LGF

-RetweetFrench Perfidy Watch

Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 7:33:02 pm PDT

The Italian businessman who produced forged documents about Saddam’s plans to buy uranium from Niger was working for France: Agent behind fake uranium documents worked for France.

The Italian businessman at the centre of a furious row between France and Italy over whose intelligence service was to blame for bogus documents suggesting Saddam Hussein was seeking to buy material for nuclear bombs has admitted that he was in the pay of France.

The man, identified by an Italian news agency as Rocco Martino, was the subject of a Telegraph article earlier this month in which he was referred to by his intelligence codename, “Giacomo”.

His admission to investigating magistrates in Rome on Friday apparently confirms suggestions that - by commissioning “Giacomo” to procure and circulate documents - France was responsible for some of the information later used by Britain and the United States to promote the case for war with Iraq.

Italian diplomats have claimed that, by disseminating bogus documents stating that Iraq was trying to buy low-grade “yellowcake” uranium from Niger, France was trying to “set up” Britain and America in the hope that when the mistake was revealed it would undermine the case for war, which it wanted to prevent.

Italian judicial officials confirmed yesterday that Mr Martino had previously been sought for questioning by Rome. Investigating magistrates in the city have opened an inquiry into claims he made previously in the international press that Italy’s secret services had been behind the dissemination of false documents, to bolster the US case for war.

According to Ansa, the Italian news agency, which said privately that it had obtained its information from “judicial and other sources”, Mr Martino was questioned by an investigating magistrate, Franco Ionta, for two hours. Ansa said Mr Martino told the magistrate that Italy’s military intelligence, Sismi, had no role in the procuring or dissemination of the Niger documents.

He was also said to have claimed that he had obtained the documents from an employee at the Niger embassy in Rome, before passing these to French intelligence, on whose payroll he had been since at least 2000.

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323 comments

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1 LSD  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:35:39pm

We have:

oil for food-gate

berger-gate

Rather-gate

weeehooo

2 Lysander  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:35:43pm

Meanwhile, the MSM can't wait to bring down CBS, and certain leftista blogs wets themselves like over-eager puppies defending that "story" while completely ignoring this one.

Lysander

3 SmithL  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:36:12pm

Axis of Weasles!

4 Barbara Skolaut  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:36:46pm

Won't matter - Kerry, the Dems, the LLL (but I repeat myself) and the MSM will spin this to cover it up and/or place the blame where they really want it.

Say, isn't "Rove" an Italian name? ;-}

5 monkeyweather  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:38:20pm

#1 LSD
You're right - we should all buy stock in gates, since there is such a run on them.

6 gymnast  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:39:16pm

This just really makes a person want to get up and go down to the nearest pond and gig a few frogs. On the other hand it would do a lot more good for Powell to call in the French ambassador and gig him.

7 kmilby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:39:34pm

Damn if only I had a computer to find out the definition of "Perfidy". I am sure I would be a better person.

What I do know is, France and the French leave a tremendous amount to be desired to say the least. If they weren’t such horrible cheap socialist surrender monkey's, they could probably be a contender on the world stage. Instead they are just the laughing stock.

8 RayH  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:40:02pm

Our trusted allies the French!
We need more like them.

//sarcasm off

9 SoCalJustice  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:41:33pm

That Buchanan/Raimondo crowd have been trying to pin this on the Mossad.

Big surprise.

10 gbl  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:44:29pm

"France was trying to “set up” Britain and America in the hope that when the mistake was revealed it would undermine the case for war, which it wanted to prevent."

Why anyone would want to do business with these crooks is beyond me. F their wine, cheese and tourism industy. Maybe we should start a petition to move the UN to Paris. The two would be perfect together.

11 Yehudit  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:44:30pm

OMG. I check the InTrade results every day (right side bar), and Bush is now up to 72! In Iowa Markets Bush is down a few points from a high of 62 yesterday.

12 Powderfinger  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:44:43pm

Rocco Martino?

That sounds like a porn star name I might make up. It has just a tad more credibility than Buck Naked.

13 groovyruby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:45:41pm

Is this being reported in the mainstream press? If not why not? I think its a crime that the BBC and others are surpressing this amazingly important story.

How can we get this story to a wider audience?

The ramifications of this are incredible. France not only with the most oil contracts in Saddam' Iraq but now, not just purposely undernmining her so-called allies at the UN, but actually giving the USA and UK false information. If this is true then perhaps the US should boycott France officially? Surely this is grounds to expell France from Nato?

14 Mr. E. Train  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:46:08pm

The French are our enemies. There is no longer any question about this.

The only question left is when the Islam-o-facists take over the place do we
A) Send in the marines to save them... AGAIN?

B) Send in the marines to save the good stuff in the museums and then leave the French to rot?

15 Powderfinger  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:46:36pm

It's slightly more credible than John Francis Kerry too, BTW.

16 hepcat  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:46:58pm

[spoken with a french accent] But of course!

17 TalkinKamel  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:47:25pm

But jeekers! John Kerry sez we should be more nuanced, like the French, and ask their permission every time we do something, and---and---
and---

/Channeling a confused Moonbat

18 Yehudit  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:47:48pm

Shallow end of the gene pool story about leftie activists. heh.

19 Barbara Skolaut  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:48:21pm

#14 Mr. E. Train - I'll take what's behind Door Number 2.

20 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:50:45pm

This pisses me off. TheWashington Times reported this about two weeks ago. Yes, I know that paper is owned by the Moonies, but I'll be damned if I can detect any of their moonbat influence on that paper.
It wasn't on the front page, but it was in the A section, maybe page 3.
And their website does not require registration. Also, their Sunday book reviews are better than the NYT and WaPo put together.

21 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:50:52pm

Ahh... la France. Zhey are zo nuanced.

What's a few anti-aircraft missiles and counterintelligence operations between allies, mon ami?

(Cozying up to Syria seems like a better idea all the time. Eliminates the middle man...)

22 PETN Sandwich  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:50:57pm

Really old news this is.

23 Sergio  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:50:59pm

Remind me again why NATO still exists.

24 The Bruce  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:51:13pm

Speaking of uranium and nukes, Newsweek has an article online which focuses on Iran, NK and, yes, Brazil.

"And arms-control specialists are increasingly alarmed by Brazil's efforts to do precisely what Iran is doing: use centrifuge cascades to enrich uranium—with a couple of key differences. Unlike Iran, Brazil has never signed the NPT's Additional Protocol, which gives expanded inspection rights to the International Atomic Energy Agency. And unlike Iran, Brazil is not letting the IAEA examine its centrifuges. If the Brazilians go through with their program, it's likely to wreck the landmark 1967 treaty that made South America a nuclear-free zone. But the White House has shown scant concern about the risk."

Whoever wins the presidency will be facing a nightmare of a world. The quiet days (they haven't been that quiet but you know what I mean) are going to be gone for a long time.

25 levi from queens  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:51:53pm

OT-- my somewhat la cubettish (but perfect in every way) wife was at a Quaker meeting this weekend where the leaders stated that Karl Rove had polled House Republicans on what the reaction to a draft would be. I told her this made no sense to me-- that the only draft backers were democrats like Rangel. She said that Rangel's move was dead, but that there was a real move for 2005 or 6 prior to a move against Syria or Iran. Again this made no sense to me as draftees are of low-value in a high-tech battlefield. Has anybody here heard or thought anything of this? Could a Karl Rove poll of Congress really go unpublicized?

26 RurouniKenshin  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:53:27pm

Ok NOW I am confused.

So... France didn't want to us to go to war, but employed an agent to forge documents which were at least a small part of the reason we decided to go to war in the first place?

/me blinks

27 Yehudit  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:55:20pm

Jeff Jarvis' op-ed on blogging and Rathergate in the NY Post. Mentions LGF.

28 twalsh  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:55:41pm

"The only question left is when the Islam-o-facists take over the place do we
A) Send in the marines to save them... AGAIN?

B) Send in the marines to save the good stuff in the museums and then leave the French to rot?"

I vote for B with an addition. The Marines must also take out all of Frances nuclear capabilities and power plants before they leave.

29 nc28105rp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:56:01pm

#13, 14 - Agree wholeheartedly

30 Yehudit  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:56:55pm
This pisses me off. TheWashington Times reported this about two weeks ago.

I saw it reported a few months ago, but it wasn't confirmed. The news in this story is that the guy actually confessed.

31 genard  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:57:18pm

The Telegraph were the first to report the names from the UN Oil for Food scandal, and, before that, the Baghdad Museum scandal. Now this. I do like these chaps.

We live in good times.

32 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:57:28pm

#25 levi from queens

Could a Karl Rove poll of Congress really go unpublicized?


Absolutely. And believe me, the Quakers would never know.

33 gbl  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:57:37pm

A little of topic but next door to France (Old Europe).

[Link: medienkritik.typepad.com...]

Troubling Election Results Rock Eastern Germany

For starters, the big winner in the Saxony state election is Germany's neo-Fascist NPD, which made the largest gains of all parties to win representation in the state parliament with between 9 and 10% of the vote. The NPD's result puts it in a virtual dead-heat with Schroeder's SPD, which also finished with a projected 9 to 10% of the vote. The NPD has called for the restoration of German lands lost in World War II and has labeled the United States the "world's arsonist."

In Brandenburg state elections, another hard-right party, the DVU, also captured just enough of the vote to win representation in that state's parliament. The DVU was already represented in Brandenburg's parliament coming into the election and has won renewed representation this time around, reclaiming just over 5% of the total vote.

34 Ian S.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 5:58:27pm

Given that Germany is headed for a combination neo-Nazi/Communist goverment, I suggest we just let them annex France.

35 The Bruce  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:00:20pm

E. Train:

The French are our enemies. There is no longer any question about this

More Americans realize that, which is why the Frogs are losing US trade at the retail level. But W has yet to formulate a policy to deal with them. The US Government hasn't done anything that I'm aware of.

36 genard  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:02:35pm

ah, grayp,

I just saw your comment that The Washington Times was first to report the French yellowcake caper.

Yes, I agree, they are a fine news organization. Their Op-Ed columnists are the best in any daily journal that I know, and their reporters are very professional. Way better than WaPo.

37 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:03:09pm

#15 Powderfinger


No no no no no...your pRon name is:

first name = your first pet (or whichever one sounds coolest)
last name = the first street you lived on (or whichever one sounds coolest)

I happen to be Gretchen Idewild.

38 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:03:40pm

#26 whatthehellisyournic?

France didn't want to us to go to war, but employed an agent to forge documents which were at least a small part of the reason we decided to go to war in the first place?


The deal is that France thought it would have time to expose the docs as forgeries. They thought they could stall for time in the U.N., expose the docs as forgeries, and embarras the U.S.

That is one of the reasons they were so certain when they assured Saddam that the U.S. would not invade.

Fucked again.

#30 Yehudit
Yes, good point.

39 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:06:04pm

#35 The Bruce

I think I know of a way to punish the French government while not all of the French.

The French have long been annoyed about "tax competition" because they lose their productive citizens to countries with lower tax rates, like the U.S. They have been so pissed about it that they have put forth proposals in international organizations like the UN and OECD. They don't want to lower their taxes because it would undermine their social welfare system. How about we encourage the immigration of the productive French? They're probably more likely to be pro-U.S., certainly if they're willing to come here, and it will certainly get the French government.

In addition, we could give tax breaks to French companies to move here and so forth.

40 Skippy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:06:41pm

#34 Ian S.

Given that Germany is headed for a combination neo-Nazi/Communist goverment, I suggest we just let them annex France.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time.

41 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:07:19pm

#36 genard

The Washington Times was first to report the French yellowcake caper.


Well, actually, I did not mean to imply they were the first, as I have no way of knowing that, only that to me this story is weeks old. But you're right, their columnists (and book reviewers) are outstanding.

42 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:09:40pm

#39 cordy

How about we encourage the immigration of the productive French?


Unicorns. Moderate Muslims.

43 GrassyKnoll_1963  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:09:48pm

Trade sanctions could be an option to punish France. The US could boycott Airbus jets. They are made in France.

44 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:10:50pm
Agent behind fake uranium documents worked for France.

lmao

45 Fondu  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:12:32pm

Slightly OT... I heard today that 3 nuclear warheads were found in Iraq... they were buried in the sand (like those 15 mirage fighters from many months back).

Has anyone seen an article about it? I cant find anything.

46 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:13:01pm

#42 grayp

LOL. They do exist though. Well, not the unicorns. Someone has to be making the croussaints.

47 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:13:41pm

#37,

I happen to be Gretchen Idewild.

Guess I'll be Rod Barron.

48 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:16:28pm

#45 Fondu

I heard today that 3 nuclear warheads were found in Iraq...


I don't know what you heard, but that wasn't it. No one is crazy enough to bury nukes in the sand.

49 The Bruce  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:18:01pm

gbl:

Troubling Election Results Rock Eastern Germany... the big winner in the Saxony state election is Germany's neo-Fascist NPD, which made the largest gains of all parties to win representation in the state parliament with between 9 and 10% of the vote...In Brandenburg state elections, another hard-right party, the DVU, also captured just enough of the vote to win representation in that state's parliament... reclaiming just over 5% of the total vote.

Expect to see more extreme politics everywhere in response to weak policies on Islamic infiltration of the West. Not to mention the "moderate" strategy of waging war at immense cost.

Today's verbal attacks by 4 Republican Senators speak to their fears of a losing the war due to W's overly cautious policies. They all termed it incompetence, but it's telling that W is getting political cover for the first time from his own party to wage a more aggressive war.

50 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:18:50pm

...oh...and I feel like saying to the newcomers (and the world)...there's a reason it's called "FRENCH PERFIDY WATCH!!!"

51 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:19:19pm
52 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:21:01pm

7 kmilbey:

per·fi·dy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pûrf-d)
n. pl. per·fi·dies
Deliberate breach of faith; calculated violation of trust; treachery: “the fink, whose perfidy was equaled only by his gall” (Gilbert Millstein).
The act or an instance of treachery.

:-)

(I'll keep reading the thread and shut up now )

53 transient  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:22:39pm
He was also said to have claimed that he had obtained the documents from an employee at the Niger embassy in Rome, before passing these to French intelligence, on whose payroll he had been since at least 2000.

Now there's an oxymoron.

(Automatic apologies to French LGFers, the exceptions that prove the rule.)

This story is too funny! The French can't even conspire right! Once again, they shoot themselves in the foot, kneecap, further upfield...

54 genard  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:24:02pm

OK, grayp,

I presumed inexctly based upon your intel; maybe I sexed your report up. Alright, the Washington Times was merely firster than the Telegraph. Still damn good show.

I like both papers and we share admiration for the Washington Times.

I can't imagine any religion crazier than the Moonies unless it is Islam, but I agree with you, Moon's ownership of the WTimes is indetectable. I do wish they were free of that man though.

55 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:24:36pm

I saw a cartoon awhile back. It showed to Iraqis, presumably Ba'athists, with one saying to the other "We can relax. Tony Blair has decided to bomb France."

56 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:25:51pm

OT, and excuse the double post on another thread:

DRUDGE stating on radio now, Secret service is pursuing individuals who wish to do harm to the president. He said this in the context of a story about a LLL mother of a killed GI (who is not under investigation) who expressed the desire to kill the president, implying that violent LLLs are afoot planning to assasinate GWB.

All ears open for LLL plotters...

(Incidentally, about three times in the last month democrats have made thinly veiled threats that violence might ensue if Bush won--of course they're careful to say they wouldn't be involved but lots of others might be. These people are scary. Protect your second ammendment.)

57 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:25:55pm

Sorry, "two Iraqis" not "to Iraqis". PIMF

58 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:27:01pm

#1 LSD

You just reminded me...when did anyone see or hear a word about hambergler Sandy Berger and Tereseeesa Heinz kerry?

60 The Bruce  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:28:46pm

Newsweek has an interesting article called "War Gaming the Mullahs" online at

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

It contained anonymous quotes from an Israeli and a US source, both of whom gave negative assessments of a pre-emptive strike by either country, saying that we're going to have to live with a nuclear Iran.

I hope it strategic deception. I hope.

61 Protagonist  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:28:50pm

Drudge just said on his Sunday night radio store that he is preparing a "developing" story on how the Secret Service is investigating a plot to assasinate the president.

Unlike some MSM lapdogs, I don't think Drudge is constantly full of crap, but I'll take it seriously when he decide to put it on print . . . er, bandwidth. Still, it is ominious. When this frightening hatred of the President fails to win elections or sway popular opinion, some of these nuts may decide to protest war and violence by shooting a guy in the head.

Of course, you can defuse any LLL nuts bent on assasination with two simple words: "President Cheney".

62 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:31:58pm

Protagonist (#61)

Of course, you can defuse any LLL nuts bent on assasination with two simple words: "President Cheney".

OMG, is that funny! LOL.

63 Fondu  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:33:15pm

Hmm, this is strange. It seems to be old info. Now I am wondering if what I heard was the old, false story being repeated or something new. Well, I guess that I will wait and see.

Old Story (July 21)

Uranium Removed (July 27)

64 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:33:35pm

zulu...how are you tonight?

65 Smug Monkey  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:35:16pm

#37 Sarah D.


Freddie Fairfax

Heh, I may start using that...

66 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:35:33pm
67 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:35:39pm
68 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:36:31pm
69 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:37:04pm

lol

ploome

I guess we're not lovers anymore eh?

Oh well...we'll always have Karachi.

70 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:37:57pm
71 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:38:09pm

Fwoggie legs for dinner, anyone? Their goose is not just gonna get cooked, it's gonna get charred.

72 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:38:13pm

Andrew B., cool :-) You?

73 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:38:30pm
74 promoguy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:40:46pm

OT Completely

Unfortunately, I have to hear in the background that washed up Gary Shandling host the Emmy's and in between talk down conservatives like they were idiots. Complet D**khead.

I can't wait till Nov when they have a mass suicide at Barb's house in Malibu. Think I'll go and watch.

75 BrooklynJon  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:40:52pm

I always thought that regime change in Iraq was a great idea, but that it could have waited until we finished our re-re-invasion of France. Now I know that I was right. If only...

76 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:41:42pm

#56 A Noble Vision, #61 Protagonist

Here are the articles, and I can see why the Secret Service is involved...since the second article, from a vile site, was posted in May, how this woman ever got near Mrs. Bush scares me..she should have been investigated in May, damn it...Police dismiss charges against woman who interrupted first lady

An Interview with Sue Niederer

What is your response to the recent evidence that this war was waged on the basis of "misinformation"?

I wanted to rip the president's head off. Curse him, yell at him, call him a self righteous bastard and a lot of other words. I think if I had him in front of me I would shoot him in the groined area. Let him suffer. And just continue shooting him there. Put him through misery, like he's doing to everyone else. He doesn't deserve any better

Are you worried that Bush could win in November?

Extremely concerned. If this country allows him, we are the fools. We deserve everything we get or do not get from him. We are allowing him to get away with anything he wants to do. He flat out lied to us, killing our troops. He doesn't face the fallen family. If this is what we reelect, we deserve everything we get.

Are traumatized soldiers getting the help they need?

I have friends who have children in IraqThis is taking one heck of a toll upon the men. I've heard this many times from many friends. It's the same thing--that they become mentally unstable. He's not only a danger to himself, he's a danger to the men in his platoon. This is what they don't care about, the affect it can have on men fighting.

Had you been politically active before?

No, I'm not a political person. I vote for the person, I don't vote for the party

What would you say to a young person who was thinking about joining the military? Get whatever these recruiters tell you in writing and make them sign it and take it to an attorney. And make copies, lots of copies. You've got to remember ­ the recruiters have a certain number they must meet for their recruit allotment. To them it's a number.

If you could speak to Bush or members of Congress who support this war, what would you tell them?

Trade places with the troops over there now. You go over there. You send your children, husbands, wives. Let them come back in a coffin. Let me know what you think. You aren't worth being called president. You're not even worth being called Mr. Face me, talk to me the victim of your war. But you don't have the guts to do that...

see rest of article

She is, IMHO, a danger. It hurts to see that her son is dead, but she in a menace. Drudge is spot on...these articles are on Drudge Report 2004™

77 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:43:11pm

How often do I link to my site?

I usually post once a day to my Metaphors...

(BTW if you don't like them...I really can give a shit ploome)

This past post was a RARE occasion that I did link to my site...

I am not a "link whore"...I work hard to keep a relevant and interesting blog.

Who made you blog GOD?

Listen i am not here to make enemies...I am here to read and contribute...

I try to contribute ORIGINAL WORK.

78 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:45:40pm

Oh right sorry "ploome" you prefer 4 year old boys...

Right...man how could I forget...geez

Enuff.

I end this now...

So let it be written...so let it be done.

79 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:46:14pm

Oh, for heaven's sake. The Secret Service is always investigating plots to assassinate the sitting President. That is part of its mandate.

Fondu
The first story is obviously rumor perpetrated by people who know nothing about nukes. The second story was widely acknowledged. I don't see that the two are related.

#60 the Bruce

we're going to have to live with a nuclear Iran.


Well, first of all, it's Newsweek. Second, why do you think we sold them those new fighters (she said, frantically looking for the links she knows she has somewhere)

zulubaby, I think you gave me the original, do you still have it?

80 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:46:18pm

I think I might be recording a madman right now...

81 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:46:46pm

Protagonist (#61)

ive been using that line for over two years it definately works and for a bonus the LLL usually gets real red in the face and occasionally blow steam out their ears.

82 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:50:02pm

BTW zulu I feel great...

thanks for asking...:)

Been workin hard...(I work on Saturdays + Sundays)

Hate working weekends.

Bought a new skateboard the other day. Going to go skate tomorrow night...

Can't wait.

83 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:50:43pm

#65 Smug Monkey

Ohhh, I LIKE it Freddie!

84 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:50:48pm

#60 Ploome Hineni

You are absolutely right ..Andrew B, someone called you on this last night. If your blog is as good as you think, people will go to it. It isn't the least bit funny anymore to post false links that go to your blog.

You have been doing this for over a month, I think? Post away, as a poster, and if you must advertise your blog, then pay Charles, and let it be a blog ad. Fair is fair.

85 one-truth-poney  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:51:39pm

John Frenchie Kerry...


What a surprise he would align himself with the country that is the chief America basher over the last 4 decades..

I hear if he wins he is gonna make Paris the capital of the US

86 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:52:44pm

grayp, which link do you need, remind me please ...

87 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:53:07pm

#39 cordy --

The French have long been annoyed about "tax competition" because they lose their productive citizens to countries with lower tax rates, like the U.S. They have been so pissed about it that they have put forth proposals in international organizations like the UN and OECD. They don't want to lower their taxes because it would undermine their social welfare system. How about we encourage the immigration of the productive French? They're probably more likely to be pro-U.S., certainly if they're willing to come here, and it will certainly get the French government.

The US isn't all that competitive in the corporate tax department. Corporate tax rate here is just about double the world average (35% vs. 16-18%). Plus corporate portion of Social Security (7.65% of wages), and numerous other biz costs. Why do you think so many jobs are being lost to other countries, and why are so many companies restructuring or moving offshore? US workers are the most productive in the world, but total costs are not competitive. Total costs for a US worker are wages + 35-50% (depending on state & "benes"). Our corporate costs are only slightly below those of Sweden, Germany, France.

So French companies which relocated would likely go to a cheaper country. Plus French workers are less productive than Americans. And we already have about 18 million more workers than jobs, and are adding 2 million [net] new US-born workers per year to the laborforce -- excluding all immigrants, legal & illegal.

Moving French companies here is unlikely, and moving French workers here is counter-productive.

88 Protagonist  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:54:33pm

#62 Zulubaby

Actually, it's an old political ploy: Always choose a successor who's not as competent, nice, or as charismatic as you, so that (1) people will want to keep you alive as long as possible (be it politically or existentially), and (2) people will remember you in a better light, comparing your reign to the "decline" your successor causes.

The trick dates back to Roman times: Augustus choosing the prickly Tiberius as successor, and Tiberius choosing the insane Caligula as his succesor.

89 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:55:58pm

#65 Smug Monkey

I lost the address to that oh so sane LLL site. Had to reboot... what was it?

90 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:56:32pm

(Hey ploome - do I have your PERMISSION to post this?)

From Internet :: Haganah

Network Solutions: "Your laws do not apply to us"

Keep in mind as you read the following that A: Network Solutions is an American corporation, and that B: both Hizballah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are designated by the US government as Terrorist organizations.

In response to reports of Network Solutions providing services to Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a current customer of Network Solutions wrote to complain, and a representative of the company responded as follows:

On November 1, 1999, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth-Circuit ruled that Network Solutions has no responsibility or duty to police the rights of trademark owners concerning domain names.

If the domain owner in question is conducting criminal activity we would ask you to defer to either the police or the proper authorities.

Thank you for choosing Network Solutions.

Sincerely,

Llewellyn001
Network Solutions Customer Support
This is a classic case of corporate irresponsibility Internet-style.

First they say they are not responsible for content even though the issue isn't content, per se, and include mentions of [gasp!] a court decision that has nothing to do with the nature of the complaint.

Then they say "call the cops" knowing that websites cannot, as a rule, be shut down by the police.

Finally, they completely fail to grasp the point that *they* are the ones who are failing to uphold their own legal obligations, given that at some level they are receiving funds from and providing services to designated terrorist organizations and/or representative of terrorist organizations.

And if you think their relationship with PIJ is bad, consider this, from the whois record of nasrallah.net, official site of Hizballah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah:

Hassan Nasrallah
ATTN: NASRALLAH.NET
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA. 20172-0447
That's a direct client relationship with not just a designated terrorist organization, but also with a designated terrorist.www.treas.gov:

91 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:58:13pm

zulubaby, we sold a plane to the Israelis with a range to reach Iran. I've got over 800 links bookmarked, but I am certain you posted the first link I copied. If I could remember the designation of the friggin' plane, I'd google, but I don't. We just delivered the first one a couple months ago, I think.

And Andrew B.,

Shut up. Your blog sucks.

92 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:59:03pm

#84 NY Nana

I donate money to Charles...

(not in awhile though...Charles I'll make it up to you...get your paypal account ready...LOL)

93 kmilby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:59:06pm

#52 Orbit Rain

Thank You!

I am feeling better now.

What a most appropriate word at that.

Mr. Johnson, you are a real smarty. No wonder I feel so much smarter reading your words of wisdom.

Thanks!

I am a Big Fan! I say that about Dennis Miller too. I hope it does not cheapen the whole thing.

94 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:59:38pm

Can't have a thread on the perfidious French without my official curse:

Salope Marianne, putain de merde!

95 Snake Plissken  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 6:59:57pm

#37

I don't think that formula works for me:

Tiny Acorn

96 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:00:49pm

#76 NY Nana

Hi, how are you?

I think that woman is not being investigated, just written off as a grieving mom. Drudge implied that there is some organized leftist group afoot with an active assassination plot.

GrayP. Of course the secret service investigates potential assassination plots. This sounds a little different.

The story will break later, says Drudge. He must have promissed his source to delay until their newspaper's deadline is met.

97 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:00:51pm

#89 Sarah D. 9/19/2004 08:55PM PST

if you are using microcrap try clicking the history button

98 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:01:57pm

wow...I am really loved in here...

To all those that love me so much...I'll leave you with this.

I hope you get the point...

Love ya

99 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:03:16pm
100 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:03:18pm

grayp, still looking ...

Was it the F-15I jets?

101 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:03:39pm

#97 JimmyTheClaw

Not. Mine has no history button...hence why I can't go back in history. The ONE thing I dislike about it!

But, other than that I love my browser!!!

Thanks for the tip.

102 Smug Monkey  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:03:55pm

#83 Sarah D.

Heh, perhaps a movie deal is in the works?

If we're playing by the "first street lived on" rules, it would actually be Freddie Thoman.

Equally smarmy.

8 )

103 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:06:38pm

Andrew B

I apologize. I was harsh and you don't deserve that. I'm sorry.

104 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:06:54pm

Oh c'mon, Andrew B. is a sweetheart and you don't have to click on his links.

105 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:07:07pm
106 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:07:08pm

#87 ibn guru

My main point was about what individuals pay in taxes, not corporations. The French proposals I was referring to involve things like requiring a French person to always pay French taxes, even if they become a citizen of another country.

And while the average French worker may be less productive than the average American worker, I was talking about importing people who are not average, which is what is annoying the French. People who have special skills, education, etc. If the French person knows they will have to work 40 hours a week and get less time off and they are still willing to come, then they are more hard working than most French seem to be.

And there are areas of the economy which have a shortage of people--teachers, nurses, engineers (although with engineers I have heard it is in part because companies hire cheaper engineers from overseas). And we still have a low unemployment rate. I doubt importing a few thousand talented French people would hurt Americans in any way, but it would probably be noticeable in France, which is already losing talented workers and which has a population less than a fourth of the U.S.

107 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:07:09pm

gray & zulubaby,

Both the F-15I and the F-16I can reach Iran from Israel. Unfortunately, it'll take more than planes to do a thorough job on the mullah's bomb program.

108 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:07:11pm

andrew b just put your website in the home page block like i do. only thing mine goes to a nonexistant page i just use the text for a signature. see easy no prob why put up links outside of the topic when charles lets you link every time you post

109 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:08:43pm

#102 Smug Monkey

Well, by the strict rules I would be Blacky Idewild. I like Gretchen better.

It could be Trouble Idewild. Or Gretchen Springstreet. Or Petunia Holliday.

Many options!

110 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:09:40pm

#99 ploome hineni

Real mature...make personal attacks about my skateboarding...

Very creative...

Man you're good...

111 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:09:44pm

song_and_dance_man, I do but the sound is off. What's up?

112 Techie  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:10:05pm

My pr0n name is:

Tiger Springs...

That's slighty arousing...

113 promoguy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:11:31pm

#111

I had made an OT comment above that it's conservative bash night live and delayed in Los Angeles.

Lead by the washed up Gary Shandling

114 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:12:05pm
115 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:12:05pm

grayp...

I accept.

Like I said before...I am not here to make enemies.

We are ALL here to keep on track on what's happening around the world.

No PLAYA HATIN'

LOL

And thanks zulu...you are my shinning star...

in the midst of such darkness...

116 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:12:24pm
117 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:12:51pm

#100 z'babe

no, but close enough for me to google
It's the F16I
Thanks...

118 Luigi  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:13:09pm

My understanding of the yellow-cake incident is the lefties were darkly hinting this (fraudulent) information was provided to the Bush Administration by the neocon cabal of Zionists for the purpose of driving the US into war with Iraq to protect Israeli interests. Who wudda thought it was the Itals working for the French?

It wasn't just the leftists who were ankle-biting the neocons over this. Pat Buchanan and his ultra-nationalist right-wingers were happy to jump on board any train that promised to fill it's boxcars with Jews.

Google yellow cake and neoconservatives for some bedtime reading.

119 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:13:27pm

#112 Techie

I like it! Better than your real name no?

Take it as a road trip name.

120 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:13:59pm

Andrew B, anytime babe.

121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:15:15pm

Damn pron names, does the pet have to be your first one or the first one you picked? Big difference between Daisy Hill and Bully Hill.

122 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:15:37pm

#98 Andrew B. 9/19/2004 09:01PM PST

lol thanks for the link i just sent it to a few friends

123 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:15:59pm

zulu...we should marry and move to Israel and have an army of children together...or maybe we should just keeping writing like this...and pretend as if I didn't just sound REALLY CREEPY and weird...

Oops too late...

124 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:17:09pm

Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo (#107)

Right, that's my understanding of it too.

125 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:17:17pm

#121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Take whichever combination sounds the (as Smug Monkey put it) the most smarmy!

126 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:18:40pm

#102 Smug Monkey

that rule makes me cho cho san major [not sure how to spell cats name]

127 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:18:40pm

For my main man JimmyTheClaw...anything

unless it involves animals and rubber objects bigger than a Q-tip...oh and jars and jars of vaseline...lol

Ummm...yeah...not too creepy...

Bwwwhahahahahahahah

(Editor's Note*-Andrew B. has officially lost his mind)

128 Luigi  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:19:27pm

116 song_and_dance_man

Jon Stewart lives in an alternate universe. When you watch his show you would think the country is 99.7% behind Kerry and against Bush. Where does he get that audience? From the DNC? Honestly, from his content and his audience, you'd think the entire country was of one mind for Kerry.

Victor Davis Hanson remarked that he enjoys watching Jon Stewart but he can never tell when Stewart is serious and when he is joking. Me either. Stewart was born with that stupid sh*t-eating smirk on his face. God forbid you should be watching Stewart's show when something important happens in the world and you have to get the news from him first.

129 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:20:19pm

Andrew B., bring me the rock and I'll think about it.

130 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:20:20pm

#126 JimmyTheClaw

Very good! You can be our Asian specialist!!!

LOL!

131 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:21:04pm

#106 cordy

The French proposals I was referring to involve things like requiring a French person to always pay French taxes, even if they become a citizen of another country.


You're kidding. And would you clarify for me please - are you in France? USA? Someplace else?

132 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:21:46pm

Andrew B. FLYING tonight.. !

133 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:22:00pm

zulu...do you like Yellow, Pink, Blue, White or Black Diamonds? I can afford a ring that's about 4 Karats...is that enuff?

134 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:22:39pm

BTW, I don't know how to post it, but I saw a photo of Barbara Streisand at the Emmys tonight on the wire... and she was a big, fat HOG.

Shockingly so.

135 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:23:42pm

#130 Sarah D. 9/19/2004 09:20PM PST

the cat was siamese me well lessee, my fathers family was from the region of hungary and my mom was jewish. sooo like i tell others when asking my ethnicity that makes me a hungry jew

136 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:24:06pm

#118 Luigi

Yeah, I remember the lefties darkly hinting that it was Israel. Have you read this guy?

He is one of the ones. If you want an example of how a tenured professor churns out conspiracy theories based on gossip, denial of inconvenient facts, ignorance of other facts, and wild extrapolations from the day's news, he is your man.

137 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:24:10pm

Andrew B., pink or yellow and make sure it's flawless. You should consult ploome before making any diamond purchases. She knows her stuff.

138 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:24:17pm

lazytart...I am always on point, though wildly off my rocker sometimes...but that's life...this is Walgreens.

139 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:25:53pm

cordy (#136)

Juan Cole is vile. He's right up there with that pig from CounterPunch.

140 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:26:08pm

#135 JimmyTheClaw

Doesn't matter, by your pRon name you are Asian!!!

141 promoguy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:26:37pm

lazytart

If you're talking about the one of her in pink, just saw it online...Her next movie should be Fat In Pink

142 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:26:43pm

Well, I am on my rocker, but rarely on point.

Call it even!

143 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:26:57pm

#107 Craig

it'll take more than planes to do a thorough job on the mullah's bomb program.


One thing I've wondered about. These planes are designated fighters, not bombers.
More than planes? Well, they have to be bombed, and I can't think of another delivery system.

144 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:27:39pm

Promoguy, no kidding- did she look like Ms. Rotunda or what?

145 Billy Hank  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:27:51pm

#39, #87 - We had better get prepared for tough economic war if Bush wins. Soros has a record of attacking national economies. France at the UN has already proved an Iago to Colin Powell's noble Othello. The yellowcake forgeries were an effort to perserve their own economic interests.

(Quick aside - can anyone recall forgery scandals from the right? I seem to remember Segretti did something with Muskie but that's all that springs immediately to mind.)

I met with some folks from the Slovakian government on a tour to observe the American election. Many are deeply concerned about the leftist NGOs that come into their country demanding that the Slovaks adopt certain policies as a condition of aid. The NGO economic muscle is huge in Central Europe economies. Part of their agenda is to undermine or destroy capitalism in favor of statism. The Slovaks that were in the current government characterized the NGOs as anti-American. They also were deeply concerned about Muslim inroads in Europe.

Bush will face even sterner, more difficult challenges in the second term. Of course, if we elect Kerry, we can just accept sharia, pay our military budget to Islamic charities, and then all would be peaceful.

146 Sarah D.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:28:02pm

#134 lazytart

These are the only pics I could find quickly:

Babs

What the hell is she doing?

Good night all!

147 Luigi  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:28:08pm

136 cordy

That's why I pay five thousand a month to send 2 kids to college. So morons like that can have too little to do.

148 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:28:42pm

zulu...anything I buy...is...(Andrew stay confident) flawless. (whew...you made it through that one)

Would you like me to mail it to you...LOL

Or do you want me to ring your doorbell in 2 minutes...

I mean no...I am not standing outside your house RIGHT NOW...

Just kidding...don't get scared...I'm in NYC.

149 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:28:44pm

#131 grayp

Actually I'm not kidding. I should have provided links in my first two posts on this. For right now here is this that I just pulled up. I'll go find other links.

I'm an American in the U.S.

150 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:29:20pm

#106 cordy --

Got the point the first time. I think there are far better ways to tick off the fwoggies.

The MSM -- and gov't stats -- are deceptive. Our "low unemployment rate" is pure fiction as it ignores all new entrants to the laborforce, re-entrants to the force, people unemployed a long time, people "working" temp or "self-employed" or "freelance" while really seeking full-time employment, etc.

"Shortages" in various fields are also pure fiction. Teachers are leaving the field in droves due to overcrowded classrooms (exclusively due to immigration), low pay, physical danger, etc. Ditto nurses: hospitals want to recruit cheap Filippino, etc. nurses and pay them aides' wages. Prospective doctors, engineers, etc. are being shut out of colleges and grad schools because schools recruit higher-tuition paying foreigners. Med schools get fed $$ for each foreign student enrolled; American citizens get student loans (mean = $125,000) and can't afford to work in low-paying rural areas because it isn't enough money to repay the student loans!

I stopped buying anything French long ago for their lack of support for the War on Terror. Apparently many people feel the same. That has hurt them. There must be plenty of ways to "payback" the fwench without exacerbating our own difficulties.

151 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:29:49pm
152 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:30:15pm

My husband calls these flapjack titties.

Oy.

153 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:30:37pm

#140 Sarah D. 9/19/2004 09:26PM PST

dammit now that peter gabriel song keeps going through my head [just turning japanes] do you think so
now drink i say drink

154 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:32:06pm

lazy

Those ARE FLAP JACKS

155 promoguy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:32:15pm

More like she'd fill a rotunda. Listen it's been a bad year for the libs...probably drove her to take her misery out on food.

Which reminds me that wife and I were on Montana Blvd in Santa Monica (if anyone knows where that is). Decided to have a coffee and some pastry and who was there sitting behind us but Maria Shriver, Mama Eunice and her brother Bobby. Made me feel good to be close to Joe and Rose's kid.

156 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:33:02pm

#106 cordy --

it's ibu, not "ibn" -- bahasa indonesia for "lady." I believe the arabic term you use means "son of"???

157 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:33:11pm

#128 Luigi


116 song_and_dance_man

Jon Stewart lives in an alternate universe. When you watch his show you would think the country is 99.7% behind Kerry and against Bush. Where does he get that audience?

They're "stoned slackers", according to Bill O'Reillys demographic researchers. O'Reily asked Stewart about it last week on the Factor (citing some Nielsen research I think, that said 80something % of The Daily Show's audience is young, male, and inebriated with smoke or drink), and Stewart seemed a little surprised at first but agreed thats who watches him.

Stewart is very unfunny. He's propped up by some very funny "reporters" on the show. Steven Colbert is very good.

158 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:34:37pm

Here it is.

I'm in a catty mood tonight.

159 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:34:47pm

Has anyone been following this or is it just me...

Looks like a clean sweep coming up in November.

And this site is run by a self proclaimed Demoncrat.

His stats are fair and balanced, but his links are not...

160 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:34:59pm

i just googled my lgf name and got hits on all my posts [kinda creeps me out] but otoh i can go see what i posted on those nights that my short term memory lost the post

161 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:36:01pm

Zulubaby and Sarah, yours are better.

Dammit.

I've never seen her look so, well, round.

162 Fondu  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:37:38pm

#79 grayp 9/19/2004 08:46PM PST

Yea, I was a bit boggled by what I heard. I had to drive out of town today and was listening to those AM radio talk shows at the far end of the dial. I just posted the links since what I heard was probably that stuff from many months ago (rolls eyes).

163 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:37:45pm

#156 ibu guru

Sorry! I didn't mean to call you "son of" anything :-)

164 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:38:27pm

#159 Andrew

Yes, I have been following it for some time. The "projected final map" is very interesting. Of course, if you don't check the dates of the last poll on the states, at times it can be deceiving.

165 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:38:31pm

lazytart, I posted this for you but on the wrong thread!

166 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:39:56pm

#149 cordy

Ok, got it, thanks. I can't provide a link, because it was embedded in an unrelated article that I did not bookmark, but this is the same impetus (brought up in the UN, I think - surprise, suprise) that wants to tax ALL EMAIL TRANSACTIONS. That, I think, is the same rationale for the UN wanting to 'control' the internet.

167 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:41:07pm

Andrew B., if you think you're scary, consider that I have a face mask on and yes, it's really that colour. LOL.

168 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:42:46pm

#145 Billy Hank --

Donald Segretti wrote the "Muskie letter." Forget what it said, but it was so bad that Muskie broke down and cried when confronted with it. It was the crying that cost him the election, though. Segretti & pals called themselves "Ratfuckers" and got their start in college politics.

169 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:45:21pm

zulu...you're HOT

I thought you would be a bit thinner...LOL

j/k

You know what...I'm going to pamper myself...and take a bath and shower.

Thanks for the idea...:)

170 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:46:22pm

Zulubaby,

That picture is RIGHT AT HOME on THAT thread.

Bwahahahahahaaa!!!

(Wouldn't it be fun to have an all grrrls LGF spend the night party?)

171 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:49:05pm

#166 grayp

I'm still looking for other articles that are concise and not detailed explanations of the various proposed laws, but there is also the proposed Tobin tax (UN). That gets brought up every few years.

France is at the forefront in pushing many of these, though Tobin himself was a Yale professor.

172 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:49:29pm

Iranian arrested outside of Israeli Embassy in Azerbaijan for VIDEOTAPING the Embassy

Wonder who sent him...must be those pesky Hindus or Buddhists...or even Animists...

Damn them...

173 sli  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:49:44pm

Everybody go take a look at Drudge.

CBS News Concludes It Was Misled on National Guard Memos, Network Officials Say


[Link: www.drudgereport.com...]

174 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:49:58pm

Andrew B., a bath and a shower? And I thought I was clean! LOL. Enjoy.

lazytart, we sometimes have pajama parties over at zorkie's place, complete with halvah ice-cream and all.

175 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:50:37pm

Andrew B.

That's the best electoral vote site I've seen.

I like this graph: poll trends of Democratic stronghold NY

Hillary has been strangely silent.

176 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:50:51pm

Lazy Tart

{{{Lazy Tart & son}}}

Please let us know how your son does today!

Totally OT, but after the hateful ted rall 'cartoon', this is news that makes the hurt of what that pos rall did even worse...but at the same time, G-d bless his memory, and his team:Cardinals honor Tillman's memory

The Arizona Cardinals honored Pat Tillman on Sunday in an emotional halftime ceremony that featured the fallen player's widow and other members of his family.

In her first public comments since her husband's death, Marie Tillman thanked all who had supported the family.

"'It really helps us knowing that his spirit and memory live on in all of you," she said to the rousing cheers of the crowd.

She was joined at midfield by Tillman's brother, Richard, and his parents. Cardinals vice president Michael Bidwill presented Tillman's widow with a framed Pat Tillman jersey.

A giant No. 40 jersey was unfurled in Sun Devil Stadium, where Tillman played as a star linebacker for Arizona State and an overachieving safety for the Cardinals.

Tillman left a lucrative contract in the NFL in 2002 to join the Army Rangers with his brother, Kevin. He was killed April 22 in the Khost province of Afghanistan, the first NFL player to die in combat since the Vietnam War. He was 27.

A military investigation concluded he was likely killed mistakenly by fire from other U.S. troops.

In a video message on the giant screen at the stadium, President Bush praised Tillman and others who have died in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq.

"As much as Pat Tillman loved competing on the football field, he loved America even more," Bush said. "...Courageous and humble, a loving husband and son, a devoted brother and a fierce defender of liberty. Pat Tillman will always be remembered and honored in our country."

Every NFL player wore a decal bearing Tillman's No. 40 this weekend. The Cardinals will wear it all season. No. 40 commemorative pins were distributed to everyone who came to the game.

I see that President Bush made a beautiful statement, and he is, after all, the Commander in Chief...I do not see a word from the /Vietnam hero/...

177 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:51:53pm

CBS Talks With Suspected Source of Documents

CBS News plans to issue a statement, perhaps as early as today, acknowledging that it was misled on the purported National Guard memos the network used to charge that President Bush received favored treatment 30 years ago.
178 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:52:07pm

Zulubaby,

I followed the link, and it told me I suck! LOL! Then it gave me directions far too complicated to follow... think I can check back in the morning. Ha!

179 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:52:18pm

zulu...I am Jewish...

I keep Kosher in ALL AREAS...lol

Sorry for the Jewish Porno Geography...couldn't resist.

Good night all...for now...

bwaahahahahhaha

no really...I am AUDI 5000.

180 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:52:20pm
181 Smug Monkey  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:52:34pm

#109 Sarah D.

Sorry, I missed the post about that LLL site... I'm at work attempting to look like I'm diligently working.

Here is that site if you haven't gotten it already.

-Brian

182 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:53:27pm

from drudge

After days of expressing confidence about the documents used in a 60 MINUTES report that raised new questions about President Bush's National Guard service, CBS News officials have grave doubts about the authenticity of the material, network officials said last night, the NEW YORK TIMES is reporting in Monday runs. Developing...
183 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:54:36pm

NYNana,

Thanks you! {{back at ya}}...

The MRI is just being SCHEDULED tomorrow... I'll have two to three weeks to drive myself crazy!!!

184 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:54:37pm

lazytart, I told zorkie you were coming over for ice-cream! LOL. Night sweetie, sleep tight.

185 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:55:54pm

#173 sli

Oh sure, Rather goes and talks to Burnett and then *gasp* our perfect, trustworhty source is suddenly a LLL.
And now, sooo sorry.
Result: Everyone drops it and the link to the Kerry camp.

186 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:56:09pm

Night, ZB!

187 Andrew B.  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:57:07pm

Oh BTW...

We're being watched...LGF Watch

Luckily we have a brave soul who is watching the watchers...LGF WATCH WATCH

LOL

188 Smug Monkey  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:57:52pm

#126 JimmyTheClaw


Lol... Cho Cho?


I may have to revisit this thread when I have more time and whip up a pr0n DVD cover using LGF'er porno names.


Cho cho... heh.

189 Orbit Rain  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:59:09pm
182 Orbit Rain

obviously posting that makes me a Karl Rove operative, you lefties should never believe anything I say from now on...feel free to call me every name in the book...like I give a shit.

:D

190 sli  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:59:49pm

#185 glwing

How right you are.

191 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 7:59:53pm
192 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:00:38pm

#163 cordy --

Apology accepted :-)

193 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:03:52pm

CBS will reveal memos were forged by tomorrow, says Drudge on radio.

Ok, Dan, this is like pulling teeth. Who forged the memos. And don't tell us some senior citizen nutcase in Texas, okay?. Which pimple-faced Kerry/DNC lackey cobbled these together Dan?

194 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:03:59pm

#190 sli

LOL---hope not tooo right. Typed Burnett instead of Burkett. Long day.

I hope no one lets this drop. Saw this coming the second it was reported that Rather was going to Texas.
C-BS only took it this long, trying like mad to find someone, anyone to say the memos were real because they cound not give up their source---Kerry camp.
The AP article states without doubt that Kerry camp had these days or possibly a week or more before C-BS.

195 newsonterr  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:04:20pm

A Nuclear Terror Attack is coming soon - The only question is when and where precisely?

The nuclear clock is ticking close to doomsday. This is no panic statement. The 9/11 Commission has said that the greatest failure that led to the 9/11 attacks was "a failure of imagination". Today we are witnessing a similar "failure of imagination" about the oncoming nuclear terror attack. If the US administration does not want to launch a pre-emptive strike on Iranian nuclear facilities before the elections, the least it can do is to declare that a nuclear terror attack on the USA (or any other allied country) will be met by a severe nuclear response. This can at least deter the Islamofascist desperadoes and make them think twice of the devastation a US retaliation will cause, before they release the nuclear capability which they already have acquired.

[Link: www.newsonterror.com...]

196 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:05:13pm

#183 Lazy Tart

2 weeks??? Oy...but as long as the news is good...you have so many people praying for your precious son, and for you and your husband.

Be very stern, and ask them ever so nicely if they could at least give you a hint of some sort...I can empathize with you...and also can be a 5' 1 1/2 terror when it comes to this kind of thing...

197 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:07:17pm

grayp

Here is another snippet:

But the prize for the worst U.N. idea probably belongs to the proposal to give governments permanent taxing rights over emigrants. You see, the U.N. thinks it’s unfair when talented people leave high-tax socialist nations and move to places such as America. But since even the U.N. realizes it would be unacceptable to prohibit emigration, the bureaucrats are instead proposing to let governments tax income earned in other nations.

This scheme is a direct attack on American interests because of our high levels of immigration -- particularly the well-educated portion of the immigrant population. For instance, if a doctor from the Caribbean moves to America, his home government would get to tax income he earns here. If a Chinese entrepreneur moves to Silicon Valley, the Chinese government would get to tax his U.S. income.

Foreign-born workers in the United States, including both citizens and resident aliens, earn nearly $600 billion each year. Imagine the damage if foreign governments could tax that income. Even if they imposed only a 15 percent tax rate, foreign governments could drain nearly $100 billion from our economy.

From capmag


They can't get us militarily so they'll get us economically.

198 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:09:04pm

Lazy Tart,
Didn't you mention as symtoms clumsiness the other night and that your son was 8? Or am I mistaken?

199 TenRing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:10:06pm

OT - Too early to worry about Mr. Bush's successor - in 2008?

Can anyone point to such a discussion? Thanks.

200 Cornholio  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:11:11pm

I already have a p0rn name.

201 SmithL  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:11:27pm

Sure is a lot of B S on this thread tonight. It almost makes me want to break into song:

People, people who need people . . .

Sorry, I won't do that again.

202 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:12:35pm

Have y'all seen this?

203 placebo  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:13:13pm

everyone check DRUDGE.

204 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:13:30pm

RE: RatherGate

That must have been a hoot of a meeting that Dan had with that raving loon Burkett yesterday. Big laughs and big smiles. ;-)

But I'll bet that Danny will stick with the "fake but accurate" evidence excuse that he used to get handed by the rogue cops and corrupt prosecutors he used to investigate for "60 Minutes". Funny how he turned into one of them in his old age.

205 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:13:32pm

#199 Ten Ring

I've thought about---a certain former NY mayor comes to mind ;)

206 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:15:50pm

HI, yes, he has clumsiness; however, this is longstanding.. he has developmental delay, fine and gross motor problems, etc. Nothing new, but probably related to his wandering eye...

The dr. said she is NOT worried enough to get us in sooner to the MRI... if she WERE, we would've been there Friday night!

He had one clear MRI when he was four- he's almost seven now.

My feeling is that the wandering eye's muscle has gotten "tired" and is not working anymore.. which means patching the good eye to bring the other one up to speed.

Thank goodness it's "talk like a pirate month"!

207 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:15:57pm

#197 cordy
I'm going to have to start a folder on this. After I nuke Turtle Bay.

One thing I just don't get. How does the UN think they can impose taxes on U.S. citizens? I think there are US properties that the UN, under some whacko environmental law has jurisdiction over, and that certainly got in under the radar - but I am comfortable predicting that the first hint Americans get that they are being taxed by the UN is the first time the world understands what unilaterism really means.

I'm off to bed. Thanks for your posts, cordy, they got me focused.

208 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:17:20pm

NY Nana,

I'm five feet tall, too! My grandmother (4'11") says dynamite comes in small packages!

209 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:17:34pm

#150 ibu guru

We'll just agree to disagree :-) I could say that I'm sure the Euro unemployment stats are flawed too and that I know the U.S. standards of living are quite above Europe's, I'm sure you have good counterarguments as well.

That said, I know continental Euro-types do see the U.S. as serious economic competition and a threat to their way of life and seek to constrain us. And I think that they see us that way because we are, in fact, economically stronger than them and that if we wanted we could cause them problems.

210 TenRing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:17:49pm

#203 placebo

everyone check DRUDGE.

Doncha lovit? So there is a cluebat being wielded at the Tiffany network...

211 grayp  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:18:57pm
unilaterism

Assuming I could spell the freakin' word, of course.
Or not.

212 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:19:11pm

#203 Placebo

Drudge has it as being in al-nyt, but it is not..the Monday online version is up. However, the WaPo, which shows how far blather and the dhummies have fallen:CBS Talks With Suspected Source of Documents

CBS News plans to issue a statement, perhaps as early as today, acknowledging that it was misled on the purported National Guard memos the network used to charge that President Bush received favored treatment 30 years ago.

The statement would represent a huge embarrassment for the network, which insisted for days that the documents reported by Dan Rather on "60 Minutes" are authentic. But the statement could also help defuse a crisis that has torn at the network's credibility.

It is not clear whether the acknowledgement will include an apology for a story now believed to be based on forged documents, although that is under consideration, sources familiar with the matter said. The sources said they could not be identified because the network is making no official statement.

CBS has stood by the story, even as numerous document experts have called the memos forgeries and a former secretary in Bush's Guard unit told reporters, including Rather, that the memos were fake, although she said they reflected the feelings of Bush's former squadron commander in the Texas Air National Guard.

The statement was still being hammered out last night after Rather went to Texas to tape an interview with Bill Burkett, the retired Guard official widely believed to have helped provide "60 Minutes" with the memos. Burkett, who has urged Democratic activists to wage "war" against Republican "dirty tricks," would not comment in an e-mail to The Washington Post on whether he had been CBS's confidential source.

CBS News President Andrew Heyward, while declining to comment on what interviews the network may be conducting, said yesterday: "We've said we are trying very hard to get to the bottom of these questions."

Burkett, who retired from the Austin headquarters of the Guard in 1998, has said he once saw some of Bush's military records in a trash can. He also says he overheard a conversation among Guard officials about sanitizing the president's military records, which Guard officials strongly deny.

Burkett's motivation could be suspect because he said in a Web posting last month that he tried to contact John F. Kerry's presidential campaign with information for a "counteratack."

Over the weekend, Bush told the Manchester, N.H., Union Leader that "there are a lot of questions" about the CBS documents "and they need to be answered." The president added: "I think what needs to happen is people need to take a look at the documents, how they were created, and let the truth come out."

Asked about Bush's remarks, Heyward said: "I don't feel any more pressure than before. I agree with President Bush that the sooner we can resolve these questions the better."

213 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:20:38pm

As someone wrote earlier, at least the NYT didn't get Jayson Blair to investigate his own unethical "reporting". It's ridiculous that Dan Rather is pretending to investigate this!

214 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:21:42pm

#206 Lazy Tart

I know this is probably of little comfort but having raised three children, at age 8 all of mine bumped into walls, tripped over their own feet, etc so often that I worried if they broke a limb, I would be charged with child abuse from the black and blue marks they had ;)
All children of that age are clumsy, especially boys...so if it seems it has become worse...they stay that way for years. That is one symtom, I think you can not worry over.

You are in our thoughts and prayers.

215 SmithL  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:21:59pm

For the Record:


WE WERE DECEIVED

216 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:22:07pm

Wrong thread again. I'm tired.

217 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:22:45pm

Glwing,

Thank you so much for your concern. You would not believe the emails I have gotten from LGFers!

218 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:27:50pm

"In examining where the network had gone wrong, officials at CBS News turning their attention to Ms. Mapes, one of their most respected producers, who was riding particularly high this year after breaking news about the Abu Ghraib prison scandal for the network. "

How utterly disgusting.

219 Monster Kabasue  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:28:03pm

great my p0rn name is Keichiee Rockawalkin or Shampoo Rockawalkin, my wife's choices are Belladandy Rockawalking, or Urd Rockawalking. It's starting to sound like porn for old people :/

220 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:28:20pm

#208 Lazy Tart

Remember, we can bite peoples' knees!

I seriously used to be about a towering 5'3! I also was taller than my Mum abd my 2 Bubbes zt'l, and remember how I felt when one of our kids was taller than I am...wait til your son looks down at you! :)

All my kids are taller than I am, and at the rate they are growing, my 2 and 4 year old granddaughters will tower over me!


Andy B

{{{Andy B.}}} My tallest son is also an Andrew...

221 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:28:38pm

#217 Lazy Tart

My sister suffered from lazy eye and it affected her motor skills for some years. Eventually, they did surgery to correct the eye. Her muscles, especially her leg muscles seemed to correct almost overnight.
But she was still clumsy at 8 ;)

Keep us informed. I've thought about you and your family since I saw your post the other night.

222 SmithL  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:34:06pm

Speaking of Electoral maps:

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.ht ml

328:210

223 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:34:23pm

#139 zulubaby

Oh god, CounterPunch. They're horrid. Ick.

224 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:35:02pm

Ick ick ick ick ick. Ick.

225 gymnast  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:35:02pm

Dan Rather investigating his own scandal is going to be a bigger scandal than the scandal that he instigated to start with and that was/is no small scandal. CBS sure knows how to stay in the spotlight, or is more akin to "close to the flame"?

226 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:35:58pm

love seeing that RED Ohio!!!

227 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:38:44pm

cordy, Juan Cole is just as bad, if not worse, since he's a "professor". These people make me ill.

228 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:40:39pm

glwing (#226)

love seeing that RED Ohio!!!

California is a decidedly solid blue. Ick (to steal an expression from cordy).

229 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:43:39pm

zulu,

if Calif ever turned RED, I would think I'd died and gone to heaven ;) Too much to hope for, I guess.
The other map site has a final projected map, NY tied.
*groan* And we thought chad counting in FL was bad.

230 VFTokyo  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:43:44pm

#37 Sarah D.

LOL!

That makes me

Shadow Kitasato!

231 SmithL  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:44:32pm

It's all red, except for the lunatic fringe.

232 lazytart  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:45:40pm

Zulubaby,

You are supposed to be in bed, young lady.

When one applies beauty mask, then rinses, one must then get beauty sleep.

Dontcha' know?

Night!

233 Stinky  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:45:40pm

I think it's an important symbolic victory if Bush can pick up New Jersey and Oregon. A Northeast team, and a west cost team, would fly right in the face of those who insist on perpetuating a divided country myth (ie, those enlightened northeasterners and west coasters vs. those hayweed midwesterners and southerners).

234 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:45:56pm

I pass on Sarah D's.

I refused to be Moppet Tishoff or Zeke Fairmount ;0

235 addison  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:46:57pm

Off Topic:

Bush up to 70.2 on the Trade Sports thingamajig.

236 mr7  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:47:55pm

Goos morning Charles...want to start a thread?

Drudge reporting 12:45 am EST.

---

September 20, 2004
THE NEWS MEDIA
CBS News Concludes It Was Misled on National Guard Memos, Network Officials Say
By JIM RUTENBERG

After days of expressing confidence about the documents used in a "60 Minutes'' report that raised new questions about President Bush's National Guard service, CBS News officials have grave doubts about the authenticity of the material, network officials said last night.

The officials, who asked not to be identified, said CBS News would most likely make an announcement as early as today that it had been deceived about the documents' origins. CBS News has already begun intensive reporting on where they came from, and people at the network said it was now possible that officials would open an internal inquiry into how it moved forward with the report. Officials say they are now beginning to believe the report was too flawed to have gone on the air.

But they cautioned that CBS News could still pull back from an announcement. Officials met last night with Dan Rather, the anchor who presented the report, to go over the information it had collected about the documents one last time before making a final decision. Mr. Rather was not available for comment late last night.

The report relied in large part on four memorandums purported to be from the personal file of Mr. Bush's squadron commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, who died 20 years ago. The memos, dated from the early 1970's, said that Colonel Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat'' the record of the young Lieutenant Bush and that the officer had disobeyed a direct order to take a physical.

Mr. Rather and others at the network are said to still believe that the sentiment in the memos accurately reflected Mr. Killian's feelings but that the documents' authenticity was now in grave doubt.

The developments last night marked a dramatic turn for CBS News, which for a week stood steadfastly by its Sept. 8 report as various document experts asserted that the typeface of the memos could have been produced only by a modern-day word processor, not Vietnam War-era typewriters.

237 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:49:16pm

lazytart, LOL! I was just telling zorkie that I'm sure you'll show up at our pajama parties one night :-)

I really should be in bed. I'm going soon, you have my word! ;-)

238 glwing  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:50:02pm

Just wondering, does Charles ever sleep?

239 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:50:35pm
Goos morning Charles...

And which part of Europe are you in? :-)

240 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:51:15pm

zulubaby,

Oh I absolutely agree. I was even going to say something like that but I was having convulsions over thinking of some of the CP articles I've read.

But then, everyone should at least tell the truth and not hide facts. JC uses his position to give credibility to his claim that he is "informed", which gives him an extra obligation to be careful in his assertions. Of course, many of Counterpunch's writers are professors too...

241 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:51:43pm

#188 Smug Monkey

thats cho cho san [supposed to mean madam butterfly or sumfin] dunno got the cat back in the early 70's

242 zulubaby  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:54:41pm

cordy, instead of Juan Cole taking his responsibilities seriously, he uses his position to spread propaganda and lies. It infuriates me that such a vile human being is allowed to be an "educator". I wish I could do something about it.

243 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:55:45pm

Where is Manco Dollars? He was bragging how NY was a lock in for Kerry. Sure, its still likely, but the numbers are dropping steadily and not a strong supporter any longer.

BURN BABY.

244 Abu Maven  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:58:37pm

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but Charles has been featured in the Washington Post, and they even mentioned that he's a lifelong Democrat:

Were the bloggers politically motivated? Charles Johnson says he's a lifelong Democrat who plans to vote for Bush.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

245 kehenry1  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:58:46pm

Did somebody say frogs?

Froggy went a'courtin' he did ride, uh huh, uh huh
Froggy went a courtin' he did ride, uh huh, uh huh

Froggy went a courtin' he did ride, some guy named Schroeder by his side

Froggy went a courtin' he did ride, uh huh, uh huh

246 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 8:59:40pm

#197 cordy --

Interesting post -- definitely a danger.

However, Mitchell (and the UN) have neglected to consider a couple of factors, especially remittances. If governments like Mexico tax Mexicans' earnings in the US, it will cost them the $14billion they get annually in remittances. Almost all of Central & South America, and much of the Caribbean, get more money from remittances than practically any other industry or economic sector. China, Philippines, India and some other countries get a lot of remits, too. These countries could line officials' pockets with the tax dollars, but the families living off these remits might well revolt. Supporting this hideous proposal in the UN might lose more votes from such countries than it would garner from high-tax countries. Incidentally, the $100B taxes cited about equals the amount of (traceable) remits out of the US.

Illegal immigration runs more than triple the rate of legal immigration; in fact, two-thirds of "legal" immigration is actually "change of status" of illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are hard to trace. They aren't paying taxes in the US and likely wouldn't pay taxes bak home, either. They are working in the underground (largely cash) economy, and evade income taxes as eagerly and readily as they evade immigration laws. Collecting taxes from these people is an extremely dubious proposition. But they would cut traceable remits to prevent being traced for taxes.

This taxation proposal needs to die a rapid death. Another bloody minded soak-the-stupid-American scheme.

247 aeroblogger  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:03:34pm

OT

Hi all, here's my new blog, with my first PhotoShop post:

John Kerry, The Mandarin Candidate

248 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:05:04pm

al-nyt finally has the article: CBS News Concludes It Was Misled on National Guard Memos, Network Officials Say

fter days of expressing confidence about the documents used in a "60 Minutes'' report that raised new questions about President Bush's National Guard service, CBS News officials have grave doubts about the authenticity of the material, network officials said last night.

The officials, who asked not to be identified, said CBS News would most likely make an announcement as early as today that it had been deceived about the documents' origins. CBS News has already begun intensive reporting on where they came from, and people at the network said it was now possible that officials would open an internal inquiry into how it moved forward with the report. Officials say they are now beginning to believe the report was too flawed to have gone on the air.

But they cautioned that CBS News could still pull back from an announcement. Officials met last night with Dan Rather, the anchor who presented the report, to go over the information it had collected about the documents one last time before making a final decision. Mr. Rather was not available for comment late last night.

The report relied in large part on four memorandums purported to be from the personal file of Mr. Bush's squadron commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, who died 20 years ago. The memos, dated from the early 1970's, said that Colonel Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat'' the record of the young Lieutenant Bush and that the officer had disobeyed a direct order to take a physical.

Mr. Rather and others at the network are said to still believe that the sentiment in the memos accurately reflected Mr. Killian's feelings but that the documents' authenticity was now in grave doubt.

The developments last night marked a dramatic turn for CBS News, which for a week stood steadfastly by its Sept. 8 report as various document experts asserted that the typeface of the memos could have been produced only by a modern-day word processor, not Vietnam War-era typewriters.

The seemingly unflappable confidence of Mr. Rather and top news division officials in the documents allayed fears within the network and created doubt among some in the news media at large that those specialists were correct. CBS News officials had said they had reason to be certain that the documents indeed had come from the personal file of Colonel Killian.

Sandy Genelius, a network spokeswoman, said last week, "We are confident about the chain of custody; we're confident in how we secured the documents.''

But officials decided yesterday that they would most likely have to declare that they had been misled about the records' origin after Mr. Rather and a top network executive, Betsy West, met in Texas with a man who was said to have helped the news division obtain the memos, a former Guard officer named Bill Burkett...

Several people familiar with the situation said they were girding for a particularly tough week for Mr. Rather and the news division should the network announce its new doubts.

One person close to the situation said the critical question would be, "Where was everybody's judgment on that last day?''

see rest of article. BTW, Burkett is still online(AOL)

Charles rules!

249 aeroblogger  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:08:30pm

#248 NY Nana

"deceived", "misled" ... it looks like they're trying to portray themselves as the victims.

250 gymnast  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:10:24pm

It does indeed look like CBS is going to use Burkett as the "cut out". I predict that Max Cleland will be a part of the MSM story by tuesday or wednesday at latest.

251 cordy  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:10:24pm

#246 ibu guru

Good point. There was some talk in some articles about how non-"First world" economies could be hurt, though I don't remember that being mentioned.

But I'll bet the governments of countries such as Mexico could be bought off with promises of proceeds from schemes such as the Tobin tax, which is an open attempt at wealth redistribution from rich countries to less-rich/poor countries.

I'm for aid to poorer countries, but only with national control, not UN/EU/OECD/Whatever control. That the way the U.S. can decide whether a government is too corrupt to fund and that the aid will only go to dictators. The EU certainly doesn't have a good track record with funding Palestinian terrorism and then denying they are doing so (I had it pointed out to me a couple of days ago that the U.S. buys terror-promoting textbooks for Palestinian schools, so we're not perfect) and of course the UN is awful.

I'm just wondering when this sort of thing will happen. As if there isn't enough to think about.

252 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:16:01pm

#209 cordy --

The US is a lot stronger than Europe in many ways. But we are weaker than we were, than we could be or should be.

Per capita income is less than it was in 1980. Too much of our "standard of living" is financed by debt that is growing rather than being paid off, we have long-term structural unemployment due to rising births throughout the 1980's & '90's and high levels of immigration, unfunded liabilities such as Social Security/Medicare... I could rant on and on...

I'd still rather find a better way to tick off the perfidious fwoggies than trying to encourage its people & companies to relocate here. Boycott is effective. I'm sure we can find more -- and more effective -- ways.

253 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:18:02pm

#249 aeroblogger

Exactly. If they had been honest in the first place, and did all the proper vetting, then blathergate never would have happened. In their LLL zeal, they jumped at the bait. At the very least, blather should fall on his sword.

The weasels most certainly are setting it up, and still hoping that the Big Lie will go away..leave it to the paper of Jayson Blair to nuance the damned thing into the ground.

For Charles and all the bloggers who so valiantly not only broke the code, but kept at it til they had to take notice, mazel tov, and thank you for a job well done!

This will go down in history as the straw that broke the MSM's back! Bloggers and the internet now are the real news sources..at least the good ones like LGF are!

254 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:18:53pm
255 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:25:03pm

From the NYT story this am:

These people indicated that Mr. Burkett had previously led the producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, to have the utmost confidence in the material.
It was unclear last night if Mr. Burkett had told Mr. Rather that he had been misled about the documents' provenance or that he had been the one who did the misleading.
[..]a producer had told [document examiner Emily J. Will] that the source of the documents said they had been obtained anonymously and through the mail.
[...]In examining where the network had gone wrong, officials at CBS News turning their attention to Ms. Mapes, one of their most respected producers

I dunno, Dan. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, ya know? You sure you wanna dump her like that? I mean that's cold, man. Cold.

256 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:33:11pm

#254 ploome hineni

Says Donna Brazile, who was Al Gore's campaign manager, "Sen. Kerry is like Seabiscuit: He runs better from behind."

She's confused. Kerry just looks like Seabiscuit.

257 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:36:43pm

#251 cordy --

Aid to poorer countries has not worked. "If the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result..."

We bailed out Mexico in the mid-1980's and again in the mid-1990's. They get $14B/yr in remittances (2nd largest source of income after oil), and all they do is breed more mouths they cannot feed, house, educate, etc. They not only assist (Grupo Beta) illegal aliens get into this country, but also lobby for their "rights" to get drivers licenses, et al. They bring Mexicans across the US border in ambulances to get free medical care so they won't use Mexican resources or the Mexican "medicaid"-type program.

No, our "aid" has not worked, and it is time to abandon that position.

On the other hand, microloans -- especially those to women -- to start biz enterprises has helped, and it is self-perpetuation as their biz succeeds and the loans are repaid/reloaned/repaid... Ready access to birth control services likewise helps cut poverty, hunger, etc.

258 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:37:42pm

ibu guru

we have long-term structural unemployment due to rising births throughout the 1980's & '90's

I'm not an economist. What's "structural unemployment?" And what does it have to do with birth rates? Thanks.

259 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:39:32pm

#254 Ploome Hineni

In my never-ending quest for knowledge, I just had to look at LGF one more time before closing down..and I must ask this momentous, earth-shattering question:

WTF has the WSJ OpinionJournal got against the late, great Seabiscuit that would make them insult his tush???


#255 A Noble Vision

ROFLMAO!!! (No, it has nothing to do with Seabiscuit...)

G'nite, all!

260 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:42:27pm

Hey, A Noble Vision...poor dead Seabiscuit looks much better now than Hanoi john ever looked in his misbegotten life!

Harrrumph.

261 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:44:09pm

G'nite, mates. My brain is fried, but need it clear & rested in 4 hrs. And there was another thread back there I hadn't gotten to yet...

Great going, Charles! Kept up the pressure until blather and mopes had to come clean. Next in line for shootdowns (or shutdowns) are the perpetrators, then the Perpetual Pathological Prevaricator himself! Hee-haw!

262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:45:31pm

Wait, I thought they were saying Kerry's looks like Seabiscuit's behind.

263 a noble vision  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:50:02pm

G'nite, NY Nana

264 nla  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 9:59:37pm

CBS should be crucified for using "spurious" documents on National Guard. They should have seen through it. The fault is all theirs.

USA should be crucified for using "spurious" documents on yellow cake uranium. They should have seen through it. The fault is all theirs.

Seems that due too much partisanship, nobody seems to comprehend the parallelism.

...what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

265 ibu guru  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 10:33:58pm

#258 a noble vision --

Unemployment can have two basic causes: temporary business cycle downturns, which is usually short-term, or structural, which is always long term.

Structural refers to fundamental "structure" of the economy. Structural unemployment has two causes, which can come about simultaneously, as is the case now. Births count (although many economists goof up this analysis), not when they are born, but when they enter the workforce. Anytime you have a population bulge flowing into the laborforce, you get structural unemployment.

Witness the Boomers entering the workforce during the 1970's. We had the biggest post-war recession in 1969, then a decade of ever-accelerating inflation accompanied by a sidewinder stock market until the double-dip recession of 1980-82 -- an era of 'stag-flation,' Boomers returning to grad school for lack of jobs, etc.

The 2nd structural problem is a change in the fundamentals of the economy -- rapid change in "progress" and productivity. Witness the Industrial Revolution, and since the 1970's, the knowledge-based economy or post-industrial revolution. Witness the rapid growht in productivity levels of the late 1990's through 2003. This leads to the need for far fewer workers, and many of them a different type/skill-set of worker.

Post-1980 recession, the Boomers finally got jobs & made babies, instead of starting families in the 1970's as expected (they couldn't afford kids then!). Plus immigration accelerated, and they had lots of kids, too. Now we have this massive bulge in population entering the laborforce. But we've had a huge increase in productivity in the 1990's since we had fewer "native-born" in the 1970's -- the years of the Baby Bust. Worse, with booming populations worldwide, we have an invasion of immigrants, mostly illegal, who can't find jobs in their own super-saturated workforces.

So we have a gross and growing over-supply of prospective workers at a time when we need ever-fewer. Structural unemployment.

Boomers won't start retiring until next decade, and most will likely delay retirement (can't afford it, improved health & activity levels), so retiring existing workers does not solve this problem, and creates other problems that are worse. Besides, the # of laborforce entrants exceeds # Boomers to be retired.

This lasts until the over-supply is eliminated. Wars are good at that (study econ history). A baby bust (either consciously choose to stop making babies, or let Mother Nature eliminate them for you through infertility, starvation, disease, etc.) is critical to eventually working out the imbalance. The Depression of the 1930's and World War 2 did that last time, setting the stage for the lengthy boom phase of the late 1940's to late-60's.

There's more, but I'm nodding out over the keyboard here. I'm working on accumlating unemployment stats worldwide, and so far estimate worldwide unemployment exceeds a billion (since half the world's 6.5+ billion population is under 18, this constitutes about a third of all adults). To get an idea, China's unemployment exceeds 200 million.

Any population growth rate above 0.5 is economically disastrous, and US births + immigration runs close to 4% -- among the world's highest. Every Muslim or Catholic (except Italy) country is running at "econ disaster" rates. Every high-immigration country likewise (which puts Italy back into the danger zone).

These are dangerous times. Population bulges clogging the workforce have always led to war, plagues, and assorted disasters.

266 toonman  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 10:36:15pm

#264 nla

CBS should be crucified for using "spurious" documents on National Guard...

USA should be crucified for using "spurious" documents on yellow cake uranium...

You forget the distinction between the two.

CBS used obviously "spurious" .docs.

We haven't seen the ones about the uranium yet. Besides, it shouldn't be too hard to convincingly forge documents from (at most) a few years ago, even for the French.

267 Anne Elk (not AN elk)  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 11:40:59pm

Does anyone remember when CNN finally admitted that they covered up news from Iraq in order to guarantee their access to news sources? Did anything happen to CNN as a result of this?

Does anyone remember the phony gas-tank explosions staged by NBC? Did anything happen to NBC as a result of this?

Will anyone remember Dan Rather's fraud?

268 ördög Johnson  Sun, Sep 19, 2004 11:54:36pm

OT - Microwave gun to be used by US troops on Iraq rioters

Using technology similar to that found in a conventional microwave oven, the beam rapidly heats water molecules in the skin to cause intolerable pain and a burning sensation. The invisible beam penetrates the skin to a depth of less than a millimetre. As soon as the target moves out of the beam's path, the pain disappears.

"Nuk'em" is the best strategy after all!

The armoured vehicles [with MW guns] will be named Sheriffs once they have been modified to carry the microwave weapons, known as the Active Denial System (ADS). Col Hall said that US army and US marine corps units should receive four to six ADS equipped Sheriffs by September 2005.

In another development, the Sheriffs will be fitted with Gunslinger, a rapid-fire gun currently under development that will detect enemy snipers and automatically fire back at them.

Instant karma! I like it!

269 a noble vision  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 12:18:02am

ibu guru

Thanks for that extensive explanation. Interesting.

270 Spiritualized  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 12:18:58am

Extremist parties exploit German anxiety

Germany's most overtly neo-Nazi party secured a footing in a regional parliament yesterday for the first time in more than a generation.

(...)

The neo-Nazis of the National Democratic party of Germany (NPD), a party the government tried and failed to have banned last year because of its extremist views, took a projected 9% in Saxony and 12 seats in the state parliament in Dresden, one short of Mr Schröder's party.

In Brandenburg another far-right party, the German People's Union (DVU), slightly increased its share of the vote to about 6%, taking six seats.

It is the first time in Germany that a far-right party has increased its vote in two consecutive elections.

271 larado  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:29:57am

What is our position on the Germans.I support Israel.
I did not know what a Jew was until I was twenty seven.We were just Aussie boys.

272 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:40:41am

OT

Someone has probably posted this but I'll do it again

CBS Gives it up, finally

Now all the LLL holdouts can STFU!!

And one more thing: If Bush was a Nazi, Bill Burnett would have been killed a long time ago.

273 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:43:21am

Burkett, whatever...the coffee isn't done yet.

274 larado  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:44:34am

Why dont we start barracking for the French consevatives,and the German ones.

275 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:45:44am

A quote fro the end of the artile

Several people familiar with the situation said they were girding for a particularly tough week for Mr. Rather and the news division should the network announce its new doubts.

One person close to the situation said the critical question would be, "Where was everybody's judgment on that last day?''

276 larado  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:52:37am

The last day, what about the first day and all the intervening days?
Ethics on a time watch,I dont think so.

277 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:57:54am

271 Larado

What is our position on the Germans.

Well, sitting in CA, its several thousand miles East of here. Just kidding.

You'll find all sorts of opinions here. Read up, ask questions and make your own position. Check the archives for further info here, or just try surfing to find more news.

Hope that helps.

278 cartan  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 1:59:29am

So it's been about Oil for Cheese all along?

279 Norwegian kafir  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:12:15am
280 peace be upon me  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:16:02am

OT
6 out of 10 Paki beneficiaries of US aid, supports suicide murder. And 65% of Pakis admire Osama bin Laden. If 10% of Americans knew the above, they would blow a gasket:

[Link: www.webindia123.com...]

281 billib  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:32:36am

#271 Larado

Will someone please inform Larado of this week's meeting time and place for the meeting where we will be giving everyone the proper stance for all of the issues to be discussed on this blog.

He seems to be out of touch with where he is supposed to be on Germany. He has Israel down OK but that one is old and he should by now.

If he should say anything out of line with the "group think" please excuse him until we get his thought process straightened out.

If anyone else needs brushing up on what they are to say and what the stand is on the issues please feel free to attend the same meeting with poor Larado.

282 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:36:21am

267 Anne

Cnn made the statement, iirc, right before the invasion when they got kicked out of iraq. It was summarily dropped with only few subsequent references.
---

I'm thinking the topic's title should properly be, Watch...Fwrench perfidy, as it should be with anti-semitism along with everything else which gushes forth from these asshats. The story should be turning heads of even nay-sayers regarding saddams weapons inventories while asking one question, 'where'd they go fickheads?'

The euro's have literally screwed the camel. Like their ME pals they've gone into the nose-picking and finger-pointing business and have painted themselves into a corner economically and socially.

They're stuck... kidding aside, it may become a question of who wants to clean-up after the bastards and see if there's anything left to salvage? A lose-lose proposition with little left of redeeming value...save the museums.

283 foreign devil  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:49:04am

"Ex-General Set to Win Landslide Victory in Indonesia Election: Poll"

"Jakarta — A former general who has pledged to fight terror and fix the economy was headed for landslide win over incumbent President Megawati Sukarnoputri in Indonesia's landmark elections Monday, according a nationwide sampling of votes by an independent pollster..."
[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

This might be a welcome change and good news in the war against Islamic terror if he wins.

284 FabioC.  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 2:56:55am

In Europe there are problems, sometimes even serious, related to the immigration, especially of muslims.

But only a few of the mainstream political forces acknowledge the problem and are willing to face it.

And every time there is a proposal to cut immigration, the LLLs scream "Racism!".

So, many common folks fall prey of extremist right-wing movements, because they are seen as the only one proposing a solution. Many people seem willing to do anything, even the wrong things, instead of nothing.

285 Sarah D.  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:17:22am

Kofi's Law.

Last we checked, U.N. chief Kofi Annan was promising to help the U.S. rebuild Iraq. But pressed by a BBC interviewer last week, the Secretary-General stated flat out that the liberation of Iraq was "illegal" and a violation of the U.N. Charter. He had already opined that "there should have been a second resolution" authorizing the invasion, and that "I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time."

The US out of the UN!

286 Dublin vs Kerry  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:18:26am

#281 billib

Thanks for that unique original post.

Jesus, your crummy sarcasm is infectious.

287 Sarah D.  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:19:42am

The Democrats are getting worried!

A Sequel To a Cemocratic Horrorshow

Says one Democratic consultant: "I would have called you crazy if in 1989 you would have told me that a decade and a half later this party was going to nominate Dukakis's lieutenant governor--another aloof Massachusetts liberal who would overconfidently feel he would mop the floor with this clueless guy named Bush. But I fear I've seen this movie, and it's 'Groundhog Day.' "

LOL!

288 Sarah D.  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:22:17am

That would be Democratic! PIMF, and the Mr. Pibb hasn't kicked in yet ;-)

289 CastorOil  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:34:34am

#284 - you're absolutely right. I think many people in Europe have become frustrated by their failed socialist-style economy, growing unemployment, and immigration from poorer countries, that when faced with political choices between center-left, left, far left and growing Islamic fundamentalism, they choose to go with the right extremists, who promise to do something about immigration, if not the economy. I seem to remember that in the last election the French had to choose between "crooks and fascits" and they chose the crooks. Hopefully as more moderates swell the ranks of the right wingers, it may be possible that the extremists would be weakened and a more solid conservative base will emerge.

As for the CBS story, all Dan has to do is to cry on TV "I've sinned!" It worked for others :)

290 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:35:45am

OT:

Allah has the latest on OJ, er I mean CBS.

[Link: www.allahpundit.com...]

291 billib  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:38:18am

#286 Dublin Kerry

Is this better? Who's covering up what? Isn't McCain the guy he's been kissing (literally) on the campaign trail.

McCain was asked about a report in Sunday's New York Times that U.S. commanders were planning a drive in November or December to retake areas where insurgents have won control. Such a timetable would place the operations after the Nov. 2 election for the White House.

McCain said Bush was not being "as straight as we would want him to be" about the situation. "The longer we delay with these sanctuaries, the more difficult the challenge is going to be and the more casualties we will incur and the Iraqi people will suffer because they will be able to operate out of these sanctuaries obviously now with somewhat of impunity," McCain said.

292 gulgnu  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:39:50am

"CBS Gives it up, finally

Now all the LLL holdouts can STFU!!"

Nope - checked the DU - they are now moving en masse to the "0MG!!! R0V3 D1D 1T!!111!!!1111" school of "thought"...

293 Luigi  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 3:52:28am

Iraqi PM: 'Terrorists pouring in'

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has warned that "terrorists" are flooding into his country from across the Muslim world.


They have six more weeks until our election. Then the gloves come off again and the ground war re-commences. I only hope we are using this time for effective intelligence gathering and planning.

294 Bernadette  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:07:27am

Sarah D:

Groundhog Day is my favorite movie.

Groundhog Day is my favorite move.

Did I just say that?

ha ha

But they are right. This campaign does seem more and more like a rerun. Just meaner.

295 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:08:11am

OT - have not read all the threads so this may have already been posted.

The Ottawa Citizen clearly defends itself to use the "word terrorism to describe certain groups and acts".

DEFINING TERRORISM

The chief complaint is that this newspaper freely uses the word "terrorist" to describe certain groups and acts. The CBC and some wire services prefer terms such as "activist," "militant" or "gunmen." These media organizations argue that "terrorist" is a subjective term, laden with too much emotion, and that the imperative to be impartial prohibits journalists from using it.

We reject the argument. Terrorism is a technical term. It describes a modus operandi, a tactic. We side with security professionals who define terrorism as the deliberate targeting of civilians in pursuit of a political goal. Those who bombed the nightclub in Bali were terrorists. Suicide bombers who strap explosives to their bodies and blow up people eating in a pizza parlour are terrorists. The men and women who took a school full of hostages in Beslan, Russia, and shot some of the children in the back as they tried to flee to safety were terrorists. We as journalists do not violate our impartiality by describing them as such.

Send the editors your opinion using the "Sound Off" link provided.

296 LanceKates  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:12:22am

OT:

Wait...They're NOT real???

CBS might have been deceived?

297 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:18:05am
298 Luigi  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:19:46am

#296 LanceKates

CBS might have been deceived?


Personally, I think they knew just what they were doing. The only mistake they made is they didn't realize the world has changed and they can no longer tell us what to think.

I think they've been doing this since Watetgate.

299 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:20:54am
300 LanceKates  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:21:40am

#298

I'm sorry, I forgot to add [/sarcasm]

I'm not sure that they're evil liberals... I just think that during their college years they were tainted by liberal thought. Those that taught these 'reporters' are the ones who did the great evil.

The only thing that kept me sane in college was the idea that "hey... this prof is wrong."

301 Beagle  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:28:42am

Sunni 'clerics' slain Military leaders killed would be accurate.

It was not immediately known who was behind the gunning-down of two Sunni clerics Sunday night and Monday in Baghdad. The two clerics belonged to the Association of Muslim Scholars, a grouping of conservative clerics that opposes the U.S. presence in Iraq and has emerged as a powerful representative of Iraq's Sunni minority.

Gunmen shot and killed Sheik Mohammed Jadoa al-Janabi as he entered a mosque in Baghdad's predominantly Shiite al-Baya neighborhood to perform noon prayers Monday, the association said.

The previous night, gunmen attacked the car of Sheik Hazem al-Zeidi as he left a mosque in another largely Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad, Sadr City. Al-Zeidi was killed and two of his bodyguards were taken hostage for several hours before being released Monday, said Sheik Abdul-Sattar Abdul-Jabbar, a senior member of the association.


AP sucks. They should give up on analysis completely. By tossing in the same kernels of stupidity over and over they only demonstrate their obvious bias.

302 Luigi  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:30:24am

298 Luigi

About CBS telling us what to think for the last 40 years..

Being of Bush and Kerry's generation, I believe the Vietnam War would have had a different outcome if the internet and blogs were operating then as they are now. We had no other sources of information beyond the mainstream media. 'Underground' alternate sources were under the control of the left -- university campuses, Hollywood and the mainline churches. There was no Fox News.

Young people of conscience who weighed all the information presented to them usually came out against the war. Older people often came out for it because they had an historical perspective.

Where would the population stand today if we got all our news from Dan Rather?

303 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:32:14am

OT:

How to Steal An Election

This was painful but necessary to read.

304 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:32:46am
305 LanceKates  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:33:41am

OT about Kerry

So he mentions that President Bush has a plan to send in a bunch more troops after the election.

Doesn't that information help the enemy plan to fight us?

Imagine if during WWII someone mentioned that we were going to send a bunch of troops to Normandy. Wouldn't that be bad for the invasion?

Isn't that sedition on the Part of Kerry?

Since we're in war and he committed sedition and treason, what can happen?

What's the punishment for treason and sedition during a time of war?

306 Furious J  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:34:59am

#287 Sarah D - John Kerry became the nominee basically because the donks were desperate to keep Howard Dean from being the nominee and didn't really think things through. They inspected Kerry's background somewhat less seriously than Dan Rather vetted the Bush forgeries.

But, it's not like the donks had much to choose from last spring: Kerry, Edwards, Shparton, Moseley-Braun, Dean, Kucinich, Gephardt ... i.e. a trustafarian, an ambulance-chaser, a couple of race pimps, an aging hippie, a deranged Bush-hater, and a union tool. That's a pretty accurate cross-section of the modern democratic party.

307 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:37:05am

Hanging or firing squad, of course hanoi john the traitor has already been hung out to dry.

308 LanceKates  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:39:23am

#307 'Nam Grunt

Speaking of which, what's the statute of limitations on the 'war crimes' he said he took a part in?

I'd love to see him wiggle in the stand. Either he holds to his (dishonest/exaggerated) story about war crimes in 'Nam, or he admits that he wasn't telling the truth and has to face punishment for lying to the senate committee and for bolstering the courage of the enemy.

309 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:39:49am
310 nimslight  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:45:04am

Kerry should be turned over to the world court to be hanged, for the was crimes he said he did.

311 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:46:01am

#308 Lance,

I don't know for sure, but I would think after 30 years that it's a moot point.

Morning A.I,

Yeah I think we safely stick a fork into hanoi john at this point, IMHO.

312 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:49:11am

Wait a dam minute...

Allawi has warned that "terrorists" are flooding into his country from across the Muslim world.

he can't say that...the bigot!! /L³ off

The words terrorists and Muslim in the same sentence and coming from the head of an Islamic state? Let'er rip Allawi, its time pretenses are dropped and illusions dismantled, especially form someone in a position of power. Wooo-weee there's going to be some howling. Tell France and Germany, Iraq's going claim their debts as odious. Then lets talk about Iran.

I like this guy. At least for the present.

313 nimslight  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:49:21am

typo war crimes, rats

314 LanceKates  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:51:08am

#311

The point is that Kerry would be proven to ALL as a fraud. And he'd be in prision, where true criminals belong.

315 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:54:56am

#314 Lance,

From your lips to G*d's ears, my friend.

316 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 4:55:48am
317 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 5:01:57am

#16, A.I.,

I believe that is an Israeli law, and I honestly don't know if we have the same thing here in America, someone versed in world law would have to answer that question.

318 ibu guru  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 5:11:39am

#269 a noble vision --

You're welcome.

This shows why the Conventional Wisdom that high birth rates are good for economies is dead wrong. Most economists correlate births with econ phases simultaneously. But people have more babies when they "feel rich." Cause-effect gets muddled in such an analysis.

By lagging the birth time frame about 20 years, hitting the 'laborforce entry' period, the correlation between births & economy show high birth rates are disastrous for economic growth.

When those babies try to go to work, all H breaks loose.

Long declines in birth rates/population growth rates lead to full employment, high productivity growth, high rates of creativity/inventiveness, increased prosperity, reduced poverty levels. Unfortunately, such prosperity leads to increased birth rates again. Thus the Kondratieff cycle perpetuates itself.

The Conventional Wisdom that declining birth rates and an "aging" population are "bad-bad-bad" is dead wrong. Increasing immigration is the worst possible reaction, because it fuels labor gluts, reduces wages, increases poverty levels -- so they can't "fund" retirement of workers they force out of the workforce, and workers can't save enough to fund their own retirements.

The "Conventional Wisdom" is too often mass stupidity.

319 ibu guru  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 5:40:38am

#284 FabioC --
Assuming you are in Europe, the same problem is going on in US & Canada. Pro-immigration lobby, especially the pro-illegal immig lobby, yells "racism" to prevent any rational analysis of the situation. Inject emotion and rationality flies out the window.

Immigration is bad all the way around. Patronization and paternalism ("pity these poor people -- the only way they'll get freedom is to move to the US" buffalo chips) endangers freedom for us and prevents its spread.

Freedom is the result of people taking responsibility for their lives and fighting for it. It can only result from a "bottom-up" -- never a "top-down" -- movement. Cubans in Cuba will decide if and when they want change, just as they brought Castro into power back in 1959. Cubans coming to the US abdicate their responsibility, and their opportunity to effect change in their own country.

Immigration-law violators should be universally stopped & forced to depart or be deported. Coming illegally, the receiving country gets only scofflaws, criminals, and leeches. Consequences of illegal immigration are disastrous, for several generations (at least 3).

People who cannot debate rationally, who have no facts to back up their arguments, and people who have hidden agendas, foil debate with emotion. Those who bandy spurious charges of "racism" to shut down rational discussion & action are filled with hatred & resentment, and are often themselves racists.

e.g. Mexicans who claim the US "needs" "hard-working" Mexicans to "do jobs Americans won't do" insinuate (some state) that Americans are lazy welfare-leeching incompetents. It amounts to "Mexicans are better than Americans," which is racist. It is also false, or "hard-working" Mexicans would have better developed & run their own country instead of needing bailouts from the US every decade.

320 Beagle  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 5:52:32am

Speaking of French perfidy,

John Kerry is 20 minutes into a 'major policy address' and has not outlined one policy. Kerry lied to get media coverage for his old talking points. I feel used.

321 ibu guru  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 6:04:01am

#303 -- free speech...

Dornan lost the election due to voter fraud. I was a pollworker in Orange County that election. Hispanic organizations, including Hermandad and La Raza, ran "voter registration drives" that registered non-citizens, including illegal aliens. The election should have been overturned, but wasn't. Seems the Board of Election "proved" about 900 illegal aliens voted, but couldn't "prove" enough in time to overturn. As more time has passed, more votes have been proven to be fraud, but Sanchez is still in offie.

Press reports at that time showed at least 5000 Haitians in Dade County voted for Gore in 2000. Most were here illegally to boot. The Democratic Party in California sent thousands of letters to non-citizen (mostly illegal aliens, not legal permanent residents) Hispanics which included a punch-out "voter card" to "help them vote." (LATimes actually covered that one!)

Who stole the 2000 election? The Dhims tried and -- most fortunately -- failed. The UN "election observers" are unlikely to cure this disease.

322 ibu guru  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 6:09:04am

#320 beagle --
did anyone else pick up on his saying "Samaria" instead of "Samarrah" in discussing our "failures" in Iraq?

323 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Sep 20, 2004 6:26:52am

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Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

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 Frank says:

Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?