wonder why there was such a rush to diver blame away from the ROPMA?

That would fit with the Al Qaeda taking responsibility article you linked yesterday.

Spain: Let's roll.

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004
To: "Pres. George W. Bush" president@whitehouse.gov>
From: "Richard the lionheart"
Subject: It is time to declare War on Saudi Arabia

Dear Mr. President:
It is acknowledged throughout our government that Saudi Arabia is the chief financier and protector of the Wahhabi sect of Islam and of Al Qaeda and now because of the bombings in Spain (claimed by Al Queda in retaliation for Spanish help in our War-On-Terror) we are obliged and duty-bound to declare war upon Saudi Arabia as a protector and supporter of Al Qaeda and Islamic Jihad, and to give our support to Spain as they have done for us! We should denounce the Saudis in the United Nations and list them as part of the AXIS OF EVIL that they are! We should go ahead and bomb Saudi palaces of the king, and also the oil wells of the country, and also the towns of Mecca and Riyadh in retaliation for the the bombings in Spain and Indonesia, and for the continuing bombings in Iraq which are supported by and in many cases actively participated in by Saudi citizens. We owe this to the Spanish for their support of us and we owe it to our own dead caused by Saudi support of terrorism and terrorists.
To do less than I outline here, is to renege on your sworn duty and on what you have been preaching throughout your presidency!
Richard the Lionheart
P.S. You, too, can do your part if you would forward a similar message to the President

Rodemos......indeed

I still think it could be ETA, but this is definitely "Strike Two" type information against it being them.

La investigación realizada después concluye que los detonadores son de cobre, mientras que la organización terrorista suele usarlos de aluminio, según fuentes policiales.

The investigation finished after concluding that the detonators are copper, while the terrorist organization only uses aluminum ...

or something. It's been over 10 years since I've had any practice with the Spanish I learned in high school/college.

#3, because to direct blame in such way would be to acknowledge reality.

La Policía Científica concluye que los explosivos y detonadores no son los habituales de ETA.

I dont think it means a darn thing. New tactics, new explosives, deflect blame.

It wouldnt be the first time 2 terrorist organizations would cooperate either.

#9 CheezNCrackers

New tactics, new explosives, deflect blame.

Perhaps most importantly, for those leaning towards ETA responsibility, new leadership.

However, I can't see a group of young zealots not claiming their first Big One.

[basking in hat tip]

Still, I'm certainly not discarding this being ETA or another Basque group. But my money's on the islamists at this point.

This is interesting, because I read somewhere that the Spanish government thinks that they have some photos of the people who did this, and they think, or at least say, that it was ETA. Perhaps AQ and ETA are working together now. Not a pleasant thought.

I don't know if this is true or not.. (I just read it in another forum and didn't fact check it myself) but yesterday 3/11/04 was 911 days after 9/11.

Also exactly 30 months or half of 5 years.

the thrust was that all the 'numereralogical' coincidences pointed to an Al Quaeda linkage somehow.

Sounded a bit tin-foil hat to me, but was interesting anyway....

Quack Quack

SoCal ... its a duck

Via V the K in the previous thread: MEMRI doubts authenticity of AQ letter

I remain perplexed at the reflexive denial by governments of links to radical Islamic organizations. Another for instance on this topic is the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

As this article in WND shows, there remains a strong thread of evidence tying back to the Mideast...

I'm not a major fan of WND for news -- they've too strong an agenda -- but Jihad Watch, a more credible source, also picks up on a background story that other media seem averse to cover.

The Scientific Police concludes...

The Science police eh? Are they the ones that enforce the laws of physics?
*rimshot*

I don't know if this is true or not.. (I just read it in another forum and didn't fact check it myself) but yesterday 3/11/04 was 911 days after 9/11.

#13 Technically, it's 912 days afterward...

An interesting idea put forth in a previous thread was that maybe Spain prefers the perps to be AQ (bad terrorists) so they don't have to change their view/policy of ME politics (Palestinians= 'good' terrorists).

I don't think the lunar calander Islam uses has a leap year in it. Could that account for the extra day?

#19 wilinsky

An interesting idea put forth in a previous thread was that maybe Spain prefers the perps to be AQ (bad terrorists) so they don't have to change their view/policy of ME politics (Palestinians= 'good' terrorists).

The US hasn't altered their position on the PLO all that much since 9/11.

It is acknowledged throughout our government that Saudi Arabia is the chief financier and protector of the Wahhabi sect of Islam and of Al Qaeda and now because of the bombings in Spain (claimed by Al Queda in retaliation for Spanish help in our War-On-Terror) we are obliged and duty-bound to declare war upon Saudi Arabia as a protector and supporter of Al Qaeda and Islamic Jihad, and to give our support to Spain as they have done for u

#4 For what it's worth, the Saudis may also be perpetrators of an oil war against the US...

#17

LOL! Thank you for a bit of levity on an otherwise dark topic

From a separate Reuters story -- "a six and a half month old baby girl died Friday taking the death toll to 199"

This is the only upside of dealing with fanatics -- their inhumane methods show that they are incapable of being reasoned with -- so the necessity of destroying them becomes so clear that even LLLs (hopefully before its too late) wake up and choose between life via the destruction of the terrorists or subjagation & death.

I don't think the lunar calander Islam uses has a leap year in it. Could that account for the extra day?

#20 The calculation of 912 days between 9/11/01 and 3/11/04 is either an accident of fate or lousy mathematics on the part of the terrorists.

Amazing coincidence?

We've definitive proof of bin Laden's role in 9/11...

We've strong suspicion he's played a role in 3/11...

...and now we find his fingerprints at 7/11!

#21 Colt
That's the point. Suppose 9/11 had been perpetrated by MECHA (best analogy to ETA for Spain that I could come up with). In such a case, wouldn't you expect it to be harder to condemn the MECHA bombers in such a way as to still allow support for the PLO? If ETA did the train bombing, it would further blur the difference between them and the PLO. Anyway, that's the argument as I understand it. What do you think?

Even if there is no leap year in the Islamic calander doesn't mean that day didn't exist for them. Days happen no matter what sort of number or name people give to them.

#18

912 days...

Thanks for the fact check. The whole thing sounded urban legend/tinfoil hat to me, but i thought it was interesting enough to share (with the proper disclaimer attached).

I still think that this looks/feels a lot like an Al Queda for other reasons.... mass causualties, multiple locations, tight timing, no claim of credit by ETA, etc.

No no no.
It must be a Norwegian sect of worshippers of Odin.

#26 wilinsky

In such a case, wouldn't you expect it to be harder to condemn the MECHA bombers in such a way as to still allow support for the PLO?

In theory, of course. However, the PLO will probably always be considered 'different', whatever they do.

It's interesting that the Spanish are sticking to their guns on the perps being ETA.

#30 Colt:

It's interesting that the Spanish are sticking to their guns on the perps being ETA.

Actually, I think they're being more reserved today on this. From El País (with my own homemade, non-guaranteed translation):

"President... Aznar ... has made it clear that 'no line of investigation will be thrown out.' ... Aznar explained that yesterday the Executive branch directly blamed ETA because of 'the many indices that, as a logical hypothesis, pointed to them'. The Minister of the Interior, Angel Acebes, directly blamed ETA for the attacks yesterday morning, and hours later announced suspicions that the attacks were committed by islamic groups."

#31 Occasional Reader

Hmm. I think I trust the Spanish press more than the British on that one. Thanks for the info.

#30 Colt

As I understand it, the incumbent Spanish government has EVERYTHING to lose if it was Al Qaida and EVERYTHING to gain if it was ETA.

Anzar has taken an apparently unpopular stand in siding with America and Britain on the WoT and also taken a hardline stand on the Basque issue. This could either vindicate his positions or condemn them. If it was Al Qaida, it will look like he invited the hit for sending troops to Iraq, if it was the ETA, he is vindicated for his hardline stand.

Just the way I see it.

About the Dates...
BTW, a news outlet is saying it this way... 'there were 911 days between the attacks.'

Also, I think the attackers wanted to get as close to 911 days as they could and still keep the */11 date thing going, keeping in mind that 9/11/78 was the date the Camp David peace accord was signed between Egypt and Israel.

#33 Truth Junkie

As I understand it, Aznar was expected to win pretty comfortably. If it's ETA, it's a failure of his eight year war against them.

The Islamic calendar is hosed anyway, as it is based on the lunar calendar, and therefore has a 364 day year every year, except for the fact that the calendar can't be trusted per the Mohammadites, and the months are marked by actual sighting of the new phase of the moon, such that any particular Islamic month in practice varies from 28 to 30 days. (They have a "Rainy Day" limit of 30 days, IIRC, to cover for a prolonged cloudy period causing a 37 day month). Any-hoo, note that the holey Islamic month of Bombadon moves around through the solar year. This year it matches up fairly well with Christmas, Chanukkah and New Years, in a few decades it'll match with July 4.

#34 Colt

Good point, It looks like typical politics can be played here and I missed the subtlety (sp?) of it. The two ways it looks like it can be spun are

1) Eight years and we haven't won? Let's quit this madness and negotiate!
or
2) Eight years and now they are getting worse than ever! We can't give up! Let's finish this once and for all!

Oh well

#33...

Although we use the term "9/11" for the date the WTC and Pentagon were attacked, do they use the same kind of shorthand descriptor in the Mideast? And is the September 11th date convertible in Arabic to the number nine hundred eleven?

At the time of 9/11, I read an article (don't remember where) on the Muslim significance of that date. Something about being turned back by the infidels at the gates of Vienna. I would bet, assuming al Qaeda responsibility for 3/11, that a study of history will find a stunning Moorish defeat on this date for which they are now exacting revenge.

All of which is to say that I'm not convinced there is anything other than accidental significance to the fact that the Madrid bombings were a day more than 911 days after the attacks in the US.

Of course, this doesn't mean that our media won't grab at straws for a headline. Witness their treatment of the Susan Lindauer story...Saddam's Alleged U.S. Spy Linked to White House.

It's a terribly misleading head. But it sure grabs attention! By the way, Volokh points out that even calling Lindauer a spy is a misrepresentation of the facts.

#37 bpolsky

I hate those "bait and switch" headlines, but the pictures of this fruitbat are priceless. Especially the crazed look in her eyes, the smirk she can't seem to wipe off her face, and the "anti-war" bumper stickers on her car. Even to the uninformed, this doesn't reflect well on the anti-war movement

#38 Papijoe

Agreed. A pathetic fool.

No, she doesn't reflect well on the anti-war movement. But can you tell me anyone else who takes and reflects a truly moral stand against the war in Iraq? (Maybe JPII, who is an honorable man. The rest are mugging for the media or simply out to get Bush.)

Still, technically, Lindauer was arrested as a "foreign agent," not as a spy. And while it seems I may be mincing words, her actions were far from espionage. Hence, the distinction that Volokh draws.

Of course, as always, the media has blown this entirely out of proportion, dropped all sorts of false innuendos to support readership figures and promote ad sales. It's the nature of the beast.

And, yes, there are all those silly pictures...everyone smiles for their fifteen minutes of fame!

#39 bpolsky

everyone smiles for their fifteen minutes of fame!

LOL! Never thought of it that way, but I suspect you are right. This is probably a dream come thrue for her!

Special English Edition PDF document about the Madrid atrocity at the El Pais website.

#40 Papijoe

Thanks.

It's late on a Friday afternoon and I'm killing time. But there's a poison eating away at me...

I read the news. Against the backdrop of the carnage in Madrid, DEBKAfile posts this item:

In Al Aqsa Friday sermon of unprecedented anti-Jewish virulence, Muslim preacher referred to Jews as “sons of monkeys and pigs,” and “murderers of prophets.” Loudspeakers boomed across Jerusalem’s Old City with his message condemning the Jews to “total extinction”

DEBKAfile’s sources affirm Arafat signs off on all Temple Mount sermons before delivery. Palestinian experts interpret this latest opus as Arafat’s response to Egyptian envoy Suleiman’s appeal to him in Ramallah this week to defuse hostile climate and help generate fresh peacemaking momentum.

The international community, in an echo to a different JFK ("Ich bin ein Berliner"), declares us all Madrillenos.

But there's no similar outcry from the community when the bomb is on a bus in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. There's no hew and cry, "We're all Jews."

I know, I know...if you're on this site, if you're reading this, you're one of the choir (or a troll pretending to be!)

But I am haunted still by the picture of five-month old Shmuel Tabenfeld and the relative silence and lack of outrage from the world community.

And I am outraged.

But like I said before, it's late on a Friday afternoon. I should go home to my family, hug my wife and my children. And be thankful for my blessings.

#42 bpolsky:
Shabbat Shalom

#43 cba...

To you as well!