You go boy!

Well, yeah, but ... uhh ... Bush was AWOL!!!

Slam dunk

Your bona fides Trump Rather's bona fides any day.

Frances update: My house is only missing a few shingles and some of the paint on the north side of my house was ripped right off. Lots of trees down on my road, but for being hit by the south end of Frances eyewall (my house is on the border of Jupiter and Juno Beach), we didn't get much damage at all.

Kerry is toast

(Sorry for the double post!)

All Rovian-Halliburton lies, Charles.

Anyway, do you have an idea of today's traffic?

So there!

Anymore SHTOOPID questions?

Who forged this stuff, and when does the investigation begin? This is both a civil and a criminal issue.

I do wonder about CBS's document havign the numerals with varying heights.

Times New Roman in Word does *not* do that.

It's possible there was some cutting and pasting going on that used elements from an authentic document.

But font monkey business plus all the oddness about deviations form military usage do provide a lot of circumstantial doubts.

just watched paula z on cnn and they're treating the documents as gospel.

I REALLY hope all these "medians" get thoroughly shaken up.

Is that a can of whoop ass that I just heard?

Bravo, Charles!!!

Knocking CBS on it's ass has gotta be satisfyin'!!!

"Best of the Web", are you listening???

Traffic today is well over 100,000 unique visitors. I'm estimating 3-4 times our usual traffic.

Charles:

Uh, I understood the bit about typesetting. As for the rest of it, could you speak more slowly. Me not so bright.

;-)

No wonder I was having issues with LGF today.

Yadda, Yadda, Charles, but I heard Rather say he's gonna' kick your A in Pong.

Charles, I respect your expertise!

Don't expect any epiphanies from the libbies. They seem to ignore facts pretty consistently.

Thank you for your insights.
My liberal friends have been pounding me with Bush is in deep shit now all day.
Wonderful to have a defence.

I saw a note on [Link: www.powerlineblog.com...] (see Update 10) that the words were kerned. Check it out. To me, that proves forgery beyond any doubt whatsoever.

Not just you, Charles. As I posted in the previous thread, Instapundit is reporting that the Weekly Standard has put the documents before at least four forensic experts. One quote:

So can we say with absolute certainty that the documents were forged? Not yet. Xavier University's Polt, in an email, offers two possible scenarios. "Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents (which may have been handwritten or typed on a typewriter), or they are crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

Now, now, let's not be confused by all these facts.

Bush Lied And People Died. Michael Moore made a film about this which proves it, albeit...not with any actual facts - but nevertheless!

BTW, I'm still waiting for something to pop up about the Beslan school massacre being orchestated and executed by agents of the Mossad.

Y'know, like the Madrid bombings, the Bali bombs and 9/11.

One of the FARKers asked:

Wow, the New York Times, LA Times, CNN, Chicago Tribune, and Washington Post are the biased liberal media, but one random guy on a blog is worth listening to.

Well if he knows what he's talking about and has got the right answer while all those other places don't, then yeah, he's worth listening to.

Its poor logic on the doubters part, anyway.

Paul Krugman is an economist, yet I wouldnt trust his judgement on anything pertaining to economic policy.

Even if Charles werent an expert, you don't have to be an expert to be right.

I’ve been involved with desktop publishing software and scalable software fonts ... ever since their inception

Well, no. Our Hypertext and Fress systems at Brown were desktop publishing, albeit on a room-sized desktop, as was Doug Englebart's AHI system (featuring the very first mouse). IBM's commercial product Text/360 had scalable fonts. All in the late 60's. Wang word processing came along in the early 70's. It sounds like you were a good decade later than that, and quite a bit later than the Bush memos.

The Wang is the early word processor I was referring to.

Amendment -- not quite since their inception! But for long enough, and with enough background knowledge, to have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.

OT: Dog shoots man in self-defense (charges filed against man)

I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

That's nothing.

Crown Prince Abdullah said he's 99.5% sure the documents were forged by Zionists.

to 24 -- One man plus the truth makes a majority. Emerson?

# 29 SCJ

So he's 4.5% more sure than usual ...
:-)

# 30 levi

"One man with courage makes a majority" -- Andrew Jackson

Did anyone notice the Scrappleface report that there's more to this story?

1972 Email Casts Doubt on Bush Guard Service
(2004-09-09) -- CBS reporter Dan Rather today released the text of a recently discovered email from then-Lt. George W. Bush's Air National Guard commanding officer which casts more doubt upon the military service of the man who would become the 43rd President of the United States.
The revelation of the email comes just hours after questions were raised about the authenticity of typewritten memos from the same officer, shown yesterday by Mr. Rather on 60 Minutes.
According to the previously unseen email message sent in May 1972 by squadron commander Jerry Killian, Lt. Bush phoned Col. Killian because "his internet connection was on the fritz and he couldn't IM me."

Copy of post to original thread:

Just wanted to add a little graphic boost to the illustration. Thanks for having such good radar for the big time fakers with small berries in execution.

Bush Memo Fake

Charles I think you are acutally having an effect on history in the making. Pretty dang cool.

Look at the F in File and the J in SUBJECT at the top of the sample you displayed. Zoom in 400% to see it clearly.

The suspicions are natural and may be true. I don't know what device in 1972 (or today!) would have turned out anything even this close to modern Times New Roman, but don't tell me there are not differences.

I'm no ace typographer myself, and I don't have anything but your posted .gif's to look at, but I've spent enough time with font files and Windows font APIs and bezier curves trying to turn one font into another or modifying letters for logos, that I at least know where to look, and there ARE differences that point towards a cloth-ribbon typewriter. This can be faked into a decorative font, and maybe it has been, based on Times New Roman, but that would make the fake contemporary.

Maybe it was faked but never used in 2000 for the previous election???

(#31) Buckaroo

Did I give Abdullah a percentage upgrade?

Whoops. ;-)

That was my first post on LGF today - swamped at the office.

So, I'm hearing this rumor about some forged records. Anyone know anything?

/kidding.

At any rate, T-15 minutes to NFL '04 Kick Off!

Charles, for those of us who are not knowledgable about these things, could you please explain what kerning is? Thanks in advance.

This whole thing is just phenomenal. Not to mention educational (let's just say I thought I knew a little bit about fonts, before today).

As for the Farker's comment, that's pretty typical - but it's ironic. Fark doesn't provide alternate commentary on the news, but it does provide an alternative news service. You'd think the people reading it would be a bit more open to the idea that one man with a computer can take on the MSM, given that one man with a computer started Fark as an alternative way to discovering all the news that's out there.

But no, most of the Farkers are knee-jerk left-wingers, and they're convinced that Bush and Ashcroft are out to stick them all in an Iraqi prison somewhere. Sad but true. I can only read the comments on the non-political posts, lest my blood pressure go too high.

This is beautiful... maybe the official "coming out" of the blog as a legitimate, nay, SUPERIOR news disseminating medium.

Charles, kudos to you for your always excellent site and for the nifty sleuth work on this.

4 more, baby.

Snap!

That hit so hard, it almost hurt me. I like it.

# 38 SCJ

GO INDY!

Charles, do you have a Wang?

#36 itellu3times

Please. It's painfully easy to distort by repeated copying, scanning, faxing.

In fact, 2 or 3 iterations is enough to do the damage.

Cam,

Me not so bright.

No true. Cam bright like sun.

ummm... yup, I think I believe you!! (Not that I didn't before) :) The line up was enough evidence for me that the thing was a fake.

Seriously, the BIG question is did anyone from the Kerry campaign assist with the forgery.

If W's campaign staff forged documents about Kerry, we'd be looking at another Watergate. But since Kerry is a Democrat, I predict the left-wing media will bury this Kerry scandal on page B-128 of the New York Times, beneath some article listing local spelling bee results.

Glad LGF is here to give us the news!

Look at the PowerLine update #13 -- bad luck for CBS. An authentic memo from the same time period has the 1970's look we all know so well. The forged signature is so obviously wrong that any inquiry would have proven the CBS document false.

The MSM has crucified itself again. Fact-checking is only done on the Internet.

Fark political threads are a fucking joke.

OT

Left shows their true colors to the military

[Link: www.nbc5i.com...]

Pwned.

#47 Geepers:

Blush. Ah, you rock.

:-)

# 43 A I

When it rains, it pours!!

OT -

ps - damn Charles...you must have one of them there super-sized brains :-)

OK, back to my OT and I have cursed enough today, so feel free to pick up the slack for me -
Vigil Turns Hostile Toward Family Of Killed Soldier

DALLAS -- A candlelight vigil took place Wednesday night to remember U.S. war dead in Iraq during the week of the 1,000th casualty. One North Texas family, whose relative -- Chad Drake -- was killed outside Baghdad Monday, was among the mourners at Dallas City Hall Plaza.

The vigil, though, turned abrasive toward the family members, according to a family friend. The friend sent an e-mail message to NBC 5 News that described the treatment some vigil attendees directed at the family.

Drake's mother was "harassed and yelled at, booed and hissed, told her son died for nothing," the message read.

Drake's mother reportedly left the event in tears.

The family attended the vigil because they thought it was meant to honor U.S. casualties. The event was organized by the Dallas Peace Center, which opposes the war.

Of course it was organized by a "Peace" center. Do you think anyone else could be this fu*king heartless !?!

John Kerry typed while Dan Rather hyped.

/vrwc

#45 Lawrence Schmerel

Charles, do you have a Wang?

Damn, Lawrence, isn't that a little personal?

EE: "Kerning" is adjusting the space between characters, usually to bring two characters closer together to avoid awkward spacing and improve the text's visual appeal and readability. Letter combinations that benefit from kerning include, for example, WA and AT.

Another good example is right here at LGF. If you look at the LGF logo at the top of the page, the words "little green footballs" are very tightly kerned.

# 54 ev

wow -- it took 5 threads before it appeared!
:-)

From Jonah over at NRO. (Scroll down).

From a reader (I've gotten many like it):

We still have an IBM selectric in the office. I powered it up and typed at bit. The Letter Gothic ball has no smaller superscript "th". Interestingly, the repairman's sticker and phone number was on the machine. I called, just now. He was working on one when I spoke to him. He said positively, no ball he has ever seen has had a "th" together. He said, too, that it can't work as there are no keys on the typewriter with a "th". I suggested the 1/4 or 1/2 (which is available) could have been a substitute key if the ball had a "th" or "st", he said no. He mentioned that NASA approached him, years ago, to see about symbology (math symbols etc.) balls that could work. He couldn't help them with that.

And just last week CBS broke the leaked and bogus spy for Israel story. They should be embarrased about all this but I'm sure they aren't.

muah beat RWC

by 10 seconds :)))

Austin

Charles, do you have a Wang?

Dude, don't disrespect the bing top lizard. :-P

.45 Lawrence Schmerel:

Charles, do you have a Wang?

Dude, obviously, or else it would be Charlene

Sheesh.

Lord, I looves my infantile humour...

;-)

"60 Minutes is toast."

Power Line

So when will 60 Minutes be buttered?

test

(#57) RWC

I've seen the references to the DC meetup this weekend - can you link to a post with the skinny?

I might be going out of town - but if the trip falls through, I will meet you guys.

By the way, I agree with the above poster...Today represents the day that Blog's "come out". Charles, today you're the prom king and no mistake. Anyone who discounts the significance of blogs now aparently wasn't around on the day the old media was fact-checked hard in less than a single 24-hour news cycle using MS Word alone (all due respect to Powerline, Command-Post, Allah, Instapundit, and all others I've read the day long...)

RWC #57

I feel so sad for the family. The behaviour of the "peace" activists is inhuman.

EE, Check the thread linked above "Cam bright like sun" there was some good explanations of it there, especially in relation to its availability in the early 70's.

Basically it when adjacent letters overlap the vertical like AV do.

It's a hard trick to do mechanically because different letter combinations require different amounts of overlapping.

Geepers (quoting a FARK-thing):

Wow, the New York Times, LA Times, CNN, Chicago Tribune, and Washington Post are the biased liberal media, but one random guy on a blog is worth listening to.

Charles is hardly "one random guy", but apart from that, this pretty much sums it up.

#20 Tim K.

My liberal friends have been pounding me with Bush is in deep shit now all day.

I believe this story is about the behaviour of the media today, not GWB 33 years ago.

It was an unpopular war and I think most people might have tried to get out of it if they could. Some of the stories about Kerry have him trying to evade. This is not something on which to determine who gets your vote.

(As a conscript in the apartheid-era South African Army, I considered it my sacred duty to do as little service as possible. When I did an entire training camp, on one occasion, I managed to hide my shoulder length hair under a wig, even after getting caught in the haircut inspection on the first day. It made it all worth while when I removed the wig after signing out on the last day and strolled to the gate.)

test again 2

66 Cam

BOOOooo...LOL.

Actually I was just about to type the same damn thing...LOL.

#65 Security Mom:

Security Mom! Git yer mind out the gutter! I would expect such sophmoric humour from evariste and myself, but you're a mom!

;-)

This is on Hannity and Colmes now.

Go Charles, it's your birthday, go Charles.

P.S. Happy B'day to Colt, also.

Don't you know that Al Gore invented Times New Roman right before he invented the internet!
Note to John Kerry - you have my permisssion to use on the campaign trail.

Charles,

Your supreme Lizard awesomeness continues to awe and inspire.

also - thanks to the "powerline" people for breaking this wide open.

Top of the hour ABC radio news quotes Killian's son as well as "a 1/2 dozen experts" who "cast doubt" on the authenticity of the documents

Can we get an ULULULULULULULULULULULULU?
:-)
:-)

#81 Buckaroo:

Ah, good times. I too am ululating in joy.

Truth be told, I'm so reaking giddy, I might just swarm a car.

Yep, good times.

Whoever faked this sure did a piss poor job. I mean, if you're gonna fake a typewritten document, use a typewriter, not microsoft word. Question is which idiot did this.

If you can, hit the LGF tip jar (it's on the left side of the screen) and throw Charles a few bucks.

After today's performance, and the additional server load and all...
 

Alan Colmes reminds me of 'skeletor' from the He-Man

Really? I think Maria Shriver is the Skeletor shoe-in for the stage adapation of He-Man.

You guys think you know everything, when you don't know a fucking thing.

[Link: www-1.ibm.com...]

Lookie lookie what I took from that link:
In 1941:

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

Fuck Bush.

# 84 Cam

Q. How do you start a Canadian car swarm?

A. Shout "Hey! There's a case of Labatt's under the rear seat!"

:-)
:-)

deserter: explain the kerning. No typewriter has ever been able to kern letters.

#90, looks like you still have more reading to do. We already knew there were typewriters with proportional spacing in the 70's. Good luck with your next try.

# 90

what the fuck does that have to do with the fact that this document was clearly written using microsoft word on a computer?

# 90

How do you explain the superscript, liar?

Charles:

ROTFLMFAO!

Woo!

I am an insane chimpanze and I am driving a Dodge Dart with no headlights.

Woo!

I am an introverted thinking intuitive perceptive on the Briggs-Myers personality chart and I am operating heavy machinery without seratonin reuptake inhibitors.

Woo!

I am a Zell Miller Democrat at the Madison Square Garden in New York City and I've got a gun!

Woo!

I think I just wet my pants!

Eww!

#90 BushIsADeserter

So could Troff, but I doubt the guy had a 2B3 and phototypersetter in his office. It could even make the superscript small "th" which the IBM could not.

Try again.

#90

Like most LLL, you have no manners.

Totally OT, but quite funny

Many West Germans would like the Berlin Wall back. At least a quarter of them would like East Germans living in a different state.

Way to go Charles.

Oh God, you're shaking the cobwebs in my mind. I remember the Lanier word processors, and the Xerox Star and Xerox 860 word processors, with the round touchpad on the keyboard. This was back in the early '80s, just before the first IBM PCs with Microsoft Wordstar, Word Perfect, and the dreaded Samna Word, with its keyboard templates and key overlay decals (yuck!).

Ah, the days of the 8" floppies.

Also, I once had a boss who'd been over a group of technical writers, creating semiconductor data books. So, I know a little about TeX too.

#64 Austin from Boston

I know, I know...I just noticed it ;-)

Your lucky I had a chicken wing in my hand durnit :-P

Like the late Richard Feynmann's O-ring in the glass of icewater during the Challenger disaster investigation, Charles Johnson's simple demonstration of overlaying a modern Microsoft Word document with the Killian forgery is so elegant even a journalist can understand it...

The tiny differences between Charles' and CBS version of the memo can be explained a couple of ways:

* The nth generation photocopy can and will distort individual letters (imperfections in the glass and general degradation of the letters)

* The first copy may have been printed on a dot-matrix printer or inkjet that smudged slightly

Put it this way: I would love to see anyone reproduce this memo as closely using ANY technology from the 1970s. It would be damn hard to do it today even using a different version of Times (TmsRmn, for example.)

The small th, the kerning, the proportional font are all icing on the cake.

Anyone with any experience in typography can see this as a forgery immediately.

#100--

Should be heartening to Kim Jong Il.

#90--

Already brought up and shot down. Font atlases show no font for ANY typwriter like Times New Roman.

And be polite. You're new here.

# 100 o

ROTFL!! They want the wall back but heaven forfend Israel builds one to protect against suicide bombers!
:-)

#25 tupsox

Not saying Krugman is one, but ALL communists, by definition, are economists.

Anyone putting together a memo, in the early 1970s, that looks like the sample we see here would have needed a Photon (or equivalent) typesetting machine, a single-purpose terminal that created a paper tape (later models accomodated magnetic tape) to feed into the Photon, a chemical processing station to develop and fix either the RC (resin-coated) paper or the exposed film, a darkroom to load the paper/film cassettes, a plate-making system and a letterpress, standing by ready to print ONE COPY OF A MEMO - maybe it was done in wood carving via the INTAGLIO method - perhaps the Guard commander was an ENGRAVER! hah ha - who needs PAIR KERNING tables if we are engraving plates by hand! - -ha ha ha

#101 Ward Cleaver

I still have my old Word Perfect keyboard layover. In my "computer museum" box...along with the old Tandy floppies and 100Mb drives, and a Commodore 64 cassette tape drive that still works ;)

Like most LLL, you have no manners.

When the facts contradict one's fantasy world, the cognitive dissonance causes them to scream louder.

#90

And they still couldn't do superscript.

GFY, loser.

On the issue of photocopying:

Why would a "Memo to file" be photocopied even once, much less multiple generations of copies? By definition, it would be there only for use as evidence later, and if it was never used as such until now, it would never have been copied.

The multiple generations of copying were for one reason alone--to make the document look "old" to the youngster who wrote it a few days ago.

Lawrence?!

First you conspiracy theorist fuckfaces claim the technology didn't exist, now you're claiming it might have, but the subscript didn't. You're all grasping at straws when in reality, since all of you loser nerd wannabes will be home alone tomorrow night, you should be grasping at your cock. And I'll bet you all believe every fucking word of the SwiftBoat Vets bullshit.

Fuck you and Bush.

#100

Don't the "West" Germans see the "East" Germans as their "trailer trash"?

Why the "th" is in a different place:

Take Charles' word document and turn it into a .pdf using Adobe Acrobat software (if you have it).

You will notice that the "th" in the .pdf file is slightly higher than it is in the word document.

This seems to be caused by the conversion process.

Conclusion: Document is forged.

Muppet

#90
See Charles' comment #60 on kerning and also see #72 by Geepers.
There are hundreds of pairs of characters for which a decision is needed concerning the kerning. The kerning of the document in question matches the kerning of Microsoft Word Times New Roman for all of the hundreds of pairs of characters. Now what are the chances that that was just a coincidence? And also the character form matches Times New Roman. And also the line spacing, and the spacing between words, and line break rules, and the default tabs all match the Microsoft Word Times New Roman microprocessed document. Can you imagine that probability that this was just a coincidence?

And in a typewriter whose manufacturer considered mere proportional spacing as revolutionary, surely that typewriter did not compute kerning for the hundreds of different character pairs, did it?

And with exactly the same kerning as Microsoft Word Times New Roman for the hundreds of different character combinations? And the same line spacing? And the same character form? And the same line break rules? And the same default tabs?

BushIsADeserter (#90),

That would be a good catch, except, as has been pointed out by kps, the IBM Executive never used the font on the memo.

So it doesn't matter that they were extremely hard to use, very expensive. Do try to keep up.

#109 - Sarah D.

I have an old Osborne (as opposed to a new one).

Help!

I came home from a hard day at the olive groves, only to discover that my wife has dishonored the family by somehow magnifying the computer screen so that Arafish could read it even without those Harry Caray specs.

I tried to change the display area setting, but the button at the bottom of the screen where you can "apply" the change is off the edge of the screen.

Is there anyway I can shrink this screen???

#115

/GAZE

#100

Personally, I can't blame those on either side for wanting to live without those on the other side.

#90 one-trick troll

Comparison + computer expertise = proof it's a forgery. Power Line posted an authentic memo with an authentic signature as the last entry in the linked thread.

Charles and Power Line have made a case which would meet the highest burden of proof in a court of law.

I love to see you leftists angry. I hope you stroke out when CBS is forced to do damage control in the next couple days. They'd be smart to do it now before the damage becomes irreparable, even with front page or lead story retractions.

Who knew Charles' font geek bona fides would come in so handy. What a scoop.

I wanna send a shout out to all the LGFers - hehe - just kidding.

Seriously - I do want to say "Congratulations" to all here and at other sites (Power Line, etc..) for discovering an incredible story. Way to go :-)

#115

Yeah! I hate nerds. NERRRDS!

Sarah D.,

I have a brand new TI 99/4A (one of the later beige ones, not the black-and-silver one), still in the box.

While there are lots of Democratic Underground who'd concede that the documents were forged, but by Karl Rove and his underlings, I have an alternative POV.

Recently, John Kerry's campaign is all but taken over by Bill Clinton's people, with Kerry's old campaign crew staying on only as token. What if this is a deliberate effort by Clinton's people to sink Kerry, once and for all? Afterall, their relationship with CBS is very good. Of course, this burns their CBS bridge to a great extend, but it's very worth it if they're setting for Hillary in '08.

#115 - My, somebody's in a pissy mood tonight. What a contrast to the jovial mood of those who viewed CBS's "scoop" with skepticism and are now being rewarded for it.

It's easy to tell who won this battle - just look at who seems the nastiest and most dicombobulated. Every pissy troll that I've seen on a blog tonight just makes me that much happier for Charles...

It's the day the blogs took down the MSM - and the dog shot the man...

Bush is a deserter:

You sound desperate. The sort of desperation that would make idiots go ape-shit over old news that has already been proven false.
Besides, the entire Bush as a deserter story is all BULL.
Learn the truth, loser.

Before you fall for the Dems spin, here are the facts:

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.
According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. . . .
That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).
Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.
“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”
So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.
Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.
In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.
Then, at his request, he was given permission to go.

#115

If Bush is a deserter, did you ever serve. I know I shouldn't feed this ilmannered troll, but I was just wondering.

Folks, I have something to point out. Take a look at CBS's "Memorandum, May 4, 1972" and "Memo to File, May 19, 1972". Note the partially blacked-out address on the first, as if that had been redacted, and the underlining on the second. Now compare with the copies that CBS faxed to the White House, as provided by the AP.

#35 Security Mom

Charles I think you are acutally having an effect on history in the making. Pretty dang cool.

Charles made a big effect on history with his guitar before the words "Little Green Footballs" were ever laced together.

#121 J. Lichty

Right click in an empty spot on the desktop and then left click on Properties. Go to Settings and reset the screen resolution (higher).

# 115

Methinks the Estrofest Sistahs would enjoy neutering this sad, mad dog ..
:-)
:-)

#69 SoCalJustice

check your mail - yahoo

#71 TouchDown

I know. Absolutely heartless.

#135--

You mean "kerned" together, to keep with this evening's theme.

Well, you know that the next time the MSM breathlessly exposes some Bush-bashing documentes they will get their forgery done right.

J. Lichty, the "Enter" key substitutes for OK/Apply on most systems ;-)

#90 Bush is a deserter -- "The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

Fuck Bush."

Well just fuck you right back shithead. Explain the "th" and the " " " marks and about a million other reasons why it's very reasonable to assume that the documents were forged and trotted out by the Dems and their lackeys at CBS to turn the election to John Forgery Kerry.

#135 - "Let's all kern together, right now..."

OK, no more channeling bad 70's pop songs.

#135 justdanny

#35 Security Mom
Charles I think you are acutally having an effect on history in the making. Pretty dang cool.

Charles made a big effect on history with his guitar before the words "Little Green Footballs" were ever laced together.

What j-dizzle-to-tha-nizzle said.

OT

Despite the Israel/Aipac "scandal," Bush continues to be led by his puppeteer Neo-Con/Zionists/Likudniks, greedy for Sudan's supply of gold.

How do I know?

Bush Declares Genocide in Sudan's Darfur

The far-left screams "genocide" all the time.

Yet they're sitting idly by while an actual one is taking place.

Where's Ken O'Keefe and his S10K? Oh yeah, he's a complete tool and a hypocrite.

#112 American Infidel

Jeez, don't pull your hair out over Charlie Rangel. It ain't worth it.

The Three experts used by CBS to confirm Documents
Paul Begalia(sic) James Carvell and Chris Matthews. Otherwise know as Moe, Larry and Curly.

OT: guys. we may have another pipe bomb to deal with.

Were the WMD "Lies" that the French Love to Mock Bush About Actually the Result of a Sinister French Trap?

[Link: no-pasaran.blogspot.com...]

#57 RWC

WTF!

Check Powerline again:
[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]

More stuff just posted; most interesting is about lack of any subject classification.

#115 BushIsADeserter

You keep referring to the fact that a particular technology was around. This proves nothing. The entire case relies on more than that:

the technology would not likely have been available to the person writing the memo.

the font was not available

the perfect match using one of the most common word processors in use today adds deeply to the suspicion of forgery

You're obviously keen to have something on Bush. This is the wrong thing.

BTW your crude language makes you seem desperate. I suggest you improve your vocabulary with alacrity.

Sarah D.

The problem is, when I do that the buttons for me to apply the changes are off the bottom of the screen, so that I can't get the changes to stick.

I cant move the box up high enough because I can only move it from the top bar of the window.

Any other suggestions.

#120 Keelie

Weren't those considered "portable"? I think they came with a word processing program too...Word Perfect?

Wow, we should open a museum together!

#128 Ward Cleaver

Why is it still in the box?

#90 BushIsAGreatGuy

Pretty funny. The only coherent part of your post is something you cut and pasted.

Sorry son, we are way past proportional spacing now.

nyah nyah neener neener

:-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P

Bush is a deserter (Punk)

Self-deportation: look into it.
Anger management: look into it.
Your left-wing indoctrination is almost complete:
- good boy.

Bush wins by a landslide: eat shit.

#137 Buckaroo:

Methinks the Estrofest Sistahs would enjoy neutering this sad, mad dog ..

No, it's never enjoyable, but we will take one for the team, and do what we have to do, Buckaroo!
Slime is always messy...

I emailed Dan Froomkin (WH beat internet reporter for the Wash Post) who today had written a lengthy blog like post about "the story that won't go away" (Bush's TANG stuff). I brought up the "th" and probable forgeries. He emailed me back and had this to say:

Thanks for your note. Another reader just sent me this, by the way:

[Link: www.ibmcomposer.org...]

We’re looking into it.

Dan

So I look at the link and it describes how the proportional font typewriter works. If, after reading the info on this page about how it works, you still think that a TANG officer would use this to write a memo, you're smoking dope.

(notice, no mention of the smaller font superscript th which CANNOT be explained away).

#103 Dar ul Harb

zing

#147

ROFLMAO!

Otherwise known as the three UNwise men.

OK, this is hysterical. Because I'm a good empiricist, I performed the same experiment at work today - please don't tell my boss - and got the same results.

By the way, as someone who fights, at least once a month, with the irritations of the Word formatting daemon, you can do a better job if you turn off the superscript fuction. If you want to do a forgery, I mean.

I tried it, and produced a better edition.

If you're going to commit forgery, think it through, first.

CBS Lied...Kerry's Campaign Died!

I have a bet with a friend on the election out come. I said Bush by 5-7% in the popular vote. If these are proved to be faked I think it will only be sporting to give him 7-10%.

Geeze, these guys are just morons.

I agree with the theory that Clinton's people probably spiked Kerry with this, using CBS as the moronic dupe. I've seen enough typed records from the 1970's to know that nothing looked like the CBS documents back then. Nothing. I've got property records, letters, and all different kinds of correspondence from back then (my father's).

The forged signature is so obviously fake that someone wanted to be found out. The real signature is a typical male messy, jerky sig. It's what you'd expect from someone who signed hundreds of documents a day. The fake one is vertical, loopy, closely-spaced, neat, and of a completely different style. Even if the man purported to have signed the document had tried to fake it he would not have been able to do it.

# 156 Ann

As always, we salute you fine womyn!
:-)

#93 Security Mom
Excellent point.
Case closed. It wasn't done on a typewriter because of the kerning.

#57, #149

Ah, the Dallas Peace Center. They're a bunch of freakin' losers. They're always in the news, making some inane declaration.

#152 J. Lichty

OK, the right arrow button will tab over to the Settings box. Once in there tab once, then hit the right arrow key once. After that, tab 6 times and hit enter.

Not sure what version of Windows your running...there might be slight variations.

(#138) RWC

Gracias.

OT again:

U.S. Blacklists Oregon Branch of Al Haramain Charity

"Al Haramain has been used around the world to underwrite terror, therefore, we have taken this action to excommunicate these two branches and Suliman Al-Buthe from the worldwide financial community," Levey said.

Treasury accused the Oregon branch of diverting donations meant to help refugees in Chechnya to the Mujahideen (jihad fighters) and Chechen leaders affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Um, there was an Oregon Branch of Al Haramain?

Oh brother. So we try and close the ones in Africa and the Middle East in January, but we leave the one in Oregon open?

Here's a story from almost a year ago:

Oregon group thrives despite al Qaeda ties

Well thrive no more! A full year after the Washington Times broke that story. Pathetic. We may have some Beslan blood on our hands - at least the DOJ/FBI may.

#115

ROTFLMAO

I love it when lefties get pissed!

Can I set my cup of tea on your head for a warm up?

A heartwarming statement from RatherBiased.com:

Passions are high inside CBS News as the network is facing yet another outpouring of public discontent, this time over 60 Minutes's boneheaded decision to publicize phony documents "proving" that George W. Bush was AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.

Many staffers are placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of Dan Rather who they say was the driving force behind a shoddily researched story that ought never to have aired.

Meanwhile, CBS's News publicity flacks have abandoned answering their phones, overwhelmed with calls from angry viewers and inquisitive journalists.

This may have been posted on another thread and not new to you, but it's new - and delightful - to me. "Flacks" abandoning their phones. Hee hee.

#49 Cornholio

I predict the left-wing media will bury this Kerry scandal on page B-128 of the New York Times,

They should move it to 'Arts' section.

BTW, there are plenty of fonts examples on the Kerry's site that contains selection of different documents from the same period that his hanlers deared to publish.

Okay, I'm less of a font geek than Charles - though I've spent quite a few weeks over the past decade or so hacking Postscript files. (I work on Telco billing systems, and the systems I've developed all produce Postscript output because it allows for prettier bills.)

To me, everything about this memo screams FAKE! Noway, nohow was it produced in '72. Even if the TANG had used highly-trained Linotype operators for regular memos, it would still look very different. (And the idea that they did so is absurd.)

So why did CBS buy it? Are they just that stupid? Sure, they're eager to jump on anything that might be bad for Bush, but anyone with the slightest knowledge of how documents are produced would know immediately that this was a forgery.

The lesson we learn from this is that not only are the MSM deeply biased and dishonest, but that they are extremely stupid as well. Which is good, because it just makes it easier to stomp on 'em.

Awww

#115 is so cutesy wutesy cuddly wuddly...

I would like to take him home and hug him and squeeze him and pet him and I will call him George...

#90

Loon, let's make it simple for you--summary of major points:
1. Times New Roman typeface appeared first in late 1980's. It has specific metrics and kerning hints that no other typeface has. Earlier version, called Times Roman, is different. Two lines typed in each font won't be the same. In other words, the overlay would show no match.
2. Times Roman typeface was not available for any typewriter in 1970's, it was available only for tyepsetting equippment.
3. Superscripted, scalled "th" was bot available for any typewriter in 1970's, nor since, let alone in Times New Roman.
4. It is not possible to kern letters on a typewriter.

History of Times New Roman
1
2

Dont worry, the NY Times will have a retraction deeply embedded on page E-98 on Sunday to clear this up.

It gets worse for the Democrats.

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

I guess this story depends on whether the woman's identity can be confirmed as who she says she is.

Mark Levine says Barnes has a daughter named Amy.

#130

It's the day the blogs took down the MSM - and the dog shot the man...

An excellent juxtaposition.

#115 BushIsADeserter:

since all of you loser nerd wannabes will be home alone tomorrow night, you should be grasping at your cock.

Wow, project much? And not to be pedantic, but since you were addressing us in the plural, (since all of you loser ) you really should have described us as "grasping at our cocks", plural.

Aside from that, I think that you may have won the award for ost uses of "fuck" in only three posts. Congratulations. Now here's your hero cookie.

Chump.

Just for posterity sake, here's a link to the front page of the Wash Post today:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Just so you know, I get the Wash Post (for free weekdays for a couple of months, get the Sunday Post just for the ads, sports). For three consecutive days, there were frontpage headlines (above the fold) talking about Iraq war dead. For two consecutive days, they had articles about the 7 killed in Iraq earlier this week. Why have essentially the same article about the exact same story above the fold, page A1, two days in a row???

I am going to save a jpeg image of the frontpage for the foreseeable future. I wish that I had done it for the two Sundays before the Dem Nat. Convention and the Rep convention. The tone of the articles was sooo different.

Just logged on and WOW. haven't read the comments, but did read the posts from Charles. Sheesh, some people will do anything to try and slam the Pres. lucky some folks were watching. Good job, Charles

Mcgyver, out

Charles:

Didn't Codehead make a version of Aldus for the Amiga series of computers? That was the first > 8-bit PC I owned (Amiga 500 & 1200), and there was a lot of Desktop Publishing software for the thing up to the end.

But as I remember, the Ataru ST/TT was more oriented to the Desktop Publishing field, whereas the Amiga was more oriented toward graphics.

# 172 RWC

"I will call him George"

Boy, that might just send him over the edge right there!
:-)

[Link: www.leanleft.com...] now claims that the right-wing blogosphere is nuts.

#176... And Charles is as cute as those man-shooting puppies, too. I think he is, anyway.

Charles;

Take me with you, man. I was there from way back, man. You gotta take me with you, man. I'm going with you, man. Charles. C'mon. Call me. You are the man.

#179 Mcgyver:

Hey! Are you back stateside now?

Babe 9/9/2004 06:42PM PST

WOW shit-hot if it's true!

I know the comments are flying fast, but please take time to look at my #133. It appears that the documents were enhanced(?) between the time that CBS sent them to the White House and the time that CBS posted their story. I reckon that this narrows down the possible answers to "Who?" But why?

Oh my God, I can't believe it! Who could be so stupid as to pass this as a memo produced in '72--on what? There is no way it could look like that without being professionally typeset. Charles, for once I know what you are talking about :). I started my typesetting career in '78, using Redactrons (a glorified typewriter) as word processor and fed into a DymoGraphic phototypesetter. (Maybe not the state of that art at the time, but close). As far as I remember, the superscript "th" had to be done manually by reverse lead, change pt size, add lead, change pt size. Too much work for a simple memo.

What a crock o'shit.

First you conspiracy theorist fuckfaces claim the technology didn't exist, now you're claiming it might have, but the subscript didn't. You're all grasping at straws when in reality, since all of you loser nerd wannabes will be home alone tomorrow night, you should be grasping at your cock. And I'll bet you all believe every fucking word of the SwiftBoat Vets bullshit.

Fuck you and Bush.
***

Now, THAT'S an impressive display of intellectual acumen.

#121

Hit ALT-A to apply.

Hello all!! I'm new here and would appreciate any advice for a new blogger. Heard about this website on a local AM Radio Station in the Seattle Area.

#90:

I'm currently a Reservist who also spent two years on Active Duty. I don't know if you have seen the article by Byron York in the National Review Online but it pretty much outlines how the Guard and Reserve attendance system works. I know it might be hard for you to understand this but it seems to me, despite the facts, you refuse to accept them. George W. Bush was not a deserter nor was he AWOL. Basically you are required to participate a certain number of days per year in the Guard/Reserve to have a good year. When you are absent you are either excused or not. If the days missed are excused you have the ability to make those days up which it appears President Bush did. All of this can be validated by pay and retirement records which the President has released. I won't get long winded here but the article explains it all. You just need to face the facts and debate on real issues not contrived ones.

The facts about Bush and the Air National Guard

#181 Buckaroo

:-)

This whole issue is already causing a ruckus at Democratic Underground. ;-)

Congratulations, Charles, on discovering the details of how the document was prepared -- Microsoft Word Times New Roman, using the defaults.

I would like to see the mainstream media pick up on this discovery, and to give you recognition for it.

The fact of the forgery, and the modus operandi, are sensational news.

Good work, Charles!

#108 Hassen bin Sober

So what you're saying is that it was theoretically possible even if astoundingly unlikely and Occam's razor be damned? Well, that's good enough for me!

Now, enough of these internecine mind games, I must return to my mantra: "Bush lied, Haliburton, WarForOil, etc. etc. etc."

Signed,
Your average below-average Kerry supporter

OMG!
According to Dan Rather, 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents taken from Col. Killian's personal file!
OMG!

#191 - Isn't it, though? Why, his penis must be large. As we all know, it's the posters who have the courage to say "fuck" a lot who are the real men around here...

My guess is our discussion of him tonight is the closest he's ever come to female companionship.

Sarah D. it worked. here's some digital baklava to you for that advice. Ululating.

172 Right Wing Conspirator

That made me LOL - thank you

OT

I just flipped over to the U.S. Open from the football game, and Andy Roddick is getting his clock cleaned by some Swedish guy named Joachim Johansson.

6-4, 6-4, 0-1 (on serve, but Roddick has a break point).

Get it together Andy, this is your championship!

Meanwhile, are people still talking about forgeries?

There's quality sports television going on right now.

And Roddick just broke!

Sweet.

C'mon, Andy!

VH-1 one show coming up where an American guy named Amir is going to try to get Saxa and Dave wakeling and Ranking Roger to jam together again.

I hope they do the depressing yet ethemeral "Dreamhome in NZ".

Back at commercial breaks.

Holy shit!

According to Dan Rather, 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents taken from Col. Killian's personal file!

Good God!

#194 - I swore to myself I'd never visit the Cesspool of the DU's until election night, when they'll be seething and whining and passing out.

But I might have to stop by tonight, if their hissy fits are good enough...

My letter to CBS 60 Minutes II

You have to imagine it in Courier New, because I can't make a comment here change fonts. Nonetheless, the text should do:

Dear Sirs:

For the benefit of any on your staff who may not have seen one, I am typing this letter in a fixed-pitch typeface.

Armed with this knowledge, perhaps you won't be caught peddling forged documents in the future.

With the dramatic way that your story about President Bush' Air National Guard service has unraveled today, you must indeed be upset.

After all, you face that old dillema, familar to all those who get caught red-handed: will you admit to idiocy or malice?

I am eager to see which choice you make.

Sincerely,

Eli Israel
Burlington, Massachusetts
eli@promanage-inc.com

Good Grief!

According to Dan Rather, 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents taken from Col. Killian's personal file!

Mother of all that is holy and sacred!

#199 J. Lichty

Good! Now how to keep you wife off the computer :)

In its response, the LLL slave media have nothing to fall back on but authoritarian strawmen and Big Lies in the mold of the founder of activist media, Dr. Goebbels.

In this, and their insane desperation, they resemble their spokes-droid here, Bush-is-a-deserter.

Note that this imbecile presumes to tell us what we have said, and lie about it, when our actual words are there for all to see. Yet, "deserter" would probably deny being an authoritarian.

#194 Right Wing Conspirator:

I take it those wee moppets could be described as Munchkins?

Rimshot!

I typed on the Executive way back in the early 70s, and there's no way that these documents are typed on an Executive. It's sort of like MS Word Times New Roman on steroids; lots of capital letters, etc., are huge and the whole thing looks totally different.

Ok, I just have to scream about this - a German Shepherd is a more deliberative dog? Huh?

I'm a dog person. The Shepherd is a nice dog, but it's only deliberative if it's had hip or elbow displasia, and even then, you can tell they hate it. They love to run, they love to wrestle. They have a low, physical sense of doggie humor. What on earth was this idiot talking about?

#200 Isobella

Thanks :-)

I had to retype it too...first one got sucked into that zone that's all twilighty.

Hey, did you hear the one about Dan Rather and 60 Minutes obtaining a number of documents taken from Col. Killian's personal file!

Ha!

More forgery:

[Link: img49.exs.cx...]

Has the superscipt 'th'...and look at the font!

I guess the question now is, why did Bush release the above forgery back in 2000?

#204 kimberly

I knew I should have used something else. Some people avoid DU like the plague. Go ahead, it's safe - it doesn't link to DU. :-)

#209 Cam

Someones quick tonight :-) Out of Labatts :-P

Is this Lawrence guy retarded? Or does he simply have nothing better to do?

Stolen from a commenter on PoliPundit tonight:

WHAT IS THE FREQUENCY OF THE SPACES, KENNETH?

Heh.

If CBS is claiming these came from his personal file, who put the forgeries in his file? It's not even his signature. If they have his file, how could they not compare the alleged signature with his real signature?

This smells bad. CBS just made the damage claim larger. I guess they think actual malice is too hard to prove. With Dan Rather being a openly partisan Democrat, and the network's history, running Bush hit-pieces, I don't think it's hard to prove at all.

#193 citizensoldier. Welcome, and thank you for your service to this wonderful country. And thank you for your remarks.

Charles, it was interesting to see that you were involved with the Atari ST computer. Our daughter still plays games on the Atari ST1040. It was one heck of a machine. I thought it was ahead of its time, graphics-wise. In fact, my first experience with a computer was the ST. I liked the graphics so much better than the old compatibles. (My husband's first computer was a Kaypro. And that REALLY goes back.)

212 Right Wing Conspirator

Well worth the retype... I'm still amused & smiling

Off-Topic: Has anyone noticed the Reuters-supplied photo on the front page of the LA TImes site. The caption reads "Palestinian youth runs for cover in Jabiliya camp today." The thing that makes this dubious is that the background is filled with people who appear calm and disinterested in whatever his this kid running off.

I haven't found a proper link on the Reuters site yet so I can only hope the LA TImes version stays put for a while.

#215 - Oh, too funny. I didn't check the link before. But it's not quite accurate, because those tots look somewhat cheerful - and educable.

As opposed to the mental toddlers at DU.

#215 Right Wing Conspirator:

LOL. Thank God I stocked up. The avalanche of apoplectic twits trying to justify Rathers' bullshit has driven me to drink - and yes, Bushisadessert - uh, I mean "deserter" .(Keep mind out of gutter, Cam).
I am referring to you and your ilk.

#214 furiousxgeorge:

I clicked on the link and could not find a superscript. where is it?

Top of the hour ABC radio news just played a quote of Killian's widow saying he must be "turning over in his grave" with the knowledge that someone is trying to peddle these fakes -- the anchor again stated "CBS continues to stand by them" but various experts "doubt they're real"

# 182 M_D

someone oughtta have "leanleft" re-do their silly "defense" of the memos right quick ...
:-)

This whole delightful business reminds me of a line heard from a local radio disk jockey (whose name escapes me) about 20 years ago - I paraphrase:

"Oh yeah, they proved that those Hitler diaries were phony; they were written with a Flair pen!"

I mean, is this the best that a group of supposedly intelligent, educated people can do? Hell, anyone who had sat through two episodes of either of the "CSI" TV melodramas would know that to forge a typed document, you must use a typewriter! My 14-year-old son could probably devise a more convincing fake than this (provided he asked his father a few questions first, of course. Father is most devious).

Oh, and #97 Lawrence:

You are none of those things. What you are is a conduit for the eternal current of Universal Light and Wisdom. Thank you for the perfect Belly Laugh of the Week. Accept love and hugs.

#223--

Look at the "111th"s. One has the superscript--but the scan is so bad it might just be a smudge. And why only one?

OMG. There is no depth to the hatred of these pieces of human debris:

Peaceful anti-war protestors turn on bereaved military family...

SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM

Beagle,

Your dog shoots man story has been forwarded to Kim DuToit for his Dept. of Rightious Shootings. :-D

citizensoldier (#193),

You picked a pretty hectic day for a first post. Welcome aboard. Thanks for the link, but I doubt it's going to do much for BushIsADeserter. I get the feeling he's not very open to facts that negate his opinions.

You can learn a bit about LGf at the FAQ page.

I went into lurk mode several months ago, but this story got me to register.

I saw the headlines about the memos (but not that they are probably forgeries) while I was at work today, but decided not to worry...I just said to myself, "I'll wait and see what all the lizards at LGF have to say."

This one sure didn't fall under the 72 hour rule, did it?

Here's an idea for a thread...

What were you doing and thinking about on September 10, 2001, the last day of your old life (or the last day of the 20th century)?

I started thinking about that and 9/11 today. I went to LGF's archives to see what the topics were that day.

Infidel in McKinney-ville
fka Abu McKinney

#193 citizensoldier

Welcome to LGF :-)

First thing, don't waste so much time dealing with people like that. Easiest thing to do is either ignore them or just have fun with 'em. And if you are going to be around for a while, it is a good idea to check the FAQ in the top left.

I just love it when LLL girlie-men shriek and wet their panties!

#214

Better question, why are all the other "111th" listings done just like I did it? It looks more like lb with a line under it than th. The font is completely different. Keep trying. Charles can handle troll traffic.

#226

What the heck are you talking about. There aren't any superscripts, not to mention that all of the 'th's' are the same size/font in the document you link to...

#230 Infidel in McKinney-ville

If you haven't yet, check out Tilly's story and 9-11 stories on the left sidebar. Kind of hard to read, but well worth it.

/why am I feeling like a salesman tonight :-P

Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

Read the facts...

#226 JohnAnnArbor:

Thanks. Obviously, the person who typed this took the time and energy to roll the typewriter back back one space, remove the existing font, replace it with the removable "golfball", type "th", replace the golfball with the origianl fo...

Sorry, I dozed off in the middle of my Kerry-voter impersonation.

;-)

#234--

Second line of typing in the link at #214.

#234 only_truth:

Look at the first mention of "111th".

BushIsADeserter is not in a good mood.

Dear LGF Readers:

Please forgive me for posting this comment. I admit that I did not have anything constructive, relevant, interesting, or original to say. I only posted this comment because I need attention. Okay. I am a troll masquerading as an LGFer. My mask has been removed. Don't hate me. I am not that different than you. I just want to be liked.

No. I am not Al Franken. I am just an ordinary guy. I don't even have a television show. But that is why you should trust me when I say that according to Dan Rather, 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents taken from Col. Killian's personal file!

Must prepare for FNDT... Sleep is the best way. With a smile!
Good work, all!!!

Cam:

My head hurts. Me very dim when it comes to anything computerise (heck, I can't even type with more than two fingers). Can I have a drink yet? Please?

Why is the "th" after "111" superscripted in the second line and not in the rest of the document, where it appears several more times?
Also, why is the superscript in your version recognizably different from this one, taken from DU today (no underscore, darker, closer spacing)?

This is a fucking forgery, all right, but not one released by Bush or anyone else in 2000.

Wang Labs, ahhh yes... I was a "Wang man" in the mid-80's. VS100. VS300's, WP10's, OIS, WangNET and the first generation Wang PC's etc,, yep, could fix 'em all. And them friggen daisy-wheel printers AND those filthy 1st generation laser printers... Couple of points, Wang was an all-American company, NOT Chinese or Japanese (based out of Lowell, MA) and they were the largest producer of TEMPEST gear (electronically-secure data processing government standards). Used to work on the stuff in DC at Dept. Of State and at No Such Agency somewhere in the Maryland hinterlands... Got an award for prepping the systems that Reagan took with him on his first trip to Moscow in '86.

"Is your Wang down?"
"Rather personal question, don't you think?!?"

(VERY short-lived T-shirt (and employee wearing same) rumored to have been spotted at HQ "WANG is the chink in IBM's armor". NOT!!!)

#214 furiousxgeorge:

Are you a total idiot or just a complete moron?

The document you linked does NOT have a superscripted "th" as you claim. Also, its clearly a monospaced font.

Do you understand what a superscript is? Do you understand the difference between monospaced and proportional?

Sheesh. Dolt.

#240 zulubaby:

I rather suspect that that jackass is rarely in a good mood, unless he's chanting "Bush Lied! People Died", or discussing the vast Zionist Neoconservative Conspiracy to defraud him of his welfare cheques.

Hey Charles.

How about re-doing the overlay, changing your MS Word text to a different, translucent color?

# 243 Fay

To the blogosphere, for revealing once and for all the LLL networks' complete lack of scruples

Salud!!!

Instead of watching the staid drivel on commercial television, and I won't pay for direct tv either, I've put on a nice classic of a movie. RobRoy.
So much for political lies out of the mouths of our nefarious
millstone around the neck of anchorpeople.
Hopefully this will mean the death of the brilliant idea of 527's by McCain and Stinkfein. McCain should be ashamed of himself.

Charles:

RadioMattM told me that LGF was mentioned on KVI (local Seattle radio station) today. This could explain an influx of Seattle area traffic.

Cam, the Bush-haters are always in a fury! What is it with these people?

#243 Fay:

Can I have a drink yet? Please?

You're damned straight you can. Pull up a stool and lemme buy you one, gorgeous.

So, uh, come here often?

FYI:

You've been linked by realclearpolitics.com, a popular political poll site.

Thanks all! And thanks to Charles for uncovering the truth. You can't imagine how it feels to have someone like John Kerry want to be your Commander in Chief. To view his Senate testimony and voting records, let alone hear about his secret meetings with the North Vietnamese during the war make my skin crawl. He'll be about as well received as Bill Clinton was. But at least Bill Clinton was honest about "loathing" the military...we knew what we were getting.

Anyway, I spent 6 months in Kuwait and a bit of time in Iraq during which some crazy terrorist would shoot off his AK at night and one of them even fired a mortar round into our sleeping area. I don't pretend that I was in near the amount of danger that others are on a daily basis in Iraq. It would be so enlightening for these LLL to spend about a week in Fallujah or Najaf...because no matter what side of the isle you are on...there is no better place than America!

#249 Buckaroo

Great toast, l'chaim!

#252 zulubaby:

Cam, the Bush-haters are always in a fury! What is it with these people?

'Cause being wrong blows goats. And being wrong all of the time blows a herd o' goats.

;-)

as I understand it, having a superscript th in a fixed width courier font is possible. It is the superscript, combined with the fact it is proportionally spaced, combined with the rare font in the memo in question that is the impossible combination for a typewriter.

It's a good thing no one's paying any attention to this and other things from 30 years ago -- this election is *all* about the issues of today.

Wait, that's in another dimension.

Got in touch with the folks at ibmcomposer.org to ask about whether the letter could have been written on the Composer series of typewriters. Here is Gary Kaplan's response (and BTW, he's been swamped with queries about this all day).

I have been fielding inquiries such as this all day today. Who would have ever thought that my website featuring an old machine would get such hits. I think its original hit count was somewhere around 400, and today its up to 2280!

Putting font-related issues aside and focusing primarily on the technical aspect of The Selectric Composer, it most certainly could have produced the document with the superscripted "th". However, we are not talking about a process that is feasible for general use. First, the IBM Selectric Composer was not cheap, costing upwards of $3500 back in the early/mid 60's. Second,
they were never used for general correspondence, rather they were specifically used in print shops, typesetting shops, magazines, and newspaper. Their function is to Justify text using proportional fonts. I
have one of these machines, and it is not a simple machine to operate, so the liklihood that anyone not familiar with typography would know how to create a document such as the ones in question, is close to nil.

My opinion is that the documents were most likely NOT produced on any of the various IBM Composers.

I saw one article where someone indicated that IBM would in fact create specialized type elements for the selectric typewriter to contain the superscripted letters ("th", "nd", "rd", "st", etc), however what that analysis fails to realize is that NONE of the IBM Selectric typewriters of that time were able to produce proportional spacing. They were all "pica" or "elite" (fixed spacing). So, even if they did have one, the rest of the document wouldn't be set in proportional spacing.

Gerry

When looking at the technology of the time, we have to ask:

1). Whether it was possible, and
2). Whether it was feasible for the use it was purported to be put.

Seems to me the Composer passed test 1, but not 2.

#90

Ok I'll puff out my chest too.

I spent the first 20 yrs of my working life in printing and publishing for CBS records australia (now Sony Music).
Spent the next 15yrs in Animation for film and TV and computer games.
I was there before during and after computers took over.
I did well cause I hand a passion for computers so I ended up solving all the problems.

These documents are a real joke.
Enough evidence has already been put up regarding the Times font issues and the kerning.
The other missing evidence seems to be the lack of ribbon impact marks, smudges or "sliding" effects common on mechanical printers.

These boof heads could have done 20 minutes of googling and realised a better fake could have been made by using a dot matrix printer, teletype or and IBM teleprinter.

Aside form the font avaliablity issue, most of the smooth or non mechanical fonts were (at that time) done on large expensive and very proprietory electronic typesetters which used optical output on light sensitive paper. This was then waxed onto boards and shot under a bromide camera to produce film.

I laugh at you trolls

You are so quick to believe conspiracy about ANYTHING.
But get some proof to disprove your hairbrained theories
and you all react like trapped wild animals.

# 257 Cam

Now there is some deep Brit. Col. wisdom ...
:-)

Wa'sallam, kufr!

I bear witness that it was my friend's little brother Abdul who did the documents, for the pleasure of Allah Ta'ala and the destruction of the infidel Bush. He used the computer down at the local masjid.

But the fact remains that, having been done on a masjid computer, and having been done, insh'allah, for the pleasure of Allah Ta'ala, the documents are of course, of their very nature, genuine.

And Allah Ta'ala knows best.

#253 Cam:

Cute ;-)

So, are you on for the meet up?

Back in the day when Charles was working in Atari/Amiga software I was among those selling it at retail and later using programs like Pagemaker to make game manuals at Cinemaware.

One thing to remember about many technological innovations is that they usually don't get really good until they become affordable enough for a large audience to offer their input as well as producing competing implementations that drive the feature set and ease of use as the natural result of competition.

Yes, a lot of the technology that we all have at hand today got its start in the 60's and some forms were even commercially available in 1972, these were very expenisve as well as being difficult to use. The idea of a TANG officer, unless producing attractive documents was his primary duty, investing the time and effort to master the typesetting technology that then existed, is preposterous.

Even after this stuff reached the high-end consumer and small business markets it was many years before the automation of MS Word and the like became so effectively automated. 80's Macintosh users of Desktop Publishing software still had to do a lot of this stuff by hand. At the time it was considered nothing short of amazing that the technology gave the opportunity to slave over documents in this way. We sweated blood to get the expensive software of yore to do what freeware programs like OpenOffice do automatically today. Again, the idea of a military officer struggling to accomplish this mechanically not only requires one to suspend disbelief but to hang it by the neck until dead.

To get an idea of how improbable it is for a TANG officer in 1972 to have the means at hand, check out a book called Fumbling the Future which examines how Xerox failed to successfully market one of the first truly commercial implementations of a GUI word processor that offered many of the features in question. In one section it is noted that this system was installed in the White house during the first Reagan administration in hopes of making the technology appreciated in the highest office in the land. The Reagan folks loved it and soon raised the bar for the appearance of press releases created on short notice.

So, almost a decade after the date of the supposed memo, even the White House only had this capability in advance of the advent of mass market version because the manufacturer offered it as a free loan.

#262 Buckaroo:

LOL! Ah, the joys of a rural upbringing. I have any number of rural witticisms describing various acts of animals in flagrente delecto that I could share...

On second thought, mayhaps I'll drop it.

;-)

I've never been drunk in Alabama, because I've never been there.

But I have been drunk in Jones County, Mississippi, northeast of Laurel when I worked in the Smackover and Sligo and Rodessa reservoirs, and that is pretty close to Alabama.

Can someone email me and tell me how to fix a computer problem I'm having? Quite often the entire LGF page won't load, and I'll only be able to read to a comment partway through the thread (and not post). I'm a computer 'tard, and husband is on extended TDY so any help would be appreciated.

Of course, Charles, if this is your way of telling me to shut up because the Drama Queen behavior is getting old, point taken.

This also happens with Drudge sometimes, and military.com

And, round of applause please - it looks like Hubby may get his PCS orders more than 30 days out this time! (although we've already passed the 90 day mark).

#257 Cam

I had a feeling that your goat would get loose again tonight!

The "Winter Weekend Warrior" investigation with Jane Fonda.

The investigation, Mr. Bush claimed, brought together 150 honorably discharged National Guardsman, many of them highly-decorated, who testified to atrocities committed both on and off base, "not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

"They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do," Mr. Bush said. "They told the stories of times they had personally goofed off, skipped weekend duty, gone out drinking, short-sheeted a fellow guardsman's bed, telephoned local stores and asked if they had Prince Albert in a can, drove faster than the speed limit, used salty language in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot mailboxes and road signs for fun, raided the base commissary for Pop Tarts and generally ravaged the country side of Texas."

Mandatory evacuation of the entire Florida Keys has been ordered, emergency shelters on the Keys will not be open, all residents must go to the mainland.

...PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
MONROE COUNTY HAS ALREADY INITIATED AN EVACUATION OF VISITORS AND NON-RESIDENTS INCLUDING ALL RECREATIONAL VEHICLES.

A PHASED MANDATORY EVACUATION OF KEYS RESIDENTS WILL COMMENCE ON FRIDAY. HERE IS HOW IT WILL WORK.

AT 700 AM...THOSE FROM KEY WEST TO THE 7-MILE BRIDGE SHOULD EVACUATE. AT NOON...RESIDENTS OF THE MIDDLE KEYS SHOULD EVACUATE. AT 400 PM...RESIDENTS OF THE UPPER KEYS SHOULD EVACUATE.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR RE-ENTRY PERMIT.

THE SHELTER FOR MONROE COUNTY IS LOCATED AT FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY. TAKE U.S. 1 NORTH TO THE TURNPIKE...THEN EXIT EAST ON
S.W. 8TH STREET. FOLLOW THE SIGNS TO THE SHELTER...WHICH WILL BE OPEN AT 500 PM FRIDAY.

SHELTERS IN THE KEYS WILL NOT BE OPEN.

FOR THOSE NOT GOING TO THE F I U SHELTER...THE TURNPIKE IS THE SUGGESTED ROUTE.

YOU MAY LEAVE EARLY IF YOU WISH.

TOLLS AT CARD SOUND ROAD AND ON THE TURNPIKE HAVE BEEN LIFTED.

THE MONROE COUNTY INFORMATION HOT-LINE HAS THE LATEST INFORMATION. THEY MAY BE REACHED AT 1 800...9 5 5...5 5 0 4.

INDC Journal reports on the conclussion on the 'memos' by one of the two people in the US (acc to INDC) qualified to make this type of statement that "At Least" 90% Positive They're Fake"

Speaking of geeks, time to go watch Ken on Jeopardy!

#264 Fay:

I is. I must fix the Truck of Doom this weekend, so that I may make it.

I should also point out that none of y'all will be shelling out a hundred bones for the ferry, so no wisecracks when I whip out the sliderule to calculate an 8% tip...

P.S. I will also be wearing the t-shirt my neices bought me in Montreal:

Everyone is Entitled to My Opinion.

Adorable little moppets. They said they thought of me as soon as they saw it, although I cannot imagine why.

;-)

.(Keep mind out of gutter, Cam).

I have been drunk in Alabama. It's the only way to understand what they're saying.

OnlyTruth (#157): That IBM Composer is interesting, but there's no way that machine should even be considered. If you read the description of what it was designed to do, it was supposed to make completely justified text -- like in a newspaper or book. Those disputed memos are, to use a newspaper term, ragged right (the right margin isn't straight).

If the AP reporter is using that to suggest it could've created the memos, he's barking up the wrong tree.

Also, is there any possible way that someone's going to use that complicated machine to write a CYA memo?

To paraphrase Shakespeare: Givest thou me a break.

#268 militarybrat

I think that that is just because of all the traffic. It happened to me earlier today, a couple of times.

Dear Military Brat:

I had the same problem! Just put your mouse in a bucket of water and use your keyboard function keys. It worked like a charm for me.

#269 Sarah D.:

Frickin' goat. Throw a couple of beer into him and he's all over hell's half acre.

Per ABC Radio news, now the late Colonel's wife is doubting the authenticity of the memos. I'd heard about the son, but not the wife also expressing doubts. Not sure this is news to most, but it is more good news.