debt, and the only real losers would be---
oops, that's a problem---
the third world poor.
But there really isn't any answer to that. Rising food prices are an inevitable companion to AGW. And it's starting already.
| 340 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 14, 2011 7:02:13pm |
re: #310 Gus 802
[Ralph Nader's] Letter to President Obama
...
This letter is being sent to your political adviser David Plouffe and to Vice President Biden.
Move to trash - > Empty Trash - > Are you sure? - > Yes to all
Do not ask me again.
| 341 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:12:29am |
re: #166 Gus 802
That means "any Republican". The question was "Thinking about the presidential election in November 2012, are you more likely to vote for Barack Obama or for the Republican Party's candidate for president?"
Here's a PDF of the methodology, etc.
The day I see a Republican who admits in public they are going to vote for Obama in 2012, is the day I give the keynote at the Annual Conference of the National Hat-Eating Society.
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