The Astounding Cynicism of Mitt Romney: Who Cares What Fact Checkers Say?

The art of the Big Lie
Politics • Views: 37,946

The Mitt Romney campaign openly admits that they’re lying like a rug, and they just don’t care: Fact Checking for Thee, but Not for Me.

Get this: The Romney campaign’s position is now that the Obama camp should pull its ads when fact checkers call them out as false — but that Romney and his advisers should feel no such constraint.

This is not an exaggeration. This is really the Romney campaign’s position.

As Buzzfeed reports this morning, top Romney advisers say their most effective ads are the ones attacking Obama over welfare, and that they will not allow their widespread denunciation by fact checkers as false slow down their campaign one little bit:

“Our most effective ad is our welfare ad,” a top television advertising strategist for Romney, Ashley O’Connor, said at a forum Tuesday hosted by ABCNews and Yahoo! News. “It’s new information.”…

The Washington Post’s “Fact Checker” awarded Romney’s ad “four Pinocchios,” a measure Romney pollster Neil Newhouse dismissed.

“Fact checkers come to this with their own sets of thoughts and beliefs, and we’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers,” he said.

Clearly, Romney’s deliberate dishonesty mirrors the right wing base, who simply don’t care whether anything is true any more as long as it paints President Obama as an America-hating “other” who’s secretly plotting to destroy the country. This really is the post-truth campaign.

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145 comments
1 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:40:33am

Want to second-guess fact-checkers? Good. I do it all the time. But you can't simultaneously call on Obama to heed them while you dodge them.

It's so transparent.

2 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:40:39am

Mitt Romney on August 9th:

“You know, in the past, when people pointed out that something was inaccurate, why, campaigns pulled the ad,” Romney said on the radio. “They were embarrassed. Today, they just blast ahead. You know, the various fact checkers look at some of these charges in the Obama ads and they say that they’re wrong, and inaccurate, and yet he just keeps on running them.”

3 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:40:45am

Any party that puts David Barton on their platform committee obviously has no use for fact checkers.

4 nines09  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:42:09am

"We will never allow our program to be limited to truth or facts backed by science or math or video or actual spoken words by either Mitt or Paul. Or reality either."

5 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:42:37am

re: #4 Cleo O'Sod McEire

"We will never allow our program to be limited to truth or facts backed by science or math or video or actual spoken words by either Mitt or Paul. Or reality either."

and we reserve the right to change them retroactively

6 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:42:45am

The Romney campaign's trying to run things by the old rulebook, where they could lie their asses off in order to put Democrats on the defensive, then play the "victims" when Democrats called them on their own bullshit.

7 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:44:06am

re: #6 Targetpractice

The Romney campaign's trying to run things by the old rulebook, where they could lie their asses off in order to put Democrats on the defensive, then play the "victims" when Democrats called them on their own bullshit.

Except they're not even claiming victimhood half the time. They're just sitting there with shit-eating grins on their faces.

Yep, we're lying through our teeth. What're ya gonna do about it?

8 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:44:18am

Facts don't matter in an election --it's emotions . . .unfortunately.

Romney is depending on the loyal minions -- I don't know well that's going to work for him.

9 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:44:33am

re: #3 Kragar

Any party that puts David Barton on their platform committee obviously has no use for fact checkers.

Also, Tony Perkins.

10 bratwurst  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:44:41am

Politifact's number one fan here is going to hit the roof when he gets wind of this:

National Review advises readers not to pay attention to PolitiFact during GOP convention speeches

11 nines09  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:45:26am

re: #5 Expand Your Ground

and we reserve the right to change them retroactively

Badges? We don knee no stinkin' badges.

12 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:45:32am

re: #7 erik_t

Except they're not even claiming victimhood half the time. They're just sitting there with shit-eating grins on their faces.

Yep, we're lying through our teeth. What're ya gonna do about it?

They really think that they have Obama that much over a barrel, that they can basically declare "So what if it's false? It's working!" and nobody will call them on it.

13 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:45:40am

With apologies to Charles P. Pierce for cribbing from his marvelous book Idiot America...

The three Great Premises of Idiot America:

* Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units.
* Anything can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
* Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.

14 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:45:43am

re: #9 Lidane

I don't think Tony was actually on the committee.

15 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:48:00am
16 Petero1818  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:48:25am

New GOP COnvention theme:

Facts don't lie...people do

17 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:48:26am

re: #14 Kragar

I don't think Tony was actually on the committee.

Yes he was.

18 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:48:39am

re: #12 Targetpractice

They really think that they have Obama that much over a barrel, that they can basically declare "So what if it's false? It's working!" and nobody will call them on it.

I'm not completely certain they're wrong. So long as we're discussing this with bullshit weasel-words like 'misleading' or 'mistruth', it'll keep working for him.

He's a fucking low-life dirtbag liar who lies all the fucking time. Lie lie lie lie.

19 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:48:51am

Newt Gingrich, who has railed against media outlets, is pimping seminars at the RNC paid for by the owners of WaPo via it's Kaplan Education subsidiary.

At this week’s Republican National Convention in Tampa, Mr. Gingrich is debuting “Newt University,” a series of academic-style classes he’s conducting at a Hyatt hotel near the RNC festivities. Newt University is being “presented by the Republican National Committee,” which has paid KAPx, a division of the educational company Kaplan to run the courses. As noted on the Newt University website, Kaplan is “the largest subsidiary of The Washington Post Company” and is wholly owned by the media company.

Newt University features lectures on such topics as “‘We Believe In America’ – We Don’t Believe in Obamacare” and “‘We Built it’ – Small Businesses and Civil Society Build America.” Along with Mr. Gingrich, the lectures feature several prestigious guest speakers including; Utah Governor Gary Herbert, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, Utah Senator Mike Lee and Mr. Gingrich’s wife, Callista.

Among other media outlets, Mr. Gingrich’s lecture series has been written up by the Washington Post newspaper and Slate, which is managed by The Slate Group, an “online publishing unit from The Washington Post Co.” The Washington Post story about Newt University included a disclosure that “Kaplan is part of The Washington Post Co.,” the Slate story did not include any disclosure.

20 darthstar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:49:01am
21 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:49:22am

re: #20 darthstar

Big tent anyone?

Well, it is a circus.

22 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:49:53am

re: #21 lawhawk

Big tent anyone?

Well, it is a circus.

With elephants.

23 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:51:39am

re: #17 Lidane

Well, that explains a lot. I stand corrected.

24 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:52:05am

The Purpose of Rhetoric is to Persuade.

Carnival Barkers and Snake Oil Salesmen . . .

25 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:52:15am
26 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:53:21am

bbl

27 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:56:19am

re: #22 Gus

With elephants.

Just watch where you step. It's going to get messy.

28 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:56:25am

lol

29 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:56:28am

"Tony Perkins, a delegate from Louisiana and head of the Family Research Council, said exceptions for rape and incest don't belong in the Republican platform because it's a document that outlines broad government principles, not specifics."

The specifics will be so called "exemptions" that are worded so strictly that no woman will be able to take advantage of them. They will allow Mitt to appear "moderate" on abortion but the results will be Todd Akin all over again.

30 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:56:34am

France opens enquiry into claims of Arafat poisoning

French prosecutors have opened a murder enquiry into Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's 2004 death near Paris following claims he may have died of polonium poisoning, sources told AFP Tuesday.

The probe comes after Arafat's family launched legal action in France last month following reports the veteran Palestinian leader may have died from radioactive polonium.

31 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:58:54am

re: #29 Expand Your Ground

"Tony Perkins, a delegate from Louisiana and head of the Family Research Council, said exceptions for rape and incest don't belong in the Republican platform because it's a document that outlines broad government principles, not specifics."

'We want to reduce the number of abortions' is a principle. A ban isn't a principle. A ban is a policy.

While we're on the subject of definitions, Perkins is an evil idiot.

32 abolitionist  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:58:59am

(Repost, slightly OT) From JJ Abrams new TV series, Revolution - Character Profile: Miles Matheson on Hulu:

(0:00) It's all gonna turn off. And it's never ever going to turn back on. What's going to turn off? ... Everything.

(2:30) It is sort of back to what I would call Original Americana. At its core, it's a show about humanity in the face of diversity.

I'm thinking someone *might* have intended adversity there, but I'm Not Sure.

33 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 10:59:29am

re: #30 Kragar

France opens enquiry into claims of Arafat poisoning

What will happen in Gaza if they come to the conclusion he died of AIDS?

34 CarleeCork  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:00:20am

re: #15 Gus

You've got to watch this: #CNN Airs The Most Ridiculous Statement I've Ever Seen On TV

Does anyone else remember Kerry being run down for speaking French? Where are they now?

35 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:00:52am
36 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:01:20am

re: #10 bratwurst

Politifact's number one fan here is going to hit the roof when he gets wind of this:

National Review advises readers not to pay attention to PolitiFact during GOP convention speeches

Of course dishonest partisan liars hate the fact checkers. Fact check has outrageously decided to fact check both conventions
Spin Detectors: Help Us Monitor the Conventions

Political conventions are like shopping malls of political spin — one-stop bazaars brimming with suspect claims from politicians. And we want you to do a little window-shopping for us this year.

Spin Detectors is asking readers to help us monitor both political parties in Tampa and Charlotte.

Robert Farley, FactCheck.org’s deputy managing editor, is on the scene in Tampa. And Managing Editor Lori Robertson will be covering the Democratic convention in person in Charlotte

37 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:01:37am

Platform Could Be Messaging Minefield For GOP

The document, which party officials craft every four years at their convention, is usually a minor sideshow compared to the big speeches.

“Any of you ever read the party platform?” House Speaker John Boehner joked to reporters on Monday in Tampa when asked about certain provisions.

But this year’s platform, versions of which have leaked to the press, features a plethora of politically perilous planks touching on social issues that the Romney campaign hopes to downplay in favor of the economy.

A new Pew poll released Monday shows that over half of voters are interested in learning about the GOP platform during the convention, a higher percentage than those who expressed interest in the week’s main event: Mitt Romney’s acceptance speech.

History has taught us that the GOP loves to use the economy to distract us from their draconian social agenda.

38 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:01:50am

re: #30 Kragar

France opens enquiry into claims of Arafat poisoning

I remember this topic coming up weeks or months ago here on a thread. How can there be any reliable "chain of evidence" tracing back to Arafat and excluding the possiblility of tampering?

If Arafat had been placed in a sealed morgue somewhere outside Palestine, I might pay attention the results of any inquiry/investigation into the body and causes of death.

39 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:02:43am

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

What will happen in Gaza if they come to the conclusion he died of AIDS?

How did the Israelis give him AIDS?
///

40 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:03:09am

re: #35 Mocking Jay

How about personalized like a corporation? /

41 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:03:11am

we don't need no stupid badgers facts

42 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:04:04am

re: #32 abolitionist

(Repost, slightly OT) From JJ Abrams new TV series, Revolution - Character Profile: Miles Matheson on Hulu:

(0:00) It's all gonna turn off. And it's never ever going to turn back on. What's going to turn off? ... Everything.

(2:30) It is sort of back to what I would call Original Americana. At its core, it's a show about humanity in the face of diversity.

I'm thinking someone *might* have intended adversity there, but I'm Not Sure.

No no, if he wants to talk about 'Original Americana', then "humanity in the face of diversity" is appropriate.

The story of the United States is largely a story about society adapting (very slowly and very painfully) to diversity.

43 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:04:30am

re: #15 Gus

You've got to watch this: #CNN Airs The Most Ridiculous Statement I've Ever Seen On TV

Well, Mitt was right there, defending and serving America, wasn't he?

Well, he was spreading Christianity, wasn't he?

Well, sort of a Christian religion, wasn't he?

And it was at times nearly as dangerous as Vietnam, wasn't it? Day old baguettes can really hurt when you get beaned by one thrown at you...

44 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:05:02am

Brewer: Obama is the real race baiter

Brewer chalked up the GOP’s low standing among Latino voters to pandering on the part of President Barack Obama. Appearing on “POLITICO LIVE” at the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Fla., Brewer said Obama has ignored border security in favor of winning more Latino votes.

“He panders to them,” Brewer said. “Look what he’s done: he hasn’t secured the borders.”

Brewer’s case for presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney’s approach to immigration reform was short on specifics.

“I think President [sic] Romney believes in the rule of law, and he knows and understands” Brewer said. “When he becomes president, I think we’re going to be able to solve a lot of these issues.”

She also contended that Democratic charges of racism directed at border hawks within the Republican Party are unfair.

“It’s all the time, that we’re race-baiting; it’s all the time, you know, that we’re bigots,” Brewer, who added that Obama is also guilty of race-baiting on the issue.

45 Petero1818  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:05:14am

re: #39 Kragar

How did the Israelis give him AIDS?
///

According to the GOP it was by placing him on an airplane with a bunch of gay flight attendants who love having sex with monkeys. They served him some food in executive class and boom. The next thing you know he has AIDS...../////

46 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:05:21am

i distinctly remember thinking the same thing about other republican campaigns, but my memory of it is that the democratic campaigns never effectively counteracted the blizzard of utter bullshit

let's hope this time will be different

47 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:06:23am
48 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:07:44am

re: #44 Kragar

Brewer: Obama is the real race baiter

“He panders to them,” Brewer said. “Look what he’s done: he hasn’t secured the borders.”

She has moved the goalposts, though. I mean the border.

Puerto Peñasco, 60 miles south of our border, just had five people and a police officer killed. That is like part of Arizona, and it is spilling over into our state.

49 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:07:55am

re: #38 Expand Your Ground

Considering that the so-called evidence of polonium poisoning came years after his death from items that he supposedly wore/kept and were in a lawyer's office isn't exactly rock-solid. It's rather flimsy, but that wont keep the Palestinian conspiracy theorists from trying to find ways to blame Israel for his death. There are any number of people who wouldn't have minded seeing Arafat killed.

Israel had no problem minimizing Arafat's role - keeping him at his office in Ramallah to let him live out his days. After all, if Israel were implicated in his death, it would mean another potential intifada and more violence.

And the conspiracy minded would point to polonium as the ultimate assassin's tool since his assassin could kill him without a trace (though that would come down to whether you could still find a trace of polonium after all these years).

50 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:07:56am

re: #37 Kragar

Platform Could Be Messaging Minefield For GOP

History has taught us that the GOP loves to use the economy to distract us from their draconian social agenda.

Voters are paying attention to the platform this year because they got sold a bill of goods 2 years ago and the GOP never delivered. They were promised that a Republican Congressional majority would be about "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs," only for them to drive the country to the verge of budgetary crisis when they weren't trying to regulate when and how we can engage in sexytime.

51 freetoken  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:08:42am
52 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:08:44am
53 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:10:25am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Of course dishonest partisan liars hate the fact checkers. Fact check has outrageously decided to fact check both conventions
Spin Detectors: Help Us Monitor the Conventions

That is fine. When we have a left leaning magazine offering a blanket "nothing to see here" there will be some balance.

Fact checkers are fine but need to be held accountable. Mitt Romney's campaign is not denying that the welfare ads are misleading, or offering evidence to the contrary...they just dont give a shit.

54 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:10:45am

Thankfully Glenn Kesler (WaPo's factchecker) is back from vacation.

55 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:11:10am
56 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:11:26am
57 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:12:44am

re: #50 Targetpractice

Voters are paying attention to the platform this year because they got sold a bill of goods 2 years ago and the GOP never delivered. They were promised that a Republican Congressional majority would be about "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs," only for them to drive the country to the verge of budgetary crisis when they weren't trying to regulate when and how we can engage in sexytime.

It's pretty amazing how the GOP touts a "massive conservative victory" in 2010, and then spends the next two years whining about "Obama's Economy". I know expecting US citizens to know something about how their government works is silly, but honestly: congress has the keys, folks. The president can make friendly suggestions, but ultimately congress are the ones that make the laws and they don't even need his approval to do so. If the economy merely stabilizing and slowly improving over the course of the first term of the Obama presidency (rather than skyrocketing right back to where it was before the crash) is the fault of people failing to do their jobs, then half of that term is the GOP failing to do their jobs.

But never you mind how our government actually works, just get rid of the big scary black man in the white house.

58 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:13:27am

re: #53 blueraven

That is fine. When we have a left leaning magazine offering a blanket "nothing to see here" there will be some balance.

MSNBC is already working against the factcheckers (at least when they check lefty "facts"). Neither side likes the fact checkers unless they're checking the other side.

59 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:14:02am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

MSNBC is already working against the factcheckers (at least when they check lefty "facts"). Neither side likes the fact checkers unless they're checking the other side.

Link?

60 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:14:06am

re: #56 Lidane

61 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:15:45am

re: #57 GunstarGreen

It was pointed out by one of TPM's editorials awhile back that, no matter who wins in November, economists are expecting things to be back to "normal" before the end of the next presidential term. A Romney victory very likely means a rerun of Bush in '16, namely running on his "success" with the economy and promising even greater returns with a second term.

62 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:17:55am

REPORT: Rick Scott’s Anti-Voter Effort Grinds Democratic Registration To A Halt

The Florida Times-Union reports that over the 13-months period beginning July 1 of the year before elections in 2004 and 2008, the number of registered Democrats in Florida increased by an average of 209,425 voters. Since July 1, 2011 — the HB 1355 went into effect — that number was just 11,365:

Groups said the new rules made it impossible to comply. As a result, many got out of the registration game until a federal judge ruled in their favor at the end of May, 11 months later.

“It has without a doubt hurt registration numbers,” said Deirdre Macnab, president of the nonpartisan League of Women Voters of Florida. “It really gummed up the works and made it harder for Floridians to get registered.”

Macnab notes that the rule may have disproportionately hurt Democratic registration as groups often target areas that lean Democratic — “college campuses, senior centers and low-income communities.”

Combined with the Scott administration’s failed attempts attempts to reduce the number of hours for early voting and to purge citizens from the voter rolls, a clear pattern emerges.

63 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:18:14am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

I like the factcheckers at all times, I just don't put blind faith in them. On many occasions, they've showed that they're not impartial, but serving their own agenda-- such as when Politifact claimed that the Democrats saying the Republicans want to end Medicare was the 'lie of the year'. Medicare would be changed beyond all recognition by the Republican program. It was perhaps technically true that the GOP would have continued Medicare, but saying they would end it wasn't any sort of lie, and definitely not the lie of the year.

I don't get why anyone automatically puts their faith in someone (most of them just members of the media) who deem themselves to be factcheckers. Nor do I understand how overlooking the errors and biases of the factcheckers themselves is a good thing.

64 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:18:38am

I'm still amazed about that CNN segment.

65 S'latch  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:02am

I wonder whether Mitt Romney or Barack Obama would win in a game of checkers.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:03am

re: #63 Obdicut

I like the factcheckers at all times, I just don't put blind faith in them. On many occasions, they've showed that they're not impartial, but serving their own agenda-- such as when Politifact claimed that the Democrats saying the Republicans want to end Medicare was the 'lie of the year'. Medicare would be changed beyond all recognition by the Republican program. It was perhaps technically true that the GOP would have continued Medicare, but saying they would end it wasn't any sort of lie, and definitely not the lie of the year.

I don't get why anyone automatically puts their faith in someone (most of them just members of the media) who deem themselves to be factcheckers. Nor do I understand how overlooking the errors and biases of the factcheckers themselves is a good thing.

Who is fact checking the factcheckers?

67 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:07am
68 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:23am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

MSNBC is already working against the factcheckers (at least when they check lefty "facts"). Neither side likes the fact checkers unless they're checking the other side.

Well, we sure know how aggressive Romney is about wanting Obama checked, but not caring about what they say about his own campaign.

To avoid MBF, I'm sure you can provide evidence of such astounding duplicity from the Obama campaign, right...?

69 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:29am
70 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:54am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Who is fact checking the factcheckers?

Well, me, for one.

71 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:19:58am

re: #69 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Damn you! I was just going to post that.

72 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:20:06am

re: #69 Kragar

Donald Trump should stop gay-recruiting the husbands of ugly women.

/

73 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:20:27am

re: #65 S'latch

That would be Nix-oned.

74 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:20:35am

re: #63 Obdicut

We still want someone to relieve us of our duty as citizens to inform ourselves and think critically. Fact checkers are seen as some sort of "miracle diet pill" that can allow us to consume unlimited amounts of garbage information and still find out the "truth" without any effort.

75 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:20:49am

re: #64 Gus

I'm still amazed about that CNN segment.

Well, yeah. It's not like there was anything else going on.

Why do you hate rich Republicans that could afford to dodge the draft?

76 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:21:43am

re: #75 Lidane

He had a destiny to achieve. You couldn't expect him to risk it all in a jungle on the other side of the world.
/

77 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:21:47am
78 S'latch  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:22:08am

re: #73 lawhawk

No doubt. Nixon was a master at playing checkers.

79 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:23:34am

What A Gay Blogger Learned Undercover At A NOM Anti-Gay Student Conference

ITAF’s overt conflation of Christianity with intense homophobia left me dumbfounded. When I decided to attend the conference, I expected to be exposed to a good deal of pseudoscience about gay parents and same-sex relationships. For the most part, NOM has been open about its willingness to misinform people about LGBT families in order to slow the advance of marriage equality.

But what I saw at the conference – selling a book that labels gay people as pedophiles worthy of death, distributing Bible quotes to college students similarly calling for gays to be killed, hosting entire speeches devoted to condemning gays and lesbians as deviant sinners – represented a brand of anti-gay extremism that I assumed even NOM would have shied away from.

And unfortunately, it wasn’t over.

80 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:24:43am

re: #79 Kragar

What A Gay Blogger Learned Undercover At A NOM Anti-Gay Student Conference

Your link is 404.

But it sounds crazier than some of the craziest of crazed campus preachers. Even they didn't call for gays to be killed, IIRC.

81 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:24:52am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Who is fact checking the factcheckers?

We are

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

82 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:25:25am
83 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:26:04am

Welcome to Russia! Advert to encourage tourists showcases Moscow's cathedrals, river... and nuclear warheads

At first glance an advert designed to entice tourists to visit Russia's capital depicts a harmonious scene of cathedrals, green riverbanks and boat trips.

But on closer inspection it become clear that vehicles travelling down a road are in fact a convoy of military trucks which are carrying intercontinental ballistic missiles including nuclear warheads.

The poster is designed to advertise Russian airline Aeroflot's twice-daily flights from Brussels to Moscow.

84 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:27:21am

re: #80 erik_t

Fixed the link, may have to reload the page

85 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:28:17am

re: #39 Kragar

How did the Israelis give him AIDS?
///

I shouldn't be laughing but it's true.

86 JeffM70  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:28:31am

re: #69 Kragar

What a terrible and shameless human being, a perfect example of the baseness humans can reach.

87 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:28:58am

Conspiracies never end. They just evolve.

88 JeffM70  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:30:01am

re: #87 Gus

They're the herpes of the mind.

89 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:31:22am

re: #87 Gus

Conspiracies never end. They just evolve.

Didn't some Romania spy mention Arafat's relationship with one of his bodyguards in a book back in the 80's?

90 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:31:36am

oh god some blonde twit is comparing this election to the founding fathers revolting against England...

91 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:31:49am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Who is fact checking the factcheckers?

as citizens of a democracy, we have the responsibility to fact check everything

the fact checking organizations merely help collect the evidence, if you haven't already found out for yourself

92 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:32:20am

True. He's just been running the country for the last four years.

93 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:33:13am

re: #81 blueraven

We are

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Who is factchecking us?

94 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:33:17am

re: #92 Lidane

[Embedded content]

True. He's just been running the country for the last four years.

The thought of Romney running a garage sale's about as believable as him ever even attending one without a gaggle of reporters and cameras following his every move.

95 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:33:24am

Ok looks like I won't have a live to listen to this week, nothing but listening to the RNC convention speakers repeat debunked lie after debunked lie.

96 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:34:19am

re: #92 Lidane

[Embedded content]

True. He's just been running the country for the last four years.

Garage sale is teh business experience meme! Let's see. Community organizer, lawyer, father, law professor, senator, President of the United States of America, Osama bin Laden slayer.

97 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:35:25am

Yee-haw! Let's bring back literacy tests while we're at it!!1!

98 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:35:28am

re: #94 Targetpractice

The thought of Romney running a garage sale's about as believable as him ever even attending one without a gaggle of reporters and cameras following his every move.

Come now. Romney has bought and sold a great many garages.

99 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:36:08am

re: #96 Gus

You forgot State Representative between law professor and US Senator.

100 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:36:12am

Welp. Looks like a certain WOM person is obsessed.

101 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:36:22am

re: #96 Gus

Garage sale is teh business experience meme! Let's see. Community organizer, lawyer, father, law professor, senator, President of the United States of America, Osama bin Laden slayer.

Ryan: Member of the House of Representatives, < crickets >

102 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:38:29am

re: #59 blueraven

Link?

Rachel Maddow To Fact-Checking Site PolitiFact: ‘You Are Fired’

You are a mess! You are fired! You are undermining the definition of the word “fact” in the English language by pretending to it in your name. The English language wants its word back. You are an embarrassment. You sully the reputation of anyone who cites you as an authority on “factishness,” let alone fact. You are fired.

She's had a couple tirades against fact checkers. Not surprisingly only over checking lefty facts.

103 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:38:46am

re: #100 Gus

Welp. Looks like a certain WOM person Troll is obsessed.

104 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:38:55am

Reince Priebus: Obama "hasn't even run a garage sale"

never ran a business:

richard nixon
ronald reagan
bush senior
etc etc etc

105 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:39:13am

re: #96 Gus

Garage sale is teh business experience meme! Let's see. Community organizer, lawyer, father, law professor, senator, President of the United States of America, Osama bin Laden slayer.

What's hilarious is that by their standards, Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford, Nixon (who was a practicing lawyer, which apparently doesn't count), and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't have had any business experience before becoming POTUS either.

106 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:39:31am

re: #103 blueraven

Yeah. And I have to stop feeling sorry for people. I get that way sometimes.

107 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:39:52am

re: #82 Lidane

[Embedded content]

From Akin's website:

Perry Akin, campaign manager, released the following statement:

"Reince Priebus' comments are extremely dissappointing. He claims the mantle of freedom, liberty and the good of America, but this betrays his apparent personal vendetta against Todd Akin. He is putting party power and political games ahead of the good of the country."

Spelchek stil borked.

108 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:40:21am

re: #90 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

oh god some blonde twit is comparing this election to the founding fathers revolting against England...

The RNC has got the revolting part down pat.

109 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:40:21am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Rachel Maddow To Fact-Checking Site PolitiFact: ‘You Are Fired’

She's had a couple tirades against fact checkers. Not surprisingly only over checking lefty facts.

You mean she doesn't have any problems with questionable facts against the right? I'm shocked!

110 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:40:27am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Rachel Maddow To Fact-Checking Site PolitiFact: ‘You Are Fired’

She's had a couple tirades against fact checkers. Not surprisingly only over checking lefty facts.

KT...Maddow is one person.
The article at National Review was from The Editors

fail.

111 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:40:39am

re: #107 wrenchwench

From Akin's website:

Spelchek stil borked.

Your're an elitist.

112 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:41:34am

Take a break for a second...mermaids!

6 Photos Of Mermaids At The Republican National Convention

Undeterred by the hurricane, the Florida Aquarium hosted one of the first of its RNC parties last night — complete with swimming mermaids.

113 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:41:47am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Rachel Maddow To Fact-Checking Site PolitiFact: ‘You Are Fired’

She's had a couple tirades against fact checkers. Not surprisingly only over checking lefty facts.

Which doesn't detract at all from the actual errors in the 'fact-checkers' she's pointed out.

What's funniest to me is that all of the fact-checkers other than Factcheck are just mainstream media sources rebranding themselves, and yet some people fall for this idea that they're really trying to be impartial, that that is their core agenda.

114 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:41:49am

re: #110 blueraven

KT...Maddow is one person.
The article at National Review was from The Editors

fail.

It's always different when it's a lefty. I know the rules.

115 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:04am

re: #108 Kragar

The RNC has got the revolting part down pat.

"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"

"You said it! They stink on ice!"

116 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:15am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

It's always different when it's a lefty. I know the rules.

So does your presidential candidate.

117 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:17am

re: #44 Kragar

Brewer: Obama is the real race baiter

Says the governor who brought us things like SB 1070 (aka "Papers Please") and the removal of ethnic studies from Arizona classrooms because only subjects exemplifying "Greco-Roman civiliation" are allowed.
Not to mention genuine white nationalists like Joe Arpaio, Russell Pearce, and their murderous neo-Nazi pals Shawna Forde and J.T. Ready.

118 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:25am

Ummm. Everyone gets mad at those fact checkers from time to time. Maddow is not the only one.

119 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:33am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

It's always different when it's a lefty. I know the rules.

It's called 'moving the goal posts'.

120 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:48am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

It's called 'moving the goal posts'.

What goal post was moved, exactly?

121 Kragar  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:42:48am

re: #117 RadicalModerate

MEANINGLESS DETAILS!

122 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:12am

I've watched Obama supporters boo Factcheck one day and then the next day cheer Factcheck. Romney supporters do the same thing.

123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:18am

re: #105 Lidane

What's hilarious is that by their standards, Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford, Nixon (who was a practicing lawyer, which apparently doesn't count), and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't have had any business experience before becoming POTUS either.

Teddy did go out West and run a ranch for a few years after his first wife died. I would file that under business experience since it was a bit more than sitting on the porch while hirelings did all the work.

124 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:32am

re: #122 Gus

I've watched Obama supporters boo Factcheck on day and then the next day cheer Factcheck. Romney supporters do the same thing.

But I've only seen one campaign do so.

125 blueraven  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:33am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

It's always different when it's a lefty. I know the rules.

So no difference between one voice and an editorial board?
Some rules you got there.

126 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:38am

re: #122 Gus

I tend to cheer them when they get something right, and boo them when they get it wrong.

Call me ca-razy.

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:45am

re: #120 Obdicut

What goal post was moved, exactly?

What do you mean by "goal post"? Please define.

128 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:43:57am

re: #124 erik_t

But I've only seen one campaign do so.

Who's that?

129 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:44:41am

re: #124 erik_t

But I've only seen one campaign do so.

Oh! Right. LOL I'm derpy again today.

130 erik_t  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:44:43am

re: #128 Gus

Who's that?

The answer, obviously, is RONPAUL!

131 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:44:55am

re: #120 Obdicut

What goal post was moved, exactly?

i predict that no actual details will be forthcoming

132 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:45:10am

So to recap...

The Astounding Cynicism of Mitt Romney...

Who Cares What Fact Checkers Say?

133 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:45:22am

re: #122 Gus

I've watched Obama supporters boo Factcheck one day and then the next day cheer Factcheck. Romney supporters do the same thing.

That's a fact. No fact checking need with your quote.

134 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:45:34am

Now NRO wants to ignore fact checkers.

135 Gus  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:45:57am

re: #133 NJDhockeyfan

That's a fact. No fact checking need with your quote.

Fact checking wars!

136 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:45:57am

re: #117 RadicalModerate

Says the governor who brought us things like SB 1070 (aka "Papers Please") and the removal of ethnic studies from Arizona classrooms because only subjects exemplifying "Greco-Roman civiliation" are allowed.
Not to mention genuine white nationalists like Joe Arpaio, Russell Pearce, and their murderous neo-Nazi pals Shawna Forde and J.T. Ready.

Hmm, but I'd say Spanish is closer to Greek and Latin than English is. Oh wait, we're in that odd world of "the words mean what I mean them to say and not what normal logic would mean them to say", aren't we?

137 Lidane  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:46:08am

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Teddy did go out West and run a ranch for a few years after his first wife died. I would file that under business experience since it was a bit more than sitting on the porch while hirelings did all the work.

And Nixon had his own law firm. But by the standards set by Mittens and the rest of the GOP, being a lawyer doesn't count as business experience. That's the point.

Just the fact that they're trying to say Obama hasn't run anything when he's been running the country for the last four years says a lot about the GOP, and none of it good.

138 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:46:09am

re: #127 Killgore Trout

What do you mean by "goal post"? Please define.

Well, yeah, that's kind of my point. "Moving the goal posts" means changing the terms of an argument after your opponent either proves his contention or disproves your own. I'm asking NJD what goalpost was moved-- what he feels he proved or disproved, only to have it rejected and the terms changed.

Does that help you to understand?

139 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:46:27am

re: #134 Gus

Now NRO wants to ignore fact checkers.

Of course that only applies to fact checking Republicans. Those are the rules.

140 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:46:52am

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Teddy did go out West and run a ranch for a few years after his first wife died. I would file that under business experience since it was a bit more than sitting on the porch while hirelings did all the work.

that must have been one of those experiences that led him to denounce "malefactors of great wealth" and inaugurate the trust busting era later on in life...

141 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:47:31am

re: #136 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm, but I'd say Spanish is closer to Greek and Latin than English is. Oh wait, we're in that odd world of "the words mean what I mean them to say and not what normal logic would mean them to say", aren't we?

spanish is descended directly from latin; english is not

142 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:49:02am

re: #117 RadicalModerate

Says the governor who brought us things like SB 1070 (aka "Papers Please") and the removal of ethnic studies from Arizona classrooms because only subjects exemplifying "Greco-Roman civiliation" are allowed.
Not to mention genuine white nationalists like Joe Arpaio, Russell Pearce, and their murderous neo-Nazi pals Shawna Forde and J.T. Ready.

To be perfectly accurate, only Mexican American Studies was removed. They still have African American Studies. In a state that used to be part of Mexico.

Doesn't make it any better. In fact, it makes it worse.

143 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:49:43am

re: #140 engineer cat

that must have been one of those experiences that led him to denounce "malefactors of great wealth" and inaugurate the trust busting era later on in life...

Teddy was a complex one. Those who simply write him off as a jingoistic imperialist of the times are missing a great deal. In fact, I would say that one factor to look for in finding a great president is how much of a reader they are. (Applying this on the basis of Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Truman among others.)

144 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 11:51:29am

re: #143 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

As president, the US didn't go to war. Important for those to remember who think he was a warmonger.

145 JDRhoades  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 1:50:52pm

They know that the vast majority of Americans literally do not know the difference between a fact and an opinion. Prove a wingnut wrong on something, show them that it is objectively not true, and what you’ll get back is a pissy statement that “I’m entitled to my opinion.”


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