LGF

-RetweetNow It's Getting Really Weird

Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 4:32:41 pm PDT

Here’s Flipper’s latest shaggy dog story: VC the Swift Boat Dog.

A new four-legged angle — actually a dog named “VC” — has suddenly materialized surrounding Sen. John Kerry’s swift boat service in Vietnam.

In a 2004 presidential candidate questionnaire for Humane USA, Mr. Kerry was asked whether any pets have had an impact on his life.

“I have always had pets in my life, and there are a few that I remember very fondly,” Mr. Kerry replied. “When I was serving on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC.”

“One day as our Swift Boat was heading up a river, a mine exploded hard under our boat,” he continued. “After picking ourselves up, we discovered VC was MIA (missing in action). Several minutes of frantic search followed, after which we thought we’d lost him. We were relieved when another boat called asking if we were missing a dog.”

Said Mr. Kerry: “It turns out VC was catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed, confused but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol.”

J.J. Scheele, program director of Humane USA, confirmed yesterday that her organization did, in fact, receive the above statement from the Kerry campaign.

No military records on Mr. Kerry’s Web site, which aides say is a complete accounting, mention a mine exploding under his boat or any dog. The only report of a mine detonating “near” Mr. Kerry’s PCF 94 was March 13, 1969, when Mr. Kerry says he was injured and a man knocked overboard.

UPDATE at 8/25/04 6:49:11 pm:

More on this very odd story, from March of this year, at ThoughtsOnline.

This can’t be believed, can it?

Kerry’s boat was “heading up a river”, which means the boat was moving. I assume Naval doctrine in those days called for ships to maintain a minimum distance from one another in order to minimize damage and casualties in the event one ship draws hostile fire, hits a mine, etc. How far away from Kerry’s boat was this other boat - 20 yards, 50 yards, 100 yards? Even if they weren’t strictly adhering to doctrine, there ought to have been some separation; there’s no reason I can think why one boat would be running upriver with another boat tied to its stern.

So, we have Kerry claiming that his ship hit a mine that generated enough explosive energy to propel this dog (the weight of the dog is unknown, so I can’t do the physics calculation... hey, I’m not a physics major so I couldn’t do the calcs even if I knew the weight of the dog) some 40 yards or so through the air, without hurting the dog? Unlikely.

Now, what are the odds of the dog being catapulted from Kerry’s moving boat and landing on another moving boat? It must have been the perfect combination of launch angle, distance, explosive force, trajectory and the like for that to have happened. I know for a fact that this is no easy thing to do: think how hard it is to win that silly carnival frog game - and that’s from a stationary platform. Maybe this happens in the movies, but not in real life. Wait a minute, in the remake of Starsky & Hutch, they tried launching a car into the air trying to land it on a moving boat. They failed miserably. So, I take it back, it doesn’t even happen in the movies.

And, Kerry’s account refers only to “picking ourselves up” after the explosion. There’s an explosion so forceful that it launches the dog into near earth orbit and all Kerry and his crew have to do is ‘pick themselves up’? Again, I’m no physics major, but wouldn’t it reasonable to think that an explosion with that much force wouldn’t have seriously damaged the boat? What about his crew - granted they’re all likely to have been bigger than the dog, and perhaps better able to absorb the shock, but none of them were hurt, knocked out, knocked overboard?

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225 comments

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1 Dave Ray  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:35:05pm

this man sure did a lot in 4 months...he's now even befriended a dog...awww...sounds like a lassie episode.

2 Radian  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:35:13pm

He must have been watching Apocalapse Now when he came up with this one..

Where's the dog, man!?

3 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:35:29pm

Does Jean-Kerrie share a brain with Al Gore?

4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:35:38pm

Wonder what PETA'll say about this?

5 Don  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:36:15pm

This guy is a nut job who just makes stuff up! We all know people like that, usually very insecure and/or with other psychological problems. Definitely not anyone you'd want to be President.

6 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:39:31pm

Bwa ha ha! OMG. This is too priceless. I'd love to hear what the Swiftees say about "VC the dog".

7 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:39:38pm

Melt down. Botox...killing...brain cells. Must...self-destruct.

8 J.D.  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:39:39pm

Well, that's normal.
Bill got a dog when the heat was on, IIRC.

9 lester1/2jr  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:40:16pm

hey if anyones tired of reading about dumb commie kerry check out lynne cheneys excellent novel "sisters"

a heartbreaking, yet ultimately uplifting tale of lesbian love. celebrates birth control as liberation and other hairy feminist propaganda from the 70's.

10 Geepers  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:40:22pm

If you were tasked with going on dangerous river patrol missions wouldn't you take a barking dog along to get underfoot during firefights?

11 JWarrior  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:40:50pm

The guy is a pathological liar.

It would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact that he has a chance of becoming President of the United States.

I really hope that doesn't happen!

12 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:40:54pm

Is there anything else he can milk four months in Vietnam for? A pony to join his dog-and-pony show?

13 J.D.  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:41:55pm

#10 Geepers

Yeah; and a video camera. Definitely.

14 Snake Plissken  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:42:23pm

Scary.

He sounds positively psychotic. Next thing he'll claim he surfed the Mekong because "Charlie don't surf!"

15 Lizzel  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:43:05pm
catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed, confused but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol

Yes, I watched it Sunday Morning on the cartoon channel

16 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:43:14pm
17 chukardog  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:43:43pm

nobody here thinks the story of the dog being catapulted from one boat to another as slightly unbelieveable? Could this whole deal get any more bizzare? how much longer can the MSM cover for this Twit?

18 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:44:17pm

How fast would the boat have to jump for the dog to be catapulted? Not saying he made it up, but I'm trying to picture how the dog got to the other boat.

I still say, Kerry is trying to figure out a way to say he was a POW. That's all that's missing.

19 Maui Girl  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:44:23pm

Doesn't Kerry's story just prove how close together those swift boats are? When you're that close, it should be pretty easy to see what's going on in the boat next to you yet some media pundits keep harping about how none of the SBVFT can form an opinion or make "eye witness" statements regarding serving with John Kerry because "they weren't on the same boat as JFK".

I think the shrapnel embedded in his leg (or whereever), has migrated to his brain.

20 zombie  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:44:56pm

Growing up, I used to know little boys just like that: they'd embellish stories, make up absurd lies, fantasize about boastful scenarios -- even when they didn't need to. It got to the point where the other kids would wince whenever one of those kinds of boys would open his mouth, knowing some cockamamie fantastic tale would come out.

John Kerry is one of those boys. I mean, he's still one of those boys, even though he's supposedly an adult.

Absolutely, completely embarrassing. If I was a Kerry supporter, I'd be really really depressed right about now.
If I was still a Democrat, I'd be frantically searching for a new candidate to fill in for Kerry when he's forced out in a couple weeks.

21 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:45:18pm
“When I was serving on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC.

Should read: "When I was serving on a Swift Boat in Vietnam (did I mention that I served in Vietnam?), my crewmates and I ate a dog and shot some VC (in the back).

22 brianstien  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:46:46pm

Limbaugh's stand-in host (don't remember his name) today was trying to confirm/deny rumors that Kerry has requested time on Meet The Press & 60 Minutes; during which he might offer some apology to all those American "war criminals" he villified.

23 Billy Hank  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:47:30pm

#8 LOL

24 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:47:30pm
"Now we're up to our long distance dedication, and this one is about sailors and pets, and a situation we can all understand, whether we are sailors or have pets or neither. It comes from a sailor in Cambodia, and here's what he writes.
'Dear Casey, This may seem to be a strange dedication request, but I am quite sincere and it will mean a lot if you play it. Recently there was a death on our boat. He was a little dog named VC, but he was most certainly a part of...' let's go...start again"
"Coming out of the record, play the record, ok. Please..."
"Emmm... too many... Come out of those goddamn up-tempo numbers, man, It's impossible to make those transitions. Then you gotta go into somebody's presidential campaign dying! Goddamn it if we can't come out of slow records. I don't understand it, Why aren't we doing these instrumentals, too? Do we got 'em?"
"Will somebody find the goddamn answer?"
"OK"
"I want a goddamn concerted effort to come out of a record, that isn't a... a fucking up-tempo record , every time I do a goddamn ...Death Dedication! This is the last goddamn time. I want somebody to use his fucking brain to not come out of a goddamn record that is a ... up-tempo, and I gotta talk about a fucking presidential campaign dying!!!"
"What is this... this is fucking ponderous, man..."
25 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:47:46pm

This Kerry guy just makes things up! Remember from a few months back his comment that ' Foreign Leaders assured me that they want me to win ' ? I thought it was very Quisling of him at the time - what pre-done deals did he have in reserve, and who could vote for him without knowing? But now I feel better, it was just wishful thinking... WOW !!!

26 veebee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:47:51pm

One thing we really need is a compulsive liar in the Oval Office.

27 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:48:26pm

Does anyone think that George might bring this up in one of the debates?

28 piglet  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:49:49pm

Kerry even rescued a puppy, Victoria Charlotte, or VC. His crewmates bought it from villagers who were planning to cook it for dinner. "Once the bullets started flying, he'd put the dog in his flak vest against his tummy," said Sandusky. "In the middle of an ambush, she'd start shaking and she'd pee on him." Until today, the puppy stars in Kerry's war stories. Kerry's daughter, Vanessa, 27, explained: "He wanted there to be a good VC."

Racist!

And the dog wasn't named after the Viet Cong?

[Link: www.johnkerry.com...]

29 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:50:23pm

#22

You'd think there are some high level meetings by Kerry staff on how to handle this. If attacking the Swiftboat guys doesn't work, maybe he'll do the right thing. The sympathy angle may help him.

"Many years ago, I did something that I now regret. After I got back from the combat of Vietnam, I was..."

30 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:50:47pm

# 26 vb

..."in the Oval Office" **again**

Amen!
:-)

31 zulubaby  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:51:05pm
32 LesLein  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:51:17pm

Today's Best of the Web has another seared-in-memory moment. When talking about Martin Luther King's assassination (Will Moslems claim credit for that word?), Kerry said:

"I remember well April 1968--I was serving in Vietnam--a place of violence--when the news reports brought home to me and my crewmates the violence back home--and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of that unabashedly maladjusted citizen."

Can anyone spot the problem here?


I mentioned the shaggy dog story at this site 5 months ago. One poster didn't believe the story See post #239 . I rate a hat tip.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

33 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:52:03pm

zombie -

Heh. Reminds me of my best friend in 2nd grade. George Wallace had just been shot in a shopping center in Laurel, MD, about 20 miles from where I live - my friend claimed (remember, we were both in 2nd grade) to have wrestled the assailant to the ground.

34 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:52:07pm

zombie: [and here my utter historical ignorance shines through] is there any precedent for a candidate being forced out after being nominated, and replaced?

35 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:52:20pm

Edwards must be wondering, "Why did I ever agree to team up with this guy and his campaign commettee? They're all nuts".

36 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:52:41pm

I gotta ask, is there anything Kerry will not pull out of his ass on the spot in this campaign? Did he not learn his lesson with the whole "special hat" incident? And besides, I thought Johnny wanted us to drop the Vietnam issue and focus on the more important things...like how he's taking his cues from all of Bush's plans.

37 dennisw-matamoros  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:52:41pm

Easily verifiable if John Kerry had a dog named VC... Just ask some of the Swift Vets. I think it just might be true though the dog being catapulted onto another swift boat sounds like bs.

[Link: www.mwilliams.info...]

March 16, 2004 John Kerry's Dog
Random Musings Michael Williams

This is just a little bizarre to me, but apparently John Kerry had a dog named VC while he was in Vietnam.

From a Humane Society questionnaire answered by John Kerry (link in PDF): Do you have any pets that have made an impact on you personally?

When I was serving on a swiftboat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC. ...

38 johnCV  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:53:41pm

But did the dog get a Purple Heart? Sounds like a combat related contusion.

VC for VP, the hero ticket.

39 joel2  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:53:47pm

Hey I just posted this crap about the dog on another thread along with this made up bit, too:

Did you know I was in Vietnam when MLK was killed?

40 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:54:10pm

LesLein -

I saw that too - and what the hell is the "unabashedly maladjusted citizen" comment all about? Is this quote actually for real?

41 CrusaderGirl  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:54:54pm

This same report was covered a couple of months ago on OpinionJournal's Best of the Web.

Here's the link

I forgot all about this.

42 schroedinger's other cat  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:55:01pm

Interviewer: Sen. Kerry, if crude oil futures remained at the current price and you were elected President, what would you do to try and stabilize or lower the price?

J F'n Kerry: Sam, that is a very good question. When I was on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, you know, those boats use a lot of oil, and they . . .

43 dennisw-matamoros  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:55:32pm

The Dogs of War
From a Humane Society questionnaire answered by John Kerry (link in PDF):

Do you have any pets that have made an impact on you personally?

When I was serving on a swiftboat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC. We all took care of him, and he stayed with us and loved riding on the swiftboat deck. I think he provided all of us with a link to home and a few moments of peace and tranquility during a dangerous time. One day as our swiftboat was heading up a river, a mine exploded hard under our boat. After picking ourselves up, we discovered VC was MIA. Several minutes of frantic search followed after which we thought we'd lost him. We were relieved when another boat called asking if we were missing a dog. It turns out VC was catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed confused, but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol.

44 Rayra[deleted]  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:55:51pm
45 Dave Ray  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:56:13pm

12 Ibu Guru:

Is there anything else he can milk four months in Vietnam for? A pony to join his dog-and-pony show?

...brings to mind a little Cockney rhyming slang...a pony means crap (rhymes with pony and trap you see)...

so Mr Kerry is talking a right load of pony!

46 niall  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:56:24pm

#28

"In the middle of an ambush, she'd start shaking and she'd pee on him."

A likely story. Blame the wet pants on the dog. Uh huh.

47 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:56:27pm

Is this Kerry's lame attempt at garnering the fuzzy four pawed "Non-opposable thumb" vote?

What a dork.

48 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:56:29pm

did the dog get a Purple Heart?

Oh G-d, this is too much...:)

I'm way too tired to laugh right now..ouch, this is going to be painful...

49 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:56:45pm

#33 Frank IBC:

Heh. Reminds me of my best friend in 2nd grade. George Wallace had just been shot in a shopping center in Laurel, MD, about 20 miles from where I live - my friend claimed (remember, we were both in 2nd grade) to have wrestled the assailant to the ground.

LMAO!

50 Carolina Girl  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:57:05pm

#12 ibu guru

Considering all the s**t Kerry's been shoveling, I'm surprised there ISN"T a pony in there somewhere.

Shoot, if it was the Gulf War, Kerry would have Shecky the Camel on the damn boat!

51 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:58:06pm

# 34 ev

No-one can recall replacing a candidate this late in the game -- we discussed that in a thread last week. The Lautenberg NJ '02 move is the closest scenario people raise -- and that involved the Nj Sup. Court essentially blowing off existing election law ...

52 addison  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 2:59:08pm

#46,

If it were a "she", then wouldn't "she" urinate down and not on pants legs? The only way I have ever seen a female dog use the bathroom is in a crouch.

53 Radian  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:00:10pm

>RESUME OF: JOHN F. KERRY
>
>RESIDENCE
>7 mansions, including Washington DC, worth multimillions
>
>EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE
>Law Enforcement
>
>I voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my career as
>a US Senator I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant in front of my
>mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the event of a fire.
>
>MILITARY
>I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and
>service in Vietnam. I then returned to the US, joined Jane Fonda in
>protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they
>committed atrocities and were baby killers. I threw my medals, ribbons, or
>something away in protest. Or did I?
>My book "Vietnam Veterans Against the War: The New Soldier" shows how I
>truly feel about the military.
>
>COLLEGE
>I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my
>counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get
>admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A
>
>PAST WORK EXPERIENCE
>I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have no real
>world experience except marrying rich women and running HJ Heinz
>vicariously through my wife Teresa.
>
>ACCOMPLISHMENTS as US Senator
>I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted
>Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to support our
>military and CIA by voting against budgets, thus gutting our country's
>ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War. Now I am
>against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it.
>I voted for every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this
>country but I intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected.
>My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will
>never catch up. I make no or little charitable contributions and have never
>agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in MA, despite family wealth in
>excess of $ 700 million. My wife is worth in excess of $1 billion.
>Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy
>and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might
>spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts...NIMBY.
>
>RECORDS AND REFERENCES
>None.
>
>PERSONAL
>I ride a Serotta Bike.
>My Gulfstream V Jet I call "The Flying Squirrel"
>I call my $850,000 42 foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scaramouche".
>I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and you had better listen to it as it
>reflects our real culture.
>I own several SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion,
>though I am against large polluting inefficient vehicles and blame George
>Bush for the energy problems.
>
>PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004

54 CrusaderGirl  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:01:03pm

Man, that was one crowded boat. Guns, CIA agents, a crew, SF commandos, Navy Seals, and a barking, flying dog.

Doesn't he have a staff that should tell him to shut up?

This is sad.

55 Model4  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:01:13pm

Good thoughts on this:


This can't be believed, can it?

Kerry's boat was "heading up a river", which means the boat was moving. I assume Naval doctrine in those days called for ships to maintain a minimum distance from one another in order to minimize damage and casualties in the event one ship draws hostile fire, hits a mine, etc. How far away from Kerry's boat was this other boat - 20 yards, 50 yards, 100 yards? Even if they weren't strictly adhering to doctrine, there ought to have been some separation; there's no reason I can think why one boat would be running upriver with another boat tied to its stern.

So, we have Kerry claiming that his ship hit a mine that generated enough explosive energy to propel this dog (the weight of the dog is unknown, so I can't do the physics calculation... hey, I'm not a physics major so I couldn't do the calcs even if I knew the weight of the dog) some 40 yards or so through the air, without hurting the dog? Unlikely.

Now, what are the odds of the dog being catapulted from Kerry's moving boat and landing on another moving boat? It must have been the perfect combination of launch angle, distance, explosive force, trajectory and the like for that to have happened. I know for a fact that this is no easy thing to do: think how hard it is to win that silly carnival frog game - and that's from a stationary platform. Maybe this happens in the movies, but not in real life. Wait a minute, in the remake of Starsky & Hutch, they tried launching a car into the air trying to land it on a moving boat. They failed miserably. So, I take it back, it doesn't even happen in the movies.

And, Kerry's account refers only to "picking ourselves up" after the explosion. There's an explosion so forceful that it launches the dog into near earth orbit and all Kerry and his crew have to do is 'pick themselves up'? Again, I'm no physics major, but wouldn't it reasonable to think that an explosion with that much force wouldn't have seriously damaged the boat? What about his crew - granted they're all likely to have been bigger than the dog, and perhaps better able to absorb the shock, but none of them were hurt, knocked out, knocked overboard?


Anybody care to pick up and run with this?

Da link.I wonder if they're going to do an "All Kerry" episode of "Mythbusters."

56 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:02:08pm

This from Hugh Hewitt's site, [Link: www.hughhewitt.com...]

A new poll in Arizona shows why Kerry is panicked, and why he won't be taking many questions from the media soon. There was a nine point swing in favor of the president in this poll in the last 30 days --and Arizona has been targeted by Kerry. More bad news in the poll: "The poll suggests that Bush's increasing support is largely coming from registered independents." And, I'll bet, veterans.
57 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:03:41pm

Well, heck, at least the dog wasn't hurt.

That's important.

If there was a dog, that is.

58 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:03:51pm

#9 Lester

a heartbreaking, yet ultimately uplifting tale of lesbian love. celebrates birth control as liberation and other hairy feminist propaganda from the 70's.

Hmmm, a lesbian who needs birth control to feel liberated? She must not be doing it right.

59 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:05:45pm

"But...but...but Doctor...'she' said it was just a really, really big clitoris..."

60 Birkel  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:06:25pm

Does this mean the dog couldn't testify about events of that day because "he was on another boat" and had no first hand knowledge of the explosion?

61 brianstien  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:06:39pm

#54 CrusaderGirl

What’s really sad/infuriating/loathsome is that the MSM won’t call him on ANY of it.

62 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:06:58pm

#54 CrusaderGirl

We're seeing the same thing happen to Kerry that we saw happen to Dean. When he isn't talking, one of the other loose cannon bunch (Dean, Gore, Teresa, etc) are. Combined with his own history coming back to haunt him and he's in it deep. You can see it in the desperation of his party to shut down anybody who questions Kerry's past. They've come to that sinking realization that, with less than 70 days til the election, they've backed the wrong horse and it's too late to drop him by the wayside for someone else.

63 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:07:51pm

OT

!?

Ok so who did that ?

Alright if this comment of mine is a strange mystery to you, please overlook it, but to whoever did that,

OMG man I'm all shook up about this !!!

I feel like I don't deserve this, this is too much, I don't know what to say, I'm in shock here ...

Man, I'm all flushed out red and dizzy from this.

!?

64 gbl  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:08:36pm

Dog gone it!

Just another story that keeps "dogging" the Kerry campaign.

Thank god it wasn't a "cat" or this story would really have nine lives.

And frankly what are the chances of this dog being "catapulted" from one boat to the other. Maybe these Swiftboats were really close to one another -- just close enough to see what was really going on during all those fire fights, trips to Cambodia, etc.

65 moonflower  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:08:44pm

I seem to remember that someone (Allah?) did a priceless photoshop awhile back about this - this dog thing came to light first several months ago - it might even have been before he got the nomination.

I will try to find it.

What a maroon.

66 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:09:06pm
they've backed the wrong horse and it's too late to drop him by the wayside for someone else.

Aw hell, it's never too late. Just ask the New Jersey Supreme Court.

67 mcg  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:10:43pm

Here is a link to a picture of the dog:

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

68 Beagle  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:11:06pm

There must be a simple explanation for this, like the transporter from Star Trek. As in, no way does a dog get catapulted, BVR, and land anywhere unharmed.

BVR

69 SoCalJustice  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:11:48pm
"I have always had pets in my life, and there are a few that I remember very fondly," Mr. Kerry replied. "When I was serving on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC.

Kerry was in Vietnam?

And he served on a Swift Boat?

I vaguely recall someone mentioning that in passing, but it's flat out weird to see it in print.

/sarc

OT

'Arab News' wins award for most obvious headline of the day:

Americans Are Different From Saudis

Ya don't say?

This part was cool though:

The concept of dignity in America is individual. Ours is collective. What I mean is that an American sees himself as an independent unit within a whole. We see ourselves as dependant units that make a whole. Our dignity is that of our leader, not ours individually. How else could you explain the presence of so many who are actually willing to die for a man like Moqtada Sadr? Historically, Shiite theologians and imams were known for superlative eloquence and impressive scholarship, neither of which this man seems to have. He can hardly string three words in one simple sentence.

heh.

70 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:12:02pm

Anybody just see Atty Ben Ginsberg on O'Reilly?
O'Reilly tried to spin it Kerry's way but Ginsberg would have none of it.

71 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:12:14pm

We kept a pet African Cobra aboard the USS Chuck Wagon.


It was a real pissah when he bit the XO during a command inspection, and they had to amputate his leg at the knee to save his life.

72 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:12:38pm

Doesn't he have a staff that should tell him to shut up?

Karl Rove knows better than to do that. :)

73 SoCalJustice  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:13:39pm

(#67) mcg

That's actually a really cute little dog.

Ahh, V.C.

74 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:13:41pm

# 71 Ed

Ay yi yi! Did somebody wind up with brig time for that stunt?

75 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:18pm

#28 piglet --

And he was angry, quietly angry, seething angry, ...

I thought only 'slims seethed. Kerry seethes, too?

Po' widdle toddler-tantrums. P'raps they needs their seething rings?

76 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:30pm

72 Frank IBC
Subtle humor, eh?

77 Jacob LaRow  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:34pm

I work with a guy like Kerry at Pepsi Cola. We might be somewhere on an install and if you point out a restaurant and said I took a shit there once he would come around and say he took two.

Always gotta puff up the image

78 Marc Poitras  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:37pm

Kerry also told the dog story (blow off boat by a mine) at the dedication ceremony for Swift Boat One in 1995. It's in a Boston Globe piece by Oliphant (who else?) but I can't find it right now.

79 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:51pm

is this the WNDT?

80 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:14:58pm

#67 mcg -

Er, maybe it's me and my one-track mind, but the position of lil' VC's front right paw is, uh, just a little bit kinky.

81 Thom  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:16:37pm

#67 mcg

QUICK!! Somebody email that pic to Cliff Yablonski!

82 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:16:44pm

# 79 Ed

To John O'Neil, Ben Ginsberg, Steve Gardner, and the rest of those working for SBVFT, who continue to not falter under a barrage of media attacks ...

Salud!!

83 Connecticut Yankee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:16:55pm

My question is whether Kerry ever gave VC the same kind of CPR treatment he gave Licorice the hamster. Sounds like he can't tell the difference between "veteran" and "veterinarian."

I notice that his daughter said at the DNC, "The passion of his words makes me remember them, still, ten years later. He said: 'I know men your exact age, who thought they had the same future you have. Whose families were never born, who never again walked on American soil. They don't feel this sun. Ali,' he said. 'If there's something you don't like, something that needs to be changed, change it.'"

I guess that includes his biography, which seems to change on a daily basis.

(link to transcript: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

84 moonflower  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:16:58pm

Yes, Allahpundit has this in the archives for March 19, 2004 - I don't know how to pull just that page out of the archives. Worth seeing, though.

85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:17:26pm

#66 Lizard by the Bay

Aw hell, it's never too late. Just ask the New Jersey Supreme Court.

Yeah, but then they run into a few problems.

- Few viable candidates they can propose that don't have a history as bad or worse than Kerry

- The deadline for alot of states has already come and gone to get a new candidate's name on the ballot

- There'd be little time to actually promote a new candidate as better than Bush, which would turn off alot of voters

- And finally, any decision now to drop Kerry for someone different could be seen by Democratic voters as an act of desperation by the party

86 Cornholio  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:17:41pm

Why would he name his dog VC? That's like if I named my dog Al-Quaeda.

87 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:18:02pm

"Lil' VC, I'd like to introduce you to Pvt. Partz."

88 Abu Maven  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:18:08pm

Radian 53

Did Kerry really have a low C average at Yale?

89 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:19:15pm

Is Kerry's biography a hardcover or a 3-ring binder?

90 Mr Pol  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:20:19pm

#86 Cornholio

How else could he claim to have kicked VC's ass?

91 moonflower  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:20:33pm

And by the way, what ultimately happened to VC? Was she a casualty of war? Left in Viet Nam by Lt. Kerry to what ever fate awaited her? Brought home by Lt. Kerry?

Inquiring minds want to know. And maybe PETA, too.

92 Birkel  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:21:24pm

OT-

Someone mentioned O'Reilly above...

Now he's talking about the absolutely tone deaf ads that MoveOn or whoever have produced using a bunch of Hollywood tools. Man, don't they have one guy at any of these lefty, crackpot, ridiculous groups who know one friggin' thing about one friggin' thing?

For goodness sake, can't they hire one guy from Nebraska or Mississippi or one of the Dakotas to get some sense into all the hooey?

I want to be surprised by all this but spent too much time in school to think I ought to be actually surprised.

And I just saw the ad about Edwards/Kennedy blocking Judge Janice Rogers Brown's nomination. It was on FOX and was appealing to blacks. Also very tone deaf.

93 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:21:30pm

#45 Dave Ray --

Leave it to the Cockneys! LOL!

But actually the phrase comes from PR -- when you really have to push a PR campaign, you trot out everything you have, including the dog and the pony.

94 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:22:14pm

You know, when I was shot down in my F-14M Super Tomcat after dropping a load of CBU-69XXX JDAMS on Saddam's bunker during GW1, a Kiowa pilot I'll never forget, 20 mm cannon blazing, flew in to rescue me from the al-Kahool division of the elite Republican Guard.

As I lay injured on the floor the chopper, I felt a warm, wet sensation on my tired neck. "What was that?" I exclaimed.


"Don't worry", said Minigun, "that's my dog Saddam".

That memory is seared, seared, into my head. It was Christmas Day, 1989. I'll never forget.

95 SoCalJustice  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:22:16pm

(#53) Radian

>COLLEGE
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A

For the record, Kerry graduated from the Boston College School of Law and was a prosecutor in a Boston suburb for a while afterwards, mostly IIRC because he lost his first few runs at elective office.

96 GW  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:22:58pm

#67 MCG

Not much of a meal, is it...

97 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:25:28pm

I remember when George Hebert Walker Bush in his State of the Union address in 1988 said there were no US troops in Macho Grande.


Minigun and I knew better.

98 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:25:54pm

#50 Carolina Girl --
If you've ever ridden a camel, they smell t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e!! A very rocky ride, too. Can't say dragging one in on a dog-and-pony show would help salvage a losing PR battle.

But then I can't put such an idea past Kerry. His nose has been up so many you-knows, he probably wouldn't notice.

99 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:26:44pm

#97 Ed

Over Macho Grande?

100 Cornholio  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:26:52pm

#90 Mr Pol 

LOL. I forgot. Kerry liked the VC. The dog name makes sense!

101 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:26:53pm

# 94 Ed

Best. Minigun. Post. Ever.

102 Mr Pol  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:27:34pm

#98 ibu guru

The damned beasts bite, too.

103 the lgf kiddie table  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:27:41pm

justdanny, that's for us to know and you to wonder about. We love you man! :-)
We justdanny [cos he is the shit!]
Have some olives.

104 riverofpearls  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:28:32pm

Why isn't the dog in the pics of Kerry and his mates?

105 Radian  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:29:07pm

95

just a forward, meant as a joke smear.

I did not check the email for fact. Sorry guys..

It sounded funny so I posted it. I have no proof and do not maintain it is true.

It is kinda funny.

106 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:29:40pm

#97

Wow, a gratuitous Airplane reference and the finest troll-spanking in LGF history all rolled into one post. Ed, I am in awe.

107 J.D.  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:30:14pm

#88 Abu Maven

Someone here (at least I think it was here) posted some handwritten pages of Kerry's from waaay baaack thennn and his writing ability was extraordinarily weak.

108 Chap  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:30:15pm

Off topic, and I crossposted this info here:

The Greater Hampton Roads World Affairs Council is a nice group of folks who drag people to come talk to them in public. They have the advantage of some senior retirees and proximity to Washington, D.C.

On 16 September, at the Norfolk Airport Hilton, they have an interesting guest: Dr. Khaled A. Al-Maeena, Editor-In-Chief, Arab News. You might have heard of that little organization. Saudi newspaper, you know. Slight worldview difference and all that.

Can someone alert the lizardoid minions? One of them might want to spring for a ticket…

109 jrdroll  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:30:20pm

Vietnam just doggin' chez kerry.

110 Frank IBC  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:30:33pm

ibu guru -

You can get seasick riding a camel. You sit very high off the ground, and unlike a horse, a camel lifts both legs on one side with each step, so there's a pronounced swaying. (I rode one in Jericho.)

111 GW  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:31:24pm

#94 Ed

lol

Where is that thread?

112 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:31:35pm

92 Birkel
O'Reilly is in the right pew but the wrong church.
He's advocating Kerry have a press conference, answer all questions and be done with it.
Not gonna happen.
First, the questions that would be asked, he has no coherent answers for.
Next, that would just raise more questions.
Finally, the SwiftVets aren't going to go away even after Kerry tries to spin his way out of it.
Kerry knows this. He knows his only hope is to discredit the SwiftVets.
And it's not working with the veterens in this country.
And it seems to be swinging enough of the undecided, if the most recent polls are any indication.

113 SoCalJustice  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:31:55pm

(#105) Radian

just a forward, meant as a joke smear.

Well, unfortunately for Kerry, a lot of the stuff in there is true.

114 Mr Pol  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:34:01pm

OT: US Charges Cyprus, Belarus Banks with Money Laundering

The United States is targeting two foreign banks for sanctions under anti-terrorism laws designed to crack down on money laundering.

The U.S. Treasury Department is accusing Infobank of Belarus of having helped the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein launder funds obtained through violations of the United Nations' oil-for-food program. It is also accusing First Merchant Bank of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus of ties to organized crime and serving as a conduit for money laundering.

The Treasury Department is proposing one of the harshest sanctions at its disposal: cutting the banks off from the U.S. financial system.

Somebody finally understood the need to go after the terrorism wallet.

115 Connecticut Yankee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:34:55pm

VC must have been the original yellow dog Democrat.

116 Marc Poitras  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:36:07pm

The Boston Globe, June 14, 1995:

Because some memories never die, it mattered little that Kerry, Whitlow and a dozen other highly decorated veterans of the 65-foot-long swift boats churned through the Potomac River rather than the once-treacherous Bay Hap or Dong Cung rivers in Vietnam.
The veterans were making the swift boats' last run, a 90-mile journey up the Potomac from the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren, Va., to the Washington Navy Yard, where the boats are to be formally retired, closing a chapter in US naval history...

For Kerry, action never seemed far away. "He was the type who, if no other crew would take the job, he would take it," said Whitlow, a former gunner from Huntsville, Ark., who made his career in the Navy.

But his crew trusted him, said Tom Belodeau, an electrician from Lowell, who manned an M-60 machine gun on the bow of Kerry's boat. "He understood that his crew and his boat could get along without him, but that he couldn't along without them," said Belodeau. "We all respected each other."

Kerry, clad yesterday in a brown leather jacket adorned with a "Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club" patch, reminisced with Whitlow and Belodeau on their four-hour journey up the Potomac, a reunion they said they never expected to occur.

Kerry joked about the time a Vietnamese woman nearly gave birth in Whitlow's arms as their boat sped to a medical unit. And he reminded Belodeau of the day a water mine exploded under the boat, catapulting their dog, VC, from the deck of their boat onto a nearby swift boat.

117 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:37:11pm

The definitive Minigun thread?

Someone on a better connection than my 2 cans and a string modem will have to look.

National Geographic Channel.


An Australian guy paid to chase hurricanes and typhoons to photograph them.

What a lucky guy. Almost the perfect job.

118 stoj  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:38:27pm
One day, they came across 42 sick and starving Vietnamese. Despite orders to leave the villagers, Kerry ferried them to an American base for relief. He told Brinkley, "For an afternoon, it felt good to really be helping the Vietnamese instead of destroying their villages."

Kerry even rescued a puppy, Victoria Charlotte, or VC. His crewmates bought it from villagers who were planning to cook it for dinner.

Why did he steal food from the starving people!!!

Oh well.

119 Miggie  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:38:28pm

Real Band of Brothers

Hope this isn't a duplicate.

120 Birkel  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:38:32pm

FrankNH #112

Not defending O'Reilly. Can't make me.

Attacking the ridiculous MoveOn ads.

Didn't think the attack on Edwards/Kennedy was very well targeted either. (In NC, on Fox, obviously targeted at black voters)

SwiftVets ad works 'cause it's from the heart, not targeted by some focus group tested DC insiders

121 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:40:44pm

OT: The war was all about tattoos :)

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

122 My 2 Cents  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:41:03pm

We all know Kerry has lied repeatedly about his Vietnam experiences. And he is probably lying at least 25% right now, in any speech that he gives.

The PROBLEM is that only a small fraction of the American public actually cares. And the Media support him all the way.

Arguing with liberals and democrats by wielding truth as your weapon is much like trying to persuade Nazis or Islamists that Jews are human -- it's just plain impossible.

Logic and facts have no impact on Kerry or his supporters. I only pray that we can outvote them in November!

123 Promethea  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:42:13pm

#17 chukdog . . .

nobody here thinks the story of the dog being catapulted from one boat to another as slightly unbelieveable? Could this whole deal get any more bizzare? how much longer can the MSM cover for this Twit?

Just started reading this thread, so you're probably long gone, but your comment hits the nail on the head.

Is not the REAL story the willingness of the mass media to defend this candidate, who is so obviously a second-rate do-nothing braggart?

I can't think of ANY other major candidate who was so poorly suited to be Chief Executive of this country. (OK, maybe James Buchanan was.) Why are the media working so hard to elect Kerry? They will suffer too, if he wins and then makes major mistakes.

Common sense seems to have flown out the mass media's windows. Do they have no desire for self-preservation? Anyone who gives it two minutes thought knows that a President has to work with Congress in order to pass laws. But he/she is also the one who controls the Armed Forces. A blowhard nutcase is hardly a suitable candidate for that particular position.

124 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:42:36pm

#102 Mr Pol --

But I think the spitting is the worst. The drool is worse than Hooch.

125 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:43:11pm

#103 the lgf kiddie table OMG!! NO WAY!!
This is crazy. I am too afraid to speculate. Plus I'm sitting here dizzy headed all trippin on this like its some kind of dream. MAN!!

...

And the timing !!! THATS IMPOSSIBLE !!! How can that be ?

...

126 Security Mom  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:43:34pm

Here's a link to Allah's photoshop of Kerry's dog story.

127 Mr Pol  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:45:54pm

#124 ibu guru

The worst part, if you're used to riding a horse, is their movement. After an hour or ss you wish you didn't feel your arse any more, a couple more hours and you need a week to heal...

128 the lgf kiddie table  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:46:18pm

LMAO! The timing: we were kind of mad that someone else beat us to it last time, justdanny, so we agreed to not let them beat us to it next time. So that explains that ;-)

129 My 2 Cents  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:46:50pm

Just a small correction. I said earlier (# 122) that:

"Logic and facts have no impact on Kerry or his supporters."

What I meant to say was:

"Logic, facts, history, honor, principles, and basic human decency have no impact whatsoever on Kerry or his supporters."

130 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:49:43pm

#110 Frank
I rode one in Egypt. And I rode an elephant in Thailand. (Elephants are better, albeit further from the ground.) Someone shot pics for each, and my Pop framed them, put one on each side of his dresser so they were the first things he saw each morning when he got up. I think he must have prayed for my safety alot. And now that he's on the next plane, I know he has to be watching out for me!

131 Security Mom  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:52:51pm

Kerry linked to Johnny Chung!

Secret FBI Documents Reveal Kerry Accepted Laundered Contributions (via instapundit)

132 Dashing Dasher  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:53:00pm

You have to admit - any question you asked this guy - goes to his 4 months of service in Vietnam!

Have you ever eaten a Fluffer Nutter Sandwhich...
"My first Fluffer Nutter was aboard the cargo plane that took me to my destiny in Vietnam"

First BJ...
"My first BJ was ..."

First HomoErotic Experience...
"Funny you should ask..."


PS...
#12...
Dog and Pony Show... Just add Pony!
ROFLOL!

133 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:55:33pm

#128 the lgf kiddie table

Man this is crazy. I so so so seriously need a nap right now. The entire world has just shrunk to the size of this little room and if I keep trying to put my head around this Im going to freak exactly the hell out.

I'm going to go sit on the porch for a minute and smoke a cigarette. Its raining but I have this wild feeling that I might not get wet...

If you all want, you can twinkle the stars a little while I'm out there to say hello...

(I mean I know Ive had the head seat at the kiddie table for a seeming very long time now, but this is crazy. There is honestly no way I can thank you all enough, simply no way. Humbled doesnt even touch it.)

134 adie  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 3:58:23pm

#5 Don - I've been wondering how Kerry must have felt about his parents shipping him off to at least 3 boarding schools. Perhaps that's where all the desperate non-stop lies began. Not that it forgives him, but I've wondered about it since first reading his Wikipedia bio.

Speaking of which, is anyone updating wikipedia?

Wikipedia-Kerry Bio

Surely it needs a write-up about what happened to the dog.

135 Promethea  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:00:59pm

#54 CrusaderGirl . . .

Man, that was one crowded boat. Guns, CIA agents, a crew, SF commandos, Navy Seals, and a barking, flying dog.

Great description! Hope some cartoonist picks it up.

136 jrdroll  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:02:10pm

#132

Dog and Pony Show... Just add Pony!


I think that's Edwards' role.

137 foreign devil  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:03:54pm

I do remember hearing something in my travels through Kerry's many stories of a dog but at the time I was too busy to follow it up and certainly the only time he had a mine blow under him was the day he rescued Rassmann.

So, like how many times was he blown up? Does John O'Neill remember a dog named VC? Or the other vets?

His story has gone right into the Twilight Zone.

138 the lgf kiddie table  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:04:13pm

justdanny, LOL! Take your cigarette, but probably wear a poncho or stand under something, because I'm pretty sure we don't control the weather. Yet :-)

139 J.D.  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:05:29pm
...• The Communist Chinese regime: At an SFRC hearing on June 27, 2001, Mr. Kerry got into a strange debate with Sen. Jesse Helms, North Carolina Republican, over whether China has a "communist government." Mr. Kerry held that it does not have a "communist government" anymore, a position no serious China scholar would support.
He further argued the dictatorial regimes of East Asia calling themselves "communist" do so "more for historical purposes" and do not represent "any kind of current reality." Perhaps the most brilliant account of the present depredations by the Chinese Communist Party against the people of China is found in an essay by Princeton Professor Perry Link in the current issue of China Rights Forum. Professor Link likens China today to "a fetid swamp of suppression and lies."
• Chinese espionage: In 1998 I reported ("Year of the Rat," Regnery), and this year NBC News confirmed, Mr. Kerry's unfortunate relationship with Chinese military intelligence. During the 1996 election cycle, Chinagate figure Johnny Chung made a $10,000 contribution to Mr. Kerry's campaign in return for arranging a high-level meeting at the Securities and Exchange Commission. The beneficiary of Mr. Kerry's assistance was Chinese military spy Lt. Col. Liu Chao-ying. NBC has a photograph of the Communist Chinese espionage agent with Mr. Kerry, taken in his office.
• China's role in proliferation: Recently, Mr. Kerry told the press that if he became president, Communist China would become the "principal partner" in his antiproliferation efforts. This conveniently ignores Beijing's role as the world principal proliferator of WMDs, something Mr. Kerry should know, given his attendance at highly classified briefings. Without China's illicit arms sales and WMD technology transfers, neither North Korea nor Iran would be significantly threats to anyone. When Libya turned over its secret nuclear weapons plans earlier this year, American specialists were astonished to discover they were written in Chinese.
• Taiwan: Barely a day goes by that Communist China does not issue another threat against Taiwan. This year's Pentagon report on Chinese army power has a new section on Taiwan that can only be described as "grim." Many Western observers of the People's Liberation Army believe January 2005 will begin a dangerous period in East Asia as the military balance in the Taiwan Strait tilts to the communists. President Bush's response to these threats has been to declare the United States would do "whatever it takes" to help defend Taiwan. Not only has Mr. Kerry never made a statement of comparable forcefulness in defense of Taiwan, the draft of the Democratic Party Platform under Mr. Kerry fails to indicate support for U.S. law — the Taiwan Relations Act. Al Gore's DNC platform had such support in 2000. Further, on Jan. 6, 2004, Mr. Kerry declared that the way to resolve the cross-straits tension is to "push" Taiwan to accept the communists' "One country, two systems" proposal. One only has to ask the Tibetans and the people of Hong Kong what it's really like under "One country, two systems." ...


Wrong on China . . . and Taiwan

140 goldsmith  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:06:33pm

#138


OK, enough! What the hell are you and justdanny talking about?! It's killing us who aren't in the "In" crowd!

141 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:09:04pm

the lgf kiddie table,

I really hope this doesnt mean you all expect or think I'm going to start acting right. Cause I'm not. Sure I may so greatful that I'm actually dizzy with gratitude, but there is no way I'm going to start acting right. I won't do it. I mean I'll go USB cable direct to wall outlet and watch this Aptiva do a Hendrix Startocaster on lighter fluid cook sizzle before I'll ever agree to act right.

?

142 adie  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:09:37pm

#22 brianstien - OMGosh, how sweet. An opportunity for our Vietnam veterans to pull a DNC. That is, once Kerry apologizes, swift vets can tell him it's "too little too late."

Bush's apology: Too little, too late? - CNN.com 2/28/2000

Daschle: Bush AIDS spending 'too little too late' - CNN June 21, 2002

Bush delivers too little too late - BBC 9 July, 2002

Bush assails anti-Kerry ad; Democrats say 'too little, too late' - Boston Globe - David Espo, AP 8/23/2004

~tired of copying links, though I googled 25,400 more~

143 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:10:07pm

# 135 Prom

J. COX & A. FORKUM!

PAGING MESSRS. COX & FORKUM!!! STAT!!

144 the lgf kiddie table  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:10:12pm

Anyway, I'm not talking to you any more, because you might guess who I am. So, we love you, and we're honored to honor you, and that's all we wrote. See you at Charles' place!

145 Iron Fist[deleted]  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:10:52pm
146 newscaper  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:11:26pm
Said Mr. Kerry: ”It turns out VC was catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed, confused but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol.“

Don't know if anybody mentioned this specifically above but...

I suppose this shows that maybe those guys in the other boats WERE close enough to know what Kerry was up to, huh?

147 the lgf kiddie table  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:11:43pm

You can act however you want, justdanny, LOL! In fact, please be more like yourself, thank you :-) and goldsmith, mind your own damn beeswax :-)

148 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:12:00pm

But I do promise to focus more on my spelling. ;)

149 FrankNH  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:12:15pm

If anybody has access to FOX, you should tune in Hannity.
Ollie North said, "Kerry shouldn't be allow to be a guard at abu Graib".
Hannity and Bob Beckel just finished up the segment with a shouting match.
Beckel tried to pull a Hannity on Hannity with a "yes" or "no" question. Hannity wouldn't bite. As Beckel was shouting, Hannity said, "This isn't Crossfire".
You gotta love it.

150 newscaper  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:13:54pm

Why doesn't pull a Mark Furman on Kerry and dredge up how he probably used the word "gook" a lot way back when?

151 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:14:08pm

# 117 Ed

Last week reaganite (IIRC) excavated the thread -- I think one has to search the contents for "Minifraud" (or perhaps "Kiowa" would work!)

152 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:18:12pm

#151 Buckaroo
Keyword: "Minipud"...

153 Throbert McGee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:19:25pm
#71 Ed Moran:
We kept a pet African Cobra aboard the USS Chuck Wagon.

It was a real pissah when he bit the XO during a command inspection, and they had to amputate his leg at the knee to save his life.

Oh, you are so totally full of shit, Ed. Everyone knows snakes don't have knees, or legs for that matter.

/smug because nothing gets by me

P.S. I hope the cobra got better all the same, though.

154 Cam  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:21:12pm

#152 reaganite:

Keyword: "Minipud"...

LOL. Ah memories. Misty water-coloured memories. They light the corners of my mind...

;-)

155 justdanny  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:22:34pm

Okay, Okay, Okay,

goldsmith,

Lets just say I got a big raise for my work on the inner perimeter security management detail at the new top secret need to know only underground headquarters in Dulce New Mexico where Charles O'Lord of thy Super Lizards really presides over his alien super race of ZOG minions. And leave it at that. Because if I say anymore, I will have to harm you about the head and shoulders.

Long live the LGF kiddie table !!

156 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:23:19pm

# 152 reag

**That** was it! I doubt I'll ever forget that now!
:-)

157 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:23:35pm

#131 Security Mom --

My sources have been telling me for several years that PRC was heavily involved in funding Clinton-Gore (and others) in 1996 and subsequently. Their first quid pro quo was Most Favored Nation status -- which they got. Note how their exports to the U.S. have skyrocketed since -- more than quintupled.

I've been looking for this for quite awhile, but am certain this from Judicial Watch is just the tip of the iceberg. Johnnie Chung was not their only conduit; don't forget that "Buddhist Temple" to which Gore (partially) returned campaign contributions. And Clinton, Gore & Kerry were not the only recipients of PRC largesse. There's more to come out on both contributors and recipients (three more Senators were recipients).

158 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:24:53pm

# 153 Throbert

Needed a drink-spew warning there mister!!!
Trying to catch breath

159 Rose  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:25:37pm

Bush and I Were LieutenantsBush
By Col. William Campenni
The Washington Times | August 25, 2004
Read on [Link: www.frontpagemagazine.com...]
well worth while I hope it gets seen on mainstream to counteract all this negative press on Mr Bush.

We only hear the negative on Bush here in OZ and on Kerry ???silence-almost!!

Bless you all -keep up the fight

160 Buckaroo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:26:12pm

# 157 ibu

Care to name the three Sens.? (does one of them regularly confuse OBL with Kindercare?)

161 WarBicycle  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:28:17pm

Bush should continue keeping his mouth shut and let Kerry hang himself with his wild stories.

162 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:29:51pm

#154 Cam
Just popped in after fixing another problem with my newest 'puter. Who would have guessed that I knew more than the tech support of my mother board's builders! 63 minutes and they gave me an idea, which worked. Tomorrow they are going to get back with me!
Anyway, I popped in at the right moment!

#156 Buckaroo

**That** was it! I doubt I'll ever forget that now!

After the last request it took me an hour or so to remember! As you said, I doubt I'll forget again...

163 dcbatlle  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:35:20pm

This guy lives in a dream world.

164 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:40:43pm

#160 buckaroo --

I have names of two of the three; I can say one is no longer in office. My sources are very good at getting info to me, but we do not have a safe means for transmitting "hard copy," so to speak. I would never release names without such hard evidence - just in case of a mistake or mistransmission of the info. Yes, it is Deep Throat-ish -- I'm a former foreign correspondent & very cautious.

But I'm also on the lookout for corroborating info! I am quite certain there is serious dirt to come out on Kerry.

165 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:40:44pm

The real question: Did he re-enact the incident the next day for the camera with the same dog?

166 Abu Maven  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:41:00pm

Via Hugh Hewiit:

I also caught up with Steve Gardner on today's program, a Swift Boat vet who served from November, 1968 to January 23, 1969 on Kerry's Swift Boat 44. I asked him about Kerry's tale of "VC --combat dog:"

HH: "Steve, was there a dog named VC on your boat?"

SG: ""Buddy, to the best of my knowledge (laughing), I never saw any dog at any time on the 44 boat."

HH: "Is it possible that it was on the other boat."

SG: "Oh, a distinct possibility (laughing)."

HH: "In the time that you were on the swift boats --totally-- did any of the swift boats have a dog?"

SG: "Never saw one, ever."

HH: "Would it have been a good idea to have a dogf on the swift boats?"

SG: "Not likely."

HH: "Why not?"

SG: "Because there was just too much action going on. We had hot brass rolling around there any time we were in a firefight. He would have got beat up."

HH: "Is this the first time you have ever heard of the dog story?"

SG: "It sure is."

Look. It is possible that Kerry had a dog named VC after Gardner left Kerry's command. And it is possible that VC the combat dog got blwon off the boat when the boat hit a mine --even though there's no rference to the mine that would fit the occasion. And just because many of my listeners have e-mailed me to note that there was a dog on Martin Sheen's boat in Apocalpyse Now doesn't mean that Kerry "borrowed" the dog from the movie.

[Link: www.hughhewitt.com...]

167 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:42:06pm

What kind of an idiot would be a soldier in Vietnam and name a dog "VC". That's like a VV naming his cat "Charlie" or his hamster "Ho".

168 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:46:37pm

#167 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

What kind of an idiot would be a soldier in Vietnam and name a dog "VC".

Look, I'm not defending Lurch, but in DS-1 we had a dog that ran around we named Hadji. The story from a real combat vet would be believable.

169 Cam  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:47:09pm

#162 reaganite:

Nice! So now you know what to do when you retire from the service.

Myself, I'm working on the "Freedom 95" plan...

170 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:50:09pm

#169 Cam

Nice! So now you know what to do when you retire from the service.

Hell no! I'm going to do the job the military trained me for, but for a hell of a lot more money! (call me a mercenary!)

171 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:50:24pm

Hee hee, Charles broke the thread :-)

172 Cam  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:53:20pm

#170 reaganite:

call me a mercenary

Mercenary!

Seriously, is there a lot of demand for ordnance disposal in the private sector?

173 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:56:14pm

#168 reaganite

Okay, well, I'll trust your word on it.

The story from a real combat vet would be believable.

And I'll believe it when I hear it from a real combat vet ;)

174 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 4:57:50pm

#172 Cam

Seriously, is there a lot of demand for ordnance disposal in the private sector?

I have skills you might be amazed at that the military has taught me. Without touching another piece of ordnance I have job offers. With just my EOD skills, I have two sitting in my inbox. The "low" one is 180K.

175 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:00:01pm

#173 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

And I'll believe it when I hear it from a real combat vet ;)

How many of my friends do you want to hear from?

176 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:02:06pm

#139 jd --

Add Nepal to the list. PRC infiltrators and funding are the "Maoists" behind the assassinations of royal family members and all the rest of the hoo-haa going on there. It got so bad by last winter that Save the Children had to pull out its operations and staff from more than half the country.

China is "pulling a Tibet" in Nepal, and throughout the Himalayas, en route to Kashmir, India, Burma, Laos.

I've said on other threads, and feel obliged to repeat, that the U.S. faces three grave enemies:
1. Islam
2. Mexico
3. China

2005 will be a sorely trying year, and there is no way Kerry can take the heat.

177 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:03:41pm

153 Throbert

The site that fact checks your ass.

178 ibu guru  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:03:49pm

Alas, I must go -- Degas on PBS.

179 foreign devil  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:07:13pm

#131 Security Mom:

I guess that's when John Kerry was here:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

"...The photo at right was displayed on the website of Boston Capital & Technology and shows Senator John Kerry on an outsourcing trade mission he led to China. The BCT website, as of this posting, has been removed from the internet. We've captured as much of the website as we could, but some images now appear as broken links. Captured on our hard drive, however, is the picture from the BCT website showing Senator John Kerry at a banquet in Beijing China during the outsourcing trade mission..."

180 imtoast  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:07:52pm

reaganite:

I have a question I think you can answer. Do the SS go into the bathroom with Kerry and keep the lookers out while he relieves himself?

181 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:07:54pm

#175 reaganite

Lower the hackles, homes, I'm just taking a swipe at Lurch, okay?

182 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:11:17pm

#180 imtoast

Do the SS go into the bathroom with Kerry and keep the lookers out while he relieves himself?

They don't go in, they do keep everyone else out.

#181 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Lower the hackles, homes, I'm just taking a swipe at Lurch, okay?

You read me wrong, no hackles were raised!

183 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:14:14pm

#182 reaganite

You read me wrong, no hackles were raised!

Oh, oops, sorry mate!

*reholsters sidearm*

184 reaganite  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:18:25pm

Night all, I have an early meeting.

185 Abu Maven  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:19:37pm

The story is totally unbelievable. Kerry claimed that no one on his boat realized the what happened to the dog and that a "frantic search" ensued for several minutes... until someone from another boat called and said, "hey, are you guys missing a dog?"

I mean, try to picture this... the dog being catapulted so far away that no one on Kerry's boat realizes what happened, but somehow it magically lands unhurt on another boat. Again, this second boat must've been really far away because, even after the explosion, no one on Kerry's boat realized what had happened or heard any barking.

C'mon. Is this as nuts as I think it is? Is this a prank? I can't figure out what's going on here.

186 Bernadette  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:23:31pm

Heard about this on Fox and Friends this morning and posted a comment on another thread earlier today.

This story makes me want to burst out into song:

Oh where, oh where has my little dog gone,
oh where, oh where can he be,
with his tail so short and his ears so long,
oh where, oh where can he be?

Oh where, oh where has my little dog gone,
almost blown to smithereens?
On the deck of a swift boat in Cambodia
with Three dog purple hearts and some fleas!!!

My apologies to dogs and music lovers everywhere.

187 foreign devil  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:33:45pm

#186 Bernadette:

Just don't give up your day job! ;)

188 Bernadette  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:34:31pm

What?

Was I off key?

189 jake  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:34:33pm

#159 Rose

From your link:

Bush and I Were Lieutenants
By Col. William Campenni
The Washington Times August 25, 2004

George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch...

This is an awesome find. All it takes is one guy to say, "Yeah, I served with Bush and he did his job competently and honorably " and then explain exactly why Bush was never "AWOL". By 1972, the war had already run down and the AF had an overabundance of pilots. They were happy to give time off to Reservists like Lt. Bush, who, after all, also had full-time careers. The AF knew where he was at all times, and they weren't giving him any special treatment.

Bookmark it, guys, because this whole "AWOL" crap is really starting to piss me off.

/channeling Cartman

190 piglet  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 5:47:58pm

Now far more likelyssics is what we learned in phyics
101, that if james bond ejects odd job straight up out of the astin anrtin and does not accelarate away the bad guy will go up and remain moving at the same speed and fall right back into the car.

[Link: www.clarksonlab.com...]

191 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:01:47pm

Sorry - posting more from Glenn:

OKAY, THIS HISTORY-INVENTION STUFF IS GETTING SCARY:


John Kerry speaking at a Martin Luther King day celebration in Virginia last year said, quote, "I remember well April 1968, I was serving in Vietnam. A place of violence. When the news reports brought home to me and my crew mates the violence back home and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of Dr. King." That date, of Dr. King's death, was April 4, 1968. According to kerry's website, it was not until November 17, 1968, that he reported for duty in Vietnam.

...
MY WORD THIS MAN CANNOT BE OUR LEADER. HE'S FREAKING NUTS. NO WONDER THE HOLLYPRICKS LOVE HIM. HE'S A FRAUD.

192 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:15:24pm

190


Au contraire, if James Bond is travelling in the Astin Martin at high speed, a fat Korean assasin wearing a suit and pork-pie hat will instantly start decelerating due to wind resistance.


Don't feel like doing the math, but I know that terminal velocity of humans is somewhere in the ballpark of 100 mph, so if Bond was going 100 mph, Oddjob would be decelerating (although his deccelaration would decrease with decreasing speed) at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2.


If we simplify (as all good petroleum engineers must, because every real world petroleum problem is too complicated to solve exactly, hence things like Euler's constant and other interesting approximations) if Oddjob flies up into the air for 1 second before gravity completely and momentarily reduces the vertical component of his velocity, his speed will already be about 10 m/s slower than the Astin-Martin, and he will fall far behind the car.


BTW, Oddjob was electrocuted anyway, so a discussion of Ohm's law, and Kirchoff's law would be more appropriate anyway.

193 Rugby the Rat  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:25:14pm
"My first Fluffer Nutter was aboard the cargo plane that took me to my destiny in Vietnam"

First BJ...

First HomoErotic Experience...

haha! notice that the anwser:

"My first Fluffer Nutter was aboard the cargo plane that took me to my destiny in Vietnam"

...works pretty good w/ all three questoins!!!

"When was the first time you had a peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich?"

"When did you get your first blowjob?"

"When was your first homoerotic experience?"

ps. hello i am rugby and i am sitting on the conputer desk with uncle bob and eating a peant butter and cornflake sammich! my favorite food!!! it is twice the fun do you know why?? Because after you eeat it you have to lick the penut butter off your mustache!! (dont worry ladies that is only **IF** you have a mustache?? which i do on account of the fact that i am BUTCH)

pps. well my 2nd favorite after snuflower seeds. also i like waffels & chickin liver & grapes & omalets & red cabbage & macaroni & carrot sticks & cheese & kiwifrut if you have any plz send c/o uncle bob??!

ppps. i am a rat!!

194 Dman  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:25:47pm

The story is no better than his embelishment of his story of flying an Israeli fighter jet Blue Angel style.

195 daNightman  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:52:02pm

I thought this tale sounded too much like an urban legend I heard about the catapaulted cat. Here's the legend retold on Snopes.com, with the second version being the relevent one.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/mishaps/flying.htm

196 Ckimoo  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:52:50pm

Damn, I spit my cereal all over the screen laughing!
This just gets deeper and deeper. Can't wait to see a Cox and Forkum on this one!

197 LtTw  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:53:16pm

I dunno from physics--gotta go with experience. That pup looks young (even if starved, probably under 6 months), so may have had soft bones, but I'm thinking the impact would easily match a car going 20 mph. I can personally testify that a pup that size doesn't survive a solid impact at that (relatively low) speed. :(

So now I owe a snappier post...

198 locutus  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 6:57:26pm

All I wanna know is...

How many purple hearts did the dog get?

199 urthshu  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 7:00:45pm

He also wrote in his bio that the hull of a swiftboat "wouldn't stop a BB shot from 1000 yards". Yet, now this mine & dog story. Goofball.

200 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 7:13:24pm

Rugby, LMAO! Good to see you, my rodent friend :-)

201 LtTw  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 7:21:47pm

Okay, Kiddies, Time for *Movie ReMake Magic*

With your fave Hooey-wooed gossip to the stars, Velma Frump!

Hellow, everyone! And here's our "Hot Gossip Winner of the Week"! It's the remake that's "remaking" the rounds yet a-GAIN (I'm exhausted!):

"Flipper and Lassie: Together at Last!"

A heartwarming story of a grandstanding wannabe who rips off the puppy some guys bought out of a local lunchbox...

Only the Hooey-wood egos will insist that the big box office draw gets top billing, right? So the good news is, Flipper gets low-billed to Vice Prez (which fits, because pathological lying is a vice, right?)

Meanwhile, which Edwards, the Faithful LiberaLLL Kompanion, thinks he's been cast as Tonto in a remake of "The Lone Stranger (and Stranger Yet!)", with Kerry starring as the heroic Masked Man -- or is it "Man of a Thousand Masks?"

I've seen the dailies, and they are a HOOT!

There's this one touching scene where Kerry runs out of silver slivers, so he melts down three purple hearts for ammo. But that scene got dumped on the cutting room floor, so they never really do explain that plot twist about the hearts. Sloppy editing! You never see the "Wizard of Oz" loose track of HIS hearts and medals!

BTW! Did you know that Silver and Scout were in Vietnam, too? (Yeah, that swiftboat ran on "horsepower"! Didn't it? Am I right? Of course, you KNOW I am!)

So now Edwards doesn't know if he's starring in a remake of "Dumbo" (for volunteering to campaign as Flipper's Veep/groupie), or if he's stumbled into a remake of "Dumb and Dumberer" -- which should be illegal in most states!

Anyways, I was just putting together a theater poster idea for the new Fin-Fur Flic, and I was cropping this pic of Flip with his little pal, Leakie. I could NOT believe my eyes! Back in the trees in the background, there he is plain as day: Bigfoot! What a great cameo appearance by the most credible character on the set!

And then I'm looking at the shadows in the water, because the lighting is wrong or something, there's this big lump that looks just like -- wait. Whoa! Wait. Just. A. Minute. It can't be -- it -- it is. It's NESSIE!

Can you be-LIEVE it? Flipper served (in Viet NAM!) with the Lock Ness Monster!! Sqa-weel! What a hero--what a patriot! (I mean the myth, not the man.)

Well, that's it for now, Kiddies. Don't forget to buy a copy of my new book, "Tours of Fantasy Warzones with the Stars"!

Toodles til the Popcorn Pops!

202 LtTw  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 7:26:30pm

#193 Rugby the Rat 8/25/2004 08:25PM PST

ppps. i am a rat!!

Cute!

So, Rugby, what distinguishes you from the entire Depo-cratic ticket, much of the liberaLLL news media, and Mikey "Mocumentary" Moore-or-Less?

(Besides your cuteness and the fact that your rat pellets can be used for fertilizer?)

LOL

203 gymnast  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 7:50:32pm

Kerry's campaign is looking more and more like a "Roadrunner" cartoon and Kerry's looking more and more like Wiley Cayote. Beep Beep.

204 radicalcentrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 8:02:50pm

My apologies for the lengthy comment.

I believe that one of the most important questions in this story is whether the dog's impact on the 2nd boat could have been survivable. The impact velocity is a physics problem, so I decided to try solving it. I'm not certain of my results, so I've included my derivation, to help others can verify the answer. Thus the length of this comment (results at the end).

Since we don't know the distance between the boats, I'm calculating impact velocity as a function of distance.

The dog's impact velocity will be the same as the dog's ejection velocity. Horizontal velocity is unaffected by being airborne (neglecting air resistance), and vertical velocity (in magnitude) is restored by gravity on the way down. So to find the impact velocity, we can calculate the required ejection velocity.

For a given launch velocity, the greatest flight distance is obtained if the launch angle is 45 degrees. For a given velocity V, we can separate this motion into a vertical (VY) and horizontal (VX) component. At this launch angle, VX = VY = V / sqrt(2). (The relationship to V is based on the pythagorean theorem.)

Let T be the time that the dog is airborne, and let X be the distance between the boats. Therefore, X = T * VX.

At departure, the dog has vertical velocity VY. During flight, gravity steadily slows the dog's upwards velocity until it reaches zero. The time for this to happen, TA (for "time to canine apogee"), is TA = VY / G. By symmetry, the dog will take an equal time to fall back to the Earth. (Since we're dealing with two boats, the altitude of launch and impact are the same.) Therefore, the total time of flight is T = 2 * VY / G.

Combining equations, we find X = 2 * VX * VY / G. We know VX = VY = V / sqrt(2). Therefore, X = V^2 / G. Solving for V, we find V = sqrt (X * G). Using metric units, G = 9.8 m/s^2. This reduces the equation to:

V [m/s] = sqrt (X [m] * 9.8 [m/s^2])

Solving this equation, and expressing the required ejection (and impact!) velocity in English units, we find:

10 yards 21 mph
20 yards 30 mph
30 yards 37 mph
40 yards 42 mph
50 yards 47 mph
60 yards 52 mph
70 yards 56 mph
80 yards 60 mph
90 yards 64 mph
100 yards 67 mph

We're getting up to freeway speeds!

And remember that this is the minimum impact velocity for covering this range between two boats. If the ejection angle was not 45 degrees, the impact velocity will be higher.

I don't know what kind of impact is survivable for a dog. Maybe there's a veterinarian here who knows. But imagine hitting a dog with a car at these speeds, and you have a sense of what this means for the dog.

205 evariste  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 8:08:28pm

#204 radicalcentrist: sheez. I wish I'd thought of that; thanks!

206 piglet  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 8:17:37pm
Don't feel like doing the math, but I know that terminal velocity of humans is somewhere in the ballpark of 100 mph, so if Bond was going 100 mph, Oddjob would be decelerating (although his deccelaration would decrease with decreasing speed) at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2.

Actually the terminal velocity of the averge man is about 180 miles an hour. For the average cat it is about 60, and cats who fall out windows above 3 stories go limp in a sky diver x and with their soft bones (cartilage?) cats actually often survive fall from over 3 stories better than falls of two stories.

Of course if Kerry made a very fast turn, and the dog was on the roof of the boat, the dog might have vectored sideways and landed on the deck of a nearby boat, say if kerry almost rammed the other boat and made a panic turn to avoid a collision.

207 Bruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 8:54:33pm

Look, the reality is that the dog survived being killed by the impact of landing on the 2nd boat because Jim Rasmussen broke the dogs fall ... and then Jim fell into the water. Both events are seared into John Kerrys mind.

And it lets every one off the hook. The Swift Vets don't remember the VC shooting at them and Kerry and Rasmussen remember VC shooting past them ...

Or something like that. :)

208 MIggie  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 9:28:51pm

#159 - Rose

Thanks for that link. It is important to know what the circumstances were when President Bush was in the Reserves and it is good to hear from someone who served with him.

209 Connecticut Yankee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 9:44:18pm

Ace of Spades has the definitive list of:

Top Ten Other John Kerry Super-Amazing Vietnam Pets

10. An adorable angora kitten codenamed "Spartan" skilled at demolitions & night-ops

9. Two ferrets named Kodo and Podo with whom Lieutenant "Dar" Kerry shares a telepathic bond

8. A cigar-smoking orang-utan named "Doc" who's fond of whiskey and cheating at cards

7. "Mr. Nibbles," a cowardly but clever horse who plays dead at the first sound of Cong gunfire

6. A superintelligent cat named "Sox" (short for "Socrates") who speaks with a crisp British accent and is a master of tactical planning

5. A couple of pandas named Ping and Pong who enjoy music, dancing, and cutting off the ears of their "kills" to make trophy-necklaces

4. "Johnny Thunder," a magical turtle capable of flying at twice the speed of sound

3. A loveable mutt named "Sneakers" who waterskis from the back of Lt. Kerry's swiftboat by day and solves spooky mysteries by night

2. A goldfish with a triple-black-belt in Karate nicknamed "Wet Li"

... and the Number One John Kerry Super-Amazing Vietnam Pet...

1. "Mr. Tickles," a kleptomaniacal, master-burglar gerbil that Lieutenant Kerry is always able to smuggle through customs owing to some special secret "happy hiding place" only they know about.

[Link: ace-o-spades.blogspot.com...]

210 Ann_Observer  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 9:55:05pm

Let's see. Saturday Night Live had

"Toonces, the cat who could drive".

Didn't those goofballs at SCTV have

"VC, the dog who blowed up real good"?

211 jaxinman  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 10:00:44pm

Not that the story is believable (as if there is any Kerry story that is), but "pets" are not that uncommon in a combat zone.

We kept a small dog in our bunkers in Dak To for awhile. I seem to recall we called him "Charlie", but my memory is faded. We just kept him around and fed him scraps and played with him. He wasn't much bigger than Kerry's "VC". Sadly, he came down with what someone somehow diagnosed as distemper and we had to put him away. We did it "honorably" in our sense. Took him out to the perimeter and shot him with a "grease gun". Then buried him with "honors"... kind of sad actually.

Someone also had a pet monkey at the camp, and a pet lizard,...

I don't know if it made much sense to take such a pet on a swiftboat mission. Seems a little looney to me since they might get underfoot, but then again I never served on a swiftboat.

It also seems a bit farfetched to believe that the pup was blown off the boat onto another, but who knows. I suppose it could happen.

From the picture of the pup I find it hard to believe that dog was about to be eaten by the vietnamese. I'm not much into vietnamese canine cuisine, but it would seem to me that it would be fattened up a bit before slaughter?
Does anyone know the actual custom? Do they supposedly eat small pups, or more mature canines?

Bottom line: As farfetched as this sounds, I don't think one could make a big issue out of it even considering the source. There is far to much else to argue.

Thank you for your support.

212 applesweet  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 10:05:07pm

More concise timelines of Kerry's service and dates of action here.

Still More Inconsistencies Between Kerry's Viet Nam Narratives

[Link: www.captainsquartersblog.com...]

213 Throbert McGee  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 10:09:47pm
4. "Johnny Thunder," a magical turtle capable of flying at twice the speed of sound

Anyone else start playing MST3K "Gamera" clips in your mental a/v center after you read this?

Ga-me-ra!
Ga-me-ra!

Gamera is really sweet
He is full of turtle meat
We all love you, Ga-me-ra!

Hirohito gamera!
Mitsubishi gamera!
Arigato, ga-me-ra!

214 Rugby the Rat  Wed, Aug 25, 2004 11:04:26pm
So, Rugby, what distinguishes you from the entire Depo-cratic ticket, much of the liberaLLL news media, and Mikey "Mocumentary" Moore-or-Less?

hello primate! iam rugby and i am a rat!! to answer your qeustions: number one, i am SMRATER!!! can Sen. JOhn Kererry figure out how to go up a ladder through a cereal box and down a tunnle to get a cookie??!? doubtful!!!

plus i am sleek & agile. betwn me and michael moore, guess which one can lick his own genitals (to clean them i mean not for pervert reasons)??

but the main thing that disstinqwishes me from the Deomocrats is that I AM EVEN PRETTIER TAHN JOHN EDWRADS!!!

but do not take my wrod for it. here is a NEW PICTURE that uncle bob took of me when we wnet for a walk yesterday!! as you can see i am EXTEREMELY PRETTY!!! like a rare torpical flower!!

but i like tish picture even more!! it is me but uncle bob photoshopped it so i look S-C-A-R-Y!! (BUT! in real life i am nice and gentle and like to kiss my primate friends ♥ ♥ ♥) it would be a good advretising poster if hollywood made a movie called SATAN IS COMIGN TO BITE YOU!!! or somethng like that.

215 elevenbravo1969  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 12:00:47am

My gaze is ever directed upwards to the heights of whopperdom re: the Kerry/dog story.

216 evariste  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 1:29:56am

Rugby, awww. Those are just adorable.

217 Horsesoldier  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 4:12:50am

Never mind the election, let’s go straight to John Kerry: The Movie!
Speeding boats
Blazing Fire Fights
Daring Rescues
Secret Missions
Lucky Hats
Lovable Mascots

All this And Flying Dogs Too!

The critics say BRING. IT. ON!

218 NuclearTinkerbell  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 6:23:29am

#204 radicalcentrist

I don't know what kind of impact is survivable for a dog. Maybe there's a veterinarian here who knows. But imagine hitting a dog with a car at these speeds, and you have a sense of what this means for the dog.

Puppies tend to 'bounce' and rarely suffer broken bones. Epiphyseal growth plates get damaged and joints are dislocated more often than even green-stick fractures occur. Puppies tend to walk away from severe traumas if their heads aren't involved, only to die a few hours later from internal bleeding.

Maybe someone should have asked him a follow up question, like, "Whatever happened to the puppy? Did you arrange to bring him home with you after your tour or did you toss him into the Mekong after he died?"
:(

219 LtTw  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 7:49:38am

#218 NuclearTinkerbell

...only to die a few hours later from internal bleeding.

Maybe someone should have asked him a follow up question, like, "Whatever happened to the puppy? Did you arrange to bring him home with you after your tour or did you toss him into the Mekong after he died?"
:(


Yerp. You 'n moi thinkin' alike. Ruptured spleens are fatal within hours, and common in impact injuries, even with older dogs. (Dogs are not built with kitty-type "spring mechanisms."

I am, unfortunately, a lay expert on injured puppies, kitties, duckies, goaties, etc. Done splints, CPR, and triage. :(

Had some *real* twisted folks move in down the road aways in the country. I moved away. My neighbor moved her big, husky son into the vacancy. (Hope that helped...) Don't get me started on "law enfarcement."

As for VC, she was at a "tender puppy" stage, so could easily have been on a menu. Note that Kerry didn't commit any resources to rescuing her--but she made a good photo op, if you ignore her expression and body language in relation to the supposed master...

I'd guess she outgrew "cute" pretty quickly - and increased her piddle output with growth. Much too much trouble to export to the US, and unlikely to get any shots. Once they quit nursing, distemper is quick, if dirty. Been a lot of years now, anyway. May she be remembered fondly.

220 LtTw  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 8:01:26am

#214 Rugby the Rat

hellow, rubgy! I am LightTower and I am a human! I really liked your smrat answers. I think you can run for persident better than Kerry. (You sure can run up ladders bettre than he can!)

I liked your picture. You have pretty white fir, and I like pnik eyes and noses, too. Tell Unlce Bob to give you a snack form me.

You have a good Web site, too. I hope you win the bolg contest!

Your friend, LtTw. (But don't come see me. I have a kat. I think she woudl like you *too* much!)

221 LtTw  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 8:05:56am

#211 jaxinman

My condolences about your pup. You guys did the right thing. Distemper gives several distinctive symptoms, and is tough to beat in the USA, even now. I'm proud you were strong enough to send your tyke on into peace.

222 LtTw  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 8:09:54am

#217 Horsesoldier

Dunno--Mad Magazine did "A Crock of Blip" when the original first came out--think we need another remake?

Maybe I'm just partial to "Flipper and Lassie: Together at Last" (#201)

#204 radicalcentrist -- Thanks for the estimates!

#209 Connecticut Yankee -- *Snort*! (Wipes monitor) LOL

223 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 9:12:07am

I'm waiting for the plush, stuffed version to be available from MoveOn.org.

I can see it now. You squeeze its paw, and it says clever things like:

"Bring.It.On!"

"Fire up another joint, man!"

"Are we in Cambodia yet?"

"Cleland, you idiot! Don't pick up that grenade!"

"That Jane Fonda is groovy, man!"

"Hey Kerry, watch where you're pointing that grenade launcher!"

224 squeak51  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 10:12:44am

#30 - I've been thinking the same thing about Edwards!!
#80 - It was JFnK's biting his bottom lip that made me wonder where VC's paws (sharp nails) were placed. VC is standing like she's about to slide and tumble off.

225 piglet  Thu, Aug 26, 2004 11:28:10am
Don't feel like doing the math, but I know that terminal velocity of humans is somewhere in the ballpark of 100 mph, so if Bond was going 100 mph, Oddjob would be decelerating (although his deccelaration would decrease with decreasing speed) at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2.


If we simplify (as all good petroleum engineers must, because every real world petroleum problem is too complicated to solve exactly, hence things like Euler's constant and other interesting approximations) if Oddjob flies up into the air for 1 second before gravity completely and momentarily reduces the vertical component of his velocity, his speed will already be about 10 m/s slower than the Astin-Martin, and he will fall far behind the car.

Not my field but, Motion up is independent of motion forward. Odd Jobs great mass would tend to continue forward, yes he has greater drag coeffiecent than an Astin Martin, but would the drag be great enough to slow down his enourmous mass.


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