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1 danarchy  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:23:03pm

Anyone else ever get this thing where the videos on the front page are all shifted by an article. For example, on my front page right now the video for this article is actually a climate change denier from a couple articles below, and that article shows the video of Obama saying Israel has the right to defend itself etc.

Just wondering if it is me or some weird thing the page does. I've seen it happen a few times.

2 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:34:48pm

Hahahahahahahahahaha. That is all.

3 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:51:33pm

WTF!

Huffpost changed their format to include an auto-play video on every page, and you have to scroll down a couple of screens to find the freakin video and shut it off.

GAH.

Turns the speakers off.

4 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:52:45pm

Judge sent Twinkies back to arbitration.

[Link: xfinity.comcast.net...]

5 Kaessa  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:53:17pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

WTF!

Huffpost changed their format to include an auto-play video on every page, and you have to scroll down a couple of screens to find the freakin video and shut it off.

Well that's a good excuse to never go to Huffpo again. I hate (HATE) auto-play video.

6 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:03:33pm

Isn't this an amazing thing to see? The GOP now completely pandering to the Latino Community. It's unseemly and insulting. The party of the grownups has turned into that crazy ex-girlfriend that won't go away

Note to our Latino brothers and sisters.. Make sure you get it in writing. They think they can just talk shit and everything will be ok.

7 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:06:12pm

Oh boy... The Onion Goes Anti-Semitic

Warning, links to Breitbart.

8 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:07:20pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

WTF!

Huffpost changed their format to include an auto-play video on every page, and you have to scroll down a couple of screens to find the freakin video and shut it off.

GAH.

Turns the speakers off.

I was just about to mention them. Their coverage of Gaza is just about the worst out there.
5 Lies the Media Keeps Repeating About Gaza


Ten Things You Need to Know About Gaza

9 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:07:25pm

re: #6 BenghaziHoops

Jeez.. Two edits in the first 4 words of my post...
I guess I'm ready for MNF.

10 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:08:52pm

Same "author" on the Marco Rubio derpishness:

Gentleman’s Quarterly (GQ) has published a recent interview they did with rock star and Giant-Threat-To-The-Left Republican Marco Rubio. You just knew they would try to sabotage him with a question somewhere along the way, and the one they picked was this:

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?

Rubio, as a man of faith, gave a perfect answer:

I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

Exactly right. It is none of Rubio's business, and there are competing beliefs on the matter. This was GQ's attempt to fringe out Rubio immediately, or to make him insult more fundamentalist members of his base. He didn't fall for it.

To make matters worse for the left, most Hispanics attend some form of church, whether it be Catholic or Evangelical, and Rubio’s answer wouldn’t displease them. This makes the left nuts, especially since they have no grounds to insult him for being one of those "kooks" based on this answer. Rubio, so far, is too smart for the mainstream press. Which makes them fighting mad.

11 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:12:43pm

re: #7 Gus

Oh boy... The Onion Goes Anti-Semitic

Warning, links to Breitbart.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a link to an older Onion story (like a few years old by now). The whole thing is clearly satire. Breitbart is really stretching.

12 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:14:06pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

If I'm not mistaken, that's a link to an older Onion story (like a few years old by now). The whole thing is clearly satire. Breitbart is really stretching.

It's a new one. I can see people not liking it but it's certainly not anti-Semitic.

13 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:18:36pm

I need a non-pukey, healthy pale green color for a map I am trying to make.

14 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:20:37pm

I thought this article might have a little more info on the phone calls. Not really but there are some interesting quotes from Gazans.
Phone Call Tells Gazans to Get Out; Missiles Hit Minutes Later

"Look, I mean, everyone has the right to defend himself. They are saying that they're defending their selves. Of what? Of rockets. They have no missiles in them. It's an empty rocket. It's just a kind of tube kind of going and doing nothing. But it's our way of defense. We have nothing," Matar said.

"I have only one kid, a little girl, and I want her to live in peace. I want her to live in Palestine. We have the right to defense ourselves. No one wants war, no one...But what kind of peace we need, that is the question," he said.

A Palestinian man at a Gaza hospital today was more blunt as dead bodies were brought out for funerals. The bodies included some of the nine members of the Daloo family who died Sunday when the Israeli missile destroyed the building in which they had been.

When asked whether he thought the toll on civilians, particularly children, was too high and Hamas and its allies should stop firing rockets at Israel, he replied that the victims included a woman in her 70s and a 4-year-old child.

"All the Israeli media said that there are fighters inside the house, but we are from the family. We're denying totally that there is a fighter inside the house that was bombarded," he said.

"And we ask all the groups to retaliate for these massacres and we believe now we shouldn't talk about ceasefire at all," he said.

It's really hard to understand the logic of firing empty missiles but the public seem to like the idea.

15 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:21:08pm

re: #13 ProGunLiberal

RGB or CYMK?

16 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:22:34pm

re: #15 Daniel Ballard

RGB.

Trying to make maps of Sandy-related things.

17 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:23:01pm

re: #13 ProGunLiberal

I need a non-pukey, healthy pale green color for a map I am trying to make.

Image: 71_seagreen.jpg

18 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:23:44pm

re: #17 Gus

That looks like aquamarine. Pretty.

19 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:24:22pm

re: #18 PhillyPretzel

That looks like aquamarine. Pretty.

Image: pantone_colours09.jpg

20 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:24:49pm

re: #17 Gus

RGB of that?

21 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:24:54pm

re: #7 Gus

Oh boy... The Onion Goes Anti-Semitic

Warning, links to Breitbart.

That's the same Breitbart clown responsible for: Your Bigoted Fear-Mongering All-Caps Breitbart.com Headline of the Day.

22 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:25:08pm

re: #16 ProGunLiberal
This might do
R 196
G 227
B 155

Image: Untitled-1.jpg

23 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:26:29pm
24 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:26:39pm

re: #20 ProGunLiberal

RGB of that?

118
209
174

25 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:27:32pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Previously at the Onion: Crazed Palestinian Gunman Angered by Stereotypes

The Onion will make fun out of anything.

26 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:28:41pm

re: #24 Gus

Thank You!

The Sandy-Fucked-Over-Zone will be coral red.

27 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:33:10pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

It is unlikely an empty rocket tube killed that family of three.

Further, who is to say what payloads those rockets might carry down the road.

28 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:35:24pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

More Onion:

Hamas Calls For 'Giant Summit' With All Israelis

Haniyeh characterized the one-day summit as "the final solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute," and invited every Jewish citizen of the world to attend. Haniyeh said he expects more than 5 million participants from Israel alone.

"It was foolish of us to think that a satisfactory resolution could be reached through small-scale aggression," Haniyeh said. "It will take more than the sporadic deaths of small groups of Israeli civilians to achieve our ends."

"This summit is long overdue," he added.

29 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:37:15pm

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

Since 2007, however, LGF has imploded, following the apparent mental breakdown of its operator, Charles Johnson, who went psycho on Pamela Geller, embraced global warming, began attacking climate-change “denialists,” declared war on the Tea Party and presided over months of frenzied purges during which he and his henchmen banned thousands of the site’s former commenters, eventually banning even some of the LGF henchmen who had led the original wave of purges.

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then the most horrible of all... I embraced global warming! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

30 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:38:16pm

re: #7 Gus

What a bunch of morons.

31 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:38:35pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then I embraced climate change! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

I don't buy it. No evil villain worth his salt would get rid of that many henchmen.

32 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:40:14pm

I have henchmen?

33 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:40:46pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

Henchpeople.

34 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:40:58pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

And henchwomen!

35 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:40:59pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

36 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:41:28pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then I embraced climate change! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

They really love that Pallywood stuff. They have a sad that some of us have a more complicated view of it. Derps.

38 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:42:14pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

I tempted to do a page featuring a fake profile of Charles as a Super Villian like the right wingers see them.

39 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:42:19pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

People of Hench.

40 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:42:20pm

re: #33 b_Snark

re: #34 Dancing along the light of day

Be more PC, please.

Henchpersons.

41 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:43:08pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Henchman? Henchman? Who the hell uses the term Henchman anymore? He is still living in the 40's.

42 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:43:26pm

re: #39 Kragar

Henchers?

Henchites?

Henchaweenians?

43 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:43:31pm

McCain only writes this stuff for his tiny blog audience -- anyone who's sane would get to the part about me "going psycho on Pamela Geller" and start laughing uncontrollably.

44 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:44:02pm
45 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:44:48pm

re: #27 researchok

It is unlikely an empty rocket tube killed that family of three.

Further, who is to say what payloads those rockets might carry down the road.

True but for the longer range rockets they've been taking out the payload to increase range. It just seemss odd that the Palestinian public is aware of this and thinks it's a good idea. Oh well.
I'm starting to think the Israelis are going to avoid a ground invasion if they can. Although I don't see much military purpose it does kind of piss me off that the Israelis just have to sit and wait for the Palestinians to fire all their rockets. There are no good choices.

46 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:45:13pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then the most horrible of all... I embraced global warming! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

Can I be one of your henchmen? I want the Power To Ban.

47 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:45:53pm

re: #39 Kragar

People of Hench.

HoncoHenchos.

48 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:46:25pm

Let's see, alternate words for henchmen: Guards, Troops, Goons, Thugs, "Associates", Stormtroopers, Officers, "Family" members, Agents, Lackeys.

49 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:46:49pm

re: #42 researchok

Henchers?

Henchites?

Henchaweenians?

Henchwench.

50 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:48:29pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Henchwench.

Hah! You win.

51 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:48:35pm

re: #46 Kronocide

Can I be one of your henchmen? I want the Power To Ban.

I don't know ... how are you at frenzy? We won't stand for any calm, calculated purges around here. We're about out of control frantic purging. Not everybody can work themselves up into the swivel-eyed, slobbering state of frenzy that the job requires.

52 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:49:17pm

What's funny about the Pallywood obsessed?

A. They're currently upset at The Onion, and

B. They watch a lot of Fox News. Fox News vs. Pallywood. Get it?

53 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:49:33pm

re: #48 dragonfire1981

Let's see, alternate words for henchmen: Guards, Troops, Goons, Thugs, "Associates", Stormtroopers, Officers, "Family" members, Agents, Lackeys.

II Guidelines for Legion of Doom troops:
15. If your unit's name contains words like "Imperial", "Elite", "Supreme", "Tactical", "Storm" or "Special", request a transfer as soon as possible. These guys always get clobbered first when the Heroes attack.

54 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:49:56pm

A friend and I went for a hike this morning, and as we were headed into the woods, four guys were headed out, two with dead deer slung over their shoulders. So...

Image: q3DBhhockkqROSTMQ6Tm4g2.jpg

Yeah.

Later, lizards.

55 Henchman 25  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:50:10pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Do 20 points into the Frenzy Skill count toward any of that?

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:51:41pm

re: #34 Dancing along the light of day

And henchwomen!

Henchpersons. Persons of hench.

57 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:52:02pm

We're henchmen now? Does this mean I'm getting a raise in my paycheck?

//

58 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:52:35pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

59 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:52:39pm

Michael Moore makes the rec list at DKos
An Open Letter to President Obama
Brilliant ideas such as going over the fiscal cliff, ending all the wars and freeing Bradley Manning.

60 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:53:07pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

We're henchmen now? Does this mean I'm getting a raise in my paycheck?

//

You get a paycheck?

61 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:53:53pm

re: #60 Henchman 26

You get a paycheck?

Well, not a "paycheck" per say, but when I joined up, I was promised a monthly check from the International Zionist Conspiracy. Which, yet again, is LATE!

//

62 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:54:02pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Henchwench.

I want to be one too!

63 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:54:57pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

We're henchmen now? Does this mean I'm getting a raise in my paycheck?

//

Only if you're both expendable and invulnerable. Heh.

64 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:55:47pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

I don't know ... how are you at frenzy? We won't stand for any calm, calculated purges around here. We're about out of control frantic purging. Not everybody can work themselves up into the swivel-eyed, slobbering state of frenzy that the job requires.

I'm pretty twitchy and highly impulsive. But I can learn the slobbering.

65 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:56:35pm

Speaking of Pallywood.

Ha ha!

66 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:56:40pm

HENCHMEN! PREPARE YOURSELVES!

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:57:06pm

re: #63 Lidane

Only if you're both expendable and invulnerable. Heh.

"Ah, if there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe whatever you say."

68 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:58:00pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then the most horrible of all... I embraced global warming! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

Lizard Thermidor.

69 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:58:03pm

One of my superpowers includes a dead on accurate impersonation of Henchmen 24.

70 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:59:48pm

re: #63 Lidane

Only if you're both expendable and invulnerable. Heh.

71 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:00:38pm

re: #69 Kragar

One of my superpowers includes a dead on accurate impersonation of Henchmen 24.

You play dead?

72 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:01:30pm

re: #71 Henchman 26

You play dead?

I'm a spirit guide!

73 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:02:15pm

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

74 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:02:31pm

re: #72 Kragar

I'm a spirit guide!

I'm a spirit bare.

75 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:03:08pm

The fact that several of us went for Venture Bros. clips of the Monarch and his henchmen says a lot.

I just haven't figured out exactly what it says. Haha.

76 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:03:45pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

Good reason not to have a 'root' account.

77 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:04:28pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

They look anything like this?

78 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:06:54pm

re: #75 Lidane

The fact that several of us went for Venture Bros. clips of the Monarch and his henchmen says a lot.

I just haven't figured out exactly what it says. Haha.

Could be worse, it could be FiM clips.

79 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:07:42pm

re: #76 Henchman 26

Good reason not to have a 'root' account.

Buddy of mine once told me he had his network completely secure before going on deployment.

20 minutes later I had him completely shutdown just using web mail access and default names for service accounts.

80 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:08:52pm

re: #75 Lidane

The fact that several of us went for Venture Bros. clips of the Monarch and his henchmen says a lot.

I just haven't figured out exactly what it says. Haha.

The Fluttering Horde

81 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:08:53pm

re: #41 A Man for all Seasons

Henchman? Henchman? Who the hell uses the term Henchman anymore? He is still living in the 40's.

We are all honcos.

82 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:09:14pm

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

We are all honcos.

And the cookies are great.

83 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:09:14pm

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

We are all honcos.

Henchos?

84 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:09:19pm

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

We are all honcos.

And minions.

85 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:10:19pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

Could be worse, it could be FiM clips.

I actually started watching that when I was looking for a job. It's ridiculous and cheesy but I thought it was cute. And if I was the target age all over again, I'd be pestering my mom for all the toys I could handle. Haha.

86 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:12:44pm

Guess I'll need to change my Status on FB to Henchman

87 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:12:48pm
88 simoom  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:12:55pm

The office of the Director of National Intelligence responds to, and debunks, the latest iteration of the endlessly shifting Benghazi conspiracy theories, that the White House edited the declassified talking points, removing references to al Qaeda for the sake of political expediency:

[Link: security.blogs.cnn.com...]

The intelligence community - not the White House, State Department or Justice Department - was responsible for the substantive changes made to the talking points distributed for government officials who spoke publicly about the attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, the spokesman for the director of national intelligence said Monday.

The unclassified talking points on Libya, developed several days after the the deadly attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, were not substantively changed by any agency outside of the intelligence community, according to the spokesman, Shawn Turner.

Republican criticism of the talking points intensified last Friday following a closed door hearing with former CIA Director David Petraeus.

Rep. Peter King, R-New York, told reporters after the hearing that the original talking parts drafted by the CIA had been changed and it was unclear who was responsible.

"The original talking points were much more specific about al Qaeda involvement and yet final ones just said indications of extremists," King said.

...

The unclassified talking points were first developed by the CIA at the request of the House Intelligence Committee, whose members wanted to know what they could say publicly about the Benghazi attack.

The initial version included information linking individuals involved in the attack to al Qaeda, according to a senior U.S. official familiar with the drafting of the talking points But when the document was sent to the rest of the intelligence community for review, there was a decision to change "al Qaeda" to "extremists." The official said the change was made for legitimate intelligence and legal reasons, not for political purposes.

"First, the information about individuals linked to al Qaeda was derived from classified sources," the official said. "Second, when links were so tenuous - as they still are - it makes sense to be cautious before pointing fingers so you don't set off a chain of circular and self-reinforcing assumptions. Third, it is important to be careful not to prejudice a criminal investigation in its early stages."

Some Republican members of Congress suggested the change came from within the Obama administration - from the White House, the Justice Department, or another government agency.

Turner, the spokesman for National Intelligence Director James Clapper, said that was not the case.

"The intelligence community made substantive, analytical changes before the talking points were sent to government agency partners for their feedback," Turner said, referring to the White House, Justice Department, State Department, Pentagon and FBI. "There were no substantive changes made to the talking points after they left the intelligence community," he said.

The White House on Friday said it made only one change, substituting the word "mission" for "consulate."

The FBI requested a change in language which originally stated the U.S. "knew" Islamic extremists participated in the attack. According to a U.S. intelligence official the wording was changed to "there are indications" Islamic extremists participated.

89 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:13:10pm

re: #85 Lidane

I actually started watching that when I was looking for a job. It's ridiculous and cheesy but I thought it was cute. And if I was the target age all over again, I'd be pestering my mom for all the toys I could handle. Haha.

I'll admit I watched the series, haven't seen the most recent episodes. And I say that because it reminds me of a lot of the cartoons I watched during the 90s, that it's not simple and childish, and there's enough references to stuff that adults would know to get the jokes.

90 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:13:26pm

OK, I have to stop grepping through these logs now, I'm gonna have nightmares.

91 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:13:59pm

re: #84 Vicious Babushka

And minions.

Minions!

92 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:14:48pm

re: #88 simoom

The office of the Director of National Intelligence responds to, and debunks, the latest iteration of the endlessly shifting Benghazi conspiracy theories, that the White House edited the declassified talking points, removing references to al Qaeda for the sake of political expediency:

[Link: security.blogs.cnn.com...]

The wingnut talking point now seems to be that, since the White House "knew" it was a terrorist attack as it was occurring, that being "honest" on Day One would have headed off accusations of "lies."

93 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:16:10pm

re: #85 Lidane

I'm not the target age, but I buy all the toys I want. That's one advantage of being an adult.

Fun fact ~ I helped the Columbia Record club to change their rules and only allow folks 18 and over to commit to those buying contracts. They tried to make me finish my buying obligation and I wrote them back that I had just learned in my Business Law class that being 17, they could not hold me to the contract!

94 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:16:36pm

re: #91 Lidane

Minions!

[Embedded content]

Zombie guards! Seize him!

95 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:17:02pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

OK, I have to stop grepping through these logs now, I'm gonna have nightmares.

Change to awk.

96 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:18:58pm

re: #93 prairiefire

I'm not the target age, but I buy all the toys I want. That's one advantage of being an adult.

Fun fact ~ I helped the Columbia Record club to change their rules and only allow folks 18 and over to commit to those buying contracts. They tried to make me finish my buying obligation and I wrote them back that I had just learned in my Business Law class that being 17, they could not hold me to the contract!

omg Columbia record club!!!

I think I scammed them like everyone else.

97 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:19:04pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

OK, I have to stop grepping through these logs now, I'm gonna have nightmares.

I had my ssh server exposed to the world for a while when I was hosting a website temporarily. I watched, live, one night as someone tried a fairly comprehensive dictionary attack on my machine. It was fascinating in a morbid sense.

98 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:21:08pm
99 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:23:54pm
100 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:25:17pm

re: #93 prairiefire

I'd buy all the toys, but I'm waiting until I move into a new place first. Heh.

101 BongCrodny  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:27:10pm

Only 'cuz no one else appears to have thought of it:

Henchlizards.

102 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:27:28pm

re: #97 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I had my ssh server exposed to the world for a while when I was hosting a website temporarily. I watched, live, one night as someone tried a fairly comprehensive dictionary attack on my machine. It was fascinating in a morbid sense.

My server would be easy to crack. There is nothing in there anyone would want tho.

103 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:28:00pm

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

*head desk*

That's how these folks "think"

104 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:29:00pm

re: #102 Henchman 26

My server would be easy to crack. There is nothing in there anyone would want tho.

I didn't particularly care if they made their way in. I was more just fascinated by being able to watch live. I backtracked them to a .ro hostname, but of course, who knows if that's actually where they were. At the time, though, I didn't know about the layers of indirection hackers could go through.

105 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:29:23pm

re: #103 Vicious Babushka

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

*head desk*

That's how these folks "think"

I bet he thinks that drug testing for welfare is a smart, fiscally sound idea that will save the states money, too.

106 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:30:10pm

The first map I am making will be ready tomorrow, with the color you chose.

I have also purchased 4/9ths of the Computer I am building.

107 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:30:23pm

re: #105 Lidane

I bet he thinks that drug testing for welfare is a smart, fiscally sound idea that will save the states money, too.

Totally.

108 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:32:12pm

re: #103 Vicious Babushka

I've noticed that even the most educated conservatives tend to be stuck in Magical Economics Land.

Of course, it has been heart-breaking to see a once sweet friend become a smug, elitist-minded Libertarian. She was a much kinder person when she was a Social Conservative. :'(

109 freetoken  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:32:27pm
110 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:32:32pm

re: #103 Vicious Babushka

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

*head desk*

That's how these folks "think"

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

111 freetoken  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:34:40pm

re: #110 Targetpractice

Hey, there are people out there I've come across that fear that Obama was going to take Social Security away.

Yes, really.

Goes to show how well propaganda works.

112 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:34:43pm

re: #107 Vicious Babushka

Totally.

*sigh*

Ever since Rick Perry announced he wants to mandate drug tests for welfare and unemployment here in Texas my Republican FB friends keep posting about how great that is, because they work for their money so no one should get to live high on the hog on welfare for free.

They always conveniently skip the part where Perry would mandate those same drug tests for unemployment benefits too. Just wait until one of them gets laid off and has to be tested before they get the money they're entitled to. I'm sure they'll turn around and rant about bureaucrats and invasive government.

113 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:35:06pm

re: #110 Targetpractice

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

Yeah, my dad said as much in his unhinged rant that I referred to from their weekend visit here to the wild north country. It's clear that they have an irrational hatred of anything government.

114 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:35:25pm

re: #110 Targetpractice

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

The "argument" (such as it is) goes that yeah, Walmart workers get SOME welfare and food stamps but if they didn't work at Walmart they would get EVEN MORE WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS so "Walmart is saving taxpayers money."

Oh G-D my brain hurts.

115 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:37:20pm

re: #112 Lidane

*sigh*

Ever since Rick Perry announced he wants to mandate drug tests for welfare and unemployment here in Texas my Republican FB friends keep posting about how great that is, because they work for their money so no one should get to live high on the hog on welfare for free.

They always conveniently skip the part where Perry would mandate those same drug tests for unemployment benefits too. Just wait until one of them gets laid off and has to be tested before they get the money they're entitled to. I'm sure they'll turn around and rant about bureaucrats and invasive government.

Every place that I worked from about 1987 to 2002 had a mandatory drug test as a condition for employment. Then I think somebody filed a lawsuit and suddenly these drug tests were ruled unconstitutional.

116 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:38:26pm

i'm contemplating changing my nym to 'bankrupt twinkies'

what do you think?

117 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:38:52pm

re: #114 Vicious Babushka

The "argument" (such as it is) goes that yeah, Walmart workers get SOME welfare and food stamps but if they didn't work at Walmart they would get EVEN MORE WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS so "Walmart is saving taxpayers money."

Oh G-D my brain hurts.

"So what if he needs a little help! At least he has a job!"

That really is an indictment of our nation, that we've come to believe that no matter how shitty the job is, how poor the pay, or how much our boss treats us like a slave, "at least we have a job."

118 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:39:43pm

re: #115 Vicious Babushka

Every place that I worked from about 1987 to 2002 had a mandatory drug test as a condition for employment. Then I think somebody filed a lawsuit and suddenly these drug tests were ruled unconstitutional.

Oh, that's another one I hear a lot. "I have to take a drug test to get a job, so these lazy welfare jerks should get a drug test before they get their money!"

*sigh*

119 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:41:19pm

re: #118 Lidane

Oh, that's another one I hear a lot. "I have to take a drug test to get a job, so these lazy welfare jerks should get a drug test before they get their money!"

*sigh*

Elderly people (who are the most likely to be on government assistance) usually take a whole shitload of prescription meds.

120 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:42:15pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

"So what if he needs a little help! At least he has a job!"

That really is an indictment of our nation, that we've come to believe that no matter how shitty the job is, how poor the pay, or how much our boss treats us like a slave, "at least we have a job."

Oh and, "well if they're working at Walmart they must be too stupid to get a job anywhere else."

Heard that one too.

121 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:43:49pm

It's official-- Ben & Jerry's are crafty bastards. They've created the single greatest thing I've ever tasted:

[Link: www.benjerry.com...]

Oh my god. I'm going to have to force myself to stop eating this or the whole pint will disappear.

122 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:43:54pm

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Oh and, "well if they're working at Walmart they must be too stupid to get a job anywhere else."

Heard that one too.

I don't know if it's just a Midwest thing or what, but I hear that going around a lot among my circles of friends.

123 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:46:02pm

I've got to get my jingle on and get listing on Ebay. Those credit card bills aren't going to pay themselves.

124 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:47:26pm

re: #109 freetoken

Tragedy by design?

Indianapolis house explosion becomes homicide investigation

Let me say hmmm. Lots more to come later. I'm skeptical of gas. Hell of a big bang.

125 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:48:06pm

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Oh and, "well if they're working at Walmart they must be too stupid to get a job anywhere else."

Heard that one too.

Yep, if you're working retail or food service, then you're "too stupid" to get a better job.

126 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:49:04pm

re: #27 researchok

It is unlikely an empty rocket tube killed that family of three.

Further, who is to say what payloads those rockets might carry down the road.

The BM-21 is capable of carrying cluster rounds and even Field Artillery SCAtterable Mines (FASCAM). Hamas does not use FASCAM rounds, though, perhaps in part because such rounds are detested within Europe. Using them would cause papers like the Guardian to be less friendly to Hamas.

A large rocket like the Fajhr-5 can carry Sarin or VX nerve gas payloads. But unless Hamas was going for broke and about collapse, I can't see them using chemical weapons. If they did, they'd lose all sympathy in the West at once and Israel would do what ever it took thereafter to destroy Hamas.

127 freetoken  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:49:09pm

Academia, the reality:

Maryland students react to move to Big Ten

[...]

And this move isn’t just about athletics, Maryland President Wallace D. Loh said at a press conference on Monday afternoon, flanked by a group of coaches and staff members. Loh said the new conference will bring the university more money — and more academic perks.

[...]

Back in my day the Big Ten was defined geographically (as these conferences were by nature), a reasonably idea given the amount of travel incurred by teams.

Now, Minnesota teams will have to travel a thousand miles to Maryland, or Maryland teams likewise in reverse.

Academia is not about efficiency -its about big business and building edifices so that regents and board members can point to buildings with their names on them.

128 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:51:22pm

re: #127 freetoken

The South East conference is kicking MU's but. Those southern boys are born brawling and they are making our farm boys look like weak kneed wonkers.

129 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:51:53pm

Anonymous Hackers Ramp Up Israeli Web Attacks And Data Breaches As Gaza Conflict Rages

“We dislike Israel, we dislike Jews even more,” read the statement posted with the last of that list of data spills, which consisted of mostly government officials’ email addresses. “So, all you fucked up baby-killing government officials can get spammed back to the 90′s when your router got fried.”

130 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:52:44pm
131 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:53:10pm

re: #127 freetoken

Academia is not about efficiency -its about big business and building edifices so that regents and board members can point to buildings with their names on them.

In behalf of my father who just retired after more than forty years teaching , and my mother who is still going strong at Rhode Island College: Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

Academia is also about that quaint old deal of teaching students.

132 freetoken  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:53:28pm

We'll all miss Ron Paul, won't we?


Ron Paul: Secession is 'deeply American principle'

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, said today that secession was a “deeply American principle,” amid a growing number of people petitioning the White House to let their states secede from the U.S.

[...]

133 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:54:07pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

*facepalm*

As outrageous as it might seem it's just 4chan children. They're angry and stupid.

134 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:54:22pm

re: #132 freetoken

We'll all miss Ron Paul, won't we?

Ron Paul: Secession is 'deeply American principle'

Tell us how that little secession thing worked out again.

135 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:54:34pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

Great and appropriate Thomas Mann quote on the splash page before the article for me:

War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace.

136 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:54:45pm

re: #132 freetoken

We'll all miss Ron Paul, won't we?

Ron Paul: Secession is 'deeply American principle'

Fuck him and his ignorant, economically illiterate Neo-Confederate ass.

I won't miss him at all. =P

137 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:55:07pm

re: #132 freetoken

What an a-hole.

138 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:56:45pm

re: #132 freetoken

I ignored Ron Paul's big farewell message. Good riddance. The quicker these right wing dinosaurs go away, the better.

139 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:57:50pm

re: #132 freetoken

We'll all miss Ron Paul, won't we?

Ron Paul: Secession is 'deeply American principle'

A principle that got its ass kicked almost 150 years ago.

140 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:00:11pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

As outrageous as it might seem it's just 4chan children. They're angry and stupid.

I'm more concerned about the Glenn Greenwald's, MJ Rosenbergs and Andrew Sullivan's of the world. They're smarter, and although marginal these days, will become more mainstream with the next Republican president.

141 freetoken  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:01:28pm

re: #130 Obdicut

Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

Academia is also about that quaint old deal of teaching students.

Yes, quaint and old fashioned. As tenure becomes a thing of the past and more and more instruction is done by non-tenured contracted instructors the idea of the "academe" of old will pass into history.

Ok, so I'm a doomer, but I see government reducing expenditures on education (in constant dollars - inflation will eat away at the face value) when push comes to shove against medicare and social security.

It's already happened here in California. I know the local community colleges have slashed the number of classes being offered, and removed classes from their catalogs that aren't required for degrees (art classes tend to get hit hard in this case.)

But somehow the regents/college districts always seem to find money to borrow to build new buildings. And then let the classrooms remain empty because they don't have the budget to hire a (non-tenured) instructor to teach a class.

142 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:03:11pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

I'm more concerned about the Glenn Greenwald's, MJ Rosenbergs and Andrew Sullivan's of the world. They're smarter, and although marginal these days, will become more mainstream with the next Republican president.

Why do you include Andrew Sullivan with the other two?

143 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:03:37pm

My sister pointed out the other day that it seems more and more features and books are being made about Lincoln lately. And I had to point out to her that, starting last year, we're in the middle of what is essentially a very long 150th anniversary of the American Civil War.

144 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:04:00pm

re: #141 freetoken

What do you get out of being such a doomer? Serious question.

145 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:04:50pm

Bought Turkey legs today. I had to request them at the butcher's counter but 6 large turkey legs cost me under a buck each. I don't think I could eat one in a single sitting. I may add them to my regular rotation.

146 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:05:35pm

re: #144 Obdicut

I see his point, but I also see demographics. The Republicans will continue to create major issues for the next 10-15 years, but then we get to getting America a new time in the light.

147 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:06:47pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I find they have too many tendons the kids won't eat, which negates the fun of hooting like a cave man and waving them around.

148 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:06:51pm

re: #142 prairiefire

Why do you include Andrew Sullivan with the other two?

He's along the same lines, more or less. I could throw in Max Blumenthal and Michael Moore. They're aren't all necessarily on the same cardinal points of the compass but equally off the rails of reality.

149 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:08:55pm

re: #147 prairiefire

I find they have too many tendons the kids won't eat, which negates the fun of hooting like a cave man and waving them around.

I'm going to brine them and slow cook them on the grill. Might soften up the sinew. I can't recall the last time I ate a turkey leg, probably not since I was a kid.

150 Bubblehead II  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:10:42pm

re: #109 freetoken

Tragedy by design?

I don't think so. I suspect that they had a problem with their gas fired furnace. Boyfriend tried to fix it and failed. Sadly it took the lives of their next door neighbors.

"The couple lived next door to the house where investigators are focusing. The co-owner of that house, John Shirley, told The Associated Press he had recently received a text message from his daughter saying the furnace in the home, which she shares with her mother and her mother’s boyfriend, had gone out.

Shirley’s ex-wife, Monserrate Shirley, said her boyfriend, Mark Leonard, had replaced the thermostat recently and the furnace had resumed working."

This is why you call the pros.

The investigation will be for negligence, not malice fore thought.

151 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:11:43pm
152 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:13:26pm

re: #123 prairiefire

Mail me if you want help or advice!

153 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:14:53pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

It was that dweeb MJay's freakout that convinced me to vote for Obama. It just proved that Obama is totally not the "Israel hater" the wingnuts say he is.

154 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:16:13pm

re: #147 prairiefire

I find they have too many tendons the kids won't eat, which negates the fun of hooting like a cave man and waving them around.

But, chucking the bones over your shoulder is still fun!
*grunts*
Cavegirl style!

155 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:16:32pm

re: #152 Dancing along the light of day

Thanks! I will add that I don't actually buy all the toys I want, as today's credit card companies are not as easy to scam as yesterday's Columbia Record Club.

156 simoom  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:17:03pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

157 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:19:08pm

re: #153 Vicious Babushka

It was that dweeb MJay's freakout that convinced me to vote for Obama. It just proved that Obama is totally not the "Israel hater" the wingnuts say he is.

He is one nutty dude. I used to get pissed and upset by people like him but now I just think they're curiosities. Sometimes you can figure out how they ended up that way, sometimes not. It's still fun to try.

158 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:19:34pm

re: #121 Lidane

It's official-- Ben & Jerry's are crafty bastards. They've created the single greatest thing I've ever tasted:

[Link: www.benjerry.com...]

Oh my god. I'm going to have to force myself to stop eating this or the whole pint will disappear.

Give in to the dark side. Eat the whole thing.

(...I usually do, in one sitting. I've got a problem like that.)

/Coffee Heath Bar Crunch is my all-around favorite of theirs

159 simoom  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:20:59pm

Flashback to 2008, the McLaughlin Groove:

160 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:22:06pm

re: #156 simoom

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

Yeah, as nutty as MJ is, he's not really wrong on that tweet. If Mitt had won we'd be seeing a lot of progressive stuff about the aggression in Gaza is because Mitt is Israel's servant, etc. Although a lot of progressive sites aren't happy but the reaction is subdued because Obama is still president. So it goes.

161 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:25:11pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

Well, I've Tweeted a few things about Obama WRT to Gaza. Frankly, I'm not impressed. There's not much nuance in either his or State's response to this. It's basically a boiler plate response and nothing approaching progressive. The standard response of course would be that Obama's not a progressive. I voted for him. Now that he's won I think more progressives should speak out. After all, he was the one that said to hold his feet to the fire. Oh, on more thing. Obama "climate change policy" is rather weak if he even has any real policy at all. Sorry, but now that he's won I'm not going to be a "yes man" to him anymore.

162 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:28:10pm

Another being his attitude about marijuana which is frankly rather antiquated.

163 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:35:57pm

re: #156 simoom

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

The Barack Obama of 2004 might well have spoken out against Operation: Pillar of Justice, but the Obama of 2012 has learned many things about security policy and he's come to understand that sometimes violence is the only answer to enemy bent on aggression.

164 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:39:56pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

Yeah, as nutty as MJ is, he's not really wrong on that tweet. If Mitt had won we'd be seeing a lot of progressive stuff about the aggression in Gaza is because Mitt is Israel's servant, etc. Although a lot of progressive sites aren't happy but the reaction is subdued because Obama is still president. So it goes.

Note: Obama would still be president.

165 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:45:37pm

re: #161 Gus

Well, I've Tweeted a few things about Obama WRT to Gaza. Frankly, I'm not impressed. There's not much nuance in either his or State's response to this. It's basically a boiler plate response and nothing approaching progressive. The standard response of course would be that Obama's not a progressive. I voted for him. Now that he's won I think more progressives should speak out. After all, he was the one that said to hold his feet to the fire. Oh, on more thing. Obama "climate change policy" is rather weak if he even has any real policy at all. Sorry, but now that he's won I'm not going to be a "yes man" to him anymore.

I'll basically agree with you on that but my perspective is a bit different. You're asking the right question but from the wrong angle. It's not about "why isn't Obama more progressive" but "why can't Obama be more progressive.'' It's about understanding how the world works intead of asking why it doesn't work the way we want it to. Foriegn policy and energy policy are excellent examples, there's a reason why so little changes. I'm not sure what those reasons might be but I am sure those reasons aren't found on Fox, MSNBC, Daily caller or Think Progress.

166 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:49:18pm

re: #162 Gus

Another being his attitude about marijuana which is frankly rather antiquated.

Another good example. That's about IRS/federal income tax. Obama might want to decriminalize weed but until there's federal legislation, all these state laws "legalizing" it don't mean shit.

167 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:53:07pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

I'll basically agree with you on that but my perspective is a bit different. You're asking the right question but from the wrong angle. It's not about "why isn't Obama more progressive" but "why can't Obama be more progressive.'' It's about understanding how the world works intead of asking why it doesn't work the way we want it to. Foriegn policy and energy policy are excellent examples, there's a reason why so little changes. I'm not sure what those reasons might be but I am sure those reasons aren't found on Fox, MSNBC, Daily caller or Think Progress.

Bold leadership. Heh.

168 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:53:53pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

This is WAY tasty...
[Link: www.gelsons.com...]
I think you would like it!

169 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:54:58pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

Another good example. That's about IRS/federal income tax. Obama might want to decriminalize weed but until there's federal legislation, all these state laws "legalizing" it don't mean shit.

You start by making statement and not like the one's he's made which sounded like something from Richard Nixon. He won't talk about decriminalizing weed because he doesn't want to decriminalize weed. Otherwise he'd make an effort to talk with that antique Harry Reed in the Senate and that other antique, Nancy Pelosi in the House to think about putting together some bill to revise the Controlled Substances Act of 1970.

170 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:57:50pm

re: #167 Gus

Bold leadership. Heh.

We've done 'bold'. It got us Baghdad. Let's try "calm".

171 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:58:39pm

re: #170 Decatur Deb

We've done 'bold'. It got us Baghdad. Let's try "calm".

172 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:00:24pm

re: #167 Gus

Bold leadership. Heh.

America has temporarily lost its appetite for boldness in foreign policy as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom. It may return in time, but for the present the length of US involvement in Iraq and the difficulties and casualties incurred have deadened America's desire to be bold. This is augmented by the isolationism that severe recessions naturally generate.

No, the United States of America will not be exercising bold leadership on the international states in the near term nor likely in the mid-term. We're tired, frustrated, and broke.

173 dragonath  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:00:53pm

re: #170 Decatur Deb

"I guess trying to capture Baghdad was better than Baghdad itself"

-Murad IV, Ottoman Sultan

174 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:01:33pm

re: #173 dragonath

You can thank the Mongols for that.

175 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:03:43pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

America has temporarily lost its appetite for boldness in foreign policy as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom. It may return in time, but for the present the length of US involvement in Iraq and the difficulties and casualties incurred have deadened America's desire to be bold. This is augmented by the isolationism that severe recessions naturally generate.

No, the United States of America will not be exercising bold leadership on the international states in the near term nor likely in the mid-term. We're tired, frustrated, and broke.

Commie. //

176 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:08:29pm

Obey!

177 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:09:34pm

re: #170 Decatur Deb

We've done 'bold'. It got us Baghdad. Let's try "calm".

Just read a quote from Obama's speech in Burma. Sounds almost exactly like his campaign stump speeches.

178 allegro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:10:40pm

re: #131 Obdicut

In behalf of my father who just retired after more than forty years teaching , and my mother who is still going strong at Rhode Island College: Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

Academia is also about that quaint old deal of teaching students.

Upding for the charming naivete.

179 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:11:02pm

re: #177 Gus

Just read a quote from Obama's speech in Burma. Sounds almost exactly like his campaign stump speeches.

Do you mean he didn't shake his etch-a-sketch?

180 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:11:43pm

re: #179 Decatur Deb

Do you mean he didn't shake his etch-a-sketch?

181 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:12:55pm

In winter I become more like my cats; Bedtime is the most fantastic thing to happen to anybody ever. I count down the minutes in anticipation.

182 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:13:36pm

Buck has a sad.

183 efuseakay  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:13:44pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I thought this article might have a little more info on the phone calls. Not really but there are some interesting quotes from Gazans.
Phone Call Tells Gazans to Get Out; Missiles Hit Minutes Later

It's really hard to understand the logic of firing empty missiles but the public seem to like the idea.

Empty missiles cost next to nothing... having the Iron Dome shoot them down costs Israel tons of $$$. I doubt that's the way Hamas is thinking, but it could end up having an effect in the long run.

184 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:13:58pm

Thrift Shop - Macklemore & Ryan Lewis
Seriously, watch this.

185 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:14:05pm

re: #180 Gus

[Embedded content]

"To choose our leaders" is pretty radical in Rangoon and Freeperville.

186 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:15:08pm

re: #185 Decatur Deb

"To choose our leaders" is pretty radical in Rangoon and Freeperville.

Yeah. I should see it as them hearing those words rather than from my own cynical, cranky mind.

187 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:15:30pm

soon we will celebrate the uniquely american festival of thanksgiving, when we bitch about how we do all the work while other people enjoy the soft life living offa our taxes and my brother in law is an idiot why does he have to spend the holidays here

188 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:16:51pm

re: #183 efuseakay

Empty missiles cost next to nothing... having the Iron Dome shoot them down costs Israel tons of $$$. I doubt that's the way Hamas is thinking, but it could end up having an effect in the long run.

At some point the different production rates of junk fireworks and Rafael's capacity comes into play.

189 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:17:24pm

re: #184 Four More Tears

Thrift Shop - Macklemore & Ryan Lewis
Seriously, watch this.

[Embedded content]

Man, that song is so me.

190 JAFO  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:19:31pm

re: #183 efuseakay

Empty missiles cost next to nothing... having the Iron Dome shoot them down costs Israel tons of $$$. I doubt that's the way Hamas is thinking, but it could end up having an effect in the long run.

Or the empty missiles are used to swarm the system while the armed missiles launched just a tad later come on a lower and more direct track.

191 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:20:48pm
192 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:21:45pm

re: #191 Four More Tears

Golf Clap for AC.

193 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:22:26pm

re: #192 ProGunLiberal

Golf Clap for AC.

Why? Having Anderson Cooper on the ground in Gaza is big.

194 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:22:49pm

re: #193 Gus

Why? Having Anderson Cooper on the ground in Gaza is big.

This is not an endorsement of Hamas. //

195 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:23:19pm

broke

we've always been "broke", and we've always been horrifyingly more in debt than we've ever been, and i'm tired of hearing how this broke is a special, extra scary, end of the world broke

horse hockey

196 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:23:37pm

re: #193 Gus

No, I mean for the burn.

197 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:24:15pm

re: #196 ProGunLiberal

No, I mean for the burn.

Ah, OK. Yeah, saw that earlier. Didn't think much of it.

198 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:25:14pm

hamo
hamas
hamat

hamamus
hamatis
hamant

199 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:25:57pm

re: #198 engineer cat

hamo
hamas
hamat

hamamus
hamatis
hamant

Hamas, Christmas. Coincidence?

200 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:28:43pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

America has temporarily lost its appetite for boldness in foreign policy as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom.

I didn't know that being bold required going to war.

201 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:30:54pm

re: #200 Achilles Tang

I didn't know that being bold required going to war.

It doesn't, but you get only so far with the strongly-worded letter.

202 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:30:55pm

re: #200 Achilles Tang

I didn't know that being bold required going to war.

My point about being "bold" had nothing to do with war.

203 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:32:18pm

re: #202 Gus

My point about being "bold" had nothing to do with war.

I didn't reply to you.

204 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:32:43pm

re: #203 Achilles Tang

I didn't reply to you.

I replied to you.

205 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:33:21pm

re: #204 Gus

I replied to you.

I didn't reply to anything you said.

206 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:33:45pm

re: #205 Achilles Tang

I didn't reply to anything you said.

Who's on first?

207 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:34:33pm

re: #206 Gus

Who's on first?

Forget it. Goodnight.

208 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:35:08pm

LOL

209 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:41:13pm

Why is it that if you leave a glass of diet Coke around that after a few hours it start to smell like a floor cleaner? Not a full taste but it has this tiny aroma of floor cleaner.

210 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:43:58pm

re: #209 Gus

OK, how do you know what floor cleaner smells like?
NO, DO NOT ANSWER THAT!
giggles.

211 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:44:09pm
212 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:44:36pm

re: #210 Dancing along the light of day

OK, how do you know what floor cleaner smells like?
NO, DO NOT ANSWER THAT!
giggles.

A smell is like a taste.

213 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:44:56pm

ignatz sez he will be my henchcat

214 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:47:31pm

re: #209 Gus

Why is it that if you leave a glass of diet Coke around that after a few hours it start to smell like a floor cleaner?

Tempted to make a Venn diagram for chemicals appearing in cleaning and food products, but perhaps somethings are better left unknown ;)

215 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:48:44pm

Test

216 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:48:45pm

Ugh, my old man's gonna drive me to drink. We've put off our travel plans for the last couple days because his back's been killing him. He decided to work overtime most of last week, then after going to the doctor yesterday and getting three scripts for pain killers and steroids as well as a referral for a consult, he lifts a big back of cat food and two heavy bags of cat litter into and out of his car. And yet, after spending the last couple days sleeping on and off due to the meds, he swears he's gonna leave tomorrow morning for a 10 hr car trip.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

217 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:50:07pm

I dedicate this Tweet to Buck.

218 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:00:08pm

re: #217 Gus

I dedicate this Tweet to Buck.

[Embedded content]

Wait. Jon just said it was a quiet night? This can't be by accident.

//

219 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:01:50pm
220 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:02:19pm

re: #200 Achilles Tang

I didn't know that being bold required going to war.

It doesn't, but going to war is often a decison born in part by boldness and sometimes the effects of a war enhance or inhibit boldness, depending on the war's perceived outcome.

221 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:02:22pm

That would explain why earlier I heard loud naval gun fire but no explosions.

222 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:02:40pm

Long range shelling.

223 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:02:58pm

Wait. Now people will think I'm a hawk! Oh noz!

224 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:09:30pm

re: #198 engineer cat

hamo
hamas
hamat

hamamus
hamatis
hamant

hamas
hamatis
hamiti
hamatem
hamate

hamates
hamatum
hamatibus
hamates
hamatibus

225 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:11:31pm

re: #199 Gus

Hamas, Christmas. Coincidence?

Hamas is the holiday when we celebrate the birth of ham?

226 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:12:06pm

We should do "X."

How DARE you suggest we do "X." You have insulted my heritage, my family, my ancestors. MY NATION!

227 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:17:35pm

re: #221 Gus

re: #222 Gus

Thomas Hardy : Channel Firing

That night your great guns, unawares,
Shook all our coffins as we lay,
And broke the chancel window-squares,
We thought it was the Judgment-day

And sat upright. While drearisome
Arose the howl of wakened hounds:
The mouse let fall the altar-crumb,
The worms drew back into the mounds,

The glebe1 cow drooled. Till God called, “No;
It’s gunnery practise out at sea
Just as before you went below;
The world is as it used to be:

“And all nations striving strong to make
Red war yet redder. Mad as hatters
They do no more for Christés sake
Than you who are helpless in such matters.

“That this is not the judgement-hour
For some of them’s a blessed thing,
For if it were they’d have to scour
Hell’s floor for so much threatening. . . .

“Ha, ha. It will be warmer when
I blow the trumpet (if indeed
I ever do; for you are men,
And rest eternal sorely need).”

So down we lay again. “I wonder,
Will the world ever saner be,”
Said one, ‘than when He sent us under
In our indifferent century!”

And many a skeleton shook his head.
“Instead of preaching forty year,”
My neighbour Parson Thirdly said,
“I wish I had stuck to pipes and beer.”

Again the guns disturbed the hour,
Roaring their readiness to avenge,
As far inland as Stourton Tower,
And Camelot, and starlit Stonehenge2.

228 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:19:02pm

Hi everyone. I'm one of those crazy Thanksgiving travelers, waiting @airport for red-eye to SC. 14.00 wine & its a shitshow of people.

229 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:19:09pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

re: #222 Gus

Thomas Hardy : Channel Firing

So all this time when they thought they were hiding it amongst the civilians you find out that because of this, they hid it in the southern part of the strip. Perhaps.

230 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:19:34pm

re: #228 Stanghazi

Hi everyone. I'm one of those crazy Thanksgiving travelers, waiting @airport for red-eye to SC. 14.00 wine & its a shitshow of people.

Give 'em the finger for me.

//

231 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:19:37pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

I have henchmen?

Fess up. You've got a secret lair too.
All evil geniuses have secret lairs.

232 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:21:01pm
233 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:21:12pm

re: #230 Gus

Give 'em the finger for me.

//

Gotta catch a buzz 1st

234 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:22:21pm

Uh oh. I'm in trouble now. :P

235 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:22:21pm

From the Cultural Sensitivity files:

Image: lolwut.jpg

236 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:23:18pm

re: #235 Lidane

From the Cultural Sensitivity files:

Image: lolwut.jpg

Ha!

237 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:24:38pm

re: #235 Lidane

From the Cultural Sensitivity files:

Image: lolwut.jpg

Oh yeah, somebody's ass is gonna be a sling.

238 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:27:44pm

re: #231 RadicalModerate

Fess up. You've got a secret lair too.
All evil geniuses have secret lairs.

Pssst, under the Denver Airport...

239 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:31:15pm

re: #238 Dancing along the light of day

Pssst, under the Denver Airport...

Didn't you get warned what would happen next time you gave away classified information?!

//

240 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:37:26pm

re: #209 Gus

Why is it that if you leave a glass of diet Coke around that after a few hours it start to smell like a floor cleaner? Not a full taste but it has this tiny aroma of floor cleaner.

Quite possibly because both incorporate citrus oils as an aromatic ingredient.

241 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:37:57pm

I just heard Andy Grammer on the Tonight show. Band is effen awesome! I'm going to check out his band.

242 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:42:28pm

I used to be a henchman. Now my plans are more sinister.

"//"

243 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:43:17pm

re: #240 The Questionable Timing of a Flea

Quite possibly because both incorporate citrus oils as an aromatic ingredient.

Probably how they clean their machinery.

244 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:44:37pm

re: #242 Gus

I used to be a henchman. Now my plans are more sinister.

"//"

I only henched to pay my way through college. I'm actually studying to be a veterinarian.

//

245 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:50:42pm

So. What's happening in Argentina?

246 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:51:56pm

re: #229 Gus

So all this time when they thought they were hiding it amongst the civilians you find out that because of this, they hid it in the southern part of the strip. Perhaps.

What, the planetary defense laser at the apex of the Luxor? I've known about that one for years. Perfectly safe to operate, and something the Illuminati let the rest of the world know about because the truly paranoid don't believe something can hide in plain sight like that.

247 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:52:39pm

There was a bombing at a NATO post in Pakistan. One dead and three injured last I saw. Quite likely that over 100 were killed in Syria. Possibly 100s more in parts of Africa.

248 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:53:10pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

What, the planetary defense laser at the apex of the Luxor? I've known about that one for years. Perfectly safe to operate, and something the Illuminati let the rest of the world know about because the truly paranoid don't believe something can hide in plain sight like that.

Nah. It's reverse logic.

249 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:55:02pm

I for one am outraged. How can anyone even suggest a thing. I am almost breathless.

//

250 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:56:14pm

Soon they will be coming for are guns. Because they hate, are freedoms.

//

251 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:58:40pm

Vegas:
Joey and I had answered an ad in the paper for henchmen for hire.
That was the beginning of my career as a Vegas Henchman. There is a lot of money to be made in Vegas. Our gang of henchmen didn't meet Charles till the late 90's. Started out as small time Watergate tricks, you know a steady stream of hookers to their hotel rooms.
rewriting all the RW talking points and faxing them out to party leaders....

252 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:00:01pm

I come from two countries that are far from perfect. We have done many wrongs. From that, I have learned. Some people from other countries should try that instead of thinking that they are perfect in every way.

253 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:06:55pm

re: #252 Gus

I come from two countries that are far from perfect. We have done many wrongs. From that, I have learned. Some people from other countries should try that instead of thinking that they are perfect in every way.

Yeah, well I'm from America, and we don't need to learn nothin' because we're damned near perfect!

254 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:07:40pm

re: #224 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

hamas
hamatis
hamiti
hamatem
hamate

hamates
hamatum
hamatibus
hamates
hamatibus

hamamus hamates!

255 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:08:45pm

Derp.

256 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:08:55pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

If it hadn't been for Juan Peron, Argentina could've been a contender! Inside of a defaulting loser, which it be honest, it is.

/tip of the hat to Elia Kazan and Marlon Brando with that one.

257 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:11:35pm

re: #254 engineer cat

hamamus hamates!

Quis hamabit ipsos hamates?

258 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:16:32pm
259 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:25:36pm

re: #258 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ah, the FBI, when entrapment becomes "foilling terrorist plots."

260 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:27:46pm

re: #259 Targetpractice

Ah, the FBI, when entrapment becomes "foilling terrorist plots."

I'm more left of you. Just watching now and seeing all the LGF right winger sleepers ding.

261 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:28:39pm

LGF is strange in that it has some left wing elements yet retains some seriously right wing elements.

262 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:29:48pm

re: #261 Gus

LGF is strange in that it has some left wing elements yet retains some seriously right wing elements.

[smiles and waves]

263 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:30:47pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

[smiles and waves]

Some of them are actually to the right of you. Others, and a lot, are to the right of Bibi. In fact I would say that Bibi is probably more liberal then some of the remaining LGF right wingers.

264 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:41:23pm

Michael J Rosenberg @MJayRosenberg

If Bush was president, progressives would be screaming about his silence re Gaza. But it's King Obama, the Infallible One.

Rosenberg In Mortal Combat With Reality; Reality Wins

DAILY KOS
Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 08:42 AM PST
Israel commits Mass Murder and Obama Silent again

265 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:44:45pm

re: #264 engineer cat

disclaimer

The Association of Feline Engineers does not approve this message

266 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:46:55pm

I remember correcting The Nation about LGF being left of center. I was wrong. LGF is right of center.

267 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:00:34pm

Tomorrow morning it starts all over again. Some snipping. Then the usual barrage of Middle East news centering around Arabs. Maybe some news about murders in Chicago. Code Pink or Daily Kos said something or another.

268 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:01:53pm

Michael Moore is still big. As is Jimmy Carter.

269 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:03:56pm

re: #266 Gus

I remember correcting The Nation about LGF being left of center. I was wrong. LGF is right of center.

well, it depends on your center. it's certainly to the right of my center

but then again people don't necessarily have one center. or, there isn't just one center, or one spectrum

anyway, what makes you say that?

270 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:09:47pm

re: #269 engineer cat

well, it depends on your center. it's certainly to the right of my center

but then again people don't necessarily have one center. or, there isn't just one center, or one spectrum

anyway, what makes you say that?

Just don't want to deal with it anymore.

271 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:23:14pm

Good Night, all.

272 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:34:50pm

So here's my contribution for the night to LGF musical culture: the Symphony #7, ("Variation Symphony") by Peter Mennin. This is my favorite American symphony and IMHO one of the great symphonies of the 20th century (I'm also partial to another #7, that of Sibelius).

This is the National Orchestra of the ORTF (French Office of Radio and Television) conducted by Jean Martinon.

273 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:35:24pm

Plutonium Reportedly Removed From Post It Box, But Radioactive Glow Remains

many lizards still fear that fingers will drop off if they type comments

274 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:43:29pm

The Fratellis - Henrietta

275 boredtechindenver  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:48:51pm

Yeah, I knew I heard this song before.


edited to add: best listened via headphones turned up loud.

276 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:54:42pm

re: #275 boredtechindenver

Yeah, I knew I heard this song before.

[Embedded content]

I got one better for you:

Black Sabbath - Wizard

Blue Oyster Cult - Cities on Flame with Rock and Roll

277 researchok  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:21:33am

Morning, all

278 researchok  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:47:26am

re: #272 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Great piece

TY

279 researchok  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:51:14am

re: #274 Kragar

re: #275 boredtechindenver

OK, I'm up now.

280 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:56:33am

Variations on a theme:

Red Dwarf - Tongue Tied

Grouplove - Tongue Tied

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 1:43:56am

Who are these people in the bottom comment section? And did Marjoriemoon flounce?
Shesh, I take a couple days off.....
Morning Honcos.

282 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 1:57:50am

Scientology critics allege church tried to influence Pinellas legal community in Lisa McPherson case
Scientology critics allege in recently filed court papers that the church hired local lawyers to schmooze Pinellas judges and gave gifts to a prominent attorney trying to gain influence during the legal saga that followed the 1995 death of Scientologist Lisa McPherson.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
I hate pretty much no one. Except Scientologist and well, that ends the list. And Lisa McPherson?
[Link: www.lisamcpherson.org...]

283 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 1:59:48am

re: #261 Gus

LGF is strange in that it has some left wing elements yet retains some seriously right wing elements.

Left and right don't actually exist.

284 freetoken  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:00:14am

re: #281 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Nothing brings out the knives quite like a religious war.

285 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:01:12am

re: #284 freetoken

Nothing brings out the knives quite like a religious war.

Hence why I've been giving LGF a wide berth the last coupla days.

286 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:02:48am

re: #285 Targetpractice

Hence why I've been giving LGF a wide berth the last coupla days.

Has something happened over the last few days? I see an overtone of stuff.

287 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:04:24am

re: #285 Targetpractice

Hence why I've been giving LGF a wide berth the last coupla days.

I kind of don't get why people are flipping out. As far as I've seen, there's been a few totally out of line comments-- like accusations of people supporting Hamas-- but in general it is a really fucked up situation where any commentary is naturally going to be thorny. Mostly, I've seen people acknowledge the frustrating intractability of the situation and scrape their knuckles raw against reality.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was when I first got to LGF.

I guess I don't know what the ideal that other people have is of LGF.

288 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:07:20am

re: #287 Obdicut

I kind of don't get why people are flipping out. As far as I've seen, there's been a few totally out of line comments-- like people supporting Hamas-- but in general it is a really fucked up situation where any commentary is naturally going to be thorny. Mostly, I've seen people acknowledge the frustrating intractability of the situation and scrape their knuckles raw against reality.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was when I first got to LGF.

I guess I don't know what the ideal that other people have is of LGF.

Old habits die hard 'round here. Lot of folks still don't take kindly to the suggestion that Israel's actions are less than honorable.

289 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:12:09am

And now to bed, but as I depart...

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:13:02am

re: #288 Targetpractice

Old habits die hard 'round here. Lot of folks still don't take kindly to the suggestion that Israel's actions are less than honorable.

I'm not quite getting you. Did Israel do something wrong?

291 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:15:46am

re: #290 King of the Douche, now you may bow

I'm not quite getting you. Did Israel do something wrong?

Seems to be some argument over the righteous of Israel's actions versus Hamas'. I've only caught bits and pieces, but the relative merits of both sides seems to be the point of contention.

292 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:16:50am

re: #288 Targetpractice

Old habits die hard 'round here. Lot of folks still don't take kindly to the suggestion that Israel's actions are less than honorable.

I think it may be a function of how imbalanced criticism against Israel is in some of the mainstream press; it's a complication of the intricateness of the situation that Israel is in. To me, I see the 'correct' thing repeated often, by people of every political stripe, including those that I otherwise disagree with vehemently quite often: There are no good moves. Every path leads to a bad choice. Israel can let its citizens die from rocket attacks, or it can attack-- as precisely as possible-- Hamas, knowing that Palestinian citizens will die. And that may radicalize a new generation of Palestinians-- but sitting and just taking rockets might radicalize a new generation of Israelis.

Meanwhile, the Arab nations, an Iran, have this beautiful gift of an external bit of politics they can use to pacify their own populations. Israel as boogeyman, Jew as blame-carrier. And so with both conscious and unconscious means, those nations push the conflict along, supplying Palestinians with arms, with propaganda, and not supplying them with citizenship, with a future, with a place to live. And not supplying their own citizenry with civic or religious liberty.

I'm very concerned by Israel's swing towards the right in terms of government, and I'm very disturbed by the fact that some people take the fact that there is no immediate solution and turn it into 'Therefore, any decisive solution is great, like bombing the shit out of Gaza or destroying the Dome of the Rock or all out-war between the West and the Islamic nations'.

It's all messy and ugly and nasty, and I think the biggest problem in discussing it is that people want to reduce it to something simple, they want to find the thread to pull that will unravel it, they want to find the ethically pure choice. There isn't one. It's sad and causes despair and despair causes deeply strange actions and statements.

But there is hope. It's not immediate, but hope often isn't. It's on the horizon. The Troubles were solved, and that actually was a situation with far more historical bad blood than Israel vs. the Muslim/Arab world.

293 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:17:59am

re: #291 Targetpractice

Nobody at all has argued that Hamas has any righteousness in its actions. At most, people have said that the reprisal by Israel is part of a vicious cycle and serves no particular purpose. But nobody has insinuated righteousness belongs to Hamas.

294 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:20:07am

re: #293 Obdicut

Nobody at all has argued that Hamas has any righteousness in its actions. At most, people have said that the reprisal by Israel is part of a vicious cycle and serves no particular purpose. But nobody has insinuated righteousness belongs to Hamas.

Hence why I said I've only been getting bits and pieces. Honestly, I have to agree, it seems that at this point in the whole situation, there is no winning move. Only increasingly bad ones.

295 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:25:34am

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

No, the United States of America will not be exercising bold leadership on the international states in the near term nor likely in the mid-term. We're tired, frustrated, and broke.

Boldness requires clarity of vision and unity of purpose. We are not going to get that out of the current clusterf*ck that is the American political constellation of today

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:26:41am

Glen Rogers, Death Row Inmate, Killed Nicole Simpson, Says 'My Brother The Serial Killer' TV Doc
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

297 freetoken  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:27:41am

re: #285 Targetpractice

Hence why I've been giving LGF a wide berth the last coupla days.

Roger that.

298 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:32:24am

Terror Arrests: 4 California Men Arrested, Charged With Plotting To Wage 'Violent Jihad'
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

299 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:34:53am

re: #296 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Glen Rogers, Death Row Inmate, Killed Nicole Simpson, Says 'My Brother The Serial Killer' TV Doc
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Seriously? The "real killer" may have been found after all these years?

300 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:58:17am

re: #299 Targetpractice

Seriously? The "real killer" may have been found after all these years?

The irony being if it is true, OJ could be retried. The allegation is he hired the dude to steal the earrings, which would mean he was on the hook for the felony murder that occurred during the crime he'd commissioned.

301 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:05:50am

I'm getting some negative attention from other "pro-Israel" bloggers, who think I have gone over to the "Dark Side" because I'm not all "hurr hurr let's bomb the shit out of Gaza."

Of course I already got their attention by supporting Obama during the election.

302 Stanghazi  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:07:17am

Good morning from the Atlanta airport!

303 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:09:21am

re: #302 Stanghazi

Good morning from the Atlanta airport!

If you see Wolf Blitzer, throw an egg at him.
/

304 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:09:38am

Awww crap, "pro-Gaza" are now posting pictures of dead Israelis from suicide bombings 10 years ago and claiming they are Palestinians.

305 Stanghazi  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:11:07am

re: #303 Varek Raith

If you see Wolf Blitzer, throw an egg at him.
/

Doubtful, I'm with the regular travelling schmucks

306 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:16:22am
307 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:36:01am

Casualties are being reported in Beersheba where 11 rockets appeared to have hit.

Sirens went off all throughout Jerusalem and outlying areas. I've got relatives in Ma'ale Adummim, which is on the far side of Jerusalem from Gaza, but that doesn't make me feel any better.

308 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:39:30am

re: #307 lawhawk

Casualties are being reported in Bethlehem where 11 rockets appeared to have hit.

[Embedded content]

Sirens went off all throughout Jerusalem and outlying areas. I've got relatives in Ma'ale Adummim, which is on the far side of Jerusalem from Gaza, but that doesn't make me feel any better.

My daughter lives in Jerusalem, 2 blocks from the Old City.

309 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:40:11am

re: #300 Obdicut

Absolutely. He could be tried for conspiracy, felony murder, and lesser included charges.

And depending on what OJ said at the time and thereafter, he might also be up for perjury and obstruction of justice (that would require reading through the transcripts and interviews etc.)

310 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:40:48am

re: #308 Vicious Babushka

Hope they stay safe.

311 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:42:45am

News and opinion from the Alternate World, in this case, the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal's resident wingnut, Dr. Donald May:

Is Obama Supporting the Terrorists of Gaza?

Why does it appear that President Barack Obama is supporting the Islamic Terrorists of Gaza instead of supporting Israel? For the same reason it has seemed for many years that Obama supports Iran’s nuclear weapons program rather than the right of Israel to defend itself against Iranian nuclear weapons.

Aren't you glad we live in this universe, where we don't have a villainous Muslim Brotherhood agent as President? Yeah, me too.

312 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:44:59am

re: #304 Vicious Babushka

Awww crap, "pro-Gaza" are now posting pictures of dead Israelis from suicide bombings 10 years ago and claiming they are Palestinians.

[Embedded content]

How goddamn contemptible. My only hope is that the push-back gets more attention than the originals.

313 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:50:26am

re: #312 Obdicut

How goddamn contemptible. My only hope is that the push-back gets more attention than the originals.

If they have so many casualties of their own, who should not be ignored, what's the point in hijacking photos of dead Jews, Syrians, and victims of other conflicts?

314 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 4:51:38am
315 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:04:01am
316 Amory Blaine  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:07:16am

I just paid off my wife's car 2 weeks ago. So yesterday she rams into someone in stop and go traffic and gets herself an inattentive driving ticket to boot.

ARRRGGHHH!!

317 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:14:32am

re: #316 Amory Blaine

Hope she's okay though. That sucks about the car...

318 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:27:31am

re: #313 Vicious Babushka

If they have so many casualties of their own, who should not be ignored, what's the point in hijacking photos of dead Jews, Syrians, and victims of other conflicts?

Probably because the cowards aren't anywhere near the scenes of the attacks. or they get a perverse pleasure out of claiming that the victims of Islamic attacks are the victims of Israeli ones. A lot of guilty people do that-- accuse others of the crimes they've committed.

319 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:30:44am

re: #314 Vicious Babushka

It's stuff like that that makes Hamas's mission clear. They want to force a crisis. They lose if Gaza prospers. They win if it's hungry, angry, and desperate.

320 Stanghazi  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:31:08am

DUDE BEHIND ME LOUD BIRTHER

Help!!!!!

321 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:33:50am

re: #320 Stanghazi

Do you have an smartphone? Play this:

322 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:35:30am

re: #318 Obdicut

Probably because the cowards aren't anywhere near the scenes of the attacks. or they get a perverse pleasure out of claiming that the victims of Islamic attacks are the victims of Israeli ones. A lot of guilty people do that-- accuse others of the crimes they've committed.

Also, a lot of these pictures are being retweeted over and over without checking the provenance. I do have to wonder about the mentality of the person who first introduced the pictures into the Twitter stream.

323 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:36:29am

re: #319 Obdicut

It's stuff like that that makes Hamas's mission clear. They want to force a crisis. They lose if Gaza prospers. They win if it's hungry, angry, and desperate.

It just proves what I said before, that they are a criminal organization who want complete control of all commerce through their smuggling operations.

324 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:39:39am

re: #323 Vicious Babushka

It just proves what I said before, that they are a criminal organization who want complete control of all commerce through their smuggling operations.

They're a mix of everything bad. You've got the power-hungry, the religious fanatics, the ultra-nationalists, the completely propagandized, the criminal, and the just plain psychos. It selects for the worst.

325 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:41:47am

re: #322 Vicious Babushka

Though there's some confusion on that photo-- someone is claiming that the Arabic actually says that this is recent Israeli dead, so it's recycling an old photo to claim 'success' in killing Jews. Since I can't read Arabic, I dunno. Either way, it's an old photo recycling for shitty purposes.

326 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:42:37am

re: #322 Vicious Babushka

For some, it could be laziness in not bothering to check what they're sending. A dead body is a dead body they may reason; it's the emotional impact of the carnage that is significant to them, not that it's accurate (aka fake but accurate). For others, coopting the imagery is akin to the coopting of the language (genocide, holocaust, etc., which were central to the establishment of Israel). All of it is propaganda.

And the fact remains that despite the so called grim milestones and intensified casualties in the Gaza operation, the number of Palestinian dead pales in comparison to what Syria's Assad does in one day. Yet world attention is focused like a laser on what Israel does, the diplomats are busy trying to force a ceasefire, and Assad's laughing all the way to Tehran knowing that Hamas is his (and Iran's useful idiots) in diverting attention from where more than 30,000 have already been killed in a civil war that threatens to truly destabilize the region.

Turkey's called on NATO for missile defense systems to protect against Syrian fire (memo to Turkey, but the system you're looking for is Israel's Iron Dome, not the Patriot system). Lebanon is continuing to be threatened by Syrian provocateurs. Likewise, so too is Jordan.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia are looking at Gaza through the prism of trying to limit Iranian/Syrian influence - not merely as an Arab-Israeli conflict so their efforts to host ceasefire talks/diplomatic action has to be taken with that in mind as well.

327 Amory Blaine  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 5:50:50am

re: #317 lawhawk

Thank goodness no one was hurt.

328 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:02:43am

re: #320 Stanghazi

DUDE BEHIND ME LOUD BIRTHER

Help!!!!!

Take this +1 CluexFour.

330 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:08:46am

re: #304 Vicious Babushka

331 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:10:23am

re: #330 Obdicut

[Embedded content]

So what was the purpose of uploading this photo? War porn? Gloating?

332 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:15:45am

re: #331 Vicious Babushka

So what was the purpose of uploading this photo? War porn? Gloating?

I don't know, since I don't read Arabic. This is second-hand information, but it wasn't uploaded with the claim in Arabic that it's recent Gazan dead.

Twitter has now completely lost its charm for me, at least as a source of news. There are moments when it is great, but after the false information being spread during Hurricane Sandy, and photos being mis-attributed and re-mis-attributed, I feel like you have to be very, very selective in who you actually believe.

This is actually something I was talking about with my friend Mike Rusch, otherwise known as 'weeddude'. He's a scrupulous journalistic professional, and he thinks that being a responsible, reliable dude on Twitter is going to be the new version of being a breaking-news journalist, basically.

333 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:18:25am

Because the first thing you do when you're wanted for murder is start a blog:

Murder Suspect McAfee Blogs While on the Run From Police

Fugitives generally try to keep a low profile while running from the police, but murder suspect and tech entrepreneur John McAfee has done the opposite: He started a blog.

McAfee, founder of the eponymous anti-virus software company McAfee, launched “The Hinterland,” a blog detailing his experience hiding from authorities in Belize, on Saturday. He is the prime suspect in the murder of an American expat named Gregory Faull who was shot in his San Pedro Town home two weeks ago, Gizmodo reported.

Entitled “Introduction,” the first entry of McAfee’s “official blog” begins as follows:

“With lots of time on my hands and very little to do with it, I’ve been reflecting on the recent detour my life has taken. How did I end up as a murder suspect on the lam? The world press certainly has not helped. Autonomous and self-serving, the press does what it does best — sensationalize. And my character and the recent events of my life have been sensationalized to the max.”

McAfee then goes on to criticize Gizmodo writer Jeff Wise, who penned the article that discloses the former’s alleged involvement in Faull’s murder.

“I need to tell my story,” McAfee concludes, adding that he has limited and intermittent access to a computer and the Internet.

Since then, McAfee has posted a dozen entries. One post called “If I am captured” reveals that he has pre-written enough material to keep the blog going for “at least a year.” While McAfee focuses mainly on his legal troubles, he also writes about more mundane topics, such as Belizean culture.

A man claiming to be McAfee confirmed in an email to ABC News that “The Hinterland” is authentic.

334 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:18:30am

re: #332 Obdicut

Most people don't have the time to figure out who is the go-to person for a breaking news story, which is why so much crap will be spread during a breaking story (aside from the fact that many first impression/eyewitness reports turn out to be inaccurate anyways).

If you've been a reliable and responsible blogger in the past, you're likely to continue to be so as a twitterer (or whatever new form of instant news arises).

335 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:20:38am

re: #334 lawhawk

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

336 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:21:04am

Anyway, I've got to shower and shave and make it across the park to pick up my turkey from Whole Foods.

337 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:21:14am

re: #335 Obdicut

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

Weedude. Heh. Following.

338 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:40:18am

re: #335 Obdicut

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

I've been following Weeddude since Benghazi. That guy is really on top of things.

339 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:42:24am

Judd Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, has some hilarious batshittery at Whirled Nut Drooly explaining how Romney can STILL win the Presidency:

According to the 12th Amendment, for the Electoral College to be able to select the president, it must have a quorum of two-thirds of the states voting. If enough states refuse to participate, the Electoral College will not have a quorum. If the Electoral College does not have a quorum or otherwise cannot vote or decide, then the responsibility for selecting the president and vice president devolves to the Congress.

The House of Representatives selects the president and the Senate selects the vice president.

Mitt Romney carried 24 states. We need to have conservative activists from all over the nation contact the electors, the Republican Party and the secretary of state in all of these states and tell them not to participate in the Electoral College when it meets on Dec. 17.

If we can get 17 of those states (just over one-third) to refuse to participate, the Electoral College will have no quorum. Then, as the Constitution directs, the election goes to the House of Representatives.

That is how we can still pull this election out and make Mitt Romney president in January.

We need this concept shared with every tea party, liberty and patriotic group throughout the country. We have time to act, but we must pressure Republicans to do the right thing.

340 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:51:48am

re: #300 Obdicut

The irony being if it is true, OJ could be retried. The allegation is he hired the dude to steal the earrings, which would mean he was on the hook for the felony murder that occurred during the crime he'd commissioned.

But unless the guy has a signed receipt in OJ's handwriting what are the odds any sort of prosecution is going to get anywhere based pretty much solely on the word of a convicted serial killer?

341 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:54:23am

re: #313 Vicious Babushka

If they have so many casualties of their own, who should not be ignored, what's the point in hijacking photos of dead Jews, Syrians, and victims of other conflicts?

Obvious false-flag operation in order to portray *all* photos as being a Pally wood production.
/// (massive)

My personal opinion is that it's laziness combined with stupidity in grabbing the first image one gets. Who cares about accuracy as long as your posts, tweets, and possibly site gets attention?

342 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:55:09am

I'm making pie.
Apple pie.
Yum.

343 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:59:33am

re: #341 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Obvious false-flag operation in order to portray *all* photos as being a Pally wood production.
/// (massive)

My personal opinion is that it's laziness combined with stupidity in grabbing the first image one gets. Who cares about accuracy as long as your posts, tweets, and possibly site gets attention?

Reuters news story: Gaza Children Under Fire

The accompanying photo gallery to this story shows both Israeli and Palestinian children.

Therefore: someone who wants to Tweet this story has about a 50% chance of grabbing the wrong photo to illustrate the Tweet.

344 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:02:09am

re: #343 Vicious Babushka

Reuters news story: Gaza Children Under Fire

The accompanying photo gallery to this story shows both Israeli and Palestinian children.

So, poor journalism.

345 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:08:55am

re: #339 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

They yell and scream about the on-coming Obama dictatorship, and then suggest doing something like this?

346 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:16:13am
347 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:16:34am

re: #340 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Well, there's the possibility that someone taped the conversation (for blackmail purposes in case payment wasn't made)....

348 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:29:19am

re: #346 Vicious Babushka

{sigh}

And in other news

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Near the Israel-Gaza border (CNN) -- Egypt said Tuesday that Israel plans to halt its military action in Gaza within hours.

"The travesty of the Israel aggression on Gaza will end in a few hours," Egyptian President Mohammed Morsy said.

Dear Egypt , what about the "travesty' of the daily rocket barrage from Gaza prior to this latest military action???

349 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:30:52am
350 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:32:58am

re: #348 sattv4u2

More here, from the NYT

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

While Trying to Mediate, Egypt Blames Israel for Gaza Conflict

351 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:34:06am

re: #339 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Judd Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, has some hilarious batshittery at Whirled Nut Drooly explaining how Romney can STILL win the Presidency:

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

Somebody has misread and/or misunderstood the Twelfth Amendment. It only takes a simple majority of the Electoral votes to certify the Presidential election, there is no "quorum" requirement.

which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed;

The quorum this pea brain is talking about applies to the House of Representatives if they have to vote for the President because no majority exists among the Electoral vote.

But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.

Fine red states, don't send in your electoral votes, the blue states will and Obama will still have a majority of the Elector's votes. God you wingnuts are dumb... :(

352 Randall Gross  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:36:20am

Something for KT, a Bollywood blast from the past

353 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:44:10am
354 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 7:55:27am

re: #353 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Praying it happens

355 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:06:16am

re: #352 Randall Gross

Something for KT, a Bollywood blast from the past

[Embedded content]

Nice!

356 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:10:43am

re: #354 sattv4u2

Praying it happens

I think the Israelis really want to avoid a ground incursion if they can avoid it. They've been low on air targets to past 2 days or so, if they thought a ground incursion would accomplish anything they would have done it by now.

357 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:11:27am

re: #355 Killgore Trout

Nice!

knew you'd like that, Tony Moreno Patel

Image: MV5BMTU0NDk4MzA0NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTYwODIyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR11,0,214,317_.jpg
/

358 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:14:20am

re: #357 sattv4u2

Referral Denied
You don't have permission to access "[Link: ia.media-imdb.com...] on this server.

Reference #24.96e64217.1353428048.7da4b48

359 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:15:24am

re: #358 Varek Raith

Referral Denied
You don't have permission to access "[Link: ia.media-imdb.com...] on this server.

Reference #24.96e64217.1353428048.7da4b48

Works here

Maybe if you actually paid for service instead of stealing it !!

///

360 Joanne  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:21:41am

That is one of the coolest videos I have ever seen.

(just doing a drive by...back to work for me)

361 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:23:03am

re: #360 Joanne

That is one of the coolest videos I have ever seen.

(just doing a drive by...back to work for me)

You really need to get out more!!
///

362 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:25:54am

BREAKING: Gaza truce will be declared at 2 p.m. EST and go into effect at 5 p.m. EST: Hamas official... developing...

364 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:29:37am

re: #362 sattv4u2

BREAKING: Gaza truce will be declared at 2 p.m. EST and go into effect at 5 p.m. EST: Hamas official... developing...

Hamas is running out of rockets. Need time to replenish supplies.

365 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:30:21am

re: #364 Killgore Trout

Hamas is running out of rockets AND COMMANDERS HIDING IN SCHOOLYARDS. Need time to replenish supplies.

ftfy

366 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:34:25am

re: #365 sattv4u2

ftfy

And now we get to watch the sick joke that is a Palestinian "cease fire". It's so frustrating to watch these patterns repeat over and over again.

367 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:35:10am

Have an extra $200,000 laying around?

You can own a home AND become a citizen of Spain in one fell swoop!!
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

Spain: Residency for foreigners who buy houses

I actually kinda like the idea!!!

368 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:36:18am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

And now we get to watch the sick joke that is a Palestinian "cease fire". It's so frustrating to watch these patterns repeat over and over again.

Oh, I know

"We are abiding by the cease fire. The rockets we shoot into Israel have been decreased to the pre-crises numbers"

369 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:36:19am

I have a travesty of a quote right here.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

370 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:37:07am

re: #369 Daniel Ballard

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Dear Egypt , what about the "travesty' of the daily rocket barrage from Gaza prior to this latest military action???

371 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:38:15am

I'm hungry

Bagel or breakfast burrito,, hmmm,,,

372 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:38:44am

BWAHAHAA PWN3D

373 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:39:34am

Coconut flan. Ewwww.

374 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:40:27am

re: #367 sattv4u2

Have an extra $200,000 laying around?

You can own a home AND become a citizen of Spain in one fell swoop!!
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

Spain: Residency for foreigners who buy houses

I actually kinda like the idea!!!

Some nice properties
[Link: www.viviun.com...]

375 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:41:19am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

Guess she ignored the first sentence in his tweet...

376 brennant  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:42:11am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

That made me lol.

377 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:42:24am

re: #374 Killgore Trout

Some nice properties
[Link: www.viviun.com...]

Tempting, actually

378 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:42:24am

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

379 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:43:05am

re: #373 Vicious Babushka

Indeed- ick makes my tongue itch just thinking about it

380 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:44:22am

re: #378 DisturbedEma

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

A),, longtime Lizard here (two weeks shy of 6 years)
B),,I don't 'do" Twitter
C) I can't recall what I had for dinner last night, let alone something that was followed here in the past!!

Sorry

381 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:44:44am

re: #369 Daniel Ballard

I have a travesty of a quote right here.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Sadly, I think Israel ends up with the short end of the stick and Hamas is the big winner. It's only going to encourage them to do this again as soon as they can. Israel needs some new trick and tactics. The threat of ground invasion was hollow, air power can only do so much.

382 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:46:51am

Another question about credible sources. A loong time ago, I used to go to Honest Reporting for confirmation or stories of something called media bias (to be honest not even sure that term means anything anymore) against Israel, but have not been there in ages. Given the ideological changes that have occured in recent years in so many outlets, I ask is that still a credible source? The reasons I's asking are personal, in that I have to be on campus a lot in the next few weeks, and quite honestly I am so completely shredded mentally, I'm not sure where to look to get answers anymore.

383 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:46:59am

re: #377 sattv4u2

Tempting, actually

I want this more than words can say
Castle Transformed Into A Distinguished Seigneurial House

Asking Price: 620,000 €

384 Randall Gross  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:47:40am

re: #378 DisturbedEma

See this thread here, was quickly retracted so no real story, read comments.

Also, since you can still see Buck's post in the sidebar, it is being covered here.

385 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:48:05am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

And even her complaint ignores the fact that Cooper was talking about Hamas firing rockets from the vicinity of the journalism building in Gaza - the one that IDF has targeted on 3 occasions already.

It seems that Cooper and other journalists know, or should know, that they and their fellow journalists are being used as human shields around that building - and they really need to look sharp and stay safe because Hamas couldn't care who gets killed in their war against Israel. Cooper's comment indicates that he gets it. He understands that Hamas is attacking Israel from in and around where the journalists have holed up.

386 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:48:26am

re: #380 sattv4u2

Aww, well, thanks anyway and maybe toast you had? :)

I think I'm remembering pictures of missle attacks where some Lizards could actually tell that pixels were tweeked. . .it was some high tech stuff, so of course, over my head:)

387 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:49:00am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

I want this more than words can say
Castle Transformed Into A Distinguished Seigneurial House

Asking Price: 620,000 €

More pics here
[Link: castelldevicfred.wordpress.com...]

388 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:49:38am

re: #384 Randall Gross

Ah, missed both of these, thank you very much

389 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:50:04am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

I want this more than words can say
Castle Transformed Into A Distinguished Seigneurial House

Asking Price: 620,000 €

Lets pool our resources and go for it. It comes furnished

I have 1st dibs to the maids quarters, though!!

390 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:50:29am

re: #378 DisturbedEma

Photos are indeed being spread around Twitter that claim to be showing Palestinian casualties and are instead casualties from other conflicts (such as Syria), including Israelis killed in prior terror attacks or being treated by MDA in Israel during the current fighting. You have to take what you see on Twitter with a grain of salt and not everything is what it appears.

In other words - SS/DD. Twitter just makes those propaganda bits come around even faster and more insidious to respond to/with.

391 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:51:07am

re: #389 sattv4u2

Lets pool our resources and go for it. It comes furnished

I have 1st dibs to the maids quarters, though!!

I'll take the wine cellar!

392 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:52:34am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

I want this more than words can say
Castle Transformed Into A Distinguished Seigneurial House

Asking Price: 620,000 €

Yeah, check out the music room. You could party in there like it's 1499.

393 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:53:02am

re: #390 lawhawk

Ah, thanks I just wanted to check.

394 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:55:39am

re: #378 DisturbedEma

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

Daylife was bought out and put behind a paywall, so there's no easy way to check the media photo streams like we used to do.

Stuff gets Tweeted and re-Tweeted without verifying the provenance.

395 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:57:16am

re: #394 Vicious Babushka

That sounds familiar, so I think that was the reference I read recently. Thank you very much for the help.

396 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 8:58:41am

re: #393 DisturbedEma

Ah, thanks I just wanted to check.

As I posted upthread, Weeddude is a good journalist to follow on Twitter. Just note that a retweet doesn't imply he agrees with something, just that he thinks its newsworthy commentary.

397 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:09:05am
398 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:09:37am

YES! I may have just landed my first client. I'm a happy camper today. :D

399 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:10:07am

re: #397 makeitstop

Umm....srsly??

Say What?! Marco Rubio On His Love For Hip-Hop & Tupac!

Is this anything like Paul Ryan and his supposed love for Rage Against the Machine?

400 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:11:30am

re: #398 Lidane

YES! I may have just landed my first client. I'm a happy camper today. :D

hope it's a big fish!!

401 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:13:04am

gaza air strike 20.11.12

Looks like another case when the IDF calls the neighbors to give them a heads up

402 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:16:35am

re: #401 Killgore Trout

gaza air strike 20.11.12

[Embedded content]

Looks like another case when the IDF calls the neighbors to give them a heads up

"Hey,.,,, y'know that Hamas commander that just moved in next door? I don't think we'll be needing to get him a housewarming gift"

403 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:16:56am

re: #400 sattv4u2

hope it's a big fish!!

I hope so too. They want some documents translated into Traditional Chinese. We're playing phone tag at the moment but I'm hopeful. :D

404 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:17:23am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

I want this more than words can say
Castle Transformed Into A Distinguished Seigneurial House

Asking Price: 620,000 €

Tempting... but think how much it would cost to heat a castle.

405 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:20:04am

re: #404 Schadenfreude 'r' Us

Tempting... but think how much it would cost to heat a castle.

Just make the peasants chop more wood!!

406 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:20:37am

re: #404 Schadenfreude 'r' Us

Tempting... but think how much it would cost to heat a castle.

It's Spain. Warm, dry Mediterranean climate.

407 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:21:51am

re: #405 sattv4u2

Just make the peasants chop more wood!!

We''l need a catapult in that tower to show the peasants who's boss.

408 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:23:27am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

We''l need a catapult in that tower to show the peasants who's boss.

I have the cauldrons and the fire going

You supply the oil!!

409 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:29:37am

re: #399 Lidane

Is this anything like Paul Ryan and his supposed love for Rage Against the Machine?

I guess so. Ir cracks me up that he says 'Straight Outta Compton' is one of his favorite songs. He would have been drummed out of his party for that 20 years ago.

410 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:34:52am

re: #396 Obdicut

Thank you very much

411 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:36:22am

re: #409 makeitstop

I guess so. Ir cracks me up that he says 'Straight Outta Compton' is one of his favorite songs. He would have been drummed out of his party for that 20 years ago.

Could see Rubio walking the streets of Compton before I could believe Ryan would.

412 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:39:10am

re: #410 DisturbedEma

Thank you very much

Though note that he's just one dude, so he needs to sleep. He's asleep right now.

413 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:39:21am

California terror suspect allegedly said plan to kill 'excites me'

Santana and Kabir allegedly posted terrorist audio and video files on Facebook pages and communicated via Skype when Kabir was overseas, federal authorities said in the complaint.

Over the course of the past several months, Deleon, Santana and Gojali made numerous plans to join Kabir, according to the 77-page complaint, which lays out a portrait of young men dedicated to their beliefs -- and willing to kill for them.

Deleon said he had thought about killing and "wouldn't have a problem if it's, it's for Allah."

"The more I think about it, the more it excites me," Santana said.

414 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:43:09am

re: #411 Eventual Carrion

Could see Rubio walking the streets of Compton before I could believe Ryan would.

True. I'm a little disappointed he didn't say 'Fuck Tha Police' was one of his faves, though.
/

415 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:44:58am

re: #414 makeitstop

True. I'm a little disappointed he didn't say 'Fuck Tha Police' was one of his faves, though.
/

I think the lyrics of Straight out of Compton are kinda 'worse' than those of Fuck that Police. I'd love to get Rubio to recite some.

416 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:45:39am

re: #414 makeitstop

True. I'm a little disappointed he didn't say 'Fuck Tha Police' was one of his faves, though.
/

Heh. Just wait, one of them will desperately claim that their favorite song is "Holiday In Cambodia"

417 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:45:45am

re: #304 Vicious Babushka

Awww crap, "pro-Gaza" are now posting pictures of dead Israelis from suicide bombings 10 years ago and claiming they are Palestinians.

[Embedded content]

That's horrid, and it outlines just how low some people will stoop.

418 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:48:46am

re: #394 Vicious Babushka

Daylife was bought out and put behind a paywall, so there's no easy way to check the media photo streams like we used to do.

Stuff gets Tweeted and re-Tweeted without verifying the provenance.

One of us could sign up for their pay service. How much does it cost?

419 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:55:24am

re: #416 William Barnett-Lewis

Heh. Just wait, one of them will desperately claim that their favorite song is "Holiday In Cambodia"

Didn't Jello run for mayor of SF at one point?

I saw him with Adrian Belew and the School Of Rock All-Stars a few years back. Still a masterful performer.

As I type this, 'Holiday In Cambodia' comes on the radio! What are the odds?

420 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:57:27am

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

One of us could sign up for their pay service. How much does it cost?

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

421 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:00:55am

re: #412 Obdicut

noted I'd want to be respectful so thanks again

422 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:02:59am

re: #304 Alouette

Memories remain- I 'm heartsick for the families

423 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:04:42am

re: #419 makeitstop

What station? I'm amused that there is even one that would play it.

424 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:06:24am

re: #422 DisturbedEma

Memories remain- I 'm heartsick for the families

Memories remain, but those photos will be misused for years to come. Once an internet meme like that gets started its almost impossible to club down.

425 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:07:48am

re: #424 Dark_Falcon

Sick sick sick to know that you're right. . .

426 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:08:22am

Destro is being very active on his Pages today. This one is is his post of a truly awful CNN article. Please take a look and then let him know how wrong the article is.

427 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:15:30am

re: #423 William Barnett-Lewis

What station? I'm amused that there is even one that would play it.

Some internet station. We've got one of those Logitec Squeezebox Radios. My wife put some alternative station on. Not sure which one.

428 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:16:05am

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Meh. Dealing with him is like dealing with Buck. Both are on my "please don't feed the troll" list.

429 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:16:44am

re: #428 William Barnett-Lewis

Meh. Dealing with him is like dealing with Buck. Both are on my "please don't feed the troll" list.

Heh. They do share a remarkably similarity.

430 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:17:22am

re: #428 William Barnett-Lewis

Meh. Dealing with him is like dealing with Buck. Both are on my "please don't feed the troll" list.

Sometimes they feed each other....I stand back and watch, or change the channel.

431 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:17:37am

re: #427 makeitstop

Some internet station. We've got one of those Logitec Squeezebox Radios. My wife put some alternative station on. Not sure which one.

Ah, that makes much more sense. Though the Public Radio station out on the Rez probably would too :) My wife has turned into one of the premier punk dj's out there :LOL:

432 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:22:06am

My daughter sent me a MOV video of a "Code Red" taken from her husband's office window, but the video is upside down! How do I rotate it?

433 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:22:30am

re: #429 Obdicut

Heh. They do share a remarkably similarity.

Thanks for the comments, though. Your sanity is appreciated.

434 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:23:01am

re: #432 Vicious Babushka

My daughter sent me a MOV video of a "Code Red" taken from her husband's office window, but the video is upside down! How do I rotate it?

Stand on your head!

435 b_sharp  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:24:09am

re: #434 sattv4u2

Stand on your head!

Makes sense to me.

436 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:24:55am

re: #432 Vicious Babushka

Windows Movie Maker can do it. It's a free download.

[Link: windows.microsoft.com...]

437 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:25:45am

I just had a red velvet, vanilla frosted cupcake,,, for lunch

Cuase that's how I roll!!!

438 jaunte  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:27:50am

Buenos dias, henchachos.

439 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:29:24am

re: #438 jaunte

Buenos dias, henchachos.

And a hearty gazuntite to you too

440 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:29:41am

re: #438 jaunte

Buenos dias, henchachos.

Hello. Anything interesting going on in your neck of the woods?

441 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:31:37am

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

Hello. Anything interesting going on in your neck of the woods?

Why,, planning on moving/ going there if there is??

442 jaunte  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:31:50am

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

Today its nice and sunny, 75 degrees, a rare pleasant day in Houston, and I'm stuck inside trying to keep the business running.

443 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:32:00am

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

We are all honcos.

I haven't been around long enough to know, so could someone explain "honco" to me? I would be much obliged and might even reciprocate with an upding.

444 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:32:57am

re: #443 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I haven't been around long enough to know, so could someone explain "honco" to me? I would be much obliged and might even reciprocate with an upding.

When someone calls you that, you have to send that person $20, honco!!
//

445 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:34:13am

re: #443 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I haven't been around long enough to know, so could someone explain "honco" to me? I would be much obliged and might even reciprocate with an upding.

It's an anagram for "Human-Ophis Novel Chimeric Order", which is the name of Charles's hybrid lizard-human-breeding project.

446 jaunte  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:34:27am

re: #443 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

A critical email from Kuala Lumpur to our host once described the readers/commenters here as "zionist honcos."

447 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:34:56am

((someone a long time ago fat fingered "Honchos" ))

448 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:36:09am

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome. If the critics of anti missile technology that called it impossible and a waste of money had had their way, many more would be dead, and the Gaza ground invasion would have been a certainty.

Iron Dome is now a proven lifesaver, and proof of concept that defensive missiles do not de stabilize a region, they just save lives. At this point, on both sides. Only the aggressor needs to fear anti missile technology.

Putin take note, your peculiar bellicosity does not change the facts.

449 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:36:13am

re: #339 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Judd Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, has some hilarious batshittery at Whirled Nut Drooly explaining how Romney can STILL win the Presidency:

Looky at what WND says now...lmao

Editor’s note, Nov. 20, 2012: Since this column was posted it has been discovered that the premise presented about the Electoral College and the Constitution is in error.

450 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:36:54am

re: #448 Daniel Ballard

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome.

There is absolutely zero relationship between Iron Dome and Star Wars.

451 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:37:28am

A block away from where I am is a gun shop. A friend just told me that the reason there was a helicopter in the area and a bunch of traffic diverted onto the street out front was that an employee in that gun shop was handling a gun and it went off and shot a customer in the back. The victim was flown to the nearest trauma center, about 150 miles away. I hope he's OK.

Now it seems more dangerous to go to the post office (across the street from the gun shop) than to walk in the woods during deer season.

452 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:37:54am

Here it is, "Code Red" at the Kotel!

453 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:38:59am

re: #449 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Looky at what WND says now...lmao

If the piece is in error to that degree, thet it ought to be taken down entirely. But of course that won't happen, since it would be seen as "capitulating to Obamunism" or some such stupidity.

454 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:40:04am

re: #450 Obdicut

There is absolutely zero relationship between Iron Dome and Star Wars.

Not really true. Iron Dome used a good deal of the R&D work done on ABM systems.

455 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:40:14am

re: #449 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Looky at what WND says now...lmao

Need the clip of NOMAD from that TOS Star Trek episode going... "Err..or?" and then freaking out.
;)

456 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:40:42am

re: #431 William Barnett-Lewis

Ah, that makes much more sense. Though the Public Radio station out on the Rez probably would too :) My wife has turned into one of the premier punk dj's out there :LOL:

That's pretty cool! I did a lot of radio back when I was in college. And I would have gone on to do it professionally, had it not been for those pesky guitars. :)

457 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:40:49am

re: #432 Vicious Babushka

Take your monitor and place it upside down of course. /

458 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:42:09am

re: #451 wrenchwench

Where do you live? Just curious as to if it's open-carry or why in the world somebody was handling a loaded firearm. Especially if you're an employee at the shop.

The problem with dumb people and firearms is that they always seem to accidentally shoot somebody else and not themselves.

459 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:43:30am

re: #450 Obdicut

There is absolutely zero relationship between Iron Dome and Star Wars.

That's untrue. The strategy is the same. The concept of anti missile defense is the same. And the R&D work certainly carried forward, as aerospace technology always rests on past advances.

Sorry anti missile defense critics-you were wrong.

460 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:44:04am

re: #449 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Looky at what WND says now...lmao

Jeez, I thought they had already thrown Rmoney under the bus and were back to working on impeachment. Hard to keep up with the frothing lunatics these days.

461 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:44:08am

re: #458 Ghost of Tom Joad

Where do you live? Just curious as to if it's open-carry or why in the world somebody was handling a loaded firearm. Especially if you're an employee at the shop.

The problem with dumb people and firearms is that they always seem to accidentally shoot somebody else and not themselves.

I think there are lots of cases of people mishandling firearms and shooting themselves while handling or cleaning. But treated as a "dog bites man" event and thus not considered worthy of reporting.

462 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:44:57am

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

Not really true. Iron Dome used a good deal of the R&D work done on ABM systems.

Star Wars was the space-based stuff, the lasers and rail guns and shit. If you just mean SDI in general, then sure, but interceptor technology isn't new, and arguably Star Wars delayed interceptor technology by a lot since so much of the focus was on the Star Wars pie in the sky stuff that would never work.

Even the ground-based stuff is a very weak argument. Very little research is every truly wasted, but if they had actually focused on tactical interception from the get-go they'd be a lot farther ahead.

463 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:45:04am

re: #458 Ghost of Tom Joad

Where do you live? Just curious as to if it's open-carry or why in the world somebody was handling a loaded firearm. Especially if you're an employee at the shop.

The problem with dumb people and firearms is that they always seem to accidentally shoot somebody else and not themselves.

New Mexico. It's open-carry, and concealed with a permit. I've seen signs on the door of the shop warning customers not to ever bring in a loaded weapon. And I know you're always supposed to handle a weapon as though it's loaded. But there's always the stupid.

464 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:48:14am

re: #462 Obdicut

arguably Star Wars delayed interceptor technology by a lot since so much of the focus was on the Star Wars pie in the sky stuff that would never work.

They were going to use pies? You're right, that would never work! Also: I wouldn't trust this guy.

465 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:48:18am

Hmm, Kevin Clash has resigned from Sesame Street. Elmo made no comment.

[Link: theclicker.today.com...]

466 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:49:10am

re: #463 wrenchwench

/le sigh I come from a hunting/somewhat gun-nutty background, so anytime I read a story like this I just cringe. Come on people.

467 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:49:24am

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't satire from the Onion - its a real article in The Atlantic

Mitt Romney Is Back to Pumping His Own Gas

The picture included is absolutely priceless.

468 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:49:34am

re: #462 Obdicut

Not just pie in the sky-

Under the SDIO's Innovative Sciences and Technology Office, headed by physicist and engineer Dr. James Ionson,[5] the investment was predominantly made in basic research at national laboratories, universities, and in industry, and these programs have continued to be key sources of funding for top research scientists in the fields of high-energy physics, supercomputing/computation, advanced materials, and many other critical science and engineering disciplines: funding which indirectly supports other research work by top scientists, and which would be politically impossible to fund outside of the defense budget environment.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

469 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:49:34am

re: #445 Obdicut

It's an anagram for "Human-Ophis Novel Chimeric Order", which is the name of Charles's hybrid lizard-human-breeding project.

re: #446 jaunte

A critical email from Kuala Lumpur to our host once described the readers/commenters here as "zionist honcos."

re: #447 sattv4u2

((someone a long time ago fat fingered "Honchos" ))

I think I like Obdicut's best, even though I don't believe it for a second..

470 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:51:35am

re: #459 Daniel Ballard

That's untrue. The strategy is the same. The concept of anti missile defense is the same. And the R&D work certainly carried forward, as aerospace technology always rests on past advances.

Sorry anti missile defense critics-you were wrong.

Yeah, because Israel is using lasers in space to shoot down mortar rounds.

SDI did not start the concept of anti-missile defense. That was Project Nike.

I think you're just confused about what critics were criticizing and why. I think you're also making the mistake that just because research led to another discovery later, that initial research was efficient.

471 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:51:49am

re: #467 RadicalModerate

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't satire from the Onion - its a real article in The Atlantic

Mitt Romney Is Back to Pumping His Own Gas

The picture included is absolutely priceless.

It looks like he's been sleeping in those clothes.

472 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:52:24am

re: #467 RadicalModerate

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't satire from the Onion - its a real article in The Atlantic

Mitt Romney Is Back to Pumping His Own Gas

The picture included is absolutely priceless.

HE'S GOING GARY BUSEY ON US!

473 dragonfire1981  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:53:43am

Did this editorial ever get mentioned earlier at LGF?

For the record, the writer is a Canadian who does not and has not ever lived in America.

474 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:53:53am

No, Iron Dome has nothing at all to do with "Star Wars," and it does not vindicate the Star Wars concept. See:

[Link: www.foreignpolicy.com...]

475 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:54:01am

re: #468 Daniel Ballard

Hey, I support giving shitloads of money to engineers and high energy physicists and the rest.

But we don't, and we won't, have a working Star Wars system. If we had spent the money directly on figuring out tactical missile interception rather than ICBM, we'd have a much better version of Iron Dome now. Instead, the research has to be adapted.

But I totally am on board with just shoving money at physicists and material engineers and shit. I love that. And arguably fantasy projects that have no real chance of coming true set a nicely high bar. But we'd have a much better missile defense system now if they had focused on tactical missile defense from the start, rather than anti-ICBM defense.

476 DisturbedEma  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:54:22am

re: #437 sattv4u2

Noted, if you need reminding about what you had for lunch a got your back:)

477 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:54:23am

re: #467 RadicalModerate

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't satire from the Onion - its a real article in The Atlantic

Mitt Romney Is Back to Pumping His Own Gas

The picture included is absolutely priceless.

That guy should have called 9-11. Mitt looks like he's got dead people in his vehicle, and he's going out to kill a few more.

478 dragonfire1981  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:55:14am

re: #467 RadicalModerate

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't satire from the Onion - its a real article in The Atlantic

Mitt Romney Is Back to Pumping His Own Gas

The picture included is absolutely priceless.

I can picture him holing up in his house and somewhat losing his mind, actually pretending he's President, holding "intelligence briefings" with stuffed animals, hiring neighborhood kids as "secret service" and refusing to answer to anything besides "Mr. President" or "President Romney".

479 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:56:06am

re: #448 Daniel Ballard

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome.

Sorry but that's complete and utter bullshit. Iron Dome is the simple linear successor to the Patriot missile system, active since 1981. Star Wars was supposed to be space based, used energy weapons and orbiting "brilliant pebbles." The intercept speeds involved were orders of magnitude greater than anything Iron Dome will ever be asked to deal with. A Qassam rocket moves at 200 meters per second, less than Mach 1. A typical incoming ICBM is moving at around Mach 23. That problem still hasn't been reliably solved. Even the US missile defense interceptors at Vandenberg game their tests by spin stabilizing and putting transponders on all their targets. We're learning more about how to deliberately run two of our own missiles into each other than duplicating an enemy ICBM launch with decoys, etc.

480 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:56:26am

re: #478 dragonfire1981

That's Bruce Campbell on a bad day.

(Just noticed the similarity.)

481 dragonfire1981  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:56:28am

re: #474 Charles Johnson

No, Iron Dome has nothing at all to do with "Star Wars," and it does not vindicate the Star Wars concept. See:

[Link: www.foreignpolicy.com...]

I'll take a crack army of Stormtroopers and Imperial Walkers over a dome any day.

482 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:58:20am

re: #480 Obdicut

That's Bruce Campbell on a bad day.

(Just noticed the similarity.)

This...is my CAR ELEVATOR!

483 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:58:35am
484 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:59:17am

re: #481 dragonfire1981

I'll take a crack army of Stormtroopers and Imperial Walkers over a dome any day.

You'd be better off with a bunch of muppets with spears.

485 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:59:53am

re: #480 Obdicut

That's Bruce Campbell on a bad day.

(Just noticed the similarity.)

That's an insult to Bruce Campbell. Heh.

486 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 10:59:59am

re: #484 Kragar

You'd be better off with a bunch of muppets with spears.

Horses and bayonets.

487 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:00:12am

re: #485 Lidane

That's an insult to Bruce Campbell. Heh.

Hey, he's said he'd like to play villains.

488 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:01:20am
489 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:01:33am

re: #483 Lidane

[Embedded content]

There spokesman's name certainly seems accurate. Pratt.

490 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:01:39am

re: #484 Kragar

You'd be better off with a bunch of muppets with spears.

My theory is that Endor had some of the most primo weed in existence, and the stormtroopers and AT-AT drivers etc. there were just blazed out of their mind, thus managing to lose a battle to corpulent wombats.

491 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:01:56am
492 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:02:03am

re: #483 Lidane

[Embedded content]

They're shit-eatingly stupid, and they're armed!

493 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:02:40am
494 jaunte  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:04:13am

re: #491 Lidane

Couldn't be the high fructose corn syrup.

495 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:05:16am

IOTD

496 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:05:59am

re: #473 dragonfire1981

Did this editorial ever get mentioned earlier at LGF?

For the record, the writer is a Canadian who does not and has not ever lived in America.

Looking at his editorial today, he's a fan of Gilad Sharon's idea of genocide in Gaza.

[Link: www.galganov.com...]

497 TedStriker  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:06:36am

re: #465 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Hmm, Kevin Clash has resigned from Sesame Street. Elmo made no comment.

[Link: theclicker.today.com...]

He shouldn't have been allowed to resign, he should have been sacked.

498 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:07:25am

re: #496 RadicalModerate

Hah. He really is making the "Romney didn't fail... the American people did!" argument.

499 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:07:39am

re: #475 Obdicut

Hey, I support giving shitloads of money to engineers and high energy physicists and the rest.

But we don't, and we won't, have a working Star Wars system. If we had spent the money directly on figuring out tactical missile interception rather than ICBM, we'd have a much better version of Iron Dome now. Instead, the research has to be adapted.

But I totally am on board with just shoving money at physicists and material engineers and shit. I love that. And arguably fantasy projects that have no real chance of coming true set a nicely high bar. But we'd have a much better missile defense system now if they had focused on tactical missile defense from the start, rather than anti-ICBM defense.

but back in the 1980's the big threat was seen to be Soviet ICBMs. So that's where the research dollars went, into stopping that threat. Later, when other threats took priority, monies were channeled towards dealing with those.

But one bit of tech that came into wide use in the 80's has proven useful for countering rockets.

500 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:07:55am

re: #470 Obdicut

You moved my goalposts again. I never said efficient. SDI was a spectrum of technologies, critics linchpin their argument on the most difficult technologies, and were dead wrong about kinetic hit to kill being impossible. Lasers don't work YET. They will.

SDI, later expanded under Clinton resulted in functional defensive missiles good enough to hit warheads or satellites.

NIKE (A program I researched for various reasons including a photo shoot at an old installation) was about intercepting incoming bombers, not ICBM warheads. It predates the ICBM age. In fact ICBM (then later multi warhead or MIRV) is why in part NIKE was abandoned as obsolete. It was an atom bomb on a missile designed to take out multiple bombers at a stroke.

Folks we have a limited working system in place. The concept of anti missile interception by a missile was widely called impossible. It isn't. Arguing it's not star wars is using a critics phrase to define it, unfair at best.

And I disagree with basing the criticism on the technology at all. What I point out is the concept once called impossible is in fact possible. It's limited, it's not perfect but we now have a proof of concept like we never had before.

501 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:07:55am

re: #497 Ben G. Hazi

He shouldn't have been allowed to resign, he should have been sacked.

The guy recanted, you know, and said it was a consensual adult relationship. Huge age difference, but still not a reason to fire him.

502 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:08:00am

Hahaha:

503 dragonfire1981  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:08:47am

re: #497 Ben G. Hazi

He shouldn't have been allowed to resign, he should have been sacked.

I disagree. Remember he hasn't been convicted of anything and only admitted to a consensual relationship. Allegations should not be enough to get someone canned. Suspended maybe, but not fired.

Clash made the smart move here.

504 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:10:09am

re: #495 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

IOTD

I think Cosmo posted that tweet.

505 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:10:10am

re: #501 Obdicut

The guy recanted, you know, and said it was a consensual adult relationship. Huge age difference, but still not a reason to fire him.

Agreed.

And Kevin Clash is one of the coolest names ever.

506 jaunte  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:10:28am

re: #473 dragonfire1981

Did this editorial ever get mentioned earlier at LGF?

For the record, the writer is a Canadian who does not and has not ever lived in America.

"When that New York SCREWBALL Mayor (Bloomberg) legislated the size of soft drinks FREE PEOPLE could NOT buy, who accepted HIS decision to take away THEIR Freedom, it said all that needed to be said about how unimportant FREEDOM means to most people."

The Big Gulp, she is the litmus water of FREEDOM!

507 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:10:30am

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

but back in the 1980's the big threat was seen to be Soviet ICBMs. So that's where the research dollars went, into stopping that threat.

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

508 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:11:59am

BTW, Iron Dome has to do some things that SDI wasn't intended to deal with - that is short period launch, acquisition, target, and destroy because of the range and time constraints of shooting down short range missiles/mortars.

While the speeds of mortars and kassams (or any of the other missiles/rockets in Hamas' arsenal) is nothing like that of an approaching ballistic missile trajectory, the time involved is far more compressed. You have seconds to acquire the target versus several minutes following launch of an ICBM to acquire the target.

Target acquisition is another issue. ICBM has a specific identifying trait - the large energy signature that can be picked up on infrared and is easily identifiable. The energy signatures for kassams, let alone mortars is far smaller and more difficult to pick out - especially in an urban environment.

It's amazing that Iron Dome works as well as is currently being indicated (and as with the Patriots during Desert Storm, the final tally will likely be lower than advertised but still impressive nonetheless).

The only thing that Iron Dome really has in common with SDI is that both are intended to deal with an inbound missile threat.

If a country operated a missile defense system in depth, you'd have CIWS, followed by Iron Dome, then Patriot. SDI would have supplemented that Patriot with a system that goes after the missiles in the launch phase as well as in midflight while Patriot goes after the inbound target in the terminal phase.

509 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:12:49am

re: #474 Charles Johnson

No, Iron Dome has nothing at all to do with "Star Wars," and it does not vindicate the Star Wars concept. See:

[Link: www.foreignpolicy.com...]

Disagree. My point is the basic concept (not particular tech) that was called impossible. The wisdom of such a system varies by location and timing. Euorpe? Dodgy. Alaska? Vandenberg? Perfectly appropriate.

But IMO stopping incoming warheads with advanced tech is a fine idea. On that point, I find the critics to be in error. Iron Dome with it's limitation validates the concept.

510 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:13:38am

re: #507 Obdicut

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

But the Soviet Union ended up thinking we might well be able to pull it off (Putin still does think that) and the resultant fear helped drive Gorbachev to the negotiation table.

511 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:16:16am

re: #509 Daniel Ballard

Disagree. My point is the basic concept (not particular tech) that was called impossible.

And the concept of intercepting ICBMs in mass numbers is impossible.

But IMO stopping incoming warheads with advanced tech is a fine idea. On that point, I find the critics to be in error. Iron Dome with it's limitation validates the concept.

Then it seems like you don't understand the concepts. It's like saying that developing skill hitting a baseball makes you better at hockey because they both involve hitting things with sticks.

512 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:16:44am

re: #507 Obdicut

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

Adding this to the long list of people who called certain technologies impossible that were later proven wrong. BTW lasers in space were set aside because of an agreement to not weaponize space. That agreement may fall and of course it's obvious lasers work better without an atmosphere to cut through first.

513 erik_t  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:17:28am

re: #511 Obdicut

And the concept of intercepting ICBMs in mass numbers is impossible.

Well, to be pedantic, the concept is just fine. It's the utterly hilarious cost of the absurd number of interceptors you'd need that makes the idea laugh-out-loud impractical.

514 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:19:03am

re: #510 Dark_Falcon

But the Soviet Union ended up thinking we might well be able to pull it off (Putin still does think that) and the resultant fear helped drive Gorbachev to the negotiation table.

Gorbachev asked his science adviser if SDI could work. His adviser said no, they could easily build countermeasures and overwhelm it with numbers. This was correct. Sadly, the USSR had a better grasp on the science of it than us.

However, it was still a useful political weapon because ordinary people didn't really understand it wasn't possible, so it did put pressure on Gorbachev. And maybe Gorbachev didn't trust Soviet scientists, because Soviet science had a band tendency to tell the leadership what they though the leadership wanted to know.

515 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:19:33am

One interesting thing will be to see how anti-rocket systems fare if one of them is even faced with a foe who has access to Anti-Radiation Missiles (ARMs). That sort of threat could majorly degrade an anti-missile system's effectiveness.

516 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:19:46am

re: #512 Daniel Ballard

Adding this to the long list of people who called certain technologies impossible that were later proven wrong.

What are you talking about? We don't have a working ICBM interception system. Why are you trying to claim we do?

517 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:20:25am

re: #513 erik_t

Well, to be pedantic, the concept is just fine. It's the utterly hilarious cost of the absurd number of interceptors you'd need that makes the idea laugh-out-loud impractical.

Sure. So is the concept of floating orbital colonies of sheep to get in the way of the ICBMs.

Let's fund that. I bet we get awesome research from that and, hey, space wool.

518 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:23:11am

re: #514 Obdicut

Gorbachev asked his science adviser if SDI could work. His adviser said no, they could easily build countermeasures and overwhelm it with numbers. This was correct. Sadly, the USSR had a better grasp on the science of it than us.

However, it was still a useful political weapon because ordinary people didn't really understand it wasn't possible, so it did put pressure on Gorbachev. And maybe Gorbachev didn't trust Soviet scientists, because Soviet science had a band tendency to tell the leadership what they though the leadership wanted to know.

It was also that Gorbachev thought, correctly, that his R&D people were self-serving and would push to build new ICBMs to justify their positions and agency budgets.

Thankfully, however it went, things did cool down starting with the signing of the IRBM Treaty in 1987. The elimination of the Pershing IIs and SS-20s was the arms-control success the left had said Reagan would never embrace. But Reagan's belief in the 'Zero Option' he articulated proved sincere.

519 Lidane  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:23:23am

Things that make you go hmmm...

520 erik_t  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:23:49am

re: #517 Obdicut

Sure. So is the concept of floating orbital colonies of sheep to get in the way of the ICBMs.

Let's fund that. I bet we get awesome research from that and, hey, space wool.

Spoken with the dour mocking tone of a man who hasn't experienced his first space-wool thong.

Haters gonna hate.

(I do not endorse spending a godzillian dollars on a SDI-scale actual factual missile mega-shield)

521 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:23:52am

re: #511 Obdicut

And the concept of intercepting ICBMs in mass numbers is impossible.

Then it seems like you don't understand the concepts. It's like saying that developing skill hitting a baseball makes you better at hockey because they both involve hitting things with sticks.

Please try not to confuse our differing views with a lack of understanding on my part. You had NIKE wrong. You had to admit that yes certain tech carried forward from SDI, again later (thankfully) furthered by the Clinton administration. Investments continue because of the validity of the concept.

Stopping thousands of warheads is impossible. How does that make stopping some a bad idea? (Rhetorical it does not) The money argument is the usual lives vs defense costs argument. Some day more nations will have ICBM. Will they have thousands? Prolly not.

522 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:24:44am

re: #516 Obdicut

What are you talking about? We don't have a working ICBM interception system. Why are you trying to claim we do?

Not entirely true...

[Link: www.mda.mil...]

523 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:28:42am

I've never had reason to consider a vacation in Branson. Until now. That would be the world's first twisting wooden coaster - it will do a double barrel roll among its other tricks (world's steepest, and 2d fastest wooden coaster in the world).

524 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:29:36am

re: #521 Daniel Ballard

Please try not to confuse our differing views with a lack of understanding on my part.

You seem to think we have a working ICBM interception system. We don't. You seem to think there is a similarity in intercepting an ICBM and intercepting a mortar round. Let me be clear: There's about as much similarity as there is between an ICBM and a mortar round.

Stopping thousands of warheads is impossible. How does that make stopping some a bad idea?

Because they're nuclear warheads, and stopping some will not significantly lower the damage given sufficient numbers, which the Soviets had. In addition, we don't have any reason to believe we could even stop some.

Oh, and I didn't have Nike wrong. It was developed for bombers, but adapted for missiles. The Nike Hercules was adapted to be able to hit cruise missiles.

[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

I'm fine with arguing, but you're not allowed to deny historical reality. Or physics.

525 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:30:11am

No current missile defense technology is going stop a Topol-M:

According to Russia the missile is designed to be immune to any current or planned U.S. missile defense system.[19] It is claimed to be capable of making evasive maneuvers to avoid a kill by terminal phase interceptors, and carries targeting countermeasures and decoys. It is shielded against radiation, EMP, nuclear explosions at distances over 500 meters, and is designed to survive a hit from any laser technology.[20]

526 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:30:14am

re: #522 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Not entirely true...

[Link: www.mda.mil...]

I said 'working'.

527 CuriousLurker  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:30:27am

re: #519 Lidane

Things that make you go hmmm...

[Embedded content]

They're prolly at Sharia camp getting extra training on how to better conceal the covert distribution of halal turkeys. //

528 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:31:13am

I'm getting exciting for some Sharia Turkey this holiday season. Stuffed with falafel.

529 Kragar  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:31:19am

You knew this was coming:

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder Dean Chambers Launches Vote Fraud Website

Dean Chambers, the founder of UnSkewedPolls.com, launched a new website last week alleging that President Barack Obama did not legitimately carry Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Florida, but instead won those states thanks to voter fraud.

530 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:31:55am

Rockets' Red Glare - by Yousaf Butt | Foreign Policy

In fact, the CIA's own top specialist in strategic nuclear programs testified in 2000 that "[m]any countries, such as North Korea [and] Iran ... probably would rely initially on readily available technology ... to develop penetration aids and countermeasures. These countries could develop countermeasures based on these technologies by the time they flight test their missiles."

Unfortunately, warnings of such fatal weaknesses were not heeded in designing the NATO missile defense system. Now, two government-sponsored scientific studies have shown that the missile defense system being planned to protect the United States and Europe is fundamentally flawed and will not work under combat conditions. As Philip Coyle, who was associate director for national security and international affairs in the Obama administration's Office of Science and Technology Policy, recently put it, the program is "chasing scientific dead ends, unworkable concepts and a flawed overall architecture."

531 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:33:07am

re: #529 Kragar

You knew this was coming:

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder Dean Chambers Launches Vote Fraud Website

I was directed to the site by the Frum blog. Do Not Touch A Button. Hitting one of his gave me a blast of heavy gay and straight porn. The place is probably badly infected. (Did I mention I love Linux?)

532 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:33:12am

re: #529 Kragar

You knew this was coming:

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder Dean Chambers Launches Vote Fraud Website

Just trying to bilk some more cash out of gullible wingnuts.

533 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:33:34am

re: #530 Charles Johnson

Good article, but more important; Yousaf Butt. Grade school must have been hell.

534 erik_t  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:35:24am

re: #525 goddamnedfrank

No current missile defense technology is going stop a Topol-M:

Um... without taking sides, I do wish to observe that the Russians are liable to claim very nice things about their weapons systems.

535 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:35:44am

re: #525 goddamnedfrank

No current missile defense technology is going stop a Topol-M:

The Russians say many things that aren't true, Frank. They spent the whole of the 1980's claiming that their MiG-29 could defeat the US F-15 Eagle, but every engagement between the two types has ended in a lopsided victory for the F-15.

536 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:35:52am

re: #516 Obdicut

What are you talking about? We don't have a working ICBM interception system. Why are you trying to claim we do?

Oh? Not so. Alaska, It can stop one or two. it is officially in service. I hope we get more of them. It's called the EKV.

Current counter-ICBM systems

There are only two systems in the world that can intercept ICBMs. Besides them, many smaller systems exist (tactical ABMs), that generally cannot intercept intercontinental strategic missiles, even if within range—an incoming ICBM simply moves too fast for these systems.

The Russian A-35 anti-ballistic missile system for defense of Moscow was established in 1971, has been improved since, and is still active. Presently it is called A-135 and it uses two missile types, Gorgon and Gazelle. They are both armed with nuclear warheads.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
The U.S. Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD; previously known as National Missile Defense – NMD) system has recently reached initial operational capability. Instead of using an explosive charge, it launches a kinetic projectile. The George W. Bush administration accelerated development and deployment of a system proposed in 1998 by the Clinton administration. The system is a dual purpose test and interception facility in Alaska, and in 2006 was operational with a few interceptor missiles. The Alaska site provides more protection against North Korean missiles or launches from Russia or China, but is likely less effective against missiles launched from the Middle East. President Bush referenced the 9/11 attacks and the proliferation of ballistic missiles as reasons for missile defense. The current GMD system has the more limited goal of shielding against a limited attack by a rogue state.

537 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:36:09am

re: #464 wrenchwench

They were going to use pies? You're right, that would never work! Also: I wouldn't trust this guy.

*Throws antimatter pie*

538 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:37:13am

re: #531 Decatur Deb

I was directed to the site by the Frum blog. Do Not Touch A Button. Hitting one of his gave me a blast of heavy gay and straight porn. The place is probably badly infected. (Did I mention I love Linux?)

The gay porn dump has been added to allow closeted evangelicals to perform their 'research'.

539 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:37:53am

re: #529 Kragar

You knew this was coming:

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder Dean Chambers Launches Vote Fraud Website

Someone needs to ask Mr. Chambers if the Republican Governors and Secretarys of State of the four states (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia) were all part of this "vote-fraud conspiracy" that he's claiming.

540 erik_t  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:38:15am

re: #535 Dark_Falcon

The Russians say many things that aren't true, Frank. They spent the whole of the 1980's claiming that their MiG-29 could defeat the US F-15 Eagle, but every engagement between the two types has ended in a lopsided victory for the F-15.

All of these engagements have also been against middle eastern pilots from air forces whose training regimens could charitably be described as 'naive'.

Perspective should be maintained.

541 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:38:38am

SDI against ICBM attacks is rather pointless.
All it takes is for a MIRVed ICBM to get through.

542 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:39:29am

re: #517 Obdicut

Sure. So is the concept of floating orbital colonies of sheep to get in the way of the ICBMs.

Let's fund that. I bet we get awesome research from that and, hey, space wool.

Have the French made that much progress with ovine aviation? If so, moving on to low orbit follow-on technologies would make sense.
;)

543 erik_t  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:40:06am

re: #541 Varek Raith

SDI against ICBM attacks is rather pointless.
All it takes is for a MIRVed ICBM to get through.

All current systems intercept the reentry vehicle, so you're now simply talking about more interceptors being required. Treating it as a rock/paper/scissors matter is nonsensical.

544 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:41:00am

re: #536 Daniel Ballard

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

545 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:41:13am

re: #534 erik_t

Um... without taking sides, I do wish to observe that the Russians are liable to claim very nice things about their weapons systems.

Nobody in the Pentagon is dismissing the claims. Because the technology to do it is trivial. All they did was harden the warhead, put thrusters on it for inbound phase maneuverability and give it a mirror polish.

Keep in mind these are the same people who figured out decades ago how to make a supercavitating torpedo.

Trivial. And that's the problem, it's always going to be massively easier to defeat advances in anti-missile technology than to develop them.

546 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:42:10am

Throw enough ICBMs in the air and some will get through.
One getting through is one too many.

547 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:42:30am

re: #540 erik_t

All of these engagements have also been against middle eastern pilots from air forces whose training regimens could charitably be described as 'naive'.

Perspective should be maintained.

Not true. Some of them in 1999 were against Mig-29 flown by Serbian pilots, who were both better educated and trained than their Syrian and Iraqi counterparts.

548 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:42:36am

re: #545 goddamnedfrank

And unfortunately, by their nature, tests of intercept systems are incredibly visible, and so countermeasures are easy to develop.

549 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:43:01am

re: #539 RadicalModerate

Someone needs to ask Mr. Chambers if the Republican Governors and Secretarys of State of the four states (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia) were all part of this "vote-fraud conspiracy" that he's claiming.

They were attempting to suppress it in advance.
///

550 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:43:43am

re: #544 Obdicut

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

With the option to arm the thing with a ~25 kiloton warhead...
Yeah, nuclear anti-missile missiles FTW!
/

551 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:43:55am

re: #530 Charles Johnson

I hate to argue with such a good host as yourself. The CIA has one view, fair enough. Several Presidents including Clinton and Obama conclude it's worth continuing the work. I agree with them. Conclusions vary, technology moves ahead making the formerly impossible merely difficult then one day routine.

552 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:45:28am

re: #541 Varek Raith

Without getting into this pissing contest, I'll just surmise that if it ever comes down to actually needing these types of defense...who gives a damn. The world will be utterly screwed anyway if it comes to everybody lobbing nuclear missiles at each other.

Might as well have the school children hide under their desks while we're at it.

553 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:45:40am

re: #548 Obdicut

And unfortunately, by their nature, tests of intercept systems are incredibly visible, and so countermeasures are easy to develop.

but a decent counter can still have a strong impact, if only by forcing the enemy to throw far more missiles at a given target in order to ensure a kill.

It's ultimately not good for an enemy with thousands of missiles who aims to annihilate you, but against a foe with 100 missiles, interceptors might prove very useful indeed.

554 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:45:46am

re: #545 goddamnedfrank

Nobody in the Pentagon is dismissing the claims. Because the technology to do it is trivial. All they did was harden the warhead, put thrusters on it for inbound phase maneuverability and give it a mirror polish.

Keep in mind these are the same people who figured out decades ago how to make a supercavitating torpedo.

Trivial. And that's the problem, it's always going to be massively easier to defeat advances in anti-missile technology than to develop them.

Interesting tech. And not a fun propellant mix to keep and maintain on a submarine.

555 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:46:52am

re: #546 Varek Raith

Fewer is not better?

556 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:48:52am

Poland Thwarts Terror Attack on Top Leaders

A Polish university researcher driven by nationalistic and anti-Semitic hatred was arrested for planning to detonate a four-ton bomb in front of the Parliament building in Warsaw with the president, prime minister, government ministers and lawmakers inside, authorities said Tuesday.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the suspect and his plot were discovered as investigators looked into Polish links to the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Polish security officials have said that Breivik bought small amounts of material for his bomb-making in Poland.

The foiled attack comes as the far-right movement appears to be growing in Poland, and as tensions simmer between Tusk's center-right government and its main rival, the conservative Law and Justice party led by Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

557 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:50:03am

re: #553 Dark_Falcon

but a decent counter can still have a strong impact, if only by forcing the enemy to throw far more missiles at a given target in order to ensure a kill.

It's ultimately not good for an enemy with thousands of missiles who aims to annihilate you, but against a foe with 100 missiles, interceptors might prove very useful indeed.

No, they wouldn't. Anyone who's building 100 missiles will build them with countermeasure tech that can defeat your current level of sophistication. The only possible way that wouldn't happen is if we were able to develop countermeasure technology in secret, and that is basically impossible. Maybe once we can fly out behind the dark side of the moon.

I don't get why this is such a lodestone for armamentophiles. Is it a holdover from the terror of the Cold War? I remember being scared of nuclear war and I remember SDI seeming like a soothing idea.

Okay, SDI will work if we're attacked by incredibly stupid enemies, everything happens to be working exactly right that day, and they launch an ICBM at us rather than bringing it in on board a cargo ship or ocean liner or whatever and setting it off in the harbor. As long as everything goes right and our enemies are blithering idiots, we have about a 50% chance of success.

Yay?

558 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:50:15am

re: #544 Obdicut

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

50% is a work in progress.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

The Nike Mission

During the first decade of the Cold War, the Soviet Union began to develop a series of long-range bomber aircraft, capable of reaching targets within the continental United States. The potential threat posed by such aircraft became much more serious when, in 1949, the Russians exploded their first atomic bomb.

The perception that the Soviet Union might be capable of constructing a sizable fleet of long-range, nuclear-armed bomber aircraft capable of reaching the continental United States provided motivation to rapidly develop and deploy the Nike system to defend major U.S. population centers and other vital targets. The outbreak of hostilities in Korea, provided a further impetus to this deployment.

The mission of Nike within the continental U.S was to act as a "last ditch" line of air defense for selected areas. The Nike system would have been utilized in the event that the Air Force's long-range fighter-interceptor aircraft had failed to destroy any attacking bombers at a greater distance from their intended targets.

559 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:52:17am

re: #558 Daniel Ballard

50% is a work in progress.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

Did you seriously just not fucking read that? You are starting to piss me off and I never get pissed off.

Work on a successor to the first Nike missile, the Nike Ajax, was initiated well before the first Ajax missiles were deployed at tactical sites across the nation. Two major considerations drove the development of the this second-generation Nike missile. The first was a requirement to produce a missile with improved speed, range and altitude capabilities to defend against a new generation of faster and smaller aerial targets, in particular, supersonic aircraft and cruise missiles. The second requirement was the desire to arm this new missile with a powerful atomic warhead to ensure destruction of the target aircraft and the destruction of disabling of any nuclear weapons it carried.

560 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:52:40am

re: #555 Daniel Ballard

Fewer is not better?

We ain't talking about mortars here.
We're talking about multi-megaton warheads. The damage inflicted by just one will be a catastrophic and possibly unrecoverable event. And with a 50% interception success rate at optimal conditions, the USA would cease to exist.

561 sagehen  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:52:59am

re: #527 CuriousLurker

They're prolly at Sharia camp getting extra training on how to better conceal the covert distribution of halal turkeys. //

President Bartlett calls the Butterball Hotline:

562 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:53:13am

re: #554 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Interesting tech. And not a fun propellant mix to keep and maintain on a submarine.

No, indeed. Hydrogen peroxide proved very dangerous when nations tried to use it as fuel in order to produce Air-Independant Propulsion (AIP) systems for submarines. It reminds me even more of the volatile propellents used in the WWII German Me-163 Komet.

563 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:53:48am

If an ICBM interceptor is 50% successful, that means it's a total failure.

564 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:54:22am

re: #563 Charles Johnson

If an ICBM interceptor is 50% successful, that means it's a total failure.

Not if you launch two of them per attacking missile.

565 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:54:44am

re: #558 Daniel Ballard

50% is a work in progress.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

It was also for missiles:

The Nike-Hercules system, a follow-up to the Nike-Ajax missile, was developed during the Cold War to destroy enemy bombers and enemy bomber formations, as well as serve as an anti-ballistic missile system.

566 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:56:07am

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

That 50% is not an aggregate number. If they only succeeded 25% of the time, launching 4 would not guarantee success. Come on.

567 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:56:44am

re: #551 Daniel Ballard

I hate to argue with such a good host as yourself. The CIA has one view, fair enough. Several Presidents including Clinton and Obama conclude it's worth continuing the work. I agree with them. Conclusions vary, technology moves ahead making the formerly impossible merely difficult then one day routine.

They are keeping some aspects of it going, as even with failure in practice there are things that can be learned, and applied to other areas.
That being said, there were SDI concepts (I'm looking at you, satellite-based missile defense systems) that current technology is both too costly and too unreliable, both in its own failure rate, as well as easily countermeasured to even be considered for anything beyond prototyping, much less mass-deployment.

568 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:56:50am

re: #511 Obdicut

And the concept of intercepting ICBMs in mass numbers is impossible.

Then it seems like you don't understand the concepts. It's like saying that developing skill hitting a baseball makes you better at hockey because they both involve hitting things with sticks.

And using your same analogy, to defeat that hitter you just throw 50 dud balls at the batter at once with only one or two real balls. Star Wars tech is VERY easy to defeat. ICBMs are very fast to get to traveling velocity, making them hard to get in that short time before hitting cruising trajectory. At cruise trajectory they can deploy very cheap decoys to confuse the SDI system. So that kinda leaves the terminal dive to the target to hopefully get the missile, namely one chance.

569 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:57:07am

re: #565 goddamnedfrank

Shit, it also was a surface-to-surface platform. Swiss army knife of missiles.

570 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:58:43am

The Nike-Hercules was a AA and SA missile that was primarily armed with a nuclear warhead. Few were armed with HE warheads.

571 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 11:59:47am

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

Not if you launch two of them per attacking missile.

Then you're only up to 75%.

You do understand that 2 X 50% doesn't equal a probability of 100%, right? Coin flips don't have memory.

572 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:01:27pm

re: #529 Kragar

You knew this was coming:

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder Dean Chambers Launches Vote Fraud Website

When being devastatingly wrong once a year just isn't enough.

573 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:01:54pm

re: #538 Dark_Falcon

The gay porn dump has been added to allow closeted evangelicals to perform their 'research'.

And in keeping with the theme, it's unskewed porn.
/

574 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:02:26pm

re: #571 goddamnedfrank

Then you're only up to 75%.

You do understand that 2 X 50% doesn't equal a probability of 100%, right? Coin flips don't have memory.

And these are tests being done with significant thumbs on the scale in favor of the interceptors.

575 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:05:10pm

re: #571 goddamnedfrank

Then you're only up to 75%.

You do understand that 2 X 50% doesn't equal a probability of 100%, right? Coin flips don't have memory.

Yeah, I know. But 75% isn't a 'total failure'.

[heading upstairs]

576 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:05:41pm

re: #546 Varek Raith

Throw enough ICBMs in the air and some will get through.
One getting through is one too many.

Don't even have to be armed ICBMs. Cheap duds will keep the whole system busy until the real warhead goes off as intended.

577 Neutral President  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:07:50pm

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

Not if you launch two of them per attacking missile.

Statistically, that would mean only a 75% chance of success.

578 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:09:05pm

re: #577 Neutral President

Statistically, that would mean only a 75% chance of success.

And that's only if a failure doesn't represent a failure that'll affect the second launch too, like a sensor failure.

579 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:10:47pm

re: #574 Obdicut

re: #560 Varek Raith

Lets say we intercept one of two. One aimed at LA one at Sand Diego. Ask the survivors in the city that still stands. Better yet say it takes even six or eight EKV's to take out two warheads.

What is wrong with that picture?

And Obdi, did you not question the existence of the EKV entirely above? Now that you know it exists we get to the real point. It's not good enough. To that I say not yet.

580 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:11:58pm

re: #559 Obdicut

You equated cruise missiles with ICBM? Nice dodge almost as good as the new Russian warheads.

581 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:13:10pm

re: #559 Obdicut

Want to be less pissed? Quit badgering & with denials about the Alaskan system and moving goal posts.

Sheesh GTG work to do

582 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:15:59pm

re: #580 Daniel Ballard

You equated cruise missiles with ICBM? Nice dodge almost as good as the new Russian warheads.

What I like about this is not that it's a lie-- which it is-- but that you're beclowning your own argument here. You're mocking the idea that cruise missiles are like ICBMs, and yet claiming anti-ICBM technology is useful in shooting down conventional missiles. It's one of the best self-ownings I've seen in a long time.

For the record, this is what I said:

SDI did not start the concept of anti-missile defense. That was Project Nike.

Notice I didn't say ICBMs, because I didn't mean ICBMs. I said what I meant: Project Nike started the idea of anti-missile defense. If you want to get really, really, really particular, the British fooled around with stuff to try to intercept V1s and V2s, but it didn't really get anywhere.

But do you understand how, in your attempt to accuse me of spinning, you just destroyed your own argument by mocking the idea of cruise missiles and ICBMs being similar?

583 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:16:28pm

re: #579 Daniel Ballard

I never questioned the existence of non-working white elephant ICBM interception systems, no.

584 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 12:33:09pm

re: #565 goddamnedfrank

It was also for missiles:

My dad help install Nike Hercules missiles in Korea in the Cold War digging trenches In the ground, pointed at China.

585 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 1:43:10pm

re: #565 goddamnedfrank

It was also for missiles:

Uh huh. In their dreams maybe. The big target was bombers. Everything else was wishful thinking, unlike today.

Deactivation

When it became apparent that the greatest threat to US National defense was from missiles instead of bombers, most Nike-Hercules units were deactivated

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


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