Exposed: ‘Fear Inc.’ - The Anti-Muslim Hate Industry

The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America
Politics • Views: 33,664

I’m proud to share with you today a report that my friend Wajahat Ali has been working on for more than 6 months with the DC-based think tank, Center for American Progress, entitled ‘Fear Inc., The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America.’

The report can be downloaded from here: [Link: www.americanprogress.org…]

Wajahat Ali was lead researcher and writer for this expose on how just 7 groups have given $43 million over 10 years to a small, inter-connected group of people and organizations responsible for mainstreaming fear, bigotry and hate against Muslims and Islam in America.

Along with co-authors and researchers Eli Clifton, Matt Duss, Lee Fang, Scott Keyes, Faiz Shakir and the great editorial help of Ed Paisely, Tara McGuinness and Sally Steenland, Wajahat Ali has for the first time really dissected and exposed this network, categorized it, named all the names, connected the dots, traced the funding and $$ money trail, and shown the genesis of several fictitious talking points and garbage that you hear on the mainstream news such as:

  • ‘President Obama is a Muslim’
  • ‘Sharia is a threat to America’
  • ‘Mosques are Trojan Horses’
  • ‘Radical Islam has infiltrated America, the government and mainstream Muslim organizations’
  • ‘There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Traditional Islam is radical Islam’
  • ‘Practicing Muslims cannot be loyal Americans’

…and so forth.

The Network can be broken into 5 categories:

  1. The Money Trail – Funders
  2. Islamophobia Scholars and Experts
  3. Grassroots Organizations and Religious Right
  4. The Media Megaphone
  5. The Political Players

The CAP research team wrote this public report for a mainstream, wide audience. It is timely, with an election looming in which politicians and zealots are trying to exploit fear, hysteria and ignorance and divide Americans based on religious and ethnic lines. This has happened before to Jews, Catholics, Japanese Americans and Gays and Lesbians.

The facts in this report are meant to empower communities with knowledge, facts and information with the hopes of marginalizing these anti-American, divisive, fear-mongering voices so we can return to a moderate course and partake in civil discourse.

The introduction to the report has an important note about the term Islamophobia itself:

Before we begin, a word about the term ‘Islamophobia.’ We don’t use this term lightly. We define it as an exaggerated fear, hatred, and hostility toward Islam and Muslims that is perpetuated by negative stereotypes resulting in bias, discrimination, and the marginalization and exclusion of Muslims from America’s social, political, and civic life.

It is our view that in order to safeguard our national security and uphold America’s core values, we must return to a fact-based civil discourse regarding the challenges we face as a nation and world. This discourse must be frank and honest, but also consistent with American values of religious liberty, equal justice under the law, and respect for pluralism. A first step toward the goal of honest, civil discourse is to expose — and marginalize — the influence of the individuals and groups who make up the Islamophobia network in America by actively working to divide Americans against one another through misinformation.

Take a look at the report online – or download the entire report as a PDF. I will be discussing the findings and going step by step through the report in a series of posts after Ramadan concludes.

For comment on the report itself or to set up a call to discuss the report findings with your communities, feel free to contact the author, Wajahat Ali wajahatmali@gmail.com.

This post is cross-posted at my blog at Beliefnet, City of Brass. I have also been blogging about Ramadan this year and invite any and all - muslims and non muslims alike - to stop by.

Also see

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371 comments
1 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 9:01:09am

Fascinating report, I'm in the middle of reading it right now. It's amazing how much damage this relatively small group is doing with just $43 million.

2 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 9:42:28am

Looks like a fascinating read.

3 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 9:47:59am

7 groups = $43 million = grassroots!!

//

4 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 9:52:40am

Excellent post. Thank you.

5 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:06:31am

Awesome Page!
+1 (LGF) +1 (Google) & FB Like
oh and RTweet

6 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:14:18am

Now is this study considered hate speech or censorship by Crazy Pam and the Hate Brigade?

7 Alexzander  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:14:37am

Is this the second ever front page promotion?

8 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:16:11am

re: #7 Alexzander

Is this the second ever front page promotion?

I believe so. Congratulations, Aziz!

9 laZardo  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:16:57am

re: #8 wrenchwench

Registered since: Apr 12, 2010 at 11:03 am
No. of comments posted: 20
No. of Pages posted: 6

Lucky him. :D

Also congratulations!

10 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:17:04am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now is this study considered hate speech or censorship by Crazy Pam and the Hate Brigade?

Of course it is. They're the real victims, don'tcha know.

11 Big Steve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:20:12am

Call me not surprised......who do we see involved - Robert Spencer.

12 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:25:20am

what's fearful is the ridiculous, soul bending insecurity people are consumed by...bigotry protects them from themselves

13 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:29:55am

More about Donors Trust:

Donors Trust: An Anonymous Tax-Deductible Policy Slush Fund

If you're wealthy and a Republican and you like your donations to be tax-deductible whenever possible, then Donors Trust, Inc. is your kind of "charity".

14 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:31:06am

OMG I'm going to puke. A family member is on the list of donors.

15 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:31:09am

I read the part about those who promote mis-information about sharia law. I'm still where I was. I would not want to live in any country I know of that has a majority muslim population. I'm not afraid. I do not think there is any possibility of sharia becoming prevalent in the US for generations to come. But I would rather it did not occur.

16 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:31:14am
This post is cross-posted at my blog at Beliefnet, City of Brass. I have also been blogging about Ramadan this year and invite any and all - muslims and non muslims alike - to stop by.

I knew the author sounded familiar! I've read City of Brass before. Good blog. Definitely worth checking out.

17 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:32:50am

OT (Hurricane Irene blogging):
The NYC MTA is officially shutting down its transit system at noon on Saturday to prep for the storm. This includes buses, subways, LIRR, and Metro North. It will be sending its equipment to shelter at higher points along their respective systems, in bus yards, etc.

The transit system will take several hours to completely shut down - buses/trains will begin their final run at noon, which means that events like the Mets-Braves (possibly moved up to 1pm) should be canceled in light of lack of transit options. Other events are already canceled or rescheduled.

We now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast (which I've already retweeted b/c of its importance - great work!).

18 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:33:03am

As it happens this family member has NOT donated to my 501(c)(3).

19 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:35:31am

From Chapter 5 - The political players (PDF)

Let’s first take a look at how the following elected representatives at the state and national level use these strategies with undeniable success. Then we’ll look at how this well-honed political meme is likely to be put in play in the 2012 elections. Here are the key players profiled in this chapter—men and women who are misdirecting the public debate about Islam in Congress and in State Houses across the country:

• Rep. Peter King (R-NY)
• Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC)
• Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA)
• Rep. Allen West (R-FL)
• Rep. Renee Ellmers (R-NC)
• Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN)

Chapter 5 also includes an interesting “Ground Zero mosque” timeline.

20 darthstar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:36:16am

re: #18 Alouette

As it happens this family member has NOT donated to my 501(c)(3).

You have your own 501c3?

21 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:37:05am

re: #20 darthstar

You have your own 501c3?

Yes.

22 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:37:30am

re: #15 tomg51spence

Generations? You're seriously thinking Muslims might demographically take over the US?

Oy gavalt.

23 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:37:53am

downloaded. 138 isn't too big to print is it?

I like to underline, highlight and made notes in the margins.

How is everyone this morning?

24 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:40:06am

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

25 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:40:24am

re: #15 tomg51spence

I read the part about those who promote mis-information about sharia law. I'm still where I was. I would not want to live in any country I know of that has a majority muslim population. I'm not afraid. I do not think there is any possibility of sharia becoming prevalent in the US for generations to come. But I would rather it did not occur.

Good point. I don't think there is much chance of the Grays conquering the United States for generations to come either, but I would rather that not occur.

//I could live with it though.

26 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:42:15am

re: #24 Alouette

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

First World Problems?

Still, that blows.

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:42:41am

re: #24 Alouette

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

No, not me. Both my husband and I refused to be tied by apron strings to anyone.

We have friends who are Trust Fund Babies and have seen what it does.

I told my parents to spend EVERY CENT. You made it, it is your's to enjoy.

28 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:42:50am

re: #19 Gus 802

From Chapter 5 - The political players (PDF)

• Rep. Peter King (R-NY)
• Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC)
• Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA)
• Rep. Allen West (R-FL)
• Rep. Renee Ellmers (R-NC)
• Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN)

So much fail in such a small list.

Myrick is the one who pushed the laughable conspiracy theory that a bunch of Iranian secret agents, covered in Farsi tattoos, were going to Venezuela to learn Spanish, then coming here to the United States as illegal immigrants.

29 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:43:00am

It's really annoying that during a depression, with good, honest people out of work, scraping by, or sinking under, that bigots, malcontents, and racists are getting millions of dollars.

30 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:43:16am

re: #24 Alouette

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

I didn't speak to that relative for decades, and got the same pittance as my siblings who catered to her.

31 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:44:32am

The most maddening thing to me about the Anti Muslim crap is how eerie similar it is to past discrimination of Catholic, Jewish, and Japanese immigrants. You know the whole question of loyalty to the country and all that. It's sickening. We're gonna look back at this with collective disgust in coming years.

32 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:44:52am

re: #29 Obdicut

Like this:

Mr. Horowitz joins the swelling ranks of pundits and academicians earning a fat living from tax subsidized nonprofits while railing against government welfare. His pay at his nonprofit, Freedom Center, was a sweet $480,162 in 2008, the most recent tax filing available on line.[Link: www.alternet.org...]

33 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:45:41am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

The most maddening thing to me about the Anti Muslim crap is how eerie similar it is to past discrimination of Catholic, Jewish, and Japanese immigrants. You know the whole question of loyalty to the country and all that. It's sickening. We're gonna look back at this with collective disgust in coming years.

And then, sadly, another group will be the target.

34 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:46:01am

re: #15 tomg51spence

I read the part about those who promote mis-information about sharia law. I'm still where I was. I would not want to live in any country I know of that has a majority muslim population. I'm not afraid. I do not think there is any possibility of sharia becoming prevalent in the US for generations to come. But I would rather it did not occur.

Well, you need to keep things in perspective. Sharia law as practiced in Saudi Arabia is seriously nasty and evil shit. Eating a Halal Kebab in New York is nice and delicious. These are two very different things. Observing prayer or a fast is not the same as executing homosexuals and rape victims. Muslims make up roughly 1% of the US population and they are not taking over. US Courts are not enforcing sharia law. It's all nonsense.

35 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:46:23am

re: #30 wrenchwench

I didn't speak to that relative for decades, and got the same pittance as my siblings who catered to her.

These people are fucking control freaks.

36 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:46:54am

re: #32 jaunte

His pay at his nonprofit, Freedom Center, was a sweet $480,162

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking there's no money in non-profits. Some find them very profitable.

37 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:47:05am

re: #7 Alexzander

Is this the second ever front page promotion?

Yes, it is -- I'm still working on the promotion code, which is why there haven't been more yet.

38 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:47:11am

re: #24 Alouette

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

Oh the stories I have of my currently in jail uncle.

39 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:47:21am

re: #33 MrSilverDragon

And then, sadly, another group will be the target.

Human beings seem to need an enemy.

I don't understand why, but it seems to be a universal human phenom.

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:48:06am

re: #35 Alouette

These people are fucking control freaks.

Some are deluded enough to think they are building a dynasty.

41 wee fury  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:48:11am

After many bouts of thinking . . .
Control freaks save their money so that all the relatives will cater to them in hopes of receiving a windfall at their demise.
My 2 cents -- now am off to spend even that!

42 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:48:16am

Heard about this on the radio (NPR) today.

It will be interesting to see if it gets any other national-level play.

I'm sure that Fox News is on it as I type.

43 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:48:32am

re: #36 wrenchwench

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking there's no money in non-profits. Some find them very profitable.

Which is why I have issues with anything labeled Non-Profit.

44 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:48:43am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I'm hungry now, can I get some of that delicious New York Shariah shipped to Texas?

45 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:49:17am

re: #40 ggt

Some are deluded enough to think they are building a dynasty.

I am building a dynasty!

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:49:25am

re: #44 gehazi

I'm hungry now, can I get some of that delicious New York Shariah shipped to Texas?

Nah, all you can have is Tex-Mex.

47 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:49:35am

re: #35 Alouette

These people are fucking control freaks.

My gramma didn't have that much, I guess, but what she had she used to attempt to control the people around her.

48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:01am

re: #43 ggt

Which is why I have issues with anything labeled Non-Profit.

You won't find many where the ED makes 6 figures.

49 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:12am

re: #32 jaunte

$480,162. That would payoff my four immediate family's and my debt and still have money leftover for Dad to retire and the rest of us some nice spending money.

50 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:23am

re: #47 wrenchwench

My gramma didn't have that much, I guess, but what she had she used to attempt to control the people around her.

I think some think it's a way of not dying. They want to control people from beyond the grave . .

51 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:30am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

. Muslims make up roughly 1% of the US population and they are not taking over. US Courts are not enforcing sharia law. It's all nonsense.

Exactly.

Also, as I explained to a Fox News-addled relative of mine, the United States formally adopting Sharia law would involve nothing less than us abandoning our entire current system of government to make us more like Saudi Arabia. Not gonna happen. Ever.

52 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:52am

re: #43 ggt

Which is why I have issues with anything labeled Non-Profit.

I have a non-profit, and it makes no profit. I don't even pay myself for working there. But sometimes, if I sell enough stuff at the Zionist Mall, I can afford to purchase some new equipment.

53 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:53am

re: #43 ggt

Which is why I have issues with anything labeled Non-Profit.

You can actually find financial reports of non-profits; check how much of their spending is on "Administration."

54 lgffan  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:50:56am

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

55 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:51:16am

re: #43 ggt

Which is why I have issues with anything labeled Non-Profit.

They aren't all bad. But it's certainly not a Good Housekeeping Seal or anything.

56 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:51:47am

re: #46 ggt

Nah, all you can have is Tex-Mex.

Shariah Tex-Mex?

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:52:02am

re: #53 gehazi

You can actually find financial reports of non-profits; check how much of their spending is on "Administration."

I have.

Some are big business. Not by any means, all, but there are some that make me wonder if they are truly in it for the money.

58 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:52:35am

re: #56 gehazi

Shariah Tex-Mex?

no pork!

59 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:53:52am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

Hyperbole.

60 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:54:00am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

I appreciate your candor, but that is a simplistic and flat-out wrong interpretation of current events.

61 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:54:08am

re: #54 lgffan

we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

What evidence do you see for this denial?

62 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:54:14am

re: #39 ggt

Human beings seem to need an enemy.

I don't understand why, but it seems to be a universal human phenom.

A ThinkProgress commenter offers a pretty accurate explanation:

plutocrats have long understood that the best way to keep the plebes from (rightfully) laying blame at their door is to keep them distracted with a menacing scapegoat.

they do it to protect their fortunes and privileged status, and, thanks to the ignorance and credulity of many, it works.

63 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:54:22am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

Sure, there are significant numbers of Muslims in the middle east that have negative attitudes toward the United States. The crucial question is: "why?"

64 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:55:07am

re: #58 ggt

no pork!

That's okay. They sell plenty of halal meats around here in Texas. The pork won't be missed.

65 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:55:08am

Also, I kept my resume up to date while I was unemployed, by keeping current my work for the foundation, in order to avoid that "blank space on the resume" trap.

66 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:55:26am

re: #62 publicityStunted

A ThinkProgress commenter offers a pretty accurate explanation:

Patricians giving free bread and chariot races/gladitorial combat entertainment?

67 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:55:43am

re: #63 gehazi

They have their own versions of the anonymous Donors Trust, and their own versions of the out-front rabble rousers.

68 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:56:15am

re: #58 ggt

no pork!

I'll struggle by without the carnitas. But that leaves Chicken Mole Shariah, Beef Fajita Shariah, Fish Taco Shariah, and Chile Relleno Shariah.

69 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:56:27am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Observing prayer or a fast is not the same as executing homosexuals and rape victims.

Nuance!

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:57:09am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

More like a clash of mindsets -- enlightened vs. fundmanetalist.

71 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:57:33am

This works both ways. They can raise money and cause trouble. But as individuals we can oppose this crap every time we find ourselves having facetime with a bigot. Or those who are easily swayed by hate. Push back. Its worth it.

72 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:58:36am

re: #60 wrenchwench

I appreciate your candor, but that is a simplistic and flat-out wrong interpretation of current events.

It's absolutely a clash of cultures. Fear of Muslims is not much different than fear of Jews or anything that appears different. The cultures are different. Either white Americans hating on Middle Eastern Americans or the other way around.

73 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:58:40am

re: #39 ggt

Human beings seem to need an enemy.

I don't understand why, but it seems to be a universal human phenom.

I think it goes back to the Vice of Power.

Insidious as it is. Hate produces a feeling of power.

74 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:58:41am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Observing prayer or a fast is not the same as executing homosexuals and rape victims.

Slippery slope!!11!

75 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:00:13am

re: #15 tomg51spence

Islamophobia is just a cover for a much, MUCH greater threat.

Personally, I am in much more fear of a Reconstructionist Christian version of Sharia law being implemented in the United States. They are already infiltrating the courts and the highest offices of the land - and have many of their followers stating outright if they don't get what they want via legislation, they WILL resort to violence.

76 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:00:27am

re: #72 marjoriemoon

re: #70 ggt

Plus, you know, decades of Western powers meddling in Middle Eastern politics.

77 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:01:30am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

Who said anything about a "religion of peace?" I don't think anyone denies that around the world, Islam does have problems with extremist sects. But Muslims have no monopoly on hatred directed at members of other religions; there's plenty of that to go around in the world, from ALL sides.

The point of this report (as I see it) is not to whitewash Islamic extremism -- it's to expose the groups that are actively demonizing ALL Muslims and spreading irrational "shariah panic."

78 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:01:34am

re: #75 RadicalModerate

Islamophobia is just a cover for a much, MUCH greater threat.

Personally, I am in much more fear of a Reconstructionist Christian version of Sharia law being implemented in the United States. They are already infiltrating the courts and the highest offices of the land - and have many of their followers stating outright if they don't get what they want via legislation, they WILL resort to violence.

They'll have to do it for our own good, to save us from shariah.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:02:22am

re: #75 RadicalModerate

Islamophobia is just a cover for a much, MUCH greater threat.

Personally, I am in much more fear of a Reconstructionist Christian version of Sharia law being implemented in the United States. They are already infiltrating the courts and the highest offices of the land - and have many of their followers stating outright if they don't get what they want via legislation, they WILL resort to violence.

EXACTLY!

The idea is we'd better get there first!

Like it's a competition.

In reality, the extremes of both religions are pushing people to agnosticism, athieism or non-religious spiritual pursuits.

80 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:02:23am

re: #54 lgffan

Islam =/= Middle East

Multiple sects in Islam encompassing a lot of cultures and a lot of land areas besides the Middle East such as Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.

81 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:02:32am

re: #76 gehazi

re: #70 ggt

Plus, you know, decades of Western powers meddling in Middle Eastern politics.

Someone has to slap some sense into them. Granted, we haven't done all that good a job.

If you want to talk Middle East, tho, it's a whole other subject and one that seems to be getting little attention here presently other than occasionally in the Pages.

82 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:02:59am

re: #24 Alouette

Doesn't everyone have a self-righteous, nasty, narcissistic, asshole relative that your parents tell you, you HAVE TO BE NICE to, because a bunch of money might come your way someday?

And now you find out who's getting that money.

Fuck.

I'm glad I don't anymore. The last we had had 500 acres of Michigan Upper Peninsula farm land and cedar swamps. Prime whitetail country for us to hunt on when we got permission. Took a huge 7 pointer (3x4) +250 lbs buck myself in the oak grove. Well my Dad, Uncles, and Cousins who actually hunted took care of that land and Farm House for decades while the aunt and uncle who lived there seem to horde trash and cats.

Well when they were finally laid to rest, the will was read: all the non-hunting children who never visited them once got the land parceled off to them. Which they turned around and sold it to one guy outside the family in one package. I'm no longer bitter about it and the guy who bought the land is taking good care of it and is a decent guy. I look at it as a lesson to never kowtow to people who are looking to take advantage of your labor.

83 Big Steve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:03:23am

re: #75 RadicalModerate

Islamophobia is just a cover for a much, MUCH greater threat.

Personally, I am in much more fear of a Reconstructionist Christian version of Sharia law being implemented in the United States. They are already infiltrating the courts and the highest offices of the land - and have many of their followers stating outright if they don't get what they want via legislation, they WILL resort to violence.

Amen!

84 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:03:29am

OT. "Islamist militant group Boko Haram has told the BBC it carried out the attack on the UN building in Abuja." 18 dead thus far. In other news, 50 dead in Mexico casino attack. "Officials suspect organised crime was behind the attack."

85 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:04:07am

re: #82 Idle Drifter

I'm glad I don't anymore. The last we had had 500 acres of Michigan Upper Peninsula farm land and cedar swamps. Prime whitetail country for us to hunt on when we got permission. Took a huge 7 pointer (3x4) +250 lbs buck myself in the oak grove. Well my Dad, Uncles, and Cousins who actually hunted took care of that land and Farm House for decades while the aunt and uncle who lived there seem to horde trash and cats.

Well when they were finally laid to rest, the will was read: all the non-hunting children who never visited them once got the land parceled off to them. Which they turned around and sold it to one guy outside the family in one package. I'm no longer bitter about it and the guy who bought the land is taking good care of it and is a decent guy. I look at it as a lesson to never kowtow to people who are looking to take advantage of your labor.

Moral of the story:

Early Inheritance is your friend.

86 laZardo  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:04:19am

re: #79 ggt

In reality, the extremes of both religions are pushing people to agnosticism, athieism or non-religious spiritual pursuits.

The masks are finally off, and there are centuries-old monsters underneath.

87 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:05:04am

re: #75 RadicalModerate

Islamophobia is just a cover for a much, MUCH greater threat.

Personally, I am in much more fear of a Reconstructionist Christian version of Sharia law being implemented in the United States. They are already infiltrating the courts and the highest offices of the land - and have many of their followers stating outright if they don't get what they want via legislation, they WILL resort to violence.

What do you mean by...

"It Is Dominion We Are After. World Conquest ... And We Must Never Settle For Anything Less"

Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.

But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.

It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.

It is dominion we are after.

World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.

Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land - of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God's Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations.

Oh, that.

88 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:05:08am

re: #82 Idle Drifter

I'm glad I don't anymore. The last we had had 500 acres of Michigan Upper Peninsula farm land and cedar swamps. Prime whitetail country for us to hunt on when we got permission. Took a huge 7 pointer (3x4) +250 lbs buck myself in the oak grove. Well my Dad, Uncles, and Cousins who actually hunted took care of that land and Farm House for decades while the aunt and uncle who lived there seem to horde trash and cats.

Well when they were finally laid to rest, the will was read: all the non-hunting children who never visited them once got the land parceled off to them. Which they turned around and sold it to one guy outside the family in one package. I'm no longer bitter about it and the guy who bought the land is taking good care of it and is a decent guy. I look at it as a lesson to never kowtow to people who are looking to take advantage of your labor.

Familiarity breeding contempt in all its glory?

89 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:05:28am

re: #79 ggt

EXACTLY!

The idea is we'd better get there first!

Like it's a competition.

In reality, the extremes of both religions are pushing people to agnosticism, athieism or non-religious spiritual pursuits.

Silence! Do not reveal the secrets of our goal for the eventual Atheist take-over of the world!

//

90 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:05:45am

re: #17 lawhawk

OT (Hurricane blogging):
Mayor Bloomberg has ordered mandatory evacuations from A zones in NYC; those would be low-lying areas including Battery Park City in Manhattan, parts of Southern Brooklyn, Rockaway Queens, and Southern Staten Island. This is an unprecedented move by New York City's emergency officials.

91 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:07:06am

[Link: twitter.com...]
Derp

92 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:08:01am

re: #91 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]
Derp

Identifying himself as Texan is very useful...

93 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:08:03am

re: #90 lawhawk

OT (Hurricane blogging):
Mayor Bloomberg has ordered mandatory evacuations from A zones in NYC; those would be low-lying areas including Battery Park City in Manhattan, parts of Southern Brooklyn, Rockaway Queens, and Southern Staten Island. This is an unprecedented move by New York City's emergency officials.

It's coming into NY, maybe as a Cat 1, probably a tropical storm. That's really not all that bad. You can stay in your house/condo/apt for that. Unless you have a chance of flooding which I don't think.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:09:56am

re: #86 laZardo

The masks are finally off, and there are centuries-old monsters underneath.

I am seeing something rather frightening to me.

People who cannot process thought at the philosophical level and manage their behavior accordingly.

They NEED "Jesus to die on the cross and rise from the dead" to be a FACT. I simply don't. I don't get it. I can take the message attributed to Jesus and work it just fine even it is a myth. It makes sense. I don't understand why people need THEIR god/prophet/saint to be an egotist.

Then, any rational, logical, empirically proven fact that SEEMS to be in conflict with their religion blows their minds and CAN'T be true, must be the work of a demon. Simply because they can't process ideas at a higher level.

I don't get it.

95 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:10:15am

re: #32 jaunte

Like this:

But, but, he earns all that valuable money! Are you trying to punish success?!

//

96 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:10:19am

re: #93 marjoriemoon

It's coming into NY, maybe as a Cat 1, probably a tropical storm. That's really not all that bad. You can stay in your house/condo/apt for that. Unless you have a chance of flooding which I don't think.

City streets will enhance the wind and the transit system may make flooding easier.

97 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:10:57am

re: #93 marjoriemoon

I agree that it's probably coming as a Cat 1, and that most of the wind will be East of NYC proper, but Bloomberg isn't taking any chances after the drubbing he took over the blizzard disaster response. It also has to do with the astronomical high tides predicted and that because this storm is so large, that the storm surge may be sufficient to flood those low lying areas - and potentially damage the subway system, particularly in Lower Manhattan.

98 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:11:24am

re: #91 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]
Derp

It's afraid!

99 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:11:36am

re: #42 Talking Point Detective

Heard about this on the radio (NPR) today.

It will be interesting to see if it gets any other national-level play.

I'm sure that Fox News is on it as I type.

I'm sure they'll treat it like the Homeland Security report warning about right wing hate groups. Cuz we know there are not any of them.

//

100 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:11:45am

Wow, nice post. Will be chewing through that report this weekend.

101 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:11:59am

re: #91 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]
Derp

He's a somewhat notorious tool.

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:12:15am

re: #100 BigPapa

Wow, nice post. Will be chewing through that report this weekend.

My copy is still printing.

103 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:12:55am

re: #96 Varek Raith

City streets will enhance the wind and the transit system may make flooding easier.

True enough. We had Katrina come to Miami as a Cat 1 and we were out of power for 5 days, but maybe only 15,000 people were effected (out of 2 million). A major inconvenience for sure, especially in the heat, but not life threatening.

104 recusancy  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:13:22am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

There's definitely some denial going on.

105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:13:34am

Lovely. We're handling Irene here in Philly at work by shutting the network down tonight, riding out the storm, and then starting things back up on Sunday evening as conditions warrant. And as local infrastructure support person who lives conveniently close by (walking distance) guess who got volunteered. :-/

Got to do the procedure two weeks ago for a planned power outage, so I'm in practice.

The apartment might be rough during the storm. Moving away from windows is a difficult proposition in my layout since I live on the corner of the building. Might just box vulnerable stuff where I can and put plastic over it in case the bad things happen (like losing a window or two.)

If power and internet holds I'll do live commentary here...

106 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:13:43am

re: #97 lawhawk

I agree that it's probably coming as a Cat 1, and that most of the wind will be East of NYC proper, but Bloomberg isn't taking any chances after the drubbing he took over the blizzard disaster response. It also has to do with the astronomical high tides predicted and that because this storm is so large, that the storm surge may be sufficient to flood those low lying areas - and potentially damage the subway system, particularly in Lower Manhattan.

Ah ok. Yea man, Irene is enormous! I think the biggest in years. It's covering the entire east coast seaboard!

107 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:14:06am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

Which religion in America opposes teaching science to our children because it violates their scripture? Which religion wants to infringe on the rights of women and homosexuals? Which religion wants to prevent other from building houses of worship? Which religion mandates that everybody observe their sabbath (in many states) by not purchasing alcohol? I think the focus on Islam is misguided.

108 Big Steve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:14:23am

re: #93 marjoriemoon

It's coming into NY, maybe as a Cat 1, probably a tropical storm. That's really not all that bad. You can stay in your house/condo/apt for that. Unless you have a chance of flooding which I don't think.

ahhh....speaking as a resident of Galveston county Texas and ridden out many storms....."tropical storms" can sometimes be the worst. The only time I ever had significant house damage was TS Allison in 2001 which give us 31 inches of rain over a day and a half.

109 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:14:24am

re: #98 MrSilverDragon

It's afraid!

Image: 2329_1305933532634.jpg

110 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:14:49am

re: #72 marjoriemoon

It's absolutely a clash of cultures. Fear of Muslims is not much different than fear of Jews or anything that appears different. The cultures are different. Either white Americans hating on Middle Eastern Americans or the other way around.

Cultural conflict is not the same thing as seeing the world in terms of Western Culture being threatened by The Return of the Caliphate.

(Sorry for the delay. Customers...)

111 gehazi  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:14:56am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Zoroastrians?

112 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:15:08am

re: #97 lawhawk

I agree that it's probably coming as a Cat 1, and that most of the wind will be East of NYC proper, but Bloomberg isn't taking any chances after the drubbing he took over the blizzard disaster response. It also has to do with the astronomical high tides predicted and that because this storm is so large, that the storm surge may be sufficient to flood those low lying areas - and potentially damage the subway system, particularly in Lower Manhattan.

I'm absolutely amazed at the precautions being taken. MTA will shut down tomorrow at noon, mandatory evacuation of parts of Manhattan. Unheard of.

It's frightening that this is a preview of what most hurricanes will be like in the future.

113 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:15:21am

re: #15 tomg51spence

I read the part about those who promote mis-information about sharia law. I'm still where I was. I would not want to live in any country I know of that has a majority muslim population. I'm not afraid. I do not think there is any possibility of sharia becoming prevalent in the US for generations to come. But I would rather it did not occur.

Yeah, in the mean time we have to fight off the Christian Sharia, aka 'Dominionism.' Let's stand together and fight against that.

114 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:15:31am

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Image: 2329_1305933532634.jpg

I'd be more afraid of the kitten.

They don't call these storms "CAT"s for nothing!

115 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:15:31am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Which religion in America opposes teaching science to our children because it violates their scripture? Which religion wants to infringe on the rights of women and homosexuals? Which religion wants to prevent other from building houses of worship? Which religion mandates that everybody observe their sabbath (in many states) by not purchasing alcohol? I think the focus on Islam is misguided.

Khorne cares not...

116 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:16:08am

re: #101 Gus 802

He's a somewhat notorious tool.

I'd bet his boss is one of the anonymous funders:

The Texas Public Policy Foundation (TPPF) is a conservative think tank founded in 1989 by James R. Leininger.
[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

During the decade 1987-1997, Leininger "spent more than $1.4 million of his personal fortune to affect how Texans vote

117 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:16:47am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Which religion in America opposes teaching science to our children because it violates their scripture? Which religion wants to infringe on the rights of women and homosexuals? Which religion wants to prevent other from building houses of worship? Which religion mandates that everybody observe their sabbath (in many states) by not purchasing alcohol? I think the focus on Islam is misguided.

It's those ultra Orthodox Jews with their eruv wires turning entire neighborhoods into Talmudic settlements!
//

118 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:16:53am

re: #112 makeitstop

I'm absolutely amazed at the precautions being taken. MTA will shut down tomorrow at noon, mandatory evacuation of parts of Manhattan. Unheard of.

It's frightening that this is a preview of what most hurricanes will be like in the future.

Click to embiggen.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:17:04am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Which religion in America opposes teaching science to our children because it violates their scripture? Which religion wants to infringe on the rights of women and homosexuals? Which religion wants to prevent other from building houses of worship? Which religion mandates that everybody observe their sabbath (in many states) by not purchasing alcohol? I think the focus on Islam is misguided.

Focus on Islamists, only, is misguided.

We need to focus on all extreme ideologies.

120 Big Steve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:17:22am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Which religion in America opposes teaching science to our children because it violates their scripture? Which religion wants to infringe on the rights of women and homosexuals? Which religion wants to prevent other from building houses of worship? Which religion mandates that everybody observe their sabbath (in many states) by not purchasing alcohol? I think the focus on Islam is misguided.

To add.....which religion is on our money, which religion demands recognition to open city council meetings, which religion must be pandered to to get elected, which religion has Ann Coulter as an adherent.

121 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:18:03am

re: #113 BigPapa

Yeah, in the mean time we have to fight off the Christian Sharia, aka 'Dominionism.' Let's stand together and fight against that.

Simple. It's a cultural "Hey, look at that threatening XXX!" distraction that aids and justifies a takeover to implement their version of a theocratic-based dictatorship. If the radicals of the two sides did not have each other to play off of they would need to create said opposition.

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:18:07am

re: #118 publicityStunted

Click to embiggen.

upding for "embiggen".

:)

123 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:18:28am

re: #94 ggt

People will believe anything because they want to or because they are afraid it's true. I guess they can't function without some sense of superiority towards others. To be rewarded in the next life for their behavior in this life despite it being contradictory. Delusions are great for warping reality to fit their narrative that they are good people despite being dicks to others that may only have a slight disagreement with them. With the rise of the Dominionists in this country they can dismiss any sin or atrocity on their part so long as they succeed in their mission to reshape America or perhaps even the world.

124 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:19:06am

re: #117 Alouette

It's those ultra Orthodox Jews with their eruv wires turning entire neighborhoods into Talmudic settlements!
//

The repairs for that will be keeping folk busy after Irene passes.

125 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:19:34am

to hell with all of them, nothing but trouble...the real fight is right here in our own backyard...separation of church and state is going to claim plenty of victims...just look around

126 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:19:48am

re: #122 ggt

upding for "embiggen".

:)

Absolutely, it's a perfectly cromulent word.

127 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:20:00am

re: #120 Big Steve

To add...which religion is on our money, which religion demands recognition to open city council meetings, which religion must be pandered to to get elected, which religion has Ann Coulter as an adherent.

The Almighty $?!?!?

128 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:20:00am

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

There is a class of civilizations involved: religious and racists fundamentalists and progressive civilized peoples. The fundies include al Quaeda, whackos like Spencer/Geller/Shlussel, and American Dominionists like Bachmann and Perry and 84% of the rest of the GOP.

Yes, in this context, I compared US government officials to terrorists. In this context, they are more alike than not. And they are all the problem, even if they actively fight against each other.

129 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:20:16am

re: #105 oaktree

Lovely. We're handling Irene here in Philly at work by shutting the network down tonight, riding out the storm, and then starting things back up on Sunday evening as conditions warrant. And as local infrastructure support person who lives conveniently close by (walking distance) guess who got volunteered. :-/

Got to do the procedure two weeks ago for a planned power outage, so I'm in practice.

The apartment might be rough during the storm. Moving away from windows is a difficult proposition in my layout since I live on the corner of the building. Might just box vulnerable stuff where I can and put plastic over it in case the bad things happen (like losing a window or two.)

If power and internet holds I'll do live commentary here...

The only reason we lost power in Katrina is because our electric poles were over 50 years old. The wood was rotting and they fell in the wind. It didn't take a big wind for that, was under 75mph.

See the wind scale and damage probability here:
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

For a Cat 1 or 2 you have to tie everything down, bring it inside and stay clear of flying debris.

Anyway, I'm not saying people shouldn't take precautions, but I really think they're making a bigger deal of it than need be. Better safe than sorry, I guess, but you also risk freaking people out for nothing.

130 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:20:21am

re: #108 Big Steve

"tropical storms" can sometimes be the worst..

Exactly. I lived in Seabrook during TS Claudette. 24"of rain in 24 hours (42 in Alvin) - and downtown Houston got zilch. 1979.
Just hope Irene keeps on moving. Claudette died over us.

Hey, And thanks all for the comments on my earlier post. And the civility.

131 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:21:21am

re: #121 oaktree

Simple. It's a cultural "Hey, look at that threatening XXX!" distraction that aids and justifies a takeover to implement their version of a theocratic-based dictatorship. If the radicals of the two sides did not have each other to play off of they would need to create said opposition.

Some people like threatening XXX, though I prefer asian XXX.
/

132 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:22:08am

re: #120 Big Steve

To add...which religion is on our money, which religion demands recognition to open city council meetings, which religion must be pandered to to get elected, which religion has Ann Coulter as an adherent.

That also reminds me that there's a religion that hates the Constitution. The don't believe in the establishment clause, don't recognize the separation of church and state. They want to change the Constitution to prohibit gay rights. It ain't Islam.

133 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:22:17am

re: #105 oaktree

That's my plan as well - stay safe! I'll try blogging as long as the power/Internet are accessible.

134 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:23:47am

re: #97 lawhawk

I also bet Obama's administration has asked Bloomberg "You don't want to be known as the Nagin of the North, do you?"

Hopefully the state/local/fed synergy will work this time 'round.

135 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:24:25am

'Million man' anti-Israel rally in Cairo attracts only hundreds

Hundreds of Egyptians gathered Friday outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo in what was supposed to be a "million-man march" calling on the government to expel Israel's ambassador.

Most Egyptian protest groups announced that they would participate in the demonstration to expel the ambassador over the border incident last week in which five Egyptian policemen were killed by the IDF. However, the protesters who actually arrived were far fewer in number.

136 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:24:31am

re: #130 tomg51spence

Yeah, Hurricane Floyd/TS Floyd was horrible for the folks in NJ, where it caused historic flooding throughout major parts of the state. If this storm slows, or goes more inland, we'd see a repeat - less wind, more rain.

Right now, NYC is in the no-win scenario; it's going to get wind and rain - only question is which will be worse.

BTW - I've opened up a page to split out the discussion to keep this topic free from the hurricane discussion.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:25:20am

Still printing and, Cat Be Praised. the printer hasn't jammed, run out of ink or anything.

So far, so good.

138 lgffan  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:25:39am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Since the focus of the report and article were on Islam, that was the religion I chose to address, I would prefer not to get wound up and spun like a dreydel when it come to the Christian fundies - one of the main reasons I am embarrassed about being a "right leaning" fiscal (but not a social) conservative.

139 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:25:51am

re: #129 marjoriemoon

The only reason we lost power in Katrina is because our electric poles were over 50 years old. The wood was rotting and they fell in the wind. It didn't take a big wind for that, was under 75mph.

See the wind scale and damage probability here:
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

For a Cat 1 or 2 you have to tie everything down, bring it inside and stay clear of flying debris.

Anyway, I'm not saying people shouldn't take precautions, but I really think they're making a bigger deal of it than need be. Better safe than sorry, I guess, but you also risk freaking people out for nothing.

Well, we're on a tight project schedule and having a power spike blast our servers (and associated gear) would cause total mayhem. Not to mention the effects on normal business. These are actually fairly simple precautions along those lines since it inconveniences 1-2 people for a few hours this weekend for managing a risk that could put the business semi-inoperative for a longer period of time including a monthly financial close while we struggle to replace and reconfigure damaged equipment and recover data from backups.

140 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:25:53am

re: #108 Big Steve

ahhh...speaking as a resident of Galveston county Texas and ridden out many storms..."tropical storms" can sometimes be the worst. The only time I ever had significant house damage was TS Allison in 2001 which give us 31 inches of rain over a day and a half.

True. The amount of rain is important. Hurricane Andrew was extremely dry. Very little rainfall which isn't typical.

Cat 1 or 2 isn't meaningless, but when you've been through 4 or 5, you welcome a 1 or 2!

Besides, once it hits land, it's going to calm down and start breaking up. The only thing with Irene is that it's really enormous so it's probably going to stick around awhile. Hard to determine depending on the speed. Generally anything above 10mph is pretty quick moving.

141 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:26:30am

re: #137 ggt

Still printing and, Cat Be Praised. the printer hasn't jammed, run out of ink or anything.

So far, so good.

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

142 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:26:51am

re: #138 lgffan

Why not concentrate on the religion that's actually fucking shit up in the US, rather than one that might in some far-distant future?

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:27:05am

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

No clue, did you google it?

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:27:23am

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

You probably need more 8 1/2 x 11 paper

145 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:28:03am

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

You're out of paper. (why can't it just say "Out of Paper")

146 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:28:45am

re: #144 ggt

You probably need more 8 1/2 x 11 paper

147 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:29:01am

There isn't a clash of civilizations, but rather a clash with civilization - it's being fought worldwide and in pretty much every religion and country by fundamentalists and last century Luddites. They are entrenched in rancid decaying ideologies and extremist interpretations of religion that made last century the bloodiest in all of human history. They work to uphold tradition, entrenched legacy industries that need to be mothballed, and monied tyrants. They think they can blind us with populist causes and scare mongering, but that fog is fading fast.

Islam is in a slow motion reform that will last at least the rest of the century -- at times there will be extremists, and there will be violence, but as has proven true this first decade of the bright new millennium, most of the unfortunate victims of that violence will not be westerners, but rather Muslims. We see some of it now as people work for freedom in Libya, Iran, Syria, etc. etc.

148 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:29:47am

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

"Why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam! I swear to God, one of these days, I just kick this piece of shit out the window."

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:30:24am

re: #147 Thanos

There isn't a clash of civilizations, but rather a clash with civilization - it's being fought worldwide and in pretty much every religion and country by fundamentalists and last century Luddites. They are entrenched in rancid decaying ideologies and extremist interpretations of religion that made last century the bloodiest in all of human history. They work to uphold tradition, entrenched legacy industries that need to be mothballed, and monied tyrants. They think they can blind us with populist causes and scare mongering, but that fog is fading fast.

Islam is in a slow motion reform that will last at least the rest of the century -- at times there will be extremists, and there will be violence, but as has proven true this first decade of the bright new millennium, most of the unfortunate victims of that violence will not be westerners, but rather Muslims. We see some of it now as people work for freedom in Libya, Iran, Syria, etc. etc.

Well Put!

Note: sovereign citizens and anarchists

150 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:31:00am

re: #138 lgffan

Since the focus of the report and article were on Islam, that was the religion I chose to address, I would prefer not to get wound up and spun like a dreydel when it come to the Christian fundies - one of the main reasons I am embarrassed about being a "right leaning" fiscal (but not a social) conservative.

Actually, the report was not addressing Islam, so much as reviewing the propaganda campaign being waged to paint Islam in a bad light. Or, it's 'just asking questions' of Islam, if you want to ask it cynically.

The level of objective review levied against Islam should be levied against this campaign.

151 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:31:57am

re: #147 Thanos

There isn't a clash of civilizations, but rather a clash with civilization - it's being fought worldwide and in pretty much every religion and country by fundamentalists and last century Luddites. They are entrenched in rancid decaying ideologies and extremist interpretations of religion that made last century the bloodiest in all of human history. They work to uphold tradition, entrenched legacy industries that need to be mothballed, and monied tyrants. They think they can blind us with populist causes and scare mongering, but that fog is fading fast.

Islam is in a slow motion reform that will last at least the rest of the century -- at times there will be extremists, and there will be violence, but as has proven true this first decade of the bright new millennium, most of the unfortunate victims of that violence will not be westerners, but rather Muslims. We see some of it now as people work for freedom in Libya, Iran, Syria, etc. etc.

Slow motion reform? I'm not so sure. I thought that would be true. I posted here many times of my hope for the Arab Spring, but I see none of it coming from the young Egyptian and Syrian Arabs. Not a bit of it. Just vile anti-Semitism.

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean a damn thing if it excludes people. Actually that's the definition of tyranny.

152 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:32:13am

re: #148 ArchangelMichael

"Why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam! I swear to God, one of these days, I just kick this piece of shit out the window."

Does anyone ever say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"

153 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:32:54am

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call it a going away (hurricane edition) present:

(that is the nsfw language edition)

Here's the Family Guy clean edition:

154 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:32:55am

re: #147 Thanos

There isn't a clash of civilizations, but rather a clash with civilization - it's being fought worldwide and in pretty much every religion and country by fundamentalists and last century Luddites.

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:33:00am

re: #152 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does anyone ever say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"

I might actually get violent if someone ever said that to me.

Especially if I hadn't and my coffee.

156 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:34:06am

re: #155 ggt

I might actually get violent if someone ever said that to me.

Especially if I hadn't and my coffee.

157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:34:47am

re: #14 Alouette

OMG I'm going to puke. A family member is on the list of donors.

I know how you feel. My father was a board member of a New Apostolic Reformation bible skool, which has a scholarship in my mother's name. Having crankodoodle family sux. :(

158 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:35:24am

re: #153 lawhawk

Call it a going away (hurricane edition) present:

[Video]

When I was in Comm Battalion, we had a box set aside with decommissioned computer gear and several large hammers.

159 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:35:45am

re: #151 marjoriemoon

Look above. Egypt tried to rally people to eject Israel's ambassador, but nobody much was on board.

160 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:36:32am

re: #151 marjoriemoon

Slow motion reform? I'm not so sure. I thought that would be true. I posted here many times of my hope for the Arab Spring, but I see none of it coming from the young Egyptian and Syrian Arabs. Not a bit of it. Just vile anti-Semitism.

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean a damn thing if it excludes people. Actually that's the definition of tyranny.

That's why I said slow motion. Slow as in a couple more generations. Reformation takes a long time, and generations.

161 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:36:32am

re: #118 publicityStunted

Click to embiggen.

Didn't work.
Oh, you meant...
/

162 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:37:02am

re: #152 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does anyone ever say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"

No but...

I do have a red Swingline stapler on my desk and whenever my ex-gf and I didn't know the answer to a question one of us asked there other we would say "I do not know anything about money laundering."

Anyway I believe you would get your ass kicked saying that.

#corpaccountspayableminaspeaking

163 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:37:17am

re: #158 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When I was in Comm Battalion, we had a box set aside with decommissioned computer gear and several large hammers.

When I worked for the bus company, my supervisor said he was going to drive a bus over the PDP-11 come Y2K. Don't know if he ever really did that.

164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:37:28am

And esp if it's frickin Friday!

re: #155 ggt

I might actually get violent if someone ever said that to me.

Especially if I hadn't and my coffee.

165 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:38:15am

re: #147 Thanos

There isn't a clash of civilizations, but rather a clash with civilization - it's being fought worldwide and in pretty much every religion and country by fundamentalists and last century Luddites.

YES. THIS.

It's no accident that some of the most unhinged people here in America rail against things like globalization, the internet, and the social and technological changes we've had in the last 20 years. It's also no accident that they often invoke Cold War imagery and frame things in Cold War terms.

These tend to be people who cannot cope with change. They liked the simple, dualistic life that we had back in the Cold War days -- America good, commies bad. Etc. They liked a certain amount of social order. Now that things have changed so radically, they can't accept it, so they lash out.

I'd imagine it's much the same in other parts of the world, but in terms that folks in those parts of the world can easily understand.

166 engineer cat  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:38:18am

‘Mosques are Trojan Horses’
‘Radical Islam has infiltrated America, the government and mainstream Muslim organizations’
‘There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Traditional Islam is radical Islam’
‘Practicing Muslims cannot be loyal Americans’

there is nothing here that isn't a recapitulation of earlier accusations against catholics

the theories that such-and-such a religion requires a primary allegiance to a foreign authority and is too 'alien' for its followers to ever assimilate into american society are hardy perennials of the hate industry

now please excuse me while i go to my monthly meeting of the International Secret Cabal of Very Bad People...

167 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:38:33am

In Yoga there are 8 "limbs". Most of which I'll never get to climb.

The first two have to do with internal and external behaviors.

How we think and how we act.

I've always thought that religion or spirituality had to do with the internal "self" and government and laws had to do with the "external".

Maybe that's because I was raised with a respect of the Constitution and the Establishment Clause.

Government can't tell me how to think, or what to believe and Religion can't put me in jail. (although both want my money)

Why is that so hard for people.

168 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:38:52am

re: #77 Charles

Someone said the culture was is not the west vs Islam, it's fundie vs the rest of us. I liked that thought.And I'm a lot more afraid of the average felon being in my zip code than any of the nice Muslim folks that go to this little place nearby to pray and buy Halal next door. They tell me it's too small to call a Mosque, and to my embarrassment I forgot the proper term.

169 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:40:32am

re: #166 engineer dog

‘Mosques are Trojan Horses’
‘Radical Islam has infiltrated America, the government and mainstream Muslim organizations’
‘There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Traditional Islam is radical Islam’
‘Practicing Muslims cannot be loyal Americans’

there is nothing here that isn't a recapitulation of earlier accusations against catholics

the theories that such-and-such a religion requires a primary allegiance to a foreign authority and is too 'alien' for its followers to ever assimilate into american society are hardy perennials of the hate industry

now please excuse me while i go to my monthly meeting of the International Secret Cabal of Very Bad People...

You mean, this thread isn't it?

I'm in the wrong place, oh my!

170 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:40:42am

D batteries are turning into a rare commodity in this neck of the woods. Just a heads up.

171 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:40:44am

re: #168 Rightwingconspirator

Someone said the culture was is not the west vs Islam, it's fundie vs the rest of us. I liked that thought.And I'm a lot more afraid of the average felon being in my zip code than any of the nice Muslim folks that go to this little place nearby to pray and buy Halal next door. They tell me it's too small to call a Mosque, and to my embarrassment I forgot the proper term.

Thingamajig.

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:41:13am

re: #171 Varek Raith

Thingamajig.

Whazit?

173 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:41:35am

re: #170 JasonA

D batteries are turning into a rare commodity in this neck of the woods. Just a heads up.

Suckers.
I got ready on Monday.
THEN THE HORRIBLE QUAKE HIT.
WHO'S PREPARED NOW??!
/

174 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:41:46am

re: #160 Thanos

That's why I said slow motion. Slow as in a couple more generations. Reformation takes a long time, and generations.

I have my doubts. Seriously. I don't think these regimes are ready for democracy or have a clue how it works. And that could take 100s of years.

The only promise for me was when some Libyan rebels asked a Libyan Jew in the UK to run for the new government if it should emerge as a free democracy. Now THAT is something.

175 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:42:35am

re: #163 Alouette

When I worked for the bus company, my supervisor said he was going to drive a bus over the PDP-11 come Y2K. Don't know if he ever really did that.

The processors in the Rockwell computers that went to the moon. After that they took the triplet of processors (A, B, Spare) and made them into the first ACD (Automated Call Distributor - Rockwell-Collins Galaxy) for the first big ass call centers in the country. The US Post office was still using them up until a few years ago, and my company still does in one highly specialized app...

176 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:42:37am

re: #171 Varek Raith

Thingamajig.

I shall call it... minimosque.

/

Seriously, I believe it's called a masjid.

177 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:42:40am

...IRENE WEAKENS A LITTLE...TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ARRIVING ALONG THE COAST OF THE CAROLINAS...

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

178 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:43:09am

re: #168 Rightwingconspirator

Someone said the culture was is not the west vs Islam, it's fundie vs the rest of us. I liked that thought.And I'm a lot more afraid of the average felon being in my zip code than any of the nice Muslim folks that go to this little place nearby to pray and buy Halal next door. They tell me it's too small to call a Mosque, and to my embarrassment I forgot the proper term.

Masjid, fiqh, or mussalla?

179 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:44:20am

re: #177 Gus 802

...IRENE WEAKENS A LITTLE...TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ARRIVING ALONG THE COAST OF THE CAROLINAS...

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

I'll be live blogging the end of the Eastern Seaboard here.
;)

180 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:44:31am

So now we have a baby frog coming to our patio at night.

2 big frogs, and now a baby.

It's a sign of an apocalypse.

isn't it?

/

181 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:45:07am

re: #176 MrSilverDragon

I shall call it... minimosque.

/

Seriously, I believe it's called a masjid.

Small prayer room? I think masjid is right. Saw those all over the place in Malaysia at the parks, rest stops on the highway, etc.

182 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:04am

re: #179 Varek Raith

I'll be live blogging the end of the Eastern Seaboard here.
;)

Make sure you're wearing a Mae West before you go to bed.

//

183 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #178 ArchangelMichael

Masjid, fiqh, or mussalla?

Not Fiqh... that just covers the rules for what qualifies as a place of worship among other things AFAIK.

184 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #178 ArchangelMichael

Masjid, fiqh, or mussalla?

Yep, musalla.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:35am

OMG! it is still printing.

I swear I am becoming ADHD in my old age.

186 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:46am

To all new the world of following hurricanes, you may wish to try
wunderground in addition to "[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...] In wunderground get their fanciest drawing (the last one) and under hurricane click to add surge and especially the forecast tracks. In the NHC site, on the left-hand side, use the satellite link to follow the hurricane using the visible or water vapor flash animation. Also, in NHC, the "forecast discussion" is where you want to go to learn if the projected path is not really what they are actually thinking may happen.

187 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:46:48am

re: #170 JasonA

D batteries are turning into a rare commodity in this neck of the woods. Just a heads up.

We have a radio and flashlight that are hand-cranked. Plus all the other regular battery-op stuff.

188 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:47:41am

BTW - Irene shifted a bit west. Check with wunderground, above.

189 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:48:19am

re: #174 marjoriemoon

I have my doubts. Seriously. I don't think these regimes are ready for democracy or have a clue how it works. And that could take 100s of years.

The only promise for me was when some Libyan rebels asked a Libyan Jew in the UK to run for the new government if it should emerge as a free democracy. Now THAT is something.

I didn't say it was going to be pretty, and I did say "at least the rest of the century". Have patience, even though times get bad in general people muddle towards the good, even if they are in the worst places. Look at how much China has changed since Tienanmen as one for instance, and at Bangladesh as another. Patience grasshopper.

190 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:49:11am

re: #188 tomg51spence

BTW - Irene shifted a bit west. Check with wunderground, above.

It's still looking like it's gonna run right through my neighborhood, though. :(

191 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:49:30am

O,h and click to show track or history, too, in wunderground

BTW - its going to go west of the Bay of Fundy, and 1-2 days after a new moon. Tidal hell.

192 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:49:40am

DeMarVa is in trouble.

193 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:49:48am

re: #178 ArchangelMichael

Masjid, fiqh, or mussalla?

Mussalla, that was it. It's a room basically.

194 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:49:54am

African Union calls for joint Gahdaffi-Rebel government.

The African Union has called for "an all-inclusive transitional government" in Libya that would unite the rebels and members of Muammar Gaddafi's dictatorship.

The AU's position - which cames just as the Libyan rebels seem on the verge of crushing the regime of the discredited dictator - is notably different from that of the West in general, and of the Arab League, another major regional organization including Libya, which threw its weight behind the rebel government on Thursday.

It appears to reflect Gaddafi's strong positions on the African continent in light of his numerous calls for African unity after he abandoned an earlier passion for "Pan-Arabism" as well as his ties with fellow autocratic African regimes.

No.

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:50:10am

It's DONE!

and I don't have an anywhere biggenough clippy to hold it all together.

About 5/8 inch worth of paper.

AGH!

196 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:50:12am

re: #177 Gus 802

...IRENE WEAKENS A LITTLE...TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ARRIVING ALONG THE COAST OF THE CAROLINAS...

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

A DJ friend of mine in New Jersey got requests all morning for this song:

197 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:50:16am

re: #189 Thanos

I didn't say it was going to be pretty, and I did say "at least the rest of the century". Have patience, even though times get bad in general people muddle towards the good, even if they are in the worst places. Look at how much China has changed since Tienanmen as one for instance, and at Bangladesh as another. Patience grasshopper.

Though AGW is probably going to completely work over Bangladesh in the next 15-20 years.

198 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:50:37am

re: #195 ggt

It's DONE!

and I don't have an anywhere biggenough clippy to hold it all together.

About 5/8 inch worth of paper.

AGH!

Got a super stapler?

199 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:51:00am

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

African Union calls for joint Gahdaffi-Rebel government.

No.

Seconded.

200 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:51:08am

re: #184 CuriousLurker

Yep, musalla.

Nice folks. Very politely declined a photo doc I wanted to do during the worst anti NYC Mosque days.

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:51:16am

re: #198 Varek Raith

Got a super stapler?

I'm thinking a rubber band, just to keep it all together when I'm not reading it.

202 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:51:30am

re: #199 CuriousLurker

Seconded.

Third...ed.

203 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:52:10am

re: #192 Varek Raith

DeMarVa is in trouble.

We used to call it Delmarva.

204 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:52:46am

re: #203 Gus 802

We used to cal it Delmarva.

I just emphasized it to those who don't know what it means.
:)

205 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:52:56am

re: #202 Varek Raith

Third...ed.

Fourth-ed

206 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:53:54am

re: #182 Gus 802

Will a Brooklyn Decker do? /

207 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:54:13am

re: #192 Varek Raith

DeMarVa is in trouble.

So life in Baltimore can get worse?

208 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:54:39am

re: #207 JasonA

So life in Baltimore can get worse?

Yes.
No...
Well, maybe.
/

209 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:54:48am

re: #179 Varek Raith

Got your rubber boots? Hero cam?
Be safe good lizard.

210 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:55:20am

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not only no but HELL NO.

In case they can't understand here's more:

جحيم لا!
Kuzimu!
Hel nee!

211 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:56:31am

re: #209 Rightwingconspirator

Got your rubber boots? Hero cam?
Be safe good lizard.

Heh.
I asked my neighbor to move her car. A tree in my yard has a 20 ft branch that's been creaking the past year. A good enough wind will snap it methinks.
Other than that, sump pump is ready to go.

212 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:57:20am

I'm not dead yet!

213 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:57:20am

re: #211 Varek Raith

Never a good pump stack around when you need one... :(

214 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:57:23am

Also, why can't these damn things hit during the daytime?!?!

215 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:57:55am

New NASA photo of Irene off the Carolinas:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

216 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:58:35am

re: #214 Varek Raith

Also, why can't these damn things hit during the daytime?!?!

Because this way you get the spooky howling of the wind in the dark of night!

217 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:59:01am

re: #207 JasonA

So life in Baltimore can get worse?

Seriously, it's not all like "The Wire". I worked in downtown Baltimore and it wasn't that bad. I liked walking down to the harbor for lunch and visiting the science museum on occasion. However, there are certain places that I wouldn't set foot for fear of my life.

218 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:59:17am

Good thing all our power lines are underground.
Should have power the whole time.

219 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:59:38am

re: #218 Varek Raith

Good thing all our power lines are underground.
Should have power the whole time.

*muttergrumblemutter*

220 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:00:09pm

re: #217 MrSilverDragon

Seriously, it's not all like "The Wire". I worked in downtown Baltimore and it wasn't that bad. I liked walking down to the harbor for lunch and visiting the science museum on occasion. However, there are certain places that I wouldn't set foot for fear of my life.

I dis Baltimore like I dis NJ.
Cause I can.
:)

221 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:00:30pm

re: #219 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*muttergrumblemutter*

Aren't you on the coast?

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:00:40pm

From the Fast Facts of the Document of this Post.

"One of Al Qaeda's greatest recruitment an propaganda tool is the assertion that the West is at war with Islam and Muslims --an argument that is strengthened every day by those who suggest all Muslims are terrorists and all those practicing Islam are jeopardizing U.S. security."

223 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:01:50pm

re: #221 Varek Raith

Aren't you on the coast?

Yeah, and all our local power lines are above ground, at least in this area. Which means as soon as the wind gets over tropical storm force, ya'll probably won't be seeing me again for a minimum of 48 hours.

224 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:02:38pm

re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, and all our local power lines are above ground, at least in this area. Which means as soon as the wind gets over tropical storm force, ya'll probably won't be seeing me again for a minimum of 48 hours.

I'll be in trouble if it goes up the Chesapeake.
Do not want that.

225 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:03:09pm

re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, and all our local power lines are above ground, at least in this area. Which means as soon as the wind gets over tropical storm force, ya'll probably won't be seeing me again for a minimum of 48 hours.

You as well. Don't forget to wear your Mae West.

//

226 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:03:31pm

Just talked to my youngest daughter. She is a Grand Central going to to Connecticut for the weekend. My other daughter is staying in Crown Heights, my sons are in the Catskills.

227 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:03:50pm

re: #225 Gus 802

You as well. Don't forget to wear your Mae West.

//

Well, you have the earthquakes, DAMMIT, and...
Dammit!/

228 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:04:07pm

re: #220 Varek Raith

I dis Baltimore like I dis NJ.
Cause I can.
:)

Well... New Jersey... yes. That's a given.

;)

(for the record, I lived in Medford in the '70s, and found it reasonably pleasant)

229 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:04:38pm

re: #225 Gus 802

You as well. Don't forget to wear your Mae West.

//

Son, I'm a sinner. And I'm sure that this God's way of saying...something to me. Not sure what, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with the pr0n on my hard drive.

//

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:04:47pm

From Page 2:

"According to former CIA officer and terrorism consultant Marc Sageman, just as religious extremism "is the infrastructure from which Al Qaeda emerged, "the writings of these anti-Muslim misinformation experts are "the infrastructrure from which Breivik emerged." Sageman addes that their rehetoric "is not cost-free."

231 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:04:56pm

re: #228 MrSilverDragon

Well... New Jersey... yes. That's a given.

;)

(for the record, I lived in Medford in the '70s, and found it reasonably pleasant)

I lived in NJ half my life.
Wasn't too bad.

232 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:05:45pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Son, I'm a sinner. And I'm sure that this God's way of saying...something to me. Not sure what, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with the pr0n on my hard drive.

//

Quick! Find a priest and confess to your sins! There is still hope.

//

233 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:05:49pm

re: #217 MrSilverDragon

Seriously, it's not all like "The Wire". I worked in downtown Baltimore and it wasn't that bad. I liked walking down to the harbor for lunch and visiting the science museum on occasion. However, there are certain places that I wouldn't set foot for fear of my life.

Happy to hear you made it out alive! :)

234 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:06:03pm

All that's left is an asteroid to hit my state next week.
Sheesh.

235 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:06:10pm

re: #232 Gus 802

Quick! Find a priest and confess to your sins! There is still hope.

//

Never! With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!

//

236 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:06:22pm

JB MDL prepares for Hurricane Irene

8/26/2011 - JOINT BASE MCGUIRE-DIX-LAKEHURST, N.J. -- Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst is actively preparing for Hurricane Irene.

The base entered Hurricane Condition III on Aug. 25. HURCON III is declared when the weather forecast predicts the arrival of 50-knot (58 mph) or greater winds within 48 hours.

"Hurricane Irene is expected to be a category 2 storm as it approaches the New Jersey coast," said Senior Master Sgt. Ron Bradford, 305th Operations Support Squadron Weather Flight superintendent. "This is a very large storm system with hurricane force winds extending out up to 90 miles from the center. A direct hit by this system is not necessary to cause wide-spread damage."

237 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:07:07pm

In case anyone is wondering (Lawhawk, if you're around), tomorrow's Mets game has been canceled.

238 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:07:36pm

re: #235 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Never! With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!

//

Oh, right, right, with the bones. I always forget about the bones...

239 engineer cat  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:08:04pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Son, I'm a sinner. And I'm sure that this God's way of saying...something to me. Not sure what, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with the pr0n on my hard drive.

//

i'm sure the almighty will spare us from any further disasters as long as we hate and persecute all members of the disapproved groups

///

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:08:25pm

Greets from Rotterdam.

241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:09:15pm

Have to get to the International Secret Cabal of Very Bad People...

I'm late.

Have a great afternoon all!

242 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:09:48pm

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

Greets from Rotterdam.

Seen any dykes lately?

//

243 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:10:55pm

re: #241 ggt

Have to get to the International Secret Cabal of Very Bad People...

I'm late.

Have a great afternoon all!

That could be either a bank or the IRS.

//

244 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:11:30pm

re: #243 Gus 802

That could be either a bank or the IRS.

//

The IRS: We Have What It Takes To Take What You Have.

245 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:13:08pm

So when do the locusts arrive?

//

246 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:14:06pm

re: #245 Gus 802

So when do the locusts arrive?

//

They've already come and gone. Or, as we call them around here: "Tourists."

/

247 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:15:05pm

"Scalpel. Blood bucket. Priest. Next patient!"

Later gators.
:)

248 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:16:35pm

Hahahaha!

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
Paul: "We should be like 1900, we should be like 1940 1950 1960..I live on the gulf coast, we deal with hurricanes all the time" #Irene

Paul as in Ron Paul.

249 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:17:25pm

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
On Hurrican #Irene, @ronpaul just told me US should forgoe national response, revert back to how govt worked in 1900/1950

250 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:17:52pm

re: #248 Gus 802

Hahahaha!

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
Paul: "We should be like 1900, we should be like 1940 1950 1960..I live on the gulf coast, we deal with hurricanes all the time" #Irene

Paul as in Ron Paul.

I really can't decipher the message he's trying to get across. Does anyone speak Paul here?

251 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:17:59pm

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
Paul: "There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing..quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank."

252 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:18:12pm

re: #249 Gus 802

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
On Hurrican #Irene, @ronpaul just told me US should forgoe national response, revert back to how govt worked in 1900/1950

Gracias.

253 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:18:44pm

Muslims as a Mirror : Germany's Unhealthy Obsession with Islam

But what does one gain from calling the killer a "right-wing brother of the jihadists," as Weiss does, and characterizing the events in Norway as "the Talibanization of the Christian right"? This reinforces the old prejudice of the European left, namely, that religion in itself is always and exclusively dangerous. Yet this overlooks the fact that it was political, non-religious worldviews that inflicted endless suffering on humanity in the 20th century. It also suggests that there is a worldwide ecumenical movement of religions that are prepared to use violence and that have become a threat to the non-religious. In Weiss's mind, the events in Norway represent a "fatal embrace" between "crusaders and jihadists."

But if one is to establish a commonality between right-wing extremists like Breivik and jihadists, it lies not in a violent ecumenical movement, but in the shared psychosocial circumstances of the perpetrators. Terrorism is a problem among culturally uprooted, politically radical angry young men who are often educated but unsuccessful. They are men who rebel against a world in which they no longer feel at home. They have higher expectations of the world than it could ever fulfill.

In his influential book "Männerphantasien" ("Male Fantasies"), the German sociologist Klaus Theweleit offers a plausible explanation for the relationship between fascism and delusions of masculinity. If we consider the narcissistic outpourings of the mass murderer behind the Oslo and Utøya attacks, it is not difficult to recognize that he too dreamed the dream of the masculine knight -- depicted as courageous, tough, white, potentially brutal but ultimately irresistible -- who acts as the savior of a society portrayed as corruptible, soft, permissive, comfortable, feminine and in urgent need of purification. For Breivik, the sympathy that society expresses for the victims is presumably additional proof of its decadence. His goal was not to combat the Muslims, but to rescue his own society from disintegration.

What, then, is the source of this obsession with Islam? Fifteen years ago, there were about 2 million Turkish immigrants in Germany. Today, Germany's immigrants from Turkey are often lumped into a single category of "Muslims." Their critics say that it is not Turkish parents' own lack of education that prevents their children from doing well in school, but their religious affiliation. Muslim "headscarf girls" (ed's note: a phrase coined by the controversial German author Thilo Sarrazin) are characterized as both a threat to feminism and dangerous baby-making machines obsessed with "demographic jihad." Some cite the supposed threat of Muslim parallel societies, apparently ignoring the fact that for centuries Germans have lived in parallel societies consisting of Catholics and Protestants.

"Islam" has become a social phantasm. According to the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan, the term "phantasm" refers to a negated and repressed lack. As well as individual phantasms, which point to a repressed deficiency and to unattainable objects of desire, there are also societal obsessions, which relate to socially repressed deficiencies and unattained desires. The phantasm does not describe a real object. Instead, it indicates what is lacking.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

254 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:20:23pm

re: #253 000G

What are these deficiencies? What is lacking? It isn't the same for everyone. Thilo Sarrazin decries what he sees as a lack of German children. The German politician Klaus von Dohnanyi believes immigrants are more devout than Germans. Others admire their family values. Turks who celebrate loudly and raucously after their team has won a football match are praised for their national pride. We even grudgingly acknowledge the willingness of suicide bombers to sacrifice their lives. Our own population seems lazy, indecisive, fearful, spoiled and endlessly demanding in comparison.

[...]

There is a range of other deficiencies, wishes, fears and desires that motivate the phantasm of "Islam," from the yearning for a homogeneous German population to a highly individualized social model that deconstructs all things institutional. The real problem is that we are not actually discussing Islam at all. Instead, we are -- in the sense that we are talking about what we are not -- actually discussing ourselves. For this reason, I would give the following piece of Kant-inspired advice: "Have the courage to use your own religio-political reason without referring to the Other of Islam." It is not the dispute over the phantasm of "Islam" that is productive, but the impartial analysis of the goals of the religio-political parties that are at odds in our country.

This would remove an enormous burden from the everyday lives of Muslims. They could simply view themselves as a religious minority among others, like the Jews for example, a minority that seeks to practice its religion within the framework of what is legally permissible -- nothing more and nothing less. Problems relating to education, integration and equality could then be addressed as such in a nuanced and appropriate manner without being immediately framed within the context of a culture war. German Muslims would be relieved of the need to justify themselves every time an Islamist suicide bomber commits an attack somewhere in the world. They would be seen primarily as German citizens and only secondarily as members of a world religion.

This would make it easier to differentiate between the idea of "Islam" and the many ways to be a Muslim man or woman in Germany, a country that guarantees religious freedom. Finally, the various Muslim organizations could calmly coordinate among themselves, without having to confront external pressures, regarding how they want to jointly interact with mainstream society.

Without a fantastical view of "Islam," the German debate over religious policy would then become both tougher and clearer. Secularists, who seek to make religion an entirely private affair, and so-called culturalists, who seek to give priority to Christianity, could no longer sustain their joint campaign against Islam. They would be forced to recognize that the respective social models they envision are completely contradictory. Constitutional liberals, on the one hand, would have to join forces with the secularists in demanding equal rights for all religions, thereby opposing the culturalists. On the other hand, they would have to support the culturalists in preventing what the secularists seek, namely, making religious matters private and eliminating religion from the public sphere.

Within such a framework, groups such as the "ex-Muslims" would also lose their unique credibility. When, for example, the German-Egyptian political scientist and Islam critic Hamed Abdel-Samad advocates limiting the influence of organized religion in Germany "to detoxify this society," one could argue that the established religions in Germany promote anti-totalitarian and individual freedom and that they can look back on a tradition of keeping civil society alive. Germany's religious policy is not based on the elimination of religions from the public sphere, but the civilization of religions through public religious education.

255 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:20:26pm

Libyans find freedom at Moammar Gaddafi’s Abu Salim prison in Tripoli

In the fourteen years that Islamic activist Saad al-Eshouli spent in a small cell in one of the most notorious prisons of Moammar Gaddafi’s Libya, the outside world had become a distant memory.

So when rebels opened the gates of the Abu Salim prison Wednesday and he joined the other 2,500 detainees pouring out, he was amazed by novelties such as mobile phones and satellite dishes.

256 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:20:34pm

re: #248 Gus 802

Hahahaha!

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
Paul: "We should be like 1900, we should be like 1940 1950 1960..I live on the gulf coast, we deal with hurricanes all the time" #Irene

Paul as in Ron Paul.

What an idiot. 1900 Galveston Hurricane, Over 8,000 dead.
[Link: www.ritainfo.com...]

257 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:20:39pm

re: #250 JasonA

I really can't decipher the message he's trying to get across. Does anyone speak Paul here?

Bootstraps... We don't need no stinking FEMA... or some shit like that.

258 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:21:02pm

re: #250 JasonA

I really can't decipher the message he's trying to get across. Does anyone speak Paul here?

"BACK IN MY DAY..."

259 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:21:20pm

re: #249 Gus 802

@JoNBCNews Jo Ling Kent
On Hurrican #Irene, @ronpaul just told me US should forgoe national response, revert back to how govt worked in 1900/1950

1900 Galveston hurricane

The hurricane caused great loss of life with the estimated death toll between 6,000 and 12,000 individuals; the number most cited in official reports is 8,000

I see no reason we shouldn't revert to that. Bootstraps!

260 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:21:59pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"BACK IN MY DAY..."

"When there weren't so many Jews, and the women and negroes knew their place!"
//

261 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:22:12pm

re: #256 jaunte

What an idiot. 1900 Galveston Hurricane, Over 8,000 dead.
[Link: www.ritainfo.com...]

re: #259 publicityStunted

1900 Galveston hurricane

That DOCTOR Ron Paul. He's a SCIENTIST don't you know.

//

262 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:23:07pm

All this talk about "bootstraps" but what if somebody has no boots?

Sucks to be them, right?

264 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:23:34pm

re: #259 publicityStunted

In 1900 we didn't accept weather reports from furriners:

America's patronizing stance toward Cuba, for instance, shut down forecasts from Cuban meteorologists, who had accurately predicted the Galveston storm's course and true scale, even as U.S. weather officials issued mollifying bulletins calling for mere rain and high winds.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

265 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:24:13pm

re: #262 Alouette

All this talk about "bootstraps" but what if somebody has no boots?

Sucks to be them, right?

They don't have boots because they don't love Jesus.

266 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:24:16pm

re: #261 Gus 802

re: #259 publicityStunted

That DOCTOR Ron Paul. He's a SCIENTIST don't you know.

Government-funded weather satellites help the undesirables avoid their God-determined fate, and are therefore secular socialist.

267 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:24:31pm

re: #250 JasonA

I speak Paulese/Luapese:

If you're on the East Coast, don't worry about where and when the hurricane will hit since you don't have satellite information and hurricane hunters, and the NOAA and USGS can't help you figure out where the storm is going and the kind of damage that will occur. In other words, be like we were back then; you're screwed and don't count on the government to help and as past experience has shown when you don't know where and how a hurricane will hit, we can lose lots of lives (see the Richeleau apts during Camille).

The short version: NO FED. Buy Gold. Down with the NOAA!

268 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:26:11pm

re: #267 lawhawk

The short version: NO FED. Buy Gold. Down with the NOAA!

Shorter version:

269 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:26:13pm

The only difference I have with this report is the use of the word "Islamophobia." I'm still not fond of this neologism, because it implies that fear is the main driving force -- and while there's an element of fear to it, I think at the bottom it's really just good old-fashioned human being-style bigotry and prejudice, often fueled by long ethnic and tribal histories and of course, by religion.

I prefer "anti-Muslim" instead of "Islamophobic," because the bigots are actually prejudiced against the people, not primarily afraid of the religion.

270 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:31:05pm

I will say that it's quite considerate of Irene to shut down our city's mass transit on the weekend. Quite sporting of her.

271 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:31:10pm

re: #269 Charles

The only difference I have with this report is the use of the word "Islamophobia." I'm still not fond of this neologism, because it implies that fear is the main driving force -- and while there's an element of fear to it, I think at the bottom it's really just good old-fashioned human being-style bigotry and prejudice, often fueled by long ethnic and tribal histories and of course, by religion.

I prefer "anti-Muslim" instead of "Islamophobic," because the bigots are actually prejudiced against the people, not primarily afraid of the religion.

I don't like the use of "phobia" in this context (homophobia) because, as you said, these people are primarily driven by hate, not fear, and secondly, because "phobia" implies a mental disability.

272 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:31:50pm

Christian Group's Spokesperson: No proof homosexuals exist

This is from a group who lists one of their stated goals as the prevention of witchcraft.

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:32:11pm

re: #269 Charles

Phobia is not (necessarily) a fear.

φόβος = alarm, apprehension, awe, dismay, dread, fear, fright, jitter, panic

274 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:33:25pm

Not part of MLK's dream...

MLK Jr. Memorial Statue Completed Using Unpaid Chinese Laborers

The opening ceremony for the new Martin Luther King Jr. memorial has been postponed as Hurricane Irene closes in on the East Coast, but when it does open, the monument will do so under a different cloud as some point out that the way it was constructed violates some of the core principles for which King fought and died. While often overshadowed by his civil rights legacy, King was an outspoken defender of labor rights and was supporting striking sanitation workers in Memphis, Tennessee when he was assassinated. But his memorial was built, in part, using free labor imported from China.

275 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:35:13pm

re: #273 Sergey Romanov

Phobia is not (necessarily) a fear.

φόβος = alarm, apprehension, awe, dismay, dread, fear, fright, jitter, panic

You can't fight usage. Well, you can, but it eats up a lot of otherwise productive time.

276 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:35:21pm

re: #272 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Christian Group's Spokesperson: No proof homosexuals exist

This is from a group who lists one of their stated goals as the prevention of witchcraft.

No proof? He should go to the Folsom Street Fair. That should be the QED for that proof.

277 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:37:43pm

re: #237 makeitstop

Thanks, got the notification that they've canceled the Sat/Sun games. The Sat game will be part of a doubleheader on the 10th, no makeup date for the Sunday game. Saturday's tickets will give access for both games on the 10th.

278 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:39:50pm

re: #272 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Christian Group's Spokesperson: No proof homosexuals exist

This is from a group who lists one of their stated goals as the prevention of witchcraft.

I guess they won't be voting for Rick Perry.

Perry signs pledge on anti-gay marriage amendment

Bonus fingerpistol photo at link.

279 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #263 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOP Congressmen Put Constituents Who Asked Tough Questions On A ‘Watch List’

Wow. Move over Hugo Chavez. I still think that the GOP has a lot in common with South American dictators both past and present.

280 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:42:13pm

re: #274 JasonA

Not part of MLK's dream...

MLK Jr. Memorial Statue Completed Using Unpaid Chinese Laborers

What a country.

281 zora  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:43:08pm

re: #272 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Christian Group's Spokesperson: No proof homosexuals exist

This is from a group who lists one of their stated goals as the prevention of witchcraft.

just like there are no homosexuals in iran.

282 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:44:04pm

re: #281 zora

just like there are no homosexuals in iran.

It is a decadent Western phenomenon.
/Party Chairman mode

283 zora  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:45:08pm

re: #276 MrSilverDragon

re: #276 MrSilverDragon

No proof? He should go to the Folsom Street Fair. That should be the QED for that proof.

again. to make sure he doesn't like it.

284 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:46:13pm

re: #276 MrSilverDragon

No proof? He should go to the Folsom Street Fair. That should be the QED for that proof.

Yep. And if he does go it will probably become a habit like it did with Zombie.

"It's for the research."

//

285 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:46:22pm

Jeez, this is an incredibly beautiful day we're having here in NY. It's like a last meal or something...

286 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:49:09pm

re: #285 JasonA

Jeez, this is an incredibly beautiful day we're having here in NY. It's like a last meal or something...

re: #285 JasonA

Jeez, this is an incredibly beautiful day we're having here in NY. It's like a last meal or something...

so forlorn...I expect you will survive

287 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:49:12pm
288 jamesfirecat  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:49:22pm

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

It only becomes a clash of civilizations if we let it be one.

Otherwise its just a bunch of backwards thinking rabble rousers trying to drag the world into their idea of a perfectly religious theocracy.

289 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:50:17pm

re: #285 JasonA

I heard the birds are gone now. That true?

290 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:52:35pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

I heard the birds are gone now. That true?

I saw one about an hour ago, so I don't think so.

293 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:54:12pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Syrian cartoonist Ali Ferzat's self-portrait after getting attacked by masked gunmen yesterday.

And yeah. If you click on the image on that link some of you won't like what you see. Anywho. I like the self-portrait.

294 Kragar  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:54:49pm

The bloom is off the rose...

Event Organizer: Bachmann’s behavior left people ‘kinda pissed’

Judd Saul, of the the Black Hawk County organizers for a recent Waterloo event that featured Bachmann, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and former U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum, told Fox News reporter Steve Brown that Bachmann needs to “can the Barack Obama rock star crap” because her behavior at the Waterloo event left folks “kinda pissed.”

A similar sentiment was expressed in The Iowa Independent’s 2012 Presidential Power Rankings on Aug. 15 when some panelists who were in attendance in Black Hawk County described the campaign as “abrupt.”

… “You don’t come to Iowa, like she did last night [in Waterloo], first trying to make certain demands of county parties, then showing up late, then not taking time to meet one-on-one with the Iowans that came to see you,” a panelist said. “That’s not how you play in Iowa — even Barack Obama figured that out in 2007. So she can’t get up on stage talking about how she is one of us, an Iowan, or that she is a ‘real person,’ but then refuse to do retail politics.” …

295 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:55:44pm

re: #294 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The wheels on that short bus are coming off...

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:56:10pm

re: #275 wrenchwench

You can't fight usage. Well, you can, but it eats up a lot of otherwise productive time.

Sure, and in usage -phobia = either fear or aversion, the second being rightly applied in our case.

That said, I like "anti-Muslim" better myself, because it focuses on individual followers of religion, not on religion itself, which I don't have to like.

297 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:57:14pm

Just one disaster after another...

Skyrim DLC to be Xbox 360-exclusive for 30 days

298 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:57:20pm

re: #295 lawhawk

The wheels on that short bus are coming off...

she's a zealot...bound to fuck it up sooner or later, she'll likely tell the Iowans to drop dead...how dare they criticize her

299 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:57:44pm

re: #290 JasonA

Evidently, this person of Wunderground who said this is in Westchester County.

300 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:58:58pm

re: #299 ProLifeLiberal

Evidently, this person of Wunderground who said this is in Westchester County.

Me too, and I totally watched a seagull fly over my car while driving south on Central Avenue and wondered if it was going to poop on my roof.

301 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:01:01pm

re: #297 JasonA

Just one disaster after another...

Skyrim DLC to be Xbox 360-exclusive for 30 days

They did the same thing with New Vegas when Dead Money was released. XBox exclusive, then eventually released to Steam and PSN users.

302 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:01:39pm

re: #301 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They did the same thing with New Vegas when Dead Money was released. XBox exclusive, then eventually released to Steam and PSN users.

Bah. Still sux.

303 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:01:48pm

re: #300 JasonA

Hmm. I sense exaggeration from wunderground guy. Models are split between it staying inland, or coast-grazing.

304 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:03:02pm

re: #293 Gus 802

And yeah. If you click on the image on that link some of you won't like what you see. Anywho. I like the self-portrait.

Or what I meant to say was that that link is not an endorsement of everything else you may find there. It's not the cartoonist's website either. Cheers.

305 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:03:40pm

Right Wing Watch
@rightwingwatch Right Wing Watch
The American Family Association posted a guide to Judaism with an emphasis on how to convert Jews to Christianity [Link: t.co...]

306 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:03:46pm

Biden, pallin' around with Mongol hordes.

[Link: media.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

307 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:05:33pm

Seems like Irene was downgraded. Must be all those cancelled male mani/pedis and theater shows up and down the East Coast.

Even being Sorta Gay contributes to The Troubles. Every little bit helps!

308 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:10:47pm

P 47:

Indeed, in recent yeras, Spencer's comments criticizing Islam ahve become so loathsome that fellow conservative Charles Johnson, founder of the popular, right-leaning Little Green Footballs, believes he has "crossed the line from simply criticizing radical Islamists to relentlessly demonizing all Muslims."

309 Gus  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:13:04pm

Too early to start drinking?

Stateside

Those two guys are from the UK.

310 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:13:15pm

re: #271 Alouette

I don't like the use of "phobia" in this context (homophobia) because, as you said, these people are primarily driven by hate, not fear, and secondly, because "phobia" implies a mental disability.

Yes, yes it does.

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:14:42pm

re: #310 ggt

Yes, yes it does.

Not really. Homophobic, hydrophobic, acidophobic...

312 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:17:45pm

re: #72 marjoriemoon

It's absolutely a clash of cultures. Fear of Muslims is not much different than fear of Jews or anything that appears different. The cultures are different. Either white Americans hating on Middle Eastern Americans or the other way around.

200+ comments later, heh...

I agree with the first part about fear of anything that appears different, with "appears" being the key word. There are many American Muslims, like myself, whose "mother culture" is 100% American, not Middle Eastern, so the cultures aren't necessarily different.

Some of us are different in our dress, but not any more so than certain other religious people or people who wear prefer their ethnic or peer group dress for non-religious reasons (African men & women with their colorful clothing, Indian men & women in theirs, goths, punk rockers, etcetera). Our religious practices are different, but so what? Everyone's are. As long as I'm not insisting that someone let me pray int their living room or whatever, I don't see why it should be an issue.

And it's not just white Americans hating on the perceived differences, the bigotry comes from all kinds of people, including those who have been victims of it in the past themselves.

313 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:20:55pm

re: #297 JasonA

Just one disaster after another...

Skyrim DLC to be Xbox 360-exclusive for 30 days

That's not a disaster for me, since I plan on buying Skyrim for the 360. Heh.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:21:32pm
4Comment rated by: HypnoToad

Posted by: Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds in article: Exposed: 'Fear Inc.' - The Anti-Muslim Hate Industry

re: #232 Gus 802 Never! With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg! //

Heh.

315 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:24:11pm

re: #309 Gus 802

Too early to start drinking?

Stateside

[Video]Those two guys are from the UK.

what a sweet sounding duet...listening to their other stuff

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:24:45pm

I don't know, I think if my last name was "Shoebat", I'd change it.

just me?

317 jaunte  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:25:24pm

re: #316 ggt

Shoebat don't bother me.

318 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:25:35pm

re: #316 ggt

I don't know, I think if my last name was "Shoebat", I'd change it.

just me?

Barking shoebat!

319 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:25:56pm

re: #317 jaunte

Shoebat don't bother me.

Get a Shoebat!

320 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:26:17pm

re: #313 Lidane

That's not a disaster for me, since I plan on buying Skyrim for the 360. Heh.

I could never buy a game like that for the console. I needs my mods.

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:28:12pm

Am I misinformed?

Doesn't the Establishment Clause pretty much nullify Sharia?

322 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:29:17pm

re: #321 ggt

Am I misinformed?

Doesn't the Establishment Clause pretty much nullify Sharia?

In the courts it certainly does.

323 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:30:25pm

re: #320 JasonA

I could never buy a game like that for the console. I needs my mods.

My desktop PC is ancient and has a blown out video card. Plus, I pretty much live and die by my laptop these days.

Skyrim has to be on the 360 for me. It's the only way I could play it since my computer wouldn't run Skyrim even if it works, and using the laptop for a game like it would be a pain in the ass.

324 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:30:36pm

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

325 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:31:19pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

re: #324 Killgore Trout

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

he's dying

326 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:31:38pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

Man looks like a skeleton. Guess it's better he bowed out gracefully, choosing the time, instead of leaving his company hanging due to his passing.

327 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:32:13pm

re: #325 albusteve

re: #324 Killgore Trout

he's dying

Looks like he doesn't have much time left. Very sad.

328 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:32:27pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

Damn, so it really is that bad.

329 Lidane  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:32:37pm

re: #321 ggt

Am I misinformed?

Doesn't the Establishment Clause pretty much nullify Sharia?

Which is why all this "ZOMG CREEPING SHARIA" nonsense is so stupid.

For the United States to ever adopt anything close to the Saudi model of Sharia government, we'd have to dismantle our entire system of government from the top down.

330 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:33:48pm

re: #15 tomg51spence

I read the part about those who promote mis-information about sharia law. I'm still where I was. I would not want to live in any country I know of that has a majority muslim population. I'm not afraid. I do not think there is any possibility of sharia becoming prevalent in the US for generations to come. But I would rather it did not occur.

Given that Muslims are a tiny fragment of the population, and that there is no actual reason to think that that sharia will ever 'become prevalent' here, can I ask why it does not offend you that people are making and spending money trying to MAKE you afraid?

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:33:59pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

Steve Jobs After the Resignation
Dude is not looking good.

so sad

332 albusteve  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:34:11pm

re: #327 Killgore Trout

Looks like he doesn't have much time left. Very sad.

yeah...there is no cure....it's a beast

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:34:24pm

re: #18 Alouette

As it happens this family member has NOT donated to my 501(c)(3).

Are you fighting imaginary sharia crawl? No? Then why should he support your work? Huh?

334 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:35:36pm

re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist

Given that Muslims are a tiny fragment of the population, and that there is no actual reason to think that that sharia will ever 'become prevalent' here, can I ask why it does not offend you that people are making and spending money trying to MAKE you afraid?

It's a red herring for the work the dominionists are doing.

That is all,

NEXT . .

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:36:14pm

re: #29 Obdicut

It's really annoying that during a depression, with good, honest people out of work, scraping by, or sinking under, that bigots, malcontents, and racists are getting millions of dollars.

That's true! I could totally spread bigotry and paranoia for a fraction of what they're paying...

Wait...

336 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:37:33pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

The most maddening thing to me about the Anti Muslim crap is how eerie similar it is to past discrimination of Catholic, Jewish, and Japanese immigrants. You know the whole question of loyalty to the country and all that. It's sickening. We're gonna look back at this with collective disgust in coming years.

Yes, we will. Of course, by then the Zulus will be taking over, with their creepy customs and endless babies and divided loyalies, and then it will be REAL that time FOR SURE.

337 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:39:00pm

re: #271 Alouette

I don't like the use of "phobia" in this context (homophobia) because, as you said, these people are primarily driven by hate, not fear, and secondly, because "phobia" implies a mental disability.

Phobia implies an irrational fear yes, but not necessarily a mental disability. The fear response has to be beyond the normal reaction to plausible harm, the homophobe's idea that gays marriage harms straight marriage or families, the arachnophobes idea that non threatening spider species are deadly dangerous, the ballistophobes idea that a lone bullet outside a gun might spontaneously detonate and kill someone, or the Islamophobes idea that Muslims are poised and ready to destroy their way of life. Phobias can, over time, entirely be overcome with controlled exposure therapy, mental disabilities to my mind constitute a different, less correctable class of structural problems.

I don't think that the hate lives independent of the fear, but that it is born out of a genuine, if deeply held misunderstanding that generates the irrational fear/hate response. These people don't genuinely understand how the things they're reacting to actually work in the real world. Sometimes the misunderstanding can be alleviated with education, sometimes it's too entrenched, but to say that it's not fear but hate strikes me as an oversimplification.

338 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:39:28pm

re: #54 lgffan

I don't know. I am still skeptical about Islam being the religion of peace. Or any religion being a religion of peace for that matter. I do believe there are a significant number of middle eastern and other moslems who hate america, americans, israel, israelis, the west in general and jews. I do not believe the fear mongering, but candidly, do believe there is a clash of civilizations occurring and that we (westerners) are generally in denial about the parties involved.

What would we do if we were less in denial?

Seems to me we can take care of business pretty good without freaking the fuck out because Campbells is making halal soup, and the mosque down the street wants a new building.

339 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:43:24pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

Cultural conflict is not the same thing as seeing the world in terms of Western Culture being threatened by The Return of the Caliphate.

(Sorry for the delay. Customers...)

Stupid customers.

Yeah, this is a big part of it for me. These guys have gotten to the point where they no longer have any sense of political reality, because it all centers around this concept of a unified Islam (which is, in and of itself, a hoot), doing NOTHING without reference to a unified game plan.

Everyone, from Ahmedinejad, to al-Zawahiri, to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, to Hamas, to Mrs. al-Haddadi down the block, is focused on just one thing, making your wife wear a burqa.

340 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:45:01pm

off again,

Up to page 85 in my reading.

A nicely worded section on Crazy Pammy starting at page 70.

341 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:46:24pm

re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist

...because it all centers around this concept of a unified Islam (which is, in and of itself, a hoot)...

LOL, QFT.

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:47:07pm

re: #119 ggt

Focus on Islamists, only, is misguided.

We need to focus on all extreme ideologies.

Actions speak louder than words. If a group is trying to pass a law taking away my liberties, I am going to oppose it, whether they're Christians, Muslims, or Jains.

I am also not going to get hysterical about how all Christians, Muslims, or Jains are out to get me.

Seriously, as a Jew, I've got ISSUES as they relate to much of the Muslim world, having to do with history and politics. I've got issues with large swathes of the Christian world on that score as well. But that does not distract me from my participation in the marvelousness that is America, where regardless of what crap we brought from the old country, or what crap is still happening in the old country, we live in a country where shit like that don't go down if we can help it.

343 tomg51spence  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:48:03pm

re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist
Lots of things offend me. Most involve taking advantage of other people or insulting and demeaning them. Its just not called for in a civilized, or any society.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:49:18pm

re: #184 CuriousLurker

Yep, musalla.

The Yiddish word is 'shtiebl'.

345 Aziz Poonawalla  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:50:22pm

Wow. I had no idea this was the second diary to ever be promoted. I wish I could claim it's due to my writing genius, but really it's solely because of 1. Wajahat's (and his CAP sidekicks) months of hard work, and 2. Charles' recognition and saavy about what this report portends. I'm just the messenger.

Re #54 LGFFan - look, "religion of peace" is a meaningless phrase. It's as meaningless as religion of Love, of War, of Spaghetti. A religion is just a collection of actions and beliefs that are believed to have higher meaning; but it's really an inert object. It's the actions of its adherents that give it life and meaning, and in any sufficiently large group of adherents, you will have diversity. In diversity, you will have minorities, and extremists.

If you want to be skeptical, that is great. Let's consider empirical data instead of partisans spouting phrases like "religion of peace". Here's hard data: there are 1 billion muslims on the planet. If there were something to the idea that Islam is more dangerous than other religions, I think you'd see a world very different from one in which Arab youth courageously take to the streets in defiance of tyrants.

I apologize for being AWOL from this fantastic thread. It's time for Friday afternoon prayer and I'm a bit worn out from the fasting. Ramadan is nearly over, and I'm hanging on :) I'll try to check in tonight.

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:50:53pm

re: #281 zora

just like there are no homosexuals in iran.

"I know you say there's no gays in Iran, but you're in New York City now, baby!!"

347 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:52:42pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

"I know you say there's no gays in Iran, but you're in New York City now, baby!!"

“You Can Deny The Holocaust, But You Can’t Deny There Is Something Between Us”

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:53:26pm

re: #343 tomg51spence

Lots of things offend me. Most involve taking advantage of other people or insulting and demeaning them. Its just not called for in a civilized, or any society.

It seems to me that this sort of fear-mongering is exactly that. It's about taking advantage of people, insulting them, and demeaning them. Muslims and their target audience both.

349 Aziz Poonawalla  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:05:31pm

re: #77 Charles

The point of this report (as I see it) is not to whitewash Islamic extremism -- it's to expose the groups that are actively demonizing ALL Muslims and spreading irrational "shariah panic."

agreed. There really needs to be more PR from the muslim American community about how much we do to cooperate against terror and be vigilant against it, but that's a whole nother topic.

re: #312 CuriousLurker

Some of us are different in our dress, but not any more so than certain other religious people or people who wear prefer their ethnic or peer group dress for non-religious reasons (African men & women with their colorful clothing, Indian men & women in theirs, goths, punk rockers, etcetera). Our religious practices are different, but so what? Everyone's are. As long as I'm not insisting that someone let me pray int their living room or whatever, I don't see why it should be an issue

word, brother :)

re: #16 Lidane

I knew the author sounded familiar! I've read City of Brass before. Good blog. Definitely worth checking out.

Thank you :)

350 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:06:06pm

re: #345 azizhp

Thanks for the info, it's a very nice confirmation of what I'd always thought.

It really, really is sad both how much is spent on this, and how cheap it is to demonize an entire group of people.

351 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:06:21pm

re: #349 azizhp

That brother is a sister, by the way.

352 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:09:13pm

re: #349 azizhp

re: #312 CuriousLurker

word, brother :)

Sister. BTW, if I don't see you again before the end of Ramadan, "Eid mubarak!" ;o)

353 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:09:21pm

re: #349 azizhp

May I also say that I found your take on the South Park cartoons to be extremely sagacious.

[Link: blog.beliefnet.com...]

The right way to inculcate respect for the Prophet among non-muslims is not to act like a barbarian but to simply express ourselves and explain our beliefs – and then excercise our own right, to walk away. It is by their own actions, supposedly in “defense” of the Prophet, that these extremists actually cause greater offense to the Prophet’s legacy than any mere cartoon.

Very well said. As an atheist, you're exactly the sort of devout person I can get along with best.

354 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:19:02pm

re: #353 Obdicut

May I also say that I found your take on the South Park cartoons to be extremely sagacious.

[Link: blog.beliefnet.com...]

Very well said. As an atheist, you're exactly the sort of devout person I can get along with best.

I'm actually quite upset at this poster... for not posting more.

:P

355 efuseakay  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:42:29pm

Those very people this is about will dismiss it in the blink of an eye because of Wajahat Ali's name.

356 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:53:47pm

re: #355 efuseakay

Those very people this is about will dismiss it in the blink of an eye because of Wajahat Ali's name.

Some people will dismiss anything with a non-WASP sounding name on it, but that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop them from trying to get their point across.

357 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 3:48:00pm

This is well written and informative.

In no way do I mean to dismiss or demean the millions of hardworking and kind-hearted Muslims out there. I am well aware that Sharia opinions and rulings are far from monolithic and that there is tremendous variation in Sharia from community to community. I have no beef with the rights of other Americans to practice their faith, or have disputes voluntarily bindingly arbitrated in America.

It is absolutely true that a series of neo fascists have made Islam into a bogey man for their own twisted political ends.

I make a strong distinction between an educated Muslim in the West and the less than pleasant people in other parts of the world.

That said, what of the balanced picture?

It is absolutely true that Sharia involves charity and compassion. It is also absolutely true that in many nations, it provides for public decapitation, brutal stoning, dismemberment and a host of barbaric medieval punishments. Women are treated abhorrently. Homosexuals must live in fear for their lives. Members of other faiths are literally second class citizens if allowed to be present at all.

The one thing that this article seems to fail to address are the very legitimate concerns with the way this code is practices in most majority Muslim nations.

So no

358 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 3:56:55pm

*headdesk*

359 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 3:57:19pm

re: #357 LudwigVanQuixote

It's a report about Islamaphobia in the US, so that really wasn't the point.

Muslims in the US are not practicing a sharia anything like that in the Middle East.

360 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:05:49pm

re: #359 Obdicut

It is a report that also wishes to make it sound like there is absolutely nothing to consider unpleasant as well. I am no friend of Spencer et al. I hate neo-fascist types and I hate the idea of stripping innocent Americans of their rights. I am all for making distinctions.


To write in such a way that it is somehow bizarre or wrong to think anything other than all Sharia is a sweet thing at all times is incorrect. To claim that very harsh and brutal backwards things are not in line with the way it is practised in many parts of the world by millions of people is incorrect.

Who defines what Sharia is? Muslims do. Not all Muslims agree.

I fully understand that many Muslims define it in ways that anyone else would consider benevolent and beneficial. I do not dispute that. However, in many cases there are many Muslims who do not define it that way and it is not correct to pretend that anyone pointing this out is of necessity bigoted or living in fantasy. That is what I object to.

361 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:08:56pm

re: #358 CuriousLurker

*headdesk*

Head desk away... The democratically elected government of Gaza, Hamas, who claim in their charter that Sharia obligates Muslims to murder all Jews are busy raining rockets on people I know and love right now.

362 Jerk  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:11:15pm

What is sick is how Islamophobia has become so mainstream now. It's nice to see some investigation on this, and hopefully the MSM picks up on it (you know, after the hurricane).

363 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:11:17pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

Head desk away... The democratically elected government of Gaza, Hamas, who claim in their charter that Sharia obligates Muslims to murder all Jews are busy raining rockets on people I know and love right now.

What does that have to do with a report about the Islamophobia network in America?

364 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:16:10pm

re: #363 CuriousLurker

What does that have to do with a report about the Islamophobia network in America?

Because in the process it makes it sound like there is nothing wrong to be concerned about in the first place. I am not accusing you of being anything other than a good person. I am saying that the report presents a binary picture of Sharia that is incorrect.

It is not a matter of hate all things about Sharia and hate Muslims as slimebags like Pam Gellar would argue. It is also not a matter of "there is nothing wrong at all to look at" either. The article paints legitimate concerns about the way Sharia is practised by many people as bigoted and part of that network in an unfair way.

365 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:17:32pm

re: #360 LudwigVanQuixote

It is a report that also wishes to make it sound like there is absolutely nothing to consider unpleasant as well

That's not true, and I have no idea why you're asserting that it is.

To write in such a way that it is somehow bizarre or wrong to think anything other than all Sharia is a sweet thing at all times is incorrect.

But that's not what they say.

I do not dispute that. However, in many cases there are many Muslims who do not define it that way and it is not correct to pretend that anyone pointing this out is of necessity bigoted or living in fantasy. That is what I object to.

But nobody is pretending that. This argues against the idea that Islam is inherently violent, and as to Sharia as its practiced, they say:

This network mischaracterizes Sharia as a totalitarian ideology of hate and triumphalism committed to replacing the U.S. Constitution with a radical Islamist Caliphate that will subordinate and punish all non-Muslim adherents. This description is unrecognizable to the overwhelming majority of Muslims here and abroad.

Which is absolutely true. Even in the extent to which radical Islam is a threat, the bogus 'scholars' of it like Spencer et al. misidentify how it is so. Bin Laden had no desire to subjugate the US. Only the most idiotic, wild-eyed nutjobs of the Islamic world think like that.

366 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:23:03pm

The one true thing you could say about the article is that it does not concern itself almost at all with the way that Sharia law is used in the semi-theocratic Muslim countries as part of the oppression of the populace. I wouldn't think anyone would need a refresher on that, but again, that's completely outside the point of the report. Sharia law is not any threat to the US, because it is not possible, either demographically or legally, for it to gain a toehold here.

If they did go into that detail, they would be pointing out that American Muslims would be seen, largely, as apostates, corrupt, etc. by the fundamentalist Sharia types-- which would rather underscore their point.

367 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:26:22pm

re: #365 Obdicut

That's not true, and I have no idea why you're asserting that it is.
But that's not what they say.

OK consider this statement from the article, Around the world, there are people killing people in the name of Islam, with which most Muslims disagree. Is that really true? Is a religious execution for example something that most Saudis would disagree with? Is violence against Jews something that most Muslims around the world would disagree with? History and current events would indicate otherwise.

But nobody is pretending that. This argues against the idea that Islam is inherently violent, and as to Sharia as its practiced, they say:

OK, lets make some distinctions. The nice Muslim people next door are not inherently violent. A public stoning or beheading most certainly is.

Which is absolutely true. Even in the extent to which radical Islam is a threat, the bogus 'scholars' of it like Spencer et al. misidentify how it is so. Bin Laden had no desire to subjugate the US. Only the most idiotic, wild-eyed nutjobs of the Islamic world think like that.

That is true, but a very narrow point. Most non-wideyed nutjobs, perfectly normal guys on the street, in the Midde East see a system of jurisprudence that is very brutal and harsh to say the least, as perfectly normal. To pretend otherwise and paint a picture of it as being all sunshine and roses is not accurate.

368 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:26:57pm

re: #366 Obdicut

The one true thing you could say about the article is that it does not concern itself almost at all with the way that Sharia law is used in the semi-theocratic Muslim countries as part of the oppression of the populace. I wouldn't think anyone would need a refresher on that, but again, that's completely outside the point of the report. Sharia law is not any threat to the US, because it is not possible, either demographically or legally, for it to gain a toehold here.

If they did go into that detail, they would be pointing out that American Muslims would be seen, largely, as apostates, corrupt, etc. by the fundamentalist Sharia types-- which would rather underscore their point.

And this is the point I was making about making distinctions and pointing out that Sharia is not monolithic.

369 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 26, 2011 4:35:00pm

re: #367 LudwigVanQuixote

OK consider this statement from the article, Around the world, there are people killing people in the name of Islam, with which most Muslims disagree. Is that really true?

According to polls, yes.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria.

The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."

Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.

OK, lets make some distinctions. The nice Muslim people next door are not inherently violent. A public stoning or beheading most certainly is.

No, a public stoning isn't inherently violent, it's actual violence. What I'm talking about is the claim that Spencer and others make that Islam, in itself, is inherently violent, will always tend to inspire violence.

Most non-wideyed nutjobs, perfectly normal guys on the street, in the Midde East see a system of jurisprudence that is very brutal and harsh to say the least, as perfectly normal.

Sure. But that's as much a factor of government as it is religion; that's to me mostly an example of why theocracy is goddamn terrible. And again; the main point the article is making is that there is no unified idea of Sharia.

I'm not sure why you think it's an obligation for these authors to cover that, though. The places where Sharia law is in place of actual civil law are broken because they're theocracies. Theocracy sucks. When Tibet was a theocracy it sucked too, even though it's got one of the more benign religions going on.

I don't feel that the authors are covering anything up. I don't think that people who are worried about sharia have legitimate concerns, precisely because it is demonstrably true that sharia can be completely 'liberal' and in tune with separation of church and state. That it can also be otherwise, and also is otherwise, doesn't detract from that point at all.

At the absolute most, the problem you have with this entire piece is that it's overlooking radical sharia abroad, which, again, is really not the main thrust of it.

370 Mickey Blumental  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 12:01:36am

Pffft. Nonsense. I have irrevocable proof that Obama is a Muslim:

HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!! What sort of non-Muslim will ever have that as a middle name?!

Now that I have settled this once and for all, can we please move on?

371 William of Orange  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 7:49:44am

I know it's a valuable piece of research but I think it's wasted energy unless the mainstream media picks it up en masse. The poisoned fruits of these so called "experts" have taken root in the minds of a lot of Americans who will not accept a different view, even though that's the correct one.


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