Breitbart’s “War” on Kellogg’s Is Backfiring as More Advertisers Flee

Far right “journalism” at its finest

The far right clowns who run Breitbart “News” may have sabotaged themselves by calling for a boycott and “war” on the Kellogg Company for pulling advertising from the hate site.

Apparently it didn’t occur to them that attacking a major advertiser might not improve their reputation with other advertisers, and now even more major companies are pulling their ads.

Breitbart News, an ultraconservative website that has served as a platform for the white nationalist “alt-right” movement, is touting its growing readership and “main street American values” as a reason advertisers should stick with it.

Some marketers, however, are heading for the exits, directing their advertising dollars away from Breitbart amid the publication’s call for a boycott against Kellogg’s (K), which has pulled its ads from the site. That prompted Breitbart to declare “war” on Kellogg’s: Editor-in-Chief Alexander Marlow said on the site that “to blacklist Breitbart News in order to placate left-wing totalitarians is a disgraceful act of cowardice.”

[…]

Other companies saying this week that they’ll pull their ads from Breitbart include Vanguard, 3M (MMM) and AARP, among others.

And there’s another important point to draw from this episode. Ethical media companies don’t mix their advertising and journalistic sides, because they need to make sure there’s no influence on their reporting. Breitbart, however, is very obviously not an ethical media company.

“Reporters don’t behave that way in the U.S., nor should they,” said Lee Wilkins, professor and chair of the department of communications at Wayne State University, who’s an expert in media ethics. “Most journalistic organizations have checks between the people who pay for your news work and the news work itself, so that you are as a journalist protected from those influences.”

She said she views Breitbart as a blog rather than a journalistic organization. “If you aren’t a journalism organization, then those safeguards are never in place.”

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190 comments

1
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:56:12am

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

(Reposted from downstairs.)

2
Dr Lizardo  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:58:06am

re: #1 Timothy Watson

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

(Reposted from downstairs.)

It could’ve just been a bulk ad buy or something.

3
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:58:42am

When you strike at King Corn, you’d better not be a gang of fascist bloggers.

4
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:59:21am

Bad move by Kellogg’s. Most of the Breitbart readers sit around in yellowing underwear eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner out of a bowl.

5
IntegralDoc  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:59:50am

6
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:00:36pm

3M.
I look forward to the Breitbartians boycott of Scotch tape.

7
Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:02:43pm

As this starts to starve these fucksticks of the ad money they depend on, look for ever-more-panicked screams about “First Amendment Violashuns!!11!”

My page yesterday was about the tech solutions emerging; the sad fact is that a lot of the ad inventory (including the ads on this here site) are sold via what are known as “Ad Exchanges” where there is “Real-Time Bidding” on ad inventory. The advertiser is merely buying an audience - say, of 24-35 year old males in the midwest who have recently streamed alt-rock music. Via the magic of internet cookies, that audience is aggregated & available on these Ad Exchanges.

Advertisers are belatedly waking up to the fact that the audience they are buying is toxic; and the messaging their ads are placed next to the stomach-wrenching neo-Nazi spew of the Breitbart/Free Republic/Gateway Pundit content.

It’s the online advertising equivalent of putting your billboard in a puddle of raw sewage.

8
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:02:58pm

re: #1 Timothy Watson

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

(Reposted from downstairs.)

Most advertising these days is handled by suppliers and networks that make group purchases across a range of sites. It’s doubtful that AARP chose to advertise on Breitbart specifically — it was just one of the sites their ads were sold to by a third party. But companies can choose to exclude sites they don’t want their ads to appear on, and that’s most likely what happened.

9
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:03:14pm

S.C. jury is deadlocked as to whether a cop who was videotaped shooting a black man in the back while he ran for his life committed murder. Another day in the USA.

yahoo.com

10
I Would Prefer Not To  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:06:08pm

re: #5 IntegralDoc

[Embedded content]

Is it really Guiliani?

11
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:06:42pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Most advertising these days is handled by suppliers and networks that make group purchases across a range of sites. It’s doubtful that AARP chose to advertise on Breitbart specifically — it was just one of the sites their ads were sold to by a third party. But companies can choose to exclude sites they don’t want their ads to appear on, and that’s most likely what happened.

Exactly. First time I saw my company’s ad show on Breitbart I dropped into Adwords and blocked it. These days advertisers don’t reach out to sites to advertise on. By and large, they opt-out when that site underperforms or is Breitbart-like.

12
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:06:47pm

re: #9 Big Beautiful Door

S.C. jury is deadlocked as to whether a cop who was videotaped shooting a black man in the back while he ran for his life committed murder. Another day in the USA.

yahoo.com

Shooting him in the back AND staging a scene to make it look like he stole the officer’s taser.

13
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:07:22pm

re: #10 I Would Prefer Not To

Is it really Guiliani?

Friday afternoon? Probably.

14
Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:07:55pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Most advertising these days is handled by suppliers and networks that make group purchases across a range of sites. It’s doubtful that AARP chose to advertise on Breitbart — it was just one of the sites their ads were sold to by a third party. But companies can choose to exclude sites they don’t want their ads to appear on, and that’s most likely what happened.

Yep. It would be really, really interesting to see just how much of the traffic on Breitbart is legit … and how much of it comes via a “Traffic Acquisition Manager” who buys clicks.

If you’re not familiar with the phenomenon, it is an all-too-common way of defrauding your advertisers. Basically, you buy traffic from outfits like this - revisitors.com - which have botnets. The bots come to your site and click on your ads. Millions of times.

Each click puts money in your pocket. The ad networks turn a blind eye to this, although anyone smart enough to read the “Source/Medium” report on Google Analytics can quickly spot that, say, Breitbart’s traffic suddenly got a huge spike from old Windows XP machines located in Murmansk.

15
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:08:46pm

Don’t worry, even if Breitbart loses all their advertisers President Trump will bail them out!

State run media anyone?

16
Joe Bacon  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:10:19pm

re: #1 Timothy Watson

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

(Reposted from downstairs.)

Yes because AARP is just the front for an insuance company.

17
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:10:58pm
18
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:11:00pm

I am hopeful these advertisers mean it. I’d be very disappointed in them if a few weeks/months down the road, they go crawling back.

19
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:11:57pm

re: #9 Big Beautiful Door

S.C. jury is deadlocked as to whether a cop who was videotaped shooting a black man in the back while he ran for his life committed murder. Another day in the USA.

yahoo.com

Once again proving that even when a case is a “slam dunk,” a white cop has at least a 50/50 chance of acquittal for killing a black man.

20
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:12:13pm
21
I Would Prefer Not To  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:13:37pm

re: #18 GlutenFreeJesus

I am hopeful these advertisers mean it. I’d be very disappointed in them if a few weeks/months down the road, they go crawling back.

Hope not. There are thousands of places to advertise online.

22
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:13:55pm

re: #18 GlutenFreeJesus

I am hopeful these advertisers mean it. I’d be very disappointed in them if a few weeks/months down the road, they go crawling back.

From what I understand, companies have continued to stay away from Limbaugh.

23
Skip Intro  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:14:19pm

re: #20 jaunte

There are no facts anymore. Truth is whatever the Trumpster’s say it is.

24
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:16:15pm
25
Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:18:13pm

BTW - if you’re really interested in Breitbart’s business model, check out the report on SimilarWeb - similarweb.com

They get almost 50% of their traffic via “Direct.” Which in and of itself is not all that fishy … but if you drill down, you’ll see that a lot of that direct traffic is being “laundered” through proxy servers here in the U.S.

That, or a lot of Breitbart users are over-indexing for using proxies to connect to the site.

That could mean that they’ve got a sophisticated Ad Fraud operation in place, where botnet traffic (so you get a lot of different MAC addresses) is filtered through the proxies, to make it look like you’ve actually got tens of millions of people in the audience, when in reality, you’re just running a scam on your advertisers.

If they kick up too much of a fuss with Kellogg’s, the ad agencies could demand a full accounting of the traffic …

26
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:18:42pm

When Obama bailed out GM and saved 1.2 million auto industry jobs (including *ahem* MY OWN) wingnuts swarmed my Twitter feed all HURR HURR HE DID IT FOR TEH YOONYUN THUGEZ TO PUT MONEYS IN THERE OWN POCKETS!!!!!! and I’m like, Chrysler CEO makes $66 million/year. GM CEO makes $28 million/yr. Ford CEO makes $18 million/year. Top-ranking UAW officer makes $163K/yr.

27
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:22:30pm

Charles…or anyone…

I’ve seen some big numbers thrown around about Breitbart having millions of viewers. I think I saw something like 40 + million or something.

How would they know the actual numbers? Do they base it on members and if so do they have big membership numbers? Do they look at unique view numbers or just hits?

I know nothing about the site, only what I read here. I think I’ve linked to them a couple times but high-tailed it out of there fast.

28
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:23:41pm

Decided to check the news to get some idea of how the Walter Scott trial played out. And just found out that Slager took the stand, which is usually a sign in a murder trial that the defendant has nothing left but an emotional plea to the jury (11 white, 1 black). And sure enough, he sat up there to play the two strongest cards in every white cop’s deck: “scary black man” and “I don’t recall.”

29
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:25:22pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

Decided to check the news to get some idea of how the Walter Scott trial played out. And just found out that Slager took the stand, which is usually a sign in a murder trial that the defendant has nothing left but an emotional plea to the jury (11 white, 1 black). And sure enough, he sat up there to play the two strongest cards in every white cop’s deck: “scary black man” and “I don’t recall.”

Also, his mind was like spaghetti after his exhausting chase or some such crap.

30
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:25:34pm

re: #27 ObserverArt

They do have a lot of viewers, but most people think their estimate of 40 million+ per month is wildly inflated. Still, it’s clear from the number of comments they get that they do have an audience in the millions. The brand of nastiness they sell is very popular with people who support Donald Trump.

31
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:28:10pm

re: #29 BeachDem

Also, his mind was like spaghetti after his exhausting chase or some such crap.

And he made sure to put a “weapon” (the taser) in Scott’s hands as a reason for being “afraid,” even though it’s pretty clear in the video that Slager used the taser on Scott and not vice versa.

32
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:31:06pm

re: #7 Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)

As this starts to starve these fucksticks of the ad money they depend on, look for ever-more-panicked screams about “First Amendment Violashuns!!11!”

My page yesterday was about the tech solutions emerging; the sad fact is that a lot of the ad inventory (including the ads on this here site) are sold via what are known as “Ad Exchanges” where there is “Real-Time Bidding” on ad inventory. The advertiser is merely buying an audience - say, of 24-35 year old males in the midwest who have recently streamed alt-rock music. Via the magic of internet cookies, that audience is aggregated & available on these Ad Exchanges.

Advertisers are belatedly waking up to the fact that the audience they are buying is toxic; and the messaging their ads are placed next to the stomach-wrenching neo-Nazi spew of the Breitbart/Free Republic/Gateway Pundit content.

It’s the online advertising equivalent of putting your billboard in a puddle of raw sewage.

I’ve been wondering about the way online ads work for some time. All I will say is I think there is getting to be a point where a re-think of online advertising is needed all up and down the internet.

I’m not against ads…be pretty hypocritical since I have a degree in Communication/Advertising Design.

I think there needs to be a tech breakout of how they are delivered, such as load times, hang-ups, ride-along bullshit, etc. It needs to be more efficient and then it really might help the advertisers more. Tech people that break new delivery of ads are gonna be a big winner.

33
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:35:42pm

I think I know what Mattis is trying to do by accepting this position, and it is not because he supports Mr. Trump: Mattis is sacrificing himself.

He knows that this will not end well, but he’s doing it in order to preserve what he can of the military for the long-term, despite Trump. And he knows that he scares Trump. And so, he is essentially offering himself up as a shield. He knows his history, and he believes in civil control of the military. But in this case, and I suspect in only such a unique case as that of Trump, Mattis may have reached the conclusion that the nation’s armed forces need protection from their own commander.

34
CriticalDragon1177  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:38:00pm

Charles Johnson,

How long until the wingnuts realize that boycotts don’t work for them? Probably never?

35
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:39:23pm
36
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:41:54pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

We were stung by the peas in guac; we aren’t falling for this beezness.

37
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:42:08pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

And he made sure to put a “weapon” (the taser) in Scott’s hands as a reason for being “afraid,” even though it’s pretty clear in the video that Slager used the taser on Scott and not vice versa.

And miraculously changed his story once the video came to light.

38
sagehen  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:42:36pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

And he made sure to put a “weapon” (the taser) in Scott’s hands as a reason for being “afraid,” even though it’s pretty clear in the video that Slager used the taser on Scott and not vice versa.

And screamed into his microphone that Scott was trying to take his weapon, so there’d be audio backup of the story he was already planning to tell.

39
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:45:40pm
40
Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:46:05pm

re: #32 ObserverArt

I’ve been wonder about the way online ads work for some time. All I will say is I think there is getting to be a point where a re-think of online advertising is needed all up and down the internet.

I’m not against ads…be pretty hypocritical since I have a degree in Communication/Advertising Design.

I think there needs to be a tech breakout of how they are delivered, such as load times, hang-ups, ride-along bullshit, etc. It needs to be more efficient and then it really might help the advertisers more. Tech people that break new delivery of ads are gonna be a big winner.

There are some people in the industry who are taking this very, very seriously.

One of them is the new owner of the Washington Post. Jeff Bezos.

His Chief Revenue Officer has his hair on fire over the clickfraud & inefficiency of the online ad space. To Bezos, this is like a giant open candy store.

Imagine the opportunity for one centralized Amazon Ad Server that strips out all the 700+ server calls that come with a typical shitty digital ad … and that also cracks down on all the Fake News sites. Run by a tough-ass billionaire who DESPISES Trump…

41
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:48:51pm

re: #23 Skip Intro

There are no facts anymore. Truth is whatever the Trumpster’s say it is.

Oh, it’s worse than that. The none facts have to be accepted by the people they are aimed at. That is what scares me…people buy them. It might just be their need for confirmation, but if there is zero push back and study to find the truth, we are far down the slippery slope.

42
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:51:33pm
43
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:51:38pm

re: #22 Belafon

From what I understand, companies have continued to stay away from Limbaugh.

Indeed, the majority of talk radio has indeed been - and continues to be - labeled as “toxic” for advertisers.

(Note: the linked and quoted blogger used to be a talk radio programmer for iHeartMedia and WLW… so YMMV. It’s this terminology that intrigues me.)

Whipped up by social media, advertisers began bailing not only on Limbaugh’s show, but talk radio in general. Radio networks, which were always licenses to print money, quickly began losing advertisers, even if the networks had no association with Limbaugh. Advertisers said they wanted no spots broadcast in Limbaugh’s show or other conservative talk shows that were guilty simply through association. There were always “no buy” lists in radio, as advertisers tried to avoid controversial programs, but now the “no buy” lists were being expanded to entire stations.

Ever hear of “toxic” and “non-toxic” stations? That’s how talk radio stations were grouped after Limbaugh’s mistake. When I was first informed of these terms, I thought it was a joke. It wasn’t. If a station carried Limbaugh or other shows like Hannity, Beck and others, they were considered toxic by networks, rep firms, agencies and advertisers. If a station didn’t carry those shows they were categorized as non-toxic and considered advertiser friendly.

In the months that followed, one radio network’s revenues dropped by 38% as many long time advertisers wanted nothing more to do with what was considered toxic talk radio. You see, it wasn’t advertisers dropping from Limbaugh’s show, as bloggers, social media and Limbaugh’s enemies would have you believe. It was advertisers avoiding toxic talk radio stations all together!

Couple that with the graying and dying demographics that comprise the majority of talk radio’s audience, of course.

44
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:55:08pm

re: #34 CriticalDragon1177

Charles Johnson,

How long until the wingnuts realize that boycotts don’t work for them? Probably never?

One can only hope.

45
CriticalDragon1177  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:55:48pm

Speaking of fighting actual bigotry and intolerance, unlike Breitbart, which is just angry Kellogs won’t tolerate their intolerance, here’s some things you can do to hopefully prevent Jeff Sessions from becoming our next Attorney General

46
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:59:42pm

re: #39 Citizen K

[Embedded content]

In other words, the more evidence that comes in, the more obvious it becomes that racism was a factor in Trump’s victory.

47
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:02:45pm

re: #29 BeachDem

Also, his mind was like spaghetti after his exhausting chase or some such crap.

Then he is not fit to be a cop.

48
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:04:26pm

re: #38 sagehen

And screamed into his microphone that Scott was trying to take his weapon, so there’d be audio backup of the story he was already planning to tell.

I wonder if he had that already practiced? As quick as it seemed to happen, it sure seems like he had a plan. And a plan means he had previously thought about scenarios.

I flipped to MSNBC and luckily caught a few minutes of Ari Melber, who seems to tell law stuff straight up. He was saying the defense is hanging a lot of their case on what they claim is not seen on any recordings.

I wonder what that is all about? I don’t get how there would be any big time holes in this one.

Guy gets pulled over…cop goes to car and then walks back to run his info…guy gets out and runs…cop goes after him and appears to taser him and that doesn’t work and guy again runs, cop shoots him.

Where is all that evidence showing it is some big and dangerous fight over the taser? The cop didn’t even look disheveled when he shot him. It all looked way too calm for having ever been heated.

Oh wait…we just had a thread about facts aren’t facts.

49
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:06:16pm
50
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:07:59pm

re: #40 Khal Wimpo (no longer entitled to his own facts)

There are some people in the industry who are taking this very, very seriously.

One of them is the new owner of the Washington Post. Jeff Bezos.

His Chief Revenue Officer has his hair on fire over the clickfraud & inefficiency of the online ad space. To Bezos, this is like a giant open candy store.

Imagine the opportunity for one centralized Amazon Ad Server that strips out all the 700+ server calls that come with a typical shitty digital ad … and that also cracks down on all the Fake News sites. Run by a tough-ass billionaire who DESPISES Trump…

[Embedded content]

I wonder if there could be preplanned ads put onto servers all over the place that feed the sites so that ads come off the same servers the site comes off of. You could keep adding new ads to the server, but the server would only run ads that are already loaded previously, then run new ones in the next cycle. Might make some bucks for hosting companies too.

51
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:08:23pm
52
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:12:08pm

re: #42 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Someone should Storify that tweetstorm. When I read it, I was floored.

(I’d do it, but I don’t tweet and have no idea how to use Storify.)

53
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:14:20pm
54
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:14:45pm

re: #48 ObserverArt

I wonder if he had that already practiced? As quick as it seemed to happen, it sure seems like he had a plan. And a plan means he had previously thought about scenarios.

I flipped to MSNBC and luckily caught a few minutes of Ari Melber, who seems to tell law stuff straight up. He was saying the defense is hanging a lot of their case on what they claim is not seen on any recordings.

I wonder what that is all about? I don’t get how there would be any big time holes in this one.

Guy gets pulled over…cop goes to car and then walks back to run his info…guy gets out and runs…cop goes after him and appears to taser him and that doesn’t work and guy again runs, cop shoots him.

Where is all that evidence showing it is some big and dangerous fight over the taser? The cop didn’t even look disheveled when he shot him. It all looked way too calm for having ever been heated.

Oh wait…we just had a thread about facts aren’t facts.

It’s the classic white cop defense: “Scary black man had a weapon, I was just protecting myself, and I can’t explain why my recollection of events is totally at odds with the evidence.” All the jury has to hear is “the cop was afraid” and immediately an airtight case becomes a fight in the jury chambers over why the cop should be allowed to skate because he was “afraid.”

55
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:19:44pm

Not sure I agree with the analysis but worth a read:

56
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:21:37pm

Mostly because Coulter’s not getting the robes and hoods she wanted and was essentially promised during the campaign.

57
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:22:33pm
58
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:23:35pm

re: #19 Targetpractice

Once again proving that even when a case is a “slam dunk,” a white cop has at least a 50/50 chance of acquittal for killing a black man.

I’d say the odds are even better than that for the cop. What do they need, a confession?

59
Weaselone  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:23:57pm

re: #55 Timothy Watson

It’s a perfectly reasonable analysis, but the headline is pure, rancid click bait.

60
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:24:04pm

re: #55 Timothy Watson

Not sure I agree with the analysis but worth a read:

[Embedded content]

I think it’s easier to just say that the Obama Coalition didn’t show up and the Klan did.

61
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:25:26pm

re: #56 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Mostly because Coulter’s not getting the robes and hoods she wanted and was essentially promised during the campaign.

Poor Ann, David Duke isn’t going to be in the cabinet and she’s sad.

62
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:27:55pm

Meanwhile at the Slager trial:

*facepalm* You’re telling everyone that it’s okay if a white cop kills a black guy who was not a threat to the cop and was running away. A white cop who then was caught tampering with the scene and evidence. A white cop who you think isn’t guilty?

There’s a reason why PoC don’t trust cops and why I’m worried for my friends who are PoC or are minorities (religious). This is why. Not just in the Slager case, but in the totality of all the recent cop-shootings. Even when a PoC does everything by the book and follows all the rules and instructions, and follows the law, he or she can and will still end up dead because a cop thinks the person is acting hinky - and the catchall excuse that amounts to the person being a threat of imminent physical harm (whether it’s true or not) - is enough to sentence the person to death.

It’s why open carry doesn’t extend to minorities - we saw it with Tamir Rice and John Crawford. It’s a double standard, but the GOP and their judicial picks will make sure that none of this is addressed - or reverse whatever paltry gains and protections have been made in recent years.

63
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:28:00pm

wow…one juror wrote note to judge that he cant find guilt in Walter Scott case.
jury foreman, in separate note, says only one juror has an issue.

64
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:28:05pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

I think it’s easier to just say that the Obama Coalition didn’t show up and the Klan did.

I’m reluctant to engage in blaming generations too honestly.

65
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:29:05pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Meanwhile at the Slager trial:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm* You’re telling everyone that it’s okay if a white cop kills a black guy who was not a threat to the cop and was running away. A white cop who then was caught tampering with the scene and evidence. A white cop who you think isn’t guilty?

There’s a reason why PoC don’t trust cops and why I’m worried for my friends who are PoC or are minorities (religious). This is why. Not just in the Slager case, but in the totality of all the recent cop-shootings. Even when a PoC does everything by the book and follows all the rules and instructions, and follows the law, he or she can and will still end up dead because a cop thinks the person is acting hinky - and the catchall excuse that amounts to the person being a threat of imminent physical harm (whether it’s true or not) - is enough to sentence the person to death.

It’s why open carry doesn’t extend to minorities - we saw it with Tamir Rice and John Crawford. It’s a double standard, but the GOP and their judicial picks will make sure that none of this is addressed - or reverse whatever paltry gains and protections have been made in recent years.

Sigh.

66
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:30:05pm

Btw I did read the article on that town in Italy that Wheat brought up earlier about being welcoming to immigrants. Terrific article.

67
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:30:18pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

I’m reluctant to engage in blaming generations too honestly.

It’s ALWAYS bad to overgeneralize.

68
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:30:27pm
69
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:32:05pm
70
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:32:38pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

I’m reluctant to engage in blaming generations too honestly.

As a millennial, I’m perfectly willing to say most of the people of my generation are spoiled children who have grown up in an environment where they feel that sitting on their ass and pouting is a perfectly valid form of “protest.”

71
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:33:34pm
72
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:33:46pm
73
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:34:29pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

As a millennial, I’m perfectly willing to same most of the people of my generation are spoiled children who have grown up in an environment where they feel that sitting on their ass and pouting is a perfectly valid form of “protest.”

I’ve previously mentioned how pissed I am with these protesters who didn’t even bother to vote.

74
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:34:49pm

re: #57 Backwoods_Sleuth

Fake news website reports fake news about fake news:
Execu-Fib Order
A story that the President is banning all fake news came from — you guessed it — a fake news site.

I think we are all in an M. C. Escher print.

75
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:34:58pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Meanwhile at the Slager trial:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm* You’re telling everyone that it’s okay if a white cop kills a black guy who was not a threat to the cop and was running away. A white cop who then was caught tampering with the scene and evidence. A white cop who you think isn’t guilty?

There’s a reason why PoC don’t trust cops and why I’m worried for my friends who are PoC or are minorities (religious). This is why. Not just in the Slager case, but in the totality of all the recent cop-shootings. Even when a PoC does everything by the book and follows all the rules and instructions, and follows the law, he or she can and will still end up dead because a cop thinks the person is acting hinky - and the catchall excuse that amounts to the person being a threat of imminent physical harm (whether it’s true or not) - is enough to sentence the person to death.

It’s why open carry doesn’t extend to minorities - we saw it with Tamir Rice and John Crawford. It’s a double standard, but the GOP and their judicial picks will make sure that none of this is addressed - or reverse whatever paltry gains and protections have been made in recent years.

And given the racial make-up of this jury, the odds that the one hold-out is either a little old white woman or some backwoods redneck is pretty high.

76
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:35:32pm

re: #68 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

NM has a good atty general too, who I think will go places, but NM is is the launching pad for Gary Johnson, Bill Richardson and suchlike duds.

77
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:35:43pm

re: #71 Backwoods_Sleuth

Looks like there was construction work either in or adjacent to the structure that collapsed (one of the photos shows scaffolding, probably on a common wall area).

78
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:35:45pm

re: #69 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

The president-elect is a dangerous buffoon.

79
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:37:24pm

re: #72 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

So in just a week’s time, he’s already begun to damage US relations with China and India. Obviously we were right in electing a rank amateur who has absolutely no idea how politics (particularly foreign policy) actually works.

80
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:37:44pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Meanwhile at the Slager trial:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm* You’re telling everyone that it’s okay if a white cop kills a black guy who was not a threat to the cop and was running away. A white cop who then was caught tampering with the scene and evidence. A white cop who you think isn’t guilty?

There’s a reason why PoC don’t trust cops and why I’m worried for my friends who are PoC or are minorities (religious). This is why. Not just in the Slager case, but in the totality of all the recent cop-shootings. Even when a PoC does everything by the book and follows all the rules and instructions, and follows the law, he or she can and will still end up dead because a cop thinks the person is acting hinky - and the catchall excuse that amounts to the person being a threat of imminent physical harm (whether it’s true or not) - is enough to sentence the person to death.

It’s why open carry doesn’t extend to minorities - we saw it with Tamir Rice and John Crawford. It’s a double standard, but the GOP and their judicial picks will make sure that none of this is addressed - or reverse whatever paltry gains and protections have been made in recent years.

It’s all about the white working man isn’t it…and why Trump won? /

81
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:37:57pm

re: #76 wrenchwench

NM has a good atty general too, who I think will go places, but NM is is the launching pad for Gary Johnson, Bill Richardson and suchlike duds.

As the article notes, we’ve got a D supermajority* here in CA, which gives the potential for some legislative backup as needed.

* That’s why our economy is in the toilet, we’re bleeding jobs, and the state can’t make the budget work, don’tcha know.

82
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:38:37pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

As a millennial, I’m perfectly willing to say most of the people of my generation are spoiled children who have grown up in an environment where they feel that sitting on their ass and pouting is a perfectly valid form of “protest.”

re: #73 Timothy Watson

I’ve previously mentioned how pissed I am with these protesters who didn’t even bother to vote.

I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just hesitant is all because it just gets ugly when we play the blame game.

83
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:39:48pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just hesitant is all because it just gets ugly when we play the blame game.

Yet we’ve been playing it in one form or another for nearly a month now. How many times has somebody here pointed the finger at Stein and her supporters and received sage nods?

84
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:40:17pm
85
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:40:21pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

And given the racial make-up of this jury, the odds that the one hold-out is either a little old white woman or some backwoods redneck is pretty high.

I was on a six person jury in Portland, OR that had one holdout on a guilty verdict against a cop for hassling a guy. This holdout was a fairly deaf old man who could NOT take the word of a 20-something guy against the word of a cop. All white in that case.

86
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:41:08pm

re: #74 ObserverArt

I think we are all in an M. C. Escher print.

I was thinking more Hieronymus Bosch.

87
Jenner7  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:08pm

Sooo, Slager is going to get away with murder.

Damn.

88
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:10pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Yet we’ve been playing it in one form or another for nearly a month now. How many times has somebody here pointed the finger at Stein and her supporters and received sage nods?

True fair enough.

89
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:27pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just hesitant is all because it just gets ugly when we play the blame game.

I am not trying to play the blame game, I know it wasn’t just millennials that seemed apathetic and overconfident.

I am, however, more than willing to throw this in their face for the next election as a “learning experience”.

90
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:30pm

re: #86 Blind Frog Belly White

I was thinking more Hieronymus Bosch.

Hmmm. Good pick.

Maybe once we figure how to get up the down staircase we make it through the door to see the Bosch hellscape!

91
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:39pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Yet we’ve been playing it in one form or another for nearly a month now. How many times has somebody here pointed the finger at Stein and her supporters and received sage nods?

It’s natural. There’s the idea that if we can just figure out where it went wrong, we can fix it for next time.

Also, if you can blame someone else, then it’s not your fault.

There’s plenty of blame to go around, so the bigger focus should be what we can do to make a difference. IDing things like voter suppression and how we can work to combat that, both legislatively and through supporting voters at risk of being disenfranchised by strict voter ID laws and working to help them get the documents they need, for example.

It can feel overwhelming. The blame game is easier.

92
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:44:52pm

re: #87 Jenner7

Sooo, Slager is going to get away with murder.

Damn.

Just another fun day in Trumps America.

93
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:46:04pm

re: #87 Jenner7

Sooo, Slager is going to get away with murder.

Damn.

Not necessarily, if there’s a hung jury a mistrial will be declared and he could be retried.

94
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:46:28pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

So in just a week’s time, he’s already begun to damage US relations with China and India. Obviously we were right in electing a rank amateur who has absolutely no idea how politics (particularly foreign policy) actually works.

This was my biggest issue during the election. Foreign policy experience is an absolute must for anyone seeking the presidency. My libertarian friends think we should retract from the rest of the world and “be done with it”. When I tell them if them that were to happen too quickly, then it would be catastrophic to our allies and the world at large, they couldn’t care less. One even went so far as to say that was good and it’d be “their problem”. They have zero foresight as to the consequences. It can be maddening talking to them sometimes.

95
bratwurst  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:46:54pm
96
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:46:56pm

re: #89 Timothy Watson

I am not trying to play the blame game, I know it wasn’t just millennials that seemed apathetic and overconfident.

I am, however, more than willing to throw this in their face for the next election as a “learning experience”.

Nah you weren’t and believe me a lot of our generation’s attitude and approaches bother me but they unlike me haven’t lost their idealism yet. Bernie would have been my guy twelve years ago but I’ve learned a lot since then.

97
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:47:42pm

re: #90 ObserverArt

Hmmm. Good pick.

Maybe once we figure how to get up the down staircase we make it through the door to see the Bosch hellscape!

Then there’s the Albrecht Escher woodcut of a pair of praying hands, drawing each other….

98
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:48:32pm

re: #93 Timothy Watson

Not necessarily, if there’s a hung jury a mistrial will be declared and he could be retried.

“Could be” being the operative words. The prosecutor could just as well say that he doesn’t figure that a second trial would end any differently and just choose to let Slager walk.

99
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:48:42pm

Evening Lizardim.

100
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:49:15pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

“Could be” being the operative words. The prosecutor could just as well say that he doesn’t figure that a second trial would end any differently and just choose to let Slager walk.

Unless he wants to see Charleston burned to the ground that would be…unwise.

101
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:50:26pm

re: #87 Jenner7

Sooo, Slager is going to get away with murder.

Damn.

They could decide to re-try. Also, Federal civil case still to come…but yeah, this sucks.

102
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:50:32pm

re: #94 Arkansawyer

This was my biggest issue during the election. Foreign policy experience is an absolute must for anyone seeking the presidency. My libertarian friends think we should retract from the rest of the world and “be done with it”. When I tell them if them that were to happen too quickly, then it would be catastrophic to our allies and the world at large, they couldn’t care less. One even went so far as to say that was good and it’d be “their problem”. They have zero foresight as to the consequences. It can be maddening talking to them sometimes.

It’s not 1918, America isn’t so self-sufficient that it could afford to withdraw back to its own borders and function in anything but a disjointed manner. We need our allies as much as they need us, in some cases more because we rely upon them for the raw materials that we turn into finished products for our domestic market, and countries like Russia would be eager to move in and cut that lifeline.

103
BlackPearl  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:52:35pm

re: #32 ObserverArt

So, I don’t actually work for this part of the company, but I work for the big scarlet A and we are trying very hard to make it clear what are true ad results and what are bogus. That market is very large and lucrative and we are explicitly trying to clarify what is and is not a real advertising response.

I hope that means that organizations like Breitbart lose ad revenue, but if there’s a real set of readers…

104
Jenner7  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:52:55pm

re: #72 lawhawk

Then there is this.

Trump wants to expand business empire to Taiwan, creating another potential conflict of interest
shanghaiist.com

105
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:53:34pm

Sounds like a mistrial is about to be declared in South Carolina.

Uggghhh!

This country. Damn, as an old peace, love and understanding disciple it sure is getting hard to understand where we are heading and why.

106
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:53:58pm

Am I a millennial though? I turn 30 next year.

107
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:54:28pm

re: #72 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I suppose saying “He’s like a bull in a China shop!” is a bit too on-the-nose.

108
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:00pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

Am I a millennial though? I turn 30 next year.

Yes. If I’m stuck with it so are you.

109
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:22pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

Am I a millennial though? I turn 30 next year.

Yes.

110
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:29pm

re: #58 Big Beautiful Door

I’d say the odds are even better than that for the cop. What do they need, a confession?

Well, the guy who killed Joe McKnight admitted he was the shooter, but the sheriff said not to believe what you’re reading because, although they have no video and have not yet found any witnesses, they KNOW the shooter was in his car when he shot and that he did not stand over McKnight and fire, and that there is no witness that heard McKnight apologizing. (How, with no video and no witnesses, they KNOW that the most advantageous story for the shooter is true, I do not know, but…)

111
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:31pm

re: #105 ObserverArt

112
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:44pm

re: #100 Timothy Watson

Unless he wants to see Charleston burned to the ground that would be…unwise.

It’s been over a year since the case first broke, if the prosecutor just let this end in a mistrial, odds are there would be an initial flash of anger that would die out by Sunday.

113
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:55:59pm

I really think an 11-1 majority should be enough…

114
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:56:06pm

re: #108 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Yes. If I’m stuck with it so are you.

This, right here.

115
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:56:32pm
116
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:56:33pm

re: #113 Eclectic Cyborg

I really think an 11-1 majority should be enough…

I understand the idea behind requiring unanimity, but I think an exception should be made if it can be demonstrated that the holdout is being irrational.

117
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:57:42pm

re: #104 Jenner7

Then there is this.

Trump wants to expand business empire to Taiwan, creating another potential conflict of interest
shanghaiist.com

Warren Harding could only begin to dream of the shit that Trump is gonna stir to fill his pocket.

118
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:58:55pm

re: #108 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Yes. If I’m stuck with it so are you.

Could be worse. Could be a Gen Xer wink.

119
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:59:09pm

re: #116 thedopefishlives

I understand the idea behind requiring unanimity, but I think an exception should be made if it can be demonstrated that the holdout is being irrational.

It’s why we have alternate jurors. The judge should consider whether or not this hold-out is doing so based upon the evidence or personal bias. Since the note seems to indicate that it’s the latter, then he should have them removed and an alternate seated in order to continue the deliberations.

120
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:59:41pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Well buh bye cabinet Sarah.

121
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:59:57pm

re: #116 thedopefishlives

I understand the idea behind requiring unanimity, but I think an exception should be made if it can be demonstrated that the holdout is being irrational.

Seriously. If the Supreme Court can settle something by a 5-4 margin why should juries have to be 12-0?

122
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:00:02pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

Am I a millennial though? I turn 30 next year.

wikipedia:

demographers and researchers typically use the early-1980s as starting birth years and ending birth years ranging from the mid-1990s to early-2000s.

123
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:00:06pm

re: #102 Targetpractice

It’s not 1918, America isn’t so self-sufficient that it could afford to withdraw back to its own borders and function in anything but a disjointed manner. We need our allies as much as they need us, in some cases more because we rely upon them for the raw materials that we turn into finished products for our domestic market, and countries like Russia would be eager to move in and cut that lifeline.

Bingo. I realize the way I wrote that comes off as the world needing the US and the US not needing them. Just want to clarify, that wasn’t my intended message. It’s been a long week, so forgive me for being a bit scatterbrained.

124
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:00:16pm

re: #109 blueraven

Yes.

Thought so.

125
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:00:59pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

So in just a week’s time, he’s already begun to damage US relations with China and India. Obviously we were right in electing a rank amateur who has absolutely no idea how politics (particularly foreign policy) actually works.

And is too busy with his victory (sorry, Thank You) tour to make time for intelligence briefings. But, not to worry, his kids and son-in-law are on it, I’m sure.

126
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:01:03pm

re: #121 Eclectic Cyborg

Seriously. If the Supreme Court can settle something by. 5-4 margin why should juries have to be 12-0

Generally, because cases that are to be decided by a jury of one’s peers should be airtight enough to convince twelve reasonably-minded peers without any exceptions. The trouble there is the “reasonably-minded” part.

127
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:01:23pm

re: #123 Arkansawyer

Bingo. I realize the way I wrote that comes off as the world needing the US and the US not needing them. Just want to clarify, that wasn’t my intended message. It’s been a long week, so forgive me for being a bit scatterbrained.

Don’t worry, I don’t think it’s your opinion. I’ve just heard the “America should go it alone!” argument so many times that I know most of it by heart. This idea that we can become an island unto ourselves, just close the borders and be totally self-sufficient, is strong among those who want to believe that all of America’s problems lie outside her borders.

128
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:01:38pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

POLITICO ✔ @politico
Sarah Palin: Trump’s Carrier deal is ‘crony capitalism’ politi.co | Getty
4:37 PM - 2 Dec 2016
113 113 Retweets 150 150 likes

Uh oh…Sarah is getting set to run for President next go-round. She is taking a stand against Trump…

129
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:02:56pm

Mind you I am not advocating for 7-5 Jury decisions but I think 10 plus in agreement would be more than fair.

130
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:03:47pm

re: #128 ObserverArt

Uh oh…Sarah is getting set to run for President next go-round. She is taking a stand against Trump…

Remember when you could depend on the American people not to elect someone so blatantly unqualified and so clearly a shameless grifter to the Presidency?

Good times.

131
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:04:08pm

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Mind you I am not advocating for 7-5 Jury decisions but I think 10 plus in agreement would be more than fair.

I dunno. Have to think about it.

132
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:04:41pm

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Mind you I am not advocating for 7-5 Jury decisions but I think 10 plus in agreement would be more than fair.

“Twelve Angry Men” would have been a much shorter movie.

133
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:06:05pm

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Mind you I am not advocating for 7-5 Jury decisions but I think 10 plus in agreement would be more than fair.

Seriously, though, I prefer Blackstone’s Formulation, so I’ll stick with unanimity.

134
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:08:36pm

re: #132 Blind Frog Belly White

“Twelve Angry Men” would have been a much shorter movie.

Such an excellent movie, should be required viewing. I saw it in 12th grade government and seeing Gideon’s Trumpet in 8th have left a big impact on me as a paralegal.

135
danarchy  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:09:05pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

Could be worse. Could be a Gen Xer wink.

Hey now…

136
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:09:37pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

Don’t worry, I don’t think it’s your opinion. I’ve just heard the “America should go it alone!” argument so many times that I know most of it by heart. This idea that we can become an island unto ourselves, just close the borders and be totally self-sufficient, is strong among those who want to believe that all of America’s problems lie outside her borders.

I guess it’s just their stubbornness that really gets me. It’s gotta be all or nothing with almost any position their advocating.

137
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:10:33pm

re: #130 Blind Frog Belly White

Remember when you could depend on the American people not to elect someone so blatantly unqualified and so clearly a shameless grifter to the Presidency?

Good times.

She’s gonna break that glass ceiling…or something.

But yeah, she might see an opening.

138
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:10:35pm

harset=”utf-8”></script>
139
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:11:25pm

re: #132 Blind Frog Belly White

“Twelve Angry Men” would have been a much shorter movie.

I still love that film, but I’m such a cynic these days that I can’t see it as anything but an idealized fantasy. That in the real world, Fonda’s character would either have been cut off by the judge from retrying the case in the jury chambers, have forced a hung jury that would lead to a retrial where the prosecutor would try to weed out another Fonda in pursuit of a quick conviction, or the rest of the jury would have just kept browbeating him until he accepted a “promise” that the kid would get a light sentence for killing his dad.

140
baileylamb  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:11:35pm

re: #45 CriticalDragon1177

Speaking of fighting actual bigotry and intolerance, unlike Breitbart, which is just angry Kellogs won’t tolerate their intolerance, here’s some things you can do to hopefully prevent Jeff Sessions from becoming our next Attorney General

[Embedded content]

My husband said that the ppl who need to lead this fight are mom’s of kids with various special needs.

Sadly , he’s probably right. Many Americans (including some more pure than thou) won’t care about Sessions history of civil rights (renamed identity politics by some on the left and the right).

But what Sessions has said about educating special needs kids (he doesn’t think public schools should have to) might be a bridge to far.

141
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:11:55pm

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Mind you I am not advocating for 7-5 Jury decisions but I think 10 plus in agreement would be more than fair.

Problem is you are dealing with someone’s life…possibly their death. Burden should be high.

142
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:12:17pm

re: #135 danarchy

Hey now…

Kidding.

143
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:14:05pm

re: #141 blueraven

Problem is you are dealing with someone’s life…possibly their death. Burden should be high.

Oh to wish the Police held that same thought about how they go about policing.

144
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:14:26pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

I still love that film, but I’m such a cynic these days that I can’t see it as anything but an idealized fantasy. That in the real world, Fonda’s character would either have been cut off by the judge from retrying the case in the jury chambers, have forced a hung jury that would lead to a retrial where the prosecutor would try to weed out another Fonda in pursuit of a quick conviction, or the rest of the jury would have just kept browbeating him until he accepted a “promise” that the kid would get a light sentence for killing his dad.

I always saw Fonda or Gregory Peck as the perfect actors to play my dad’s dad in a hypothetical movie. Clint Eastwood for my other grandpa. That movie is so good. I watched it again in paralegal class and as I said, it should be required viewing, Fonda was also good in Gideon’s Trumpet.

145
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:14:31pm

This happened, and AP said nothing? What the fuck?

146
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:14:32pm

re: #137 ObserverArt

She’s gonna break that glass ceiling…or something.

But yeah, she might see an opening.

147
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:15:01pm

re: #145 makeitstop

This happened, and AP said nothing? What the fuck?

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Because that might have resulted in a backlash against Drumpf?

148
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:15:22pm

re: #141 blueraven

Problem is you are dealing with someone’s life…possibly their death. Burden should be high.

Which is why we convict based on beyond a reasonable doubt. A lot of tough on crime types don’t get it.

149
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:16:44pm

re: #143 ObserverArt

Oh to wish the Police held that same thought about how they go about policing.

A shame only one black person on that jury. Call me cynical, but I am betting he/she wasn’t the lone holdout to guilt.

150
blueraven  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:18:26pm

re: #145 makeitstop

This happened, and AP said nothing? What the fuck?

[Embedded content]

but emails.

151
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:18:30pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

Which is why we convict based on beyond a reasonable doubt. A lot of tough on crime types don’t get it.

Also the presumption of innocence, and the ban on double jeopardy.

152
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:20:31pm

re: #149 blueraven

A shame only one black person on that jury. Call me cynical, but I am betting he/she wasn’t the lone holdout to guilt.

I was just thinking that if there were more black folks on the jury - or majority black - that if the vote was to convict there would be a huge uproar from the Blue Lives Matter crowd that it was a racist jury and not a jury of peers and there was no way he could get a fair trial.

But only one black person and none of them will blink an eye if there’s a mistrial. And heaven forbid you point this out, because they’re not racist, not at all!

And again, I don’t know how you have that conversation if someone is so set on a viewpoint that facts don’t penetrate. Or aren’t facts.

/sigh

153
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:22:22pm
154
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:25:19pm

re: #152 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I was just thinking that if there were more black folks on the jury - or majority black - that if the vote was to convict there would be a huge uproar from the Blue Lives Matter crowd that it was a racist jury and not a jury of peers and there was no way he could get a fair trial.

But only one black person and none of them will blink an eye if there’s a mistrial. And heaven forbid you point this out, because they’re not racist, not at all!

And again, I don’t know how you have that conversation if someone is so set on a viewpoint that facts don’t penetrate. Or aren’t facts.

/sigh

Black people can’t be fair because they have a dog in the fight, with the victim being black and the perp being white. But white people will be totally unaffected by the perp being white and the victim being black.

Because white is default. White is Normal, and all else is Not Normal.
///

155
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:27:09pm

Lusztig’s in the middle of a tweetstorm on this AP thing. I won’t link to it, because I’ve already posted so much of his stuff today, but he raises an excellent point - if the media continues to show their bellies to Trump and let him actually put employees in physical jeopardy, the end result is that we’re just going to say ‘fuck it’ and Trump will push it even further.

The media has to draw a line, now. Or they’re gonna start beating reporters and crew members. Someone is gonna get bad hurt or killed if they don’t stand up for themselves.

156
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:27:38pm

OT.

5/UEnWxpy87UPwXY4gTZTsKlz7TrZ0sl89Jg/Ow5Q+lPP1RP36ySv4ttky9bEStcMW6rWoSbtKAWk9lKjV6GluvTTwNyZsygBya+NZpY/zTvn1eYSKCkWRCEzGwEyHzlXh+6fp8/x+KUb79bYyJJ/7lWwJW0wTjLdN1VjB6Bz86NDtW55njdOaXw/yvuraRbpWL499pNlT2zvfgHsRCZ0A5/mcsp4dUqU/R2s360tt5Zvez40n2542knls0bHIOzKpBNK0UtnGE6rOTT5iFGFcIwwXfCwcDwpCIi7yhl8Oh9PgqOqt+xH50FcABLeKYgAOmxnxqDRlszHV4VBV8Hnm7tN38IXrLlFkMhg3sDmJ8o0rR58mdfDQl02g3VWT135hPSoYqdA+f4H+3a5YPi6myP2GUfQYLbTe7d1N1gGCPS4yOcpja+PrAlgEIVfYSa9PcC1646frKX5sOdD4cz++kLERiKfRLXu3u68JdCifA9ub+rkh2dEcBK6mWLLxvAntJV0G9g6bNmofVoj+jFp7btKEC30DV9uF5Q3FecPPWLsY8GfZ4ClKVAmC3416iaktArJaMkQzS2Ii4m2P2JtaMJcDJmgz4E2Urx9HVVQ/rTlYP+fHhjwPBX06qPvgtjDVJSXFm6uJ2mdD+J2EpuKZRPzAJuZ9qs8m+xXXXZ+0pVCpYXccrN6nZr6EtzI7EsJmghcX+FH3JezcRVxmvvtkdQ/ZZKgbT2wub1uvQBZOHIgByIvj8FZCCuM/uUTfNHoJkgjsKnLCk5F5+y0046NRDWPVKqvVdu84srI6QDTFUJrlSvdVQCwYUkLDvrU/koQ8VOIJucGP7/hfTZWiMSir1ZDZjYleWHY0CN/NKLZdHyJ+nr+Z8v9aEaheGFmWN2Pahkf62tVWWpCZdcAYVAjCVupqusgnZx3ZdwZaOJyUL9UXHMjv6dYUYNHsYb6nf0FBLmYG3EkuZf+57B66WyeCJ7JpDYyUNbc8UKs2aL6AnZAQWJvdOPRdO6OmyfqKWNT3zDqI/9YF0WaIHlFZe2JUeGd4Rqs0lXy6STHgfN0mDZNhVZjzhlhrwwhdNA4+KCAqjr8jxT8aYH2u4Z4Ue3snuVUyMYhu7/u4BQtFLJWFdWdS/Cz+v4fCQJ9ZS61J2lOEP3kXWYq03Va3pluAOhAgXQLSYBszQmDyXbwK7IaXfHBL2HxwXiIvRujnYj3xfjQF4F1GMUaN2biPJIRIA3IerbpSR0IyvxWVvCRPgrH3Ey1eAdhftTlSFNTa7dO7QmsPPTMvBIab7+l1+Eh9p4t/cVQhZMfSt7Z53J/J6aTAN1ioT1/vjN1OXfw8ZXM5Dpp5HM/Vi0fjgFqK6aG8VTveCxogdV3VsrY1+SIiGqukz4cvC2MiuF1Hfis34j23h7pt1lzJyNyGo=

157
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:29:23pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Can’t say I am too shocked.

158
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:29:42pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

Black people can’t be fair because they have a dog in the fight, with the victim being black and the perp being white. But white people will be totally unaffected by the perp being white and the victim being black.

Because white is default. White is Normal, and all else is Not Normal.
///

So true sigh.

159
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:32:16pm

re: #138 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

And you can be sure that Abe is getting heartburn over this back in Tokyo, as picking a fight with China over Taiwan is going to make Japan the front line when the shooting starts.

160
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:32:53pm

I’m starting to think those Doomsday Preppers voted for Trump so they wouldn’t feel stupid for worrying about something that wasn’t going to happen.

161
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:34:44pm

re: #156 klys (maker of Silmarils)

OT.

[Embedded content]

5zIVXf4xykPWNiBKv11A8rB0eXTTuKGUtogFMijg2qAzRTOWYzGvTsp/nyySVxJPApxuwTomiB9paIm0iTOplw==

162
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:35:29pm

re: #161 Feline Fearless Leader

1BZ+1Yegj+/fcG4rCAo0NABrujVwDCgogyhHWbvRlTcl30isqo4GucMlcIw7FcZn6rZNZS9qatiKdySxd85u3yZiFFjrOtQofsl7d3FF5L7dKYfGhvSdQB8Yx7leqtmn7JA/9RwnYD/1MH9Tc9aLweaLe0ytj8AS

163
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:38:27pm

re: #151 Blind Frog Belly White

Also the presumption of innocence, and the ban on double jeopardy.

Yep. I remember when Casey Anthony was acquitted. A lot of people because of how emotional that case and believe me especially an uncle of a little girl around the age of Caylee I can see why it was but there’s a very good reason why we don’t retry people who have been acquitted.

164
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:39:32pm
165
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:40:21pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

1. Bannon failed to pay or underpaid child and spousal support at a time when he was making $500,000 a year and was, according to documents he shared, worth much more.

2. Letters filed with the court by two school administrators allege that Bannon threatened them.

3. Bannon rarely saw his daughters and at one point did not see them for a full two years. During that time they had no idea where he lived.

4. In sworn declarations submitted to the court, Piccard says that Bannon was abusive towards his daughters.

Wow, what an asshole…

166
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:42:13pm

So, ummm, possibly a stupid question: if one loses one’s health insurance as provided through an employer because one quits the job, is that considered a qualifying life event from the point of view of the insurance exchange?

I know it says “You lose your employer-sponsored coverage.” is one but I want to be sure that includes losing that coverage because of a voluntary decision to leave the job.

167
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:02pm

re: #165 Eclectic Cyborg

At least we’re no longer hearing the endless litany of “family values”. That’s something. I guess.

168
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:10pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

But hey, brilliant populist firebrand that tapped into the impetuses of the white working class so long ignored!

…god, I wish I drank sometimes.

169
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:28pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

So, ummm, possibly a stupid question: if one loses one’s health insurance as provided through an employer because one quits the job, is that considered a qualifying life event from the point of view of the insurance exchange?

I know it says “You lose your employer-sponsored coverage.” is one but I want to be sure that includes losing that coverage because of a voluntary decision to leave the job.

Pretty sure that it counts, I don’t think the law distinguishes between voluntary separation or otherwise.

170
bratwurst  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:34pm

Give me a fucking break already.

How many surrogates does CNN need to hire before Trump starts to like them?

171
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:36pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

So, ummm, possibly a stupid question: if one loses one’s health insurance as provided through an employer because one quits the job, is that considered a qualifying life event from the point of view of the insurance exchange?

I know it says “You lose your employer-sponsored coverage.” is one but I want to be sure that includes losing that coverage because of a voluntary decision to leave the job.

It is currently open enrollment.

172
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:49pm

re: #168 Citizen K

But hey, brilliant populist firebrand that tapped into the impetuses of the white working class so long ignored!

…god, I wish I drank sometimes.

I can drink for you.

173
danarchy  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:44:11pm

re: #162 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

wr6083SrNdS+rf0Ok9P2j7748pK9o4aDPBdpeEqeuGZU5IleAnr0Ghoiy1XEtQzjeJLXIYPbiMHu+Afw1Ybt2CXFsb4xPhxtghs4BuceB/TxEyCXHO42EMgynY07dx2rqlUwyyjVT1B2+5I85HvDW8u4owtD7km695zNj/UXOlg63k0O7wum3vqIy4UpL2oIpegPD8sCOzZIt6ffB1IRVntYtkCtmSW9GA3FzpwuvDv9KzGWDO27VLX0M5sFZy2LVtwsd7+BYLA=

174
unproven innocence  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:44:17pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Meanwhile at the Slager trial:

*facepalm* You’re telling everyone that it’s okay if a white cop kills a black guy who was not a threat to the cop and was running away. A white cop who then was caught tampering with the scene and evidence. A white cop who you think isn’t guilty?

There’s a reason why PoC don’t trust cops and why I’m worried for my friends who are PoC or are minorities (religious). This is why. Not just in the Slager case, but in the totality of all the recent cop-shootings. Even when a PoC does everything by the book and follows all the rules and instructions, and follows the law, he or she can and will still end up dead because a cop thinks the person is acting hinky - and the catchall excuse that amounts to the person being a threat of imminent physical harm (whether it’s true or not) - is enough to sentence the person to death.

It’s why open carry doesn’t extend to minorities - we saw it with Tamir Rice and John Crawford. It’s a double standard, but the GOP and their judicial picks will make sure that none of this is addressed - or reverse whatever paltry gains and protections have been made in recent years.

There’s yet more to the John Crawford story:
John Crawford’s Girlfriend Mysteriously Dies In Car Crash
January 2, 2015 11:17 am by M. David

The New Year’s Day crash comes as police response to protests and “die ins” at the Beavercreek Walmart and Fairfield Commons Mall have drawn national scrutiny.

Police say that Thomas’ vehicle was traveling at nearly 100 miles per hour on a city street at 3 o’clock in the afternoon, when it crashed into a pole and overturned several times.

There is no explanation for why Thomas and Bailey would have been driving at such uncanny speeds on downtown Dayton streets in the middle of the afternoon.

Bolding is mine. I first became aware of this story within a few hours of the event. At the time, I thought it rather odd that the NBC news story (web page) was being hosted in Chantilly VA, according to my browser, so I took a screenshot (which I cannot presently access; drive died). IMO, circumstances of this crash seemed suspiciously like the crash in LA in which the reporter Michael Hastings died.

Chantilly VA — Notable local organizations

The headquarters[22] of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), which is one of the 17 U.S. intelligence agencies and considered, along with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), National Security Agency (NSA), Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and National Geospatial‐Intelligence Agency (NGA), to be one of the “big five” U.S. Intelligence agencies.[23]

175
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:44:20pm

re: #170 bratwurst

Give me a fucking break already.

[Embedded content]

How many surrogates does CNN need to hire before Trump starts to like them?

That dickhead? CNN really wants to be the enxt Fox.

176
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:45:10pm

re: #171 William Lewis

It is currently open enrollment.

cQgmLR8vKIDV83Grr7A+ZnfUWki/2w6fNMsiY2jGeG8T2xar6NzRCUlZsSKKLWk5wSHd+eDyNuB7z+6UDG2VPPnMXLVAoctJWCqKcR+JxbXfotBOSGvnlHfMnp/xb+RfVlZeFQjVcRyAbHy6aGFToyaTOABuBtzPcLzwv5AQyGgG3EX08eqjvAGoWC5n70pOncVijtHLh6yOMdKJy7lS4SB08ITEVGK+2FBc3+4qd6ChVN5WBi2Vz1vcig3TjIIfyphhQyEyR9Sie7nyfmxsyh6AN0euAyLj1KnL1TpZXC7DOIY2Z57iopNkSwh9vwHg2I3urwPmDQOUb2btduoqPnTZJS3LNmReM6hkJyeoI2hQ+yOZJ/0QNiJafwkhcVMetSKi5Q2Q0TYfIpBVwjhE2G6ytBijhlKV2jVhUu5iaZt1e5U9NF2IzHMOS7YcEHHcGRmETLvUWW+0sG/bUG8h51fIP6g4GIKwzaOaehSdVxQVy5xfWpiIVqjhpOMFFiWYD4B4Vpq7MjQ=

177
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:45:42pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

Black people can’t be fair because they have a dog in the fight, with the victim being black and the perp being white. But white people will be totally unaffected by the perp being white and the victim being black.

Because white is default. White is Normal, and all else is Not Normal.
///

Supposedly jury notes indicate that it’s 11-1 for conviction. And now the jury wants to continue to deliberate.

178
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:45:59pm

re: #173 danarchy

PjiiTk9wOfBpAfKBHVCb8oWLXY/BGZ9KQaclYLjd+Qiz9msHB2OlvT/crmw7jxjfaVGkSi+kUJuIR/VPMkhTx5VObhU3WTL1UOKbnf8FDXyvxPUZF3Os+K89sMtIgCP0hVKd4kARn53kJM9N24+ePDpsx7MTGFxdpiX2BZiVSxT3I2IMxXNp11zddWY6uP2K9MAl7hxU51y1CJTPXQDuCA==

179
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:46:32pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

So, ummm, possibly a stupid question: if one loses one’s health insurance as provided through an employer because one quits the job, is that considered a qualifying life event from the point of view of the insurance exchange?

I know it says “You lose your employer-sponsored coverage.” is one but I want to be sure that includes losing that coverage because of a voluntary decision to leave the job.

Yes

180
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:46:35pm

Ever notice a lot of these RWNJ shitheels don’t pay their child support?

181
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:47:26pm

The thing is, to the average Trump voter, I’m betting that ‘not observing the usual diplomatic niceties’ is seen as a feature, not a bug. But those ‘diplomatic niceties’ are a big part of why we haven’t all gone to war at a couple points since 1945.

Consider the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy found a narrow path that allowed the US to stop the deployment of the missiles, AND give Kruschev what he needed, quietly and not for public consumption. I cannot imagine Trump being capable of that kind of subtlety, and worse, his love of Patton and MacArthur* suggests he’d be far too prone to listen to Curtis Fucking LeMay.

*He loves them, but based on how he refers to them I’m pretty sure his understanding of each is extremely limited. There’s a very good reason why each Patton did not get Eisenhower’s job, and a similarly good reason why Truman fired MacArthur.

182
Dave In Austin  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:47:57pm

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

Ever notice a lot of these RWNJ shitheels don’t pay their child support?

And hate abortion

183
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:49:31pm

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

Ever notice a lot of these RWNJ shitheels don’t pay their child support?

That’s those Family Values you’ve heard so much about.

184
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:51:31pm

re: #165 Eclectic Cyborg

1. Bannon failed to pay or underpaid child and spousal support at a time when he was making $500,000 a year and was, according to documents he shared, worth much more.

2. Letters filed with the court by two school administrators allege that Bannon threatened them.

3. Bannon rarely saw his daughters and at one point did not see them for a full two years. During that time they had no idea where he lived.

4. In sworn declarations submitted to the court, Piccard says that Bannon was abusive towards his daughters.

Wow, what an asshole…

I just finished reading that. Asshole doesn’t even describe him. But no surprise Trump would have him. Trump can be in the same league with behavior…just covers it up better.

185
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:55:12pm

re: #181 Blind Frog Belly White

The thing is, to the average Trump voter, I’m betting that ‘not observing the usual diplomatic niceties’ is seen as a feature, not a bug. But those ‘diplomatic niceties’ are a big part of why we haven’t all gone to war at a couple points since 1945.

Consider the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy found a narrow path that allowed the US to stop the deployment of the missiles, AND give Kruschev what he needed, quietly and not for public consumption. I cannot imagine Trump being capable of that kind of subtlety, and worse, his love of Patton and MacArthur* suggests he’d be far too prone to listen to Curtis Fucking LeMay.

*He loves them, but based on how he refers to them I’m pretty sure his understanding of each is extremely limited. There’s a very good reason why each Patton did not get Eisenhower’s job, and a similarly good reason why Truman fired MacArthur.

My grandfather when he opened up about his experience as an artilleryman in Korea as a young man towards the end of his life told me pointedly that he was always thankful that Truman fired Mac. He also always contended that Monty and Bradley were better than Patton. I think both Patton and Mac were good generals but the way Trump talks about them is ignorant. FWIW the best general of the 20th century for our country was George Marshall. I used to commute from a bus stop not far from where he retired to. There’s a nearby high school, actually my father’s alma mater named after him and the nickname fits General Marshall, the nickname isn’t Warriors, it’s Statesmen. My hope is that Mattis will be a George Marshall and not a MacArthur or Patton.

186
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:56:42pm

GOHMERT!

187
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:12pm

re: #186 Lidane

GOHMERT!

[Embedded content]

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

188
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:17:30pm

re: #55 Timothy Watson

Not sure I agree with the analysis but worth a read:

[Embedded content]

re: #70 Targetpractice

As a millennial, I’m perfectly willing to say most of the people of my generation are spoiled children who have grown up in an environment where they feel that sitting on their ass and pouting is a perfectly valid form of “protest.”

Well, maybe we can put one meme to sleep:

Digging into the numbers, however, Mook has a point.
The national exit poll shows Clinton underperformed Barack Obama’s 2012 share of the vote by one point with those between the ages of 30 and 44 and by three points with those ages 45 to 64. She actually overperformed him by one point with those over 65.
Among those between 18 and 29, though, she took five points less — 55 percent versus Obama’s 60 percent.

189
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:35:19pm
190
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:37:49pm

re: #189 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Yeah. That’ll fucking work.


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