Good News From the GOP’s War on Science: Textbook Publishers Resisting Pressure From Texas Creationists

The idiots are losing
Wingnuts • Views: 39,104

Some good news from the Republican War on Science: the major publishers are resisting pressure from creationists on the Texas State Board of Education to include religious right nonsense about climate change and evolution in science textbooks:

We have now had our first look at changes publishers have submitted in response to objections — many of them attacks on evolution and climate change science — raised by official state review teams evaluating new science textbooks for Texas. And we have very encouraging news:

All 14 publishers are refusing to water down or compromise instruction on evolution and climate change in their proposed new high school biology textbooks.

These publishers deserve our thanks for standing up to pressure from right-wing politicians and activists working to corrupt the science in our children’s textbooks.

But this battle isn’t over yet. The State Board of Education still must vote to adopt these new textbooks and other instructional materials, which will be in classrooms for up to a decade. In past years, ideologues on the state board have refused to adopt textbooks simply because they have political objections to factual content. So in the weeks leading up to the state board’s final vote on November 22, it’s important that we keep fighting to prevent right-wing politicians from putting their personal agendas ahead of the education of millions of Texas kids.

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267 comments
1 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:13:31pm

The thank you link says site not found.

2 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:14:13pm

That’s refreshing. Respect for the truth of the matter. That’s exactly what we need.

3 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:14:51pm

About fucking time.

4 Youse  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:15:38pm

Principles. Finally.

5 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:15:44pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

Better than the crock o’ stupid “fact checkers” who pretend to care.

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:17:35pm

re: #1 Kragar

The thank you link says site not found.

Hmm, right. Seems like the link only works from the TFN site.

7 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:17:43pm

re: #5 William Barnett-Lewis

I think Charles just made my point from down stairs better than I did by far.

8 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:20:33pm

Later,

lizards.

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:22:37pm

Let’s see if the link works in a comment:

secure2.convio.net

10 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:23:22pm

Nope. Must be checking the referrer for some reason. Works OK if you copy and paste the URL in a new window.

11 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:23:43pm

Thank the publishers!

Click here to add your name to a “thank you” email to publishers. tfninsider.org

Although Texas school boards with an agenda will probably get Regnery or someother RW publishers to do the job those with ethics won’t do. I wouldn’t doubt it one bit.

12 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:25:47pm

re: #7 Political Atheist

I think Charles just made my point from down stairs better than I did by far.

I almost jumped in there but then saw this post and chose to make my feelings known here instead.

13 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:26:17pm

re: #11 Justanotherhuman

Thank the publishers!

secure2.convio.net

I originally posted that link but it looks like it only works if you click from the TFN site, or copy/paste it on the address line in a new window.

14 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:28:59pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

I originally posted that link but it looks like it only works if you click from the TFN site, or copy/paste it on the address line in a new window.

Yeah, that’s why I edited my comment. : ) I think people will get it.

15 b.d.  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:29:12pm

Don’t dare call them racists

16 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:31:40pm

re: #15 b.d.

I just had a horrible vision of the GOP house delegation doing this, along with a full-blown minstrel act o_O

17 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:31:57pm

Many of these publishers also provide texts for post-secondary use. Watering down their elementary and secondary schools texts would harm their reputation among universities (and non-crazy state school boards), and in the end cost them money. Besides, what reputable science text publisher would want to associated with creationism and Intelligent Design, neither of which are scientifically credible — or even science — no matter how many RWNJs believe they are.

Ideologues sooner or later have to learn that they can’t tell the rest of the world to believe the same things they do.

18 kirkspencer  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 6:55:11pm

re: #4 nines09

Principles. Finally.

Might not be principles. Might be - and in fact I’d guess it more likely to be - about money.

The reason Texas is so big for the publishers is that they’re a single large market. And in the past what Texas wanted was within a standard deviation (to mangle a term) of what other states wanted. It was close enough that the other states grumbled but purchased the books that were slanted the Texas way.

But that’s only as long as it’s “close enough”. Go too far and it’s “no.” And while Texas is the largest (or second largest, depending on the California purchase that year) customer, it’s not going to guarantee profitability all by itself. If Texas says yes and 35 other states say ‘no’ then the publishers lose money. If Texas says no and 35 other states say ‘yes’ and some of the remaining southern-but-not-as-bad states say ‘close enough’ then the publishers stay in business.

Texas is the biggest but the publishers can’t afford Texas being the only. And that makes it money, not principle.

20 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:25:14pm

re: #19 Vicious Babushka

Dick Cheney was afraid hackers would hack his pacemaker and kill him.

Could Terrorists Have Hacked Dick Cheney’s ICD?

I asked three experienced electrophysiologists- the cardiologists who implant ICDs- whether this was a realistic concern. The short answer is that this has never happened in the real world but that it’s impossible to rule out the possibility. So perhaps Cheney and his doctors weren’t paranoid, just excessively careful.

21 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:27:18pm

re: #19 Vicious Babushka

Dick Cheney was afraid hackers would hack his pacemaker and kill him.

Why would they do that, he was one of the best recruiting tools the terrorists ever had. I could see the CIA being pretty pissed off at him, for his role in outing Valerie Plame and fucking up counter proliferation efforts, but they’d never assassinate a VP.

Anyway all this shit does is needlessly drive up stress and paranoia in ordinary pacemaker patients. Possibly cause them to have their wireless update functions disabled, and it’s an important tool for cardiologists to fine tune the device to the patient. Without it dangerous invasive surgery is the only option.

22 Bear  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:32:45pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Wonder about the police radar guns? And now with so many pleasure boats having radar if someone walking along a small boat harbor could be at risk o having the pacemaker zapped. One o my friends is an avid boater and has a pacemaker.

23 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:39:44pm

Good Evening Lizards.. Dang.. It’s a Saturday night and I’m on-line? Lame! LOL Just a nice evening watching TV with Winston. We are watching Alaska State Troopers on NatGeo..That has become one of my Favs this year..It is a secret pleasure and joy. Reminds me of my good friend Alan who was a policeman. God love him. He passed about 4 years ago on Memorial day.
You know how Charles never lets anyone post personal information here? He was so gracious to allow me to post his orbit here and where you could send donations in his memory.. Alan was my friend and I had never been to a police and firemen funeral before. Boy was it a big affair…Charles.. Thank you for that..I was hurting pretty bad when we lost him.
OK..Well Shit.. Back to watching the Troopers bust somebody in Alaska!

24 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:41:23pm

re: #22 Bear

Wonder about the police radar guns? And now with so many pleasure boats having radar if someone walking along a small boat harbor could be at risk o having the pacemaker zapped. One o my friends is an avid boater and has a pacemaker.

Modern pacemakers are built to withstand at least a million times the occupational limit for radar energy exposure in W/m^2. Hasn’t been a problem for decades. Think about the size of the radar domes they have on cruise ships, now think about the age demographics of the average cruise ship passenger.

25 Bear  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:43:39pm

re: #24 goddamnedfrank

Those antenna are way above the deck.

26 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:44:23pm

re: #22 Bear

Wonder about the police radar guns? And now with so many pleasure boats having radar if someone walking along a small boat harbor could be at risk o having the pacemaker zapped. One o my friends is an avid boater and has a pacemaker.

Guessing from the article but I think accidental/random messing with it is astronomically improbable. It operates by coding, it seems they have updated the technology today to include extra safety protocol to prevent people being malicious.

27 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:44:59pm

re: #23 HoosierHoops

Greetings from SoCal dude! Sounds like a good evening to me.

28 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:52:22pm

re: #25 Bear

Those antenna are way above the deck.

You can usually walk to within 10 or 20 feet of them. There’s a curved painted line demarcating the no go zone around each emitter, and those emitters are huge.

There are probably a few super high flux and voltage industrial situations that someone with a pacemaker shouldn’t work around, like an aluminum smelter being switched on.

29 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:56:31pm

re: #27 Political Atheist

Greetings from SoCal dude! Sounds like a good evening to me.

Hi You! Hope today finds you well…I’m trying to talk Winston into getting off my lap and fix me a drink..Damn he is one lazy dog..
/Nice chatting with you at our friends beach house…I hate you tonight..you know that..I hate you… :)

30 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:57:24pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Watching the Indy champ race?

31 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 7:59:12pm

re: #30 Political Atheist

Watching the Indy champ race?

Oh Crap! I forgot! Thanks

32 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:05:14pm

re: #15 b.d.

Don’t dare call them racists

[Embedded content]

Actually…
Nevermind.
Proceed.

33 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:19:14pm

On the Y2K episode of The Simpsons, Krusty the Klown’s pacemaker gets stuck on ‘hummingbird’.

I do wonder whether Cheney did this because he had access to info from the CIA that they knew how to do it…

34 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:25:43pm

re: #15 b.d.

Don’t dare call them racists

[Embedded content]

Hey, wouldn’t it be a hoot to burn a cross on the White House lawn? It’d make them go nuts!!!!

35 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:36:36pm

Good night all. Here’s a delight for you…

Youtube Video

36 freetoken  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:47:32pm

Speaking of science, I’ve been spending quite a bit of time reading up on some practical genetics/genomics, and how it applies to health and genealogy and evolution and such.

As I look at how various companies’ products are being received by our society, from DTC genetic testing to medicine, it is really clear that we’ve got a long way to go for the general populace to be able to deal with all this information.

First up is the scaremongering, which is around every corner. There is a cottage industry out there that peddles that we should be afraid of anything “genetic”.

Secondly, genetics can easily unveil long held secrets, such as adoptions and the dreaded non-paternity event (i.e., where the biological father doesn’t claim paternity.) This scares people too.

Finding out one might have African American ancestors - I wonder what that does to the VDARE crowd?

Time is of the essence, and as I grow older I realize that time not invested in bettering myself (in whatever fashion) or others is time wasted. I think of the billions of hours Americans spend getting programed week by week sitting in pews (and yes, I fully realize that there is benefit in some moral teachings, at least in some religious communities.)

Every hour a kid sits in a pew being taught that the world is 6000 years old is an hour destroying that young person’s life to better understand the world. There’s a big difference in spending an hour being taught “don’t murder others” vs. spending an hour being taught “all the scientists in the world are lying to you.” The two types of teachings are not equivalent and I don’t mean to confuse the two types of indoctrination.

So yes, I am stating that there is a causal connection between our society’s inability to handle genetics in all its applications and the religious indoctrination in which so much of America participates.

37 freetoken  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 8:52:54pm

re: #33 GeneJockey

MP3 Audio

38 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 9:28:44pm

How do you know it’s a Saturday night at LGF? The place is a ghost town before midnight.

39 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 9:31:32pm

re: #38 Targetpractice

How do you know it’s a Saturday night at LGF? The place is a ghost town before midnight.

Youtube Video

40 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 9:46:48pm

re: #36 freetoken

Speaking of science, I’ve been spending quite a bit of time reading up on some practical genetics/genomics, and how it applies to health and genealogy and evolution and such.

As I look at how various companies’ products are being received by our society, from DTC genetic testing to medicine, it is really clear that we’ve got a long way to go for the general populace to be able to deal with all this information.

First up is the scaremongering, which is around every corner. There is a cottage industry out there that peddles that we should be afraid of anything “genetic”.

Secondly, genetics can easily unveil long held secrets, such as adoptions and the dreaded non-paternity event (i.e., where the biological father doesn’t claim paternity.) This scares people too.

Finding out one might have African American ancestors - I wonder what that does to the VDARE crowd?

Time is of the essence, and as I grow older I realize that time not invested in bettering myself (in whatever fashion) or others is time wasted. I think of the billions of hours Americans spend getting programed week by week sitting in pews (and yes, I fully realize that there is benefit in some moral teachings, at least in some religious communities.)

Every hour a kid sits in a pew being taught that the world is 6000 years old is an hour destroying that young person’s life to better understand the world. There’s a big difference in spending an hour being taught “don’t murder others” vs. spending an hour being taught “all the scientists in the world are lying to you.” The two types of teachings are not equivalent and I don’t mean to confuse the two types of indoctrination.

So yes, I am stating that there is a causal connection between our society’s inability to handle genetics in all its applications and the religious indoctrination in which so much of America participates.

You’re oversimplifying, though I agree there is some connection between the belief in or discussion of Genesis and the general inability to understand genetics. Whether or not you believe in a six-day Creation, an underlying part of our culture is the Adam-and-Eve myth, and the Noah myth. These myths get in the way of understanding scientific conclusions about how our species has developed. For instance, the unfortunate terms “mitochondrial Eve” and “chromosomal Adam” suggest that millions of years ago there really were two human progenitors who hooked up and spawned the human species. Meanwhile, the Noah myth lends itself to facile explanations for the physical differences among Africans, Asians, European and so forth. These ideas are an endemic part of our culture, and for many people hard to shed, regardless of religious belief.

Racism is another contributing factor, as some people are predisposed to assume non-whites (except Asians, who are really good at math /snark) are less intelligent and/or less “civilized” than whites. Rather than seeing skin color as merely a physical difference, like hair or eye color, racists try to find causal connections between skin color and cultural or social achievements. For them, genetics (aka race) “explains” lower IQ test scores among African-Americans, for example. They misuse genetics to support prejudice.

Family origins are a sensitive topic for some people. The Melungeon population, for example, has maintained for two centuries or more that their typically dark complexions, eyes and hair result from Portuguese or Native American ancestry. In fact, genetic testing has indicated their ancestry is undoubtedly partly African — a bit problematic since most live in the Southeastern part of the USA, where the “single drop of blood” rule applied for so long.

Genetics is the new scary science, like nuclear physics and radiation were back in the 1950s. DNA testing and gene manipulation have developed so quickly in the last two decades that most people can’t keep up. Hell, I have a background in physics and consider myself scientifically literate, and I have trouble following the discussions relating to my Y-DNA group.

41 freetoken  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:00:23pm

re: #40 wheat-dogghazi

Since you have a background in physics you’ll appreciate this:

The problem with so much of the exercise of sitting in the pew and being indoctrinated is not just the “facts” that are alleged - such as Adam, Eve, Noah, and so forth. We learn more than facts - we learn thinking processes too. Creationists teaching children about Adam and Eve are not just teaching about Adam and Eve, but also mentoring their students in how to approach life, in this case by not questioning authority.

As a physics professor used to tell me, he was there not to teach us facts but to teach us how to think.

Sitting in a pew and being indoctrinated is a way of shaping thought, to make the paradigm of authority ➯ truth take root in the young mind, and through repetition over decades to make it the central process in the fundamentalist way of looking at all of life.

However, modern society has been built from the expansion of human knowledge, and this resulted from questioning in new ways old beliefs. Knowing how to formulate a new question, how to examine a previously stated “fact” to discover some new element that may disprove it, or which uncovers new data, is at the heart of science and the modern world. This was not unique to the early heralds of modernity in the West (e.g., Copernicus, Galileo) but the explosion of this way of looking at the world certainly in that time in Europe was the big turning point to get us to where we are today.

This is the war of the worldviews in which we are now engaged.

42 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:11:13pm

“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”

- Thomas Aquinas

So many religious people have forgotten this.

43 ausador  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:13:48pm

Oww…my poor brain cells…

Atheists: Why do you believe in science?
1. Lets imagine that through the Earth there is some unknown energetic area. Some scientific experiment is made 1000 times, and it always shows same results. But, then, that energetic area which is through the Earth disappears, and the same scientific experiment now shows completely different results.
2. Lets imagine that we see the atoms of some stone through some very powerful microscope. We see the atoms in one part of that stone. Maybe other parts of that stone is not composed of atoms ? And, even if we see the atoms through the whole stone, maybe that stone, after 5 minutes will not be composed of atoms ?
And, the Bible is full with miracles, with hundreds of witnesses.
Why the atheists believe in science, but not in God ?

Link

Sigh…I just can’t…honestly, WTF?

44 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:15:28pm

re: #43 ausador

Oww…my poor brain cells…

Link

Sigh…I just can’t…honestly, WTF?

I could actually feel brain cells dying.

45 ausador  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:16:21pm

re: #43 ausador

See, see?
This is the kind of magical thinking/pseudo logic bullshit we are up against!

46 piratedan  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:16:22pm

re: #43 ausador

Oww…my poor brain cells…

Link

Sigh…I just can’t…honestly, WTF?

and close your eyes and imagine monkeys flying out of my ass…… there’s a tingling in my ass cheeks….. ////

47 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:19:59pm

“Beware of the person of one book.”

“A man has free choice to the extent that he is rational.”

“Most men seem to live according to sense rather than reason.”

48 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:20:08pm

re: #41 freetoken

Since you have a background in physics you’ll appreciate this:

The problem with so much of the exercise of sitting in the pew and being indoctrinated is not just the “facts” that are alleged - such as Adam, Eve, Noah, and so forth. We learn more than facts - we learn thinking processes too. Creationists teaching children about Adam and Eve are not just teaching about Adam and Eve, but also mentoring their students in how to approach life, in this case by not questioning authority.

As a physics professor used to tell me, he was there not to teach us facts but to teach us how to think.

Sitting in a pew and being indoctrinated is a way of shaping thought, to make the paradigm of authority ➯ truth take root in the young mind, and through repetition over decades to make it the central process in the fundamentalist way of looking at all of life.

However, modern society has been built from the expansion of human knowledge, and this resulted from questioning in new ways old beliefs. Knowing how to formulate a new question, how to examine a previously stated “fact” to discover some new element that may disprove it, or which uncovers new data, is at the heart of science and the modern world. This was not unique to the early heralds of modernity in the West (e.g., Copernicus, Galileo) but the explosion of this way of looking at the world certainly in that time in Europe was the big turning point to get us to where we are today.

This is the war of the worldviews in which we are now engaged.

On this we agree. The RR thinks it would be just peachy keen if the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment never happened. Hell, they’re probably uneasy with the whole Gutenberg thing. Questioning faith, or the Bible/Quran/Torah is not something church leaders (or churches) are comfortable doing, especially with youngsters. The purpose of Sunday schools (and their Jewish and Muslim equivalents) is to keep the kids in the fold, by teaching the beliefs, doctrines and principles of the faith. Some of that is understandable, because elementary school pupils are not developmentally able to handle abstract ideas and ambiguity. It’s easier to tell them “just so” stories and (in non-extremist groups) get around to more nuanced discussions later in life. Of course, by that time, the kids have already bailed out, physically or mentally.

There is a sizable group of people who are just not secure enough to question authority, accept ambiguity, understand life is more than dichotomies between good and bad, God and Satan. They don’t want to think! They want someone to tell them what to do, what to believe and what to think. Science is mutable. New discoveries force us to accept new ideas, adapt our theories. For the religious, that’s like building your house on sand. They want a house built on rock, where they can be safe and feel secure, at least in some ways.

This is not just a problem among fundies, but common to most humans. Fundamentalists take it to an obstinate, reality-denying extreme, much as Galileo’s contemporaries accused him of playing tricks on them with his telescope. “Craters and mountains on the moon? Preposterous! Something is wrong with this instrument.”

49 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:21:01pm

re: #42 Kragar

“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”

- Thomas Aquinas

So many religious people have forgotten this.

They never learned it. Protestant fundies don’t read Satanist literature.
/ half

50 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:24:36pm

re: #49 wheat-dogghazi

They never learned it. Protestant fundies don’t read Satanist literature.
/ half

Oh, the Splitters again.
/

51 ausador  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:43:43pm

No way you can argue with this, proof positive that “Atheistic Origin Science” (evolution) is completely wrong…

When atheistic origin science gives dates, they seem to violate standard scientific practice. Real science gives a number and an error range. But atheistic origin science many times quotes a number without any error range. You will read things like 123 million years ago. Why the lack of an error range? What is the error range? How is that error range determined? This bad scientific practice shows that atheistic origin science is not real science.

To show why the real error range destroys atheistic origin science consider the following cases.

Case 1 - Determination of an intermediate species.

Ancestor 120 million years ago
Intermediate 115 million years ago
Descendant 110 million years ago

Seems straightforward. Now consider these same numbers with error ranges.

Ancestor 120 million years ago +- 10 million years
Intermediate 115 million years ago +- 10 million years
Descendant 110 million years ago +- 10 million years

Based on these numbers, then this could be the case.

Ancestor 113 million years ago
Intermediate 115 million years ago
Descendant 118 million years ago

That is the descendant came first, then the intermediate, then the ancestor. So that is now shown to be false.

Case 2 - determination of the rock layers

Top layer 100 million years
Middle layer 110 million years
Bottom layer 120 million years

Seems straightforward. Now consider these same numbers with error ranges.

Top layer 100 million years +- 10 million years
Middle layer 110 million years +- 10 million years
Bottom layer 120 million years +- 10 million years

Based on these numbers, then this could be the case.

Top layer 108 million years
Middle layer 118 million years
Bottom layer 112 million years

So the middle is the bottom and the bottom is the middle. That would be very hard to explain if these layers exist over a vast area.

Now combine the fossils in the out of order layers and ancestors are more recent than descendants. In fact the dates from case 1 and case 2 may conflict.

So the error ranges may put all the dates of the rock layers and fossil record in jeopardy.

What are the error ranges?

How are they determined?
Link

To think that I have believed in and supported the teaching of evolution for all these years and the proof that it is false could be so simply stated! How could I have been so wrong???

///

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:53:19pm

re: #51 ausador

No way you can argue with this, proof positive that “Atheistic Origin Science” (evolution) is completely wrong...anyone who believes their religion has a monopoly on revealed Truth.

FTFY

53 piratedan  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:55:47pm

re: #51 ausador

No way you can argue with this, proof positive that “Atheistic Origin Science” (evolution) is completely wrong…

To think that I have believed in and supported the teaching of evolution for all these years and the proof that it is false could be so simply stated! How could I have been so wrong???

///

what is scary is that you get sucked in to a supposedly plausible sounding argument and baselines. It’s all in the framing and these guys are great at framing. Like the Bible… okay, we have the KJV that is the “modern day standard”, problem is, the people that inhabited the region where the Bible takes place weren’t speaking English…. so what were they speaking? Hebrew? Aramaic? Hittite? Farsi? Greek? Say it was Hebrew… then was the gospel directly translated from Hebrew to English? Perhaps into Greek? Latin? German? all before we get to English and we have to accept that nothing got lost in translation along the way…..

54 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 10:58:55pm

re: #53 piratedan

what is scary is that you get sucked in to a supposedly plausible sounding argument and baselines. It’s all in the framing and these guys are great at framing. Like the Bible… okay, we have the KJV that is the “modern day standard”, problem is, the people that inhabited the region where the Bible takes place weren’t speaking English…. so what were they speaking? Hebrew? Aramaic? Hittite? Farsi? Greek? Say it was Hebrew… then was the gospel directly translated from Hebrew to English? Perhaps into Greek? Latin? German? all before we get to English and we have to accept that nothing got lost in translation along the way…..

They will tell you that the King James Translation was dictated directly by the Holy Spirit.

No point in trying to argue with anone who feels they have a monopoly on divine revealed Truth.

55 piratedan  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:01:42pm

re: #54 Sol Berdinowitz

They will tell you that the King James Translation was dictated directly by the Holy Spirit.

No point in trying to argue with anone who feels they have a monopoly on divine revealed Truth.

It’s why I don’t bother unless they’re insistent that their belief system is the only one that is taught/acceptable, as such, I get brought into conflict from time to time.

56 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:03:48pm

I love the people who think opposition to Obamacare gives them license to just blatantly lie.

No, I’m sorry, there’s simply no way in hell that your 60 year old Oxnard living ass was paying $60 per month for a zero deductible policy until the ACA chased your provider out of the state. Try to make your bullshit “anecdote” at least fit within the realm of plausibility, m’kay?

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:04:54pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

I love the people who think opposition to Obamacare gives them license to just blatantly lie.

Those who possess a Higher Truth (about God or ACA) do not feel constrained by mere facts.

58 sagehen  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:07:06pm

re: #53 piratedan

what is scary is that you get sucked in to a supposedly plausible sounding argument and baselines. It’s all in the framing and these guys are great at framing.

Let A=B

(I don’t know how to do superscript, assume that’s what the 2’s are in this line)
A2+AB = A2 + B2

A (A+B) = (A+B) (A-B)

A = A+B

A = 2A

1 = 2

59 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:09:49pm

re: #57 Sol Berdinowitz

Those who possess a Higher Truth (about God or ACA) do not feel constrianed by mere facts.

Well this guy just confirmed to all his faculty colleagues why he never became more and will never be more than an adjunct laughing stock. Really wish his dept. head and the administration cared more about the feedback students give, it’s not like MBA is a hard to fill specialty.

60 ausador  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:13:40pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

You will love (hate) this article then, I have named it…
Super Ultra Mega-Godwin!!!

Hitlercare vs. Obamacare

Since the founders of America’s republic understood that humanity is by nature anti-God, hypocritical and duplicitous, they created a system of checks and balances and limitations of government power because they realized someday a dictator like a Barack Obama would arise and seize power in the United States for himself by ignoring or deconstructing the U.S. Constitution. Since President Woodrow Wilson’s Socialist revolution of 1913 it seems that dishonest politicians and egotistical, corrupt judges have disregarded and circumvented the Constitution to such a degree as to render it now to be a deadletter.

Nazi Germany is the true birthplace, and Hitler is the real father of universal health care. Like Lenincare, Stalincare, Maocare, Castrocare and Obamacare, all universal health-care systems are derivative of Marxism, socialism, communism, progressivism, postmodernism and thus are antithetical to America’s founding constitutional principles of God, the Bible, natural law, equality, liberty and truth. Like Hitlercare, Obamacare will inevitably lead to health-care rationing, death panels, millions of uninsured and, eventually, the systematic genocide of the weak, minorities, enfeebled, the elderly and political enemies of the God-state.
Link

Seriously, read the rest of the article, I can’t begin to do it justice with just a short two paragraph quote. :(

61 piratedan  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:14:16pm

re: #58 sagehen

line 3 (a-b) is a value that returns 0 so that makes it wrong, true? or perhaps I need to retake 7th grade math

62 sagehen  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:16:26pm

re: #61 piratedan

line 3 (a-b) is a value that returns 0 so that makes it wrong, true? or perhaps I need to retake 7th grade math

It should have taken you more than a couple minutes to notice that. I haz a sad.

63 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:24:28pm

re: #60 ausador

You will love (hate) this article then, I have named it…
>Super Ultra Mega-Godwin!!!

Seriously, read the rest of the article, I can’t begin to do it justice with just a short two paragraph quote. :(

“Of course, I do not contend that Obama is Hitler, but if America foolishly adopt policies of national socialism, then we fail to learn from history the innumerable grotesqueries, inhumanity and genocide of previous nations who tried universal health care. To grant governments this god-like power over birth, life and death issues will be misused, not exactly as it was in Nazi Germany, nevertheless a tragedy for society”

So Obama is not Hitler, just his policies.

“God-like powers of life and death”: Those powers should be reserved for insurance companies, who, operating under God’s own Free Market, are best able to enact His Divine Will.

64 piratedan  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:24:36pm

re: #62 sagehen

glad (?) I could disappoint you but the thing is, most of us just accept it at face value or admit that we can’t be experts at everything and as such, don’t expect someone with the ethics/morals of a used car salesman to be arguing religion vs science with us. As Sol has mentioned, these people have FAITH which invalidates any reasoning you feel needs to be brought to the argument. Unless you’re talking about Jesus taking a bullet for you and I have a gun in my hand and if you’re faithful and you believe, and have already painted me as a filthy atheist with and we can put that faith to the test…. still, it’s amazing how outraged they get when they find out that I’m not prepared to die for their beliefs.

65 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:28:03pm

re: #58 sagehen

Let A=B

(I don’t know how to do superscript, assume that’s what the 2’s are in this line)
A2+AB = A2 + B2

Use the 

 <sup> tag before the exponent and close it with </sup>

Gives this:

A2+AB = A2 + B2

The other two, older non-html conventions for denoting exponents are to use either ** or ^ like this:

A**2+AB = A**2 + B**2

or this

A^2+AB = A^2 + B^2

66 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:35:09pm

A state legislator in Arizona tried pass a law making it illegal to force a student to learn anything that was contrary to their religious beliefs, an attempted end-run for creationism.

A local satirist came up with the following dialogue:

Teacher: What’s two plus two?
Billy: Five! My daddy taugh me two and two makes five!
Teacher: But it is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of objective reality!
Billy: My daddy doesn’t believe in objective reality!

There is no arguning with these folks, we can only try to limit the amount of damage they can spread.

67 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:38:14pm

re: #60 ausador

Since President Woodrow Wilson’s Socialist revolution of 1913

I missed this in my American history classes. Maybe I was absent that day.

Or is he referring to the federal income tax imposed by the 16th amendment? I guess Wilson was as much a tyrant as Obama is today.

68 Kragar  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:45:01pm

re: #67 wheat-dogghazi

I missed this in my American history classes. Maybe I was absent that day.

Or is he referring to the federal income tax imposed by the 16th amendment? I guess Wilson was as much a tyrant as Obama is today.

I get the feeling these people would have lynched Washington when he taxed whiskey.

69 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 19, 2013 11:50:40pm

re: #68 Kragar

I get the feeling these people would have lynched Washington when he taxed whiskey.

Imagine if those whisky rebels had semi-automatic weapons…

70 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:05:31am

re: #68 Kragar

I get the feeling these people would have lynched Washington when he taxed whiskey.

What gets me is their willful denial, or poor understanding, of how our government works. Wilson did not single-handedly add the 16th amendment to the Constitution. Obama did not single-handedly make the Affordable Care Act law. If they had, then there would be some justification in calling them tyrants or dictators. But in each case, the other branches of government were involved, independent of either Wilson or Obama.

Demonize the enemy, even if he happens to be duly elected president operating within Constitutional limits.

71 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:18:00am

re: #70 wheat-dogghazi

It’s not just willful denial, it’s willful hatred.

72 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:19:07am

re: #70 wheat-dogghazi

Demonize the enemy, even if he happens to be duly elected president operating within Constitutional limits.

Recall the central image of the Tea party: armed uprising aginst a tyrant and usurper.

Without a tyrant to rail against, their whole petty costume party falls apart.

73 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:29:14am

re: #71 freetoken

It’s not just willful denial, it’s willful hatred.

In Obama’s case, they hate him because he’s mixed race and has an exotic name that doesn’t sound “American.” As for Wilson, maybe they hate him because he was smart (Princeton graduate, former president of the school, even) and proposed the League of Nations. Who knows?

re: #72 Sol Berdinowitz

Recall the central image of the Tea party: armed uprising aginst a tyrant and usurper.

Without a tyrant to rail against, their whole petty costume party falls apart.

I suspect many of these people feel marginalized or live empty lives and need someone to blame or a group to belong to. They want to associate themselves with the early Christian martyrs and the American Revolutionaries (and probably the Confederacy), who all were in more dire circumstances than these armchair dissidents are now. They want a tyrant figure to give their lives meaning.

74 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:33:30am

re: #73 wheat-dogghazi

In Obama’s case, they hate him because he’s mixed race and has an exotic name that doesn’t sound “American.”

Careful with that generalization, it it allows them to come back with “You liberals think anyone opposed to Obama is racist”.

Which is not the case; there are plenty of valid grounds for criticism.

But when they start raving about a Kenyan Islamist fascist Manchurian candidate tyrant, it is a good sign that they are frothing-at-the-mouth racists.

75 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:39:09am

re: #74 Sol Berdinowitz

Careful with that generalization, it it allows them to come back with “You liberals think anyone opposed to Obama is racist”.

Which is not the case; there are plenty of valid grounds for criticism.

But when they start raving about a Kenyan Islamist manchurian candidate, it is a good sign that they are frothing-at-the-mouth racists.

There are plenty of KKKooks who call him the N word, or some modification thereof, and riff on his middle name as some sort of indication he’s a secret Muslim, and ineligible for the office. Clearly some of them are racists, and I don’t mind calling them out on it. Others just hate him because he’s a Democrat, or a Yankee. Different kind of prejudice at work there.

76 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:43:11am

Just don’t give ‘em an opening.

The worst one are the dog-whistlers. Newt G is the most refined at that. His comments about a “Kenyan world view” were a clear attempt to evoke visions of a Mau-Mau uprising against the whites in America.

77 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:49:21am

re: #74 Sol Berdinowitz

Careful with that generalization, it it allows them to come back with “You liberals think anyone opposed to Obama is racist”.

Which is not the case; there are plenty of valid grounds for criticism.

Sure, but objectively he’s the best President since Eisenhower or FDR. No other President in my lifetime has been handed a bigger pile of shit, or has produced equivalent percentage market gains. No President has faced a more dishonest opposition, no President has had to pull us out of two entrenched ground conflicts, and no other President has presided over an equivalent increase in US overseas popularity.

78 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:50:54am

I agree with most of that, my cricitisms simply stem from the fact that he is still too close to the finance people who helped create the mess in the first place.

79 ausador  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:53:00am

Hmm…I was just re-reading the story of Moses (Exodus) and something occurred to me that I had never noticed before. God must have really hated Egyptian livestock…

He exterminated all the horses, donkeys, camels, sheep, and goats belonging to the Egyptians with the 5th plague of Egypt (pestilence).

Then with the 7th plague (hail of fire) he killed all of them again (livestock of the fields).

Then with the 10th plague (angel of death) God re-killed the firstborn of all the already twice deceased livestock.

Then according to Exodus after letting the Jewish slaves go Pharaoh changed his mind. So he and his army hitched their apparently twice (or thrice) killed horses up to their chariots and took off after them…

But remember kiddies, the bible is the inerrant word of God!

///

80 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:55:39am

re: #77 goddamnedfrank

Sure, but objectively he’s the best President since Eisenhower or FDR. No other President in my lifetime has been handed a bigger pile of shit, or has produced equivalent percentage market gains. No President has faced a more dishonest opposition, no President has had to pull us out of two entrenched ground conflicts, and no other President has presided over an equivalent increase in US overseas popularity.

And his administration has not been tarnished with any scandals. (Although his opponents try to find them under every rock — Benghazi!)

He’ll be a tough act to follow, to be sure.

81 piratedan  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:57:51am

re: #77 goddamnedfrank

and gotten so little credit for it in the media…..

82 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:57:51am

re: #79 ausador

Peter Enns’ latest post tackles this kind of subject:

the best way of getting out of the whole Canaanite genocide thing, and it comes right from the Bible (but you may not like it)

The literalists/fundamentalists hate this sort of academic approach, though.

But yes, in those plagues it does seem “God” is beating a dead horse, so to speak.

83 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:58:29am

re: #79 ausador

Then with the 10th plague (angel of death) God re-killed the firstborn of all the already twice deceased livestock.

Then according to Exodus after letting the Jewish slaves go Pharaoh changed his mind. So he and his army hitched their apparently twice (or thrice) killed horses up to their chariots and took off after them…

But remember kiddies, the bible is the inerrant word of God!

///

Horses are not livestock, they are a means of transportation.

Oh ye of little faith.

/

84 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:02:56am

re: #79 ausador

Never noticed it myself, either. Those first several plagues must have been really ineffective, or Exodus is compressing decades of plagues into a few weeks. Literary license and all.

Or God was just targeting livestock in the capital city, leaving the surrounding areas untouched. Why, I dunno. Why not skip the first several plagues, and cut to the chase? Let my people go, or your son dies.

Now that I think of it, it’s a really good thing Moses is not around now, giving the Tea Party plague-called powers. The shutdown battle could have been a lot messier.

85 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:05:33am

MP3 Audio

86 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:08:40am

Speaking of African Americans and how their blended ancestry is a source of discomfort for some in our society, The Guardian had an article on Eartha Kitt today:

Eartha Kitt’s life was scarred by failure to learn the identity of her white father, says daughter

Still… could sing:

MP3 Audio

87 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:21:18am

re: #86 freetoken

A person is legally entitled to get a copy of his or her birth certificate, with all the information listed. Kitt should have pushed harder on the authorities there. With some legal assistance, she could have forced them to release the documents.

Of course, the original could have been redacted in 1926. Someone did not want to admit being a father of a mixed-race child.

I didn’t know anything about Eartha Kitt until I saw her as Catwoman on Batman. I was 10 at the time, and right away became a fan. That voice!

88 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:26:17am

re: #79 ausador

My favorite part of Exodus is 9:12

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

How dickish is that? Really fucked up puppet master shit. The Egyptians weren’t being punished for having crap leadership or for refusing to free the Jews. They had no agency in the decision, no free will. The whole thing was God deliberately creating the conditions that would justify His wrath, setting the Egyptians up only so that He could knock them down.

I’ve heard defenders say that the slavery of the Jews was reason enough. But if the slavery was the reason, why even issue the demand for freedom? Why game the response? Why prolong the captivity of the chosen people for even one day? It’s all pretext. Exodus depicts an incredibly manipulative, sociopathic deity.

89 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:29:19am

re: #87 wheat-dogghazi

A person is legally entitled to get a copy of his or her birth certificate, with all the information listed.

IIRC, that depends on the laws in the state in question.

90 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:35:36am

re: #88 goddamnedfrank

There is also the whole question of whether Moses was a real historical figure, or was invented during the Babylonian captivity to give the captives a sense of ethnic identity. There are no Egyptian records giving their side of the story. Surely a mass exodus of former slaves would have been noteworthy, not to mention all the frogs, locusts, blood in the river, dead animals and dead kids, and the loss of the army leading up to their escape.

91 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 1:45:40am

re: #90 wheat-dogghazi

There is also the whole question of whether Moses was a real historical figure …

I’m pretty sure the academic community (at least in the modern scholarly world, not those at various fundamentalist Bible schools) have dismissed the Exodus story as being, at best, historical fiction. Fundamentalists decry so called “minimalists”, but if the evidence just isn’t there, it isn’t there.

The entire book of Genesis is a back-story, a way of giving a people a “history” in the sense of explaining they’re being a people, a group, who were more or less practicing the same basic religion (with variants.)

Devout Jews will no doubt also add that there are important moral lessons taught in these stories, and that might be true, but morality doesn’t need historical reality but rather does fine with a package of stories to communicate the ethics.

92 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:04:10am

re: #91 freetoken

Most of the OT dates from the time of the Babylonian Captivity (6th century BC) and thereafter, according to scholars. The Jewish community of the time was fractured after the fall of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, and the leaders needed to pull everyone back together, psychologically and politically. Some older traditions were recounted, others were invented, and others were partly based on historical events. Sprinkle liberally with prophesies, psalms and proverbs, and you have what Christians call the Old Testament.

It’s been a while since I read up on all this, but I recall reading that the Jews who were not exiled to Babylon did not immediately take to the Babylonian Jews’ reconstruction of their history and traditions. Jews of lesser means ended up in Egypt, or stayed in the former kingdoms. It was the upper classes who got deported to Babylon. I imagine that why the OT condemns worship of Baal and Asherah in so many places. A lot of Jews probably “strayed” from monotheism after their kingdoms were conquered.

93 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:08:13am

I remember the first time I ever had to really deal with a biblical literalist.

A buddy and I were talking about Jericho, and how besieging armies would deploy sappers to undermine walls, and the armies would make noise to cover up the sounds of the digging.

This literalist inserted himself in and you would have thought we were talking about smothering babies from the way he went on about how we were doubting the word of god middle eastern pastoral folklore.

94 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:17:20am

re: #93 Kragar

I remember the first time I ever had to really deal with a biblical literalist.

A buddy and I were talking about Jericho, and how besieging armies would deploy sappers to undermine walls, and the armies would make noise to cover up the sounds of the digging.

This literalist inserted himself in and you would have thought we were talking about smothering babies from the way he went on about how we were doubting the word of god middle eastern pastoral folklore.

Just pay attention to the guy with the trumpet, and ignore the guys digging into the walls’ bases.

95 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:27:30am

re: #92 wheat-dogghazi

Most of what I have read indicates that monotheism was slowly adopted by the people of Canaan, after the fall of the old Bronze age empires (the great Bronze Age Collapse, as it is sometimes called.) A great deal of archeology has uncovered evidence that polytheism was practiced continually in the area, with decreasing frequency. The most damning (heh) evidence indicates that Yahweh was the head of the pantheon and he had a wife/escort.

Monotheism was emerging throughout the region in late antiquity. Remnants of polytheism in the very teachings of the OT are pointed out by scholars.

I am not an expert on this stuff, but there are a mountain of books out there on Canaanite archeology and the emergence of the post Bronze-age communities, which include the Judahites, as some want to label the originators of what later became Judaism.

Lots and lots are written on this as religion plays such a central role in human life. How many axes there are to grind is a tough guess, as every school has its own cross to bear.

In the bigger picture, I view all of religion as an emergent property of Homo sapiens, as part of our language-law-religion complex that is central to culture. What laws/religions existed before the neolithic is hard to guess. Evidence is pretty clear that tool making predates our own species by millions of years. Art comes along about 100,000 years ago, if we accept jewelry/adornment as “art”, and that coincides with the emergence of our own species, which is why I say that to be human is to be an artist.

One thing is clear is that superstitions and mythologies are quite ancient. However, what we call “Monotheism” is a late addition, a work of late antiquity in the Western world, for our framework of “monotheism”. Other cultures around the world have their own systems of thinking that might be ascribed as polytheistic or monotheistic, but these have not had a big influence on our own culture in the USA.

96 freetoken  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:49:04am

Three choices for an overnight mediation:

1) something Baroque:
MP3 Audio

2) something to set your hair up:
MP3 Audio

3) something for traditional believers:
MP3 Audio

97 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 3:12:23am

re: #96 freetoken

Three choices for an overnight mediation:

1) something Baroque:
[Embedded content]

I’ll take whats behind Door Number One please

98 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 4:56:41am

So, this is how you win journalism awards? Publish stolen govt files?


The squeaky wheel gets the grease…

99 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 4:57:24am

The modern equivalent of sugar in the gas tank and opening all your canned goods and throwing them in the garbage.

100 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:03:13am

Heh
Paul Ryan’s Worst Nightmare Comes True as Bernie Sanders Is On The Budget Committee

Majority Leader Harry Reid has shattered Paul Ryan’s dreams of killing Social Security and Medicare by putting Sen. Bernie Sanders on the budget conference committee.

Sen. Sanders reacted to the official news of being appointed to the budget conference committee by saying, “I am excited about being a member of the budget conference committee and I look forward to working with my Democratic and Republican colleagues to end the absurdity of sequestration and to develop a budget which works for all Americans. In my view, it is imperative that this new budget helps us create the millions of jobs we desperately need and does not balance the budget on the backs of working people, the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor.”

In other words, Bernie Sanders opposes everything that Paul Ryan wants. Sen. Sanders has long been an outspoken critic of the Ryan budgets, and the Wisconsin Republican’s borderline obsession with privatizing Social Security and voucherizing Medicare.

101 A Mom Anon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:21:09am

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Awesome. Go Bernie!

I’m kinda back, sporadically, lizards. Kid is off to school as of yesterday. Was hard to say good bye. Back at the ranch, I’m not exactly sure what to do next. It’s like working on a big project for 20 yrs as the manager and find yourself only called in for consulting work and to check on things once in awhile. And god is this house QUIET now. I’ll kind of miss the sounds of Iron Maiden and assorted metal music coming from that part of the house almost 24/7. Sigh. (more Mom Sighs…)

Hoping to have more time here in a week or so, I’m wrapping up some things I started around here and didn’t have time to finish before The Teenager went to school. Did ya miss me? LOL.

102 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:28:31am

One of the things that always bothered me about the story of Moses is that the Pharoah involved has never been identified. The events of the life of Moses would seemingly be significant enough that you would expect to find any number of non-biblical records of them.

103 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:39:38am

re: #102 Eclectic Cyborg

One of the things that always bothered me about the story of Moses is that the Pharoah involved has never been identified. The events of the life of Moses would seemingly be significant enough that you would expect to find any number of non-biblical records of them.

Nah. Look at how little ‘outside’ reference there is to Jesus. The Exodus story is more than half-again distant in history, so if forgetfulness is linear or an inverse-square relationship, there isn’t much to find. To paraphrase the Book of Mel, Moses was ‘world-famous in Thebes’.

104 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:41:56am
105 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:42:05am

re: #102 Eclectic Cyborg

One of the things that always bothered me about the story of Moses is that the Pharoah involved has never been identified. The events of the life of Moses would seemingly be significant enough that you would expect to find any number of non-biblical records of them.

Given the Egyptian whitewashing of the historical record we have seen for reasonably well know events like the battle of Kadesh, I’m not surprised to not find any record of a major slave break happening. Now, I’m not a believer in the literal historical reality of the 10 plagues, but could several thousand unhappy people lead by a charismatic leader have beat feet while, say, Ramses II was busy at Kadesh? I personally find that rather more plausible than the whole thing having been invented out of whole cloth.

106 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:42:18am

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Merkel is not going to have it so easy in Germany anymore, either.

Germany’s SPD debates coalition with Merkel

bbc.co.uk

“Leaders of Germany’s Social Democratic Party (SPD) are meeting to discuss forming a coalition government with conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel.

“Mrs Merkel’s centre-right bloc won recent elections but fell short of a parliamentary majority.

(snip)

“The BBC’s Stephen Evans in Berlin says it will be interesting to see if the SPD pushes for the post of finance minister in any new government, as the post is currently filled by the CDU’s Wolfgang Schaeuble, seen as the driver of Germany’s tough economic policy. “

Germany has been the driver in austerity measures across Europe, affecting Greece, Spain, Portugal and others EU members, of course. It will be interesting to see if the SPD will have enough influence, in coalition with other center/left and left parties, in affecting those policies.

107 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:44:08am

Seriously though. Wouldn’t that be more like a small hoagie rather than a sandwich?

//

108 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:45:49am

re: #104 Gus

[Embedded content]

I hurt after reading that.

109 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:46:02am

re: #107 Gus

Seriously though. Wouldn’t that be more like a small hoagie rather than a sandwich?

//

Corn dog.

Image: Michelle-Bachmann-Hotdog.jpg

110 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:47:03am

re: #107 Gus

Wawa has hoagies in many sizes. wawa.com

111 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:49:22am

Dog walk. BBIAB

112 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:50:04am

re: #110 PhillyPretzel

Wawa has hoagies in many sizes. wawa.com

Did you know that all of America’s meatball and Philly cheese steak subs come from one factory?

//

113 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:51:13am

re: #112 Gus

lol.

114 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:51:30am

Time to walk up town to church. L8er dudes & dudettes.

115 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:52:22am

A croissant. O-O

116 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 5:57:17am

re: #104 Gus

More on that story.

dailymail.co.uk

No doubt Mr. Martin had been in plenty of trouble w/the law before…

117 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:08:51am

re: #102 Eclectic Cyborg

One of the things that always bothered me about the story of Moses is that the Pharoah involved has never been identified. The events of the life of Moses would seemingly be significant enough that you would expect to find any number of non-biblical records of them.

He was likely a composite Pharaoh, based on several historical characters.

I always picture him as Yul Brynner myself.

118 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:13:12am

My favorite line from that movie:

“Moses!!! There is a man among the sheep!!”

119 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:30:20am

Argle bargle.

[Breaks things.]

[Flips desk.]

[Dobro slide.]

120 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:44:01am

re: #119 Gus

Argle bargle.

[Breaks things.]

[Flips desk.]

[Dobro slide.]

{burps and scratches manly parts}

121 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:45:05am

re: #120 sattv4u2

{burps and scratches manly parts}

[Farts under sleeping bag.]

122 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 6:53:41am

re: #121 Gus

[Farts under sleeping bag.]

Sounds like a personal problem!

123 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:01:24am

and on that fart note, the long quiet drive home beckons

124 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:02:48am

re: #122 sattv4u2

Sounds like a personal problem!

Broccoli. //

125 Good Morning  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:10:09am

What’s the difference what’s in a book that almost nobody is likely to ever read.

126 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:15:20am

Downtown Denver is booming, but it is a tale of two cities

127 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:21:16am

re: #125 Good Morning

What’s the difference what’s in a book that almost nobody is likely to ever read.

You didn’t read your science textbooks back in high school? That must explain all those Ds and Fs you got back then.

128 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:21:34am

re: #118 Amory Blaine

My favorite line from that movie:

“Moses!!! There is a man among the sheep!!”

Reminds me of an old joke in Wyoming, “where men are men, and sheep are n-n-nervous.”

129 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:26:42am

re: #125 Good Morning

You should have some of what this cat was carrying:

Prison guards nabbed an audacious cat after it was caught red-handed trying to smuggle two bags of cannabis into a prison in Moldova.

The prison authorities are now looking for the moggy’s trainer, who they believe may live in the nearby village of Pruncul and has been supplying inmates with illegal drugs for some time.

The prison officers became suspicious of the grey and white cat, which regularly came and went through a hole in the fence, when they noticed it was wearing a peculiar collar.

When they apprehended the cat, they found two packets of marijuana attached to it.

130 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:45:35am

re: #125 Good Morning

What’s the difference what’s in a book that almost nobody is likely to ever read.

That’s the best you can do? Please try harder.

131 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:55:41am

The acceptance that american children are stupid and that public schools are communist indoctrination centers have fulfilled the wet dreams of corporatists the world over.

132 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:58:22am

As if Thailand workers are more qualified to assemble hard drives than americans is a fucking joke. Skills gap = giant lie.

133 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:58:26am

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

You should have some of what this cat was carrying:

That was just personal use…the cat wasn’t going to distribute.

134 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:02:33am

re: #131 Amory Blaine

What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

135 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:02:47am

Jesus Christ these morning roundtable shows are fucking mindnumbingly stupid. The MBF is supreme.

136 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:03:22am

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

The claim that science books are not read.

137 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:04:07am

Hungry. Again.

138 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:06:51am

Mouth is alive with juices like wine.

139 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:07:19am

[3 hour guitar solo by Jerry Garcia.]

140 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:10:31am

This was the best Dead show I went to (also my first). Changed my outlook on life that’s for sure.

Youtube Video

141 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:11:42am

re: #135 Amory Blaine

Jesus Christ these morning roundtable shows are fucking mindnumbingly stupid. The MBF is supreme.

Have the Republicans won the Shutdown yet? It’s been a few days now, they should be declared victors with a strong mandate for killing Obamacare.

142 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:14:22am
143 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:14:30am

re: #141 darthstar

Yep. Obama is equally at fault, it’s Nancy Pelosi’s fault as well. Ted Cruz didn’t want the shutdown.

Liberal media. BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

144 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:15:05am

re: #141 darthstar

Have the Republicans won the Shutdown yet? It’s been a few days now, they should be declared victors with a strong mandate for killing Obamacare.

The are still waiting on the vote total from Ohio.

145 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:15:28am

re: #136 Amory Blaine

The claim that science books are not read.

Sorry. I didn’t pick up on that since your comment wasn’t a reply to the sniper troll. Please excuse the error.

146 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:17:34am

THAT’S Sockpuppeteering done right.

147 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:20:07am

re: #143 Amory Blaine

Yep. Obama is equally at fault, it’s Nancy Pelosi’s fault as well. Ted Cruz didn’t want the shutdown.

Liberal media. BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

148 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:21:09am

Beware the salsa tyranny.

149 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:21:53am
150 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:26:04am

Salsa is red. Coincidence?

151 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:28:56am

re: #150 Amory Blaine

Salsa is red. Coincidence?

And the rockets RED glare! //

152 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:31:25am

re: #146 darthstar

THAT’S Sockpuppeteering done right.

[Embedded content]

All due respect to Mr. Folkenflik and to Media Matters, but I won’t credit this story unless one of the FNC emplyees who told him is willing to go on the record.

153 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:33:41am

Not one report of successful exchanges in Cali or Oregon. Only negatives.

154 miclaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:34:26am

re: #140 Amory Blaine

Best were the Keith and Donna years (imho) - loved them all tho. The Alpine Shows were terrific, as were the Uptown (80’s) and Auditorium shows (70’s).

155 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:37:46am

re: #132 Amory Blaine

As if Thailand workers are more qualified to assemble hard drives than americans is a fucking joke. Skills gap = giant lie.

They’re more qualified, by virtue of their willingness to work for a pittance.

156 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:40:12am

re: #150 Amory Blaine

Salsa is red. Coincidence?

Not Salsa Verde.

157 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:42:08am

re: #156 GeneJockey

The green movement is communism in disguise!!

158 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:43:33am
159 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:44:56am

re: #157 Amory Blaine

The green movement is communism in disguise!!

My aging Dudebro brother tells me he votes Green, because he can’t vote Red.

160 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:53:48am

re: #155 GeneJockey

They’re more qualified, by virtue of their willingness to work for a pittance.

And the safety and environmental protection related costs are much, much lower.

I don’t mind letting other nations compete on wages, that should be our impetus to work better and smarter, but when we let them undercut us on protecting workers and the environment, we are doing nobody a favor, neither our workers nor theirs.

161 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:55:16am

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

All due respect to Mr. Folkenflik and to Media Matters, but I won’t credit this story unless one of the FNC emplyees who told him is willing to go on the record.

You’re such a sockpuppet sometimes. :)

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:57:59am

re: #158 Gus

[Embedded content]

Philip Weiss is a horse’s ass. He’s acting all butthurt because Goliath, an anti-Israel book by Max Blumenthal that Weiss likes, got bad reviews by Eric Alterman of The Nation and by the Wall Street Journal. Rather than ask if Alterman might have a point, Weiss results to flinging the term “Jewish nationalism’ around and effectively saying that Alterman’s defense of Israel is grounds to says that Alterman is no longer a liberal.

Thus we have a firebagger calling someone a ‘DINO’, which is same of crap as a teabagger calling someone a ‘RINO’. Neither bagger is right, though the teabagger is more likely to have influence.

163 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 8:59:52am

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Philip Weiss is a horse’s ass. He’s acting all butthurt because Goliath, an anti-Israel book by Max Blumenthal that Weiss likes, got bad reviews by Eric Alterman of The Nation and by the Wall Street Journal. Rather than ask if Alterman might have a point, Weiss results to flinging the term “Jewish nationalism’ around and effectively saying that Alterman’s defense of Israel is grounds to says that Alterman is no longer a liberal.

Thus we have a firebagger calling someone a ‘DINO’, which is same of crap as a teabagger calling someone a ‘RINO’. Neither bagger is right, though the teabagger is more likely to have influence.

Yeah. Noted right winger Eric Alterman. O_o Right.

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:00:11am

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Thus we have a firebagger calling someone a ‘DINO’,

165 ausador  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:02:26am

re: #155 GeneJockey

They’re more qualified, by virtue of their willingness to work for a pittance.

I thought it was because “Caucasians are just too damn tall.” ;)

Youtube Video

166 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:09:09am

re: #163 Gus

Yeah. Noted right winger Eric Alterman. O_o Right.

Part of the reason I posted a detailed reply was that I saw in Phillip Weiss’ piece was what we have seen so often place like Breitbart.com: When confronted by someone normally thought to be on their side saying something the writer doesn’t like, instead of engaging and defeating the opposing argument the writer calls the other person names and calls for them to be purged.

It’s that kind of behavior that gave us the shutdown.

167 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:16:27am

re: #160 Sol Berdinowitz

And the safety and environmental protection related costs are much, much lower.

I don’t mind letting other nations compete on wages, that should be our impetus to work better and smarter, but when we let them undercut us on protecting workers and the environment, we are doing nobody a favor, neither our workers nor theirs.

If their workers were earning enough to support the same standard of living, I’d agree. Otherwise you’re just exporting slavery, along with pollution and unsafe workplaces.

168 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:22:11am

re: #167 GeneJockey

If their workers were earning enough to support the same standard of living, I’d agree. Otherwise you’re just exporting slavery, along with pollution and unsafe workplaces.

We have decided that “Freedom of Trade” is more important than human rights. We will wind up paying for those decisions some day, and the price will be a lot higher than just a few extra dollars for electronics and designer clothes.

169 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:25:16am
170 makeitstop  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:27:35am

Name That Blue!

Kinda cool.

171 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:29:50am

re: #168 Sol Berdinowitz

Are there not some serious cultural dilemmas inherent there? It certainly feels right to condemn other nations ways from our high and mighty perspective.

A good friend was hired to design and oversee construction of one of the “jewelry villages” in China. As his first design was rejected outright as too expensive he balked. They wanted what we would think of as unacceptable. Stacked bunk beds,m bathroom/shower facilities all shared by quite a few people. Almost a military base kind of thing for troops.

He was ready to lose the whole deal, and a lot of money. Then they took him to the dirt poor village the people would be coming from, and realized the design he hated was a very significant upgrade in the lives and lifestyles of those worker.

I don’t know the right answer. I just feel the need for caution before passing judgement. The US got safety rules over time, and we seem to expect China and India to do the same overnight as we say it should be done.

172 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:32:46am

bbl

173 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:37:59am

re: #171 Political Atheist

Are there not some serious cultural dilemmas inherent there? It certainly feels right to condemn other nations ways from our high and mighty perspective.

A good friend was hired to design and oversee construction of one of the “jewelry villages” in China. As his first design was rejected outright as too expensive he balked. They wanted what we would think of as unacceptable. Stacked bunk beds,m bathroom/shower facilities all shared by quite a few people. Almost a military base kind of thing for troops.

He was ready to lose the whole deal, and a lot of money. Then took him to the dirt poor village the people would be coming from, and realized the design he hated was a very significant upgrade in the lives and lifestyles of those worker.

I don’t know the right answer. I just feel the need for caution before passing judgement. The US got safety rules overtime, and we seem to expect China and India to do the same overnight as we say it should be done.

The market is deciding that American jewelery workers should hotbunk and share showers. (If there is such a thing as an ‘American jewelery worker’ or an ‘American job’.)

174 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:43:06am

re: #171 Political Atheist

There is something to what you describe.
OTOH, what immediately comes to my mind is shoddy construction of clothing sweatshops and working/living conditions in Bangladesh (and elsewhere).

175 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:46:29am

re: #171 Political Atheist

Are there not some serious cultural dilemmas inherent there? It certainly feels right to condemn other nations ways from our high and mighty perspective.

A good friend was hired to design and oversee construction of one of the “jewelry villages” in China. As his first design was rejected outright as too expensive he balked. They wanted what we would think of as unacceptable. Stacked bunk beds,m bathroom/shower facilities all shared by quite a few people. Almost a military base kind of thing for troops.

He was ready to lose the whole deal, and a lot of money. Then took him to the dirt poor village the people would be coming from, and realized the design he hated was a very significant upgrade in the lives and lifestyles of those worker.

I don’t know the right answer. I just feel the need for caution before passing judgement. The US got safety rules overtime, and we seem to expect China and India to do the same overnight as we say it should be done.

That is a tough one.

I would just hope a tight line is drawn on worker safety, above all things. That’s the one issue there shouldn’t be any compromise on, no matter what their “previous living conditions”.

176 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:48:32am

re: #175 SidewaysQuark

I agree. A fence over the window is not suicide prevention by any rational human measure. (Foxconn)

177 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 9:53:40am

BTW let’s keep in mind our American pro worker outrage is expressed very unevenly. Our smartphones are made at places we would not contemplate working in for a minute. Child labor (or apprenticeship?) hard conditions, suicides.

But if you make sweaters and a subcontractor of a subcontractor gets out of line the clothing line and its spokespeople take a big hit. Clothing child labor=bad. Smartphone child labor/worker suicides generated far less outrage or change.

178 simoom  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:06:57am

Daily Caller’s Jim Treacher (Sean Medlock):

For some reason I glanced at his Wikipedia page and here’s what it says he’s most notable for:

Treacher is best known for starting the “Obama Eats Dogs” meme after his 2012 discovery of an anecdote in Barack Obama’s 17 year old autobiography

179 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:07:04am

re: #173 Decatur Deb

The market is deciding that American jewelery workers should hotbunk and share showers. (If there is such a thing as an ‘American jewelery worker’ or an ‘American job’.)

Most of our super high production is gone. Keep in mind it peaked when gold was at or under $500Toz and in the dot com boom. We still have some, but it’s a shadow of it’s former volume. Now the creative heart of high technology has made astonishing designs possible. Now almost anyone who can afford gold or platinum family jewelry can have it custom made easily.
CAD remade the biz.

180 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:17:28am

re: #178 simoom

Singular thread of his obsession. Probably has Westminster photos interspersed with democrat photos in a mozaic on his living room wall. Colorful thread tacked in meaningless patterns.

181 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:18:55am

re: #178 simoom

Daily Caller’s Jim Treacher (Sean Medlock):

[Embedded content]

For some reason I glanced at his Wikipedia page and here’s what it says he’s most notable for:

182 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:23:42am
183 darthstar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:34:35am
184 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:36:54am

Morning/Afternoon Lizardim.

185 b_sharp  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:39:48am

re: #183 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That’s why regulations are bad things, they allow law suits against the poor rich people just looking to make a killing.

186 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:41:42am

OK, back. Cripes it feels cold outside. Only 46F with 66 percent humidity but I still feel cold. Must be the new boozeless plumbing system.

187 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:42:59am

Jim Treacher?

188 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:45:37am

re: #186 Gus

OK, back. Cripes it feels cold outside. Only 46F with 66 percent humidity but I still feel cold. Must be the new boozeless plumbing system.

Yeah, that probably isn’t helping anything. Turn up the heat. I’ve had the furnace on for a week now.

189 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:47:06am

re: #188 thedopefishlives

Yeah, that probably isn’t helping anything. Turn up the heat. I’ve had the furnace on for a week now.

Yep, heat’s cranked up. Let me wheel it in a little closer. //

190 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:48:18am

You ever notice how some peeps like Treacher try and hide behind alleged humor but you can tell they’re still butthurt?

191 blueraven  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:48:59am

re: #186 Gus

OK, back. Cripes it feels cold outside. Only 46F with 66 percent humidity but I still feel cold. Must be the new boozeless plumbing system.

Once you get to that “bone chill” stage, it is very hard to warm up.
Maybe a heating pad for awhile.

192 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:49:16am

Butthurt is covered by Obamacare BTW.

193 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:49:59am

re: #192 Amory Blaine

Butthurt is covered by Obamacare BTW.

But no one will ever apply for it.

194 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:50:42am

re: #193 thedopefishlives

But no one will ever apply for it.

==Sign Up for Obamacare get Free Hunting Rifle==

That’s right! Free!

196 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:52:13am

re: #194 Gus

==Sign Up for Obamacare get Free Hunting Rifle==

That’s right! Free!

Can we get a shotgun instead? Rifle hunting is illegal across the southwest half of MN.

197 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:52:57am

re: #196 thedopefishlives

Can we get a shotgun instead? Rifle hunting is illegal across the southwest half of MN.

Free hunting rifle OR shotgun OR AR-15.

199 kirkspencer  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:53:52am

re: #191 blueraven

Once you get to that “bone chill” stage, it is very hard to warm up.
Maybe a heating pad for awhile.

And hot liquids. The ‘bone chill’ is when your core is beginning to chill.

Oh - one place to put a heating pad is against the inner wrists. The skin is thin there and the blood close to the surface, so it’ll help carry warmth to the core more quickly.

200 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:54:30am

Rubio: House Republicans ‘deserve’ to dictate immigration reform after government shutdown

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) on Sunday said that President Barack Obama must cave to House Republicans’ demands on immigration reform because he had “undermined” the effort by refusing to defund his signature health care reform law.

During an interview with Fox News, Rubio reasoned that since the Obama administration had delayed parts of the Affordable Care Act, it could also decide to selectively enforce parts of any new immigration reform law.

“Certainly, the president has undermined this effort because the way he’s behaved over the last three weeks [during the government shutdown],” he explained to Fox News host Chris Wallace.

The only thing the GOP deserves is a kick in the nuts on their way out the door.

201 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:54:45am

If there was ever a war Alex Jones would probably get shot in the butt. Right through both cheeks right before he falls to the ground exclaiming, “they got me!”

202 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:55:18am

Remember the Alamo Rent-A-Car!

203 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:55:56am

I should move to Texas where it’s warmer in the southern part and I can be a real life human troll.

204 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:57:42am

Another stupid rally. Yep. Whatever.

205 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 10:58:07am

Cruz: GOP lost because they didn’t accuse Dems of holding children ‘hostage’

During the interview that aired on Sunday, Cruz said that Reid showed Democrats were “vulnerable” and that Republicans should have used children with cancer as a pressure point to win the fight against health care reform.

“President Obama and the Democrats’ position throughout this is, ‘We will not negotiate, we will not compromise, shut it all down.’ That’s not a reasonable position,” he explained. “If Senate Republicans had united and supported House Republicans, if we had 46 Senate Republicans on television every day, in the media every day making the point, ‘Why won’t they fund the VA, why are they holding our veterans hostage? Why won’t they fund the NIH, why are they holding kids with illnesses hostage?’”

“That’s a fight we could win because their position was unreasonable.”

206 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:00:42am

You have to admit it’s pretty funny. Alex Jones was persona non grata with right wingers during the Bush years. Anti-Israel. 9/11 truther. Loud mouth anti-neocon Bilderberger, New-World-Order nut (read teh JUICE!). Now he’s mainstream with the RWNJs including wingnut leader, Matt “Salsa” Drudge.

207 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:01:31am

They ended up embracing Alex Jones and the Birchers. I remember when they were saying this would never happen.

208 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:01:47am

re: #206 Gus

You have to admit it’s pretty funny. Alex Jones was persona non grata with right wingers during the Bush years. Anti-Israel. 9/11 truther. Loud mouth anti-neocon Bilderberger, New-World-Order nut (read teh JUICE!). Now he’s mainstream with the RWNJs including wingnut leader, Matt “Salsa” Drudge.

I never consider Matt a dancer really.
/

209 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:02:10am


And this is a bad thing? //

210 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:02:57am

re: #195 Kragar

Advocates like Alex Jones are a big part of the problem. Calm advocacy is the winner. He is just making waves he can exploit for ratings/hits/clicks. He’ll lie or cheat for the price of a mouse click.

He poisons the atmosphere. He makes it tougher for anyone to take calm advocates seriously.

211 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:03:05am

I’m weird in that I hate commercials in general. I’m also weird in that I easily avoid watching commercials and don’t spend half my life whining about commercials.

212 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:03:05am

re: #195 Kragar

Alex Jones at unprecedented gun rights rally at Alamo: ‘If it’s a war they want, it’s a war they’ll get’

They just love an excuse to show off their dick substitutes in public.

213 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:06:40am

re: #203 Gus

I should move to Texas where it’s warmer in the southern part and I can be a real life human troll.

Had a co-worker of mine who was from India. One January day, I was in the office, and overheard her talking to the big boss. She was leaving the company; he asked where she was going. “Texas,” she said. “I can’t stand the winters here, they’re too cold for me.”

214 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:07:07am

Unprecedented. Right. Everything is unprecedented these days. Seemingly from everyone. Everything is over the top, grammar derping, unprecedented, and never seen before today. It’s the end of the world and the start of a new beginning. Alex Jones rally: unprecedented. Glenn Greenwald media grifting start-up: unprecedented. Edward Snowden: unprecedented. That and every other person that a certain group hates is Hitler.

215 blueraven  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:07:15am

Marco Rubio, on Fox News Sunday, still trying to push the BS, that it was President Obama and the Democrats who shutdown the government.

216 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:07:43am

Man. What is wrong with this guy?

217 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:08:01am

Living under Obama is worse than landing on the beaches of Iwo Jima.

218 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:11:00am

re: #213 thedopefishlives

Had a co-worker of mine who was from India. One January day, I was in the office, and overheard her talking to the big boss. She was leaving the company; he asked where she was going. “Texas,” she said. “I can’t stand the winters here, they’re too cold for me.”

Used to get colder than the proverbial well digger in Lubbock. The all-time low was -17 in January 1963. There were usually 3 or 4 days below zero every winter. It hasn’t been below zero here at all since 1988. It hasn’t gone into single digits since 2006. Low last winter was 14F.

219 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:11:37am

Chuck Todd the amazing corporate puppet.

220 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:12:11am

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Man. What is wrong with this guy?

[Embedded content]

Lolwhut.

221 blueraven  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:13:55am

re: #214 Gus

Unprecedented. Right. Everything is unprecedented these days. Seemingly from everyone. Everything is over the top, grammar derping, unprecedented, and never seen before today. It’s the end of the world and the start of a new beginning. Alex Jones rally: unprecedented. Glenn Greenwald media grifting start-up: unprecedented. Edward Snowden: unprecedented. That and every other person that a certain group hates is Hitler.

The rally at the Alamo is unprecedented as it has, in the past, been governed by The Daughters of the Republic of Texas. Now control of the Alamo has shifted to the TX Land Commission which allowed this.

From 1905 to 2011, the Daughters of the Republic of Texas were the Alamo’s custodians. But in 2011, lawmakers gave the state’s General Land office control of the monument where Col. William Travis and 200 Texas defenders famously died in a siege with the Mexican army in 1836. It was Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson who approved the rally here.

222 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:14:26am

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Even stranger…

223 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:14:38am
224 thedopefishlives  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:14:53am

re: #218 Shiplord Kirel

Used to get colder than the proverbial well digger in Lubbock. The all-time low was -17 in January 1963. There were usually 3 or 4 days below zero every winter. It hasn’t been below zero here at all since 1988. It hasn’t gone into single digits since 2006. Low last winter was 14F.

2006, the year I moved to MN, was a hard cold winter. Lots of snow and several days in January that bottomed out near 40 below. Methinks this winter might be another hard one; the geese left relatively early, and we are in the midst of a strong cold snap in the middle of October.

225 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:18:08am

Maybe I can take up asylum in Cuba. I heard it’s warm there.

226 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:18:56am

Meanwhile, the list of participants for the “anti-surveillance” rally Glenn Greenwald is pushing has to be seen to be believed.

Some of the most extreme Tea Party and far right groups in America.

227 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:19:13am
228 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:20:15am

re: #227 Political Atheist

[Embedded content]

Give him a break.
Fact checking isn’t his job!
;)

229 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:21:26am

re: #226 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, the list of participants for the “anti-surveillance” rally Glenn Greenwald is pushing has to be seen to be believed.

[Embedded content]

That’s a lot of pale faces.

230 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:21:59am

re: #195 Kragar

Alex Jones at unprecedented gun rights rally at Alamo: ‘If it’s a war they want, it’s a war they’ll get’

Okay, Alex, the game is on. I’ll see your AR and raise you a 155 Paladin.

231 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:22:15am

re: #228 Varek Raith

Give him a break.
Fact checking isn’t his job!
;)

His job is to generate content

232 Political Atheist  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:24:53am

re: #231 Sol Berdinowitz

His job is to generate content

And that is exactly where journalism has gone bad.

233 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:26:09am

The Alamo. Where else can white people gather to fantasize they’re fighting SALSA EATIN’ MEXICANS!! in a bloody conflict?

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:26:46am

re: #232 Political Atheist

And that is exactly where journalism has gone bad.

Commercial networks do not even sell content, they sell advertising time. The content is just up there to draw attention, making the advertising time more attractive to potential customers.

Networks used to compete on the quality of their content, now they just measure market share, or target market share.

235 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:29:21am

They do realize we lost the Battle of the Alamo…Right?

236 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:32:09am

Sunday funny for the IT folks here…

Image: 1376481_176733682530819_1713328378_n.jpg

237 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:32:25am

re: #226 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, the list of participants for the “anti-surveillance” rally Glenn Greenwald is pushing has to be seen to be believed.

[Embedded content]

CAIR, DKos, OWS and the Progressive Librarians Guild? Wow! Where do I sign up. Seriously, I don’t find the list that surprising. The old Paulian/Code pink moronic convergence. The only minor changes are the inclusion of freedom works. I’m kind of surprised Heritage Foundation isn’t included. How the NSA Scandal Is Roiling the Heritage Foundation

238 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:32:34am

re: #235 Varek Raith

They do realize we lost the Battle of the Alamo…Right?

It was a MORAL victory.

Do you not remember the photo of General Santa Ana parading before a big banner that read “Mission Accompished”?

239 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:49:34am

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Heritage got their asses kicked during the shutdown.
I think they are lying low for a bit.

240 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:50:05am

A Rally Against Mass Surveillance

Do they mind if we watch?

241 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:55:55am

re: #240 Decatur Deb

>A Rally Against Mass Surveillance

Do they mind if we watch?

Pervert!
/

242 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 11:56:27am

re: #236 Backwoods_Sleuth

Even a non-IT like me got that one. lol

243 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:01:09pm

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

Even a non-IT like me got that one. lol

And the always classic, ID10T error.

244 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:06:04pm

re: #241 Varek Raith

Pervert!
/

I like to watch.
—CG

245 HoosierHoops  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:06:12pm

Ahh,, Talladega race is on. The weekend in Alabama is more fun than any reasonable person can legally expect to have.
That makes up for being the most boring race of the year.
Me: When do they wreck?
Friend: Any minute now..hold on..
Me: You said there would be wrecks..
Friend: Hold on.There will be a wreck..’ The Big one ’
Me: Here they come again.. Nobody is wrecking..
Friend: Hoopster! They are still on the pace laps..
Me: Oh..OK.. But..They are going to wreck..right?
Friend: Oh..My hangover..
Me: Cars are loud..aren’t they?
Friend: Groan..I wanna die..Just kill me now..
Me: What? Can’t hear you..What?

246 b.d.  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:06:50pm

Ugh:

About the rally

Right now the NSA is spying on everyone’s personal communications, and they’re operating without any meaningful oversight.

I’m not hearing anything about this rally anywhere? Even the sponsors they list haven’t said a word about it?

247 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:15:43pm

re: #235 Varek Raith

They do realize we lost the Battle of the Alamo…Right?

And Mexico still celebrates a group of cadets who fought to the death when the US stormed Mexico’s military college during the Mexican War. Lots of nations have a ‘Last Stand’ they celebrate.

248 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:18:38pm
249 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:19:09pm

re: #248 Gus

[Embedded content]

We are all Glenn Greenwald.

250 Gus  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:20:21pm

re: #249 Varek Raith

We are all Glenn Greenwald.

That was my first option but I went with Rula Lenska.

251 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:20:48pm

Graham opposes Obamacare because his ‘friend’ owns 52 Wendy’s and has to insure employees

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said on Sunday that he opposed President Barack Obama’s health care law because a “friend” would have to pay more to insure the employees at his 52 Wendy’s restaurants — but the South Carolina Republican did not offer another solution to provide heath care for the 60 percent of those workers that did not currently have insurance.

252 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:21:05pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

And Mexico still celebrates a group of cadets who fought to the death when the US stormed Mexico’s military college during the Mexican War. Lots of nations have a ‘Last Stand’ they celebrate.

Here in the Czech Republic, there’s the Battle of Bila Hora - White Mountain.

253 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:21:45pm
254 Kragar  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:23:06pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Who would that thought?
/

255 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:23:18pm

re: #226 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, the list of participants for the “anti-surveillance” rally Glenn Greenwald is pushing has to be seen to be believed.

[Embedded content]

At least two “Occupy Wall Street” groups in there. That should get Killgore to demand that water cannons be used on the crowd.

256 RinaX  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:24:26pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

I’m pleased that so many more people are now tuned in to what a douchebag Chuck Todd is. Some of us accused of being “Obots” had idiots like him and Mark Knoller pegged early on.

257 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:24:30pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

At least two “Occupy Wall Street” groups in there. That should get Killgore to demand that water cannons be used on the crowd.

FILLED WITH PEPPER SPRAY!!!
/

258 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:28:22pm

re: #257 Varek Raith

FILLED WITH PEPPER SPRAY!!!
/

Plus at least one Tea Party group, two libertarian groups, Tor (which is the group that built the browser used to access illegal web sites like Silk Road), a group called the ‘Bradley Manning Support Network’, “and a partridge in a pear tree.”

259 b.d.  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:29:37pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

*Shocked Face*

Shouldn’t that movie be downloadable for free off of a pirate copy?

260 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:31:15pm

re: #195 Kragar

Alex Jones at unprecedented gun rights rally at Alamo: ‘If it’s a war they want, it’s a war they’ll get’

Alex Jones is not just crazy, he’s also a bigot and a liar:

hese sentiments were echoed by radio personality Alex Jones, who told the crowd that “I’m not different from my ancestors, and you’re no different from your ancestors. My ancestors on both sides of my family started the Texas revolution, and I’m here to tell you that that revolution was a continuation of human beings fighting against bullies and tyrants in every civilization throughout history, and this is the struggle of the individual.”

He went on to call Mexico “a countrywide Chicago,” before suggesting that the Second Amendment also applies to citizens of Mexico. “There is a fight worldwide to take your guns. Dianne Feinstein, ‘Handgun Control Incorporated,’ the few dozen Democratic operatives they’re going to have marching here in a little while, these so-called ‘moms,’ they are here to disarm you while Homeland Security buys tens of thousands of armored vehicles and millions of bullets.”

261 ausador  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:33:03pm

re: #217 Gus

Living under Obama is worse than landing on the beaches of Iwo Jima.

So it isn’t quite as bad as landing at Tarawa?

262 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:34:21pm

re: #249 Varek Raith

We are all Glenn Greenwald.

I’m still Spartacus, thankyouverymuch.

263 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:43:12pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

And Mexico still celebrates a group of cadets who fought to the death when the US stormed Mexico’s military college during the Mexican War. Lots of nations have a ‘Last Stand’ they celebrate.

Battle of Camarón as well for The Legion.

Mexico seems to be involved in more than it’s share of these kind of battles, doesn’t it?

264 allegro  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 12:45:54pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

Because this: ” It wasn’t that audiences didn’t care about Cumberbatch. It’s that they didn’t care about Assange.”

265 cuzIsaidso  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 3:59:59pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Bunker Hill for us.

266 cuzIsaidso  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 4:04:45pm

re: #235 Varek Raith

They do realize we lost the Battle of the Alamo…Right?

The Texans lost, not real ‘Murcans.

267 palomino  Sun, Oct 20, 2013 7:42:19pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

And Mexico still celebrates a group of cadets who fought to the death when the US stormed Mexico’s military college during the Mexican War. Lots of nations have a ‘Last Stand’ they celebrate.

In the US, the glorious “lost cause” is really more of a southern thing. Alamo, Civil War, segregation, tea party, government shutdown, etc.


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