Sen. Al Franken Accused of Sexual Harassment While on USO Tour in 2006

US News • Views: 33,763

Ugh. Now Senator Al Franken is being accused of sexual harassment while on a USO tour in 2006, by Leeann Tweeden.

Tweeden is now a morning news anchor for Talkradio 790 in Los Angeles, and posted this account of what happened at the radio station’s website.

As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, I was only expecting to emcee and introduce the acts, but Franken said he had written a part for me that he thought would be funny, and I agreed to play along.

When I saw the script, Franken had written a moment when his character comes at me for a ‘kiss’. I suspected what he was after, but I figured I could turn my head at the last minute, or put my hand over his mouth, to get more laughs from the crowd.

On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’

He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable.

He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.

And there’s photographic evidence — not of this kissing incident, but of another incident that happened on a C-17 cargo plane flying back to the US.

Credit: Leann Tweeden/790 KABC

I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep.

I felt violated all over again. Embarrassed. Belittled. Humiliated.

How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?

Without making any excuses for this behavior — it’s crass and completely unacceptable — I should point out that the photo doesn’t actually show Franken grabbing her breasts. His hands are not touching her. We don’t know what happened in the second immediately after this photo was taken, of course, but I don’t think it’s fair to accuse him of “groping” based on this. It is, however, offensive and juvenile, and conduct unbecoming of a US Senator by any definition.

Franken issued a statement and apology today:

In a statement to reporters, Franken said he doesn’t remember the forced kissing, but said he shouldn’t have conducted his behavior as he did in the photo.

“I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” Franken said. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.”

Franken released a longer statement several hours after his initial one, where he described a lengthier apology and said he “didn’t know what” was in his head when he took the actions in the photo.

“The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There’s more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it’s the only thing you care to hear, that’s fine — is: I’m sorry,” Franken said in the email statement.

He continued, “I respect women.I don’t respect men who don’t. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.”

Franken has also agreed to undergo a Senate ethics investigation.

Meanwhile, right wing blogs and media are going berserk over this, as you might expect, because they think it gives them the perfect diversion from the sexual assault and child molestation allegations against Roy Moore. Their gloating and preening is almost as repulsive as these sexual harassment incidents.

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259 comments

1
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:28:33pm
2
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:30:58pm

This is of course, the moral equivalent of having non-consensual sex with a fourteen-year-old.

/

3
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:34:07pm

re: #2 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

This is of course, the moral equivalent of having non-consensual sex with a fourteen-year-old.

/

See, that never happened because we don’t have a photo of it.

4
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:34:53pm

Right wing logic: A Democrat killing 58 people justifies a Republican killing 70 people.

5
Ace Rothstein  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:35:11pm

Did Franken sign her yearbook? Call her while she was in trig class?

6
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:35:18pm

Meanwhile:

7
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:35:27pm

re: #3 Skip Intro

See, that never happened because we don’t have a photo of it.

Thank Crom.

8
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:35:35pm

re: #3 Skip Intro

See, that never happened because we don’t have a photo of it.

That’s exactly the excuse he’s giving, saying he says he didn’t do it so it didn’t happen.

9
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:36:13pm
and responsible for Noah’s Flood

We could have had dinosaurs, people!!!

10
Dr Lizardo  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:37:15pm

Time to call it a day. Have a good one, Lizards.

11
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:37:16pm

Fuck you, Franken.
I haze zero tolerance for this creepy shit.

12
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:37:16pm
13
Ace Rothstein  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:38:00pm

I’ll give Franken credit for not saying “I apologize IF it offended her.”

14
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:38:51pm

re: #6 jaunte

15
Charles Johnson  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:39:12pm
16
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:40:04pm

The ideal Republican candidate for any office would wear a ski mask and carry a chainsaw.

17
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:40:11pm

re: #1 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Andy Barr is my Congressman, Republican from Kentucky.

p.s. Looks like its a different Andy Barr.

18
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:40:34pm

I want to run a little experiment. I am not throwing anyone under the bus. I want some of the fine women that comment here to judge something for me as I don’t honestly know what to think because as stated earlier, a lot of the sexual dynamics confuse me.

Since the internet is such a huge thing in our lives I did a few searches on Leeann Tweeden because I have no idea who she is.

One of the searches was a google image search.

Would the female members follow this link and tell me what you think.

Again, I am asking this for more of my own knowledge on these matters. I get the feeling some of this is going to end up in this discussion

Google Image Page Leeann Tweeden

I am aware of where this could go and how it could blow up in my face. I am being honest though…I want to learn more. I know all about the debate and excuses about “how I dress does not give you the right to think of me in a certain way”

Here goes. I have my flak jacket on…but remember this is for education purposes.

And funny too. Al Franken is already in the image search.

Thank You!

19
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:40:42pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

20
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:42:25pm
21
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:44:14pm

he apparently likes the UN now:

and he’s getting a wee woodie over the tax cuts:

22
goddamnedfrank  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:44:44pm
23
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:44:57pm
I respect women.I don’t respect men who don’t.

If Franken is sincere, he needs to resign, now.

24
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:45:11pm
25
Decatur Deb  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:45:59pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

+vYp9G+UD/MISS/IB1WmyP7pgBEaMyGQuxoCHUC4hCLt+UPdjrpHDrXfhGA/RW+vCLwYY6dno8XCB7DZkkGZp5wyeOlRQyLv5XBhtFAN0JolUX2OlFlxSuU7iVMbeWYJp8+l/ob//1DJbAmwmxY2YmYOiG2ECbttgUczjtIMXifAPWKLN5jFOr8BjM0A9HHbCiRDW3NYhmU=

26
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:46:38pm

It always gets worse with these creeps. The longer Franken prolongs this while in office, the worse it’s going to get.

27
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:47:31pm
28
Ace-o-aces  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:48:26pm
29
petesh  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:48:56pm

O/T, but I am already sick of the topic, and I think this is important:

30
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:49:09pm
31
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:49:28pm

Anyone know if there’s a website that has a “what the tax bill means for you” tool where you can plug in your income and various other factors?

32
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:50:26pm

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

33
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:50:29pm

Kevin Spacey is turning out to be a fucking monster.

34
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:50:41pm
35
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:52:11pm

re: #34 Backwoods_Sleuth

Senator Elizabeth Warren condemned the alleged actions of Al Franken, her liberal colleague from Minnesota, but stopped short of calling on him to resign

well, just imagine if a Republican made a statement like that about Trump’s actions…

36
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:52:48pm
37
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:53:22pm
38
BlueGrl21  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:53:28pm

re: #18 ObserverArt

I want to run a little experiment. I am not throwing anyone under the bus. I want some of the fime women that comment here to judge something for me as I don’t honestly know what to think because as stated earlier, a lot of the sexual dynamics confuse me.

Since the internet is such a huge thing in our lives I did a few searches on Leeann Tweeden because I have no idea who she is.

One of the searches was a google image search.

Would the female members follow this link and tell me what you think.

Again, I am asking this for more of my own knowledge on these matters. I get the feeling some of this is going to end up in this discussion

Google Image Page Leeann Tweeden

I am aware of where this could go and how it could blow up in my face. I am being honest though…I want to learn more. I know all about the debate and excuses about “how I dress does not give you the right to think of me in a certain way”

Here goes. I have my flak jacket on…but remember this is for education purposes.

And funny too. Al Franken is already in the image search.

Thank You!

I understand why you are stepping delicately here. :)

She chooses to put her body on display. That choice should not impact whether or not someone is sexually harassed. But in the real world, it does. Women who present themselves as sexual objects are going to attract sexual attention.

Most men are capable of thinking, “Damn, she’s hot,” and then act completely appropriately because hot does not equal, “and she obviously wants me.” But as we’ve seen, plenty of men cannot and the fact is, putting yourself on display sexually is going to draw their attention.

Doesn’t make it right. It just is.

I’ve experienced this. I bartended at a club in Houston where we wore next to nothing. Doing so meant good tips and a lot of attention. But it also attracted some men that would make you throw up a little in your mouth. On the days I bartended in a t-shirt and jeans I got left alone…but made less tips. Lace and fishnets? Lots of customers, great tips, and creeps that grabbed my ass when I walked to go to the bathroom.

So it goes.

39
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:54:20pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

40
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:55:32pm

re: #33 teleskiguy

Kevin Spacey is turning out to be a fucking monster.

[Embedded content]

Jesus. He was one of my favorite actors. What a total creep. This is Cosby level predation.

41
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:55:38pm
42
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:56:07pm

re: #37 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

Projecting as usual are we Roy.

43
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:57:31pm

re: #36 Backwoods_Sleuth

It poses an interesting question:

Who knows more about First Amendment law, particularly with respect to defamation of public figures - the Washington Post or a twice removed State Supreme Court Justice?

44
Eventual Carrion  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:57:55pm

re: #39 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Moore is just piling it on

45
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:58:34pm
46
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:59:21pm
47
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 16, 2017 • 12:59:42pm

While we’re waiting for him to check out:

REMEMBER, CHARLES MANSON WAS A WHITE SUPREMACIST

As Charles Manson clings to life, there’s an important part of his time on Earth that often goes undiscussed but should be remembered: He was a white supremacist.

The cult leader and mass murderer, who has a swastika etched into his forehead, used racism to coax his disciples into slaughtering nine people in the hopes it would spark a race war. His goal was to one day rule over African Americans because he felt they were too dumb to govern themselves.

48
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:00:09pm
49
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:00:09pm

re: #45 Backwoods_Sleuth

50
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:01:33pm

Beautiful atmospheric river off the west coast. dathstar, they’re saying a meter of snow or more around Tahoe.

51
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:02:00pm

re: #26 teleskiguy

It always gets worse with these creeps. The longer Franken prolongs this while in office, the worse it’s going to get.

If this is the only incident of sexual harassment that comes out about Franken, I’ll frankly be surprised.

52
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:02:16pm

re: #46 Backwoods_Sleuth

53
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:03:08pm

re: #46 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I know plenty of atheists who have more morals than you’ll ever have Roy.

54
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:03:55pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

I know plenty of atheists who have more morals than you’ll ever have Roy.

Even my Conservative atheist former-friend who wanted protesters shot is morally superior to a child-molester.

55
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:04:34pm
56
I Would Prefer Not To  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:05:20pm

This is going to get bigger.

57
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:06:09pm
58
Kragar  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:06:31pm
59
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:07:57pm

Really….those eyelashes are industrial-grade feckin amazing:

60
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:07:59pm

re: #38 BlueGrl21

I understand why you are stepping delicately here. :)

So it goes.

Thanks for the comment.

61
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:08:24pm

re: #47 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

More from the Newsweek article:

“Charles Manson was one of the most virulent racists that ever walked the planet,” Jeff Guinn, author of Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson, told Newsweek.

Manson’s tactics helped popularize some of the white supremacy ideas we’re seeing utitlized today by the alt-right, which attempts to use fear and entitlement to position itself as superior to other races.

“I keep being reminded of Charlie Manson when we see white supremacist groups. It’s almost like they’re copying the Charles Manson playbook,” Guinn said. “He’s certainly acting as a role model for people today.”

62
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:09:07pm

re: #56 I Would Prefer Not To

The Trump presidency has upended things so much that Bill fucking Kristol is actually right about things at a shockingly high rate.

I mean, he’s probably still below the Mendoza Line, but he’s got a better batting average than a pitcher.

63
lawhawk  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:09:32pm

Yeah folks, GHWB appears to have been a groper too - including while in office.

It’s going to get to the point where the only ones in power that didn’t grope are women (and even then I have my doubts). It’s easier to start identifying who didn’t grope than list all those who did.

At same time, I’m still calling on Congress to release the list of names of all those who Congress paid settlements to for harassment. Name the names.

64
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:10:18pm
65
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:10:58pm

re: #58 Kragar

[Embedded content]

What do you have to lose, well people that respect you as people and not a pathetic racist stereotype that knows nothing about urban living.

66
Sir John Barron  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:11:13pm

re: #21 Backwoods_Sleuth

Need all on the UN Security Council to vote to renew the Joint Investigative Mechanism for Syria to ensure that Assad Regime does not commit mass murder with chemical weapons ever again.

— Donald J. Trump

Nope. No way Trumpy wrote this. “Joint Investigative Mechanism”? He can’t type that.

67
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:12:11pm

re: #62 KGxvi

The Trump presidency has upended things so much that Bill fucking Kristol is actually right about things at a shockingly high rate.

I mean, he’s probably still below the Mendoza Line, but he’s got a better batting average than a pitcher.

But what’s his WAR? // And you ought to know as a Dodgers fan that pitchers can hit. Dons Newcombe and Drysdale.

68
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:12:27pm

Sick Conservative photoshop.

aa2WdPPwoWUx7yGooyYtiP8bScolqJl+ZHXD5sxErk3YIslbEdYKCroUeC/N207x68mmRjcNhaRuXYOTYk2G1ccNRe1s8vnZoE6WVyPuj2gc4rIdl23cay0syppVTdVGTgDUBmvMUrU5NaIGZzy9aQj4r7DEYs5iBiCtqwBC7wURwluvrN7P0jungDelY0jku3b/78ef0avsxfyg7P9mB1vJBEMdzfqbFHbTBMIg5OZLLh2bMwQar8gesr4B1QGTWJnQbRBr0yK+5wIDwYLAfvvthn7uDdvlkqJH1mW7e98nqjado4mGL8YRAEi2yS+hOs3KPNYZME8B6zABgwG/HAARuokCh3CZkBuSA/xowbBsDUKtkkh/8oYytZiX4Sc7fglTwExPKlzfYeL+cv0k7Ddl7SqjoXiCJzPI5GVSM9zKxuOZdusWjAfkq9Bu4By0GaE8N0k04G6sSc+b7n9xg7lxetL4a6mREQCXlY4m49NoLNq9CcIMxqLEhpN6xUZbEy2USpTu7hH4EDfCrkyt4OMJgonVXLeqwAqjTH82GqMYqbSnncCeJLZrAuMx7yC2cagQabUmUICsl4ScbOYtbYkKTG3+S4plQHSGHwlHGiJ55+bxkaHedudFgDkFQnddKctJW807TrrIAlzIW2q1J7uHf5WLPtmxMLhSUDbmnfryRzXgOeoPIob/a2NuqDBVJG/tFrpm6jKAjaJPFiPWvRRvPHyf8tEOJKILayroBQaovMK/s00jJLB6D4BJ1kOMffS4lDWQ6jg=

69
I Would Prefer Not To  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:13:12pm

Needed some cheering up

70
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:13:27pm

re: #64 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

These people would shit themselves if they ever saw real Communists. Hell we’re not even Socialists. As for “Voting God out of the platform”, well we believe that believe that forcing God on people is right, but go ahead cry about Communists.

71
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:13:36pm

MEN CAN’T HELP BUT BE CREEPS AROUND SLUTTY SLUT WOMEN WHO CAN’T KEEP THEIR LEGS SHUT! STUPID WOMEN!!!

72
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:14:55pm

re: #71 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

MEN CAN’T HELP BUT BE CREEPS AROUND SLUTTY SLUT WOMEN WHO CAN’T KEEP THEIR LEGS SHUT! STUPID WOMEN!!!

Or men could just not be creepy dicks. But go ahead Mullah Erickson, act like what you claim to decry in Shariah Law. By the way, Pence is a creep too in his own way. Stop acting like this behavior justifies your retrograde veiws.

73
Renaissance_Man  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:15:35pm

re: #51 Big Beautiful Door

If this is the only incident of sexual harassment that comes out about Franken, I’ll frankly be surprised.

Eh, maybe. There are plenty of powerful men who use that power abusively and with a pattern of intent. But it’s also true that there are people who do dumb things once and regret it, and it doesn’t become a pattern. We haven’t heard any more George Takei accusations, for instance. I recall also a story about Peyton Manning that was pretty gross but seems to have been isolated. I don’t recall doing anything personally that would be considered sexually harrassing, but I’m fairly sure I’ve probably said something at some point that might have made someone uncomfortable, yet it hasn’t become a pattern.

74
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:15:45pm

WTF is wrong with so many men?
What is wrong with their thought processes that makes them think this is ok?
I will never understand.

75
Sir John Barron  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:16:12pm

re: #71 teleskiguy

MEN CAN’T HELP BUT BE CREEPS AROUND SLUTTY SLUT WOMEN WHO CAN’T KEEP THEIR LEGS SHUT! STUPID WOMEN!!!

Whatevs the Left is always wrong!

76
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:17:13pm

The only positive thing I can say about this is that I’m glad Franken is handling this in a mature and appropriate manner. I’m shocked and disappointed; I liked him as my Senator. I’m also pissed off as hell because this gives the Right their out, as well as taking the attention away from the sleazeball currently campaigning.

77
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:20:26pm
78
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:20:59pm

re: #69 I Would Prefer Not To

Needed some cheering up

[Embedded content]

79
goddamnedfrank  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:21:18pm
80
goddamnedfrank  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:22:17pm

re: #59 Backwoods_Sleuth

Really….those eyelashes are industrial-grade feckin amazing:

She went full raccoon today with the eye makeup.

81
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:22:31pm
82
freetoken  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:26:04pm

re: #74 Varek Raith

I will never understand.

I think I understand it.

In the big picture, we humans have a really tough time coming to terms with our behaviors.

83
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:27:24pm
84
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:27:37pm

I hate the MBF as much as any but this is a problem that does go beyond ideology. Of course, Erickson’s bullshit is stupid too. Men and women should be able to interact with each other while showing respect.

85
petesh  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:28:15pm

re: #62 KGxvi

The Trump presidency has upended things so much that Bill fucking Kristol is actually right about things at a shockingly high rate.

I mean, he’s probably still below the Mendoza Line, but he’s got a better batting average than a pitcher.

Beautifully put!

86
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:28:54pm

re: #71 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

MEN CAN’T HELP BUT BE CREEPS AROUND SLUTTY SLUT WOMEN WHO CAN’T KEEP THEIR LEGS SHUT! STUPID WOMEN!!!

What a crock of shit that tweet is. If I can do that as a brown non-Christian guy, so can all white Christian men.

What a fucking cop-out.

87
William Lewis  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:29:16pm

re: #76 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

The only positive thing I can say about this is that I’m glad Franken is handling this in a mature and appropriate manner. I’m shocked and disappointed; I liked him as my Senator. I’m also pissed off as hell because this gives the Right their out, as well as taking the attention away from the sleazeball currently campaigning.

As I mentioned about George Takei the other day, the key to understanding this over the long term is to see if there are further accusations from equal or better sources. If more show up and a pattern emerges? Take appropriate action. If, however, there is only one or low grade accusations? I’m not so sure then.

I know that I’ve acted the ass towards women on occasion because people do stupid shit even when that isn’t their usual behavior. Not to mention there can be cases when something you think is hilarious goes over like the proverbial lead balloon.

Right now we have a handful of really bad cases, one of which is a major problem for the Grand Old Fascist party. Naturally they’re looking for every possible deflection from that case. I reserve the right to be skeptical right up until it’s time to drop kick another asshat.

88
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:29:19pm

re: #79 goddamnedfrank

This is utterly amazing.

89
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:29:21pm

re: #23 teleskiguy

If Franken is sincere, he needs to resign, now.

I get why so many Democrats and liberals are ready to just jettison Franken and airbrush him out of party history over what he allegedly did, especially with Weinstein and Spacey and with Moore in particular.

However, there are major difference between what Franken allegedly did and what Moore allegedly did, and there are differences in the proper course of action for both. Both deserve due process in a court of law if it gets there (and Franken deserves it in his Senate ethics investigation as well, though whether he gets it from the GOPers-in-charge remains to be seen), but other things to keep in mind:

Their track records: Franken’s has been pretty good to this point (though that may indeed change from here in out), while Moore’s is hideous and in a class of its own.

Preponderance of evidence: So far, one person has come out against Franken; one action was documented with a photograph and seemed to be fairly sophomoric and boorish, but otherwise “harmless” under older standards of behavior. The other action, not so “harmless”, is the allegation that Franken forcibly tongue-kissed Tweeden during an audition for a USO show; so far, there’s no corroborating evidence or witnesses coming forward for either side, so it’s “he said, she said”. Because of the recent explosion of exposed sexual harassment in the American public sphere, the assumption will be to take Tweeden at her word, but, seeing as this is something that could be prosecuted in a criminal case, it’s not fair to Franken because it could deny him due process.

God, what a fucking mess…

90
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:31:20pm

Something to keep in mind: Even without the molestation charge, Roy Moore is still a lawless bigot, a theocrat, a panderer, and a buffoon. It is a disgrace that someone like this can even serve as a backwater judge let alone get within grabbing distance of a US Senate seat.

91
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:32:06pm

This does make me want to nominate a woman in 2020 though but tbh, it’s not just this, I genuinely like a lot of our prospective women candidates better then the men.

92
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:32:26pm

re: #90 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Something to keep in mind: Even without the molestation charge, Roy Moore is still a lawless bigot, a theocrat, a panderer, and a buffoon. It is a disgrace that someone like this can even serve as a backwater judge let alone get within grabbing distance of a US Senate seat.

That absolutely.

93
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:33:12pm

re: #79 goddamnedfrank

Detroit cops posing as drug dealers tried to arrest Detroit cops posing as drug buyers and then they all had a fistfight in the middle of the streethttps://t.co pic.twitter.com

— Taqqiya Purveyor (@notwokieleaks) November 15, 2017

Fuck it, I’ve got nothing…I’m out
94
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:34:56pm
95
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:36:14pm

re: #94 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Oh.

96
Mike Lamb  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:38:08pm

Am I to understand that whether a candidate is a pedophile is NOT an issue in a campaign? What is it then?

97
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:38:57pm

re: #94 JordanRules

that’s just extra jerbs!!!

98
MsJ  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:41:58pm

re: #40 HappyWarrior

Jesus. He was one of my favorite actors. What a total creep. This is Cosby level predation.

Spacy is a predator. He needs to go to prison.

99
Charles Johnson  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:42:50pm
100
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:42:56pm

re: #96 Mike Lamb

Am I to understand that whether a candidate is a pedophile is NOT an issue in a campaign? What is it then?

It’s simple partisanship. If Jones had so much as a speeding ticket, Moore and the Bama GOP would be melting down.

101
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:43:19pm

re: #94 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

No one could have predicted that.

/

102
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:43:19pm

re: #98 MsJ

Spacy is a predator. He needs to go to prison.

Definitely.

103
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:43:49pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yep.

104
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:44:03pm

re: #76 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

The only positive thing I can say about this is that I’m glad Franken is handling this in a mature and appropriate manner. I’m shocked and disappointed; I liked him as my Senator. I’m also pissed off as hell because this gives the Right their out, as well as taking the attention away from the sleazeball currently campaigning.

franken and moore are not even remotely equivalent situations.
we should not concede that they are.

there is perspective, proportionality and degree.
we should not be tarring franken with moore’s brush

we barely know the facts and history in franken’s case (so far).

until we do, we should not be raining down what would be an appropriate punishment for moore on franken

105
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:46:14pm

re: #104 dangerman

franken and moore are not even remotely equivalent situations.
we should not concede that they are.

there is perspective, proportionality and degree.
we should not be tarring franken with moore’s brush

we barely know the facts and history in franken’s case (so far).

until we do, we should not be raining down what would be an appropriate punishment for moore on franken

I’m not going to disagree with you in the slightest, but you and I both know damn well the wingnuts won’t see it that way. They will take every single opportunity they get to rip the Left for OMG FRANKEN!!! so that people stop talking about Moore and hopefully they can slip him into the Senate quietly.

106
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:46:29pm

Oh lordy!

107
petesh  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:47:20pm

re: #104 dangerman

I agree, for now. I really, really want to wait until the end of the week. Unfortunately, the gibberish that passes for news and comment nowadays demands instant reactions. I don’t want to give one, but I lean to agreeing with Leeann Tweeden (the victim) that, like her, we should accept Franken’s apology and let it pass, unless more stories come out.

108
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:47:24pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That could unfortunately change if it was Bernie Sanders instead, sadly.

109
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:47:41pm

re: #87 William Lewis

As I mentioned about George Takei the other day, the key to understanding this over the long term is to see if there are further accusations from equal or better sources. If more show up and a pattern emerges? Take appropriate action. If, however, there is only one or low grade accusations? I’m not so sure then.

I know that I’ve acted the ass towards women on occasion because people do stupid shit even when that isn’t their usual behavior. Not to mention there can be cases when something you think is hilarious goes over like the proverbial lead balloon.

Right now we have a handful of really bad cases, one of which is a major problem for the Grand Old Fascist party. Naturally they’re looking for every possible deflection from that case. I reserve the right to be skeptical right up until it’s time to drop kick another asshat.

+10

110
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:47:53pm

re: #106 JordanRules

Oh lordy!

[Embedded content]

Lol. Okay Sarah.

111
Charles Johnson  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:47:59pm
112
Mike Lamb  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:48:06pm

re: #104 dangerman

franken and moore are not even remotely equivalent situations.
we should not concede that they are.

there is perspective, proportionality and degree.
we should not be tarring franken with moore’s brush

we barely know the facts and history in franken’s case (so far).

until we do, we should not be raining down what would be an appropriate punishment for moore on franken

And as was posted upthread, there are two separate allegations: the groping and the kissing. To my eye, I don’t see physical contact in the photo—which to me, is the difference between a joke (if a poor one) and a joke gone too far. The kissing is far more problematic, and we’ll have to see what comes of that.

113
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:48:22pm

I just got this note from Twitter. *teehee*

114
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:48:46pm

re: #108 electrotek

That could unfortunately change if it was Bernie Sanders instead, sadly.

I did see a lot of people try to make light of the rape thing he wrote.

115
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:50:01pm

re: #90 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Something to keep in mind: Even without the molestation charge, Roy Moore is still a lawless bigot, a theocrat, a panderer, and a buffoon. It is a disgrace that someone like this can even serve as a backwater judge let alone get within grabbing distance of a US Senate seat.

…and a twice removed judge, for cause

116
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:50:07pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Al does seem to have handled it as well as you could have.

117
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:50:11pm

re: #114 HappyWarrior

I did see a lot of people try to make light of the rape thing he wrote.

No kidding. We’re not immune from this knee-jerk defense of our messiahs and Bernie would prove it.

118
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:51:00pm

I posted on my FB for the first time in a week about Al Franken and how he has to resign. I couldn’t stay silent as a liberal.

119
Charles Johnson  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:51:09pm
120
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:52:39pm

re: #117 electrotek

No kidding. We’re not immune from this knee-jerk defense of our messiahs and Bernie would prove it.

Even without sexual harassment allegations, I don’t like how Bernie talks to women and people in general.

121
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:54:14pm
122
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:54:49pm

I don’t know if Al should resign but after this, he’s down on my list as prospective candidates, I do think less of him, I’m not sure what should happen but we need to practice our principles.

123
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:56:31pm

re: #105 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

I’m not going to disagree with you in the slightest, but you and I both know damn well the wingnuts won’t see it that way. They will take every single opportunity they get to rip the Left for OMG FRANKEN!!! so that people stop talking about Moore and hopefully they can slip him into the Senate quietly.

and i agree with you ;-)

and i dont want to 3D chess this too much - if franken resigned today, what you said above about wingnuts wouldnt change

there is a truth and there are facts and they are yet unknown.

still, in the span of less than one day we’re already at “off with franken’s head”.

for something that (imho only) isnt remotely in the ballpark with moore’s behavior

124
Charles Johnson  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:58:58pm
125
MsJ  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:59:06pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

Am I a horrible person for LMAO when I read that? I was literally LOL.

126
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:59:41pm

re: #106 JordanRules

Oh lordy!

White House spox Sanders: Trump believes that Democrats colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election, but he’s not going to get into it with Vladimir Putin.

— Anthony Zurcher (@awzurcher) November 16, 2017

127
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:59:45pm

re: #125 MsJ

Am I a horrible person for LMAO when I read that? I was literally LOL.

Nope.

128
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 1:59:58pm

In the last thread there was some speculation about the timing and politics of the release of the photo and the tweeting of the Al Franken incident.

The speculation is this all happened before he was elected to the Senate so why did none of it come up before or since…why now?

I went to her Wiki page and found this about her career.

Career
In 1992, while working as a hostess at a Hooters restaurant (she was in their 1994 calendar) in Colorado Springs, Colorado, she won first place in the Venus International Model Search. This break led to national exposure, including a regular role as a fitness model on the TV show Fitness Beach. Tweeden modeled for promotional work for Hooters, Venus International, Frederick’s of Hollywood.[2]

Tweeden was a correspondent for Fox Sports Networks’ The Best Damn Sports Show Period from 2001 to 2007. In 2008, Tweeden became the third hostess of the NBC late night television series Poker After Dark.[3] She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the “Great American Panel” and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

Tweeden was seen in pre- and post-game coverage of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim on Fox Sports West and is currently working on Fox Sports 1’s UFC Tonight, with Kenny Florian and Ariel Helwani.[4]

She has made appearances as a commentator on such Fox News shows as Hannity and Red Eye. [5][6]

Tweeden is currently on the Los Angeles morning radio show McIntyre in the Morning on KABC / 790 AM from 5 - 10AM as the news anchor. She joined the show on February 7, 2017.

Again…no excuse for Franken. But…maybe she could have settled this prior, She did admit she saw Franken after the incident and walked away from him, which is her right. But the timing seems to be convenient for…well, obvious reasons. We might even know the connections.

Ahhh…politics.

129
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:01:05pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

I don’t know if Al should resign but after this, he’s down on my list as prospective candidates, I do think less of him, I’m not sure what should happen but we need to practice our principles.

If he ever had aspirations to the presidency, a governorship or maybe even getting re-elected as Senator, they’re fucking toast now.

130
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:01:57pm

re: #128 ObserverArt

In the last thread there was some speculation about the timing and politics of the release of the photo and the tweeting of the Al Franken incident.

The speculation is this all happened before he was elected to the Senate so why did none of it come up before or since…why now.

I went to her Wiki page and found this about her career.

Again…no excuse for Franken. But…maybe she could have settled this prior, She did admit she saw Franken after the incident and walked away from him, which is her right. But the timing seems to be convenient for…well. obvious reasons. We might even know the connections.

Ahhh…politics.

She seems to have accepted his apology. I don’t want to subscribe cynical motives to her given her past appearances on FNC.

131
Bubblehead II  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:02:15pm
132
whitebeach  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:02:25pm

Oh, god, I should just invoke the 24-hour rule, but it’s possible that I’m the only one here with personal experience of Al Franken. I met him back during the SNL days when a mutual friend, an old-time spritzer, brought him over to my girlfriend’s apt. in NYC. It was just the four of us and we spent a long evening drinking and gabbing. Al didn’t drink much. And in fact I didn’t like him much. Part of that was undoubtedly envy: the guy was still quite young and already rich and famous. But he was also sort of stiff and surprisingly not funny. Even so, I can’t really see him concocting some deep plot to write a script with the purpose of inflicting an aggressive kiss on a woman. Not many guys think that way, or for that matter think a kiss is some great big deal (YMMV, but that’s what I’ve observed over many years).

I may be totally wrong. And of course the photo is sophomoric as hell, even though he was way past being a sophomore. But for now I’m not jumping on some bandwagon of Oh Hellyez, He’s Gotta Resign Pronto.

133
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:02:38pm

re: #129 TedStriker

If he ever had aspirations to the presidency, a governorship or maybe even getting re-elected as Senator, they’re fucking toast now.

He’s up in 2020.

134
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:03:13pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

if i got this right, that’s appx 13 settlements a year, or one a month, every single month for 20 years

135
lawhawk  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:03:23pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

A couple things stand out. There’s a couple of years where there’s a bunch of settlements, but the payouts are low - like 2000, when there were 15 settlements, but $45,000 in payouts.

But 2000 had 10 settlements, but nearly $4 million paid out.

Settlements and payouts may not be a straight up match (delays on the payouts, structured settlements, etc.)

And it still doesn’t identify who was settling these claims secretly.

136
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:03:40pm

re: #64 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Area man worried about godless communists loves president in Putin’s pocket.

137
Bubblehead II  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:03:47pm

Back in bit. Al fucked up. Al WILL pay a price for his fuck up. What that price will be wil be determined at a later date.

138
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:03:59pm

re: #79 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Brilliant!

139
lawhawk  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:05:02pm
140
Kragar  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:05:03pm
141
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:05:12pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

I don’t know if Al should resign but after this, he’s down on my list as prospective candidates, I do think less of him, I’m not sure what should happen but we need to practice our principles.

Franken wasn’t high on my list, in part because he’ll be almost 70 at the next election. It’s disappointing, but if this turns out to be an isolated incident, and Ms Tweeden has accepted his apology, then I’m not sure what else this can or should be other than a teaching moment.

On a related note, if anyone listens to Ana Marie Cox’s podcast With Friends Like These, the episode last week was quite interesting and relevant to some of these conversations. It’s mostly about Hillary Clinton, but they also discuss how far we’ve come on sexual harassment/assault since the 90s.

142
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:05:22pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

Why have we not heard about this before? Did they release it every year and we just weren’t looking?

143
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:05:42pm
144
lawhawk  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:06:17pm

re: #134 dangerman

if i got this right, that’s appx 13 settlements a year, or one a month, every single month for 20 years

And no way to know from this if the same person was responsible for more than one of those settlements…

145
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:06:47pm

re: #113 GlutenFreeJesus

[Embedded content]

I just got this note from Twitter. *teehee*

Teehee indeed.

146
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:07:04pm

re: #134 dangerman

if i got this right, that’s appx 13 settlements a year, or one a month, every single month for 20 years

It’s as if Bob Packwood made no impression on anyone.

147
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:07:14pm

re: #112 Mike Lamb

And as was posted upthread, there are two separate allegations: the groping and the kissing. To my eye, I don’t see physical contact in the photo—which to me, is the difference between a joke (if a poor one) and a joke gone too far. The kissing is far more problematic, and we’ll have to see what comes of that.

With what I posted from her web page…and Al saying he remembers the comedy skit and not in the same way as she did. I am wondering if the kiss has been upgraded.

There is even a photo of the two of them on stage at the 2006 USO tour at her site…big smiles all around…but they are actors…so she may be pissed at him and playing her part.

Not denying the kiss and the photo and Franken’s part in all of this. But wouldn’t some enhancing help?

This is really turning to be a flip side of Moore in more ways than one. Moore denies the kissing and fondling and says it never happened and there are no facts. Franken says it happened but the facts are wrong.

This is going to be he said she said and that usually means no conclusion. A mess.

148
electrotek  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:07:20pm

re: #139 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

EXACTLY. We know how to clean up our own house.

149
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:07:47pm

re: #128 ObserverArt

Now to me, this is an easy case of making sure you’re not being biased. We’ve already discussed the many reasons why folks don’t come forward earlier and we call bullshit when Moore, Weinstein etc trot that excuse out.

150
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:10:13pm

re: #113 GlutenFreeJesus

I got that note too.

151
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:11:20pm

210000 gallons have leaked according to CNN.
I’d multiply that by several times due to past experience.
/Wonderful!

152
MsJ  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:11:45pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

She seems to have accepted his apology. I don’t want to subscribe cynical motives to her given her past appearances on FNC.

The Roger Stone thing bothers me big time. This is his forte, dirty tricks. If he knew about this before anyone else, I’m completely suspect.

153
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:12:07pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

She seems to have accepted his apology. I don’t want to subscribe cynical motives to her given her past appearances on FNC.

re: #131 Bubblehead II

CNN’s @jaketapper: “Do you accept (Al Franken)’s apology?”

Leeann Tweeden: “I do … I believe him and I think it is heartfelt”snappytv.com

— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) November 16, 2017

If Tweeden accepted his apology and thought it was sincere, I think we ought to slow our roll on defenestrating Franken and let the Senate ethics investigation take its course.

154
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:15:13pm

re: #144 lawhawk

And no way to know from this if the same person was responsible for more than one of those settlements…

yup. somebody’s gonna be listed more than once

155
KGxvi  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:17:04pm

re: #153 TedStriker

If Tweeden accepted his apology and thought it was sincere, I think we ought to slow our roll on defenestrating Franken and let the Senate ethics investigation take its course.

But we’ve got a witch pursuit thing to do.

156
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:17:24pm

re: #148 electrotek

EXACTLY. We know how to clean up our own house.

The thing that really upsets me is that the GOP still thinks they’re the party of principles and morals, and yet we’re the ones who take this shit seriously.

157
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:17:48pm

re: #155 KGxvi

But we’ve got a witch pursuit thing to do.

You know the GOPers on the Senate Ethics Committee are gonna beat on Franken like he owes them money.

158
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:17:59pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

She seems to have accepted his apology. I don’t want to subscribe cynical motives to her given her past appearances on FNC.

This may not be all her doing it for politics. That is the point, I think.

She may have been encouraged. Hannity…would you trust him to play this straight…maybe even have her embellish the story, etc.

If the kiss was just a practice kiss…does it change the dynamic? She did say she hesitated and then allowed the kiss reluctantly. The kiss is the kill shot here. The photo is already being played as a bad and awkward joke.

That gets a bit dodgy does it not?

Damn, I hate going there. But we know how some on the right play the game.

And Al is already doomed…many here have killed his career. I’d like the truth and we do not know it.

How would he ever get to the real story if she does not admit the real story. This is why the whole thing works. After 11 years it is he-said-she-said and in the current climate she said wins..right or wrong.

159
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:18:11pm
160
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:18:40pm

re: #156 Blind Frog Belly White

The thing that really upsets me is that the GOP still thinks they’re the party of principles and morals, and yet we’re the ones who take this shit seriously.

We’re the ones who actually tend to have (and listen to their) consciences.

161
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:19:24pm

re: #153 TedStriker

If Tweeden accepted his apology and thought it was sincere, I think we ought to slow our roll on defenestrating Franken and let the Senate ethics investigation take its course.

did she decide to protect the world from future bad franken behavior?
was she blazing a trail so others (there had to be others!?!) would also come forward?

if this had been bothering her for all these years, she could have reached out to him directly.

doing this publicly was calculated.

162
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:20:02pm

re: #158 ObserverArt

This may not be all her doing it for politics. That is the point, I think.

She may have been encouraged. Hannity…would you trust him to play this straight…maybe even have her embellish the story, etc.

If the kiss was just a practice kiss…does it change the dynamic? She did say she hesitated and then allowed the kiss reluctantly. The kiss is the kill shot here. The photo is already being played as a bad and awkward joke.

That gets a bit dodgy does it not?

Damn, I hate going there. But we know how some on the right play the game.

And Al is already doomed…many here have killed his career. I’d like the truth and we do not know it.

How would he ever get to the real story if she does not admit the real story. This is why the whole thing works. After 11 years it is he-said-she-said and in the current climate she said wins..right or wrong.

True enough.

163
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:21:34pm

re: #156 Blind Frog Belly White

The thing that really upsets me is that the GOP still thinks they’re the party of principles and morals, and yet we’re the ones who take this shit seriously.

tax hike = tax cut
killing obamacare = more insurance for everybody!
up is down etc

164
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:22:01pm

re: #157 TedStriker

You know the GOPers on the Senate Ethics Committee are gonna beat on Franken like he owes them money.

i predict (with no information to support it) that he will do what clinton did

165
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:22:37pm

re: #152 MsJ

The Roger Stone thing bothers me big time. This is his forte, dirty tricks. If he knew about this before anyone else, I’m completely suspect.

166
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:22:57pm

re: #161 dangerman

Same for all the other accusers or just her?

167
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:23:19pm

re: #161 dangerman

did she decide to protect the world from future bad franken behavior?
was she blazing a trail so others (there had to be others!?!) would also come forward?

if this had been bothering her for all these years, she could have reached out to him directly.

doing this publicly was calculated.

Maybe, in the current climate and with current events being what they are in Hollywood and elsewhere, she had mentioned it to people she knows, who cajoled her to go public with it. Somehow, this makes it along into the GOP network, which is where Stone picks it up ahead of time.

168
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:23:19pm

re: #158 ObserverArt

How would he ever get to the real story if she does not admit the real story.

What real story? A different one than the one she said?

169
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:25:22pm

re: #161 dangerman

SMFH.

170
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:26:02pm

re: #149 JordanRules

Now to me, this is an easy case of making sure you’re not being biased. We’ve already discussed the many reasons why folks don’t come forward earlier and we call bullshit when Moore, Weinstein etc trot that excuse out.

I am not being biased. But obviously you and others can and will think that. There is no way for me to prove it…much as there is no way to prove a lot of this.

This is a political discussion board. I am trying to discuss the politics of it and the facts. This has certainly become political and how can it really be discussed if not discussed in detail and the whats and whys and what-ifs.

I try real hard not to jump to conclusions, but I will research.

And with that, I am out. I may have already crossed some lines. I gave my input.

Got other stuff to do. Later all.

171
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:27:56pm

Why didn’t she come forward sooner?
Why did she come forward like this?
Why didn’t she just call the person who she felt violated her?
She had on armor.

Huh?? For real y’all. We literally just debunked this type of stuff dealing with all the stories that came before this one.

Franken handled this a lot better than a lot of folks. I’m just sayin.

You can be skeptical but please be more thoughtful.

172
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:28:26pm

re: #153 TedStriker

If Tweeden accepted his apology and thought it was sincere, I think we ought to slow our roll on defenestrating Franken and let the Senate ethics investigation take its course.

Ahh…your comment reminds me of what I wanted to say in a previous post.

Would the women in the Moore case say the accepted his “heartfelt” apology.

Maybe the women LGF members can address that.

Okay…all points covered. Later.

173
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:28:56pm

re: #166 JordanRules

Same for all the other accusers or just her?

color me somewhat cynical
in franken’s case -she’s the only one
and we still do not have all the facts and history
11 years
i have no idea how often has she talked about it and shared it
has it been eating at her all this time

but it had to be today and publicly?

174
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:29:30pm

She may have felt that now was a good time to get it out because of everyone else. Maybe just the fact that women are feeling a little comfortable talking allowed her to talk. I don’t begrudge her that, and the consequences of that are for Franken to deal with, which includes dealing with those of us who are worried about how it will affect the country if Republicans are successfully able to use it.

Franken apologized and she accepted it. Any other actions are up to her, but as of right now, she doesn’t want to drag it on. Could it be calculated by her? It’s not really a thing now.

But Moore and Trump are still creepy assholes that are willing to go after children.

175
Varek Raith  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:29:37pm

re: #171 JordanRules

Why didn’t she come forward sooner?
Why did she come forward like this?
Why didn’t she just call the person who she felt violated her?
She had on armor.

Huh?? For real y’all. We literally just debunked this type of stuff dealing with all the stories that came before this one.

Franken handled this a lot better than a lot of folks. I’m just sayin.

You can be skeptical but please be more thoughtful.

Yeah, this is making me rather angry.
Think I’ll log out for a bit.

176
Eventual Carrion  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:30:19pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

210000 gallons have leaked according to CNN.
I’d multiply that by several times due to past experience.
/Wonderful!

That much has leaked out since they noticed it.

177
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:31:04pm

re: #157 TedStriker

You know the GOPers on the Senate Ethics Committee are gonna beat on Franken like he owes them money.

So be it! He’s already said he’d welcome the investigation, and that he’d fully cooperate.

Let him take his medicine. There’s a real good chance that the Rs on that committee will overplay their hand, at which point Al becomes a sympathetic figure.

Besides the first, short statement this morning, he’s doing the right thing here.

178
petesh  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:31:10pm

When I saw that stupid photo of Franken pretending to fondle Tweeden’s armor-plated breast, I had the strange feeling I’d already seen it. I’m not good at image-match searching but I wonder if anyone could check that out — any hit prior to yesterday would be interesting.

It’s possible I had a deja-vu brain fart, but it would be good to check.

179
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:31:28pm

re: #170 ObserverArt

I hope you didn’t take offense to me continuing the discussion.

I really did think that in general, with folks on the left we were past the ‘why don’t folks come forward sooner’ part of the education that we’re all getting.

180
m0nkeyb0y  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:31:39pm

re: #156 Blind Frog Belly White

The thing that really upsets me is that the GOP still thinks they’re the party of principles and morals, and yet we’re the ones who take this shit seriously.

And the GOP weaponized this tendency as “political correctness.”

181
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:31:41pm
182
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:34:23pm

re: #171 JordanRules

Why didn’t she come forward sooner?
Why did she come forward like this?
Why didn’t she just call the person who she felt violated her?
She had on armor.

Huh?? For real y’all. We literally just debunked this type of stuff dealing with all the stories that came before this one.

Franken handled this a lot better than a lot of folks. I’m just sayin.

You can be skeptical but please be more thoughtful.

im going with cynical

i do not deny anything she’s said - and that he’s admitted it helps a lot
i do think she’s embellished some things - a bit
and yes, i think the timing and motivation are suspect
these things dont happen in a vacuum

and i cannot put an unwanted groping kiss - that for now appears an isolated event - in the same category as a long history of repeated predatory behavior towards teens and underaged teens - that apparently a crapload of people knew about at the time

183
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:36:07pm

re: #182 dangerman

and i cannot put an unwanted groping kiss - that for now appears an isolated event - in the same category as a long history of repeated predatory behavior towards teens and underaged teens - that apparently a crapload of people knew about at the time

I’m right there with you on this.

184
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:36:22pm

re: #168 Belafon

What real story? A different one than the one she said?

Details of the story. I am not denying the story…just the details and they count do they not?

And it is about the kiss. Was it a acting kiss or did he ram his tongue down her throat? Makes a lot of difference does it not? Details makes the story real, not so much or completely enhanced for political reasons.

Dang it…please I am trying to get out of here. No more comments for me to try an answer.

I have asked enough…maybe too much. But I don’t throw people over the side of the boat with concrete shoes if I have some questions. Not to say I wouldn’t have Franken walk the plank a bit to hear more.

Later.

185
freetoken  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:37:30pm

re: #171 JordanRules

Concur. As horrible as Roger Stone is, the story of Franken and the woman in question does not itself rest on Stone’s shadiness.

As I implied earlier, the ultimate question is whether the female(s) in question want themselves to move beyond this, whether the offense was indeed something they don’t want to make cause for even greater action.

As an outsider I look at Franken’s behavior in the now widely circulated photo as juvenile (yes, teenage guys like this sort of thing) but as I’m not the one who was the target of this action of Franken’s I’m not the one who can really be the offended party. It’s up to her to ask what she wants out of Franken’s attempt to reconcile what he did.

It’s easy to be too reactionary as well as to be too callous about these things.

In the past year, besides all the celebs and politicians outed for unwarranted sexual behavior, in some academic disciplines there have been scandals about how female grad students get abused by their professors/advisors.

Previously I hand-wavingly wrote that I wouldn’t be surprised if about a quarter of all men in positions of authority somehow abused that position of authority in matters like unwarranted sexual behavior. I am serious about this - I really think it’s about that high of a ratio.

186
Belafon  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:38:17pm

Another take: dailykos.com.

187
BlueGrl21  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:38:59pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

Ahh…your comment reminds me of what I wanted to say in a previous post.

Would the women in the Moore case say the accepted his “heartfelt” apology.

Maybe the women LGF members can address that.

Okay…all points covered. Later.

As a woman who was molested as a young girl, the answer is there is no apology in the world that would make a difference.

188
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:39:48pm

“…Donald Trump is using taxpayer-funded government lawyers to defend his practice of accepting money from foreign entities through his hotels and other companies.

There are at least 10 lawyers working on these cases, with salaries ranging from $133,000 to $185,000.

USA Today reports that there are four cases being litigated because Trump has refused to divest his holdings or disconnect himself from the Trump Organization.

The paper also revealed that the Justice Department, led by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, tried to hide this arrangement. The department would not answer inquiries, and the connections were made only after a Freedom of Information Act request was filed and fulfilled.

189
ObserverArt  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:40:03pm

re: #179 JordanRules

I hope you didn’t take offense to me continuing the discussion.

I really did think that in general, with folks on the left we were past the ‘why don’t folks come forward sooner’ part of the education that we’re all getting.

No offense. Again, it is a political discussion.

(Still seeing if anything I need to respond to)

190
Stanley Sea  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:41:17pm

re: #154 dangerman

yup. somebody’s gonna be listed more than once

Who was that Florida rep with the congressional pages?

191
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:41:34pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

I know plenty of atheists who have more morals than you’ll ever have Roy.

To me expecting moral values to go with religion is right about as valid as expecting them to go with skin color. Or income.

192
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:42:37pm

re: #177 makeitstop

So be it! He’s already said he’d welcome the investigation, and that he’d fully cooperate.

Let him take his medicine. There’s a real good chance that the Rs on that committee will overplay their hand, at which point Al becomes a sympathetic figure.

Besides the first, short statement this morning, he’s doing the right thing here.

Problem is, there’s “hard, but fair” and there’s “exruciatingly hard, but completely partisan bullshit”; which do you think the GOPers on that committee are going to default to?

While I give Franken some credit for his apology and willingness to submit to the Ethics Committee investigation, he really didn’t have much choice as far as the investigation goes, because the GOP were going to do one already and they’re likely to ride it for all it’s worth.

193
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:42:46pm

re: #191 Unshaken Defiance

To me expecting moral values to go with religion is right about as valid as expecting them to go with skin color. Or income.

Indeed moral values go with individuals.

194
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:43:11pm

re: #190 Stanley Sea

Who was that Florida rep with the congressional pages?

Mark Foley.

en.wikipedia.org

195
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:43:41pm

re: #190 Stanley Sea

Who was that Florida rep with the congressional pages?

Creepy Mark Foley.

I once appeared opposite him on MSNBC. Dude was creepy AF.

196
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:44:14pm

re: #195 makeitstop

Creepy Mark Foley.

I once appeared opposite him on MSNBC. Dude was creepy AF.

You were on MSNBC?

197
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:44:22pm

re: #195 makeitstop

Creepy Mark Foley.

I once appeared opposite him on MSNBC. Dude was creepy AF.

O RLY?!?

198
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:44:49pm

re: #157 TedStriker

You know the GOPers on the Senate Ethics Committee are gonna beat on Franken like he owes them money.

and he will handle it all with grace and aplomb.

199
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:46:00pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

and he will handle it all with grace and aplomb.

I do trust Franken to handle the ethics investigation well.

200
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:46:26pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

and he will handle it all with grace and aplomb.

For his sake (and ours, by extension), I hope so.

201
Stanley Sea  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:46:51pm

re: #194 TedStriker

Mark Foley.

en.wikipedia.org

Scandal broke 2006

202
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:47:04pm

re: #194 TedStriker

Mark Foley.

en.wikipedia.org

One aspect of the scandal was an apparent cover-up by Dennis Hastert.
Go figure.

203
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:47:31pm

re: #185 freetoken

Yeah. I expect dirty tricks and oppo research from the Stone thug gang, especially right now. He may have had the story earlier. But as you detailed, the important considerations don’t have much to do with that at the outset.

I’m good with how this story has evolved so far. I know as more stuff comes out about other people, I will find myself conflicted and will experience a lot of changing thoughts and emotions. That’s okay and to be expected for all of us.

I think your ratio is probably close, maybe even too conservative.

204
Stanley Sea  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:47:36pm

re: #195 makeitstop

Creepy Mark Foley.

I once appeared opposite him on MSNBC. Dude was creepy AF.

I missed this. You were on MSNBC?

205
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:47:43pm

re: #190 Stanley Sea

Who was that Florida rep with the congressional pages?

foley?

206
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:49:31pm

Let’s say just for conversation Al Franken is guilty of the above, no more and no less. What should the consequences be? Resign, permanently unemployable? Take the sensitivity classes and devote x hours to public awareness?

??

A thirty something guy after a fourteen year old at the mall risks fatherly violence and or police action. Cosby used inebriation of the women to have his way. Again, prison worthy behavior.

Separate observation, alcohol is positively not an excuse, but it sure seems to be involved a lot. Maybe part of moral polite behavior is finding the enough of a buzz point.

207
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:50:09pm

re: #202 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

One aspect of the scandal was an apparent cover-up by Dennis Hastert.
Go figure.

Talk about Dirty being covered for by Even Dirtier.

208
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:50:17pm

look, this is important re franken and moore et al

we here have different backgrounds, ideas, ideals. we have different priorities and experiences. so we see things differently. and that’s fine.

a lot of this is speculation, point of view, perspective.

i dont have a good memory and i dont keep records.
i’ve learned recently that i have no idea and dont remember who most of you are:

except for a few obvious handles.
i dont know anyone’s sex, skin color, age, where you live, were born, education, socioeconomic status

or how tall you are

i see each of you as a sort of hazy, amorphous, equal.
i do not see anyone’s baggage. i dont see any johnny (jane) one-notes

we are individuals. we have our own sensibilities.

we dont have to agree
as long as we do it respectfully and back it up with some sense of reason and logic, and not “because i said so” or “because it is that way why dont you see it?”

lgf is a good place
i like it here
everyone contributes and tends to do it respectfully
all thoughtful points of view are valid

209
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:51:35pm

re: #173 dangerman

color me somewhat cynical
in franken’s case -she’s the only one
and we still do not have all the facts and history
11 years
i have no idea how often has she talked about it and shared it
has it been eating at her all this time

but it had to be today and publicly?

I feel like we’re veering close to a dangerous game here. What’s next, we look at her political contributions to decide whether she’s lying? Haven’t we spent the last week decrying exactly that sort of thing on the other side?

210
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:51:41pm

re: #206 Unshaken Defiance

Let’s say just for conversation Al Franken is guilty of the above, no more and no less. What should the consequences be? Resign, permanently unemployable? Take the sensitivity classes and devote x hours to public awareness?

??

A thirty something guy after a fourteen year old at the mall risks fatherly violence and or police action. Cosby used inebriation of the women to have his way. Again, prison worthy behavior.

Separate observation, alcohol is positively not an excuse, but it sure seems to be involved a lot. Maybe part of moral polite behavior is finding the enough of a buzz point.

i used to say “alcohol gets blamed for a lot of things it didn’t do”

211
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:52:43pm

I will not be surprised if additional dirt is revealed about Moore. I know somebody has got to be chasing down that Australia jaunt.

Him being publicly defiant is exactly what an entitled, unpunished predator like him would do.

212
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:53:19pm

re: #174 Belafon

She may have felt that now was a good time to get it out because of everyone else. Maybe just the fact that women are feeling a little comfortable talking allowed her to talk. I don’t begrudge her that, and the consequences of that are for Franken to deal with, which includes dealing with those of us who are worried about how it will affect the country if Republicans are successfully able to use it.

Franken apologized and she accepted it. Any other actions are up to her, but as of right now, she doesn’t want to drag it on. Could it be calculated by her? It’s not really a thing now.

But Moore and Trump are still creepy assholes that are willing to go after children.

Someone probably made some calculated decisions on this. Given that it is a sitting Senator involved, of course some people were going to be thinking about the politics. It’s naive to think otherwise. BUT she has a right to tell her story when and where she chooses. Even if she chooses to do so now for political damage and points, which we have very little evidence to suggest was the primary motivation (or even motivation at all, compared to the environment now being favorable for her to be believed).

I’ve read Franken’s longer apology. I have mixed feelings. At the end of the day, politics in a two party system is a cold, pragmatic thing. Everyone has lines they don’t want to see crossed. Everyone’s line is in a different place on different topics. (Most of us can agree on things like child molestation, which is good at least.) Sometimes generally good people make mistakes. Sometimes assholes accomplish things that make the world overall a better place. Sometimes you have to weigh the two and acknowledge the harm done by overlooking the small flaws in favor of the big picture. Perfect can be the enemy of the good. On the other hand, that’s what the family values voters said when they held their noses and voted for Trump. Where do I draw the line? How do I do it consistent with my principles and with the awareness that this is the reality I have to work with?

I don’t know. And this is before we get into the complex issue of mistakes and what it means to be a human who tries but sometimes fucks up and our current societal obsession with instant justice through mob censure if necessary, along with the permanent record of our transgressions through the unfailing and unforgiving memory of the Internet.

To sum it up, the world is currently a fucking trash fire and I’m exhausted.

213
Decatur Deb  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:54:42pm

Alabama sandbox politics at their finest.

Roy Moore supporters argue with media after press conference

It’s been about 20 hours since the last teenager surfaced.

214
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:55:01pm

re: #90 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Something to keep in mind: Even without the molestation charge, Roy Moore is still a lawless bigot, a theocrat, a panderer, and a buffoon. It is a disgrace that someone like this can even serve as a backwater judge let alone get within grabbing distance of a US Senate seat.

You said “grabbing distance” (((snicker))).

215
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:55:13pm

re: #192 TedStriker

Problem is, there’s “hard, but fair” and there’s “exruciatingly hard, but completely partisan bullshit”; which do you think the GOPers on that committee are going to default to?

While I give Franken some credit for his apology and willingness to submit to the Ethics Committee investigation, he really didn’t have much choice as far as the investigation goes, because the GOP were going to do one already and they’re likely to ride it for all it’s worth.

1. He admitted to it. No victim-blaming, nothing. He owned right up to it.
2. He issued a sincere apology.
3. The victim has accepted that apology.

All of this counts in his favor.

What else could he have possibly done? Resisted the ethics investigation?

If, as you say, the Rs would have started an investigation anyway, I’d say he’s played it right.

Barring more victims coming forth, what worse could they do? Bad photoshops? SNL footage where he does something questionable? Fake ‘victims?’

It’s going to run its course. As it should.

216
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:55:44pm

re: #212 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Someone probably made some calculated decisions on this. Given that it is a sitting Senator involved, of course some people were going to be thinking about the politics. It’s naive to think otherwise. BUT she has a right to tell her story when and where she chooses. Even if she chooses to do so now for political damage and points, which we have very little evidence to suggest was the primary motivation (or even motivation at all, compared to the environment now being favorable for her to be believed).

I’ve read Franken’s longer apology. I have mixed feelings. At the end of the day, politics in a two party system is a cold, pragmatic thing. Everyone has lines they don’t want to see crossed. Everyone’s line is in a different place on different topics. (Most of us can agree on things like child molestation, which is good at least.) Sometimes generally good people make mistakes. Sometimes assholes accomplish things that make the world overall a better place. Sometimes you have to weigh the two and acknowledge the harm done by overlooking the small flaws in favor of the big picture. Perfect can be the enemy of the good. On the other hand, that’s what the family values voters said when they held their noses and voted for Trump. Where do I draw the line? How do I do it consistent with my principles and with the awareness that this is the reality I have to work with?

I don’t know. And this is before we get into the complex issue of mistakes and what it means to be a human who tries but sometimes fucks up and our current societal obsession with instant justice through mob censure if necessary, along with the permanent record of our transgressions through the unfailing and unforgiving memory of the Internet.

To sum it up, the world is currently a fucking trash fire and I’m exhausted.

So much simpler if you just PRETEND to have morals and principles than if you actually try and live by them.

217
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:56:35pm
218
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:56:42pm

re: #212 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Someone probably made some calculated decisions on this. Given that it is a sitting Senator involved, of course some people were going to be thinking about the politics. It’s naive to think otherwise. BUT she has a right to tell her story when and where she chooses. Even if she chooses to do so now for political damage and points, which we have very little evidence to suggest was the primary motivation (or even motivation at all, compared to the environment now being favorable for her to be believed).

I’ve read Franken’s longer apology. I have mixed feelings. At the end of the day, politics in a two party system is a cold, pragmatic thing. Everyone has lines they don’t want to see crossed. Everyone’s line is in a different place on different topics. (Most of us can agree on things like child molestation, which is good at least.) Sometimes generally good people make mistakes. Sometimes assholes accomplish things that make the world overall a better place. Sometimes you have to weigh the two and acknowledge the harm done by overlooking the small flaws in favor of the big picture. Perfect can be the enemy of the good. On the other hand, that’s what the family values voters said when they held their noses and voted for Trump. Where do I draw the line? How do I do it consistent with my principles and with the awareness that this is the reality I have to work with?

I don’t know. And this is before we get into the complex issue of mistakes and what it means to be a human who tries but sometimes fucks up and our current societal obsession with instant justice through mob censure if necessary, along with the permanent record of our transgressions through the unfailing and unforgiving memory of the Internet.

To sum it up, the world is currently a fucking trash fire and I’m exhausted.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

219
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:57:55pm

re: #209 Blind Frog Belly White

I feel like we’re veering close to a dangerous game here. What’s next, we look at her political contributions to decide whether she’s lying? Haven’t we spent the last week decrying exactly that sort of thing on the other side?

as i’ve said i believe her - subtracting maybe a little embellishment (until facts are established)

and these things dont happen in a vacuum
i think “why publicly” is a fair question, in this case…
i think “why now” is a fair question

in moore’s case they had the help of the wapo. and also going public for them now meant they would be heard.

this woman has a picture. there wasnt going be any outright denial.

220
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:58:09pm

re: #216 Blind Frog Belly White

So much simpler if you just PRETEND to have morals and principles than if you actually try and live by them.

Also easier just to have knee jerk reactions versus thinking past the initial emotional reaction but here we all are.

Sigh.

If only it was as easy to get word count on the shit that I’m supposed to be writing as it is on the thorny moral dilemmas.

221
TedStriker  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:58:14pm

re: #214 Skip Intro

You said “grabbing distance” .

Well, you can’t spell “groper” without “GOP”…

/at least until this Franken business

///

222
Eventual Carrion  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:58:46pm

re: #216 Blind Frog Belly White

So much simpler if you just PRETEND to have morals and principles than if you actually try and live by them.

These morals you speak of intrigue me. Teach me to fake them.

223
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 2:58:58pm

re: #129 TedStriker

If he ever had aspirations to the presidency, a governorship or maybe even getting re-elected as Senator, they’re fucking toast now.

Jesus I would hope so.

224
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:00:12pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

re: #197 TedStriker

re: #204 Stanley Sea

Yes, I was once on MSNBC. Short version of a long story:

I was once partner in a web site called ‘Take Back The Media’ (with the infamous guy who made that ‘Bush is a Nazi’ video - in fact, that’s why I left), and they tapped me to appear to talk about something that Limbaugh said - I can’t even remember what it was.

But, yeah - I unloaded on Foley, and he sat there with this glazed grin on his face the whole time. Dude was weird.

225
freetoken  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:00:24pm

re: #206 Unshaken Defiance

More or less, I think we have two issues which are intertwined here:

1) male power abuse;
2) idealism in what we expect of leaders.

I guess we all make up a jury - the jury of public opinion.

I would like to keep our legal system and the authority we give it (to lock up people for life, or in certain states, death) relevant to a limited sphere.

As for item 1, To me, there is a ethics-characteristic gap between A) a 30-something guy cruising malls for underage girls, and B) an adult man trying to kiss a woman briefly. While the latter is offensive to the woman if she indeed doesn’t want to be kissed, as a single offense I find it hard to want something like this to enter the legal system (unlike case A).

As for item 2 - should we expect our politicians to never have acted poorly in their lives? I don’t know. I really don’t know. I think there are offenses our leaders take that are incalculably worse than forcing a kiss on someone (even if it is offensive) - such as starting a war and killing a hundred thousand non-combatants.

I fear that a secular form of puritanism isn’t going to be any more useful than the original religious form. That’s why in this case of Franken, given what we know now (understanding of course that the future could always bring more information), I’d rather that Franken and the female(s) in question reconcile to the satisfaction of the offended party.

226
Decatur Deb  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:00:47pm

re: #212 klys (maker of Silmarils)

To sum it up, the world is currently a fucking trash fire and I’m exhausted.

Around 1955 a competitor of Mad Magazine ran with the leitmotif: “The world is a garbage can and (insert situation) is at the bottom of it”. Might have been Panic or the original Cracked.

227
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:01:54pm

Update on that chart. Whew.

228
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:02:55pm

re: #199 HappyWarrior

I do trust Franken to handle the ethics investigation well.

And I’m sure he’ll get an absolutely fair hearing from the majority party - NOT!

229
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:03:00pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

Alabama sandbox politics at their finest.

[Embedded content]

It’s been about 20 hours since the last teenager surfaced.

“You’re not asking the questions we want you to ask!!!”

230
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:03:13pm

re: #224 makeitstop

Yes, I was once on MSNBC. Short version of a long story:

I was once partner in a web site called ‘Take Back The Media’ (with the infamous guy who made that ‘Bush is a Nazi’ video - in fact, that’s why I left), and they tapped me to appear to talk about something that Limbaugh said - I can’t even remember what it was.

But, yeah - I unloaded on Foley, and he sat there with this glazed grin on his face the whole time. Dude was weird.

Ah ha. Cool deal.

231
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:03:54pm

re: #208 dangerman

look, this is important re franken and moore et al

we here have different backgrounds, ideas, ideals. we have different priorities and experiences. so we see things differently. and that’s fine.

a lot of this is speculation, point of view, perspective.

i dont have a good memory and i dont keep records.
i’ve learned recently that i have no idea and dont remember who most of you are:

except for a few obvious handles.
i dont know anyone’s sex, skin color, age, where you live, were born, education, socioeconomic status

or how tall you are

i see each of you as a sort of hazy, amorphous, equal.
i do not see anyone’s baggage. i dont see any johnny (jane) one-notes

we are individuals. we have our own sensibilities.

we dont have to agree
as long as we do it respectfully and back it up with some sense of reason and logic, and not “because i said so” or “because it is that way why dont you see it?”

lgf is a good place
i like it here
everyone contributes and tends to do it respectfully
all thoughtful points of view are valid

and P.S.

a lot of you write more succinctly, concisely, and accurately than i do

232
HappyWarrior  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:05:17pm

re: #229 jaunte

“You’re not asking the questions we want you to ask!!!”

[Embedded content]

How dare journalists ask questions!

233
Decatur Deb  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:07:32pm

re: #208 dangerman

look, this is important re franken and moore et al

we here have different backgrounds, ideas, ideals. we have different priorities and experiences. so we see things differently. and that’s fine.

a lot of this is speculation, point of view, perspective.

i dont have a good memory and i dont keep records.
i’ve learned recently that i have no idea and dont remember who most of you are:

except for a few obvious handles.
i dont know anyone’s sex, skin color, age, where you live, were born, education, socioeconomic status

or how tall you are

i see each of you as a sort of hazy, amorphous, equal.
i do not see anyone’s baggage. i dont see any johnny (jane) one-notes

we are individuals. we have our own sensibilities.

we dont have to agree
as long as we do it respectfully and back it up with some sense of reason and logic, and not “because i said so” or “because it is that way why dont you see it?”

lgf is a good place
i like it here
everyone contributes and tends to do it respectfully
all thoughtful points of view are valid

We are LGF. Resistance is futile.

234
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:08:41pm
235
MsJ  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:11:20pm

re: #171 JordanRules

Why didn’t she come forward sooner?
Why did she come forward like this?
Why didn’t she just call the person who she felt violated her?
She had on armor.

Huh?? For real y’all. We literally just debunked this type of stuff dealing with all the stories that came before this one.

Franken handled this a lot better than a lot of folks. I’m just sayin.

You can be skeptical but please be more thoughtful.

It was absolutely stupid.

My one question that, to me, comes before all others: How did Roger Stone know about this the day before anything was said or it was made public?

I’m not sticking up for Franken. It was stupid. Full stop.

But - this is Stone’s forte. There’s a picture of Franken being childish. It in poor taste. I don’t think he touched her. That picture doesn’t show physical contact. Was there? Who knows?

She said there was an unwanted kiss.

I can’t stop going back to Roger Stone.

I’m a woman. I’m not going to say he should get a pass. But when Roger Stone has any involvement (she works for Fox? Sorry, another strike in my eyes.) I want more information. This was a USO show. There has to be film.

Remove Roger Stone and I’m less skeptical. But there he is.

236
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:12:16pm

This really is getting exhausting, because we’re trying to judge people in real time while waiting for the next shoe to drop.

The Rebecca Traister piece I linked to the other day goes into this a bit, as well as just how complicit we all are, in various ways.

237
Stanley Sea  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:16:05pm

re: #224 makeitstop

Yes, I was once on MSNBC. Short version of a long story:

I was once partner in a web site called ‘Take Back The Media’ (with the infamous guy who made that ‘Bush is a Nazi’ video - in fact, that’s why I left), and they tapped me to appear to talk about something that Limbaugh said - I can’t even remember what it was.

But, yeah - I unloaded on Foley, and he sat there with this glazed grin on his face the whole time. Dude was weird.

Where’s the tape bro?

238
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:18:09pm

re: #234 JordanRules

Seriously, which one looks more human, Sofia or Jared?

239
jaunte  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:19:16pm

re: #238 Skip Intro

Did someone say “robot that wants to destroy humans?”

240
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:19:24pm

re: #235 MsJ

Stone has been at the heart of GOP ratfucking for 40 years.

241
dangerman  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:19:39pm

not corroborated:

Hannity just said to tweeden
On his radio show
“I remember you showing me that photo years ago “

242
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:19:47pm

re: #238 Skip Intro

They both scare the hell out of me.
Sophia really paused when asked about us human folk, but she will kill us all.
Jared wouldn’t pause.

243
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:20:58pm
244
MsJ  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:23:33pm

re: #240 Skip Intro

Stone has been at the heart of GOP ratfucking for 40 years.

That’s why I can’t get past his knowing about this a day in advance. Franken himself was caught offguard (hence his initial response), but Roger fucking Stone knew. A day in advance.

245
Decatur Deb  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:23:48pm

re: #243 Blind Frog Belly White

Taxes for graduate students would rise astronomically in 2018 under house plan. Imagine being taxed on 80k while bringing home 30.

What business do poor people have in grad school?

246
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:24:34pm

re: #243 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

RepubliKKKlans need to keep people stupid.

247
makeitstop  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:25:37pm

re: #237 Stanley Sea

Where’s the tape bro?

It’s out there somewhere, I’m sure. :)

I used to have a copy, maybe 3 or 4 computers ago. Might have it on a DVD somewhere.

248
teleskiguy  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:25:50pm
249
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:29:41pm

re: #244 MsJ

Does everyone think Bannon went to sleep a week ago? This is a Bannon/Fox/GOP op. And it worked, because it always works.

The Dems apparently have no intelligence operation whatsoever so this shit always hits them out of the blue. That’s going to have to change fast or we will be an oligarchy before 2020.

If Franken had advance warning this was going to hit he could have put it out first, along with his apology.

The Dems seem to collect a lot of money. I keep wondering what they use it for.

250
Dave In Austin  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:31:42pm

I got mine!!

An update on your report
Thanks again for letting us know. Our investigation found this account in violation of the Twitter Rules:

Baked AlaskaTM
@bakedalaska
We appreciate your help in improving everyone’s experience on Twitter. You can learn more about reporting abusive behavior here.

251
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:34:52pm
252
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:36:01pm

re: #249 Skip Intro

Some of the scratch was used in Virginia. Worked out pretty well.

253
JordanRules  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:40:07pm
254
Skip Intro  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:43:27pm

2 accidentally shot at East Tenn. church during church shooting discussion

TELLICO PLAINS, Tenn. (WATE) - Police say two people were accidentally shot at a church in Tellico Plains Thursday afternoon during a discussion about the recent church shooting in Texas.

The Tellico Plains Police Department says elder members of First United Methodist Church were meeting for a Thanksgiving dinner around 1 p.m. and began discussing the Texas shooting when someone asked if anyone brought a gun to their church.

A man spoke up and said he carries his everywhere he goes. He pulled the gun out, emptied the magazine and chamber, and then started passing the gun around.

Once the gun came back around to its owner, police say the man put the magazine back in and recharged the chamber, but accidentally squeezed the trigger. The gun went off, hitting the man in the hand and his wife in the abdomen.

wate.com

255
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:45:32pm

re: #253 JordanRules

256
Mike Lamb  Nov 16, 2017 • 3:47:12pm

re: #161 dangerman

did she decide to protect the world from future bad franken behavior?
was she blazing a trail so others (there had to be others!?!) would also come forward?

if this had been bothering her for all these years, she could have reached out to him directly.

doing this publicly was calculated.

Don’t do that.

257
retired cynic  Nov 16, 2017 • 4:20:35pm

re: #235 MsJ

The photo is the smaller problem, IMO, but there were certainly a number of others there. This one isn’t he said, she said. The photographer knows if he actually groped her. I think I would have awakened if that happened to me, unless there was just a finger brush.

If she is correct, and no one else was with them during The Kiss, that is the he said, she said.

Let the process play out. We can’t do otherwise, anyway.

258
petesh  Nov 16, 2017 • 4:27:19pm

re: #241 dangerman

not corroborated:

Partially corroborated: I think I saw it somewhere, sometime, as I said above

259
CBGB  Nov 16, 2017 • 4:34:35pm

re: #209 Blind Frog Belly White

“I feel like we’re veering close to a dangerous game here. What’s next, we look at her political contributions to decide whether she’s lying? Haven’t we spent the last week decrying exactly that sort of thing on the other side?”

YES. YES. YES YES YES.

THIS.


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